>>Welcome to the Cube's Continuing coverage of AMD's fourth generation Epic launch. I'm Dave Nicholson and I'm joining you here in our Palo Alto Studios. We have two very interesting guests to dive into some of the announcements that have been made and maybe take a look at this from an AI and ML perspective. Our first guest is Milland Doley. He's a senior director for software and solutions at amd, and we're also joined by Shamus Jones, who's a director of server engineering at Dell Technologies. Welcome gentlemen. How are you? >>Very good, thank >>You. Welcome to the Cube. So let's start out really quickly, Shamus, what, give us a thumbnail sketch of what you do at Dell. >>Yeah, so I'm the director of technical marketing engineering here at Dell, and our team really takes a look at the technical server portfolio and solutions and ensures that we can look at, you know, the performance metrics, benchmarks, and performance characteristics, so that way we can give customers a good idea of what they can expect from the server portfolio when they're looking to buy Power Edge from Dell. >>Milland, how about you? What's, what's new at a M D? What do you do there? >>Great to be here. Thank you for having me at amd, I'm the senior director of performance engineering and ISV ecosystem enablement, which is a long winter way of saying we do a lot of benchmarks, improved performance and demonstrate with wonderful partners such as Shamus and Dell, the combined leverage that AMD four generation processes and Dell systems can bring to bear on a multitude of applications across the industry spectrum. >>Shamus, talk about that relationship a little bit more. The relationship between a M D and Dell. How far back does it go? What does it look like in practical terms? >>Absolutely. So, you know, ever since AM MD reentered the server space, we've had a very close relationship. You know, it's one of those things where we are offering solutions that are out there to our customers no matter what generation A portfolio, if they're, if they're demanding either from their competitor or a m d, we offer a portfolio solutions that are out there. What we're finding is that within their generational improvements, they're just getting better and better and better. Really exciting things happening from a m D at the moment, and we're seeing that as we engineer those CPU stacks into our, our server portfolio, you know, we're really seeing unprecedented performance across the board. So excited about the, the history, you know, my team and Lin's team work very closely together, so much so that we were communicating almost on a daily basis around portfolio platforms and updates around the, the, the benchmarks testing and, and validation efforts. >>So Melind, are you happy with these PowerEdge boxes that Seamus is building to, to house, to house your baby? >>We are delighted, you know, it's hard to find stronger partners than Shamus and Dell with AMD's, second generation epic service CPUs. We already had undisputable industry performance leadership, and then with the third and now the fourth generation CPUs, we've just increased our lead with competition. We've got so many outstanding features at the platform, at the CPU level, everybody focuses on the high core counts, but there's also the DDR five, the memory, the io, and the storage subsystem. So we believe we have a fantastic performance and performance per dollar performance per what edge over competition, and we look to partners such as Dell to help us showcase that leadership. >>Well. So Shay Yeah, through Yeah, go ahead >>Dave. What, what I'd add, Dave, is that through the, the partnership that we've had, you know, we've been able to develop subsystems and platform features that historically we couldn't have really things around thermals power efficiency and, and efficiency within the platform. That means that customers can get the most out of their compute infrastructure. >>So this is gonna be a big question moving forward as next generation platforms are rolled out, there's the potential for people to have sticker shock. You talk about something that has eight or 12 cores in a, in a physical enclosure versus 96 cores, and, and I guess the, the question is, do the ROI and TCO numbers look good for someone to make that upgrade? Shamus, you wanna, you wanna hit that first or you guys are integrated? >>Absolutely, yeah, sorry. Absolutely. So we, I'll tell you what, at the moment, customers really can't afford not to upgrade at the moment, right? We've taken a look at the cost basis of keeping older infrastructure in place, let's say five or seven year old infrastructure servers that are, that are drawing more power maybe are, are poorly utilized within the infrastructure and take more and more effort and time to manage, maintain and, and really keep in production. So as customers look to upgrade or refresh their platforms, what we're finding right is that they can take a dynamic consolidation sometimes 5, 7, 8 to one consolidation depending on which platform they have as a historical and which one they're looking to upgrade to. Within AI specifically and machine learning frameworks, we're seeing really unprecedented performance. Lin's team partnered with us to deliver multiple benchmarks for the launch, some of which we're still continuing to see the goodness from things like TP C X AI as a framework, and I'm talking about here specifically the CPU U based performance. >>Even though in a lot of those AI frameworks, you would also expect to have GPUs, which all of the four platforms that we're offering on the AM MD portfolio today offer multiple G P U offerings. So we're seeing a balance between a huge amount of C P U gain and performance, as well as more and more GPU offerings within the platform. That was real, that was a real challenge for us because of the thermal challenges. I mean, you think GPUs are going up 300, 400 watt, these CPUs at 96 core are, are quite demanding thermally, but what we're able to do is through some, some unique smart cooling engineering within the, the PowerEdge portfolio, we can take a look at those platforms and make the most efficient use case by having things like telemetry within the platform so that way we can dynamically change fan speeds to get customers the best performance without throttling based on their need. >>Melin the cube was at the Supercomputing conference in Dallas this year, supercomputing conference 2022, and a lot of the discussion was around not only advances in microprocessor technology, but also advances in interconnect technology. How do you manage that sort of research partnership with Dell when you aren't strictly just focusing on the piece that you are bringing to the party? It's kind of a potluck, you know, we, we, we, we mentioned P C I E Gen five or 5.0, whatever you want to call it, new DDR storage cards, Nicks, accelerators, all of those, all of those things. How do you keep that straight when those aren't things that you actually build? >>Well, excellent question, Dave. And you know, as we are developing the next platform, obviously the, the ongoing relationship is there with Dell, but we start way before launch, right? Sometimes it's multiple years before launch. So we are not just focusing on the super high core counts at the CPU level and the platform configurations, whether it's single socket or dual socket, we are looking at it from the memory subsystem from the IO subsystem, P c i lanes for storage is a big deal, for example, in this generation. So it's really a holistic approach. And look, core counts are, you know, more important at the higher end for some customers h HPC space, some of the AI applications. But on the lower end you have database applications or some other is s v applications that care a lot about those. So it's, I guess different things matter to different folks across verticals. >>So we partnered with Dell very early in the cycle, and it's really a joint co-engineering. Shamus talked about the focus on AI with TP C X xci, I, so we set five world records in that space just on that one benchmark with AD and Dell. So fantastic kick kick off to that across a multitude of scale factors. But PPP c Xci is not just the only thing we are focusing on. We are also collaborating with Dell and des e i on some of the transformer based natural language processing models that we worked on, for example. So it's not just a steep CPU story, it's CPU platform, es subsystem software and the whole thing delivering goodness across the board to solve end user problems in AI and and other verticals. >>Yeah, the two of you are at the tip of the spear from a performance perspective. So I know it's easy to get excited about world records and, and they're, they're fantastic. I know Shamus, you know, that, you know, end user customers might, might immediately have the reaction, well, I don't need a Ferrari in my data center, or, you know, what I need is to be able to do more with less. Well, aren't we delivering that also? And you know, you imagine you milland you mentioned natural, natural language processing. Shamus, are you thinking in 2023 that a lot more enterprises are gonna be able to afford to do things like that? I mean, what are you hearing from customers on this front? >>I mean, while the adoption of the top bin CPU stack is, is definitely the exception, not the rule today we are seeing marked performance, even when we look at the mid bin CPU offerings from from a m d, those are, you know, the most common sold SKUs. And when we look at customers implementations, really what we're seeing is the fact that they're trying to make the most, not just of dollar spend, but also the whole subsystem that Melin was talking about. You know, the fact that balanced memory configs can give you marked performance improvements, not just at the CPU level, but as actually all the way through to the, to the application performance. So it's, it's trying to find the correct balance between the application needs, your budget, power draw and infrastructure within the, the data center, right? Because not only could you, you could be purchasing and, and look to deploy the most powerful systems, but if you don't have an infrastructure that's, that's got the right power, right, that's a large challenge that's happening right now and the right cooling to deal with the thermal differences of the systems, might you wanna ensure that, that you can accommodate those for not just today but in the future, right? >>So it's, it's planning that balance. >>If I may just add onto that, right? So when we launched, not just the fourth generation, but any generation in the past, there's a natural tendency to zero in on the top bin and say, wow, we've got so many cores. But as Shamus correctly said, it's not just that one core count opn, it's, it's the whole stack. And we believe with our four gen CPU processor stack, we've simplified things so much. We don't have, you know, dozens and dozens of offerings. We have a fairly simple skew stack, but we also have a very efficient skew stack. So even, even though at the top end we've got 96 scores, the thermal budget that we require is fairly reasonable. And look, with all the energy crisis going around, especially in Europe, this is a big deal. Not only do customers want performance, but they're also super focused on performance per want. And so we believe with this generation, we really delivered not just on raw performance, but also on performance per dollar and performance per one. >>Yeah. And it's not just Europe, I'm, we're, we are here in Palo Alto right now, which is in California where we all know the cost of an individual kilowatt hour of electricity because it's quite, because it's quite high. So, so thermals, power cooling, all of that, all of that goes together and that, and that drives cost. So it's a question of how much can you get done per dollar shame as you made the point that you, you're not, you don't just have a one size fits all solution that it's, that it's fit for function. I, I'm, I'm curious to hear from you from the two of you what your thoughts are from a, from a general AI and ML perspective. We're starting to see right now, if you hang out on any kind of social media, the rise of these experimental AI programs that are being presented to the public, some will write stories for you based on prom, some will create images for you. One of the more popular ones will create sort of a, your superhero alter ego for, I, I can't wait to do it, I just got the app on my phone. So those are all fun and they're trivial, but they sort of get us used to this idea that, wow, these systems can do things. They can think on their own in a certain way. W what do, what do you see the future of that looking like over the next year in terms of enterprises, what they're going to do for it with it >>Melan? Yeah, I can go first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, >>Sure. Yeah. Good. >>So the couple of examples, Dave, that you mentioned are, I, I guess it's a blend of novelty and curiosity. You know, people using AI to write stories or poems or, you know, even carve out little jokes, check grammar and spelling very useful, but still, you know, kind of in the realm of novelty in the mainstream, in the enterprise. Look, in my opinion, AI is not just gonna be a vertical, it's gonna be a horizontal capability. We are seeing AI deployed across the board once the models have been suitably trained for disparate functions ranging from fraud detection or anomaly detection, both in the financial markets in manufacturing to things like image classification or object detection that you talked about in, in the sort of a core AI space itself, right? So we don't think of AI necessarily as a vertical, although we are showcasing it with a specific benchmark for launch, but we really look at AI emerging as a horizontal capability and frankly, companies that don't adopt AI on a massive scale run the risk of being left behind. >>Yeah, absolutely. There's an, an AI as an outcome is really something that companies, I, I think of it in the fact that they're adopting that and the frameworks that you're now seeing as the novelty pieces that Melin was talking about is, is really indicative of the under the covers activity that's been happening within infrastructures and within enterprises for the past, let's say 5, 6, 7 years, right? The fact that you have object detection within manufacturing to be able to, to be able to do defect detection within manufacturing lines. Now that can be done on edge platforms all the way at the device. So you're no longer only having to have things be done, you know, in the data center, you can bring it right out to the edge and have that high performance, you know, inferencing training models. Now, not necessarily training at the edge, but the inferencing models especially, so that way you can, you know, have more and, and better use cases for some of these, these instances things like, you know, smart cities with, with video detection. >>So that way they can see, especially during covid, we saw a lot of hospitals and a lot of customers that were using using image and, and spatial detection within their, their video feeds to be able to determine who and what employees were at risk during covid. So there's a lot of different use cases that have been coming around. I think the novelty aspect of it is really interesting and I, I know my kids, my daughters love that, that portion of it, but really what's been happening has been exciting for quite a, quite a period of time in the enterprise space. We're just now starting to actually see those come to light in more of a, a consumer relevant kind of use case. So the technology that's been developed in the data center around all of these different use cases is now starting to feed in because we do have more powerful compute at our fingertips. We do have the ability to talk more about the framework and infrastructure that's that's right out at the edge. You know, I know Dave in the past you've said things like the data center of, you know, 20 years ago is now in my hand as, as my cell phone. That's right. And, and that's, that's a fact and I'm, it's exciting to think where it's gonna be in the next 10 or 20 years. >>One terabyte baby. Yeah. One terabyte. Yeah. It's mind bo. Exactly. It's mind boggling. Yeah. And it makes me feel old. >>Yeah, >>Me too. And, and that and, and Shamus, that all sounded great. A all I want is a picture of me as a superhero though, so you guys are already way ahead of the curve, you know, with, with, with that on that note, Seamus wrap us up with, with a, with kind of a summary of the, the highlights of what we just went through in terms of the performance you're seeing out of this latest gen architecture from a md. >>Absolutely. So within the TPC xai frameworks that Melin and my team have worked together to do, you know, we're seeing unprecedented price performance. So the fact that you can get 220% uplift gen on gen for some of these benchmarks and, you know, you can have a five to one consolidation means that if you're looking to refresh platforms that are historically legacy, you can get a, a huge amount of benefit, both in reduction in the number of units that you need to deploy and the, the amount of performance that you can get per unit. You know, Melinda had mentioned earlier around CPU performance and performance per wat, specifically on the Tu socket two U platform using the fourth generation a m d Epic, you know, we're seeing a 55% higher C P U performance per wat that is that, you know, when for people who aren't necessarily looking at these statistics, every generation of servers, that that's, that is a huge jump leap forward. >>That combined with 121% higher spec scores, you know, as a benchmark, those are huge. Normally we see, let's say a 40 to 60% performance improvement on the spec benchmarks, we're seeing 121%. So while that's really impressive at the top bin, we're actually seeing, you know, large percentile improvements across the mid bins as well, you know, things in the range of like 70 to 90% performance improvements in those standard bins. So it, it's a, it's a huge performance improvement, a power efficiency, which means customers are able to save energy, space and time based on, on their deployment size. >>Thanks for that Shamus, sadly, gentlemen, our time has expired. With that, I want to thank both of you. It's a very interesting conversation. Thanks for, thanks for being with us, both of you. Thanks for joining us here on the Cube for our coverage of AMD's fourth generation Epic launch. Additional information, including white papers and benchmarks plus editorial coverage can be found on does hardware matter.com.

>>mm we are back and we're continuing the coverage on H P E. Aruba's news today around the D S X six S C X 10-K with Pensando. Now we want to get the perspective of a system Integrator because they're in the front lines, they understand how to put the pieces together where you're happy to bring john Galatea of Dasher technologies dashes and in the end I. T solutions provider, they gotta focus a lot of expertise on infrastructure, jOHn welcome. Good to see you. >>Thank you for having me. Good to be here. >>That's our pleasure. So I wonder if you could give us a little bit more color on Dasher where you focus what your core companies competencies are, what industries you focus on etcetera. >>Yeah, absolutely. So a dasher, we assess architect implement and manage I. T. Solutions that digitally transform businesses. Our practice areas include cybersecurity, networking, cloud data center and we also offer pro professional services around those practice areas. We partner with all the major tech companies in the space. Some of the examples are HP, Cisco, Aruba Palo Alto eight Ws and many others that fill out the, you know that practice area. >>Well that's great. So you have a very wide observation space, that's why we like talking to SA as you have an independent mindset and you can kind of tell it like it is. But so what are you seeing with customers? It's exactly, we hear a lot about digital transformation, you mentioned security, you're obviously doing cloud that's it's almost like john these pieces are all coming together to power Digital and digital transformation and we were forced into it over the past 18 months. And now people are stepping back saying hey okay we have all these resources, how do we put them together and really transform our business? What do you see? >>Yeah, seeing similar things. So you know, our customers are telling us that they're looking for more speed, more agility, um you know, limited complexity because they're trying to do more every single day with less staffing and a sophistication of integrating functionality that breaks down I. T. Silos. Um there also evaluating security span versus effectiveness And they're moving towards zero trust. >>Yeah. So I want to, I'm gonna come back and ask you about that. So I've written a lot about this is that you look at how much we spend versus as you say the effectiveness and there's sort of an imbalance there, it's like we can't spend enough, it budgets they're not infinite. And even though security is top of top priority for ceos, they've got other things that they have to fund and then zero trust, you know, before the pandemic john that was a buzzword and now it's become a mandate. Any thoughts on that >>in terms of zero Trust? Absolutely yeah it is a mandate, we've seen more and more of our customers moving toward in this direction and defending themselves against cyber threats and yeah absolutely. It accelerated during the pandemic and is continuing to accelerate today. >>Right? And I think there's some things that were reported now going to be permanent with regard to obviously hybrid and the like, cloud security and so forth. So, okay, let's get into some of the news here. What's the big trend, john can you explain the relevance of the H P E, Aruba and Pensando news? >>Yeah, I mean when I first heard of it, you know, I I looked at it as a whole new category because it's a category that's going to deliver cloud scale distributed services closer to where applications are. It's going to simplify. One of the things we mentioned earlier was limiting complexity. So it simplifies the network um, by putting security provisions and operations in a unified management platform and it helps improve your security posture around moving towards zero trust and limits the appliance and vendor sprawl that you might ordinarily have in a in a existing network today. >>Okay, so that's kind of the business cases, you're consolidating a lot of piece parts and that's, you know, from a system integrator standpoint. You know, it's funny people often say, well, isn't that bad for the s I'm like, no, they don't want to be in the business of plumbing, they want to be in the business of, you know, more strategy if they if they just end up bolting stuff together, they're going to go out of business, They need to extend their value. So as a strategic partner, you got an early preview of this launch? The D S S D S S C X 10,000, what was your initial impression reaction you called it? A new category? What do you mean by that? >>Well, it's a new category of of of a data center switch in the digital infrastructure because it includes or incorporates security. Um And more specifically it includes security around east west traffic, which is it doesn't eliminate your perimeter firewall but it actually incorporates more functionality which leads to better simplicity and easier use of management of a platform. So for us, I'm really excited to go position and talk to our clients about this. >>Yes. So we're seeing the flattening of that network, that's even it's obviously been accelerated by the pandemic, everybody talks about that. But if you think about the traditional headquarter hierarchical network and now all of a sudden everybody's working remotely using more cloud. Using more distributed infrastructure that flattens the network. That creates security challenges because you can't just build a perimeter and say, okay, we're safe. You now have to go to where the adversary is and that's everywhere. So what's your sense as to how customers are going to react to this new category of switch? >>I think really my sense is that I've got a really positive outlook on this product. I mean hardware, firewalls are costly and deploying software agents can be very disruptive and when you're integrating it into the switch layer. So um I think the C X 10,000 provides a great alternative to an embedded accelerated services embedded in accelerate service into the D C fabric. Um, it's great for brownfield migration, um, rack pod and you know, and the standards based leaf, you know, L two, L three um, and it doesn't necessarily replace, as I mentioned earlier the perimeter security, but um, it can cap and grow with DSS and east west firewall traffic. >>Yeah. And I think we've seen when we talked to see so, so like you said, it does, it doesn't replace the traditional perimeter security but you're going to see a shift and spending priorities obviously to a comedy because as I said earlier, there's not infinite budget but john give us the big takeaway, Bring us home. What what, what do you want to leave our audience with? >>Yeah, I think, you know, the number one takeaway is that it's a massive opportunity to reduce complexity, enhanced security and lower costs in the data center by eliminating dedicated devices and embedding services through software capability in the network closer to where workloads are are moving. So that's the big takeaway for me and for, I think for our clients, um, you know, other things are, you know, you're the data center perimeter is no longer confined and open an on prem location but extends out, right. We're seeing customers extend out to the cloud and across uh, you know, disparate locations, co locations. So The traditional architecture isn't going to be well suited for this, and I think the CX- 10,000 and its feature set are going to be really great for addressing the changing market. >>Yeah, that's, that's all. I mean, again, we're seeing the democratization of everything and and networking is, is no exception. The notion of simplify simplification, john really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you for having me. >>You're welcome. Okay, keep it right. There were unpacking the changing trends in networking generally, and specifically switch networking with HP, Aruba and Pensando and the cube. Keep it right there.

