>>Mhm Yes. Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm john Kerry host of the cube here in Palo alto California. We've got two great guests all the way from Ohio and here in the bay area with sequence securities is our focus on cloud growth companies. Sri and met a co founder and CTO of sequence security and Jason Kent hacker in residence at sequence security. We're gonna find out what that actually means in the second but this is a really important company in the sense of A P. I. S. As they are starting to be the connective tissue between systems and and data. Um you're starting to see more vulnerabilities, more risk but also more upside. So risk, reward is high. And anyone who's doing things in the cloud obviously deals with the A. P. I. So Trey and Jason. Thanks for let's keep conversation. >>Happy to be here >>guys. Let's let's talk about A P. I. Security. And but first before we get there trans what does sequence security do? What do you guys specifically build? And what do you sell >>sequences in the business protecting your web and um A P. I. S from various kinds of attacks? Uh We protect from business logic attacks, A P. I. Uh do your api inventory, uh also the detect and defend against things like a town taker. Where's fake account creation, scraping pretty much anything and everything. An application on a PDA is exposed to from from the Attackers. >>Jason. What do you what do you do there as hacker and residents? I also want to get your perspective on api security from the point of view of, you know, uh attack standpoint from a vector. How are people doing it? So first explain what you do and uh love the title hacker and residents. But also what does that actually mean from a security standpoint? >>Yeah. So we can't be in the business that we're in without having an adversarial approach to where our customers are deployed and how we look at them. So a lot of times I spend my time trying to be on the client's backdoors and and try to hit their A. P. I. S. With as many kinds of attacks that I can. It helps us understand how an attacker is going to approach a specific client as well as helps us tune for our machine learning models to make sure that we can defend against those kinds of things. Um as a hacker and residents, my mostly my position is client facing. But I do spend an awful lot of time being research and looking for the next api threat that's out there. >>You gotta stay ahead of the bad guys. But let's bring up some kind of cutting edge relevant topics. One is all over the news cycle. You heard peloton, very highly visible company, It represents that new breed of digital companies that have a new approach and it's absolutely doing very, very well. The new consumers like this product and you're seeing a lot more peloton, like companies out there that are leveraging technology, so they're fully integrated, they had an A. P. I. Issue recently. Um what does it mean? Is that, is that something we're gonna see more of these kind of leaks in these kind of vulnerabilities? What do you guys think about this political thing, >>You know, from an attacker's perspective as a really boring attack? Um, but it led to a huge amount of data leaking out. Same with, you know, the news has been been right with this lately, right, john Deere got hit. Um We've seen yet another credit bureau got hit right. Um and these attacks are coming off as fairly simple attacks that are dumping huge amounts of data, just proving that the FBI attack surface is really a great place to get a rich amount of data, but you have to have a good understanding of how the application works so you can spend a little bit of time on it. But once you've taken a look at how the data flows, you end up with, you know, pretty rich data set as an attacker. I go after them just by simply utilizing their products, utilizing the programs and understanding how they work. And then I drag out all the pieces that I think are going to be interesting and start plucking away at it. If I see a like a profile, for instance, that I can edit, I wonder can I edit someone else's profile. And this is how the peloton attack work. I'm logged in, I'm allowed to see my things, what other things can I see? And it turns out they can see everything. >>So we also saw a hack with clubhouse, which is the hot app now I think just opened up to android users, but they were simply calling it back and Agora, which is, you know, I've seen china, but once you've understood that the tokens work, once you understood what they were doing, you could essentially go in and figure things out. There seems to be like pretty like trivial stuff, but it gets exposed. No one kind of thinks it through. How does someone protect themselves against these things? Because that's the real issue, like just make it less secure. Our Api is gonna be more secure in the future. What can customers do about what do you guys to think about this? >>Yeah, but the reality is, I mean that's just uh too many babies out there. I mean if you see the transition that is happening and that is the transformation where it used to be like a one app or two apps before and now there are like hundreds and thousands of applications driven by the devops world, a child development and and what matters is, I mean the starting point really is you cannot protect what, you cannot see what used to be. Uh an up hosted in your data center is now being hosted in the cloud environments, in the virtual environments, in several less environments and coordinators, you name it, they're out there. So the key is really to understand your attack surface, that's your starting point. So you're you're tooling your applications need to uh I need to be able to provide that visibility that that that is needed to protect these applications and you can't rely just on your developers to do this for you. So you need a right tool that can secure these applications, >>Jason what's the steps that an attacker takes to uncover vulnerabilities? What goes through the mind of the attacker? Um I mean the old days you used to just do port scans and try to penetrate you get through the perimeter. Now with this no perimeter mindset, the surface area Schramm was talking about is huge. What what's going on the mind of the attacker here and the A P I S and vulnerabilities. >>So the very first thing that we do is we sign up for an account, we use the thing, right? We look at all the different endpoints. Um I've got scripts running in my attack tools that do things like show me comments uh in case the developer left some comments in there to tell me where things are. Um I basically I'm just going to poke around using it like a regular user, but in that I'm going to look for places. That makes sense to try to do an attack. So the login screen is a really easy thing. Everybody understands that you put in a user name, you put in a password, you can't go. What I'm gonna do is put in a bad username and a bad password. I'm gonna put in a good user name and a bad password and I'm gonna see what changes, what are the different things that your application is telling me. And so when we look at an application for flaws and ways to get to the data on the back end, all we're doing is seeing what data do you present me on standard use. And then I'm going to look at, well, how can I change these parameters or what are the things that I can change in my requests to get a different response? So in the early phases of an attack, Attackers are very difficult to a seat. Right. They just look like a regular user just doing regular things. It's when we decide. All right. I've found something that starts to get actually interesting and we start to try to pull data out. >>What are some of the common vulnerabilities and risks that you guys see in the A. P. I is when you look when you poke at them that people are are doing is that they're not really doing their homework. Doing good. Security designers are just more of tech risk. What's the most common vulnerabilities and risks? >>Well, so for me, I I've noticed a lot of the OAS KPI top 10, the first couple of things you see them on almost all applications, so broken object level authorization is the first one. It's mouthful. Um but basically all it is is I log onto the platform, I'm authorized to be there, but I can see someone else's stuff and that's exactly what happened in peloton. Um that and what we call insecure direct object reference where I don't have to be logged in, I can just make the request without any authentication and get information back. So those are pretty common areas um that you know people need to focus on, but there's a few others that are outside the top 10 that really make a lot more sense as a defender strains probably has a little better answer to me. >>Yeah. So um I'm like like we said um creating that inventories is key, but where are they being hostess? Another another aspect of things. So so when when Jason spoke about um like hackers are actually probing, trying to figure out what are the different entry points? It could be your production environment, it could be your QA environment staging environment and you're not even aware of, but once you've actually figured out those entry points, the next step of attack was like at peloton and and other places is really eggs filtering. Exfiltrate ng that that information. Right. Is it, is it the O P II information, ph I information um and and you don't want to exfiltrate as a hacker, just one person's information. You you're automating that business logic that is behind it ability to protect and defend against those kinds of attacks, giving that visibility, even though you might not have instrumented that application for for that kind of visibility is key. Once you are bubbling up those behaviors, then you can go ahead and and and protect from these kinds of attacks. And it could be about just simply enumerating through I. D. S. Uh that paladin might have or uh experience might have and just enumerate through that and exfiltrate the information behind it. So the tools need to be able to protect from those kinds of attacks out there. >>Yeah, I think I was actually on clubhouse when um that went down that hole enumerating through the I. D. S. Room I. D. S. And then the people just querying once they got an I. D. They essentially just sucked all the content out because they were just calling the back end. It was just like the most dumbest thing I've ever seen, but they didn't think about, I mean, you know, they were just rushing really fast. So So the question I have for transit and on a defense basis, people are going first party um with a P. I. S. A. P. I. First strategies because it's just some benefits there as we were talking about what do I need to do to protect myself? So I don't have that clubhouse problem or the pelton problem. Is there a Is there a playbook or is their software tools that I could use? How do I build? My apologies from day one and my principles around it to be good hygiene or good design? What's the what's the >>yeah. So aPI security is sort of a looking uh less known given that it's constantly evolving and changing. And the adoption of A P. S. Have gone up significantly. So what you need to start with effectively is the runtime security aspect of things. When a an aPI is live, how do I actually protected? And it ranges from simple syntactic protection things around people. Can can go ahead and break these ap is by providing sort of uh going after endpoints that you don't think exist anymore or going after certain functions by giving large values that they're not sort of coded to accept and so on so forth. Once you've done that runtime protection from a syntactic aspect, you also need to protect from a business logic aspect. I mean, mps will will expose uh information, interact with the customers and partners, what what business logic are they actually exposing and how can it be abused? Understanding that is another big aspects and then you can go ahead and protect from a runtime uh from a long time security perspective, once you've done that and understood that, well then you can start shifting lap things, invest in your uh sort of uh Dass tools or static analysis tools which can catch these things early so that they don't bubble up all the way, but none of them are actually silver bullets, right? So that you have a good uh time security tools, so I don't need to invest in dust or assessed whatever I have invested in my shift left aspect of things and uh and nothing will flow through. So you you need to start shifting left uh but covered all your bases properly, >>you can't shift left, there's nothing to shift from. I mean if you don't have that baseline foundation, what does that even mean to shift left and get that built into the Ci cd pipeline? So that's a great point. How does how does someone and some companies and teams set that foundation with the run time? Do you think it's a critical problem right now or most people are do a good job or they just get get lazy or just lose track of it or you know what, what's what's the common um, use case? Do you see behavior behaviorally inside these enterprises? >>Yeah. So what, what we're seeing is adoption of new technologies and environments um, and they're not um, well suited for the traditional way of doing that time. Security. Like if if you have an app running in your kubernetes environment, if you have an app running in in in a serval less environment, how do you actually protected with the traditional appliance based approach? So I think being able to get that visibility into these environments, understanding the the user behavior, how these applications are interacted with being able to differentiate from that uh, normal human behavior or even sometimes legitimate automation uh from from the malicious intents or or the the probing and the business logic attacks is key to understanding and defending these applications. >>Before we wrap up, I want to just get your expert opinion since you guys are both here around, you know, the next level of of innovation. Also you got cloud public cloud showed us a P. I. S are great. Now you're starting to see cloud operations, they call day two operations or whatever you call it A IOP. There's all kinds of buzz words are for it, but hybrid cloud and multi cloud, Edge five G. These are all basically pointing to distributed computing systems, basically distributed cloud. So that means more A P. I. Is gonna be out there. Um So in a way the surface area of a piece is increasing. What's your what's your view on this as a market? I mean, early days developing fast and what's, what's the, what's the landscape look like? What do you guys see from a attack and defense standpoint? >>Well, just from the attacker's perspective, you know, I see a lot more traffic going, what we call east west traffic, where it's traveling inside the application, it's a P is feeding a ps more data. Um, but what is really happening is we're trying to figure out how to hook third parties into our api is more and more. The john Deere attack was just simply their development api platform that they open up for other organizations to integrate with them. Um, you know, it's, it's very beneficial for John Deere to be able to say I planted this seed at an inch and a half of depth and later, uh, I harvested 280 bushels of corn off that acres. So I know that's perfect. I can feed that back to my seed guy. Well that kind of data flow that's going around from AP to AP means that there's far more attack surface and we're going to see it more and more. I I don't think that we're going to have less Ap is communicating in the near future. I think this is the foundation that we're building for what it's gonna look like for almost every business in the near term. >>I mean this is the plumbing of integration. I mean as people work with each other data transfer, data knowledge format, you mentioned syntax and all these basic things in computer science are coming to A PS which was supposed to be just a dumb pipe or just, you know, rest api those glory days now it's not there. They're basically, it's basically connections. >>Yeah. You're absolutely right. John, I mean like what Jason mentioned earlier, uh, in terms of the way the A. P. I. S are going to grow and the bad guys are going to go after it. You need to think like a bad guy, what are they going to go after? Uh, these assets that are going to be in the cloud, in your hybrid environment, in in your own prem environment. And, and it's, it's a flip of a switch where an internal API can be externally exposed or, or just a new api getting rolled out. So all those things you need to be able to protect, um, and get that visibility first and then being then protect these environments. >>That's awesome. You guys represent the new kind of company that's going to take advantage of the cloud scale and as people shift to the new structural change and people are re factoring security, This is an area that's going to be explosive in development. Obviously the upside is huge. Um Quickly before to end, you guys take a minute to give a plug for the company. Um This is pretty cool. I love love what you guys do. I think it's very relevant and cool at the same time. So sequence security. What are you guys doing funding hiring? What's the plug? Tell folks about it. >>Yeah. So uh we we we started about six years ago but we like starting in the the body defense space by focusing on obscenity ice. And from then we we've grown and we've grown significantly in terms of our customer base, the verticals that we're going after in financial retail social media, you name it, we are there because pretty much all these these uh articles depends on A. P. I. S. To interact with their customers. Uh We've we've raised our cities we last year we've we've grown our customer base. Uh Just in the last year when there was a lockdown people were all these retailers were transforming from brick and mortar to online. Social media also also grew and we grew with them. So >>Jason your thoughts. >>I think that sequence is his ability to scale out to any size environment. We've got a customer that does a billion and a half transactions a month. Um That are ap is from 1000 other clients of theirs. Being able to protect environments that are confusing and cloudy like that. Um Is really it makes what we do shine. We use a lot of machine learning models and ai in order to surface real problems. And we have a lot of great humans behind all of that, making sure that the bad guy maybe they're right now, but they're going away and we're going to keep them away. >>It's super, super awesome. I think it's a combination of more connections, distributed computing at large scale with a data problem. That's, that's playing out. You guys are solving great stuff and hey, you know when the cube studio ap I gets built, we're gonna need to call you guys up to to help us secure the cube data. >>Absolutely right. Absolutely. >>Hey, thanks for coming on the q Great uh, great insight and thanks for sharing about sequence. Appreciate you coming on, >>appreciate the time. >>Okay. It's a cube conversation here in Palo alto with remote guests. I'm john for your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>from around the globe. It's >>the cube >>with coverage of >>Kublai khan and >>Cloud Native Con, Europe 2021 virtual brought >>to you by red hat, >>the cloud Native >>Computing foundation and ecosystem partners. Hello, welcome back to the cubes coverage of Kublai khan. Cloud Native Con 2021 part of the CNC. S continuing cube partnership virtual here because we're not in person soon, we'll be out of the pandemic and hopefully in person for the next event. I'm john for your host of the key. We're here with ricardo. Roach computing engineers sir. In CUBA. I'm not great to see you ricardo. Thanks for remote ng in all the way across the world. Thanks for coming in. >>Hello, Pleasure. Happy to be here. >>I saw your talk with Priyanka on linkedin and all around the web. Great stuff as always, you guys do great work over there at cern. Talk about what's going on with you and the two speaking sessions you have it coop gone pretty exciting news and exciting sessions happening here. So take us through the sessions. >>Yeah. So actually the two sessions are kind of uh showing the two types of things we do with kubernetes. We we are doing we have a lot of uh services moving to kubernetes, but the first one is more on the services we have in the house. So certain is known for having a lot of data and requests, requiring a lot of computing capacity to analyze all this data. But actually we have also very large community and we have a lot of users and people interested in the stuff we do. So the first question will actually show how we've been uh migrating our group of infrastructure into the into communities and in this case actually open shift. And uh the challenge there is to to run a very large amount of uh global websites on coordinators. Uh we run more than 1000 websites and there will be a demonstration on how we do all the management of the website um life cycle, including upgrading and deploying new new websites and an operator that was developed for this purpose. And then more on the other side will give with a colleague also talk about machine learning. Machine learning has been a big topic for us. A lot of our workloads are migrating to accelerators and can benefit a lot from machine learning. So we're giving a talk about a new service that we've deployed on top of Cuban areas where we try to manage to uh lifecycle of machine learning workloads from data preparation all the way to serving the bottles, also exploring the communities features and integrating accelerators and a lot of accelerators. >>So one part of the one session, it's a large scale deployment kubernetes key to there and now the machine learning essentially service for other people to use that. Right? Like take me through the first large scale deployment. What's the key innovation there in your opinion? >>Yeah, I think compared to the infrastructure we had before, is this notion that we can develop an operator that will uh, manage resource, in this case a website. And this is uh, something that is not always obvious when people start with kubernetes, it's not just an orchestra, it's really the ap and the capability of managing a huge amount of resources, including custom resources. So the possibility to develop this operator and then uh, manage the lifecycle of uh, something that was defined in the house and that fits our needs. Uh, There are challenges there because we have a large amount of websites and uh, they can be pretty active. Uh, we also have to some scaling issues on the storage that serves these these websites and we'll give some details uh during the talk as well, >>so kubernetes storage, this is all kind of under the covers, making this easier. Um and the machine learning, it plays nicely in that what if you take us for the machine learning use case, what's going on there, wow, what was the discovery, How did you guys put that together? What's the key elements there? >>Right, so the main challenge there has been um that machine learning is is quite popular but it's quite spread as well, so we have multiple groups focusing on this, but there's no obvious way to centralize not only the resource usage and make it more efficient, but also centralize the knowledge of how these procedures can be done. So what we are trying to do is just offer a service to all our users where we help them with infrastructure so that they don't have to focus on that and they could focus just on their workloads and we do everything from exposing the data systems that we have in the house so that they can do access to the data and data preparation and then doing um some iteration using notebooks and then doing distributed training with potentially large amount of gps and that storage and serving up the models and all of this is uh is managed with the coordinates cluster underneath. Uh We had a lot of knowledge of how to handle kubernetes and uh all the features that everyone likes scalability. The reliability out of scaling is very important for this type of workload. This is, this is key. >>Yeah, it's interesting to see how kubernetes is maturing, um congratulations on the projects. Um they're going to probably continue to scale. Remember this reminds me of when I was uh you know coming into the business in the 98 late eighties early nineties with TCP I. P. And the S. I. Model, you saw the standards evolve and get settled in and then boom innovation everywhere. And that took about a year to digest state and scale up. It's happening much faster now with kubernetes I have to ask you um what's your experience with the question that people are looking to get answered? Which is as kubernetes goes, the next generation of the next step? Um People want to integrate. So how is kubernetes exposing a. P. I. S. To say integration points for tools