>> Narrator: Live from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. Brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Docker, Docker, Docker. No, you're in the right place. This is KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2019 here in San Diego. I'm Stu Miniman kicking off three days of live, wall to wall coverage. My co-host for most of the week this week is John Troyer. Justin Warren's also in the house. He'll be hosting for me. And a big shout out to John Furrier who's back at the corporate ranch in Palo Alto keeping an eye on all the CloudNative stuff with us. The reason that I actually mentioned Docker is because it is the first thing that is on our lips this week. Just this week, Docker, which is the company that, if it wasn't for Docker, we wouldn't have 12,500 people here at this event. Really democratized containers. But the company itself built out a platform, millions and millions of companies using containers. But when the orchestration layer came in there was some contention, there's lots of politics. I'm waiting for Docker the Broadway musical to come out to talk about all the ins and outs there because Kubernetes really sucked the air out of the CloudNative world. Spawned tons of projects here. As you can see behind us, this ecosystem is massive and swelling. Last year it was 8,000 people, year before it was 4,000 people, so many people here, so. And John, so, let's start. This is your first time at this show, you've done many shows with us, definitely covered some of the cloud-native, you've worked with many of the companies that are in this ecosystem here. Give me your first impressions here of KubeCon CloudNativeCon. >> Sure, sure. Well, I mean Stu, 12,000 people, it's pretty crowded here. We're right by the t-shirt line, on day one of the conference. Look, a conference this big, especially an open source conference, there's several jobs to be done, right. This is an active set of open source projects and open source communities. So a lot of the keynote this morning was updating people on details about the latest releases, the latest features, what's in, what's out, what's going on. CNCF is a very broad umbrella for a very broad number of projects, not a coherent opinionated stack, it's a lot of different things that all contribute to a set of CloudNative technologies. So, that's job one. Job two, it's a trade show, and it's an industry show, and people are coming here to figure out how to build and learn and operate. So, that wasn't particularly well served by the keynote this morning. There was certainly a lot of hands-on this week. There's a huge number of breakouts, there's a huge number of tracks. Even day zero, which is a set of specialty breakout workshops and sessions, everything was packed. There were over a dozen of those. So, what strikes me is the breadth here is that it's a mile wide. I won't say it's an inch deep, because there's some, but it is a mile wide. >> Yeah, yeah, John you are right, there's so much going on. The day zero tracks are amazing. I think there were over two dozen, maybe even more of the sessions where, you know, half-day or full day deep dives. Even talk, there was some other small events even that went on for two or three days leading up to this. So, sprawling ecosystem. Last year at this show in Seattle, I actually said that this show is the independent cloud show that we've been looking for. John, I was at Microsoft Ignite just a couple of weeks ago, and absolutely, Satya Nadella, they're not talking about the bits and the bytes. It's a, you know, Microsoft is your trusted partner for everything you're going to do, including building 50 billion new applications. Amazon Reinvent will just be right after Thanksgiving, and we will hear a very different message from Amazon and where they play. But this is not a company, it is a lot of different projects. The CNCF is the steward of this, and so Kubernetes is the one that gets all the attention. I think for this group to even grow more, it needs to be focused more on the CloudNativeCon, because how do we do cloud-native? You know, what does that mean? We heard, you know, Sugu was up on stage talking about Vitess, and he said, look, if you bake your database directly in fully Kubernetes cloud-native, that means that when you want to move between clouds you bring your data with you. So, data, security, networking, messaging, there's so many pieces here. It's a lot of work to be done to mature this stack, but it definitely is getting more mature. You start hearing many of these projects with a million or more downloads a month. So many pieces. John, what are you looking to dig into this week, what are you most excited for, what questions do you want answered? >> Well, here on theCUBE I'm always excited when we get to talk to people in production, customers, really see what's going on. There's a lot of stuff in production right now, which is not to say a lot of stuff isn't bleeding edge, right. I hear a lot of stuff, just out of the woodwork, about things that are fragile, things that aren't ready, things that are not quite updated, and I think Kubernetes is an architectural as well as a spiritual home for everything. But there's a lot of pieces that plug in, and there are opinionated ways of doing it, there are best of breed way, there are vertically integrated stacks. What's the best approach, it's not clear to me. I mean if you have to look at it from a company perspective, who are the winners and losers, I don't think that's a very productive way of looking at it. I'm interested in some projects like, we're going to be talking with Rancher, and they've got some announcements, but I'm also interested in K3s, which is their project there. I'm been hearing some really interesting things on the storage front. You know, all these things are really necessary. It's not all just magic containers moving around. You got to actually get the bits and bytes into the right place at the right time and backed up. >> Yeah, I love that you brought up K3s. Edge is definitely something that I hear talking a lot, because if you talk about cloud-native, it's not just about public cloud. Many of these things can run in my on-premises data centers and everything like that. >> And Edge fits in all of these environments, so. Right, winners and losers, I remember two years ago, first time I got a chance to interview Kelsey Hightower, who we do have on the program. He had actually taken a couple shows off, but he's back here at the show. I said Kelsey, why are we spending so much talking about Kubernetes? Doesn't this just get baked into every platform? And he's like, yeah totally, that's not the importance of it. It's not about distributions, and not about who's who, any of the software companies, it's how do they pull all of the pieces together. How do they add value on top of it. One of the terms I've heard mentioned a lot is, we need to think a lot about day two. Heck, there was even one of the companies that was heavy in this space, Mesosphere, they renamed the company Day Two IQ, spelled D2IQ. No relation to R2D2. But you know, that's what they are focused on to help these things really go together. So yeah, we talk about multicloud, and how do I get my arms around all of these pieces, how do I manage a sprawling environment. You add Edge into it. I've got a huge surface of attack for security issues. So, John, remember cloud was supposed to be simple and cheap, and it really isn't either of those things anymore, so yeah, a lot for us to dig into. >> Yeah, it'll be an interesting mix. Developers, experts, people brand new, probably half the people here they're the first time, and people coming over from the IT space as well as people coming from the open source space and I even saw this morning this is the biggest conference I've ever been to. So it's a many, it's different parts of the elephant, I'd say. >> Yeah, absolutely. It is a good sized conference, especially for open source it probably is the largest. But Salesforce Dreamforce is going on this week, which is more than an order of magnitude bigger, so my condolences to anybody in San Francisco right now, because we know the BART and everything else completely swamped with too many people. One other thing, you know, CNCF, what's really interesting for me always is when you look at a lot of these projects, the people that we saw up on stage were companies, it was the person that oh, I started this project and I'm the technical lead on it, and that's where I'm going. We've interviewed many of the people that start these projects, and they come many times out of industry. It's not a vendor that said, hey, I built something and I'm selling it. It is companies like Uber and Lyft that said, we did things at massive scale, we had a problem, we built something, we thought it was useful for us. Open source seemed a good way to help us get broader visibility and maybe everybody could help, and other people not only pitch in, but say this is hugely valuable, and that's where we go with it. So, it's something we, a narrative I've heard for years about everybody's going to be a software company, well, almost everybody at this conference is building software. We've heard about 30 to 40% of the people attending this show are developers, and therefore many of them are going to build products. A question I have and I'll give you is, with Docker, we just kicked off talking about Docker. You know, Docker created this huge wave of what happens there, but to put it bluntly, Docker the business failed. So, they are not dead, there's the piece that's in Mirantis, there's the piece doing the developer piece. We wish all of them the best of luck, but they had the opportunity to be the next VMware, and instead they are the company that gave us this wave, but did not capitalize on it. So, I look around and I see so many companies, and you say, "Hey, what are you?" "Oh, we're the creators of X technology in this project," and my question is, are you actually going to be able to make money and do a business, or is this just something that gets fit into the overall ecosystem. John, any thoughts and advice for those kind of companies. >> Well, I mean we are here, even though there's 12,000 people here, this is still very leading edge, right. There's a lot of pieces, parts here. We're not sure how they're all going to fit together. A lot of the projects have come out of real use cases, like you say, but they're, it's commercial viability is a different beast than utility. Docker was very good at developer experience, but the DNA of actually selling an enterprise management stack is a whole different beast, and there are a lot of those too. So I mean I think a lot of the companies here may not be around, but their technologies will live on. I think if you're here, and the interviews here at the show I think will be a, you'll want to have your antenna out to see like, okay, does this give you a feeling like this is solving a real problem and is incorporated in a real ecosystem. You know, the big company, it cuts both ways, right. Some of the times those technologies get absorbed and become the standard, sometimes they disappear. So the advice is you just put one foot in front of the other and try to find people in production. That's the only way at the end of the day that you could move ahead as a small company. >> All right, John, I gave you one piece of advice when we came here and I said, you know one thing we don't talk about at this show, we don't talk about OpenStack. So, I'm going to break that rule for a second here, just 'cause I feel we have as an industry learned some of the lessons. There is some of the irrational exuberance around some of these. There's lots of money being thrown at these environments, but I do feel that we are reaching maturity and adoption so much faster, because we are not trying to replacing something. The early days of OpenStack was, you know, we're your alternative for AWS, and we're going to get you off of VMware licensing. And both of those things were, they didn't happen for the most part. And OpenStack did fit in certain environments, especially outside of North America there's lots of OpenStack deployments. The telecommunications environment OpenStack is used a bunch. Telecom, another area, talk about Edge, that plays in here and we have a number of conversations. But there are both the big and the small companies when I look at our list of people we're going to be talking on the program. You know, I love first the customers. We've got Fidelity, Bloomberg, Red Cross, and Ford Motor Company all on the program, and we've got big companies, mega giants like Cisco, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, as well as couple of companies that came out of stealth like in the last week, including Render and Chronosphere. So, you know, broad spectrum of what's going on. You've done some of the OpenStack shows with me. You've got a long community and ecosystem viewpoint, John. What do you think and what do you hear, yeah. >> You know, this is, I guess yeah, this is a next generation, you could look at it that way. Anytime you bring together one of these open source foundations, you know, it is kind of a new style of development. You do have differing agendas. People do again have to have their antenna up to see, is this person promoting this open source project and what is their commercial interest in it. Because there are different agendas here. But it looks pretty healthy. Look, there's probably a million engineers worldwide that are going to have to know the guts of Kubernetes, but it's a different job to be done than OpenStack. OpenStack community is actually, that exists, is still thriving. It is good for the job to be done there. This job to be done's a little different. I think it's going to be an engine, you know, the engine that's embedded in everything else. So there's going to be a hundred million engineers that don't need to know anything about Kubernetes, but people here are the people that pop the hood open and start to you know, mess with the carburetor and this is a carburetor show. And so for the coverage here we're going to try to up level it to talk about the business a little bit, but this feels important. It feels cross-cloud, it feels outside of any one silo, and I'm really interested to see what we're going to learn this week. >> Okay, and thank you John. I really appreciate it to get it right final. It's like what is our job here? We are an independent media organization. Yes, we did bring our own stickers here to be able to, you know, we know everybody here loves stickers, so we've got theCUBE and we've got the fun gopher one, our friends at Women Who Go that support this, because, you know, inclusion, diversity, something that this community definitely embraces, we are huge supporters of their, but right, we want to be able to give that broad viewpoint of everything. We're not going to be able to get into every project. We're not going to go as deep as the day zero content web, but give a good flavor for everything going on in the show. I've found of all the shows I've gone to in recent years, this is some of the biggest brains in the industry. There's a lot of really important stuff, so I appreciate bringing my PHD holding co-host with me, John. Looking forward to three days with you to dig into all the environment. All right, so we will be wall to wall coverage, three days. If you're at the event, we are here in the expo hall. You can't miss us, we've got the big lights right next to the CloudNativeCon store. If you're online of course reach out to us. I'm @stu, S-T-U on Twitter. He's @jtroyer, and hit us up, see us in person, come grab some stickers, let us know who you want to talk to and what question you have, and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Cube. It's the Emerald 2019 our 10th year water wall coverage. Three days, two sets, lots of content. Instrument of my co host is Justin Warren. And one of the big stories coming into the show is VM Wear actually went on an acquisition spree. A hold number of acquisitions. Boston based Carbon Black over $2 billion Pivotal brought back into the fold for also, you know, around that ballpark of money on Happy to Welcome to the program. One of those acquisitions, such and Conti, is sitting to my right. He's the co founder of Hana is also a professor at Stanford University. Thank you so much for joining us and joining us. Also for the segment. Shakeri Air, the executive vice president general manager of Telco Edge Cloud at VM Wear, Shaker said, Yes, there's a lot of acquisitions not to play favorites, but maybe this is his favorite. No question about it. All right. Eso such in, you know, boy, you know the Paolo Alto Stanford connection. We were thinking back, You know, the Founders Of'em where, of course, you know came from Stanford. Many acquisitions over the year, including the mega next era acquisition. You know, quite a few years ago, I came out of Stanford. Give us what was the genesis in the Why of Hana. >> It's actually interesting Stanford Connection to So I've been a faculty at Stanford for the last 10 years on dhe. I have seen the SD and moment very close on up front on one of the dirty secrets of S. T M says it makes the netbooks programmable, but someone still has to write the programs on. So that's usually a very complex task on the pieces beyond the company was, Can we