>>And welcome back to the cubes coverage of coop con cloud native con 2021. We're in person physical venom, John free hosted a Q a Dave Nicholson, my CO's and Emma Laney, who is our not so roving reporter unemployed, software engineer, unemployed comedian. Great to have you on the cube. >>Thank you for that list of credentials. >>You're doing great. I saw you're having some fun down there. We've got this new show or testing out called the grill. Here it is. Okay. Um, what's the focus, what's the story behind everything. >>Uh, the focus of the show is trying to have some fun with tech. You know, tech has a lot of self seriousness. Uh, there's a lot that's ripe to make fun of. We're also having fun. We're not trying to grill people in. We're not trying to roast them. Right? We're having people come through. They're sharing funny stories. We're having a contest to find the best man split nation of Kubernetes. Right now, I got to say, a woman is in the lead. Oh, she killed that contest, like called me, sweetie. And everything. It just proves that it's not about the man. You identify as it's about the condensation in your heart when it comes to mansplaining. >>Um, what is the best criteria that you, when you get a candidate for the mansplaining competition, what is the criteria? >>I mean, number one, we're looking for condensation. You get extra points for you, the phrase, well, actually we want a supercilious attitude. Uh, if you are partially into explaining it and then you stop yourself because you think you've used too technical of a term and then step it down, all of those gets you extra points in the mansplaining. >>Can I ask you, what's your biggest observation as you kind of look at this ecosystem? I mean, it's a big event, but it's, COVID postpone even in COVID people are wearing masks, not wearing masks. >>I mean, people are wearing masks for the most part. Uh, you know, I did love this, uh, red light, yellow light green light system. They came up with green, meaning please touch me. I've been inside for too long red meaning I still care about COVID yellow. You know, ask me, we'll figure it >>Out. All right. What's the funniest thing you've heard so far. >>The funniest thing I have to say, I asked someone what their favorite tech joke is. And he said it worked on my computer That really stirred up some memories. >>Oh man, we're in LA though. This is a great area. It's literally with the best comedians you could think of or work their way through the system. But with techno and everything is tech with gadgets and with like Kubernetes, I mean, it's, it's the material writes itself. I mean, >>Surely >>You must be having, >>Oh, I'm definitely having a ton of fun. Uh, I wouldn't say the material writes itself. I would say hire me to write material, but it is quite a fertile. >>Okay. What would you write for, uh, looking at the keynote today? Looking at the vibe here, obviously a lot of people show because they're remote, but visually it's a packed house here, but what's your first comedic view of the, as the fog lifts in this community? >>I have to say the thing that really stuck out to me from the keynote addresses was that people have not yet adjusted to being in person. There were some very, very delayed applause breaks where people realize they were not muted watching on a screen and you'd still go, oh, that's right. We should interact. Like God bless those speakers. It's uh, people have been inside for a long time. >>Um, part-time comedian too. I mean, co-hosting queue. Um, I don't, I, >>I don't find anything funny with technology. And I'm curious when you use the word supercilious, is that a, is that a comedic term? I, I, yes. >>I heard that before. It's the Latin form of super silly. Yeah. Which is my brand of comedy. >>So the mansplaining, I don't know if you need to like, woman's plane, some of this stuff to me, but I'll English >>Major Splain. Okay. Okay. Super silliest. >>It sounds super silly. So is it, is it, is it okay to have a ringer come in and attempt make an attempt at the mansplaining or >>Okay. A hundred >>Percent come in wearing it. >>I'm trying to make this a safe space for women at the conference. I'm the only woman you should be mansplaining to. I'm a martyr falling on the sword of mansplaining for all the great technical women at this conference. You slip that in >>And translate that. >>Of course, John, I don't know how to explain that to them more detailed. Um, what I love about the vibe is that this technical people they're snarky. If you get at their core, I mean, we were at the bar. Everyone was like totally leaning into like comedy and more fun because it's almost like they're bust out, come out of the closet and beat comedian. >>Oh, there is a broiling anger in the soul of every developer and every person who's worked on technology. And the question is going to be, can we get it on camera when they are not drunk, we're doing our >>Best to drink. These developers don't >>Think, oh, they do desperately. >>We saw a few partaking in the bar at the GTA merit and a lot going on. You had the, you know, they had warriors game going on. You have a lot of Dodgers were playing the giants. So pretty active bar scene for this crowd. >>Yeah, no, it was, uh, it was very fun. I personally was disappointed that the warriors are not actually staying in our hotel. You know, if this software thing doesn't work out, NBA wife is a possible second. >>And the Ritz Carlton was right behind us. You could be right there too. All right. So the grill is, uh, an experiment. We're having some fun with it, but the purpose is to just chill a bit. What's the, what would you say the goal of the show is for you? >>I'd say the goal is to get people to come out of their shells a little bit, to have some fun, to poke fun at some of the tendencies that we see in tech that we often don't bring up. You know, like I'm having so much fun with the man's pollination. Uh, I've lived it a bit. And my favorite is, uh, as I asked men to mansplain it to me, the panic in their eyes, that's my ultimate goal is just to make men afraid. >>And the panic is because they don't know if they're mansplaining all the time or actually purposely mansplaining is hard enough, but they do it naturally. Sorry. >>I have three daughters and I can't wait for them to see this stuff. I cannot >>Wait. That's going to be >>Great. Well, we have cooler gen Z. >>Well, we have t-shirts right. Let me see the t-shirts give everyone a quick, if you come on, this is day one of coupons. So if you do come on the show with the grill, I'm the t-shirt ferry. The grill is real. It's like the V the cubes version of the view, but >>Wow, just because I'm a woman, the, uh, the t-shirt is a big incentive. I'm sure a lot of people go to tech conferences don't get any free. T-shirts good. >>I got grilled by a net. Lilium, the cube at cube con con not cube >>Con. It's a medium rare grilling. >>I couldn't resist the view jokes. I know I'm in color. We'll keep our day jobs here in the comedian angle. We got to >>Believe that's true. Yes. When I look at the wavelengths of >>Light on that, I'm super stoked to have you try that. I think it's a great program, Greg. God. So you guys doing a great job, loved the vibe, love the energy, love the creativity, having some fun. See the poster one last time. And the idea is to have some fun, right? It's a tough time. We're all coming back from the pandemic, welcoming back from the pandemic. And this is just a fun way to kind of let the air out and have some fun. So thanks for everyone. Thank you so much for doing that. Thank you. All right. Cute coverage here. Coop gone. Cloud native con I'm John Perry, David Nicholson. Be back with more day, one coverage of three days after the short break.

>> from Washington, D. C. It's the queue covering science logic. Symposium twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Science Logic. >> Hi, I'm student men and this is the Cubes coverage of Science Logic. Symposium twenty nineteen here at the Ritz Carlton in Washington, D. C. Been four hundred sixty. People here just finished the afternoon Kino, and they've actually gone off to the evening event. It's thie yet to be finished. Spy Museum. They get a good three sixty view of Washington D. C. So the hallways are a little echoing in quiet but really excited to have on the final guest of the day. Eric Gordon, who's the vice president of business development and alliances as science logic. Erik, thanks so much for joining me, >> thanks to you. Great to be here. >> All right, so busy. Dev and Alliances. I've talked to a number of your partner's. I've gone through a lot of things, but you wear, I think, just like your CEO. A few different hats. Ah, and your old let's let's get into what your role is that the company? >> Yeah, it's actually changed over time, but for the most part I've to court responsibilities. One is I'm looking after our ecosystem of technology partners. And so we have from key strategic CE that we work with in the marketplace, in the cloud space on the data center, all across the ecosystem, a lot of different technologies. But we also have products that we resell input on our priceless that combined to create a solution for our customers in the second half of what my responsible is really focused on. What is our product strategy around integration? Automation? Because those Air Corps components to our platform and I look after that with several different teams. >> So let's talk about that the ecosystem pit person, the alliances. Because I got a lot of shows. I talked to a lot of companies, and it's all too easy for companies to be like, Oh, we're we're the best and we do so many different things. And when I first heard about the space in a ops, it's like, Oh, well, I I Ops is replacing a lot of waves and, you know, your average customer replaces fourteen tools. I heard there's one customer who replaces fifty tools, but at the same time, there was a strong focus about integrations in deeper even some of the products that you say, Yeah, there's overlap in that competitive, you know, you're working with those environments, so give us a little bit of the philosophy, how you balance that, you know, we want to do it all and help our customers to do lots of different things. And especially when you get to big customers and service providers, we understand that it's a big world and there never is that, you know, mythical single pane of glass. >> Yeah, no, totally agree. And we hear this a lot. You know, I've got a tool for this. I got a tool for that and or I had to Vendor come in and say that they could do it all. And you know, really, At the end of the day, if there's there's no one vendor on DH, you know the Venn diagrams of functionalities, air overlapping. That's the nature of the industry. And when we saw this on the early days of it with the big monopolies. But I think right now it's it's around. How do we saw the customer problem? Mohr effectively, From our perspective, we look at the combination of things. First is is what solutions out there give us good data data that we can use data that we can enrich, how we can leverage that to help drive better insights from other types of data that we collect so that theirs is where integration is a keep part of this on DH. What we know is that ultimately in our space, we're doing about monitoring a core collection. We're goingto have to click with everybody, so we're gonna have to integrate with any partner that might have some form of I. P are connected through an I p address to some sort of a p I. We need that data. So we have partnerships on that side. I think really, what's interesting is when we think about things like workflow or orchestration or types of mediation, we might integrate with other technologies to enrich that data further. So we look for partners that ultimately our customers air using things that we can do consolidation and drive better outcome with that enrich date experience. >> Yes, so let's drill down one little bit if you talk about like, you know a PM and SM tools out there some recent announcements and and you digging deeper on there. What what are some of the highlights? So one >> thing is, if you already have, like, agents are often come up, Our customs says, Well, I've got an A P M. Agent that's already doing some things. Well, that's great. We can leverage that, that there's some good insight that we can gather from either to apologies or other metrics or like in user experience. But we also go deeper on other aspects, like on the network side or on the infrastructure side, or on the the cloud service aside. So, you know, ultimately, it's a conversation of say, what? What can we leverage? What, what's accurate, what's in real time? And if there's things that we can, you know, gather, then that's our primary strategy. So I you know, I do think the ecosystem plays a key role in a i ops, but really, to do that, it's run automation because anything that we do, we have to do with scale and we have to do with security. We have to do it with the intent of driving some form of outcome. And so, you know, those are the key principles behind selecting technology partners. >> Okay, Let's talk some about that automation. It was a big discussion in the keynote this morning. Really talking about the maturity model. One of the analysts up there says you really want to make sure you separate things like, you know, the machine learning piece of it with the automation. The observation I've made a couple of times is, you know, yes. We all know you can automate a really bad process. And so I need toe, you know, make sure, you know, do I have good data And, you know, how am I making automation make me better Not just, you know, to change things. >> Yeah, well, I think it's Science Lodge that we look at. Automation is in every part of what we do within the product. From the from the collection of how we automate it scale how we consolidate that data. And then we're doing a lot of the data preparation using automation technologies. And then when we start to analyze and enrich that data, we're also using it Other algorithmic approaches, for example, topology and context. So if we know that some things connected weaken Dr An automation to make an inference and that data then feeds into the final step, which is around how we action on that. So we drive automation in the classic sense to say trigger workflow or, let's say, update another system of record or system of truth like a C M G B or a notification. And so one of things that we did hear from Garden this morning is engaging in an SM process. Is a core part of AI ai ops as muchas data collection and driving other forms of automation. >> All right, Do you have some examples of you know how automation you're helping your customers love any customer stories you've got along that line? >> Well, >> really. You know, there's so many stories we're hearing the halls of Symposium, and so it's it's it's hard to pick one, but, you know, I think all ten times what we say is, what what's driving your service desk time like you've got people you know, looking at all of these different dispirit systems, and we can look at it. Let's say a top end of your most sort of frequented events or alerts, or even look at your top service desk incidents and say, How could we automate that, you know. And some of that automation could be at the technology level, you know, simplest as restarting a service or prove you re provisioning of'Em. Or it could be clearing a log or even maybe shutting down an event because it's irrelevant. So there's There's several different examples in the cloud as well. Terms of how things air provisioning attached. And if we see something out of a policy, we can alarm that say, hey, maybe my storage costs are going to accelerate because someone made a bad change. So there's different ways that we can apply automation during the life cycle. But I think enhancing the service management component perhaps is one of the most impactful ones, >> you know. So, Eric, we azan industry automation been something we've been talking about for quite a while now, and they're they're sometimes pushback of, you know, from the end, users especially, you know, some of the practitioners out there as you know. Well, I could do it better. You know, the fear that you're going to lose your job. How are you seeing that progressing and you know, how were things different today? Both from a technology standpoint, as well as from your customers. Can't wait. >> I think if you asked any enterprise CIA already service provider, service delivery manager, they'd always say, I'd love to operate as much as I can when you get down on the practitioner level. You know, obviously I think there's some sort. Like I I do my job, Thank you very much. I have my favorite wit, my process. So I think there's a conversation depending on. You know, if we're saying hey from the practitioner side, is there set of data that you need or set of scripts? Or are things that you're doing manually that we can put into a workflow? And at the at the business layer, it's like, Do you feel like you're getting the value from some of the investments you've made? And