>> live from San Francisco, California. It's the Q covering the IBM Chief Data Officer Summit brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Fisherman's Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco. Everybody, my name is David wanted. You're watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage, you ought to events. We extract the signal from the noise. We're here. The IBM CDO event. This is the 10th anniversary of this event. Caitlin Hallford is here. She's the director of a I Accelerator and client success at IBM. Caitlin, great to see you again. Wow. 10 years. Amazing. They and Carlo Apple Apple Glace e is here. Who is the program director for data and a I at IBM. Because you again, my friend. Thanks for coming on to Cuba. Lums. Wow, this is 10 years, and I think the Cube is covered. Probably eight of these now. Yeah, kind of. We bounce between San Francisco and Boston to great places for CEOs. Good places to have intimate events, but and you're taking it global. I understand. Congratulations. Congratulations on the promotion. Thank you. Going. Thank you so much. >> So we, as you know well are well, no. We started our chief date officer summits in San Francisco here, and it's gone 2014. So this is our 10th 1 We do two a year. We found we really have a unique cohort of clients. The join us about 100 40 in San Francisco on the spring 140 in Boston in the fall, and we're here celebrating the 10th 10 Summit. >> So, Carlo, talk about your role and then let's get into how you guys, you know, work together. How you hand the baton way we'll get to the client piece. >> So I lead the Data Center League team, which is a group within our product development, working side by side with clients really to understand their needs as well developed, use cases on our platform and tools and make sure we are able to deliver on those. And then we work closely with the CDO team, the global CEO team on best practices, what patterns they're seeing from an architecture perspective. Make sure that our platforms really incorporating that stuff. >> And if I recall the data science that lead team is its presales correct and could >> be posted that it could, it really depends on the client, so it could be prior to them buying software or after they bought the software. If they need the help, we can also come in. >> Okay, so? So it can be a for pay service. Is that correct or Yeah, we can >> before pay. Or sometimes we do it based on just our relation with >> It's kind of a mixed then. Right? Okay, so you're learning the client's learning, so they're obviously good, good customers. And so you want to treat him right >> now? How do you guys work >> together? Maybe Caitlin, you can explain. The two organizations >> were often the early testers, early adopters of some of the capabilities. And so what we'll do is we'll test will literally will prove it out of skill internally using IBM itself as an example. And then, as we build out the capability, work with Carlo and his team to really drive that in a product and drive that into market, and we share a lot of client relationships where CEOs come to us, they're want advice and counsel on best practices across the organization. And they're looking for latest applications to deploy deploy known environments and so we can capture a lot of that feedback in some of the market user testing proved that out. Using IBM is an example and then work with you to really commercialized and bring it to market in the most efficient manner. >> You were talking this morning. You had a picture up of the first CDO event. No Internet, no wife in the basement. I love it. So how is this evolved from a theme standpoint? What do you What are the patterns? Sure. So when >> we started this, it was really a response. Thio primarily financial service is sector regulatory requirements, trying to get data right to meet those regulatory compliance initiatives. Defensive posture certainly weren't driving transformation within their enterprises. And what I've seen is a couple of those core elements are still key for us or data governance and data management. And some of those security access controls are always going to be important. But we're finding his videos more and more, have expanded scope of responsibilities with the enterprise they're looked at as a leader. They're no longer sitting within a c i o function there either appear or, you know, working in partnership with, and they're driving enterprise wide, you know, initiatives for the for their enterprises and organizations, which has been great to see. >> So we all remember when you know how very and declared data science was gonna be the number one job, and it actually kind of has become. I think I saw somewhere, maybe in Glass door was anointed that the top job, which is >> kind of cool to see. So what are you seeing >> with customers, Carlo? You guys, you have these these blueprints, you're now applying them, accelerating different industries. You mentioned health care this morning. >> What are some >> of those industry accelerators And how is that actually coming to fruition? Yes. >> So some of the things we're seeing is speaking of financial clients way go into a lot of them. We do these one on one engagements, we build them from custom. We co create these engineering solutions, our platform, and we're seeing patterns, patterns around different use cases that are coming up over and over again. And the one thing about data science Aye, aye. It's difficult to develop a solution because everybody's date is different. Everybody's business is different. So what we're trying to do is build these. We can't just build a widget that's going to solve the problem, because then you have to force your data into that, and we're seeing that that doesn't really work. So building a platform for these clients. But these accelerators, which are a set of core code source code notebooks, industry models in terms a CZ wells dashboards that allow them to quickly build out these use cases around a turn or segmentation on dhe. You know some other models we can grab the box provide the models, provide the know how with the source code, as well as a way for them to train them, deploy them and operationalize them in an organization. That's kind of what we're doing. >> You prime the pump >> prime minute pump, we call them there right now, we're doing client in eights for wealth management, and we're doing that, ref SS. And they come right on the box of our cloudpack for data platform. You could quickly click and install button, and in there you'll get the sample data files. You get no books. You get industry terms, your governance capability, as well as deployed dashboards and models. >> So talk more about >> cloudpack for data. What's inside of that brought back the >> data is a collection of micro Service's Andi. It includes a lot of things that we bring to market to help customers with their journey things from like data ingestion collection to all the way Thio, eh? I model development from building your models to deploying them to actually infusing them in your business process with bias detection or integration way have a lot of capability. Part >> of it's actually tooling. It's not just sort of so how to Pdf >> dualism entire platform eso. So the platform itself has everything you need an organization to kind of go from an idea to data ingestion and governance and management all the way to model training, development, deployment into integration into your business process. >> Now Caitlin, in the early days of the CDO, saw CDO emerging in healthcare, financialservices and government. And now it's kind of gone mainstream to the point where we had Mark Clare on who's the head of data neighborhood AstraZeneca. And he said, I'm not taking the CDO title, you know, because I'm all about data enablement and CDO. You know, title has sort of evolved. What have you seen? It's got clearly gone mainstream Yep. What are you seeing? In terms of adoption of that, that role and its impact on organizations, >> So couple of transit has been interesting both domestically and internationally as well. So we're seeing a lot of growth outside of the U. S. So we did our first inaugural summit in Tokyo. In Japan, there's a number of day leaders in Japan that are really eager to jump start their transformation initiatives. Also did our first Dubai summit. Middle East and Africa will be in South Africa next month at another studio summit. And what I'm seeing is outside of North America a lot of activity and interest in creating an enabling studio light capability. Data Leader, Like, um, and some of these guys, I think we're gonna leapfrog ahead. I think they're going to just absolutely jump jump ahead and in parallel, those traditional industries, you know, there's a new federal legislation coming down by year end for most federal agencies to appoint a chief data officer. So, you know, Washington, D. C. Is is hopping right now, we're getting a number of agencies requesting advice and counsel on how to set up the office how to be successful I think there's some great opportunity in those traditional industries and also seeing it, you know, outside the U. S. And cross nontraditional, >> you say >> Jump ahead. You mean jump ahead of where maybe some of the U. S. >> Absolute best? Absolutely. And I'm >> seeing a trend where you know, a lot of CEOs they're moving. They're really closer to the line of business, right? They're moving outside of technology, but they have to be technology savvy. They have a team of engineers and data scientists. So there is really an important role in every organization that I'm seeing for every client I go to. It's a little different, but you're right, it's it's definitely up and coming. Role is very important for especially for digital transformation. >> This is so good. I was gonna say one of the ways they are teens really, partner Well, together, I think is weaken source some of these in terms of enabling that you know, acceleration and leap frog. What are those pain points or use cases in traditional data management space? You know, the metadata. So I think you talk with Steven earlier about how we're doing some automated meditate a generation and really using a i t. O instead of manually having to label and tag that we're able to generate about 85% of our labels internally and drive that into existing product. Carlos using. And our clients are saying, Hey, we're spending, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars and we've got teams of massive teams of people manual work. And so we're able to recognize it, adopts something like that, press internally and then work with you guys >> actually think of every detail developer out there that has to go figure out what this date is. If you have a tool which we're trying to cooperate the platform based on the guidance from the CDO Global CEO team, we can automatically create that metadata are likely ingested and provide into platform so that data scientists can start to get value out >> of it quickly. So we heard Martin Schroeder talked about digital trade and public policy, and he said there were three things free flow of data. Unless it doesn't make sense like personal information prevent data localization mandates, yeah, and then protect algorithms and source code, which is an I P protection thing. So I'm interested in how your customers air Reacting to that framework, I presume the protect the algorithms and source code I p. That's near and dear right? They want to make sure that you're not taking models and then giving it to their competitors. >> Absolutely. And we talk about that every time we go in there and we work on projects. What's the I p? You know, how do we manage this? And you know, what we bring to the table with the accelerators is to help them jump start them right, even though that it's kind of our a p we created, but we give it to them and then what they derive from that when they incorporate their data, which is their i p, and create new models, that is then their i. P. So those air complicated questions and every company is a little different on what they're worried about with that, so but many banks, we give them all the I P to make sure that they're comfortable and especially in financial service is but some other spaces. It's very competitive. And then I was worried about it because it's, ah, known space. A lot of the algorithm for youse are all open source. They're known algorithms, so there's not a lot of problem there. >> It's how you apply them. That's >> exactly right how you apply them in that boundary of what >> is P, What's not. It's kind of >> fuzzy, >> and we encourage our clients a lot of times to drive that for >> the >> organisation, for us, internally, GDP, our readiness, it was occurring to the business unit level functional area. So it was, you know, we weren't where we needed to be in terms of achieving compliance. And we have the CEO office took ownership of that across the business and got it where we needed to be. And so we often encourage our clients to take ownership of something like that and use it as an opportunity to differentiate. >> And I talked about the whole time of clients. Their data is impor onto them. Them training models with that data for some new making new decisions is their unique value. Prop In there, I'd be so so we encourage them to make sure they're aware that don't just tore their data in any can, um, service out there model because they could be giving away their intellectual property, and it's important. Didn't understand that. >> So that's a complicated one. Write the piece and the other two seem to be even tougher. And some regards, like the free flow of data. I could see a lot of governments not wanting the free flow of data, but and the client is in the middle. OK, d'oh. Government is gonna adjudicate. What's that conversation like? The example that he gave was, maybe was interpolate. If it's if it's information about baggage claims, you can you can use the Blockchain and crypt it and then only see the data at the other end. So that was actually, I thought, a good example. Why do you want to restrict that flow of data? But if it's personal information, keep it in country. But how is that conversation going with clients? >> Leo. Those can involve depending on the country, right and where you're at in the industry. >> But some Western countries are strict about that. >> Absolutely. And this is why we've created a platform that allows for data virtualization. We use Cooper nannies and technologies under the covers so that you can manage that in different locations. You could manage it across. Ah, hybrid of data centers or hybrid of public cloud vendors. And it allows you to still have one business application, and you can kind of do some of the separation and even separation of data. So there's there's, there's, there's an approach there, you know. But you gotta do a balance. Balance it. You gotta balance between innovation, digital transformation and how much you wanna, you know, govern so governs important. And then, you know. But for some projects, we may want to just quickly prototype. So there's a balance there, too. >> Well, that data virtualization tech is interesting because it gets the other piece, which was prevent data localization mandates. But if there is a mandate and we know that some countries aren't going to relax that mandate, you have, ah, a technical solution for that >> architecture that will support that. And that's a big investment for us right now. And where we're doing a lot of work in that space. Obviously, with red hat, you saw partnership or acquisition. So that's been >> really Yeah, I heard something about that's important. That's that's that's a big part of Chapter two. Yeah, all right. We'll give you the final world Caitlyn on the spring. I guess it's not spring it. Secondly, this summer, right? CDO event? >> No, it's been agreed. First day. So we kicked off. Today. We've got a full set of client panel's tomorrow. We've got some announcements around our meta data that I mentioned. Risk insights is a really cool offering. We'll be talking more about. We also have cognitive support. This is another one. Our clients that I really wanted to help with some of their support back in systems. So a lot of exciting announcements, new thought leadership coming out. It's been a great event and looking forward to the next next day. >> Well, I love the fact >> that you guys have have tied data science into the sea. Sweet roll. You guys have done a great job, I think, better than anybody in terms of of, of really advocating for the chief data officer. And this is a great event because it's piers talking. Appears a lot of private conversations going on. So congratulations on all the success and continued success worldwide. >> Thank you so much. Thank you, Dave. >> You welcome. Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. Ready for this short break. We have a panel coming up. This is David. Dante. You're >> watching the Cube from IBM CDO right back.

>> Announcer: Live from downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering IBM Chief Data Officers Strategy Summit 2018, brought to you by IBM. >> We're back in San Francisco, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, and we're here covering exclusive coverage of IBM's Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit. This is the summit, as I said, they book in at each coast, San Francisco and Boston. Intimate, a lot of senior practitioners, chief data officers, data folks, people who love data. Caitlyn Halferty is back. She's the Client Engagement Executive and the Chief Data Officer office at IBM. Great. And, Allen Crane, Vice President at USAA. >> Thank you. >> Good to see you. Thanks for coming on. All right. >> Thanks for having us. >> You're welcome. Well, good day today, as I said, a very intimate crowd. You're here as a sort of defacto CDO, learning, sharing, connecting with peers. Set up your role, Allen. Tell us about that. >> At USA, we've got a distributed data and analytics organization where we have centralized functions in our hub, and then each of the lines of business have their own data offices. I happen to have responsibility for all the different ways that our members interact with us, so about 100 million phone calls a year, about a couple billion internet and digital sessions a year, most of that is on mobile, and always lookin' at the ways that we can give back time to our membership, as well as our customer service reps, who we call our member service reps, so that they can serve our members better. The faster and more predictive we can be with being able to understand our members better and prompt our MSRs with the right information to serve them, then the more they can get on to the actual value of that conversation. >> A lot of data. So, one of the things that Inderpal talked about the very first time I met him, in Boston, he talked about the Five Pillars, and the first one was you have to understand as a CDO, how your organization gets value out of data. You said that could be direct monetization or, I guess, increased revenue, cut costs. That's value. >> Right. >> That's right. >> That's the starting point. >> Right. >> So, how did you start? >> Well, actually, it was the internal monetization. So, first off, I want to say USA never sells any of our member data, so we don't think of monetization in that framework, but we do think of it terms of how do we give something that's even more precious than money back to our company and to our members and the MSRs? And, that is really that gift of time. By removing friction from the system, we've been able to reduce calls per member, through digitization activities, and reduced transfers and reduced misdirects by over 10% every year. We're doing work with AI and machine learning to be able to better anticipate what the member is calling about, so that we can get them to the right place at the right time to the right set member service representatives. And, so all these things have resulted in, not just time savings but, obviously, that translates directly to bottom line savings, but at the end of the day, it's about increasing that member service level, increasing your responsiveness, increasing the speed that you're answering the phone, and ultimately increasing that member satisfaction. >> Yeah, customer satisfaction, lowers churn rates, that's a form of monetization, >> Absolutely. >> so it's hard dollars to the CFO, right? >> Absolutely, yeah. >> All right, let's talk about the role of the CDO. This is something that we touched on earlier. >> Yes. >> We're bringing it home here. >> Yes. >> Last segment. Where are we at with the role of the CDO? It was sort of isolated for years in regulated industries, >> Correct. >> permeated to mainstream organizations. >> Correct. >> Many of those mainstream organizations can move faster, 'cause their not regulated, so have we sort of reached parody between the regulated and the unregulated, and what do you discern there in terms of patterns and states of innovation? >> Sure. I think when we kicked off these summits in 2014, many of our CDOs came from CIO type organizations, defensive posture, you know, king of the data warehouse that we joke about, and now annuls reports of that time were saying maybe 20% of large organizations were investing in the CDO or similar individual responsible for enterprise data, and now we see analysts reports coming out to say upwards of 85, even 90%, of organizations are investing in someone responsible for that role of the CDO type. In my opening remarks this morning, I polled the room to say who's here for the first time. It was interesting, 69, 70% of attendees were joining us for the first time, and I went back, okay, who's been here last year, year before, and I said who was here from the beginning, 2014 with us, and Allen is one of the individuals who's been with us. And, as much as the topics have changed and the role has grown and the purview and scope of responsibilities, some topics have remained, our attendees tell us, they're still important, top-of-mind, and data monetization is one of those. So, we always have a panel on data monetization, and we've had some good discussions recently, that the idea of it's just the external resell, or something to do with selling data externally is one view, but really driving that internal value, and the ways you drive out those efficiencies is another perspective on it. So, fortunate to have Allen here. >> Well, we've been able to, for that very reason, we've been able to grow our team from about six or seven people five years ago to well over a hundred people, that's focused on how we inefficiency out of the system. That mere 10%, when your call-per-member reduction, when you're taking 30 million calls in the bank, you know, that's real dollars, three million calls out of the system that you can monetize like that. So, it's real value that the company sees in us, and I think that, in a sense, is really how you want to be growing in a data organization, because people see value in you, are willing to give you more, and then you start getting into those interesting conversations, if I gave you more people, could you get me more results? >> Let's talk about digital transformation and how it relates to all this. Presumably, you've got a top down initiative, the CEO says, he or she says, okay, this is important. We got to do it. Boom, there's the North Star. Let's go. What's the right regime that you're seeing? Obviously, you've got to have the executive buy-in, you've got the Chief Data Officer, you have the Chief Digital Officer, the Chief Operating Officer, the CFO's always going to be there, making sure things are on track. How are you seeing that whole thing shake out, at least in your organization? >> Well, one thing that we've been seeing is digital digitization or the digital transformation is not about just going only digital. It's how does all this work together. It can't just be an additive function, where you're still taking just as many calls and so forth, but it's got to be something that that experience online has got to do something that's transformative in your organization. So, we really look at the member all the way through that whole ecosystem, and not just through the digital lens. And, that's really where teams like ours have really been able to stitch together the member experience across all their channels that they're interacting with us, whether that's the marketing channels or the digital channels or the call channel, so that we can better understand that experience. But, it's certainly a complementary one. It can't just be an additive one. >> I wonder if we could talk about complacency, in terms of digital transformation. I talk to a lot of companies and there's discussion about digital, but you talk to a lot of people who say, well, we're doing fine. Maybe not in our industry. Insurance is one that hasn't been highly disruptive, financial services, things like aerospace. I'll be retired by the time this all, I mean, that's true, right? And, probably accurate. So, are you seeing a sense of complacency or are you seeing a sense of urgency, or a mix or both? What are you seeing, Caitlyn? >> Well, it's interesting, and people may not be aware, but I'm constantly polling our attendees to ask what are top-of-mind topics, what are you struggling with, where are you seeing successes, and digital was one that came up for this particular session, which is why tomorrow's keynote, we have our Chief Digital Officer giving the morning keynote, to show how our data office and digital office are partnering to drive transformation internally. So, at least for our perspective, in the internal side of it, we have a priority initiative, a cognitive sales advisor, and it's essentially intended to bring in disparate part of customer data, obtained through many different channels, all the ways that they engage with us, online and other, and then, deliver it through sales advisor app that empowers our digital sellers to better meet their revenue targets and impact, and develop more of a quality client relationship and improve that customer experience. So, internally, at least, it's been interesting to see one of our strongest partnerships, in terms of business unit, has been our data and digital office. They say, look, the quality of the data is at the core, you then enable our digital sellers, and our clients benefit, for a better client experience. >> Well, about a year ago, we absolutely changed the organization to align the data office with the digital office, so that reports to our executive counsel level, so their peers, that reporting to the same organization, to ensure that those strategies are connected. >> Yeah, so as Caitlyn was saying, this Chief Data Officer kind of emerged from a defensive posture of compliance, governance, data quality. The Chief Digital Officer, kind of new, oftentimes associated with marketing, more of an external, perhaps, facing role, not always. And then, the CIO, we'll say, well, wait a minute, data is the CIO's job, but, of course, the CIO, she's too busy trying to keep the lights on and make everything work. So, where does the technology organization fit? >> Well, all that's together, so when we brought all those things together at the organizational level, digital, data, and technology were all together, and even design. So, you guys are all peers, reporting into the executive committee, essentially, is that right? Yes, our data, technology, and design, and digital office are all peers reporting to the same executive level. And then, one of the other pillars that Inderpal talks about is the relationship with the line of business. So, how is that connective tissue created? Well, being on the side that is responsible for how all of our members interact, my organization touches every product, every line of business, every channel that our members are interacting with, so our data is actually shared across the organization, so right now, really my focus is to make sure that that data is as accessible as it can be across our enterprise partners, it's as democratized as it can be, it's as high as quality. And then, things that we're doing around machine learning and AI, can be enabled and plugged into from all those different lines of business. >> What does success look like in your organization? How do you know you're doing well? I mean, obviously, dropping money to the bottom line, but how are you guys measuring yourselves and setting objectives? What's your North Star? >> I think success, for me, is when you're doing a good job, to the point that people say that question, could you do more if I gave you more? That, to me, is the ultimate validation. It's how we grew as an organization. You know, we don't have to play that justification game When people are already coming to the table saying, You're doing great work. How can you do more great work? >> So, what's next for these summits? Are you doing Boston again in the fall? Is that right? Are you planning >> We are, we are, >> on doing that? >> and you know, fall of last year, we released the blueprint, and the intent was to say, hey, here's the reflection of our 18 months, internal journey, as well as all our client interactions and their feedback, and we said, we're coming back in the spring and we're showing you the detail of how we really built out these internal platforms. So, we released our hybrid on-prem Cloud showcase today, which was great, and to the level of specificity that shows that the product solutions, what we're using, the Flash Storage, some of the AI components of machine learning models. >> The cognitive systems component? >> Exactly. And then, our vision, to your question to the fall, is coming back with the public Cloud showcases. So, we're already internally doing work on our public Cloud, in particular respect to our backup, some of our very sensitive client data, as well as some initial deep learning models, so those are the three pieces we're doing in public Cloud internally, and just as we made the commitment to come back and unveil and show those detail, we want to come back in the fall and show a variety of public Cloud showcases where we're doing this work. And then, hopefully, we'll continue to partner and say, hey, here's how we're doing it. We'd love to see how you're doing it. Let's share some best practices, accelerate, build these capabilities. And, I'll say to your business benefit question, what we've found is once we've built that platform, we call it, internally, a one IBM architecture, out our platform, we can then drive critical initiatives for the enterprise. So, for us, GVPR, you know, we own delivery of GVPR readiness across the IBM corporation, working with senior executives in all of our lines of business, to make sure we get there. But, now we've got the responsibility to drive out initiatives like that cross business unit, to your question on the partnerships. >> The evolution of this event seems to be, well, it's got a lot of evangelism early on, and now it's really practical, sort of sharing, like you say, the blueprint, how to apply it, a lot of people asking questions, you know, there's different levels of maturity. Now, you guys back tomorrow? You got to panel, you guys are doing a panel on data monetization? >> We're doing a panel on data monetization tomorrow. >> Okay, and then, you've got Bob Lord and Inderpal talking about that, so perfect juxtaposition and teamwork of those two major roles. >> And, this is the first time we've really showcased the data/digital partnership and connection, so I'm excited, want to appeal to the developer viewpoint of this. So, I think it'll be a great conversation about data at the core, driving digital transformation. And then, as you said, our data monetization panel, both external efforts, as well as a lot of the internal value that we're all driving, so I think that'll be a great session tomorrow. >> Well, and it's important, 'cause there's a lot of confusing, and still is a lot of confusion about those roles, and you made the point early today, is look, there's a big organizational issue you have to deal with, particularly around data silos, MyData. I presume you guys are attacking that challenge? >> Absolutely. >> Still, it's still a-- >> It's an ongoing-- >> Oh, absolutely. >> I think we're getting a lot better at it, but you've got to lean in, because if it's not internal, it's some of the external challenges around. Now we're picking Cloud vendors and so forth. Ten years ago, we had our own silos and our own warehouses, if we had a warehouse, and then, we were kind of moving into our own silos in our own databases, and then as we democratized that, we solved the one problem, but now our data's so big and compute needs are so large that we have no choice but to get more external into Cloud. So, you have to lean in, because everything is changing at such a rapid rate. >> And, it requires leadership. >> Yep. >> Absolutely. >> The whole digital data really requires excellent leadership, vision. IBM's catalyzing a lot of that conversation, so congratulations on getting this going. Last thoughts. >> Oh, I would just say, we were joking that 2014, the first couple of summits, small group, maybe 20-30 participants figuring out how to best organize from a structural perspective, you set up the office, what sort of outcomes, metrics, are we going to measure against, and those things, I think, will continue to be topics of discussion, but now we see we've got about 500 data leaders that are tracking our journey and that are involved and engaged with us. We've done a lot in North America, we're starting to do more outside the geographies, as well, which is great to see. So, I just have to say I think it's interesting to see the topics that continue to be of interest, the governance, the data monetization, and then, the new areas around AI, machine learning, data science, >> data science >> the empowering developers, the DevOps delivery, how we're going to deliver that type of training. So, it's been really exciting to see the community grow and all the best practices leveraged, and look forward to continuing to do more of that this year as well. >> Well, you obviously get a lot of value out of these events. You were here at the first one, you're here today. So, 2018. Your thoughts? >> I think the first one, we were all trying to figure out who we are, what's our role, and it varied from I'm a individual contributor, data evangelist in the organization to I'm king of the warehouse thing. >> Right. >> And, largely, from that defensive standpoint. I think, today, you see a lot more people that are leaning in, leading data science teams, leading the future of where the organizations are going to be going. This is really where the center of a lot of organizations are starting to pivot and look, and see, where is the future, and how does data become the leading edge of where the organization is going, so it's pretty cool to be a part of a community like this that's evolving that way, but then also being able to have that at a local level within your own organization. >> Well, another big take-away for me is the USAA example shows that this can pay for itself when you grow your own organization from a handful of people to a hundred plus individuals, driving value, so it makes it easier to justify, when you can demonstrate a business case. Well, guys, thanks very much for helping me wrap here. >> Absolutely. >> I appreciate you having us here. >> Thank you. >> It's been a great event. Always a pleasure, hopefully, we'll see you in the fall. >> Sounds good. Thank you so much. >> All right, thanks, everybody, for watching. We're out. This is theCUBE from IBM CDO Summit. Check out theCUBE.net for all of the videos, siliconangle.com for all the news summaries of this event, and wikibon.com for all the research. We'll see you next time. (techy music)

