(dramatic music) >> Hi I'm Peter Burris, and welcome to another CUBE Conversation from our wonderful Palo Alto studios in beautiful Palo Alto, California. Another great conversation today, this one's especially interesting to me, we've got Tiffani Bova who's the Global Growth and Innovation Evangelist of Salesforce. Just written a book, great book by the way, Growth IQ, I guess it's coming out later in August of 2018. But Tiffani, I want to talk a little bit about something that seems near and dear to your heart, the notion of customer engagement and how that gets turned into business strategy. So, let's start there. What is, in your two and half years at Saleforce, what have you learned about customer engagement and how actionable is it, really? >> Well, you know, Peter, it's a great question 'cause I'd say this, you know, I thought I knew the answer to that question when I stated two and a half years ago and I've had the wonderful pleasure of spending time with customers of ours around the world and now I have a different perspective on what that is. You know, Clayton Christensen wrote that new book, Competing Against Luck and it was all about, sort of, the job that you have to do, right? You're going to go from point A to point B, are you going to catch a taxi or you going to catch an Uber. And what makes the difference if the job is the same, regardless of what you're doing. In my mind, right, it's the experience or the engagement that that particular driver or brand has with the customer that is riding in the back of the car, satisfying the need for the job that needed to be done. And when I started to shift my thinking around it's really this experience layer and this engagement layer of how easy is it, how friction, you could apply it to all kinds of industries now, you know. Whether it's meal delivery, or buying a book or buy, you know, software from someone like Salesforce or consulting or watching this show. It used to be you had to go and watch it live or you'd have to watch it on television, now we have very different ways and means in which you can be engaged. So that has been super exciting to me to see it live and in person as brands are really focusing on this importance of the way in which they engage with, connect with and inspire customers to do things with them as their brand of choice. >> So, as I said, Tiffani, I like the book and there is three or points that really want to draw out. I want to start with the first one though. >> Okay. >> Let's go back to this notion of engagement. >> Yes. >> You make the observation in the book and I also have some, a background, thinking about customer engagement, customer experience but you make a great point in the book that your brand is the promise that you're make to the marketplace. Customer experience is the customer side of the engagement. >> Right. >> It seems as though if there's a significant miss-match between those two, that's the first indication you've got a problem. If your brand promise and what is being experienced are not aligned, that says something, have I got that right? >> Absolutely and what's fascinating about that is many brands feel like they're totally aligned and then in mass, you know, research from all kinds of people whether it's McKenzie or Bain or Gartner or Forester or anybody else, you're seeing this disconnection where the brand thinks it's great and the customer's going, it's not that great. The gap between those two things, unfortunately, even with all the advancements with technology, I feel like it's getting wider, right? Because their still sort of, brands are still sort pushing out what they think is interesting and engaging and customers are going, it's kind of not so much. And so, this really a way and I really dug into it in Growth IQ of how brands can figure out, how do I get closer to that by starting with the customer and working their way back in. I mean, it's a long discussed topic of outside in versus inside out, it's nothing new there but now we have this advancements of technology that actually allow us to know what that outside in is telling us at scale, without having to throw people at the problem. >> Yeah, through data collection and other types of things. >> Absolutely. >> But it all starts with that impedance miss-match. >> Yes. >> And as you said, if businesses don't accept that they have a problem they're not going to change. But that is a measurable, actionable thing. >> Right. >> So, if nothing else, if nobody reads anything else out of the book, just that simple idea that it's not MPV, it's not, you know, other types of measures, your Net Promoter Score or other types of measures but it's, basically, is there that disconnect. So the second thing is is that you've observed how it can be made actionable. Now, you've come up with 10, a recipe, or let's call them 10 ingredients of different ways of thinking about what you might be able to do from a growth standpoint. Now, rather than going through all of them, let's just say that they're there but the thing that's interesting is you've come up with a general framework for how you can imagine putting those things together. You call it context combination sequence, what does that mean? >> It, I think it's, I, when I decided to embark