>> Narrator: Live from Anaheim, California, it's theCUBE, covering Nutanix .NEXT 2019, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix .NEXT here in Anaheim, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, John Ferrier. We have two guests for this segment. We have PJ Farmer, she is the Director, Cloud Product Management at TierPoint. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, I'm very excited. >> Rebecca: And we have David Hines, VP, Architecture and Engineering at TierPoint. Thanks, David. >> Yes, thank you. >> So, for our viewers that maybe unfamiliar with TierPoint, can you tell us all about this St. Louis based company, what you do, give us an introduction. >> Oh, absolutely. So, TierPoint is a managed services, data services, and colocation provider. We have a broad footprint. We have over 40 data centers in the United States, and we have a broad portfolio of services we offer because we're really interested in meeting customers where they are in their digital transfortation, or transformation, excuse me. So everything from colo to cloud and beyond, we offer because customers come to us for a consultative approach. They have a problem, they needed solutions, and we can offer them those solutions, right. So we manage all of that. >> So you're helping them with their digital transformations and everything. >> Absolutely. >> And where does Nutanix come into play here? >> So, Nutanix is a part of that cloud services really that we're offering our customers, but also giving them a dedicated environment really that they can manage their workloads, but also have some more control, security, compliance, so that overall, the customers end up with a solution that helps them drive their business forward. And of course, TierPoint, our goal is to make sure that we're taking care of all that underlying infrastructure and systems and components, so again, the customer can focus on driving their business forward, and taking that burden off of IT and Nutanix is a great platform that really helps enable us and enable our customers, at the end of the day. >> Talk about the technical challenges you guys had before Nutanix, after Nutanix. What changed, what was the journey like, how did the door open up for them? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So, I think overall, we as technologists, work very hard to piece together solutions, varied solutions, to provide a platform for our customers that they can consume, but that is challenging, right, as a company, technology changes quickly. There are a lot of different vendors in the marketplace offering a lot of different technologies, and I think one of the things that we see as a huge value for Nutanix, is they've got a very complete platform, across the spectrum. It's not just a box with compute and storage. It is so much more than that, and so for us, that's very exciting, it's very intriguing, and something that really helps us be efficient, and also our customers, be efficient. >> So, digital transformation is something that we're talking about so much, on theCUBE in general, here at this show. What are you hearing from customers and what is sort of their bugaboos and their pain points? >> So, we recently had a customer who, their hypervisor of choice is something they're super familiar with, right. They have a great amount of comfort, but over time they can see, there could be some cost savings in Nutanix, with going with the Acropolis hypervisor that's included. So our customer came to us and said, hey, can you help us with this? Said, absolutely. So they are in our data center, we're taking care of them, we are consulting through their transformation and they are starting out with what they're comfortable with and as time changes and as they mature and transition, we're gonna help them get there, right. We're gonna help them change, if it's a hypervisor, if it's a different service, if it's a different way to set it up and present it out to their innovative IT developers, right. We're gonna help them do that. >> Talk about, can you guys share your insight into how you're operating the business? I mean obviously, you've got customers, a lot of customers. What's it like, operating this? 'Cause you got developers out there who want applications to be supported. I'm sure you got latency challenges around. We went to the cloud, a lot of multi-cloud conversations. People still gotta store stuff in their data centers or colos. So the edge, the network change, all these things are evolving. What's going on inside your company, in terms of how you operate? >> So, that's a great question. So, it is challenging to keep up with that landscape as it evolves but we are investing heavily in that. So the great thing about TierPoint, is we are in these edge markets. That is one of our real value adds, and so we're investing very heavily in our network. We also have some really strong partnerships with carriers that give us that on-ramp into the hyperscale. So it really helps complete that multi-cloud story that customers need. So yeah, they can come to us, colocate that equipment that they really have to hold on to, mainframes, mid-range servers, other legacy systems, while gaining that connectivity to those hyperscale environments. And then