>>I'm john free with the Q we are here. It's exciting news around the next evolution switching, Sony jean Donny, co founder and chief business officer Pensando and David Hughes chief product and technology officer Aruba HP. Welcome back. We just heard from Antonio neary and john Chambers about the HPV Ruba partnership with Pensando and the new switching platform. Tell me more about the exciting news you're announcing? >>Yeah, I'm really excited today to be introducing the CX 10,000 distributed services switch. It's a brand new class of switch way bringing together the best of Aruba switching technology adding to R C X portfolio combining with Pence Sandoz technology that technology embedded in the platform. The problem we're solving is that in a traditional data center, all of those services like fire walling and low balancing provided by centralized appliances. And while that might be okay for north south traffic traffic that's going in and out of the data center. It's not scalable and it's not cost effective to apply to every service in every port to every flow traversing their data center As we all know with microservices more and more of the traffickers east west over 70% today and growing and so what we're doing here with the C X 10,000 is giving enterprises away to take the smart nick technology that's been proven out by hyper scholars and introduce it into their data centers in a very cost effective and easy to deploy way we're embedding that capability in the top of rack switch so that we can apply Fireable services, low balancing services to every port To every flow, delivering 100 times a scale in terms of a CLS 10 times of performance, in terms of encryption at a third of the cost of those traditional network architectures. So it's a super exciting time, >>love the speed, love the energy there. But I gotta ask what makes this a new category of switch. >>Well if you take a look at the journey we have been on as we have evolved our data centers and the applications have evolved for our customers. Uh and the world is now a bold new world of multi cloud. Uh the architecture is in the data center which are leaves spine architectures have become the new norm. Software defined, networking is pervasively deployed by our customers but as this journey began five or seven or even about 10 years ago uh and has culminated into a much more mature set of building blocks. We have taken the problem from one space of automating networks in the data center to then introducing lots and lots of expensive appliances to bring about security for example, or the state full services, whether it's load balancing or whether it's encryption and visibility and telemetry types of services. Now the customers had to try, you know, trombone all the traffic in and out of these appliances driving up the cost uh and the complexity and when time comes to troubleshoot these environments, it's extremely complex because you're trying to rationalize fabrics coming from one place appliances coming from four or five different vendors, maintaining all the software elements that need to be kept track off. Uh and as more and more customers want to aspire towards zero trust security model. Uh we need to start to embrace a lot of the principles that have been implemented by the hyper scholars and the cloud vendors, which is doing away with the appliances doing away with agent technology on servers, but instead to bring that technology for east west uh into play as well as to ensure that if there are bad actors that are landing inside of the data centers that they do not have the ability to, you know, create attack surfaces with complete lateral movement. Today, that is possible. Uh if you look at 70% of all the attacks that have been happening here in the past few years, it's as a result of having a attack surface which is pretty large in the data centers. And that gets further complicated when you move towards a multi cloud environment where the perimeter of the data center is now moving into the edge. Whether that edges, whether fleet resides for our customers or whether that edge happens to be a co location edge where you're building your own rampant off ramps. So I think the compelling event essentially is driven by the whole notion of distribution of services and having them available from a security and from a services point of view and these are state full services as close to the workload as you possibly can get them. >>So you guys really hit on some key points, their cloud, native microservices East west, north south, um no perimeter edge. These are topics that we would talk about kind of individually over the years, it's happening now all at the same time, this is causing a lot of complexities and then the security challenges you just laid out are everywhere. This brings up a big conversation around solving this. How does this new architecture, this solution solve the complexity and the security challenges in the data center. >>If you look at the use cases that our customers are talking about. The first, the initial use case really is to bring about security and state full security for east west traffic right into the fabric of their data centers. So having the ability to deliver that while eliminating the complex appliances only to do the job which they do very well, which is not South protection of services. Uh that also allows us the ability then to start to deliver visibility and telemetry at the same time that we're delivering state full security firewall and micro segmentation services because what I cannot see, I cannot secure. Uh so those two elements are initial use cases out of the box for our customers as we deliver this platform to them and then as more and more use cases that are becoming evident to us through customer interactions come into play. For example, the co location edge that I would like. David to walk you through a bit more in terms of how we help solve for that use case. >>So for the cooler use case, I think we're moving from a world where people talk about data centers to now talking about centers of data and those centers of data. Yes, they can be in a core private data center, they could be in the cloud but more and more they're going to be distributed around the edge in co location environments. And what we need to be able to do is extend those services that were provided in the data center to be provided in those Kahlo's at the edge And again we want to do that without having to deploy a whole rack of appliances that may be cost more than a computer itself and so with the CX- 10,000 we can have that as a top of rack switch for that polo. And from that switch deploy all of the encryption and firewall ng services that that polo requires. And what's important is that we're doing it with the same policy framework under the same management system across the whole enterprise in the data center as well as in these co location environments and out into the cloud. >>So you guys mentioned visibility and a quick follow up on this question because you mentioned visibility can't see it, you can't protect it. But also there's a lot of workloads that people are trying to automate. These are two factors. Can you guys just double down on that? I want to just get that out there because I think this becomes a big thing. >>I think policy having the ability to have an intent based policy that is a foundational technology building block that we are brought together is a very important element. And then when you map it back to tools that Aruba is extending support for including this platform, become very valuable. So David, why don't you walk us >>through? You know, I think one of the advantages that we bring is that this is an extension of the Aruba C X switching portfolio. So yeah, it's a cloud native microservices, very modern switch architecture and we have a comprehensive management platform, the Aruba fabric controller. And so what we are doing is making sure that everything fits together nicely, that we're delivering a complete solution to our customers. But one important thing to mention here is that we are thinking about how customers can do this step by step. So no, we're not requiring them to rebuild their entire data center, They can do this one rack at a time. We can work with their existing spine and deploy one leaf at a time in a very measured way. And so we think it's a great way for enterprises to be able to consume this modern distributed platform. >>That's a great segment. The next question. I mean I totally see this as you guys are talking about the cloud native trend, driving a cloud operational model to every edge. The data center is just another edge. It's a center of data. Love that. I love that line. So I have to kind of ask the operational side of the question, how would an enterprise customers manage all this take us through the nuts and bolts of deploying and managing of his gum? A customer >>That's a very good question. If you take a look at the customer's deployment models and let's let's take the example of they want to now bring in this technology and build a part or highly secure part with it for east west and to make sure that they're protecting 100% of that east west traffic. I think that leveraging all the building blocks that we have innovated between us and Aruba. We want to make sure that the ecosystem that the customer has built, they want whether they have built it with companies like Splunk and service now or Guardianco, they want integration points will be made available to them. If you take a look at, take a step back and say for these environments as you aspire to go toward zero trade security. The issues of inserting security appliances into network flows and having the ability to map it to the knowledge of applications and their dependencies for policy becomes an important function to tackle. So once you accept that, Okay, I have state full security functions built into this top of rack device available for my applications and all workloads, whether they're container workloads, bare metal workload, virtualized workloads uh and I have complete visibility into those workloads without compromising on connectivity and I can control through enforcement of policy where I need it because now security is part of the fabric, it's not a bolt on. Then comes the job of integration with an ecosystem. So whether you're looking at seem and sold companies where we are delivering in close collaboration with Splunk, A Pensando app for Splunk there's also going to be the availability of an elastic module, A plug in module. Uh then turn attention to what's more automation and devops and civil playbooks for the C X 10-K will be made available day one so that where you do not have the ability to deploy the A. F. C. You can use your existing answerable toolkit and they're making those playbooks available to our customers. Uh They want integration with application discovery mapping companies like Guardianco, allowing them to discover who's talking to whom and push and enforce that policy through the C X 10-K will allow for more automated deployments of those policies and finally, compliance integration with vendors like too thin for continuous security compliance monitoring becomes extremely important as the screen depicts a lot of lot of visualization capabilities with companies like Elk which are in beta today and answerable and Splunk and Elk will all be targeted at first customer shipment. So again, telemetry visibility with the integration of the ecosystem. Uh, it becomes a very powerful combination for the customers as they look to operationalize this for day to day three and they, you know, day one, day two, day three automation. >>That's awesome. David, I'd like to let you weigh in on this whole question of operations because you're hitting all the marks here that are relevant cloud, native microservices, apps, explosion and data volume and velocity, hyper scale operational cloud operations, performance, price point security all in this one solution. This is big. Um, it's not like you mentioned earlier, it's not a rip and replace but you can roll it out how how do you see a customer best operational izing this new, >>You know, I think the answer is a little bit different for each customer but you are very careful at the beginning, we introduced this. It's an evolution of switching. It's not a revolution where we have to replace everything and I think that's really exciting is that it builds on the foundational architecture of leaf and spine. And what we're able to do is let that customer introduced these new capabilities one leaf at a time. So maybe when they're upgrading from 10 gigs to 25 gigs, it's a great time for them to introduce this capability into their data center um and then depending on their application, you know, it may be, as Sony said that they've got one particular application, a crown jewel application and so they want to build out that in one rack and provide, you know, very, very robust East west as well as north south um security around that application, but there's so many different ways that customers can deploy this technology and what's really exciting is now is we're beginning to work with our customers, learning about these new use cases and then feeding that back into our roadmap and we all >>know, as you get down lower in the network layer, security is distributed architecture. So everything is paramount like security, super relevant, great conversation, I gotta ask what's next with this technology. Yeah, >>well, you know the teams, the two engineering teams are working together and this is step one on, on a really exciting new path, I don't know, Sony, what would you say? >>I think there's a lot more to come here. This is just a starting point. We have an incredibly strong partnership and go to market partnership here with Uber team with this platform. It is just the beginning uh and it will lead our customers onto the multi cloud journey. Uh and last but not least, I would like to say that you know, in closing uh that are seldom opportunities where you look at disrupting the way things are happening while fitting into customers existing models. So this is, as I said with everything being software defined, you will continue to see as delivering at great velocity more and more software defined services, whether it's encryption, Lord balancing and other state full services over time. Making this technology easier to deploy by fitting into the existing ecosystem and continuing to provide them with the 100 extra scale, 10 X. The performance as well as the ability to do it at a third of the same, you know, at the third of the cost of what they would need to if they had to build this uh today with disparate devices, >>exciting news in the industry. You guys are the pros you've seen all the waves of innovation over the years. I guess my final final question would be, how would you summarize this point in time right now? This is pretty um exciting all this is all happening At the same time, customers are having opportunity to innovate the pandemic has shown a lot of scale and and the need for stability and security. This is a special moment. How would you guys weigh in on that? >>Yeah, I think about it every decade, there's a change in how data centers a belt. And so this is the change that's happening this decade. Moving to a distributed services, switch. The other big mega trend that I see is this move, as I said from data centers to stand as a data and the opportunity for customers to use this technology as they move out to the edge. Have distributed compute and tell us, what do you think Sony? >>I think I couldn't agree more. I think there are so many various technology transitions occurring now. The cloud being the biggest one. Uh the explosion of data and uh, you know, the customers making decisions of having a distributed model And if indeed two thirds, if not 75% of all data will be processed at the edge over the next few years. This architecture is prime for the enterprise to go leverage their best practices of today while they can gradually move that architecture is for the future, which is a multi cloud future >>centers of data, large scale cloud operations automation. The speed of innovation has never seen this before. Uh It's exciting time. Sunny, thank you for coming on. And David, thanks for chatting about this exciting new announcement. Thank you very much. >>Thank you. Thank you. >>This is the power of and hp. Ruba and Pensando partnership. I'm john forward the cube. Thanks for watching. Mhm

>>Hello and welcome to the power of and where H P E Aruba and Pensando are changing the game the way customers scale at the cloud and what's next in the evolution in switching everyone. I'm john ferrier with the Cuban. I'm here with Shane Corbyn, Director of Technical Product management. Pensando Williams show vice president Product management, Aruba HP Gentlemen, thank you for coming on and doing a deep dive and and going into the big news. So the first question I want to ask you guys is um, what do you guys see from a market customer perspective that kicked this project off? Amazing results over the past year or so. Where did it all come from? >>It's a great question, John So when we were doing our homework, there were actually three very clear customer challenges. First, security threats were largely spawned with from within the perimeter. In fact, four star highlights that 80% of threats originate within the internal network. Secondly, workloads are largely distributed, creating a ton of east west traffic and then lastly, network services such as firewalls load balancers. VPN aggregators are expensive. They're centralized and then ultimately result in service changing complexity. So everyone, >>so go ahead. Change. >>Yeah. Additionally, when we spoke to our customers after launching initially the distributed services platform, these compliance challenges clearly became apparent to us and while they saw the architectural value of adopting what the largest public cloud providers have done by putting a smart making each compute note to provide these state full services. Enterprise customers were still were struggling with the need to upgrade fleets and Brownfield servers and the associated per node cost of adding a spark nick to every compute node. Typically the traffic volumes for on a personal basis within an enterprise data center are significantly lower than cloud. Thus we saw an opportunity here to in conjunction with Aruba developed a new category of switching product um, to share the crossing capabilities of our unique intellectual property around our DPU across a rack of servers that Net Net delivers the same set of services through a new category of platform, enabling a distributed services architecture and ultimately addressing the compliance and uh, TCO generating huge TCO and ri for customers. >>You know, one of the things that we've been reporting on with you guys as well as the cloud scale, this is the volume of data and just the performance and scale I think the timing of the, of this partnership and the product development is right on point. You got the edge right around the corner more, more distributed nature of cloud operations, huge, huge change in the marketplace. So great timing on the origination story there. Great stuff. Tell me more about the platform itself. The details what's under the hood, the hardware. Os, what are the specs? >>Yeah, so we started with a very familiar premise, Ruba customers are already leveraging C X with an edge to cloud, common operating model and deploying Leaf and spy networks. Plus we're excited to introduce the industry's first distributed services switch where the first configuration has 48 25 gig ports with 100 gig uplinks running Aruba C X cloud native operating system. Pensando A six and software inside enabling layer four through seven staple services you want to elaborate on. >>Let me elaborate on that a little further. Um, you know, as we spoke, existing platforms and how customers were seeking to address these challenges were inherently limited by the diocese and that thus limited their scale and performance and ability in traditional switching platforms to deliver truly stable functions in in a switching platform. This was, you know, architecturally from the ground up. When we developed our DPU 1st and 2nd generation, we delivered it or we we we built it with staples services in in mind from the Gecko. We we leverage to clean state designed with RP four program with GPU, we evolved to our seven nanometer based DPU right now, which is essentially enabling software and silicon and this has generated a new level of performance scale flexibility and capability in terms of services this serves as the foundation for or 200 gig card where we're taking the largest cloud providers into production for. And the DPU itself is designed inherently to process state track state connections and state will flow is a very, very large scale without impacting performance. And in fact, the two of these deep you component service, their services foundation of the C X 10-K And this is how we enable states of functions in a switching platform. Functions like stable network network fire walling, stable segmentation, enhance programmable telemetry. Which we believe will bring a whole lot of value to our customers. And this is a, a platform that's inherently programmable from the ground up. We can we can build and and leverages platform to build new use cases around encryption, enabling state for load balancing, stable nash to name a few. But the key message here is this is this is a platform with the next generation of architecture is in mind is programmed but at all levels of the stack and that's what makes it fundamentally different than anything else. >>I want to just double click on that if you don't mind before we get to the competitive question because I think you brought up the state thing, I think this is worth calling out if you guys don't mind commenting more on this state issue because this is big cloud. Native developers right now want speed, they're shifting left at the Ci cd pipeline with program ability. So going down and having the program ability and having state is a really big deal. Can you guys just expand on that a little bit more and why it's important and how hard it really is to pull off. >>I I can start I guess. Well um it's very hard to pull off because of the sheer amount of connections you need to track when you're developing something like a state, full firewall or state from load balancer. A key component of that is managing the connections at very, very large scale and understanding what's happening with those connections at scale without impacting application performance. And this is fundamentally different. A traditional switching platform regardless of how it's deployed today in a six don't typically process and manage state like this. Memory resources within the shape aren't sufficient. Um the policy scale that you can implement on a platform aren't sufficient to address and fundamentally enable deployable fire walling or load balancing or other state services. >>That's exactly right. So the other kind of key point here is that if you think about the sophistication of different security threats, it does really require you to be able to look at the entire packet and more so be able to look at the entire flow and be able to log that history so that you can get much better heuristics around different anomalies. Security threats that are emerging today. >>That's a great great point. Thanks for bringing that extra extra point out, I would just add to this, we're reporting this all the time when silicon angle in the cube is that you know, the you know, the the automation wave that's coming with around data, you know, it's the center of data now, not date as soon as we heard earlier on with the presentation data drives automation having that enabled with state is a real big deal. So I think that's really worth calling out now. I got to ask the competition question, how is this different? I mean this is an evolution, I would say it's a revolution you guys are being humble um but how is this different from what customers can deploy today >>architecturally, if you take a look at it? So we've, we've spoken about the technology and fundamentally in the platform, what's unique in the architecture but foundational e when customers deploy stable services, they're typically deployed leveraging traditional big box appliances for east west or workload based agents which seek to implement stable security for each East west architectural, what we're enabling is staples services like fire walling, segmentation can scale with the fabric and are delivered at the optimal point for east west which is through the Leaf for access their of the network and we do this for any type of workload. Being deployed on a virtualized compute node being deployed on a containerized, our worker node being deployed on bare metal agnostic of topology. It can be in the access layer of a three tier design and a data center. It can be in the leaf layer of the excellent VPN based fabric. But the goal is an all centrally managed to a single point of orchestration control which William we'll talk about shortly. The goal of this is to to drive down the TCO of your data center as a whole by allowing you to retire legacy appliances that are deployed in in east west role, not utilized host based agents and thus save a whole lot of money. And we've modeled on the order of 60 to 70% in terms of savings in terms of the traditional data center pod design of 1000 compute nodes which will be publishing and as as we go forward, additional