>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of AWS Public Sector Partner Awards. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the AWS Public Sector Partner Awards. We're going to be digging in. This award is for the most customer obsessed migration and happy to welcome to the program two first time guests coming to us from India. First of all, from the partner with Tech Mahindra, we have Gautam Chatterjee. He is the vice president with Tech Mahindra, who's the winner of the award, and they've brought along their customer for this, that is Satyendra Gupta, who is the director of the CPWD, which is the Central Public Works Department, part of the government of India. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> All right, if we could, let's start with just a quick summary of what your organizations do. Gautam, we'll start with you. Tech Mahindra, I think most of our audience, you know, should be aware, you know, large, very well known organization. Congratulations to you and the team on the win. Tell us what your part of Tech Mahindra does. >> Okay. So, Tech Mahindra is a five billion dollar organization, and it's a part of Mahindra and Mahindra. Which is approximately at $22 billion evaluation worldwide. So, Tech Mahindra is primarily into IT services and consulting services for the information technology and information technology related works across the globe. We have got multiple offices, almost around 90 locations across the country, and we have gotten to operations worldwide in different verticals and different geographies. So, as a part of Tech Mahindra, I manage the central government that is the public sector business for Tech Mahindra, based out of New Delhi, in India. And we handle the complete large public sector organizations and different ministries which are coming into the government of India. >> Wonderful! Satyendra, obviously public works, relatively self explanatory, but, tell us a little bit about your organization, your roll, and, if you could, introduce the project that your group worked with Tech Mahindra on. >> Okay, so, Central Public Works Department is a 165 year old organization that was aided by large technology. In 1854 was when this organization started working. The primary responsibility of this organization is to build the consistent works of the government of India. Primarily in the buildings sector. We see predominantly, Tech Mahindra will see predominantly you aiding the department, is that technical add-on to the government of India regarding these concepts and matters. Right, so, this department is spread across the country, from north, and in the south, Kerala. And from Gujarat in the west to another place in the east. This department has departments across the country. We had to use, with all tech with all the top companies we had thought (indistinct) is that only the building but we created and perfected from the government of India, like, the stadiums. That is not so many, wanted something that would have been very useful regarding the tsunami. Tsunami came so the government, the projects we picked up would be constantly small houses that we'd have to give it to. And CPWD, using the info technology since long, but we have it all along (indistinct) in value. Now, last year, it had been decided that we would implement the IT system in the CPWD very hard softwares and will be implementing a single use form, and everything will be connected to each other, too. So, this is what the internet for part of the implementation is. As far as myself is concerned, I am in charge of the implementation of this year for the system in the department. From it's inception to the end, and detailing the whole of the process until all the onboarding of the Tech Mahindra, and the implementation of. And then, from there after waiting a minute to, in the department to make it adaptable, we tell everybody. These are the roles that I have. >> All right, Gautam, if you could, migration's obviously a big part of what I expect Tech Mahindra is helping customers with. Help frame up, you know, the services that you're doing, talk a little bit, if you could, the underlying AWS component of it, and, you know, specifically, give us a little bit about Tech Mahindra's role in the public works project that we were just talking about. >> Okay. So, coming to the relationship and the journey which you have started for the CPWD project, it's around a year, year and a half work when you have started interacting with CPWD. By understanding their business challenges and the business department, which is primarily automating the whole processes. And there are multiple applications, multiple processes which they wanted to automate. Now, definitely once their automation comes into the picture, you have to take place the complete automation of the applications, the complete automations of the infrastructure, and the complete automations of the UI part of it. That is the user perceptions, user interface, right? So, all three has been covered by this company to automation process. As a part of the system integrations business, our main objective is to plan and bring the respective OEMs, who are the best of the great, our technology providers, to bring them to utilize those platforms, and to utilize those course applications, so that, by utilizing those technologies and applications, we can automate the complete process and provide the complete drill down management view to CPWD for their inter-operations and application. In the process of doing that, what we have done, we have brought in SAP as an ace for HANA implementation, which is the primary business applications which will be implemented in CPWD. The inter-user log-in and user interface will be done through a portal, and that portal will be utilizing the Liferay user portal, which will be the front end user interface. There will be an eTendering application, which will be also through one of my large general partners, who will be working together for us for the eTendering applications, which is also a part of ours, and 40 of the whole automation process. And inter-application, eTendering, the portal, and all the applications, as a matter of fact, will be hosted to the cloud on AWS platform. Now, once you're talking about the AWS platform, that means it will implement the complete infrastructure of the service, and the complete platform as a service. So, all the computed storage, everything will be deploying from the AWS cloud, and necessarily all the platform in terms of your database applications, all third-party tools to do the performance testing, management, monitoring. Everything will be provided as a platform of the service by AWS. So, we, engaged AWS from the beginning itself, the AWS team, and SMP team, both major OEMs worked with us very hand and gloves from day one. And we had multiple interactions with the customer. We understood the challenges. We understood the number of users, number of iterations, number of redundancy, number of high, I mean, the kind of high availability they will require in times of the business difficulty of the applications, and based on which, together, along with AWS, Tech Mahindra, and SAP, all three of us together, and I have the complete solutions, architecture, and the optimizations of the whole solutions, so that overall impact comes to CPWD as the customer, the ultimate results, and the business output they deserve. You know? So, that is where we actually interacted. We have got the interactions with AWS solutions team, AWS architect team, along with our interface architect and the solutions team, who worked very closely along with the customers, them desizing so that it exactly matches the requirement not only for today, down the line for the next four years, because the complete implementation cycle is 18 months, and after that, Tech Mahindra is a prime service provider. We'll provide the four years after implementation support to CPWD, because we all understand that any government department, they need government understanding. These kind of business applications implementation is a transformation. Now, this transformation definitely cannot happen overnight. It has to happen through a process, through a cycle, and through a phase, because there will be the users who will be the proactive users who will start using the inter-applications from the beginning, and, gradually, the more and more success, the more and more user friendliness will come into the whole picture. Then, participation for multiple users, multiple stakeholders will come on board. The moment that comes in, the users load, the user's participation and user's load, both into the platforms, both into the infrastructure will keep on changing, keep on increasing, and that is why our role will be how to manage the complete infrastructure, how to manage the complete platform throughout the journey of this transformation of five and a half years. And that is what the exact role as a prime and large MSP Tech Mahindra will perform for the next five and a half years along with AWS, along with CPWD, and along with SAP. (coughs) >> All right, well, Satyendra, Gautam just laid out, I think, a lot of the reasons why they won the customer obsessed award from AWS on this. You know, I think back to earlier in my career and you talk about NSAP rollout, and it's not only the length of time that it takes for the rollout, and the finance involved, but what Gautam was talking about is the organizational impact and adoptions. So, I would love to hear from your side. You know, what were the goals that you had coming into this? It sounds like getting greater adoption inside the organization for using these services. Give us your insight as to, you know, how that roll-out has been going, the goals you had, how you're meeting them, any success metrics that you use internally to talk about how the project has gone so far. >> We implement the Atlas System in the CPWD, the activities going on since a long time. It was more than one and a half years had been passed, we have angers, one of them concerning our ideas and the way we transform our business processes. They have some certain ideas and that the app implementation is the last