use the eye to learn how to program the network rather than humans having to program the network to do management or optimization? So the division really waas can be built? A network that learned how to optimize itself learns how to manage itself on the technology we're building. Is this a pipeline that basically tries to deliver on that for mobile? >> It's great, Sachin, you know, my background is networking and it feels like forever. We've been hooking well. We need to get people from the cli over to the gooey. But we know in today's rightly complex world, whether it's a I or just automation, humans will not be able to keep up with it. And, you know, we know that that's where a lot of the errors would happen is when we entered humans into doing some of this. So what are some of the key drivers that make this solution possible today that, you know, it might not have been able to do done when when one train was first rolling out the first S t n? >> Yeah, talk about it in three dimensions. The one is, Why do we need it today? Right on. Then what is being what is happening that is enabling this today, right? So, apart from what I talked about Stu and I think the other big driver is, the way I like to think about it is that the Internet is going from a means of consumption to a means of control and interaction. So, increasingly, the application to BC driving the next big decade, our very way of controlling things remotely or the network like a self driving car, or be in interacting but very highly rich visual content like E. R. India. So the applications are becoming a lot more demanding on the Net. At the same time, the network is going through a phase off, opening up on becoming disaggregated network complexity is increasing significantly. So the motivation behind the company and why I thought that was the right time to start the company was these two friends are gonna collide with five coming along the applications that are driving five g and then at the complexity increasing our five. So that's why we started the company. What actually is enabling. This is the fact that we have seen a lot of progress with the eye over the last few years. It hasn't really. It hadn't really been applied at scale to networks and specifically mobile that book. So we definitely saw no, actually there, but increasingly, ah, lot of the infrastructure that is being deployed there was more and more telemetry available. There was more and more data becoming available and that also obviously feet this whole engine. So I think the availability of all of these Big Data Technologies Maur data coming in from the network and the need because of these applications and that complexity. I think there's a perfect confluence >> that there's lots of lots of II floating around at the moment, and there's different flavors of it as well. So this machine learning there's Aye aye, sir. When when you say that there's there's a I behind this What? What particular kind of machine learning or a Y you're using to drive these networks? >> This a few different techniques because the problems we solve our anomaly detection off. Then problems are happening in the network predicting how network conditions are going to evolve. For example, predicting what your devices throughput is gonna be the next 30 seconds. We're also learning how to control the knobs in the neck using AI ai techniques. So each of these has different classes of the eye techniques. So, for example, for control we're using reinforcement learning, which is the same technique that Google used to kind of been on alphago. How do you learn how to play a game basically, but area the game you're playing it optimizing the network. But for the others, it's a record of neural networks to do predictions on Time series data. So I think it's a combination of techniques I wouldn't get to wherever the techniques. It's ultimately. But what is the problem you're trying to solve? And then they picked the right technique to solve it, >> and so on that because the aye aye is actually kind of stupid in that it doesn't know what they wouldn't. What an optimized network looks like. We have to show it what that is. So what? How do you actually train these systems to understand? But what is an optimized network? What? How does how does that tell you? Define this is what my network optimal state should be. >> So that's a great question, because in networking like that, any other discipline that wants to use the eye. There's not a lot of label data. What is the state I want to end up at what is a problem state or what is a good state? All of this is labels that someone has to enter, and that's not available axe kid, and we're never gonna be able to get it at the scale we wanted. So one of our secret sauce is if you will, is semi supervised learning but basic ideas that we're taking a lot of domain knowledge on using that domain knowledge to figure out what should be the right features for these models so that we can actually train these models in a scalable fashion. If you just throw it a lot of data any I model, it just does not converge. Hardly constructive features on the other thing is, how do I actually define what are good kind of end state conditions? What's a good network? And that's coming from domain knowledge to That's how we're making I scale for the stomach. >> I mean, overall, I would say, as you look at that, some of the parameters in terms of what you want to achieve are actually quite obvious things like fewer dropped calls for a cellular network. You know, that's good. So figuring out what the metrics need to be and what the tuning needs before the network, that's where Hana comes in in terms of the right people. >> All right, so shake her. Give us a little bit of an understanding as to where this fits into the networking portfolio. You know, we heard no we heard from Patty or two ago. You know what would have strong push? Networking is on the NSX number. Speaks for itself is what's happening with that portfolio? >> No, absolutely. In fact, what we're doing here is actually broader than networking. It's sort off very pertinent to the network off a carrier. But that is a bulk off their business, if you will. I think if you sort of go back and look at the emirs of any any, any vision, this is the notion of having any cloud in any application land on any cloud and then any device connected to those applications on that any cloud side we are looking at particularly to cloud pools, one which we call the Telco cloud and the other is the edge cloud. And both of these fortuitously are now becoming sort of transforming the context of five G. So in one case, in the telco cloudy or looking at their core and access networks, the radio networks, all of this getting more cloud ified, which essentially leads toe greater agility in service deployment, and then the edge is a much more distributed architecture. Many points over which you can have compute storage network management and security deployed. So if you now think about the sort of thousands off nodes on dhe virtualized clouds, it is just impossible to manage this manual. So what you do need is greater. I mean, orders of magnitude, greater automation in the ability to go and manage and infrastructure like this. So, with our technology now enhanced by Johanna in that network portfolio in the Telco Edge Cloud portfolio, were able to go back to the carriers and tell them, Look, we're not just foundational infrastructure providers. We can also then help you automate help you get visibility into your networks and just help you overall manager networks better for better customer expedience and better performance. >> So what are some of the use coasters that you see is being enabled by five G? There's a lot of hype about five short the moment and not just five jail. So things like WiFi six. Yeah, it would appear to me that this kind of technique would work equally well for five g Your wife. I short a WiFi six. So what are some of the use cases? You see these thieves service providers with Toko Edge clouds using this for? Yeah, So I think overall, first of all, I'd >> say enterprise use cases are going to become a pretty prominent part off five, even though a lot off the buzz and hype ends up being about consumers and how much bandwidth and data they could get in or whether five chicken passing preys or not. But in fact, things like on premise radio on whether that is private. Lt it's 40 or five t. These are the kinds of Uschi cases that were actually quite excited about because these could be deployed literally today. I mean, sometimes they're not regulated. You can go in with, like, existing architectures. You don't need to wait for standardization to break open a radio architecture. You could actually do it, Um, and >> so this sort off going in and >> providing connectivity on an enterprise network that is an enhanced state off where it is today. We've already started that journey, for example, with yellow cloud and branch networking. Now, if we can take that toe a radio based architecture for enterprise networking, So we think, ah, use case like that would be very prominent. And then based on edge architectures distributed networks now becoming the next generation Cdn is an example. That's another application that we think would be very prominent. And then I think, for consumers just sort of getting things like gaming applications off on edge network. Those are all the kinds of applications that would consume this sort off high skill, reliability and performance. >> Can you give a little sketch of the company pre acquisition, you know, is the product all g eight? How many customers you? Can you say what you have there? Sure >> it does us roughly three years old. The company itself so relatively young. We were around 33 people total. We had a product that is already deployed with chairman Telcos. So it is in production deployment with Chairman Telco Ondas in production trials with a couple of other tier one telcos. So we built a platform to scale to the largest networks in the world on If I, if I were to summarize it, be basically can observe, makes sense or in real time about every user in the network, what their experiences like actually apply. I modeled on top of that to optimize each user's expedience because one of the vision bee had was the network today is optimized for the average. But as all off our web expedience personalized netbook experiences, not personalized can be build a network Very your experiences personalized for you for the applications, your running on it. And this was kind of a foundation for that. >> I mean, we In fact, as we've been deploying our telco Cloud and carrier networks, we've also been counting roughly how many subscribers are being served up. Today we have over 800 million subscribers, and in fact, I was talking to someone and we were talking about that does. Being over 10% off the population of the world is now running on the lack of memory infrastructure. And then along comes Johanna and they can actually fine tune the data right down to a single subscriber. Okay, so now you can see the sort of two ends of the scale problem and how we can do this using a I. It's pretty powerful. Excellent. >> So So if we have any problems with our our service fighters, b tech support and I love to hear from both of you, you know what this acquisition position means for the future of the places and obviously VM wear global footprint. A lot of customers and resource is. But you know what I mean to your team in your product. >> I mean, definitely accelerating how quickly we can now start deploying. This and the rest of the world be as a small company, have very focused on a few key customers to prove the technology we have done that on. I think now it's the face to scale it on. Repeat it across a lot of other customers, but I think it also gives us a broader canvas to play that right. So we were focused on one aspect of the problem which is around, if you will, intelligence and subscriber experience. But I think with the cloud on but the orchestration products that are coming out of the ember, we can now start to imagine a full stock that you could build a network of full carrier network code off using using remote technology. So I think it's a broad, more exciting, actually, for us to be able to integrate not just the network data but also other parts of the stock itself. And >> it strikes me that this probably isn't just limited to telcos, either. The service providers and carriers are one aspect of this bit particularly five G and things like deployments into factory automation. Yes, I can see a lot of enterprise is starting to become much in some ways a little bit like a tell go. And they would definitely benefit from this >> kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, in fact, that's the basis of our internal even bringing our telco and EJ and I ot together and a common infrastructure pool. And so we're looking at that. That's the capability for deploying this type of technology across that. So you're exactly right, >> Checker want to give you the last word, you know, Telco space, you know? And then, obviously the broader cloud has been, you know, a large growth area. What, you want people taking away from the emerald 2019 when it comes to your team? >> Yeah, I think. To me, Calico's have a tremendous opportunity to not just be the plumbing and networking providers that they can in fact, be both the clowns of tomorrow as well as the application providers of tomorrow. And I think we have the technology and both organically as well as through acquisitions like Ohana. Take them there. So I'm just super excited about the journey. Because I think while most of the people are talking about five D as this wave, that is just beginning for us, it's just a perfect coming together on many of these architectures that is going to take telcos into a new world. So we're super excited about taking them. >> Shaker. Thank you so much for joining against auction. Congratulations and good luck on the next phase of you and your team's journey along the way. Thank you. Thank you for Justin. Warren comes to Minutemen, Stay with us. Still a bit more to go for VM World 2019 and, as always, thank you for watching the Cube.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. We're here. Of'em World 2019. You're watching the Cubans? Our 10th year of coverage at the event. I'm stupid. And my co host this afternoon is Justin Warren. And happy to welcome back to the program. Bob Ghaffari, who's the general manager of the Enterprise and Claude networking division at Intel. Bob, welcome back. Great. Great to be here. Thank you. S Oh, uh, you know, it's a dressing. And I think that last year I felt like every single show that I went to there was an Intel executive up on the stage. You know, there's a way we talked about. You know, the tic tac of the industry is something that drove things. So last year? Ah, lot going on. Um, haven't seen intel quite as much, but we know that means that, you know, you're you and your team aren't really busy. You know a lot of things going on here. VM worldwide. Give us the update since last we spoke. Well, you know, um >> So I think we have to just go back a little bit in terms of how until has been involved in terms of really driving. Just hold this whole network transformation. I want to say it started about a decade ago when we were really focused on trying to go Dr. You know, a lot of the capabilities on to more of a standard architecture, right? In the past, you know, people were encumbered by challenging architectures, you know, using, you know, proprietary kind of network processors. We were able to bring this together until architecture we open source dp decay, which is really this fast packet processing, you know, library that we basically enabled the industry on. And with that, there's basically been this. I want to say this revolution in terms of how networking has come together. And so what we've seen since last year is you know how NSX via Miranda sex itself has really grown up and be able to sort of get to these newer, interesting usage models. And so, for us, you know what really gets us excited is being really involved with enabling hybrid cloud multi cloud from a network perspective. And that's just what really gets me out of bed every day. Yeah, An s >> t n is, I think, gone from that early days where it was all a bit scary and new, and people weren't quite sure that they wanted to have that. Whereas now Stu is the thing, it's people are quite happy and comfortable to use it. It's it's now a very accepted way of doing networking. What have you noticed about that change where people have gone? Well, actually, it's accepted. Now, what is that enabling customers to do with S T. N. >> You know, um I mean, I think what you know S Dan really does. It gives you a lot of the enterprise customers and cloud customers, and a lot of other is really the flexibility to be able to do what you really need to do much better. And so if you can imagine the first stage, we had to go get a lot of the functions virtualized, right? So we did that over the last 10 years, getting the functions virtualized, getting him optimized and making sure that the performance is there as a virtual function. The next step here is really trying to make sure that you know you weaken enable customers to be able to do what they need to end their micro service's and feels. Or do this