services as we mentioned like encryption, this platform has the capability to terminate up to 800 gigs of line, right encryption, I P sec VPN per platform state will not load balancing and this is all functionality will be adding to this existing platform because it's programmable as we mentioned from the ground up. >>What are some of the use cases lead and one of the top use case. What's the low hanging fruit? And where does this go? Service providers enterprise, what are the types of customers you guys see implementing? >>Yeah, that's what's really exciting about the C X 10,000 we actually see customer interest from all types of different markets, whether it be higher education service providers to financial services, basically all enterprises verticals with private cloud or edge data centers for example, could be a hospital, a big box retailer or Coehlo. Such as an equity. It's so it's really the 6 10,000 that creates a new switching category enabling staple services in that leaf node, right at the workload, unifying network and security automation policy management. Second, the C X 10,000 greatly improved security posture and eliminates the need for hair pinning east west traffic all the way back to the centralized plants. Lastly, a Shane highlighted there's a 70% Tco savings by eliminating that appliance brawl and ultimately collapsing the network security operations. >>I love the category creation vibe here. Love it. And obviously the technical and the cloud line is great. But how do the customers manage all this? Okay. You got a new category. I just put the box in, throw away some other one. I mean how does this all get down? How does the customers manage all this? >>Yeah. So we're looking to build on top of the ribbon fabric composer. It's another familiar sight for our customers which already provides for compute storage and network automation with a broad ecosystem integrations such as being where the sphere be center as with Nutanix prison And so aligned with the c. x. 10,000 at G. A. now the aruba fabric composer unifies security and policy orchestration and management with the ability to find firewall policies efficiently and provide that telemetry to collectors such a slump. >>So the customer environments right now involve a lot of multi vendor and new frameworks cloud native. How does this fit into the customer's existing environment? The ecosystem. How do they get that get going here? >>Yeah, great question. Um our customers can get going is we we built a flexible platform that can be deployed in either Greenfield or brownfield. Obviously it's a best of breed architecture for distributed services were building in conjunction with the ruble but if customers want to gradually integrate this into their existing environments and they're using other vendors, spines or course this can be inserted seamlessly as a leaf or an access access to your switch to deliver the exact same set of services within that architecture. So it plugs seamlessly in because it supports all the standard control playing protocols, VX, Lenny, VPN and traditional attitude three tier designs easily. Now for any enterprise solution deployment, it's critical that you build a holistic ecosystem around it. It's clear that this will get customer deployments and the ecosystem being diverse and rich is very, very important and as part of our integrations with the controller, we're building a broad suite of integrations across threat detection application dependency mapping, Semen sore develops infrastructure as code tools like ants, Poland to answer the entire form. Um, it's clear if you look at these categories of integrations, you know XDR or threat detection requires full telemetry from within the data center. It's been hard to accomplish to date because you typically need agents on, on your compute nodes to give you the visibility into what's going on or firewalls for east west flaws. Now our platform can natively provide full visibility in dolphins, East west in the data center and this can become the source of telemetry truth that these Ml XT or engines required to work. The other aspects of ecosystem are around application dependency mapping the single core challenge with deploying segmentation. East West is understanding the rules to put in place right first, is how do you insert the service uh service device in such a way that it won't add more complexity. We don't add any complexity because we're in line natively. How do we understand that allow you to build the rules are necessary to do segmentation. We integrate with tools like guard corps, we provide our flow logs a source of data and they can provide rural recommendations and policy recommendations for customers around. We're building integrations around steve and soar with tools like Splunk and elastic elastic search that will allow net hops and sec ops teams to visualize, train and manage the services delivered by the C X 10-K. And the other aspect of ecosystem from a security standpoint is clearly how do I get policy from these traditional appliances and enforce them on this next generation architecture that you've built that can enable state health services. So we're building integrations with tools like toughen analgesic third party sources of policy that we can ingest and enforcing the infrastructure allowing you to gradually migrate to this new architecture over time >>it's really a cloud native switch, you solve people's problems pain points but yet positioned for growth. I mean it sounds that's my takeaway. But I gotta ask you guys both what's the takeaway for the customers because it's not that simple for that. We have a complicated >>Environment. I think, I think it's really simple every 10 years or so. We see major evolutions in the data center in the switching environment. We do believe we've created a new category with the distributed services, distributed services, switch, delivering cloud scale distribute services where the local where the workloads were side greatly simplifying network security provisions and operations with the Yoruba fabric composer while improving security posture and the TCO. But that's not all folks. It's a journey. Right. >>Yeah, it's absolutely a journey. And this is the first step in in a long journey with a great partner like Aruba, there's other platforms, 100 or four gig hardware platforms we're looking at and then there's additional services that we can enable over time allowing customers to drive even more Tco value out of the platform and the architectural services like encryption for securing the cloud on ramp services like state for load balancing to deploy east west in the data center and you know, holistically that's that's the goal, deliver value for customers and we believe we have an architecture and a platform and this is the first step in a long journey. It's >>a great way. I just ask one final final question for both of you. As product leaders, you've got to be excited having a category creation product here in this market, this big wave. What's what's your thoughts? >>Yeah, exactly. Right. It doesn't happen that often. And so we're all in, it's it's exciting to be able to work with a great team like Sandu and chain here. And so we're really excited about this launch. >>Yeah, it's awesome. The team is great. It's a great partnership between and santo and Aruba and you know, we we look forward to delivering value for john customers. >>Thank you both for sharing under the hood and more details on the product. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Okay, >>the next evolution of switching, I'm john furrier here with the power of An HP, Aruba and Pensando, changing the game the way customers scale up in the cloud and networking. Thanks for watching. Mhm.

>>mhm >>Hello and welcome to this cube conversation here in Palo alto California, I'm john for a year host of the cube, we're here with a great guest Jt gear, Ceo and founder and ops Hot Startup. Jt Welcome to the cube conversation. >>Hey, that sound, thanks for having me. It sounds like we know each other, we used to run into each other at meat out. So yeah, >>it's fun to talk to you because I know you're, you know, scratching the devops it from the beginning before devops was devops before infrastructure of code was infrastructure as code. All that's played out. So it's really a great ride. I know you had a good time doing it a lot of action though. If you look at devops it's kind of like this new, I won't say devops two point because it kind of cliche but you're starting to see the mature ization of companies besides the early adopters and the people who are hardcore adopting and they realize this is amazing and then they? Re platform in the cloud and they go great, let's do more and next thing, you know, they have an operations issue and they got a really kind of stabilize and then also not break anything. So this is kind of the wheelhouse of what you guys are doing in ops reminds me of no ops, no operations, you know, we don't want to have a lot of extra stuff. This is a big thing. Take a but take them in to explain the company, you're what you guys stand for and what you're all about. >>Yeah, so you know, our main focus is more on the operation side, so, you know the reason why you move to cloud or the reason why you have devops practices, you want to go fast. Um but you know when you're building cloud infrastructure, you have to make trade offs right? You have to maybe some environment, maybe you have to optimize for S L A. And maybe another workload, you have to optimize for um you know, maybe costs, right? So what we're on a mission to do is to make sure that companies are able to make the right trade offs, right? We help companies to make sure all their workload, every single resource in the cloud is aligned with the business needs, you know, so we do a lot of cool things by like, you know, bringing accountability mapping and we're close to different genes. But yeah, the end goal is, can we make sure that every single resource on data Bs is aligned with the business needs >>and they're also adding stuff. Every reinvent zillion more services get announced. So a lot, a lot of stuff going on, I gotta ask you while I got you here, what is the definition of cloud apps these days, from your standpoint and why is it important? A lot of folks are looking at this and they want to have stable operations. They love the cloud really can't deny the cloud value at all. But cloud ops has become a big topic. What is cloud apps and why is it important. >>Right? I mean, first of all, Like you just mentioned, right? Like Amazon keeps on launching more services. It's over 200. So the environment is very complex, Right? And then mm complexity within the services is uh pretty uh you really need to be the main expert for example, know everything about do So, you know, our question to us is, let's say if you find a critical issue, uh let's say you want to uh you know, enable multi AZ on your RDS for example. Uh and it's critical because you know, you're running a uh high availability workloads on AWS. How do you follow up on that right to us. Operation is how do you build a cloud backlog? How do you prioritize, how do you come together as a team to actually remediate those issues? No one is tackling that job, everyone's surfaces like, hey, here's 1000 things that are wrong with your environment. No one is focused on like how do you go from these issues to prioritization to backlog to actually coming together as a team. You know, I've been fixing some of those issues. That's that's what operation means is >>I know it's totally hard because sometimes I don't even know what's going on. I gotta ask you why, why is it harder now? Why are people, I mean I get the impression that people like looking the other way? I hope it goes the problem kind of goes away. What are the challenges? What's the big blocker from getting at the root cause or trying to solve these problems? What's the big thing that's holding people back? >>Yeah, I mean, when I first got into, you know, I t you know, I was working in data center and every time we needed a server, you know, we have to ask for approvals, right? And you finally got a server, but nowadays anyone could provision resources. And normally you have different people within the team's provisioning resources and you can have hundreds of different teams who are provisioning resources. So the complexity uh and the speed that we are, you know, provisioning resources across multiple people, it just continues to go higher and higher. So that's why uh you know, on the surface it might look that hey, this, you know, maybe the biggest instance uh is, you know, aligned with the business needs, you know, looking at the changes, it's hard to know, are those aligned with the business? They're not? So that's that's that's where the complexity and player. >>So the question I get a lot from people we talk about devops and cloud, cloud apps or cloud management or whatever kind of buzz words out there, it kind of comes down to cloud apps and cloud management seems to be the category, people focus on. How is cloud ops different then? Say the traditional cloud management and what impact does it have for customers and why should they care and what do they need an option. >>Right. So one of the things we do uh and and we do think that cloud operation is sort of an evolution from cloud management. We make sure that Every single resource 1st, first of all blondes and workload. So and you know, workload could be a group of microservices uh and then uh you know every single workload has owners like define owners who are responsible for making sure they managed budget that they're responsible for security that normally doesn't exist. Right? Cloud is this black box, you know where multiple people are provisioning resources, you know, everyone tries to sort of build sort of a structure to kind of see like what are these resources for? What are these resources for as part of onboarding to end up? So what we do, we actually, you know, analyze all your metadata. We create like 56 workloads and then we say here is a bucket where there's there, this is totally unassigned, right? And then we actually walked them through assigning different roles and also we walk them through to kinda looking under this unallocated resources and assign resources for those as well. So once you're done, every single resource has clear definition, right? Is this a compliant? Uh you know hip hop workload, what are the run books, what is this for? John I don't know if he heard that before. Sometimes there are workloads running and how people don't know, I don't even know who is the owner, right? So after you're done with an office and after you're managing and uh, you know, uh, managing your workload on and off, you have full visibility and clear understanding of what are the. It's funny, it's >>funny you mentioned the workloads being kind of either not knowing the owners, but also we see people um, with the workloads sometimes it's like throwing a switch and leaving the hose on the water on. And next thing you know, they get the bill. They're like, oh my God, what happened? Why did I leave? What, what is this? So there's a lot of things that you could miss. This brings up the point you just said and what you said earlier aligning resources across the cloud uh and and having accountability. And then you, you mentioned at the top of this interview that aligning with the business needs. I find that fastest. I would like to take him in to explain because it sounds really hard. I get how you can align the resources and do some things, identify what's going on, accountability kind of map that that's, that's good tech. How does that, how do you get that to the alignment on the business side. >>Yeah. I mean we start by, first of all, like I said, you know, we use machine learning to play these workloads? And then we asked basic questions about the workload. You know, what is this workload for? Uh Do you need to meet with any kind of compliance is for this workload? Uh What is your S. O. A. For this workload? You know, depending on that. We we make recommendations. Uh So we kind of ask those questions and we also walk them through where they create roles. Like we asked who was responsible for creating budgets or managing security for this workload and guess what also the you know the bucket where resources are allocated for. We ask for you know, owners for that as well like in this bucket who's the owner for who's going to monitor the budget and things like that. So you know we asked, you know, we start by just asking the question, having teams complete that sort of information and also you know, why do you a little bit more information on how this aligns with the business needs? You know, >>talk about the complexity side of it. I love that conversation around the number of services. You said 200 services depending how you count what you call services in the thousands of so many different things uh knobs to turn on amazon uh web services. So why are people um focused on the complexity and the partnering side? Because you know, it's the clouds at E. P. I. Based system. So you're dealing with a lot of different diverse resources. So you have complexity and diversity. Can you talk me through how that works? Because that's that seems to be a tough beast to tame the difference between the complexity of services and also working with other people. >>Yeah for sure like this this normal to have um you know maybe thousands of lambda functions in their application. We're working with a customer where within last month there were nine million containers that launched and got terminated right there, pretty much leveraging, auto scaling and things like that. So these environments are like very complex. You know, there's a lot of moving pieces even, you know, depending on the type of services they're using. So again what we do, you know we when we look at tags and we look at other variables like environments and we look at who's provisioning resources, those resources and we try to group them together and that way there's accountability uh you know if the cost goes up for one workload were able to show that team like your cost is going up uh And also we can show uh unallocated bucket that hey within last week Your cost is you know, $4,000 higher in the unallocated bucket. Where would you like to move this these resources to just like an ongoing game. You >>know, you know jt I was talking with my friend jerry Chen is that Greylock partners is a V. C. Has been on the cube many times a couple of years ago. We're talking about how you can build a business within the cloud, in the shadows of the clouds, what he called it, but I called it more the enabling side and and that's happened now, you're seeing the massive growth. I'm also talking to some C X O C IOS or CSOs and they're like trying to figure out which companies that are evolving and growing to be to buy from, get to get the technology. Uh and they always say to me john I'm looking for game changing kind of impact. I'm looking for the efficiency and you know, enablement, the classic kind of criteria. So how would you guys position yourself to those buyers out there that might want to look at you guys as a solution and ups what game changing aspect of what you do is out there, how would you talk to that that C I O or C. So or buyer um out in the end the enterprise and the thieves ran his piece. What would you say to them? >>Yeah, I think the biggest uh advantage and I think right now it's a necessity, you hear these stories where, you know, people provision resources, they don't even know which project is it for. It's just very hard to govern the cloud environment, but I believe we're the only tool. Mhm where you want to compromise on the speed, right? The whole reason um cloud but they want to innovate faster. No one wants to follow that. Right? But I think what's important. We need to make sure everything is aligned with the business value. Uh, we allow people to do that. You know, we, we, we can both fast at the same time. You can have some sort of guard rails. So there are proper ownership. There's accountability. People are collaborating and people are also rightsizing terminating resources, they're not using. It's like, you know, I think if companies are looking for a tool that's gonna drive better accountability on how people build and collaborate on cloud, I think reply the best solution. >>So people are evolving with the cloud and you mentioned terminating services. That's a huge deal in cloud. Native things are being spun up and turned off all the time. So you need to have good law, You have a good visibility, observe ability is one of the hottest buzzwords out there. We see a zillion companies saying, hey, we're observe ability, which is to me is just monitoring stuff. They can sure you're tracking everything. So when you have all this and you start to operationalize this next gen, next level cloud scale, cost optimization and visibility is huge. Um, what is the, what is the secret sauce uh, for that you guys offer? Because the change management is a big 12 teams are changing too cost team accountability. All this is kind of, it's not just speeds and feeds, there's, it's kind of intersection of both. What's your take on that reaction to that? >>Yeah, I think it's the Delta. Right? So change management, What you're really looking for is not a, like a fire hose, you're looking for. What changed what the root cause who did it, what happened? Right. Because it's totally normal for someone to provision maybe thousands or even millions containers. But how many of those got shut down? What is the delta and uh, you know, if there is a, there is an anomaly, what is the root cause? Right? Uh, how we fix it. So you know the way we've changed managers, change management is a lot different. We really get to the root cause analysis and we really help companies to make, really show what changed and how they can take action to a media. But if there were issues, >>I want to put a little plug in for you guys. I noticed you guys have a really strong net promoter score. You have happy customers also get partners. A lot of enablement there. You kind of got a lot of things going on. Um, explain what you guys are all about. How did you get here? What's the day in the life of a customer that you're serving? Why then why are the scores so high? Um, take us through a use case of someone getting that value. >>Yeah. So I, I come from like a consulting background, john so you know, I was migrating companies to read the Bs when the institute was in beta and then I, you know, founded a consulting company over 100 employees. Really successful interview. S premier partner called in clouds. And so Enos was born there because because you know it was, it was born out a consulting company, there are a lot of other partners who are leveraging the tools to help their customers and it goes back to our point earlier, john like amazon has to wonder services, right? We are noticing customers are open to work with partners and uh you know with different partners that really helped them to make sure they're making the right decisions when they are building on cloud. So a lot of the partners, a lot of the consulting companies are leveraging uh and hopes to deliver value to their customers as far as uh you know how we actually operate. You know, we pay attention to uh you know what, what customers are looking for, what, where are the next sort of challenges uh you know, customers are facing in a cloud environment world like super obsessed, you know, like we're trying to figure out how do we make sure every single resource is aligned with the business value without slowing companies down so that really drives us, we're constantly welcome customers to stay true to the admission >>and that's the ethos of devops moving fast. The old quote Mark Zuckerberg used to have move fast, break stuff and then he revised it to move move fast and make it stable, which is essentially operational thing. Right, so you're starting to see that maturity, I noticed that you guys also have a really cool pricing model, very easy to get in and you have a high end too. So talk us through about how to engage with you guys, how do people get involved? Just click and just jump in there, buying software buying services, take a minute to explain how people can, can work with you. >>Yeah, it's just, it's just signing up on our site, you know, our pricing is tier model, uh you know, once you sign up, if you do need help with, you know, remediating high risk issues we can bring in partners, we have a strong partner ecosystem. Uh we could definitely help you do interviews to the right partners but it's as simple as just signing up and just taking me out. First thing I guess. >>Jt great chatting with you have been there from early days of devops, born in the field, getting, getting close to the customers and you mentioned ec two and beta, they just celebrate their 15th birthday and I remember one of my starts that didn't actually get off the off the blocks, they didn't even have custom domains at that time was still the long remember the long you are else >>everything was ephemeral like when you restart server, everything will go away a cool >>time. And I just remember saying to myself man, every entrepreneur is going to use this service who would ever go out and buy and host the server. So you were there from the beginning and it's been great to see the success. Thanks for coming on the cube >>all That's >>okay. Jt thanks so much as a cube conversation here in Palo alto. I'm john for your host. Thanks for watching. Mhm.