on this journey of writing this book I said, you know, what do I feel has been missing, or what did I notice as a pattern as I was having conversations since I was traveling around and talking to customers. And it wasn't the decision that they make of how they were going to grow that was interesting, it was actually the fact that it was rarely in isolation. It was never a single answer to a very complex problem, it was a combination of a number of things. So, if you're going to launch a new product, like that's going to be your growth strategy, well, are you going to launch it yourself? Are you going to do it with partners? Are you going to launch it direct to consumer online or you going to go into retail? You have to then combine the fact that you want to launch a new product with other things to help you grow. Or if you you're going to say I want to reduce turn, it's not just, well, I'm going to lower a price because that's going to be a reason for people to stay, it's, well wait a second, are the platforms easy to use? Can people open a ticket easily? It's always in combination. >> Do I have visibility into whom I churn? >> And to whom I churn, right? But the first place people fail to start, let's to back to your original question of this gap between what customers expect and what businesses are doing is the context in the market has significantly shifted over the last decade. You could say, well obvious technology advancements but I think far more disruptive than technology is actually the customers themselves demanding more from brands. I want you to be better to the environment. I want you to be better socially. I want you to give me more value for what I'm spending. I want it as a service not as a product. I want it in a monthly bill not a one-time bill. I want to pay usage. Whatever they're saying, the customer has changed the context of the market. And I think that's one of the big triggers in this, so you start with context, what's going on, next is what are you going to combine those efforts with. And then the third thing and equally import is sequence. The order in which you do things actually has implications to the likelihood of success of whatever it is you're doing. If you're going to launch into a new market with a new product, and you don't have the infrastructure for distribution or selling or service in place before you launch the product, probably the wrong order. >> Right. >> Right and so if you need to set up the partnerships and the distribution and support and sales and marketing, support within region or translate things to language or do the things that you need to do to marketing materials or websites before you get there because if you launch, the first impression is gone if it's not a good experience for the customer. >> Yeah, you only have one time to make a first impression. >> You only have one time and it doesn't need to be perfect, but you cannot be just completely off the mark because getting them to come back is more expensive than it would of been had you just taken a pause, gotten it right and launched at the appropriate time. >> And that notion of context is also especially important because you identify something you call timing which is related to sequence in the fact that you have to be very honest about what you can and cannot effect. There are some things you may want to sequencing, you may want to fall the sequence. >> Right. >> But if the market isn't going to respond favorably, tell us a little bit about timing and how context shapes and resets prioritization as it changes as well. >> Yeah so, if you think of somebody like a Netflix, if Netflix had started with streaming and not with DVD mail, you know, in the United States at least, not everybody had bandwidth, it was too expensive, it was in very specific neighborhoods and as bandwidth started to make its way into the households and the cost started to decline, then they could say, well, wait a second, is this the best way to do it or could we potentially stream it and start doing OTT types of services? But they had to wait for the technology as well as the customer to catch up with what was possible. So, had they not done mail and started with streaming, maybe they couldn't of held on long enough. And so, mail was a great way to do, I'm going to capture these customers, I'm going to penetrate this base, get them to order more movies and do more things with me. Now I'm going to introduce streaming. Now I have this base of customers which now may want to transition to a new kind of delivery or experience that they want to have with us. And you might be surprised that they still have hundreds of thousands of mail customer including my mom, she still gets DVDs in the mail. And it's a huge profit engine for them, actually allows them to reinvest in the business to expand the streaming services other places in the world which may never get mail service, right. But in the beachhead of it and just let the customers churn out, never getting rid of it, not marketing it but not getting rid of it. So, had those timings been offered different, they may not have been as successful. So, it really has implications to think about what is the customer looking for, what is the temperature socially, what can technology