and other things? Can you share your experience and where this is going, what's happening now and where it goes? Because we know there's no debate. People like the kubernetes aspect of it, but now it's integration is the conversation. Can you share your thoughts on that? >>I can try. Uh So it's uh I would say it's a moving target, but I would say the fact that there's such a rich ecosystem around kubernetes with all the cloud, David projects, uh it's it's uh like a real proof that the popularity of the A. P. I. And this is also something that we after we had the first step of uh deploying and understanding kubernetes, we started seeing the potential that it's not reaching only the infrastructure itself, it's reaching all the layers, all the stack that we support in house and premises. And also it's opening up uh doors to easily scale into external resources as as well. So what we've been trying to tell our users is to rely on these integrations as much as possible. So this means like the application lifecycle being managed with things like Helmand getups, but also like the monitoring being managed with Prometheus and once you're happy with your deployment in house we have ways to scale out to external resources including public clouds. And this is really like see I don't know a proof that all these A. P. I. S are not only popular but incredibly useful because there's such a rich ecosystem around it. >>So talk about the role of data in this obviously machine learning pieces something that everyone is interested in as you get infrastructure as code and devops um and def sec ops as everything's shifting left. I love that, love that narrative day to our priests. All this is all proving mature, mature ization. Um data is critical. Right? So now you get real time information, real time data. The expectations for the apps is to integrate the data. What's your view on how this is progressing from your standpoint because machine learning and you mentioned you know acceleration or being part of another system. Cashing has always done that would say databases. Right. So you've got now is databases get slower, caches are getting faster now they're all the ones so it's all changing. So what's your thoughts on this next level data equation into kubernetes? Because you know stateless is cool but now you've got state issues. >>Yeah so uh yeah we we've always had huge needs for for data we store and I I think we are over half an exhibit of data available on the premises but we we kind of have our own storage systems which are external and that's for for like the physics data, the raw data and one particular charity that we had with our workloads until recently is that we we call them embarrassing parallel in the sense that they don't really need uh very tight connectivity between the different workloads. So if it's people always say tens of thousands of jobs to do some analysis, they're actually quite independent, they will produce a lot more data but we can store them independently. Machine learning is is posing a challenge in the sense that this is a training tends to be a lot more interconnected. Um so it can be a benefit from from um systems that we are not so familiar with. So for us it's it's maybe not so much the cashing layers themselves is really understanding how our infrastructure needs to evolve on premises to support this kind of workloads. We had some smallish uh more high performance computing clusters with things like infinite and for low latency. But this is not the bulk of our workloads. This is not what we are experts on these days. This is the transition we are doing towards uh supporting this machine learning workers >>um just as a reference for the folks watching you mentioned embarrassing parallel and that's a quote that you I read on your certain tech blog. So if you go to tech blog dot web dot search dot ch or just search cern tech blog, you'll see the post there um and good stuff there and in there you go, you lay out a bunch of other things too where you start to see the deployment services and customer resource definitions being part of this, is it going to get to the point where automation is a bigger part of the cluster management setting stuff up quicker. Um As you look at some of the innovations you're doing with machines and Coubertin databases and thousands of other point things that you're working on there, I mean I know you've got a lot going on there, it's in the post but um you know, we don't want to have the problem of it's so hard to stand up and manage and this is what people want to make simpler. How do you how do you answer that when people say say we want to make it easier? >>Yeah. So uh for us it's it's really automate everything and up to now it has been automate the deployment in the kubernetes clusters right now we are looking at automating the kubernetes clusters themselves. So there's some really interesting projects, uh So people are used to using things like terra form to manage the deployment of clusters, but there are some projects like cross playing, for example, that allows us to have the clusters themselves being resources within kubernetes. Uh and this is something we are exploring quite a bit. Uh This allows us to also abstract the kubernetes clusters themselves uh as uh as carbonated resources. So this this idea of having a central cluster that will manage a much larger infrastructure. So this is something that we're exploring the getups part is really key for us to, it's something that eases the transition from from from people that are used already to manage large scale systems but are not necessarily experts on core NATO's. Uh they see that there's an easier past there if they if they can be introduced slowly through through the centralized configuration. >>You know, you mentioned cross plane, I had some on earlier, he's awesome dude, great guy and I was smiling because you know I still have you know flashbacks and trigger episodes from the Hadoop world, you know when it was such so promising that technology but it was just so hard to stand up and managed to be like really an expert to do that. And I think you mentioned cross plane, this comes up to the whole operator notion of operating the clusters, right? So you know, this comes back down to provisioning and managing the infrastructure, which is, you know, we all know is key, right? But when you start getting into multi cloud and multiple environments, that's where it becomes challenging. And I think I like what they're doing is that something that's on your mind to around hybrid and multi cloud? Can you share your thoughts on that whole trajectory? >>Absolutely. So I actually gave an internal seminar just last week describing what we've been playing with in this area and I showed some demo of using cross plane to manage clusters on premises but also manage clusters running on public clouds. A. W. S. Uh google cloud in nature and it's really like the goal there. There are many reasons we we want to explore external resources. We are kind of used to this because we have a lot of sites around the world that collaborate with us, but specifically for public clouds. Uh there are some some motivations there. The first one is this idea that we have periodic load spikes. So we knew we have international conferences, the number of analysis and job requests goes up quite a bit, so we need to be able to like scale on demand for short periods instead of over provisioning this uh in house. The second one is again coming back to machine learning this idea of accelerators. We have a lot of Cpus, we have a lot less gPS uh so it would be nice to go on fish uh for those in the public clouds. And then there's also other accelerators that are quite interesting, like CPUs and I p u s that will definitely play a role and we probably, or maybe we will never have among premises, will only be able to to use them externally. So in that, in that respect, actually coming back to your previous question, this idea of storage then becomes quite important. So what we've been playing with is not only managing this external cluster centrally, but also managing the wall infrastructure from a central place. So this means uh, making all the clusters, whatever they are look very, very much the same, including like the monitoring and the aggregation of the monitoring centrally. And then as we talked about storage, this idea of having local storage that that will be allow us to do really quick software distribution but also access to the data, >>what you guys are doing as we say, cool. And relevant projects. I mean you got the large scale deployments and the machine learning to really kind of accelerate which will drive a lot of adoption in terms of automation. And as that kicks in when you got to get the foundational work done, I see that clearly the right trajectory, you know, reminds me ricardo, um you know, again not do a little history lesson here, but you know, back when network protocols were moving from proprietary S N A for IBM deck net for digital back in the history the old days the os I Open Systems Interconnect Standard stack was evolving and you know when TCP I P came around that really opened up this interoperability, right? And SAM and I were talking about this kind of cross cloud connections or inter clouding as lou lou tucker. And I talked that open stack in 2013 about inter networking or interconnections and it's about integration and interoperability. This is like the next gen conversation that kubernetes is having. So as you get to scale up which is happening very fast as you get machine learning which can handle data and enable modern applications really it's connecting networks and connecting systems together. This is a huge architectural innovation direction. Could you share your reaction to that? >>Yeah. So actually we are starting the easy way, I would say we are starting with the workloads that are loosely coupled that we don't necessarily have to have this uh tighten inter connectivity between the different deployments, I would say that this is this is already giving us a lot because our like the bulk of our workloads are this kind of batch, embarrassing parallel, uh and we are also doing like co location when we have large workloads that made this kind of uh close inter connectivity then we kind of co locate them in the same deployment, same clouds in region. Um I think like what you describe of having cross clouds interconnectivity, this will be like a huge topic. It is already, I would say so we started investigating a lot of service measure options to try to learn what we can gain from it. There is clearly a benefit for managing services but there will be definitely also potential to allow us to kind of more easily scale out across regions. There's we've seen this by using the public cloud. Some things that we found is for example, this idea of infinite, infinite capacity which is kind of sometimes uh it feels kind of like that even at the scale we have for Cpus But when you start using accelerators, Yeah, you start negotiating like maybe use multiple regions because there's not enough capacity in a single region and you start having to talk to the cloud providers to negotiate this. And this makes the deployments more complicated of course. So this, this interconnectivity between regions and clouds will be a big thing. >>And, and again, low hanging fruit is just a kind of existing market but has thrown the vision out there mainly to kind of talk about what what we're seeing which is the world's are distributed computer. And if you have the standards, good things happen. Open systems, open innovating in the open really could make a big difference is going to be the difference between real value for the society of global society or are we going to get into the silo world? So I think the choice is the industry and I think, you know, Cern and C and C. F and Lennox Foundation and all the companies that are investing in open really is a key inflection point for us right now. So congratulations. Thanks for coming on the cube. Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, Ricardo, rocha computing engineer cern here in the cube coverage of the CN Cf cube con cloud, native con europe. I'm john for your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>mhm Yes, Welcome back to the cubes coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual, which we were in person this year but we're still remote. We still got the Covid coming around the corner. Soon to be in post. Covid got a great guest here, Clayton Coleman architect that red hat cuba love and I've been on many times expanded role again this year. More cloud, more cloud action. Great, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>It's a pleasure >>to be here. So great to see you were just riffing before we came on camera about distributed computing uh and the future of the internet, how it's all evolving, how much fun it is, how it's all changing still. The game is still the same, all that good stuff. But here at Red had some and we're gonna get into that, but I want to just get into the hard news and the real big, big opportunities here you're announcing with red hat new managed cloud services portfolio, take us through that. >>Sure. We're continuing to evolve our open shift managed offerings which has grown now to include um the redhead open shift service on amazon to complement our as your redhead open shift service. Um that means that we have um along with our partnership on IBM cloud and open ship dedicated on both a W S and G C P. We now have um managed open shift on all of the major clouds. And along with that we are bringing in and introducing the first, I think really the first step what we see as uh huh growing and involving the hybrid cloud ecosystem on top of open shift and there's many different ways to slice that, but it's about bringing capabilities on top of open shift in multiple environments and multiple clouds in ways that make developers and operation teams more productive because at the heart of it, that's our goal for open shift. And the broader, open source ecosystem is do what makes all of us safer, more, uh, more productive and able to deliver business value? >>Yeah. And that's a great steak you guys put in the ground. Um, and that's great messaging, great marketing, great value proposition. I want to dig into a little bit with you. I mean, you guys have, I think the only native offering on all the clouds out there that I know of, is that true? I mean, you guys have, it's not just, you know, you support AWS as your and I B M and G C P, but native offerings. >>We do not have a native offering on GCPD offered the same service. And this is actually interesting as we've evolved our approach. You know, everyone, when we talk about hybrid, Hybrid is, um, you know, dealing with the realities of the computing world, We live in, um, working with each of the major clouds, trying to deliver the best immigration possible in a way that drives that consistency across those environments. And so actually are open shift dedicated on AWS service gave us the inspiration a lot of the basic foundations for what became the integrated Native service. And we've worked with amazon very closely to make sure that that does the right thing for customers who have chosen amazon. And likewise, we're trying to continue to deliver the best experience, the best operational reliability that we can so that the choice of where you run your cloud, um, where you run your applications, um, matches the decisions you've already made and where your future investments are gonna be. So we want to be where customers are, but we also want to give you that consistency. That has been a hallmark of um of open shift since the beginning. >>Yeah. And thanks for clarifying, I appreciate that because the manage serves on GCB rest or native. Um let me ask about the application services because Jeff Barr from AWS posted a few weeks ago amazon celebrated their 15th birthday. They're still teenagers uh relatively speaking. But one comment he made that he that was interesting to me. And this applies kind of this cloud native megatrend happening is he says the A. P. I. S are basically the same and this brings up the hybrid environment. You guys are always been into the api side of the management with the cloud services and supporting all that. As you guys look at this ecosystem in open source. How is the role of A PS and these integrations? Because without solid integration all these services could break down and certainly the open source, more and more people are coding. So take me through how you guys look at these applications services because many people are predicting more service is going to be on boarding faster than ever before. >>It's interesting. So um for us working across multiple cloud environments, there are many similarities in those mps, but for every similarity there is a difference and those differences are actually what dr costs and drive complexity when you're integrating. Um and I think a lot of the role of this is, you know, the irresponsible to talk about the role of an individual company in the computing ecosystem moving to cloud native because as many of these capabilities are unlocked by large cloud providers and transformations in the kinds of software that we run at scale. You know, everybody is a participant in that. But then you look at the broad swath of developer and operator ecosystem and it's the communities of people who paper over those differences, who write run books and build um you know, the policies and who build the experience and the automation. Um not just in individual products or an individual clouds, but across the open source ecosystem. Whether it's technologies like answerable or Terror form, whether it's best practices websites around running kubernetes, um every every part of the community is really involved in driving up uh driving consistency, um driving predictability and driving reliability and what we try to do is actually work within those constraints um to take the ecosystem and to push it a little bit further. So the A. P. I. S. May be similar, but over time those differences can trip you up. And a lot of what I think we talked about where the industry is going, where where we want to be is everyone ultimately is going to own some responsibility for keeping their services running and making sure that their applications and their businesses are successful. The best outcome would be that the A. P. R. S are the same and they're open and that both the cloud providers and the open source ecosystem and vendors and partners who drive many of these open source communities are actually all working together to have the most consistent environment to make portability a true strength. But when someone does differentiate and has a true best to bring service, we don't want to build artificial walls between those. I mean, I mean, that's hybrid cloud is you're going to make choices that make sense for you if we tell people that their choices don't work or they can't integrate or, you know, an open source project doesn't support this vendor, that vendor, we're actually leaving a lot of the complexity buried in those organizations. So I think this is a great time to, as we turn over for cloud. Native looking at how we, as much as possible try to drive those ap is closer together and the consistency underneath them is both a community and a vendor. And uh for red hat, it's part of what we do is a core mission is trying to make sure that that consistency is actually real. You don't have to worry about those details when you're ignoring them. >>That's a great point. Before I get into some architectural impact, I want to get your thoughts on um, the, this trends going on, Everyone jumps on the bandwagon. You know, you say, oh yeah, I gotta, I want a data cloud, you know, everything is like the new, you know, they saw Snowflake Apollo, I gotta have some, I got some of that data, You've got streaming data services, you've got data services and native into the, these platforms. But a lot of these companies think it's just, you're just gonna get a data cloud, just, it's so easy. Um, they might try something and then they get stuck with it or they have to re factor, >>how do you look >>at that as an architect when you have these new hot trends like say a data cloud, how should customers be thinking about kicking the tires on services like that And how should they think holistically around architect in that? >>There's a really interesting mindset is, uh, you know, we deal with this a lot. Everyone I talked to, you know, I've been with red hat for 10 years now in an open shift. All 10 years of that. We've gone through a bunch of transformations. Um, and every time I talked to, you know, I've talked to the same companies and organizations over the last 10 years, each point in their evolution, they're making decisions that are the right decision at the time. Um, they're choosing a new capability. So platform as a service is a great example of a capability that allowed a lot of really large organizations to standardize. Um, that ties into digital transformation. Ci CD is another big trend where it's an obvious wind. But depending on where you jumped on the bandwagon, depending on when you adopted, you're going to make a bunch of different trade offs. And that, that process is how do we improve the ability to keep all of the old stuff moving forward as well? And so open api is open standards are a big part of that, but equally it's understanding the trade offs that you're going to make and clearly communicating those so with data lakes. Um, there was kind of the 1st and 2nd iterations of data lakes, there was the uh, in the early days these capabilities were knew they were based around open source software. Um, a lot of the Hadoop and big data ecosystem, you know, started based on some of these key papers from amazon and google and others taking infrastructure ideas bringing them to scale. We went through a whole evolution of that and the input and the output of that basically let us into the next phase, which I think is the second phase of data leak, which is we have this data are tools are so much better because of that first phase that the investments we made the first time around, we're going to have to pay another investment to make that transformation. And so I've actually, I never want to caution someone not to jump early, but it has to be the right jump and it has to be something that really gives you a competitive advantage. A lot of infrastructure technology is you should make the choices that you make one or two big bets and sometimes people say this, you call it using their innovation tokens. You need to make the bets on big technologies that you operate more effectively at scale. It is somewhat hard to predict that. I certainly say that I've missed quite a few of the exciting transformations in the field just because, um, it wasn't always obvious that it was going to pay off to the degree that um, customers would need. >>So I gotta ask you on the real time applications side of it, that's been a big trend, certainly in cloud. But as you look at hybrid hybrid cloud environments, for instance, streaming data has been a big issue. Uh any updates there from you on your managed service? >>That's right. So one of we have to manage services um that are both closely aligned three managed services that are closely aligned with data in three different ways. And so um one of them is redhead open shift streams for Apache Kafka, which is managed cloud service that focuses on bringing that streaming data and letting you run it across multiple environments. And I think that, you know, we get to the heart of what's the purpose of uh managed services is to reduce operational overhead and to take responsibilities that allow users to focus on the things that actually matter for them. So for us, um managed open shift streams is really about the flow of data between applications in different environments, whether that's from the edge to an on premise data center, whether it's an on premise data center to the cloud. And increasingly these services which were running in the public cloud, increasingly these services have elements that run in the public cloud, but also key elements that run close to where your applications are. And I think that bridge is actually really important for us. That's a key component of hybrid is connecting the different locations and different footprints. So for us the focus is really how do we get data moving to the right place that complements our API management service, which is an add on for open ship dedicated, which means once you've brought the data and you need to expose it back out to other applications in the environment, you can build those applications on open shift, you can leverage the capabilities of open shift api management to expose them more easily, both to end customers or to other applications. And then