Upbeat music plays >> Voice Over: TheCUBE presents Ignite 22, brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >> Good morning everyone. Welcome to theCUBE. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. We are live at Palo Alto Networks Ignite. This is the 10th annual Ignite. There's about 3,000 people here, excited to really see where this powerhouse organization is taking security. Dave, it's great to be here. Our first time covering Ignite. People are ready to be back. They.. and security is top. It's a board level conversation. >> It is the other Ignite, I like to call it cuz of course there's another big company has a conference name Ignite, so I'm really excited to be here. Palo Alto Networks, a company we've covered for a number of years, as we just wrote in our recent breaking analysis, we've called them the gold standard but it's not just our opinion, we've backed it up with data. The company's on track. We think to do close to 7 billion in revenue by 2023. That's double it's 2020 revenue. You can measure it with execution, market cap M and A prowess. I'm super excited to have the CEO here. >> We have the CEO here, Nikesh Arora joins us from Palo Alto Networks. Nikesh, great to have you on theCube. Thank you for joining us. >> Well thank you very much for having me Lisa and Dave >> Lisa: It was great to see your keynote this morning. You said that, you know fundamentally security is a data problem. Well these days every company has to be a data company. Grocery stores, gas stations, car dealers. How is Palo Alto networks making customers, these data companies, more secure? >> Well Lisa, you know, (coughs) I've only done cybersecurity for about four, four and a half years so when I came to the industry I was amazed to see how security is so reactive as opposed to proactive. We should be able to stop bad threats, right? as they're happening. But I think a lot of threats get through because we don't have the right infrastructure and the right tooling and right products in there. So I think we've been working hard for the last four and a half years to turn it around so we can have consistent data flow across an enterprise and then mine that data for threats and anomalous behavior and try and protect our customers. >> You know the problem, I wrote this, this weekend, the problem in cybersecurity is well understood, you put up that Optiv graph and it's like 8,000 companies >> Yes >> and I think you mentioned your keynote on average, you know 30 to 40 tools, maybe 50, at least 20, >> Yes. >> from the folks that I talked to. So, okay, great, but actually solving that problem is not trivial. To be a consolidator, I mean, everybody wants to consolidate tools. So in your three to four years and security as you well know, it's, you can't fake security. It's a really, really challenging topic. So when you joined Palo Alto Networks and you heard that strategy, I know you guys have been thinking about this for some time, what did you see as the challenges to actually executing on that and how is it that you've been able to sort of get through that knot hole. >> So Dave, you know, it's interesting if you look at the history of cybersecurity, I call them the flavor of the decade, a flare, you know a new threat vector gets created, very large market gets created, a solution comes through, people flock, you get four or five companies will chase that opportunity, and then they become leaders in that space whether it's firewalls or endpoints or identity. And then people stick to their swim lane. The problem is that's a very product centric approach to security. It's not a customer-centric approach. The customer wants a more secure enterprise. They don't want to solve 20 different solutions.. problems with 20 different point solutions. But that's kind of how the industry's grown up, and it's been impossible for a large security company in one category, to actually have a substantive presence in the next category. Now what we've been able to do in the last four and a half years is, you know, from our firewall base we had resources, we had intellectual capability from a security perspective and we had cash. So we used that to pay off our technical debt. We acquired a bunch of companies, we created capability. In the last three years, four years we've created three incremental businesses which are all on track to hit a billion dollars the next 12 to 18 months. >> Yeah, so it's interesting on Twitter last night we had a little conversation about acquirers and who was a good, who was not so good. It was, there was Oracle, they came up actually very high, they'd done pretty, pretty good Job, VMware was on the list, IBM, Cisco, ServiceNow. And if you look at IBM and Cisco's strategy, they tend to be very services heavy, >> Mm >> right? How is it that you have been able to, you mentioned get rid of your technical debt, you invested in that. I wonder if you could, was it the, the Cloud, even though a lot of the Cloud was your own Cloud, was that a difference in terms of your ability to integrate? Because so many companies have tried it in the past. Oracle I think has done a good job, but it took 'em 10 to 12 years, you know, to, to get there. What was the sort of secret sauce? Is it culture, is it just great engineering? >> Dave it's a.. thank you for that. I think, look, it's, it's a mix of everything. First and foremost, you know, there are certain categories we didn't play in so there was nothing to integrate. We built a capability in a category in automation. We didn't have a product, we acquired a company. It's a net new capability in instant response. We didn't have a capability. It was net new capability. So there was, there was, other than integrating culturally and into the organization into our core to market processes there was no technical integration needed. Most of our technical integration was needed in our Cloud platform, which we bought five or six companies, we integrated then we just bought one recently called cyber security as well, which is going to get integrated in the Cloud platform. >> Dave: Yeah. >> And the thing is like, the Cloud platform is net new in the industry. We.. nobody's created a Cloud security platform yet, so we're working hard to create it because we don't want to replicate the mistakes of the past, that were made in enterprise security, in Cloud security. So it's a combination of cultural integration it's a combination of technical integration. The two things we do differently I think, than most people in the industry is look, we have no pride of, you know of innovations. Like, if somebody else has done it, we respect it and we'll acquire it, but we always want to acquire number one or number two in their category. I don't want number three or four. There's three or four for a reason and there still leaves one or two out there to compete with. So we've always acquired one or two, one. And the second thing, which is as important is most of these companies are in the early stage of development. So it's very important for the founding team to be around. So we spend a lot of time making sure they stick around. We actually make our people work for them. My principle is, listen, if they beat us in the open market with all our resources and our people, then they deserve to run this as opposed to us. So most of our new product categories are run by founders of companies required. >> So a little bit of Jack Welch, a little bit of Franks Lubens is a, you know always deference to the founders. But go ahead Lisa. >> Speaking of cultural transformation, you were mentioning your keynote this morning, there's been a significant workforce transformation at Palo Alto Networks. >> Yeah >> Talk a little bit about that, cause that's a big challenge, for many organizations to achieve. Sounds like you've done it pretty well. >> Well you know, my old boss, Eric Schmidt, used to say, 'revenue solves all known problems'. Which kind of, you know, it is a part joking, part true, but you know as Dave mentioned, we've doubled or two and a half time the revenues in the last four and a half years. That allows you to grow, that allows you to increase headcount. So we've gone from four and a half thousand people to 14,000 people. Good news is that's 9,500 people are net new to the company. So you can hire a whole new set of people who have new skills, new capabilities and there's some attrition four and a half thousand, some part of that turns over in four and a half years, so we effectively have 80% net new people, and the people we have, who are there from before, are amazing because they've built a phenomenal firewall business. So it's kind of been right sized across the board. It's very hard to do this if you're not growing. So you got to focus on growing. >> Dave: It's like winning in sports. So speaking of firewalls, I got to ask you does self-driving cars need brakes? So if I got a shout out to my friend Zeus Cararvela so like that's his line about why you need firewalls, right? >> Nikesh: Yes. >> I mean you mentioned it in your keynote today. You said it's the number one question that you get. >> and I don't get it why P industry observers don't go back and say that's, this is ridiculous. The network traffic is doubling or tripling. (clears throat) In fact, I gave an interesting example. We shut down our data centers, as I said, we are all on Google Cloud and Amazon Cloud and then, you know our internal team comes in, we'd want a bigger firewall. I'm like, why do you want a bigger firewall? We shut down our data centers as well. The traffic coming in and out of our campus is doubled. We need a bigger firewall. So you still need a firewall even if you're in the Cloud. >> So I'm going to come back to >> Nikesh: (coughs) >> the M and A strategy. My question is, can you be both best of breed and develop a comprehensive suite number.. part one and part one A of that is do you even have to, because generally sweets win out over best of breed. But what, how do you, how do you respond? >> Well, you know, this is this age old debate and people get trapped in that, I think in my mind, and let me try and expand the analogy which I tried to do up in my keynote. You know, let's assume that Oracle, Microsoft, Dynamics and Salesforce did not exist, okay? And you were running a large company of 50,000 people and your job was to manage the customer process which easier to understand than security. And I said, okay, guess what? I have a quoting system and a lead system but the lead system doesn't talk to my coding system. So I get leads, but I don't know who those customers. And I write codes for a whole new set of customers and I have a customer database. Then when they come as purchase orders, I have a new database with all the customers who've bought something from me, and then when I go get them licensing I have a new database and when I go have customer support, I have a fifth database and there are customers in all five databases. You'll say Nikesh you're crazy, you should have one customer database, otherwise you're never going to be able to make this work. But security is the same problem. >> Dave: Mm I should.. I need consistency in data from suit to nuts. If it's in Cloud, if you're writing code, I need to understand the security flaws before they go into deployment, before they go into production. We for somehow ridiculously have bought security like IT. Now the difference between IT and security is, IT is required to talk to each other, so a Dell server and HP server work very similarly but a Palo Alto firewall and a Checkpoint firewall Fortnight firewall work formally differently. And then how that transitions into endpoints is a whole different ball game. So you need consistency in data, as Lisa was saying earlier, it's a data problem. You need consistency as you traverse to the enterprise. And that's why that's the number one need. Now, when you say best of breed, (coughs) best of breed, if it's fine, if it's a specific problem that you're trying to solve. But if you're trying to make sure that's the data flow that happens, you need both best of breed, you know, technology that stops things and need integration on data. So what we are trying to do is we're trying to give people best to breed solutions in the categories they want because otherwise they won't buy us. But we're also trying to make sure we stitch the data. >> But that definition of best of breed is a little bit of nuance than different in security is what I'm hearing because that consistency >> Nikesh: (coughs) Yes, >> across products. What about across Cloud? You mentioned Google and Amazon. >> Yeah so that's great question. >> Dave: Are you building the security super Cloud, I call it, above the Cloud? >> It's, it's not, it's, less so a super Cloud, It's more like Switzerland and I used to work at Google for 10 years, not a secret. And we used to sell advertising and we decided to go into pub into display ads or publishing, right. Now we had no publishing platform so we had to be good at everybody else's publishing platform >> Dave: Mm >> but we never were able to search ads for everybody else because we only focus on our own platform. So part of it is when the Cloud guys they're busy solving security for their Cloud. Google is not doing anything about Amazon Cloud or Microsoft Cloud, Microsoft's Azure, right? AWS is not doing anything about Google Cloud or Azure. So what we do is we don't have a Cloud. Our job in providing Cloud securities, be Switzerland make sure it works consistently across every Cloud. Now if you try to replicate what we offer Prisma Cloud, by using AWS, Azure and GCP, you'd have to first of all, have three panes of glass for all three of them. But even within them they have four panes of glass for the capabilities we offer. So you could end up with 12 different interfaces to manage a development process, we give you one. Now you tell me which is better. >> Dave: Sounds like a super Cloud to me Lisa (laughing) >> He's big on super Cloud >> Uber Cloud, there you >> Hey I like that, Uber Cloud. Well, so I want to understand Nikesh, what's realistic. You mentioned in your keynote Dave, brought it up that the average organization has 30 to 50 tools, security tools. >> Nikesh: Yes, yes >> On their network. What is realistic for from a consolidation perspective where Palo Alto can come in and say, let me make this consistent and simple for you. >> Well, I'll give you your own example, right? (clears throat) We're probably sub 10 substantively, right? There may be small things here and there we do. But on a substantive protecting the enterprise perspective you be should be down to eight or 10 vendors, and that is not perfect but it's a lot better than 50, >> Lisa: Right? >> because don't forget 50 tools means you have to have capability to understand what those 50 tools are doing. You have to have the capability to upgrade them on a constant basis, learn about their new capabilities. And I just can't imagine why customers have two sets of firewalls right. Now you got to learn both the files on how to deploy both them. That's silly because that's why we need 7 million more people. You need people to understand, so all these tools, who work for companies. If you had less tools, we need less people. >> Do you think, you know I wrote about this as well, that the security industry is anomalous and that the leader has, you know, single digit, low single digit >> Yes >> market shares. Do you think that you can change that? >> Well, you know, when I started that was exactly the observation I had Dave, which you highlighted in your article. We were the largest by revenue, by small margin. And we were one and half percent of the industry. Now we're closer to three, three to four percent and we're still at, you know, like you said, going to be around $7 billion. So I see a path for us to double from here and then double from there, and hopefully as we keep doubling and some point in time, you know, I'd like to get to double digits to start with. >> One of the things that I think has to happen is this has to grow dramatically, the ecosystem. I wonder if you could talk about the ecosystem and your strategy there. >> Well, you know, it's a matter of perspective. I think we have to get more penetrated in our largest customers. So we have, you know, 1800 of the top 2000 customers in the world are Palo Alto customers. But we're not fully penetrated with all our capabilities and the same customers set, so yes the ecosystem needs to grow, but the pandemic has taught us the ecosystem can grow wherever they are without having to come to Vegas. Which I don't think is a bad thing to be honest. So the ecosystem is growing. You are seeing new players come to the ecosystem. Five years ago you didn't see a lot of systems integrators and security. You didn't see security offshoots of telecom companies. You didn't see the Optivs, the WWTs, the (indistinct) of the world (coughs) make a concerted shift towards consolidation or services and all that is happening >> Dave: Mm >> as we speak today in the audience you will find people from Google, Amazon Microsoft are sitting in the audience. People from telecom companies are sitting in the audience. These people weren't there five years ago. So you are seeing >> Dave: Mm >> the ecosystem's adapting. They're, they want to be front and center of solving the customer's problem around security and they want to consolidate capability, they need. They don't want to go work with a hundred vendors because you know, it's like, it's hard. >> And the global system integrators are key. I always say they like to eat at the trough and there's a lot of