>>live from San Diego, California It's the Q covering Koopa and Cloud Native Cot brought to you by Red Cloud. Native Computing Pounding and its ecosystem >>Welcome back. This is the cubes. Fourth year of coverage at Q. Khan Cloud, Native Con. We're here in San Diego. It's 2019. I'm stewed. Minutemen, my host for this afternoon is Justin Warren and happy to welcome to guests from the newly minted platinum member of the CNC F Net Up. Sitting to my right is that Baldwin, who is the director of Cloud Native and Communities Engineering and sitting to his right is Rob Bhaskar, who's the product product strategy for Kubernetes. And it's also a board member on the CME CF, thank you both for joining us. Thank you. All right, s O, you know, maybe start with you. You know, uh, you know, companies that No, I've got plenty of history with net up there. What I've been hearing from that up last few years is you know, the Corvette has always been software, and it is a multi cloud world. I've been hearing this message before. Kind of the cloud native Trinity's piece was going, Of course, there's been some acquisitions and met up continuing to go through its transformations if you will s o help us understand kind of net ops positioning in this ecosystem >>in communities. Yes. Okay, so what we're doing is we're building a product that large manage cloud native workloads on top of community. So we've solved the infrastructure problem. And that's kind of the old problem. We're bored to death. Talking about that problem, but we try to do is try to provide a single painting class to manage on premise. Workloads and off permits were close. So that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to say it's now more about the AP taxonomy in communities. And then what type of tooling do you build to manage that that application and communities and says what we're building right now? That's where we're headed with hybrid. >>There's a piece of it, though, that does draw from the historical strength of map, Of course. So we're building way have, essentially already in marketing capability that allows you to deploy communities an agnostic way, using pure, open unmodified kubernetes on all of the major public clouds, but also on trump. But over time and some of this is already evident. You'll see it married to the storage and data management capabilities that we draw from the historical NetApp and that we're starting to deploy into those public clouds >>with the idea that you should be able to take a project. So project being the name space, new space, having a certain application in it. So you have multiple deployments. I should be able to protect that name space or that project. I feel to move that and the data goes with it. So they were very data where that's what we're trying to do with our. Our software is, you know, make it very data. Where have that aligned with APS inside of communities, >>So maybe step back for a second. What? One of the one of things we've heard a few times at this show before and was talking about the keynote this morning is it is project over company when it comes to the C N C F Project Project over company. So it's about the ecosystem. The C in C F tries not to be opinionated, so it's okay for multiple projects to fitness face not moving up to a platinum a sponsor level. You know, participant here, Ned. It's got lots of history's in participating and driving standards, helping move where the industry's going. Where doesn't it up? See its position in, you know, the participating in the foundation and participating in this ecosystem? >>Yeah, So great question, actually. Love it. It's for my favorite topic. So I think the way we look at it is oftentimes, project to the extent they become ubiquitous, define a standard a de facto standard, so not necessarily ratified by some standards body. And so we're very interested in making sure that in a scenario where you would employ the standard from a technology integration perspective, our capabilities can can operate as an implementation behind the standard. So you get the distinguishing qualities of our capabilities. Our products in our service is Visa VI or in the context of the standard. We're not trying to take you down a walled garden path in a proprietary, uh, journey, if you will weigh, would rather actually compel you to work with us on the basis of the value, not necessarily operating off a proprietary set of interface. Kubernetes broadly perceive it as a defacto standard at this point, there's still some work to be done on running out the edges a lot of underway this week. It's definitely the case that there's a new appeal to making this more off herbal by pardon the expression mere mortals way. Think we can offer Cem, Cem, Cem help in that respect as well? >>Yeah, for us, its usability, right? I mean, that's the reason I started stacking. Cloud was that there was usability problem with kubernetes. I had a usability problem. That's what we're trying. That's how I'm looking at the landscape. And I look at kind of all the projects inside the C N c f. And I look at my role is our role is to How do we tie these together? How do we make these? So they're very, very usable to the users. How were engaging with the community is to try to like a line like this, basically pure upstream projects, and create a usability layer on top of that. But we're not gonna we don't want ever say we're gonna fork into these projects what we're gonna contribute back into these. >>That's one concern that I have heard from. Customers were speaking with some of them yesterday. One of the concerns I had was that when you add that manageability onto the base kubernetes layer, that often very spenders become rather opinionated about which way we think this is a good way to do that. And when you're trying to maintain that compatibility across the ecosystem. So some customers saying, Well, I actually don't want to have to be too closely welded to anyone. Vendor was part of the benefit of Kubernetes. I can move my workloads around. So how do you navigate What? What is the right level of opinion? Tohave and which part should actually just be part of a common sense >>should be along the lines of best practices is how we do it. So like, Let's take a number policy, for example, like applying a sane default network policy to every name space defying a saying default pod security policy. You know, building a cluster in the best practices fashion with security turned on hardening done where you would have done this already as a user. So we're not looking you in any way there, so that's we're not trying. I'm not trying to carry any type of opinion in the product we're trying to do is urbanize your experience across all of this ecosystem so that you don't ever have to think about time now building a cluster on top of Amazon. So I gotta worry about how do I manage this on Amazon? I don't want you to think about those providers anymore, right? And then on top of those on top of that infrastructure, I wanna have a way that you're thinking about managing the applications on those environments in the exact same way. So I'm scaling protecting an application on premise in the identical way I'm doing it in the cloud. >>So if it's the same everywhere, what's the value that you're providing? That means that I should choose your option than something else. >>So wait, do have This is where we have controllers and live inside of the clusters that manage this stuff for the user's so you could rebuild what we're doing, But you would have to roll it all by hands, but you could, you know, we don't stand in the way of your operations either. So, like if we go down, you don't go down that idea, but we do have controllers we have. We're using charities. And so, like our management technology, our controllers are just watching for workload to come into the environment. And then we show that in the interface. But you could just walk away as well if you wanted to. >>There's also a constellation of other service is that we're building around this experience, you know, they do draw again from some of the storage and management capabilities. So staple sets your traditional workloads that want to interact with or transact data against a block or a shared file system. We're providing capabilities for sophisticated qualities of persistence that can be can exist in all of those same public clouds. But moreover, over time, we're gonna be in on premises. Well, we're gonna be able to actually move migrate, place, cash her policy. Your put your persistent data with your workload as you move migrate scale burst would repatriate whatever the model is as you move across in between clouds. >>Okay, How how far down that pathway do you think we are? Because 11 criticism of proven it is is that a lot of the tooling that were used to from more traditional ways of operating this kind of infrastructure isn't really there yet. Hence into the question about we actually need to make this easy to use. How far down that pathway away? >>Why would argue that tooling that I've built has already solved some of those problems. So I think we're pretty far down. The people ride down the path. Now what we haven't done is open sourced. You know all my tools, right? To make it easier on everybody else. >>Get up, Scott. Strong partnerships across the cloud platforms. I had a chance to interview George at the Google Cloud event. New partner of the year. I believe some of the stuff help us understand how you know something about the team building. Interact with the public cloud. You look at anthems and azure Arkin. Of course, Amazon has many different ways. You can do your container and management piece there, you know, to talk a little bit of that relationship and how both with those partners and then across those partners, you know, work. >>Yeah, it's a wow. So how much time we have? So so there's certainly a lot of facets to to that, But drawing from the Google experience. We just announced the general availability of cloud volumes on top. So the ability to stand up and manage your own on top instance and Google's cloud. Likewise, we've announced the general availability of the cloud volume service, which gives you manage put fun as a service experience of shared file system on demand. Google, I believe, is either today or yesterday in London. I guess maybe I'll blame that on the time zone covers, not knowing what what day it was. But the point is that's now generally available. Some of those capabilities are going to be able to be connected to our ability from an ks to deploy, uh on demand kubernetes cluster and deploy applications from a market marketplace experience in a common way, not just with Google, but has your with Amazon. And so, you know, frankly, the story doesn't differ a little bit from one cloud to the next, but the the Endeavour is to provide common capabilities across all of them. It's also the case that we do have people that are very opinionated about I want to live only in the Google or that Microsoft of the Amazon, because we're trying to deliver a rich experience for those folks as well, even if you don't value the agnostic multi cloud expert. >>Yeah and Matt, You know, I'm sure you have a viewpoint on this, but you know, it's that skill set that that's really challenging. And I was at the Microsoft show and you've got people you know. It's not just about dot net, there's all that. They're they're embracing and opened all of these environment. But people tend to have the environment that you used to and for multi cloud to be a reality, it needs to be a little bit easier for me to go between them, but it's still we're still we're making progress. But there's work to do. Yeah, s so I just, you know, you know, I know you're building tools and everything, but what what more do we didn't need to do? What were some of the areas that you know you're hopeful for about a >>year before I need to go for the supreme? It's down. It's coming down to the data side like I need to be able to say that on when I turn on data service is inside of kubernetes. I need be able to have that work would go anywhere, right? And because it is a developer. So I have I'm running a production. I'm running an Amazon. But maybe I'm doing test locally on my bare metal environments. Right? I need I want to be able to maybe sink down some of my data. I'm working with a production down to my test environment. That stuff's missing. There's no one doing that right now, and that's where we're headed. That's the path that's where we're headed. >>Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up, actually, because one of the things that I feel like I heard a little bit last year, but it is violated more this year is we're talking a little bit more to the application to the application developer because, you know, communities is a piece of the infrastructure, But it's about the Colonel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the colonel there. So, you know, how do we make sure you know, we're standing between what the APP developer needs and still making sure that, you know, infrastructure is taken care of because storage and networking they're still hard. >>It is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm approaching. I'm thinking more along the lines of I'm trying to work about app developers personally than infrastructure This point on for me, you know, like so I have I give you a cluster in three minutes, right? So I don't really have to worry about that problem, you know, way also put Theo on top of the clusters. So it's like we're trying to create this whole narrative that you can manage that environment on day one day, two versions. But and that's for like, an I T manager, right? And society instead of our product. How I'm addressing this is you have personas and so you have this concept. You have an I T manager. They do these things that could set limits for the developer who's building the applications or the service's and pushing those up into the environment. They need to have a sense of freedom, right? And said on that side of the house, you know, I'm trying not to break them out of their tooling. So, like wait part of our product ties in to get s o. We have CD, you know? So you just get push, get commit to a branch and weaken target multiple clusters, Right? But no point to the developer, actually, drafty animal or anything. We make way basically create the container for you. Read the deployment, bring it online. And I feel like