one. Most of them have been implemented and we have started, started to get ideas to implement some, but we had bad interactions with all the leading IT service providers in the country, along with all the leading cloud service providers in the country, and this, of course, all the leading EIP services, OEMs, EIP, OEMs, so and so. But, it's a long journey, we have a trial approximately half of the deadline from there. To inform returning process, Tech Mahindra has been appointed as the system integrator and they have come with all the sorts of the services that they are offering, for example, they plan to use SAP, and EIP will be in there, as well. This "one life" system for the portal, eTendering, is a primary credit, has been done. And overall everything has been hosted on the AWS cloud platform. So, it's just that, when could we have. And, everybody knows that Amazon is the leading cloud service provider with the largest of the facilities available with us, so, during this journey, we have got lots of support from the AWS via lots of the credit regarding us to get it set up with the AWS team, and continuously boosted our office and explained each of our queries on this, and now, from the march onwards, Tech Mahindra has started the implementation process we are in. More than four months have been passed since then. And we have covered a lot. The whole objective of this implementation is all our activities will be done on this EIP system, only that if somebody is working in the CPWD, you will activate that. Work in the CPWD on the EIP, or you will not be able to work at all. This is a light goal and whole system. But, all of our system is going to be automatic. Earlier, we were having a different idea because when we were working in the silos, everything we wanted to be integrated with each other, and the time that will be invested to make the entry of the different activity at a different time and with the applications, applicants are not talking to each other, they are working in the silos, but that will go away. So, what we are expecting everything will be on the EIP system, as well, and we are expecting the efficiency of the CPWD unit is going to be increased tremendously. Apart from this, they will handle a more number of the works compared to what they were handling and the time in it since. And everything will revolved around the click of the buttons and we need not to go and ask from anybody to give the reports, et cetera. So, problem management must peak, too. By the click of the button, we will also be able to get all the inputs, all the reports with what is going on across the country. And that idea. So, it is going to be really a transformation to the working of the department, and, in whole, the entire public work center of this country is going to be benefited out of this. This has been like a lighthouse today. This EIP implemented in the CPWD is the lighthouse up ahead, so there are more than 30 public work departments, said public work departments are working, so this is going to create and open a window for everybody there. Once it is a success of this implementation, we'll have it far reaching implication on the implementation of that EIP system or a similar idea for implications in the public works or in the whole country. So, so, there's lots of these stakes our there. To any and, hopefully, with the help of Tech Mahindra, with the help of SAP, AWS, and Amazon, one day they will be able to implement successfully and we will, we are going to get the benefit out of. Everybody is going benefit, not only the Central Public Works Department, but all of our stakeholders. All the stakeholders in terms of businesses, in terms of their reach to the Public Works, and there is a new door to open because the IT had not been leveraged the way in the Public Works Department in the central department or the state government. The other IT system hadn't used EIP. It is going, it's a lighthouse headed to success. We'll have a far reaching implication for everybody. >> Well, I tell you, Satyendra, that's been the promise of cloud, that we should be able to do something, and the scalability and repeatability is something that we should be able to go. Gautam, I want to give you the final word on this. You know, speak to how does cloud, how do we enable this to be able to scale throughout many groups within the organization without having to be, you know, as much work, you know. I think about traditional IT, it's, well, okay, I spend a project, I spend so much time on it, and then every time I need to repeat it, I kind of, you know, have that same amount of work. The, you know, labor should go down as we scale out in a cloud environment. Is that, what you feel, the case? You know, help us understand how this lighthouse account will expand. >> Okay. So, any cloud, you know, have initiative nowadays into any organization. It depends. It primarily benefits in both the ways. Number one, the organization doesn't require to invest up front on the capital expenditure part of it. That's very important. Number two, the organization has got the flexibility to scale up and scale down based on the customer requirements. Within a click of the mouse. It doesn't take any time. Because the inter-positioning of the infrastructure is available with the cloud infrastructure service provider. And, similarly, the scaling of the platforms, that's also available with the cloud infrastructure provider. So, once you do the complete mapping requirement and the sizing for the entire tenure of the project, then the provisioning and deprovisioning is not a matter of time, it can happen with a click of mouse. That's number one. Number two, it's become a challenging activity for any government organization to have their own IT set-up. To manage such a huge, mammoth task of the entire infrastructure, applications, services, troubleshooting, 24 by 7, everything. So, that's not expected from the large government organizations, as such, because that's not their business. Their business is to run the country, their business to run the organization, their business to grow the country's different ideas. And, the IT services organizations, like Tech Mahindra, is there to support those kind of automation processes. And, the platforms which are available on the cloud nowadays, that's the ease of inter-applications, inter-management, monitoring, availability of the entire infrastructure, that makes use of the whole, complete system. So, it all works together. It's not a thing that the system integration organizations already will do the all new reform. It has to happen in synergies. So, application has to work together, infrastructure has to be available together, the management, monitoring has to happen, scaling up, scaling down has to happen, all kinds of updates, upgrades, and badges down the line for the company, continuing of the whole contract has to happen so that the system, once up and running and benefited, it's performing at least for a period of the next five years, as the tenure of the contract, in multiple department happens. Now, what Mr. Gupta was saying, it's very very true that CPWD is the kind of motherly organizations for all public works departments in the country. And, all the public works departments in the country are eagerly looking at this project. Now, it is very important for all of us, not only for Tech Mahindra, Tech Mahindra, SAP, Liferay, and AWS, together, to work and make this project as a success, because it is not a reason that, as a simple customer, this project has to be successful. It's a flexible project for the government of India, and it's been monitored by Didac Lee, the government of India officials, and top ranking bodies on a day in and day out basis, number one. Number two, if we become successful together in this project, there will be an avenue for what Satyendra Gupta has said. That all state PWDs will be open to everybody. They will try and adopt, and they will try and implement a similar kind of system to all the respective states in the country. So it's a huge opportunity in terms of technology enhancement, automations, infrastructure, applications, and moreover, as a service provider, to provide the services to all these bodies, together, which, I feel, it's a huge huge opportunity for all of us together, and we are confident that we will work together, hand in gloves, the way we have done from the day one of this initiative, and we'll take it forward. >> All right, well Satyendra, thank you so much for sharing the details of your project, wish you the best of luck with that going forward. And, Gautam, congratulations again to Tech Mahindra for winning the most customer obsessed migration solution. Thank you both for joining. >> Both: Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, and thank you for joining. I'm Stu Miniman, this is theCUBE's coverage of AWS Public Sector Partner Awards. Thanks for watching. >> Gautam: Thank you very much. (bright upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE covering HPE Discover Virtual Experience, brought to you by HPE. >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of HPE's Discover 2020, the Virtual Experience. I'm Lisa Martin and I'm pleased to be joined by Harshul Asnani, the Global Head of the Technology Business at HPE partner, Tech Mahindra. Harshul, great to have you on the program. >> Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. >> So, tell me about Tech Mahindra. I see on the website abbreviated as Tech M, give our audience an overview of Tech Mahindra, what you guys do. >> Sure. So Tech Mahindra is digital transformation consulting and technology services company operating at the intersection of IT engineering networks and BPO services. We have about 125,000 people operating in our 90 countries with about 5.2 billion in revenue, and have about 1,000 customers across key strategic verticles our largest being communications, media, and entertainment. And then we have other strong word because like technology, manufacturing, HLS, BFSI, the retail, and energy, and utilities. So that's broadly what we do, being in existence for well over 30 years now. >> And tell me about your role as the Head of the Global