in a micro segmented kind of view. When and so um and also being in a scenario, we don't have to trombone the traffic, you know, off to be there, be it's inspected or, you know, our load balance and bringing that capability in a way, in a distributed fashion to where the workloads Neto happen. >> Yeah, who you mentioned micro segmentation there, And that's something which has been spoken about again for quite a while. What's the state of play with micro segmentation? Because it some customs have been trying to use it and found it a little bit tricky. And so they were seeing lots of vendors who come in and say We'll help you manage that. What's the state of play with Michael segmentation From your perspective, >> you know, I would say the way I would categorize it as micro segmentation has definitely become a very important usage model. In turn, how did really contain, you know, uh, policies within certain segments, right? So, one you know, you're able to sort of get to a better way of managing your environments. And you're also getting to a better way of containing any kind of threats. And so the fact that you can somehow, you know, segment off, um, you know, areas and FAA. And if you basically get some kind of, like attack or some kind of, you know, exploit, it's not gonna, you know, will go out of that segmented area to to some extent, that simplifies how you look at your environment, but you want to be able to do it in the fashion that you know, helps. Ultimately, the enterprises managed what they got on their environments. >> So, Bob, one of things that really struck me last year was the messaging that VM were had around networking specifically around multi cloud. It really hearken back to what I had heard from my syrup reacquisition on. Of course. Now, Veum, we're extending that with of'em or cloud in all of you know, aws the partnerships they are false, extended with azure, with Google in non premises with Delhi emcee and others. And a big piece of that message is we're gonna be able to have the same stack on on both sides. You could kind of explain. Where does Intel fit in there? How does Intel's networking multi cloud story dovetail with what we're hearing from VM? Where Right, So I >> think >> the first thing is that until has been very involved in terms of being into, um, any on Prem or public clouds, we get really involved there. What were you really trying to do on my team does is really focusing on the networking aspects. And so, for us is to not only make sure that if you're running something on prime, you get the best experience on from but also the consistency of having a lot of the key instruction sets and any cloud and be able to sort of, ah, you know, managed that ballistically, especially when you're looking at a hybrid cloud environment where you're basically trying to communicate between a certain cloud. It could be on Prem to another cloud that might be somewhere else. Having the consistent way of managing through encrypted tunnels and making sure you're getting the kind of performance that you need to be able to go address that I think these are the kind of things that we really focus on, and I think that for us, it's not only really bring this out and, um improving our instructions that architecture's so most recently What we did is, you know, we launched our second generations Aeon Scaleable processors that really came out in April, and so for us that really takes it to the next level. We get some really interesting new instruction, sets things like a V X 5 12 We get also other kind of, you know, you know more of, like inference, analytic inference capabilities with things like Deal Boost that really brings things together so you can be more effective and efficient in terms of how you look at your workloads and what you need to do with them, making sure they're secure but also giving you the insights that you need to be able to make that kind of decisions you want from a enterprise perspective >> steward. It always amuses me how much Intel is involved in all of his cloud stuff when it it would support. We don't care about hardware anymore. It's all terribly obstructed. And come >> on, Justin, there is no cloud. It's just someone tells his computer and there's a reasonable chance there's an Intel component or two Wednesday, right? >> Isn't Intel intelligence and the fact that Intel comes out and is continuing to talk to customers and coming to these kinds of events and showing that it's still relevant, and the technology that you're creating? Exactly how that ties into what's happening in cloud and in networking, I think is an amazing credit to what? To Intel's ability to adapt. >> You know, it's definitely been very exciting, and so not only have we really been focused on, how do we really expand our processor franchise really getting the key capabilities we need. So any time, anywhere you're doing any kind of computer, we want to make sure we're doing the best for our customers as possible. But in addition to that, what we've really done is we've been helped us around doubt our platform capabilities from a solution perspective to really bring out not only what has historically been a very strong franchise, pressed with her what we call our foundational nicks or network interface cards, but we've been eldest would expand that to be able to bring better capabilities no matter what you're trying to do. So let's say, for example, you know, um, you are a customer that wants to be able to do something unique, and you want to be able to sort of accelerate, you know, your own specific networking kind of functions or virtual switches. Well, we have the ability to do that. And so, with her intel, f p g. A and 3000 card as an example, you get that capability to be able to expand what you would traditionally do from a platform level perspective. >> I want to talk about the edge, but before we go there, there's a topic that's hot conversation here. But when I've been talking to Intel for a lot of years out container ization in general and kubernetes more specifically, you know, where does that fit into your group? I mentioned it just cause you know that the last time Intel Developer forum happened, a friend of mine gave a presentation working for intel, and, you know, just talking about how much was going on in that space on. Do you know, I made a comment back there this few years ago. You know, we just spent over a decade fixing all the networking and storage issues with virtualization. Aren't we going to have to do that again? And containers Asian? Of course, we know way are having toe solve some of those things again. So, you >> know, and for us, you know, as you guys probably know, until it's been really involved in one of the biggest things that you know sometimes it's kept as a secret is that we're probably one of the bigger, um, employers of software engineers. And so until was really, really involved. We have a lot of people that started off with, you know, open source of clinics and being involved there. And, of course, containers is sort of evolution to that. And for us really trying to be involved in making sure that we can sort of bring the capabilities that's needed from our instructions, said architecture is to be able to do containers kubernetes, and, you know, to do this efficient, efficiently and effectively is definitely key to what we want to get done. >> All right, so that was a setup. I I wanted for EJ computing because a lot of these we have different architectures we're gonna be doing when we're getting to the edge starting here. A little bit of that show that this show. But it's in overall piece of that multi cloud architecture that we're starting to build out. You know, where's your play? >> Well, so for us, I mean the way that we look at it as we think it starts all, obviously with the network. So when you are really trying to do things often times Dedge is the closest to word that data is being, you know, realized. And so for us making sure that, you know, we have the right kind of platform level capabilities that can take this data. And then you have to do something with this data. So there's a computer aspect to it, and then you have to be able to really ship it somewhere else, right? And so it's basically going to be to another cloud and might be to another micro server somewhere else. And so for us, what really sets the foundation is having a scale will set a platform sort of this thick, too thin kind of concept. That sort of says, depending on what you're trying to do, what you need to have something that could go the answer mold into that. And so for us, having a scaleable platform that can go from our Biggers eons down to an Adam processor is really important. And then also what we've been doing is working with the ecosystem to make sure that the network functions and software defined when and you know that we think sets a foundation to how you want to go and live in this multi cloud world. But starting off of the edge, you want to make sure that that is really effective, efficient. We can basically provide this in a very efficient capability because there's some areas where you know this. It's gonna be very price sensitive. So we think we have this awesome capability here with our Adam processors. In fact, yesterday was really interesting. We had Tom Burns and Tom Gillis basically get on the stage and talk about how Dell and VM we're collaborating on this. Um, and this basically revolves around platforms based on the Adam Process sitter, and that could scale up to our ze aan de processors and above that, so it depends on what you're trying to do, and we've been working with our partners to make sure that these functions that start off with networker optimized and you can do as much compute auras little computer as you want on that edge >> off the customers who were starting to use age because it's it's kind of you, but it's also kind of not. It's been around for a while. We just used to call it other things, like robots for the customers who were using engine the moment. What's what's the most surprising thing that you've seen them do with your technology? >> You know what is interesting is, you know, we sometimes get surprised by this ourselves and so one of the things that you know, some customers say, Well, you know, we really need low cost because all we really care about is just low level. You know, we we want to build the deploy this into a cafe, and we don't think you're gonna be all that the price spot because they automatically think that all intel does is Biggs eons, and we do a great job with that. But what is really interesting is that with their aunt in processors, we get to these very interesting, you know, solutions that are cost effective and yet gives you the scalability of what you might want to do. And so, for example, you know, we've seen customers that say, Yeah, you know, we want to start off with this, but you know, I'm networking, is it? But you know what? We have this plan, and this plan is like this. Maybe it's a 90 day plan or it could be up to a two year plan in terms of how they want to bring more capabilities at that branch and want to want to be able to do more. They want to be able to compute more. They want to make decisions more. They want to be able to give their customers at that place a much better experience that we think we have a really good position here with their platforms and giving you this mix and match capability, but easily built to scale up and do what our customers want. Great >> Bob, You know, when I think about this space in general, we haven't talked about five g yet, and you know, five g WiFi six, you know, expected to have a significant impact on networking. We're talking a little bit about you know edge. It's gonna play in that environment. Uh, what do you hear from Augusta Summers? How much is that involved with the activities you're working through? You know, >> it's definitely, really interesting. So, uh, five g is definitely getting a lot of hype. Were very, very involved. We've been working on this for a while until it's, uh, on the forefront of enabling five G, especially as it relates to network infrastructure, one of the key focus areas for us. And so the way that we sort of look at this on the edges that a lot of enterprises, some of them are gonna be leading, especially for cases where Leighton see is really important. You want to be able to make decisions, you know, really rather quickly. You want to be able to process it right there. Five g is gonna be one of these interesting technologies that starts, and we're already starting to see it enabled these new or used cases, and so we're definitely really excited about that. We're already starting to see this in stadium experience being enabled by five G what we're doing on the edge. There's experiences like that that we really get excited when we're part of, and we're really able to provide this model of enabling, you know, these new usage models. So for us, you know the connectivity aspects five g is important. Of course, you know, we're going to see a lot of work clothes used for G as basically predominant option. And, of course, the standard wired connective ity of I p m pl less and other things. >> I want to give you the final word. Obviously, Intel long partnership. As we know you know, current CEO Pack else under, you know, spent a good part of his, you know, early part of career at Intel. Give us the takeaway intel VM wear from VM 2019. You know, I mean, we've had a >> long partnership here between intel on VM, where we definitely value the partnership for us. It started off with virtual light servers a while back. Now we've been working on networking and so for us, the partnership has been incredible. You know, we continue to be able to work together. Of course. You know, we continue to see challenges as we go into hybrid cloud Malta Cloud. We are very excited to how in terms of how we can take this to the next level. And, you know, we're very happy to be be great partners with them. >> All right. Well, Bob Ghaffari, thank you for giving us the Intel networking update. We go up the stack down the stack, Multi cloud, all out the edge, coyote and all the applications for Justin Warren. I'm stupid. Men will be back for our continuing coverage of the emerald 2019. Thanks for watching the Cube.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. It is a cute conversation. >> Everyone. Welcome to this Special Cube conversation here at the Palo Alto Cube Studios. I'm John for a host of Cuba here. Moritz man is the head of the product management team at Open Systems A G. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming in. >> Hey, John. Thanks for having me. >> So last time we spoke, you had your event in Las Vegas. You guys are launching. You have a new headquarters here in Silicon Valley. Opened up this past spring. Congratulations. Thank you. >> Yeah, it's a great, great venue to start, and we set foot on the Silicon Valley ground. So to make our way to >> I know you've been super busy with the new building and rolling out, expanding heavily here in the Valley. But you guys were in the hottest area that we're covering Security Cloud security on premise, security. The combination of both has been the number one conversation pretty much in the cloud world right now. Honestly, besides a normal cloud, native cloud I t hybrid versus multi cloud out. See, that continues to be the discussion I think there's no more debate around multi cloud in hybrid public clouds. Great people gonna still keep their enterprises. But the security equation still is changing this new requirements. What's the latest that you guys are seeing with respect to security? >> Yeah. So, John, what we see is actually that cloud adoption had happens at different speeds. So you have usually the infrastructure of the service. Adoption would happens in a quite controlled way because there's a lift in shift. Do you have your old data center? You you take it and you transferred into azure I W S O G C P. But then there's also uncontrolled at option, which is in the SAS space. And I think this is where a lot off data risk occur, especially the wake off GDP are on where we see that this adoption happens. Maurin a sometimes control, but sometimes in a very uncontrolled way, >> explain that the uncontrolled and controlled expansion of of how security and multi cloud and cloud is going because this interesting control means this this plan's to do stuff uncontrolled means it's just by other forces explain uncontrolled versus controls >> eso controlled specifically means the IittIe team takes as a project plan and aches servers and workloads and moves them in a controlled fashion or in a dedicated project to the cloud. But what happened in the business world of business I t is actually did use those share content at any time with any device at any at any time and in all locations. So this is called the Mobile Enterprise on the Cloud First Enterprise. So it means that the classical security perimeter and the controls in that are my past, actually, by the path of least resistance or the shortest path >> available. And this is the classic case. People use Dropbox with some, you know, personal things. They're at home, they're at work, a p I based software. That's what you're getting at the >> and the issue of this is that that the data that has bean, like contained an pera meters where, you know, as it Caesar, where