is, how is automation? Help you realize that an example there is. We see oftentimes is around the quality of data that's going into the C, M. D. B and from AA AA. Lot of times we see that their investment in technology is like service now, and other platforms is fairly high expense, and they want to optimize that, and they want to realize the power of automation at the at the service level. So if we can, if we can convince, if you will, through a set of really concrete use cases that the data coming from science logic at the speed and the quality can actually improve the seemed to be to >> the level of >> really efficient automation. All of a sudden, people start to see that as a change as an opportunity. And that's where I think a I Ops is helping change the narrative, to say how automation Khun B really, really applied rather than just being this mystical concept that is hard to do. And, you know, people don't liketo think that a robot's taking their job. I think what's gonna happen is that machine learning algorithms are going to make jobs easier and, you know, ultimately were far, far from the point where a ized doing something and some sort of, you know, crazy automata way. But I think it's the deep learning, moving a machine learning to you. No good quality data sets that dr meaningful insights that's giving us a lot better view until where automation could play in the >> future. Yeah, absolutely. It's our belief that you know, automation. There's certain things that you probably don't want to do because repetitive, it's boring or mistake prone on DH. Therefore, you know automation can really help those environments move forward. You could move up the stack. You can manage those environment. There's definitely some retraining that that needs to happen often. But you know that the danger is if you're if you're doing now what you were doing five years ago, chances are your competition is moving along and, you know, finding a better way to do it. >> You know, just a point on this soup is really around the velocity of data that's coming in. So we're seeing, you know, we talked about the three bees. You know, the volume of data. You have to use automation to be able to manage that huge amount of different data sources, the variety. There's no human that can process the amount of machine information from the amount of technologies that you have on DH that you know. Obviously it's speed, right. The velocity and that is that is clearly not going to be something that any human could be capable of doing. And so there's a relationship here between technology and human processes and science logics and a really interesting position right now to really kind of help with that process. But more importantly, accelerate the value by being all to process it and make it intelligent. >> Wait, Erica, you're saying I'm not neo from the Matrix and I can't, you know, read through everything and be able to move faster than physics allows. Give >> yourself maybe fifteen, twenty years. We might be. You know that that you know, I don't think that that many people can really predict the impact of the you know, we'LL say machinery, evolving toe, artificial intelligence and there's it's going to be very used, case specific. But we do know one thing is that algorithms? Air helping. But algorithms are dependent on that clean data stack, right? And And if you can't handle the scale, then obviously there's going. It's going to be minimized in terms. Is total utility >> alright? Well, Eric, I get the good to let you give us that the final word from science logic from Symposium twenty nineteen on the Cube. >> So you know, the first thing is is this is there's two things that we learned from this event. The first thing is, is how our customers you're evolving in this dynamic space. And what we know is that if if you don't change, it's going to be a problem. Because the only consistent thing is change and change is happening faster on it. And we call that disruption. And so what we want to do is we want to understand how science AJ is a technology company. I can really help that customer go through that transition with confidence. And then, more importantly, is what could we do? Delivering better, more enrich solutions to our customers that actually are changing the way the game is played. And so we feel like we're a disrupter in the A ops market. We are. Certainly Forrester has helped us recognize that. But But we're not done work. We're continuing on this journey. >> All right, Well, Eric, routine. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and the journey towards Aye, Aye, Ops. Thanks so much to. All right. Well, that comes to an end of what we're doing here at science Logic. Symposium twenty nineteen. I know. I learned a lot. I hope you did too. I'm stew Minutemen. Thanks so much from our whole crew. Here it's Silicon Angle Media's The Cube. Check out the cube dot net for all the videos from this show, as well as where we'LL be in the future. Reach out if you have any questions and once again, thanks for joining us.

>> from Washington, D. C. It's the queue covering science logic. Symposium twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Science Logic >> Hi, I'm student men and this is the Cubes coverage of Science Logic. Symposium twenty nineteen here at the Ritz Carlton in Washington, D. C. First of all, want Welcome back to the program. Roger Putnam, Who's the vice president of Global Solutions? That science logic Thanks for coming back and what with programme A first time Rob Gruner listed is this loosened architect from Telstra. But >> Rob, I actually had >> a chance to talk to some of your co ords there, they said. Arav robs a wizard. He's an engineer that does everything. So you know, solutions. Architect. Of course, we know that they're out there. They do a lot of different things and asleep, leased. Your peers say you're somebody that does quite a lot of different >> things. Did Jack of All trades master of none unfortunate >> way? It's all right, don't you know it is in vogue now to be, you know, a generalist. It's, you know, we've gone from specialties to well, oh no, it's it's platforms and everything's going to be everything, so I have plenty of background with Telstra, but maybe talk a little bit about you know, your role in the organization and what what kind of things you're involved in. Since you know some of those trades that you >> are jack of all, >> probably our spies have come into Telstra's an acquisition. So, you know, working for small company, you tend to do everything on. For some reason, I've been allowed to continue to do that on developing expertise around science logic. And that means I've been involved across a lot of areas of the business as we've been adopting science logic more widely, and it's been quite interesting. Process means eye contact, that expertise and then see how it's applied across the organization. So it's been quite interesting, >> awesome. One of things that's been interested in me and in talking to service Friday is talking to the enterprise customers is two. You know how many tools they had, how many they replaced with science logic, but also what things it's integrating with and working with. It was a big focus on the keynote this morning is, you know, integrations with Sam and you know all these various pieces, so maybe give us a little bit of kind of the scope. You know how long's tells me you've been using science logic, How broads the deployment and you know what? What? What does it do in? What does it tie into >> a tte? The mammoth is more enterprise focused. So on. That's the area. Tell Stur I come from so it's really around delivering services to her customers. Quite recently, we've seen then looking in deploying science logic across their carriage spokes and managing services there. That's quite a large deployment. You know, we're quite happy with that in terms of what is going to be doing for the business on the integrations, their endless. So Telstra, like a lot of large organizations, has a lot of different systems to talk to. A lot of different service dis, depending on the operational areas. So in service now is one of those. But it's a hollow of other stuff on, so that's a very challenging process. And sounds objects being pretty good at, you know, spreading itself around. Those >> give us a little insight as to you know, how fast things are changing. You know, hear Kafka and Streams and, you know, constantly moving I've been looking at the, you know, communities and container stuff that's happening, which is which is fast moving. So >> are definitely say it. And Telstra's trying as hard as akin to move as quickly as the market can allowed. So definitely it's virtual izing. ITT's automating II ops is a big component of what we're doing. It is extremely important for the business. >> Okay, so Alps is something you're doing have to We're not as mature as we'd like to video. I'm not sure if you saw the keynote this morning, but they put out a maturity models So would love for you to, you know, where are you when you look at that? They kind of had the three criterias there is. There's kind of the the machine learning, there's the automation and I'm trying to remember the third piece that was there, but you know where where are you today? You know, how'd you get there? And you know what? What's what's a little bit of the road map going forward? >> I think it might be probably our ambitions to be in that the upper end of the spectrum and into remediation, But that's an ambition and I think we've got a while to go with that. So, uh, more than that, I can't coming off >> its interests. So they have that The keynote tomorrow they're going. Jean Kim speaking on the deaf ops. And, you know, I'm a big fan of the Phoenix project and they talked about, you know, the jack of all trades that does it all. He could sometimes be the bottleneck in the system. Absolutely. Because you can't be up. I need something fixed. Well, we'LL go to Rob Rob all fix it. That's great. That fire floating mode. I know I've done that in my career, and it's one of those things. Oh, jeez, you're never going to move at this job because you're replaceable. It's like that's a dangerous place to be. >> It is s >> o. You know, we talk a little bit about, you know, you said, you know, science logic. You know that they position themselves as this is going to help you move that, you know, machine speed and keep up with that. Give us a little bit the reality of what you're seeing. How what does that impact your job? Your organization? >> Look, I think sounds logic has done a wonderful job within the organization. It's it's the legacy infrastructure within any organization, particularly tells her scale. That's really holding you back on. There's a lot of Well, I think people level with Intel Street. Move as quickly as we can, but we have such a large number of legacy systems to deal with. You know, we're looking at one deployment of Sands object. We were looking at IDing systems to kill, So it's a big task >> the wonderful technical death that we've all inherited. So So you know, Roger, you know, this something we hear from all customers. It'd be lovely if I had the mythical, you know, unicorn that, you know, start from the ground up and you know, he can start afresh. But we always have to have that mix and give it a little bit about what you're seeing. You know, about the Telstra in a little bit broader, You know, >> I think what tell us she has done really well with taking advantage of our technology was they didn't come in with this attitude of would rip out everything that we have and just have a magic easy bun. Software doesn't work that way. I think we've all learned the lessons of tough deployments when you try to stay out of fix everything. So they came in with a really gradual, phased approach of Get a couple pieces done where they had gaps. You start to fill those gaps. What's happening during the last few years as we've seen the shift greater change and they've taken advantage of the platforms, nationalities a hole as they go through their digitization efforts. And so as they digitize, they taking this step by step by step approach to you know what you were saying earlier with Rob does. He doesn't answer the question of being the one man band, but they did was they build it all process wise, using software to drive the automation. So once it's done one time, you're not stuck on the person anymore. And so I think when we look at our most successful customers like Telstra, it's because they've had this gradual, phased approach where they're using software rather than single person bottlenecks. And rather than having these tiger teams to try to solve problems and moving towards a better process to take advantage of the world, we're in today. So how >> do you measure success? You know, what are some of the business outcomes or, you know, k p I's that you understand how you're moving from kind of where you were to where you want to be. >> Uh, that's a difficult one to answer because particularly sounds, logic was used in so many different context. So for a certain part of the business, we might say, Are we monitoring the full stack? I were giving customers real value invisibility through the whole dynamic of the business. And then, in another context, we using sound subject. We were just saying, We just need to deploy its scale. We need two one board as quickly as possible. We need to keep the cost down to a minimum. We need to keep events that's allow as possible. Okay, so it's more about the efficiency argument, so it's really depends and way we're trying to use it and how we're deploying it. So >> how do you have visibility across how everybody is doing and getting trained on the latest things and keeping up to date and sharing best practices? How do you manage that internally, and how do you how do you do you network with your peers on some of that? >> Well, we've tried Teo really within. Tell us we have a concept of centre of excellence. So it's really about, you know, being recognizes the business experts in particular area and allowing the business to understand. That's that. That's where the expertise sits on a certain we've done a very good job with that and then allowing and communicating that after the business as well. So it's a very tough asked. It's a big business. We have thirty thousand people so often one person doesn't know about another person, another floor on the buildings, you know, to try and spread it across the biz, since we have fifty officers worldwide. So it's a process, you >> know? I mean, Roger just want one of things that here is, you know, science logic. It's not a widget, and it's, you know, can fit in a lot of different environments and a lot of different uses. You know, I heard of, you know, strong emphasis in into training had your CEO on where in his wizard tat for for for the that the learning knowledge that was gonna happen. So you know you talk a little bit about how science logic is looking to address this, especially for some you know, large customers like Telstra. >> You know, I think there's a general skills gap in is a whole beyond our technology beyond what's taking place in the world today. And you know, I've been in the business for quite a while, and we've long focused on training the operator on how to utilize the technology to solve their specific problems. And while that those aspects really powerful, some of the things we've done recently to go a step further is when we hear similar questions. We started record all of those so our customers could watch videos of how to solve problems instead of just going onto some form and let me type some question and hope somebody responds to in the future. You have read it for that. So we've got a look at a better mechanism and video based training handheld handling the customers we can build out these use cases drives the platform value, and what Telstra does it's really unique is they use the platform less so from a perspective of can I manage X y Z technology. But what can I build on top of it? How can I break the platform to some extend? And Rob is a mad scientist for us here. I mean, could jump into this more. But they've broken the platform to solve those business needs by addressing them individually. And what we've done is we've taken his best practices, and we rolled them back out to the rest of our customers. So with Robin, tell Hsia and a couple of other really great customers were driving a better community and sense of community so less question, answer form, less traditional support, more video, more community, more share ability. And that's where you're going to get additional quality. Coming out from the products are being delivered. Makes sense to you, Robert. Absolutely. >> Yeah, Rob. I mean, I love any commentary on that. You know, the network effect of software especially would talk about Sasser as a service type things, you know, that's what sales force really came out. It was like a weight one customer. Ask for something and wake everybody. You can take advantage of that or something similar. So are you seeing that kind of dynamics today with science logic and with