>> Voice over: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2020 virtual, brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. >> Hi, I'm Stu Mittleman, and welcome back to theCUBE's Coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon Europe for 2020. Get to talk to the participants in this great community and ecosystem where they are around the globe. And when you think back to the early days of containers, it was, containers, they're lightweight, they're small, going to obliterate virtualization is often the headline that we had. Of course, we know everything in IT tends to be additive. And here we are in 2020 and containers and virtual machines, living side by side and often we'll see the back and forth that happens when we talk about virtualization in containers. To talk about that topic specifically, happy to welcome to the program, first time guest, Steve Gordon. He's the director of product management at Red Hat. Steve, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks so much Stu, it's great to be here. >> All right, as I teed up of course, virtualization was a wave that swept through the data center. It is a major piece, not only of what's in the data center, but even if you look at the public Clouds, often it was virtualization underneath there. Certain companies like Google, of course, really drove a container adoption. And often you hear when people talk about, I built something CloudNative, that underlying piece of being containerized and then using an orchestration layer like Kubernetes is what they talk about. So maybe stop for a sec, Red Hat of course, heavily involved in virtualization and containers, how you see that landscape and what's the general conversation you have with customers as to how they make the choice and how the lines blur between those worlds? >> Yeah, so at Red Hat, I think we've been working on certainly the current iteration of the next specialization with KVM for around 12 years and myself large portion of that. I think, one thing that's always been constant is while from the outside-in, specialization looks like it's been a fairly stable marketplace. It's always changing, it's always evolving. And what we're seeing right now is as people are adopting containers and even constructs built on top of containers into their workflows, there is more interest and more desire around how can I combine these things, recognizing that still an enormous percentage of my workloads are out there running in virtual machines today, but I'm building new things around them that need to be able to interact with them and springboard off of that. So I think for the last couple of years, I'm sure you yourself have seen a number of different projects pop up and the opensource community around this intersection of containers and visualization and how can these technologies compliment each other. And certainly KubeVirt is one of the projects that we've started in this space, in reaction to both that general interests, but also the real customer problems that people have, as they try and meld these two worlds. >> So Steve, at Red Hat Summit earlier this year, there was a lot of talk around container native virtualization. If you could just explain what that means, how that might be different from just virtualization in general, and we'll go from there. >> Sure, so back in, I think early 2017, late 2016, we started playing around this idea. We'd already seen the momentum around Kubernetes and the result the way we architected OpenShift, three at a time around, Kubernetes has this strength as an orchestration platform, but also a shared provider of storage, networking, et cetera, resources. And really thinking about, when we look at virtualization and containers, some of these problems are very common regardless of what footprint the workload happens to fit into. So leveraging that strength of Kubernetes as an orchestration platform, we started looking at, what would it look like to orchestrate virtual machines on that same platform right next to our application containers? And the extension of that the KubeVirt project and what has ultimately become OpenShift virtualization is based around that core idea of how can I make a traditional virtual machine to a full operating system, interact with and look exactly like a Kubernetes native construct, that I can use from the same platform? I can manage it using the same constructs, I can interact with it using the same console, all of these kinds of ideas. And then on top of that, not just bring in workloads as they lie, but enable really powerful workforce with people who are building a new application in containers that still need some backend components, say a database that's sitting in a VM, or also trying to integrate those virtual machines into new constructs, whether it's something like a pipeline or a service mesh. We're hearing a lot of questions around those things these days where people don't want to just apply those things to brand new workloads, but figure out how do they apply those constructs to the broader majority of their fleet of workflows that exist today. >> All right, so I believe back at Red Hat Summit, OpenShift virtualization was in beta. Where's the product that solution sets till today? >> Right, so at this year's KubeCon, we're happy to announce that OpenShift virtualization is moving to general availability. So it will be a fully supported part of OpenShift. And what that means is, you, as a subscriber to OpenShift, the platform, get virtualization as just an additional capability of that platform that you can enable as an operator from the operator hub, which is really a powerful thing for admins to be able to do that. But also is just really powerful in terms of the user experience. Like once that operator is enabled on your cluster, the little tab shows up, that shows that you can now go and create a virtual machine. But you also still get all of the metrics and the shared networking and so on that goes with that cluster, that underlies it all. And you can again do some really powerful things in terms of combining those constructs for both virtual machines and containers. >> When you talk about that line between virtualization and containers, a big question is, what does this mean for developers? How is it different from what they were using before? How do they engage and interact with their infrastructure today? >> Sure, so I think the way a lot of this current wave of technology got started for people was whether it was with Kubernetes or Docker before that, people would go and grab, easiest way they could grab compute for capacity was go to their virtual machine firm, whether that was their local virtualization estate at their company, or whether that was taking a credit card to public Cloud, getting a virtual machine and spinning up a container platform on top of that. What we're now seeing is, as that's transitioning into people building their workloads, almost entirely around these container constructs, in some cases when they're starting from scratch, there is more interest in, how do I leverage that platform directly? How do I, as my application group have more control over that platform? And in some cases, depending on the use case, like if they have demand for GPUs, for example, or other high-performance devices, that question of whether the virtualization layer between my physical host and my container is adding that much value? But then still wanting to bring in the traditional workloads they have as well. So I think we've seen this gradual transition where there is a growing interest in reevaluating, how do we start with container based architectures? To, okay, how has we transitioned towards more production scenarios and the growth in production scenarios? What tweaks do we make to that architecture? Does it still make sense to run all of that on top of virtual machines? Or does it make more sense to almost flip that equation as my workload mix gradually starts changing? >> Yeah, two thoughts come to mind on that. Number one is, are there specific applications out there, or I think about traditional VMs, often that Windows environments that we have there, is that some of the use case to bring them over to containers? And then also, once I've gotten it into the container environment, what are the steps to move forward? Because I have to expect that there's going to be some refactoring, some modernization to take advantage of the innovation and pace of change, not just to take it, containerize it and leave it. >> Yeah, so certainly, there is an enormous amount of potential out there in terms of Windows workloads, and people are definitely trying to work out how do they leverage those workloads in the context of OpenShift and Kubernetes based environment. And Windows containers obviously, is one way to address that. And certainly, that is very powerful in and of itself, for bringing those workloads to OpenShift and Kubernetes, but does have some constraints in terms of needing to be on a relatively recent version of Windows server and so on for those workloads to run in that construct. So where OpenShift virtualization helps with that is we can actually take an existing virtual machine workload, bring that across, even if it's say Windows server 2012, run it on top of the OpenShift virtualization platform as a VM, And then if or when you start modernizing more of that application, you can start teasing that out into actual containers. And that's actually something, it is one of our very early demos at Red Hat Summit 2018, I think was how you would go about doing that, and primarily we did that because it is a very powerful thing for customers to see how they can bring those, all the applications into this mix. And the other aspect of that I'll mention is one of our financial services customers who we've been working with, basically since that demo, they saw it from a hallway at Red Hat Summit and came and said, "Hey, we want to talk to you guys about that." One of the primary workload, is a Windows 10 style environment, that they happened to be bringing in as well. And that's more in that construct of treating OpenShift almost as a pool of compute, which you can use for many different workload types with the Windows 10 being just one aspect of that. And the other thing I'll say in terms of the second part of the question, what do I need to do in terms of refactoring? So we are very conscious of the fact that, if this is to provide value, you have to be able to bring in existing virtual machines with as minimal change as possible. So we do have a migration solution set, that we've had for a number of years, for bringing our virtual machines to Linux specialization stacks. We're expanding that to include OpenShift virtualization as a target, to help you bring in those existing virtual machine images. Where things do change a little bit is in terms of the operational approaches. Obviously, admin console now is OpenShift for those virtual machines, that does right now present a change. But we think it is a very powerful opportunity in terms of, as people get more and more production workloads into containers, for example, it's going to become a lot more appealing to have a backup solution, for example, that can cater to both the virtual machine workloads as well as any stateful container workloads you may have, which do exist in increasing numbers. >> Well, I'm glad you brought up a stateful discussion because as an industry, we've spent a long time making sure that virtual machines, have storage and have networking that is reliable in performance and the like. What should customers be thinking about and operators when they move to containers? Are there things that are different you manage bringing into, this brings them into the OpenShift management plane. So what else should I be thinking about? What do I need to do differently when I've embraced this? >> Yeah, so I think in terms of the things that virtual machine expects, the two big ones that come to mind to me are networking and storage. The compute piece is still there obviously, but I think is a little less complicated to solve just because the OpenShift and broader Kubernetes community have done such a great job of addressing that piece, and that's really what attracted us to it in the first place. But on the networking side, certainly the expectations of a traditional virtual machine are a little bit different to the networking model of Kubernetes by default. But again, we've seen a lot of growth in container based applications, particularly in the context of CloudNative network functions that have been pushing the boundaries of Kubernetes networking as well. That's resulted in projects like Motus, which allow us to give a virtual machine related to networking interface that it expects, but also give it the option of using the pod networking natively, for some of those more powerful constructs that are native to Kubernetes. So that's one of those areas where you've got a mix of options, depending on how far you want to go from a modernization perspective versus do I just want to bring this workload in and run it as it is. And my modernization is more built around it, in terms of the other container based things. Then similarly in storage, it's an area where obviously at Red Hat, we've been working close with the OpenShift container storage team, but we also work with a number of ecosystem partners on, not just how do we certify their storage plugins and make sure they work well both for containers and virtual machines, but also how do we push forward upstream efforts, around things like the container storage interface specification, to allow for these more powerful capabilities like snapshots cloning and so on which we need for virtual machines, but are also very valuable for container based workloads as well. >> Steve, you've mentioned some of the reasons why customers were moving towards this environment. Now that you're GA, what learnings did you have during beta? Are there any other customer stories you could share that you've learned along this journey? >> Yeah, so I think one of the things I'll say is that, there's no feedback like direct product in the hands of customer feedback. And it's really been interesting to see the different ways that people have applied it, not necessarily having set out to apply it, but having gotten partway through their journey and realized, hey, I need this capability. You have something that looks pretty handy and then having success with it. So in particular, in the telecommunications vertical, we've been working closely with a number of providers around the 5G rollouts and the 5G core in particular, where they've been focused on CloudNative network functions. And really what I mean by that is the wave of technology and the push they're making around 5G is to take what they started with network function virtualization a step further, and build that next generation network around CloudNative technologies, including Kubernetes and OpenShift. And as I've been doing that, I have been finding that some of the vendors are more or less prepared for that transition. And that's where, while they've been able to leverage the power of containers for those applications that are ready, they're also able to leverage OpenShift virtualization as a transitionary step, as they modernize the pieces that are taking a little bit longer. And that's where we've been able to run some applications in terms of the load balancer, in terms of a carrier grade database on top of OpenShift virtualization, which we probably wouldn't have set out to do this early in terms of our plan, but we're really able to react quickly to that customer demand and help them get that across the line. And I think that's a really powerful example where the end state may not necessarily be to run everything as a virtual machine forever, but that was still able to leverage this technology as a powerful tool in the context of our broadened up optimization effort. >> All right, well, Steve, thank you so much for giving us the updates. Congratulations on going GA for this solution. Definitely look forward to hearing more from the customers as they come. >> All right, thanks so much Stu. I appreciate it. >> All right, stay tuned for more coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon EU 2020, the virtual edition. I'm Stu Stu Mittleman. And thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back over 17,000 in attendance here for Cisco live 2020 in Barcelona ops 2 min and my co-host is Dave Volante and to help us to dig in to of course one of the most important topic of the day of course that security we're thrilled to have back a distinguished engineer Francisco one of our cube alumni TK kia nini TK thanks so much for joining us ideal man good good all right so TK it's 2020 it's a new decade we know the bad actors are still out there they're there the the question always is you know it used to be you know how do you keep ahead of them then I've here Dave say many times well you know it's not you know when it's it's not if it's when you know you probably already have been ok you know compromise before so it gives latest so you know what you're seeing out there what you're talking to customers about in this important space yeah it's it's kind of an innovation spiral you know we we innovate we make it harder for them and then they innovate they make it harder for us right and round and round we go that's been going on for for many years I think I think the most significant changes that have happened recently have to deal with not essentially their objectives but how they go about their objectives and Defenders topologies have changed greatly instead of just your standard Enterprise you now have you know hybrid multi cloud and all these new technologies so while while all that innovation happens you know they get a little clever and they find weaknesses and round and round we go so we talked a lot about the sort of changing profile of the the threat actors gone from hacktivists to criminals now is a huge business and nation-states even what's that profile looked like today and how has that changed over the last decade or so you know that's pretty much stayed the same you know bad guys are bad guys at some point in time you know just how how they go about their business their techniques they're having to like I said innovate around you know we make it harder for them they you know on Monday we're safe on Tuesday we're not you know and then on Wednesday it switches again so so it talked about kind of this multi-cloud environment when we talked to customers it's like well I want the developer to be able to build their application and not really have to think too much underneath it that that has to have some unique challenges we know security we knew long ago well I just go to the cloud it doesn't mean they take care of it some things are there some things they're gonna remind you now you need to make sure you set certain things otherwise you could be there but how do we make sure that Security's baked in everywhere and is up as a practice that everybody's doing well I mean again some of the practices hold true no matter what the environment I think the big thing was cognitive is in back in the day when when you looked at an old legacy data center you were apart sort of administrator in your part detective most people don't even know what's running on there that's not true in cloud native environments some some llamó file some some declaration it's it's just exactly what production should look like right and then the machines instantiate production so you're doing things that machine scale forces the human scale people to be explicit and and for me I mean that's that's a breath of fresh air because once you're explicit then you take the mystery out of what you're protecting how about in terms of how you detect threats right phishing for credentials has become a huge deal but not just you know kicking down the door or smashing a window yeah using your your own credentials to get inside of your network so how is that affected the way in which you detect yeah it's it's a big deal you know a lot of a lot of technology has a dual use and what I mean by that is network cryptology you know that that whole crypto on the network has made us safer for us to compute over unsecure networks and unfortunately it works just as well for the bad guys so you know all of their malicious activity is now private to so it you know for us we just have to invent new ways of detecting direct inspection for instance I think is a thing of the past I mean we just can't depend on it anymore we have to have tools of inference and not only that but it's it's gave rise in a lot of innovation on behavioral science and as you say you know it's it's not that the attacker is breaking into your network anymore they're logging in okay what do you do then right Alice Alice's account it's not gonna set off the triggers so you have to say you know when did Alice start to behave differently you know she's working in accounting why is she playing around with the source code repository that's that's a different thing right yeah automation is such a big trend you know how do we make sure that automation doesn't leave us more vulnerable that's rarity because we need to be able automate we've gone beyond human scale for most of these configurations that's exactly right and and how do how do we I always say just with security automation in particular just because you can automate something doesn't mean you should and and you really have to go back and have practices you know you could argue that that this thing is just a you know machine scale automation you could do math on a legal pad or you can use a computer to do it right what so apply that to production if you mechanized something like order entry or whatever you're you're you're automating part of your business use threat modeling you use the standard threat modeling like you would your code the network is code now right and storage is code and everything is code so you know just automate your testing do your threat modeling do all that stuff please do not automate for your attacker matrix is here I want to go back to the Alice problem because you're talking about before you have to use inference so Alice's is in the network and you're observing her moves every day and then okay something anomalous occurs maybe she's doing something that normally she wouldn't do so you've got to have her profile in her actions sort of observed documented stored the data has got to be there and at the same time you want to make sure it's always that balance of putting handcuffs on people and you know versus allowing them to you know do their job and be productive at the same time as well you don't want to let the bad guys know that you know that alice is doing something that she didn't be doing is actually not Alice so all that complexity how are you dealing with it and what's the data model look like doing it machines help let's say that machines can help us you know you and I we have only so many sense organs and the cognitive brain can only store so many so much state machines really help us extend that and so you know looking at not three dimensions of change but 7000 dimensions have changed right something in the machine is going to say there's an outlier here that's interesting and you can get another machine to say that's that's interesting maybe I should focus on that you build these analytical pipelines so that at the end of it you know they may argue with each other all the way to the end but at the end you have a very high fidelity indicator that might be at the protocol level it might be at the behavioral level it might be seven days back or thirty days back all these temporal and spatial dimensions it's really cheap to do it with a machine yeah and if we could stay on that for a second so it I've tried to understand I know that's a high level example but is it best practice to have the Machine take action or is it is it an augmentation and I know it depends on the use case but but how is that sort of playing out again you have to do all of this safely okay a lot of things that machines do don't return back to human scale stuff that returns back to human scale that humans understand that is as useful so for instance if machines you know find out all these types of in assertions even in medical you know right now if if you've got so much telemetry going into the medical field say the machine tells you you have three weeks to live I mean you better explain what the heck you know how you came about that assertion it's the same with security you know if I'm gonna say look we're gonna quarantine your machine or we're gonna reimage this machine it's not I'm not like picking movies for you or the next song you might listen to this is high stakes and so when you do things like that your analytics needs to have what it's called entailment you have to explain what it is how you got to that assertion that's become incredibly important in how we measure our effectiveness in in doing analytics that's interesting because because you're using a lot of machine intelligence to do this and a lot of AI is blackbox you're saying you cannot endure that blackbox problem in security yeah that black box is is is very dangerous you know I you know personally I feel that you know things that should be open sourced this type of technology it's so advanced that the developer needs to understand that the tester needs to understand that certainly the customer needs to understand it you need to publish papers and be very very transparent with this domain because if it is in fact you know black box and it's given the authority to automate something like you know shut down the power or do things like that that's when things really start to get dangerous so good TK what wonder you know give us the latest on stealthWatch there you know Cisco's positioning when it when it comes to everything we've been talking about here you know stealthWatch again is it's been in market for quite some time it's actually been in market since 2001 and when I when I look back and see how much has changed you know how we've had to keep up with the market and again it's not just the algorithms rewrite for detection it's the environments have changed right but when did when did multi-cloud happen so so operating again cusp it's not that stealthWatch wants to go their customers are going there and they want the stealthWatch function across their digital business and so you know we've had to make advancements on the changing topology we've had to make advancements because of things like dark data you know the the network's opaque now right we have to have a lot of inference so we've just you know kept up and stayed ahead of it you know we've been spending a lot of time talking to developer communities and there's a lot of open-source tooling out there that that's helping enable developers specifically in security space you were talking about open-source earlier how does what you've been doing the stealthWatch intersect with that yeah that's always interesting too because there's been sort of a shift in in let's call them the cool kids right the cool kids um they want everything is code right so it's not about what's on glass or you know a single pane of glass anymore it's it's what stealth watches code right what's your router as code look at definitely definite is basically Cisco as code and it's beautiful because that is infrastructure as code I mean that is the future and so all the products not just stealthWatch have beautiful api's and that's that's really exciting I've been saying for a while now it's do you I think you agree is that that is a big differentiator for Cisco I think you you're one of the few if not the only large established player and the enterprise that has figured out that sort of infrastructure is code play others have tried and are sort of getting there but start-stop you use a term that really cool is like living off the land you know bear bear grylls like the guy who lives off the land so and and and threat actors are doing that now they're using your own installed software and tooling to hack you and steal from you how were you dealing with that problem yeah it's a tough one and like I said you know much respect the the adversary is talented and they're patient they're well funded okay that's that's where it starts and so you know why why bring why bring an interpreter to a host when there's already one there right why right all this complicated software distribution when I can just use yours and so that's that's where the play the game starts and and the most advanced threats aren't leaving footprints because the footprints are already there you know they'll get on a machine and behaviorally they'll check the cache to see what's hot and what's hot in the cache means that behaviorally it's a path they can go they're not cutting a new trail most of the time right so living off the land is not only the tools that they're using the automation your automation they're using against you but it's also behavioral and so that that makes it you know it makes it harder it's it impossible no can we make it harder for them yes so yeah I'm having fun and I've been doing this for over twenty five years every week it's something new well it's a hard problem you're attacking and you know Robert Herjavec who came of the cube sort of opened my eyes and you think about what are we securing we're securing everything I mean a critical infrastructure were essentially assured securing the entire global economy and he said something that really struck me since there's an 86 trillion dollar economy we spend point zero one four percent on securing that economy and that's nothing now of course he's an entrepreneur and he's pimping for his his business but it's true we are barely scratching the surface of this problem yeah and it's changing I mean it's changing it could it be better yes it is changing his board awareness well you know 20 years ago they then write me to a dinner party they you know what does your husband do I'd say you know cyber security or something they'd roll their eyes and change the subject now they asked me the same question so oh you know my computer's running really slow right these are not this is everyone I'm worried about a life hack yeah how do I protect myself or what about these company us the bank I mean that's guys a dinner table company every party so now now you know I just make something up I don't do cybersecurity I just I you know a tort or a jipner's you've been in this business forever I can't remember have I ever asked you the superhero question what is that your favorite superhero that's a tough one there's all the security guys I know they like always dreamed about saving the world [Laughter] you're my superhero man I love what you do I think you're a great asset for Cisco and Cisco's customers really Thanks TK give us a final word if people want to you know find out more about about what Cisco's doing read more what you're working on what's some of the best resources I have to go to do you know just drop by the web pages I mean everything's published out that like I said even even for the super nerdy you know we publish all our our lars security analytics papers I think we're over 50 papers published in the last 12 years TK thank you so much always a pleasure to catch it all right yeah I think they've traveled thank you so much for de Villante um Stu Mittleman John Fourier is also in the house we will be back with lots more coverage here from Cisco live 20/20 in Barcelona thanks for watching the keys

