>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Welcome to the Virtual Cube and our coverage of aws reinvent 2020. I'm Lisa Martin. I'm joined by Ali Siddiqui, the chief product officer of BMC Software. We're gonna be talking about what BMC and A W s are doing together. Ali, it's great to have you on the Cube. Thank >>you, Lisa. Get great to be here and be part off AWS treatment. Exciting times. >>They are exciting times. That is true. No, never a dull moment these days, right? So all he talked to me a little bit. About what? A w what BMC is doing with AWS. Let's dig into what you're doing there on the technology front and unpack the benefits that you're delivering to customers. Great >>questions, Lisa. So at BMC, we really have a close partnership with AWS. It's really about BMC. Placido Blue s better together for our customers. That's what it's really about. We have a global presence, probably the largest, uh, off any window out there in this in our industry with 15 data centers, AWS data centers around the globe. We just announced five more in South Africa. Brazil Latin Um, a P J. A couple of them amia across the globe. Really? The presence is very strong with these, uh, data centers because that lets us offered local presence, Take care of GDP are and we have great certification. That is Aw, sock to fedramp. I'll four Haifa dram. We even got hip certifications as well as a dedicated Canada certifications for our customers. Thanks to our partnership, close partnership with the WS and on all these datas into the cross. In addition, for our customers, really visibility into aws seamless capability toe do multi cloud management is key and with a recent partnership with AWS around specifically AWS >>s >>S m, which gives customers cream multi cloud capabilities around multi cloud management, total visibility seamlessly in AWS and all their services whether it's easy toe s s s three sage maker, whatever services they have, we let them discover on syphilis. Lee give them visibility into that. >>That 360 degree visibility is really key to understand the dependencies right between the software in the services and help customers to optimize their investments in a W s assume correct. >>Exactly. With the AWS s s m and r E I service management integration. We really give deep visibility on the dependency, how they're being used, what services are being impacted and and really, AWS s system is a key, unique technology which we've integrated with them very, very happy with the results are customers are getting from it. >>Can you share some of those results? Operational efficiencies, Cost savings? Yeah, >>Yeah, least another great question. So when I look at the general picture off E I service management in the eye ops, which we run with AWS across all these global dinner senses and specifically with AWS S S M people are able to do customers. And this is like the talkto hyper scale, as we're talking about, as well as large telcos like Ericsson and and some of the leading, uh, industry retail Or or, you know, other customers we have They're getting great value because they're able to do service modeling, automatically use ascend to get true deep visibility seamlessly to do service discovery with for for for all the assets that they run or using our S service management in the eye ops capabilities. It really is the neck shin and it's disrupting the service idea Some traditional service management industry with what we offering now with the service management, AWS s, S M and other AWS Cloud needed capabilities such as sage Maker and AWS, Lex and connect that we leverage in our AI service management ai absolution. We recently announced that as a >>single >>unified platform which allows our customers to go on BMC customers and joined with AWS customers to go on this autonomous digital enterprise journey Uh, this announcement was done by our CEO of BMC. I'm in Say it in BMC Exchange recently, where we basically launched a single lady foundation, a single platform for observe ability, engagement with automation >>for the autonomous digital enterprise. I presume I'd like to understand to, from your perspective, this disruption that you're enabling. How is it helping your customers not just survive this viral disruption that we're all living with but be able thio, get the disability into their software and services, really maximize and optimize their cloud investments so that their business can operate well during these unprecedented times, meet their customer demands, exceed them and meet their customers. Where? There. How is this like an accelerator of that >>great question, Lisa. So when we say autonomous digital enterprise, this is the journey All our customers they're taking on its focus on three trips, agility, customer center, city and action ability. So if you think about our solutions with AWS, really, it's s of its management. AI ops enables these enterprises to go on this autonomous digital enterprise journey where they can offer great engagement to the employees. All CEOs really care about employee engagement. Happy employees make for more revenue for for those enterprises, as well as offer great customer experience for the customers. Uh, using our AI service management and AI ops combined. 80 found in this single platform, which we are calling 80 foundation. >>Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. >>No, go ahead, please. >>I was going to say I always look at the employee experience, and the customer experience is absolutely inextricably linked with the employee experience is hampered. That's bride default. Almost going to impact the customer experience. And right now, I don't know if it's even possible to say both the employee experience and the customer experience are even mawr essential to really get right because now we've got this. You know this big scatter That happened a few months ago with some companies that were completely 100% on site to remote being able, needing to give their employees access to the tools to do their jobs properly so that they can deliver products and services and solutions that customers need. So I always see those two employees. Customer experience is just inextricably linked. >>Absolutely. That's correct, especially in this time, even if the new pandemic these epidemics time, uh, the chief human resource offers. The CEOs are really thick focused on keeping the employees engaged and retaining top talent. And that's where our yes service management any other solution helps them really do. Use our digital assistance chat boards, which are powered by a W X and Lex and AWS connect and and and our integration with, uh, helix control them, which is another service we launched on AWS Helix Control them, which is our South version off a leading SAS product automation product out there, a swell as RP integrations we bring to the table, which really allows them toe take employing, give management to the next level And that's top of mind for all CEOs and being driven by line of business like chief human resource officers. Such >>a great point. Are you? Are you finding that mawr of your conversations with customers are at that sea level as they look to things like AI ops to help find you in their business that it's really that that sea level not concerned but priority to ensure that we're doing everything we can within our infrastructure, wherever where our software and services are to really ensure that we're delivering and exceeding customer expectations? That a very tumultuous time? >>Yes, What we're finding is, uh, really at the CEO level CEO level the sea level. It's about machine learning ai adopting that more than the enterprise and specifically in our capabilities when I say ai ops. So those are around root cause predictive I t. And even using ai NLP for self service for self service is a big part, and we offer key capabilities. We just did an acquisition come around, which lets them do knowledge management self service. So these are specific capabilities, predictability, ai ops and knowledge management. Self service that we offer that really is resonating very well with CEOs who are looking to transform their I T systems and in I t ops and align it with business is much better and really do innovation in this area. So that's what's happening, and it's great to see that we will do that. Exact capabilities that come with R E Foundation. The unified platform forms of ability and lets customers go on this autonomous digital enterprise journey without keeping capabilities. >>Do you see this facilitating the autonomous digital enterprise as as a way to separate the winners and losers of tomorrow as so much of the world has changed and some amount of this is going to be permanent, imagine that's got to be a competitive advantage to customers in any industry. >>We believe enterprises that have the growth mindset and and want to go into the next generation, and that's most of them. Toe, to be honest, are really looking at the ready autonomous digital price framework that we offer and work with our customers on the way to grow revenue to get more customer centric, increase employee engagement. That's what we see happening in the industry, and that's where our capabilities with 80 Foundation as well as Helix. Whether it's Felix Air Service management, he likes a Iot or now recently launched Helix Control them really enable them toe keep their existing, uh, you know, tools as well as keep their existing investments and move the ICTY ops towards the next generation off tooling and as well as increase employee engagement with our leading industry leading digital assistant chat board and and SMS management solution that that's what we see. And that's the journey we're taking with most of our customers and really, the ones with the growth mindset are really being distinguished as the front runs >>talk to me about some validation from the customer's perspective, the industry's perspective. What are you guys hearing about? What you're doing s BMC and with a w s >>so validation from customer that I just talked about great validation. As I said, talk to off the hyper skills users for proactive problem management. Proactive incident management ai ops a same time independent validation from Gardner we are back wear seven years and I don't know in a row So seven years the longest street in Gartner MQ for I t s m and we are a leader in that for seven years the longest run so far by any vendor. We are scoring the top in the top number one position in 12 of the 15 critical capabilities. As you know, Gardner, I d s m eyes really about the critical capability that where most customers look. So that's a big independent validation. Where we score 12 off the way were number one in 12 of the 15 capability. So that was the awesome validation from Gardner and I. D. S M. We also recently E Mei Enterprise Management Associates published a new report on AI Ops and BMT scored the top spot on the charts with Business impact and business alignment. Use cases categories for AI ops. So think about what that means. It's really about your business, right? So So we being the top of the chart for business impact and business alignment for ai ops radar report from Enterprise Management associated with a create independent validation that we can point toe off our solutions and what it is, really, because we partner very closely with our customers. We also got a couple of more awards than we want a lot more, but just to mention two more I break breakthrough, which is a nursery leading third party sources out there for chat boards and e i base chat board solution lamed BMC Helix Chat Board as the best chat board solution out there. Uh, SAS awards another industry analysts from independent from which really, uh really shows the how we're getting third parties and independents to talk about our solutions named BMC SAS per ticket and event management, which is really a proactive problem and proactive incident solution Revolution system as as the best solution out there for ticketing and event management. >>So a lot of accolades. A. Yes. It sounds like a lot of alcohol. A lot of validation. How do customers get How do you get started? So customers looking to come to BMC to really understand get that 3 60 degree visibility. How did they get started? >>Uh, well, they can start with our BMC Discovery, which integrates very tightly with AWS s s M toe. Basically get the full visibility off assets from network to storage toe aws services. Whether there s three. Uh, easy to, uh doesn't matter what services they did. A Kafka service they're using whatever. So the hundreds of services they're using weaken seamlessly do that. So that's one way to do that. Just start with BMC Helix Discovery. Thea Other one is with BMC Knowledge Management on BMC Self Service. That's a quick win for most of our customers. I ai service management, tooling That's the Third Way and I I, off stooling with BMC, Helix Monitor and AI ops that we offer pretty much the best in the industry in those that customers can start So the many areas, and now with BMC, control them. If they want to start with automation, that's a great way to start with BMC control them, which is our SAS solution off industry leading automation product called Controlling. >>And so, for just last question from a go to market perspective, it sounds like direct through BMC Channel partners. What about through a. W. S? >>Yes, absolutely. I mean again, we it's all about BMC and AWS better together we offer cloud native AWS services for our solutions, use them heavily, and I just mentioned whether that S S M or chat boards or any of the above or sage maker for machine learning I and customers can contact the local AWS Rep toe to start learning about BMC and AWS. Better together. >>Excellent. Well, Ali, thank you for coming on the program, talking to us about what BMC is doing to help your customers become that autonomous digital enterprise that we think up tomorrow. They're going to need to be to have that competitive edge. I've enjoyed talking to you >>same year. Thank you so much, Lisa. Really. It's about our customers and partnering with AWS. So very proud of Thank you so much. >>Excellent for Ali Siddiqui. I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching the Cube.

>> Narrator: From around the globe. It's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS re;Invent 2020 special coverage sponsored by AWS global partner network. >> Welcome to theCUBE. This is our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 with special coverage of the APN partner experience. I'm Lisa Martin I've got a couple of gentlemen from BMC software joining me. Please welcome Greg Bukowski, the technology solutions director and Simon Blanks, area vice president Gentlemen it's great to have you on theCUBE virtual. >> Great to be here Lisa. >> Representing social distancing from across the country here. So guys, I'd like to just start Greg with you give our audience an understanding of your role technology solutions director your role and responsibilities at BMC. >> Sure I play the role of a field CTO. So I actually am aligned with our strategic CTO office and I bring their message to our customers all of our strategic customers within North America. >> And Simon, tell us a little bit about your role as area vice president. >> Well first of all, thanks for having us I have responsibility for our channels and our partners in the Americas. So I get to work both within our organization with our customers and with our partners to help them grow, to help us grow and deliver value to our customers. >> Speaking of your customers Simon the last year has been incredibly challenging and brought on a lot of challenges but opportunities. Talk to me about how that has impacted BMCs customers. >> That's a great question. You know, I think our customers are wanting to simplify that they're wanting to focus on what makes them win, right and get away from the things that, you know are not the competitive advantage. We see a lot of customers wanting to get out of the day-to-day operation of the data centers and migrate to the world of AWS but it's not as easy as we would all like it there's lots of challenges. AWS consulting partners are there to help them. One of the largest areas of challenges we see that they are having to address is manage these millions of IT assets that are constantly changing and some of them they don't even know exist and moving those to AWS, but moving them quickly, securely and of course, in a cost-effective manner. >> Talk to me a little bit about some of the speed like in the last nine months, have you seen an acceleration of those customers wanting to move workloads to AWS as we think of way back when the pandemic started and every business had to suddenly send workforces home no access to a data center or very limited. Is that something that you've seen speed up the last few months? >> Yeah we believe it's not only gained in velocity but will continue. We don't think that some of these changes to how a business is conducted are going to stop once the vaccine comes out. So yeah and you know the complexity of making this happen, you know it's difficult, especially in some of the very large organizations be it banks or telecoms or manufacturers or retailers you know it's not an easy chore and you know we've experienced some great wins in that area and helping some of our most strategic customers make that happen. >> So talk to me a little bit about Simon, what's your elevator pitch when you're going and i know you talk with customers, you talk with partners how do you describe BMC and what you guys deliver? >> Well BMC is a 40 year old company with 6,000 employees. we help 93% of the global 1000 manage their IT infrastructure right. In addition to that we help thousands of other customers with the same problems. So, you know what I tell organizations is we're there to help them be successful and to make things tick. >> Awesome thank you. So Greg, talk to me about more about the BMC solutions. You said in your role, you're also field CTO. What are some of the BMC solutions that you recommended AWS consulting partners consider to help customers, especially in this time as you're seeing more and more migrations AWS? >> Yeah I think that's a great point, Lisa. I mean, with the pandemic coming in, you know there was an initial pullback right that we saw from our customers and now as that trend, you know as the summer came on, not that it's gotten less, right. I mean obviously it's a big concern for customers but the realization of how they're going to operationalize themselves and still be a tech driven company and tech driven organization has really accelerated their digital transformation and it's driven more than anything the adoption of cloud technologies and to move into that cloud space it's brought about understanding customers how did they become more digital and to do that they have to connect their services. So underlying that challenge is really what we wanted to bring today to talk about is that BMC has an industry leading solution it's called a BMC discovery solution and it automatically goes within an organization's footprint and understands the dependencies between their infrastructure and their applications. That's really difficult, right? Typically we can just find assets, right? A lot of solutions out there can do that. What BMC does or what our solution does. That's unique in this space is that it understands relationships so that you understand from an application viewpoint which ultimately ties back to a business service into the software that runs on those assets into the applications that are supporting that as well as the platforms and infrastructure and that becomes more and more complex to date. What we see with our customers as they have cloud services they've got containers, they've got on-premise stuff. So we're working with customers today, right? We are the largest retailers in the US working with them to actually transform how they're doing business continuity. So it becomes not only an acceleration but a risk aversion program for them as well as a cost savings effort of trying to adopt that understanding those services from both within their data center, through the mainframe back into their cloud, right and understanding all those interdependencies so that they can run their business more efficiently. >> So Greg have you automated what used to be a traditionally manual lengthy process of that discovery. >> I think that is the key point Lisa. I mean when partners look to us for what value we can bring to them it's about accelerating that time all about reducing the time through automation what used to be a manual effort of understanding how these things connect and being able to having go talk to the application teams. We worked with a large bank as well. They were using other solutions in the marketplace and were taking six to nine months to map a single business service which is complex right it's got about a dozen applications that support it. We brought in our solution and they did it in three hours with one piece of information from an application team. It was unbelievable, right and these are the stories we hear all the time from our customers and this is a great solution that we have that runs in AWS. That's part of our AWS migration competency that we have and you know this is why we're here today on theCUBE. >> Well that speed improvement is massive as you just talked about Greg you know, when you think of organizations now that there is no time, there is no six to nine months to figure things out anymore right. Especially because we've all learned, I think a lot in the last nine months, professionally and personally but there's competition out there. That's ready to come and be nimble and faster and maybe with less legacy than any type of whether it's a retailer or a financial institution. So being able to get in there and discover and align this business and IT services folks to discover what they have, where they should move it that fast is really something that sounds to me like not just a survival mechanism, keeping the lights on during a strange time, but something that may even set apart the winners and the losers of tomorrow. >> Absolutely right. I mean you have to be able to tie into your existing infrastructure for print that traditional legacy or heritage as we call it for print that you have, that still runs your core business. Right, if you're a retailer it's probably some kind of supply chain rate If you're a bank it's all the financial transaction stuff that you do but then also adopt the technology and innovation that exists within the fintech space for a financial services customer and bringing that together and when you're doing that at the native integration point a lot of it comes into the cloud services, right and that's really where they're going to get the acceleration to attack new markets grow their margin in that space and that's where they need partners to help them. To adopt and learn those technologies and integrate those additionally, right we have other advanced capabilities that we offer from an AWS migration competency standpoint around cloud optimization. So when those services are running in there we also do a cost optimization that doesn't look at it from the infrastructure standpoint but actually it takes the same discovery data and lines it back to the lines of business. So the line of business now has visibility into if they're going to change what their operating model is how that's going to affect the cost in the backend services they can optimize their resources. >> So Simon looking at the capabilities that BMC is delivering. Talk to me about the BMC partner program. Why become a BMC partner? I think there's a couple of answers to that. First of all, what Greg was talking about in terms of this you know massive I'll call it reinvention of the amount of time it takes to perform some of these tasks. Some of these tasks that are done in every migration from you know months to days or hours that in and of itself can help the AWS consulting partners massively you know in their efforts. So that's one but I think more importantly than that is the culture of BMC and the importance of partners and the focus that it's getting whether or not it be from our board or CEO or down the management rank. So the channel has become massively important to our success and we're committed to helping our partners be successful right, we're committing to help them make money, right. We're actually, as a part of AWS re;Invent here were going to offer an incentive to partners to come and join our family. Traditionally there's enablement and costs associated with that and we're going to refund that cost. Plus we're going to invest our monies and refund any costs associated with the first co-marketing effort together that we can go out to the market and help them. So I think you know, it's sort of the three legs of the stool. The technology itself is you know, impressive the commitment of our leadership and we're also willing to make it you know, very economically attractive so that would be the reasons >> Everybody likes that, especially economically attractive. So in terms of what you're offering you said that around re;Invent with respect to interested perspective partners, how do they move forward with BMC to become an AWS consulting partner? What's that process like? >> Well, we have you know an onboarding team that Susan DuRoff she reports in to me and helps me with that process. But the best way to do it would be to contact me directly. My email address is simon_blanks@bmc.com and if you reach out to me directly, I'll make sure we get back to you promptly. We can have further discussions and you know, facilitate it and we really look forward to making that happen. >> That's pretty excellent personal service I like that. So Greg talk to me as we get towards the wrap here as field CTO, looking forward into 2021 which we all hope is going to be trim significantly better than 2020. What are some of the opportunities that you see that this time has uncovered for the IT folks and the business folks to get even stronger alignment? >> Yeah, I think this is a great opportunity for customers to realize that bringing together the IT organizations in alignment with their business organizations is a great opportunity from the Revolut to accelerate their adoption of technology accelerate their migrations into adoption of cloud services. But then also look for the opportunities to take advantage of, to grow revenue streams. Right I mean, challenges present opportunities and opportunities present growth, right? That's how customers grow when they recognize those opportunities and become agile enough to adopt them and go after them. >> That's a great mindset because it's absolutely true. It's not matter of how we look at it and look at what's being uncovered to then kind of exploit for good new products, new services, competitive differentiators all sorts of things going on. Well gentlemen, it's been a pleasure having you on theCUBE virtual today. Thank you for joining me. >> Thank you so much appreciate the time and thank you. >> All right. For my guests. