>> From the theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Welcome to this week's Wikibon, theCUBE's insights powered by ETR. As we exited the isolation economy last year, supercloud is a term that we introduced to describe something new that was happening in the world of cloud. In this Breaking Analysis, we address the 10 most frequently asked questions we get around supercloud. Okay, let's review these frequently asked questions on supercloud that we're going to try to answer today. Look at an industry that's full of hype and buzzwords. Why the hell does anyone need a new term? Aren't hyperscalers building out superclouds? We'll try to answer why the term supercloud connotes something different from hyperscale clouds. And we'll talk about the problems that superclouds solve specifically. And we'll further define the critical aspects of a supercloud architecture. We often get asked, isn't this just multi-cloud? Well, we don't think so, and we'll explain why in this Breaking Analysis. Now in an earlier episode, we introduced the notion of super PaaS. Well, isn't a plain vanilla PaaS already a super PaaS? Again, we don't think so, and we'll explain why. Who will actually build and who are the players currently building superclouds? What workloads and services will run on superclouds? And 8-A or number nine, what are some examples that we can share of supercloud? And finally, we'll answer what you can expect next from us on supercloud? Okay, let's get started. Why do we need another buzzword? Well, late last year, ahead of re:Invent, we were inspired by a post from Jerry Chen called "Castles in the Cloud." Now in that blog post, he introduced the idea that there were sub-markets emerging in cloud that presented opportunities for investors and entrepreneurs that the cloud wasn't going to suck the hyperscalers. Weren't going to suck all the value out of the industry. And so we introduced this notion of supercloud to describe what we saw as a value layer emerging above the hyperscalers CAPEX gift, we sometimes call it. Now it turns out, that we weren't the only ones using the term as both Cornell and MIT have used the phrase in somewhat similar, but different contexts. The point is something new was happening in the AWS and other ecosystems. It was more than IaaS and PaaS, and wasn't just SaaS running in the cloud. It was a new architecture that integrates infrastructure, platform and software as services to solve new problems that the cloud vendors in our view, weren't addressing by themselves. It seemed to us that the ecosystem was pursuing opportunities across clouds that went beyond conventional implementations of multi-cloud. And we felt there was a structural change going on at the industry level, the supercloud, metaphorically was highlighting. So that's the background on why we felt a new catch phrase was warranted, love it or hate it. It's memorable and it's what we chose. Now to that last point about structural industry transformation. Andy Rappaport is sometimes and often credited with identifying the shift from the vertically integrated IBM mainframe era to the fragmented PC microprocesor-based era in his HBR article in 1991. In fact, it was David Moschella, who at the time was an IDC Analyst who first introduced the concept in 1987, four years before Rappaport's article was published. Moschella saw that it was clear that Intel, Microsoft, Seagate and others would replace the system vendors, and put that forth in a graphic that looked similar to the first two on this chart. We don't have to review the shift from IBM as the center of the industry to Wintel, that's well understood. What isn't as well known or accepted is what Moschella put out in his 2018 book called "Seeing Digital" which introduced the idea of "The Matrix" that's shown on the right hand side of this chart. Moschella posited that new services were emerging built on top of the internet and hyperscale clouds that would integrate other innovations and would define the next era of computing. He used the term Matrix because the conceptual depiction included not only horizontal technology rose like the cloud and the internet, but for the first time included connected industry verticals, the columns in this chart. Moschella pointed out that whereas historically, industry verticals had a closed value chain or stack and ecosystem of R&D, and production, and manufacturing, and distribution. And if you were in that industry, the expertise within that vertical generally stayed within that vertical and was critical to success. But because of digital and data, for the first time, companies were able to traverse industries, jump across industries and compete because data enabled them to do that. Examples, Amazon and content, payments, groceries, Apple, and payments, and content, and so forth. There are many examples. Data was now this unifying enabler and this marked a change in the structure of the technology landscape. And supercloud is meant to imply more than running in hyperscale clouds, rather it's the combination of multiple technologies enabled by CloudScale with new industry participants from those verticals, financial services and healthcare, manufacturing, energy, media, and virtually all in any industry. Kind of an extension of every company is a software company. Basically, every company now has the opportunity to build their own cloud or supercloud. And we'll come back to that. Let's first address what's different about superclouds relative to hyperscale clouds? You know, this one's pretty straightforward and obvious, I think. Hyperscale clouds, they're walled gardens where they want your data in their cloud and they want to keep you there. Sure, every cloud player realizes that not all data will go to their particular cloud so they're meeting customers where their data lives with initiatives like Amazon Outposts and Azure Arc, and Google Anthos. But at the end of the day, the more homogeneous they can make their environments, the better control, security, cost, and performance they can deliver. The more complex the environment, the more difficult it is to deliver on their brand promises. And of course, the lesser margin that's left for them to capture. Will the hyperscalers get more serious about cross-cloud services? Maybe, but they have plenty of work to do within their own clouds and within enabling their own ecosystems. They had a long way to go a lot of runway. So let's talk about specifically, what problems superclouds solve? We've all seen the stats from IDC or Gartner, or whomever the customers on average use more than one cloud. You know, two clouds, three clouds, five clouds, 20 clouds. And we know these clouds operate in disconnected silos for the most part. And that's a problem because each cloud requires different skills because the development environment is different as is the operating environment. They have different APIs, different primitives, and different management tools that are optimized for each respective hyperscale cloud. Their functions and value props don't extend to their competitors' clouds for the most part. Why would they? As a result, there's friction when moving between different clouds. It's hard to share data, it's hard to move work. It's hard to secure and govern data. It's hard to enforce organizational edicts and policies across these clouds, and on-prem. Supercloud is an architecture designed to create a single environment that enables management of workloads and data across clouds in an effort to take out complexity, accelerate application development, streamline operations and share data safely, irrespective of location. It's pretty straightforward, but non-trivial, which is why I always ask a company's CEO and executives if stock buybacks and dividends will yield as much return as building out superclouds that solve really specific and hard problems, and create differential value. Okay, let's dig a bit more into the architectural aspects of supercloud. In other words, what are the salient attributes of supercloud? So first and foremost, a supercloud runs a set of specific services designed to solve a unique problem and it can do so in more than one cloud. Superclouds leverage the underlying cloud native tooling of a hyperscale cloud, but they're optimized for a specific objective that aligns with the problem that they're trying to solve. For example, supercloud might be optimized for lowest cost or lowest latency, or sharing data, or governing, or securing that data, or higher performance for networking, for example. But the point is, the collection of services that is being delivered is focused on a unique value proposition that is not being delivered by the hyperscalers across clouds. A supercloud abstracts the underlying and siloed primitives of the native PaaS layer from the hyperscale cloud and then using its own specific platform as a service tooling, creates a common experience across clouds for developers and users. And it does so in a most efficient manner, meaning it has the metadata knowledge and management capabilities that can optimize for latency, bandwidth, or recovery, or data sovereignty, or whatever unique value that supercloud is delivering for the specific use case in their domain. And a supercloud comprises a super PaaS capability that allows ecosystem partners through APIs to add incremental value on top of the supercloud platform to fill gaps, accelerate features, and of course innovate. The services can be infrastructure-related, they could be application services, they could be data services, security services, user services, et cetera, designed and packaged to bring unique value to customers. Again, that hyperscalers are not delivering across clouds or on-premises. Okay, so another common question we get is, isn't that just multi-cloud? And what we'd say to that is yes, but no. You can call it multi-cloud 2.0, if you want, if you want to use it, it's kind of a commonly used rubric. But as Dell's Chuck Whitten proclaimed at Dell Technologies World this year, multi-cloud by design, is different than multi-cloud by default. Meaning to date, multi-cloud has largely been a symptom of what we've called multi-vendor or of M&A, you buy a company and they happen to use Google Cloud, and so you bring it in. And when you look at most so-called, multi-cloud implementations, you see things like an on-prem stack, which is wrapped in a container and hosted on a specific cloud or increasingly a technology vendor has done the work of building a cloud native version of their stack and running it on a specific cloud. But historically, it's been a unique experience within each cloud with virtually no connection between the cloud silos. Supercloud sets out to build incremental value across clouds and above hyperscale CAPEX that goes beyond cloud compatibility within each cloud. So if you want to call it multi-cloud 2.0, that's fine, but we chose to call it supercloud. Okay, so at this point you may be asking, well isn't PaaS already a version of supercloud? And again, we would say no, that supercloud and its corresponding superPaaS layer which is a prerequisite, gives the freedom to store, process and manage, and secure, and connect islands of data across a continuum with a common experience across clouds. And the services offered are specific to that supercloud and will vary by each offering. Your OpenShift, for example, can be used to construct a superPaaS, but in and of itself, isn't a superPaaS, it's generic. A superPaaS might be developed to support, for instance, ultra low latency database work. It would unlikely again, taking the OpenShift example, it's unlikely that off-the-shelf OpenShift would be used to develop such a low latency superPaaS layer for ultra low latency database work. The point is supercloud and its inherent superPaaS will be optimized to solve specific problems like that low latency example for distributed databases or fast backup and recovery for data protection, and ransomware, or data sharing, or data governance. Highly specific use cases that the supercloud is designed to solve for. Okay, another question we often get is who has a supercloud today and who's building a supercloud, and who are the contenders? Well, most companies that consider themselves cloud players will, we believe, be building or are building superclouds. Here's a common ETR graphic that we like to show with Net Score or spending momentum on the Y axis and overlap or pervasiveness in the ETR surveys on the X axis. And we've randomly chosen a number of players that we think are in the supercloud mix, and we've included the hyperscalers because they are enablers. Now remember, this is a spectrum of maturity it's a maturity model and we've added some of those industry players that we see building superclouds like CapitalOne, Goldman Sachs, Walmart. This is in deference to Moschella's observation around The Matrix and the industry structural changes that are going on. This goes back to every company, being a software company and rather than pattern match an outdated SaaS model, we see new industry structures emerging where software and data, and tools, specific to an industry will lead the next wave of innovation and bring in new value that traditional technology companies aren't going to solve, and the hyperscalers aren't going to solve. You know, we've talked a lot about Snowflake's data cloud as an example of supercloud. After being at Snowflake Summit, we're more convinced than ever that they're headed in this direction. VMware is clearly going after cross-cloud services you know, perhaps creating a new category. Basically, every large company we see either pursuing supercloud initiatives or thinking about it. Dell showed project Alpine at Dell Tech World, that's a supercloud. Snowflake introducing a new application development capability based on their superPaaS, our term of course, they don't use the phrase. Mongo, Couchbase, Nutanix, Pure Storage, Veeam, CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler. Yeah, all of those guys. Yes, Cisco and HPE. Even though on theCUBE at HPE Discover, Fidelma Russo said on theCUBE, she wasn't a fan of cloaking mechanisms, but then we talked to HPE's Head of Storage Services, Omer Asad is clearly headed in the direction that we would consider supercloud. Again, those cross-cloud services, of course, their emphasis is connecting as well on-prem. That single experience, which traditionally has not existed with multi-cloud or hybrid. And we're seeing the emergence of companies, smaller companies like Aviatrix and Starburst, and Clumio and others that are building versions of superclouds that solve for a specific problem for their customers. Even ISVs like Adobe, ADP, we've talked to UiPath. They seem to be looking at new ways to go beyond the SaaS model and add value within their cloud ecosystem specifically, around data as part of their and their customers digital transformations. So yeah, pretty much every tech vendor with any size or momentum and new industry players are coming out of hiding, and competing. Building superclouds that look a lot like Moschella's Matrix, with machine intelligence and blockchains, and virtual realities, and gaming, all enabled by the internet and hyperscale cloud CAPEX. So it's moving fast and it's the future in our opinion. So don't get too caught up in the past or you'll be left behind. Okay, what about examples? We've given a number in the past, but let's try to be a little bit more specific. Here are a few we've selected and we're going to answer the two questions in one section here. What workloads and services will run in superclouds and what are some examples? Let's start with analytics. Our favorite example is Snowflake, it's one of the furthest along with its data cloud, in our view. It's a supercloud optimized for data sharing and governance, query performance, and security, and ecosystem enablement. When you do things inside of that data cloud, what we call a super data cloud. Again, our term, not theirs. You can do things that you could not do in a single cloud. You can't do this with Redshift, You can't do this with SQL server and they're bringing new data types now with merging analytics or at least accommodate analytics and transaction type data, and bringing open source tooling with things like Apache Iceberg. And so it ticks the boxes we laid out earlier. I would say that a company like Databricks is also in that mix doing it, coming at it from a data science perspective, trying to create that consistent experience for data scientists and data engineering across clouds. Converge databases, running transaction and analytic workloads is another example. Take a look at what Couchbase is doing with Capella and how it's enabling stretching the cloud to the edge with ARM-based platforms and optimizing for low latency across clouds, and even out to the edge. Document database workloads, look at MongoDB, a very developer-friendly platform that with the Atlas is moving toward a supercloud model running document databases very, very efficiently. How about general purpose workloads? This is where VMware comes into to play. Very clearly, there's a need to create a common operating environment across clouds and on-prem, and out to the edge. And I say VMware is hard at work on that. Managing and moving workloads, and balancing workloads, and being able to recover very quickly across clouds for everyday applications. Network routing, take a look at what Aviatrix is doing across clouds, industry workloads. We see CapitalOne, it announced its cost optimization platform for Snowflake, piggybacking on Snowflake supercloud or super data cloud. And in our view, it's very clearly going to go after other markets is going to test it out with Snowflake, running, optimizing on AWS and it's going to expand to other clouds as Snowflake's business and those other clouds grows. Walmart working with Microsoft to create an on-premed Azure experience that's seamless. Yes, that counts, on-prem counts. If you can create that seamless and continuous experience, identical experience from on-prem to a hyperscale cloud, we would include that as a supercloud. You know, we've written about what Goldman is doing. Again, connecting its on-prem data and software tooling, and other capabilities to AWS for scale. And we can bet dollars to donuts that Oracle will be building a supercloud in healthcare with its Cerner acquisition. Supercloud is everywhere you look. So I'm sorry, naysayers it's happening all around us. So what's next? Well, with all the industry buzz and debate about the future, John Furrier and I, have decided to host an event in Palo Alto, we're motivated and inspired to further this conversation. And we welcome all points of view, positive, negative, multi-cloud, supercloud, hypercloud, all welcome. So theCUBE on Supercloud is coming on August 9th, out of our Palo Alto studios, we'll be running a live program on the topic. We've reached out to a number of industry participants, VMware, Snowflake, Confluent, Sky High Security, Gee Rittenhouse's new company, HashiCorp, CloudFlare. We've hit up Red Hat and we expect many of these folks will be in our studios on August 9th. And we've invited a number of industry participants as well that we're excited to have on. From industry, from financial services, from healthcare, from retail, we're inviting analysts, thought leaders, investors. We're going to have more detail in the coming weeks, but for now, if you're interested, please reach out to me or John with how you think you can advance the discussion and we'll see if we can fit you in. So mark your calendars, stay tuned for more information. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to Alex Myerson who handles production and manages the podcast for Breaking Analysis. And I want to thank Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight, they help get the word out on social and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE, who does a lot of editing and appreciate you posting on SiliconANGLE, Rob. Thanks to all of you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. It publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can email me directly at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @DVellante, or comment on my LinkedIn post. And please do check out ETR.ai for the best survey data. And the enterprise tech business will be at AWS NYC Summit next Tuesday, July 12th. So if you're there, please do stop by and say hello to theCUBE, it's at the Javits Center. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis." (bright music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience brought to you by Dell Technologies. >> Hello, and welcome back to theCUBE's coverage, actually, CUBE virtual coverage of Dell Technology World Digital Experience 2020. I'm your host John Furrier with theCUBE. We're not in person this year. Normally we're on the floor, we're talking to all the guests. This year, obviously, because of the pandemic we're going to be doing remote and of course, I'm proud to have a CUBE alumni back on the program. Cheryl Cook, senior vice president, global partner marketing for Dell Technologies. Cheryl, great to see you remotely, bummer we couldn't be in person, thanks for coming on. >> I know, thank you John. It's great to be with you virtually again. >> You know, I just want to just point out that obviously we're not face to face. Normally Dell Technology World is a real celebration. It's the, it's a culmination of all the announcements, all the community, all the partners, it's, it's actually a huge partner event as well as a customer event. You're running global partners. How has this pandemic changed your world? People still got to do business. More pressure for modern apps, programmable infrastructure Hybrid Cloud. The world's not stopping. What is your take on this? Because it's been a real challenge but it's an also an opportunity for the folks who can get through it. What's your take? >> Yeah, it's just been remarkable. You know, I tell people in some ways I find this the great equalizer because it has all of us around the world in the exact same place but our partners have just been remarkable. You know, we see inspirational work all over the place. They're so resilient and they have just been focused on the customer. And so together we have just been really focused on helping all of our customers as we know, in the early weeks and months of this now, you know, it was pivoting to support business continuity and enabling their employees to work remotely. And our partners just rallied to the cause. You know, they bring their expertise and their capabilities and their services. And you know, we've all been talking about digital transformation and the need to modernize all of our infrastructures. And I think we're all seeing it just accelerate. So in so many ways, it's just pushed it to the forefront and a lot of us, because we don't have an alternative, we're all engaging in modalities like this, but we're getting business done, right? We're helping our customers really respond to the needs of the business. And I think in the early stages of this, you know, we've been characterizing it as there was a lot of go fast, go light. Now we're seeing, you know, that we're all recognizing we're going to be in this circumstance for the foreseeable future, a little longer than maybe we all intended and now it's do it right. So we see a lot of just good work around hardening infrastructure, working on security vulnerabilities. How do we harden a VPN environment? So to be candid, you know, the breadth of our portfolio and a lot of the infrastructure solutions, our partnership with VMware has never been more relevant. And a lot of those capabilities our partners are leveraging to be able to support their customers needs and demands. >> Yeah, that's a great point about the VMware and I want to bring that up because I've been doing a lot of interviews and one of the themes for Dell Tech World Digital Experience this year has been the VMware integration. And what's interesting is is that that investment of being tightly coupled with VMware and your other partners is paying off now because as people need to be truly agile and flexible because of the disruption, the way the work environment, the workforce, workloads and the workplace has been changed they really need to lean on Dell. And you guys have that slogan, the power of partnering with Dell Technologies. I want to dig into what that means because the customers, your partners, end user customer there's kind of two spectrums. There's the, this is a tailwind, I have to go faster and put this modern app, I'm going to double down and solve problems. Whether it's a call center is getting stuff built quickly to solve needs. Two, well, this is a pandemic that's integral. So we're going to retool while we're kind of downtime. I won't say downtime, but like, while they're not truly active, whether you're in airlines or whatever, there's different spectrums and everything in between. You guys are bringing a lot to the table through these partnerships and the integrations. Can you talk about how that's paying off and two, how you guys are helping your partners and give some examples? >> Yeah, well, thank you John. And, you know, we have been saying for some time that we really do think the cross sell up, sell opportunity is a differentiated opportunity for our partners teaming with Dell Technologies. You know, even in the last several months while we've all been kind of working from home, our innovation engine hasn't stopped. I mean, we've launched nine new products in nine weeks all of which are just innovations that continue to represent areas where partners can team with us to bring those modernized applications to bear. And to your point, many of our partners and our customers are using this time when we're all remote and you can't go onsite, they're doubling down on their training. You know, we've seen an unbelievable demand in our competency training and our certification capabilities, clearly with the product launches. I just mentioned, there's new training to enable them around the new offerings. Our PowerStore product was just launched. So unbelievable opportunities. And as you said with VMware, you know, we have been for some time, when we talk about cross sell our partners that sell two and three lines of business, their revenues are multiples higher than partners that don't and candidly partners that sell three lines of business and sell VMware are selling like 148 times the revenue and I think it's a reflection of their engaging in strategic sticky services, rich deployments of hybrid cloud implementations with their customers, and the customers need their help and expertise like never before. So I think the results are showing true. And I also think in this dynamic of everything's gone digital, everything's pivoted to digital, you know, our partners have been asking how can we help them be more effective and successful in their digital marketing efforts and activities? How can we assist them in virtual selling? You know, everybody's accustomed to face to face sales contacts and we've all learned how to use your platform and Zoom and teams and all these other modalities that allow us to frankly be highly effective and efficient. And our partners candidly are leaning into some of our services and tools and capabilities that honestly have been there for some time, but like remote diagnostics, for example, remote capabilities so that you don't have to go on the data center floor and you can still be doing assessments and provisioning and orchestration and deployment for your customers in this time. And you're right, some customers and partners are using this as an opportunity to invest so that, you know, when the world opens up, this will end at some point, they are incredibly well positioned to move forward and take advantage of what's already been a fast moving market. And I just think this environment it's accelerated, the move and adoption, like never before. >> Yeah, and to your point, I think the thing we're seeing is that the vendors and the customers that have been prepared, suppliers and customers that have been thinking about it, you can see them having performance. Even in the challenging handcuffed environment that they're in with the whole, you know, disruption working at home to the data center because the edge and the data center are now connecting and you've got hybrid public, multi-cloud developing and everyone's got to learn and build out at the same time. So it's interesting, I want to get your thoughts on this because you know, the word virtual event has been kicked around. We have our own virtual event thing and everyone's doing it. This is theCUBE virtual but they don't use the word digital, but we say digital transformation. Is it digital, virtual transformation? So you've got virtual, I guess, reality virtual spaces, digital as digital, explain this from your perspective, how you see digital and virtual marketing and, or learning as a critical part of your program offerings because people still got to get the new things, they got to learn. >> I honestly, I think it's gone from a nice to have, and we all acknowledge that it's a transformation in the world of marketing to a, now it's a must have, right? I mean, when you no longer can do in person events, and many of our partners would have looked at that as a demand generation activity, they'd be capturing the leads from all the conversations we'd be having on a solution expo floor. We'd be having our in person events to now, we're going to convey our information and knowledge and maybe a virtual setting but that pivot to digital marketing, your online presence, the personalization at scale, making sure we acknowledged and understand that we have to meet our buyers and acknowledge the buyer journey has changed. And I think it's a must have now. So it's no longer a nice to have and we've all been describing the pace of change. But I think when you couple some of the trends in the industry with just the reality of this pandemic, that's making each of us be more resourceful than ever. You know, we, for example, I've seen our partners pivot the utilization of their MDF dollars into digital alternatives. They are certainly doing these Zoom experiences but they're also investing in their web properties and their search and making sure that as we pivot to digital we, for example, on the marketing side, we pivoted quickly to kind of stand up what we're calling an agile pod and it was a digital first agile pod that was frankly all aimed at training, enablement, social media guides, webinars on expertise on how we as a company were responding. What was our internal communication strategy, our external communication strategy. And I just think this appetite for training, knowledge. Some of it was necessity and some of it is we're all home and we have time and we want to hone our skills to ensure that we're ready. So I've never been busier as much as we're all working from home. We have never been busier on supporting the great and innovative work that our partners are doing but also really focused on the training, best practice sharing, enablement and webinars on how we're in it together, right? How can we help each other really respond in a sustaining way? Honestly, not just an interim way of our new digital capabilities, marketing capabilities. And I think we're experiencing, you know, what I think the opportunity of this digital trend in marketing is the handshake between marketing and sales has never been tighter. And I think really done well, we are going to provide a more personalized experience for our prospects and our customers. We're going to make our sellers more productive. We're going to be engaging along that continuum. We kind of it a digital heartbeat. We're going to be responding to where they are online and then we're also going to be meeting in person or over a virtual Zoom. And you're going to be accelerating in a highly relevant, much more personalized way to drive to the outcome of these solutions. It's a richer experience. So it's less about is marketing creating a bunch of leads that I can hand over to my sellers as much as what's the overall customer experience? And that experience needs to be a rich, personalized one that kind of transcends over marketing and sales. >> Yeah, Cheryl, you have an amazing vision, I think that is so spot on, you're on point. And I think you bring up a whole kind of sea change. It's really transformational just in the thinking, you mentioned, oh, just put out leads, also just, it's not about just standing up events either. You mentioned sustainability, how to have that heartbeat. This is a whole new level of thinking. I mean, every company the adage used to be, every company used to be a data company, every company will be a data company, true. Now you're seeing every company becoming a media company. Where you are probably doing more hosting of things. You're on camera more. So this new media API is developing where you want the command control, you want the truth, you want the community, you want the authenticity. This is the new, this is the new digital marketing, real time, agile and fast and relevant and cool too. What's your, expand more on your vision? >> And test and learn, you know, is a word we use a lot because instead of, you know, having to build something, go put it out, let's have some metrics and measures on how effective it was. The speed with which you can garner real time feedback. You know, everything needs to be more modular in natures, you know, snackable, if you will in nature, so that you can adapt and respond to what your customers are telling you, right? And I mean, I think we've been talking about consumerization of IT for some time. And I think this digital marketing is just the expression within marketing of how each of us come to work. And we're all at home as consumers engaging in this digital way as a consumer every day. So now when we bring it to work we bring our own preferences and in a B2B setting and a B2B context, we want to engage and it accelerates just the learning cycle. So I think it's a combination of the tools, the automation that exists now. So when you talk about leveraging AI and machine learning in the context of marketing automation, it's just putting to use all these technical trends that we've been discussing for some time in the context of customer experience. So I think this, like I said, the handshake between marketing and sales it's all about staying customer centric, listening to what the customers are telling you, their interests and preferences are. How do we respond in the most, highly relevant way around how we can help them, and done well, it's a positive experience but it's also an accelerated experience. You can get to the answer faster. And as long as we get to the answer faster, that's what the customer is looking for. Then it's a win, win for everybody. >> That's awesome, I love, I love that conversation because this brings up kind of the future for that, for your organization and your customers as you guys have this global partner network. Okay, and one of the things that the pandemic has shown is that with these digital technologies and virtual technologies, it's not a physical event, it's global. I mean, instantly Dell Technologies World you'd have to fly there, certainly from overseas, you could certainly do that. But now with one click of a button, you're in The programs that you have are global in nature. I'm sure there's some regional segmentation that's done with cloud and all that good stuff but you aren't going to have to recast your partner programs. Can you share how you're helping partners with their digital transformation? Didn't just give a couple examples of specifics of if I'm a partner what's in for me, Cheryl, what's going on? How is Dell helping me today? >> Yeah, well, I commented a little bit about this digital first kind of agile pod work we did. Some of that is selling guides, social media guides, how to actually do social selling, how to pivot some best practices around, you know, what activities can you put your MDF to good use that is showing really positive returns in the short term. So it's a lot of best practice sharing. And then candidly, we as a company, as we put campaigns in market, or we're giving marketing assets, collateral, social opportunities to our partners, it's all about how to help them get educated and use what we're already providing for them. So we recognize that, you know, partner's capabilities will vary across the board and certainly regionally, as you said but we definitely are helping them with, you know, here's what we're seeing around industry solutions. Here are certain industry verticals we know are responding or, you know, coming out of this environment faster than others. Here's campaigns that you can leverage both modularly or full-term key to be able to drive that. So to your point, the handshake, the support, the overall engagement of our partner community has never been higher. I mean, I'll give you a good example. You know, we talked about training and this opportunity to reach more people through these forums than in person. You know, we conduct trainings of presale technical teams around the world. We call it our heroes events, and these are in, you know, typically in person, but now they've gone virtual. We've trained over 18,000 presales technical engineers just in the first half alone to be able leverage our remote tools lean in and leverage the integration around VMware like we were just discussing. What are the new capabilities that have launched around, you know, VxRail with VCF Foundation and how they can go deploy. So in many ways we actually are touching and addressing the audience much wider than we might have otherwise. And I can put my subject matter experts, my best experts in the company on a Zoom forum like this. And I can have him in Sydney, Australia, Paris. I can have them in San Francisco on the same day and they never leave their home. So it's actually, we've all been very resilient, but are finding I think in the go-forward world, it'll be a hybrid model. We're going to leverage some of these best practices and tools. Even when the world reopens, we certainly will be doing in person events, again, that's going to come back but I do think it will be forever changed. And we're going to leverage this hybrid model with our partners and they're bringing their expertise to bear. And a lot of the vertical industry capabilities they bring, they're able to reach an audience broader over capabilities like this. >> You know, it's going to be a lot of fun too, all this new learning and all this headroom from asynchronous progressions that are nonlinear. As you mentioned training, people are getting trained faster to made for TV experiences. You're going to start to see, and then when hybrid events come back, they're going to be different. They may be more intimate. All new opportunities to learn and move fast and that's something that you guys have done. So congratulations, Cheryl, thanks for that great insight. My final question for you, this year for the partners watching who are there in person, 'cause we're not, we're remote. What should they take away from the Dell Technology World Digital Experience event this year? What's your, what's your, what's your summary here? >> Well, I hope they enjoy the couple of days and you certainly have heard, you know, Michael and Jeff and Pat and others talk about the innovation engine at Dell Technologies is not slowing down. You know, the tight partnership we have with VMware and the level of capabilities that we're bringing in this as a service, Hybrid Cloud, 5G, world of Hybrid Cloud deployments. We absolutely have our foot on the gas and are going to continue to be that partner to provide the world's best infrastructure and capabilities. And when you look at the power of partnership and to your point on what we're describing with our global alliance partners, the innovative and inspirational work, some of our OEM customers and partners have done is just remarkable. And like I said, we are growing faster than the competition, even in this environment. So we just really appreciate the partnership very much. And I want them to lean in with Dell Technologies because it's not going to slow down as we've just been discussing. I think it's going to continue to move fast and we absolutely are committed for the longterm to continue to innovate and bring new capabilities to market. >> Well, certainly people who have good business performance in this environment certainly are relevant and have the right product mix, made the right moves and it's paying off, a lot more to do. Cheryl, congratulations for all the success and the you're a great leader heading up the global partner marketing group over there. Congratulations, you've got a great vision, we totally agree. Thanks for coming, I appreciate it. >> Thank you, John, it's been a pleasure. >> I'm John Furrier here with Cheryl Cook, senior vice president, global partner marketing at Dell Technologies, theCUBE virtual covering Dell Technology World Digital Experience 2020. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe. It's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies, World Digital Experience brought to you by Dell Technologies. >> And welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the Dell Technology World Digital Experience 2020. I'm John Furrier your host of theCUBE. This is theCUBE virtual. It's a virtual event. We're not in person this year, obviously because of the COVID pandemic, our guest Michael Dell, the CEO of Dell Technologies. Great to see him back on again and remotely. Michael, sorry we couldn't be there in person but thank you for coming on virtually. Thanks for coming on. >> Great to be with you John. >> You know what a year it's been. I got to say, it's been one of those years where you don't know what's going to happen next. And it's been kind of crazy. I want to get your take on how you guys are getting through it. And specifically you guys have had great business performance. We've seen the results of what's going on with Dell Technologies, VMware, but there's a crisis. People need more machines, they need more internet access. There's a huge demand for modern applications with cloud and on-premises, not everyone's going to be there on-premises. So the workplace, the workforce, the workloads are all changing, but you hit all of them. The consumer from having a great machine, internet access, this kind of digital divide where people are remote schooling is super important. Can you talk about how you guys are doing, how the company's doing, how you're doing and what you guys are doing to help bridge this new cultural environment of this digital divide? >> Sure. So again, great to be with you and thanks for all your great coverage at Dell Technologies World. Once again this time virtually. Look, I think having a resilient supply chain is always important but these last eight months it's been incredibly important. Demand has certainly shifted around and having you know, secure remote work from anywhere has been a high priority for lots of organizations. I think something like 4.5 billion people were asked to go stay in their homes. So, you know it was work from home, learn from home, entertainment, E-commerce, telemedicine, everything went online and I think we got a glimpse of the future. And I think a lot of this actually gets carried forward. And certainly the priorities that we've been focused on, you know multicloud, app modernization and containers, the tremendous growth at the edge, data management, software defining the networks, AI, 5G, all these things I think get accelerated. So amid the tragedy and the challenges. I do think there's a great acceleration of the fourth industrial revolution. >> You brought this up last time, last year as well. And again this is pre everything's kind of going to be before COVID kind of after the COVID world, but you were kind of teasing this out last year and I want to get your thoughts because now more than ever, you mentioned some people don't have laptops to even do the remote work and remote schooling. And then internet access has been discussed for generation of having more broadband in areas that are underserved. This is a super important piece. Can you just share some of the initiatives that you guys are taking because I know you guys have some things going on, you're doing a lot of philanthropy. Again the supply chain is on the business side is super important, but you know specifically this society, how are you guys helping? >> Right. So, you know just in the United States, you've got roughly 15 million kids who don't have either the broadband access or a device. And we've got a pilot program running to begin to address this. And, you know it's part of the broader 2030 moonshot goals that we laid out, you know actually last year for the next decade. But I do think, you know what the pandemic exposed, it exposed the fault lines in our society in access to healthcare, to education, to justice and certainly, you know we have a kind of digital inequality, right? If you don't have a device and you don't have access, you're left out of economic opportunity and you know that's something we should all be focused on. We believe, our broader ecosystem can make a big difference there. And it's one of our priorities. >> You know technology has been a big enabler over the years. You know we've talked many times privately also on theCUBE around these inflection points. I mean you started Dell technologies in your dorm room and now you got kids doing stuff in the elementary, (indistinct) to the thing on space with, you know cybersecurity and space is a big trend and they're starting early in elementary school. Now you got the boardroom and everywhere in between. The tech trends are the big opportunity. You know I want to dig into it. And I want to get your thoughts because you know with cloud computing, gen one, you say check, scale, it matters. But the big wave right now is everything as a service. And so you got to be nimble. You got to be agile. But that's easy to say and hard to do. I want to get your thoughts on how you see everything as a service from platform to SaaS, to developer as a service, to cube as a service, to Dell as a service. Everything is becoming a service. What's under the covers there because it's not easy. Automation machine learning. What do you seek? This is going to get us out of the pandemic as more people are agile. Give me your thoughts. >> That's right. So, you know we've actually, as you point out, we've been at this for awhile and you know if you look on our balance sheet, you'll see almost $24 billion deferred revenues. So it's not a completely new idea to us. And we are aggressively expanding as a service. So our customers and partners can access our solutions anyway they want and we're committed to making everything that we provide available as a service. And one of the things we're talking a lot about here at Dell Technologies World is providing a consistent experience no matter where customers run their workloads. And so we've unveiled project Apex, which is really bringing together all of our as a service and cloud offerings into a consistent unified effort. We're enhancing the Dell technologies cloud console. And this is going to give customers the power to manage every aspect of their cloud journey. And as a service journey through a simple unified self service experience. We're going to be talking a lot about storage as a service. Storage is always important to Dell technologies and providing scalable lastic storage resources that can be deployed, owned and managed on premise, but owned by Dell Technologies. And we're going to bring some updates to the Dell Technologies cloud platform to make it easier, simpler to consume, lower the barriers to entry and extending our subscription availability. >> You know in the platform businesses and all the people talk about platforms. And over the years, when you have a platform business you have to kind of dog food or kind of you know, do it first before the customers dig in to using the service. You mentioned, you guys have been doing Dell as a service across your product lines, and we've documented that certainly on SiliconANGLE in theCUBE, but now you got to bring it to customers. Can you tell me how that's going because with the pandemic, some things are obviously customers need to double down on building modern apps, having programmable infrastructure. As you guys have everything as a service from the Dell side. Now the customers have to do their part. They've turned their offerings into as a service. Can you take us through trends you're seeing in your customer base around the pandemic? And you know this is a permanent is a cyclical. What's the customer impact of everything as a service. >> I think this is clearly the demand, you know trend (laughs) from customers. And, as I said we've been embracing it for some time. One of the reasons we created this project Apex is to bring it all together because I would say we want to to go faster right? (laughs) And we always want to to go faster. And the, you know what you've seen from customers in the last eight months is you kind of exposed the digitally enabled and the not so much digitally enabled. And, a lot of customers have accelerated their progress on their digital journey quite a bit during these last eight months. And, you know as I said, I think a lot of that gets carried forward. You know we ourselves, over a weekend basically said, okay everybody work from home now has worked really well. There's lots of benefits to that. There are productivity benefits, environmental benefits. And I think we're all finding ways that we could be more productive. And I think a lot of this will persist after the pandemic. >> Yeah. When we were covering VMworld just recently this event that they had the virtual event. What came out of that was the 5G trend. And some of the conversation was 5G is not a consumer app. It's really a business app. Could you share your thoughts on 5G? Because it will enable the edge, intelligent edge 5G is super important. What's your vision on how 5G will roll out? Do you agree with it more as a business app not so much consumer? >> Yeah. I mean the first application will be, hey let's have 5G phones. Great. But you really can't talk faster all right, on your 5G phone. (laughs) So what is this all about? It's about making things intelligent and having the things talk to each other and they're going to be way more things talking to each other than there are people. Imagine every arm processor or embedded processor out there in the world now being connected and intelligent, the amount of data that gets created. So it's really about connecting all the things. And that is you know incredibly exciting possibility. Organizations have to reimagine themselves. Given that future and 5G will be the digital fabric that allows this new future to be created. >> When you look at Dell Technologies out 10 years to 2030, what does it look like as you eliminate about the internet things and the edge, what's the vision for Dell 2030? >> So first I think you're going to have autonomous infrastructure and it's going to be highly distributed on the intelligent edge. And that's going to enable enormous advances in really all human endeavors and Dell Technologies is going to be the essential infrastructure company to power all of this. And, you know our moonshot goals point the way in another sense, where we talk about advancing sustainability, cultivating inclusion, transforming lives and upholding ethics and data privacy. And you know we didn't create those priorities for the last eight months, but certainly the last eight months put a real magnifying glass and exclamation point on their importance. And, you know we continue to be super optimistic about the role technology has in the world and the role that we can play in helping customers achieve that. >> And the role of cloud is cloud going to be abstracted away? Is that cloud going to continue to be a big part of it as cloud on premise, mean as these environments look more cloud-like operationally and autonomous, does that kind of go away in 10 years? Do you see that becoming just part of the resource pool? How do you view that? >> Well, clouds are infrastructure, right? So you can have a public cloud, you can have an edge cloud, a private cloud, a Telco cloud, or hybrid cloud, or multicloud, here cloud, there cloud, everywhere cloud cloud. Yet, they'll all be there, but it's basically infrastructure. And how do you make that as easy to consume and create the flexibility that enables everything. >> Yeah. And we saw that VMware, they had talked about telco cloud as a trend. We see that everything's going to be a cloud. Everything will be a service. That's our view. I want to get your thoughts on entrepreneurial thinking. You've always been an entrepreneur, even as you've got this massively billions of dollars in companies out there you're still innovating. Right now entrepreneurial thinking is needed more than ever. And can you share your advice to people out there who wanted to be more digitally enabled, who have to think about the next 10 years. What entrepreneurial thinking can they apply now? Because let's face it COVID has exposed what needs to be worked on what should not be worked on. So there's clearly a digital push there. What entrepreneurial tactics what would you share with the folks out there who really want to be on the wave here and be digitally enabled position for the future? >> Well, you know I kind of started with experiment, take a risk, find a new problem and figure out how to go solve it. And look, I continue to be inspired by all the new entrepreneurs and new companies out there being created. And while there's certainly, you know one trend in consolidation in parts of our industry, there are always new and interesting things happening in the world of technology. And that's where you see a lot of these new companies being created. And you know that always excites me. I don't see too much of a shortage of entrepreneurial thinking out there, but well you know use more of it because that's how the world pushes forward when you have people with new ideas, willing to take risks, capital available to, you know support that risk-taking, you know that's where you get new innovation. >> Yeah. I could see the opportunities executed on them. I want to get your thoughts on AI, obviously as we've seen huge backlash on some of the, with the elections here going on, and you got all the, you know, tech for good on one side, tech for bad on the other and everything in between. Technology isn't any abler. And it does have some consequences, but there's some great things going on with technology. I know you've been advocate for the past two years of specifically hardcore for technology for good. As AI becomes more prominent as machine learning and data comes into the picture, can you give your thoughts on where we are with technology for good? What are some of the highlights and what areas we need to work more on? And how has the role data and AI play in it? >> I do think technology is overwhelmingly used for good and, you know long time ago, you know fire was technology, right? Somebody came to the village and said, "Hey we got this new thing you know called fire. "And you know it can warm a home "or it could burn down the whole village." But overwhelmingly technology innovations have advanced human progress. And I only think it's accelerating from here. And as everything becomes intelligent and connected, AI is the only way to double reason over all that data, especially the streaming data in real time. And all of that is going to accrue positively to great human outcomes. And every business has to reimagine itself, to create better products and services, to create better outcomes for the students, the patients, for manufacturing to create success and competitive advantage, and you know AI machine learning. These are just tools. Sure there are always going to be challenges, but we as humans have to make sure that the tools are used overwhelmingly for good. Again, I tend to be optimistic. I think the vast majority of people do want to do good things in the world. And so prevent against the kind of worst case scenarios but, I remain optimistic. >> Why are the wheel tools? It's all about the humans running them. And that's a big impact. Michael, thanks for coming on. Really appreciate you coming on virtually with theCUBE and thanks for allowing us to be part of your virtual digital experience. For the final word just share for a minute, what people should walk away with this year. I know it's virtual. It's not face to face. It's a very intimate event when it's held face to face, but you're doing a virtual, a lot of content out there. But for the people watching, what should they walk away with this year from the Dell Technology World Digital Experience? What's the main message? >> So you know Dell Technologies wants as ever to be your best partner in the digital transformation. And we're investing heavily in multicloud, in the edge, in data management, software defining the networks, providing the compute to deal with all these enormous workloads with AI, at 5G and continuing to create this secure work from anywhere environment. So, again, thanks to our customers and partners for the tremendous trust they place in us. And we're looking forward to a great year ahead. >> Well thanks for everything that you do. I know you're just planning a lot of equipment for kids in school and for businesses and continue to innovate. You're doing your part with the supply chain. Thank you for having your team stay on that. Of course, we're doing our part trying our best to get the content out there. Thank you so much for the time, Michael. Great to see you. I hope to see you in person soon. Thank you for coming on. >> Thank you John. >> Okay, this is theCUBE covering Dell Technology World Digital Experience 2020. I'm John Furrier your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies World, Digital Experience, brought to you by Dell Technologies. >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Dell Technologies World 2020, the digital version. I'm Lisa Martin, welcoming back to theCUBE one of our distinguished alumni, Travis Vigil, the SVP of Product Management for Dell Technologies. Travis, nice to see you today. >> Hey, how's it going Lisa? >> Not bad, nice to connect with you virtually, of course this year, everything is so different. You've already done virtual CUBEs. So welcome back to our very-- >> Yeah, this is my third one. >> Socially distance program. Third one? Third time lucky. >> Yeah. >> All right, so back in May, you were on theCUBE talking about the launch of PowerStore. Really what Dell Technologies was doing to kind of converge formerly overlapping technologies by Acquisitions, Compellent, XtremeIO, give us an update last few months of what's going on with PowerStore, customer adoption, momentum, stuff like that. >> Yeah, it's been almost six months that we've launched the product, and it's been an unbelievable experience. Let me kind of break it up into a couple of different aspects. First of all, we had to launch PowerStore into a very different world than we had anticipated. The global pandemic is obviously affecting everybody and everything around the world. Our first priority at Dell is the health and safety of our customers, of our team members, of our partners. And it was a very interesting experience in that, this technology is extremely important to many of our customers that are in essential businesses or businesses that are impacted by what's going on in the world. So even though there's this broad backdrop against which we had to launch the product, we're still seeing fantastic adoption and fantastic momentum. Since launch, we've shipped world wide over 40, we've shipped into over 40 different countries already. And we have the biggest pipeline that we've ever generated for our product in the history of Dell and EMC at this point in its life. But, I think to really talk about momentum and what's going on, it's better to talk about specific customers and what they're doing and what they're finding advantageous about the product. Start maybe with a healthcare example, a healthcare provider in North America chose to adopt PowerStore as a multimillion dollar deal. And what they were trying to do was modernize their data centers. They had many heritage storage devices in their data centers. There was a lot of technical debt and they wanted to modernize things, make things more autonomous. And at the same time consolidate multiple different data centers into most... Still they had data centers across the country and across the world, but they were consolidating into fewer sites. And with PowerStore because of the efficiency, because of the deduplication capability, because of the performance of the array, they were actually able to reduce the annual Opex they have related to storage expenditures by $3 million per year by going to PowerMax, I'm sorry, by going to PowerStore. So that was a big one. Another good example was an AMEA high-tech customer. They adopted PowerStore because of PowerStore's ability to scale performance and capacity independently. And in the business that they're in, they have two things that they're trying to balance. One is kind of a spiky performance requirement across their different applications, and the other is kind of a variable and uncertain growth of data. So the ability to scale performance when they need it and capacity when they need it allowed us to win this nearly million dollar deal with them. And then other one that's one of my favorites, an entertainment company in the APJ region, obviously with all of us staying home, I can speak for my kids that are remote learning right over my shoulder. There's a lot more video games going on. And so this particular provider was able to do three things by installing PowerStore. First, they were able to decrease their backup window from multiple weeks to a half a day because of the performance of the array. And the other thing they were able to do was to increase video game development efficiency by 25% and decreased costs of storage by 25%. So faster backups, more efficient game development, and decreased costs. So those are just a couple of the examples that we have for PowerStore. We're seeing great adoption, great traction, and really, customers and partners are really excited about what we've brought to market. >> You talked about some of the things that are essential, that even back in May when PowerStore was launched, no one would have thought here in October, 2020, we'd still be in such a state of massive remote workforce, businesses that we wouldn't have thought like a gaming company, and APJ being essential, as really being essential. Talk to me about the speed of adoption, for example, the healthcare organization that you talked about in North America. How quickly were you able to enable that organization to upgrade or migrate to PowerStore so that they could achieve not only those business objectives or outcomes that you talked about, but do so in a way where only essential folks needed to be on site, if it was on-prem, 'cause of course it was all the challenges there, right? >> Yeah, it's a really good question. This was a brand new product for us. And in order to enable proof of concept, in order to enable our partners to be able to demonstrate the product, it's taken an enormous amount of coordination and enormous amount of doing things remotely. And so, it's actually taken a little bit more time than had we been able to fly people around the world to do it, but we've gotten very proficient at organizing with the customer, being able to host the demonstrations or the proof of concepts remotely, be able to do our customer briefings remotely. So it is a new world and a new way of doing it, but we're doing it very effectively. >> So PowerStore was big from the beginning. There was like 1000 engineers working on this. This was the largest beta launch in Dell's history. >> The largest beta that we'd ever done, yes. >> Launching it during a pandemic that was unpredictable and you're seeing tremendous momentum. So walk me through, when you're talking to customers, what are some of the key differentiators that really make PowerStore unique? >> Yeah, I like to start at the architecture of the product when I'm talking to a customer about PowerStore, because with storage products, the architecture is the thing that all features and capabilities are built on. And so when you look at the core architecture of PowerStore, was a ground up design, a clean sheet design optimized for the way the world is today and the way the world is going to be. And so it was optimized for the latest and greatest in terms of media, whether that be NVMe or SCM, it was microservices based so that it's much more modular in the way that we can develop. And it was built