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you [Music] [Applause] [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners come back this is the cubes coverage of Cisco live 2020 here in Barcelona doing about three and a half days of wall-to-wall coverage here I'm Stu minim and my co-host for this segment is Dave Volante John furs also here scouring the floor and really happy to welcome to the program to first-time guests I believe so Ron Daris is the product manager of product marketing for cloud computing with Cisco and sitting to his left is Matt Ferguson who's director of product development also with the Cisco cloud group Dave and I are from Boston Matt is also from the Boston area yes and Costas is coming over from London so thanks so much for joining us thanks IBPS all right so obviously cloud computing something we've been talking about many years we've really found fascinating the relationship Cisco's had with its customers as well as through the partner ecosystem had many good discussions about some of the announcements this week maybe start a little bit you know Cisco's software journey and you know positioning in this cloud space right now yes oh so it's a it's a really interesting dynamic when we start transitioning to multi cloud and we actually deal with cloud and compute coming together and we've had whether you're looking at the infrastructure ops organization or whether you're looking at the apps operations or whether you're looking at you know your dev environment your security operations each organization has to deal with their angle at which they view you know multi cloud or they view how they actually operate within those the cloud computing context and so whether you're on the infrastructure side you're looking at compute you're looking at storage you're looking at resources if you're an app operator you're looking at performance you're looking at visibility assurance if you are in the security operations you're looking at maybe governance you're looking at policy and then when you're a developer you really sort of thinking about CI CD you're talking about agility and there's very few organizations like Cisco that actually is looking at from a product perspective all those various angles of multi-cloud yeah definitely a lot of piece of cost us maybe up level it for us a little bit there's there's so many pieces you know we talked for so long you know you don't talk to any company that doesn't have a cloud strategy doesn't mean that it's not going to change over time and it means every company's got at home positioning but talk about the relationship cisco has with its customer and really the advisory position that you want to have with them it's actually a very relevant question to what to what Matt is talking about because we talk a lot about multi cloud as a trend and hybrid clouds and this kind of relationship between the traditional view of looking at computing data centers and then expanding to different clouds you know public cloud providers have now amazing platform capabilities and if you think about it the the it goes back to what Matt said about IT ops and the development kind of efforts why is this happening really you know there's there's the study that we did with with an analyst and there was an amazing a shocking stat around how within the next three years organizations will have to support 50% more applications than they do now and we have been trying to test this stat our events that made customer meetings etc that is a lot of a lot of change for organizations so if you think about why are they use why do they need to basically what go and expand to those clouds is because they want to service IT Ops teams want ER servers with capabilities their developers faster right and this is where you have within the IT ops kind of theme organization you have the security kind of frame the compute frame the networking where you know Cisco has a traditional footprint how do you blend all this how do you bring all this together in a linear way to support individual unique application modernization efforts I think that's what are we hearing from customers in terms of the feedback and this is what influences our strategy to converts the different business units and engineering engineering efforts right couple years ago I have to admit I was kind of a multi cloud skeptic I always said I thought it was more of a symptom than actually a strategy a symptom of you know shadow IT and different workloads and so forth but now I'm kind of buying in because I think IT in particular has been brought in to clean up the crime scene I often say so I think it is becoming a strategy so if you could help us understand what you're hearing from customers in terms of their strategy toward the multi cloud and how Cisco that was mapping into that yeah so so when we talk to customers it comes back to the angle at which they're approaching the problem in like you said the shadow IT has been probably around for longer than anybody won't cares to admit because the people want to move faster organizations want to get their product out to market sooner and and so what what really is we're having conversations now about you know how do I get the visibility how do I get you know the policies and the governance so that I can actually understand either how much I'm spending in the cloud or whether I'm getting the actual performance that I'm looking for that I need the connectivity so I get the bandwidth and so these are the kinds of conversations that we have with customers is is is going I realize that this is going on now I actually have to now put some you know governance and controls around that is their products is their solutions is their you know they're looking to Cisco to help them through this journey because it is a journey because as much as we talk about cloud and you know companies that were born in the cloud cloud native there is a tremendous number of IT organizations that are just starting that journey that are just entering into this phase where they have to solve these problems yeah I agree and it's just starting the journey with a deliberate strategy as opposed to okay we got this this thing but if you think about the competitive landscape its kind of interesting and I want to try to understand where Cisco fits because again you you initially had companies that didn't know in a public cloud sort of pushing multi cloud and you'd say oh well okay so they have to do that but now you see anthos come out with Google you see Microsoft leaning in we think eventually AWS is going to lean in and then you say I'm kind of interested in working with someone whose cloud agnostic not trying to force now now Cisco a few years ago you didn't really think about Cisco as a player now so this goes right in the middle I have said often that Cisco's in a great position John Fourier as well to connect businesses and from a source of networking strength making a strong argument that we have the most cost-effective most secure highest performance network to connect clouds that seems to be a pretty fundamental strength of yours and does that essentially summarize your strategy and and how does that map into the actions that you're taking in terms of products and services that you're bringing to market I would say that I can I can I can take that ya know it's a chewy question for hours yeah so I I was thinking about a satellite in you mentioned this before and you're like okay that's you know the world is turning around completely because we we seem to talk about satellite e is something bad happening and now suddenly we completely forgot about it like let let free free up the developers gonna let them do whatever they want and basically that is what I think is happening out there in the market so all the solutions you mentioned in the go to market approaches and the architectures that the public cloud providers at least are offering out there certainly the big three have differences have their strengths and I think those strengths are closer to the developer environment basically you know if you're looking into something like a IML there's one provider that you go with if you're looking for a mobile development framework you're gonna go somewhere else if you're looking for a dr you're gonna go somewhere else maybe not a big cloud but your service provider that you've been dealing with all these all these times and you know that they have their accreditation that you're looking for so where does Cisco come in you know we're not a public cloud provider we offer products as a service from our data centers and our partners data centers but at the - at the way that the industry sees a cloud provider a public cloud like AWS a sure Google Oracle IBM etc we're not that we don't do that our mission is to enable organizations with software hardware products SAS products to be able to facilitate their connectivity security visibility observability and in doing business and in leveraging the best benefits from those clouds so we we kind of we kind of moved to a point where we flip around the question and the first question is who is your cloud provider what how many tell us the clouds you work with and we can give you the modular pieces you can put we can put together for you so there's so that you can make the best out of your plan it's been being able to do that across clouds we're in an environment that is consistent with policies that are consistent that represent the edicts of your organization no matter where your data lives that's sort of the the vision in the way this is translated into products into Cisco's product you naturally think about Cisco as the connectivity provider networking that's that's really sort of our you know go to in what we're also when we have a significant computing portfolio as well so connectivity is not only the connectivity of the actual wire between geographies point A to point B in the natural routing and switching world there's connectivity between applications between cute and so this week you know the announcements were significant in that space when you talk about the compute and the cloud coming together on a single platform that gives you not only the ability to look at your applications from a experience journey map so you can actually know where the problems might occur in the application domain you can actually then go that next level down into the infrastructure level and you can say okay maybe I'm running out of some sort of resource whether it's compute resource whether it's memory whether it's on your private cloud that you have enabled on Prem or whether it's in the public cloud that you have that application residing and then why candidly you have the actual hardware itself so inter-site it has an ability to control that entire stack so you can have that visibility all the way down to the hardware layer I'm glad you brought up some of the applications wonderful we can you know stay there for a moment and talk about some of the changing patterns for customers a lot of talk in the industry about cloud native often it gets conflated with you know microservices containerization and lots of the individual pieces there but you know one of our favorite things that been talked about this week is the software that really sits at the application layer and how that connects down through some of the infrastructure pieces so help us understand what you're hearing from customers and and where how you're helping them through this transition to constants as you were saying absolutely there's going to be lots of new applications more applications and they still have the the old stuff that they need to continue to manage because we know an IT nothing ever goes away that's that's definitely true I was I was thinking you know there's there's a vacuum at the moment and and there's things that Cisco is doing from from technology leadership perspective to fill that gap between the application what do you see when it comes to monitoring making sure your services are observable and how does that fit within the infrastructure stack you know everything upwards network the network layer base again that is changing dramatically some of the things that Matt touched upon with regards to you know being able to connect the the networking the security in the infrastructure the computer infrastructure that the developers basically are deploying on top so there's a lot of there's a lot of things on containerization there's a lot of in fact it's you know one part of the of the self-injure side of the stack that you mentioned and one of the big announcements you know that there's a lot of discussion in the industry around ok how does that abstract further the conversation on networking for example because that now what we're seeing is that you have huge monoliths enterprise applications that are being carved down into micro services ok they you know there's a big misunderstanding around what is cloud native is it related to containers different kind of things right but containers are naturally the infrastructure de facto currency for developers to deploy because of many many benefits but then what happens you know between the kubernetes layer which seems to be the standard and the application who's gonna be managing services talking to each other that are multiplying you know things like service mesh network service mess how is the network evolving to be able to create this immutable infrastructure for developers to deploy applications so there's so many things happening at the same time where cisco has actually a lot of taking a lot of the front seat this is where it gets really interesting you know it's sort of hard to squint through because you mentioned kubernetes is the de facto standard but it's a de-facto standard that's open everybody's playing with but historically this industry has been defined by you know a leader who comes out with a de facto standard kubernetes not a company right it's an open standard and so but there's so many other components than containers and so history would suggest that there's going to be another de facto standard or multiple standards that emerge and your point earlier is you you got to have the full stack you can't just do networking you can't just do certain few so you guys are attacking that whole pie so how do you think this thing will evolve I mean you guys are obviously intend to put out as Casta as wide a net as possible capture not only your existing install base but attractive attract others and you're going aggressively at it as are as are others how do you see it shaking out deep do you see you know four or five pockets do you see you know one leader emerging I mean customers would love all you guys to get together come up with standards that's not going to happen so we're it's jump ball right now well yeah and you think about you know to your point regarding kubernetes is not a company right it is it is a community driven I mean it was open source by a large company but it's but it's community driven now and that's the pace at which open source is sort of evolving there is so much coming at IT organizations from a new paradigm a new software something that's you know the new the shiny object that sort of everybody sort of has to jump on to and sort of say that is the way we're going to function so IT organizations have to struggle with this influx of just every coming at them and every angle and I think what's starting to happen is the management and the you know that stack who controls that or who is helping IT organizations to manage it for them so really what we're trying to say is there's elements that you have to put together that have to function and kubernetes is just one example docker the operating system that associated with it that runs all that stuff then you have the application that goes rides IDEs on top of it so now what we have to have is things like what we just announced this week HX ap the application platform for HX so you have the compute cluster but then you have the on top of that that's managed by an organization that's looking at the security that's looking at the the actual making opinions about what should go in the stock and managing that for you so you don't have to deal with that because you can just focus on the application development yeah I mean Cisco's in a strong position to do there's no question about it and to me it comes down to execution if you guys execute and deliver on the the products and services that you say you know your nouns for instance this week and previously and you continue on a roadmap you're gonna get a fair share of this marketplace I think there's no question so last topic before we let you go is love your viewpoint on customers what's separating kind of leaders from you know the followers in this space you know there's so much data out there you know I'm a big fan of the state of DevOps report yeah focus you know separate you know some but not the not here's the technology or the piece but the organizational and you know dynamics that you should do so it sounds like Matt you you like that that report also love them what are you hearing from customers how do you help guide them towards becoming leaders in the cloud space yeah the state of DevOps report was fascinating and I mean they've been doing that for what a number of years yeah exactly and really what it's sort of highlighting is two main factors that I think that are in this revolution or this this this paradigm shift or journey we're going through there's the technology side for sure and so that's getting more complex you have micro services you have application explosion you have a lot of things that are occurring just in technology that you're trying to keep up but then it's really about the human aspect that human elements the people about it and that's really I think what separates you know the the elites that are really sort of you know just charging forward in the head because they've been able to sort of break down the silos because really what you're talking about in cloud native DevOps is how you take the journey of that experience of the service from end to end from the development all the way to production and how do you actually sort of not have organizations that look at their domain their data set their operations and then have to translate that or have to sort of you know have another conversation with another organization that it doesn't look at that that has no experience of that so that is what we're talking about that end-to-end view is that in addition to all the things we've been talking about I think Security's a linchpin here now you guys are executing on security you got a big portfolio and you've seen a lot of M&A and a lot of companies now trying to get in and it's gonna be interesting to see how that plays out but that's going to be a key because organizations are going to start there from a strategy standpoint and then build out yeah absolutely if you follow the DevOps methodology its security gets baked in along the way so that you're not having to sit on after do anything Custis give you the final word I was just as follow-up with regard what what Mark was saying there's so many there's what's happening out there is this just democracy around standards which is driven by communities and we will love that in fact cisco is involved in many open-source community projects but you asked about customers and and just right before you were asking about you know who's gonna be the winner there's so many use cases there's so much depth in terms of you know what customers want to do with on top of kubernetes you know take AI ml for example something that we have we have some some offering the services around there's the customer that wants to do AML there their containers that their infrastructure will be so much different to someone else's doing something just hosting yeah and there's always gonna be a SAS provider that is niche servicing some oil and gas company you know which means that the company of that industry will go and follow that instead of just going to a public law provider that is more organized if there's a does that make sense yeah yeah this there's relationships that exist the archer is gonna get blown away that add value today and they're not gonna just throw them out so exactly right well thank you so much for helping us understand the updates where your customers are driving super exciting space look forward to keeping an eye on it thank you thank you so much all right there's still lots more coming here from Cisco live 20/20 in Barcelona people are standing watching all the developer events lots of going on the floor and we still have more so thank you for watching the cute [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back over 17,000 in attendance here for Cisco live 2020 in Barcelona ops to Minh and my co-host is Dave Volante and to help us to dig into of course one of the most important topic of the day of course that security we're thrilled to have back a distinguished engineer Francisco one of our cube alumni TK Kia Nene TK thanks so much for joining us ideal man good good all right so TK it's 2020 it's a new decade we know the bad actors are still out there they're there the the question always is you know it used to be you know how do you keep ahead of them then I've here Dave say many times well you know it's not you know when it's it's not if it's when you know you probably already have been okay you know compromised before so it gives latest so you know what you're seeing out there what you're talking to customers about in this important space yeah it's uh it's kind of an innovation spiral you know we we innovate we make it harder for them and then they innovate they make it harder for us right and round and round we go that's been going on for for many years I think I think the most significant changes that have happened recently have to deal with not essentially their objectives but how they go about their objectives and Defenders topologies have changed greatly instead of just your standard enterprise you now have you know hybrid multi cloud and all these new technologies so while while all that innovation happens you know they get a little clever and they find weaknesses and round and round we go so we talked a lot about the sort of changing profile of the the threat actors going from hacktivists took criminals now is a huge business and nation-states even what's that profile look like today and how has that changed over the last decade or so you know that's pretty much stayed the same bad guys are bad guys at some point in time you know just how how they go about their business their techniques they're having to like I said innovate around you know we make it harder for them they you know on Monday we're safe on Tuesday we're not you know and then on Wednesday it switches again so so it talked about kind of this multi-cloud environment when we talk to customers it's like well I want the developer to be able to build their application and not really have to think too much underneath it that that has to have some unique challenges we know security we knew long ago well I just go to the cloud it doesn't mean they take care of it some things are there some things they're gonna remind you now you need to make sure you set certain things otherwise you could be there but how do we make sure that Security's baked in everywhere and is up as a practice that everybody's doing well I mean again some of the practices hold true no matter what the environment I think the big thing was cognitive is in back in the day when when you looked at an old legacy data center you were part sort of administrator in your part detective and most people don't even know what's running on there that's not true in cloud native environments some some llamó file some some declaration it's it's just exactly what productions should look like right and then the machines instantiate production so you're doing things that machine scale forces the human scale people to be explicit and and for me I mean that's that's a breath of fresh air because once you're explicit then you take the mystery out of what you're protecting how about in terms of how you detect threats right phishing for credentials has become a huge deal but not just you know kicking down the door or smashing a window using your your own credentials to get inside of your network so how is that affected the way in which you detect yeah it's it's a big deal you know a lot of a lot of great technology has a dual use and what I mean by that is network cryptology you know that that whole crypto on the network has made us safer for us to compute over insecure networks and unfortunately it works just as well for the bad guys so you know all of their malicious activity is now private to so it you know for us we just have to invent new ways of detecting direct inspection for instance I think it's a thing of the past I mean we just can't depend on it anymore we have to have tools of inference and not only that but it's it's gave rise in a lot of innovation on behavioral science and as you say you know it's it's not that the attacker is breaking into your network anymore they're logging in ok what do you do then right Alice Alice's account it's not gonna set off the triggers so you have to say you know when did Alice start to behave differently you know she's working in accounting why is she playing around with the source code repository that's that's a different thing right yes automation is such a big trend you know how do we make sure that automation doesn't leave us more vulnerable that's rarity because we need to be able automate we've gone beyond human scale for most of these configurations that's exactly right and and how do how do we I always say just with security automation in particular just because you can automate something doesn't mean you should and you really have to go back and have practices you know you could argue that that this thing is just a you know machine scale automation you could do math on a legal pad or you can use a computer to do it right what so apply that to production if you mechanized something like order entry or whatever you're you're you're automating part of your business use threat modeling you use the standard threaten modeling like you would your code the network is code now right and the storage is code and everything is code so you know just automate your testing do your threat modeling do all that stuff please do not automate for your attacker matrix is here I want to go back to the Alice problem because you're talking about before you have to use inference so Alice's is in the network and you're observing her moves every day and then okay something anomalous occurs maybe she's doing something that normally she wouldn't do so you've got to have her profile in her actions sort of observed documented stored the data has got to be there and at the same time you want to make sure it's always that balance of putting handcuffs on people you know versus allowing them to do their job and be productive at the same time as well you don't want to let the bad guys know that you know that alice is doing something that she didn't be doing is actually not Alice so all that complexity how are you dealing with it and what's the data model look like doing it machines help let's say that machines can help us you know you and I we have only so many sense organs and the cognitive brain can only store so many so much state machines really help us extend that and so you know looking at not three dimensions of change but 7000 dimensions have changed right something in the machine is going to say there's an outlier here that's interesting and you can get another machine to say that's that's interesting maybe I should focus on that and you build these analytical pipelines so that at the end of it you know they may argue with each other all the way to the end but at the end you have a very high fidelity indicator that might be at the protocol level it might be at the behavioral level it might be seven days back or thirty days back all these temporal and spatial dimensions it's really cheap to do it with a machine yeah and if we could stay on that for a second so it try to understand I know that's a high-level example but is it best practice to have the Machine take action or is it is it an augmentation and I know it depends on the use case but but how is that sort of playing out again you have to do all of this safely okay a lot of things that machines do don't return back to human scale stuff that returns back to human scale that humans understand that is as useful so for instance if machines you know find out all these types of in assertions even in medical you know right now if if you've got so much telemetry going into the medical field see the machine tells you you have three weeks to live I mean you better explain what the heck you know how you came about that assertion it's the same with security you know if I'm gonna say look we're gonna quarantine your machine or we're gonna readjust machine it's not I'm not like picking movies for you or the next song you might listen to this is high stakes and so when you do things like that your analytics needs to have what is called entailment you have to explain what it is how you got to that assertion that's become incredibly important in how we measure our effectiveness in in doing analytics that's interesting because because you're using a lot of machine intelligence to do this and in a lot of AI is blackbox you're saying you cannot endure that blackbox problem in security yeah that black boxes is is very dangerous you know I you know personally I feel that you know things that should be open sourced this type of technology it's so advanced that the developer needs to understand that the tester needs to understand that certainly the customer needs to understand it you need to publish papers and be very very transparent with this domain because if it is in fact you know black box and it's given the authority to automate something like you know shut down the power or do things like that that's when things really start to get dangerous so good TK what wondered you know give us the latest on stealthWatch there you know Cisco's positioning when it when it comes to everything we've been talking about here you know stealthWatch again is it's been in market for quite some time it's actually been in market since 2001 and when I when I look back and see how much has changed you know how we've had to keep up with the market and again it's not just the algorithms rewrite for detection it's the environments have changed right but when did when did multi-cloud happen so so operating again cusp it's not that stealthWatch wants to go their customers are going there and they want the stealthWatch function across their digital business and so you know we've had to make advancements on the changing topology we've had to make advancements because of things like dark data you know the the network's opaque now right we have to have a lot of inference so we've just you know kept up and stayed ahead of it you know we've been spending a lot of time talking to developer communities and there's a lot of open-source tooling out there that that's helping enable developers specifically in security space you were talking about open-source earlier how does what you've been doing the self watch intersect with that yeah that's always interesting too because there's been sort of a shift in let's call them the cool kids right the cool kids they want everything is code right so it's not about what's on glass or you know a single pane of glass anymore it's it's what stealth watches code right what's your router as code look at dev net right yeah yeah I mean definite is basically Cisco as code and it's beautiful because that is infrastructure as code I mean that is the future and so all the products not just stealthWatch have beautiful api's and that's that's really exciting I've been saying for a while now it's do you I think you agree is that that is a big differentiator for Cisco I think you you're one of the few if not the only large established player and the enterprise that has figured out that sort of infrastructure is code play others have tried and are sort of getting there but you know start/stop you use a term that really cool is like living off the land you know bear bear grylls like the guy who lives down so bad so and and and threat actors are doing that now they're using your own installed software and tooling to hack you and and steal from you how were you dealing with that problem yeah it's a tough one and like I said you know much respect the the adversary is talented and they're patient they're well funded okay that's that's where it starts and so you know why why bring why bring an interpreter to a host when there's already one there right why right all this complicated software distribution when I can just use yours and so that's that's where the the play the game starts and and the most advanced threats aren't leaving footprints because the footprints are already there you know they'll get on a machine and behaviorally they'll check the cache to see what's hot and what's hot in the cache means that behaviorally it's a path they can go they're not cutting a new trail most of the time right so living off the land is not only the tools that they're using the automation your automation they're using against you but it's also behavioral and so that that makes it you know it makes it harder it's it impossible no can we make it harder for them yes so yeah no I'm having fun and I've been doing this for over twenty five years every week it's something new well it's a hard problem you're attacking and you know Robert Herjavec who came on the cube sort of opened my eyes and you think about what are we securing we're securing everything I mean a critical infrastructure were essentially exerted securing the entire global economy and he said something that really struck me it's an 86 trillion dollar economy we spend point zero one four percent on securing that economy and it's nothing now of course he's an entrepreneur and he's pimping for his is his business but it's true we are barely scratching the surface of this problem yeah I'm and it's changing I mean it's changing it could it be better yes it is changing his board awareness you know twenty years ago then right me to a dinner party they you know what does your husband do I'd say you know cyber security or something they'd roll their eyes and change the subject now they asked me the same question so oh you know my computer's running really slow right these are not this is everyone I'm worried about a life hack yeah how do I protect myself or what about these coming off the bank I mean that's those guys a dinner table cover every party so now now you know I just make something up I don't do cybersecurity I just you know a tort or a jipner's you've been to this business forever I can't remember have I ever asked you the superhero question what is that your favorite superhero that's a tough one there's all the security guys I know they like it's always dreamed about saving the world [Laughter] you're my superhero man I love what you do I think you've a great asset for Cisco and Cisco's customers really thanks TK give us a final word if people want to you know find out more about about what Cisco's doing read more of what you're working on but what's some of the best resource I have to go do you know just drop by the web pages I mean everything's published out that like I said even even for the super nerdy you know we published all our our laurs security analytics papers I think we're over 50 papers published in the last 12 years TK thank you so much always a pleasure to catch alright yeah and a travels thank you so much for de Villante I'm Stu Mittleman John furrier is also in the house we will be back with lots more coverage here from Cisco live 20/20 in Barcelona thanks for watching the keys [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020s brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners hello and welcome back to the cubes live coverage it's our fourth day of four days of coverage here in Barcelona Spain for Cisco live 2020 I'm John Faria my co-host to many men to great guests here in the dev net studio where the cube is sitting all week long been packed with action mindy Whaley senior director developer experiences but dev net and partner a senior director welcome back to this cube good to see you guys glad to be here so we've had a lot of history with you guys what from day one yes watching def net from an idea of hey we should develop earthing you also have definite create yes separate more developer