others >> well, perfectly within the Telstra business. Absolutely so by building a capital into one area, you can share it across. And we found that we've been able to then sell the system internally, your internal stakeholders, so they appreciate the value of it and we can build on that. And then our customers, whilst we don't necessarily lady with the product they can. They see what's going on, and they basically then take it on as a service as well. So it's very, very interesting process. >> So one thing we haven't talked about yet, but you talk about data, you know, what's the role of data in your environment is something that you know key to the platform from science logic. How you leveraging it? How's that changing in your environment? One of the opportunities there. >> It's interesting questions. So as the telco, we collect a lot of data on DA. Obviously we have federal agencies who make that a requirement as well. So we have an existing data like initiative on that's very full of moment, and science logic is where we're looking at how we can add to that the value, valuable information and provides, but like everyone else, is a lot of data to collect, and it's an interesting process to try and make sense out of it and react accordingly. I mean, as a business, we were responding to millions and millions events of a day. So it's, you know, it's a difficult thing. >> Yeah, one of things. When we look at things like you know, anything that requires training like machine learning or the like, There's the balance between I want to learn from everybody. But you know, you're in a competitive marketplace. I don't want my competitors necessarily to get things. So you know the software products usually Well, I can isolate, and it doesn't have specific information. But how do you look at that dynamic of making sure that you gain from what the industry is doing, but that, you know, you could still stay competitive in ahead of your competition? >> Uh, >> no. I don't have a necessary can answer that. I suppose my head's tied into really what I could do with a platform and how I can then bring new technologies into the company's. So that's really are spies remind spaces on, Really, it's what I'm focused on. So you know what we do with the daughter probably is. He's not necessarily big concerns. How >> about that? There was quite a lot of announcements this week. The number of integrations as well as you know, update to the product. Anything specifically that you've been waiting for or that has caught your eye, >> the service now integration. I think it is far more advanced than has been in the past. On we have aspect of the business used thinks over quite heavily. So the fact that that's now matured and much more robust and you know which sort of offering that'LL have a lot of impact on the business. So I definitely mean the machine learning is another great thing on the question of then how that develops over time. So we'LL see how that goes. You >> know, Roger loves you know what? When I've been digging into some is the feedback you've been getting from customers and what's been leading toe, you know, some of the enhancement. So I would love, love your take on what you're saying. >> You know, I think one of the things that tell Sharpe pushed us towards a few years back was we're going to build. We already have a data like we don't need you to function. Is there Data Lake? So its multiple different Veda lakes And this concept of how do I move later From one day to lake to a different data Lake lakes within lakes ponds. Whatever the terminology is today the data ocean, our family perfect. And I'm getting to that data ocean from our lake. We have to go get streaming data. So now I'm going to extremes against really geographic here. But, you know, Rob really pushed us to make sure we could go right to Kaka buses and pushed data out. So what do you do with the data? And so tell Strip has been a, you know, an early adopter of a lot of our technology. And by being an early adopter, they've pushed us in a number of directions. So I think when you see a lot of the functionality that we've released this week and we've announced, it's been because of our customer base because of our partners like Telstra, that need to drive the business for further and forward, especially the industry like Telco World, where everything is mobile everything's moving so fast and aggressively. They're really like a good sounding board for where we need to go and how do we get there and and that drive And that partnership is What I think I'm most excited about working with tell sure is they demand from us to be excellent, and that gets great product coming out. And we see the results this week with all of our customers excitingly looking at stream treating capability that Rob was pushing us for well in advance of anyone else. >> Yeah, Robin, I want to give you the final word. You know, I can't help but notice you actually co branded shirts you've got tell star on your arm wither with science logic there. So, obviously, more than just a vendor relationship there, maybe close us out with you know how important science logic is. Two to your business >> job, Critical part of the business. I mean, particularly where we're looking at the commodity aspect of many services, you know, we can't survive unless we can provide quality, invaluable information where customers and really sounds. Logic has been the key platform for that. So in some respects, we're resting, you know, an aspect of the business entirely and Scientology's hands and we're hoping they'LL deliver >> well, Robin Raj, Thank you so much for joining us. Just sharing all the progress that you've made in. You know where things were going? Thanks so much, thanks to all right. And I'm student men. This is the Cube at Science Logic Symposium twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching.

>> From Washington D.C. it's theCUBE covering ScienceLogic Symposium 2019. Brought to you by ScienceLogic. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's coverage of ScienceLogic Symposium 2019 here at The Ritz-Carlton in Washington D.C. About 460 people here, the events' grown about 50%, been digging in with a lot of the practitioners, the technical people as well as some of the partners. And for this session I'm happy to welcome to the program for the first time guest, Surendra who is the vice president and CTO for automation in IBM's global technology services. And joining us also is Dave Link who is the co-founder and CEO of ScienceLogic. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having us. >> Thanks for having us. >> Alright, so Surendra let's start with you. Anybody that knows IBM services at the core of your business, primary driver, large number of the presented to the employees at IBM are there. You've got automation in your title so, let's flush out a little bit for us, your part of the organization and your role there. >> Alright, so as you pointed out, IBM, a big part of IBM is services; it's a large component. And that two major parts of that and though we come together as one in terms of IBM services, one is much more focused on infrastructure services and the other one on business services. So, the automation I'm dealing with primarily is in the infrastructure services area which means all the way from resources you have in a persons data center going into now much more of course in a hybrid environment, hybrid multi-cloud, with different clouds out there including our own and providing the automation around that. And when we mean automation we mean the things that we have to do to keep our clients' environments healthy from a availability and performance standpoint; making sure that our environment then we respond to the changes that they need to the environment because it obviously evolves over time, we do that effectively and correctly and certainly another very important part is to make sure that they're secure and compliant. So, if you think of Maslow's hierarchy of the things that IT operations has to do that in a nutshell sums it up. That's what we do for our clients. >> Yeah, so Dave luckily we've got a one on one with you today to dig out lots of nuggets from the kino and talk a bit about the company but, you talk about IT operations and one of the pieces I've got infrastructure, I've got applications, ScienceLogic sits at an interesting place in this heterogeneous ever-changing world that we live in today. >> It does and the world's changing quickly because the clouds transforming the way people build applications. And that is causing a lot of applications to be refactored to take advantage of some of these technologies. The especially focused global scale we've seen them, we've used them, applications that we use on our phone. They require a different footprint and that requires then a different set of tools to manage an application that lives in the cloud and it also might live in a multi-cloud environment with some data coming from private clouds that populate information on public clouds. What we found is the tools industry is at a bit of a crossroads because the applications now need to be infrastructure aware, but the infrastructure could be served from a lot of different places, meaning they've got lots of data sources to sort together and contextualize to understand how they relate to one another real time. And that's the challenge that we've been focused on solving for our customers. >> Alright, Surendra I want to know if we can get a little bit more to automation and we talk automation, >> There's also IBM use for a number of years, the cognitive and there was the analyst that spoke in the kino this morning. He put cognitive as this overarching umbrella and underneath that you had the AI and underneath that you had that machine learning and deep learning pieces there. Can you help tease out a little bit for IBM global services in your customers? How do they think of the relationship between the MLAI cognitive piece in automation? >> So I think the way you laid it out, the way it was talked about this morning absolutely makes sense, so cognitive is a broad definition and then within that of course AI and the different techniques within AI, machine learning being one, natural language processing, national languages understanding which not as much statistically driven as being another type of AI. And we use all of these techniques to make our automation smarter. So, often times when we're trying to automate something, there can be very prescriptive type of automation, say a particular event comes in and then you take a response to it. But then often times you have situations where you have events especially what Dave was talking about; when an application is distributed not just a classic of distributed application, but now distributed of infrastructure you may have. Some of it may be running on the main frame, some of it actually running in different clouds. And all of this comes together, you have events and signals coming from all of this and trying to reason over where a problem may be originating from because now you have a slow performance. What's the reason for the slow performance? Trying to do some degree of root cause determination, problem determination; that's where some of the smarts comes in in terms of how we actually want to be able to diagnose a problem and then actually kick off maybe more diagnostics and eventually kick off actions to automatically fix that or give the practitioner the ability to fix that in a effective fashion. So that's one place. The other areas that one type of machine learning I shouldn't say one type, but deadly machine learning techniques lend themselves to that. There's another arena of causes a lot of knowledge and information buried in tickets and knowledge documents and things like that. And to be able to extract from that, the things that are most meaningful and that's where the natural language understanding comes in and now you marry that with the information that's coming from machines, which is far more contextualized. And to be able to reason over these two together and be able to make decisions, so that's where the automation. >> Wonder if we can actually, let's some of those terms I want to up level a little bit. I hear knowledge I hear information; the core of everything that people are doing these today, it's data. And what I heard, and was really illuminated to me listening to what I've seen of ScienceLogic is that data collection and leveraging and unlocking value of data is such an important piece of what they're doing. From an IBM standpoint and your customers, where does data fit into that whole discussion? How do things like ScienceLogic fit in the overall portfolio of solutions that you're helping customers through either manager, deploying and services? >> So definitely in the IT Ops arena, a big part of IT Ops, at the heart of it really is monitoring and keeping track of systems. So, all sets of systems throw off a lot of data whether it's log data, real time performance data, events that are happening, monitoring of the performance of the application and that's tons and tons of data. And that's where a platform like ScienceLogic comes in, as a monitoring system with capabilities to do what we call also event management. And in the old days, actually probably would have thought about monitoring event management and logs as somewhat different things; these worlds are collapsing together a bit more. And so this is where ScienceLogic has a platform that lends itself to a marriage of these faces in that sense. And then that would feed a downstream automation system of informing it what actions to take. Dave, thoughts on that? >> Dave, if you want to comment on that I've got some follow ups too, but. >> Yeah, there's many areas of automation. There's layers of automation and I think Surendra's worked with customers over a story career to help them through the different layered cakes of automation. You have automation related to provisioning systems, the provision and in some case provision based on capacity analytics. There's automation based on analysis of a root cause and then once you know it, conducting other layers of automation to augment the root cause with other insights so that when you send up a case or a ticket, it's not just the event but other information that somebody would have to go and do, after they get the event to figure out what's going on. So you do that at time of event that's another automation layer and then the final automation layer, is if you know predictively about how to solve the problem just going ahead if you have 99% confidence that you can solve it based on these use case conditions just solve it. So when you look at the different layers of automation, ScienceLogic is in some cases a data engine, to get accurate clean data to make the right decisions. In other cases, we'll kick off automations in other tools. In some cases we'll automate into ecosystem platforms whether it's a ticketing system, a service desk system, a notifications systems, that augment our platform. So, all those layers really have to work together real time to create service assurance that IBM's customers expect. They expect perfection they expect that excellence the brand that IBM presents means it just works. And so you got to have the right tooling in place and the right automation layers to deliver that kind of service quality. >> Yeah, Dave I actually been, one of the things that really impressed me is that the balance between on the one hand, we've talked to customers that take many many tools and replace it with ScienceLogic. But, we understand that there is no one single pane of glass or one tool to rule them all, the theme of the shows; you get the superheros together because it takes a team. You give a little bit of a history lesson which resonated me. I remember SNMP was going to solve everything for us, right? But, the lot of focus on all the integrations that works, so if you've got your APM tools, your ITSM tools or things you're doing in the cloud. It's the API economy today, so balancing that you want to provide the solutions for your customers, but you're going to work with many of the things that they have; it's been an interesting balance to watch. >> Yeah, I think that's the one thing we've realized over the years; you can't rip and replace years and years of work that's been done for good reason. I did hear today that one of our new customers is replacing a record 51 tools with our product. But a lot of these might be shadow IT tools that they've built on top of special instrumentation they might have for a specific use cases or applications or a reason that a subject matter expert would apply another tool, another automation. So, the thing that we've realized is that you've got to pull data from so many sources today to get machine learning, artificial intelligence is only as good as the data that it's making those decisions upon. >> Absolutely. >> So you've got to pull data from many different sources, understand how they relate to one another and then make the right recommendations so that you get that smooth service assurance that