>>from around the globe, it's >>the cube >>With digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM Hello welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube had a great conversation here about cloud data, AI and all things. C X O from KPMG is Vinod Swaminathan who's the strategy head of strategy of Ai data and cloud as well as the C. I. O advisory at KPMG you know thanks for coming on the cube. >>My pleasure jOHn thanks for having me. >>So you guys have an interesting perspective, you sit between the business value being created from technology and the clients trying to put it to work um and KPMG impeccable reputation over the years obviously bringing great business value to clients. You guys do that. Um you're in the middle of the hot stuff cloud data and Ai um Ai is great if you have the data and the architecture do that in cloud scale brings so many new good things to the table. Um how is this playing out right now in your mind because we're here at IBM think where the story is transformed, transformation is the innovation. Innovation does set the table for net new capabilities at scale. This seems to be a common thread here. What's your take on the current situation? >>Well, let me start with the fundamental premise that we're seeing playing out with many of our clients and that is, clients are beginning to connect the different silos within their business to better respond to what their customers are asking for. Um you know, we we tend to work with large enterprises, very well established businesses and we're also fortunate to serve the needs of high growth companies as well. So we're in a very unique position as a trusted advisor to both legacy companies transforming and high growth companies looking to drive the transformation in the industry as well. So there are a few things that we're seeing right the first and foremost is responding quickly and effectively to very rapidly changing customer needs. And I think the pandemic really you know put a spotlight on how fast organizations had to pivot and I have to commend a lot of these organizations and doing a phenomenal job, I would argue, spit band aiding and gluing together a response to what their customers expected. Right? So as I look at post pandemic, we're seeing a lot of clients now looking to take stock of things that they did during the pandemic, how they address customer demand to really smooth them out and streamline as a strategy, how they're going to become more customer driven at KPMG. We call this the connected enterprise where you really work effectively across the front, middle and back office in an enterprise to seamlessly address the client. Right? Anything you do in finance really is driven by what your customers want. It's no longer, hey finance sit in the back office, right. Anything you do in marketing is no longer hey I'm doing it just to address the demand side of the equation, right? It's very integral to connect marketing with fulfillment. Right? So we call this the connected enterprise. So that transformation is only possible if customers and our clients are able to effectively leverage cloud from an architectural perspective. And when I say cloud, what we're seeing, smarter clients of ours start to think about is cloud in its entirety. So it's not just the public cloud, it's the cloud architecture, right? The ability to scale up scale out right scale down, right, irrespective of where all of this sits from an infrastructure perspective. So cloud is very critical for becoming that connected enterprise. Uh The data pieces integral, I think the data business today represents trillions of dollars. I think everybody has bought into the fact that data is the new oil and all of that good stuff that we've heard. Uh but it really is a trillion dollar business and it has some unique challenges. So being connected requires, right? That are that an enterprise become very data driven? I think it's hard to escape ai it's everywhere. To the point where we don't even uh we're not even conscious of ai at work, Right? So I think uh five years ago a I was a novel concept today. It's the expectation of customers who interact with big brands that ai is an integral part of how they are being served. Right, So cloud data ai architecture sort of the ingredients if you will. And then cool technology really starts to bring this connected concept together and post pandemic. We're going to start to see a lot of rationalization uh and big investments and moving forward in this trajectory. >>It's interesting cloud data now you, the way you talk about it makes me think about like just the constant of the old Os I stack right? You have infrastructure and cloud, you have data in the middle layer and then A. I. Is that that wonder area where the upside takes advantage of that data? Um Very cool insight. You know. Thanks for sharing that. The question I have for you put the pandemic I want to get your reaction to some conversations I've had in the industry and they tend to go like this. Um When we come out of the pandemic this is like a C X. O. Talking to Ceo. Or C. I. O. Or C. So when we come out of the pandemic we need a growth strategy, we need to be hidden, we need to be on the upswing, okay, not on the downswing or still trying to figure it out. Um And and that's a cool conversation because there's been to use cases that we've identified companies that had no has had a headwind because of the pandemic, either because of business disruption or the second categories, they've had a tail when they had a business opportunity. So the ones that had a headwind, they would retool, they used the pandemic to retool and the ones that had the tailwind would use the pandemic to either bring net new capabilities or or transform and innovate. So either way that's a successful use case. The ones who didn't do anything aren't going to survive much. We know that, but in those two cases they're not mutually exclusive. That's what the smart money's been doing. The smart teams. What's your advice now that we're in that mode where we're coming around the corner? How do companies get on that uptick? What have you guys advise into clients? What are you hearing and what, what's your reaction to that concept? >>Well, I think every company that is going to be on the survivors list post pandemic actually has digitally transformed, um, you know, even if they don't want to acknowledge it right in a lot of different ways. Um, so I think that's here to stay. Um, what I, and I'll give you a simple example, um, you know, I, I belong to a local club, you know, kitchen shut down, you know, no activities. I was amazed that it took them only four days John four days to actually bring a digital reservation system online through their mobile app. So in the past, the mobile app was simply for me to go look at the directory. But now I can do so many more things. Right? And I was talking to my club CI. All right. I mean, really not a C I. O. But you know, it was uh, it was, it was a staff member who was charged with driving the digital transformation. So there you go >>right to consult you, you know. >>Um, but what he talked to me about was fascinating. And this is what we're going to see, right? So first he said, another was so easy to bring some of those, you know, interactive experience type capabilities online to serve our customer base. It made us think, why the hell didn't we do it before? Alright, so, back to your question, I think post pandemic, we're going to see a lot of companies recognizing that low code, no code, right? Cloud AI capabilities are very much within the reach of the average business user, right? In companies like IBM have done a phenomenal job of demystifying the technology and trying to make it much more accessible for the business user. We're going to see continued momentum, right? And adopting these kinds of simple technologies to transform right business processes, customer interaction, so on and so forth. Right? So we we see that coming out of the pandemic, there's no stopping that. I think the second thing we see is a very firm commitment at the leadership level um that you know, stopping or slowing down these kinds of activities is a non starter at the board level. That's a nonstarter at the management committee level, right? Don't come to me saying we need to slow down things. Come to me saying we need to speed up things, right? But that said, we're seeing rationalization, conversations begin to happen and that starts with the strategy, right, tailwind or headwind, irrespective of which side of the equation you fell right in that, in that dynamic, what we're seeing is clients coming back and saying, all right, we know our strategy needs to be different. Let's make sure that we have a strategy that aligns better with um where our customers want to go, where the industry is headed. And let's acknowledge that there are technological capabilities now, but actually turbocharge the execution of the strategy. Technology is not the strategy, it's still connected enterprise thought, How do I serve my customers whose expectations have dramatically changed coming out of the pandemic? And that's why I gave you the club example. I never want to call anybody to make a reservation anymore. I mean even the local hair salon has a queuing system and a reservation system because you know, that's just the way it is. Right? So there are some simple things that have happened on the customer side of uh, you know, the equation, which is forcing a lot of our clients to start, you know, accelerating their digital investments. Um, you know, rather than decelerating, >>it's interesting. That's great insight. I think just to summarize that, I think you're pointing out is the obvious, hey, it works the indifference of the digital to go the next level and see X. O. S and C I. O. S have had, you know, either politics or blockers or just will it work? And I think with the pandemic necessity is the mother of all inventions. You say, hey, we got to get back on business that the economics and the user experience is more than acceptable. It's actually preferred. I think that club example really highlights that expectation change and I >>think that's an interesting architecture discussion right? And I don't mean that technically I think businesses are starting to think about how are they architected, right. And this is where the connected enterprise concept from KPMG is resonating because now you know, we see our clients no longer thinking about finance, sales, marketing, right? And fulfillment right? That's how the architect of their business. Before now they're realizing that they need to sort of put it on its side. Right, I love the cube analogy, I'm going to borrow it, they're flipping the cube on the side and pulling out a whole new business architecture which by the way is enabled and supported by an underlying technology architecture that's very different. Right? So I think businesses are going to get re architected in technology companies like IBM and Red Hot are going to be right there helping clients go through that re architected along with partners like us, >>the script has been flipped, the cube has been turned and I think this was the revelation. The economics are clear. So I gotta ask you, I mean I've always been I've been joking with IBM the president like it, but I've been saying that, you know, business now is software enabled and the operating systems, distributed computing. As you mentioned, these subsystems are part of this fabric and red hat there and operating systems company. Um, so kind of in a good position with what Marvin's doing. If you think about if you look at squint through and connect the dots, I mean you're looking at an underlying operating system that's open and connected to business, it's not just software apps that run something like an ear piece system, it's an business software model for the entire company completely instrumented. This is what hybrid cloud is. Could you, could you take a few minutes to talk about the relationship that you guys have with IBM on how you guys are working together to bring this hybrid cloud vision to their customers into the market. >>So KPMG and IBM go back about 20 plus years long standing relationship. Um in fact, I kid around with many of my fellow partners here at KPMG that IBM is the only relationship that we did not divest off when we went through our let's flip management consulting off from our accounting business, so on and so forth that everybody went through. Right? So very long standing relationship, you know, we're a trusted partner of IBM but we're very different from a lot of the partners that IBM has were business consultants, right? We don't have, you know, we help clients think through their business first before we get into the technology implementation. So I don't have armies of IBM certified engineers sitting on the bench looking for work to do. It's actually the other way around. Right? So it's been a great marriage when IBM has phenomenal technology in this case, you know, they have been leaders in AI, we've got an AI based relationship now going back five years, um you know, where we consumed Watson proved to ourselves and the world that it can be done very innovatively supporting business transformation. And now we're able to together with IBM effectively have that conversation with clients, right? Because we're client number zero, uh we're big into a hybrid, multi cloud, um you know, we're big red hat customers. Uh you know, we use red hat in our own modernization of several different workloads. So our relationship with IBM is very strong, were a good supplier to them as well, so we help them with their strategy and go to market as well. So an interesting sort of relationship. Um look when we work with clients, we typically tend to, you know, take a trusted advisor role with clients. Our brand speaks to the trust that we're able to bring when we talk to clients. Uh I kid around um you know, when you're going through a transformation, you probably want the town skeptic holding your hand. That's us, right? We're very risk averse. We like working with clients who you know, kind of want that, you know, critical look when they're investing in technology driven transformation. Um you know, some of the things that IBM has done is pretty phenomenal. Right? So for example, I don't see um you know, I don't see a lot of providers out there who give clients the kind of options that IBM gives with their multi cloud capabilities. Right? So show me conversational ai capability that can run on private cloud, that can run on google amazon IBM and a whole bunch of other cloud providers. Right, So I think as IBM invests in that open right philosophy and obviously the Red hat acquisition only further enhances that. Right, um it's a great opportunity for us to be able to take very powerful KPMG value propositions um you know, enabled by this kind of IBM technology. Right, so that's how we tend to go to market. Um one of the solutions were offering with IBM is called the KPMG data mesh. It's built on IBM cloud pack for data, which is enabled by red hats open shift and it's a very innovative solution in the marketplace that fundamentally asked the question to clients, why are you spending inordinate amount of time and resources moving data around in order to become data driven? Uh it just amazes me john how much money is being thrown at, you know, moving data around, particularly as you get into this complex hybrid, multi cloud world. Right. How many times am I going to move data from, you know, a mainframe database into my, you know, cloud repository before I can start doing uh, you know, real higher value work. Right, So KPMG data mesh enabled by the IBM cloud back, the data says, hey, legal data, wherever it is. You know, we can take up to 30 of costs out and really get you on this journey to become data driven without spending the first nine months of every project building a data warehouse or building an expensive data where data lake. Right? Because all of those, frankly our 20th century mindset, right? So if I can leave the data where it is your favorite terminology virtually is the data and really focus on what do I do with the data as opposed to you know, how do I move the data? Right. It really starts to change the mindset around becoming data driven. Right, so that's a great example of a solution where we've married our value proposition to clients around connected and trusted and leveraged IBM technology right? In a hybrid multi cloud >>but no great insight. Love the focus. Hybrid cloud, congratulations on your KPMG mesh solution. Their cloud mesh awesome. Taking advantage of the IBM work and love your perspective on the industry. I think you you called it right. I think that's a great perspective. That's the way we're on big transformation innovation wave. Thanks for coming on the key. Appreciate it. >>Absolutely my pleasure. Thanks for having me have a good day. >>Okay, Cube coverage of IBM think 2021. I'm John for your host of the Cube. Thanks for watching.

