>> fly from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Google Club next nineteen Tio by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back. Everyone live here in San Francisco, California is the cubes coverage of Google Cloud Next twenty nineteen star Third day of three days of wall to wall coverage. John for a maiko stupid demon devil on things out around the floor. Getting stories, getting scoops. Of course, we're here with Sadeer has Bay. Who's the director of product management? Google Cloud. So great to see you again. Go on Back on last year, I'LL see Big Query was a big product that we love. We thought the fifty many times about database with geek out on the databases. But it's not just about the databases. We talked about this yesterday, all morning on our kickoff. There is going to be database explosion everywhere. Okay, it's not. There's no one database anymore. It's a lot of databases, so that means data in whatever database format document relational, Unstructured. What you want to call it is gonna be coming into analytical tools. Yes, this's really important. It's also complex. Yeah, these be made easier. You guys have made their seers announcements Let's get to the hard news. What's the big news from your group around Big Queria Mail Auto ml Some of the news share >> the news. Perfect, I think not. Just databases are growing, but also applications. There's an explosion off different applications. Every organization is using hundreds of them, right from sales force to work today. So many of them, and so having a centralized place where you can bring all the data together, analyze it and make decisions. It's critical. So in that realm to break the data silos, we have announced a few important things that they went. One is clouded effusion, making it easy for customers to bring in data from different sources on Prum Ices in Cloud so that you can go out and as you bring the data and transform and visually just go out and move the data into Big query for for analysis, the whole idea is the board and have Dragon drop called free environment for customers to easily bring daytime. So we have, like, you know, a lot of customers, just bringing in all the data from their compromise. The system's oracle, my sequel whatever and then moving that into into big Query as they analyze. So that's one big thing. Super excited about it. A lot of attraction, lot of good feedback from our customers that they went. The second thing is Big Query, which is our Cloud Skill Data warehouse. We have customers from few terabytes to hundreds of terabytes with it. Way also have an inline experience for customers, like a data analyst who want to analyze data, Let's say from sales force work, they are from some other tools like that if you want to do that. Three. I have made hundred less connectors to all these different sense applications available to our partners. Like five Grand Super Metrics in Macquarie five four Barrel Box out of the box for two five clicks, >> you'LL be able to cloud but not above, but I guess that's afraid. But it's important. Connectors. Integration points are critical table stakes. Now you guys are making that a table stakes, not an ad on service the paid. You >> just basically go in and do five clicks. You can get the data, and you can use one of the partners connectors for making all the decisions. And also that's there. and we also announced Migration Service to migrate from candidate that shift those things. So just making it easy to get data into recipe so that you can unlock the value of the data is the first thing >> this has become the big story here. From the Cube standpoint on DH student, I've been talking about day all week. Data migration has been a pain in the butt, and it's critical linchpin that some say it could be the tell sign of how well Google Cloud will do in the Enterprise because it's not an easy solution. It's not just, oh, just move stuff over And the prizes have unique requirements. There's all kinds of governance, all kinds of weird deal things going on. So how are you guys making it easy? I guess that's the question. How you gonna make migrating in good for the enterprise? >> I think the one thing I'll tell you just before I had a customer tell me one pain. You have the best highways, but you're on grams to the highway. Is that a challenge? Can you pick that on? I'm like here are afraid. Analogy. Yeah, it's great. And so last year or so we have been focused on making the migration really easy for customers. We know a lot of customers want to move to cloud. And as they moved to cloud, we want to make sure that it's easy drag, drop, click and go for migration. So we're making that >> holding the on ramps basically get to get the data in the big challenge. What's the big learnings? What's the big accomplishment? >> I think the biggest thing has Bean in past. People have to write a lot ofthe court to go ahead and do these kind of activities. Now it is becoming Click and go, make it really cold free environment for customers. Make it highly reliable. And so that's one area. But that's just the first part of the process, right? What customers want is not just to get data into cloud into the query. They want to go out and get a lot of value out off it. And within that context, what we have done is way made some announcements and, uh, in the in that area. One big thing is the B I engine, because he'd be a engine. It's basically an acceleration on top of the query you get, like subsequently, agency response times for interactive dash boarding, interactive now reporting. So that's their butt in with that. What we're also announced is connected sheets, so connected sheets is basically going to give you spreadsheet experience on top ofthe big credit data sets. You can analyze two hundred ten billion rose off data and macquarie directly with drag drop weakened upriver tables again. Do visualizations customers love spreadsheets in general? >> Yeah, City area. I'm glad you brought it out. We run a lot of our business on sheep's way of so many of the pieces there and write if those the highways, we're using our data. You know what's the first step out of the starts? What are some of the big use cases that you see with that? >> So I think Andy, she is a good example of so air. Isha has a lot of their users operational users. You needed to have access to data on DH, so they basically first challenge was they really have ah subsequently agency so that they can actually do interact with access to the data and also be an engine is helping with that. They used their story on top. Off half now Big Quit it, Gordon. Make it accessible. Be engine will vote with all the other partner tooling too. But on the other side, they also needed to have spread sheet like really complex analysis of the business that they can improve operation. Last year we announced they have saved almost five to ten percent on operational costs, and in the airline, that's pretty massive. So basically they were able to go out and use our connective sheets experience. They have bean early Alfa customer to go out and use it to go in and analyse the business, optimize it and also so that's what customers are able to do with connected sheets. Take massive amounts of data off the business and analyze it and make better. How >> do we use that? So, for a cost, pretend way want to be a customer? We have so many tweets and data points from our media. I think fifty million people are in our kind of Twitter network that we've thought indexed over the years I tried to download on the C S V. It's horrible. So we use sheets, but also this They've had limitations on the han that client. So do we just go to Big Query? How would we work >> that you can use data fusion with you? Clicks move later into Big Query wants you now have it in big query in sheets. You will have an option from data connectors Macquarie. And once you go there, if you're in extended al far, you should get infection. Alfa. And then when you click on that, it will allow you to pick any table in bickering. And once you link the sheets to be query table, it's literally the spreadsheet is a >> run in >> front and got through the whole big query. So when you're doing a favour tables when you're saying Hey, aggregate, by this and all, it actually is internally calling big credit to do those activities. So you remove the barrier off doing something in the in the presentation layer and move that to the engine that actually can do the lot skill. >> Is this shipping? Now you mention it. Extended beta. What's the product? >> It's an extended out far for connected sheets. Okay, so it's like we're working with few customers early on board and >> make sure guys doing lighthouse accounts classic classic Early. >> If customers are already G sweet customer, we would love to get get >> more criteria on the connected sheets of Alfa sending bait after Now What's what's the criteria? >> I think nothing. If customers are ready to go ahead and give us feedback, that's what we care of. Okay, so you want to start with, like, twenty twenty five customers and then expanded over this year and expand it, >> maybe making available to people watching. Let us let us know what the hell what do they go? >> Throw it to me and then I can go with that. Folks, >> sit here. One of the other announcements saw this week I'm curious. How it connects into your pieces is a lot of the open source databases and Google offering those service maybe even expand as because we know, as John said in the open there, the proliferation of databases is only gonna increase. >> I think open source way announced lot of partnerships on the databases. Customers need different types of operational databases on. This is a great, great opportunity for us to partner with some of our partners and providing that, and it's not just data basis. We also announced announced Partnership with Confident. I've been working with the confident team for last one place here, working on the relationship, making sure our customers haven't. I believe customers should always have choice. And we have our native service with Cloud pops up. A lot of customers liked after they're familiar with CAFTA. So with our relationship with Khan fluent and what we announced now, customers will get native experience with CAFTA on Jessie P. I'm looking forward to that, making sure our customers are happy and especially in the streaming analytic space where you can get real time streams of data you want to be, Oh, directly analytics on top of it. That is a really high value add for us, So that's great. And so so that's the That's what I'm looking forward to his customers being able to go out and use all of these open source databases as well as messaging systems to go ahead and and do newer scenarios for with us. >> Okay, so you got big Big query. ML was announced in G. A big query also has auto support Auto ml tables. What does that mean? What's going what's going on today? >> So we announced aquarium L at Kew Blast next invader. So we're going Ta be that because PML is basically a sequel interface to creating machine learning models at scale. So if you have all your data and query, you can write two lines ofthe sequel and go ahead and create a model tow with, Let's say, clustering. We announced plastering. Now we announced Matrix factory ization. One great example I will give you is booking dot com booking dot com, one of the largest travel portals in the in the world. They have a challenge where all the hotel rooms have different kinds off criteria which says they have a TV. I have a ll the different things available and their problem was data quality. There was a lot of challenges with the quality of data they were getting. They were able to use clustering algorithm in sequel in Macquarie so that they could say, Hey, what are the anomalies in this data? Sets and identify their hotel rooms. That would say I'm a satellite TV, but no TV available. So those claims direct Lansing stuff. They were easily able to do with a data analyst sequel experience so that's that. >> That's a great example of automation. Yeah, humans would have to come in, clean the data that manually and or write scripts, >> so that's there. But on the other side, we also have, Ah, amazing technology in Auto Emma. So we had our primal table are normal vision off thermal available for customers to use on different technologies. But we realized a lot of problems in enterprise. Customers are structured data problems, So I have attained equerry. I want to be able to go in and use the same technology like neural networks. It will create models on top of that data. So with auto Emel tables, what we're enabling is customers can literally go in auto Emel Table Portal say, Here is a big query table. I want to be able to go out and create a model on. Here is the column that I want to predict from. Based on that data, and just three click a button will create an automated the best model possible. You'LL get really high accuracy with it, and then you will be able to go out and do predictions through an FBI or U can do bulk predictions out and started back into Aquarian also. So that's the whole thing when making machine learning accessible to everyone in the organization. That's our goal on with that, with a better product to exactly it should be in built into the product. >> So we know you've got a lot of great tech. But you also talk to a lot of customers. Wonder if you might have any good, you know, one example toe to really highlight. Thie updates that you >> think booking dot com is a good example. Our scent. Twentieth Century Fox last year shared their experience off how they could do segmentation of customers and target customers based on their past movies, that they're watched and now they could go out and protect. We have customers like News UK. They're doing subscription prediction like which customers are more likely to subscribe to their newspapers. Which ones are trying may turn out s o those He examples off how machine learning is helping customers like basically to go out and target better customers and make better decisions. >> So, do you talk about the ecosystem? Because one of things we were riffing on yesterday and I was giving a monologue, Dave, about we had a little argument, but I was saying that the old way was a lot of people are seeing an opportunity to make more margin as a system integrated or global less I, for instance. So if you're in the ecosystem dealing with Google, there's a margin opportunity because you guys lower the cost and increase the capability on the analytic side. Mention streaming analytics. So there's a business model moneymaking opportunity for partners that have to be kind of figured out. >> I was the >> equation there. Can you share that? Because there's actually an opportunity, because if you don't spend a lot of time analyzing the content from the data, talk aboutthe >> money means that there's a huge opportunity that, like global system integrators, to come in and help our customers. I think the big challenges more than the margin, there is lot of value in data that customers can get out off. There's a lot of interesting insights, not a good decision making they can do, and a lot of customers do need help in ramping up and making sure they can get value out of that. And it's a great opportunity for our global Asai partners and I've been meeting a lot of them at the show to come in and help organizations accelerate the whole process off, getting insights from from their data, making better decisions, do no more machine learning, leverage all of that. And I think there is a huge opportunity for them to come in. Help accelerate. What's the >> play about what some other low hanging fruit opportunities I'LL see that on ramping or the data ingestion is one >> one loving fruit? Yes, I think no hanging is just moving migration. Earlier, he said. Break the data silos. Get the data into DCP. There's a huge opportunity for customers to be like, you know, get a lot of value. By that migration is a huge opportunity. A lot of customers want to move to cloud, then they don't want to invest more and more and infrastructure on them so that they can begin level Is the benefits off loud? And I think helping customers my great migrations is going to be a huge Obviously, we actually announced the migration program also like a weak back also way. We will give training credits to our customers. We will fund some of the initial input, initial investment and migration activities without a side partners and all, so that that should help there. So I think that's one area. And the second area, I would say, is once the data is in the platform getting value out ofit with aquarium in auto ml, how do you help us? It must be done. I think that would be a huge opportunity. >> So you feel good too, dear. But, you know, build an ecosystem. Yeah. You feel good about that? >> Yeah, way feel very strongly about our technology partners, which are like folks like looker like tableau like, uh, talent confluence, tri factor for data prep All of those that partner ecosystem is there great and also the side partner ecosystem but for delivery so that we can provide great service to our customers >> will be given good logos on that slide. I got to say, Try facts and all the other ones were pretty good etcetera. Okay, so what's the top story for you in the show here, besides your crew out on the date aside for your area was a top story. And then generally, in your opinion, what's the most important story here in Google Cloud next. >> I think two things in general. The biggest news, I think, is open source partnership that we have announced. I'm looking forward to that. It's a great thing. It's a good thing both for the organizations as well as us on DH. Then generally, you'LL see lot off examples of enterprise customers betting on us from HSBC ends at bank that was there with mean in the session. They talked about how they're getting value out ofthe outof our data platform in general, it's amazing to see a lot more enterprises adopting and coming here telling their stories, sharing it with force. >> Okay, thanks so much for joining us. Look, you appreciate it. Good to see you again. Congratulations. Perfect fusion ingesting on ramps into the into the superhighway of Big Query Big engine. They're they're large scale data. Whereas I'm Jeffers dipping them in. We'LL stay with you for more coverage after this short break