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe. It's theCube, with digital coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >> Welcome to the cubes coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020. This is the cube virtual, I'm Lisa Martin and I have a new member, new guests on the cube today. Please welcome Gur Steif, the president of digital business automation at BMC Software. Gur, it's nice to have you on the program. >> Very nice to e-meet you, thank you so much for having me. >> Yes, nice to e-meet you as well. I like your office, your background, very nice by the way. >> It's a real background, it's not virtual. >> I Can tell, you got style. So, so much has changed this year and that's, and that's probably the most overused statement of 2020, right? But as we look at, you know, on theCube, every day we talk to businesses and vendors and every industry every part of the world. And we've been talking a lot about the acceleration of digital transformation, that one of the things that this challenging time has brought is that acceleration. Talk to me about it, as the leader of that for BMC, what are some of the things that you are seeing, what are you hearing from customers? >> It's a great question because customers are in fact having a hard time because there is an absolute acceleration and the need to really innovate more and faster than ever before. At the same time, a lot of customers have a lot of existing, I mean, you know, I don't like using the term legacy because it connotes something negative and in many cases those technologies are what made those companies great. So I really don't like using legacy as a negative term, but it is something you've got to carry with. And many of our customers, and we have been in a journey with our customers, have grown from the mainframe to distributed systems to virtual systems, to kind of first-generation cloud and now going into serverless architectures. And by the way, that's just the infrastructure view. At the same time, you know, on the data aspect, they went from, you know, traditional five systems to databases and SQL databases and now to all kinds of like no sequel databases and big data and streaming machine learning pipelines and on application technologies, we went from something very monolithic to client server to web and mobile and now it's all about DevOps. And the really challenging thing for customers for many of the companies we talk with is that none of those things go away, right? IT is in some cases, for some of our customers, is the archeological science. So we may want to create this amazing new system of innovation and system of engagement that is going to be 100% cloud-based. But some of the data and some of the fundamental elements come from systems of record that may run on a different environment. So this is very complex for customers. What we've done over the years is we're able, we're helped customers to move for distant transition and always manage new technologies and new capabilities without abandoning everything else and really managing it as one thing. What we're really excited about this year is that we are actually going SaaS, right? We've announced that the Control-M is going to be available as BMC Helix Control-M, available as SaaS, starting December 1st. Now, the really interesting element here is that when we are working with customers to do this, to really help them manage their environment better, it's not that we're saying, hey you're going to have to move all your estate from an on-prem to SaaS. Many customers actually tell us that this complexity is not going away. But because they're going to keep running a lot of their on-prem systems on prem, right a lot of their system of record. If you're a bank and you have a mainframe, you're not likely to just get rid of it anytime soon. Kind of like global warming, even with global warming glaciers take a long time to melt, right? The mainframe is going to be here for a really long time and systems of record are going to be on the mainframe and on-prem for a long time. And customers want to keep managing that because what we do is we help them run those systems better and they want to make sure they keep doing this but for all the no systems of innovation, they want to be able to do that natively in the cloud. And a SaaS offering is perfect for that. So we really try to help make it easy for customers, try to help them to manage any type of system they have from more legacy or more traditional systems to brand new serverless technologies and do it in a way that makes sense, whether it's on-prem or SaaS. >> Right, so in that hybrid multi-cloud environment which so many businesses are living in and as you talked about, I like your take on legacy versus sort of existing and sort of maybe business building foundational technologies that were essential at the time. So that hybrid multi-cloud world is just something that many companies are living in whether it's strategically, whether it's by, you know, organically by acquisition. In terms of having that workload automation across on-prem, public cloud, private cloud. Talk to me about how this is like aligning, I'm thinking like the DevOps folks with the lines of business. Because they all want to be driving towards business outcomes. And especially right now, it's about how can we keep pivoting our business as the world is changing to be successful and to be meeting our customer's demands where they want them to be met. >> It's a very very good point because the business requirement in many cases is really around agility. How can we move faster? And all those things we talked about, whether it's going into cloud or going into DevOps, or going into machine learning, it's about agility. It's agility on infrastructure or agility on the application architecture or agility on how we drive value out of data. So the business wants to move fast. At the same time, we have the requirement for stability, reliability, governance. Many industries are very, very regulated. If you're in the financial services industry, you spend a tremendous amount of time on dealing with regulation and compliance. So one of the things that we really try to do to help customers accelerate innovation is really help them incorporate everything that we do into the DevOps model, right? But do it in a smart way so that they can create automation rules, they can create everything that has to do with application, using code, right? It's jobs as code. So all the flow, all the definitions, all, everything that we do is all managed as code and the developers can store it as part of their, use DevOps tool chain. But there's an element there that allows the more traditional elements of the it organization to drive standards, to drive compliance, to drive policies to drive rules, that it has to be validated against before it goes into production. But what that does is it allows, it makes the developer, it makes it easier for a developer to really make sure that, as soon as they build the application, it is going to be compliant with all those policies. So it's not like they do all of that and roll it on, they do all these beautiful DevOps in tests and when it needs to go into production, it's close to a screeching halt because ops need to look at it and goes, wow, no, you need to change this, this, this, this, this and that, right? They're able to make sure it's all compliant from the get-go, which is really really valuable and allow companies to really accelerate their transformation, which is what everybody wants to do to drive the business outcomes. >> Exactly. We're looking for that, that catalyst or those catalysts that really facilitate businesses not just surviving today but really becoming the winners of tomorrow. So talk to me Gur, about the BMC and AWS, we talked about sort of this multi-cloud environment, the move with Control-M into SAS, what are you guys doing with AWS? So when we decided to move into SaaS, we said, we have to host our solution center. And it's important that we support multiple clouds before, like you could use Control-M on prem and use it to drive workloads that run in AWS or Azure or GCP, or you name it or private clouds for that matter all the way down to the mainframe. But when we were saying, we're going to roll Control-M out in SaaS, we said, we have to host it somewhere and we have to have a partner that's going to help us. I have an amazing team of developers that are the best, bar none in writing on-prem code. And they are going to be trading SaaS code for the first time. And we just found it that Amazon AWS with their SaaS factory, with the network of partners, with the tools was just a really really valuable way for us to accelerate that process. AWS has distinct that they call SaaS Factory which really helped us think through how we code some things, how to properly think about security, how to properly think about availability zones, how to properly think about so many things that are absolutely critical when you go into the SaaS world. So it really helped us accelerate the process. They also have a great network of partners that we're able to leverage and truly been a great partnership. >> So Control-M, Helix Control-M hosted on AWS. Talk to me about a customer situation. Now, for example, BMC customer, AWS environment needing to really drive their business forward, get that control and that visibility across their entire environment. How do you all work together, customer BMC, AWS? >> Great question. If they're an existing BMC customer, then they could simply talk to us, We can help them and we can introduce AWS where it's relevant or where they have some questions about how to work with the cloud. And many of our customers have a lot of experience with us in the on-prem world and they're choosing AWS as their cloud partner and so that's just a natural evolution and that's a super easy situation. There are cases where we actually work with AWS and AWS, as they work with customers to digitally transformed their environment, go and say, you could actually benefit from this. So there've been cases where we've actually worked together with AWS on some of those customer situations. Now we are in early days, right, the product is going to go GA December 1st. So right now we have about a dozen customers in what we call the early access program that we have not yet rolled this as generally available to the general public but the early integration, early work that we've done with AWS, not just on the technical side but across the ecosystem has been great. >> So go to market direct, go to market also through AWS. There's customers in that early access program, some of the things I'm thinking about when you're talking about what you guys are enabling is operational efficiencies, cost efficiencies. >> Absolutely. >> Anything that you can give us from one of those customers that's in early access, big business outcomes that they're achieving? >> I think the most fundamental aha moment for me, talking to the early access customers was, when we're thinking on-prem, we're thinking, okay, you know customer buys something, and we don't really cheap CDs, right, they download it. But you're thinking of time to value that's measured the days, sometimes weeks. And when we did the first proof of value with some of the early access customers, they didn't want to get into all the technical capabilities of the product at first, but the fact that they were able from the moment they got the welcome to BMC Control-M email, to the point that they were able to actually run jobs and drive value from the product in less than 10 minutes. That was eye opening for them and frankly, eye opening for me because I realized that the way you think about is different. because the fact that you can start to driving value within 10 minutes of getting your, welcome to BMC helix Control-M email, is just phenomenal. It's something that nobody could really accomplish with an on-prem environment. >> We've been talking about time to value for a long, long, long time. But I think in the context of today's world it's different 'cause as we saw when this pandemic first started, there was massive pivot. Businesses are pivoting and pivoting and pivoting. It's not just the one time, but it was really in the beginning I think about keeping the lights on and survival. Now it's as we get into this, and as we expect certain parts of this to be permanent in terms of how we work is changing, how we deliver services to customers that consumer demand is there in the consumer space, it's there in the it world as well. But like give me some nuggets of, what's of value to say like a higher education, like a university for example, is it being able to get students online faster? I'm just kind of looking for that silver nugget of value in a contextual setting. >> Let me give you an example from, actually let's, I'm going to pick an example from a really old industry, like a company that's been around for over a hundred years, right? So they've been around since before the mainframe, right? They build farming equipment, they build tractors, they build trucks. And every one of those has hundreds and thousands of sensors that collect data. So if you think about it now, this is a company that's been around for over a hundred years and never thought of itself as a technology company, but now they collect all this sensor data, they aggregate it, they try to make sense out of it. And then not only do they try to figure out, hey, you're going to have, one of your gaskets in the engine's going to to blow. They also kind of integrate that to some of the more legacy applications where they store customer data and parts information and dealer networks. So they can send the owner or the operator of the vehicle, an email saying, we can tell that your gasket is going to blow in the coming week, here are three dealers in your area that have that part on hand and are certified to make that repair, Would you like us to schedule an appointment? And they were able to reduce unplanned vehicle downtime by 40%. Now think of this, what this really means is that revenue producing assets are working more, more efficiently. Now, whether this is farm equipment, or, again, I'm deliberately picking old line industries to kind of make the point. So whether it's it's farming equipment or oil pipelines and oil Wells, right that if you have your revenue producing assets running at the higher uptime, that is a business outcome that everybody loves. >> Absolutely. I always loved those stories of traditional businesses that you talked about, who've really embraced digital transformation, done it in a smart way. But last question for you, that's a cultural shift. I'd love to just get your perspectives on the conversations that you're having with customers now, as you work with companies like that, like the traditional historical businesses, how quickly are they able to adapt their cultures and align those IT and business folks so that they don't get you swept by a newer fresher company born in the cloud that maybe has more agility and more willingness to take risks. >> One of our core beliefs of BMC is that companies are evolving into what we call the autonomous digital enterprise. That's a big transformation that the companies go through. And there are several tenants then on what it takes to really become an autonomous digital enterprise and you don't necessarily make progress on all of them at the same time. But one of those, as an example is enterprise DevOps, right? How do you read a drive agility, not just in your DevOps development processes but across how you think about it as an enterprise, right? Part of it is the data driven business, right? So the example we just gave, is how you really use data and turn it into insight and actually drive actionability, based on what you can really get from data. Which if you think about it makes so much sense, but it's not that easy to do and it requires you to also have these enterprise DevOps mindset as you innovate. There's many things, right? One of those things is automation everywhere, right? But at the end of the day we talk about automation. The more you automate, the more you could actually free up valuable resources to go do things that are high value. So there's plenty of elements to it but we believe, it's one of our core fundamental beliefs of BMC that enterprises are evolving and will continue to evolve to become autonomous digital enterprises. They will have to be digital, they will have to rely on technology to really survive and thrive in the decades to come. And we just want to be we with AWS, with BMC Control-M, Helix Control-M, just want to help them succeed in that mission. >> As a facilitator at that autonomous digital enterprise, well, Gur, it's been just a pleasure to have you on the program. Thanks for joining me today and sharing with us what BMC and AWS are doing together and how you're helping those organizations become the autonomous digital enterprise. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much. For Gur Steif, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE. (soft music)

(upbeat electro music) >> Hi and welcome to another CUBE Conversation. This one from BMC Helix's Immersion Days, Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. I'm Peter Burris. As we think about what organizations have to do over the next few years, imagine a world in which technology's being applied to generating revenue where customer experience is dependent upon technology, where your overall operational fabric and framework and likelihood of staying in business is tied to how well your technology plant works. That's where we're going and bringing an IT capability that's capable of supporting and sustaining those demands on business is an absolutely essential thing for businesses of all side. Fundamental, we have to think about how digital services that's delivering those new sources of revenue, new experiences and operations management which is ensuring that the predictability and certainty of how operations work is at the heart of many of the changes within IT today. Got a great guest to talk about that. Vidya Srinivasan is the Product Strategy and Marketing Executive at BMC Software. Vidya, welcome back to the CUBE. >> Pleasure to be here. >> So I said a lot upfront but lets start by getting the simple update. Where is BMC Helix today? >> Yeah, so Peter you were there for our first launch last year. I think about a year and a half ago. So since then obviously we've come a long way. We've onboarded a lot of customers, existing customers as well as new logos. So we are at a point where our customers are happy with Helix. They want to see more. They're working with us to roll out chat bots, really implementing a lot of our AI automation technologies. And as you heard today, eighteen months in, we now have Helix kind of expanded into the ITOM world. So we are actually bringing together the conversions of ITSM and ITOM with our Helix platform. So now officially, Helix is able to support a lot of the IT operations management functions that include monitoring , that include remediation, that include capacity and cost optimization. So it's really bringing together the two worlds of IT. That's really a foundation for a lot of our IT organizations. So we are very happy to announce it today at the Immersion Day Events and we are looking forward to a great update probably in the next six months. Back with you. >> Well one of the many challenges that an IT organization faces is that the nature of the assess that they're trying to generate returns on or changing away from hardware up into often software defining for structure and software and data as well. And that's one of the catalysts for why this ITOM/ITSM conversions is starting to happen. So we have had these people in silos. What kind of tensions is that generating as businesses try to deploy and utilize their IT in new and expressive and innovative ways? >> Yeah that's a great question. When we talk about the foundation of anything to do with IT, right, is knowing what you have. And as people heard in the keynote today, it's turning your unknowns to knowns, right? A big part of the challenge with IT is not knowing what you have. So discovery, as you said, is one of the foundational solutions we have within the Helix Suite that helps customers discover what they have whether it's as assets, it could be software, especially in a software world. So really understanding what you have and then being able to proactively and predictively monitor those assets, knowing what vulnerabilities you have, being able to automatically remediate those, and ultimately it's delivering the ultimate service experience to the end customer. So that's where Helix as a whole with Discover, Monitor, Service, Re Media and Optimize gives you the whole good handle on what you have and be able to ultimately provide the service of the future that we all as consumers in our day to day lives expect, we'll start expecting in our work lives. >> Well there has historically been some tension between the ITOM people and the ITSM people. They've been very strong siloed, each intent on optimizing their own capabilities. That has undermined business in many respects and certainly undermined the IT mission because a lot of people look at IT as being the problem in large measure because they have been throwing information back over the fence and sometimes at each other. So in your experience, now Helix has been out there for a year and a half. In your experience, how are ITOM and ITSM groups starting to work better together? Utilizing tooling that's not built for just one but is actually built for the idea, the promise of a greater more converged set of functions? >> Yeah so I think the tug of ITSM and ITOM organizations continue to exist and the convergence starts happening when the organization starts starting to mature in their life cycles. So let's take a simple example of a ticket. You as an end user open a service request, it goes to a service desk, somebody picks it up, and ultimately if that ticket is associated with an asset or a service that's running somewhere and the actual Cloud instance or something is broken, that's a perfect example of an end user, an agent in an ITSM scenario and an IT operations person having to all work together to make the customer happy. So that is a typical scenario in every organization and every organization has multiple service desks and multiple lines of business, not just IT issues. So making sure that through our solutions, making sure that we can minimize the existence of IT silos is a big part of what Helix brings to the table. And as we rule out the capabilities, whether you call them Discover, you know, the five capabilities that we outlined or whatever you might be referring to within the organization. It is important to make sure that the ultimate platform that brings them together is seamlessly integrated, whether it's all on one physical platform or through integration strategies across other tools in the industry, but that's kind of the intent of bringing together these two worlds. >> But at least the data is working together. >> Exactly. >> So I want to highlight one of the things you said and why it's so important we start thinking about this differently. You noted the idea of a user, an ITSM or a Service Management professional and then someone who's on the operations side doing configurations or provisioning of resources. When that person that started that off, who generated that ticket, is an employee we have certain degree of control over how fast we can service them. When we start talking about that user being a customer, now we're really talking about service experience. We're really talking about the brand. We're really talking about revenue. How is the emergence of a new class of users, being customers and increasingly using things like Robotic Process Automation, other forms of software, that are generating these kinds of requirements, altering the demand for some of these advanced tools? >> Yeah there's quite a bit of things you touched in that question so from an end user standpoint, automation comes in various forms and obviously from an end user standpoint it's this channel of preference and that's where leveraging technologies like chat bots from an end user experience standpoint, being able to use your phone, it could be your tablet, whatever it might be or your voice assistance through your phone, all of those are things that customers are expecting because you know, that's how I communicate on a day to day basis so it's nothing new. On the RPA and the automation side on the back end of things there's definitely this notion of augmented, I know a lot of our speakers spoke about this earlier, this notion of augmented intelligence that we all need to kind of embrace in order for us to deliver that end user experience and end user doesn't have to be B2B. It can be B2E, B2C, whatever it might be. At some point at least in this world we are kind of getting to a point where it doesn't matter whether it's a B2B, B2C, or B2E. It's everybody is an end user and there is no delineation in terms of the experience that anybody expects. So that's kind of what we expect to transcend into the back office whether it's IT service desk or if it's the IT operation's persona. Being able to discover or scan things from your chat bot, from your tablet, instead of having a honking machine that you normally think of when you think of a knock. So those are all things I think are sort of going to be erased in terms of what we think of IT ops. as we look into the next three to five years. So that's the experience that I think, it's not just limited to an end user but across the IT organization. What does that experience look like for all the various personas to coexist and collaborate within the construct of an enterprise. >> So, you again, have been out with customers. Either taking remedy customers and bringing them to Helix or brand new customers and bringing them to Helix. What are some of the patterns of success that you're starting to see? Where does it tend to start? What kinds of outcomes are they achieving? Where do you see your happiest customers being? >> I think it's spectrum of customers right, so it's a range. There are customers who are at an early stage in terms of just thinking about how to move to Cloud so those customers are simply thinking about okay I've been using your OnPrem Solution Remedy for a while and we are at a point where we need to move it to in to a SaaS model. So there are customers who are just looking to lift and shift and move to a SaaS model. There are other customers who, it's a no-brainer, they started with us in a SaaS model and then now they're looking to leverage more of the NextGen experience, so they are looking at chat bots, they're looking at RPA bots and working with us on that. And then there are customers who are just looking to integrate with us on different fronts. They might be using other tools and then they're looking at leveraging our integration capabilities or whatever it might be so there's a variety of different customers in different stages but obviously a big part of this shift we are seeing that's common across these is the move to SaaS and the fact that they don't want to worry about running their operations as much as they want to reinvent and innovative and grow. So that's the common theme that we're seeing across the variety of customers that we're helping today. >> Vidya Srinivasan, Product Strategy, Marketing Executive, BMC Software, once again thanks for being on the CUBE. >> Thank you very much for having me. >> And from the BMC Helix Immersion Days at Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California, I'm Peter Burris. Once again this has been a CUBE Conversation. Until next time. (upbeat electro music)