help me deliver? Putting those things together and going, knowing what I know, I don't need it to be perfect but I'm willing to test it and fail and iterate and keep going as long as I keep that context of the market in mind and then the customer, you know, as sort of my true north of making sure that I'm aligning those things again, like we were talking about. >> So let me see if I can summarize that, so you got to get the context, which is-- >> Yes. >> What's really in the marketplace, customer, regulatory, competitor, all those other thing we think about. >> All those things. >> You think about the combination of recipes or combination of responses and then how you're going to sequence them out. Then that sequencing decision then goes back and says and what do I need to redefine about my understanding of context. >> That's right, that's right. >> So I got that right? >> You've got that right and I would tell you that-- >> So your avoiding boiling the ocean. >> Yeah, and that's what always, sort of, when I was trying to figure out what did I want to say in this book. I did not want it to be a boil of the ocean. I picked 10 paths to growth, none of which I think will be a surprise to anybody. It's a modernization on what Ansoff had done around the Ansoff four, there's that. There are things that now we have at our disposal which we didn't have at our disposal in 1957 when Ansoff came out. >> Yeah. >> I mean, so, you have to obviously introduce new things. So like, just using something like socially conscious enterprise was not something we were talking about 10 years ago. >> Right. >> But it's being used as a growth path now. And so, I wanted to try to give 10 very distinct growth paths so that people didn't feel overwhelmed by the hundreds of choices they could make. So if I could get it to something that was digestible and then say now, how do I put those things together. So I made natural associations between paths so that people would say, oh, if I'm going to do product and customer diversification, I might need to do partnerships. If I have a churn problem, I may need to optimize sales. Those two things fit together, right? If I'm going to, customer experience is at the foundation of everything. >> Right. >> Right, and so I tried to tell the story that people could say, oh, we're already on this path, should be stay on this path? Is it the right path? Should we be moving? Am I doing everything I could be doing to make this path be more effective? And that's what I was hoping to get out this is that I don't want people to think this is something completely flip the chessboard over and start from scratch. >> Right. >> I want you to pivot ever so slowly and make adjustments in real time so that you're not having to do, this is kind of an evolutionary versus revolutionary kind of transformation. >> Yeah, the strategies that seem to work today, or feature three things and kind of comes from Cluetrain Manifesto, agile, the empirical, they're based on data, they're optimistic, they identify what really can be done and their irritative, they take smaller steps when they do that. >> Yes. >> So, let me return back to kind of the notion of engagement, just for a second. >> Sure. >> One of the reasons why this book has so much prescriptive power is because there is a dramatic shift globally in market power. It used to be the sellers had the market power and therefore the information at your disposal that you used to make a decision largely came from the sellers and now, you're able to move into communities where buyers can come together and identify themselves in each other and use that source of information to help you make decisions. Very, very significant and profound shift and that's in many respects what's driving experience. Historically though, we've talked about sales and marketing alignment. (Tiffani laughing) About how we got to get the right message out, we got to enable sales in the right way. But customers spend most of their time with a brand in the form of a product or service which suggests that he whole notion of customer service and sustaining alignment between expectations and actuality in the customer service function becomes especially important. Have I got that right? >> You nailed it, I mean, I would say also you know, and I'm actually a practitioner before I was at Gartner, so I actually ran a division of Gateway computers, I ran sales and marketing for them. Before that I worked in web hosting company, we were the largest web hoster in the United States, we were actually four times the size of Rackspace. I was the beta client for ALOQUA, I was the beta client for Constant Contact. I was socially selling in 2000. Our shared property is web.com, if you watch golf. And so I was super early, so I'm actually a sales, I sort of say I'm a recovering seller, I bleed sales blood. (Peter laughing) And so when I was running both sales and marketing, I could argue with myself. But when I was just selling, you know, I understand this, you know, marketing giving us leads, sales not doing something with it. Then when I had customer service, you know, those three things together, I think today, is where companies really miss an opportunity. That just getting new customers in the door and it's so