Technology Business. What have you seen transpire and evolve over the last few years, and especially the last three months with COVID? >> Sure. No, absolutely. I think, you see, we have organized a company around six strategic business units. They are these customer facing business units and I lead the one that focuses on technology and the high tech industry, if you will. I'm based in the Bay Area. And in this business unit, a large part of our business is, in some sense, 360 degree relationship with our customers, where not only do we sell into our customers, we also sell with and sell through our customers and also buy from them. So in that sense, it's a little different model in which we operate as compared to, say, other verticals that we have like manufacturing or BFSI or healthcare, but the relationship is largely customer and a supplier relationship. We have a full blown 360 degree relationship. It's very unique from that standpoint. And things have, you know, in some sense, dramatically shifted in the last three years, rather three months where we are seeing that, you know, amount of digital transformation, which was to happen over the next two years, has kind of happened in the last two months. So this is kind of pivoting a lot of enterprises, and including the tech sector, into an era where we are saying, how do we reposition ourselves to bring in more COVID-related solutions, both from a commercial standpoint, as well as a humanitarian standpoint, to deal with this crisis. So that it does in terms of changes that are happening out there in the industry, as well as in Tech Mahindra, as we can't forget ready fore-global and post -lobal. >> If you look at some of the specific trends that you're seeing during the COVID crisis, in the high tech segment, what are they? >> So, a couple of things have, we've looked at very differently. Supply chain for example, which is very crucial to high tech, is undergoing, in some sense, a metamorphoses shift. It's undergoing a seismic shift in the way supply chains are kind of reconfiguring themselves. You're also seeing customer experience kind of dramatically changing. Another thing that is coming in very, very strongly from a change perspective, it's kind of a storm that is brewing out there is, is how do we enable people to work remotely? We at Tech Mahindra, ourselves, had to enable 80,000 people in India who work remotely in a matter of weeks. And it's by no means an easy task to do which in a country where working from home is not really a culture. And also where we work, out of secure customer premises, even in India, our secure offshore locations in India, and all those people have now moved to their homes, and work out with their living rooms and bedrooms. And that was a sizable shift in the way we had to deal with our engagements, and with our customers. And so far so good, knock on wood, We have not had any issues. >> So Harshul, pivoting so quickly, as Tech M did to get your 80,000 employees in India to be able to work from home connectivity, all the challenges associated with that, goes hand in hand with your business, being able to deliver an exceptional customer experience, customer experience being an issue that you say is a rising trend amongst your customers. Customer experience and work from home these days go hand in hand, right? >> Absolutely. No, I think we also surprised ourselves with the pace at which we could move these 80,000 people to work from home in a matter of days, as I was saying, and as without missing customers. Our task was unimaginable in the pre-COVID era. And we will also surprised ourselves at the pace at which we could turn around COVID-related solutions so quickly with the help of partners like HPE that are today helping us pivot ourselves from one kind of old age solutions to the new age solutions, to the new normal today. And yeah, of course, and at the same time, we are to ensure that we enable the customer experience, and doing this on that while we repurpose our people to work from home. It was a challenge, and frankly, we surprised ourselves the way we did. >> So Harshul, talk to me about what, in these COVID crisis times, HPE and Tech Mahindra are doing together to help your customers accelerate, maybe adoption of new technologies that they need to for their businesses to thrive. >> Yeah, sure. No, that's a great question, Lisa. Let me start by saying that HPE is a very strategic partnership for us, and we see it as a coming together of two market leaders to deliver a very differentiated playbook of solutions for our customers. There is a robust set of products and solutions and edge offerings, edge gateways, converged edge systems, and clear analytics, combined with HPE's great GreenLake offers, which is around flexible consumption-based services, which helps align our customers' IT spend to deliver pretty much everything as a service. We kind of have already robust partner in HPE. And when you combine this with a Tech Mahindra's industry domain and technology depth, and the systems integration wherewithal that we bring in, it makes form, I believe, a very potent combination to drive, serious value to our customers, right? And given the COVID situation, we have kind of defined our relationship along three broad vectors based on the mutual synergies and where we believe we can quickly drive value. Firstly, what the solution white spaces that we want to address together? Secondly, what are the geographies that you want to operate in and third is, what are the industry verticals that we believe we can quickly focus on? So from a solutioning standpoint, there are four broad trust areas that we want to sharply focus on. Firstly IoT. It's been a strong partnership with HP with IoT. And we would like to continue that followed. With HBE's edge offerings, and converged edge systems, we have kind of demonstrated the possibilities of IoT solutions across smart cities, factories of the future, of energy and utilities and of Costa Rico. And we have some good success stories we already have with HPE that would like to build on, we have won some for significant smart city projects in India, in four different cities of India. And we also, by the way, won the Systems Integrator Award for Edge and IoT from HPE last year, and also the SI Partner of the Year for HPE last year. So we would like to continue to build on that. We all see already have a COE on IoT set up in Bangalore. It's a very unique COE that we're built up where we have showcasing solutions around a smart city or IoT, and also brought in Aruba gear as well, but solutions that are smart campuses, so on and so forth. So, that's number one. Number two is data center transformation. As hybrid cloud kind of takes root through our customers are now looking at transforming their data centers as well. And particularly with HPE's GreenLake, it becomes a very strategic commercial tool for us to bring on demand paper, use models, elasticity, kind of the, as I was talking about, the flexible consumption services model, which is so unique today, as we help customers reduce their capex and get them to pay by the drink, if you will. Now that becomes very, very relevant in the COVID times. And last but not the least, our focus is also on network of the future. When I say that our partnership with HPE is really pivoted around 5G, as DNFE and private LTE solutions. For example, you know, HPE's private LTE network, which is essentially powered by HPE's EL300 and EL4000 converged edge systems. It's kind augmented by our industrial IoT expertise. And it includes a reintegrated, off the shelf, industrial IoT application from Tech Manhira. It's a kind of an end to end solution that uses the breakthrough innovation such as small sales EPC, and smart multi-access edge compute. So, we are staying sharply focused on these areas. And we started seeing the results, and given the goals in this scenario, we have evolved a bunch of use cases very quickly in multiple industry areas. And bought from a commercial library standpoint, and also importantly, on a humanitarian level, what we can do together. For example, in Italy, as the pandemic was raging. As many of you will know, a ship force can order into a hospital, probably 1,000 bed hospital, and HPE stepped in, and they brought in the Aruba gear to put up network together, the infrastructure and the connectivity to bring together, and take Manhira, which has a rapid response healthcare solution who help with remote patient diagnostics and monitoring. Kind of brought in that solution along with HPE, to bear in Italy as the pandemic was raging. So that's just an example of how we are partnering at multiple levels. You know, created a solution around workspace as a service, as an remote working becomes a new normal. >> Right. >> With HPE on that. So a bunch of other solutions as well, Lisa. >> Sounds like you guys have done a great job of, as you mentioned in the beginning of our time here, rapidly pivoting within Tech Mahindra, as you said, it actually kind of surprised ourselves to what you were doing with HPE to deploy rapidly in Italy, to I can only imagine helping customers accelerate projects like smart cities and smart factories where suddenly we need sensors on more things. Harshul, I thank you so much for spending time with us on theCUBE today. Exciting topics. We can't wait to see where this goes. >> Well, thank you so much, Lisa, for your time. It was great talking to you. >> Excellent. My pleasure. For Harshul, I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover 2020. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