>> Live from Midtown Manhattan, it's theCUBE. Covering BigData New York City 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsors. (calm electronic music) >> Basil Faruqui, who's the Solutions Marketing Manger at BMC, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, good to be back on theCUBE. >> So first of all, heard you guys had a tough time in Houston, so hope everything's gettin' better, and best wishes to everyone down in-- >> We're definitely in recovery mode now. >> Yeah and so hopefully that can get straightened out quick. What's going on with BMC? Give us a quick update in context to BigData NYC. What's happening, what is BMC doing in the big data space now, the AI space now, the IOT space now, the cloud space? >> So like you said that, you know, the data link space, the IOT space, the AI space, there are four components of this entire picture that literally haven't changed since the beginning of computing. If you look at those four components of a data pipeline it's ingestion, storage, processing, and analytics. What keeps changing around it, is the infrastructure, the types of data, the volume of data, and the applications that surround it. And the rate of change has picked up immensely over the last few years with Hadoop coming in to the picture, public cloud providers pushing it. It's obviously creating a number of challenges, but one of the biggest challenges that we are seeing in the market, and we're helping costumers address, is a challenge of automating this and, obviously, the benefit of automation is in scalability as well and reliability. So when you look at this rather simple data pipeline, which is now becoming more and more complex, how do you automate all of this from a single point of control? How do you continue to absorb new technologies, and not re-architect our automation strategy every time, whether it's it Hadoop, whether it's bringing in machine learning from a cloud provider? And that is the issue we've been solving for customers-- >> Alright let me jump into it. So, first of all, you mention some things that never change, ingestion, storage, and what's the third one? >> Ingestion, storage, processing and eventually analytics. >> And analytics. >> Okay so that's cool, totally buy that. Now if your move and say, hey okay, if you believe that standard, but now in the modern era that we live in, which is complex, you want breath of data, but also you want the specialization when you get down to machine limits highly bounded, that's where the automation is right now. We see the trend essentially making that automation more broader as it goes into the customer environments. >> Correct >> How do you architect that? If I'm a CXO, or I'm a CDO, what's in it for me? How do I architect this? 'Cause that's really the number one thing, as I know what the building blocks are, but they've changed in their dynamics to the market place. >> So the way I look at it, is that what defines success and failure, and particularly in big data projects, is your ability to scale. If you start a pilot, and you spend three months on it, and you deliver some results, but if you cannot roll it out worldwide, nationwide, whatever it is, essentially the project has failed. The analogy I often given is Walmart has been testing the pick-up tower, I don't know if you've seen. So this is basically a giant ATM for you to go pick up an order that you placed online. They're testing this at about a hundred stores today. Now if that's a success, and Walmart wants to roll this out nation wide, how much time do you think their IT department's going to have? Is this a five year project, a ten year project? No, and the management's going to want this done six months, ten months. So essentially, this is where automation becomes extremely crucial because it is now allowing you to deliver speed to market and without automation, you are not going to be able to get to an operational stage in a repeatable and reliable manner. >> But you're describing a very complex automation scenario. How can you automate in a hurry without sacrificing the details of what needs to be? In other words, there would seem to call for repurposing or reusing prior automation scripts and rules, so forth. How can the Walmart's of the world do that fast, but also do it well? >> Yeah so we do it, we go about it in two ways. One is that out of the box we provide a lot of pre-built integrations to some of the most commonly used systems in an enterprise. All the way from the Mainframes, Oracles, SAPs, Hadoop, Tableaus of the world, they're all available out of the box for you to quickly reuse these objects and build an automated data pipeline. The other challenge we saw, and particularly when we entered the big data space four years ago was that the automation was something that was considered close to the project becoming operational. Okay, and that's where a lot of rework happened because developers had been writing their own scripts using point solutions, so we said alright, it's time to shift automation left, and allow companies to build automations and artifact very early in the developmental life cycle. About a month ago, we released what we call Control-M Workbench, its essentially a community edition of Control-M, targeted towards developers so that instead of writing their own scripts, they can use Control-M in a completely offline manner, without having to connect to an enterprise system. As they build, and test, and iterate, they're using Control-M to do that. So as the application progresses through the development life cycle, and all of that work can then translate easily into an enterprise edition of Control-M. >> Just want to quickly define what shift left means for the folks that might not know software methodologies, they don't think >> Yeah, so. of left political, left or right. >> So, we're not shifting Control-M-- >> Alt-left, alt-right, I mean, this is software development, so quickly take a minute and explain what shift left means, and the importance of it. >> Correct, so if you think of software development as a straight line continuum, you've got, you will start with building some code, you will do some testing, then unit testing, then user acceptance testing. As it moves along this chain, there was a point right before production where all of the automation used to happen. Developers would come in and deliver the application to Ops and Ops would say, well hang on a second, all this Crontab, and these other point solutions we've been using for automation, that's not what we use in production, and we need you to now go right in-- >> So test early and often. >> Test early and often. So the challenge was the developers, the tools they used were not the tools that were being used on the production end of the site. And there was good reason for it, because developers don't need something really heavy and with all the bells and whistles early in the development lifecycle. Now Control-M Workbench is a very light version, which is targeted at developers and focuses on the needs that they have when they're building and developing it. So as the application progresses-- >> How much are you seeing waterfall-- >> But how much can they, go ahead. >> How much are you seeing waterfall, and then people shifting left becoming more prominent now? What percentage of your customers have moved to Agile, and shifting left percentage wise? >> So we survey our customers on a regular basis, and the last survey showed that eighty percent of the customers have either implemented a more continuous integration delivery type of framework, or are in the process of doing it, And that's the other-- >> And getting close to a 100 as possible, pretty much. >> Yeah, exactly. The tipping point is reached. >> And what is driving. >> What is driving all is the need from the business. The days of the five year implementation timelines are gone. This is something that you need to deliver every week, two weeks, and iteration. >> Iteration, yeah, yeah. And we have also innovated in that space, and the approach we call jobs as code, where you can build entire complex data pipelines in code format, so that you can enable the automation in a continuous integration and delivery framework. >> I have one quick question, Jim, and I'll let you take the floor and get a word in soon, but I have one final question on this BMC methodology thing. You guys have a history, obviously BMC goes way back. Remember Max Watson CEO, and Bob Beach, back in '97 we used to chat with him, dominated that landscape. But we're kind of going back to a systems mindset. The question for you is, how do you view the issue of this holy grail, the promised land of AI and machine learning, where end-to-end visibility is really the goal, right? At the same time, you want bounded experiences at root level so automation can kick in to enable more activity. So there's a trade-off between going for the end-to-end visibility out of the gate, but also having bounded visibility and data to automate. How do you guys look at that market? Because customers want the end-to-end promise, but they don't want to try to get there too fast. There's a diseconomies of scale potentially. How do you talk about that? >> Correct. >> And that's exactly the approach we've taken with Control-M Workbench, the Community Edition, because earlier on you don't need capabilities like SLA management and forecasting and automated promotion between environments. Developers want to be able to quickly build and test and show value, okay, and they don't need something that is with all the bells and whistles. We're allowing you to handle that piece, in that manner, through Control-M Workbench. As things progress and the application progresses, the needs change as well. Well now I'm closer to delivering this to the business, I need to be able to manage this within an SLA, I need to be able to manage this end-to-end and connect this to other systems of record, and streaming data, and clickstream data, all of that. So that, we believe that it doesn't have to be a trade off, that you don't have to compromise speed and quality for end-to-end visibility and enterprise grade automation. >> You mentioned trade offs, so the Control-M Workbench, the developer can use it offline, so what amount of testing can they possibly do on a complex data pipeline automation when the tool's offline? I mean it seems like the more development they do offline, the greater the risk that it simply won't work when they go into production. Give us a sense for how they mitigate, the mitigation risk in using Control-M Workbench. >> Sure, so we spend a lot of time observing how developers work, right? And very early in the development stage, all they're doing is working off of their Mac or their laptop, and they're not really connected to any. And that is where they end up writing a lot of scripts, because whatever code business logic they've written, the way they're going to make it run is by writing scripts. And that, essentially, becomes the problem, because then you have scripts managing more scripts, and as the application progresses, you have this complex web of scripts and Crontabs and maybe some opensource solutions, trying to simply make all of this run. And by doing this on an offline manner, that doesn't mean that they're losing all of the other Control-M capabilities. Simply, as the application progresses, whatever automation that the builtin Control-M can seamlessly now flow into the next stage. So when you are ready to take an application into production, there's essentially no rework required from an automation perspective. All of that, that was built, can now be translated into the enterprise-grade Control M, and that's where operations can then go in and add the other artifacts, such as SLA management and forecasting and other things that are important from an operational perspective. >> I'd like to get both your perspectives, 'cause, so you're like an analyst here, so Jim, I want you guys to comment. My question to both of you would be, lookin' at this time in history, obviously in the BMC side we mention some of the history, you guys are transforming on a new journey in extending that capability of this world. Jim, you're covering state-of-the-art AI machine learning. What's your take of this space now? Strata Data, which is now Hadoop World, which is Cloud Air went public, Hortonworks is now public, kind of the big, the Hadoop guys kind of grew up, but the world has changed around them, it's not just about Hadoop anymore. So I'd like to get your thoughts on this kind of perspective, that we're seeing a much broader picture in big data in NYC, versus the Strata Hadoop show, which seems to be losing steam, but I mean in terms of the focus. The bigger focus is much broader, horizontally scalable. And your thoughts on the ecosystem right now? >> Let the Basil answer fist, unless Basil wants me to go first. >> I think that the reason the focus is changing, is because of where the projects are in their lifecycle. Now what we're seeing is most companies are grappling with, how do I take this to the next level? How do I scale? How do I go from just proving out one or two use cases to making the entire organization data driven, and really inject data driven decision making in all facets of decision making? So that is, I believe what's driving the change that we're seeing, that now you've gone from Strata Hadoop to being Strata Data, and focus on that element. And, like I said earlier, the difference between success and failure is your ability to scale and operationalize. Take machine learning for an example. >> Good, that's where there's no, it's not a hype market, it's show me the meat on the bone, show me scale, I got operational concerns of security and what not. >> And machine learning, that's one of the hottest topics. A recent survey I read, which pulled a number of data scientists, it revealed that they spent about less than 3% of their time in training the data models, and about 80% of their time in data manipulation, data transformation and enrichment. That is obviously not the best use of a data scientist's time, and that is exactly one of the problems we're solving for our customers around the world. >> That needs to be automated to the hilt. To help them >> Correct. to be more productive, to deliver faster results. >> Ecosystem perspective, Jim, what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, everything that Basil said, and I'll just point out that many of the core uses cases for AI are automation of the data pipeline. It's driving machine learning driven predictions, classifications, abstractions and so forth, into the data pipeline, into the application pipeline to drive results in a way that is contextually and environmentally aware of what's goin' on. The history, historical data, what's goin' on in terms of current streaming data, to drive optimal outcomes, using predictive models and so forth, in line to applications. So really, fundamentally then, what's goin' on is that automation is an artifact that needs to be driven into your application architecture as a repurposable resource for a variety of-- >> Do customers even know what to automate? I mean, that's the question, what do I-- >> You're automating human judgment. You're automating effort, like the judgments that a working data engineer makes to prepare data for modeling and whatever. More and more that can be automated, 'cause those are pattern structured activities that have been mastered by smart people over many years. >> I mean we just had a customer on with a Glass'Gim CSK, with that scale, and his attitude is, we see the results from the users, then we double down and pay for it and automate it. So the automation question, it's an option question, it's a rhetorical question, but it just begs the question, which is who's writing the algorithms as machines get smarter and start throwing off their own real-time data? What are you looking at? How do you determine? You're going to need machine learning for machine learning? Are you going to need AI for AI? Who writes the algorithms >> It's actually, that's. for the algorithm? >> Automated machine learning is a hot, hot not only research focus, but we're seeing it more and more solution providers, like Microsoft and Google and others, are goin' deep down, doubling down in investments in exactly that area. That's a productivity play for data scientists. >> I think the data markets going to change radically in my opinion. I see you're startin' to some things with blockchain and some other things that are interesting. Data sovereignty, data governance are huge issues. Basil, just give your final thoughts for this segment as we wrap this up. Final thoughts on data and BMC, what should people know about BMC right now? Because people might have a historical view of BMC. What's the latest, what should they know? What's the new Instagram picture of BMC? What should they know about you guys? >> So I think what I would say people should know about BMC is that all the work that we've done over the last 25 years, in virtually every platform that came before Hadoop, we have now innovated to take this into things like big data and cloud platforms. So when you are choosing Control-M as a platform for automation, you are choosing a very, very mature solution, an example of which is Navistar. Their CIO's actually speaking at the Keno tomorrow. They've had Control-M for 15, 20 years, and they've automated virtually every business function through Control-M. And when they started their predictive maintenance project, where they're ingesting data from about 300,000 vehicles today to figure out when this vehicle might break, and to predict maintenance on it. When they started their journey, they said that they always knew that they were going to use Control-M for it, because that was the enterprise standard, and they knew that they could simply now extend that capability into this area. And when they started about three, four years ago, they were ingesting data from about 100,000 vehicles. That has now scaled to over 325,000 vehicles, and they have no had to re-architect their strategy as they grow and scale. So I would say that is one of the key messages that we are taking to market, is that we are bringing innovation that spans over 25 years, and evolving it-- >> Modernizing it, basically. >> Modernizing it, and bringing it to newer platforms. >> Well congratulations, I wouldn't call that a pivot, I'd call it an extensibility issue, kind of modernizing kind of the core things. >> Absolutely. >> Thanks for coming and sharing the BMC perspective inside theCUBE here, on BigData NYC, this is the theCUBE, I'm John Furrier. Jim Kobielus here in New York city. More live coverage, for three days we'll be here, today, tomorrow and Thursday, and BigData NYC, more coverage after this short break. (calm electronic music) (vibrant electronic music)

