>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by extension for interactive. >> Hey, welcome back it when Cube live coverage here in Las Vegas are doubly. Summit twenty nineteen. I'm John Murray with Jeffrey, my coz this week. Two days of wall to wall coverage. Our next guest is Glenn Hartman. North America lied for a censure Interactive. Thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me. Great beer. So you guys are doing some great stuff around the creativity, peace, doing great customer experience. Implement taste. We have a great walk through from a lot of the folks from your organization. You're designing up ideas and products, delivering them and then operating them. Nice model. Yeah, thanks. Is that your business model that has network, What century? Interactives business model. I mean center and >> really about one thing. It's about creating, delivering and running the best experiences on the planet. We help our clients do that for their own customers. And when >> we talk about experience, a lot of people have different definitions for that, especially at the conference here. It's not necessarily an experience of a website or a mobile app or u X is people use it. It's really anyway, a brand engages with a customer. It's not just marketing. Either it could be sales or customer service loyalty. Anything anyway. A brand promise can be delivered. Teo to customers. One of things that I've noticed with you guys is that it's a talk track and thought leaders around a new creative and new creativity. And Toby honestly with software that they haven't now the cloud you're seeing in the marketplace. We saw this at Sundance two years ago. A new kind of creative is, um, organically coming into the marketplace with more channels to direct to consumer, whether it be to be or be to see you and now have new kinds of mechanisms to take product, whether it's APS or content or movies, You start to see this democratization really starting to happen. How is that changing? How you guys helped us is because now they now have new capability. They can tell their story in a different way. They have access to new kinds of channels that weren't there before. How is that changing the business, in your opinion, die in a profound way? So I mean, everybody knows that marking is inextricably linked >> to technology and data. Everybody knows that. But when >> we are thinking about the new, creative and own ways that you can tell stories and create experiences. We look at experience very differently. I mentioned before that it was all about all the different touch points in the ways people interact with the brand. But when we look at experience, we call it the Big E. And the biggie actually stands for empathy. And it's understanding how to define what a brand experience means to that customer and defining success in terms of that customer. And you know, Jeff and John, you guys air not to find by your data set or what you bought last week. You could be very different types of people in different situations and understanding ways to empathize with you in the moment and having experiences change in the moment and having creative play, a part of that and data play. A part of that is the big hot. It's a new way of looking at things, and the last part of that, too. And the big is about emotion. So when you have a big brand that has some emotional connection, you know you love this brand for an automotive or you love this hotel chain or there's some brand a connection you have. How do you have that connection flow through every touch? Point and data and technology can enable that. But it's really empathy and emotion. That's the driver. How do you get empathy and creativity to work together? Because you now have an accelerant with data you mentioned getting to know people's empathizing with them in the moment it's contextual. I could be having a great day or a bad day or driving my kids to school of whatever's going on with me. It certainly there might be some data out. How do you get the creativity and the empathy to work together in your mind? You see that appointment? That's the nice parties. More than ever, we have different data sets that can help us do that. Just give you a couple of examples. Um, instead of understanding how to market >> to someone so they'LL buy the next product on basing. That may be on their demographic, maybe basing it on their preferences. You've hear all these terms and marketing for years, and you can understand what they bought. >> Instead of understanding that, why don't we try and look and use data which you could easily do today to understand why they bought something so it could be something as simple as like a I don't know, Cpg example. Maybe have shampoo and you could say, Well, they bought these kinds of things before, So maybe they'LL buy that champion. But if they know that, you know, maybe Jeff is equal friendly are John. Maybe you're more into things that maybe you buy that shampoo because you care about animals and they know they don't test them on animals. Or maybe it's something more about experience that that particular shampoo won't make your daughter cry when you ship your her hair. And it helps that experience that that's the reason why it actually helps me. You're empathizing in the moment with something that is meaningful that you care >> about. It's not about a better deal or >> better price or some kind of feature. It's something actually about you more meaningful, much very meaningful interaction. Data set is that because there's no data before, is it more? There's more signals, potentially to get exposed to that, because that's a hard data points to get. I mean, to find the why is a holistic kind of perspective. It's true, but I mean, I think it's more of a mind set. The date is there, but the mind set has been different. Over time, people were looking to technology every buzz word in the world use big data and personalization. Aye, aye. And then now it's a I and machine learning and like, Well, that's great. And they're all wonderful enablers, as I said, but it has to be driven by empathy first. So it all starts. >> I mean, we've been saying this forever customer, centrist city and a customer >> concerts. But really, I mean, for real. If you start to use those data sets, aunt have the mindset has to be a c M. O. R. A brand manager is someone who actually it's advocating for the customer, and they're willing to say, No, I don't need big data. I don't need all the data. I need this gold nugget part so I can speak to John. >> It's interesting plate, as you say, the emotional part of the biggie. Also, I think it is the old Coke commercial, right raw one world together, and we all cry and there's some great McDonald's commercials, right when you talk about you think beyond that to the to the empathy. I can't help but think of kind of the whole purpose. Purpose driven, mission driven companies. You know, kids coming out of college want to work for mission driven, cos we heard it over and over. And the key notes, you know, we're not a product company, not even really a service company. But we're committed to two, an ideal to the mission. Beep. Be partners with us, be our customer. Let's have a relationship that goes so much deeper and longer than any particular transaction is that kind of that tied it, that that is a part of it? >> Absolutely. Now, the interesting thing of what you said is that people are >> tied to a purpose and maybe something that's meaningful