there's these lines and that I t guys need to be able to say I need to create the guard rails for the Debs. I don't want to make it seem like I'm creating guardrails for the deaths caused the deaths. Don't like that. That's how I'm balancing it. >>Okay, Because that has always been the tension and that there's a lot of talk about Dev ops, but you don't talkto application developers, and they don't wanna have anything to do with infrastructure. They just want a program to an A p I and get things done. They would like this infrastructure to be seamless. Yeah, >>and what we did, like also what I'm giving them is like service dashboards. Because as a developer, you know, because now you're in charge of your cue, eh? You're writing your tests you're pushing. If your c I is going to ct you on your service in production, right? And so we're delivering dashboards as well for service Is that the developers are running, so they dig in and say, Oh, here's an issue or here's where the issue is probably gonna be at I'm gonna go fix this. Yeah, and we're trying to create that type of like scenario for developer and for an I T manager, >>slightly different angle on it, by understanding that question correctly is part of the complexity of infrastructure is something we're also turned Friday deterministic sort of easy button capability, for perhaps you're familiar with them. That's nice. And a C I product, which we we kind of expand that as hybrid cloud infrastructure. If the intention is to make it a simple private cloud capability and indeed are not, a community service operates directly off of it. It's a big part of actually how we deliver Cloud Service is from it. The point is, is that if you're that application developer, if you want the effective and CASS on prom thing, Endeavor with are not a PhD. I product is to give you that sort of easy button extremes because you didn't really want to be a storage admin network at you didn't want to get into the be mired in the details of infra. So So you know, that's obviously work in progress. But we think we're definitely headed down the right direction >>for him. >>Yeah, it just seemed that a lot of enterprises wanna have the cloud like experience, but they want to be able to bring it home that we're seeing a lot more. Yeah. >>So this is like, this turn cheon from this turnkey cloud on premise and played with think has weaken like the same auto scaling. So take so take the dynamic nature of opportunities. Right. So I have a base cluster size of four worker notes, right? But my work, let's gonna maybe maybe need to have more notes. So my out of scale is gonna increase the size my cluster and decrease the size right Pretty much everybody only do that in the public cloud. I could do that in public and on premise now and so that's That's what we're trying to deliver. And that's nickel stuff. I think >>that there's a lot of advantages thio enterprises operating in that way because I have I people that here I can I can go and buy them, hire them and say way, need you to operate this gear and you, you've already done elsewhere. You can do it in cloud. You can do it on side. I could know run my operations the same across no matter where my applications leave, Which saves me a lot of money on training costs on development costs on generally makes for a much more smooth and seamless experience. So, Rob, if you could just love >>your takeaway on, you know, kind of net up participation here at the event and what you want people to take away off from the show this year. >>So it's certainly the case that we're doing a lot of great work. We, like people toe become aware of it. Not up, of course, is not. I think we talked about this and perhaps other context, not strictly a storage and data management company. Only way do draw from the strength of that as we're providing full stack capabilities in a way that are interconnected with public cloud things like are not a Cuban. Any service is really the foundational glue in many ways how we deliver the application run time, but over time will build a consolation of data centric capabilities around that as well. >>I would just love to get your viewpoint Is someone that you know built a company in this ecosystem. There's so many start ups here. Give us kind of that founder viewpoint of being in. They're so sort of ecosystem of the >>ecosystem. So this is how I came into the ecosystem at the beginning. I would have to say that it does feel different. Att This point, I'm gonna speak as Matt, not as now. And so my my thinking has always been It feels a lot like kind of your really your big fan of that rock bands, right? And you go to a local club way all get to know each other at that local club. There's, like maybe 500 of us or 1000 of us. And then that band gets signed a Warner Brothers and goes to the top it. Now there's 20,000 people or 12,000 people. That's how it feels to me right now, I think. But what I like about it is that just shows the power of the community is now at a point where is drawing in like cities now, not just a small collection of a tribe of people, right? And I think that's a very powerful thing with this community. And like all the where they called the kubernetes summits that they're doing way, didn't have any of those back when we first got going. I mean, it was tough to fill the room, you know, Now, now we can fill the room and it's amazing. And what I like seeing is is people moving past the problem with kubernetes itself and moving into, like, what other problems can I solve on top of kubernetes, you know? So you're starting to see that all these really exciting startups doing really need things, you know, and I really likes it like this vendor hall I really like, you know, because you get to see all the new guys. But there's a lot of stuff going on, and I'm excited to see where the community goes in the next five years. But it's we've gone from 0 to 60 insanely because you guys were at the original coupon. I think, Well, >>it's our fourth year doing the Cube at this show, but absolutely we've watched the early days, You know, I'm not supposed to mention open stack of this show, but we remember talking T o J j. And some of the early people there and wait interviewed Chris McCloskey back into Google days, right? So, yeah, we've been fortunate to be on here, really? Day zero here and definitely great energy. So much. Congrats. So much on the progress. Really appreciate the updates, Everything going. As you said, right, we've reached a certain estate and just adding more value on top of this whole >>environment. We're now like we're in, like, Junior high now. Right on were in grade school for a few years. >>All right, Matt. Rob, Thank you so much for the update. Hopefully not an awkward dance tonight for the junior people. For Justin Warren. I'm stupid and back with more coverage here from Q Khan Cloud native 2019. Diego, Thank you for watching Cute

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by the M Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, Welcome back, everyone to the Cubes Live coverage of the Emerald 2019. I'm John Career with Lycos Day, Volante Dave. 10 years covering the Q Weird Mosconi and 2010 boy Lots changed, but >> it's still the >> platform that Palmer Ritz laid out. But the stuff filling in 10 years later. >> Okay, you call that software mainframe and Robin came in so I can't call Mainframe Way >> Have leaders from PM Wears Largest business unit. The Cloud Platform Business Kid Colbert to CTO and Christmas R S v P and General Manager Guys, Thanks for coming on The key. Appreciate. >> Yeah, that's for having us. The >> world's your business units smoking hot. It's very popular, like you run around doing meetings. Cloud platform is the software model that's 10 years later actually happening at scale. Congratulations. What's the What's the big news? What's the big conversation for you guys? >> Yeah, the biggest news this week is the announcement of project specific, and, um, it's about taking the platform a Jess, um, hundreds of thousands of customers on it and bringing together communities were just now very popular with the developers and that black form together so that operators, on the one hand, can just deal with the platform they love. And the developers can deal with the kubernetes layer that they love. >> It's interesting to watch because, you know, the whole end user computing stack that was laid out 10 years ago is actually happening now, Assassin see, sass business models. We all see the and half of them is on the success of Cloud. But interesting to see kubernetes, which we've been following since the report started. Open stack days. You saw that emerging. Everyone kind of saw that. And it really became a nice layer. And the industry just create as a de facto. Yeah, you guys were actually driving that more forward. So congratulations on that. >> That's sitting it >> natively in V sphere is interesting because you guys spend a ton of time. This is a core product for you guys. So you're bringing something native into V sphere? I'm sure there's a lot of debates internally how to do that, kid. What's that? What is the relevance workers. You guys have a lot of efficiencies and be severe, but bring in kubernetes is gonna give you some new things. What, >> So the thinking is really you know, it's Christmas mentioning. How do we take this proven platform? Move it forward. Customers have moved millions of work clothes on top of the sphere, operate them in production, the Prussian great capabilities, and so they'd be able to be very successful in that. And so the question is, how do we help them move forward in the kubernetes? You know, you mentioned Crew readies is still fairly young, the ecosystem around. It's still somewhat immature, still growing right, and it's a very different environment than what folks are used to who used the sphere. So there's a big challenge that customers have around managing multiple environments. All the training that's different, all the tools that are different so we can actually take their investments. They've already made into V sphere leverage and extend those into the kubernetes world that's really powerful. We'll help our customers take all these millions of workloads and move them forward. It's >> interesting because we were always speculating about being where I started Jerry Chan when he was on yesterday. He's been of'em where since early days, you know, but looking at VM where when they went to their you guys went back to your core When we be cloud air kind of win its way and then you deal them is on since the stock price has been going great, So great chair older takeover value there. But you got clarity around what cloud was. And as you look at the operator target audience, you guys have the operators and the devil and ops is critical. So you guys have been operating a lot of work, Liz and I think this is fascinating. So the role of containers is super relevant because you got V EMS and containers. So again, the debate continues. >> Well, I think >> Tainer is wrong. Where Bond, It's interesting conversation because kubernetes is orchestrating all that >> while the snarky treat tweet Oh day and you guys feel free to come. It was Oh, I thought we started launch pivotal. So we didn't have to run containers on virtual machines. Yeah, we know that people run containers on bare metal. They run containers and virtual machines, but >> yeah, It's a debate that that we hear pop up on the on the snarky Twitter feeds and so forth. We'll talk to customers about it. You know, this whole VM versus container debate, I think, really misses the point because it's not really about that. What it's about is how do I actually operate? These were close in production, right? This kind of this three pillows we talk about build, run, manage. Custer's want to accelerate that They won't do that with enterprise, great capabilities with security. And so that's where it really gets challenging. And I think you know, we've built this amazing ecosystem around desire to achieve that. And so that's what we're taking forward here. And, yes, the fact that we're using fertilization of the covers, that's an implementation detail. Almost. What's more, valuables? All the stuff above that the manageability, the operational capabilities. That's a real problem. It seems to >> me, to the business impact because, okay, people going to go to the cloud, they're gonna build cloud native acts. But you've got all these incumbent companies trying not to get disrupted to trying to find new opportunities, playing offense and defense at the same time, they need tooling to be able to do that. They don't want to take their e r p ap and stick it in the cloud, right? They want to modernize it. And you know you're not gonna build that overnight in the cloud anyway, so they need help. >> That's the the key move that we made here. If you if you think about it, customers don't have kubernetes experts right today and most of them in their journey to the mortar naps. They're saying, Hey, we need to set up two stacks. At least we are if we immerse stack that we love. And now communities are developers laws. So we have to stand up and they don't have any in house experts to do that right? And with this one move, we have actually collapsed it back to one stack. >> Yeah, I think it's a brilliant move. Actually, it's brilliant because the Dev ops ethos has proven everyone wants to be there, all right. And the question is, who's leading? Who is lagging? So ops has traditionally lagged. If you look at it from the developer standpoint, you guys have not been lagging on the we certainly have tons of'em virtualization been standardized. Its unifying. Yeah, the two worlds together, and it really as we've been calling it cloud two point. Oh, because if you look at what hybrid really is, it's cloud two point. Oh, yeah. Cloud one data was Dev Ops Storage and compute Amazon. You're born in the cloud. We we have no I t department 50 people. Why would we ever and developers are the operators? Yeah, so we shall. Enterprise scale. It's not that easy. So I love to get your thoughts on how you guys would frame the cloud two point. Oh, Visa vi. If cloud one does storage and compute and Amazon like scale, what is cloud to point out to you? >> Yeah, well, I think so. Let's talk about the cloud journey. I think that's what you're getting at here. So here's how it discuss it with customers. You are where you are today. You have your