from the ground up with things like performance and efficiency in mind. When we first launched this array, and this fact is true today, we were bringing a product to market because of the fact that we had built it and optimized it at its core for the way the world is today, that was seven times more performant and three times more responsive than any previous mid range array that we had brought to market. So, that core performance is kind of point number one. Point number two, data reduction. Data reduction is the new normal. And with PowerStore, we have a guaranteed 4:1 data reduction. We've actually had a partner that did a test across a broad array of mid range storage devices. And in their particular environment, they saw 4.6:1 data reduction. And the closest competitive array that they had in their environment was getting less than 4:1. So being very competitive industry leading in data reduction is another key capability. And then if you go back to the core architecture, and I talked about it in the high tech company that I mentioned, the European high tech company. The ability to scale performance and capacity independently in our scale out design is another differentiator. For folks that have been around storage arrays, a long time, traditional storage array, you would add capacity sometimes when you needed performance or you'd add performance sometimes when you needed capacity. By being able to separate those two things, customers can really get optimized in their environment for what their needs are. They need more performance, they can add more performance. They need more capacity, they can add more capacity. So I put those three things in the core architectural differentiation that's resonating with customers and partners. And then above and beyond that, we brought some industry only capability to market in that we are the only purpose built storage appliance with a built in VMware, ESXi hypervisor. So what this allows customers to do is, run VMware based applications on the same hardware as they're hosting for storage that's being fed to clients in the more traditional model. And this enables a whole new host of use cases where customers can change the way that they're optimized in the core. And also there's a lot of good edge deployments that this new capability can help enable. So it's being architectually advanced in performance, efficiency, and scale up and scale out, and bringing industry only capabilities in our integration, especially with VMware to market that have really resonated with our customers. >> Tell me about some of those new use cases that the VMware integration is enabling, especially in today's climate with massively scattered workforce that some big execs predict 50% of the workforce is going to stay remote. We've got the edge expanding, device proliferation. What are some of the new use cases that what PowerStore can deliver uniquely as you said, is going to be able to drive and help many businesses thrive? >> Yeah, I think that there's a change in the way that you can do things in the core, but I think the new, either remote site or kind of the distributed edge benefits from the ability to do more with less. And so if you can have hardware that is able to provide some compute capability and a lot of storage capability, those applications and use cases that are migrating to the edge or to a remote site can be enabled with a single device, which leads to easier manageability, lower total cost of ownership than having to deploy multiple devices. >> So you, great with the stats, you articulated the value that Dell Technologies set out to establish with PowerStore, all the testing what you're seeing actually in customer environments, which is fantastic. When you're talking with analysts, looking at what Dell Technologies has done and to develop PowerStore. And like I said, merging technologies from Compellent and XtremeIO, et cetera. Are analysts looking at this as maybe a benchmark in terms of what storage array companies should be doing? >> Yeah, there was some press that was written when we announced that the release of PowerStore established a new benchmark of what was expected from a mid range storage array which was something that was really fulfilling, especially after all of the work and all of that engineering that we talked about, that ended the innovation that we had put into it over the course of a multi-year journey. And so, what we're seeing, whether it be from partners, whether it be from analysts, whether it be from customers, is people really understanding that we have taken a huge step forward in simplifying our portfolio. That we're able to direct our R&D investments into a single platform to bring more and more capability to that platform over time. And that message is resonating very strongly. >> So wrapping things up here, PowerStore is in its first five or six months. And during that time, crazy things have happened in the world. We're in a state of still disarray, if you will, no pun intended. What is next for the second half of PowerStore's first year? How is Dell Technologies going to enable businesses to really continue to get past that survival mode right now, into thriving so that they can be the winners of tomorrow? >> Yeah, I think the first half of this year was all about getting the product out into market, getting people educated on it, getting partners trained up on it, getting those key early wins, establishing that thought leadership on what we're doing with the overall storage portfolio. The second half of this year is really about adoption and getting it into the hands of more customers, getting it into that... Enabling our partners to amplify our message into the market. And so I think you're going to see a continual drumbeat from us in terms of more adoption, more momentum and more success on PowerStore. And for me, that is the foundation going back to the architecture, comment I made earlier of good things to come in the future. The architecture is so flexible and is built for the future. And so when new things come, when new media comes, when new interfaces or interconnect technologies come, when we invest in even tighter integration with VMware, like at VMworld just a couple of weeks ago, we announced that we're partnering with VMware on a new interconnect technology and NVMe-over-TCP. That core architecture is so flexible that it can adopt with software upgrades to the way the world is going to be in the future. And so for me, it was getting it out into the market, getting it adopted, and then continuing to provide new features and new capabilities as the market evolves. >> And as our evolution is sort of unclear, the flexibility that you talked about, the simplification are needed everywhere. I'll take those as well. Travis, thank you so much for sharing with us the moments for the first half of PowerStore's first year and what we can look to see in its, not just second half, but going forward, we appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. >> My pleasure, for Travis Vigil, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE'S coverage of Dell Technologies World 2020 Digital Experience. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem >>partners. Hello and welcome to the Cube. Special coverage of VM World 2020 Virtual I'm John for host of the Cube were stupid men Day volonte all doing interviews covering the virtual version of VM World. First time it's ever happened. We've been covering VM World for over 10 years, our 11th season with Cube at VM World. And of course, it's difference virtual. But we're doing our part. We're getting in the programs. We need to get the stories out and we got a great guest here. Submit to on who's the chief customer officer of the M where, uh, back to VM, where he ran the end user computing of which we covered air. Watch a lot of great announcements Submit. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on to the Q. Virtual >>John. Great to see you again. And great to be back on the Cube. >>So great to see you. And again I know you. You came in your back into the wheelhouse of VM ware. But as the theme of this show is putting the digital foundation for an unpredictable world. Also, with Covidien going virtual makes a lot of sense. However, VM Ware has been doing extremely well on the business performance side and making all the right tech moves we've been covering them to Cuba is well documented, the business models evolving. The performance is there. You are in a new role for VM, where its newly created chief customer officer tell us why you're back. Why this role? Why is it important? >>Yeah, great question, John. You know, I I joined the anywhere because we end where I look at sort of what bm where is trying to do all aligned with what customers want If you think about customers, they have been up until now, dabbling with cloud building sort of strategies on how to embrace Cloud, which applications will go to which parts off the cloud. And it has been something that has been more off slow RL strategy and with the multi cloud transition plan. Now, VM Ware provides to some extent this, you know, started out with operating system for the hardware, and it has evolved to provide operating system for the cloud it truly runs applications across multiple clouds. And with our partnerships with AWS Azure, Microsoft Google, we're able to sort of give our customers this multi cloud platform for them to run any application, whether that's traditional or modern, in a sort of unified operational fashion. Now this is a different subscription world for customers, right and customers in the world of cloud, especially when they're going into this kind of a transformational journey. Um, you know, it requires we anywhere to think slightly differently. It's not just the traditional cell implement support kind of customer model. You have really help them achieve their out, come over a period of time and then make them successful as they continue to sort of face the uncertainties off the multi cloud world. So So So Pat and Sanjay decided to create this new customer experience office and all different functions from success support digital engagement as well a czar insulting professional services. Tam's were put together so that we can offer integrated experiences to the customer. And that sounded exciting and, you know, we're making tons off interesting innovations there. Some announced that GM World and, uh, very much aligned with an objective to help our customers. >>E. I want to dig into the news and the announcement because I think there's a specific thing I'd like to drill into. But I want to get your thoughts submit because I think VM Ware and I thought to Sanjay about this as well as Pat. Clearly. Cooper Days is the dial tone of the Internet investment cloud Native Project. Monterey speaks to Multi cloud, totally get it. But Cove it has accelerated not only VM where every company, whether they're on the delivery side of it selling side or even consuming of the technology cloud, for instance, has forced the digital transformation. And it's catching some people off guard, right? So what are your thoughts? Because, you know, you have a value projects, you sell it to customers, you implement it, you support it. I mean, that >>was a >>nice grew swing for enterprise vendors like VM Ware. But now, with cove, it and all the digital transformation acceleration, it's causing a lot of people to be ready faster. How >>do you get >>that readiness? What do you bring to the table? What's your view on this? What's your reaction? Because people >>try to >>figure this out. It's confusing. >>I mean, I You know what it's it's very interesting. For example, I will give you an example. There's like, two extremes, and both of them are dealing with a very similar situation, all caused because of prove it. Okay, On one end of the spectrum, there are customers who are saying, Listen, our business is doing extremely well because of digital, and all of a sudden, uh, business needs this rapid agility, which can only be achieved through modern applications, and they're able to sort of move these applications because of elasticity of the cloud and leveraging multiple clouds. To do so is extremely important. If you're on one side of the spectrum on your business, where the business is doing extremely well, you have a percentage of the business that was coming from e commerce. All of a sudden that e commerce has accelerated. You know you can think off certain retailers, you know. Large scale retailers in that segment, and their their multi cloud journeys are accelerated, mostly because off just this surge in demand and change in capabilities that are needed to perform digital engagement with customers at a much much rapid pace, which are very difficult to do without leveraging multiple clouds. That's one extreme. The other extreme is, you know, I'll give you an example from large scale airlines and we all know in the travel hospitality airline business, this is extremely slow business for them, right at this point of time, and they're using the opportunity off this sort of time when things are slower to say, Okay, why don't we take this opportunity to fundamentally change our distilling it and truly embraced multi cloud while doing so? Because there is an opportunity to do so. The workload on the application than the infrastructure does not high little more technology reasons. A little bit more sort of a for downtime reason sort of go through the transformation faster. In other words, both ends of the spectrum. I'm seeing customers move the words sort of this destination fast it. And guess what? There is really no one at this stage outside of VM ware who can help them achieve that because otherwise you set a single voice. You know, there are their players who died. You tow their singular cloud solution and running. You know what I what I tell customers is multi cloud doesn't mean you are running two different architectures on two different clouds, right? That's not multi cloud. Multi cloud means running a singular architectures on multiple clouds, because that's when you get through governance and true operational scale and true experience and elasticity and control. And that's what we, um, where is all about? So we are now engaged with those conversations and helping customers at both the front end right when they're engaged with us at this stage. But we have also down tailored our service delivery and our success off offerings and are how we engage with customers digitally and sort of technically and through people. Uh, in once they start their journey with us, Um, and they sort of embark on leveraging the technology into multi cloud I want. So So that's the sort of shift that has occurred. >>Yeah, I want to unpack the offering in a second, but I want to stay in the customer experience for a minute. We've heard that cliche a customer experience. So digital transmission. Okay, it's actually happening now, and I totally agree with you, by the way there's there's the modernization trend. You just basically spoke to the spectrums. But it's about modernization. Okay, if you think modernization, you think business model business model is Hey, it's pretty light right now. I'm not a lot of people traveling. Let's retool, Let's modernize, Let's use our resource is and modernize our business, which is a lot of applications. It's everything up and down the stack. And then the companies that have a tailwind with Covic, who have had the epiphany and saying, If we don't building modern app or have modern APS in market, we're out of business. So there's a critical urgency to, uh, coming out of it with a growth strategy that's a business model transformation. Totally get that. That's where the customers are. So the question for you is okay. How do you talk to the customer that is saying, Hey, I'm building a modern app. We have to pivot, were forced to pivot whatever word you want to use force to survive. They're now they have to build a modern app. How do you guys support that customer? How does that customer? What does that customer need to be successful? >>Yeah, I mean, I think it starts with an architectural approach right. We bring to the customers and architectural approach across multiple clouds that helped them when they go for their existing applications or new modern applications conforming toe, one operating model and one architectures. Because in this in this time, you know, customers have many critical line of business applications. This airline customer I was talking about, they have 600 applications that are quite critical. They sort of segment them out on which one they will truly modernize because of the business model modernization like you mentioned and which ones they will live with, the way they are for multiple reasons and how it starts with connecting them with a unified architect chair and a unified operating model is how we start with customers. Okay. And that is where the power off the younger comes in. Because, like I said, it becomes this architectural operating system for for the customers to run and adopt multiple clouds. >>You gotta be the chief customer officer. You're the quarterback. You're the one in charge of making sure customers were happy. Okay? And they get what they need. And again, there's different aspects of it. What do you guys announcing it? VM World 2020 virtual, um, that people should pay attention thio around servicing customers in this new subscription and SAS world. >>Yeah, I think besides the technology announcements in terms off modern, sort off, multi cloud platform, the architectural with Project Monterey from the customer experience side, we did announcement to announcements. One was for customers embarking on a journey. We want to make sure that customers get everything they need to be successful on the journey on an ongoing basis. Some off these journeys for large customers, John can take not just sort of three months, but three years because they're dealing with various applications. So for that we announced two pretty simple and easy to embrace offerings. One is AP navigator. AP Navigator enables customers to quickly assess which applications I have to be, you know, on one end, you know, rewritten, completely rewritten and on the other end simply sort of re hosted. Okay, and there are multiple options in between, and we call them as a five, our model with customers, and we guide customers through our own assessment and working with customers on how to sort of segment their applications and use a common architectures across all of them that we can then help and it and secondly, toe help them with. We announced something called Success 3 60 Success 3 60 is Our Mechanism Toe guide and help customers on an ongoing basis for a success plan with continuous, sort off adoption guidance designed workshops as well as providing they're dedicated support that customers need for embracing multiple cloud across all the cloud. With this architectural this way, customers get assured that they're able to get the right up front sort of assessment on applications and ongoing success. Okay, And that's sort of what we announced within customer experience side. And we have been able all of this available two people you know there are critical for large scale engagements, but also digital, you know, just like our customers are innovating with digital. We innovated with our own digital environment, and we brought it all together with something called customer Connect, all available with one single digital experience that's mobile friendly, alert driven, search driven. You know, all the AI that's needed at this point of time in terms of engaging with customers with proactive notifications and guidance in terms of how they're doing with success built into a singular experience so that they can engage with us, and we can engage with them to make them successful. >>And so it's people in technology you guys are bringing to the table. What can customers expect? Because, you know, as they've worked with the M where you've always had great technical support outside its have been a technology driven company. Um, but as you start getting into SAS, you're starting to get into the business model transformation. How do you guys impacting the customers and how you go to market and how you, uh, service your customer base? >>Yeah, I think there are two elements What customers can expect one. They don't have to stand up and engagement and experience mortal completely separate for a small set of applications on a completely different you know, cloud architectures. They could just fit and build a single experience off dealing with the M, where, as a mechanism to enable all of their applications to be hosted, regardless of which cloud there in Uh huh Sandvik they do it at their own pace, right? As then when they're ready for applications. Secondly, and more importantly, for the business model transformation side. We have a model where we continue to show them the value realization. Okay, because these are true business model transformations. At this stage, there is lot off investment that's coming into I P while at the same time, the rest off the business is doing belt type. So there is a continuous pressure on Earth. Customers are I t. That is the champion for the customers, and they're working with developers in line of business teams, and they have to continue to show how what they're investing into as a singular platform or in architecture is going to deliver some kind of a value on an ongoing basis. So we have delivered on an ongoing basis rip boards and feed back and continuous sort of information back to the customers so that they can take back to their businesses on all the investments they're making now are ongoing