in a broad sense, absolutely. And that's a wonderful place to start. And you can start to align products and services in that way, >> the way he talked about, like, shampoo and, you know, animal testing, right? Well, >> it's a good one, but the next one is really getting a little bit Mohr down to you. So I think all that is great, but really understand what you need in the moment, because what happens is it. Some of those things may change if you are shopping at a grocery store every >> Saturday for your family and you're used to doing down your attitude. There might be different then when >> you're shopping, when your kid is sick and you got pulled out of work and you got to get there to get the prescription, you're into speed and your stress in the moment they're versus. Maybe >> on Saturday you're like all try some new coupons and try some new things and go by. The little tasting >> station is actually behaviors that you want to understand in the moment. That is a big part of that as well. But the key thing to hear is, let's think of this when you deal with empathy. It's not just getting to know all those things. Even if it gets to that level, it's actually changing the way marketers think about talking to communicating and relating to customers even the language that they use. I mean, think of it >> today. I mean, >> still, people use marketers are their marketing to people. It's, uh, that's acquire customers. Let's convert wind developers over good. We don't win their helpers over. And what was the last time you guys were real excited about getting converted? Okay, it's not a fun experience, right? So if you even changed, I might send you say, Let's market with someone or let's let's help them. You actually create experiences that are useful and helpful not about conversion and not a business metric. But success is defined by the customer. How are you guys playing this? Because this is really kind of ties on multiple threads. I mean, the whole nother community angle to people belong to communities in context to their life. And they engage. And when they engage his emotional connection to a group of this and some cohorts is the worker. Thank you. Okay, groups. But they're friends and colleagues, or whatever could be you guys were. The point is, with customers, take us through a use case day in the life of empathy, deployed into how you guys do business with the big Branson and one of the success. How do you make it happen? What's the engagement look like? How does someone do this? So they just wake up one morning, say Okay, I'm gonna have more empathy. They also call you guys up. What happens? Like what? Take us through What? Certain evidence was made in the slide. I could give you >> a little bit of it. An example of how stars we've been talking a little bit more dramatically about sick kids and testing on pets and animals and things like that. Not testing the pets. Can you imagine? I'd really be >> horrible. But single graphic of the users individual personal things is hard, right? So? Well, I mean, the whole point of this is that when you really get into the mechanics of how this works, I'll give you an >> example. It's a little bit less dramatic. OK, so it's a telecommunications company. Telco company. That's selling. You guys know what? Triple play? Yeah. Okay, So you have It's >> a cable and a phone, right? All it's it's like a commodity product writers. There's no emotional thing necessarily. But in that game, if you can just optimize certain parts of the journey, you can make a big difference, right so way got a benign request from a marketer. Teo say, Listen, we do a lot of paid search. Can you help us with this one product? Just if you move it even like one percent, it would be significant to the company. But when? So okay, we'LL do that, >> and it worked out. We go in and help them do their >> search. But because we're thinking about experience in a broader sense for so well, let's let's do it more. Let's make them be able to transact or engage in multiple ways. Well, you could. You could sign up for the service to email. Or maybe there's click to call or click to chat. Or you could even walk into a branch and do it there. Maybe through the call centre, right? It's what's all that's working together on the channel, though fun words you want easy. You're leveraging >> different technologies to do it and people, >> so the way this worked was you were coming in through search and then eventually a lot of them were converting in the call center. So it was all working. And you think that's great? Well, it wasn't great to the company at all. They were very upset. The people that we're buying the media, we're really bummed because they couldn't get the attribution of the credit for the thing was in the call center. So they came over the great idea. They said, OK, take the phone number off and take the the click to call off and will force the >> customer to convert in. Our channel, of >> course, is a brilliant company with great people and rational thinking prevailed and they didn't do that. But they said, Well, what do we do? I said, Well, you're going to eat and multi attribution model to be able to help you do that, Okay, but that's not enough because you also need a new sales incentive and commission structure inside the call center because those people are getting pit on that. But since it's such a low commodity product, that's not gonna work to change. That's that's a new sales kind of thing, then you wait. They can't talk for another three seconds to that person because you'LL bring the margins on. You got to get him back. All the turtleneck just screwed up. That's right. So there's a new business process is now a new operating model whose skills to get him back into the general. So all of a sudden it's benign. Request from a marketing team taken, you optimize my paint search becomes new business transformation. Okay, now, because that brand manager had the guts to say I'm going to advocate for this customer. This customer wants to come in through this channel. They want to convert over here, and we're gonna actually change the operating model, the sales structure to call the sales lead. I had to call the CFO on the CEO, and we're gonna make this happen, Gonna change the way we do business on behalf of that customer. That is weight world, I could tell you we see this all the time and marketers all the time that there's so married to their website analytics funnel that that's all about who gets credit coded earls and the customer experience is a brutal. It's like I'm not here on other sites are all over the place. I don't really need to go the site every day, right? Somebody only go there when Otto and the thing we were talking about before. If you're grocery shopping >> and Europe's have set on Tuesday and you want to get off >> for your kid at versus the nice leisurely thing we talked about on the weekend, there's a whole nother set of outcomes in Cape Yas you have to deal with. If you went into that supermarket on Tuesday and they figured out a way to get you in and out fast and just get those two or three autumns, you need it for your kid. That's a failed trip. According to the grocery industry. You need to be in there longer they want, so you stay in the back. That's right. Totally. That breaks the whole model, but it's wonderful for you. You'LL shop there forever because of that experience, what you're getting at the Morrises air, changing the business models of