everybody's shooting for. And in a time where systems are ephemeral where they're coming and going and moving around a lot, that's compounding the challenge that operations has not just in all the different technologies that make up the service; where those technologies are being delivered from, but the data sources that need to be mashed together in a common format to make intelligent decisions and that's really the problem we've been tackling. >> Alright, Surendra I wonder if you can bring us inside your, you talked to a lot of enterprise customers and it helped share their voices to in this space, not sure if they're probably not calling it AI ops there, but some of the big challenges that they're facing where you're helping them to meet those challenges and where ScienceLogic fits in. >> So certainly the, yes, they probably don't want to talk about it that. They want to make sure that their applications are always up and performing the way they expect them to be and at the same time, being responsive to changes because they need to respond to their business demands where the applications and what they have out there continually has to evolve, but at the same time be very available. So, all the way from even if you think about something that is traditional and is batch jobs which they have large processing of batch jobs; sometimes those things slow down and because now they're running through multiple systems and trying to understand the precedence and actions you take when a batch job is not running properly; as just one example, right? Then what actions we want, first diagnosing why it's not working well. Is it because some upstream system is not providing it the data it needs? Is it clogged up because it's waiting on instructions from some downstream system? And then how do you recover from this? Do you stop the thing? Just kill it or do you have to then understand what downstream further subsequent batch jobs needs to or other jobs will be impacted because you killed this one? And all of that planning needs to be done in some fashion and the actions taken such that if we have to take an action because something has failed, we take the right kind of action. So that's one type of thing where it matters for clients. Certainly, performance is one that matters a lot and even on the most modern of applications because it may be an application that's entirely sitting on the cloud, but it's using five or 10 different SAS providers. Understanding which of those interactions may be causing a performance issue is a challenge because you need to be able to diagnose that and take some actions against that. Maybe it's a log in or the IDN management service that you getting from somewhere else and understanding if they have any issues and whether that provider is providing the right kind of monitoring or information about their system such that you can reason over it and understand; okay my service which is dependent on this other service is actually being impacted. And all these kind of things, it's a lot of data and these need to come together. That's where the platform something like ScienceLogic would come into play. And then taking actions on top of that is now where a platform also starts to matter because you start to develop different types of what we call content. So we distinguish the space between an automation platform or a framework plus and the content you need to have that. And ScienceLogic they talk about power packs and these things you need to have that essentially call out the work flows of the kind of actions you need to take when you have the falling signature of a certain bundle of events that have come together. Can you reason over it to say okay, this is what I need to do? And that's where a lot of our focus is to make sure that we have the right content to make sure that our clients applications stay healthy. Did that get to, I think build on what you were talking about a bit? >> Absolutely. Yes, you've got, it's this confluence of a know how an intelligence from working with customers, solving problems for them and being proactive against the applications that really run their business; and that means you're constantly adjusting. These networks I think Surendra's said it before, they're like living organisms. Based on load, based on so many factors; they're not stagnant, they're changing all the time, unless you need the right tools to understand not just anomaly's what's different, but the new technologies that come in to augmenting solutions and enhancing them and how that effects the whole service delivery cadence. >> Mr. Surendra, I want to give you the final word. One of the things I found heartening when I look at this big wave of AI that's been coming is, there's been good focus on what kind of business outcomes customers are having. >> Okay. >> Because back in the big data wave I remember we did the survey's and it was like what was the most common use case? And it was custom. And what you don't want to have is a science project, right? >> Right. >> Yes. >> You actually want to get things done. So any kinds you can give as to, I know you understand we're still early in a lot of these deployments and rollouts but what do you seeing out there? What are some of the lighthouse use cases? >> So, certainly for us, right? We've been at using data for a while now to improve the service assurance for our clients and I'll be talking about this tomorrow, but one of the things we have done is we found that now in terms of the events and incidents that we deal with, we can automatically respond with essentially no human interference or involvement I should say about 55% of them. And a lot of this is because we have an engine behind it where we get data from multiple different sources. So, monitoring event data, configuration data of the systems that matter, tickets; not just incident tickets but change tickets and all of these things and a lot of that's unstructured information and you essentially make decisions over this and say okay, I know I have seen this kind of event before in these other situations and I can identify an automation whether it's a power pack, an automotor, an Ansible module, playbook. that has worked in the situation before in another client and these two situations are similar enough such that I can now say with these kind of events coming in, or group events I can respond to it in this particular fashion; that's how we keep pushing the envelope in terms of driving more and more automation and automated response such that the I would say certainly the easy or the trivial kinds of I shouldn't say trivial, but the easy kinds of events and monitoring things we see in monitoring are being taken care of even the more somewhat moderate ones where file systems are filling out for some unknown reasons we know how to act on them. Some services are going down in some strange ways we know how to act on them to getting to even more complex things like the batch job type of thing. Example I gave you because those can be some really pernicious things can be happening in a broad network and we have to be able to diagnose that problem, hopefully with smarts to be able to fix that. And into this we bring in lots of different techniques. When you have the incident tickets, change tickets and all of that, that's unstructured information; we need to reason over that using natural language understanding to pick out the right I'm getting a bit technical here, verp no pas that matter that say okay this probably led to these kind of incidents downstream from typical changes. In another client in a similar environment. Can we see that? And can we then do something proactively in this case. So those are all the different places that we're bringing in AI, call it whatever you want, AIML into a very practical environment of improving certainly how we respond to the incidents that we have in our clients environments. Understanding when I talked about the next level changes when people are making changes to systems, understanding the risks associated with that change; based on all the learning that we have because we are very large service provider with essentially, approximately 1,000 clients. We get learning over a very diverse and heterogeneous experience and we reason over that to understand okay, how risky is this change? And all the way into the compliance arena, understanding how much risk there is in the environment that our clients facing because they're not keeping up with patches or configurations for security parameters that are not as optimal as they could be. >> Alright, well Surendra we really appreciate you sharing a glimpse into some of your customers and the opportunities that they're facing. >> Thank you. >> Thanks so much for joining us. Alright and Dave, we'll be talking to you a little bit more later. >> Great, thanks for having me. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> And thank you as always for watching. I'm Stu Miniman and thanks for watching theCUBE. >> Thank you Dave. >> Thank you. (upbeat techno music)

>> From Washington DC, it's theCUBE. Covering the ScienceLogic Symposium 2019. Brought to you by ScienceLogic. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's special coverage of ScienceLogic symposium 2019 here at the Ritz-Carlton, in Washington DC, about 460 people here, I'm told over 50% growth, from last year's event, the first time we've had theCUBE here, really excited to be able to dig in, with a number of the executives, customers and partners, and no better way, to kick off than one of the users, here at the event, actually coming here from across the pond, here to the district, happy to welcome to the program first-time guest, Nigel Wilks who's the Head of Global Tooling at Computacenter, based in the UK, Nigel, thanks so much for joinin' us. >> Hey, a pleasure. >> And joining him from ScienceLogic we have Clive Spanswick, who's the Vice President of Sales from EMEA, Clive thanks so much for joinin' us. >> Pleasure to be here. >> All right, so Nigel, set the stage for us, coming to the event here, tell me what brings you here, and tell us a little bit about Computacenter. >> Yeah sure, so, we're a relatively new customer to ScienceLogic so, I think, what, we signed two, three weeks ago? So, not deployed yet, but got great expectations. So, there's a lot of background research in the sessions. Finding about more what the additional capabilities that we can unlock, which will help drive our business further forward. So, Computacenter is a large IT provider, global. Based in the UK, as headquarters. My area of the business is in the Managed Services sector. So realistically, we're looking to reduce our cost to serve. Be more proactive for our customers, and, we've got great expectations of what ScienceLogic can do around those areas. Unlocking more automation, and eventually leading down the AI path. >> So Nigel, what I heard in the keynote is, some of the same themes I've been hearing around the industry, we are unparalleled as to how fast things are changing in the industry, there's just more complexity, there's more heterogeneous environments, for companies like yours, usually agility is one of those things that's coming to the top of the environment and oh my gosh, when I became an analyst about nine years ago, it was the tooling and management options out there where usually some of the things that customers would say are weak in their environment, and something I think I've heard for my entire career, so, maybe give us a little bit as to some of what you're hearing from the business side and how it makes sure that you can run your services faster and ultimately serve your customers better and how your look at, I don't know whether you call it AI Ops, but this whole space, fits into that environment. >> Sure, so-- >> Yeah. >> We've with probably a lot of organic growth within Computacenter over quite a short period of time. Also through acquisitions, we've got quite a fragmented tooling landscape globally. So, nearly two years ago, we kind of set on the journey to become more of a global entity, and certainly from my perspective a tooling landscape. Looking to consolidate those down, simplify our services, again helping reduce our cost base, and then leverage the automation stuff I talked about earlier. So, just going to ScienceLogic, we're moving away from some of the big names. And consolidating over 50 tools into the one ScienceLogic solution. >> Wow. That's great, let's bring ya into the discussion Clive, yeah, I heard in the keynote this morning, it was, the typical customer, it's at least 14 tools. >> Yes. >> That get consolidated down. I think back about five years ago, frictionless and simplicity were the terms that I heard. I talked to a lot of companies, it's like "Oh okay, yes I've got integrations I need to do "if I'm doing acquisitions, whether I be in, "if I'm in services of course that's there" But, you know, financial industries, and, heck, Cisco IT who I'm going to be talking to later, does an acquisition a month, what are you seeing, give us a little bit of the EMEA flavor and-- >> Sure. >> How what Nigel's saying, how is that resonating with your customer base? >> Yeah, absolutely Stu. So we see this a lot with the leading service providers now that are really being challenged by their customers to really extend their portfolio of services, over an ever more diverse range of technologies, and this is one of the big challenges that has driven tool sprawl over the course of the last seven to ten years, so simplification of the toolset, is really one of the key drivers to really deliver outcomes for efficiency, so a lot of the way we see modern service providers operating today really is all about automation, to get to better automation at a lower cost you have to drive simplification into the tool chain. So, we see this a lot with our customers across the region and indeed worldwide, that taking the tools landscape and really collapsing that into a much more simplified model is an essential ingredient to drive efficiencies that then in turn can be delivered to the customer as lower-cost services, so that's the real driving force that we see for customers today. >> Alright. Nigel, we'd love to hear, I know you've just gone through the process of choosing but, what are you looking for, are there specific business drivers, how will success be measured in your environment? >> Part of the process was, to look at what our business requirements were. And map those on through an RFI process. Of which ScienceLogic were one of the vendors that took part. So I think at the benchmark of everything we did, at the heart of the whole process, was that business requirements. Just making sure that whichever toolsets we selected, would go down that route. We never expected to have a single-vendor solution, which, fortunately we've got ScienceLogic which covers the majority, but with the partner ecosystem, some of those guys are here today. It kind of rounds it up for us. But moving away from our current providers, some of those, they present challenges to us as well. Tryin' to unlock data that's within the platforms, some of those tools are through acquisitions. So as much as you've got a brand name as part of a whole stable of tools, they don't inter-operate very well. And the beauty of going to ScienceLogic was, everything comes in together, even the partner tools, which allows us to really look at what we can do in the future. >> Alright, so, Nigel I've got the tough question for you. When I came into the show, one of the things that really struck me, is how data's at the center of what's important here, you know, when we look at companies, digital transformation often is a buzzword, but, we've really defined the difference between the old way and the modern environment is, how is data something that can actually drive your business, are you data-driven in your decisions, can you monetize data, what I heard in the keynote discussion is, data's such an important, not just the collecting but leveraging, and that's driving the intelligence, the automation. How much did that focus on data play into your decision, and can you give us a little bit of insight as to how your company looks at the role of data in the IT world today? >> Well, it's very important, that's quite a simple solution to that one. So for me, an infrastructure tooling perspective, being able to bring all the data into one place but contextualize it as well, means that we can then do some good stuff. Again, driving us down that automation path but from an end-user point of view we've got end-user analytics, that can open up a lot of different worlds for us, predicting what issues users have, rather than calling a service desk, theoretically, going further down the future, we'll be calling them to say, "I can see you've got a problem, "I can fix it for you remotely." Those kind of decisions that we can make from that data. But in my kind of space, the infrastructure tooling side, we need to go onto that AI Ops journey, and as you heard this morning, now, or at least a few weeks ago, to get there, it's like getting the data into a good shape, knowing what we want