(ambient music) >> Good morning, everyone. Lisa Martin with theCUBE, live at the eighth Annual Women in Data Science Conference. This is one of my absolute favorite events of the year. We engage with tons of great inspirational speakers, men and women, and what's happening with WiDS is a global movement. I've got two fabulous co-hosts with me today that you're going to be hearing and meeting. Please welcome Tracy Zhang and Hannah Freitag, who are both from the sata journalism program, master's program, at Stanford. So great to have you guys. >> So excited to be here. >> So data journalism's so interesting. Tracy, tell us a little bit about you, what you're interested in, and then Hannah we'll have you do the same thing. >> Yeah >> Yeah, definitely. I definitely think data journalism is very interesting, and in fact, I think, what is data journalism? Is definitely one of the big questions that we ask during the span of one year, which is the length of our program. And yeah, like you said, I'm in this data journalism master program, and I think coming in I just wanted to pivot from my undergrad studies, which is more like a traditional journalism, into data. We're finding stories through data, so that's why I'm also very excited about meeting these speakers for today because they're all, they have different backgrounds, but they all ended up in data science. So I think they'll be very inspirational and I can't wait to talk to them. >> Data in stories, I love that. Hannah, tell us a little bit about you. >> Yeah, so before coming to Stanford, I was a research assistant at Humboldt University in Berlin, so I was in political science research. And I love to work with data sets and data, but I figured that, for me, I don't want this story to end up in a research paper, which is only very limited in terms of the audience. And I figured, okay, data journalism is the perfect way to tell stories and use data to illustrate anecdotes, but to make it comprehensive and accessible for a broader audience. So then I found this program at Stanford and I was like, okay, that's the perfect transition from political science to journalism, and to use data to tell data-driven stories. So I'm excited to be in this program, I'm excited for the conference today and to hear from these amazing women who work in data science. >> You both brought up great points, and we were chatting earlier that there's a lot of diversity in background. >> Tracy: Definitely. >> Not everyone was in STEM as a young kid or studied computer science. Maybe some are engineering, maybe some are are philosophy or economic, it's so interesting. And what I find year after year at WiDS is it brings in so much thought diversity. And that's what being data-driven really demands. It demands that unbiased approach, that diverse, a spectrum of diverse perspectives, and we definitely get that at WiDS. There's about 350 people in person here, but as I mentioned in the opening, hundreds of thousands will engage throughout the year, tens of thousands probably today at local events going on across the globe. And it just underscores the importance of every organization, whether it's a bank or a grocer, has to be data-driven. We have that expectation as consumers in our consumer lives, and even in our business lives, that I'm going to engage with a business, whatever it is, and they're going to know about me, they're going to deliver me a personalized experience that's relevant to me and my history. And all that is powered by data science, which is I think it's fascinating. >> Yeah, and the great way is if you combine data with people. Because after all, large data sets, they oftentimes consist of stories or data that affects people. And to find these stories or advanced research in whatever fields, maybe in the financial business, or in health, as you mentioned, the variety of fields, it's very powerful, powerful tool to use. >> It's a very power, oh, go ahead Tracy. >> No, definitely. I just wanted to build off of that. It's important to put a face on data. So a dataset without a name is just some numbers, but if there's a story, then I think it means something too. And I think Margot was talking about how data science is about knowing or understanding the past, I think that's very interesting. That's a method for us to know who we are. >> Definitely. There's so many opportunities. I wanted to share some of the statistics from AnitaB.org that I was just looking at from 2022. We always talk at events like WiDS, and some of the other women in tech things, theCUBE is very much pro-women in tech, and has been for a very long, since the beginning of theCUBE. But we've seen the numbers of women technologists historically well below 25%, and we see attrition rates are high. And so we often talk about, well, what can we do? And part of that is raising the awareness. And that's one of the great things about WiDS, especially WiDS happening on International Women's Day, today, March 8th, and around event- >> Tracy: A big holiday. >> Exactly. But one of the nice things I was looking at, the AnitaB.org research, is that representation of tech women is on the rise, still below pre-pandemic levels, but it's actually nearly 27% of women in technical roles. And that's an increase, slow increase, but the needle is moving. We're seeing much more gender diversity across a lot of career levels, which is exciting. But some of the challenges remain. I mean, the representation of women technologists is growing, except at the intern level. And I thought that was really poignant. We need to be opening up that pipeline and going younger. And you'll hear a lot of those conversations today about, what are we doing to reach girls in grade school, 10 year olds, 12 year olds, those in high school? How do we help foster them through their undergrad studies- >> And excite them about science and all these fields, for sure. >> What do you think, Hannah, on that note, and I'll ask you the same question, what do you think can be done? The theme of this year's International Women's Day is Embrace Equity. What do you think can be done on that intern problem to help really dial up the volume on getting those younger kids interested, one, earlier, and two, helping them stay interested? >> Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's important to start early, as you said, in school. Back in the day when I went to high school, we had this one day per year where we could explore as girls, explore a STEM job and go into the job for one day and see how it's like to work in a, I dunno, in IT or in data science, so that's a great first step. But as you mentioned, it's important to keep girls and women excited about this field and make them actually pursue this path. So I think conferences or networking is very powerful. Also these days with social media and technology, we have more ability and greater ways to connect. And I think we should even empower ourselves even more to pursue this path if we're interested in data science, and not be like, okay, maybe it's not for me, or maybe as a woman I have less chances. So I think it's very important to connect with other women, and this is what WiDS is great about. >> WiDS is so fantastic for that network effect, as you talked about. It's always such, as I was telling you about before we went live, I've covered five or six WiDS for theCUBE, and it's always such a day of positivity, it's a day of of inclusivity, which is exactly what Embrace Equity is really kind of about. Tracy, talk a little bit about some of the things that you see that will help with that hashtag Embrace Equity kind of pulling it, not just to tech. Because we're talking and we saw Meta was a keynote who's going to come to talk with Hannah and me in a little bit, we see Total Energies on the program today, we see Microsoft, Intuit, Boeing Air Company. What are some of the things you think that can be done to help inspire, say, little Tracy back in the day to become interested in STEM or in technology or in data? What do you think companies can and should be doing to dial up the volume for those youngsters? >> Yeah, 'cause I think somebody was talking about, one of the keynote speakers was talking about how there is a notion that girls just can't be data scientists. girls just can't do science. And I think representation definitely matters. If three year old me see on TV that all the scientists are women, I think I would definitely have the notion that, oh, this might be a career choice for me and I can definitely also be a scientist if I want. So yeah, I think representation definitely matters and that's why conference like this will just show us how these women are great in their fields. They're great data scientists that are bringing great insight to the company and even to the social good as well. So yeah, I think that's very important just to make women feel seen in this data science field and to listen to the great woman who's doing amazing work. >> Absolutely. There's a saying, you can't be what you can't see. >> Exactly. >> And I like to say, I like to flip it on its head, 'cause we can talk about some of the negatives, but there's a lot of positives and I want to share some of those in a minute, is that we need to be, that visibility that you talked about, the awareness that you talked about, it needs to be there but it needs to be sustained and maintained. And an organization like WiDS and some of the other women in tech events that happen around the valley here and globally, are all aimed at raising the profile of these women so that the younger, really, all generations can see what they can be. We all, the funny thing is, we all have this expectation whether we're transacting on Uber ride or we are on Netflix or we're buying something on Amazon, we can get it like that. They're going to know who I am, they're going to know what I want, they're going to want to know what I just bought or what I just watched. Don't serve me up something that I've already done that. >> Hannah: Yeah. >> Tracy: Yeah. >> So that expectation that everyone has is all about data, though we don't necessarily think about it like that. >> Hannah: Exactly. >> Tracy: Exactly. >> But it's all about the data that, the past data, the data science, as well as the realtime data because we want to have these experiences that are fresh, in the moment, and super relevant. So whether women recognize it or not, they're data driven too. Whether or not you're in data science, we're all driven by data and we have these expectations that every business is going to meet it. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. And circling back to young women, I think it's crucial and important to have role models. As you said, if you see someone and you're younger and you're like, oh I want to be like her. I want to follow this path, and have inspiration and a role model, someone you look up to and be like, okay, this is possible if I study the math part or do the physics, and you kind of have a goal and a vision in mind, I think that's really important to drive you. >> Having those mentors and sponsors, something that's interesting is, I always, everyone knows what a mentor is, somebody that you look up to, that can guide you, that you admire. I didn't learn what a sponsor was until a Women in Tech event a few years ago that we did on theCUBE. And I was kind of, my eyes were open but I didn't understand the difference between a mentor and a sponsor. And then it got me thinking, who are my sponsors? And I started going through LinkedIn, oh, he's a sponsor, she's a sponsor, people that help really propel you forward, your recommenders, your champions, and it's so important at every level to build that network. And we have, to your point, Hannah, there's so much potential here for data drivenness across the globe, and there's so much potential for women. One of the things I also learned recently , and I wanted to share this with you 'cause I'm not sure if you know this, ChatGPT, exploding, I was on it yesterday looking at- >> Everyone talking about it. >> What's hot in data science? And it was kind of like, and I actually asked it, what was hot in data science in 2023? And it told me that it didn't know anything prior to 2021. >> Tracy: Yes. >> Hannah: Yeah. >> So I said, Oh, I'm so sorry. But everyone's talking about ChatGPT, it is the most advanced AI chatbot ever released to the masses, it's on fire. They're likening it to the launch of the iPhone, 100 million-plus users. But did you know that the CTO of ChatGPT is a woman? >> Tracy: I did not know, but I learned that. >> I learned that a couple days ago, Mira Murati, and of course- >> I love it. >> She's been, I saw this great profile piece on her on Fast Company, but of course everything that we're hearing about with respect to ChatGPT, a lot on the CEO. But I thought we need to help dial up the profile of the CTO because she's only 35, yet she is at the helm of one of the most groundbreaking things in our lifetime we'll probably ever see. Isn't that cool? >> That is, yeah, I completely had no idea. >> I didn't either. I saw it on LinkedIn over the weekend and I thought, I have to talk about that because it's so important when we talk about some of the trends, other trends from AnitaB.org, I talked about some of those positive trends. Overall hiring has rebounded in '22 compared to pre-pandemic levels. And we see also 51% more women being hired in '22 than '21. So the data, it's all about data, is showing us things are progressing quite slowly. But one of the biggest challenges that's still persistent is attrition. So we were talking about, Hannah, what would your advice be? How would you help a woman stay in tech? We saw that attrition last year in '22 according to AnitaB.org, more than doubled. So we're seeing women getting into the field and dropping out for various reasons. And so that's still an extent concern that we have. What do you think would motivate you to stick around if you were in a technical role? Same question for you in a minute. >> Right, you were talking about how we see an increase especially in the intern level for women. And I think if, I don't know, this is a great for a start point for pushing the momentum to start growth, pushing the needle rightwards. But I think if we can see more increase in the upper level, the women representation in the upper level too, maybe that's definitely a big goal and something we should work towards to. >> Lisa: Absolutely. >> But if there's more representation up in the CTO position, like in the managing level, I think that will definitely be a great factor to keep women in data science. >> I was looking at some trends, sorry, Hannah, forgetting what this source was, so forgive me, that was showing that there was a trend in the last few years, I think it was Fast Company, of more women in executive positions, specifically chief operating officer positions. What that hasn't translated to, what they thought it might translate to, is more women going from COO to CEO and we're not seeing that. We think of, if you ask, name a female executive that you'd recognize, everyone would probably say Sheryl Sandberg. But I was shocked to learn the other day at a Women in Tech event I was doing, that there was a survey done by this organization that showed that 78% of people couldn't identify. So to your point, we need more of them in that visible role, in the executive suite. >> Tracy: Exactly. >> And there's data that show that companies that have women, companies across industries that have women in leadership positions, executive positions I should say, are actually more profitable. So it's kind of like, duh, the data is there, it's telling you this. >> Hannah: Exactly. >> Right? >> And I think also a very important point is work culture and the work environment. And as a woman, maybe if you enter and you work two or three years, and then you have to oftentimes choose, okay, do I want family or do I want my job? And I think that's one of the major tasks that companies face to make it possible for women to combine being a mother and being a great data scientist or an executive or CEO. And I think there's still a lot to be done in this regard to make it possible for women to not have to choose for one thing or the other. And I think that's also a reason why we might see more women at the entry level, but not long-term. Because they are punished if they take a couple years off if they want to have kids. >> I think that's a question we need to ask to men too. >> Absolutely. >> How to balance work and life. 'Cause we never ask that. We just ask the woman. >> No, they just get it done, probably because there's a woman on the other end whose making it happen. >> Exactly. So yeah, another thing to think about, another thing to work towards too. >> Yeah, it's a good point you're raising that we have this conversation together and not exclusively only women, but we all have to come together and talk about how we can design companies in a way that it works for everyone. >> Yeah, and no slight to men at all. A lot of my mentors and sponsors are men. They're just people that I greatly admire who saw raw potential in me 15, 18 years ago, and just added a little water to this little weed and it started to grow. In fact, theCUBE- >> Tracy: And look at you now. >> Look at me now. And theCUBE, the guys Dave Vellante and John Furrier are two of those people that are sponsors of mine. But it needs to be diverse. It needs to be diverse and gender, it needs to include non-binary people, anybody, shouldn't matter. We should be able to collectively work together to solve big problems. Like the propaganda problem that was being discussed in the keynote this morning with respect to China, or climate change. Climate change is a huge challenge. Here, we are in California, we're getting an atmospheric river tomorrow. And Californians and rain, we're not so friendly. But we know that there's massive changes going on in the climate. Data science can help really unlock a lot of the challenges and solve some of the problems and help us understand better. So there's so much real-world implication potential that being data-driven can really lead to. And I love the fact that you guys are studying data journalism. You'll have to help me understand that even more. But we're going to going to have great conversations today, I'm so excited to be co-hosting with both of you. You're going to be inspired, you're going to learn, they're going to learn from us as well. So let's just kind of think of this as a community of men, women, everything in between to really help inspire the current generations, the future generations. And to your point, let's help women feel confident to be able to stay and raise their hand for fast-tracking their careers. >> Exactly. >> What are you guys, last minute, what are you looking forward to most for today? >> Just meeting these great women, I can't wait. >> Yeah, learning from each other. Having this conversation about how we can make data science even more equitable and hear from the great ideas that all these women have. >> Excellent, girls, we're going to have a great day. We're so glad that you're here with us on theCUBE, live at Stanford University, Women in Data Science, the eighth annual conference. I'm Lisa Martin, my two co-hosts for the day, Tracy Zhang, Hannah Freitag, you're going to be seeing a lot of us, we appreciate. Stick around, our first guest joins Hannah and me in just a minute. (ambient music)

>> Narrator: From theCube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCube Conversation. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCube. We're still on our Palo Alto studios, we're still getting through COVID and we're still doing all of our remotes, all of our interviews via remote and I'm really excited to have a guest we had around a long time ago. I looked it up is 2016, April 2016. She's Coco Brown, the founder and CEO of the Athena Alliance. Coco, it's great to see you. >> It's great to see you as well. We actually formally started in April of 2016. >> I know, I saw, I noticed that on LinkedIn. So we were at the Girls in Tech Catalyst Conference in Phoenix, I remembers was a really cool conference, met a ton of people, a lot of them have turned out that are on your board. So yeah, and you formally on LinkedIn, it says you started in May. So that was right at the very, very beginning. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So for people that aren't familiar with the at the Athena Alliance give them the quick overview. >> Okay. Well, it's a little different that it was four years ago. So Athena first and foremost is a digital platform. So you literally log in to Athena. And we're a combination of community access to opportunity and learning. And so you can kind of envision it a little bit like a walled garden around the LinkedIn, meets Khan Academy for senior executives, meets Hollywood agency for women trying to get into the boardroom and senior level roles in the c-suite as advisors, et cetera. And then the way that we operate is you can have a self-service experience of Athena, you can have a concierge experience with Athena with real humans in the loop making key connections for you and you can add accelerators where we build brand packages and BIOS and give you executive coaching. So... >> Wow. >> Kind of a... >> You've built out your services portfolio over the last several years. But still the focus >> yes, we have. is boards, right? Still the focus is getting women on public boards, or is that no longer still the focus? >> No, that's a big piece of it for sure. I mean, one of the things that we discovered, that was the very first mission of Athena, was to bring more women into the boardroom. And as we were doing that we discovered that once you get into a senior realm of leadership in general, there's more things that you want to do than just get into the boardroom. Some of it may be wanting to be an investor or an LP in a fund or become a CEO, or certainly join outside boards but also be relevant to your own inside board. And so we started to look at Athena as a more holistic experience for senior leaders who are attempting to make sure that they are the best they can be in this very senior realm of overarching stewardship of business. >> Awesome. and have you seen, so obviously your your focus shifted 'cause you needed to add more services based on the demand from the customers. But have you seen the receptiveness to women board members change over the last four years? How have you seen kind of the marketplace change? >> Yeah, it's changed a lot, I would say. First of all I think laws like the California law and Goldman Sachs coming out saying they won't take companies public unless they have diverse board data. The statements by big entities that people are paying attention to made the boardroom dynamics a conversation around the dinner table in general. So it became more of a common conversation and common interest as opposed to just the interest of a few people who are trying to get in there. And so that's created a lot of momentum as well as sort of thoughtfulness from leaders and from employees and from larger stakeholders to say the diversity at the top business has to mimic the demographics of society as a whole. And that's become a little bit more accepted as opposed to grudgingly sort of taken in. >> Right. So one of the big problems always it's like the VC problem, right? Is the whole matchmaking problem. How do you, how do qualified people find qualified opportunities? And I wonder if you can speak a little bit as to how that process has evolved, how are you really helping because there's always people that are looking for quality candidates, and there's great quality candidates out there that just don't know where to go. How are you helping bridge kind of that kind of basic matchmaking function? >> Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of different ways to go about it. One is certainly to understand and have real connections into the parts of the leadership ecosystem that influences or makes the decision as to who sits around that table. So that would be communities of CEOs, it's communities of existing board directors, it's venture capital firms, its private equity firms, and as you get really entrenched in those organizations and those ecosystems, you become part of that ecosystem and you become what they turn to to say, "Hey, do you know somebody?" Because it still is a "who do yo know" approach at the senior most levels. So that's one way. The other mechanism is really for individuals who are looking for board seats who want to be on boards to actually be thinking about how they proactively navigate their way to the kinds of boards that they would fit to. I like in a very much to the way our children go after the schools that they might want to when it's time for university. You'll figure out who your safeties, your matches, your reaches are, and figure out how you're going to take six degrees of separation and turn them into one through connections. So those are that's another way to go about it. >> You know, it's interesting, I talked to Beth Stewart from True Star, they also help place women on boards. And one of the issues is just the turnover. And I asked that just straight up, are there formal mechanisms to make sure that people who've been doing business from way before there were things like email and the internet eventually get swapped out. And she said, that's actually a big part of the problem is there isn't really a formal way to keep things fresh and to kind of rotate the incumbents out to enable somebody who's new and maybe has a different point of view to come in. So I'm curious when someone is targeting their A-list and B-list and C-lists, how do they factor in kind of the age of the board composition of the existing board, to really look for where there's these opportunities where a spot opens up, 'cause if there's not a spot open up clearly, there's really not much opportunity there. >> Yeah, I mean, you have to look at the whole ecosystem, right? I mean, there's anything from let's say series A, venture backed private companies all the way up to the mega cap companies, right? And there's this continuum. And it's not, there's not one universal answer to what you're talking about. So for example, if you're talking about smaller private companies, you're competing against, not somebody giving up their seat, but whether or not the company feels real motivation to fill that particular independent director seat. So the biggest competition is often that that seat goes unfilled. When you're talking about public companies, the biggest competition is really the fact that as my friend Adam Epstein of the small cap Institute will tell you, that 80% of public companies are actually small cap companies. And they don't have the same kinds of pressures that large caps do to have turnover. But yeah, it takes a big piece of the challenge is really boards having the disposition collectively to see the board as a competitive advantage for the business as a very necessary and productive piece of the business and when they see that then they take more proactive measures to make sure they have a evolving and strong board that does turnover as it needs to. >> Right. So I'm curious when you're talking to the high power women, right, who are in operational roles probably most of the time, how do you help coach them, how should they be thinking, what do they have to do different when they want to kind of add board seats to their portfolio? Very different kind of a role than an operational role, very different kind of concerns and day to day tasks. So, and clearly, you've added a whole bunch of extra things to your portfolio. So how do you help people, what do you tell women who say, "Okay, I've been successful, "I'm like successful executive, "but now I want to do this other thing, "I want to take this next step in my career"? What usually the gaps and what are the things that they need to do to prepare for that? >> Well, I'm going to circle in then land a little bit. Autodesk was actually a really great partner to us back when you and I first met. They had a couple of women at the top of the organization that were part of Athena, specifically because they wanted to join boards. They are on boards now, Lisa Campbell, Amy Bunszel, Debbie Clifford. And what they told us is they were experiencing everything that we were offering in terms of developing them, helping them to position themselves, understand themselves, navigate their way, was that they simply became better leaders as a result of focusing on themselves as that next level up, irrespective of the fact that it took them two to three years to land that seat. They became stronger in their executive role in general and better able to communicate and engage with their own boards. So I think, now I'm landing, the thing that I would say about that is don't wait until you're thinking oh, I want to join a board, to do the work to get yourself into that ecosystem, into that atmosphere and into that mindset, because the sooner you do that as an executive, the better you will be in that atmosphere, the more prepared you will be. And you also have to recognize that it will take time. >> Right. And the how has COVID impacted it, I mean, on one hand, meeting somebody for coffee and having a face to face is a really important part of getting to know someone and a big part of I'm sure, what was the recruitment process, and do you know someone, yeah, let's go meet for a cup of coffee or dinner or whatever. Can't do that anymore, but we can all meet this way, we can all get on virtually and so in some ways, it's probably an enabler, which before you could grab an hour or you didn't have to fly cross-country or somebody didn't have to fly cross-country. So I'm kind of curious in this new reality, which is going to continue for some time. How has that impacted kind of people's ability to discover and get to know and build trust for these very very senior positions. >> HBR just came out with a really great article about the virtual board meeting. I don't know if you saw it but I can send you a link. I think that what I'm learning from board directors in general and leaders in general is that yes, there's things that make it difficult to engage remotely, but there's also a lot of benefit to being able to get comfortable with the virtual world. So it's certainly, particularly with COVID, with racial equity issues, with the uncertain economy, boards are having to meet more often and they're having, some are having weekly stand ups and those are facilitated by getting more and more comfortable with being virtual. And I think they're realizing that you don't have to press flesh, as they say, to actually build intimacy and real connection. And that's been a hold up, but I think as the top leadership gets to understand that and feel that for themselves, it becomes easier for them to adopt it throughout the organization that the virtual world is one we can really embrace, not just for a period of time. >> It's funny we had John Chambers on early on in this whole process, really talking about leadership and leading through transition. And he used the example, I think had been that day or maybe a couple days off from our interview where they had a board meeting, I think they were talking about some hamburger restaurant, and so they just delivered hamburgers to everybody's office and they had the board meeting. But that's really progressive for a board to actually be doing weekly stand ups. That really shows a pretty transformative way to manage the business and kind of what we think is the stodgy old traditional get together now and then, fly and then get some minutes and fly out, that's super progressive. >> Yeah. I mean, I was on three different board meetings this week with a company I'm on the board of in Minnesota. And we haven't seen each other in person in, I guess since January. (woman laughs) >> So final tips for women that want to make this this move, who, they've got some breathing space, they're not homeschooling the kids all day while they're trying to get their job done and trying to save their own business, but have some cycles and the capabilities. What do you tell them, where should they begin, how should they start thinking about, kind of taking on this additional responsibility and really professional growth in their life? >> Well, I mean, I think something very important for all of us to think about with regard to board service and in general as we get into a very senior level point in our careers at a managing and impact portfolio. People get into a senior point and they don't just want to be an executive for one company, they want to have a variety of ways that they're delivering impact, whether it's as an investor or as a board member or as other things as well as being an operator. And I think the misnomer is that people believe that you have to add them up and they, one plus one plus one equals three, and it's just not true. The truth is that when you add a board seat, when you add that other thing that you're doing it makes you better as a leader in general. Every board meeting I have with [Indistinct] gives me more than I bring back to Athena as an example. And so I think we tend to think of not being able to take on one more thing and I say that we all have a little more space than we think we have to take on the things we want to do. >> Right? That's a good message to me. It is often said if you want to get something done, give it to the busiest person in the room. It's more likely to get it done 'cause you got to be efficient and you just have that kind of get it done attitude. >> That's right. >> All right, Coco. Well, thank you for sharing your thoughts. >> Congratulations, so I guess it's your four year anniversary, five year anniversary [Indistinct] about right? >> Yes, four. >> That's terrific. And we look forward to continuing to watch the growth and hopefully checking in face to face at some point in the not too distant future. >> I would like that. >> All right. Thanks a lot Coco. >> Great talking to you. >> Already. >> She's Coco, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCube. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco. It's theCUBE. Covering RSA conference 2020 San Francisco. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. (upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Rick here with theCUBE. We're at RSA 2020, Moscone and beautiful San Francisco's day four I think Thursday already. This is a crazy conference Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. I don't think we'll be here for tomorrow. It's been a pretty full slate. As it is, we're excited to have our next guest. She is Rose Ross, the founder and chief trailblazer, for Tech Trailblazers. Rose. Great to meet you. >> It's great to be here too. >> Absolutely. So what are the Tech Trailblazers? >> So the Tech Trailblazers are an awards lead platform, which recognizes the creme de la creme of the enterprise Tech startup landscape. >> Jeff: Okay. >> So we cover the categories from AI through to storage, but obviously security is a big part of that and we find that security and cloud are usually our most popular awards to be entered into. >> Okay, and I assume you're, really recognizing the individuals more than the companies, >> We do both. >> Or is it more of the companies? You do both. >> We do the Tech category so they can compare like for like apples with apples, pears with pears, security startups with security startups. And then we also acknowledge and recognize some of the key players in those startups. So we have a female trailblazers and a male trailblazer each year . >> Okay, and how long have you been doing this? >> This is our eighth edition. >> The eighth edition. >> Started for a while. 2012 was our first outing. >> Okay, And you said you just gave out this year's Awards on Monday? >> That's right. We announced it. Yeah, day one of RSA. >> Right, so give us some of the highlights. Who were some of the special people that you called out this year? >> Some of the special people, I actually sat down with one of the special people just now interviewed CEO of Shift-left who is our security trailblazer this year. Manish Gupta and yeah, we spent some time chatting about his journey and his challenges and his successes. And finding out more about the technology itself. So. >> And so what are the criteria to win? >> So we kind of look at a number of elements. We have an independent body of judges who are from the analyst community, from the blogger community from industry itself. So we have CSOs, CIOs, and just people who understand the Technology really, at both the technical level and what is needed by the marketplace. So we look at a number of things. One is obviously innovation. If you're looking at the startup world, you want to look at people who are bringing new and exciting things that are needed by companies, to either secure them or store their data or analyze their data. But we also look at how they're doing in the market. So, we'll be looking at what their go to market strategy is, how they're engaging with the end user community, that type of stuff. >> Okay. And at what stage in their growth are they generally you know, kind of coming into your radar? >> So we sort of do the cutoff for a start up as being having not celebrated their sixth birthday yet. >> Six birthday okay. >> Right, so and have not gone beyond Series C funding. >> Okay. >> So you wanted to keep it on the the newer end of the startup spectrum. We also have a special award for those that have not received any VC funding whatsoever. So they're either growing organically or privately funded. That could be seed capital, you know, crowdfunding, whatever that might be. And they have to be two years or younger, and they are all fire starters. >> And those are fire starters. So those are probably it's just really a function of life, 'cause I would imagine the vast majority of the companies that you recognize, eventually get VC funding if you're playing in this crazy technology space. >> It certainly helps to get to where you want to go. Accelerate, put a bit more fuel in the tank. >> So you also announced in your press release the incredible amount of money (laughs) your award winners have raised over time. Do you tell us a little bit more about that? >> Well, yeah, with RSA this week, we thought it'd be a great time to reflect back on what our security trailblazers had done over these eight editions. And obviously, it's a little bit early for expecting additional fundraising from Shift-left, 'cause they literally got the award on Monday. >> Great. >> But hopefully, if you look at the history of it all, we look at the people who've received the accolade over the last eight editions, nearly all of them have been within their first two years. Most of them have done at least one round of funding, but have usually gone on to do another significant round of funding within 12 months of having one, we'd love to take all the credit for that, but I think you really need to put that on the team. >> Jeff: Right. >> And acquisitions have also been quite prevalent. So we looked at the numbers just before RSA, and it was 72 722 million of the disclosed raised, and just in the security, >> Right. >> Space. Unfortunately, or very fortunately for one of our winners, ZeroFOX, they just peeped in with raising 74 million last Friday, which we didn't include. So if we put the undisclosed it would definitely over 800 million now. So well done to the ZeroFOX guys. >> Right, so how did you get involved in this? >> It was an idea that I had. My my other life is a Tech PR person. And we were working on a campaign for a show somewhat like RSA in the UK. And we thought it would be a great idea to run a startup competition to highlight some new entrants to the market. Unfortunately, they didn't think it was a fit for what they wanted to do, but it was such a compelling idea. I've worked with startups all my life and one of the challenges was always with them, particularly in the early stages to get recognition and to get coverage. So we thought we can do something about this. And I thought, well, nobody's going to listen to a PR person. They aren't interested in what I think. I'm not an expert on who's great in this space. So I spoke to Joe Bagley, who's the CTO of Amir for VMware, who's somebody I've worked with a lot over the years. And I said, Look, Joe, if I run something like this, would you come on board as a judge? And he said, Absolutely, I think it's a brilliant idea. And luckily, many other amazing judges has followed in his footsteps. So it's thanks to them, so. >> How many judges are there? >> We have around 40. I mean, we have a number of what a number of categories. So we want a specialist in those areas. Some cover multiple light cloud and security or Cloud and Storage. But obviously, when you look at AI and blockchain and all these other categories, you need people who really understand that space. >> And what's the process kind of how big is the top of the funnel when he started? And then how do you kind of whittle it down to the end when you said 1212 categories, so 12 winners per year about? >> Yeah. So we started off as obviously people enter usually through their PR team or their marketing team, or pull together the information that we request, which is quite a lengthy process, it's a big commitment of time. But not huge, but we do want to get to a certain amount of detail, to make a decision and give the judges something to work with. Then for that period, we then put out the judges to create the shortlist. So they will come back they will score on a number of elements, which are things like innovation and the maturity of the technology, then go to market attractiveness and their own personal view of how exciting and it is intuitive and how trailblazing it actually is. >> Right. >> Then we put it out to a public vote, but also the judges then take the shortlist and take another look at everybody. >> And it gets a public vote too? >> Yes, it does. >> It so does. Do the judges ever meet with the the nominees or is it all done based on the application the application packet that you put together and any other independent information they find on their own? >> Well, we still would encourage. I know the judges do like to reach out to people. And I know that obviously there are relationships because of the nature of the types of judges. >> Jeff: Sure. >> Obviously, we've got people in industry within the vendor community, analysts and bloggers, so they will have people that they know. So I always encourage people, if they say, you know, what would you do? I said, Well, if I was you, I would also reach out to the judges in your area, and just make them aware of who you are. And if they have other questions that they should you know, set up a briefing or something. >> Right. So it's really interesting concept to get the pub into the startup world because it's really, as you know, being in PR, you know, it's really hard to get elevated above the noise, if you will. And you know, we're sitting here surrounded by I don't even know how many thousands of vendors are in this hall. >> The early stage has 51 just as a starter. >> 51 in the early stage expo. >> Yes. >> Which hall is that? >> It's up on the second floor. >> On the second floor. Then there's little like corners of cubbies have of not even 10 by 10s. But you know the kind of the classic kiosks. So, when you're talking to two small companies, regardless of whether they go for the word, what do you tell them as a PR pro? What do you tell them as someone who's, you know, kind of seeing the challenges of trying to raise your profile as a small company? Do you stick to your knitting? Do you in a try to get a high profile? When you know, what are some of the tips and tricks that help little companies rise above the den, if you will, in this great space. >> Validation is always very important. Talk to the influencers in your space, talk to the analysts in your space, the bloggers in your space, and get that feedback and integrate it into your plan of how you create your message. And I think that's one of the hard things, a lot of startups particularly in the technology space, particularly enterprise Tech, they really in the weeds with what's amazing about their products and why they put it together. But you really have to put that into very simple terms. >> Jeff: Right. >> I mean, if you look at someone like RSA, we have got, you know, a lot of buzzwords kicking around here. You do have to try and put that into the deeds and requirements of the end user community. That's always got to be your lens on things >> Right. >> really. >> And you also you always have the vendor viability issues, you know, with your top and even if your Tech relatively inexpensive, maybe as a PLC or this or that, it still takes an investment from your potential customers to put it in and take that risk. And, you know, that's a much bigger hurdle to overcome often than simply the pricing or the structure of the deal. Not a easy, not an easy path. >> It has to be a partnership. I mean, one of the things we were advocating a couple years ago is that the bigger organizations really should have somebody who has a role of being a Chief Collaboration Officer for those smaller companies to engage with them. Because even the procurement process can obviously kill you. >> A little kill a little company, right? Even the pre sales, just having meetings and meetings and meetings and meetings and meetings and meetings to talk about the meetings that you're going to have to maybe eventually (laughs) get to somebody who can make a decision. >> Yeah, Its tough. >> Very cool. >> So, any kind of significant changes in the programme over time? Are you pretty much at the same place you were eight years ago? Or do you see this expanding into different categories? How do you see, you know, kind of the evolution of the Trailblazer? >> Well, we like to review everything and we listened to our judges, we listened to people in the marketplace. I mean, I had a great meeting yesterday with somebody in banking, who works with an awful lot of startups. And there is some really good news coming through that. The enterprise Tech VC community, there's a lot more of an appetite. They're starting to see the value more and more of investing in that type of longer longer term, because you can actually scale beyond where you can do sometimes with a consumer Technology. >> Right >> The potential unicorn sometimes don't quite make it. Those horses aren't always that reliable in the race. >> (laughs) Sometimes too much money is not a good thing that is for sure. >> Yeah. >> Or is good for you? It's a great way I know, I think the kind of the award format is a great way to shine a little bit of extra light on some of these companies that are really struggling to get noticed. It's a really difficult process for a startup, especially in such a deep Technology field. Something is so mission critical that people it's just not that easy for people to give you a try and give you a trial. Takes a lot of investment. So good work and look forward >> Thank you. to continuing to see the winners, raise lots of money and have success. >> Right, absolutely. Thank you, Jeff. >> All right Rose thanks again. She's Rose, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're at RSA 2020. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering RSA Conference 2020 San Francisco. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's coverage from RSA Conference on Moscone South. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. You know, cybersecurity is changing, and the next technology is right around the corner, and it's got to be invented somewhere, and of course Accenture Labs is part of it. Our next guest is Lisa O'Connor, Global Security R&D Lead for Accenture Labs. Lisa's working on some of those hard problems all around the world. Thank you for joining me today. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, we always get the good scoop from Accenture, because you have a lot of smart people in that company. You know, they know their stuff. I know you got a huge analytics team. I've talked to Jean-Luc Chatelain before, and I know you got a massive amount of, deep bench of talent. But as you have to go do the applied R&D, and maybe some of the crazy ideas, you got to start thinking about where the puck is going to be. >> Absolutely. >> You got to understand that. Well, it's pretty clear to us that Cloud is certainly there. Palo Alto Networks had a disappointing earnings yesterday, because their on-premises business is shifting to the Cloud. You're seeing hybrid operating model and multicloud for the enterprise, but now you got global challenges. >> We absolutely do. >> Huge, so what are you guys working on that's coming? Tell us. >> So we're working on lots of exciting things, and Cloud is one of them. But, some of the things I'm so passionate about in labs, and I have the best job at Accenture. Don't tell anyone. (laughs) I do. So, we are working on, like Jean-Luc is working on applied intelligence, we are working on robust AI. So, when we think about AI in the future, how do we feel that, and know that it's okay? How do we put it out there and know it's safe in production, we've done the right training, we've made our model resilient to what's out there? One of the things we see happening, and I love AI, love it. It has great potential, and we get great insights out of it, but a lot of times we stop, we get the insights, and we say, "Okay, it's in the box, we got a couple hits there, "we're good, it's good." No, maybe not. And so really, it's learning and creating the actually applied attacks on AI, and then figuring out what the right defenses are. And, depending on what type of machine learning you're using, those defenses change. And so, we're having a great time in our lab in Washington D.C., working on basically defending AI and building those techniques, so that what we put out as Accenture is robust. >> You know, it's interesting, AI, you watch some of the hardcore, you know, social justice warriors out there going after Amazon, Google, you know, because they're doing some pretty progressive things. Oh, facial recognition, you got AI, you got Alexa. You know, a lot of people are like, "Oh, I'm scared." But, at the end of the day, they also have some challenges like network security, so you have all this AI up and down the stack. And, one thing I like about what's being talked about in the industry is the shared responsibility model. So, I got to ask you, as AI becomes exciting, but also, balancing, frightening to people, how do you get that shared responsibility model, so we get it right, do the experimentation, without people freaking out? (laughs) So, it's kind of like this weird mode we're in now, where I want to do more AI, because I think it benefits society, but everyone's freaking out. >> Yeah, so, in our tech vision that we just launched, The Tech Vision 2020, there's a lot of talk about value and values, which is really important when we think about AI because we can get great value out of it, but there's a values piece of it and it's how we're using it, how we're getting those insights. Because, the one thing, we have this circle, and it's between customer experience, because the companies that do customer experience well are going to excel, they're going to keep their clients, they're going to do amazing things, they're going to become sticky. But, to do that well, you have to be a good custodian of their data and their information, and curated experiences that they want, and not the creepy ones, not the ones they don't want. And so, we really look at that trust is necessary in that ecosystem, in building that, and keeping that with clients. So, that's something that came out of our technology vision. And, in fact, we're going to be talking at the Executive Women's Forum, this is tomorrow, and we're going to be having a panel on AI, and defending it, which will be very interesting. >> Make sure your people film that conference. We'd like to get a view of it on YouTube after. We love those conferences, really insightful. But, I want to get back to what you were talking about, the fun side. >> Yeah. >> You got a lot of new things on, your guys are kicking the tires on, scratching the surface on. You have two operating labs, one in Washington D.C., and one in Israel. What city in Israel? Is it in Tel Aviv or-- >> Herzliya. >> Okay, did not know. >> Yeah, the tech district, just north of Tel Aviv. It's the hotspot. >> So, Silicon Valley, D.C., and Israel, hotbeds of technology now. >> Yes. >> What's coming out of those labs, what's hot? >> Oh, there's so much exciting stuff coming out of our lab in Herzliya. One of the things that we have, and it's something that's been long and coming, it's been brewing for a while, but it's really looking at creating a model of the enterprise security posture. And, when I say a model of it, I'm talking about a cyber digital twin. Because, so much we can't do in our production networks, we don't have the capabilities. We can look around the room, but we don't have the capabilities on the SOCs team side, to ingest all this stuff. We need a playground where we can ask the what-ifs, where we can run high performance analytics, and we do that through a temporal knowledge graph. And, that's a hard thing to achieve, and it's a hard thing to do analytics at scale. So, that's one of the big projects that we're doing out of our Israel lab. >> Are you saying digital twins is a framework for that? >> Yeah. >> Does it really work well with that? >> So the knowledge graph, we can create digital twins around many things, because a digital twin is a model of processes, people, technologies, the statefulness of things, and configurations, whatever you want to pull in there. So, when we start thinking about, what would we take in to create the perfect enterprise security posture? What would give us all the insights? And, then we can ask the questions about, okay, how would an adversary do lateral movement through this? I can't fix everything that's a 10, but I could fix the right ones to reduce the risk impactfully. And, those are the kind of what-ifs that you can do. >> That's real sci-fi stuff, that's right around the corner. >> Yeah, it is. >> That simulation environment. >> It is. >> What-ifs. Oh my god, the company just got hacked, we're out of business. That's your simulation. You could get to, that's the goal, right? >> It absolutely is, to ask those good business questions about the data, and then to report on the risk of it. And, the other thing, as we move to 5G, this problem's getting bigger and bigger, and we're now bringing in very disparate kinds of compute platforms, computing-at-the-edge. And, what does that do to our nice little network model that we had, that our traditional systems are used to defending against? >> I mean, just the segmentation of the network, and the edge opens up so much more aperture-- >> Yes, it does (laughs). >> to the digital twin, or a knowledge graph. You brought up knowledge graph, I want to get your thoughts on this. I was just having dinner last night with an amazing woman out of New York. She's a Ph.D. in computer science. So, we're talking about graphs, and I love riffing on graph databases. But, the topic came up about databases in general, because with the cloud, it's horizontally scalable, you've got all kinds of simulation, a lot of elasticity going on, there's a lot of software being written on this. You got time series database, you got relational database, you got unstructured, and you got graphs. You got to make them all work together. This is kind of the unique challenge. And, with security, leveraging the right database, and the right construct is a super important thing. How do you guys look at that in the labs? Because, is it something that you guys think about, or is it going to be invisible someday? >> Oh, we think about it a lot. In fact, we've had a number of research projects over the last five years now, actually six years, where we've really pivoted hard in cyber security to graph databases. And, the reason for that is, the many-to-many relationships, and what we can do in terms of navigating, asking the questions, pulling on a thread, because in cyber hunting, that's what we're doing. In many of these use cases that we're trying to defend an enterprise, we're following the next new path based on the newest information of now what the challenge is, or what the current configuration is. So, that's really important. So, graph databases enable that so well. Now, there's still the architecture challenge of, okay, when I ask a query, what am I doing? Am I disrupting the whole apple cart? Do I have to process everything over, or is there a way to do that elegantly, where I can ask my query, and because of how I've structured it in storage, I can do it much better, and I can do it much more efficiently. And that, I think, is where the opportunities are. >> I got to tell you, I'm getting exited now on this whole database discussion, because you think about the logic around what you just said. A graph database with that kind of complexity, when you factor in contextually different things happening at any given time, the database needs to be parsed and managed differently. >> Yes. >> That's a huge challenge. >> It is a great research challenge, which is why we're doing it. >> What is that, how far along are we going to be able to have this dynamic, self-evolving, self-governing, self-healing data modeling? Is that coming soon, or... >> Yeah, I hope so. We wrote about it a couple of years ago. >> You did? >> The self-healing enterprise, aspirational. But I think, I mean, we try to get to real time, right? And, we try to get to real time, and again, refactoring. As we talk about what an adversary is going to do, or lateral movement through a business process, we're talking about a lot of computational horsepower to recalculate all that, process it again, update it, and then again present that back. So the number of things we're asking, how we're asking it becomes also very important to the structure. >> Just, it goes zooming up a little bit, high level, what we're really talking about here is value >> of the data. >> Absolutely. >> And, when you get into the valuation of the nodes, and the arcs, and all that graphs, and other databases, you got to know what to pay attention to. It's kind of like going into the hospital and hearing all these alarms going off. At some point you don't know what's, until they hear a flat line, or whatever. >> Right. That's a bad one. >> I mean, well that's obvious. But, now sometimes there's so many alerts, there's so many alarms. How do you understand at any given time what to pay attention to, because obviously when someone's having a problem you want to pay attention to it. If it's a security alert, that's prioritized. >> And the devil is in the analytics, right? What's the question we're asking, and the analytics that give us that prioritization? And that's non-trivial, because there are a lot of other folks that are doing prioritization in a different manner. To do it at scale, and to do it, not just one hop out, but I want to go all the way to the crown jewels, I want that whole path navigated, and I want to know where to cut along that path. That's a hard thing to do. And so, we've actually developed, and we've submitted patents for them, but we've developed new analytics that'll support that. >> Awesome. Well Lisa, I want to ask you kind of a, I'll give you a plug here, just going to get it out, because I think it's important. Skills gap's a big thing, so I want to give you a minute to explain, or share what you're looking for in your hiring. Who are you looking for? What kind of, the make-up of individual, obviously? Maybe, do you use straight, more academic paper kind of people, or practitioners? I mean, when you look to hire, what are some of the priorities that you look for, and who would thrive in an Accenture Lab's environment? >> Oh, my goodness. >> Take a minute to share what you're looking for. >> Yeah, so we love people that think out of the box, and those kinds of people come from very different backgrounds. And so, part of that is, some of them we look for Ph.D.'s, that have wonderful applied skills, and applied is a key word there. White papers are great, I need to be able to prove something, I need to be able to demo something that has value. So, having the applied skills to a business challenge is really important. So, that sort of ground, understanding the business, very important too. But, our talent comes from many different areas. I mean, I kind of joke, my lab looks like the UN, it's wonderful. I have people from across the globe that are in our cyber security lab. I have, in our Washington D.C. lab, we're 50% women, which is also exciting, because we want different experiences, and we shoot for cognitive diversity, right? So, we're looking for people that think differently about solving problems, and are not encumbered by what they've seen in the past, because we're trying to be tip of spear. And, I'm sure you know that from Paul Daugherty. >> Yeah. >> We are trying to be three to five years over the horizon. >> You guys got a good narrative. I always love talking to Accenture, they have a good vision. So, I got to ask you, the next logical question is, obviously, in the news, you see everyone talking about breaches, and ya know, it's not a breach if the door's open, you just walk in. They're really walking in, nothing was really breached, you're just giving it to them. >> Yeah. It's a passive invitation. >> (laughs) Hey come on in. Human error is a big part of it, but then, breach is obviously targeted, phishing, and all that good stuff. But, as those stories get told, there's a whole nother set of stories that aren't being told that are super important. So, I'd love to get your thoughts on, what are the most important stories that we should be talking about that aren't being talked about? >> Yeah, so I have two that are front-of-mind for me. One theme we come back to, and it's not sexy, it's hygiene. It is IT hygiene, and so many of the large companies, and even medium, small companies, we have legacy technology, and keeping that adds complexity, it adds to the whole breadth and depth of what we have to manage and defend. Keeping that attack surface simple and small, cloud-enabled, all those good things, is a real asset and it makes it much easier to defend. So, that's kind of the first non-sexy one, hygiene. The other one I'll say that I think is a challenge that we are not dealing with yet, quantum computing, right? And so, we're on the way to getting our post quantum cryptography in place, but there's another dimension to it, and it's our histories. So, all of the things that have passed on the wire, all the communications with the key exchanges, all that brilliant stuff, is sitting somewhere. Once we get to that point where this becomes very routine, and it's coming fast, we predicted eight years, two years ago. >> So, all that exhaust is somewhere, pent up. >> It's somewhere that, we have to think about how much data we're keeping as custodians, how we're managing it, and then we have to think about the exposure from our past, and say, "Okay, what does that mean that, that was out there?" "Is it aged enough that it doesn't have value?" And, I think there's a real triage that needs to be done, and certainly data management. >> I think, you know, the hygiene brings up a good point. It reminds me of the story Andy Jassy was telling about the mainframe customer that they couldn't find who had the password. They had to find their person, who was retired 10 years earlier to get the password. You don't forget things, but also, there's a human component in all this. Humans and machines are working together. >> Absolutely. >> And. that's a huge part of it. It's not just machines dominating it all, there's going to be a human component, there's a societal impact that we're seeing with information. And, whether that's out in the open, or behind closed doors, there's all kinds of things looming. >> There are, and I think one of the things in the companies that we're seeing who are embracing innovation well, are doing a lot of retraining. Because, the things that people are excellent at, AI is not good at, and the things that AI is good at, are not at all what people are good at. So, the good news is there is a beautiful teaming there, if we retool the skills, or if we re-envision those roles, so that people can get into those roles, and I think that's really important, because I'd rather see AI do all the heavy lifting well, and be trustworthy, and robust and all those great things, and the people be doing the much smarter things that require a human. >> Does the process serve the purpose? Does the purpose serve the process? Same kind of question, right? >> Exactly. >> AI, you can't have great AI that does nothing. >> That's right. >> (laughs) So, it has to be relevant. >> It absolutely does. >> Relevance is kind of a big thing. >> And we own that context, right? Humans own that context. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming in, and sharing the insight. Really appreciate it. Final question, it's always tough to pick your favorite child, but what is your most coolest thing you're working on right now? >> I'll tell you, the cyber digital twin stuff is so cool. >> The what? >> The cyber digital twin stuff is so cool. When you see the power of what that picture, and the analytics can do, we'll show ya. >> Do you have a demo of that now? >> We absolutely do. >> You do. Is it online, or is it more in person you got to see it? >> More in person. >> Okay. >> Folks can reach out, yeah. >> We'll have to get the exclusive on that. >> We do. >> I love those simulations. I think it's very beneficial. >> It is. >> A lot of learning. I mean, who doesn't want practice? >> Well, and a picture, you know that is worth a million dollars. It's just incredible to look at it, and it clicks. It clicks of all the potential things you could ask or do. And, that's the exciting part now, as we show this with customers' and we co-innovate with customers', they're coming up with a laundry list of questions. >> And, this is the beautiful thing about cloud, is that new capabilities are emerging every day, and you could use the good ones. Lisa O'Connor is here. Thank you very much for sharing your insights. Global Security R&D Lead for Accenture Labs. TheCUBE coverage, getting all the signal here on the show floor, extracting that from all the noise. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from Las >>Vegas. It's the cues covering quality security Conference 2019 Bike. Wallace. Hey, welcome back It ready? Geoffrey here with the Cube were at the Bellagio in Las Vegas. It's actually raining outside, which is pretty odd, but through the desert is happy. We're here at the Kuala Security Conference. Been going on for 19 years. It's our first time here. We're excited to be here, but we got a really familiar Gaston. She's been on a number of times that Nutanix next, conferences and girls who code conferences, etcetera. So we're happy to have back Wendy Pfeifer. She's the C I O of Nutanix and as of August, early this year, a board member for quality. So great to see you. >>Nice to see you again, too. So it's raining outside. I'll have to get out. >>I know it's pretty, uh, pretty cool, actually. School coming in on the plane. But let's let's jump into a little bit from your C I, Oh, roll. We're talking a lot about security and in the age old thing came up in the keynote. You know, there's companies that have been hacked, and then there's companies that have been hacked and don't know it yet, but we're introducing 1/3 type of the company. Here is one of the themes which is that you actually can prevent, you know, not necessarily getting hacked, but kind of the damage and destruction and the duration once people get in. I'm just curious from your CEO >>hat. How >>do you look at this problem? That the space is evolving so quickly? How do you kind of organize your your thoughts around it? >>Yeah, for me. First of all, um, it starts with good architecture. So whether it's our own products running or third party products running, we need to ensure that those products are architected for resilience. And that third kind of company, the Resilient company, is one that has built in architecture er and a set of tools and service is that are focused on knowing that we will be hacked. But how can we minimize or even eliminate the damage from those hacks? And in this case, having the ability to detect those hacks when their incoming and to stop them autonomously is the key to HQ Wallace's play and the key to what I do as CEO at Nutanix, >>right? So one of the other things that keeps coming up here is kind of a budget allocation to security within the CEO budget on. And I think Mr Clark said that, you know, if you're doing 3% or less, you're losing, and you gotta be spending at least 8%. But I'm curious, because it to me is kind of like an insurance story. How much do you spend? How much do you allocate? Because potentially the downside is enormous. But you can't spend 100% of your budget just on security. So how do you think about kind of allocating budget as a percentage of spin versus the risk? >>Well, I love that question. That's part of the art of being a C i O A. C. So, you know, first of all, we have ah mixed portfolio of opportunities to spend toe hold to divest at any one time, and I t portfolio management has been around for 30 years, 40 years, almost as long as some of the people that I know. However, um, we always have that choice, right? We're aware of risk, and then we have the ability to spend. Now, of course, perfect security is to not operate at all. But that's about that's, you know, swinging too far the wrong way on Dhe. Then we also have that ability, maybe to not protect against anything and just take out a big old cyber security policy. And where is that policy might help us with lawsuits? It wouldn't necessarily have help us with ongoing operations. And so it's somewhere in the middle, and I liked some of the statistics that they share today. One of the big ones for me was that companies that tend to build resilient worlds of cybersecurity tend to spend about 10% of their total I t operating budgets on cyber security. That makes sense to me, and that reflects my track record at Nutanix and elsewhere, roughly in that amount of spending. Now you know, checking the box and saying, Well, we're spending 10% on cybersecurity doesn't really buy us that much, and also we have to think about how we're defining that spend on cyber security. Part of that spend is in building resilient architectures and building resilient code. And uh, that's sort of a dual purpose spend, because that also makes for performance code it makes for scalable, supportable code, et cetera. So you know, we can do well by doing good in this >>case. So again, just to stay on that beam permit, it went. So when you walk the floor at R S. A. And there's 50,000 people and I don't even know how many vendors and I imagine your even your I T portfolio now around security is probably tens of products, if not hundreds, and certainly tens of vendors again. How do you How do you? You kind of approach it. Do you have trusted advisors around certain point solutions? Are you leveraging? You know, system integrators or other types of specialists to help? You kind of sort through and get some clarity around this just kind of mess. >>Well, all of us actually are looking for that magic discernment algorithm. Wouldn't it be great if >>you could just >>walk up to a vendor and apply the algorithm? And ah ha. There's one who's fantastic. We don't have that, and so we've got a lot of layers of ingest. I try to leave room in my portfolio for stealth and emerging technologies because generally the more modern the technology Is the Mauritz keeping pace with the hackers out there and the bad guys out there? Um, we do have sort of that middle layer that surround the ability for us to operate at scale because we also have to operate these technologies. Even the most cutting edge technology sometimes lack some of the abilities for us to ingest them into our operations. And then they're sort of the tried and true bedrock that hopefully is built into products we consume. Everything from public Cloud service is to, uh, you know, hardware and so on. And so there's this range of choices. What we have to dio ultimately is we use that lens of operations and operational capability. And first of all, we also ensure that anything we ingest meets our design standards and our design standards include some things that I think are fascinating. I won't go into too much detail because I know how much you love this detail. But you know, things like are the AP eyes open? What is integration look like? What's the interaction design look like? And so those things matter, right? Ultimately, we have to be able to consume the data from those things, and then they have to work with our automation, our machine learning tools. Today at Nutanix, for example, you know, we weigh like toe. I'm happy to say we catch, you know, most if not all of any of the threats against us, and we deal with well over 95% of them autonomously. And so were a living example of that resilient organization that is, of course, being attacked, but at the same time hopefully responding in a resilient way. We're not perfect knock on wood, but we're actively engaged. >>So shifting gears a little bit a bit a bit now to your board hat, which again, Congratulations. Some curious. You know, your perspective on kind of breaking through the clutter from the from the board seat Cos been doing this for 19 years. Still relatively small company. But, you know, Philippe talked a lot about kind of company. Percy's me industry security initiatives that have to go through what are some of the challenges and opportunities see sitting at the board seat instead of down in the nitty gritty down the CEO. >>Well, first of all, um, quality is financially a well run responsible organization and one of Philippe and the leadership teams. Goals has always been toe operate profitably and tow. Have that hedge on DSO. What that means is that as consumers, we can count on the longevity of the organization and the company's ability to execute on its road map. It's the road map that I think is particularly attractive about Wallace. You know, I am who I am. I'm an operator. I'm a technologist. And so although I'm a board member and I care about all dimensions of the company, the most attractive component is that this this road map in those 19 years of execution are now coming to fruition at exactly the right time. For those of us who need these tools in these technologies to operate, this is a different kind of platform and its instrumented with machine learning with a I. At a time when the Attackers and the attacks are instrumented that way as well as as you mentioned, we have a lot of noise in the market today, and these point solutions, they're gonna be around for a while, right? We operate a messy and complex and wonderful ecosystem. But at the same time, the more that we can streamline, simplify on and sort of raised that bar. And the more we can depend on the collected data. From all of these point tools to instrument are automated responses, the better off we'll be. And so this is, Ah, platform whose whose time has come and as we see all of the road map items sort of coming to fruition. It's really, really exciting. And it's, you know, just speaking for a moment of someone who's been a leader in various technology companies in the security and, you know, technology space for some time. One of the most disappointing things about many technology startups is that they don't build in that that business strength. Thio have enough longevity and have enough of a hedge to execute on that brilliant vision. And so many brilliant ideas have just not seen the light of day because of a failure to execute. In this case, we have a company with a track record of execution that's monetized the build out of the platform, and now also these game changing technologies are coming to fruition. It's it's really, really exciting to be a part of it. >>So Wendy, you've mentioned a I machine learning Probably get checked. The transfer of a number of times 85 times is this interview. So it's really interesting, you know, kind of there's always a lot of chatter in the marketplace, But you talked about so many threats coming in and we heard about Mickey noticed. Not really for somebody sitting in front of a screen anymore to pay attention, this stuff. So when you look at the opportunity of machine learning and artificial intelligence and how that's going to change the role of the CEO and specifically and security when if you can share your thoughts on what that opens up >>absolutely s so there's kind of two streams here I'd love to talk about. The first is that we've had this concern as we've moved to Public Cloud and I t that i t people would be left behind. But in fact, after sort of ah little Dev ops blip where non i t people were writing code that was them consumed by enterprises were now seen the growth of I t. Again and what this relates to is this In the past, when we wanted to deploy something in public cloud. We had to be able Thio compose an express infrastructure as code. And, um, folks who are great at infrastructure are actually pretty lousy at writing code, and so that was a challenge. But today we have low code and know code tools, things like work Otto, for example, that my team uses that allow us to express the operational processes that we follow sort of the best practices and the accumulated knowledge of these I t professionals. And then we turn the machine on that inefficient code and the machine improves and refines the code. So now, adding machine learning to the mix enables us to have these I t professionals who know more than you'd ever imagine about storage and compute and scaling and data and cybersecurity and so on. And they're able to transform that knowledge into code that a machine can read, refine and execute against. And so we're seeing this leap forward in terms of the ability of some of these tools. Thio transform how we address the scale and the scope in the complexity of these challenges. And so on the one side, I think there's new opportunity for I T professionals and for those who have that operational expertise to thrive because of these tools on the other side, there's also the opportunity for the bad guys in the in the cyberspace. Um, Thio also engage with the use of thes tools. And so the use of these tools, that sort of a baseline level isn't enough. Now we need to train the systems, and the systems need to be responsive, performance resilient. And also, they need to have the ability to be augmented by to be integrated with these tools. And so suddenly we go from having this utopian. Aye, aye. Future where you know, the good looking male or female robot, you know, is the nanny for our kids, um, to something much more practical that's already in place, which is that the machine itself, the computer itself is refining in augmenting the things that human beings are doing and therefore able to be first of all, more responsive, more performance, but also to do that layer of work that is not unique to human discernment. >>Right? We hear that over and over because the press loved to jump on the general. May I think it's much more fun to show robots than then Really, the applied A I, which is lots of just kind of like Dev ops. Lots of little improvements. Yeah, lots of little places. >>Exactly. Exactly. You know, I mean, I kind of like the stories of our robot overlords, you know, take it over to. But the fact is, at the end of the day, these machine, it's just math. It's just mathematics. That's all it is. It's compute. >>So when you find let you go, I won't touch about women in tech. You know, you're a huge proponent of women in tech. You're very active on lots of boards and cure with Adriaan on the girls and Tech board where we last where we last sat down. Um, and you're making moves now. Obviously, you've already got a C title. Now you're doing more bored work. I just wonder if you can kind of share your thoughts of how this thing's kind of movement is progressing. It seems to have a lot of of weight behind it, but I don't know if the numbers air really reflecting that, but you're you're on the front lines. What can you shares? You know, you're trying to help women. That's much getting detect. But to stay into tech, I think, is what most of the stats talk about. >>Yeah, I've got a lot of thoughts on this. I think I'll try to bring our all the vectors together. So I recently was awarded CEO of the year by the Fisher Center for Data and Analytics and thank you very much. And the focus there is on inclusive analytics and inclusive. Aye, aye. And And I think this this is sort of a story that that makes the point. So if we think about all of the data that is training these technology tools and systems, um, and we think about the people who are creating these systems and the leaders who are our building, these systems and so on, for the most part, the groups of people who are working on these things technologists, particularly in Silicon Valley. They're not a diverse set of people. They're mostly male. They're overwhelmingly male. Many are from just a handful of of, um, you know, countries and groups, right? It's it's It's mainly, you know, Caucasian males, Indian males and Asian males. And and because of that, um, this lack of diverse thinking and diverse development is being reflected in the tools in ways that eventually will build barriers for folks who don't share those characteristics. As an example, Natural language processing tooling is trained by non diverse data sets, and so we have challenges with that. For example, people who are older speak a little bit more slowly and have different inflections in general on how they speak. And the voice recognition tools don't recognize them as often. People who have heavy accents, for example, are just not recognized. Yes, you know, I always have a phone, Um, and this is my iPhone and I have had an iPhone for 10 years. Siri, my, you know, helpful Agent has been on the phone in all those years. And in all of those years, um, I have had a daughter named Holly H O l L Y. And every time that I speak Thio, I dictate to Syria to send a message on. I use my daughter's name. Holly. Syria always responds with the spelling. H o L I. The Hindu holiday. Now, in 10 years, Siri has never learned that. When I say Holly, I'm most likely mean my daughter >>was in the context of the sentence. >>Exactly. Never, ever, ever. Because, you know Siri is an Aye aye, if you will. That was built without allowing for true user input through training at the point of conversation. And so s So that's it. That's bad architecture. There's a lot of other challenges with that architecture that reflect on cybersecurity and so on. One tiny example. But I think that, um now more than ever, we need diverse voices in the mix. We need diverse training data. We need, you know, folks who have different perspectives and who understand different interaction design to be not only as a tech entrepreneurs, builders and leaders of country of companies like, you know, girls in tech Support's educating women supporting women entrepreneurs. I'm I'm also on the board of another group called Tech Wald. That's all about bringing US combat veterans into the technology workforce. There's another diverse group of people who again can have a voice in this technology space. There are organizations that I work with that go into the refugee that the permanent refugee camps and find technically qualified folks who can actually build some of this training data for, ah, you know, analytics and a I We need much, much more of that. So, you know, my heart is full of the opportunity for this. My my head's on on fire, you know, and just trying to figure out how can we get the attention of technology companies of government leaders and and before it's too late, are training data sets are growing exponentially year over year, and they're being built in a way that doesn't reflect the potential usage. I was actually thinking about this the other day. I had an elderly neighbor who ah, spoke with me about how excited he waas that he he no longer could drive. He wasn't excited about that. He no longer could drive. He couldn't see very well and couldn't operate a car. And he was looking forward to autonomous vehicles because he was gonna have a mobility and freedom again. Right? Um, but he had asked me to help him to set up something that he had on his computer, and it was actually on his phone. But he there was their voice commands, but But it didn't understand him. He was frustrated. So he said, Could you help me. And I thought, man, if his mobile phone doesn't understand him, how's the autonomous vehicle going to understand him so that the very population who needs these technologies the most will will be left out another digital divide? And and, um, now is the moment while these tools and technologies are being developed, a word about Wallace. You know, when I was recruited for the board, um, you know, they already had 50 50 gender parity on the board. It wasn't even a thing in my interviews. We didn't talk about the fact that I am female at all. We talked about the fact that I'm an operator, that I'm a technologist. And so, um, you know that divide? It was already conquered on HK. Wallace's board that's so not true for many, many other organizations and leadership teams is particularly in California Silicon Valley. And so I think there's a great opportunity for us to make a difference. First of all, people like me who have made it, you know, by representing ourselves and then people of every gender, every color, every ethnicity, immigrants, et cetera, um, need to I'm begging you guys stick with it, stay engaged don't let the mean people. The naysayers force you to drop out. Um, you know, reconnect with your original values and stay strong because that's what it's gonna take. >>It's a great message. And thank you for your passion and all your hard work in the space. And the today it drives better outcomes is not only the right thing to do and a good thing to do that it actually drives better outcomes. >>We see that. >>All right, Wendy, again. Always great to catch up. And congratulations on the award and the board seat and look forward to seeing you next time. Thank you. All right, She's windy. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube with a quality security conference at the Bellagio in Las Vegas. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Q covering I f s World Conference 2019. Brought to you by I >>f. S, I say, What a minute. I didn't cash it. Everybody welcome to I f s World 2019. You watching the Cube? The leader in live tech coverage on day Volante with my co host, Paul Galen. Marty Martin is here. She is the president of the service management division of I F s and C e o of work wave. Marty, good to see you. >>Yeah, it's great to be here. I'm so excited. >>A lot of action going on. You guys. Service management, Field Service management particular. You guys had an acquisition today. We're gonna talk about Let's start with your role you came in and 2017 with the >>pretty acting. Actually, >>2018 finalized the acquisition. I think they announce it in 2017. So tell us about how you came in and where you're at today with >>Certainly. So work wave the company. I lied. Join the effects family in 2017. Darren Ruess, who joined I f s in April 2018 recruited me into form a global business unit around service in August of 2018 and the reason why we did this is service isn't only a part of our economies all over the world, but it's a super great growth area that almost every business can go after in in progress both revenue and margins. So we had a lot of great software products, and we really wanted to improve our go to market around this. >>So why, why all of a sudden today, this talk about service management? Why's it becoming so hard? I mean, everybody's always been focused on customer service, but why this service management generally and field service management while the buzz. >>So first off, you've had the evolution of a number of line of business applications and service certainly has been a part of maintenance organizations or break fix where you're going out in repairing thing. What we're realizing now when you talk about service ization, how o E EMS air building what's called aftermarket revenue? There is literally $100 billion of revenue that you can get from that you look, we had Melissa did a nano from Souza. If you think about open source software, they make money from sirve ties, ing, open source software and the products. You look at apple how they're doing APs. So people are starting to realize that service is an engine for brand loyalty, customer experience, not just a cost center. How it used to be, what the >>customers do. Ah, companies do wrong with service one of the areas where they tend to have the greatest inefficiencies where you can help him. >>So first off, I'd say that often in the C suite, unless they're pure place service companies. They don't understand how transformative service is and how important it is to their brand. Many times now, if you have digital enablement of a new customer, the first time they see a face of your brand might be your service technician. So getting the awareness of the C suite is Step one, because we want to start talking about outcomes that grow revenue and profits and getting them to invest in service. So you know, many times will say, Oh, I want to do a C. R M project. I want to do an E r P project. That's certainly things were good at it. Here I a fest, but we can coach them through how you take the market opportunity for your company and service enabled by our technology and transform. Tomorrow I'll be with Accenture, one of our many great partners, and we're talking about adapting the business, the service transformation, sometimes digitally, sometimes with workflow transformation. But that opportunity and service is huge and almost never. There's no company I know of that's taking 100% of their service market share. That's the difference, especially in slower growth. Asset manufacturing are more mature verticals. >>So I was here last night walking the floor, and I went to the extent you Booth, you know, anytime you see, except you're in a show like this. Okay, Censure. You think Large company Global. I was actually quite impressed a little bit surprised to see you know, their presence here because they they go where the money is, right? And so my specific question is, think, except you think big companies. But you guys obviously focused on what range of companies smaller midsize company. So what's the landscape? Looked like? What's the difference is between sort of smaller and larger companies, >>so that's a great question. I'll take it in part So if you think about a neck censure definitely they looked a large. I also have had meetings with the Lloyd McKinsey Cap gem and I dxc etcetera Also tcs Tech Mahindra which a little bit or more telco focused. So if you think about at the very large and you have telco utilities, large manufacturing O e ems that our customers and definitely the customers I'm pursuing Maur with this focus But we also with work with go down to the S and B We had panels also of, for example, female owners of franchises and also males as well that are creating new service businesses and they're starting maybe with one truck in out providing service. So the fact that we can handle not only the breath and depth of complex service needs, but through work wave we also can encourage the small service businesses to reach their full potential is fantastic. And you know that makes me excited every day. And part of why I focused on service specifically is you are delighting customers. You are the face of a brand and you're making a difference. It's not something that s 02 is esoteric. This is about really value that we're delivering, >>always interested in the dynamics of serving the SNB market >>because one of >>these small companies don't really have that. Maybe family owned there found her own. They don't really put a lot of value on technology. How >>do you >>get in the door? How do you convince them that automating the service function is actually worth the investment? >>Well, first off, I'd say that even the big companies are struggling to go paperless. Okay, so, you know, I think some of the challenges we see survive, if you will, big to small, especially when you look globally in different countries. What have you. But the approach we take in the S and B is that we want to be a software as a service provider, and we were to really handle everything they need in their business. So everything from how they grow leads how they have c r m type functionality. How, then they're delivering service, how they're cross selling service, how they're billing service. So at the at the S M B level, we're putting that kind of all in one technology and there's really not that much integration or I T Service is around that right. We want it to be easy and fast, etcetera, as you go more into the mid market and then definitely into the enterprise. Then you start getting more complexity. You get more I t service's integrations, more configurable ity, sometimes even some customized software. So there is a definitely a difference in the complexity. But the fundamentals of what a service business needs really isn't that much different to your >>customers that you mentioned customize and you guys were SAS space. That's one of the text that we'd like to sort of explore a little bit. A lot >>of >>times SAS companies want to avoid, you know, custom mods. But at the same time, you guys are trying to offer a choice. So help us square that circle. How do you What's the conversation like with customers in terms of how you advise them, You guys obviously do a lot of deep functionality, you know? How do you sort of advise them whether or not to go heavily custom or try to go out of the box? >>Certainly. So in the true, I'd say the small business of a medium you start getting some crossover, but in the small business, Absolutely avoid customization because you won't be able to stay evergreen. It's going to be too hard to maintain. You don't have the subject matter experts, et cetera, so that's really a truce. Ask that from a community. A product engagement. We need to be driving the partnership with the customers that they can use a software out of the box in ways that matter to them. As you start getting into the mid market and especially the enterprise, then it becomes more of a choice, right? How much money do you have to spend? How robust is your organization and set trek? And in general, I advise customers if they care about evergreen software, et cetera. If they care about ease of upgrades, don't customize that Being said, we recognize sometimes in the field with your brand experience Custom mobile. You may need to customize a little bit, so it's Ah, say, a chicken and an egg. You have to weigh the benefits of the costs, and that's what we work through with our >>customers. Specifically morning. What's the upgrade cycle like? There's a customer having the choice Thio upgrade at a particular time, Or do they have a window? >>So it varies primarily, there's a few exceptions, but in general, with the work way, Family of products is true SAS. So it's almost like you're Apple Phone. We pushed the upgrade and you have to take it. Okay, And that's the true SAS model at I. F. S. And this is something Darren talked about in his keynote. We pride ourselves on offering choice. So even though we do have regular release cycles, we encourage customers to upgrade regularly. They have the choice on when they take upgrades and also how they deploy. We have some markets with things like data, privacy and what have you that they may, for that reason or for other reasons, go on premise even still today. So we give them the choice on how they upgrade as well as where they host. >>I'm fascinated by your product line. You have products for pest control. H V. A. C. Plumbing cleaning service is long and landscape. How different are these industries really in terms of their their automation needs? >>Well, I'll tell you one of the personal factors that Darren wanted to make sure I was comfortable with was multitasking. And that definitely is the case, because an I f s, we serve five key industries. So if you think about manufacturing utilities, telco service providers and Andy Okay, that's more at the enterprise level. If you think then when you go toe work wave. Those verticals that you mentioned are all the ones we service at work wave, and they are different. So you know what? Work wave. It's primarily service industries where you're going into ah, home and a little bit The commercial aspect and I effects were also doing more some heavy industries, some very large asset base, things like that. So I like to think about it as a product I service consumer based service. And then you can also differentiate across verticals with what are called high value assets versus, you know, Mork consumer size assets. >>So what >>are >>the one of the key technology enablers that are driving service management today? I mean, obviously, cloud, we talked about sas a lot of push on you X and customer experience, but what other key ones? >>So all the three that you mentioned mobile is huge. You know, Pete and even today, like I run. I work mainly from my phone, and that's really what people want. They want efficient work flows that are configurable on mobile, tied to the customer, the asset, the business. And that's an area that we're continuing to make investment. We also try to prioritize how we bring in the new technology trends into service. Because every technology trend that you see has applicable ity and service supply chain and how you run spare parts specially globally, you can see applications for Blockchain augmented emerged Reality how you can connect the field tech with an expert resource or remote resource to the consumer. That is obvious, right? So you talked about the enabling technologies like Cloud, how we're thinking about data platforms and Data's the currency. Of all of that, we need to d'oh. His service is really about a an execution engine, right? Because to deliver a customer experience that makes people come back to your brand. To purchase Maur, you need great service, so any time somebody talks about customer experience, but they don't talk about service. I want to say you're really naive because you can just get the customer. You have to delight the customer. >>Uh, the, uh, there's a lot of interesting technology going on now in the area. Fleet Management making fleets more efficient How does that figure into the service is? You offer. >>So Fleet management is an important part, and it's one that you have a very tangible return on investment when you deploy route management route optimization, fleet management. So you have the aspects that are very tangible, relate to how do you get the person or the truck where it needs to be when it needs to be okay, and that's pretty well understood. Then how do you get the most efficient schedule that minimizes miles driven gas, used et cetera? And then, of course, you also are thinking about health and safety. There's some cool things now that you can partner that if you have these fleet technologies installed in a way that is integrated in your service business, you can actually get lower insurance premiums, right? So it's not just the conventional use. Cases were starting to think in this kind of gig economy, how you can also be thinking about bringing in Maura what's called a contingent workforce. So if you have surge capacity in a certain period or you want to just do more third party service, probably your appliances. You know they're not the employees, if you will, of a g e or a world polar and LG right there Probably a contingent workforce. And that's a model that's also evolving. But to do Fleet Management across say, contractors, not just employees is an area that were thinking more and more led by some of the uber ization, if you will, of the of the marketplace >>right up against the clock, Marty. But to last questions You made an acquisition today, Vashti Uh, yeah, uh, I thought of it as a tuck in acquisitions, although Darren essentially sort of said, it's gonna make you the leader now in service management. Um And then I want to understand how you guys differentiate from some of the big whales. >>So, you know, overall, we're on track to be about 700 revenue this year in service management. We're working to get to 200 million, right? So this year will probably be around maybe 1/5 50 ish per se. Don't quote me on that check with our coms team, but the point being is that we have the ability to use these tuck in acquisitions and service to accelerate our lead, not just from a revenue perspective, which is what we were just talking about. But from a product perspective, you might have followed Salesforce acquiring Click. That means we are the only independent. Aye, aye. Optimization engine that is field tested. Battle ready. So that's great. This s t a is how we consolidate our dominance and complex service. So what darren was speaking to is not on Lee the service management segment of our revenue and how we continue to accelerate over the oracles in the S a. P s and the service maxes et cetera of the world. But how we take what we're already dominant in and really put the hammer down. Honesty is part of that. >>Your differentiation then if I infers, is focus. Um, you're you're deep customer customs agent deep >>domain expertise. Yeah, So really, when you think about a i optimization, which drives a ton of business value and the ability to handle the complex service cases that then drive business outcomes and outcomes based service models, we are number one and s dea tucks into that, even though it is very strategic on how we position ourselves with leadership and service. >>All right, Challenger becomes number one, Marty. Thanks very much. All right, Keep it right, everybody. Dave A lot with Paul Galen. You're watching the Cube from Boston Mass. I f s world 2019 right back.