>> theCUBE's live coverage is made possible by funding from Dell Technologies. Creating technologies that drive human progress. (ambient music) >> Lisa: Hey everyone, welcome back to Barcelona, Spain. It's theCUBE Live at MWC 23. Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante. This is day two of four days of cube coverage but you know that, because you've already been watching yesterday and today. We're going to have a great conversation next with EnterpriseWeb and Red Hat. We've had great conversations the last day and a half about the Telco industry, the challenges, the opportunities. We're going to unpack that from this lens. Please welcome Dave Duggal, founder and CEO of EnterpriseWeb and Azhar Sayeed is here, Senior Director Solution Architecture at Red Hat. >> Guys, it's great to have you on the program. >> Yes. >> Thank you Lisa, >> Great being here with you. >> Dave let's go ahead and start with you. Give the audience an overview of EnterpriseWeb. What kind of business is it? What's the business model? What do you guys do? >> Okay so, EnterpriseWeb is reinventing middleware, right? So the historic middleware was to build vertically integrated stacks, right? And those stacks are now such becoming the rate limiters for interoperability for so the end-to-end solutions that everybody's looking for, right? Red Hat's talking about the unified platform. You guys are talking about Supercloud, EnterpriseWeb addresses that we've built middleware based on serverless architecture, so lightweight, low latency, high performance middleware. And we're working with the world's biggest, we sell through channels and we work through partners like Red Hat Intel, Fortnet, Keysight, Tech Mahindra. So working with some of the biggest players that have recognized the value of our innovation, to deliver transformation to the Telecom industry. >> So what are you guys doing together? Is this, is this an OpenShift play? >> Is it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, so we've got two projects right her on the floor at MWC throughout the various partners, where EnterpriseWeb is actually providing an application layer, sorry application middleware over Red Hat's, OpenShift and we're essentially generating operators so Red Hat operators, so that all our vendors, and, sorry vendors that we onboard into our catalog can be deployed easily through the OpenShift platform. And we allow those, those vendors to be flexibly composed into network services. So the real challenge for operators historically is that they, they have challenges onboarding the vendors. It takes a long time. Each one of them is a snowflake. They, you know, even though there's standards they don't all observe or follow the same standards. So we make it easier using models, right? For, in a model driven process to on boards or streamline that onboarding process, compose functions into services deploy those services seamlessly through Red Hat's OpenShift, and then manage the, the lifecycle, like the quality of service and the SLAs for those services. >> So Red Hat obviously has pretty prominent Telco business has for a while. Red Hat OpenStack actually is is pretty popular within the Telco business. People thought, "Oh, OpenStack, that's dead." Actually, no, it's actually doing quite well. We see it all over the place where for whatever reason people want to build their own cloud. And, and so, so what's happening in the industry because you have the traditional Telcos we heard in the keynotes that kind of typical narrative about, you know, we can't let the over the top vendors do this again. We're, we're going to be Apifi everything, we're going to monetize this time around, not just with connectivity but the, but the fact is they really don't have a developer community. >> Yes. >> Yet anyway. >> Then you have these disruptors over here that are saying "Yeah, we're going to enable ISVs." How do you see it? What's the landscape look like? Help us understand, you know, what the horses on the track are doing. >> Sure. I think what has happened, Dave, is that the conversation has moved a little bit from where they were just looking at IS infrastructure service with virtual machines and OpenStack, as you mentioned, to how do we move up the value chain and look at different applications. And therein comes the rub, right? You have applications with different requirements, IT network that have various different requirements that are there. So as you start to build those cloud platform, as you start to modernize those set of applications, you then start to look at microservices and how you build them. You need the ability to orchestrate them. So some of those problem statements have moved from not just refactoring those applications, but actually now to how do you reliably deploy, manage in a multicloud multi cluster way. So this conversation around Supercloud or this conversation around multicloud is very >> You could say Supercloud. That's okay >> (Dave Duggal and Azhar laughs) >> It's absolutely very real though. The reason why it's very real is, if you look at transformations around Telco, there are two things that are happening. One, Telco IT, they're looking at partnerships with hybrid cloud, I mean with public cloud players to build a hybrid environment. They're also building their own Telco Cloud environment for their network functions. Now, in both of those spaces, they end up operating two to three different environments themselves. Now how do you create a level of abstraction across those? How do you manage that particular infrastructure? And then how do you orchestrate all of those different workloads? Those are the type of problems that they're actually beginning to solve. So they've moved on from really just putting that virtualizing their application, putting it on OpenStack to now really seriously looking at "How do I build a service?" "How do I leverage the catalog that's available both in my private and public and build an overall service process?" >> And by the way what you just described as hybrid cloud and multicloud is, you know Supercloud is what multicloud should have been. And what, what it originally became is "I run on this cloud and I run on this cloud" and "I run on this cloud and I have a hybrid." And, and Supercloud is meant to create a common experience across those clouds. >> Dave Duggal: Right? >> Thanks to, you know, Supercloud middleware. >> Yeah. >> Right? And, and so that's what you guys do. >> Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Dave, I mean, even the name EnterpriseWeb, you know we started from looking from the application layer down. If you look at it, the last 10 years we've looked from the infrastructure up, right? And now everybody's looking northbound saying "You know what, actually, if I look from the infrastructure up the only thing I'll ever build is silos, right?" And those silos get in the way of the interoperability and the agility the businesses want. So we take the perspective as high level abstractions, common tools, so that if I'm a CXO, I can look down on my environments, right? When I'm really not, I honestly, if I'm an, if I'm a CEO I don't really care or CXO, I don't really care so much about my infrastructure to be honest. I care about my applications and their behavior. I care about my SLAs and my quality of service, right? Those are the things I care about. So I really want an EnterpriseWeb, right? Something that helps me connect all my distributed applications all across all of the environments. So I can have one place a consistency layer that speaks a common language. We know that there's a lot of heterogeneity down all those layers and a lot of complexity down those layers. But the business doesn't care. They don't want to care, right? They want to actually take their applications deploy them where they're the most performant where they're getting the best cost, right? The lowest and maybe sustainability concerns, all those. They want to address those problems, meet their SLAs meet their quality service. And you know what, if it's running on Amazon, great. If it's running on Google Cloud platform, great. If it, you know, we're doing one project right here that we're demonstrating here is with with Amazon Tech Mahindra and OpenShift, where we took a disaggregated 5G core, right? So this is like sort of latest telecom, you know net networking software, right? We're deploying pulling elements of that network across core, across Amazon EKS, OpenShift on Red Hat ROSA, as well as just OpenShift for cloud. And we, through a single pane of deployment and management, we deployed the elements of the 5G core across them and then connected them in an end-to-end process. That's Telco Supercloud. >> Dave Vellante: So that's an O-RAN deployment. >> Yeah that's >> So, the big advantage of that, pardon me, Dave but the big advantage of that is the customer really doesn't care where the components are being served from for them. It's a 5G capability. It happens to sit in different locations. And that's, it's, it's about how do you abstract and how do you manage all those different workloads in a cohesive way? And that's exactly what EnterpriseWeb is bringing to the table. And what we do is we abstract the underlying infrastructure which is the cloud layer. So if, because AWS operating environment is different then private cloud operating environment then Azure environment, you have the networking is set up is different in each one of them. If there is a way you can abstract all of that and present it in a common operating model it becomes a lot easier than for anybody to be able to consume. >> And what a lot of customers tell me is the way they deal with multicloud complexity is they go with mono cloud, right? And so they'll lose out on some of the best services >> Absolutely >> If best of, so that's not >> that's not ideal, but at the end of the day, agree, developers don't want to muck with all the plumbing >> Dave Duggal: Yep. >> They want to write code. >> Azhar: Correct. >> So like I come back to are the traditional Telcos leaning in on a way that they're going to enable ISVs and developers to write on top of those platforms? Or are there sort of new entrance and disruptors? And I know, I know the answer is both >> Dave Duggal: Yep. >> but I feel as though the Telcos still haven't, traditional Telcos haven't tuned in to that developer affinity, but you guys sell to them. >> What, what are you seeing? >> Yeah, so >> What we have seen is there are Telcos fall into several categories there. If you look at the most mature ones, you know they are very eager to move up the value chain. There are some smaller very nimble ones that have actually doing, they're actually doing something really interesting. For example, they've provided sandbox environments to developers