>>Welcome back to HP discover 2021 the virtual version. My name is Dave Volonte and you're watching the cube. We're here with Manav said Donna, who is the global head of sales and market development for cognitive business operations at Tata consultancy services Tcs. And we're gonna dig in to digital transformation and take a deeper dive into the customer journeys. Welcome Manav, >>thank you. Dave, thank you for inviting me to this. Uh appreciate and looking forward to have an intriguing dialogue. You Me too. >>Me too. I mean we talk about digital transformation all the time prior to the pandemic. You know, a lot of it was kind of buzz wordy um and there's a lot of complacency around it. But as we know if you weren't digital during the pandemic you're out of business but people were forced into it. They were rushed into I called the force marched the digital so you really didn't have time to be planned full. And now people are stepping back and saying, okay now we have an opportunity to get digital right and put that in air quotes. How do you think about digital transformation? What do you mean by that? >>Okay, see I think uh the way we look at it at this, yes, I will, I will probably take a step back where in um while the digital transformation has been in play, not just over the last year since the pandemic began, but um even before then uh where the shift uh in the customer organization that we have been seeing is largely from being product centric to be purpose centric, wherein the whole focus of the entire existence is to be able to serve the purpose for their consumers, their customers and so on and so forth. And and if you look at it, for example, total energies right? The looking to sell or produce fuel. They are looking to be responsible energy company producing, reliable, affordable and clean energy for the consumers. Right? Similarly, there are other examples damaged shipyards who are looking to be more of a maritime solutions provider rather than just a shipbuilding company. Uh, so, so what's really happening when the purpose is being the driving force behind any organizations agenda or even reason of existence? That purpose is actually the driving force also followed the digital transformation. That is basically shifting the pace of the way businesses are looking to drive consumer experiences, time to market and so on, so forth. Right? And if you see our we launched our new brand positioning in the last quarter, that's building on belief and and that's basically centered around this whole purpose driven mindset. What that means is that we believe that and then the technology is enabling digital transformation are going to be the pillar of the whole shift of the re imagination of the business models wearing businesses are coming together across industries and driven by the key goal of serving the customer in terms of driving the enhanced experience rather than just selling a product. So that's basically is really happening. And having said that now in the last year or so, what pandemic has done is basically accelerated the pace by a condom. Deep right? So so in that sense, some of the organizations that were not ready at that point, they are also kind of transformation and and and taking that leap frog, I would say so from that perspective and going by again by our brand positioning statement, building on belief, right? That's really helping towards that pretty good thing, the overall journey, three horizon business and I'll come to that in a minute, but I hope it is answering your question of what digital transformation and how pandemic has really helped it. >>I just want to get 1 um point of clarification you said and you cut out there for a second, you said go from product centric too, >>but to centric >>platform centric, got it, >>but centric >>purpose centric uh building on belief, got it. Okay, so something else you said they picked up on, you talked about um actually you know crossing industries and this is something that's new and that's enabled by digital. I want to get your thoughts on it. I mean if you look at industry structures historically, whether it's manufacturing or automotive or financial services or healthcare or media and entertainment, whatever it is, there was a value chain, there is a value chain that's built up in that business might be uh it might be R. And D. Sales and marketing, service, manufacturing, etcetera. And if you are in that industry, you largely stayed in that industry forever. And now you're seeing these, a lot of big company, a lot of big tech companies having a dual disruption agenda, not only horizontally to from a technical standpoint, but you're seeing amazon get into grocery, you know, they're they're buying studios, you're seeing your Apple get into finance. And so the enabler is data in digital and that talks to the business model re imagination that you're talking about. >>Absolutely and absolutely exactly what is happening, that's what I'm really talking about. And we are firmly believing that boundaries or those boundaries are going to be blood even more so going forward, as I took a few examples and you also talked about Apple, or or even amazon all the for example. Right, so all these technology companies are just being disrupted. So, having, having said that, that data being the new fuel at the same time, Cloud being the new er now cloud as a technology that is enabling the business model. Re imagination is not just on the outside, but also on the red side. And and that's where the boundaries are becoming so closer between edge and the cloud. And how how do we give that flexibility for to the customers, to people to adopt those digital technologies across the enterprise? Right. That's what, that's what the ship that we have been seeing. >>How do you see ecosystems playing in this? I mean it's kind of, I know it's an overused term but it seems to me to be increasingly important, its power of many versus the resources of one or a few. How do you see ecosystems driving? You know, this, this purpose driven business you talk about? >>Um very, very closely I would say, and I'll give you examples also in that sense. Right faster. Um if I talk about the journey I mentioned briefly earlier about three horizon based journey, right. The first and foremost being the setting up the digital foundation that basically could be through the combination of cloud, iOT analytics, artificial intelligence and so on so forth. Right? And then eventually moving on to re imagination of business models and then leveraging the purpose led ecosystem. Now in the Horizon one, when we are setting up the digital foundation, that is where the whole ecosystem comes into play. Where and where and if I talk about our co innovation network partners like HP, where we are working together to really bring in that flexibility for the customers, even in on premise environment, giving them that kind of uh features that they can experience also in the cloud to be really able to leverage the whole our beat at the edge or in the cloud. So that's where the kind of ecosystem coming together and and and those are also some of the challenges that we have seen that customers are facing today to be able to achieve the first horizon in that journey. The challenges like accelerated or all the time to market challenges. Like are they able to achieve the flexibility to be able to offer to the business and and challenges? Like are they able to achieve transformation at scale or is it just appointed um pointed poc sort of thing? Right so bringing the ecosystem together is able to help customers address those challenges, be it in terms of consumption driven, addressing the flexibility needs, be it in terms of the pre integrated solutions addressing the challenges related to time to market and so on and so forth. >>Can we stay on? The challenges for a minute? As I said, pre pandemic, there was a lot of complacency. We've all seen that meme of the wrecking ball coming in and kind of a tongue in cheek joke, but but the complacency is gone, so so there's there also, but still organizational challenges. It's not complacency anymore, but what's the right regime? What's the right approach? Uh everybody wants to get digital right, but a lot of people, you know, that's a do you see that as a challenge? Actually, not knowing where to prioritize it and you know, how can you help in that regard? >>Yeah, So, and I would also like to like to talk about what we have done in in certain with certain customer with challenges. Um some of the things I'll introduce TCS Cognex here, this is our platform which basically brings together the capabilities in a pre integrated uh, for, of predefined solutions accelerators of our value builders as we call it, um, for customers to be able to just integrate their environments to be able to manage the whole infrastructure or of the landscape in a completely automated and analytics driven manner. Right, so that's that's one way of addressing those challenges. What it also does is it gives that um power to the stakeholders in the organization to be able to address the key challenge of time to market because it is giving out or coming out in a pre integrated manner and be able to achieve that benefits or realize the benefits of transformation In in an accelerated time frame instead of waiting for 18-24 months, how can it be done in 3-6 months, for example. Right. That's that's that's one set and and similarly, uh if I talk about the flexibility, right, consumption driven manner is extremely, extremely important. And if I talk about hybrid cloud, so to say right today, About 1-2% of the on premise infrastructure is actually in a consumption driven manner while cloud is always gonna consumption to a manner. The trends that we're seeing is that by next year about minimum 15% of the on premise infrastructure in a hybrid cloud environment will be about or will be delivering a consumption-driven manner and and that's what is going to address the various the opportunity as well as the challenge to address that particular aspect of flexibility and that's where the ecosystem with the likes of us, teachers and HP coming together to provide solutions that are addressing those needs of our consumers. >>And when you talk about the consumption driven, obviously talking about things like HP Green Lake, that's a model that enables that kind of consumption model. You know, I feel like, I mean, I feel like that's kind of table stakes to be honest with, you, pointed out 1 to 2% of it. I said wow, clouds been around for a long time and now, but now we're seeing the rapid adoption 15% and we're also seeing, I mean I think I'll give H PE some props on this because they've got their whole company behind it, but there has to be a complimentary shift in the mindset of OK, we're not now selling boxes anymore and I think HP has done a pretty good job of this. They've made some announcements recently to that effect. They're doing an HPC. We just saw some storage announcements, so it's no longer, hey, here's a box to sell it and this is where a company like Tcs comes to play. You, you've, you've never had that box mentality, you have a solutions mentality and so, so the industry is moving in a very rapid pace now. My question is, are the customers ready for it? Are they ready for it? Because they have the cloud experience, are they ready for it on prem and what do they need to do to get ready for that? >>See um, to answer your first question already and what really is the trigger point for them being ready? The answer is yes. Okay. Um, I would say a large percentage of the customer base was ready even before pandemic, but pandemic has really made it even more prominent in the customer and that has become a need. We are seeing so many customers today. I mean, uh, in my global role, I'm seeing across industries and across markets right from north America to Australia Japan. We're in, we're in the need for having consumption. Everyone is even at on premise while cloud is definitely there, but even at on premise is so much so that really is the trigger um, at the same time now what is really driving that trigger apart from pandemic is to be able to offer that flexibility to their business. Businesses are basically reimagining, reimagining their whole uh where they are reaching out to their customers, where they are expanding into the newer markets and the speed is extremely, extremely important and that's what is really being the whole consumption, let's >>peel the onion on that. Somebody asked me this the other day why why as reserves. I said the same thing, flexibility and they're like, yeah, okay, but give me some examples. And so I said, well, first of all, they're paying by the drink. So it's a much fairer for the customer model instead of okay, charge them for what they're not even going to use or what they might use for a day or two or a month. The other is experimentation. It just seems to me that in the digital world you got to fail fast, You don't know, you don't know what, you don't know. And so these consumption models allow you to spin up experiments very quickly and cheaply and only pay for what you use is, am I, am I getting that right? >>Absolutely, Absolutely. And and and that that's exactly what the model is, that we as uh as a partner together, that we are offering. Only one thing that I would want to highlight here is, um while that's the foundation, as I said, it is setting up the digital foundation, giving the customers the flexibility. And if I talk about example, uh one of our british large, I am who really is leveraging this technology for them to be able to bring more resilience and boring traing and scales departments uh to be able to, you know, on the manufacturing line and ultimately driving to the sales value chain. So those are the things that are happening. And you took an example of basically talked about consuming purely as a service what you use. This model is basically expanding everywhere very recently. I mean I saw an out of bicycle as a service. I mean instead of buying a new bicycle, I'm just able to get one bicycle, you use it for a month, return it back to the to the owner to be able to use it only when I need it, let's say for example, so that's what is really happening even in the digital transformation, I just needed for a time basis for a particular purpose. I served that purpose, ultimately driving the business resilience, agility and then ultimately serving that purpose. Yeah, >>I think I'd love your thoughts on this. I think the real opportunity here is to for for technology companies like HP. E working with TCS to create a layer I called a layer that spans on prem name your favorite cloud or multiple clouds goes across clouds goes out to the edge. That's a layer that that hides all the underlying complexity. You're going to take care of that for me uh because it's complicated. No question about it, the bigger the universe gets, the more complicated gets. But as as a customer, I want to hide that complexity because I don't want people doing plumbing, I want people focus on on strategic initiatives and that to me, seems to be the killer app, if you will of infrastructure in the future. Is that that abstraction layer? Do you see it that way? >>Absolutely. And that's where the easiest Cognex comes into play very strongly. Right? As I said earlier, it's basically it said actually uh an air driven human machine collaboration suite. So what that really means, it is bringing together the capabilities from analytics to ai with our machine first principles and and really giving that obstructing player in a pre integrated manner from edged right up to the cloud and bringing it all together for the customers. So that that's exactly what how we are really helping the customers, um a team that, again, addressing those challenges of exploration, time to market flexibility and more importantly unifying the entire landscape into one single view if I am a C I O, or if I am a CFO, I want to see what is important to me, rather than going through multiple different dashboards support, so to say, Right, so that's what pieces Cognex, there's an important role in obstructing everything and presenting, identified you and in a draft formed service delivery model for the customers. >>So the history of TCS is pretty amazing. You guys have, I mean, the, the ascendancy of the company over the decades is actually so, so impressive now and your relationship with HP and now, of course, HP goes back, I think it goes back to the 90s. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that relationship, where it's come from, how it's evolving and where you want to see it going. >>So I think it's a um uh when you go back so long, right? Uh the only way you're able to sustain that long relationship when there is a value that we have been able to deliver to each other, and more importantly, the value that we have been able to deliver to our customers, right? And that has always been the, the mantra of the whole relationship and that continues to be going forward as well. So, so in that regard, I mean, while I would rather focus more on the future, history is definitely good, but I think going forward, um the kind of work that we're doing together to be able to solve some of our customers globally across the base across the industries is extremely valuable, both to us as well as two HP, I'm sure. And and that's where we are really looking to have uh, providing real value to our customers, not just from the technology perspective, ultimately elevating that value. How do we help them solve the business problems and not just the technology solutions? >>Well, I think we've learned that that's the 11 big thing we learned from the cloud is if you just shove all your stuff in the cloud lifted and shifted it. So what, uh, it's that operating model that you talked about earlier, that really is how you, you, you drop, you know, if you're a large company, you're talking about billions, uh, to the bottom line, not, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions, but that's, that's a game changer. I'll give you a final word enough. >>Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, as they said, I think, um, I hope I would not end up repeating my mistake, but, but that, um, solving the business problems, leveraging technology and, and irrespective of the location where the technology is based being on edge or on the cloud. It's the whole model of addressing the customer demands and the customers need is extremely, extremely important. So that's that's what the whole mantra is and that's what is really were driving us forward together in the journey, >>major shifts in industry. Digital is is the driver and and Manav. Thanks so much for being on the cube. Really appreciate your time. >>Sure, thank you. Thank you for having me >>And thanks for being with us for HP Discover 2021 the virtual version. You're watching the Cube, the leader in digital tech coverage. Keep it right there.