>> From the SiliconANGLE media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host, Stu Miniman. (techy music) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and welcome to a special CUBE conversation here in our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome to the program first time guest, Patrick Morley, who's the CEO of Carbon Black. Of course, recently announced acquisition by VMware of $2.1 billion. Patrick, thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, thanks for having me. >> All right. So, you know, we love digging into tech. There is no hotter space than security, you know? All the cybers are, you know, really exciting stuff, and even your company's Waltham-based. >> That's right. >> So actually a little closer to Boston than we are here in Marlborough, Massachusetts. When we had a green screen we used to kind of fake it with the skyline, but you know, the Boston area people know more than just Massachusetts Tech, but you know, a lot of, you know, great technology in Boston of course, you know? A lot of good technologies, a lot of good schools that have driven things. You have been CEO since 2007 and have seen quite a bit. You know, merger, Bit9 and Carbon Black many years ago, IPO, you know, not that long ago in the past, and now acquisition, as we said, for $2.1 billion. So, you know, give us a little bit of step back as to, you know, the journey, how we got here, and you know, what's it like to be kind of at the helm with your crew through, you know, all of those changes? >> Yep, well certainly very, very proud and very thankful to all of the customers that have been with us for many, many, many years. And as you said when you first started here, Boston is an awesome place for cybersecurity. I think I fits a bit of the personality on the East Coast, and if you just look at Boston in general there's a lot of great cybersecurity talent, a lot of great cybersecurity companies. And I'm extremely proud and grateful to all of my employees in Massachusetts who have built Carbon Black over the last number of years. And of course we have offices elsewhere across the globe, but Boston is, and Massachusetts is, where the companies roots really come from. And as you said, 2007 is when I joined the company. Obviously cyber was a very different world back then, and it's amazing if you just kind of roll back. In 2007, the idea of a CISO, of a chief information security officer, was still very new, and most companies we dealt with back then did not have a CISO, they had a network administrator or somebody, so that's all changed. If you look at security as a board-level issue, in 2007 there were certainly some areas of some sectors like the government where it had a lot of importance, but outside of that it did not have the same visibility as a strategic issue as it does now, it's been amazing. >> So much, you know, my background is networking and virtualization. I've spent a lot of time, you know, since 2007 looking at all the cloud world, and as I said, back in the early 2000s security was top of mind but often bottom of budget. You know, the network people, you know, back in the day it was like, "Can't you just lock the door," or you know, "Make sure the rack is secure," and you know, "Well we'll run things over Optical," and therefore we'll know if somebody splices into it from a networking standpoint. Today, as you stated, clearly it's a board-level discussion, CISOs, you know, rising power in the organization, and often dictating a lot of how the stack is built out there. >> Absolutely. >> So wow, bring us a little bit, you know, your portfolio. You know, security is not a thing. You know, any customer I talk to, they're like, you know, there is no such thing as a silver bullet in security. Most customers I talk to really think of security as a programmatic effort, so help us understand a little bit, you know, where Carbon Black fits today, and then we'll get into, you know, your, you know, broadened scope once you're going to be under VMware. >> Yeah, so the core founding idea behind Carbon Black was a simple one, which was that fundamentally the adversary was in a position where they eventually would figure out a way to get in, and if you fundamentally believe that then you do everything you can to stop the adversary, but you say, "I need telemetry. "I need data in order to understand what's happening across my environment in order to be able to see and stop the adversary." And so we began a journey to essentially be able to collect and analyze all the data that an adversary, that an attacker would touch in order to run their program, and you know, we always have equated it to essentially a movie camera that allows you to rewind the tape, and with all that data that we collect we can run tremendous analytics against that in order to be able to see and stop the adversary and understand what's happening across the environment. We essentially created a market that's now called EDR endpoint detection and response, and it's that simple idea of being able to understand and have situational analysis, situational visibility across the whole enterprise. We did that initially on-premise, so we did all that analytics, and each one of our customers' back-ends in their data center, and two years ago we began a journey to say, "Look, we want to do two things." One is we want to leverage that data to be able to provide more security capabilities across a platform, so let's revolutionize, continue to revolutionize cybersecurity by offering a cloud-based platform, we're going to move all of that analytics up into the cloud, all those capabilities up into the cloud, and offer a multi-tenant, cloud native SaaS platform, and over the last two years we've done that with multiple services now up on that cloud, with thousands of customers who are using it, and the benefits of the cloud are pretty straightforward, and they've revolutionized other industries, they're revolutionizing cyber right now. Certainly you can analyze data at a scale that's just not possible when that data's locked up in multiple customers, so that's one big change. Obviously-- >> Yeah, I just, to want to help unpack and tease out that data piece, because you know, we always hear out there it almost, you know, is a bit trite, you know, the importance of data. Data's the new oil, it's the rocket ship, but you know, the value of that data, how much of that is Carbon Black leveraging the data, how much can the customer themselves take advantage of that data, or you know, this isn't in a vacuum. There are other security products, other pieces of, you know, that vendor's stack that might be able to leverage that data. >> Yeah, well Carbon Black's cloud native platform, security platform, is built on a totally, it's totally open, so from an API basis, so you should, you should think about, our customers certainly think about it this way, as one, we're leveraging that data, we analyze a trillion security events a day, one trillion, just immense, and the benefit of that is if we see something across the globe that has a high risk score, that's known malware, that might be a new form of attack, that might be a living-off-the-land attack, all of our customers get the benefit of that analytic. So Carbon Black, we certainly leverage it, but in addition, the way we've built the platform, customers can get access to all the data from their enterprise, and they can correlate that data with other aspects of their security or their IT infrastructure in order to build a more holistic view across the entire enterprise, and we also have third party partners out there, managed security service providers and others, who also have access to that data for their customer set to be able to run analytics on it. So when we think about data, as you said, you know, as the oil of the new world, we need to leverage that data, but we also need, in this new world order, to give our partners and our customers the capabilities to do what they want with that data as well for their own data. >> Yeah, love that, especially if you're talking in that cloud native world it can't just be something that's locked up and only used in one environment. You know, we track the observability companies out there, you know, they have similar type of messaging. Of course data protection, you know, once there is that, you know, breach, you know, how do I recover from this information? So that ripple effect, and love, you know, openness, APIs, making sure that can be shared. You know, maybe not something that traditionally I'd heard from VMware when you talk about the openness and where they're doing maybe. I think there are a couple things you want to talk about Carbon Black, but why not get to the VMware piece, too? >> Yeah, I was just going to, on the cloud side, you know, the power of the cloud, obviously it's revolutionized other industries, and certainly one of it is the ability to provide analytics at scale. The other piece, which I already mentioned, is the network effect on my ability to see something somewhere across the globe and help millions of other customers across the globe when I see something, and the other piece is just my ability to deploy quickly and my ability to innovate quickly, because rather than having to deliver new software into each enterprise I can do that on my cloud native platform. So I think it positions the defender, the security teams around the globe where they can be more on the offensive than they've ever been before because suddenly I don't have to spend my time worrying about deployment mechanics or other pieces. I can focus on what I really want to do, which is I want to secure my environment, I want to be able to understand what the adversary might be doing. So we're real excited about what we've done over the last two years with our cloud platform. >> Okay, so the deal hasn't closed yet but it's announced that you will be leading up the cloud security group at VMware. Give us a little bit, you know, directionally, where's that heading, what will that mean? Of course we've tracked, you know, where VMware touches a lot of that environment, you know, with my background in networking I talked to the Nicira team before, and then through what's become a very successful NSX, Sanjay Poonen with the AirWatch acquisition and where they've gone. Of course I would expect that's the closest piece that you started out with the endpoint protection with that team, with the Workforce ONE. So explain kind of the security portfolio, and interesting, cloud security is the discussion because that's the newer piece of the Carbon Black portfolio. Help us understand how the whole, all the pieces fit together. >> Yeah, so first I'll just reiterate what you said, which is the transaction's not yet closed, so everything I'm talking about is pre-closed, and obviously post-close we'll have additional commentary about what everything will look like. But absolutely we are very, my team, my customers, we announced the transaction a little over a month ago. Everyone was really, really excited, and I think fundamentally they're excited because organizations understand what Carbon Black delivers today, and what we deliver are great security products, and increasingly the majority of those products are in the cloud. And VMware has a tremendous reputation in the industry for the technical capabilities, for the value that they provide to customers, and just for the breadth of the portfolio that they have. You mentioned a few of them, right? And many organizations and people think about VMware from a virtualization standpoint. But increasingly over the last few years they've dramatically expanded their portfolio, network virtualization, and the NSX, the Workspace ONE as well, which was based on the AirWatch acquisition they did. Those are big businesses today, and they're helping organizations transform their infrastructure, the way they manage devices, et cetera. And so Carbon Black, on the security side, we've been partnered with VMware for the last couple of years. We've had an opportunity to get to know each other quite well. We've had an opportunity to integrate in two key spots. One, we've integrated with their App D capabilities, which you can think about essentially as helping to protect and provide telemetry for what's happening inside of the virtualized environment. And then secondarily, we've also partnered with Workspace ONE as well, again more on the device side. Those are two natural points where security, building security intrinsically into that compute stack, we've seen with customer reaction, has a fundamental impact on being able to have security right there rather than having to bolt it on afterwards. >> Yeah, you walk into an interesting configuration. First of all, you know, as you said VMware not thought of as a security company per se, lots of products that absolutely fit in the security space and are there. When you look out, of course VMware, you know, primarily owned by Dell, there's Secureworks, there's RSA, those are well known security brands. You know, how, give us how you think of how all those pieces go together and kind of the trajectory of where things are headed. >> Yeah, well goal number one, once we close the transaction, goal number one is to do two things. One, we're going to continue to drive forward with the cloud roadmap that we have. It's an aggressive road map we've been innovating aggressively over the last couple of years and we're going to continue to do that within VMware. The second piece is obviously to maximize the opportunity to build security into the compute stack of VMware, so that when customers think about security they don't have to think about it as a separate piece, but it's already there at their fingertips. And then as you mentioned, so those are two big goals right there, and as you mentioned obviously Dell has a large portfolio. There's other security products within the Dell portfolio, and you know, when we think about that obviously over time we're already partnered with some of those. Secureworks, for example, has been a very close and valuable part of Carbon Black's for many years. You'll see us continue to partner. There's other parts of the Dell family where we have partnered in the past, not tightly, but I think we'll have the opportunity to do more as part of the Dell family. All of this means for customers more value, because rather than having to go and figure it out themselves we're going to be delivering it in conjunction with the solutions they're already using. >> All right, Patrick, I want to help you, have you address a schism I see in the marketplace when it comes to the messaging around security. When peers of mine went to the RSA conference this year they came back almost unanimously with two words, doom and gloom. >> (laughing) Right. >> In Boston this year Amazon held the inaugural re:Inforce, positioned itself as the, you know, cloud security conference for the industry. We covered that, you know, both of those shows with theCUBE, and Stephen Schmidt from AWS said the state of cloud security is strong. VMware, very much we hear from Pat, you know, we need to do over, security's broken. Friends of mine in the security industry, and Carbon Black's been around since 2002, is you know, come on, you know, it's not just another acquisition, it's going to be a point product. You know, yes we have work to do as a whole, but you know, saying we need a do over or it's broken is a between hyperbolic from my peers in the industry, so what is the state of the industry, is there traditional storage and cloud storage is all rainbows and unicorns, or you know, where do you see it today? Of course we know as an industry there's always work to do, but you know, how do you round that circle? >> Yeah, I would take it, and you're right, by the way, I hear all the same commentary, and I think we have to take a step back and just look at industry, the industry in general, look at security in general. We started the interview talking about well, what was the world like in security in 2007? Security has gone from, "Hey, it's a niche area over here "and we know it's important but don't talk to us," to super strategic, again, at a board level, at a company level, and so that rapid growth has driven a lot of funding into the environment, a lot of vendors, there's over 5,000 security vendors out there today, all competing. I don't know how CISOs and CIOs and practitioners really figure out who does what, it's very challenging, and at the same time you've got the adversary, this third party continuing to advance their attack types using new techniques. You've got ransomware, which is a huge industry now, driving billions of dollars, so you have all of that happening, and so in hyper growth environments like that you get a lot of vendors. The average enterprise security team has 75 different products, and so, and they have to stitch that together, so the fundamentals of what, the way you described it I think are accurate on both sides. One, security's broken, it is broken. We've got too many vendors and we're bolting it on, we got to fix that. VMware is in a position, partnered with Carbon Black, to do that I think really well. The second piece is that the cloud does allow us, I'm not sure about rainbows, but the cloud does allow us to change security fundamentally because of some of the characteristics that I described earlier, and if you take Carbon Black plus VMware, plus what VMware is doing to deliver across any cloud, any device, any application, I think we're in a really interesting spot to help customers get more value from their compute stack and from security. >> You know, one of the things that VMware has always done well is they play in multiple environments. Back in the early days of server ritualization, didn't matter what hardware, they would get that across. Their cloud strategy went through quite a few iterations, you know, Sanjay Poonen came on our program and said, you know, "vCloud Air, we failed. "We got it wrong, we did it," but today every cloud show I go to there's a VMware piece of that. They're partnering with AWS, with Azure, with Google, with Alibaba, with Oracle even-- (chuckling) And IBM recently. But still one of the critiques I have for VMware is VMware does good at managing their house, but security, customers, as you said, they've got 75 tools and they're going to have their VMware state, and they're going to have their native cloud pieces, and they're going to have their non-VMware environment. So how can, you know, once you're under VMware, you know, participate in that environment? Will you primarily be VMware environment and the VMware cloud environment, or will it be a broader cloud security strategy? >> Yeah, well I think certainly VMware has done an amazing job over the last few years of really pushing this any-cloud model, right? "Hey, no matter where your workloads "are going to be in a hybrid cloud environment," you know, "we're going to be there to help you," and more effectively, more efficiently, faster, better performance, strong ROI. And so if you look at Carbon Black's roots, and I mentioned this earlier, one of our core beliefs is that one vendor can't do it all. You have to build on an open, extensible API-based platform, and that's what we've done since the beginning of the company, and so you will not see Carbon Black change our philosophy. You know, we will continue to be very, very open, and I think, by the way, that reflects very much VMware's strategy as of late, which is an open strategy where they're playing with lots of providers in the marketplace. Again, the benefit of Carbon Black plus VMware on that platform is that for VMware infrastructure, their products, I think you're going to see out of the box security capabilities that are going to give advantage to customers, from ease of use, from the way that that security works, et cetera, and then we will continue to partner with other vendors out there across the market. >> All right, Patrick, we know, you mentioned how many different tools customers have to deal with. There are more new threats coming out, you know, every day. There's no way that a person or a team can keep up with all of this, so you know, is AI the answer? How are these technologies going to be able to allow our systems to be able to protect us better and update, you know, we haven't talked abut AI yet. I know it does fit in-- >> We have to talk about AI. (chuckling) >> So just to understand how you know, the systems and the software and the solutions are going to help enable teams to be able to keep up with, you know, the rapidly expanding and changing landscape in security. >> Yeah, AI is a tool, we use it, and just as I've mentioned cloud, right, along with the ability to analyze trillions of events on a daily basis, things like AI can play a very significant role in helping me to understand what's happening across very large corpuses of data, and so we use a lot of it, and that allows us to understand when there's an anomaly somewhere across the globe on some system, some endpoint or device, anywhere across the globe and then leverage that to help our other customers. So AI role is playing an important part. It will continue to play an important part. But AI leverages the data that we collect, so if you go back to where Carbon Black is today with all that data that we're analyzing, one of the really interesting things is VMware today has 70 million VMs. 60 million of those are on-prem, 10 million of them are on the cloud. Part of the benefit that Carbon Black gets from VMware is we're going to get all this additional telemetry that we're going to be able to, again, consume, leverage AI capabilities to help with the analysis of that, and again, provide more customer back to the value on seeing and stopping the adversary. That also extends to what VMware's doing on the device side with Workspace ONE, et cetera, so there's a lot of opportunity over the coming quarters and years to provide more value for customers in understanding what's happening across their environment because of all of the touchpoints we're going to have as part of the VMware compute stack. >> All right, Patrick, final thing, what does this mean for your customers? You know, I think back to, you know, not that long ago you did an IPO, you know? What would that mean for the growth, the investment into technology and growing the team. Now, you know, in industry parlance, you know, you had another exit and you will be part of VMware, so we might not get as much visibility into the specific revenues and the hiring that you're doing there, but what will this ultimately mean for Carbon Black's current and potential future customers? >> Yeah, so we have over 5,000 global customers out there today, and first and foremost it's going to mean more investment from a product roadmap standpoint. If you look at 2019, this year, the number one area of investment for Carbon Black was in R&D, and as we move forward, again post-close, our customers are going to see continued investment in the platform, in our cloud security platform, in order to ensure we continue to bring more capabilities to market. And then, as I said earlier, in conjunction with that do everything we can to integrate in with the VMware product portfolio, again, so that security's not bolted on but it's intrinsic to the compute stack, and so I think that's the biggest thing. I have had the opportunity to go out and speak to many customers over the last four weeks. Customer and partner reaction has been outstanding. They get it, they understand it, they understand that there's a better way and that's what we're going to be doing as part of VMware. >> Yeah, any surprising nuggets in the last month talking to the customers and partners more that you've learned? >> This is going to sound self-serving, but it's the truth. I will tell you that the VMware reputation out there is outstanding. I mean, and I had been surprised at how little I have to do to tell them why this makes so much sense. They get it, the majority of our customers get it. They understand the possibilities of what we can provide, and there's a level of excitement out there, again with our customers and partners. It's just, it's awesome. >> All right, Patrick Morley, CEO of Carbon Black. Thank you so much for joining us on theCUBE. >> Stu, thanks. >> All right, lots of coverage, of course, through 2019 and gearing up for 2020 where we'll all have perfect hindsight, I'm sure. Check out thecube.net for the events we've been at, search where we're going to be, and please reach out if you have any questions. I'm Stu Miniman, and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (techy music)

>> Live from Anaheim, California, it's the Cube! Covering Nutanix.next 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back, everyone, to the Cube's live coverage of Nutanix.Next here in Anaheim. I'm Rebecca Knight, your host along with my cohost, John Furrier. We are the Cube. We are the ESPN of tech. We have two tech athletes on with us today. We have Asvin Ramesh, AVP marketing and alliances technology services at Cognizant. Welcome. And we have Inder Sidhu, EVP global customer success at Nutanix. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Inder. >> Thank you. >> So why don't I start with you. For viewers who are not familiar with Cognizant, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do, what you're all about. >> Sure, so Cognizant is one of the world's leading professional services companies. We focus on transforming clients' business model, operating model and technology model. Naztech listed at 16 billion revenue last year. We are a Fortune 200 company. We work with about half of the Fortune 200 companies. And companies trust us to help transform the work that they're doing. >> Those are tall orders. (laughs) So what are you hearing from customers right now? What are their biggest challenges that they're facing? >> So, I think customers are basically in two buckets, as we see it, right? We see customers who are inherently excited about the challenges that they're facing, and there are other customers who are still grappling how to figure out the onslaught that's coming at them. And if I just abstract this beyond technology into the overall spectrum of how I look at it, it really transforms to what I call, are customers set or not? And that translates to social, economic and technology. There are a lot of social changes that are happening because of all the things that are going on. How well are companies able to adapt to those social changes? Really makes a difference in their ability to engage with the consumer. There are a lot of economic changes, economic martyrs that are being brought. How well are companies being able to adapt to those economic models? And more importantly from where Nutanix and Cognizant sit, technology is playing a huge role, both on the social and the economic angle. So how do companies leverage technology to be able to drive that change? And how well you do these three things really makes a difference in customers' lives. >> Talk about the relationship with Nutanix. What's the relationship? Obviously partner, you have customers. They got the software now and hardware before, all coming together. What's the relationship how you guys work together? >> It's fantastic. We've been a partner with Nutanix for more than three years. And, I think the critical piece and foundational elements of the partnership with Nutanix, more than the products that they bring out because they're constantly innovating all the time, I think is on a bedrock of transparency, flexibility, and specificity. So there's a lot of transparency in terms of their roadmap, and we get a sense of where they're headed. They get a sense of where we're headed and how we are focused and what our strategy is. That allows us to really lock into what the customer's demanding. Second is flexibility with the elements that I talked about around social, economic and technology. It's very important for a flexible combination, because I kind of look at this age of cooptition as a battle of ecosystems. So, we are locked in with Nutanix in this battle of ecosystems, so in my role, I build value chains, and Nutanix is a critical partner in that value chain and being able to adopt to what the customers are demanding of us, and we are very specific about what we do in the market place. Because all of us have choices, and it's very important to be specific to solving customers' issues. It's been a great partnership-- >> It's interesting, we always talk on the Cube around automation. DevOps has been a big driver with multi cloud now. If you have all these value activities strung together in a set of value chains, no one company can own it all. But automation requires end-to-end visibility, so the big trend we're seeing is who's going to enable that? Because I can imagine, your environment you can talk to the top customers. We do the Cube hundreds of events a year. The same theme comes back over and over again on the Cube. It's a refrain. It's the anthem of the customer which is, look, I need to innovate my business model. I got to move quickly to a new operating model cloud. 