>> Announcer: Live from downtown San Francisco, it's the Cube, covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to San Francisco everybody. We're at the Parc 55 in Union Square and this is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage and we're covering exclusive coverage of the IBM CDO strategy summit. IBM has these things, they book in on both coasts, one in San Francisco one in Boston, spring and fall. Great event, intimate event. 130, 150 chief data officers, learning, transferring knowledge, sharing ideas. Cayn Woodruff is here as the principle data scientist at IBM and she's joined by Ritesh Ororo, who is the director of digital analytics at HCL Technologies. Folks welcome to the Cube, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you >> Thanks for having us. >> You're welcome. So we're going to talk about data management, data engineering, we're going to talk about digital, as I said Ritesh because digital is in your title. It's a hot topic today. But Caryn let's start off with you. Principle Data Scientist, so you're the one that is in short supply. So a lot of demand, you're getting pulled in a lot of different directions. But talk about your role and how you manage all those demands on your time. >> Well, you know a lot of, a lot of our work is driven by business needs, so it's really understanding what is critical to the business, what's going to support our businesses strategy and you know, picking the projects that we work on based on those items. So it's you really do have to cultivate the things that you spend your time on and make sure you're spending your time on the things that matter and as Ritesh and I were talking about earlier, you know, a lot of that means building good relationships with the people who manage the systems and the people who manage the data so that you can get access to what you need to get the critical insights that the business needs, >> So Ritesh, data management I mean this means a lot of things to a lot of people. It's evolved over the years. Help us frame what data management is in this day and age. >> Sure, so there are two aspects of data in my opinion. One is the data management, another the data engineering, right? And over the period as the data has grown significantly. Whether it's unstructured data, whether it's structured data, or the transactional data. We need to have some kind of governance in the policies to secure data to make data as an asset for a company so the business can rely on your data. What you are delivering to them. Now, the another part comes is the data engineering. Data engineering is more about an IT function, which is data acquisition, data preparation and delivering the data to the end-user, right? It can be business, it can be third-party but it all comes under the governance, under the policies, which are designed to secure the data, how the data should be accessed to different parts of the company or the external parties. >> And how those two worlds come together? The business piece and the IT piece, is that where you come in? >> That is where data science definitely comes into the picture. So if you go online, you can find Venn diagrams that describe data science as a combination of computer science math and statistics and business acumen. And so where it comes in the middle is data science. So it's really being able to put those things together. But, you know, what's what's so critical is you know, Interpol, actually, shared at the beginning here and I think a few years ago here, talked about the five pillars to building a data strategy. And, you know, one of those things is use cases, like getting out, picking a need, solving it and then going from there and along the way you realize what systems are critical, what data you need, who the business users are. You know, what would it take to scale that? So these, like, Proof-point projects that, you know, eventually turn into these bigger things, and for them to turn into bigger things you've got to have that partnership. You've got to know where your trusted data is, you've got to know that, how it got there, who can touch it, how frequently it is updated. Just being able to really understand that and work with partners that manage the infrastructure so that you can leverage it and make it available to other people and transparent. >> I remember when I first interviewed Hilary Mason way back when and I was asking her about that Venn diagram and she threw in another one, which was data hacking. >> Caryn: Uh-huh, yeah. >> Well, talk about that. You've got to be curious about data. You need to, you know, take a bath in data. >> (laughs) Yes, yes. I mean yeah, you really.. Sometimes you have to be a detective and you have to really want to know more. And, I mean, understanding the data is like the majority of the battle. >> So Ritesh, we were talking off-camera about it's not how titles change, things evolve, data, digital. They're kind of interchangeable these days. I mean we always say the difference between a business and a digital business is how they have used data. And so digital being part of your role, everybody's trying to get digital transformation, right? As an SI, you guys are at the heart of it. Certainly, IBM as well. What kinds of questions are our clients asking you about digital? >> So I ultimately see data, whatever we drive from data, it is used by the business side. So we are trying to always solve a business problem, which is to optimize the issues the company is facing, or try to generate more revenues, right? Now, the digital as well as the data has been married together, right? Earlier there are, you can say we are trying to analyze the data to get more insights, what is happening in that company. And then we came up with a predictive modeling that based on the data that will statically collect, how can we predict different scenarios, right? Now digital, we, over the period of the last 10 20 years, as the data has grown, there are different sources of data has come in picture, we are talking about social media and so on, right? And nobody is looking for just reports out of the Excel, right? It is more about how you are presenting the data to the senior management, to the entire world and how easily they can understand it. That's where the digital from the data digitization, as well as the application digitization comes in picture. So the tools are developed over the period to have a better visualization, better understanding. How can we integrate annotation within the data? So these are all different aspects of digitization on the data and we try to integrate the digital concepts within our data and analytics, right? So I used to be more, I mean, I grew up as a data engineer, analytics engineer but now I'm looking more beyond just the data or the data preparation. It's more about presenting the data to the end-user and the business. How it is easy for them to understand it. >> Okay I got to ask you, so you guys are data wonks. I am too, kind of, but I'm not as skilled as you are, but, and I say that with all due respect. I mean you love data. >> Caryn: Yes. >> As data science becomes a more critical skill within organizations, we always talk about the amount of data, data growth, the stats are mind-boggling. But as a data scientist, do you feel like you have access to the right data and how much of a challenge is that with clients? >> So we do have access to the data but the challenge is, the company has so many systems, right? It's not just one or two applications. There are companies we have 50 or 60 or even hundreds of application built over last 20 years. And there are some applications, which are basically duplicate, which replicates the data. Now, the challenge is to integrate the data from different systems because they maintain different metadata. They have the quality of data is a concern. And sometimes with the international companies, the rules, for example, might be in US or India or China, the data acquisitions are different, right? And you are, as you become more global, you try to integrate the data beyond boundaries, which becomes a more compliance issue sometimes, also, beyond the technical issues of data integration. >> Any thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I think, you know one of the other issues too, you have, as you've heard of shadow IT, where people have, like, servers squirreled away under their desks. There's your shadow data, where people have spreadsheets and databases that, you know, they're storing on, like a small server or that they share within their department. And so you know, you were discussing, we were talking earlier about the different systems. And you might have a name in one system that's one way and a name in another system that's slightly different, and then a third system, where it's it's different and there's extra granularity to it or some extra twist. And so you really have to work with all of the people that own these processes and figure out what's the trusted source? What can we all agree on? So there's a lot of... It's funny, a lot of the data problems are people problems. So it's getting people to talk and getting people to agree on, well this is why I need it this way, and this is why I need it this way, and figuring out how you come to a common solution so you can even create those single trusted sources that then everybody can go to and everybody knows that they're working with the the right thing and the same thing that they all agree on. >> The politics of it and, I mean, politics is kind of a pejorative word but let's say dissonance, where you have maybe of a back-end syst6em, financial system and the CFO, he or she is looking at the data saying oh, this is what the data says and then... I remember I was talking to a, recently, a chef in a restaurant said that the CFO saw this but I know that's not the case, I don't have the data to prove it. So I'm going to go get the data. And so, and then as they collect that data they bring together. So I guess in some ways you guys are mediators. >> [Caryn And Ritesh] Yes, yes. Absolutely. >> 'Cause the data doesn't lie you just got to understand it. >> You have to ask the right question. Yes. And yeah. >> And sometimes when you see the data, you start, that you don't even know what questions you want to ask until you see the data. Is that is that a challenge for your clients? >> Caryn: Yes, all the time. Yeah >> So okay, what else do we want to we want to talk about? The state of collaboration, let's say, between the data scientists, the data engineer, the quality engineer, maybe even the application developers. Somebody, John Fourier often says, my co-host and business partner, data is the new development kit. Give me the data and I'll, you know, write some code and create an application. So how about collaboration amongst those roles, is that something... I know IBM's gone on about some products there but your point Caryn, it's a lot of times it's the people. >> It is. >> And the culture. What are you seeing in terms of evolution and maturity of that challenge? >> You know I have a very good friend who likes to say that data science is a team sport and so, you know, these should not be, like, solo projects where just one person is wading up to their elbows in data. This should be something where you've got engineers and scientists and business, people coming together to really work through it as a team because everybody brings really different strengths to the table and it takes a lot of smart brains to figure out some of these really complicated things. >> I completely agree. Because we see the challenges, we always are trying to solve a business problem. It's important to marry IT as well as the business side. We have the technical expert but we don't have domain experts, subject matter experts who knows the business in IT, right? So it's very very important to collaborate closely with the business, right? And data scientist a intermediate layer between the IT as well as business I will say, right? Because a data scientist as they, over the years, as they try to analyze the information, they understand business better, right? And they need to collaborate with IT to either improve the quality, right? That kind of challenges they are facing and I need you to, the data engineer has to work very hard to make sure the data delivered to the data scientist or the business is accurate as much as possible because wrong data will lead to wrong predictions, right? And ultimately we need to make sure that we integrate the data in the right way. >> What's a different cultural dynamic that was, say ten years ago, where you'd go to a statistician, she'd fire up the SPSS.. >> Caryn: We still use that. >> I'm sure you still do but run some kind of squares give me some, you know, probabilities and you know maybe run some Monte Carlo simulation. But one person kind of doing all that it's your point, Caryn. >> Well you know, it's it's interesting. There are there are some students I mentor at a local university and you know we've been talking about the projects that they get and that you know, more often than not they get a nice clean dataset to go practice learning their modeling on, you know? And they don't have to get in there and clean it all up and normalize the fields and look for some crazy skew or no values or, you know, where you've just got so much noise that needs to be reduced into something more manageable. And so it's, you know, you made the point earlier about understanding the data. It's just, it really is important to be very curious and ask those tough questions and understand what you're dealing with. Before you really start jumping in and building a bunch of models. >> Let me add another point. That the way we have changed over the last ten years, especially from the technical point of view. Ten years back nobody talks about the real-time data analysis. There was no streaming application as such. Now nobody talks about the batch analysis, right? Everybody wants data on real-time basis. But not if not real-time might be near real-time basis. That has become a challenge. And it's not just that prediction, which are happening in their ERP environment or on the cloud, they want the real-time integration with the social media for the marketing and the sales and how they can immediately do the campaign, right? So, for example, if I go to Google and I search for for any product, right, for example, a pressure cooker, right? And I go to Facebook, immediately I see the ad within two minutes. >> Yeah, they're retargeting. >> So that's a real-time analytics is happening under different application, including the third-party data, which is coming from social media. So that has become a good source of data but it has become a challenge for the data analyst and the data scientist. How quickly we can turn around is called data analysis. >> Because it used to be you would get ads for a pressure cooker for months, even after you bought the pressure cooker and now it's only a few days, right? >> Ritesh: It's a minute. You close this application, you log into Facebook... >> Oh, no doubt. >> Ritesh: An ad is there. >> Caryn: There it is. >> Ritesh: Because everything is linked either your phone number or email ID you're done. >> It's interesting. We talked about disruption a lot. I wonder if that whole model is going to get disrupted in a new way because everybody started using the same ad. >> So that's a big change of our last 10 years. >> Do you think..oh go ahead. >> oh no, I was just going to say, you know, another thing is just there's so much that is available to everybody now, you know. There's not this small little set of tools that's restricted to people that are in these very specific jobs. But with open source and with so many software-as-a-service products that are out there, anybody can go out and get an account and just start, you know, practicing or playing or joining a cackle competition or, you know, start getting their hands on.. There's data sets that are out there that you can just download to practice and learn on and use. So, you know, it's much more open, I think, than it used to be. >> Yeah, community additions of software, open data. The number of open day sources just keeps growing. Do you think that machine intelligence can, or how can machine intelligence help with this data quality challenge? >> I think that it's it's always going to require people, you know? There's always going to be a need for people to train the machines on how to interpret the data. How to classify it, how to tag it. There's actually a really good article in Popular Science this month about a woman who was training a machine on fake news and, you know, it did a really nice job of finding some of the the same claims that she did. But she found a few more. So, you know, I think it's, on one hand we have machines that we can augment with data and they can help us make better decisions or sift through large volumes of data but then when we're teaching the machines to classify the data or to help us with metadata classification, for example, or, you know, to help us clean it. I think that it's going to be a while before we get to the point where that's the inverse. >> Right, so in that example you gave, the human actually did a better job from the machine. Now, this amazing to me how.. What, what machines couldn't do that humans could, you know last year and all of a sudden, you know, they can. It wasn't long ago that robots couldn't climb stairs. >> And now they can. >> And now they can. >> It's really creepy. >> I think the difference now is, earlier you know, you knew that there is an issue in the data. But you don't know that how much data is corrupt or wrong, right? Now, there are tools available and they're very sophisticated tools. They can pinpoint and provide you the percentage of accuracy, right? On different categories of data that that you come across, right? Even forget about the structure data. Even when you talk about unstructured data, the data which comes from social media or the comments and the remarks that you log or are logged by the customer service representative, there are very sophisticated text analytics tools available, which can talk very accurately about the data as well as the personality of the person who is who's giving that information. >> Tough problems but it seems like we're making progress. All you got to do is look at fraud detection as an example. Folks, thanks very much.. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> ...for sharing your insight. You're very welcome. Alright, keep it right there everybody. We're live from the IBM CTO conference in San Francisco. Be right back, you're watching the Cube. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit 2018, brought to you by IBM. >> We're back in San Francisco, we're here at the Parc 55 at the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and IBM's Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit, they hold them on both coasts, one in Boston and one in San Francisco. A couple times each year, about 150 chief data officers coming in to learn how to apply their craft, learn what IBM is doing, share ideas. Great peer networking, really senior audience. John Thomas is here, he's a distinguished engineer and director at IBM, good to see you again John. >> Same to you. >> Thanks for coming back in theCUBE. So let's start with your role, distinguished engineer, we've had this conversation before but it just doesn't happen overnight, you've got to be accomplished, so congratulations on achieving that milestone, but what is your role? >> The road to distinguished engineer is long but today, these days I spend a lot of my time working on data science and in fact am part of what is called a data science elite team. We work with clients on data science engagements, so this is not consulting, this is not services, this is where a team of data scientists work collaboratively with a client on a specific use case and we build it out together. We bring data science expertise, machine learning, deep learning expertise. We work with the business and build out a set of tangible assets that are relevant to that particular client. >> So this is not a for-pay service, this is hey you're a great customer, a great client of ours, we're going to bring together some resources, you'll learn, we'll learn, we'll grow together, right? >> This is an investment IBM is making. It's a major investment for our top clients working with them on their use cases. >> This is a global initiative? >> This is global, yes. >> We're talking about, what, hundreds of clients, thousands of clients? >> Well eventually thousands but we're starting small. We are trying to scale now so obviously once you get into these engagements, you find out that it's not just about building some models. There are a lot of challenges that you've got to deal with in an enterprise setting. >> Dave: What are some of the challenges? >> Well in any data science engagement the first thing is to have clarity on the use case that you're engaging in. You don't want to build models for models' sake. Just because Tensorflow or scikit-learn is great and build models, that doesn't serve a purpose. That's the first thing, do you have clarity of the business use case itself? Then comes data, now I cannot stress this enough, Dave, there is no data science without data, and you might think this is the most obvious thing, of course there has to be data, but when I say data I'm talking about access to the right data. Do we have governance over the data? Do we know who touched the data? Do we have lineage on that data? Because garbage in, garbage out, you know this. Do we have access to the right data in the right control setting for my machine learning models we built. These are challenges and then there's another challenge around, okay, I built my models but how do I operationalize them? How do I weave those models into the fabric of my business? So these are all challenges that we have to deal with. >> That's interesting what you're saying about the data, it does sound obvious but having the right data model as well. I think about when I interact with Netflix, I don't talk to their customer service department or their marketing department or their sales department or their billing department, it's one experience. >> You just have an experience, exactly. >> This notion of incumbent disruptors, is that a logical starting point for these guys to get to that point where they have a data model that is a single data model? >> Single data model. (laughs) >> Dave: What does that mean, right? At least from an experienced standpoint. >> Once we know this is the kind of experience we want to target, what are the relevant data sets and data pieces that are necessary to make their experience happen or come together. Sometimes there's core enterprise data that you have in many cases, it has been augmented with external data. Do you have a strategy around handling your internal, external data, your structured transactional data, your semi-structured data, your newsfeeds. All of these need to come together in a consistent fashion for that experience to be true. It is not just about I've got my credit card transaction data but what else is augmenting that data? You need a model, you need a strategy around that. >> I talk to a lot of organizations and they say we have a good back-end reporting system, we have Cognos we can build cubes and all kinds of financial data that we have, but then it doesn't get down to the front line. We have an instrument at the front line, we talk about IOT and that portends change there but there's a lot of data that either isn't persisted or not stored or doesn't even exist, so is that one of the challenges that you see enterprises dealing with? >> It is a challenge. Do I have access to the right data, whether that is data at rest or in motion? Am I persisting it the way I can consume it later? Or am I just moving big volumes of data around because analytics is there, or machine learning is there and I have to move data out of my core systems into that area. That is just a waste of time, complexity, cost, hidden costs often, 'cause people don't usually think about the hidden costs of moving large volumes of data around. But instead of that can I bring analytics and machine learning and data science itself to where my data is. Not necessarily to move it around all the time. Whether you're dealing with streaming data or large volumes of data in your Hadoop environment or mainframes or whatever. Can I do ML in place and have the most value out of the data that is there? >> What's happening with all that Hadoop? Nobody talks about Hadoop anymore. Hadoop largely became a way to store data for less, but there's all this data now and a data lake. How are customers dealing with that? >> This is such an interesting thing. People used to talk about the big data, you're right. We jumped from there to the cognitive It's not like that right? No, without the data then there is no cognition there is no AI, there is no ML. In terms of existing investments in Hadoop for example, you have to absolutely be able to tap in and leverage those investments. For example, many large clients have investments in large Cloudera or Hortonworks environment, or Hadoop environments so if you're doing data science, how do you push down, how do you leverage that for scale, for example? How do you access the data using the same access control mechanisms that are already in place? Maybe you have Carbros as your mechanism how do you work with that? How do you avoid moving data off of that environment? How do you push down data prep into the spar cluster? How do you do model training in that spar cluster? All of these become important in terms of leveraging your existing investments. It is not just about accessing data where it is, it's also about leveraging the scale that the company has already invested in. You have hundred, 500 node Hadoop clusters well make the most of them in terms of scaling your data science operations. So push down and access data as much as possible in those environments. >> So Beth talked today, Beth Smith, about Watson's law, and she made a little joke about that, but to me its poignant because we are entering a new era. For decades this industry marched to the cadence of Moore's law, then of course Metcalfe's law in the internet era. I want to make an observation and see if it resonates. It seems like innovation is no longer going to come from doubling microprocessor speed and the network is there, it's built out, the internet is built. It seems like innovation comes from applying AI to data together to get insights and then being able to scale, so it's cloud economics. Marginal costs go to zero and massive network effects, and scale, ability to track innovation. That seems to be the innovation equation, but how do you operationalize that? >> To your point, Dave, when we say cloud scale, we want the flexibility to do that in an off RAM public cloud or in a private cloud or in between, in a hybrid cloud environment. When you talk about operationalizing, there's a couple different things. People think that, say I've got a super Python programmer and he's great with Tensorflow or scikit-learn or whatever and he builds these models, great, but what happens next, how do you actually operationalize those models? You need to be able to deploy those models easily. You need to be able to consume those models easily. For example you have a chatbot, a chatbot is dumb until it actually calls these machine learning models, real time to make decisions on which way the conversation should go. So how do you make that chatbot intelligent? It's when it consumes the ML models that have been built. So deploying models, consuming models, you create a model, you deploy it, you've got to push it through the development test staging production phases. Just the same rigor that you would have for any applications that are deployed. Then another thing is, a model is great on day one. Let's say I built a fraud detection model, it works great on day one. A week later, a month later it's useless because the data that it trained on is not what the fraudsters are using now. So patterns have changed, the model needs to be retrained How do I understand the performance of the model stays good over time? How do I do monitoring? How do I retrain the models? How do I do the life cycle management of the models and then scale? Which is okay I deployed this model out and its great, every application is calling it, maybe I have partners calling these models. How do I automatically scale? Whether what you are using behind the scenes or if you are going to use external clusters for scale? Technology is like spectrum connector from our HPC background are very interesting counterparts to this. How do I scale? How do I burst? How do I go from an on-frame to an off-frame environment? How do I build something behind the firewall but deploy it into the cloud? We have a chatbot or some other cloud-native application, all of these things become interesting in the operationalizing. >> So how do all these conversations that you're having with these global elite clients and the challenges that you're unpacking, how do they get back into innovation for IBM, what's that process like? >> It's an interesting place to be in because I am hearing and experiencing first hand real enterprise challenges and there we see our product doesn't handle this particular thing now? That is an immediate circling back with offering management and development. Hey guys we need this particular function because I'm seeing this happening again and again in customer engagements. So that helps us shape our products, shape our data science offerings, and sort of running with the flow of what everyone is doing, we'll look at that. What do our clients want? Where are they headed? And shape the products that way. >> Excellent, well John thanks very much for coming back in theCUBE and it's a pleasure to see you again. I appreciate your time. >> Thank you Dave. >> All right good to see you. Keep it right there everybody we'll be back with our next guest. We're live from the IBM CDO strategy summit in San Francisco, you're watching theCUBE.