our third services redhead open shift data science. Um and that is a, an integration that makes it easy for data scientists in a kubernetes environment. On open shift, they easily bring together the data to make, to analyze it and to help route it is appropriate. So those three facets for us are pretty important. They can be used in many different ways, but that focus on the flow of data across these different environments is really a key part of our longer term strategy. >>You know, all the customer checkboxes there you mentioned earlier. I mean I'll just summarize that that you said, you know, obviously value faster application velocity time to value. Those are like the checkboxes, Gardner told analysts check those lower complexity. Oh, we do the heavy lifting, all cloud benefits, so that's all cool. Everyone kind of gets that, everyone's been around cloud knows devops all those things come into play right now. The innovation focuses on operations and day to operations, becoming much more specific. When people say, hey, I've done some lift and shift, I've done some Greenfield born in the cloud now, it's like, whoa, this stuff, I haven't seen this before. As you start scaling. So this brings up that concept and then you add in multi cloud and hybrid cloud, you gotta have a unified experience. So these are the hot areas right this year, I would say, you know, that day to operate has been around for a while, but this idea of unification around environments to be fully distributed for developers is huge. >>How do you >>architect for that? This is the number one question I get. And I tease out when people are kind of talking about their environments that challenges their opportunities, they're really trying to architect, you know, the foundation that building to be um future proof, they don't want to get screwed over when they have, they realize they made a decision, they weren't thinking about day to operation or they didn't think about the unified experience across clouds across environments and services. This is huge. What's your take on this? >>So this is um, this is probably one of the hardest questions I think I could get asked, which is uh looking into the crystal ball, what are the aspects of today's environments that are accidental complexity? That's really just a result of the slow accretion of technologies and we all need to make bets when, when the time is right within the business, um and which parts of it are essential. What are the fundamental hard problems and so on. The accidental complexity side for red hat, it's really about um that consistent environment through open shift bringing capabilities, our connection to open source and making sure that there's an open ecosystem where um community members, users vendors can all work together to um find solutions that work for them because there's not, there's no way to solve for all of computing. It's just impossible. I think that is kind of our that's our development process and that's what helps make that accidental complexity of all that self away over time. But in the essential complexity data is tied the location, data has gravity data. Lakes are a great example of because data has gravity. The more data that you bring together, the bigger the scale the tools you can bring, you can invest in more specialized tools. I've almost do that as a specialization centralization. There's a ton of centralization going on right now at the same time that these new technologies are available to make it easier and easier. Whether that's large scale automation um with conflict management technologies, whether that's kubernetes and deploying it in multiple sites in multiple locations and open shift, bringing consistency so that you can run the apps the same way. But even further than that is concentrating, mhm. More of what would have typically been a specialist problem, something that you build a one off around in your organization to work through the problem. We're really getting to a point where pretty soon now there is a technology or a service for everyone. How do you get the data into that service out? How do you secure it? How do you glue it together? Um I think of, you know, some people might call this um you know, the ultimate integration problem, which is we're going to have all of this stuff and all of these places, what are the core concepts, location, security, placement, topology, latency, where data resides, who's accessing that data, We think of these as kind of the building blocks of where we're going next. So for us trying to make investments in, how do we make kubernetes work better across lots of environments. I have a coupon talk coming up this coupon, it's really exciting for me to talk about where we're going with, you know, the evolution of kubernetes, bringing the different pieces more closely together across multiple environments. But likewise, when we talk about our managed services, we've approached the strategy for managed services as it's not just the service in isolation, it's how it connects to the other pieces. What can we learn in the community, in our services, working with users that benefits that connectivity. So I mentioned the open shift streams connecting up environments, we'd really like to improve how applications connect across disparate environments. That's a fundamental property of if you're going to have data uh in one geographic region and you didn't move services closer to that well, those services I need to know and encode and have that behavior to get closer to where the data is, whether it's one data lake or 10. We gotta have that flexibility in place. And so those obstructions are really, and to >>your point about the building blocks where you've got to factor in those building blocks, because you're gonna need to understand the latency impact, that's going to impact how you're gonna handle the compute piece, that's gonna handle all these things are coming into play. So, again, if you're mindful of the building blocks, just as a cloud concept, um, then you're okay. >>We hear this a lot. Actually, there's real challenges in the, the ecosystem of uh, we see a lot of the problems of I want to help someone automate and improved, but the more balkanize, the more spread out, the more individual solutions are in play, it's harder for someone to bring their technology to bear to help solve the problem. So looking for ways that we can um, you know, grease the skids to build the glue. I think open source works best when it's defining de facto solutions that everybody agrees on that openness and the easy access is a key property that makes de facto standards emerged from open source. What can we do to grow defacto standards around multi cloud and application movement and application interconnect I think is a very, it's already happening and what can we do to accelerate it? That's it. >>Well, I think you bring up a really good point. This is probably a follow up, maybe a clubhouse talk or you guys will do a separate session on this. But I've been riffing on this idea of uh, today's silos, tomorrow's component, right, or module. If most people don't realize that these silos can be problematic if not thought through. So you have to kill the silos to bring in kind of an open police. So if you're open, not closed, you can leverage a monolith. Today's monolithic app or full stack could be tomorrow's building block unless you don't open up. So this is where interesting design question comes in, which is, it's okay to have pre existing stuff if you're open about it. But if you stay siloed, you're gonna get really stuck >>and there's going to be more and more pre existing stuff I think, you know, uh even the data lake for every day to lake, there is a huge problem of how to get data into the data lake or taking existing applications that came from the previous data link. And so there's a, there's a natural evolutionary process where let's focus on the mechanisms that actually move that day to get that data flowing. Um, I think we're still in the early phases of thinking about huge amounts of applications. Microservices or you know, 10 years old in the sense of it being a fairly common industry talking point before that we have service oriented architecture. But the difference now is that we're encouraging and building one developer, one team might run several services. They might use three or four different sas vendors. They might depend on five or 10 or 15 cloud services. Those integration points make them easier. But it's a new opportunity for us to say, well, what are the differences to go back to? The point is you can keep your silos, we just want to have great integration in and out of >>those. Exactly, they don't have to you have to break down the silos. So again, it's a tried and true formula integration, interoperability and abstracting away the complexity with some sort of new software abstraction layer. You bring that to play as long as you can paddle with that, you apply the new building blocks, you're classified. >>It sounds so that's so simple, doesn't it? It does. And you know, of course it'll take us 10 years to get there. And uh, you know, after cloud native will be will be galactic native or something like that. You know, there's always going to be a new uh concept that we need to work in. I think the key concepts we're really going after our everyone is trying to run resilient and reliable services and the clouds give us in the clouds take it away. They give us those opportunities to have some of those building blocks like location of geographic hardware resources, but they will always be data that spread. And again, you still have to apply those principles to the cloud to get the service guarantees that you need. I think there's a completely untapped area for helping software developers and software teams understand the actual availability and guarantees of the underlying environment. It's a property of the services you run with. If you're using a disk in a particular availability zone, that's a property of your application. I think there's a rich area that hasn't been mined yet. Of helping you understand what your effective service level goals which of those can be met. Which cannot, it doesn't make a lot of sense in a single cluster or single machine or a single location world the moment you start to talk about, Well I have my data lake. Well what are the ways my data leg can fail? How do we look at your complex web of interdependencies and say, well clearly if you lose this cloud provider, you're going to lose not just the things that you have running there, but these other dependencies, there's a lot of, there's a lot of next steps that we're just learning what happens when a major cloud goes down for a day or a region of a cloud goes down for a day. You still have to design and work around those >>cases. It's distributed computing. And again, I love the space where galactic cloud, you got SpaceX? Where's Cloud X? I mean, you know, space is the next frontier. You know, you've got all kinds of action happening in space. Great space reference there. Clayton, Great insight. Thanks for coming on. Uh, Clayton Coleman architect at red Hat. Clayton, Thanks for coming on. >>Pretty pleasure. >>Always. Great chat. I'm talking under the hood. What's going on in red hats? New managed cloud service portfolio? Again, the world's getting complex, abstract away. The complexities with software Inter operate integrate. That's the key formula with the cloud building blocks. I'm john ferry with the cube. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 Special coverage sponsored by AWS Global Partner Network. Right. Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 were virtual this year. We're not in person. We have to do it remote but the Cuba's virtual And I'm John for your host here with Cube Virtual next guest, Sarah Cooper, who is the general manager of the i o T Solutions with a W s. Sarah. Great to see you. Eso you last year in person. In real life, now we're remote. But thanks for coming on. Thank you. >>Thanks, John. Always good to be on the Cube and great to see you again. I don't know how many years it's been from our initial meeting, but it's been a few. >>Well, we gotta we gotta cube search engine. You were on in 2016, but we saw each other last year on when we're riffing on the i o t. News. A lot of great stuff. I mean, from Speed Racer all the way down through all the industrial stuff. Even more this year. But two things that jumped out at me this year. War is the carrier keynote and also the BlackBerry kind of automotive thing again speaks to kind of two megatrends. Obviously, automotive will get to a second, but the carrier announcement was really interesting. You guys did this thing and I was so impressed with the cold chain, uh, product. It was the connected cold chain. It was called, Um, this is where the carrier, which is known for air conditioning This is critical I o t devices that stays with the vaccines involved. Take a minute to explain what the cold chain connected cold chain project waas. >>Yeah, absolutely. So. So we worked closely and are working closely with Carrier on on a product called Links Now Cold chain. Um, as Dave Gitlin, the CEO of Carrier, described in Andy's keynote eyes about moving perishable goods, things that need certain temperature ranges from point A to point B and that usually it sounds simple. Uh, that's not quite so simple. It's usually you know, least you know, 5 to 25 hops, sometimes as much as 40. Andi zehr these air partial goods This is food. This is medicines. This is vaccines. Very hot topic at the moment. And today you know you're moving between ships and those big tractor trailers, and you've got warehouses with refrigeration units and you've got retail grocery stores with refrigeration units thes air, all different data sources that are owned by different. You know, members of that supply chain that value chain and to end. And so what links does is it pulls the data from all of the curier equipment and then pulls that data and looks across all of this information, using things like machine learning to draw inference and relationship and then be allows us to be able to make smart recommendations on things like routes. Or, if you know, a particular produce might need to stop before its original event to make sure it's got long shelf life. It allows us basically to provide that transparency and toe end, which is so difficult because of the number of players. And it's in part due to curious breath of products. And then, you know, with AWS, we're bringing the digital technology side. We got the i o t. The M l. A lot of big data processing pieces, eh? So we're really excited about that. I have to say It's one of the easiest projects to hire for when you talk about making sure that we're able to reduce food waste from the current 30 to 40% or that we're working on making sure that vaccines are efficacious by the time that they get a vaccination site, engineers sign up pretty quickly. >>You know the cliche. You know, mission driven companies. They're always kind of like people love the work for mission driven companies. In this case, you have a project and group that literally is changing the world. If you think about just the life savings on the on the on the vaccine side, that's obvious. We all can relate to that now with covert on full display. But just in terms of energy consumption, on food, ways to perishables if you get the costs involved to society, hunger around the world. Uh, just >>food is >>just wasted, and there are people starving, right? So when you start looking at this as an instrumentation problem, right, it gets really interesting. So you mentioned supply chain value chain. This is I o t potentially, even Blockchain again. This is a key change. The world area. You guys have a multi year deal with Carrier, So validation. What does that mean? Specifically, you guys gonna provide cloud services? Um, what's that all mean? >>Yeah. So we were bringing our engineering talent as this carrier. This is a code development, so we're actually jointly developing together. They bring a lot of the domain expertise they bring, you know, years and years of experience in refrigeration, Um, and in, you know, track and trace of these products. And we bring engineers who have vast experience at scale in these kinds of inference, challenges and and data management and data quality. And so it's really kind of bringing the best of both worlds. And you see this happening more and more. I think in general, where you've got a company like AWS that has strong digital expertise and a history of product innovation, working with customers that are very innovative themselves, but typically have been innovative in in, you know, traditional hardware products and the two worlds coming together to make sure that we can really solve some of the big challenges that are facing our society today. And, um, again, you know, it's great to wake up in the morning and get to work on a project that has that kind of impact. >>Well, before we move on to the whole BlackBerry automotive thing, which is another whole fascinating thing share something that people might not know about this carrier project. That's important. Um, whether it's something anecdotal, something that you know, Um, that's important. What, what what's what's What else is there that's game changing that you think is important to point out? >>Yeah, you know, I don't know that when we first started working with Carrier on on scoping this project that I had really thought through all the different players that are touched by cold chain. Um, certainly we've got a number of them within Amazon with our our fulfillment technologies and our grocery stores. That that's logical. Um, you think about the shippers and people who are out, you know, um, farming. And you know, I mean, crabmeat is something that moves in these big refrigerated containers, but actually there's there are transportation companies. There's drivers of these big rigs that need to make sure that they're being that they have fuel consumption management. You've got customers, you know, really kind of throughout that piece, freight forwarders. And so really the breath of the people that are touched, not just you and I is consumers of of perishable goods and fruits and produce on DNA medicines, but also really, that full end to end ecosystem on that's That's both the exciting part from A from a business standpoint, but also the exciting part from the technology stand. >>Well, it's great work, and I applaud you for it's one of those things where foodways isn't just a supply chain impacts the rest of the world because you're more efficient. You could distribute food, toe other places where people are hungry and just its overall impact is huge trickle effect. So impact is huge. Okay, now let's talk about the automotive peace. Because last year we had on the Cube folks from BlackBerry and remember them came on like BlackBerry. Isn't that the phone that went extinct by the iPhone? No, no. There's a whole nother io ti automotive thing around. Ivy Ivy? Why intelligent vehicle data platform? You guys just announced a multiyear agreement with them to develop that product combined with some of the I O. T and machine learning. Could you take him in to explain what this relationship is. What does it mean? What does it mean for the industry? >>Yeah, it's It's similar to the carrier relationship. You know we are. We're engineering together. Um, in this instance Q and X, which is a division of BlackBerry, is in 175 million vehicles. I mean, just think about that. They're running under the covers, and they are. They are a safety security layer and a real time operating system. So you know, when you think about all of the products, really end end in Q and X isn't just in automotives. It's in nuclear power plants. It's in manufacturing automation. It's one of those products that that you probably benefit from, but you didn't know it. Um, and in the automotive space, it's the piece that manages the safety certified layers of data coming off of sensors in the car. And so, fundamentally, what we're doing with Ivy is we're up leveling that information today. If you think about a car, you've got 1500 suppliers that are all providing parts into that far, which means that different makes and models have different seats. Sensors to give you wait in the back, you know, seat as an example. And so if do you want to write an application that tries to determine if that weight in the back seat is your dog or not, my dog happens to be bothering me at the moment. Z. >>That's one of the benefits of working at home. You know? >>Absolutely. So we'll use him as an excuse here. But if you want to know if that's a dog on the back seat, um, being able Thio, then figure out the PC electric measurements and the algorithms, um means you have to know what sensors air in that back seat, which means you got to write essentially an application Pir sensor manufacturer for vehicle make and model That doesn't work so fundamentally What Ivy does, is it? It abstracts away the differences between the vendors and then it up levels information by using machine learning and analytics running in the car. To be able to allow a developer to say, you know, a P I. Is there a dog in the car like How simple is that? I don't have to figure out what the weight measurement is. I don't know. I have to know if there's cameras in the car or if there's some other way to know. If the dog I just need to ask, Is there dog in the car? And the A P. I, for my view, will tell you yes, No, or I don't know, you know, because sometimes there isn't the technology to know that. And then the application developer can then use that information to build delightful experiences, things that make your dog behave, hopefully, things that might help protect them on a hot day. Um, you know, in things where you know that if there's a child in the car, you don't play explicit lyrics. If they're fighting in the back seat, you make sure that the cartoons go off until they behave themselves and cartoons come back on. There are lots of in vehicle experiences that can be enabled by this as well as vehicle operations. So, you know, being able to do >>yeah and all that stuff. >>Yeah, Selective recalls making sure that Onley cars that are actually affected need to come in and making sure that that you know, that's that's quantified and that, you know, it is actually safe to drive to the point of recall. All of that could be done on a vehicle by vehicle basis. >>So are you competing with car companies now? >>No, fundamentally, the oe EMS are the Are the companies that that the car manufacturers are those that end up delivering this capability and they own the data. You know, this isn't something where BlackBerry or A W S owns the data the auto manufacturers dio so it's there platforms to make a delightful experience out of, um, we're just helping to make sure that that's as easy as possible and opening up. You know, the potential innovation so that it's, you know, it's certainly their developers internally. But if they want take advantage of the millions of AWS developers now, they could do that. >>Sarah, Great to have you on one of the things. I just want a final questions or final point. Let's get your reaction to Is that it seems to me with the cloud in this post covert scale error when you start to get into edge, um, you know, industrial I o t. You hear things like instrumentation supply chain, these air buzzwords, these air kind of characteristics all kind of in play. But the other observation is partnerships, arm or co engineering. Co development vibe. Is that just unique? Thio what you're doing? Or do you see this as kind of as a template for partnering? Because when you start to get these abstraction layers, the heavy lifting can be under the covers. You have this enablement model. What's your quick take on this? >>Yeah, I think we talk about undifferentiated heavy lifting, a lot of Amazon on defunding mentally. That's different for each industry. And he talked about that. His keynote. And so I think you know you'll see more and more co development and co engineering coming from from companies across when we have big technical challenges and these air complex problems to solve it takes a village >>awesome. Sarah Cooper Thanks for coming on GM of Iot. TIF Solutions A. The best to great success stories. The carrier and Blackberry, one Automotive with Black Braids operating system that powers the safety and for cars and, hopefully, future of application, development and carrier, with the cold connected chain delivering perishable goods, vaccines and food. Changing the game. That's a game changer. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks, John appreciate. Always good to see you. >>Okay. Cube coverage. Jump shot for your host. Stay with us from or coverage throughout the day and all next couple weeks. Thanks for watching. Yeah. Mhm.