there's the middle, the middle where we provide a layer, like Nutanix, that gives them that enterprise type cloud. But again, it's dedicated to them, it's in our data center, it's local to their other systems, while also getting that reach to the hyperscale. So it's a really, really powerful story for us. >> On the hypervisor challenge question, this is interesting, we hear people saying, I got Hyper-Vi, I got Hyper-V, I got VMware, I wanna just use, Nutanix' got their own hypervisor. AVH has been an interesting product for Nutanix. The full stack is compelling for a lot of customers, but you guys probably have a lot of customers who wanna parole their own, or bring their own hypervisor. How do you deal with that, does that fit in to the value proposition? >> Well, I think there is some talk about the hypervisor, maybe being irrelevant, like it's obsolete, it's not something to be concerned about, and I think Dave said it earlier, best today, he said that-- >> John: You could be nice when you say that, by the way. >> I'm sorry, what? >> John: A lot of people are saying that. >> Well, yeah, a lot of people are saying that. I just think it's less of a focus, right, because TierPoint helps people focus on what is innovative, what is your business outcome, what are you really doing for your business? So I feel like the hypervisor is just less of a focus, right, than it is necessarily, not important. >> It's more commodity now. >> Yeah. >> It is, and we don't want the customers to have to focus on that, because again, IT really needs to drive business, not be a drag on business and so the less that they have to focus, as an IT organization, on the maintenance and management of infrastructure, and even up the stack towards operating systems, where we can take that burden off of them, then again, they can be a leader for their business and driving the business as a whole, not be held back. >> Okay, what's the playbook for doing that, not being a drag on the business? Because that's what everyone wants to do but they might have legacy stuff. What's the playbook? >> The playbook, is being a part of that business discussion and when the business itself is making decisions about how to drive forward, IT has that seat at the table, and again, is thinking about, how can we drive savings or cost cutting, how can we enable transactions, how can we enable the customer base? And not thinking about, oh, do I have my storage system updated, am I dealing with the old boxes that I have to replace, and do I have power and cooling problems in a data center. They don't need to be dealing with that. They need to be up front with the business, making business decisions. >> What you're talking about, really represents a complete shift in the role of the technologist. Do they have the skills to be thinking about, they obviously, can think about more than just the maintenance, and do I have the storage, and things like that. But does there need to be much more education around these business strategy questions that they should be thinking about? As you said, this is their role, to really help the business transform. >> David: Yeah. >> So, I think that often times I see people feel like they are just technology, oh, I'm just hands on keyboard, I'm doing this, but what their exposure and their natural interests, lead them to have a broad picture of how things can work, what is expected, and how do these things operate, what have I had experience with, and when they have a seat at the table and they're making, with the business decisions, they have value to add there. Right. That value is in that perspective, what they've seen, because that may not be forefront for some of the other business leaders at the table, right? And it is a collaborative discussion, that generates quality output, that generates innovation, that generates thinking outside of the box, and unique solutions that really lead the market. >> But I do think it really does, to your point, mean new education, new skills for these IT technologists and so that's part of, we've gone through this at TierPoint, transforming the engineers and the technologists that we have working on our staff and really teaching them new ways to work, new ways to think, new ways to collaborate, so that they're helping us move the business forward and not sitting behind a keyboard, isolated from the business itself. >> I was gonna ask you about the skill gap 'cause one of the things that comes up as the shift at DevOps is happening, with more development going on to make the infrastructure programmable so it's not a drag on the business, changing roles are a huge thing 'cause Nutanix essentially, the values, they enable new things to happen, the result is consolidation, so it's not consolidation as the primary. You get consolidation as a benefit of what they do. So people be like, whoa, what do I do now? But the benefit is people shift. So the IT Ops role has changed, it's best probably to get it before the operations. Where do you guys see that trend evolving? Because if this continues with AI and automation, you can almost imagine it's completely programmable infrastructure. >> Yeah, we do see a consolidation of Siloed Technologists, right, so this idea of I'm only a network engineer, I'm only a