focused definite is Cisco's developer environment we've been here from the beginning what a progression congratulations on the success thank you thank you so much it's great to be here in Barcelona with everybody here you know learning in the workshops and we just love these times to connect with our community at Cisco live and it definitely ate what you mentioned which is coming up in March so it's right around the corner def net zone which we're in it's been really robust spins it's been the top of the show every year and it gets bigger and the sessions are packed because people are learning developers new developers as well as Cisco engineers who were certified coming in getting new skills as the modern cloud hybrid environments are new skills is a technology shift yeah exactly and what we have in the definite zone are different ways that the engineers and developers can engage with that technology shift so we have demos around IOT and security and showing how you know to prevent threats from attacking the Industrial routers and things like that we have coding workshops from you know beginning intro to Python intro to get all the way up through advanced like kubernetes topics and things like that so people can really dive in with what they're looking for and this year we're really excited because we have the new definite certifications with those exams coming out right around the corner in February so a lot of people are here saying I'm ready to skill up for those exams I'm starting to dive into this topic well Susie we was on she's the chief of deaf net among other things and she said there's gonna be a definite 500 the first 500 certifications of deaf net are gonna be kind of like the Hall of Fame or you know the inaugural or founder certifications so can you explain what this it means it's not a definite certification badge it's a series of write different sir can you deeper in then yeah just like we have our you know existing network certifications which are so respected and loved around the world people get CCIE tattoos and things just like there's an associate and professional and expert level on the networking truck there's now a definite associate a definite professional and coming soon definite expert and then there's also specialist badges which help you add specific skills like data center automation IOT WebEx so it's a whole new set of certifications that are more focused on the software so there are about 80 80 % software skills 20 percent knowledge of networking and then how you really connect up and down the stock so these are new certifications not replacing anything all the same stuff they're new they're part of the same program they have the same rigor the same kind of tests they actually have ways to enter weave with the existing networking certifications because we want people to do both skill paths right to build this new IT team of the future and so it's a completely new set of exams the exams are gonna be available to take February 24th and you can start signing up now so with the definite 500 you know that's gonna be a special recognition for the first 500 people who get dead note certifications it'll be a lifetime achievement they'll always be in the definite 500 right and I've had people coming up and telling me you know I'm signed up for the first day I'm taking my exams on the first day I'm trying to get into them you and I only always want to be on the lift so I think we might be on them and what's really great is with the certifications we've heard from people in the zone that they've been coming and taking classes and learning these skills but they didn't have a specific way to map that to their career path to get rewarded at work you know to have that sort of progression and so with the certifications they really will have that and it's also really important for our partners and par is doing a lot of work with certifications and partners yeah definitely that would love to hear a little bit we've interviewed on the cube over the years some of the definite partners from a technology standpoint of course the the channels ecosystem hugely important to Cisco's business gives the update as to you know definite partnering as well as what will these certifications mean to both the technology and go to market partners yeah the wonderful thing about this is it really demonstrates Cisco's embracement of software and making sure that we're providing that common language for software developers and networkers to bring the two together and what we've found is that our partners are at different levels of maturity along that progression of program ability and this new definite specialization which is anchored in the individuals that are now certified at that partner allow them to demonstrate from a go-to-market standpoint from a recognition standpoint that as a practice they have these skills and look at the end of the day it's all about delivering what our customers need and our customers are asking us for significant help in automation digital transformation they're trying to drive new business outcomes and this this will provide that recognition on on who to partner with in the market it's so important I remember when Cisco helped a lot of the partner ecosystem build data center practices went from the silos and now embracing you've got the hardware the software we're talking multi cloud it's the practice that is needed today going forward to help customers with where they're going it really is and and another benefit that we're finding and talking to our partners is we're packaging this up and rolling it out is not only will it help them from a recognition standpoint from a practice standpoint and from a competitive differentiation standpoint but it'll also help them attract challenge I mean it's no secret there is a talent shortage right now if you talk to any CEO that's top of mind and how these partners are able to attract these new skills and attract smart people smart people like working on smart things right and so this has really been a big traction point for them as well it's also giving ways to really specifically train for new job roles so some of the ways that you can combine the new definite certifications with the network engineering certifications we've looked at it and said you know there's there's a role of Network automation developer that's a new role everyone we ask in one of our sessions who needs that person on their team so many customers partners raise their hands like we want the network Automation developer on our team and you can combine you know your CCNP Enterprise with a definite certification and build up the skills to be that Network automation developer certainly has been great buzz I got to get your guys thoughts because certainly it's for careers and you guys are betting on the the people and the people are betting on Cisco mm-hmm yes this is what's going on submit surety of Devin it almost it's like a pinch me moment for you guys because you continue to grow I got to ask you what are some of the cool things that you're showing here as you mature you still have the start here session which is intro to Python and other things pretty elementary and then there's more advanced things what are some of the new things that's going on yeah that you could share so some of the new things we've got going on and one of my favorites is the IOT insecurity demonstration there's a an industrial robot arm that's picking and placing things and you can see how it's connected to the network and then something goes wrong with that robot alarm and then you can actually show how you can use the software and security tools to see was there code trying to access you know something that that robot was it was using it's getting in the way of it working so you could detect threats and move forward on that we also have a whole automation journey that starts from modeling your network to testing to how you would deploy automation to a deep dive on telemetry and then ends with multi domain automation so really helping engineers like look at that whole progression that's been that's been really popular Park talked about the specialization which ones are more popular or entry-level which ones are people coming into getting certified first network engineering automation first or what's the yeah so we're so the program is going to roll out with three different levels one is a specialized level the second is an advanced level and then we'll look to that third level again they're anchored in the in the individual certs and so as we look for that entry level it's really all about automation right I mean some things you take for granted but you still need these new skills to be able to automate and scale and have repeatable scalable benefits from that this the second tier will be more cross-domain and that's where we're really thinking that an additional skill set is needed to deliver dashboard experience compliance experiences and then that next level again we'll anchor towards the expert level that's coming out but one thing I want to point out is in addition to just having the certified people on staff they also have to demonstrate that they have a practice around it so it's not just enough to say I've passed an exam as we work with them to roll out the practice and they earn the badge they're demonstrating that they have the full methodology in place so that it really there's a lot behind it that means we can't be in the 500 list then even if a 500 list I don't know that the cube would end up being specialized its advertising no seriously all fun it's all fun it's Cisco live in Europe is there a difference between European and USD seeing any differences in geographic talent you know in the first couple years we did it I think there was a bigger difference it felt like there were different topics that were very popular in the US slightly different in Europe last year and this year I feel like they have converged it's it's the same focus on DevOps automation security as a huge focus in both places and it also feels like the the interest and level of the people attending has also converged it's really similar congratulations been fun to watch the rise and success of Devon it continues to be strong how see in the hub here and the definite zone behind us pact sessions yes what's the biggest surprise for you guys in terms of things that you didn't expect or some of the success what's what's jumped out yeah I think you know one of the points that I want to make sure we also cover and it has been an added benefit we're hoping it would happen we just didn't realize it would happen this soon we're attracting new companies new partners so the specialization won't just be available for our traditional bars this is also available for our non resale and we are finding different companies accessing definite resources and learning these skills so that's been a really great benefit of Deb net overall definitely my favorite surprises are when I show up at the community events and I hear from someone I met last year what the what they went back and did and the change that they drove and they come in their company and I think we're seeing those across the board of people who start a grassroots movement take back some new ideas really create change and then they come back and we get to hear about that from them those are my favorite surprises and I tell you we've known for years how important the developer is but I think the timing on this has been perfect because it is no longer just oh the developer has some tools that they like in the corner the developer connected to the business and driving things forward exactly so perfect timing congratulations on this certification their thing that's been great is that our at Cisco itself we now have API is across the whole portfolio and up and down the stock so that's been a wonderful thing to see come together because it opens up possibilities for all these developers so Cisco's API first company we are building it guys everywhere we can and and that the community is is taking them and finding creative things to build it's been fun to watch you guys change Cisco but also impact customers has been great to watch far many thanks for coming up yeah games live coverage here in Barcelona for Cisco live 20/20 I'm John Ford Dave Dave Alon face to many men we right back with more after this short break [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners hello and welcome back to the cubes live coverage here at Cisco live 20/20 and partial into Spain I'm John first evening men cube coverage we've got a lot of stuff going on with Cisco multi-cloud and cloud technologies of clarification of Cisco's happening in real time is happening right now cloud is here here to stay we got two great guests to unpack what's going on in cloud native and networking and applications as the modern infrastructure and software evolves we got eugene kim global product marketing and compute storage at cisco global part of marketing manager and fabio corey senior director cloud solutions marketing guys great comeback great thanks for coming back appreciate it thanks very much great to see a lot of guys so probably we've had multiple conversations and usually even out from the sales force given kind of the that the discussion and the motivation cloud is big it's here it's here to stay it's changing Cisco API first we hear and all the products it's changing everything what's the story now what's going on I would say you know the reason why we're so excited about the launch here in Barcelona it's because this time it's all about the application experience I mean the last two years we've been announcing some really exciting stuff in the cloud space right think about all the announcements with the AWS the Google's the Azure so the world but this time it really boils down to making sure that is incredibly hyper distributed world well there is an application explosion ultimately we will help for the right operations tools and infrastructure management tools to ensure that the right application experience will be guaranteed for the end customer and that's incredibly important because at the end what really really matters is that you will ensure the best possible digital experience to your customer otherwise ultimately nothing is gonna work and of course you're going to lose your brand and your customers one of the main stories that we're covering is the transformation of the industry also Cisco and one of the highlights to me was the opening keynote you had app dynamics first not networking normally it's like what's under the hood the routers and the gear no it was about the applications this is the story we're seeing it's kind of a quiet unveiling it's not yet a launch but it's evolving very quickly can you share what's going on behind this all this absolutely it's exactly along the lines of what I was saying a second ago in the end that the reason why we're driving the announcement if you want from the application experience side of the house is because without dynamics we already have a very very powerful application performance measurement tool which it's evolving extremely rapidly first of all after Amex can correlate not just the application performance to some technology kpi's but to true actual business KPIs so AB dynamics can give you for instance the real-time visibility of say a marketing funnel conversion rates transactions that you're having in your in your business operation now we're introducing an incredibly powerful new capability that takes the bar to a whole new level and that's the dynamics experience journey Maps what are those it's actually the ability of focusing not so much on front-ends and backends and databases performances but really focusing on what the user is seeing in front of his or her screen and so what really matters is capturing the journey that a given user of your application is is being and understanding whether the experience is the one that you want to deliver oh you have like a sudden drop of somewhere and you know why that is important because in the end we've been talking about is it a problem of the application performance user performance well it could be a badly designed page how do you know and so this is a very precious information is that were giving to application developers not just to the IT ops guys that is incredibly precious to get this in so you just brought up that journey so that's part of the news so just break down real quick one minute yeah what the news is yeah so we have three components the first one as you as you correctly pointed out is really introduction the application journey Maps right the experience journey Maps that's very very important the second is we are actually integrating after am it's with the inter-site action inter-site optimization manager the workload team is a workload promisor and so because there is a change of data between the two now you are in a position to immediately understand whether you have an application problem we have a workload problem or infrastructure problem which is ultimate what you really need to do as quickly as you can and thirdly we have introduced a new version of our hyper flex platform which is hyper-converged flat G flat for Cisco with a fully containerized version we tax free if you want as well there is a great platform for containerized application of parameter so you teen when I've been talking to customers last few years when they go through their transformational journey there's the modernization they need to do the patterns I've seen most successful is first you modernize the platform often HCI is you know and often for that it really simplifies the environment you know reduces the silos and has more of that operational model that looks closer to what the cloud experience is and then if I've got a good platform then I can modernize the applications on top of it but often those two have been a little bit disconnected it feels like the announcements now that they are coming together what are you seeing what are you hearing how is your solution set solving this issue yeah exactly I mean as we've been talking to our customers love them are going through different application modernisations and kubernetes and containers is extremely important to them and to build a container cloud on Prem is extremely one of their needs and so there's three distinctive requirements that they've kind of talked to us about a lot of it has to be able to it's got to be very simple very turnkey and a fully integrated ready to turn on the other one is something that's very agile right very DevOps friendly and the third being a very economic container cloud on Prem as far we mentioned high flex application platform takes our hyper-converged system and builds on top of it a integrated kubernetes platform to deliver a container as a service type capability and it provides a full stack fully supported element platform for our customers and the one of the best great aspects of is that's all managed from inside from the physical infrastructure to the hyper-converged layer to all the way to the container management so it's very exciting to have that full stack management and insight as well yeah it's great to you know John and I have been following this kubernetes wave you know since the early early days Fabio mentioned integrations with the Amazons and Google's the world because you know a few years ago you talked to customers and they're like oh well I'm just gonna build my own urbanity right back nobody ever said that is easy now just delivering at his service seems to be the way most people wanted so if I'm doing it on Amazon or Google they've got their manage service that I could do that or that they're through partners they're working with so explain what you're doing to make it simpler in the data center environment because I'm tram absolutely is a piece of that hybrid equation the customers need yes so essentially from the customer experience perspective as I mentioned it's very fairly turnkey right from the hyper flicks application platform we're taking our hyper grew software we're integrating a application virtualization layer on top of it Linux KVM based and then on top of that we're integrating the kubernetes stack on top as well and so in essence right it's a fully curated kubernetes stack right it has all the different elements from the networking from the storage elements and and providing that in a very turnkey way and as I mentioned the inner site management is really providing that simplicity that customers need for that management ok Fabio this the previous announcement you've made with the public clouds yeah this just ties into those hybrid environments that's exactly you know a few years ago people like oh is there gonna be a distribution that wins in kubernetes we don't think that's the answer but still I can't just move between kubernetes you know seamlessly yet but this is moving towards that direction so a lot of customers want to have a very simple implementation at the same time they want of course a multi cloud approach and I really care about you know marking the difference between you know multi-cloud hybrid cloud there's been a lot of confusion but if you think about it multi cloud is really rooted into the business need of harnessing innovation from whatever it comes from you know the different clouds PV different things and you know what they do today tomorrow it could even change so people want option maladie so they want a very simple implementation that's integrated with public cloud providers that simplifies their life in terms of networking security and application of workload management and we've been executing towards that goal to fundamentally simplify the operations of these pretty complex kind of hybrid environments I want you to nail that operations on ibrid that's where multi cloud comes in absolutely just a connection point absolutely you're not a shitty mice no isn't a shit so in order to fulfill your business like your I know business needs you then you have a hybrid problem and you want to really kind of have a consistent production rate environment between fins on Prem that you own and control versus things that you use and you want to control better now of course there are different school of thoughts but most of the customers who are speaking with really want to expand their governance and technology model right to the cloud as opposed to absorb in different ways of doing things from each and every clock I want to unpack a little bit of what you said earlier about the knowing where the problem is because a lot of times it's a point the finger at the other first and where's it's the application problem isn't a problem so I want to get into that but first I want to understand the hyper flex application platform Eugene if you could just share the main problem that you guys saw what did some of the pain points that customers had what problems does the AP solve yeah as I mentioned it's really the platform for our customers to modernize their applications on right and it addresses those things that they're looking for as far as the economics right really the ability to provide a full stack container experience without having to you know but you know bringing any third party hypervisor licenses as well as support cost so that's fully integrated there you have your integrated hyper-converged storage capability you have the cloud-based management and that's really developing you providing that developer DevOps simplicity from the data Julie that they're looking for internally as well as for their product production environments and then the other aspect is its simplicity to be able to manage all this right in the entire lifecycle management as well so it's the operational side of the whole yeah uncovers Papio on the application side where the problem is because this is where I'm a little bit skeptical you know normally rightfully so but I can see in a problem where it's like whose fault is it gasification is problem or the network I mean it runs into more serious workloads the banking app that's having trouble how do you know where it what the problem is and how do you solve that problem what what's going on for that specific issue absolutely and you know the name of the game here is breaking down this operational side right and I love what our app dynamics VP GM Danny winoker said you know it has this terminology beast DevOps which you know may sound like an interesting acrobatics but it's absolutely true the business has to be part of this operational kind of innovation because as you said you know developer edges you know drops their containers and their code to the IET ops team but you don't really know whether the problem a certain point is gonna be in the code or in how the application is actually deployed or maybe a server that doesn't have enough CPU so in the end it boils down to one very important thing you have to have visibility inside and take action and every layer of the stack I mean instrumentation absolutely there are players that only do it in their software overlay domain the problem is very often these kind of players assume that underneath links are fine and very often they're not so in the end this visibility inside inaction is the loop that everybody is going after these days to really get to the next if you want generational operation where you gotta have a constant feedback loop and making it more faster and faster because in the end you can only win in the marketplace right regardless of your IT ops if you're faster than your competitor well still still was questioning the GM of AppDynamics running observability and he's like no it's not to feature it's everywhere so he his comment was yeah but serve abilities don't really talk about it because it's big din do you agree with that absolutely it has to be at every layer of the stack and only if you have visibility inside an action through the entire stack from the software all the way to the infrastructure level that you can solve the problem otherwise the finger-pointing quote-unquote will continue and you will not be able to gain the speed that you need okay so the question on my mind I want to get both of you guys can weigh in on this is that you look at Cisco as a company you got a lot going on I mean a guy's huge customer base core routers - no applications there's a lot going on a lot of a lot of complexity you got IOT security Ramirez talked about that you got the WebEx rooms got totally popular it's kind of got a lot of glam to it having the WebEx kind of you know I guess what virtual presence was yeah telepresence kind of model and then you get cloud is there a mind share within the company around how cloud is baked into everything because you can't do IOT edge without having some sort of cloud operational things so there's stuff you're talking about is not just a division it's kind of gonna it's kind of threads everywhere across Cisco what's the what's the mind share right now within the Cisco teams and also customers around clarification well I would say it's it's a couple of dimension the first one is the cloud is one of the critical domains of this multi domain architecture that of course is the cornerstone of Cisco's technology strategy right if you think about it it's all about connecting users to applications wherever they are and not just the user the applications themselves like if you look at the latest stats from IDC 58% of workloads is heading to the public cloud and to the edge it's like the data center is literally exploding in many different directions so you have this highly distributed kind of fabric guess what sits in between all these applications and microservices is a secure network and that's exactly what we're executing upon now that's the first kind of consideration the second is if you look at the other silver line most of the Cisco technology innovation is also going a direction of absorbing cloud as a simplified way of managing all the components or the infrastructure you look at the IP flex ap is actually managed by inter site which is a SAS kind of component this journey started a long time ago with Cisco Meraki and then of course we have SAS properties like WebEx everything else is kind of absolutely migrants reporter we've been reporting eugen that from years ago we saw the movement where api's are starting to come in when you go back five years ago not a lot of the gear and stuff at Cisco had api's now you got api's building into all the new products that's right you see the software shift with you know you know intent-based networking to AppDynamics it's interesting it's you're seeing kind of this agile mindset this is some of you and I talk about all the time but agile now is the new model is it ready for customers I mean the normal Enterprise is still got the infrastructure and application it's separated okay how do I bring it together what are you guys seeing the customer base what's going on with with not that not the early adopters heavy-duty hardcore pioneers out there but you know the the general mainstream enterprise are they there yet have they had that moment of awakening yeah I mean I think they they are there because fundamentally it's all about that ensuring that application experience and you can only ensure that application experience right by having your application teams and your structure teams work together and that's what's exciting you mentioned the API is and what we've done there with AppDynamics integrating with inter-site workload optimizer as Fabio mentioned it's all about visibility inside action and what app dynamics is provides providing that business and end-user application performance experience visibility inner sites giving you know visibility on the underlining workload and the resources whether it's on Prem in your you know drive data center environment or in different type of cloud providers so you get that full stack visibility right from the application all the way down to the bottom and then inner side local optimizer is then also optimizing the resources to proactively ensure that application experience so before you know if we talk about someone at a checkout and they're about to have abandonment because the functions not working we're able to proactively prevent that and take a look at all that so you know in the end I think it's all about ensuring that application experience and what we're providing with app dynamics is for the application team is kind of that horizontal visibility of how that application is performing and at the same time if there's an issue the infrastructure team could see exactly within the workload topology where the issue is and insert' aeneas lee whether it be manual intervention or even automatically there's or a ops capability go ahead and provide that action so the action could be you know scaling out the VMS it's on-prem or looking at a new different type of ec2 template in the cloud that's what's very exciting about this it's really the application experience is now driving and optimizing infrastructure in real time and let me flip your question like do you even have a choice John when you think about in the next two years 50% more applications if you're a large enterprise you have 5 to 7,000 apps you have another to 3,000 applications just coming into into the the frame and then 50% of the existing ones that are gonna be refactor lifted and shifted or replace or retired by SAS application it's just like it's tsunami that's that's coming on you and oh by the way because of again the micro service is kind of affect the number of dependencies between all these applications is growing incredibly rapidly like last year we were eight average interdependencies for applications now we are 20 so imaging imaging what happens as as you are literally flooded with the way the scanner really you have to ensure that your application infrastructure fundamentally will get tied up as quickly as you can still and I have been toilet for at least five years now if not longer the networking has been the key kind of last changeover - clarification and I would agree with you guys I think I've asked the question because I wanted to get your perspective but think about it it's 13 years since the iPhone so mobile has shown people that a mobile app can change business but now if you look at the pressure the network's bringing the pressure on the network or the pressure for the network to be better than programmable is the rise of video and data I mean so you got mobile check now you've got video I mean more people doing video now than ever before videos of consumer oil as streaming you got data these two things absolutely forced yeah the customers to deal with it but what really tipped the the balance John is is actually the SAS effect is the cloud effect because as you know it's in IT sort of inflection points nothing is linear right so once you reach a certain critical mass of cloud apps and we're absolutely there already all of a sudden you're traffic pattern on your network changes dramatically so why in the world are you continuing kind of you know concentrating all of your traffic in your data center and then going to the internet you have to absolutely open the floodgates at the branch level as close to the users as possible and that implies a radical change I would even add to that and I think you guys are right on where you guys are going it may be hard to kind of tease out with all the complexity with Cisco but in the keynote the business model shifts come from SAS so you got all this technical stuff going on now you have this Asif ocation or cloud that's changes the business models so new entrants can come in and existing players can get better so I think that whole business model conversation yeah never was discussed at Cisco live before yeah in depth as well hey run your business connect your hubs campus move packets around that was applications in business model yeah but also the fact that there is increasing number of software capabilities and so fundamental you want to simplify the life of your customers through subscription models that help the customer by now using what they really need right at any given point in time all the way to having