to say "Go develop your applications to the sandbox environment." We'll use that to build an net service with you. I can give you some interesting examples across the globe that, where that is happening, right? In AsiaPac, particularly in Australia, ANZ region. There are a couple of providers who have who have done this, but in, in, in a very interesting way. But the challenges to them, why it's not completely open or public yet is primarily because they haven't figured out how to exactly monetize that. And, and that's the reason why. So in the absence of that, what will happen is they they have to rely on the ISV ecosystem to be able to build those capabilities which they can then bring it on as part of the catalog. But in Latin America, I was talking to one of the providers and they said, "Well look we have a public cloud, we have our own public cloud, right?" What we want do is use that to offer localized services not just bring everything in from the top >> But, but we heard from Ericson's CEO they're basically going to monetize it by what I call "gouge", the developers >> (Azhar laughs) >> access to the network telemetry as opposed to saying, "Hey, here's an open platform development on top of it and it will maybe create something like an app store and we'll take a piece of the action." >> So ours, >> to be is a better model. >> Yeah. So that's perfect. Our second project that we're showing here is with Intel, right? So Intel came to us cause they are a reputation for doing advanced automation solutions. They gave us carte blanche in their labs. So this is Intel Network Builders they said pick your partners. And we went with the Red Hat, Fort Net, Keysite this company KX doing AIML. But to address your DevX, here's Intel explicitly wants to get closer to the developers by exposing their APIs, open APIs over their infrastructure. Just like Red Hat has APIs, right? And so they can expose them northbound to developers so developers can leverage and tune their applications, right? But the challenge there is what Intel is doing at the low level network infrastructure, right? Is fundamentally complex, right? What you want is an abstraction layer where develop and this gets to, to your point Dave where you just said like "The developers just want to get their job done." or really they want to focus on the business logic and accelerate that service delivery, right? So the idea here is an EnterpriseWeb they can literally declaratively compose their services, express their intent. "I want this to run optimized for low latency. I want this to run optimized for energy consumption." Right? And that's all they say, right? That's a very high level statement. And then the run time translates it between all the elements that are participating in that service to realize the developer's intent, right? No hands, right? Zero touch, right? So that's now a movement in telecom. So you're right, it's taking a while because these are pretty fundamental shifts, right? But it's intent based networking, right? So it's almost two parts, right? One is you have to have the open APIs, right? So that the infrastructure has to expose its capabilities. Then you need abstractions over the top that make it simple for developers to take, you know, make use of them. >> See, one of the demonstrations we are doing is around AIOps. And I've had literally here on this floor, two conversations around what I call as network as a platform. Although it sounds like a cliche term, that's exactly what Dave was describing in terms of exposing APIs from the infrastructure and utilizing them. So once you get that data, then now you can do analytics and do machine learning to be able to build models and figure out how you can orchestrate better how you can monetize better, how can how you can utilize better, right? So all of those things become important. It's just not about internal optimization but it's also about how do you expose it to third party ecosystem to translate that into better delivery mechanisms or IOT capability and so on. >> But if they're going to charge me for every API call in the network I'm going to go broke (team laughs) >> And I'm going to get really pissed. I mean, I feel like, I'm just running down, Oracle. IBM tried it. Oracle, okay, they got Java, but they don't they don't have developer jobs. VMware, okay? They got Aria. EMC used to have a thing called code. IBM had to buy Red Hat to get to the developer community. (Lisa laughs) >> So I feel like the telcos don't today have those developer shops. So, so they have to partner. [Azhar] Yes. >> With guys like you and then be more open and and let a zillion flowers bloom or else they're going to get disrupted in a big way and they're going to it's going to be a repeat of the over, over the top in, in in a different model that I can't predict. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely true. I mean, look, they cannot be in the connectivity business. Telcos cannot be just in the connectivity business. It's, I think so, you know, >> Dave Vellante: You had a fry a frozen hand (Dave Daggul laughs) >> off that, you know. >> Well, you know, think about they almost have to go become over the top on themselves, right? That's what the cloud guys are doing, right? >> Yeah. >> They're riding over their backbone that by taking a creating a high level abstraction, they in turn abstract away the infrastructure underneath them, right? And that's really the end game >> Right? >> Dave Vellante: Yeah. >> Is because now, >> they're over the top it's their network, it's their infrastructure, right? They don't want to become bid pipes. >> Yep. >> Now you, they can take OpenShift, run that in any cloud. >> Yep. >> Right? >> You can run that in hybrid cloud, enterprise web can do the application layer configuration and management. And together we're running, you know, OSI layers one through seven, east to west, north to south. We're running across the the RAN, the core and the transport. And that is telco super cloud, my friend. >> Yeah. Well, >> (Dave Duggal laughs) >> I'm dominating the conversation cause I love talking super cloud. >> I knew you would. >> So speaking of super superpowers, when you're in customer or prospective customer conversations with providers and they've got, obviously they're they're in this transformative state right now. How, what do you describe as the superpower between Red Hat and EnterpriseWeb in terms of really helping these Telcos transforms. But at the end of the day, the connectivity's there the end user gets what they want, which is I want this to work wherever I am. >> Yeah, yeah. That's a great question, Lisa. So I think the way you could look at it is most software has, has been evolved to be specialized, right? So in Telcos' no different, right? We have this in the enterprise, right? All these specialized stacks, all these components that they wire together in the, in you think of Telco as a sort of a super set of enterprise problems, right? They have all those problems like magnified manyfold, right? And so you have specialized, let's say orchestrators and other tools for every Telco domain for every Telco layer. Now you have a zoo of orchestrators, right? None of them were designed to work together, right? They all speak a specific language, let's say quote unquote for doing a specific purpose. But everything that's interesting in the 21st century is across layers and across domains, right? If a siloed static application, those are dead, right? Nobody's doing those anymore. Even developers don't do those developers are doing composition today. They're not doing, nobody wants to hear about a 6 million lines of code, right? They want to hear, "How did you take these five things and bring 'em together for productive use?" >> Lisa: Right. How did you deliver faster for my enterprise? How did you save me money? How did you create business value? And that's what we're doing together. >> I mean, just to add on to Dave, I was talking to one of the providers, they have more than 30,000 nodes in their infrastructure. When I say no to your servers running, you know, Kubernetes,running open stack, running different components. If try managing that in one single entity, if you will. Not possible. You got to fragment, you got to segment in some way. Now the question is, if you are not exposing that particular infrastructure and the appropriate KPIs and appropriate things, you will not be able to efficiently utilize that across the board. So you need almost a construct that creates like a manager of managers, a hierarchical structure, which would allow you to be more intelligent in terms of how you place those, how you manage that. And so when you ask the question about what's the secret sauce between the two, well this is exactly where EnterpriseWeb brings in that capability to analyze information, be more intelligent about it. And what we do is provide an abstraction of the cloud layer so that they can, you know, then do the right job in terms of making sure that it's appropriate and it's consistent. >> Consistency is key. Guys, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure really digging through EnterpriseWeb. >> Thank you. >> What you're doing >> with Red Hat. How you're helping the organization transform and Supercloud, we can't forget Supercloud. (Dave Vellante laughs) >> Fight Supercloud. Guys, thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you so much Lisa. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys. >> Very nice. >> Lisa: We really appreciate it. >> For our guests and for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage coming to you live from MWC 23. We'll be back after a short break.