storage engineer, I'm only a cloud engineer, that is definitely going away and again, we've done this at TierPoint. We've kind of mixed those roles, right, educate the staff, but from additional education programmability, somebody'd be able to do the automation and the development in an engineering role verses having a separate development team working on that. It's gonna be really important as companies evolve their groups. >> I think you've had a lot of infrastructure engineers that 20 years ago, 15 years ago, knew Pearl, they knew scripting, they knew these things, and as time has gone on, now they know APIs, now they know RESTful APIs, now they're interacting, but we all know, in IT, it's always change and it's always learning, I mean, you got into this, right. So I think a lot of the infrastructure engineers, over time, are finding they were already automating things in some ways and they're becoming more mature in the ways that they automate things, right? I think it's a great transition as they go on, yeah. >> So, talk about the relationship with Nutanix. What's it like, partnering with them? They got a lot of momentum in enabling a partner strategy. We saw news with Hewlett Packard enterprise, potential channel opportunity there. They're a partner centric, they're partner friendly. What's it like, working with them? >> Fantastic, I mean absolutely fantastic, from go, see our customers were coming to us wanting to, they brought Nutanix to us, honestly, they came up. A lot of people that use Nutanix are like fans of Nutanix, right, you've seen some of those, and so our customers brought Nutanix to us, and as we began to see this trend, and we decided to make a private cloud product out of it, we engage with Nutanix. They've provided so many resources, they've been there for us, been very responsive. It's really been a natural and easy collaboration with them. And like you said, they do everything through partners so that has made it easy. We are another partner, right? They enable us, they know that part of their success is our success and vice versa, so it's almost like an extension of the team, which is fantastic. >> So what do you say to the new Nutanix customer that comes in, 'cause I agree with you, they're very hardcore loyal fans because they took a chance and they see benefits, so they took a chance and it paid off. It's like gambling, you put a number on the roulette wheel and it comes up black or red, whatever. They've had great success there and their promoter score is 90. But what about new people, are like, hey, I heard this Nutanix thing is out there, or software. How are you guys looking at these new opportunities, when is Nutanix a good fit? 'Cause you gotta balance it all for all your customers. >> Yeah. >> Depending on what they wanna do. >> Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. Honestly, for us it's really about enabling the higher order applications and workloads for our customers, so I don't know, unless the customer themselves is really bringing Nutanix to us, that we're having that conversation. It's really like, look, this is a solution that's gonna provide you the capabilities, and again, trying to not have the customer really worry too much about that and let us own that relationship, and as PJ mentioned, Nutanix has invested very heavily, not only in the partnership but also developing this platform and solution for us so it's been-- >> So you guys could provide it, if no one asks, just provide the best solution. >> Absolutely. >> Right. >> And that's the key, right? >> I want to ask you a question about geographics. So, I'm based in Boston, John's based in the Valley, you're a technology company based in St. Louis. I'm interested, we may just come to this with our east coast, west coast biases and I'm just, what's it like to be a technology company in St. Louis, in the heartland, do you feel part of the community? >> Oh absolutely, in fact, St. Louis really has been, you see several articles about all the startup tech in St. Louis because it is an affordable place to live. You have access to all the cities, usually direct flights, right, so from a community perspective, there's a lot more technology startups than you might think in St. Louis, but they do have access to-- >> Rebecca: And great barbecue too. >> Great barbecue, absolutely. And it really is a beautiful place. You also have lots of parks, lots of rivers, lots of outdoor, I mean, it's kinda surprising, honestly. We have a main technology center also, in Raleigh, North Carolina, so we are split between the two. >> David: Yeah. >> We do a lot of flights back and forth. >> WWT is out there too. >> RTP, yeah, the research truck will park in North Carolina, as a very big tech hub, so that split really provides a balance. There's a very big business hub in St. Louis and a lot of collaborational partnerships there from the business side, but also that Raleigh Tech Hub on the east coast is really a huge benefit to us. And a lot of our partners are there, >> PJ: And like a lot of-- >> Nutanix actually, is right there, down the street. >> We'll have to come down and visit you in North Carolina. My daughter's going to UNC >> Oh, okay. >> So I gotta find some excuses to get down there. >> That'd be