cos that's the bottom line. You're at the center. That could be a driver for the transformation. That's it. Empathy. Is the driver Absolutely no. You need to have the emotional connection to all that stuff to help also internally see emos. I don't need to just be relevant and customers that need to be relevant to the enterprise. They need to be relevant to the CEO, Doc in seconds and hear the screaming and kicking and screaming right now. Glenn, that's great. But man, that's a heavy lift way could do it. How do you How do you get it? Because now I can see a cultural reaction. The antibodies will come out and attack that notion because it's scary because now, like, whoa, yeah, well, I mean, it is hard, but the good news is, is that we see, even at this conference, and a lot of our clients are coming over to do that this incremental ways to get there. But I'll make it simple. So the advantages are we said this new technology, new data that allow you to do some of this stuff right? That's great. And you can see a lot of them consolidating, right? A lot of the stacks all now have content and analytics and commerce and all that, and in this nice ways that they come together and that consolidation can help, and there's other ones that can handle different data sets, and that helps to his automation. And but the thing is that what people miss is one of the ways to accelerate this is add a human centered approach to how you actually create the experience internally. And what I mean is, it's not enough to consolidate the data and figure out that Gold nugget and not enough to do with technology have to do with humans. It's a human centered approach, so we're bringing in integrated teams of humans that are pulling all the stuff together. It's someone who understands strategy. Maybe someone understands creative when it hit me in the club, basically their prime in the pump getting it. But they will sit together. They sent to get the analytics. People sit next to the creative people. It's in next you people. They work on it as they designed the experience. You don't do a strategy project and then do a A road map and then do an R P for technology enabled Waterfall does not work, but it's beyond even waterfall versus algebra. This is actually taking humans and consolidate that thinking New skill sets at the center in like an incubator way to do pilots to do prototyping to do things. If you want to create that new experience that we're talking about in any of these cases, you gotta hand CMO some kind of thing that can bring to the team and say, Look, here's an app that would enable this or he has a pilot We could try without boiling the ocean toe, actually create an experience that would move the needle or whatever. Lame corporate analogy. Just make more money and get some decent results in Get a beachhead, just small eatery through it. Glenn. Great Insights. This is a great time. We'd love to get you back on the Cuban girl down, and it's kind of design thinking, combined with execution on the front lines with customers. Center the value proposition. Great conversation before we and just give a quick plug for the business. What's going on with a sensor Interactive? How's the business going? What are your goals? How many people are working there? What's the geography is looked like? Give us enough. Thanks for asking So essential Interactive is enjoying its third year as being listed by at H magazine, is the largest digital agency in the world on the fastest growing Wei have coverage and a truly integrated global delivery model that hits every part of the of every market. And we're so excited. Tio have this growth because it's a way to show that the market is truly interested and being experienced lead and the way we're defining experience. We're seeing more and more clients moving from some of these incremental changes to really >> try to put the customer at the center of what they're doing. And, you know, X Ensure Interactive believes in this model it is. It's very much in some ways way. Call it a new kind of provider, like an experience agency for lack of a better term. TTO help companies drive that transformation, and it's >> done with people and technology, and we're been on a tear recently. Most are growth is organic, but we also do lots and lots of acquisitions to make these capabilities come together. All the creativity and the design and the strategy and the techniques and the run of it is all in one integrated team, and that is very, very helpful when you're trying to do some of the things we've been talking about and you're you guys. I think I'm the right way. This customer wave is really, really because with digital customers air in charge, they control their data. They're now going to shift is happening. We're starting to see some visibility into it. It was going to impact the economics process and business models, so I think it's just beginning. Congratulations really is thanks. And we're so excited because some of the >> client successes it's truly transformational somethings. You got it. Carnival or Marriott or or Subway. I >> mean, it's a whole different >> kind of way of looking at experience, and it's >> really helping people. It's not just for its good for the business, but we're really changing people's lives and helping have experiences be meaningful. It's been wonderful and fun for us. Glenn, Thanks so much for sharing this insights here in the Cube. Hey, thanks for going the data Here live adobe summat. Twenty nineteen, Jumper, jefe Rick, Stay tuned for more coverage after this short break

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen. Brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Welcome back, everyone. Cube Live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit. Twenty nineteen. I'm John. For whichever Frick. My Coast. This week. Two days of wall to wall coverage. Our next guest is Janine Falcone. Is the marketing agency lead in North America for a center in Iraq? Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. Thanks for having >> me love having the conversation just talking on before we came on camera around the role of the agencies. You guys are doing a lot of big work for big brands. B to C B to B. There's a big shift going on with Cloud computing. We've seen that movie is happening right now. Amazon, as you are all going on, but that what? The marketing world. It's not just about marketing. Cloud is a lot more going on there. The impact to the marketing world and the agency relationships are impacted. That's what's going on. Give us >> the state of >> the market, >> happy to sew an extension. Interactive. You know, a lot of clients come to us and they're living in this world. I talk with my hands. Sorry, living in this world of, like chaos, as I like to call it, because there's so many things going on the technology landscape that you described. It's crazy out there. Remember, the landscape used to be this big announces big. So there's all that sort of market buzz and chaos around. I should buy this technology in that technology, and marketers and CEOs they've all been out there doing, that's that's one piece. The second piece is the customer affectation, right? All that is evolving and changes a customer's always expect. I don't really carry our retailer bank whatever. They kind of have that uber experience that they all expect regardless of product or service or anything like that. So marketers have always tried to deal with that in the way they