to do with the AI Ops moving forward. So, automation's a good candidate, that helps up achieve some of our objectives, reduces customers' downtime as well but, we've also got to be careful that we're not tryin' to automate resolution to poor behavior. >> Yeah >> Yeah, so, rather than fixing the root cause, we need to actually look at things and say, "Is this an incident-worthy event, "is this something that "we need to actually do something with, "or is it just an automation candidate?" And it's going to drive some of those behaviors for us. >> Clive, I'd love to get your viewpoint as to what you're hearing from customers, when I listened to the analyst this morning, he's like "You need to really differentiate "between that machine learning piece, "and the automation." Because any of us that've worked in operations environment, you can automate a bad process. >> Yeah. >> And data doesn't necessarily mean good information, so we need to manage those things a little bit separately, and that maturation of where customers are for both automation and intelligence, is a tough one, when they did a poll when your CEO was up on stage, nobody's fully, turn things over to the computers. >> Yep, yep. >> So, where are your customers, how are they thinking through the AIML, the use of data, and those pieces? >> So see, I think to be fair, a lot of customers today, AI Ops as we know is a relatively new term to the market, so I think a lot of businesses are struggling to recognize their own maturity, and I think, what we learned from this morning from Dave Link, our CEO, about how you characterize yourself on the journey to AI Ops maturity I think is a very valuable thing, and I think as I look at a lot of the customers and we saw from the poll earlier in the main session, that a lot of businesses today are fairly in the middle of maturity, so they're really at about the point of consolidating all the data in one place, the next big step of that of course is to clean that data up and contextualize it, so that you can start to leverage that data for the meaningful outcomes, and that's really where the smarts of machine learning and early-stage AI really start to play. We still, to be fair, still a long way off from the realization of full AI, but there are many pragmatic things that you can do, to get you very well level set, to take full advantage when those opportunities start to present themselves. >> Alright. So, Nigel, you're goin' through this process to really modernize your toolset you said you're replacing a whole bunch of things with the new one, what ultimately will this mean to your end-user customers? >> I think a more proactive service. Just dialing it back down to the simple things. If we simplify our service, we can have, from a business point of view, we can be consistent in how we deliver service globally. But from an end-user point of view. At the end of the day, most of the stuff is event-driven. End users typically find those out before systems do. Just from whole new cycles, reducing false positives and things. But it also means that, again, automation is being at the heart of what we want to try and achieve. We can automatically fix these things, so it's less downtime. And then hopefully we can just kind of prevent. Automation's great, but prevention's better. >> Yeah. How do you see your journey going forward, when you look at that automation, I mean I can't imagine you at a day one, your desk, putting everything in and everything's there, do you have a roadmap out there as to how you look at your deployment and how you're going to change things internally? Yeah. This, realistically, is going to be a catalyst to how we do things. So what starts off as a tooling replacement project, becomes that overall, we can do things global process. Working a little bit smarter than we have been before, doing things on a larger scale, but using common processes. That's quite a big shift in how we work now. But also means from our sales forces perspective, they're selling the same thing, it doesn't matter which country they're in. It becomes more about delivery location, and a language. >> Great. Clive, give us a little bit as to, what are customers like Nigel, what should they expect once they've made the deployment, how long does that transformation take-- >> Sure. >> And what's the day one and then, three months, six months out? >> Sure, great questions. So the whole journey that we're exploring, with all of our customers, is this move to AI Ops and they've done really the support of the resilient digital experience for their customers. The journey itself is continuous. So, one of the big challenges that we know to be true in the space that we operate in, is the demand for constant change. So the idea and the process that we're going on with, with computer sensor is that, we will take you through a series of maturity stages, of crawl, walk and run. And then once we get them to run, it will be a case of continuous improvement and continuous development. We expect to get to the first break of that within the first quarter, we're going to be delivering instant value from the platform pretty much from the word go, but once we get into the process of business as usual, running the operation, it really becomes about the improvement of moving, from really the stages of helping them react better to incidents, and then moving into a much more proactive and predictive state, and then finally, the endgame of this of course, is to really get to the point of, automate to avoid the incidents happening altogether, and that really, I guess, is where we start to step towards the ultimate vision of AI Ops and the things that that can bring to bear. >> Alright, so, Nigel, I want you to take me inside your team, 'cause on the one hand we say, "I have a whole bunch of tools, "I'm going to simplify and I'm going to unify "and that's going to be great." And I'm sure there's many on your team they're like, "Ah, I hate this tool, and this one's a pain "and this and that. "But we kind of know how "to do everything that I'm doing today." So, one, give us a little insight as to, is there some of that clinging to the past, and, on the other hand, are there some things that, like, "Oh my gosh, I'm glad I will never have to do "one two or three ever again, "once I've gone through this process"? >> Great, great question, so, everyone has their favorite tool, or favorite bit of software. I think, internally, we've clearly got that challenge as well. But it's fair to say, the reverse is true, there's a lot of tools out there that the user base are more than happy to get rid of. But ultimately, I think as we've gone through the cycle with ScienceLogic, and certainly we've had some good workshops with the various user base, highlighting what's possible, we've had some really really positive feedback. I still expect challenges, change, change is a big thing, most people don't like change but, I think there's a great opportunity for people to, at the end of the day learn a new tool. Something different, something fresh. And also then, they can think about what the tool can do, how can we exploit it more, so, we're not locked into the model that we were in before, the tools that we'd use for years and we've worked in the same way. We've got an exciting journey to start looking at how we can derive better services, how we can simplify our services. How we can let customers self-serve, to a degree as well. So you know, I think it's an exciting journey that we're on. And I think it'll be good to come back next year and demonstrate where we are. >> I love that, I definitely want to talk about that, Clive, give you the final word on this. What final advice to you give him, he's made the decision, he's goin' onboard. Tell him, I'm sure, unicorns and rainbows and everything's going to be phenomenal, but, what are some of the things you hear from your customers as they roll things out, give him a little bit of the "Yay" and a little bit of the-- >> Sure >> Just "Hey make sure "we've educated everybody on this." >> Yeah, again, great question Stu. So, from working with our customer base, the big thing that we see is that this is a continuous journey. The journey doesn't stop. What we do is we make things progressively easier, and the opportunities to scale and standardize are almost limitless. I guess the one word of counsel I would give is that, one of the big things that we see, with any major transformation, we're talking about the automations we can deliver around monitoring but, with any transformation it is really how you start to shift the culture of the organization to work a way around the new ways of operating, and really winning the hearts and minds of the guys that this stuff is going to make the biggest difference to. So, we're talking in the first instance of course about the operational stakeholders and the key users, having them engaged, and really working that process to get the maximum benefit out of the platform. From there, really is about the improvements that they can achieve in customer experience and of course, as Nigel has already said, a lot of that is really centered around the opportunities it's going to present them to show real innovations, around their service portfolio and my guidance there would be, don't be shy to show the world of the possible, to your enterprise customers, because they are demanding more, and there is so much that they can do with the platform to really unleash super value to their customer base. >> Yeah I love that, the world of the possible, we understand all the stresses and strains put on business and IT today so, Clive, Nigel, thank you so much for joining us, Nigel we look forward to hearin' how things go, catch up with you in a year maybe. >> Pleasure. >> Of course, thank you. >> Alright, so we'll be here all day at the Ritz-Carlton in Washington DC, ScienceLogic Symposium 2019, I'm Stu Miniman and as always, thank you for watchin' theCUBE. 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>> Live from San Francisco. It's theCUBE covering IBM Think 2019 brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back everyone, this is the CUBE's live coverage in San Francisco at Moscone Center for IBM Think 2019. I'm John Furrier with Dave. Volante Dave it's been in AI, it's been cloud, it's been in data changing the game. We've got two great guests here Murali Nemani, CMO of ScienceLogic, your CEO has been on the CUBE before and Joe Damassa who is the VP of strategy and offerings for hybrid cloud service at IBM. Thanks for joining us. >> Welcome. >> Appreciate it. >> Thank you guys. >> Welcome to CUBE. So day four of four days coverage, yes, you can see the messaging settling the feedback settling, AI clearly front and center, role of data in that and then cloud scale across multiple capabilities. Obviously on premise multi cloud is existing already. Software's changing all this. >> Right. >> And so AI impacting operations is key. So how do you guys work together? What's the relationships in ScienceLogic and IBM? Could you just take a minute to explain that? >> I think I mean, clearly, as you talked about the hybrid nature of what we're dealing with, with the complexity of it, it's all going to be about the data. You know, software is great, but it's about software that collects the data, analyzes the data, and gives you the insights so you can actually automate and create value for our clients. So it's really this marriage, it's a technology but it's a technology that allows us to get access to the data so we can make change, it's all about the data. >> And so a lot of what IBM has been doing is building the analytics engines and Watson it's for them. Our partnership has been really building the data and the data lake and the real time aspects of collecting and preparing that data so that you can really get interesting outcomes out of it. So when you think about predictive models, when you think about the the way that data can be applied to doing things like anomaly detection that ultimately accelerate and automate operations. That's where the relationship really starts taking hold. >> So you guys are specialized in AIops and IT apparatus as that transforms with scale and data which you need machine running, you need a kind of gave it automation. >> Yes. >> And which is the devops use of operations is don't go down, right, up and running, high availability. >> Yeah. >> So on the cloud services side, talk about where the rubber is meeting the road from a customer standpoint, because the cultural shift from IT Service Management, IT operations has been this manual, some software here and there, but it's been a process. Older processes change a little bit, but this is a new game. Talk about how you guys are engaging the customers. >> Well, a part of it I mean, it's interesting when you step back and you stop breathing, you're on exhaust in terms of pushing what you're trying to sell and you listen to your customers what we're hearing is that they all understand the destination. They understand they're moving to the cloud, they understand the value that's going to bring, they're having a hard time getting started. It's how do I start the journey ? I've got all of this estate and traditional IT operations capabilities it's kind of move. How do I modernize it? How do I make it so it's portable across different environments. And so when you step back, you know, we basically said, hey, you need the portability of the platform. So what we're doing with Red Hat, what we're doing with IBM, cloud private, it creates that portable containerizing ability to take our existing workloads and start moving them, right. And then the other thing that the clients need are the services. Who's going to help me advise me on what workloads should move, which one shouldn't, most of the staff fails because you move the wrong things. How do you manage that? How do you build it? And then when you're done, and you've got this hybrid complex environment, how do we actually get insights to it and the data I need to operationalize it? How do I do IT apps, when I don't own everything within the four walls of my data set. >> Now, are you guys going to market together? You guys sell each other products, the relationship with ScienceLogic and IBM is it a partnership, is it a joint development? Can you explain a little bit more on how you guys work together? >> Well, we're one of the largest sort of services provider in the industry. So as we bring, our products, our technologies and our capabilities to market, we bring ScienceLogic into those deals, we use ScienceLogic in our services so that we can actually deliver the value to our clients. So it is sort of a co development, co joint partnership plus also our goal to market. >> So you use that as a tool to do discovery and identify the data that's in and the data that we're talking about is everything I need to know about my IT operations, my applications, the dependencies. Maybe you could describe a little bit more. >> Sure if you think about one of the things that Joe was mentioning is, today, the workloads are shifting, you're going from, let's say management performance monitoring and management platforms that you need to evolve from, to incorporate new technologies like containers and microservices and server-less architectures. That's one area of how did the tool sets fundamentally evolve to support the latest technologies that are being deployed? So think about that. Second is, how do you consolidate those set of tools now you're managing? Because you're adopting cloud based technologies or new capabilities, and so get consolidation there. And the third is, these workloads that are now migrating out of your private cloud or private data center into public clouds, right? And then that workload migration, I think it is Forrester level saying, about 20% of the total workloads are currently in some sort of a public cloud environments. So there's a lot of work to do in terms of getting to that tipping point of where workloads are now truly in a multi cloud hybrid cloud. So as IBM accelerates that transition and their core competencies in helping these large enterprises make that transition, you need a common manageable environment, that the common visibility across those workloads. So that's at the heart of what we're pulling, and then the data sets happened to be data sets that are coming either from the application layer, data coming from the log management systems, it could be data coming from a service desk in terms of the kind of CMDB based data sets, and we're building a data lake that ultimately allows you to see across these heterogeneous system. >> It could be service request to get that really touches the business process so you can now start to sort of map the value and how change is going to affect that value, right? >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah. >> I mean, what's interesting about ScienceLogic as a partner, it's the breadth of their platform in terms of the different things they can monitor, the depth, the ability to go into containers, and kind of understand what the applications are doing in them and the scale in terms