your data is. This has bean deployed too many edge devices, too many mobile devices, and it's get it gets shared, a nun controlled way. >> We'll get a couple talk tracks would like to drill down on that, because I think this is the trend. We're seeing a pea eye's dominant. The perimeter on the infrastructure has gone away. It's only getting bigger and larger. You got I, O. T and T Edge just and the networks are controlled and also owned by different people. So the packets of moving on it that's crazy so that that's the reality. First, talk track is the security challenge. What is the security challenge? How does a customer figure out what to do from an architectural standpoint when they're dealing with hybrid and multi cloud? So first of >> all, um, customers or BC enterprises try need to re think their infrastructure infrastructure centric view off the architecture's. So the architecture that had been built around data send us needs to become hybrid and multi cloud aware. So that means they need to define a new way off a perimeter, which is in cloud but also in the covering. Still the old, so to say, legacy hyper data center set up, which has the data still in the old data center and at the same time, they need to open up and become the cloud themselves, so to say, and but still draw a perimeter around their data and they users and not and their applications and not so much anymore around the physical infrastructure. >> So taking, changing their view of what a security product is, Is that really what you're getting at? >> Yeah, So the issues with the product point solution was that they fixed a certain part off off a tactile issue. So if you take a firewall in itself, firewall back then it was like a entry door to a big building, and you could could decide who comes out goes in. Now. If the the kind of the walls of the building are vanishing or arm or more FIC, you need to come over the more integrated concept. So having these stacked appliance and stacked security solutions trying to work together and chain them doesn't work anymore. So we think and we see that, >> Why is that? Why doesn't it work? Because in >> the end, it's it's it's hardly two to operate them. Each of those points solutions have their own end off life. They have their own life cycle. They have their own AP eyes. They have their own TCO, as all that needs to be covered. And then there's the human aspect where you have the knowledge pools around >> those technologies. So as an enterprise you have to content to continuously keep the very scar security experts to maintain content continues the depreciating assets running right, >> and they're also in it. We weren't built for tying into a holistic kind of platform. >> Yeah, What we see is that that enterprises now realize we have data centers and it's not accepted reality that you can abstracted with the cloud. So you have You don't own your own servers and buildings anymore. So you have a PAX model to subscribe to Cloud Service is and we think that this has to happen to security to so shift from cap ex to our pecs and the same way also for operational matters >> securities. The service is a crepe is a small I want to ask you on that front you mentioned mobile users. How do you secure the mobile uses when they use cloud collaboration? Because this is really what uses expect, and they want How do you secure it? >> So be secured by by actually monitoring the data where it actually gravitates, and this is usually in the cloud. So we enforce the data that is in transit through, ah, proxies and gators towards the cloud from the endpoint devices, but also then looking by AP eyes in the cloud themselves to look for threats, data leakage and also sandbox. Certain activities that happened. There >> are the next talk talk I want to get into is the expansion to hybrid and multi cloud so that you guys do from a product standpoint, solution for your customers. But in general, this is in the industry conversation as well. How how do you look at this from a software standpoint? Because, you know, we've heard Pat Gelsinger of'em were talking about somewhere to find Data Center S d n. Everything's now software based. You talk about the premiere goes away. You guys were kind of bring up a different approaches. A software perimeter? Yeah, what is the challenge for expanding to multi cloud and hybrid cloud? >> So So the challenge for enterprise and customers we talked to is that they have to run their old business. Gardner once called it by motile business, and it's still adopting not one cloud, but we see in our surveys. And this is also what market research confirms is that customers end up with 2 to 3 loud vendors. So there were will be one or two platforms that will be the primary to their major majority of applications and data gravity. But they will end up and become much more flexible with have running AWS, the old Davis Center. But it was the G, C, P and Azure, or Ali Baba glowed even side by side, right tow cover the different speeds at what their own and the price runs. And >> so I gotta ask you about Cloud Needed was one of the things that you're bringing up that just jumps in my head. And when I got to ask, because this is what I see is a potential challenge. It might be a current challenges when you have kubernetes growing such a rapid rate. You see the level of service is coming online much higher rate. So okay, people, mobile users, they're using the drop boxes, the boxes and using all these FBI service's. But that's just those wraps. As a hundreds and thousands of micro service is being stood up and Tauron down in there, you guys are taking, I think, an approach of putting a perimeter software premieres around these kinds of things, but they get turned on enough. How do you know what's clean? It's all done automatically, so this is becoming a challenge. So is this what you guys mean when you say software perimeter that you guys could just put security around things at any time? Is that explain this? >> Yeah, So? So if you talk about the service match so really mashing cloudy but native functions, I think it's still in the face where it's, I would say, chaos chaotic when you have specific projects that are being ramped up them down. So we draw a perimeter in that specific contact. So let's say you have You're ramping up a lot off cloud a function AWS. We can build a pyramid around this kind off containment and look especially for threats in the activity locks off. The different component is containers, but from from a design perspective, this needs to be, uh, we need to think off the future because if you look at Mike soft on AWS strategy, those containers will eventually move Also back to the edge. Eso were in preparing that to support those models also cover. Bring these functions closer back again to the edge on We call that not any longer the when, ej but it will become a cloud at at actually. So it's not an extension of the land that comes to the data. It's actually the data and the applications coming back to the user and much closer. >> Yeah. I mean, in that case, you could define the on premises environment has an edge, big edge, because this is all about moving, were close and data around. This is what the new normal is. Yeah, So okay, I gotta ask the next question, which is okay, If that's true, that means that kubernetes becomes a critical part of all this. And containers. How do you guys play with that at all? >> So we play with us by by actually looking at data coming from that at the moment. We're looking at this from a from a data transit perspective. We But we will further Maur integrate into their eighties AP eyes and actually become part off the C I C D. Process that building then actually big become a security function in approval and rolling out a cannery to certain service mesh. And we can say, Well, this is safe for this is unsafe This is, I think, the eventual goal to get there. But But for now, it's It's really about tracking the locks of each of those containers and actually having a parent her and segmentation around this service mash cloud. So to say, >> I think you guys got a good thing going on when you talk about this new concept that's of softer to find perimeter. You can almost map that to anything you get. Really think everything has its own little perimeter workload. Could be moving around still in these three secure. So I gotta ask on the next talk Trek is this leads into hybrid cloud. This is the hottest topic. Hybrid cloud to me is the same as multi cloud. Just kind of get together a little bit different. But hybrid cloud means you're operating both on premises and in the cloud. This is becoming a channel most si si SOS Chief admission Security officers. I don't want to fork their teams and have multiple people coding different stacks. They don't want the vendor lock in, and so you're seeing a lot of people pulling back on premises building their own stacks, deploying in the cloud and having a seamless operation. What is your definition of hybrid? Where do you see hybrid going? And how important is it? Have a hybrid strategy. >> So I think the key successfactors of a hybrid strategy is that standards standardization is a big topic. So we think that a service platform that to secure that like the SD when secure service platform rebuilt, needs to be standardized on operational level, but also from a baseline security and detection level. And this means that if you run and create your own work, those on Prem you need to have the same security and standard security and deployment standard for the clout and have the seamless security primary perimeter and level off security no matter where these these deployments are. And the second factor of this is actually how do you ensure a secure data transfer between those different workloads? And this is where S T win comes into play, which acts as a fabric together with when backbone, where we connect all those pieces together in a secure fashion >> where it's great to have you on the Q and sharing your insight on the industry. Let's get into your company. Open systems. You guys provide an integrated solution for Dev Ops and Secure Service and Security Platform. Take a minute to talk about the innovations that you guys were doing because you guys talk a lot about Casby. Talk a lot about integrated esti when but first define what Casby is for. The audience doesn't know what Casby is. C. A S B. It's kicked around all of the security conscious of your new to security. It's an acronym that you should pay attention to so defined casby and talk about your solution. >> Eso casby isn't theory. Aviation means cloud access security we broker. So it's actually becoming this centralized orchestrator that that allows and defines access based on a trust level. So saying, um, first of all, it's between networks saying I have a mobile workforce accessing SAS or I s applications. Can't be it in the middle to provide security and visibility about Where's my data moving? Where's married? Where do I have exposure off off GDP, our compliance or P C. I or he power risks And where is it exposed to, Which is a big deal on it's kind of the lowest level to start with, But then it goes further by. You can use the Casby to actually pull in data that that is about I s were close to toe identified data that's being addressed and stored. So are there any incidentally, a shared data artifacts that are actually critical to the business? And are they shared with extra resource is and then going one step further, where we then have a complete zero trust access model where we say we know exactly who can talkto which application at any time on give access to. But as everything this needs to be is in embedded in an evolution >> and the benefit ultimately goes to the SAS applications toe, have security built in. >> That's the first thing that you need to tackle. Nowadays, it's get your sass, cloud security or policy enforced on, but without disrupting service on business on to actually empower business and not to block and keep out the business >> can make us the classic application developer challenge, which is? They love to co they love the build applications, and what cloud did with Dev Ops was abstracted away the infrastructure so that they didn't have to do all this configuration. Sister. Right? APs You guys air enabling that for security? >> Exactly. Yeah. So coming back to this multi protein product cloud would, which is not keeping up anymore with the current reality and needs of a business. So we took the approach and compared death ops with a great service platform. So we have engineers building the platform. That's Integrated Security Service Platform, which promotes Esti Wen managed Detection response and Caspi Service is in one on the one platform which is tightly integrated. But in the in the customer focus that we provide them on or Pecs model, which is pretty, very predictable, very transparent in their security posture. Make that a scalable platform to operate and expand their business on. >> And that's great. Congratulations. I wanna go back for the final point here to round up the interview for the I T. Folks watching or, um, folks who have to implement multi cloud and hybrid cloud they're sitting there could be a cloud architect that could be an I T. Operations or 90 pro. They think multi cloud this in hybrid club. This is the environment. They have to get their arms around. How? What >> should they >> be thinking about? Around multi cloud and hybrid cloud. What is it, really? What's the reality now? What >> should they be considering for evaluation? What are some of the key things that that should be on their mind when they're dealing with hybrid cloud and all the opportunity around it? >> So I think they're they're like, four key pieces. Oneness. Um, they think they still have to start to think strategic. So what? It's a platform and a partner That helps them to plan ahead for the next 3 to 5 years in a way that they can really focus on what their business needs are. This is the scalability aspect. Secondly, it's a do. We have a network on security, our architecture that allows me to grow confidently and go down different venues to to actually adopt multi clouds without worrying about the security implication behind it. Too much, uh, and to implement it. And third is have this baseline and have this standardized security posture around wherever the data is moving, being at Mobil's being it SAS or being on Prem and in clouds workloads, the fourth pieces again, reading, thinking off where did you spend most of my time? Where do I create? Create value by by defining this framework so it really can create a benefit and value for the enterprise? Because if you do it not right your not right. You will have a way. You will end up with a an architecture that will break the business and not accelerated. >> Or it's made head of product that open systems here inside the Cube studios. Um, great job. Must love your job. You got the keys. A lot of pressure. Security being a product. Head of product for security companies. A lot of pressure before we wrap up. Just give a quick plug for the company. You guys hiring you have a new office space here in Redwood City. Looks beautiful. Give a quick shared play for the company. >> Yeah. So open systems the great company to work with. We're expanding in the U. S. On also, Amy, uh, with all the work force. So we're hiring. So go on our website. We have a lot off open positions, exciting challenges in a growth or into workspace. Andi. Yeah. As you said, security at the moment, it's one of the hottest areas to be in, especially with all the fundamental changes happening in the enterprise and architecture. I d landscape. So yeah, >> and clouds securing specifically. Not just in point. The normal stuff that people used to classify as hot as hot as Hades could be right now. But thanks for coming on. Strong insights. I'm jumping with Cuba here in Palo Alto with more Morris Man is the head of product management for open systems. Thanks for watching.