>> Hello and welcome to theCUBE's coverage of International Women's Day. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Got a variety of interviews across the gamut from topics, women in tech, mentoring, pipelining, developers, open source, executives. Stanford's having International Women's Day celebration with the women in data science, which we're streaming that live as well. Variety of programs. In this segment, Meagen Eisenberg, friend of theCUBE, she's the CMO of Laceworks, is an amazing executive, got a great journey story as a CMO but she's also actively advising startups, companies and really pays it forward. I want to say Meagen, thank you for coming on the program and thanks for sharing. >> Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here. >> Well, we're going to get into some of the journey celebrations that you've gone through and best practice what you've learned is pay that forward. But I got to say, one of the things that really impresses me about you as an executive is you get stuff done. You're a great CMO but also you're advised a lot of companies, you have a lot of irons in the fires and you're advising companies and sometimes they're really small startups to bigger companies, and you're paying it forward, which I love. That's kind of the spirit of this day. >> Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. When I think about my career, a lot of it was looking to mentors women out in the field. This morning I was at a breakfast by Eileen and we had the CEO of General Motors on, and she was talking about her journey nine years as a CEO. And you know, and she's paying it forward with us. But I think about, you know, when you're advising startups, you know, I've gathered knowledge and pattern recognition and to be able to share that is, you know, I enjoy it. >> Yeah. And the startups are also fun too, but it's not always easy and it can get kind of messy as you know. Some startups don't make it some succeed and it's always like the origination story is kind of rewritten and then that's that messy middle. And then it's like that arrows that don't look like a straight line but everyone thinks it's great and you know, it's not for the faint of heart. And Teresa Carlson, who I've interviewed many times, former Amazon, now she's the president of Flexport, she always says, sometimes startups on certain industries aren't for the faint of heart so you got to have a little bit of metal, right? You got to be tough. And some cases that you don't need that, but startups, it's not always easy. What have you learned? >> Yeah, I mean, certainly in the startup world, grit, creativity. You know, when I was at TripActions travel company, pandemic hits, nobody's traveling. You cut budget, you cut heads, but you focus on the core, right? You focus on what you need to survive. And creativity, I think, wins. And, you know, as a CMO when you're marketing, how do you get through that noise? Even the security space, Lacework, it's a fragmented market. You've got to be differentiated and position yourself and you know, be talking to the right target audience and customers. >> Talk about your journey over the years. What have you learned? What's some observations? Can you share any stories and best practices that someone watching could learn from? I know there's a lot of people coming into the tech space with the generative AI things going on in Cloud computing, scaling to the edge, there's a lot more aperture for technical jobs as well as just new roles and new roles that haven't, you really don't go to college for anymore. You got cybersecurity you're in. What are some of the things that you've done over your career if you can share and some best practices? >> Yeah, I think number one, continual learning. When I look through my career, I was constantly reading, networking. Part of the journey is who you're meeting along the way. As you become more senior, your ability to hire and bring in talent matters a lot. I'm always trying to meet with new people. Yeah, if I look at my Amazon feed of books I've bought, right, it kind of chronicle of my history of things I was learning about. Right now I'm reading a lot about cybersecurity, how the, you know, how how they tell me the world ends is the one I'm reading most recently. But you've got to come up to speed and then know the product, get in there and talk to customers. Certainly on the marketing front, anytime I can talk with the customer and find out how they're using us, why they love us, that, you know, helps me better position and differentiate our company. >> By the way, that book is amazing. I saw Nicole speak on Tuesday night with John Markoff and Palo Alto here. What a great story she told there. I recommend that book to everyone. It goes in and she did eight years of research into that book around zero day marketplaces to all the actors involved in security. And it was very interesting. >> Yeah, I mean, it definitely wakes you up, makes you think about what's going on in the world. Very relevant. >> It's like, yeah, it was happening all the time, wasn't it. All the hacking. But this brings me, this brings up an interesting point though, because you're in a cybersecurity area, which by the way, it's changing very fast. It's becoming a bigger industry. It's not just male dominated, although it is now, it's still male dominated, but it's becoming much more and then just tech. >> Yeah, I mean it's a constantly evolving threat landscape and we're learning, and I think more than ever you need to be able to use the data that companies have and, you know, learn from it. That's one of the ways we position ourselves. We're not just about writing rules that won't help you with those zero day attacks. You've got to be able to understand your particular environment and at any moment if it changes. And that's how we help you detect a threat. >> How is, how are things going with you? Is there any new things you guys got going on? Initiatives or programs for women in tech and increasing the range of diversity inclusion in the industry? Because again, this industry's getting much wider too. It's not just specialized, it's also growing. >> Yes, actually I'm excited. We're launching secured by women, securedbywomen.com and it's very much focused on women in the industry, which some studies are showing it's about 25% of security professionals are women. And we're going to be taking nominations and sponsoring women to go to upcoming security events. And so excited to launch that this month and really celebrate women in security and help them, you know, part of that continual learning that I talked about, making sure they're there learning, having the conversations at the conferences, being able to network. >> I have to ask you, what inspired you to pursue the career in tech? What was the motivation? >> You know, if I think way back, originally I wanted to be on the art side and my dad said, "You can do anything as long as it's in the sciences." And so in undergrad I did computer science and MIS. Graduated with MIS and computer science minor. And when I came out I was a IT engineer at Cisco and you know, that kind of started my journey and decided to go back and get my MBA. And during that process I fell in love with marketing and I thought, okay, I understand the buyer, I can come out and market technology to the IT world and developers. And then from there went to several tech companies. >> I mean my father was an engineer. He had the same kind of thing. You got to be an engineer, it's a steady, stable job. But that time, computer science, I mean we've seen the evolution of computer science now it's the most popular degree at Berkeley we've heard and around the world and the education formats are changing. You're seeing a lot of people's self-training on YouTube. The field has really changed. What are some of the challenges you see for folks trying to get into the industry and how would you advise today if you were talking to your young self, what would you, what would be the narrative? >> Yeah, I mean my drawback then was HTML pages were coming out and I thought it would be fun to design, you know, webpages. So you find something you're passionate about in the space today, whether it's gaming or it's cybersecurity. Go and be excited about it and apply and don't give up, right? Do whatever you can to read and learn. And you're right, there are a ton of online self-help. I always try to hire women and people who are continual learners and are teaching themselves something. And I try to find that in an interview to know that they, because when you come to a business, you're there to solve problems and challenges. And the folks that can do that and be innovative and learn, those are the ones I want on my team. >> It's interesting, you know, technology is now impacting society and we need everyone involved to participate and give requirements. And that kind of leads my next question for you is, like, in your opinion, or let me just step back, let me rephrase. What are some of the things that you see technology being used for, for society right now that will impact people's lives? Because this is not a gender thing. We need everybody involved 'cause society is now digital. Technology's pervasive. The AI trends now we're seeing is clearly unmasking to the mainstream that there's some cool stuff happening. >> Yeah, I mean, I think ChatGPT, think about that. All the different ways we're using it we're writing content and marketing with it. We're, you know, I just read an article yesterday, folks are using it to write children's stories and then selling those stories on Amazon, right? And the amount that they can produce with it. But if you think about it, there's unlimited uses with that technology and you've got all the major players getting involved on it. That one major launch and piece of technology is going to transform us in the next six months to a year. And it's the ability to process so much data and then turn that into just assets that we use and the creativity that's building on top of it. Even TripActions has incorporated ChatGPT into your ability to figure out where you want when you're traveling, what's happening in that city. So it's just, you're going to see that incorporated everywhere. >> I mean we've done an interview before TripAction, your other company you were at. Interesting point you don't have to type in a box to say, I'm traveling, I want a hotel. You can just say, I'm going to Barcelona for Mobile World Congress, I want to have a good time. I want some tapas and a nice dinner out. >> Yes. Yeah. That easy. We're making it easy. >> It's efficiency. >> And actually I was going to say for women specifically, I think the reason why we can do so much today is all the technology and apps that we have. I think about DoorDash, I think about Waze you know, when I was younger you had to print out instructions. Now I get in the car real quick, I need to go to soccer practice, I enter it, I need to pick them up at someone's house. I enter it. It's everything's real time. And so it takes away all the things that I don't add value to and allows me to focus on what I want in business. And so there's a bunch of, you know, apps out there that have allowed me to be so much more efficient and productive that my mother didn't have for sure when I was growing up. >> That is an amazing, I think that actually illustrates, in my opinion, the best example of ChatGPT because the maps and GPS integration were two techs, technologies merged together that replace driving and looking at the map. You know, like how do you do that? Like now it's automatically. This is what's going to happen to creative, to writing, to ideation. I even heard Nicole from her book read said that they're using ChatGPT to write zero day exploits. So you seeing it... >> That's scary stuff. You're right. >> You're seeing it everywhere. Super exciting. Well, I got to ask you before you get into some of the Lacework things that you're involved with, cause I think you're doing great work over there is, what was the most exciting projects you've worked on in your career? You came in Cisco, very technical company, so got the technical chops, CSMIS which stands for Management of Information Science for all the young people out there, that was the state of the art back then. What are some of the exciting things you've done? >> Yeah, I mean, I think about, I think about MongoDB and learning to market to developers. Taking the company public in 2017. Launching Atlas database as a service. Now there's so much more of that, you know, the PLG motion, going to TripActions, you know, surviving a pandemic, still being able to come out of that and all the learnings that went with it. You know, they recently, I guess rebranded, so they're Navan now. And then now back in the security space, you know, 14 years ago I was at ArcSite and we were bought by HP. And so getting back into the security world is exciting and it's transformed a ton as you know, it's way more complicated than it was. And so just understanding the pain of our customers and how we protect them as is fun. And I like, you know, being there from a marketing standpoint. >> Well we really appreciate you coming on and sharing that. I got to ask you, for folks watching they might be interested in some advice that you might have for them and their career in tech. I know a lot of young people love the tech. It's becoming pervasive in our lives, as we mentioned. What advice would you give for folks watching that want to start a career in tech? >> Yeah, so work hard, right? Study, network, your first job, be the best at it because every job after that you get pulled into a network. And every time I move, I'm hiring people from the last job, two jobs before, three jobs before. And I'm looking for people that are working hard, care, you know, are continual learners and you know, add value. What can you do to solve problems at your work and add value? >> What's your secret networking hack or growth hack or tip that you can share? Because you're a great networker by the way. You're amazing and you do add a lot of value. I've seen you in action. >> Well, I try never to eat alone. I've got breakfast, I've got lunch, I've got coffee breaks and dinner. And so when I'm at work, I try and always sit and eat with a team member, new group. If I'm out on the road, I'm, you know, meeting people for lunch, going for dinner, just, you know, don't sit at your desk by yourself and don't sit in the hotel room. Get out and meet with people. >> What do you think about now that we're out of the pandemic or somewhat out of the pandemic so to speak, events are back. >> Yes. >> RSA is coming up. It's a big event. The bigger events are getting bigger and then the other events are kind of smaller being distributed. What's your vision of how events are evolving? >> Yeah, I mean, you've got to be in person. Those are the relationships. Right now more than ever people care about renewals and you are building that rapport. And if you're not meeting with your customers, your competitors are. So what I would say is get out there Lacework, we're going to be at RSA, we're going to be at re:Inforce, we're going to be at all of these events, building relationships, you know, coffee, lunch, and yeah, I think the future of events are here to stay and those that don't embrace in person are going to give up business. They're going to lose market share to us. >> And networking is obviously very key on events as well. >> Yes. >> A good opportunity as always get out to the events. What's the event networking trick or advice do you give folks that are going to get out to the networking world? >> Yeah, schedule ahead of time. Don't go to an event and expect people just to come by for great swag. You should be partnering with your sales team and scheduling ahead of time, getting on people's calendars. Don't go there without having 100 or 200 meetings already booked. >> Got it. All right. Let's talk about you, your career. You're currently at Lacework. It's a very hot company in a hot field, security, very male dominated, you're a leader there. What's it like? What's the strategies? How does a woman get in there and be successful? What are some tricks, observations, any data you can share? What's the best practice? What's the secret sauce from Meagen Eisenberg? >> Yes. Yeah, for Meagen Eisenberg. For Lacework, you know, we're focused on our customers. There's nothing better than getting, being close to them, solving their pain, showcasing them. So if you want to go into security, focus on their, the issues and their problems and make sure they're aware of what you're delivering. I mean, we're focused on cloud security and we go from build time to run time. And that's the draw for me here is we had a lot of, you know, happy, excited customers by what we were doing. And what we're doing is very different from legacy security providers. And it is tapping into the trend of really understanding how much data you have and what's happening in the data to detect the anomalies and the threats that are there. >> You know, one of the conversations that I was just having with a senior leader, she was amazing and I asked her what she thought of the current landscape, the job market, the how to get promoted through the careers, all those things. And the response was interesting. I want to get your reaction. She said interdisciplinary skills are critical. And now more than ever, the having that, having a set of skills, technical and social and emotional are super valuable. Do you agree? What's your reaction to that and what would, how would you reframe that? >> Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. You can't be a leader without balance. You've got to know your craft because you're developing and training your team, but you also need to know the, you know, how to build relationships. You're not going to be successful as a C-level exec if you're not partnering across the functions. As a CMO I need to partner with product, I need to partner with the head of sales, I need to partner with finance. So those relationships matter a ton. I also need to attract the right talent. I want to have solid people on the team. And what I will say in the security, cybersecurity space, there's a talent shortage and you cannot hire enough people to protect your company in that space. And that's kind of our part of it is we reduce the number of alerts that you're getting. So you don't need hundreds of people to detect an issue. You're using technology to show, you know, to highlight the issue and then your team can focus on those alerts that matter. >> Yeah, there's a lot of emerging markets where leveling up and you don't need pedigree. You can just level up skill-wise pretty quickly. Which brings me to the next question for you is how do you keep up with all the tech day-to-day and how should someone watching stay on top of it? Because I mean, you got to be on top of this stuff and you got to ride the wave. It's pretty turbulent, but it's still growing and changing. >> Yeah, it's true. I mean, there's a lot of reading. I'm watching the news. Anytime something comes out, you know, ChatGPT I'm playing with it. I've got a great network and sharing. I'm on, you know, LinkedIn reading articles all the time. I have a team, right? Every time I hire someone, they bring new information and knowledge in and I'm you know, Cal Poly had this learn by doing that was the philosophy at San Luis Obispo. So do it. Try it, don't be afraid of it. I think that's the advice. >> Well, I love some of the points you mentioned community and network. You mentioned networking. That brings up the community question, how could people get involved? What communities are out there? How should they approach communities? 'Cause communities are also networks, but also they're welcoming people in that form networks. So it's a network of networks. So what's your take on how to engage and work with communities? How do you find your tribe? If someone's getting into the business, they want support, they might want technology learnings, what's your approach? >> Yeah, so a few, a few different places. One, I'm part of the operator collective, which is a strong female investment group that's open and works a lot with operators and they're in on the newest technologies 'cause they're investing in it. Chief I think is a great organization as well. You've got a lot of, if you're in marketing, there's a ton of CMO networking events that you can go to. I would say any field, even for us at Lacework, we've got some strong CISO networks and we do dinners around you know, we have one coming up in the Bay area, in Boston, New York, and you can come and meet other CISOs and security leaders. So when I get an invite and you know we all do, I will go to it. I'll carve out the time and meet with others. So I think, you know, part of the community is get out there and, you know, join some of these different groups. >> Meagen, thank you so much for spending the time. Final question for you. How do you see the future of tech evolving and how do you see your role in it? >> Yeah, I mean, marketing's changing wildly. There's so many different channels. You think about all the social media channels that have changed over the last five years. So when I think about the future of tech, I'm looking at apps on my phone. I have three daughters, 13, 11, and 8. I'm telling you, they come to me with new apps and new technology all the time, and I'm paying attention what they're, you know, what they're participating in and what they want to be a part of. And certainly it's going to be a lot more around the data and AI. I think we're only at the beginning of that. So we will continue to, you know, learn from it and wield it and deal with the mass amount of data that's out there. >> Well, you saw TikTok just got banned by the European Commission today around their staff. Interesting times. >> It is. >> Meagen, thank you so much as always. You're a great tech athlete. Been following your career for a while, a long time. You're an amazing leader. Thank you for sharing your story here on theCUBE, celebration of International Women's Day. Every day is IWD and thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. >> Okay. I'm John Furrier here in theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto. Thank you for watching, more to come stay with us. (bright music)

(bright music) >> Okay, we're back in theCUBE. We said we were signing off for the night, but during the hallway track, we ran into old friend Stu Miniman who was the Director of Market Insights at Red Hat. Stu, friend of theCUBE done the thousands of CUBE interviews. >> Dave, it's great to be here. Thanks for pulling me on, you and I hosted Red Hat Summit before. It's great to see Paul here. I was actually, I was talking to some of the Red Hatters walking around Boston. It's great to have an event here. Boston's got strong presence and I understand, I think was either first or second year, they had it over... What's the building they're tearing down right down the road here. Was that the World Trade Center? I think that's where they actually held it, the first time they were here. We hosted theCUBE >> So they moved up. >> at the Hines Convention Center. We did theCUBE for summit at the BCEC next door. And of course, with the pandemic being what it was, we're a little smaller, nice intimate event here. It's great to be able to room the hall, see a whole bunch of people and lots watching online. >> It's great, it's around the same size as those, remember those Vertica Big Data events that we used to have here. And I like that you were commenting out at the theater and the around this morning for the keynotes, that was good. And the keynotes being compressed, I think, is real value for the attendees, you know? 