great. >> Anytime. >> Maybe see your business. >> Some TierPoint shows. >> Oh, that's right. >> Exactly. >> And do a little, couple interviews. >> Anytime. >> Anytime. >> Well, thank you both so much for coming on theCUBE. It was great talking to you. >> Yeah, we really enjoyed it. >> Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for John Ferrier, you are watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live From Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Las Vegas for Dell EMC World 2017. This is The Cube, I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Paul Gillin. And our next guest Manuvir Das, Senior Vice President of Product Management, Dell EMC, former Microsoft Asure, historic role at Microsoft, been at the EMC for a few years. Welcome to The Cube, good to see you. >> Thank you, it's nice to be here. >> So the last year we had a conversation. We were talking about some of the technology and the kind of direction it was going, so first question is from last year to this year, what's changed and what's the news? >> We've brought together two pretty well-known platforms that we did, Isilon for Scalar file and ECS for Scalar object. It one team that are now around called the Unstructured Data Storage Team. And we've done this really big because from the point of view of the customer, what we see is this confluence between file and object really in the space of unstructured storage, and we think we have some ideas of how to put that together in just the right solution for the customer. So that's why we brought these teams together and we've got a lot of great stuff to talk about this year. >> How are you positioning file versus object right now? It seems like object is the rage, but file is still going to be around for a long time. How do you position that? >> Yes, I think it will be. I think basically, if I may, it's not just two, but we see three pillars of unstructured storage. The first is file, which is really more towards compatibility with traditional workloads. A lot of the application ecosystem is comfortable programming against NFS or SMB, and that ecosystem is going to remain for a long time. For instance, in the space-like video surveillance. So that's where we see file. It's optimized more for performance rather than Scale, although you do get Scale. The next level was really object, which is more for your modern workloads, for your web and mobile sort of workloads. Optimized more for Scale rather than performance. And then, the third pillar that we see that we'd be working on now is really realtime data, or what you call streaming data, from things like IOT, where you're getting a firehose of information coming out and you got to store it very, very quickly. So we see these are three different pillars of unstructured storage. And really, what we've been working on in our Unstructured Data Storage Team is how to bring all of these three together in the right solution for the customer. >> So tell us about the group that you're in because this is kind of a new, not new industry, we're talking about unstructured data for many years, going on eight years, but it's becoming super important now as you have this horizontal data fabric development. We talked a little bit about it last year, but you can see a clear line of sight now with apps using data very dynamically. So you need under-the-hood storage, but now you need addressability of data. And so, there's a challenge of getting the right data from the right database to the right place on the app in less than a hundred milliseconds. I mean, that's like the nirvana. >> So I think there's a couple of things happening. Firstly, the advances in hardware have changed the game a fair bit, because you can take a software stack that was not optimized for latency to begin with, you can put it on all Flash hardware and you can reduce the roundtrip a lot, that's one thing. The other thing I see is that especially with the advancement of object >> For the stage of life in IT, you have research background, PhD in Computer Science, I mean, it's a pretty awesome time to be in computer science right now. There's a ton of opportunity that applies from that. Machine learning, all this goodness there. What's your vision of how the next 30 years are going to play out? Because Michael Dell said, "Hey, it's been 33 years," since he's started the company, the next 33 are going to be amazing, and I believe that to be true as well given the science opportunities. How do you look at this, from a personal level and also from a Dell EMC? >> I think what's really going to change is, up 'til now, a lot of things that have been done with computing have started with the thought of, "How much data can I really have?" And then, once I've decided how much data I can really have, what am I going to do with it? And I think sort of the innovation that's happened in storage that I'm a part of, what has really changed is it said, "You don't have to stop and think "about how much data you're going to have." You can just keep all of it. And so, what that means is I don't have to figure out upfront what I'm going to do with this data. I'm just going to bring it all in, it's going to be really cheap, the systems are really scalable that can hold it, and everything is