(dramatic music) >> Hi I'm Peter Burris, and welcome to another CUBE Conversation from our wonderful Palo Alto studios in beautiful Palo Alto, California. Another great conversation today, this one's especially interesting to me, we've got Tiffani Bova who's the Global Growth and Innovation Evangelist of Salesforce. Just written a book, great book by the way, Growth IQ, I guess it's coming out later in August of 2018. But Tiffani, I want to talk a little bit about something that seems near and dear to your heart, the notion of customer engagement and how that gets turned into business strategy. So, let's start there. What is, in your two and half years at Saleforce, what have you learned about customer engagement and how actionable is it, really? >> Well, you know, Peter, it's a great question 'cause I'd say this, you know, I thought I knew the answer to that question when I stated two and a half years ago and I've had the wonderful pleasure of spending time with customers of ours around the world and now I have a different perspective on what that is. You know, Clayton Christensen wrote that new book, Competing Against Luck and it was all about, sort of, the job that you have to do, right? You're going to go from point A to point B, are you going to catch a taxi or you going to catch an Uber. And what makes the difference if the job is the same, regardless of what you're doing. In my mind, right, it's the experience or the engagement that that particular driver or brand has with the customer that is riding in the back of the car, satisfying the need for the job that needed to be done. And when I started to shift my thinking around it's really this experience layer and this engagement layer of how easy is it, how friction, you could apply it to all kinds of industries now, you know. Whether it's meal delivery, or buying a book or buy, you know, software from someone like Salesforce or consulting or watching this show. It used to be you had to go and watch it live or you'd have to watch it on television, now we have very different ways and means in which you can be engaged. So that has been super exciting to me to see it live and in person as brands are really focusing on this importance of the way in which they engage with, connect with and inspire customers to do things with them as their brand of choice. >> So, as I said, Tiffani, I like the book and there is three or points that really want to draw out. I want to start with the first one though. >> Okay. >> Let's go back to this notion of engagement. >> Yes. >> You make the observation in the book and I also have some, a background, thinking about customer engagement, customer experience but you make a great point in the book that your brand is the promise that you're make to the marketplace. Customer experience is the customer side of the engagement. >> Right. >> It seems as though if there's a significant miss-match between those two, that's the first indication you've got a problem. If your brand promise and what is being experienced are not aligned, that says something, have I got that right? >> Absolutely and what's fascinating about that is many brands feel like they're totally aligned and then in mass, you know, research from all kinds of people whether it's McKenzie or Bain or Gartner or Forester or anybody else, you're seeing this disconnection where the brand thinks it's great and the customer's going, it's not that great. The gap between those two things, unfortunately, even with all the advancements with technology, I feel like it's getting wider, right? Because their still sort of, brands are still sort pushing out what they think is interesting and engaging and customers are going, it's kind of not so much. And so, this really a way and I really dug into it in Growth IQ of how brands can figure out, how do I get closer to that by starting with the customer and working their way back in. I mean, it's a long discussed topic of outside in versus inside out, it's nothing new there but now we have this advancements of technology that actually allow us to know what that outside in is telling us at scale, without having to throw people at the problem. >> Yeah, through data collection and other types of things. >> Absolutely. >> But it all starts with that impedance miss-match. >> Yes. >> And as you said, if businesses don't accept that they have a problem they're not going to change. But that is a measurable, actionable thing. >> Right. >> So, if nothing else, if nobody reads anything else out of the book, just that simple idea that it's not MPV, it's not, you know, other types of measures, your Net Promoter Score or other types of measures but it's, basically, is there that disconnect. So the second thing is is that you've observed how it can be made actionable. Now, you've come up with 10, a recipe, or let's call them 10 ingredients of different ways of thinking about what you might be able to do from a growth standpoint. Now, rather than going through all of them, let's just say that they're there but the thing that's interesting is you've come up with a general framework for how you can imagine putting those things together. You call it context combination sequence, what does that mean? >> It, I think it's, I, when I decided to embark on this journey of writing this book I said, you know, what do I feel has been missing, or what did I notice as a pattern as I was having conversations since I was traveling around and talking to customers. And it wasn't the decision that they make of how they were going to grow that was interesting, it was actually the fact that it was rarely in isolation. It was never a single answer to a very complex problem, it was a combination of a number of things. So, if you're going to launch a new product, like that's going to be your growth strategy, well, are you going to launch it yourself? Are you going to do it with partners? Are you going to launch it direct to consumer online or you going to go into retail? You have to then combine the fact that you want to launch a new product with other things to help you grow. Or if you you're going to say I want to reduce turn, it's not just, well, I'm going to lower a price because that's going to be a reason for people to stay, it's, well wait a second, are the platforms easy to use? Can people open a ticket easily? It's always in combination. >> Do I have visibility into whom I churn? >> And to whom I churn, right? But the first place people fail to start, let's to back to your original question of this gap between what customers expect and what businesses are doing is the context in the market has significantly shifted over the last decade. You could say, well obvious technology advancements but I think far more disruptive than technology is actually the customers themselves demanding more from brands. I want you to be better to the environment. I want you to be better socially. I want you to give me more value for what I'm spending. I want it as a service not as a product. I want it in a monthly bill not a one-time bill. I want to pay usage. Whatever they're saying, the customer has changed the context of the market. And I think that's one of the big triggers in this, so you start with context, what's going on, next is what are you going to combine those efforts with. And then the third thing and equally import is sequence. The order in which you do things actually has implications to the likelihood of success of whatever it is you're doing. If you're going to launch into a new market with a new product, and you don't have the infrastructure for distribution or selling or service in place before you launch the product, probably the wrong order. >> Right. >> Right and so if you need to set up the partnerships and the distribution and support and sales and marketing, support within region or translate things to language or do the things that you need to do to marketing materials or websites before you get there because if you launch, the first impression is gone if it's not a good experience for the customer. >> Yeah, you only have one time to make a first impression. >> You only have one time and it doesn't need to be perfect, but you cannot be just completely off the mark because getting them to come back is more expensive than it would of been had you just taken a pause, gotten it right and launched at the appropriate time. >> And that notion of context is also especially important because you identify something you call timing which is related to sequence in the fact that you have to be very honest about what you can and cannot effect. There are some things you may want to sequencing, you may want to fall the sequence. >> Right. >> But if the market isn't going to respond favorably, tell us a little bit about timing and how context shapes and resets prioritization as it changes as well. >> Yeah so, if you think of somebody like a Netflix, if Netflix had started with streaming and not with DVD mail, you know, in the United States at least, not everybody had bandwidth, it was too expensive, it was in very specific neighborhoods and as bandwidth started to make its way into the households and the cost started to decline, then they could say, well, wait a second, is this the best way to do it or could we potentially stream it and start doing OTT types of services? But they had to wait for the technology as well as the customer to catch up with what was possible. So, had they not done mail and started with streaming, maybe they couldn't of held on long enough. And so, mail was a great way to do, I'm going to capture these customers, I'm going to penetrate this base, get them to order more movies and do more things with me. Now I'm going to introduce streaming. Now I have this base of customers which now may want to transition to a new kind of delivery or experience that they want to have with us. And you might be surprised that they still have hundreds of thousands of mail customer including my mom, she still gets DVDs in the mail. And it's a huge profit engine for them, actually allows them to reinvest in the business to expand the streaming services other places in the world which may never get mail service, right. But in the beachhead of it and just let the customers churn out, never getting rid of it, not marketing it but not getting rid of it. So, had those timings been offered different, they may not have been as successful. So, it really has implications to think about what is the customer looking for, what is the temperature socially, what can technology help me deliver? Putting those things together and going, knowing what I know, I don't need it to be perfect but I'm willing to test it and fail and iterate and keep going as long as I keep that context of the market in mind and then the customer, you know, as sort of my true north of making sure that I'm aligning those things again, like we were talking about. >> So let me see if I can summarize that, so you got to get the context, which is-- >> Yes. >> What's really in the marketplace, customer, regulatory, competitor, all those other thing we think about. >> All those things. >> You think about the combination of recipes or combination of responses and then how you're going to sequence them out. Then that sequencing decision then goes back and says and what do I need to redefine about my understanding of context. >> That's right, that's right. >> So I got that right? >> You've got that right and I would tell you that-- >> So your avoiding boiling the ocean. >> Yeah, and that's what always, sort of, when I was trying to figure out what did I want to say in this book. I did not want it to be a boil of the ocean. I picked 10 paths to growth, none of which I think will be a surprise to anybody. It's a modernization on what Ansoff had done around the Ansoff four, there's that. There are things that now we have at our disposal which we didn't have at our disposal in 1957 when Ansoff came out. >> Yeah. >> I mean, so, you have to obviously introduce new things. So like, just using something like socially conscious enterprise was not something we were talking about 10 years ago. >> Right. >> But it's being used as a growth path now. And so, I wanted to try to give 10 very distinct growth paths so that people didn't feel overwhelmed by the hundreds of choices they could make. So if I could get it to something that was digestible and then say now, how do I put those things together. So I made natural associations between paths so that people would say, oh, if I'm going to do product and customer diversification, I might need to do partnerships. If I have a churn problem, I may need to optimize sales. Those two things fit together, right? If I'm going to, customer experience is at the foundation of everything. >> Right. >> Right, and so I tried to tell the story that people could say, oh, we're already on this path, should be stay on this path? Is it the right path? Should we be moving? Am I doing everything I could be doing to make this path be more effective? And that's what I was hoping to get out this is that I don't want people to think this is something completely flip the chessboard over and start from scratch. >> Right. >> I want you to pivot ever so slowly and make adjustments in real time so that you're not having to do, this is kind of an evolutionary versus revolutionary kind of transformation. >> Yeah, the strategies that seem to work today, or feature three things and kind of comes from Cluetrain Manifesto, agile, the empirical, they're based on data, they're optimistic, they identify what really can be done and their irritative, they take smaller steps when they do that. >> Yes. >> So, let me return back to kind of the notion of engagement, just for a second. >> Sure. >> One of the reasons why this book has so much prescriptive power is because there is a dramatic shift globally in market power. It used to be the sellers had the market power and therefore the information at your disposal that you used to make a decision largely came from the sellers and now, you're able to move into communities where buyers can come together and identify themselves in each other and use that source of information to help you make decisions. Very, very significant and profound shift and that's in many respects what's driving experience. Historically though, we've talked about sales and marketing alignment. (Tiffani laughing) About how we got to get the right message out, we got to enable sales in the right way. But customers spend most of their time with a brand in the form of a product or service which suggests that he whole notion of customer service and sustaining alignment between expectations and actuality in the customer service function becomes especially important. Have I got that right? >> You nailed it, I mean, I would say also you know, and I'm actually a practitioner before I was at Gartner, so I actually ran a division of Gateway computers, I ran sales and marketing for them. Before that I worked in web hosting company, we were the largest web hoster in the United States, we were actually four times the size of Rackspace. I was the beta client for ALOQUA, I was the beta client for Constant Contact. I was socially selling in 2000. Our shared property is web.com, if you watch golf. And so I was super early, so I'm actually a sales, I sort of say I'm a recovering seller, I bleed sales blood. (Peter laughing) And so when I was running both sales and marketing, I could argue with myself. But when I was just selling, you know, I understand this, you know, marketing giving us leads, sales not doing something with it. Then when I had customer service, you know, those three things together, I think today, is where companies really miss an opportunity. That just getting new customers in the door and it's so much more expensive to recruit new customers and to pay to get them versus just mining the gold you've already got. So, that is something that I'd say over the last two and a half years now that I'm here and I see it at scale that I will have conversations with CMOs and heads of sales and then the head of customer service is not in the room or it's just marketing and sales. So the same way marketing enables sales, they need to enable customer service. >> And, very importantly, the information that is being generated out of customer service-- >> Absolutely. >> Need to enable sales and marketing. >> Absolutely-- >> And in products. >> So I would tell you that in my opinion, the disconnection between what customers expect and businesses are doing actually is a manifestation of the unintentional consequence of the disconnection of teams because of the disconnection of metrics. Sales is very much, like how much did you sell? I mean, I'm over simplifying but how much did you sell. Marketing, how many leads did you, good or bad, how many leads? Customer service, how quickly did you get someone off the phone and how many calls did, tickets did you close today? Those three things pull those three groups in very different directions. So, something like a Net Promoter Score or churn or lifetime values, something can thread those three groups together in a metric so that people know that they're all in this together even though they play different roles. And so, I think the fact that people try to own customer experience worries me because I think the whole company has to be very focused on... >> It's a CEO job. >> But then it's a cultural shift, right? >> Absolutely. >> It's about culture, it's about this customer wants to have me help their problem but I have to get off the phone in two minutes because that's my quota and so do I get off the phone in two minutes or do I help my customer? >> Okay, let me make one quick comment and I'm going to ask you one last question. >> Yeah. >> And the quick comment I'll make is very prominent CEO of a very, very large computing company once said to me, I asked this person, 'cause I thought that they had won large because of marketing. And I said, so, tell me about he role of marketing within your company. And this person said to me, oh, marketing is what I put between engineering and sales so they don't kill each other. (Tiffani laughing) And I think that needs, obviously that orientation needs to change. But the last thing I wanted to talk about is one of the patterns you noted is disruption or disruptive-- >> Yes. >> I don't remember exactly what you called it but it boiled down, it could mean a lot of things, but you specifically focused on and you've already mentioned it, social good. >> Yep. >> As part of a strategy, give us a, you know 30 second, 44 second, why is social good becoming a viable strategy or viable pattern, one of the combinations that's working today? >> Well, I'd say, Salesforce was founded on the 1-1-1 model, which was very much about sort of this doing well by doing good, or doing good by doing good. But I would say this that even if you've watched television commercials over the last year, especially since Super Bowl last year, you'll see brands actually making statements about how they do well for the environment, how they're giving back, how they're hiring veterans, how they're doing things for... You know, Starbucks just announced they're going to- >> How they're willing to fly immigrant children home if they need to. >> Yeah, Starbucks is not doing a Starbucks in DC that will be signing so for hearing impaired. So you see people really making pivots and actually using that as I'm trying to connect with my constituency and my customer base in a new and different way. I love the fact that social consciousness is now getting into Unilever and getting into, you know the 1-1-1 model spread across 3,000 companies now. Or the Tom's model, one for one, buy a shoe, a shoe gets donated. You see it happening with a lot of start ups now where they're trying to start the company that way. Now, if you have a company that didn't start that way, there's not reason why you can't start to find a place where you can inject it going forward. But I'm super excited about that. >> Tiffani Bova, Global Growth Innovation Evangelist Salesforce, talking about the book Growth IQ. Again, great book. >> Thank you. >> Very prescriptive and I mean, I generally hate business books, lot of case studies. Thanks very much for being on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me, peter, it's been a pleasure. >> Absolutely, so once again, thanks for participating in our CUBE Conversation and until the next one, we'll see you soon. (dramatic music)