'Cause people come to these events, they want to see each other, you know? They want to... It's like the band getting back together. And so when you're stuck in the keynote room, it's like, "Oh, it's okay, it's time to go." >> I don't know that any of us used to sitting at home where I could just click to another tab or pause it or run for, do something for the family, or a quick bio break. It's the three-hour keynote I hope has been retired. >> But it's an interesting point though, that the virtual event really is driving the physical and this, the way Red Hat marketed this event was very much around the virtual attendee. Physical was almost an afterthought, so. >> Right, this is an invite only for in-person. So you're absolutely right. It's optimizing the things that are being streamed, the online audience is the big audience. And we just happy to be in here to clap and do some things see around what you're doing. >> Wonderful see that becoming the norm. >> I think like virtual Stu, you know this well when virtual first came in, nobody had a clue with what they were doing. It was really hard. They tried different things, they tried to take the physical and just jam it into the virtual. That didn't work, they tried doing fun things. They would bring in a famous person or a comedian. And that kind of worked, I guess, but everybody showed up for that and then left. And I think they're trying to figure it out what this hybrid thing is. I've seen it both ways. I've seen situations like this, where they're really sensitive to the virtual. I've seen others where that's the FOMO of the physical, people want physical. So, yeah, I think it depends. I mean, reinvent last year was heavy physical. >> Yeah, with 15,000 people there. >> Pretty long keynotes, you know? So maybe Amazon can get away with it, but I think most companies aren't going to be able to. So what is the market telling you? What are these insights? >> So Dave just talking about Amazon, obviously, the world I live in cloud and that discussion of cloud, the journey that customers are going on is where we're spending a lot of the discussions. So, it was great to hear in the keynote, talked about our deep partnerships with the cloud providers and what we're doing to help people with, you like to call it super cloud, some call it hybrid, or multi-cloud... >> New name. (crosstalk) Meta-Cloud, come on. >> All right, you know if Che's my executive, so it's wonderful. >> Love it. >> But we'll see, if I could put on my VR Goggles and that will help me move things. But I love like the partnership announcement with General Motors today because not every company has the needs of software driven electric vehicles all over the place. But the technology that we build for them actually has ramifications everywhere. We've working to take Kubernetes and make it smaller over time. So things that we do at the edge benefit the cloud, benefit what we do in the data center, it's that advancement of science and technology just lifts all boats. >> So what's your take on all this? The EV and software on wheels. I mean, Tesla obviously has a huge lead. It's kind of like the Amazon of vehicles, right? It's sort of inspired a whole new wave of innovation. Now you've got every automobile manufacturer kind of go and after. That is the future of vehicles is something you followed or something you have an opinion on Stu? >> Absolutely. It's driving innovation in some ways, the way the DOS drove innovation on the desktop, if you remember the 64K DOS limit, for years, that was... The software developers came up with some amazing ways to work within that 64K limit. Then when it was gone, we got bloatware, but it actually does enforce a level of discipline on you to try to figure out how to make software run better, run more efficiently. And that has upstream impacts on the enterprise products. >> Well, right. So following your analogy, you talk about the enablement to the desktop, Linux was a huge influence on allowing the individual person to write code and write software, and what's happening in the EV, it's software platform. All of these innovations that we're seeing across industries, it's how is software transforming things. We go back to the mark end reasons, software's eating the world, open source is the way that software is developed. Who's at the intersection of all those? We think we have a nice part to play in that. I loved tha- Dave, I don't know if you caught at the end of the keynote, Matt Hicks basically said, "Our mission isn't just to write enterprise software. "Our mission is based off of open source because open source unlocks innovation for the world." And that's one of the things that drew me to Red Hat, it's not just tech in good places, but allowing underrepresented, different countries to participate in what's happening with software. And we can all move that ball forward. >> Well, can we declare victory for open source because it's not just open source products, but everything that's developed today, whether proprietary or open has open source in it. >> Paul, I agree. Open source is the development model period, today. Are there some places that there's proprietary? Absolutely. But I had a discussion with Deepak Singh who's been on theCUBE many times. He said like, our default is, we start with open source code. I mean, even Amazon when you start talking about that. >> I said this, the $70 billion business on open source. >> Exactly. >> Necessarily give it back, but that say, Hey, this is... All's fair in tech and more. >> It is interesting how the managed service model has sort of rescued open source, open source companies, that were trying to do the Red Hat model. No one's ever really successfully duplicated the Red Hat model. A lot of companies were floundering and failing. And then the managed service option came along. And so now they're all cloud service providers. >> So the only thing I'd say is that there are some other peers we have in the industry that are built off open source they're doing okay. The recent example, GitLab and Hashicorp, both went public. Hashi is doing some managed services, but it's not the majority of their product. Look at a company like Mongo, they've heavily pivoted toward the managed service. It is where we see the largest growth in our area. The products that we have again with Amazon, with Microsoft, huge growth, lots of interest. It's one of the things I spend most of my time talking on. >> I think Databricks is another interesting example 'cause Cloudera was the now company and they had the sort of open core, and then they had the proprietary piece, and they've obviously didn't work. Databricks when they developed Spark out of Berkeley, everybody thought they were going to do kind of a similar model. Instead, they went for all in managed services. And it's really worked well, I think they were ahead of that curve and you're seeing it now is it's what customers want. >> Well, I mean, Dave, you cover the database market pretty heavily. How many different open source database options are there today? And that's one of the things we're solving. When you look at what is Red Hat doing in the cloud? Okay, I've got lots of databases. Well, we have something called, it's Red Hat Open Database Access, which is from a developer, I don't want to have to think about, I've got six different databases, which one, where's the repository? How does all that happen? We give that consistency, it's tied into OpenShift, so it can help abstract some of those pieces. we've got same Kafka streaming and we've got APIs. So it's frameworks and enablers to help bridge that gap between the complexity that's out there, in the cloud and for the developer tool chain. >> That's really important role you guys play though because you had this proliferation, you mentioned Mongo. So many others, Presto and Starbursts, et cetera, so many other open source options out there now. And companies, developers want to work with multiple databases within the same application. And you have a role in making that easy. >> Yeah, so and that is, if you talk about the question I get all the time is, what's next for Kubernetes? Dave, you and I did a preview for KubeCon and it's automation and simplicity that we need to be. It's not enough to just say, "Hey, we've got APIs." It's like Dave, we used to say, "We've got standards? Great." Everybody's implementation was a little bit different. So we have API Sprawl today. So it's building that ecosystem. You've been talking to a number of our partners. We are very active in the community and trying to do things that can lift up the community, help the developers, help that cloud native ecosystem, help our customers move faster. >> Yeah API's better than scripts, but they got to be managed, right? So, and that's really what you guys are doing that's different. You're not trying to own everything, right? It's sort of antithetical to how billions and trillions are made in the IT industry. >> I remember a few years ago we talked here, and you look at the size that Red Hat is. And the question is, could Red Hat have monetized more if the model was a little different? It's like, well maybe, but that's not the why. I love that they actually had Simon Sinek come in and work with Red Hat and that open, unlocks the world. Like that's the core, it's the why. When I join, they're like, here's a book of Red Hat, you can get it online and that why of what we do, so we never have to think of how do we get there. We did an acquisition in the security space a year ago, StackRox, took us a year, it's open source. Stackrox.io, it's community driven, open source project there because we could have said, "Oh, well, yeah, it's kind of open source and there's pieces that are open source, but we want it to be fully open source." You just talked to Gunnar about how he's RHEL nine, based off CentOS stream, and now developing out in the open with that model, so. >> Well, you were always a big fan of Whitehurst culture book, right? It makes a difference. >> The open organization and right, Red Hat? That culture is special. It's definitely interesting. So first of all, most companies are built with the hierarchy in mind. Had a friend of mine that when he joined Red Hat, he's like, I don't understand, it's almost like you have like lots of individual contractors, all doing their things 'cause Red Hat works on thousands of projects. But I remember talking to Rackspace years ago when OpenStack was a thing and they're like, "How do you figure out what to work on?" "Oh, well we hired great people and they work on what's important to them." And I'm like, "That doesn't sound like a business." And he is like, "Well, we struggle sometimes to that balance." Red Hat has found that balance because we work on a lot of different projects and there are people inside Red Hat that are, you know, they care more about the project than they do the business, but there's the overall view as to where we participate and where we productize because we're not creating IP because it's all an open source. So it's the monetizations, the relationships we have our customers, the ecosystems that we build. And so that is special. And I'll tell you that my line has been Red Hat on the inside is even more Red Hat. The debates and the discussions are brutal. I mean, technical people tearing things apart, questioning things and you can't be thin skinned. And the other thing is, what's great is new people. I've talked to so many people that started at Red Hat as interns and will stay for seven, eight years. And they come there and they have as much of a seat at the table, and when I talk to new people, your job, is if you don't understand something or you think we might be able to do it differently, you better speak up because we want your opinion and we'll take that, everybody takes that into consideration. It's not like, does the decision go all the way up to this executive? And it's like, no, it's done more at the team. >> The cultural contrast between that and your parent, IBM, couldn't be more dramatic. And we talked earlier with Paul Cormier about has IBM really walked the walk when it comes to leaving Red Hat alone. Naturally he said, "Yes." Well what's your perspective. >> Yeah, are there some big blue people across the street or something I heard that did this event, but look, do we interact with IBM? Of course. One of the reasons that IBM and IBM Services, both products and services should be able to help get us breadth in the marketplace. There are times that we go arm and arm into customer meetings and there are times that customers tell us, "I like Red Hat, I don't like IBM." And there's other ones that have been like, "Well, I'm a long time IBM, I'm not sure about Red Hat." And we have to be able to meet all of those customers where they are. But from my standpoint, I've got a Red Hat badge, I've got a Red Hat email, I've got Red Hat benefits. So we are fiercely independent. And you know, Paul, we've done blogs and there's lots of articles been written is, Red Hat will stay Red Hat. I didn't happen to catch Arvin I know was on CNBC today and talking at their event, but I'm sure Red Hat got mentioned, but... >> Well, he talks about Red Hat all time. >> But in his call he's talking backwards. >> It's interesting that he's not here, greeting this audience, right? It's again, almost by design, right? >> But maybe that's supposed to be... >> Hundreds of yards away. >> And one of the questions being in the cloud group is I'm not out pitching IBM Cloud, you know? If a customer comes to me and asks about, we have a deep partnership and IBM will be happy to tell you about our integrations, as opposed to, I'm happy to go into a deep discussion of what we're doing with Google, Amazon, and Microsoft. So that's how we do it. It's very different Dave, from you and I watch really closely the VMware-EMC, VMware-Dell, and how that relationship. This one is different. We are owned by IBM, but we mostly, it does IBM fund initiatives and have certain strategic things that are done, absolutely. But we maintain Red Hat. >> But there are similarities. I mean, VMware crowd didn't want to talk about EMC, but they had to, they were kind of forced to. Whereas, you're not being forced to. >> And then once Dell came in there, it was joint product development. >> I always thought a spin in. Would've been the more effective, of course, Michael Dell and Egon wouldn't have gotten their $40 billion out. But I think a spin in was more natural based on where they were going. And it would've been, I think, a more dominant position in the marketplace. They would've had more software, but again, financially it wouldn't have made as much sense, but that whole dynamic is different. I mean, but people said they were going to look at VMware as a model and it's been largely different because remember, VMware of course was a separate company, now is a fully separate company. Red Hat was integrated, we thought, okay, are they going to get blue washed? We're watching and watching, and watching, you had said, well, if the Red Hat culture isn't permeating IBM, then it's a failure. And I don't know if that's happening, but it's definitely... >> I think a long time for that. >> It's definitely been preserved. >> I mean, Dave, I know I read one article at the beginning of the year is, can Arvin make IBM, Microsoft Junior? Follow the same turnaround that Satya Nadella drove over there. IBM I think making some progress, I mean, I read and watch what you and the team are all writing about it. And I'll withhold judgment on IBM. Obviously, there's certain financial things that we'd love to see IBM succeed. We worry about our business. We do our thing and IBM shares our results and they've been solid, so. >> Microsoft had such massive cash flow that even bomber couldn't screw it up. Well, I mean, this is true, right? I mean, you think about how were relevant Microsoft was in the conversation during his tenure and yet they never got really... They maintained a position so that when the Nadella came in, they were able to reascend and now are becoming that dominant player. I mean, IBM just doesn't have that cash flow and that luxury, but I mean, if he pulls it off, he'll be the CEO of the decade. >> You mentioned partners earlier, big concern when the acquisition was first announced, was that the Dells and the HP's and the such wouldn't want to work with Red Hat anymore, you've sort of been here through that transition. Is that an issue? >> Not that I've seen, no. I mean, the hardware suppliers, the ISVs, the GSIs are all very important. It was great to see, I think you had Accenture on theCUBE today, obviously very important partner as we go to the cloud. IBM's another important partner, not only for IBM Cloud, but IBM Services, deep partnership with Azure and AWS. So those partners and from a technology standpoint, the cloud native ecosystem, we talked about, it's not just a Red Hat product. I constantly have to talk about, look, we have a lot of pieces, but your developers are going to have other tools that they're going to use and the security space. There is no such thing as a silver bullet. So I've been having some great conversations here already this week with some of our partners that are helping us to round out that whole solution, help our customers because it has to be, it's an ecosystem. And we're one of the drivers to help that move forward. >> Well, I mean, we were at Dell Tech World last week, and there's a lot of talk about DevSecOps and DevOps and Dell being more developer friendly. Obviously they got a long way to go, but you can't have that take that posture and not have a relationship with Red Hat. If all you got is Pivotal and VMware, and Tansu >> I was thrilled to hear the OpenShift mention in the keynote when they talked about what they were doing. >> How could you not, how could you have any credibility if you're just like, Oh, Pivotal, Pivotal, Pivotal, Tansu, Tansu. Tansu is doing its thing. And they smart strategy. >> VMware is also a partner of ours, but that we would hope that with VMware being independent, that does open the door for us to do more with them. >> Yeah, because you guys have had a weird relationship with them, under ownership of EMC and then Dell, right? And then the whole IBM thing. But it's just a different world now. Ecosystems are forming and reforming, and Dell's building out its own cloud and it's got to have... Look at Amazon, I wrote about this. I said, "Can you envision the day where Dell actually offers competitive products in its suite, in its service offering?" I mean, it's hard to see, they're not there yet. They're not even close. And they have this high say/do ratio, or really it's a low say/do, they say high say/do, but look at what they did with Nutanix. You look over- (chuckles) would tell if it's the Cisco relationship. So it's got to get better at that. And it will, I really do believe. That's new thinking and same thing with HPE. And, I don't know about Lenovo that not as much of an ecosystem play, but certainly Dell and HPE. >> Absolutely. Michael Dell would always love to poke at HPE and HP really went very far down the path of their own products. They went away from their services organization that used to be more like IBM, that would offer lots of different offerings and very much, it was HP Invent. Well, if we didn't invent it, you're not getting it from us. So Dell, we'll see, as you said, the ecosystems are definitely forming, converging and going in lots of different directions. >> But your position is, Hey, we're here, we're here to help. >> Yeah, we're here. We have customers, one of the best proof points I have is the solution that we have with Amazon. Amazon doesn't do the engineering work to make us a native offering if they didn't have the customer demand because Amazon's driven off of data. So they came to us, they worked with us. It's a lot of work to be able to make that happen, but you want to make it frictionless for customers so that they can adopt that. That's a long path. >> All right, so evening event, there's a customer event this evening upstairs in the lobby. Microsoft is having a little shin dig, and then serves a lot of customer dinners going on. So Stu, we'll see you out there tonight. >> All right, thanks you. >> Were watching a brewing somewhere. >> Keynotes tomorrow, a lot of good sessions and enablement, and yeah, it's great to be in person to be able to bump some people, meet some people and, Hey, I'm still a year and a half in still meeting a lot of my peers in person for the first time. >> Yeah, and that's kind of weird, isn't it? Imagine. And then we kick off tomorrow at 10:00 AM. Actually, Stephanie Chiras is coming on. There she is in the background. She's always a great guest and maybe do a little kickoff and have some fun tomorrow. So this is Dave Vellante for Stu Miniman, Paul Gillin, who's my co-host. You're watching theCUBEs coverage of Red Hat Summit 2022. We'll see you tomorrow. (bright music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS Executive Summit, brought to you by Accenture. >> Welcome back, everyone, we are wrapping up two days of wall to wall coverage at the Accenture Executive Summit. You are watching theCUBE. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, and co-hosting alongside of Donald Klein. We have two guests for this segment, we have Zafar Razzacki, he is the managing director Digital Industry X at AWS, welcome to the show. >> Thank you. >> Rebecca: And Jon Allen, global automotive professional services leader at AWS, thank you both for coming on the show! >> Thank you so much, thanks for having us. >> So, first, I'm going to start with you, Zafar, I want to hear both, what you do, what is Digital Industry X? It's so mysterious! (laughter) >> So, Industry X.0 is a fairly new practice inside of Accenture, we focus on all things smart and connected. There's a product segment that focuses on smart and connected products specifically, and then certainly we have to think about engineering, so how do you build those products and how do you automate and make the processes for developing those products smarter, and then processes and operations, how do you actually run those types of businesses? So, I'm new to the practice, I actually joined from a number of years at General Motors, where I worked on mobility and innovation there, and prior to that, spent a number of years at Google, working on innovation and new products there, so happy to be at the firm and excited to think about how we bring these types of skills to the mobility industry and change automotive. >> So, Jon, paint a picture for our viewers. The entire industry is being disrupted, we're changing the way we move around from city to city, we have Uber and Lyft, electric scooters, connected cars, just paint the picture for our viewers about the disruption taking place. >> Sure, I mean, I'll use a line from one of our CEOs in the auto industry, Mara Barra, said we'll see more disruption in the next five years than we've seen in the last twenty-five years, in the automotive industry, and it's really fascinating, seeing what's happening. I think the big disruption is that, automotive industry and automotive makers are no longer traditional metal benders. They see themselves as mobility companies. And they see that they need to integrate with this ecosystem, it's just not about driving your car to one spot to another, but it's a full customer experience, from the moment you get into your car, you get to your location, and then how do you actually get further, maybe, take a Lyft, a scooter, maybe you're not using your car, you're using Uber, so it's fascinating to see how the ecosystem is all integrated in. The auto industry also has shifted that, no longer do they think they should just do it alone. I think we're seeing a lot of partnerships, and they're bringing a lot of small businesses and they're bringing in more innovation, they realize that innovation isn't just happening within their four walls, but they're using a much larger ecosystem to really change and transform mobility across the world. >> So, maybe talk a little bit about how broad this ecosystem is, right, 'cause maybe, you know, in the old time, we had maybe sort of car manufacturers, right, and we had cities. You know, cities made the roads, car manufacturers built the vehicles, right? But now we've got a complicated ecosystem, right? We've got data companies that are playing a role in this, that are driving sort of ride hailing, et cetera, we've also got cities thinking about how they offer traffic services differently. Maybe just talk about some of the things you're seeing around the ecosystem. >> Yeah, I mean, certainly, OEMs are re-imagining their role in the ecosystem, suppliers are also thinking about how they can start to add new value and leverage the data off of their systems. We have to talk about startups in this space as well, I mean, the ecosystem with startups is just growing rapidly, we've talked about Uber and Lyft, they've been a great model for the way a startup can come in and disrupt and grow, but across all aspects, from supply chain, to retail, to in-vehicle technologies, you know, there are so many new entrants, and it's exciting. And it's leading to these types of partnerships where, traditionally, an OEM might have said, I'm going to do it all, now there's this comfort with, I'm going to partner with a startup, I might invest in them, I might put some project dollars into that relationship, and work on co-developing a solution together. >> Yeah, what's amazing, I think, is the customer has a lot more power, maybe than in the past, and so, automotive makers, this unique partnership that's happening, is they're really putting the customer in the center. Customers want a seamless experience, they want to be jumping between different apps or different capabilities, that's what's beautiful about what we're doing in AWS, is we're trying to help these OEMs take that full experience end-to-end. Think of your car as a personal assistant. Think of it as, it can help you get to your job, but it can also help with your personal life as well, and so I think it's fascinating that they're really starting to put the customer at the center to have a better customer experience, and it's no longer just horsepower, and how your car works, but it's really the connected ecosystem that extends, theoretically, beyond your car. So you can connect to your home, you can connect with the rest of your life through your vehicle these days, and I think that's the change. >> So, how will that work? Describe the connected car, what are we really talking about here? >> Wow, you want to take that one first? >> Sure, well, let's contrast it to the non-connected car. >> All right, fair enough! >> I mean, you know, literally, getting in, turning the engine on, and the car was a standalone part of your daily life. But to Jon's point, now, with it being really software-driven and having data able to flow from your vehicle to your home, and be able to automate, you know, turning on your thermostat as you're approaching the home, automatically opening the garage just based on proximity, those types of things. Being able to have the convenience of your favorite playlists and your phone book, bringing that digital life into the car, those weren't possible before the connected car and that technology architecture that we see now. But now, you know, that experience becomes much richer and much more personalized. >> Yeah, and I think, look at it latency, look at an IoT, looking at Edge, fascinating, especially with the introduction of 5G coming out, it's going to completely be a game changer for the rest of this. >> So let's build on that. So the roles of the players in the ecosystem are changing, right, so the role of the car manufacturer's changing, the role of the city is changing, the role of the startup's changing, but it seems like the kind of common theme among all of these is that they're leveraging data in different kinds of ways, I was just wondering, how does AWS help these stakeholders be able to leverage that kind of data? >> That's great. So, my role on professional services for AWS is we help our customers use the AWS services to make it real, whether it's from a proof of concepts all the way to operations. So we use our wonderful partner community like Accenture, and we come in together, and so, for example, say a customer wants to create a personal assistant through the vehicle, using Alexa, using other services, we would go in, maybe with a partner, and a lot of times we love to do it with the customer, with the auto maker, and together build. And again, it might be a concept. There is still a long lead time to create devices to be included in the vehicle, but the great thing about now, Cloud, and some other technologies, seven years was generally the design cycle for a vehicle, you can't do that anymore with new technologies. So we as AWS come in and really help, A, let's envision, let's work backwards from the customer, let's think about what we need to have, help them build, and then later on, actually implement and make it operational. >> Maybe I could just add to that real quick. One of the beauties of this partnership is that we see some of the new technologies that AWS is developing and what's in the pipeline, and our teams are actually working on building demos on top of this, so you know, one example of that is a trip planner that we actually have on display here at the show floor, where we can help a family plan a trip, what are all the things they need to take on that trip, because Alexa knows your shopping preferences, you know, we can recommend the snacks and things that you want to take, we can recommend stops along the way. In the future, when we're all driving electric vehicles, you know, how do you plan out your charging, and take the family to a restaurant while you're waiting thirty minutes for the vehicle to charge, so a lot of those things are realities that we can actually build today based on the technologies that AWS has to offer. >> What are some of the best in class auto makers in the sense of who are really at the cutting edge in terms of working with you both Accenture and AWS in terms of really thinking innovatively and creatively? >> Sure, well, I think everyone across the ecosystem is at that point in time where they recognize, it's time for that transformation to happen. So, you can pick any one of the major brands, and look at great examples of the way they're changing the experience inside of the vehicle. From the integration of different types of personalization offerings, to even, you know, some of the newer entrants, like at Tesla, that's really building vehicles from the ground up focused on software and that customer experience. So I think it's an exciting time across the industry, everyone's really making those changes and you guys are probably a seat at the table in all of those conversations. >> Yeah, I hate to point out one specific, but what I think I've seen a theme is that they recognize to draw talent, they can't do the old way of doing business, right, so they're creating these joint innovation centers with AWS, they have innovation centers kind of off campus of the main campus, they kind of have that Silicon feel, because it's a draw of talent, and they got to make it as exciting to get these new coders and developers in to want to join an automaker. They weren't really necessarily seen as that, the joint automaker, and that's completely transforming especially the rise of the digital, the CTO and the CDO, the chief digital officer, we're seeing that completely change and data science, these are themes maybe ten years ago that really weren't talked about in OEMs, and now they have a seat not only at the table, but they're at the board level. These are conversations at the board level now. >> Absolutely. >> So, one of the things we've all experienced, we all spend a lot of time sitting in traffic, right? Maybe talk a little bit about how are cities getting smarter about kind of using mobility in order to move people across cities and avoid traffic, some of the other problems we all experience. >> Well, I think there's cities as consumers of data, so cities are now having conversations with many of the automakers about leveraging vehicle data to make better decisions about the use of their roadways or how they manage traffic light phasing, so there's a lot of interesting things happening there, where manufacturers are able to share their data to cities, and you know, their city planner teams, the way they're building new roadways, are including a lot of that infrastructure now, where you see technologies like DSRC, that's able to talk to vehicles and help those traffic lights phase accordingly. I think cities are playing a really important role in making those new technologies come to bear. >> And I think it's amazing to see some of the investments in some of the smaller cities. So a few years ago, the Department of Transportation put out a challenge, a smart city challenge, and selected a city to actually be the incubator. But that created all these other cities, from Austin to Columbus to Ohio to you name it, to almost have these PMOs or these centers of excellence to create smart cities, and we talked about the ecosystem at the beginning of the conversation, and it's really enabling these cities to bring in maybe big ideas that weren't able to be brought in before. You know, the Cloud and the technologies we have are really leveling the playing field and giving access to maybe companies that didn't have that kind of compute power before, and that's what we're seeing with the smart cities initiatives, is it's not so expensive anymore, and you can bring in some really brilliant ideas of a small business that is maybe a three person shop that could actually transform. But I think we do need to fix the infrastructure, and we've talked about this as a nation for a while, and we continue to invest in our infrastructure to really enable smart cities. >> We've been talking about these smart cars and how they are going to serve as our personal assistants of the future, but what about safety, too? As an innovative USP? In the sense of, here we are using data to make these cars smarter, more connected, and also safer. >> Right, yeah, I mean I think there's a lot of debates right now on safe the autonomous vehicle and we're learning more as we go along that, I think as a couple use cases that I've seen is, you can sign up for apps to become a smarter driver, right? You see, you get your score, right, with my vehicle I get a report card every month to say how I've actually been doing, and as a parent, I can see how my kids are driving and all that, but I think at the end of the year, and it's kind of, I'll be bold here a little bit, we really don't remember the last time there was a major commercial airline crash in the United States. It makes the six o'clock news. By the time I retire, I make a bold prediction, I can be bold here, that a major car accident in the country, now I might be in a nursing home, could make the evening news. 