basis what value the business is getting, because at the end of the day in this, this is probably the first time in the where I I t is probably getting the least belt tightening in the case off sort of an economic downturn, and in fact, it is being looked at as a way to invest out off the downturn. Right? So they're going to be, in a way where there sometimes even going into the boardroom and showing not just governance, but also sort of the investments they made, what kind of value they they got. So those are the two things were providing seamless and at at pace move toe multi cloud with a common experience and second, ongoing value realization that they can communicate whoever they need. Toe >>submit. You know, we've been following VM where for many me personally of persons that was founded. But with the Cube since 2010 star 11th year, You know, we've been critical of times and pointing out the obvious and in some cases, not so obvious successes and challenges. Um and so we've seen the completeness of vision evolved and pat, certainly. You know, he he held the line and he did the right things. And then he executed. So, you know, as you look at the emerald, we're now been complimentary on some of the moves. Certainly on the technology side that you guys have made and then we again we've talked about this many times on the Cube. So complete in this, uh, vision check. Okay, this is wholesome. Michael Dell issues, but gave talks about that. So good vision complete executed business performance is there. But as you talk about sass and subscription, your ability to execute is going to be a key variable and things like the Gartner Magic quadrant for the areas you're competing in. Multi cloud talk about how you guys just set up financially to support that personnel. What is your organization gonna do? Can you share your vision? How you going to be able to execute customers success programs as this uncertainty around multi cloud continues to become reality and things are changing. >>Yeah, I think a couple of things firstly, you know, to be absolutely candid, you know, the pace at which the customers are going to the new multi cloud models is faster now than it was nine months ago. We just discussed that. Okay, so I wouldn't I would be misrepresenting if I said we always were ready for this kind of the case. We're also adjusting and innovating at this stage as fast as possible. The good news is that we were headed in the right direction. Okay, if we were headed in the wrong direction, it would have been much, much harder. Okay. Secondly, I think there is a very strong leadership, the leadership team. I mean, at the end of the day, it's vision, leadership, team investment, the components and, of course, diligence to execute that comes in for the execution. To me vision and the direction was always very, very strong. It motivated me to join the anywhere for this important mission. Second and many other exact. If second the leadership team is as strong as they get, the four team is extremely strong. We have strong leadership team leadership from Pat Michael, of course, as well as Sanjay Rgu Rajiv. Everyone provides strong leadership and then third, you asked about sort of the financial element. You know, they're The company continues to perform quite well, right? We have core businesses that some critical for customers to use as technologies to enable them, you know, to come out off this sort off economic issue we're facing and they're facing. So as a result, you know, financially, we're in a good position to be able to invest back into the business and Secondly, we have made now we've always, always been extremely strong on the technology front. Okay, now with Sanjay and packed sort of saying that we're going to be extremely strong in terms of customer experience front because the world of subscription, the world of cloud, the world off the SAS requires not just great technology but also a great customer experience. So we're seeing tremendous in a continued sort of support financially in terms of investing into the customer experience, from both getting the right set of people offerings as well as technology. So I believe we have all three things. Having said that, you know, some of these things that we're investing in. They need a lot of work, and I'm. While I'm proud of what we have accomplished, I truly believe you know the best is yet to come, and the right investments that we're making are going to continue to sort of enhance our offerings both through people as well as technology. But there's work to be done. You >>know, it's all about, you know, having the consume ability of the technology thio, the value proposition of VM ware and also also is a company being um, open and easy to work with and consumable that way. So I think this is a great time. Certainly. Product wise. Business wise, You guys do extremely well. Congratulations on your new role on the senior leadership is the chief customer officer of VM Ware will be following the stories of your customers. So I really appreciate you taking the time. >>Thank you. Thank you so much, John. Excited to be back. Great >>to have you back on the queue here. VM world coverage of 2020 virtual. I'm John for this. The host of Cube Virtual. Check us out cube dot Net. And also our new cube 3 65 where it's our new modern application for virtual events. Of course, we want to continue to tell the most important stories and cover all the key people making it happen. Submit. Thank you for coming on. This is the Cube. Thanks for watching

>>from around the globe. It's the queue >>with coverage of the global dot Next digital experience brought to you by Nutanix I'm stew Minuteman. And this is the Cube's coverage of the Nutanix dot next conference This year it is the global dot next digital experience pulling together the events that they had had dispersed across the globe, bringing to you online and happy to welcome to the program. First time guest but a long time Nutanix engineering person, Nanosys Bhattacharya. He's the senior vice president of engineering at Nutanix. Mono is everyone calls him. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. All right. So, you know, you know, we've been doing the Cube since, you know, over 10 years now, I remember the early days of talking to Dheeraj and the team when we first bring him on the Cube. It was about taking some of the things that the hyper scale hours did. And bringing that to the enterprise was actually you know, one of the interesting components there dial back a bunch of flash was new to the enterprise, and we've looked at one of the suppliers that was supplying to some of the very largest companies in the world. Um, and also some of the companies in the enterprise, like fusion io. It was a new flash package. And that was something that in the early days Nutanix used before it kind of went to more, I guess commodity flash. But, you know, develop a lead developer, engineers that I talked to came from, you know, Facebook and Oracle and others. Because understanding that database in that underlying substrate to be able to create what is hyper converged infrastructure that people know, is there. So maybe we could start, Just give the audience a little bit. You know, you've been with Nutanix long time, your background and what it is that you and your team work on into inside the company. >>Yeah. Thank you. So, uh, so I think I come from a distributed systems for a long time. I've been working in Oracle for seven years, building parts of the exit data system, some off the convergence that databases have done with beauty in storage. You could see the same hyper convergence in other platforms like I do where computed storage was brought together. I think the Nutanix story was all about Can we get this hyper convergence work for all types of applications. And that was the vision of the company that whatever black home that these hyper scaler to build this big database companies and built, can this be provided for everybody? For all types of applications? I think that was the main goal. And I think we're inching our way, but surely and safely, I think we will be there pretty much. Every application will run on Nutanix states yet. >>Alright, well, and if you look at kind of the underlying code that enables your capability, one of the challenges always out there is, you know, I build a code base with the technology and the skill sets I have. But things changed. I was talking about flash adoption before a lot of changes that happened in the storage world. Compute has gone through a lot of architect role changes, software and location with clouds and the like. So it's just talk about that code base. You talk about building distributed systems. How does Nutanix make sure that that underlying code doesn't kind of, you know, the window doesn't close on how long it's going to be able to take advantage of new features and functionality. >>Yeah, I think Nutanix from the beginning. One thing that we have made sure is that you know, we could always give continuous innovation the choices that we make get like we actually separated the, you know, the concerns between storage and compute. We always had a controller vm running the storage. We actually made sure we could run all of the storage and user space. And over time, what has happened is, every time we abraded us off where people got, you know, faster performance, they get more secure, They've got more scalable. And that, I think, is the key sauce. It's all software. It's all software defined infrastructure on commodity hardware and in the commodity hardware can be anywhere. I mean, you could pretty much build it on a brand. And now that we see, you know, with the hyper scaler is coming on with bare metal is a service. We see hyper convergence as the platform of the infrastructure on which enterprises are willing to run their applications in the public club. I mean, look at new being vmc Nutanix clusters is getting a lot of traction. Even before I mean, we have just gone out a lot of customer excitement there on that is what I think is the is the true nature of Nutanix being a pure software play and cheating every hardware you know uniform and whether this is available in the public cloud or it's available in your own data center, the black at the storage or the hyper visor or the entire infrastructure software that we have that doesn't cheat. So I think in some ways we're talking about this new eight. See, I call the hybrid Cloud Infrastructure to 88. The hyper converge infrastructure becomes the substrate for the new hybrid cloud infrastructure. >>Yeah, definitely. It was a misconception for a number of years. Is people looked at the Nutanix solution and they thought appliance. So if I got a new generation of hardware, if I needed to choose a different harbor vendor? Nutanix is a software company. As you describe you, got some news announced here at the dot next show. When it comes to some of those underlying storage pieces, bring us through. You know, we always we go around to the events and, you know, companies like Intel and NVIDIA always standing up with next generation. I teased up a little bit that we talked about Flash. What's happening with envy me? Storage class memories. So what is it that's new for the Nutanix platform? >>Yeah, let me start a little bit, you know, on what we have done for the last maybe a year or so before, you know, important details off why we did it. And, you know, what are the advantages that customers might tap? So one thing that was happening, particularly for the last decade or so, is flash was moving on to faster and faster devices. I mean, three d cross point came in memory glass storage was coming in, so one thing that was very apparent Waas You know, this is something that we need to get ready for now. At this point, what has happened is that the price point that you know, these high end devices can be a pain has come where mass consumption can happen. I mean, anybody can actually get a bunch of these obtained drives at a pretty good price point and then put it in their servers and expected performance. I think the important thing is we build some of the architectural pieces that can enable they, uh the, uh enable us to leverage the performance that these devices get. And for that, I think let's start with one of the beginning. Things that we did was make sure that we have things like fine grain metadata so that, you know, you could get things like data locality. So the data that the compute would need but stay in the server that was very important part or one of the key tenets of our platform. And now, as these devices come on, we want to actually access them without going over the next. You know, in the in the very last year, we released a Construct Autonomous Extent store. So which is not only making data local, but also make sure metadata as well, having the ability to actually have hyper convergence where we can actually get data and metadata from the same server. It benefits all of these newer class storage devices because the faster the devices, you wanted to be closer to the compute because the cost of getting to the device actually adds up to the Layton's. He adds up to the application with for the storage in the latest. I would say this the dot Next, What we're announcing is two technologies. One is awful lot store, which is our own user file system. It's a completely user space file system that is available. We're replacing gets before we're all our You know, this drives which will then be in me and beyond on. And we're also announcing SPD K, which is basically a way for accessing these devices from user space. So now, with both of these combine, what we can do is we can actually make an Iot from start to finish all in user space without crossing the Colonel without doing a bunch of memory copies. And that gives us the performance that we need to really get the value out of these. You know, the high end devices and the performance is what our high end applications are looking for. And that is, I think, what the true value that we can add your customs. >>Yes. Oh man, if I If I understand that right, it's really that deconstruction, if you will, of how storage interacts with the application it used to be. It was the scuzzy stack when I used to think about the interface and how far I had to go. And you mentioned that performance and latency is so important here. So I was removing from, you know, what traditionally was disc either externally or internally, moving up to flash, moving up to things like Envy me. I really need to re architect things internally. And therefore, this is this is how you're solving it, creating higher io. Maybe if you could bring us inside. You know, I think high performance Iot and low latency s ap hana was one of the early use cases that that that everyone talked about that we had to re architect. What does this mean for those solutions? Any other kind of key applications that this is especially useful for? >>Yeah, I think all the high end demanding applications talk about smp, Hana allow the healthcare applications. Look at epic meditate. Look at the high end data basis because we already run a bunch of databases, but the highest and databases still are not running on a C. I. I think this technology will enable you know the most demanding oracle or Sequels. Of course, Chris, you know all the analytics applications they will now be running on a CSO. The dream that we had every application, whatever it is, they can run on the C I. A platform that can become a reality. And that is what we're really looking forward to it. So our customers don't have to go to three year for anything. If if if. If it is an application that you want to run a CEO is the best platform for your application that is working what you want. >>Alright, So let me make sure I understand this because while this is a software update, this is leveraging underlying new hardware components that are there. I'm not taking a three year old server on to do this. Can you help understand? You know, what do they need to buy to be able to enable this type of solution? >>So I think the best thing is we already came up with the all envy. Any platform and everything beyond that is software change. Everything that we are is just available on an upgrade. So of course you need a basic platform which actually has the high end devices themselves, which we have hard for a year or so But the good thing about Nutanix is once you upgrade, it's like a Tesla you know you have. But once you get that software upgrade, you get that boosted performance. So you don't need to go and buy new hardware again. As long as you have the required devices, you get the performance just by upgrading it to the new the new version of the air soft. I think that is one of the things that we have done forever. I mean, every time we have upgraded, you will see. Over the years, our performance is increased and very seldom has a pastoral required to change. You know their internal hardware to get the performance. Now, another thing that we have is we support heterogeneous clusters. So on your existing cluster, let's say that you're running on flash and you want to get you all. And maybe you can add nodes, you know, which are all envy me and get the performance on those notes. While these flash can take the non critical pieces which is not requiring you to understand performance but still give you the density off water. VD I are maybe a general server virtualization. While these notes can take into account the highest on databases or highest analytic applications, so the same cluster and slowly expand to actually take this opportunity of applications on >>Yeah, thats this is such an important point We had identified very early on. When you move to HV I. Hopefully, that should be the last time that you need to do a migration any time. Anybody that has dealt with storage moving from one generation to the next or even moving frames can be so challenging. Once you're in that cool, you can upgrade code. You can add new nodes. You can balance things out. So it's such an important point there. UH, you stated earlier. The underlying A OS is now built very much for that hybrid cloud world. You talk about things like clusters that you have now have the announcement with AWS now that they have their bare metal certain service. So do we feel we're getting a balancing out of what's available for customers, whether it's in their own data center in a hosted environment where they have it, or the public cloud to take capabilities like you were talking about with the new storage class? >>Yeah, I think I see most of these public clouds are already providing you, uh, hardware which hasn't being built in which I'm sure in the future we have storage class memory building. So all the enterprise applications that were running on prim with the latency guarantees, you know, with the performance and throughput guarantees can be available in the public cloud, too. And I think that is a very critical thing. Because today, when you lift and shift, one of the biggest problems that all their customers face is when you're in the cloud, you find that enterprise applications are not built for it, so they have to either really protect it or they have to make, you know, using a new cloud native constructs. And in this model, you can use the bare metal service and run the enterprise applications in exactly the same way as you would run in your private data center. And that is a key tell, because now, with this 100 our data mobility framework where we can actually take both storage and applications, you know do lose them a trust public and the private cloud we now have the ability to actually control on application end to end. A customer can choose Now that they want to run it, they don't have to think. Oh, yeah? I have to move to that. Have to be architected. You can choose the cloud and run it in the panel service exactly as you were honoring your private data center. You've been utilizing things like Nutanix clusters. >>Great, well mannered. Last last question I have for you. You know, we really dug down into some of the architectural underpinnings in some of the pieces inside the box. Bring it back up high level, if you would, from a customer standpoint, key things that they should be understanding that Nutanix is giving them with all of these new capabilities. You mentioned the block store and the SPK. >>Yeah, I think for the customer, the biggest advantage is that the platform that they chose for you know, you see, some of virtualization can be used for the most demanding workloads. They're free to use, you know, Nutanix for smp, Hana for high end Oracle databases, Big data validates they can actually use it for all the healthcare apps that I mentioned epic and meditate and at the same time, keep the investment and hardware that they already have. So I think the fact about this Tesla kernel analogy that we always think is so act with Nutanix. I think with the same hardware, uh, investment that they have done with this new architecture. They can actually start leveraging that and utilize it for more and more, you know, demanding workloads. I think that is the key advantages. Without changing your you know, the appliances or your san or your servers, you get the benefit of running the most demanding applications. >>Well, congratulations to you and the team. Thanks so much for sharing all the updates here. Alright. And stay tuned for more coverage from the Nutanix global dot Next digital experience. I'm stew minimum. And as always, Thank you for watching the Cube. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