>> Narrator: Live from downtown San Francisco, it's The Cube, covering IBM chief data officer strategy summit 2018, brought to you by IBM. (playful music) >> Welcome back to the IBM chief data officer strategy summit in San Francisco. We're here at the Parc 55. My name is Dave Vellante, and you're watching The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage, #IBMCDO. Seth Dobrin is here. He's the chief data officer for IBM analytics. Seth, good to see you again. >> Good to see you again, Dave. >> Many time Cube alum; thanks for coming back on. Asim Tewary, Tewary? Tewary; sorry. >> Tewary, yes. >> Asim Tewary; I can't read my own writing. Head of data science and advanced analytics at Verizon, and from Jersey. Two east coast boys, three east coast boys. >> Three east coast boys. >> Yeah. >> Welcome, gentlemen. >> Thank you. >> Asim, you guys had a panel earlier today. Let's start with you. What's your role? I mean, we talked you're the defacto chief data officer at Verizon. >> Yes, I'm responsible for all the data ingestion platform, big data, and the data science for Verizon, for wireless, wire line, and enterprise businesses. >> It's a relatively new role at Verizon? You were saying previously you were CDO at a financial services organization. Common that a financial service organization would have a chief data officer. How did the role come about at Verizon? Are you Verizon's first CDO or-- >> I was actually brought in to really pull together the analytics and data across the enterprise, because there was a realization that data only creates value when you're able to get it from all the difference sources. We had separate teams in the past. My role was to bring it all together, to have a common platform, common data science team to drive revenue across the businesses. >> Seth, this is a big challenge, obviously. We heard Caitlyn this morning, talking about the organizational challenges. You got data in silos. Inderpal and your team are basically, I call it dog-fooding. You're drinking your own champagne. >> Champagne-ing, yeah. >> Yeah, okay, but you have a similar challenge. You have big company, complex, a lot of data silos coming. Yeah, I mean, IBM is really, think of it as five companies, right? Any one of them would be a fortune 500 company in and of themselves. Even within each of those, there were silos, and then Inderpal trying to bring them across, you know, the data from across all of them is really challenging. Honestly, the technology part, the bringing it together is the easy part. It's the cultural change that goes along with it that's really, really hard, to get people to think about it as IBM's or Verizon's data, and not their data. That's really how you start getting value from it. >> That's a cultural challenge you face is, "Okay, I've got my data; I don't want to share." How do you address that? >> Absolutely. Governance and ownership of data, having clear roles and responsibilities, ensuring there's this culture where people realize that data is an asset of the firm. It is not your data or my data; it is firm's data, and the value you create for the business is from that data. It is a transformation. It's changing the people culture aspect, so there's a lot of education. You know, you have to be an evangelist. You wear multiple hats to show people the value, why they should do. Obviously, I had an advantage because coming in, Verizon management was completely sold to the idea that the data has to be managed as an enterprise asset. Business was ready and willing to own data as an enterprise asset, and so it was relatively easier. However, it was a journey to try to get everyone on the same page in terms of ensuring that it wasn't the siloed mentality. This was a enterprise asset that we need to manage together. >> A lot of organizations tell me that, first of all, you got to have top-down buy-in. Clearly, you had that, but a lot of the times I hear that the C-suite says, "Okay, we're going to do this," but the middle management is sort of, they got to PNL, they've got to make their plan, and it takes them longer to catch up. Did you face that challenge, and how do you ... How were you addressing it? >> Absolutely. What we had to do was really make sure that we were not trying to boil the ocean, that we were trying to show the values. We found champions. For example, finance, you know, was a good champion for us, where we used the data and analytics to really actually launch some very critical initiatives for the firm, asset-backed securities. For the first time, Verizon launched ABS, and we actually enabled that. That created the momentum, if you will, as to, "Okay, there's value in this." That then created the opportunity for all the other business to jump on and start leveraging data. Then we all are willing to help and be part of the journey. >> Seth, before you joined IBM, obviously the company was embarking on this cognitive journey. You know, Watson, the evolution of Watson, the kind of betting a lot on cognitive, but internally you must have said, "Well, if we're going to market this externally, "we'd better become a cognitive enterprise." One of the questions that came up on the panel was, "What is a cognitive enterprise?" You guys, have you defined it? Love to ask Asim the same question. >> Yeah, so I mean, a cognitive enterprise is really about an enterprise that uses data and analytics, and cognition to run their business, right? You can't just jump to being a cognitive enterprise, right? It's a journey or a ladder, right? Where you got to get that foundation data in order. Then you've got to start even being able to do basic analytics. Then you can start doing things like machine learning, and deep learning, and then you can get into cognition. It's not a, just jump to the top of the ladder, because there's just a lot of work that's required to do it. You can do that within a business unit. The whole company doesn't need to get there, and in fact, you'll see within a company, different part of the company will be at different stages. Kind of to Asim's point about partnering with finance, and that's my experience both at IBM and before I joined. You find a partner that's going to be a champion for you. You make them immensely successful, and everyone else will follow because of shame, because they don't want to be out-competed by their peers. >> So, similar definition of a cognitive enterprise? >> Absolutely. In fact, what I would say is cognitive is a spectrum, right? Where most companies are at the low end of that spectrum where using data for decision-making, but those are reports, BI reports, and stuff like that. As you evolve to become smarter and more AI machine learning, that's when you get into predictive, where you're using the data to predict what might happen based on prior historical information. Then that evolution goes all the way to being prescriptive, where you're not only looking back and being able to predict, but you're actually able to recommend action that you want to take. Obviously, with the human involvement, because governance is an important aspect to all of this, right? Completely agree that the cognitive is really covering the spectrum of prescriptive, predictive, and using data for all your decision making. >> This actually gets into a good point, right? I mean, I think Asim has implemented some deep learning models at Verizon, but you really need to think about what's the right technology or the right, you know, the right use case for that. There's some use cases where descriptive analytics is the right answer, right? There's no reason to apply machine learning or deep learning. You just need to put that in front of someone. Then there are use cases where you do want deep learning, either because the problem is so complex, or because the accuracy needs to be there. I go into a lot of companies to talk to senior executives, and they're like, "We want to do deep learning." You ask them what the use case is, and you're like, "Really, that's rules," right? It gets back to Occam's razor, right? The simplest solution is always the answer, is always the best answer. Really understanding from your perspective, having done this at a couple of companies now, kind of when do you know when to use deep learning versus machine learning, versus just basic statistics? >> How about that? >> Yeah. >> How do you parse that? >> Absolutely. You know, like anything else, it's very important to understand what problem you're trying to solve. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and deep learning might be one of those hammers. What we do is make sure that any problem that requires explain-ability, interpret-ability, you cannot use deep learning, because you cannot explain when you're using deep learning. It's a multi-layered neural network algorithm. You can't really explain why the outcome was what it was. For that, you have to use more simpler algorithms, like decision tree, like regression, classification. By the way, 70 to 80% of the problem that you have in the company, can be solved by those algorithms. You don't always use deep learning, but deep learning is a great use case algorithm to use when you're solving complex problems. For example, when you're looking at doing friction analysis as to customer journey path analysis, that tends to be very noisy. You know, you have billions of data points that you have to go through for an algorithm. That is, you know, good for deep learning, so we're using that today, but you know, those are a narrow set of use cases where it is required, so it's important to understand what problem you're trying to solve and where you want to use deep learning. >> To use deep learning, you need a lot of label data, right? >> Yes. >> And that's-- >> A lot of what? Label data? >> Label data. So, and that's often a hurdle to companies using deep learning, even when they have a legitimate deep learning use cases. Just the massive amount of label data you need for that use case. >> As well as scale, right? >> Yeah. >> The whole idea is that when you have massive amounts of data with a lot of different variables, you need deep learning to be able to make that decision. That means you've got to have scale and real time capability within the platform, that has the elasticity and compute, to be able to crunch all that data. >> Yeah. >> Initially, when we started on this journey, our infrastructure was not able to handle that. You know, we had a lot of failures, and so obviously we had to enhance our infrastructure to-- >> You spoke to Samit Gupta and Ed earlier, about, you know, GPUs, and flash storage, and the need for those types of things to do these complex, you know, deep learning problems. We struggled with that even inside of IBM when we first started building this platform as, how do we get the best performance of ingesting the data, getting it labeled, and putting it into these models, these deep learning models, and some of the instance we use that. >> Yeah, my takeaway is that infrastructure for AI has to be flexible, you got to be great granularity. It's got to not only be elastic, but it's got to be, sometimes we call it plastic. It's got to sometimes retain its form. >> Yes. >> Right? Then when you bring in some new unknown workload, you've got to be able to adjust it without ripping down the entire infrastructure. You have to purpose built a whole next set of infrastructure, which is kind of how we built IT over the years. >> Exactly. >> I think, Dave, too, When you and I first spoke four or five years ago, it was all about commodity hardware, right? It was going to Hadoop ecosystem, minimizing, you know, getting onto commodity hardware, and now you're seeing a shift away from commodity hardware, in some instances, toward specialized hardware, because you need it for these use cases. So we're kind of making that. We shifted to one extreme, and now we're kind of shifting, and I think we're going to get to a good equilibrium where it's a balance of commodity and specialized hardware for big data, as much as I hate that word, and advanced analytics. >> Well, yeah, even your cloud guys, all the big cloud guys, they used to, you know, five, six years ago, say, "Oh, it's all commodity stuff," and now it's a lot of custom, because they're solving problems that you can't solve with a commodity. I want to ask you guys about this notion of digital business. To us, the difference between a business and a digital business is how you use data. As you become a digital business, which is essentially what you're doing with cognitive and AI, historically, you may have organized around, I don't know, your network, and certain you've got human skills that are involved, and your customers. I mean, IBM in your case, it's your products, your services, your portfolio, your clients. Increasingly, you're organizing around your data, aren't you? Which brings back to cultural change, but what about the data model? I presume you're trying to get to a data model where the customer service, and the sales, and the marketing aren't separate entities. I don't have to deal with them when I talk to Verizon. I deal with just Verizon, right? That's not easy when the data's all inside. How are you dealing with that challenge? >> Customer is at the center of the business model. Our motto and out goal is to provide the best products to the customers, but even more important, provide the best experience. It is all about the customer, agnostic of the channel, which channel the customer is interacting with. The customer, for the customer, it's one Verizon. The way we are organizing our data platform is, first of all, breaking all the silos. You know, we need to have data from all interactions with the customer, that is all digital, that's coming through, and creating one unified model, essentially, that essentially teaches all the journeys, and all the information about the customer, their events, their behavior, their propensities, and stuff like that. Then that information, using algorithms, like predictive, prescriptive, and all of that, make it available in all channels of engagement. Essentially, you have common intelligence that is made available across all channels. Whether the customer goes to point of sale in a retail store, or calls a call center, talks to a rep, or is on the digital channel, is the same intelligence driving the experience. Whether a customer is trying to buy a phone, or has an issue with a service related aspect of it, and that's the key, which is centralized intelligence from common data lake, and then deliver a seamless experience across all channels for that customer-- >> Independent of where I bought that phone, for example, right? >> Exactly. Maintaining the context is critical. If you went to the store and you know, you're looking for a phone, and you know, you didn't find what you're looking for, you want to do some research, if you go to the digital channel, you should be able to have a seamless experience where we should know that you went, that you're looking for the phone, or you called care and you asked the agent about something. Having that context be transferred across channel and be available, so the customer feels that we know who the customer is, and provide them with a good experience, is the key. >> We have limited time, but I want to talk about skills. It's hard to come by; we talked about that. It's number five on Inderpal's sort of, list of things you've got to do as a CDO. Sometimes you can do MNA, by the weather company. You've got a lot of skills, but that's not always so practical. How have you been dealing with the skills gap? >> Look, skill is hard to find, data scientists are hard to find. The way we are envisioning our talent management is two things we need to take care of. One, we need solid big data engineers, because having a solid platform that has real trans-streaming capability is very critical. Second, data scientists, it's hard to get. However, our plan is to really take the domain experts, who really understand the business, who understand the business process and the data, and give them the tools, automation tools for data science, that essentially, you know, will put it in a box for them, in terms of which algorithm to use, and enable them to create more value. While we will continue to hire specialized data scientists who are going to work on much more of the complex problems, the skill will come from empowering and enabling the domain experts with data science capabilities that automates choosing model development and algorithm development. >> Presumably grooming people in house, right? >> Grooming people in house, and I actually break it down a little more granular. I even say there's data engineers, there's machine learning engineers, there's optimization engineers, then there's data journalists. They're the ones that tell the story. I think we were talking earlier, Asim, about you know, it's not just PhDs, right? You're not just looking for PhDs to fill these rolls anymore. You're looking for people with masters degrees, and even in some cases, bachelors degrees. With IBM's new collar job initiative, we're even bringing on some, what we call P-TECH students, which are five year high school students, and we're building a data science program for them. We're building apprenticeships, which is, you know, you've had a couple years of college, building a data science program, and people look at me like I'm crazy when I say that, but the bulk of the work of a data science program, of executing data science, is not implementing machine learning models. It's engineering features, it's cleaning data. With basic Python skills, this is something that you can very easily teach these people to do, and then under the supervision of a principal data scientist or someone with a PhD or a masters degree, they can start learning how to implement models, but they can start contributing right away with just some basic Python skills. >> Then five, seven years in, they're-- >> Yeah. >> domain experts. All right, guys, got to jump, but thanks very much, Asim, for coming on and sharing your story. Seth, always a pleasure. >> Yeah, good to see you again, Dave. >> All right. >> Thank you, Dave. >> You're welcome. Keep it right there, buddy. >> Thanks. >> We'll be back with our next guest. This is The Cube, live from IBM CDO strategy summit in San Francisco. We'll be right back. (playful music) (phone dialing)

(music playing) >> Narrator: Live, from downtown San Francisco It's the Cube. Covering IBM Chief Data Officer Startegy Summit 2018. Brought to you by: IBM >> Welcome back to San Francisco everybody we're at the Parc 55 in Union Square. My name is Dave Vellante, and you're watching the Cube. The leader in live tech coverage and this is our exclusive coverage of IBM's Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit. They hold these both in San Francisco and in Boston. It's an intimate event, about 150 Chief Data Officers really absorbing what IBM has done internally and IBM transferring knowledge to its clients. Steven Eluk is here. He is one of those internal practitioners at IBM. He's the Vice President of Deep Learning and the Global Chief Data Office at IBM. We just heard from him and some of his strategies and used cases. He's joined by Sumit Gupta, a Cube alum. Who is the Vice President of Machine Learning and deep learning within IBM's cognitive systems group. Sumit. >> Thank you. >> Good to see you, welcome back Steven, lets get into it. So, I was um paying close attention when Bob Picciano took over the cognitive systems group. I said, "Hmm, that's interesting". Recently a software guy, of course I know he's got some hardware expertise. But bringing in someone who's deep into software and machine learning, and deep learning, and AI, and cognitive systems into a systems organization. So you guys specifically set out to develop solutions to solve problems like Steven's trying to solve. Right, explain that. >> Yeah, so I think ugh there's a revolution going on in the market the computing market where we have all these new machine learning, and deep learning technologies that are having meaningful impact or promise of having meaningful impact. But these new technologies, are actually significantly I would say complex and they require very complex and high performance computing systems. You know I think Bob and I think in particular IBM saw the opportunity and realized that we really need to architect a new class of infrastructure. Both software and hardware to address what data scientist like Steve are trying to do in the space, right? The open source software that's out there: Denzoflo, Cafe, Torch - These things are truly game changing. But they also require GPU accelerators. They also require multiple systems like... In fact interestingly enough you know some of the super computers that we've been building for the scientific computing world, those same technologies are now coming into the AI world and the enterprise. >> So, the infrastructure for AI, if I can use that term? It's got to be flexible, Steven we were sort of talking about that elastic versus I'm even extending it to plastic. As Sumit you just said, it's got to have that tooling, got to have that modern tooling, you've got to accommodate alternative processor capabilities um, and so, that forms what you've used Steven to sort of create new capabilities new business capabilities within IBM. I wanted to, we didn't touch upon this before, but we touched upon your data strategy before but tie it back to the line of business. You essentially are a presume a liaison between the line of business and the chief data office >> Steven: Yeah. >> Officer office. How did that all work out, and shake out? Did you defining the business outcomes, the requirements, how did you go about that? >> Well, actually, surprisingly, we have very little new use cases that we're generating internally from my organization. Because there's so many to pick from already throughout the organization, right? There's all these business units coming to us and saying, "Hey, now the data is in the data lake and now we know there's more data, now we want to do this. How do we do it?" You know, so that's where we come in, that's where we start touching and massaging and enabling them. And that's the main efforts that we have. We do have some derivative works that have come out, that have been like new offerings that you'll see here. But mostly we already have so many use cases that from those businesses units that we're really trying to heighten and bring extra value to those domains first. >> So, a lot of organizations sounds like IBM was similar you created the data lake you know, things like "a doop" made a lower cost to just put stuff in the data lake. But then, it's like "okay, now what?" >> Steven: Yeah. >> So is that right? So you've got the data and this bog of data and you're trying to make more sense out of it but get more value out of it? >> Steven: Absolutely. >> That's what they were pushing you to do? >> Yeah, absolutely. And with that, with more data you need more computational power. And actually Sumit and I go pretty far back and I can tell you from my previous roles I heightened to him many years ago some of the deficiencies in the current architecture in X86 etc and I said, "If you hit these points, I will buy these products." And what they went back and they did is they, they addressed all of the issues that I had. Like there's certain issues... >> That's when you were, sorry to interrupt, that's when you were a customer, right? >> Steven: That's when I was... >> An external customer >> Outside. I'm still an internal customer, so I've always been a customer I guess in that role right? >> Yep, yep. >> But, I need to get data to the computational device as quickly as possible. And with certain older gen technologies, like PTI Gen3 and certain issues around um x86. I couldn't get that data there for like high fidelity imaging for autonomous vehicles for ya know, high fidelity image analysis. But, with certain technologies in power we have like envy link and directly to the CPU. And we also have PTI Gen4, right? So, so these are big enablers for me so that I can really keep the utilization of those very expensive compute devices higher. Because they're not starved for data. >> And you've also put a lot of emphasis on IO, right? I mean that's... >> Yeah, you know if I may break it down right there's actually I would say three different pieces to the puzzle here right? The highest level from Steve's perspective, from Steven's teams perspective or any data scientist perspective is they need to just do their data science and not worry about the infrastructure, right? They actually don't want to know that there's an infrastructure. They want to say, "launch job" - right? That's the level of grand clarity we want, right? In the background, they want our schedulers, our software, our hardware to just seamlessly use either one system or scale to 100 systems, right? To use one GPU or to use 1,000 GPUs, right? So that's where our offerings come in, right. We went and built this offering called Powder and Powder essentially is open source software like TensorFlow, like Efi, like Torch. But performace and capabilities add it to make it much easier to use. So for example, we have an extremely terrific scheduling software that manages jobs called Spectrum Conductor for Spark. So as the name suggests, it uses Apache Spark. But again the data scientist doesn't know that. They say, "launch job". And the software actually goes and scales that job across tens of servers or hundreds of servers. The IT team can determine how many servers their going to allocate for data scientist. They can have all kinds of user management, data management, model management software. We take the open source software, we package it. You know surprisingly ugh most people don't realize this, the open source software like TensorFlow has primarily been built on a (mumbles). And most of our enterprise clients, including Steven, are on Redhat. So we, we engineered Redhat to be able to manage TensorFlow. And you know I chose those words carefully, there was a little bit of engineering both on Redhat and on TensorFlow to make that whole thing work together. Sounds trivial, took several months and huge value proposition to the enterprise clients. And then the last piece I think that Steven was referencing too, is we also trying to go and make the eye more accessible for non data scientist or I would say even data engineers. So we for example, have a software called Powder Vision. This takes images and videos, and automatically creates a trained deep learning model for them, right. So we analyze the images, you of course have to tell us in these images, for these hundred images here are the most important things. For example, you've identified: here are people, here are cars, here are traffic signs. But if you give us some of that labeled data, we automatically do the work that a data scientist would have done, and create this pre trained AI model for you. This really enables many rapid prototyping for a lot of clients who either kind of fought to have data scientists or don't want to have data scientists. >> So just to summarize that, the three pieces: It's making it simpler for the data scientists, just run the job - Um, the backend piece which is the schedulers, the hardware, the software doing its thing - and then its making that data science capability more accessible. >> Right, right, right. >> Those are the three layers. >> So you know, I'll resay it in my words maybe >> Yeah please. >> Ease of use right, hardware software optimized for performance and capability, and point and click AI, right. AI for non data scientists, right. It's like the three levels that I think of when I'm engaging with data scientists and clients. >> And essentially it's embedded AI right? I've been making the point today that a lot of the AI is going to be purchased from companies like IBM, and I'm just going to apply it. I'm not going to try to go build my own, own AI right? I mean, is that... >> No absolutely. >> Is that the right way to think about it as a practitioner >> I think, I think we talked about it a little bit about it on the panel earlier but if we can, if we can leverage these pre built models and just apply a little bit of training data it makes it so much easier for the organizations and so much cheaper. They don't have to invest in a crazy amount of infrastructure, all the labeling of data, they don't have to do that. So, I think it's definitely steering that way. It's going to take a little bit of time, we have some of them there. But as we as we iterate, we are going to get more and more of these types of you know, commodity type models that people could utilize. >> I'll give you an example, so we have a software called Intelligent Analytics at IBM. It's very good at taking any surveillance data and for example recognizing anomalies or you know if people aren't suppose to be in a zone. Ugh and we had a client who wanted to do worker safety compliance. So they want to make sure workers are wearing their safety jackets and their helmets when they're in a construction site. So we use surveillance data created a new AI model using Powder AI vision. We were then able to plug into this IVA - Intelligence Analytic Software. So they have the nice gooey base software for the dashboards and the alerts, yet we were able to do incremental training on their specific use case, which by the way, with their specific you know equipment and jackets and stuff like that. And create a new AI model, very quickly. For them to be able to apply and make sure their workers are actually complaint to all of the safety requirements they have on the construction site. >> Hmm interesting. So when I, Sometimes it's like a new form of capture says identify "all the pictures with bridges", right that's the kind of thing you're capable to do with these video analytics. >> That's exactly right. You, every, clients will have all kinds of uses I was at a, talking to a client, who's a major car manufacturer in the world and he was saying it would be great if I could identify the make and model of what cars people are driving into my dealership. Because I bet I can draw a ugh corelation between what they drive into and what they going to drive out of, right. Marketing insights, right. And, ugh, so there's a lot of things that people want to do with which would really be spoke in their use cases. And build on top of existing AI models that we have already. >> And you mentioned, X86 before. And not to start a food fight but um >> Steven: And we use both internally too, right. >> So lets talk about that a little bit, I mean where do you use X86 where do you use IBM Cognitive and Power Systems? >> I have a mix of both, >> Why, how do you decide? >> There's certain of work loads. I will delegate that over to Power, just because ya know they're data starved and we are noticing a complication is being impacted by it. Um, but because we deal with so many different organizations certain organizations optimize for X86 and some of them optimize for power and I can't pick, I have to have everything. Just like I mentioned earlier, I also have to support cloud on prim, I can't pick just to be on prim right, it so. >> I imagine the big cloud providers are in the same boat which I know some are your customers. You're betting on data, you're betting on digital and it's a good bet. >> Steven: Yeah, 100 percent. >> We're betting on data and AI, right. So I think data, you got to do something with the data, right? And analytics and AI is what people are doing with that data we have an advantage both at the hardware level and at the software level in these two I would say workloads or segments - which is data and AI, right. And we fundamentally have invested in the processor architecture to improve the performance and capabilities, right. You could offer a much larger AI models on a power system that you use than you can on an X86 system that you use. Right, that's one advantage. You can train and AI model four times faster on a power system than you can on an Intel Based System. So the clients who have a lot of data, who care about how fast their training runs, are the ones who are committing to power systems today. >> Mmm.Hmm. >> Latency requirements, things like that, really really big deal. >> So what that means for you as a practitioner is you can do more with less or is it I mean >> I can definitely do more with less, but the real value is that I'm able to get an outcome quicker. Everyone says, "Okay, you can just roll our more GPU's more GPU's, but run more experiments run more experiments". No no that's not actually it. I want to reduce the time for a an experiment Get it done as quickly as possible so I get that insight. 