'Cause we could get to that level of safety in the future, okay? >> Meaning, car accidents are so infrequent-- >> So rare. >> Could be so infrequent, rare, right. Now, I'm not saying it's going to happen near turn, I do have a prediction that if, what we're trying to design today, enables that for the future, I think it's pretty proud to be a part of that, right? Again, I think it's, years down the road, I might be at Shady Pines retirement community at that point, but I really, I mean, you think about how we've been able to do the aviation industry and make it safer, even with the challenges around that, I think in the future we could have that for safety in vehicles in my lifetime. >> I totally agree, and I think that's a big promise of autonomous vehicles, that's what so many people are excited about, you know, traffic accidents are one of the leading causes of death in our country, so to be able to address that through technology, I think, is an exciting promise. We see some of that even today, with all the technology that's being built into the vehicle, there are high standards for minimizing driver distraction, and just imagine that future where, you no longer have to worry about driver distraction. And now our relationship with the vehicle is one where we sit back, we live our lives, you know, there's a statistic that we estimate people will get back 4.5 years of their life that they're not spending behind the wheel locked on the road. You know, those types of things are really exciting to think about. >> Somebody out there will probably correct me on the numbers, but I think 39,000 fatality deaths in the United States was reported by Nets, I think that's the number, but I know that the number of distracted driving is going up, and that's a problem. I mean, people are using their phone, and it's not only phone, it's drinking, it's distracted driving, so anyway-- >> And distracted pedestrians, that's the thing, walking around Boston, everyone's just-- >> That's right, walking around here, you see people on their phone, absolutely. And I think that we are on a, it's amazing to see the changes that have happened around this the last couple years, and I think it's just opened new opportunities for companies that could never have really played in this space, are making a change for us. >> So one of the stories I love to hear about is how these kind of connected car and data capabilities are enabling us to use the infrastructure we've got today better. I mean, we'd all love to jump in a flying taxi and zoom over traffic, et cetera, but there's some concepts like smart carpool lanes, things like that, maybe you can talk a little bit about those and kind of how new business models are being allowed by that. >> Sure, yeah. So metering is one way, where it becomes a smart infrastructure, where you understand the traffic patterns, and it'd be HOV or you pay for it, so you can make the decision if you want to spend $30 to try to get into the city, or be stuck in traffic and take you an hour. And so it's interesting, with the smart infrastructure that's actually occurring, within cities right now that changes on how people will use metered lanes, and that's one thing we're seeing today. But there's also integrations with apps that we use every day to help us give us better insights, obviously, that we all use, to be able to have traffic, but it's the integration with that, imagine being able to have an application integrated with emergency management. So, you know, today people are hitting an app cause waves as a cop on the side of the road, well, we have customers, one customer particular, that wants to make sure that's integrated in a smart way, you know, that if a police car is on the side of the road, how is that really feeding the larger infrastructure? So, yes, there's a whole piece on metering and smart infrastructure, but I think that some of these other businesses are finding ways to integrate things like emergency management and some other pieces to really help reduce traffic flow and make it easier. >> Parking is another great example. >> Parking. >> There are a number of startups out there that have created technologies to help map open parking spaces, so how do you feed that data to the end user to help them make smarter decisions. I think there's another data point, we spend about 30% of our time in our vehicle, is spent just looking for parking. Right, so, how can we help to drive those things down, how can we help make it more efficient to find a parking spot, to even transact for that parking spot, and you might come to a situation where, again, when there's peak traffic, are we bidding for a parking spot? And will a parking spot go to the highest bidder? So these are all opportunities that technology really enables, when we connect the vehicle and are able to feed in that type of data around parking, infrastructure, roadway usage, et cetera. >> Well, Zafar and Jon, this has been a really cool conversation, you have great jobs. It's really neat, re-imagining mobility, yes. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you for having us. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Donald Klein, that wraps up our coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit for theCUBE, thank you so much, and we'll catch you next time.

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBEConversation. >> Hi everyone, welcome to the special CUBEConversation. We're in Palo Alto, California, at theCUBE studio. I'm John Furrier, co-host of the CUBE. We're here with Chris Yeh. He's the co-founder and general partner of Blitzscaling Ventures, author of the book Blitzscaling with Reid Hoffman, founder of LinkedIn and a variety of other ventures, also a partner at Greylock Partners. Chris, great to see you. I've known you for years. Love the book, love Reid. You guys did a great job. So congratulations. But the big news is you're now a TV star as one of the original inaugural contestants on the Mental Samurai, just premiered on Fox, was it >> On Fox. >> On Fox, nine o'clock, on which days? >> So Mental Samurai is on Fox, Tuesdays at 9 p.m. right after Master Chef Junior. >> Alright. So big thing. So successful shows. Take us through the journey. >> Yeah. >> It's a new show, so it's got this kind of like Jeopardy vibe where they got to answer tough questions in what looks like a roller coaster kind of arm that moves you around from station to station, kind of jar you up. But it's a lot of pressure, time clock and hard questions. Tell us about the format. How you got that. Gives all the story. >> So the story behind Mental Samurai is it's from the producers of American Ninja Warrior, if you've ever seen that show. So American Ninja Warrior is a physical obstacle course and these incredible athletes go through and the key is to get through the obstacle course. If you miss any of the obstacles, you're out. So they took that and they translated it to the mental world and they said, okay, we're going to have a mental obstacle course where you going to have different kinds of questions. So they have memory questions, sequence questions, knowledge questions, all these things that are tapping different elements of intelligence. And in order to win at the game, you have to get 12 questions right in five minutes or less. And you can't get a single question wrong. You have to be perfect. >> And they do try to jar you up, to kind of scrabble your brain with those devices, it makes it suspenseful. In watching last night at your watch party in Palo Alto, it's fun to watch because yeah, I'm like, okay, it's going to be cool. I'll support Chris. I'll go there, be great and on TV, and oh my, that's pretty interesting. It was actually riveting. Intense. >> Yeah. You have that element of moving around from station to station and it's dramatic. It's kind of a theater presence. But what's it like in there? Give us some insight. You're coming on in April 30th so you're yet to come on. >> Yes. >> But the early contestants, none of them made it to the 100,000. Only one person passed the first threshold. >> Right >> Take us through the format. How many thresholds are there? What's the format? >> Perfect, so basically when a competitor gets strapped into the chair, they call it Ava, it's like a robot, and basically they got it from some company in Germany and it has the ability to move 360 degrees. It's like an industrial robot or something. It makes you feel like you're an astronaut or in one those centrifugal force things. And the idea is they're adding to the pressure. They're making it more of a challenge. Instead of just Jeopardy where you're sitting there, and answering questions and bantering with Alex Trebek, you're working against the clock and you're being thrown around by this robot. So what happens is first you try to answer 12 questions correctly in less than five minutes. If you do that, then you make it through to the next round, what they call the circle of samurai and you win $10,000. The circle of samurai, what happens is there are four questions and you get 90 seconds plus whatever you have left over from your first run, to answer those four questions. Answer all four questions correctly, you win $100,000 and the official title of Mental Samurai. >> So there's only two levels, circle of samurai but it gets harder. Now also I noticed that it's, their questions have certain puzzles and there's certain kinds of questions. What's the categories, if you will, what's the categories they offer? >> Yes, so the different categories are knowledge, which is just classic trivia, it's a kind of Jeopardy stuff. There's memory, where they have something on screen that you have to memorize, or maybe they play an audio track that you have to remember what happened. And then there's also sequence where you have to put things in order. So all these different things are represented by these different towers which are these gigantic television screens where they present the questions. And the idea is in order to be truly intelligent, you have to be able to handle all of these different things. You can't just have knowledge. You can't just have pop culture. You got to have everything. >> So on the candidates I saw some from Stanford. >> Yeah. >> I saw an athlete. It's a lot of diversity in candidates. How do they pick the candidates? How did you get involved? Did your phone ring up one day? Were you identified, they've read your blog. Obviously they've, you're smart. I've read your stuff on Facebook. How did you get in there? (laughs) >> Excellent question. So the whole process, there's a giant casting department that does all these things. And there's people who just cast people for game shows. And what happened with me is many years ago back in 2014, my sister worked in Hollywood when I was growing up. She worked for ER and Baywatch and other companies and she still keeps track of the entertainment industry. And she sent me an email saying, hey, here's a casting call for a new show for smart people and you should sign up. And so I replied to the email and said hey I'm Chris Yeh. I'm this author. I graduate from Stanford when I was 19, blah blah blah blah. I should be on your show. And they did a bunch of auditions with me over the phone. And they said we love you, the network loves you. We'll get in touch and then I never heard. Turns out that show never got the green light. And they never even shot that show. But that put me on a list with these various casting directors. And for this show it turns out that there was an executive producer of the show, the creator of the show, his niece was the casting director who interviewed me back in 2014. And she told her uncle, hey, there's this guy, Chris Yeh, in Palo Alto. I think would be great for this new show you're doing. Why don't you reach out to him. So they reached out to me. I did a bunch of Skype auditions. And eventually while I was on my book tour for Blitzscaling, I got the email saying, congratulations, you're part of the season one cast. >> And on the Skype interviews, was it they grilling you with questions, or was it doing a mock dry run? What was some of interview vetting questions? >> So they start off by just asking you about yourself and having you talk about who you are because the secret to these shows is none of the competitors are famous in advance, or at least very few of them are. There was a guy who was a major league baseball pitcher, there's a guy who's an astronaut, I mean, those guys are kind of famous already, but the whole point is, they want to build a story around the person like they do with the Olympics so that people care whether they succeed or not. And so they start off with biographical questions and then they proceed to basically use flash cards to simulate the game and see how well you do. >> Got it, so they want to basically get the whole story arc 'cause Chris, obviously Chris is smart, he passed the test. Graduate when he's 19. Okay, you're book smart. Can you handle the pressure? If you do get it, there's your story line. So they kind of look from the classic, kind of marketing segmentation, demographics is your storylines. What are some of the things that they said to you on the feedback? Was there any feedback, like you're perfect, we like this about you. Or is it more just cut and dry. >> Well I think they said, we love your energy. It's coming through very strongly to the screen. That's fantastic. We like your story. Probably the part I struggle the most with, was they said hey, you know, talk to us about adversity. Talk to us about the challenges that you've overcome. And I tell people, listen, I'm a very lucky guy. A lot of great things have happened to me in life. I don't know if there's that much adversity that I can really complain about. Other people who deal with these life threatening illnesses and all this stuff, I don't have that. And so that was probably the part I struggled the most with. >> Well you're certainly impressive. I've known you for years. You're a great investor, a great person. And a great part of Silicon Valley. So congratulations, good luck on the show. So it's Tuesdays. >> 9 p.m. >> 9 p.m. >> On fox. >> On Fox. Mental Samurai. Congratulations, great. Great to be at the launch party last night. The watch party, there'll be another one. Now your episode comes out on April 30th. >> Yes. So on April 30th we will have a big Bay area-wide watch party. I'm assuming that admission will be free, assuming I find the right sponsors. And so I'll come back to you. I'll let you know where it's going to be. Maybe we should even film the party. >> That's, well, I got one more question on the show. >> Yeah. >> You have not been yet on air so but you know the result. What was it like sitting in the chair, I mean, what was it personally like for you? I mean you've taken tests, you've been involved with the situation. You've made some investments. There's probably been some tough term sheets here and there, board meetings. And all that experience in your life, what was it compared to, what was it like? >> Well, it's a really huge adrenaline rush because if you think about there's so many different elements that already make it an adrenaline rush and they all combine together. First of all, you're in this giant studio which looks like something out of a space-age set with this giant robotic arm. There's hundreds of people around cheering. Then you're strapped into a robotic arm which basically makes you feel like an astronaut, like every run starts with you facing straight up, right? Lying back as if you're about to be launched on a rocket. And then you're answering these difficult questions with time pressure and then there's Rob Lowe there as well that you're having a conversation with. So all these things together, and your heart, at least for me, my heart was pounding. I was like trying very hard to stay calm because I knew it was important to stay clam, to be able to get through it. >> Get that recall, alright. Chris, great stuff. Okay, Blitzscaling. Blitzscaling Ventures. Very successful concept. I remember when you guys first started doing this at Stanford, you and Reid, were doing the lectures at Stanford Business School. And I'm like, I love this. It's on YouTube, kind of an open project initially, wasn't really, wasn't really meant to be a book. It was more of gift, paying it forward. Now it's a book. A lot of great praise. Some criticism from some folks but in general it's about scaling ventures, kind of the Silicon Valley way which is the rocket ship I call. The rocket ship ventures. There's still the other venture capitals. But great book. Feedback from the book and the original days at Stanford. Talk about the Blitzscaling journey. >> And one of the things that happened when we did the class at Stanford is we had all these amazing guests come in and speak. So people like Eric Schmidt. People like Diane Greene. People like Brian Chesky, who talked about their experiences. And all of those conversations really formed a key part of the raw material that went into the book. We began to see patterns emerge. Some pretty fascinating patterns. Things like, for example, a lot of companies, the ones that'd done the best job of maintaining their culture, have their founders involved in hiring for the first 500 employees. That was like a magic number that came up over and over again in the interviews. So all this content basically came forward and we said, okay, well how do we now take this and put it into a systematic framework. So the idea of the book was to compress down 40 hours of video content, incredible conversations, and put it in a framework that somebody could read in a couple of hours. >> It is also one of those things where you get lightning in a ball, the classic and so then I'd say go big or go home. But Blitzscaling is all about something new and something different. And I'm reading a book right now called Loonshots, which is a goof on moonshots. It's about the loonies who start the real companies and a lot of companies that are successful like Airbnb was passed over on and they call those loonies. Those aren't moonshots. Moonshots are well known, build-outs. This is where the blitzscaling kind of magic happens. Can you just share your thoughts on that because that's something that's not always talked about in the mainstream press, is that a lot of there blitzscaling companies, are the ones that don't look good on paper initially. >> Yes. >> Or ones that no one's talking about is not in a category or herd mentality of investors. It's really that outlier. >> Yes. >> Talk about that dynamic. >> Yeah, and one of the things that Reid likes to say is that the best possible companies usually sound like they're dumb ideas. And in fact the best investment he's been a part of as a venture capitalist, those are the ones where there's the greatest controversy around the table. It's not the companies that come in and everyone's like this is a no-brainer, let's do it. It's the companies where there's a big fight. Should we do this, should we not? And we think the reason is this. Blitzscaling is all about being able to be the first to scale and the winner take most or the winner take all market. Now if you're in a market where everyone's like, this is a great market, this is a great idea. You're going to have huge competition. You're going to have a lot of people going after it. It's very difficult to be the first to scale. If you are contrarian and right you believe something that other people don't believe, you have the space to build that early lead, that you can then use to leverage yourself into that enduring market leadership. >> And one of the things that I observed from the videos as well is that the other fact that kind of plays into, I want to get your reaction, this is that there has to be a market shift that goes on too because you have to have a tailwind or a wave to ride because if you can be contrarian if there's no wave, >> Right. >> right? so a lot of these companies that you guys highlight, have the wave behind them. It was mobile computing, SaaSification, cloud computing, all kind of coming together. Talk about that dynamic and your reaction 'cause that's something where people can get confused on blitzscaling. They read the book. Oh I'm going to disrupt the dry cleaning business. Well I mean, not really. I mean, unless there's something different >> Exactly. >> in market conditions. Talk about that. >> Yeah, so with blitzscaling you're really talking about a new market or a market that's transforming. So what is it that causes these things to transform? Almost always it's some new form of technological innovation, or perhaps a packaging of different technological innovations. Take mobile computing for example. Many of the components have been around for a while. But it took off when Apple was able to combine together capacitative touchscreens and the form factor and the processor strength being high enough finally. And all these things together created the technological innovation. The technological innovation then enables the business model innovation of building an app store and creating a whole new way of thinking about handheld computing. And then based on that business model innovation, you have the strategy innovation of blitzscaling to allow you to grow rapidly and keep from blowing up when you grow. >> And the spirit of kind of having, kind of a clean entrepreneurial segmentation here. Blitzscaling isn't for everybody. And I want you to talk about that because obviously the book's popular when this controversy, there's some controversy around the fact that you just can't apply blitzscaling to everything. We just talk about some of those factors. There are other entrepreneurialship models that makes sense but that might not be a fit for blitzscaling. Can you just unpack that and just explain, a minute to explain the difference between a company that's good for blitzscaling and one that isn't. >> Well, a key thing that you need for blitzscaling is one of these winner take most or winner take all markets that's just enormous and hugely valuable, alright? The whole thing about blitzscaling is it's very risky. It takes a lot of effort. It's very uncomfortable. So it's only worth doing when you have those market dynamics and when that market is really large. And so in the book we talk about there being many businesses that this doesn't apply to. And we use the example of two companies that were started at the same time. One company is Amazon, which is obviously a blitzscaling company and a dominant player and a great, great company. And the other is the French Laundry. In fact, Jeff Bezos started Amazon the same year that Thomas Keller started the French Laundry. And the French Laundry still serves just 60 people a day. But it's a great business. It's just a very different kind of business. >> It's a lifestyle or cash flow business and people call it a lifestyle business but mainly it's a cash flow or not a huge growing market. >> Yeah. >> Satisfies that need. What's the big learnings that you learned that was something different that you didn't know coming out of blitzscaling experience? Something that surprised you, something that might have shocked you, something that might have moved you. I mean you're well-read. You're smart. What was some learnings that you learned from the journey? >> Well, one of the things that was really interesting to me and I didn't really think about it. Reid and I come from the startup world, not the big company world. One of the things that surprised me is the receptivity of big companies to these ideas. And they explained it to me and they said, listen, you got to understand with a big company, you think it's just a big company growing at 10, 15% a year. But actually there's units that are growing at 100% a year. There's units that are declining at 50% a year. And figuring out how you can actually continue to grow new businesses quicker than your old businesses die is a huge thing for the big, established companies. So that was one of the things that really surprised me but I'm grateful that it appears that it's applicable. >> It's interesting. I had a lot of conversations with Michael Dell before, and before they went private and after they went private. He essentially was blitzscaling. >> Yeah. >> He said, I'm going to winner take most in the mature, somewhat declining massive IT enterprise spend against the HPs of the world, and he's doing it and VMware stock went to an all time high. So big companies can blitz scale. That's the learning. >> Exactly. And the key thing to remember there is one of the reasons why somebody like Michael Dell went private to do this is that blitzscaling is all about prioritizing speed over efficiency. Guess who doesn't like that? Wall street doesn't like because you're taking a hit to earnings as you invest in a new business. GM for example is investing heavily in autonomous vehicles and that investment is not yet delivering cash