money in security. >> Yes. >> Dave: (laughs) >> Well speaking of the ecosystem, you had Thomas Curry and Google Cloud CEO in your fireside chat in the keynote. Talk a little bit about how Google Cloud plus Palo Alto Networks, the Zero Trust Partnership and what it's enable customers to achieve. >> Lisa, that's a great question. (clears his throat) Thank you for bringing it up. Look, you know the, one of the most fundamental shifts that is happening is obviously the shift to the Cloud. Now when that shift fully, sort of, takes shape you will realize if your network has changed and you're delivering everything to the Cloud you need to go figure out how to bring the traffic to the Cloud. You don't have to bring it back to your data center you can bring it straight to the Cloud. So in that context, you know we use Google Cloud and Amazon Cloud, to be able to carry our traffic. We're going from a product company to a services company in addition, right? Cuz when we go from firewalls to SASE we're not carrying your traffic. When we carry our traffic, we need to make sure we have underlying capability which is world class. We think GCP and AWS and Azure run some of the biggest and best networks in the world. So our partnership with Google is such that we use their public Cloud, we sit on top of their Cloud, they give us increased enhanced functionality so that our customers SASE traffic gets delivered in priority anywhere in the world. They give us tooling to make sure that there's high reliability. So you know, we partner, they have Beyond Corp which is their version of Zero Trust which allows you to take unmanaged devices with browsers. We have SASE, which allows you to have managed devices. So the combination gives our collective customers the ability for Zero Trust. >> Do you feel like there has to be more collaboration within the ecosystem, the security, you know, landscape even amongst competitors? I mean I think about Google acquires Mandiant. You guys have Unit 42. Should and will, like, Wendy Whitmore and maybe they already are, Kevin Mandia talk more and share more data. If security's a data problem is all this data >> Nikesh: Yeah look I think the industry shares threat data, both in private organizations as well as public and private context, so that's not a problem. You know the challenge with too much collaboration in security is you never know. Like you know, the moment you start sharing your stuff at third parties, you go out of Secure Zone. >> Lisa: Mm >> Our biggest challenge is, you know, I can't trust a third party competitor partner product. I have to treat it with as much suspicion as anything else out there because the only way I can deliver Zero Trust is to not trust anything. So collaboration in Zero Trust are a bit of odds with each other. >> Sounds like another problem you can solve >> (laughs) >> Nikesh last question for you. >> Yes >> Favorite customer or example that you think really articulates the value of what Palo Alto was delivering? >> Look you know, it's a great question, Lisa. I had this seminal conversation with a customer and I explained all those things we were talking about and the customer said to me, great, okay so what do I need to do? I said, fun, you got to trust me because you know, we are on a journey, because in the past, customers have had to take the onus on themselves of integrating everything because they weren't sure a small startup will be independent, be bought by another cybersecurity company or a large cybersecurity company won't get gobbled up and split into pieces by private equity because every one of the cybersecurity companies have had a shelf life. So you know, our aspiration is to be the evergreen cybersecurity company. We will always be around and we will always tackle innovation and be on the front line. So the customer understood what we're doing. Over the last three years we've been working on a transformation journey with them. We're trying to bring them, or we have brought them along the path of Zero Trust and we're trying to work with them to deliver this notion of reducing their meantime to remediate from days to minutes. Now that's an outcome based approach that's a partnership based approach and we'd like, love to have more and more customers of that kind. I think we weren't ready to be honest as a company four and a half years ago, but I think today we're ready. Hence my keynote was called The Perfect Storm. I think we're at the right time in the industry with the right capabilities and the right ecosystem to be able to deliver what the industry needs. >> The perfect storm, partners, customers, investors, employees. Nikesh, it's been such a pleasure having you on theCUBE. Thank you for coming to talk to Dave and me right after your keynote. We appreciate that and we look forward to two days of great coverage from your executives, your customers, and your partners. Thank you. >> Well, thank you for having me, Lisa and Dave and thank you >> Dave: Pleasure >> for what you guys do for our industry. >> Our pleasure. For Nikesh Arora and Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live at MGM Grand Hotel in Las Vegas, Palo Alto Ignite 22. Stick around Dave and I will be joined by our next guest in just a minute. (cheerful music plays out)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. (upbeat music) >> Hi, everybody, welcome to this CUBE Conversation. My name is Dave Vellante and we're here in theCUBE Studios in Marlborough, Massachusetts. We're gonna talk about storage and some of the trends that are going on in storage, and things have changed quite dramatically. It's not just about what media you're using today, you've got a lot of other considerations. Cloud, on-prem, in comes the edge, and it really drives new considerations for customers. Sundip Arora is here. He's the director of North America Storage and Big Data Solutions at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. He's gonna talk to me about some of these trends, the customer point of view, and what HPE is doing to solve some of these problems. Sundip, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Dave, thanks for having me, I'm super excited. >> So you heard my little narrative upfront about some of the big picture trends, what do you see as some of the tectonic shifts in the storage marketplace? >> Yeah, Dave. So listen, we've traveled around the continent here and I spend a lot of time with customers in North America, and what I hear from customers is their center of universe revolves around being able to map with their cloud journey and what does that mean for their data. Now, I look at our cloud operating model and I map that to HPE's own point of view. Our point of view is bringing the intelligent data platform to our customers. And when we talk about mapping the cloud operating model to our customer, what does that really mean for us? When I talk to customers, they tell me three things. It means that you have extreme cost efficiency, you've got super ease of use, and you've got resource optimization, how to utilize them in the best manner. >> So, let me ask you on that. Big Data is in your title, and one of the things that we observed early on in the big data days was it was about bringing five megabytes of code to a petabyte of data. Well, that sounded great and it was great, but it also caused problems because you're pushing, now, storage is everywhere. I mentioned the edge. So, I'm sure you're seeing that with customers. There is no more perimeter. Storage is just everywhere, wherever you want it to be. So when you talk about the cloud operating model, are you talking about bringing that experience to your data wherever that data lives? >> That's a great question. It used to be that you had an accounting system and that had a database, and that was delivering you a ton of data that you could analyze and store and read and write. And now, you've got data that's being produced at the edge, you've got point of sales systems, you've got autonomous vehicles, you've got data that's being produced on the cloud itself, and you've got data that's being produced at the core. So, what we are talking about is not just the automation of bringing that data in, but also how that data is being utilized. And to us, the way we map that challenge is through intelligence. >> Let's break down those three things: cost efficiency, ease of use, and resource optimization. Let's start with cost-efficiency. So, obviously, there's TCO. There's also the way in which I consume. The people, I presume, are looking for a different pricing model. Are you hearing that? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, as part of the cost of running their business and being able to operate like a cloud, everybody's looking at a variety of different procurement and utilization models. One of the ways HPE provides utilization model that can map to their cloud journey, a public cloud journey, is through GreenLake. The ability to use and consume data on demand, consume compute on demand, across the entire portfolio of products HPE has, essentially is what a GreenLake journey looks like. >> Let's go into ease of use. So, what do you mean by that? I mean, people, they think cloud, they think swipe the credit card and start deploying machines. What do you mean by ease of use? >> For us, ease of use translates back to how do you map to a simpler operating and support model. For us, the support model is the key for customers to be able to realize the benefits of going to the cloud. To get to a simpler support model, we use AIOps. And for us, AIOps means using a product called InfoSight. InfoSight is a product that uses deep learning and machine learning algorithms to look at a wide net of call-home data from physical resources out there and then be able to take that data and make it actionable. And the action behind that is predictiveness, the prescriptiveness of creating automated support tickets, and closing automated support tickets without anybody ever having to pick up a phone and call IT support. That InfoSight model now is being expanded across the board to all HPE products. It started with Nimble. Now InfoSight is available on 3PAR it's available on Synergy, and a recent announcement said it's also on ProLiants. And we expect that InfoSight becomes the glue, the automation AI glue, that goes across the entire portfolio of HPE products. >> So this is a great example of applying AI to data, so it's like call home taking to a whole level, isn't it? >> Yeah, it absolutely is. And in fact, what it does is it uses the call-home data that we've had for a long time with products like 3PAR, which essentially was amazing data but not being actioned on in an automated fashion. It takes that data and now, it creates an automation task around it. And many times, that automation task leads to much simpler support experience. >> Okay, the third item you mentioned was resource optimization. Let's drill down into that. I infer from that there are performance implications, there's maybe governance compliance, physical placement, can you elaborate, add some color to that? >> I think it's all of the above that you just talked about. It's definitely about applying the right performance level to the right set of applications. We call this application-aware storage. The ability to be able to understand which application is creating the data allows us to understand how that data needs to be accessed which in turn means we know where it needs to reside. One of the things that HPE is doing in the storage domain is creating a common storage fabric with the cloud. We call that the fabric for the cloud. The idea there is that we have a single layer between the on-premises and off-premises resources that allows us to move data as needed depending on the application needs and depending on the user needs. >> Okay, so that brings me to multi-cloud. It's the hot buzzword now. Some people don't like it but it's reality. And so, you've got data on-prem, you want to look like the cloud operating model, you got data in the cloud, the edge confuses things even more. And so, what is your perspective on multi-cloud, and then I have a follow-up for you. >> For us, multicloud means the ability to be able to run your business whether it's on-premises or off-premises based on the needs or the requirements of the application and the business user. We don't want to force a model down our customer's throat. We want them to have optimization across both models. The way we do that is using a couple of different products. We've got a product known as Cloud Bank, which maps to StoreOnce. StoreOnce is our purpose-built backup appliance where our customer can store a copy, a backup copy of the data on-premises, and then a backup copy of that on a public cloud like Azure, AWS, or Google. Similarly, we've got products with Nimble and 3PAR that allows to have tight integration with both public and private cloud domains. And in the future, the idea is to bring all of that together where the automation and the orchestration allows customers not to worry about what product they're using but more about what are the requirements of the application. >> Okay, because sometimes you gonna wanna bring data back, whether it's, pick and, yeah, I wanna put it in the cloud for bursting, I wanna bring it back for more control, whatever it is, when it comes back, I wanna have that cloud operating model, that's where the AIOps fits in that you were just describing. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay, and so, let's get into, more specifically, what HPE is doing. You've referenced some of the things that you and your partners are doing, but what specifically are you doing from the standpoint of products, you mentioned what I call data plan and control plan. What do you have there that we can actually buy and employ? >> What we have, as I talked about earlier from an AIOps point of view, is our product called InfoSight, and InfoSight is available to all customers that today use 3PAR, Nimble, or ProLiant servers. As long as you have a valid support contract, it comes available to them. >> So I remember when HPE acquired Nimble, you said one of the things you're gonna do is take that technology and push it across the portfolio, so that's something that you've really done in a pretty short timeframe. >> We have, and what it does, it gives us the opportunity now not just to look at call-home data from storage, but then also look at call-home data from the compute side. And then what we can do is correlate the data coming back to have better predictability and outcomes on your data center operations as opposed to doing it at the layer of infrastructure. >> And you also said about the vision of this orchestration layer, can you talk more about that? Are we talking about across all clouds, whether it's on-prem or at the edge or the public cloud? >> Yeah, we are. We're talking about making it as simple as possible where the customers are not necessarily picking and choosing. It allows them to have a strategy that allows them to go across the data center, whether it's a public cloud, building their own private infrastructure, or running on a traditional on-premises SAN structure. So this vision for us, Cloud Fabric vision for us, allows for customers to do that. >> And what about software-defined storage? Where does that fit into this whole equation? >> I'm glad you mentioned that because that was the third tenet of what HPE truly brings to our customers. Software-defined is something that allows us to maximize the utilization of the existing resources that our customers have. So, what we've done is we've partnered with a great deal of really strong software-defined vendors, such us Commvault, Cohesity, Qumulo, Datera. We work very closely with the likes of Veeam, Zerto. And the goal there is to provide our customers with a whole range of options to drive building a software-defined infrastructure built off the Apollo Series of products. Apollo servers, our storage products for us, are extremely dense storage products that allow for both cost and resource optimization. >> What's the nature of these technology partners, partnerships? Are you doing engineering integration or is it just kind of going to market together? >> We bundle our partners into three main categories. We've got a set of complete partners. These complete partners are relationship where we do joint reference architecture. We create joint pricing list and we bring them in to the family. We've got a set of partners that's part of the Pathfinder program. The Pathfinder program are partners that we've made strategic, HPE has made strategic investments in. And then the third set is partners that we resell through HPE. So, depending on which partner it is, they fall into a different bucket, and we have all sets of resources, including engineering collaboration to make sure that the customer's buying a solution as opposed to a product. >> That's great, Sundip, thank you. Thank you for watching. But before we go, how do people learn more? >> The way you learn more is make sure you contact your partner and make sure you come to Discover. So, we'll hopefully see you at the Discover. (upbeat music)

(electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering NetApp Insight 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of NetApp Insight 2018. From the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman and we're welcoming back to theCUBE one of our alumni, Jennifer Meyer, Senior Director of Cloud Product Marketing at NetApp. And welcoming to theCUBE Alok Arora, Senior Director of Cloud Data Services and the Product Owner for NetApp Cloud Advisor, which we'll talk about today. So guys, the keynote this morning, one of the things that George Kurian, your CEO, whose going to be on the program I think next with Stu and me, talked about the four pillars of digital transformation, and one of them was hybrid and multi-cloud is now the de facto architecture. Jennifer, from a cloud marketing, product marketing stand point, how is NetApp engaging with your customers, both your install base enterprise customers and engaging with new customer to help them evolve a successful multi-cloud strategy? >> Well what's funny about that is it's not really even up to us, it's up to the customer and where they're at today, meeting them there and then taking them kind of to that destination that's interesting or important for them. And what we know today is that not only are customers in the cloud because they want to be close to innovation, that's one of our big themes, inspiring innovation with the cloud, but they've got their hands in multiple clouds. And studies show that at least 80-81% of customers are doing multi-cloud with two or more public clouds, and I think that's really interesting, you know I think that in some cases it's because their end uses, or their customers, have chosen a cloud that they want to go with and so they're trying to service those needs where they exist, but also maybe they realize that they want to subscribe or consume services in one cloud versus what's available in another cloud, and so it's not our job really to tell them where to go, it's to make sure we've got a consistent seamless amount of services to give these customers to consume, wherever they may be, in whichever public cloud. >> Yeah, well I like what you said, meeting them where they are, cause I think in some ways we're giving customers a little bit of credit that this was actually planned for as to how they got to where they are, you know I'm sure if we took that 81% that say they know they're multi-cloud, if we go with the other 19%, most of them are probably multi-cloud and just don't realize it. >> Jennifer: Absolutely. >> Because just like we had an IT in the old day, I have an application, a business unit, or somebody drives something, and oh my gosh, that's how we ended up with silos, we ended up breaking those things apart. >> Or shadow IT, right? You've got a lot of developers that know exactly what tools they want. >> We had a good discussion with Anthony Lye and Ted Brockway talking about Azure and some unique functionality that NetApp's looking to drive into that partnership with Microsoft. I wonder if we could step back, if you could help us understand kind of the cloud portfolio of NetApp, people that just know NetApp as "Oh it's, that's that filer company that I've probably "got a lot of products from." The multi-cloud has been evolving, for quite a few years now, so I want to help understand the breadth and depth of the offering. >> That's right and I think you know we always think about it almost like a four layer stack, in terms of our strategy and what we're doing to bring more of these innovative data services to our install base to your point, but also our net new buyers, folks that are coming to us through Microsoft Azure, or Google Cloud, or AWS, and so it really does start with our legacy and our foundation of, in this case, cloud storage, and the data services, or the advanced data management that's built upon those storage protocols. So of course it's NFS, NSMB, but when you think about being able to offer that, and compliment what's available in the public clouds today, because that's why they've chosen to partner with NetApp. On top of that we are delivering advanced services in those public clouds that have never been available before, things like automatic snapshots, or rapid cloning, and backup, and tiering, and I think it's really important because what it does is it extends our customers' experience from On-prem into the public cloud, without having to sacrifice a thing. >> Alok, it's a tough thing that customers are trying to figure out. When I look at it and talk to customers, they've got an application portfolio. What are they modernizing? What are they starting from fresh? And then they've got all the other stuff that they have, how is NetApp helping with what they do? >> Yeah, absolutely, I think that's a great point. So you talked about the offerings that we have with multi-cloud and that creates all the options for future state architecture, I can build there, however, in order to understand how do I get there I need to understand where I am today, right? So we start looking at your current state footprint, we look at our customer's current state footprint. Understand how it is architected. How it is designed, how it is serving up the applications. Because it can be really a tedious job to get started, to get to the cloud and building the roadmap. So what Cloud Advisor does is it leverages active IQ data to get that inside for us and be leveraging data science, machine learning, to give them a guidance as to how they can get there. What should be their migration approach. How should they build a transition strategy. Because a lot of times they would call the consultants to help with the transition strategy, at the end they get a PowerPoint, which is not very actionable. We started this grounds up, we understand their detail you know, how the stuff, the bits and bites, are organized so we start giving them an actionable strategy they can execute upon. So that's really Cloud Advisor geared for accelerating that journey to the cloud that our customers should be taking to. >> How are you guys helping customers to start embracing emerging technologies, IoT devices, we had Ducati on this morning, a MotoGP bike is basically an IoT device, but in terms of, Jennifer you talked about this, and Alok you reinforced it, you are basically co-developing in partnership with your customers, it's about where they, helping them understand where they are, what they can do today. How are some of the services helping them to be able to harness the power of AI, say for example, to work with data authority to use that data for actionable business insight, and outcomes? >> Yeah it's interesting you talk about the IoT, I think NetApp saw that 20 years ago. I mean ASAP is our original IoT, that is what we get billions of data points from our customers. Controllers, millions of controllers worldwide, and we build on that mirror data, and we apply the artificial intelligence in there. We actually start looking at classifying their applications so that, if they have a strategy driven by the application, as you were saying, hey there is a director from a BU, from majority point of view, we want to take these applications in the cloud. How do you figure out what application are? Where does the data live? How does it governed? We figure that out by that IoT data, by that artificial intelligence and also making sure that these applications, no work loads are left behind because applications can be complicated they talk to each other. So when you start thinking about taking one part of the application, you also want to make sure the other parts that make that application whole also go to the cloud. And that is where we're leveraging Artificial Intelligence to cluster these applications and recommending the customer that: "Hey don't make, don't leave these workloads behind "because otherwise you're going to have a failed strategy." So we warn them upfront to make sure they're successful when they start making the executions. >> I think another piece to that too is just the fact that for many years we've had workloads just trapped On-prem. They haven't had a place to go into the public cloud without a ton of refactoring or rearchitecting, right. You'd have to rewrite them for objectory. You'd have to do a lot of manual labor and things just to make it happen. In most cases it hasn't been worth it. And so when you looked at the fact that about 80% of On-prem files where in NFS V3 protocol, there wasn't really a place in the public cloud to match that and so by even just delivering Cloud Volumes Service for Google Cloud and AWS or Azure NetApp Files which is the version for Azure, we're able to give customers an, a way to free up that trapped set of workloads, put those into the public hub, so that it then can be available to all of those advanced services that live on those public clouds to do things like Big Data Analytics or to do developing, you know, applications and services of their own and for their own benefit. >> You Know. >> Yeah I think that's a great point because >> He's so excited.| >> Sorry. >> Because when you start looking at building your strategy you want to have confidence in your strategy. >> Jennifer: right. >> So, with your protocols and all that discovery. We also not only give you the option that NetApp offers but show you what are the other options you have within Hyperscalers and how would your workload perform with NetApp technology. So you can move with confidence, right. So that's the good part of about Cloud Advisor to make sure you're moving with confidence not just, you know, with a blind spot with you. >> You know one of the transitions we've been watching is really the ascendancy with the developer in DevOps. And I've talked to the SolidFire team for many years, I see them at some of the shows that we've been covering. In the Keynote this morning George Kurian said that Kubernetes and Istio are the multi-Cloud control plane. Jennifer I'm wondering if you can help explain the StackPointCloud acquisition. >> Jennifer: (agrees) >> Some people that might not have the context of about what NetApp and SolidFire, even before the acquisition were doing. You know, we're being like: "Wait I don't understand, you know." >> Sure. >> Kubernetes is something That you know Google and you know, Red Hat and others are doing. >> Why is NetApp talking about Kubernetes? >> Why is NetApp talking about Kubernetes? >> And we even learned what the abbreviation for is was. >> Stu: K8s. >> It's like we're all hip. Absolutely. >> Absolutely, just because. >> It's all about concatenate long words together. So it, it's really interesting because when I talked about that four layer strategy, right the third layer. So it's you know cloud storage at the bottom. Then it's the advanced capabilities and data management above that. But the one that's next is orchestration and integration. And there's really a few things that live in there. You know, the, our cloud orchestration sort of technology is really what we got from our Qstack acquisition. Our teams in Iceland and what they've been able to do largely to underpin a lot of what we've seen with cloud volume service today. But certainly right in there is NetApp Kubernetes service, which as you now know, is from our StackPoint intellectual property. And so back on September 18th, when we announced this acquisition it was really to kind of give our developers and our DevOps folks a way to finally start solving for some of that data gravity that I think we've been periled by over the last few years. And what we now know is Kubernetes is the operating system of the clouds, right. It is the clear winner of container orchestration among things so it made a lot of sense to pair that kind of multi-cloud orchestration again given our strategy to be where our customers want to be with some of our cloud orchestration technology from our Qstack acquisition and make sure that with Trident and some of the ways that we're able to deliver finally persistent storage to those containers. I mean this is like a match made in heaven. Right, we're going to give people the way to make sure that they know that containers are a femoral and data is not. So let's help them do kind of all the things that they want to do in the clouds if they want to do them. >> I think I read on line that, was the StackPointCloud acquisition based on after actually NetApp used it internally. >> Jennifer: Yes. >> Tell us a little bit more about that. Because I think the NetApp on that up story is probably something that could be leverage, you're a marketer, as a differentiator when customers have so much choice. >> Well and I feel like it's a story that every vendor should be forced to tell. If you're not willing to use your own IP and technology what is that saying to your customers. >> Lisa: Yeah. >> So it is true and a lot of our developer teams, if you've hear of Jonsi Stefansson and Anthony Lye's team, that is how this sort of came about as we were looking for a way to sort of do it ourselves. And we thought man through all this investigation there's something here. There's something that we shouldn't hold to ourselves and we should share with the rest of the world. And so at one point we need to get those guys on with you as well so they can tell a little bit more about their story. >> So proof is always in the pudding. Can you give uan example of one of your favorite customer stories. We'll start with you Alok. Who have really embraced the clouds, first of all helped you develop the optimal cloud services are now really achieving big business benefits with the cloud services NetApp is developing. >> Yeah so, several of the customers as we talked to you and specially for Cloud Advisor, as we were looking at their journey as they were starting to think about how much money they were spending upfront to figure out a strategy, they had a strategy driven by a data center that was, were the lease was coming up, and so they had to plan to evacuate that data center into the cloud from there they need to figure out what applications they're running there obviously the virtualization also was there, so that had to be configured in the cloud. So we started thinking about in that use case that we need to provide these triggers and strategy points to our customers. At the same time the other shift that we saw was that these guys were not just talking amongst the infrastructure teams, they had to talk to the application owners and they had to have conversations with CFO's to talk about the economics of the clouds. So we made sure that when we build this that give them the tools that enable them to talk to various stakeholders. Give them the application footprint that is running there. Give them the economics. What it is going to cost to run these applications and workloads that they have identify too when they're in the cloud. So give them the data point that they can go and talk to their CFO. So with that really it starts shaping a product that will meet their needs and meet the needs of all of our customers. >> Lisa: Jennifer, favorite customer example. >> Oh, it's easy this week because it's all about WuXi NextCODE and I don't know if you picked up on any of their story cause we've plastered it around our conference this week because we're so proud of, not only what they're doing as a mission which is very impressive in terms of genomics sequencing and the scale at which they're doing it but the fact that they've based their foundation now on NetApp Cloud Volume services is huge. And really what they came to us and said is: "Look, we are trying to sequence all of these genomes "in parallel and our benchmark is really to look at about "a hundred thousand individuals at once." When they were trying to do that on their own, using there own self-managed storage in the cloud, they could never complete it. It would either fail or they would have some sort of a problem where they just couldn't get it to work. And with NetApp Cloud Volume Service they were able to complete in about 45 minutes. And so what their finding is again with this extreme performance, with the ability to scale and most importantly the tie it back to our discussion, it's multi-cloud, they themselves are multi-cloud because of their big pharma and hospitals that they serve. They have customers in every one of those public clouds and so we are able to help them where ever they need us to be. And that's very exciting. >> It's also one of those great examples that everybody understands. Genomic sequencing related to healthcare, you know disease predictions and things like that. So it's a story that resonates well. >> Jennifer: Sure. >> But something that you just said sort of reminded me of one of the four principles that George Kurian talked about this morning. And speed is the new scale. And this sounds like a customer who's achieving that in spades. >> Well it's so fun because I think for a long time we've been really fast On-prem and I think people have just sort of come to expect a certain level of it's good enough in the public cloud and what we're showing them in droves again on AWS GCP or with Azure is that you should expect more. Particularly for high-performance computing workloads or things that you really just, if you're moving your SAP workloads to the cloud and speed is, there is no option it has to be fast. We are showing people now possibilities that they didn't ever dream of before because of this extreme performance through things like Cloud Volumes Service. >> It's really too bad you guys aren't excited about this. (laughs) >> I know how much longer do you have? >> (laughs) Jennifer, Alok, thank you so much for stopping by and having a chat with Stu and me. And talking about how customers are really helping NetApp become a data authority that they need to be to help customers become data driven. We appreciate your time. >> It's our pleasure. >> Have a great time at the rest of the show. >> Thank you. >> Thank you both. >> Thank you. >> For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from NetApp Insight 2018, from Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas. Stick around Stu and I will be back shortly with our next guest. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from downtown San Francisco, it's the Cube, covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to San Francisco everybody. We're at the Parc 55 in Union Square and this is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage and we're covering exclusive coverage of the IBM CDO strategy summit. IBM has these things, they book in on both coasts, one in San Francisco one in Boston, spring and fall. Great event, intimate event. 130, 150 chief data officers, learning, transferring knowledge, sharing ideas. Cayn Woodruff is here as the principle data scientist at IBM and she's joined by Ritesh Ororo, who is the director of digital analytics at HCL Technologies. Folks welcome to the Cube, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you >> Thanks for having us. >> You're welcome. So we're going to talk about data management, data engineering, we're going to talk about digital, as I said Ritesh because digital is in your title. It's a hot topic today. But Caryn let's start off with you. Principle Data Scientist, so you're the one that is in short supply. So a lot of demand, you're getting pulled in a lot of different directions. But talk about your role and how you manage all those demands on your time. >> Well, you know a lot of, a lot of our work is driven by business needs, so it's really understanding what is critical to the business, what's going to support our businesses strategy and you know, picking the projects that we work on based on those items. So it's you really do have to cultivate the things that you spend your time on and make sure you're spending your time on the things that matter and as Ritesh and I were talking about earlier, you know, a lot of that means building good relationships with the people who manage the systems and the people who manage the data so that you can get access to what you need to get the critical insights that the business needs, >> So Ritesh, data management I mean this means a lot of things to a lot of people. It's evolved over the years. Help us frame what data management is in this day and age. >> Sure, so there are two aspects of data in my opinion. One is the data management, another the data engineering, right? And over the period as the data has grown significantly. Whether it's unstructured data, whether it's structured data, or the transactional data. We need to have some kind of governance in the policies to secure data to make data as an asset for a company so the business can rely on your data. What you are delivering to them. Now, the another part comes is the data engineering. Data engineering is more about an IT function, which is data acquisition, data preparation and delivering the data to the end-user, right? It can be business, it can be third-party but it all comes under the governance, under the policies, which are designed to secure the data, how the data should be accessed to different parts of the company or the external parties. >> And how those two worlds come together? The business piece and the IT piece, is that where you come in? >> That is where data science definitely comes into the picture. So if you go online, you can find Venn diagrams that describe data science as a combination of computer science math and statistics and business acumen. And so where it comes in the middle is data science. So it's really being able to put those things together. But, you know, what's what's so critical is you know, Interpol, actually, shared at the beginning here and I think a few years ago here, talked about the five pillars to building a data strategy. And, you know, one of those things is use cases, like getting out, picking a need, solving it and then going from there and along the way you realize what systems are critical, what data you need, who the business users are. You know, what would it take to scale that? So these, like, Proof-point projects that, you know, eventually turn into these bigger things, and for them to turn into bigger things you've got to have that partnership. You've got to know where your trusted data is, you've got to know that, how it got there, who can touch it, how frequently it is updated. Just being able to really understand that and work with partners that manage the infrastructure so that you can leverage it and make it available to other people and transparent. >> I remember when I first interviewed Hilary Mason way back when and I was asking her about that Venn diagram and she threw in another one, which was data hacking. >> Caryn: Uh-huh, yeah. >> Well, talk about that. You've got to be curious about data. You need to, you know, take a bath in data. >> (laughs) Yes, yes. I mean yeah, you really.. Sometimes you have to be a detective and you have to really want to know more. And, I mean, understanding the data is like the majority of the battle. >> So Ritesh, we were talking off-camera about it's not how titles change, things evolve, data, digital. They're kind of interchangeable these days. I mean we always say the difference between a business and a digital business is how they have used data. And so digital being part of your role, everybody's trying to get digital transformation, right? As an SI, you guys are at the heart of it. Certainly, IBM as well. What kinds of questions are our clients asking you about digital? >> So I ultimately see data, whatever we drive from data, it is used by the business side. So we are trying to always solve a business problem, which is to optimize the issues the company is facing, or try to generate more revenues, right? Now, the digital as well as the data has been married together, right? Earlier there are, you can say we are trying to analyze the data to get more insights, what is happening in that company. And then we came up with a predictive modeling that based on the data that will statically collect, how can we predict different scenarios, right? Now digital, we, over the period of the last 10 20 years, as the data has grown, there are different sources of data has come in picture, we are talking about social media and so on, right? And nobody is looking for just reports out of the Excel, right? It is more about how you are presenting the data to the senior management, to the entire world and how easily they can understand it. That's where the digital from the data digitization, as well as the application digitization comes in picture. So the tools are developed over the period to have a better visualization, better understanding. How can we integrate annotation within the data? So these are all different aspects of digitization on the data and we try to integrate the digital concepts within our data and analytics, right? So I used to be more, I mean, I grew up as a data engineer, analytics engineer but now I'm looking more beyond just the data or the data preparation. It's more about presenting the data to the end-user and the business. How it is easy for them to understand it. >> Okay I got to ask you, so you guys are data wonks. I am too, kind of, but I'm not as skilled as you are, but, and I say that with all due respect. I mean you love data. >> Caryn: Yes. >> As data science becomes a more critical skill within organizations, we always talk about the amount of data, data growth, the stats are mind-boggling. But as a data scientist, do you feel like you have access to the right data and how much of a challenge is that with clients? >> So we do have access to the data but the challenge is, the company has so many systems, right? It's not just one or two applications. There are companies we have 50 or 60 or even hundreds of application built over last 20 years. And there are some applications, which are basically duplicate, which replicates the data. Now, the challenge is to integrate the data from different systems because they maintain different metadata. They have the quality of data is a concern. And sometimes with the international companies, the rules, for example, might be in US or India or China, the data acquisitions are different, right? And you are, as you become more global, you try to integrate the data beyond boundaries, which becomes a more compliance issue sometimes, also, beyond the technical issues of data integration. >> Any thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I think, you know one of the other issues too, you have, as you've heard of shadow IT, where people have, like, servers squirreled away under their desks. There's your shadow data, where people have spreadsheets and databases that, you know, they're storing on, like a small server or that they share within their department. And so you know, you were discussing, we were talking earlier about the different systems. And you might have a name in one system that's one way and a name in another system that's slightly different, and then a third system, where it's it's different and there's extra granularity to it or some extra twist. And so you really have to work with all of the people that own these processes and figure out what's the trusted source? What can we all agree on? So there's a lot of... It's funny, a lot of the data problems are people problems. So it's getting people to talk and getting people to agree on, well this is why I need it this way, and this is why I need it this way, and figuring out how you come to a common solution so you can even create those single trusted sources that then everybody can go to and everybody knows that they're working with the the right thing and the same thing that they all agree on. >> The politics of it and, I mean, politics is kind of a pejorative word but let's say dissonance, where you have maybe of a back-end syst6em, financial system and the CFO, he or she is looking at the data saying oh, this is what the data says and then... I remember I was talking to a, recently, a chef in a restaurant said that the CFO saw this but I know that's not the case, I don't have the data to prove it. So I'm going to go get the data. And so, and then as they collect that data they bring together. So I guess in some ways you guys are mediators. >> [Caryn And Ritesh] Yes, yes. Absolutely. >> 'Cause the data doesn't lie you just got to understand it. >> You have to ask the right question. Yes. And yeah. >> And sometimes when you see the data, you start, that you don't even know what questions you want to ask until you see the data. Is that is that a challenge for your clients? >> Caryn: Yes, all the time. Yeah >> So okay, what else do we want to we want to talk about? The state of collaboration, let's say, between the data scientists, the data engineer, the quality engineer, maybe even the application developers. Somebody, John Fourier often says, my co-host and business partner, data is the new development kit. Give me the data and I'll, you know, write some code and create an application. So how about collaboration amongst those roles, is that something... I know IBM's gone on about some products there but your point Caryn, it's a lot of times it's the people. >> It is. >> And the culture. What are you seeing in terms of evolution and maturity of that challenge? >> You know I have a very good friend who likes to say that data science is a team sport and so, you know, these should not be, like, solo projects where just one person is wading up to their elbows in data. This should be something where you've got engineers and scientists and business, people coming together to really work through it as a team because everybody brings really different strengths to the table and it takes a lot of smart brains to figure out some of these really complicated things. >> I completely agree. Because we see the challenges, we always are trying to solve a business problem. It's important to marry IT as well as the business side. We have the technical expert but we don't have domain experts, subject matter experts who knows the business in IT, right? So it's very very important to collaborate closely with the business, right? And data scientist a intermediate layer between the IT as well as business I will say, right? Because a data scientist as they, over the years, as they try to analyze the information, they understand business better, right? And they need to collaborate with IT to either improve the quality, right? That kind of challenges they are facing and I need you to, the data engineer has to work very hard to make sure the data delivered to the data scientist or the business is accurate as much as possible because wrong data will lead to wrong predictions, right? And ultimately we need to make sure that we integrate the data in the right way. >> What's a different cultural dynamic that was, say ten years ago, where you'd go to a statistician, she'd fire up the SPSS.. >> Caryn: We still use that. >> I'm sure you still do but run some kind of squares give me some, you know, probabilities and you know maybe run some Monte Carlo simulation. But one person kind of doing all that it's your point, Caryn. >> Well you know, it's it's interesting. There are there are some students I mentor at a local university and you know we've been talking about the projects that they get and that you know, more often than not they get a nice clean dataset to go practice learning their modeling on, you know? And they don't have to get in there and clean it all up and normalize the fields and look for some crazy skew or no values or, you know, where you've just got so much noise that needs to be reduced into something more manageable. And so it's, you know, you made the point earlier about understanding the data. It's just, it really is important to be very curious and ask those tough questions and understand what you're dealing with. Before you really start jumping in and building a bunch of models. >> Let me add another point. That the way we have changed over the last ten years, especially from the technical point of view. Ten years back nobody talks about the real-time data analysis. There was no streaming application as such. Now nobody talks about the batch analysis, right? Everybody wants data on real-time basis. But not if not real-time might be near real-time basis. That has become a challenge. And it's not just that prediction, which are happening in their ERP environment or on the cloud, they want the real-time integration with the social media for the marketing and the sales and how they can immediately do the campaign, right? So, for example, if I go to Google and I search for for any product, right, for example, a pressure cooker, right? And I go to Facebook, immediately I see the ad within two minutes. >> Yeah, they're retargeting. >> So that's a real-time analytics is happening under different application, including the third-party data, which is coming from social media. So that has become a good source of data but it has become a challenge for the data analyst and the data scientist. How quickly we can turn around is called data analysis. >> Because it used to be you would get ads for a pressure cooker for months, even after you bought the pressure cooker and now it's only a few days, right? >> Ritesh: It's a minute. You close this application, you log into Facebook... >> Oh, no doubt. >> Ritesh: An ad is there. >> Caryn: There it is. >> Ritesh: Because everything is linked either your phone number or email ID you're done. >> It's interesting. We talked about disruption a lot. I wonder if that whole model is going to get disrupted in a new way because everybody started using the same ad. >> So that's a big change of our last 10 years. >> Do you think..oh go ahead. >> oh no, I was just going to say, you know, another thing is just there's so much that is available to everybody now, you know. There's not this small little set of tools that's restricted to people that are in these very specific jobs. But with open source and with so many software-as-a-service products that are out there, anybody can go out and get an account and just start, you know, practicing or playing or joining a cackle competition or, you know, start getting their hands on.. There's data sets that are out there that you can just download to practice and learn on and use. So, you know, it's much more open, I think, than it used to be. >> Yeah, community additions of software, open data. The number of open day sources just keeps growing. Do you think that machine intelligence can, or how can machine intelligence help with this data quality challenge? >> I think that it's it's always going to require people, you know? There's always going to be a need for people to train the machines on how to interpret the data. How to classify it, how to tag it. There's actually a really good article in Popular Science this month about a woman who was training a machine on fake news and, you know, it did a really nice job of finding some of the the same claims that she did. But she found a few more. So, you know, I think it's, on one hand we have machines that we can augment with data and they can help us make better decisions or sift through large volumes of data but then when we're teaching the machines to classify the data or to help us with metadata classification, for example, or, you know, to help us clean it. I think that it's going to be a while before we get to the point where that's the inverse. >> Right, so in that example you gave, the human actually did a better job from the machine. Now, this amazing to me how.. What, what machines couldn't do that humans could, you know last year and all of a sudden, you know, they can. It wasn't long ago that robots couldn't climb stairs. >> And now they can. >> And now they can. >> It's really creepy. >> I think the difference now is, earlier you know, you knew that there is an issue in the data. But you don't know that how much data is corrupt or wrong, right? Now, there are tools available and they're very sophisticated tools. They can pinpoint and provide you the percentage of accuracy, right? On different categories of data that that you come across, right? Even forget about the structure data. Even when you talk about unstructured data, the data which comes from social media or the comments and the remarks that you log or are logged by the customer service representative, there are very sophisticated text analytics tools available, which can talk very accurately about the data as well as the personality of the person who is who's giving that information. >> Tough problems but it seems like we're making progress. All you got to do is look at fraud detection as an example. Folks, thanks very much.. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> ...for sharing your insight. You're very welcome. Alright, keep it right there everybody. We're live from the IBM CTO conference in San Francisco. Be right back, you're watching the Cube. (electronic music)