existing apse. A lot of them are monolithic. You're slow to update. Um, you know, so forthright. And then you have some of the cloud NATO nirvana over here. We're like everything's re architected. It's Micro Service's got all these containers off, so >> it doesn't run my business >> well, yeah, well, that's what I want to get to. I think the challenge, the challenge is it's a huge amount of effort to get there, right, All the training we're talking about, all the tooling and the all the changes there, and people tend to look at. This is a very binary thing, right that you're there. Here where you are, you're in the club, New Nirvana. People don't often talk about what's in the middle and the fact that it's a spectrum. And I think what we used to get a V M, where is like, let's meet customers where they are, You know, I think one of the big realizations we had, it's not. Everyone needs to get every single application on this far side over here. Some halfs, your pieces, whatever you know, it's fine to get them a little bit of the way there, and so one of the things that we saw with the M A coordinated us, for example, was that people there was a pent up demand to move to the public cloud. But it was challenging because to go from a visa environment on Prem to an eight of US native environment to change a bunch of things that tooling changes like the environment a little bit different, but with a mark, our native us, there's no modifications at all. You just little evey motion it. And some people have you motioning things like insanely fast now, without modifying the half you can't get you know something you have to suddenly better scalable. But you get other cloud benefits. You get things like, Oh, my infrastructure is dynamic. I can add host dynamically only pay for what I need. Aiken consume this as a service. And so we help moving. We have to move there. There were clothes a little bit in the middle of the spectrum there, and I think what we're doing with Project Pacific and could realise is the same thing. They start taking advantage of these great kubernetes capabilities for their existing APs without modification. So again, kind of moving them further in that middle spectrum and then, you know, for the absolute really make a difference to their business. They can put in the effort to get all the way over there, >> and we saw that some of the evidence of some challenges of that shiny new trend within the dupe ecosystem. Big data objects to army. Who doesn't love that concept, right? Yeah, map produced. But what happened was is that the infrastructure costs on the personnel human capital cost was so massive that and then cloud cloud came along and >> just go out. There is also the other point about just just just a bespoke tooling that >> technology, right, Then the disruptions to create, you know to that, then the investments that it takes. Two >> you had a skill and you had a skills gap in terms of people have been. So that brings us back to So how do you address that problem? Because most of the audience out here, not developers. Yeah. Yeah. Total has the developers connection. So >> this is one of the really cool things about Pacific that what we've done with Pacific when you look at it from an I T. Operations, one of you that person sees v sphere the tool they already know and use understand it. Well, when a developer looks at it, they see kubernetes. And so this is two different viewpoints. Got like, you know, the blind men around the elephant. But, um but the thing is is actually a singular thing in the back end, right? You know, they have these two different views. And so the cool thing about us, we can actually bring items and developers together that they can use their own language tools process. But there's a common thing that they're talking about. They have common visibility into that, and that's super, super powerful. And when you look at, it also is happening on the kubernetes side is fully visible in the V's here side. So all these tools that already work against the sphere suddenly light up and support kubernetes automatically. So again, without any work, we suddenly get so much more benefit. >> And the category Buster's, they're going on to that. You're changing your taking software approach that your guys No, you're taking it to the software developer world. It's kind of changing the game. One of things. I want to get your thoughts on Cloud to point out because, you know, if computing storage was cloud one dato, we're seeing networking and security and data becoming critical ingredients that are problems statement areas people are working on. Certainly networking you guys are in that. So as cloud chip one is gonna take into the fact that messy middle between, you know, I'm on here and then I want the Nirvana, as always, the origination story and the outcomes and stories. Always great. But the missing messy middle. As you were pointing out, it's hard. How do you guys? >> And if you look at the moves that we made in the Do You know about the big fusion acquisition that remained right, which happened, like a month ago, and it was about preparing the platform, our foray I animal or clothes? So really, what we're trying to do is really make sure that the history of platform is ready for the modern applications, right? I am along one side communities applications, you know, service oriented applications. All of them can land on the same platform and more and more. Whether it's the I am l or other application, they're being written on top of communities that structures code. Yeah, nothing like Jenna's well, so enable incriminating will help us land all the modern applications on top of the same platform that our customers are used to. So it's a huge kind of a inflection point in the industry from my >> wealthy earlier point, every CEO I talked to said, I want to get from point A to point B and I wanna spend a billion dollars to get there. I don't wanna have to hire some systems integrator and outsource to get any there. Show me how I get without, you know, destroying my >> business. How did we meet the customers where they're at, right? Like what? The problem with this, the kind of either or model you're here you're there is that there's a huge opportunity costs. And again, Well, if you will just need a little bit of goodness, they don't need the full crazy nirvana Goodness right? And so we enable them to get that very easily in automated way, right? If you'd just been any time re factoring or thinking through this app that takes months or even a year or more, and so you know that this the speed that we can unleash her The velocity for these customers is >> the benefit of that. Nirvana is always taken out of context because people look at the outcome over over generations and saying, Well, I want to be there but it all starts with a very variable basis in shadow. I used to call it, but don't go in the cloud and do something really small, simple. And then why? This is much more official. I like this stack or this approach. That's ultimately how it gets there. So I got to get I got to get that point for infrastructures code because this is what you're enabling. Envies, fearful when I see I want to get your reaction. This because the world used to be. And I ask Elsa on this years ago, and he kind of validated it. But because he's old school, Intel infrastructure dictated to the applications what it could do based on what it could do. Now it's flipped upside down with cloud platform platform and implies enabling something enabling platform. Whatever you call the APs are dictating for the infrastructure. I need this. That's infrastructure is code. That's kind of what you're saying is that >> I mean, look kubernetes broader pattern time. It said, Hey, I can declare what I want, right, and then the system will take care of it and made in that state. I decided state execution is what it brought to the table, and the container based abs, um, have already been working that way. What this announcement does with Project Pacific is that the BM applications that our customers built in the past they are going to be able to take advantage of the same pattern, just the infrastructure escort declarative and decide state execution That that's going to happen even for the old workload, said our customer service >> and they still do viens. I mean, they're scaled 1000 the way >> they operate the same pattern. I >> mean, Paul Morris doesn't get enough credit for the comedy made in 2010. He called it the hardened top. Do you really care what's underneath if it's working effectively? >> Well, I mean, I think you know the reality today is that even though containers that get all get a lot of coverage and attention, most were close to being provisioned. New workloads even are being provisioning v EMS, right? If you look at AWS, the public clouds, I mean, is the E c to our ah go compute engine. Those service's those VM so once they're getting heavily used. And so the way we look at it, if we want to support everything. And it's just going to give customers a bunch of tools in their tool box. And let's put on used the right tool for the right job. Right? That's what the mentality >> that's really clouds. You know, Chris, I want to get your you know, I want to nail you down on the definition of two point. Uh, what is your version? Come on. We keep dodging around, get it out. Come on. >> I think we touched on all aspects of it. Which one is the interesting, less court allowing the consumer of the cloud to be able to dictate the environment in which the applications will operate and the consumer is defining it or the developers to defining it. In this case, that, to me, is the biggest shift that we have gone through in the Colorado. Yeah, and we're just making our platform come to life to support >> that. We're taking the cube serving. We'll put all together, and we want the community to define it, not us. What does it explain? The honest what it means to be a project and has a project Get into it. An offering? >> I mean, so Project Pacific is vey sphere, right? I mean, this is a massive, rethinking re architecture of Easter. Like pretty much every major subsystem component within Visa has been updated with this effort. Um, what we're doing here is what we've technically announced is actually what we call a technical preview. So saying, Hey, this is technology we're working on. We think it's really interesting We want to share with the public, get the public's feedback, you know, figure out a way on the right direction or not. We're not making any commitment, releasing it or any time frames yet. Um, but so part of that needed a name, right? And so because it is easier, but it's a specific thing. We're doing the feast here, so that's where the project comes from. I think it also gives that, you know, this thing has been a huge effort internally, right? There's a lot of work that's gone into it. So you know, it has some heft and deserves a name Min itself. >> It's Dev Ops to pointed. Your reds bring in. You making your infrastructure truly enable program out from amble for perhaps a tsunami. >> The one thing I would say is we wouldn't announce it as a project if it was not coming soon. I mean, we still are in the process. Getting feedback will turn it on or not. But it it's not something that is way out. Then it's It is going to come. >> It's a clear direction. It's a statement of putting investment into his code and going on to course correct. Get some feedback at exactly. But it's pretty obvious you can go a lot of pain. Oh, yeah, isn't easy button for combat. He's >> easy on the >> future. I think it's a great move. Congratulations. We're big fans of kubernetes. So the guys last night having a little meeting Marriott thinking up the next battle plans for game plan for you guys. So, yeah, I >> thought this is just the tip of the iceberg. We had a lot of really, really cool stuff we're doing. >> We're gonna be following the cloud platform. Your progress? Certainly. Recovering. Cloud two point. Oh, looking at these new categories that are emerging again. The end state is Dev Ops Program ability. Apple cases, the Cube coverage, 10th year covering VM world. We're in the lobby of Mosconi in San Francisco. I'm John Favorite Day Volonte. Thanks for watching

>> from Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering M I T. Chief data officer and information quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >> Welcome back to M I. T. In Cambridge, Massachusetts. Everybody. You're watching the cube. The leader in live tech coverage. This is M I t CDO I Q the chief data officer and information quality conference. Someday Volonte with my co host, Paul Galen. Professor Dr Stewart, Mad Nick is here. Longtime Cube alum. Ah, long time professor at M i. T soon to be retired, but we're really grateful that you're taking your time toe. Come on. The Cube is great to see you again. >> It's great to see you again. It's been a long time. She worked together and I really appreciate the opportunity to share our spirits. Hear our mighty with your audience. Well, it's really been fun >> to watch this conference evolved were full and it's really amazing. We have to move to a new venue >> next year. I >> understand. And data we talk about the date explosion all the time, But one of the areas that you're focused on and you're gonna talk about today is his ethics and privacy and data causes so many concerns in those two areas. But so give us the highlight of what you're gonna discuss with the audience today. We'll get into >> one of things that makes it so challenging. It is. Data has so many implications. Tow it. And that's why the issue of ethics is so hard to get people to reach agreement on it. We're talking people regarding medicine and the idea big data and a I so know, to be able to really identify causes you need mass amounts of data. That means more data has to be made available as long as it's Elsa data, not mine. Well, not my backyard. If he really So you have this issue where on the one hand, people are concerned about sharing the data. On the other hand, there's so many valuable things would gain by sharing data and getting people to reach agreement is a challenge. Well, one of things >> I wanted to explore with you is how things have changed you back in the day very familiar with Paul you as well with Microsoft, Department of Justice, justice, FTC issues regarding Microsoft. And it wasn't so much around data was really around