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is >> a cute conversation. Hey, welcome back. Get ready. Geoffrey here with the Cube. We're gonna rip out the studios for acute conversation. It's the middle of the summer, the conference season to slow down a little bit. So we get a chance to do more cute conversation, which is always great. Excited of our next guest. He's Ridge, IP, Ops Statik. He's a VP and GM from key. Cite, Reject. Great to see you. >> Thank you for hosting us. >> Yeah. So we've had Marie on a couple of times. We had Bethany on a long time ago before the for the acquisition. But for people that aren't familiar with key site, give us kind of a quick overview. >> Sure, sure. So I'm within the excess solutions group Exhale really started was founded back in 97. It I peered around 2000 really started as a test and measurement company quickly after the I poet became the number one vendor in the space, quickly grew around 2012 and 2013 and acquired two companies Net optics and an ooey and net optics and I knew we were in the visibility or monitoring space selling taps, bypass witches and network packet brokers. So that formed the Visibility Group with a nice Xia. And then around 2017 key cite acquired Xia and we became I S G or extra Solutions group. Now, key site is also a very large test and measurement company. It is the actual original HB startup that started in Palo Alto many years ago. An HB, of course, grew, um it also started as a test and measurement company. Then later on it, it became a get a gun to printers and servers. HB spun off as agile in't, agile in't became the test and measurement. And then around 2014 I would say, or 15 agile in't spun off the test and measurement portion that became key site agile in't continued as a life and life sciences organization. And so key sites really got the name around 2014 after spinning off and they acquired Xia in 2017. So more joy of the business is testing measurement. But we do have that visibility and monitoring organization to >> Okay, so you do the test of measurement really on devices and kind of pre production and master these things up to speed. And then you're actually did in doing the monitoring in life production? Yes, systems. >> Mostly. The only thing that I would add is that now we are getting into live network testing to we see that mostly in the service provider space. Before you turn on the service, you need to make sure that all the devices and all the service has come up correctly. But also we're seeing it in enterprises to, particularly with security assessments. So reach assessment attacks. Security is your eye to organization really protecting the network? So we're seeing that become more and more important than they're pulling in test, particularly for security in that area to so as you. As you say, it's mostly device testing. But then that's going to network infrastructure and security networks, >> Right? So you've been in the industry for a while, you're it. Until you've been through a couple acquisitions, you've seen a lot of trends, so there's a lot of big macro things happening right now in the industry. It's exciting times and one of the ones. Actually, you just talked about it at Cisco alive a couple weeks ago is EJ Computer. There's a lot of talk about edges. Ej the new cloud. You know how much compute can move to the edge? What do you do in a crazy oilfield? With hot temperatures and no powers? I wonder if you can share some of the observations about EJ. You're kind of point of view as to where we're heading. And what should people be thinking about when they're considering? Yeah, what does EJ mean to my business? >> Absolutely, absolutely. So when I say it's computing, I typically include Io TI agent. It works is along with remote and branch offices, and obviously we can see the impact of Io TI security cameras, thermal starts, smart homes, automation, factory automation, hospital animation. Even planes have sensors on their engines right now for monitoring purposes and diagnostics. So that's one group. But then we know in our everyday lives, enterprises are growing very quickly, and they have remote and branch offices. More people are working from remotely. More people were working from home, so that means that more data is being generated at the edge. What it's with coyote sensors, each computing we see with oil and gas companies, and so it doesn't really make sense to generate all that data. Then you know, just imagine a self driving car. You need to capture a lot of data and you need to process. It just got really just send it to the cloud. Expect a decision to mate and then come back and so that you turn left or right, you need to actually process all that data, right? We're at the edge where the source of the data is, and that means pushing more of that computer infrastructure closer to the source. That also means running business critical applications closer to the source. And that means, you know, um, it's it's more of, ah, madness, massively distributed computer architecture. Um, what happens is that you have to then reliably connect all these devices so connectivity becomes important. But as you distribute, compute as well as applications, your attack surface increases right. Because all of these devices are very vulnerable. We're probably adding about 5,000,000 I ot devices every day to our network, So that's a lot of I O T. Devices or age devices that we connect many of these devices. You know, we don't really properly test. You probably know from your own home when you can just buy something and could easily connect it to your wife. I Similarly, people buy something, go to their work and connect to their WiFi. Not that device is connected to your entire network. So vulnerabilities in any of these devices exposes the entire network to that same vulnerability. So our attack surfaces increasing, so connection reliability as well as security for all these devices is a challenge. So we enjoy each computing coyote branch on road officers. But it does pose those challenges. And that's what we're here to do with our tech partners. Toe sold these issues >> right? It's just instinct to me on the edge because you still have kind of the three big um, the three big, you know, computer things. You got the networking right, which is just gonna be addressed by five g and a lot better band with and connectivity. But you still have store and you still have compute. You got to get those things Power s o a cz. You're thinking about the distribution of that computer and store at the edge versus in the cloud and you've got the Leighton see issue. It seems like a pretty delicate balancing act that people are gonna have to tune these systems to figure out how much to allocate where, and you will have physical limitations at this. You know the G power plant with the sure by now the middle of nowhere. >> It's It's a great point, and you typically get agility at the edge. Obviously, don't have power because these devices are small. Even if you take a room order branch office with 52 2 100 employees, there's only so much compute that you have. But you mean you need to be able to make decisions quickly. They're so agility is there. But obviously the vast amounts of computer and storage is more in your centralized data center, whether it's in your private cloud or your public cloud. So how do you do the compromise? When do you run applications at the edge when you were in applications in the cloud or private or public? Is that in fact, a compromise and year You might have to balance it, and it might change all the time, just as you know, if you look at our traditional history off compute. He had the mainframes which were centralized, and then it became distributed, centralized, distributed. So this changes all the time and you have toe make decisions, which which brings up the issue off. I would say hybrid, I t. You know, they have the same issue. A lot of enterprises have more of a, um, hybrid I t strategy or multi cloud. Where do you run the applications? Even if you forget about the age even on, do you run an on Prem? Do you run in the public cloud? Do you move it between class service providers? Even that is a small optimization problem. It's now even Matt bigger with H computer. >> Right? So the other thing that we've seen time and time again a huge trend, right? It's software to find, um, we've seen it in the networking space to compete based. It's offered to find us such a big write such a big deal now and you've seen that. So when you look at it from a test a measurement and when people are building out these devices, you know, obviously aton of great functional capability is suddenly available to people, but in terms of challenges and in terms of what you're thinking about in software defined from from you guys, because you're testing and measuring all this stuff, what's the goodness with the badness house for people, you really think about the challenges of software defined to take advantage of the tremendous opportunity. >> That's a really good point. I would say that with so far defined it working What we're really seeing is this aggregation typically had these monolithic devices that you would purchase from one vendor. That wonder vendor would guarantee that everything just works perfectly. What software defined it working, allows or has created is this desegregated model. Now you have. You can take that monolithic application and whether it's a server or a hardware infrastructure, then maybe you have a hyper visor or so software layer hardware, abstraction, layers and many, many layers. Well, if you're trying to get that toe work reliably, this means that now, in a way, the responsibility is on you to make sure that you test every all of these. Make sure that everything just works together because now we have choice. Which software packages should I install from which Bender This is always a slight differences. Which net Nick Bender should I use? If PJ smart Nick Regular Nick, you go up to the layer of what kind of ax elation should I use? D. P. D K. There's so many options you are responsible so that with S T N, you do get the advantage of opportunity off choice, just like on our servers and our PCs. But this means that you do have to test everything, make sure that everything works. So this means more testing at the device level, more testing at the service being up. So that's the predeployment stage and wants to deploy the service. Now you have to continually monitor it to make sure that it's working as you expected. So you get more choice, more diversity. And, of course, with segregation, you can take advantage of improvements on the hardware layer of the software layer. So there's that the segregation advantage. But it means more work on test as well as monitoring. So you know there's there's always a compromise >> trade off. Yeah, so different topic is security. Um, weird Arcee. This year we're in the four scout booth at a great chat with Michael the Caesars Yo there. And he talked about, you know, you talk a little bit about increasing surface area for attack, and then, you know, we all know the statistics of how long it takes people to know that they've been reach its center center. But Mike is funny. He you know, they have very simple sales pitch. They basically put their sniffer on your network and tell you that you got eight times more devices on the network than you thought. Because people are connecting all right, all types of things. So when you look at, you know, kind of monitoring test, especially with these increased surface area of all these, Iet devices, especially with bring your own devices. And it's funny, the H v A c seemed to be a really great place for bad guys to get in. And I heard the other day a casino at a casino, uh, connected thermometer in a fish tank in the lobby was the access point. How is just kind of changing your guys world, you know, how do you think about security? Because it seems like in the end, everyone seems to be getting he breached at some point in time. So it's almost Maur. How fast can you catch it? How do you minimize the damage? How do you take care of it versus this assumption that you can stop the reaches? You >> know, that was a really good point that you mentioned at the end, which is it's just better to assume that you will be breached at some point. And how quickly can you detect that? Because, on average, I think, according to research, it takes enterprise about six months. Of course, they're enterprise that are takes about a couple of years before they realize. And, you know, we hear this on the news about millions of records exposed billions of dollars of market cap loss. Four. Scout. It's a very close take partner, and we typically use deploy solutions together with these technology partners, whether it's a PM in P. M. But very importantly, security, and if you think about it, there's terabytes of data in the network. Typically, many of these tools look at the packet data, but you can't really just take those terabytes of data and just through it at all the tools, it just becomes a financially impossible toe provide security and deploy such tools in a very large network. So where this is where we come in and we were the taps, we access the data where the package workers was essentially groom it, filtering down to maybe tens or hundreds of gigs that that's really, really important. And then we feed it, feed it to our take partners such as Four Scout and many of the others. That way they can. They can focus on providing security by looking at the packets that really matter. For example, you know some some solutions only. Look, I need to look at the package header. You don't really need to see the send the payload. So if somebody is streaming Netflix or YouTube, maybe you just need to send the first mega byte of data not the whole hundreds of gigs over that to our video, so that allows them to. It allows us or helps us increase the efficiency of that tool. So the end customer can actually get a good R Y on that on that investment, and it allows for Scott to really look at or any of the tech partners to look at what's really important let me do a better job of investigating. Hey, have I been hacked? And of course, it has to be state full, meaning that it's not just looking at flow on one data flow on one side, looking at the whole communication. So you can understand What is this? A malicious application that is now done downloading other malicious applications and infiltrating my system? Is that a DDOS attack? Is it a hack? It's, Ah, there's a hole, equal system off attacks. And that's where we have so many companies in this in this space, many startups. >> It's interesting We had Tom Siebel on a little while ago actually had a W s event and his his explanation of what big data means is that there's no sampling air. And we often hear that, you know, we used to kind of prior to big day, two days we would take a sample of data after the fact and then tried to to do someone understanding where now the more popular is now we have a real time streaming engines. So now we're getting all the data basically instantaneously in making decisions. But what you just bring out is you don't necessarily want all the data all the time because it could. It can overwhelm its stress to Syria. That needs to be a much better management approach to that. And as I look at some of the notes, you know, you guys were now deploying 400 gigabit. That's right, which is bananas, because it seems like only yesterday that 100 gigabyte Ethan, that was a big deal a little bit about, you know, kind of the just hard core technology changes that are impacting data centers and deployments. And as this band with goes through the ceiling, what people are physically having to do, do it. >> Sure, sure, it's amazing how it took some time to go from 1 to 10 gig and then turning into 40 gig, but that that time frame is getting shorter and shorter from 48 2 108 100 to 400. I don't even know how we're going to get to the next phase because the demand is there and the demand is coming from a number of Trans really wants five G or the preparation for five G. A lot of service providers are started to do trials and they're up to upgrading that infrastructure because five G is gonna make it easier to access state of age quickly invest amounts of data. Whenever you make something easy for the consumer, they will consume it more. So that's one aspect of it. The preparation for five GS increasing the need for band with an infrastructure overhaul. The other piece is that we're with the neutralization. We're generating more Eastern West traffic, but because we're distributed with its computing, that East West traffic can still traverse data centers and geography. So this means that it's not just contained within a server or within Iraq. It actually just go to different locations. That also means your data center into interconnect has to support 400 gig. So a lot of network of hitmen manufacturers were typically call them. Names are are releasing are about to release 400 devices. So on the test side, they use our solutions to test these devices, obviously, because they want to release it based the standards to make sure that it works on. So that's the pre deployment phase. But once these foreign jiggy devices are deployed and typically service providers, but we're start slowly starting to see large enterprises deploy it as a mention because because of visualization and computing, then the question is, how do you make sure that your 400 gig infrastructure is operating at the capacity that you want in P. M. A. P M. As well as you're providing security? So there's a pre deployment phase that we help on the test side and then post deployment monitoring face. But five G is a big one, even though we're not. Actually we haven't turned on five year service is there's tremendous investment going on. In fact, key site. The larger organization is helping with a lot of these device testing, too. So it's not just Xia but key site. It's consume a lot of all of our time just because we're having a lot of engagements on the cellphone side. Uh, you know, decide endpoint side. It's a very interesting time that we're living in because the changes are becoming more and more frequent and it's very hot, so adapt and make sure that you're leading that leading that wave. >> In preparing for this, I saw you in another video camera. Which one it was, but your quote was you know, they didn't create electricity by improving candles. Every line I'm gonna steal it. I'll give you credit. But as you look back, I mean, I don't think most people really grown to the step function. Five g, you know, and they talk about five senior fun. It's not about your phone. It says this is the first kind of network built four machines. That's right. Machine data, the speed machine data and