>>Oh, here we go again. Yeah. Here we go again. >>Cube Coverage of AWS re invent continues in a moment.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, we got a great segment here on taming complexity. Niranjan Ramsunder and Raghu Bongula, Senior Vice President of Engineering TSYS, and Niranjan is the Chief Technology Officer of UST. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on. You've got a great use case here, taming complexity. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, John, it's a pleasure to be here. >> So this is a great example of some of the major wave we're seeing coming in that were reporting this re:Invent is that this next generation of cloud scale powered by data and business value at the modern application layer, at the top of the new stack, if you will, going to call it that. This is the theme everyone's talking about, you've got Edge, all these things are happening, but at the heart of it is the complexity. So Niranjan, take us through what you guys are doing at UST with Raghu and his journey on the transformation. Set us up. >> Sure, John. Thanks, John, and Raghu, thanks for joining us. So when you look at AWS, John, you got it right. The situation has matured to a level where the real complex applications, the one which needs low latency, high throughput are now moving to the cloud, and concerns about data security, about privacy, about how to manage systems are not in my control are now getting resolved, and an important example of that is what TSYS and Raghu are doing in the sense of really taking their core functionalities, their fundamental business processes and moving it to the cloud. So it has been a great experience for us working with Raghu and the entire TSYS team on how a business function moves. What are the reasons why you would move? What considerations will you have? And then, you know, proving that it really is functional, that is critical because business has to see value. It's not just cloud because it's attractive, it is because cloud has a purpose. So we'd love to hear from Raghu as well on what are the motivations, but that is really what excites us, thanks. >> Raghu, before you get into your, the why on the transformation, I just want to set it up. You guys are running a very big business. You have a lot of business legacy systems built in place, your transforming to the cloud, you can't just kill the old to bring in the new, you got to work together, this is part of the benefit of the cloud. So with that said, take us through the journey, what's the purpose, what's the problem you're trying to solve? Take us through the highlights. >> Sure, John, thank you. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to talk here. So, you know, as I mentioned, I'm Raghu Bongula, I lead the delivery of platform analyzation and cloud migration programs at TSYS. TSYS, which is part of global payments, you know, is focused on payments and card processing for the issuer banks. We are the number one card issuer processor in the United States, and I think we lead in many countries across the world. So we run the most mission critical systems in the financial services. So our platforms are a combination of, you know, low latency workloads which span in thousands of transactions per second and also high-throughput workloads like a high throughput batch workloads, which, you know, which deal with the hundreds and thousands of, you know, transactions per second, you know, and, you know, in the current mainframes. So our challenge has been how to take this systems, you know, which have been so successful for so many years with the cloud, how do we kind of take that? You know, how do we kind of approach that? That has been our challenge. I think we have been, you know, in this journey along with UST to solve those. The motivations for us, you know, from my perspective, to take our platforms to the cloud, you know? There are many, but these are some of them, the first one being the business agility, you know? Right now, I think like any other company who is running on on-premise, they are bound by the infrastructure and you know, the rigid state of the data centers. So cloud provides us agility for us to take advantage of the infrastructure, you know, take advantage of the service (indistinct) build so that we don't have to build it ourself, we can use those Lego blocks to solve high-order problems for example. And so other, you know, advantage we have is the ability for us to offer the solutions across the world. Now today, if we go across the world and try to offer our solutions, you know, we are sometimes, I think, you know, are forced to look in to build a data center, which can be, you know, definitely expensive and also time taking, you know? And we lose the market opportunity in many of those cases. So what cloud does provide, in this case, AWS provides this, with this span of regions they have across the world, it provides us an opportunity for us to kind of quickly take our solution to any of these regions where we don't serve today, okay? And last but not least, the security. So I think security is, you know, is a foremost. The security of what we see in AWS, you know, is, you know, definitely meets our needs and our customers', and you know, we feel that to get that sophistication it's going to be more and more tougher in the on-premise environment. >> That's great stuff. I mean, Niranjan, we're talking about this all the time with cloud. This year and this kind of inflection point is where it goes the next level, you know? I mean, Raghu is running a very successful global payments system, a lot of transactions. So, you know, the metaphors range, you know? "Changing the airplane engine out at 30,000 feet," I've heard that one. That's kind of what's happening here, He's got to be successful. You can't just like put the pause button. >> Yes, and there are more than one, you know, allegory which fits your... One is of course is the airplane engine changing, the second, the pilot is changing as well. So it does, you know, it's not just enough to take care of technology moves and ensure business still runs, but at the same time, the people who are supporting it today work on older technologies, they need to move along with the change so that we don't lose the knowledge, they have the systems. And the one important part where we are contributing to this whole engagement is documenting their systems which have been written over a period of 30 years and ensuring that all the rules and subroutines and the nested loops within that get translated correctly and get tested correctly as they move to the cloud. So it is definitely in the engine, but you know, the entire transformation has to be seamless and business should not know better, it should be nothing happened except that now we're on the cloud, that is really where the fun part is. >> Raghu, I want to ask you, when you guys sit in the room and say, "Okay, we got to do this." What are the key business benefits are expected from this modernization program? I mean, I get the agility, that's, you know, check the box, yeah, we want to be more agile. What does that translate into from a benefits standpoint? >> Yeah, so build that agility for us means, you know, our ability to kind of adapt to the market needs as quickly as possible, which is, you know, we deal with different demographics, different regulatory environments across the world. So if a need arises to quickly build a payment product or a card product to serve a particular industry or a particular domain or a particular vertical, you know? Across the world, we want to be able to kind of quickly put together what we have in a, you know, a marketable solution, okay? So that's what it means for us and the business agility, and we want to be able to do across the world, so if we see an opportunity, you know, anywhere in the world, we want to be able to kind of quickly deploy our solution, tie our Lego pieces, build a product or, you know, configure a product which satisfies that particular vertical or that particular regulatory region across the world. >> All right, question for both of you guys. I would love to ask the same question if you don't mind answering it from the different perspectives that you're taking. What were the major challenges that you guys have anticipated and addressed in this program? Because you know, this is probably going to... I can almost guess how many times we bump up against something that's a little speed bump, it says, "Okay, whoa, okay, how do we do that?" 'Cause remember, it's all net new sometimes should be factoring your... not just re-platforming. So can you share some of the major challenges that you've anticipated and how you've addressed them with this modernization program? >> Sure, I can go first, and then, you know, Niranjan, feel free to add, you know, anything which I would have missed. From my perspective, I think, you know, when we run the most mission critical systems in the financial services, so a lot of customers depend on our systems to kind of perform their day-to-day financial leads, okay? So uptime, high availability are utmost important to us. At the same time, the ability to process through billions and billions of transactions we deal with everyday, you know, that is of utmost importance to us. So the solutions have been running for a long time in the mainframes, tuned for many years, performing at scale, as mentioned again, you know, very low latency with thousands of transactions per second, you know, in case of real time transactions or very high throughput, you know, workloads, then getting hundreds and thousands of transactions per second. So taking, and again, in most cases, are, you know, in our case, they're running as a monolith. Now, how do you take, you know, a system like this and break it down into microservices and apply it on the cloud? And how do you deal with data, for example? So the data is sitting at one place. Now you cannot... what you cannot do is come Monday and turn off everything on the on-premise and put everything on the cloud for something like this, so you need an iterating migration path. How do you build a iteration migration path when the plane is moving and make it happen? I think that has been the challenge. The way we address this, we have built various patterns, you know, to kind of take that right out to the cloud using, you know, a Securus pattern, okay? Using a CDC and a Securus pattern, so we build what we'll call... you know, a framework called data fabric, which allows us to kind of seamlessly migrate applications and where the applicants can live on both ends and successfully, you know, solve the traffic, for example. We build techniques, you know, like pilot testing using pilot testing framework which allows us to kind of do a A/B testing which is the application is running on the cloud, application is running on on-premise, but we run the transaction, we complete it at both locations and make sure that it behaves the way we have anticipated it to behave, for example. So this was some of the challenges we had and we've just gone over some of the techniques we have open in our case to solve that problem. >> Yes, to add to that, John, you know... >> Great by the way, great insight. Awesome, thank you for sharing. >> Sure. To add to that, I think what Raghu was saying and what we found with the project, what is happening is it has fundamental implications to people in their daily lives. You know, someone going to buy milk at the grocery store, I mean, they cannot have their transaction stopped, it is not like I can be 99% right, you have to be right. And therefore it's important that we capture the requirements in the right way and make sure that they are reflected correctly in the target, that's one part. The second part is that we are not, as you heard earlier from Raghu as well, not re-platforming, we are rewriting all of the critical activities because the paradigms have shifted, the way coding is done, the way you are, you know, composing code, and the way your writing functionalities have changed are therefore making sure that the principals have not changed, the functionalities have not changed, but the way of delivery is changing. That continuity of business functionality through the process has been a very interesting part of the project. As far as we are concerned, we're still a work in progress that's still going on and it is really exciting to see how Raghu and the team have got these huge volumes, and they've got a new way of working both happening together and that's what we are happy to participate in. >> Yeah, and just a quick highlight, I want to call out the fact that they are writing their own code, they're getting patents. This is the new normal, right? I mean you got to build it. And this is all software value, this is what cloud does. I do want to give you a chance to explain to the folks UST and what the benefits are for working with you guys as an Amazon implementation partner, what's the benefits that customers get? Obviously, you got migrations like this that are modernizations programs, taming complexity, obviously a key, on account here. What does other customers get from working with you? >> Yeah, so AWS provides all of the technology underpinnings in terms of the functionalities, the functions, which are available out of the box, and, you know, it's all in those category from AWS. You get a lot of capabilities in terms of their architecture and their support for their transformation. What we provide on top of it is a willingness to take ownership for outcomes, that we make sure that what AWS offers is actually working for the end client targeted, for example, TSYS, and make sure that we do it in a time and in a speed which meets business requirements, and taking that ownership for our outcomes is a very key add-on that UST provides towards what AWS provides. There are other minor benefits, for example, AWS will invest in something that'll partner with UST in terms of migration, in terms of, you know, some subsidy of the world required in the initial stages, but the real value comes because we make sure that AWS and TSYS are both successful, and it becomes our job to make sure that we are part of a successful rollout rather than just a roll out. >> Raghu, I got to ask you. Obviously, the fun part is writing code and when you have DevOps and DevSecOps fully operational, it's infrastructure as code, that's the dream scenario, right? So how close are you to that? And what's next on this modernization wave? >> Yeah, as part of this journey, I think what we have embarked is, I think, you know, in fact our code is kind of the base foundational element. I think everything, what we are doing, as part of this migration, we are taking advantage of how a large enterprise, you know, should operate. Like, you know, we operate across the world, we have teams across the world building a lot of solutions every day. So we have built, you know, in fact, our code using something called service catalog, it's an offering from AWS, to help with large enterprises converting to the... or migrating to the cloud. So we are using that as our foundational layer to help us build that, and I think we are looking forward to it. I think, you know, where we migrate all of our applications, and take advantage of the true power of the cloud, especially in the, you know, in the data space, in the ML space and in areas we are not necessarily are not able to as easily, you know, adapt on the on-premise. >> John: Niranjan and Raghu, thank you so much for coming onto theCUBE, sharing the UST story, TSYS, great customer example, really great use case, great insights into taming complexity, because that's what the now the opportunity is to do and to recast and reset and a refactor business innovation. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, John. Thank you for the opportunity. >> Thank you very much John and Raghu. >> Keeps coverage here at theCUBE AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, thanks for watching. (relaxed atmospheric music)

(upbeat intro jingle) >> 'Kay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent, 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, with your Matt Morgan, Vice President of Cloud Infrastructure Business Group of VMware, CUBE alumni. Matt, great to see you. Can't wait to see you in person, but thanks for coming in remotely for the virtual now hybrid CUBE for re:Invent. >> It's good to see you too, John. Thanks for having us. You know, it's our ninth year covering re:Invented, Remember the first year we went there, it was all developers, right? >> Right. >> And reminds me of the story that you guys have with AWS, you know, VMware Cloud, and VMware with vSphere pioneered operations in IT, you know, vSphere workloads, but now you move that all in the cloud. I remember Ragu when he announced that deal with Pat Gelsinger and Andy Jassy, we covered it extensively. People were like "What are they doing here? This is interesting". Boy- >> Yeah, you- >> The pundits all get it wrong. Their relationship has been blossoming. It's been really powerful, take us through the history here. >> Thanks, John, I mean, you're absolutely right. We have a phenomenal relationship with Amazon Web Services. The value of our partnership has been realized by customers all over the world, in every industry, as they embrace the seamless hybrid cloud experience powered by VMware, vSphere, and of course VM-ware Cloud Stack. Of course, we've recently expanded our operations here, including Japan and the launch of the Soccer Regions. And we're fully open for business with the U.S. Federal Government with VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud. There's strong alignment across the field with new go-to-market teams on both sides and a powerful resell agreement that enables AWS sellers to take VMware Cloud on AWS and all the associated VMware services, such as VMware cloud disaster recovery, NSX vRealize Cloud Management, to their enterprise customers. And we couldn't be doing better. >> Yeah, and you brought up a lot of things there. You mentioned Outpost, mentioned Gov Cloud, you mentioned Marketplace, which means you mentioned the acronym, which is basically, I think it's called EDP Credits, which essentially the enterprise, Amazon's Salesforce working together. So, essentially full business model and technical integrations with Amazon. So, success certainly being demonstrated there. So congratulations, that being said, there's still more to do. We got this whole big wave coming on, you see the edge, you seeing multicloud, you seeing hybrid becoming the operational model, both on premises and in the cloud. And so, customers really are asking themselves "Okay, I got VMware, I got AWS Cloud, I got to secure these clouds now. I got to start putting the business model together on top of the technical architecture". You know, microservices, Kubernetes, Tansu, all the things you guys are doing, but customers want to ask you "What about securing the cloud?", this is the number one question, what's your reaction to that? >> Yeah, it's a great topic, John, at the end of the day, this is about evolving the hybrid cloud. And if you think about it, originally, the hybrid cloud was about unifying both infrastructure and operations between the on-premises world, and the public cloud world. And now what's happening, is we are seeing people embrace that in spades, and as a result of that, their Tier 1 applications are running both on-premises and in the public cloud. And with our new announced local cloud capabilities with VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost, it's leading to this whole new enterprise architecture, which we call the distributed cloud. When you look at deploying enterprise applications in a distributed cloud environment, the conversation starts with consistent networking and importantly security. So, let's talk about that for a moment. Customers are asking us "How do we secure our data when we start having infrastructure in a variety of locations? Are our applications and networks... Are they really secure when they run in these completely different environments? And importantly, when we move an application, we take it from our on-premise data center, we move it to the public cloud are the security policies... Are they moving with it? Do I need to re-architect for that?". And the real question, all of this boils down to "Are we expanding that attack surface when we move to VMware Cloud on AWS?". And so we have to come back to what do we do here to really alleviate these concerns? With data security, it's all about encryption, universal insights. We have the super root capability within our platform to ensure that everything is measured, every message from an application, every data, it's great for Chain Of Custody, Audit. Of course we have backup DR Ransomware. On the application side, of course, segmentation is super important with application centric firewalls, VPNs, tunneling, EDR, IDS, IPS. And of course, none of that matters if you have to reset everything up every time an application moves. And this is a real unique value proposition for us, it's about portability. We deliver portable security. We can move an application, the APIs are standard. You can move it up to the public cloud, your policies, your integrations, even if it's third-party integrations, they're maintained. And that really delivers the ability to say "Look, we can make sure your attack surface is not expanding, it's a controlled environment for you". And that really shrinks the risk factors associated with moving to this distributed cloud environment. >> You know, that's the really, I think the key point, I think that you brought up this infrastructure, kind of, table stakes. Which keeps rising because security's, honestly is now there's no... There's a huge... There's no perimeter. It's huge surface area. Everything has to be secured and locked down. And the big theme at re:Invent this year is data, right? So, you know, data and security all go hand in hand. And so that brings up the aspect of the edge. The edge is now booming, you seeing 5G again, you're here hearing it here at reinvent again, more and more 5G. You mentioned local services, Outpost is evolving. This is kind of the new area, and certainly, attack factor as well. So, you mentioned this whole local services. Take me through that because this becomes interesting because this is an architectural issue for enterprises to figure out, "Okay, I got to distribute a computing architecture, it's called The Cloud and multiple clouds. Now, I've got this edge, whole 'nother opening opens up the case for the architecture conversation". What's the strategy? How do you guys view the case? How do you make the case for local services? >> So, we were super excited to announce VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost. This is a local cloud as a service offering. So, let me break that down a little bit. Of course, compute at the edge is nothing new, but the problem with traditional approaches is typically edge locations may lack IT excellence. Which means there's no one there to manage the service. VMware Cloud on AWS outposts is that local cloud as a service, meaning it's fully managed and at the edge, that's a perfect fit. It's hand in glove for those types of workloads that are out, pushed all the way out, whether it's part of an agricultural deployment or an energy production facility or retail store, where there isn't that typical IT excellence. VMware cloud on AWS outposts enables customers to deploy the same Cloud instance as they're running VMware Cloud on AWS, but be able to do it out at that edge environment. And when you look at the overall value of VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost, it's about delivering a simpler, cost effective, consistent cloud experience for those on-prem environments that matches the operating model of the public cloud. Think of the places that you really want to have cloud infrastructure, where it's critical. Going back to your point on data, getting real time insights on that data, to be able to process that, we call those perishable insights. The value is the immediacy understanding that value specific to the moment it's being captured. Think about the different types of sensor environments, where data's coming off expensive equipment, that's measuring temperature and speed. Understanding that value back to the operator - really, really important. You don't have time to pipe that data up to a cloud process and send the results back down. Edge environments require that real-time stuff. So, together with AWS, we jointly deliver a fully managed service right down to the AWS hardware on which we built the VMware cloud instance. We think about where we're seeing the most interest here. You can look across all kinds of industries and use cases, and we're seeing it specifically in healthcare, out of the hospital, manufacturing for equipment monitoring, government, higher education, where those end points are typically virtualized. There are others, but these are the big ones so far. >> You know, I was just talking to an AMD executive or product marketing person on the gaming side. And they're living this right now because they're putting all the virtual collaboration in the cloud, all the data, because they have so much data and they have so much need for these special instances, whether it's GPUs, and CPUs, a mix and match. So, as instances become more special purposed, that's going to enable them to have more productivity. But then, when you have that baseline in the cloud, the edge also has processing power. So, I think people are starting to see this notion of "Okay, I'm in the cloud, but I can also have that cloud edge without moving data back to the centralized cloud and processing it at the edge with software". >> Yeah, that's true. >> This is real. >> It's super real. And the one that really resonates with customers, is one that we all understand and that's healthcare. Anytime you're in a regional environment where you're at a hospital, think of an ICU, the criticality of that data being processed, providing the insights, this is more mission critical than any other environment, because we're dealing with human lives, think about the complex compute requirements of that environment. And then look at the beauty and elegance of this system, a cloud-based system on premises, doing that compute, providing those insights, giving reality back to the clinician, so they can make those decisions. Healthcare is super, super important. And we see customers across the spectrum, looking at what's happening at the edge and embracing it, whether it's healthcare or other industries. And again, it's a perfect fit for them. >> Yeah, real quick, before we move on to what's new, I'm want to get to that, the Tansu stuff as well. What other industries are popping out? Obviously, manufacturing. What can you talk with some industries and some verticals that are really primed for this local cloud service? >> So, let's talk about manufacturing for a moment. Manufacturing is another facility oriented compute requirement that is perfectly fit, from a system and solution way like VMware cloud on AWS Outposts. Within the manufacturing environment, there's tons of very critical machines. There's inventory management, there's a combination of time management, people management, bringing it all together to ensure that process lines are moving as required, that inventory is provided at the specific moment it's needed, and to make sure that everything, especially in today's supply chain world is provided when is required. This type of capability allows an organization to bring in that sensor data, bring in that inventory data, produce applications that manage that in real time, delivering that compute. And in the manufacturing floor, again, limited IT excellence. So, this provides that capability. Another one is energy production. Think about energy production that's out in the field in North Dakota, or out on an oil rig that might be in the Gulf of Mexico. Not only are you dealing with lack of IT excellence, you're also dealing with limited connectivity. This equipment needs to be monitored and censored and the data from those sensors help drive critical decisions. And with limited connectivity, I mean, you may not even have an LTE signal, the need to do that real time is paramount, local cloud provides that. >> Yeah, and I'd also just add, because we're going to move on, but higher ED is going to be completely transformed. Well, I think that's going to be kind of like a pleat revamp. Let's get into what's new on VMware Cloud on AWS give us the update on the new things that people should know about. That's important that they should review, take us through that, what's new? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, the first is the integration with the AWS console. This is a big thing that we're delivering because VMware Cloud on AWS is a native service of AWS. I have to kind of say that twice, it's a native service of AWS. And because of that, we get the same operational and commerce experience for VMware Cloud instances as customers do with traditional AWS services. This means customers now have a choice between AWS centric operating model, which is highly relevant to DevOps and developers, or VMware centric operating model, which is very relevant to traditional operators, and IT users. VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud is expanded to the U.S., East Virginia Region, and achieved aisle five certification. This new region will make the service more relevant for the Eastern Seaboard where much of the Federal Government resides. And of course with aisle five, it opens up VMware Cloud on AWS to the U.S. military and defense contractors, which is huge because there's massive cloud transformation contracts currently in play. And of course, VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud provides the most secure enterprise cloud for those DOD customers, especially when they focus on those critical Tier 1 workloads. >> It's been three years since the GA of the VMware cloud on AWS, has been earlier, since you announced it> You're pumping on all cylinders, as we had predicted, others didn't, just FYI for the folks watching. What's the final vibe? End the segment with your view of what's going on with VMware Cloud on AWS? What's the bumper sticker? >> So, at the end of the day, every customer is looking to migrate and modernize their workloads. And VMWare cloud gives them that capability to do it faster than anyone else. Customers take their applications, tier 1 applications, move it to that secure distributed cloud construct, that idea of having VMware Cloud on AWS, sharing all those security policies, all of that consistent infrastructure and operations. And then they can modernize those applications, using all of those cloud services and the ability to use Tansu to containerize where applicable. We're excited about these capabilities, and our customers are adopting it faster each and every year. And we're thrilled about the traction we're had. And we're thrilled about the partnership we have with Amazon Web Services. So, lots more to come in this space. >> Lot of great stuff, people moving up the stack on the cloud, you're seeing more refactoring in the cloud. Matt Morgan, great to see you. We've been talking 'about this for years on theCUBE. Great to come on and give some insights. All happening. Infrastructure is code. And everyone's winning with containers and microservices. So, great stuff. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks a lot, John, take care. >> Okay, Matt Morgan, the VP of Cloud Infrastructure Business Group of VMware. This theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent, 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. 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(Upbeat intro music) >> Welcome to theCUBE's continuing coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm Lisa Martin and we are running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events with AWS in this ecosystem partners this year. We have two live sets, two remote sets over 100 guests talking about the next decade in cloud innovation. And we're excited to be joined by Patrick Jean the CTO of OutSystems, Patrick welcome to the program. >> Thank you, I appreciate being one of those 100 guests. >> One of the 100, one of the elite 100, we'll say it like that, right? >> Yes. >> So OutSystems has some revolutionary news. You guys are saying, you know what, developer experience needs to change, tell us more. >> It does I mean, it needs to change. And I've been in the industry developing applications for too many years to mention, basically since I was 12 years old writing software and going over that time and thinking about it, doing the traditional software development route. So many applications that take too long was costly to build, so much risk involved in it. Eventually it didn't meet all the requirements. And if you look at the investment we make in software, which is important, I mean, software is a unique differentiator for businesses. That investment has such a high-risk and a high cost and that needs to change. And it needs to change just because of the complexity that is in that process inherent in it. That's and that is what we are doing in OutSystems is tackling that problem. And from a business standpoint, it must change. >> It must change that is strong words there. So talk to me about what you're announcing what were the gaps in the market, customer feedback, were there any catalysts from the pandemic going we've got to change this developer experience and this is the time. >> For sure. I mean, if you think about from the pandemic and I mean, we were on a journey for digital transformation. We've been on this journey for a number of years the pandemic really accelerated that the experiences that we have with each other, you and me are not in the same studio today. I mean, there reasons that we use this experience remotely. We have a technology that can do it. The pandemic accelerated that. And so, so much of the experiences we have are digital experiences. And if you think about it, there's a device in between us. There's going to be a device in between all the people viewing what we're looking at. That experience that they will have with us will be basically surfaced through an application on that device. And the pandemic has really accelerated that. And that's an area that we play in, obviously for what's considered low-code application development. And if you just think about application development in general, that's what powers all of these experiences. And going back to that statement about that it needs to change. If we need these experiences to be diverse, if we need these experiences to be meaningful, if we need them to make sure that when people engage as far as what that device is something that brings, delight and pleasure to them. We need developers across the board investing in that. Today there is a very constrained market for professional developers because of the inherent complexity in software development. And so if you think about how that's almost, almost here limiting access to the people who can create those experiences, that's not a good situation. There's about 25 million developers in the world that would consider themselves developers today, seven, eight, nine, 10 billion devices out there. Think of that disparity between those two numbers. And so we need a larger number of people to actually develop applications so that experience can be much more diverse. We need to expose development to many more people. That is the problem today with software development is that it is complex, it is too specialized. It's too inherent as far with failure when you get it together. And so either you shy away from that as an organization or as an individual. To do development are you going on these very long development as far as cycles to actually create these applications? What we do is we take the approach of let's make it very simple to get into. Sometimes we call it citizen developer, low-code, basically all they're saying is let's reduce the risk of development. Let's go into a process where we make it accessible to more and more people. You can go through and develop applications with the lower risk. You can build change into that process. You can get value into end users as rapidly as possible. So that is the value proposition, that is what needs to change. >> Strong value proposition well said, Patrick. Talking about reducing the complexity, the risk as well. So go ahead and crack open what you guys are actually announcing today. >> Yeah, for sure. So we've been doing this for many years. We have software development, we have 14 million plus as far as end-users using applications that have been developed with the Allo systems platform. What we're announcing is taking some of the great benefits that we have to what you'd consider as the first part of that low-code process. Where you have a developer that has an idea, and there's a canvas in front of you. You're an artist, right, with a canvas that's what you are as a developer. And so you go in and you create that application. We've been doing this for many years and it worked really well. The thing that we're improving upon now is the ability to do that and scale that out to millions of end-users, 10 millions of end-users. So if you think about that inherent speed of developing an application, using a platform like OutSystems, we're taking that same concept and rolling that into an internet scale application, hosting architecture. So any developer that uses OutSystems, basically like it would be comparable to a traditional development team that has application architects, cloud architects, security engineers, database engineers, a whole team of very smart individuals that generally the biggest technology companies in the world can put together. Most companies can't do that, you don't have access to that type of skillset. And so we're providing that with Project Neo, which is what we're announcing today in our, at our user conference and customer conference. Is this brand new as far as platform that allows you to build these applications at scale. And this is initially built on AWS using all the great AWS technologies. If you look at what AWS has done and provided to developers today, it's amazing. It is absolutely amazing. The amount of technologies that you can leverage. It's also daunting because as a traditional developer, you have to go in and choose what do you do? It's like, there's just massive cognitive load. As far as upfront when you go in to design an application. What's up in messaging, what's up at data store, well, how do I host my application? What type of network as far as security do I use? We're taking all that heavy lifting, all that undifferentiated heavy lifting off of the developers, putting it into the Project Neo platform. Allowing a single developer or a small group of developers to actually leverage that best in class architecture on AWS today. >> So when you're talking to developers, what are some of the things that you describe as the unique differentiators of Project Neo? It sounds like this was really apt and apt time for change. But when you're talking to those folks, what do you say you know, one, two three, these are the things that make Project Neo unique. >> Yeah, so the first is don't worry about the application architecture. Like I mentioned when you go in, the idea, the concept of that application and what it means to deliver some value, whether it's into a business or a hobby or whatever. I mean, however you're developing application, you're doing it for a reason. You want that value to come out as quick as possible. You want that experience. And so that first thing is, you don't have to worry about the architecture anymore. So in the past you'd have to think about if it's a very large application, it's millions and millions of end-users. How do you structure that? How do you put it together? That concern is removed from you in that process. The other thing is we solve the problem of software disintegration. So with traditional development, when you develop an application and you get it into the hands of end users it immediately starts to disintegrate. So there will be bugs that will appear. There will be as far as security flaws that will come up services that you use will become deprecated. We'll swap out cloud services by AWS or Azure or Google. swap out cloud services with different services behind the scenes. Version, there'll be new versions of those that is software disintegration. As soon as you develop software today and all of these beautiful cloud services that you use and components. Something will become outdated almost by the time you release it. A lot of times with software development projects, it literally is you start with some version or some component before you can get that out in a traditional mode, something becomes outdated. We solved that issue. What I like to call software disintegration. We, as far as OutSystems, ensure we invest in that platform. And so when we may need to change out those components, those services, those versions fix is for security flaws, fixed bugs, we do that and it's seamless. And so your application, you do not have to rewrite your application. You do not have to go through that process as a tradition, as a developer on OutSystems like you would, as your traditional developer. We solve that software disintegration issue. So it's very empowering to developers to not have to worry about that. There are many, you look at the numbers today about how much is invested in innovation versus maintenance. A lot of companies start out at 70% innovation, 30% as far as maintenance, and then overtime that flips. And you'll get to 30% of your time spent on innovations development, 70% maintenance, that burden, we remove that burden. >> Those were some really powerful statements Patrick that you made and I really liked the way that you described software disintegration. I've actually never heard that term before. And it kind of reminded me of when you buy a brand new car, you drive it off the lot, the value goes down right away then before you even get things out. And on the consumer side, we know that as soon as we buy the newest iPhone, the next one's going to be out, or there's some part of it, that's going to be outdated. In terms of technical debt, I was reading a stat that technical debt is expected to reach in costs of businesses, 5 trillion, US dollars over the next 10 years. How does OutSystems help customers address the challenges with technical debt and even reduce it? >> Yeah, I mean if you think about in the kind of the truest sense of technical debt, it's a decision that you make in the development process to basically load up the future with some work that you don't want to do right now. And so we're solving that issue where not only, you don't even have to make that decision. So you can go back to that concept of removing that cognitive load of, do I get the software out right now or do I get it out in the right way? And that's really what technical debt, technical debt is saying I need to get it out now. And there are some things I want to do that it'd be better if I did them now, but I'm going to go ahead and push that out into the future. You don't have to do that today with us. And so what happens with OutSystems is we invest in that platform. And this is hard. I mean, this is not an easy thing to do. This is why we have some of the best and brightest engineers focusing on this process at the heart of this, not to get too technical, but the heart of this is what we call the true change engine within our platform. We go through and we look at all of the changes that you need to make. So you think of that concept of technical debt of like, ah, I want to get this in the hands of end users, but I don't want to invest in the time to do something right. It's always done right, as far as with the OutSystems platform. So we take that, we look at the intent of your change. So it's like a process where you tell us the intent. When you as a application developer, you're designing an application, you tell us the intent of the application is to look and feel. It could be some business processes this could be some integrations. We determine what's the best way to do that and then once again, from a software disintegration standpoint, we continue to invest in all the right ways to do that the best way possible. And so, I mean, we have customers that have written applications that's 10, 15 years ago. They're still using our platform with those same applications they've added to them, but they have not rewritten those applications. And so if you think about the normal traditional development process, the technical debt incurred over that type of lifetime would be enormous. With us there's no technical debt. They're still using the same application they've simply added capabilities to it. We invest in that platform so they don't have to. >> So big business outcomes down, obviously from a developer productivity perspective, but from the company wide perspective, the ability to eliminate technical debt, some significant opportunities there. Talk to me about the existing OutSystems customers. When are they going to be able to take advantage of this? What is the migration or upgrade path that they can take and when? >> Yeah and so it is very important to me and the team as far as OutSystems to be able to integrate, to innovate as far as for customers, without disrupting customers. And we've probably all been through this path of great new technology is awesome. But then to actually utilize that technology when you're a current customer, it creates pain. And so we've invested heavily in making sure that the process is pain-free. So you can use Project Neo. So we are announcing it as in, it was in public preview as far as now, and then we will release it from GA as far as in the first quarter of next year. So over this timeframe, you'll be able to get in and try it out and all that. Continue to use your current version, which is OutSystems 11. So what we affectionately call O-11, as far as Allo systems. The Allo systems 11 version continue to use, and you can continue to use that today side-by-side and coexistence with the Project Neo. And Project Neo is a code name. So we will have an official product name as for as at launch but it's our affectionate it's kind of a unofficial mascot as Neo. So we call the Project Neo is a little bit of a fun name and you can use it side by side and then in the future, you'll be able to migrate applications over. Or you can just continue to co-exist. I mean, we see a very long lifetime for OutSystems 11, it's a different platform, different technology behind the scenes. Project Neo's Kubernetes-base Linux containers. Based once again, on the ability, we went in with the gist and looked at it and said, re-architect, re-imagine, how would you do this if you had the best and brightest as far as engineers, architects, we have, which we do. Various market and those people and we did that. And so we did that for our customers. And so Neo is that OutSystems 11 still a great choice. If you have applications on it, you can use it. And we have, we anticipate the customers will actually side by side develop on both in which we have some customers in preview today. And that's the process that they have. They will develop on 11, they will develop on Neo and they will continue to do that. And there's no, we are dedicated to making sure that there's no disruption and no pain in that process. And then when customers are ready to migrate over, if that's what they choose, we'll help them migrate over. >> You make it sound easy. And I was wondering if Project Neo had anything to do with the new matrix movie I just saw the trailer for it the other day, I wonder if this is related. >> It was a happy coincidence. It is not easy let me, let me be clear. It is something we have been working on for three years and really this last year really kicked into high gear. And a lot of behind the scenes work, obviously for us, but once again, that's our value proposition. It's we do the hard work. So developers and the customers don't have to do that hard work. But no relations to Neo, I love, I do love the matrix movies. So it's a nice coincidence. (Lisa laughs) >> It is a nice coincidence. Last question, Patrick, for you, as we wrap up the calendar year 2021, we heading into 2022. I think we're all very hopeful that 2022 will be a better year than the last two. What are some of the things that you see as absolutely critical for enterprises? What are they most concerned about right now? >> Yeah, I think it's, look I mean, it's obviously it has been a crazy a couple of years. And if you think about what enterprises want, I mean, they want to provide a great experiences for their customers, a great experience for their employees. Once again, digital transformation, where you don't even kind of talk about digital transformation more because we're in it. And I think that customers need to make sure that the experiences they provide these digital experiences are the best possible experiences. And these are differentiators. These are differentiators for employees. These are differentiators for customers. I believe that software is one of the big differentiators for businesses today and going forward. And that will continue to be so where businesses may be invested in supply chains, invested in certain types of technologies. Business will continue to invest in software because software is that differentiator. And if you look at where we fit, you can go, you can go buy, some great set of software, my software as a service off the shelf. In the end, you're just like every other business you bought the same thing that everybody else had bought. You can go the traditional development route, where you invest a bunch of money, it's a high risk, takes a long time. And once again, you may not get what you want. We believe what is most important to businesses. Get that unique software that fits like a glove that is great for employees, it's great for their customers. And it is a unique differentiator for them. And I really see that in 2022, that's going to be big and going forward. They're the legs for that type of investment that companies make and they return on that is huge. >> I agree with you on that in terms of software as a differentiator. Now we're seeing every company become a software company in every industry these days to be, first to survive in the last 20 months and now to be competitive, it's really kind of a must have. So, Patrick thank you for joining me on the program, talking about Project Neo, GA in the first quarter of calendar year 22. Exciting stuff we appreciate your feedback and your insights and congratulations on Project Neo. >> Thanks, Lisa, appreciate it. >> For Patrick Jean, I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBEs continuous coverage of re:Invent 2021. (Outro music)