(upbeat music) [Announcer] Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Re:Invent, 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hello, welcome back here to Las Vegas. We're at the Sands Expo in Hall D, perhaps a friend in the area, come on by, say hi to Justin Warren and John Walls here, on the set of theCUBE, joined here by David Cramer, who is the President of Digital Services Operations for BMC software. David, good to see you. >> Good to see you. Thanks for having me. >> All the way from Austin, Texas, deep in the Lone Star state. >> Yes sir. >> All right, so everyone's going to the cloud, right? That's obviously, why, you know, why so many people are here. What do you see it in terms of how they get in there, what are they doing there, and who hasn't made that move yet, and why not? >> Yeah, it's a great question. So a lot of people are in different spots in this journey. Some people are just starting out with the journey to cloud, which is surprising, but as popular as cloud is there are still some companies out there who just haven't made the move. Sometimes for regulatory reasons, sometimes for cost reasons, or sometimes they just don't have the business need, or they just don't see the opportunity. Then the majority of the customers I talk to are somewhere on that path. They've either begun to move applications or they're actually moving applications and building new applications to take advantage of the cloud. And so for us as a company, we see a tremendous opportunity to help our customers figure out the right way to move to cloud. Because it wasn't that long ago, just a few years back, when you heard people talking about cloud first, lift and shift, I'm moving everything to the cloud. I think people have stepped back from that and said, well, wait a minute, let's think about what cloud infrastructure, cloud services can provide us, and then let's optimize what we put in the cloud because certainly you can spend a lot of money using cloud services if you're not too careful. >> Yeah, you hit a big word there. Optimize. Right, it's about, it's kind of fun to just start throwing, I wouldn't say, mud on the wall, but just making the big move and also you realize you're into it for a little more money than maybe you thought you should have been. >> Absolutely, and there's a cultural phenomenon that's driving this, and that is DevOps and the desire to release more software to get new products, new features, innovation into the market means that you have to let your teams be autonomous. You can't have a command and control structure where every decision comes from the top. But that autonomy creates an opportunity for waste, creates an opportunity for mistakes, misconfigurations, security issues. So one of the reasons that I mention the everybody moves everything there and then says, wait a minute. Maybe that wasn't the right move, maybe we should be cloud smart instead of cloud first. >> Yeah. I do speak a lot with developers and companies in that ecosystem and there's a lot of talk about replatforming, taking applications that we had on our existing on-side infrastructure and then replatforming that to cloud because cloud requires doing things in a completely new way. Whereas, if you just take the old thing that you had, and just lift and shift and move it to cloud it tends not to work out quite so well. We're noticing a trend and we've heard that a lot today here at this show that people aren't moving everything to cloud and we now have a change in Amazon's view of the world, that actually, cloud is not the one true way, you are actually allowed to have some stuff on-site now. Some things can stay there and that's okay. So what is BMC doing with customers to help them decide which things should be moved and which things should stay where they are. >> It's a great point you brought up, because there were a lot of people who were saying let's rearchitect for the cloud and the applications that they were looking at weren't going to benefit from the elasticity or the things that cloud environment provides. And I've talked to lots of CIOs who will tell you I can deliver a virtual machine for a lot less money than the virtual machines the cloud vendors deliver. >> Yeah. >> So to answer the question, BMC has a rich history in the data center. So one of the first things we learn is that our performance data, our capacity data, and the information we have about the application architectures and the way they live in the data center, whether that be physical infrastructure, virtual infrastructure, containers, we can help a lot to identify what are the high value assets where you can save a lot of money by migrating them to a cloud. What are the assets that aren't going to save you a lot of money and you're just going to lift and shift and not get those benefits. So I say that from a performance and capacity optimization standpoint, that's one of the starting places. A second is application discovery and dependency mapping. One of the challenges in IT has long been is what do I have and how is it configured. If I'm going to move something to the cloud, I sure need to know what it looks like in my data center and we provide a lot of help there with our world class discovery technologies. >> Right. Another thing about moving to the cloud that we've heard with a bunch of previous guests here on theCUBE today, is security. >> Yes. >> Security is a fundamental thing that we have to get right, particularly when we move to cloud. So what are some of the things of BMC, what's your security story, Dave? >> Yeah, it's a very important part of the strategy and one that we developed because we began this journey ourselves about five years ago, as we looked at our customers and the way they wanted to consume services. We said, well, shoot, we should be building new apps in Amazon environments and we actually have services that leverage Amazon Lambda. So, we then said great, now we have to learn about running cloud-hosted applications or cloud-native applications and how to secure them. So a lot of our solutions came from our own learnings. Specifically our focus areas are around optimizing the security and configuration of the cloud infrastructure layer and the platform layer. A lot of customers don't realize the shared responsibility model that Amazon. They've done a great job of telling people about this model. But a lot of customers, like the ostrich in the sand, they're just not thinking, or they're not looking at it, and so they expect Amazon or someone else to take care of all these problems. And when you set up a service and Amazon, certainly, they're taking care of a lot of security but they're not securing the things that you put in that environment, your software, the middleware, the different services you connect together. So we're helping customers secure the configuration of those services, but we're also helping customers with spend, because one of the challenges we just talked about around DevOps and autonomy is if you give a developer access to Amazon and the suite of services they offer, it's like a kid in the candy store. And of course, they want gold-plated everything. I want the best environment with the best database, the most advanced services, and all that ends up costing a whole lot of money. >> Yeah, you got to put me in the candy store. That's exactly where I'm going. >> Right. >> Right. >> All right, so we've also been talking about volume, data volume, and how it kind of boggles the human mind now, right? >> Oh, yeah. >> And why automation is essential. You have to keep up. >> Huge part. >> Is it beyond our ability now to keep up with it as humans. >> I think, most people who we talk would agree that we're past human scale. You know, when you begin to look at the number of containers that services like Google Maps. If you do some research, they're spending up millions of containers every day and then spending them back down in some cases. So, you can't take old methods and old approaches to an environment like that where you're at hyper-scale some of the time, and you're not at hyper-scale other times. And so we've seen a huge shift in mindset. We used to talk about push button automation. 'Cause we've been selling automation in the data center, gosh, all the way back to the mainframe, BMC's been selling automation. But it was smart people figuring out what to automate and then hitting the button. What we're now seeing is trust, where they're allowing the automation routines to take over and actually run. Now in some cases that's driven by machine learning and really advanced algorithms. In other cases, it's very simple policy based. But we are seeing a big shift from I don't trust automation to gosh, I have to trust it. And I think some of that is based on Amazon themselves, with things like auto skill rules. >> It's still got to be hard to cede control like that when you're used to doing it yourself, and now to rely on another mechanism. That just runs against my nature. >> Yeah, and it runs against the DevOps cultural trend we talked about, where you're trying to let the teams be autonomous. Every CIO I've spoken to in the last five years cares about what they call guard rails or governance. They realize that it can't be top-down decision-making. They have to let the teams have some freedom, but they also realize that if they don't put up guard rails, and they don't restrict the choices, restrict the opportunity for mistakes, they're going to be in trouble from a cost or a security or even a performance perspective. >> Innovation is fabulous until you fall off a cliff and die. We do actually need to have a fence at the edge of that cliff. That would be a good plan. >> Well, yeah, if you talk to the DevOps teams themselves, one of the things I always like to ask is who are the ops guys in the room? And normally you have a bunch of developers, and you ask well, who cares about compliance. Nobody. They want to build cool new features. >> Right >> Who cares about code scanning and testing your software. Maybe one guy puts his hand up and says I'm the QA guy, or I'm the security guy. So there's also a cultural thing that we're seeing operations blend into these new models, and we're seeing operations teams who are classically central, IT-Ops teams, moving into the DevOps world, moving into the cloud-Ops world. >> We were just commenting before during the break about the nature of this show. And that IT pros, and your traditional infrastructure type people, they would be at different shows. They're all here now. >> They are. >> We are definitely seeing that real blend between what used to be purely developers, front-end software developers would be at this show. Now we have IT pros, we have all the infrastructure groups, we have all the companies. >> Security guys. >> Security guys. All of these people are now at this show, working together in that one team idea. >> Yeah, it's fascinating. We've talked a lot about ops everywhere. We've talked about development everywhere. Because if you go to any large enterprise, the new IT operators they're trying to hire, all have development skills. They all have programing backgrounds. And they're all coming to shows like this because they're being tasked with this concept that BMC calls run and reinvent. You've got to continue to run your existing business. Well who better than the IT operators to do that. They've been doing that for years. But you've also got to reinvent, and you've got to compete, and who better to do that than our innovators, our developers, the people out front trying to create that innovation that will transform or game-change an industry. So it's fascinating >> Reinvent. I mean, that'd be a great name for a trade show. >> And I didn't even do that on purpose. (laughing) >> David, thank you for sharing your time with us and good luck on down the road. >> Great. Thanks a lot. >> David Kramer, joining us from BMC software. We will be back from re:Invent in just a moment. We're live here in Las Vegas. You're watching theCUBE. (lively music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back, we are live here in Las Vegas, located at the Sands. Day three of our coverage here at re:Invent. AWS starting to wrap things up, but still, I think, making a very major statement about the progress they're making in their making in their market. 45,000 plus attendees here, thousands of exhibitors and exhibit space being used here in hundreds of thousands of square footage. Sort of a reflection of the vibrancy of that market. I'm with James Kobielus, who's the lead analyst at Wikibon and we're joined, once again, second appearance on theCUBE in one day, how 'bout that for Nayaki Nayyar, who is the President of Digital Services Management at BMC. Glad to have you back, we appreciate the time. >> Thank you, John, thank you, Jim. Great to be here and I'm becoming a pro at this, right? >> You are. >> My second time of the day. >> We'll punch your card and you win a prize by being on theCUBE more than once a day. >> Twice in four hours, I mean, that's a pretty good track record. >> We'll pick up your toy, you know. >> Tell me about, first off, just your thought about the show in general. I mean, you've been in this environment for some time now, but I'm kind of curious what you think about what you're seeing here and the sense of how this thing's really taking off. >> So, first of all, it's just the energy, the vibe, the fun that we're having here is just amazing. But, I do want to drop to the keynote that Andy did yesterday, it's just phenomenal the pace at which AWS is innovating. Just to be releasing over 1300 features in a year, that is phenomenal. >> James: I think he said innovations in a year. >> Features a year. >> Did he say features, okay. >> Yeah, I think so. But, independent of that, I'm just saying the pace at which, and their model of new stuff that they're bringing to the market is just phenomenal. For customers like us, vendors, it's just phenomenal. >> We hear a lot about, I mean, it's the buzzword, digital transformation and all that. So, what does it really mean to service? What transformation is happening in that, what is that pushing you on that side of the fence to have to be thinking about now? >> You said the word, digital, and sometimes it's very hyper-used. And what we have done at BMC, since our core is service management, we have defined what service management looks like for our customers in this digital age. And we have defined it, because we were primarily in I.T. service management for the last 10-15 years, the future of the service management in this digital world is what we call cognitive service management. Where service management is no longer just reactive, it is proactive and it is also a conversational through various agents like chatbots, or Alexa or virtual agents. So, it's a complete transformation that we are experiencing and we are driving most of that change for our customers right now. >> And, of course, the word cognitive signals the fact that there's some artificial intelligence going on behind the scenes, possibly to drive that conversational UI. With that in mind, I believe that, at BMC, you are one of AWS's partners for Alexa for businesses, is that true? And you're bringing it into an I.T. service management context. That's sounds like an innovation, can you tell us more about that? >> Absolutely, so we announced partnership with AWS on multiple fronts. One of them is with Alexa, Alexa for Business, where we do integrate with Alexa for providing that end user experience. So, Alexa was known for consumer world, my son used it all the time. >> Tell me the temperature? >> But now, we are looking at how we could bring it into the enterprise world, especially to provide service to all employees. So that, you don't actually have to send an email or pick up the phone to call a service agent, now you can actually interact with Alexa or a chatbot to get any service you need. So that's what we call omni-channel experience for providing that experience for end users, employees, customers, partners, anyone. >> So, do you have, right now, any reference customers, it's so new? Or, can you give us a sense for how this capability is working in the field in terms of your testing? Do business people understand, or are they comfortable, with using essentially a consumer appliance as an interface to some serious business infrastructure? Like, being able to report a fault in a server, or whatnot. There's a risk there of bringing in a technology, like a consumer technology, before it's really been accepted as a potential business tool. Tell us how that's working. >> That's a very interesting. We are actually seeing a very fast pace at which customers are adopting it. As we speak, I have three customers I'm working with right now, who not only wants to use a chatbot, or a virtual agent, for providing service, not just to employees but to the end customers, also want to use Alexa inside their company for providing service to their employees. So, it's starting the journey, we already have the integration that is working with Alexa. Customers have gotten very excited about it, they're doing POCs, they're starting their journey. I think in the next couple of years, we'll see a huge uptake with customers wanting to do that across the board. >> Well, give me an example, if I'm working and I need to go to Alexa Business, how deep can I go? What kind of problems can be solved? And then, at what point where does that shut off and then we trip over to the human element? >> James: Don't forget where the A.I. fits in to the picture. If you could just have a little bit of the plumbing, not too much. >> So, let me give you like two segments, one is the experience through Alexa, the second one is, where does deep learning get embedded into the process. So, usually every company has level one, level two service desk agents who are taking the calls, are responding to emails for resetting passwords or fixing foreign issues, laptop issues. So, that level one, level two service desk process is what is being replaced through a chatbot or an Alexa. So, now you can take the routine kind of a task away from having a human respond to it, you can have Alexa or a chatbot respond, do that work. The second piece, for high-complex scenarios, is where it switches. So, being able to automatically switch between an Alexa to a live agent, is where the beauty comes in and how we handle the transition. It has all the historical interaction through the whole journey for the customer. >> But then, Alexa forwards any information it has gained from the conversations- >> That interaction history we call it. >> To a human being who takes it to the next step. >> Nayaki: So when I- >> Can a human kick it back to Alexa at some point? >> No, no, we haven't seen that go back. It's usually, level one, level two is where Alexa takes care and then level three is where the human takes care and goes forward. Now, the second piece, the A.I.-ML piece. In a service management, there are a lot of processes that are very, I would say, routine and very manual. Like, every ticket that comes in, customers have millions of tickets that come in on a periodic basis. Every ticket that comes in, how you assign the ticket to the right individual, log the ticket and categorize the ticket is a very labor intensive and expensive process. So, we are embedding deep learning capabilities into that so we can automate, customers can automate all of those. >> James: Natural language processing, is that? >> With NLP embedded into it. Now, customers can choose to use an NLP engine of their choice, like Watson, or Amazon, or Cortana. And then, that gets fed back into the service management process. >> In fact, that's consistent with what AWS is saying about the whole deep learning space. They are agnostic as to the underlying deep learning framework you use to build this logic, whether it be TensorFlow or MXNet, or whatever. So, what you're saying is very consistent with that sort of open framework for plugging deep learning, or A.I., into the, in this case, the business application. Very good. So, developers within your customer base, what are you doing, BMC, to get developers up to speed on what they'll need to do to build the skills to be able to drive this whole service management workflow? >> So, all this work that we're doing with, what we call these cognitive services, they're all micro services that we are built into our platform. That, not only we are using in our own applications, like in Remedy, like in, what we call digital workplace, but also we have made it available for all the developers, partners, ecosystems, to consume it in their own applications. Just like what Amazon is doing with their micro services strategy, we have micro services for every one of these processes that developers can now consume and build their own special use cases, or use cases that are very unique to their business or to their customers. >> So who, I mean we were talking about this before we started the interview, about invent versus innovation, so, on the innovation side, what's driving that? I mean, are these interactions that you're having with customers and so you're trying to absorb whatever that input is, that feedback? Or, are you innovating almost in a vacuum, or in space a little bit, and are providing tools that you think could get traction? >> No, in fact, no, we are not just dreaming in our labs and saying, "This is what we should go do." (laughing) >> James: Dreaming in our labs. >> That's not where the driver is. What's really happening, independent of the industry, you pick any industry like telcos or financial industry, any industry is going through a major transformation where they are under competitive pressure to provide a service at the highest efficiency, highest speed, at the lowest cost. So if I'm a bank, or if I'm a telco, when a customer calls me and they have an issue, the pace at which I provide the service, the speed, and the cost at which I provide that service, and the accuracy at which I provide that service, is my competitive advantage. So, that is what is actually driving the innovations that we are bringing to market. And, all the three things that I talked about, end user experience through bots or through virtual agents, how we are automating the processes inside the service management, and how we are also providing it for the developers. All these three, create a package for our customers in every one of those industries, to address the speed, the efficiency and the cost for their service management. >> John: Go ahead James. >> At this show, AWS, among their many announcements that are building on their A.I., they have a new product called, and it's related to this, the accuracy, it's called Amazon Comprehend. Which is able to build on Polly, their NLP, their Natural Language Processing, to be able to identify in a natural language, entities like, "Hey, my PC doesn't work "and I think it's the hard drive," those are entities. But, also identify sentiment, whether the customer is very angry, mildly miffed, and so forth. Conceivably, you could use, or your customers could use that information in building out skills that are more fine-grained in terms of handing off to level two or level three support, "Okay, we've identified with a high degree of confidence "that the problem might reside in this particular component "of the system, the customer is really out of joint, "you need to put somebody on this right away." So forth and so on. Any thoughts about possibly using this new functionality within the context of Alexa for Business as you were deploying it at BMC? In the future? Your thoughts? >> Absolutely, in fact that was what I was very excited about that, when they announced that. You know, in an NLP, NLP has been around for many years now and there's been a lot of experiments around NLP. >> The first patent for NLP was like in the late '50s. >> But the maturity of NLP now, and the pace at which, like Amazon, they're innovating is just phenomenal. And the real beauty of it would be, when an NLP engine can really become intelligent when it can understand the sentiment of the customer, when the customer is saying something, it should detect that the customer is angry, happy, or on the edge. We are not there yet, I'm really excited to see the announcements from AWS on the Comprehend side. If they really can deliver on that understanding sentiment, I think it would be phenomenal. >> I don't want to get us off the tracks, but it's a fascinating point. Because, as you know words, in a static environment can be misinterpreted one of 50,000 ways. So, how do you get this A.I. to apply to emotional pitch, tone, agitation? How do you recognize that? >> That is where NLP, the maturity of an NLP, is what's gonna be game changing in the long term. For it to be able to know what the underlying sentiment. >> Anger, excitement, joy, despair, I mean, all those things. "I've had enough," can be said many different ways. >> And that's when we'll switch to a live agent, if it's not able to do it, we will quickly switch to a live agent. (laughing) >> The bot gives up, right? (laughing) >> Or is it emotion threshold where a human being might be the best immediate front-line support. >> Just curious, it's fascinating. Well, thank you for the time, we certainly appreciate that. And, we promise, this'll be it for the day. (laughing) All right, no more CUBE duty. But, we certainly wish you all the best down the road. And, like you, I think we've certainly seen, and have a deeper appreciation for what's happening in this marketplace with what we've seen here this week. It was extraordinary. >> Fascinating. >> Thank you, John, it was a pleasure. And really excited to have two CUBE interviews in a day. >> John: How 'bout that? >> But, I think it's a great forum for us to get our message out and get the world to know what we are doing as BMC and the innovations we're beginning. >> We're excited to talk to real innovators in the business world, so, all power to you. >> Thanks for the time. >> Thank you. >> Nice to meet you. Back with more, we are live here at re:Invent AWS in Las Vegas. Back with more live here on theCUBE right after this break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas it's theCube covering AWS re:Invent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey! Welcome back to theCube's continuing coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017 from beautiful Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin with my co host Keith Townsend. We're very excited to welcome back Cube alumni Nayaki Nayyar from BMC. The president of Digital Services Management. Welcome back to theCube! >> Thank you Lisa. Thank you Keith. Really excited to be here. I've been here before and I love this forum and how you are able to scale this and get our word around the world on this forum; thank you. >> Well fantastic. So one of the first things I wanted to ask you, you know, we hear buzz words all the time. Every event that we're at no matter what and I wanna know what is Multi-Cloud? What does it mean to your customers? Or do they say "Nayaki, what is Mutli-Cloud? "Do we need one?" >> Yes. So you know that's a very good question. Every customer I go talk to the number one challenge they have is what we call this Multi-Cloud challenge. Because now customers are evolving their workloads. We heard from Andy how everyone is evolving the workloads into cloud. But it's not one cloud. They have hybrid clouds, managed clouds, private clouds you name it. The privilege of clouds is becoming a norm now. And how you help them manage the complexity of these Multi-Cloud is what is very unique for BMC and all the technology that they are releasing in the market is that's our sweet spot right now. >> So when a customer comes and says "help me navigate this process." Where do you start? >> Yeah, so you know the number one. You'd be surprised. When customers are planning the migration or they're in the journey of migrating their workloads to cloud the first thing is they have to know what they own. Discovering their assets and it'd be interesting for most of the CIOs or heads of technology that I talk to they don't even know what they own across all the data centers. So we have a product called Discovery for Mutli-Cloud. Where it can discover all assets customers have on-prim but also assets across AWS. That is a partnership we announced with AWS. And with Azure or any other clouds that they have. And it actually builds a relationship across all of these assets so you can plan if you move one of those assets what is the impact on the rest of the service. That is the beauty of it. >> So Nayaki, I really love the discovery conversation and it is a big challenge for most enterprises. AWS announcing 1,300 features this year alone. Amazing skill. But those assets don't look like traditional CI, configuration items, that we've seen in the past. There's server-less, there's databases. What does an asset look like in BMC so that we normalize that and look at it across multiple clouds. >> There are like technology assets but most importantly when we took a look at an asset it is a business