the quantity of Mr Sheen data. As you sit back, What kind of reflectively Again? You've been in this business for a while and you look at five G. You're sitting around talking to your to your friends at a party. So maybe some family members aren't in the business. How do you How do you tell them what this means? I mean, what are people not really seeing when they're just thinking it's just gonna be a handset upgrade there, completely missing the boat? >> Yeah, I think for the for the regular consumer, they just think it's another handset. You know, I went from three G's to 40 year. I got I saw bump in speed, and, you know, uh, some handset manufacturers are actually advertising five G capable handsets. So I'm just going to be out by another cell phone behind the curtain under the hurt. There's this massive infrastructure overhaul that a lot of service providers are going through. And it's scary because I would say that a lot of them are not necessarily prepared. The investment that's pouring in is staggering. The help that they need is one area that we're trying to accommodate because the end cell towers are being replaced. The end devices are being replaced. The data centers are being upgraded. Small South sites, you know, Um, there's there's, uh how do you provide coverage? What is the killer use case? Most likely is probably gonna be manufacturing just because it's, as you said mission to make mission machine learning Well, that's your machine to mission communication. That's where the connected hospitals connected. Manufacturing will come into play, and it's just all this machine machine communication, um, generating vast amounts of data and that goes ties back to that each computing where the edge is generating the data. But you then send some of that data not all of it, but some of that data to a centralized cloud and you develop essentially machine learning algorithms, which you then push back to the edge. The edge becomes a more intelligent and we get better productivity. But it's all machine to machine communication that, you know, I would say that more of the most of the five communication is gonna be much information communication. Some small portion will be the consumers just face timing or messaging and streaming. But that's gonna be there exactly. Exactly. That's going to change. I'm of course, we'll see other changes in our day to day lives. You know, a couple of companies attempted live gaming on the cloud in the >> past. It didn't really work out just because the network latency was not there. But we'll see that, too, and was seeing some of the products coming out from the lecture of Google into the company's where they're trying to push gaming to be in the cloud. It's something that we were not really successful in the past, so those are things that I think consumers will see Maur in their day to day lives. But the bigger impact is gonna be for the for the enterprise >> or jet. Thanks for ah, for taking some time and sharing your insight. You know, you guys get to see a lot of stuff. You've been in the industry for a while. You get to test all the new equipment that they're building. So you guys have a really interesting captaincy toe watches developments. Really exciting times. >> Thank you for inviting us. Great to be here. >> All right, Easier. Jeff. Jeff, you're watching the Cube. Where? Cube studios and fellow out there. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> From the SiliconANGLE media office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's the CUBE. Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. Hi, CUBE nation, I'm Sam Kahane. Thanks for watching the CUBE. Due to popular demand from the community, I will be interviewing the legendary Stu Miniman, here today. He is S-T-U on Twitter. Stu and I are going to be digging in to the 2019 predictions, and also recapping 2018 for you here. So, Stu, let's get into it a little bit. 2018, can you set the stage? How many events did you go to? How many interviews did you conduct? >> Boy, Sam, it's tough to look back. We did so much with the CUBE this year. I, personally, did over 20 shows, and somewhere between 400 and 450 interviews, out of, we as a team did over a 100 shows, over 2000 interviews. So, really great to be in the community, and immerse ourselves, drink from the fire hose, and some of the data. (laughs) >> So, over 400 interviews this year, that's amazing. What about some of the key learnings from 2018? Yeah, Sam,my premise when I'm going out is, how are we maturing? My background, as you know, Sam, I'm an infrastructure guy. My early training was in networking. I worked on virtualization, and I've been riding this wave of cloud for about the last 10 years. So, about two years ago, it was, software companies, how are they living in these public clouds? Amazon, of course, the dominant player in the marketplace, but we know it will be a multi-cloud world. And the update, for 2018, is we've gone from, how do I live in those public clouds, to how are we maturing? We call it hybrid clouds, or multi-cloud, but living between these worlds. We saw the rise in Kubernetes, as a piece of it, but customers have lots of environments, and how they get their arms around that, is a serious challenge out there, today. So, how are the suppliers and communities, and the systems integration, helping customers with this really challenging new environment, that we have today. >> I'd love to hear any OMG moments from you. What surprised you the most this year? >> It's interesting, when I wanna think about some of the big moves in the industry, I mean, we had the largest software acquisition in tech history. IBM, the company you used to work for, Sam, buying Red Hat, a company I've worked with, for about 20 years, for 34 billion dollars. I mean, Red Hat has been the poster child for open source, and the exemplar of that. It was something that was like, wow, this is a big deal. We've been talking for a long time, how important developers are, and how important open source is, and there's nothing like seeing Big Blue, a 107-year-old company, putting in huge dollars, to really, not just validate, cause IBM's been working in open source, working with Linux for a long time, but how important this is to the future. And that sits right at that core of that multi-cloud world. Red Hat wants to position itself to live in a lot of those environments, not just for Linux, but the Middleware, Kubernetes is a big play. We saw a number of acquisitions in the space there. Red Hat bought CoreOS for $250 million. VMware bought Heptio, and was kind of surprised, at the sticker shock, $550 million. Great team, we know the Heptio team well. We talked to them, some of the core people, back when they were at Google. But, some big dollars are being thrown around, in this space, and, as you said, the big one in the world is Amazon. One of the stories that everybody tracked all year was the whole hq2 thing. It kind of struck me as funny, as Amazon is in Seattle. I actually got to visit Seattle, for the first time, this year, and somebody told me, if you look at the top 50 companies that have employees in Seattle, of course, Amazon is number one, but you need to take number two through 43, and add them together, to make them as big as Amazon. Here in Boston, there's a new facility going up, with 5,000 employees. I know they're going to have 25,000 in Long Island City, right in the Queens, in New York City, as well as Crystal City, right outside of DC, 25,000. But, the realization is that, of course, Amazon's going to have data centers, in pretty much every country, and they're going to have employees all around the world. This doesn't just stay to the US, but Amazon, overall. So, Amazon, just a massive employer. I know so many people who have joined them. (laughs) Some that have left them. But, almost everything that I talk about, tends to come back to Amazon, and what there are doing, or how people are trying to compete, or live in that ecosystem. >> You're always talking to the community. What are some of the hottest topics you're hearing out there? >> So, living in this new world, how are we dealing with developers? A story that I really liked, my networking background, the Cisco DevNet team, led by Suzie Wee, is a really phenomenal example, and one of my favorite interviews of the year. I actually got to talk to Suzie twice this year. We've known her for many years. She got promoted to be a Senior Vice President, which is a great validation, but what she built is a community from the ground up. It took about four years to build this platform, and it's not about, "Oh, we have some products, and developers love it.", but it's the marketplace that they live in, really do have builders there. It's the most exciting piece of what's happening at Cisco. My first show for 2019 will be back at Cisco, live in Barcelona, and Cisco going through this massive transformation, to be the dominant networking company. When they talk about their future, it is as a software company. That actually, it blew my mind, Sam. You know, Cisco is the networking company. When they say, "When you think of us, "five to ten years from now, "you won't think of us as a networking company. "You'll think of us as a software company." That's massive. They were one of the four horsemen of the internet era. And, if Cisco is making that change, everything changes. IBM, people said if they don't make this move for Red Hat, is there danger in the future? So, everything is changing so fast, it is one of the things that everybody tries to sort out and deal with. I've got some thoughts on that, which I'm sure we'll get to later on. >> (laughs) As is Suzie Wee one of your top interviews of 2018, could you give your top three interviews? >> First of all, my favorite, Sam, is always when I get to talk to the practitioners. A few of the practitioners I love talking to, at the Nutanix show in New Orleans this year, I talked to Vijay Luthra, with Northern Trust. My co-host of the show was Keith Townsend. Keith, Chicago guy, said, "Northern Trust is one "of the most conservative financial companies", and they are all-in on containerization, modernized their application. It is great to see a financial company that is driving that kind of change. That's kind of a theme I think you'll see, Sam. Another, one, was actually funny enough, Another Nutanix show, at London, had the Manchester City Council. So, the government, what they're doing, how they're driving change, what they're doing with their digital transformation, how they're thinking of IOT. Some of my favorite interviews I've done the last few years, have been in the government, because you don't think of government as innovating, but, they're usually resource-constrained. They have a lot of constituencies, and therefore, they need to do this. The Amazon public sector show was super-impressive. Everything from, I interviewed a person from the White House Historical Society. They brought on Jackie O's original guidebook, of being able to tour the White House. So, some really cool human interest, but it's all a digital platform on Amazon. What Amazon is doing in all of the industry-specific areas, is really impressive. Some of these smaller shows that we've done, are super-impressive. Another small show, that really impressed me, is UiPath, robotic process automation, or RPA, been called the gateway drug to AI, really phenomenal. I've got some background in operations, and one of the users on the program was talking about how you could get that process to somewhere around 97 to 98% compliance, and standardize, but when they put in RPA, they get it to a full six sigma, which is like 99.999%, and usually, that's something that just humans can't do. They can't just take the variation out of a process, with people involved. And, this has been the promise of automation, and it's a theme. One of my favorite questions, this year, has been, we've been talking about things like automation, and intelligence in systems, for decades, but, now, with the advent of AI machine learning, we can argue whether these things are actually artificial intelligence, in what they are learning, but the programming and learning models, that can be set up and trained, and what they can do on their own, are super-impressive, and really poised to take the industry to the next level. >> So, I wanna fast forward to 2019, but before we do so, anything else that people need to know about 2018? >> 2018, Sam, it's this hybrid multi-cloud world. The relationship that I think we spend the most time talking about, is we talked a lot about Amazon, but, VMware. VMware now has over 600,000 customers, and that partnership with VMware is really interesting. The warning, of course, is that Amazon is learning a lot from Vmware, When we joke with my friends, we say, "Okay, you've learned a lot from them means that "maybe I don't need them in the long term." But in the short term, great move for VMware, where they've solidified their position with customers. Customers feel happy as to where they live, in that multi-cloud environment, and I guess we throw out these terms like hybrid, and multi, and things like that, but when I talk to users, they're just figuring out their digital transformation. They're worried about their business. Yes, they're doing cloud, so sassify what you can, put in the public cloud what makes sense, and modernize. Beware of lift and shift, it's really not the answer. It could be a piece of the overall puzzle, to be able to modernize and pull things apart. An area, I always try to keep ahead of what the next bleeding-edge thing is, Sam. A thing I've been looking at, deeply, the last two years, has been serverless. Serverless is phenomenal. It could just disrupt everything we're talking about, and, Amazon, of course, has the lead there. So, it was kind of an undercurrent discussion at the KubeCon Show, that we were just at. Final thing, things are changing all the time, Sam, and it is impossible for anybody to keep up on all of it. I get the chance to talk to some of the most brilliant people, at some of the most amazing companies, and even those, you know, the PhD's, the people inventing stuff, they're like, "I can't keep up with what's going on at my company, "let alone what's going on in the industry." So, that's the wrong thing. Of course, one of the things we helped to do, is to extract the signal from the noise, help people distill that. We put it into video, we put it into articles, we put it into podcasts, to help you understand some of the basics, and where you might wanna go to learn more. So, we're all swimming in this. You know, the only constant, Sam, in the industry is change. >> Absolutely. (laughing in unison) >> So, things are changing. The whole landscape, as you said, is changing. Going into 2019, what should people expect? Any predictions from you? Any big mergers and acquisitions you might see? >> It's amazing, Sam. The analogy I always use is, when you have the hundred year flood, you always say, "Oh gosh, we got through it, "and we should be okay." No, no, no, the concern is, if you have the hundred year flood, or the big earthquake, the chances are that you're going to have maybe something of the same magnitude, might even be more or less, but rather soon. A couple of years ago, Dell bought EMC, largest acquisition in tech history. We spent a lot of time analyzing it. By the way, Dell's gonna go public, December 28. Interesting move, billions of dollars. As Larry Ellison said, "Michael Dell, "he's no dummy when it comes to money.' He is going to make, personally, billions of dollars off of this transaction, and, overall, looks good for the Dell technologies family, as they're doing. So, that acquisition, the Red Hat acquisition, yeah, we're probably gonna see a 10-to-20 billion dollar acquisition this year. I'm not sure who it is. There's a lot of tech IPOs on the horizon. The data protection space is one that we've kept a close eye on. From what I hear, Zeam, who does over a billion dollars a year, not looking to go public. Rubrik, on the other hand, somewhere in the north of 200 million dollars worth of revenue, I kind of remember 200, 250 in run rate, right now, likely going to go public in 2019. Could somebody sweep in, and buy them before they go public? Absolutely. Now, I don't think Rubrik's looking to be acquired. In that space, you've got Rubrik, you've got Cohesity, you've got a whole lot of players, that it has been a little bit frothy, I guess you'd say. But, customers are looking for a change in how they're doing things, because their environments are changing. They've got lots of stuff in sass, gotta protect that data. They've got things all over the cloud, and that data issue is core. When we actually did our predictions for 2018, data was at the center of everything, when I talked about Wikibon. It was just talking to Peter Burris and David Floyer, and they said there is some hesitancy in the enterprise, like, I'm using Salesforce, I'm using Workday I'm using ServiceNow. We hear all the things about Facebook giving my data away, Google, maybe the wrong people own data, there's that concern I want to pull things back. I always bristle a little bit, when you talk about things like repatriation, and "I'm not gonna trust the cloud." Look, the public clouds are more secure, than my data centers are in general, and they're changing and updating much faster. One of the biggest