sort of tagged in such a way that after the fact, five years from now, I can go do something with this data that I hadn't envisioned when I brought it in. And I think that just opens up a range of things that were hard to imagine. The other thing I think is, >> Programmatically meaning, from a software standpoint. Discoverability, >> That's right, I think as you said, machine learning is a big part of it. Because I think machine learning unlocks opportunities to mind the data that people hadn't really thought of before. And it comes back to the same thing that when I bring data in, whether it's from sensors or aircraft engines or what have you, I have no idea what I'm going to do with the data, so I have no idea which part of the data is important and which part of the data is less important. But when I can apply things like machine learning after the fact, I don't actually have to worry about that. I just bring it all in, and the algorithms themselves will figure out which part of the data is the useful part of the data. >> Your ScaleUp product line and ScaleOut product line, how are you positioning those two application-wise to your customers? >> So I think there is distinction between tier one storage and tier two storage. I think when you think about tier one storage, it's not just about the numbers, like latency and IOPS, but it's about the whole experience of tier one storage. Do I have, for my disaster recovery, do I have RPO-0, which means I can recover to the exact point in time I was at when I failed over data center. How does my replication work, what data services that I have? So I think our ScaleUp technologies are very well oriented towards the tier one kind of capabilities. And then our ScaleOut technologies are very well oriented towards sort of the ubiquitous tier two storage, which is much more deployable at Scale. It's pretty good performance in two, actually, but not with that complete set of capabilities you think about with tier one in terms of RPO-0s, synchronist replication, those kinds of things. So I think there's a very natural sort of mace between the two. And really, I think from a storage vision, what we see is the tier two storage is so scalable and so cheap, that all of your bools of tier one storage on the top tier down automatically into the tier two storage. And what that means is for our customers, if you think about how much tier one storage they have to provision today, they should be able to provision less of that, because they should be able to tier more of that down to the tier two storage, which is now capable enough to hold the rest of the data. >> And be available. >> And be available, >> Okay so, customers want to do this, a no brainer. So when we hear Amazon talk about this all the time, Jeff Bezos was just talking about just the other day a new chassis, they've got the recognition software so you see facial recognition, a lot of great stuff happening all over the Cloud world with this kind of modeling, with the power of computes that's available. What are the customers do now? Because now they get it, it's a no brainer obviously. Now they've got to change how they did IT 30 years to be agile for tomorrow. What's the playbook? >> So what we're seeing is, the step one that we're seeing more and more today, and have seen really for the last couple of years with Isilon and with DCS, is what I would call Consolidation of the Tier Two. So where we had 12 different clustered silos of storage for the different use cases, let's buy into this model that I can just build one large storage cluster, and it can handle the 12 different use cases at the same time. And that's what we've been proving out for the last few years. I think customers have really, enterprise customers are really getting there. And now, what we're beginning to see this year is the next phase, whether it's the industrial internet with the automotives, et cetera, the more IOT style use cases. In fact, on Wednesday, we'll be talking about a new thing we've got called Project Nautilus, which is the third leg of our stool with the streaming storage that is built on top of Isilon and ECS. And we're now at the point where are first customers are beginning to work with that, where they're saying, "From my sensors, "in the automobiles, on the cameras, "I'm going to bring in this firehouse of data, "I'm going to store it all with you, "but later on, I'm going to do analytics on it. "As it's coming in, I'm going to do "some real-time analytics on it, "and then after the fact, I'm going to do "the more batch style." >> I know Paul Scott wants to jump in, but I want you to just back up because I missed the three pillars. >> The three pillars were file, for which we have Isilon, object for your modern applications and web workloads, for which we have ECS, and then streaming storage for IOT. >> Which is Nautilus? >> Which is Project Nautilus, >> Okay, got it. >> The way I put it to people is traditional storage systems, ScaleUp or ScaleOut, file or object, they need resilience. So when you write the data, you have to write and think at the same time, because you have to record all kinds of information about it, you have to take locks, et cetera. For IOT, you need a storage system that writes now, and thinks later, so