>>Welcome back to HP discover 2021 the virtual version. My name is Dave Volonte and you're watching the cube. We're here with Manav said Donna, who is the global head of sales and market development for cognitive business operations at Tata consultancy services Tcs. And we're gonna dig in to digital transformation and take a deeper dive into the customer journeys. Welcome Manav, >>thank you. Dave, thank you for inviting me to this. Uh appreciate and looking forward to have an intriguing dialogue. You Me too. >>Me too. I mean we talk about digital transformation all the time prior to the pandemic. You know, a lot of it was kind of buzz wordy um and there's a lot of complacency around it. But as we know if you weren't digital during the pandemic you're out of business. But people were forced into it. They were rushed into I called the force marched to digital so you really didn't have time to be planned full. And now people are stepping back and saying, okay now we have an opportunity to get digital right and put that in air quotes. How do you think about digital transformation? What do you mean by that? >>Okay. See I think uh the way we look at it at this, yes, I will, I will probably take a step back where in um while the digital transformation has been in play, not just over the last year since the pandemic began, but um even before then uh where the shift in the customer organization that we have been seeing is largely from being product centric to be purpose centric wearing the whole focus of the entire existence is to be able to serve the purpose for their consumers, their customers and so on and so forth. And and if you look at it, for example, total energies right? The looking to sell or produce fuel, they are looking to be responsible energy company producing, reliable, affordable and clean energy for the consumers. Right? Similarly, there are other examples damaged shipyards who are looking to be more of a maritime solutions provider rather than just a shipbuilding company. Uh, so, so what's really happening when the purpose is being the driving force behind any organizations agenda or even reason of existence? That purpose is actually the driving force also followed the digital transformation. That is basically shifting the pace of the way businesses are looking to drive consumer experiences time to market and so on, so forth. Right? And if you see our we launched our new brand positioning in the last quarter, that's building on belief and and that's basically centered around this whole purpose driven mindset. Uh, what that means is that we believe that and the technology is enabling digital transformation are going to be the pillar of the whole shift of the re imagination of the business models where in businesses are coming together across industries and driven by the key goal of serving the customer in terms of driving the enhanced experience rather than just selling a product. So that's basically is really happening. And having said that now in the last year or so, what pandemic has done is basically accelerated the pace by a condom leap. Right? So, so in that sense, some of the organizations that were not ready at that point, they are also kind of transformation and and and taking that leap frog, I would say so from that perspective and going by again by our brand positioning statement, building on belief, right? That's really helping towards that pretty good thing, the overall journey, three horizon business and I'll come to that in a minute, but I hope it is answering your question of what digital transformation and how pandemic has really helped it. >>I just want to get 1 um point of clarification you said and you cut out there for a second, you said go from product centric too, >>but to centric >>platform centric, got it, >>but centric >>purpose centric uh building on belief, got it. Okay, so something else you said they picked up on, you talked about um actually you know crossing industries and this is something that's new and that's enabled by digital. I want to get your thoughts on it. I mean if you look at industry structures historically, whether it's manufacturing or automotive or financial services or healthcare or media and entertainment, whatever it is, there was a value chain, there is a value chain that's built up in that business might be uh it might be R. And D. Sales and marketing, service, manufacturing, etcetera. And if you are in that industry, you largely stayed in that industry forever. And now you're seeing these, a lot of big company, a lot of big tech companies having a dual disruption agenda, not only horizontally to from a technical standpoint, but you're seeing amazon get into grocery, you know, they're they're buying studios, you're seeing your Apple get into finance, and so the enabler is data and digital and that talks to the business model re imagination that you're talking about. >>Absolutely and absolutely exactly what is happening, that's what I'm really talking about. And we are firmly believing that boundaries or those boundaries are going to be blood even more so going forward as I took a few examples and you also talked about Apple, or or even amazon all the for example. Right, so all these technology companies are just being disrupted. So, having, having said that, that data being the new fuel at the same time, cloud being the new er now cloud as a technology that is enabling the business model re imagination is not just on the outside, but also on the edge side. And and that's where the boundaries are becoming so closer between edge and the cloud. And how how do we give that flexibility for to the customers to be able to adopt those digital technologies across the enterprise? Right. That's what, that's what the ship that we have been seeing. >>How do you see ecosystems playing in this? I mean it's kind of, I know it's an overused term but it seems to me to be increasingly important, its power of many versus the resources of one or a few. How do you see ecosystems driving? You know, this, this purpose driven business you talk about? >>Um very, very closely I would say, and I'll give you examples also in that sense. Right faster. Um if I talk about the journey I mentioned briefly earlier about three horizon based journey, right? The first and foremost being the setting up the digital foundation that basically could be through the combination of cloud, iOT analytics, artificial intelligence and so on, so forth. Right? And then eventually moving on to re imagination of business models and then leveraging the purpose let ecosystem Now in the Horizon one when we are setting up the digital foundation that is where the whole ecosystem comes into play. Where and where and if I talk about our co innovation network partners like HP, where we are working together to to really bring in that flexibility for the customers even in on premise environment, giving them that kind of uh features that they can experience also in the cloud to be really able to leverage the whole our beat at the edge or at the clouds. So that's where the kind of ecosystem coming together and and and those are also some of the challenges that we have seen that customers are facing today to be able to achieve the first horizon in that journey. The challenges like accelerated or or the time to market challenges. Like are they able to achieve the flexibility to be able to offer to the business and and challenges? Like are they able to achieve transformation at scale or is it just appointed um pointed poc sort of thing? Right. So bringing the ecosystem together is able to help customers address those challenges, be it in terms of consumption driven, addressing the flexibility needs be it in terms of the pre integrated solutions addressing the challenges related to time to market and so and so forth. >>Can we stay on the challenges for a minute? As I said, pre pandemic. There was a lot of complacency. We've all seen that meme of the wrecking ball coming in and kind of a tongue in cheek joke, but but the complacency is gone, so so there's there also, but still organizational challenges. It's not complacency anymore, but what's the right regime, what's the right approach? Uh everybody wants to get digital right, but a lot of people, you know, that's a do you see that as a challenge? Actually not knowing where to prioritize it and you know, how can you help in that regard? >>Yeah, So, and I would also like to like to talk about what we have done in in certain with certain customer with challenges. Um, some of the things I'll introduce TCS Cognex here, this is our platform which basically brings together the capabilities in a pre integrated uh, for of predefined solutions accelerators of our value builders as we call it, um, for customers to be able to just integrate their environments to be able to manage the whole infrastructure or of the landscape in a completely automated and analytics driven manner. Right, so that's that's one way of addressing those challenges. What it also does is it gives that um power to the stakeholders in the organization to be able to address that key challenge of time to market because it is giving out or coming out in a pre integrated manner and be able to achieve that benefits or realize the benefits of transformation In in an accelerated time frame instead of waiting for 18-24 months, how can it be done in 3-6 months, for example. Right, that's that's that's one set and and similarly, uh if I talk about the flexibility, right, consumption driven manner is extremely, extremely important. And if I talk about hybrid cloud, so to say right today, about 1 to 2% of the on premise infrastructure is actually in a consumption driven manner while cloud is always gonna consumption driven manner, The trends that we're seeing is that by next year about minimum 15% of the on premise infrastructure in a hybrid cloud environment will be about or will be delivering a consumption-driven manner and that's what is going to address the various the opportunity as well as the challenge to address that particular aspect of flexibility and that's where the ecosystem with the likes of us pcs and HP coming together to provide solutions that are addressing those needs of our consumers. >>And when you talk about the consumption driven, obviously talking about things like HP Green Lake, that's a model that enables that kind of consumption model. You know, I feel like, I mean, I feel like that's kind of table stakes to be honest with, you, pointed out 1 to 2% of it. I said wow, clouds been around for a long time and now, but now we're seeing the rapid adoption 15% and we're also seeing, I mean I think I'll give H PE some props on this because they got their whole company behind it, but there has to be a complimentary shift in the mindset of OK, we're not now selling boxes anymore and I think HP has done a pretty good job of this. They've made some announcements recently to that effect. They're doing an HPC. We just saw some storage announcements so it's no longer, hey, here's a box to sell it and this is where a company like Tcs comes to play. You, you've, you've never had that box mentality, you have a solutions mentality and so, so the industry is moving in a very rapid pace now. My question is, are the customers ready for it? Are they ready for it? Because they have the cloud experience, are they ready for it on prem and what do they need to do to get ready for that? >>See um, to answer your first question already and what really is the trigger point for them being ready? The answer is yes. Okay. Um, I would say a large percentage of the customer base was ready even before pandemic, but pandemic has really made it even more prominent in the customer and that has become a need, We are seeing so many customers today, I mean, uh, in my global role, I'm seeing across industries and across markets right from north America to Australia japan. We're in, we're in the need for having consumption. Everyone is even at on premise while cloud is definitely there, but even at on premise is so much so that really is the trigger um, at the same time now what is really driving that trigger apart from pandemic is to be able to offer that flexibility to their business. Businesses are basically reimagining, reimagining their whole uh where they are reaching out to their customers where they are expanding into the nuclear markets and the speed is extremely, extremely important. And that's what is really putting the whole, let's >>peel the onion on that. Somebody asked me this the other day why why as reserves? I said the same thing, flexibility and they're like, yeah, okay, but give me some examples. And so I said, well, first of all, they're paying by the drink. So it's a much fairer for the customer model instead of okay, charge them for what they're not even gonna use or what they might use for a day or two or a month. The other is experimentation. It just seems to me that in the digital world you got to fail fast, you don't know, you don't know what, you don't know. And so these consumption models allow you to spin up experiments very quickly and cheaply and only pay for what you use is. Am I am I getting that right? >>Absolutely, Absolutely. And and and that that's exactly what the model is, that we as well as the partner together, that we are offering. Only one thing that I would want to highlight here is um while that's the foundation, as I said, it is setting up the digital foundation, giving the customers the flexibility. And if I talk about example, uh one of our british large, uh I am who really is leveraging this technology for them to be able to bring more resilience and boring the lettering and scales, departments uh to be able to, you know, on the manufacturing line and ultimately driving to the sales value chain. So those are the things that are happening. And you took an example of basically talked about consuming purely as a service. What you use. This model is basically expanding everywhere very recently. I mean I saw an out of bicycle as a service. I mean instead of buying a new bicycle, I'm just able to get one bicycle, you use it or for a month, return it back to the to the owner to be able to use it only when I need it, let's say for example, so that's what is really happening even in the digital transformation, I just need it for a time basis for a particular purpose. I served that purpose, ultimately driving the business resilience, agility and then ultimately serving that purpose. Yeah, >>I think I'd love your, your thoughts on this. I think the real opportunity here is to for for technology companies like HP, working with TCS to create a layer I called a layer that spans on prem name your favorite cloud or multiple clouds goes across clouds goes out to the edge, that's the layer that that hides all the underlying complexity. You're going to take care of that for me uh because it's complicated. No question about it, the bigger the universe gets, the more complicated gets. But as as a customer, I want to hide that complexity because I don't want people doing plumbing, I want people focus on on strategic initiatives and that's, to me, seems to be the killer app if you will of infrastructure in the future. Is that that abstraction layer? Do you see it that way? >>Absolutely. And that's where the easiest Cognex comes into play very strongly. Right? As I said earlier, it's basically it said actually uh an air driven human machine collaboration suite. So what that really means, it is bringing together the capabilities from analytics to ai with our machine first principles and and really giving that obstructing layer in a pre integrated manner from edged right up to the cloud and bringing it all together for the customers. So that that's exactly what how we are really helping the customers, um a team that again, addressing those challenges of exploration, time to market flexibility and more importantly unifying the entire landscape into one single view. If I am a C I O, or if I am a CFO, I want to see what is important to me, rather than going to multiple different dashboard support so to save. Right? So that's where pieces Cognex plays an important role in obstructing everything and presenting that unified do and in a transformed service delivery model for the customers. >>So the history of TCS is pretty amazing. You guys have, I mean, the, the ascendancy of the company over the decades is actually so, so impressive. Now in your relationship with HP and now, of course, HP goes back, I think it goes back to the 90s, maybe you could talk a little bit about that relationship, where it's come from, how it's evolving and where you want to see it going. >>So I think it's uh, when you go back so long, right? Uh the only way you're able to sustain that long relationship when there is a value that we have been able to deliver to each other, and more importantly, the value that we have been able to deliver to our customers, right? And that has always been the, the mantra of the whole relationship and that continues to be going forward as well. So, so in that regard, I mean, while I would rather focus more on the future, history is definitely good, but I think going forward, um the kind of work that we're doing together to be able to solve some of our customers globally across the base across the industries is extremely valuable, both to us as well as two HP, I'm sure, and that's where we are really looking to have uh, providing real value to our customers, not just from the technology perspective, ultimately elevating that value. How do we help them solve the business problems and not just the technology solutions? >>Well, I think we've learned that that's the 11 big thing we learned from the cloud is if you just shove all your stuff in the cloud lifted and shifted it. So, what, um, it's that operating model that you talked about earlier, that really is how you, you you drop, you know, if you're a large company, you're talking about billions to the bottom line, not hundreds of thousands or millions, but that's that's a game changer. I'll give you a final word enough. >>Absolutely, Absolutely. I mean, as they said, I think, um, I hope I will not end up repeating my mistake, but, but that, um, solving the business problems, leveraging technology and, and irrespective of the location where the technology is based being on edge or on the cloud. It's the whole model of addressing the customer demands and the customers need is extremely, extremely important. So that's that's what the whole mantra is and that's what is really driving us forward together in the journey. >>Major shifts in industry digital is is the driver and and Manav thanks so much for being on the cube. Really appreciate your time. >>Sure, thank you. Thank you for having me >>And thanks for being with us for HP Discover 2021 the virtual version. You're watching the Cube, the leader in digital tech coverage. Keep it right there. >>Mhm.

>>I'm really glad to have you with us today, john, I know you stepped out of vacation so thanks very much for joining us. >>No, it's great to be joining you from Hawaii and I love the partnership with H. P. E. And the way you're reinventing an industry, >>well, you've always excelled john at catching market transitions and there are so many transitions and paradigm shifts happening in the market and text specifically right now as you see, companies rush to accelerate their transformation. What do you see as the keys to success? >>Well, I, I think you're seeing actually an acceleration following the covid challenges that always faced and I wasn't sure that would happen. It's, it's probably at three times the paces before. There was a discussion point about how quickly the companies need to go digital. Uh, that's no longer discussion point. Almost all companies are moving with tremendous speed on digital and its ability as the cloud moves to the edge with compute and security uh, at the edge and how you deliver these services to where the majority of applications uh reside are going to determine. I think the future of the next generation company leadership and it's the area that Neil we're working together on in many, many ways. So I think it's about innovation. It's about the cloud moving to the edge and an architectural play with silicon to speed up that innovation. >>Yes, we certainly see the our customers of all sizes trying to accelerate what's next and get that digital transformation moving even faster as a result of the environment the world living in. And we're finding that workload focus is really key customers and all kinds of different scales are having to adapt and support the remote workforces with beady eye. And as you say, john they're having to deal with the deployment of workloads at the edge, with so much data getting generated at the edge and being acted upon on the edge. The analytics and the infrastructure to manage that as these processes get digitized and automated is so important for so many workflows. We really believe that the choice of infrastructure partner that underpins those transformations really matters. A partner that can help create the financial capacity that can help optimize your environments and enable our customers to focus on supporting their business are all super key to success. And you mentioned that in the last year there's been a lot of rapid course correction for all of us, a demand for velocity and the ability to deployed resources. That scale is more and more needed, maybe more than ever. What are you hearing customers looking for as they are rolling out their digital transformation efforts? >>Well, I think they're being realistic that they're going to have to move a lot faster than before and they're also realistic on core versus context. Their their their core capability is not the technology themselves, it's how to deploy it and there were looking for partners that can help bring them there together, but there can also innovate. And very often the leaders who might have been a leader in a prior generation may not be on this next move. Hence the opportunity for HP and startups like Monsanto to work together as the cloud moves to the edge and perhaps really balanced or even challenge some of the big, big incumbents in this category as well as partners uniquely with our joint customers on how do we achieve their business goals? Tell me a little bit more about how you move from this being a technology position in for a J e to literally helping your customers achieve their outcomes they want and and how are you changing hb in that way? >>Well, I think when you consider these transformations the infrastructure that you choose to underpin, it is incredibly critical. Our customers need a software defined management plane that enables them to automate so much of their infrastructure. They need to be able to take faster action where the data is and to do all of this in a cloud like experience where they can deliver their infrastructure as code anywhere from exa scale through the enterprise data center to the edge. And really critically, they have to be able to do this securely, which becomes an ever increasing challenge and doing it at the right economics relative to the alternatives. And part of the right economics, of course includes adopting the best practices from web scale architectures and bringing them to the heart of the enterprise. And in our partnership with Pensando, we're working to enable these new ideas of Web scale architecture and fleet management for the enterprise at scale. >>You know, what is fun is HP has an unusual talent from the very beginning Silicon Valley of working together with others and creating a win win innovation approach. If you watch what your team has been able to do. And I want to say this for everybody listening, you work with startups better than any other company I've seen in terms of how you do win win together and pennsylvania is just the example of that. Uh this startup, which by the way, is the ninth time I have done with this team, a new generation of products and we're designing that together with H. P. E. In terms of as the cloud moves to the edge, how do we get the leverage out of that and produce results for your customers on this? Uh, to give the audience appeal for it. You're talking with Manzano alone in terms of the efficiency versus an amazon amazon web services of an order of magnitude. I'm not talking 100% grader, I'm talking 10 X grader and things went through, Put number of connections, you do the jitter capability, etcetera. And it talks how to companies uniquely who believe in innovation and trust with each other and have very similar cultures can work uniquely together on it. How do you bring that to life with an H. B? How do you get your company to really say that's harvest the advantages of your ecosystem in your advantages of startups? >>Well, you say more and more companies are faced with these challenges of hitting the right economics for the infrastructure. And we see many enterprises of various sizes trying to come to terms with infrastructures that look a lot more like a service provider that require that software defined management plane and the automation to deploy at scale. And with the world we're doing with Pensando, the benefits that we bring in terms of the observe ability and the telemetry and the encryption and the distributed network functions. But also a security architecture that enables that efficiency on the individual nodes is just so key to building a competitive architecture moving forwards for an on prem private cloud or internal service provider operation. And we're really excited about the work we've done to bring that technology across our portfolio and bring that to our customers so that they can achieve those kind of economics and capabilities and go focus on their own transformations rather than building and running the infrastructure themselves. Artisanal e and having to deal with integrating all of that great technology themselves >>makes tremendous sense. You know, Neil you and I work on a board together etcetera. I've watched your summarization skills and I always like to ask a question after you do a quick summary like this, what are the three or four takeaways we would like for the audience to get out of our conversation? >>Well, that's a great question. Thanks john we believe that customers need a trusted partner to work through these digital transformations that are facing them and confront the challenge of the time that the covid crisis has taken away. As you set out front, every organizations having to transform and transform more quickly and more digitally. I'm working with a trusted partner with the expertise that only comes from decades of experience is a key enabler for that, a partner with the ability to create the financial capacity to transform the workload expertise to get more from the infrastructure and optimize the environment so that you can focus on your own business, a partner that can deliver the systems and the security and the automation that makes it easily deployable and manageable anywhere you need them at any scale, whether the edge, the enterprise data center or all the way up to exa scale in high performance computing and can do that all as a service as we can at H P E through H PE Green Lake enabling our customers most critical workloads. It's critical that all of that is underpinned by an A I powered, digitally enabled service experience so that our customers can get on with their transformation and running their business instead of dealing with their infrastructure. And really only H PE can provide this combination of capabilities and we're excited and committed to helping our customers accelerate what's next for their businesses >>Neil. It's fun. I love being your partner and your wingman or values and cultures are so similar. Thanks for letting me be a part of this discussion today. >>Thanks for being with us, john, it was great avenue here. >>Oh, his friends were like.