enterprise agreements I also think that's about delivering these application experiences for your business small different type experience that's really what's differentiating you from your different competitors right and so I think that's a different type of shift as well well you guys are good got some good angle on this cloud I love it I got to ask you the question what can we expect next from Cisco more progression along clarification what's next well I would say we've been incredibly consistent I believe in the last few years in executing on our cloud strategy which again is centered around helping customers really gluon this mix set of data centers and clouds to make it work as one write as much as possible and so what we really deliver is networking security and application of performance management and we're integrating there's more and more on the two sides of the equation right the the designer side and the powerful outside and more more integrating in between all of these layers again to fundamentally give you this operational capability to get faster and faster we'll continue doing so and you set up before we came on camera that you were talking to the sales teams what are they what's their vibe with the sales team they get excited by this what's that oh yeah feedback oh yeah absolutely from the inner side were claw optimizer and they have dynamics that's very exciting for them especially the conversations they're having with their customers really from that application experience and proactively insuring it and on the hyper flex application platform side this is extremely exciting with providing a container cloud to our customers and you know what's coming down is more and more capabilities for our customers to modernize their applications on hyper flex you guys are riding some pretty big waves here at Cisco I get a cloud way to get the IOT Security wave it's pretty exciting pretty big stuff thanks for coming in thanks for sharing the insights Fabio I appreciate it thank you for having us your coverage here in Barcelona I'm John Force dude Minutemen be back with more coverage fourth day of four days of cube coverage we right back after this short break [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] why Trump Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back to Barcelona everybody we're here at Cisco live and you're watching the cube the leader in live tech coverage we got to the events and extract the signal from the noise this is day one really we started a zero yesterday Eric Hertzog is here he's the CMO and vice president of storage channels probably been on the cube more than [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back everyone's two cubes live coverage day four of four days of wall-to-wall action here in Barcelona Spain Francisco live 2020 I'm John Ferrier with mykos Dave Volante with a very special guest here to wrap up Cisco live the president of Europe Middle East Africa and Russia Francisco Wendy Mars cube alumni great to see you thanks for coming on to kind of put a bookend to the show here thanks for joining us right there it's absolutely great to be here thank you so what a transformation as Cisco's business model of continues to evolve we've been saying brick by brick we still think is a big move coming I think there's more action I can sense the walls talking to us like let's just go live in the US and more technical announcements in the next 24 months you can see you can see where it's going it's cloud its apps yeah its policy based program ability it's really a whole nother business model shift for you and your customers the technology shift and the business model shift so I want to get your perspective of this year opening key no you let it off talking about the philosophy of the business model but also the first presenter was not a networking guy it was an application person yeah app dynamics yep this is a shift what's going on with Cisco what's happening what's the story well you know if you look for all of the work that we're doing is but is really driven by what we see from requirements from our customers the change that's happening in the market and it is all around you know if you think digital transformation is the driver organizations now are incredibly interested in how do they capture that opportunity how do they use technology to help them but you know if you look at it really there's the three items that are so important it's the business model evolution it's actually the business operations for for organisations plus their people there are people in the communities within that those three things working together and if you look at it with you know it's so exciting with application dynamics there because if you look for us within Cisco that linkage of the application layer through into the infrastructure into the network and bringing that linkage together is the most powerful thing because that's the insight and the value our customers are looking for you know we've been talking about the in the innovation sandwich you know you got you know date in the middle and you got technology and applications underneath that's kind of what's going on here but you I'm glad you brought up the year the part about business model business operations and people in communities because during your keno you had a slide that laid out three kind of pillars yes people in communities business model and business operations there was no 800 series in there there was no product discussions this is fundamentally the big shift that business models are changing I tweeted provocatively the killer app and digital the business model because you think about it the applications are the business and what's running under the covers is the technology but it's all shifting and changing so every single vertical every single business is impacted by this it's not like a certain secular thing in the industry this is a real change can you describe how those three things are operating with that constitute think if you look from you know so thinking through those three areas if you look at the actual business model itself our business models as organizations are fundamentally changing and they're changing towards as consumers we are all much more specific about what we want we have incredible choice in the market we are more informed than ever before but also we are interested in the values of the organizations that were getting the capability from as well as the products and the services that naturally we're looking to gain so if you look in that business model itself this is about you know organizations making sure they stay ahead from a competitive standpoint about the innovation of portfolio that they're able to bring but also that they have a strong strong focus around the experience that their customer gains from an application a touch standpoint that all comes through those different channels which is at the end of the day the application then if you look as to how do you deliver that capability through the systems the tools and the processes as we all evolve our businesses you have to change the dynamic within your organization to cope with that and then of course in driving any transformation the critical success factor is your people and your culture you need your teams with you the way teams operate now is incredibly different it's no longer command and control its agile capability coming together you need that to deliver on any transformation never never mind let it be smooth you know in the execution there so it's all three together what I like about that model and I have to say we this is you know ten years to do in the cube you you see that marketing in the vendor community often leads what actually happens not surprising as we entered the last decade it was a lot of talk about cloud well it kind of was a good predictor we heard a lot about digital transformations a lot of people roll their eyes and think it's a buzzword but we really are I feel like an exiting this cloud era into the digital era it feels real and there are companies that you know get it and are leaning in there are others that maybe you're complacent I'm wondering what you're seeing in in Europe just in terms of everybody talks digital yeah be CEO wants to get it right but there is complacency there when it's a services say well I'm doing pretty well not on my watch others say hey we want to be the disruptors and not get disrupted what are you seeing in the region in terms of that sentiment I would say across the region you know there will always be verticals and industries that are slightly more advanced than others but I would say that then the bulk of conversations that I'm engaged in independence of the industry or the country in which we're having that conversation in there is a acceptance of transfer digital transformation is here it is affecting my business i if I don't disrupt I myself will be disrupted and be challenged help me so I you know I'm not disputing the end state I need guidance and support to drive the transition and a risk mythic mitigated manner and they're looking for help in that and there's actually pressure in the boardroom now around a what are we doing within within organizations within that enterprise the service right of the public said to any type of style of company there's that pressure point in the boardroom of come on we need to move it speed now the other thing about your model is technology plays a role in contribute it's not the be-all end-all but plays a role in each of those the business model of business operations and developing and nurturing communities can you add more specifics what role do you see technology in terms of advancing those three spheres so I think you know if you look at it technology is fundamental to all of those spheres in regard to the innovation the differentiation technology can bring then the key challenges one of being able to reply us in a manner where you can really see differentiation of value within the business so in then the customers organization otherwise it's just technology for the sake of technology so we see very much a movement now to this conversation of talk about the use case the use cases the way by which that innovation can be used to deliver the value to the organization and also different ways by which a company will work look at the collaboration capability that we announced earlier this week of helping to bring to life that agility look at the app D discussion of helping to link the layer of the application into the infrastructure the network's to get to root cause identification quickly and to understand where you may have a problem before you thought it actually arises and causes downtime many many ways I think the agility message has always been a technical conversation a gel methodology technology software development no problem check that's ten years ago but business agility mmm it's moving from a buzzword to reality exactly that's what you're kind of getting in here and teams how teams operate how they work you know and being able to be quick efficient stand up stand down and operate in that way you know we were kind of thinking out loud on the cube and just riffing with Fabio gory on your team on Cisco's team about clarification with Eugene Kim around just just kind of real-time what was interesting is we're like okay it's been 13 years since the iPhone and so 13 years of mobile in your territory in Europe Middle East Africa mobilities been around before the iPhone so with in more advanced data privacy much more advanced in your region so you got you out you have a region that's pretty much I think the tell signs for what's going on in North America and around the world and so you think about that you say okay how is value created how the economics changing this is really the conversation about the business model is okay if the value activities are shifting and be more agile and the economics are changing with sass if someone's not on this bandwagon it's not an in-state discussion where it's done deal yeah it's but I think also there were some other conversation which which are very prevalent here is in in the region so around trust around privacy law understanding compliance you look at data where data resides portability of that data GDP are came from Europe you know and as ban is pushed out and those conversations will continue as we go over time and if I also look at you know the dialogue that you saw so you know within World Economic Forum around sustainability that is becoming a key discussion now within government here in Spain you know from a climate standpoint and many other areas as well Dave and I've been riffing around this whole where the innovation is coming from it's coming from Europe region not so much the u.s. I mean us discuss some crazy innovations but look at blockchain us is like don't touch it pretty progressive outside United States little bit dangerous to but that's where innovation is coming from and this is really the key that we're focused on I want to get your thoughts on how do you see it going next level the next level next-gen business model what's your what's your vision so I think there'll be lots of things if we look at things like with the introduction of artificial intelligence robotics capability 5g of course you know on the horizon we have Mobile World Congress here in Barcelona in a few weeks time and if you talked about with the iPhone the smartphone of course when 4G was introduced no one knew what the use case would that would be it was the smartphone which wasn't around at that time so with 5g in the capability there that will bring again yet more change to the business model for different organizations and the capability and what we can bring to market when we think about AI privacy data ownership becomes more important some of the things you were talking about before it's interesting what you're saying John and when the the GDP are set the standard and and you see in the u.s. there are stovepipes for that standard California is going to do one every state is going to have a different center that's going to slow things down that's going to slow down progress do you see sort of an extension of a GDP are like framework of being adopted across the region and that potentially you know accelerating some of these you know sticky issues and public policy issues that can actually move the market forward I think I think the will because I think there'll be more and more you know if you look at there's this terminology of data is the new oil what do you do with data how do you actually get value from that data and make intelligent business decisions around that so you know that's critical but yet if you look for all of ours we are extremely passionate about you know where is our data used again back to trust and privacy you need compliance you need regulation you know I think this is just the beginning of how we will see that evolve you know when do I get your thoughts does Dave and I have been riffing for 10 years around the death of storage long live storage and but data needs to be stored somewhere networking is the same kind of conversation just doesn't go away in fact there's more pressure now forget the smartphone that was 13 years ago before that mobility data and video now super important driver that's putting more pressure on you guys and so hey we're networking so it's kind of like Moore's law it's like more networking more networking so video and data are now big your thoughts on video and data video but if you look at the Internet of the future you know what so if you look for all of us now we are also demanding as individuals around capability and access to that and inter vetted the future the next phase we want even more so there'll be more and more - you know requirement for speed availability that reliability of service the way by which we engage and we communicate there's some fundamentals there so continuing to to grow which is which is so so exciting for us so you talk about digital transformation that's obviously in the mind of c-level executives I got to believe security is up there as a topic what other what's the conversation like in the corner office when you go visit your customers so I think that there's a huge excitement around the opportunity realizing the value of the of the opportunity you know if you look at top of mind conversations are around security around making sure that you can make tank maintain that fantastic customer experience because if you don't the custom will go elsewhere how do you do that how do you enrich at all times and also looking at markets adjacencies you know as you go in and you talk at senior levels within within organizations independent of the industry in which they're in there are a huge amount of commonalities that we see across those of consistent problems by which organizations are trying to solve and actually one of the big questions is what's the pace of change that I should operate at and when is it too fast and when is what am I too slow and trying to balance that is exciting but also a challenge for companies so you feel like sentiment is still strong even though we're 10 years into this this bull market you know you got Briggs it you get you know China tensions with the US u.s. elections but but generally you see Tennessee sentiment still pretty strong and demand so I would say that the the excitement around technology the opportunity that is there around technology in its broadest sense is greater than ever before and I think it's on all of us to be able to help organizations to understand how they can consume I see value from us but it's you know it's fantastic science it tastes trying to get some economic indicators but really the real thing I'm trying to get you is Minh set of the CEO the corner office right now is it is it we're gonna we're gonna grow short-term by cutting or do we do are we gonna be aggressive and go after this incremental opportunity and it's probably both you're seeing a lot of automation yeah and I think if you look fundamentally for organizations it's it's that the three things helped me to make money how me to save money keep me out of trouble you know so those are the pivots they all operate with and you know depending on where an organization is in its journey whether a start-up there you know in in the in the mid or the more mature and some of the different dynamics and the markets in which they operate in as well there's all different variables you know so it's it's it's mix Wendy thanks so much for spending the time to come on the cube really appreciate great keynote folks watching if you haven't seen the keynote opening sections that's a good section the business model I think it's really right on I think that's going to be a conversation it's going to continue thanks for sharing that before we look before we leave I want to just ask you a question around what you what's going on for you here at Barcelona as the show winds down you had all your activities take us in the day of the life of what you do customer meetings what were some of those conversations take us inside inside what what goes on for you here well I'd say it's been an amazing it's been an amazing few days so it's a combination of customer conversations around some of the themes we just talked about conversations with partners and there's investor companies that we invest in a Cisco that I've been spending some time with and also you know spending time with the teams as well the DEF net zone you know is amazing we have this afternoon the closing session where we've got a fantastic external guest who's coming in it's going to be really exciting as well and then of course the party tonight and we'll be announcing the next location which I'm not gonna reveal now later on today we kind of figured it out already because that's our job and there's the break news but we're not gonna break it for you you can have that hey thank you so much for coming on really appreciate Wendy Martin expecting the Europe Middle East Africa and Russia for Cisco she's got our hand on the pulse and the future is the business model that's what's going on fundamental radical change across the board in all areas this the cue bringing you all the action here in Barcelona thanks for watching [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music]

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the queue now here's your host Stu minimun hi I'm Stu minimun and this is a special cube conversation from our Boston area studio following up from the Cronus global cyber summit it happened recently down in Miami Beach Florida John Fourier was a host there you can always go to the cube net to get all of the content here happy to welcome to the program first I've got Pat Hurley who's the vice president and general manager of Americas for a Cronus and joining him as one of his partners Jason Nolan who's the vice president of business development at S Castle both you locally-based thank you so much for joining us great to be here thanks for having us - all right so Pat why don't we start with you we talked a little bit earlier with William tall about some of the announcements give us some of the things and that specifically might be it'd be important to to the partners like Jason well first of all was a fantastic event was our inaugural cyber summit we had great attendance from our partners and getting a lot of feedback about the content that was there actually Jason was one of our panel speakers we got a lot of very positive feedback there as well fantastic event for us the the food was even great so we enjoyed that it was on Miami Beach fantastic location so from our side we thought was a very successful event now the biggest challenge we will have is making even that much better next year yeah did you get the stone crab while you were down there Jason who is unbelievable huh yeah so you were out the show you got to sit on some panels you know you were feeling the energy it was great to interact for the audience and kind of hear the questions that they had and the excitement and the energy around the messaging was really really powerful all right so bring us a little bit into the solutions how are they benefiting you know all of your partners absolutely so for those of you guys who don't know really who Acronis does a lot of people know us really as a backup company from back in the day maybe consumer backup maybe small medium-sized business on-premise backup solutions we've completely transformed the company over the last few years and how we talk about cyber protection which is the combination of cybersecurity and and and data protection we frame that in some tenants that we call sabes so safety accessibility privacy authenticity and security we take those solutions delivering the partners like as cast so that they can then wrap additional services around their customer base to increase the ARPU that they're getting there increase the margin that they're collecting from their customers and obviously deliver an end-to-end complete cyber protection solution all right so Jason you're here is the voice of the customer so as Castle what are your customers telling you and how does that resonate with them so for our customers data protection has always been important they've had to address the number one rule is never lose the data and with the cyber threats today always changing they're not sure what to do so they turn to us as their service provider to help guide them through you know to make sure that they're not one of the next companies on the news and it's nice as a service provider to be able to combine those those services and products with a vendor like a Cronus so that we can provide more value we can strengthen relationships and not have 300 vendors that we have to work with all right my understanding you spend a lot of time with the financial institutions absolutely they don't want to be the next one you know on the front page of the paper in the news on the radio and the like so anything specifically for them that that's worth calling out so I think with the financial services companies having the ability to protect their data their portfolio that they hold you know so important to their business they don't want anyone to have access to that and if any of their so they have to meet the requirements of the investors they have to meet the requirements of the financial institutions and make sure that they're following all of the different guidelines and depending on which markets are in what countries are in they all have different data sovereignty rules they have to deal with gdpr and so there's a lot of different areas that they need to navigate and so they as castle as a service provider we help them understand you know and kind of build that in as a standard and that's what we've done with the Cronus is we've built in the data protection strategy and now we can look at adding in the cybersecurity components to our portfolio to help give them that comprehensive suite and then I you can imagine how it takes a lot of different solutions to pack those together to provide an end band solution for their customers I think one of the beauties of recurrence is that we allow you to provide multiple services in a single pane of glass so you get a lot of very smart people on your team that have to manage multiple solutions what we try to provide is that single opportunity that single solution they learn one thing where they can be backup disaster recovery secure files things are all in one platform allow them to kind of minimize the number of solutions they need to be experts on to provide their customers the highest level service all right Jason security is a very much a multi-faceted you know ever-growing landscape out there tell us how is castle partners with the Cronus and how it fits into your your overall services so our partnership with the Cronus first started with data protection it was one of the first solutions that we were able to find that was able to fit every use case so as a platform as a service provider we're supporting on-premise legacy equipment our hosted VMware cloud infrastructure multi-tenant and infrastructure as your every flavor of cloud services you could imagine because we want the customer to have the solution that fits their needs the best and what we were looking for and a Cronus was able to provide for us was one platform of data protection that was able to be universal across all the different use cases so that's where it starts as a foundation always protecting the data always having a backup in multiple locations and all of our data centers worldwide and now to be able to layer on top of that some of the cybersecurity components in one single pane of glass is only going to allow us to give a better level of service to our customers and Panna I expect that a lot of stuff that we talked about with the financial services translate to many other industries yeah I mean the of the day data's data right and you could talk about different verticals how they use that data the other day it's all about protecting the data making sure your data is secure making sure you have an authentic copy of your data making sure that everything is secure so for us you know we we are known as a backup company but backup is kind of going away you need a more complete solution so one of the things that all these guide bad bad doers out they're doing is they're really trying to go after your backups and trying to lock them down because they understand that that's a first place you're gonna go to try to recover from a ransomware attack our solutions are based on artificial intelligence allowing the machine learning capabilities within our solutions to detect those from from the beginning from to prevent our customers from a zero-day attack so that you're not relying on that one backup to make sure your infrastructure can get back up and running you know and Jason maybe just frame for us the relationship between you and your customers and security you hear everything from you know certain cloud providers are like you know well you know we're like your landlord you know you made her lock your doors and take care of all that stuff and others are more you know hey we're gonna you know really go belly to belly with you and make sure that we've done everything bulletproof with you but what do you hear these days and what we're hearing from the customers is that they're looking to everyone is looking to migrate either start their cloud strategy if they haven't if they've been you know behind the curve if they've had a cloud strategy they were looking to increase we've actually had some customers want to maybe come out of the hyperscale as already so there's a lot of different use cases a lot of different journeys that the customers run and I think helping them navigate so what we've been able to do is as part of our services is wrap around the different cloud services a layer of security at each component so there's that perimeter network the you know there's all of the firewalls next-gen firewalls are now are a requirement they're no longer optional mobile devices endpoint protection network security fishing spearfishing user education there's so many different things that that their own employees need to be aware of that they never had to worry about before and it's it's almost you know like 20 years ago when disaster recovery emerged on the market cybersecurity now is front and center and if you're not paying attention to it at some point it's gonna come up and bite them so we're working with our customers to make sure they never have to deal with that yeah and I think an important part of that it's no longer just the data center right it's all those edge devices right we live in a very connect world data is transferred across multiple devices every day so there's different points where there's a vulnerability that could be identified and you can't just rely on an end user to make sure that they're protecting me well and especially if I know when I was having the earlier conversation with William we're talking about the smbs you know you know if the enterprise I've got my C so and I've got my team and I'm gonna work on that if I'm the SMB well it might be a generalist that security is under the bucket of all the other things that they need to do and therefore they're going to need to turn to their platforms and their partners to help them with a lot of this I mean to say they go to the IT guy right who say well he resolves everything at the end of the day enterprises have big budgets to spend on the stuff I heard something for the analysts reports that you know they're talking about high-level guy at Bank America so what's your budget for cybersecurity I have a budget that ever needs to be spent we're gonna spend on that to make sure that our customers data is secure what we really try to do is package lot of that stuff together to make it affordable complete secure for any customers no I absolutely think most of your customers don't have the billions of dollars to be able to say that they've at least done what they needed to do to make sure that they've they've done all they can so Jason I'll give you the final word first and Pat for you know things that you took away from the show and bring in to your customers so a in the panel discussion we had at the show we were asked to talk about different experiences as a service provider and one of the things that was really important for us that came from the audience was you know what does it take to switch how do you select your vendors and I think what's often overlooked by service riders is the cost of choosing a vendor and what we mean by that is if we were to choose the wrong vendor there is a huge cost of operations to switch from one vendor to the other where you're taking a very limited resource pool of the people on the operations team that are usually focused on on boarding new customers servicing the existing customer base generating revenue who now have to go to non revenue operations just to make that heavy-lift of a transition so picking the partnership with the Kronus was really important to us we made that change and it's been the best decision we've ever made yeah just to piggyback off of that we're not someone that our partners right so we considered as Castle be very strong channel partner of ours they give us reach into that mm custer community the other day they're really the experts we're providing some technology they can rely upon upon to provide a secure complete solution for their customers but that was really the key takeaway for me as you're able to interact face-to-face with your partners directly you're able to hear some of the pain points that they deal with on a daily basis it's not over email so I don't know phone calling on a zoom or WebEx you know you're talking face-to-face these guys understand those real-time problems and working toward solutions together at one big event so that's been fantastic we hope to double attendance for the next event and bring even more partners into the fold pen Jason thank you so much for sharing your takeaways from the Acronis global cybersecurity summit I'm Stu Mittleman and thanks as always for watching the cute