>>live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Q covering I f s World Conference 2019. Brought to you by I >>f. S, I say, What a minute. I didn't cash it. Everybody welcome to I f s World 2019. You watching the Cube? The leader in live tech coverage on day Volante with my co host, Paul Galen. Marty Martin is here. She is the president of the service management division of I F s and C e o of work wave. Marty, good to see you. >>Yeah, it's great to be here. I'm so excited. >>A lot of action going on. You guys. Service management, Field Service management particular. You guys had an acquisition today. We're gonna talk about Let's start with your role you came in and 2017 with the >>pretty acting. Actually, >>2018 finalized the acquisition. I think they announce it in 2017. So tell us about how you came in and where you're at today with >>Certainly. So work wave the company. I lied. Join the effects family in 2017. Darren Ruess, who joined I f s in April 2018 recruited me into form a global business unit around service in August of 2018 and the reason why we did this is service isn't only a part of our economies all over the world, but it's a super great growth area that almost every business can go after in in progress both revenue and margins. So we had a lot of great software products, and we really wanted to improve our go to market around this. >>So why, why all of a sudden today, this talk about service management? Why's it becoming so hard? I mean, everybody's always been focused on customer service, but why this service management generally and field service management while the buzz. >>So first off, you've had the evolution of a number of line of business applications and service certainly has been a part of maintenance organizations or break fix where you're going out in repairing thing. What we're realizing now when you talk about service ization, how o E EMS air building what's called aftermarket revenue? There is literally $100 billion of revenue that you can get from that you look, we had Melissa did a nano from Souza. If you think about open source software, they make money from sirve ties, ing, open source software and the products. You look at apple how they're doing APs. So people are starting to realize that service is an engine for brand loyalty, customer experience, not just a cost center. How it used to be, what the >>customers do. Ah, companies do wrong with service one of the areas where they tend to have the greatest inefficiencies where you can help him. >>So first off, I'd say that often in the C suite, unless they're pure place service companies. They don't understand how transformative service is and how important it is to their brand. Many times now, if you have digital enablement of a new customer, the first time they see a face of your brand might be your service technician. So getting the awareness of the C suite is Step one, because we want to start talking about outcomes that grow revenue and profits and getting them to invest in service. So you know, many times will say, Oh, I want to do a C. R M project. I want to do an E r P project. That's certainly things were good at it. Here I a fest, but we can coach them through how you take the market opportunity for your company and service enabled by our technology and transform. Tomorrow I'll be with Accenture, one of our many great partners, and we're talking about adapting the business, the service transformation, sometimes digitally, sometimes with workflow transformation. But that opportunity and service is huge and almost never. There's no company I know of that's taking 100% of their service market share. That's the difference, especially in slower growth. Asset manufacturing are more mature verticals. >>So I was here last night walking the floor, and I went to the extent you Booth, you know, anytime you see, except you're in a show like this. Okay, Censure. You think Large company Global. I was actually quite impressed a little bit surprised to see you know, their presence here because they they go where the money is, right? And so my specific question is, think, except you think big companies. But you guys obviously focused on what range of companies smaller midsize company. So what's the landscape? Looked like? What's the difference is between sort of smaller and larger companies, >>so that's a great question. I'll take it in part So if you think about a neck censure definitely they looked a large. I also have had meetings with the Lloyd McKinsey Cap gem and I dxc etcetera Also tcs Tech Mahindra which a little bit or more telco focused. So if you think about at the very large and you have telco utilities, large manufacturing O e ems that our customers and definitely the customers I'm pursuing Maur with this focus But we also with work with go down to the S and B We had panels also of, for example, female owners of franchises and also males as well that are creating new service businesses and they're starting maybe with one truck in out providing service. So the fact that we can handle not only the breath and depth of complex service needs, but through work wave we also can encourage the small service businesses to reach their full potential is fantastic. And you know that makes me excited every day. And part of why I focused on service specifically is you are delighting customers. You are the face of a brand and you're making a difference. It's not something that s 02 is esoteric. This is about really value that we're delivering, >>always interested in the dynamics of serving the SNB market >>because one of >>these small companies don't really have that. Maybe family owned there found her own. They don't really put a lot of value on technology. How >>do you >>get in the door? How do you convince them that automating the service function is actually worth the investment? >>Well, first off, I'd say that even the big companies are struggling to go paperless. Okay, so, you know, I think some of the challenges we see survive, if you will, big to small, especially when you look globally in different countries. What have you. But the approach we take in the S and B is that we want to be a software as a service provider, and we were to really handle everything they need in their business. So everything from how they grow leads how they have c r m type functionality. How, then they're delivering service, how they're cross selling service, how they're billing service. So at the at the S M B level, we're putting that kind of all in one technology and there's really not that much integration or I T Service is around that right. We want it to be easy and fast, etcetera, as you go more into the mid market and then definitely into the enterprise. Then you start getting more complexity. You get more I t service's integrations, more configurable ity, sometimes even some customized software. So there is a definitely a difference in the complexity. But the fundamentals of what a service business needs really isn't that much different to your >>customers that you mentioned customize and you guys were SAS space. That's one of the text that we'd like to sort of explore a little bit. A lot >>of >>times SAS companies want to avoid, you know, custom mods. But at the same time, you guys are trying to offer a choice. So help us square that circle. How do you What's the conversation like with customers in terms of how you advise them, You guys obviously do a lot of deep functionality, you know? How do you sort of advise them whether or not to go heavily custom or try to go out of the box? >>Certainly. So in the true, I'd say the small business of a medium you start getting some crossover, but in the small business, Absolutely avoid customization because you won't be able to stay evergreen. It's going to be too hard to maintain. You don't have the subject matter experts, et cetera, so that's really a truce. Ask that from a community. A product engagement. We need to be driving the partnership with the customers that they can use a software out of the box in ways that matter to them. As you start getting into the mid market and especially the enterprise, then it becomes more of a choice, right? How much money do you have to spend? How robust is your organization and set trek? And in general, I advise customers if they care about evergreen software, et cetera. If they care about ease of upgrades, don't customize that Being said, we recognize sometimes in the field with your brand experience Custom mobile. You may need to customize a little bit, so it's Ah, say, a chicken and an egg. You have to weigh the benefits of the costs, and that's what we work through with our >>customers. Specifically morning. What's the upgrade cycle like? There's a customer having the choice Thio upgrade at a particular time, Or do they have a window? >>So it varies primarily, there's a few exceptions, but in general, with the work way, Family of products is true SAS. So it's almost like you're Apple Phone. We pushed the upgrade and you have to take it. Okay, And that's the true SAS model at I. F. S. And this is something Darren talked about in his keynote. We pride ourselves on offering choice. So even though we do have regular release cycles, we encourage customers to upgrade regularly. They have the choice on when they take upgrades and also how they deploy. We have some markets with things like data, privacy and what have you that they may, for that reason or for other reasons, go on premise even still today. So we give them the choice on how they upgrade as well as where they host. >>I'm fascinated by your product line. You have products for pest control. H V. A. C. Plumbing cleaning service is long and landscape. How different are these industries really in terms of their their automation needs? >>Well, I'll tell you one of the personal factors that Darren wanted to make sure I was comfortable with was multitasking. And that definitely is the case, because an I f s, we serve five key industries. So if you think about manufacturing utilities, telco service providers and Andy Okay, that's more at the enterprise level. If you think then when you go toe work wave. Those verticals that you mentioned are all the ones we service at work wave, and they are different. So you know what? Work wave. It's primarily service industries where you're going into ah, home and a little bit The commercial aspect and I effects were also doing more some heavy industries, some very large asset base, things like that. So I like to think about it as a product I service consumer based service. And then you can also differentiate across verticals with what are called high value assets versus, you know, Mork consumer size assets. >>So what >>are >>the one of the key technology enablers