(bright music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We have Michael D´aniello, platform architect at VMware's Carbon Black. Michael, great to see you. We're here at re-Invent virtual hybrid in person. Great to have you on theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, thanks a lot. Glad to be here. >> So one of the big stories that we're tracking, obviously, is workloads. All cloud for all workloads. Obviously the data is a big part of things, but under the covers and optimizing cloud for the application developers, this modern application movement is more and more at the top of the stack. People just wanting to code. Infrastructure as code. You've seen DevSecOps is a big trend that's driving all new microservices, all new greatness for developers, but still, there's an optimization question. I want to get your thoughts on this, is what you do. Take a minute to explain what your role is at Carbon Black around this cloud optimization. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so my name is Michael D'aniello. I am a platform architect of VMware Carbon Black. I work across all the different engineering teams. And our main objective is to develop scalable platform tools and that includes, yeah, cloud security, automation pieces, pipelines, cost optimization, like we'll be talking about today, developer enablement tooling and observability tooling. >> One of the big things about instances is that, you know, do I have enough instances? 'Cause honestly, the elastic cloud is amazing, all kinds of new resources there, but talk about the AMD portion of the instances. How do we identify these instances? How to developers understand it, what's in them, and what's the selection criteria? Take us through that whole process of the Amazon web service and the AMD instances. >> Yeah, sure. So essentially, we're leveraging a lot of our instances to run our EKS clusters, which is a managed service for me and for us to run our Kubernetes clusters. And we identify that we can take a bunch of those instances and gain some cost optimization benefits by selecting from Intel to AMD processors. And, you know, initially, we had measured out to be roughly a 10% reduction in cost just for selecting that instance type. But yeah, we actually learned we gained quite a bit more, so. >> John: You know, developers are always like, I want more power, and this is what, you know, the whole idea of Cloud is. Cloud scale has been a big competitive advantage, but also the cost aspect of it. What's the balance between maximizing performance and cost optimization? Because now, you know, people don't want to, you know, they want more power. They also don't want to have a lot of extra spend. And this is kind of one of those things they talk about in Cloud where it's been so successful, cost is important. >> Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's got to be easy, too, to get that cost optimization benefit. Otherwise, you're spending all your cycles and burning that money there in the human capital and the team and the engineering effort. So luckily, this change is a one-line change. We use Terraform for our automated provisioning, a layer, and we were able to make that one line change and then developers didn't have to make any application changes, which was great. So it was a no-brainer for us to pursue this. >> Talk about the EC2 instances that leverage AMD based process for the EKS, you mentioned that earlier, what is that all about? What's the benefits, what's in it for you guys? >> Yeah, for sure. So essentially, the workloads that are running on these instance types are actual Carbon Black Cloud application. So, all the backend systems that support our customers. And so in that use case, we're, you know, we're spinning up all of our containers that are running our applications and essentially, that's our use case for those instance types. >> How did you come to use the AWS EC2 instances on the AMD? Did you have an evaluation process? Did you just go select it? I mean, take us through that migration aspect of it. >> Yeah, sure, yeah. So originally, we're looking across the board. How can we do better cost optimization, right? And that goes across every different AWS resource, but we targeted this one specifically. We worked alongside with their AWS TAMs and representatives to basically find out, "Hey, is this financially worth the effort?" And we did reach that conclusion with some analysis, basically targeting these instance types and doing some analysis on that cost optimization specifically. And it ended up, you know, being the right thing to target. >> What was the ease of use of the switch? Take us through that. Was it a heavy lift? Was it seamless? Take us through the impact, there, on the move over and what were the results of that? >> Yeah, so I mean, that's the greatest thing. Like I said before, I mean, we had to make just a single line change just to change that instance type in our config and then roll that out across our regions. We did slow roll that in order to make sure that those changes in our development environments didn't make any, you know, performance hits or we didn't run into any snags with the applications themselves. But yeah, I mean, that's the greatest part about the story from my perspective is the ease to migrate over and to switch to these instance types, and then you just immediately gain that cost optimization benefit. >> You know what I love about what your job is, platform architect, that word kind of had a lot of meaning even 10, 15 years ago, but now with the Cloud, it's almost like you're always finagling and managing and massaging and nurturing the infrastructure to enable it. More new things are coming online as well, more high level services. So you've got a fun job and it's always evolving. How do you stay on top of it? What's the impact been for your customers, too, as you start deploying some of these new instance capabilities? Take us through kind of a day in the life of what you do and then what's the impact of customers? >> Yeah, sure. So, you know, like you said, there's quite a bit now to look at. You know, you got to stay on top of different blogs and keep connected with your network to see what your other colleagues are doing across different companies. You know, you can go into conferences like AWS re:Invent, right, to keep on the cutting edge here. But yeah, that's essentially, you know, one of the key aspects is just trying to look at all the different aspects, all the new technologies that are coming out, making sure you're making the right choices there and trying to get the most bang for your buck while you're at it. >> What are some of the big factors that you see in cloud native as you start to look at what customers are doing? Obviously with Kubernetes, your starting to see that platform develop inside the industry as well as defacto, kind of orchestration layer. But now as customers start to look at it, they want to have more ease of use there, too. At the same time, they don't want to have to do a lot of front end work. They want to get instant benefits in the Cloud, obviously, whether it's from a security standpoint or just rolling out a modern application. Okay, so as having all this infrastructure under the covers, how do you look at that problem and how do you capture that opportunity? >> Yeah, and I think that's why we're seeing a movement here on platform teams. It's kind of a newer terminology, usually a band of developers and SREs come together and say, "Well, we've got a lot of different things to look at. We're onboarding applications to Kubernetes, and we need to make tools so that developers don't have to think much about the transition and the underlying platform." And so that's one of our success metrics on the platform engineering team is just to almost, you know, be non-existent, right? To just have everything flow through our systems and then have just a high ease of use to onboard the applications to the new platform. >> You know, it looks like you have some great success with the AMD based instances. Can I ask you a question? 'Cause I wanted figure this out. How do you identify an AMD based instance when you're making the selections? >> Yeah, sure. It's as easy as just the A after the name. So for us, it was the C5.4XL. And if you want the AMD one, it's just the C5A.4XL. So I guess technically, instead of a one line change, it's actually a one letter change. So, quite easy there. >> Yeah, it's almost like back in the old glory days of command line, one quick update. The customer aspect of this is also important, too. If you don't mind, while I got you here, what are some of the things that you're hearing from your customers, from a performance standpoint, that they're looking for? Obviously, the cost optimization is key, but as they look to deploy more power and more performance, what are some of the things that your customers are looking for from Carbon Black? >> Yeah, so I mean, we are a security company, but we're really a data company because we have, you know, 8,000 customers, we processed over a trillion events per day, we ingress over a hundred terabytes of data per day. And so, our customers need high level performance. And if we can't provide that with low latency, we're not successful. So that's why, you know, performance on the underlying systems that are running our applications is super critical. >> Yeah, you're looking at trailblazer over there. I mean, the work that you guys are doing with the data is amazing. And that's a big theme at re:Invent this year is that data is a huge part. We look at the success of the cloud growth on this, I call gen-two cloud, happening. This whole modern movement is all about how people handle the data at scale, 'cause cloud scales here and now you've got processing all that data, The trailblazing that's going on, there's like this new wave of, I almost called it first-generation trailblazers, but you guys are doing that. What advice would you have for other architects out there and kind of the mainstream enterprises who are like, "Hey, I want to take advantage of the path that you guys have plowed through." What's your advice? >> Yeah, I think one of the key things in a place where we've had a lot of success is creating standards, making sure that we're choosing technology wisely, and making sure that your company isn't building the same solution in silos. And you know, that's a huge pattern that I've seen in my career. And if you can negate that, you're going to be in a great place. So, you know, choose the right technology, container first, cloud native first, push forward, and then make sure that everybody's kind of on that same ship running in the same direction. >> Well, great case study on this AMD based instance migration. Was there any uplift and experience that you've seen on the switch and the performance? Can you just talk about that? What does it mean to upgrade? What benefits are you seeing on the performance you have? >> Yeah, so I didn't hit on this yet and I really wanted to. Yeah, so upfront, the instance itself is 10% cheaper. However, we found out that we had to run far less instances because of that performance increase. So we ended up saving roughly 30% and we've continued to scale out. So at first, it was a couple of hundred instances. Now we're in the thousands and we're going to keep ramping up to over 10 thousands, tens of that. >> John: Let me get this right. So single line change, letter change, instance change. So you get not as many instances, and you save money, so you get cost optimization and higher performance. >> Yep. They say, if it's too good to be true, it's not. But in this case, it actually is. >> So why is it so good in your opinion? What did you discover? What was the big revelation that went down this path? Because that's good value proposition. >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, so initially, we were just chasing that initial BC to 10% and then as we kind of push it forward, we're looking at the metrics, month to month costs and we're actually saying, well, as we kind of swap over from one instance type to another, we're actually paying less. And then once we fully swapped over, it took five or six months to get to the same amount of costs as we continued to scale upward. So it's been a great story. >> It is a great story. It's super nuanced, but it's super important to know these platform benefits. I got to ask you on a personal question, if you don't mind. We love covering Cloud. We've been covering Amazon, it's our ninth year at re:Invent. Just love covering all the action and tech as this just total awesomeness environment. Cloud scale, innovation, capabilities, it's like surfing a big wave. But there's a bigger wave coming and we're seeing it now. I want to get your thoughts on this. As you look to the next big wave, beyond Cloud now, Cloud scale, data, new architecture is rolling out with Edge, basically distributing computing at large scale, and tons of security challenges, right? How do you look at this next big wave coming? Are you staring at it saying, wow, this is going to be huge? And how do you ride that wave? What's your mindset and how do you look at that? >> Well first of all, I'm extremely excited about it. Just the further this thing grows out, there's definitely more complexity, but just a whole slew of fun problems to solve. But when we look at these different problems and solving them at scale across multiple regions, it gets pretty exciting, right? So I can say one example of this is our security of our Cloud, not the security product, and we've developed automation for prevention and auto-remediation in our pipelines. It's been such a success story. And these type of technologies did not exist even a couple of years ago and we've been able to take advantage of them. So, there's going to be a lot more of that where that came from. So, yeah. >> Michael, great work. And again, you're truly a trailblazer, and this is, again, you got to do it. You got to screw your own cloud and stay on the cutting edge and ride that wave. Congratulations on the CostOp cloud optimization and the success with AMD based instances. Congratulations. Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Okay, this is theCUBEs coverage of AWS's re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (inspirational music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome everyone to this CUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. We have a lot going on at this year's re:Invent with over 100 guests on the program, and I'm excited to welcome two of those guests here with me right now. We are joined by Ralph Munsen, the Chief Information Officer at Warner Music Group and Atif Khan, the CTO of Alkira and founder of Alkira as well. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. So glad to be here with you. >> Good to be here. >> Yeah. Good old fashioned Zoom is become our best friend in the last 22 months or so I'm losing count. Atif, I'd like to start with you. I know Alkira has been on the key before, but it's been a while and you guys are a relatively young company. Give the audience an overview of Alkira and what it is that you deliver. >> Absolutely, Lisa. So we started back in may of 2018, and the Cloud networking space, multicloud networking. And we came out of stealth mode back in April of 2020, and launched the company. In fact, one of our first events coming out of stealth mode was a Cuban interview back in April of 2020. So here at Telecare, what we are doing is we are building a Cloud platform, which allows customers to build a common network across multiple Clouds with built-in network and security services, with the policy and management layer on top full end to end visibility and governance capabilities. And all of this is delivered as a service and consumed as a service as well. And I'm very glad to be here with Ralph, who is from Warner Music Group and is one of our marquee customers. So I'll let Ralph introduce himself, and tell us a bit more about Alkira and WMTS Cloud journey. >> That sounds great. Ralph, why don't you start by giving the audience? I'm sure everyone knows Warner Music Group, but in case there's anyone out there that might not. Give us a little bit of a background. >> Yeah, so the Warner Music Group has been around since 1950 and 1940 even it had its roots at Hollywood and out of Warner Brothers Pictures, Today, say global company in 79 countries we operated. If the 100 employees and we have two major divisions, we have our era recorded music division, which has the labels people commonly turn to Atlantic records, Warner brothers records, and so forth. And then we have our publishing division, which is more a chapel, which is where our songwriters live. And of course we have some singer songwriters that are on both sides of our business. But now currently people may know our artists. We have ed Sheeran, Bruno Mars, Coldplay, Cardi B, Blake Shelton and I could go on and on. But exciting, great year, we're having one of our best years ever. And I'm so glad to be here and partnering with an Alkira. >> Excellent. I love all of those artists that you mentioned. Fantastic. So let's talk a little bit now Ralph about the backstory. Talk to me about the IT infrastructure at Warner Music Group, what you had there and some of the challenges that you had that you came to Alkira to solve. >> Yeah, well initially when I took over about five years ago now, we were very much a data center based business with traditional networking and IT functions. Additionally with our foreign affiliates, IT was sort of decentralized in the sense that a lot of the networking and data center components were left to regions. And so while we operated globally, we didn't really operate globally, at Warner among our affiliates. So one of the challenges was how do we get out of the data center? Cloud was new. One of the big things that were coming with big data, which is absolutely right for moving, going straight to the Cloud, especially if you don't have anything on-prem and how do we rationalize all of these different locations and conduct all the M&A work we've been doing? So it was quite a challenge, really. At the end, we wanted to have one view of the network, and now Alkira. I looked at many of companies and I'm curious in the best to provide that to us. So. >> Well, talk to me a little bit more about why Alkira, because as Atif was saying, they're very young. What came out of stealth mode during the pandemic Warner Music Group, being around since the 40s and 50s, the legacy institution, a great brand. What made you take a risk on such an early stage startup? >> Quite frankly, there was nothing in the space (chuckles) at the time you loved, there were companies that had components of it, of what Alkira does, which is basically network orchestration allowing us to use existing components. And nobody has the whole package, especially incorporating security. So, we figured why not take, take a chance? There's no, it won't hurt you no harm. And if anything is successful, it will give us a great ability to manage our network, much more efficiently taking things that took days down to hours and being able to do it much more efficiently with much fewer staff, as opposed to hiring a lot more because when you orchestrate all the components that are underneath, obviously it requires more bodies, more resources. >> Right. That efficiency and cost optimization is key there. Atif I have to ask you, talk to me about, this is only a few years ago, the gap in the market that you and your brothers saw a few years ago, when you founded the company, because as Rob was saying, there was nobody else in the market at the time that could do what you're doing. >> Yeah, absolutely. So Lisa, as you know, myself and Amir, we were also a part of the founding team of Viptela, which was the SD-WAN Company. So back in the day when we did SD-WAN, the requirement was to connect sites together. So if you go back like 5, 10, 5, 7, 10 years ago, networking was done to connect sites together, which could be remote sites, data centers, sites to data centers, all of that together. But fast forward, a few more years with the adoption of Cloud, requirements changed from the networking perspective. So now your network is not just connecting sites together, but most of the traffic now is from sites or users, which could be sitting anywhere. If you look at, what's going on? in the pandemic people are working from all across the globe. They are not just sitting in campuses or sites. So traffic patterns are from sites or users mostly to the Cloud or SaaS applications. So now networks also need to evolve and they need to be built inside the Cloud rather than from outside or connecting into the Cloud. So Cloud access is one capability, but building a network inside the Cloud becomes a requirement. And secondly, now it's not just only about connectivity because security becomes even more important because your security perimeter is changing as well. So securing all these Cloud networks becomes very, very complicated. And now as Ralph can tell you, majority of the enterprises have a multicloud strategy and each Cloud is done differently. So the moment you bring in multiple Clouds, multiple regions across the globe, it becomes so complicated for enterprises to build and manage. They need something, or a platform which makes it easy, gives them one way of doing networking, building a common network across whether you're connecting multiple Clouds or Clouds to your on-prem locations or Clouds to internet or sites to internet. So that's where we saw this gap and we decided to build Alkira to tackle this problem. >> Got it. So Rob, let's talk now about what you've implemented as a team was saying we live in this, in this work from anywhere hybrid multicloud world. Talk to us about Warner, what you implemented and maybe a little bit about your multicloud strategy, if you've got one. >> Ralph: Yeah. So over the last five years, Warner has migrated entirely into Cloud. And to this point before it's multicloud, we're mainly in AWS, but we do have some pleasure and some Google Cloud. And with that, I was telling Atif and Amir. It was interesting and they built a Cloud on site. They totally forgot about the networking aspect. So (laughs), you have ease of use for services and servers inside (indistinct) cloud, but networking is not really present, not to mention when it was built out, it wasn't made to go to competing Clouds. So most companies are facing this problem. How do you treat these environments as a single holistic environment? How do you turn things up, turn things down? How do you secure it, When every single one is different habits, selling unique ways of doing things? So that really was, how we ended up looking for an out Alkira, because I just kept looking at the costs and the profit print grow and grow and grow. And the complexity to a (indistinct) before is growing exponential. One change in one thing would lead to two changes to another. If you add another Cloud or you add another point on the network, you've got exponential growth and complexity, complexity, you have to deal with. So one stop shop. (chuckles) >> One stop shop and reducing that complexity. Talk to me about reducing complexity, and what you're accomplishing there. Especially, in the last year and a half as things have been so dynamic, shall we say? (chuckles) >> Yeah, well, I will say this. It was turnkey for the most part. It took a matter of months as opposed to years, because out of the box, there was a lot of integrations with the major network of players. So as of right now, you can buy firewalls, routing, VPC, things like this, they all exist, but they're not orchestrated together. Right? And then you have policies and security, again not orchestrating a different set of tools. So it really only took us two to three months to get it up and running, I acts, I just had a conversation (chuckles) with them when we were going to finish. So I think we'll be finishing this up completely in January and sometime. So, I was pretty sure. >> LISA: That's fantastic. So really, >> Yeah. >> Sorry Relaph fast time to market there with getting things implemented. Talk to me about from a business outcome perspective, you are CIO, what are some of the outcomes? That this technology is enabling you to deliver back to the business? >> Yeah, it really, the number 1, 2 big ones come to mind. One being able to provide them a secure enterprise. I know when there is the change it's made uniforms for our network without, some of older something's being forgotten about. So that's number one, security is big. You can imagine a company like more ever marquee brands, all brands, any company of marquee brands are targets today. That's number one. Number two is our time to market for eminent. So when we buy a company the time it takes us to get them to be completely part of Warner and therefore start realizing the business case and benefits sort of reasonably bought. Bought the company to begin with. So, we're buying a lot more and we're turning them up and turning those business cases up faster. But usually those cases would say things like six months to a year to integrate with us, and then we can unlock the set of benefits. Now it's more like, two to three months and you start to be able to lock the benefits sooner. And of course, those are different than a case by case basis, but that's. >> Sure, but significantly faster there, you're looking at a two to three X multiplier there, as you talked about. >> Ralph: right. >> Now, you mentioned multicloud Ralph. So here we are at re:Invent. I imagine part of your AWS as part of your Cloud infrastructure and they're a technology partner of ALkira's. >> Ralph: Correct. Yeah. So AWS is actually our biggest Cloud provider of the three, and yeah (laugh) they're their partner without cure. So Good. >> And Atif then you, Alkira's technology partner of AWS, correct? >> Yeas. Alkira is a technology partner of AWS, we are also available on AWS marketplace. So customers can consume, AlKira's platform from AWS marketplace as well. >> But given the fact that so many businesses in every industry are multicloud, I assume that you work with all the Cloud vendors. Atif Yeah? >> Absolutely. So our platform runs inside of the Cloud and runs in AWS is a Cloud as well. And from there it connects to multiple Clouds. So if customers need to connect to Azure or AWS from there or Oracle Cloud or any other Cloud, for that matter, they can connect from our platform and our platform is it scales horizontally. So as customers needs scale, it scales as well. And one of the key advantages is, it's consumed as a service. So there's no software to download or hardware to run for or to acquire for any of the customers. It's a software solution and it's consumed as a service. >> Got it. Ralph one on one more question for you before we wrap things up here, want to get your recommendations for IT Executives, CEOs, who might be in a similar situation to you, whether or not they are with a legacy organization, what are some of your recommendations that you say you need to be looking at a, B and C? >> Yeah, I would primarily say really need to be looking at some of these newer technologies that can help speed up, people, especially in this case to transition to the Cloud and that planning ahead of time, especially goal-setting, I find to be it's any of these places, providers is absolutely Paramount, because you can, if you don't make your own (indistinct) take that step forward and you can end up with shelter. So I make sure that it's very important that when you commit to that, you commit fully, you plan it out and you make sure you actually use it to get the benefits. One of my tech key is software. So. (chuckles) (Lisa Laughing) I'm a bit of it so. >> Well, you've been there and It costs a lot of money and it doesn't do any good. It doesn't move the business forward. And in this day and age, there is a competitor right behind the rear view mirror who might be smaller, more nimble, and more agile, who can take your place easily. >> Absolutely. >> If the organization isn't willing to take the risks and commit, as you said, Atif last question over for you, where are the customers go to learn more? I know you are at re:Invent your booth 1628, but what do you recommend folks go attendees of the event, as well as just other prospects to go to learn more about what you guys are delivering for companies like Warner Music Group. >> So if you're at re:Invent, please stop by our booth. And one of our Cloud specialists will give you a demo as well. So it's a very quick demo and you'll see, how we are reinventing networking for the Cloud narrow. You can also go to our website and you'll find a lot of information on our website. You can request a demo there as well. So look forward to seeing most of you at our booth and those who are not attending in person, please go visit our website. >> Lisa: Reinventing Networking. I like your play on words. They are Atif very appropriate. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me today talking about Alkira, Warner Music Group, what you guys are doing together and how this new early stage technology is really quite transformative. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> For Ralph Munsen and Atif Khan, I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. Thanks for watching. (soft techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We're here with James Watters, CTO of Modern Applications at VMware here to talk about the big Tanzu cloud native application wave, the modernization's here. James, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey John, great to have you back on. And really excited about re:Invent this year. And I've been watching your coverage of it. There's lots of exciting stuff going on in this space. >> Awesome. Well, James, you've been riding the wave of, I would call cloud 1.0, 2.0 what do you want to call it, the initial wave of cloud where the advent of replatforming is there. You know all these benefits and things are moving fast. Things are being developed. A lot of endeavors, things are tracking. Some are kicking, Kubernetes kicks in, and now the big story is over the past year and a half. Certainly the pandemic highlighted is this big wave that's hitting now, which is the real, the modernization of the enterprise, the modernization of software development. And even Amazon was saying that in one of our talks that the sovereign life cycles over it should be completely put away to bed. And that DevOps is truly here. And you add security, you got DevSecOps. So an entirely new, large scale, heavy use of data, new methodologies are all hitting right now. And if you're not on that wave your driftwood, what's your take? >> Oh, I think you're dead John, and you know, kind of the first 10 years of working on this for sort of proving that the microservices, the container, the declared of automation, the DevOps patterns were the future. And I think everyone's agreed now. And I think DevSecOps and the trends around app modernization are really around bringing that to scale for enterprises. So the conversations I tend to be having are, Hey, you've done a little Kubernetes. You've done some modern apps and APIs, but how do you really scale this across your enterprise? That's what I think is excited today. And that's what we're talking about. Some of the tools we're bringing to Amazon to help people achieve faster, consumption, better scale, more security. >> You know, one of the things about VMware that's been impressive over the years is that on the wave of IT, they already had great operational install base. They did a deal with Amazon Ragu did that. I think 2016, that kind of cleared the air. They're not going to do their own cloud or they have cloud efforts kind of solidifies that. And then incomes, Kubernetes, and then you saw a completely different cloud native wave coming in with the Tanzu, the Heptio acquisition. And since then a lot's been done. Can you just take us through the Tanzu evolution because I think this is a cornerstone of what's happening right now. >> Yeah, that's a great question, John. I think that the emergence of Kubernetes as a common set of APIs that every cloud and almost every infrastructure agrees on was a huge one. And the way I talked to our clients about is that VMware is doing a couple of things in this space. The first is that we're recognizing that as an infrastructure or baking Kubernetes into every vSphere, be it vSphere on-prem, be it BMC on Amazon. You're just going to find Kubernetes is a big part of each year. So that's kind of a big step one, but it's in some ways the same way that Amazon is doing with EKS and Azure EKS, but like every infrastructure provider is bringing Kubernetes everywhere. And then that kind of unleashes this really exciting moment where you've got this global control plane that you can program to be your DevSecOps platform. And Kubernetes has this incredible model of extensibility where you can add CRDs and program, right against the Kubernetes APIs with your additional features and functions you want your DevSecOps pipeline. And so it's created this opportunity for Tanzu to kind of have then a global control plan, which we call Tanzu Mission Control to bring all of those Kubernetes running in different clouds together. And then the last thing that we'll talk about a little bit more is this Tanzu Application Platform, which is bringing a developer experience to Kubernetes. So that you're not always starting with what I like to say, like, oh, I have Kubernetes, am I done? There's a lot more to the story than that. >> I want to get to this Tanzu Application Platform on EKS. I think that's a big story at VMware. We've seen that, but before we do that for the folks out there watching who are like, I'm now seeing this, whether they're young, new to the industry or enterprises who have replatforming or refactoring, trying to understand what is a modern application. So give us the definition in your words, what is a modern application? >> You know, John, it's a great question. And I tend to start with why and like, hey, how did we get here? And you, you and I both, I think, used to work for the bigger iron vendors back in the day. And we've seen the age of the big box Silicon Valley. I don't know, I worked at Sun just across the aisle here and basically we'd sell you a big box and then once or twice a year, you'd change the software on it. And so in a sense, like there was no chance to do user-oriented design or any of these things. Like you kind of got what you got and you hope to scale it. And then modern applications have been much more of the age of like what you might say, like Instagram or some of these modern apps that are very user-oriented and how you're changing that user interface that user design might change every week based on user feedback. And you're constantly using big data to adjust that modern app experience. And so modern apps to me are inherently iterative and inherently scalable and amenable to change. And that's where the 12 factor application manifesto was written, a blog was written a decade ago, basically saying here's how you can start to design apps to be constantly upgradable. So to me, modern apps, 12 of factors, one of them Kubernetes compatible, but the real point is that they should be flexible to be constantly iterated on maybe at least once a week at a minimum and designed and engineered to do that. And that takes them away from the old vertically scaled apps that kind of ran on 172 processors that you would infrequently update in the past. Those are what you might call like cloud apps. Is that helpful? >> Yeah, totally helpful. And by the way, those old iron vendors, they're now called the on-premise vendors and, you know, HPE, Dell and whatnot, IBM. But the thing about the cloud is, is that you have the true infrastructure as code happening. It's happened, it's happening, but faster and better and greater the goodness there. So you got DevSecOps, which is just DevOps with security. So DevSecOps is the standard now that everyone's shooting for. So what that means is I'm a developer, I just want to write code, the infrastructure got to work for me. So things like Lambda functions are all great things. So assuming that there's going to be this now programmable layer for developers just to do stuff. What is, in context to that need, what is the Tanzu Application Platform about and how does it work? >> Yeah, that's a great question, John. So once you have Kubernetes, you have this abundance of programmable, inner infrastructure resources. You can do almost anything with it, right? Like you can run machine learning workflows, you can run microservices, you can build APIs, you can import legacy apps to it, but it doesn't come out of the box with a set of application patterns and a set of controllers that are built for just, you know, modern apps. It comes with sort of a lot of flexibility and it expects you to understand a pretty broad surface area of APIs. So what we're doing is we're following in the footsteps of companies like Netflix and Uber, et cetera, all of which built kind of a developer platform on top of their Kubernetes infrastructure to say, here's your more templatized path to production. So you don't have to configure everything. You're just changing the right parts of the application. And we kind of go through three steps. The first is an application template that says, here's how to build a streaming app on Kubernetes, click here, and you'll get in your version control and we'll build a Kubernetes manifest for it. Two, is an automated containerization, which is we'll take your app and auto create a container for it so that we know it's secure and you can't make a mistake. And then three is that it will auto detect your application and build a Kubernetes deployment for it so that you can deploy it to Kubernetes in a reliable way. We're basically trying to reduce the burden on the developer from having to understand everything about Kubernetes, to really understanding their domain of the application. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, and this kind of is inline, you mentioned Netflix early on. They were one of the pioneers in inside AWS, but they had the full hyperscaler developers. They had those early hardcore devs that are like unicorns. No, you can't hire these people. They're just not many enough in the world. So the world's becoming, I won't say democratization, that's an overused word, but what we're getting to is if I get this right, you're saying you're going to eliminate the heavy lifting, the boring mundane stuff. >> Yeah, even at Netflix as is great of a developers they have, they still built kind of a microservices or an application platform on top of AWS. And I think that's true of Kubernetes today, which if you go to a Kubernetes conference, you'll often see, don't expose Kubernetes to developers. So tons of application platforms starts to really solve that question. What do you expose to a developer when they want to consume Kubernetes? >> So let's ask you, I know you do a lot of customer visits, that's one of the jobs that make you go out in the field which you like doing and working backwards on the customers has been in the DNA of VMware for years. What is the big narrative with the customers? What's their pain point? How else has the pandemics shown them projects that are working and not working, and they want to come out of it with a growth strategy. VMware is now an independent company. You guys got the platform, what are the customers doing with it? >> Well, I'll give you one example. You know, I went out and I was chatting with the retailer, had seen their online sales goes from one billion to like three billion during the pandemic. And they had been using kind of packaged shopping cart software before like a basic online store that they bought and configured. And they realized they needed to get great at modern apps to keep up with customer demand. And so I would say in general, we've seen the drive, the need for modern apps and digital transformation is just really skyrocketing and everyone's paying attention to it. And then I think they're looking for a trusted partner and they're debating, do we build it all in-house or do we turn to a partner that can help us build this above the cloud? And I think for the people that want an enterprise trusted brand, they'll have a lot of engineering talent behind it. There's been strong interest in Tanzu. And I think the big message we're trying to get out is that Tanzu can not only help you in your on-prem infrastructure, but it can also really help you on public cloud. And I think people are surprised by just how much. >> It's just in the common thread. I see that it's that point is right on is that these companies that don't digitize their business and build an application for their customer are going to get taken away by a startup. I mean, we've seen, it's so easy if you don't have an app for that, you're out of business. I mean, this is like, no, no, it's not like maybe we should do the cloud, let's get proactive. Pretty much it's critical path now for companies. So I'm sure you agree with that, but what's the progress of most of the enterprises? What percentage do you think are having this realization? >> I would say at least 70, 80%, if not more, are there now, and 10 years ago, I used to kind of have to tell stories, like, you know, some startups going to come along and they might disrupt you and people kind of give you that like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I get it. And now it's sort of like, hey, someone's already in our market with an API. Tell me how to build API first apps we need to compete. And that's the difference in the strategic conversation kind of post pandemic and post, you know, the last 10 years. >> All right, final question for you 'cause this is right great thread. I've seen having a web interface it's not good enough, to your point. You got to have an application that they're engaging with, with all the modern capabilities, because the needs there, the expectation for the customers there. What new things are you seeing beyond mobile that are coming around the pike for enterprises, obviously web to mobile, mobile to what? What's next? >> I think the thing that's interesting is there is a bigger push to say more and more of what we do should be an API both internally, like, hey, other teams might want to consume some of these services as a well-formed API. I call it kind of like Stripe MB. Like you look at all these companies, they're like, Hey, stripes worth a hundred billion dollars now because they built a great API. What about us? And so I've seen a lot of industries from automotive to of course financial services and others that are saying, what if we gave our developers internally great APIs? And what if we also expose those APIs externally, we could get a lot, a more rat, fast moving business than the traditional model we might've had in the past. >> It's interesting, you know, commoditizing and automating a way infrastructure or software or capable workflows is actually normal. And if you can unify that in a way that's just better I mean, you have a lower cost structure, but the value doesn't go away, right? So I think a lot of this comes down to, beauty's in the eye of the beholder. I mean, that's how DevSecOps works. I mean, it's agile, it's faster, but you still have to achieve the value of the net is lower cost. What's your take on that? >> Well, I think you're dead right, John. And I think this is what was surprising about Stripe is it was possible before Stripe to go out as a developer and kind of pulled together a backend that did payments, but boy, it was hard. And I think that's the same thing with kind of this tons of application platform and the developer experience focus is people are realizing they can't hire enough developers. So this is the other thing that's happened during the pandemic and the great resignation, if you will, the war for talent is on. And you know, when I talked to a customer, like we might be able to help you, even 30% with your developer productivity, there's like one out of four developers. You might not have to be able to have to recruit they're all in. And so I think that API first model and the developer experience model are the same thing, which is like, it doesn't have to just be possible. It should be excellent. >> Well, great insight learning a lot. Of course, we should move to theCube API and we'll plug into your applications. We're here in the studio with our API, James. Great to have you on. Final word, what's your take this, the big story for re:Invent. If you had to summarize this year's re:Invent going in to 2022, what would you say is happening in this industry right now? >> You know, I'm just super excited about the EKS market and how fast it's growing. We're seeing EKS in a lot of places. We're super excited about helping EKS customers scale. And I think it's great to see Amazon adopting that standard API from Kubernetes. And I think that's going to be, just awesome to watch the creativity the industry is going to have around it. >> Well, great insight, thanks for coming on. And again, we'll work on that Cube API for you. The virtualization of theCUBE is here. We're virtual, which we could be in-person and hope to see you in-person soon. Thanks for coming on. >> You too John, thank you. >> Okay, Cube's coverage of alias re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host for theCUBE. In this segment, we're going to be talking about Red Hat and the AWS evolving partnership. A great segment, really talking about how Hybrid and the Enterprise are evolving, certainly multicloud and the horizon. But a lot of benefits in the cloud, we've been covering on theCUBE and on SiliconANGLE with Red Hat for the past year. Very relevant. We've got Gunnar Hellekson, GM of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, And Joe Fernandes, VP and GM of the Hybrid Platforms, both of Red Hat. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah, thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us John. >> So, you know, me, I'm a fan boy of Red Hat. So I always say, you guys made all the right investments, OpenShift, all these things that you guys made decisions years ago playing out beautifully. And I think, you know, with Amazon's re:Invent, you're seeing the themes all play out. Modern application stack, you're starting to see things at the top of the stack evolve, you've got 5G in the Edge, workloads being redefined and expanded on the cloud with Cloud Scale. So everything has been going down to Hybrid and Enterprise grade level discussions. This is in the Wheelhouse of Red Hat. So I want to congratulate you. But what's your reaction? What do you guys see this year at re:Invent? What's the top story? >> I can start. >> Who wants to start with first? >> Sure, I mean, clearly, AWS itself is huge. But as you mentioned, the world is Hybrid, right, so customers are running still in their data center, in the Amazon Public Cloud across multiple Public Clouds and out to the Edge and bring in more and more workloads. So it's not just the applications, analytics. It's AI, it's machine learning. And so, yeah, we can expect to see more discussion around that, more great examples of customer use cases. And as you mentioned, Red Hat has been right in the middle of this for some time John. >> You guys also had some success with the fully managed OpenShift service called ROSA, R-O-S-A, which is Red Hat OpenShift Service on AWS, another acronym, but really this is about what the customers are looking for. Can you take us through an update on OpenShift on AWS, because the combination of managed services in the cloud, refactoring applications, but working on-premises is a big deal. Take us through why that's so important. >> Yeah, so, we've had customers running OpenShift on AWS for a long time, right? So whether it's our software-based offerings where customers deploy OpenShift themselves, or our fully managed cloud service. We've had cloud services on AWS for over five years. What ROSA brings or Red Hat OpenShift on AWS is a jointly managed service, right? So we're working in partnership with Amazon, with AWS to make OpenShift available as a jointly-managed service offering. It's a native AWS service offering. You can get it right through the AWS console. You can leverage your AWS committed spend. But, most importantly, you know, it's something that we're working on together. Bringing new customers to the table for both Red Hat and AWS. And we're really excited about it because it's really helping customers accelerate their move to the public cloud and really helping them drive that Hybrid strategy that we talked about. >> Gunnar, you know what I want to get your thoughts on this, because one of the things that I love about this market right now is open-source continues to be amazing, continues to drive more value, and there's new migration of talent coming in. The numbers are just continuing to grow and grow. But the importance of Red Hat's history with AWS is pretty significant. I mean, Red Hat pioneered Open-source and it's been involved with AWS from the early days. Can you take us through a little bit of history for the folks that may not know Red Hat's partnership with AWS? >> Yeah. I mean, we've been collaborating with AWS since 2008. So for over a decade we've been working together, and what's made the partnership work is that we have a common interest in making sure that customers have a consistent approachable experience. Whether they're going on-premise or in the cloud. Nobody wants to have to go through an entire retraining and retooling exercise just to take advantage of all the great advantages of the cloud. And, so being able to use something like Red Hat Enterprise Linux as a consistent substrate on which you can build your application platforms is really attractive. So, that's where the partnership started. And since then we've had the ability to better integrate with native AWS services. And one thing I want to point out is that, a lot of these integrations are kind of technical. It's not just about technical consistency across these platforms, it's also about operational consistency and business concerns. And when you're moving into an Open Hybrid Cloud kind of a situation, that's what becomes important, right? You don't want to have two completely different tool sets on two completely different platforms. You want as much consistency as possible as you move from one to the other. And I think a lot of customers see value in that, both for the Red Hat Enterprise Linux side of the business, and also on the OpenShift side of the business. >> Well that's interesting. I'd love to get your both perspective on this whole Enterprise focus, because the Enterprise is, as you know, guys you've been there from the beginning, they have requirements. And there're sometimes, they're different by Enterprise. So as you see cloud, and I remember early days of Amazon, it's the 15th year of AWS, 10th year of re:Invent as a conference. I mean, that seems like a lifetime ago. But that's not, not too far ago where, you know, it was like, well, Amazon might not make it, its only for developers. Enterprisers do their own thing. Now it's like, it's all about the Enterprise. How are Enterprise customers evolving with you guys? Because they're all seeing the benefit of replatforming. But as they refactor, how has Red Hat evolved with that trend and how have you helped Amazon? >> Yeah, so as we mentioned, Enterprisers really across the globe are adopting a Hybrid Cloud Strategy. But, Hybrid actually isn't just about the infrastructure. So, its certainly the infrastructure where these Enterprisers are running these applications is increasingly becoming Hybrid as you move from data center to multiple public clouds and out to the Edge. But the Enterprisers application portfolios are also Hybrid, right? It's a Hybrid mix of very traditional monolithic and tier type applications. But also new cloud native services that have either been built from scratch, or as you mentioned, existing applications have been refactored. And then they're moving beyond the applications, as I mentioned to make better use of data. Also evolving their processes for how they build, deploy, and manage, leveraging, CI/CD and GitOps and so forth. So really for us it's, how do you help Enterprises bring all that together, right? Manage this Hybrid infrastructure that's supporting this Hybrid portfolio of applications that really help them evolve their processes. We've been working with Enterprises on these types of challenges for a long time. And we're now partnering with Amazon to do the same in terms of our joint product and service offerings. >> Talking about the RHEL evolution. I mean, because that's the bread and butter for Red Hat. It has been there for a long time. OpenShift again, making argument earlier, I mentioned the bets you guys made with Kubernetes, for instance, and it's all been made with all the right moves. So I love ROSA. You got me sold on that. RHEL though has been the tried and true steady workhorse. How has that evolved with workloads? >> Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think when customers were at the stage, when they were wondering, if well, can I use AWS to solve my problem, or should I use AWS to solve my problem? Our focus was largely on kind of technical enablement. Can we keep up with the pace of new hardware that Amazon is rolling up? Can we ensure that consistency with the on-premise and off-premise? And I think now we're starting to shift focus into really differentiating RHEL on the AWS platform. Again, integrating natively with AWS services, making it easier to operate in AWS. And a good example of this is using tools like Red Hat Insights, which we announced, I guess, about a year ago. Which is now included in every Red Hat Enterprise Linux subscription. Using tools like Insights in order to give customers advice on maybe potential problems that are coming up, helping customer solve them. Can the customers identify problems before they happen? Helping them with performance problems. And again, having additional tools like that, additional cloud-based tools, makes RHEL as easy to use on the Cloud despite all the complexity of all the redeploying, refactoring, microservices, there is now a proliferation of infrastructure options, and to the extent that RHEL can be the thing that is consistent, solid, reliable, secure, just as customers are getting in, then we can make customer successful. >> You know, Joe, we talked about this last time we were chatting, I think Red Hat Summit or Ansible Fest, I forget which event it was, but we were talking about how modern application developers at the top of the stack just want to code. They want to write some code, and now they want the infrastructure's code, AKA DevOps, DevSecOps, but as this trend of moving up the stack continues to be a big theme at re:Invent, that requires automation. That requires a lot of stuff that happened under the covers. Red Hat is at the center of all this action from historical perspective, pre-existing Enterprises before Cloud now, during Cloud, and soon to be Cloud Scale, how do you see that evolving? Because how are customers shaping their architecture? Cause this is distributed computing in the cloud. It's essentially, we've seen this moving before, but now at such a scale where data, security, these are all new elements. How do you talk about that? >> Yeah, well, first of all, got to mention, Linux is a given right. Linux is going to be available in every environment, data center, Public Cloud, Edge. Linux combined with Linux containers and Kubernetes, that's the abstraction like abstracting the applications away from the infrastructure. And now it's all about how do you build on top of that to bring that automation that you mentioned. So, we're very focused on helping customers really build fully automated end to end deployment pipelines, so they can build their applications more efficiently. They can automate the continuous integration and deployment of those applications into whatever Cloud or Edge footprint they choose. And that they can promote across environments. Because again, it's not just about developing the applications, it's about moving them all the way through to production where their customers are relying on those services to do their work and so forth. And so that's what we're doing is, you know, obviously I think, Linux is a given, Linux, Containers, Kubernetes. Those decisions have been made and now it's a matter of how can we put that together with the automation that allows them to accelerate those deployments out to production so customers can take advantage of them? >> You know, Gunnar, we were joking in theCUBE. I was old enough to remember we used to install Linux on a server back in the day. Now a lot of these young developers never actually have to install the software and do some of those configurations 'cause it's all automated now. Again, the commoditization and automation trend, abstraction layers, some say, is a good thing. So how do you see the evolution of this DevOps movement with the partnership with AWS going forward? What types of things are you working on with Amazon Web Services and what kind of offerings can customers look forward to? >> Yeah, sure. So, I mean, it used to be that as you say, Linux was something that you managed with a mouse and keyboard. And I think it's been quite a few years since any significant amount of Linux has been managed with a mouse and a keyboard. A lot of it is scripts, automation tools, configuration management tools, things like this. And the investments we've made both in RHEL and in specifically RHEL on AWS is around enabling RHEL to be more manageable. And so, including things like something we call System Roles. So these are Ansible modules that kind of automate routine system's administration tasks. We've made investments in something called Image Builder. And so this is a tool that allows customers to kind of compose the operating system that they need, create a blueprint for it, and then kind of stamp out the same image, whether it's an ISO image, so you can install it on-premise or an AMI so we can deploy it in AWS. So again, the problem used to be helping customers package and manage dependencies and that kind of old world, three and a half-inch floppy disc kind of Linux problems. And now we've evolved towards making Linux easier to deploy and manage at a grand scale whether you're in AWS or whether you're On premise. >> Joe, take us through the Hybrid story. I know obviously success with OpenShifts Managed Service on AWS. What's the update there for you? What are customers expecting this re:Invent and what's the story for you guys? >> Yeah, so, you know, the OpenShift Managed Services business this is the fastest growing segment of our business. We're seeing lots of new customers. And again, bringing new customers, I think for both Red Hat and AWS through this service. So, we expected to hear from customers at re:Invent about what they're doing. Again, not only with OpenShift and our Red Hat solutions, but really with what they're building on top of those service offerings, of those solutions to sort of bring more value to their customers. To me, that's always the best part of re:Invent is really hearing from customers. And when we all start going there in person again, to actually be able to meet with them one-on-one, whether it's in person or virtual and so forth. So, looking forward to that. >> Well, great to have you guys on theCUBE. Congratulations on all success. The Enterprise continues to adopt more and more Cloud which benefits all the work you guys have done both on the RHEL side, and as you guys modernize with all these great services and managed services continues to be the center of all the action. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> Thanks John. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Red Hat's partnership with AWS evolving as Cloud scale Edge, all distributed computing, all happening at large scale. This is theCUBE with CUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome back to theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier your host of theCUBE wall-to-wall coverage, Sumit Dhawan president of VMware is joining me today. Sumit, welcome to theCUBE. >> Great to be here, John, good to see you. >> You know, I remember Raghu when we were talking to him when the original AWS deal, we covered it many, many years ago. It seems like yesterday, but since then, again, it was a lot of people who were kind of like looking at that deal, not understanding. We were very clear that we thought that that was going to create clarity. If you look at the success of VMware's cloud strategy, since that moment in time, it really has been an amazing run for VMware. And so congratulations and looking at that trajectory, we're going into what even a bigger wave now we're seeing, coming out of the pandemic with Edge, 5g, Cloud Native going mainstream. This is like another tipping point, another inflection. Well, how are we want to look at it? This is really big. Can you share your thoughts on how you see your customers and AWS customers coming together with the VMware. >> Yeah, we are excited about sort of this phase, era or whatever you want to call it, where customers are looking at just the power of cloud for all of their applications. And in fact, what we call multicloud, where they are looking at private cloud, public cloud, sometimes even multiple public clouds and Edge and how they are going to leverage all of this power of cloud across all their applications. And we're excited about the partnership, like you said, John, we did with AWS, customers have last two years, have had a hard time modernizing their infrastructure. And now they're looking at their tier one applications, which are oftentimes the lifeline of their businesses and they have not been, the infrastructure has not been modernized. And our partnership with AWS brings to the customers a fully modernized infrastructure as a service, which is optimized for their tier one application. So they can embrace the power of cloud, not just for new modern applications that they have built for running their new digital services, but also all of their tier one enterprise applications instantly modernize their infrastructure, secure it run their tier one applications through the power and the scale of public cloud. And then gradually start modernizing, like you mentioned, modernization of application is a key element and we have provided a rich stack for customers to be able to build their new SRE and DevOps practices and enable developers to have a fast journey to build these modern applications, leveraging the power of public cloud and in fact multiple public clouds seamlessly, and we're extending the same thing to the Edge. So it's actually exciting times in the industry. We call it the multicloud era and VMware is enabling our customers what we call smartest path to cloud. >> Well, congratulations, first of all, on the new independent company, VMware, that's great news. You guys now are on your own very valuable company in and of itself, under Dell Technologies now out on the open and we've been covering VMware, theCube's been to VMware every year. And looking at this year's VMware and looking at VMware for the old folks, the veterans VMware has been synonymous with operations, IT operations, running workloads in data centers to power business, enterprise classic innovation for business value. Now with the cloud, you see operations DevOps being discussed in security. You're talking about, and you mentioned SRE the workloads. The game is still the same, but it is shifting landscape wise. You got cloud scale, you mentioned on premises and multi-cloud. So with operations going to full scale, your customers are building and running their businesses on VMware and AWS and other clouds. This is the same game, but different world. Can you just share what's the current similarities and differences from where operations used to be from a workload standpoint. >> John, you're a hundred percent, right. The need for operational scale and discipline is always, there has always been there and now it's extended to potentially lot more complex world of what we call multicloud. In this new world, the whole aspect of operations is no longer the world of system admins, where you would have people pushing buttons to control the infrastructure and it's lot more where infrastructure is now designed to be managed as a code. There is a lot more of what is considered shift left, where more and more of power of orchestrating the infrastructure as given to the developers because they're oftentimes the sort of ones who understand the business logic and understand how the infrastructure is required to scale up and down the applications. And so along those two key trends, there is still a critical element of how a platform is needed for customers to operate that in Miami okay. You can sort of have operational discipline be lost just because you have the paradigm changed and that's what VMware is enabling now with VMware stack, you can manage your entire infrastructure, not just public cloud, but even private cloud as a code, you can create a platform where developers get this freedom and a great experience to leverage any public cloud, to build their services and work closely with DevOps and SRE functions, to make sure that the orchestration of all of their cloud environment in a multicloud environment is available and enabled seamlessly through Kubernetes. This doesn't have to be done through virtual machines anymore it could be virtual machines or Kubernetes orchestrated containers across all clouds. And so bottom line operations has always been critical, but it has been done in a certain way in the world of multicloud it's changed to where it's more and more of infrastructure as a service shift left to developers and cybersecurity is extremely important where it needs to be built into the platform. And that's what VMware solutions are now enabling for our customers. >> Yeah, and for all the young guns coming into the business that have developers, the DevOps is still the same game. You've got developers and you've got operations now at large scale. And I think this whole multi-cloud is really kind of the multi-vendor equation so I think clear synergies and congratulations on the trajectory. I think it's really relevant. Can you take us through on how this means for the businesses, because at VMWorld this year, you guys talked about cross-cloud services. Can you talk about what that is and what does it mean for the customers, and what's the focus at reInvent this year? >> Yeah, so VMware this year at VMworld announced our sort of portfolio for enabling customers to embrace the power of multicloud easily. We call it cross-cloud services and they fit into five major categories. First is our cloud infrastructure that is available through partnership with all major cloud providers. We started with AWS and we expanded with all major cloud providers, including Azure, Google, Ali in China, Oracle, IBM. Secondly, our cloud native platform, Cloud native platform is where it doesn't have to be traditional VM based applications, applications built using modern cloud native technologies container-based, or that can be orchestrated using Kubernetes that are operationalized using our platform where customers can get any Kubernetes on any public cloud and operate them in a consistent and scalable fashion and enable a great developer experience at the same time. Third is networking and security services, which are underlay across both the cloud infrastructure, as well as cloud native services for this cloud management, how infrastructure as a code and shift-left developer function can be enabled through our management technologies designed for both private and public cloud, both VM based or VMware based infrastructure, as well as native public cloud infrastructure. And then lastly, at workspace and Edge services, enabling customers to build today's requirements of people working from anywhere and anywhere workspace experience for a hybrid workforce. So these are our five cloud services, John, that we call collectively as cross-cloud services, which enable customers to embrace the power of multicloud easily. These are modular, easy to acquire services designed to run across all clouds. And obviously for customers looking at leveraging the power of AWS, these services enable you to embrace it AWS at the fastest speed. >> Yeah and I think anything cross-cloud, multi-cloud, the ease of use and choice is key, you have to have choice that's cool. Open source is driving a lot of that, which I want to get to with the Tanzu, but you guys have had a great partnership with AWS, both on a development level, as well as a business partnership. Take us through the evolution of the partnership between VMware and AWS, because I know Raghu was really into this with Pat Gelsinger and then Andy Jassy, we covered that. But if you look at what Amazon web services is doing under Adam's leadership now they're going to set the table for the next 15 years. And you've got Outpost is going to be a big part of that. You've got all of the cloud native high level services inside the cloud, inside AWS as well. So take us through your view of the evolution of the VMware AWS partnership. >> Yeah I mean, AWS and VMware started a partnership for those of you who don't know, we started our partnership about five years ago, where we announced the availability of VMware cloud on AWS, which is all of our fully sort of modernized software defined data centers infrastructure available for running tear one enterprise applications on top of AWS all of their data centers globally. So our software with AWS hardware together as a managed service means customers could get fully modern infrastructure without refactoring any of their applications. They can run on AWS. And that relationship has grown significantly. We have continued to enable more and more of sort of different sized sort of platform infrastructure that we have continually made available. And the business has led to great success. We have at this point in time thousands of customers, joint customers running all of their tier one business applications, whether it's banking to healthcare, to insurance on top of our infrastructure, and it's been great. We then gradually expanded that partnership to other industries. Now we have customers in telcos running major telco cloud on top of our platform, we've expanded our partnership to other solutions. We brought our Tanzu, which is our cloud native platform for managing native cloud services on AWS, in an enterprise fashion, connected to all of their enterprise requirements as well in the marketplace we have brought other offerings, including security services on AWS marketplace for customers to get so over time. >> Hold on Sumit if you don't mind me asking, so you saying that Tanzu Carbon Black and VMware cloud are all in AWS marketplace. >> They're all available in AWS marketplace and they're all available to be transacted through even just the AWS's EDP. So the commercial relationship with AWS has strengthened significantly over time. >> EDP is their sales channel that's their direct. >> EDP is their enterprise agreement that's right. >> So you go to market together with AWS under the marketplace. >> Joint support integration so their customers can get joint support with us. So over time, the technology integration that started has led to strong commercial integrations, helping making sure customers can get one commercial agreement and one support agreement with VMware and AWS together. And that's been great for customers, customers have loved it and we are continuing to build upon it. Your second question was, well, what happens when AWS has new modern native services? And what we have done is for example, at Tanzu Solution, it is integrated with AWS's EKS. So their Kubernetes distribution can be fully operationalized as well as a great developer experience can be created for AWS native services using VMware Tanzu solution. So we are embracing the power of more and more of AWS services for our enterprise solutions. >> You know I love following VMware, especially and AWS. I spoke to companies, both very technical, pragmatic, very smart companies So congratulations on success. I got to ask you from a customer perspective, as you look at the landscape of the commercial side, what are the customers saying? What's the big summary of where they're at? What's the vibe, where's their head, what are they thinking? Take us through some anecdotal customer sentiment or data. >> Yeah, our customers tell us three things consistently. Number one, they say that they have, at this point of time, just decided that they're going to have some kind of a black solution, which will span multiple clouds, which could have public cloud, private cloud and Edge or multiple public clouds. In fact, we just did a recent survey, John and we found that 74% of our customers are already using multiple clouds. And 90 plus percent said that they want that freedom and choice to be able to use cloud of their choice and not be encumbered by any particular sort of just choice that they make. So that's the first trend we see, secondly, customers want to modernize their infrastructure and modernize their applications. They haven't been able to do so over the course of last two years, and modernization is a key requirement and VMware and AWS gives them that ability to do so now at this point in time, very, very quickly. And then third thing we hear is that customers are looking for some solution where cybersecurity is built in it's something where they are standardizing their enterprise requirements via a platform, which has a great experience for the developers, great operational scale and cybersecurity. And these are the three trends John, that VMware is solely focused on as part of our services and solutions and our partnership with AWS. >> Sumit, always great to talk to you. One final point. I want to get your reaction to a VMware has made a couple of big bets in the past decade. One, the deal with Amazon, which opened the door for multicloud, that path is clear. Cloud-scale check the box well done. And the other one was cloud native technologies and Kubernetes specifically, two big bets that don't, that kind of no one kind of saw coming, turns out they turned out pretty well. What's your reaction to that? Would you agree? And how would you talk about those two events? >> Yeah, we at VMware always considered sort of how we are going to keep innovating and the way we see the world is follow where the applications are going. It's pretty simple. Okay we saw that a few years ago where cloud and container technologies are where the applications are going. And we innovated through both our organic investments, as well as inorganic investments to bring our VMware cloud Solutions and Tanzu Solutions. And similarly, John, we're looking at now the next generation of applications where we fast forward three years down the road, we envision a great degree of innovation is going to happen in the Edge. And that's the third sort of area of innovation for us. So that public cloud or multi-cloud cloud native applications, as well as Edge applications can all be orchestrated using VMware's cross-cloud services. >> Sumit Dhawan, president of VMware thanks for coming on theCUBE we appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the event. I'm John Furrier host of theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (bright upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome everyone to theCUBE, continuing coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. We are running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events this year, two live sets, two remote studios with AWS, and its ecosystem partners. We've got over a hundred guests on the program this year, going deep as we enter the next decade of cloud innovation. We are pleased to welcome for the first time to theCUBE, John Kodumal, the CTO and co-founder of LaunchDarkly. John is here to talk about modern DevOps with feature management. John, welcome to the program. >> Thanks for having me, Lisa. >> Great to have you on the program. Let's talk a little bit about LaunchDarkly. I know it's been on theCUBE a couple of times, but it's been awhile. Give the audience an overview of LaunchDarkly, what it is that you do and what's new. >> Yeah. LaunchDarkly is the leading platform for feature management. We allow developers, product managers, anyone in the practice of building software to leverage feature flags, to deliver better software faster, a better product experiences through the use of feature flags. >> One thing that I noticed on the website is you guys have some big customer names, Square, I also saw Adidas, NBC, at least you've got some pretty big organizations that are relying on LaunchDarkly to deliver and control their software. What can you tell us about it from a customer perspective? >> Yeah. You know, it's an amazing thing. We have over 30% of the Fortune 100 using the LaunchDarkly platform for feature management. And, you know, I think it's been incredible to see how basically anyone building software can leverage feature flags to deliver better customer experiences. So, the companies you named, I mean, they're all over the map in terms of the kinds of products they deliver to consumers from Square to Adidas. I mean, those are totally different companies, but I think the thing that they all have in common is that they're increasingly becoming... They're either already a software company or they're increasingly becoming a software company and that's where we help our customers, the customers that are delivering more digital experiences to their consumers. >> That is table stake these days, you mentioned all software, all companies rather becoming software companies. If they're not, they're probably not going to be around much longer and you're right. You mentioned that's a quite a variety, NBC to Adidas as I talked about there, but in terms of what they have in common, talk to me a little bit about feature management. What is it and how can it help to bridge the divide between the developer folks, the business side of the organization? >> Absolutely. I think the fundamental thing that feature management provides, the simplest thing, that the thing that people first utilize LaunchDarkly for is to separate the processes of deploying software from releasing software. So it used to be in a pre-LaunchDarkly world, when you deploy a new piece of software, you package the artifact up, you put it out on your servers, and then your entire customer base was experiencing that new version of the software. So, if things were going wrong, if there was a bug, something wasn't working right, your blast radius was enormous. Literally, your entire customer base was impacted. And one of the things that LaunchDarkly does, the first thing that we do, the first piece of value that we provide is we help you sort of reduce that risk. So when you release a change, you can deliver that change to a much more targeted, smaller, safer cohort of users, measure the impact of what's going on. Are there any bugs? Are there any performance problems? Or is everything's smooth sailing? And if it is, then you can use LaunchDarkly to rapidly, and with a lot of visibility control, scale that release and scale that roll-out out. And that's the most fundamental value that we provide. >> Big value there. Speaking of value, let's talk about the partnership with LaunchDarkly and AWS. I know you have a lot of experience working with AWS for many years back when you were at Atlassian, but give us an overview of the partnership and that shared developer audience that you're both working with. >> Yeah. I've got a number of years of experience working with AWS. So, you mentioned my time prior to starting LaunchDarkly, I was at Atlassian for many years, and I was at Atlassian and during that time period where Atlassian was switching from traditional hosting providers to public cloud, to AWS specifically, and the capabilities that an unlocked, not only for our operations teams, but for our developers were pretty incredible. One of the things that we launched almost immediately on my team was the ability to like preview environments through AWS hosting and have that experience not happen on the local developers desktop, but rather in the cloud. And that was incredibly helpful for improving our velocity and helping us preview changes. Since starting LaunchDarkly, I mean, we've leveraged cloud and AWS in particular from the earliest days, we started the platform on AWS and we've been consuming more and more services through AWS and seeing more and more value. From a partnership perspective, we're incredibly excited because we have a massive number of customers that are either just beginning their public cloud journey or are making significant migrations or significant infrastructure changes, and they're using the LaunchDarkly platform to control the release of those changes to mitigate risk. We have customers using us to do migrations from one cloud provider to another, or go through modernization efforts and push change out safely as they migrate to a provider like AWS. >> Talk to me about some of the things that you've seen in the last year and a half, 20 months or more probably. Since the pandemic started, we've seen so much acceleration to cloud, so much cloud migration, so many companies, not only becoming software companies because they need to be competitive but understanding it's not why move to the cloud, it's when. How have you helped organizations, you know, from the NBC, the media folks to the retailers, to undergo those migrations safely but quickly in a time of such dynamics? >> Yeah, I mean, that is exactly what we saw during the pandemic, a massive amount of change, not just in the move to digital and digital experiences, but also in the need to sort of adapt to rapidly changing conditions. We had customers in, for example, food delivery that needed to rapidly change the way their software behaved in response to changes in regulations or guidelines around things like COVID. And our platform really was transformative for many of those organizations as they sort of needed to become more flexible and adapt, not only to changing rules and regulations, but changing consumer behavior and changing end-user behavior. So, it was an incredible year. It was a year that was sort of fraught with uncertainty, but it was a year where LaunchDarkly, our platform really helped many of our customers sort of navigate the waters and figure out how to get the experiences they needed to and the change they needed to in front of their customers rapidly. >> Yeah. Rapid being a keyword of the last 20 years, it feels like 20 years, doesn't it? Two years, 40 and slipped there. But talk to me a little bit about some of the other trends that you're seeing from a cloud perspective. We talked about the acceleration of migration. What are some of the other trends that your customers are facing and how is LaunchDarkly helping them to address those trends? >> Yeah. One of the trends that we're seeing is the rapidity of change is forcing companies that even companies that were really software driven at their heart to iterate more rapidly. I think there's this story around modernization that is becoming more and more common where you normally think of modernization as sort of like legacy companies, sort of non software-driven companies, having to make that shift and modernize their software stacks, but the rapid pace of change is it's shifting things into a world where even companies like my own company, like LaunchDarkly are having to modernize our stack. Our company is seven years old. And some of the things that we were doing seven years ago, they've been eclipsed in terms of like processes, tools, technologies, and use. And so we've had to go through modernization as well to keep up with the times and to give our developers the quality of tools and processes that they expect. >> I think that's an important point, John, that you bring up is that modernization isn't just for legacy applications, legacy businesses, and I'll be honest, that's how I normally think about it. I don't think of a company as young as LaunchDarkly needing to modernize, but you bring up a point that really what it is is an ongoing process for businesses in any industry. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you think about what the landscape looked like seven years ago and you fast forward to today, so many of the practices are different. So even companies like us, we're having to change. I mean, seven years ago, it wasn't really clear that Kubernetes was going to be a platform that was going to end up being the winner and sort of like the orchestration space. And so when we were starting out, none of our workloads were on Kubernetes. And even today, we're not really significantly using Kubernetes, we're sort of like legacy container-based. And that's just us, we're still a startup and we're still able to move pretty rapidly. But even for us, we're having to sort of like revisit the technologies and use and modernize our stack and kind of look around and see what's not working anymore and what we need to change. It's certainly a pace that is massively different from a company that is relying on a legacy software stack, I don't want to pretend like LaunchDarkly is, I would compare us to a company that's moving off of mainframes and COBOL or anything like that, but it's still something that we're cognizant of and something that we have to invest in. >> But you bring up a good point. And as we talk about this when we're talking with any vendor about, from the customer's perspective, it's a journey, it's the same thing that you're talking about here. It's evaluating what you have under the hood, what's working, what needs to be better as the markets change, as the dynamics change, as trends change. >> Yeah. That's exactly how I think about it and that's how a lot of these companies that are becoming more software-driven are thinking about it too. Just sort of like assessing the catalog of tools and technologies and saying what's working, what's not working. And I think one of the trends that we're seeing is that re-evaluation is happening more and more frequently and the frequency of new technologies and tools being adopted is increasing. And so, it's something that you have to spend an enormous amount of effort just to stay ahead of the game and stay ahead of what's modern. The practices that we've determined are really working for organizations. >> Right, exactly. So, I mentioned a few customers by name that work with LaunchDarkly, but can you tell me an example of one of your favorite customer stories that you think really articulate the value that LaunchDarkly is delivering to your customers across industries? >> Yeah. What comes to mind is TrueCar. TrueCar has been a LaunchDarkly customer for a long time. They're great partners of ours. We have a case study up with them. And one of the stories that they talked about was their own cloud migration. They shifted their workloads from one cloud provider to another and feature flags were instrumental in that. So, feature flags allowed them to sort of gate the flow of traffic from one cloud to another and to sort of in real-time assess whether things were working or not as they did that migration. It took a process that would have been incredibly risky and scary, and made it sort of business as usual for that organization. So, that's a company that I think of that really understands the value of LaunchDarkly and has really leveraged us to our full potential. >> Awesome. Something I want to ask you about as well, is this concept of release impact. Compare and contrast that to like the traditional optimization focused A/B Testing. What's the difference? What are the similarities? >> Yeah. You know, A/B Testing has been around for a long time and it's used in software, definitely in the past decade has grown tremendously as a piece of the software development experience. But when I think about the practice of building deep product experiences and contrast that to sort of like A/B testing on a marketing site, you know, testing out the layout of a page, we're testing out which call to action button color ends up creating more engagement. That's a very different world than I'm building a SaaS product and I'm building this a new feature within that SaaS product. Traditionally, you wouldn't really A/B test that. And part of the reason for that is it's really too expensive to build software. And it's not really a reality that most companies have where they can take a team and have them go build a feature for multiple weeks or months, pry it out in production and then say, "You know what, that didn't work. That million dollar expense that we just made. We're just going to roll that back and not use it." So, that's sort of the way I think about the difference between a traditional optimization focused A/B Testing, where it's sort of like smaller bets designed to move the needle on a metric where if it doesn't work, you can turn it off versus these deep product experiences where what you're more interested in is being more quantitative about the impact of that release, but you're not necessarily interested in sort of like A/B testing focused optimization, picking a winner in a short period of time. One of the things that we've realized at LaunchDarkly is those are two separate tasks, they're two separate processes, and they require different analysis and different tools under the hood. And so, we're really excited at LaunchDarkly to be innovating on sort of both fronts, not only just providing a platform for optimization focused A/B Testing, but providing a platform where product managers can be more quantitative about the capabilities that they're building and not thinking about it in terms of optimization, but just in terms of measuring the impact of the work that they're shipping to customers. >> The impact, and of course, it's all outcomes focus as we talk about with customers and vendors and at any industry. Last question, John, for you as we're coming up on re:Invent in-person, what are some of the things that attendees can learn and see at the LaunchDarkly booth? >> Yeah. You're going to learn a lot about, if you visit our booth, you're going to learn a lot about sort of like the direction that we're taking, which is I think the exciting thing about LaunchDarkly as a platform is we really provide two capabilities. For engineering teams, we help you mitigate risks. We help you move more efficiently. That gives you more at bats as a team. It lets you ship more product and see whether it's working. LaunchDarkly also though provide something on the flip side of that, which is the ability for product managers to measure whether the changes that they're making are the right changes for their customers. And when you combine those two things in one platform, you get the ability for the engineering team to have more at bats, to create more change in production and see whether it's working. And then you get product managers the ability to measure the impact on their customers. And you combine that together, and at the end of the day, what LaunchDarkly provides is the ability for you as an organization to deliver business value better, more quickly through the R&D investments that you're making, the software that you're producing. >> And that's critical. I love that baseball analogy, more at bats. Fantastic, John, thank you for joining me talking to the audience about LaunchDarkly, what you're doing, the trends that you're helping customers address, the partnership with AWS, and what folks can learn when they visit the LaunchDarkly booth at re:Invent. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. I really enjoyed our conversation. >> Me too, for John Kodumal, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re-Invent 2021. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to Las Vegas Lisa Martin live here with David Nicholson. We're at AWS reinvent 2021, this an outstanding event. There's a lot of people here, tens of thousands. And this is probably one of the most important and largest hybrid tech events that we're doing this year with AWS and its massive ecosystem of partners. We're going to be covering this two live sets, two remote studios, over 100 guests on the CUBE at this re-invent and David and I are pleased to welcome Giorgio Vanzini next the vice president and global head of partners and alliances at DXC, Georgia Welcome to the program. >> Thank you for having me. >> Talk to us about what's going on at DXC, what are you in AWS doing together with what's the scoop? >> Yes Well, some exciting things are happening between AWS and DXC, which is we're really focusing on our customers that we have especially in the banking and capital markets, but also automotive. And then also we were a launch partner today with the AWS mainframe modernization right, and so we're focusing on mainframes as well. So exciting spaces for us to go collaborate and work with AWS, for our customers. >> Talk to me about some of the things you know the last 22 months have been quite challenging, quite dynamic and we've seen such a massive acceleration to the cloud. What have you seen from your perspective? Are you seeing customers in every industry that have really figured we've got to do this now because if we don't, we're going to be out of business? >> Yes, you're absolutely correct. We've seen a dramatic acceleration of people wanting or customers wanting to move to the cloud public and private, and an acceleration of assistance that they were requesting from a global systems integrator. So what we've seen is you know, part of our clouds ride strategy that we have, really understanding what does the customer need from a strategy perspective, from a business value perspective and the technology perspective, and AWS has been a great partner with us to actually accommodate all of these kinds of things and the announcements that you had today, you know, just substantiate kind of that fact as well. >> Can you double click on the Cloud Right approach, talk to us about what that is, why it's important and what are some of the outcomes that it's helping customers to generate? >> Absolutely love to Cloud Right is really DXC's strategy to take the customers on the journey from the mainframe to the cloud, and to customize this because every customer is different. They have different requirements, different environments, different business strategies. So therefore the Cloud Right approach is really customizing it for the customer. What is the right business strategy? What is the right technology strategy? And then migrating them over into the cloud as well. Keeping in mind that again, customers are specific, industries are specific. You know, data requirements are different analytics are different, you know, government requirements are different. So you need to those in mind when you transition customers over into the cloud space. >> Right, from a data residency, data sovereignty and all of the different rules and regulations that are popping up that are kind of similar to GDPR for example, that's a big challenge, but one of the things too that's happening Giorgio is that every company to be competitive these days has to become a data company, right? There's no choice, you've got to be data-driven, you've got to have a data strategy at the core of the business, otherwise there's a competitor in the rear view mirror, who's ready to take your place. >> That is absolutely correct, and so that's part of our Cloud Right strategy is understanding what are the business requirements from the customer? Understanding their competitive edge and migrating them over. Because in many instances, to your point, they have huge reams of data, petabytes of information of data, but really making sense of it, so running the analytics on it and having the business insights. So helping the customers understand that, but then also understanding of like, what are the key business requirements that they have? Which applications to migrate and which not to migrate? >> So I'm curious, you mentioned that you're a launch partner for mainframe modernization. That's sort of one slice of and very important slice of some organization's business and migration strategy to cloud. I'm curious what the DXC blend is between standardized offerings and bespoke services and how you manage that? Do you have a thought about that? Wouldn't it be great to have small, medium and large and have people click on it? >> Yes here's a T-shirt for you, which size are you? Now I'm actually glad you asked me that question because that's exactly going to the core of the Cloud Right strategy, and the Cloud Right really means that it's like, which T-shirt size is correct for you? Right. This is the question that we just addressed which is it has to be bespoke because one size does not fit all. And so understanding the customer requirements of do we need to move the data to the cloud? Or do we move to need a subset to the cloud? Do we need to move part of the business applications and which ones and in which order? Right? And so that's why I think we bring something to the table in the AWS mainframe modernization, which is unique because we have an end to end kind of approach from a planning to implementation, to execution and running as well. So I think DEX is uniquely positioned with our Cloud Right strategy. >> One of the things AWS Giorgio talks about is not being custom but being purpose-built. Talk to me about kind of compare contrast that with bespoke solutions, industry specific, obviously customers have specificities. Do you see a difference there between purpose-built under bespoke or are they aligned from your perspective? >> Yes, I do agree that a to technology layers are definitely common layers, horizontal layers, right Where I think you have bespoken limitations on the business strategy and the business rules. And so you have to understand what business is the customer really in and how to implement the business rules into the technology stack as well, and bringing it all together. So while the technology I think goes horizontal to your point right, you know, compute and storage is the same. Wherever you go the bits are the same, however how they're utilized and how you use them for your customers and your interaction is completely different from customer to customer and industry to industry, as you guys know as well. >> You know, it can be, it can be really disheartening working in this space when you think of 475 different kinds of instances and how important it is to get that right for a customer and how much they don't care. Ultimately they don't want to hear about it, they don't want to know, but they want you to get it right, so that it doesn't matter. So it's this irony of all of the work that people have to do like at DXC to make those details not matter. Any thoughts on that? Do you, are you a dejected because of that at all? >> Well, that is part of the value that we bring, right? >> David: Sure. >> To your point, absolutely the customer doesn't care in quotes, right? Just make it work for us and run it smoothly. On the other hand, we're on the hook to make sure that all the different partners that we have, that we integrate including AWS, right. Run smoothly and coherent and are up, you know, 99.999% of the time obviously right. And so the customers do care about our you know, interaction with them as well while AWS is always there. >> One of the things that we talked about a little bit ago is every industry had to pivot right. Dramatically the last 22 months or so. And we've seen every industry cloud is no longer a nice to have We've got to be able to get there, but you mentioned a focus in banking, and I think automotive, I'd love to get your perspectives on what some of the things are the opportunities that DXC sees in those particular industries, as opportunities to modernize. >> Yes, we latched on to banking and automotive because those are ripe for transition and the customers are willing to take the steps there as well. It doesn't mean that other industries are not relevant like, you know, consumer or retail or you know, technology and, and manufacturing. However, especially in automotive I think we have a unique positioning where we have the majority of the OAMs car manufacturers worldwide as customers, and when you think about AWS, you think about the utilization of the information that comes back from telematics information and customization, right. Petabytes of information that comes back from every device, which is a car and what kind of service you can provide there. So it's an industry you know, we talked about Tesla early on as well, right It's an industry that ripe for software and software updates. very similar you see a lot of things happening in the banking capital market space, where they're moving you know their customer base into new spaces as well. Just think about all the NFTs, those are happening, all the FinTech that's happening, right. So the, the banking capital markets companies have to, you know, have an evolution going on right, and assisting them in this evolution is as part of our strategy. >> So you're responsible for global partnerships and alliances DXC would be considered a large global systems integrator. The world is obviously moving in the direction of cloud. We've got the three big players AWS, and the other two I can't think of their names while I'm sitting here in Vegas right now, how do you balance what you do with those, with a variety of providers, for customers, and are you going to market primarily as DXC with the DXC relationship with the customer? Or in support of those cloud vendors that have essentially technology that if left unimplemented is essentially worthless, right I mean you, you bridge the divide between the technology and the true value of the technology, but are you the primary seat holder at the customer table, or is AWS the primary seat holder? Or is it a little of both? Long-winded question I apologize but I think you understand what I'm saying. It's an interesting world that we live in now. >> It definitely is, and if I wouldn't know you better I would say it's a trick question, but in all seriousness, we really are customer driven just like AWS as well right so, we really are trying to do the right thing for the customer. Hence our Cloud Right strategy, where we don't have a cookie cutter approach or saying just go do the following five things and you're going to be fine. We really want to look at the customer and say, what is important to you? What is the timeframe you're looking at? What is the strategic imperative that you have? What data do you have to move? You know, what system do you have to leave behind? And then do the right thing for the customer literally right. And so in this instance, absolutely you know, in my role AWS plays a huge role as you know is one of our core hyper scaler partners, a very good partner, we love AWS. And so making sure that they're always going to be there as part of that infrastructure is part of our strategy. >> You mentioned, oh sorry Dave >> No, I was just saying it makes sense. >> It does make sense in terms of being customer first, we talk with AWS, you can't kind of have an interview with, with one of their folks without talking about that. We work backwards from the customer first. This customer obsession, it sounds like from a cultural perspective, there's pretty strong alignment there with DXC. >> Exactly right, so I think from that perspective we share the same DNA where we look first to the customer and then say okay, how do we deduct what is right for the customer and implement it that way right, Because in many instances as you know, you mentioned the, the two other hyper scaler that we don't talk about, customers usually don't have a single source kind of approach, right They usually have a dual approach. And so while we have to work with that, there's preferred vendors that we engage with, right. And so clearly AWS is one of our preferred vendors that we engage with. >> Can you share an example? I'd love to know a customer that's taken the Cloud Right approach applied really kind of in a textbook way that you think really shows the value of DXC. Any customers, but even by industry if you don't want to name them, come to mind that really show the value of that approach. >> Yeah, So we, we just concluded a major migration from one of our leading insurance companies, a global big company that you know is similar with my birthplace. But what we really did is a Cloud Right approach of migrating them from their legacy mainframe and virtualized systems that they had, to a cloud approach. And in the process of doing this you know, we reduced their overall operating expenses, their cap X expenses obviously but also reduced their overall budget about 30% reduction by moving them to the cloud. Again during the Cloud Right approach of understanding what exactly to move in, which timeframe and what to leave behind right, Because in many instances, customers don't have an exit strategy. They rush to the cloud, but then leave their you know old legacy behind and like oh, what are you going to do with this? And so you need to have a comprehensive end to end system strategy of like, what do you want to leave behind? When do you want to sunset it? And when do you want to migrate certain things over as well? >> That's got to be quite challenging for I would assume a legacy historied insurance company been around for a long time, lots of data, but culturally very different than the cloud mindset. >> You bring up one of those soft skills, right. Which is the cultural aspect of talking with the customers of how do we migrate you? It's not just, and that's why I said it's not just a business decision or a technology decision. In many instances, you affect people's life as well. When you think about old systems administrators that were working on mainframes. Now if you move everything to the clouds, they become obsolete. So rescaling the workforce and having a comprehensive plan is part of the soft skills right, Where you think more comprehensive about the customer, it's not just technology it's really is the full experience right At 360 what happens to the people? How do we migrate the people? But also setting expectations with top management, for example right of saying, how is this going to change our business? What new opportunities are going to be there? So those are all the soft kind of skills as well. >> One of the things that struck me this morning during the AWS keynote is just all of the innovation that that goes on. But AWS really is a flywheel of the customer and all the opportunities that their customers create for AWS, and the opportunities then that AWS technologies create for the customers across industries I just thought that I just kind of really felt that flywheel this morning when Adam was talking about all of the things that they're revealing, you must feel the same as a partner. >> I do, and I I'm a tech geek, so I'm totally excited about this, and it you know it feeds my soul because I can remember when, you know, when we first had analytics with you know Redshift rights and then customers are coming back and going like, well could we do something that is real time? Because we have requirements in this, and then CAFCA came out right, as a new service and I'm like okay, great right, and so we're really there to embrace you know, every new service that comes out from AWS. Which is fantastic, right I mean the speed and agility that comes out with AWS and we totally embraced that for our customers. >> Awesome, Georgia thank you for joining David and me today talking about what's going on with DXC, your partnership with AWS, Cloud Right, and how you're helping customers get Cloud Right. We appreciate your insights and your time. >> Thank you, I appreciate it too, thank you. >> All right. For David Nicholson, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube, the leader in global alive tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(Music) >> Welcome to the AWS executive summit presented by Accenture at AWS reinvent 2021. I'm Lisa Martin, and I've got two Cube alum here with me, please welcome Merim Becirovic, Managing Director of Global IT Enterprise Architecture at Accenture and Chris Wegmann, Accenture, AWS Business Group technology and practices, Senior Managing Director, gentlemen, welcome back to the program. >> Thank you, Lisa, great to be back. >> Thank you, Lisa. Great to be here. >> It is nice to be back in a way right here we are at this hybrid event, but we want to talk about what Accenture is doing with its, with AWS to serving its clients. And then we're going to get into your own internal use case, drinking your own champagne. Chris go ahead and start with you, talk to us about what Accenture is doing with AWS to serve its clients. >> Yeah, Lisa, it's exciting, as you said to be back in this hybrid event and you know, for me, this will be my 10th re-invent and for Accenture we're in year 14 of our partnership with AWS and actually year six of our partnership called Accenture AWS business group. And you know, the focus over the last year has been helping our clients come out of the pandemic