>>Hi, everyone. My name is my uncle. My uncle Poor I worked with Geo reminds you in India. We call ourselves Geo Platforms. Now on. We've been recently in the news. You've raised a lot off funding from one of the largest, most of the largest tech companies in the world. And I'm here to talk about Geos Cloud Journey, Onda Mantis Partnership. I've titled it the story often, Underdog becoming the largest telecom company in India within four years, which is really special. And we're, of course, held by the cloud. So quick disclaimer. Right. The content shared here is only for informational purposes. Um, it's only for this event. And if you want to share it outside, especially on social media platforms, we need permission from Geo Platforms limited. Okay, quick intro about myself. I am a VP of engineering a geo. I lead the Cloud Services and Platforms team with NGO Andi. I mean the geo since the beginning, since it started, and I've seen our cloud footprint grow from a handful of their models to now eight large application data centers across three regions in India. And we'll talk about how we went here. All right, Let's give you an introduction on Geo, right? Giorgio is on how we became the largest telecom campaign, India within four years from 0 to 400 million subscribers. And I think there are There are a lot of events that defined Geo and that will give you an understanding off. How do you things and what you did to overcome massive problems in India. So the slide that I want to talkto is this one and, uh, I The headline I've given is, It's the Geo is the fastest growing tech company in the world, which is not a new understatement. It's eggs, actually, quite literally true, because very few companies in the world have grown from zero to 400 million subscribers within four years paying subscribers. And I consider Geo Geos growth in three phases, which I have shown on top. The first phase we'll talk about is how geo grew in the smartphone market in India, right? And what we did to, um to really disrupt the telecom space in India in that market. Then we'll talk about the feature phone phase in India and how Geo grew there in the future for market in India. and then we'll talk about what we're doing now, which we call the Geo Platforms phase. Right. So Geo is a default four g lt. Network. Right. So there's no to geo three g networks that Joe has, Um it's a state of the art four g lt voiceover lt Network and because it was designed fresh right without any two D and three G um, legacy technologies, there were also a lot of challenges Lawn geo when we were starting up. One of the main challenges waas that all the smart phones being sold in India NGOs launching right in 2000 and 16. They did not have the voice or lt chip set embedded in the smartphone because the chips it's far costlier to embed in smartphones and India is a very price and central market. So none of the manufacturers were embedding the four g will teach upset in the smartphones. But geos are on Lee a volte in network, right for the all the network. So we faced a massive problem where we said, Look there no smartphones that can support geo. So how will we grow Geo? So in order to solve that problem, we launched our own brand of smartphones called the Life um, smartphones. And those phones were really high value devices. So there were $50 and for $50 you get you You At that time, you got a four g B storage space. A nice big display for inch display. Dual cameras, Andi. Most importantly, they had volte chip sets embedded in them. Right? And that got us our initial customers the initial for the launch customers when we launched. But more importantly, what that enabled other oh, EMS. What that forced the audience to do is that they also had to launch similar smartphones competing smartphones with voltage upset embedded in the same price range. Right. So within a few months, 3 to 4 months, um, all the other way EMS, all the other smartphone manufacturers, the Samsung's the Micromax is Micromax in India, they all had volte smartphones out in the market, right? And I think that was one key step We took off, launching our own brand of smartphone life that helped us to overcome this problem that no smartphone had. We'll teach upsets in India and then in order. So when when we were launching there were about 13 telecom companies in India. It was a very crowded space on demand. In order to gain a foothold in that market, we really made a few decisions. Ah, phew. Key product announcement that really disrupted this entire industry. Right? So, um, Geo is a default for GLT network itself. All I p network Internet protocol in everything. All data. It's an all data network and everything from voice to data to Internet traffic. Everything goes over this. I'll goes over Internet protocol, and the cost to carry voice on our smartphone network is very low, right? The bandwidth voice consumes is very low in the entire Lt band. Right? So what we did Waas In order to gain a foothold in the market, we made voice completely free, right? He said you will not pay anything for boys and across India, we will not charge any roaming charges across India. Right? So we made voice free completely and we offer the lowest data rates in the world. We could do that because we had the largest capacity or to carry data in India off all the other telecom operators. And these data rates were unheard off in the world, right? So when we launched, we offered a $2 per month or $3 per month plan with unlimited data, you could consume 10 gigabytes of data all day if you wanted to, and some of our subscriber day. Right? So that's the first phase off the overgrowth and smartphones and that really disorders. We hit 100 million subscribers in 170 days, which was very, very fast. And then after the smartphone faith, we found that India still has 500 million feature phones. And in order to grow in that market, we launched our own phone, the geo phone, and we made it free. Right? So if you take if you took a geo subscription and you carried you stayed with us for three years, we would make this phone tree for your refund. The initial deposit that you paid for this phone and this phone had also had quite a few innovations tailored for the Indian market. It had all of our digital services for free, which I will talk about soon. And for example, you could plug in. You could use a cable right on RCR HDMI cable plug into the geo phone and you could watch TV on your big screen TV from the geophones. You didn't need a separate cable subscription toe watch TV, right? So that really helped us grow. And Geo Phone is now the largest selling feature phone in India on it. 100 million feature phones in India now. So now now we're in what I call the geo platforms phase. We're growing of a geo fiber fiber to the home fiber toe the office, um, space. And we've also launched our new commerce initiatives over e commerce initiatives and were steadily building platforms that other companies can leverage other companies can use in the Jeon o'clock. Right? So this is how a small startup not a small start, but a start of nonetheless least 400 million subscribers within four years the fastest growing tech company in the world. Next, Geo also helped a systemic change in India, and this is massive. A lot of startups are building on this India stack, as people call it, and I consider this India stack has made up off three things, and the acronym I use is jam. Trinity, right. So, um, in India, systemic change happened recently because the Indian government made bank accounts free for all one billion Indians. There were no service charges to store money in bank accounts. This is called the Jonathan. The J. GenDyn Bank accounts. The J out off the jam, then India is one of the few countries in the world toe have a digital biometric identity, which can be used to verify anyone online, which is huge. So you can simply go online and say, I am my ankle poor on duh. I verify that this is indeed me who's doing this transaction. This is the A in the jam and the last M stands for Mobil's, which which were held by Geo Mobile Internet in a plus. It is also it is. It also stands for something called the U. P I. The United Unified Payments Interface. This was launched by the Indian government, where you can carry digital transactions for free. You can transfer money from one person to the to another, essentially for free for no fee, right so I can transfer one group, even Indian rupee to my friend without paying any charges. That is huge, right? So you have a country now, which, with a with a billion people who are bank accounts, money in the bank, who you can verify online, right and who can pay online without any problems through their mobile connections held by G right. So suddenly our market, our Internet market, exploded from a few million users to now 506 106 100 million mobile Internet users. So that that I think, was a massive such a systemic change that happened in India. There are some really large hail, um, numbers for this India stack, right? In one month. There were 1.6 billion nuclear transactions in the last month, which is phenomenal. So next What is the impact of geo in India before you started, we were 155th in the world in terms off mobile in terms of broadband data consumption. Right. But after geo, India went from one 55th to the first in the world in terms of broadband data, largely consumed on mobile devices were a mobile first country, right? We have a habit off skipping technology generation, so we skip fixed line broadband and basically consuming Internet on our mobile phones. On average, Geo subscribers consumed 12 gigabytes of data per month, which is one of the highest rates in the world. So Geo has a huge role to play in making India the number one country in terms off broad banded consumption and geo responsible for quite a few industry first in the telecom space and in fact, in the India space, I would say so before Geo. To get a SIM card, you had to fill a form off the physical paper form. It used to go toe Ah, local distributor. And that local distributor is to check the farm that you feel incorrectly for your SIM card and then that used to go to the head office and everything took about 48 hours or so, um, to get your SIM card. And sometimes there were problems there also with a hard biometric authentication. We enable something, uh, India enable something called E K Y C Elektronik. Know your customer? We took a fingerprint scan at our point of Sale Reliance Digital stores, and within 15 minutes we could verify within a few minutes. Within a few seconds we could verify that person is indeed my hunk, right, buying the same car, Elektronik Lee on we activated the SIM card in 15 minutes. That was a massive deal for our growth. Initially right toe onboard 100 million customers. Within our and 70 days. We couldn't have done it without be K. I see that was a massive deal for us and that is huge for any company starting a business or start up in India. We also made voice free, no roaming charges and the lowest data rates in the world. Plus, we gave a full suite of cloud services for free toe all geo customers. For example, we give goTV essentially for free. We give GOTV it'll law for free, which people, when we have a launching, told us that no one would see no one would use because the Indians like watching TV in the living rooms, um, with the family on a big screen television. But when we actually launched, they found that GOTV is one off our most used app. It's like 70,000,080 million monthly active users, and now we've basically been changing culture in India where culture is on demand. You can watch TV on the goal and you can pause it and you can resume whenever you have some free time. So really changed culture in India, India on we help people liver, digital life online. Right, So that was massive. So >>I'm now I'd like to talk about our cloud >>journey on board Animal Minorities Partnership. We've been partners that since 2014 since the beginning. So Geo has been using open stack since 2014 when we started with 14 note luster. I'll be one production environment One right? And that was I call it the first wave off our cloud where we're just understanding open stack, understanding the capabilities, understanding what it could do. Now we're in our second wave. Where were about 4000 bare metal servers in our open stack cloud multiple regions, Um, on that around 100,000 CPU cores, right. So it's a which is one of the bigger clouds in the world, I would say on almost all teams, with Ngor leveraging the cloud and soon I think we're going to hit about 10,000 Bama tools in our cloud, which is massive and just to give you a scale off our network, our in French, our data center footprint. Our network introduction is about 30 network data centers that carry just network traffic across there are there across India and we're about eight application data centers across three regions. Data Center is like a five story building filled with servers. So we're talking really significant scale in India. And we had to do this because when we were launching, there are the government regulation and try it. They've gotten regulatory authority of India, mandates that any telecom company they have to store customer data inside India and none of the other cloud providers were big enough to host our clothes. Right. So we we made all this intellectual for ourselves, and we're still growing next. I love to show you how we grown with together with Moran says we started in 2014 with the fuel deployment pipelines, right? And then we went on to the NK deployment. Pipelines are cloud started growing. We started understanding the clouds and we picked up M C p, which has really been a game changer for us in automation, right on DNA. Now we are in the latest release, ofem CPM CPI $2019 to on open stack queens, which on we've just upgraded all of our clouds or the last few months. Couple of months, 2 to 3 months. So we've done about nine production clouds and there are about 50 internal, um, teams consuming cloud. We call as our tenants, right. We have open stack clouds and we have communities clusters running on top of open stack. There are several production grade will close that run on this cloud. The Geo phone, for example, runs on our cloud private cloud Geo Cloud, which is a backup service like Google Drive and collaboration service. It runs out of a cloud. Geo adds G o g S t, which is a tax filing system for small and medium enterprises, our retail post service. There are all these production services running on our private clouds. We're also empaneled with the government off India to provide cloud services to the government to any State Department that needs cloud services. So we were empaneled by Maiti right in their ego initiative. And our clouds are also Easter. 20,000 certified 20,000 Colin one certified for software processes on 27,001 and said 27,017 slash 18 certified for security processes. Our clouds are also P our data centers Alsop a 942 be certified. So significant effort and investment have gone toe These data centers next. So this is where I think we've really valued the partnership with Morantes. Morantes has has trained us on using the concepts of get offs and in fries cold, right, an automated deployments and the tool change that come with the M C P Morantes product. Right? So, um, one of the key things that has happened from a couple of years ago to today is that the deployment time to deploy a new 100 north production cloud has decreased for us from about 55 days to do it in 2015 to now, we're down to about five days to deploy a cloud after the bear metals a racked and stacked. And the network is also the physical network is also configured, right? So after that, our automated pipelines can deploy 100 0 clock in five days flight, which is a massive deal for someone for a company that there's adding bear metals to their infrastructure so fast, right? It helps us utilize our investment, our assets really well. By the time it takes to deploy a cloud control plane for us is about 19 hours. It takes us two hours to deploy a compu track and it takes us three hours to deploy a storage rack. Right? And we really leverage the re class model off M C. P. We've configured re class model to suit almost every type of cloud that we have, right, and we've kept it fairly generous. It can be, um, Taylor to deploy any type of cloud, any type of story, nor any type of compute north. Andi. It just helps us automate our deployments by putting every configuration everything that we have in to get into using infra introduction at school, right plus M. C. P also comes with pipelines that help us run automated tests, automated validation pipelines on our cloud. We also have tempest pipelines running every few hours every three hours. If I recall correctly which run integration test on our clouds to make sure the clouds are running properly right, that that is also automated. The re class model and the pipelines helpers automate day to operations and changes as well. There are very few seventh now, compared toa a few years ago. It very rare. It's actually the exception and that may be because off mainly some user letter as opposed to a cloud problem. We also have contributed auto healing, Prometheus and Manager, and we integrate parameters and manager with our even driven automation framework. Currently, we're using Stack Storm, but you could use anyone or any event driven automation framework out there so that it indicates really well. So it helps us step away from constantly monitoring our cloud control control planes and clothes. So this has been very fruitful for us and it has actually apps killed our engineers also to use these best in class practices like get off like in France cord. So just to give you a flavor on what stacks our internal teams are running on these clouds, Um, we have a multi data center open stack cloud, and on >>top of that, >>teams use automation tools like terra form to create the environments. They also create their own Cuba these clusters and you'll see you'll see in the next slide also that we have our own community that the service platform that we built on top of open stack to give developers development teams NGO um, easy to create an easy to destroy Cuban. It is environment and sometimes leverage the Murano application catalog to deploy using heats templates to deploy their own stacks. Geo is largely a micro services driven, Um um company. So all of our applications are micro services, multiple micro services talking to each other, and the leverage develops. Two sets, like danceable Prometheus, Stack stone from for Otto Healing and driven, not commission. Big Data's tax are already there Kafka, Patches, Park Cassandra and other other tools as well. We're also now using service meshes. Almost everything now uses service mesh, sometimes use link. Erred sometimes are experimenting. This is Theo. So So this is where we are and we have multiple clients with NGO, so our products and services are available on Android IOS, our own Geo phone, Windows Macs, Web, Mobile Web based off them. So any client you can use our services and there's no lock in. It's always often with geo, so our sources have to be really good to compete in the open Internet. And last but not least, I think I love toe talk to you about our container journey. So a couple of years ago, almost every team started experimenting with containers and communities and they were demand for as a platform team. They were demanding community that the service from us a manage service. Right? So we built for us, it was much more comfortable, much more easier toe build on top of open stack with cloud FBI s as opposed to doing this on bare metal. So we built a fully managed community that a service which was, ah, self service portal, where you could click a button and get a community cluster deployed in your own tenant on Do the >>things that we did are quite interesting. We also handle some geo specific use cases. So we have because it was a >>manage service. We deployed the city notes in our own management tenant, right? We didn't give access to the customer to the city. Notes. We deployed the master control plane notes in the tenant's tenant and our customers tenant, but we didn't give them access to the Masters. We didn't give them the ssh key the workers that the our customers had full access to. And because people in Genova learning and experimenting, we gave them full admin rights to communities customers as well. So that way that really helped on board communities with NGO. And now we have, like 15 different teams running multiple communities clusters on top, off our open stack clouds. We even handle the fact that there are non profiting. I people separate non profiting I peoples and separate production 49 p pools NGO. So you could create these clusters in whatever environment that non prod environment with more open access or a prod environment with more limited access. So we had to handle these geo specific cases as well in this communities as a service. So on the whole, I think open stack because of the isolation it provides. I think it made a lot of sense for us to do communities our service on top off open stack. We even did it on bare metal, but that not many people use the Cuban, indeed a service environmental, because it is just so much easier to work with. Cloud FBI STO provision much of machines and covering these clusters. That's it from me. I think I've said a mouthful, and now I love for you toe. I'd love to have your questions. If you want to reach out to me. My email is mine dot capulet r l dot com. I'm also you can also message me on Twitter at my uncouple. So thank you. And it was a pleasure talking to you, Andre. Let let me hear your questions.