>>mhm Yes. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual john for your host of the cube paul. Comey who's here is the president and Ceo of red hat cube alumni paul always great to have you on the leader of red hat now President and Ceo for a year I think about a year now we're looking at under your belt now part of IBM Great to see you. >>You too nice to see you again john. >>So we've talked many times on the Cuban now. It's kind of playing out in real time. The software world with open source has gone mainstream. The conversation was moved to the cloud. Okay. People move to the cloud. Cloud native emerges devil has been around for a while. But now the conversation is cloud for the enterprise that uh, the enterprises, it's a tough world. You gotta, it's complicated is a lot of legacies, a lot of value and you want the new stuff. This is what the conversation is now. It's shifted to I got cloud, it's hybrid. What's your reaction to that? >>Well, you know, it really is, as you say, it's complicated but it's evolving and really, really fast. I mean, you know, I think you remember we've been here a lot. You first remember first software is eating the world and open source software is eating the world and in every every company is becoming a software company. All true. But that evolution continues today with the proliferation of hybrid cloud environments that it encompasses everything from data centers to public cloud services to And even now we'll talk about two for far flung edge deployments. That's all now part of the cloud. I mean, this is all what makes up hybrid. I like to always say that Hybrid really is the new data centers but now see IOS and I thi leaders, they need to reconsider what their roles, what their role here is and the way we look at it as every C I O now needs to be a cloud operator because because Hybrid is what their environment is now today, that used to be all in their data center. So, so but one of the things that really makes a choice even more important and its leaders, they need to address address specific needs, um not only to the organization, but even as they change and evolve in this because it really is a dynamic environment, I mean think about it and just mentioned edge and how how important that is to see IOS, we weren't even talking about that two years ago, so, so it's not a single answer here, right? Um and and you know, and there as there wasn't a single answer when it was all in one building or in one data center, but now it's even it's even more complex. So, so we need to enable really a new wave of cloud operators here with technologies that can be deployed as cloud services as well as on premises. We'll talk more about this too, but and we'll talk about this at the summit. We talked about the summit. Cloud services become really important, especially managed services, for example, because, um because we're so complex, Hybrid brings so much power, but it is complex. You know, see I need help with this, they need help managing this now. And so that's really where a lot of our focus is today. >>It's interesting you say there's no single answer. I would agree with you because it's now you can actually do a lot more customization with cloud and Hybrid. I think there's a general sentiment and directionally correct answer uh in the industry is that hybrid is operating model right? And I think you guys are have a whole division of SRS google talks about this all the time and their cloud site reliability engineers. And I think you're seeing that in educational institutions which we'll talk about. But I think this idea of cloud scale as the new I. T. And you mentioned hybrids, the new data center. You know, I don't I don't want to offend my I. T. Friends out there but they're kind of all realizing it to that if they don't understand how to operate cloud scale they'll be irrelevant and they're and they understand that their jobs are not just provisioning storage, networking and servers. Those are now involved in a hybrid architecture. And by the way, there is no one recipe, it's dependent. Each enterprise can have its own set of architecture based on their workloads again. So I buy that no single answer, but there is hybrid and I think it's pretty well understood. I mean, do you agree with that? >>I absolutely agree with that. But let's take a look at this, unpack it a little bit and take a look at the building blocks a bit. Right. Um, you know, we talked about open sources, what's driving all of this now and and everything we're talking about here is built in and around Lennox and it was only possible because Lennox was so open, so available and became so powerful, that's now been the platform that all this new innovation is built around. I mean, I oftentimes saying it's true the cloud just wouldn't be here had Lennox not only made its way in the open source development environment, but made its way into the enterprise to enable it to companies like us that make it enterprise ready, secure etcetera. So I think that's really an important thing to understand here. So when you talk about skills that the Ceos need certainly SRE skills, operation skills etcetera, but they also need Lennox skills and even open source skills. So so I think I think that's important, everything that's coming down the road and in in this space in um in his open source based and built in and around Lennox things like ai quantum computing, autonomous vehicles um IOT in and out to the edge all built on a foundation of Lennox and open source. So we see it in the enterprise everywhere now. I mean a survey where you know we did a survey out there and looking at the survey of C I O s out there, open is predominant out there, Lennox is predominant out there in hybrid is predominant and growing in a pretty big clip every year. >>You know, paul, I want to get your reaction to something because this may be kind of a dot connecting moment for me because I want to get your thoughts on this because it's a it's a pattern I'm seeing emerging now multiple times and usually I thought this was kind of a one off, but I'm starting to see it. So I'm going to get your thoughts on this. You guys have been super successful with open source in the enterprise, Super successful over decades, building a community and an ecosystem now with open source with with cloud Native, specifically we're seeing end users participating more in the, in the contribution starts out with the hyper scale ear's but now you're seeing kind of, I would call general purpose mainstream enterprises contributing projects, not necessarily their expertise, but they've been participating in taking the goodness of open source and bringing that into the into the enterprise. And I'll see you relying on you guys as well. But now I'm starting to see the pattern where people are relying on you to bring your community to them and they merge their communities with you guys and being kind of a steward there, is that a pattern? Do you see that evolving? Because we've heard that on multiple interviews on the cube where we've heard end users say we love the red hat ecosystem and and that seems to be more and more about they want to be building their ecosystem. So you did it for yourselves, you did it for the industry. Now, enterprises want this service is this is this is a pattern. And what's your reaction to that? >>It actually is a pattern because it's actually one of the reasons why innovation is moving so quickly right now. As I just said, you know, you know, this whole area here in infrastructure and cloud and development environments, Hybrid included. It's all built in and around, it's all built in and around Lennox. And in the past, what's happening and driven by open source development in the past? What happened? Look at the old fashioned way, right, where a company like us would be in a company, software company, not like us, but any old software company would be, you know, in their stovepipe, talking to their customers, getting their requirements and then bringing those requirements back from the customer base and then trying to work that into their products over time, get that back out to the customer to test it and try it, see it as it works. That's probably a five year, there's probably a five year journey, uh, for big, big requirements for big change requirements you look at now with, with actually end users now participating in upstream development, they're building their requirements into that upstream, which is our development environment. And actually that's what feeds our products. And so we've cut out the middleman, if you will completely in there now when we're building those requirements into our future future, R and D work in the upstream and then we bring that down into a product back into their enterprise for them to use in production. So it cuts out years of time for that innovation to get from concept to building to product, rising to production. And, and I think, you know, john, that's one of the big reasons why that customer base participating is one of the big reason why we're seeing innovation move like we've never seen it before in the enterprise, which in the old days that was a stodgy place where they didn't want to move very quickly. >>Yeah. And the values there, I mean I think it's clear what the pandemic we get to this towards the the last last talking track here. But with the pandemic I think it's pretty clear what the value is and the speed to capture opportunities and growth. I think enterprises are realizing that I think the power of the ecosystem is a modern error kind of phenomenon that is now kind of showing its its value and clearly in the market. And I think people who harness communities and ecosystems not try to fork them but connect them and and intersect them and kind of played well together. So again this is an open source concept kind of re imagined so we'll keep an eye on that. So, um, I want to get to your comment in the kino you mentioned at the top here every C I. O. It has to be a cloud operator. You know, that reminds me of all the start ups and all the positioning statements. Every company needs to be a software company. Every company needs to be a media company. Every company needs to be a cloud operator. So I love that. What does it mean? Because I could say, hey paul, I have a cloud, I'm working on amazon Or is that it? Or wait a minute as yours got, I got 365 over here and I'm using big query over here. I might use oracle over here. I mean all these multi cloud conversations. So it's confusing. >>Yeah. Tell me what, you know, if you look at, if you look at it, we were really one of the first ones to really build around this hybrid, this hybrid concept. And the reason why we were one of the first ones is because what amazon hit the world 12 or 13 years ago or something like that, They were the first major cloud and at the time that the narrative was that, you know, every application was going to move to the cloud tomorrow. Right well, because as I said earlier, everything is built in and in and around open source. And legs were very involved with our customers as they tried to move those first applications to the cloud. So certainly is a lot of value and moving to the cloud. But our customers quickly realized with us helping them, quickly realized that you know what, this is great. But not every application suited for the cloud, um for any cloud, but also I may want to run multiple clouds because another cloud provider over here might have a better service than this particular service over here, vice versa. And so we were in the middle of that. So one of the decisions we made seven or eight years ago, everything we did in that last seven or eight years around the portfolio, whether it was building products, m and A, requiring new companies etcetera, was built around that hybrid portfolio. What that means is a common platform that sits both on premise and bare metal machines. Virtual machines, private clouds on premise multiple clouds across out in the enterprise, that common platform so that developers, operators and the security people have that common platform to build with because just like in Lenox, even though they are all derived from open source upstream, they're all different, they all make different choices and how they're going to configure themselves. So, so that's important. So now we're out there with these multiple clouds. One of our surveys we see our Ceo is telling us now that You're using on the average I think six Clouds today and they expect that to go 8-10 over the next 3-5 years. So how are they going to manage that? How are they going to secure that? How are their operations people going to operate with that? That's all the things that we've been working on over the last number of years. So from that common platform, which is sort of the basis which is open shift to underneath it, which is the Linux operating system, which is well that spans all those footprints that I talked about. And then also you look at one of the latest trends is as well as manage services because what customers are now telling us is okay I got this environment that this hybrid is now my data center. It means I have to worry about these apps all in different footprints. Um I want to the platform to act like a cloud in some cases I don't want to I don't want to even manage it. I want you to manage it for me because for many reasons I want great up time. I might not have the right skill sets in my organization and so I want you to manage it. And so that's where we develop managed services and that's where we have set a large group today large SRE group that's providing those managed services no matter where our platform runs for our customers. Also, what I talked about in my keynote today is that to support that thought process is that we're doing a lot of research in this and so, you know, in a typical computer science research world, you know, of the past, you might really be into the into the real computer science of Research. We with the consortium around mass Open cloud with Boston University, MIT, Harvard Northeastern with this consortium. We're running mass Open cloud on all Red Hat with the collaboration of these universities and we're really focusing on the sorry aspect of it. What do we need to manage it? What do we need around automation to manage it? What do we need around ai to manage it? What do we need for tools to manage it? And and that's really goes down to what I fully briefly said in the beginning, is that every C I O N I T uh executive now has to be their own cloud operator because they are effectively stitching all these disparate clouds together. So that's where a big part of our focus takes us all the way from, You know, upstream development to product to the research we're doing for the next 3-5 plus years. >>You know, I gotta say the hybrid cloud is a new data center which is implying I T in the cloud operators with C X O S and C IOS is interesting because it's validated by Mckinsey's recent report that came out that said there's a trillion dollars of untapped value in one retrofitting existing infrastructure and operations and to net new operate use cases that the cloud enables. So there's clearly not two categories of value proposition that businesses are facing. One is, you know, kind of take care of the existing and then also bring in the new that cloud enables. So, you know, I think that's really key and that will drive the business leaders to foresight, if you will to be agile and adaptive to that. So so totally agree on that. I love this open cloud initiative, you mentioned the mass open cloud which I know is kind of like this beanpot for techies, um people who know what that means, uh it's in the boston area these institutions um this is gonna be a training and an opportunity to train the next generation and if you take it to the next level cybersecurity is also in this kind of net new novelty, interdisciplinary components. So you got engineering which is like devops engineering and then Systems Engineering and Computer Science intersecting together with kind of this data discipline. So it hits cybersecurity which is a board level conversation, it hits the new business model opportunities which is a driver, this is new, this is there's no pre existing curriculum. What how do you explain that to heads of the departments and the deans of these institutions saying, you know, it's an engineering thing. No, it's computer science thing. No, it's a it's a business school thing with data science. What's your what's your conversation with folks in the industry when you say this is a different thing? >>Uh you know, the university, you know, the university is getting, it was actually one of the one of the first things this is you know what you'll see. You know, I talked to uh dr bob Brown from President bu earlier in an interview and and this is what we imagined with them early on and even they brought those disciplines together now in in in what they call a harry institute, where to bring data, computer science engineering as you say. And now even operations, it's almost like, you know, systems engineering on steroids, it's a really big spanning system. And so so the universities are starting understand that's why these universities in the consortium, that's why we're working here. But also, you know, the industry's kind of learning it the hard way because now that they get some of their developers starting to move some of their application developments out into one, maybe two clouds and having the now they have to figure out how they're going to do all those things that we talked about, develop, secure operated. So they're they're learning the hard way that this is the new discipline because that's reality. I also think that, you know, as I said, like anything in tech, we always say this is going to happen tomorrow. I also think, like I said, when when cloud first came came out, everybody saying, I'm moving every app to the cloud tomorrow. We even had customers that bought into that said we're moving going full board but they realized once they get into it it wasn't practical. Don't take me wrong. Cloud brings a ton of value here but from a practical perspective it's going to be some apps and across many clouds and and so now they're having to deal with the I. T. Execs and the C. I. Was having to deal with it. So they're learning really fast because of the reality that they have to deal with. Now having said all that to it also brings up why managed services you're seeing so popular right now because as that's moving so fast they just don't have the skills necessary in many cases to really operate and run in this in this type of environment. It brings so much power but the skills aren't necessarily there in the industry. So that now you see the connection between the industry where we sit and even the university now looking at this whole big problem as as you put said, john, actually a new discipline, >>I think, I think, and I think one final leg of a three legged stool is at the business schools because when you think about systems programming, you mentioned that and you know, I love to go back in history and look at the history of operating systems. And you know, paul, we've talked us in the past and you guys know a lot about operating systems from a technology standpoint, it's not just about a productivity suite for a user or a department with the system, it's a company that needs to be programmed. So when people want to globally operate their business, that software defined this isn't now and this is now happening, right? So this the new leaders in these companies that want to run these global companies that scale operate them, just like operating the business not necessary. Operating a tech or shiny new toy, have to build the operating system for the business. To me, I think that's where I see IBM looking at cloud differently and saying, hey, this is an operating system under the covers for the business. The applications are multi fold from, you know, an application for productivity to an edge device, industrial or consumer user work at home. I mean it's a plethora of applications. What's your reaction to that? And you you see the same thing? >>I mean frankly, I think this is an area that a lot of the infrastructure players missed in the past. And I think I think this is what IBM saw with with bringing us in as well. It's all about the application. You know, I said earlier that, you know, we said every every company was a software company is true. And so that means the companies are running their businesses on these applications. So it's all about the app and I think a lot of infrastructure companies miss that. And and so with Hybrid now you have that ability to run the app wherever makes the most sense for for a whole host of reasons. And so now, but now comes the complexity of all of that. I think, I think IBM with bringing us in saw that that Hybrid was maybe as big, if not a bigger opportunity than cloud itself because of of the complexity it's going to bring, the power is going to bring. But also the complexity is gonna bring. I see that's why, you see Arvind, I sort of doubling down the entire IBM company on on hybrid services that are that are going to be really important here, that they provide these applications on top that are going to be really important, but that have to be architected in such a way that they can run in a hybrid environment. And finally there's all the infrastructure and tools and development pieces that we bring to the table. So, So yeah, I think I think are really, really understood that as they made the decision to bring redheaded, >>I talked to a center all the time and they also have this kind of concept of re factoring and reprogramming your business. Uh, it's not, it's a holistic view. This is kind of what's happening. So my final question for you is as as that becomes software enabled and programmed if you will with applications the business with many different subsystems in there. Um a lot of companies now looking at the light at the end of the tunnel with the pandemic and they're seeing vaccines coming out. Some say vaccines will be pretty much everywhere, everyone over 12 by the fall. So we're back to real life. There's gonna be a pullback of some projects on doubling down on others. As you as you mentioned, what are we doing? We're starting to see hybrid as companies come out of the pandemic, they're all jockeying to make sure that they have either done their work to re factor or reposition, reprogrammed their business and be set up for net new opportunities. >>What >>do you see as a growth model or growth opportunities for companies? You want to come out with a growth strategy out of the gate of the pandemic. What's your thoughts? >>Well, I mean, I think you have to plan for companies have to plan for your workforce to be anywhere, but in order to be anywhere in and to be productive, you need you need services like we're on right now for example, but you need the infrastructure to be able to do that. You need you need a way for your customers if you buy the fact that every company is a software company, you're running a business through their applications either way for your customers to be able to interact with you anywhere from where they are anywhere in a real time way. And so I think that's why from our perspective, things like that we're pushing a lot on the edge. Now, that's why you're seeing the hybrid cloud moved all the way out into the edge and you can see it in every vertical, you know, in the telco space. The edge means you gotta do, you have data and compute that needs to be done on the set on the cell tower in the manufacturing world. You have the state and compute that needs to be done on the factory floor, in the retail vertical. We see the edge really being significant in all these verticals, but but that edge is now extends that hybrid data center that we've been talking so much about. So even though you have all these edge devices way out there on the edge, it's a critical part of the business. So you have to have, your developers need need to be able to develop for it, you need to secure it, you need to and you need to operate it and manage it. So now, you know, in a very short period of time, hybrids taken on another dimension, bringing you out to all these points on the edge which is the same but slightly different in every vertical. Now comes complexity and that's why automation is so important because with that power comes complexity but it's going to take automation to keep it all running, >>paul. Great insight. Thanks for coming on the cube. Open innovation out in the open with with you guys again continue. And the focus of the evolution of software and the cloud with enterprise I. T. Clearly a lot of innovation and your contribution to academia and the mass open cloud and all the open cloud initiatives, phenomenal. The world's going. Open source and continues and continues. Doesn't stop. The operating system of businesses is coming and you guys are well positioned. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks again john. Always a pleasure. >>Okay paul, Cormier, President Ceo of Red Hat here on the Cuban, john for your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm mm.