browsers and bundling things today. But today you see Facebook and Google Amazon coming under fire, and it's largely data related. Listen, Liz Warren, last night again break up big tech your thoughts on similarities and differences between sort of the monopolies of yesterday and the data monopolies of today Should they be broken up? What do you thought? So >> let me broaden the issue a little bit more from Maryland, and I don't know how the demographics of the audience. But I often refer to the characteristics that millennials the millennials in general. I ask my students this question here. Now, how many of you have a Facebook account in almost every class? Facebook. You realize you've given away a lot of nation about yourself. It it doesn't really occurred to them. That may be an issue. I was told by someone that in some countries, Facebook is very popular. That's how they cordoned the kidnappings of teenagers from rich families. They track them. They know they're going to go to this basketball game of the soccer match. You know exactly what I'm going after it. That's the perfect spot to kidnap them, so I don't know whether students think about the fact that when they're putting things on Facebook than making so much of their life at risk. On the other hand, it makes their life richer, more enjoyable. And so that's why these things are so challenging now, getting back to the issue of the break up of the big tech companies. One of the big challenges there is that in order to do the great things that big data has been doing and the things that a I promises do you need lots of data. Having organizations that can gather it all together in a relatively systematic and consistent manner is so valuable breaking up the tech companies. And there's some reasons why people want to do that, but also interferes with that benefit. And that's why I think it's gonna be looked at real Kim, please, to see not only what game maybe maybe breaking up also what losses of disadvantages we're creating >> for ourselves so example might be, perhaps it makes United States less competitive. Visa VI China, in the area of machine intelligence, is one example. The flip side of that is, you know Facebook has every incentive to appropriate our data to sell ads. So it's not an easy, you know, equation. >> Well, even ads are a funny situation for some people having a product called to your attention that something actually really want. But you never knew it before could be viewed as a feature, right? So, you know, in some case of the ads, could be viewed as a feature by some people. And, of course, a bit of intrusion by other people. Well, sometimes we use the search. Google, right? Looking >> for the ad on the side. No longer. It's all ads. You know >> it. I wonder if you see public public sentiment changing in this respect. There's a lot of concerns, certainly at the legislative level now about misuse of data. But Facebook user ship is not going down. Instagram membership is not going down. Uh, indication is that that ordinary citizens don't really care. >> I know that. That's been my I don't have all the data. Maybe you may have seen, but just anecdotally and talking to people in the work we're doing, I agree with you. I think most people maybe a bit dramatic, but at a conference once and someone made a comment that there has not been the digital Pearl Harbor yet. No, there's not been some event that was just so onerous. Is so all by the people. Remember the day it happened kind of thing. And so these things happen and maybe a little bit of press coverage and you're back on your Facebook. How their instagram account the next day. Nothing is really dramatic. Individuals may change now and then, but I don't see massive changes. But >> you had the Equifax hack two years ago. 145,000,000 records. Capital one. Just this week. 100,000,000 records. I mean, that seems pretty Pearl Harbor ish to me. >> Well, it's funny way we're talking about that earlier today regarding different parts of the world. I think in Europe, the general, they really seem to care about privacy. United States that kind of care about privacy in China. They know they have no privacy. But even in us where they care about privacy, exactly how much they care about it is really an issue. And in general it's not enough to move the needle. If it does, it moves it a little bit about the time when they show that smart TVs could be broken into smart. See, TV sales did not Dutch an inch. Not much help people even remember that big scandal a year ago. >> Well, now, to your point about expects, I mean, just this week, I think Equifax came out with a website. Well, you could check whether or not your credentials were. >> It's a new product. We're where we're compromised. And enough in what has been >> as head mind, I said, My wife says it's too. So you had a choice, you know, free monitoring or $125. So that way went okay. Now what? You know, life goes >> on. It doesn't seem like anything really changes. And we were talking earlier about your 1972 book about cyber security, that many of the principles and you outlined in that book are still valid today. Why are we not making more progress against cybercriminals? >> Well, two things. One thing is you gotta realize, as I said before, the Cave man had no privacy problems and no break in problems. But I'm not sure any of us want to go back to caveman era because you've got to realize that for all these bad things. There's so many good things that are happening, things you could now do, which a smartphone you couldn't even visualize doing a decade or two ago. So there's so much excitement, so much for momentum, autonomous cars and so on and so on that these minor bumps in the road are easy to ignore in the enthusiasm and excitement. >> Well and now, as we head into 2020 affection it was. It was fake news in 2016. Now we've got deep fakes. Get the ability to really use video in new ways. Do you see a way out of that problem? A lot of people looking a Blockchain You wrote an article recently, and Blockchain you think it's on hackable? Well, think again. >> What are you seeing? I think one of things we always talk about when we talk about improving privacy and security and organizations, the first thing is awareness. Most people are really small moment of time, aware that there's an issue and it quickly pass in the mind. The analogy I use regarding industrial safety. You go into almost any factory. You'll see a sign over the door every day that says 520 days, his last industrial accident and then a sub line. Please do not be the one to reset it this year. And I often say, When's the last time you went to a data center? And so assign is at 50 milliseconds his last cyber data breach. And so it needs to be something that is really front, the mind and people. And we talk about how to make awareness activities over companies and host household. And that's one of our major movements here is trying to be more aware because we're not aware that you're putting things at risk. You're not gonna do anything about it. >> Last year we contacted Silicon Angle, 22 leading security experts best in one simple question. Are we winning or losing the war against cybercriminals? Unanimously, they said, we're losing. What is your opinion of that question? >> I have a great quote I like to use. The good news is the good guys are getting better than a firewall of cryptographic codes. But the bad guys are getting batter faster, and there's a lot of reasons for that well on all of them. But we came out with a nautical talking about the docking Web, and the reason why it's fascinating is if you go to most companies if they've suffered a data breach or a cyber attack, they'll be very reluctant to say much about unless they really compelled to do so on the dock, where they love to Brent and reputation. I'm the one who broke in the Capital One. And so there's much more information sharing that much more organized, a much more disciplined. I mean, the criminal ecosystem is so much more superior than the chaotic mess we have here on the good guys side of the table. >> Do you see any hope for that? There are service's. IBM has one, and there are others in a sort of anonymous eyes. Security data enable organizations to share sensitive information without risk to their company. You see any hope on the collaboration, Front >> said before the good guys are getting better. The trouble is, at first I thought there was an issue that was enough sharing going on. It turns out we identified over 120 sharing organizations. That's the good news. And the bad news is 120. So IBM is one and another 119 more to go. So it's not a very well coordinated sharing. It's going just one example. The challenges Do I see any hope in the future? Well, in the more distant future, because the challenge we have is that there'll be a cyber attack next week of some form or shape that we've never seen before and therefore what? Probably not well prepared for it. At some point, I'll no longer be able to say that, but I think the cyber attackers and creatures and so on are so creative. They've got another decade of more to go before they run out of >> Steve. We've got from hacktivists to organized crime now nation states, and you start thinking about the future of war. I was talking to Robert Gates, aboutthe former defense secretary, and my question was, Why don't we have the best cyber? Can't we go in the oven? It goes, Yeah, but we also have the most to lose our critical infrastructure, and the value of that to our society is much greater than some of our adversaries. So we have to be very careful. It's kind of mind boggling to think autonomous vehicles is another one. I know that you have some visibility on that. And you were saying that technical challenges of actually achieving quality autonomous vehicles are so daunting that security is getting pushed to the back burner. >> And if the irony is, I had a conversation. I was a visiting professor, sir, at the University of Niece about a 12 14 years ago. And that's before time of vehicles are not what they were doing. Big automotive tele metrics. And I realized at that time that security wasn't really our top priority. I happen to visit organization, doing really Thomas vehicles now, 14 years later, and this conversation is almost identical now. The problems we're trying to solve. A hider problem that 40 years ago, much more challenging problems. And as a result, those problems dominate their mindset and security issues kind of, you know, we'll get around him if we can't get the cot a ride correctly. Why worry about security? >> Well, what about the ethics of autonomous vehicles? Way talking about your programming? You know, if you're gonna hit a baby or a woman or kill your passengers and yourself, what do you tell the machine to Dio, that is, it seems like an unsolvable problem. >> Well, I'm an engineer by training, and possibly many people in the audience are, too. I'm the kind of person likes nice, clear, clean answers. Two plus two is four, not 3.94 point one. That's the school up the street. They deal with that. The trouble with ethic issues is they don't tend to have a nice, clean answer. Almost every study we've done that has these kind of issues on it. And we have people vote almost always have spread across the board because you know any one of these is a bad decision. So which the bad decision is least bad. Like, what's an example that you used the example I use in my class, and we've been using that for well over a year now in class, I teach on ethics. Is you out of the design of an autonomous vehicle, so you must program it to do everything and particular case you have is your in the vehicle. It's driving around the mountain and Swiss Alps. You go around a corner and the vehicle, using all of senses, realize that straight ahead on the right? Ian Lane is a woman in a baby carriage pushing on to this onto the left, just entering the garage way a three gentlemen, both sides a road have concrete barriers so you can stay on your path. Hit the woman the baby carriage via to the left. Hit the three men. Take a shop, right or shot left. Hit the concrete wall and kill yourself. And trouble is, every one of those is unappealing. Imagine the headline kills woman and baby. That's not a very good thing. There actually is a theory of ethics called utility theory that says, better to say three people than to one. So definitely doing on Kim on a kill three men, that's the worst. And then the idea of hitting the concrete wall may feel magnanimous. I'm just killing myself. But as a design of the car, shouldn't your number one duty be to protect the owner of the car? And so people basically do. They close their eyes and flip a coin because they don't want anyone. Those hands, >> not an algorithmic >> response, doesn't leave. >> I want to come back for weeks before we close here to the subject of this conference. Exactly. You've been involved with this conference since the very beginning. How have you seen the conversation changed since that time? >> I think I think it's changing to Wei first. As you know, this record breaking a group of people are expecting here. Close to 500 I think have registered s o much Clea grown kind of over the years, but also the extent to which, whether it was called big data or call a I now whatever is something that was kind of not quite on the radar when we started, I think it's all 15 years ago. He first started the conference series so clearly has become something that is not just something We talk about it in the academic world but is becoming main stay business for corporations Maur and Maur. And I think it's just gonna keep increasing. I think so much of our society so much of business is so dependent on the data in any way, shape or form that we use it and have >> it well, it's come full circle. It's policy and I were talking at are open. This conference kind of emerged from the ashes of the back office information quality and you say the big date and now a I guess what? It's all coming back to information. >> Lots of data. That's no good. Or that you don't understand what they do with this. Not very healthy. >> Well, doctor Magic. Thank you so much. It's a >> relief for all these years. Really Wanna thank you. Thank you, guys, for joining us and helping to spread the word. Thank you. Pleasure. All right, keep it right, everybody. Paul and >> I will be back at M I t cdo right after this short break. You're watching the cue.