>>from Miami Beach, Florida It's the key. You covering a Cronus Global Cyber Summit 2019. Brought to you by a Cronus. >>Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Cube coverage here in Miami Beach Front and Blue Hotel with Cronus Global Cyber Summit 2019 2 days of coverage. Where here, Getting all the action. What's going on in cyber tools and platforms are developing a new model of cybersecurity. Cronus Leader, Fast growing, rapidly growing back in here in the United States and globally. We're here. William Toll, head of product marketing Cronus. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. >>Thanks, John. I'm excited. You're >>here so way were briefed on kind of the news. But you guys had more news here. First great key notes on then special guest Shark tank on as well. That's a great, great event. But you had some news slip by me. You guys were holding it back. >>So we've opened our A p I, and that's enabling a whole ecosystem to build on top of our cyber protection solutions. >>You guys have a platform infrastructure platform and sweet asserts from backup all the way through protection. All that good stuff as well. Partners. That's not a channel action platforms are the MoD has been rapidly growing. That's 19 plus years. >>And now, with the opening of our AP, eyes were opening the possibility for even Maur innovation from third parties from Eyes V's from managed service providers from developers that want to build on our platform and deliver their solutions to our ecosystem. >>You guys were very technical company and very impressed with people. Actually, cyber, you gotta have the chops, you can't fake it. Cyber. You guys do a great job, have a track record, get the P I. C B Also sdk variety, different layers. So the FBI is gonna bring out more goodness for developers. You guys, I heard a rumor. Is it true that you guys were launching a developer network? >>That's right. So the Cronus developer network actually launches today here in the show, and we're inviting developed officials. That's official. Okay. And they can go to developers that Cronus dot com and when they go in there, they will find a whole platform where they can gain access to forums, documentation and logs, and all of our software development kids as well as a sandbox, so developers can get access to the platform. Start developing within minutes. >>So what's the attraction for Iess fees and developers? I mean, you guys are here again. Technical. What is your pitch developers? Why would they be attracted to your AP eyes? And developer Resource is >>sure it's simple. Our ecosystem way have over 50,000 I t channel partners and they're active in small businesses. Over 500,000 business customers and five million and customers all benefit from solutions that they bring to our cyber cloud solutions >>portal. What type of solutions are available in the platform today? >>So their solutions that integrate P s a tools professional service is automation are mm tools tools for managing cloud tools for managing SAS applications. For example, one of our partners manages office 3 65 accounts. And if you put yourselves in the shoes of a system administrator who's managing multiple SAS applications now, they can all be managed in the Cronus platform. Leverage our user experience. You I s t k and have a seamless experience for that administrator to manage everything to have the same group policies across all of this >>depression. That success with these channel a channel on Channel General, but I s freeze and managed service ROMs. Peace. What's the dynamic between Iess, freeze and peace? You unpack that? >>Sure. So a lot of m s peace depend on certain solutions. One of our partners is Connectwise Connectwise here they're exhibiting one sponsors at at this show and their leader in providing managed to lose management solutions for M s. He's to manage all of their customers, right? And then all the end points. >>So if I participate in the developer network, is that where I get my the FBI's someone get the access to these AP eyes? >>So you visits developer data cronies dot com. You come in, you gain access to all the AP eyes. Documentation way Have libraries that'll be supporting six languages, including C sharp Python, java. Come in, gain access to those documentation and start building. There's a sandbox where they could test their code. There's SD K's. There's examples that are pre built and documentation and guides on how to use those s >>So customer the end. You're in customers or your channel customers customer. Do they get the benefits of the highest stuff in there? So in other words, that was the developer network have a marketplace where speed push their their solutions in there. >>Also launching. Today we have the Cronus Cyber Cloud Solutions portal and inside there there's already 30 integrations that we worked over the years to build using that same set of AP eyes and SD case. >>Okay, so just get this hard news straight. Opening up the AP eyes. That's right. Cronus Developer Network launched today and Cloud Solutions Portal. >>That's right, Cyber Cloud Solutions Portal Inside there there's documentation on all the different solutions that are available today. >>What's been the feedback so far? Those >>It's been great. You know, if we think about all the solutions that we've already integrated, we have hundreds of manage service providers using just one solution that we've already integrated. >>William, we're talking before we came on camera about the old days in this business for a long time just a cube. We've been documenting the i t transformation with clouds in 10 years. I've been in this in 30 years. Ways have come and gone and we talked to see cells all the time now and number one constant pattern that emerges is they don't want another tour. They want a solid date looking for Jules. Don't get me wrong, the exact work fit. But they're looking for a cohesive platform, one that's horizontally scaled that enables them to either take advantage of a suite of service. Is boy a few? That's right. This is a trend. Do you agree with that? What you're saying? I totally agree >>with that, right? It makes it much easier to deal with provisioning, user management and billing, right? Think about a man of service provider and all of their customers. They need that one tool makes their lives so much easier. >>And, of course, on event would not be the same. We didn't have some sort of machine learning involved. How much his machine learning been focused for you guys and what's been some of the the innovations that come from from the machine. I mean, you guys have done >>artificial intelligence is critical today, right? It's, uh, how we're able to offer some really top rated ransomware protection anti malware protection. We could not do that without artificial intelligence. >>Final question for you. What's the top story shows week If you have to kind of boil it down high order bit for the folks that couldn't make it. Watching the show. What's the top story they should pay attention to? >>Top story is that Cronus is leading the effort in cyber protection. And it's a revolution, right? We're taking data protection with cyber security to create cyber protection. Bring that all together. Really? Democratize is a lot of enterprise. I t. And makes it accessible to a wider market. >>You know, we've always said on the Q. Go back and look at the tapes. It's a date. A problem that's right. Needed protection. Cyber protection. Working him, >>Cronus. Everything we do is about data. We protect data from loss. We protect data from theft and we protect data from manipulation. It's so critical >>how many customers you guys have you? I saw some stats out there. Founded in 2003 in Singapore. Second headquarters Whistle in 2000 a global company, 1400 employees of 32 offices. Nice nice origination story. They're not a Johnny come lately has been around for a while. What's the number? >>So five million? Any customers? 500,000 business customers. 50,000 channel partners. >>Congratulations. Thanks. Thanks for having us here in Miami Beach. Thanks. Not a bad venue. As I said on Twitter just a minute ago place. Thanks for Thanks. All right, John. Just a cube coverage here. Miami Beach at the front in Blue Hotel for the Cyber Global Cyber Security Summit here with Cronus on John Kerry back with more coverage after this short break.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back and run cubes. Live coverage of A W S Amazon Webster's reinforced their inaugural conference around security here in Boston. Messages. I'm John for a day. Volante Day we've been talking about Blockchain has been part of security, but no mention of it here. Amazon announced a Blockchain intention, but was more of a service model. Less of a pure play infrastructure or kind of a new game changes. So we thought we would get our friends to come on, the Cuban tell. Tell us about it. Val Birch, Avicii CEO and founder. A pencil day that Cube alumni formerly of NetApp, among other great companies, and Ed You, founder and CEO of Strong Salt. Welcome to the Q. Tell us why aren't we taught him a Blockchain at a security conference on cloud computing, where they always resource is different. Paradigm is decentralized. What's your take? >> So maybe having been in this world for about 18 24 months now, Enterprise lodging reinvents about six months ago and jazz he mentioned that he finally understood US enterprise an opportunity, and it was the integrity value, finest complex, even announced a specific product announced database available, >> maybe bythe on cryptographic verifiability of transactions minus the complexity of smart contract wallets. Wait, you party with Amazon way too. Versions right? One for distributed use cases. When I call, everyone rises. Never like you need to know what >> the Amazon wants to be that hard on top like complexity. But the reality is, they're they're They're world is targeting a new generation star 14 show is the new generation of developing >> a >> new generation of David. They were. Some of those are in trouble, and I'm hard core on this because it's just so obvious. >> I just can't get him behind myself if you don't >> see this out quicker. The new developers are younger and older systems people. There's a range of ages doing it. They're they're seeing the agility, and it's a cultural shift, not just the age thing. Head this. They're not here right now. This is the missing picture of this show, and my criticism of reinforces big, gaping hole around crypto and blocks, >> and I actually know that people I don't see anything here because it is difficult to currency. >> Blocking is very important that people understand way. Launch strong allows you to see the launching. I don't think that works. Basically, Just like Well, well said everything you do, you always have a single source. I think that's something that people doing this thing here. You want to get your thoughts on this because you made a comment >> about security native being the team here and security native implying that Dev ops what they did for configuration hardening the infrastructures code. You have to consider this token economic business model side of it with the apple cases, a decision application is still an application. Okay. Blockchain is still in infrastructure dynamic their software involved. I mean, we're talking about the same thing is they're lost in translation. In your opinion? >> Well, yeah, I think that you know, to your point, Val, if you can abstract that complexity away, But the fundamentals of of cryptography and software engineering and game theory coming together is what always has fascinated me about this space. And so you're right. I think certainly enterprise customers don't wanna you know, they hear crypto, though no, although it's interesting it was just a conference IBM yesterday. They talk a lot about Blockchain. Don't talk about crypto to me. They go together. Of course, IBM. They don't like to talk a lot about job loss and automation, but But the reality is it's there and it's it's it's has a lot of momentum, which is why you started the company. >> Yeah, we're actually seeing it all over right now. And again, our thing is around reducing, If not eliminating the friction towards adopting Blockchain so less is more. In our case, we're explicitly choosing not to do crypto wallets or currency transactions. It's that Andy Jassy observation the integrity value, the core integrity, value for financial reconciliation, for detecting supply chain counterfeiting for tracking assets and inventory across to your distribution. Unifying multiple source systems of record into a shared state. Those are the kinds of applications received >> culture, and there's so many different use cases, obviously, so >> an Amazon likes to use that word. Words raised the bar, which is more functionality, but on the other, phrases undifferentiated, heavy lifting. There's a lot of details involved in some of those complexity exactly what you're talking about that can be automated away. That's goodness. But you still have a security problem of mutability, which is a beautiful thing with Blockchain. >> Actually, a lot of times people actually forgot to mention one thing that blotchy and all you do that's actually different before was Actually privacy is actually not just security is also privacy, which actually is getting bigger and bigger. As we know, it's something that people feel very strongly about because it's something they feel personal about. And that's something that, in fact, took economics encourages a lot of things that enables privacy that was not able to do before. >> Well, look at Facebook. What do you think about >> face? I'm wonder that you know, I'm a public face book critic. I think they've been atrocious job on the privacy front so far in protecting our data. On the other hand, if you know it's kind of like the mullahs report, if you actually read Facebook's white paper, it's a it's not a launch. It's an announcement. That's a technical announcement. It's so well written, designed so far, and it's Facebook doesn't completely control it. They do have a vision for program ability. They're evolving it from being a permissions toe, ultimately a permission less system. So on paper, I like what I read. And I think it will start to, you know, popularizing democratize the notion of crypto amongst the broader population. I'm going to take a much more weight see approach. Just you know, >> I always love Facebook. I think the den atrocious job. But I'm addicted. I have all my stuff on there, um, centralized. They're bringing up, they bring in an education. Bitcoin is up for a reason. They're bringing the masses. They're showing that this is real market. This is kind of like when the web was still viewed as Kitty Playground for technologists say, Oh, well, it's so slow. And that was for dummies. And you had the Web World Wide Web. So when that hit, that same arguments went down right this minute, crypto things for years. But with Facebook coming, it really legitimizes that well, you bring 2,000,000,000 people to the party. Exactly a lot of good. Now the critics of Facebook is copied pass craft kind of model and there's no way they're gonna get it through because the world's not gonna let Facebook running run commerce and currents. It's like it's like and they don't do it well anyway. So I think it's gonna be a game changing market making move. I think they'll have a play in there, but I don't think that's not gonna have a global force. Says a >> lot that you get 100 companies to put up 10 >> 1,000,000 Starship is already the first accomplice. >> They don't need any more money. We have my dear to us, but >> still the power but the power of that ecosystem to me. I was a big fan of this because I think it gives credibility. So many companies get get interested in it, and I'm not sure exactly what's gonna come out of it. It's interesting that, you know, Bitcoins up. They said, Oh, cell, you're becoming like No, no, no, this is This is a very mature >> Well, I I think open is gonna always win. If you look at you know, the Web's kind of one example of kind of maturity argument. I think the rial analog for me, at least my generation value probably relate to this. David, you as well, you know, I've been born yet you are But, you know, T c p I p came after S n a which IBM on the deck net was the largest network at that time to >> not serious. Says >> mammal. Novell was land all three proprietary network operating systems. So proprietary Narcisse decimated by T c p i p. So to me, I think even their Facebook does go in there. They will recognize that unless they stay open, I think open will always win. I think I think this is the beginning of the death of the closed platform. >> Yeah, they're forced her. I think they have to open it up because if you didn't open up, people won't trust them, and people will use them. And if a Blockchain if you don't have a community behind it, there will be nothing. >> Well, so the thing about the crypto spraying everywhere with crypto winter, But but to your point d c p i p h t t p d >> N s SMTP >> Those were government funded or academic funded protocols. People stop spending money on him, and then the big Internet companies just co opted. No, no, that's what G mails built on. >> Well, I've always said >> so But when you finish the thought, is all this crypto money that came in drove innovation? Yeah, So you're seeing, you know, this new Internet emerge, and I think it's it's really think people, you know, sort of overlooked a lot of the innovation that's >> coming. I have always said, Dave, that Facebook is what the Web would look like if Tim Berners Lee took venture financing. Okay, because what they had at the time was a browser and the way that stand up websites for self service information. They kept it open and it drives. Facebook became basically the Web's version of a, well, lengthen does the same Twitter has opened. They have no developer community. So yeah, I think it is the only company in my opinion, actually does a good job opening up their data. Now they charge you for that. It brings up way still haven't encrypt those. The only community that's entire ethos is based on openness and community you mentioned. And that is a key word >> in traditional media. Of course, focus on the bad stuff that happens, but you know those of us in the business who will pay attention to it, see There's a lot of goodness to is a lot of mission driven, a lot of openness, and it's a model for innovation. What do you guys think about the narrative now to break up big tech? You know you're hearing Facebook, Amazon, Google coming under fire. What are your thoughts on that? >> So I wrote a block, maybe was ahead of its time about 18 months ago. Is coincided with Ginny Rometty, a Davos and 2018 2019 talking about data responsibility. Reason we're having this conversation is at the tech industry. By and large and especially the fang stocks or whatever we're calling them now have been irresponsible with our data. The backlash is palpable in Europe. It's law in Europe. Backlash we knew was going to start at the state level here. There's already ahead of my personal schedule. Federal discussions, FTC DOJ is in a couple weeks ago, so it's inevitable that this sort of tech reckoning is coming in. Maur responsibility is gonna have to be demonstrated by all the custodians of our data, and that's why we're positioning. Check it as a chain of custody is a service to demonstrate to the regulators your customers, your partners, suppliers, you know, transparency, irrefutable transparency, using Blockchain for how you're handling data. You know, if you don't have that, transparency can prove it. Or back to the same old discussions were back Thio Uninformed old legislators making you know Internet, his tubes type regulations. So here, here >> and DOJ, you could argue that they may be too slow to respond to Microsoft back in the nineties. I'm not sure breaking up big tech is the right thing, because I think it's almost like a t. The little Tex will become big checks again, but they should not be breaking the law. >> I think there's a reason why is there's actually a limitation off. What is possible in technology because they understand and also Facebook understands well, is that it's actually very, very hard to have data that's owned by your customers. But you are the one who's keeping track over everything, and you are the one using the data right. It's like a no win, because if you think about encryption cryptography, yes, you can make the data encrypted. That way, the customer has the key. They control it, but then Facebook can offer the service is. So now you have a Congress thinking, Well, if there's no technological way of doing this, what can you do in a legal perspective on a, you know, on the law perspective, toddy make it so that the customer actually owned the data. We actually think that is a perfect reason why you have to actually fix the book. Actually, technical should be built on our platform because we actually allow them to have a day that's encrypted and stupid able to operations holiday tha if the customer give them the permission to do so. And I think that's the perfect word way to go forward. And I think Blockchain is the fundamental thing that brings everybody together, you know, way that actually benefits everyone knows >> and take him into explain strong salt your project. What's it about? What's the mission? Where you >> so so we see strong saw as actually privacy. First, we literally are beauty, a platform where developers including Facebook linked and salesforce can't you build on top of platform, right? So what happens when you do this is that they actually give the data governess to the customers, customers Mashona data. But because our cryptography they actually can offer service is to the customers. When a customer allowed them to do so, for example, we have something. All search of encryption allows you to encrypt the data and still give the search. Aubrey on the data without decrypting the data. First, by giving the power to developers and also the community there, you can have our abstract you currently use. But they're not hard to use that frictionless and still offer the same service that Frank Facebook or sell stolen offer the favor. >> You could do some discovery on it. >> You can't do things >> some program ability around >> exactly, even though the data is encrypted. But custom owns the day. So the customer has to give them permission to do so Right this way. Actually, in fact, launched the first app that I told you it's called strong vote. You can Donald ios or Andrew it And you can't you see the Blockchain play little You can see the rocking your fingerprint. I think a fingertip to see what happens to a data. You see everything that happens when Sheriff I or you open a fire or something, I guess. >> Congratulations, Val. Give a quick plug for your project chain kid into the new branding. They're like it. Pencil data. Where are you on your project? >> So after nine months of hard selling, we're finding out what customers actually paying for right now. In our case, it's hardening their APS, their data and their logs and wrapping the chain of custody around those things. And the use case of the security conference like this is actually quite existential When you think about it, One of the things that the industry doesn't talk enough about is that every attack we read about in the headlines was three privilege escalation. So the attackers somehow hacked. Your Web server managed to get administrative credentials and network or domain administrative credentials. And here's what professional attackers do once they have godlike authority on your network. They identify all the installed security solutions, and they make themselves invisible because they can. After that, they operate with impunity. Our technology, the security use case that we're seeing a lot of traction is, is we can detect that we're applying Blockchain. We're agnostic, so bring your own Blockchain in our case. But we're able >> chain kit a product. Is it a development environment >> globally. Available service Jose on AWS rest ful AP eyes and fundamentally were enabling developers to harden their app stuff to wrap a chain of custody around key data or logs in their laps so that when the attacker's attempt a leverage at administrative authority and tamper with locks tamper >> with service, not a software, >> it's a apply. It's a developer oriented service, but >> this is one of the biggest problems and challenges security today. You see the stat after you get infiltrated. It takes 250 or 300 days to even detect, and I have not heard that number shrink. I've heard people aspire number streaking this. >> We can get it down to realize a crime tip of the spear. That's what we're excited to be here. We're excited to talk about One of the dirty secrets of the security industry is that it shouldn't take a year to detect in advance attack. >> Guys, Thanks for coming on. Cuban sharing your insight. Concussions in your head. Well, great to see you. >> Likewise. And thank you, j for having us on here, and we're looking forward to coming back and weigh. Appreciate. Absolutely >> thankful. Spj Thanks for you. >> It was always paying it forward. Of course, really the most important conversation, that security is gonna be a Blockchain type of implementation. This is a reality that's coming very soon, but we're here. They do is reinforce. I'm talking about the first conference with Amazon Web sources dedicated to sightsee. So's Cee Io's around security jumper. Develop the stables for more coverage. After this short break, >> my name is David.