>>on the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Hello and welcome back to the Cubes Live coverage Cube live here in Palo Alto, California, with the Virtual Cube this year because we can't be there in person. I'm your host, John Fairy year. We're kicking off Day two of the three weeks of reinvent a lot of great leadership sessions to review, obviously still buzzing from the Andy Jassy three. Our keynote, which had so many storylines, is really hard to impact. We're gonna dig that into into into that today with Jerry Chan, who has been a Cube alumni since the beginning of our AWS coverage. Going back to 2013, Jerry was wandering the hallways as a um, in between. You were in between vm ware and V C. And then we saw you there. You've been on the Cube every year at reinvent with us. So special commentary from you. Thanks for coming on. >>Hey, John, Thanks for having me and a belated happy birthday as well. If everyone out there John's birthday was yesterday. So and hardest. Howard's working man in technology he spent his entire birthday doing live coverage of Amazon re events. Happy birthday, buddy. >>Well, I love my work. I love doing this. And reinvent is the biggest event of the year because it really is. It's become a bellwether and eso super excited to have you on. We've had great conversations by looking back at our conversations over the Thanksgiving weekend. Jerry, the stuff we were talking about it was very proposed that Jassy is leaning in with this whole messaging around change and horizontal scalability. He didn't really say that, but he was saying you could disrupt in these industries and still use machine learning. This was some of the early conversations we were having on the Cube. Now fast forward, more mainstream than ever before. So big, big part of the theme there. >>Yeah, it z you Amazon reinvent Amazon evolution to your point, right, because it's both reinventing what countries are using with the cloud. But also what Amazon's done is is they're evolving year after year with their services. So they start a simple infrastructure, you know, s three and e c. Two. And now they're building basically a lot of what Andy said you actually deconstructed crm? Ah, lot of stuff they're doing around the call centers, almost going after Salesforce with kind of a deconstructed CRM services, which is super interesting. But the day you know, Amazon announces all those technologies, not to mention the AI stuff, the seminar stuff you have slack and inquired by Salesforce for $27.7 billion. So ah, lot of stuff going on in the cloud world these days, and it's funny part of it, >>you know, it really is interesting. You look up the slack acquisition by, um, by Salesforce. It's interesting, you know, That kind of takes slack out of the play here. I mean, they were doing really well again. Message board service turns into, um, or collaboration software. They hit the mainstream. They have great revenue. Is that going to really change the landscape of the industry for Salesforce? They've got to acquire it. It opens the door up from, or innovation. And it's funny you mention the contact Center because I was pressing Jassy on my exclusive one on one with him. Like they said, Andy, my my daughter and my sons, they don't use the phone. They're not gonna call. What's this? Is it a call center deal? And he goes, No, it's the It's about the contact. So think about that notion of the contact. It's not about the call center. It's the point of contact. Okay, Linked in is with Microsoft. You got slack and Salesforce Contact driven collaboration. Interesting kind of play for Microsoft to use voice and their data. What's your take on that? >>I think it's, um you know, I have this framework. As you know, I talked my friend systems of engagement over systems intelligence and systems record. Right? And so you could argue voice email slack because we're all different systems of engagement, and they sit on top of system of record like CRM customer support ticketing HR. Something like that. Now what sells first did by buying slack is they now own a system engagement, right? Not on Lee is slack. A system engagement for CRM, but also system engagement for E. R. P Service. Now is how you interact with a bunch of applications. And so if you think about sales for strategy in the space, compete against Marcus Soft or serves now or other large AARP's now they own slack of system engagement, that super powerful way to actually compete against rival SAS companies. Because if you own the layer engagement layer, you can now just intermediate what's in the background. Likewise, the context center its own voice. Email, chat messaging, right? You can just inter mediate this stuff in the back, and so they're trying to own the system engagement. And then, likewise, Facebook just bought that company customer a week ago for a billion dollars, which also Omni Channel support because it is chat messaging voice. It's again the system engagement between End User, which could be a customer or could be employees. >>You know, this really gonna make Cit's enterprise has been so much fun over the past 10 years, I gotta say, in the past five, you know, it's been even more fun, has become or the new fun area, you know, And the impact to enterprise has been interesting because and we're talking about just engaging system of record. This is now the new challenge for the enterprise. So I wanna get your thoughts, Jerry, because how you see the Sea, X O's and CSOs and the architects out there trying to reinvent the enterprise. Jassy saying Look and find the truth. Be on the right side of history here. Certainly he's got himself service interest there, but there is a true band eight with Cove it and with digital acceleration for the enterprise to change. Um, given all these new opportunities Thio, revolutionize or disrupt or radically improve, what's the C. C X's do? What's your take on? How do you see that? >>It's increasingly messy for the CXS, and I don't I don't envy them, right? Because back in the day they kind of controlled all the I t spend and kind of they had a standard of what technologies they use in the company. And then along came Amazon in cloud all of sudden, like your developers and Dio Hey, let me swipe my credit card and I'm gonna access to a bunch of a P I s around computing stories. Likewise. Now they could swipe the credit card and you strike for billing, right? There's a whole bunch of services now, so it becomes incumbent upon CSOs. They need Thio new set of management tools, right? So not only just like, um, security tools they need, they need also observe ability, tools, understanding what services are being used by the customers, when and how. And I would say the following John like CSOs is both a challenge for them. But I think if I was a C X, so I'll be pretty excited because now I have a bunch of other weapons and other bunch of services I could offer. My end users, my developers, my employees, my customers and, you know it's exciting for them is not only could they do different things, but they also changed how their business being done. And so I think both interact with their end users. Be a chat like slack or be a phone like a contact center or instagram for your for your for your kids. It's actually a new challenge if I were sick. So it's it's time to build again, you know, I think Cove it has said it is time to build again. You can build >>to kind of take that phrase from the movie Shawshank Redemption. Get busy building or get busy dying. Kinda rephrase it there. And that's kind of the theme I'm seeing here because covert kind of forced people saying, Look, this things like work at home. Who would have thought 100% people would be working at home? Who would have thought that now the workloads gonna change differently? So it's an opportunity to deconstruct or distant intermediate these services. And I think, you know, in all the trends that I've seen over my career, it's been those inflection points where breaking the monolith or breaking the proprietary piece of it has always been an opportunity for for entrepreneur. So you know, and and for companies, whether you're CEO or startup by decomposing and you can come in and create value E I think to me, snowflake going public on the back of Amazon. Basically, this is interesting. I mean, so you don't have to be. You could kill one feature and nail it and go big. >>I think we talked to the past like it's Amazon or Google or Microsoft Gonna win. Everything is winner take all winner take most, and you could argue that it's hard to find oxygen as a start up in a broad platform play. But we think Snowflake and other companies have done and comes like mongo DB, for example, elastic have shown that if you can pick a service or a problem space and either developed like I p. That's super deep or own developer audience. You can actually fight the big guys. The Big Three cloud vendors be Amazon, Google or or market soft in different markets. And I think if you're a startup founder, you should not be afraid of competing with the big cloud vendors because there there are success patterns and how you can win and you know and create a lot of value. So I have found Investor. I'm super excited by that because, you know, I don't think you're gonna find a company takedown Amazon completely because they're just the scale and the network effects is too large. But you can create a lot of value and build Valuable comes like snowflake in and around the Amazon. Google Microsoft Ecosystem. >>Yeah, I want to get your thoughts. You have one portfolio we've covered rock rock set, which does a lot of sequel. Um, one of your investments. Interesting part of the Kino yesterday was Andy Jassy kind of going after Microsoft saying Windows sequel server um, they're targeting that with this new, uh, tool, but, you know, sucks in the database of it is called the Babel Fish for Aurora for post Chris sequel. Um, well, how was your take on that? I mean, obviously Microsoft big. Their enterprise sales tactics are looking like more like Oracle, which he was kind of hinting at and commenting on. But sequel is Lingua Franca for data >>correct. I think we went to, like, kind of a no sequel phase, which was kind of a trendy thing for a while and that no sequel still around, not only sequel like mongo DB Document TV. Kind of that interface still holds true, but your point. The world speaks sequel. All your applications be sequel, right? So if you want backwards, compatibility to your applications speaks equal. If you want your tire installed base of employees that no sequel, we gotta speak sequel. So, Rock said, when the first public conversations about what they're building was on on the key with you and Me and vent hat, the founder. And what Rock said is doing their building real time. Snowflake Thio, Lack of better term. It's a real time sequel database in the cloud that's super elastic, just like Snowflake is. But unlike snowflake, which is a data warehouse mostly for dashboards and analytics. Rock set is like millisecond queries for real time applications, and so think of them is the evolution of where cloud databases air going is not only elastic like snowflake in the cloud like Snowflake. We're talking 10 15 millisecond queries versus one or two second queries, and I think what any Jassy did and Amazon with bowel officials say, Hey, Sequels, Legal frank of the cloud. There's a large installed base of sequel server developers out there and applications, and we're gonna use Babel fish to kind of move those applications from on premise the cloud or from old workload to the new workloads. And, I think, the name of the game. For for cloud vendors across the board, big and small startups thio Google markets, often Amazon is how do you reduce friction like, How do you reduce friction to try a new service to get your data in the cloud to move your data from one place to the next? And so you know, Amazon is trying to reduce friction by using Babel fish, and I think it is a great move by them. >>Yeah, by the way. Not only is it for Aurora Post Chris equal, they're also open sourcing it. So that's gonna be something that is gonna be interesting to play out. Because once they open source it essentially, that's an escape valve for locking. I mean, if you're a Microsoft customer, I mean, it ultimately is. Could be that Gateway drug. It's like it is ultimately like, Hey, if you don't like the licensing, come here. Now there's gonna be some questions on the translations. Um, Vince, um, scuttlebutt about that. But we'll see it's open source. We'll see what goes on. Um great stuff on on rocks that great. Great. Start up next. Next, uh, talk track I wanna get with you is You know, over the years, you know, we've talked about your history. We're gonna vm Where, uh, now being a venture capitalist. Successful, wanted Greylock. You've seen the waves, and I would call it the two ways pre cloud Early days of cloud. And now, with co vid, we're kind of in the, you know, not just born in the cloud Total cloud scale cloud operations. This is kind of what jazz he was going after. E think I tweeted Cloud is eating the world and on premise and the edges. What it's hungry for. It kind of goof on mark injuries since quote a software eating the world. This is where it's going. So it's a whole another chapter coming. You saw the pre cloud you saw Cloud. Now we've got basically global I t everything else >>It's cloud only I would say, You know, we saw pre cloud right the VM ware days and before that he called like, you know, data centers. I would say Amazon lawns of what, 6 4007, the Web services. So the past 14 15 years have been what I've been calling cloud transition, right? And so you had cos technologies that were either doing on migration from on premise and cloud or hybrid on premise off premise. And now you're seeing a generation of technologies and companies. Their cloud only John to your point. And so you could argue that this 15 year transitions were like, you know, Thio use a bad metaphor like amphibians. You're half in the water, half on land, you know, And like, you know, you're not You're not purely cloud. You're not purely on premise, but you can do both ways, and that's great. That's great, because that's a that's a dominant architecture today. But come just like rock set and snowflake, your cloud only right? They're born in the cloud, they're built on the cloud And now we're seeing a generation Startups and technology companies that are cloud only. And so, you know, unlike you have this transitionary evolution of like amphibians, land and sea. Now we have ah, no mammals, whatever that are Onley in the cloud Onley on land. And because of that, you can take advantage of a whole different set of constraints that are their cloud. Only that could build different services that you can't have going backwards. And so I think for 2021 forward, we're going to see a bunch of companies or cloud only, and they're gonna look very, very different than the previous set of companies the past 15 years. And as an investor, as you covering as analysts, is gonna be super interesting to see the difference. And if anything, the cloud only companies will accelerate the move of I t spending the move of mawr developers to the cloud because the cloud only technologies are gonna be so much more compelling than than the amphibians, if you will. >>Yeah, insisting to see your point. And you saw the news announcement had a ton of news, a ton of stage making right calls, kind of the democratization layer. We'll look at some of the insights that Amazon's getting just as the monster that they are in terms of size. The scope of what? Their observation spaces. They're seeing all these workloads. They have the Dev Ops guru. They launched that Dev Ops Guru thing I found interesting. They got data acquisition, right? So when you think about these new the new data paradigm with cloud on Lee, it opens up new things. Um, new patterns. Um, S o. I think I think to me. I think that's to me. I see where this notion of agility moves to a whole nother level, where it's it's not just moving fast, it's new capabilities. So how do you How do you see that happening? Because this is where I think the new generation is gonna come in and be like servers. Lambs. I like you guys actually provisioned E c. Two instances before I was servers on data centers. Now you got ec2. What? Lambda. So you're starting to see smaller compute? Um, new learnings, All these historical data insights feeding into the development process and to the application. >>I think it's interesting. So I think if you really want to take the next evolution, how do you make the cloud programmable for everybody? Right. And I think you mentioned stage maker machine learning data scientists, the sage maker user. The data scientists, for example, does not on provisioned containers and, you know, kodama files and understand communities, right? Like just like the developed today. Don't wanna rack servers like Oh, my God, Jerry, you had Iraq servers and data center and install VM ware. The generation beyond us doesn't want to think about the underlying infrastructure. You wanna think about it? How do you just program my app and program? The cloud writ large. And so I think where you can see going forward is two things. One people who call themselves developers. That definition has expanded the past 10, 15 years. It's on Lee growing, so everyone is gonna be developed right now from your white collar knowledge worker to your hard core infrastructure developer. But the populist developers expanding especially around machine learning and kind of the sage maker audience, for sure. And then what's gonna happen is, ah, law. This audience doesn't want to care about the stuff you just mentioned, John in terms of the online plumbing. So what Amazon Google on Azure will do is make that stuff easy, right? Or a starved could make it easy. And I think that the move towards land and services that moved specifically that don't think about the underlying plumbing. We're gonna make it easy for you. Just program your app and then either a startup, well, abstract away, all the all the underlying, um, infrastructure bits or the big three cloud vendors to say, you know, all this stuff would do in a serverless fashion. So I think serverless as, ah paradigm and have, quite frankly, a battlefront for the Big Three clouds and for startups is probably one in the front lines of the next generation. Whoever owns this kind of program will cloud model programming the Internet program. The cloud will be maybe the next platform the next 10 or 15 years. I still have two up for grabs. >>Yeah, I think that is so insightful. I think that's worth calling out. I think that's gonna be a multi year, um, effort. I mean, look at just how containers now, with ks anywhere and you've got the container Service of control plane built in, you got, you know, real time analytics coming in from rock set. And Amazon. You have pinned Pandora Panorama appliance that does machine learning and computer vision with sensors. I mean, this is just a whole new level of purpose built stuff software powered software operated. So you have this notion of Dev ops going to hand in the glove software and operations? Kind of. How do you operate this stuff? So I think the whole new next question was Okay, this is all great. But Amazon's always had this problem. It's just so hard. Like there's so much good stuff. Like, who do you hired operate it? It is not yet programmable. This has been a big problem for them. Your thoughts on that, >>um e think that the data illusion around Dev ops etcetera is the solution. So also that you're gonna have information from Amazon from startups. They're gonna automate a bunch of the operations. And so, you know, I'm involved to come to Kronos Fear that we talked about the past team kind of uber the Bilson called m three. That's basically next generation data dog. Next generation of visibility platform. They're gonna collect all the data from the applications. And once they have their your data, they're gonna know how to operate and automate scaling up, scaling down and the basic remediation for you. So you're going to see a bunch of tools, take the information from running your application infrastructure and automate exactly how to scale and manager your app. And so AI and machine learning where large John is gonna be, say, make a lot of plumbing go away or maybe not completely, but lets you scale better. So you, as a single system admin are used. A single SRE site reliability engineer can scale and manage a bigger application, and it's all gonna be around automation and and to your point, you said earlier, if you have the data, that's a powerful situations. Once have the data can build models on it and can start building solutions on the data. And so I think What happens is when Bill this program of cloud for for your, you know, broad development population automating all this stuff becomes important. So that's why I say service or this, You know, automation of infrastructure is the next battleground for the cloud because whoever does that for you is gonna be your virtualized back and virtualized data center virtualized SRE. And if whoever owns that, it's gonna be a very, very strategic position. >>Yeah, it's great stuff. This is back to the theme of this notion of virtualization is now gone beyond server virtualization. It's, you know, media virtualization with the Cube. My big joke here with the Q virtual. But it's to your point. It's everything can now be replicated in software and scale the cloud scale. So it's super big opportunity for entrepreneurs and companies. Thio, pivot and differentiate. Uh, the question I have for you next is on that thread Huge edge discussion going on, right. So, you know, I think I said it two years ago or three years ago. The data center is just a edges just a big fat edge. Jassy kind of said that in his keynote Hey, looks at that is just a Nedum point with his from his standpoint. But you have data center. You have re alleges you've got five G with wavelength. This local zone concept, which is, you know, Amazon in these metro areas reminds me the old wireless point of presence kind of vibe. And then you've got just purpose built devices like cameras and factory. So huge industrial innovation, robotics, meet software. I mean, whole huge edge development exploding, Which what's your view of this? And how do you look at that from? Is an investor in industry, >>I think edges both the opportunity for start ups and companies as well as a threat to Amazon, right to the reason why they have outposts and all the stuff the edges if you think about, you know, decentralizing your application and moving into the eggs from my wearable to my home to my car to my my city block edges access Super interesting. And so a couple things. One companies like Cloudflare Fastly company I'm involved with called Kato Networks that does. SAS is secure access service edge write their names and the edges In the category definition sassy is about How do you like get compute to the edge securely for your developers, for your customers, for your workers, for end users