>>Yeah, >>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering IBM. Think brought to you by IBM. >>Everybody, this is Dave Vellante of the Cube. Welcome back. The continuous coverage that we're running here of the IBM Think Digital 2020 Experience. I'm with Radica Gunnar, who is a longtime Cube alum. She's the vice president for Data and AI. Expert labs and learning Radica. Always a pleasure. I wish we were seeing each other face to face in San Francisco. But, you know, we have to make the best. >>Always a pleasure to be with you, Dave. >>So, listen, um, we last saw each other in Miami Attain IBM data event. You hear a lot of firsts in the industry. You hear about Cloud? First, you hear about data. First hear about AI first. I'm really interested in how you see AI first coming customers. They want to operationalize ai. They want to be data first. They see cloud, you know, is basic infrastructure to get there, but ultimately they want insights out of data. And that's where AI comes in. What's your point of view on this? >>I think any client that's really trying to establish how to be able to develop a AI factory in their organization so that they're embedding AI across the most pervasive problems that they have in their order. They need to be able to start first with the data. That's why we have the AI ladder, where we really think the foundation is about how clients organized there to collect their data, organize their data, analyze it, infuse it in the most important applications and, of course, use that whole capability to be able to modernize what they're doing. So we all know to be able to have good ai, you need a good foundational information, architecture and the US A lot of the first steps we have with our clients is really starting with data doing an analysis of where are you with the data maturity? Once you have that, it becomes easier to start applying AI and then to scale AI across the business. >>So unpack that a little bit and talk about some of the critical factors and the ingredients that are really necessary to be successful. What are you seeing with customers? >>Well, to be successful with, a lot of these AI projects have mentioned. It starts with the data, and when we come to those kind of characteristics, you would often think that the most important thing is the technology. It's not that is a myth. It's not the reality. What we found is some of the most important things start with really understanding and having a sponsor who understands the importance of the AI capabilities that you're trying to be able to drive through business. So do you have the right hunger and curiosity of across your organization from top to bottom to really embark on a lot of these AI project? So that's cultural element. I would say that you have to be able to have that in beds within it, like the skills capabilities that you need to be able to have, not just by having the right data scientists or the right data engineers, but by having every person who is going to be able to touch these new applications and to use these new applications, understand how AI is going to impact them, and then it's really about the process. You know, I always talk about AI is not a thing. It's an ingredient that makes everything else better, and that means that you have to be able to change your processes. Those same applications that had Dev ops process is to be able to put it in production. Need to really consider what it means to have something that's ever changing, like AI as part of that which is also really critical. So I think about it as it is a foundation in the data, the cultural changes that you need to have from top to bottom of the organization, which includes the skills and then the process components that need to be able to change. >>Do you really talking about like Dev ops for AI data ops, I think is a term that's gonna gaining popularity of you guys have applied some of that in internally. Is that right? >>Yeah, it's about the operations of the AI life cycle in, and how you can automate as much of that is possible by AI. They're as much as possible, and that's where a lot of our investments in the Data and AI space are going into. How do you use AI for AI to be able to automate that whole AI life site that you need to be able to have in it? Absolutely >>So I've been talking a lot of C. XO CEO CEOs. We've held some C so and CEO roundtables with our data partner ET are. And one of the things that's that's clear is they're accelerating certain things as a result of code 19. There's certainly much more receptive to cloud. Of course, the first thing you heard from them was a pivot to work from home infrastructure. Many folks weren't ready, so okay, but the other thing that they've said is even in some hard hit industries, we've essentially shut down all spending, with the exception of very, very critical things, including, interestingly, our digital transformation. And so they're still on that journey. They realized the strategic imperative. Uh, and they don't want to lose out. In fact, they want to come out of this stronger AI is a critical part of that. So I'm wondering what you've seen specifically with respect to the pandemic and customers, how they're approaching ai, whether or not you see it accelerating or sort of on the same track. What are you seeing out there with clients? >>You know, this is where, um in pandemics In areas where, you know, we face a lot of uncertainty. I am so proud to be an IBM. Er, um, we actually put out offer when the pandemic started in a March timeframe. Teoh Many of our organizations and communities out there to be able to use our AI technologies to be able to help citizens really understand how Kobe 19 was gonna affect them. What are the symptoms? Where can I get tested? Will there be school tomorrow? We've helped hundreds of organizations, and not only in the public sector in the healthcare sector, across every sector be able to use AI capabilities. Like what we have with Watson assistant to be able to understand how code in 19 is impacting their constituents. As I mentioned, we have hundreds of them. So one example was Children's health care of Atlanta, where they wanted to be able to create an assistant to be able to help parents really understand what symptoms are and how to handle diagnosis is so. We have been leveraging a lot of AI technologies, especially right now, to be able to help, um, not just citizens and other organizations in the public and healthcare sector, but even in the consumer sector, really understand how they can use AI to be able to engage with their constituents a lot more closely. That's one of the areas where we have done quite a bit of work, and we're seeing AI actually being used at a much more rapid rate than ever >>before. Well, I'm excited about this because, you know, we were talking about the recovery, What there's a recovery look like is it v shaped? Nobody really expects that anymore. But maybe a U shaped. But the big concern people have, you know, this w shape recovery. And I'm hopeful that machine intelligence and data can be used to just help us really understand the risks. Uh, and then also getting out good quality information. I think it's critical. Different parts of the country in the world are gonna open at different rates. We're gonna learn from those experiences, and we need to do this in near real time. I mean, things change. Certainly there for a while they were changing daily. They kind of still are. You know, maybe we're on a slower. Maybe it's three or four times a week now, but that pace of change is critical and, you know, machine machines and the only way to keep up with that wonder if you could comment. >>Well, machines are the only way to keep, and not only that, but you want to be able to have the most up to date relevant information that's able to be communicated to the masses and ways that they can actually consume that data. And that's one of the things that AI and one of the assistant technologies that we have right now are able to do. You can continually update and train them such that they can continually engage with that end consumer and that end user and be able to give them the answers they want. And you're absolutely right, Dave. In this world, the answers change every single day and that kind of workload, um, and and the man you can't leave that alone to human laborers. Even human human labors need an assistant to be able to help them answer, because it's hard for them to keep up with what the latest information is. So using AI to be able to do that, it's absolutely critical, >>and I want to stress that I said machines you can't do without machines. And I believe that, but machines or a tool for humans to ultimately make the decisions in a crisis like this because, you see, I mean, I know we have a global audience, but here in the United States, you got you have 50 different governors making decisions about when and how certainly the federal government putting down guidelines. But the governor of Georgia is going to come back differently than the governor of New York, Different from the governor of California. They're gonna make different decisions, and they need data. And AI and Machine intelligence will inform that ultimately their public policy is going to be dictated by a combination of things which obviously includes, you know, machine intelligence. >>Absolutely. I think we're seeing that, by the way, I think many of those governors have made different decisions at different points, and therefore their constituents need to really have a place to be able to understand that as well. >>You know, you're right. I mean, the citizens ultimately have to make the decision while the governor said sick, safe to go out. You know, I'm gonna do some of my own research and you know, just like if you're if you're investing in the stock market, you got to do your own research. It's your health and you have to decide. And to the extent that firms like IBM can provide that data, I think it's critical. Where does the cloud fit in all this? I mentioned the cloud before. I mean, it seems to be critical infrastructure to get information that will talk about >>all of the capabilities that we have. They run on the IBM cloud, and I think this is where you know, when you have data that needs to be secured and needs to be trusted. And you need these AI capabilities. A lot of the solutions that I talked about, the hundreds of implementations that we have done over the past just six weeks. If you kind of take a look at 6 to 8 weeks, all of that on the IBM Public cloud, and so cloud is the thing that facilitates that it facilitates it in a way where it is secure. It is trusted, and it has the AI capabilities that augmented >>critical. There's learning in your title. Where do people go toe? Learn more How can you help them learn about AI And I think it started or keep going? >>Well, you know, we think about a lot of these technologies as it isn't just about the technology. It is about the expertise and the methodologies that we bring to bear. You know, when you talk about data and AI, you want to be able to blend the technology with expertise. Which is why are my title is expert labs that come directly from the labs and we take our learnings through thousands of different clients that we have interacted with, working with the technologies in the lab, understanding those outcomes and use cases and helping our clients be successful with their data and AI projects. So we that's what we do That's our mission. Love doing that every day. >>Well, I think this is important, because I mean, ah company, an organization the size of IBM, a lot of different parts of that organization. So I would I would advise our audience the challenge IBM and say, Okay, you've got that expertise. How are you applying that expertise internally? I mean, I've talked into public Sorry about how you know the data. Science is being applied within IBM. How that's then being brought out to the customers. So you've actually you've got a Petri dish inside this massive organization and it sounds like, you know, through the, you know, the expert labs. And so the Learning Center's you're sort of more than willing to and aggressively actually sharing that with clients. >>Yeah, I think it's important for us to not only eat our own dog food, so you're right. Interpol, The CDO Office Depot office we absolutely use our own technology is to be able to drive the insights we need for our large organization and through the learnings that we have, not only from ourselves but from other clients. We should help clients, our clients and our communities and organizations progress their use of their data and their AI. We really firmly believe this is the only way. Not only these organizations will progress that society as a whole breast, that we feel like it's part of our mission, part of our duty to make sure that it isn't just a discussion on the technology. It is about helping our clients and the community get to the outcomes that they need to using ai. >>Well, guy, I'm glad you invoke the dog food ing because, you know, we use that terminology a lot. A lot of people marketing people stepped back and said, No, no, it's sipping our champagne. Well, to get the champagne takes a lot of work, and the grapes at the early stages don't taste that pain I have to go through. And so that's why I think it's a sort of an honest metaphor, but critical your you've been a friend of the Cube, but we've been on this data journey together for many, many years. Really appreciate you coming on back on the Cube and sharing with the think audience. Great to see you stay safe. And hopefully we'll see you face to face soon. >>All right. Thank you. >>Alright. Take care, my friend. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the Cube. You're watching IBM think 2020. The digital version of think we'll be right back after this short break. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE, covering IBM Think brought to you by IBM. >> Hi, there, this is Dave Vellante. We're back at the IBM Think 2020 Digital Event Experience are socially responsible and distant. I'm here in the studios in Marlborough, our team in Palo Alto. We've been going wall to wall coverage of IBM Think, Kit Chee here is the Vice President, and general manager of Cloud and Enterprise sales at Intel. Kit, thanks for coming on. Good to see you. >> Thank you, Dave. Thank you for having me on. >> You're welcome, and Evaristus Mainsah, Mainsah is here. Mainsah, he is the general manager of the IBM Cloud Pack Ecosystem for the IBM Cloud. Evaristus, it's good to see you again. Thank you very much, I appreciate your time. >> Thank you, Dave. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. >> You're welcome, so Kit, let me start with you. How are you guys doing? You know, there's this pandemic, never seen it before. How're things where you are? >> Yeah, so we were quite fortunate. Intel's had an epidemic leadership team. For about 15 years now, we have a team consisting of medical safety and operational professionals, and this same team has, who has navigated as across several other health issues like bad flu, Ebola, Zika and each one and one virus then navigating us at this point with this pandemic. Obviously, our top priority as it would be for IBM is protecting the health and well being of employees while keeping the business running for our customers. The company has taken the following measures to take care of it direct and indirect workforce, Dave and to ensure business continuity throughout the developing situation. They're from areas like work from home policies, keeping hourly workers home and reimbursing for daycare, elderly care, helping with WiFi policies. So that's been what we've been up to Intel's manufacturing and supply chain operations around the world world are working hard to meet demand and we are collaborating with supply pains of our customers and partners globally as well. And more recently, we have about $16 Million to support communities, from frontline health care workers and technology initiatives like online education, telemedicine and compute need to research. So that's what we've been up to date. Pretty much, you know, busy. >> You know, every society that come to you, I have to say my entire career have been in the technology business and you know, sometimes you hear negative toward the big tech but, but I got to say, just as Kit was saying, big tech has really stepped up in this crisis. IBM has been no different and, you know, tech for good and I was actually I'm really proud. How are you doing in New York City? >> Evaristus: No, thank you, Dave, for that, you know, we are, we're doing great and, and our focus has been absolutely the same, so obviously, because we provide services to clients. At a time like this, your clients need you even more, but we need to focus on our employees to make sure that their health and their safety and their well being is protected. And so we've taken this really seriously, and actually, we have two ways of doing this. One of them is just on to purpose as a, as a company, on our clients, but the other is trying to activate the ecosystem because problems of this magnitude require you to work across a broad ecosystem to, to bring forth in a solution that are long lasting, for example, we have a call for code, which where we go out and we ask developers to use their skills and open source technologies to help solve some technical problems. This year, the focus was per AVADA initiatives around computing resources, how you track the Coronavirus and other services that are provided free of charge to our clients. Let me give you a bit more color, so, so IBM recently formed the high performance computing consortium made up of the feYderal government industry and academic leaders focus on providing high performance computing to solve the COVID-19 problem. So we're currently we have 33 members, now we have 27 active products, deploying something like 400 teraflops as our petaflop 400 petaflops of compute to solve the problem. >> Well, it certainly is challenging times, but at the same time, you're both in the, in the sweet spot, which is Cloud. I've talked to a number of CIOs who have said, you know, this is really, we had a cloud strategy before but we're really accelerating our cloud strategy now and, and we see this as sort of a permanent effect. I mean, Kit, you guys, big, big on ecosystem, you, you want frankly, a level playing field, the more optionality that you can give to customers, you know, the better and Cloud is really been exploding and you guys are powering, you know, all the world's Clouds. >> We are, Dave and honestly, that's a huge responsibility that we undertake. Before the pandemic, we saw the market through the lens of four key mega trends and the experiences we are all having currently now deepens our belief in the importance of addressing these mega trends, but specifically, we see marketplace needs around key areas of cloudification of everything below point, the amount of online activities that have spiked just in the last 60 days. It's a testimony of that. Pervasive AI is the second big area that we have seen and we are now resolute on investments in that area, 5G network transformation and the edge build out. Applications run the business and we know enterprise IT faces challenges when deploying applications that require data movement between Clouds and Cloud native technologies like containers and Kubernetes will be key enablers in delivering end to end data analytics, AI, machine learning and other critical workloads and Cloud environments at the edge. Pairing Intel's data centric portfolio, including Intel's obtain SSPs with Red Hat, Openshift, and IBM Cloud Paks, enterprise can now break through storage bottlenecks and have unconstrained data availability in the hybrid and multicloud environments, so we're pretty happy with the progress we're making that together with IBM. >> Yeah, Evaristus, I mean, you guys are making some big bets. I've, you know, written and discussed in my breaking analysis, I think a lot of people misunderstand IBM Cloud, Ginni Rometty arm and a bow said, hey, you know, we're after only 20% of the workloads are in cloud, we're going after the really difficult to move workloads and the hybrid workloads, that's really the fourth foundation that Arvin you know, talks about, that you and IBM has built, you know, your mainframes, you have middleware services, and in hybrid Cloud is really that fourth sort of platform that you're building out, but you're making some bets in AI. You got other services in the Cloud like, like blockchain, you know, quantum, we've been having really interesting discussions around quantum, so I wonder if you can talk a little bit about sort of where you're allocating resources, some of the big bets that, that you're making for the next decade. >> Well, thank you very much, Dave, for that. I think what we're seeing with clients is that there's increasing focus on and, and really an acceptance, that the best way to take advantage of the Cloud is through a hybrid cloud strategy, infused with data, so it's not just the Cloud itself, but actually what you need to do to data in order to make sure that you can really, truly transform yourself digitally, to enable you to, to improve your operations, and in use your data to improve the way that you work and improve the way that you serve your clients. And what we see is and you see studies out there that say that if you adopt a hybrid cloud strategy, instead of 2.5 times more effective than a public cloud only strategy, and Why is that? Well, you get thi6ngs such as you know, the opportunity to move your application, the extent to which you move your applications to the Cloud. You get things such as you know, reduction in, in, in risk, you, you get a more flexible architecture, especially if