>> Now we're recording. >> All right. >> Appreciate that, Hannah. >> Yeah, so I mean, I think in general we continue to do very, very well as a company. I think like everybody, there's economic headwinds today that are unavoidable, but I think we have a couple things going for us. One, we're in the cyberspace, which I think is, for the most part, recession proof as an industry. I think the impact of a recession will impact some vendors and some categories, but in general, I think the industry is pretty resilient. It's like the power industry, no? Recession or not, you still need electricity to your house. Cybersecurity is almost becoming a utility like that as far as the needs of companies go. I think for us, we also have the ability to do the security, the security operations, for a lot of companies, and if you look at the value proposition, the ROI for the cost of less than one to maybe two or three, depending on how big you are as a customer, what you'd have to pay for half to three security operations people, we can give you a full security operations. And so the ROI is is almost kind of brain dead simple, and so that keeps us going pretty well. And I think the other areas, we remove all that complexity for people. So in a world where you got other problems to worry about, handling all the security complexity is something that adds to that ROI. So for us, I think what we're seeing is mostly is some of the larger deals are taking a little bit longer than they have, some of the large enterprise deals, 'cause I think they are being a little more cautious about how they spend it, but in general, business is still kind of cranking along. >> Anything you can share with me that you guys have talked about publicly in terms of any metrics, or what can you tell me other than cranking? >> Yeah, I mean, I would just say we're still very, very high growth, so I think our financial profile would kind of still put us clearly in the cyber unicorn position, but I think other than that, we don't really share business metrics as a private- >> Okay, so how about headcount? >> Still growing. So we're not growing as fast as we've been growing, but I don't think we were anyway. I think we kind of, we're getting to the point of critical mass. We'll start to grow in a more kind of normal course and speed. I don't think we overhired like a lot of companies did in the past, even though we added, almost doubled the size of the company in the last 18 months. So we're still hiring, but very kind of targeted to certain roles going forward 'cause I do think we're kind of at critical mass in some of the other functions. >> You disclose headcount or no? >> We do not. >> You don't, okay. And never have? >> Not that I'm aware of, no. >> Okay, on the macro, I don't know if security's recession proof, but it's less susceptible, let's say. I've had Nikesh Arora on recently, we're at Palo Alto's Ignite, and he was saying, "Look," it's just like you were saying, "Larger deal's a little harder." A lot of times customers, he was saying customers are breaking larger deals into smaller deals, more POCs, more approvals, more people to get through the approval, not whole, blah, blah, blah. Now they're a different animal, I understand, but are you seeing similar trends, and how are you dealing with that? >> Yeah, I think the exact same trends, and I think it's just in a world where spending a dollar matters, I think a lot more oversight comes into play, a lot more reviewers, and can you shave it down here? Can you reduce the scope of the project to save money there? And I think it just caused a lot of those things. I think, in the large enterprise, I think most of those deals for companies like us and Palo and CrowdStrike and kind of the upper tier companies, they'll still go through. I think they'll just going to take a lot longer, and, yeah, maybe they're 80% of what they would've been otherwise, but there's still a lot of business to be had out there. >> So how are you dealing with that? I mean, you're talking about you double the size of the company. Is it kind of more focused on go-to-market, more sort of, maybe not overlay, but sort of SE types that are going to be doing more handholding. How have you dealt with that? Or have you just sort of said, "Hey, it is what it is, and we're not going to, we're not going to tactically respond to. We got long-term direction"? >> Yeah, I think it's more the latter. I think for us, it's we've gone through all these things before. It just takes longer now. So a lot of the steps we're taking are the same steps. We're still involved in a lot of POCs, we're involved in a lot of demos, and I don't think that changed. It's just the time between your POC and when someone sends you the PO, there's five more people now got to review things and go through a budget committee and all sorts of stuff like that. I think where we're probably focused more now is adding more and more capabilities just so we continue to be on the front foot of innovation and being relevant to the market, and trying to create more differentiators for us and the competitors. That's something that's just built into our culture, and we don't want to slow that down. And so even though the business is still doing extremely, extremely well, we want to keep investing in kind of technology. >> So the deal size, is it fair to say the initial deal size for new accounts, while it may be smaller, you're adding more capabilities, and so over time, your average contract values will go up? Are you seeing that trend? Or am I- >> Well, I would say I don't even necessarily see our average deal size has gotten smaller. I think in total, it's probably gotten a little bigger. I think what happens is when something like this happens, the old cream rises to the top thing, I think, comes into play, and you'll see some organizations instead of doing a deal with three or four vendors, they may want to pick one or two and really kind of put a lot of energy behind that. For them, they're maybe spending a little less money, but for those vendors who are amongst those getting chosen, I think they're doing pretty good. So our average deal size is pretty stable. For us, it's just a temporal thing. It's just the larger deals take a little bit longer. I don't think we're seeing much of a deal velocity difference in our mid-market commercial spaces, but in the large enterprise it's a little bit slower. But for us, we have ambitious plans in our strategy or on how we want to execute and what we want to build, and so I think we want to just continue to make sure we go down that path technically. >> So I have some questions on sort of the target markets and the cohorts you're going after, and I have some product questions. I know we're somewhat limited on time, but the historical focus has been on SMB, and I know you guys have gone in into enterprise. I'm curious as to how that's going. Any guidance you can give me on mix? Or when I talk to the big guys, right, you know who they are, the big managed service providers, MSSPs, and they're like, "Poo poo on Arctic Wolf," like, "Oh, they're (groans)." I said, "Yeah, that's what they used to say about the PC. It's just a toy. Or Microsoft SQL Server." But so I kind of love that narrative for you guys, but I'm curious from your words as to, what is that enterprise? How's the historical business doing, and how's the entrance into the enterprise going? What kind of hurdles are you having, blockers are you having to remove? Any color you can give me there would be super helpful. >> Yeah, so I think our commercial S&B business continues to do really good. Our mid-market is a very strong market for us. And I think while a lot of companies like to focus purely on large enterprise, there's a lot more mid-market companies, and a much larger piece of the IT puzzle collectively is in mid-market than it is large enterprise. That being said, we started to get pulled into the large enterprise not because we're a toy but because we're quite a comprehensive service. And so I think what we're trying to do from a roadmap perspective is catch up with some of the kind of capabilities that a large enterprise would want from us that a potential mid-market customer wouldn't. In some case, it's not doing more. It's just doing it different. Like, so we have a very kind of hands-on engagement with some of our smaller customers, something we call our concierge. Some of the large enterprises want more of a hybrid where they do some stuff and you do some stuff. And so kind of building that capability into the platform is something that's really important for us. Just how we engage with them as far as giving 'em access to their data, the certain APIs they want, things of that nature, what we're building out for large enterprise, but the demand by large enterprise on our business is enormous. And so it's really just us kind of catching up with some of the kind of the features that they want that we lack today, but many of 'em are still signing up with us, obviously, and in lieu of that, knowing that it's coming soon. And so I think if you look at the growth of our large enterprise, it's one of our fastest growing segments, and I think it shows anything but we're a toy. I would be shocked, frankly, if there's an MSSP, and, of course, we don't see ourself as an MSSP, but I'd be shocked if any of them operate a platform at the scale that ours operates. >> Okay, so wow. A lot I want to unpack there. So just to follow up on that last question, you don't see yourself as an MSSP because why, you see yourselves as a technology platform? >> Yes, I mean, the vast, vast, vast majority of what we deliver is our own technology. So we integrate with third-party solutions mostly to bring in that telemetry. So we've built our own platform from the ground up. We have our own threat intelligence, our own detection logic. We do have our own agents and network sensors. MSSP is typically cobbling together other tools, third party off-the-shelf tools to run their SOC. Ours is all homegrown technology. So I have a whole group called Arctic Wolf Labs, is building, just cranking out ML-based detections, building out infrastructure to take feeds in from a variety of different sources. We have a full integration kind of effort where we integrate into other third parties. So when we go into a customer, we can leverage whatever they have, but at the same time, we produce some tech that if they're lacking in a certain area, we can provide that tech, particularly around things like endpoint agents and network sensors and the like. >> What about like identity, doing your own identity? >> So we don't do our own identity, but we take feeds in from things like Okta and Active Directory and the like, and we have detection logic built on top of that. So part of our value add is we were XDR before XDR was the cool thing to talk about, meaning we can look across multiple attack surfaces and come to a security conclusion where most EDR vendors started with looking just at the endpoint, right? And then they called themselves XDR because now they took in a network feed, but they still looked at it as a separate network detection. We actually look at the things across multiple attack surfaces and stitch 'em together to look at that from a security perspective. In some cases we have automatic detections that will fire. In other cases, we can surface some to a security professional who can go start pulling on that thread. >> So you don't need to purchase CrowdStrike software and integrate it. You have your own equivalent essentially. >> Well, we'll take a feed from the CrowdStrike endpoint into our platform. We don't have to rely on their detections and their alerts, and things of that nature. Now obviously anything they discover we pull in as well, it's just additional context, but we have all our own tech behind it. So we operate kind of at an MSSP scale. We have a similar value proposition in the sense that we'll use whatever the customer has, but once that data kind of comes into our pipeline, it's all our own homegrown tech from there. >> But I mean, what I like about the MSSP piece of your business is it's very high touch. It's very intimate. What I like about what you're saying is that it's software-like economics, so software, software-like part of it. >> That's what makes us the unicorn, right? Is we do have, our concierges is very hands-on. We continue to drive automation that makes our concierge security professionals more efficient, but we always want that customer to have that concierge person as, is almost an extension to their security team, or in some cases, for companies that don't even have a security team, as their security team. As we go down the path, as I mentioned, one of the things we want to be able to do is start to have a more flexible model where we can have that high touch if you want it. We can have the high touch on certain occasions, and you can do stuff. We can have low touch, like we can span the spectrum, but we never want to lose our kind of unique value proposition around the concierge, but we also want to make sure that we're providing an interface that any customer would want to use. >> So given that sort of software-like economics, I mean, services companies need this too, but especially in software, things like net revenue retention and churn are super important. How are those metrics looking? What can you share with me there? >> Yeah, I mean, again, we don't share those metrics publicly, but all's I can continue to repeat is, if you looked at all of our financial metrics, I think you would clearly put us in the unicorn category. I think very few companies are going to have the level of growth that we have on the amount of ARR that we have with the net revenue retention and the churn and upsell. All those aspects continue to be very, very strong for us. >> I want to go back to the sort of enterprise conversation. So large enterprises would engage with you as a complement to their existing SOC, correct? Is that a fair statement or not necessarily? >> It's in some cases. In some cases, they're looking to not have a SOC. So we run into a lot of cases where they want to replace their SIEM, and they want a solution like Arctic Wolf to do that. And so there's a poll, I can't remember, I think it was Forrester, IDC, one of them did it a couple years ago, and they found out that 70% of large enterprises do not want to build the SOC, and it's not 'cause they don't need one, it's 'cause they can't afford it, they can't staff it, they don't have the expertise. And you think about if you're a tech company or a bank, or something like that, of course you can do it, but if you're an international plumbing distributor, you're not going to (chuckles), someone's not going to graduate from Stanford with a cybersecurity degree and go, "Cool, I want to go work for a plumbing distributor in their SOC," right? So they're going to have trouble kind of bringing in the right talent, and as a result, it's difficult to go make a multimillion-dollar investment into a SOC if you're not going to get the quality people to operate it, so they turn to companies like us. >> Got it, so, okay, so you're talking earlier about capabilities that large enterprises require that there might be some gaps, you might lack some features. A couple questions there. One is, when you do some of those, I inferred some of that is integrations. Are those integrations sort of one-off snowflakes or are you finding that you're able to scale those across the large enterprises? That's my first question. >> Yeah, so most of the integrations are pretty straightforward. I think where we run into things that are kind of enterprise-centric, they definitely want open APIs, they want access to our platform, which we don't do today, which we are going to be doing, but we don't do that yet today. They want to do more of a SIEM replacement. So we're really kind of what we call an open XDR platform, so there's things that we would need to build to kind of do raw log ingestion. I mean, we do this today. We have raw log ingestion, we have log storage, we have log searching, but there's like some of the compliance scenarios that they need out of their SIEM. We don't do those today. And so that's kind of holding them back from getting off their SIEM and going fully onto a