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante cios in the most recent september etr spending survey tell us that they expect a slight sequential improvement in q4 spending relative to q3 but still down four percent from q4 2019 so this picture is still not pretty but it's not bleak either to whit firms are adjusting to the new abnormal and are taking positive actions that can be described as a slow thawing of the deep freeze hello everyone this is dave vellante and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we're going to review fresh survey data from etr and provide our outlook for both q4 of 2020 and into 2021. now we're still holding at our four to five percent decline in tech spending for 2020 but we do see light at the end of the tunnel with some cautions specifically more than a thousand cios and it buyers have we've surveyed expect tech spending to show a slight upward trend of roughly two percent in 2021. this is off of a q4 decline of 4 relative to q4 2019 but i would put it this way a slightly less worse decline sequentially from q3 last quarter we saw a 5 decline in spending okay so generally more of the same but things seem to be improving again with caveats now in particular we'll show data that suggests technology project freezes are slowly coming back and we see remote workers returning at a fairly significant rate however executives expect nearly double the percentage of employees working remotely in the midterm and even long term than they did pre-covert that suggests that the work from home trend is not cyclical but showing signs of permanence and why not cios report that on balance productivity has been maintained or even improved during covit now of course this all has to be framed in the context of the unknowns like the fall and even winter surge what about fiscal policy there's uncertainty in the election social unrest all right so let's dig into some of the specifics of the etr data now i mentioned uh the number of respondents at over a thousand i have to say this was predominantly a us-based survey so it's it's 80 sort of bias to the u.s and but it's also weighted to the big spenders in larger organizations with a nice representation across industries so it's good data here now you can see here the slow progression of improvement relative to q3 which as i said was down five percent year-on-year with the four percent decline expected in q4 now etr is calling for a roughly four percent decline for the year you know i've been consistently in the four to five percent decline range and agree with that outlook and you can see cios are planning for a two percent uptick in 2021 as we said at the open now in our view this represents some prudent caution and i think there's probably some upside but it's a good planning assumption for the market overall in my view now let's look at some of the actions that organizations are taking and how that's changed over time you can see here that organizations they're slowly releasing that grip on tech spending overall you know still no material change in employees working from home or traveling we can see that hiring freezes are down that's that's positive in the green as our new i.t deployment freezes and a slight uptick in acceleration of new deployments now as well you see fewer companies are planning layoffs and while small the percent of companies adding head count has doubled from last quarter's you know minimal number all right so this is based on survey data at the end of the summer so it reflects that end of summer sentiment so we got to be a little bit cautious here and i think cios are you know by nature cautious on their projections of two percent up in 2021. now importantly remember this does not get us back to 20 20 19 spending levels so we may be seeing a kind of a long slow climb out of this you know tepid market maybe 2022 gets back over 2019 before we start to see sustained growth again and remember these recoveries are rarely smooth they're not straight lines so you got to expect some choppiness with you know some pockets of opportunity which we'll discuss here in this slide we're showing the top areas that respondents cited as spending priorities for q4 and into 2021 so the chart shows the ratings based on a seven-point scale and these are the top spending initiatives heading into the year end now as we've been saying for the better part of a decade cyber security is a do-over and i've joked you know if it ain't broke don't fix it well coven broke everything and cyber is an area that's seeing long-term change in my opinion endpoint security identity access management cloud security security as a service these are all trends that we're seeing as really major waves as a result of covid now it's coming at the expense of large install bases of things like traditional hardware-based firewalls and we've talked about this a lot in previous segments cloud migration is interesting and i really think it needs some interpretation i mean nobody likes to do migrations so i would suggest this includes things like i have a bunch of people answering phones and offices or i had and then overnight boom the offices are closed so i needed a cloud-based solution i didn't just lift and ship my shift my entire phone routing system you know from the office into the cloud but i probably pivoted to a cloud solution to support those work from home employees now my guess is i think that would be included in these responses i mean i do know an example of an insurance company that did migrate its claims application to the cloud during coven but this was something that they were you know planning to do pre-covered and i guess the point here is twofold again like i said migrations are hairy nobody wants to do them and i think this category really means i'm increasing my use of the cloud so i'm kind of migrating my my operations over time to the cloud all right look at collaboration no shocker here we've pounded you know zoom and webex to death analytics is really interesting we have talked extensively uh and have been covering snowflake and we pointed out that there's a new workload that has emerged in the cloud it's not just snowflake you know there are others aws redshift google with bigquery and and others but snowflake is the off the charts you know hot ipo and so we we talk a lot about it but it relates to this easy setup and access to a data layer with having you know requisite security and governance and this market is exploding adding ai on top and really doing this in the cloud so you can scale it up or down and really only pay for what you need that's a real benefit to people compare that to the traditional edw snake swallowing a basketball i got to get every new intel chip you're not dialing up down down you're over provisioning and half the time you're not using you know half most of the time you're not utilizing what you've paid for all right look at networking you know traffic patterns changed overnight with covet ddos attacks are up 25 to 40 percent uh since coven cyber attacks overall are up 400 percent this year so these all have impacts on the network machine learning and ai i talked about a little bit earlier about that but organizations are realizing that infusing ai into the application portfolio it's becoming really an imperative much more important as the automation mandate that we've talked about becomes more acute people you can't scale humans at this at the pace of technology so automation becomes much more important that of course leads us to rpa now you might think rpa should be a higher priority but i think what's happening here is i t organizations they were scrambling to plug holes in the dike rpa is somewhat more strategic and planful our data suggests that rpa remains one of the most elevated spending categories in terms of net score etr's measure of spending momentum so this means way more people are spending more than spending less in the rpa category so it really has a lot of legs in fact with the exception of container orchestration i think rpa is a sector that has the highest net score i think you'll see that in the upcoming surveys it's as high or even higher than ai i think it's higher than cloud it's just that it remember this is an it survey and a lot of the rpa stuff is going on at the business level but it had to keep the ship afloat when coveted hit which somewhat shifted priorities but but rpa remains strong now let's go back uh to the work from home trend for a moment i know it's been been played out and kind of beat on really heavily covered but i got to tell you etr was the very first on this trend it was way back in march and the data here is instructive it shows that the percentage of employees working from home prior to cor covid currently working from home the percent expected in six months and then those expected essentially permanently and this is primarily work from home versus yeah i don't work a day or two per week it's really the the five day a week i i work remotely as you can see only 16 percent of employees were working from home pre pandemic whereas more than 70 percent are at home today and cios they actually see a meaningful decline in that number over the next six months you know we'll see based on how covid comes back and you know this fall and winter surge and how will that will affect these plans but look what it does long term it settles in at like 34 percent that's double pre-covet so really a meaningful and permanent impact is expected from the isolation economy that we're in today and again why not look at this data it shows the distribution of productivity improvements so that while 23 of respondents said work from home productivity impacts were neutral nearly half i think it was 48 if you add up those bars on the right nearly half are seeing productivity improvements well less than 30 percent see a decline in productivity and you can see the etr quants they peg the average gain at between three and five percent that's pretty significant now of course not everyone can work from home if you're working at a restaurant you really you know unless you're in finance you really can't work from home but we're seeing in this digital economy with cloud and other technologies that we actually can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and many employees are going to look at work from home options as a benefit you know it was just a couple years ago remember that we were talking about companies like ibm and yahoo who mandated coming into the office i mean that was like 2017 2018 time frame well that trend is over now let me give you a quick preview of some of the other things that we're seeing and what the etr data shows now let me also say i'm just scratching the surface here etr has deep deep data cuts they have the sas platform allows you to look at the data all different ways and if you're not working with them you should be because the data gets updated so frequently every quarter there's new data there's drill down surveys and it's forward-looking so you know a lot of the survey data or a lot of the data that we use market share data and other data are sort of looking back you know you use your sales data your sales forecast that's obviously forward-looking but but the etr survey data can actually give an observation space outside of your sales force and no i'm not getting paid by etr but but it's been such a valuable resource i want to make it available and make the community aware of it all right so let's do a little speed round on on some of the the vendors of interest that we've talked about in the last several segments last couple years actually many years decade anyway start with aws aws continues to be strong but they they have less momentum than microsoft this is sort of a recurring pattern here but aws churn is low low low not a lot of people leaving the aws platform despite what we hear about this repatriation trend data warehousing is a little bit soft whereas we see snowflake very very strong but aws share is really strong inside of large companies so cloud and teams and security are strong from microsoft whereas data warehouse and ai aren't as robust as we've seen before but but microsoft azure cloud continues to see a little bit more momentum than aws so we'll watch that next quarter for aws earnings call now google has good momentum and they're steady especially in cloud database ai and analytics we've talked a lot about how google's behind the big two but nonetheless they're showing good good momentum servicenow very low churn but they're kind of hitting the law of large numbers still super strong in large accounts but not the same red hot hat red hot momentum as we've seen in the past octa is showing continued momentum they're holding you know close to number one or that top spot in security that we talked about last time no surprise given the increased importance of identity access management that we've been talking about so much crowdstrike last survey in july they showed some softness despite a good quarter and and we we're seeing continued to sell it to deceleration in the survey now that's from extremely elevated levels but it's significantly down from where crowdstrike was at the height of the lockdown i mean we like the sector of endpoint security and crowdstrike is definitely a leader there and you know well-managed company company but you know maybe they got hit with uh with you know a quick covet injection with with a step up function that's maybe moderating somewhat you know maybe there's some competition you know vmware freezing the market with carbon black i i really don't see that i think it's it's it's you know maybe there's some survey data isn't reflective of of what what crowdstrike is seeing we're going to see in the upcoming earnings release but it's something that we're watching very closely you know two survey snapshots with crowdstrike being a little bit softer it doesn't make a sustained trend but we would have liked to seen you know a little bit stronger this this quarter the data's still coming in so we'll see sale point is one we focused on recently and we see very little negative in their numbers so they're holding solid z scalar showing pretty strong momentum and while there was some concern last survey within large organizations it seemed that might have been a survey anomaly because z scalar they had a strong quarter a good outlook and we're seeing a strong recovery in the most recent data so it also looks like z z scaler is pressuring some of palo alto network's dominance and momentum heading into the quarter so we'll pay close attention to that we've said we like palo alto networks but they're so big uh they've got some exposures but they can offset those you know and they're doing a better job in cloud with their pricing models and sort of leaning into some of the the market waves uh sale point appears to be holding serve you know heading into the fourth quarter snowflake i mean what can we say it continues to show some of the strongest spending momentum going into q4 and into 2021 no signs of slowing down they're going to have their first earnings reports coming up you know in a few months so i i got to believe they got it together and and they're going to be strong reports uipath and momentum is is slowing down a bit but existing customers keep spending with ui path and there's very few defections so it looks like their land and expand is working pretty well automation anywhere continues to be strong despite comments about the sector earlier which showed you know maybe it wasn't as high a priority some other sectors but as i said you know it's still really really strong strong in terms of momentum and automation anywhere in uipath they continue to battle it out for the the top spot within the data set within the automation data set well i should say within rpa i mean companies like pega systems have a broader automation agenda and we really like their strategy and their execution databricks you know hot company once a hot company and still hot but we're seeing a little bit of a deceleration in the survey even though new customer acquisition is quite strong put it this way databricks is strong but not the off the chart outperformer that it used to be this is how etr frame that their analysis so i want to obviously credit that to them datadog showing the most strength in the application performance management or monitoring sector whichever you prefer but generally the the net scores in that sector as we talked about last week they're not great as a sector when you compare it to other leading sectors like cloud or automation rpa as an example container orchestration you know apm is kind of you know significantly lower it's not it's not as low as some of the on-prem on-prem infrastructure or some of the on-prem software but you know given datadog's high valuation it's somewhat of a concern so keep an eye on that mongodb you know they got virtually no customer churn but they're losing some momentum in terms of net score in the survey which is something we're keeping an eye on and a big downtick in in large organization acquisitions within the data so in other words they had a lot of new acquisitions within large companies but that's down now again that could be anomalies in the data i don't want to you know go to the bank on that necessarily but that's something to watch zoom they keep growing but etr data cites a churn of actually up to seven percent due to some security concerns so that was widely reported in the press and somewhere slower velocity for zoom overall due to possible competition from microsoft teams but i tell you it has an amazing stat that etr threw out pre-cove at zoom penetration in the education vertical was 15 today it's over 80 percent wowza cisco cisco's core is weak as we've said you've seen that in their earnings numbers it's it's there's softness there but security meraki those are two areas that remain strong same kind of similar story to last quarter survey pure storage you know they're the the high flyer they're like the one-eyed man in the land of the the storage blind so storage you know not a great market we've talked about that we've seen some softness in the the data set from uh in pure storage and really often sympathy with the generally back burner storage market you know again they they still outperforming their peers but we've seen slower growth rates there in the in in the survey and that's been reflected in their earnings uh so we've been talking about that for a while really keeping an eye on on on pure they made some acquisitions trying to expand their market enough said about that rubric rubric's interesting they kind of were off the charts in a couple surveys ago and they really come off of those highs you know anecdotally we're hearing some concerns in in the market it's hard to tell the private company cohesity has overtaken rubric and spending momentum now for the second quarter in a row you know they're still not as prevalent in the data set we'd like to see more ends from cohesity remember this is sort of a random sample across multiple industries we let the or etr lets the the respondents tell them what they're buying and what they're spending on you know but because cohesity has the highest net score relative to to compares like rubric like veeam you know i even threw in when i looked at nutanix pure dell emcs vxrail those are not direct competitors but they're you know kind of quasi compares if you will new relic they're showing some concerning trends on churn and the company is way off its 2018 momentum highs in the survey and we talked about this last week some of the challenges new relic is facing but we like their tech the nrdb is purpose-built for monitoring and performance management and we feel like you know they can retain their leadership if they can can pull it together we talked about elliott management being in there so that's something that we're watching red hat is showing strength in open shift really really strong ibm you know services exposure uh it's it's not the greatest business in the world right now at the same time there's there's crosswinds there at the same time people you know need some services and they need some help there but the certainly the outsourcing business so there's you know countervailing you know crosswinds uh within ibm but openshift bright spot i i think you know when i look at at the the red hat acquisition yeah 34 billion but but it's it's pretty obvious why ibm made that move um but anyway ibm's core business continues to be under under pressure that's why red hat is such an important component which brings me to vmware vmware has been an execution machine they had vmworld this past week uh we talked last month about the strength of vmware cloud on aws and it's still strong and and vmware cloud portfolio with vmware cloud foundation and other offerings but other than tanzu vmware is in this october survey of the first first look shows some deceleration really across the board you know one potential saving grace etr shared with me is that the fortune 500 spending for vmware is stronger so maybe on a spend basis when i say stronger stronger stronger than the mean so maybe on a spend basis vmware is okay but there seems to be some potential exposure there you know we won't know for sure until late next year uh how the dell reshuffle is going to affect them but it's going to be interesting to see how dell restructures vmware's balance sheet to get its own house in order and remember dell wants to get to investment grade for its own balance sheet yet at the same time it wants to keep vmware at investment grade but the interesting thing to watch is what impact that's going to have on vmware's ability to fund its future and we're not going to know that for a long long time but you know we'll keep an eye on on those developments now dell for its part showing strength and work from home and also strengthen giant public and privates which is a bellwether in the etr data set uh you know these are huge private companies for example uh koch industries would be one you know massive private companies mars would be another example not necessarily that they're the ones responding although my guess is they are it's it's anonymous but actually etr actually knows and they can identify who those bell weathers are and it's been a it's been a predictor of performance for the last you know better part of a decade so we'll see vxrail