>>Live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the Q covering Nutanix dot. Next 2019 brought to you by Nutanix. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of dot. Next here in Copenhagen. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Stu Miniman. We are joined by Sammy Zog LaMi. He is the SVP sales Europe, Nutanix and Sylvan CU. He is the senior director systems engineer for EMEA at Newtanics. Thank you so much for coming on the cube for you for returning. And this is your first time. >>First time. Absolutely. >>Well I want to, I want to start with you. You were on the main stage this morning and you were describing being one of the first few employees in France, working out of hotel lobbies, keeping all the promotional materials in your house and people not even knowing how to pronounce Nutanix. Now here you are for you six years later. Describe, describe a little bit what it, what, what this journey has been like for you. Being at Nutanix >>for this journey. Um, you know, is a, is a successful journey obviously, uh, where we started from scratch in Eva, uh, where we built a lot of relationship with the channel. We started to have our first stories with customers and, uh, you know, the only thing we could not, uh, you know, focus was the speed of growth. And I, if you told me six years ago that we would be four and a half thousand, you know, in this conference, I wouldn't have believed it. And I think the, you know, overall journey is a, you know, an accelerated journey of development and that we have, >>yeah, Sam, Sammy, prednisone side, a little bit about, uh, you know, we sometimes call it nation building, but, uh, you know, the channel of course, a very important, uh, you know, talked about some of the, kind of, the challenges in, uh, some of the successes as to what, what has made Nutanix so successful, uh, in, in your time. Yeah. I think, uh, >>you know, the technology is for sure a big element in this that is solving business problems. But when you think about it, there's many stories of great technologies that didn't make it or didn't make it big. So I think the openness of this company from day one, uh, to work with partners to work with an ecosystem of Alliance partners. Uh, we were also very open to share how the Nutanix technology is built and is working. So there's a lot of openness around your Hasise works. It's not a black box. Uh, and we integrate with the ecosystem. So for our positioning, which is mainly initially the data center, the large environments we have to integrate into customer environment, we have to integrate with existing technologies and uh, the fact that we are open from day one and we keep that line is helping a lot in the traction. >>I want to get into that strategy in a little bit, but I want to bring you into this conversation to Sylvan and, and just to have you talk a little bit about what you're seeing in the competitive landscaping, what, what are some of the things that Nutanix needs to focus on? Because the competitors are a really edging in. We are focused to deliver >>our vision and continue to build the pieces that are still under construction there right now. And to be back on the question about the partners, the adoption also come first from the partners before their customers. And really working with them on engaging with them was the result of the success was not just signing contract enabled them, but really engaging with them at customer sites. And as soon as they see the reaction of the customer, they can be believe in it. And we scaled very fast because of them. I'm wondering, get both of your comments. Talk about the, uh, the competition for talent. Also, when you talk about Nutanix over 5,000, the channel is very strong. It makes it a little bit tougher, uh, to kind of pull those pieces in. If you're Silicon Valley, Oh, there's this startup, I want to join, things like that, but have to imagine things are a little bit different. And I'm in Mia, >>I would say. Well, competition for talent is definitely here in Emir, especially on the topics that we are tackling in the cloud, the DevOps, big data, et cetera. Um, now, you know, we are not attractive brand, uh, you know, there's a demonstrated pass of development for our employees. So I think on top of being a successful company, we have a lot of proof points of building careers. So people want to join for the fun for the success. We are also to be able to fast career. That's helps now saying that it's still not an easy task. You know, there's a, especially the volume of recruitment we are doing, uh, so we have organized ourselves very well, uh, to onboard people, enable people and maybe be in a position to hire people that don't have all the skills but have the right DNA and then we can, you know, always teach the skills. That's the way we are. >>and on a technical side, uh, all the user's previous it vendor let's say, was looking for specialists of complexity. You know, what is the behind the scene and we are in different situation, meaning that we can start small first and we talk about the project of the customer. And until this project works, we cannot move forward. We cannot obsessive. So our situation is more consultative and being a trusted advisor of what they tried to achieve and not anymore on what we tried to build our own our side. >>That's a very important point. The mindset of successful employees are the ones that are focused on the outcomes. You know, they're not here to sell a product, they focus on project and the outcome of customers. >>So how do you find that person when you are, when you're interviewing your pool of applicants? I mean that, that is, that is such an important part of the culture here, this people first attitude and really being all hands on deck if a customer has an issue. So how do you, how do you know when you're interviewing someone that, that, that they have got their, the right DNA to be here? >>Well, first we knew before they, during the interview, because we are well connected on the market and we have sources of information about how they operate on day to day. Now, of course, of hiring so many people over the years helps. And there's a lot of small details that, you know, we can notice, uh, in, uh, in our recruitment process. I think we've gotten very professional in the way we recruit. We still have a lot of refills as well from employees, which helps in terms of, uh, you know, making sure we hiring the right DNA, but we want to diversify. We don't want people coming from the same background. We're doing a pretty good job on diversity, on every topic, you know, gender, ethnicity, background, uh, this is a, you know, pretty good success. Alright, so >>semi you, you've got a new role. So it gives us a little bit of insight as to your vision. What should we should expect to see as a strategy for Nutanix and EMEA? >>I would say first, uh, you know, three months on the job and I have no intent to break anything that works. Uh, I think there's a successful recipe in anemia, which is a legacy of Chris Keller Ross. Uh, lots of good methodologies, verse of good principles of working, no intention to change that and maybe the phase after that for MEA, but for the whole company is to focus on Australia. And we see that, you know, our technology is well suited for mission critical environment is well suited for strategic projects for customers. And maybe we should become the default, uh, you know, uh, vendor that you think about when you go for mission critical projects and you know, trust formation. Uh, I think today we do a very broad set of projects with customers. Um, tomorrow I would like customers to think first about Nutanix when they think about something that is critical to their business. >>And in the same way for partners, uh, if we can move from being a vendor with high grows, great margin to a vendor that is helping them transform, you know, their business model or the way they attack different segments, you know, then we will have achieved a good phase two. What do you see as the biggest challenges facing you right now? Well, the biggest challenge is inside clearly is growth. We see that in every area, every time we grow fast, then suddenly you need to change organization processes, your principle of working and you, you need to reassess yourself and your way of doing things. Even at pesonal level. Uh, that's the biggest challenge. I think we, if we are not constantly paranoid about re re assessing that uh, growth can break a lot of quality, uh, in the relationship we have with customers but also in our velocity. >>Oh, I wonder if you could bring us inside the customers a little bit. What are some of the key roles that you find in, you know, where does Nutanix has the best engagement with and you know, strategically where would Nutanix may be a change over time as to where they're, where they're engaging with a customer. >>So now there is no more question about the fact that part of the, it will be in the cloud part will be internally, some people will go more one side or the other side because Nutanix both technology >>on both sides, we can take care of old school application and be sure that can still run in the cloud. And on this society, if you develop an application totally distributed and so on, meaning a cloud native, we can run it on a Nutanix and all the platform looks like the pubic cloud for this application. So we are the unique situation where we can, we don't need to be in the cloud or outside of the cloud, meaning that we can give a strategy with the customers or what it can do. What is the good point, what is the most difficult to achieve on both sides. And also we provide a way to package application to deploy everywhere. We have all these governance tools on top of it because we know the new way of consuming the cloud is more open bar, which you need some way of controlling the situation and we are really trusted advisor on their strategy to define what will be their it in two, three or four years. >>Okay. So sounds like not just the infrastructure owner but talking to the application owner or some of the C suite that might make some of those broader strategic decisions. >>Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Uh, the platform works, meaning that there is no more cushion on that at scale. You get all the benefits that you can see on the, on the public cloud. Now it's more the way you consume it, you organize the consumption and also you've have those, the same of urine Mount whatever is the application, uh, to, to find the, to have the best place for this application. >>What would you say your, your, your here as you said, uh, at in Copenhagen, thousands of European customers all here under one roof. What are you getting out of this? What kind of conversations are you hearing? What's most surprising to you? Just to, I mean we're, I know we're only in the beginning of day one, but what, what do you, what are you hearing right now? >>Well, we talked to a few customers already and what's a very common pattern? Most of the customers I took so far, they really accelerating on becoming a service organization. So enterprise companies, they really want to organize themselves to be cloud ops. And even though we were talking about automation before, now they really are doing it and they are actually focusing on changing the skills of their teams, their organizations and of course the technology afterwards. >>Yeah. Uh, any, any particular is on automation. Cause I think back, we've been talking about automation my entire career. I agree with you today. It is a, you know, more substantial conversation on automation. Are there any particular as either in Newtanics portfolio where some of the kind of partner tooling out there that are kicking things along? >>So, uh, we talk about automation since a long time, but most of the time that was, you have an orchestrator, it's like a Swiss knife and you can orchestrate what you want, but at the end of the day, nothing was done. We believe that the platform must be automated by design, right? And everything need to be by design. So it's a, it's the difference between the, between the previous way of thinking, automation and now where the platform is totally it. >>I believe Leber GF said autonomous is what >>we were looking for. Yes. You got to the point. If it's not autonomous, why? Why bother? Yeah. Or we had examples of customers who launched private cloud projects and they had like 8,000 Mondays to build the orchestration of the private cloud. And honestly, if you don't have a a hundred thousand VMs to run, it makes no sense. So the fact that no, it's built in and it's not a project to have automation, you know, that makes sense economically as well. Great. Well semi and see you. Thank you so much for coming on the cube. It's a pleasure having you later, Rebecca. Thanks a lot. Thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Mittleman. Stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of.next.

live from London England it's the cube covering dot next conference Europe 2018 brought to you by Nutanix hi and welcome back on with you pissed car and I'm Stu Mittleman and welcome to the CTO segment at Nutanix next 2018 welcome back to the program to my right is Vinnie Gill who's the CTO of cloud services and to his right is Rajeev Murray ani not very honest I mean you know the CTO of cloud platforms a gentleman thanks so much for joining us again thanks dude for having us being back all right rajiv and Binny mechanics it's been kind of busy since last time we've chatted AOS got really a file system rewrite there's been some M&A integration going on as well as organic activity so you know I love talking the CTO is just if you can bring us inside a little bit you know what's been happening what your team's been working on some of the hard challenges I mean things like page be nested hypervisor on top of DCP you know these are some hard challenge getting ready for nvme over fabric you know so some real you know massive things that happen underneath the cover as well as some new products so didn't want to start with you it's tough yeah you know what I'm keeping you to your team busy oh the teams have been quite busy especially you know once you have you know more than 10,000 customers and a product that's earning a lot of revenue coming in and at the same time you have to change the dark surfer preparing for the next generation so it's a lot of work I mean if you're starting from scratch it's much easier whether you know we've had a lot of experience bringing in new capabilities making it transparent to the customer one-click upgrade is really important for us so learning from the past we have been able to rewrite the engine the storage in a way that customers wouldn't notice but it's gonna run just faster you know kudos to the team that they've pulled it off and it goes across the board when we are acquiring new companies that come into the fold of the Nutanix family the whole idea is to make it look seamless to the customer because that's one thing that you know customers know us for like hey is the willit have neutronic simplicity so a lot of learnings we have created some thumb rules to guide people coming in and those are working fine for us and there's you know a method to the madness over here there is in the end one vision that we want to provide a true hybrid cloud experience to our users do that we feel you're the first start by building the best private cloud you can't have hybrid without private and to do that we need to have an infrastructure that actually works for private cloud so we start with HCI as an initial platform we build on top of that with private cloud features and not just still a networking compute and storage like in the past but more platform services like era and carbon and so on and then once we have that we can then layer on the new hybrid cloud services so even though it looks like getting a lot of things it's all guided by that one region so tell me you know that hybrid that hybrid cloud vision you know where doesn't lead us doesn't lead us to you know the public cloud in the end does it lead us to a new 10x cloud where where does that help customers go towards well the way I look at it is that it doesn't lead to any one place it leads to multiple clouds there'll be private clouds of the edge clouds distributed clouds big central public clouds the important thing is can you move applications and data between between flowers and analogy I use is you know 20 years ago if you if you were writing applications to Solaris you were pretty much locked into Sun if you go by writing applications for hp-ux you were pretty much locked into into HP once Linux came along and made it possible to write applications for any x86 everywhere got independence from from from underlying hardware and the same thing will happen with cloud today you have to write applications for Amazon for GCP for Asha who can build an operating system that actually commoditize is all that that makes it possible for you to run on any cloud with the same set of applications so that kind of sounds to me like you're you know doing V motion and H a India res but then you know for a new generation of technologies well not be motion across clouds is of course the goal it is the goal but it's not just enough to move the applications around data around you have to move the management plan has to be the same so the lot more to it than just simply copying by it's across maybe you want to add to it yeah I mean basically adding to what Rajeev said if you ask where will hybrid cloud lead I think it leads to a dispersed cloud you know some of it was also mentioned by readers in the keynote which is you know this big monolithic cloud concept has to atomize into much smaller pieces and distributed and that's what's going to happen but you start with solving it at the hybrid and at least solve it for two and from two you go to many and that's what's really exciting yeah it's a really good point then I want you to help expand on that a little I I think back to companies that don't portfolios and you look at it and say okay well I product a B and C and boy I I don't know how to use those together because they for an inner basis and how do I work them together today you know I think micro-services architecture I think about api's pulling everything together what are those guiding principles that you give internally to teams to make sure that I can use the pieces that I want they work all together they work with you know there's really broad ecosystem you have and all these multi cloud environments so you know as much effort we put in building architecture for the product design I mean we have to put the same amount in terms of how is it going to be consumed by the customer in just having a long portfolio is no longer what customers are looking for looking for simplicity so to your point one of the things we are really careful about is especially when we are acquiring technology in organically is how do you make sure identity and billing is it's the same right that's the most important thing so you don't have to login once in this product once natural basic stuff but if you get it you know right it's just delightful the other thing is about experience developer experience and user experiences these are the two other out of the four factors user experiences around like do I have to learn this again like if you look at companies like Apple I mean if I've used the Mac use they try to make it very similar such that even a two-year-old can figure out how to use it and we would like to say that if you have been an IT industry for two years you should be able to use any Nutanix product and developer experience is around api's we have a standard that we have Jade version three intent full api is and that is creating a standardization across you saw a little bit of the opening the demo today there you know I went through calm and epoch and flow and prison throw all from one pane of glass it didn't look like four different products in fact why not mentioned there were four different products it probably wouldn't have been obvious that they were and that's important to us keeping that experience seamless is very important and that comes at a cost I mean it's we could have released it as soon as we acquired some of these things and punted it on to the customer to figure out how these pieces come together but we know our customers have a higher expectation from us so we take the time and from from that perspective you know as a as a user you know I'm used to working with different types of clouds public private I wrote anything in between and the amount of interfaces I have to touch to get you know something working to get a series of products to to align to do what I wanted to do that's becoming such a difficult task that you know having a single interface or having a familiar interface would actually help in that so maybe you can talk a little while use that UI to go into the public clamor into the hybrid cloud as well to make you know that experience easier as well talk about a couple of things one whenever there's a proliferation of technologies and you're trying to glue it together I mean single pane of glass is one thing that people talk about I think that's not the most important thing I mean obviously it's a requirement it's a necessary condition not a sufficient one to make it sufficient you also have to bring in opinion into the design and the opinion is where we are taking some decisions for the customer where you know the customer would care about learning about those things and that's where no tonics will come in and through our best practices we put our opinion in the design of the product so that the number of decision points where the customer is minimize and that's how you basically start consuming this diversity out there at the end of the day for the business the only two things matter that business logic and business data infrastructure is sitting in the middle lights it's like a necessary evil so you know if we can hide it and make it seamless you know customers really happy about it can you talk about that the feedback loop you have with customers things are changing very fast you know it's hard for anybody to keep up you know this week even you know hoot anacs has a lot of announcements that I'm sure will take people all the time to there how do you get the feedback loop to customers to make sure your your they're getting what they need from to understand your products and your understanding where they are in their journey and you know mature the product line yeah I mean we have a whole bunch of channels we have we just had a customer advisory board yesterday you know invite customers and have a really deep intimate conversation and frank conversation you know what's working for you what's not working we have our engineering team on slack channels and whatsapp channels with our customers especially the customers who are really you know they complain about a product and they have opinions amenity so we just try to short-circuit this thing and then it's all about empathy so getting a team note here the customers just absolutely retrieve I definitely want your pin but just feedback actually I talked to a few customers and they said I don't know how Nutanix does it but for a company their size I feel like I get personal attention in touch points so congratulations it's good the stuff you saw today is a direct result of the feedback the grouping of products into core essentials and enterprise kind of also reflects the customer journey a lot of customers start with us for with the core once they get used to that get their sense as far as build a true private cloud and only then they started looking at multi cloud so right products for the right customer it's something that we are taking very very seriously at this point so I want to dive into that you know right product right customer so one of the announcements you made is carbon had kubernetes as as a manager platform so what customers do you do you service with that product how do you go into customers like that and how do you help them kubernetes is one of the most fastest growing technologies in the IT space that we have seen in the in the recent years and a lot of our customers I would say especially this year we have seen they have developers using containers and they are at a point where they're trying to decide how can I put it in production a production has a many requirements their carbon is being used by our customers who are trying to see how they'll put containers into production and what we are doing with carbon is we providing native kubernetes api Zsasz is there an open source but we're solving the heart problems of upgrades scale out high availability troubleshooting these mundane things that you know usually people don't want to do and that's where we come in and help so I've seen customers use our storage volumes for even databases containerized to stateless things it's all across the board but still early years I mean for this kind of ecosystem but it's headed into you know it's going to be the future you know one of the things I found really interesting to watch is over the last two decades we've talked about intelligence and automation in infrastructure but really things are happening fast now when you talk about you know whether a I or ml there's really things that are creating some intelligence that it's not like oh I created some script and it does something but you know it's working well I know there's a number of places that that fits into your portfolio maybe maybe prism X play it would seem to get some good resonance and cheers from the audience because maybe they've all played with you know the you know if TTT so start from there and how do you think about the AI in ml space yeah so we we look at you know computing evolving from manual mostly manual in the past to more automated but really you want to get to this autonomous computing that that sort of talked about so you know think of it as you know causes to be really difficult to drive in the past it used to require knowing how the carburetors work and cleaning them out once in a while to the point where maybe 15 years ago pretty much didn't know anything about the internals of a car but you could drive it was reliable it would work which is probably where we are today in IT but the real goal is to get as an autonomous computing the self-driving cars at Tesla Google now where you don't even have to be paying attention at the car will just drive itself yeah I have TTT and the x-play stuff that we have as a step in that direction it's obviously very early but it's the beginning of a journey where you can then start taking feedback loops learning what works modeling that out and extending capabilities on your own and that is something we'll be looking at over the next few years and you know it's something where I don't think it's it's not cute and that's why it needs to be done it's actually required you know if you look at Moore's law it applies to machines so every year you will have double the number of course and you know the same dollar can buy more if you look at humans that's not true I mean ever here then you're only getting more expensive in fact lower for customers here say talent is scarce so just by that definition you see machines are growing and the people who manage the machines are shrinking or you know static so you have to put in a layer of the machine which is smart in the in the between in between of the human and the large form of machines and that if you don't do it there is no data center so it's inevitable and you'll see this happen more and more so that kind of sounds like you're you know positioning your portfolio in a way that you enable the IT of people to not care about infrastructure as much anymore but help you know the their employer their customer do other stuff so how does your portfolio relate to the freeing up of time for those employees for those jobs personnel people some of it is just goes back to the poor design principle I would go to them basic you know how do we how do we start as a company we're looking at storage and they were dual controller a and B a ties B is running but guess what I'm worried that B will also die is the same age so I have to run to fix a run to fix a is my weekend and the night wasted if I had n one dies fine of it's a capacity problem so that goes to the core like how do we design things that are scale out and web scale we talked about so everything that we do including now prism central scale out I have to rush to go fix things hardware will always fail right and that's you know it permeates in the entire organization in terms of how we design things and then on top of that you can add automation and machine intelligence and all that but fundamentally it goes to engineering when you talk about we talked about earlier in the discussion kind of the rewrite that went on for emerging applications and emerging technologies I guess what's exciting you these days you know the industry of the Hall containers you know we looked at you know Flash technology containerization you know I looked at Nutanix when it first came out as was you know some of these waves coming together hyper scale and software-defined and flash all kind of with a perfect storm for the original generation what what are what are those next waves coming together that that you think will you know have a massive impact on the industry a lot of innovation going on on every layer of the stack I mean if we start with the hardware it's been coming for a while but it's almost here now the whole concept of having persistent memory essentially dims blocks having memory that can persist across reboots and we byte addressable so this is a big difference for the storage market right we've always had block addressable story let's become flight addressable paradigms of computing will change and Wharton's will change how we write programs will change so there's a whole big wave coming and getting prepared for that was very important for you yeah and if I control into that a little bit cuz you know what I thought about you know before it was I had you know like like pull of storage and my full of compute and I had my networking and well you know what your solution is I just have a pool of infrastructure but I need specific data in specific places and latency is really important you know Amazon just announced do you know a new compute instance with hundred gigabit networking for you know the same type of application we're talking about Hana and persistent memory and the like so do we not think of it as a pool anymore it's a here you know metadata and data are gonna get more localized so how should we think of your infrastructure going forward you should think of it as a fool we should worry about making it all all work well and that's that that is essentially our job if we can succeed at that then you would never have to think about it as well this particular you know storage is allocated with this particular application at this current time it's up to us to make that happen as applications are running from your direction you feel you know absolutely another thing that's happening in IT in the in the space of compute is the upper limit of this pool is being hidden right so for example in the old days those discs then there was a virtual disc but it had a capacity and you would format it when you look at s3 doesn't have a capacity you don't format it that's what's and that's more to application design when you don't think about the capacity of the pool that you're using that's the direction where we need to go and hide all this right Amina so just-in-time purchase of the next hardware that you need to get but the developer does not see the upper limit well retrieving Binnie thank you so much for sharing all that this Congrats on all the progress and look forward to what were you gonna bring on down lives down the road thanks to you for you piss car I'm Stu minimun lot more coverage here and Nutanix dot next London 2018 thanks for watching