asset. You're providing a service. End to end service. The service could be listing as a service for an eBay website. And for that service you have databases. You have application service. You have code running on various parts. That is what discovery does. Being able to discover for that service. That business service that you have. Delivering to your customers or to your business what all is mapped to that service. So when you actually asses that impact. If you move any one of them or bring any one of them down. What is the impact to that business service. >> So obviously something like a dependency. If I have a listing service for eBay and it's designed for eBay process but I move it somewhere else what does that mean towards basically the employee that needs to go and list an item on eBay their job is impeded. >> Yeah so it immediately detects what impact any one of those assets are moved or brought down or shut down for whatever reason what is the impact on the rest of the relationships and also the business outcome or business service that you are providing. >> So one of the things that John likes to take on is the concept of Multi-Cloud. Getting more into this definition of Mutli-Cloud. Is that we're not running workloads everywhere, are we? Saying that we can't defeat gravity and the speed of light. That you're not going to have AI running and AWS and across object storage and Google. Multi-cloud. How are customers using Multi-cloud? >> Yeah, so I would not say you would not have like 20 clouds that you are using. Typically companies have, of course on-prim, everyone has on-prim, all large enterprises. But then they also have a private cloud of their own. But then have one or two public clouds that they may have workloads. They may have AWS for sure and Azure. So typically that's what a customer landscape looks like. But even within these four or five clouds that you have to manage it's still a big landscape that technology leaders have to manage and secure. >> Talk to us about what you guys have heard this week from AWS. One of the things that you mentioned this year alone over 1,300 new services and features. Last year I think it was 1,117. So the accelerated pace of innovation at AWS is mind blowing. Do you think they probably need like a neck brace? They're going at such warp speed. But I'm wondering how does their pace of innovation with your strategic partnership. How does that influence BMC and what are some of the things that excite you about what you've heard this week. >> So a couple of things. The very first one is for our customers, BMC has what we call Remedy, one of the largest suite for helping customers manage ITSM or IT Service Management. Most of our customers are moving that workload into public clouds like AWS so for us instead of trying to run it our own cloud or in our data centers it's easier for our customers to just move that workload into clouds. So with the pace of innovation that AWS is releasing with 1,300 new features, we don't have to invest in all that. Or our customers don't have to invest on the infrastructure there. We can just focus on the app side, the Remedy side. That's one. The second one I was so excited about was Arora. The announcement of Arora on Postgres. We were actually working very closely with AWS right now on certifying Remedy with Arora and Postgres. We are like few weeks, few months away from that announcment and that release and once that gets out all of our customers should be able to migrate to their gravity system onto Arora with using Postgres as a database which is a huge cost savings for companies on the database side. So those are the two big announcements we are very excited about. >> So, I know this talks to the pace of change. So you guys cutting edge to move Remedy to Postgres on Arora. Serverless for Arora was just announced yesterday. How does that impact? >> That even makes it our job even more easier right? For it to be able to just scale elastically without being like dependent on any one instance or one server is I think this tremendously futuristic and can help our customers and for us not to manage those server assets in AWS. Absolutely. >> So reducing friction. What does it mean to consume Remedy as a service versus worrying about all of that infrastructure. What does that actually mean to your customer? >> So it's not consuming Remedy as a service. It's service management as a service. Right. So if you look at customers want to provide IT Service Management to their employees. How they consume that with a combined solution from BMC and AWS is the beauty of our partnership coming together. >> Let me ask you on that front, what is some of the feedback that you're getting from customers that helps reinforce the partnership with AWS and improve it? >> Yeah, in fact, after we announced the partnership with AWS I would say the intake. The flood of questions I got from customers around the world is they're so happy to hear the partnership because now they can have BMC and AWS at the table discussing how we move their workload, which they had on-prim into AWS and leverage the strength and the power of what AWS gives along with the power of what Remedy gives. >> So service management a huge. You know I've heard CEOs and CIOs call Service Management the ERP of IT. Meaning this is the central point where I go to consume IT services. How does Mutli-Cloud impact the consumption of IT services through something like Remedy. >> Yes. So think of it right. In the past you were providing service management for all your on-prim assets. Now your assets are all over Mutli-Cloud. So it is like Multi-Cloud service management. So we do have the next iteration of Remedy which we call Mutli-Cloud Service Management. So now customers can use launches to provide service for their on-prim assets but all their cloud assets through one service management tool. That's one. But even more little futuristic that Viore announced with AWS is what we call Cognitive Service Management. Is service management a future is not reactive, it's proactive. You detect an issue before it actually happens and proactively provide that service and that is where our integration with Alexa and the AI services come from Amazon. >> So as customers prepare to get ready for Multi-Cloud and the interface into Service Management, what are some of the things that they should be thinking about today? >> So as customers, first of all discover, making sure you discover all the assets, plan the phase at which those assets will move into cloud but then don't forget that at the end of the day you're providing a service to your end customers or end employees. How that service is provided through a single, I would say technology set or single suite, will take them a long ways. So that's where AWS and BMC's suite really becomes very powerful as customers are planning this journey. >> You mentioned Alexa for business and of course we heard all about that this morning. I see a smile on your face. What is that gonna mean for BMC? >> So in fact we announced a partnership with Amazon on Alexa for Business. Well think of it when you go to work and instead of typing a ticket for requesting a service, you just ask Alexa. Alexa, my laptop's not working or my phone is having an issue and it automatically >> Alexa, my laptop. (laughing) >> So that is where we call Alexa for Business where it's not just for consumer world it's not entering into what I call the enterprise world and being able to provide that experience, that end user experience right, through what we call virtual agents and virtual assistants like Alexa for customers and employees to just ask a question and the entire service will be fulfilled right through Alexa. >> So obviously some of the first thoughts that come to my mind when it comes to that type of service. I had an Alexa at home for a little while and I should probably start calling it Echo cause we're setting off a bunch of echos all across the world here. But I quickly got rid of it because my nine year old would come in the room and would say "Order ten cases of bubble gum." And there's no authentication. So, how are those types of enterprise issues getting addressed? >> So, that's what we call enterprise grade. How do you bring enterprise rigor into the technology that is coming from the consumer world. That's why when you ask Alexa for a certain service or a request. It will validate whether you have the authorization to get that service. And all of that integration inside our core ITSM Suite is already done and that's where the power of Alexa plus Remedy really becomes powerful. >> So how many cases of gum do you actually have? >> I don't even like gum so it's gonna take her a while to chew through all of that. (laughing) >> Oh well if only we had more time to explore that. Nayaki, thank you so much for coming back visiting us on theCube and sharing the excitement at BMC. Your energy and excitement for what you guys are doing is electric so thank you for sharing that. >> Thank you Lisa. Thank you Keith. It was an absolutely pleasure and thank you everyone. Thanks a bunch. >> Awesome. And we want to thank you for sticking around with us for my co-host Keith Townsend I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube live at AWS re:Invent 2017. Don't go anywhere. We have great more segments coming back. (pop tech music)

>> Announcer: Live from Midtown Manhattan its theCUBE. Covering BigData New York City 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and it's ecosystem sponsors. >> His name is Jim Kobielus. >> Jim: That right, John Furrier is actually how I pronounce his name for the record. But he is Basil Faruqui. >> Basil Faruqui who's the solutions marketing manager at BMC, welcome to theCUBE. >> Basil: Thank you, good to be back on theCUBE. >> So, first of all, I heard you guys had a tough time in Houston, so hope everything's getting better and best wishes. >> Basil: Definitely in recovery mode now. >> Hopefully that can get straightened out. What's going on BMC, give us a quick update and in context to BigData NYC what's happening, what is BMC doing in the the big data space now? The AI space now, the IoT space now, the cloud space? >> Like you said you know the data space, the IoT space. the AI space. There are four components of this entire picture that literally haven't changed since the beginning of computing. If you look at those four components of a data pipeline a suggestion, storage. processing and analytics. What keeps changing around it is the infrastructure, the types of data, the volume of data and the applications that surround it. The rate of change has picked up immensely over the last few years with Hadoop coming into the picture, public cloud providers pushing it. It's obviously created a number of challenges, but one of the biggest challenges that we are seeing in the market and we're helping customers address is the challenge of automating this. And obviously the benefit of automation is in scalability as well as reliability. So when you look at this rather simple data pipeline, which is now becoming more and more complex. How do you automate all of this from a single point of control? How do you continue to absorb new technologies and not re-architect your automation strategy every time. Whether it's Hadoop, whether it's bringing in machine learning from a cloud provider. And that is the the issue we've been solving for customers. >> All right, let me jump into it. So first of all you mention some things some things that never change, ingestion storage, and what was the third one? >> Ingestions, storage, processing and eventual analytics. >> So OK, so that's cool, totally buy that. Now if you move and say hey okay so you believe that's standard but now in the modern era that we live in, which is complex, you want breadth of data, and also you want the specialization when you get down the machine learning. That's highly bound, that's where the automation it is right now. We see the trend essentially making that automation more broader as it goes into the customer environments. >> Basil: Correct. >> How do you architect that? If I'm a CXO to I'm a CDO, what's in it for me? How do I architect this because that's really the number one thing is I know what the building blocks are but they've changed in their dynamics to the marketplace. >> So the way I look at it is that what defines success and failure, and particularly in big data projects, is your ability to scale. If you start a pilot and you spend, you know, three months on it and you deliver some results. But if you cannot roll it out worldwide, nationwide, whatever it is essentially the project has failed. The analogy often give is Walmart has been testing the pick up tower, I don't know if you seen, so this is basically a giant ATM for you to go pick up an order that you placed online. They're testing this at about hundred stores today. Now that's a success and Walmart wants to roll this out nationwide. How much time do you think their IT departments can have? Is this is a five year project, ten year project? No, the management's going to want this done six months, ten months. So essentially, this is where automation becomes extremely crucial because it is now allowing you to deliver speed to market and without automation you are not going to be able to get to an operational stage in a repeatable and reliable manner. >> You're describing a very complex automation scenario. How can you automate in a hurry without sacrificing you know, the details of what needs to be, In other words, you seem to call for re purposing or reusing prior automation scripts and rules and so forth. How how can the Walmart's of the world do that fast, but also do it well? >> So we do it we go about it in two ways. One is that out of the box we provide a lot of pre built integrations to some of the most commonly used systems in an enterprise. All the way up from the mainframes, Oracle's, SAP's Hadoop, Tableau's, of the world. They're all available out of the box for you to quickly reuse these objects and build an automated data pipeline. The other challenge we saw, and particularly when we entered the big data space four years ago, was that the automation was something that was considered close to the project becoming operational. And that's where a lot of rework happened because developers have been writing their own scripts, using point solutions. So we said all right, it's time to shift automation left and allow companies to build automation as an artifact very early in the development lifecycle. About a month ago we released what we call Control-M Workbench which is essentially a Community Edition of Control-M targeted towards developers. So that instead of writing their own scripts they can use a Control-M in a completely offline manner without having to connect to an enterprise system. As they build and test and iterate, they're using Control-M to do that. So as the application progresses the development lifecycle, and all of that work can then translate easily into an Enterprise Edition of Control-M. >> So quickly, just explain what shift-left means for the folks that might not know software methodologies, left political or left alt-right, this is software development so please take a minute explain what shift-left means, and the importance of it. >> Correct, so the if you if you think of software development and as a straight line continuum you can start with building some code, you will do some testing, then unit testing, than user acceptance testing. As it moves along this chain, there was a point right before production where all of the automation used to happen. You know, developers would come in and deliver the application to ops, and ops would say, well hang on a second all this CRON tab and all these other point solutions have been using for automation, that's not what we use in production. And we need you to now. >> To test early and often. >> Test early and often. The challenge was the developers, the tools they use, we're not the tools that were being used on the production end of the cycle. And there was good reason for it because developers don't need something really heavy and with all the bells and whistles early in the development lifecycle. Control-M Workbench is a very light version which is targeted at developers and focuses on the needs that they have when they're building and developing as the application progresses through its life cycle. >> How much are you seeing Waterfall and then people shifting-left becoming more prominent now. What percentage of your customers have moved to Agile and shifting-left percentage wise? >> So we survey our customers on a regular basis. In the last survey showed that 80% of the customers have either implemented a more continuous integration delivery type of framework, or are in the process of doing it. And that's the other. >> And getting upfront costs as possible, a tipping point is reached. >> What is driving all of that is the need from the business, you know, the days of the five year implementation timelines are gone. This is something that you need to deliver every week, two weeks, and iteration. And we have also innovated in that space and the approach we call Jobs-as-Code where you can build entire, complex data pipelines in code formats so that you can enable the automation in a continuous integration and delivery framework. >> I have one quick question, Jim, and then I'll let you take the floor and got to learn to get a word in soon. But I have one final question on this BMC methodology thing. You guys have a history obviously BMC goes way back. Remember Max Watson CEO, and then in Palm Beach back in 97 we used to chat with him. Dominated that landscape, but we're kind of going back to a systems mindset, so the question for you is how do you view the issue of the this holy grail, the promised land of AI and machine learning. Where, you know, end-to-end visibility is really the goal, right. At the same time, you want bounded experiences at root level so automation can kick in to enable more activity. So it's a trade off between going for the end-to-end visibility out of the gate, but also having bounded visibility and data to automate. How do you guys look at that market because customers want the end-to-end promise, but they don't want to try to get there too fast as a dis-economies of scale potentially. How do you talk about that? >> And that's exactly the approach we've taken with Control-M Workbench the Community Edition. Because early on you don't need capabilities like SLA management and forecasting and automated promotion between environments. Developers want to be able to quickly build, and test and show value, OK. And they don't need something that, as you know, with all the bells and whistles. We're allowing you to handle that piece in that manner, through Control-M Workbench. As things progress, and the application progresses, the needs change as well. Now I'm closer to delivering this to the business, I need to be able to manage this within an SLA. I need to be able to manage this end-to-end and connect this other systems of record and streaming data and click stream data, all of that. So that we believe that there it doesn't have to be a trade off. That you don't have to compromise speed and quality and visibility and enterprise grade automation. >> You mention trade-offs so the Control-M Workbench the developer can use it offline, so what amount of testing can they possibly do on a complex data pipeline automation, when it's when the tool is off line? I mean it simply seems like the more development they do off line, the greater the risk that it simply won't work when they go into production. Give us a sense for how they mitigate that risk. >> Sure, we spent a lot of time observing how developers work and very early in the development stage, all they're doing is working off of their Mac or their laptop and they're not really connecting to any. And that is where they end up writing a lot of scripts because whatever code, business logic, that they've written the way they're going to make it run is by writing scripts. And that essentially becomes a problem because then you have scripts managing more scripts and as the the application progresses, you have this complex web of scripts and CRON tabs and maybe some open source solutions. trying to make, simply make, all of this run. And by doing this I don't know offline manner that doesn't mean that they're losing all of the other controlling capabilities. Simply, as the application progresses whatever automation that they've built in Control-M can seamlessly now flow into the next stage. So when you are ready take an application into production there is essentially no rework required from an automation perspective. All of that that was built can now be translated into the enterprise grade Control-M and that's where operations can then go in and add the other artifacts such as SLA management forecasting and other things that are important from an operational perspective. >> I'd like to get both your perspectives because you're like an analyst here. So Jim, I want you guys to comment, my question to both of you would be you know, looking at this time in history, obviously on the BMC side, mention some of the history. You guys are transforming on a new journey and extending that capability in this world. Jim, you're covering state of the art AI machine learning. What's your take of the space now? Strata Data which is now Hadoop World, which is, Cloudera went public, Hortonworks is now public. Kind of the big, the Hadoop guys kind of grew up, but the world has changed around them. It's not just about Hadoop anymore. So I want to get your thoughts on this kind of perspective. We're seeing a much broader picture in BigData NYC versus the Strata Hadoop, which seems to be losing steam. But, I mean, in terms of the focus, the bigger focus is much broader horizontally scalable your thoughts on the ecosystem right now. >> Let Basil answer first unless Basil wants me to go first. >> I think the reason the focus is changing is because of where the projects are in their life cycle. You know now what we're seeing is most companies are grappling with how do I take this to the next level. How do I scale, how do I go from just proving out one or two use cases to making the entire organization data driven and really inject data driven decision making in all facets of decision making. So that is, I believe, what's driving the change that we're seeing, that you know now you've gone from Strata Hadoop to being Strata Data, and focus on that element. Like I said earlier, these difference between success and failure is your ability to scale and operationalize. Take machine learning for example. >> And really it's not a hype market. Show me the meat on the bone, show me scale, I got operational concerns of security and whatnot. >> And machine learning you know that's one of the hottest topics. A recent survey I read which polled a number of data scientists, it revealed that they spent about less than 3% of their time in training the data models and about 80% of their time in data manipulation, data transformation and enrichment. That is obviously not the best use of the data scientists time, and that is exactly one of the problems we're solving for our customers around the world. >> And it needs to be automated to the hilt to help them to be more productive delivering fast results. >> Ecosystem perspective, Jim whats you thoughts? >> Yes everything that Basil said, and I'll just point out that many of the core use cases for AI are automation of the data pipeline. You know it's driving machine learning driven predictions, classifications, you know abstractions and so forth, into the data pipeline, into the application pipeline to drive results in a way that is contextually and environmentally aware of what's going on. The path, the history historical data, what's going on in terms of current streaming data to drive optimal outcomes, you know, using predictive models and so forth, in line to applications. So really, fundamentally then, what's going on is that automation is an artifact that needs to be driven into your application architecture as a re-purposeful resource for a variety of jobs. >> How would you even know what to automate? I mean that's the question. >> You're automating human judgment, your automating effort. Like the judgments that a working data engineer makes to prepare data for modeling and whatever. More and more that need can be automated because those are patterned, structured activities that have been mastered by smart people over many years. >> I mean we just had a customer on his with a glass company, GSK, with that scale, and his attitude is we see the results from the users then we double down and pay for it and automate it. So the automation question, it's a rhetorical question but this begs the question, which is you know who's writing the algorithms as machines get smarter and start throwing off their own real time data. What are you looking at, how do you determine you're going to need you machine learning for machine learning? You're going to need AI for AI? Who writes the algorithms for the algorithms? >> Automated machine learning is a hot hot, not only research focus, but we're seeing it more and more solution providers like Microsoft and Google and others, are going deep down doubling down and investments in exactly that area. That's a productivity play for data scientists. >> I think the data markets going to change radically in my opinion, so you're starting to see some things with blockchain some other things that are interesting. Data sovereignty, data governance are huge issues. Basil, just give your final thoughts for this segment as we wrap this up. Final thoughts on data and BMC, what should people