'Cause then what I can do I can get possibly cancel out a bunch of those jobs that are already running cause I already have the insight, knowing that that model is not doing anything. Alright, so it's very important to get the time down. Jeff Dean said it a few years ago, he uses the same slide often. But, you know, when things are taking months you know that's what happened basically from the 80's up until you know 2010. >> Right >> We didn't have the computation we didn't have the data. Once we were able to get that experimentation time down, we're able to iterate very very quickly on this. >> And throwing GPU's at the problem doesn't solve it because it's too much complexity or? >> It it helps the problem, there's no question. But when my GPU utilization goes from 95% down to 60% ya know I'm getting only a two-thirds return on investment there. It's a really really big deal, yeah. >> Sumit: I mean the key here I think Steven, and I'll draw it out again is this time to insight. Because time to insight actually is time to dollars, right. People are using AI either to make more money, right by providing better customer products, better products to the customers, giving better recommendations. Or they're saving on their operational costs right, they're improving their efficiencies. Maybe their routing their trucks in the right way, their routing their inventory in the right place, they're reducing the amount of inventory that they need. So in all cases you can actually coordinate AI to a revenue outcome or a dollar outcome. So the faster you can do that, you know, I tell most people that I engage with the hardware and software they get from us pays for itself very quickly. Because they make that much more money or they save that much more money, using power systems. >> We, we even see this internally I've heard stories and all that, Sumit kind of commented on this but - There's actually sales people that take this software & hardware out and they're able to get an outcome sometimes in certain situations where they just take the clients data and they're sales people they're not data scientists they train it it's so simple to use then they present the client with the outcomes the next day and the client is just like blown away. This isn't just a one time occurrence, like sales people are actually using this right. So it's getting to the area that it's so simple to use you're able to get those outcomes that we're even seeing it you know deals close quicker. >> Yeah, that's powerful. And Sumit to your point, the business case is actually really easy to make. You can say, "Okay, this initiative that you're driving what's your forecast for how much revenue?" Now lets make an assumption for how much faster we're going to be able to deliver it. And if I can show them a one day turn around, on a corpus of data, okay lets say two months times whatever, my time to break. I can run the business case very easily and communicate to the CFO or whomever the line of business head so. >> That's right. I mean just, I was at a retailer, at a grocery store a local grocery store in the bay area recently and he was telling me how In California we've passed legislation that does not allow plastic bags anymore. You have to pay for it. So people are bringing their own bags. But that's actually increased theft for them. Because people bring their own bag, put stuff in it and walk out. And he didn't want to have an analytic system that can detect if someone puts something in a bag and then did not buy it at purchase. So it's, in many ways they want to use the existing camera systems they have but automatically be able to detect fraudulent behavior or you know anomalies. And it's actually quite easy to do with a lot of the software we have around Power AI Vision, around video analytics from IBM right. And that's what we were talking about right? Take existing trained AI models on vision and enhance them for your specific use case and the scenarios you're looking for. >> Excellent. Guys we got to go. Thanks Steven, thanks Sumit for coming back on and appreciate the insights. >> Thank you >> Glad to be here >> You're welcome. Alright, keep it right there buddy we'll be back with our next guest. You're watching "The Cube" at IBM's CDO Strategy Summit from San Francisco. We'll be right back. (music playing)

>> Announcer: Live from downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit 2018, brought to you by IBM. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to San Francisco, everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We're covering the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit #ibmcdo. Ed Walsh is here. He's the General Manager of IBM Storage, and Steven Eliuk who's the Vice President of Deep Learning in the Global Chief Data Office at IBM, Steven. >> Yes, sir. >> Good to see you again. Welcome to The CUBE. >> Pleasure to be here. So there's a great story. We heard Inderpal Bhandari this morning talk about the enterprise data blueprint and laying out to the practitioners how to get started, how to implement, and we're going to have a little case study as to actually how you're doing this. But Ed, set it up for us. >> Okay, so we're at this Chief Data Officer Summit in the Spring, we do it twice a year and really get just Chief Data Officers together to think through their different challenges and actually share. So that's where we're at the Summit. And what we've, as IBM, as kind of try to be a foot forward, be that cognitive enterprise and showing very transparently what we're doing at our organization be more data-driven. And we've talked a bunch of different times. Everyone needs to be data-driven. Everyone wants to be data-driven, but it's really challenging for organizations. So what we're doing is with this blueprint which we're showing as a showcase, in fact you can actually physically come in and see our environment. But more importantly we're being very transparent on all the different components, high-level processes, what we did in governance, but also down to the Lilly Technology level and sharing that with our... Not because they want to do all of it, but maybe they want to do some of it or half of it, but it would be a blueprint that's worked. And then we're being transparent about what we're getting internally for our own transformation as IBM. Because really if we looked at this as a platform, it's really an enterprise cognitive data platform that all of IBM uses on all our transformation work. So our client, in fact, is Steven, and I think you can give what are we doing. By the way, it also, same type of infrastructure allows you to do what we did in the national labs, the largest supercomputers in the world, same infrastructure and the same thing we're trying to do, is make it easier for people to get insights from the data at scale in the enterprise. So that's why I want to bring Steven on. >> I joked with Inderpal. I said, "Well, if you can do it at IBM, "if you can do it there you can do it anywhere," (Ed laughing) because he's point oh. We're at a highly complex organization. So Steven, take us through how you got started and what you're doing. >> For sure, so I'm what's referred to probably as a difficult customer. So because we're so multifaceted we have so many different use cases internally in the orders of hundreds, it doesn't mean that I can just say, "Hey, this is a specific pattern that I need, Ed. "You need to make sure your hardware is sufficient in this area," because the next day I'm going to be hitting him and say, "Hey Ed, I need you to make sure "that it's also efficient in terms of bandwidth as well." And that's the beauty of working in this domain, is that I have those hundreds of use cases and it means that I'm hitting low latency requirements, bandwidth requirements, extensibility requirements because I have a huge number of headcount that I'm bringing on as well. And if I'm good now I don't have to worry about in six months to be stating, "Hey, I need to roll out new infrastructure "so I can support these new data scientists "and effectively so that they can get outcomes quicker." And I'd need to make sure that all the infrastructure behind the scenes is extensible and supports my users. And what I don't want them to have to worry about specifically is how that infrastructure works. I want them to focus on those use cases, those enterprise use cases, and I want them to touch as many of those use cases as possible. >> So Inderpal laid out sort of his five things that a CDO should do. He starts with develop a clear data strategy. So as the doer in the organization, how'd you go about doing that? Presumably you participated in that data strategy, but you're representing the lines of business presumably to make sure that it's of value to them. You can accelerate business value, but how did you start? I mean that's a big challenge, chewy. >> For sure, yeah, it's a huge challenge. And I think effectively curating, locating, governing, and quality aspects of that data is one of the first aspects. And where does that data reside, though, and how do we access it quickly? How does it support structured and unstructured data effectively? Those are all really important questions that had to come to light. And that's some of the approaches that we took. We look at the various business units and we look at are they curating the data correctly? Is it the data that we need? Maybe we have to augment that curation process before we actually are able to kind of apply new techniques, new machine-learning techniques, to that use case. There's a number of different aspects that kind of get rolled into that, and bringing effective storage and effective compute to the table really accelerates us in that journey. >> So Ed, what are the fundamental aspects of the infrastructure that supports this sort of emerging workload? >> Yeah, no, good question. And some of it is what we're going to talk about, what's a storage layer and what's a compute layer, but also what are the tools we're putting in place to use a lot of these open-source toolsets and make it easier for people to use but also use that underlying infrastructure better. So if you look at the high level, we use a storage infrastructure that is built for these AI workloads which is closer to an HPC workload. So the same infrastructure we use, we use the term ESS or elastic storage server. It's a combination. It's a turnkey solution, half rack, full rack. But it can start very small and grow to the biggest supercomputers in the world like what we're doing in the national labs, like the largest top five supercomputers in the world. But what that is is a file system called Spectrum Scale. Allows you to scale up at the performance but also low latency, gets added to the metadata but also high throughput. So we can do layers on that either on flash being all the hot tiers'll be on flash because it's not just the throughput you need which is high. So our lowest end box's close to like what, 26 gigabytes a second. Our highest one like national labs is 4.9 terabytes a second throughput. But it's also the low latency quick access. So we have a storage infrastructure but then we also have high-performance compute. So what we have is our Power Systems, our POWER9 Systems with GPUs, and the idea is how do you, we use the term feed the beast? How do you have the right throughput or IOPS to get the data close to that CPU or the GPU? The Power Systems have a unique bandwidth, so it's not like what you just find from a Comodo, the Intel servers. It's a much faster throughput, so it allows us to actually get data between the GPU CPU in storage or memory very fast. So you can get these deep learning times, and maybe you can share some of that. The learning times go up dramatically, so you get the insight. And then we're also putting layers on top which are IBM Cloud Private, is basically how do you have a hybrid cloud container-based service that allows you to move things seamlessly across and not have to wrestle with how to put all these things together either so it works seamlessly between a public cloud and private cloud? Then we have these toolsets, and I talked about this last time. It might not seem like storage or what you have in APU but we use the term PowerAI, is taking all these machine-learning tools because everyone always used open source. But we make them one more scale but also to ease your use. So how do you use a bunch of great GPUs and CPUs, great throughput, and how do you scale that? A lot of these tools were basically to be run on one CPU. So to be distributed, key research from IBM allows you to actually with PowerAI take the same TensorFlow workflows or dot dot dot and run it across a grid dramatically changing what you're doing from learning times. But anyway you can probably give more, I think, but it's a multiple layer. It's not one thing but it's not what you use for digital storage infrastructure, compute infrastructure for normal workloads. It is custom so you can't... A lot of people try to deploy maybe their NAS storage box and maybe it's flash and try to deploy it. And you can get going that way but then you hit a wall real quick. This is purposely built for AI. >> So Beth Smith was on earlier. She threw out a stat. She said that 85% of their, based on some research, I'm not sure if it was IBM or Forrest or Gartner, said 85% of customers they talked to said AI will be a competitive advantage but only 20% can use it today at scale. So obviously scale is a big challenge, and I want to ask you to comment on another potential challenge. We always talk about elastic infrastructure. You scale up, scale down, or end of month, okay. We sometimes use this concept of plastic infrastructure. Basically plastic maintains its shape because these workloads are so diverse. I don't want to have to rip down my infrastructure and bring in a new one every time my workload changes. So I wonder if you can talk about the sort of requirements from your perspective both in terms of scale and in terms of adaptability to changing workloads. >> Well, I think one of the things that Ed brought up that's really, really important is these open-source frameworks assume that it's running on a single system. They assume that storage is actually local, and that's really the only way that you get really effective throughput from it, is if it's local. So extending it via PowerAI, via these appliances and so forth means that you can use petabytes of storage at a distance and still have good throughput and not have those GP utilization coming down because these are very expensive devices. So if the storage is the blocker, is their controller and he's limiting that flow of data then ultimately you're not making the most effective use of those very expensive computational mediums. But more importantly it means that your time from ideation to product is slowed down, so you're not able to get those business outcomes. That means your competitor could get those business outcomes if they don't have it. And for me what's really important is I mentioned this briefly earlier, is that I need those specialists to touch as much of the data or as much as those enterprise use cases as possible. At the end of the year it's not about touching three use cases. It's the touching three this year, five, ten, more and more and more. And with the infrastructure being storage and computation, all of that is key attributes to kind of seeing that goal. >> Without having to rip that down and then repurpose building it every time. >> Steven: Yeah. >> And just being able to deal with the grid as a grid and you can place workloads across a grid. >> 100%. >> That's our Spectrum compute products that we've been doing for all the major banks in the world to do that and take these workloads and place them across a grid is also a key piece of this. So we always talk about the infrastructures being hey, Ed, that's not storage or infrastructure. No, you need that. And that's why it's part of my portfolio to actually build out the overall infrastructure for people to build on prim but also talk about everything we did with you on prim is hybrid. It's goes to the Cloud natively because some workloads we believe will be on the Cloud for good reasons, and you need to have that part of it. So everything we're going with you is hybrid cloud today, not in the future, today. >> No, 100%, and that's one of the requirements in our organization that we call A-1 architecture. If we write it for our own prim we have to be able to run it on the Cloud and it has to have the same look and feel and painted glass and things like that as well. So it means we only have to write it once, so we're incredibly efficient because we don't have to write it multiple times for different types of infrastructure. Likewise we have expectations from the data scientists that the performance all still have to be up to par as well. We want to really be moving the computation directly to where the data resides and we know that it's not just on prim, it's not in the Cloud, it's a hybrid scenario. >> So don't hate me for asking you this, Ed, but you've only been here for a couple years. Did you just stumble into this? You got this vast portfolio, you got this tooling, you got cloud. You got a part of your organization saying we got to do on prim. The other part's saying we got to do public. Or was this designed to the workload? Was kind of a little bit of both? >> Well, I think luck is good, but it's a embarrassment of riches inside IBM between our primary research, some of the things we were just talking about. How do you run these frameworks in a distributed fashion and not designed that way and do it performing at scale? That's our primary, that's research. That's not even in my group. What we're doing is for workload management. That's in storage, but we have these toolsets. The key thing is work with the clients to figure out what they're trying to do. Everyone's trying to be data-driven, so as we looked at what you need to do to be truly data-driven, it's not just having faster storage although that's important. It's not about the throughput or having to scale up. It's not about having just the CPUs. It's not just about having the open frameworks, but it's how to put that all together that we're invisible. In fact you said it earlier. He doesn't want his users to know at all what's underneath. He just wants to run their workload. You have people from my organization because I'm one of your customers. You're my customer but we go to you and say, "We're trying to use your platform "for a 360 view of the client," and our not data scientists, not data engineers, but ops team can use his platform. So anyway, so I actually think it's because IBM has its broad portfolio that we can bring together. And when IBM shows up which we're showing up in AI together in the Cloud, that's when you see something that we can truly do that you can't get from other organizations. And it's because of the technology differentiation we have from the different groups, but also the industry contacts that we bring. >> 100%. >> And also when you're dealing with data it is the trust. We can engage the clients at a high level and help them because we're not a single-product company. We might be more complex, but when we show up and bring the solution set we can really differentiate. And I think that's when IBM shows up. It's pretty powerful. >> And I think it's moved from "trust me" as well to "show me," and we're able to show it now because we're eating what we're producing. So we're showing. They called it a blueprint. We're using that effectively inside the organization. >> So now that you've sort of built this out internally you spend a lot of time with clients kind of showing them or...? >> Probably 15% of my time. >> So not that much. >> No, no, because I'm in charge of internal transformation operations. They're expecting outcomes from us. But at the same time there's clients that are in the exact same boat. The realization that this is really interesting. There's a lot of noise, a lot of interesting stuff in AI out there from Google, from Facebook, from Amazon, from all, Microsoft, but image recognition isn't important to me. How do I do it for my own organization? I have legacy data from 50 years. This is totally different, and there's no Git repo that I can go to and download them all and use it. It's totally custom, and how do I handle that? So it's different for these guys. >> What's on your wishlist? What's on Ed's to do list? >> Oh geez, uh... I want it so simple for my data scientists that they don't have to worry about where the data's coming from. Whether it be a traditional relational database or an object store, I want it to feed that data effectively and I don't want to have to have them looking into where the data is to make sure the computation's there. I want it just to flow effortlessly. That's really the wishlist. Likewise, I think if we had new accelerators in general outside the box, not something from the traditional GPU viewpoint, maybe data flow or something in new avant-garde-type stuff, that would be interesting because I think it might open up a new train of thought in the area just like GPUs did for us. >> Great story. >> Yeah I know, I think it's... So we're talking about AI for business, and I think what you're seeing is we're trying to showcase what IBM's doing to be really an AI business. And what we've done in this platform is really a showcase. So we're trying to be as transparent as possible not because it's the only way to do it but it's a good example of how a very complex business is using AI to get dramatically better and everyone's using the same kind of platform. >> Well, we learned, we effectively learned being open is much better than being closed. Look at the AI community. Because of its openness that's where we're at right now. And following the same lead we're doing the same thing, and that's why we're making everything available. You can see it and we're doing it, and we're happy to talk to you about it. >> Awesome, all right, so Steven, you stay here. >> Yeah. >> We're going to bring Sumit on and we're going to drill down into the cognitive platform. >> That's good. This guy, thanks for setting it up. I really, really appreciate it. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, good having you guys. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back at the IBM CDO Strategy Summit. You're watching theCUBE. 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>> Narrator: Live, from downtown San Francisco. It's theCUBE. Covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit 2018. Brought to you by IBM. (techno music) >> Welcome back to San Francisco everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante. And we are here at the IBM CDO Strategy Summit hashtag IBMCDO. Caitlin Halferty is here. She's a client engagement executive for the chief data officer at IBM. Caitlin great to see you again. >> Great to be here, thank you. >> And she's joined by Brandon Purcell, who's principal analyst at Forrester Research. Good to have you on. >> Thanks very much, thanks for having me. >> First time on theCUBE. >> Yeah. >> You're very welcome. >> I'm a newbie. >> Caitlin... that's right, you're a newbie. You'll be a Cube alum in no time, I promise you. So Caitlin let's start with you. This is, you've done a number of these CDO events. You do some in Boston, you do some in San Francisco. And it's really great to see the practitioners here. You guys are bringing guys like Inderpal to the table. You've announced your blueprint in it. The audience seems to be lapping up the knowledge transfer. So what's the purpose of these events? How has it evolved? And just set the table for us. >> Sure, so we started back in 2014 with our first Chief Data Officer Summit and we held that here in San Francisco. Small group, probably only had about 30 or 40 attendees. And we said let's make this community focused, peer to peer networking. We're all trying to, ya know, build the role of either the Chief Data Officer or whomever is responsible for enterprise wide data strategy for their company, a variety of different titles. And we've grown that event over, since 2014. We do Spring, in San Francisco, which tends to be a bit more on the technical side, given where we are here in San Francisco in Silicon Valley. And then we do our business focused sessions in Fall in Boston. And I have to say, it's been really nice to see the community grow from a small set of attendees. And now was are at about 130 that join us on each coast. So we've built a community in total of about 500 CDOs and data executives, >> Nice. that are with us on this journey, so they're great. >> And Brandon, your focus at Forrester, part of it is AI, I know you did some other things in analytics, the ethics of AI, which we're going to talk about. I have to ask you from Forrester's perspective, we're enter... it feels like we're entering this new era of there's digital, there's data, there's AI. They seem to all overlap. What's your point of view on all this? >> So, I'm extremely optimistic about the future of AI. I realize that the term artificial intelligence is incredibly hyped right now. But I think it will ultimately fulfill it's promise. If you think about the life cycle of analytics, analytics start their lives as customer data. As customers interact and transact with you, that creates a foot print that you then have to analyze to unleash some sort of insight. This customer's likely to buy, or churn, or belongs to a specific segment. Then you have to take action. The buzzwords of the past have really focused on one piece of that life cycle. Big data, the data piece. Not much value unless you analyze that. So then predictive analytics, machine learning. What AI promises to do is to synthesize all of those pieces, from data, to insights, to action. And continuously learn and optimize. >> It's interesting you talk about that in terms of customer churn. I mean, with the internet, there was like a shift in the balance of power to the consumer. There used to be that the brand had all the knowledge about the buyer. And then with the internet, we shop around, we walk into a store and, look at them. Then we go buy it on the internet right? Now that AI maybe brings back more balance, symmetry. I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Are the clients that you work with, trying to sort of regain that advantage? So they can better understand the customer. >> Yeah, well that's a great question. I mean, if there's one kind of central ethos to Forrester's research it's that we live in the age of the customer and understanding and anticipating customer needs is paramount to be able to compete, right? And so it's the businesses in the age of AI and the age of the customer that have the data on the customer and enable the ability to distill that into insights that will ultimately succeed. And so the companies that have been able to identify the right value exchange with consumers, to give us a sense of convenience, so that we're willing to give up enough personal data to satisfy that convenience are the ones that I think are doing well. And certainly Netflix and Amazon come to mind there. >> Well for sure, and of course that gets into the privacy and the ethics of AI. I mean everyone's making a big deal out of this. You own your data. >> Yeah. >> You're not trying to monetize, ya know, figure out which ad to click on. Maybe give us your perspective, Caitlin, on IBMs point of view there? >> Sure, so we lead with this thought around trusting your data. You're data's your data. Insights derive from that data, your insights. We spend a lot of time with our Watson Legal folks. And one of the things, pieces of material we've released