that you can just suck it all in. >> It sounds like an operating system. You've got a storage that's turning into like LUNs, provisioning, hardware. It's essentially intelligence software that has to compile, runtime, assembly, all this stuff's going on. >> And there's all these fancy names like LAN Architecture and all that kind of stuff. And what that's all saying is, "I bring the data in "and as it's coming in, "there's some things I already want to do with it, "I do that analytics in real-time. "There's other things when I go tag it, "who was in the photo, where was it, "and then the rest of it, I'm going to do later." And who knows what and when, and that's a beautiful thing. >> You're way along the thinking curve on this obviously, but where are your customers? I mean, you're talking about a pretty radically, different approach to processing and storing data even in realtime. Machine learning, meta tagging, there's a lot for them to absorb. >> And I think that part, it's a vertical driven, use-case driven thing. So there's some industries where we see a lot of uptake on that. Automotive is a great example. >> Financial services, >> Financial services, fraud detection, those kinds of things. And there's other verticals where it's not time for that yet. Like I said, healthcare is a great example. So in those verticals, we see more of just the storage consolidation, let me build one pool of tier two storage, if you will, and consolidate my 12 use cases sort of what we refer to as the Data Lake in our words, but I think it's specific verticals. And that's fine, if you look at even the traditional unstructured storage, I think it really started with certain verticals like media and entertainment, life sciences, and that's sort of where it kicked up from. And I think for the streaming storage, it's these verticals that are more oriented towards IOT, your automotive, your fraud detection, those kinds of things where it's really kicking off, and then it'll sort of broaden from there. >> How is this playing into the Dell server strategy? >> It's really a fantastic thing, I don't want to say so much for us as for our customer, because I've talked to a number of people in these verticals where the customer wants a complete solution for IOT. And what that means is number one: on the edge, do I have the right equipment with the right horsepower and the right software on the edge to bring in all the data from the edge and do the part of the processing that needs to be done right there on the edge of realtime, and then it has to be backed by stuff in the backing environment that can process massive amounts of data. And with Dell, we have the opportunity for the first time that we didn't have with the EMC alone to do the complete solution on both ends of it, both the equipment on the edge as well as the backing IT, so I think it's a great opportunity. >> You bring up so many awesome conversations because it's boring storage, now storage is not boring anymore because it's fundamental to the heartbeat of a company. >> Exactly. >> So here's a question for you, kind of like thinking out loud and riffing with you. So some debate, like, "Listen, I want to find "the needle in the haystacks, "but the haystacks are getting bigger," so there's a problem with that. I got to do more design and more gig digging, if you will. And the second point is customers are saying, to at least to us on The Cube and privately is, "I got a data lake that's turning "into a data swamp, "so help me not have swamps of data, "and I want more needles, "but the stack's getting bigger." What's your advice to those CXOs? Could be a CDO, chief data officer, a CS CISCO, these are the fundamental questions. >> I would say this, whatever technology you're evaluating, whether it's an on-premise technology or a hosted technology from a vendor like us, or it's a service out there in the Public Cloud, if you will, ask yourself two questions. One is, "If I size out what I need right now, "and I multiply it by 10 or 100, "what is it going to cost? "And is it really going to work the same way, "is it going to scale the same way?" Look at the algorithmics inside the product, not the Power Point and say, "The way "they've designed this thing, "when I put 100 times the data "on 100 times the number of servers "on this storage system, "are things actually going to work the same way or not?" >> So it's a scale question, kind of what are the magnitude thinking you need to kind of go out and size it up a bit. >> Because I see right now, the landscape is full of new technologies for storage, and a lot of them sound great and look great on the PowerPoint, and you go do a POC with four nodes or eight nodes, and you put Flash in there and it works really well. But the thing is, when you have 200 nodes of that, when you've got a 30 petabyte cluster and you've got to fail it over because your data center went down, how does that go? >> Well, it's also who's going to run it, too. You want less obstacles, not more, and you don't them to be huge, expensive developers. >> TierPoint, that's the other thing. We really don't talk to our customers in terms of storage acquisition costs anymore, we talk in terms TCO, total cost of ownership. You look at power, you look at cooling. >> That