solution like ours. Then the other one is kind of the level of customization, so the ability to create a whole bunch of custom rules, and that ties back to, "I want to get off my SIEM. I've built all these custom rules in my SIEM, and it's great that you guys do all this automatic AI stuff in the background, but I need these very specific things to be executed on." And so trying to build an interface for them to be able to do that and then also simulate it, again, because, no matter how big they are running their SIEM and their SOC... Like, we talked to one of the largest financial institutions in the world. As far as we were told, they have the largest individual company SOC in the world, and we operate almost 15 times their size. So we always have to be careful because this is a cloud-based native platform, but someone creates some rule that then just craters the performance of the whole platform, so we have to build kind of those guardrails around it. So those are the things primarily that the large enterprises are asking for. Most of those issues are not holding them back from coming. They want to know they're coming, and we're working on all of those. >> Cool, and see, just aside, I was talking to CISO the other day, said, "If it weren't for my compliance and audit group, I would chuck my SIEM." I mean, everybody wants to get rid of their SIEM. >> I've never met anyone who likes their SIEM. >> Do you feel like you've achieved product market fit in the larger enterprise or is that still something that you're sorting out? >> So I think we know, like, we're on a path to do that. We're on a provable path to do that, so I don't think there's any surprises left. I think everything that we know we need to do for that is someone's writing code for it today. It's just a matter of getting it through the system and getting into production. So I feel pretty good about it. I think that's why we are seeing such a high growth rate in our large enterprise business, 'cause we share that feedback with some of those key customers. We have a Customer Advisory Board that we share a lot of this information with. So yeah, I mean, I feel pretty good about what we need to do. We're certainly operate at large enterprise scales, so taking in the amount of the volume of data they're going to have and the types of integrations they need. We're comfortable with that. It's just more or less the interfaces that a large enterprise would want that some of the smaller companies don't ask for. >> Do you have enough tenure in the market to get a sense as to stickiness or even indicators that will lead toward retention? Have you been at it long enough in the enterprise or you still, again, figuring that out? >> Yeah, no, I think we've been at it long enough, and our retention rates are extremely high. If anything, kind of our net retention rates, well over 100% 'cause we have opportunities to upsell into new modules and expanding the coverage of what they have today. I think the areas that if you cornered enterprise that use us and things they would complain about are things I just told you about, right? There's still some things I want to do in my Splunk, and I need an API to pull my data out and put it in my Splunk and stuff like that, and those are the things we want to enable. >> Yeah, so I can't wait till you guys go public because you got Snowflake up here, and you got Veritas down here, and I'm very curious as to where you guys go. When's the IPO? You want to tell me that? (chuckling) >> Unfortunately, it's not up to us right now. You got to get the markets- >> Yeah, I hear you. Right, if the market were better. Well, if the market were better, you think you'd be out? >> Yeah, I mean, we'd certainly be a viable candidate to go. >> Yeah, there you go. I have a question for you because I don't have a SOC. I run a small business with my co-CEO. We're like 30, 40 people W-2s, we got another 50 or so contractors, and I'm always like have one eye, sleep with one eye open 'cause of security. What is your ideal SMB customer? Think S. >> Yeah. >> Would I fit? >> Yeah, I mean you're you're right in the sweet spot. I think where the company started and where we still have a lot of value proposition, which is companies like, like you said it, you sleep with one eye open, but you don't have necessarily the technical acumen to be able to do that security for yourself, and that's where we fit in. We bring kind of this whole security, we call it Security Operations Cloud, to bear, and we have some of the best professionals in the world who can basically be your SOC for less than it would cost you to hire somebody right out of college to do IT stuff. And so the value proposition's there. You're going to get the best of the best, providing you a kind of a security service that you couldn't possibly build on your own, and that way you can go to bed at night and close both eyes. >> So (chuckling) I'm sure something else would keep me up. But so in thinking about that, our Amazon bill keeps growing and growing and growing. What would it, and I presume I can engage with you on a monthly basis, right? As a consumption model, or how's the pricing work? >> Yeah, so there's two models that we have. So typically the kind of the monthly billing type of models would be through one of our MSP partners, where they have monthly billing capabilities. Usually direct with us is more of a longer term deal, could be one, two, or three, or it's up to the customer. And so we have both of those engagement models. Were doing more and more and more through MSPs today because of that model you just described, and they do kind of target the very S in the SMB as well. >> I mean, rough numbers, even ranges. If I wanted to go with the MSP monthly, I mean, what would a small company like mine be looking at a month? >> Honestly, I do not even know the answer to that. >> We're not talking hundreds of thousands of dollars a month? >> No. God, no. God, no. No, no, no. >> I mean, order of magnitude, we're talking thousands, tens of thousands? >> Thousands, on a monthly basis. Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. Thousands per month. So if I were to budget between 20 and $50,000 a year, I'm definitely within the envelope. Is that fair? I mean, I'm giving a wide range >> That's fair. just to try to make- >> No, that's fair. >> And if I wanted to go direct with you, I would be signing up for a longer term agreement, correct, like I do with Salesforce? >> Yeah, yeah, a year. A year would, I think, be the minimum for that, and, yeah, I think the budget you set aside is kind of right in the sweet spot there. >> Yeah, I'm interested, I'm going to... Have a sales guy call me (chuckles) somehow. >> All right, will do. >> No, I'm serious. I want to start >> I will. >> investigating these things because we sell to very large organizations. I mean, name a tech company. That's our client base, except for Arctic Wolf. We should talk about that. And increasingly they're paranoid about data protection agreements, how you're protecting your data, our data. We write a lot of software and deliver it as part of our services, so it's something that's increasingly important. It's certainly a board level discussion and beyond, and most large organizations and small companies oftentimes don't think about it or try not to. They just put their head in the sand and, "We don't want to be doing that," so. >> Yeah, I will definitely have someone get in touch with you. >> Cool. Let's see. Anything else you can tell me on the product side? Are there things that you're doing that we talked about, the gaps at the high end that you're, some of the features that you're building in, which was super helpful. Anything in the SMB space that you want to share? >> Yeah, I think the biggest thing that we're doing technically now is really trying to drive more and more automation and efficiency through our operations, and that comes through really kind of a generous use of AI. So building models around more efficient detections based upon signal, but also automating the actions of our operators so we can start to learn through the interface. When they do A and B, they always do C. Well, let's just do C for them, stuff like that. Then also building more automation as far as the response back to third-party solutions as well so we can remediate more directly on third-party products without having to get into the consoles or having our customers do it. So that's really just trying to drive efficiency in the system, and that helps provide better security outcomes but also has a big impact on our margins as well. >> I know you got to go, but I want to show you something real quick. I have data. I do a weekly program called "Breaking Analysis," and I have a partner called ETR, Enterprise Technology Research, and they have a platform. I don't know if you can see this. They have a survey platform, and each quarter, they do a survey of about 1,500 IT decision makers. They also have a survey on, they call ETS, Emerging Technology Survey. So it's private companies. And I don't want to go into it too much, but this is a sentiment graph. This is net sentiment. >> Just so you know, all I see is a white- >> Yeah, just a white bar. >> Oh, that's weird. Oh, whiteboard. Oh, here we go. How about that? >> There you go. >> Yeah, so this is a sentiment graph. So this is net sentiment and this is mindshare. And if I go to Arctic Wolf... So it's typical security, right? The 8,000 companies. And when I go here, what impresses me about this is you got a decent mindshare, that's this axis, but you've also got an N in the survey. It's about 1,500 in the survey, It's 479 Arctic Wolf customers responded to this. 57% don't know you. Oh, sorry, they're aware of you, but no plan to evaluate; 19% plan to evaluate, 7% are evaluating; 11%, no plan to utilize even though they've evaluated you; and 1% say they've evaluated you and plan to utilize. It's a small percentage, but actually it's not bad in the random sample of the world about that. And so obviously you want to get that number up, but this is a really impressive position right here that I wanted to just share with you. I do a lot of analysis weekly, and this is a really, it's completely independent survey, and you're sort of separating from the pack, as you can see. So kind of- >> Well, it's good to see that. And I think that just is a further indicator of what I was telling you. We continue to have a strong financial performance. >> Yeah, in a good market. Okay, well, thanks you guys. And hey, if I can get this recording, Hannah, I may even figure out how to write it up. (chuckles) That would be super helpful. >> Yes. We'll get that up. >> And David or Hannah, if you can send me David's contact info so I can get a salesperson in touch with him. (Hannah chuckling) >> Yeah, great. >> Yeah, we'll work on that as well. Thanks so much for both your time. >> Thanks a lot. It was great talking with you. >> Thanks, you guys. Great to meet you. >> Thank you. >> Bye. >> Bye.

>> Narrator: "TheCUBE" presents Ignite 22. Brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >> Hey everyone. Welcome back to "TheCUBE's" live coverage of Palo Alto Network's Ignite 22 from the MGM Grand in beautiful Las Vegas. I am Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. Dave, we just had a great conversa- First of all, we got to hear the keynote, most of it. We also just had a great conversation with the CEO and chairman of Palo Alto Networks, Nikesh Arora. You know, this is a company that was founded back in 2005, he's been there four years, a lot has happened. A lot of growth, a lot of momentum in his tenure. You were saying in your breaking analysis, that they are on track to nearly double revenues from FY 20 to 23. Lots of momentum in this cloud security company. >> Yeah, I'd never met him before. I mean, I've been following a little bit. It's interesting, he came in as, sort of, a security outsider. You know, he joked today that he, the host, I forget the guy's name on the stage, what was his name? Hassan. Hassan, he said "He's the only guy in the room that knows less about security than I do." Because, normally, this is an industry that's steeped in deep expertise. He came in and I think is given a good compliment to the hardcore techies at Palo Alto Network. The company, it's really interesting. The company started out building their own data centers, they called it. Now they look back and call it cloud, but it was their own data centers, kind of like Salesforce did, it's kind of like ServiceNow. Because at the time, you really couldn't do it in the public cloud. The public cloud was a little too unknown. And so they needed that type of control. But Palo Alto's been amazing story since 2020, we wrote about this during the pandemic. So what they did, is they began to pivot to the the true cloud native public cloud, which is kind of immature still. They don't tell you that, but it's kind of still a little bit immature, but it's working. And when they were pivoting, it was around the same time, at Fortinet, who's a competitor there's like, I call 'em a poor man's Palo Alto, and Fortinet probably hates that, but it's kind of true. It's like a value play on a comprehensive platform, and you know Fortinet a little bit. And so, but what was happening is Fortinet was executing on its cloud strategy better than Palo Alto. And there was a real divergence in the valuations of these stocks. And we said at the time, we felt like Palo Alto, being the gold standard, would get through it. And they did. And what's happened is interesting, I wrote about this two weeks ago. If you go back to the pandemic, peak of the pandemic, or just before the peak, kind of in that tech bubble, if you will. Splunk's down 44% from that peak, Okta's down, sorry, not down 44%. 44% of the peak. Okta's 22% of their peak. CrowdStrike, 41%, Zscaler, 36%, Fortinet, 71%. Not so bad. Palo Altos maintained 93% of its peak value, right? So it's a combination of two things. One is, they didn't run up as much during the pandemic, and they're executing through their cloud strategy. And that's provided a sort of softer landing. And I think it's going to be interesting to see where they go from here. And you heard Nikesh, we're going to double, and then double again. So that's 7 billion, 14 billion, heading to 30 billion. >> Lisa: Yeah, yeah. He also talked about one of the things that he's done in his tenure here, as really a workforce transformation. And we talk all the time, it's not just technology and processes, it's people. They've also seemed to have done a pretty good job from a cultural transformation perspective, which is benefiting their customers. And they're also growing- The ecosystem, we talked a little bit about the ecosystem with Nikesh. We've got Google Cloud on, we've got AWS on the program today alone, talking about the partnerships. The ecosystem is expanding, as well. >> Have you ever met Nir Zuk? >> I have not, not yet. >> He's the founder and CTO. I haven't, we've never been on "theCUBE." He was supposed to come on one day down in New York City. Stu and I were going to interview him, and he cut out of the conference early, so we didn't interview him. But he's a very opinionated dude. And you're going to see, he's basically going to come on, and I mean, I hope he is as opinionated on "TheCUBE," but he'll talk about how the industry has screwed it up. And Nikesh sort of talked about that, it's a shiny new toy strategy. Oh, there's another one, here's another one. It's the best in that category. Okay, let's get, and that's how we've gotten to this point. I always use that Optive graphic, which shows the taxonomy, and shows hundreds and hundreds of suppliers in the industry. And again, it's true. Customers have 20, 30, sometimes 40 different tool sets. And so now it's going to be interesting to see. So I guess my point is, it starts at the top. The founder, he's an outspoken, smart, tough Israeli, who's like, "We're going to take this on." We're not afraid to be ambitious. And so, so to your point about people and the culture, it starts there. >> Absolutely. You know, one of the things that you've written about in your breaking analysis over the weekend, Nikesh talked about it, they want to be the consolidator. You see this as they're building out the security supercloud. Talk to me about that. What do you think? What is a security supercloud in your opinion? >> Yeah, so let me start with the consolidator. So Palo Alto obviously is executing on that strategy. CrowdStrike as well, wants to be a consolidator. I would say Zscaler wants to be a consolidator. I would say that Microsoft wants to be a consolidator, so does Cisco. So they're all coming at it from different angles. Cisco coming at it from network security, which is Palo Alto's wheelhouse, with their next gen firewalls, network security. What Palo Alto did was interesting, was they started out with kind of a hardware based firewall, but they didn't try to shove everything into it. They put the other function in there, their cloud. Zscaler. Zscaler is the one running around saying you don't need firewalls anymore. Just run everything through our cloud, our security cloud. I would think that as Zscaler expands its TAM, it's going to start to acquire, and do similar types of things. We'll see how that integrates. CrowdStrike is clearly executing on a similar portfolio strategy, but they're coming at it from endpoint, okay? They have to partner for network security. Cisco is this big and legacy, but they've done a really good job of acquiring and using services to hide some of that complexity. Microsoft is, you know, they probably hate me saying this, but it's the just good enough strategy. And that may have hurt CrowdStrike last quarter, because the SMB was a soft, we'll see. But to specifically answer your question, the opportunity, we think, is to build the security supercloud. What does that mean? That means to have a common security platform across all clouds. So irrespective of whether you're running an Amazon, whether you're running an on-prem, Google, or Azure, the security policies, and the edicts, and the way you secure your enterprise, look the same. There's a PaaS layer, super PaaS layer for developers, so that that the developers can secure their code in a common framework across cloud. So that essentially, Nikesh sort of balked at it, said, "No, no, no, we're not, we're not really building a super cloud." But essentially they kind of are headed in that direction, I think. Although, what I don't know, like CrowdStrike and Microsoft are big competitors. He mentioned AWS and Google. We run on AWS, Google, and in their own data centers. That sounds like they don't currently run a Microsoft. 