today is the real detail at every level how you engage the traceability of where your data is. So you have a sense of confidence that you know how it's treated, how it's curated. If it's used in some third party fashion. The ability to know that, have visibility into it. The opt-out, opt-in opt-out set of choices. Making sure that we're not exploiting the network effect, where perhaps party C benefits from data exchange between A and B. That A and B do not, or do not have an opportunity to influence. And so what we wanted to do, here at the summit over the next couple of days is really share that in detail and our thoughts around it. And it comes back to trust and being able to have that viability and traceability of your data through the value chain. >> So of course Brandon, as a customer I'm paying IBM so I would expect that IBM would look out for my privacy and make that promise. I don't really pay Facebook right? But I get some value out of it. So what are the ethics of that? Is it a pay or no pay? Or is it a value or no value? Is it everybody really needs to play by the same rules? How to you parse all that? >> Ya know, I hate to use a vague term. But it's a reasonable expectation. Like I think that when a person interacts with Facebook, there is a reasonable expectation that they're not going to take that data and sell it or monetize it to some third party, like Cambridge Analytica. And that's where they dropped the ball in that case. But, that's just in the actual data collection itself. There's also, there are also inherent ethical issues in how the data is actually transformed and analyzed. So just because you don't have like specific characteristics or attributes in data, like race and gender and age and socioeconomic status, in a multidimensional data set there are proxies for those through something called redundant encoding. So even if you don't want to use those factors to make decisions, you have to be very careful because they're probably in there anyway. And so you need to really think about what are your values as a brand? And when can you actually differentiate treatment, based on different attributes. >> Because you can make accurate inferences from that. >> Brandon: Yeah you're absolutely (mumbles). >> And is it the case of actually acting on that data? Or actually the ability to act on that data? If that makes sense to you. In other words, if an organization has that data and could, in theory, make the inference, but doesn't. Is that crossing the line? Is it the responsibility of the organization to identify those exposures and make sure that they can not be inferred? >> Yeah, I think it is. I think that that is incumbent upon our organizations today. Eventually regulators are going to get around to writing rules around this. And there's already some going into effect of course in Europe, with GDPR at the end of this month. But regulators are usually slow to catch up. So for now it's going to have to be organizations that think about this. And think about, okay, when is it okay to treat different customers differently? Because if we, if we break that promise, customers are going to ultimately leave us. >> That's a hard problem. >> Right, right. >> You guys have a lot of these discussions internally? >> We do. >> And can you share those with us? >> Yeah, absolutely, we do. And we get a lot of questions. We often engage at the data strategy perspective. And it starts with, hey we've got great activity occurring in our business units, in our functional areas, but we don't really have a handle on the enterprise wide data strategy. And at that point we start talking about trust, and privacy, and security, and what is your what does your data flows look like. So it starts at that initial data strategy discussion. And one other thing I mentioned in my opening remarks this morning is, we released this blueprint and it's intended, as you said, to put a framework in process and reflect a lot of the lessons learned that we're all going through. I know you mentioned that many companies are looking at AI adoption, perhaps more so than we realized. And so the framework was intended to help accelerate that process. And then our big announcement today has been around the showcases, in particular our platform showcase. So it's really the platform we've built, within our organization. The components, the products, the capabilities that drives for us. And then with the intent of hopefully being, illustrative and helpful to clients that are looking to build similar capabilities. >> So let's talk about adoption. >> Brandon: Yeah, sure. >> Ya know, we... you often hear this bromide that we live in a world where, that pace of change is so fast. And things are changing so quickly it's hard to deny that. But then when you look at adoption of some of the big themes in our time. Whether it's big data or AI, digital, block chains, there are some major barriers to adoption. So you see them adopted in pockets. What's your perspective, and Forrester's perspective on adoption of, let's call it machine intelligence? >> Yeah, sure, so I mean, every year Forrester does a global survey of business and technology decision leaders called Business Technographics. And we ask folks about adoptions rates of certain technologies. And so when it comes to AI, globally, 52% of companies have adopted AI in some way. And another 20% plan to in the next 12 months. What's interesting to me, actually, is when you break that down geographically, the highest adoption rate, 60 plus percent, is in APAC, followed by North America, followed by Europe. And when you think about the privacy regulations in each of those geographies, well there are far fewer in APAC than there are, and will be, in Europe. And that's, I think kind of hamstringing adoption in that geography. Now is that a problem for Europe? I don't think so actually. I think AI, the way AI is going to be adopted in Europe is going to be more refined and respectful of customers' intrinsic right to privacy. >> Dave: Ya know I want... Go ahead. >> I've got to, I have to say Dave, I have to put a plug in. I've been a huge fan of Brandon's, for a long time. I've actually, ya know, a few years now of his research. And some of the research that you're mentioning, I hope people are reading it. Because we find these reports to be really helpful to understand, as you said, the specifics of adoptions, the trends. So I've got to put a plug in there. >> Thanks Caitlin. >> Because, the quality of the work and the insights are incredible. So that is why I was quite excited when Brandon accepted our offer to join us here in this session. >> Awesome. Yeah, so, let's dig into that a little bit. >> Brandon: Sure. >> So it seems like, so 52%, I'm wondering, what the other 48 are doing? They probably are, and they just don't know it. So it's possible that the study looks at, a strategy to adopt, presumably. I mean actively adopting. But it seems, I wonder if I could run this by you, get your comment. It seems that people will, organizations will more likely be buying AI as embedded in applications or systems or just kind of invisible. Then they won't necessarily be building it. I know many are trying to probably build it today. And what's your thought on that? In terms of just AI infused everywhere? >> So the first foray for most enterprises into this world of AI is chat bots for customer service. >> Dave: Sure. >> I mean we get a ton of inquires at Forrester about that. And there are a number of solutions. Ya know, IBM certainly has one for, that fulfill that need. And that's a very narrow use case, right? And it's also a value added of use case. If you can take more of those call center agents out of the loop, or at least accelerate or make them better at their jobs, then you're going to see efficiency gains. But this isn't this company wide AI transformation. It's just one very narrow use case. And usually that's, most elements of that are pre-built. We talked this morning, or the speakers this morning talked about commoditization of certain aspects of machine learning and AI. And it's very true. I mean, machine learning algorithms, many of them have been around for a long time, and you can access them for multiple different platforms. Even natural language processing, which a few years ago was highly inaccurate, is getting really, really accurate. So when, in a world where all of these things are commoditized, it's going to end up being how you implement them that's going to drive differentiation. And so, I don't think there's any problem with buying solutions that have been pre-built. You just have to be very thoughtful about how you use them to ultimately make decisions that impact the customer experience. >> I want to, in the time we have remaining, I want to get into the tech radar, the sort of taxonomy of AI or machine intelligence. You've done some work here. How do you describe, can you paint a picture, for what that taxonomy looks like? >> So I think most people watching realize AI is not one specific thing right? It's a bunch of components, technologies that stitched together lead to something that can emulate certain things that humans do, like sense the world around us, see, read, hear, that can think or reason. That's the machine learning piece. And that can then take action. And that's the kind of automation piece. And there are different core technologies that make up each of those faculties. The kind of emerging ones are deep learning. Of course you hear about it all the time. Deep learning is inherently the use of artificial neural networks, usually to take some unstructured data, let's say pictures of cats, and identify this is actually a cat right? >> Who would have thought? That we're led to this boom right? >> Right exactly. That was something you couldn't do five or six years ago, right? You couldn't actually analyze picture data like you analyze row and column data. So that's leading to a transformation. The problem there is that not a lot of people have this massive number of pictures of cats that are consistently and accurately labeled cat, not cat, cat, not cat. And that's what you need to make that viable. So a lot of vendors, and Watson has an API for this have already trained a deep neural network to do that so the enterprises aren't starting from scratch. And I think we'll see more and more of these kind of pre-trained solutions and companies gravitating towards the pre-trained solutions. And looking for differentiation, not in the solutions themselves, but again how they actually implement it to impact the customer experience. >> Hmmm, well that's interesting, just hearing you sense, see, read, hear, reason, act. These are words that describe not the past era. This is a new era that we're entering. We're in the cloud era now. We can sort of all agree with that. But these, the cloud doesn't do these things. We are clearly entering a new wave. Maybe it's driven by Watson's Law, or whatever holds out. Caitlin I'll give you the last word. Put a bumper sticker on this event, and where we're at here in 2018? >> I'll say, it's interesting to watch the themes evolve over the last few years. Ya know, we started with sort of a defensive posture. Most of our data executives were coming perhaps from an IT type background. We see a lot more with line of business, and chief operations type role. And we've seen the, we still king of the data warehouse, that's sort of how we described at the time. And now, I see our data leaders really driving transformation. They're responsible for both the data as well as the digital transformation. On the data side, it's the AI focus. And trying to really understand the deep learning capabilities, machine learning, that they're bringing to bear. So it's been, for me, it's been really interesting to see the topics evolve, see the role in the strategic piece of it. As well as see these guys elevated, in terms of influence within their organization. And then, our big topic this year was around AI and understanding it. And so, having Brandon to share his expertise was very exciting for me because, he's our lead analyst in the AI space. And that's what our attendees are telling us. They want to better understand, and better understand how to take action to implement and see those business results. So I think we're going to continue to see more of that. And yeah, it's been great to see, great to see it evolve. >> Well congratulations on taking the lead, this is a very important space. Ya know, a lot of people didn't really believe in it early on, thought the Chief Data Officer role would just sort of disappear. But you guys, I think, made the right investment and a good call, so congratulations on that. >> I was laughed out of the room when I proposed, I said hey we're hearing of this, doing a market scan of Chief Data Officer, either by title or something similar, titled responsible for enterprise wide data. I was laughed out of the room. I said let me do a qualitative piece. Let me interview 20 and just show, and then you're right, it was the thought was, role's going to go by the wayside. And I think we've seen the opposite. >> Oh yeah, absolutely. >> Data has grown in importance. The associative capabilities have grown. And I'm seeing these individuals, their scope, their sphere of responsibility really grow quite a bit. >> Yeah Forrester's tracked this. I mean, you guys I think just a few years ago was like eh, yeah 20% of organizations have a Chief Data Officer and now it's much much higher than that. >> Yeah, yeah, it's approaching 50%. >> Yeah, so, good. Alright Brandon, Caitlin, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you, it was great. >> Keep it right there everybody. We'll be back, at the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit. You're watching theCUBE. (techno music) (telephone tones)

>> Announcer: Live from downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit, 2018 brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to San Francisco everybody. We're here covering the IBM CDO strategy summit. You're watching theCUBE, the leader and live tech coverage hashtag IBM CDO. Beth Smith is here, she's the general manager at Watson data and AI at IBM and of course Inderpal Bandari who's the global chief data officer at IBM. Folks, welcome back to theCUBE. It's great to see you both again. >> Good to be back. >> So I love these shows, they're intimate, practitioner really they're absorbing everything. You're getting some good questions, some good back and forth but Beth share with us what you're hearing from customers. What matters for enterprises right now in the context of the cognitive enterprise, the AI enterprise. >> So you know customers are looking at how did they get the benefit? They recognize that they've got a lot of valuable data, data that we haven't always called data. Sometimes it's documents and journals and other kinds of really unstructured things and they want to determine how can they get value from that and they look out and compare it to maybe consumer things and recognize they don't have the same volume of that. So it's important for customers, how do they get started and I would tell you that most of them start with a small project, they see value with that quickly they then say, okay how do we increment and grow from that. >> So Inderpal you had said I think I got this right, this is your fourth CDO gig. You're not new to this rodeo. Were you the first healthcare CDO is that right? >> I was. >> Dave: Okay you got it all started. >> There were four of us at that time. >> Okay so forth and four okay I did get that right. So you obviously bring a lot of experience here and one of the things you stressed today in your talk is you basically want to showcase IBM so you're applying sort of data enterprise data strategies to IBM and then you showcase that to your clients. Talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah I mean if you think about it, we are the quintessential complex enterprise. We're global, we're far-flung, we have literally thousands of products. We acquire companies, we move forward at a global scale and also we are always competing at a global scale. So there literally is that complexity that enterprises face which all our customers who are the large enterprises have to also deal with. So given all that we felt that the best way to talk about an AI enterprise is to use ourselves as a showcase. >> Okay Beth, I got to ask you about Watson's law. Okay so we had Moore's law we all know what that is. Metcalfe's law the network effect, Watson's law and I have a noodling on this a little bit. We're entering a new era which I think is underscored by... and names matter. We use a parlance in our industry whether it's cloud or a big data or internet or whatever it is and so we're trying to sort of figure out what this new era is like. What do you envision as Watson's law. I'd love to have a little riff on that. >> So first of all as we look at all those things and compare them back, they're all about opportunities to scale and how things changed because of a new scaling effect. So I would argue that the one we're in now, which we like to call Watson's law the future will determine what it's actually called is about scaling knowledge and applying knowledge so it's about how to use AI machine learning applied to data, all forms of data and turn that into knowledge and that's what's going to separate people and I would tell you that's also going to come back and give the incumbents an opportunity because the incumbents are strong in their industries, in their domains, they can leverage the data that they have, the knowledge and experience they have and then use that for how do they disrupt and really become the disruptors of the future. >> So okay what about the math behind this? I'm kind of writing down some notes as you were talking so my version of Watson's law and love your comment is innovation in the future and the current is going to be a function of the data, your ability to apply AI or cognitive to that data and then your ability to your point scale, the cloud economics. Does that make sense to you guys, is that where innovation is going to come? >> It's true but I have to go back at this point Dave of knowledge so I think you take data and you take AI or machine learning and those are sort of your ingredients. The scaling factor is going to be on knowledge and how does that ultimately get applied. Cloud again gives us an ingredient if you will that can be applied to it but the thing that'll make the difference on it, just like networking was in the past and opened up opportunities around the internet is that in the other will be how folks use knowledge. It's almost like you could think of it as a learning era and how that's not just going to be about individuals but about companies and business models etc. >> So the knowledge comes from applying cognitive to the data and then being able to scale it. Okay and then Inderpal, how do I address the access issue? I've got many if not most incumbents data are in silos. The marketing department has data, the sales department has data, the customer service department has data. How do you as a CDO address that challenge? >> Well what you've got to do is use the technology to actually help you address that challenge. So building data lakes is a good start for both structured and unstructured data where you bring data that's traditionally been siloed together but that's not always possible. Sometimes you have to let the data be where they are but you at least have to have a catalog that tells you where all the data is so that an intelligent system can then reason about that when working with somebody on a particular use case actually help them find that data and help them apply it and use it. >> So that's a metadata challenge correct? >> It's a metadata challenge in the AI world because the metadata challenge has always been there but now you have the potential to apply AI to not just create metadata but then also to apply it effectively to help business users and subject matter experts who are not data experts find the right data and work it. >> You guys make a big deal about automating some of this stuff up front as the point of creation or use automating. Classification is a good example. How are you solving that problem from a technology perspective? >> Well some of our core Watson capabilities are all about classification and then customers use that. It can be what I will call a simple use case of email classification and routing. We have a client in France that has 350,000 emails a week and they use Watson for that level of classification. You look at all sorts of different kinds of ticketing things you look at AI assistants and it comes down to how do you really understand what the intent is here and I believe classification is one of the fundamental capabilities in the whole thing. >> Yeah it's been a problem that we've been trying to solve in this industry for a while kind of pre AI and you really there's not a lot you can do if you don't have good classification if you can't automate it then you can't scale. >> That's right. >> So from a classification standpoint, I mean it's a fundamental always been fundamental problem. Machines have gotten much better at it with the AI systems and so forth but there's also one aspect that's quite interesting which is now you have open loop systems so you're not just classifying based on data that was historically present and so in that sense you're confined to always repeat your mistakes and so forth. You hear about hedge funds that implode because their models are no longer applicable because there's a Black Swan event. Now with the AI systems you have the opportunity to tap the realtime events as they're going and actually apply that to the classification as well. So when Beth talks about the different APIs that we have available to do classification, we also have NLP APIs that allow you to bring to bare this additional stuff that's going on and go from a closed-loop classification to an open-loop one. >> So I want to ask you about the black box problem. If you think about AI, I was saying this in my intro, I know when I see a dog but if I have to describe how I actually came to that conclusion, it's actually quite difficult to do and computers can show me here's a dog or I joked in Silicon Valley. I don't know if you guys watch that show Silicon Valley. Hot dog or not so your prescription at IBM is to make a white box, open that up, explain to people which I think is vitally important because when line of business people get in the room. like how'd you get to that answer and then it's going to be it's going to actually slow you down if you have arguments but how do you actually solve that black box problem? >> It's a much harder problem obviously but there are a whole host of reasons as to why you should look at it that way. One is we think it's just good business practice because when people are making business decisions they're not going to comply unless they really understand it. From my previous stint at IBM when I was working with the coaches of the NBA, they would not believe what patterns were being put forward to them until such time as we tied it to the video that showed what was actually going on. So it's that same aspect in terms of being able to explain it but there's also fundamentally more important reasons as well. You mentioned the example of looking at a dog and saying that's a dog but not being able to describe it. AI systems have that same issue. Not only that what we're finding is that you can take an AI system and you can just tweak a little bit of the data so that instead of recognizing it as a dog now it's completely fooled and it will recognize it as a rifle or something like that. Those are adversarial examples. So we think that taking this white box approach sets us up not just tactically and from a business standpoint but also strategically from a technical standpoint because if a system is able to explain it, describe it and really present its reasoning, it's not going to be fooled that easily either. >> Some of the themes that we hear from IBM, you own your own data, the Facebook blowback has actually been an unbelievable tailwind for that meme and most of the data in the world is not publicly searchable. So build on those themes and talk about how IBM is helping its customers take advantage of those two dynamics. >> So they kind of go hand-in-hand in the sense that because customers have most of the data behind their firewall if you will, within their business walls it means it's unlikely that it's annotated and labeled and used for a lot of these systems so we're focusing on how do we put together techniques to allow systems to learn more with less data. So that goes hand-in-hand with that. That's also back to the point of protecting your data because as we protect your data, you and your competitor we cannot mix that data together to improve the base models that are a part of it so therefore we have to do techniques that allow you to learn more with less data. One of the simplest thing is around the customization. I mean we're coming up on two years since we provided the capability to do custom models on top of visual recognition, Watson visual recognition. The other guys have been bragging about it in the last four to five months. We've been doing it in production with clients, will be two years in July so you'd say okay, well what's that about? We can end up training a base model that understands some of the basics around visual type things like your dog example and some other things but then give you the tools to very quickly and easily create your custom one that now allows you to better understand equipment that may be natural to you or how it's all installed or agricultural things or rust on a cell phone tower or whatever it may be. I think that's another example of how this all comes about to say that's the part that's important to you as a company, that's part that has to be protected that also has to be able to learn with you only spending a few days and a few examples to train it, not millions and billions. >> And that base layer is IBM, but the top layer is client IP and you're guaranteeing the clients that my IP won't seep into my competitors. >> So our architecture is one that separates that. We have hybrid models as a part of it and that piece that as you said is the client piece is separate from the rest of it. We also do it in such a way that you could see there could be a middle layer in there as well. Let's call it industry or licensed data so maybe it comes from a third party, it's not owned by the client but it's something that's again licensed not public as a part of it. That's a part of what our architecture is-- >> And you guys, we saw the block diagrams in there. You're putting together solutions for clients and it's a combination of your enterprise data architecture and you actually have hardware and software components that you can bring to bear here. Can you describe that a little bit? >> Go ahead, it's your implementation. >> Yeah so we've got again the perfect example of a large enterprise. There's significant on-prem implementations, there's private cloud implementations, there's public cloud implementations. You've got to bridge all that and do it in a way that makes it seamless and easy for an enterprise to adopt so we've worked through all that stuff. So we've learned things the hard way about well if you're truly going to do an AI data lake, you better have it on flash. For that reason we have it on flash on-prem but also on the cloud, our storage is on flash and so we were able to make those types of decisions so that we've learned through this, we want to share that with our clients. How do you involve deep learning in this space, well it's going to be proximate to your data lake so that the servers can get to all that data and run literally thousands and thousands of experiments in time that it's going to be useful for the decision. So all those hard learnings we are packaging that in the form of these showcases. We're bringing that forward but right now it's around hybrid cloud and the bridge so that because we want to talk about everything and then going forward it's all public cloud as we leverage that for the elasticity of the computer. >> Well IBM if you can do it there you can do it anywhere. It's a highly complex organization. So it's been what two years in for you now two? >> Little over two years. >> So you're making a lot of progress and I could see the practitioners eating this stuff up and that's got to feel good. I mean you have an impact obviously. >> It absolutely feels very good and I'm always in fact I kind of believe this coming into IBM that this is a company that has not only a number of products that are pertinent to this space but actually the framework to create an AI enterprise. These are not like disparate products. These are all going towards creating an AI enterprise and I think if you look across our portfolio of products and then you kind of map that back to our showcases, you'll see that come to life but in a very tangible way that yes if you truly want to create an AI enterprise, IBM is the place to be because they've got the answers across all the dimensions of the problem as opposed to just one specific dimension like let's say a data mining algorithm or something machine learning and that's basically it. When we cover the full gamut and you have to otherwise you can't really create an AI enterprise. >> In the portfolio obviously coming together IBM huge ambitions with with Watson and everybody's familiar with the ads and so you've done a great job of getting that you know top of mind but you're really starting to work with clients to implement this stuff. I know we got to end here but you had thrown out of stat 85% of executive CAI as a competitive advantage but only 20% can use it at scale so there's still that big gap, you're obviously trying to close that gap. >> Yeah so in a way I would correct it only 20% of them are using it at scale. I think Dave it's a part of how do they get started and I think that comes back to the fact that it shouldn't be a large transformational, scary multi-year project. It is about taking small things, starting with two or three or five use cases and growing and scaling that way and that's what our successful customers are doing. We give it to them in a way that they can use it directly or we leverage it within a number of solutions, like cyber security, like risk and compliance for financial services like health care that they can use it in those solution areas as well. >> Guys thanks so much for coming to theCUBE and sharing your story. We love coming to these events you see guys I used to say you see the practitioners, it's a board level discussion and these guys are right in it so good to see you guys, thank you. >> You too, thank you. >> You're welcome, all right keep it right to everybody, we'll be back with our next guest you're watching theCUBE live from the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit in San Francisco, we'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit, 2018, brought to you by IBM. (techno music) >> Welcome to San Francisco everybody. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, and we're at the IBM CDO Strategy Summit, #IBMCDO. The chief data officer role emerged about a decade ago, and it was typically focused in regulated industries, health care, financial services, and government. And it sort of emerged from a dark, back office role of governance and compliance and data quality. But increasingly as the big data wave came to the market, people realized there was an opportunity to take that sort of wonky back office governance, compliance, discipline, and really point it toward generating value, whether that was with direct monetization of data or contributing to an organization's data strategy. And, over the next five to seven years, that chief data officer role... Couple things happen, one is got much much deeper into those regulated industries, but also permeated other non-regulated industries beyond those three that I mentioned. IBM is an organization that has targeted the chief data officer role as a key constituency as part of what IBM calls the cognitive enterprise. And IBM hosts shows in Boston and San Francisco each year, gathering chief data officers, about 100 to 150 chief data officers, in each city. These are very focused and targeted events that comprise of chief data officers, data analytics officers, and the like, people focused sometimes on compliance and governance. They're very intimate events and today, we heard from a number of IBM experts, Inderpal Bhandari, who's been on theCUBE a number of times, who is IBM's global chief data officer, laying out, sort of a blueprint, an enterprise blueprint, for data strategy. So the audience is filled with practitioners who are really sort of lapping up sort of the how to implement some of these techniques, and ultimately platforms. IBM has put together solutions, that not only involve, of course, Watson, but also some of the other components, whether its cognitive systems, governance systems, compliance systems, to create a solution that chief data officers and their colleagues can implement. So, this morning we heard about the cognitive enterprise blueprint, what IBM calls the AI enterprise, or the cognitive enterprise, talking about organizational issues. How do you break down silos of data? If you think about most incumbent organizations, the data lives in silos. It may be data in the marketing department, data in the sales department, data in the customer service department, data in the maintenance department. So these are sort of separate silos of data. How do you break those down? How do you bring those together so you can compete with some of these born digital AI-oriented companies, the likes of, just the perfect example is Facebook, Google, LinkedIn, et cetera, who have these sort of centralized data models. How do you take an existing organization, break down those silos, and deal with a data model that is accessible by everyone who needs to access that data, and as well, very importantly, make it secure, make it enterprise-ready. The other thing that IBM talked about was process. We always talk about on theCUBE, people, process, and technology. Technology is the easiest piece of that. It's the people and process components of that matrix that you need to really focus on before you even bring in the technology, and then, of course, there is the technology component. IBM is a technology company. We've heard about Watson. IBM has a number of hardware and software components that it brings to bear to try to help organizations affect their data strategy, and be more effective in the marketplace. So, as I say this is about 130, 150 chief data officers. We heard from Kaitlin Lafferty, who's going to come on a little later. She's going to be my quasi-co-host, which will be interesting. Beth Smith, who is the GM of Watson Data. She talked a lot about use cases. She gave an example of Orange Bank, a totally digital bank, using Watson to service customers. You can't call this bank. And they've got some interesting measurements that they'll share with us in terms of customer satisfaction and born-digital or all-digital bank. She also talked about partnerships that they're doing, not directly, sort of indirectly I inferred, she talked about IT service management embedding Watson into the IT service management from an HR perspective. I believe that she was referring to, even though she didn't mention it, a deal that IBM struck with ServiceNow. IBM's got similar deals with Watson with Salesforce. Salesforce Einstein is based on Watson. So what you're seeing is embedding AI into different applications, and we've talked about this a lot at siliconANGLE and theCUBE and at Wikibon. It's really those embedded use cases for AI that are going to drive adoption, as opposed to generalized horizontal AI. That seems to be not the recipe for adoption success, really more so specific use cases. I mean the obvious ones are some consumer ones, and even in the enterprise as well: security, facial recognition, natural language processing, for example. Very specific use cases for AI. We also heard from Inderpal Bhandari, the global chief data officer of IBM, talking about the AI enterprise, really showcasing IBM as a company that is bringing this AI enterprise to itself, and then teaching, sharing that knowledge with its clients and with its customers. I really like talking to Inderpal Bhandari. I learn a lot from him. This is his fourth CDO gig, okay. He was the very first CDO ever in health care when there, I mean I think he was the first of four or one of four, first CDOs in health care. Now there are thousands. So this is his fourth gig as a CDO. He talks about what a CDO has to do to get started, starting with a clear data strategy. When I've talked to him before, he said, he mentioned, how does data contribute to the monetization of your organization? Now it's not always monetization. If it's a non-public company or a health care company, for example, that's not-for-profit, it's not necessarily a monetization component, it's more of a how does it effect your strategy. But that's number one is sort of, how does data drive value for you organization? The second is, how do you implement the system that's based on governance and security? What's the management system look like? Who has data and who has access to that data? How do you affect privacy? And then, how do you become a central source for that AI-framework, being a service organization essentially to the entire organization? And then, developing deep analytics partnerships with lines of business. That's critical, because the domain expertise for the business is obviously going to live in the line of business, not in some centralized data organization. And, then, finally, very importantly, skills. What skills do you need, identify those skills, and then how do you get those people? How do you both train internally and find those people externally? Very hard to find those skills. He talked about AI systems having four attributes. Number one is expertise, domain knowledge. AI systems have to be smart about the problem that they're trying to solve. Natural human interaction, IBM talks about natural language processing, a lot of companies do. Everybody's familiar with the likes of Alexa, Google Home, and Siri. Well IBM Watson also has an NLP capability that's quite powerful. So that's very important. And interestingly he talked about, I'll ask him about this, the black box phenomenon. Most AI is a black box. If you think about it, AI can tell you if you're looking at a dog, but think about your own human frame. How do you know when you're actually seeing a dog? Try to explain to somebody someday how you go about recognizing that animal. It's sort of hard to do. Systems today can tell you that if it's a dog or for you Silicon Valley watchers, hot dog. But, it's a black box. What IBM is saying is no, we can't live with a black box in the enterprise. We have to open up that black box, make it a white box, and share with our customers exactly how that decision is being made. That's an interesting problem that I want to talk to him about. And then, next, the third piece is learning through education. How do you learn at scale? And then the fourth piece was, how do you evolve, how do you iterate, how do you become auto-didactic or self-learning with regard to the system and getting better and better and better over time. And that sets a foundation for this AI enterprise or cognitive enterprise blueprints, where the subject matter expert can actually interact with the system. We had some questions from the audience. One came up on cloud and security concerns, not surprising. Data exposure, how do you automate a lot of this stuff and provide access, at the same time ensuring privacy and security. So IBM's going to be addressing that today. So, we're here all day, wall-to-wall coverage of the IBM CDO Strategy Summit, #IBMCDO. Of course, we're running multiple live programs today. I'm covering this show in San Francisco. John Furrier is in Copenhagen at KubeCon with The Linux Foundation. Stu Miniman is holding down the fort with a very large crew at Dell Technology's World. So keep it right there everybody. This is theCUBE at IBM's CDO Strategy Summit in San Francisco. We'll be right back after this short break. (techno music) (dial tones)

(hip-hop music) (electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit Spring 2017. Brought to you by IBM. (crowd) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Fricke here with Peter Burris. We're wrapping up a very full day here at the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit Spring 2017, Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco. An all-day affair, really an intimate affair, 170 people, but Chief Data Officers with their peers, sharing information, getting good information from IBM. And it's an interesting event. They're doing a lot of them around the country, and eventually around the world. And we're excited to have kind of the power behind the whole thing. (laughing) Caitlin Lepech, she's the one who's driving the train. Don't believe the guys in the front. She's the one behind the curtain that's pulling all the levers. So we wanted to wrap the day. It's been a really good day, some fantastic conversations, great practitioners. >> Right. >> Want to get your impression of the day? Right, it's been great. The thing I love about this event the most is this is all client-led discussion, client-led conversation. And we're quite fortunate in that we get a lot leading CDOs to come join us. I've seen quite a number this time. We tried something new. We expanded to this 170 attendees, by far the largest group that we've ever had, so we ran these four breakout session tracks. And I am hearing some good feedback about some of the discussions. So I think it's been a good and full day (laughing). >> Yes, it has been. Any surprises? Anything that kind of jumped out to you that you didn't expect? >> Yeah, a couple of things. So we structure these breakout sessions... Pointed feedback from last session was, Hey, we want the opportunity to network with peers, share use cases, learn from each other, so I've got my notes here, and that we did a function builder. So these are all our CDOs that are starting to build the CDO office. They're new in the journey, right. We've got our data integrators, so they're really our data management, data wranglers, the business optimizers, thinking about how do I make sure I've got the impact throughout the business, and then market innovators. And one of the surprises is how many people are doing really innovative things, and they don't realize it. They tell me-- >> Jeff: Oh, really. >> Ahhh, I'm just in the early stages of setting up the office. I don't have the good use cases to share. And they absolutely do! They absolutely do! So that's always the surprise, is how many are actually quite more innovative than I think they give themselves credit. >> Well, that was a pretty consistent theme that came out today, is that you can't do all the foundational work, and then wait to get that finished before you start actually innovating delivering value. >> If you want to be successful. >> (laughing) Right, and keep your job (laughing) If you're one of the 41%. So you have to be parallel tracking, that first process'll never finish, but you've got to find some short-term wins that you can execute on right away. >> And that was one of our major objectives and sort of convening this event, and continuing to invest in the CDO community, is how do I improve the failure rate? We all agree, growth in the role, okay. But over half are going to fail. >> Right. >> And we start to see some of these folks now that they're four, six years in having some challenges. And so, what we're trying to do is reduce that failure rate. >> Jeff: Yeah, hopefully they-- >> But still four to six years in is still not a bad start. >> Caitlin: Yeah, yeah. >> There's most functions that fail quick... That fail tend to fail pretty quickly. >> Yeah. >> So one of the things that I was struck by, and I want to get your feedback on this, is that 170 people, sounds like a lot. >> Caitlin: Yeah, yeah. >> But it's not so much if there is a unity of purpose. >> Caitlin: Correct, correct! >> If there's pretty clear understanding of what it is they do and how they do it, and I think the CDO's role is still evolving very rapidly. So everybody's coming at this from a different perspective. And you mentioned the four tracks. But they seem to be honing in on the same end-state. >> Absolutely. >> So talk about what you think that end-state is. Where is the CDO in five years? >> Absolutely, so I did some live polling, as we kicked off the morning, and asked a couple of questions along those lines. Where do folks report? I think we mentioned this-- >> Right. >> When we kicked off. >> Right. >> A third to the CEO, a third to CIO, and a third to a CXO-type role, functional role. And reflected in the room was about that split. I saw about a third, third, third. And, yet, regardless of where in the organization, it's how do we get data governance, right? How do we get data management, right? And then there's this, I think, reflection around, okay, machine learning, deep learning, some of these new opportunities, new technologies. What sort of skills do we need to deliver? I had an interesting conversation with a CDO that said, We make a call across the board. We're not investing to build these technical skills in-house because we know in two years the guys I had doing Python and all that stuff, it's on to the next thing. And now I've got to get machine learning, deep learning, two years I need to move to the next. So it's more identifying technologies in partnership bringing those and bringing us through, and driving the business results. >> And we heard also very frequently the role the politics played. >> Caitlin: Oh, absolutely. >> And, in fact, Fow-wad Boot from-- >> Kaiser. >> Kaiser Permanente, yeah. >> Specifically talked about this... He's looking in the stewards that he's hiring in his function. He's looking for people that have learned the fine art of influencing others. >> And I think it's a stretch for a lot of these folks. Another poll we did is, who comes from an engineering, technical background. A lot of hands in the room. And we're seeing more and more come from line of business, and more and more emphasize the relationship component of it, relationship skills, which is I think is very interesting. We also see a high number of women in CDO roles, as compared to other C-suite roles. And I like to think, perhaps, it has to do-- >> Jeff: Right, right. >> With the relationship component of it as well because it is... >> Jeff: Yeah, well-- >> Peter: That's interesting. I'm not going to touch it, but it's interesting (laughing). >> Well, no, we were-- >> (laughing) I threw it out there. >> We were at the Stanford-- >> No, no, we-- >> Women in Data Science event, which is a phenomenal event. We've covered it for a couple years, and Jayna George from Western Digital, phenomenal, super smart lady, so it is an opportunity, and I don't think it's got so much of the legacy stuff that maybe some of the other things had that people can jump in. Diane Green kicked it off-- >> Yeah. >> So I think there is a lot of examples women doing their own thing in data science. >> Yeah, I agree, and I'll give you another context. In another CUBE, another event, I actually raised that issue, relationships, because men walk into a room, they get very competitive very quickly, who's the smartest guy in the room. And on what days is blah, blah, blah. And we're talking about the need to forge relationships that facilitate influence. >> Absolutely. >> And sharing of insight and sharing of knowledge. And it was a woman guest, and she... And I said, Do you see that women are better at this than others? And she looked at me, she said, Well, that's sexist. (laughing). And it was! I guess it kind of was. >> Right, right. >> But do you... You're saying that it's a place where, perhaps, women can actually take a step into senior roles in a technology-oriented space. >> Yeah. >> And have enormous success because of some of the things that they bring to the table. >> Yeah, one quote stuck with me is, when someone comes in with great experience, really smart, Are they here to hurt me or help me? And the trust component of it and building the trust, And I think there is one event we do here, the second day of all of our CDO summits, so women in breakfast, the data divas' breakfast. And we explore some opportunities for women leaders, and it was well-attended by men and women. And I think there really is when you're establishing a data strategy for your entire organization, and you need lines of business to contribute money and funding and resources, and sign off, there is I feel sometimes like we're on the Hill. I'm back in D.C., working on Capitol Hill (laughing), and we're shopping around to deliver, so absolutely. Another tying back to what you mentioned about something that was surprising today, we started building out this trust as a service idea. And a couple people on panels mentioned thinking about the value of trust and how you instill trust. I'm hearing more and more about that, so that was interesting. >> We actually brought that up. >> Caitlin: Oh, did you! >> Yeah, we actually brought it up here in theCUBE. And it was specifically and I made an observation that when you start thinking about Watson and you start thinking about potentially-competitive offerings at some point in time they're going to offer alternative opinions-- >> Absolutely. >> And find ways to learn to offer their opinions better than their's just for competitive purposes. >> Absolutely. >> And so, this notion of trust becomes essential to the brand. >> Absolutely. >> My system is working in your best interest. >> Absolutely. >> Not my best interest. And that's not something that people have spent a lot of time thinking about. >> Exactly, and what it means when we say, when we work with clients and say, It's your data, your insight. So we certainly tap that information-- >> Sure. >> And that data to train Watson, but it's not... We don't to keep that, right. It's back to you, but how do you design that engagement model to fulfill the privacy concerns, the ethical use of data, establish that trust. >> Right. >> I think it's something we're just starting to really dig into. >> But also if you think about something like... I don't know if you ever heard of this, but this notion of principal agent theory. >> Umm-hmm. >> Where the principal being the owner, in typical-- >> Right. >> Economic terms. The agent being the manager that's working on behalf of the owner. >> Right. >> And how do their agendas align or misalign. >> Right. >> The same thing is just here. We're not talking about systems that have... Are able to undertake very, very complex problems. >> Right. >> Sometimes will do so, and people will sit back and say, I'm not sure how it actually worked. >> Yeah. >> So they have to be a good agent for the business. >> Absolutely, absolutely, definitely. >> And this notion of trust is essential to that. >> Absolutely, and it's both... It originated internally, right, trying to trust the answers you're getting-- >> Sure! >> On a client. Who's our largest... Where's our largest client opportunity, you get multiple answers, so it's kind of trusting the voracity of the data, but now it's also a competitive differentiator. As a brand you can offer that to your client. >> Right, the other big thing that came up is you guys doing it internally, and trying to drive your own internal transformation at IBM, which is interesting in of itself, but more interesting is the fact that (laughing) you actually want to publish what you're doing and how you did it-- >> Yeah. >> As a road map. I think you guys are calling it the Blueprint-- >> Yes. >> For your customers. And talk about publishing that actually in October, so I wonder if you can share a little bit more color around what exactly is this Blueprint-- >> Sure. >> How's it's going to be exposed? >> What should people look forward to? >> Sure, I'm very fortunate in that Inderpal Bhandari when he came on board as IBM's First Chief Data Officer, said, I want to be completely transparent with clients on what we're doing. And it started with the data strategy, here's how we arrived at the data strategy, here's how we're setting up our organization internally, here's how we're prioritizing selecting use cases, so client prefixes is important to us, here's why. Down at every level we've been very transparent about what we're doing internally. Here's the skill sets I'm bringing on board and why. One thing we've talked a lot about is the Business Unit Data Officer, so having someone that sits in the business unit responsible for requirements from the unit, but also ensuring that there's some level of consistency at the enterprise level. >> Right. >> So, we've had some Business Unit Data Officers that we've plucked (laughing) from other organizations that have come and joined IBM last year, which is great. And so, what we wanted to do is follow that up with an actual Blueprint, so I own the Blueprint for Inderpal, and what we want to do is deliver it along three components, so one, the technology component, what technology can you leverage. Two, the business processes both the CDO processes and the enterprise, like HR, finance, supply chain, procurement, et cetera. And then finally the organizational considerations, so what sort of strategy, culture, what talent do you need to recruit, how do you retain your existing workforce to meet some of these new technology needs. And then all the sort of relationship piece we were talking about earlier, the culture changes required. >> Right. >> How do you go out and solicit that buy-in. And so, our intent is to come back around in October and deliver that Blueprint in a way that can be implemented within organization. And, oh, one thing we were saying is the homework assignment from this event (laughing), we're going to send out the template. >> Right. And our version of it, and be very transparent, here's how we're doing it internally. And inviting clients to come back to say-- >> Right. >> You need to dig in deeper here, this part's relevant to me, along the information governance, the master data management, et cetera. And then hopefully come back in October and deliver something that's really of value and usable for our clients across the industry. >> So for folks who didn't make it today, too bad for them. >> Exactly, we missed them, (laughing) but... >> So what's the next summit? Where's it's going to be, how do people get involved? Give us a kind of a plug for the other people that wished they were here, but weren't able to make it today. >> Sure, so we will come back around in the fall, September, October timeframe, in Boston, and do our east coast version of this summit. So I hope to see you guys there. >> Jeff: Sure, we'll be there. >> It should be a lot of fun. And at that point we'll deliver the Blueprint, and I think that will be a fantastic event. We committed to 170 data executives here, which fortunately we were able to get to that point, and are targeting a little over 200 for the fall, so looking to, again, expand, continue to expand and invite folks to join us. >> Be careful, you're going to be interconnected before you know. >> (laughing) No, no, no, I want it small! >> (laughing) Okay. >> And then also as I mentioned earlier, we're starting to see more industry-specific financial services, government. We have a government CDO summit coming up, June six, seven, in Washington D.C. So I think that'll be another great event. And then we're starting to see outside of the U.S., outside of North America, more of the GO summits as well, so... >> Very exciting times. Well, thanks for inviting us along. >> Sure, it's been a great day! It's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much! >> (laughing) Alright, thank you, Caitlin. I'm Jeff Fricke with Peter Burris. You're watching theCUBE. We've been here all day at the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit, that's right the Spring version, 2017, in Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (electronic music) (upbeat music)