know about BMC right now, because people might have a historical view of BMC. What's the latest, what should they know, what's the new Instagram picture of BMC? What should they know about you guys? >> I think what I would say people should know about BMC is that you know all the work that we've done over the last 25 years, in virtually every platform that came before Hadoop, we have now innovated to take this into things like big data and cloud platforms. So when you are choosing Control-M as a platform for automation, you are choosing a very very mature solution. An example of which is Navistar and their CIO is actually speaking at the keynote tomorrow. They've had Control-M for 15, 20 years and have automated virtually every business function through Control-M. And when they started their predictive maintenance project where there ingesting data from about 300 thousand vehicles today, to figure out when this vehicle might break and do predictive maintenance on it. When they started their journey they said that they always knew that they were going to use Control-M for it because that was the enterprise standard. And they knew that they could simply now extend that capability into this area. And when they started about three four years ago there were ingesting data from about a hundred thousand vehicles, that has now scaled over 325 thousand vehicles and they have not had to re-architect their strategy as they grow and scale. So, I would say that is one of the key messages that we are are taking to market, is that we are bringing innovation that has spanned over 25 years and evolving it. >> Modernizing it. >> Modernizing it and bringing it to newer platforms. >> Congratulations, I wouldn't call that a pivot, I'd call it an extensibility issue, kind of modernizing the core things. >> Absolutely. >> Thanks for coming and sharing the BMC perspective inside theCUBE here. On BigData NYC this is theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Jim Kobielus here in New York City, more live coverage the three days we will be here, today, tomorrow and Thursday at BigData NYC. More coverage after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's The Cube covering DataWorks Summit 2017. Brought to you by Horton works. >> Hi. Welcome back to The Cube. We are live at day one of the DataWorks Summit in San Jose, in the heart of Silicon Valley, hosted by Hortonworks. We've had a great day so far. Lots of innovation. Lots of great announcements. We're very excited to be joined by one of this week's keynotes and Cube alumni, Joe Goldberg, Innovation Evangelist at BMC Software. Welcome back to The Cube. >> Thank you very much. Always a pleasure to be here. >> Exactly and we're happy to have you back. So, talk to us, what's happening with BMC? What are you guys doing there? What are people going to learn in your keynote on Thursday? >> So BMC has been really working with all of our customers to modernize, not only our tool chain, but the way automation is used and deployed throughout the organization. We actually did a survey recently, The State of Automation. We got pretty much the kind of results we would've expected, but this let us really sort of make tangible what we have sort of always felt was, you know the state of this kind of approach to how critical automation is in the enterprise. We had a response from leaders and CXOs that 93% thought that automation was key to helping them make that digital transformation that everyone is involved in today. So, that's been one of the key elements that has really kind of driven everything that we've been doing with BMC today. >> Now, BMC's known especially for handling workflows that operate more than a batch work >> Joe Goldberg: Yes So high certainty, very much predictability in terms of when things going to happen, how long's it going to take, what action's going to take place. Very, very complex types of processing takes place. I'm always fascinated and I've talked to other customers that are wondering about this when you come back to the State of Automation that we want to move, everybody wants to move to interactive. >> Joe Goldberg: Yes. >> But often the jump to interactive takes place well in advance of predictability of how the data's actually being constructed and put together and aggregated in the back end. Talk a little bit about the priorities. How does one...? Cause it's really not a chicken and egg kind of a problem. How does one anticipate excellence in the other? So what we've been hearing and actually I think of the previous Hortonworks or DataWorks Summit, we had one of our customers talk about their approach to what was a fundamental data architecture for them, which was the separation between the speed and batch layer. And I think you hear an awful lot of that kind of conversation. And they run in parallel and from our perspective managing the batch layer really underpins the kind of real actionable insides that you can extract from the speed layer, which is focusing on capturing that very small percentage of what is really the signal in the data, but then being able to take that and enrich it with what you've been collecting and managing using the batch layer. I think that that's the kind of approach that we've seen from a lot of customers, where certainly all of the cool stuff and the focus is on the interactive and the realtime and streaming. But in order to really be able to be predictive, because you know there's no magic, we still don't know how to tell the future. The only to be able to do that is by making sure that you are basing yourself on history that is well, sort of collected, curated, make sure that you have actually captured it, that you've enriched it from a variety of different sources. And that's where we come in. What we have been focusing on is providing a set of facilities for managing batch that is... I talk about hyper heterogeneity, I know that's a mouthful, but that's really what the new enterprise environment is like. So you add or you know, a layer on top of your conventional applications and your conventional data, all of this new data formats and data does now arriving in real time in high volume. I think that taking that kind of an approach is really the only way that you can ensure that you are capturing all of your... Ingesting all of the data that's coming in from all of your endpoints, including you know, IOT applications and really being able to combine it with all of the corporate sort of knowledge that you've accumulated through your traditional sources. >> So, batches historically meant, again a lot of precise code, it had to be written to handle complex jobs and it scared off a lot of folks into thinking about interactive. In the last 10 years, there's been some pretty significant advances in how we think about putting together batch workflows, become much more programmable. How does control (mumbles) and some of the other tool set that BNC provides, How does it fit into? How does it look more like the types of application development, tasks and methods that are becoming increasingly popular, as you think about delivering the outcomes of big data processing to other applications or to other segments? >> So, you know that's very, that's a great question. Its almost like, thanks for the set up. So, you can see. >> Well let's not ask it then. (laughs) >> You can see the shirt that I'm wearing and of course this is very intentional, but our history has been that we've come from the data center, operations focus. And the transition in the marketplace today has been that really the focus has shifted, whether you talk about shift left or everything as code, where the new methods of building and delivering applications really look at everything manual that is done, coding to create an application that's done upfront. And then the rigger for enterprise operations is built in through this automated delivery pipeline. And so, obviously you have to invert this kind of approach that we've had in terms of layering management tools on at the very end and instead you have to be able to inject them into your application early. So, we feel that certainly it's true for all applications and it's I think doubly true in data applications, that the automation and the operational instrumentation is an equal partner to your business logic under the code that you write and so it needs to be created right upfront and then moved together with all of the rest of your application components through that delivery pipeline in a CIDC fashion. And so that is what we have done. And again that what the concept is of Jawless. >> So, as you think about what the next step is, is batch going to, presumably batch will be sustained as mode of operation. How is it going to become even more comfortable to a lot of the development methodologys as we move forward? How do you think it's going to be evolved as a tool for increasing the amount of predictability in that back end? >> So, I think that the key to continuing to evolve this Jawless code approach is to enable developers to be able to build and work with that operational plumbing in the same way they work with their business logic. >> Or any other resource? >> Exactly. So, you know, you think about what are the tools that developers have today when they build, whether you're writing in Java or C or R or Scala, there are development environments, there are these tools that let you test that let you step through your logic to be able to identify and find any flaws, you know sort of bugs in your code. And in order for jawless code to really meet the test of being code, we are working on providing the same kind of capabilities to work with our objects that developers expect to have for programming languages. >> So Joe, I'm not going to shift us back last question here. Kind of looking at more of a business industry level, to do big data write, to bring Hadoop to an enterprise successfully, what are some of the mission critical elements that c-suite really needs to embrace in order to be successful across big industries, like healthcare, financial services, Telco? >> So, I think they have to be able to apply the same requirements and the test for how a big data application moves into their enterprise in terms of, not only how it's operated, but how is it made accessible to all of the constituents that need to use it. One of the key elements we hear frequently is that, and I think it's a danger that when technicians solely create what is the end deliverable tool, it frequently is very technical and it has to be consumable by the people that actually need to use it. And so you have to strike this balance between providing sufficient technical sophistication and business usability and I think that that's kind of a goal for being successful in implementing any kind of technology and certainly big data. >> Excellent. Well, Joe Goldberg, thank you so much for coming back to the Cube and joining my cohost, Peter Burris and I for this great chat. And people can watch your keynote on Thursday. >> Yes. >> This week, on the 15th of June. So again for my cohost Peter Burris. I am Lisa Martin. Thanks so much for watching the Cube live, again at day one of the DataWorks Summit. Stick around. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from San Jose, California, it's theCUBE covering Big Data Silicon Valley 2017. >> Welcome back everyone. We are here live in Silicon Valley for theCUBE's Big Data coverage. Our event, Big Data Silicon Valley, also called Big Data SV. A companion event to our Big Data NYC event where we have our unique program in conjunction with Strata Hadoop. I'm John Furrier with George Gilbert, our Wikibon big data analyst. And we have Basil Faruqui, who is the Solutions Marketing Manager at BMC Software. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, great to be here. >> We've been hearing a lot on theCUBE about schedulers and automation, and machine learning is the hottest trend happening in big data. We're thinking that this is going to help move the needle on some things. Your thoughts on this, on the world we're living in right now, and what BMC is doing at the show. >> Absolutely. So, scheduling and workflow automation is absolutely critical to the success of big data projects. This is not something new. Hadoop is only about 10 years old but other technologies that have come before Hadoop have relied on this foundation for driving success. If we look the Hadoop world, what gets all the press is all the real-time stuff, but what powers all of that underneath it is a very important layer of batch. If you think about some of the most common use cases for big data, if you think of a bank, they're talking about fraud detection and things like that. Let's just take the fraud detection example. Detecting an anomaly of how somebody is spending, if somebody's credit card is used which doesn't match with their spending habits, the bank detects that and they'll maybe close the card down or contact somebody. But if you think about everything else that has happened before that as something that has happened in batch mode. For them to collect the history of how that card has been used, then match it with how all the other card members use the cards. When the cards are stolen, what are those patterns? All that stuff is something that is being powered by what's today known as workload automation. In the past, it's been known by names such as job scheduling and batch processing. >> In the systems businesses everyone knows what schedulers, compilers, all this computer science stuff. But this is interesting. Now that the data lake has become so swampy, and people call it the data swamp, people are looking at moving data out of data lakes into real time, as you mention, but it requires management. So, there's a lot of coordination going on. This seems to be where most enterprises are now focusing their attention on, is to make that data available. >> Absolutely. >> Hence the notion of scheduling and workloads. Because their use cases are different. Am I getting it right? >> Yeah, absolutely. And if we look at what companies are doing, every CEO and every boardroom, there's a charter for digital transformation for companies. And, it's no longer about taking one or two use cases around big data and driving success. Data and intelligence is now at the center of everything a company does, whether it's building new customer engagement models, whether it's building new ecosystems with their partners, suppliers. Back-office optimization. So, when CIOs and data architects think about having to build a system like that, they are faced with a number of challenges. It has to become enterprise ready. It has to take into account governance, security, and others. But, if you peel the onion just a little bit, what architects and CIOs are faced with is okay, you've got a web of complex technologies, legacy applications, modern applications that hold a lot of the corporate data today. And then you have new sources of data like social media, devices, sensors, which have a tendency to produce a lot more data. First things first, you've got a ecosystem like Hadoop, which is supposed to be kind of the nerve center of the new digital platform. You've got to start ingesting all this data into Hadoop. This has to be in an automated fashion for it to be able to scalable. >> But this is the combination of streaming and batch. >> Correct. >> Now this seems to be the management holy grail right now. Nailing those two. Did I get that? >> Absolutely. So, people talk about, in technical terms, the speed layer and the batch layer. And both have to converge for them to be able to deliver the intelligence and insight that the business users are looking for. >> Would it be fair to say it's not just the convergence of the speed layer and batch layer in Hadoop but what BMC brings to town is the non-Hadoop parts of those workloads. Whether it's batch outside Hadoop or if there's streaming, which sort-of pre-Hadoop was more nichey. But we need this over-arching control, which if it's not a Hadoop-centric architecture. >> Absolutely. So, I've said this for a long time, that Hadoop is never going to live on an island on its own in the enterprise. And with the maturation of the market, Hadoop has to now play with the other technologies in the stack So if you think about, just take data ingestion for an example, you've got ERP's, you've got CRM's, you've got middleware, you've got data warehouses, and you have to ingest a lot of that in. Where Control-M brings a lot of value and speeds up time to market is that we have out-of-the box integrations with a lot of the systems that already exist in the enterprise, such as ERP solutions and others. Virtually any application that can expose itself through an API or a web service, Control-M has the ability to automate that ingestion piece. But this is only step one of the journey. So, you've brought all this data into Hadoop and now you've got to process it. The number of tools available for processing this is growing at an unprecedented rate. You've got, you know MapReduce was a hot thing just two years ago and now Spark has taken over. So Control-M, about four years ago we started building very deep native capabilities in their new ecosystem. So, you've got ingestion that's automated, then you can seamlessly automate the actual processing of the data using things like Spark, Hive, PEG, and others. And the last mile of the journey, the most important one, is them making this refined data available to systems and users that can analyze it. Often Hadoop is not the repository where analytic systems sit on top of. It's another layer where all of this has to be moved. So, if you zoom out and take a look at it, this is a monumental task. And if you use siloed approach to automating this, this becomes unscalable. And that's where a lot of the Hadoop projects often >> Crash and burn. >> Crash and burn, yes, sustainability. >> Let's just say it, they crash and burn. >> So, Control-M has been around for 30 years. >> By the way, just to add to the crash-and-burn piece, the data lake gets stalled there, that's why the swamp happens, because they're like, now how do I operationalize this and scale it out? >> Right, if you're storing a lot of data and not making it available for processing and analysis, then it's of no use. And that's exactly our value proposition. This is a problem we haven't solved for the first time. We did this as we have seen these waves of automation come through. From the mainframe time when it was called batch processing. Then it evolved into distributed client server when it was known more as job scheduling. And now. >> So BMCs have seen this movie before. >> Absolutely. >> Alright, so let's take a step back. Zoom out, step back, go hang out in the big trees, look down on the market. Data practitioners, big data practitioners out there right now are wrestling with this issue. You've got streaming, real-time stuff, you got batch, it's all coming together. What is Control-M doing great right now with practitioners that you guys are solving? Because there are a zillion tools out there, but people are human. Every hammer looks for a nail. >> Sure. So, you have a lot of change happening at the same time but yet these tools. What is Control-M doing to really win? Where are you guys winning? >> Where we are adding a lot of value for our customers is helping them speed up the time to market and delivering these big data projects, in delivering them at scale and quality. >> Give me an example of a project. >> Malwarebytes is a Silicon Valley-based company. They are using this to ingest and analyze data from thousands of end-points from their end users. >> That's their Lambda architecture, right? >> In Lambda architecture, I won't steal their thunder, they're presenting tomorrow at eleven. >> Okay. >> Eleven-thirty tomorrow. Another example is a company called Navistar. Now here's a company that's been around for 200 years. They manufacture heavy-duty trucks, 18-wheelers, school buses. And they recently came up with a service called OnCommand. They have a fleet of 160,000 trucks that are fitted with sensors. They're sending telematic data back to their data centers. And in between that stops in the cloud. So it gets to the cloud. >> So they're going up to the cloud for upload and backhaul, basically, right? >> Correct. So, it goes to the cloud. From there it is ingested inside their Hadoop systems. And they're looking for trends to make sure none of the trucks break down because a truck that's carrying freight breaks down hits the bottom line right away. But that's not where they're stopping. In real time they can triangulate the position of the truck, figure out where the nearest dealership is. Do they have the parts? When to schedule the service. But, if you think about it, the warranty information, the parts information is not sitting in Hadoop. That's sitting in their mainframes, SAP systems, and others. And Control-M is orchestrating this across the board, from mainframe to ERP and into Hadoop for them to be able to marry all this data together. >> How do you get back into the legacy? That's because you have the experience there? Is that part of the product portfolio? >> That is absolutely a part of the product portfolio. We started our journey back in the mainframe days, and as the world has evolved, to client server to web, and now mobile and virtualized and software-defined infrastructures, we have kept pace with that. >> You guys have a nice end-to-end view right now going on. And certainly that example with the trucks highlights IOT rights right there. >> Exactly. You have a clear line of sight on IOT? >> Yup. >> That would be the best measure of your maturity is the breadth of your integrations. >> Absolutely. And we don't stop at what we provide just out of the box. We realized that we have 30 to 35 out-of-the box integrations but there are a lot more applications than that. We have architected control them in a way where that can automate data loads on any application and any database that can expose itself through an API. That is huge because if you think about the open-source world, by the time this conference is going to be over, there's going to be a dozen new tools and projects that come online. And that's a big challenge for companies too. How do you keep pace with this and how do you (drowned out) all this? >> Well, I think people are starting to squint past the fashion aspect of open source, which I love by the way, but it does create more diversity. But, you know, some things become fashionable and then get big-time trashed. Look at Spark. Spark was beautiful. That one came out of the woodwork. George, you're tracking all the fashion. What's the hottest thing right now on open source? >> It seems to me that we've spent five-plus years building data lakes and now we're trying to take that data and apply the insides from it to applications. And, really Control-M's value add, my understanding is, we have to go beyond Hadoop because Hadoop was an island, you know, an island or a data lake, but now the insides have to be enacted on applications that go outside that ecosystem. And that's where Control-M comes in. >> Yeah, absolutely. We are that overarching layer that helps you connect your legacy systems and modern systems and bring it all into Hadoop. The story I tell when I'm explaining this to somebody is that you've installed Hadoop day-one, great, guess what, it has no data in it. You've got to ingest data and you have to be able to take a strategic approach to that because you can use some point solutions and do scripting for the first couple of use cases, but as soon as the business gives us the green light and says, you know what, we really like what we've seen now let's scale up, that's where you really need to take a strategic approach, and that's where Control-M comes in. >> So, let me ask then, if the bleeding edge right now is trying to operationalize the machine learning models that people are beginning to experiment with, just the way they were experimenting with data lakes five years ago, what role can Control-M play today in helping people take a trained model and embed it in an application so it produces useful actions, recommendations, and how much custom integration does that take? >> If we take the example of machine learning, if you peel the onion of machine learning, you've got data that needs to be moved, that needs to be constantly evaluated, and then the algorithms have to be run against it to provide the insights. So, this in itself is exactly what Control-M allows you to do, is ingest the data, process the data, let the algorithms process it, and then of course move it to a layer where people and other systems, it's not just about people anymore, it's other systems that'll analyze the data. And the important piece here is that we're allowing you to do this from a single pane of glass. And being able to see this picture end to end. All of this work is being done to drive business results, generating new revenue models, like in the case of Navistar. Allowing you to capture all of this and then tie it to business SOAs, that is one of the most highly-rated capabilities of Control-M from our customers. >> This is the cloud equation we were talking last week at Google Next. A combination of enterprise readiness across the board. The end-to-end is the picture and you guys are in a good position. Congratulations, and thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. >> Absolutely, great to be here. >> It's theCUBE breaking it down here at Big Data World. This is the trend. It's an operating system world in the cloud. Big data with IOT, AI, machine learning. Big themes breaking out early-on at Big Data SV in conjunction with Strata Hadoop. More right after this short break.