but it's something that's going to create a huge value for General Motors. And so it's really tough to do blitzscaling as a publicly traded company though there are examples. >> I know your partner in the book, Reid Hoffman as well as in the blitzscaling at Stanford was as visible in both LinkedIn and as the venture capitalist of Greylock. But also he was involved with some failed startups on the front end of LinkedIn. >> Yeah. >> So he had some scar tissue on social networking before it became big, I'll say on the knowledge graph that he's building, he built at LinkedIn. I'm sure he had some blitzscaling lessons. What did he bring to the table? Did he share anything in the classes or privately with you that you can share that might be helpful for people to know? >> Well, there's a huge number of lessons. Obviously we drew heavily on Reid's life for the book. But I think you touched on something that a lot of people don't know, which is that LinkedIn is not the first social network that Reid created. Actually during the dot-com boom Reid created a company called SocialNet that was one of the world's first social networks. And I actually was one of the few people in the world who signed up and was a member of SocialNet. I think I had the handle, net revolutionary on that if you can believe that. And one of the things that Reid learned from his SocialNet experience turned into one of his famous sayings, which is, if you're not embarrassed by your first product launch, you've launched too late. With SocialNet they spent so much time refining the product and trying to get it perfectly right. And then when they launched it, they discovered what everyone always discovers when they launch, which is the market wants something totally different. We had no idea what people really wanted. And they'd wasted all this time trying to perfect something that they've theoretically thought was what the market wanted but wasn't actually what the market wanted. >> This is what I love about Silicon Valley. You have these kind of stories 'cause that's essentially agile before agile came out. They're kind of rearranging the deck chairs trying to get the perfect crafted product in a world that was moving to more agility, less craftsmanship and although now it's coming back. Also I talked to Paul Martino, been on theCUBE before. He's a tribe with Pincus. And it's been those founding fathers around these industries. It's interesting how these waves, they start off, they don't get off the ground, but that doesn't mean the category's dead. It's just a timing issue. That's important in a lot of ventures, the timing piece. Talk about that dynamic. >> Absolutely. When it comes to timing, you think about blitzscaling. If you start blitzscaling, you prioritize speed over efficiency. The main question is, is it the right time. So Webvan could be taken as an example of blitzscaling. They were spending money wildly inefficiently to build up grocery delivery. Guess what? 2000 was not the right time for it. Now we come around, we see Instacart succeeding. We see other delivery services delivering some value. It just turns out that you have to get the timing right. >> And market conditions are critical and that's why blitzscaling can work when the conditions are right. Our days back in the podcast, it was, we were right but timing was off. And this brings up the question of the team. >> Yeah. >> You got to have the right team that can handle the blitzscaling culture. And you need the right investors. You've been on both sides of the table. Talk about that dynamic because I think this is probably one of the most important features because saying you going to do blitzscaling and then getting buy off but not true commitment from the investors because the whole idea is to plow money into the system. You mentioned Amazon, one of Jeff Bezos' tricks was, he always poured money back into his business. So this is a capital strategy, as well financial strategy capital-wise as well as a business trait. Talk about the importance of having that stomach and the culture of blitzscaling. >> Absolutely. And I think you hit on something very important when you sort of talk about the importance of the investors. So Reid likes to refer to investors as financing partners. Or financing co-founders, because really they're coming on with you and committing to the same journey that you're going on. And one of the things I often tell entrepreneurs is you really have to dig deep and make sure you do more due diligence on your investors than you would on your employees. Because if you think about it, if you hire an employee, you can actually fire them. If you take money from an investor, there's no way you can ever get rid of them. So my advice to entrepreneurs is always, well, figure out if they're going to be a good partner for you. And the best way to do that is to go find some of the entrepreneurs they backed who failed and talked to those people. >> 'Cause that's where the truth will come out. >> Well, that's right. >> We stood by them in tough times. >> Exactly. >> I think that's classic, that's perfect but this notion of having the strategies of the elements of the business model in concert, the financial strategy, the capital strategy with the business strategy and the people strategy, all got to be pumping that can't be really any conflict on that. That's the key point. >> That's right, there has to be alignment because again, you're trying to go as quickly as possible and if you're running a race car and you have things that are loose and rattling around, you're not going to make it across the finish line. >> You're pulling for a pit stop and the guys aren't ready to change the tires, (snapping fingers) you know you're out of sync. >> Bingo. >> Chris, great stuff. Blitzscaling is a great book. Check it out. I recommend it, remember blitz scale is not for anyone, it's for the game changers. And again, picking your investors is critical on this. So if you picked the wrong investors, blitzscaling will blow up in a bad way. So don't, don't, pick properly on the visa and pick your team. Chris, so let's talk about you real quick to end the segment and the last talk track. Talk about your background 'cause I think you have a fascinating background. I didn't know that you graduated when you're 19, from Stanford was it? >> Yes. >> Stanford at 19, that's a great accomplishment. You've been an entrepreneur. Take us through your journey. Give us a quick highlight of your career. >> So the quick highlight is I grew up in Southern California and Santa Monica where I graduated from Santa Monica High School along with other luminaries such as Rob Lowe, Robert Downey, Jr., and Sean Penn. I didn't go at the same time that they did. >> They didn't graduate when they were 17. >> They did not, (John laughing) and Charlie Sheen also attended Santa Monica High School but dropped out or was expelled. (laughing) Go figured. >> Okay. >> I came up to Stanford and I actually studied creative writing and product design. So I was really hitting both sides of the brain. You could see that really coming through in the rest of my career. And then at the time I graduated which was the mid-1990s that was when the internet was first opening up. I was convinced the internet was going to be huge and so I just went straight into the internet in 1995. And have been in the startup world ever since. >> Must love that show, Halt and Catch Fire a series which I love reminiscing. >> AMC great show. >> Just watching that my life right before my eyes. Us old folks. Talk about your investment. You are at Wasabi Ventures now. Blitzscaling Ventures. You guys looks like you're going to do a little combination bring capital around blitzscaling, advising. What's Blitzscaling Ventures? Give a quick commercial. >> So the best way to think about it is for the entrepreneurs who are actually are blitzscaling, the question is how are you going to get the help you need to figure out how to steer around the corners to avoid the pitfalls that can occur as you're growing rapidly. And Blitzscaling Ventures is all about that. So obviously I bring a wealth of experience, both my own experience as well as everything I learned from putting this book together. And the whole goal of Blitzscaling Ventures is to find those entrepreneurs who have those blitzscalable opportunities and help them navigate through the process. >> And of course being a Mental Samurai that you are, the clock is really important on blitzscaling. >> There are actually are a lot of similarities between the startup world and Mental Samurai. Being able to perform under pressure, being able to move as quickly as possible yet still be accurate. The one difference of course is in our startup world you often do make mistakes. And you have a chance to recover from them. But in Mental Samurai you have to be perfect. >> Speed, alignment, resource management, capital deployment, management team, investors, all critical factors in blitzscaling. Kind of like entrepreneurial going to next level. A whole nother lesson, whole nother battlefields. Really the capital markets are flush with cash. Post round B so if you can certainly get altitude there's a ton of capital. >> Yeah. And the key is that capital is necessary for blitzscaling but it's not sufficient. You have to take that financial capital and you have to figure out how to combine it with the human capital to actually transform the business in the industry. >> Of course I know you've got to catch a plane. Thanks for coming by in the studio. Congratulations on the Mental Samurai. Great show. I'm looking forward to April 30th. Tuesdays at 9 o'clock, the Mental Samurai. Chris will be an inaugural contestant. We'll see how he does. He's tight-lipped, he's not breaking his disclosure. >> I've got legal requirements. I can't say anything. >> Just say he's sticking to his words. He's a man of his words. Chris, great to see you. Venture capitalist, entrepreneur, kind of venture you want to talk to Chris Yeh, co-founder, general partner of blitzscaling. I'm John Furrier for theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

Sand Hill Road to the heart of Silicon Valley it's the cute presenting the people first Network insights from entrepreneurs and tech leaders when I'm John Ferrari with the cube I'm the co-host also the founder of Silicon angle me we are here on Sand Hill Road at Mayfield for the people first conversations I'm John furry with the cube weird Allen being global CTO and IT of innovation at Procter & Gamble formerly the same position at coca-cola has done a lot of innovations over the years also a reference account back in the day for web methods when they call on the financing of that one of the most famous IPOs which set the groundwork for web services and has a lot of history going back to the 80s we were just talking about it welcome this conversation on people first network thank you for inviting me so the people first network is all about people and it's great to have these conversations you're old school you were doing some stuff back on the 80s talking about doing RPA 3270 you've been old school here yeah I go back to APL as my first programming language went through the the third generation languages and of course the old 30 to 70 emulation which is what we know today is our PA one of the cool things I was excited to hear some of your background around your history web methods you were a reference call for venture financing of web methods which was financed on the credit card for the two founders husband and wife probably one of the most successful I appeals but more importantly at the beginning of the massive wave that we now see with web services this is early days this was very early days when I was at DHL we were looking at what we're gonna do for the future and in fact we built one of the first object-oriented frameworks in C++ at the time because that was all that was available to us or the best was available we rejected Corbis and we said look if we're gonna go this direction and one of my developers found web methods found philip merrick it was literally at the time working out of his garage and had this technology that was going to allow us to start moving into this object-oriented approach and I remember the day Robin Vasan form a field called and said hey I'm thinking about investing in web methods what do you think about it and not only was it one of the first startups that I ever worked with but it's actually the first time I met anybody in the venture community way back in nineteen I think 1997 is what had happened and that was a computing time in computer science and then the rest is history and then XML became what it became lingua franca for the web web services now Amazon Web Services you see in cloud computing micro services kubernetes service meshes this is a new stack that's being developed in the cloud and this is the new generation you've seen many waves and at Procter & Gamble formerly coca-cola you're the same role you have to navigate this so what's different now what's different say 15 20 years ago how are you looking at this market how you implementing some of the IT and infrastructure and software development environments I think what's change is you know when we got into the the early 2000s Nicolas car came out and said IT doesn't matter and I think anybody that was an IT had this very objectionable response initially but when you step back and you looked at it what she realised was in many cases IT didn't matter and those were those areas that were non-competitive those things that could be commoditized and it was completely right the reality is IT has always mattered that technology does give you a competitive advantage in certain markets and certain capabilities for a company but back then we had to go out and we had to purchase equipment we had to configure the equipment there was a lot of heavy lifting in corporations just did not want to invest the capital so they outsource the stuff wholesale I think General Motors was the first one that just out sourced everything and was followed by other companies including Procter & Gamble the decision at that time was probably right but as we go forward and we see what's happened with corporations we see the valuations of corporations the amount of return on equity based on the on the capital that's being invested we can see that data is important we can see that agility flexibility is key to competing in the future and therefore what's changing is we are now moving into an age of away from ERP so we're moving into an age away from these outsource providers on a wholesale basis and using it selectively to drive down costs and allowing us to free up money in order to invest in those things that are most important to the company so you're saying is that the folks naturally the server consolidation they've bought all this gear all this software over you know 18-month rollouts before they even see the first implementation those are the glory days of gravy trains for the vendor's yeah not good for the practitioners but you're saying that the folks who reinvested are investing in IT as a core competency are seeing a competitive advantage they certainly are you know I think I made the statement front of a number of the vendors and a few years ago and people were not comfortable with it but what I said was like you gone are the ears of these 10 20 million dollar deals gone are the ears of the million two million dollar deals we're in the ear of throwaway technology I need to be able to use and invest in technology for a specific purpose for a specific period of time and be able to move on to the next one it's the perfect time for startups but startups shouldn't be looking at the big picture they should be looking at the tail on these investments let me try things let me get out in the market let me have a competitive advantage in marketing which is most important to me or in supply chain those are the areas that I can make a difference with my consumers and my customers and that's where the investments have to go so just in constant of throwaway technology and you know you'd also be said of you know being more agile though interesting to look at the cloud SAS business model if Amazon for us I think that's the gold standard where they actually lower prices on a per unit basis and increase more services and value but in the aggregate you're still paying more but you have more flexibility and that's kind of a good tell sign so that you're seeing that ability to reuse either the infrastructure that's commoditized to shift the value this is are people having a hard time understanding this so I want to get your reaction to how should I tea leaders understand that the wave of cloud the wave of machine learning what a I can bring to the table these new trends how how should leaders figure this out is there a playbook as there are things that you've learned that you could share you know that there's really a playbook it's still early on everyone's looking for one cloud fits all the reality is whether it's Google whether it's Amazon whether it's Microsoft whether it's IBM all clouds are different all clouds have our special are purpose-built for different solutions and I think as an IT leader you have to understand you're not going to take everything and lift and shift that's what we used to do we're now in the position where we have to deconstruct our business we have to understand the services the capabilities that we want to bring to market and not lock ourselves in its building blocks its Legos we're in the period of Legos putting these things together in different manners in order to create new solutions if we try to lock ourselves in the past of how we've always financed things how we've always built things then we're not going to be any better off in the new world than we were in the old alan i want to get your reaction to to two words our PA and containers well as i said earlier our PA is 3270 emulation from the 1980s and for those of us that are old enough to remember that i I still remember scraping the the old green screens and and putting a little process around it it what's nice though is that we have moved forward machine learning and AI and other other capabilities are now present so that we can do this I actually played around with neural nets probably back in 1985 with an Apollo computer so that tells you how far back I go but technologies change processing speeds change everything the technology trends are allowing us to now to do these things the question that we have is also a moral dilemma is are we trying to replace people or are we trying to make improvements and I think that you don't look at our PA as a way simply to replace work it's a way to enhance what we're doing in order to create new value for the customer or for the consumer in our case I think in the in the area of containers you know again been around for a while been around for a while it's just another another approach that we're not we don't want lock in we don't want to be dependent on specific vendors we want the portability we want the flexibility and I think as we start moving containers out to the edge that's where we're gonna start seeing more value as the business processes and the capabilities are spread out again the idea of centralized cloud computing is very good however it doesn't need to be distributed what's interesting I find about the conversation here is that you mentioned a couple things earlier you mentioned the vendors locking you in and saying here's the ERP buy this and with this you have to have a certain process because this is our technology you got to use it this way and you were slave to their their tech on your process serve their tech with containers and say orchestration you now the ability to manage workloads differently and so an interesting time there's that does that change the notion of rip and replace lift and shift because if I a container I could just put a container around it and not have to worry about killing the old to bring in the new this is on the fundamental kind of debate going on do you have to kill the old to bring in the new well you need to kill the old sometimes just because it's old it's time to go other times you do need to repackage it and other times I hate to say it you do need to lift and shift if you're a legacy organization they have a long history such as most of the manufacturing companies in the world today we can't get rid of old things that quickly we can't afford to a lot of the processes are still valid as we're looking to the future we certainly are breaking these things down into services we're looking to containerize these things we're looking to move them into areas where we can compute where we want to when we want to at the right price we're just at the beginning of that journey in the industry I still think there's about five to seven years to go to get there now I'll talk about the role of the edge role of cloud computing as it increases the surface area of IT potentially combined with the fact that IT is a competitive advantage bring those two notions together what's the role of the people because you used to have people that would just manage the rack and stack I'm provisioning some storage I'm doing this as those stovepipes start to be broken down when the service area of IT is bigger how does that change the relationship of the people involved you know you win with people at the end of the day you don't win with technology you know a company of such as Proctor and Gamble and I think what's happened if you look at historically the ERP vendors came out probably 99 2000 and it used to be and remember these I'm old to be honest with you but I remember that we used to have to worry about the amount of memory we were managing we had to be able to tune databases in all of this and the vendors went ahead and they started automating all those processes with the idea that we can do it better than a human and a lot of people a lot of the technology talent then started leaving the organizations and organizations were left with people that we're focusing on process and people a process excuse me process and the the the business which is very good because you need the subject matter experts going forward we have to reinvest in people our people have the subject matter expertise they have some technology skills that they've developed over the years and they've enhanced it on their own but we're in this huge change right now where we have to think different we have to act different and we have to behave differently so doubling down on people is the best thing that you can do and the old outsource model of outsourcing everything kind of reduces the core competency of the people yeah now you got to build it back up again exactly I mean we when we left at P&G 15 years ago about 5,000 people left the organization when we outsource them when we outsource the technology to our partner at that time now it's time we're starting to bring it back in we've brought the network team back in and stood up our own sock in our own NOC for the first time in years just this past year we're doing the same thing by moving things out to the cloud more and more is moving to the cloud we're setting up our own cloud operations and DevOps capabilities I can tell you having been on both sides of it it's a lot harder to be able to bring it back in than it is to take it out and you know interesting proctoring games well known as being a very intimate with the data very data-driven company the data is valuable and having that infrastructure NIT to support the data that's important what's your vision on the data future of the data in the world well I think data is has a value to itself but when you tie it to products you tie it to your customers and consumers it's even more valuable and we're in the process now of things that we used to do completely internally with our own technology or technology partners we're now moving all of that out into the cloud now and I must say cloud its clouds plural again going back to certain clouds are better for certain things so you're seeing a dramatic shift we have a number of projects underway that are in the cloud space but for customers and consumers number of cloud projects in the way for our own internal employees it's all about collecting the data processing the data protecting that data because we take that very seriously and being able to use it to make better decisions I want to get your reaction on two points and two quite lines of questioning here because I think it's very relevant on the enterprise side you're a big account for the big whales the old ERP so the big cloud providers so people want to sell you stuff at the same time you're also running IT innovation so you want to play with the new shiny new toys and experiments start up so if startups want to get your attention and big vendors want to sell to you the tables have kind of turned it's been good this is a good it's a good buyers market right now in my opinion so what's your thoughts on that so you know start with the big companies what do they got to do to win you over well they got to look like how they got to engage and for startups how do they get your attention I think the biggest thing for either startup or large companies understanding the company you're dealing with whether it's Procter & Gamble whether it's coca-cola whether it was DHL if you understand how I operate if you understand how decisions are made if you understand how I'm organized that's gonna give you an a competitive advantage now the large corporations understand this because they've been around through the entire journey of computing with these large corporations the startups need to step back and take a look and see where do I add that competitive advantage many times when you're selling to a large corporate you're not selling to a large corporate you're selling two divisions you're selling two functions and that's how you get in I've been working with startups as I said back since web methods and it was just a two-person company but we brought them in for a very specific capability I then took web methods with me when I left DHL I took them to GE when I left GE I took them to ing because I trusted them and they matured along the way I think finding that right individual that has the right need is the key and working it slowly don't think you're gonna close the deal fast if you're start-up know it's gonna take some time and decide if that's in your best interest or not slow things down focus don't try to boil the ocean over too many of them try to boy you're right Jimmy people try to boil the ocean get that win one win will get you another one which will get you another win and that's the best way to succeed get that beachhead Ellen so if you could go back and knowing what you know now and you're breaking into the IT leadership's position looking forward what would you do differently can do a mulligan hey what would you do differently well you know I think one of the one of the dangers of being an innovator in IT is that you really are risk taker and taking risks is counterculture to corporations so I think I would probably try to get by in a little bit more I mean someone once told me that you know you see the force through the trees before anybody else does your problem is you don't bring people along with you so I think I would probably slow down a little bit not in the adoption of technology but I'd probably take more time to build the case to bring people along a lot faster so that they can see it and they can take credit for it and they can move that needle as well yeah always sometimes early adopters and pioneers had the arrows on the back as they say I've had my share now thanks for sharing your experience what's next for you what's the next mountain you're going to climb well I think that as we're looking forward latency is still an issue you know we have to find a way to defeat latency we're not going to do it through basic physics so we're gonna have to change our business models change our technology distribution change everything that we're doing consumers and customers are demanding instant access to enhanced information through AI and m/l right at the point where they want it and that means we're now dealing with milliseconds and nanoseconds of having to make decisions so I'm very interested in looking at how are we going to change consumer behavior and customer behavior by combining a lot of the new technology trends that are underway and we have to do it also with the security in mind now before we security was secondary now as we're seeing with all of the hacks and the malware and everything that's going on in the world we have to go in and think a little bit different about how we're gonna do that so I'm very much engaged in working with a lot of startups I live here in the Silicon Valley I commute to Cincinnati for Procter & Gamble I'm spending time and just flew in from tel-aviv literally an hour ago I'm in the middle of all the technology hotspots trying to find that next big thing and it's a global it's global innovation happens everywhere and anywhere the venture community if you look at the amount of funds it used to be invested out of the Silicon Valley versus the rest of the world it continues to be on a downward trend not because the funding isn't here in the Silicon Valley but because everyone is recognizing that innovation and technology is developed everywhere in the world Alan Bain was the CTO global CTO and IT innovator there at the cube conversation here in San Hill Road I'm John for a year thanks for watching you