knew how. But then the third component is business climate and what's happening in their worlds with either shrinking budgets or aging workforce. I don't even mean age necessarily as much a skill set. Aging skill sets things that used to matter. Don't they've got that they've got organizational silos, they've got all these things. So those three things, plus I'm a marketer. I still have to deliver that old brand promise that they're told to dio, It's a crazy crazy time. >> All theaters air on massive change over chips happening. Marketers and CMOS also relied on agencies for help. Tell them they have domain expertise in certain areas, A and agencies and the other thing. But now that the value equations shifting in the economics underlying economics behind it are getting some visibility around its digital different new ballgame, you got a I and Machine Learning has caused that shift. So the question is, How should your customer how are your customers dealing with agency relation? Because in today's value exchange, >> totally and that's all >> don't often come ask us that so not only they have all those silos and all those things. They could have seventeen different agencies across multiple product lines that may have been doing a great job in their own silo. But who's bringing all that together? And then it's not even and my just not spending my money right with these agencies, like What are they delivering for that? So when they come to us, tow holistically, look across all of that and help them. We start with the customer in the center of all those siloed crazy areas. You've got to start with the customer, and what do they expect and how do you deliver to them? So, yes, we're seeing this crazy world in the agency space two of brandade disease desolate all the different kinds of agency >> toss another piece of fruit in the blender makes it all. So I was talking with the sea so that the chief information security officer at some chief security officer at Microsoft reports to the board in cybersecurity, going through the same transformation that it's happening, marking where now you have technology and AP eyes and and tools technical tools. So he's shrinking his supplier base down because he doesn't want his skills gas to get widened by having to learn new tools. So there's now a new forcing function on the tech side, and now we see that kind of creeping into the adobe conversation where it's like this techno involved. Yes, we now have toes, shrink suppliers even more so how do you get from seventeen to three years at the train? So there seems to be a discussion around the impact attack your thoughts. >> Yeah, well, absolutely. That was one of the areas I talked about. So what happens? There is they'LL need marketers to understand technology which today many do. Let's be honest, right? Like, ten, fifteen years ago. They didn't. Today they do. But it also requires you both internally and externally, tohave multiple skill sets. And sometimes they'LL say, Should I be bringing this in house shivering that in house? What do I do with this technology? And there's never one answer. There's never like you should enforce this or that. And so technology has had that massive impact on Oh, I could do this myself and then they realise that can and then back to the But do I have the right skill sets internally externally to be able to do that. And it's often seventeen different still skill sets to do one thing where it used to be. A lot >> of Jeff and I talked on the cue before about you know, the classic business school conversation around core competency should be in house Horak outsource your non core competencies. How did you see that evolved? Because at some point there has to be a core concert on data and things of that nature. So what's your thoughts? How do you advise clients on Okay, if you're going to go in house and start putting a toe in the water and building it out, it's an investment. And all I think about, what's the core competency? >> I mean core competence to me or anything related specifically to your industry that people have to continue to get skilled in an expert in. And they want to do just that. One thing. Sometimes people that are broader generalists in marketing and data, they might get bored doing that. But if someone is like, I want to be really good at this and I'm going to continue to hone my skills in that one thing Data Analytics, whatever, then that may be. And you live in the right market. You don't live in kind of a part of the country where it be hard to find those skills. Be honest. I mean some parts of the country, it's easier than others, so that is one way to look at it. But anything that requires generalist knowledge across industry knowledge or or things that are constantly evolving and you want someone else to pay for the training. >> What's the CMO conversation like for you in clients these days is actually lets a lot of stuff going on. We just illustrated the game is still the same. They gotta pride that brand promise. Now they got the text taxing always new things. Hopefully, Ball will move down the field faster. But what is the CMO conversation that you have? How they stay ahead of the curve? What's their edge? >> Yeah, >> how they posturing right now? >> I mean, I think it's an amazing time to be in marketing. So CM owes to me that are the pioneering. CMO is the ones that are really focusing back is in on the customer and developed, you know, delivering those relevant experiences. They're the ones that are being ex successful because they try toe, not certainly not. Ignore all of us chaos that's surrounding, but stay focused and then they don't worry about Oh, this isn't in my silo. I have to kind of reach across, and I have to make sure I get this first. They have to be the leaders. They have to lead the industry like knowledge and business would be the leader in the organization, whether or not they are and just be the pioneer to get that done, that makes them successful. The ones that are excited about that they're the future, writes >> funny. We interviewed a guy from Clorox while ago, and you think of CPG has been data driven forever right there coming out of there coming out of Cincinnati. They all got trained Teo G. But this is a whole different level of kind of, of data, of data driven execution's been than what they've been doing for years and years and years. That's >> right, because potentially they were product centric. So they dealt with their product in CPD, and I'm going to sell toilet paper. That's I'm going to be the best market or there is. But the customer expectations surrounding that have changed, and they expect you to know them in a relevant, non creepy way. And product marketing to customer marketing is a big shift, and potentially I know a lot. I know a little about a lot of industries. CPG has been very product focused, which is difficult when you now have to be customer centric, regardless of product right that your company is trying to >> send the >> changing rule of distribution, especially in cpt. Anywhere before they would. They would ship the the toilet paper, whatever they were doing, and it goes out the door and they don't know anything else about it to the next. Word comes in correct. Now they know how the products are being used. They got a direct connection to the to the customer, and they need to establish a relationship beyond just the actual execution of the purchase of a very different >> kind of a chance. Crazy. I