(soft music) >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE on Cloud, where we're talking to CEOs, CIOs, Chief Technology Officers, and investors on the future of Cloud, with me is Dave Humphrey. Who's the Managing Director, and co-head of private equity in North America at Bain Capital. Dave, welcome to theCUBE first time, I think. >> First time, yeah, Dave, thanks very much for having me. >> So, let's get right into it, as an investor, how are you thinking about the evolution of cloud, when you look back at the last decade? It's not going to be the same, in this coming decade it's ironic 2020 is thrown us into, the accelerated digital transformation and cloud. How do you look at the evolution of cloud, from an investment perspective? What's your thesis? >> That's a great question, David for us we're focused on investing, in technology and really across the economy. And I'd say ,the cloud is the overarching trend, and dynamic in the technology markets. It really affect two reasons. One is a major shift ,of course that's going on. But the second and frankly even more interesting one, just as all the growth, that the cloud is creating, in the technology marketplace. The shift, think is been well covered, but five years ago in 2015, by our analysis, 2/3 of all computing workloads were done on premises. And only five years later, that's that's split. So, 2/3 of all computing workloads now done in the cloud and of course that shift, there's a lot of ramifications, as an investor. But even more interesting to us, is the growth in technology and the usage of technology, that the cloud is creating. So, over that same period of time, the total number of computing workloads run has increased, by 2.6 times, in just a five-year period of time which is really a dramatic thing and it makes sense when you think about, all the new software applications that could be created, all the data that can be used by new users and new segments, and the real-time insight that can be gleaned from there cause that growth, that really were focused on investing behind, as investors in technology. >> It's interesting you share those numbers, and you hear a lot of numbers. I actually think you're even being conservative. Ginni Rometty, used to talk about 80% of workloads, are still on-prem. Andy Jassy at re:Invent said that, 96% of the spending is still on premises. So, that was kind of an interesting stat. And I guess the other thing that I would note is it's not just a share shift, it is, it's not just, the cloud eating away on-prem. We've clearly seen that. But there's also incremental opportunity as well. If you look at Snowflake, for example adding value across multiple clouds and creating new markets. So there's that one-two punch, of stealing share from on-prem (clears throat). Also incremental growth, which is probably accelerated as a result, of this compressed digital transformation. So when you look at the big three Cloud players. I mean, roughly speaking, there probably account for $80 billion in total revenue. Which I guess, is a small portion of the overall IT market. So, it has a long way to go, but what's the best way to get good returns, from an investment standpoint, without getting clobbered, by their tendency to sometimes co-opt some of the best ideas and put them on their primary services. >> Yeah, absolutely, well, for us, it really comes back to the same fundamental principles, we look for in any investment. Which is finding, a business that solves, a really important problem for its customers, and does so in a way that's really advantage, versus competition and can do something, that other competitors just can't do. Whether those be the hyperscalers that you're describing, or other specialized and focused competitors. And then finding a way ,that we can partner with those companies to help them to accelerate their growth. So, surely the growth of the likes of AWS and Microsoft and Google, as you were describing has been a profound, competitive shift, along with the cloud shift, that we've all talked about. And those companies of course can offer, and do things that you asked, purveyors of computing couldn't. But, fundamentally they're selling an infrastructure layer, and there is room for all sorts of new competitors, and new applications that can do something better than anybody else can. So, any company that we're looking at, we're asking ourselves the question, why are they the best ones, to do what they're doing? How can they solve the most problems, for their customers and do that, in a way that's resilient? And we see lots of those opportunities. >> And I want to pick your brain, about the Nutanix investment, but before we get there. I wonder if you could just talk, about Bain Capital their history of investment in both cloud and infrastructure software and how do those investments, how would they perform and how do they inform your current thesis? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, Bain Capital was started in the mid 80s, 1984. Actually, as a spin out Bain Company Consulting. And the basic premise was that, if we're good at advising and supporting businesses. We should partner with them and invest behind them and if they do well, we'll do well. And as I said, focusing on these businesses but do something really valuable for their customers in a real advantage way with some discontinuous growth opportunity. That's led us to grow a lot. We started out actually in the venture business, and grew into the private equity business, but now we invest across all life stages of company all over the world. So we're $105 billion in assets that we manage, across 10 lines of business and we're truly global. So I think we have about 470 investment professionals and 210 of those, at this point are located outside the US. One of the really interesting things for us in investing in technology broadly and in infrastructure and the Cloud more specifically is that we're able to do that all over the world and we're able to do that across all the different life stages of a company. So we have a thrive in venture capital business, that really we've been in, since the origins of Bain Capital has invested across countless cloud and security and infrastructure businesses, taken successful companies public like SolarWinds sold companies to strategic and grown businesses in really thriving ways. We have a growth mid-market growth technology business, that we launched last year, called our Technology Opportunities Fund. They've made a really interesting, cloud-based investment in a company called the Cloud Gurus, Cloud Guru, excuse me. That trains, the next generation of IT professionals to be successful in the cloud. And then of course in our private equity business where I spend my time. We are highly focused on technologist sector. And the impacts of the cloud in that sector broadly, we have invested in many infrastructure businesses, scale businesses like, BMC Software and Rocket Software, security businesses like, Blue Coat Systems and Symantec. And of course, for those big businesses they've got both on premises solutions. They've got cloud solutions and often we're focused on helping them continue to grow and innovate and take their solutions to the cloud. And then, this taken us to our most recent investment in Nutanix that we're very excited about it. We think it's truly a growth business in a large market that has an opportunity to capitalize, on these trends we're talking about. >> I wonder if you could comment on some of the changes that have occurred, you guys have been in the private equity business, for a long time. And if you look at kind of the early days of private equity, it was all, EBITDA suck as much cash out of the company as possible and whatever's left over we'll figure out what to do with it. And it's, it seems like investors have realized, wow, we can actually, if we put a little investment in and do some engineering, and some go to market we can actually, get better multiples. And so you've got the kind of rule of 30, 35 and 40 where EBITDA plus growth is kind of the metric. How do you think about that and look at that evolution? >> Yeah, it's interesting because in many ways Bain Capital was started as the antithesis to what you're describing. >> Great. >> So we started again as, with a strategic lens and a focus on growth and a focus on, if we got the longterm and the lasting impact of our businesses right, that the returns would follow and you're right that the market has evolved in that way. I mean, I think some of the dynamics that we've seen, has been certainly growth of the private equity business. It's become a much larger piece of the capital markets than it was certainly 10 years ago and 20 years ago. Also with that growth comes the globalization of that business all over the world and the specialization. So you certainly see technology focused firms and technology focused funds in a way that you didn't see 10 years ago or certainly 20 years ago. Actually Bain Capital interestingly enough, we had a technology focused fund in 1989 called Bain Information Partners. So we've been focused on the sector for a very long time. But you certainly see a lot more technology investors, than you did in your 10 to 20 years ago. >> How are you thinking about valuations these days? I mean, it's good to be in tech, it's even better to be in the cloud, software, cloud, if you're looking at, some of the companies, especially the work from home pivot. But a lot of that appears to be, many people believe it's going to be permanent. How are you feeling about the both public market and private market valuations in that dynamic? >> Yeah, well, it's amazing, right? I don't think any of us in March when the COVID crisis was just emerging, would've anticipated that come November, the markets and certainly the technology markets, would be even more robust and stronger than they were say in January, February. But I think it's a testament to the resilience of the technology and just how intricate and intertwined technology has become with our daily lives. And how much companies depend on its use. And frankly, it's been, the COVID environment has been an accelerant, for many of the ways in which we depend on technology. So witness this interview, of course, through the cloud, and you're seeing the way that we operate our business day-to-day, the way companies are accessing their data and information it has only further, accelerated the need for technology, and the importance of that technology to how businesses operate. So I think you're seeing that, you're reflected in the market values out there, but for us we're focused on businesses, that still have that catalytic opportunity ahead that can, do more to compensate for the price of entry. >> Let's talk about ,this massive investment you guys made in Nutanix, $750 million. I guess it's a small piece of your 105 billion, but still massive investment. How did that opportunity come to you? What was your thinking behind that investment and what are you looking for in terms of the go-forward plan and growth plan for 2021 and really important beyond? >> Yeah, absolutely, we're thrilled to be partnered with and invested in Nutanix. We think is a terrific company and our most recent technology investment are private equity business. It really came about through a proactive efforts that we had in the spring. We've got a team focused on the technology sector, focused across infrastructure and applications and internet and digital media businesses and financial technology. And through those efforts, we were looking for businesses, that we felt had faced some dislocation in their market values, associated with the COVID environment that we're facing. But that we thought were really attractive businesses, well positioned have leading solutions, and had substantial and discontinuous growth opportunities. And as we look through that effort, we really felt that Nutanix stood out just as a core leader and in fact, really the innovator and the inventor of the market, in which it competes with a substantial market share and position, solving a really important problem for its customers, with a big growth opportunity ahead. But, the stock price had come down, because the business has been undergoing a transition. And we didn't think that was fully understood, by the market. And so, we saw an opportunity to partner with Nutanix, to invest money into the business, to help to fund its transition and its growth, and to be partners along for all the value of the business we'll continue to create, we think it's a terrific company and we're excited to be invested. >> Well, you and I have talked about this, that transition from a traditional license model, to one that's an annual recurring revenue model which many companies have gone through. Adobe certainly has done it, Tableau successfully did it. Splunk is kind of in the middle of that transition right now, and maybe not well understood. You've got companies like, Datadog and Snowflake again to doing consumption-based pricing. So there's a lot of confusion in the marketplace. And I wonder if you could talk about, that transition and why it was attractive to you, to actually place that bet now. >> Yeah, absolutely and as you say, number of companies at this point have been through, various forms of of this shift from selling their technology upfront to selling it over time. And we find that the model of selling the technology over time, is one that can be powerful. It can be aligning for customers, as well as for the vendor of the software solutions. And in Nutanix in particular, again, we saw all the ingredients that we think, make this an opportunity for the business. Again, market-leading technology that customers love that is solving a really important problem that technology because Nutanix had been grown, and bootstrapped under the leadership Dheeraj when it was built and founded. Had been selling its software together within appliance. Often in a upfront sale. And has been undergoing under their own initiative, transitioned from selling that software with an appliance to a software based model to one that's more rattle over time. And we thought that there was the opportunity to continue that transition and by doing that. To be able to offer more growth, and more innovation that we can bring to our customers to continue to fund their shifts. So, something that frankly was well underway before we invested. As the business makes this transition, from collecting upfront to more evenly over time. We saw a potential use for our capital, to help to fund that growth. And we're just focused on being a good partner, to help the company keep investing and innovating, as it continues to do that. >> As I was talking to somebody other day, Dave and I told him, I was interviewing you. And I was mentioning the Nutanix investment. And I said, I'm definitely going to cover that. As part of this Cube on Cloud program and they said, well, then Nutanix, that's not cloud. I'm like, well, wait a minute, what's cloud? So, we heard Andy Jassy at re:Invent, talking all lot about hybrid. Antonio Neri ,right after HPE, made its earning last earnings announcement. He came on and said that, well we heard the big cloud player talk about hybrid. And so the definition is changing. But so how are you looking at the market? Certainly, there's this hyper converged infrastructure, but there's also this software play, there's this cloud play. Help us squint through, how you see that. >> Absolutely, so, Nutanix as you alluded to pioneer the market for hyper converged infrastructure, for bringing compute and storage and networking together. Often in private Cloud environments, in a way that was really powerful for your customers and they can of course continue to be the leaders in that marketplace. But they've continued to innovate and invest in ways that can, solve problems for customers and related problems across the hybrid cloud. So, combining both the public cloud with that private cloud and across multiple public clouds, with things like clusters and lots of innovation, that the business is doing, in partnership with the likes of Amazon and Microsoft and others. And so we think that Nutanix has a powerful role to play, in that hybrid cloud world, in a multi-cloud world. And we're excited to back them in. >> Well, I think too, what maybe people don't understand, is that not only is Nutanix, compatible with AWS and compatible with Azure and GCP, but it's actually trying, to create an abstraction layer across those, those clouds. Now, there's two sides of that debate. Some will say, well, that has latency issues or yes it reduces complexity, but at the same time it doesn't give you, that fine-grained access that's kind of the AWS narrative customers, want simplicity and we're seeing the uptake across clouds. I have a multi-part question for you, Dave. So, obviously Bain very strong in strategy. I'm curious ,as to how much you get involved, in the operational details. I mean, obviously $750 million you've got a stake there. But what are the two or three major strategic considerations for not just even just Nutanix, but Cloud and software infrastructure companies? And how much focus do you put on the operational and what are the priorities there? >> Absolutely, well, we pride ourselves in being good partners to our businesses and in helping them to grow, not just with our capital, which I think is of course important, but also with our sweat equity and our human capital, and our partnership and we can do that in lots of ways. It's fundamentally about supporting our businesses, however, is needed to help them to grow. We've been investing in the technology sector, as I described over, over 30 years. And so, we've built up a set of capabilities around things like, helping to a partner with the Salesforce of a company is helping them to think about the ways in which they allocate their research and development and their innovation ways in which they, continue to do acquisitions, to further that pipeline. We support our businesses in lots of ways. But we're not engineers, we're not developers. Of course, we're looking for businesses that are fundamentally great. They've got great technology. They solve problems for customers in a way, we could never replicate. That's, what's all amazing about a business like Nutanix and just over a 10 year period of time, it literally has customer satisfaction levels, that we haven't seen from any other infrastructure software company that we've had the pleasure of diligencing over the last several years. So, what we're focused on, is how can we take those great products and offerings that Nutanix has, and continue to support them, through the further growth and expansion of areas like, the further Salesforce investment, to expand into these new areas like clusters, that we were talking about and thinking about, things that they can do, to further expand the strategic hold. And so, we have a large team of Bain Capital as I mentioned, 260 investment professionals, in our private equity business alone. About a third of those are just available to our companies to help support them, with various initiatives and efforts after we invest. And we'll certainly, of course make all of those available to Nutanix as well. >> Somebody was asking me the other day, what's hyper-converged infrastructure? How did that come about? And I was explaining, back in the day you had, you'd buy some servers and some storage, and you'd have a network. And you sort of have different teams. And you'd put applicant, you figure it out all out and put the applications on top, test it and make sure it all works and then the guys at VCE and VMware and Cisco and EMC, they got together and said, okay, we're going to bolt together a bunch of different components and pretest it here you go, here's a, here's a skew. And then, what Nutanix did was actually, really transformational and said, okay. Look, we can do this through software. And now that was what late 2000? Now, we're sort of entering this new era, this next generation of cloud, cross clouds. So, I wonder how you think about, based on what you were just talking about the whole notion of MA versus organic. There's a lot of organic development that needs to be done but perhaps you could buy in or inorganically through MA to actually get there faster. How do you think about that balance? >> Look I think that was an articulate by the way explanation of I think that the origins of a hyperconverged infrastructure, so I enjoyed that very much. But I think that with any of our businesses and with Nutanix we're of course looking at where are we trying to get to in several years and what are the best ways to support the business to get there? Of course, they'll primarily that will be through continuing organic investment in the company and all the innovation in the product, that they've been doing. Will the company contemplate acquisitions, to further achieve the development goals and the objectives for solving paying points for customers, to get to the strategic places they're trying to get to of course, but it all, is a part of the package of what's a good fit for the company and its growth objective. >> I mean, with the size of your portfolio, I mean, you're a full stack investor, I would say. Is there any part of the so-called tech stack that you won't touch that you would actually not walk, but run away from? (laughs) >> Well, I wouldn't say that we're running away from anything, but the questions that we're asking ourselves are, is the technology that we're investing endurable? Is it advantaged and does have a growing role in the world? And if we think that those things are true, we're absolutely, thrilled to invest behind those things. If there are things that we feel like, that's not the case. then we would tend to shy away from those investments. We've certainly found opportunities in businesses that people perceived as one, but we believe to be another. >> Well, so, let me ask you specifically about Nutanix. I mean, clearly they achieved escape velocity. One of the few companies actually, from last decade, it was Nutanix pure, not a whole lot of others that actually were able to maintain independence as a public company. What do you see as their durability? They're, moat if you will. >> Yeah, absolutely, well clearly we think that it's a very durable and very advantaged business. Yeah, thus the investment. Look, we think that Nutanix has been able to offer the best hyperconverged infrastructure product in the market bar none. One that is got the best ease of use is the most nimble and flexible for customers. And you just see that resulting customer feedback. And also that plays across very heterogeneous architectures in a way that it's really powerful. Because of that we think that they're best positioned to be able to leverage that technology as they have been, to continue to play across both public and private hybrid cloud environments. And so we're excited to back them in that journey. It really starts from solving an acute customer paying point, better than anybody else can. And we're looking to back them to continue to expand that vision. >> Yeah, well, I've talked to a lot of Nutanix customers, over the years and that is the fundamental value proposition it's really simple, very high, customer satisfaction. So, that makes a lot of sense. Well, Dave, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE and participating in theCUBE on Cloud. Really appreciate your perspectives, wish you best of luck. And hopefully we can do this again in the future. Maybe face to face >> Yeah, face to face maybe someday. Dave, I really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure and good luck with the rest of your interviews. >> All right, thank you. Well keep it right there, everybody for more Cube on Cloud. This is Dave Vellante, we'll be right back. (soft music)

(funky music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a Cube Conversation. >> Hi, welcome to another Wikibon digital community event, this one sponsored by BMC Software. Every organization faces the challenge of how to do service management and operations management better. The ideal is to start bringing them together, but traditionally, they've been undertaken by different groups, often utilizing different tools. And that's what we're going to talk about today in today's digital community event. What can we do to improve our digital business operations, competitiveness, and customer experience, by doing a better job of bringing together those core resources that handle service management and operations management activities. As with all digital community events, this one's going to feature some upfront conversations with a number of thought leaders in this crucial space, and then we're going to run a crowd chat, which will be your opportunity to share your insights, ask your questions, and ultimately, communicate with others like you in the community that focuses on this important issue. So stay through to the end and help us participate in that digital community event. Now, recently, I had an opportunity to attend BMC Helix's Immersion Day, and while there, theCUBE was able to conduct a number of different interviews. One of the best ones we had was a great conversation with Nayaki Nayyar, who is the president of service management and operations management at the BMC Helix division, and Mihir Shukla, who is the CEO of Automation Anywhere. Let's hear what they had to say about the potential of bringing service management and operations management together. >> So, Nayaki, I want to start with you. A year ago, we started on this journey of how this new digital services platform is going to evolve to do more types of work for people. How has BMC's Helix platform evolved in that time? >> So, if you remember last time, it was almost a year back when we launched Helix, which was all around taking the service management capability that we had on prem, made it available in Cloud, containerized, so customers can run in cloud of their choice, and provided experience through various channels, bought as a channel of that customer experience. This is what we had released last time, we call it the three C's for Helix, everything in cloud, containerized, with cognitive capabilities, so customers can transform their experience. In this version, what we are extending Helix is with the operations side, so all the ITOM capabilities that we have in our platform are now a part of Helix, so we have one end-to-end platform, so that customers can discover every asset that they have on prem and cloud, monitor those assets, detect any anomalies, service both for lines of business and for IT, remediate any issues that happen, vulnerabilities that are there in the system, and automatically optimize capacity and cost and holistically, this whole closed loop of operations and service coming together is what this next wave of innovations that we are launching with BMC Helix. >> So, Mihir, Nayaki's talked about, very successfully, and Helix has been a very successful platform for improving user experience, but up front I noted that we're not just talking about human beings as users anymore, we're now talking about software as users. RPA, robotic process automation, is a central feature of some of these new trends. Tell us a little bit about how robotic process automation is driving an increased need for this kind of digital service in operations management capability. >> Sure, think in a high level, you have to think of the new organization as augmented organization that are human and bots working side by side, each doing what they're best at. And so in a specific example of a service organization, where BMC Helix is taking this is, think of this as a utility, where the way you plug it into an electricity outlet and switch on the light and you get the electricity, you plug into the BMC Helix, and behind it you have augmented workflows of chart bots, RPA bots, human beings, each doing what they're best at, and giving a far superior customer experience, unlike any other. That is happening now, and that's the future of service industry. >> But when you plug a human, so to speak, metaphorically, into that system, there's a certain amount of time, there's a certain amount of training, and as a consequence you can have a little bit more predictable scale. That doesn't mean that you don't end up with a lot of complexity, but RPA seems, the potential of RPA seems that you're going to increase the rate at which these users, in this case, digital users, are going to enter into the system, you don't have a training regimen you can attach to them, they have to be tested, they have to be discovered, they have to be put in operation with reliability, how is that ultimately driving the need for some of these new capabilities? >> I think if you think of these bots as digital workers, you almost have to go through the same process that you would go through human beings. You onboard them, in terms of, you configure them, you train them with cognitive capabilities, and then the one difference is they monitor themselves, without any bias, they can give their own performance rating card. But the beauty of this is when human and bots work together, because there are some functions that the bots can do well and then at some point they can hand off to the human beings, and human beings do some of the more interesting work that is based on judgment call, customer service, all of that. So that the combination is the end goal for everybody. >> And to add to what Mihir said, right, that customer experience, whether you're providing an experience to employees or consumers or end customers, that is the ultimate goal, that's the ultimate result of what you want to get, and the speed at which you provide that experience is the accuracy at which you provide experience, the cost at which you provide that experience becomes a comparative differentiation, which is where all this automation, this augmentation that they're doing with humans and bots, is what enables us to do that, right? For all large enterprise customers, major service organizations trying to transform into that future goal. >> But increasingly it seems as though the things that we have to do, to orchestrate and administrate, more users, digital and human, undertaking more complex tasks where each is best applied, is really driving a lot of new data, as I mentioned upfront, an enormous amount of new software, and you said new experiences, but those experiences have to be reliable, have to be secure, they have to be predictable. So that suggests this overwhelming impact of all of these capabilities. You talk about a digital tsunami. What are some of the key things that you think enterprises are going to have to do to start engaging that? >> Yeah, and whether we call it revolution, whether we call it digital transformation, I think what we all are experiencing is a tsunami, tech tsunami, right, tsunami of clouds where you have professional clouds, private clouds, hybrid clouds, managed clouds. Tsunami of devices, not just the mobile devices, but also as everything is getting connected, IoT devices. Tsunami of channels, as an end user, I want to experience that in the channel of my preference, Slack as a channel, SM as a channel. A tsunami of bots, of conversation bots and RPA bots, so in this tsunami, I think what everyone is trying to figure out is, how do they manage this explosion? It's humanly impossible to do it all manually you have to augment it, with of course, intelligence AIML, but then of course bots become a big part of that augmentation to orchestrate all of that back to back process. >> I would say that this is no longer nice to have, because if you look at it from a more consumer's perspective, last 