of the types of devices. So when you think about, the types of devices, we're going to have to manage everything from, sensors in an Internet of Things, environment to routers, to sophisticated servers and applications that can be running anywhere, you need the flexibility of the platform that they have in order to be able to deliver that. >> And I think that's a key point when you talking about containers and Kubernetes, we heard your CEO Jeannie remitting mentioned Kubernetes, onstage like, that's great, good time(mumbles) I know no one like Kubernetes now it's mainstream. >> Yeah. >> So this is showing them what's going on the industry which is the on premise decomposition of on premise with cloud private, you guys have. >> Yes. >> Is giving them the ability to use containers to manage their existing stuff and do that work and then have the extension to cloud, public cloud or whatever public cloud. This gives them more mount modern capabilities. So the question is, this change the game we know that but how has it changed AIOps and what does it mean? So I guess the first question is, what is AIOps? And what is this new on premise with cloud private and full public cloud architecture look like in AIOps 2.0? >> So for me, it's a very simple definition. It's really using algorithmic mechanisms, right? Towards automating operations, right? It's a very simple way, simplistic way of looking at it. But ultimately, the end game is to automate operations because you need to move at the pace of business and machine speed. And if you want to go, move in machine speed, you can have, I mean, you can't throw enough humans at this problems, right? Because of the pace of change, the familiarity of the workloads spinning up and sitting down. We have a bank as a customer who turns up containers for every 90 seconds and then turn them down. Just can't keep that in that real time state of change and being able to understand the topological relationships between the application layer and the underlying infrastructure so that you can truly understand the service health because when an application degrades in performance, the biggest issue is a war room's scenario where everyone's saying, it's not me, it's not me and because everyone's green on their front, but it's now how do you get that connective tissue all the way running-- >> Well it's also not only the change, it's also the velocity of data coming off that exhaust or the changes and services is thrown off tons of data that you need machines now I mean, that's kind of the thing. >> Exactly, yeah. And I would add to that, I think part of the definition of AIOps is evolving. We know where we're coming from is more fit for purpose analytics, right? I have this problem, I'm the collect this data, I'm going to put these automations in place too address it. We need to kind of take it data Model approach that says, how do I ingest all of this data? You know, even at the start, when you're looking at which workloads and you're doing discovery and assessment of workloads, that data should go into a data lake that can be used later when you're actually doing the operations and management of those workloads. So what data do we collect at every stage of the migration and the transformation of it, and including the operational data? And then how do we put a form analytics on it, and then get the true insights? I think we're just scratching the surface of applying to AI, because it's all been very narrow cast, narrow focus, I have this problem, I collect this data, I can automate this server, it needs to move much beyond that to it... >> And services are turning up and on and off so fast as a non deterministic angle here, and you got state, non deterministic, I mean, those are hard technical computer science problems to solve >> Yeah. >> That's you don't just put a processor around say, oh, yeah. >> Well, let's back to the the scalability of the platform, the ability in real time to be monitoring and looking at that data and then doing something right. >> All right now, humans aren't completely removed from the equation, right? And so I'm interested in how the humans are digesting and visualizing all this data, especially at this speed there a visualization component? How does that all evolving? >> Yeah, I think that to me I mean, that's part of the biggest challenges. You humans are a, they have to be the ones that kind of analyze what's coming and say, what does this mean when you haven't already algorithmically built it into your automation technology, right? And then they also don't have to be the one to train, the system is doing to actually do it. So one of the things that were are that struggling with not struggling with, we're experimenting with is, how best to visualize this, right? We do some things now, we've got a hybrid cloud management platform, we're teaming with the product guys, and it's the ability to have four consoles. One from a consumption, how do I consume services from Amazon, IBM Cloud on premise, how do I deploy it? So in a Dev apps model, how do I fulfill that very quickly and operational councils, right, and then cost on asset management so you can actually have at glance say, oh, you know, I've got a big Hadoop cluster which been spun up, I'm paying $100,000 for it and it has zero utilization. So how do you visualize that so you can say oh, I'm need to put a rule in that if somebody's spinning something up on, you know, IBM Cloud and they're not using it, I either shut it down, or I sent messages out, right, for governance in top of it. So it's putting business rules and logic in terms, in addition to visualization to help automate. >> And Jeannie talked about this at our keynote efficiency versus innovation around how to manage and this is where the scale comes in. Because if you know that something's working, you want to to double down on it, you can then, kind of automate that away and then you just move someone, the humans to something else. This is where the AIOps I think it's going to be, I think, going to change the category. I mean, it's a Gartner Magic Quadrant for the IT operations. >> Right. >> AI potentially decimates that, I mean... >> Yeah, there's this argument that you know, you have these nice quadrants or let's say nicely defined market segments. You have the NPMD, the ITSM, the ITOM, you know, you have APM and so what's happening is in this world of AIOps, none of those D marks really fit anymore because you're seeing the convergence of that. And then the other transition that's happening is this movement from, you know, classic ops or Dev and a dev to Ops, Dev Ops and now dev sec Ops, you know, you're trying to get worlds to converge. And so when we talk about the data and being able to build data models, those data models need to converge across those domains. So a lot of the work we do is collect data sets from log management, from service desk and service management, from APM etc, and then build that data model in real time. So you can.... >> It kind of building an Uber or CMDB or I mean, right? (loud laughter) I mean, do most of your clients have a single CMDB? Probably not, right? >> Yeah. So this is sort of a new guidepost, isn't it? >> Yeah, a part of it is. There are these data puddles if you will, all right data exist in a lot of different places How do you bring them together so you can federate different data sources, different catalogs into a common platform because if a user is trying to decide, okay, should I spin this up on, you know, this environment or that one, you want the full catalog of capabilities that are on premise in your CMDB system with the legacy environment out of the catalogs that may exist on Amazon or Azure, etc and you want data across all that. >> It seems that everything's a data problem now. And datas are being embedded into the applications which are then the workflows are defining infrastructure, architecture, or are sole cloud, multi cloud, whatever the resource is, so we had JPMorgan Chase on top data geek on and she was talking about, we have models for the models and IBM has been talking about this concept of reasoning around the data. This is why I always like the cognition kind of angle of cognitive, because that's not just math, math is math, you do math on, you know, supervised machine learning and knowing processes to be efficient, but the cognition and the reasoning really helps get at that data set, right. So can you guys react to that? I mean, is everything a data problem? Is that how you should look at it and how does reasoning fit into all this? >> Well, I mean, that's back to your point about what is the humans role in this, right. So we're moving in a services business from primarily labor base with tools to make them more efficient to the technology doing the work. But the humans have to then say, when the technology get stumped, what does that mean? So should I build a new, how do I train it better? How do I, you know, take my domain expertise? How do I do the deep analytics to tell me all right, how do I solve those problems in the future? So the role changes I think Jenny talks about in terms of new collar workers. I mean, these are data scientists, these are people that understand the dynamics of the inner relationship of the different data, the data models that need to get built and they are guiding in effect the automation. >> I thought your CTO was on theCUBE talking about, Paul was talking about, you know, take the heavy and Rob Thomas was also on, the GM of the data plus AI team. I think he really nailed it. If you guys to take away the heavy lifting of the setup work then the data science who're actually there to do the reasoning or help assist in managing what's going on and putting guard rails around whatever business policy is. >> Today, I mean, we talked to in this about 79 percent I think it's a gardener stat of 79 percent of the data scientists. And these are these PhDs, they're highly valuable, spend their time collecting, preparing, cleansing those data models, right? So, you're now really applying that PhD level knowledge base towards solving a problem, you're just trying to make sense of the data. So one, do you have a holistic and a few? Two, is there a way to automate those things so you can then apply the human aspects towards the things that Joe was talking about. So that's a big part of what we're trying to come together in terms of the market for. >> Well guys thanks for the insight, thanks for coming on, great job. I think we talked for you know, an hour and on cultural shift because you mentioned the sets in here Ops and devs. It's a melting pot and it's a cultural shifts. I think that topic is worth following up on. But I'll let you guys just get a quick plug for you. I know you going to an event coming up and you got some work. You can talk about what you guys are doing. You got an event coming up, what your pitch, give a quick flag. >> Yeah, so we've got our symposium, which is our big user conference. It's in April. It's right in, it's on April 22 to 23rd to the 25th. It's in downtown Washington DC, Cherry Blossom festival season at the Ritz Carlton. And so a lot of that, we'll have theCUBE there as well. >> Yeah of course. >> So, we're looking forward to it. A lot of great energy to be carried over. >> We love going to the District. (laughs loudly) >> What don't we say, you guys are great, great to visit. So give the plugs with a service you're doing. Just give an update on what you guys are up to. >> Yeah, I think I mean, we're also we're investing the technology when we're full on board with the containerization, as we talked about, we're putting together a services portfolio. I think Jenny mentioned that we're taking a whole bunch of capability across IBM Global Technology Services, Global Business Services, and really coalescing into about, you know, 23 offerings to help customers advise on cloud, move to cloud build for cloud and manage on cloud and then you've seen the announcements here about what we're doing around the multi cloud management system. Those four console I talked about how do we help, you know, put a gearbox in place to manage the complexity of the hybrid nature that our customers are dealing with. >> It seems IBM got clear visibility on what's happening with cloud, cloud private, I think a really big announcement. I think it's not talked about in the show and I'll always kind of mentioned the key linchpin but you see cloud, multi cloud, hybrid cloud, you got AI and you got partnerships, ecosystem now its execution time, right? >> Yeah, exactly and, and frankly, that's the challenge, right? So we used to be able to manage it all on the four runs, right? Your SAP instances was in the data center, your servers were in the data center, your middleware is in the data center. Now I got my applications running in Salesforce.com often software as a service. I've got three or four different infrastructures of service providers. But I still have the legacy that I got to deal with. I mean the integration problems are just tremendous. >> Chairman VP of strategy at IBM hybrid cloud and Murali Nemani, CMO ScienceLogic, AI operations, bringing in hybrid clouds to theCUBE bringing all the coverage day four. I'm with Dave Volante, it's all about cloud AI developers all happening here in San Francisco this week. Stay with us from this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Bahrain, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit Bahrain. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage live here in Bahrain. This is our exclusive coverage of Amazon's new region we're covering. Part of AWS Summit, first time here in the Middle East for theCUBE. We're excited to be here. Next guest is Tala Fakhro, Executive Director of Market and Strategy Intelligence of Bahrain's Economic Development Board, also known as the EDB. >> That's right! >> Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me. >> I've learned so much and it was great to meet you last night and have a conversation around some of the things you are working on. The Economic Development Board is a big part of this digital first, cloud first strategy. >> That's right. >> And Amazon's at the center of it. They're going to drop a region in here. This is really big news and it's certainly got our attention. And I've learned so much about what's happening in the startup community. >> Yes, we are very-- >> You've got a lot going on. What's the impact of the AWS region mean for Bahrain, the region, and the economic development opportunity? >> We took a look at Bahrain, and we decided we are going to have to transform this economy from an oil dependent one into a digital one. It just, it seemed like the right thing to do. And having Amazon here, attracting Amazon, allows us to plant that flag to say we are serious, we want to do this. And we will do what we need to do. We, we work together as a government. You know Bahrain is unique because we can do we can do things really fast when we want to. We built the Formula One Racetrack in 14 months, which is unheard of. And we did the same for Amazon. We engaged with them at every level. It wasn't just let's talk about this plot of land here, or this fiber optic cable there. We had the government engaged in legislation, and regulation and education. Every part of the government was actively pushing for this transaction. >> And I think that's an important point. I want to just amplify and double down on that and talk about it, because I think culturally, Bahrain, what I learned was this is a culture of fast moving, open, friendly but pragmatic people. >> Absolutely. >> And that's Amazon's ethos. >> Absolutely. >> Scale, move fast, and innovate. >> Absolutely. We, we've been a trading nation all our lives since time immemorial, you know. We're a tiny little country in the middle of the map. We were cross-border trading before we knew what that was called. So this is something not unique to us. It is part of our DNA, and we found a good match with Amazon. They wanted all the same things we wanted and they are genuinely interested in making the ecosystem of the countries in which they install their regions better. And we found that to be very attractive for us. >> So I've got to ask you, as Amazon comes in they're expected to have that, this region up and running in the beginning of 2019. >> That's right. >> Which is just right around the corner, so they're running fast, so congratulations. >> Thank you. >> It's the new Formula One Racetrack for cloud computing. What is driving the demand for cloud computing? Because obviously we've seen the history of what's happened in North America with startups. >> That's right. >> And as Amazon goes around the world, there's a growth engine underneath Amazon. What's driving the demand for cloud computing in the region? >> Well, 96% by some measures of our entire economy are startups or SMEs. So you could imagine that the cost savings that Amazon offers is extremely attractive. In addition, the volatility of oil prices has put a big crunch on the government budget and so they are also attracted to the idea of saving some money on the cloud. And the government is a big employer