is strong um you know servers and storage they're they're still muted relative to last year but not really down from july so you know holding on dell holding on to it to to a tepid spending outlook they got such huge exposure on-prem you know so on balance i wouldn't expect you know a barn burner out of dell you know but they got a big portfolio and they've got a lot of a lot of options there and remember they still have the the still have they have a pc uh business unlike hpe which i'll talk about in in in a moment talk about now aruba is the bright spot for hpe but servers and storage those seem to be off you know similar to dell uh but but but maybe even down further i think you know dell is kind of holding relative to last quarter survey you know down from earlier this year and certainly down from from last year uh but hpe seems to be on a steeper downward trajectory uh in storage and service from the survey you know we'll see again you know one one snapshot quarter this is not a trend to make uh but again storage looks particularly soft which is a bit of a concern and we saw that you know in hpe's numbers you know last quarter um customer acquisition is strong for nutanix but overall spending is decelerating versus a year ago levels uh we know about the 750 million dollar injection uh from from bain capital basically you know in talking to bain what essentially they're doing is they they're betting on upside in the hyper-converged marketplace it's true that from a penetration standpoint there's a long long way to go and it's also true that nutanix is shifting from a you know perpetual model you know boom by the the capex to a in an annual occurring revenue model and they kind of need a bridge of cash to sort of soften that blow we've seen companies like tableau make that transition adobe successfully made that transition splunk is in that transition now and it's you know kind of funky for them but at any rate you know within that infrastructure software and virtualization sectors you know nutanix is showing some softness but in things like storage actually nutanix looking pretty strong very strong actually so again this theme of of these crosswinds uh supporting some companies whereas they're exposed in other areas you certainly see that with large companies and and nutanix looks like it's got some momentum in some areas and you know challenges in in others okay so that's just a quick speed dating round with some of the vendor previews for the upcoming survey so i just want to summarize now and we'll wrap so we see overall tech spending off four to five percent in 2020 with a slightly less bad slightly less bad q4 sequentially relative to q3 all this is relative to last year so we see continued headwinds coming into 2021 expect low single-digit spending growth next year let's call it two percent and there are some clear pockets of growth taking advantage of what we see is a more secular work from home trend particularly in security although we're watching some of the leaders shift positions cloud despite the commentary earlier remains very very strong aws azure google red hat open shift serverless kubernetes analytic cloud databases all very very strong automation also stands out as as a a priority in what we think is the coming decade with an automation mandate and some of the themes we've talked about for a long time particularly the impact of cloud relative to on-prem you know we don't see this so-called repatriation as much of a trend as it is a bunch of fun from on-prem vendors that don't own a public cloud so just you just don't see it i mean i'm sure there are examples of oh we did something in the cloud we lifted and shifted it didn't work out we didn't change our operating model okay but the the number of successes in cloud is like many orders of magnitude you know greater than the numbers of failures on the plus side however the for the on-prem guys the hybrid and multi-cloud spaces are increasingly becoming strategic for customers so that's something that i've said for a long time particularly with multi-cloud we've kind of been waiting it's been a lot of vendor power points but that really we talked to customers now they're hedging their bets in cloud they're they're putting horses for courses in terms of workloads they're they're they're not betting their business necessarily on a single cloud and as a result they need security and governance and performance and management across clouds that's consistent so that's actually a a really reasonable and significant opportunity for a lot of the on-prem vendors and as we've said before they're probably not necessarily going to trust the cloud players the public cloud players to deliver that they're going to want somebody that's cloud agnostic okay that's it for this week remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen so please subscribe i publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey action and the analytics these guys are amazing i always appreciate the comments on my linkedin posts thank you very much you can dm me at d vallante or email me at david.volante at siliconangle.com and this is dave vellante thanks for watching this episode of cube insights powered by etr be well and we'll see you next time you

>>Fly from San Francisco. It's the cube covering RSA conference, 2020 San Francisco brought to you by Silicon angle media >>and welcome back. You're ready Jeffrey here with the cube. We are a day four here at the RSA conference in Moscone Thursday. We've been going all day Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. It's a huge conference over 40,000 people, you know, kind of the first big us conference after the mobile world Congress thing with a coronavirus. So we were all kind of curious to see how it would work out. There was some companies that pulled out but you know Rohit and the team stayed the course, they got the support they needed from the city and it's turned out to be quite a show. So I'm sure there's a lot of people all over the industry kind of watching this as an indicator of how do you execute a conference and these kinds of crazy times. So we're excited for our next guest. He's Andy Smith, the senior vice president of marketing for Centrify. >>Andy, great to see you. Good to be here, Jeff. Doing great. So you said you've been coming to this show for a while, you're a seasoned veteran of the industry. First off kind of general impressions of this show versus versus other kinds of RSAs you've been doing in the past. It's super interesting to watch. It ebbs and flows of the security industry, right? I mean I've been 15 years over the past 25 I've been at this show and you've seen it be big and then shrink down, you know, to one hall and then the two halls again. I mean what's interesting the last couple of years is it's, it's big again, like security is hot. We know budgets are going up, a breach, cultures out there. And so, you know, the IC, the RSA show is a reflection of what's happening with the industry when you look at the size and number of attendees. >>Right. The other kind of theme this year was the human centric, uh, boat. And we had row head guy on just a little bit earlier in his keynote. I thought it was really interesting. It was not about security per se. It was not about threats and detection. It was really about stories and narratives and peoples and kind of taking that back as an industry. I wonder, you know, kinda your impression as this kind of human centric theme as we're surrounded by tech tech and more tech. It is, if you think about human centric, it's a, it's a big piece of your, your security strategy, right? I mean, uh, what, there was just this morning, uh, one of the sharks got fished, right? Lost $400,000. One of the, yeah. And so, uh, you know, educating people about looking out for fishing attacks, right? Uh, uh, looking at insiders who are one of our biggest threats and you know, they're, they're a huge piece of this is not technology at all. >>Right? I thought Wendy's keynote was great too from Cisco. Talking about everything we do on computers is about clicking. And yet we tell people, you know, click the download the patch, but don't click on anything else. And really, you know, kind of taken an approach that people need to be part of the solution. They're not these horrible people that keep clicking on the wrong things, but you really need to integrate them into your strategy. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's about educating your workforce. It's about educating consumers, right? Whether you're talking B to C security or whether you're talking to me to be that human element and educating to be diligent right to you, you got to know a little bit about how to look for something that might be suspicious and know what is, what you should be clicking on, what you shouldn't. There's, there's not a lot of technology that can solve that for you. >>It's getting out and, and, and making sure people are educated. And unfortunately, the bad guys have been working hard on their grammar and, uh, and doing all the AI on the background. So, you know, it's not, a lot of things today are not easily identifiable like they used to. They've gotten, that's no longer really kind of a baseline, a hope not to click that thing. They've gotten way better. Right? So rather than these attacks that are spray and pray, they're going after, you know, just going after anybody. They can, they're targeted now. Right? So spear fishing, right. And uh, and so specific individuals. And that's why one of the things that, that is a little bit coming up at this show and something that we talk about is identity centric security. So that you've got a tie, that kind of human element to your security. >>You know, there's network centric, but getting identity centric and tying that human element to your security aspect, making sure the security, the identity technologies and the security technologies are working together. That is brings that human element into your own security strategy. And when you, when you talk about identity, how should people be thinking about identity? Because clearly we see the kind of the rise in multi-factor now, right? We have to do, we have to go to the, our phones all the time with the code. Now we're hearing people, you know, can spoof identity, they can Smoove faces. I guess identity is not a face, but you know, some of these indicators of identity. So when you help people think about identity, what are some of the factors they should think about? What are the things they don't but they should be thinking about? Yeah, yeah. >>I mean some of the things that we talked a lot about is multifactor authentication. So although yes, right, real sophisticated people can have ways of getting around that, but most attackers and hackers are lazy, right? They're going to go for somebody who's got no multi-factor in place, like even doing the basics is way better than doing nothing. I mean, the statistics bear out that you do a little something right? And then you can always step it up and get more sophisticated where you've got tokens that you have to put your finger on, right? And you know, you can get smart cards and all those kinds of things. You can get much more sophisticated, but multi-factor in general works. I mean, you're just going to take it a far bit above. But what's interesting about identity, because we always think of humans, right? But when we talk identity, where this market is going is identity is machines. >>You have to give a machine an identity, you have to give a service account, an identity, you have to give a microservice identity. And these more and more, this is just completely automated world. This isn't humans logging into things anymore. This is microservices talking to each other. Each of those needs an identity needs an authorization cause they have accounts that can be hacked also. Right? So the you need protect those just as much as needed to protect those human accounts. It's funny cause we, we cover a lot of RPA shows, right? And the whole talk of, of of people that do RPA, right, is that they're, they're, they treat them as people, right? They treat them as kind of like your little assistance, your own little bot to do little tasks that you assigned them to do. So treating them with kind of an identity protocol. >>Then that gives all the authorizations and you kind of leverage all that back end is the way to integrate them into the workforce. Absolutely. It's all about access controls, authentication, authorization. Those are the controls that have been there forever. You're supplying these two new types of identities and you know, the, we're in the privileged access management space, so it used to always be a windows admin or a Unix Linux admin logging into a physical box, right? And so it was about protecting those accounts. But more and more it's about giving a machine and identity and a microservice and identity and how are those things talking to each other? We're protecting, that's all completely automated with dev ops. You think about if I have a, as I moved to the cloud, I want to be able to scale out dynamically, right? Uh, horizontally, vertically. So all of a sudden new servers, virtual servers or containers just popping up automatically. >>You have to be able to control the access to all those automatically, dynamically on the spot, and then they shrink back down. You need to get rid of all that, right? So the automation that's come into our space, although the same, I'm still trying to do authentication, authorization, same type of privilege access controls we've been doing for 30 years, but how they're applied in this new world is much different right now. What about then you layer you layer on top of that zero trust, so I definitely want to identify, but I have zero trust and I'm presuming at some point in time you might end up either being a bad guy or some bad guy's going to come in via your credential. How does the zero trust piece fit on top of the identity kind of management? It's really why we're talking about identity centric security now is because you can't, you, you have to assume somebody on your network. >>You can't trust all those perimeter controls that are there. The reality is they're going to get in and so that identity centric security starts at that access layer and not not trusting just because you got onto the network that, Oh, sure, here you go. You can, you can do whatever you want. That's where zero trust comes in. I don't, every time I want to get access to a piece of data or a system, et cetera, I need to do that F indication that authorization apply, that multi-factor. Those are all identity centric controls that result in this, this journey towards the zero trust world. It's, it's funny, uh, I've sat down with Mike and Caesar, uh, for scout and you know, he talks about when they do the little sniff on all the little devices that are plugged into the networks and it's usually multiples back of what people think are on the network, especially remote location. >>People are plugging stuff in. But then too, you know, like you said in the machine, identify, you know, what should a logic cam do and how should it act. And as soon as it starts acting and asking for things in accounts payable, maybe that's not necessarily what a lot to take camera wants do or should be doing. Yeah. Yeah. And so first there's like knowing what that device is giving you an identity so he know what it is, know what it should be doing. It has a role, it has specific access and authorization rights that are granted to it. So the logic camera, if I know what that camera is, you have an identity. I know what it's supposed to be doing. I should be able to restrict the access it has to just what it needs to do. Right. Rather than it's got root account to do whatever or some God account to create, you know, like those are the kinds of controls we have in place. >>And it's just logical identity management controls that have been there forever. But you're a, once you can identify those devices connected, you can, you can give them those, you know, limited. There's talk about least privilege, right? That's again, a 30 year old control, but giving at least privilege on just what it should do and nothing more. And do you see in the future just more and more kind of multifactor, uh, validation points that we'll have to get added to the, to the process as we move from single factor to factor, however many factors is going to take? For sure. Yeah. I mean, so the multi-factor, cause there's one thing are you authenticate yourself at the front door, right? So that's what most authentication is, but there's this concept of continuous authentication. You're the trust in that, uh, that initial authentication degrades as your session goes on. >>Right? So the longer I've had a session open, you know, is that still that same person or that same service that is clicking away at the keyboard there? There's cool stuff, wrong continuous authentication where there they can tell it's still the same person based on the cadence. They click on the keyboard, other biometric methods, the swiping I do on my phone and stuff like that. So there's ways to have continuous concepts now called continuous authentication. Right? And so I absolutely see that those behavior based, uh, types of, uh, of authentication. You're going out through a user's entire session. So I want to shift gears a little bit. One of the things that amazes me about this show, and I don't know when it was small, but it's been big ever since I've been coming. It's right, there's so many vendors here, there's so many companies in this and there's so many kinds of stories that a lot of really enthusiastic people work in booths that are screaming at you to come over and tell you all the great things they do. >>From a marketing point of view, you're, you're the SVP marketing. How do you, you know, kind of package your messaging, how do you kind of break through the clutter? What advice do you give to, to buyers, um, to help them kind of navigate what is a, a very large, loud and complex system? Yeah, it's a, it's a complex battle, right? So you have to be able to, because there are so many different technologies here, uh, in, in the security arena, uh, we're all fighting for the same share of wallet in a sense. Right? And so first you have to identify yourself with something people recognize a market that people recognize like identity, privilege, access management, endpoint security, you know, et cetera. But then you have to differentiate yourself within that market, right? So you've got to add something to the market space I'm in to that gives a little twist. >>So for us, it's identity centric, privilege access management and that, you know, we suppose that against Balt centric or you know, something else that we've tried to put the other bets. So you try to, in your message, you got to categorize what's the space I'm in and how do I differentiate? And in something as short and brand-able as possible. And then you got to have this kind of ongoing solutions, partnership relationship with, with your clients, right? Because this is not something you're going to be switching things out that frequently and, and, and, and the landscape and the threats evolve and change so rapidly. I think we've had a number of people come on to publish this report or that report, his report, he's come out every six months and there's actually the online version so he can keep up with what happened today or what happens tomorrow. >>So not an easy, uh, not an easy kind of marketing challenge to stay relevant, stay connected and state stay really in people's mind. Well, and you know, there's, there's awareness aspects to it and it is really just what really helps is you just create as many happy customers as you can. Right? I mean, you're amazed at the how connected this industry actually is. I mean, the attendees that are coming to this conference, they know each other. They've been coming here from here. It's just like we have. Right, right. And a word of mouth between people who have used your technology, they share that with something else. I mean the security industry as big as it is, it's, it's super interconnected. One person goes from one company to the other and so tons of business just comes from word of mouth, referral, etc. So the happier you can keep your customers, the more uh, you know, mind share. >>You can get up there. Okay. Last question before I let you go. We just like to say we just had row hit on one of the topics was they just got bought by a symphony. I think it's symphony, a private equity firm. Um, we met the other night at a, at a cocktail party put on by Tom Thoma Bravo and you were at Centrify before they came in. And after, you know, I think some people are kind of confused, you know, what is private equity, how does it impact the company? So wonder if you can kind of share, you know, how that transition has come along and you know, kind of give us an update on what's going on at Centrify and where you guys are going next. Yeah, so we were acquired about a year and a half ago now, uh, by private equity and you know, they basically, they take later stage companies and uh, help them get, uh, profitable, uh, they increased value and then they look for going, taking that company IPO or selling it off, et cetera. >>Right? But it's really about looking for opportunities, uh, in existing market with larger companies, the venture capitalists will go after smaller, much larger risks. These are bigger dollar amounts, right? Larger companies. But then they, they look about how to optimize. They're very sophisticated on how to run a B to B business. Tama Bravo happens to have a huge investment in security and it comes like eight or 10 companies there the other night. Yeah. So they, they realize that this is a hot space right now. So they've, if they can take a company and create value that they realize that there's more stuff popping up. There's probably money being invested in. And one of the things that, but not all private equities created equal. Yes, they are about all about kind of optimizing, increasing value. But what we really found with Tom or Bravo is they're interested in investing in that company, looking at other folds and acquisitions, et cetera. >>And that's a part of a strategy for me as a, as a manager and an I'm part of the executive team. When you're backed, they don't have the money to go after acquisitions. Uh, like that they, you know, they make these smaller investments. We're talking about Bravo actually does have the capital to look at other things that can be immediately accretive and add to your value. And that's a, a real part of our strategy now that didn't exist before we were owned by PE. I think they spun out a whole nother, another company out of what your technology say. Correct. Exactly. So one of the unique things about our particular acquisition is Centrify was both a privileged access management. And a identity as a service. And I Daz a company and they looked at what we were doing and they said, geez, you're really selling to two different markets and it's two different sales cycles and two different business models. >>We could actually create more value if we split these up and each of you focused on your individual markets. And so that there's a, there's an MQ and a market segment and a wave for IDASS and there's an MQ and a wave, you know, et cetera for Pam. But there's not anything that does both. And that's what Centrify was. So they actually, we, we completely divested of our IDASS capabilities spun off in an entirely separate company called adaptive. And so over the last year, that's was a lot of the work that was going on. It was, was splitting this company, uh, uh, into two. But it really provided us a much more focused to go after the market that we were going after. Well, they wouldn't come in if they didn't see some opportunity to, uh, to pull some more value out that wasn't really being unlocked. Absolutely. Right. Andy, we'll thank for taking a few minutes and uh, and great to catch up and best you for the rest of the show. Awesome. Thanks a lot, Jay. He's Andy. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cube where? At the RSA show in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of theCUBE insights, powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, I'm going to provide a little detail on the recent announcement that Insight Partners was acquiring Veeam for five billion dollars. There was a lot of information on the announcement in press releases and in news articles, so what I really want to focus on is what it means for the industry generally, and for the data protection community specifically. So, very briefly this was a five billion dollar exit for Veeam on top of a five hundred million dollar investment lead by the same Insight Partners last year. I think it had earlier investments, kind of a rent, with an option to buy. New management is being promoted from within, which I think is significant, to replace the two founders. Andrei Baronov and Ratmir Timashev are going to step down after the transition and give up their board seats. Veeam is a fascinating company. It started in the 2006, 2007 time frame, after the two founders, who met in college, formed and sold Aleta software to Quest. Then they started a company called AMUST Software, from which they created Veeam. You never hear about AMUST, but I believe it's the engineering and development arm of Veeam. Now the new CEO of Veeam, Bill Largent told theCUBE that AMUST is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Veeam and it won't effect any of the engineering assets that exist in Prague and in Russia. So this I the thing about Veeam, it's a very closely held company controlled by it's two founders, with a domicile in Switzerland. My understanding is Baronov is, well he's the technical guru, and he's a resident of that country in Switzerland, and the HQ there is very lean, the sizable engineering teams, as they say, is in Russia and Prague. Timashev resides in the US, and he's a marketing genius, who helped create this company, and it's always punched above it's weight class with, epic parties, and great products. Now interestingly, Veeam's rise, it coincided with the ascendancy of VMware. Veeam became the standard backup software for small to medium size companies within VMware shops. Their products are renowned for being simple, and working as advertised, and their customer support is outstanding by all accounts. But the US business lagged, despite the fact that most of VMware's business is in the Americas. You'd think you think if they super glued themself to VMware their Americas business would be higher. So a few years ago they decided to really go hard after the enterprise and they brought in Peter Mckay, from VMware, and he began to build up a US presence. But the enterprise business, it requires a lot of things that were kind of antithetical to Veeam. So think about long sales cycles, expensive sales people, belly to belly selling, with the expectations of, road maps, and clarity around enterprise feature sets. Now McKay was named CEO with Baronov, who continued to run engineering. So it was a bit of a culture clash. You got the sales oriented leader wanting the engineering team to turn on a dime and help close large deals, and satiate partners like HPE and Sysco, and you've got this genius co-leader, slash engineer, with an incredible track record of delivering features that the customer loves. So it really didn't work out and then Veeam scaled back on it's ambitions some what. At it's annual user conference in Miami last year, Ratmir came on theCUBE, and he talked about how Veeam's act one was all about dominance in virtualized environment. Let's listen to what he said about act two and then we'll come back and talk about it >> That was act one, we dominated it, we grew from zero to one billion within 10, 12 years. We added three hundred fifty thousand customers over that time frame, and now it's act two. What is act two? Act two is the, again, the new major industry transformation to a hybrid cloud. What are the similarities? Again, Veeam is in a great position because we're at the right time at the right place with a brilliant product. >> Now what we know is that act two is about a few things, one, as Ratmir said, hybrid cloud, multi cloud management, etcetera. But it's also about an awesome exit for it's two founders. Wow five billion dollars, five x revenue multiple, handing over the reigns is really the third thing this is about and creating more traditional governance structure for Veeam. Now they're moving from a governance structure that was closely held and opaque to one that is still going to be closely held, but ideally somewhat less opaque. Which brings me to inside partners. In the money world, you basically have a spectrum of investors. On the one side you've got banks, who are the most conservative. On the other side you've got VCs, now they're the most aggressive, of course. Now somewhere in the middle, you have private equity firms. Now they traditionally invest in companies, and they squeeze them for EBITDA, and they suck money out. But inside is more of a hybrid. They invest in a number of companies as VCs, they take a portion of the ownership. And to me they're more of a rule of forty PE, meaning it's not just about EBITDA, it's about growth plus EBITDA. So a rule of thirty or a rule of forty PE company, they can dial down EBITDA and go for growth, or dial up EBIT and moderate growth. So it's a great model. So I would expect Insight to bring structure and leadership to Veeam, with the goal of taking the company public at some point, because they like to sell to companies for all cash, I don't see a logical buyer at these kind of price points for this company in this market. It's growing market but it's still not a giant market. All right let's shift gears a little bit and get into some of the ETR data. Here's a narrative they put out recently that, to me, sums it up well. ETR said Veeam is one of the few vendors growing share among customers vs previous surveys in the storage sector. And that said, spending intentions are decelerating and continue to look poor in the largest sectors and Veeam trails Rubrik and Cohesity, although on a larger user base. So you can see by this statement that Veeam is of course doing well, but there are some cracks in the enterprise armor that I want to talk about and drill into a little bit. Now this now this Arline customer quote also, to me, sums up one of the reasons for Veeam's success. What this person said is if I want to do a Veeam back up to the cloud, it's basically point and click, very easy to use. Now I've talked to dozens, if not hundreds of Veeam customers, and they all say the same thing, it just works, that's kind of their motto. So this is the big reason why Veeam has steadily gained gained share over time. Now take a look at this chart, which shows the progression over time of Veeam's progress in terms of what ETR calls market share. Now remember, market share is a measure of pervasiveness in the ETR data set. And you can see, in the data, that Veeam has had a steady rise since ETR started tracking them at critical mass back in 2014. And you can see the steady decline in the survey for Veritas and Commvault and what appears to be, rapid momentum building for Rubrik and Cohesity, two companies that I said in my 2020 predictions breaking analysis that would continue to do well this year. Now notice I had to black out the January 2020 survey, which is ending shortly, so stay tuned for those results. But let's drill into Veeam's performance a little bit more. What this chart shows is a candlestick of net score and market share across all the respondents in the ETR survey for Veeam. Remember net score is a measure of spending momentum that subtracts customers that are spending less, the red, from those spending more, the greens. And it's represented over time by this blue line that you see. You can see that this blue line, it bounces around but it holds steady in the past couple of years pretty generally, and really in that thirty to forty percent range which you see on the left hand axis. Now that yellow line, is market share or pervasiveness, it also continues to climb steadily as I showed you in the previous chart. Now again this is amongst all respondents. Let's now take a look at this chart which isolates Veeam's performance in the largest companies, that enterprise push. Notice the pictures is somewhat choppier. Market share is okay, although unlike the previous chart, it's not steady. This is stunning. Peter McKay left in October 2018, and that's when Veeam really pulled back on it's big enterprise push, and you can see, there's a noticeable and steady drop there based on ETR data. So what's happening here is we are entering a new chapter for Veeam, act two so to speak. With new leadership and new governance. Danny Allen is taking over CTO, he previously ran strategy, Bill Largent is going to be CEO, the HQ is moving into the US. So in my opinon, Veeam's issues in the US have been more execution related than anything else. Veeam is a leader. So partnerships with Nutanix, Sysco, HPE, NetApp, should continue to improve and be somewhat productive, actually largely productive. Let's talk a little bit about Veeam's architecture, and a point of discussion that you often hear in the community. Veeam's a Window's based architecture. Now is that a blessing or is that a curse? Well the pros are that the Veeam team came out of a Windows world, and they know the platform very well. They are amazingly good at adding function, without screwing up performance somewhere else. You saw this a couple years back when they were making a big push on the enterprise and they increased the file sizes, and the number of objects that they could support. Another example is when Veeam added cloud back up, it was a really good product, version one. Unlink many products, when they first tried to port to the cloud, that wasn't the case. Recovery from the cloud is very tricky. Things are out of sync, you got a metadata challenge, and generally Veeam was able to achieve consistent levels of performance with it's cloud product. Now flip side of this, is that if you look at most, if not all, modern architectures today, are based on Linux. And once you start getting into mulit cloud, and cross cloud management, you're going to bump into and be interfacing with lots of Linux based systems. So Veeam is going to have migrate code, and maintaining consistent performance is going to be tougher. But as David Fourier, my colleague points out, there are many many ways to skin a cat, and Veeam's engineering team has really, based on it's track record, has proven that it can solve tough problems, and really deliver a great product consistently. I think the bigger issue and challenge for Veeam again, is execution in the US, and of course the enterprise. Customers in EBC's executive briefing centers, they want to see road maps, and enterprise features, and specials. And so we'll see, if that's something that Veeam has an appetite for. If they do, and I'm one of the incumbents, I'd be worried that Veeam could do a land and expand. Where Veeam isn't as strong in large enterprises, big companies they buy from Veeam. Maybe it's a smaller division, or remote location, but it's not like they don't do business in large accounts, they do. So in a way, they've already landed and they have an opportunity to expand, so that's something to pay attention to. If I'm an enterprise customer, I would be pressing Veeam on it's roadmap, and having them clarify their vision around hybrid and multi cloud management. Will Veeam be more transparent and willing to do specials for the enterprise, and their big partners, who expect them, when they say jump, they expect Veeam to say how high. How will Veeam's culture change, is the other thing I want to focus on. As the two founders step down, are they going to be able to main their engineering ethos, and customer loyalty, and can they figure out the enterprise. I'm a big fan of founder lead companies, when founders leave cultures often change. When founders stay, they're intensely committed, even beyond great CEOs who aren't founders. Look at Michael Dell. He went to the mat to keep his company against the great icon, now look at Dell technologies, after the EMC acquisition, it was completely transformed. Look at Oracle, look at the lengths that Larry Ellison goes to win. Compare that to a great CEO Joe Tucci, when he was at EMC, but you know when he was done, he was done, it was over. It wasn't his baby. So my point is how will this effect Veeam's culture and prospects in the long term. For me the bottom line is the big opportunity's in the US. And that's about execution. And I expect with the move to US HQ, new management, I expect they're going to see consistent market share gains, that's going to continue. The enterprise however, that's going to take longer, it's going to require more patience and more money. And with Veeam transitioning from essentially the two founder's lifestyle business into a company that's really built for an exit, they're going to have more money to invest, greater transparency, I hope, and a path to really build on their past successes. So this Dave Vellante signing out from the latest episode of theCUBE insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everybody and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the queue now here's your host David on tape hello everybody welcome to this cube conversation my name is Dave Volante and I'm here with Dave faithful who's the chief architect of WEEI Dave thanks for coming on the cube thanks for having me so first tell me about WEEI and then I want to understand your role there sure at WTI our chief architect and responsible for driving technology solutions that we work with our customer base on so WI is a value-added reseller supporting fortunate 1,000 enterprise customers it takes us all over the world and supporting their environments and we're typically designing and architecting IT service delivery models for those customers and and aligning those those architectures with their business needs so are you typically like described like the sweet spot of your customer base you mentioned you know the basically large companies and you're interacting you know who's your point of contact is it is it the architect to architect you know who you're talking to it is it's all levels of the IT organization typically from the CIO on down so understanding what the business goals of our customers are and then working with those IT directors IT managers and and IT architecture leads to develop solutions that fit those business models so you know these days you know software-defined data center computing is is as big creating service delivery models that a cloud like in nature whether on pram or in a hybrid environment or a public service or things that our customers are trying to do migrating from that traditional IT architecture to this new software dependent world so we're gonna talk about storage later on but but I've wondered thinking about the top level this the sea level executive in IT is he or he or she are they concerned about storage what's on their mind thought what's top of mind for those guys typically it's really just how do they i tea to deliver value back to the business right how do they make their companies more competitive in the marketplace how did they get the products out to market faster faster than before and faster than our competition so they're trying to leverage IT as a service as a utility and they're trying to create that that that utility model that service delivery model to support their business needs which you know the IT has to be more responsive than ever before they don't have months to get something out they have sometimes days or hours and so they've got to build those models while at the same time right they've got to support their existing traditional environment so they've got this juggling act at the C level that's typically what we see they're worried about how they get there is up to their IT organizations right then and that's where we're helping them to architect those fears yeah so the CIOs that we talk to I think they bought into the cloud narrative of hey you don't want to do this heavy lifting you want to shift those resources to support whatever digital transformation or you know application delivery but to get them from point A to point B and keep the lights on is is obviously challenging so you talked about some of the underlying rip currents and trends you mentioned sddc so why is that important first of all what is it and in your mind how do you guys look at that and why is it so important well so you know suffer to find data center computing is really you know suffer to find anything is really the decoupling of the control plane from the data plane right how can we manage all of this data where it comes from and where it goes from a centralized automated point and so what's important about that is it allows us to provision more quickly than ever before it allows us to make changes more quickly than we before and it allows our data to be more portable than ever before giving us the ability to move information and data on prem to a public service and back be able to replicate and backup data to really any place that we need it to be and then making it more available for our global organizations to be able to get access to it at any time in development environments they can follow the Sun methodology right of being able to have access to that data for development teams all over the world is critically important and you know public services as well as hybrid other cloud delivery models allow them to do that so used to be pretty straightforward we didn't maybe realize at the time but you'd build a basically a an infrastructure stack you'd support an application you'd harden that and it kind of became its own silo as cloud comes into play hybrid cloud now you talk about multi cloud the the the picture gets a lot more complex and you mentioned separating the control plane and the data plane as you go into this you know multi-cloud well first of all multi cloud I've said it's kind of a symptom of multi vendor we sort of just got here but now I think as is often the case in IT people are saying well we have to control this we have to have governance and compliance and security so we we better get IT to come fix this problem is that a viable sort of inherited from my standpoint is that how we got here or is it really been a strategy in your view well I think it's both and I think more mature organizations understand now maybe not at first understand now that there's different reasons to use different services right so it may be that a particular public service has has some you know application environment or some process that is appealing to them maybe it complies with some sort of governance or compliance requirement but there may also be times and there are with most of our customers where they need to keep that information that data on Prem for whatever reason either due to security policy or due to compliance reasons or something else and so organizations started to figure out they couldn't just put everything all in one place right even if it was a public service that they needed the ability to have some data in different places and they needed that to be affordable and so that was the challenge and and as organizations started to realize that that hybrid cloud strategy was a sound one they needed the technology to be able to support that and so that's when we when we start taking a look at software-defined solutions we're looking at the ability of those those the solutions to be able to communicate back and forth right how do we move data back and forth what products do we select that allow us to create API connectivity to all those different end points right whether it's a public cloud service or on-prem or both how are we able to fluidly move data back and forth okay so you had and you also had a lot of shadow IT which kind of I feel like IT is beginning to reign in at least from the standpoint of setting standards but okay so you just described this this this state of cloud I'll call it cloud because to to us it seems that you're bringing the cloud experience wherever your data lives could be on Prem could be in cloud vendor a B or C some kind of hybrid structure so how do you bring that cloud experience to wherever your data lives and what role does storage play yep all right so so first there's there's there's a few high-level elements to we'll call it this hybrid cloud model right one is a financial model in a public service say you know