(dramatic music) >> Narrator: Live from Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco. It's theCube. Covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit Spring 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frank here with theCube. We are wrapping up day one at the IBM CEO Strategy Summit Spring 2017 here at the Fisherman's Wharf Hyatt. A new venue for us, never been here. It's kind of a cool venue. Joined by Peter Burris, Chief Research Officer from Wikibon, and we're excited to have practitioners. We love getting practitioners on. So we're joined by this segment by Bruce Tyler. He's a VP Data Analytics for IBM Global Business Services. Bruce, nice to see you. >> Thank you. >> And he's brought along Fawad Butt, the Chief Data Governance Officer for Kaiser Permanente. Welcome. >> Thank you, thank you. >> So Kaiser Permanente. Regulated industry, health care, a lot of complex medical issues, medical devices, electronic health records, insurance. You are in a data cornucopia, I guess. >> It's data heaven all the way. So as you mentioned, Kaiser is a vertically integrated organization, Kaiser Permanente is. And as such the opportunity for us is the fact that we have access to a tremendous amount of data. So we sell insurance, we run hospitals, medical practices, pharmacies, research labs, you name it. So it's an end to end healthcare system that generates a tremendous amount of dataset. And for us the real opportunity is to be able to figure out all the data we have and the best uses for it. >> I guess I never really thought of it from the vertical stack perspective. I used to think it was just the hospital, but the fact that you have all those layers of the cake, if you will, and can operate within them, trade data within them, and it gives you a lot of kind of classic vertical stack integration. That fits. >> Very much so. And I didn't give you the whole stack. I mean, we're actually building a medical school in Southern California. We have a residency program in addition to everything else we've talked about. But yeah, the vertical stack does provide us access to data and assets related to data that are quite unique. On the one side, it's a great opportunity. On the other side, it has to be all managed and protected and served in the best interest of our patrons and members. >> Jeff: Right, right. And just the whole electronic health records by themselves that people want access to that, they want to take them with. But then there's all kinds of scary regulations around access to that data. >> So the portability, I think what you're talking about is the medical record portability, which is becoming a really new construct in the industry because people want to be able to move from practitioner to practitioner and have that access to records. There are some regulation that provide cover at a national scale but a lot of this also is impacted by the states that you're operating in. So there's a lot of opportunities where I can tell some of the regulation in this space over time and I think that will, then we'll see a lot more adoption in terms of these portability standards which tend to be a little one off right now. >> Right, right. So I guess the obvious question is how the heck do you prioritize? (laughter) You got a lot of things going on. >> You know, I think it's really the standard blocking/tackling sort of situation, right? So one of the things that we've done is taken a look at our holistic dataset end to end and broken it down into pieces. How do you solve this big problem? You solve it by piecing it out a little bit. So what we've done is that we've put our critical dataset into a set of what we call data domains. Patient, member, providers, workers, HR, finance, you name it. And then that gives us the opportunity to not only just say how good is our data holistically but we can also go and say how good is our patient data versus member data versus provider data versus HR data. And then not only just know how good it is but it also gives us the opportunity to sort of say, "Hey, there's no conceivable way we can invest "in all 20 of these areas at any given point." So what's the priority that aligns with business objectives and goals? If you think about corporate strategy in general, it's based on customers and demand and availability and opportunities but now we're adding one more tool set and giving that to our executives. As they're making decisions on investments in longer term, and this isn't just KP, it's happening across industries, is that the data folks are bringing another lens to the table, which is to say what dataset do we want to invest in over the course of the next five years? If you had to choose between 20, what are the three that you prioritize first versus the other. So I think it's another lever, it's another mechanism to prioritize your strategy and your investments associated with that. >> But you're specifically focused on governance. >> Fawad: I am. >> In the health care industry, software for example is governed by a different set of rules as softwares in other areas. Data is governed by a different set of rules than data is governed in most other industries. >> Fawad: Correct. >> Finance has its own set of things and then some others. What does data governance mean at KP? Which is a great company by the way. A Bay Area company. >> Absolutely. >> What does it mean to KP? >> It's a great question, first of all. Every data governance program has to be independent and unique because it should be trying to solve for a set of things that are relevant in that context. For us at KP, there are a few drivers. So first is, as you mentioned, regulation. There's increased regulation. There's increased regulatory scrutiny in pressure. Some things that have happened in financial services over the last eight or ten years are starting to come and trickle in to the healthcare space. So there's that. There's also a changing environment in terms of how, at least from an insurance standpoint, how people acquire health insurance. It used to be that your employer provided a lot of that, those services and those insurances. Now you have private marketplaces where a lot of people are buying their own insurance. And you're going from a B2B construct to a B2C construct in certain ways. And these folks are walking around with their Android phones or their iPhones and they're used to accessing all sorts of information. So that's the customer experience that you to to deliver to them. So there's this digital transformation that's happening that's driving some of the need around governance. The other areas that I think are front and center for us are obviously privacy and security. So we're custodians of a lot of datasets that relate to patients' health information and their personal information. And that's a great responsibility and I think from a governance standpoint that's one of the key drivers that define our focus areas in the governance space. There are other things that are happening. There's obviously our mission within the organization which is to deliver the highest coverage and care at the lowest cost. So there's the ability for us to leverage our data and govern our data in a way which supports those two mission statements, but the bigger challenge in nuts and bolts terms for organizations like ours, which are vertically integrated, is around understanding and taking stock of the entire dataset first. Two, protecting it and making sure that all the defenses are in place. But then three, figuring out the right purposes to use this, to use the data. So data production is great but data consumption is where a lot of the value gets captured. So for us some of the things that data governance facilitates above all is what data gets shared for what purposes and how. Those are things that an organization of our size deliver a tremendous amount of value both on the offensive and the defensive side. >> So in our research we've discovered that there are a lot of big data functions or analytic functions that fail because they started with the idea of setting up the infrastructure, creating a place to put the data. Then they never actually got to the use case or when they did get to the use case they didn't know what to do next. And what a surprise. No returns, lot of costs, boom. >> Yep. >> The companies that tend to start with the use case independently individual technologies actually have a clear path and then the challenge is to accrete knowledge, >> Yes. >> accrete experience and turn it into knowledge. So from a governance standpoint, what role do you play at KP to make sure that people stay focused in use cases, that the lessons you learn about pursuing those use cases then turn to a general business capability in KP. >> I mean, again, I think you hit it right on the head. Data governance, data quality, data management, they're all great words, right? But what do they support in terms of the outcomes? So from our standpoint, we have a tremendous amount of use cases that if we weren't careful, we would sort of be scatterbrained around. You can't solve for everything all at once. So you have to find the first set of key use cases that you were trying to solve for. For us, privacy and security is a big part of that. To be able to, there's a regulatory pressure there so in some cases if you lose a patient record, it may end up costing you $250,000 for a record. So I think it's clear and critical for us to be able to continue to support that function in an outstanding way. The second thing is agility. So for us one of the things that we're trying to do with governance and data management in general, is to increase our agility. If you think about it, a lot of companies go on these transformation journeys. Whether it's transforming HR or trying to transform their finance functions or their business in general, and that requires transforming their systems. A lot of that work, people don't realize, is supported and around data. It's about integrating your old data with the new business processes that you're putting out. And if you don't have that governance or that data management function in place to be able to support that from the beginning or have some maturity in place, a lot of those activities end up costing you a lot more, taking a lot longer, having a lower success rate. So for us delivering value by creating additional agility for a set of activities that as an organization, we have committed to, is one for of core use cases. So we're doing a transformation. We're doing some transformation around HR. That's an area where we're making a lot of investments from a data governance standpoint to be able to support that as well as inpatient care and membership management. >> Great, great lessons. Really good feedback for fellow practitioners. Bruce, I want to get your perspective. You're kind of sitting on the other side of the table. As you look at the experience at Kaiser Permanente, how does this equate with what you're seeing with some of your other customers, is this leading edge or? >> Clearly on point. In fact, we were talking about this before we came up and I'm not saying that you guys led, we led the witness here but really how do you master around the foundational aspects around the data, because at the end of the day it's always about the data. But then how do you start to drive the value out of that and go down that cognitive journey that's going to either increase value onto your insights or improve your business optimization? We've done a healthy business within IBM helping customers go through those transformation processes. I would say five years ago or even three years ago we would start big. Let's solve the data aspect of it. Let's build the foundational management processes around there so that it ensures that level of integrity and trusted data source that you need across an organization like KP because they're massive because of all the different types of business entities that they have. So those transformation initiatives, they delivered but it was more from an IT perspective so the business partners that really need to adopt and are going to get the value out of that were kind of in a waiting game until that came about. So what we're seeing now is looking at things around from a use case-driven approach. Let's start small. So whether you're looking at trying to do something within your call center and looking at how to improve automation and insights in that spec, build a proof of value point around a subset of the data, prove that value, and those things can typically go from 10 to 12 weeks, and once you've demonstrated that, now how do can you scale? But you're doing it under your core foundational aspects around the architecture, how you're going to be able to sustain and maintain and govern the data that you have out there. >> It's a really important lesson all three of you have mentioned now. That old method of let's just get all the infrastructure in place is really not a path to success. You getting hung up, spend a lot of money, people get pissed off and oh by the way, today your competitors are transforming right around you while you're >> Unless they're also putting >> tying your shoes. >> infrastructure. >> Unless they're also >> That's right. (laughter) >> tying their shoes too. >> Build it and they will come sounds great, but in the data space, it's a change management function. One of my favorite lines that I use these days is data management is a team sport. So this isn't about IT, or this isn't just about business, and can you can't call business one monolith. So it's about the various stakeholders and their needs and your ability to satisfy them to the changes you're about to implement. And I think that gets lost a lot of times. It turns into a technical conversation around just capability development versus actually solving and solutioning for that business problem set that are at hand. >> Jeff: Yeah. >> Peter: But you got to do both, right? >> You have to. >> Bruce: Absolutely, yeah. >> Can I ask you, do we have time for another couple of questions? >> Absolutely. >> So really quickly, Fawad, do you have staff? >> Fawad: I do. >> Tell us about the people on your staff, where they came from, what you're looking for. >> So one of the core components of data governance program are stewards, data stewards. So to me, there are multiple dimensions to what stewards, what skills they should have. So for stewards, I'm looking for somebody that has some sort of data background. They would come from design, they would come from architecture, they would come from development. It doesn't really matter as long as they have some understanding. >> As long as you know what a data structure is and how you do data monitoring. >> Absolutely. The second aspect is that they have to have an understanding of what influence means. Be able to influence outcomes, to be able to influence conversations and discussions way above their pay grade, so to be able to punch above your weight so to speak in the influence game. And that's a science. That's a very, very definitive science. >> Yeah, we've heard many times today that politics is an absolute crucial game you have to play. >> It is part of the game and if you're not accounting for it, it's going to hit you in the face when you least expect it. >> Right. >> And the third thing is, I look for people that have some sort of an execution background. So ability to execute. It's great to be able to know data and understand data and go out and influence people and get them to agree with you, but then you have to deliver. So you have to be able to deliver against that. So those are the dimensions I look at typically when I'm looking at talent as it relates particularly to stewardship talent. In terms of where I find it, I try to find it within the organization because if I do find it within the organization, it gives me that organizational understanding and those relationship portfolios that people bring to the table which tend to be part of that influence-building process. I can teach people data, I can teach them some execution, I can't teach them how to do influence management. That just has to-- >> You can't teach them to social network. >> Fawad: (laughing) That's exactly right. >> Are they like are the frustrated individuals that have been seen the data that they're like (screams) this is-- >> They come from a lot of different backgrounds. So I have a steward that is an attorney, is a lawyer. She comes from that background. I have a steward that used to be a data modeler. I have a steward that used to run compliance function within HR. I have a steward that comes from a strong IT background. So it's not one formula. It's a combination of skills and everybody's going to have a different set of strengths and weaknesses and as long as you can balance those out. >> So people who had an operational role, but now are more in an execution setup role. >> Fawad: Yeah, very much so. >> They probably have a common theme, though, across them that they understand the data, they understand the value of it, and they're able to build consensus to make an action. >> Fawad: That's correct. >> That's great. That's perfect close. They understand it and they can influence, and they can get to action. Pretty much sums it up, I think so. All right. >> Bruce: All right thank you. >> Well, thanks a lot, Bruce and Fawad for stopping by. Great story. Love all the commercials on the Warriors, I'm a big fan and watch KNBR. (laughter) But really a cool story and thanks for sharing it and continued success. >> Thank you for the opportunity. >> Absolutely. All right, with Peter Burris, I'm Jeff Frank. You're watching theCube from the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit Spring 2017 from Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco. We'll be right back after this short break. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco. It's theCUBE. Covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit Spring 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hey Welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick with theCUBE, along with Peter Burris from Wikibon. We are in Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco at the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit Spring 2017. Coming to the end of a busy day, running out of steam. Blah, blah, blah. I need more water. But Joe's going to take us home. We're joined by Joe Selle. He is the global operations analytic solution lead for IBM. Joe, welcome. >> Thank you, thank you very much. It's great to be here. >> So you've been in sessions all day. I'm just curious to get kind of your general impressions of the event and any surprises or kind of validations that are coming out of these sessions. >> Well, general impression is that everybody is thrilled to be here and the participants, the speakers, the audience members all know that they're at the cusp of a moment in business history of great change. And that is as we graduate from regular analytics which are descriptive and dashboarding into the world of cognitive which is taking the capabilities to a whole other level. Many levels actually advanced from the basic things. >> And you're in a really interesting position because IBM has accepted the charter of basically consuming your own champagne, drinking your own champagne, whatever expression you want to use. >> I'm so glad you said that cause most people say eating your dog food. >> Well, if we were in Germany we'd talk about beer, but you know, we'll stick with the champagne analogy. But really, trying to build, not only to build and demonstrate the values that you're trying to sell to your customers within IBM but then actually documenting it and delivering it basically, it's called the blueprint, in October. We've already been told it's coming in October. So what a great opportunity. >> Part of that is the fact that Ginni Rometty, our CEO, had her start in IBM in the consulting part of IBM, GBS, Global Business Services. She was all about consulting to clients and creating big change in other organizations. Then she went through a series of job roles and now she's CEO and she's driving two things. One is the internal transformation of IBM, which is where I am, part of my role is, I should say. Reporting to the chief data officer and the chief analytics officer and their jobs are to accelerate the transformation of big blue into the cognitive era. And Ginni also talks about showcasing what we're doing internally for the rest of the world and the rest of the economy to see because parts of this other companies can do. They can emulate our road map, the blueprint rather, sorry, that Inderpal introduced, is going to be presented in the fall. That's our own blueprint for how we've been transforming ourselves so, some part of that blueprint is going to be valid and relevant for other companies. >> So you have a dual reporting relationship, you said. The chief data officer, which is this group, but also the chief analytics officer. What's the difference between the Chief data officer, the chief data analytics officer and how does that combination drive your mission? >> Well, the difference really is the chief data officer is in charge of making some very long-term investments, including short-term investments, but let me talk about the long-term investment. Anything around an enterprise data lake would be considered a long-term investment. This is where you're creating an environment where users can go in, these would be internal to IBM or whatever client company we're talking about, where they can use some themes around self-service, get out this information, create analysis, everything's available to them. They can grab external data. They can grab internal data. They can observe Twitter feeds. They can look at weather company information. In our case we get that because we're partnered with the weather company. That's the long-term vision of the chief data officer is to create a data lake environment that serves to democratize all of this for users within a company, within IBM. The chief analytics officer has the responsibility to deliver projects that are sort of the leading projects that prove out the value of analytics. So on that side of my dual relationship, we're forming projects that can deliver a result literally in a 10 or a 12 week time period. Or a half a year. Not a year and a half but short term and we're sprinting to the finish, we're delivering something. It's quite minimally scaled. The first project is always a minimally viable product or project. It's using as few data sources as we can and still getting a notable result. >> The chief analytics officer is at the vanguard of helping the business think about use cases, going after those use cases, asking problems the right way, finding data with effectiveness as well as efficiency and leading the charge. And then the Chief data officer is helping to accrete that experience and institutionalize it in the technology, the practices, the people, et cetera. So the business builds a capability over time. >> Yes, scalable. It's sort of an issue of it can scale. Once Inderpal and the Chief data officer come to the equation, we're going to scale this thing massively. So, high volume, high speed, that's all coming from a data lake and the early wins and the medium term wins maybe will be more in the realm of the chief analytics officer. So on your first summary a second ago, you're right in that the chief analytics officer is going around, and the team that I'm working with is doing this, to each functional group of IBM. HR, Legal, Supply Chain, Finance, you name it, and we're engaging in cognitive discovery sessions with them. You know, what is your roadmap? You're doing some dashboarding now, you're doing some first generation analytics or something but, what is your roadmap for getting cognitive? So we're helping to burst the boundaries of what their roadmap is, really build it out into something that was bigger then they had been conceiving of it. Adding the cognitive projects and then, program managing this giant portfolio so that we're making some progress and milestones that we can report to various stake holders like Ginni Rometty or Jim Kavanaugh who are driving this from a senior senior executive standpoint. We need to be able to tell them, in one case, every couple of weeks, what have you gotten done. Which is a terrible cadence, by the way, it's too fast. >> So in many Respects-- >> But we have to get there every couple of weeks we've got to deliver another few nuggets. >> So in many respects, analytics becomes the capability and data becomes the asset. >> Yes, that's true. Analytics has assets as well though. >> Paul: Sure, of course. >> Because we have models and we have techniques and we bake the models into a business process to make it real so people actually use it. It doesn't just sit over there as this really nifty science experiment. >> Right but kind of where are we on the journey? It's real still early days, right? Because, you know, we hear all the time about machine learning and deep learning and AI and VR and AI and all this stuff. >> We're patchy, every organization is patchy even IBM, but I'm learning from being here, so this is end of day one, I'm learning. I'm getting a little more perspective on the fact that we at IBM are actually, 'cause we've been investing in this heavily for a number of years. I came through the ranks and supply chain. We've been investing in these capabilities for six or seven years. We were some of the early adopters within IBM. But, I would say that maybe 10% of the people at this conference are sort of in the category of I'm running fast and I'm doing things. So that's 10%. Then there's maybe another 30% that are jogging or fast walking. And then there's the rest of them, so maybe 50%, if my math is right, it's been a long day. Are kind of looking and saying, yeah, I got to get that going at some point and I have two or three initiatives but I'm really looking forward to scaling it at some point. >> Right. >> I've just painted a picture to you of the fact that the industry in general is just starting this whole journey and the big potential is still in front of us. >> And then on the Champagne. So you've got the cognitive, you've got the brute and then you've got the Watson. And you know, there's a lot of, from the outside looking in at IBM, there's a lot of messaging about Watson and a lot of messaging about cognitive. How the two mesh and do they mesh within some of the projects that you're working on? Or how should people think of the two of them? >> Well, people should know that Watson is a brand and there are many specific technologies under the Watson brand. So, and then, think of it more as capabilities instead of technologies. Things like being able to absorb unstructured information. So you've heard, if you've been to any conferences, whether they're analytics or data, any company, any industry, 80% of your data is unstructured and invisible and you're probably working with 20% of your data on an active basis. So, do you want to go the 80%-- >> With 40% shrinking. >> As a percentage. >> That's true. >> As a percentage. >> Yeah because the volumes are growing. >> Tripling in size but shrinking as a percentage. >> Right, right. So, just, you know, think about that. >> Is Watson really then kind of the packaging of cognitive, more specific application? Because we're walking for health or. >> I'll tell you, Watson is a mechanism and a tool to achieve the outcome of cognitive business. That's a good way to think of it. And Watson capabilities that I was just about to get to are things like reading, if you will. In Watson Health, he reads oncology articles and they know, once one of them has been read, it's never forgotten. And by the way, you can read 200 a week and you can create the smartest doctor that there is on oncology. So, a Watson capability is absorbing information, reading. It's in an automated fashion, improving its abilities. So these are concepts around deep learning and machine learning. So the algorithms are either self correcting or people are providing feedback to correct them. So there's two forms of learning in there. >> Right, right. >> But these are kind of capabilities all around Watson. I mean, there are so many more. Optical, character recognition. >> Right. >> Retrieve and rank. >> Right. >> So giving me a strategy and telling me there's an 85% chance, Joe, that you're best move right now, given all these factors is to do x. And then I can say, well, x wouldn't work because of this other constraint which maybe the system didn't know about. >> Jeff: Right. >> Then the system will tell me, in that case, you should consider y and it's still an 81% chance of success verses the first which was at 85. >> Jeff: Right. >> So retrieving and ranking, these are capabilities that we call Watson. >> Jeff: Okay. >> And we try to work those in to all the job roles. >> Jeff: Okay. >> So again, whether you're in HR, legal, intellectual property management, environmental compliance. You know, regulations around the globe are changing all the time. Trade compliance. And if you violate some of these rules and regs, then you're prohibited from doing business in a certain geography. >> Jeff: Right. >> It's devastating. The stakes are really high. So these are the kind of tools we want. >> So I'm just curious, from your perspective, you've got a corporate edict behind you at the highest level, and your customers, your internal customers, have that same edict to go execute quickly. So given that you're not in that kind of slow moving or walking or observing half, what are the biggest challenges that you have to overcome even given the fact that you've got the highest level most senior edict both behind you as well as your internal customers. >> Yeah, well it, guess what, it comes down to data. Often, a lot of times, it comes to data. We can put together an example of a solution that is a minimally viable solution which might have only three or four or five different pieces of data and that's pretty neat and we can deliver a good result. But if we want to scale it and really move the needle so that it's something that Ginni Rometty sees and cares about, or a shareholder, then we have to scale. Then we need a lot of data, so then we come back to Inderpal, and the chief data officer role. So the constraint is on many of the programs and projects is if you want to get beyond the initial proof of concept, >> Jeff: Right. >> You need to access and be able to manipulate the big data and then you need to train these cognitive systems. This is the other area that's taking a lot of time. And I think we're going to have some technology and innovation here, but you have to train a cognitive system. You don't program it. You do some painstaking back and forth. You take a room full of your best experts in whatever the process is and they interact with the system. They provide input, yes, no. They rank the efficacy of the recommendations coming out of the system and the system improves. But it takes months. >> That's even the starting point. >> Joe: That's a problem. >> And then you trade it over often, an extended period of time. >> Joe: A lot of it gets better over time. >> Exactly. >> As long as you use this thing, like a corpus of information is built and then you can mine the corpus. >> But a lot of people seem to believe that you roll all this data, you run a bunch of algorithms and suddenly, boom, you've got this new way of doing things. And it is a very very deep set of relationships between people who are being given recommendations as you said, weighing them, voting them, voting on them, et cetera. This is a highly interactive process. >> Yeah, it is. If you're expecting lightning fast results, you're really talking about a more deterministic kind of solution. You know, if/then. If this is, then that's the answer. But we're talking about systems that understand and they reason and they tap you on the shoulder with a recommendation and tell you that there's an 85% chance that this is what you should do. And you can talk back to the system, like my story a minute ago, and you can say, well it makes sense, but, or great, thanks very much Watson, and then go ahead and do it. Those systems that are expert systems that have expertise just woven through them, you cannot just turn those on. But, as I was saying, one of the things we talked about on some of the panels today, was there's new techniques around training. There's new techniques around working with these corpuses of information. Actually, I'm not sure what the plural of corpus. Corpi? It's not Corpi. >> Jeff: I can look that up. >> Yeah, somebody look that up. >> It's not corpi. >> So anyway, I want to give you the last word, Jeff. So you've been doing this for a while, what advice would you give to someone kind of in your role at another company who's trying to be the catalyst to get these things moving. What kind of tips and tricks would you share, you know, having gone through it and working on this for a while? >> Sure. I would, the first thing I would do is, in your first move, keep the projects tightly defined and small with a minimum of input and keep, contain your risk and your risk of failure, and make sure that if you do three projects, at least one of them is going to be a hands down winner. And then once you have a winner, tout it through your organization. A lot of folks get so enamored with the technology that they start talking more about the technology than the business impact. And what you should be touting and bragging about is not the fact that I was able to simultaneously read 5,000 procurement contracts with this tool, you should be saying, it used to take us three weeks in a conference room with a team of one dozen lawyers and now we can do that whole thing in one week with six lawyers. That's what you should talk about, not the technology piece of it. >> Great, great. Well thank you very much for sharing and I'm glad to hear the conference is going so well. Thank you. >> And it's Corpa. >> Corpa? >> The answer to the question? Corpa. >> Peter: Not corpuses. >> With Joe, Peter, and Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We'll be right back from the IBM chief data operator's strategy summit. Thanks for watching.