'Cause Microsoft is much more competitive with the security ecosystem. They got Identity, so they compete with Okta. They got Endpoint, so they compete with CrowdStrike, and Palo Alto. So Microsoft's at war with everybody. So can you build a super cloud on top of the clouds, the hyperscalers, and not do Microsoft? I would say no. >> Right. >> But there's nothing stopping Palo Alto from running in the Microsoft cloud. I don't know if that's a strategy, we should ask them. >> Yeah. They've done a great job in our last few minutes, of really expanding their TAM in the last few years, particularly under Nikesh's leadership. What are some of the things that you heard this morning that you think, really they've done a great job of expanding that TAM. He talked a little bit about, I didn't write the number down, but he talked a little bit about the market opportunity there. What do you see them doing as being best of breed for organizations that have 30 to 50 tools and need to consolidate that? >> Well the market opportunity's enormous. >> Lisa: It is. >> I mean, we're talking about, well north of a hundred billion dollars, I mean 150, 180, depending on whose numerator you use. Gartner, IDC. Dave's, whatever, it's big. Okay, and they've got... Okay, they're headed towards 7 billion out of 180 billion, whatever, again, number you use. So they started with network security, they put most of the network function in the cloud. They moved to Endpoint, Sassy for the edge. They've done acquisitions, the Cortex acquisition, to really bring automated threat intelligence. They just bought Cider Security, which is sort of the shift left, code security, developer, assistance, if you will. That whole shift left, protect right. And so I think a lot of opportunities to continue to acquire best of breed. I liked what Nikesh said. Keep the founders on board, sell them on the mission. Let them help with that integration and putting forth the cultural aspects. And then, sort of, integrate in. So big opportunities, do they get into Endpoint and compete with Okta? I think Okta's probably the one sort of outlier. They want to be the consolidator of identity, right? And they'll probably partner with Okta, just like Okta partners with CrowdStrike. So I think that's part of the challenge of being the consolidator. You're probably not going to be the consolidator for everything, but maybe someday you'll see some kind of mega merger of these companies. CrowdStrike and Okta, or Palo Alto and Okta, or to take on Microsoft, which would be kind of cool to watch. >> That would be. We have a great lineup, Dave. Today and tomorrow, full days, two full days of cube coverage. You mentioned Nir Zuk, we already had the CEO on, founder and CTO. We've got the chief product officer coming on next. We've got chief transformation officer of customers, partners. We're going to have great conversations, and really understand how this organization is helping customers ultimately achieve their SecOps transformation, their digital transformation. And really moved the needle forward to becoming secure data companies. So I'm looking forward to the next two days. >> Yeah, and Wendy Whitmore is coming on. She heads Unit 42, which is, from what I could tell, it's pretty much the competitor to Mandiant, which Google just bought. We had Kevin Mandia on at September at the CrowdStrike event. So that's interesting. That's who I was poking Nikesh a little bit on industry collaboration. You're tight with Google, and then he had an interesting answer. He said "Hey, you start sharing data, you don't know where it's going to go." I think Snowflake could help with that problem, actually. >> Interesting. >> Yeah, little Snowflake and some of the announcements ar Reinvent with the data clean rooms. Data sharing, you know, trusted data. That's one of the other things we didn't talk about, is the real tension in between security and regulation. So the regulators in public policy saying you can't move the data out of the country. And you have to prove to me that you have a chain of custody. That when you say you deleted something, you have to show me that you not only deleted the file, then the data, but also the metadata. That's a really hard problem. So to my point, something that Palo Alto might be able to solve. >> It might be. It'll be an interesting conversation with Unit 42. And like we said, we have a great lineup of guests today and tomorrow with you, so stick around. Lisa Martin and Dave Vellante are covering Palo Alto Networks Ignite 22 for you. We look forward to seeing you in our next segment. Stick around. (light music)

from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation hi I'm Peter Burris analyst at wiki bond welcome to another wiki bond the cube digital community event this one sponsored by HP and focusing on hybrid storage like all of our digital community events this one will feature about 25 minutes of video followed by a crowd chat which will be your opportunity to ask your questions share your experiences and push forward the community's thinking on the important issues facing business today so what are we talking about today again hybrid storage let's get going so what is hybrid storage in a lot of shops most people have associated the cloud with public cloud but as we gain experience with the challenges associated with transforming to digital business in which we use data as a singular value producing asset increasingly IT professionals are starting to realize this important relationship between data storage and cloud services and in many respects that's really what we're trying to master today is a better understanding of how the business is going to use data to affect significant changes in how it behaves in the marketplace and it's that question of behavior that question of action that question of location that is pushing business to think differently about how its cloud architectures are going to work we're going to keep data proximate to where it's created to where it's going to be used to where it's going to be able to generate value which demands that we have storage resources in place close to that data proximate to that activity near that value producing activity and that the cloud services will have to follow in many respects that's what we're talking about when we talk about hybrid cloud today we're talking about the increasing recognition that we're going to move cloud services to the data default and not move the data into the cloud public cloud specifically so it's this ongoing understanding as we gain experience with this powerful set of technologies that data architecture is going to be increasingly distributed that storage therefore will be increasingly distributed and that cloud services will flow to where the data is required utilizing storage technologies that can best serve that set of workload so it's a more complex world that demands new levels of simplicity ease of use and optimization so that's where we're going to start our conversation so these crucial questions of how data storage and cloud are going to come together to create hybrid architectures was the basis for a great cubed conversation between silicon angle wiki bonds david Volante and HPE sun dip aurora let's hear what they had to say talk about let's talk about the break down those three things cost efficiency ease of use and resource optimization let's start with cost efficiency so obviously there's TCO there's also the way in which I consume the people I presume are looking for a different pricing model is that are you hearing that yeah absolutely so as part of the cost of of running their business and being able to operate like a cloud everybody is looking at a variety of different procurement and utilization models one of the ways HPE provides utilization model that can map to their cloud journey a public cloud journey is through Greenlake the ability to use and consume data on-demand consume compute on demand across the entire portfolio of products HPE has essentially is what a Greenlake journey looks like and let's go into ease-of-use so what do you mean by that I mean people look they think cloud they think swipe the credit card and start you know deploying machines what do you mean by easy for us ease of use translates back to how do you map to a simpler operating and support model for us the support model is the is the key for customers to be able to to realize the benefits of going to that cloud to get to a simpler support model we use AI ops and for us a offs means using a product called info site info site is a product that is uses deep learning and machine learning algorithms to look at a wide net of call home data from physical resources out there and then be able to take that data and make it actionable and the action behind that is predictiveness the prescriptive nosov creating automated support tickets enclosing automated support tickets without anybody ever having to pick up a phone and call IT support that info site model now is being expanded across the board to all HP products it started with nimble now info site is available on three part it's available on synergy and a recent announcement said it's also available on pro alliance and we expect that info set becomes the glue the automation a I do that goes across the entire portfolio of HP products so this is a great example of applying AI to data so it's like call home taking to a whole new level isn't it yeah it absolutely is and in fact what it does is it uses the call home data that we've had for a long time with products like 3par which essentially was amazing data but not being auctioned on in an automated fashion it takes that data and creates an automation tasks around it and many times that automation task leads to much simpler support experience all right third item you mentioned was resource optimization let's let's drill down into that I infer from that there's there are performance implications is maybe governance compliance you know physical placement can you elaborate that's in color yes I think it's all of the above that he just talked about it's definitely about applying the right performance level to the right set of applications we call this application of air storage the ability to be able to understand which application is creating the data allows us to understand how that data needs to be accessed which in turn means we know where it needs to reside one of the things that HP is doing in the storage domain is creating a common storage fabric with the cloud we call that the fabric for the cloud the idea there is that we have a single layer between the on-premises and off premises resources that allows us to move data as needed depending on the application needs and depending on the user needs so this crucial new factors that have to be incorporated through everyone's thinking of cost efficiency ease of use and resource optimization it's going to place new types of stress on the storage hierarchy it's gonna require new technologies to better support digital transformation David Flor an analyst here in wiki bon has been a leading thinker of the relationship between the storage hierarchy and workloads and digital thinking for quite some time I had a great conversation with David not too long ago let's hear what he had to say about this new storage hierarchy and the new technologies they're gonna make possible these changes have you've been looking at this notion of modern storage architectures for 10 years now and you've been relatively prescient in understanding what's going to happen you were one of the first guys to predict well in advance of everybody else that the crossover between flash and HDD was gonna happen sooner rather than later so I'm not gonna spend a lot of time quizzing you what do you see as a modern storage architecture let's just let it rip ok well let's start with one simple observation the days of stand-alone systems for data have gone we're in a software-defined world and you want to be able to run those data architectures anywhere where you the data is and that means in your data center where you've is created or in the cloud or in a public cloud or at the edge you want to be able to be flexible enough to be able to do all of the data services where the best place is and that means everything has to be software German Software Defined is the first proposition of a modern day in a storage so so the second thing is that there are different types of technology you have the very fastest storage which is in the in in the DRAM itself you have env dim which is the next one down from that expensive but a lot cheaper than the dim and then you have different sorts of flash you have the high-performance flash and you have the 3d flash you know as many layers as you can which is much cheaper flash and then at the bottom you have HD DS and an even tape as storage devices so how the key question is how do you manage that sort of environment well let me start because it still sounds like we still have a storage hierarchy absolutely and it still sounds like that hierarchy is defined largely in terms of access speeds yep and price point size points yes those are the two mason and and bandwidth and latency as well with it which are tied into the richer tied into those yes so what you if you're gonna have this everywhere and you need services everywhere what you have to have is an architecture which takes away all of that complexity so that you all you see from an application point of view is data and how it gets there and how it's put away and how it's stored and how it's protected that's under the covers so the first thing is you need a virtualization of that data layer the physical layer the virtualization of that physical yes and secondly you need that physical layer to extend to all the places that may be using this data you you don't want to be constrained to this data set lives here you want to be able to say ok I want to move this piece of programming to the data as quickly as I can that's much much faster than moving the data to the to the processing so I want to be able to know where all the data is for this particular dataset or file or whatever it is where they all are how they connect together what the latency is between everything I want to understand that architecture and I want a virtualized view of that across that whole the nodes that make up my hybrid cloud so let me be clear here so so we are going to use a software-defined infrastructure that allows us to place the physical devices that have the right cost performance characteristics where they need to be based on the physical realities of latency of you know power availability hardening etc on the network and the network but we want to mask that complexity from the application the application developer an application administrator yes and Software Defined helps do that but doesn't completely do it No well you you want services which say exactly so their service is on top of all that apps that are that are recognizable by the developer by the you know the business person by the administrator as they think about how they use data towards those outcomes not use a storage or use a device but use the data to reach application outcomes that's absolutely right then that's what I call the data plane which is a series of services which enable that to happen and and driven by the application required so we've looked at this and some of the services include you know and and compression deduplication the backup restore security data protection so that's kind of that's kind of the services that now the enterprise by or needs to think about so that those services can be applied with you know by policy yes wherever they're required based on the utilization of the data correct where it's kind of where the event takes place and then you still have at the bottom of that you have the different types of devices you still have you still want of hamsters Mickey you still want hard disk they're not disappearing but if you're gonna use hard disks then you want to use it in the right way if you're using a hard disk you know you want to give it large box you to have it going sequentially in and out all the time so the storage administration and the day the physical schema and everything else is still important in all this but it's less important less the centerpiece of the buying decision correct increasingly it's how well does this stuff prove support the services that the business is using to achieve their outcomes and you want to use course the lowest cost that