we talked about you know the ability to go swipe a credit card and now you've got this instant access to infrastructure you know that's a financial model that is easy to consume right but how do you do that on the pram so we work with different partners to put together those financial models that are similar to public services in an on-prem consumption model and so we can do things like capacity on demand pay for what you need only when you're needed all right expand and contract on primp just like you would in a public service so that financial model is one place to start the second place to start is with the infrastructure and you mentioned storage its orders great example of that so we want to have storage that has the ability to connect out to those public services or other platforms when we need them to when we need it to matter of fact that wer that's that's one of the things that we look at very carefully is what is that you know second third mile approach to implementing all of this how do we automate the movement of that data and the connectivity of all this infrastructure together well we've got to you've got to have some some automation that is customized to your environment because it's it's not a cookie cutter approach and so to be able to develop that automation is what we call that's the second mouth or mail service where we're connecting all of these things so we want to be able to select a storage platform for instance that has API connectivity that we can leverage to connect to you know Microsoft Azure or to AWS or to Google or someplace else and that we want to also be able to connect to our compute platforms that we're leveraging on Prem and so that and our network all right that is on Prem and that is extended out to those public services and does the intelligence enables automation does that live inside the the infrastructure is it something that you have to bring to it to the table is it a combination or is it is actually intrinsic now to the architectures that are out there it's both so there is more and more of that intelligence coming to the to the hardware being developed into the hardware and you know some of our partners that we work with have done a really good job of building that into their solutions you know HP as an example with some of their storage platforms uses their info site capability to to build intelligence in an AI and machine learning into optimizing their their storage platform and being able to give customers the ability to see problems before they even arise so that's one piece of it and the other piece of it is you know are those api's already written on the platform can we leverage those already do we have to develop that or so have they been developed to work with certain automation platforms that we can leverage so so yeah it's a lot of this built into the infrastructure today and and then how you customize that for your own use case it requires you know some of the experience and and and the capability to actually develop this automation it's interesting David if you go back five six even seven maybe even longer years ago people were really afraid of automation they wanted knobs to turn and so my question is do you see people much more receptive why what what's what's jii do people see much more receptive to automation but what's changed well I think it's it's actually what you just mentioned right people thought that there was this magic dial you know magic knob but they could turn when they wanted infrastructure I want more officially I'll turn it this way I want less infrastructures man it that way not really understanding the effort it took to make that happen in the background and I think that there's more awareness now of what that effort is we see organizations moving resources me you know their people and their skills from traditional IT roles into these automation roles giving them new skills to be able to support all of this ongoing automation requirement to be able to make the the you know the business more responsive so instead of IT organizations being reactive like they used to ie they would receive a request and then they would have to go in and you know architect around that request they're actually building the infrastructure and the automations upfront so when the request comes in it can actually turn that down up so they're building the dial knob by moving those resources into new skill sets well so that's interesting point about the skill sets I mean I've always often said if your main skill set is managing Lunz you really want to update your skill sets to you know find a new job basically so what are people doing are they moving into development are they moving into sort of becoming cloud architects what what would you advise somebody who's traditionally been a a storage admin what's their growth path so that's a that's a good question so yeah it we would advise them to stop managing lawns and to move into you know different automation skill sets different programming understand some of the programming languages out there now like Python and Perl and other things that are commonly used you know and and developing these scripts understand API structures and most of this is open right so if you understand it from a general sense you'll be able to apply it to just about any platform understand automations behind provisioning infrastructure and the tools that are out there that are available to do that and there's a lot of them and we we work with many of them with our customers today and if you can if you can develop those skill sets you'll be able to manage in this new in this new hybrid you know I'd seen hybrid cloud world and we talked about DevOps a lot of talking about infrastructure is Co but I still feel as though in many organizations that love your thoughts on this it's still early days in terms of you know there's probably more ops dev than there is DevOps but but are you are you what are you seeing in terms of the uptake of that DevOps philosophy programmable infrastructure and the skill sets to be able to support that within some of your larger customers I think there's a separation there right when most organizations think about DevOps Terr thinking about you know their products or their their you know their own internal application development and I think their that when we talk about infrastructure automation and provisioning it's generally in most enterprise environments completely separate teams right and and yes a lot of that is coming together but you've got one organization an IT that is creating a service for those DevOps teams right in the past you know when we talk about shadow IT it was those DevOps teams who were swiping the credit card because they need is something instuments they could develop something and then share it globally and now we've got ite organizations whose who stop fighting that and what they really want to do is be able to deliver that same experience in a control secured and you know financially viable way right to be able to support those DevOps initiatives let's talk about your partnership with HPE what are you guys doing with HHH PE you kind of what sets you guys apart yeah sure so WEEI is an HPE Platinum Partner and we work with HP across really their entire portfolio and we understand their initiatives around data center automation creating a hybrid IT environment some of the solutions that they have around the financial models for instance HPE green link is a way to create those those cloud like financial models in an on-prem environment and extend that as a public services so that you have that same experience of swiping that credit card and a public service so we work with with HPE is you know they're they're a leader in IT infrastructure and have been for a long time and across all of their product lines for compute storage and network how important is Green Lake and and how differentiable is it from you know other companies who who do this is it pretty much table stakes to be able to have that sort of pay by the drink is there anything unique and different about Green Lake was from your perspective yeah I mean there is right essentially it's giving organizations the ability to have that public service experience on Prem and consume what they need when they need it and then more importantly capitalize that if they really want to alright so you know many organizations are are trying to juggle that in that capital expense versus operational expense you know budget and so Green Lake allows them to have that subscription like experience in a capitalized model which is important for my organization's okay but so too is it their choice to go up extra capex is that was so they can okay and I can understand why some organizations would want to do that maybe there's tax benefits etc okay good I want to ask you about sort of clouds if it's so huge mega trend you know one of the super powers as they say we've heard the stats 80% of the sort of install base is still on Prem 20% only 20% has moved to the cloud we talk a lot about cloud 2.0 kind of a play on on web 2.0 what is that well it's containers it's hybrid it's it's multi cloud if you're thinking about the next era of cloud what do you see is 2.0 if we can kind of define that on the fly boy and on camera forevermore those reasonable parameters hybrid you know multi-cloud containers maybe infrastructure as a code yeah I mean so or is it all bs just acronym soup in our industry no I don't think it's BS right I think that any so let's take a look at the evolution of cloud right if you looked at it say into you know five years ago maybe 10 years ago everyone said that'll never happen we would never put our data out there it's not secure and then you looked at it say you know five years ago or less everyone was going to cloud we're just going to move everything we're going to dr everything over the and we're gonna get rid of all our data centers you know and then a couple years ago everyone said well hi hold on a second that that's probably not realistic right there's a use there's sometimes you know there's going to be a need to keep some data on prom either you know for compliance reasons or for technology reasons I mean we need the state of close to us for other things who knows what it is so hybrid cloud right and our abilities create all of these processes internally those automations to make that on-prem experience feel the same as it would in a public service is is where most enterprises have realized they need to be right so that's kind of been the journey to get here now I think that that that hybrid cloud experience that organizations are making these investments into right now it's probably well they're where they will be for the next five to ten years right and what comes after that you mentioned multi-cloud before right and I think that's probably a realistic expectation right as the commoditization of everything NIT occurs I this is just you know my speculation that that that may occur in the cloud as well right and so as the affordability and as you know the the the network performance and the cost of that ability comes down and and more and more commoditized there'll be fewer and fewer reasons to make those on-prem investments and so I think a multi cloud strategy becomes realistic for many organizations who already started that but got some stuff in Google we got some stuff in the drawer got some stuff in AWS but as we can make the platforms that our applications are running on kind of agnostic across cloud it's just another service sorry and and and organizations are going to go for the lowest costs and you know lowest risk environment if I can containerize most of my applications and I can move them from cloud to cloud because containers are very portable why wouldn't I do that I think that's where I said where it could possibly go within the next you know decade yeah if you can create that consistent experience across cause you and I have talked about this just in terms of the the big hyper cloud guys have have taken labour cost out of the equation and now they can charge you that convenience but your you believe that you can actually close that gap with on-prem infrastructure and I've often said that the traditional companies event the tech vendors they don't have to match the cloud capabilities they just have to be cloud like they can it can be good enough and and so my question is did you buy that and have they at least close the gap to the point where you can do a lot of the things that you can get in the in the public cloud and not have to pay for the automation so you can sort of replicate those substantially on print so so I agree right and here's here's an example of how I think that is happening if you look at what for instance Microsoft is doing without your stack all right what is that your stack it's the ability to extend you know Microsoft Azure cloud on pram by putting it in your data center now I've got this consistent platform across multiple locations on Prem and the cloud 8 OS is doing the same thing so that tells me that they also believe hybrid is going to be around for a while otherwise they wouldn't put effort into developing this platforms right to extend their own platform to your to your data center so another things is your question but I that's-- example to me of why I think hybrid is the way that most organizations are going and that the the industry in general including those those hyper scalars believe that that this is gonna be around for a while I'm glad you brought up Microsoft because they're fascinating example they everybody talks about the innovators dilemma and you would think that Microsoft was a company that was going to struggle with that what they've clearly figured out and they were early on with with Azure stack at the early point it's about the control plane the data plane and being able to have that consistent experience across clouds so ok so my takeaway is so infrastructure still is important these days gonna all these new emerging workloads you know matter there's it's it's also important to be able to replicate substantially that cloud experience on Prem in hybrid and that kind of sets up this really this new architecture I wonder if you could kind of summarize your vision of what new architecture looks like over the next you know five 10 years well I'll say it once again the you know the way to how do i summarize this developing an automated IT service delivery model that is cloud like in nature on prem and as well as extending that to public services and creating a single experience for your for your for your user base is where IT organizations are trying to put their effort today that's how they're trying that's what they're trying to get you for the future at least for the next five years or so creating a hybrid cloud environment is is the way that they're going to accomplish that who they choose as public services is generally a business decision it's not as much a technical decision but what they put on Prem has got to be able to you know to work with all of those environments and that sort of sort of summarizes what I think of cloud to dotto we haven't even talked about the edge but that's a whole another equation but the idea of leaving the data where it is if that makes sense and then shipping code to data is something this and building out massive distributed networks that actually talk to each other that is a great vision they have you've been an awesome guest thanks so much for coming on the queue really appreciate your time thanks for having me you're welcome and thank you for watching everybody this is Dave a latte we'll see you next time

>> From Tavern on the Green in Central Park, New York, it's theCUBE, covering Veritas Vision Solution Day. Brought to you by Veritas. (robotic music) >> We're back in the heart of Central Park. We're here at Tavern on the Green. Beautiful location for the Veritas Vision Day. You're watching theCUBE, my name is Dave Vellante. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise, we got the CEO of Veritas here, Greg Hughes, newly minted, nine months in. Greg, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> It's great to be here Dave, thank you. >> So let's talk about your nine. What was your agenda your first nine months? You know they talk about the 100 day plan. What was your nine month plan? >> Yeah, well look, I've been here for nine months, but I'm a boomerang. So I was here from 2003 to 2010. I ran all of global services, during that time and became the chief strategy officer after that. Was here during the merger by Semantic. And then ran the Enterprise Product Group. So I had all the products and all the engineering teams for all the Enterprise products. And really my starting point is the customer. I really like to hear directly from the customer. So I've spent probably 50% of my time out and about, meeting with customers. And at this point, I've met with a 100 different accounts all around the world. And what I'm hearing, makes me even more excited to be here. Digital transformation is real. These customers are investing a lot in digitizing their companies. And that's driving an explosion of data. That data all needs to be available and recoverable and that's where we step in. We're the best at that. >> Okay, so that was sort of alluring to you. You're right, everybody's trying to get digital transformation right. It changes the whole data protection equation. It kind of reminds me, in a much bigger scale, of virtualization. You remember, everybody had to rethink their backup strategies because you now have less physical resources. This is a whole different set of pressures, isn't it? It's like you can't go down, you have to always have access to data. Data is-- >> 24 by seven. >> Increasingly valuable. >> Yup. >> So talk a little bit more about the importance of data, the role of data, and where Veritas fits in. >> Well, our customers are using new, they're driving new applications throughout the enterprise. So machine learning, AI, big data, internet of things. And that's all driving the use of new data management technologies. Cassandra, Hadoop, Open Sequel, MongoDB. You've heard all of these, right? And then that's driving the use of new platforms. Hyper-converged, virtual machines, the cloud. So all this data is popping up in all these different areas. And without Veritas, it can exist, it'll just be in silos. And that becomes very hard to manage and protect it. All that data needs to be protected. We're there to protect everything. And that's really how we think about it. >> The big message we heard today was you got a lot of different clouds, you don't want to have a different data protection strategy for each cloud. So you've got to simplify that for people. Sounds easy, but from an R&D perspective, you've got a large install base, you've been around for a long, long time. So you've got to put investments to actually see that through. Talk about your R&D and investment strategy. >> Well, our investment strategy's very simple. We are the market share leader in data protection and software-defined storage. And that scale, gives us a tremendous advantage. We can use that scale to invest more aggressively than anybody else, in those areas. So we can cover all the workloads, we can cover wherever our customers are putting their data, and we can help them standardize on one provider of data protection, and that's us. So they don't have to have the complexity of point products in their infrastructure. >> So I wonder if we could talk, just a little veer here, and talk about the private equity play. You guys are the private equity exit. And you're seeing a lot of high profile PE companies. It used to be where companies would go to die, and now it's becoming a way for the PE guys to actually get step-ups, and make a lot of money by investing in companies, and building communities, investing in R&D. Some of the stuff we've covered. We've followed Syncsort, BMC, Infor, a really interesting company, what's kind of an exit from PE, right? Dell, the biggest one of all. Riverbed, and of course Veritas. So, there's like a new private equity playbook. It's something you know well from your Silver Lake days. Describe what that dynamic is like, and how it's changed. >> Oh look, private equity's been involved in software for 10 or 15 years. It's been a very important area of investment in private equity. I've worked for private equity firms, worked for software companies, so I know it very well. And the basic idea is, continue the investment. Continue in the investment in the core products and the core customers, to make sure that there is continued enhancement and innovation, of the core products. With that, there'll be continuity in customer relationships, and those customer relationships are very valuable. That's really the secret, if you will, of the private equity playbook. >> Well and public markets are very fickle. I mean, they want growth now. They don't care about profits. I see you've got a very nice cash flow, you and some of the brethren that I mentioned. So that could be very attractive, particularly when, you know, public markets they ebb and flow. The key is value for customers, and that's going to drive value for shareholders. >> That's absolutely right. >> So talk about the TAM. Part of a CEOs job, is to continually find new ways, you're a strategy guy, so TAM expansion is part of the role. How do you look at the market? Where are the growth opportunities? >> We see our TAM, or our total addressable market, at being around $17 billion, cutting across all of our areas. Probably growing into high single digits, 8%. That's kind of a big picture view of it. When I like to think about it, I like to think about it from the themes I'm hearing from customers. What are our customers doing? They're trying to leverage the cloud. Most of our customers, which are large enterprises. We work with the blue-chip enterprises on the planet. They're going to move to a hybrid approach. They're going to on-premise infrastructure and multiple cloud providers. So that's really what they're doing. The second thing our customers are worried about is ransomware, and ransomware attacks. Spearfishing works, the bad guys are going to get in. They're going to put some bad malware in your environment. The key is to be resilient and to be able to restore at scale. That's another area of significant investment. The third, they're