love it. I think it's a crazy time >> to be able to do that. And again, the blurring between marketing and commerce and sales and service. There's all sorts of debates on where marketing ends commerce sales service begins because it's all clustered together now. Then there's creativity and technology and data and analytics all converging. So to me, people that understand all of those things at a high enough level and are good collaborators and orchestrators that know how to get things done, they will be successful. >> Do you take a lot of people tried to buy their way out of the problem because you know Martek technology has been around for a long time. Arguably, you know, kind of leading edge in a lot of the the things in terms of a web experience. But this, you know, so many of them. >> You can't buy your way out of the problem. Yeah, Yeah, except that. And >> buy it quickly, right? I'm going to buy it, and I'm gonna plug the sand. I mean, I feel like that might have happened years ago, and now you're right there seeing that. Oh, my God. Now, that, too, is like its own silo. Now they have a technology silo to, in addition to potentially some organizational silos that they have to break down. So But, you know, the good news is that everybody sort of sees this now and kind of gets it. And if people are just sort of focused on to do the right thing for the customer because if you don't, someone else will. And sometimes going back to what used to work works like Now, if I call a company, I have no expectation they're going to answer the phone. And when they do, you're like, Wow, that was a great experience. I scheduled a vacation. It was It ended up being non refundable. And I'm like, I'm just going to try to call. It was one of the online. It wasn't Airbnb was one of those like services I caught. They answer the phone. If seven o'Clock on a Thursday night, >> no problem. You can count. Like this is the greatest experience I've had. I'm going to use them again because I didn't expect >> that. So it's not like what used to work doesn't work anymore, but has to work on the right. >> Pleasant surprises. Exactly. Relevancy. That's healthy. And you got it. Yeah. And then they >> said I said, Okay, well, I mean, they're like, we don't need your information, you know, I have your cell phone, so I don't >> know. And I wasn't creeped out by that. I don't >> thank God. Now I don't have to fill out a form >> I need to do mother's maiden name, like, six different times. >> And then, you know what? I saw how you guys make >> money. Like I was so fascinated by this that I just had to sort of figure out the business model because I'm a marker there. And my point is that was. I don't know how much it costs them to do that, but that was a positive experience, >> President. People call in >> there, Bryan. Nobody call it. And I don't know how they got around the company for all I know. So I gotta ask you, I gotta ask >> you with all these new changes you mentioned in one of the great example of how the world's changing KP eyes also change around what's really what's relevant. Because these new things air going on where may or may not have KP I. So how does the CMO get out in front of that? How did they evolve their skill set to either either grok that understand all this new k p I potential? Yeah, and have that front and center and working through the marketing mix. >> Yeah, you can have KP I overload to write. So remember, old school still works. Brand matters. Brandt. No one worried about measuring that stuff years ago, and part of that is still relevant. I had a session earlier today and people talked about CP eyes like customer related influence and things like that, because that matters and some things you absolutely I know This is a Dobie a mike in trouble. You maybe can't necessarily measure. But, you know, it matters to your brand, and some of that matters to know how much you spend on that, how you sort of track that and maybe track I'm all about, like, mixing gray and mixing, you know, qualitative and quantitative stuff. That's part of the trick >> on these signals. Their market, their data signals totally put on the agency front. Go back to the agency for second because with sass, APS and these new things, people answer the phone, which has blended kind of channels. Is there a new agency model emerging around cloud and sass applications that that this doesn't feel like an agency but acts like an agency? Because if you're an agency you're providing a service, you have software service models out there. Self service is there in the evolution of change over and how ages new agencies looked like. And how does the CMO know if someone's a new agency is going to be relevant or not? >> I mean, it totally depends on the kind of agents, and I would tell C Motor not necessarily worry about that. I wouldn't worry about. Do I need a new kind of agency at all? It's like, What am I getting? What are they delivering for me? I would go back to the first question and what do I need to keep as a core competency? And inside versus outside I wouldn't worry about it. Might be the technology question. Right now, I'm gonna have even the others other crazy agencies in What I would worry about is what do I know? I need toe outsource and have people help me with that are going to come up with the best ideas. And I mean, agencies still do that because to come up with a creative idea, you need that expertise that is outside of your industry. So I don't see that ever changing >> don't ask in terms of because, he said, cause brand matters. And I always like a Harley Davidson is kind of the extreme brand loyalty where people tattoo it on their bodies and there's a whole ecosystem outside of the motorcycle. That's a really, you know, passionate group of people. Should everybody strive for that kid everybody. I mean they can't get quite where every tattoo and brands on their arm. But you know where we're kind of the limits And is it, you know, kind of appropriate based on what the product is, how people think about that. Specter. >> Yeah, I might be a little biased on that. I always think brand matters. I always think that when you think of something, if you don't in your head, know what that stands for, whether or not it's a positive or negative is not really relevant. It's yes, I think it does now. Should they strive to be that? No. But they have to be differentiated, and they have to have people know what they do quickly, because if you have to figure it out like mean, people struggle with that today in terms of knowing where to go for what, So without a clear value proposition, differentiation and a brand that matches that and a brand you can live up to with every experience, it's going to be rough. You might have some early success, but it won't. I don't know that it lasts their time and strong brands kind of carry through some tough times, too, You know, if sales are down on the market changes, >> we'LL keep doing our and our interviews on events and get smart people really smart people. And all the answers come out community. Thanks >> so much for coming on, sharing these awesome insights. Final question. What's going on? The show for you? What? Some of the hallway conversations here. You're speaking. What's the top story line for you here at this show? >> It's two things. It's what's going on. The market with our clients is as we just talked about. It's what's going on in our own industry. I mean, there's craziness in our own industry, which is kind of fun. You know what players do, what and who's going to do what and you know, where's this all going? And it's fun. I mean, it's it's really, really fun and exciting to be part of this industry. >> Well, thanks for coming on, Mr. Q. Where we're extracting the signal from the noise at this event. Adobe Summit twenty nineteen Talking the smartest people bringing it to you. Bring that data to you. We right back with more coverage after this short break