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone we're here live in San Francisco red hat summit 2018 s cubes exclusive coverage we're out in the open in the middle of floor here as open source has always done out in the open it's the cube doing our part extracting the cylinders I'm John for the co-host of the cube with John Troy you might coast analyst this week he's the co-founder of a firm advisory firm our guest case is Paul Comey a president and products on technology of Red Hat architecting the future of red hat and products and technologies all open source great to see you again major see you so thank you coming on so great keynote today you guys have done a great job here I thought the messaging was great but the excitement was strong we just came back off of a week in Copenhagen coop con where kubernetes clearly sees the de facto standard around kubernetes the core kubernetes with a lot of room to differentiate around you got sto service meshes a lot of exciting things for application developers and then under the hood and the new life being brought into OpenStack so there's clear visibility now into what's going on swim lanes whatever we call it people kind of see it so congratulations thank you magical moment Lucky Strike all on the cards give us some color you guys been working on this for a while go back and where did it all start and when did things start clicking together for you guys well I know I sometimes sound like a broken record here but I mean the key to our success is the commercialization of Linux I mean you know Linux we started Linux as a commodity play you know it was cheaper cheaper almost as good et cetera but it became such a powerful platform all the innovation you just talked about is built around Linux it's all tied into Linux so once we lay down the Linux base and the customer and the customer data centers which is such the logical extension to go to these new technologies because it really you really need to be a Linux vendor in order to be able to do a kubernetes to release to be able to support our containers release any of these things it's all just intertwining the Linux and your model is working honestly the open source is no secret that that's open open it's over proprietary and closed but you also have a community model that's feeding into the price of technologies Jim Weider zzyx you know went into detail on hey you don't you know you have a crystal ball and technology because you're smart guys but ultimately the users in the communities give you direct feedback of what's relevant and cool at the right time this is really where kubernetes Lucky Strike for you guys was really there you saw it so the commitment you jumped in can you explain that dynamic of how the products get fed in from the communities I'll give you actually a better example of OpenShift itself so we originally started OpenShift back in 2011 and we started it as a marketing project we started it as a as a cloud-based platform to get developers out there building to our platform and a lot of our customer base saw it and came to us and said I want this as a product this is really really powerful so we made a product out of it first one kubernetes wasn't around containers weren't around we'd built it on virtual machines we had we had what we called gears to lock in and and then containers started to morph in and read by release three we transformed it to containers then we brought in kubernetes because we had worked with the Google folks earlier on that so we really listened to our customers we started at something we thought was going to be an expense and it turns out to be you know one of our hottest our hottest platform right now based on what our customers in the community told us timings everything - and the good timing is as the clouds took the scale started also becoming relevant you see Amazon success now you got as your IBM and everyone's kind of seeing that opportunity how are you guys looking at the container piece because you know we can look at the history and docker you know trying to monetize too early we've been you know we've documented that it went well in the cube many times core OS a recent acquisition big one for you guys and strategic but also a great team containers are super important talk about the role of containers specifically not so much as a business model but as a lynchpin right between how orchestration is moving and how these service messages are coming out I mean you think just real quickly what containers are first containers are just Linux carved up in a different way you still have a kernel still have user space the difference is you take just the user space you want with the application and you run it that way so all the same life cycles security issues you have to fix etc they have to do on a standard Linux have to do it in containers the first thing containers been around forever they were in units if we all if we all remember but the killer app for containers was because now when I can bring just enough two of the OS with the application I can run that to the cloud that's how we get the app out to the cloud that's how we get it onto the private cloud out to any of the public clouds how we reverse the clouds so even though they've been around for a while it's the killer app for containers so you mentioned hybrid cloud hybrid cloud multi-cloud are there are the terms it's this week we hear them a lot that been up on stage one way of putting it is is thinking about that different places of deploying but in one you are really saying that it doesn't matter where you deploy there's there's layers of an especially openshift can take you to different clouds it location doesn't matter anymore can you drill down on that a little bit absolutely I mean our our whole we took a bed I mean it sounds obvious now it always does right we took a bed on hybrid cloud I've been talking about it for six or seven years and what it means is customers are going to have applications that run on bare metal they're going to have running as virtual machines probably on VMware they're going to maybe run their private clouds maybe containers maybe across multiple clouds end of the day it's it's Linux underneath that what customers don't want is five different operating because every Linux is slightly different they don't want five different operating environments they want and want one so what we do with rel and with openshift is we give you that abstraction layer for your application to code once and you can move that app anywhere I mean the clouds the public clouds have brought a tremendous amount of innovation and I don't want to say this in a derogatory way but in some sense they're like a mainframe because they have their stack all the way up to there a flick their products are their services and so you start you start up you start up a service of server lists of lambda that's never leaving Amazon never so so it's great in many cases if that's ok for that app but there's a lot of cases you might want to run the app here one day and there the next day so you really need an abstraction layer to ensure that you have that portability and that's what shift and containers are so important right I hear things like de-facto standard and abstraction layers the bells go up opportunity because you now that's where complexity can be reduced down when you have good at rational layers but we've been interviewing folks here and the some themes have come up about the sea change that we're facing this cloud scale new Internet infrastructure going on globally and the two points are tcp/ip moment you know during that time that was networking even and that disrupted decnet today and others and then HTTP both are different HTV was all new capabilities the web disrupt the Direct Mail and other things analog leaving but he stupid created inter inter networking basis right Cisco and everything else here what containers what's interesting and I want to get your reaction to this is that with containers I don't have to kill the old to bring in the new I can do the new and then let the lifecycle of those workloads take a natural natural course this is a good thing for enterprise they don't have to rush in do a rip and replace they don't have to react attacked hire new people at massive scale talk about that dynamic is that seems to be what's happening it's exactly what's heavy you know we did a bunch of demos on stage this week I think nine of them live the coolest demo was the one where we showed we actually took a Windows virtual machine with a Windows SQL based virtual machine from VMware with tools we brought that over to a KVM environment which is it's a different format for the VM brought that to a KVM environment we then use tools to slice it up into two containers one being the app itself the other being at SQL and we deployed it out to openshift and we could eventually have deployed out to any public cloud that's significant for two reasons first of all you're now seeing kubernetes orchestrating VMs right beside containers so you can kind of see where that's going right so that's really that's interesting for the operators now because now they get they bring whittled down some of that complex it's really interest interesting for the developers because from a perspective they're going to be asked to bring these traditional virtual machines into containers in the old world they have to go to a VMware front-end to do that then they have to come over here to a route to a to a rev or rel front-end to do it now they can just bring their VM with tools over work on it split it up into containers and deploy it it's it's its efficiency adds at its best and shift without any effort without any effort really how about the impact of the customers because this is to me that the big money moment because that means an enterprise can actually progress and accelerate their digital transformation or whatever they got going on to a new architecture a new internet infrastructure we hear things like Network effect decentralized storage with with blockchain new capabilities that aren't measured by traditional older stacks that we've seen an e-commerce DNS and other things so a shifts happening the shifts have a cloud scale I say synchronous the pile are these cars with a scalable whole new way let's see what does that mean for customers what it means for customers is two things that are important the shift is happening you're getting tools and you're getting tools and platforms to make that shift more seamless and you know I'd love to say it's all red head engineers that are giving you this but the reason why it's moving so fast is because it's open so the innovation comes from anywhere it's way too big of a problem for any one customer to solve where we're just helping our customers consume it that's one thing but I think the other thing is important is that's important is not every application is going to be suited to go to a container based application so because it's all on that rel common layer our customers can still have one operating environment and have have compatibility as they do the shift but still keep their business going over here maybe forever these apps may never come off a bare-metal for example Paul I wanted to talk a little bit about Red Hat scope inside IT I love the the connection that between you know the container layer that is just Linux but and also the standards layer but you know now that we're up at threat you know with the with open shift and with multi cloud you know global huge scale operation there's a lot there's a lot more involved right cloud layout level ops is you now at Red Hat is involved with with process and and culture and you have a lot more than just you have a lot more that you're involved in helping IT with than just a Linux and some and connection to the back to the machine so can you talk a little bit about about what you're trying to do with the customer great it's a great point then when I started with a company 17 years ago we weren't talking to CIOs in fact the CIOs we were in that we were coming in the back door the operations people were bringing Linux in the back door and they the CIOs didn't even know it was run in there and but now as you said we're CIOs are trying to figure out how does public cloud fit into my IT environment how does a multiple public cloud fit in out of containers fit in what do I do with my older applications where there re architecting that's at the cio level now you know they're having to re architecture architect for the next generation computing so we've had to build services around that we have labs we have innovation labs where we bring our customers in and work with them and help them you know figure out and help them map out where they're going for the first time we actually I've had cut many customers tell me so is this is the with openshift it's the first time I've got my developers in my Ops people in the same room and we've facilitated that discussion because no one's right it's gotta be one one motion and so that's that's the interesting part for us we've really moved up the chain and our customer base because we're almost a consultative sale now to help them get to the next generation talk about the enabling aspect of this because I referenced tcp/ip and HTTP but now if you go forward and say okay we're gonna have this new environment it's not just about redheads by Linux it's about the operating system which you guys obviously offer for free and then have services around it and have stopped software how is Linux with the new capability of open shift and standards like kubernetes with containers how in your opinion is that an enabling an opportunity for ecosystem new startups and enterprises themselves because we see if this happens and continues to happen oh yeah it's going to be a new names gonna come out of the woodwork new startups gonna happen you see you see it every day I mean you wouldn't do a start-up today that wasn't software wise it wasn't based on Linux and and and that's why in all the innovation today because all the innovation today is based on Linux you know one of the things we and that we released last week a cube con is I don't know if you saw it or not we released a kubernetes SDK and it can track or OS it couldn't came with the core OS guys we put that out into the community it's really an SDK for ISVs and software but vendors to build into the api's of kubernetes in an open way so that once they get out into the commercial world they're ready that's how significant we all think that kubernetes is going to be i we think that's where the services are going to hang in the infrastructure but but having said that I think it also tells you that you know the impact that these open technologies are having on the future I wanna get into the chorus in a minute but I want to ask you about the white spaces so if someone who's that in charge of the troops inside Red Hat products and technologies where's the white space opportunities that people can dig in and and build out innovation around this major shift that you guys are on this wave where's the opportunity for the channel partners the integrators globe last night's developers anyone where's the key areas I mean with our platforms of open shift and OpenStack we have we have certified entry points via api's in storage networking management so we've got hybrid management but certainly we don't think we're gonna do everything in management by any stretch we have it we have a set of api's from management partners to plug in and by the way what I tell my my management R&D folks no hidden api same api's we use they use so so storage is another area new storage solutions networking certainly AI is one of the areas one of the things we showcased here was AI permeating through our entire product line I don't know if you saw the face recognition demo out there but it was it was pretty cool in and even if you want to consume that AI through one of the cloud providers we can pass you straight through from openshift to consume it that way as well on automation I want to get your thoughts on something we've talked a few days ago here on the cube was automation is great so let's give an example I'm automating a service you know if it's a coop with kubernetes and containers and as a memory leak right and every boots but automates I don't know so you got to have a new level of instrumentation down at the code level how do you see that playing out because now we got to be smarter about what's working and not working because I might not never know just reboots intermittently give me some mystery was a memory link could be something else but but that's so this is one of the places where using AI so we've been we've been our first stint with AI came out of our support group so we've been supporting Linux and open source for 25 years got a massive database of what failures were what the fixes were we started using AI in a support group to point our reps at a particular article based symptoms that they were hearing from our we realized we had about an 80% hit rate on you know on getting to our reps to the right to the right article so now we've built that into the products and so we use that AI like for example OpenShift IO which is at one of our developer platforms developers trying to link in a library we can tell them you know what there's a new there's a newer version of that library you know what that library has a security flaw in and at this line of code maybe you want to consider using another one but it's from our years and years of doing this that we're building that day database I mean oai is only so good as the data that you fed it and so have a certain level of granularity down to do you do it and then also