[Music] hi I'm Stu Mittleman and welcome to a cube conversation really excited to have to the program a first-time guest and a user Vinny Chopra is an IT engineer with Medallia Vinny thank you so much for joining us thank you and - Vinny's left we have Krishnan bad Rena Ryan in who's a director of product marketing with Nutanix Chris thanks so much for you here okay so we always love to be able to dig in with the customers understand the challenges they're facing Chris let's set the table first I'm very familiar with Nutanix we go to all the new tannic shows and the like but for customers what is Nutanix to them why do they turn to Nutanix okay absolutely so I think it's a great time to be in IT you see new businesses that are sprouting at all the last 10 years or so starting with uber Airbnb specifically the ones we've really heard of that have disrupted some really really big industries right so technology is making it happen while IT teams are the ones that help make that happen and helps those CEOs disrupt they're not in the best of positions to utilize infrastructure they have today the way it's set up to be able to get more done be more agile and truly serve the needs of the business and help create those competitive differentiation which is why neutronics is here to help our partners within companies such as yourself to be able to be those people to lean in and help CEOs really achieve what they're trying to get that yeah that's great yeah we definitely see it used to be okay IT was a cost center IT you know business would actually ask for something in IT would often be the no or be really slow and do they work with that so Vinnie before we dig into the IDE piece of it tell us a little bit about Medallia the business what's happening what's Sherma Delia's been around for about 15 years now we're located in it we're headquartered in San Mateo we used to be in Palo Alto moved last year we have a brand new building right off 101 a 92 we our analytics company and we and there's a lot of lots of fields in analytics we specialize in an area called CX which stands for customer experience and our goal is to make our customers customers happy which therefore makes our customers happy and we specialize in doing surveys and then especially in designing surveys for different types of companies and then and then we analyze that data you know surveys well Vinny I I find there's very few companies that I talked to whose industries are stagnant or not changing much the analytic space space that we cover heavily you know here here on the cube and with our research it's boy has that changed a lot I mean five years ago we were talking very much about Big Data today you know all the AI ml and and things like that what what give us a little bit about what's it like being in that business you know fast driving your silicon valley-based I have to imagine that the business is going through a lot of changes that put stresses and strains on IT oh definitely so I better the IT industry for many years and IT area different big companies Sun Microsystems Juniper Networks NetApp in the past excite calm which was a search engine way back when before Google days I remember excite you know because Microsoft didn't they buy that or things well there was an early cerulean at home there's a partnership with that on but yeah excited people would confuse as to wait excite calm what kind of site was that it's like no no it's a search engine back before by the way audience for those of you that haven't been around a while it wasn't all just being in Google there were a lot of predecessors that there was four or five big search engines at that time so most of my company had been out we've always been packaging stuff in a box and selling it in this is my first time at an analytics company and it's it's like you said it's a fast-moving field things are being the things there's no development staging production type of stuff things are just continuously being put into production changes are made you know customized you know customer's applications and their interface so it's it's a very fast-moving alright and Vinny you say IT engineers your job what does that encompass what your role how many people in the group what is your sure so we have basically two IT groups we have one that manages our production data centers which are which our customers interface with and we have one that supports our engineers so I'm part of that group and it's kind of a week up art of the IT system and engineering team and that involves traditional IT tasks like backups monitoring application install new server installs managing storage networking basically keeping infrastructure and applications running as efficiently as possible and therefore keeping our engineers happy because they can get their work done and their development done okay sounds like a you know pretty typical from from what I hear from companies is it what do you hear from customers structure-wise challenges they're facing absolutely so it's very much in line with what you were just talking about where there's these multiple needs from the business and customer expectations so how do you really help IT organizations be able to keep up with those needs infrastructure needs to be the big quittez data needs to be Vic witness application services need to be Vic Willis and you need to be able to scale out as your business needs needs to do so to be able to serve all those multiple requirements so whether it's standardizing internal applications that are delivered through virtual desktops or deploying databases are starting up customer websites you need to be able to do that and respond as quickly as possible and if you're spending cycles on acquiring infrastructure deploying it making sure it's well integrated and then once it's up and running figuring out what went wrong and enjoying those multiple nights of pizza right to figure out how to get this thing going back to the way it was it's it just distracts you from what's important so it's only when you make infrastructure invisible and truly scalable very much cloud-like and and make it your own as a process of doing so can you truly be that business partner and you and I hope we've done that with you definitely all right so Bennie let's go inside was there a specific project rollout that you would that led towards Nutanix was there a pain point you were having would give us kind of the before and what was the mature so traditionally an IT you would you want to set up a new application at you in your infrastructure environment you would buy servers and you would buy storage you would buy HBA cards which helps you connect the servers to the storage you've got things like worldwide numbers to worry about getting the right cables getting the right cards and then you put it all together you get all the stuff delivered and then two weeks later you might have things working and but you having some permission issues security issues so it was always a big challenge to get things up and running so it was the fun of ideas let's roll up our sleeves let's turn those geek knobs and you know optimize everything and yeah within six months I'm sure everything's rocking in right everything's rocking rolling but you're still not quite confident that things are running you're worried that a card might go bad you're worried that a world-wide number might change somewhere or somebody might you know mess up your security so you would spend a lot of time just getting things up and running versus spending time on development and you know working with your people you're supporting and trying to try to enhance things versus just keeping things getting things up and running so Nutanix you know with the hyper-converged infrastructure you know what kind of we're not worried about those things anymore it has our storage needs it has our compute needs it has our memory needs so what was it a refresh cycle what was the impetus that led to looking at a new arc sugar as we were growing and entering base was growing an IT was growing and our requests and you know what we need to satisfy was increasing tremendously we before we were working with just individual desks like desktops or blade servers but each one was kind of working individually with its own storage its own applications not the notion things weren't being shared or anything and we were just growing fast so we needed some we need a new infrastructure where we could actually have everything working of most efficiently and be secure and fast and and easy to manage and so we did look at we did some analysis on a few products and Nutanix you know after some a few pocs Nutanix was our product of choice yeah I mean you described something we heard a lot is it used to be every application you would kind of build your own temple for it yeah let me build it let me get the performance I need let me optimize certain things let me forecast how it's gonna grow but I get islands out there as opposed to I want to be able to scale I don't want to worry about you know here's one of the challenges out there most people and across the board forecasting is really hard or impossible I either overestimated a bunch and then I bought stuff I didn't eat her right under missed it estimate it and then oh my gosh I need to look to a new architecture yeah and then things ended up burning like at 10% of you know you utilizing temperature of the resources that you're purchasing yeah I remain poor virtualization it was like you know six seven percent is usually what we were running awesome so challenges before and we had you know silos out there I couldn't share I couldn't do talk about that that role how did you get from that old environment to the new one there's something I said when you you look at this wave of really a distributed architecture in the old world migrations were really really tough yeah and you had to do it with every cycle hopefully moving to an architecture like this this is your last migration it was like you know my wife always said the last time that's the last time I never want to have to move well I T I'm sure those migrations were always painful what was the experience my heading to migrations was is one thing that we went through but also just now it's just setting up new VMs or new applications new servers it's you know within a few minutes versus hours as far as migration we were we were running a hypervisor before but like I said it was on individual servers so the migration was basically picking your VMs or your servers one at a time and just migrating over to Tenex once it was there and you know with the hypervisor tools that are available it's very easy to use it's like things like vmotion or different types of migration tools that Nutanix offers with their hv hypervisor so it was just it was pretty seamless it was just you just pick and choose and identify your destination host ons Nutanix node or Nutanix cluster and all your stories that you want to move it to and just go okay so so Vinnie you went through a bit of a bake-off to figure out the solution tell us when you finish the deployment how are you measuring what does success mean to in deployment of your stand point and give us the after what show does this change for your process your organization sure qualitatively success is when our engineers are smiling and not calling us too much and asking us go to lunch versus telling us about issues they're having so that's qualitatively quantitatively looking at performance CPU memory I ops performance on a storage how our applications responding that that's what we measured it quantitatively yeah did you know like what kind of utilization you're getting on your current infrastructure then with the Nutanix um also currently you meet as far as uh what you said you were lucky to get 10% in the old world do you measure that yeah we met her that week we kind of um you know we have our kind of have our choices of how much storage you want to use how much CPU remember you want to allocate to each VM and we we just monitor it and through the prism interface that Nutanix offers the image you can actually see performance of each VM and you can decide when to throttle things so but as far as you know how much we're utilizing we're you know we have it we have a structured where we have room to grow so yeah absolutely and if we do need to grow later we can easily add nodes or you know chassis wood notes yeah I think back to the early years of you know what we call hyper converge environments and it was like oh well they are monolithic blocks even if they're small and but you don't have flexibility there when I look at you know many of the solutions especially what Nutanix ups there's a lot of flexibility into how I can grow in scale and get the the utilization that I need but get the performance the ops and everything what I think from your customers how is that story play out today yeah I mean ultimately it's all about empowering people right it's about making IT people truly successful broadening their skillset giving them greater control over the full stack if you will right so it's no longer siloed across functions you're no longer found helpless relying on a different team to deliver upon something that was promised based on a certain SLA so how do we do that how do we make evolved functional specialists into IT journalists would then become cloud engineers true cloud engineers right the world is changing technology is adapting businesses are a craving for more and the only way we can keep up is to adapt ourselves and utilize the best of breed technologies that gives us that power so as a result we hear that a lot where we find a lot of a customer's progressing from being either storage admins network specialists but most likely virtualization admins who then become these cloud engineers if you will they reorganize that way they tend to be in a position where they are a lot more infrastructure we're talking about 100x of what they used to do prior in the in the earlier days so the the number of the ratios just grow immensely as well as the quality of service provided the SAS are far reduced as they used to be so all of that goodness that our customers are able to deliver to their state goes in the organization makes us feel good about what we do if any would love we talked about you know this the engineers now they're smiling and going out to further then you know fighting bugs anything complaining about is yeah anything kind of when you look at skill set if they're you know I've talked to some entertainment customer he's like oh you know I had that security project that was sitting on my desk for years I can finally tackle that or there's I can be more responsive to the business so that they don't you know I can engage with them rather than just going off running it and do in stealth IT any anything along those lines that you can share I mean one thing like IT admins we typically want to know everything right so we all know what's happening behind the scenes with Nutanix we don't have to as much but we still like to and so we we take the opportunity to you know do trainings learn what's happening in an interface you support when needed so as far as yeah as far as skills go I think it's you know the skills you keep up with it's just different like Chris mentioned it's different different type of administration like we're managing virtualization or managing cloud you know you're not just managing loans and cables you know I love you sounds like you've got a team that's got that intellectual curiosity wants to understand what's going on how was the how was the on-ramp how was the kind of the cycle to understand the Nutanix piece how did you yeah so we learned a lot of the POC of course that's when you kind of you know you can play around with stuff and break stuff and try to break stuff if you want we use professional we used some freshly served since to help us get set up originally and after that it was just kind of learning day to day and just improving improving our knowledge in different areas like not if we're not used to having everything in one like in you know in one kind of a couple jassi's storage and you know compute so that was a networking as well so that was a little bit not challenged technically but just just you just need to reset the mindset these are the way I used to do things versus the the way now I can't do three and in troubleshooting um you know the great thing is when we have troubleshooting we're not calling three different vendors like a networking company a storage company in a compute company and having them point fingers oh it's networking now we if I ever have an issue or a question I call Nutanix supporting it so if any how long has it been since you the solution was deployed about two and a half years now awesome so it but you first of all I love your viewpoint as to how Nutanix has changed in those two those two years and along those lines too now that you look at things through the lens of 2018 if you could go back to peers of yours what would you tell them now that you wish you had known back when you rolled this out a couple of years ago I would you know how to tell them there's a much easier way to minute you know the deploy and manager infrastructure and you know this is this is one of the new techniques is definitely something you should look at alright Chris what what advice do you give to the IP people of the world that you know I'm sure most of them heard about this but you know what misconceptions might they have what what things do we want to make sure we open the door for sure so as a former developer myself you know several years ago I think it's very easy for us to forget the role we play in our organizations we're not all about the applications we're not all over the speeds and feeds we had a critical core part of how businesses go to market and achieve success right so let us recognize that and use the best approaches that are available out there to be able to deliver that value right if it means going where the good hyper-converged infrastructure solution if it means leaning in and building new disruptive technologies and such that can help your businesses do better the other thing that I want to highlight is just as you are in the the customer service business I believe we are as well we pride ourselves on our support so if you have if ask questions about how hyper-converged infrastructure can add value call us give support a call you would be put in touch with anyone who can speak about all the values we deliver to our customers and begin to get some of those ideas all right Vinnie uh want to ask you you you've got some experience works for some of the you know really well-known companies you not only here in the valley but in tech in general what's exciting you these days what do you look at either in the analytic space or an IT that that's getting you excited for me it's I like to get up without stress and so ease of management ease of deployment in the IT area is very that that's one of things I look forward to like you know being able to do other stuff than just focusing on data you know routine stuff yeah and one of those lines if I could give you you know the one wish to help make that goal even more either from Nutanix or you know the broad ecosystem out there what would what would make your job even easier you know it's it's I don't know I'm trying to think of a good answer but it's typically you know when issues once them all we have application issues it would just be some kind of self-healing type things you know maybe or maybe some automatic adjustments that could be done that maybe something in the future yeah like I just means as far as resources allocated to different types of yeah all right Chris sure I'll let you have the final word there cuz absolutely once we simplify modernize the platform modernizing the application some it's definitely something I've heard from many of your customers as to you know that role of infrastructure really is to serve up and support those applications and that seems to be where it's going that's right that's right the the business partners right partners the business CFO whoever on the other side of the fence they care about applications and services not so much about all the blood sweat and tears we put into the infrastructure so I think it's an opportunity for us to help us elevate beyond the infrastructure and focus on apps and services along with making sure we have some of those self-healing capabilities such that take care of us and not require us to pay heat to all those infrastructure speeds and feeds so it's a great opportunity to do and you know be truly strategic in the company right alright well Chris really appreciate you sharing the updates Vinny really appreciate you sharing your customer story it's our purpose here at the cube to always help bring out the information so make sure to check out the cube net if you actually go to the top there's a search we've got over five or six thousand interviews we've done including many customers including many of Nutanix go in search Nutanix you'll find a plethora of content out there if you ever have any question for us please reach out to us see us at any of the shows or in between so I'm Stu minimun and thanks again for watching the cube thank you

from the Regency Center in San Francisco it's the queue covering serverless con San Francisco 2018 brought to you by silicon ankle media upstream in a minute you're watching the cubes coverage of thanks for joining me yeah thanks all right so you work for a company server lists we're in a conference about server list help us explain a little bit your background your company yeah well I guess I'll start with the capital s service the only way I know to distinguish so service got its start when Austin Collins he was an AWS community hero he decided that he wanted to use this new lambda thing to launch some of his own side projects so he built the service framework he did not expect for it to completely skyrocket I think we have like somewhere close to thirty thousand github stars it's like 25 28 at this point and it really kind of like this whole surrealist movement lowercase s now started to build up around AWS lambda and like all of the major cloud providers started launching their own service solutions right and so I got involved with serverless calm because I guess I had been in the tech industry in San Francisco for a while I think I have a pretty non-traditional background for someone who's at a developer tools company I've kind of done things all over the map and right now what I do primarily at service is write a lot of their content you know think that they tweet out things that are in their newsletter on their blog a lot of tech writing and stuff like that yeah you know some techies you know they it's like oh wait that's like marketing stuff we can't do this you give a lightning talk here maybe give give our audience a little bit of a flavor what you talked about there yeah I mean I think one of the biggest appeals to me about service as a company was how passionate everyone there was about the fact that you didn't need to have an engineering background to be able to develop software and we have people in our company who have like film backgrounds who have fashion backgrounds and they're working at a tech company and so really what my talk was about is I deploy applications and that's because technologies like Surrealists really lower the barrier to entry for people who were trying to get involved in this stuff so I was able to deploy a fully working applications that even having to coat that much and I think that it's something really exciting that not a lot of people are talking about right yeah and you're something I'm a little older than you when I went to school it's like we called it programming and that was like you know you wrote code which meant you know you got some big book you look like you know lines of code and you execute this now it's like you know well coding you take a bunch of stuff you put it together you know it looks you know very different from you know what I learned to program back in the day and therefore you know right you don't need a CS major necessarily to be able to get some doing and several it sounds like you know is lowers that bar even more right yeah I mean like one of the things is I do feel like AWS lambda for instance that already makes it so much easier to be able to you know code something and publicly host it you don't have to worry about setting up your own server isn't all that stuff it also makes it a lot cheaper to get started so if you just have like this side project or a hackathon project you know super easy to kind of just deploy that to anyone a cool thing that I feel like other developer tools like the serverless framework does is make it so that you don't even have to understand AWS so you can leverage the power of not having to administer your own servers and also not have to understand like confirmation you know you can just kind of like few lines of code and get it done tell us a little bit of your journey you know what what have you you build with it with the server with stuff how do you get involved in it what can you do with it yeah I mean uh whenever you say how do you get involved you mean just me or just like any person out there so start with a personal oh yeah what what's your recommendation to others yeah I mean I would say there are so many tutorials available that actually start from the basics and one thing that's already started happening is service is attracting all different kinds of people so I would say just start looking online for tutorials like even I've written some that cover everything from how do you set up an AWS account in the first place - how do you put this on AWS and that sort of thing also I think a thing that's really important whenever you take on any sort of side project like this is why does it matter to you and I think for me that reason is I don't have a lot of time you know life is short and there are lots of things I do it we're just like everyone that are so mundane and so routine and I do them over and over and those are perfect candidates for automation and so anytime you have something in your life like that that you feel like you'll be really motivated to never have to do again I feel like it's a great reason to want to learn all right Andrea one of the other things you're involved with here is there's women who serve a lists event that that is happening you know later today so you know we love supporting at Silicon angle in the cube a lot of these women events you know especially here in the Bay Area but all over the place so gets a little bit of insight as to what's happening at this event yeah so I feel like you know one thing that a lot of women in the tech industry can't help but notice is that it's pretty male-dominated and I think that it makes it really important then to try and create community and try to bring more women into the space make it feel like it's really safe and fun place to be for women so I've been throwing these women who serve us happy hours and we're gonna have one tonight after serverless comp so if you're really excited if anyone wanted to come also like keep on event right because we'll be throwing more of them and I hope to see everyone there who can come alright last thing if people want to find out more about women who serve or less about I believe server luscom is the website for your company that's easy as a matter of fact yeah I think in the early days I grabbed us one of the stickers from your company just because I thought it was about serverless in general so alright you know pretty well fused together from a from a branding standpoint yeah yeah I would say that the server list calm and surrealist movement distinction is sort of a blessing and a curse on the one hand it makes it a little bit hard to talk about one or the other you can kind of get them mixed up on the other hand it's been really nice for us to be able to see like all of the excitement that's kind of come out of service and being able to educate people so all right Andrew really appreciate you joining us shit sharing your story as to have somebody you don't have to be in a hardcore a you know developer to be able to get yeah and if anyone makes an application who thought they couldn't code I would love to hear about it yeah and we also love to hear about it here on our program so of course reach out to us the cube dot that's the website I'm just apps to on Twitter always appreciate the feedback love to hear these stories about people using phenomenal technology I'm Stu Mittleman and thanks so much for watching the Q [Music]

welcome to Las Vegas everybody watching the cube the leader in live tech coverage my name is Dave Boehne on time student Leena man he with my co-host Keith Townsend I'm Lisa Meredith John Sawyer coverage of Dell technologies world 2018 thanks so much for having us here and thanks for joining us on the Q how great to be here thank you guys for all the great coverage you always do a wonderful job [Music] loads of people here 14,000 in attendance 6500 partners analysts press you name it it's here talking about all things transformation we have this incredible platform that's been built over the last thirty years but now there are all these new enabling technologies that are going to take it much further as super powers are coming together the compute is now big enough the data is now volume is enough that we can do things never possible before obviously a very good couple of years since the Dell EMC merger it's really helped us there companies have come together right and and the and the offerings have come together together in a much more integrated fashion one of the most funny shows I mean obviously it's important for us to set our vision but you see things like the bean bags and sitting out there as a therapy job they're working so to be able to take a break and just spend some time breathing with some animals really really good and it didn't really experience the fun in the solutions Expo I'm a car guy so you know and talking about the way that we're taking plastic trash out of ocean and making art with it topped off as a great DX rail customer we have gold control try to beat the AI and TVs for a goal and it's a very cool demos vector right behind me we have our partner lounge we're hosting over 800 one-on-one meetings bdellium see executives or the partner executives so it's a combination of technical training networking executive meetings obviously product launches and announcements that we're bringing to market the opportunity to really cultivate it work globally in our global partner summit so it's a pretty active week the power of all of our capabilities we're powering up the modern data center the magnitude shift and what this portfolio can now do for our customers it's mind-boggling we've been talking for years about data as the rocket fuel of the economy and a business transformation and now we're really talking about data combined with those emerging technologies so things like AI IOT blockchain which are really taking that data and unlocking the business value data is the precious metal ISTE it's the crucial asset the whole world is gonna be wired everything is gonna have sensors outside of data center environments that's where all the data is gonna be produced and that's where decisions are going to be made and be all kinds of data if you've got structured data unstructured data and now it's important that we actually get all the disparate data into a format that can now be executed upon the business strategy really is the IT strategy and for that to happen we really have to bring our IT talent up the stack into where it's really enabling the business and that's usually at that application layer makes it more agile removes cost reduces complexity makes the planet more green we think we've got a long way to go in just building a private cloud making the data center if you like a cloud that's part number one freightin number two extending to the hybrid cloud the benefit of the fact that it is hosted in the cloud means that customers don't have anything to deploy and just like your smartphone you get all of the latest upgrades with no effort at all seamless process to scale quickly when you have new hotels coming online for example from a storage administrator perspective you can focus on much more strategic initiatives you don't have to do the day-to-day management you have to worry about what data sending where you don't to worry about how much of the different media types you've put into that array you just deploy it and it manages itself you can focus on more tasks this is the realest first step of actually trying to be truly autonomous storage it took so much time to do it before that I'd have to run my guys ragged for you know two or three weeks I'm like all right stay up overnight make sure at all companies that means value to customers that's money that they're saving directly there's a portfolio effect where customers look across everything that we're doing you say you know I don't really want to deal with 25 little companies but I wouldn't have a bigger relationship with Dell technologies and of course the dirty secret is is that almost all of the cool new apps are some ugly combination of new and old you don't want to have to have some other interface to go to it just has to be a natural extension of what your day-to-day job is you'll get this dashboard kind of help score across the entire environment then you'll see the red yellow green type markings on what to next the isolation piece of the solution is really where the value comes in you can use that for analysis of that data in that cleanroom to be able to detect early on problems that may be happening in your production environment the alternative one one product for everything we've always chosen not to go that path give them the flexibility to change whether it is nvme drives or any kind of SSD drives GPUs FPGAs the relevance of what we are doing has never been greater if they can sustain a degree of focus that allows them to pay down their debt do the financial engineering and Tom Suites our study I want you to take economics out of your decision about whether you want to go to the cloud or not because we can offer that capacity and capability depends a lot around the customer environment what kind of skill sets do they have are they willing to you know help you know go through some of that do-it-yourself type of process obviously Dell UMC services is there to help them you can't have mission-critical all this consolidations without data protection if they're smart enough to figure out where your backups are you're left with no protection so we really needed to isolate and put off network all that critical data we have built into power max the capabilities to do a direct backup from power max to a data domain and that gets you that second protection copy also on a protection storage it's no longer just about protecting the data but also about compliance and visibility it's about governance of the data it's really about management making it available so those are trends in which I think this this industry is not basically evolved over time in comes the Dell technologies world and you see this amazing dizzying array of new things and you're like wow that sounds great how do I do it right train them enable them package it for them I know the guys offer you where you can go in and so classroom kind of sympathy for today and see it in action before you actually purchase and use it we want them to engage in the hundreds of technical sessions that we have but still come away with I wish I could have gone to some more right and and so we we have all those online and and you know for us this is also big ears we're listening and we're learning we're hearing from our customers no I'm a little maybe a little smaller than some of your others but you still treat me like I'm the head you still listen to me I bring you ideas you say this fits so it's very very exciting to have a partner that does that with you do all of your reference Falls see it for yourself I mean I think quite a number of reference calls if people are in the same boat I was you know I'll scream share with them if they want to see our numbers I'll show them this is the opportunity for all of us embrace whether it's in the cube or through the sessions learn adjust because everybody's modernizing everybody needs to transform this is a great opportunity for them to do that with their skill set in their knowledge in the industry if everything you did work perfectly you're not trying enough stuff you need a change agent need a champion most likely at the senior level that's gonna really ride through this journey first three months didn't make a whole lot of progress I was just yelling like a madman to say Weiss it's not getting done and then you have to go back into I have to hire the right people so let's talk a few thing I made changes to the leadership team need more role models you need to get rid of and totally eliminate the harassment and the bullying and the you know old boys kind of club you got to create places where women in and minorities feel like they can be themselves culture plays a huge huge huge role there's just a wealth of enormously talented people now in our company ultimately creating a shared vision and an inspiring vision for what we want to do in the future you either embrace it okay you either stand on the sidelines or you leave the most creative of people from Leonardo da Vinci to Einstein Ben Franklin but Steve Jobs all love of the humanities and the science they stand at that intersection of sort of liberal arts technology you've got to interview Ashton Kutcher yeah which was quite amazing he's an unbelievable people don't maybe don't know no he's an investor he's kind of a geek Yeah right even though he's engineer my training please know that when you bring together a diverse group of individuals Jules always get to better answer for your customer you do place your bets on dell technology that's the right partner for you it's gonna it's gonna move you and your company Michael's got the right vision of where this is going he's got the right technology to do it and we've got great team members to help you get there simple predictable profitable right right keep it it's really that simple we need a few more thousand salespeople so if you're if you're really talented you know how to sell stuff you know it come come come join us at Dell technologies work where I earn more salespeople the future as Bob Dickinson said today we can cool all right everybody that's it from Dell technologies world I love you guys it's always great to be on the cube you guys do a fabulous job they go for a live tech coverage and it really has been a lot of fun we appreciate you and your team being here the next year we're gonna go party for your 10 year anniversary the cube love it we want to thank you for watching the cube again Lisa Martin with John Turner I'm Stu Mittleman this is Keith Townsend thanks for watching everybody we'll see you next time [Music] [Music]