20 years of digital technologies from Amazons and Googles of the world, Netflix and others, they have created this mindset of instant customer gratification. And we all been trained for it, so what was acceptable five years ago is no longer acceptable in our own lives. And so this new standard of instant result, instant outcome, instant respond, instant delivery, we just expect it, right? Once your end consumer begins to do that, we as a business no longer have a choice, that's writing on the wall. And so what these new platforms are doing, like with BMC Helix and Automation Anywhere, is delivering that instant gratification, right? And when you think about it more and more of the new customers that are millennials, they don't know any other way. So for them, this is the only experience they will relate to, so again, this is not nice to have. It is the only way world will operate, right? >> We're going to turn back to the conversation that I had with Nayaki and Mihir shortly, but first, let's see what BMC's actually doing as they try to bring together service management and operations management, by watching a quick demo that they've prepared. (techno music) (music continues) >> Great demonstration of how these technologies are coming together in a real world sense. Now let's hear more of the conversation I had with Nayaki and Mihir about bringing together service management and operations management, but specifically focusing on how this class of technology is going to be extended, and made even more powerful for business as they think about not just IT, but other classes of automation. Let's hear what they had to say. >> So if you look at large organizations, they have vast amount of applications. Sometimes 400, 800, few thousand. And what we have been doing historically is using people as a human bridges between these applications, and we have operated that way for too long, and that's the world today. >> So humans are the interface, they're the system interfaces. >> Humans are the bridges between applications, and we often call it a swivel chair operations, that's an easiest way to describe it. So what Automation Anywhere does, is it offers this technology platform, robotic process automation, AI in an RTX platform, that integrates all of it together into a seamless automation bot that can go across, and with AI it can make intelligent choices. And so now we can take that, combined with the BMC Helix, and you have a seamless service platform that can deliver a superior experience. >> So we've got now the swivel chair users, now being software, which means that we can discover them more easily, we can monitor them more easily, and that feeds Helix. >> Absolutely, so you know in our consumer world, in our day to day life, we are used to a certain experience of how we consume data or consume experiences with our TVs and all the channels. That experience that we have in our day to day life is what people expect when they walk into the company, right, walk into the enterprise, which every IT organization is trying to figure out how do they get to that level of maturity. So this is what the combination of what we are doing with Helix and Automation Anywhere, brings that consumer grid experiences into an enterprise world. >> So Mihir, when we think about RPA, we're applying it in interesting and innovative ways, no question about it. But there are certain patterns of success, give us some visibility into what you are seeing leads to success, and then what's the future of RPA, how's that going to evolve over the next few years? >> Sure, so RPA has been deployed across virtually every industry and virtually every department. So there are many ways to get started and all of them are right. But often we find is that you can either start in a central organization wherein that organization is doing everything centrally. It is a great way to get started, but eventually we learn that the federated way's the best way to end. Where hundreds of offices all over the world, if you're especially a large organization, each business unit is doing it with IT providing governance and central security and policies, and actual bots running and being implemented all over the world. Eventually for a large-scale transformation, there is a common pattern we have seen among successful customers. >> And where do you think this pattern going to evolve, as enterprises gain more familiarity with it, innovate in new and interesting ways, and as Automation Anywhere and others advance the state of the art, where do you think it's going to end up? >> The rate it's going is, is I define it as an app store experience or a Google Play experience. So if you think about how we operate our mobile devices today, if you want something on your device, you will look for an app that does that. We are getting to a point where there is bot for everything, and a digital worker for everything, so if you need certain job done, you first go to a bot store, that is an Automation Anywhere website, look for a bot that does something, hire or download that bot, get the work done, and it comes prebuilt like many there are works with BMC Helix, and many others. So that is your first way you will look for getting your work done in a new bot economy, and if there's no bot available, then you look for other options. It will transform how we work and how we think of work. >> In many respects, it's the gig economy with perfect contractor, right? And it leads to some very interesting challenges, ultimately, when we start thinking about services. So Nayaki, based on what Mihir just talked about, where does digital services go as RPA joins other classes of users in creating those new experiences at new profit points and new value propositions? >> It becomes a compare of how you provide that service, can become a big competitive differentiation for financial institutions, for Telcos, which is a service industry, right, you provide that service, and like to Mihir's point, when the user hits that switch, they expect the light to come on, so if I'm an end user, the consumer, wanting a service from my Telco provider or from my financial institution, I expect that service to be instantaneous, and the highest accuracy, accuracy at which you provide is going to start driving competitive differentiation from financial institution to financial institution, Telco to Telco, and that's how I see companies differentiating and really surviving or thriving in the long term. >> Now let's hear from a really important partner, a CDO, someone who's thinking about how these technologies are going to be applied to the front lines of business change. Sanjay Srivastava is the CDO at Genpact, and he and I had a great conversation at BMC Immersion Days about what this means to digital business transformation. How will service management and operations management in combination accelerate and make more successful businesses' efforts to transform digitally. Let's hear what Sanjay had to say. >> So tell us a little bit about, what is a digital service outcome and why is it so important? >> Yeah, well I think the reality is that what technology is doing is it's disintermediating the ecosystem, so many of the industries are clients-operated, and they have to go back and reimagine their value proposition at the core of what they do with the use of new, innovative technologies, and it's that intersection of new capabilities, of new innovative business models that really use emerging technologies, but intersect them with their business models, with their business processes, and the requirements of their clients, and help them rethink, reimagine, and deliver their new value proposition. That's really what it's all about. >> So a digital service outcome would then be the things that the business must do and must do well, but ideally, with a different experience or with a different degree of flexibility and agility, or with a different cost profile, have I got that right? >> Correct. >> So when we think about that, what are some of the key elements of a digital service success? >> We like to think about three critical success factors in driving any digital transformation. The first one is the notion of experience, and what I mean by that is not user interface for a piece of software, but the journey of a customer, an employee, a provider, a partner, in engaging with you and your business model. When we think about journey mapping that scientifically, we think about design, thinking on the back of that, and we think about re-imagining what the new experience looks like. One of the largest things we've got in the industry is digital transformation on the back of cost take out of productivity or efficiency is insufficient drive and optimize the value that digital can bring. And using experience as the compass, as sort of the north star in that journey is a meaningful differentiator and driver of business benefit, so that's number one. I think the second area that's become increasingly apparent is the intersection of domain with digital. And the thinking there is that to materialize the benefit of digital in an enterprise, you have to intersect it with the specifics of that business, how users interact, what clients seek, how does business actually happen? We talk about artificial intelligence a lot, we do a lot of work in AI as an example, and the key thing about machine learning is goal orientation, and what is goal orientation? It's about understanding the specifics of the environments, you can actually orient the goal of the machine learning algorithm to deliver high accuracy results. And it's something that can often easily get overlooked, so indexing on the two halves of the whole, the yin and the yang, the piece around digital, and the innovative technologies, and being able to leverage and take advantage of them, but equally, be founded in domain, understand the environment, and use that knowledge to drive the right materialization of the end outcome. And that's the second critical success factor, I think, to get it right. I think the third one is the notion of how do you build a framework for innovation? You know, it's not the sort of thing where a large fortune company, Fortune 500 companies can necessarily experiment and it's a little bit of a go happy go lucky strategy, doesn't really work, you have to innovate at scale, you have to do it in a fundamental fashion, you have to do it as a critical success factor. And so one of the biggest things we focus on is how do you innovate at the edge? Innovation must be at the edge, this is where the rubber meets the road. But governance has to be at the core. >> Well let me build on that for a second, 'cause you said innovation's at the edge, so basically that means where the brand promise is being enacted for the customer, and that could be at an industrial automation setting or it could be in just making a recommendation, it could be any number of things, but it's where the value proposition is realized for the customer. >> Correct, that's exactly right, and that's where innovation must happen. So as a large corporation, you must be able, it's important to set up a framework that allows you to do innovation at the edge, otherwise it's not meaningful innovation if you, "Well, it's just a lot of busy work." And yet as you do that, and as you change your business model, as you bring new components to the equation, how do you drive governance, and it's increasingly becoming more important, you think about, we're going to be in a AI first world increasingly, more and more that's the reality of the world we're going in, and in that AI first world, I work here in Palo Alto, walk into my office, a couple of hundred people any given day. If tomorrow morning I walked in and 100 people didn't show up for work, I would know right away, because I can see them. Now fast forward to an environment where we have digital workers, we have automation bots, we have conversational AI Chatbots. And in that world, understanding which of my AI components are on, which ones are off, which ones showed up for work today, which ones fell sick, and really being able to understand that governance, and that's just the productivity piece of it. Then you think about data and security, AI changes complete dimensions on that. And you think about bias and explainability, it just become increasingly important, a notion of a digital ethics board, and thinking about ethics more pervasively. So I think that companies and clients we serve that do really well in digital transformation are those that key in on those three things, the notion of experience is the true compass for how you drive transformation. The ability to intermix domain and digital in a meaningfully intersecting fashion. And to be thoughtful, proactive, and get governance right up front in the journey to come. >> So let me again build on that a little bit, 'cause people are increasingly recognizing that we're not going to centralize with cloud, we're going to greater distribute. We're going to distribute data more, we're going to distribute function more, but you just added another dimension, that some of us have been thinking about for a long time, and that's this notion of distributing authorities so that an individual at the edge can make the decision based on the data and the resources that are available, with the appropriate set of authorities, and that has to be handled at a central, in a overall coherent governant way. So that leads to the next question. >> And just before you go there, I mean I think the best example of that, is we do that, most corporations do that really well in the financial scheme of things. Businesses at the edge make decisions on a day to day basis on pricing and relationships and so on and so forth, and yet there's a central other committee that looks through the financials and makes sure it meets the right requirements and has the right framework, and much in the same way, we're going to start seeing digital ethics committees that become part of these large corporations as they think about digitizing the business. >> Governance at the end of the day is how do you orchestrate multiple divergent claims against a common set of assets, and being able to do that is absolutely essential, and it leads to this notion of we've got these ideas of digital business, digital services and operations management. How are we going to weave them together utilizing some of these new technologies, new fabrics that are now possible to both achieve the outcomes we're talking about at scale and at speed? >> Yeah, well the technology capabilities are improving really well in that area, and so the good news is they're the set of tools that are now available that give you the ingredients, the components of the recipe that's required to make dinner, if you will. The work that needs to happen is actually how to orchestrate that, to figure out which components need to come in, and how do you pull together a vertical stack that has the right components to meet your needs today, and more importantly, to address the needs of the future, because this is changing like no other time in history. >> You want options with everything you do now, you want to make sure that you have a string of options for the future, and it's especially important here. >> That's right, that's exactly right. And the quick framework we've established there is sort of the three-legged stool of, how do you integrate quickly, how do you modularize your investments and then how do you govern them into one integrated whole, and those become really important. I'll give you examples, much of the work we do, we'll work with a consumer bank for instance, and they'll want to do a robotic process automation engagement, we'll run them for nine months, they'll get 1800 robots up and running. And the next question becomes, well now we have all this data that we didn't really have, because now we have an RPA running, how do I learn some machine learning insights from there, and so we then work with them to actually derive some insights and get these questions answered. And then the engagement changes to, well now that we have this pattern recognition then we understand more questions are going to be asked, how do I respond to those questions, A, automatically, and before they get asked, this notion of next best action. And so you think about that journey of a traditional client, the requirements change from robotics to machine learning to conversational AI to something else, and keeping that string of investments, that innovative sort of streak true, and yet being able to manage, govern, and protect the investments, that's the key role. >> We want to thank all the thought leaders that participated in preparing their thoughts for this digital community event, especially the folks at BMC Software. But now here's your opportunity to weigh in on how you see service management and operations management coming together in your business. How's it going to affect your IT organization, your IT organization's ability to serve your business, and your business overall? This is your opportunity to participate in a crowd chat where the community comes together and shares insights, asks each other questions, and engages with these thought leaders to try to get the answers that you need to move forward on the journey to bring together service management and operations management in your shop. Let's crowd chat!

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next, 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi this is Peter Burris from Wikibon SiliconANGLE, stepping in for John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Continuing our CUBE coverage here at Google Next 2018 from Moscone South, an impressive array of talent, and that includes my next guest, Jon Thomas. Jon is the director of Product Management for Digital Services Management Cloud Services at BMC Software. Welcome to theCUBE, Jon. >> Thank you for having me. >> You know this is a really an interesting topic for me, because as an old infrastructure hack, someone who's been in IT operations in a couple different worlds, as well as being an Industry Analyst in infrastructure, it's important that we not lose sight of the fact that there's a lot of expertise out there regarding how we run complex systems, that the Cloud companies are demonstrating, but the business as an adopt Cloud services, nonetheless, has to sustain. So talk to us a little bit about what BMC is doing to try to bring some of that knowledge over 30 years of working in the data center, and apply it for businesses as they become better Cloud citizens. >> Yeah, thank you for asking. So, BMC is worked with some of the largest IT organizations. In fact, over 80% of the Fortune 500 use BMC software to help them manage IT. At this point when I go out and talk to those customers, they're all on a Cloud journey. And the really exciting thing is that the conversations stop becoming if we're going to use public cloud, but it's going to be a how to use public cloud, and really at this point, it's about how do we use it in a way that we can scale that out, scale that innovation out within the organization. And we're seeing that those organizations are actually, in a lot of times, they're reorganizing in order to really facilitate that innovation. And so BMC, like you said, is taking that expertise that we've had and helping them manage the data center asset, and to apply the same learnings that we had with a new spin to actually work with the public cloud as they start to adopt public cloud. >> So, give us an example of a few of the more modern approaches in the cloud that are being employed by BMC to ensure that you get the type of control, manageability, and automation, that BMC customers have gotten used to on-premise. >> Yeah, I mean, one great example is for a very long time BMC has had the BladeLogic Product Line, and we've helped customers to make sure that they can harden their servers and their network devices and their databases on premise. Now as they move the public cloud, there's a big question, what does it mean to even harden a public cloud configuration? And a lot of organizations are trying to understand what is their responsibility in that shared responsibility model. And so one thing that we've done is take that knowledge about hardening assets and apply it to public cloud resources, and also just in the way that we do it. You know if you think about traditionally, IT's gotten a bad rap as being Captain No, and now with the public cloud and the ability of application teams that go directly to the public cloud, IT has to just change the way that it's providing its services to their consumers, their internal consumers. So, now instead of putting a big block in the process, instead we're enabling IT to provide services. Because application teams, they don't want to be insecure. They're not out there nefariously trying to break things and leave data out there. >> They may sometimes not know when they're not being secure. >> Exactly, and so IT's new and changing role is about how do you provide services and consultation to your business to be a facilitator. And so with the products that we're offering now, we think we've taken that history, and that legacy, and our heritage, and hardening in that data center, and then applying that same model to the public cloud, but in a model that fits for how you leverage public cloud resources. >> I presume that a customer that decides to go with, say, Google or Google Cloud-- >> Yeah. >> Or decides to go with Amazon or AWS, is going to use your product and exploit the best or the capabilities of both clouds. as they are uniquely provided, is that accurate? >> Absolutely. Yeah when we talk to our customers, very few of them have the luxury of only using one public cloud vendor. Whether it's based off of decisions from application teams or even acquisitions, a lot of times they have to manage across multiple clouds on top of all of that on-premise infrastructure that they still have to manage. And so we do, we try to help to simplify that complexity for them by bringing it all together into one visibility, into what is the state of the risk of their cloud services. >> But to employ, or to be able to exploit the best that each of those platforms has, while at the same time from an overall manageability standpoint, being able to provide a common view to those different resources, have I got that right? >> Exactly, exactly. >> Now, how does that tie back in to the data center? One of the things that we've seen over the course of the last week is something that Wikibon has been calling it your private cloud. The idea that there are going to be circumstances when an enterprise's data requires that you move the cloud to the data, as opposed to moving the data to the cloud. >> Yeah. >> And there's no doubt there's going to be a lot of data that's going to, for any number of physical, legal, election property control reasons, will be on-premise, or within the confines of the business. So, how do you envision that the practices and tooling and automation regimes that are currently on-premise, and what we're doing now on the cloud are going to start together, come together over the next few years. So we can put data where it naturally should be. >> Yeah, I'm glad you asked that. It's just, some of the tools and some of the reasons that we're able to help our customers on their cloud journey is because we have that knowledge of their on-premise infrastructure. So being able to do things like discover what they have on-prem, and understand the dependencies, helps us to be really uniquely positioned to help them with cloud migration. And migration might not be just from on-premise to cloud, it could be from cloud back to on-premise, it could be between clouds or even between different regions based off of the need of the business at that time. >> So that's migration, what about overall classes of integration that might allow a DevOps person, for example, to be able to look at an application that spans multiple places, or multiple locations, but still be able to administrate as a coherent resource? >> Yeah, so in that same discovery capabilities that we have, we've extended those out to the public cloud as well, so we can discover on-premise, in the public cloud, so that whenever you need it, you can go to a single place and understand what's the state of your infrastructure, no matter where it exists. >> So what do you think of Google Next? Are you having good conversations with customers? Do you see Google Cloud coming on more? And how does BMC going to make it easier for everybody? >> Absolutely, we're really excited by the progress that Google Cloud is making and we're seeing a lot of adoption in particular certain segments of our businesses are really, really fond of Google Cloud. And what we're doing is trying to make sure that from the tools that we have that we're integrating into Google Cloud, so that it gives our customers that choice to pick what's the right cloud for them at the right time and for the right circumstances, and then still get that simplification by putting it all into the same tool where they can get in the single view. >> Now every company has a challenge as they migrate to the cloud, both from a standpoint of where the applications are being developed, where the applications are being run. But also, strategically, the cloud has a pretty significant impact. BMC seems to be one of those companies that's able to partly, I would presume in large measure, because of 30 years of really working with the customers is having a relatively facile time enacting that transformation. Give us a sense, especially in the Product Management Committee, thinking about how BMC's going to provide value in the cloud. What is BMC think the future of cloud and cloud management looks like? >> Well, we see it's evolving. Right now a lot of organizations are creating centralized Cloud Centers of Excellence just to figure out how, like I said, to scale out best practices within their organization. And right now, those teams really have a couple of areas of focus. Number one is the migration, so figuring out how to do their migration projects. Number two is how do we do security of those resources, so being able to understand what's their risk posture, and set up some governance around that, we say a cloud with guard rails. And the last thing is last year was really a time of customers coming to us because they had 10 ex-million dollar surprise builds. And so one of the things that we want to do to help facilitate the use of public cloud, because we believe that it can be as safe or safer, as efficient or more efficient, is to take away those concerns that would keep a company from feeling like they're able to migrate more workloads to the cloud, or build more applications to the cloud. >> So, Jon, I'm going to do kind of a lightning round here. >> Alright. >> I'm going to put something in front of you and I want you to respond as best as you can from a standpoint of how the value proposition's going to play out. Let's start with speed to value. How does the tooling that you're providing improve speed to value, especially to those companies that are looking for greater flexibility than strategies? >> Well, speed to value, one of the biggest things is in order to have real data up in the public cloud, organizations just need to understand what is their risk posture, make sure that those services that they're creating are hardened. And so with our true side cloud security product, we're able to give them that visibility so that they can get the check mark to move quickly to go to market with the solutions they're creating in the public cloud. >> The second thing, modern application development, containers, Kubernetes, those types of things. >> Yeah, absolutely. In the same platform that we support the public cloud, it's really all new modern innovations. So we also support Kubernetes, and Docker as well, so you bring that all into the same platform and the same visibility. >> Big data, advanced analytics, and AI. >> So as companies want to leverage AI, that's one of the examples where they're trying to figure out as they do it, what are their costs going to do? New services, we've heard stories where people turn on a brand new service and then find out that that service costs them a lot of money. And so with some of our expense management for a cloud tools, we're able to do baselines of their spending and start to forecast out, identify when you have something that is going to come and surprise you later on. >> Can't talk about cloud without talking security. >> Absolutely. Yeah, so through true side cloud security, we're helping organizations to not only identify where they might have a risky configurations that might leave them open to data breaches, but also built in automated remediation so that you can take action, and to bring yourself to a very safe place. >> One of the big challenges of the cloud on a global basis is privacy, trust, local. How does GDPR fit into this mix, for example? >> Well, one of the requirements that GDPR is really to have state of the art, that's what they say. And so you have to have state of the art controls in place. So with our solution, especially just like cloud security, that allows organizations to be able to not only have state of the art prosthesis in place and tools to access their risk, but to also prove it. And I think that's a big aspect. >> IoT. >> IoT is also something that's coming up a lot in our customer base, so being able to manage those same cloud resources in terms of the cost of the resources and the security as well. >> Serverless? >> Yeah, Serverless. In fact, internally when we developed our application, we used a lot of Serverless. So we love cloud native artifacts, we believe that they really can help application teams to develop applications quicker. And so one of the things that we provide is the ability to look at hardening of applications built on cloud native resources. >> Now you've already mentioned cost, but what's it cost to? How do you use the tooling to get the most out of your expenditures in the cloud? >> So, first off we give you the visibility in to what you're spending, and then run that through machine learning to search and do forecasting to help you identify when you're going to overrun your cost, but the second part of that is to actually look at optimization. So we're examining out your accounts to understand, do you have idle VM's that are out there? Do you have ones that were over revision? Different ways that we can help bring down your cost to make it sure that your maximizing your cost in the public cloud. >> Okay, so, the next two years at BMC, going to continue to drive its affinity with these new cloud-based workloads. What are you most excited about as you look out at working with customers over the next couple of years? >> Really looking at the adoption going bigger. And, right now, and they talked about it in The Keynote this morning, the number of workloads in the public cloud, it is still relatively small to what they have on-premise. And so we believe that as organizations start to do hardware refreshes, starts to do data center consolidation projects, they're going to start looking into public cloud more and more, and we're going to see more and more resources making their way to the public cloud, and we find that very exciting. >> A wide opportunity for thought leadership, isn't there Jon? >> Absolutely. >> Alright, Jon Thomas, who's been crucial to driving a lot of the product management efforts around some of BMC's cloud management software. Thanks very much for being on theCUBE, Jon. >> Thanks for having me. >> Okay, we'll be right back with more coverage from Google Next, thanks for watching.