ai it also is a reason why all our services are now on open shift because you're absolutely right if I've got a raw JBoss service running on raw Amazon I can't instrument that underneath because Amazon's got that layer closed if I have open shifts there and it's in the infrastructure is open shift even running in Amazon or sure anywhere we can now instrument that to look at some of the things we need to look at to recognize an event a week or or whatever Paul talk about their journey with kora West obviously we've been super excited by that we've been following Korres from the beginning great technical team pure open-source guys and in that container part of the evolution in time everyone's trying to force a business model and you're really hard to force a business model is something that too early or might not even be relevant to build the business around it might be a feature not a company kind of thing so you guys put a big price tag on them sizable chunk of cash how did it all play out you guys just like hey wow we're gonna we wait like these guys they're super technical meeting of the minds and then how that has fit in from a product and technology stand a little bit a little of all of that of course the benefit of being you know having the open source development in in your DNA as we knew them all right so we knew how good they were because they we work our guys work with them every day so that was something when they decided early on like us to go to kubernetes they became a big part of the of the community of kubernetes in our model from day one you can't be an open-source provider if you're not strong in the upstream community because how can you affect what your customers are asking you to do if you and effect upstream they were big in the upstream big and kubernetes and so at that point we that's what we just said they had done some interesting things that we hadn't got to they did a lot of the automation they were doing over-the-air updates of the container platforms a week which we hadn't got to yet they had a really good following in the community so we decided you know we paid a we paid a hefty price but at this stage of the game we really feel that we took an early bit in kubernetes we really feel that that's gonna be the future in containers if there's gonna be a place a place that you pay maybe a little more this is the place well Paul I think another example is ansible a year or two back right and that's been a remained a huge success and I can say you haven't messed it up right and it's it's it's been powerful accomplished well most acquisitions you know and in end in tears so it seems like RedHat seems to be good at this kind of an open source acquisition we we get to interview them for two years before we bring them in based on well how we work in the community but you know we're very where we're bringing in people I don't I hate to say the word M&A or acquisition I just hate that word because we're just joining forces here you know it just took a a big check to do it yeah and you guys have the business model kneel down this is good was good for court at the time for them to they didn't have to worry about having to figure out a go to market and monetize right an upstream presence which was very valuable and then trying to shoehorn a business all around it and which is difficult companies died doing it yeah I mean I can't think of many that have been that successful at it I mean it's a hard thing to do I mean look we've had a great advantage you know we've had rail in the market for 16 years and it built a base for us I'm not gonna try to I'm not gonna try to kid you on that and it's the it's the Linux base that everything's getting built around and so we just keep those those principles we've used for the last 16 years we stay true to weak true to them we could not do a proprietary piece of software now if our lives depended on it that's the DNA well how do you handle the growth you get hiring new people - that's a challenge we've been we were talking to folks about on your team and across RedHat around hiring people and and you got to maintain that eco so you have to maintain that DNA way how do you guys do that what's the is there like a special three three day you know hypnotic class a you know this is how we do it I have to tell you it's a bit easier on the engineering side because you know it's typically engineers that have been working in the community etc but you know our business unit side and other pieces where people have been coming out of big companies and they're used to a hierarchical environment we really take that into account in the interview process I'll be frank not everyone makes it through I mean RedHat is you know titles really don't matter a ringlet company yeah totally engineering as all should be by the way if biased opinion fit okay so great to have you on thanks for spending the time I know you're super busy a couple questions before we wrap up what are you most proud of as you look back now I mean someone again it's almost hindsight's 2020 looks obvious these calls but you know I interviewed Diane at OpenStack many years ago took a lot of heat for that kubernetes movement people weren't it wasn't obvious to a lot of people at that time the kubernetes bet you guys make good bets looking back what are you most proud of that's most significant or or you think people should know well those were that was a seminal moment in redhead history that decision what take us through some of the key milestones in your opinion the for the first one there's probably three or four the first one was gonna Ralph because you have to understand what we did we were in we were a completely retail when I joined the company with 50 million dollars in revenue losing two hundred and so we had a retail product we stopped it to go to route literally literally stop the product bet the company move second one was JBoss we were about 300 million in revenue we paid 425 million for JBoss now that was a big one the third one you might not recognize this one moving from Xen to KVM because Xen was going off down the the VC world trying to figure out how to monetize as a company somebody in Israel came up with a with a better model with KVM the rest of the industry was on Zen we said as a single player we're going this way that was a big bet that I don't even know we recognized the significance of at the time and in kubernetes as I said we pivoted on that in 2012 or so and I've got a lot of R&D money in that and paying on what made you go to kubernetes just curious was the has the Borg success how software is being done at Google was it the role of containers did you guys have that foresight at that time saying containers gonna have a critical role we don't want to screw that up we can bring this in we're looking at from a stack perspective or was it more of a future scenario it was a lot of it was its its heritage out of Borg and knowing the talent in Google and engineering and we talked to we had we had many many discussions we all we continually do with those guys so I think it was mostly a technical decision and what we said was at that point putting our weight behind it we just need to make the community successful so I mean we quickly figure with us in Google it was a it was a fairly good bad not as sure bet but a good bet and that's what made us go there it was really it was really a technology decision possible final question as we wrap up for the folks watching who couldn't make it here in San Francisco for Red Hat summit 2018 what's the big takeaway what's the present technology what's the North Star for you and your team and what are you guys putting as a priority what's the focus I think I think the takeaway from here is you know I think it's I think it's a pretty solid couple things are really solid it's going to be the future is going to be open source period end of story especially in the infrastructure and application development world third thing is hybrid cloud is the model it's the only practical way not every application is moving to one public cloud tomorrow and the third thing is for Red Hat that's the architecture that we build around every day we guide what are what products we build what M&A we do everything we do is around that model and open if I see a centerpiece of all the piece without all that coming thank you for coming on president of Protestant technology at Red Hat I'm John ferry with John Moyer stay with us for more live covers our third day of three days of live coverage here out in the open like open source we're doing our share bringing you the content you right back with more after this short break you

>> Narrator: Live from New York City, it's the CUBE covering CyberConnect 2017 brought to you by Centrify and the Institute for Critical Infrastructure Technology. >> Okay welcome back everyone. This is the CUBE's live coverage in New York City exclusively with the CyberConnect 2017, it's an inaugural event presented by Centrify. It's not a Centrify event. Centrify one of the fastest growing security startups in Silicon Valley and around the world. It is underwriting this great event bringing industry, government and practitioners together to add value on top of the great security conversations. I'm John Furrier, your host with Dave Vellante, my co-host, my next guest is Bill Mann who's the Chief Product Officer with Centrify. Welcome back to the CUBE, great to see you. >> Hey, great to be here. >> Thanks and congratulations for you guys doing what I think is a great community thing, underwriting an event, not just trying to take the event, make it about Centrify, it's really an organically driven event with the team of customers you have, and industry consultants and practitioners, really, really great job, congratulations. >> Bill: Thank you. >> Alright so now let's get down to the meat of the conversation here at the show in the hallways is general's conversation, General Alexander talking about his experience at the NSA and the Fiber Command Center. Really kind of teasing out the future of what cyber will be like for an enterprise whether it's a slow moving enterprise or a fast moving bank or whatever, the realities are this is the biggest complexity and challenge of our generation. Identity's at the heart of it. You guys were called the foundational element of a new solution that has people have to coming together in a community model sharing data, talking to each other, why did he call you guys foundational? >> I think he's calling us foundational because I think he's realizing that having strong identity in an environment is kind of the keys to getting yourself in a better state of mind and a better security posture. If we look at the kind of the foundational principles of identity, it's really about making sure you know who the people are within your organization, by doing identity assurance so that's a foundational principle. The principle of giving people the least amount of access within an organization, that's a foundational principle. The principle of understanding what people did and then using that information and then adjusting policy, that's a foundational principle. I think that's the fundamental reason why he talks about it as a foundational principle and let's face it, most organizations are now connected to the Cloud, they've got mobile user, they've got outsourced IT so something's got to change, right. I mean the way we've been running security up until now. If it was that great, we wouldn't have had all the threats, right? >> And all kinds of silver bullets have been rolling out, Dave and I were commenting and Dave made a point on our intro today that there's no silver bullet in security, there's a lot of opportunities to solve problems but there's no, you can't buy one product. Now identity is a foundational element. Another interesting thing I want to get your reaction to was on stage was Jim from Aetna, the Chief Security Officer and he was kind of making fun with himself by saying I'm not a big computer science, I was a history major and he made a comment about his observation that when civilizations crumble, it's because of trust is lost. And kind of inferring that you can always connect the dots that trust in fundamental and that email security and most of the solutions are really killing the trust model rather than enhancing it and making it more secure so a holistic view of trust stability and enhancement can work in security. What's your reaction to that? >> So it's a complicated area. Trust is complicated let me just kind of baseline that for the moment. I think that we unfortunately, need to have better trust but the way we're approaching trust at the moment is the wrong way so let me give you a simple example. When we go, when we're at home and we're sleeping in our homes and the doors and windows are closed, we inherently trust the security of our environment because the doors and windows are closed but reality is the doors and windows can be really easily opened right, so we shouldn't be trusting that environment at all but we do so what we need to instead do is get to a place where we trust the known things in our environment very, very well and understand what are the unknown things in our environment so the known things in our environment can be people right, the identity of people, can be objects like knowing that this is really Bill's phone, it's a registered phone and it's got a device ID is better than having any phone being used for access so like I said, trust, it's complicated. >> John: But we don't know it has malware on there though. You could have malware. >> You could have malware on there but look, then you've got different levels of trust, right. You've got zero trust when you don't know anything about it. You've got higher levels of trust when you know it's got no malware. >> So known information is critical. >> Known information is critical and known information can then be used to make trust decisions but it's when we make decisions on trust without any information and where we infer that things are trustworthy when they shouldn't be like the home example where you think the doors are closed but it's so easy to break through them, that's when we infer trust so trust is something that we need to build within the environment with information about all the objects in the environment and that's where I think we can start building trust and that's I think how we have to approach the whole conversation about trust. Going back to your example, when you receive an email from somebody, you don't know if it came from that person right. Yet I'm talking to you, I trust that I'm talking to you, right, so that's where the breakdown happens and once we have that breakdown, society can breakdown as well. >> But going back to your device example so there are situations today. I mean you try to log on to your bank from your mobile device and it says do you want to remember this device, do you want to trust this device? Is that an example of what you're talking about and it might hit me a text with a two factor authentication. >> That's an example, that's absolutely an example of trust and then so there's a model in security called the zero trust model and I spoke about it earlier on today and that model of security is the foundational principles of that is understanding who the user is, understanding what endpoint or device they're coming from and that's exactly what you've described which is understanding the context of that device, the trustworthy of the device, you know the location of that device, the posture of that device. All of those things make that device more trustworthy than knowing nothing about that device and those are the kind of fundamental constructs of building trust within the organization now as opposed to what we've got at the moment is we're implying trust without any information about really trust right. I mean most of us use passwords and most of us use password, password so there's no difference between both of you, right and so how can I trust-- >> I've never done that. >> I know but how can we trust each other if we're using you know, data like that to describe ourselves. >> Or using the data in your Linkedin profile that could be socially engineered. >> Bill: Exactly. >> So there's all kinds of ways to crack the passwords so you brought up the trust so this is a, spoofing used to be a common thing but that's been resolved that some, you know same calling some techniques and other things but now when you actually have certificates being compromised, account compromised, that's where you know, you think you know who that person is but that's not who it is so this is a new dynamic and was pointed out in one of the sessions that this account, real compromises of identity is a huge issue. What are you guys doing to solve that problem? Have you solved that problem? >> We're addressing parts of solving that problem and the part of the problem that we're trying to solve is increasing the posture of multi factor authentication of that user so you know more certainty that this is really who that person is. But the fact of the matter is like you said earlier on, trying to reduce the risk down to zero is almost impossible and I think that's what we have to be all clear about in this market, this is not about reducing risk to zero, it's about getting the risk down to something which is acceptable for the type of business you are trying to work on so implementing MFA is a big part of what Centrify advocates within organizations. >> Explain MFA real quick. >> Oh, multi factor authentication. >> Okay, got it. >> Something that we're all used to when we're using, doing online banking at the moment but unfortunately most enterprises don't implement MFA for all the use cases that they need to be able to implement before. So I usually describe it as MFA everywhere and the reason I say MFA everywhere, it should be for all users, not a subset of the users. >> Should be all users, yeah. >> And it should be for all the accesses when they're accessing salesforce.com for concur so all the application, all the servers that they access, all the VPNs that they access, all the times that they request any kind of privilege command, you should reauthenticate them as well at different points in time. So implementing MFA like that can reduce the risk within the organization. >> So I buy that 100% and I love that direction, I'd ask you then a hard question. Anyone who's an Apple user these days knows how complicated MFA could be, I get this iCloud verification and it sends me a code to my phone which could be hacked potentially so you have all these kinds of complexities that could arise depending upon how complicated the apps are. So how should the industry think about simplifying and yet maintaining the security of the MFA across workloads so application one through n. >> So let me kind of