stronger than, than where they started. Right? And a lot of that has been around focusing our customers, getting past cloud migration, past cloud modernization, and getting further into what we now call the cloud continuum, starting to truly leverage all the AWS assets and capabilities and services to, to truly speed their transformation. You know, we work with a lot of our customers who are needing to transform even faster today than they were before the pandemic. And, you know, we're focused on helping those customers do that with AWS services. >> So Merim, let's bring you into the conversation. Now Accenture's internal IT organization has been leveraging AWS and public cloud for a while. Talk to me about that you completed the journey a couple of years ago, 95% in the cloud. Talk to me about what you're doing there. >> Sure. Lisa, so our, our journey into the public cloud is complete. As you said, we put a bow on that project a couple of years ago. We started in 2015 and we went all in on public cloud. So we, the number 95%, 95% represents a true measure of everything it takes to run Accenture. Everything addressable is in the public cloud today. So the 95% just represents a small component of things that have to live outside of the cloud. But other than that, our journey to the cloud is complete, and we are very happy being in the cloud because it has opened tremendous doors for us as a business. I'm sure we'll talk about here as we go, but it's fundamentally a different place we live in today and where we were before we were in the cloud. >> Merim, you said something really powerful there a second ago. The Accenture's journey to the cloud is complete. I don't think I'd ever heard anybody say that. Talk to me about the impact, especially during the last 18 months that that cloud journey is delivered. >> I mean, one of the things I am extremely proud of for our collective global teams around the world, when the, obviously the, you know, when COVID hit and the pandemic engulf the world, the only difference for us was that people just did not come into an office to work. Our capabilities in the cloud, our capabilities of having everything in the cloud really made it that much easier for our people to go to work. We weren't fighting over resources around infrastructure. People could just work from home directly. So I'm extremely proud of the collective global team that made all of that happen as part of that execution of all those things. So it was really a very proud moment, I would say for all of us running IT. >> As well, it should be. Chris, talk about that from your perspective of facilitating that massive pivot 18, 19 months ago, and what your group was responsible for doing to enable this cloud journey to be complete. >> Yeah. I always laughed at, you know, Merim and our internal CIO organizations, we call it was our first customer, right. You know, way back when I started working in this partnership, you know, we were already starting to leverage AWS, S3 and EC2, and that insight Accenture, and we took a lot of those best practices and started helping, our clients leverages best practices. So, you know, from an Accenture, we always kind of harvest from internally what we're doing, but, you know, over the last several years, we really are our focused with the CIO organization, Merim's organization has been, you know, expanding the usage of non, you know, I, as I call Maya services, right? So past EC2, you know, past S3. Obviously there's always storage. There's always compute, but you know, truly doing and building serverless applications, truly using, you know, services, fully managed services. So, you know, the CIO organization doesn't have to spend their time doing that. And, for our customers, that's while it's, they're still early on in a lot of their journeys, that's a novel idea is a truly try to sunset IS services or EC2 and things like that, you know, and whether that's, you know, fix some containerization or things like that, I think the other big part is, is the maturing security footprint, right? Obviously, as you use one or more of these AWS services, your security posture, your presence, how you think about security. We created an asset called secure cloud foundation, leveraging many of the AWS services in the security space that have come out like guard duty and others really to help make that security foundation stronger, make it easier for our customers, including CIO to leverage those services and truly enable that move further up the cloud or further down the continuum as we call it. >> Merim, I want to get your thoughts on security from in a, because we have seen such a dramatic change in the threat landscape in the last 18, 19 months. We've seen a huge spike in ransomware. It's getting much more personal. It's now a household word. We've got the executive order. We had this rapid pivot to and hundreds of thousands of Accenture employees working from home. Talk to me about, you feel very confident in the cloud during that you didn't word where's your competence from a security perspective. >> As you said, security is the fastest growth in our business. Collectively, like you said, the bad guys don't sleep. We don't sleep either when it comes to security. One of the things that we're constantly thinking about is how do we turn on a lot of our capabilities as an example. So even, I would say at an enterprise level, it's different when you're running a big multinational corporation, 650,000 people like we do. We can't just turn everything on and hope for the best. We are very scripted in terms of how we think about those services, how we think about the processes, how we work with our CSO organization, so that we're very meticulous and very thorough in terms of what services we turn on, how we turn them on, when we turn them on? How long we make them available, because this is, this is the new world, right? We have extended our corporate structure out into the cloud. That means we have to think of different ways for how we want to consume those capabilities and services. So like Chris said, you know, the, the journey to the cloud for us is complete. A lot of it was I, as I would tell you, a lot of it was lift and shift for less. And we can talk about that if we get time, but it was more about getting into the cloud and taking advantage of the cloud where we are today, because now that we're there, we get to take advantage of all those capabilities that are there. And I would say the best part of being with on, in, in the cloud is also having the, the providers like AWS they are with us, helping us with that security posture. So it's not just us doing this by ourselves. >> So Chris, I want to talk about that Merim just said, this was mostly lift and shift. Talk to us about that. Cause when we talk to organizations in every industry, the cloud transition, the cloud journey is extremely challenging. It's complex. How did you do this? How did you facilitate this and in a relatively short time period, Chris? >> Yeah. And, and you're right. Everyone has conversations I have with my clients. You know, there's a huge debate whether to lift and shift or modernize or build new build cloud native, right? So, you know, in Accenture's situation, you know, very early on, it was identified that we can, we can do a large savings by doing a lift and shift migration, right. We were not a big data center owner, right. That wasn't, we're not a big capital intense organization. So for us, that, that journey we had, you know, colos and that stuff coming up for renewal. And we knew that we could, you know, get some early savings there and really, you know, reduce our footprint and take that investment and then invest it into, you know, true modernization. So Merim and his organization worked very closely to build the factory, to do the migrations, get that done in a very short amount of time and then turn their attention on truly refactoring rebuilding the applications. I'm super proud of the number of applications that we've rebuilt. I'm super proud of the number of applications that, that now are cloud native. And we live in these applications every day. You know, they they're everything from our performance to how we do our payroll and do our time charging and things like that. But which, you know, it was a big reason why, you know, we can access our systems remotely and at home versus going into different systems to get to that stuff. So, you know, it was very much heavily lift and shift early, then really focusing on modernization. And as Merim said, getting, you know, now it's about living there and continuing, continuing to modernize, continuing to accelerate what we're doing in the cloud. >> Yeah. Lisa, its little bit like, so our journey lift and shift was a core component of it. But the minute we decided to go to the cloud, one of the things, the first things we did, as I said, no more vans. So any new capability that we were going to build, we were going to build a cloud native micro-services based, and that's been our standard for the last 3 or 4 years ago. So any new capability that comes along today that we must do custom, we build a cloud native microservices because one of the other things that I've got on my plate is I'm trying to reduce our overall technical debt. So all of these IS platforms, I still have to maintain them, patch them, support them, upgrade them. And I would rather be much more efficient at doing those things as, as I can and reinvest money into refactoring and modernizing the rest of the application, plead through containers through microservices, et cetera, which then gives me the agility right back to actually go even faster, to enable more services for the business. >> Speed is something that we've seen become even more critical in the last 18, 19 months where we needed to everybody pivot businesses multiple times over and over. But part of the challenge there Merim, I want to get your thoughts on this is they are something cultural shift. Talk to me about, you've been at Accenture for a long time. Talk to me about the cultural shift needed to facilitate this massive transformation to cloud and how Chris's team was a facilitator of that. >> So, you know, one of the things for us, I have probably in the last five years spoken to a thousand of our clients, around our cloud journey and this culture conversation always comes up and I will say, you know, the biggest thing for us was interesting. We had those same fears. We had some same in when we first talked about going to the cloud, you know, six years ago, it was very, not everything was there, that's there today. So the teams were extremely nervous and they were confident that we could never be as, as good in the cloud as we were on, on site. Yet here we are six years later and we're constantly finding ways to add value and take, bring value back. And though, it's so same teams. And one of the things is just, we gave them the challenge to say, Hey, this is the future. We're telling our clients, this is where we're going. We have an opportunity here to do something different and they took it and the team really took it on. And they said, okay, let's do it. And they act, and we looked at how we run into cloud the many different ways, whether we're using reserved instances, whether we're using containers, whether we're using, you know, different computer capabilities, we went through all of it and we're running such a highly efficient machine right now that it's like, we're still able to continue to eat out savings even five years after the program. Even two years after the program is complete, we're still able to get savings. >> That's outstanding. That's ROI that every business and every industry hopes to be able to achieve from this. I want to switch gears a little bit now because this is actually pretty cool. Accenture is really focused also on sustainability. You guys have signed onto the Amazon climate pledge, which if you don't know what the Amazon climate pledge, and this is back in 2019, Amazon, co-founded this a commitment to be net zero carbon across businesses by 2040, which is actually 10 years ahead of the Paris agreement. You're in talk to us about that. And from Accenture's perspective, why it was important to sign on to that. >> So on a, on a personal level, I love obviously sustainability as a whole, that I think about the world park for my children that are growing up. So it's very important to me on a personal level as well. But I would say at a company level, what I love about the cloud is I am there right there with them as they make investments. All of our enterprise capabilities are there. We are able to very quickly shift and use those capabilities. So as Amazon, for example, in this scenario creates new capabilities, new compute offerings, new, new storage offerings, whatever it may be. They're doing it with a sustainability lens and me by being in the cloud already, I can then turn to start using those things too. So as much as I can, on that perspective, I'm in a great place with, as Amazon puts these sustainability capabilities out there, I'm right there consuming and making them more efficient. And then the other one is obviously as much of our workloads, as we can get to a cloud native perspective, microservices perspective, then we keep reducing that compute consumption and everything else that goes along with it. And lastly, I would say, you know, the, the other thing is we're very aggressive in managing all of our systems in terms of uptime. So for example, in a data center, most, most organizations don't think about turning off their development environments and everything else. But for us, we're very rigid in this process. And we have a, we have a target of all of our development environments being down 55% of the time. And primarily that's also a sustainability play in addition to a financial savings plan. >> Awesome. Great stuff, Chris, last question for you, as we wrap up here, what are some of the things that you were excited about that's coming in cloud in the next few years? Obviously here we are at, re-invent going to be hearing a lot of news, a lot of announcements about cloud in the coming days. What excites you most, Chris? >> Yeah. You know, obviously the machine learning and AI stuff is, is always the most exciting things right now in cloud. And, you know, we've put a lot of those to use here inside of Accenture as well. And, and our, you know, in our synopsis platform, which we use with our customers to run in a more intelligent operations, we use that internally as well. But you know, one of the things that excites me the most is the continued innovation at the core. Right. And you know, whether that be, you know, chip sets, you know, Merim talked a little bit about, you know, improvement and performance improvement and power consumption, you know, grabbing time, those types of stuff that, that excites me every year, I look forward to seeing what, what they come out with and, and then how we're going to put that to use. >> Well, I look forward to talking to you guys next year, you've done such a tremendous job. You should be proud of the massive transformation that you've done. I imagine this is, would be a great case study. If it's not already written up, it should be. It's really impressive. Merim and Chris, thank you for joining me at the summit. Talking to me about what's going on with Accenture and AWS and some of the things that you are looking forward to, we appreciate your insights and your time. >> Thanks, Lisa. >> Thanks, Lisa. >> You're welcome for my guests. I'm Lisa Martin. This is the AWS executive summit presented by Accenture at AWS reinvent 2021. (Music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS Reinvent 2021 Executive Summit. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We've got a great segment here on the modernization, where we're ringing in the success with Amazon Web Services and Vodafone Digital in the UK. An example of modern engineering, examples using Amazon, the cloud. Looking at where cloud-native is actually changing the game. We got two great guests, Ben Connolly, Head of Digital Engineering at Vodafone UK, and Maynard Williams, Managing Director of Accenture. Gentlemen, thank you for coming on theCUBE and sharing the story. >> Thanks John, appreciate the invite. >> So I got to ask you guys, one of the main themes that we've been covering all year, and even pre-pandemic, we saw the cloud-native wave coming pretty hard. Containers, great for modernization, sets the table. You seeing things like Kubernetes, and now Serverless changing the game on all aspects of how modernization is happening. And everyone's talking about application modernization, shift left, all great for business, but you have to kind of take care of things under the covers a little bit. The infrastructure, making sure the engineering teams are all set. So this has been a top topic. This is kind of what you guys are doing. Can you guys explain to me the needs that Vodafone has that brought about this transformation? >> Yeah, sure. So we we've been on this transformation program for years, but you're absolutely right. The pandemic has been a real catalyst for all kinds of organizations like ours around the world. So we were really driving digital first agenda for quite a long time. And that that came as you just said John, it really did start with the cloud hosted and then moving and realizing the difference between that and become native to the cloud and really leveraging the services like AWS in order to really drive pace and the outcomes that we needed for the business. We've seen a huge change purely over the last 18 months really. Our daily traffic these days is as it was on our highest ever like an iPhone launch day, for example, before the pandemic is daily traffic these days. And so that scalability and flexibility and that leveraging those services has been absolutely fundamental to supporting the changing needs and expectations of our customers. >> You know, back in the old days, Maynard oh yeah, Black Friday surge, you need the cloud to scale up and be flexible, agile, elastic. The scale is definitely now table stakes. And if you're not dealing with scale and some sort of either SRE fashion or whatever, you're really going to be behind the curve. But the next level that's being discussed is how do you leverage the scale for not just customer experience and business value but we're talking about system architecture, kind of thinking there's going to, this is our system design is now a big part of it. Can you talk about how this kind of threads together? Because we always talk about consumer experience, customer experience CX, but now there's a new systems mindset out there. Can you kind of share your vision on that. >> Yeah, I think the thing that stands out for me is if I look at digital, we've designed it to a point where the scale is just as you say, it's the table stakes. And iPhone launch was something that two years ago needed to be planned and thought about. And it's now absolutely routine. We think about the business side of it but a big increase in scale really is seamless. But if I look at the full stack, we're still connected into some of the older backend systems where we're in production they're on prime actually tests is on AWS now, which is a big step forward, but when you've got to manage scaling in a way that translates from backend systems that are on-premises or on-prem, and therefore we can't elastically scale through to the front tab where we have to be able to scale up very seamlessly and balancing that across with an architecture that supports that level of scale and makes it so seamless on something like, as you say, iPhone launches or Black Friday or any product coming out is actually key to the way we've architected that. >> So you saying that essentially AWS combined with Vodafone worked on this solution that was more of a cloud native solutions. Is that the innovation? Can you just summarize and unpack a little bit, what is the innovation? What problems did you solve together with Accenture and Vodafone? What was the core challenge? >> Yes well, I think that the core is actually, how do you get to the point where the scaling is seamless, where you can move from being on the cloud to cloud native, as Ben just touched on, when at the same time you're actually connected into an enterprise state where the production systems are all on-prem and don't have that ability to scale in the same fashion. So you can't, for example, push you to load into an on-prem backend system and simply expected to scale in the same fashion. So between our three organizations, architecting something that is robust scales, reusable and takes away a load of pieces that actually were quite complex two years ago and turns them into just routine has been a big step forward. >> And I want to get your reaction to this because you're on the front line saying, hey, be more agile, the boss that says, be agile, do different left, take that hill. It's easier said than done. Talk about what goes on when you have to implement and the stakes involved. Again, there's always the old way, new way. Could you just kind of give some color on what's going on? What's your perspective? >> Sure, and Maynard just said that the real benefits and the story behind this was the ability to launch an iPhone For example, as a non event for Vodafone previously was weeks and months of preparation and design and testing and confidence building. And now it really is, it just happens. And we watched things scale and then down again gracefully and really do celebrate the level up if you like, the leveling up of us as an organization, allowing our commercial colleagues to launch propositions or to launch campaigns without needing us to be involved anymore, because they're confident, we're all confident that things will flex like that. But you're absolutely right that the changes and the demands of us as a team, but also the expectations of our stakeholders have been changing for quite a long time now. And we're really excited now to be able to meet them by leveraging the services that we're discussing it. >> Yeah, so the guy said launched the iPhone, no big deal routine, hit the pub, everyone's happy. Having a good day. Let's get into the solution, how it works. Talk about what's going on under the covers. How does this all work? Can you take us through what's the state of the art of the of the solution? >> Sure. Well as you mentioned earlier, we were very much inclined to Serverless these days. So we rolled out fire gate a few, it started about 18 months ago and that really has freed us up into all kinds of scalability measures but also really about reusing and applying this across much more than just the engineering or the digital part of Vodafone where we began. So that's been a really big part of our agenda and that's informed all kinds of things. The ability to scale and flex like that and the architecture beneath us and the containerization and orchestration that goes along with that has really enabled us to flex that ability to reuse it across other areas. And because of that now it's driven our hiring policy, our tooling and technical, our procedural approaches, and it all now leverages that ability to move a pace and to be able to scale, not just in infrastructure or ability to serve customers, but in ability to deliver for the business commercially as well. And this is all now informed on our direction I think, as an organization. >> It's interesting, you mentioned you far gate then a trigger of events happens. People get excited, opens up new doors of opportunities, there's a chain reaction from that. Talk about the impact to the staff in the operations because you almost it's motivating. At some level, you got new things happening but you're actually making things go better and faster, cheaper. >> Yeah, well, the impact is one because we're on a journey at Vodafone of this transformation really becoming a technology business first and foremost, rather than a telco classically like our competitors. We're able to really drive cultural change as well. So the impact on our people is a really, it's been a particularly engaging one, we've also been part of a real recruitment drive. We've just announced 7,000 new roles joining our team across Europe. And these are engineering roles driving more of the same behaviors and principles of a modern software engineering business like ours. And that really is fueled by our ability to experiment and try but become cloud native and employ these services in the way that they're designed to be. >> Maynard, I'd like to get your take on this and shift to a topic around what this all means. You zoom out and you say, okay, with the pandemic, it's become a mobile virtual hybrid now world around work play, all those lines are kind of blurring. It's not as clean as it used to be. Oh, the network segmented over here, this is over here, these legacy systems were built around the notion of things were nicely segmented. Now you have this whole kind of mashup if you will, of how you just want to work, right? There's mobilization is a huge thing. So access, identity, these are things that we're all kind of set up nicely before the pandemic, or at least not as a stable maybe not scalable. But what's your take on this? What's the big picture? What's all happening? >> I think, I mean, the pandemic has accelerated a set of changes that were already happening anyway. And I'd say the other part of this is under the covers. A lot of the work has been to create the microservices that stitch together to produce those journeys that run in the containers and so that opens up an Omni-channel feature that starts to move away from saying actually, businesses are organized around the environment in which they're serving. Is it a retail store? Is it online, additional and so on? And actually into much more of a space where you're building the best journeys and those journeys can and are served through digital or through a call center or through a store and so on. And that makes a huge difference because the focus on improving the customer's experience has been enormous. And I think that's one of the other parts that come out of the whole cloud native setup and the ability to experiment has been intuitively and endlessly improving the experience for the customer. And that's a massive step forward. So we can talk about the fact that we deploy a huge number of times more frequently than we did even a year ago or that our quality is improved by a massive percentage and so on. And I think the thing that's really interesting is the improvement in the experience and the endless improvement and iteration of that because we can make lots and lots of small changes and do every day. That's a big step forward. >> You know, what's interesting, Ben