trying to automate. They're trying to make investments in automation, to take out manual labor, to reduce error rate. In this whole world, tape should go away. So one of the things our customers are doing, is trying to get rid of tape backup in their environment. Tape is a long-term retention strategy. And then finally, if you get rid of tape, and you have all your secondary data on disc or in the cloud, what becomes really cool, is you can analyze all that data. Out of bound, from the primary storage. That's one of the bigger changes I've seen since I've returned back to Veritas. >> So $17 billion, obviously, that transcends backup. Frankly, we go back to the early days of Veritas, I always thought of it as a data management company and sort of returned to those roots. >> Backup, software defined storage, compliance, all those areas are key to what we do. >> You mentioned automation. When you think about cloud and digital transformation, automation is fundamental, we had NBCUniversal on earlier, and the customer was talking about scripts and how scripts are fragile and they need to be maintained and it doesn't scale. So he wants to drive automation into his processes as much as possible, using a platform, a sort of API based, modern, microservices, containers. Kind of using all those terms. What does that mean for you guys in terms of your R&D roadmap, in terms of the investments that you're making in those types of software innovations? >> Well actually one of the things we're talking about today is our latest release of NetBackup 812, which had a significant investment in APIs and that allow our customers to use the product and automate processes, tie it together with their infrastructure, like ServiceNow, or whatever they have. And we're going to continue full throttle on APIs. Just having lunch with some customers just today, they want us to go even further in our APIs. So that's really core to what we're doing. >> So you guys are a little bit like the New England Patriots. You're the leader, and everybody wants to take you down. So you always start-- >> Nobody's confused me for Tom Brady. Although my wife looks... I'll stack her up against Giselle anytime, but I'm no Tom Brady. >> So okay, how do you maintain your leadership and your relevance for customers? A lot of VC money coming into the marketplace. Like I said, everybody wants to take the leader down. How do you maintain your leadership? >> We've been around for 25 years. We're very honored to have 95% of the Fortune 100, are our customers. If you go to any large country in the world it's very much like that. We work with the bluest of blue-chips, the biggest companies, the most complex, the most demanding (chuckling), the most highly regulated. Those are our customers. We steer the ship based on their input, and that's why we're relevant. We're listening to them. Our customer's extremely relevant. We're going to help them protect, classify, archive their data, wherever it is. >> So the first nine months was all about hearing from customers. So what's the next 12 to 18 months about for you? >> We're continuing to invest, delighted to talk about partnerships, and where those are going, as well. I think that's going to be a major emphasis of us to continue to drive our partnerships. We can't do this alone. Our customers use products from a variety of other players. Today we had Henry Axelrod, from Amazon Web Services, here talking about how we're working closely with Amazon. We announced a really cool partnership with Pure Storage. Our customers that use Pure Storage's all-flash arrays, they know their data's backed up and protected with Veritas and with NetBackup. It's continually make sure that across this ecosystem of partners, we are the one player that can help our large customers. >> Great, thank you for mentioning that ecosystem is a key part of it. The channel, that's how you continue to grow. You get a lot of leverage out of that. Well Greg, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Congratulations on your-- >> Dave, thank you. >> On the new role. We are super excited for you guys, and we'll be watching. >> I enjoyed it, thank you. >> All right. Keep it right there everybody we'll be back with our next guest. This is Dave Vellante, we're here in Central Park. Be right back, Veritas Vision, be right back. (robotic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington D.C., it's theCube, covering .Next conference. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> We're back, this is Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman, and this the wrap of .Next, Nutanix's customer event, #NEXTConf and this is theCube, the leader in the live tech coverage for enterprise technology. Stu, second day. I got to say, Nutanix has always done a good job, innovative venues, they do funky, fun stuff with marketing, we haven't seen the end of it. We have another keynote today, there's a keynote tomorrow morning, big names, Bill McDermott's here, we just saw Peter MacKay, Chad Sakac is here. Who am I missing? >> Stu: Diane Greene >> Diane Gree was up yesterday. >> Y'know, thought leaders, had the CEO of NASDAQ on this morning Dave, y'know really good customers, thought leaders, Nutanix always makes me think a little bit, which I really enjoy. My fourth one of these Dave, usually by the fourth show I've gotten to, it's like I've seen it. Have we made progress, where are we going? >> I thought Sunil Podi's comment was really interesting, he said, "Look, we saw the trends, "we knew that hardware was going down." I mean, they're essentially admitting that they were a hardware oriented company, infrastructure company, we saw what was happening to infrastructure and hyper-converge, and we could just packed it up then, sold the company for a bunch of money, there were rumors floating around, you know they were pre-IPO, they easily could have sold this thing for a billion plus, all could have cashed out and made a buncha dough, and they said, "Y'know what, we're going to do something "different, we're going to go for it." You got to love the ambition, and so many companies today just can't weather that independent storm. I mean, you've seen it over and over and over again. The last billion dollar storage company that remained independent was NetApp, that was 14 years ago, now Nutanix isn't a storage company, but look around here, look at the analysts, a buncha storage guys that have grown up, and it's to me, Stu, it's a representation of what's happening in the marketplace. Storage as we know it is going away, and it always has transformed, y'know it used to be spinning disc drives, then it was subsystems, then it was the SAN, now it's evolving, these guys call it invisible infrastructure, call it whatever you want, but it's moving toward infrastructure as code, which is just a stepping stone to cloud. So your thoughts on the event, the ecosystem, and their position in the marketplace. >> Right, they reach a certain point, they've gone public, can they keep innovating? Look at a number of announcements there, we spent a lot of time talking about the new CloudZi service out there. >> Si? >> Zi. >> Zi, zi, sorry, you got it. (chuckles) >> Pronunciation of some of these, "it's Nutanix, right?" >> Nutonix, Nutanicks, (chuckles) >> They made jokes about the company last year, but this year, that's product, we're talking vision. The ink is still drying on the relationship with Google, doesn't mean they haven't been working for a while, but where this deal goes, interesting to see where it is six months from now, a year from now, because also Google, small player, I mean it wasn't to be honest, I was at the Red Hat Summit and they had a video of Andy Jassy saying, "We've extending AWS with OpenShift." And you're like wow. Red Hat has a position in a lot of clouds, but for Andy Jassy to make an appearance, Amazon, the behemoth in the cloud, that's good. Look, getting Diane Greene here, I said number one, it gives Nutanix credibility, number two it really pokes at VMware a little bit, she's like, "Oh, I did this before." And everybody's like, "Well, she's here now at Nutanix." Nutanix wants to be, that they've compared themselves to both Amazon, I think we hear it was Sunil or Dheeraj in an analyst session said they "want to be like the A Block." Not the V Block that EMC did, but the Amazon Block for the enterprise, or the next VMware, they talked about the new operating system. It's funny, in a lot of my circles, we've been trying to kill the operating system for a while, I need just enough operating system, I want to serverless and containerize all of these things because we need to modernize, and the old general-purpose processor and general-purpose operating system has come and gone, it's seen its day, but Nutanix has a play there. When I look at some of the things going on, we're talking about microsegmentation Dave, we're talking about multi-cloud and some interesting pieces. I like the ecosystem, I like that balance of how do you keep growing and expand where they can go into, leading the customers, but they're delivering today, they've got real products, they've got real growth, sure they have some challenges as to that competitive back and forth, but you asked Chad Sakac if this reminded him of Dell EMC, and kind of that partnership that they had for years, reminded me a little bit of kind of EMC and VMware too, once EMC bought VMware, VMware, the relationship they had, HP, and IBM, and other companies that they needed to treat as good or better than EMC. They're some of those tough relationships, and Dell with Nutanix, their partner, not only do they do Dell XC, but now they're doing like Pivotal on top of it, they can do Hyper-V deployments, Lenovo's another partner, Nutanix is broadening their approach, there's a lot of options out there and a lot of things to dig into, interesting, they keep growing their customers, keep delighting their customers, it reminds me of other shows we go to, Dave, like Amazon re:Invent, customers are super excited, You tell me about the Splunk conference and the ServiceNow conference where those customers are in there, they're excited, and Nutanix is another one of those, that every year you come, there's good solid content, there's a customer base that is growing and exciting and sharing, and that's a fun one to be part of. >> So, I want to ask you about VMware, it's kind of a good reference model. EMC paid out, I don't know, $630 million for VMware, which was the greatest acquisition in enterprise IT history, no question about it in terms of return. A couple questions for you, you were there at the time, you signed the original NDA between EMC and VMware, kind of sniffed em out. Would VMware's ascendancy been as fast and as successful, or even more successful, without EMC? Would VMware have got there on its own? >> I don't think so Dave, because my information that I had, and some of it's piecing together after the fact is VMware was really looking for that company to help them get to the next state. The fundraising was a little bit different back in 2003 than it was later, but rumors were Semantic was going to buy them. Everybody I talked to, you'd know better than me Dave, if Semantic had bought them, they would have integrated into all their pieces, they would have squashed it, the original talent probably would have fled much sooner. EMC didn't really know what they had, I had worked on some of the due diligence for some of the product integration, which took years and years to deliver, and it was mostly we're going to buy them. Diane had a bit of a tense relationship with Joe Tucci kind of from day one, and it was like okay, you're out there in Palo Alto, we're on the other coast, you go and do your thing, and you grow, and by the time EMC had gotten into VMware a little bit more, they were much bigger. So I think as you said, they're one of the great success stories, EMC did best in a lot of its acquisitions where it either let it ran a division and go, or let it kind of sit on its own and just funded it more, so I think that was a-- >> Well, and the story was always that Diane was pissed because she sold out at such a low price, but that's sort of ancient history. The reason I brought that up is I want to try to draw the parallel with Nutanix today, and come back to what you were saying about the A Block. When you look at Amazon, we agree, they have a lead, whether that lead is five years, seven years, four years, probably more like five to seven, but whatever, whatever it is, it's a lead, it's substantive. Beyond the infrastructure, the storage and the compute, they're building out just all kinds of services, I mean just look at their website, whether it's messaging, on and on and on, there's database, there's AI, there's their version of VDI, there's all this big data stuff, with things like Kinesis, and on and on and on, so many services that are much, much larger than the entire Nutanix ecosystem. So the reason for all this background is does Nutanix need a bigger, can Nutanix become it's ambition, which is essentially to be the next VMware, without some kind of white knight? >> So my answer, Dave, is if you look at Nutanix's ambition, one of the challenges for every infrastructure company today, if you think okay, we've talked about True Private Cloud, Dave, what services can I run on that? How can I leverage that? Look at Amazon, y'know a thousand new services coming every year, look at Google, they've got TensorFlow, really cool stuff, they've got those brilliant people coming up with the next stuff, how do I get that in my environment? Well, Nutanix's answer, coming at the show was we're going to partner with Google, we're going to have that partnership, you're going to be able to plug in, and you want to do your analytics and everything, use GCP, they're great at that, we're not, we know that you need to be able to leverage Google services to do that. The Red Hat announcement that I mentioned before, another way how I can take OpenShift and bridge from my data center and my environment and get access to those services. The promise of VMware on Amazon, yeah we're going to have a similar stack that I can go there, but I want to be able to access those VMware servers. Now, could it suck them eventually into all of Amazon and leave VMware behind? Absolutely, it's tough to partner with Amazon. So, the thing I've been looking at at almost every show this year is how are you tying into and working with those public clouds, we talked about it at VMON, Dave, they have Microsoft up on stage, they have partnerships with the public cloud-- >> David: HPE was up there. >> But the public cloud players, if you're not allowing your customers and the infrastructure that you're building to find ways to leverage and access those public cloud services, which not only are they spending $10 billion a year for each one of the big guys on infrastructure to get all around the globe, but it's all of those new services ahead, moving up the stack. To stitch together that in your own environment is going to be really challenging, how many different software pieces, how do I license it? How do I get it on, as opposed to oh, I'm in the public cloud, it's a checkbox, okay I want to access that, and I consume it as I need it, that consumption model needs to change, so I think Nutanix understands that's directionally where they want to go, I look at the Calm software that they launched and say hey, you want to use TensorFlow? Oh, it's just a choice here, absolutely, go. Where is it and how do I use it? Well, some of these details need to be worked out, as Detu said, "it's not like it's one click for every application, any cloud, anywhere." But that's directionally where they're going to make it easy, so all that cool analytic stuff that we cover a lot on theCube, a lot of that is now happening in the cloud, and I should be able to access it whether I'm in my private cloud or public cloud, and it's just going to be consumption model, whether I have certain characteristics that make it that I'm going to want to have that infrastructure for whether that's governance or locality, we talked to Scholastic yesterday, and they said, "Well when you've got manufacturing "in books, I need things close "to where they're coming off the production line, "otherwise there's things that I'm doing "in the public cloud." So that's there we see, when I talk to companies like I do here, at the Vienna show last year, when I talk to Christian Reilly with Citrix, who had been at Bechtel for many years, there's reasons why things need to live close to what's happening, y'know we've talked a lot about Edge, and therefore public cloud doesn't win it all, I know we had one guest on this week that said, "Right, depending on what industry you're is, "is it a 30/70 mix or a 70/30 mix?" There's a lot of nuance to sort this out, and this is long game, Dave, there's this change of the way we do things is a journey, and Nutanix has positioned themselves to continue to grow, continue to expand, some good ambition to expand on, like the five vectors of support that they have, so I've liked what I've heard this week. >> So in thinking about what we're talking about VMware, the imperative for virtualization was so high in the early 2000's because we were coming out of the dot com bust, IT was out of favor, VMware was really the only game in town, there really wasn't a strong alternative, had by far the best product, Microsoft Hyper-V was sort of in-concept, and KVM and others were just really not there, so there really was no choice, it appealed to 100% of the IT shops, I mean essentially. So I wonder though, today, is the imperative for multi-cloud the same? The fundamental is yes, everybody has multiple clouds. But this industry has lived in stovepipes forever, and has figured out how to manage stovepipes, it manages them by fencing things off. So I wonder is the imperative as high, you could maybe make an argument that it's higher, but I'm still not quite getting it yet, as it was in the early 2000's, where the aspirin of virtualization to soothe the pain of do more with less was such an obvious and game changing paradigm shift. I don't see it as much here, I see people still trying to figure out okay, what is our cloud strategy? Number one, number two is the competition seems to be much more wide open, it's unclear at this time that any one company has a fast-track to multi-cloud. >> I think you've got some really good points there, Dave. A thing that I've pointed out a few times is that one of the things that bothered me from the early days with VMware is from an application standpoint, it tended to freeze my application. I didn't have a reason to kind of move forward and modernize my application. Back in 2002 it was like oh, I'm running Windows NT with a really old application, my operating system going to end of life, well maybe it's time to uplift. Oh wait, there's this great virtualization stuff, my hardware's going end of life too. No, shove it in a VM, let's keep it for another five years. Oh my god, that application sucked then, it's going to suck even more in five years, and workforce productivity was way down. So, the vision for Nutanix is they're going to be a platform that are going to be able to help you modernize your environment and how do we get beyond, is it virtualization, is it containerization, is it a lot of the cloud-native pieces, how does that fit in? Starting to hear a little bit more of it, a critique I'd have on HCI about two years ago was it was the same applications that were in my VMware SAN, not VSAN, but my just traditional storage area network was what was running on Nutanix. We're starting to see more interesting applications going on there, and look, Nutanix has a bullseye on them, there are all the HCI direct replacements, there is the threat of the cloud, and I haven't heard as many SAAS applications living on Nutanix as I do when we talk to all flash-array companies, Dave, every single on of them can roll out, here's all these SAAS deployments on our environment, just scalable environments that build that for the future. I haven't heard it as much from Nutanix. >> So VMware was aspirin , Nutanix originally started as aspirin, and now they're pivoting to vitamin. Who are they up against? Who do you like? Who are the horses on the track? Let's analyze the race and then wrap. >> Yeah, so when Nutanix got into this business, it was well, they're helping VMware environments, it was 100% VMware when they first started that relationship with VMware was really tough, they've lowered that too, they've now got what, 28% is running HV, they've got a little bit on Hyper-V, but they've still got about 60% of their customers are VMware. So VMware, y'know, huge challenge, VSAN has more customers than anyone in the hyper-convergent infrastructure space, easy, number of customers, but virtualization admin has taken that. Microsoft, huge potential threat, Azure Stack's coming this year, it's been coming, it's been coming, it's really close there, all the server guys are lining up. Microsoft's a huge player, Microsoft owns applications, they're pulling applications into their SAAS offerings, they're pulling applications into Azure, when they launch Azure Stack, even if the 1.0, if you looked at it on paper and say Nutanix is better, well, Microsoft's a huge threat to both VMware, which uses a lot of Microsoft apps, as well as Nutanix. So those are the two biggest threats, then of course, there's just the general trend of push to SAAS and push to public cloud where Nutanix is starting to play in the multi-cloud, as we talked about, and COM and the DR cloud services are good, but can Nutanix continue to stay ahead of their customers? They're ahead of the vast majority of enterprises, but can they convince them to come on board to them, rather than some of these big guys? Nutanix is a public company now, they're doing great, but yeah, it's a big TAM that they're going after, but that means they're going to have a tax from every side of the market. >> I see HCI as one where you got a leader, and that leader can make some good money. I don't see multi-cloud as a winner-take-all market because I think IBM's going to have its play in multi-cloud, HPE has its play in multi-cloud, Dell EMC is going to have its play in multi-cloud. You got guys coming out of different places like ServiceNow, who's got an IT operations management