separate the problems out so we focus on the enterprise use case so what you're describing is more the consumer use case but we have the same problem in the enterprise area as well but at least in the enterprise area I think that we're going to be able to address the problems sooner in the market. >> John: Because you have the identity baseline? >> One, we have the identity and there's less applications that the enterprise is using. >> It's not Apple. >> It's not like endpoints. >> But take Salesforce, that's as much of a pain, right. >> But with applications like Salesforce, and a lot of the top applications out there, the SaaS applications out there, they already support SAML as a mechanism for eliminating passwords altogether and a lot of the industry is moving towards using API mechanisms for authentication. Now your example for the consumer is a little bit more challenging because now you've got to get all these consumer applications to tie in and so forth right so that's going to be tougher to do but you know, we're focused on trying to solve the enterprise problem and even that is being a struggle in the industry. It's only now that you're seeing standards like SAML and OWASP getting implemented whereby we can make assertions about an identity and then an application can then consume that assertion and then move forward. >> Even in those situations if I may Bill, there's take the trust to another level which is there's a trusted third party involved in those situations. It might be Twitter, Linkedin, Facebook or Google, might be my bank, it might be RSA in some cases. Do you envision a day where we can eliminate the trusted third party with perhaps blockchain. >> Oh I actually do. Yeah, no, I do, I think the trusted third party model that we've got is broken fundamentally because if a break in to the bank, that's it, you know the third party trust but I'm a big fan of blockchain mainly because it's going to be a trusted end party right so there's going to be end parties that are vouching for Bill's identity on the blockchain so and it's going to be harder to get to all those end minors and convince them that they need to change their or break into them right. So yeah I'm a big fan of the trust model changing. I think that's going to be one of the biggest use cases for blockchain when it comes to trust and the way we kind of think about certificates and browsers and SSL certificates and so forth. >> I think you're right on the money and what i would add to that is looking at this conference, CyberConnect, one theme that I see coming out of this is I hear the word reimagining the future here, reimagining security, reimagining DNS, reimagining so a lot of the thought leaders that are here are talking about things like okay, here's what we have today. I'm not saying throwing it away but it's going to be completely different in the new world. >> Yeah and I think you know the important thing about the past is got to learn from the past and we got to apply some of the lessons to the future and things are just so different now. We know with microservices versus monolithic application architectures you know security used to be an afterthought before but you know, you talk to the average developer now, they want to add security in their applications, they realize that right so, and that's going to, I mean, maybe I'm being overly positive but I think that's going to take us to a better place. >> I think we're in a time. >> We need to be overly positive Bill. >> You're the chief officer, you have to have a 20 mouth stare and I think you know legacy always has been a thing we've heard in the enterprise but I just saw a quote on Twitter on the internet and it was probably, it's in quotes so it's probably right, it's motivating, a motivating quote. If you want to create the future, you've got to create a better version of the past and they kind of use taxis versus Uber obviously to answer of a shift in user behavior so that's happening in this industry. There's a shift of user experience, user expectations, changing internet infrastructure, you mentioned blockchain, a variety of other things so we're actually in a time where the better mouse trap actually will work. If you could come out with a great product that changes the economics and the paradigm or use case of an old legacy. So in a way by theory if you believe that, legacy shouldn't be a problem. >> You know and I certainly believe that. Having a kid who's in middle school at the moment, and the younger generation, to understand security way more than we ever used to and you know, this generation, this coming generation understands the difference between a password and a strong password and mobile be used as a second factor authentication so I think that the whole tide will rise here from a security perspective. I firmly believe that. >> Dave: You are an optimist. >> Well about government 'cause one thing that I liked about the talk here from the general was he was pretty straight talk and one of his points, I'm now generalizing and extrapolating out is that the HR side of government has to change in other words the organizational behavior of how people look at things but also the enterprise, we've heard that a lot in our Cloud coverage. Go back eight years when the Clouderati hit, oh DevOps is great but I can't get it through 'cause I've got to change my behavior of my existing staff. So the culture of the practitioners have to change. >> Bill: Yes, absolutely. >> 'Cause the new generation's coming. >> Oh absolutely, absolutely. I was speaking to a customer this morning who I won't mention and literally they told me that their whole staff has changed and they had to change their whole staff on this particular project around security because they found that the legacy thinking was there and they really wanted to move forward at a pace and they wanted to make changes that their legacy staff just wouldn't let 'em move forward with so basically, all of their staff had been changed and it was a memorable quote only because this company is a large organization and it's struggling with adopting new technologies and it was held back. It was not held back because of product or strategies, >> John: Or willingness. >> Or willingness. It was held back by people who were just concerned and wanted to stick to the old way of doing things and that has to change as well so I think you know, there's times will change and I think this is one of those times where security is one of those times where you got to push through change otherwise I mean I'm also a believer that security is a competitive advantage for an organization as well and if you stick with the past, you're not going to be able to compete in the future. >> Well, and bad user behavior will always trump good security. It was interesting to hear Jim Routh today talk about unconventional message and I was encouraged, he said, you know spoofing, we got DMARC, look alike domains, we got sink holes, display name deception, we've got, you know we can filter the incoming and then he talked about compromised accounts and he said user education and I went oh, but there's hope as an optimist so you've got technologies on the horizon to deal with that even right so you. >> I'm also concerned that the pace at which the consumer world is moving forward on security, online banking and even with Google and so forth that the new generation will come into the workforce and be just amazed how legacy the environments are right, 'cause the new generation is used to using you know, Google Cloud, Google Mail, Google everything and everything works, it's all integrated already and if they're coming to the workplace and that workplace is still using legacy technologies right, they're not going to be able to hire those people. >> Well I'll give you an example. When I went to college, I was the first generation, computer science major that didn't have to use punch cards and I was blown away like actually people did that like what, who the hell would ever do that? And so you know, I was the younger guy coming up, it was like, I was totally looking down. >> Dave: That's ridiculous. >> I would thank God I don't do that but they loved it 'cause they did it. >> I mean I've got the similar story, I was the first generation in the UK. We were the first Mac-Lab in the UK, our university had the first large Mac, Apple Macintosh Lab so when I got into the workplace and somebody put a PC in front of me, I was like hold on, where's the mouse, where's the windows, I couldn't handle it so I realized that right so I think we're at that kind of junction at the moment as well. >> We got two minutes left and I want to ask you kind of a question around the comment you just made a minute ago around security as a competitive advantage. This is really interesting, I mean you really can't say security is a profit center because you don't sell security products if you're deploying state of the art security practices but certainly it shouldn't be a cost center so we've seen on our CUBE interviews over the past year specifically, the trend amongst CCOs and practitioners is when pressed, they say kind of, I'm again generalizing the trend, we're unbundling the security department from IT and making it almost a profit center reporting to the board and or the highest levels, not like a profit center but in a way, that's the word they use because if we don't do that, our ability to make a profit is there so you've brought up competitive strategy, you have to have a security and it's not going to be underneath an IT umbrella. I'm not saying everyone's doing it but the trend was to highlight that they have to break out security as a direct report as if it was a profit center because their job is so critical, they don't want to be caught in an IT blanket. Do you see that trend and your comment and reaction to that statement? >> I see that trend but I see it from a perspective of transparency so I think that taking security out of the large umbrella of IT and given its own kind of foundation, own reporting structure is all about transparency and I think that modern organizations understand now the impact a breach can have to a company. >> John: Yeah, puts you out of business. >> Right, it puts you out of business right. You lose customers and so forth so I think having a security leader at the table to be able to describe what they're doing is giving the transparency for decision makers within the organization and you know, one of my other comments about it being a competitive advantage, I personally think let's take the banking arena, it's so easy to move from bank A to bank B and I personally think that people will stay with a certain bank if that bank has more security features and so forth. I mean you know, savings, interest rates going to be one thing and mortgage rates are going to be one thing but if all things are even. >> It's a product feature. >> It's a product feature and I think that again, the newer generation is looking for features like that, because they're so much more aware of the threat landscape. So I think that's one of the reasons why I think it's a competitive advantage but I agree with you, having more visibility for an organization is important. >> You can't make a profit unless the lights are on, the systems are running and if you have a security hack and you're not running, you can't make a profit so it's technically a profit center. Bill I believe you 100% on the competitive strategy. It certainly is going to be table stakes, it's part of the product and part of the organization's brand, everything's at stake. Big crisis, crisis of our generation, cyber security, cyber warfare for the government, for businesses as a buzz thing and business, this is the Centrify presented event underwritten by Centrify here in New York City. CyberConnect 2017, the CUBE's exclusive coverage. More after this short break. (electronic jingle)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017, brought to you by Samsung. >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage, exclusive coverage of Samsung Developer Conference, SDC 2017. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. Next guest is Patrick Moorhead who is the president and principal analyst at Moor Insights and Strategy, friend of theCUBE. We see him everywhere we go. He's quoted in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, all the top publications, and today, he was just on Power Lunch on CNBC. Here for our Power Cube segment, welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you again. >> Hey, thanks for being here, and I appreciate you putting up with me heckling you from outside of theCUBE. >> Always great to have you on. Hard hitting, you're one of the best analysts in the business. We know you work hard, we see you at all the events that we go to. I got to get your take, Samsung. Obviously now obviously you run in parallel, at some point on Amazon, obviously winning in the cloud. Samsung downplaying their cloud, but calling about smart things. I get that, the cloud is kind of fragmented, they're trying to hide the ball there, I get that. But they talk about IOT which you got to talk about cloud without IOT, what's your analysis of Samsung? >> Yeah so first off, Samsung is a collection of really really successful stovepiped companies, right? You have displays, you have semiconductors, you have mobile phones, you have all these different areas and they say a lot of times your strength is sometimes your weakness, and the divisions just don't talk a whole lot. But what they did, and this is the first time I've seen this in a long time, is they got on the same page and said you know, we have to work together because IOT and connected and intelligent connectedness can't be done in stovepipes, we can't all go do our thing. So they're agreeing on standards, they're doing some really good stuff. >> And obviously we know from the cloud game now go back to the enterprises, more consumer, backing in from the edge, obviously the edge being devices and other things, I get that. But now the horizontally scalable nature of the cloud is the holy grail, we've seen Amazon's success continue to boom, they do more compute than any other cloud out I think combined. Maybe outside Google with their internal cloud. That horizontal resource pool, serverless as example trend, IOT, you got to have, the stovepipes got to be decimated. However, you need specialism at the application level. >> That's exactly right, and a smartphone will act a little bit differently from a camera which would be different from a refrigerator as we saw, right? Samsung wants the new meeting area to be, well not the new meeting area, we all meet in the kitchen, but the connected meeting area. So they all act differently, so they have to have even though they're different devices they have to connect into that horizontal cloud to make it efficient enough and effective enough for good responsiveness. >> I like the message of smart things, I think that's phenomenal, and I like that 'cause it connects their things, which are consumer things, and people like 'em, like you said very successful stovepipes. The question that I ask here and I try to get the execs to talk about it but they weren't answering yet, and I think it's by design. They're not talking about the data. Because again at the end of the day what's different from Alibaba again last week when I was in China, they are very up front. We're all about data acquisition and using the data to fuel the user experience. >> Right. >> That has to traverse across stovepipes. So is Samsung baked in that area, they have things going on, what's your analysis of data traversal across, is Bixby 2.0 the answer? >> So companies have to take, particularly consumer companies related to the cloud, have to have one or two paths. The one that says, we're not going to mine personal data to either sell you products or run ads, so Facebook, AWS and even Google, that's their business model, and then the other side you have people like Apple who are only going to use the data to make the products and experiences better. I think, I'll just pontificate here, the reason you're not getting a straight answer is I don't think they know exactly what they want to do yet. Because look at the market cap of Facebook. Apple, and even Amazon is planning to start and expand their own ad network. So I just don't think they know yet. Now what I would recommend to them is- >> Or they might not have visibility on it product-wise. So there's knowing what to do, or how to do it, versus the product capability. >> Well they have access to a ton of data, so if you're using Samsung Mail, if you're using, they know every application gets deleted, usage models of those applications. So they know a lot more than I think people think. They have a lot more data than people probably give them credit for. >> So they're going to hide the ball, I think they said that they're buying more time, I would agree with you there. Alright, question on IOT. Do you think that hangs together, that strategy? Obviously security updates to chip-level, that's one thing, can they succeed with IOT in this emerging stovepipe collapse fabric that they're bringing out? >> So I need to do a little bit more research on the security and also their scalability. 