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Cubes live coverage here in Las Vegas for W twenty nineteen. I'm Jeffery Jeffery, my co host. Next guy's a demon Danza whose the global president of a censure interactive operations Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> So learning a lot about the interactive piece I sent you. Interactive. What is the Centre Interactive operations? What does that do? What's the function? >> Extension Interactive Operations is the manage service arm of Accenture Interactive. And together we design, build and activate scale the best experiences on the planet for our clients. What we were finding is you know, a lot of clients were very happy with our design lead creation of experiences, but they really wanted more help to activate, operate and scale those experiences across the world. I think scale ability is now becoming the crux of many of our CMO conversations. And so it was very important for us to build out Accenture Interactive operations to scale those experiences for our clients, >> given example of what it entails. And I'm just trying to follow it through. So, like, operations, meaning like Okay, that interactive team sets up everything they hated off to you and you guys wired together is in the cloud. Isn't analytics think us through how the operations workflow is? >> Yeah, well, except your interactive very much design and build the solution for clients. And absolutely, we then come into play to make sure that way Developer, man and machine operating model. So basically, we spoke marketing engines for clients that a data powered and also we design hub and spoke models for clients across the world to give them their speed, scale and agility that they now need in their coms. So very much, you know, we architect the right or model that is needed. The client that's the marketing operating model as well as the content operating model, so that we can effectively taken experience and scale it across multiple touchpoints seamlessly with huge brand consistency across every single consumer touch. >> So they stand out very quickly then, so that their goal is okay. Get it into market quickly, stand it up, get it going >> absolutely. And rapid. Standard is really so important because there's a speed in in sort of compression of go to market, and now clients can't have weeks and months of lag time between a creation off a product and the deployment of the broader on DH. So that's why we critically have come to the party with a very man and machine and data driven model. Teo, Give them that speed. So it really is from idea mediation, proof of concept, out to market. We truncated that whole supply chain and marketing supply chain quite significantly >> so that you talked about scale and global reach. But at the same time, your warrants personalization, right? So the challenge of personalization at scale is very different than just scale for scale sake. So how are you helping clients address that part of the equation? >> Well, first and foremost with any approach to hyper personalization, the way that we actually consume and segment the data is critical. So at its centre, interactive operations will play a key role in dealing with first, second and third party data off a client to be able to devise the right cohort groups that they need to effectively target in a world of hyper personalization that's directly related to their growth ambitions. Then we will make sure that the data actually feed the content creation and customization, so that the right message conversation experiences going out to the right client at the right time in the right way. And I think that, you know, we've really hone that for a lot of clients. BMW, Disney, Malia Hotels, G S, k, Et cetera, et cetera. And it's proving unbelievably successful. >> You guys are a huge partner of Adobe and partner of the Year, pretty much every year. Great presence globally. You've got to be excited when you look at the charts on yesterday's Kino when they lay out the platform because they're setting up exactly the kinds of mechanisms around data pipeline ing, semantic translations and then really time personal. I mean, they're building everything into a platform to make a data driven, and that's the hard part of all this. I mean, what you just laid out is a hugely complex story, and to do that quickly is huge task. >> Oh, absolutely. You >> gotta like what adobes doing now with their Platform >> I am loving water job he's doing, and they're making it easier. They are almost accelerating. Where now referring to is the platform ization of marketing on DH. You know, marketing technology is now circle thirty percent off the marketing budget. That's a lot, that's I mean, that's obviously the highest it's ever been. And it's only going to go one way. So now, to be able to actually set up designed the right marketing technology, leverage it fully Onda. Also, once you've got foundational tech like Adobe Toe, also build additional vertical bespoke technology onto that really starts to get clients too competitive. And so >> that's some of the challenges markers have because we've seen the evolution of the Internet infrastructure since their Web one dot oto whatever version you call it now. But in my mind, I just see this montage of this Martek stack that logo slides that comes out every year and it's Oh my God, it's like, huge. So So So the question is, has Martek failed to live up to his expectations? All these point solutions? Or is it just natural evolution that these things are kind of consolidating into kind of pillars of of technologies with more business conversations over the top? Because that's the question that way. Here, a lot from practitioners. Just look, I don't need another platform. I don't need another tool. I got tons of tool, got tons of platform options. I just want this stuff to work. Absolutely. How do you see this? Key challenges from marketers >> I think I think it's incredibly challenging, just challenging into your reference to the Loom Escape. I mean, the Loomascape has over six thousand Martech and adtech companies in it, and we're going to see an acceleration of that consolidation in that landscape. You're absolutely right. The point solutions are going quickly accelerate to an end to end solution. So everyone is a bit of musical chairs going on at the moment. With regards to the M in a landscape on DH, it's getting more acute, actually buy them by the week. So market is a very, very challenged still, to be able to procure the right technology to be able to also make sure that they're getting maximum utilization from that technology. Some of that technology is very, very expensive, so they have bought the licenses. But actually they don't necessarily have the skills, the talent, the capabilities to drive the technology effectively. It's almost like having a Ferrari but not having a driving licence. So we're helping clients to be able to properly drive the technology and to be able to also