practice, builds business big, hundreds of millions of dollars of business there, coming at multi-cloud, so a lot of different competitors that are going to be going for it, and some of them with very large service organizations that I think are going to get there fair share, so I would predict, Stu, that this is going to continue to be, multi-cloud is going to be a multi-stovepipe cloud for a long, long time. Now, if Nutanix can come in and solve that control plane problem, and demonstrate substantial business value, and deliver competitive advantage, y'know that might change the game. It's difficult at this point in 2017 to see that Nutanix, over those other guys that I just mentioned, has an advantage, clear advantage, maybe from a product standpoint, maybe. But from a resource standpoint, a distribution channel, services organization, ecosystem, all those other things, they seem to me to be counterbalancing. Alright, I'll give you last thought. >> Yeah, so it's great to see Nutanix, they're aiming high, they're expanding into a couple of areas, and they keep listening, so I hope they keep listening to their customers, expand their partnerships, SAAS customers would be really interesting, service provider is something that they've gotten into little bit, but plenty more opportunity for them to go there. Dave, personally for me, to it have been a company I've watched since the earliest days, it's been a pleasure to watch, y'know I think back, right, VMware you said, I think it was a hundred person company when I first started talking to them and Diane Greene, and I look at where VMware went. I've been tracking VMware for now five years, and reminds me a lot of some of those trends, for a 20 person company, I said to hear almost 3000 boggles the mind, I've been to their headquarters a bunch. So it's been fun to watch the Newton army, and they've been loving watching it from our angles. >> Well and these events are very good events, and so there's a lot of passion here, and that's a great fundamental for this company. So I'm a fan, I think it may be undervalued, I think it very well may be undervalued. >> Wall Street definitely doesn't understand this stuff. >> Alright Stu, great working with you this year, (chuckles) this month, this quarter, this month, certainly this show, so great job. I really appreciate it >> Stu: Thanks, Dave. >> There's a big crew behind what Stu and I, and John Ferrier, and Jeff Frick, and others do here. Here today with us Ava, Patrick, Alex, Jay, you guys have had an awesome spring. Brendan is somewhere, I guess Brendan is doing the keynote right now. So, fantastic job, as always, Kristen Nicole and her team, writing up the articles. Jay Johanson back at the controls, Bert with the crowd shots. Everybody, really appreciate all your support, thanks for watching everybody. We'll see you, we got a little break, I think, in the action, cause it's July Fourth, well it's Canada year, or Canada week-- >> Canada Day and Independence Day next week. >> And Independence Day in the United States, and then we'll be at Infor Inforum, second week of July, I'll be there with Rebecca Knight and the crew, so watch for that, check out SiliconAngle.com for all the news, Wikibon.com for all the research, and theCube.net to find all these videos, Youtube.com/SiliconAngle, it's everywhere, if you can't find it, you're not on Twitter, you're not on social. Thanks for watching, everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman, we're out. (lo-fi synthesizer music)

extracting the signal from the noise it's the cube covering vmworld 2015 brought to you by vmware and its ecosystem sponsors now your host John furrier and Dave vellante okay welcome back everyone we are here live in San Francisco for vmworld 2015 SiliconANGLE media's the cube star flagship program we go out to the event and extract the students from noise i'm john furry the founders looking angle to of my coast and partner david lonte co-founder Wikibon calm slipping angles research are my next guess is sanjay poonen executive vice president general manager of vmware's end-user computing great to see you again welcome back to the cube John's pleasure to be here but I got to say one thing I'm waiting for the day when you have the tie and dave has the non-tidal I mean seriously you gotta quit that purple tile no I'm just getting a pleasure to be on your show I happy to wear tie but people would know it's phony baloney but I'm happy cape looks good d looks good in the neck but I'm California gotta be chillax a little bit here are you relaxed you feeling good I'm feeling great okay so you get a big body through your anniversary at vm work this month Wow excited to be here at the show so choice so give us the state of the union au CSAP to vmware now two years air wash huge acquisition we saw your an event you had here in San Francisco with all the top customers you have big name box big time player is working with you guys cloud needs a theme that you guys are really driving hard what's this all about where are we right now in your group and user computing is all the rage developer attraction and DevOps kind of connects the dots where are we with this yeah no I think it's been a fabulous two years we've hired a fantastic team I talked about this in my last show your some of the new people that joined us summative on Bob Jules no awasum were some of the people we promoted from within kit Kohlberg Eric Freiburg and then many of the people in the field we really really put together I think the best end-user computing team in the industry bar none it always starts to the people you know my people values where it's all started secondly we really started to innovate on product that differentiates us from the competition and made the bold move and mobile because mobile is the new desktop we joked internally that you could end user computing without a strategy you got that Josh yes yeah you know so that's in essence what we've done to be invisible and taking up the complexities away that's really the key will you yeah absolutely and making yourself relevant to where the world is going in this digitization of the workplace so we see this as a phenomenal opportunity for us to become the de facto brand in a Switzerland set of proposition you've got apple iOS you've got google android about windows microsoft OS 10 VMware's propositions via Switzerland type of company that can manage and secure all of those devices in very transparent fashion then lead and lead with that mobile story right I mean isn't that part of it yeah no absolutely mobile is the new desktop so it does become the key outcome the people are looking for and our proposition that we talked about last year working at the speed of life being able to go all the way from desktop to Tesla many of those things are really starting to resonate now as we talked to CIOs and so you know 10 at 2010 when we first did the cube six years ago Palmer its laid out the whole manifesto and user computing had a lot of disparate parts some of gods and have left explain to the folks out there and clarify the positioning of end-user computing visa V all the turmoil in the marketplace with customers cloud has got obviously hybrid cloud people I try to get their arms around that virtualization a lot of plumbing going on with SD and Isis and growth there a lot of stuff going on underneath your layer that's going to affect you how do you manage that clarify the positioning and then talk about how you respond to the growth that's going to come out of underneath you and the infrastructure yeah I think Paul Maritz had it right down he's one of the visionaries of our time and as he talked in 2010 that was around the time we actually coined the term workspaces the inwards 12 companies had coined the term mobile workspace and now many of those technologies are coming to bear so much of the demos that Paul actually noah was here at the time Steve Herod showed you know I'm actually sort of sitting on the shoulders of many of those giants in terms of driving this so the time has come now where the desktop virtualization market now is less costly and less complex so we've taken cost and complexity out and that's why now we're taking market share from Citrix and other players in that market in the mobile place we weren't moving fast enough we acquire the leader AirWatch in mobile security and we've now created an ecosystem out of that of the leading application providers that are all partnering at a Salesforce workday Adobe SI p everyone in the app space the telco providers players like a TMT vodafone singtel partnering with us and then the security players like palo alto networks of all embraced AirWatch and then we actually created some blue technologies that really bring the desktop and the mobile together like identity management identity as a service is becoming one of those very critical like critical items that's a life blood that ties desktop and mobile together because you're your device now becomes your second factor of authentication right you can use your fingerprint or retina scan all of these now really coming in a mature fashion so we're seeing huge growth out of particularly AirWatch side I think sixty percent last last quarter path to profitability I believe in 2016 no Pat's talking about it Carl's talking about at jonathan's talking about Joe Tucci's talk of everybody's talking about your business so what's driving that growth you just talked about that ecosystem that's got to be a lot of the leverage but maybe help us unpack deck wrote a little bit I think it has been and I'm biased so obviously next to VMware being acquired by emc one of the best acquisitions of modern you know last 18 months in enterprise software we were diligent just the same way EMC a treated VMware to be somewhat separate and independent we kept AirWatch fairly dependent for the first six months and gradually began the integration because there was a motion that Alain de Biron John Marshall had in the context the way they ran their what's that we did not want to break and then over time in the second half of last year in the first half of this year we began to get two parts of VMware that we do well in to play the value side of big deals so we start to participate in elas now where larger conversations with customers the big accounts the volume site are the transaction partners our channel partners 75,000 partners of VMware now have an opportunity to take this mobile solution as a door-opener the CIO but remember now we're bringing together horizon on the desktop site air watching the mobile side with glue types of technologies like identity so the proposition just got like one plus one equals like 111 and that's a huge often you mentioned he'll I mean huge year renewal year in 2016 so that's going to be a tailwind it cloud-based solution around one of the reasons with why I watch it was there with a leader in cloud-based mobile John and Alan were very smart and creating a cloud-based solution not to say that they can't deploy on premise but its cloud first so think Salesforce in a world where everyone else looks like a siebel so we were very astute basically saying we want to look at a way by which the subscription revenue starts to become a flywheel yeah so I want to ask you about business mobility that's a theme that you guys have been big big on your ace application configuration I think it's called or yeah happy creating for the enterprise you had Salesforce box cisco workday and a bunch of other partners showing nsx identity the hard stuff the stuff that you will think about i was there at the event and I want you to compare that visa V some news at hit today with apple and cisco partnering on iOS traffic and prioritizing traffic for iOS apps on cisco hardware yeah which is essentially deep packet inspection looking at the routes and giving them a fast lane if you will that seems to be the trend this consumerization where new Apple examples saying okay differentiate with apple stuff versus Android are the business people thinking about that that way are we looking at nsx innovating under the hood explain the consumerization of business mobility why that's relevant and how hard it is when some things that you guys are doing we coined the term john consumer simple meets and a prize secure and you hear about that more tomorrow in my keynote which i encourage all your viewers to come to tomorrow the clock at nine o'clock there's some very special in huge news hint at and little bit but let's bring that together because who is one of the best at consumers simplicity today Apple okay and we basically are Google and much of what they do too but we took basically a strong partnership with apple and dialed it further and and his apples talked about publicly they have a group of enterprise partners where one among a very few 30 40 50 that they're working with in the EMM space and we investigated meaning enterprise mobile manager okay guy and as we we did that we also then looked at all the apps players that were very key to this mobile cloud ecosystem box you know native people exactly these are folks who are building a cloud-based mobile set of applications and we signed all of them up to this need of integration called app config with enterprise that the device operating system vendors like Apple and Google and us invented now what's happening is you're starting to see that ecosystem getting stronger so actually it's awesome because the apps that were announced today in the cisco apple announcement were WebEx spark the same applications i build laughs and fig yes for so we actually copying you guys well no they actually joining the ecosystem so i think it's awesome when you have an IBM in the ecosystem of vmware in the ecosystem now is cisco on the ecosystem it's amazing there you know there's lots of players we partner with SI PE last you're gonna see us doing more with them so our goal is to ensure that the lead players whether it's an applications world whether it's the networking world what's the security world start plugging into appropriate platform I remember the proposition of vmware though is to be Switzerland so we have to build strong relationships with apple with Google and Microsoft Windows 10 because they're all viable ecosystems in the post-pc world well of course you want to be neutral because you want to have you know rising tide as you said but your announcement also highlighted box docusign was in their AT&T you talk about some cool things I can split outspent reports by having an iphone so the rant random example but the but it highlights a new way of doing things right but i thought i asked her the question those are cloud native companies mean box workday mean they were born in the cloud if you will but what about the enterprises that aren't they have a lot of legacy that's a problem right so it's not easy to be cloud- talk about the challenges there and the opportunities how you guys are addressed i love that word because the each side of that coin is a challenging the opportunity so when we go to traditional enterprises they have client server applications or all browser applications that they want us to real deployment and you'll hear my keynote tomorrow a very key phrase any application on any device so you've got a client-server application and old browser application or native mobile app we can deliver into any device you pick your device you've got a traditional windows laptop at in client a mac OS and Android and iOS or a tesla with running some kind of you know maybe android inside it we can deploy those applications on any device and that requires the combination the technology we have from a horizon and AirWatch so what do we do in those traditional applications we virtualize them we can either virtualize the desktop or the app and deploy them onto at incline we think john the future is thin client computing where you know your glass that you present on is going to be like the glass the Corning makes us projectable and this phone becomes your remote control into your entire life so I love this conversation because there's so much talk in this business Gardner has bimodal IT IDC has the third platform and and but what you just described is doesn't doesn't say old stuff over here and new stuff over there it says extend the client-server apps the 19-year old legacy apps and allow them to participate in this cloud native cloud native doesn't mean throw away the old stuff and start with a blank piece of paper I wonder if you could first of all do you agree with that and what if you could talk about that as a strategy it's a very important strategy because if you are a new company like an uber or Netflix you don't have legacy infrastructure you can start completely new on a cloud native all cloud apps but for the majority of global 2000 companies they have existing applications client-server primarily some running in all browsers ie8 ie9 and you've got to bring those apps to the new world so we see the world moving clearly to mobile and html5 long term but there's still going to be many of those applications 3d applications for example you go to many of our large manufacturing customers they've got jet engine parts or parts of various different manufacturing processes that are still not yet html5 or mobile apps so bringing those old world of apps to a Chromebook or to an iOS device is something we can magically do but for these native mobile apps you want to make it one touch so the benefit of what we had with app configures now with one-touch secured by air watch you can now automatically get access to Salesforce or DocuSign or box this is the best of both worlds for the new apps single touch easy seamless access those apps for the old world world of apps you can seamlessly virtualize them in other words abstract them and then send them over to the ecosystem is critical in all of this and and a lot of times we see this trend toward vertical integration we watch what Oracle's do and you see what Amazon's doing the e così i'm hearing the ecosystem is still vital to your strategy absolutely and the ecosystem takes various different forms the device operating system players the system integrators the security players people like Paul all tanks and then in this world apps players are really really important I talked last year about SI p we had many new apps in that and you know just a small little hint tomorrow at nine o'clock you're going to see a major ecosystem player on stage with us never in the history of the world I don't want to blow the cat out of the bag and I want every one of your viewers gonna be big my lap gonna be huge so you got to come there okay so ecosystem just real quick profitable good economics people making money how's that economics work yeah you know via MERS all about ecosystem right you go to the show floor and vmworld has got thousands including companies that compete with us what you got to do is ensure that you're open and you allow even competitors to integrate with you ok I've got competitors that I compete with in my part of the business they've got to integrate with vsphere vice versa I've got to make sure that I can play in a heterogeneous world with a variety of companies that might compete in the STD sea world and part of the magic of doing this is to ensure that the ecosystem is proliferating but you have some platform player that's what's made vm VMware successful 600,000 greatest infrastructure company balls out I have box again to wrap here so I have a final question then I have a final final question because I need to get two questions in first api api f occasion as a term that we've been kicking around the openstack cloud community coined by google's Craig mcluckie on the cube it's been kicking around but API making your api's available if you overdo it you could cause some problems but you're mentioning interacting with of all these apps your take on that and the second final final question is how do you view DevOps do you care you're looking down at it saying go faster or you're agnostic what are you guys doing specifically around this API ification trend yeah i mean the devops in particular they're both of a related questions let me cover them in sort of a quick sequence everything that we should do as a platform you're a platform if you create a service-oriented architecture that allows others to plug into you so when we talk about app config for the enterprise part of what we did was created an API set with the device operating system players like Apple Google is an open it's an open standard that all EMS can can embrace and now then we natively integrate sales force or workday or essay p into that so the api's are absolutely important in every layer of vmware whether it's the desktop side was the mobile side with its SDDC we live by those principle as a platform company no doubt then as you think about DevOps there's aspects of now the management complexity in the cloud world that needs rethought because this isn't systems management the old way in which the client-server were looked at it DevOps really has a very key way which you can go from tested Evra production where you've got multiple clouds you've got federated clouds and we've got to make sure and this is something that we use internally a lot of our AirWatch solutions that are deployed because they're cloud first have DevOps built into them build an integration built between AirWatch and the management tools of vmware their customers who asked us to integrate in the service now this whole management platform the next generation mobile cloud management platform is going to have DevOps at the key at the heart of it and we think that's a huge opportunity for VMware and for our ecosystem so yes or no question senior management's behind DevOps we are absolutely behind everything that drives in the ecosystem DevOps is one key part of it but there are many other aspects this is one key part where the management platform is going and we're very very committed to making that I know you got to run to your meeting thanks so much Sanjay put in the general man and your EVP of then use a computer big announcement tomorrow watch his keynote tomorrow at 9am I nair on SiliconANGLE TV the cube is going to be covering all the keynotes then keep watching we'll be right back more with live coverage from San Francisco vmworld 2015 this is the cube with John fair and Dave vellante we'll be right back thanks John