'Cause they all taste the cloud, and they want the cloud everywhere. And then they want to make sure they have a technology partner. So all three of those theaters are exploding in innovation, and all at the same time. This has been a big challenge. How do you guys work together to address the business model innovation, the operating model challenges, the skill gaps training or whatever? And then obviously technology selection? >> So I think the most important thing is to be able to sense and engage, right? I think that's where it starts. If you've built a ecosystem of the value chain, in our case with Nutanix, in a way that we stay close to the consumer changes, we build a method of engagement that allows us to sense and engage better. I think that addresses a big part of what you talked about. Then it's about figuring out what elements of technology and being able to advise the customer in the right way in their journey to what they want to achieve in introducing those technologies to the table. >> Inder, I want to bring you in here on this. You are the EVP of customer success at Nutanix. You have a lot of success. You have net supporter scores on 90 which is really unheard of in this industry. I think so many people out there watching this want to know what is your secret sauce. How do you get that? (laughs) >> I think it's a combination of things. I think the first and foremost is being extremely customer centric in everything that you do, not as a function within the company but across the company. Customer success isn't just a function. It's a philosophy; it's a cultural value. It's a mindset; it's everybody's job. You got to start there. Second, you hire people who have a great deal of empathy for the customer and a great deal of expertise in what the customer is looking for. So to bring empathy and they're deeply technical in terms of bringing that expertise and actually applying that towards the customer's problems. And then, maybe the third thing I'd say is always being focused on the customer's outcomes as opposed to your own desire to either sell more services or more products or whatever, because if you're customer-outcome centric, everything else follows from that. Keeping that as a north star, I think has been the primary factor that's driven that. There's one other thing that I'd add to that, and that is something, I think, John, you were referring to a little bit earlier which is this notion of automation. So in the past, people would drive customer success by throwing more and more bodies at the problem, more and more people at the problem. That's so yesterday, right? Now it's all about, you still need people, absolutely, but you need to empower them with a great deal of data, with a great deal of insight, with a great deal of automation. Do that in real time, be predictive, be proactive, and so on. That last element, that secret sauce is pretty important. >> That's interesting. We had a session earlier; I talked about the tech landscape. We talked it out from cloud to politics, and how technology without accountability and responsibility with people can be a bad outcome. Right? (laughs) You give the tools to the wrong people, or someone, say government, doesn't know what the technology can do, bad outcomes happen. Same with cloud selection. When you start to get in some of these new areas where this market shift's going on, where there's real lives on the line in terms of jobs, re-skilling training, you guys are on the cusp of this next shift. You're on the front lines, putting it all together as a global SI for all the top customers. So digital's transformation, although it sounds very buzz-wordy, is actually real in the sense that these are material changes to companies, how they're operating and their business model. So the impact's pretty high, so the role of people is super important. What's going on there? How's the progress, in your view? Are customers ready? Are they getting trained up? Are their IQs moving faster? Are they more accountable? >> Couple of observations over there, I think I would say that in the last 90 days, I've probably met 100 customers. I don't think there's probably, with the exception of maybe a couple, I don't think there's been any conversation where talent hasn't come up. Specifically, the shortage of talent. Which is why, by the way, it becomes hugely critical for us to have partners like Cognizant with whom we have a fantastic relationship. They are so complementary and so critically interwoven into our skill and their skill jointly. Every customer basically says, look, I used to have a virtualization admin, a security admin, a network admin, a database admin, and this, that and the other. And what you've done is you've hyper-converged, not only technology but you've hyper-converged the roles. Well, hyper-converging the roles means you need one person instead of 10 people, but that one is really hard one to find. So help me train them and work with your partners to bring that capability. So talent shortage, especially as you move away from the larger metropolitan areas, is a real issue. And we're working towards that. We're trying to address that by making products simpler. As you know, that's been a hallmark of Nutanix is simplicity and support and service. Those have been our hallmark. So making it simpler is very key, but no matter how simple you make it, you still need that element of human intelligence, human touch, and the automation. Those are the ways. >> And the risk, too, from the customers, love to get the integration standpoint, because, one, that's a lever for you guys. You get leverage out of that. When you take 10 to one or reduce down the roles, hyper-converge things, but the outcome is pretty positive. You're enabling new things, but it allows for people to be redeployed, as well. The existing roles, they're not really going away. They just get shifted. So, yes we need more people, need new people, but also, the dynamic of fear. Is my job going away? So there's leverage and you get efficiencies and potentially redeployment capabilities. How's that affecting your job at Cognizant? >> So, at Cognizant, people are extremely core to the way we operate, so, as I mentioned, we are a $16 billion organization, but we are almost 200,000 people. 185,000, just to be precise. So, for us, the retraining and re-skilling of people is ingrained in the way we've operated since our inception 25 years ago. And it's about two, three things. One is a basic understanding that while technology curves at exponential, the change management in people are linear. So that fundamental understanding of that shift is very important that we continue to invest into the training and change management of individuals to allow them to progress through the value curve as technology shifts happen. And for that, you need both a culture and a structure for that to happen. And because we have grown through this environment, we have Cognizant Academy, and we have few other systems and processes and communication elements that we have put in place that allow our employees to grow as the technology shifts happen. That's one. Second piece is, I think, a very important reason why customers work with us is because we understand their industry. So we serve almost 20 industries, but almost 70 to 80% of our revenue comes from a few industries. And customers really engage and continue to work with us because of our deep understanding of their business, right? So it's this ability to be able to understand technology and the progress of technology from companies like Nutanix. And then, be able to stitch that appropriately to the business of the customer, and put a structure in place that allows the shift to happen, that allows us to grow. >> But going back to what Inder said earlier, so many of the skills that are necessary today, I mean, yes of course, it's about keeping up with the shifts in technology, but so many of the reasons that Nutanix has been successful is that its employees are empathetic, that they listen, that they're paying attention, that they ask good follow-up questions. So when you're talking about Cognizant Academy and the re-skilling, are you also helping them learn these important skills? >> No, I think, I have a 10-year-old son, so as I think about what his future would look like, I definitely feel that the relevance of IQ, as a race is reducing, and empathy to the point that Inder made and your EQ is far more important. And we live in this world where the virtual world is almost taking over the physical world. We're on that cusp, right? Somewhere. >> You're talking John's language there. (laughs) >> You can take a guess on who's ahead and who's losing. So it becomes very important not only to build a sense of empathy in the real world but also a sense of empathy in the virtual world, in the way you communicate with customers, in the way you listen to customers, how you listen to customers and engage. So that is a very critical component of how we train our employees so that we're continuously staying ahead, in terms of even sensing and engaging with them. >> One of the things that brings up in conversation we had earlier with a customer, they love the efficiencies of how you guys can collapse with the hyper convergence which you've done in modern enterprise now and going to the cloud, you know, hyper-converged clouds, we get that strategy, and I think it's going to be bigger than you guys forecast in my opinion. But what that really points to is a cultural shift. And the cultural shift is, okay, I had this before, all this legacy stuff. Then it's the question of, okay, how do I get people on the right tune here? How do I organize internally? So it's not so much a technology decision. It's more of a cultural decision. And so I asked the CIO of a big consumer company who came in to transform this big conglomerate. You'd know their name if I said it. He said, when he walked in, the biggest problem that they had is they outsourced everything in the 90s to the point where in the 2000s, they were so efficient. They had the storage admin, and they had all these roles, and they were holding the gear down. They had perimeter base security; they were perfect. But they had lost their competencies during software. So as the world shifts to software, a lot of CIOs are being asked essentially to build software teams. So the new changeover combined with the new efficiencies is they have to boot up development teams, infrastructure all the way to the top of the stacks. It's challenging, so I know you guys do a lot of work there, in this area, in helping companies transform. This is a huge challenge. How do you go from being lean and nimble, operationally, to having fewer core competency in software development, automation, machine learning? There's not enough people to hire, so this seems to be a core challenge. >> Yeah, I think if I look at the core challenge, in terms of areas to focus, clearly, people focus historically on infrastructure technologies. They need to focus on two additional areas. Let me elaborate what they are. One of them is absolutely the new move towards DevOps, containerization, those kinds of newer technologies that play not in the CIO's shop but in the development side of the house. And there's clearly a focus within Nutanix on the product side and on the people side to emphasize that, and we work with customers on that. The second thing is actually a little bit related to what Asvin was saying. What we find when we engage with customers is again and again if there's an issue, it turns out nine times out of 10 it's not because of a technology. It's either because there was an operational deficiency in their processes, or there was an organizational lack of proficiency or just something financial. So, when I put customer success managers onto accounts, the biggest thing that they do is they create a customer success plan that actually focuses number one on operational practices. Do you have run books? Do you have controls? Do you have automation? Do you have monitoring? Do you have callback information? Do you have all of that so that your processes are robust? It's entirely customer centric. It's independent of technology or only mildly related. That's one. Second, do you have the organizational skills, the capabilities that these people need to have? Can you get them sandboxes or training? Can you get them certified, et cetera, et cetera? Can you move them up? And then, of course, the last thing is financial which is, can you look at it in a larger context, not just of a technology decision but of a financial decision relative to total cost of ownership, return on the investment, cloud versus private, et cetera, et cetera. >> And software seems to be the theme in all of this. >> Software, absolutely-- >> Software rules. >> Software rules. (all laugh) Well, everyone's a software company now. >> Yes. >> That's right. Especially the Cube. (laughs) Inder, Asvin, thank you both so much for coming on the Cube. This was a pleasure. >> Absolutely, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. You are watching the Cube. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Anaheim, California, it's theCUBE, covering Nutanix .NEXT 2019, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix .NEXT here in Anaheim, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, John Ferrier. We have two guests for this segment. We have PJ Farmer, she is the Director, Cloud Product Management at TierPoint. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, I'm very excited. >> Rebecca: And we have David Hines, VP, Architecture and Engineering at TierPoint. Thanks, David. >> Yes, thank you. >> So, for our viewers that maybe unfamiliar with TierPoint, can you tell us all about this St. Louis based company, what you do, give us an introduction. >> Oh, absolutely. So, TierPoint is a managed services, data services, and colocation provider. We have a broad footprint. We have over 40 data centers in the United States, and we have a broad portfolio of services we offer because we're really interested in meeting customers where they are in their digital transfortation, or transformation, excuse me. So everything from colo to cloud and beyond, we offer because customers come to us for a consultative approach. They have a problem, they needed solutions, and we can offer them those solutions, right. So we manage all of that. >> So you're helping them with their digital transformations and everything. >> Absolutely. >> And where does Nutanix come into play here? >> So, Nutanix is a part of that cloud services really that we're offering our customers, but also giving them a dedicated environment really that they can manage their workloads, but also have some more control, security, compliance, so that overall, the customers end up with a solution that helps them drive their business forward. And of course, TierPoint, our goal is to make sure that we're taking care of all that underlying infrastructure and systems and components, so again, the customer can focus on driving their business forward, and taking that burden off of IT and Nutanix is a great platform that really helps enable us and enable our customers, at the end of the day. >> Talk about the technical challenges you guys had before Nutanix, after Nutanix. What changed, what was the journey like, how did the door open up for them? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So, I think overall, we as technologists, work very hard to piece together solutions, varied solutions, to provide a platform for our customers that they can consume, but that is challenging, right, as a company, technology changes quickly. There are a lot of different vendors in the marketplace offering a lot of different technologies, and I think one of the things that we see as a huge value for Nutanix, is they've got a very complete platform, across the spectrum. It's not just a box with compute and storage. It is so much more than that, and so for us, that's very exciting, it's very intriguing, and something that really helps us be efficient, and also our customers, be efficient. >> So, digital transformation is something that we're talking about so much, on theCUBE in general, here at this show. What are you hearing from customers and what is sort of their bugaboos and their pain points? >> So, we recently had a customer who, their hypervisor of choice is something they're super familiar with, right. They have a great amount of comfort, but over time they can see, there could be some cost savings in Nutanix, with going with the Acropolis hypervisor that's included. So our customer came to us and said, hey, can you help us with this? Said, absolutely. So they are in our data center, we're taking care of them, we are consulting through their transformation and they are starting out with what they're comfortable with and as time changes and as they mature and transition, we're gonna help them get there, right. We're gonna help them change, if it's a hypervisor, if it's a different service, if it's a different way to set it up and present it out to their innovative IT developers, right. We're gonna help them do that. >> Talk about, can you guys share your insight into how you're operating the business? I mean obviously, you've got customers, a lot of customers. What's it like, operating this? 'Cause you got developers out there who want applications to be supported. I'm sure you got latency challenges around. We went to the cloud, a lot of multi-cloud conversations. People still gotta store stuff in their data centers or colos. So the edge, the network change, all these things are evolving. What's going on inside your company, in terms of how you operate? >> So, that's a great question. So, it is challenging to keep up with that landscape as it evolves but we are investing heavily in that. So the great thing about TierPoint, is we are in these edge markets. That is one of our real value adds, and so we're investing very heavily in our network. We also have some really strong partnerships with carriers that give us that on-ramp into the hyperscale. So it really helps complete that multi-cloud story that customers need. So yeah, they can come to us, colocate that equipment that they really have to hold on to, mainframes, mid-range servers, other legacy systems, while gaining that connectivity to those hyperscale environments. And then there's the middle, the middle where we provide a layer, like Nutanix, that gives them that enterprise type cloud. But again, it's dedicated to them, it's in our data center, it's local to their other systems, while also getting that reach to the hyperscale. So it's a really, really powerful story for us. >> On the hypervisor challenge question, this is interesting, we hear people saying, I got Hyper-Vi, I got Hyper-V, I got VMware, I wanna just use, Nutanix' got their own hypervisor. AVH has been an interesting product for Nutanix. The full stack is compelling for a lot of customers, but you guys probably have a lot of customers who wanna parole their own, or bring their own hypervisor. How do you deal with that, does that fit in to the value proposition? >> Well, I think there is some talk about the hypervisor, maybe being irrelevant, like it's obsolete, it's not something to be concerned about, and I think Dave said it earlier, best today, he said that-- >> John: You could be nice when you say that, by the way. >> I'm sorry, what? >> John: A lot of people are saying that. >> Well, yeah, a lot of people are saying that. I just think it's less of a focus, right, because TierPoint helps people focus on what is innovative, what is your business outcome, what are you really doing for your business? So I feel like the hypervisor is just less of a focus, right, than it is necessarily, not important. >> It's more commodity now. >> Yeah. >> It is, and we don't want the customers to have to focus on that, because again, IT really needs to drive business, not be a drag on business and so the less that they have to focus, as an IT organization, on the maintenance and management of infrastructure, and even up the stack towards operating systems, where we can take that burden off of them, then again, they can be a leader for their business and driving the business as a whole, not be held back. >> Okay, what's the playbook for doing that, not being a drag on the business? Because that's what everyone wants to do but they might have legacy stuff. What's the playbook? >> The playbook, is being a part of that business discussion and when the business itself is making decisions about how to drive forward, IT has that seat at the table, and again, is thinking about, how can we drive savings or cost cutting, how can we enable transactions, how can we enable the customer base? And not thinking about, oh, do I have my storage system updated, am I dealing with the old boxes that I have to replace, and do I have power and cooling problems in a data center. They don't need to be dealing with that. They need to be up front with the business, making business decisions. >> What you're talking about, really represents a complete shift in the role of the technologist. Do they have the skills to be thinking about, they obviously, can think about more than just the maintenance, and do I have the storage, and things like that. But does there need to be much more education around these business strategy questions that they should be thinking about? As you said, this is their role, to really help the business transform. >> David: Yeah. >> So, I think that often times I see people feel like they are just technology, oh, I'm just hands on keyboard, I'm doing this, but what their exposure and their natural interests, lead them to have a broad picture of how things can work, what is expected, and how do these things operate, what have I had experience with, and when they have a seat at the table and they're making, with the business decisions, they have value to add there. Right. That value is in that perspective, what they've seen, because that may not be forefront for some of the other business leaders at the table, right? And it is a collaborative discussion, that generates quality output, that generates innovation, that generates thinking outside of the box, and unique solutions that really lead the market. >> But I do think it really does, to your point, mean new education, new skills for these IT technologists and so that's part of, we've gone through this at TierPoint, transforming the engineers and the technologists that we have working on our staff and really teaching them new ways to work, new ways to think, new ways to collaborate, so that they're helping us move the business forward and not sitting behind a keyboard, isolated from the business itself. >> I was gonna ask you about the skill gap 'cause one of the things that comes up as the shift at DevOps is happening, with more development going on to make the infrastructure programmable so it's not a drag on the business, changing roles are a huge thing 'cause Nutanix essentially, the values, they enable new things to happen, the result is consolidation, so it's not consolidation as the primary. You get consolidation as a benefit of what they do. So people be like, whoa, what do I do now? But the benefit is people shift. So the IT Ops role has changed, it's best probably to get it before the operations. Where do you guys see that trend evolving? Because if this continues with AI and automation, you can almost imagine it's completely programmable infrastructure. >> Yeah, we do see a consolidation of Siloed Technologists, right, so this idea of I'm only a network engineer, I'm only a storage engineer, I'm only a cloud engineer, that is definitely going away and again, we've done this at TierPoint. We've kind of mixed those roles, right, educate the staff, but from additional education programmability, somebody'd be able to do the automation and the development in an engineering role verses having a separate development team working on that. It's gonna be really important as companies evolve their groups. >> I think you've had a lot of infrastructure engineers that 20 years ago, 15 years ago, knew Pearl, they knew scripting, they knew these things, and as time has gone on, now they know APIs, now they know RESTful APIs, now they're interacting, but we all know, in IT, it's always change and it's always learning, I mean, you got into this, right. So I think a lot of the infrastructure engineers, over time, are finding they were already automating things in some ways and they're becoming more mature in the ways that they automate things, right? I think it's a great transition as they go on, yeah. >> So, talk about the relationship with Nutanix. What's it like, partnering with them? They got a lot of momentum in enabling a partner strategy. We saw news with Hewlett Packard enterprise, potential channel opportunity there. They're a partner centric, they're partner friendly. What's it like, working with them? >> Fantastic, I mean absolutely fantastic, from go, see our customers were coming to us wanting to, they brought Nutanix to us, honestly, they came up. A lot of people that use Nutanix are like fans of Nutanix, right, you've seen some of those, and so our customers brought Nutanix to us, and as we began to see this trend, and we decided to make a private cloud product out of it, we engage with Nutanix. They've provided so many resources, they've been there for us, been very responsive. It's really been a natural and easy collaboration with them. And like you said, they do everything through partners so that has made it easy. We are another partner, right? They enable us, they know that part of their success is our success and vice versa, so it's almost like an extension of the team, which is fantastic. >> So what do you say to the new Nutanix customer that comes in, 'cause I agree with you, they're very hardcore loyal fans because they took a chance and they see benefits, so they took a chance and it paid off. It's like gambling, you put a number on the roulette wheel and it comes up black or red, whatever. They've had great success there and their promoter score is 90. But what about new people, are like, hey, I heard this Nutanix thing is out there, or software. How are you guys looking at these new opportunities, when is Nutanix a good fit? 'Cause you gotta balance it all for all your customers. >> Yeah. >> Depending on what they wanna do. >> Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. Honestly, for us it's really about enabling the higher order applications and workloads for our customers, so I don't know, unless the customer themselves is really bringing Nutanix to us, that we're having that conversation. It's really like, look, this is a solution that's gonna provide you the capabilities, and again, trying to not have the customer really worry too much about that and let us own that relationship, and as PJ mentioned, Nutanix has invested very heavily, not only in the partnership but also developing this platform and solution for us so it's been-- >> So you guys could provide it, if no one asks, just provide the best solution. >> Absolutely. >> Right. >> And that's the key, right? >> I want to ask you a question about geographics. So, I'm based in Boston, John's based in the Valley, you're a technology company based in St. Louis. I'm interested, we may just come to this with our east coast, west coast biases and I'm just, what's it like to be a technology company in St. Louis, in the heartland, do you feel part of the community? >> Oh absolutely, in fact, St. Louis really has been, you see several articles about all the startup tech in St. Louis because it is an affordable place to live. You have access to all the cities, usually direct flights, right, so from a community perspective, there's a lot more technology startups than you might think in St. Louis, but they do have access to-- >> Rebecca: And great barbecue too. >> Great barbecue, absolutely. And it really is a beautiful place. You also have lots of parks, lots of rivers, lots of outdoor, I mean, it's kinda surprising, honestly. We have a main technology center also, in Raleigh, North Carolina, so we are split between the two. >> David: Yeah. >> We do a lot of flights back and forth. >> WWT is out there too. >> RTP, yeah, the research truck will park in North Carolina, as a very big tech hub, so that split really provides a balance. There's a very big business hub in St. Louis and a lot of collaborational partnerships there from the business side, but also that Raleigh Tech Hub on the east coast is really a huge benefit to us. And a lot of our partners are there, >> PJ: And like a lot of-- >> Nutanix actually, is right there, down the street. >> We'll have to come down and visit you in North Carolina. My daughter's going to UNC >> Oh, okay. >> So I gotta find some excuses to get down there. >> That'd be great. >> Anytime. >> Maybe see your business. >> Some TierPoint shows. >> Oh, that's right. >> Exactly. >> And do a little, couple interviews. >> Anytime. >> Anytime. >> Well, thank you both so much for coming on theCUBE. It was great talking to you. >> Yeah, we really enjoyed it. >> Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for John Ferrier, you are watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

(upbeat pop music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CubeConversation. >> Hello, everyone welcome to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, California, I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE. We are here forth Inhi Cho Suh General Manager of IBM Watson, Customer Engagement, Former Cube alumni, I think she's been on dozens of times. Great to see you again. Welcome to our Palo Alto Studios. >> Yeah, great being here, John. >> So, we haven't chatted in awhile. IBM thing just happened, a little bit of a rainy event, here in February. Interesting change over since we last talked, but first give an update on what you're up to these days, what group are you leading, what's new? >> Okay, well first of all, I'm here based in California, which I'm excited about, and I lead our Watson West office, which is our Watson headquarters, here on the west coast, in downtown San Francisco, and we hosted our Think Conference, and at Think I lead with, in IBM, what we call our Watson Customer Engagement Business Unit, which is really the business applications, of how we apply Watson and other disruptive tech to a line of business audiences, both SAS and on premise software, so really excited about the areas of applying AI and machine learning as well as Blockchain to things like supply chain, and logistics, to order management, to next generation of retail. A lot of new, exciting areas. >> Yeah, we've had many conversations over the years from big data to as your career spanned across IBM, and you have a much more horizontal view of things, now. You're horizontally scalable, as we say in the cloud world. What's your observation of the trends these days? Because there's a lot waves. Actually, the waves that you guys announced, was the IBM, Watson NE ware and the cloud private ware. Marvin and I had an amazing conversation that video went viral. This is now getting a big tailwind for IBM. What's your thoughts in general about the overall ecosystem, because you're here in Silicon Valley, you've seen the big waves, you've got another big data world, cloud is here, multi cloud. What's your thoughts on the big mega-trends? >> Yeah, that's a good question. I think the first chapter of cloud, everyone ran to public cloud. When you look at it through the lens of enterprise, though, the hot topic right now in the second chapter is really about not just public cloud, but multi-cloud, hybrid cloud. Meaning, whether it's a private, public, it's about thinking about the applications and the nature of the applications and regardless of where the data sits, what are the implications of actually getting work done? Through, kind of, new container services, new ways of microservices in the development, of how APIs are integrated, and so, the hot topic right now is definitely hybrid cloud, multi cloud. And the work we've done to certify, what we call, IBM cloud private really enables us to not just take any business application to any cloud in our cloud, as well, but actually to enable Watson and Watson based applications also across multi cloud environments. >> So, chapter two, Jenny mentioned that in her key notes, I want to dig into that because we've been talking a lot about multi cloud architecture, and one of the big debates has been, in the industry, oh, don't pick a soul cloud. I've been writing a bunch of content about that at this DOD jedi deal with Amazon and Oracle, fighting for it out there, but that's also happening at the enterprise, but the reality is, everyone has multiple clouds. If you've got a sales force or if you've got this and that and the other thing, you probably have multiple clouds, so it's not so much soul cloud vs. as it is, workloads having a cloud for the right job and that seems to be validated at IBM Think, in talking to the top technical people and in the industry. They all say, pick the right cloud for the job. And we've heard that before in Big Data. Pick the right tool for the job. So, given that, workloads seem to be driving the demand for cloud. Since you're on the app side, how are you seeing that? Because the world's flipped. It used to be infrastructure and software enable the app's capabilities. Now the workloads have infrastructure as code, made with cloud, they're driving the requirements. This is a change over. >> It is a big change and part of, I would say, when people first ran to the cloud, and a lot of the public cloud services were digital SaaS services, where people were wanting to stitch multiple applications across clouds, and that became a challenge, so in this next iteration, that I'm seeing is, really, a couple things. One is, data gravity. So, where does the data actually reside, for the workload that's actually happening? Whether it's the transactions, whether it's customer information, whether it's product information, that's one piece. The second piece is a lot more analytics, right? And the spectrum of analytics running from traditional warehouse capabilities, to more, let's say, larger scale big data projects to full blown advanced algorithms and AI applications, is, people are saying, look, not only do I want to stitch these applications across multiple clouds; I also want to make sure I can actually tap into the data to apply new types of analytics and derive new services and new values out of relationships, understanding of how products are consumed, and so forth. So, for us, when we think about it is, we want to be able to enable that fluid understanding of data across the clouds, as well as protect and be thoughtful about the data privacy rights around it, compliance around GDPR, as well as how we think about the security aspects as well, for the enterprise. >> That is a