things we have, in IT, is that I put something in, and making changes is tough. Change, as we said, is the only thing constant. It was something I wrote about. Red Hat, actually, is a company that has dealt with a lot of change. Anybody that sells anything with Linux, or Kubernetes, there are so many changes happening, on not only weekly, but a daily basis, that they help bring a little bit of order, and adult supervision, to what most people would say is chaos out there. That's the kind of thing we need more in the industry, is I need to be able to manage that change. A line I've used many times is, you don't go into a company and say, "Hey, what version of Azure are you running?" You're running whatever Microsoft says is the latest and greatest. You don't have to worry about Patch Tuesday, or 08. I've got that things that's gonna slow down my system for awhile. Microsoft needs to make that invisible to me. They do make that thing invisible to me. So does Amazon, so does Google. >> What's your number one company to watch, this upcoming year. Is it Amazon, Sam? Look, Amazon is the company at the center of it all. Their ecosystem is amazing. While Amazon adds more in revenue, than the number two infrastructure player does in revenue. So, look, in the cloud space, it is not only Amazon's world. There definitely is a multi-cloud world. I went to the Microsoft show for the first time, this year, and Microsoft's super-impressive. They focus on your business applications, and their customers love it. Office 365 really helped move everybody towards sass, in a big way, and it's a big service industry. Microsoft's been a phenomenal turnaround story, the last couple of years. Definitely want to dig in more with that ecosystem, in 2019 and beyond. But, Amazon, you know, we could do more shows of the CUBE, in 2019, than we did our first couple of years. They have, of course, Amazon re:Invent, our biggest show of the year, but their second year, it's about 20 shows, that they do, and we're increasing those. I've been to the New York City Summit, and the San Francisco Summit. I've already mentioned their Public Sector Summit. Really, really, really good ecosystems, phenomenal users, and I already told you how I feel about talking to users. It's great to hear what they're doing, and those customers are moving things around. Google, love doing the Google show. We'll be back there in April. Diane Greene is one of the big guests of the year, for us this year. I was sorry to miss it in person, 'cause I actually have some background. I worked with Diane. Back before EMC bought VMware. I had the pleasure of working with Vmware, when they were, like, a hundred person company. Sam, one of the things, I look back at my career, and I'm still a little bit agog. I mean, I was in my mid-20s, working in this little company, of about 100 people, signed an NDA, started working with them, and that's VMware, with 600,000 customers. I've watched their ascendancy. It's been one of the pleasures of my career. There's small ones, heck. Nutanix I've mentioned a couple of times. I started working them when they were real small. They have over a billion in revenue. New Cure, since the early days. Some companies have done really well. The cloud is really the center of gravity of what I watch. Edge computing we got into a bit. I'm surprised we got almost 20 minutes into this conversation, without mentioning it. That, the whole IOT space, and edge computing, really interesting. We did a fun show with PTC, here in Boston. Got to talk to the father of AI, the father of virtual reality. It's like all these technologies, many of which have been bouncing around for a couple of decades. How are they gonna become real? We've got a fun virtual reality place right next door. The guy running the cameras for us is a huge VR enthusiast. How much will those take the next step? And, how much are things stalling out? I worry, was having conversations. Autonomous vehicles, we're even looking at the space. Been talking about it. Will it really start to accelerate? Or have we hit road blocks, and it's gonna get delayed. Some of these are technologies, some of these are policies in place, in governments and the like, and that's still one of the things that slows down crowded options. You know, GDPR was the big discussion, leading into the beginning of 2018. Now, we barely talk about it. There's more regulations coming, in California and the like, but we do need to worry about some of those macro-economical and political things that sometimes get in the way, of some of the technology pieces. >> I'd love to put something out into the universe, here. If you could interview anyone in the world, who would it be? Let's see if we can make it happen. It's amazing to me, Sam, some of the interviews we've done. I got a one-on-one with Michael Dell this year. It was phenomenal, Michael was one. It took us about three or four years before we got Michael on the program, the first time. Now, we have him two or three times a year. Really, to get to talk to him. There is the founder culture John Furrier always talks about. Some of these founders are very different. Michael, amazing, got to speak to him a couple of times. There's something that makes him special, and there's a reason why he's a billionaire, and he's done very well for himself. So, that was one. Furrier also interviewed John Chambers, who is one of the big gets I was looking at. I was jealous that I wasn't able to get there. I got to interview one of my favorite authors this year, Walter Isaacson, at the shows. When I look at, Elon Musk, of course, as a technologist, is, I'm amazed. I read his bio, I've heard some phenomenal interviews with him. Kara Swisher did a phenomenal sit-down on her podcast with him. Even the 60 Minutes interview was decent this year. >> The Joe Rogan one was great >> Yeah, so, you'd want to be able to sit down. I wouldn't expect Elon to be a 15-minute, rapid-fire conversation, like we usually have. But, we do some longer forms, sit down. So he would be one. Andrew Jassy, we've interviewed a number of times now. Phenomenal. We've got to get Bezos on the program. Some of the big tech players out there. Look, Larry Ellison's another one that we haven't had on the program. We've had Mark Hurd on the program, We've had lots of the Oracle executives. Oracle's one that you don't count out. They still have so many customers, and have strong power in new issues, So there are some big names. I do love some of the authors, that we've had on the program, some thought leaders in the space. Every time we go to a show, it's like, I was a little disappointed I didn't get to interview Jane Goodall, when she was at a show. Things like that. So, we ask, and never know when you can get 'em. A lot of times, it's individual stories of the users, which are phenomenal, and there's just thousands of good stories. That's why we go to some small shows, and make sure we always have some editorial coverage. So that, if their customers are comfortable sharing their story, that's the foundation our research was founded on. Peers sharing with their peers. Some of the most powerful stories of change, and taking advantage of new technologies, and really transforming, not just business, but health care and finance, and government. There's so much opportunity for innovation, and drivers in the marketplace today. >> Stu, I love it. Thanks for wrapping up 2018 for us, and giving us the predictions. CUBE nation, you heard it here. We gotta get Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Larry Ellison on the CUBE this year. We could use your help. Stu, thank you, and CUBE nation, thank you for watching. (electronic techno music)

(electronic music) - Welcome to theCube Insights. A podcast that is typically taken from Siliconangle media's theCube interviews, where we share the best of our teams insights from all events we go to and from time to time we want to be able to extract some of our learnings when we're back at the ranch. Joining me for this segment is co-founder, co-CEO, benevolent dictator of a community, my boss, Dave Vellante. - Hey Stu. - Dave. Good to see you dressed down. - Yeah, well. Podcast, right? We got toys, props and no tie. - Yeah, I love seeing this ... we were just talking, John Furrier, who we could really make a claim to say we wouldn't have the state of podcasting today, definitely in tech, if it wasn't for what John had done back in the day with PodTech and it's one of those things, we've talked about podcasts for years but I'd gotten feedback from the community that said, "Wow, you guys have grown and go to so many shows that we want to listen to you guys as to: what was interesting at this show, what did you guys take out of it, what cool people did you interview?" We said, "Well, of course all over youtube, our website thecube.net but it made a lot of sense to put them in podcast form because podcasts have had a great renaissance over the last couple of years. - Yeah, and it's pretty straight forward, as Stu, for us to do this because virtually every show we do, even if it's a sponsor show, we do our own independent analysis upfront and at the tail end, a lot of our people in our community said, "We listen to that, to get the low down on the show and get your unfiltered opinion." And so, why not? - Yeah, Dave. Great point. I love, from when I first came on board, you always said, "Stu, speak your mind. Say what the community; what are the users saying? What does everybody talk about?" As I always say, if there is an elephant in the room we want to put it on the table and take a bite out it. And even, yes, we get sponsored by the companies to be there. We're fully transparent as to who pays us. But from the first Cube event, at the end of the day, where after keynote, we're gonna tell you exactly what we think and we're always welcome for debate. For people to come back, push on what we're saying and help bring us more data because at the end of the day, data and what's actually happening in the world will help shape our opinions and help us move in the direction where we think things should go. - I think the other thing is too, is a lot of folks ask us to come in and talk to them about what we've learned over the past year, the past six months. This is a great way for us to just hit the podcast and just go through, and this is what I do, just go through some of the shows that I wasn't able to attend and see what the other hosts were saying. So, how do you find these things? - Yeah, so first of all, great. theCube insights is the branding we have on it. We're on iTunes, We're on Spotify, We're on Google Play, Buzzsprout's what we use to be able to get it out there. It's an RSS on wikibon.com. I will embed them every once in a while or link to them. We plan to put them out, on average, it's once a week. We wanna have that regular cadence Typically on Thursday from a show that we've been out the spring season is really busy, so we've often been doing two a week at this point, but regular cadence, just podcasts are often a little tough to Google for so if you go into your favorite player and look at thecube insights and if you can't find it just hit you, me, somebody on the team up. - So you just searched thecube insights in one of those players? - Yeah absolutely, I've been sitting with a lot of people and right now it's been word of mouth, this is the first time we're actually really explaining what we're doing but thecube one word, insights is the second word I found it real quick in iTunes I find it in Google Play, Spotify is great for that and or your favorite podcast player Let us know if we're not there. - So maybe talk about some of the things we're seeing. - Yeah absolutely - The last few months. - So, right when we're here, what are our key learning? So for the last year or two Dave, I've really been helping look at the companies that are in this space, How are they dealing with multi cloud? And the refinement I've had in 2018 right now is that multi cloud or hybrid cloud seems to be, where everyone's Landing up and part of it is that everything in IT is heterogeneous but when I talk about a software company, really, where is their strength? are they an infrastructure company that really is trying to modernize what's happening in the data center are they born with cloud are they helping there? or are they really a software that can live in SAAS, in private cloud and public cloud? I kinda picture a company and where's their center of gravity? Do they lean very heavily towards private cloud, and they say public cloud it's too expensive and it's hard and You're gonna lose your job over it or are they somebody that's in the public cloud saying: there's nothing that should live in the data center and you should be a 100% public cloud, go adopt severless and it's great and the reality is that customers use a lot of these tools, lots of SAAS, multiple public Cloud for what they're doing and absolutely their stuff that's living in the data center And will continue for a long time. what do you see in it Dave? - My sort of takeaway in the last several months, half a year, a year is we used to talk about cloud big data, mobile and social as the forward drivers. I feel like it's kinda been there done that, That's getting a little bit long in the tooth and I think there's like the 3DS now, it's digital transformation, it's data first, is sort of the second D and disruption is the 3rd D And I think if you check on one of the podcast we did on scene digital, with David Michella. I think he did a really of laying out how the industry is changing there's a whole new set of words coming in, we're moving beyond that cloud big data, social mobile era into an era that's really defined by this matrix that he talks about. So check that out I won't go into it in detail here but at the top of that matrix is machine intelligence or what people call AI. And it's powering virtually everything and it's been embedded in all types of different applications and you clearly see that to the extent that organizations are able to Leverage the services, those digital services in that matrix, which are all about data, they're driving change. So it's digital transformation actually is real, data first really means You gotta put data at the core of your enterprise and if you look at the top five companies in terms of market cap the Googles, the Facebooks, the Amazons, the Microsofts Etc. Those top five companies are really data first. But People sometimes call data-driven, and then disruption everywhere, one of my favorite disruptions scenarios is of course crypto and blockchain And of course I have my book "The Enigma war" which is all about crypto, cryptography and we're seeing just massive Innovation going on as a result of both blockchain and crypto economics, so we've been really excited to cover, I think we've done eight or nine shows this year on crypto and blockchain. - Yeah it's an interesting one Dave because absolutely when you mention cryptocurrency and Bitcoin, there's still a lot of people in the room that look at you, Come on, there's crazy folks and it's money, it's speculation and it's ridiculous. What does that have to do with technology? But we've been covering for a couple of years now, the hyper ledger and some of these underlying pieces. You and I both watch Silicon Valley and I thought they actually did a really good job this year talking about the new distributed internet and how we're gonna build these things and that's really underneath one of the things that these technologies are building towards. - Well the internet was originally conceived as this decentralized network and well it physically is a decentralized network, it's owned essentially controlled by an oligopoly of behemoths and so what I've learned about cryptocurrency is that internet was built on protocols that were funded by the government and university collaboration so for instance SMTP Gmail's built on SMTP (mumbles) TCPIP, DNS Etc. Are all protocols that were funded essentially by the government, Linux itself came out of universities early developers didn't get paid for developing the technologies there and what happened after the big giants co-opted those protocols and basically now run the internet, development in those protocol stopped. Well Bitcoin and Ethereum and all these other protocols that are been developed around tokens, are driving innovation and building out really a new decentralized internet. So there's tons of innovation and funding going on, that I think people overlook the mainstream media talks all about fraud and these ICO's that are BS Etc. And there's certainly a lot of that it's the Wild West right now. But there's really a lot of high quality innovation going on, hard to tell what's gonna last and what's gonna fizzle but I guarantee there's some tech that's being developed that will stay the course. - Yeah I love....I believe you've read the Nick Carr book "The Shallows", Dave. He really talked about when we built the internet, there's two things one is like a push information, And that easy but building community and being able to share is really tough. I actually saw at an innovation conference I went to, the guy that created the pop-up ad like comes and he apologizes greatly, he said "I did a horrible horrible thing to the internet". - Yeah he did - Because I helped make it easier to have ads be how we monetize things, and the idea around