'Cause if you're going to connect billions of devices you have to have scalability and we already saw what GE Predix did, right? They did an about-face and partnered up with AWS realizing they just couldn't handle the scale and the complexity. And the second thing is the security model and how things like RM Embed Cloud and the latest announcements from Intel which is how from a gateway perspective you secure this work. So I have to go do some research on this. >> And by the way it's a moving train, you mentioned the GE thing, great example, I mean let's take that example, I got to ask you about cloud, because let's talk about Amazon, Cloud Foundry. Cloud Foundry became this thing and Pivotal tried to take and shape it, now they're claiming huge success, some are questioning the numbers. They're claiming victory on one hand, and I hear record, record, record! But I just don't see any cloud on Cloud Foundry out there. >> Yeah and I think the reason is, PCF, Pivotal Cloud Foundry is a Fortune 500 thing. And if I compare Fortune 500 to startups and other people, there's not nearly as much activity in the Fortune 500 as there is with the startups and the cloud native companies. So I'm optimistic. >> So you're saying Pivotal Cloud is more Fortune 500, less cloud native? >> Exactly, exactly. >> How about Amazon, what's your take, I know you were on Power Lunch kind of, now you're on the Power Cube, our new segment that you just invented by being here. (laughing) What is the Amazon take, 'cause that Reinvent event's coming up, what's the preview? Obviously we're going to have some one on ones with Jassi and the team beforehand, theCUBE will be there with two sets to come on if you're going to be there I'd love to have you on. >> I'd love to. >> Again, what's the preview for AWS Reinvent? >> AWS right, they had a seven-year headstart on almost everybody and then Azure and GCP just recently jumped in, and if you notice over the past year they've been firing canons at each other. One vendor says hey, I do by the minute pricing, and then another one says, oh, I have the by-the-second pricing, right, and I'm going to accept VMWare, oh no I'm not doing VMWare, I'm doing SAP. So what you have now is a feature fest and a fistfight now. AWS is no longer the only man standing here. So what I'm expecting is they are going to come in and make the case that, okay, we still are the best choice not just for IAS but also for PAS, okay? Because they have a lot of competition. And also I think they're going to fill in gaps in some of the regional services where oh they don't have GPUs in a certain country. Oh, I don't have FPGAs over here. I think they're going to fill that in to look better against GCP and Azure. >> I know you cover Intel as well, I was just over there and saw some of the folks there, I saw some of the Linux Foundation folks, obviously you're seeing Intel be more a computing company, not a chip company anymore, they have that Five-G end to end UK Mind and Mobile World Congress, talked a little bit about Five-G. End-to-end is big message here at Samsung, how is Intel positioned in all this, what's your take on Intel? >> Yes so I think related to Intel, I think in some areas they're competitors, because they have their own gateway solutions, they don't have cloud solutions but they have the gateway solutions. Regarding to some of the endpoints, Intel has exited the small cork endpoints in watches, so I would say right now there's less overlap with Intel now. >> From Samsung perspective? >> Exactly, now on the back end it's more than likely there's a 99% chance that the back end doing the cloud processing is going to be Intel. >> If I'm Samsung, why wouldn't I want to partner within Samsung? 'Cause they make their own chips, is that the issue or is it more a...? >> No, I think Samsung up until this point hasn't taken a lot of responsibility for the cloud. So this is a first step, and I think it would make a good partnership. >> And Intel could get the home theater market, the home, how connected home is, but every CES going back 10 years has been a connected home theme. Finally they could get it here. >> That's right, and I have seen Intel get into things, a lot of Amazon's products with the cameras in the bedroom and in the bathroom, scary stuff. But Movidius, silicon that's doing object recognition, that is a place where I think they compete which frankly Samsung could develop the silicon but they just don't have it. Silicon doesn't have capability that a Movidius has. That can be used in any type of camera. >> Okay so final question I know we got to break here and I appreciate you coming on, making room for you, PowerCUBE segment here in San Francisco at SDC 2017. Ecosystem, we hear the host of SDC, Thomas Coe, come up and saying we're going to be honest and transparent to the community here at large in San Francisco and around the globe, kind of incurring that they've been kind of stovepiped and they're going to open up, they believe in open cloud, open IOT, and he talks about ecosystem, I'm not seeing a lot of ecosystem partners around here. What does Samsung need to do to, well first of all, what's your letter grade on the ecosystem and certainly they got an opportunity. What moves should they be making to build a robust healthy ecosystem, because we know you can't do it end to end without support in the white spaces. >> Yeah so I go to a lot of the developer conferences, whether it's Microsoft Build, Apple WWDC, and even the enterprise ones, and this is a smaller, low-key event and I think first and foremost, operating system drives a lot of the ecosystem. And other than Tizen they don't have an operating system. So what they're doing is they're working on the connectedness of it, which is a different kind of ecosystems, it's farther up in the stack, but I think what they can do is they have to be very clear and differentiated and I think back to our earlier, our first conversation, they're not going to mine the data, therefore they're the safe place for you, consumer and our smart things ecosystem, to put your data. And we're going to help you make money to do that, because I don't think Google is as interested in that and I don't think Amazon is as interested in that either. >> They were clear, they said permission-based and even if they don't know what their permission is offering we're going to take the conservative route and protect the data, but they still got to use the data. They got to get their cloud story together, if they want to do the data play, cloud has to be more clear at least in my mind. >> Well I think what they can do is they're sitting on and they will sit on a bigger treasure trove of data that can help their partners deliver better experiences and products, because if you're at the epicenter and you're at that smart things hub? You know everything that's going on in that home whether it's your stuff or your partner's stuff. >> Yeah and they got to be trusted, and they got to be transparent, okay. Patrick Moorhead from Moorhead Insights here on theCUBE, great analyst, follow him everywhere on Twitter, your Twitter handle is, let me just get the Twitter handle. >> It's @patrickmoorhead. >> Okay, @patrickmoorhead on Twitter. He travels the world, gets the data and so does theCUBE, traveling for you, this is John Furrier. More after this short break. (electronic beats)

>> Man's Voice: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE covering ServiceNow Knowledge17, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to Orlando, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract a signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, Jeff Frick. This is theCUBE's fifth year covering Knowledge. We started in Las Vegas, a little small event, Jeff, at Aria Hotel, and it's exploded from 3,500 all the way up to 15,000 people here in Orlando at the Convention Center. This is day two of our three day coverage. And, we heard this morning, you know, day one was the introduction of the new CEO, John Donahoe, taking over the reins for Frank Slootman. And, actually it was interesting, Jeff. Last night, we went around to some of the parties and talked to some of the folks and some of the practitioners. It was interesting to hear how many people were saying how much they missed Fred. >> Right, right. >> And the culture of fun and kind of zaniness and quirkiness that they sort of have, and there's some of that that's maintained here. We saw that in the keynotes this morning, and we'll talk about that a little bit, but what are your impressions of sort of that transition from, you know, really the third phase now we're into of ServiceNow leadership? >> Right, well as was commented again last night at some of the events, you know, a relatively peaceful transition, right. So, the difference between an evolution and a revolution is people die in revolutions. This was more of an evolution. It was an organized handoff, and a lot of the product leaders are relatively new. We just saw CJ Desai. He said he's only 100 days ahead of where John is at 45 days. So, it is kind of a, I don't know if refresh is the right word, but all new leadership in a lot of the top positions to basically go from, as been discussed many times, from kind of the one billion dollar mark to the four billion dollar mark, and then, of course, onward to the 10. So, it sounds like everyone is very reverent to the past, and Fred has a huge following. He's one of our favorite guest. The guy's just a super individual. People love him. That said, you know, it's a very clear and focused move to the next stage in evolution of growth. >> Well, I think that, you know, Fred probably, I mean, he may have said something similar to this either in theCUBE or sort of in back channel conversations with us, is, you know, ServiceNow, when they brought in Frank Slootman, it needed adult supervision. And, Fred doesn't strike me as the kind of person that's going to be doing a lot of the, you know, HR functions and performance reviews and stuff. He wants to code, right. I mean, that was his thing. And, now, we're seeing sort of this next level of ascension for ServiceNow, and you seen the advancement of their product, their platform. So this morning, CJ Desai kicked off the keynotes. Now, CJ Desai was an executive in the security business. He was an executive at EMC, hardcore product guy. He's a hacker. You heard him this morning saying when he was at a previous company, he didn't mention EMC, but that's what he was talking about, I'm pretty sure. They use ServiceNow, and when ServiceNow started recruiting him, he said I opened up an instance and started playing around with it, and see if I could develop an app, and I was amazed at how easy it was. And, they started talking to some of the customers and seeing how passionate they were about this platform, and it became an easy decision for him to, you know, come and run. He's got a big job here. He run, he's basically, you know, manages all products, essentially taking over for Fred Luddy and, you know, Dan McGee as a chief operating officer even though he hasn't used that title 'cause he's a product guy. But, all the GMs report up into him, so he is the man, you know, on top of the platform. So, he talked this morning about Jakarta, the announcement, and the key thing about, you know, that I'm learning really in talking to ServiceNow over the years, is they put everything in the platform, and then the business units have to figure out how to leverage that new capability, you know, whether it's machine learning or AI or some kind of new service catalog or portal. The business units, whether it's, you know, the managers, whether it's Farrell Hough and her team, she does IT service management, Abhijit Mitra who does customer service management, the IT operations management people, the HR folks, they have to figure out how they can take the capabilities of this platform, and then apply it to their specific use cases and industry examples. And, that's what we saw a lot of today. >> But, it's still paper-based workflow, right? 'Cause back to Fred's original vision, which I love repeating about, the copy room with all the pigeonholes of colored paper that you would grab for I need a new laptop, I need a vacation request, I need whatever, which nobody remembers anymore. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's put in a request, get it approved, does it need to be worked, and then executed. So, whether that's asking for a new laptop for a new employee, whether that's getting a customer service ticket handled, whether it's we're swinging by doing name changes, it's relatively simple process under the covers, and then now, they're just wrapping it with this specific vocabulary and integration points to the different systems to support that execution. So, it's a pretty straightforward solution. What I really like about ServiceNow is they're applying, you know, technology to relatively straightforward problems that have huge impact and efficiency, and just getting away from email, getting away from so many notification systems that we have, getting away from phone calls, getting away from tech-- Trying to aggregate that into one spot, like we see it a lot of successful applications, sass applications. So, now you've got a single system of record for the execution of these relatively straightforward processes. >> Yeah, it really is all about a new way to work, and with the millennial work force becoming younger, obviously, they're going to work in a different way. I saw, when I tweeted out, was the best IT demo that I'd ever seen. Didn't involve a laptop, didn't involve a screen. What Chris Pope did, who's kind of an evangelist, he's in the CSO office, he was on... the chief strategy office, he was on yesterday. He came up with a soccer ball. Right, you saw it. And, he said >> Football. Make sure you say it right. He would correct you. (Jeff laughs) >> And, he said for those of you who are not from the colonies, this is a football. And then, he had somebody in a new employee's t-shirt, he had the HR t-shirt, the IT t-shirt, the facilities t-shirt, and they were passing the ball around, and he did a narrative on what it was like to onboard a new employee, and the back and forth and the touch points and, you know, underscoring the point of how complex it is, how many mistakes can be made, how frustrating it is, how inefficient it is, and then, obviously, setting up conveniently the morning of how the workflow would serve us now. But, it was a very powerful demo, I thought. >> Well, the thing that I want to get into, Dave, is how do you get people to change behavior? And, we talk about it all the time in theCUBE. People process in tech. The tech's the easy part. How do you change people's behavior? When I have to make that request to you, what gets me to take the step to do it inside of service now versus sending you that email? It seems to me that that's the biggest challenge, and you talk about it all the time, is we get kind of tool-creep in all these notification systems and, you know, there's Slack and there's Atlassian JIRA and there's Salesforce and there's Dropbox and there's Google Docs and, you know, the good news is we're getting all these kind of sass applications that, ultimately, we're seeing this growth of IPA's in between them and integration between them, but, on the bad side, we get so many notifications from so many different places. You know, how do you force really a compliance around a particular department to use a solution, as we say that, that's what's on your desk all the time, and not email? And, I think that's, I look forward to hearing kind of what are best practices to dictate that? I know that Atlassian, internally, they don't use email. Everything is on JIRA. I would presume in ServiceNow, it's probably very similar where, internally, everything is in the ServiceNow platform, but, unfortunately, there's those pesky people outside the organization who are still communicating with email. So, then you get, >> Exactly. >> Then, now, you're running kind of a parallel track as you're getting new information from a customer that's coming in maybe via email that you need to, then, populate into those tickets. That's the part I see as kind of a challenge. >> Well, I think it is a big challenge. And, of course, when you talk to ServiceNow people privately and you say to them, "Have you guys eliminated email?" Then, they roll their eyes and "I wish." (Jeff chuckles) But, I would presume their internal communications, as you say, are a lot more efficient and effective. But, you know, it's a Cloud app, and Cloud apps suffer from latency issues. And, it's like when you go into a Cloud app, you know, you log in. A lot of times, it logs you out just for security reasons, so you got to log back in and you get the spinning logo for awhile. You finally get in and then, you got to find what you want to do, and then you do it. And, it's a lot slower just from an elapse time standpoint than, actually not from an elapse time. So, from an initiation standpoint, getting something off your desk, it's slower. The elapse time is much more efficient. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> And so, what I think ends up happening is people default to the simple email system. It's a quick fix. And then, it starts the cycle of hell. But, I think you're making a great point about adoption. How do you improve that adoption? One of the things that ServiceNow announced this morning, is that roughly 30% improvement in performance, right. So, people complain about performance like any Cloud-based application, and it's hard. You know, when you even when you use, you know, look at LinkedIn. A lot of times, you get a LinkedIn request, and you go, "I'll check it later." You don't want to go through the process of logging in. Everybody's experienced that. It's one of those >> Right, right. >> Sort of heavy apps, and so, you just say, "Alright, I'll figure it out later." And, Facebook is the same thing. And, no doubt, that ServiceNow, certainly Salesforce, similar sort of dynamics 'cause it's a Cloud-based app. And so, hitting performance hard, as you say, the culture of leaving it on your desk. The folks at Nutanix, Dheeraj is telling me they essentially run their communications in Slack. (chuckles) and so, >> Right. >> You know, they'll hit limits there, I'm sure, as well, but everybody's trying to find a new way to work, and this is something that I know is a passion of yours, because the outcome is so much better if you can eliminate email trails and threads and lost work. >> Right. And, we're stuck now in this, in the middle phase which is just brutal 'cause you just get so many notifications from so many different applications. How do you prioritize? How do you keep track? Oh my God, did you ping me on Slack? Did you ping me on a text? Did you ping me on a email? I don't even know. The notification went away, went off my phone. I don't even know which one it came through its difficulty. The good news is that we see in sass applications and, again, it's interesting. Maybe just 'cause I was at AWS summit recently. I just keep thinking AWS, and in terms of the efficiency that they can bring to bear, that resources they can bring to bear around CP utilization, storage utilization, security execution, all those things that they can do as a multi-vendor, Cloud-based application, and apply to their Cloud in support of their customers on their application, will grow and grow and grow, and quickly surpass what most people would do on their own 'cause they just don't have the resources. So, that is a huge benefit of these Cloud-based applications and again, as the integration points get better, 'cause we keep hearin' it 'cause you got some stuff in Dropbox, you got some stuff in Google Docs, you got some stuff in Salesforce. That's going to be interesting, how that plays out, and will it boil back down to, again, how many actual windows do you have open that you work with on your computer. Is it two? Is it three? Is it four? Not many more than that, and it can't be. >> Yeah, so today here at Knowledge, it's a big announcement day. You're hearing from all the sort of heads of the businesses. Jakarta is the big announcement. That's the new release of the platform. Kingston's coming, you know, later on this year. ServiceNow generally does two a year, one in the spring summer, one in the fall, kind of early winter. And, Jakarta really comprises performance improvement, a new security capability where, I thought this was very interesting, where you have all these vendors that you're trying to interact with, and you tryin' to figure out, okay, "What do I integrate with "in terms of my third party vendors, and who's safe?" You know, and "Do they comply "to my corpoetics?" >> Right, right. >> And, ServiceNow introducing a module in Jakarta which going to automate that whole thing, and simplify it. And then, the one, the big one was software asset management. Every time you come to a conference like Knowledge, and you get this at Splunk too, the announcements that they make, they're not golf claps. You'd get hoots and woos and "Yes" and people standing up. >> Jeff: That was that and that was the one, right? >> Software SM Management was the one. >> Jeff: (chuckles) put a big star on that one. >> Now, let's talk about this a little bit because they mentioned in, they didn't mention Oracle, but this is a bit pain point of a lot of Oracle customers, is audits, software audits. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> And, certainly Oracle uses software audits as negotiating leverage, and clients customers don't really know what they have, what the utilization is, do they buy more licenses even though they could repurpose licenses. They just can't keep track of all that stuff, and so, ServiceNow is going to do it for ya. So, that's a pretty big deal and, obviously, people love that. As I said, 30% improvement in performance. And, yeah, this software asset management thing, we're going to talk to some people about that and see what their-- >> But, they got the big cheer. >> What their expectation is. >> The other thing that was interesting on the product announcement, is using AI. Again, I just love password reset as an example 'cause it's so simple and discrete, but still impactful about using AI on relatively, it sounds like, simple processes that are super high ROI, like auto-categorization. You know, let the machine do auto-categorization and a lot of these little things that make a huge difference in productivity to be able to find and discover and work with this data that you're now removing the people from it, and making the machine, the better for machine processes handled by the machine. And, we see that going all through the application, a lot of the announcements that were made. So, it's not just AI for AI, but it's actually, they call it Intelligent Automation, and applying it to very specific things that are very fungible and tangible and easy to see, and provide direct ROI, right out of the gate. >> Well, this auto-categorization is something that, I mean, it's been a vexing problem in the industry for years. I mentioned yesterday that in 2006 with the federal rules of civil procedure change that made electronic documents admissible, it meant that you had to be able to find and submit to a court of law all the electronic documents on a legal hold. And, there were tons of cases in the sort of mid to late part of the 2000's where companies were fined hundreds and millions of dollars. Morgan Stanley was the sort of poster child of that because they couldn't produce emails. And, as part of that, there was a categorization effort that went on to try to say, okay, let's put these emails in buckets, something as simple as email >> Right, right. >> So that when we have to go find something in a legal hold, we can find it or, more importantly, we can defensively delete it. But, the problem was, as I said yesterday, the math has been around forever. Things like support vector machines and probabilistic latent semantic index and all these crazy algorithms. But, the application of them was flawed, and the data quality >> Jeff: Right, right. >> Was poor. So, we'll see if now, you know, AI which is the big buzz word now, but it appears that it's got legs and is real with machine learning and it's kind of the new big data meme. We'll see if, in fact, it can really solve this problem. We certainly have the computing horse power. We know the math is there. And, I think the industry has learned enough that the application of those algorithms, is now going to allow us to have quality categorization, and really take the humans out of the equation. >> Yeah, I made some notes. It was Farrell, her part of the keynote this morning where she really talked about some of these things. And, again, categorization, prioritization, and assignment. Let the machine take the first swag at that, and let it learn and, based on what happens going forward, let it adjust its algorithms. But, again, really simple concepts, really painful to execute as a person, especially at scale. So, I think that's a really interesting application that ServiceNow is bringing AI to these relatively straightforward processes that are just painful for people. >> Yes, squinting through lists and trying to figure out, okay, which one's more important, and weighting them, and I'm sure, they have some kind of scoring system or weighting system that you can tell the machine, "Hey, prioritize, you know, these things," you know, security incidence >> Right, right. >> Or high value assets first. Give me a list. I can then eyeball them and say, okay, hm, now I'm going to do this third one first, and the first one second, whatever. And, you can make that decision, but it's like a first pass filter, like a vetting system. >> Like what Google mail does for you, right? >> Right. >> It takes a first pass. So, you know, these are the really specific applications of machine learning in AI that will start to have an impact in the very short-term, on the way that things happen. >> So, the other thing that we're really paying attention here, is the growth of the ecosystem. It's something that Jeff and I have been tracking since the early days of ServiceNow Knowledge, in terms of our early days of theCUBE. And, the ecosystem is really exploding. You know, you're seeing the big SIs. Last night, we were at the Exen Sure party. It was, you know, typical Exen Sure, very senior level, a bunch of CIOs there. It reminded me of when you go to the parties at Oracle, and the big SIs have these parties. I mean, they're just loaded with senior executives. And, that's what this was last night. You know, the VIP room and all the suits were in there, and they were schmoozing. These are things that are really going to expand the value of ServiceNow. It's a new channel for them. And, these big SIs, they have the relationships at the board room level. They have the deep industry expertise. I was talking to Josh Kahn, who's running the Industry Solutions now, another former EMCer, and he, obviously, is very excited to have these relationships with the SI. So, that to me, is a big windfall for ServiceNow. It's something that we're going to be tracking. >> And, especially, this whole concept of the SIs building dedicated industry solutions built on SI. I overheard some of the conversation at the party last night between an SI executive, it was an Exen Sure executive, and one of the ServiceNow people, and, they talked about the power of having the combination of the deep expertise in an industry, I can't remember which one they were going after, it was one big company, their first kind of pilot project, combined with the stability and roadmap of ServiceNow side to have this stable software platform. And, the combination of those two, so complementary to take to market to this particular customer that they were proposing this solution around. And then, to take that solution as they always do and then, you know, harden it and then, take it to the next customer, the next customer, the next customer. So, as you said, getting these big integrators that own the relationships with a lot of big companies, actively involved in now building industry solutions, is a huge step forward beyond just, you know, consultative services and best practices. >> Well, and they have such deep industry expertise. I mean, we talked yesterday about GDPR and some of the new compliance regulations that are coming to the banking industry, particularly in Europe, the fines are getting much more onerous. These SIs have deep expertise and understanding of how to apply something like ServiceNow. ServiceNow, I think of it as a generic platform, but it needs, you know, brain power to say, okay, we can solve this particular problem by doing A, B, C, and D or developing this application or creating this solution. That's really where the SIs are. It's no surprise that a lot of the senior ServiceNow sales reps were at that event last night, you know, hanging with the customers, hanging with their partners. And, that is just a positive sign of momentum in my opinion. Alright, Jeff, so big day today. CJ Desai is coming on. We're going to run through a lot of the business units. You know, tomorrow is sort of Pronic demo day. It's the day usually that Fred Luddy hosts, and Pat Casey, I think, is going to be the main host tomorrow. And, we'll be covering all of this from theCUBE. This is day two ServiceNow Knowledge #Know17. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news. You can watch us live, of course, at thecube.net. I'm Dave Vellante, he's Jeff Frick. We'll be right back after this short break. (easygoing music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube covering Dell EMC World 2017 brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Welcome back here on The Cube, the Flagship broadcast of SiliconANGLE TV. We rap up our coverage today, day two of Dell EMC World 2017. We're live in Las Vegas. I'm John Walls along with Rebecca Knight and joining us now all the way from Tobacco Road Patrick Williams, who is the IT Infrastructure Architect at North Carolina State University in beautiful Raleigh, North Carolina. Patrick, thank you for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Tell us first of all, you know, academically, you're the first, somebody from that community that we have a chance to speak with over the past two days. What are you seeing here that you are going to find of interest that you might want to take back with you to Raleigh, that maybe you're going to put into practice? >> Right, so we're really taking a look at the technologies that we have in play, and there's been a lot of new announcements at the conference this year, so we have Unity Storage, we have Data Domain and there's been announcements pretty much across that product spectrum, so we've been looking, going to breakout sessions talking to the experts and trying to take a look at the technology and see how we can take advantage of the new features that are offered in our environment. >> So before the cameras were rolling, you were setting the scene a little bit and describing the kinds of data needs, security needs that you have for a busy, thriving, and large college campus. Can you lay that out for our viewers? >> Right so for a college campus, one of the biggest concerns is around security, so there's a mandate or desire, probably as part of the academic culture to be as open as possible because the goal is to exchange ideas and to share resources between the university and across our set of institutions. So contrast that with the reality that we have to maintain a high level of security now, so there's obviously a lot of incidents. We are a Google Mail university and as you know, there was recently an attack on Gmail, right? So one of the things that we've had to do is to say, "We're going to implement Two Factor Authentication. "We're going to develop a classification system "around how we assess and manage data," so depending on the category, there's different levels of security that are in put in place in our (mumbles) environment, while also trying to remain as open as possible. >> So you have a lot of competing interests, it seems, in trying to balance those interests, is how much of your job? >> 100%. (laughing) Yeah, so what I would say is that in order to be able to get proposals forward, I have to be able to make the case on all sides of the equation, so I have to make the correct academic case. I have to make the correct business case. I have to make the correct cultural case and if I can make those cases coincide, then we can succeed and move things forward and get proposals. >> 'Cause you're saying that at NC State, it's not central IT. You're in IT, but there are some more schools that have options, they can make their own decisions, and so I would think coordination, integration, are not barriers, but certainly challenges. >> That's right, so we are, we call ourselves a central IT group; however, there is no mandate for each of the colleges to use central IT services, so our goal is to create kind of a foundational set of services that the consumers then in come and build on top of rather than building their own resources and we like to see that grow kind of organically rather than to mandate it, use of central services, and we've actually had great success. So we've had a lot of resources to come back from the edge into the central folds and be able to grow that centrally, put a higher level of resiliency on top of those services and satisfy our customers. >> In terms of one of the challenges, though, cost is a huge one, and then making sure that things do come within budget and not a penny over. Can you talk a little bit about some of those obstacles and how you've overcome them? >> Right, so cost is everything for us. Our budgets have been flat for the past three years, but the demand for growth in capacity and existing environments and the demand for new services is ongoing. What we've been able to do is to work really hard on assessing our resources. We've implemented Cloud IQ a year ago when it was first announced to get a kind of a long-term view of our environment and kind of track our growth, and that has enabled us to put the right data in the appropriate tier and be able to maximize our investment and that's really helped us be able to continue to grow our environments as we move forward. >> When you're talking about the different clients or constituencies you're trying to please: you've got the students, the faculty, the administration, and the staff, what do students want, what do faculty want, and how do you give them what they want? >> That's right. So students, is really interesting because the student perspective has really changed over the past couple of years and it caught us off-guard. We have a pervasive data network on our campus. We have all the dorms wired. We have about 21,000 students total. About 8000 stay on campus. All those dorms were hard-wired, but we did not have wifi enabled in all the dorms and we survey students every year. Last year we surveyed them and we got very bad marks because that, even a jack was not enough for them. If you look at what you typically show up with now, how many devices have a hard-wired jack, none, right? So they show up with four devices. They couldn't use any of them on our data network and their response on the survey was, the one that I remember the most was, "Our lives depend on wifi," that was the quote. >> Of course. >> We, of course, immediately went and looked at how we roll out 4000 access points right away. We did that over a summer. That was able to succeed. We also have a very unique set of challenges in that because I mentioned that, we only have 4000 students, slightly more than that, that stay on campus. The majority of them move back and forth between classes so 10 AM when 5000 people walk by one access point. >> When they've just woken up. >> That's right. >> 10 AM. >> Or log in to check their email, et cetera. So those are unique challenges so what we had to do is what are the tools to track the application resources? What's normal application performance? What's a normal peak and what's a breakout that's outside of the normal, and how do we profile that and we want to be well ahead of the demand so that we can put those resources in place ahead of the need. >> So what do you do about the challenge of future deployments? Your budget's going to be somewhat constrained. You know your needs are increasing. You know your constituents have new and growing demand. So, I mean, tough nut to crack, isn't it? You're trying to make your cloud strategy. What are you going to do with that? The 4GG server coming on board now, how do you find, or how do you balance that from the academic perspective? >> You mentioned that and also I didn't mention that one of our data centers is aging and so on top of all that, we're also starting to see, put a strain on our data center resources. What we really hope to be able to do is to leverage some type of a hybrid cloud strategy. The challenge for us has been, what is our application profile? If you look at applications that are a great fit in cloud and applications that are not a great fit in cloud, the traditional backend applications, the core infrastructure applications are not necessarily a great fit, and so what we're trying to figure out is what is the best hybrid solution that will help you move our environment forward and still leverage existing resources. >> So looking ahead, what does the college campus of the future, the technology-enabled college campus of the future look like? Give us a picture. >> I think one of the best examples i can give is our Hunt Library, so we opened a new library on what we call our Centennial Campus a few years ago. It was designed from the ground up as kind of a new model of what does the next generational library look like because it's not, if you think of a library now, you don't think of a traditional, okay, here's a building and stacks and stacks and stacks of books. So they put the books off in a corner and there is a large robotic library that's designed to handle the books and the bulk of it is about collaborative spaces, so there are high-end collaborative work stations, consolidated areas. There are students that are in the design school. If you want to go and practice your DJ skills, you can do that there as well, so that's where things are really headed. >> So Patrick, before we let you go, my final question is, when are you going to beat Carolina and Duke at basketball? >> We're waiting, so we have that US Championship banners from the '80s and I'm tired of looking at that, so we're really looking forward to-- >> Those days are long-gone. >> Right. >> Right, Patrick Williams, NC State, thank you for being with us here on The Cube. Safe travels back home and continued success at Raleigh. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate the time. >> Alright. >> Good. That raps it up here on The Cube, day two is in the books. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning at 11:30 central time, that's 2:30 on the East Coast, for more interviews live from Las Vegas, until then. For Rebecca Knight, I'm John Walls. Have a good night.