great point. I think I want to drill down on the data piece, your background on data obviously is going to be key in your job now obviously, it's pretty obvious with Watson, but David Floyd, a wiki bonds research analyst, just posted a taxonomy of hybrid cloud research report that laid out the different kinds of cloud you could have. There's edge clouds, there's all kinds of things from public to edge, so when you look at that, you're thinking, okay, the data plain is the critical nature of the cloud. Now, depending on which cloud architecture for the use case, the workload, whatever, the data plain seems to be this magical opportunity. AI is going to have a big part of that. Can you just talk about how you guys see that evolving? Because, obviously, AI is a killer part of your strategy. This data piece is inter-operating across the clouds. >> Yes. >> Data management governs you're smiling, cause there's a killer answer coming. >> Totally. This is such a great set up. Actually, Ginni even said it in her keynote at Think, which was, you can't have an AI strategy without an information architecture strategy, which is an IA strategy, and information architecture is all about what you said: it's data preparation; understanding the foundation of it, making sure you've got the right governance structure, the integration of it, and then actually how you apply the more advanced analytics on top. So, information architecture and thinking about the data aspects in all kinds of data. Majority of the data actually sits behind, what I would say, the traditional public firewall. So, it sits behind the firewalls of our enterprise clients, like 80 plus percent of it, and then, many of the clients, we actually recently did a study, with about 5,000 senior executives, across many, many thousands of organizations, and 85% of them want to apply AI to improve their customer service, to improve the way they engage their clients and their products and services, so this is a huge opportunity right now for pretty much every organization to think through; kind of their data strategy. Their information architecture strategy, as part of their overall AI strategy. >> So, a question a got on twitter comes up a lot, and, also on my notes here, I wanted to ask you is, how can companies increase transparency trust and mitigate bias in AI? Because this comes up a lot and that's the questions that come in from the community is, Hey, I got my site, my apps running in Germany. I've got users over there, I'm global. I have to manage compliance, I got all this governess now, I'm over my shoulders, kind of a pain in the butt, but also I don't want to have the software be skewed on bias and other things, and then, I also get this whole Facebook dynamic going on, where it's like, I don't trust people holding my data. This is a big, huge issue. >> It is enormous. >> You guys are in the middle of it, what's your thoughts, what's the update, what's the dynamic and what's the solution? >> So, this is a big topic. I think we could do a whole episode just on this topic alone. So, trust and developing trust and transparency in AI should be a fundamental requirement across many, many different types of institutions. So, first of all, the responsibility doesn't sit only with the technology vendors; it's a shared responsibility across government institutions, the consumers, as well as the business leaders, in terms of how they're thinking about it. The more important piece, though, is when you think about the population that's available, that really understands AI, and they're actually coding and developing on it, is that we have to think about the diverse population that's participating in the governance of it, because you don't want just one tribe or one group that's coding and developing the algorithms, or deciding the decision models. >> Like the nerds or the geeks; they're a social aspect, society aspect as well, right? Social science. >> Exactly. I actually just did a recent conversational series with Northwestern Kellogg's business school, around the importance of developing trust and transparency, not only in the algorithms themselves, but the methodology of how you think about culture and value and ethics come into play through different lens, depending on the country you live in, as you kind of referenced, depending on your different values and religious backgrounds. It may because of different institutional and/or policy positions, depending on the nature, and so there has to be a general awareness of this that's thoughtful. Now, why I'm so excited about the work we're doing at IBM is we've actually launched a couple new initiatives. One is, what we call, AI OpenScale, which is really a platform and an opportunity to have the ability to begin to apply AI, see how AI operations and models function in production. We have methodologies in terms of engaging understanding fairness, so there's a 360 degree fairness kit, which is actually available in the open source world, there's a set of tools to understand and train people on recognizing bias, so even just definitions of, what do you mean by bias? It could be things like, group think, it could be, you're just self selecting on certain data sets to reinforce your hypotheses, it could be unconscious levels and it's not just traditionally socially oriented, types of bias. >> It could be data bias, too. It could be data bias, right? >> Totally. Machine generated biases in IOT world, also. >> So, contextual and behavioral biases kind of kick into play here. >> Yeah, but it starts with transparency trust. It also starts with thoughtful governance, it starts with understanding in your position on policy around data privacy, and those things are things that should be educational conversations across the entire industry. >> How far along are we on the progress bar there? I mean, it seems like it's early and we seem to be talking for awhile, but it seems even more early than most people think. Still a lot more work. Your thoughts on where the progress bar is on this whole mash up of tech and social issues around bias and data? Where are we? >> We're really at the early stages, and part of the reason we're at the early stages is I think people have, so far, really applied AI in very simple task oriented applications. The more, what we call, broad AI, meaning multi task work flow applications are starting, and we're also starting seeing in the enterprise. Now, in the enterprise world, you can still have bias, so, for example, when you talked about data bias, one of the simple examples I use is, think about loan approvals. If one of the criteria may be based on gender, you may have a sensitivity around the lack of women owned business leaders, and that could be a scoring algorithm that says, hey, maybe it's a higher risk when in fact, it's not necessarily a higher risk, it's just that the sampling is off, right. So, that would be a detection to say, hey maybe you have sensitivity around that data set, because you actually have an insufficient amount of data. So, part of data detection and understanding biases; where you have sampling of data that's incorrect, where your segmentation could be rethought, where it may just require an additional supervision or like decision making criteria as part of your governance process. >> This is actually a great area for young people to get involved, whether at their universities or curriculum, this kind of seems to be, whether it's political science and/or data science kind of coming together, you kind of have a mash. What's your advice to people watching that might be either in high school, college, or rethinking their career, because this seems to be hot area. >> It is a hot area. I would recommend it for every student at every age, quite frankly and we're at such an early stage that it's not too late to join and you're not too young nor are you too old to actually get in the industry, so that's point one. This is a great time for everyone to get involved. The second piece is, I would just start with online courses that are available, as well as participate in communities and companies like IBM, where we actually make available on a number of our web based applications, that you can actually do some online training and courses to understand the services that we have, to begin to understand the taxonomy and the language, so a very simple set, would be like, learn the language of AI first, and then, as you're learning coding, if you're more technically inclined, there's just a myriad of classes available. >> Final question, before I move on to the topic around inclusion and diversity, machine learning is impacting all verticals. I was just in an interview, talking with Don En-ju-bin-ski, she's got a company where it's neuroscience and machine learning coming together. Machine learning's being impacted all over. We mentioned basic data bias, and machine learning can help there. Machine learning meets blank every vertical, every market, is being impacted machine learning, which will trigger some of the things you're seeing on the app side. Your thoughts, looking at where you've come from in your career at IBM to now, just the evolution of what machine learning has enabled, your thoughts on the impact of machine learning. >> Oh, it's exciting and I'll give you a real simple example, so one of the great things my own team actually did was apply machine learning to, everyone loves the holiday shopping period, right? Between Thanksgiving to New Years, so we actually develop, what we call, Watson Order Optimizer and one of my favorite brands is REI, so the recreational equipment incorporated company, they actually applied our Watson Order Optimizer to optimize in real time. The best place, let's say you want to order a kayak or a T-shirt or a hiking boot, but the best way to create the algorithms to ship from different stores, and shipping from stores, for most retailers, is a high cost variable, because you don't know what the inventory positions are, you don't necessarily know the movement of traffic into that store, you may not even know what the price promotions are, so what was exciting about putting machine learning algorithms to this was, we could actually curate things like shipping and tax information, inventory positions of products in stores, pricing, a movement of goods as part of that calculation. So, this is like a set of business rules that are automatically developed, using Watson, in a way that would be almost impossible for any human to actually come up with all of the possible business roles, right? Because this is such a complex situation, and then you're trying to do it at the peak time, which is, like Black Friday, Cyber Monday Weekend, so we were able to actually apply Watson Machine Learning to create the business roles for when it should be shipped from a warehouse or a particular store. In order to meet the customer requirement, which is the fulfillment of that brand experienced, or the product experienced, so my view is, there are so many different places across the industry, that we could actually apply machine learning to, and my team is really excited about what we've been doing, especially in the next generation of supply chain. >> And it's also causing students to be really attracted to computer science, both men and women. My daughter, who is a senior at Berkeley, is interested in it, so you're starting to see the impact of machine learning is hitting all main stream, which is a good segue to my next question, we've been very passionate, I know it's one of your passions is inclusion and diversity or diversity and inclusion, there's always debates: D before I or I before D? Some say inclusion and diversity or diversity and inclusion. It's all the same thing, there's just a lot of effort going on to bring the tech industry up to par with the reality of the world, and so you have a study out. I've got a copy here. Talk about this study: Women in Leadership and the Priority Paradox. Talk about the study; what was behind it and what were some of the findings? >> Sure, and I'm excited that your daughter, that's a senior in college, is going to be another woman that's entering the workforce, and especially being in tech, so the priority paradox is that we actually looked at over 2,300 organizations, these are some of the top institutions around the world, that are curating and attracting the best talent and skills. Now, when you look at that population, we were surprised to find out that you would think by 2019-2018 that only 18% of those organizations actually had women in senior leadership positions, and what I categorize as senior leading positions, are in the see-swee, as vice presidents, maybe senior executives or senior managers; director level folks. So, that's one piece, which is, wow, given the size and the state where we are in the industry, only 18%: we could do better. Now, why do we believe that? The second piece is, you want the full population of the human capacity to think and creatively solve. Some of the world's biggest complex problems; you don't want a small population of the world trying to do this, so, the second piece of the paradox, which was the most surprising, is that 79% of these companies actually said that formalizing or prioritizing gender, fostering that kind of inclusive culture, was not a business priority, and that they had a harder time actually mapping that gap. Now, in the study, what we actually discovered though, was those companies, that did make it a priority, actually had first mover advantage, and making it a priority is quite simple. It's about understanding how to create that inclusive culture, to allow different perspectives and different experiences to be allowed in the co-creation and development. >> So, first mover advantage, in terms of what? >> Performance, actual business performance, so even though 80% of the organizations that we interviewed actually said that they've not made it a business priority, the 20% that did, we actually saw higher performance in their outcomes, in terms of business performance. >> So, this is actually a business benefit, too. I think your point is, the first mover advantage is saying, those companies that actually brought in the leadership to create that different perspective, had higher performance. >> Absolutely. >> We've talked about this before; one of the things I always say is that, tech is now mainstream, and it's 18% of the target audience of tech isn't the market, it's 50/50 or 51. Some say 51% women/men, so who's building the products for half the audience? So, again, this doesn't make any sense, so this is a good statistic. >> It is, and if you think about the students that are actually graduating out of graduate school, recently, there's actually more women graduating out of grad school than men. When you think about that population that's now entering the workforce, and what's actually happening through the pipeline, I think there's got to be thoughtful focus and programmatic improvements across the industry, around how to develop talent and make sure that different companies and organizations can move. Like you said, problem solve for creating new products that actually serve the world, not just serve certain populations, but also do it in a way that's thoughtful about, kind of, the makeup. >> And the mainstream and prep of tech obviously makes it more attractive, I mean, you're seeing a lot more women thinking about machines, like my daughter, the question is, how do they come in and not lose their footing, mentor-ship? So, what are the priorities that you see the industry needs to do? What are some of the imperatives to keep the pipeline and keep all the mentoring, obviously mentoring is hot, we see the networking built. >> Yeah, mentoring is huge. >> What's your thoughts on the best practices that you've been involved in? >> Some of the best practices we've actually done a number with an IBM, we've done a program called, Tech Re-Entry, so women that have decided to come back into the tech workforce, we actually have a 12 week internship program to do that. Another is a big initiative that we have around P-TECH, which is the next generation of workers aren't just going to have a formal college and or PHD masters type degrees. The next generation, which we're calling, is not necessarily a white collar, blue collar, what we're calling it is, new collar, meaning these are students that are able to combine their equivalent of a high school degree and early college education in one to be kind of, if you think about it, next generation of technical vocational schools, right? That quickly enter the workforce, are able to do jobs in terms of web development, in terms of cloud management, cloud services, it could be next generation of-- >> It's a huge skill gap opportunity, this is a big opportunity for people. >> It is, and we're seeing great adoption. We've seen it on a number of states across the US, this is an effort that we partner with, the states and the governors of each state, because public education has got to be done in a systematic way that you can actually sustain it for many, many years and this is something that we were excited about championing in the state of New York first. >> The ReEntry program and other things, I always tell myself, the technology is so new now you could level up a lot faster than, there's not that linear school kind of mentality, you don't need eight years to learn something. You could literally learn something pretty quickly these days because the gap between you and someone else is so short now, because it's all new skills. >> It's true, it's true. We talk about digital disruption through the lens of businesses, but there's a huge digital disruption through the lens of what you're talking about, which is our individual development and talent, and the ability to learn through so many different channels that's available now, and the focus around micro degrees, micro skills, micro certifications, there's so many ways for everyone to get involved, but I really do encourage everyone across every industry to have some knowledge and basis and understanding of tech, because tech will redefine how services and products are delivered across every category. >> And that's not male or female: that's just everyone. Again, back to technology for good, we can solve technology problems, You guys have been doing it at IBM, solve technology problems, but now the people problem is about getting people empowered, all gender, races, et cetera, the people getting the skills, getting employed, working for clouds, this is an opportunity. >> This is a huge opportunity. I think this is an exciting time. We feel like we're entering this next phase of, what I call, chapter two of cloud, this is chapter two of digital reinvention, of the enterprise, digital reinvention of the individual, actually, and it's an opportunity for every country, every population group to get involved, in so many new and creative ways, and we're at the early foundation stages in terms of both AI development, as well as new capabilities like Blockchain. So, it's an exciting time for everybody. >> Well, that's a whole nother topic. We'll have to bring you back, Inhi. Great to see you, in fact, welcome to Palo Alto. First time in our studio. Let's co-host something together, me and you. We'll do a series: John and Inhi. >> I would love that. That would be fun. I'm excited to be here. >> You can drop by our studio anytime now that you live in Palo Alto, we're neighbors. Inhi Cho Suh here, general manager IBM Watson, customer engagement, friend of theCUBE, here inside our studios, Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> From Sand Hill Road, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, presenting the People First Network: Insights from Entrepreneurs and Tech Leaders. >> Hello everyone, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. We are here for a special conversations part of Mayfield's 50th anniversary People First Network. This is a series of interviews from fault leaders around entrepreneurship, and insights. Manish Chandra, who's the CEO, Co-Founder and CEO of Poshmark, a very successful company. A serial entrepreneur that I've known for many, many years, going back to his early startups. Great to see you, thanks for spending the time today. >> Thanks for having me, John. And it's great, we were just talking about our early days when you were doing your podcast, and me, I was doing a social shopping company back then, was it, 2006? 2005 timeframe, a long time back. >> Pioneers have arrows on their back, as they always say in entrepreneurship, but if you look at the time when we were doing startups, over 14 years ago, social sharing, democratization; these were the buzzwords. This was the wave that we were all trying to ride. When 2008 hit, it kind of took the water down a little bit. But still the game didn't change, a rise comes Facebook, Twitter, social, multiple channels. The consumer's expectations changed a lot in that timeframe, and I want to get your thoughts because you've had two successful companies, Kaboodle and now PoshMark, with almost 40 million users, billion dollar valuation, hundreds and hundreds of employees, got like a hundred openings in your company. You're ramping up and you're scaling. But the expectations of users has changed. What are some of those dynamics in your business that you're seeing? >> I think the biggest sort of, uh, culmination or ignition point for social platforms came with the advent of mobile. And uh, early days of mobile were crude days, but you know, if you look back at the advent of Poshmark, sort of the idea of Poshmark reignited in my mind in 2010, and iPhone 4 had just come out. It was a couple of months after Instagram had started. And SnapChat had not even started yet. And what, I think, mobile platform did, especially with the high quality platform like iPhone 4 was, it made the process of content creation, consumption, and sharing so fast, and you finally had the device that could produce it, that uh, it just kept accelerating. And now, in the days of, you know, iPhone Excess Max and what have you, it's just so easy. At the same time, the speed expectation, the transparency expectation, and the velocity of expectation has gone up, and so what we've seen in Poshmark is, day one, our users were spending somewhere between 20-25 minutes in the app. And here today, we have billions of users, and they're still doing that same thing, so that level of deep immersion that you see is sort of unique to the mobile paradigm. >> I want to dig into the user expectation and the experiences that you're delivering. But before we start, take a minute to explain Poshmark; what you guys are doing as a core business, how it's evolved. >> So Poshmark, very simply, is a simple way to buy and sell fashion and other sort of style-based paradigm, we call it a social commerce platform because it really brings together users in a unique way. But it really allows anybody to build a business starting with their closet all the way to opening up a full-brand, wholesale engine on the platform. We provide all of the infrastructure, you know, shipping, payments, technology, and you have to bring in your inventory, so we don't touch inventory, but everything else we handle for you. >> So you're really helping people, enabling them to be successful with the ease of use; heavy lifting. >> Heavy lifting. >> It's kind of like Amazon. You don't need to provision anything, just kind of get started. E-Commerce in the era now of Google, Amazon, and Cloud technology, you see the rise of all the scale. How are you riding that trend, because that's a tailwind for you? And what is that doing for the user's expectations, I mean, I have four kids, I see them all online, they never use their laptops, except for homework, but they're on the mobile device, they're doing new things, this is the new expectation; what are some of those expectations? >> In our business, which is the business of fashion and style, what it means for people is, number one is, if they see something. Whether they see something on Instagram, or something on SnapChat, it needs to be instantly shoppable, right? And that obviously benefits a platform like us, which makes easy access to all of the different brands and things that are developing. At the same time, what social media's also doing is making the obsoleting of your products very fast, because once you've used it, you've, you know, posted a picture, you want to be able to not consume it again. >> You've been seen wearing the same outfit, I can't wear it twice! >> Exactly! And so we make that easy as well. And then the third thing is, uh, everyone is a content creator, everyone is a seller, everyone is sort of participating in this economy; people are hosting AirBnB guests in their home, people are selling on Poshmark, and the reason is because phone, and sort of this new mindset of collaboration and social makes it very easy for people to participate, so they want to be able to sell, but they don't want any hassle in that process. And so the new consumer expectation is instantaneous, deeply immersive, and constantly changing, and if you can't satisfy all of those things, then it becomes harder for you to scale. So you have to use technology, the physical world, and sort of the emotion all in the right mixture. >> One of the things I know that you're passionate about, and we've had this conversation, we feel the same way, certainly, at theCUBE is, role of community. And I see a lot of companies these days, whether they're saying we're doing an ICO using tokens to, um, getting a big bag of money from venture capitalists, oh yeah, our key strategy is to build a community. You can't buy a community. You've got to really win the hearts and minds and provide value, and you really can't, and build trust. Talk about the role of community for you guys, especially in the stylist world, where you have all this, where style's involved, a very robust community. How did you do it? How did you foster a community, and how did you nurture it? And how has that played out for you guys? >> So community is a foundation of Poshmark. And community's our value, not just our customer, but also what we are, and uh, community is what I'm more passionate about, even more passionate than fashion; and that was sort of, in my previous company, the thing that was really highlighted for me. And so we did it very slowly, actually. During the first year of our company, we only had a hundred users, but these hundred users were immersed. And then we went from a hundred to a thousand. Then thousand to five thousand. But very deliberately and slowly. So the end of the first 18 months of our company's life, we had maybe ten thousand users, right? And then we went from ten thousand to 300,000 in the next seven months, then we went from 300,000 to 12 million in the next two years. And today we went from 12 million to 40 million in the next few years, because, once you have sort of figured out how the community is created, it can scale very fast, but the early days if you compromise in how the community is being created, it's very powerful. For example, in the first, probably, eight or nine months in the company, I answered every single customer service email. And today, I probably interact with 80-100 customers directly everyday. Really keeping the pulse in sort of servicing. And service and love are sort of two of our core values, and it is very important that's built into the system. The second thing is, the community has to be authentic. You cannot fake a community. Which means, there is conversations that will happen in the community, there is, which may be antithetical to what you think is your brand, but if you don't let that authenticity happen, then what ends up happening is the community sort of withers away, because people are not going to tolerate anything inauthentic. The third thing, as you mentioned, is trust. And so from day one, we created not just trust in the way platform was built, but also in the economics. So day one we said, hey, if you're going to be part of this platform, there's two things that you're going to pay for; one, is, as a buyer, you're going to pay for shipping, and as a seller, you're going to revenue share with us, and we're not going to charge you any other money. Nothing. And so we shared, started from day one, a 20-80 partnership with our sellers, and today, here we are six or seven years later, and we have the exact same partnership. On the buyers, we started by charging them $7 for shipping, today our shipping is $6.49, at that time our shipping was 3 pounds to 5 pounds. Everything was priority, today everything is priority. So in six to seven years, if you think of any other marketplace in the world, not just in the country, how many times have they raised their fees? How many times have they changed their paradigm, changed their shipping paradigm? For us, it was very important. In the early days, it felt, people were saying, why are you charging so heavily? I said, I don't want to charge anything different tomorrow that I'm charging today, and by the way, there's no additional fees we've ever imposed on the platform, so, we don't have any marketing fees, any promotion fees, any credit card fees, and so that trust that's created ultimately leads to a lot of loyalty. And so today, you see our consumers growing, our users growing, and every single cohort we have continues to grow in revenue more like SAAS businesses, as opposed to e-commerce businesses. And that, to me, is the power of community if you do it right. >> And that's an interesting point. There's a lot of things you said in there, I think, that are worth doubling down on. One, I just want to highlight it, if you're creating value, and you're certainly scaling, passing that down in cost savings, and reducing cost and adding value, that's a secret formula. You see, we know one company that does that really well: Amazon! And that's worked. And they recognize the value of keeping people in there engaged, and so I think that's almost a take away for anyone watching is that if you're not adding value and reducing the costs while you're scaling, you're probably doing your math right. >> Absolutely. >> The second thing I want to talk about, and get your reaction to is you know about community and slowing it down at first. That's almost counter-intuitive. The, almost the answer is put the pedal to the metal, let's get some numbers; you took a different approach. You decided to take your time. Was that to get a feeling for the community, build the trust, understand the dynamics? Talk about why you went slow at first. >> The key is that the first two, three years, you're perfecting a lot of things, right? You have to make sure things are getting right. And in the first year, it was all about getting the product right, right? Then we scaled. Then we quickly realized that that scaling was breaking everything, was breaking our shipping system, was breaking our technology's office; I actually, Mayfield, which was an early investor in Poshmark, was on the board, and I went to my board, and I said you know, I'm actually going to slow down growth by 60%. And if you can imagine a venture board hearing that from their CEO, in the early days, it's challenging. >> It's a tough conversation. >> Yes. But I think one of the things that I value about Mayfield and my early investors is their focus on partnership, at a people level, a human level, with me. And uh, trust, and so we actually cut down our marketing budget by 80%, filled out the systems, got the partnership with USPS where we created the country's first fashion shipping label called Poshpost, and built up our technology and infrastructure, built out our payment partnership with BrainTree and Paypal, and by sort of, early-to-mid 2014, we started scaling and have never stopped. And in fact, I had told my investors early on, that first two or three years of building this business will be challenging, so hopefully you are prepared to go on this journey with me; but once we build it, it will accelerate. And