and let's get your reaction on this and if you don't mind to just add a little color to this. This is just another example of reports that we've been talking with folks on where it's not about just re-platforming to the cloud. It's refactoring the business with the engineering, the modernization. And so there's two things that go on. One, you see the efficiencies, new doors open up, new things are happening, people are getting excited, get some good morale boost, things are becoming clear, but then this actually new business value being created or new propositions, engineering propositions. Can you share from a digital standpoint because this seems to be the new role of the digital person, whether it's engineering or on the business side, make things run faster, cheaper and better and then create new opportunities, new propositions. What's your reaction? >> Yeah, it's fundamentally around pace of delivery. Being able to, as Maynard says, moving from a world two or three years ago where we were deploying once every two or three months. This is a website once every two or three months, it's where we were. And so now it's happening all the time every day. It's a skill that we've given us as an organization that we couldn't have leveraged before. And what we're able to do with that now is experiment our way and iterate our way to new value streams, as you say, but also to trial and error what we already know or expect to be true with our customers much, much more easily and much, much more frequently. Very little a barrier to production or friction between us and the customer these days and the almost instant response and feedback we get from customers, we learn constantly because of that and it's become much less of a stab in the dark with large business cases where they work well, they work to now much more experimental initiative. That way both to the propositions we know about but also to the experiments and unknowns in our future that also now unlocked for us. >> That's a great point you mentioned about the whole timing of, the old way, months, weeks, just for website stuff. Maynard, if you guys can share this new world order is actually pretty exciting but also daunting if you're not like in the water, so to speak. So some people are actually putting their toe in the water, they're experimenting but it's a game changer. I mean, a significant step up of value. What's your advice about solutions? And they're not easy. I mean, you just got to get your hands around Accenture. You guys have been doing a lot more of these projects and seeing more and more of these kinds of partnerships and the value is there. Can you guys share your opinion and advice to folks out there watching saying, how do I do this and is it going to be worth it? Is that bridge to the future there? >> I mean, I think there's a mechanical piece. How do I enable this? We could talk about DevOps and moving to cloud native and actually some of the process side of as an organization, how do I get really comfortable with deploying very frequently and it being low risk and routine and so on. The other part for me, which we sort of haven't touched on is as much as we talk about experimentation, it's about the data and the analytics and the knowledge that we create out of that. So the small changes we're making are highly scientific. And when we think about actually understanding how we're optimizing experiences, that's all about a whole set of data points that underpin it. And so I'd say two parts. It's the journey we've been on here is about enablement. It's about moving the architecture. It's about moving the ways of working so that a lot of things that were hard or required thinking about two years ago on that are routine but the other part of it is understanding the data and having the analytics capability and being able to make a very scientific experiment where you can see the result in the day to day. >> Ben, what's your reaction advice to folks watching as they modernize exciting, challenging. It's a lot of hard work, but what is its the end game? >> All of those things, yes. I'd say it's more than anything, it's a necessity these days we have to embark on this journey and it is daunting. And of course, a lot of large organizations like ours, we were successful for doing things in a particular way and built up a lot of protection mechanisms for making sure we protect that. And so to come at it from a new angle is obviously daunting. And it's very challenging as well. There is an immune system in all of our organizations it is real and we will all deal with it. But the success behind, I think the real reasons behind a lot of our success has been by being able to quickly prove value, to quickly prove that outcomes are deliverable and achievable. And then to build on those and iterate on it. And as I said, it's about being able to move at pace. For us in Vodafone it's about leveraging our scale. We're a huge organization, and we're now coming together as one to really make sure that we do lean on that scale more than we have them. We're really about iterating, as I said and finding things that work, keep doing it, finding things that hold you back and get rid of them as quickly as you can is what I would say for us. >> It's interesting you mentioned the scale. The thing about the cloud is when I hear the common pattern is it takes advantage of the strengths of your environment. So every environment's a bit different but you guys have the scale. I have to ask you while you're here. What are some of the anecdotal comments that kind of you hear from folks that make you happy, what about the results? I think saying, hey man, I'm not even seeing this anymore or wow this is faster. What's some of the sound bites that you guys take as proof points of the success of this project. >> Yeah, I'd say it's mainly there's two things I would say, the ability to rely less on IT delivery if you like. So empowering our commercial business to make changes for themselves in a safe and secure manner. So providing these self-service capabilities, we've started to see a real pace about our commercial business, as well as our technology business. But also the time it takes to get things out is probably one of the biggest, really tangible results and outcomes for us at the moment. Just the sheer amount of things we can release to production in sorts of short space of time really does bring to life our ability to now trial and error, to AB test Canary deploy, things like that is really, it's been a real superpower for our transformation. >> Yeah, kind of kidding about having time to go to the pub but in reality, it's free time freeing up people from doing those tasks that were slower and shifting that value. >> Yeah, as you mentioned John, it really is much more than a technical journey. This is a cultural one as well for a lot of organizations. And by being more connected to the outcomes or the value that you add into production, it really does drive a new culture and engagement across our teams. If it's six months between rising line of code and seeing it in production, I have no sense of ownership or pride in what I've done there, but if I can deploy code immediately see an impact good or bad, then I really do feel connected to the outcomes and the value that I'm driving to the business and to our customers. So there really is a great cultural journey as well. >> Yeah, I remember Andy Jassy last year when he was the CEO of AWS on the stage and talked about that dynamic of the team where people run in the right direction, feeling part of it. Maynard, this is a cultural shift on how companies do business. I know Accenture have covered probably a dozen or so killer projects that have just been awesomely new and kind of different but a successful built on the cloud. So a lot of re-platforming refactoring. You're in the front lines working with companies at Accenture. What's the pattern that you see that's happening right now? What's your view of the current market? >> I mean, I think there's a huge shift in this journey too has bankrupted the move from being on the cloud to being cloud native. I'm really getting that value because there's a kind of almost example I see, there's a light bulb moment where ownership of what you put in production means that you move away from a model of we change code because either the business tell us to cause they have a functional requirement or because something's broken when we get into the model of but I want to improve the thing that I feel ownership of that's not alive. And you suddenly see how much difference that makes to the experience of it, the quality of it, the stability, all of those things improving. And so if I look more generally that cultural shift is an evolution that organizations go through and it starts with actually delivering it in a more agile way. At some large scale, you see agility moving up into that kind of business agility and starting to affect things like budgeting cycles and the kind of corporate functions if you like, that tend to sit around supporting peak pieces of delivery. And there's a lot more of that happening at the moment, aligned with more organizations pushing into being properly cloud native and transforming rather than the kind of first wave which was the shift onto the cloud. Now it's actually, that's really leveraged what we've got with the cloud. >> Yeah and you guys essentially have been riding on the wave of AWS and the Cloud for many, many years we've been covering it. Ben great success story. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, a head of Digital Engineering, Vodafone UK. Great example of modern engineering at work using AWS in Europe. Thanks for coming on theCUBE sharing your story. Maynard, thank you for also coming on and the work you're doing at Accenture and AWS, thank you. >> Thanks John, great to be here. >> It's theCUBE coverage of AWS Reinvent 2021 Executive Summit, I'm John Furrier your host, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(Music) >> Welcome to the AWS executive summit presented by Accenture at AWS reinvent 2021. I'm Lisa Martin, and I've got two cube alum here with me, please welcome Merim Bertovic, managing director of global IT enterprise architecture at Accenture and Chris Wegmann, Accenture, AWS business group technology and practices, senior managing director, gentlemen, welcome back to the program. >> Thank you, Lisa, great to be back. >> Thank you, Lisa. Great to be here. >> It is nice to be back in a way right here we are at this hybrid event, but we want to talk about what Accenture is doing with its, with AWS to serving its clients. And then we're going to get into your own internal use case, drinking your own champagne. Chris go ahead and start with you, talk to us about what Accenture is doing with AWS to serve its clients. >> Yeah, Lisa, it's exciting, as you said to be back in this hybrid event and you know, for me, this will be my 10th re-invent and for Accenture we're in year 14 of our partnership with AWS and actually year six of our partnership called Accenture AWS business group. And you know, the focus over the last year has been helping our clients come out of the pandemic stronger than, than where they started. Right? And a lot of that has been around focusing our customers, getting past cloud migration, past cloud modernization, and getting further into what we now call the cloud continuum, starting to truly leverage all the AWS assets and capabilities and services to, to truly speed their transformation. You know, we work with a lot of our customers who are needing to transform even faster today than they were before the pandemic. And, you know, we're focused on helping those customers do that with AWS services. >> So Merim, let's bring you into the conversation. Now Accenture's internal IT organization has been leveraging AWS and public cloud for a while. Talk to me about that you completed the journey a couple of years ago, 95% in the cloud. Talk to me about what you're doing there. >> Sure. Lisa, so our, our journey into the public cloud is complete. As you said, we put a bow on that project a couple of years ago. We started in 2015 and we went all in on public cloud. So we, the number 95%, 95% represents a true measure of everything it takes to run Accenture. Everything addressable is in the public cloud today. So the 95% just represents a small component of things that have to live outside of the cloud. But other than that, our journey to the cloud is complete, and we are very happy being in the cloud because it has opened tremendous doors for us as a business. I'm sure we'll talk about here as we go, but it's fundamentally a different place we live in today and where we were before we were in the cloud. >> Merim, you said something really powerful there a second ago. The Accenture's journey to the cloud is complete. I don't think I'd ever heard anybody say that. Talk to me about the impact, especially during the last 18 months that that cloud journey is delivered. >> I mean, one of the things I am extremely proud of for our collective global teams around the world, when the, obviously the, you know, when COVID hit and the pandemic engulf the world, the only difference for us was that people just did not come into an office to work. Our capabilities in the cloud, our capabilities of having everything in the cloud really made it that much easier for our people to go to work. We weren't fighting over resources around infrastructure. People could just work from home directly. So I'm extremely proud of the collective global team that made all of that happen as part of that execution of all those things. So it was really a very proud moment, I would say for all of us running IT. >> As well, it should be. Chris, talk about that from your perspective of facilitating that massive pivot 18, 19 months ago, and what your group was responsible for doing to enable this cloud journey to be complete. >> Yeah. I always laughed at, you know, Merim and our internal CIO organizations, we call it was our first customer, right. You know, way back when I started working in this partnership, you know, we were already starting to leverage AWS, S3 and EC2, and that insight Accenture, and we took a lot of those best practices and started helping, our clients leverages best practices. So, you know, from an Accenture, we always kind of harvest from internally what we're doing, but, you know, over the last several years, we really are our focused with the CIO organization, Merim's organization has been, you know, expanding the usage of non, you know, I, as I call Maya services, right? So past EC2, you know, past S3. Obviously there's always storage. There's always compute, but you know, truly doing and building serverless applications, truly using, you know, services, fully managed services. So, you know, the CIO organization doesn't have to spend their time doing that. And, for our customers, that's while it's, they're still early on in a lot of their journeys, that's a novel idea is a truly try to sunset IS services or EC2 and things like that, you know, and whether that's, you know, fix some containerization or things like that, I think the other big part is, is the maturing security footprint, right? Obviously, as you use one or more of these AWS services, your security posture, your presence, how you think about security. We created an asset called secure cloud foundation, leveraging many of the AWS services in the security space that have come out like guard duty and others really to help make that security foundation stronger, make it easier for our customers, including CIO to leverage those services and truly enable that move further up the cloud or further down the continuum as we call it. >> Merim, I want to get your thoughts on security from in a, because we have seen such a dramatic change in the threat landscape in the last 18, 19 months. We've seen a huge spike in ransomware. It's getting much more personal. It's now a household word. We've got the executive order. We had this rapid pivot to and hundreds of thousands of Accenture employees working from home. Talk to me about, you feel very confident in the cloud during that you didn't word where's your competence from a security perspective. >> As you said, security is the fastest growth in our business. Collectively, like you said, the bad guys don't sleep. We don't sleep either when it comes to security. One of the things that we're constantly thinking about is how do we turn on a lot of our capabilities as an example. So even, I would say at an enterprise level, it's different when you're running a big multinational corporation, 650,000 people like we do. We can't just turn everything on and hope for the best. We are very scripted in terms of how we think about those services, how we think about the processes, how we work with our CSO organization, so that we're very meticulous and very thorough in terms of what services we turn on, how we turn them on, when we turn them on? How long we make them available, because this is, this is the new world, right? We have extended our corporate structure out into the cloud. That means we have to think of different ways for how we want to consume those capabilities and services. So like Chris said, you know, the, the journey to the cloud for us is complete. A lot of it was I, as I would tell you, a lot of it was lift and shift for less. And we can talk about that if we get time, but it was more about getting into the cloud and taking advantage of the cloud where we are today, because now that we're there, we get to take advantage of all those capabilities that are there. And I would say the best part of being with on, in, in the cloud is also having the, the providers like AWS they are with us, helping us with that security posture. So it's not just us doing this by ourselves. >> So Chris, I want to talk about that Merim just said, this was mostly lift and shift. Talk to us about that. Cause when we talk to organizations in every industry, the cloud transition, the cloud journey is extremely challenging. It's complex. How did you do this? How did you facilitate this and in a relatively short time period, Chris? >> Yeah. And, and you're right. Everyone has conversations I have with my clients. You know, there's a huge debate whether to lift and shift or modernize or build new build cloud native, right? So, you know, in Accenture's situation, you know, very early on, it was identified that we can, we can do a large savings by doing a lift and shift migration, right. We were not a big data center owner, right. That wasn't, we're not a big capital intense organization. So for us, that, that journey we had, you know, colos and that stuff coming up for renewal. And we knew that we could, you know, get some early savings there and really, you know, reduce our footprint and take that investment and then invest it into, you know, true modernization. So Merim and his organization worked very closely to build the factory, to do the migrations, get that done in a very short amount of time and then turn their attention on truly refactoring rebuilding the applications. I'm super proud of the number of applications that we've rebuilt. I'm super proud of the number of applications that, that now are cloud native. And we live in these applications every day. You know, they they're everything from our performance to how we do our payroll and do our time charging and things like that. But which, you know, it was a big reason why, you know, we can access our systems remotely and at home versus going into different systems to get to that stuff. So, you know, it was very much heavily lift and shift early, then really focusing on modernization. And as Miriam said, getting, you know, now it's about living there and continuing, continuing to modernize, continuing to accelerate what we're doing in the cloud. >> Yeah. Lisa, its little bit like, so our journey lift and shift was a core component of it. But the minute we decided to go to the cloud, one of the things, the first things we did, as I said, no more vans. So any new capability that we were going to build, we were going to build a cloud native micro-services based, and that's been our standard for the last 3 or 4 years ago. So any new capability that comes along today that we must do custom, we build a cloud native microservices because one of the other things that I've got on my plate is I'm trying to reduce our overall technical debt. So all of these IS platforms, I still have to maintain them, patch them, support them, upgrade them. And I would rather be much more efficient at doing those things as, as I can and reinvest money into refactoring and modernizing the rest of the application, plead through containers through microservices, et cetera, which then gives me the agility right back to actually go even faster, to enable more services for the business. >> Speed is something that we've seen become even more critical in the last 18, 19 months where we needed to everybody pivot businesses multiple times over and over. But part of the challenge there Merim, I want to get your thoughts on this is they are something cultural shift. Talk to me about, you've been at Accenture for a long time. Talk to me about the cultural shift needed to facilitate this massive transformation to cloud and how Chris's team was a facilitator of that. >> So, you know, one of the things for us, I have probably in the last five years spoken to a thousand of our clients, around our cloud journey and this culture conversation always comes up and I will say, you know, the biggest thing for us was interesting. We had those same fears. We had some same in when we first talked about going to the cloud, you know, six years ago, it was very, not everything was there, that's there today. So the teams were extremely nervous and they were confident that we could never be as, as good in the cloud as we were on, on site. Yet here we are six years later and we're constantly finding ways to add value and take, bring value back. And though, it's so same teams. And one of the things is just, we gave them the challenge to say, Hey, this is the future. We're telling our clients, this is where we're going. We have an opportunity here to do something different and they took it and the team really took it on. And they said, okay, let's do it. And they act, and we looked at how we run into cloud the many different ways, whether we're using reserved instances, whether we're using containers, whether we're using, you know, different computer capabilities, we went through all of it and we're running such a highly efficient machine right now that it's like, we're still able to continue to eat out savings even five years after the program. Even two years after the program is complete, we're still able to get savings. >> That's outstanding. That's ROI that every business and every industry hopes to be able to achieve from this. I want to switch gears a little bit now because this is actually pretty cool. Accenture is really focused also on sustainability. You guys have signed onto the Amazon climate pledge, which if you don't know what the Amazon climate pledge, and this is back in 2019, Amazon, co-founded this a commitment to be net zero carbon across businesses by 2040, which is actually 10 years ahead of the Paris agreement. You're in talk to us about that. And from Accenture's perspective, why it was important to sign on to that. >> So on a, on a personal level, I love obviously sustainability as a whole, that I think about the world park for my children that are growing up. So it's very important to me on a personal level as well. But I would say at a company level, what I love about the cloud is I am there right there with them as they make investments. All of our enterprise capabilities are there. We are able to very quickly shift and use those capabilities. So as Amazon, for example, in this scenario creates new capabilities, new compute offerings, new, new storage offerings, whatever it may be. They're doing it with a sustainability lens and me by being in the cloud already, I can then turn to start using those things too. So as much as I can, on that perspective, I'm in a great place with, as Amazon puts these sustainability capabilities out there, I'm right there consuming and making them more efficient. And then the other one is obviously as much of our workloads, as we can get to a cloud native perspective, microservices perspective, then we keep reducing that compute consumption and everything else that goes along with it. And lastly, I would say, you know, the, the other thing is we're very aggressive in managing all of our systems in terms of uptime. So for example, in a data center, most, most organizations don't think about turning off their development environments and everything else. But for us, we're very rigid in this process. And we have a, we have a target of all of our development environments being down 55% of the time. And primarily that's also a sustainability play in addition to a financial savings plan. >> Awesome. Great stuff, Chris, last question for you, as we wrap up here, what are some of the things that you were excited about that's coming in cloud in the next few years? Obviously here we are at, re-invent going to be hearing a lot of news, a lot of announcements about cloud in the coming days. What excites you most, Chris? >> Yeah. You know, obviously the machine learning and AI stuff is, is always the most exciting things right now in cloud. And, you know, we've put a lot of those to use here inside of Accenture as well. And, and our, you know, in our synopsis platform, which we use with our customers to run in a more intelligent operations, we use that internally as well. But you know, one of the things that excites me the most is the continued innovation at the core. Right. And you know, whether that be, you know, chip sets, you know, Merim talked a little bit about, you know, improvement and performance improvement and power consumption, you know, grabbing time, those types of stuff that, that excites me every year, I look forward to seeing what, what they come out with and, and then how we're going to put that to use. >> Well, I look forward to talking to you guys next year, you've done such a tremendous job. You should be proud of the massive transformation that you've done. I imagine this is, would be a great case study. If it's not already written up, it should be. It's really impressive. Merim and Chris, thank you for joining me at the summit. Talking to me about what's going on with Accenture and AWS and some of the things that you are looking forward to, we appreciate your insights and your time. >> Thanks, Lisa. >> Thanks, Lisa. >> You're welcome for my guests. I'm Lisa Martin. This is the AWS executive summit presented by Accenture at AWS reinvent 2021. (Music)