>> Live from the MIT campus in Cambridge, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering the 12th annual MIT Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of MIT's CDOIQ. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Peter Burris. We're joined by Jeff McMillan. He is the managing director at Morgan Stanley. Well, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, Jeff. >> Thanks for having me, it's great to be here. >> So you were just on a panel that was discussing the challenges and the opportunities of the CDO today. I mean, it is a mark of where the CDO role is, just by virtue of the fact that so many corporations are putting it front and center in their organizations. >> Yeah, I think what's interesting, though, is it is bit of a solution in search of a problem, and what I find the biggest challenge that many of these people are facing is that data in and of itself solves nothing, right? Unless you actually say, what business problem am I trying to solve, is it a risk problem, is it an efficiency play, is it a customer service issue, and then building your data solutions in support of that. Too many people start their journey by hiring 400 people, and they create data lineages and they have to create a dictionary and they put all these structures in place, and most of them fail, because they actually didn't figure out what they're solving for, and often times, very elegant and small solutions can actually drive a lot of positive outcomes, but the biggest mistake that, and we actually just discussed this on the panel, is knowing what you're solving for is the first step to be a successful chief data officer. >> Well, investments in infrastructure before outcomes fail no matter what they are, right? So whether it's an infrastructure of doing data analytics better, as you said, a whole bunch of clusters and a whole bunch of metadata management and other stuff, if it's not applied to some end, it's not going to get adopted. So we like to think we were talking in the opening thing, that one of the things that a chief data officer needs to do is acculturate the business to the idea of data being an asset, something that can be applied to work. And it's interesting in part because data can also help you choose what work you should apply it to. So talk a little bit about that. Does that resonate with you? >> I would totally agree with that, and it's not different, like when the first person created a business 2,000 years ago, somewhere along the line they said they needed somebody to keep track of the money, right? And the chief financial officer role sort of emerged, and then we had this thing where people actually came to work every day and they weren't really well trained and didn't understand their responsibilities, so we created the head of human resources. And I think these functions have evolved because as the business model grows, you need to have people to drive specific skills and competencies around these areas. And the truth is, in most organizations, we don't treat data like an asset. And part of it is the machinery, it's getting your Hadoop clusters up and putting your data meta and all that stuff. >> Or we confuse the assets of the technology with the assets that drive business value. >> That's right, and when people fail, it is rarely because they couldn't get the right data quality controls in place. They fail because they didn't get the right engagement model, and they didn't get the left hand and the right hand talking together, and at the core, data is not a data problem, it's an organizational problem. >> So there is this lack of consensus about where the CDO should sit, what his or her responsibilities mandate, scope, what do you think is the answer here? >> Well, we just got off the panel, and this was actually hotly debated, and there were two views on this that were highly divergent. >> But none of the other panelists are here today. >> Yeah, so my view's the right view. (laughter) Actually, I'll lay out both arguments. One of my colleagues on the panel was really driving this tech-focused approach, and her argument, which has some matter in fairness, is that so much of data is about the technology and the interplay and also the knowledge and the expertise and appreciation. You know, technology's been dealing with this problem for 25 years. No one was actually listening to them, right? So there is tremendous knowledge and expertise built up there. I took the other side of the equation, and I worked for the co-heads of our business, because it's not about the technology. And again, the challenges and the barriers to success are not technical in nature, it's leadership. And one thing that's interesting about data, and the reason that people have such a hard time with it, is that the problem and the solution to the problem often sit in two different cost centers. So getting somebody else to care about a problem that impacts you, when it actually doesn't drive your outcomes, is really hard, and that requires leadership and it requires collaboration. And sitting in a technology organization, by the way, I work with terrific technology folks, so this is not a disparagement on them, but sitting under the co-heads of the business, I am able to have those conversations with the other leaders of the business, and say listen, I know that you don't care about this, but for the best interest of the organization, we have to make these investments and let me explain, and those people think more holistically 'cause they're solving for the enterprise as opposed to their individual piece of technology. >> Which really is kind of you said, it requires leadership and it requires collaboration, but that also is one of the fundamental orientation of what great strategy should be. It's a way of cohering the mental model, getting everybody to agree on what the outcome and what the objective needs to be. >> Totally, and by the way, for those of us who are around in the late 90s. >> Not me! (laughter) >> When everyone hired the head of Internet strategy. This feels very much the same way, right? Everyone built websites and they had straight through processing and they sort of woke up a year and a half later, and they said, how has this gotten better? And they said oh, maybe we actually need to connect it to our infrastructure. >> I'll date myself. I remember when these conversations about whether or not we had a CIL, when we had a head of DP within HR, we had a head of DP within accounting, and there was whoa, what are we, the chief is responsible from my perspective, and I'd like to hear what you have to say, a chief anything is responsible for getting a return on the assets that are entrusted to them. >> Yeah, and that is 100% true. That being said, where you make your money is in the businesses, and I think to be really good at this job, you have to be very humble. And you can't make it about you and your goals and objectives, 'cause I have no goals and objectives outside of the goals and objectives of the business that I support. And part of what a lot of the challenge that people have, is they want to build empires, and I actually, I said to my boss, I have declared success when I'm an organization of one, because what I've been able to done is I've been able to set up the right controls, I've got the right people on the right jobs who understand, and the right technology, but the innovation is happening. It doesn't happen to my group. It happens away from my group. It happens when that 23-year-old who has got, with six weeks of visualization training, is sitting at 10 o'clock at night, figures out a better way to sell a municipal bond, because they spent 100 of their hours working on that. It's democratizing access to that, and it's really finding that right balance between control, ensuring the right data quality's in place, but also giving people the ability to innovate, and I think that's the perfect inflection point where you want to be. >> So what is the answer here? How would you give this remedy to other organizations in terms of the best practices that have emerged, and how to do this and do it right? >> Well, first and foremost, you got to know what your strategy is. I was on a panel with GE and General Motors. Their goals and objectives are very different than my goals and objectives. So don't leave this conference because Jeff McMillan did it this way at Morgan Stanley, and assume that that's the right answer for you. I think you have to first ask yourself, what are the most important objectives, and what is your strategy, 'cause the other thing I find is, you ask that question, a lot of businesses, even in this world in which, 2018, we talk about all the time, they don't have a clearly articulated strategy. And unless you have a strategy, putting data on the back end of that is not going to solve the problem. So first and foremost, you got to have a strategy. And then secondly, you got to put the right technical infrastructure in, there's a lot of plumbing that goes into this, and I'm going to gloss over it, but it's really important, and then you got to put the right organizational structure in place. I actually don't believe that you create a different parallel committee around this. The way we do it at our firm is we actually, the existing executive committee, is responsible for this, it's an additional function of them. We report into that function, and then you say, what is your business goals and objectives? Figure out where the gaps are, and then spend the time, money, and resources to solve and focus on that, and do it one problem at a time, and in doing that, you start to build this, what I'll describe as a data-centric or decision-centric culture. >> We call it data first, and so the way we tend to think about it, and I want to bounce this off of you is, you know, what's your business, what are the activities, the outcomes that are necessary to perform that business, what activities are necessary to achieve those outcomes, what data is necessary to perform those activities? >> That's right. >> Does that kind of follow? >> 100%, and also what processes, 'cause the other thing is that you talk to the data consultants, it's all about the data. And then you talk to the process consultants about the process, it's all about all of those things, and the point is that the data is the piece that sits, but there are many factors that influence that. Sometimes it's a data quality program. Sometimes it's a training program. Sometimes it's a technology issue. Sometimes it's a vendor supply issue. There's a whole host of reasons, and really the question is how do you use the data as the rallying point to say, this is the objective source of truth, and where is that objective source of truth, either not from a quality perspective, or from a business perspective, how does it impact those business, and always going back to that thing, 'cause there's truth in that attribute. >> And is that a culture issue? >> Well, it's a process of the technology, and it ultimately is a culture. And it's going back to the original comment, is do you see data as a problem, or do you see data as an opportunity? And I would argue, and I'm not going to speak for other companies, but in the world of finance, we live in bits, zeroes and ones, right? We are an information based business at the core, that happens to be delivering a financial services product. And in that world, that is our competitive advantage. I have a database of every single transaction that every client has ever given with us at Morgan Stanley. I know your risk tolerance level. I know where you live, I know whether you have children. That is a powerful source of knowledge, that if harnessed appropriately, allows to deliver a far, far superior solution to our clients and what they were getting previously. >> Great, well Jeff, thanks so much for coming on the show. It's really fun talking to you. >> Yeah, thank you so much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. For Peter Burris, we will have more from MIT's CDOIQ coming up just after this.

>> Live from San Jose in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, covering Data Works Summit 2018, brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Dataworks here in San Jose, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, James Kobielus. We're joined by Cindy Maike. She is the VP Industry Solutions and GM Insurance and Healthcare at Hortonworks. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, Cindy. >> Thank you, thank you, look forward to it. >> So, before the cameras were rolling we were talking about the business case for data, for data analytics. Walk our viewers through how you, how you think about the business case and your approach to sort of selling it. >> So, when you think about data and analytics, I mean, as industries we've been very good sometimes at doing kind of like the operational reporting. To me that's looking in the rearview mirror, something's already happened, but when you think about data and analytics, especially big data it's about what questions haven't I been able to answer. And, a lot of companies when they embark on it they're like, let's do it for technology's sake, but from a business perspective when we, as our industry GMs we are out there working with our customers it's like, what questions can't you answer today and how can I look at existing data on new data sources to actually help me answer questions. I mean, we were talking a little bit about the usage of sensors and so forth around telematics and the insurance industry, connected homes, connective lives, connected cars, those are some types of concepts. In other industries we're looking at industrial internet of things, so how do I actually make the operations more efficient? How do I actually deploy time series analysis to actually help us become more profitable? And, that's really where companies are about. You know, I think in our keynote this morning we were talking about new communities and it's what does that mean? How do we actually leverage data to either monetize new data sources or make us more profitable? >> You're a former insurance CFO, so let's delve into that use case a little bit and talk about the questions that I haven't asked yet. What are some of those and how are companies putting this thing to work? >> Yeah so, the insurance industry you know, it's kind of frustrating sometimes where as an insurance company you sit there and you always monitor what your combined ratio is, especially if you're a property casualty company and you go, yeah, but that tells me information like once a month, you know, but I was actually with a chief marketing officer recently and she's like, she came from the retail industry and she goes, I need to understand what's going on in my business on any given day. And so, how can we leverage better real time information to say, what customers are we interacting with? You know, what customers should we not be interacting with? And then you know, the last thing insurance companies want to do is go out and say, we want you as a customer and then you decline their business because they're not risk worthy. So, that's where we're seeing the insurance industry and I'll focus a lot on insurance here, but it's how do we leverage data to change that customer engagement process, look at connected ecosystems and it's a good time to be well fundamentally in the insurance industry, we're seeing a lot of use cases, but also in the retail industry, new data opportunities that are out there. We talked a little bit before the interview started on shrinkage and you know, the retail industry's especially in the food, any type of consumer type packages, we're starting to see the usage of sensors to actually help companies move fresh food around to reduce their shrinkage. You know, we've got. >> Sorry, just define shrinkage, 'cause I'm not even sure I understand, it's not that your gapple is getting smaller. It refers to perishable goods, you explain it. >> Right, so you're actually looking at, how do we make sure that my produce or items that are perishable, you know, I want to minimize the amount of inventory write offs that I have to do, so that would be the shrinkage and this one major retail chain is, they have a lot of consumer goods that they're actually saying, you know what, their shrinkage was pretty high, so they're now using sensors to help them monitor should we, do we need to move certain types of produce? Do we need to look at food before it expires you know, to make sure that we're not doing an inventory write off. >> You say sensors and it's kind of, are you referring to cameras taking photos of the produce or are you referring to other types of chemical analysis or whatever it might be, I don't know. >> Yeah, so it's actually a little bit of both. It's how do I actually you know, looking at certain types of products, so we all know when you walk into a grocery store or some type of department store, there's cameras all over the place, so it's not just looking at security, but it's also looking at you know, are those goods moving? And so, you can't move people around a store, but I can actually use the visualization and now with deep machine learning you can actually look at that and say, you know what, those bananas are getting a little ripe. We need to like move those or we need to help turn the inventory. And then, there's also things with bar coding you know, when you think of things that are on the shelves. So, how do I look at those bar codes because in the past you would've taken somebody down the isle. They would've like checked that, but no, now we're actually looking up the bar codes and say, do we need to move this? Do we need to put these things on sale? >> At this conference we're hearing just so much excitement and talk about data as the new oil and it is an incredible strategic asset, but you were also saying that it could become a liability. Talk about the point at which it becomes a liability. >> It becomes a liability when one, we don't know what to do with it, or we make decisions off of data data, so you think about you know, I'll give you an example, in the healthcare industry. You know, medical procedures have changed so immensely. The advancement in technology, precision medicine, but if we're making healthcare decisions on medical procedures from 10 years ago, so you really need to say how do I leverage you know, newer data stats, so over time if you make your algorithms based on data that's 10, 20 years old, it's good in certain things, but you know, you can make some bad business decisions if the data is not recent. So, that's when I talk about the liability aspect. >> Okay, okay, and then, thinking about how you talk with, collaborate with customers, what is your approach in the sense of how you help them think through their concerns, their anxieties? >> So, a lot of times it's really kind of understanding what's their business strategy. What are their financial, what are their operational goals? And you say, what can we look at from a data perspective, both data that we have today or data that we can acquire from new data sources to help them actually achieve their business goals and you know, specifically in the insurance industry we focus on top line growth with growing your premium or decreasing your combined ratio. So, what are the types of data sources and the analytical use cases that we can actually you know, use? See the exact same thing in manufacturing, so. >> And, have customer attitudes evolved over time since you've been in the industry? How would you describe their mindsets right now? >> I think we still have some industries that we struggle with, but it's actually you know, I mentioned healthcare, the way we're seeing data being used in the healthcare industry, I mean, it's about precision medicine. You look at gnomics research. It says that if people like 58 percent of the world's population would actually do a gnomics test if they could actually use that information. So, it's interesting to see. >> So, the struggle is with people's concern about privacy encroachment, is that the primary struggle? >> There's a little bit of that and companies are saying, you know, I want to make sure that it's not being used against me, but there was actually a recent article in Best Review, which is an insurance trade magazine, that says, you know, if I have, actually have a gnomic test can the insurance industry use that against me? So, I mean, there's still a little bit of concern. >> Which is a legitimate concern. >> It is, it is, absolutely and then also you know, we see globally with just you know, the General Data Protection act, the GDPR, you know, how are companies using my information and data? So you know, consumers have to be comfortable with the type of data, but outside of the consumer side there's so much data in the industry and you made the comment about you know, data's the new oil. I have a thing, against, with that is, but we don't use oil straight in a car, we don't use crude putting in a car, so once we do something with it which is the analytical side, then that's where we get the business end side. So, data for data's sake is just data. It's the business end sites is what's really important. >> Looking ahead at Hortonworks five, 10 years from now I mean, how much, how much will your business account for the total business of Hortonworks do you think, in the sense of as you've said, this is healthcare and insurance represents such huge potential possibilities and opportunities for the company? Where do you see the trajectory? >> The trajectory I believe is really in those analytical apps, so we were working with a lot of partners that are like you know, how do I accelerate those business value because like I said, it's like we're not just into data management, we're in the data age and what does that mean? It's like turning those things into business value and I've got to be able to I think from an industry perspective, you know be working with the right partners and then also customers because they lack some of the skillsets. So, who can actually accelerate the time to value of using data for profitability? >> Is your primary focus area at helping regulated industries with their data analytics challenges and using IOT or does it also cover unregulated? >> Unregulated as well. >> Are the analytics requirements different between regulated and unregulated in terms of the underlying capabilities they require in terms of predictive modeling, of governance and so forth and how does Hortonworks differentiate their response to those needs? >> Yeah, so it varies a little bit based upon their regulations. I mean, even if you look at life sciences, life sciences is very, very regulated on how long do I have to keep the data? How can I actually use the data? So, if you look at those industries that maybe aren't regulated as much, so we'll get away from financial services, highly regulated across all different areas, but I'll also look at say business insurance, not as much regulated as like you and I as consumers, because insurance companies can use any type of data to actually do the pricing and doing the underwriting and the actual claims. So, still regulated based upon the solvency, but not regulated on how we use it to evaluate risk. Manufacturing, definitely some regulation there from a work safety perspective, but you can use the data to optimize your yields you know, however you see fit. So, we see a mixture of everything, but I think from a Hortonworks perspective it's being able to share data across multiple industries 'cause we talk about connected ecosystems and connected ecosystems are really going to change business of the future. >> So, how so? I mean, especially in bringing it back to this conference, to Data Works, and the main stage this morning we heard so much about these connected communities and really it's all about the ecosystem, what do you see as the biggest change going forward? >> So, you look at, and I'll give you the context of the insurance industry. You look at companies like Arity, which is a division of All State, what they're doing actually working with the car manufacturers, so at some point in time you know, the automotive industry, General Motors tried this 20 years ago, they didn't quite get it with On Star and GMAC Insurance. Now, you actually have the opportunity with you know, maybe on the front man for the insurance industry. So, I can now start to collect the data from the vehicle. I'm using that for driving of the vehicle, but I can also use it to help a driver make safer driving. >> And upsize their experience of actually driving, making it more pleasant as well as safer. There's many layers of what can be done now with the same data. Some of those uses impinge or relate to regulated concern or mandatory concerns, then some are purely for competitive differentiation of the whole issue of experience. >> Right, and you think about certain aspects that the insurance industry just has you know, a negative connotation and we have an image challenge on what data can and cannot be used, so, but a lot of people opt in to an automotive manufacturer and share that type of data, so moving forward who's to say with the connected ecosystem I still have the insurance company in the background doing all the underwriting, but my distribution channel is now the car dealer. >> I love it, great. That's a great note to end on. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Thank you Cindy. I'm Rebecca Knight for James Kobielus. We will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of Data Works in just a little bit. (upbeat music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Informatica World 2018, brought to you by Informatica. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, we're here live at the Venetian, we're at the Sands Convention Center, Venetian, the Palazzo, for Informatica World 2018. I'm John Furrier, with Peter Burris, my co-host with you. Our next guest, Arun Varadarajan, who's the VP of AI and Analytics at Cognizant. Great to see you. It's been awhile. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. Thank you John, it's wonderful meeting you again. >> So, last time you were on was 2015 in the queue. We were at the San Francisco, where the event was. You kind of nailed the real time piece; also, the disruption of data. Look ing forward, right now, we're kind of right at the spot you were talking about there. What's different? What's new for you? ASI data's at the center of the value preposition. >> Arun: Yep. People are now realizing, I need to have strategic data plan, not just store it, and go do analytics on it. GDPR is a signal; obviously we're seeing that. What's new? >> So, I think a couple of things, John. One is, I think the customers have realized that there is a need to have a very deliberate approach. Last time, when we spoke, we spoke about digital transformation; it was a cool thing. It had this nice feel to it. But I think what has happened in the last couple of years is that we've been able to help our clients understand what exactly is digital transformation, apart from it being a very simple comparative tactic to deal with the fact that digital natives are, you know, barking down your path. It also is an opportunity for you to really reimagine your business architecture. So, what we're telling our clients is that when you're thinking about digital transformation, think of it from a 3-layer standpoint, the first layer being your business model itself, right? Because, if you're a traditional taxi service, and you're dealing with the Uber war, you better reimagine your business model. It starts there. And then, if your business model has to change to compete in the digital world, your operating model has to be extremely aligned to that new business model paradigm that you've defined. And, to that, if you don't have a technology model that is adapting to that change, none of this is going to happen. So, we're telling our clients, when you think about digital transformation, think of it from these three dimensions. >> It's interesting, because back in the old days, your technology model dictated what you could do. It's almost flipped around, where the business model is dictating the direction. So, business model, operating model, technology model. Is that because technology is more versatile? Or, as Peter says, processes are known, and you can manage it? It used to be, hey, let's pick a technology decision. Which database, and we're off to the races. Now it seems to be flipped around. >> There are two reasons for that. One is, I think, technology itself has proliferated so much that there are so many choices to be made. And if you start looking at technology first, you get kind of burdened by the choices you need to make. Because, at the end of the day, the choice you make on technology has to have a very strong alignment and impact to business. So, what we're telling our clients is, choices are there; there are plenty of choices. There are compute strategies available that are out there. There's new analytical capabilities. There's a whole lot of that. But if you do not purpose and engineer your technology model to a specific business objective, it's lost. So, when we think about business architecture, and really competing in the digital space, it's really about you saying, how do I make sure that my business model is such that I can thwart the competition that is likely to come from digital natives? You saw Amazon the other day, right? They bought an insurance company. Who knows what they're going to buy next? My view is that Uber may buy one of the auto companies, and completely change the car industry. So, what does Ford do? What does General Motors do? And, if they're going to go about this in a very incremental fashion, my view is that they may not exist. >> So, we have been in our research arguing that digital transformation does mean something. We think that it's the difference between a business and a digital business is the role that data plays in a digital 6business, and whether or not a business treats data as an asset. Now, in every business, in every business strategy, the most simple, straightforward, bottom-line thing you can acknowledge is that businesses organize work around assets. >> John: Yep. >> So, does it comport with your observation that, to many respects, what we're talking about here is, how are we reinstitutionalizing work around data, and what impact does that have on our business model, our operating model, and our technology selection? Does that line up for you? >> Totally, totally. So, if you think about business model change, to me, it starts by re-imagining your engagement process with your customers. Re-imagining customer experience. Now, how are you going to be able to re-imagine customer experience and customer engagement if you don't know your customer? Right? So, the first building block in my mind is, do you have customer intelligence? So, when you're talking about data as an asset, to me, the asset is intelligence, right? So, customer intelligence, to me, is the first analytical building block for you to start re-imagining your business model. The second block, very clearly, is fantastic. I've re-imagined customer experience. I've re-imagined how I am going to engage with my customer. Is your product, and service, intelligent enough to develop that experience? Because, experience has to change with customers wanting new things. You know, today I was okay with buying that item online, and getting the shipment done to me in 4 days. But, that may change; I may need overnight shipping. How do you know that, right? Are you really aware of my preferences, and how quickly is your product and service aligning to that change? And, to your point, if I have customer intelligence, and product intelligence sorted out, I better make sure that my business processes are equally capable of institutionalizing intelligence. Right? So, my process orchestration, whether it's my supply chain, whether it's my auto management, whether it's my, you know, let's say fulfillment process; all of these must be equally intelligent. So, in my mind, these are three intelligent blocks: there's customer intelligence, product intelligence, and operations intelligence. If you have these three building blocks in place, then I think you can start thinking about what should your new data foundation look like. >> I want to take that and overlay kind of like, what's going on in the landscape of the industry. You have infrastructure world, which you buy some rack and stack the servers; clouds now on the scene, so there's overlapping there. We used to have a big data category. You know, ADO; but, that's now AI and machine learning, and data ware. It's kind of its own category, call it AI. And then, you have kind of emerging tech, whether you call, block chain, these kind of... confluence of all these things. But there's a data component that sits in the center of all these things. Security, data, IOT, traverse infrastructure, cloud, the classic data industry, analytics, AI, and emerging. You need data that traverses all these new environments. How does someone set up their architecture so that, because now I say, okay, I got a dat big data analytics package over here. I'm doing some analytics, next gen analytics. But, now I got to move data around for its cloud services, or for an application. So, you're seeing data as to being architected to be addressable across multiple industries. >> Great point John. In fact, that leads logically to the next thing that me and my team are working on. So we are calling it the Adaptive Data Foundation. Right? The reason why we chose the word adaptive is because in my mind it's all about adapting to change. I think Chal Salvan, or somebody said that the survival of the fittest is not, the survival is not of the survival of the fittest or the survival of the species that is intelligent, but it's the survival of those who can adapt to change, right? To me, your data foundation has to be super adaptive. So what we've done is, in fact, my notion, and I keep throwing this at you every time I meet you, in my opinion, big data is legacy. >> John: Yeah, I would agree with that. >> And its coming.. >> John: The debate. >> It's pretty much legacy in my mind. Today it's all about scale-out, responsive, compute. The data world. Now, if you looked at most of the architectures of the past of the data world, it was all about store and forward. Right? I would, it's a left to right architecture. To me it's become a multi-directional architecture. Therefore what we have done is, and this is where I think the industry is still struggling, and so are our customers. I understand I need to have a new modern data foundation, but what does that look like? What does it feel like? So with the Adaptive Data Foundation... >> They've never seen it before by the way. >> They have not seen it. >> This is new. >> They are not able to envision it. >> It is net new. >> Exactly. They're not able to envision it. So what I tell my clients is, if you really want to reimagine, just as you're reimagining your business model, your operating model, you better reimagine your data model. Is your data model capable of high velocity resolutions? Whether it's identity resolution of a client who's calling in. Whether it's the resolution of the right product and service to deliver to the client. Whether it's your process orchestration, they're able to quickly resolve that this data, this distribution center is better capable of servicing their customer need. You better have that kind of environment, right? So, somebody told me the other day that Amazon can identify an analytical opportunity and deliver a new experience and productionize it in 11.56 seconds. Today my customers, on average, the enterprise customers, barely get to have a reasonable release on a monthly basis. Forget about 11.56 seconds. So if they have to move at that kind of velocity, and that kind of responsiveness, they need to reimagine their data foundation. What we have done is, we have tried to break it down into three broad components. The first component that they're saying is that you need a highly responsive architecture. The question that you asked. And a highly responsive architecture, we've defined, we've got about seven to eight attributes that defines what a responsive architecture is. And in my mind, you'll hear a lot of, I've been hearing a lot of this that a friend, even in today's conference, people are saying, 'Oh, its going to be a hybrid world. There's going to be Onprim, there's going to be cloud, there's going to be multicloud. My view is, if you're going to have all of that mess, you're going to die, right? So I know I'm being a little harsh on this subject, but my view is you got to move to a very simplified responsive architecture right up front. >> Well you'd be prepared for any architecture. >> I've always said, we've debated this many times, I think it's a cloud world, public cloud, everything. Where the data center on premise is a huge edge. Right, so? If you think of the data center as an edge, you can say okay, it's a large edge. It's a big fat edge. >> Our fundamentalists, I don't think it exists. Our fundamental position is data increasingly, the physical realities of data, the legal realities of data, the intellectual property control realities of data, the cost realities of data are going to dictate where the processing actually takes place. There's going to be a tendency to try to move the activity as close to the data as possible so you don't have to move the data. It's not in opposition, but we think increasingly people are going to not move the data to the cloud, but move the cloud to the data. That's how we think. >> That's an interesting notion. My view is that the data has to be really close to the source of position and execution, right? >> Peter: Yeah. Data has got to be close to the activity. >> It has to be very close to the activity. >> The locality matters. >> Exactly, exactly, and my view is, if you can, I know it's tough, but a lot of our clients are struggling with that, I'm pushing them to move their data to the cloud, only for one purpose. It gives them that accessibility to a wide ranging of computer and analytical options. >> And also microservices. >> Oh yeah. >> We had a customer on earlier who's moved to the cloud. This is what we're saying about the edge being data centered. Hybrid cloud just means you're running cloud operations. Which just means you got to have a data architecture that supports cloud operations. Which means orchestration, not having siloed systems, but essentially having these kind of, data traversal, but workload management, and I think that seems to be the consistency there. This plays right into what you're saying. That adaptive platform has to enable that. >> Exactly. >> If it forecloses it, then you're missing an opportunity. I guess, how do you... Okay tell me about a customer where you had the opportunity to do the adaptive platform, and they say no, I want a silo inside my network. I got the cloud for that. I got the proprietary system here. Which is eventually foreclosing their future revenue. How do you handle that scenario? >> So the way we handle that scenario, is again, focusing on what the end objective, that the client has, from an analytical opportunity, respectfully. What I mean by that is that semi-customer says I need to be significantly more responsive in my service management, right? So if he says I want to get that achieved, then what we start thinking about is, what is that responsive data architecture that can tell us a better outcome because like you said, and you said, there's stuff on the data center, there's stuff all over the place, it's going to be difficult to take that all away. But can I create a purpose for change? Many times you need a purpose for change. So the purpose being if I can get to a much more intelligent service management framework, I will be able to either take cost out or I can increase my revenue through services. It has to be tied to an outcome. So then the conversation becomes very easy because you're building a business case for investing in change, resulting in a measurable, business outcome. So that engineer to purpose is the way I'm finding it easier to have that conversation. And I'm telling the plan, keep what you have so you've got all the speckety messes somebody said, right? You've got all of the speckety mess out there. Let us focus on, if there are 15 data sets, that we think are relevant for us to deliver service management intelligence, let's focus on those 15 data sets. Let's get that into a new scalable, hyper responsive modern architecture. Then it becomes easier. Then I can tell the customer, now we have created an equal system where we can truly get to the 11.56 seconds analytical opportunity getting productionized. Move to an experiment as a service. That's another concept. So all of that, in my opinion John, is if he can put a purpose around it, as opposed to saying let's rip and replay, let's do this large scale transformation program, those things cost a lot of money. >> Well the good news is containers and Cubernetties is stowing away to get those projects moving cloud natives as fast as possible. Love the architecture vision. Love to fault with you on that. Great conversation. I think that's a path, in my opinion. Now short-term, the house in on fire in many areas. I want to get your thoughts on this final question. GDPR, the house is on fire, it's kind of critical, it's kind of tactical. People don't like freaking out. Saying okay, saying what does this mean? Okay, it's a signal, it is important. I think it's a technical mess. I mean where's the data? What schema? John Furrier, am I J Furrier, or Furrier, John? There's data on me everywhere inside the company. It's hard. >> Arun: It is. >> So, how are you guys helping customers and navigate the landscape of GDPR? >> GDPR is a whole, it's actually a much bigger problem than we all thought it was. It is securing things at the source system because there's volatibilities of source system. Forget about it entering into any sort of mastering or data barrels. They're securing its source, that is so critical. Then, as you said, the same John Furrier, who was probably exposed to GDPR is defined in ten different ways. How do I make sure that those ten definitions are managed? >> Tells you, you need an adaptive data platform to understands. >> So right now most of our work, is just doing that impactive analysis, right? Whether it's at a source system level, it has data coverance issues, it has data security issues, it has mastering issues. So it's a fairly complex problem. I think customers are still grappling with it. They're barely, in my opinion, getting to the point of having that plan because May 18, 2018 May, was supposed to, for you to show evidence of a plan. So I think there... >> The plan is we have no plan. >> Right, the plan of the plan, I guess is what they're going to show. It may, as opposed to the plan. >> Well I'm sure it's keeping you guys super busy. I know it's on everyone's mind. We've been talking a lot about it. Great to have you on again. Great to see you. Live here at Informatica World. Day one of two days of coverage at theCUBE here. In Las Vegas, I'm John here with Peter Burris with more coverage after this short break. (techno music)

>> Host: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2018, brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live, day three of Dell Technologies World. I'm Lisa Martin, back hosting with Dave Velante and we're very excited to welcome back to theCUBE Karen Quintos, Chief Customer Officer at Dell EMC. Hey, welcome back. >> Thank you, thank you. It's great to be here with you both. >> Dave: Good to see you again. >> So, we saw you on stage on Monday, recognizing innovators and trailblazers. I always love, as a marketer, when customers are recognized for their achievements because the voice of the customer is the best brand validation that you can get. Talk to us about the customer awards program and highlight a few of the winners that were on stage. >> Well, first of all, I agree with you, Lisa, that the best way to talk about your products and your solutions is to do it through the eyes of the customer, so being able to honor eight of our super most inspiring customers on stage was great. We had hundreds of submissions from our sales teams working with our customers. We really wanted to bring the transformation stories to life. The stories that we were able to tell and the evolution that these customers have done in their industry and their business, was remarkable, so, you think about Ford and the autonomous car. You think about J and J and the work they're doing around securing their customer data. You think about Volvo and Zenuity, and the opportunities that they have had with technology and then some of my favorite, Arrowfarms, >> Love that. >> Teleconnected farm, and they're using technology in Newark, New Jersey, to transform the way that farming is done, conserving our natural resources, using 95% less water, and being able to do it, and, this, the IOT of farming, they're just all super rich and really really great stories. >> And then, you got, I have to ask you to say it, to pronounce, I loved your pronunciation of, Unidad, come on, help me. >> I know it was the first one, right? >> Dave: Unidad de Conocimiento. (laughing) >> Yes, yeah, you got it right, you got it right. >> Okay. >> They're a great story, too, right, I mean, here's an organization in Colombia that is a consolidation of different industries that are providing these services across Colombia and Latin America. They've absolutely figured out how to take a country like Columbia out of the perils of what has happened there with the drug cartel, really thrive on economic prosperity and they're absolutely kicking butt when it comes to the services that they're providing to all of their, their customers, so it's... >> And the state bank of India, was that the other one? >> State bank of India. >> They really had a global representation, it's awesome. >> Well, we looked hard for that. We looked hard for the global representation. We also looked really really hard and gave extra points to companies that had a purpose and a soul, so what they were doing, either with the technology or with the services that they're providing to their end customers, what's that, that purpose side? And, you know, you saw that in a number of these really awesome organizations. >> I'm going to ask you, so I'm going to ask a leadership question. When we first met, I think it was at Dell World. It might have been 2012, I think you were CMO of Dell at the time, so you, like a lot of leaders, you chair hop, that's kind of what you do. So you've now, playing it up. >> But 18 years at Dell, so, you know. >> Right, but, right, so, you take your best leaders and you say, alright, go fix this problem, go fix this problem, go, go inspire some people to do that, so, you've been, and also it's the, is it the chief customer office that you started? >> I did. Well, actually, Michael started it. >> A year and a half ago? >> Right. >> Well, what's that all about? How's the progress going? Give us the update there. >> Well, you know, I have to tell you, I give a ton of credit to Michael because he saw an opportunity in something that was quite new and quite novel, and now you look a year and a half later at what some of our competitors and others are doing. You know, Microsoft just named somebody that sits at their executive leadership team meeting, recognizing that customer relationships are the ultimate prize. Our ability to deliver a great customer experience is going to be the, is the next battleground, and, we've been leading in that area now for a year and a half, so, I'm the first chief customer officer ever at Dell Technologies, and our mission is really to make sure that we continue to push the needle, and drive an even better end to end customer experience. We're doing a lot around taking our top, most important customers, and there's a couple of thousand of them at Dell. I'm not talking about five or six, I'm talking about like thousands of customers that have consistently honored us with their business over the years so how do we put high touch, high loyalty kind of programs in place? The customer awards were a great way to recognize some of those top customers and put them on the stage and tell their story, and the piece that gets me even more excited is what we're doing around our customer data, so, how do we unleash the power of our customer data? How do we integrate it? How do we automate it? How do we put real time predictive analytics? By looking at a customer end to end and being able to figure out if that account is going to go red, because they've had a combination of things, go figure out what are the sources of value for them and unleash those, so, we're living in this AI big data world and living it realtime with, under the remit of the chief customer office. >> And if I heard you correctly, at the leadership team, you're kind of the voice of the customer? >> I am, I am. There's a lot of voices for the customer. >> Well, yeah, because the head, the head of sales are going to be doing that and. >> But they all come with their own bias, right? Or their own lens, right, so, we're actually, my team is a very very strong partner to our heads of sales, because sometimes heads of sales, I mean, they see these things clearly the same way that we do, but sometimes the voice around, well, this isn't working, we need to get better at this, our customers want us to go faster here, tends to get lost in, you know, business performance and close rates and all of that, and we have this unique ability to look at this end to end, and help to really advocate on behalf of customers and really do the right thing for them at the end of the day. >> Independent of the transaction metrics, is what you're saying. >> Yes. >> And it's different perspective, right? We talked about the voice of the customer being an objective brand validation, and you come from a different perspective. One of the things that, we had your CIO on earlier today, Bask, and he said, "We drink our own champagne." And then we had Ravi Pentaconti and he says, we eat our own dog food, we're right next to the therapy dogs. So I like that, but from what you're saying, you're using customer data to help make Dell Technologies differentiated, be able to revolutionize the customer experience, listening to those customers is key. Can you tell us a little bit more about how some of that data is being applied to revolutionize that experience? >> Sure, so, some of it's basic, some of it can be pretty transformational, so, and by the way Baz Guyer has been a significant partner with me on this journey, because he understands it. Listen, Dell's the only technology company out there today that has the rich, direct data that we have, combined with rich channel partner data. So, we have all of it, right? And some of our competitors do everything through the channel, a few of them do everything all direct, we do both. So, we have a huge advantage when it comes to that. We can look at the amalgamation of all of the listening posts that we have for our customers. We have a booth here, where we've brought in hundreds, thousands of customers, and we've asked them a series of questions. We have voice of the field surveys that we do with our sales team, we do NPS surveys, this survey, all of that. We can bring all of that together using big data and insights and we can prioritize the big things that matter. So one of the things that I see a lot of my peers at other companies get caught up in, is they're chasing 15 or 20 things. You know, at any given moment, we're chasing 3 to 5. And we want to move the needle on those 3 to 5 and then we want to get, capture and address the next ones. So that's what I would call kind of the basic, fundamental pieces. What I think is exciting, is, we can now take a view of a customer, a complete view of that customer, we know what they bought, we know who they bought it from, we know the number of escalations they've had, we know what their delivery performance has been, we know how many times they've changed the AE on the account we know what their corporate responsibility priorities are, and we can look at that in totality, and we can put an outreach kind of program in place for them, or, we can look at it and go, this one is about to go south, and we need to put our best people to go call on the account and help the account executive, who in a lot of ways sees this also, and help to figure out how to turn it around. >> So, and you can do that across the integrated company today? >> We have piloted across the integrated set of companies, and in the Q3 period of time, working closely with Baz, we're going to automate this and turn it into like an Amber Alert, early warning type of system, so that we can help the AE and our customers before things happen. And the other piece that we can do, is we know, we know the ten levers of customer value. And, you know, for the most part we do those generally well. But in some cases, some of the reasons that our customers come back to us is because we've discovered things at their account that they didn't even know was happening. So we're, we've got this power of big data sitting right in front of us with Chief Customer Office that can really, really light it up. >> Well the other thing you said is the account teams know when there's a problem, but the executive teams, they have limited resources. So you don't know where to prioritize. >> Right, and some of our AE's have more than one account. >> Dave: Yeah, right. >> So, you know, some of them are handling 20 accounts. So where this thing becomes really interesting is as you think about scaling it, down through the organization, not just at the top ones. The top accounts, they're one to, one-to-one kind of engagement, and those types of things. It gets really interesting when you start to get below that and you start to really use it in a more scaleable way. >> Plus, as you go more channel, right, and you go more to edge, you get all these complexities beyond just product portfolio. You're dealing with that stuff, but then the channel complexities, and then the new markets that are emerging, particularly in edge, and the channels that that's going to precipitate. >> Right, right. >> To me, this is even more important. >> So 18 months into this new role that Michael Dell created, lots of accomplishments, it sounds like you're really leveraging it to partner with customers to help, not just them, but also your internal teams, be able to identify where there needs to be escalations. What are some of the things that you're opening up with respect to diversity and inclusion, because that's also under your purview? >> That's right, that's right Lisa. What I think is really interesting is how much our sales teams now is coming to my team, to use some of these other platforms to open doors and have conversations with CIOS that they could not get before. So I'll give you a perfect case in point. The sales leader in the U.K. came to me and said, "I have a particular account in London, "I haven't really been able to make any progress, "the CIO is a woman, their head of infrastructure is a woman "you're going to be there in London, would you send her a note "and let's have a conversation around some of the things "that we have some mutual interest in." Technology being one, as well as getting more women involved in to technology. So we had this conversation, an hour in, she said, you know, if Dell would host a session with other female CIOs in the U.K area, I will open up my Rolodex and we will get other women to come. Two months later, we did it, in London in January. I was there, Michael was there, our heads of sales were there, we had about 15 or 20 of these super impressive women in the public sector, the private sector, higher education universities, big brands, we just did a similar one here at Dell Technologies World. We just hosted, as a matter of fact yesterday, 20 women, we actually had a couple of men that were there, too, all just coming together talking about areas that we deeply care about. How do we get more women and minorities interested in these technology fields. >> And here we are in 2018, this is still such an issue, and it's something that's still surprising when we get to see females on stage in keynotes, like yourself, like Allison Doo who was just chatting with you, Dave, and Stu. It's still, we're actually kind of going, hey, we're starting from a deficit whereas 20 30 years ago we were kind of going up. What are some of the things that you hear from your male peers in terms of the importance of showing multiple generations of girls and women you do belong here, if this is something that you're interested in, do not be afraid. >> Yeah, what I find remarkable in these conversations is there's clearly a number of key themes that are emerging. One of the biggest ones is, this is an economic imperative. You think about, there's going to be 1.1 million jobs in the computer science technology field over the next ten years. 