much more expensive to recruit new customers and to pay to get them versus just mining the gold you've already got. So, that is something that I'd say over the last two and a half years now that I'm here and I see it at scale that I will have conversations with CMOs and heads of sales and then the head of customer service is not in the room or it's just marketing and sales. So the same way marketing enables sales, they need to enable customer service. >> And, very importantly, the information that is being generated out of customer service-- >> Absolutely. >> Need to enable sales and marketing. >> Absolutely-- >> And in products. >> So I would tell you that in my opinion, the disconnection between what customers expect and businesses are doing actually is a manifestation of the unintentional consequence of the disconnection of teams because of the disconnection of metrics. Sales is very much, like how much did you sell? I mean, I'm over simplifying but how much did you sell. Marketing, how many leads did you, good or bad, how many leads? Customer service, how quickly did you get someone off the phone and how many calls did, tickets did you close today? Those three things pull those three groups in very different directions. So, something like a Net Promoter Score or churn or lifetime values, something can thread those three groups together in a metric so that people know that they're all in this together even though they play different roles. And so, I think the fact that people try to own customer experience worries me because I think the whole company has to be very focused on... >> It's a CEO job. >> But then it's a cultural shift, right? >> Absolutely. >> It's about culture, it's about this customer wants to have me help their problem but I have to get off the phone in two minutes because that's my quota and so do I get off the phone in two minutes or do I help my customer? >> Okay, let me make one quick comment and I'm going to ask you one last question. >> Yeah. >> And the quick comment I'll make is very prominent CEO of a very, very large computing company once said to me, I asked this person, 'cause I thought that they had won large because of marketing. And I said, so, tell me about he role of marketing within your company. And this person said to me, oh, marketing is what I put between engineering and sales so they don't kill each other. (Tiffani laughing) And I think that needs, obviously that orientation needs to change. But the last thing I wanted to talk about is one of the patterns you noted is disruption or disruptive-- >> Yes. >> I don't remember exactly what you called it but it boiled down, it could mean a lot of things, but you specifically focused on and you've already mentioned it, social good. >> Yep. >> As part of a strategy, give us a, you know 30 second, 44 second, why is social good becoming a viable strategy or viable pattern, one of the combinations that's working today? >> Well, I'd say, Salesforce was founded on the 1-1-1 model, which was very much about sort of this doing well by doing good, or doing good by doing good. But I would say this that even if you've watched television commercials over the last year, especially since Super Bowl last year, you'll see brands actually making statements about how they do well for the environment, how they're giving back, how they're hiring veterans, how they're doing things for... You know, Starbucks just announced they're going to- >> How they're willing to fly immigrant children home if they need to. >> Yeah, Starbucks is not doing a Starbucks in DC that will be signing so for hearing impaired. So you see people really making pivots and actually using that as I'm trying to connect with my constituency and my customer base in a new and different way. I love the fact that social consciousness is now getting into Unilever and getting into, you know the 1-1-1 model spread across 3,000 companies now. Or the Tom's model, one for one, buy a shoe, a shoe gets donated. You see it happening with a lot of start ups now where they're trying to start the company that way. Now, if you have a company that didn't start that way, there's not reason why you can't start to find a place where you can inject it going forward. But I'm super excited about that. >> Tiffani Bova, Global Growth Innovation Evangelist Salesforce, talking about the book Growth IQ. Again, great book. >> Thank you. >> Very prescriptive and I mean, I generally hate business books, lot of case studies. Thanks very much for being on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me, peter, it's been a pleasure. >> Absolutely, so once again, thanks for participating in our CUBE Conversation and until the next one, we'll see you soon. (dramatic music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Jose, it's theCUBE. Presenting: Big Data Silicon Valley. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone, we're here live at San Jose for Big Data SV, Big Data Silicon Valley. I'm John Furrier, cohost of theCUBE. We're here with two great guests, Jaspreet Singh, founder and CEO of Druva, and Jake Burns, VP of Cloud Services of Live Nation Entertainment. Welcome to theCUBE, so what's going on with Cloud? Apps are out there, backup, recovery, what's going on? >> So, we went all in with AWS, and late 2015 and through 2016 we moved all of our corporate infrastructure into AWS, and I think we're a little bit unique in that situation, so in terms of our posture, we're 100% Cloud. >> John: Jaspreet, what's going on with you guys in the Cloud, because we've talked about this before, with a lot of the apps in the cloud, backup is really important. What's the key thing that you guys are doing together with Live Nation? >> Sure, so I think the notion of data is now pretty much everywhere. The data is captured, controlled in data center, now it's getting decentralized into getting into apps and ecosystems, and softwares and services deployed either at the edge or in the Cloud. As the data gets more and more decentralized, the notion of data management, bead backup, BD discovery. Anything has to get more and more centralized. And we strongly believe the epicenter of this whole data management has to move to Cloud. So, Druva is a size based provider for data management. And we work with Live Nation to predict the apps not just in the data center. But, also at the edge and also the Cloud data center. The applications deployed in the Cloud, be it Live Nation or Ticketmaster. >> And what are some of the workloads you guys are backing up? That's with Druva. >> Yeah so, it's pretty much all corporate, IT applications. You know, typical things you'd find in any IT shop really. So, you know, we have our financial systems and we have some of our smaller ticketing systems and you know, corporate websites. Things of that nature. So, it's like we have 120 applications that are running and it's just really kind of one of everything. >> We were talking before we came on camera about the history of computing and the Cloud has obviously changed the game. How would you compare the Cloud as a trend relative to operationalizing the role of data and obviously GDPR, Ransomware. These are things that now with the perimeter gone. There's worries. So now, how do you guys look at the Cloud? So Jake, I will start with you. If you can compare and contrast, where we have come from and where we are going. Role of the Cloud. Significant primary, expanding. How would you compare that? And how would you talk to someone who says Hey I'm still in the data center world? What's going on with Cloud? >> Well, yeah, it's significant and it's expanding, both. And you know, it's really transforming the way we do business. So you know just from a high level, things like shortening the time to market for applications, going from three to six months just to get a proof of concept started to today, you know, in the Cloud. Being able to innovate really by trying things trying to... we try 20 different things, decide what works, what doesn't work. And at very low cost. So, it allows us to really do things that just weren't possible before. So, also, we we move more quickly because, you know, we're not afraid of making mistakes. If we provision infrastructure and we don't get it right the first time, we just change it. You know, that's something that we would just never be able to do previously in the data center. So to answer your question, everything is different. >> And as a service model's been kind of key. Is the consumption on your end different like I mean radically different? Like give an example of like how much time would be saved or taken to use other the traditional approaches. >> Oh for sure. You know, in the role of IT has completely changed because you know, instead of worrying about nuts and bolts and servers and storage arrays and data centers. You know, we could really focus on the things that are important to the business. You know, those things delivering results for the business. So, bringing value, bringing applications online and trying things that are going to help you know, us do business rather than focusing on all the minutiae. All that stuff's now been outsourced to Cloud providers. So, really, we kind of have a similar head count and staff. But, we are focused on things that bring value rather than things that are just kind of frivolous. >> Jaspreet, you guys have been very successful startup growing rapidly. The Cloud been a good friend that trend is your friend with the Cloud. >> What's different operationally that you guys are tapping into? What's that tail wind for Druva that's making you guys successful? And is it the ease of use? Is it the ease of consumption? Is it the tech? What's the secret to success with Druva? >> Sure, so, we believe cloud is a very big business transformation trend more than a technology trend. It's how you consumer service with a fixed SLA, with a fixed service agreement across the globe. So, it's ease of consumption. It's simplicity of views. It's orchestration. It's cost control. All those things. So, our promise to our customers is the complexity of data management, backups, archives, data production, which is a risk mitigation project. You know, can be completely abstracted by a simple service. For example, you know, Live Nation consumers, consumer drove a service through Amazon Marketplace. So, think about consuming a critical service like data management through simplicity of marketplace, pay as you go, as you consume the service. Across the globe. In the