the internet originally was how do I do micropayments? how do I really incent people to share? and that's one of the things we're looking at. - Ad base business models have an inherent incentive for large organizations that are centralized to basically co-opt our data and do onerous things with them And that's clearly what's happened. users wanna take back control of their data and so you're seeing this, they call it a Matrix. Silicon Valley I think you're right did a good job of laying that out, the show was actually sometimes half amazingly accurate and so a lot of development going on there. Anywhere you see a centralized, so called trusted third-party where they're a gatekeeper and they're adjudicating essentially. That's where crypto and token economics is really attacking, it's the confluence of software engineering, Cryptography and game theory. This is the other beautiful thing about crypto is that there is alignment of incentives between the investor, the entrepreneur, the customer and the product community. and so right now everybody is winning, maybe it's a bubble but usually when these bubbles burst something lives on, i got some beautiful tulips in my front yard. - Yeah so I love getting Insight into the things that you've been thinking of, John Furrier, the team, Peter Borus, our whole analyst team. Let's bring it back to thecube for a second Dave, we've done a ton of interviews I'm almost up to 200 views this year we did 1600 as a team last year. I'll mention two because one, I was absolutely giddy and you helped me get this interview, Walter isaacson at The Dell Show, One of my favorite authors I'm working through his DaVinci book right now which is amazing he talks about how a humanities and technology, the Marrying of that. Of course a lot of people read the Steve Jobs interview, I love the Einstein book that he did, the innovators. But if you listen to the Michael Dell interview that I did and then the Walter isaacson I think he might be working on a biography of Michael Dell, which i've talk to a lot of people, and they're like i'd love to read that. He's brilliant, amazing guy I can't tell you how many people have stopped me and said I listened to that Michael Dell interview. The other one, Customers. Love talking about customers especially people that they're chewing glass, they're breaking down new barriers. Key Toms and I interviewed It was Vijay Luthra from Northern trust. Kissed a chicago guy And he's like "this is one of the oldest and most conservative financial institutions out there". And they're actually gonna be on the stage at DockerCon talking about containers they're playing with severless technology, how the financial institutions get involved in the data economy, Leverage this kind of environment while still maintaining security so it was one that I really enjoyed. How about...... what's jumped out of you in all your years? - (Mumbles) reminds me of the quote (mumbles) software is eating the world, well data is eating software so every company is.... it reminds me of the NASDAQ interview that I did Recently and all we talked about, we didn't talk about their IT, we talked about how they're pointing their technology to help other exchanges get launched around the world and so it's a classic case of procurer of technology now becoming a seller of technology, and we've seen that everywhere. I think what's gonna be interesting Stu is AI, I think that more AI is gonna be bought, than built by these companies and that's how they will close the gap, I don't think the average everyday global 2000 company is gonna be an AI innovator in terms of what they develop, I think how they apply it is where the Innovation is gonna be. - Yeah Dave we had this discussion when it was (mumbles) It was the practitioners that will Leverage this will make a whole lot more money than the people that made it. - We're certainly seeing that. - Yeah I saw.....I said like Linux became pervasive, it took RedHat a long time to become a billion dollar company, because the open stack go along way there. Any final thoughts you wanna go on Dave? - Well so yeah, check out thecube.net, check out thecube insights, find that on whatever your favorite podcast player is, we're gonna be all over the place thecube.net will tell you where we're gonna be obviously, siliconangle.com, wikibon.com for all the research. - Alright and be sure to hit us up on Twitter if you have questions. He's D Villante on twitter, Angus stu S-T-U, Furrier is @Furrier, Peter Borus is PL Borus on twitter, Our whole team. wikibon.com for the research, siliconangle.com for the news and of course thecube.net for all the video. - And @ TheCube - And @TheCube of course on Twitter for our main feed And we're also up on Instagram now, so check out thecube signal on one word, give you a little bit of behind the scenes fun our phenomenal production team help to bring the buzz and the energy for all the things we do so for Dave Vellante, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks so much for listening to this special episode of thecube insights. 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>> Announcer: From Gillette Stadium, in Foxborough, Massachusets, it's theCUBE. Covering VTUG Winter Warmer 2018 presented by siliconANGLE. >> I'm Stu Miniman, and this is siliconANGLE Media's production of theCUBE at the VTUG Winter Warmer 2018. It's the 12th year of the event, the fifth year we've actually had theCUBE here. Dave Vellante, my boss, was here the first year. Every other year, I've been kind of manning it solo. Great community here, I talked to a lot of users and really looking at, you know, some of the transitions that are happening in the industry. This event is all about virtualization and Cloud, and to help me put an exclamation point on everything we've been looking at here, and what's happening in the industry, happen to welcome back to the program Rob Strechay who is the SVP of product at Zerto, someone I've known for longer than I even realize, and you know, been on the program many times, But first time since you've been at Zerto. >> Yeah, first time since I was at Hewlett-Packer Enterprise. So, I'm glad to join you guys here, and great event, glad to be able to get down here today. >> You know, Zerto, company we've known for many years. I happen to know one of the earliest investors in the company, and you know, when I look at two of the biggest industry shows, when you talk about Virtualization and Cloud, it's VMworld and it's Amazon's Reinvent show. >> Right. And, I remember like the first or second year we did Amazon Reinvent, the Zerto booth was like right behind us, and so your company that really spans that gammon, helping customers with that, so I want to get your viewpoint, you talked about why people come here, but what are you hearing from the users? What are some of the big challenges they're facing, and how are they looking to manage some of those transitions? >> Yeah, I think it's really critical to have events like this that are, you know, a lot of different vendors that are here because I think when we see a number of companies going out and looking, and I was with a customer down in New York City yesterday, the software for FinTac. And what they were looking at is, how do we leverage multi-cloud? It becomes very important. They're looking at, it's not going to just be Amazon, it's not just going to be Azure, it's not going to be VMC on AWUS, they're looking at how they're going to have a multi-cloud strategy. And I think that when, what we're hearing from customers is there's a lot of confusion in the market, and I think that's why this program and others are really great at cutting through what is real, what's not real, how do you look for the ability to have that data mobility between clouds but with security. Especially today's like Privacy Day, you know, on the 25th, so, you know, you start to look at it and go, hey, security's a big thing, and a big theme from what people were saying here today too. >> Yeah, and one of the user interviews I really loved today talked about one of the biggest challenges he saw, he said, gosh, security, think about the Intel discussion there, what's that going to mean? And he actually said, performance issue actually doesn't fit, isn't a big deal for him from an architectural standpoint. Security? Oh my gosh, he's in healthcare. (laughs) If he's in violation, or if patient information gets out there, you know, this is the kind of things that put companies out of business. >> Absolutely, yeah, and I think that's what we're hearing. I mean, especially yesterday, it was okay, how do you layer encryption on top of your solution? How do you utilize the different types of secure transfers? How do you make sure the data is secure? There's a lot about that resiliency of the data, and making sure you can get it back, and it's immutable for that matter. >> Yeah, one of the things when we talk to customers, it's funny, in the industry we're always arguing as to what's the right terminology? It's like, I still get to have a company that said they had a convergence problem that they were trying to fix, and also it's like, hyper-cloud, multi-cloud, no, they have a Cloud strategy. And yes, they're using sass, yes, they're using public Cloud, and yes, almost everybody's got something in their data center. How do we get our arms around it? How do I have the services that work with me wherever I am, whether that's data protection, security, replications. So where's Zetro fit in that discussion, and how are customers doing at getting their arms around these challenges? >> So I think a lot of when I'm out talking to the CIO's and the VP's of infrastructure and having those conversations, a lot of what we help them understand is here's where you need to go, and here's the choices you need to make. Are you going to use Azure? Do you have an EA with Microsoft? Because you've probably been paying for Azure credits that you're not using, so start there. It's simple, it cost you nothing extra. Get your feet wet, dip your feet in there. We see a lot of customers of ours that use DR's as a service as the first stepping stone to getting into the Cloud. It's a nice, easy way in, they can get their feet wet, they can test out the performance, the security, they can do user acceptance testing without actually having to go there. They can also get a realistic view of the cost. I think that was talked about earlier today too. With some of the Amazon stuff is that really, you have to understand the cost. It's not the same as owning it on Prime. But then again you're not having the on Prime anymore, so if you can get away with that, when we see people taking strategies, a lot of it is data center consolidation, but maybe now I'm down from six data centers to two. And I still need to have that third copy. Where do I put that third copy? Do I put it at another data center? Do I go to a manage service provider, cloud service provider, or do I go to the public cloud? So, what we try to do is offer them a platform, the Zerto platform, that can actually take them to all those different places. We can take them there and bring them back. Yes, people use use for DR, but really that data mobility and the data flexibility really helps them stay away from the vendor lock-in as well. >> What are you hearing from customers when they talk about vendor lock in? There's very few companies out there that do a good job at being, it's like, oh, the VM ware, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, we can actually help you across the board there. >> Rob: Yeah. >> How much is lock-in a concern, and how do you as a software company stay agnostic and still fit into all of those environments? >> Yeah, the staying agnostic is really tough because some people are nicer than others, you know, to work with, and you know you try to not pick your favorites, but a the same time, we let our customers drive us to where they are going. I think that when we started to look at the bigger picture, people start out, you know, Amazon's the 800 pound gorilla in the space, everyone tries Amazon first. Maybe they didn't like or have the experience they thought they would, it was a lot more work than they thought it was going to be, so they start to look at other options. So when we started out, in 2014 we've been shipping our to Amazon, DR to Amazon part of our platform. Now, over the last year, we've added in the go-to and go-back from Azure, and we'll soon release the next iteration of that next month that will take even further among and across those different platforms. And I think to your point, it's a how can we give our customers choice? If you want to use a manage service provider, such as an IBM where they're based on Cloud foundation from VMWare, you can use that. If you want to then go from there to Amazon, our product will actually enable you to do that. And I think that's what we can do is look at our customers, and they've, luckily enough, driven us to this heterogeneous cloud environment. >> I want to get your comment on something. When people talk about compute moving to a more utility model, but it's not the way utility was where if I'm getting energy, as a consumer, from one place or another, I don't care whether it's wind, solar, or coal, nuclear, because I'm just getting it. When I look at Cloud computing, even infrastructure's a service. There's things that need to happen. When I talk to most software companies, it's yes, I'm going to support across the board, but there's special integration. There's things that I can do to make Amazon better, Azure better, Google better, and it's all a little bit different, and even with things like cooper netties, it's not homonogizing IT. The big problem we see out there is IT is a heterogeneous mess. There's never killing anything, it's all add this and add this, and now we've got a bad episode of Hoarders. >> Yes. (laughing) >> Is what we got, so I'm curious from a customer standpoint and from a product standpoint, maybe you know you could talk a little bit about that. >> I think our customers have been very clear to us that's simplicity, and I think that's what you're getting at is that simplicity is job one for us. If we're not being simple about what we do, and we're not really trying to make it all that one platform, we're not doing our job. We're doing a disservice our customers. So our Azure product looks identical to our AWS looks identical to our IBM looks identical to one of my other cloud service provider's products. Looks the same as your on Prime VMWare to VMWare or VMWare to HyperV for that matter. I think that part of it is that we've taken an approach that, exactly that. We got to be heterogeneous, but we've got to make it all look the same and be the same user experience. So, I think what we as an industry can do better is really focusing on user experience and single platform to help across these because like you said, we have a customer, he uses both AWS and Azure. And he was on of our first customers on AWS and one of our first customers using our Azure product. He said that certain Linux systems actually run better on Azure than they did on Amazon, and that surprised him. But he was able to go up and test them out, put them up there, felt them over, and do them in a test bubble, and see how well they ran, and I think to your exact point it's that was a surprise to him, and I think it's that your mileage will vary with the different clouds, and being able to go there and test on them is very important 'cause you're going to find that, like he did, he's a smaller company, it's a refabrics manufacturer, TenCate, they really focused on having that multicloud strategy because for them, they didn't want to have all their eggs in one basket either, but they found that certain applications ran better on Azure, certain ran better on AWS, so they're going to have that multicloud strategy. >> Alright, Rob, help bring us home. What brings Zerto to an event like this, kind of user groups in general, to VTUG specifically? >> Yeah, so the VTUG, we've been a long term supporter of this, I think since pretty much the founding of the founding of the company, so one of the reasons is a lot of out customers come to... So, we want to support them getting more knowledge out there, obviously we get to reach more customers and more potential customers, but at the same time, it's about the community and building that community. We look for more, in fact, we're starting to do even local user groups of our own. We've seen that the user groups have fallen off, and in particular around disaster recovery, in the IT resiliency, there's really no place to go. You had ISACA, you had different organizations for certifications, but really, that community where I can go and understand what are my peers doing, and get that group learning is so important, and that's why we've been a long term supporter of this. >> Alright, well Rob Strechay, really appreciate you helping me wrap up, put an exclamation point on what's going on here at the show as well as in the industry are all the major changes happening, virtualization and Cloud. Make sure to check out TheCUBE.net for all of our coverage. We have a huge line up of 2018 events. Feel free to reach out to the team. As always, I'm really to get on Twitter, I'm just @stu, @-S-T-U, and thank you so much of watching, I'm Stu Miniman, and you've been watching theCUBE. (techno music)