and a big consumer. So they really drive the economy. >> Yeah. >> So in both, it was a win-win for everybody. We are really interested in making sure that our Startup scene is vibrant and is scalable. And cloud is the way to do that. It allows you to use as much as you need and pay for only what you would consume, so it's great. >> And so, Khalid Al Rumaihi, the CEO of the EDB. >> Yes. >> Who's a very good visionary. He has private sector background, super smart. Really enjoyed that conversation. But one of the things that we talked about was we always say in theCUBE and sometimes debate this, but data is the new oil. >> Absolutely. >> Couldn't be more indicative of an oil region, and you mentioned that in moving off the dependence of oil, or getting into a new market like data, data needs refineries as an economic opportunity. So he mentions, Vintech as a big driver for what could be possible in Bahrain as a core competency. When you do your research and your insight and intelligent analysis of the data of what's going on the macro level, is that consistent of what you are seeing that there's a need for this digital refinery, being a center point of innovation? And if so, what does that mean? What is, how should people understand that Bahrain is a small country in a big region? >> It is a small-- >> How do you differentiate? How do you take a leadership opportunity? >> Well, Bahrain is a small country but it is a small country that's rich in one thing. If it's not rich in oil, it's rich in its people. We are bilingual. Many of us are trilingual. We've always been open and outgoing and we've been willing to make partnerships and friends with other nations and other places. So we think that our human capital is coming together with the hard infrastructure that a region will bring. It makes it a, you know, a real good proposition. And it allows for our students, who are, by the way, already starting to be cloud trained. Over 2500 Bahrainis have signed up for cloud training since the program started six months ago. >> Yeah. >> That's a huge proportion given our population. That's a much faster rate than India or China for example. >> Yeah. >> So this shows you how much, how willing we are. You know coding is the new English. We learned English in the 70's so that we could compete globally. Now we are learning coding to do the same thing. >> And that's super important. Let's talk about the human capital side of it, 'cause I think this is a good point that a lot of people overlook. Everyone's now connected with mobile devices, so connectedness is now common. So coding is the new language. Digital is the new culture. How are you guys looking at transforming some of the day-to-day citizen roles? Because now you have opportunities to serve citizens from a government standpoint and to get enable them to be successful. And one of the things that I noticed at the Startup Bahrain sessions I was attending yesterday was the vibrant entrepreneurs. They're opinionated, which I love. 'Cause that's what entrepreneurs are. They're like, come on, let's move faster. Where's the cash? Where's the capital? So the human capital seems to be a big equation here. What are you guys doing to facilitate that? Where are you guys on the progress bar in your mind? Are people coding at a young age? Has it started? Is it, what's, what's the progress? Can you take us through the plan? >> Well we, as I mentioned, for a cloud computing, specifically we already have programs in place. We also have many other initiatives coming up through Udacity, through Carcera, through others. We are bringing them to Bahrain to have the technical skills added to the human capital skill set that we already have. But I think most importantly, we are making it important. We are making it a forefront of the government agenda. You know, we are making it something that is a requirement. And I think that as we set our national economic strategy for the next four years, human capital is a crucial driver for that and it is going to have it's very own chapter with all the recommendations and all the initiatives that we think need to be done in order to increase, not just our stem cell but also our creativity, our entrepreneurship, >> Yeah. >> And all the things that had made us great in the past. >> You know as I was observing also, talking to your CEO about, I've seen people trying to replicate Silicon Valley trying to manufacture innovation in a way or trying to get a momentum. It's really hard. But what you guys I think have done or have here that's hard to do or hard to replicate or manufacture out of thin air is you guys have actually built a community of people. I see the entrepreneurs. I see the support around them through the EDB. You have money? >> We do. >> And you have growth coming. The other stuff's mechanics. How do you get funded? How to do this? How are you looking at that? When you look at the research and you dig into, and sometimes the best move is just let it develop. Get out of the way and let the entrepreneurs develop. How are you guys letting this develop because I won't say that Bahrain has an identity crisis. I think they have an opportunity to set a new identity. >> Absolutely. >> How do you look at that? And how do you guys see that opportunity? How do you talk about it? >> Well, you can't buy innovation. I think we've proven that enough times, that government is no good at making people innovate. But what we can do is make life easier for those who want to innovate. So what we want to do is pave the way. Allow for the opportunities to be there. And then, you know, then it's every man for himself and the free market will compete. We're a very free market oriented entity and government and so all we're going to do is we're going to get out of the way. But we're going to make sure that the path is as clear as we can make it. We are going to make sure that whatever we can do to help, we will. Whether that's bringing somebody like an Amazon here, to have the people here or the Al Waha Fund which is a venture capital fund to fund, which was just launched and which is already invested in. And three or four independently managed >> Yeah. >> Venture capital funds. We feel like these kinds of things, where we're not directly funding but we are encouraging, motivating, helping, that's the role of the government. >> And I also want to just to say to the folks watching, you guys and give you guys some props, you don't just talk it, you walk it. And I think what I noticed in the sessions yesterday and meeting some of the top policy makers and the entrepreneurs was you guys are actually doing the work. >> Oh, we're trying. >> And Teresa Carlson's success in Washington D.C. with Amazon web services really is a testament that if you do the work, the results will pay off. And when Teresa came to Washington DC, Amazon Cloud Computing was like, whoa it'll never work. It is not secure. You know, now they are winning. They are doing extremely well. I've seen the model. Everyone's emulating and moving towards. You guys are doing the work. I see the check boxes. But there's still some work to do. EKYC, other things. >> Yup. >> So congratulations. >> Thank you very much. >> So the question is, what do you got done and what is to do? And what does that mean for people who want to come either work here or collaborate with Bahrain? 'Cause if you check the boxes you're going to be set up. What's the status? >> Well, the first thing we wanted to do was to make sure that the soft infrastructure was there, so we, as a government passed what we call the digital ecosystem package. So that's data protection. That's electronic transactions laws. There's a new law that's in the process that will allow people who are storing data on Amazon's region in Bahrain to bring their own laws with them. So that there are no issues with conflict of laws. >> On the compliance side? >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> So you know, it's as if they are storing in Saudi or Kuwait. >> Yeah. >> But they are storing here. So these kinds of things, this was the first step. And we've passed a bunch of those laws and we think that they are very important. In addition, as I mentioned, we have the funding situation. We begin to look at that. We hope that with this-- >> That's a hundred million fund of funds. >> That's a hundred million dollars fund to fund. >> Fund to fund, which means that you are going to enable private sector-- >> Correct. >> And professionals to come in. >> Absolutely. People who know what they're doing, who have done it before, in the region and outside of the region, whether it's Silicon Valley or Dubai. They're going to come here and they're going to look at the Bahraini startups, and that gives us the chance to compete on the world stage and shine. And it also gives us the chance to up our game. Once you see the competition, then you can >> Yeah. >> Fix and adjust and do what you need to do. And that's what we want. We want them. We're not going to help spoonfeed them. >> Yeah. >> We're not going to give them charity. This is, you are going to compete because what we dream is that Bahrain will eventually become a global player, and we think we can do that. That's our vision. That's what we want to do, and that's where we are headed. >> So you guys are competitive? >> We have to be. (John laughing) We're a tie, we are the underdog. >> Yeah. >> But sometimes underdogs win. >> You know as I was saying also observing that, we're our first time here with theCUBE in the region. So I was noticing that, you know, we see a lot of events in Dubai. And Dubai is very blown, built, blown up now and is developed. Bahrain feels like Silicon Valley because New York is different than say, the San Francisco Bay area, Silicon Valley. But they don't have to be each other. New York is New York. Hustle, bustle. Silicon Valley is where innovation is. It feels like you guys have that same kind of-- >> We do. >> Vibe here. >> We do, and a rising tide lifts all ships. Where there's good for the Emirates and Saudi, there's also good for Bahrain. It's a region at the end of the day. We're too small to be a player on our own. But one thing I wanted to touch on, you mentioned, that, you know, with the Silicon Valley. The difference between New York and Silicon Valley is everybody knows everybody in Silicon Valley. So if you are an entrepreneur and you have a good idea, you can easily access the people that you need to access. >> Yeah. >> We think Bahrain has that advantage too. And this is-- >> Yeah. >> Clearly demonstrated in the Amazon transaction because you know at the time when we could, we had everyone from His Royal Highness, the Crown Prince on down. If we needed them, they were a phone call away. >> And people are accessible here. They're open. >> They're open. >> They're very friendly. But it's kind of, I won't say no, it's kind of no nonsense in the sense of people just want, get to the point. Right? But it's not in your face like a East Coast New York kind of thing. >> Well, we're not there yet. (John laughing) Give us time. >> All right, so back to the access to capital concept because I think first of all, we're going to open up our doors >> Yes. >> With theCUBE in Silicon Valley for you guys. So very impressive. Consider that an open invitation. But now you're talking about networks. As you built community outside of Bahrain, what are some of the things that you guys are trying to do? What does the research say to do? Is it, is there regions that you see that you need to connect through? Obviously, you want to build some communications with other groups. What's the data show for you guys? What's the sequence of execution? >> So I think what we need to do is we really need to focus on the partners that we have and enhance that relationship. But also we need to look a little bit deeper. So I think India and China are areas of interest for us as well because they are interested in this part of the world, and we need to improve our relationship with Silicon Valley. Not just giving them money. >> Yeah. >> Because everyone wants to give Silicon valley money. But we want to really learn-- >> Yeah. >> And understand what they have done, why it's worked there, why it doesn't work elsewhere, and apply some of those lessons here. >> And bring some collaborations, certainly. >> Absolutely. >> Well, people are leaving Silicon Valley and I know that most startups and growing companies have engineering teams all over the world so it's a global economy. >> Absolutely. >> Final question for you as we wrap up. What is going to attract, folks you are, or, let me rephrase that. What should companies know about Bahrain if they want to engage with you guys here and work with you, or domicile here and create a group here? >> Well first of all, they should know that they don't need to involve anyone else because they can come in and set up on their own. 100% foreign ownership is something that we have here. Where it's a very liberal economy. It's a great place to live. and that sounds facetious but it's actually really important because talent is the crucial component of every success for these companies. And people like to live here. People enjoy it. I think you'll find a welcoming environment. You'll find an environment where if you have an issue, you can raise it to the highest level very easily. >> Got it. >> And EDB is here to help with that. >> Well Tala, thank you coming on. >> Thank you. >> Tala Fakhro, Executive Director of the Bahrain Economic Development Board, the EDB. They have a website. You can engage them obviously doing great things. This is the calm before the storm. As Amazon Web Services Region gets up and running, we expect to see a lot of growth and unexpected things. >> Yeah. >> Unexpected, unintended consequences. Be careful what you wish for, Right? >> Well. >> I mean, it's coming. >> It's coming and we're waiting. >> Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you so much. >> I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. You can reach me at @furrier on Twitter. Bringing you all the action here in Bahrain for our exclusive coverage of the Amazon's new region in the area here in Bahrain and through the Middle East. Thanks for watching. Stay with us for more live coverage here at the Ritz Carlton for AWS summit in Bahrain 2018. We'll be right back. (bright music)

the queue presents on the ground here's your host John furrier hi everyone I'm John furrow it still can angle the cube we're here in San Francisco the ritz-carlton for the exclusive coverage of Amazon Web Services AWS is big announcement with VMware CEO Pat Cal singer with the CEO of Amazon Web Start sandy chasse a year on the big announcement of VMware managing a cloud on Amazon a lot of good stuff and our next guest is Terry wise who's the vice president of global alliances great to see you good to see you John thanks for having us so you're the man I'm at bout town and he came on stage we delivered a great performance kind of humbly like he always is but this is a really big deal and you guys obviously get learning on the public cloud but this is like you know almost sweeping the double header you know game one you win the public cloud game to enterprise cloud is pretty much in your back pocket with the size of VMware you got to be happy with this deal yeah we're very pleased with it I mean if you look at it we don't look at it in the terms you just articulated it certainly entertaining but we really look at it is how we're gonna best serve customers and at the beginning at the end of the day this all came about you know really by customer demand you heard both Andy and Pat talk about it enterprise customers have been talking to us for years hey we want to run these workloads across multiple environments help make us help make that happen and now is the right time in place and the right marketing conditions to make that yeah yeah tongue-in-cheek side nice nice political answer on the Amazon front but but in reality we've been covering both Amazon and VMware both in a very deep way over the past years and I was questioning myself why is Andy Jesse coming to San Francisco to announce a deal with VMware it seems like VMware is groping a lot of criticism on the false starts of the cloud I obviously knew something big was going on so I felt that but this my question but you're innovating so much at Amazon I slowed down to go work with VMware obviously it's the customers talk about the customer impact because this is important it's not that you guys are straying from the vision of AWS which is in the cloud a lot of innovation sets the services is this just another service for AWS well it's another service but it's a very different service you know to your point this is really gonna accelerate customer adoption then we're gonna make it easier for enterprise customers to move to the public cloud environment because they can leverage the same software licenses skill sets and tools that they've used to virtualize and build private clouds so now naturally extends in the V AWS environment and it should help everybody move faster and get all the goodness and the benefits of the cloud