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo Live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem. Barker's >> Welcome Back. The Cuba's Live at Cisco Live, San Diego, California That's your sunny San Diego. I'm Lisa Martin and my co hostess day Volante. Dave and I are gonna be talking about Baraki with Tony Carmichael, product manager A P I and developer platforms from San Francisco Muraki Tony, welcome. >> Yeah, Thank you. I'm super happy to be here. >> So you were in this really cool Muraki T shirt. I got that work and get one of those. >> We can get one >> for you for sure. Right. This is Muraki. Take over. Our here in the definite zone. This definite zone has been jam packed yesterday. All day Today, people are excited talking a little bit about what Muraki is. And let's talk about what the takeover isn't. What people are having the chance to learn right now. >> Sure. Yes. Oma Rocky, founded in two thousand six. I can't believe it's been over 10 years now. Way really started with the mission of simplifying technology, simplifying it, making it easy to manage and doing so through a cloud managed network. So that's really what Muraki was founded. And then, in 2012 Iraqi was acquired by Cisco. So we continue to grow, you know, triple digit, double digit growth every single year on, we've expanded the portfolio. Now we've got wireless way. Actually, just announced WiFi six capabilities. We got switching. We've got security appliances, we've got video cameras and then on top of all of that, we've got a platform to manage it so you can go in. And if you're in it, it's all about. Is it connected? Is it online? And if there's a problem solving it quickly, right And so that's why we're really here, a deb net and doing the take over because we're seeing this transition in the industry where you know, really is more about being able to just get the job done and work smart, not hard on. And a lot of times AP eyes and having a really simple a platform to do that is paramount, right? So that's what we're talking about here and the takeover. Just answer. The other question is on our here, where we just basically everything is Muraki, right? So we're doing training sessions were doing labs reading education and some fun, too. So reading social media and we've got beers. If you want to come up and have a beer with us as well, >> all right, hit the definite is on for that. >> So how does how does WiFi six effect, for example, what you guys are doing it. Muraki. >> Yeah, so that's a That's a really great question. So WiFi six means, you know, faster and more reliable, right? That is fundamentally what it's all about now. WiFi over the years has very quickly transitioned from, like, nice tohave. Teo, You know, you and I check into our hotel, and within seconds we want to be online talking to our family, right? So it's no longer best efforts must have, whether it's in a hospital, hotel or in office environment. WiFi six ads. You know a lot of new features and functionality, and this is true from Rocky for Cisco at large, and it's all about speed and reliability right now on the developer side. And this is a lot of what we're talking about here. A definite it also opens up completely new potential opportunities for developers. So if you think about, You know, when you go to a concert, for example, and you see a crowd of 30,000 people and they're doing things like lighting up lanyards the plumbing, right? The stuff making that tic is you know, it has to work at scale with 30,000 people or more, and that's all being delivered through WiFi technology. So it opens up not just the potential for us, maybe as as concertgoers, but for the developer being able to do really, really cool things for tech in real time. >> So you talked about a simplification, was kind of a mission of the company when it started, and it had some serious chops behind it. I think Sequoia Google was involved as well, right? So, anyway, were you able to our how have you affected complexity of security ableto Dr Simplification into that part of the stack? >> So that's a fantastic question. If you think about you know, this shift towards a cloud connected world not just for Muraki, but for for all devices, right, consumer ipads, iPhones and writhe thing that opens up from a security standpoint is that you have the ability from a zero day right, so you had a zero day vulnerability. You know, it gets reported to the vendor within seconds or minutes. You could roll out, uh, patch to that. Right, That is that is a very new kind of thing, right? And with Muraki, we've had a variety of vulnerabilities. We also work with the Talis T Mat Sisko who are, you know, they've got over 10 or 50 researchers worldwide that are finding these vulnerabilities proactively and again within, you know, certainly within a 24 hour period, because we've got that connectivity toe every single device around the globe. Customers now Khun rely on depend on us to get that patch out sometimes while they sleep right, which is really like it sounds nice. And it sounds great from a marketing standpoint, but it's really all right. We have retailers that, you know, they're running their business on this technology. They have to remain compliant. And any vulnerability like that, you've got to get it fixed right before it becomes a newsworthy, for example. >> So as networks have dramatically transformed changed as a cisco and the last you know, you can't name the number of years time we look at the demands of the network, the amount of data they mount. A video data being projected, you know, like 80% plus of data in 80 2022 is going to be video data. So in that construct of customers in any industry need to be able to get data from point A to point B across. You know, the proliferation of coyote devices edge core. How can Muraki be a facilitator of that network automation that's critical for businesses to do in order to be competitive? >> Yeah, so it's a fantastic question. I think it's something that's at the heart of what every I T operation is thinking about, right? You hear about, you know, digitization. What does that mean? It means supporting the business and whatever things, whatever they're trying to do. And a lot of times nowadays, it is video. It's being able to connect in real time with a team that's maybe working across the globe now to get right to your question. There's two things that that Muraki is delivering on that really enables it teams right to deliver on that promise or that really it's more an expectation, right? The first you know, we've got a serious of technologies, including rst one product. That a lot for you to really get the most efficient, effective use out of your win connectivity, right? So being able to bring in broadband, bringing whatever circuits you can get ahold of and then do you know application delivery that is just reliable in dependable Catskill? Thie. Other aspect to this is giving data and insights to the teams that are responsible, reliable for that delivery. And this is where ap isa Really, Really. You know, it's really at the heart of all of this because if you're operating more than, say, 50 sites, right, there's lots of beautiful ways that we can visualize this right, and we can, you know, add reports that give you top 10. But the thing is, depending on your business, depending on your industry, different things they're gonna matter. So this is where Iraqi is investing in an open platform and making it super easy to run system wide reports and queries on you know which sites were slow, which sites were fast, prioritizing the ones that really needs some love right? And giving data back to the teams that have those Big Harry questions that need to get answered. Whether it's you know, you're C suite that saying Are we out of the way or just a really proactive team? That's just trying to make sure that the employees experiences good. >> What about some of the cool tools you guys are doing? Like talking about them Iraqi camera? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, so the other thing I was thinking of when you asked about this was, you know, video as a delivery medium. Of course it's necessary when you're doing, you know, video conference saying and things like that. But when we look at, say, the Muraki M V, which is really our latest product innovation, it's really us kind of taking the architecture of, ah, typical videos, surveillance system and flipping on its head, making it really easy to deploy Really simple, no matter where in the world you are to connect and see that video footage right? The other thing we're learning, though, is that why do people watch video surveillance? Either You're responding to an incident, right? So someone tripped and fell. There was an incident. Someone stole someone or someone sold something, or you're just trying to understand behavioral patterns. So when it comes to video, it's not always about the raw footage. It's really about extracting what we often call like metadata, right? So them rocky envy Some of the really cool innovations happening on that product right now are giving customers the end state visualization. Whether that's show me all the people in real time in the in the frame, give me a count of how many people visited this frame in the last hour. Right? So imagine we have cameras all over. We want to know what those what those trends and peaks and valleys look like rate. That's actually what we're after. No one wants to sit there looking at a screen counting people s. So this is where we're starting to see this total shift in how video can be analyzed and used for business purposes >> are able to detect anomalies. You're basically using analytics. Okay. Show me when something changes. >> That's right. Right. And we've seen some incredibly cool things being built with our FBI. So we've got a cinema, a really large customer, cinemas all over. And they're doing these immersive experiences where they're using the cameras. A sensor on DH. There saying, OK, when there's more than a handful of people. So we've got kind of a crowding within the communal spaces of the cinema Changed the digital sign Ege, right? Make it a really immersive experience. Now, they didn't buy the cameras for that. They bought the cameras for security, right? But why not? Also, then two birds, one stone, right? Use that investment and use it as a data sensor. Feed that in and make it completely new experience for people in the environment. >> Well, I couldn't so I can see the use case to excuse me for for, like, security a large venue. Oh, yeah. Big time >> infected. Thank you de mode along that front >> easy. And Mandy >> dio definite create where there wasa like a stalker. Yeah, where there was, like, a soccer match. And they're showing this footage and asking everyone What did you see happen? You know, a few seconds and actually what they did was using Iraqi. They were able to zero in on a fight that was breaking out, alert the then use security team and dispatch them within a very short period of time. >> Yeah, and we've seen like there's amazing there's tons of use cases. But that's a great example where you've got large crowds really dynamic environment, and you're not again. You don't want to necessarily have to have folks just looking at that feed waiting for something to happen. You want an intelligence system that can tell you when something happens? Right? So we've seen a ton of really cool use cases being built on. We're gonna continue to invest in those open AP eyes so that our customer, you know, we can move at the speed of our customers, right? Because I'm a rocky like, ultimately, our mission is like, simple i t. There's different layers of simple, Like what matters to a customer is like getting what they need to get done. Done. Um, we want way. Want to really be ableto enable them to innovate quickly. Ap eyes really are the center of that. >> Yeah, and so talk a little bit more about your relationship with definite how you fit in to that on the symbiotic. You know, nature. Yeah, Iraqi and definite. >> I would love to. So we've been working with with Suzie and the and the definite team now for really, since the start of definite, and I think it's brilliant, right? Because Sisko were, of course, like from a networking standpoint, we're always at the forefront. But what we started to see early on and I certainly wasn't the visionary here was this transition from, you know, just just like your core. Quintessential networking tio starting toe like Bring together Your network stack with the ability is also right and rapidly developed applications. So that was kind of the, you know, the precipice of Like Bringing Together and founding Dev. Net. And we've been with definite sense, which which, you know, it's been exciting. It's also really influence where our direction right? Because it's a lot for us to see what our customers trying to dio, How are they trying to do it? And how can we, from the product side, enable that three FBI's but then work with Dev Net to actually bring, you know, bring That's a life. So we've got, you know, developer evangelists working with customers. We've got solution architects, working with customers, building incredibly cool things and then putting it back out into the open source community, building that community. I mean, that is really where we've had in a maze. Amazing relationship with definite rate that that has been huge. Like we've seen our adoption and usage just absolutely shoot through the roof. We're at 45,000,000 requests per day on DH. Straight up, like could have been done without >> having that visions. Amazing. We have Susie on in a minute. But I mean, I >> Why do you think >> other sort of traditional companies, you know in the computer business haven't created something similar? I mean, seems like Cisco has figured out Debs and traditional hardware companies haven't so >> It's a really good question, like at the end of the day, it's an investment, right? Like I think a lot of companies like they tend to be quite tactical. Um, and look at okay, like maybe here we are now and here's where we're going. But it's an investment, and customers really say OK, this is the thing that they're trying accomplish, and we're not going to keep it closed and closed source and try to develop intellectual property. We're going to enable and empower on ecosystem to do that. Now I think like you're quickly starting to see this trend, right? Like certainly I wouldn't say that Muraki or Cisco are the only ones that are doing this, which is this, you know, cultivation of technology partners that are building turnkey solutions for customers. You know, cultivation of customers and enabling them to be able to build. And you create things that perhaps Cisco might not even ever think about. But But that is a shift in mentality, I think right, and I think like we're starting to see this more in the industry. But I am proud to say that like we were right on that bleeding edge and now we're able to ride that wave. Iraqis also had the luxury of being cloud native for a cloud board. It's our technology has always been, you know, at a place where if we want to deploy or create a new a p i n point that provides new data like literally, the team behind me can take that from prototype to production to test it into a customer within weeks on. And that is in many cases, what we're doing. >> It seems to me looking kind of alluding to Dave's point from a Cisco overall perspective, a company that has been doing customer partner events for 30 years. What started this networker? We now notices go live a large organization. Large organizations are not historically known for pivoting quickly or necessarily being developer friendly to this. Seems to me what definite has generated in just five short years seems to be a competitive differentiator that Cisco should be leveraging because it's it's truly developer family. >> I could not agree more. I mean the and this goes right to the core of what, uh What I think has made us so successful, Which is this, you know, this idea that at the heart of everything we do, we have to think about not just the customer experience right, which is like, What does it look like toe by what does look like toe unbox? What does it look like to install and what his day to look like? But also, and very importantly, distinct track around thinking about developer experience, developer experience like when your first building AP eyes and things like it's easy to say. OK, this is what they need. This is what they want. But Cisco, and really definite more than anything, has gotten to the heart of way have to think about the way these AP eyes look, the way they shape of their responses, the data they contain, the ease of use, the scale at which they operate and how easy it is to actually build on that. Right? So that's where you're going to start seeing more and more of our kind of S, T K's and libraries and just a lot of like we just this week launched the automation exchange that is again right at the center of We're listening. And we're not just listening to the customers who are trying to deploy 4,000 sites in a in a month or two. Um, we're also listening to the developers and what the challenge is that they're facing, right? Um, I'd love to see more of this. I mean, we're seeing a huge amount of adoption across Cisco. Um, and I think that there's other you know, there's plenty about their tech companies, you know that are that are really, I think, just helping push this forward right. Adding momentum to it. >> Speaking of momentum in the Iraqi momentum's going that way. I >> mean, it's good. Yeah, I would agree with you. >> Well, Tony, it's been a pleasure having you on the program. Absolutely. Success. Were excited to talk to Susie next. And it's like this unlimited possibilities zone here. Thank you so much for your time. >> Absolutely thanks so much Happy to be here. >> Alright for David Dante, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live from Cisco Live San Diego. Thanks for watching.