you can and there will be many different options over more more options open but but the automation of that is absolutely key and that automation from a vendor point of view one of the key things they have to do is to be able to learn from the usage by their customers across as broad a number of customers as they can learn what works what doesn't work learn so that they can put automation into their own software their own software services well sounds like we're talking four things we got we got software-defined still have a storage hierarchy defined by cost and performance but with mainly semiconductor stuff we've got great data services that are relevant to the business and automation that masks the complexity from the artificial AI there is also also made many things fantastic so David's thinking on the new storage hierarchy and how it's going to relate to new classes of workload is a baseline for a lot of the changes happening in the industry today but we still have to turn technology into services that deliver higher levels of value once again let's go back to Dave volantes conversation with Sun dip Arora and here what Sun dip has to say about some of the new digital services some of the new data services they're gonna be essential to supporting these new hybrid storage capabilities we have and what it does it it gives us the opportunity now not just you look at column data from storage but then also look at call home data from the compute side and then what we can do is correlate the data coming back to have better predictability and outcomes on your data center operations as opposed to doing it at the layer of infrastructure you also set out a vision of this this orchestration yeah lair can you talk more about that are we talking about across all clouds whether it's on pram or at the edge or in the public cloud yeah we are we're talking about making it as simple as possible where the customers are not necessarily picking and choosing it allows them to have a strategy that allows them to go across the data center whether it's a public cloud building their own private infrastructure or running on a traditional on-premises sand structure so this vision for us cloud fabric vision for us allows for customers to do that and what about software-defined storage yeah where does that fit into this whole equation yeah I'm glad you mentioned that because that was a third tenant of what HP truly brings to our customers software-defined is is something that allows us to maximize the utilization of the existing resources that our customers have so what we've done is we've partnered with a great deal of really strong software-defined vendors such as comm world cohesive accumulo de terre I know we work very closely with the likes of veeam Zotoh and and the goal there is to do to provide our customers with a whole range of options to drive building a software-defined infrastructure build off the Apollo series of products Apollo servers or storage products for us are extremely dense storage products that allow for both cost and resource optimization so Sunday I made some fantastic points about how new storage technologies are going to be turned into usable services that digital businesses will require as they conceived of their overall hybrid storage approach here's an opportunity hear a little bit more about what HPE thinks about some of these crucial areas let's hear what they have to say in this Chuck talk short take I'm gonna introduce you to HPE primary storage if you want the agility of the public cloud but need the resiliency and speed of high-end storage for mission-critical applications this force is a trade-off of agility for resiliency high-end storage is fast and reliable but falls short on agility and simplicity what if you could have it all what if you could have both agility and resiliency for your mission-critical apps introducing the world's most intelligent storage for mission-critical apps HP primary it delivers an on-demand experience so storage is instantly available Apple wear resiliency backed with a hundred percent availability guarantee predictive acceleration so apps aren't fast some of the time but fast all the time with embedded AI let me tell you more about HPE primarily was engineered to drive unique value in high-end storage there are four areas we focus on global intelligence powered with the most advanced AI for infrastructure info site an all active architecture with multiple nodes for higher resiliency and limitless parallelization a service centric OS that eliminates the risk and simplifies management and timeless storage with a new ownership experience that keeps getting better to learn more go to hp.com slash storage slash prime era so that's been a great series of conversations about hybrid storage and I want to thank Sun dip Arora of HPE David floor of wiki bonds to look at angle jim kanby lists of wiki bonds to look and angle and my colleague David Volante for helping out on the interview side I'm Peter Burris and this has been another wiki bond the cube digital community event sponsored by HPE now stay tuned for our Crouch at which will be your opportunity to ask your questions share your experiences and push for the community's thinking on hybrid storage once again thank you very much for watching let's crouch at

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas it's theCube covering AWS re:Invent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey! Welcome back to theCube's continuing coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017 from beautiful Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin with my co host Keith Townsend. We're very excited to welcome back Cube alumni Nayaki Nayyar from BMC. The president of Digital Services Management. Welcome back to theCube! >> Thank you Lisa. Thank you Keith. Really excited to be here. I've been here before and I love this forum and how you are able to scale this and get our word around the world on this forum; thank you. >> Well fantastic. So one of the first things I wanted to ask you, you know, we hear buzz words all the time. Every event that we're at no matter what and I wanna know what is Multi-Cloud? What does it mean to your customers? Or do they say "Nayaki, what is Mutli-Cloud? "Do we need one?" >> Yes. So you know that's a very good question. Every customer I go talk to the number one challenge they have is what we call this Multi-Cloud challenge. Because now customers are evolving their workloads. We heard from Andy how everyone is evolving the workloads into cloud. But it's not one cloud. They have hybrid clouds, managed clouds, private clouds you name it. The privilege of clouds is becoming a norm now. And how you help them manage the complexity of these Multi-Cloud is what is very unique for BMC and all the technology that they are releasing in the market is that's our sweet spot right now. >> So when a customer comes and says "help me navigate this process." Where do you start? >> Yeah, so you know the number one. You'd be surprised. When customers are planning the migration or they're in the journey of migrating their workloads to cloud the first thing is they have to know what they own. Discovering their assets and it'd be interesting for most of the CIOs or heads of technology that I talk to they don't even know what they own across all the data centers. So we have a product called Discovery for Mutli-Cloud. Where it can discover all assets customers have on-prim but also assets across AWS. That is a partnership we announced with AWS. And with Azure or any other clouds that they have. And it actually builds a relationship across all of these assets so you can plan if you move one of those assets what is the impact on the rest of the service. That is the beauty of it. >> So Nayaki, I really love the discovery conversation and it is a big challenge for most enterprises. AWS announcing 1,300 features this year alone. Amazing skill. But those assets don't look like traditional CI, configuration items, that we've seen in the past. There's server-less, there's databases. What does an asset look like in BMC so that we normalize that and look at it across multiple clouds. >> There are like technology assets but most importantly when we took a look at an asset it is a business asset. You're providing a service. End to end service. The service could be listing as a service for an eBay website. And for that service you have databases. You have application service. You have code running on various parts. That is what discovery does. Being able to discover for that service. That business service that you have. Delivering to your customers or to your business what all is mapped to that service. So when you actually asses that impact. If you move any one of them or bring any one of them down. What is the impact to that business service. >> So obviously something like a dependency. If I have a listing service for eBay and it's designed for eBay process but I move it somewhere else what does that mean towards basically the employee that needs to go and list an item on eBay their job is impeded. >> Yeah so it immediately detects what impact any one of those assets are moved or brought down or shut down for whatever reason what is the impact on the rest of the relationships and also the business outcome or business service that you are providing. >> So one of the things that John likes to take on is the concept of Multi-Cloud. Getting more into this definition of Mutli-Cloud. Is that we're not running workloads everywhere, are we? Saying that we can't defeat gravity and the speed of light. That you're not going to have AI running and AWS and across object storage and Google. Multi-cloud. How are customers using Multi-cloud? >> Yeah, so I would not say you would not have like 20 clouds that you are using. Typically companies have, of course on-prim, everyone has on-prim, all large enterprises. But then they also have a private cloud of their own. But then have one or two public clouds that they may have workloads. They may have AWS for sure and Azure. So typically that's what a customer landscape looks like. But even within these four or five clouds that you have to manage it's still a big landscape that technology leaders have to manage and secure. >> Talk to us about what you guys have heard this week from AWS. One of the things that you mentioned this year alone over 1,300 new services and features. Last year I think it was 1,117. So the accelerated pace of innovation at AWS is mind blowing. Do you think they probably need like a neck brace? They're going at such warp speed. But I'm wondering how does their pace of innovation with your strategic partnership. How does that influence BMC and what are some of the things that excite you about what you've heard this week. >> So a couple of things. The very first one is for our customers, BMC has what we call Remedy, one of the largest suite for helping customers manage ITSM or IT Service Management. Most of our customers are moving that workload into public clouds like AWS so for us instead of trying to run it our own cloud or in our data centers it's easier for our customers to just move that workload into clouds. So with the pace of innovation that AWS is releasing with 1,300 new features, we don't have to invest in all that. Or our customers don't have to invest on the infrastructure there. We can just focus on the app side, the Remedy side. That's one. The second one I was so excited about was Arora. The announcement of Arora on Postgres. We were actually working very closely with AWS right now on certifying Remedy with Arora and Postgres. We are like few weeks, few months away from that announcment and that release and once that gets out all of our customers should be able to migrate to their gravity system onto Arora with using Postgres as a database which is a huge cost savings for companies on the database side. So those are the two big announcements we are very excited about. >> So, I know this talks to the pace of change. So you guys cutting edge to move Remedy to Postgres on Arora. Serverless for Arora was just announced yesterday. How does that impact? >> That even makes it our job even more easier right? For it to be able to just scale elastically without being like dependent on any one instance or one server is I think this tremendously futuristic and can help our customers and for us not to manage those server assets in AWS. Absolutely. >> So reducing friction. What does it mean to consume Remedy as a service versus worrying about all of that infrastructure. What does that actually mean to your customer? >> So it's not consuming Remedy as a service. It's service management as a service. Right. So if you look at customers want to provide IT Service Management to their employees. How they consume that with a combined solution from BMC and AWS is the beauty of our partnership coming together. >> Let me ask you on that front, what is some of the feedback that you're getting from customers that helps reinforce the partnership with AWS and improve it? >> Yeah, in fact, after we announced the partnership with AWS I would say the intake. The flood of questions I got from customers around the world is they're so happy to hear the partnership because now they can have BMC and AWS at the table discussing how we move their workload, which they had on-prim into AWS and leverage the strength and the power of what AWS gives along with the power of what Remedy gives. >> So service management a huge. You know I've heard CEOs and CIOs call Service Management the ERP of IT. Meaning this is the central point where I go to consume IT services. How does Mutli-Cloud impact the consumption of IT services through something like Remedy. >> Yes. So think of it right. In the past you were providing service management for all your on-prim assets. Now your assets are all over Mutli-Cloud. So it is like Multi-Cloud service management. So we do have the next iteration of Remedy which we call Mutli-Cloud Service Management. So now customers can use launches to provide service for their on-prim assets but all their cloud assets through one service management tool. That's one. But even more little futuristic that Viore announced with AWS is what we call Cognitive Service Management. Is service management a future is not reactive, it's proactive. You detect an issue before it actually happens and proactively provide that service and that is where our integration with Alexa and the AI services come from Amazon. >> So as customers prepare to get ready for Multi-Cloud and the interface into Service Management, what are some of the things that they should be thinking about today? >> So as customers, first of all discover, making sure you discover all the assets, plan the phase at which those assets will move into cloud but then don't forget that at the end of the day you're providing a service to your end customers or end employees. How that service is provided through a single, I would say technology set or single suite, will take them a long ways. So that's where AWS and BMC's suite really becomes very powerful as customers are planning this journey. >> You mentioned Alexa for business and of course we heard all about that this morning. I see a smile on your face. What is that gonna mean for BMC? >> So in fact we announced a partnership with Amazon on Alexa for Business. Well think of it when you go to work and instead of typing a ticket for requesting a service, you just ask Alexa. Alexa, my laptop's not working or my phone is having an issue and it automatically >> Alexa, my laptop. (laughing) >> So that is where we call Alexa for Business where it's not just for consumer world it's not entering into what I call the enterprise world and being able to provide that experience, that end user experience right, through what we call virtual agents and virtual assistants like Alexa for customers and employees to just ask a question and the entire service will be fulfilled right through Alexa. >> So obviously some of the first thoughts that come to my mind when it comes to that type of service. I had an Alexa at home for a little while and I should probably start calling it Echo cause we're setting off a bunch of echos all across the world here. But I quickly got rid of it because my nine year old would come in the room and would say "Order ten cases of bubble gum." And there's no authentication. So, how are those types of enterprise issues getting addressed? >> So, that's what we call enterprise grade. How do you bring enterprise rigor into the technology that is coming from the consumer world. That's why when you ask Alexa for a certain service or a request. It will validate whether you have the authorization to get that service. And all of that integration inside our core ITSM Suite is already done and that's where the power of Alexa plus Remedy really becomes powerful. >> So how many cases of gum do you actually have? >> I don't even like gum so it's gonna take her a while to chew through all of that. (laughing) >> Oh well if only we had more time to explore that. Nayaki, thank you so much for coming back visiting us on theCube and sharing the excitement at BMC. Your energy and excitement for what you guys are doing is electric so thank you for sharing that. >> Thank you Lisa. Thank you Keith. It was an absolutely pleasure and thank you everyone. Thanks a bunch. >> Awesome. And we want to thank you for sticking around with us for my co-host Keith Townsend I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube live at AWS re:Invent 2017. Don't go anywhere. We have great more segments coming back. (pop tech music)