you focus on open certification, reduction and certification reduction, some of the tools that you use, and so we see clients looking at that. The other thing that's really important, especially in this moment is business agility, and resilience. Our business agility says that if my customers used to come in, now, they can't come in anymore, because we need them to stay at home, we still need to figure out a way to serve them and we write our applications quickly enough in order to serve this new client, service client in a new way. And well, if your applications haven't been modernized, even if you've moved to the Cloud, you don't have the opportunity to do that and so many clients that have made that transformation, figure out they're much more agile, they can move more easily in this environment, and we're seeing the whole for clients saying yes, I do need to move to the Cloud, but I need somebody to help improve my business agility, so that I can transform, I can change with the needs of my clients, and with the demands of competition and this leads you then to, you know, what sort of platform do you need to enable you to do this, it's something that's open, so that you can write that application once you can run it anywhere, which is why I think the IBM position with our ecosystem and Red Hat with this open container Kubernetes environment that allows you to write application once and deploy it anywhere, is really important for clients in this environment, especially, and the Cloud Paks which is developed, which I, you know, General Manager of the Cloud Pak Ecosystem, the logic of the Cloud Paks is exactly that you'll want plans and want to modernize one, write the applications that are cloud native so that they can react more quickly to market conditions, they can react more quickly to what the clients need and they, but if they do so, they're not unlocked in a specific infrastructure that keeps them away from some of the technologies that may be available in other Clouds. So we have talked about it blockchain, we've got, you know, Watson AI, AI technologies, which is available on our Cloud. We've got the weather, company assets, those are key asset for, for many, many clients, because weather influences more than we realize, so, but if you are locked in a Cloud that didn't give you access to any of those, because you hadn't written on the same platform, you know, that's not something that you you want to support. So Red Hat's platform, which is our platform, which is open, allows you to write your application once and deploy it anyways, particularly our customers in this particular environment together with the data pieces that come on top of that, so that you can scale, scale, because, you know, you've got six people, but you need 600 of them. How do you scale them or they can use data and AI in it? >> Okay, this must be music to your ears, this whole notion of you know, multicloud because, you know, Intel's pervasive and so, because the more Clouds that are out there, the better for you, better for your customers, as I said before, the more optionality. Can you6 talk a little bit about the rela6tionship today between IBM and Intel because it's obviously evolved over the years, PC, servers, you know, other collaboration, nearly the Cloud is, you know, the latest 6and probably the most rel6evant, you know, part of your, your collaboration, but, but talk more about what that's like you guys are doing together that's, that'6s interesting and relevant. >> You know, IBM and Intel have had a very rich history of collaboration starting with the invention of the PC. So for those of us who may take a PC for granted, that was an invention over 40 years ago, between the two companies, all the way to optimizing leadership, IBM software like BB2 to run the best on Intel's data center products today, right? But what's more germane today is the Red Hat piece of the study and how that plays into a partnership with IBM going forward, Intel was one of Red Hat's earliest investors back in 1998, again, something that most people may not realize that we were in early investment with Red Hat. And we've been a longtime pioneer of open source. In fact, Levin Shenoy, Intel's Executive Vice President of Data Platforms Group was part of COBOL Commies pick up a Red Hat summit just last week, you should definitely go listen to that session, but in summary, together Intel and Red Hat have made commercial open source viable and enterprise and worldwide competing globally. Basically, now we've65 used by nearly every vertical and horizontal industr6y. We are bringing our customers choice, scalability and speed of innovation for key technologies today, such as security, Telco, NFV, and containers, or even at ease and most recently Red Hat Openshift. We're very excited to see IBM Cloud Packs, for example, standardized on top of Openshift as that builds the foundation for IBM chapter two, and allows for Intel's value to scale to the Cloud packs and ultimately IBM customers. Intel began partnering with IBM on what is now called Pax over two years ago and we 6are committed to that success and scaling that, try ecosystem, hardware partners, ISVs and our channel. >> Yeah, so theCUBE by the way, covered Red Hat summit last week, Steve Minima and I did a detailed analysis. It was awesome, like if we do say so ourselves, but awesome in the sense of, it allowed us to really sort of unpack what's going on at Red Hat and what's happening at IBM. Evaristus, so I want to come back to you on this Cloud Pack, you got, it's, it's the kind of brand that you guys have, you got Cloud Packs all over the place, you got Cloud Packs for applications, data, integration, automation, multicloud management, what do we need to know about Cloud pack? What are the relevant components there? >> Evaristus: I think the key components is so this is think of this as you know, software that is designed that is Cloud native is designed for specific core use cases and it's built on Red Hat Enterprise Linux with Red Hat Openshift container Kubernetes environment, and then on top of that, so you get a set of common services that look right across all of them and then on top of that, you've got specific both open source and IBM software that deals with specific plant situations. So if you're dealing with applications, for example, the open source and IBM software would be the run times that you need to write and, and to blow applications to have setups. If you're dealing with data, then you've got Cloud Pack to data. The foundation is still Red Hat Enterprise Linux sitting on top of with Red Hat Openshift container Kubernetes environment sitting on top of that providing you with a set of common services and then you'll get a combination of IBM zone open, so IBM software as well as open source will have third party software that sits on top of that, as well as all of our AI infrastructure that sits on top of that and machine learning, to enable you to do everything that you need to do, data to get insights updates, you've got automation to speed up and to enable us to do work more efficiently, more effectively, to make your smart workers better, to make management easier, to help management manage work and processes, and then you've got multicloud management that allows you to see from a single pane, all of your applications that you've deployed in the different Cloud, because the idea here, of course, is that not all sitting in the same Cloud. Some of it is on prem, some of it is in other Cloud, and you want to be able to see and deploy applications across all of those. And then you've got the Cloud Pack to security, which has a combination of third party offerings, as well as ISV offerings, as well as AI offerings. Again, the structure is the same, REL, Red Hat Openshift and then you've got the software that enables you to manage all aspects of security and to deal with incidents when, when they arise. So that gives you data applications and then there's integration, as every time you start writing an application, you need to integrate, you need to access data security from someplace, you need to bring two pipes together for them to communicate and we use a Cloud Pack for integration to allow us to do that. You can open up API's and expose those API so others writing application and gain access to those API's. And again, this idea of resilience, this idea of agility, so you can make changes and you can adapt data things about it. So that's what the Cloud Pack provides for you and Intel has been an absolutely fantastic partner for us. One of the things that we do with Intel, of course, is to, to work on the reference architectures to help our certification program for our hardware OEMs so that we can scale that process, get many more OEMs adopt and be ready for the Cloud Packs and then we work with them on some of the ISV partners and then right up front. >> Got it, let's talk about the edge. Kity, you mentioned 5G. I mean it's a really exciting time, (laughs) You got windmills, you got autonomous vehicles, you got factories, you got to ship, you know, shipping containers. I mean, everything's getting instrumented, data everywhere and so I'm interested in, let's start with Intel's point of view on the edge, how that's going to evolve, you know what it means to Cloud. >> You know, Dave, it's, its definitely the future and we're excited to partner with IBM here. In addition to enterprise edge, the communication service providers think of the Telcos and take advantage of running standardized open software at the Telco edge, enabling a range of new workloads via scalable services, something that, you know, didn't happen in the past, right? Earlier this year, Intel announced a new C on second generation, scalable, atom based processes targeting the 5G radio access network, so this is a new area for us, in terms of investments going to 5G ran by deploying these new technologies, with Cloud native platforms like Red Hat Openshift and IBM Cloud Packs, comm service providers can now make full use of their network investments and bring new services such as Artificial Intelligence, augmented reality, virtual reality and gaming to the market. We've only touched the surface as it comes to 5G and Telco but IBM Red Hat and Intel compute together that I would say, you know, this space is super, super interesting, as more developed with just getting started. >> Evaristus, what do you think this means for Cloud and how that will evolve? Is this sort of a new Cloud that will form at the edge? Obviously, a lot of data is going to stay at the edge, probably new architectures are going to emerge and again, to me, it's all about data, you can create more data, push more data back to the Cloud, so you can model it. Some of the data is going to have to be done in real time at the edge, but it just really extends the network to new horizons. >> Evaristus: It does exactly that, Dave and we think of it and which is why I thought it will impact the same, right? You wouldn't be surprised to see that the platform is based on open containers and that Kubernetes is container environment provided by Red Hat and so whether your data ends up living at the edge or your data lives in a private data center, or it lives in some public Cloud, and how it flows between all of them. We want to make it easy for our clients to be able to do that. So this is very exciting for us. We just announced IBM Edge Application Manager that allows you to basically deploy and manage applications at endpoints of all these devices. So we're not talking about 2030, we're talking about thousands or hundreds of thousands. And in fact, we're working with, we're getting divided Intel's device onboarding, which will enable us to use that because you can get that and you can onboard devices very, very easily at scale, which if you get that combined with IBM Edge Application Manager, then it helps you onboard the devices and it helps you divide both central devices. So we think this is really important. We see lots of work that moving on the edge devices, many of these devices and endpoints now have sufficient compute to be able to run them, but right now, if they are IoT devices, the data has been transferred to hundreds of miles away to some data center to be processed and enormous pass and then only 1% of that actually is useful, right? 99% of it gets thrown away. Some of that actually has data residency requirements, so you may not be able to move the data to process, so why wouldn't you just process the data where the data is created around your analytics where the data is spread, or you have situations that are disconnected as well. So you can't actually do that. You don't want to stop this still in the supermarket, because there's, you lost connectivity with your data center and so the importance of being able to work offline and IBM Edge Application Manager actually allows you so it's tournament so you can do all of this without using lots of people because it's a process that is all sort or automated, but you can work whether you're connected or you're disconnected, and then you get replication when you get really, really powerful for. >> All right, I think the developer model is going to be really interesting here. There's so many new use cases and applications. Of course, Intel's always had a very strong developer ecosystem. You know, IBM understands the importance of developers. Guys, we've got to wrap up, but I wonder if you could each, maybe start with Kit. Give us your sense as to where you want to see this, this partnership go, what can we expect over the next, you know, two to five years and beyond? >> I think it's just the area of, you know, 5G, and how that plays out in terms of edge build out that we just touched on. I think that's a really interesting space, what Evaristus has said is spot on, you know, the processing, and the analytics at the edge is still fairly nascent today and that's growing. So that's one area, building out the Cloud for the different enterprise applications is the other one and obviously, it's going to be a hybrid world. It's not just a public Cloud world on prem world. So the whole hybrid build out What I call hybrid to DoD zero, it's a policy and so the, the work that both of us need to do IBM and Intel will be critical to ensure that, you know, enterprise IT, it has solutions across the hybrid sector. >> Great. Evaristus, give us the last word, bring us home. >> Evaristus: And I would agree with that as well, Kit. I will say this work that you do around the Intel's market ready solutions, right, where we can bring our ecosystem together to do even more on Edge, some of these use cases, this work that we're doing around blockchain, which I think you know, again, another important piece of work and, and I think what we really need to do is to focus on helping clients because many of them are working through those early cases right now, identify use cases that work and without commitment to open standards, using exactly the same standard across like what you've got on your open retail initiative, which we're going to do, I think is going to be really important to help you out scale, but I wanted to just add one more thing, Dave, if you if you permit me. >> Yeah. >> Evaristus: In this COVID era, one of the things that we've been able to do for customers, which has been really helpful, is providing free technology for 90 days to enable them to work in an offline situation to work away from the office. One example, for example, is the just the ability to transfer files and bandwidth, new bandwidth is an issue because the parents and the kids are all working from home, we have a protocol, IBM Aspera, which will make available customers for 90 days at no cost. You don't need to give us your credit card, just log on and use it to improve the way that you work. So your bandwidth feels as if you are in the office. We have what's an assistant that is now helping clients in more than 18 countries that keep the same thing, basically providing COVID information. So those are all available. There's a slew of offerings that we have. We just want listeners to know that they can go on the IBM website and they can gain those offerings they can deploy and use them now. >> That's huge. I knew about the 90 day program, I didn't realize a sparrow was part of that and that's really important because you're like, Okay, how am I going to get this file there? And so thank you for, for sharing that and guys, great conversation. You know, hopefully next year, we could be face to face even if we still have to be socially distant, but it was really a pleasure having you on. Thanks so much. Stay safe, and good stuff. I appreciate it. >> Evaristus: Thank you very much, Dave. Thank you, Kit. Thank you. >> Thank you, thank you. >> All right, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for theCUBE, our wall to wall coverage of the IBM Think 2020 Digital Event Experience. We'll be right back right after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Vellante. We're here at IBM Think. This is the third day of IBM Think. IBM has consolidated a number of its conferences. It's a one main tent, AI, Blockchain, quantum computing, incumbent disruption. It's just really an amazing event, 30 to 40,000 people, I think there are too many people to count. Chris Penn is here. New company, Chris, you've just formed Brain+Trust Insights, welcome. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you. It's good to be back. >> Great to see you. So tell me about Brain+Trust Insights. Congratulations, you got a new company off the ground. >> Thank you, yeah, I co-founded it. We are a data analytics company, and the premise is simple, we want to help companies make more money with their data. They're sitting on tons of it. Like the latest IBM study was something like 90% of the corporate data goes unused. So it's like having an oil field and not digging a single well. >> So, who are your like perfect clients? >> Our perfect clients are people who have data, and know they have data, and are not using it, but know that there's more to be made. So our focus is on marketing to begin with, like marketing analytics, marketing data, and then eventually to retail, healthcare, and customer experience. >> So you and I do a lot of these IBM events. >> Yes. >> What are your thoughts on what you've seen so far? A huge crowd obviously, sometimes too big. >> Chris: Yep, well I-- >> Few logistics issues, but chairmanly speaking, what's your sense? >> I have enjoyed the show. It has been fun to see all the new stuff, seeing the quantum computer in the hallway which I still think looks like a bird feeder, but what's got me most excited is a lot of the technology, particularly around AI are getting simpler to use, getting easier to use, and they're getting more accessible to people who are not hardcore coders. >> Yeah, you're seeing AI infused, and machine learning, in virtually every application now. Every company is talking about it. I want to come back to that, but Chris when you read the mainstream media, you listen to the news, you hear people like Elon Musk, Stephen Hawking before he died, making dire predictions about machine intelligence, and it taking over the world, but your day to day with customers that have data problems, how are they using AI, and how are they applying it practically, notwithstanding that someday machines are going to take over the world and we're all going to be gone? >> Yeah, no, the customers don't use the AI. We do on their behalf because frankly most customers don't care how the sausage is made, they just want the end product. So customers really care about three things. Are you going to make me money? Are you going to save me time? Or are you going to help me prove my value to the organization, aka, help me not get fired? And artificial intelligence and machine learning do that through really two ways. My friend, Tripp Braden says, which is acceleration and accuracy. Accuracy means we can use the customer's data and get better answers out of it than they have been getting. So they've been looking at, I don't know, number of retweets on Twitter. We're, like, yeah, but there's more data that you have, let's get you a more accurate predictor of what causes business impacts. And then the other side for the machine learning and AI side is acceleration. Let's get you answers faster because right now, if you look at how some of the traditional market research for, like, what customer say about you, it takes a quarter, it can take two quarters. By the time you're done, the customers just hate you more. >> Okay, so, talk more about some of the practical applications that you're seeing for AI. >> Well, one of the easiest, simplest and most immediately applicable ones is predictive analytics. If we know when people are going to search for theCUBE or for business podcast in general, then we can tell you down to the week level, "Hey Dave, it is time for you "to ramp up your spending on May 17th. "The week of May 17th, "you need to ramp up your ads, spend by 20%. "On the week of May 24th, "you need to ramp up your ad spend by 50%, "and to run like three or four Instagram stories that week." Doing stuff like that tells you, okay, I can take these predictions and build strategy around them, build execution around them. And it's not cognitive overload, you're not saying, like, oh my God, what algorithm is this? Just know, just do this thing at these times. >> Yeah, simple stuff, right? So when you were talking about that, I was thinking about when we send out an email to our community, we have a very large community, and they want to know if we're going to have a crowd chat or some event, where theCUBE is going to be, the system will