that are driving service management today? I mean, obviously, cloud, we talked about sas a lot of push on you X and customer experience, but what other key ones? >>So all the three that you mentioned mobile is huge. You know, Pete and even today, like I run. I work mainly from my phone, and that's really what people want. They want efficient work flows that are configurable on mobile, tied to the customer, the asset, the business. And that's an area that we're continuing to make investment. We also try to prioritize how we bring in the new technology trends into service. Because every technology trend that you see has applicable ity and service supply chain and how you run spare parts specially globally, you can see applications for Blockchain augmented emerged Reality how you can connect the field tech with an expert resource or remote resource to the consumer. That is obvious, right? So you talked about the enabling technologies like Cloud, how we're thinking about data platforms and Data's the currency. Of all of that, we need to d'oh. His service is really about a an execution engine, right? Because to deliver a customer experience that makes people come back to your brand. To purchase Maur, you need great service, so any time somebody talks about customer experience, but they don't talk about service. I want to say you're really naive because you can just get the customer. You have to delight the customer. >>Uh, the, uh, there's a lot of interesting technology going on now in the area. Fleet Management making fleets more efficient How does that figure into the service is? You offer. >>So Fleet management is an important part, and it's one that you have a very tangible return on investment when you deploy route management route optimization, fleet management. So you have the aspects that are very tangible, relate to how do you get the person or the truck where it needs to be when it needs to be okay, and that's pretty well understood. Then how do you get the most efficient schedule that minimizes miles driven gas, used et cetera? And then, of course, you also are thinking about health and safety. There's some cool things now that you can partner that if you have these fleet technologies installed in a way that is integrated in your service business, you can actually get lower insurance premiums, right? So it's not just the conventional use. Cases were starting to think in this kind of gig economy, how you can also be thinking about bringing in Maura what's called a contingent workforce. So if you have surge capacity in a certain period or you want to just do more third party service, probably your appliances. You know they're not the employees, if you will, of a g e or a world polar and LG right there Probably a contingent workforce. And that's a model that's also evolving. But to do Fleet Management across say, contractors, not just employees is an area that were thinking more and more led by some of the uber ization, if you will, of the of the marketplace >>right up against the clock, Marty. But to last questions You made an acquisition today, Vashti Uh, yeah, uh, I thought of it as a tuck in acquisitions, although Darren essentially sort of said, it's gonna make you the leader now in service management. Um And then I want to understand how you guys differentiate from some of the big whales. >>So, you know, overall, we're on track to be about 700 revenue this year in service management. We're working to get to 200 million, right? So this year will probably be around maybe 1/5 50 ish per se. Don't quote me on that check with our coms team, but the point being is that we have the ability to use these tuck in acquisitions and service to accelerate our lead, not just from a revenue perspective, which is what we were just talking about. But from a product perspective, you might have followed Salesforce acquiring Click. That means we are the only independent. Aye, aye. Optimization engine that is field tested. Battle ready. So that's great. This s t a is how we consolidate our dominance and complex service. So what darren was speaking to is not on Lee the service management segment of our revenue and how we continue to accelerate over the oracles in the S a. P s and the service maxes et cetera of the world. But how we take what we're already dominant in and really put the hammer down. Honesty is part of that. >>Your differentiation then if I infers, is focus. Um, you're you're deep customer customs agent deep >>domain expertise. Yeah, So really, when you think about a i optimization, which drives a ton of business value and the ability to handle the complex service cases that then drive business outcomes and outcomes based service models, we are number one and s dea tucks into that, even though it is very strategic on how we position ourselves with leadership and service. >>All right, Challenger becomes number one, Marty. Thanks very much. All right, Keep it right, everybody. Dave A lot with Paul Galen. You're watching the Cube from Boston Mass. I f s world 2019 right back.

(cheerful music) >> Voiceover: Live, from Los Angeles, it's theCUBE covering Open Source Summit North America 2017, brought to you by the Linux Foundation and Red Hat. >> Okay, welcome back here when we're here live with theCUBE coverage of Linux Foundation Open Source Summit North America in Los Angeles, I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, our next guest is Arpit Joshipura, General Manager of Networking the Linux Foundation. Welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you, nice to be here again. >> Always good to talk networking, as Stu and I always say networking is probably the most active audience in our community, because at the end of the day, everything rolls downhill to networking when the people complain. It's like "where the hell's my WiFi, "where's the patent latency," networking SDN was supposed to solve all that. Stu, we're still talking about networking. When are we going to fix the network? It's always in the network, but important. In all seriousness, a lot of action continues and innovation to networking. >> Absolutely. >> What's the update? >> Update is very exciting. So first of all, I can confidently say that open source networking, not just networking, but open source networking is now mainstream. And it's mainstream in the telcos, in the carriers, service providers, it's getting there in the enterprise. And Linux Foundation is really proud to host eight of the top 10 projects that are in open source networking. ONAP, ODL, OPNFV, Fido, you know, the list goes on. And we're really excited about each of these projects, so good momentum. >> We've been seeing and talking about it too, we all, joking aside, the intro there, but in all seriousness we've been saying, we get better the network, it's finally happening. Has it been a maturization of the network itself, has it been industry force and what have been the forces of innovations been? OpenStack has done some great work, they're not getting a lot of love these days with some people, but still we've seen a lot of production workflows at OpenStack, OpenStack's still there, rocking and rolling. New projects are onboarding, you see the telcos getting business models around digital. What's the drivers? Why is network mainstream now? >> I think it's a very simple answer to that, and that is before 5G and IoT hit the market, network better be automated. It's a very simple requirement. And the reason is very self-explanatory, right? You can't have an IoT device on the call on hold while you get your service up (laughs). So, it's IoT, right? And it is the same thing on 5G, a lot of new use cases around cars or around low latency apps. You need automation, and in order to have automation, a carrier or a solution provider goes through a simple journey. Am I virtualized? Yes or no? Am I using the building blocks of SDN and NFV? Yes or no? And the third, which is now reality, which is, am I using open source to do it? Yes, and I'm going to do it. And that's the driver right? I mean it's all- >> Automation, when you started throwing out a lot of TLAs, you talk about SDN and NFV, we've got a four-letter acronym that we need to talk about. The Open Network Automation Platform. Why don't you bring your audience up to speed, what that is, the news that you have this week. >> Absolutely, so ONAP was launched earlier in 2017. It's a combination of two open source projects, ECOMP and Open-O, and we wanted to bring the community together versus sort of fragmented, and because our end users are asking for a harmonized solution. So we brought it together. It was launched earlier this year as we talked about, but the most significant thing is it has received tremendous support from the member community. So at OSS today, we just announced that Vodafone has joined as a platinum member. They will be on our board, and as you know Vodafone is one of the top providers. So if you add up all the subscribers that are being influenced by ONAP, they come to 55%. So out of the 4.5 billion subscribers that exist, more than 55% will be influenced by ONAP and the work that happens. That includes China Mobile, China Telecom, China Unicom, all of the China, Bell Canada, AT&T obviously who sort of was the founding member, Orange, Reliance Jio from India. So we've got, Comcast joined earlier in the quarter, so we've got cable companies, carriers, all joining. And to be very honest, I'll probably just give you the list of all the networking vendors that are participating here, and I've list Amdocs, Cisco, Ericsson, GigaSpaces, Hua Wei, IBM, Intel, Nokia, Tech Mahindra, VMware, ZTE, Juniper, you know, you name it. >> Arpit, I mean the long story short is-- >> Just cause they're involved does that mean they're actually working-- >> They're active. Active. >> we're not going to be critical on this. >> But come on, even Cisco's involved in the open source stuff, right? >> They've very active. >> We've had lots of guests on from Cisco, Lulu Tucker's been on many many times. We know the open source there, but it used to be, networking was very proprietary. Now, it wasn't SDNs going to totally change everything, it's lots of different pieces, lots of different projects. It