US, in Australia, and Europe. And also, helps the vendors like us to innovate better. Because we have a control environment to understand how different customers are using the service and be able to orchestrate better security pusher, better threat prevention, better cost control. DevOps. So, it improves the pusher of the service being offered and helps the customer consumer. >> You both are industry veterans by today's standards unless you're like 24 doing some of the cryptocurrency stuff that, you know, doesn't know the old IT baggage. How would you guys view the multi-Cloud conversation? Because we hear that all the time. Multi-Cloud has come up so many times. What does it mean? Jake, what does multi-Cloud actually mean? Is it the same workload across multiple Clouds? Is it the fact that there is multiple Clouds? Certainly, there will be multiple Clouds? But, so, help us digest what that even means these days. >> Yeah, that's a great question and it's a really interesting topic. Multi-Cloud is one of those things where, you know, there's so many benefits to using more than one Cloud provider. But, there are also a lot of pitfalls. So, people really underestimate the difference in the technology and the complexity of managing the technology when you change Cloud providers. I'm talking primarily about infrastructure service providers like Amazon web services. So, you know, I think there's a lot of good reasons to be multi-Cloud to get the best features out of different providers, to not have, you know, the risk of having all your data in one place with one vendor. But, you know, it needs to be done in such a way where you don't take that hit in overhead and complexity and you know, I think that's kind of a prohibitive barrier for most enterprises. >> And what are the big pitfalls that you see? Is it mainly underestimating the stack complexity between them or is it more of just operational questions? I mean what is the pitfalls that you've observed? >> Yeah, so, moving from like a typical IT data center environment to public Cloud provider like AWS. You're essentially asking all your technical staff to start speaking in a new language. Now if you were to introduce a second Cloud provider to that environment, now you're asking them to learn a third language as well. And that's a lot to ask. So, you really have two scenarios where you can make that work today without using a third party. And that's ask all of your staff to know both and that's just not feasible. Or have two tech teams. One for each Cloud platform. That's really not something businesses want to do. So, I think the real answer is to rely on a third party that can come in and abstract one of those Cloud complexities Well, one of those Cloud providers out. So, you don't have to directly manage it. And in that way, you can get the benefit of being multi-Cloud, that data protection of being multi-Cloud. But, not have to introduce that complexity to your environment. >> To provide some abstraction layer. Some sort of software approach. >> Yeah, like for example, if you have your primary systems in AWS, and you use a software like Druva Phoenix to backup your data and you put that data into a second Cloud provider. You don't have to an account with that second Cloud provider. You don't have to have the risk of associating without a complexity associated without that is I think is a very >> And that's where you're looking for differentiation. We look at venues, say hey don't make me work harder. >> Right. >> And add new staff. Solve the problem. >> Yeah, it's all about solving problems right? And that's why we're doing this. >> So, Druva talk about this thing. Because we talked about it earlier about To me we could be oh we're on Azure. Well, they have Office 365 of course they're going to have Microsoft. A lot of people have a lot going on and AWS. So, maybe we're not there at the world where you can actually use provision across Clouds, the same workload, It would be nice to have that someday if it was seamless. But, I think that's might be the nirvana. But at the end of the day, an enterprise might have Office 365 and some Azure. But, I got some mostly Amazon over here I'm doing a lot of development on and doing a DevOps, and I'm on-prim. How do you talk to that? Because that's like you got to backup Office 365, you got to do the on-prim thing, you got to do the Amazon thing. How do you guys solve that problem? What's the conversation? >> Absolutely. I think over time we believe best of breed will win. So, people will deploy different type of cloud for different workloads. Pete's has hosted IaaS or platform like PaaS. When they do that, when they host multiple services, softwares to deploy services. I think its hard to control where the data will go. What we can orchestrate or anybody can orchestrate is the centralizing the data management part of it. So, Druva has the best pusher, has the best coverage across multiple heterogeneous Cloud breed. You know. Services like Office 365, Box, or Saleforce or B platforms like S3 or Dynono DB through our product called Apollo or hosted platforms like what Live Nation is using through our Phoenix product line. So getting the breadth of coverage, consistency of policies on a single platform is what will