and what you know comes like Cloudflare and Kate have done is they built out a network of pops across the world, their their own infrastructure So they're not dependent upon. You know, the big cloud providers, the telco providers, you know, they're partnering with Big Cloud, their parting with the telcos. But they have their own kind of system, our own kind of platform to get to the edge. And so companies like Kato Networks in Cloud Player that have, ah, presence on the edge and their own infrastructure more or less, I think, are gonna be in a strategic position. And so Kate was seen benefits in the past year of Of of Cove it and locked down because more remote access more developers, Um, I think edge is gonna be a super great area development going forward. I think if you're Amazon, you're pushing to the edge aggressively without post. I think you're a developer startup. You know, creating your own infrastructure and riding this edge wave could be a great way to build a moat against a big cloud guy. So I'm super excited. You think edge in this whole idea of your own infrastructure. Like what Kato has done, it is gonna be super useful going forward. And you're going to see more and more companies. Um, spend the money to try to copy kind of, ah, Cloudflare Kato presence around the world. Because once you own your own kind of, um, infrastructure instead of pops and you're less depend upon them a cloud provider, you're you're in a good position because there's the Amazon outage last week and I think like twilio and a bunch of services went down for for a few hours. If you own your own set of pops, your independent that it is actually really, really secure >>if you and if they go down to the it's on you. But that was the kinesis outage that they had, uh, they before Thanksgiving. Um, yeah, that that's a problem. So on this on. So I guess the question for you on that is that Is it better to partner with Amazon or try to get a position on the edge? Have them either by you or computer, create value or coexist? How do you see that that strategy move. Do you coexist? Do you play with them? >>E think you have to co exist? I think that the partner coexist, right? I think like all things you compete with Amazon. Amazon is so broad that will be part of Amazon and you're gonna compete with and that's that's fair game, you know, like so Snowflake competes against red shift, but they also part of Amazon's. They're running Amazon. So I think if you're a startup trying to find the edge, you have to coexist in Amazon because they're so big. Big cloud, right, The Big three cloud Amazon, Google, Azure. They're not going anywhere. So if you're a startup founder, you definitely coexist. Leverage the good things of cloud. But then you gotta invest in your own edge. Both both figure early what? Your edge and literally the edge. Right. And I think you know you complement your edge presence be it the home, the car, the city block, the zip code with, you know, using Amazon strategically because Amazon is gonna help you get two different countries, different regions. You know you can't build a company without touching Amazon in some form of fashion these days. But if you're a star found or doing strategically, how use Amazon and picking how you differentiate is gonna be key. And if the differentiation might be small, John. But it could be super valuable, right? So maybe only 10 or 15%. But that could be ah Holton of value that you're building on top of it. >>Yeah, and there's a little bit of growth hack to with Amazon if you you know how it works. If you compete directly against the core building blocks like a C two has three, you're gonna get killed, right? They're gonna kill you if the the white space is interest. In the old days in Microsoft, you had a white space. They give it to you or they would roll you over and level you out. Amazon. If you're a customer and you're in a white space and do better than them, they're cool with that. They're like, basically like, Hey, if you could innovate on behalf of the customer, they let you do that as long as you have a big bill. Yeah. Snowflakes paying a lot of money to Amazon. Sure, but they also are doing a good job. So again, Amazon has been very clear on that. If you do a better job than us for, the customer will do it. But if they want Amazon Red Shift, they want Amazon Onley. They can choose that eso kind of the playbook. >>I think it is absolutely right, John is it sets from any jassy and that the Amazon culture of the customer comes first, right? And so whatever is best for the customer that's like their their mission statement. So whatever they do, they do for the customer. And if you build value for the customer and you're on top of Amazon, they'll be happy. You might compete with some Amazon services, which, no, the GM of that business may not be happy, but overall. Net Net. Amazon's getting a share of those dollars that you're that you're charging the customer getting a share of the value you're creating. They're happy, right? Because you know what? The line rising tide floats all the boats. So the Mork cloud usage is gonna only benefit the Big Three cloud providers Amazon, particularly because they're the biggest of the three. But more and more dollars go the cloud. If you're helping move more. Absolute cloud helping build more solutions in the cloud. Amazon is gonna be happy because they know that regardless of what you're doing, you will get a fraction of those dollars. Now, the key for a startup founder and what I'm looking for is how do we get mawr than you know? A sliver of the dollars. How to get a bigger slice of the pie, if you will. So I think edge and surveillance or two areas I'm thinking about because I think there are two areas where you can actually invest, own some I p owned some surface area and capture more of the value, um, to use a startup founder and, you know, are built last t to Amazon. >>Yeah. Great. Great thesis. Jerry has always been great. You've been with the Cube since the beginning on our first reinvented 2013. Um, and so we're now on our eighth year. Great to see your success. Great investment. You make your world class investor to great firm Greylock. Um great to have you on from your perspective. Final take on this year. What's your view of Jackie's keynote? Just in general, What's the vibe. What's the quick, um, soundbite >>from you? First, I'm so impressed and you can do you feel like a three Archy? No more or less by himself. Right then, that is, that is, um, that's a one man show, and I'm All of that is I don't think I could pull that off. Number one. Number two It's, um, the ability to for for Amazon to execute at so many different levels of stack from semiconductors. Right there, there there ai chips to high level services around healthcare solutions and legit solutions. It's amazing. So I would say both. I'm impressed by Amazon's ability. Thio go so broad up and down the stack. But also, I think the theme from From From Andy Jassy is like It's just acceleration. It's, you know now that we will have things unique to the cloud, and that could be just a I chips unique to the cloud or the services that are cloud only you're going to see a tipping point. We saw acceleration in the past 15 years, John. He called like this cloud transition. But you know, I think you know, we're talking about 2021 beyond you'll see a tipping point where now you can only get certain things in the cloud. Right? And that could be the underlying inference. Instances are training instances, the Amazons giving. So all of a sudden you as a founder or developer, says, Look, I guess so much more in the cloud there's there's no reason for me to do this hybrid thing. You know, Khyber is not gonna go away on Prem is not going away. But for sure. We're going to see, uh, increasing celebration off cloud only services. Um, our edge only services or things. They're only on functions that serve like serverless. That'll be defined the next 10 years of compute. And so that for you and I was gonna be a space and watch >>Jerry Chen always pleasure. Great insight. Great to have you on the Cube again. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Congrats to you guys in the Cube. Seven years growing. It's amazing to see all the content put on. So you think it isn't? Just Last point is you see the growth of the curve growth curves of the cloud. I'd be curious Johnson, The growth curve of the cube content You know, I would say you guys are also going exponential as well. So super impressed with what you guys have dealt. Congratulations. >>Thank you so much. Cute. Virtual. We've been virtualized. Virtualization is coming here, or Cubans were not in person this year because of the pandemic. But we'll be hybrid soon as events come back. I'm John for a year. Host for AWS reinvent coverage with the Cube. Thanks for watching. Stay tuned for more coverage all day. Next three weeks. Stay with us from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of aws reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel >>and AWS. Welcome back here to our coverage here on the Cube of AWS.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering upgrade 2020 The NTT Research Summit presented by NTT Research. >>Hi, I'm stupid, man. And this is the Cubes coverage of Upgrade 2020 the global research Summit for NTT and always happy when we get to talk about digital transformation. Happy to welcome to the program First time guests on the program. Eric Clark. He is the chief digital officer with NTT Data. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank >>you. Glad to be here. >>All right, so let's start, you know, CDOs. First of all, there there's lots of studios. We've done lots of events with the chief data officers, which I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about data. But the digital officers, of course, digital so important in general. And even more so in 2020. But let's understand your role is as chief digital officer. What's your charter where you sit in York? What you're responsible for? >>Yeah, definitely. And you know, it's a good question. I often start conversations with our customers by talking about exactly that, because Chief Digital officer means something different toe different companies. So for us, it's primarily market facing. Onda What that means is I spend most of my time looking at research, looking at R and D, looking at what our competitors are doing in the market and looking at where trends. We're going to make sure that we have the right offerings and capabilities to bring to our customers to make sure that they will remain competitive in their markets. >>That's great. You know, We've been talking for years about the, you know, the digital transformations that companies have been going through. One of our definitions have been. If you're not at the end of it, more data driven, you probably haven't done the right thing. But Eric, this year with 2020 you know, anecdotally we talked to a lot of customers, and obviously there's certain initiatives that get frozen or, you know, uh, we'll take a little bit longer. But those digital initiatives, which are supposed to rely on data and help us move fast and be more agile, seem to be at the top of the list and are accelerating because if I can't respond to you know, the daily and weekly changes that have been great in 2020 you know, I might have a tough time surviving. So what are you seeing? You know, how does that live in your world? >>Yeah, you're exactly right. And that's what we're seeing from our client base as well. So early on in the pandemic, there was a lot of freeze, you know, hold everything. Stop. Stop spending. And let's figure out where we are and where this is going. But very quickly that turn to we've got to react. We're gonna be living with this for a while and we can't. We can't afford to sit back and wait and see where it goes. We've got to react, and we've got to direct our our future. And very often the way that comes out is with digital. So you know, customers are looking for opportunities to leverage digital, to grow revenue, to improve customer engagement and to drive more of their revenue through digital channels. >>Interested in one thing I didn't here and there, but I'm sure is part of it. What about the employees themselves? One of the big things, of course, is that we've made this wonderful corporate environment. You've got the great great Internet there, and now wait. Everybody's at home and scrambling as to what they do. So so how about the kind of the the e x to go along with the C X? Yeah, >>exactly. And that was actually one of the first places that we focused as a company, because we do a lot of you know what we refer to as workplace services. So making sure that our customers employees have the tools they need to do their job successfully. Eso immediately. When when officers started closing and people started going home, our big challenge was Let's make sure that our customers can connect from anywhere from wherever they need to be working from and have access to the applications and the tools and the products that they need to perform their jobs remotely. And that's really turned into a significant business of its own of, you know, really addressing those needs not only for our customers but also for our employee base. You know, we have 50,000 people that we sent home more than 90% of overnight, and you know, many of these are our employees that are interacting with our customer based on a daily basis, So we had to make sure not only that they had connective, >>but >>he had to be secure. So it was a very big switch. And I think I personally was really impressed. Not only with what we did, but what we saw. The industry. Dutilleux make that transition very safely and seamlessly. >>Well, let's Eric, I love you to expand a little bit on that. You know which pieces of that that full solution, Uh, is NTT offering? And how do you and your partner's, uh, you know, help your customers through. You know, those rapid options that they need? >>Yeah, so So So we're a full suite provider. So we're focused on digital operations, which is, you know, digitizing your back office from your workplace services to your hybrid infrastructure network, etcetera, all the way through bringing. You know what? We refer to his journey to the cloud. So how do we help you identify what applications and what data you need in the cloud? Um uh, c X and E x. Very big focuses for us. In fact, we take a lot of pride in while we do go to market and sell c X specifically, we consider c x part of everything we do so if we're talking about workplace services or hybrid infrastructure or security. We want the employee experience to be solid, and we want the employee experience to be consistent across all of those things. So way think that our customers should not expect to have different interfaces and different portals and different user experiences when they do work with us across infrastructure and application and cloud etcetera. >>That's excellent, Eric. You know, we spent the last six months talking about how do we react to the pandemic? And now, at least, you know, here in the U. S. Uh, the Children are back in school. If they're back, though, it tends to be ah, hybrid model. And when we look at work, often we know we're gonna have this elongated kind of new abnormal, if you will. So, yes, you might be back in the office some, but chances are you will spend some time remote and therefore it's not work from home or back toe work. It's work from anywhere, is what I need to be able to do. So how are you preparing? How are you helping your customers through that? Because, you know, it's one thing if it was just, you know, a switch that says I'm either here or there, but it z changing and it's very fluid. >>Yeah, and you're exactly right. It is work from anywhere, but there are some of our customers that don't have the luxury of work from anywhere. So when you think about manufacturing facilities and different hospitality companies, um, there there are people that need to go into physical places. We do a lot in the healthcare space. We need doctors in the hospitals. So we've done a lot to help our customers figure out safe ways to return to the work. Recently, we've seen universities and, as you mentioned, you know, high schools and elementary schools all going back with varying degrees of success, right? Some of them have failed, and they've had to take a pause and and figure out how they're going to restart. We've also seen professional sports leagues and now college sports leagues. Andi, When we see them having issues, we see protocols adjusting and we see them looking for what can we do to make this safer, more effective and more successful for whether it's our sports team, our school or our business. So we've taken a very active approaching that, and we're leveraging technology and creating I P. That starts with pre arrival, you know, registering in advance and, you know, opting in for things like tracking social distancing and tracking the use of mask, then using cameras and facilities to monitor it, to make sure people that are are adhering to social distancing and adhering to wearing masks. Andi In the event that they aren't we can send instant notifications to their phone. If we have repeat violators, Weaken. Prohibit them from coming back to the office so we can have very strict controls and adherence to whatever the protocols. Maybe as the protocols change. And then the other thing that allows us to do is in the event someone would test positive with co vid, we will know exactly who they've been within 6 ft of without a mask over the past X number of days. All that is stored in the cloud for us to, you know, use for reference and use for audit purposes so that gives us the ability to then use are apt to direct all the people that the person that was positive was in contact with, let them go, get tested, come back with a negative test before they return to the office. So So, basically, what we've done is we've created all kinds of technology using automation and AI and facial recognition to bring MAWR safety and more security to the workplace. Whatever that work placement might be, whether again, school, university manufacturing facility or a hotel >>Really interesting topic. You know, tracking and tracing so critically important we've seen in many countries around the world. That's really help them get their arms around and control that. You know, we talked to the top of the interview about, you know, digital means leveraging the data. And if I don't have the data, I can't respond to what's happening there. Um, here in the US, I haven't heard as much about the tracking and tracing. Is this a company by company thing do they have is the expense all on them to do it? And of course, it raises the concerns about Well, I'm concerned about my privacy and that that balance between the public interest on my right to privacy, how do you help your customer sort through some of those issues >>Well, privacy is definitely a big issue. And, you know, you noticed that when I was explaining that I said in pre pre arrival, you opt in. So the way we've approached it is it is an opt in. So those that don't wanna opt into that kind of tracking and tracing, um won't won't be those that will be allowed to come back to the office. And that goes back to your other point of work from anywhere. Many of those people can still successfully work from anywhere but those that feel like they're more effective, more successful or have a need to be in an office or need to be physically again in a manufacturing facility or a hotel. We have a way to do that safely, >>right? Well, Eric, one of the things I love about research events like yours is a little peek in tow. What's coming on down the road? So any other things you'd like toe, you know, share about, You know, some of the things that are exciting. You some things we should be looking at a little bit further down the road. >>Well, I think you know for us, as you know, We spend a significant amount of money each year on research, and and we really get excited about thes thes opportunities in these showcases. So you'll see ah, lot of exciting information and a lot of what's coming in the future. Um, a lot of it right now, obviously, because of the times you'll see themes of safety and security. Um, but you're also going to see just ah, whole lot of really thought provoking forward thinking technology. >>Always take the opportunity. Even when there are crisis is out there. There's the opportunity for innovation and acceleration off. What's happening? Eric, Thanks so much pleasure talking with you and definitely looking forward to hearing more from from the event. >>Great. Thank you. Enjoyed it. >>Stay with us for more coverage from upgrade 2020 times to minimum. Thanks as always, for watching cute with