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome to Del >> Technologies with Cubes Coverage Our tenth year covering DMC World del World Here >> Pat Kelsey who test Not your time yet, but you're going to be coming on later. >> Great key note. Thanks for coming by. >> I appreciate it. Explored back tomorrow. You later. All right. >> Not Kelson. You're kicking off the cube coverage. Three days. The wall, the wall colors. Got two sets. Shotgun of content. We got to cube cannons blowing out the content. I'm John Force to minimum David. Want a key note? Uh, really kind of the tectonic plates in the industry. Kind of coming together you had on stage is something. The Tele CEO of Microsoft, Michael Dell, CEO of Down, founder of Del Technology and Pat Gayle Sr. Legends in the industry Captains of the industry. Really a critical juncture for Del technology worlds and a slew of other announcements. But the Del Cloud unified workspace but showing Microsoft on stage. This is a game changing move for Del technology world sure del del Technologies. But also of'Em. Where. Bm where in bed with eight of us. We know that cover that relationship now, going multi cloud all the way with Azure and seeing the CEO on stage Pretty incredible days. >> I think you nailed it. It's a V m wear story, John, and the numbers tell it. VM wears market value's eighty three billion Del owns eighty percent of it. That's sixty >> six billion. What's left. Dell's market value is forty seven billion. That says, the Del Cores worth negative nineteen billion. If it weren't for VM, where Satya Nadella wouldn't be here and you're seeing Michael Dell really drive the integration? He said that several times on stage today. How much collaboration? I love the collaboration across the divisions. You saw Jeff Clarke with Pack yell Sigur talking about new desktop management, talking about VM wear Cloud on del. It's of'Em were story You're right on >> and pack. Kelsey is to really key message up their simplicity, simplifying I t. The Common operate. I felt like we were in a Cube interview four years ago because that's was the basis of hybrid cloud now kind of coming to fruition. Clear visibility, at least on the tech stack side on the operating side, this is an operator world in a developer world, and simplicity and ease of operations is going to be the critical differentiated for the winners. >> Yeah, so So, John. First of all, I think we're getting some clarity on this multi cloud world. Look, one of the things that Veum where did so? Well, not just that wave, A virtual ization, but V Centre was the centre of I t management. And the question is, can they extend that into multi cloud world? When Veum where made the partnership with a W s. It's like, Oh my gosh, what does that mean to Del We got the answer today. What? That means Adele Veum were cloud on Del AMC hardware for me personally. That relationship between VM Rendell I think it's closer from the top executive all the way on down to the field go to market than it ever was. I was one of the first people working with VM where a DMC I watched that relationship emcee always kept them is kind of the way own you, But you're gonna be independent work across the board across the board. You hear. You know V s right. V X, Ray Allen and XX and P. K s and all these wonderful products Dell and VM work developing together, going to market together. It has ripples, but Amazon likes it. Microsoft like that big deal to see Veum wear and Microsoft partnered together. There are some challenges with some other partners Visa vi, Cisco And you know, some of some of the others, like IBM and HB that, if historically partner a lot with the anywhere but a lot of exciting news and definitely on >> and cha gi ve m were knocked down Google last month. >> So, guys, this is the theme we're seeing. We see Zoom went public. That was a videoconferencing disrupting an existing industry people thought would never be disrupted. You heard something and tell a stay on stage. Say on stage here that the new generation of new APS need new infrastructure. So a re vamp, a reset revitalisation of infrastructure to power APS via cloud. It's kind. The same game computing resource is software APS but with a whole new distributor architecture. A boom is coming. We see the stock market is up huge. You see the tech earnings last week across the board. Solid results. This is now a game change. This is not a bad business to be in. You know what was once could be. A declining business sees more remote workers, people working from multiple locations, mobile unification with cloud computing, a complete renaissance across the board game. I mean, this is a big revenue opportunity. >> Well, Mike Michael Dell's Kino wasn't just about products. It was about innovation. He talked about solving world problems, a big picture stuff on. Then he let Pat and Jeff get down a little bit more into the product. Weeds and you'LL hear more of that. But Michael is laying out a huge vision. What a juxtaposition between that's what, four, five years ago, you had sort of Joe Tucci, the chairman, up on stage. Michael was there. You had. You had John Chambers there. Now Michael owns the whole kit and caboodle. He's calling the shots, and people want to do business with them. Veum, where again, As you pointed >> out to me and Lucia question, you've been following the emcee for a long time. When we interviewed Michael Dell years ago, when he was in private that he bought AMC one of things. He said a lot. People were pooh poohing the whole deal. Why they want to buy that boat anchor. He said, scale matters. So are we seeing a new generations do elected to weigh in on this too, of competitive strategy where scale matters because you look at what Del Technologies has done and is doing there essentially rolled up the global I t business and are competing at scale with synergies not even looked at before early on when we talked about it. But we started see from fruit off that scale Amazon prove scale cloud Uh, Microsoft moves of the clouds scale up now the earnings air up Thoughts >> Well, what strikes me, John, is that, you know, they always talk about end end cos talk about synergy. Synergy is a code word for cutting what you heard today. You had be ave up there, you know, talking about a video and talking about the end end capabilities that Del technology brings Del by acquiring the emcee. And of course, VM. Where is a much way more strategic partner for corporations way more than many of these startups? Khun B. so that is their linchpin. You could maybe criticize him on innovation and, oh, maybe they don't have the hottest product, but and end throw in financial services and other services. People want to do business with this company because they trust >> to scale clouds scale, delle scale, scale. >> So we heard Tom suite this morning. Talk about that, Del. Maybe I missed a couple of turns in the marketplace and they needed to go private to kind of rearrange things When they bought emcee. We knew that there are a couple of tail winds that they could arrive hyper converge infrastructure. Absolutely one. We've been watching that trend since day one that their outpacing the industry there. The leader. If you talk from a software standpoint, VM wears their. If you talk from a hardware standpoint, Dell's there who's number two in the space nutanix, which also is a complicated relationship. But Del sells that in Vienna, where still is the primary hyper visor on that environment, so they're still beating the market growth. But they're doing that by gaining market share on DH taking it. Michael always loves to talk about when he's taking market from the business So the question is the overall macro, you know, how long can they keep that double digit growth going? And Dave, I know you're looking to begin with Tom Sweet. A >> ninety billion dollar business grew fourteen percent last year. So this company, in order to grow it has to gain share because the market is not. You're not going that fast. You can't rely on repatriation. I'm sorry that people are going to just disappear from the cloud and come back. So you've got to gain share the other thing, I think, to their favours. Let's face it, they really did have their act together in storage. They were kind of missing the boat there and took their eye off the ball. PC stayed strong. They got their act together in storage, which helped with the product. Mitch mixed higher margins. So last year was a very, very strong year. Twenty twenties going to be a tougher compare, but it seems like they still have some knobs to turn >> just about competition. But, um, Nutanix, what do they do? VM where relationship with a W s. I'm sure. Andy Jackson looking distant, healing words like chaotic, complex, the bane of our existence. Kind of talking about cloud in general and you deal with multiple clouds were packed. Nelson, you say that, um kind of public cloud losing babe flavor here means to you got the public cloud dominating. Now, all this talk about on premise and you got nutanix out there. What? What happens in Nutanix here? >> Yes. Oh, look, Nutanix astute. Doing well on Dell is a very important O am. But way just on nutanix made a big partnership with Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Which, of course, I'm sure Michael doesn't like that happening. You know, Nutanix needs to keep growing their rice software company. It's interesting to talk about the other competitors I mentioned Cisco. Cisco is transforming themselves into a software company. Del Del Technology is the core business wants to be the leading infrastructure company they have VM wear. Bumi and Pivotal are their software branch with the core. Business is really around that scale that that that whole you know, infrastructure piece and it's a different chuck it the Mark >> Chuck Robbins that Cisco CEO Cisco's not yet made a big, bold move like a red at move. Well, could nutanix be that move game? >> Well, I don't know. I don't know. I think I play is an I o T. But But But to your point about your question about the cloud Cloud is not attenuating Amazons, with thirty billion dollar company growing forty one percent a year throwing off twenty five thirty percent operating margins. I mean, that's where the innovation is. That's where the scale is. Everybody wants to do multi cloud because they don't have a cloud. It's your only path if you don't have a cloud. So So I think Cloud's got a long walk >> look and they talk to you know, I tell you, you know, my community got all excited when Michael got up on stage and said, We're all in on Corin eh? Teas and what we're doing with multi cloud you're going to hear under the covers here. Everything is going from VM wear V M as that unit down to container ization, you know, talking about at that application modernization. That's where they're going to lean on VM wear modernizing some what they're doing. And you know, of course, pivotal in Bhumi are the ones that are the tip of the spear in that area. >> I don't think David, it's a suit point there. The Amazon growth will continue because if you look at what Del Technologies has rolled out today, certainly that Microsoft thing is well shot across the bow. Multi cloud, Nice checkbox. Great to see the committee of the CEO there. But everything benefits with sass in the clouds. SAS is a cloud game And if scale on the clouds gonna be there, I only see the public cloud getting stronger because the scales they're the economics cannot be ignored. Certainly the data equation will be interesting, but anon a premise infrastructure that's set up operating like a cloud. I think we'LL ultimately benefit because Amazons weak link, if there is one, is that they really don't have a sass business, right? So they have a series of customers that deuce ***. But that's going to be an opportunity for all those workloads to run on the clouds. And the question is >> going to be >> how how >> cloud like is what we here today. And I I'm a skeptic. I want to see it first, you know, Show me. >> Yeah. No, I mean, what do we hear? What are you know Veum works, you know, services on Azure. It's the STD sea stack. So we understand what that is. It is more than just virtualization. But we used to say Private Cloud just can't be virtual ization plus plus. So Veum wears, you know, expanding and changing that model. But, you know, is it cloud enough? I mean the David, you know? Oh, you want to finance it with an effects we could totally have That affects affects the two. It's great. But, you know, >> at the end of the day, innovation and economics winds and the cloud guys have the scale. I mean, look at the amount of money we heard from Google last month. They spent what, twelve billion dollars in Cap Ex through April. It would take Oracle six years to spend that much in Cap Exit would take IBM three and a half four years to spend that much in CAF X. They're cost structure is going to be so much lower. And ultimately, I believe that's going to win. >> Talk about the winners and losers because we heard at the Bank of America you mentioned also what you just said. They're the future has redefined not how you got here, how you move forward. What's the competitive positioning posture for a winning supplier in the modern era of Iranian Cloud? >> I think it's really smart that Adele is forcing these integrations and getting out ahead of this multi cloud thing, I guess said before. If you don't have a public cloud, you've gotto get into that multi cloud management business. VM wears their their their obvious linchpin. They're early in the game. This is Guest is going to play over the next five to seven years. But VM wear has knocked down eight of us. Google, now Azure. They've got a relationship with Alibaba. It's just a matter of time before you see that one happening. So they are in the pole position. The other one is IBM Red Hat. I mean, those are the two favorites in my >> and by the way, red hats here. And if you want to run, you know the latest greatest red hat solution on the Del Ready notes. You know, of course you can do that. So you know, we'd love to talk about competition, but at the end of the day, it's what's good for customers and can they pick and choose the option of their choice. How much do I get? A full stack. That's the same. And how much is their choice? And I didn't hear the word choice. Ah, lot because, you know, they were focusing on certain announcement day. But absolutely, Adele has done a good job in the space in the cloud space of laying out the top choices that customers want. >> The choice wasn't used because the choices del they'LL ship you VX rails. I'm not sure they'll be shipping other things in there. Maybe they will, too. Thanks for the analysis. Degraded. Al says, man, It's gonna be a great show. Three days of wall to wall comes to cube sets two cannons of content coming your way here A Dell Technology world. The Cube cannons stay with us for three days. I'm jumpers Do Minimum day Volonte Lisa Martin, Rebecca Knight All here in Las Vegas for Delta No stay with us We'LL be right back