make enterprises adopt what's best out there without worrying about how you build abstraction for data management. >> Jake, what's the biggest thing you see people who are moving to the Cloud for the first time? What are they struggling with? Is it the idea that there's no perimeter? Is it staff training? I mean what are some of the as people move from Test Dev and or start to put in production the Cloud? What are some of the critical things they should think about? >> Yeah, there are so many of them. But first, really, its just getting buy in, you know, from your technical staff because, you know, in an enterprise environment you bring in a Cloud provider it's very easily framed to hold as if we're just being outsourced right? So, I think getting past that barrier first and really getting through to folks and letting them know that really this is good for you. This is not bad for you. You're going to be learning a new skill, very valuable skill, and you're going to be more effective at your job. So, I think that's the first thing. After that, once you start moving to the Cloud, then, the thing that becomes apparent very quickly is cost control. So, you know, the thing with public Cloud is you know, before you had this really kind of narrow range of what IT could cost. Now with the traditional data center, now we have this huge range. And yes, it can be cheaper than it was before. But, it can also be far more expensive than it was before. >> So, service is sprawled or just not paying attention? Both? >> Well, you essentially you're giving your engineers a blank check. So, you need to have some governance and, you know, you really need to think about things that you didn't have to think about before. You're paying for consumption. So, you really have to watch your consumption. >> So, take me thorough the mental model of D duplication in the Cloud. Because I'm trying to like visualize it or grok it a little bit. Okay, so, the Cloud is out there, data's everywhere. And do I move the compute to the data? How does the backup and recovery and data management work? And does D Doup change with Cloud? Because some people think I got my D Doup already and I'm on premise. I've been doing these old solutions. How does D Doup specifically change in the Cloud or does it? >> I know scale changes. You're looking at, you know, the best D Doup systems, if you look historically, you know, were 100 terabyte, 200 terabyte, Dedup indexes, data domain. The scale changes, you know, customers expect massive scale in Cloud. Our largest customer had 10 perabyte in a single Dedup index. It's 100x scale difference compared to what traditional systems could do. Number two, you could create a quality of service which is not really bound by a fixed, you know, algorithm like variable lent or whatever. So, you can optimize a Dedup very clearly for the right workload. The right Dedup for the right workload. So, you may Dedup off of 365 differently than your VMware instances, compared to your Oracle databases or your Endpoint workload. So, it helps you that as a service business model helps you create a custom, tailored solution for the right data. And bring the scale. We don't have the complexity of scale. But, to get the benefit of scale. All, you know, simply managing the cloud. >> Jake, what's it like working with Druve? What's the benefit that they bring to you guys? >> Yeah, so, specifically around backups for our enterprise systems, you know, that's a difficult challenge to solve natively in the Cloud. Especially if you're going to be limited to using Cloud native tools. So, it's really it's a really perfect use case for a third party provider. You know, people don't think about this much but in the old days, in the data center, you know, our backups went offsite into a vault. They were on tapes. It was very difficult for us to lose those or for them to be erased accidentally or even intentionally. Once you go into the Cloud, especially if you're all in with the Cloud, like we are. Everything is easier. And so, accidents are easier also. You know, deleting your data is easier. So, you know, what we really want and what a lot of enterprises want. >> And security too is a potential >> Absolutely, yeah. And so, what we want is we want to get some of that benefit, you know, back that we had from that inefficiency that we had beforehand. We love all the benefits of the Cloud. But, we want to have our data protected also. So, this is a great role for a company like Druva to come in and offer a product like Phoenix and say, you know, we're going to handle we're going to handle your backups for you essentially. So, you're going to put it in a safe place. We're going to secure it for you. And we're going to make sure it's secure for you. And doing it software is a service like Druva does with Phoenix. I think is the absolute right way to go. It's exactly what you need. >> Well, congratulations Jake Burns, Vice President in Cloud services. >> Thank you. >> At Live Nation entertainment. Jaspreet Singh, CEO of Druva, great to have you on. Congratulations on your success. >> Thank you. >> Inside the tornado called Cloud computing. A lot more stuff coming. More CUBE coverage coming up after this short break. Be right back. (electronic music)