(click) >> Hey, welcome everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. Well, it is an excited day and we're really happy to be covering big announcements coming out of Google Next today. And we wanted to get right down here to SAP Silicon Valley Headquarters and talk to Sam Yen and get his take on what's happening up in San Francisco today. So, first off, Sam great to see ya. >> Yeah, great to see you as well. >> So, Sam you are the Managing Director of SAP Silicon Valley. Obviously, you guys have a big presence in Philly, and a big presence here in Paulo Alto. And also the Chief Design Officer. So, let's just jump into it. So, Bernd Leukert was onstage with Diane Green this morning kicking off the Google Next Conference and talking about this new relationship between SAP and Google. >> I think, first of all, it's the trend in what the industry's happening right now. If you look at companies, companies are more and more willing to go to the public cloud in terms of helping them with their infrastructure needs. The market is actually really going to double between now and 2020. So, with that we have three major announcements that we announced today. The first one was SAP's flagship products running on GCP, Google's Cloud Platform. The first one is HANA. If you know anything about SAP, HANA's been our data processing engine, memory processing engine for the last number of years. It's our flagship product that we've been talking about. And that's now certified for GCP. The second thing is really more for the, it's still part of the first announcement, but for the development community bringing HANA Express which is a downloadable version of HANA that you can put on your laptop and really get to know what HANA's all about and see how easy it is to develop on top of HANA. So, that's now available on Google Cloud Launcher. Also, SAP's cloud platform is also going to be, we're working very closely together to co-innovate together with Google. The second part of the second announcement, is taking infrastructure as a service to the next level. SAP has always had a multi-cloud strategy offering customers choice in where they want to deploy on public cloud. And Google is now available from that perspective. But beyond just infrastructure to service, we want to partner with Google to take things like data privacy and protection to the next level by offering transparency over how customers monitor and understand what's going on from the governance, risk and compliance perspective on their information. The last thing, which is really exciting as well, is bringing together productivity tools together with SAP. Google's G Suite, things like Mail and Sheets and Hangouts and things like that, and making that integrate seamlessly into the SAP backend system. >> So, so many layers to these announcements. And thank you for laying it all down. The first one, just at a high level, is clearly enterprises are comfortable with public cloud. There's now more enterprisy software firm out there than SAP. And for you guys to really get together with Google and Google Cloud, that really shows that the conversation is no longer about, "Should I go to the cloud?" or "Is the cloud safe?" or "Is it appropriate for enterprise?" But enterprises are fully all in. >> That's definitely the trend. Customers are different in their journey but more and more we're seeing that. And the numbers that I talked about in terms of the investment and spend for public cloud is growing through the roof. At the end of the day, SAP from an SAP perspective, and also from a Google perspective, we want to provide as many options for customers as we can. And we think that by doing this we're providing the best potential solutions for where a customer thinks they need to be today and tomorrow. >> Right, and it's really about workloads, right? It's not even specifically about customers. 'Cause you guys still have Google Cloud, or excuse me, SAP Cloud, recently the HANA Cloud platform recently renamed. So, you still have your own cloud if they want their own kind of enterprise cloud that you're going to run for them. Obviously, they can run SAP on their own internal cloud now you're saying they can run SAP on Google's cloud. But it's really more workload and application and use case specific as opposed to a company. >> Yeah, and I think ultimately options for the customer in terms of their particular situation. Yes, SAP will continue to have our own hosting, our own cloud as well. But you also mentioned SAP Cloud Platform. So, there's many, many different ways from a platform as a service perspective, enterprise services that we provide from a SAP perspective running on Google's infrastructure. And also leveraging the Google services that they provide on their Cloud Platform as well. >> Right, another piece that you said kind of towards the end of many, many announcements happening today, is really the developer angle. Every show, we cover a hundred shows a year, and every one is fighting for the attention of the developer, and really trying to cater to the developer. 'Cause that's where the power is. And you want a robust developer ecosystem because that's what moves things forward. So, this is a pretty interesting announcement now that developers can basically download a version of HANA onto their laptop to have an appeal to help them develop more stuff for you. >> Yeah, and I think the broader statement here is we're combining the power of the SAP development ecosystem with the millions and millions of people also in the Google development ecosystem to build solutions for customers. At the end of the day, the power of your offering is really the power of your ecosystem. And it's kind of interesting, being here in a German company actually in Silicon Valley from an SAP perspective, enterprise seems to be the new black right now. There are more consumer brands that are looking at going into the enterprise. And SAP's starting to become more and more an on-ramp into the enterprise for these companies. >> And it's interesting because public clouds, traditionally, years ago weren't really thought of as a true enterprise solution or maybe test but you'd never run your production workloads. But clearly now that's going away. That said, there's a lot of very specific issues that you have to deal with with the enterprise security, compliance, the rules around the world that are different for data sovereignty, etc. So, you guys bring a real depth of experience in those areas to this new announcement. >> Yeah, I think that's the power of the partnership if you think about Google and the public cloud, the scalability, the availability, the reach of the Google public cloud and their expertise in terms of the infrastructure and the operations. And then you combine that with SAP's experience in terms of what works from a governance, risk and compliance perspective. We have an understanding both with customers and their needs. And also working with local governments and the policies that need to be in place. So, I think it's a beautiful combination of the two companies. >> Now, the next kind of big trend that cloud is helping even accelerate more is A.I. and machine learning and you know, we're kind of going to Phase Two of what was formerly known as Big Data and Hadoop and now were moving to a much more sophisticated version of that enabled by cloud. Obviously, Google's got a ton of expertise in machine learning and A.I. You guys have been doing it on the enterprise side. Again, coming together, one plus one makes three? >> Absolutely, this is one of the exciting things that we're also, we've also talked about and announced, that we are partnering with Google to really take machine learning to the enterprise use cases. There's so much information that's going through enterprise systems. More and more information as things like Big Data, and Internet of Things, and social things are bringing information in. This is really, really fruitful area where think there's a lot of collaboration. Also, from a design perspective, once you have this information, how do you expose this stuff to the users that makes sense and really amplify human capabilities when we're talking about all this technology. >> Right, so you're sitting 6,000 miles from Waldorf, 3,000 miles from Philadelphia. How does this change things for you? You said you've been at SAP for a number of years now. You're sitting in the heart of Silicon Valley. What does this mean to you, kind of personally, and to SAP's presence in Silicon Valley to do this partnership with Google who's just right down the road and clearly one of the main powers. >> Yeah, I think it really talks about the importance of SAP's presence here in Silicon Valley. Again, as an on-ramp into the enterprise. There's lots and lots of partners that want to expand their business and figure out how they can bring their services also to the enterprise. It's almost like consumerization of IT if you will. And really, that's SAP's purpose and reason for being here. >> All right, well Sam I'll give you the last word. Great event today. Really exciting but before we know it SAP Sapphire will be upon us. I presume you guys will keep working tomorrow and have something new and special for us in Sapphire. >> Yeah, Google and SAP, we're in it for the long term. This is just the beginning. And look out for exciting announcements coming in Sapphire as well. >> All right, super. He's Sam Yen, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (energetic, techno music)

live from austin texas it's the cube covering deli MC world 2016 brought to you by delhi MC now here are your hosts dave vellante and stu minimus welcome back to dell emc world at austin texas 2016 this is the cube the worldwide leader in live tech coverage dale skiffington is here sees the chief privacy officer at dell she's joined by nick koo koo koo roo was a vice president of big data practice at mastercard folks welcome to the cube thanks for coming on thank you having us very important topic a privacy security I like to talk to them as two sides of the same coin but Dale why don't you start it off tell us what you guys are talking about here at Delhi MC world thanks well oftentimes you're right privacy and security are two really different topics to talk about and Nick will cover a lot this afternoon about the importance of securing data in order to have a successful big data program but privacy is also a concern to our shareholders and stakeholders and that is privacy deals with what information do you collect what information how do you use that information and who to whom do you should with whom do you share it and that's a little different than securing the data and our regulators and our customers are getting increasingly concerned about those issues and so it requires some governance some thought to be put into those programs and that's what we're going to talk about today and it's interesting Nick because in 2006 when the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure enabled or required organizations to retain and produce electronic material it instantly became the notion that data was a liability and everybody wanted to understand okay when can i delete it when can I get rid of it and then when this big data mean occurred all of a sudden data becomes an asset in a big way even though it's always been an asset we know that but in a bigger way it was almost like a bit flip and it sort of changed the attitude is that a reasonable description and how did that affect how you approached privacy well part of it is is you're absolutely right he became an asset everyone started wanted to monetize the data that they were carrying because there were great nuggets that set inside that data so we started talking about security you know the original he's talked about personally identifiable information right and that's what everyone's at name address phone numbers you know you many email addresses but then it started to turn into as we started to bring other sources of data such as Facebook Twitter all that data that sits out there in social media together we started to realize other pieces of information needed to be secure as well so now you've broaden the way that you want to take look at security because all this unstructured data starts to come in where you can identify people through a picture a photograph through a twitter feed what you want to be able to say is how do I protect them as much as I protect someone's credit card or someone's personally identifiable name address and phone number tell what talk about your role at Adele it's interesting to have a chief privacy officer on a tail and now of course Delhi MC he opens up a whole new can of worms if I could say that yes so together with our chief information security officer who looks at the policies that procedures around securing data my team is responsible for the policies procedures and controls relating to the use of the data so you know in terms of the reason why our session today is called the ethical use of data is because the laws are lagging a little bit in terms of requiring certain things to be put in place about the use they're starting to develop but what each regulator has said in the US and Europe and elsewhere is they've given companies and technology companies a chance to put in good governance in place and they've asked the companies to put in internal review boards and an accountable responsible individuals in those organizations to make good decisions about the use of data and that's what a chief privacy officer helps the organization do develop the governance structure and help with the accountability of the use of decisions around using data so they obviously the big discussion going on like this inside of MasterCard and Nicki we're talking about everybody wants to monetize the data or figure out how data can help them monetize so how do you deal with that you know analytics and you know you guys talk about the creepy factor I always worried the Amazon knows more about me than I do you know what I'm out of something and I'm reordering and my patterns and and that's kind of creepy so how do you deal with that you know part of what we do and my side of the house is we anonymize the data in many cases for that type of analysis so we try to take that personally identifiable information out of the analysis so again I can we call it an autumn is a shin where we actually on the front end say I don't care who you are what I care about is your are your patterns and can I figure out what those patterns are to create affinities so by taking them out front end and anonymizing the data doing the analysis on it and then potentially at the back end our customers re identifying those people that we have anonymized on the front end that makes it a little bit better because it's no longer a creepy factor per se because when you work with someone like Dale and what the usage of that data is in many cases when you do that analysis it's doing it for the good of that person so that person either a gets a healthier lifestyle be gets to see the products and services that they want to see or want to be able to you know purchase or whatever so again for us it's been able to understand how we protect the individual as you look through the entire analysis string and that's what we do on the advisor size with our customers so that's cool but the chief marketing officer he or she lets you identify that individual you know the the customer of one you know that one-to-one personal interaction how do you square that circle well that's actually we work with the marketing team they always say that well we have a population of 5 million in our database and I want to look at all five minutes like yes you can look at all 5 million but anonymize them because most cases you're going to send us your data scientists and there's 20 or 30 data scientists that could be working on these five million to create your campaigns they don't need to know names phone numbers or addresses so secure the data so that you're not carrying identifiable information through the ecosystem only at the very end when you say out of that population of 5 million mr. marketer here's the half a million that have a high propensity to do what you're asking do is when you re identifier so at that particular point you haven't put 5 million people at risk you've actually put half a million people what you want them to do which is the propensity to purchase or the propensity to taking action so again at the end is when you re identify and say these are the number of these are the people we should be sending a mail or two or an email to or so an offer and that narrows the threat correct matrix if I use that term and and reduces the risk very much stuff to the consumer and obviously to the organization yeah and that's why when we work with people like our privacy officers it's what are you trying to do in the analysis so that we can understand that data usage because that becomes important with what the data is that's carried through the analysis phase you may not have to carry gender you may not have to carry ethnic background you may not have to carry and these other markers that could put someone as Anna you can identify someone with so if we can keep those out it's how you're using the data and the analysis at the end and to follow up on that you know so that's the what the privacy office does it works with the business when they are envisioning a particular use of data and application a product that's going to do some of these analytics we work with them to design that product to avoid some of these risks sometimes you can sometimes the answer is we absolutely need that personal information because that's the purpose of that particular project and in those cases then we look at did you have permission from the data subject to do what you want to do with the data and if not does the society good outweigh the risks and can you mitigate those risks in certain ways so that's the balancing act that we do and that's when we decide when it's past that creepy line or when it hasn't because my role within the company is to advocate for the data subject to make sure that their expectations are being met by Del I wonder if we can unpack another use case which is fraud detection which is advanced so rapidly in the last 10 years it used to be six months and you find maybe something happened you had a look at your own statements and now you're getting texts and very proactive but certainly a lot of information has to be accessible but it's very narrow in terms of the individual can you talk about that using yeah the one thing that we find from our customers are the people we work with when you talk about fraud people don't mind that you're watching because you're reducing their liability you're reducing someone from stealing that credit card from them or being able to run up charges so when you talk about protecting someone protecting someone's digitalpersona their wallet they're willing to give and take a little bit on what information they provide to you they don't mind that you know that Pam in austin texas today and then someone's trying to charge in you know guitar at the same day they understand that it's not a privacy issue but i want to ask you about the pendulum is kind of swung like I said it used to be it would take forever to find out if there was some kind of fraud and then it became like this flawed of false positives and and and it seems to be getting better and presumably it's because a big data analytics but I wonder if you could talk absolutely our fraud teams matter of fact at mastercard we work very hard to reduce the false positives because that creates a bad experience for both the user as well as the issue of that card right so what we try to do all the times you can continue to do learning machine learning the artificial intelligence how to reduce that as you also look at people's patterns is this person a professional traveler or always traveling so that goes into the algorithm which are take a look at a false positive around fraud do they buy these types of goods with their credit cards so going you start to look at the protection and you start to add those rules into it and you start to actually reduce it it's all about learning it's not just one and done those algorithms have to be constantly updated in real time in some cases so that you're constantly in a learning phase you're building models and iterating those models and that's always a challenge but I'd love to talk about that if we have time but but I wanted to ask you Dale talk about deep learning Michael was talking a lot about machine learning and deep learning and part of his visionary discussion this morning what's the role of transparency how do you guide your constituents in terms of transparency what are the guidelines how transparent when to be trans Aaron yeah that's a great question and you know transparency was where the privacy profession lived 10 years ago it was all about giving the consumers notice about why you're collecting the data and using it consistent with that notice and being very visible with privacy statements and you know there's lots of laws around that now where you have to give specific notices the problem with big data is the power of it is using the data in ways that you didn't envision when you collected the data and that is the dilemma for privacy and big data and that's where the privacy community is trying to develop some tools for organizations to do a balancing act of okay the consumer didn't know that when they gave you that data it was going to be used for this purpose but they're not it's good its tangential to that use so that would be an acceptable use but if it's going to so surprised the consumer that you're using the data for you really need to go back and get reap Reaper missioned and in some countries it's an opt-in permission I'm going to mix Pam law spam and do not call laws seem trivial doesn't it you were mentioning off camera that I think it's your CISO is participates in public policy through the Obama administration is that as that was it you say so it's part of our DNA is security and securing the data our CEOs made a tremendous commitment to make sure that we can apply our best practices into and help the community understand how to make sure the data is secure because that's a digital persona we consider ourselves to be stewards of data not owners of data someone has entrusted us with that we want to make sure that we're constantly contributing back how to make sure it's secure and used right as we take a look at that how about regional nuances local laws haha describe sort of what you're seeing there how you address those complexities yeah so a good example is the new European regulation that's going into effect may of 2018 that has a new specific requirement about profiling automated decision that's used for marketing purposes you have to have an opt-in for using that data companies are going to struggle with how to implement that but nonetheless it's a new law and that law has four percent of annual revenue as a potential penalty Wow so it may get this straight you have to opt-in to be automated profiled automated profiling where it's going to be used for certain types of purposes decisions and you know what they're really trying to avoid is the things that the Obama administration came out with a big data report as well discrimination decisions that are made about insurance and credit etc that are automated decisions and then marketing decisions on those you know with that data the law now requires very specific opt-in and and transparency boy that's going to be tricky yeah the other thing for us is which was just described as working with people is the ability to tag that data as it's being brought in so as you think a big day that ingestion that tagging of that data and carrying the metadata what types of data needs to be tagged what types of data you have to be watching out for was it an opt-in versus an opt-out all that adds into understanding the power of what big data can do to protect both the individual and the company from being able to do something wrong with information so the nice part is with big data you can do that so again we're working with our customers and with the privacy officers understand how you do your data classifications what data needs to be tagged and then to be able to follow that full lineage through the entire ecosystem and obviously that has to be done at the point of creation correct otherwise it's it's not going to scale and and technology helps you solve that problem and that's been a challenge for years but it's a day where that actually works now yeah there's a lot of great partners and we're here at you know Dell world WMC world and they're here as well to help on that ingestion of data as it's coming in to start to tag it and to start to index and catalog it if that's the power of what big data can help you with because before you had to do it individually now you can actually use the tools you can use AI to actually understand about that information coming in to do that tagging to create that lineage it's very very important and very powerful especially as we start looking at what's coming down the road till you get involved in in helping guide solutions is that sir we have a process that is called the privacy impact assessment process and it's in the life cycle development of our products and services so much like the security reviews that are done when we when we commercialize a product we now are interjecting ourselves with a privacy review so if that project or product development or application is intending to use big data analytics as part of it we will we will help guide the business whether they need to build in opt-in consents what it is that what do they want to do with the product and what kinds of things are from a compliance perspective there do they need to build in so that we are at the table with our business partners all right we got a rep and Nick I'll give you the last word to mean so festive as the big data analytics I'll call you a visionary you know what's the future hold where's your focus in the next you know near the midterm you know under stay right with the ethics world and and probably always tell people what we're asking now is just because you have the data doesn't mean you have to use the data just because you have that information you've got to become a parent and start to be able to put some parameters around how that data is use so people in the privacy world you need to bring them to the table so again just because you have it doesn't mean you should be using it and now it's better to be a parent then just let people run crazy right Nick Goodell thanks very much for coming too i love this conversation is fascinating thank you for working do all right keep right to everybody will be back this is dell emc world from Austin Texas this is the cube right back