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome to the Cubes Live coverage here in Mountain View, California Computer History Museum for Cisco's definite create on John for your host here with Lisa Martin, she's taking a break. Is out getting stories out around for our national Paul Giblin, who's an enterprise architect at Presidio, formerly on the Q Before Cube alumni. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> That's great. CIA's. Well, thank you for >> what? I was looking for this interview because last time we chat with all my cloud hybrid cloud. Now, as an enterprise architect, you're in the middle of all the conversations around how enterprises and commercial businesses are leveraging the cloud multi cloud hybrid cloud. A lot of hype, a lot of reality. But the one thing that's clear is the cloud Cos air blowing away the financial operating performances. Amazon released their earnings today. Amazing financial performance. Amazon Web services have the profit of all of Amazon Amazing. Since they only start in two thousand six, Microsoft change their business plan from being, you know, Hon premise solution software to cloud trillion dollar market cap. It goes on and on and on. But it's a tell sign of the wave that's happening in that is computing network architectures air all transforming an application. Modernization. Tsunami is coming. Renaissance of applications are happening. >> This is a big >> part of what you do when definite creates a Cisco's version of Hey, guys, we got to create the future. Sure, this is the reality. What's your take on all this thes big waves and activity? >> Yeah, I think you know, there's certainly a ton of activity going on around multi cloud, especially with, you know, Amazon. And as your GP uh definite is really a hub for it from the perspective of Cisco. So if you look at the things that people are talking about here this year is supposed to last year, it's It's totally different. Last year, people we're talking >> about Well, how >> do I D ?'Oh, my collaboration absent anyway. And how do I modernized my data center with answerable inscription? Things like that. And this year people are talking about blockchain. They're talking about multi cloud. They're talking about machine learning. There's their spokes over there talking about graft intense airflow and things like that. So what I really like about this event is the fact that it's people who are on the bleeding edge and are thinking about the new thing today before it becomes mainstream. >> Is a great point. Suzy We was on earlier. She's ahead of definite definite create and she had a great team. But one of the things that she said to me, and unless I get your reaction to this is you know she's had research roles in HP, but labs back in the day. So >> you have those research. It's the next big wave coming here. It's really >> people in the bleeding edge who were making it real. So it's not just, you know, some way that's coming. It's actually happening so far. This event really kind of points to what's really now. Your job is you make stuff real right. So you've got a kind of thread. The line between okay, bleeding edge hyper reality and kind of wire it up for customers with Presidio. So you're under a lot of pressure. You've got to do the right thing. You got architect it out. This is kind of where the game is right now. So what's the experience that you're seeing in the real world as this stuff start to become really, as customers want to create better APS better network architectures kind of retrenching happening? What's your What's your thoughts? Whats the key highlights. >> I think people are struggling with decisions around. You know what, what cloud do I put my work loads in? Do I put them in a cloud at all? What workloads do I keep on premise when I'm making these decisions, how do I get these APS to the different places they need to live? How do I have an app that might be stretched from my own premise data center to Azure or to a ws? How do I keep that secure? How doe I network that together? How do I make sure that I'm not the next big headline in the next big reach that comes around So those air, some of the challenges that are out there and they're all things that are difficult to navigate because every organizations a little bit different in terms of the skill sets that they have. So you've got some folks who are right at home. You know, doing a twelve fact, their app on going full on cloud, native and, you know, putting stuff all out on Amazon and not think twice about it. And then you've got a lot of organizations who maybe don't have mature depth shops and have a lot of legacy infrastructure. Folks who still need to retool Enrique it to get up to speed, to bring everything together. >> So skilled gap big time. >> Oh, yeah, >> that's for you guys. Come in. I want to get caught before we came on to talk here live. We're talking off camera around the Gerson Enterprise and a commercial business and the distinction between their needs Enterprise. I was in more complex, you know, multi campus multinational, potentially to commercial businesses. I won't say small music, but people were like pretty much smaller scale. Can you just par set out and talk about what we chatted about the distance between the commercial and the teens and challenging opportunities they have? Visa VI Say it. Enterprise. >> I think it comes down to a lot of the things that we do today are designed to make things simpler. That's not always the case. Sometimes, in order to make it simple. You have to do a very hard thing under the covers to get it that way in the first place. And for a small commercial organization, that's not always the easiest thing in the world. They're typically resource constrained, and their business is not running. Their business is generating revenue through whatever it is that they do now. On enterprise is a little bit different, and enterprise has multiple different revenue streams coming in from multiple different businesses. And they're typically much more invested in a much larger IT staff and have folks who are multi discipline, you know, interface with their peers. Have enough resource is to really, truly adopt a dead mobster. >> Got network team security teams the whole nine yards, I think Chief data officer, all that stuff, commercial organizations Now again, Great opportunity for cloud on both fronts, right? You got enterprises. It kind of would have nicked mixed of public cloud for cloud native work clothes, maybe clean sheet of paper brand new use case hybrid where they won't have operating on premise and then multi cloud that might have azure for three sixty five office and then run Amazon for this or they're so multi cloud seems to be a reality. On one front, commercial organizations seemed tohave cloud on their mind. But legacy apse that they've written software for that might have been written in order, entry system or, you know, some sort of work flow that's tailored for, say, the revenue. How do you advise those two scenarios? >> Yeah, I mean, if you've got a legacy app that you need to contend with, one of the first things you need to do is understand the APP itself. We're having a conversation earlier on what we talked about wass. There's organizations out there who have these applications, and the people who wrote those applications have long ago left. So you've got some new software developers who were coming in. They don't have contextual history, and then you've got infrastructure. People who are keeping the ship afloat but don't know how it floats. They don't understand displacement. >> So you've got these new folks coming in, and then we write our own. We get new ABS higher team. What do we hire ex A. You know, exactly exactly. So you know, there's a decision that >> needs to be made to do. We continue to run this on Prem, Do we consider re platforming in trying to move it out to the cloud Tio? We start fresh and try and re factor. Do we do this in the house? Do we pull in an external third party that try and do that for us? So all the challenges >> so about the relation with Cisco also your party with them you're here a definite create your also a participant in the community. They got definite, which is their core developer. Coming a couple years old. Definite create five years old, Definite creates kind of like brings in the creator's side of it. A za practitioner. Pardon Francisco here to learn and then bring that home to apply to Presidio. How does that work? Explain the folks. How does Presidio were? Francisco. How do you take stuff from definite definite create? How do you commercialize that for your business? And what's the impact of the customer? Sure. >> So it's It's more organic than you might think. So we've got a whole contention of folks here, especially, and I'm going to give a big shout out to our women intact. You were here on DH. These folks are going in there checking out the things that they're into. Is it in? And like I said, there's a diverse group of sessions that are out there spanning machine, learning to blockchain to wish there's somebody right behind us here, I think talking about, >> uh, >> hioki >> it's not a security >> threat somewhere way, air gap, That thing. Yeah, >> So these things folks are sitting in on the sessions that are of interest to them and they're going back to Presidio. And we've got internal WebEx team spaces where all of our folks who are interested in any kind of depth sit down to collaborate. And we are also, you know, maintaining our own internal code repositories where anybody who wants to go take a look at some of the intellectual property we're developing. I can go pull that asset, communicate with the person who's working on it, manipulate it, put it back all that way, also have, you know, sponsorship from the top on down. So from Thomas all the way down it, it's We know that the next generation of engineers need to understand on some level program ability, concepts, and this is a great way to adjust that, >> and this is this is a strategic and parent management behind it. Program ability gives off for some advantages. What's your take on it? I know you. You talk about in the last Cuban. If you want to just come back to the automation opportunity because, you know, let's just face it. Command line interface is how we ran things in networks over the years. But now, with program ability, that's more higher yield activities that architects and network guys and developers can work on. Then the mundane tasks go on. Now if you can program things, certainly with WiFi six and MURAKI, it's all one network. So why not have that visibility to the data? Why not program stuff to make life easier? Your thoughts on this and how it's playing out? >> I think it's, uh, it's playing out slowly and in pockets. I think there's a lot of folks who are working on these kinds of concepts, but they tend to be isolated. So from a network engineer and I come to an event like this, I'm probably going to go back to whatever my day job is, and I might write some of my own code. But unless you have some of those facilities in place that I talked about us having in Presidio, it's difficult to share what you're doing with others on. If it's difficult to share what you're doing with others, she's kind of out on an island, right, so you might have efficiencies that you're gaining. But if you are not taking that and sharing it with other people, your company may not be arriving the full benefit. Now. I think as an individual you could do a lot of good by automating things that you do, which enables you as an individual to focus on even more. But when you look at some of the cool stuff that's out there that could be shared, like the Iraqi demo for the A R looking at access points, that's just phenomenal capability That brings great benefit to a lot of different people. >> So you guys had success with a lot of sharing the collaboration internally, absolute with with the tools you've built. What's the the verdict you guys mentioned? You have some divers, folks here, women in tech, What's the president's here for city like a definite create this year what some of the key highlights from you guys. >> So I think we've got a couple of presenters way have one new definite creator, Mabel. And so she's Ah, believe second female definite creator and the first for Presidio. Jeff and I had taken those down last year and you know, she's she's fantastic. She's running weekly courses for the women and organization to teach them on these concepts. And she's a powerhouse Amazing s o way. Like I said, we have that whole contingent of women in Tech who are here. We've got a handful of gentlemen who are here as well, including Jeff eleven sailor, who you interviewed yesterday, and Greg and use Ellie, both of whom have multiple presentation's going on all standing room only s O. We're definitely invested in different >> directions on the women Tech thing. I think that's huge. I think that's the inclusion thing, that we'd love to see it again. You know, numbers, air still with the percentages, need a lot more work. I mean, just bring in more women and breathes more action. Mohr capabilities. More results. >> Absolutely. I'm all in on women in tech. I have three daughters, so I mean, naturally invested. I'm tryingto help create the world Anyway, I can where they can grow up. And I walked right into a meeting and not have Tio contend with some of the >> democratization of technology is really what it's all about. And, you know, you're not really anything in this community. Let's getem Iraqi, huh? But your house running all your surveillance cameras >> you got in fact are a camera >> app that identifies sexual predators. So I'm gonna have those hanging over my front door now. Nobody's coming anywhere near that. >> That's better than ring. Certainly go in the shark tank pitch that maybe ***. Paul, Thanks for coming on. Great to see you again and congratulate you. Sex distinct, distinct success. Distinguished engineer Now for Ciccio Great company. Give a quick point for the coming. What's going on? Presidio? What do you guys are doing? What kind of work you doing? And how'd people contact you? >> I >> need to be a formal marketeer to do any of this stuff. So, you know >> video is >> authentic and it's real. >> We're We're a three billion dollar organization. We've got three thousand some odd individuals, over half of whom are are certified engineers way. Do everything from cloud Teo I ot to traditional infrastructure collaboration. We've got a huge security practice manage services practice. We do financing s so we really try to be a one stop shop for just about anything. I related a >> lot of creation going on the community here, and I think one of the things that's great is this all about making it really taking the way. That's everyone's riding, getting it, really making it work. Congratulations. >> Thank you very much. >> Cube coverage here, here in Mountain View. I'm John Forward the Cube with Lisa Martin here covering Day two of definite create stay with more live coverage after this short break.