killed the Duke, basically, it was so hard to run and total cost of of ownership. Michael Dell was just on, I was interviewing Michael and I asked him like, "Where's the Cloud strategy?" I was just busting his chops a little bit, 'cause I know he's messaging, trying to get him off his messaging. But he made an interesting comment and metaphor. He goes, "Well John, I remember the days "during the internet days, where's you internet strategy?" Look where that happened, the bubble popped. But ultimately, everything played out as according to plan. There's pet food online, now we've got food delivery, DoorDash, all this stuff's happening. So he kind of was using it to compare to the Cloud today. There's a lot of hope and promise, where's your Cloud strategy? But yet, his point was it's going to be everywhere. >> Yeah, and I would say this, I think people sometimes confuse Cloud with Public Cloud. And I think what happened is, having that issue myself, I would say that Public Cloud exposed a certain model that had some benefits for the customer base that were new. That is, I can use as a service, I don't worry about operationalizing things, I can pay as I go, so I get that, it's elastic. But it also came with a lot of drawbacks. I don't have the kind of control that I would like to have. A normal thing that any person who takes a dependency on infrastructure has is, "Today's my Superbowl Sunday. "Don't touch my environment today." Now you go to a Public Cloud and you use a service that is used by thousands of other customers, so which day is Superbowl Sunday? Every day is Superbowl Sunday for somebody. >> It was a metaphor, Public cloud was a metaphor for virtualization that would effect the entire environment. >> And so, I think the journey we're all in, all the vendors, the Public Cloud suppliers, everybody is, "What are the right set of models "that are going to cover the space for all our customers?" There's not going to be one. There's several. I think the dedicated private Cloud models are certainly very appealing in a number of ways if you do the economics right. And I think that's the journey we're all on sort of together. >> I tweeted a little bit of the jewels out there this morning. True, Private cloud is going to be a $265 billion dollar market, but they were the first ones to actually size that, let's say true private public means essentially hybrid, but on-prem with a data center. That's huge numbers, it's not like rounding errors. >> We believe that, too. And that's why one of the neatest things we've announced this year with ECS object storage is something called ECS Dedicated Cloud, which is basically saying, "You can take the object storage "from us, but it's going to run in our data centers." We operate it, it's actually the developers who wrote the code from my team who are actually operating it, and you can do a variety of hybrid things. You can keep some of it on-prem, some of it off-prem, you can keep all of it off-prem. But regardless, it's your stuff. You can hug it, it's dedicated to you. You're not sharing the cluster with anybody else. You get to decided when you update your version, when you take a maintenance window or what have you. So, we're all searching for that sweet spot, if you will. >> I want to ask you about something, some of the different containers. The hottest thing right now in infrastructure, lack of persistent storage has been a real problem for containers. Is that a problem that's yours to solve or is it Docker's to solve? >> No, I think it is ours to solve with them. So, I'll say a couple of things. Firstly, our modern products, ECS and object storage as well as ScaleIO, our block ScaleOut storage, these are built with containers. So for instance, if you take ECS today, every ECS appliance that we ship, if you look inside very server, it's running Linux with Docker. And all the ECS code is running on Docker containers. That's just how it works. So A: we believe in containers, and two: I think we have been doing the work to provide that persistence ecosystem for containers using our storage. So we have a great team at Dell EMC called EMC Code. And these are people, they do a lot of this integration stuff, they work very closely with Docker and a number of the other frameworks to really plug our storage in. And I think it's a very open ecosystem. There are APIs there now, so you can plug anybody's storage in. And I think that's really if you compare VM-based infrastructures with container-based infrastructures. That's really the gap, because when you operationalize the stuff, you need things like that. You need persistent storage, you need snapshots, you need a VR-storage, you need those kinds of things, but I think that'll all come. >> Well, we're looking to continuing the conversation, I know time's tight. We'd like to follow up with you after the show, maybe bring you into our studio via Skype. You're in a hot area, you got the storage, you got the software, you got some Cloud action going on. Thank you very much for coming on The Cube, appreciate it. >> My pleasure for being here, thank you for having me. >> This is TheCube, live coverage here at Dell EMC World 2017. And I'm John Furrier with Paul Gillin, we'll be right back. Stay with us. (bright tech tones)