(light techno music) >> Narrator: From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host, Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to theCUBE conversation here in our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome back to the program, Paul Barth, who's the CEO of Podium Data, also a Boston area company. Paul, great to see you. >> Great to see you, Stu. >> Alright, so we last caught up with you, it was a fun event that we do at MIT talking about information, data quality, kind of understand why your company would be there. For our audience that doesn't know, just give us a quick summary, your background, what was kind of the why of Podium Data back when it was founded in 2014. >> Oh that's great Stu, thank you. I've spent most of my career in helping large companies with their data and analytic strategies, next generation architectures, new technologies, et cetera, and in doing this work, we kept stumbling across the complexity of adopting new technologies. And around the time that big data and Hadoop was getting popular and lots of hype in the marketplace, we realized that traditional large businesses couldn't manage data on this because the technology was so new and different. So we decided to form a software company that would automate a lot of the processing, manage a catalog of the data, and make it easy for nontechnical users to access their data. >> Yeah, that's great. You know when I think back to when we were trying to help people understand this whole big data wave, one of the pithy things we did, it was turning all this glut of data from a problem to an opportunity, how do we put this in to the users. But a lot of things kind of, we hit bumps in the road as an industry. Did studies it was more than 50 percent of these projects fail. You brought up a great point, tooling is tough, changing processes is really challenging. But that focus on data is core to our research, what we talk about all the time. But now it's automation and AIML, choose your favorite acronym of the day. This is going to solve all the ills that the big data wave didn't do right. Right, Paul? So maybe you can help us connect the dots a little bit because I hear a lot in to the foundation that trend from the big data to kind of the automation and AI thing. So you're maybe just a little ahead of your time. >> Well thanks, I saw an opportunity before there was anything in the marketplace that could help companies really corral their data, get some of the benefits of consolidation, some oversight in management through an automated catalog and the like. As AI has started to emerge as the next hype wave, what we're seeing consistently from our partners like Data Robot and others who have great AI technology is they're starved for good information. You can't learn automatically or even human learning if you're given inconsistent information, data that's not conformed or ready or consistent, which you can look at a lot of different events and start to build correlations. So we believe that we're still a central part of large companies building out their analytics infrastructure. >> Okay, help us kind of look at how your users and how you fit into this changing ecosystem. We all know things are just changing so fast. From 2014 to today, Cloud is so much bigger, the big waves of IoT keep talking. Everybody's got some kind of machine learning initiative. So what're the customers looking for, how do you fit in some of those different environments? >> I think when we formed the company we recognized that the cost performance differential between the open-sourced data management platforms like Hadoop and now Spark, were so dramatically better than the traditional databases and data warehouses, that we could transform the business process of how do you get data from Rotaready. And that's a consistent problem for large companies they have data in legacy formats, on mainframes, they have them in relational databases, they have them in flat files, in the Cloud, behind the firewall, and these silos continue to grow. This view of a consistent, or consistent view of your business, your customers, your processes, your operations, is cental to optimizing and automating the business today. So our business users are looking for a couple of things. One thing they are looking for is some manageability and a consistent view of their data no matter where it lives, and our catalog can create that automatically in days or weeks depending on how how big we go or how broadly we go. They're looking for that visibility but also they're looking for productivity enhancements, which means that they can start leveraging that data without a big IT project. And finally they're looking for agility which means there's self-service, there's an ability to access data that you know is trusted and secured and safe for the end users to use without having to call IT and have a program spin something up. So they're really looking for a totally new paradigm of data delivery. >> I tell you that hits on so many things that we've been seeing and a challenge that we've seen in the marketplace. In my world, talk about people they had their data centers and if I look at my data and I look at my applications, it's this heterogeneous nightmare. We call it hybrid or multi cloud these days, and it shows the promise of making me faster and all this stuff. But as you said, my data is all over the place, my applications are getting spun up and maybe I'm moving them and federating things and all that. But, my data is one of the most critical components of my business. Maybe explain a little bit how that works. Where do the customers come in and say oh my gosh, I've got a challenge and Podium Data's helping and the marketplace and all that. >> Sure, first of all we targeted from the start large regulated businesses, financial services, pharmaceutical healthcare, and we've broadened since then. But these companies' data issues were really pressure from both ends. One was a compliance pressure. They needed to develop regulatory reports that could be audited and proven correct. If your data is in many silos and it's compiled manually using spreadsheets, that's not only incredibly expensive and nonreproducible, it's really not auditable. So a lot of these folks were pressured to prove that the data they were reporting was accurate. On the other side, it's the opportunity cost. Fintech companies are coming into their space offering loans and financial products, without any human interaction, without any branches. They knew that data was the center to that. The only way you can make an offer to someone for financial product is if you know enough about them that you understand the risk. So the use and leverage of data was a very critical mass. There was good money to invest in it and they also saw that the old ways of doing this just weren't working. >> Paul, does your company help with the incoming GDPR challenges that are being faced? >> Sure, last year we introduced a PII detector and protection scheme. That may not sound like such a big deal but in the Hadoop open-source world it is. At the end of the day this technology while cheap and powerful is incredibly immature. So when you land data, for example, into these open data platforms like S3 out in the Cloud, Podium takes the time to analyze that data and tell you what the structures of the data are, where you might have issues with sensitive data, and has the tooling like obfuscation and encryption to protect the data so you can create safe to use data. I'd say our customers right now, they started out behind the firewall. Again, these regulated businesses were very nervous about breaches. They're looking and realizing they need to get to the Cloud 'cause frankly not only is it a better platform for them from a cost basis and scalability, it's actually where the data comes from these days, their data suppliers are in the Cloud. So we're helping them catalog their data and identify the sensitive data and prepare data sets to move to the Cloud and then migrate it to the Cloud and manage it there. >> Such a critical piece. I lived in the storage world for about a decade. There was a little acquisition that they made of a company called Pi, P-I. It was Paul Maritz who a lot of people know, Paul had a great career at Microsoft went on to run VMware for a bunch. But it was, the vision you talk about reminds me of what I heard Paul Maritz talking to. Gosh, that was a decade ago. Information, so much sensitivity. Expand a little bit on the security aspect there, when I looked through your website, you're not a security company per se, but are there partnerships? How do you help customers with I want to leverage data but I need to be secure, all the GRC and security things that's super challenging. >> At this space to achieve agility and scale on a new technology, you have to be enterprise ready. So in version one of our product, we had security features that included field level encryption and protection, but also integration with LDAB and Kerberos and other enterprise standard mechanisms and systems that would protect data. We can interoperate with Protegrity's and other kinds of encryption and protection algorithms with our open architecture. But it's kind of table stakes to get your data in a secured, monitorable infrastructure if you're going to enable this agility and self-service. Otherwise you restrict the use of the new data technologies to sandboxes. The failures you hear about are not in the sandboxes in the exploration, they're in getting those to production. I had one of my customers talk about how before Podium they had 50 different projects on Hadoop and all of them were in code red and none of them could go to production. >> Paul you mentioned catalogs, give us the update. What's the newest from Podium Data? Help explain that a little bit more. >> So we believe that the catalog has to help operationalize the data delivery process. So one of the things we did from the very start was say let's use the analytical power of big data technologies, Spark, Hadoop, and others, to analyze the data on it's way in to the platform and build a metadata catalog out of that. So we have over 100 profiling statistics that we automatically calculate and maintain for every field of every file we ever load. It's not something you do as an afterthought or selectively. We knew from our experience that we needed to do that, data validation, and then bring in inferences such as this field looks like PII data and tag that in the metadata. That process of taking in data and this even applies to legacy mainframe data coming in a VSAM format. It gets converted and landed to a usable format automatically. But the most important part is the catalog gets enriched with all this statistical profiling information, validation, all of the technical information and we interoperate as well as have a GUI to help with business tagging, business definitions in the light. >> Paul, just a little bit of a broader industry question, we talked a value of data I think everybody understands how important is it. How are we doing in understanding the value of that data though, is that a monetization thing? You've got academia in your background, there's debates, we've talked to some people at MIT about this. How do you look at data value as an industry in general, is there anything from Podium Data that you help people identify, are we leveraging it, are we doing the most, what are your thoughts around that? >> So I'd say someone who's looking for a good framework to think about this I'd recommend Doug Laney's book on infonomics, we've collaborated for a while, he's doing a great job there. But there's also just a blocking and tackling which is what data is getting used or a common one for our customers is where do I have data that's duplicate or it comes from the same source but it's not exactly the same. That often causes reconciliation issues in finance, or in forecasting, in sales analysis. So what we've done with our data catalog with all these profiling statistics is start to build some analytics that identify similar data sets that don't have to be exactly the same to say you may have a version of the data that you're trying to load here already available. Why don't you look at that data set and see if that one is preferred and the data governance community really likes this. For one of our customers there were literally millions of dollars in savings of eliminating duplication but the more important thing is the inconsistency, when people are using similar but not the same data sets. So we're seeing that as a real driver. >> I want to give you the final word. Just what are you seeing out in the industry these days, biggest opportunities, biggest challenges from users you're talking to? >> Well, what I'd say is when we started this it was very difficult for traditional businesses to use Hadoop in production and they needed an army of programmers and I think we solved that. Last year we started on our work to move to a post-Hadoop world so the first thing we've done is open up our cataloging tools so we can catalog any data set in any source and allow the data to be brought into an analytical environment or production environment more on demand then the idea that you're going to build a giant data lake with everything in it and replicate everything. That's become really interesting because you can build the catalog in a few weeks and then actually use the analysis and all the contents to drive the strategy. What do I prioritize, where do I put things? The other big initiative is of course, Cloud. As I mentioned earlier you have to protect and make Cloud ready data behind your firewall and then you have to know where it's used and how it's used externally. We automate a lot of that process and make that transition something that you can manage over time, and that is now going to be extended into multi cloud, multi lake type of technologies. >> Multi cloud, multi lake, alright. Well Paul Barth, I appreciate getting the update everything happening with Podium Data. Well, theCUBE had so many events this year, be sure to check out thecube.net for all the upcoming events and all the existing interviews. I'm Stu Miniman, thanks for watching theCUBE. (light techno music)

>> It's the Cube covering IBM cheap Data Officer Strategy Summit brought to you by IBM. Now, here are your hosts Day villain day and still minimum. >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody. This is the Cube, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. We here at the Chief Data Officers Summit that IBM is hosting in Boston. I'm joined by Courtney Abercrombie. According your your title's too long. I'm just gonna call you a cognitive rockstar on >> Alec Crane is >> here from Yusa. System by President, Vice President at that firm. Welcome to the Cube. Great to see you guys. Thank you. So this event I love it. I mean, we first met at the, uh, the mighty chief data officer conference. You were all over that networking with the CEO's helping him out and just really, I think identified early on the importance of this constituency. Why? How did you sort of realize and where have you taken it? >> It's more important than it's ever been. And we're so grateful every time that we see a new chief data officer coming in because you just can't govern and do data by committee. Um, if you really hope to be transformational in your company. All these huge, different technologies that are out there, All this amazing, rich data like weather data and the ability to leverage, you know, social media information, bringing that all together and really establishing an innovation platform for your company. You can't do that by committee. You really have to have a leader in charge of it. and that’s what chief data officers are here to do. And so every time we see one, we're so grateful >> that just so >> that we just heard from Inderpal Bhandari on his recommendation for how you get started. It was pretty precise and prescriptive. But I wonder, Alan. So tell us about the chief data officer role at USAA. Hasn't been around for a while. Of course, it's a regulated business. So probably Maur, data oriented are cognizant than most businesses. But tell us about your journey. >> We started probably about 4 or 5 years ago, and it was a combination of trying to consolidate data and analytics operations and then decentralized them, and we found that there was advantages and pros and cons of doing both. You'd get the efficiencies, but once you got the efficiencies, you'd lose the business expertise, and then we'd have to tow decentralize. So we ended up landing a couple of years ago. What we call a hub and spoke system where we have centralized governance and management of key data assets, uh, data modelling data science type work. And then we still allow the, uh, various lines of business to have their own data offices. And the one I run for USAA is our distribution channels office for all of the data and analytics. And we take about 100,000,000 phone calls a year. About 2,000,000,000 webb interactions. Mobile interactions. We take about 18,000 hours. That's really roughly two years of phone conversation data in per day. Uh, we take about 50,000,000 lines of, uh, Web analytic traffic per day as well. So trying to make sense of that to nurture remember, relationships, reinforce trust and remove obstacles >> for your supporting the agent systems. Is that right? >> I support the agent systems as well as the, um, digital >> systems. Okay. And so the objective is obviously toe to grow the business, keep it running, keep the customers happy. Very operate, agent Just efficient. Okay. Um and so when you that's really interesting. This sort of hub and spoke of decentralization gets you speed and closer to the business. Centralization get you that that efficiency. Do you feel like you found that right balance? I mean, if you think so. I >> think you know, early on, we it was mme or we had more cerebral alignment, you know, meaning that it seemed logical to us. But actually, once the last couple of years, we've had some growing pains with roles, responsibilities, overlaps, some redundancy, those types of things. But I think we've landed in a good place. And that's that's what I'm pretty proud of because we've been able to balance the agility with the governance necessary toe, have good governance and put in place, but then also be able to move at the speed the businessmen. >> So Courtney, one of things we heard one of the themes this morning within IBM it's of the role of the chief Data officer's office is to really empower the lines of business with data so that you can empower your customers is what Bob Tatiana was telling us, right? With data. So how are you doing? That is you have new services. You have processes or how is that all working >> right? We dio We have a lot of things, actually, because we've been working so much with people like Allen's group who have been leaders at, quite frankly, in establishing best practices on even how to set up these husbands votes. A lot of people are, you know, want to talk, Teo, um, the CDO and they've spun off even a lot of CEOs into other organizations, in fact, but I mean, they're really a leader in this area. So one of the things that we've noticed is you know, the thing that gives everybody the biggest grief is trying to figure out how to work with unstructured data. Um, and all this volume of data, it's just insane. And just like I was saying in the panel earlier, only about 5% of your actual internal data is enough to actually create a context around your customers. You really have to be able to go with all this exogenous data to understand what were the bigger ramifications that were going on in any customer event, whether it's a call in or whether it's, uh, you know, I'm not happy today with something that you tried to sell me or something that you didn't respond too fast enough, which I'm sure Alan could, you know, equate to. But so we have this new data as a service that we've put together based on the way the weather data has, the weather company has put their platform together. We're using a lot of the same kind of like micro services that you saw Bob put on the screen. You know, everything from, I mean, open source. As much open sources we can get, get it. And it's all cloud based. So and it's it's ways to digest and mix up both that internal data with all of that big, voluminous external data. >> So I'm interested in. So you get the organizational part down. Least you've settled on approach. What are some of the other big challenges that you face in terms of analytics and cognitive projects? Your organization? How are you dealing with those? >> Well, uh, >> to take a step back, use a We're, uh, financial services company that supports the military and their families. We now have 12 million members, and we're known for our service. And most of the time, those moments of truth, if you will, where our service really shines has been when someone talks to you, us on the phone when those member service reps are giving that incredible service that they're known for on the reason being is that the MSR is the aggregator of all that data. When you call in, it's all about you. There's two screens full of your information and the MSR is not interested in anything else but just serving you, our digital experiences more transactional in orientation. And it was It's more utilitarian, and we're trying to make it more personal, trying to make it more How do we know about you? And so one of the cues that were that were taking from the MSR community through cognitive learning is we like to say the only way to get into the call is to get into the call, and that is to truly get into the speech to text, Then do the text mining on that to see what are the other topics that are coming out that could surface that we're not actually capturing. And then how do we use those topics at a member level two then help inform the digital experience to make it more personal. How do I detect life events? Our MSR's are actually trained to listen for things like words like fiance, marriage moving, maybe even a baby crying in the background. How do we take that knowledge and turn that into something that machine learning can give us insights that can feedback into our digital transact actions. So >> this's what our group. >> It's a big task. So So how are >> you doing that? I mean, it's obviously we always talk about people processing technology. Yeah, break that down for us. I mean, how are you approaching that massive opportunity? >> Part of it is is, uh, you know, I look at it. It is like a set of those, you know, Russian nesting dolls. You know, every time you solve one problem, there's another problem inside of it. The first problem is getting access to the data. You know, where and where do you store? We're taking in two years of data per day of phone call data into a system where you put all that right and then you're where you put a week's worth a month's worth a quarter's worth of data like that. Then once you solve that problem, how do you read Act all that personal information So that that private information that you really don't need that data exhaust that would actually create a liability for you in our in our world so that you can really stay focused on what of the key themes that the member needs? And then the third thing is now had. Now that you've got access to the data, it's transcribed for you. It's been redacted from its P I I type work well, now you need the horse power and of analysts on, we're exploring partnerships with IBM, both locally and in in the States as well as internationally to look at data science as a service and try to understand How can we tap into this huge volume of data that we've got to explore those types of themes that are coming up The biggest challenges in typical transaction logging systems. You have to know what your logging You have to know what you're looking for before you know what to put the date, where to put the data. And so it's almost like you kind of have to already know that it's there to know how much you're acquiring for it and what we need to do more as we pivot more towards machine learning is that we need the data to tell us what's important to look at. And that's really the vat on the value of working with these folks. >> So obviously, date is increasingly on structure we heard this morning and whatever, 80 90% is structured. So here you're no whatever. You're putting it into whatever data fake swamp, ocean, everything center everywhere, and you're using sort of machine learning toe both find signal, but also protected yourself from risk. Right. So you've got a T said you gotta redact private information. So much of that information could be and not not no schema? Absolutely. Okay, So you're where are you in terms of solving that problem in the first inning or you deeper than that, >> we're probably would say beyond the first inning, but we so we've kind of figured out what that process is to get the data and all the piece parts working together. We've made some incredible insights already. Things that people, you know, I had no idea that was there. Um, but, uh, I'd say we still have a long way to go. Is particularly terms of scaling scaling the process, scaling the thie analytics, scaling the partnerships, figuring out how do we get the most throughput? I would say it's It's one of those things. We're measuring it on, maybe having a couple of good wins this year. A couple of really good projects that have come across. We want to kind of take that tube out 10 projects next year in this space. And that's how we're kind of measuring the velocity and the success >> data divas. I walked away and >> there was one of them Was breakfast this morning. Data divas. You hold this every year. >> D'oh! It's growing. Now we got data, >> dudes. So I was one of the few data dudes way walked in >> one of the women chief date officers. I got no problem with people calling me a P. >> I No. Yeah, I just sell. Sit down. Really? Bath s o. But also, >> what's the intent of that? What learning is that you take out of those? >> I think it's >> more. It's You know, you could honestly say this isn't just a data Debo problem. This is also, you know, anybody who feels like they're not being heard. Um, it's really easy to get drowned out in a lot of voices when it comes to data and analytics. Um, everybody has an opinion. I think. Remember, Ursula is always saying, Ah, all's fair in love, war and data. Um and it feels like, you know, sometimes you go, I'll come to the table and whoever has the loudest voice and whoever bangs their test the loudest, um, kind of wins the game. But I think in this case, you know, a lot of women are taking these roles. In fact, we saw, you know, a while back from Gardner that number about 25% of chief data officers are actually women because the role is evolving out of the business lines as opposed Thio more lines. And so I mean, it makes sense that, you know, were natural collaborators. I mean, like the biggest struggle and data governance isn't setting up frameworks. It's getting people to actually cooperate and bring data to the table and talk about their business processes that support that. And that's something that women do really well. But we've got to find our voice and our strength and our resolve. And we've got to support each other in trying to bring more diverse thinking to the table, you know? So it's it's all those kinds of issues and how do you balance family? I mean, >> we're seeing >> more and more. You know, I don't know if you know this, but there's actual statistics around millennials and that males are actually starting to take on more more role of being the the caregiver in the family. So I mean as we see that it's an interesting turnabout because now all the sudden, it's no longer, you know, women having that traditional role of, you know, I gotta always be home. Now we're actually starting to see a flip of that, which is which is, >> You know, I think it's kind of welcome. My husband's definitely >> I say he's a better parent than me. >> Friday. It's >> honest he'll watch this and he >> can thank me later that it was >> a great discussion this morning. Alan, I want to get your feedback on this event and also you participate in a couple of sessions yesterday. Maybe you could share with our audience Some of the key takeaways in the event of general and specific ones that you worked on yesterday. >> Well, I've been fortunate to come to the event for a couple of years now. And when we were just what 50 or so of us that were showing up? So, you know, I see that the evolution just in a couple of years time conversations have really changed. First meeting that we had people were saying, Where do you report in the organization? Um, how many people do you have? What do you do for your job? They were very different answers to any of that everywhere. From I'm an independent contributor that's a data evangelist to I run legions of data analysts and reporting shops, you know, and so forth and everything in between. And so what I see what it's offers in first year was really kind of a coalescing of what it really means to be a data officer in the company that actually happened pretty quickly in my mind, Um, when by seeing it through through the lens of my peers here, the other thing was when you when you think about the topics the topics are getting a lot more pointed. They're getting more pointed around the monetization of data communicating data through visualization, storytelling, key insights that you, you know, using different technologies. And we talked a lot yesterday about storytelling and storytelling is not through visual days in storytelling is not just about like who has the most, you know, colors on on a slide or or ah you know, animation of your bubble charts and things like that. But sometimes the best stories are told with the most simple charts because they resonate with your customers. And so what I think is it's almost like kind of getting a back to the basics when it comes to taking data and making it meaningful. We're only going to grow our organizations and data and data scientists and analysts. If we can communicate to the rest of the organization, our value and the key to creating that value is they can see themselves in our data. >> Yeah, the visit is we like to call it sometimes is critical to that to that storytelling. Sometimes I worry and we go onto these conferences and you go into a booth and look what we can do with machine learning, and we would just be looking at just this data. So what do I do? What >> I do with all this? Yeah. >> I don't know how it would make sense of it. So So is there a special storyteller role within your organization or you all storytellers? Do you cross train on that? Or >> it's funny you'd ask that one of the gentlemen of my team. He actually came to me about six months ago, and he says I'm really good at at the analysis part, but I really have a passion for things like Photoshopped things like, uh uh, uh the various, uh, video and video editing type software. He says I want to be your storyteller. I want to be creating a team of data and analytics storytellers for the rest of the organization. So we pitched the idea to our central hub and spoke leadership group. They loved it. They loved the idea. And he is now, um, oversubscribed. You would say in terms of demand for how do you tell the data? How do you tell the data story and how it's moving the business forward? And that takes the form kind of everything from infographics tell you also about how do you make it personal when, when? Now 7,000 m s. Ours have access to their own data. You know, really telling that at a at a very personal level, almost like a vignette of animus are who's now able to manage themselves using the data that they were not able able tto have before we're in the past, only managers had access to their performance results. This video, actually, you know, pulls on the heartstrings. But it it not only does that, but it really tells the story of how doing these types of things and creating these different data assets for the rest of your organization can actually have a very meaningful benefit to how they view work and how they view autonomy and how they view their own personal growth. >> That's critical, especially in a decentralized organization. Leased a quasi decentralized organization, getting everybody on the same page and understand You know what the vision is and what the direction is. It s so often if you don't have that storytelling capability, you have thousands of stories, and a lot of times there's dissonance. I mean, I'm not saying there's not in your in your organization, but have you seen the organization because of that storytelling capability become Mohr? Yeah, Joe. At least Mohr sort of effective and efficient, moving forward to the objectives. Well, >> you know, as a as a data person, I'm always biased thatyou know data, you know, can win an argument if presented the right way. It's the The challenge is when you're trying to overcome or go into a direction. And in this case, it was. We wanted to give more autonomy. Toothy MSR community. Well, the management of that call center were 94 year old company. And so the management of that of that call center has been doing things a certain way for many, many, many, many years. And the manager's having access to the data. The reps not That was how we did things, you know. And so when you make a change like that, there's a lot of hesitation of what is this going to do to us? How is this going to change? And what we're able to show with data and with through these visualizations is you really don't have anything to worry about? You're only gonna have upside, you know, in this conversation because at the end of the day, what's going to empower people this having access and power of >> their own destiny? Yeah, access is really the key isn't because we've all been in the meetings where somebody stands up and they've got some data point in there pounding the table, >> right? Oftentimes it's a man, all right. It >> is a powerful pl leader on jamming data down your throats, and you don't necessarily know the poor sap that he's, you know, beating up. Doesn't think Target doesn't have access to the data. This concept of citizen data scientists begins to a level that playing field doesn't want you seeing that >> it does. And I want to actually >> come back to what you're saying because there's a larger thought there, which is that we don't often address, and that's this change banishment concept. I mean, we we look at all these. I mean, everybody looks at all these technologies and all this information, and how much data can you possibly get your >> hands on? But at the end of >> the day, it's all about trying to create an outcome. A some joint outcome for the business and it could be threatening. It could be threatening to the C suite people who are actually deploying the use of these data driven tools because >> it may go >> against their gut. And, you >> know, oftentimes the poor messenger of that, >> When when you have to be the one that stands up and go against that, that senior vice presidents got it, the one who's pounding and saying No, but I know better >> That could be a >> tough position to be in without having some sort of change management philosophy going on with the introduction of data and analytics and with the introduction of tools, because there's a whole reframing that, Hey, my gut instinct that got me here all the way to the top doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to continue to scale in this new world with all of all of our competitors and all these, you know, massive changes going on in the market place right now. My guts not going to get me there anymore. So it's hard, it's hard, and I think a lot of executives don't really know to invest in that change management, if you know that goes with it that you need to change philosophies and mindsets and slowly introduced visualizations and things that get people slowly onboard, as opposed to just throwing it at him and saying here, believe it. >> Think I mean, it wasn't that >> long ago. Certainly this this millennium, where you know, publications like Harvard Business Review had, uh, cover stories on why gut feel, you know, beats, you know, analysis by paralysis. >> That seems to be changing. And >> the data purists would say the data doesn't lie. It was long as you could interpret it correctly. Let the data tell us what to do, as opposed to trying to push an agenda. But they're still politics. >> There's just things out >> there that you can't even perceive of that air coming your way. I mean, like, Blockbuster Netflix, Alibaba versus standard retailers. I mean, >> there's just things out >> there that without the use of things like machine learning and being comfortable with the use, the things like mission learning a lot of people think of that kind of stuff is >> Well, don't get your >> hoodoo voodoo into my business. You know, I don't know what that algorithm stuff does. It's >> going Yeah, I mean, e. I mean to say, What the hell is this? And now, yeah, it's coming and >> you need to get ready. >> There's an >> important role, though I think instinct, you know, you don't want to dismiss a 20 year leader in a particular operations because they've they've they've getting themselves where they're at because in large part, maybe they didn't have all the data. But they learned through a lot of those things, and I think it's when you marry those things up. And if you kenbrell in a kind of humble way to that kind of leader and win them over and show how it may be validating some of their, um uh yeah, that some of their points Or maybe how it explains it in a different way. Maybe it's not exactly what they want to see, but it's helping to inform their business, and you come into him as a partner, as opposed to gotcha, you know. Then then you know you can really change the business that way. And >> what is it? Was Linda Limbic brain is it just doesn't feel right. Is that the part of the brain that informs you that? And so It's hard to sometimes put, but you're right. Uh, there there is a component of this which is gut feel instinct and probably relates to to experience. So it's It's like, uh, when, when, uh, Deep blue beat Garry Kasparov. We talk about this all the time. It turns out that the best chess player in the world isn't a machine. It's a It's a human in the machine. >> That's right. That's exactly right. It's always the training that people training these things, that's where it gets its information. So at the end of the day, you're right. It's always still instinct to some >> level. I could We gotta go. All right. Last word on the event. You know what's next? >> Don't love my team. Data officer. Miss, you guys. It is good >> to be here. We appreciate it. All right, We'll leave it there. Thank you, guys. Thank you. All right, keep right. Everybody, this is Cuba. Live from IBM Chief Data Officer, Summit in Boston Right back. My name is Dave Volante.