45% of those jobs are going to be filled by U.S. college grads. It's a gap 55%. Women that are graduating in the area of computer science and technology is down, significantly, from like 30% down to like 18% right now. You are simply not going to have enough of what has been the traditional workforce in order to fill these jobs. So, that's one, and that's one that we at Dell care about a lot. Second piece that we care about, is, we just know that when you bring together a diverse group of individuals, always get to a better answer for your customers, you do. Research has proven it, we can prove it, we can see it, all of that. And then the third piece is, I just think women bring unique skills in a collaborative global context that can really bust through some of the big, complex, thorny opportunities that corporations are working through. >> So, ladies, let me jump in here, if I may. So there's two sides to this coin is, one is yes, we've got to get young women excited, but the other is you've got to promote women to leadership positions. Obviously Dell does a good job of that, clearly IBM gets high marks for that, I mean one of the sad things about seeing Meg Whitman go was that you had a dynamic woman leader. Maybe not the greatest speaker in the world, but one-on-one, super strong, and I think an inspiration to a lot of young women. And I think our industry clearly, Silicon Valley, Boston, just not doing enough. Particularly in smaller companies, larger companies I think do a better job, so your thoughts on that? >> My thought on that is it's a hard problem, but at its very basic, it's actually quite simple. And these are the things that we're doing at Dell, it takes commitment from the top, and at all levels of the company to make change, drive the accountability, set goals. To your point, go place some bets on the younger generation up-and-coming diverse talent, put them in roles, and then surround them with a support system that they need to be successful. And, we've done that, you know, Michael has done that, he did it with me. When, six or seven years ago, he called me and said how'd ya like to be Dell's next Chief Marketing Officer? And then you know, called me 18 months ago and said, how'd ya like to be Dell's first Chief Customer Officer. You need people that see things in that talent and you need that commitment. You need a culture that supports that. You need more role models. You need to get rid of and totally eliminate the harassment and the bullying and the old boys kind of club. You've got to create places where women and minorities feel like they can be themselves. Culture plays a huge, huge, huge role. And then, you know, communities play a huge role. So we have a very, very growing and thriving employee resource group set of networks. We have 14 of them across Dell and Dell EMC. And they're just a safe haven for where people of color, women, LGBT, veterans, disabilities can come and just be themselves, and be with others that they feel safe with. So, some level, it's not that hard. It really does take the commitment and the wherewithal and the sense of urgency that says we've got to fix it, and we have to fix it now. >> I feel like 2017 was a milestone year, I'd love to know what your thoughts are. You had that incident in the tech industry, with that poor misguided soul from Google who decided to write this Jerry Maguire memo and just brought a lot of attention to the issue, and then the #MeToo movement, so I feel like 2018 is a more optimistic year, but still, a lot of that stuff that you were talking about goes on, and it needs to be exposed. Again, I think the #MeToo movement brings that out and a lot of people are thinking uh-oh, wow. This really has to stop. Your thoughts, do you agree with that, or do you just think, no Dave, we're still way too far away. >> I think what #MeToo has done is opened a lot of eyes around how pervasive all of this is. I know, in the case of Dell, we have a zero tolerance zero tolerance policy when it comes to all of that. What was so shocking to us is how pervasive it still was in either other companies or other industries. To me, what is encouraging now, is the conversation is going beyond harassment, to aggression and bullying and culture and some of the things that have happened over the years, and by the way, it happens across all genders. There's articles that are being written now about women that are bullying and have bullied, so. This is something that all corporations need to be setting the tone around what are the right behaviors and those types of things, and we've been doing that now, for years. The other piece that I feel very strongly about, is, if men retreat from this conversation, that is a huge problem, a huge problem. Leaders like you have to be part of it. They have to be part of, this has to change. I want to be part of the solution. I have daughters, or wives, or nieces or whatever it is that I know that they have just as much capability as boys and men do, and my job is to help them. So I love it, I love the way that men and women are both coming together and engaging in this conversation. And we are seeing progress. I think everybody wants it to be faster, but we are seeing progress. Hey, yesterday at this CIO round table that we have, one of my favorite quotes, we got into this whole conversation around, well what is the next generation feeling? And one of the women that was there said, "hey, my daughter told me three weeks ago, "you know mom, she goes, I really think, "to me it's really simple. "I want to be a mom and I want to be a CEO." It's that simple. >> Wow, I love that. So in the last few seconds or so, Karen, you've made a tremendous amount of progress impact as the Chief Customer Officer in 18 months. What are you looking forward to accomplishing the rest of 2018? >> Well I think the thing that gets me really energized, too is how we're applying our technology in the area of corporate responsibility and innovation. So, you know, you saw our plastic bottle demo that we had here, that fish moves from one event to another, we got really serious around how do we play a really key role in stopping the plastics from entering the ocean? So there's 86 million metric tons of plastic that is in the ocean today. By the year 2050, there will be more pieces of plastic in the ocean than there are fish. You have to stop the plastic from entering the ocean, which is a pilot project that we did about a year ago, and we recently announced an expansion of that called next wave, where we have our customers that are partnering with us to figure out how do we scale that? So, General Motors, Herman Miller, are just a couple of examples. And then, at CES this year, we announced an effort that we're doing around how do you extract gold out of motherboards, and using that, and recycling that back into our motherboards and using it in jewelry manufacturing. So we partnered with a jewelry manufacturer out of the West Coast, Nikki Reed. She is creating this jewelry, these rings, through recycled gold, and it's 99% more environmentally friendly. So, I love the fact that we can use our technology to innovate, change the world, use, reuse the stuff that we're putting into the economy. So, scaling these is a big, big priority for me in 2018. >> Dave: Awesome. >> Wow, momentum is the only word I can think of to describe what you've achieved, what you're doing so far. Karen, thank you so much for stopping by and chatting with Dave and me, and congratulations on what you've accomplished, and we look forward to talking to you next year. >> Thanks, thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE we are live, finishing up day three at Dell Technologies World in Las Vegas, I am Lisa Martin for Dave Vellante, thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live at the inaugural IBM Think 2018 event. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante. And our first guest, on day one of our coverage, is Jerry Thompson, the Chief Revenue Officer of Identity Guard. Hey Jerry, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, well, it's a pleasure to be here. >> So tell us about Identity Guard. What are you guys, what do you do and how are you working with IBM? >> Yeah, Identity Guard is a, is a subsidiary of Intersections. We are a publicly-traded company and we're only in the identity and privacy space. So we, today, protect about 1.4 million people's identities. They, it's a subscription-based service. And two and a half years ago, we made the decision to, to basically invent identity 2.0 and the only way to do that was to use artificial intelligence technology, so we went to Watson to do that. >> This is a giant leap that you mentioned. >> Huge. >> So let's kind of, maybe, break that down a little bit and really talk about what you're doing here that was really transformative. >> Yeah, so, identity protection companies today only look at structured data. And, basically, we look at structured data and we look at it in arrears, so we can't do anything proactive or preventive. We knew if we used Watson in an AI technology, we could monitor unstructured data, which is probably 90% of all the data out there about any of us. And in order, in doing so, we could do preventive and predictive analysis of your personal information, privacy and your identity. So there was a quantum leap to go from just reacting to actually proactively protecting people's identity and privacy. >> So could you take us through, sort of, the journey that you went on to go from, sort of, where you were to where you are now and where you're headed? >> Yeah so, I mean, it starts like every other company with Watson. We took the tour of the Watson building. Went upstairs to the glass conference rooms and in that conference room, waiting for us, was the CIO of Watson. >> Dave: When was this? >> Two and a half years ago. >> Okay. >> And we explained the problem we were trying to solve. And from that day forward, IBM has been an amazing partner for us, amazing partner. So we did all of the things. We went through a Scrum, we wrote some product code, we did, you know, proof of concept, and when we were convinced that we could actually reinvent this industry, we went all-in. >> Keep going. >> And that was two and a half years ago. >> So, so, so a lot of people would say "Okay, Watson's a heavy lift, "you got to have a lot of services." It sounds like you did but the outcome is really what you're driving toward. So what was the outcome you were looking for and what'd you have to do to get there? >> Yeah so, I mean, at the highest level, we wanted to protect not only your financial and credit data, but all of the data that's out there about you and your partner, spouse, wife and kids. And in order to do that you need a processing engine that actually is intelligent. So that was the journey in Watson. We have found it to be not a big, heavy lift. We had the right kind of data scientists and we knew the problems we were trying to solve. Not in the abstract, in the particular. We defined the stories and the categories that we wanted to play in. We defined the product as we wanted to launch it. We knew it was going to be a one to two year run because you have to invent it, create it, then you have to play with it, right? You have to run it through the machine, so, >> Iterate. >> Right, and iterate. So, in order to do that, we knew the timeframe so we were never frustrated. And, along that journey, we came up with other things that we thought would be amazing to include in the service so, like cyberbullying technology, geolocation technology. All kinds of other things where only Watson would help us do that. >> And, and the data scientists were on your team >> Our team, yeah. or IBM brought those to the table? Okay, so you >> Yeah, no, IBM always let us reference their, but we have a handful in Virginia and some more in California in our development center. >> So you're one of the lucky ones who had a team, a bench, of data scientists >> Yes. >> at your disposal to go, is that right? >> Yeah, I wouldn't say a deep bench, but we've added to it over time, as you, as you get into the way you want to solve this problem. >> And, and how, specifically, are you using Watson? Can you give us, add some color on the APIs that you're using >> Sure. >> and how you're applying them? >> So we use natural-language processing because we pour amazing amount of data through the Watson funnel. Social media data, geolocation, Alchemy News. And we need the natural-language to actually jump and, and search for key words and key intimates. We use emotion analysis API, sentiment analysis API for context. So we're reading social media posts, your kids' posts. Your kid might say "Boy, I killed it "on the soccer field today." That's not a threat, right, that's just a statement. You have to add context to the statement. In order to do that, we use emotion and sentiment APIs. We use visual image recognition for inappropriate things that might be coming through. We use Alchemy News, which I believe is Discovery today. We're in the process, with the help of IBM, to create a library, a language, around emojis. Some emojis can be very threatening in the way they're used and the context they're used. You have to be able to read it, intelligently read it, and then put it in context to the string of texts or Instagram posts or whatever, that are going back and forth. So we, we've really taken this holistic view of what Watson can do, help us do for unstructured data and, in that process, it made our ability to monitor structured data better. We learned a lot. So we actually got benefits on both sides of our business. >> So you talked about this quantum leap that, that you made to identity 2.0. Also, what you're doing, in your space is quite pioneering in that, you're >> Yes. >> the only, first and only company, in the space that's using AI. Cyberbullying is such a hot, very challenging topic and, and sadly one that's very much needed in terms of identity. >> Right. >> But why do you think it is that, that Identity Guard is, is so pioneering in this space? >> Yeah, you know, we've always been, we, first of all, Identity Guard invented the identity business 23 years ago. We're the first ones to ever do it, first ones to do credit scores, reports. So we've always innovated in this space. The, the challenge for us as a public company, our biggest competitor is the credit bureaus, right? And the credit bureaus are low-cost providers and, and, candidly, I think they stamp out innovation in our field because they just want it to be about credit data. They don't want it to be about other things. So it was time for somebody to take this leap to predictive and preventive technologies, not just reactive. The rear view mirror can tell you a lot but it can't help you protect today, and that's what we've been doing in our space. >> Well the dossier from a credit bureau is so limited. >> Right. >> It doesn't provide context. You know, your score goes up or down for weird reasons. 'Cause people are doing credit pulls or whatever it is. You don't really have a context of what's going on there. So, so my question to you, Jerry, is where do you see innovation going in this space? Obviously data is involved and the credit bureaus have data but where is innovation going to come from in the next five to 10 years? >> Yeah, you know, I think it's the, we're going to figure out how to harvest data that's out there and then score that data so that we can help you and your family stay safe. Nobody today wants to have no internet, right? The internet's opened up an amazing amount of capability for people. But, but you have to have a way to play in it without it being too dangerous. And I believe we can use Watson. That's our, it's been our theory from day one. We can use Watson to level the playing field, right? Not, not really get an advantage, but to level the playing field, especially for families where not everybody is aware of all of the malfeasance that's out there on the internet, right? >> Right. >> People are always looking to harvest our data and to use it in a malicious way. Especially kids and minors, right? They're at risk for cyber, you know, predation and stalking and cyberbullying and, and parents today know it's a big issue. >> Okay, go ahead please Lisa. >> I was just going to say, in terms of expectations, you're saying it's to level the playing field with the cyber criminals, the stalkers, in the next, you know, can we look at timeframe? Think that you'll get ahead of that to start actually preventing some of this cyberbullying going on? >> You know, I, that's a good question. I will tell you right now, our ambition is to level the playing field. It's tilted this way today. I think what will happen is technology's like geolocation. It seems, first of all geolocation is not really relevant without Watson Discovery, right? You need all of this massive data going on in the locations that you're relevant in to help us protect you. But I believe, based on the early science that we're doing with IBM, that we can actually help a kid, somebody's stalking them from, you know, four states away but it says it's the little boy across town, we can actually stop things like that happening using the processing and the algorithms that we're doing using Watson. So there are, there are relevant areas that I think we can have a massive impact on the privacy and the protection of people and their families. >> I want to come back to innovation, so data is clearly a key component of that. You're extending the data model into unstructured data. I'm hearing that, correct? >> Yes. >> Also, AI, machine intelligence is another part of that. What about scale? Scale and network effects >> Yeah. >> and that sort of component of innovation. >> That had to be >> Does that come from cloud, is that where it's coming from? >> That had to be part of this. So we, along with all of our competitors in the existing 1.0 business, we use a hard-coded platform. >> Right. >> Right, I mean, if you want to change something, you have to get out a sledgehammer and a chisel and it takes a year. We built Watson using AWS, so we've used all the best tools, the fastest tools. We've run scale testing, you know, and, and the beautiful thing about our business, we're a digital business, right, so our factory's open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Our shopping carts never close. You can always, you know, subscribe to the Identity Guard With Watson service. So we needed the cloud to give us the scale. We also needed the platform to be able to plug in and unplug the APIs. Some partners may not want social media monitoring. Some partners may not want this, so we didn't have to hard-code our product. We actually built three services and we can unplug any of the services. >> So, when you say you're a digital business, it strikes me that your data model is not in a bunch of silos. >> Correct. >> You've got a data model that's accessible, maybe through sets of APIs, et cetera, that your human experts can go attack. >> Correct. >> Is that a fair assertion? >> Yeah, that's fair. One other thing about Watson. We were going to use Watson from day one, I was convinced. And I was the one that took the company on this journey. But the other thing I like about Watson is that you don't, Watson doesn't keep the data, right? We talked to the other big players in this field and one of their mandates is, they always keep the data. All of it. And, and Watson shreds the data and we don't keep all the data. So think of all the social media and other data that flows through this funnel. People out there want to keep it so then they can reverse profile consumers or cohorts or, Watson shreds the data. You're not in the, you're not in the spoofing or spying business, nor are we. So that was also a really important consideration. >> Yeah, I said that at the top, that you're, you're going to hear this from Ginni tomorrow. I can almost guarantee ya, she's going to say that we're not in the business of trying to re-mine your data and re-target. >> Right. >> But, so that was, I was going to ask you why Watson. That was one reason. What about the quality of the, of the machine intelligence? >> Yeah. >> You hear a lot, you know, you hang around Silicon Valley, "Oh yeah, Watson." How does it compare, in your view? >> Yeah. >> You're a practitioner who's, you know, you're familiar with all this. >> So they have more refined, first of all, more APIs, right? More, some of them not relevant to us, the medical ones, which are amazing and fascinating, >> Yeah, but, yeah. >> but they had more structured APIs and a better road map on where they were going. And what we found from day one is that, if we defined something, they would say "We'll jump in and help", right? It's really important when you're the first one, you know, the tip of the spear, you don't know, you don't know what you don't know. And we found from day one, the IBM team has treated us like we're General Electric, right? Or General Motors, right? We're just, you know, a couple of hundred million dollar company trying to make a big difference in a important space. And they have treated us like a Fortune 100 company from day one and really appreciate it. >> So as >> And their science is so good. >> Sorry there, as the CRO, going from identity 1.0 to 2.0, this journey that you're on. You mentioned competition. How many, talk to us about the actual financial impact to the company that you can say that you've been able to achieve on this journey to identity 2.0. Presumably, leaving some of your competition back in the 1.0 land. >> Yeah, yeah, actually, our competition will be behind us for at least a couple years 'cause it takes a couple years. You know, you don't do this quickly. So we are out, we launched, we launched Watson in December. We actually launched, we distribute our product through partners, most of it, 90%. 10%, people come to our site and sign up online but we launched 21 partners in January, 11 in February, 13 in March we'll launch. So by the end of the year, we predict we'll have about 200 Watson partners distributing our product, which would give us a huge head start and advantage over anybody else. Once you see what we're doing and you see what else, the 1.0 version, it's almost impossible to pick 1.0. It's impossible, right? So our job is to get more, create more awareness in the distribution channels so that people are, are understand that Watson is out there and available. >> And, and this is a subscription service, I think you said, upfront? >> Yeah. >> And you've got different tiers, etc? >> Yes, yes. >> And you guys have a couple of, of sessions >> that you're participating in at the event? >> We do. >> Yeah, I know that we're on tomorrow afternoon and I believe Wednesday morning. >> Great. >> So, yeah. >> Well Jerry, thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE >> You're welcome. >> and sharing what you guys at Identity Guard are doing with data, >> Thank you. >> I mean, it's fascinating. >> Appreciate you talking to us. >> Dave: Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, thanks, pleasure. >> And we want to thank you for watching theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante again. This is day one of theCUBE's three days of coverage at the inaugural IBM Think 2018. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest after a short break. (bright music)