ascertain if they have the right technology in the first place, because the landscape is moving so quickly >> or the more the wrong technology and repurpose it and re skill. I mean, it's a huge operational challenge. Absolutely. Your operation comes in and this is This comes up a lot in our conversations. I love the new capability. I just wish I knew howto implement it >> and >> then operationalize it and staff around it so that everything's in my marketing mix and in agility way, not a waterfall kind of >> completely. And that's what we do in terms of our human and machine model. We look at the ad tech Martek stacks that we're building for clients. Make sure that they're truly proprietary, bespoke doing the job that they're intended to do in terms of marketing for growth and then literally we help clients maximize everything that they can get out of that technology and making sure that really data and analytics is driving the content creation, driving the content customization cause you're now in a world of algorithmic optimization when it comes to atomic content, lots and lots of little pieces of content that I needed to fire at loading loads of different cohort groups. We could take that all on and actually make it pretty painless for a client to do that across multiple countries. >> Thank you. What about from the other side of the equation? The receiver of all this micro targeted atomic for major consumer? This's so much stuff. I was like It's like it's like driving through a snowstorm with your headlights at night. You know, it's just like, how do you get through the tent? How did you get people's attention? How are you helping people get attention in this increasingly cluttered, busy and just, you know, over sensitized, you know, kind of inbound world in which we live as consumers? And it's one thing for me to see. I think of the poor B to B marketers. Oh my goodness, what a crazy challenge they have now. >> Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great question, and I think that now it's it's less about attention. Necessarily. It's more about relevance because if you manage to achieve hyper relevance in your communication, you know, customer first communication, then by default, you are going to get the right attention and you're going to get the right result from that experience, conversation, communication, etcetera, etcetera. So really, I think being able to really excel at hyper personalization is really what we're focused on now. And data is the answer to that. And data hand in hand with artificial intelligence and machine learning really gives us an unbelievable combination on puts hyper personalization on steroids. >> I'm gonna ask you on that point, cause content becomes a key part of the marketing mix at all at levels er known and all well paid all that good stuff. But content has is about data to because being relevant is also contextually aligned with targeted distribution of that of that that those audiences. So the question is we're seeing with our video's content drives a lot of community engagement. How are customs? Think about the role of community because as the users become part of their brand engine, this is now part of a new closed loop that's developing. How do you guys see that connecting? Because if you get the content right and you get the targeting through your operations, you then will they be able to put certain content in certain channels with the right data. That means the programming has to be relevant, which is another task. But if they get that right, the community engagement goes off the charts. How do you see the community part of developing? What is the brand marketers do after that? >> I think the community aspect is critically important, and it's hand in hand with the importance of first party data and everything that I mean, we really are gravitating towards a world of first party marketing activation. The first party data that clients hold is unbelievably potent, and there in lies your your the secrets of success to creating a highly engaged community. And, yes, we are taking a leadership role now in producing long and short form content. When it comes to making sure that it's laser focus to that particular Koval group, it has to be hyper relevant on DH. Absolutely, to your point, some of the community members want to create that content themselves. So we also play a part in whether it's the finer points of influence of marketing, making sure that we're helping thes stakeholders create the right content and then helping them distributed effectively and efficiently >> and then scoring users and reputation Relevant Reputation >> comes yes, because they become I mean, key influences in B to C and beater B to B are so important is when it as it pertains to the viral ity of the communication. So they're almost like channels, you know, the influences are almost like channels in off themselves, and they can actually, you know, put the communication on steroids if they are effective at there >> for the news. I think I get what you're saying. That the new formula is a collection of niches is the new reach number. It's a rather nice blast to the reaches. It's a collection of niches that are programmable, inexpressible >> absolutely. It's almost like the collection of cohort groups together gives you that mass communication. >> I'm curious kind of the take on softer some of the softer types of communications that content around, you know, mission. And we heard you know, sati and the keynote earlier today. Talking about mission and a lot of people are are really not so much concerned, but they care. They care about what the mission of the company is in some of these kind of social and, you know, not necessarily direct attributes of the product or direct benefits of using the product, but more of a private company, not necessarily product that they sell. How do you see that evolving in kind of the marketers tool kit and kind of the rising importance of that type of of engagement with community? >> Yeah, when we told took Teo client CM o's and CDO. Specifically, we talk about purpose as well as the product differentiation. I think in today's world, you have to have both on by purpose. You don't necessarily have to have a lofty purpose because not everyone can look at a lot of CPG clients. They can't have a lofty purpose, but they can be purposeful. They could be hyper relevant in your life, and that's what we try and attain and achieve. So I think it's very, very important reading a lot of work at the moment, with clients almost stepping back and saying, Well, what business are you actually in? What is your raison Detrol? What is your purpose in life and how do we amplify that then through all forms of communication? Because then once you've got that sussed. You really do have the the critical ingredients off designing, creating the best experiences on the planet and activating them. >> Transparency becomes a big part of the user trust equation as well as a user experience and relevance. Because of your transparent, they want to see the day that this becomes a whole new dynamic. >> Transparency is critical because anyone can find out anything in two minutes, you know, on the interweb. So you know, you have to. Transparency is not trust. Transparency is not >> enough. All right, so I gotta ask you about the conflict between innovation and regulation and market. A name is because we've seen innovation always run hard and fast, and then regulation