kind of felt like the river slowly wearing down the mountain as to this transition from proprietary to open source. >> I think what happened is if you just look at four years back, it was proprietary. Not because people liked it, that was the only game in town. When the open source industry, especially in the networking, and this is a hundred year old industry, telecom right? When it came in in the desegregated manner, hardware and software separated, control plane separated from data plane, all of that happened, and what happened suddenly was each components started becoming mature. So they're production-ready components, and what ONAP and what Linux Foundation is intending to do this year is trying to bring all the components into a system solution. So that it's easy to deploy, and all you have to do is point, click a service, everything below it will all be automated and integrated. >> Well the telcos are under a lot of pressure. I mean this has been a decade run, over-the-top they've been struggling with that from years ago, decade ago or more. But now they're getting their act together. We're seeing some signs, even VMworld. Stu, Pat Gelsinger said 5G's the next big kahuna in networking the next 20 years, you can validate it. This is going to be a 20 year changeover, so as the Linux Foundation, which essentially is the organic growth engine for this community, what do you guys see in that 20 years? Cause I see 5G's going to create all these connection points. IoT is going to be massive. That's going to increase the surface area for potential attacks. We're seeing a networking paradigm that's moving from old guards Cisco, Juniper, and some of the names you mentioned. They got to make some changes. How are they adjusting? What's going on so the next 20 years we don't have more conflict and more identity politics. >> I'll tell you one thing, I come from a vendor community, right? So I really appreciate the work they're doing. Part of the reason you would have seen in the past a vendor dragging their feet is because of fragmentation in the community. You as a vendor do not know where to put your resources, people, and where you put your money. What we're doing at the Linux Foundation is starting to harmonize all that. And once you do that and you have enough of a scale and enough of a community, there is no shortage of people and developers that the vendors are contributing to. >> John: What's some of the proof points that you can share? >> Okay, so ONAP, from start to now, about 1100 Wiki members already. That means 1100 unique developers are joining the project. Over 50 members. We ran out of VMs, I mean it's like that has not happened in any project for over five years. We had to fire up people more. So you can see that... And this is not just, these are competitors, but if you step back and look at it, they're competitors from an end user perspective, but they're solving the common problem in which they don't get any money. They don't make any money. These are things that absolutely need to happen. The plumbing, the infrastructure, the orchestration, the control layer, the data plane layer, all of that need to just happen, it should just work. And let them differentiate on top. We are actively seeing almost everybody participating significantly. >> Stu, let's hear your thoughts on this. You guys are both, I view you guys both as experts and influencers in this networking ecosystem, so I got to ask you both a question. CNCF has gotten a lot of traction with funding, sponsorships are off the charts, you're seeing massive tractions, Stu, where you also see that KubeCon Cloud Native, but you have native clouds, I call them native clouds, in Amazon and then soon-to-be enterprises that want to run software-defined networking. So the question is do you see the same kind of support going for your group as CNCF's getting? Is it just fashionable at this point, CNCF? Why isn't the networking getting as much love at least from a sponsorship standpoint. >> Let's define love. So if you define love as the 2017 ONS, which is our largest networking summit, we grew that 10%, everything was off the charts. The feedback, the content-- >> John: The attendance growth or sponsorships? >> Attendance, sponsorships, CFPs were 5x oversubscribed. Call for papers, for submissions, 5x oversubscribed. So we had a hard time picking the best of the best. ONS 2018 is going to be here in LA, we've already started getting requests on, you know, so we're the same boat. >> So you feel good. >> We feel good. >> Not about this, like you're winning. >> No, but I tell you-- >> There'll be positive numbers we know from the hype scale horses, Stu, answer your question and then maybe you guys can comment. So is it a matter of that there's more buzz in positioning involved in the hype side of CNCF now, and there's just meat and potatoes being done in the networking world, Stu? Cause you and I both know, if no one has nothing to say, they've got to kind of market themselves. >> So John, think back to five years ago, how much hype and buzz there was around SDN. John, you and I interviewed like Martin Casado, he just bought for $1.4 billion, all these startups, lots of VC investment, so I think we're further down the maturity curve. Now networking's always-- >> John: People going to work, they're doing their job. >> It's real, it's in production-- >> It's funny-- >> It's not parb, I always say when you move from PowerPoint to production, real things happen. >> I always say, if there's going to be sizzle, I better see some steak on the grill, so what's happening is steak is cooking right now. >> And John, so one of the things we say, networking, no offense to all my friends in networking, networking is never sexy. >> Oh, come on Stu, networking is totally sexy. >> I always say it's cool again. >> Networking has never lost its edge. >> It absolutely is majorly important, but Arpit, take us in, you know, Kubernetes is hot, containers get a lot of buzz and everything. Networking, critical piece of making sure that this works, feels like, I think back to the virtualization days, it took us 10 years to kind of solve those things that that abstraction layer broke. It feels like networking is further ahead than it was, it's moving faster, we understand it's not something that's just kind of oh we'll let the networking guys get to it eventually. Networking and security, which often has that networking tie are front and center now. >> Very good point, and I think what you have to also sort of step back and look at is what are the problems that need to be solved from an end user perspective? So the hardest networking problems at the data plane control layers, check. Next big problem that remain to be solved was orchestration, data analytics, and things like that. Check, solve, with ONAP. Now the next problems that need to be solved are containerization of enterprise app, which is where Kubernetes and... and then how does containerization work with networking? That's all the C&I, the interfaces. I would say next year, you will start to see the interworking and the blend of these "hot projects" where they can all come together. >> Stu, you were there in 2010, I looked right in the camera and said to Dave Vellante, storage is not as sexy. And Dave called it snoreage, cause snoreage is boring. (Stu laughs) >> And at that time, the storage industry went on a run. And we well-documented that. Sexy is, networking is sexy. And I think that we-- >> I call it cool. >> And I just tweeted, 25g is a good indicator of a 20 year run, and networking is the big kahuna as Pat Gelsinger said in IoT, so I think, Stu, I think it's going to be very apparent, sexy. I just don't see a lot of amplifications, so you don't see a lot of people marketing the sizzle. I think, being done I would agree, but Stu, there's more buzz and hype on the CNCF side than networking. >> That's fair. I think it is always as you said, it's the initial phase of any project that gets a lot of clicks and a lot of interest, and people want to know about it. A lot of the buzz is around, just awareness. The classic marketing cycle, and I think we're past that. It was therefore ONAP in January, we're past that. >> Alright, so here's the question, final question. So the steak is coming off the grill in our metaphor here, what are people-- what is that product, what's happening, what is the big deliverable right now from a networking standpoint that people can bet on and know that they can cross the bridge into the future with it. >> You will see a visible difference, you as in an end user, an enterprise, or a residential consumer. You will see a significant difference in terms of how you get services. It's as simple as that. Why? Because it's all automated. Network on-demand, disaster recovery, video conference services. Why did over-the-top players, why were they so successful? If you need a Gmail ID, you go in, you get one. It's right there. Try getting a T1 line five years ago. That would be six weeks, six months. So with the automation in place, the models are converging. >> So provisionings are automatically happening-- >> Provisionings, service, and then the thing that you will not see but you will see in the services impact, is the closed loop automation that has all the analytics built in. Huge, huge. I mean, network is the richest source, and by the way, I'll come back next year and I'll tell you why we are cool again. Because all of a sudden, it's like oh my god look at that data and the analytics that the network is giving me. What can I do with it? You can do AI, you can do machine learning, you can do all these things. >> Well, we're looking forward to it, the eye of the storm is kind of happening now I think in networking, Stu and I always have debates about this, cause we see a lot of great action. Question is, let's see the proof points, you guys are doing some good work. Thanks for sharing, Arpit, really appreciate, General Manager of Networking at Linux Foundation. It's theCUBE, more live coverage from Los Angeles, the Open Source Summit North America. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, be back with more live coverage after this short break. (techno music)