>> Announcer: Live from Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, covering Mobile World Congress 2017. Brought to you by Intel. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. We're live here in Palo Alto, California for SiliconANGLE Media's theCUBE special two-day coverage of Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, Spain. As people starting to get ready to take that nap to go out all night in Barcelona after they've had their tapas and wine we're here in California breaking it all down. Two days of coverage, this is end of day two in Spain. We're in the middle of it here, and breaking down the analysis, covering all the news, commentary, identifying the trends and talking to the folks here in the Bay Area that can add value to the conversation, and our next guest is Bob Stefanski, who's the managing director of eLab, located in Palo Alto, a venture capitalist making investments and really a key player bridging Silicon Valley with Michigan Motor City here bringing the two worlds together as the autonomous vehicles and the automotive industry's under massive disruption and change, and the car companies know about it and they're not afraid of it. Ford's here, GM's here, they're all here, and now we have Bob Stefanski here in theCUBE. Bob, good to see ya, thanks for coming in. >> John, thanks for having me on. It's good to be here. >> I love this story, and I think this is not really well documented, but this is the beginning of what's been happening for a while, kind of as an outpost to Michigan and Motor City, you have some satellite offices in Palo Alto or Silicon Valley. They're close to Stanford, close to Cal, close to a lot of the research, but now it's a change where you're starting to see Ford, GM, all the car companies, BMW, big venture fund as well, all here in Silicon Valley because the software defined blank is everything, so software-defined radios in 5G, big story at Mobile World Congress, software-defined networks, the world is software-driven, so they're here. You're bridging the investments, trying to identify the key trends. >> Bob: You bet. >> To help identify this new game-changing technology that's going to bring a whole new world together, and certainly Intel and others are changing the networks, creating an end-to-end architecture digitally to bring autonomous vehicles, media entertainment, smart cities, the smart home, and we're seeing Alexa, Google's got their device, and you're seeing smart cities. What's the big bridge being built around? I mean, obviously, the cars themselves are changing. What is this bridge between Silicon Valley and Michigan Motor City? Obviously, that's a big part of Uber and whatnot. >> Absolutely, John, you know, I grew up in Michigan, I grew up in the days before there was a single chip, I think, in cars. I worked for General Motors when I was a summer intern in the early '80s in the engineering group there. There was a very distinct automotive culture. I then fast forward 20 years, and I'm in Silicon Valley. I've spent the majority of my career here in Silicon Valley doing Silicon Valley things, so software, enterprise software was where I spent most of my career with TIBCO software. We are now bridging these two things. We're bridging, the automotive industry is, I think we all know, anyone who's paying attention, the car now has a lot of chips in it, and it's about to have a lot more, the car is becoming a data center on wheels. It's becoming another mobile device, a very big mobile device, and the really neat thing is with, we're the only venture fund with offices and partners located in both places. We have fairly deep networks and connections into the whole Michigan ecosystem back there in automotive, and of course, we're out here in Silicon Valley as well. It's been fascinating to see after spending, after having that early childhood experience, young adult experience as I was growing up in the auto industry, and really kind of the heyday of the auto industry, maybe the beginning of the decline in the '70s and early '80s, and then having sort of spent the career working on the latest, greatest, newest technologies as they've come along out here in Silicon Valley. This is a fascinating time to see these two now finally merging together with autonomous vehicles. >> One of the things that we're seeing in Intel, obviously the bellwether, and they always have the long game going and make the big bets, and autonomous vehicles and virtual reality is that showcase, but what I find interesting and I want to get your thoughts on and reaction to is that I shared on my Facebook feed a post by autoblog.com that says, "Race for autonomous cars is over in Silicon Valley." And they were kind of pointing to the obvious things that people are seeing today, which is myopic and narrow in my opinion, but obviously Apple kind of tapped out of building a car, and I think a lot of people thought, "Oh, Apple should build a car. "They built a watch, why not build a car?" Obviously, they forgot about Teslas here, so I'm not sure what they're thinking, but I think they missed the point that it's bigger than the actual car. Could you share some color commentary around the mindset of Detroit? Because we're seeing that certainly Ford's not lookin' the other way, they have their finger on the pulse. Others do as well. What is the general mindset for the folks in both ecosystems and how are they working together right now? >> Sure, that's a great question, John. And you said it right at the outset, look, all the autos are here, and they're here in our backyard in Palo Alto. They've really sort of migrated here over the last five, seven years probably. GM is here, Ford is here in a big way, BMW's here, Mercedes' here. So they all obviously recognize that the car's becoming all about technology, and they need to be, if they're going to be a key part of that in the future, they need to be out here, and they need to be understanding that, on the other hand, making cars is hard. Making cars is not a simple thing, and this is where 70% of auto research in the U.S. is still happening in Michigan in the Detroit area. Michigan has a very high density of automotive engineers, and integration engineers and integrating IT with the autos and so forth. There's a lot of talent there, there's a lot of experience there. I think, you know, frankly probably the biggest and most interesting thing in this bridge is going to be to watch the cultures either integrate or not, and there's a lot of talk about who wins and the autos can't move fast enough, and that may be the case, but we'll find out. I'm not so sure. They know how to compete and there's a lot of smart people. >> There's no way that Detroit's going away. >> Bob: Not at all. >> My view is they're very solid, and I think they got good self-awareness, and I think if you look at the signals, I would say that I'm pretty confident it's just a matter of how they get reconfigured in this new value-creation model around 5G and whatnot. But I want to get your thoughts on another point, which is if you look at what the iPhone did, that created a new class of app developer and that, I would call them, on one hand artisan developers, people who are composing much more design-centric, obviously, and then, you still had the hardcore developers, and that was lower in the stack, but also other harder problems. But when you talk about automotive, there are some serious technology challenges that require, I won't say old-school engineering, but really hardcore engineering. You're talking about wireless, which is a physics issue, you have all kinds of policy challenges, but really hardcore engineering and software development. I'm not discounting what the app guys are doing, but certainly there will be plenty of apps like all that more the finishing touches in, say, cars for instance. What are some of those technologies because that's really where you need to see the classic double-E, computer science, physics gurus, the real PhD kind of guys. What's your thoughts and what trends do you see in that hardcore area? >> Absolutely, you know, I mean, look, we all know that cars are no longer about just axles and engines, and those hard things. But I think when we make this transition to highly automated, to fully autonomous vehicles, the technologies that are driving that, the fundamental technologies and the really hard stuff are around sensors, right. We're constantly developing newer, faster, better, further range, more precise sensors, so we're talking about Lidar, we're talking about of course, Mobileye and what's happening with the camera and vision processing. We're talking about even radar, a 1940s technology that actually is changing very fast. There's a lot of interesting things happening. >> AI's an old technology coming back now and getting rebooted with cloud computing and whatnot. >> Yeah, absolutely, and then, connecting all that to the cloud, right. I think the hardest, and I think we talked about this before, probably still the single hardest piece and the point of this fear on this is artificial intelligence at the end of the day. It's the same stuff that's driving virtual reality, it's the same stuff that's driving a lot of different things right now, but it's also true in self-driving cars. These things, when you make a car, first of all, it's got to be safe. It has got to be safe. The Department of Transportation, the government regulatory interest is in safety. To make a car safe, they have to be tested, tested, tested, tested, what's that about? Well, when autonomous takes over, it's no long John Furrier driving that car, it's the AI driving the car, right? How do you make it AI smart? >> The crash test dummy's inside AI. >> Right, this is fundamental deep learning. This is fundamental deep learning that the guys at Google know as much as anybody in the world and Facebook and all, you know, that we all know about the arms race in artificial intelligence, but that's at the core of what's happening in self-driving vehicles, and most of that talent, the talent is spread out, it's all over the world, but there's a lot of it out here. And they know they need to have those engineers here. >> What's interesting about your background, you mentioned when we started this segment, you have an enterprise software background in Silicon Valley and you've been very successful, it's interesting, we were talking yesterday and we kind of validated this morning on our opening segment around Mobile World Congress, it's a two-show game right now. It's kind of a bipolar show. You got devices, the new phones, the glam and the sizzle, Samsung and so on, so forth, LG. >> Bob: Can't wait. >> And then you got the TelCo show, which is, TelCo's trying to figure things out, but what's interesting is what we noticed is that there's really a trend between enterprise computing concepts, network data center with consumer clash, so there's a direct collision course between the TelCos which serve as consumers, but the infrastructure challenges are all enterprise. >> Bob: Right, right. >> And the number one thing that's key there is integration and ecosystems. So, you kind of have the right background for this, so we want to get your thoughts on ecosystem integration concepts where a lot of boats in the harbor, so rising tide will float all boats, we see that as a trend, but also integrating. You mentioned the testing, so it's not one company's going to do all this. >> It's not one company that's going to do all this, and in fact, it's going to one of the more complex integrations we've ever undertaken because we're going to have to have those automotive engineers, we're going to have to have those, the software developers, we're going to have to have the AI guys, we're going to have to have the sensor guys, and it's all going to the cloud ultimately. And don't forget GPS, you got GPS. You got a lot. >> Connectivity challenges. Mobility. >> Connectivity challenges, and of course, 5G when 5G comes down the line is going to be a critical part of this as well. You're also going to have smart cities, you're going to have infrastructure embedded in the environment, and in particular, the highly dense areas is where it'll happen first. It's not going to, rural America and so forth, they're going to be probably driving their cars without the embedded sensor for a while, but there are a lot of different components to integrate. >> We had a CTO on earlier before, Val Bercovici, he was talking about the cloud native architecture really plays well in this market because it's not so much about the one car, it's about the one cars in relations to thousands of other cars that are self-driving. It's a multi-touch data equation. Alright, Bob, final question I want to get to you is what are you investing in? What are some of the things that you're looking at? Can you share? I know some of the stuff is pretty stealthy on your end, 'cause it's pretty high end, but can you share any, show a little leg on investments you've made? >> You bet, you bet. Yeah, John, we're, some of the, probably the coolest stuff I can't talk about right now, you're right. Hint hint, it's in some of the things I've already talked about. We're certainly in artificial intelligence. We have a portfolio company in that. We're looking at others. In better sensors, some of the sensor areas I talked about, we are in the process of looking at companies. We have investments in the connected space, not autonomous, but connected space, which is also going to be a very big and important part of this. Company called Aperia right up here that is, at the end of the day, they're tire inflation, but it's all about data. They do automated tire inflation, connected, they'll be connecting every fleet in America. And so we're-- >> It's those boring little efficiency areas that really yield a lot of cash. We just talked about a guest about waste optimize, waste disposal industries. >> Absolutely. >> Little things that are luring billion dollar innovations. >> Little things, very big problems, right, and it's where you can marry things like tire inflation on commercial fleets with data, with lots of data that we never had before. And then apply artificial intelligence to that to learn what's happening and map an entire fleet or multiple fleets nationwide, worldwide, collect all that data and start to correlate and understand what. Those are the problems that are, where a lot of value can be added actually with these technologies. >> It's super interesting, and I think you got a great opportunity, congratulations. Great to see the bridge between Silicon Valley and Michigan Motor City, and I think that's anecdotally means automotive, but there's probably other bridges your connecting, too. Bob, thanks for coming in and sharing. Final question for you while we got you, got a little bit more time. What premises would you, are you betting on? I mean, everyone has a premise, and you mentioned before you came on-camera that one of your premises is that automotive won't miss mobility. What other premises are you investing, what thesises are you building around? >> Well, look, for the, are you talking about autonomous vehicles or much--? >> For the bridge fund and how you're looking at the future of autonomous driving in the connected ecosystem, what are the premise, what's on the premise? >> The premise there is that we're in for what I think is going to be the biggest change in the biggest thing to happen in transportation ever, but it's not just transportation, so we're looking at areas that are not autonomous per se, but that are going to be fundamentally impacted, so services. We're talking about things like insurance, we're talking about all the shared services that are going to come out of this. Medicine is going to probably change, and there's some interesting plays there. And so all of this sort of periphery that is going to be disrupted, we're trying to look five years, 10 years ahead and look at how life is going to change, people's individual experiences are going to change, and how new services, in particular shared services, are going to be enabled by autonomy. >> Bob Stefanski here inside theCUBE, breaking down his commentary and direction of his investments bridging Silicon Valley with Michigan Motor City, or really looking at the autonomous future of vehicles and transportation. This is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier. We'll be back with more coverage and analysis of Mobile World Congress 2017 after this short break. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Announcer: It's The Cube. Covering HPE Big Data Conference 2016. Now here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Paul Gillin. >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody, this is The Cube, we're here live at HP's big data conference, hashtag seize the data. Steve Spear is here, he's an author, MIT professor, author of The High Velocity Edge, welcome to The Cube, thanks for coming on. >> Oh, thanks for having me. >> I got to tell you, following Phil Black, you were coming onstage, I have never heard you speak before, I said, "Oh, this poor guy," and you did awesome, you were great, you held the audience, so congratulations, you were very dynamic and he was unbelievable and you were fantastic, so. >> Today was second-worst speaking setup, one time I was on a panel where it was three admirals, a general, and then the other guy wearing a suit, I said, "Well at least another schmo in a suit," and his opening lines were, "You know, this reminds me, "when I was on the space shuttle and we were flying "to the Hubble," and I'm like, "A flipping astronaut, "I got to follow an astronaut?" So anyway, this was only a SEAL, there were a lot of them, there were far fewer astronauts, so that was easy. >> What I really liked about your talk is, first of all, you told the story of Toyota, which I didn't know, you may. >> No, my experience with Toyota was in the early '70s, I remember the Toyota sort of sweeping into the market but you talked about 20 years before it when they were first entering and how this really was a company that had a lot of quality problems and it was perceived as not being very competitive. >> Yeah, Toyota now people look at as almost, they just take for granted the quality, the productivity, they assume good labor relations and that kind of thing, it's non-unionized, not because the unions haven't tried to unionize, but the employees don't feel the need. And again, in the '50s, Toyota was absolutely an abysmal auto-maker, their product was terrible, their productivity was awful and they didn't have particularly good relations with the workforce either. I mean, it's a profound transformation. >> And you gave this test, in the 50s, I forget what it was, it was one-tenth the productivity of the sort of average automobile manufacturer and then they reached parity in '62, by '68 they were 2X, and by '73, they were off the charts. >> Right, right, right. >> Right, so amazing transformation and then you try to figure out how they did it and they couldn't answer, but they said, "We can show you," right? And that sort of led to your research and your book. >> Yeah, so the quick background is in some regards, this fellow Kenneth Bowen, who was my mentor and advisor when I was doing my doctorate, he could argue we were late to the game because people started recognizing Toyota as this paragon of virtue, high quality at low cost, and so that in the 1980s prompted this whole investigation and the term lean manufacturing came out of the realization that on any given day, Toyota and suppliers were making basically twice the product with half the effort and so you had this period of '85 to about '95 where there was this intense attempt to study Toyota, document Toyota, imitate Toyota, General Motors had a joint venture with Toyota, and then you have the mid-'90s and there's no second Toyota, despite all this investment, so we go to the Toyota guys and say, "Look, clearly if everyone is studying you, imitating you, "copying you, and they haven't replicated you, "they've missed something, so what is it?" And they say, "I'm sorry, but we can't tell you." And we said, "Well you got to be kidding, I mean, "you have a joint venture with your biggest competitor, "General Motors," and they said, "No, no, it's not that we wouldn't tell you, "we just actually don't know how to explain what we do "'cause most of us learn it in this very immersive setting, "but if you'd like to learn it, "you can learn it the way we do." I didn't realize at the time that it would be this Karate Kid wax-on, wax-off, paint-up, paint-down experience, which took years and years to learn and there are some funny anecdotes about it but even at the end, their inability to say what it is, so I went years trying to capture what they were doing and realizing I was wrong 'cause different things wouldn't work quite right, and I can tell you, I was on the Shinkansen with the guy who was my Toyota mentor and I finally said, "Mr. Oba, I think I finally "figured it out, it all boils down to these basic "approaches to seeing and solving problems." And he's looking over my cartoons and stuff and he says, "Well, I don't see anything wrong with this." (laughs) >> That was as good as it got. >> That was as good as it got, I was like, "Score, nothing wrong that he can see!" So anyway. >> But so if you talk about productivity, reliability, you made huge gains there, and the speed of product cycles, were the three knobs that Toyota was turning much more significantly than anybody else and then fuel efficiency came. >> Right, so if you start looking at Toyota and I think this is where people first got the attraction and then sort of the dismissive of, we don't make cars, so the initial hook was the affordable reliability, they could deliver a much higher-quality car, much more affordable based on their productivity. And so that's what triggered attention which then manifest itself as this lean manufacturing and its production control tools. What then sort of started to fall off people's radar is that Toyota not only stayed ahead on those dimensions but they added to the dimensionality of the game, so they started introducing new product faster than anybody else and then they introduced new brand more successfully so all the Japanese, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, all came out with a luxury version, but no one came out with Lexus other than Toyota. The Affinity and the Acura, I mean, it's nice cars, but it didn't become this dominant brand like the Lexus. And then in trying to hit the youth market, everyone tried to come up with, like Honda had the Element but nothing like the Scion, so then Toyota's, and that's much further upstream, a much more big an undertaking than just productivity in a factory. And then when it came time to this issue around fuel efficiency, that's a big technology play of trying to figure out how you get these hybridized technologies with a very very complex software engineering overlay to coordinate power flow in this thing and that, and everyone has their version of hybrid, but no one has it through six generations, 21 platforms, and millions of copies sold. So it didn't matter where you were, Toyota figured out how to compete on this value to market with speed and ease which no one else in their industry was replicating. >> You're talking about, this has nothing to do with operational efficiency, when you talk about the Scion for example, you're talking about tapping into a customer, into an emotional connection with your customer and being able to actually anticipate what they will want before they even know, how do you operationalize that? >> So I think, again, Toyota made such an impression on people with operational efficiency that a lot of their genius went unrecognized, so what I was trying to elaborate on this morning is that Toyota's operational efficiency is not the consequence of just more clever design of operations, like you have an algorithm which I lack and so you get to a better answer than I do, it was this very intense almost empathetic approach to improving existing operations, so you're working on something and it's difficult so we're perceptive of that difficulty and try to understand the source of that difficulty and resolve it, and just do that relentlessly about everything all the time, and it's that empathy to understand your difficulty which then becomes the trigger for making things better, so as far as the Scion comes in, what you see is the same notion of empathic design apply to the needs of the youth market. And the youth market unlike the folks who are, let's say at the time, middle-aged, was less about reliable affordability, but these were people who were coming of age during the Bannatyne era where, very fast mass customization or the iPod era, which was common Chassis but very fast, inexpensive personalization and the folks at Toyota said, "You know what, "the youth market, we don't really understand that, "we've been really successful for this older mid-market, "so let's try to understand the problems that the youth "are trying to solve with their acquisitions," and it turned out personalization. And so if you look at the Scion, it wasn't necessarily a technically or technologically sophisticated quote-unquote sexy product, what it did was it leant itself towards very diverse personalization, which was the problem that the youth market was trying to solve. And you actually see, if I can go on this notion of empathic design, so you see this with the Lexus, so I think the conventional wisdom about luxury cars was Uber technology and bling it, throw chrome and leather and wood and when Toyota tried that initially, they took what was I guess now the Avalon, full-sized car, and they blinged it up and it was contradictory 'cause if you're looking for a luxury car, you don't go to a Toyota dealer, and if you go to a Toyota dealer and you see something with chrome and leather and wood veneer, you're like, you have dissonance. So they tried to understand what luxury meant from the American consumer perspective and again, it wasn't, you always wish you'd get this job, but they sent an engineering team to live in Beverly Hills for some months. (laughs) It's like, ooh, twist my arm on that one, right? But what they found was that luxury wasn't just the physical product, it was the respectful service around it, like when you came back to your hotel room, you walked in, people remembered your name or remembered that, oh we noticed that you used a lot of bath towels so we made sure there were extra in your room, that sort of thing, and if you look at the Lexus, and people were dismissive of the Lexus, saying, "It looks like slightly fancier Toyota, "but what's the big deal, it's not a Beamer or Mercedes." But that wasn't the point, it was the experience you got when you went for sales and service, which was, you got treated so nice, and again, not like hoity toity but you got treated respectfully, so anyway, it all comes back to this empathic design around what problem is the customer or someone inside a plan trying to solve. >> So Toyota and Volkswagen trying to vie for top market share but Toyota, as you say, has got this brand and this empathy that Volkswagen doesn't. You must get a lot of questions about Tesla. Thoughts on Tesla. >> Yeah, cool product, cool technology and time will tell if they're actually solving a real problem. And I don't mean to be dismissive, it's just not an area where I've spent a lot of time. >> And we don't really know, I mean, it's amazing and a software-defined automobile and autonomous, very difficult to predict, we're very tight on time. >> All the cool people seem to drive them though. >> Yeah, that's true. Last question I have is, what the heck does this have to do with analytics at a conference like this? >> Right, so you start thinking about the Toyota model, really, it's not that you can sit down and design something right, it's that you design things which you know deep-rooted in your DNA is that what you've designed is wrong, and that in order to get it right and actually much righter than anything else in the marketplace, what you need to do is understand what's wrong about it and so the experience of the user will help inform what's wrong, the worker rounds they do, the inconveniences they experience, the coping, the compensation they do, and that you can not only use that to help inform what's wrong, but then help shape your understanding of how to get to right, and so where all this fits in is that when you start thinking about data, well first of all, these are gigantic systems, right, which it's probably well-informed to think in terms of these systems are being designed by flawed human beings so the systems themselves have flaws, so it's good to be attentive to the flaws that are designed in it so you can fix them and make them more usable by your intended clientele. But the other thing is that these systems can help you gain much greater precision, granularity, frequency of sampling and understanding of where things are misfiring sooner than later, smaller than larger, so you can adjust and adapt and be more agile in shaping the experience. >> Well Steve, great work, thanks very much for coming on The Cube and sharing and great to meet you. >> Yeah likewise, thanks for having me. >> You're welcome. Alright, keep it right there, everybody, Paul and I will be back with our next guest, we're live from Boston, this is The Cube, we'll be right back. (upbeat music)