>> live from San Francisco, California It's the queue at PM World 2014 Brought to you by VM where Cisco, E M, C, H P and Nutanix. Now, here are your hosts John Courier and Dave Ilan. Take >> Okay. Welcome back when live in San Francisco, California v m World 2014. This is the Cube where we extract the signal in the noise. I'm John for day. Volante are 50 year here Of'em world broadcasting wall to wall. Three days of live coverage. Our next guest, John Gill Martin, GM and VP of the Supper defined Data center business unit. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you. Glad to be here. >> Yeah. So this is an area. That may be mean. Streams. Not on top of what we love to geek out stuffing. Find data center Two years ago. Maybe three years. Feels like 10 years ago. See your acquisition and Martine's been on multiple times. Suffer. Virtualization really has set the agenda for what's going on in the data center. And remember, it was very much a buzzword. Std. See some fun data center. But now it's becoming a reality. I want first question get your perspective. Is Where is the meat on the bone right now. This year with somebody find designer. What is materializing right now in market that's available in happening >> has been fantastic, because if you think about our customers, they're all trying to move to this notion of self service. Cloud help the developers be more agile, be more productive and soft, defined clearly the right architecture to go do that. And the last year has really brought us the last couple of pieces to go. Make that a reality, Obviously never. Fertilization is a huge component. Delivery of NSX is really brought us a kind of leaps and bounds forward around that. The adoption of that has been great and then now a virtual sand as well, just to bring soft defined into the storage space. We were seeing a tremendous amount of interest. You take all of that, you fully virtualized your infrastructure, and then you bring management on top of that automate on top of that and really, now we have the ability building self service files inside the enterprise. Start to meet the meeting with developers, and you have this kind of a self service agile idea. >> It's almost as if you change in the airplane engine out at 30,000 feet with summer defined data center, people said on the Q bond. It's very difficult, but I want to get your perspective of where the pressure points of innovation are coming from coming from the APS service containers show the app, sir, setting the agenda were close. Now diversities another variable. It used to be the infrastructure would enable on top of it. Now we seem to be rushing down from the top, and this dynamic provisioning environment seems to be this DEV ops requirement all that's in place. So how do you how do you How do we talk about the innovation of the pressure point? What are those pressure >> points? Yeah, well, as you point out, it's really about the applications and the requirements of applications. And pushing down on the infrastructure, and in particular, is you look a kind of new style cloud native applications, which tend to be a bit different than traditional laps. They asking different things the infrastructure, and that's asking. Your developers are asking to do different things than necessarily what kind of fish in a lapse of required developers are looking for portability. They're looking for agility. They're looking for a difference that a tooling really. And you know they want that experience where they go to a website that Newton A P I and programmatically spin up infrastructure. And so that's really what enterprise like the organization's now our challenge to go Dio is to go provide that type of investor, actually support that for the helpers. Technology today is fundamental to the business model of every company out there. Used to just be about back office operations. Now it's really about the marketing organization, the sales organization, product development organizations. Every part of the business depends on technology is changing business models, and therefore this is really what's asking Iike organizations to be much more responsive and to do a lot more than they initially ever have in the past to support the business, to move >> quickly. So in terms of network organization, So how much is that? A part of this new model >> in our virtual station? Cooley a critical component to this right and, you know, a super interesting. When we first brought out NSX last year, a lot of value proposition was around the speed agility. And if you look at the big cloud providers, you like the big financial firms. That was the kind of primary motivation. Initially, we still see that a lot. It's been interesting, though, the last year to start to see the value proposition for network organization really shift. And if you're looking more than mainstream now, it's really a lot about this notion of micro segmentation. This notion of how do I bring security from that used to just be in the perimeter and start to bring that inside the data center. And that's been driving a lot of the interest and be able to get security controls all way down to the PM and the application >> itself. Just on Fridays. Pregame crowd shot we had Steve Perrin chimed in, Gone. The security question. I were the big opportunity for start ups, and he said Security. Yep, and it's really not about perimeter security anymore. It's about something else. Could you describe what he means by that icy perimeter? Security was the old way. Secure the perimeter. But people are getting in. Protect the queen with a moat. What does he mean by that? And why do you say that opportunities there? >> Yeah, that's the traditional model of security. The data center is you put up this big as you said moat around the data center, and you hope that no one get over that The problem was, if someone did, then it's all exposed on the inside it. And so the notion now is how do we bring security inside the data center? Protect those applications. But in order to do that, you know that traditional models were doing that, or just two operationally complex or too expensive just can't do it. Physical systems. So the beauty of never quit realization use and start to bring that in inside the data center, bring those security controls the BM and do so in with enough automation and policy based on mation that it's operationally feasible to manage. >> Well, what about the flip side of that? When the queen wants to leave her castle, >> how do >> you secure that use case? If I'm making sense and >> I'm not sure I understand. >> So Okay, so you get queen being the data, let's say and the data by its very nature is distributed. Right? So, um, okay, protect the perimeter. That's that's not enough. Now I can go deeper inside the data center and provide tools to make it simpler to deploy. Or if Aiken, you know, find a problem faster toe to solve that problem. But it's the data starts to become dispersed. How do I create a security model on? Does this software defined data center Help me do that. Accommodate that dispersed data that distributed data model? >> Yeah, because I mean the great thing is as you bring security controls into software and set it in the hardware, then you can travel and be part of that application. And actually, as the application moves or the date of that application moves, you can tie the security policies. The application itself >> was an application centric data centers security model, >> and it's and it's a platform also that you know, an ecosystem is building on top of to go, bring even deeper set of security capabilities. And top of you talk about the startups you're talking about a second ago, you know, it's this whole platform doubted for innovation. On top of that, you could bring really interesting ways of thinking about new security. >> Two years ago, when Pat Gelsinger took over as the C E o m. C. Had a financial analyst meeting, and Pat was part of that of your new C C F O stood up and talked about tam on gave a really good Chris presentation run that. I'm sure you're seeing these slides a lot. We see them as analysts big, big opportunity for VM wear, and a huge part of that opportunity is the software to find data center. So I wanted to dig into that a little bit. Specifically, when I look at things like Tam, I say, Okay, what's the business case? Because the business case is gonna ultimately determine the degree of the rapidity of the adoption. So I want if you could talk about the business case for the software defined data center, maybe compare it to sort of phase one, which is, you know, virtualized compute. Yes, this case was enormous. It was a 10 X value proposition. Is this bigger? Similar, Smaller, twice as big when we could talk about a little bit. >> And when you say business case obviously thinking about from the customer perspective, >> Wellit's, either I'm gonna cut costs or I'm gonna create some other kind of incremental business value. Other. I'm gonna drive revenues. I'm gonna reduce cycle times or introduce the lap times timeto value, et cetera. >> Yes, that's the interesting thing is often find data centers really kind of hitting on all of those things where the key motivators is really moving faster and be able to reduce like a times instead of four weeks to deploy an application. Let's get it down to a couple of minutes. Let's be able to meet the needs of developers to do Dave off style soft development. So it's all about speed and kind of driving revenue from the back end. If you start to think about the operating expense and capital expense, so shoot with the infrastructure. You can start to address those pretty aggressively, you know, if you think about virtual sand, for example, it's all about a different operating model for deploying storage virtual machines, its applications centric and V M Central, and so you can reduce the amount of time that initiators of spending, managing infrastructure and get them focused on the energy and kind of applications. So, one way to address topics, or if you think about the capital expense, what we see now you've done quite a bit of analysis is by virtual izing network fertilizing storage you can actually get down to anywhere between I think it's 35 49% reduction in the total capital expense of building your data center. So really significant opportunities to reduce costs both on the operating expense side through automation, but also the capital expense side by moving more intelligence into the hardware itself so that just like with virtualization, if you go back, you know, 5 10 years virtualization was a very simple capital expense story here. Now, where we have a story that's well, much broader than that, but still inclusive all those kind of capital expense benefits. >> I gotta ask you about competition. Just chicken out. What's going on around the conversations? Um, obsolete VM where staking their claim out Amazon on one front. But Microsoft's a player in the enterprise. So what do you guys do? These of the Microsoft partner frenemy. They're in there and start stuff. Our players got plowed. So how do you guys look at those guys? You guys too far down S o. >> You know, with Microsoft? Yeah. At this point, we still are. Let's see ourselves. It's really kind of leading the way around sort of virtual ization. And that's really been the kind of core in the foundation which we started from, and we still have tremendous set of capabilities there. And so that's kind of a starting point. And then you build off on everything we're doing around network fertilization, everything you're doing around soft defined storage, really a very differentiated set of capabilities and your eyes really unique set of capabilities from be able to build that whole virtualized infrastructure, then your episode of management capabilities on that that are increasingly header genius in nature. And we have this ability to kind of extend the data center in unique ways, you know, managing automated here but extended after the cloud as well. So pretty powerful set of kind of technology. >> Car legend Box said that VM wears it is a data center automation company. Um, should he added orchestration to that, too, or talk about that. What is data center automation company mean? Because he's referring to the South to find a descent course cloud certainly is automation, orchestration and the cloud, but from your in your world What does that mean? >> Automation is really about taking a lot of the manual activities that United Administrator or anybody else who's spending time infrastructures does. And let's run that in software. And that's not tie ourselves to operations that are specific, proprietary pieces of hardware. Let's get to a model where everything could be automated through software. We could get the scalable models of deployments and operations naturally, what automation means. Automation then allows you to start to move at the speed of business rather than being tied to the kind of infrastructure in the hardware and everything else underneath. >> So the other quote from Carl was awesome, by the way. Great interview, he said. How glad the customers still on friend. Okay, I buy that you have a zillion customers, a lot of Amon prim. Why not private club or private cloud is today? Or his private cloud, the halfway house or a way station to the hybrid cloud? So talk about that dynamic. You know, summer defined data center at the end of the day could be software driven. The end of the day is still a data center. You still have a data center somewhere where the damn ploughed or on Prem talk about that on premise dynamic. Yeah, >> so, yeah. Ultimately, if you think about kind of hybrid Cloud hybrid Cloud is really the combination of assets that you own inside the data center, along with assets. They're sitting someplace else. And you know, the motivations for that are I want to be able to think about how do I optimized? I want to think about how Doe I optimize my choices, a placement for projects that are either short lived, etcetera. And so there's a set of applications or projects where makes sense to go rent capacity. But if you actually look at the total total cost of ownership inside the data center, you can actually get too much better economics by owning the assets yourself, building on top. So there's definitely a ongoing and continued rule for the private cloud. But there's a very clear you said the use cases for extending periodically into the hybrid cloud. So, really, you know, let's combine both of those that could boast best of both. So let's do that away that seamless. So we really treat the management. The operations of everything is the same, regardless of whether it's inside or outside, right? >> So I mean the buzzword. Bingos all getting resect is the new new new names Air coming out of that re naming convention? I gotta ask you about kind of specifically around the suite that Pat talks about talks with sweet. So I just don't understand how that parses out relative the hyper conversion and describe to the folks what is hyper converge. That's the new buzzword I know. I know. Hyper scale is a hyper scale with convergence. Is that Web scale? So what you guys to find hyper converged as hyper >> converged is, in our mind, really kind of the coming together of prescriptive hardware definition with software that's preinstalled on tightly integrated so that it's really easy to get to time to die So you could get up running virtual machines in less than 15 minutes and do that all with kind of a prescriptive design, guidance, prescriptive kind of price understanding and a single support organization that call and get support. If you need help on, that's really >> built definition right here, up and running with >> 15 minutes right and one of the key enabler. So that is the sphere and other key enablers virtual sand and really building all that and types of inside. One of these kind of off the show, >> called Converge, Prepackaged, converge on purpose, built, converged essentially. But that's where it's going, right? That would be me. That's >> where it's headed, right? And it's so it's really about making it easy for an organization to get up and running, get person machines deployed super quickly on, then be able to expand that in a building block way that's expand very quickly and easily. >> John Gill Martin is the V P and general manager. Somebody find business unit for the M. Where, um, tell the folks out there the last word he had in the segment. Um, what's the biggest misconception of summer defined data center in context? Of'em, where >> I think the biggest misconception is that it's something that's far into the future. The reality is this is something that people are doing today. Technology exists. We can build this, and you know this is the way in the architecture that everyone's headed down doors. >> And what's the one thing that you could share that they might not know about you guys? It's a very positive thing. >> Well, you know, I hopefully people saw all the announcements and work we're doing around open staff, for example, Really looking to bring these types of open a pea eye's been a neutral AP eyes on top of this soft to find platform. And yeah, that's a big news item for us. I wanna make sure that everybody saw that. It's a big part of Webber Head >> Open Stack and Dr Too Big Documents. Relevant news pieces exactly. Gives the app developers essentially access to infrastructure without being infrastructure. Guys. Right, that's fundamentally >> again helping enterprise guys set up in infrastructure that developers can access. Programmatically. That's >> John Gill Martin inside the Cube. We're here live in San Francisco for the emerald 2014. I'm John for what David wanted right back after this short break