>> System partners. Lie from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cue covering Sisqo Live Europe, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome Back to the Cubes Live coverage Day two of three days of wall to wall coverage here in Europe in Barcelona, Spain. Francisco Live twenty nineteen I'm John Career with Dave. A long takes too many man hosting great loaded interviews this week here. Francisco live guys kicking off day to day one was all the big announcement Cisco putting in all the announcement's really is setting in and the messaging coming together, the product portfolios filling out. Clearly, Cisco is adopting and path to the cloud, taking their data center business, securing that bring that data center into the cloud kind of hybrid multi cloud, big messes around multi cloud and then under the hood data center traffic patterns, air changing. Its not a ribbon replaces extension to the environment. Cisco's intent based networking plus Cloud plus Cloud center management. A lot of stuff we discussed that yesterday, but I want your take. Is Cisco's positioning viable? And what does it mean, Visa VI? The competition, because Cisco is a blue chip tech player, certainly have zillions of customers very relevant. This is a huge impact. How their position themselves do. >> Yeah, so So John Roemer a few years ago we were saying, Hyper clouds going Teo hybrid. The hyper scale clouds, the public loud provide you going to take over the world and boy Cisco's in trouble because if a third or half of the market all of a sudden evaporate from them, those enterprise buyers of switches and routers and everything else like that, Cisco is doomed. Well, you know, we listen to the keynote yesterday and Cisco's talking about all of their solutions anywhere. And when you go through the ecosystem of Public Cloud hybrid Cloud multi Cloud, say this Cisco have a play there, and the answer is absolutely, you know, it's not just the you know, after empty acquisition, which has software in a ws. But, you know, S t win is going to be a critical component to get from my data centers to the public clouds on DH. Cisco has software and solutions and consulting TTO help customers in all of these environment. So we always know that there's partnerships and there's competition. There's a lot of players out there, but you know, it was good to see them. You know, talking. You know a lot about what they're doing with Cooper Netease with Amazon because you can't talk about cloud either public cloud or multi cloud without first talking about Amazon. Last year we were a little critical John and said, OK, Google's great, but Google's number three or four. So you've got to be there was Amazon got to be there with Microsoft and certified that we've already interviewed a couple of service writers always been a strength for Sisko to be in there on. So, you know, good positioning. Well, you know, we talked yesterday a bunch about the bridge to possible on where to go. But the more I think about that anywhere is what Cisco's branded everything. And that's when when you talk multicolored multi clouds, really a whole bunch of clouds and a whole bunch of things. And therefore I need a player that's going to help give me coverage in all of these environment and Cisco's making a strong case to be >> there. And Dave. So I mean Stew's, right? A couple years ago, we were critical of Cisco and I think rightfully so. I think the whole industry looked at them as not in the middle of the fairway and certainly the recovery shot. Francisco is really strong because a lot changed. Go back a few years. They didn't have a good ecosystem for developers. They didn't have a good open source position. They kind of work, you know. Do I go up to stack or not? But they had the court networking, so there's a lot of people are saying, Hey, if Cisco doesn't make a move, they're doomed. We were one of them, so lots changed. You seeing the adoption of micro services containers, AP eyes the growth of definite That Suzy we has initiated is clear proof in my opinion. Then you've got the data center guys saying, Hey, what could take networking and and take this and enable clouds. So Cisco, making good moves, put themselves in pole position for growth? >> Well, I think the first point is if you roll back ten years ago, we've not Francisco. We were critical. What? All of it. It was clear to us that cloud was going to be where all the growth wass and if you didn't have a public cloud, you are going to be in trouble unless you developed a cloud strategy. So certainly Cisco de Liam see now you know William c. V. M. Where none of them really owned a public cloud strategy. And five years ago, they had to figure it out. Well, they've figured out that actually, managing multi clouds is a great opportunity. And so Francisco's got a viable strategy. Networks between clouds are going to flatten their going to need management specifically as it relates to Cisco and maybe their competition. They have TTo position themselves as R multi cloud management system is higher performance and more secure than the competition. That's what they have to sell their customers on. And the second piece of that is they got a transition from selling ports to selling software on there, making that transition. So I like their strategy, By the way, I also like VM wear strategy. They capitulated to a ws and now they're tight with a w s. IBM went out, paid two million dollars for soft layer, so they've got a cloud strategy. Oracles got a cloud strategy. Microsoft got a great cloud stress. So if you go through and >> tickle at the hole and they have clouds, so let's let's just understand something. There's clouds and then clouds strategies. Right? So thirty >> four billion dollars that IBM paying for Red Hat is giving them a multi cloud strategy. More than just saying, we have a bunch of data centers in their medals. But it >> was both, maybe not so much in the public cloud, right? I would say I would argue that their public cloud has failed to meet their expectations. That's funnel cloud IBM. And that's why they had to pay thirty four billion dollars for for Red Hat, I would say just the opposite about Microsoft. Their public cloud strategy has been an enormous success, and they're very well positioned for multi cloud. >> Okay, so let's just put on the table. So Cisco looks at the public cloud as partners, not competitors. So Amazon Azure Google aren't competing with Cisco. There are there ways or they're partnering. We'll we'll come understand. Competition is all about understanding, Absolutely as a cloud. So I would say Cisco's strategy to partner just like he did, just like everyone else. And l did. That's the competitive, not cloud So. Or maybe this is the question. Are the public clouds competitive to Sisko >> that their frenemies John? Uh, >> you know, the answer's. Yes, there's no question about this. They're growing at twenty, thirty, forty percent a year. Francisco and IBM, HP. They're growing it, you know, much lower. So single digits. If that's >> so such on, we know if Amazon if there is a profitable space that they can offer competitive service, they will. You know, security. You said Cisco's got a great position Security, both what they've had for a long time, and they've done acquisitions like duo. More recently on DH, you know, we've seen lots of pieces of the public cloud ecosystem that Cisco's bought over the last few years. Clicker was one on one we spent some time talking about, but absolutely, you know, Amazon goes after some of those pieces, so they're gonna partner Cisco's Got it. Last I checked it at least three dozen products in the eight of us marketplace. But you know it is. They can live there, but there will be competition. So >> this girl's got some huge assets in this game. They've got eight hundred thousand plus customers. They, you know, sixty percent of the networking market, so they own the install base. It's really the only market that you can think of that's a major market where they're the dominant player still owns, you know, sixty percent of market never just go for >> networking, and VM wear for the hyper visor are very similar. In that case, Dave and both have now have a similar strategy as to how they're going. >> That's the most interesting competitive dynamic, in my view, is V M wearing this acquisition of Nice era and obviously, Cisco. Cisco is not going to take this lying down. They've got a C. I A and no, they claim number one. They didn't say whose data that was I was looking squinting for is that I D C. Guard divorce her. But, >> well, let's talk about growth because you know how I always complain about market. Researchers aren't on the mark in terms of the reality of where the market is, So you mentioned growth. So are we. If we're early on cloud growth and that's where the growth is, what is the cloud adoption going to look like over the next ten to twenty years? Is it going to look more like public Cloud or is going to look more like on premises evolving to cloud operations And if the growth of cloud operations is all things wide area Network mentioned the wind, then there's more growth coming. So that's the case. Is Sisko going to be able to capture that growth for the future? >> Well, I mean, in terms of growth, I think eight of us is on its way to being a one hundred billion dollars revenue company, and that's pretty impressive given where they are today. I mean, they're gonna triple in revenue, so that's that's where the growth is. So now Cisco's already participating in a huge TAM. What they've got to do is hold on to that business and identify new opportunities where they could manage multi cloud instances and compete effectively with V M. Where who's coming at it from the hyper visor? And now, they said yesterday, trying to do to networks in storage what it did for systems and then IBM Red hat coming out. It really, from the applications perspective and with the services view Microsoft with a foot in both camps, You got Oracle in its little niche. Just really interest. >> We got an install a base that's moving to the cloud. You got net new company they're going to be started might have on premise. Orgel Full Cloud. This is the question that everyone's going to ask. I think Cisco can take their existing base with moving packets from Point A to Point B and storing and making datum or intelligence moving Date around is a big networking phenomenon. >> Here's the question. Here's a question, Andy Jassy would say. We believe they're going to be far fewer data centers in the future that most data is going to live in the public lounge. The likes of Michael Dell, Yeah, Charles Robbins, et cetera. I think they see the world is a hybrid world, right? That there's going to be Mohr data that's in a hybrid on Prem Plus Cloud, then is going to be in the >> public. You know, I love Andy Jazzy, but I'll just say first of all I understand is bias in his perspective. And I think he's right at one level. Why wouldn't Amazon see people moving data centers to the flower? I get that I say that it's going to be in the networks. That's where the action will be. Where are the networks of the networks? In the cloud of the networks on premise. Are the networks on a phone? I OT So if coyote and edge coming together, it's all one network. Yeah, you're gonna have The value is going to be in the network. Not necessarily. The clouds we say or is shared values. >> Yeah. I mean, you talk about EJ computing and Io ti. Cisco's got muraki, which is growing strong. SD LAN is a critical component for this multi cloud piece. There really posed toe, you know, drive this next generation of five G not something we've dug into a lot yet, but, you know, it is finally coming, you know, really soon here. And Cisco has a lot of those pieces to be able to hit the next. >> It always went back to the data, in my opinion, and the leverage points for data are Saso. Yeah, if your own the applications business, you're doing well there, You're in a good position. All the data's running over Cisco Networks, so that puts them in A in a really good position. And and as we know the likes of a Ws and Microsoft Alibaba senator, they're trying to get as much data into their clouds as possible. >> And what I loved yesterday in the keynote is data was actually one of the central components that they talked about, which the Cisco I know of ten or twenty years ago. I was just bitch that ran over our pipes. So they understand the value of data. And they're driving to that mark. >> Well, we've been saying on the Cube now for nine years days at the center of the value proposition Data at the Centre Data Center. Value proposition. This is actually happening. It's really going way. See? A lot of growth and cloud, Dave. Good commentaries do. Well done. We have Sergeant Gupta, one of the bank. All the leaders coming on the Cube here. Francisco breakdown. I'm gonna ask him the tough questions. Stay with us for day two. Coverage here in the Cube live in Barcelona for a stupid him in David want breaking down all the action. We'll be right back with more after this short break

>>live from San Francisco, extracting the signal from the noise. It's the cues covering Oracle OpenWorld 2015. Brought to you by Oracle. How your hosts, John Courier and Jeff Rick Wait, >>We are here. Live in Howard's treated oracle. OpenWorld for Silicon Angles, The Cube Exclusive coverage Star flagship program. We go out to the events extract the cinnamon noise. I'm John Kerry, the founder of Silicon, and Brian gracefully lead analyst on all the cloud and all the infrastructure stuff going on here. Next guess is Jeffrey Davis, Principal Gore, Oracle, global leader for Deloitte and Touche. Legend in the industry. I've been covering Oracle for a long time. Good to see you, John Bryan allegedly knew she had to get that in there. Love that. You know you guys are. The service's angle has been something that the service's business is. It's been changing radically. Now more than ever with clouds. I really want to get your take because you are an executive looking at this transformation of cloud. But the Lloyd across all the Oracle customer base, your party with customers. So you're the front lines. I gotta ask you straight up. What is the number one thing customers are looking at right now that you partner with four Cloud to figure it out. Is it a migration? All the above, And what do you think about that? So when customers are evaluating the cloud or our clients are looking at the club, you really focus on three things. One is agility. Thea other one is time and the other one is valued. So how quickly can we adopt to the changing environment? How quickly can we leverage technologies like clouds in order to be able to respond to our customers, to adapt to the changing needs of our employees, to embrace our business strategy in a new and innovative way? So I said legend, you know, talk about the eighties for women on camera. That's important point I want to bring up. Is that Is that the old way? Big growth of client server was around software middleware right year BC around you name it that created huge consultancies like Lloyd, you participated in that create a lot of wealth creation for the customers, create value, right, but their cycles were long in the deal. That'll be about 12 13 years now, months and almost a year or two, there were all these big deployments. Now the cloud is accelerating when you compare and contrast time of then share. And now with the cloud Just how much the deployments change the software, the organizations, How you guys operate a new way to do that job well, and we're all responding to the market, right? While responding to customers needs Cloud didn't come about because of technology in it of itself. But we're really all in this ecosystem responding to our customers must customers a really demanding from us is there demanding agility and speed. As I said before, if you take a look at the way we used to do things, basically you had a a large capital investment on the part of the customers. They went, they bought the software, they bought the hardware, they had to hire the expertise of an advantage, mail the eggs, and you're looking at a transformation for them that could take anywhere from 12 to 24 months or longer before they would get time to value. And, you know, these projects didn't go as planned. No, that's this is Yeah, I know the change orders came in paid more cash on DSO. We all got a really bad reputation because of the high costs in a long time to value and even if value was ever realized in some cases, now we take a look at the environment and what the cloud enables us to do is move in a much faster pace. Way used to have what we call a waterfall approach to design and implementation went into a big room and you talked about the world and I never ran that way. And then you put it into the system and then people never really embraced it, because when it came out, it didn't look like anything they thought they were gonna get. This is completely different with cloud. Now you can take an agile approach. Now you can sit and listen to the customer demands very quickly respond to what they think they need, where they really generate value. And then you can focus on those things and very quickly there, in a design