live from Vancouver Canada it's the cube OpenStack summit North America 2018 brought to you by Red Hat the OpenStack foundation and its ecosystem partners welcome back I'm Stu minimun here at the OpenStack summit 2018 in Vancouver with my co-host John Troyer happy to welcome to the program a first-time guest Charles Ferlin who's the vice president of business development at nuage networks thanks for joining us thank you for having me all right so the OpenStack show we're always talking about the maturity of it where customers are going with it you're in business development so what one of the one of the things we were discussing from the keynote this morning is the telcos and the service providers and who's doing what and you know who makes up that environment so it gives us your free point what you're seeing as to you know where some of the real action is in this in this marketplace fair enough we've been talking about nav for example for many years as you know but I would say probably since the second half of 2016 that we've started to see some significant large deployment and the service provider service provider paying attention to building up a telco cloud to host their VN nav applications right so so really from the second half of 26 16 2017 we've seen massive deployments of OpenStack with a service provider and a lot of them to host applications to serve their branch office customers yeah that's that's an another motivation for them to deploy this yes so Charles you know we've talked to the 18 t Verizon you know Deutsche Telekom's up there all these big ones but I look at it and say is this an opportunity of 20 global you know you know you know telcos or is do we go down to some of the MSP CSPs however you want to call those service providers a regional one you know they're some of the regional ones that maybe aren't as much telcos or are they where's that line what do you see is kind of the TAM if you will for this space obviously the large service provider will have a piece there but we see a lot of regional customer consuming services from a local provider right they do have either for language reasons for regulation and in governance so we see a lot of them consuming services from a local service provider so an openstack sort of became the building block of these and if the infrastructure for the service provider yeah it's interesting we actually just had a infrastructure as a service company from Australia okay on and I said you know you look at their website it doesn't say OpenStack anywhere they provide cloud offerings so it's one of the things there's all these telcos and service fighters that use it but it's not like they're like we're your preferred distribution of OpenStack it's just part of the plumbing underneath the use cases that that are address buh-bye OpenStack and served by OpenStack really fits well and a lot of the telco space right now yeah so we've seen a lot of growth for virtual private cloud we see a lot of growth for a dynamically deploying application having application residing in the data center or moving closer to the users at the edge for example and these are sort of the use cases that nuage and OpenStack address pretty well well that's an interesting pivot point right I understand as an enterprise technologist why software-defined networking is important right it's important in your stack it's got to be important inside of an open OpenStack but can you talk a little bit about some of these use cases like I hadn't really thought about SD win and how that that really and what architectures and deployments would really kind of mean that they would need to deploy that with some and that's a good point because really NT as the win served as the catalyst for the service providers who start paying attention to deploying an NFV infrastructure before that there was an interest it was a motivation however SD wins be offered of dynamic flexible agile branch office connectivity that allows them to dynamically insert value-added services so yes as the one provided connectivity between the branch office but really where is the service provider are going after is offering Application Firewall DDoS services or URL filtering in all of these applications residing in the data center and all of a sudden as I hold on I cannot have it as the one solution disjoint from my data center OpenStack deployment and this is where the nuage actually served as a connecting to both environment but also this is what served as a catalyst the sd1 deployment sort of a catalyst for for them to start deploying a dynamic infrastructure in today's yes so Charles just on the SD way in piece itself we've seen a lot of activity that bunch of acquisitions in that market what what differentiates nuage in in this space well fair enough we've seen these acquisition as a complement to the strategy that we have taken over the past five years paying off we are from the get-go started to have an end-to-end as the in solution so it's not just about connecting branch office together it's not about just connecting application in the data center it's actually connecting the users in the branch office with the applications in the data center or in the public cloud and what differentiate us the most is that we have the exact same platform the same as the n solution and 2n to connect branch office programming branch routers or programming virtual switches in the data center or bare metal physical service so that is perhaps new our single most biggest differentiator is the capability to have that single policy that singled as the n framework from the users and branch to the data center or public cloud alright you've mentioned bare metal I remember it was funny when the project came out for bare metal of course it's called ironic because most people can't win OpenStack started it was it's a good name in that it was virtualized environment of course today we've got containers starting to go up the stack with kubernetes so we understand why bare metals there what are you seeing in that space and and what what kind of what do you hear from your customers so we we have a lot of traction with ironic actually it's ironic but we do and we did that actually in open Saxony in November we did a Coe presentation with Fujitsu who deployed our k5 infrastructure using nagy networks and ironic integration to roll out on top of that is flexible you can put a platform as a service they can do whatever they want on top of it but the bare amount of provisioning is somewhere we is a we have a couple of large accounts that they have deployed this globally yeah okay are you working with the cotta containers that they have here and whether you are not would love to hear kind of the security story when we talk things everything for bare metal in containers and what you're doing with OpenStack and that's that's perhaps the other the biggest differentiator we have is because we're able to have the single networking policies from a container to or programming the network of a container or a KVM VM or hyper-v or the we have the symbol their single as the end platform and we're able we see all the therefore we see all the traffic in the data pack and we're able to index this into a elasticsearch database right and and in creating an index and set a lot of users to create some thresholds and that is what is perhaps the newest thing at knowledge is the capability now to say hey once those thresholds or cross why don't we reprogram the network dynamically so near realtor in real near-real-time we're actually able to take an action to reprogram the network based on some live feed that's what can information that we're receiving from the the various element that we have program either in the branch office or in a container level okay so today cotta containers is not something you're involved with or I didn't quite that cotta containers from the new high-level project from the the OpenStack foundation I don't know right now but but your customers are using container technology docker and various others we have an integration with kubernetes so we provide CNI they're absolutely involved there and this is how a lot of our customers are using us right now and the customers we're talking about these would often be service providers is that is that correct in the context of containers and kubernetes it would mainly be on the enterprise okay out of an agile type of development where they want to have a there's a lot of developer and they want to have the networking program and the same life cycle as the application project is rolling out and having the micro segmentation meaning that we are able to isolate each one of the project from one another so in if one gets contaminated the other one doesn't and so this is where a lot of the kubernetes and deployment has been on the on the large enterprise okay that makes sense because I'm trying to as a as a person outside the telecom industry but but following kind of the enterprise and OpenStack it's interesting to see this vision of the service providers who are not dumb pipes certainly but through OpenStack and these these the nfe and the services they are able to provision with folks like nuage you know able to provide services so just trying to figure out where the line you know maybe you could draw us a picture of you know what what the modern service provider will be able to provide versus what's still left then for the at the enterprise level depending on which market size analysis analyst you're looking at you know is depends VPN connectivity will be it it varies between two to six to eight to twelve it's a relatively contained small market compared to the applicator to manage applications right manage security that's tenfold that that market race so really as you said the the objective here if the service provider is not to to become a dumb virtual pipe and the ability to dynamically insert some value-added services over the top and this is what having an agile as the when now gives them the capability to say hold on a second I can now start serving a value-added application because my dynamic network is available now and this is this is what is fueling a lot of the OpenStack deployment right now in the datacenter yeah Charles one of discussions we've been looking at the last couple of years is there's OpenStack and then there's containers and kubernetes everything how do you see those go together what are you hearing from customers general discussion here but I'd love to hear some real-world so yeah in the context of ironic as we just mentioned a lot of the time the bare metal servers are actually deployed using OpenStack and what goes on top of it is actually kubernetes right and this is very common and it gives that isolation or its deploying a virtual machine running a pass platform in there right so so actually we do see the OpenStack to be used often to deploy the the infrastructure and program and provision I should say the infrastructure and whatever goes on top it could be kubernetes and work just a very nicely Charles you've been involved with OpenStack for many years I had this is how many OpenStack summits well probably eight and a weight or more yeah how are you seeing the OpenStack community evolved what do you I know you've just arrived which day one here at this summit you know beautiful Vancouver but in terms of the energy of the community the the people who are here it's a little bit smaller this year but it you know we've got people here are actual users and actual deployers so exactly yeah thoughts there so this is perhaps the well we went through a marketing height which is great however what I would say regardless of the event today in general the OpenStack community is a lot more mature it's a lot more stable as well and in the product and the product the technology at the community is more focused around solving real use cases and real problem couple years ago there was a lot of interest a lot of hype you know but it would have solve world world hunger as well right now I think it's very pointed very precise and I'm actually new I was quite proud to be participating in contributing in that community because we're starting to see the technology really addressing key key problems here all right Charles last thing I wanted to ask is the network sits in a very special place when you talk about really the multi cloud world that customers are talking about what are you seeing when it comes to that environment you know how do customers figure out where they put their applications are they moving you know things or is it just kind of a heterogeneous but still complicated world they're still figuring out that's right I mean that it's a very dynamic environment but I would say if I had to draw a conclusion most of the customers are deploying the application on-premise they like to have either for storage either for some of the governance they do I like to have applications on-premise however the multi cloud scenario is often used in large banks to compute or a large organization to compute on a burst capability right the capability to say hey I need to have X compute power available for X time is very appealing for them and this is how most of the deployment of nuage are used right now is having doing the plumbing the virtual plumbing inside a data center and dynamically based on demand the capability to do the same networking policy the same networking extension to one of the public cloud offering is very appealing because it sporadic it's a burst type of scenario yeah especially a lot of those service providers have that direct ability right as well correct correct and it you're right that it can become a little bit complex when you have when you want to to deploy nets with the same that's working policies across on-premise and multiple cloud provider and if you have interim service provider then it becomes a little bit complicated to have to orchestrate all of it and this is where Sdn gives them that hardware abstraction and and maintain the same networking policy well Charles Berlin appreciate the update on nuage and all of your viewpoints from from the customers that you're seeing my pleasure very very much for John Troyer I'm Stu Mittleman back with more coverage here at the open sex I'm at 2018 in Vancouver thanks for watching the Q [Music]

from Austin Texas it's the cube covering cube con and cloud native con 2017 brought to you by Red Hat the Lenox foundation and the cubes ecosystem partners welcome back to the cube Silicon angle media's two-day live production of KU con and cloud native con ops to minimun my co-host for the same segment is matt Probert happy to welcome back to the program clayton Coleman who's the architect of containerized application infrastructure with the red hat clayton great to see you it's great to see you too alright so first of all 4100 people you impressed I am I'm hugely impressed every year this gets bigger and bigger the community is out in force people building on top of kubernetes and in the cloud any ecosystem around it for us and it's it's really phenomenal yes so John Fourier interviewed you last year at the Seattle show I think it's what triple the size the number of projects are gone from four to 14 but at the core I mean it's kubernetes and you spend you know quite a lot of your time tell us you know what have you been working on the last year I know what was it what's important in your life well I think the biggest things that we've really tried to focus on are making kubernetes a good foundation for both a community as well as for a technology stack because kubernetes is about empowering developers it's about empowering operations teams and we always anticipated there to be many levels and many ways of building on top of Rene's to make it an ecosystem so that people can build and deploy software but other people besides us can succeed and I think that's more than anything else in the last year it's about ensuring that everyone besides the kubernetes community is successful not just kubernetes itself yeah it's interesting when we think back to like Linux it's you know Red Hat you did quite well with Linux also you know from the enterprise standpoint from from the company we appreciate what Red Hat had did to make sure that Linux could be used by everyone seems like a lot of you know similar themes that we see but how could you kind of compare good drives Linux versus kubernetes today it's interesting everyone is a lot more conscious of open source and the idea of building a platform because of the example of Linux and so we've tried to actually be pretty conscious about that which is we want there to be a strong community we want there to be a technical respect among not just the core of the project but also the different layers and the cloud the cloud native Foundation has actually done a really good job of bringing together mutually complementary technologies but also helping and support those communities from a RedHat perspective a lot of the things we work on our stability security reliability we also work on extension because extension to us allows us both to support customers but also to help the open source ecosystems that we depend on that I'm sorry just for audience can you explain what extension is sure extension is actually it's a number of things in kubernetes we really want you to be possible if we're gonna build in kubernetes things that make running applications easier we want everyone else to build their own tools that make it easier to run applications and we don't want to be opinionated and kind of the same way as maybe some other ecosystems about who gets to build what instead we want to open the doors for vendors for partners for deployers for individual users to build their own extensions and points of contact with kubernetes to really solve their own problems we can't solve all those problems but that plays really nicely into it right the cloud native foundation has gone from four projects to 14 that's right just a year and you're talking about the extensions what do you want people to take away from that proliferation of projects that are all being supported and seen as essential to the eCos kubernetes it takes the spectrum we want we want everyone to be able to use kubernetes and to use the other projects either independently on their own but I think a lot of us in the kubernetes community in the CN CF communities believe that a lot of these tools work really well together and finding new opportunities to make it easy to work together so Prometheus is a great example it's exploded across the ecosystem I think at the last cognitive con Prometheus was really the talk of the show and I think what I've seen is that a lot of people around the ecosystem not just in that core community on a very specific project I've taken the ideas that underlie that technology I tried to apply it to other things that they were doing so you see people building integrations into Prometheus you see in flux DB working with Prometheus to share data press a lot of really exciting cross collaboration and the end goal really is to make building and running applications easier which is something we really believe in as well all right you use the word a spectrum when you talk about users out there there's lots of them that are kind of in the 101 phase we know there's people doing things through production what are you seeing you know kind of the help us walk through some of the spectrum as to where customers are what you're seeing some of the big challenges that they're facing in spectrum really there's no other word because the range of people using kubernetes in production and development is so incredibly diverse I would say the two extremes are people who are today deploying micro services based production applications on public cloud and they're bringing you know three or four or ten or 100 applications it might be a two or three developer team and they're really finding a lot of value in that because kubernetes is taking a lot of the heavy lifting and they can rely on that to keep their applications running into rapidly deploy on the complete other end is giant corporations people with you know decades of investment in IT finding ways to use kubernetes and OpenShift which is the product that Red Hat ships around kubernetes to empower you know tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of applications and in those models kubernetes is just one small part of the larger hole and this is where ecosystem really comes into play in the middle I think we're starting to see a lot of really exciting things as people have the they've got their one team working together and they as they start reaching out and bringing other teams as companies grow as they say find more reasons to use kubernetes they start asking questions like well how do I have all these teams working together without impacting the other teams and that's where multi-tenancy that's a real specialty for Red Hat and OpenShift is multi-tenancy and we're actually really excited to work with people in the community to build out these technologies at many different levels to have you know kind of that spectrum tart to spread from the middle as well you know one of the things coming into this show you know the last year or two was like okay who's gonna win kind of the orchestration battle and it's like okay kubernetes you know here it is well now there's like 42 different providers you know open ship being one of them where does Red Hat you know look to add value to the customers is it just a piece of the platform how does Red Hat look at it and how to customers when do they come to you when do they say you know oh wait I'm just gonna go build all my own pieces and and use some of the Red Hat pieces I if working with open source and Linux has taught us anything it's that one of the key components of a successful story is a distribution the idea of curating making a few choices making it easy to bring things into that distribution and we've actually started to really apply the distribution mindset to kubernetes so if you look at openshift it is a platform it has two that help you run tens of thousands of applications together with tens of thousands of users to bring operational control but it's hard it's about taking the best technologies in the community and bringing them together and so I would actually expect over the next year or two to start seeing the idea of the distribution emerge in kubernetes in the cloud native ecosystem where you know we won't it's not ever gonna just be one company dominating open-source that's not how open-source works I would expect to see an effort at thinking about kubernetes is before the kernel if you will and bringing together all of the successful technologies like the ones that we've seen at cloud native con here today and bringing even more of them letting people mix and match to find the solutions that work for them I really like that view of a - because you're saying that the open source at its core is open and unup enya nated while distributions are an outlet to have opinion in refined business problems so how do you see that playing out a little bit there's always going to be some trade-off when you make choices for people and so I think the way that we look at it is we try to make choices that make sense when you're dealing at certain scales when long term support and life cycle becomes really critical you know if you can't afford a production outage because you have 10,000 applications running together then it becomes really important to focus on those but at the same time we actually expect there to be different choices and trade-offs to be made and we'll want to actually encourage people to mix and match the different parts of the ecosystem and what patterns are you seeing in enterprise readiness or any enterprise feature sets that are combining into what you hope to see out of the distribution at the heart of its security tends to come up a lot you know everybody everybody who's making the leap from we made the leap from bare metal to virtualization and then at a large number of management platforms grew to encompass it and virtualization brought its own changes containers were starting to mature and how we understand how the software lifecycle works with containers how it works in large multi-tenant environments I think the next step will be as we become more mature that a lot of these patterns will be baked in and so you'll see you know standard solutions we all kind of need to work together to make those standard solutions happen we're actually seeing that in a number of the things you know even today I'll talk about the CNC F conformance profile for kubernetes it's a new effort that intends to take the tests that we use in kubernetes to make sure it's working correctly and use that to say this is something that you can rely on every kubernetes distribution also supporting and just like any other mechanism that we use to make sure that we're delivering something that is stable and predictable across a wide number of spaces I would expect in the future to see things like conformance for multi-tenancy conformance for security specifically in cube and to see vendors bring their own approaches partners ecosystem players integrating their solutions and then new open-source solutions fitting into that as well the keynote this morning there were a lot of these projects you know getting to the next Rev Cooper net is gonna be a 1.9 many of the underlying kind of supporting pieces are hitting kind of the 1 dot Oh out there your top contributor for kubernetes what's that experience like today lots of new people still coming on how's the balance of kind of the you know few that are heavily involved versus kind of the majority when we started kubernetes it was a very there's an interesting mix it was a lot of engineers working on very concrete ideas things that we'd want to try to bring to fruition together in the community and it's been a very deliberate goal over the last two years to broaden that into a successful and healthy open-source ecosystem which means a lot of mentoring which means working to find the different ways that people can contribute in an ecosystem Sarah Novotny from Google often uses the chop wood carry water analogy there's many different ways that people can work together and everyone has a spot so we spent a lot of time being very deliberate about being open trying to organize ways for new contributors to get oriented and to bring their value but at the same time we actually want to mentor and grow the next level of technical leadership in kubernetes no I won't be here forever and I don't want to be here forever I want people to replace me in the open-source community because that's a healthy community yeah I think the stratification of contribution is one of the number-one signs of success from from my perspective and I see a distinct different invitation for each type of user so you have the user you have the administrator and then you also have a developer are there any things you've noticed changing in one of those patterns that like really hits home for you I think the developer pattern is the most interesting you know there's a lot of focus on how do you use kubernetes in many different ways and a lot of developers want to get their hands on and dig in and so there's actually been a lot of great community projects that are focused on making kubernetes easy to consume at a small scale all of that then ties back into well in kubernetes we want to be pretty opinion if we're going to be a kernel there needs to be a space for things like the compiler and the programming language distributions I'm actually hoping that we can keep that focus on making sure there's a good set of projects in the ecosystem that meat developers where they are so that they can start using kubernetes and then I don't want to say trick but trick them into becoming contributors and help us get that feedback about how we can make Rene's better helping to paint the fence is very fun that's right all right Clayton last question I have for you you're doing two keynotes this week give our audience that you know won't be there in person give us a taste for that and especially want to hear kind of the outlook for kind of the next 12 months through 2018 sure so my first keynote tomorrow is a just a real quick one I'm going to try and convince everybody that kubernetes should be boring and I'll leave it at that you know boring is good in very specific ways boring equals mature right I would certainly hope so and on Friday I'm gonna talk about what's coming up in the kubernetes ecosystem in 2018 a lot of people have finally jumped on board the kubernetes bandwagon and what I'd like to do is kind of help people find those exciting projects to get involved with if if we're gonna have a vibrant ecosystem and community helping people understand where they can get involved and to find the things that match their interest is going to be really important okay anything specific that you're super excited about looking forward to next year or any project or I've got to say and this is not a it's not a company line but sto is incredibly exciting because one of our goals with kubernetes was always about making it easier to run applications and sto and the idea of service mesh is taking that to the next level and I actually hope to see even more projects like that over the next few years in the ecosystem that solve things like server lists and databases of service and I think we're actually starting to really see that develop yeah well companies are all looking to move faster get those applications up and running this do definitely one of the ones we heard buzzing before the show Clayton Coleman thanks so much for joining us again hope to catch up with you again soon for metroburg I'm Stu Mittleman we'll be back with lots more coverage here from the cubes coverage of KU con and cloud native con 2017 here in Austin Texas you're watching the Q you

(electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE, covering DockercCon 2017. Brought to you by Docker and support from Asseco System Partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, I'm Stu Mittleman, with my co-host, Jim Kobielus. Happy to have on the program, I'm shocked to say a first time guest. Someone that I've known in the community here for many years, but Michael Ducy, who is Director of Product Marketing at Chef Software. Not a chef. Maybe you might-- >> Not a chef, although I do cook at home (laughing). >> Maybe in Chef. Not a puppeteer. >> Not a puppeteer. >> But you work for Chef Software. So thank you so much for joining us. >> Yes, thanks for having me. >> Alright, so Michael, for the audience that doesn't know you... I think a lot of people here in the community would know you. I've known you through Twitter for many years. What's your role at Chef? What do you work on? What's your passion? >> Sure, so right now I do product marketing for our open source projects. So Chef Software actually has a commercial product, and then we also have three open source projects that we maintain. The first was the original one that we're named after, which is Chef, which is open source automation or configuration management. The second one being Inspect, which is all about how do you basically write compliance rules as code. And then third one, as you can see from my shirt, is called Habitat. So Habitat is a new way of thinking about how do you package up automation for your application. And then how can you easily export that application and the automation into something like a container. I've had various roles at Chef though over the four years that I've worked for them. My passion's always kind of been open source communities, an involvement in open source communities and helping grow those communities. >> Yeah, and people send you lots of stuff about goats. >> People send me lots of stuff about goats (laughing). There was a joke that was made at a conference about waking up next to a goat. This was a conference in Amsterdam, which is I'm sure I wouldn't be the first one that woke up next to a goat in Amsterdam (laughing). But since then, the whole goat thing kind of took off after that. >> Yeah, so, Chef, you understand many things about Docker. So one of the things, we come in and we talk about there's Docker, the company, there's Docker, the community. A lot of what was talked about in the keynote today was about open source. >> Umm-hmm. >> So how's Docker doing? What interested you in the keynote? How do you as an individual in Chef see what's going on in the Docker ecosystem? And what do you think? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So we've been put in a little bit of an interesting position as Chef, the company. And not only has Chef, the company, been put in this position, but all of our competitors have as well. So there's been a movement as Docker and containers got more popular that the idea that configuration management is no longer needed. And from a inside the container perspective, configuration management really isn't needed. But what you do end up realizing is that there's this whole idea of what you need to actually run a container in production effectively, that still needs to go into that container. And we kind of call it The Learning Cliff of Containers. And I tweeted out an image about... that why co-worker draw on a whiteboard. That shows in development you just have Docker and it's really easy, but then when you move it to production there's this whole other stack of concerns. And Docker or your container runtime is just one of them. And so, we've been focusing more on kind of shifting into those ideas of how do you actually run containers effectively in production. What we saw in the keynote today is more of an emphasis on things like security, right. That's definitely been an area that we're interested in, especially from a compliance perspective, and doing work around having our open source projects, being able to scan containers for compliance. >> Yeah, it's funny before the keynote they have this fun little thing. They have this 8-bit video game playing. >> Right. >> And it was like they were collecting coins and they were leveling up, but they kept hitting lots of bombs (laughing) and things were exploding all the time. And everybody was joking online. It was like, Oh, it's like putting Docker in production. I will level up (laughing) and I will get past everything, but, Boy, I'm going to have lots of bombs going off and things-- >> Sure. >> And things that I'll have to deal with, and there were lots of fun little comments that they threw out there. It's like, Checking documentation. Oh, documentation says you don't have documentation. (laughing) So just fun stuff like that. But it's challenging. Solomon says, We want this put in deployment, but as we know it's not quite there yet. There's lots of things, that's where you guys fit in. >> Umm-hmm. >> A lot of the ecosystem helps to solidify that about you here. >> Michael, what are those concerns that you allude to? There's security, and what other concerns are there for containers in production that need to be represented in the configuration management portfolio or profile you're describing? >> Sure, so there's the security aspects of it is focused on what vulnerabilities are in your container. >> Yeah. >> And there's been some interesting studies recently that showed 24% of the official images are shipping with some sort of a vulnerability. Some of that you have to accept, and then also realize can you do risk mitigation around that vulnerability. There's concerns about how the application is actually configured when you ship it as well. So am I doing things like storing secrets in config files. Am I disabling versions of ISOCELL that's no longer a best practice anymore because it's actually broken. And then there's other aspects around how do you things like service discovery, how do you do credentials or secrets. And how do you get them into the container securely. There's networking aspects. There's last malconfiguration of the application, so-- >> Right. >> If you take a container from one environment to another environment and kind of work it through a lifecycle. There are things at runtime that you have to change in its configuration to make it run in that particular environment. >> Right. >> So it's all of those little knobs that you still have to turn. And that's why-- >> The entire DevOps lifecycle essentially there's all those little knobs and... >> There's all these little knobs and this has always been a little bit of a frustration for me, in that PaaS sounds great, platform as a service sounds great. And this idea that you can just take this blob and go run it. But What people don't realize is there still are tons of knobs that you have to turn, and there are tons of concerns that you have to worry about as an operations person or as a DevOps person or as a developer when you actually are taking that code into production. >> Right. >> Michael, we've seen the cloud providers and some of the other open source providers kind of chipping away. Red Hat bought Ansible, every time I go to Amazon re:Invent or Google, it seems like they're trying to build more things up the stack and into their platforms. >> Umm-hmm. >> So what is Chef's position here? How do you guys play across all these environments and kind of maintain and grow what you're doing? >> Yeah, so we've started to take a little bit more of a different focus and... Well, not a different focus... A different focus for us. Traditionally, we focus on infrastructure and operations people and then as we moved up the stack and DevOps became more popular. We definitely focused on that because that's kind of our bread and butter. But what we started to do with Habitat is focus more on building a developer experience. So how can a developer take their code-- >> Yeah. >> Easily wrap automation around it, and then ship it out into production. And this is the new world for us, as coming from the operations side of things. And really starting to think about what does the developer tooling look like and the developer experience look like. We're taking source code, building that source code, and then deploying that source code to production. >> Yeah, and it's interesting, it sounds... We talk about Docker. They very much started out in the developer world, and then they're kind of moving to kind of the Op side more. >> Umm-hmm. >> And to the enterprise side more. You're almost going-- >> Michael: And we're kind of-- >> A little bit in reverse, huh. >> Yeah, going a little bit in reverse, yeah. >> Yeah, it's interesting because usually it's like, Okay, I start with developers, get them excited and then figure out to monetize. So, yeah, what are you seeing in your customer base? >> Sure. >> Who do you sell to in that aspect? Yeah, I'm just curiosity at some of the buyers. >> Well, so, traditionally, a tool like Chef or, even some of our competitors would be bought by what's called the Shared Services Team, right. And that Shared Services Team is going to take that and try and work economies of scale, right. And try and deploy that across all of the different BMs or machines that they have to manage, right. And we've seen this shift as we moved more up the stack and as the industry's shifted more up the stack. Of what the Shared Services Team actually needs to transform themselves into is more of a developer services team. So how can I offer the services that a developer can get via an API, to quickly deploy the application services that they need. And when I say application services, I'm thinking about all of the things that you need to actually go and persist the data. The business logic side of things are very easy to do in containers or PaaS. But when you're actually having to go and persist data in something like Red-S are Mongo or MySQL, that's a whole other area of concern that you have to worry about. So what we've actually had started to do is the core team that actually works on Habitat has a very, very big background in distributive systems. So what we've started to do is bake a lot of that foundational ideas about how you effectively run large-scale distributive systems into Habitat, which makes it very easy to then go and take that developer, take their source code, and deploy it using Habitat, using this knowledge that we have from distributive systems. So we actually see it as a benefit that we come from this infrastructure background because we have experience of actually running things in production, right. >> Umm-hmm, what do you see as some of the challenges that we still need to face in this kind of container ecosystem? I know one of the questions I have coming in is you talked about stateful applications. We know storage still needs some time to mature. Networking seems to be a little bit further along in what they're doing. >> Umm-hmm. >> What's your take as to what's doing well? What still needs some more work? >> Yeah, storage is one of those areas that... And persisting data is one of those areas that we're not able to get around, right. And if you look at some people's recommendations, so Pivotal, for example, recommends running persistent services on BMs, right. If you look at the Google approach or the Cuber-netee's approach, they actually recommend that you use a cloud provider services to go and run those data services for you, until you think you're good enough to actually go and run it like Google. (laughing) And they're also hedging on the fact that you'll probably never be good enough to run it like Google. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So, kind of building that expertise of running those distributive systems in an effective way is kind of the area in running those persistent data services in a highly scalable way is kind of the big challenge that operations still hasn't figured out. And developers also need work to... Need help to help figure that out as well. >> Yeah, the big theme this morning was really about scalability. When you talked to customers, what does scale mean to them? What are the limitations they're having? I loved when you talked about what you're doing with Habitat. Helping customers, so that they don't have to have the expertise to build distributive systems because that's the software challenge of our time-- >> Yeah. >> Is moving to that. What we talk at Wicky-bon, it's moving from the old enterprise where it was like kind of baked in the hardware to a distributive, where the software model, anything had failed, there's no single point of failure, I can scale. >> Yeah. >> What do you think? >> Well, to kind of paraphrase our CTO, Adam Jacob, he always likes to say ignore scaling problems because you don't have a scaling problem. (laughing) And you don't have a scaling problem until you have a scaling problem, right. So if you kind of look at where your time's most effectively spent, your time is more effectively spent at actually building an application that people want to use, and worry about the scaling problem when the scaling problem comes up, right. And the other thing is that you might never hit that scaling problem, so everyone wants to be the next Uber, everyone wants to be the next Netflix, and so forth. And so, if you go in as a startup or, even a startup inside of a large enterprise trying to do a new application. If you start by trying to solve the scaling problem out the door, then what you end up losing is a lot of development cycles that you could actually be spending on building something that people actually want to use. And then worrying about the scaling problem when you hit the scaling problem. >> So, Mike, last question I have for you. A month from now, you're going to be back in Austin. >> A month from now, I'm going to be back in Austin. >> So tell us about ChefConf. >> Yes. >> What can people expect? Give us a compare and contrast to kind of the communities, the type of people that attend. I expect we'll see more shorts because it's going to be a little bit warmer and more humid here in Austin (laughing). >> Yes, so we're back at Austin for the second ChefConf in Austin. We were here also last year. We were in Austin in July last year. >> Ooooh. >> Which was not a fun experience (laughing). The air conditioning was very nice. The pool was also very nice. (laughing) But what you can expect is more practical advice to how to actually run these things in production. We have a lot of talks about Habitat. I think we're going to have a lot... Nine talks on Habitat. We have a lot of talks from the Chef community about running actual systems in production in a lot of real world experience, which is something that we always try and hover into our conferences. We also have a day that's going to be focused on our open source community as well, so where our open source and contributors can get together to talk about problems that they're trying to solve in our open source communities as well. And then on the last day, of course, as every conference does we're going to have a hack day, where you can contribute to open source, our open source, or we can help you get started solving a problem that you have, but there'll be a lot of people there that can answer questions for you about the problems that you're trying to solve in running distributive systems. >> Alright, well, Michael Ducy, happy to welcoming you into the ranks of theCUBE alumni, finally. >> Yes, finally, thank you very much. >> And thank you for sharing all the updates with us. And thank you for watching theCUBE. (electronic music) >> I remember...

why from Las Vegas Nevada it's the queue covers AWS reinvent 2016 brought to you by AWS and its ecosystem partners now here your host John Fourier and Stu Mittleman he welcome back everyone we are here live in Las Vegas for Amazon Web Services AWS reinvent 2016 their annual user developer conference I'm John furry with silicon angle Joe and Mike Coast give me a minute with boogie bond it's the cube our flagship program when we go out to the events and extract the signal noise and right now we have some really hot signal it's Andy jassie CEO of Amazon Web Services welcome back to the cube great to see you cube alumni three years in a row now you've been on the cube great to have you back keep the tradition going thanks for coming on it's great to be here and I wanted to congratulate you on your 29th birthday today I wish I'm eighteen actually you're gonna go that way I'll never get over eighteen okay appreciate that appreciate the merry Cammarata bringing the cake out for the team but what a birthday present for us to be at the cube this year because you guys have celebrate your 10 year birthday a little bit younger than I am but the world has changed in the past five years we sat down at your house and in your sports bar talked about the future and that's all on Silk'n angle comm and Forbes magazine calm but you guys have to set the agenda and 32,000 people up from 19,000 it's a significant uptick in attendance the enterprise cloud market is changing you guys are disrupting yeah your thoughts and on what's happened since Tuesday night with James Hamilton laying up a secret sauce of silicon brows back it's not being touched by anybody else efficiencies scale yeah well you know for us it's it's unbelievable to see how many people are here a reinvent I as I said in the keynote yesterday we weren't sure the first year that we could get 4,000 people to come so to have 32,000 people here and 50,000 more on our live streams for the keynotes it's just it's really inspiring and you know our teams spend most their time thinking about new new customer experiences new features new capabilities that enable our customers to build more for their customers and then operating the services and for our team to have a chance to be here with all of our customers for a week and just see how excited people are about what we're doing the platform I mean you really feel it when you're here it's a movement and it's a movement because it allows builders to build customer experiences much quicker than ever before and change their businesses you guys got a spy nose juice got some specific questions on some specific points but I want to get your thoughts on the Amazon what I call spring in your step for the first time at reinvent have seen some bravado but more you know confidence around thinking a position Vernor Vogel said a Mediate that sometimes doesn't understand things or hey why do I want to get a lower price by doubling upfront enough seeing the sales guy you mentioning a little bit of Oracle and but mainly it's the themes around the old garden and a new way so I want you to take a minute to explain your view on this new way this new environment because you're comparing interesting old ways of doing things how people buy from IP suppliers how technology is coded deployed and this new way where the game is all new ballgame everywhere scale changes in how people buy our changing it can you share your thoughts on this new way yeah well that's a I mean there's so much that we could share in that area but I you know I think that if you think about what's different about a company like Amazon and a business like AWS relative to the companies who've been providing infrastructure for the last few decades there are a lot of differences but I'll list a few you know the first is I think many companies talk about being customer focused very few walk and I think Amazon in every business including AWS is extraordinarily customer focused everything we do starts with the customer moves backwards from there 90% of our roadmap but what we build is driven by what customers tell us matters and the other 10% we try to listen to a customer's of trying to articulate and then read in between the lines and invent on their behalf I'd say most of the big technology companies the old guard our competitor focused and that could be a successful strategy they can wait and see what others are gonna do and then try to one-up them it's just not ours we tend to be customer focused second thing is we are pioneers you know we we hire builders who look at customer experiences and see what's wrong with them and then figure out how to reinvent them most of the old guard technology companies have lost their will and their DNA to invent and so they acquire most their innovation and that can work too but I think in a space as dynamic as the cloud which is the biggest technology shift in our lifetime you are much better off with the partner that has the most functionality that's iterating the fastest the most amount of customers the biggest ecosystem who's had the vision for how these things fit together from the start and then the third thing I'd say is that we are unusually long-term oriented you know I think one of the standard old guard tactics is that when a deal is to be done at the end of the quarter or the end of the year they show up at your doorstep and they harass you till you sign a deal only to be heard from again a few years from now well you actually need to sign a new deal that is not the way that we pursue our business we're trying to build a business and instead of customer relationships that lasts all of us and so we operate we treat customers we think long term and we iterate in a different way than you see the old guard do and you wrote the business case for creating AWS I think if somebody you know wrote the case study today they you talk about the flywheel you talk about the effect that scale has on your business I think many look at it is your scale and that flywheel allowed you to kind of compress margins in the industry overall well you know you know right the next business case that was scale let's kind of say if margin and you know you talked about how the race to zero wasn't it beyond kind of ancho piece of scale what is the advantage that you have with the experience and the scale and you know is there a new flywheel that goes beyond what we've been talking about well you know I think that there will be multiple successful players in this space because the market segments is something like AWS addresses are trillions of dollars worldwide but there are gonna be 30 it's gonna be a small handful and it's in part because scale really matters and in part because the amount of functionality that you need for people to choose you as their primary infrastructure technology platform is massive and we have a lot more functionality by a large amount than anybody else now I think that if you look at a couple of the key criteria and reasons that we've been successful one of them is that we just have iterated so quickly I mean I think that the rate at which we deliver new capabilities for customers is pretty unusual I mean every day on average customers wake up and they have three new capabilities they can take advantage of just by virtue of being on the platform but we're also on top of just delivering quickly we're innovating at a really rapid rate I mean look at what we did in building the no sequel database DynamoDB they would build look at what we did in building our own database engineer Aurora which is the fastest growing service in the history of AWS we just made Postgres compatible yesterday look at what we announced on the IOT side yesterday with green grass and with snowball edge look at what we did even with snowmobile where it's been impossible for companies to move large amounts of data look at how many instances we have and then look at us bringing FPGA instances to the client the pace of raw innovation on the AWS platform is very unusual and I think what that does that creates its own flywheel where because you don't have to spend a hundred million dollars upfront to buy an infrastructure platform you only pay for what you use when you make the choice of who you're gonna partner with is your primary infrastructure platform you want the platform the the most capability because it allows you not just to move your existing apps but to be able to launch new ones and any any imaginable business idea you have so one of the advantages Amazon has had both on that the dot-com side and now in the it beside it your data you've got a lot of information I think about what actually said that's part of a new flywheel that you're gonna be doing how much of that data is just what Amazon's gonna be able to drive and how much will that kind of spread to the ecosystem and your customers is there data exchanges or how do you look at data well we certainly have a lot of data and a lot of models and a lot of deep learning capabilities and we expose several of those to the AI services we housed yesterday but I think one of the significant flywheels you'll see over times that so many customers are storing their data inside of AWS because they love our storage services and our data stores that they're gonna want to use that data and they're gonna want to layer on top of it all kinds of analytics services whether it's batch whether it's you know various hadoop applications whether it's real-time processing of streaming data they're gonna want to run their data warehouse off of it and they're gonna want to run machine learning models as well as their AI models on top of it and even though I think loads and loads of companies will use the AI services that we've released yesterday I think a lot of the biggest machine learning that's gonna happen is company's own data companies have huge amounts of data that they want to get better signal from and a lot of that data lives on AWS and they're gonna use a lot of the analytics and machine learning tools that we have to get more value from it and you want to ask you specifically around the cloud competition we've said on the queue I think for you so at the first main event that we were here it's not a winner-take-all to winner take most the multi cloud conversations been going around and that's been kind of confusing people as well one of my goals this year at the reinvent was to look at the VCS dig deep once all the parties talk to entrepreneurs I wanted to find out from the canary in the coalmine the startups the developers what their their sense was they all love AWS because you you had a great service for them but now as the competition comes in Microsoft in particular spending a lot of dough trying to lure them in through their ecosystem Google mean they just have some tech not a lot of Salesforce these terms want to build their own sales forces and might not want to compete with Oracle or or Microsoft together monsters Salesforce massive commission incentives all kinds of mechanics that they're doing in the day and that product may or may not be as strong as you guys what's your message to that group of people that want to win with you what do you say to those guys on how do you look at that and what are the how do you respond to their feedback and what's the outlook for them because that's a big question of people's mind is I love Amazon I want to win with them but I might be lured by well you know I think if you look at the startup market segment the vast majority of startups continue you choose AWS as their provider and in fact you could argue an even larger share than before and the reasons are a few fold number one at the end of the day what startups want is they're trying to build incredible businesses and they're often trying to build businesses where the idea never existed before and to do that well you need the broadest functionality you can get Native US has much broader functionality with anybody else there's also a much larger ecosystem around our platform so if you actually want to use other software in your business you want to be able to use it on the infrastructure technology platform that you choose and again many more info system providers in the ad avails platform but they also are building applications where even though they're startups these security and the availability those applications are a big deal and there's just a lot more maturity in the AWS platform because we've been at it a lot longer you can't learn some of those lessons until you get two different elbows of the curve and as Gardner has said because AWS has several times the aggregate size so the next 14 providers combined we just have a different scale on a different set of lessons now we also help our startups and we go to market with our startups and we have get in front of our customers we have a lot of enterprise customers on the platform we're super interested in the new technology and the new offerings that our startups have and we continue to put them in front of saying at obviously Google obviously that's on the cube actually this morning Google doesn't really have a sales force now not known for customer engagement they're known for technology and I kind of hinted that Amazon doesn't have many sales guys but you do apparently a lot of simple you talk about the number how many sales people what's the field organization look like and he clarified that potential misconception that Amazon is just a self-service cloud well when we launched AWS in 2006 we had two sales people and in fact one of the first calls our first sales person made was to Tom McCaskill is the CEO SmugMug who has been just an incredible customer of AWS and provided so much valuable feedback and the ten and a half years we've been to the market but since then we have a very large field team I mean this is this is not a small team it's a very large field team with a lot of sellers and a lot of solutions architects and a large process yeah I mean it's it's it's you know we don't disclose the exact number but it's thousands it's it's a significant team sellers solutions architects professional services training certification it's a big team and we're continuing to grow at a very rapid rate yeah Andy you know that rapid rate is amazing to watch because you know you've spoken to us before about you look for builders you look for people that you know want challenges and keep learning I've talked to you know a few friends this week that have joined Amazon and they said the culture is different in a good way and I want you to talk about kind of that Amazon ethos there's you know a lot of companies have like mission statements you guys have leadership principles that are up on your website I hear they are you know quoted quite regularly you know in in daily life and it's you know very different can maybe there's a little bit of insight on that well 14 leadership principles and I think they've been the single most important reason that we have been able to scale as fast as we have and scale across the world the way we have without losing our culture and you know there are so many of the leadership principles that I think are really interesting you know one of them has to do with hiring and developing the best and we are really vigilant about not lowering the bar when you're trying to hire as many people as we are at Amazon and AW is a big temptation is just a lower the bar to allow you to move quickly and that's always a mistake when you're trying to build great products for customers I like you know I'll give you a couple the leadership principles I like one is the leadership principle that's being right a lot and when we first started when we rolled out the leadership principles people thought being right a lot meant that it had to be their idea they had at the start that she went with the people would get dug in and argue for their idea but being a leader and being write a lot means that you get to the right answer regardless of whose idea was at the beginning and regardless of how many times you change your mind along the way great leaders change their minds when they get new information so I really like that leadership principle I also really like have backbone disagreeing commit and so what that leadership principle is about is we don't just make it an option we expect employees if they disagree with the direction we're headed regardless of seniority of anybody in the room that they speak up and say we're going the wrong direction we're doing the wrong thing for customers even if we end up making the same decision we're gonna make before we end up with more rigor and the decision and people can argue too you know as long as they want as respectfully as they as they can in making the point and we're at the end of the day a truth-seeking culture so you know that old adage about two people look at a ceiling and one says it's ten feet and the other says it's 14 feet and they say okay let's compromise it's 12 feet what's very rarely twelve feet and so when you have a truth-seeking culture like we have it encourages people to disagree and debate with one but then once we make a decision yeah the disagreeing commit means that even if it's not the direction you were advocating everybody has to get him seeking argument you could say well if the customers not involve which version of the truth the customer has to calibrate that right I mean from here Stanfill ultimately the cut I mean we try to get customers involved the decisions we're making and we we speak to cus for input from customers yeah and we get input all the time but there are also times when you're making these decisions where you can't perfectly know we're trying to make what we think is the right decision for customers we get it right a lot of the time and sometimes we don't and if we don't then we'll learn from it sign here I gotta get this in but I gotta ask you a personal question do you get worried that you guys might get too cocky I mean right now you're on a great run rate the traction is amazing for me personally see it it's pretty stuff you know proud about you guys do this I'm a big fan as you know we're customer but you do a great work how do you guys not get too cocky what's that ethos what do you guys what do you say the customers would say it a little too big for your britches and Ian team how do you calibrate that I think that a lot of that has to do with the culture of the team and I think if you look at the culture of this team it is not a cocky team it's not an arrogant team it's a customer focused team and we I mean I think we're pretty thrilled with how things have gone the first 10 and a half years I don't think any of us would have had the audacity to predict yeah that would be where we are but I think we all know that the next 10 years are gonna have even more innovation and changed in the first 10 years so that's what we're really focused on and you know one another one of our leadership principles says that you know great leaders don't believe that their body odor doesn't stink you know and that's really intended to say that we recognize that there's all kinds of things that we can be doing better yeah and we have to be a constantly learning organization and that's the way we think about our business we have a lot of management style content on silca Daniel my third part of my three-part series with Andy final question I want you to summarize your you know really well done you had some nice clever confident in there the whole superpowers a bombastic claim with some that validated with some meat good very clever I like how you did that how would you summarize the keynote did the boy look down to what you were trying to accomplish what were you trying to convey what was the core theme of your keynote yesterday morning yeah the core theme really is that with the cloud with AWS builders have capabilities that were never before available to them on premises or elsewhere and with those capabilities or superpowers it allows them really to take on any technical challenge that they're facing and to build and implement any idea they can dream up and you know that was really the theme and then you know sprinkled in there we had a few announcements the 14 to be precise yesterday and then some customers who I think you know I think are really vivid illustrations of really reinventing their businesses and building customer experiences that weren't easily possible before doing it on top of AWS well congratulations on all your success I know it's still early I know I know you don't get to coffee knowing knowing you firstly after after the little sitting down with you and reinventing is about pioneering so you got to be humble and congratulations Andy Jesse the CEO of Amazon Web Services here in the cube I'm Sean for Ace to many are you watching Silicon angles the cube we right back with more live coverage of ABS 2016 reinvent after this short break