what you see with us is, the business continues to accelerate every quarter, and we are seeing hyper growth, six, seven years into the business, which is even faster than the growth we saw in the first few years. And part of it is that, network business, which are built around true sort of networks, continue accelerating and connects later on in the process, but if you haven't created the right foundation in the early days? They fall apart. >> I think that's a lesson that entrepreneurs can learn, because you got to go slow to go fast. In Cloud based businesses where you have network effects, if there's a crack in the foundation, it can come crumbling down. >> It can come completely crumbling down, and it did, I mean, there were times in 2013 when people were literally doing things and just, the data would get lost in other things. We had to fix many of those, the broken pieces. We had USPS come to our offices and say hey, either you pay us a multi-million dollar fine or we have the right to arrest you. We had to renegotiate our contract with them. There's a bunch of things that happen in that scaling, and you hear things like blitz scaling and stuff these days, and their great terms, but at the same time, if you don't fix what's broken, you can't build that super scalable business. >> You got to be ready to blitz scale. As you know, Reid Hoffmann's famous channel, Masters of Scale, points out, which, by the way, is a great program, but, if you're not ready, you can crash and burn big time. That's a good point. You know, I have conversations a lot with a lot of senior people, one of them Theresa Carlson, who runs Amazon Web Services Public Sector Cloud business, she talks about doing the hard work upfront. And, you know, she's using public sector, so you have to get those kind of certifications, it sounds like this is a lot of things that you had to do. How did that test your entrepreneurial spirit? I know you, and you're hard-charging, but you're pragmatic and we can see that. But taking the time to do the work can sometimes test the patience of the team and the entrepreneur themselves. What's your reaction to that? >> Um, I would say that, you know, when we started Poshmark, the mission was that can we serve a hundred million people. In the country, you know, not even around the world. In our way we have 40 million people. From day one what we saw was deep engagement in the platform, because of the level of usage we had, because of the level of, sort of, activation we had, we knew we were on to something. I'll share a small episode with you, which convinced us that we've touched a deep nerve within the community is, in May of 2012, we were barely, you know, six, seven months into our app being launched in the public space, and we had maybe five or ten thousand users. At that time, we were adjusting our shipping for the first time, and uh, literally we announced the, we had launched the product with a small discount on the shipping, we were going to take it back, and we just said, you know, we're going to take it back. We got 200 plus emails which ranged from, you know, you're going to take away my entire set of clothing, and my entire business and we barely thought we were even launched, and so we knew we were servicing something very deep. That commitment to servicing the community where you are, really helping people at a deep level, allowed us to ride through these crazy ups and downs. And there was a point of time we went along the valley, even though we had the initial funding, in the mid stages of it we got over 200 rejections in the paradigm; sometimes multiple by the same investors. And so, it was definitely not a smooth ride in the middle of building this company. But that sort of passion for community and what they were experiencing kept us going. >> Let's talk about People First and venture capital. And one of the things I'm impressed on with this program we're doing with Mayfield is, and theCUBE has newer effect as well in the community, it's a people-centric culture. We lived through the social media early days when social and democratization was happening. More than ever now, you're seeing the role of people, because we're all connected. So there's rapid communications, there's frictionless, for people to yell and/or raise their hand and give accolades as well. So you have now a social dynamic with the fabric around the world. People can transact and communicate, complain, you know, applaud. This is changing everything. How is that change your outlook on life, because you have to recruit people, they want to work for a company that's people-centric, they want to work for a mission-driven company. These are the new dynamics we're starting to see in this generation; how has People First impacted your core mission? >> So for me, life is all about people. This company's all about people. We serve people, people is one of our core values. And my connection with Mayfield, which is through Navid, started back, actually, in my previous company. At the very beginning of that journey, '04/'05, uh, and we tried to partner up but the timing was never right, so when we were starting Poshmark, Navin was the first one with a term sheet, even before he'd sort of seen the business idea. And to me, that was a huge belief in me and the team I could put together. And I have the same sort of feelings about the people we bring on into the company, where uh, many of my team members here, including two of my co-founders, were involved with me in Kaboodle. One of them was a co-founder in Kaboodle. The first 20, 30, 40 people, I think, in the company, are still here seven or eight years later. They were people who are now playing very senior roles in the company, where they've gone through their ups and downs and we are always behind, two or three people left and we recruited them back into the company. So I think at the end, life, anywhere, but particularly in today's world, is so much about people and relationships. And it's the same thing we did to our community. I mean, uh, we just finished our sixth annual user conference, which was six times bigger than our first one. What was amazing was, they were so many people who were there in the first conference who had been coming to all the six conferences, and they are now like mini-celebrities in the community. And so, it's just amazing to see how a focus on people can be both rewarding at a business level, but also very gratifying at a personal level. >> It's nice to see you hit that tipping point. Congratulations on your success, it's great to see. You're a great entrepreneur. I want to ask you the question around funding, because I know, we've both been through venture capital fundings, we've been through this point building this great company you run now, and you've actually hit massive growth to a whole other level, your challenge today and going forward. This is, given it's Mayfield's 50th anniversary, you've seen a lot of changes in venture capital. A rounds used to be A rounds, now there's B and pre-C, there's all kinds of nuance, and now you have alternative funding now and global landscape you're seeing block chain and cryptocurrency, although ICO's have taken a bath because of the regulatory issue. Issues around regulation, some scams out there, actually. But venture capital's been tried and true. What's changed in venture capital the past 25 years in your view? >> I think, two things, which have happened, particularly in the last seven or eight years is there's a lot of it. And secondly, it favors the mighty more than the weak. And so, those are sort of the two big changes that have happened in the venture capital business. I think you were just mentioning is the people I used to work with, a whole range of investors, are now investing in post-growth stage funds. I mean, the same company. So everyone is sort of leveled up and leveled up and then leveled up, you know? You see venture capitalists raising two, three, four billion dollar funds; I mean, that's not venture capital, there's no way you can deploy that at the venture stage. A company is staying private much longer at different scales, which I think is probably more sort of a sign of the times. And finally, I think, it is the metrics and the scale that your business can achieve, that these are obviously very aware of, is an order of magnitude bigger than it has ever been. In fact, sort of, in some ways, unicorn, being the unicorn is uh, as sometimes as people joke, sometimes an insult. You need to be a deca-unicorn these days. So the feeling of not being enough is constant. >> And that's challenging, too, for the venture industry, because, you know, there's still the classic building blocks of entrepreneurship and venture architecture, which is, you start with an idea and you get a prototype, and certainly it's easy to get on the Cloud computing certainly, a great win for the entrepreneur; so I can see maybe some acceleration. But at the end of the day, it's still the classic blocking and tackling with building your company. >> Yes. >> Building a durable company. >> Absolutely. And you and I have both seen the '98, '99, 2000 timeframe, you know, everyone believes nothing repeats, and, you know, we certainly see, maybe not exactly the same thing, maybe it's an order of magnitude less, but there's definitely some level of exuberance we see today. But if you're building a fundamentally good business, that has robust economics, that can scale, and is based on foundational principles, with a large sort of market, I don't think that we are wrong in terms of deploying massive amounts of capital up against it. But at the same time, um, I think it also creates certain socioeconomic, as well as responsibility challenges, that I don't think we are fully facing up to, as an economy, and as a Valley. >> You've raised over a hundred million plus, so you have done some funding. A lot of funding, you have a lot of cash you've raised. When you had to go through those exercises of looking at the fundraising, 'cos, you don't want it to die on the mind, you're building a durable business, you have to go through multiple rounds of fundings. What were the key decision points for you as you started to look at this fundraising process to build your business? >> See, in the early days it was literally just about survival, I mean, there were times where I ran the business on negative balance sheets, right? So it isn't that it's been easy. I was only, I would say, the last funding round was the one that was easy, where we got multiple term sheets proactively, and the first couple of them. In between--. >> When things are scaling things are great, you know? >> In the middle of it, every single round was effectively zero to one term sheets. Every single time. We were lucky to have Mayfield as a partner, and some of our early investors like Inventus and Menlo who sort of supported us through each of these pieces of the journey. Mayfield as an anchor point. But it was really, really hard. And part of it is that, what we were doing was challenging, so many things still are, that even to process our cohort data is hard. Do you think of it as used, do you think of it as buying, do you think of it as selling, what is it? It looks like a bird, but it moves like a plane, you know? What is it? It's Superman or Superwoman, right? So that being a challenge, uh, only in the last round did we have the freedom, we could raise no money, some money, all of the money, and um, most of the focus for us, for that capital, was really to have the deep pockets that would be required for global expansion. We had actually scaled the business, at that point in time, that we didn't need too much money for domestic expansion. And in fact, not only have we not touched any money from that round, we have not touched any money from the previous round, so far; most of the money from the previous round. And so, again, part of it is you need muscle to compete in a bigger world, but at the same time, if you build a fundamentally sound business, then over time you can scale with or without money. >> And you got SAAS, sellers and service, and network effects booming and great community. That's a great tailwind for you guys, for sure. >> It is a phenomenal tailwind, and in fact, um, I was just in my management team meeting this morning, and I said, you know, we are growing, but we can grow even faster at this point, because the level of network effect we are seeing in the community is an extraordinary effect, where there's sort of second order; our community is opening up Instagram accounts to promote Poshmark to sort of go out to YouTube, so there's sort of this wild, organic movement that's happening across the country, which is just bringing out a whole different level of growth that we've ever seen. >> Yeah, there's a whole new dynamic it seems. It's interesting, I'm seeing, and not a lot of people writing stories about it are documenting it, but Masters of Scale has a whole different perspective, but no one's really talking about something that you guys are touching upon, and we're seeing it in our business. Creating an environment that has network effects, and community, and good content in this case, product for your end. Um, creates a flywheel. And what's interesting is, in this new era of people who can create value, with the ability to capture it, is really a unique formula, and I think this is the new kind of management discussion. Certainly lower prices, increased value, that's an Amazon effect. That's a, lacking the words, good example, well-documented, you do that, you're good, you're doing it, but now you have the ability for people to create value. Who can then capture it. This is almost a whole 'nother big wave. Your reaction? >> I think the power of people today is at a very unique level, right? And it can go in the negative direction, but when you harness it from a positive perspective, it's phenomenal. And to me, you know, we've started added a fifth core value recently, is that at the end, the true happiness comes from service of others, right? And if you service everyone, in our job, you're servicing our community, who's then servicing other people, and that creates an amazing sort of paradigm. And if you remove the conversation of money, because it's taken care of, it's built into the platform, then it just keeps sort of circulating. And I think that's something that people underestimate. And one of the things that you, you know, you see is that, for example, open source software, right? You start by focusing on community and then it becomes all about money, and then you forget about the community and you see many of the larger open source companies slow down, because they forget the fact that what brought them there was the community. And to me, I think--. >> If they get greedy, the project's fail. >> Exactly, exactly. And so, the hardest thing at scale to balance is how do you make sure that you're still focused on the community? >> Great stuff! Final question for you. You know, these days, with venture capital, the question always is, where's the value at? Talk about your experiences with Mayfield, and what differentiates a value add versus a value subtract investor? When should an entrepreneur feel it? What's the tell signs of someone's got a value add, and partner is not? >> I think, I think Mayfield is so aligned in so many ways with our core values, which is focus on people and focus on service, that it's just been an amazing partnership with them. You know, even in our lowest moments, I knew that we would get funded; I didn't know how it is, because I knew that Navid and Mayfield would figure out a way, so I never sort of worried about the capital after I brought in Navid and saw him in action for a year and a half. And if you're a venture capitalist, you need to provide capital! And forget about any of the services, many VCs fail that one task, which is to provide capital when you most need it, right? But beyond that, it's been a great resource. I mean, I met my co-founder through Mayfield. Tracy and I were first introduced via Mayfield. Many of our recruiting of the top executives have come from Mayfield, but they're always available as a sounding board across the pieces, so I do think that they take their service paradigm to a whole new level. >> And they support you, too, right? The support's there? >> Support and they have an HR partner who's helped, I think, with some of the recruiting issues, hiring the recruiting partnerships, et cetera. PR, other areas as we needed it. Somebody that you could call on, too, even if it was just talking about searching for a general counsel, and Mayfield has been great, even in that. Help, at this late stage of a company, so it's fantastic. >> It's a great network; people, value, paying it forward. Manish, thanks for coming on, sharing your insights, here as part of theCUBE's 50th People Network with Mayfield. Thanks for sharing your experience. >> Thanks for having me! It's been a pleasure and joy to see you after so many years as well! >> This is theCUBE here on Sand Hill Road at Mayfield for their 50th Anniversary as a Venture Capital Firm, sharing insights and ideas from entrepreneurs, and tech executives. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching! (electronic music)

>> Livefrom London, England, it's theCUBE, covering .Next Conference Europe 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to London, England. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Nutanix .Next 2018 Europe. My name's Stu Miniman. My cohost for these two days of coverage has been Joep Piscaer. And happy to welcome to the program, two first (mumbles). We're gonna talk about culture and people. To my right is Rukmini Sivaraman, who is the vice president of business operations and chief of staff to the CEO. And sitting next to her is Prabha Krishna, who is the senior vice president of people and places, both of them with Nutanix. Ladies, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for having us. >> All right so, we've been covering Nutanix for a long time. I've been to every one of the shows. I start out, I guess... Dheeraj talked for a long time about the three Hs. It was humble, hungry, and honest, if I got those right. And more recently, it was with heart. Actually sitting not too far behind us, there's a big booth for heart. So, the culture of the company is something that is tied with the founders. We've watched that growth. I've watched the company go from about 35 people to over 3500 people. So, having those core principles is something that we look at in companies. Why don't we start? If you could both just give quick introduction, what brought you to Nutanix, and what your role is there. >> Sure, I've been at Nutanix a little over 18 months and I started out as an engineer, then went to finance and investment banking of all things, was at Goldman for almost a decade. And Nutanix is a client of Goldman's back form the IPO, and I had heard great things about the company, of course, but wasn't intending to leave Goldman Sachs. But when I got introduced to Dheeraj, there was so much that was compelling about the company, the disruption, the category-defining, category-creating kind of position that the company had. And more importantly, I think, where we were going, which was just phenomenal. it was ambitious, it was bold. And I think for me, it's always been about the people. We spend a lot of time at work and it's really important to feel that connection to the people. And that was really important 'cause I had to pick up and move from New York City to the Bay Area to make this move. And we can talk more about this, but to me the people were, like I said, ambitious, but they were also grounded. And I see it and after being at Nutanix now, it's phenomenal how truly humble the people are and that's always struck me as a great combination. You want ambition and challenging problems to solve, but you also want humility and people that you can relate to. So that's really what got me to Nutanix. >> Please. >> Yeah so, I've actually been following Nutanix for quite a while. It's a company that addresses a space that's very underserved and has created a suite of products that's nothing short of amazing for our customers, entirely focused on our customer base. But for me, the most interesting thing was, it's a company that is as right-brained as it is left-brained. I've actually spent 19 years of my career in engineering and made a career switch into the people side. And it's one of the few companies where that fit is almost perfect. And once I met our founder and our CEO, Dheeraj, this became even more obvious. So. I'm actually very happy to be here. I've been here for about four months now, and it's already very clearly the beginning of a very, very exciting journey. >> Yeah, interesting, both of you kind of making those shifts. Talk a little bit about that, talk about... People from outside of Silicon Valley, always, it's like, "Oh, there's the one where they have the playground "and free meals and free drinks." And it's like, "Yeah, that's because you do the analysis "and if they'll work 18 hours a day, "if we can keep them there, "maybe even put a cot in the office, that's good." I haven't seen cots in the office when I go to Nutanix, but hey are really nice offices. And even on the east coast, we're tartin' to change and see some of those things there. Maybe give us a little bit of insight as to that culture. And Nutanix is much more than just Silicon Valley based now. >> That's right. So we are truly a global organization. And we decided very early on that we wanted to be a global organization, but we're also thinking local. All right, so we do have multiple offices within the US, in Durham and Seattle and other places, but we're also truly global. Our Bangalore office, in India we have a big presence. And so for us what that means is there's people from different perspectives and background. But ultimately, it's our sort of, like you said, the four values, but also our culture principles that we've qualified fairly recently that bind us. And that really help us move forward in the same direction and pointing that same direction, and growing the same way. So that has been a phenomenal to see and it's one that I think we've very deliberately qualified more recently. It's sort of the how, how do we behave that embodies those four values that you talked about. >> So Prabha, so you're a new hire, right? >> Yes. >> You haven't been with Nutanix as much. So while we're talking on the subject, what's your personal experience coming into Nutanix? Is it true what you're talking about? How does it work in real life, in practice? >> No, absolutely. All companies state a culture. All companies, I think, in this day and age at least and definitely in Silicon Valley, are very clear about having a specific culture. But the key, as far as I'm concerned, and the strength of a company is how they live and breathe their culture every single day, in every decision, and every action, right. In every difficult balance that they need to meet, that's where the culture really shows up. And at Nutanix, it is... How shall I put it? It's really the core of every single thing we do. It's the core of how we interact. It's the core of how we grow. It's the core of how we recruit, how we define our organizations. And frankly, I have to say, I have been in a lot of organizations and a lot of organizations over time, actually, and particularly as they reach our size... We're a bit at sort of an inflection point, if you will, in terms of size. Our growth has definitely been very, very quick and continues to accelerate. Having that culture being something that we really live is the most important thing. And it is what will allow us to continue to innovate and continue to succeed all over the globe as Rukmini just explained. For me, it's quite extraordinary to see it in action. >> Yeah, that's really interesting because, one, our industry has some challenges hiring. It's finding the right skillset there. If you match that with a culture, what challenge are there? What are you looking for? What is the fit from the outside to match what you're looking for? >> Yeah, I'm happy to address a little bit. So recruiting for us is everything. We want to bring in the best. We wanna bring in the brightest and we wanna bring in folks who really value our culture and our values, who really understand them. And again, are willing to live them every single day. So we do look for great talent all over the planet because great talent exists all over the planet. This is absolutely fundamental to our growth. We are an infrastructure company and we offer, actually, very interesting work for anyone who is interested in the engineering side, who is interested in the sales side, who's interested in market. And for me, the most interesting part in the roles we have, and frankly the most unusual piece if you will, is we offer opportunities to build things from scratch. So, the creative side, the creative mind is really what we encourage. And it shows up in every single aspect of the way we're structured. So, the diversity of thought, the diversity of background, the diversity of... Whether it's gender or location, philosophies, and all of that, is really what we want to bring in and what will allow us to continue to create these products that are quite unique. >> If I may add to that, we talk internally a lot about the founder's mentality. It's a concept, a framework that was developed by Bain & Company and the gist of it is as follows: When you think about great disruptive startups, they're on this rocket ship, accelerating growth. And then they get to a certain size, so they become a little bigger. And they get enjoy the benefits of scale, economies of scale, and that's a good thing. But the best companies take that and then they enjoy those benefits, but they then also don't lose what got them there in the first place, which is the innovation, the ability to disrupt and look around corners, and all of that. So we want the best of both worlds. And in this framework, it's called a scaled insurgent. So you're scaled, but you're still an insurgency. And that is important to us. Folks that can sort of balance the two, really make sure that we are benefiting from one, but also not losing sight of the other. And it's a paradox in many ways and we believe in embracing those paradoxes. And folks who can sort of balance those two would be really a great fit. >> And so, if you're growing that fast, I can imagine that keeping the balance between culture and engineering, and you're growing, that's difficult. How does Nutanix handle that paradox? >> I think it goes back to what Prabha was saying. And for us, culture and the way we behave is like oxygen. So it almost fuels the fire as opposed to the other way around or having to do two things at once. And that's how we've thought about it. And the principles, when we thought about them and conceived them, it was the same idea, which is how can this just be the way we conduct ourselves we treat our customers, we treat each other, we treat our partners? How can it just become the way we do business? And so far, that's worked well for us. >> So one of my favorite culture principles, actually, is comfortable being uncomfortable. And there's a real reason that because given our scale, given the way we wanna grow, and given the fact that we want to preserve that innovative seed at every step, for us, every single day is about balancing opposing forces. Do we invest in the short term? Do we invest in the long term? Do we manage locally? Do we manage more globally? Do we centralize things, do we not? Do we distribute, right? Every single day is about balancing those kinds of things and it's that balance that encourages the creativity in every single one of us. So, the very fact that we've sort of embodied that in a culture principle, really is a very strong indication of what we look for and what we wanna be. >> Right, with the time that we have left, I wondering if you could talk about both at the show and beyond the show, what things Nutanix is doing. Think tech for good, think about the charitable things. Some of speakers I've seen at these shows... Mick Ebeling is one that stood out from a previous show. On talking about tech for good, Dr. Jane Goodall, who I know spoke at a women's lunch event and in the keynote here today, is just so inspiring. As someone that loves science and animals, it was very powerful. You've got the .heart initiatives here. Maybe help for those that don't know here and what else you're doing around the globe and around the year. >> Did you wanna go first? >> Yeah, so giving back is very important for us. It's very fundamental. Gratitude, understanding where we all came from, where we are, and where we wanna go, and not losing ourselves, that's really the key of, I think, any type of success, frankly. So we have an organization around that. It's a very active organization, we all participate. And the company is very much involved in as many different types of charities as possible. It also feeds into the kinds of sourcing that we do when every bring people in. We look for folks who care. We care very much about our people. The amount of attention and the amount of just knowledge and thought that goes into structuring our organization is very much reflective of that sense of giving back and gratitude as well. Our employees are everything and the folks around us who are in need are also everything. It sort of goes together, if you will. So basically to us, it's a hugely, hugely important effort and we'll continue investing in those kinds of things as we go forward. >> I think one thing I would add is as you saw at the end of the closing keynote, I think we announced or shared that thanks to everyone here, really all the folks here, our customers, partners, all of our participants, we were able to collect over 10,000 pounds for .heart and that is phenomenal. We're forever grateful to our community to be able to do things like that. We also partner with organizations like Girls in Tech, which is doing great work on making sure that we are bringing all kinds of talent, as Prabha said, to the table. We believe there's great people everywhere. And so, how do we harness the power of all of those initiatives? >> All right, those are some great examples. And Prabha, to your point, I think that that individual touch to your employees, that also translates to the customer side. Something I hear from Nutanix customers is despite the fact how large you've grown and how many customers you have, they feel that they get that individual attention. So thank you so much for sharing all of the updates. Wish you both the best of luck in your continued journey. And we wanna thank our community, of course, for tuning in to our coverage. It is truly our pleasure to help document what's happening out in the industry, hopefully be a surrogate for you, to ask the questions that you wanna hear and help you along your journeys. My name's Stu Miniman. My first European cohost who also did a segment in Dutch, Joep Piscaer, Can you goodbye in Dutch for us, Joep? >> (Dutch). >> All right, I'll have to learn that one some time because, unfortunately, my english and speaking numbers in a couple of different languages is where I'm a little bit limited. But once again, thanks for watching. Turn to thecube.net to catch all of the replays from this show as well as all the shows that we will be at. Including, next year, Nutanix will be at Anaheim and the spring and Copenhagen in the fall. And our team look forward to bringing you coverage from both of those. So once again, thank you for watching theCUBE. >> Thank you. (slick electronic music) >> Hi, I'm John Wallis. I've been with theCUBE for a couple years serving as a host here on our broadcast, our flagship broadcast on SiliconANGLE TV. I like to think about the hows and the whys, and the whats of technology. How's it work? Why does it matter? What is it doing for end users? When I think about theCUBE does and what it means, to me, it's an ...

>> Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE. Covering Inforum DC 2018. Brought to you by Infor. >> Good afternoon and welcome back to Inforum 2018. Our coverage here on theCUBE as we start to wrap up our two days of coverage here at the show. We're in Washington, D.C. at the Walter Washington Convention Center, along with Dave Vellante, John Walls here. We're joined now by Mayumi Hiramatsu, who is the SVP of Cloud Operations Engineering and Security at Infor. Mayumi, how are you doing? >> Great to be here, thanks for coming. >> And a recent honoree by the way, Woman of the Year at the Women in IT Awards, so congratulations on that. (clapping) >> Awesome! >> Thank you. >> Very nice honor. >> Great. >> Tell us... big picture here, cloud strategy as far as Infor is concerned and why that separates you from the pack. What makes that stand out, you think, from your peers? >> I think there are a couple of things. One is that when I think of cloud, a lot of people will think about cloud as, it's a software running in the cloud, but it's more than that. It's about the solution and the capabilities that we're building on the cloud. And Infor is perfect, in that we're building enterprise software solutions. So if you look at Infor and compare us to the competition, we may have multiple of competition wrapped together in a solution. And that's really powerful, and you can only do that, really well, in the cloud because it's already built for that. It's integrated and the power of data is really amazing, because when you think about cloud, it's not just the software, it's the data, what you can do with it. And with the latest technologies around artificial intelligence and machine learning, there is so much insight we can give to our enterprise customers to make them successful in their business. So, I think of cloud as not only the technology, which I love, because I'm actually an engineer, but it's really the business transformation, digital transformation that the cloud enables, with the technologies like artificial intelligence, data analytics, data science, machine learning. There's just so much bolted on, that you can really only do in the cloud. >> Can you help us understand that competitive nuance? >> Yeah. >> I'm not sure I fully understand, 'cause others will say, well, we have cloud too. What's different between the way in which you provide solutions in the cloud and... pick a company. >> Yeah. >> Another company says, we have cloud, all of our SaaS is in the cloud. >> Right, so I think the first thing is, Infor's always focused on solutions, which means that our competition may have one of, let's say, a dozen things that we put together. So, if you're using our competition, they may have a cloud and some of them were born in the cloud, but then you have to figure out, how do I integrate it with the rest of the world? Because if you think about it, ERP. It's running your business. And it might be your HR and about your employees. It might be CRM and customer information. It could be supply chain and figuring out what parts I need to buy. It could be billing and figuring out how do I bill my customers. All these different solutions today, if you look at our competition, they may solve one, two, three different portions, but certainly not a dozen of these all together and then tailored towards the industry. So, we can pretty much bolt on and get started pretty quickly, if you think about, for example, healthcare. We already have a healthcare solution ready to go, so you don't have to figure out how do I put 12, 15 different software, glue it together and make it work? And maybe some of it is running in the cloud, maybe some of it is not running in the cloud, then the integration and making it work gets really complex. But ours is already pre-built, ready for that, whether it's healthcare, manufacturing, food & beverage, fashion. We have a lot of these already ready to go, so then you just have to customize it, as opposed to starting from scratch, figuring out how to integrate all these different software, making sure they work together and then harnessing the data, and then adding all these different, artificial intelligence and machine learning capabilities that is so powerful today. You can't do that without the cloud and you certainly can't do it if you're trying to glue together different solutions. It's just really not easy. And I'll add one more thing, I was talking to a customer about this today, which I thought was brilliant. The other thing is security. Most people worry about security in the cloud and I run our security as well, the Chief Information Security Officer reports in to me and the whole security team does. And I can tell you, if you're combining 12, 15 different types of software and trying to have consistent security all across? Oh, that's a very difficult thing to do. But we've already figured it out. So all you have to do is buy the package, the solution, it' already working together. You already have security overlay on it. They have consistency in terms of how we manage the security, whether it's single sign-on and who has access, and making sure that that gets all the way through, all the way up to the data lake, where all of the data gets captured, all the way up to the artificial intelligence. So, if you think about security and how important that is, and how difficult it might be to do on one software, let alone a dozen software, the fact that we've already built that, is a big differentiator. >> So it's all there, and when you talked about, all you have to do is customize it, you're talking about, you're not talking about hardcore coding, you're talking about things like naming and setting it up. Is that right? >> Yeah, and-- >> Or are you talking about deeper levels of custom mods? >> In our multi-tenant cloud, we don't do mods, but instead, we have extensions. And extensibility is really important because now those are, again, essentially plug-and-play. We already built it for you, so it's so much easier than creating each piece of code every single time. Again, it's about, how do you make sure that you can integrate these very important sets of business processes together. Not only how quickly can you use it, how secure is it? And ensuring that you can actually focus on your business value, right, because trying to assemble all of this together and making it work, it's an enormous amount of work and I think, as an enterprise, you want to focus on actually giving customer value instead of trying to figure out, the mechanics underneath the hood. >> I mean, you certainly get the value of cloud software, right, and cloud ERP. Who doesn't? Like out of the industries that you're trying to, get in front of or whose attention you're trying to get. Where's the, if there's someone that's kicking and screaming a little bit, who might that be or what might that be? >> I don't think that there's a specific industry, if you will, I think some industries, in fact, and when I think about it, all industries are getting disrupted, right? If they don't, they're actually getting left behind. So, I think some industries feel it more, as in, they might be behind the curve. And I wouldn't necessarily say industry, maybe some of the companies in that industry. >> Companies within? >> Yeah, are waking up to it. I went to a Gartner Supply Chain Conference a couple years ago and they were talking about bimodal supply chain, right. You have the teams that are doing the old way and then companies that are doing the new way. And companies are literally going through this shift. And I had this interesting conversation that it's really not bimodal. Companies are essentially somewhere in that spectrum and what they need to do is figure out from point A to point B and how you make that transition. It's a huge transition. I would also say that there's a cultural element as well, and so one of the key things that, especially for companies that are moving from on-prem to cloud. As a provider, it's really important to realize it's a completely different business model. And it's not always talked about, again, a lot of times people think, oh well, you know, Infor, you just moved the software into AWS and you're calling it SaaS. It's more than that. Besides the capabilities, its a huge cultural shift that even Charles talked about on-stage, which is that, software companies you focus on the product, versus, as a SaaS, the last 'S', Software as a Service, you are focusing on the service. So, the analogy I use a lot is, maybe we were actually a food company, we'd build beautiful food, delicious food, nutritious food, maybe it was a rotisserie chicken, right? But now I switch to a restaurant. Food is only table stakes. And you know, restaurant reviews is about services, the ambiance, how quickly you respond, how clean it is, all these other elements matter. And if you think about Infor or any other company for that matter, that we're focused on product and software, to then becoming a SaaS service provider, it's a huge transformation for a company, and I can tell you we're going through that, right? Infor as an on-prem company moving to the SaaS, and there's so much focus now on customer experience, is because realizing that we're no longer a software company, we're a Software as a Service company. And there's a lot more we need to put in, in terms of making sure the customer experience is good. As our customers go through the same journey, they also need to realize, it's no longer about providing that product, but the experience that they're providing to the customers, and we see our customers actually going through that journey. Some might be harder to move within whatever industry, because maybe they have legacy product, legacy machines, right, to be able to lift and ship to quickly. But there's definitely a path, and if you think about some of these industries that's been around for a long time, they're definitely going through this transition, and in fact, I think they have to. >> So how did you set priorities in terms of, you come to that recognition that we're services, in the cloud. Luckily, you don't have to manage data centers, so you could take that off the table, so what were your priorities and where did you start, and what are you focused on now? >> One of the first things that I did was really pushing this cultural shift for the company, because a lot of people, some people may think, okay, it's software, I'm putting in the AWS, it's cloud. But all the other service elements, like that restaurant analogy, it wasn't mature in terms of where we needed to be and therefore you hear a lot about customer experience and customer success and a lot of these elements that we really have to put more emphasis on. But the other areas that I focused, so I came in, I focused on cloud operations, security, tooling, and architecture, that was the set that I was focused on. What I did was essentially transformation, right, it's People Process Technology in addition to culture, so culture we already talked about, the sense of urgency is very different as well. On-prem, maybe you don't have to respond in two seconds, but in cloud, you do, and so making sure that we had crisp KPIs, which are different than on-prem, making sure that processes were completely redefined. I've actually done benchmark with our competition to see that our SLAs and KPIs are either on par or better. I'm a big proponent of engineering and technology, so we built a lot of technology monitoring, tooling, so that we can do a lot more in terms of self-service and automation, that's really the only to scale, and execute consistently. Spent a lot of time over the last year, literally re-defining the identity of our jobs to how do we make sure we have the right skillset, and retraining some of the folks who may have a new identity and they need to learn new skills, to coming up with new tools and technologies that they can use, to changing our processes so we can up our SLA and make sure that we're either meeting or beating our customers' SLAs, complete transformation in the last year. >> You must be exhausted. (laughs) >> When do you sleep? >> I don't sleep much, but... >> You must not. >> So, new metrics, this is intriguing to me. Can you give us an example of sort of this, new KPIs as a result of this cloud, SaaS world? >> Yeah, for sure. I think every company has their own sort of core KPIs that are public, and cloud is usually uptime, right? If you have support, it could be how quickly you respond, we call it mean time to respond. Underneath the hood, I've created key KPIs for, what I call, critical cloud qualities. One is, of course, reliability, so that would be in addition to uptime, like 99.7%, which is two hours and 11 minutes by the way, per month downtime, so making sure that we're actually meeting that. >> Sorry, just to interrupt. >> Yeah. >> You're measuring from the application view right, not the green light on the server, is that fair? >> That's a great question, because that is exactly the evolution we want as well, so when I talk about the transformation at my organization, we were measuring the hardware first. We are now measuring, essentially, outages. So I don't care if the server's still running, but if the customers can't log in, it's an outage, right? But that's not something you can monitor by looking at a server because sometimes the server's up and running. But maybe a process went down. >> System's fine. >> Exactly. So that's the monitoring-- >> Okay, so slight adjustment in the typical metrics, sorry to interrupt, but please carry on. >> That was a perfect question. >> Okay. >> So KPIs, so underneath the hood, so here are some examples of metrics for availability. Mean time to detect, that's an internal metric, and my internal metric is five minutes, meaning, if you don't know we have an issue in five minutes, it's probably not automated and monitored, so we better hook up some additional monitoring as an example. Mean time to respond, that's a very public one, a lot of times, customers demand that, and if you look at competition, that is the only metric that's actually public, potentially even on a contract, right? So we have mean time to respond, we also have mean time to resolution, that's usually an internal metric. I'm sure competition has that as well, but making sure that we have that response right away, because it's one thing to respond, but if it's not resolved as quickly, it's not good. Other metrics when it comes to reliability, mean time to communicate. And this is really interesting. One of the things that I found was, we could be working on something but we're not telling the customers, so they're wondering if we're actually sleeping on the job, even though we're actually actively working in the background, right? >> Did they get the message, right? >> Right, so mean time to communicate, as an example of reliability metrics. So reliability is one of the core tenets. The other tenets? Performance, how quickly do you respond, right? And I always say that if performance is too long, it's equivalent of being down. Imagine if you're using Google and you put a search in, and it takes you three minutes to get a response time, you probably have left by then. So that performance, page load time, page response time, these response times actually matter. So we have actually metrics around that and we monitor and manage them. Security, we have a boatload of security KPIs, whether it's number of critical vulnerabilities, how quickly we respond to security incidents, a boatload of those as well, and then, last but not least, agility. So how quickly we can respond if we have to do a deployment. So what that means is, let's say, every software company has a bug, and let's say we actually had to quickly respond to that, can we do it within 24 hours if we needed to? Security is a perfect example. A mature company should be able to say, okay, there was a security alert that got to the industry, right? We should be able to quickly respond to that and apply a patch immediately and address it. A company that may not be so mature, it might take them months to go through thousands of machines. So I call that time to market, how quickly can we actually deploy something, and that's not just deploying it, but testing it and making sure it's not going to break anything and be able to test it and verify it. So these are examples of metrics-- >> Great examples. Are your SLAs... for a SaaS company, your SLAs presumably have to be more strict than you'll contractually agree to, but maybe not, then your typical SLA out of AWS or Google, or Microsoft Azure. Is that true? >> Yes. >> So you guys will commit contractually to these types of SLAs that you would expect in an enterprise, versus kind of the standard, off-the-shelf AWS SLA, and how do you reconcile the gap or do you have a different agreement with AWS? >> We do have a... The SLA is pretty much standard when it comes to AWS specifically, right? >> 'Cause they want-- >> Yeah. >> Homogeneity. >> Exactly. So I think the challenge is, every SaaS provider needs to architect around it and when you think about it, hardware failure rate is usually 4% industry-wide. You can expect the hardware will go down, right? >> Yep. >> Network goes down, various things go down. So then it's our job that sits on top of it, to make sure that we build it for reliability. Perhaps we actually have redundancy built-in, and we can actually go from one side to the other, we have that, for example. So if AWS goes down, and they do, all right? I ran data centers for many, many years, it happens. It's our job to make sure that we can fail over it, and not have that customer experience, so it's an overlay availability that we have to build-- >> You're architecting recovery into the system, I know we're tight on time, but I got to ask you, 'cause Pam couldn't make it today. You're part of the WIN, the Women Infor Network, I presume, right? >> Yes. >> So maybe we can just talk a little about that-- >> Yeah. >> It's a great topic. >> Women in technology, right? >> I got some of the best interviews at Infor shows with women, Deborah Norville came on, Naomi Tutu, Lara Logan. Just some awesome folks, but so-- >> So your thoughts, we know you're passionate about the role of women in technology, so how you feel about that, if you want, and Infor, what's being done, or what can be done about that? >> Great questions. So I'm a big proponent of women in technology. Partly because I went through my pain, right, I've always been a small percentage in terms of engineering role as female in technology. I'm also a board member of Girls in Tech, and I channel my energy that way as well as I try to mentor and help others, for example, mentoring engineering students at Berkeley. I'm a Berkeley alum. And I think it's really important that we get more women in technology and keep in them in technology, and candidly, our latest trend is actually going down. So the reason why I think it's important, besides making sure that everybody has a chance, and all those good reasons, we have statistics that actually show, the more diversity you have, the better your product is going to be, and the better it's actually going to hit your top line revenue. And over and over again, whether it's women in the board seat, or women executives, or women engineers, no matter where, by getting women's input into technology, you're actually representing 50% of the consumer base. >> The user base, right. >> Right and so, if we don't do that as a company, we're actually not going to be able to get the user base feedback and I think it's so really important, not only for the economy to have those wonderful workforce in the job, but also for the company products to actually reflect the user's needs and actually improve the revenue, right? So from that perspective, I think it's really important, I love the fact that at Infor, we do a couple of things when it comes to diversity. So one, is WIN, as you know, Women Infor Network. I think it's a fabulous program, and in fact, I get a lot of male colleagues saying they want to join WIN, and they do. My last session, there were actually women and men joining it, because it's really about leadership and how do we cultivate our next, next talented workforce to be successful. The other one is EAP, the Infor Education Alliance Program, so that not only looks at women, but just diversity, right, and bringing students into this workforce. I think it's a great way to help the economy, help the products, help the company. And at the end of the day, why not? >> You're awesome, super impressive and articulate, and really self-confident, and hopefully an inspiration for young women out there watching, so thank you so much, really appreciate it. >> And hope you get some sleep sometime too. (laughing) >> Thank you. >> Busy, busy schedule. All right, thank you. Thank you Mayumi. We're back with more here on theCUBE, you are watching us live in Washington, D.C., and we'll be right back. (upbeat music)

want people to find their passion and purpose in life and achieve that because if you do what you love you know a lot of us do what we love some of us don't but if you do what you love you can be way more productive and happier right and then the end of day isn't that our goal okay bitchy it's okay to be cranky it's okay for anchor anger to fuel you it's okay to be aggressive and even if your male counterparts tell you otherwise or say wow that's unseemly I think it's just okay we don't have to be pure and perfect in order to be successful a plenty of mine she's the founder of Austen women magazine and she has this catchphrase that's fabulous because the female role models if you can't see it you can't be right so if I'm a 24 year old young lady just graduating I don't see anyone else who looks like I think it is really important that you know there's all those cliches around the fact that you know you've got to go through the windows sometimes or you know opportunities are masked and they really are and so just saying yes to everything and really being open to trying new things and learning new experiences will give you opportunity didn't even realize and now I've been in it long enough where someone I met a couple years ago who was just at a conference kind of dabbling took a course from girls in tech and is now in the career field and they're kind of introducing girls detecting other so it's amazing is what it it's no longer grassroots this is actually making

(upbeat music) >> From San Francisco, it's The Cube, covering Girls in Tech Catalyst Conference. Brought to you by Girls in Tech. >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here, with The Cube. We're at Downtown San Francisco, Girls in Tech Catalyst. Great event. We've been coming for a couple of years. About 700 professionals, mainly women, a few men, and I think they brought in a busload of kids to get inspired, talking about their stories, and really, it's a series. It's a one-track conference, two days, about 20 minute talks and really good stuff. Really great content. Check it out online if you didn't register this year. Make sure you come next year, and we're excited to have our next guest, Cube alum, really from one of the hottest companies in tech right now, she's Wendy Pfeifer, the CIO of Nutanix. Wendy, great to see you again. >> Hey, nice to see you, Jeff. >> Absolutely, so we see you at Nutanix Next all the time, but we haven't seen you at Girls in Tech. >> Yeah. >> So how long have you been involved in Girls in Tech? >> So, I've been involved since the very first meet up, more than 10 years ago. Girls in Tech was very inspiring to me, and I was here at the Catalyst Conference last year, and I'm a member of the board of Girls in Tech as well, so I'm able to give back and provide some leadership at that level. >> So we just had Adriana on, and she was going through-- >> Yeah. >> Some of the numbers, I mean, the growth of this organization, second to Nutanix, is off the chart. >> Yeah. >> I mean, really amazing. >> It really is amazing, you know. In some ways our time has come. Adriana's had this big vision for a really long time. Really focused on educating women, helping them to understand the potential of careers in tech, and technology knowledge, and that's a global message, and a message that resonates at every age level, and in lots of different sectors of society, so it's juts a privilege to be able to partner with her and others on the board, to enable the vision, and Nutanix as well, you know, is donating, is present here at these conferences, and partnering at Catalyst and Amplify, and other parts of the organization. >> Right, because it's not only the right thing to do, it's also good business, which has been proven time and time again. >> Absolutely, and you know, it's kind of taken on this passion, mission, just excitement thing, but it is practical as well and you know, all the studies, I'm sure so many folks have talked with you about this. There's so many studies, there's so much research that says diversity brings better decision-making, better product development. >> Right. >> And better satisfaction in our work environments as well. >> Right. The other thing that struck me talking to Adriana, and I guess I just didn't know, kind of the breadth of types of activities that Girls in Tech's put on. So we've been to Catalyst before. We've been to-- the Pitch Night, Amplify-- >> Amplify, yeah. >> But I didn't know, she's running, you know, there's all kinds of different-- types of things. >> Absolutely. I think the underlying passion is for education. If you think about, particularly people in underserved communities, there is a real opportunity, you know coding, and learning to code, learning to interact with computers; that's a language that transcends geographic boundaries, ethnic boundaries, age, and religious boundaries, and it's something that, you know ever since my days at Yahoo, I really felt like technology could bring the world together, and today in particular, there is so much disparity between women and men and their access to technology education and technology careers. >> Right. >> That this is, you know, more than just creating a level playing field. I think we're making our own playing field. We're not going to their playing field, anymore. We're creating our own at locations like this. >> Right, and clearly a bunch of founders are here today, who've-- >> Yeah. >> Started their own companies. But the other thing I think is interesting, is culture keeps coming up time and time again in all these conversations, and Adriana's built a culture starting, always from the top down, with the board. It's a phenomenal board of professional women-- >> Yes. >> That she's pulled together of this organization. >> Yeah, there are a couple of males on the board, too. I want to make sure I point out. >> Yep. >> Because we're a diverse board as well, but she has. She has brought together people who are leaders in the technology space, but also folks who are passionate about building a healthy nonprofit organization; one that's global, one that can scale, and so we also look at the fundamentals, and the business fundamentals as well, so we are expanding from 60 to 100 countries, and from 100,000 members to 200,000 members, I mean, who would think, right? >> Right, right, right. >> It's extraordinary. Even then, though, those 200,000 women are a drop in the bucket, compared to the 50% of the global population-- >> Right. >> Who are female. >> Right. And then you work at Nutanix. Super hot-- >> Yeah. >> I don't want to say startup anymore. You guys have IPO'd. >> Right, right. >> But, you know, but you're livin' it in terms of trying to get enough, good, qualified talent-- >> Yes. >> Just to feed the one engine that I Nutanix, so it's a real-- >> Yeah. >> Demand in the market place. >> Definitely, that's the case, you know, we sort of struggle with the thought, you know, are there just not enough women candidates in these fields, but what we learn at conferences like this is, that there are enough women candidates, but we don't necessarily recognize those women, and we don't know where to find them, and they may not find the sort of work that we represent to be attractive. And so we're sort of trying to change how we speak and think. Culture is a good word, but it's a revolution. It's a cultural revolution in terms of identifying talent where it sits. We spoke a lot in the last day and a half around blended careers, the bringing together of art and technology, or communication and technology, and the fact is that technology just underscores everything we do-- >> Right. >> Nowadays. >> Right. >> And so, you know, having people who can blend those things, is a real advantage, and women have this ability to take a multi-faceted approach to the work that we do and the way that we live our lives. We multi-task as a sport. >> Right, right. It's interesting, too, as the machines get better and as A.I. gets better, machine learning, the softer skills applied with the context become so much more important than necessarily just the super hard-core coding skills. >> You know, I have a story around that. So, we've just deployed, my IT department has deployed a machine-learning tool at Nutanix, to replace a lot of the interactions that happen on our help desk, and we found we just couldn't scale as the company was scaling, so we've been training A.I. from a company called Moveworks, and you know, we've been training it uniquely with our voice, and I think a little bit with my voice, and I just had one of our employees write back to me and say, "Not only is this thing", we call it Xbot, "Not only is Xbot solving my problems, but", he said, "she is pretty sassy, too." And I'm like, yay, he knows it's a she! >> Right, right. >> Right, and she's sassy too, so yeah, that unique voice-- >> Right. >> Is infusing even the machine-learning training that we're doing-- >> Right. >> And I think that makes for a more delightful experience-- >> Right. >> For all of us. >> It's funny, the voice thing, 'cause you know, Google had their very famous, the restaurant reservation call-in demo-- >> Yes! >> They got capped on a little bit-- >> Right. >> For, you know, was it real or not, but what made it so, so dramatic was the human-like elements in the conversation of the machine-- with ums, and ahs-- >> Absolutely. >> And uhs, and pauses, which we laugh about, 'cause we can shoot Cube interviews, everybody wants to cut those parts out, and we're like no, that's what makes people, people. >> Right, exactly, I agree with you. And at the same time, you know, there are, you know, things that are uniquely female stereotypes. We're more wordy. We have more things to say. >> Right. >> You know, we're more multi-dimensional. We can hold two thoughts at the same time, and so that's part of the richness of communication and our interaction too, but to the extent to which we can embed that in our technologies and our interactions, those are the extent to which they'll be more delightful-- >> Right. >> It's no coincidence that Siri and Cortana and all of those A.I.s sort of have this female persona, and I don't know if you know this, the, you know, Cortana, who's the Microsoft, you know, A.I., you know, she's voiced by the same character that's Cortana in one of their video games-- >> Oh, really? >> And she's sort of this like, badass fighter gal, too, so check it out. >> Well, we know what happened to Bob, right? >> Right. >> I know, poor Bob. >> Which, ironically, was Melinda Gates's project. Which, I don't know if you knew-- that story. >> I did not know that. >> So yeah, Melinda Gates's introduction to Bill was as product manager for Bob, which, if you don't know that story, check it out. It's old history. >> Oh, that's-- fantastic! >> But it's very good. Alright, before I let you go, one last thing. >> Yes. >> So you spoke, and they've got these great posters all around the room with little highlights from people's-- >> Yes. >> Conversations and yours was, I described it off the wall, "It's okay to be bad." >> Yes. >> I'd love, for the people that missed it, what's the message there? It's an important message. >> Yeah. >> Especially for women. >> Yeah, I think as women, you know, we don't have a lot of role models and when I get up as a role model, I'm one of the few CIO's who's female and Silicon Valley. You know, we give these speeches, and they sort of make us like Mother Teresa, you know. First you hae your mission in mind, and you lean in, and you do all these awesome things. But the fact is, it is actually okay, to be yourself. It's okay to be bitchy. It's okay to be cranky. It's okay for anger to fuel you. It's okay to be aggressive, and even if your male counterparts tell you otherwise, or say, "Wow, that's "unseemly.", I think it's just okay. We don't have to be pure and perfect in order to be successful. I can be those things all at the same time. And I also say, it's also okay to be good, to be merciful, to be soft-spoken, to be wordy, to be studious; that combination of things. We're allowed to be our genuine selves, and we don't have to be perfect to be successful and I feel like I embody that-- in particular. >> Yes, you certainly do. You certainly do! >> What, I'm not perfect? >> Yes, I mean the Nutanix story is a phenomenal story. >> It is. We are fortunate, we've been there since the beginning-- >> Absolutely. >> Watching it grow, and so no-- >> Helping us to frame the story, so thanks to The Cube. I appreciate that. >> Well, and you're super successful, and the company's successful so the fact that are Wendy, you know, you are who you are. You're a big personality, and it comes through, and it's great, and it works, and you're successful, so, if they need someone to look up to, you're certainly a fantastic role model. >> Thank you so much. Well I appreciate that. It's funny, 'cause I have never tried to be a role model, and now, just by accident, I've survived long enough. Here I am. (both laughing) >> Well that's a whole different conversation-- >> Right, right. >> You just look around like, I am the oldest guy in the room. But that's a different thing. >> I know. You're actually the only guy, just sayin'. >> Alright, well Wendy thanks for takin' a few minutes, and I guess we'll see you next at Nutanix next, if not sooner. >> I look forward to it, thanks. >> Alright, thanks. She's Wendy, I'm Jeff, you're watching The Cube from women, or Girls in Tech Catalyst 2018. (upbeat music)