session with you And at the end of the day, >>changed management is much easier because they've been a part of the process and also, you know, looking at 90 days sprints. You're looking at things that are done. You know, in >>six months, six months, time to value that can give you compress a competitive advantage. You know, that could help you retain Maur employees or customers. So it's really some timetable. Met Lavery s V p of the Cloud Gru. Gru Integration was saying they were doing provisioning on in 24 minutes. Multiple deployments like like nobody's business. What has them in the timetable that you're seeing for some of these times of value, horizons means hurdles. These milestones said days, weeks, months, hours, minutes. I mean, when you go to a customer base where their expectations of what you guys deliver, there's some insight there. Some of it depends on the environment. So remember they're still clients. We have local customers that are in a highly regulated industry or have a very complex prisons process. Those are gonna take a longer there is they're gonna take in. Technology is not necessarily on the critical path. But when you look at those other areas that frankly, you don't differentiate yourself very much or speed with a solution concave you a competitive advantage. You know, you're looking at a client expectations of anywhere from 90 days, you know, to six months, you know, manager here, very manager, but aggressive. Visa VI the old way. Well, certainly, And the other piece that we're not really talking about is, you know, it's not enough for us to put the technology out there. It's also got to be used and adopted. You know, when you had those large transformations. It's very hard for an organization to absorb all of that change. Now we're looking at the fine entry point that you could get with clouds with that fine entry point. Now we can sub select areas with greatest impact, but we're not changing the entire organization. >>Mark Hurd has the C I. O. G. On this morning and one of the comments that he made. I've heard this a number of times over the last 12 18 months. He essentially said, I have a ton of undifferentiated applications now. They're things that that Oracle thinks are fantastic. HCM and C. R. M and Air P. But in essence, everybody has those. Every business has those very undifferentiated, but they're complicated. What? You Seymour, you see more people saying you know what take those. Help me migrate those into SAS applications, you know, save costs. Where do you see more saying, You know what? Give me the other 20%. The ones that drive business differentiation, ones that are new cloud native applications. What do you see in your mix? What's pushing your customers >>to push you? You know, it depends on the geography, and it depends on the industry and some other things. If you want to talk about North America, which tends to be one of the largest markets in the world, if not the largest market in the world, when you're looking in North America, really people have gone through a lot of the major ear piece. Remember the earlier conversation? You know, they have suffered through tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars, and their boards were not satisfied that they got the results of the expected. Now, when you take a look at what's happening, you know, people are now being much more strategic in their investments, much more prescriptive there. Look how they spent exactly, because now the boards have different expectations. They've already gone and spent all that money on technology. They can't go back to the board. Can't say we need to redo this. What they do are willing to fund is you want to get into a new business. If you want to spin something off, you need to stand it up right away. If a customer you know, provide you a new opportunity, you want to shift to that new opportunity. Really? Well, technology is the basis of a lot of this transformation. So Cloud provides that opportunity and it's modest investment with really quick, high value. It's a great point >>you look at I t In the past decades prior to this evolution, we're seeing the cloud consolidate, consolidate, consolidate, right? I don't know the well again. I just went to the well, apparently running, you know, whatever the model was there. But now they're under a lot of pressure to drive top line revenue. Absolute. Now, the top line revenue equations, a completely different mindset. You have to go out and oh, cut the market. You gotta use a shadow I t or your authorized go out. Do legitimate stand up new platforms are Can you give me an example of that? We're seeing more of that now. A clear Mandate. Cee Io's Go take a New Hill or let's consolidate these apt and reposition for this new use case, which is not. That's experiment, but it's certainly a new market opportunity, and they gotta do their due diligence, so it's almost unparalleled. Due diligence kills your waterfall. That's one doesn't talk about that dynamic. Where examples you give go. Take that new top line revenue driver. So you know that there are customers that are looking at new partnerships in the marketplace, and those new partnerships have dynamic new business models. You know, it's not like opening up another hamburger stand. You know, they're not necessarily expanding into our core business. They're really looking at ways to amplify growth. If you're gonna take that as a strategic position, then you know customer or client of ours would focus on, you know, let's take this innovation the market. We don't want to invest a lot in it, waste a lot of time and lose the competitive advantage. Let's >>get to market first. Let's provide a new product or service to the market where we can move very quickly, and then the >>net result is we can see the benefits right away. And if it isn't way, haven't sunk a lot of time and money and something that's not necessarily gonna have the same values. We just had Shawn Price on. And I'm gonna ask this because it's a lemon that you're in because you're part of the customer right here, the strategic partner of the customer. So that idea top line revenue growth could come from a partner. When I see How do you work in that? Quick, You're cool to work with my Aunt VI's. Bring that into the table. You're absolutely so this market is changing. You know, Cloud clearly changes everything and much more so than some of the things we've seen in the past. And so now we need to position ourselves differently now for the Deloitte Business Model way. We're really in a specialized business of focusing highly on value and value creation. We weren't necessarily in other areas and we have different partnerships now. Those partnerships are shifting. Oracle provides us a complete platform. You know, we don't >>have to really get involved in a lot of the aspects of the platform that, frankly, we're in our core competency and frankly, weren't our clients what >>you talked about that customer interaction? What do you have to do to change what we've seen? Different size, trying different approaches? We've seen some that are partnering with cloud Provider, but they want to be their own flat for acquiring them. What changes in terms of the skills you have to hire the way you expect that interaction toe happen between you and customer. Because to a certain extent, like for developers, developers love self service. They do. You know, they they are shadow I because they're driving What changes in your world for that? >>So this is really kind of an interesting question. Very early on, when Oracle made cloud product available >>in HCM, we saw an opportunity. Our clients had the demand because they wanted to create a more sticky environment from customers. What better >>way than providing them better products in the HCM space? We made major investments there. Now we're a leader in HCM, and if I look back over that experience, what do we do differently? First of all, we had to change our mindset. You know, it's not enough just to say the cloud, but you gotta live the cloud because it truly is more agile. It truly is faster. You can take your old methods and tools and approaches all the things that worked for you before. A lot of them don't work anymore. There's some but some really good winds here, especially in the change management side. Also, you know, we'd have clients that had to kind of do it yourself brain surgery that have to order their own hardware that have provisional themselves. You know, that became a real mess. Now we're looking at something that's a lot different. We're not in that business anymore. You know, we do support on Prem where our clients think it's important and strategic course. But now we've got a new, agile methodology. Now we've trained our workforce. We've got 14,500 professionals around the world. We've had to move that group, and Oracle really helped us do that. They've been very collaborative in sharing I p and sharing methods and tools with us so we can make that adjustment. Not only have we had to change that when you think about our other methodologies, all of our other methodology to create value to change management, they were all thoroughly integrated. We've had to rethink those, but it's been a great story because we could go to the client. We can say we can get you there faster because where technology was a barrier world, >>it was on the critical path. We're now changing that. And by the way, this technology is not your old technology. It's much better. It's much more robust. How >>do you you know, obviously we're here It at an oracle OpenWorld. It could be called Oracle Cloud >>World if we really wanted to. I mean, >>it's a lot of it is the red stack. A lot of it is one cloud. How do you manage that against customers saying, Well, look, there's other options as well. I wanna have the ability to leverage this cloud for something. Oracles cloud for certain things. How do you do? You find your customers want multiple clouds or one cloud is good enough? >>Well, we're all teaching right? We're all teaching the world about God because you know there's still people that look at it in a variety of different ways. I think it's an excellent question, so let's think about this. >>Do you want to be your own systems integrator for your smartphone. You want to go by an operating system? Do you want to go buy a separate peace of heart? Where do you >>want to decide what APS fit? What don't. And do you want to actually try to get those abs together? I don't think we want to do that anymore. And I try to use that as an example for my clients. Tell them. Look, let's not be your own systems integrator. You is a iittie executive. You could be an officer toe, help the organization get to their business goals. You know, you're not in another yourself a business objective, but you could be an agent for change. I try to educate them so they can help their colleagues explain cloud, take the fear out and then show the art of the possible. What about the security model? I mean, I wouldn't get your take on you little bit biased because your manager Oracle really? But what would be global, critical or complementary events? How you feel about it? But the intense security message is really a game changer in my mind. Follows on incredible theory. Incredible application. Certainly the product's gonna be ready soon. If it works, it's like a car that does the key turnover. It's like it's all good on paper. Certainly a game changer. Security outside number One thing you're hearing Get some color to that because, you know, if that plays out, if you believe that end N security on the chips and software Silicon plays out the way they say it would, that's gonna change the game. For sure. It is. So none of us and you can go through a week without hearing about a major security breach. When you think about this, you step back and think about the potential here. Our stuff is starting to talkto our stuff. But our stuff isn't unless it's based on. Oracle isn't all thoroughly integrated, so somebody can break into our stuff and they can get access to our lives and they can change our lives. That's hugely powerful. So we are very concerned about security, and Lloyd is one of the largest organizations. In fact, we have a cyber practice that looks at both Proactiv reactive aspects of security. Here's the big concern we have as all this stuff starts, get interconnected. The Internet of things, security becomes a major issue. We need more breakthroughs and security. And I think oracles on the vanguard certainly as we get into what we call a hyper hybrid cloud on Prem on Cloud. Some of that's gonna be a great emotion is no. Perimeter is nothing either. Protect is the Wild West total while and, you know, despite what you believe, boards and people are not reacting fast enough to security threats. And that's why you're seeing these breaches into my knowledge. I don't think anybody has been breached with Orgel security in place. But that said, you have to be really, But still, they probably would get out. There's not that they're hiding it, but the point is, you need to be united engine system. It's hard to do that in a open source world, right? So you have a horizontally scaled open source phenomenon, and it's growing our market and a vertically integrated product requirement. You believe I want Indian security, then you gonna go vertically integrated. You do purpose built. But if you want scale a 1,000,000,000 large scale a k a cloud, you want horizontally scalable. How do you reconcile that with your customers? Well, you know so again. It's difficult for them because unless you've had a security threat, it's very difficult to really get them to take the initiative. You know, the more that we can build security in, the more that it's covered in the Red Sea. More that we get a comprehensive end to end product. I think it allows us to help the client realize you know the risk and help them. The old Fowler said. In The Cube they had they had this done in 2005. Finally took a bunch of security breaches to get people's attention to your point. It's on everyone's agenda. Number one right it is. And yet you know how much is enough? Well, we find the people are too reactive and not not proactive enough. >>What's the What's the temperature of your customers right now? I mean, you know, Tesla's out, they're disrupting Uber's out. Their Airbnb are they? Are they sort of defensive and paranoid? You know that Andy Grove, always trying to be aggressive with a saying No, no, no, no. I'm not letting these little guys into my market. I'm gonna go be aggressive and try and push back what a general feeling. There's a lot of interesting startup disruption going on really changing industry. >>There is, and you know, there's so many sort of partnerships and alliances, mergers and new innovations. You know, right now, clients are very uncomfortable. Just the transition from on Prem to Cloud is a major change in our clients have been the expert for technology for decades for their organization. They are having trouble keeping up with all of it. It can be disruptive. They're looking at what's unique in their industry. You know what is regulation driving? You know what is innovation driving in their industry? But, you know, they're always on the learning curve. They're always trying to figure out if we want to get your final thought wrapping up here to get your take for the folks that are watching here on camera that couldn't make it here were beloved world. What is this show about it? We've been here six years. You've seen that transformation. About four years ago, Larry looked like a deer in the headlights, almost stuck in his tracks and smoke coming out of his ears like he felt that the scene felt like a pivotal moment couple years ago. And then since then, just been every year. Oracle just gets more and more energy, just like dominated that march of the crowd. Almost like four years ago. Like we're gonna win that. What's your vibe? You see that same thing here and shared some color on the take is over the years, and we've been doing this a lot in various forms Over the years. There's been the promise of riel innovation. There's been the promise, real change in the industry. We saw sort of incremental change. We really see increments. Exponential change now and now. The promises fulfilled. We have real product. We're taking the market. We're doing interesting product, right? Israel product. It's very riel, and we have work to be done. But yeah, really studies and customers? Well, it's an evolution. But this is really sort of an epiphany at the moment, because we've never had, >>you know, full sweets of product in the marketplace. Not right now. I don't know that there are any other large you know. Air Pia options in the clouds away there is for Oracle and look at the host of service is that have been announced over the last year. >>This this particular show for us, you know, really isn't accelerating. All these products and service is in the cloud that are now available. They give us a lot of different options that we never had. A great quote. Put that on a cube. Jim. Thanks for joining Us. Way are here live in San Francisco's Howard Street for the Cube Special. Exclusive coverage of Oracle OpenWorld Q. Be right back with more of this short break. Thanks for watching.