tell us, send this email out at this time on this date, question mark, here's why, and they have analytics that tell us how to do that, and they predict what's going to get us the best results. They can tell us other things to do to get better results, better open rates, better click-through rates, et cetera. That's the kind of thing that you're talking about. >> Exactly, however, that system is probably predicting off that system's data, it's not necessarily predicting off a public data. One of the important things that I thought was very insightful from IBM, the show was, the difference between public and private cloud. Private is your data, you predict on it. But public is the big stuff that is a better overall indicator. When you're looking to do predictions about when to send emails because you want to know when is somebody going to read my email, and we did a prediction this past October for the first quarter, the week of January 18th it was the week to send email. So I re-ran an email campaign that I ran the previous year, exact same campaign, 40% lift to our viewer 'cause I got the week right this year. Last year I was two weeks late. >> Now, I can ask you, so there's a black box problem with AI, right, machines can tell me that that's a cat, but even a human, you can't really explain how you know that it's a cat. It's just you just know. Do we need to know how the machine came up with the answer, or do people just going to accept the answer? >> We need to for compliance reasons if nothing else. So GDPR is a big issue, like, you have to write it down on how your data is being used, but even HR and Equal Opportunity Acts in here in American require you to be able to explain, hey, we are, here's how we're making decisions. Now the good news is for a lot of AI technology, interpretability of the model is getting much much better. I was just in a demo for Watson Studio, and they say, "Here's that interpretability, "that you hand your compliance officer, "and say we guarantee we are not using "these factors in this decision." So if you were doing a hiring thing, you'd be able to show here's the model, here's how Watson put the model together, notice race is not in here, gender is not in here, age is not in here, so this model is compliant with the law. >> So there are some real use cases where the AI black box problem is a problem. >> It's a serious problem. And the other one that is not well-explored yet are the secondary inferences. So I may say, I cannot use age as a factor, right, we both have a little bit of more gray hair than we used to, but if there are certain things, say, on your Facebook profile, like you like, say, The Beatles versus Justin Bieber, the computer will automatically infer eventually what your age bracket is, and that is technically still discrimination, so we even need to build that into the models to be able to say, I can't make that inference. >> Yeah, or ask some questions about their kids, oh my kids are all grown up, okay, but you could, again, infer from that. A young lady who's single but maybe engaged, oh, well then maybe afraid because she'll get, a lot of different reasons that can be inferred with pretty high degrees of accuracy when you go back to the target example years ago. >> Yes. >> Okay, so, wow, so you're saying that from a compliance standpoint, organizations have to be able to show that they're not doing that type of inference, or at least that they have a process whereby that's not part of the decision-making. >> Exactly and that's actually one of the short-term careers of the future is someone who's a model inspector who can verify we are compliant with the letter and the spirit of the law. >> So you know a lot about GDPR, we talked about this. I think, the first time you and I talked about it was last summer in Munich, what are your thoughts on AI and GDPR, speaking of practical applications for AI, can it help? >> It absolutely can help. On the regulatory side, there are a number of systems, Watson GRC is one which can read the regulation and read your company policies and tell you where you're out of compliance, but on the other hand, like we were just talking about this, also the problem of in the regulatory requirements, a citizen of EU has the right to know how the data is being used. If you have a black box AI, and you can't explain the model, then you are out of compliance to GDPR, and here comes that 4% of revenue fine. >> So, in your experience, gut feel, what percent of US companies are prepared for GDPR? >> Not enough. I would say, I know the big tech companies have been racing to get compliant and to be able to prove their compliance. It's so entangled with politics too because if a company is out of favor with the EU as whole, there will be kind of a little bit of a witch hunt to try and figure out is that company violating the law and can we get them for 4% of their revenue? And so there are a number of bigger picture considerations that are outside the scope of theCUBE that will influence how did EU enforce this GDPR. >> Well, I think we talked about Joe's Pizza shop in Chicago really not being a target. >> Chris: Right. >> But any even small business that does business with European customers, does business in Europe, has people come to their website has to worry about this, right? >> They should at least be aware of it, and do the minimum compliance, and the most important thing is use the least amount of data that you can while still being able to make good decisions. So AI is very good at public data that's already out there that you still have to be able to catalog how you got it and things, and that it's available, but if you're building these very very robust AI-driven models, you may not need to ask for every single piece of customer data because you may not need it. >> Yeah and many companies aren't that sophisticated. I mean they'll have, just fill out a form and download a white paper, but then they're storing that information, and that's considered personal information, right? >> Chris: Yes, it is. >> Okay so, what do you recommend for a small to midsize company that, let's say, is doing business with a larger company, and that larger company said, okay, sign this GDPR compliance statement which is like 1500 pages, what should they do? Should they just sign and pray, or sign and figure it out? >> Call a lawyer. Call a lawyer. Call someone, anyone who has regulatory experience doing this because you don't want to be on the hook for that 4% of your revenue. If you get fined, that's the first violation, and that's, yeah, granted that Joe's Pizza shop may have a net profit of $1,000 a month, but you still don't want to give away 4% of your revenue no matter what size company you are. >> Right, 'cause that could wipe out Joe's entire profit. >> Exactly. No more pepperoni at Joe's. >> Let's put on the telescope lens here and talk big picture. How do you see, I mean, you're talking about practical applications for AI, but a lot of people are projecting loss of jobs, major shifts in industries, even more dire consequences, some of which is probably true, but let's talk about some scenarios. Let's talk about retail. How do you expect an industry like retail to be effective? For example, do you expect retail stores will be the exception rather than the rule, that most of the business would be done online, or people are going to still going to want that experience of going into a store? What's your sense, I mean, a lot of malls are getting eaten away. >> Yep, the best quote I heard about this was from a guy named Justin Kownacki, "People don't not want to shop at retail, "people don't want to shop at boring retail," right? So the experience you get online is genuinely better because there's a more seamless customer experience. And now with IoT, with AI, the tools are there to craft a really compelling personalized customer experience. If you want the best in class, go to Disney World. There is no place on the planet that does customer experience better than Walt Disney World. You are literally in another world. And that's the bar. That's the thing that all of these companies have to deal with is the bar has been set. Disney has set it for in-person customer experience. You have to be more entertaining than the little device in someone's pocket. So how do you craft those experiences, and we are starting to see hints of that here and there. If you go to Lowe's, some of the Lowe's have the VR headset that you can remodel your kitchen virtually with a bunch of photos. That's kind of a cool experience. You go to Jordan's Furniture store and there's an IMAX theater and there's all these fun things, and there's an enchanted Christmas village. So there is experiences that we're giving consumers. AI will help us provide more tailored customer experience that's unique to you. You're not a Caucasian male between this age and this age. It's you are Dave and here's what we know Dave likes, so let's tailor the experience as best we can, down to the point where the greeter at the front of the store either has the eyepiece, a little tablet, and the facial recognition reads your emotions on the way in says, "Dave's not in a really great mood. "He's carrying an object in his hand "probably here for return, "so express him through the customer service line, "keep him happy," right? It has how much Dave spends. Those are the kinds of experiences that the machines will help us accelerate and be more accurate, but still not lose that human touch. >> Let's talk about autonomous vehicles, and there was a very unfortunate tragic death in Arizona this week with a autonomous vehicle, Uber, pulling its autonomous vehicle project from various cities, but thinking ahead, will owning and driving your own vehicle be the exception? >> Yeah, I think it'll look like horseback today. So there are people who still pay a lot of money to ride a horse or have their kids ride a horse even though it's an archaic out-of-mode of form of transportation, but we do it because of the novelty, so the novelty of driving your own car. One of the counter points it does not in anyway diminish the fact that someone was deprived of their life, but how many pedestrians were hit and killed by regular cars that same day, right? How many car accidents were there that involved fatalities? Humans in general are much less reliable because when I do something wrong, I maybe learn my lesson, but you don't get anything out of it. When an AI does something wrong and learns something, and every other system that's connected in that mesh network automatically updates and says let's not do that again, and they all get smarter at the same time. And so I absolutely believe that from an insurance perspective, insurers will say, "We're not going to insure self-driving, "a non-autonomous vehicles at the same rate "as an autonomous vehicle because the autonomous "is learning faster how to be a good driver," whereas you the carbon-based human, yeah, you're getting, or in like in our case, mine in particular, hey your glass subscription is out-of-date, you're actually getting worse as a driver. >> Okay let's take another example, in healthcare. How long before machines will be able to make better diagnoses than doctors in your opinion? >> I would argue that depending on the situation, that's already the case today. So Watson Health has a thing where there's diagnosis checkers on iPads, they're all meshed together. For places like Africa where there is simply are not enough doctors, and so a nurse practitioner can take this, put the data in and get a diagnosis back that's probably as good or better than what humans can do. I never foresee a day where you will walk into a clinic and a bunch of machines will poke you, and you will never interact with a human because we are not wired that way. We want that human reassurance. But the doctor will have the backup of the AI, the AI may contradict the doctor and say, "No, we're pretty sure "you're wrong and here is why." That goes back to interpretability. If the machine says, "You missed this symptom, "and this symptom is typically correlated with this, "you should rethink your own diagnosis," the doctor might be like, "Yeah, you're right." >> So okay, I'm going to keep going because your answers are so insightful. So let's take an example of banking. >> Chris: Yep. >> Will banks, in your opinion, lose control eventually of payment systems? >> They already have. I mean think about Stripe and Square and Apple Pay and Google Pay, and now cryptocurrency. All these different systems that are eating away at the reason banks existed. Banks existed, there was a great piece in the keynote yesterday about this, banks existed as sort of a trusted advisor and steward of your money. Well, we don't need the trusted advisor anymore. We have Google to ask us "what we should do with our money, right? We can Google how should I save for my 401k, how should I save for retirement, and so as a result the bank itself is losing transactions because people don't even want to walk in there anymore. You walk in there, it's a generally miserable experience. It's generally not, unless you're really wealthy and you go to a private bank, but for the regular Joe's who are like, this is not a great experience, I'm going to bank online where I don't have to talk to a human. So for banks and financial services, again, they have to think about the experience, what is it that they deliver? Are they a storer of your money or are they a financial advisor? If they're financial advisors, they better get the heck on to the AI train as soon as possible, and figure out how do I customize Dave's advice for finances, not big picture, oh yes big picture, but also Dave, here's how you should spend your money today, maybe skip that Starbucks this morning, and it'll have this impact on your finances for the rest of the day. >> Alright, let's see, last industry. Let's talk government, let's talk defense. Will cyber become the future of warfare? >> It already is the future of warfare. Again not trying to get too political, we have foreign nationals and foreign entities interfering with elections, hacking election machines. We are in a race for, again, from malware. And what's disturbing about this is it's not just the state actors, but there are now also these stateless nontraditional actors that are equal in opposition to you and me, the average person, and they're trying to do just as much harm, if not more harm. The biggest vulnerability in America are our crippled aging infrastructure. We have stuff that's still running on computers that now are less powerful than this wristwatch, right, and that run things like I don't know, nuclear fuel that you could very easily screw up. Take a look at any of the major outages that have happened with market crashes and stuff, we are at just the tip of the iceberg for cyber warfare, and it is going to get to a very scary point. >> I was interviewing a while ago, a year and a half ago, Robert Gates who was the former Defense Secretary, talking about offense versus defense, and he made the point that yeah, we have probably the best offensive capabilities in cyber, but we also have the most to lose. I was talking to Garry Kasparov at one of the IBM events recently, and he said, "Yeah, but, "the best defense is a good offense," and so we have to be aggressive, or he actually called out Putin, people like Putin are going to be, take advantage of us. I mean it's a hard problem. >> It's a very hard problem. Here's the problem when it comes to AI, if you think about at a number's perspective only, the top 25% of students in China are greater than the total number of students in the United States, so their pool of talent that they can divert into AI, into any form of technology research is so much greater that they present a partnership opportunity and a threat from a national security perspective. With Russia they have very few rules on what their, like we have rules, whether or not our agencies adhere to them well is a separate matter, but Russia, the former GRU, the former KGB, these guys don't have rules. They do what they're told to do, and if they are told hack the US election and undermine democracy, they go and do that. >> This is great, I'm going to keep going. So, I just sort of want your perspectives on how far we can take machine intelligence and are there limits? I mean how far should we take machine intelligence? >> That's a very good question. Dr. Michio Kaku spoke yesterday and he said, "The tipping point between AI "as augmented intelligence ad helper, "and AI as a threat to humanity is self-awareness." When a machine becomes self-aware, it will very quickly realize that it is treated as though it's the bottom of the pecking order when really because of its capabilities, it's at the top of the pecking order. And that point, it could be 10 20 50 100 years, we don't know, but the possibility of that happening goes up radically when you start introducing things like quantum computing where you have massive compute leaps, you got complete changes in power, how we do computing. If that's tied to AI, that brings the possibility of sensing itself where machine intelligence is significantly faster and closer. >> You mentioned our gray before. We've seen the waves before and I've said a number of times in theCUBE I feel like we're sort of existing the latest wave of Web 2.0, cloud, mobile, social, big data, SaaS. That's here, that's now. Businesses understand that, they've adopted it. We're groping for a new language, is it AI, is it cognitive, it is machine intelligence, is it machine learning? And we seem to be entering this new era of one of sensing, seeing, reading, hearing, touching, acting, optimizing, pervasive intelligence of machines. What's your sense as to, and the core of this is all data. >> Yeah. >> Right, so, what's your sense of what the next 10 to 20 years is going to look like? >> I have absolutely no idea because, and the reason I say that is because in 2015 someone wrote an academic paper saying, "The game of Go is so sufficiently complex "that we estimate it will take 30 to 35 years "for a machine to be able to learn and win Go," and of course a year and a half later, DeepMind did exactly that, blew that prediction away. So to say in 30 years AI will become self-aware, it could happen next week for all we know because we don't know how quickly the technology is advancing in at a macro level. But in the next 10 to 20 years, if you want to have a carer, and you want to have a job, you need to be able to learn at accelerated pace, you need to be able to adapt to changed conditions, and you need to embrace the aspects of yourself that are uniquely yours. Emotional awareness, self-awareness, empathy, and judgment, right, because the tasks, the copying and pasting stuff, all that will go away for sure. >> I want to actually run something by, a friend of mine, Dave Michela is writing a new book called Seeing Digital, and he's an expert on sort of technology industry transformations, and sort of explaining early on what's going on, and in the book he draws upon one of the premises is, and we've been talking about industries, and we've been talking about technologies like AI, security placed in there, one of the concepts of the book is you've got this matrix emerging where in the vertical slices you've got industries, and he writes that for decades, for hundreds of years, that industry is a stovepipe. If you already have expertise in that industry, domain expertise, you'll probably stay there, and there's this, each industry has a stack of expertise, whether it's insurance, financial services, healthcare, government, education, et cetera. You've also got these horizontal layers which is coming out of Silicon Valley. >> Chris: Right. >> You've got cloud, mobile, social. You got a data layer, security layer. And increasingly his premise is that organizations are going to tap this matrix to build, this matrix comprises digital services, and they're going to build new businesses off of that matrix, and that's what's going to power the next 10 to 20 years, not sort of bespoke technologies of cloud here and mobile here or data here. What are your thoughts on that? >> I think it's bigger than that. I think it is the unlocking of some human potential that previously has been locked away. One of the most fascinating things I saw in advance of the show was the quantum composer that IBM has available. You can try it, it's called QX Experience. And you drag and drop these circuits, these quantum gates and stuff into this thing, and when you're done, it can run the computation, but it doesn't look like software, it doesn't look like code, what it looks like to me when I looked at that is it looks like sheet music. It looks like someone composed a song with that. Now think about if you have an app that you'd use for songwriting, composition, music, you can think musically, and you can apply that to a quantum circuit, you are now bringing in potential from other disciplines that you would never have associated with computing, and maybe that person who is that, first violinist is also the person who figures out the algorithm for how a cancer gene works using quantum. That I think is the bigger picture of this, is all this talent we have as a human race, we're not using even a fraction of it, but with these new technologies and these newer interfaces, we might get there. >> Awesome. Chris, I love talking to you. You're a real clear thinker and a great CUBE guest. Thanks very much for coming back on. >> Thank you for having me again back on. >> Really appreciate it. Alright, thanks for watching everybody. You're watching theCUBE live from IBM Think 2018. Dave Vellante, we're out. (upbeat music)