>>from the heart of Silicon Valley. It's the Q covering Comcast Innovation Date to you by Comcast. >>Hey, welcome back it ready? Geoffrey here with the Cube were in the Comcast Silicon Valley Innovation Center here in Sunnyvale, just off the runways here. Moffett feels really cool place, a lot of fun toys and gadgets that I have not got to play with yet, but I got to do before I leave. But the conversation today is really about customer experience. We had a small panel this morning of experts talking about customer experience. What does that mean? How do we do a better job at it? And we're excited. Have an expert brought in just for this conversation. She's a net Franz, the founder and CEO of C X Journey, and it's great to see you. >>Thank you. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here. Absolutely been a fun morning. >>What did you think? >>What were some of your impressions of the conversation this morning? You know >>what? It's always great to sit in a room with so many people who have been living and breathing this customer experience journey. And so it was great to hear what Comcast is doing. It was great to hear from some of the other folks in the room. What are some of the latest trends in terms of data and technology and where customer experiences headed? Yeah, it was awesome. >>So customer experiences, it's >>a little bit over. It's almost kind of digital transformation a little bit. Everyone's like experience, experience, experience. And that's a big, complicated topic. How do you help customers really kind of break it down, make it into something manageable, make it into something they can actually approach and have some success with >>us? So I spent a lot of my time working with clients who are brand new to this field, right? I had a former boss who said that they can't even spell C X. Right. So yes, so So yes. So I go in there and I really listen and understand what their pain points are and what they need help with and then get them started on that journey. Basically, soup did not see X strategy work. We typically start out making sure that the right foundation is in place in terms of the executives that they're all a line that they're all committed to this work. The culture. We've got the right culture in place. We've got, you know, some feedback from employees and from customers of what's going well and what's not. And then from there we dive right into a phase that I call understanding. And that's listening to customers listening to employees developing personas so that we can really understand who customers are and who are employees really are, and then also journey mapping to really walk in their shoes to understand the experience that they're having today and then design. Use that to design a better experience for tomorrow. So there's a lot of work that happens up front to make you know the things that we talked about in there this morning. >>Right? Happen. What's the biggest gap? Because everyone >>always talks about being customer centric. And I'm sure if you talk to any sea, of course, were customer centric and you know, we see it would like would like Amazon Andy Jassy and that team is just crazy hyper customer centric and they executed with specific behavior. So what's the part that's usually missing that they think their customer centric, but they're really not? >>Yeah, I think you just hit the nail on the head with the word execute, right? So there's a stat out there that's been out there for forever, and we know it. Every single company, every single business interviews or surveys us to death, right? So they have all this great feedback, but they do nothing with it. They just don't execute. They just don't act on it. And they've got such rich feedback and and and customers want to tell them, Hey, you're doing this well behaved. This is not going so well. So please fix it because we want to continue doing business with you. And so, yeah, it's about execution. I think that's one problem. The other problem is that they focus on the metrics and not on actually doing something with the feedback >>temporary experience. Do they just ignore it? Do they not have the systems to capture it? Are they are they kind of analysis? Paralysis? He just said they have all this great data, and I'm not doing anything about it. Why >>there it is that, too Analysis, paralysis. Let's just beat the numbers to death and and what's the What's the quote about beating the number until the beating the data until the talks >>kind of thing. You know, I don't know that something. I know I'm just mess that, >>but But yeah, they don't have the system in place to actually. Then take what they learn and go do something with it. And I think a big part of it. We talked about this in the room this morning, too. Was around having that commitment from the top, having the CEO say, Listen, we're doing this and we're going to when we listen to, our customers were going toe act on what we hear, So But they don't They don't have the infrastructure in place to actually go and then do it >>right. It's pretty interesting. You have, Ah, a deck that you shared in advance Eight Principles of customer centric city. Yes. And of the aid three are people people before products people before profits people before metrics. That sounds great, but it sounds contrary to everything we hear these days about measure, measure, measure, measure, measure. Right? It's human resource is it almost feels like we're kind of back to these kind of time. Motion studies in tryingto optimize people as if they're a machine as opposed to being a person. >>Yeah, well, it's It's not, because we have to. The way that we could think about is we have to put the human into this. That's what customer experience is all about, right? It's about putting the human in the experience. And it's interesting that you bring up that back because when I opened that talk, I'm show a comm your commercial from Acura, and it's if you've never seen it. It's called the test. If you can google it and find the video and it's really about. If we don't view them as dummies, something amazing happens. That's the tagline, right? And so it's really about people. The experience is all about people. Our business is all about people. That's why we're in business, right? It's all about the customer. It's for the customer. And who's gonna deliver that? Our employees? And so we've got to put the people first, and then the numbers will come >>right. Another one that you had in there, I just have to touch on was forget the golden rule, which which I always thought the golden rules of us. You know, he has the gold makes a >>rule. You're talking about a different golden, which is really treat. Treat others >>not the way you think they want, that you want to be treated but treat people the way that they want to be treated in such a small It's the pylons, but it's so important. >>It's so important. And I love this example that I share. Thio just recently read a book by Hal Rosenbluth called The Customer Comes Second, right, and to most people, that seems counterintuitive, but he's really referring to The employee comes more first, which I love, and I'm the example that he gives us. He's left handed and he goes into a restaurant. He frequents this restaurant all the time, and until I read this story, I never even thought about this. And now that I go to restaurants, I think about this all the time. The silverware is always on the right hand side, but he's left handed, so this restaurant that he frequents the waitress. He always seemed to have the same waitress she caught on, and so when when he would come into the restaurant, she would set the silvery down on the left hand side. for him that's treating people the way that they want to be treated. And that's what customer experience is all about, >>right? One of the topics that he talked about in the session this morning was, um, the reputation that service experiences really defined by the sum of all your interactions. And it's really important to kind of keep a ah view of that that it's not just an interaction with many, many interactions over a period of time that sounds so hard to manage. And then there's also this kind of the last experience, which is probably overweighted based on the whole. >>How do people >>keep that in mind? How did they How did they, you know, make sure that they're thinking that kind of holistically about the customer engagement across a number of fronts within the company. >>Well, you've got to think >>about it as think about it as a journey, not just touch points, not just a bunch of little touch points, because if you think about just the last experience or just a touch point, then you're thinking about transactions. You're not thinking about a relationship, and what we're trying to get at is customer relationships and not just transactional, you know, it's it's they're in, they're out, they're gone, right? So what? We want relationships. We want them to be customers for life. And and that's the only way that we're gonna do it is if we focus on the journey, >>right? What about the challenge of that which was special suddenly becomes the norm. And we talked a lot about, you know, kind of consumers ations of i t. Because as soon as I get great results on a Google search or, you know, I find exactly what I need on Amazon in two clicks and then to take that into whatever my be to be your B to C application as when Now those expectations are not being driven by what I promised to deliver. But they're being driven by all these third party app said. I have a no control up and they're probably developing at a faster pace of innovation that I can keep up housing people, you know, kind of absorb that deal with it and try to take some lessons from that in the delivery of their own application >>essay. You you brought up two things there which I want to address the 1st 1 to which was about the delighting customers. But to answer your question is really about focusing on your customers and your customers needs on. And that's why I talk a lot about customer understanding, right? It's it's about listening to your customers. It's about developing personas and really understanding who they are, what their pain points are, what their problems are, what needs. Are they trying to solve our problems? Are they trying to solve on and then walking in their shoes through journey, mapping? And that understanding allows us to design an experience for our customers, right for our customers. If we don't solve a problem up for our customers, they will go elsewhere and they'll get their problems solved elsewhere, right? So I think that's really important. The first part of your question was, our point was around delighting our customers, and you're absolutely right. We don't have to delight customers at every touch point. I know that's counter to what a lot of people might say or think, but to your point, once we delighted every touch point, now it becomes the new norm. It's an expectation that has now been set and now delight, Where does it stop? You know, Delight is here, and then it's here. And then it's here. And so So it's It's a whole different. So my thinking on that is that most businesses cannot delight at every touch point, and they certainly don't. Um, I think we need to meet expectations and the and the only way that we can do that is to listen and understand and and and then act on what we hear. And, um, most businesses are still very primitive, even when it comes to that, >>right? Okay. Give you the last word. What's what's the kind of the most consistent, easy to fix stumble that most customers are doing when you when you get engaged and you walk in, what's that one thing that you know with 90% confidence factor that when you walk in, this is gonna be, you know, one of these three or four little things that they should stop doing or that they should do just just just get off the baseline? >>Yeah, I think it's You know what I think it >>za combination of sort of speed and responsiveness. I'll give an example. I won't mean the company, but But I thought, man, in this day and age, this shouldn't be happening, right? It was a company that I contacted. I was supposed to set up an account and they said I couldn't for it just wasn't working. I tried different browsers, just wasn't working. So I sent them and eat. First. I tried to call, but I got stuck in Ivy are hell. And then I sent an email and my the email that I got back was an auto responder. That's I will reply within five business days. >>Five business days, Thio like, really, where? Why don't you just ask me to send a fax, right? You know, So So that's the kind >>of stuff that seriously I I want to solve that e mails like really in 2019. We're still responding in five business days. That's just that's just ludicrous. I think that's one of the and it's such it doesn't cost anything to respond in a timely manner and to respond at all right now. Here it is. It's been I haven't heard from them yet, so it's been like seven days now, so >>there's that just tweet tweet at the CEO going to, hopefully the >>CEO tweets and maybe doesn't tweet. >>I know, right? Yeah, well, in >>that you know nothing about opportunity for you because this is not an easy it's not an easy thing to do is it's hard to stay up with people's expectations and to drive new and innovative products when they don't necessarily even know how to engage with those things. >>Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, The field is wide open because, like I said, there's still so many companies that are still just trying to get the basics right. So >>Well, thanks for taking a few minutes of your time. Thanks for participating. Absolutely, She's in that. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube worth the Comcast Silicon Valley Innovation Center. Thanks for watching. We'll see next time.

>> from New York City. It's Theo Cube covering new relic Future Stack 2019. Brought to you by new relic. >> Welcome back on stupid a minute. This is the cubes coverage here of future stack 2019 new relics. 70 year they're doing the show is the U. S. Show. They actually bring these few locations around the globe, right next door to Grand Central Station and about 600 in attendance. And been really excited to kick off with the number of the users here at the show and happened. Welcome program. First time guests. Another cut. Who is the technical fellow in chief? Architect with Genesis. You been at the event a number of times. You're speaking at the event today, but let's start with Genesis. Customer experience is something that I think a lot of people been hearing about on. That is the product. The Genesis has tell us a little bit about the company itself. Sure. >> Yeah. So, Genesis, uh, brain that Maybe not. Everybody knows, but they certainly transitive Lee know us. We're a customer experience platform. We like to say that we're a technology company, but we power. The experience is about 25 billion customer experiences every year for 11,000 plus customers. About 1000 different countries around the world s So we are all about having a connection between brands and their customers, and we enable that >> s o not only some of the cloud shows. I was an enterprise connect earlier this year and definitely was, you know, something I heard a lot about see Exit really important Not only how customers interact with the brand, but internally how you know we treat the employees and that interaction is something that that is raised up. People are kind of important inside, but we're going to talk too much about the people here. We're gonna talk about the technology as the chief architect of this gives a little bit about what you have your arms around in a responsible for >> sure s o for for me, of the project. Your cloud was the name for for a long time, Genesis Cloud as of yesterday. So we are a public cloud offering as a CX platform and I say platform because we made the transition from just being a product to a platform. In my opinion last year, more than half of our FBI work is actually code we didn't right? So I think people using you as a programmable thing is when you become a platform. So I'm responsible for things like cloud architecture for understanding. Let's say industry trends. What technologies? We're gonna use a lot of eight of us service designed technical vetting, general cat hurting that sort of thing, >> Right? So you said your public cloud, but you said it sits on top of AWS. But it's a platform that your customers can then build on top. >> That's right. That's right. So we like to think of ourselves as C X. As a service. We've had some that use us still like a product all shrink wrapped, ready to go, others that want to extend us either writing their own. You guys writing their own back ends their own integration points. We make all of that possible. >> All right, so I'm expecting you have a bit of an opinion when it comes to that platform, As Lou said with a capital P A, and it's gotta be programmable, it's gonna be open. Tell us what your thoughts about new relic kind of entering, you know, new relic one being they said today the first, and only if their claim of observe ability platform s o give us your thoughts around. >> Absolutely. Yeah. S O. I like to think that we have been using the relic as a platform for awhile, whether they knew it or wanted it or not way have a fairly rigorous continuous delivery pipeline. And we are very big believers in infrastructure is code and develops principles. So for us, the engineering teams don't just own the code that they write, but they own the infrastructure definitions. They even own alert definitions, dashboard configurations. And we push that information directly into the relic as our deployments happen. Live hundreds of times a week around the globe. >> All right, so how do these modern architecture's enable you to run a team? >> I can't imagine trying to manage 350 plus Micro service is in production, which is roughly what we have today over 1000 Lambda Functions way can't improve what we don't measure. Everyone likes to say that, but it's true. I have a little bit of an a p m background from from places past. So I was a firm believer that you need to invest early and observe ability and metrics. So we've been a day one kind of new relic subscriber in the cloud space. Everything from understanding how the infrastructure parts work now to serve earless. It's all been about moving up the value stack like commodity metrics of servers is great and still needed. But transactional information and now trace information is absolutely essential. >> Okay, in the Kino this morning, they walk through their metrics events, logs and traces. Where are you with, you know, these various sources of data and harnessing the value of that. >> So I would say, with fairly early towards the tracing part before new relic headed as a managed thing they had cross at tracing. I'm sure you're familiar with that sort of the prior incarnation of distributed tracing on. We leverage that pretty pretty heavily, but it obviously doesn't have quite the same utility a cz what the new open tracing standards provide s so we do things like having correlation i d. S. That let us tag and follow things around. Now we just get to off load that from our team's being as responsible for it. And now the platform gives it to us. >> Yeah. Glen is open source important to your organization? >> Absolutely. We try Thio, give back some ourselves. In fact, one of the one of the nerd lets the nerd packs that Lou mentioned on stage was one that our team wrote s Oh, yeah, way believe not only that, we need a p i's and programmatic access to do our jobs, but we like toe enable and help other people with the same >> Eric Spence got a shout out on the Maquis note was that the thing that you were talking about it is >> I expect to see us probably released two or three more nerd packs before the end of the year Way, way are eager to do that rather than just investing in all of our own. You I that we had glass over the top of the relic. Now we actually just get to put those components deeper inside of new relic proper. >> Okay, eyes there. Anything else from the announcements this morning that you're looking forward to leveraging? >> So I think there's there's definite changes in the A p M space. You'll hear a little bit more, probably in the deep dives one of the talks I'm having later with not even she will be talking about. Some of those things were definitely interested in that. Open telemetry has some value. Greater Genesis definitely has investments around things like Prometheus and other sorts of monitoring. So if I'm not talking about just the public cloud side of it and other aspects there definitely things we can leverage. >> All right, Glenn gives us share a little bit, if you can. About what? What you're talking about here at the show. So one of >> the big mitts is entity centric. Observe, ability. The idea again that we're not just looking at servers and static infrastructure. We're looking at things that are very ephemeral. We have a lot of dynamics scale on our platform on. We need ways to actually frame what we're looking at at the level of Micro Service's but often level like business applications. So even when we're creating some of these extension points like the one you just mentioned way framed that within the context of a service that does a particular vertical slice on dhe, that's that's kind of where we like to invest. So we like to live. >> Okay, um, you know what's what's on your road map of? You know where you're going with your journey and is there anything that you're looking for? Beyond what was announced today from new relic ER from the ecosystem at large, >> I think there's lots of refinements of what was announced today that will help us theeighty I ops side, I think not just for noise reduction, but also for like, early early signal detection. It's a pretty fascinating space. Will likely invest some of our own dollars in times trying to help that along. Definitely Ah, lot of distributed tracing and Maur investment. There is a big piece for us. I think the A PM space. There are areas that I'd like to see a peon vendors invest in that goes beyond what now, I guess, is becoming more, more traditional, like transaction information. We have a lot of a i machine learning ourselves, and I think monitoring those types of workloads is going to be very different. As big of a paradigm shift as it was to go from classic monitoring Transactional. I think we're about to see that happen again in the >> industry. Yeah. What can you share some of the kind of the A I journey that you're going through a genesis where you are, You know what the maturity level is of solutions that you're using and >> sure way have a fairly robust aye aye team on products range from in the W m space back to the people that you mentioned at the first part of the talk way have workforce optimization, workforce management, and we brought a I algorithms to that a lot of time. Siri's forecasting that used certain machine learning techniques. We've invested a fair amount in until you and Opie any are so everything from sentiment detection to live transcription that we built in house to our own body engines that d'oh the new dialogue management. So we have a fairly robust bit there and some on the management side on the operational back in that we used to try to improve our quality of service on reduced any sort of incidents on the platform. >> All right, it's your third year. Third time coming to this show was what brings you back? What you excited about? I kind of dig in and take away from the event this year. >> I think the relics always been a partner in my stance, not just a vendor we believe so deeply in the observe ability message that one I want to be part of shaping that narrative. Eso coming to future sack actually talking to a lot of other executives, seeing where they're going and kind of sharing that use case, but also trying to be a little bit of a lighthouse. Thio, the new relic team as well, is what brings me back every year. >> Observe ability is something that it hurt. A number of startups talking about in the last couple of years were, in your opinion, does new Rolex it compared to the marketplace overall, obviously, they just kind of announced the observe ability, you know, full suite with new relic one. But you know what your viewpoint is? Toe have their wealth, their position? >> Where did I think their position? I think they are best of breed for what we're currently seeing. Owners of ability. There are other things, I think, where we could cobble together bits from multiple vendors but frankly, having application performance monitoring along with infrastructure, along with data being cold from the cloud platforms that we're all in, like, eight of us. They've got a unique place. I think the power of their agent technology has proven itself over time as well. My guidance to most other other companies that I speak with about this subject is don't just trust that it's all magic invest on. And I think they make themselves easy to invest in on. I think this platform play is a good one for them. >> All right. Well, another cut. Thank you so much for joining us. Sharing your journey, What we're doing in the best of luck on your presentation today. Thank you, sir. All right. Be back with lots more coverage here from a new relic. Future stack 2019. I'm still Minutemen. And thank you for watching the Cube.