much quicker so you have two customers on there on the stage one was Western Digital they got a huge integration it's interesting the use case for him was analytics yes so that's an Amazon benefit tutor so it's not just VMware so the deal is VMware customers get to run the VMware stuff on to Amazon so you give them a lifeline for their business models Raghu was alluding to ours being more specific this allows them to preserve their licenses as well as give their customers a bridge to the future but the reality is there's a ton of services on the Amazon side that they're going to take advantage of it's not just they're gonna get Amazon they're naturally gonna use what services do you guys see the VMware customers using the most oh that's a great question and I think I mean it really runs the gamut if you look at you know analytics for sure I mean that's a no-brainer if you look at more of the innovation use cases that are happening around IOT the things that you know don't fit night they use cases that don't fit nicely into kind of your private data center because of the constraints that you have their Big Data obviously the variable kinds of workloads massive amounts of storage all that data that's coming off these IOT centers has to go somewhere that's three redshift I mean all of these things are just natural extension so you have to be completely candid I have a hard time thinking of any that would not you know be an extension to the because Dave Olave says there's a lot of cloud native agility and innovation coming on Amazon how is that going to connect into the VMware so the customers just say hey I'm a VMware customer I'm now gonna use vCenter and I got all my comfortable dashboarding and tooling and stacks technology of VMware mm-hmm now I go to Amazon I just plug into Amazon services directly yes I'll have an AWS account that's gonna spin up the AWS native services will run those alongside the VMware offering and through V Center and the management tools you leverage our API is into cloud wash logs and all of our different management functionality so to get a single view across that integrated landscape so the number one question I had coming into today was why it's Andy Jesse coming to San Francisco so in your own words how would you describe the magnitude of this deal for both AWS and for VMware but certainly you know perhaps the most unique deal we've done we've done a lot of strategic alliances we announced one last year at this time with Accenture that's one step shy of a joint venture that's been a big deal you know we've got a number of others we just announced one with sa P a few weeks ago here in San Francisco around the BW for Hana launch but in comparison in Mississippi you know obviously a big deal and the enterprise adoption has been up - can you comment on any color around uptake with the enterprises you know prior and visa V this announcement I'm sure it's gonna be a lot more this is an on-ramp of three million customers but in general Amazon was already winning in the enterprise correct yeah I mean the fastest-growing segments for us clearly are the enterprise and public sector I want to make sure we conclude public sector in there it's probably the first time in a series of Carlton great great doing a great job they're probably the first time in history of the IT world that the public sector in many cases is moving faster than the private sector it's one of my favorite stories to tell and yeah I noticed on the on the on the region map you had a gov cloud on there that is the public sector cloud so VMware customers in public sector can tap into that is that similar before it is on the roadmap to support our Dell cloud initiative you know I think that'll come in a kind of phase two but absolutely and we're finding - is most of the government's we're working with now government agencies don't require gov cloud they want you want to run in our public cloud because it's equally secure more secure more capacity more flexibility more choice Terry thanks so much for coming on sharing your thoughts here at the exclusive announcement in a nutshell what's the big takeaway for AWS folks customers and VMware customers what's the key message that you'd like this decision here yeah I think you know today we're you know even more relevant than we were yesterday in terms of the ability to actually serve at enterprise customers full suite of workloads faster more innovative and cost-effective awesome great thanks so much appreciate your time John Ferrier here in San Francisco the risk call for the exclusive Amazon Web Services in VMware big partnership thanks for watching [Music]

>>The cute presents on the ground. Here's your host, John furrier. >>Hello, I'm John foray with Silicon angle media, the cube, and we are here for an Inn at the Ritz Carlton in San Francisco for the special exclusive press event with Andy Jassy. And the special announcement was Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMware announcing what, in my opinion is probably the biggest, most historic announcement in the industry. And certainly for VMware as the future migration to the cloud migration of the next generation infrastructure continues. Uh, and so big, significant as exclusive. I'm having a one-on-one interview with Andy and Pat shortly, but I had a chance to grab the chief architect of this deal. One of the many that the lead EVP and general manager. So I don't think it's an, a Ragu Ragu Ragu around welcome, uh, to see, great to see you. Thanks for spending the time to see you. Thanks. So Ragu you're, you're an old timer VMware, but now you're also architecting. What looks to be the bridge to the future for VMware? Um, this relationship with AWS, Amazon web services puts VMware in the cloud the best, the best, most functional best, biggest public cloud, and most robust capabilities immediately in Amazon available mid 2017. But this is a path instantly for all of the and where customers, um, what's when did this all start and what motivated you to architect this? >>Yeah, I mean, um, as you recall, the past VMware, we announced our cross-cloud architecture and the idea that customers, enterprise customers want choice with control, right? The legwork for that was done, um, over a year ago, right? When we internally, we finalized our strategy to enable our platform to run in multiple different, uh, clouds, such as our weekend partner network and IBM and now AWS. So that's when we all started around this. But the key idea here is for customers that are increasingly putting a variety of workloads from the, in their private cloud, in their public cloud, you want to have a consistent way of running and managing and securing and operating these applications. And as you just pointed out, one of the biggest cloud providers for our customer is AWS. And so this was a natural partnership from that point of view. >>So one of my favorite tweets out there for us from, you know, obviously Dave Alante co-host of the cube, he said, um, please allow me to translate. He was translating from a customer, went help our customer impact one. You've squeezed the blood from the data center stone with virtualization. You've done all you can. This is my customer translation, too. You have, um, a legacy amount of VMware processes and procedures and software, AKA VMware, three year Jones, and for the agility and innovation of AWS, come on in the water's nice and warm. So essentially it's kind of tongue in cheek, but you know, the data center is, has been maxed out. So data center consolidation, certainly people don't want to be in the data center business, but they want the benefits of a data center with the cloud. You guys are not providing that. What is the impact to customers because they are jonesing for innovation that Jones and from microservices, they're jonesing for cloud native, that Jones and for the, some of the goodness that Amazon has shown works, but yet it's a huge migration nightmare and they want a SAS business model. They want a SAS company. This is the digital transformation. What is the impact of customers? >>Yeah, I mean, it's ultimately comes down to simplicity and agility, right? And the, there is two big transformations going on. One is there's a huge data center transformation going on, driven by simplicity, driven by software. And that is the whole software defined data center while you're absolutely right. Many of our customers have maxed out the server virtualization, but their network is inefficient and the storage is efficient, et cetera, et cetera. So the software defined data centers, one of the moves they're making now at the same time, like you said, they're jonesing for all these advanced services, uh, for their new applications. Uh, they want some way to bridge both environments. And that's where this service, uh, hits the sweet spot. If you will, right now, without replatforming, without changing your operational models, like your quote that you, the tweet that you quoted without changing any of our operational models, you can have an agile on demand of VMware data center. And what's running in that VMware data center is the full software defined data center stack, all of the great security and manageability capabilities of networking, of NSX, of virtual San, of vSphere at the same time, connecting to all these great services that AWS provides. It's really a best of both worlds story. >>So look from a customer standpoint, if I get this right, there's a big breathing out. Oh, finally, he got there, right? It's I don't have to do all this heavy lifting to move my VMware to the cloud. One, two in the demo that we show in V center. So specifically under the hood, what is running in the full stack? I mentioned V motion. I heard V motion mentioned. Is it all, all of the entire VMware stack running on the cloud? >>Yes. So the stack that's powering that, that you saw in the demo is a virtual sun watch lies in the storage underneath, um, NSX, providing the network virtualization. And of course, vSphere that's the core infrastructure stack. And in order to manage an ESX nodes for the hypervisor in order to manage ESX and control these resource pools and so on, you have the vSphere functionality built into V-Center. And that was a key requirement. Design requirement for this service is customers are very, very familiar with V-Center. They've been operating it for 15 years and have that as a huge ecosystem of tools, operational tools, backup dual security tools, you name it built around V-Center and all of that had to work seamlessly in the cloud. And that's why we sent her is so important. >>And certainly got a lot helps with the storage side of it. You mentioned networking, how does the Amazon relationship and the co-located if you want cold locating, but running managed in AWS help on the networking because in the demo, it was very cool besides the pay by credit card and pay by VMware account was the fact that you can pick a global footprint instantly, which means from what I took away, was it, I can be up and running in a geography with networking in the cloud, but not just Amazon's networking, you're networking. Absolutely. That's that accurate? You got it. Right. >>So, um, Amazon obviously has got a global network fabric that powers their services. And so you can stand up these clusters of the STDC hardware, if you will, on any one of their data centers in the fullness of time, maybe not on day one. And NSX already has the capability to connect across STDC clusters across different data centers. So now we can stretch a logical network, um, and have literally applications in the Portland data center of AWS and, uh, applications at the Virginia data center of AWS and applications in their London data center, all tied together, biological network. >>All right. So I'm going to ask some hard questions down so densely, by the way. So here's the hard question. So here's the hard question. So Paul Moritz and Joe Tucci no longer involved Maritz, retired, Tucci, retired, he wanted to own the enterprise. The private cloud was the original thing. Amazon was just kind of getting strong lift at that time. The world has gone all hybrids. There's a lot of hybrid cloud going around. So the world is different from them. So I want to get your comments on where the private cloud has came from to this reality and to comment to the naysayers out that I've heard some tweets like, Oh, rip VM-ware, they rang the bell, they tapped out, they capitulated talk about those two dynamics, private cloud, that vision, uh, from Mauritson Gelsey, uh, to cheek. And how do you answer the critics to say, Oh, they capitulated VMware's toast. >>Yeah. So, um, what the, uh, I would say are significantly incorrect views of how you look at this. The private cloud is still very strong, right? And you've got customers deploying the private cloud, literally every large enterprise that we talked to and we've got the leading share when it comes to private cloud deployments. And along with pivotal cloud Foundry, we can offer not just the infrastructure services of a private cloud, but also the application platform services of the private cloud or the private cloud exists for lots of different reasons can be regular. >>It's not done. The cloud is not going away anytime soon. What >>This allows customers to do is really get a hybrid that combines the best of a VMware environment or the best of an AWS. And that's really, what's unique. And what is in the service is the full VMware stack. And you've got to remember that 95% of our customers are still largely on vSphere. They've just started deploying and adopting NSX and virtual sand by adopting this service, they automatically get upgraded to the full power of network virtualization and storage virtualization. >>Of course. So you see this as an expansion of the business model, not anything I see complete expansion of the business model, that's going to come from SAS apps or, yep. >>So the whole service is a mad at service. So customers are not have to learn how to sort of rearchitect their data center. They can just get a rearchitected data center on demand wherever they want, or they can build the rearchitecture data center by themselves and connect it all up. Right. >>Okay. Final question. I'll see. Um, I'd love to chat more about what it's like cut this deal with Amazon fan of both of you guys. Um, actually we use Amazon work customer. Um, talk about your relationship with other clauses comes up with the press. People who are, you know, not as deep on, on the, on the industry they talk about IBM, Oh, it was IBM and Azure Azure. We can see that as competitive thing. I don't want to want to go there because we're going to do a whole blog post on the impact of Microsoft, which I think is the big competitor for us, for customers. But you guys have an open cloud strategy. And I think the IBM thing is let them compete. Now they have soft layer. Now some would argue Amazon, Andy talked about the relationship with them, the soft layer and how they compete. But ultimately IBM is deep with you guys. They're adding 20,000 developers. I think million people, which 4 million people trained highly integrated with VMware. So your strategy with them is the same, right? But primarily as a service operating on Amazon, are you guys going to be operating on soft layer and blue mix as well in a similar fashion? >>So, um, the service that we announced, uh, last month with IBM is a service that IBM is managing and operating, right? And we have worked very closely with them, the VMware cloud foundation, >>Just their business model. They're going to operate that you guys will operate the AWS cloud. >>We operate the VMware and IBM operates that service, but we go to market together with IBM on their service, right. And we work very closely with them. >>So this is a choice thing for you guys, as nothing to do with picking a better part, I'll even use the word primary. Okay. >>I mean, like Pat talked about, uh, the QA session, we've had lots of customers that are customers of AWS and for them, the first choice might be the VMware cloud on AWS. We equally got a lot of customers that are customers of IBM and for them and software and for them, uh, the choice would be running their on the IBM cloud with the cloud. >>Thanks for taking the time to speak with us. I'll give you the final word, not on the business side, cause it's pretty obvious. It's a good win-win on the business side. What is the coolest technical under the hood thing about this deal that people should know about? >>I think what AWS has engineered to build a service and how we are taking advantage of it for Delaware and elastic data centers across the globe is going to be very, very cool. Once you can talk more about it in a public domain >>Raku he's he had a, vice-president great to see you, a chief architect of this deal among many other things at VM-ware well-known within the industry legend in the, uh, VMware community. Thanks for joining us here on the non live Q, but we're here in San Francisco for the exclusive announcement of the AWS VMware relationship partnership integration. A lot of glad of goodness there. I'm John Ferrari. Thanks for watching.