(pulsating music) >> Live from Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco, it's theCUBE! Covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit, Spring 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco at the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit, Spring 2017. It's a mouthful, it's a great event, and it's one of many CDO summits that IBM's putting in around the country, and soon around the world. So check it out. We're happy to be here and really talk to some of the thought leaders about getting into the nitty gritty detail of strategy and execution. So we're excited to be joined by our next guest, Rebecca Shockley. She's an Analytics Global Research Leader for the IBM Institute for Business Value. Welcome, Rebecca. I didn't know about the IBM Institute for Business Value. >> Thank you. >> Absolutely. And Priya V. She said Priya V's good, so you can see the whole name on the bottom, but Priya V. is the CTO of Cognitive/IOT/Watson Health at IBM. Welcome, Priya. >> Thank you. >> So first off, just impressions of the conference? It's been going on all day today. You've got 170 or some-odd CDO's here sharing best practices, listening to the sessions. Any surprising takeaways coming out of any of the sessions you've been at so far? >> On a daily basis I live and breathe data. That's what I help our customers to get better at it, and today is the day where we get to talk about how can we adopt something which is emerging in that space? We talk about data governance, what we need to look at in that space, and cognitive as being the fabric that we are integrating into this data governance actually. It's a great day, and I'm happy to talk to over, like you said, 170 CDO's representing different verticals. >> Excellent. And Rebecca, you do a lot of core research that feeds a lot of the statistics that we've seen on the keynote slides, this and that. And one of the interesting things we talked about off air, was really you guys are coming up with a playbook which is really to help CDO's basically execute and be successful CDO's. Can you tell us about the playbook? >> Well, the playbook was born out of a Gartner statistic that came out I guess two or three years ago that said by 2016 you'll have 90% of organizations will have a CDO and 50% of them will fail. And we didn't think that was very optimistic. >> Jeff: 90% will have them and 50% will fail? >> Yes, and so I can tell you that based on our survey of 6,000 global executives last fall, the number is at 41% in 2016. And I'm hoping that the playbook kept them from being a failure. So what we did with the playbook is basically laid out the six key questions that an organization needs to think about as they're either putting in a CDO office or revamping their CDO offices. Because Gartner wasn't completely unfounded in thinking a lot of CDO offices weren't doing well when they made that prediction. Because it is very difficult to put in place, mostly because of culture change, right? It's a very different kind of way to think. So, but we're certainly not seeing the turnover we were in the early years of CDO's or hopefully the failure rate that Gartner predicted. >> So what are the top two or three of those six that they need to be thinking about? >> So they need to think about their objectives. And one of the things that we found was that when we look at CDO's, there's three different categories that you can really put them in. A data integrator, so is the CDO primarily focused on getting the data together, getting the quality of the data, really bringing the organization up to speed. The next thing that most organizations look at is being a business optimizer. So can they use that data to optimize their internal processes or their external relationships? And then the third category is market innovator. Can they use that data to really innovate, bring in new business models, new data monetization strategies, things like that. The biggest problem we found is that CDO's that we surveyed, and we surveyed 800 CDO's, we're seeing that they're being assessed on all three of those things, and it's hard to do all three at once, largely because if you're still having to focus on getting your data in a place where you can start doing real science against it you're probably not going to be full-time market innovator either. You can't be full-time in two different places. That's not to say as a data integrator you can't bring in data scientists, do some skunk works on some of the early work, find... and we've seen organizations really, like Bank Itau down in Brazil, really in that early stages still come up with some very innovative things to do, but that's more of a one-off, right. If you're being judged on all three of those, that I think is where the failure rate comes in. >> But it sounds like those are kind of sequential, but you can't operate them sequentially cause in theory you never finish the first phase, right? >> You never finish, you're always keeping up with the data. But for some organizations, they really need to, they're still operating with very dirty, very siloed data that you really can't bring together for analytics. Now once you're able to look at that data, you can be doing the other two, optimizing and innovating, at the same time. But your primary focus has to be on getting the data straight. Once you've got a functioning data ecosystem, then the level of attention that you have to put there is going to go down, and you can start working on, focusing on innovation and optimization more as your full-time role. But no, data integrator never goes away completely. >> And cleanser. Then, that's a great strategy. Then, as you said, then the rubber's got to hit the road. And Priya, that's where you play in, the execution point. Like you say, you like to get your hands dirty with the CDO's. So what are you seeing from your point of view? In terms of actually executing, finding early wins, easy paths to success, you know, how to get those early wins basically, right? To validate what you're doing. That's right. Like you said, it's become a universal fact that data governance and things, everything around consolidating data and the value of insights we get off it, that's been established fact. Now CDO's and the rest of the organization, the CIO's and the CTO's, have this mandate to start executing on them. And how do we go about it? That's part of my job at IBM as well. As a CTO, I work with our customers to identify where are the dominant business value? Where are those things which is completely data-driven? Maybe it is cognitive forecasting, or your business requirement could be how can I maximize 40% of my service channel? Which in the end of the day could be a cognitive-enabled data-driven virtual assistant, which is automating and bringing a TCO of huge incredible value. Those are some of the key execution elements we are trying to bring. But like we said, yes, we have to bring in the data, we have to hire the right talent, and we have to have a strategy. All those great things happen. But I always start with a problem, a problem which actually anchors everything together. A problem is a business problem which demonstrates key business values, so we actually know what we are trying to solve, and work backwards in terms of what is the data element to it, what are the technologies and toolkits that we can put on top of it, and who are the right people that we can involve in parallel with the strategy that we have already established. So that's the way we've been going about. We have seen phenomenal successes, huge results, which has been transformative in nature and not just these 170 CDO's. I mean, we want to make sure every one of our customers is able to take advantage of that. >> But it's not just the CDO, it's the entire business. So the IBM Institute on Business Value looks at an enormous amount of research, or does an enormous amount of research and looks at a lot of different issues. So for example, your CDO report is phenomenal, I think you do one for the CMO, a number of different chief officers. How are other functions or other roles within business starting to acculturate to this notion of data as a driver of new behaviors? And then we can talk about, what are some of those new behaviors? The degree to which the leadership is ready to drive that? >> I think the executive suite is really starting to embrace data much more than it has in the past. Primarily because of the digitization of everything, right. Before, the amount of data that you had was somewhat limited. Often it was internal data, and the quality was suspect. As we started digitizing all the business processes and being able to bring in an enormous amount of external data, I think organizationally executives are getting much more comfortable with the ability to use that data to further their goals within the organization. >> So in general, the chief groups are starting to look at data as a way of doing things differently. >> Absolutely. >> And how is that translating into then doing things differently? >> Yeah, so I was just at the session where we talked about how organizations and business units are even coming together because of data governance and the data itself. Because they are having federated units where a certain part of business is enabled and having new insights because we are actually doing these things. And new businesses like monetizing data is something which is happening now. Data as a service. Actually having data as a platform where people can build new applications. I mean the whole new segment of people as data engineers, full stack developers, and data scientists actually. I mean, they are incubated and they end up building lots of new applications which has never been part of a typical business unit. So these are the cultural and the business changes we are starting to see in many organizations actually. Some of them are leading the way because they just did it without knowing actually that's the way they should be doing it. But that's how it influences many organizations. >> I think you were looking for kind of an example as well, so in the keynote this morning one of the gentlemen was talking about working with their CFO, their risk and compliance office, and were able to take the ability to identify a threat within their ecosystem from two days down to three milliseconds. So that's what can happen once you really start being able to utilize the data that's available to an organization much more effectively, is that kind of quantum leap change in being able to understand what's happening in the marketplace, bing able to understand what's happening with consumers or customers or clients, whichever flavor you have, and we see that throughout the organization. So it's not just the CFO, but the CMO, and being able to do much more targeted, much more focused on the consumer side or the client customer side, that's better for me, right. And the marketing teams are seeing 30, 40% increase in their ability to execute campaigns because they're more data-driven now. >> So has the bit flipped where the business units are now coming to the CDO's office and pounding on the door, saying "I need my team"? As opposed to trying to coerce that you no longer use intuition? >> So it depends upon where you are, where the company is. Because what we call that is the snowball effect. It's one of the reasons you have to have the governance in place and get things going kind of in parallel. Because what we see is that most organizations go in skeptically. They're used to running on their gut instinct. That's how they got their jobs mostly, right? They had good instincts, they made good decisions, they got promoted. And so making that transition to being a data-driven organization can be very difficult. What we find though, is that once one section, one segment, one flavor, one good campaign happens, as soon as those results start to mount up in the organization, you start to see a snowball effect. And what I was hearing particularly last year when I was talking to CDO's was that it had taken them so long to get started, but now they had so much demand coming from the business that they want to look at this, and they want to look at that, and they want to look at the other thing, because once you have results, everybody else in the organization wants those same kind of results. >> Just to add to that, data is not anymore viewed as a commodity. If you have seen valuable organizations who know what their asset is, it's not just a commodity. So the parity of... >> Peter: Or even a liability is what it used to be, right? >> Exactly. >> Peter: It's expensive to hold it and store it, and keep track of it. >> Exactly. So the parity of this is very different right now. So people are talking about, how can I take advantage of the intelligence? So business units, they don't come and pound the door rather they are trying to see what data that I can have, or what intelligence that I can have to make my business different shade, or I can value add something more. That's a type of... So I feel based on the experiences that we work with our customers, it's bringing organizations together. And for certain times, yes sometimes the smartness and the best practices come in place that how we can avoid some of the common mistakes that we do, in terms of replicating 800 times or not knowing who else is using. So some of the tools and techniques help us to master those things. It is bringing organizations and leveraging the intelligence that what you find might be useful to her, and what she finds might be useful. Or what we all don't know, that we go figure it out where we can get it. >> So what's the next step in the journey to increase the democratization of the utilization of that data? Because obviously Chief Data Officers, there aren't that many of them, their teams are relatively small. >> Well, 41% of businesses, so there's a large number of them out there. >> Yeah, but these are huge companies with a whole bunch of business units that have tremendous opportunity to optimize around things that they haven't done yet. So how do we continue to kind of move this democratization of both the access and the tools and the utilization of the insights that they're all sitting on? >> I have some bolder expectations on this, because data and the way in which data becomes an asset, not anymore a liability, actually folds up many of the layers of applications that we have. I used to come from an enterprise background in the past. We had layers of application programming which just used data as one single layer. In terms of opportunities for this, there is a lot more deserving silos and deserving layers of IT in a typical organization. When we build data-driven applications, this is all going to change. It's fascinating. This role is in the front and center of everything actually, around data-driven. And you also heard enough about cognitive computing these days, because it is the key ingredient for cognitive computing. We talked about full ease of cognitive computing. It has to start first learning, and data is the first step in terms of learning. And then it goes into process re-engineering, and then you reinvent things and you disrupt things and you bring new experiences or humanize your solution. So it's on a great trajectory. It's going tochange the way we do things. It's going to give new and unexpected things both from a consumer point and from an enterprise point as well. It'll bring effects like consumerization of enterprises and what-not. So I have bolder and broader expectations out of this fascinating data world. >> I think one of the things that made people hesitant before was an unfamiliarity with thinking about using data, say a CSR on the front line using data instead of the scripts he or she had been given, or their own experience. And I think what we're seeing now is A, everybody's personal life is much more digital than it was before, therefore everybody's somewhat more comfortable with interacting. And B, once you start to see those results and they realize that they can move from having to crunch numbers and do all the background work once we can automate that through robotic process automation or cognitive process automation, and let them focus on the more interesting, higher value parts of their job, we've seen that greatly impact the culture change. The culture change question comes whether people are thinking they're going to lose their job because of the data, or whether it's going to let them do more interesting things with their jobs. And I think hopefully we're getting past that "it's me or it" stage, into the, how can I use data to augment the work that I'm doing, and get more personal satisfaction, if not business satisfaction, out of the work that I'm doing. Hopefully getting rid of some of the mundane. >> I think there's also going to be a lot of software that's created that's going to be created in different ways and have different impacts. The reality is, we're creating data incredibly fast. We know that is has enormous value. People are not going to change that rapidly. New types of algorithms are coming on, but many of the algorithms are algorithms we've had for years, so in many respects it's how we render all of that in some of the new software that's not driven by process but driven by data. >> And the beauty of it is this software will be invisible. It will be self-healing, regeneratable software. >> Invisible to some, but very very highly visible to others. I think that's one of the big challenges that IT organizations face, and businesses face. Is how do they think through that new software? So you talked about today, or historically, you talked about your application stack, where you have stacks which would have some little view of the data, and in many respects we need to free that data up, remove it out of the application so we can do new things with it. So how is that process going to either be facilitated, or impeded by the fact that in so many organizations, data is regarded as a commodity, something that's disposable. Do we need to become more explicit in articulating or talking about what it means to think of data as an asset, as something that's valuable? What do you think? >> Yeah, so in the typical application world, when we start, if you really look at it, data comes at the very end of it. Because people start designing what is going to be their mockups, where are they going to integrate with what sources, am I talking to the bank as an API, et cetera. So the data representation comes at the very end. In the current generation of applications, the cognitive applications that we are building, first we start with the data. We understand what are we working on, and we start applying, taking advantage of machines and all these algorithms which existed like you said, many many decades ago. And we take advantage of machines to automate them to get the intelligence, and then we write applications. So you see the order has changed actually. It's a complete reversal. Yes we had typical three-tier, four-tier architecture. But the order of how we perceive and understand the problem is different. But we are very confident. We are trying to maximize 40% of your sales. We are trying to create digital connected dashboards for your CFO where the entire board can make decisions on the fly. So we know the business outcome, but we are starting with the data. So the fundamental change in how software is built, and all these modules of software which you are talking about, why I mentioned invisible, is some are generatable. The AI and cognitive is advanced in such a way that some are generatable. If it understands the data underlying, it can generate what it should do with the data. That's what we are teaching. That's what ontology and all this is about. So that's why I said it's limitless, it's pretty bold, and it's going to change the way we have done things in the past. And like she said, it's only going to complement humans, because we are always better decision-makers, but we need so much of cognitive capability to aid and supplement our decision-making. So that's going to be the way that we run our businesses. >> All right. Priya's painting a pretty picture. I like it. You know, some people see only the dark side. That's clearly the bright side. That's a terrific story, so thank you. So Priya and Rebecca, thanks for taking a few minutes. Hope you enjoy the rest of the show, surrounded by all this big brain power. And I appreciate you stopping by. >> Thanks so much. >> Thank you. >> All right. Jeff Frick and Peter Burris. You're watching theCUBE from the IBM Chief Data Officers Summit, Spring 2017. We'll be right back after this short break. Thanks for watching. (drums pound) (hands clap rhythmically) >> [Computerized Voice] You really crushed it. (quiet synthesizer music) >> My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm a long-time industry analyst. I was at IDC for a number of years and ran the company's largest and most profitable business. I focused on a lot of areas, infrastructure, software, organizations, the CIO community. Cut my teeth there.

(orchestra music) >> Man: Live from Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco, it's the Cube, covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit, Spring 2017, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Rick here at the Cube. We're in Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco at the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit Spring 2017. It's a mouthful, but it's an ongoing series you know, it's not just one show. They're doing them on the east coast, west coast, and starting to take it all over the world. Really, a community of chief data officers coming together with the likes of their own, talking about common issues, best practices. And of course, IBM's got something to offer as well. So, we're excited to have our next guest, Ken Jacquier here. He's the Information Governance Practice from IBM. Welcome. >> Thank you. >> So, what have you been hearing in the hallways outside of the sessions? What's kind of the hot buzz topic? >> Well, actually everybody's pretty much talking about what came up in the sessions, it's all about the talent. How do these Chief Data Officers get the talent that they need to meet the mandate they've been given? >> It's not just automatically just like connect the data, via some APIs and the magic happens (laughs). >> Sometimes the people part is the hardest part. The technology's important, the machine learning is great, the algorithms are amazing, but it does come down to people. And there's some new skill sets that these chief data >> officers need in their people, so that's what they're talking about. >> So when you think about the talent, what kinds of jobs are talking about? We know the CDO job. >> Ken: Yeah. >> What kind of jobs are now underneath the CDO that are going to help the CDO get their job done? >> Yeah, absolutely. You've got the classic data scientist role that we are all talking about, we're all excited about because that can monetize the data. That's what gets the board's attention. So there's a lot of focus there. But a term that came up in the last session that I was in that I really liked was the data translator. And the point there was data scientists can be schooled in certain things, understand their algorithms, understand machine learning, but this really important skill set they're looking for is the data translator. >> So the business is looking to drive outcomes. The chief marking officer may have an objective. >> The vice president of sales has an objective. Supply chain needs to optimize. Who is the data translator that can get from this deep, difficult, often dirty data and translate it into what the business is trying to accomplish? It's a really cool role. >> Yeah, we've actually heard about this role pretty frequently, this concept very frequently when you come right down to it. And a lot of it pertains to who is in a position to understand data quality, how data transformation works, so that the outcome in fact is what's expected as opposed to just a consequence data wrong. >> Exactly. Two examples of that that I've heard today in the initial keynote session, it came up, that in this renaissance of data, we're going to look for people to bring the left side of their brain together and the right side of their brain together. In the last session, of the ladies at a large international bank, the chief data officer there, she said, "for me, honestly, even though this is difficult, "it's not about IQ, it's about EQ." I've got to have the people that can collaborate. I've got to have the people that can communicate both with the business and with the IT side. I mean, we all know that story, right. Such a challenge to pull IT and business together, >> but data is really forcing individually talented people to actually do that wherever they reside in the org chart. >> If you're the embed, you're the embed person from the CEO office working with that business unit, you've got to listen, you've got to convince them that you can help them, so it is really a softer skill. You know, the Da Vinci word has come up a couple of times. And what made Da Vinci so amazing is he had the science, but he also had the art, and the two are very, very connected. >> Exactly what we were talking about, exactly. And the listening skill is incredibly important as well. I mean a lot of times, there's so much emphasis in communication on getting your perspective out there. A lot of times in these situations, you're trying to express your view. Way underestimated skill, listening, how important that is for this stuff to work. >> So, your formal title is Information Governance Practice? >> Ken: Yes. >> Now, governance means a lot of things to a lot of people, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but from my >> perspective, it means how are you going to ensure, put in place rules and mechanisms and methods to ensure that works get done around a particular set of issues. So, when we talk about talent, we talk about creativity, we also can talk about governance so that we in fact get the right set of practices put in place, so not that it >> runs by itself, but it runs at a high quality. >> So one of the things that you're doing with clients, to try to take talent and rules and turn it into an actual function that does (mumbles) business values. >> Yeah, it's a great question. So again, and if anybody's listening to this and they're talking about careers, or they're thinking about work coming up, or you're coming out of college, and you're like what would I want to do, think about this conversation we're having and the opportunity here. So, you just described I've got to drive business agility, and I've got to mitigate risk. Those sound like conflicting objectives. They can't be anymore. The talent has to come in. And what we're trying to help companies with is how do you build both a culture, but then also how do you bring in talent that can be excited, and creative, and innovative to drive that business agility, but respects the fact that if we don't take care of this data, important people can get in trouble. If we don't take care of this data, our clients can be in trouble, and our credibility can be damaged. But that has to be handled in tandem. It can't be two separate functions. In the past, a lot of times, we did have maybe an EIM organization that does the institutional, keep the data quality clean, and then there were innovation teams over here playing around building the new business model acquiring companies. In this new world, all this data's coming together, and you've got to be able to develop. So the word we like to use nowadays with our clients is the appropriate governments. With your financial data, you're still going to have that locked down. You're still going to have all those policies, all those business rules. That's got to be in place. But then, there's certain data that we can maybe not manage quite as tightly. We can create a landing zone where we brought in external data or third party data, and we can let marketing have a little more freedom with that. And we can be a little more creative and innovative and I don't think they have to be opposite perspectives. If they have the right architecture and the right processes, and the right governance, you can do both. >> Is it easy for someone who's had the lockdown governance for so long to start to open up their mind and think about ways that they can open it? Or does it have to come from an external point of view that looks at it from a different lens and isn't kind of locked down by the old paradigm? >> Yeah, that's a great question. And there were three R's that came up in the meeting today in terms of talent. It was recruit. So to your point, to some degree, we're going to have to recruit new folks with new paradigms. A lot of conversation in there about what an incredible opportunity for the millennials and the newer folks in the workforce if they don't have those paradigms. On the other hand, we have to still >> retain deep institutional knowledge of our data. So that might mean retraining existing skill sets, people that really know our databases, that really know where the most important data lives, but retrain them a little bit for this new environment. And then the third R was retain. So as we build these hybrid skill sets, people that are good on the business side, good on the IT side, we make that investment. How does an organization, how does a company retrain them? And for the HR professionals out there, for the senior VPs of HR, that's where you come in. You need to help these companies write job descriptions, build career paths, show people that they can work in these environments and still grow, both financially, professional, and career wise. Does that make sense? >> That makes a ton of sense, interesting challenge. I just interviewed a millennial speaker at the Professional Businesswoman's Conference, and he just flat out said, the new paradigm from his point of view as a 26 year old, is most people aren't staying on the job for more than six years. It's almost kind of built in life sabbatical every couple three or four years. So, the retention challenge is very difficult and for that generation, so much it's kind of the purposefulness. And if you can get the purposefulness in, big motivator behavior. >> Purposefulness, being a part of something bigger. >> So that's where this balance can come in. If I'm working to appropriately govern my financial data, but I'm also given an opportunity to work with the acquisitions team that's bringing an international flavor into my company, that can give that younger person a little bit of both, and help with that retention. >> One of the challenges though when we think about governance is to ensure as you said, that the rules were appropriate. >> Ken: Yes. >> One of the other things we've heard here and we certainly know about is data as an asset is different than other assets, in that it's not following the economic scarcity because it's so easy to copy, share, combine, recombine, everything else. >> Ken: Very good point. >> As you think about combining those two things, that appropriateness of data governance for financial data is different from the appropriateness of data governance for marketing data, when you combine them, which appropriateness wins? >> (laughing) >> That's a good question. So, ultimately-- >> Do we have an answer? Is that something we're discovering, is that one of the things that we need to better understand over time? What do you think? >> Yeah I do. And you used the keyword, understand. >> So, a very old terminology in our space is data profiling, of truly understanding your data and understanding where everything lives. That's never been more important than it is today. The right amount of tagging in your data links. So to do what you just described. The answer lies within truly understanding and inventorying what you have, and then you have at least an opportunity to strike that balance. But a lot of folks are skipping that step. So just moving data, they're replicating data, >> they're populating their data links in the Hadoop systems. You've got to have governance even that environment. >> Oh absolutely. And we're seeing that being one of the greatest challenges as people try to put together these analytic pipelines. Is to ensure that there's appropriate governance at each stage in the pipeline to ensure that the outcomes are both what they expected. They can be surprised, but at least it's relevant. And that they themselves are not breaking any laws or rules, or ethical or otherwise, associated with how the data gets used. >> I'd like your economic analogy, because I think that's what customers need to do, and that's what I try to help them with. >> Depending on what their business model is, they're going to understand some concept of a supply chain. But likely they don't understand what you just said, the concept of an information supply chain. So rather than try to explain it in geek speak, with IBM tooling, or all the things we typically do, I encourage customers to think about their perception of a supply chain. How does something move from a raw material to a sold product in their industry, whether it's finance, or whether they're building airplanes or whatever >> they're doing? And then, the customer can start to relate. Okay, my data's doing the same thing isn't it? And oh, I need to start thinking, I get that, my engineering brain and my process, and I have roles in the company. I have (mumbles) that their job is to work on my supply chain out in the factory, you're saying apply those types of approaches to a supply chain for data, what you just described. And once that light bulb starts to go off, there's an opportunity to do what you just said. >> Absolutely, in fact, we specifically talk to our clients about the notion first of, the role of data, first of all, data as an asset. In other words, something that has a consequential impact on a set of activities so you can put it into with other things in supply chain. But we also talk about the value chain. The role the data plays in the value chain. Whatever metaphor, both of those concepts are not broadly understood. Because data is so sharable, is so easily copied, too frequently, people say uh, it's really not an asset. Until they start making the wrong decision widely and repeatedly. So they have to think about it as an asset, they have to think about it as a value chain, and that's where the governance becomes so crucial. It's because if you're not putting in place good governance for your value chains, then you're not creating any value pretty quickly. >> And it's interesting if we think about it. So, data's an asset. Marketing people, software companies have been using that term for a long time. But now that we're at this stage and we have chief data officers, at the C-level folks reporting into the board that have this responsibility. So now the concept's a little better understood. So now the next step is what does that mean? What do I do with my typical assets? What do I do with my human resources assets? If I manage a fleet, what do I do with that fleet? So if something's truly an asset, what do I do? What do I do with it on the general ledger? What do I do from a staffing perspective? Where does it fit into to my overall operating model? And that's kind of what we're seeing unfold here. At an event like this, that's the level of conversation that's starting to happen. Not that it's a marketing buzzword anymore, but if it's true, organizationally, what have I done with other assets? Does that apply to my data as well if I'm using that statement? >> Alright, Ken, we're going to have to leave it there. I know you've got to run off to a session, but thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day. >> Thanks gentlemen. >> Alright, he's Ken. Peter, Jeff, you're watching the Cube at the IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit 2017. Thanks for watching. (easy listening music) (percussive music)