tries to catch up and kind of fit in first party date. It's super important as this new shift digital was happening where it's kind of moving from the old, you know, email blast to the old communications static channels to more dynamic, You starting to see the rise of distribution platforms like Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, among other zillion other third party AP. I driven platform. They're all having third party data. So how do you How does the customer your customer brands balance The need for first party information that they have and or are now putting their content out in these channels is a huge thing because not everyone has opened data. So how do you guys review that trend? And how early is it? What needs to be done? Is it okay? >> Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, the clients that do have very rich first party data, particularly financial clients, telco clients, etcetera. We really helped them amplify that first party data to help them activate with clients that don't necessarily have rich first parties ater like a lot of CPG clients, we help them build that first party data. And that's also sometimes where the purpose comes in on the community building comes in because when you get those two things, you know when you hone those two things, you can actually start to build a community, and then you can start to build Richard first party data so that we can help clients activate off of that third party data. We're getting a little bit more forensic with regards to whether or not that third party data is truly additive. And sometimes it's the smaller third party verticals specific to travel, etcetera, farmer, et cetera, et cetera. Where the third party data is actually most potent. So it's important. Teo. Almost look att depth more than bread when it comes to you >> and blending the data together. >> Exactly. But it has to be additive because there are some third party data sources which aren't truly additive toe activation. Therefore, we can discard them. >> Nikki. Great content. You're amazing. Insights are broad and great. Really relevant. Thank you for sharing data here on the Q. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me. It's been fun. >> Live coverage here, too, Joe be summat. Twenty nineteen. I'm Jeffery, Jeff Frick, Dave Tune from or day to coverage after this short break.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Day two of live coverage of the Cube here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit twenty nineteen. I'm John Career with Jeff Brick, Our next guest needing Stallman, managing director of a Censure Interactive. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> You can't miss your booth when you walk in. Got a nice set up there. You guys got a big prominent location to show. Tell us about Ascension Interactive. And what you guys doing the show? >> Oh, yeah. So thanks again for having us is a great a great summit. A great conference. It's one of our big kind of showcases for the year. We've got a couple of different experiences Were demo ing this year. We've got some really cool X are experiences that people are coming by the booth and putting device is on and it really interacting with and having fun with. We've got some interesting topics around Trends in content creation, headless content, train three D, etcetera. So some great topix around kind of Howard disrupting marketing and content with our clients today. >> Contest becomes so important now, Not only is it you have content development creatives. You have all kinds of applications now. Integrating was once kind of a cottage industry of creative doing cool stuff. Now that's kind of table stakes. It's a whole another level of cloud computing meets creative, so it's kind of an interesting growth curve right now, you're seeing a lot of adoption, a lot of the kind of tools from Tech in with the creative talk about that dynamic, because that's kind of the whole show here. It's all about not just marketing Cloud, and it's about creative experiences and now the new cool stuff out there and people try to figure out how to do it. I want that dynamic of creative tech coming together. >> Yeah, it's enemy from Accenture Interactive. That's really kind of where we've built our business around having that as a technology company that's really drawing a lot of specific talent to build out that creative tak kind of talent mindset. It's a different way of kind of operating and working and building those experiences, so we're kind of first and foremost and experience agency S O. We're all about building experiences for our clients, and it's a kind of ah maybe unique patch that we've we've carved out for ourselves. To say you have to consider technology is part of it and data and effectiveness and analytics. But then, actually, how do you build experiences that are really engage our customers and be really innovative? So certainly has its center at interactive. That's our That's our remit. And we're working out some really exciting work with clients in that area >> about the difference between center interactive and century proper. Because we've done a lot of enemies with center you guys, we're different talked about. The difference is that you guys have and what what's your mission? >> So it's enter. Active are first and foremost. We are an experience agencies. So again, those experiences could be everything from your typical kind of website experience. And how do you best in engage consumers at your site to commerce? Teo X are so we've got a Z mentioned it, several different applications of experiences and x r that we're demo ing here, and we're working on with our clients, um, a R V r as well as sale stools. So in the centre interactive, we take it, we take a creator first, like what is the experience. We really need to build, do the right type of research and then bring in the design, talent and the unique kind of optimization, talent and technology talent to be able to ensure that whatever we're building for a client is actually scaleable for more than just kind of that one exciting news case they've got. But how do you ensure that that's really going to be the right platform in experience? They can scale for other parts of the enterprise of the parts of the business, etcetera. We're proud of who we are >> seriously, because you guys are involved in a lot of things. You keep saying x r for extended reality, and I think it's interesting because some people think it's got to be one hundred percent immersive or not. But if you guys air pioneering, this is a lot of places to kind of extend reality. Blend the rial and the C g. I. And it kind of had this mixed combo experience. So where people using that what are some of the interesting opportunities beyond no trying on a dress from the computer with your with your avatar that you guys are working on >> right, So so definitely have our share of kind of cool consumer experiences and, you know, wanting interesting. That's things that's happening in the market is consumers. They're expecting as they start to engage with RVR, even like immersive commerce. And, um, you're online configurations for shopping and it kind of configuring your own products. They're expecting the same level of, like, hi and visualization that they're getting in the programs and media that they're consuming at home. So getting that right is that's That's a challenge for a lot of brands, and it's a challenge. And technologies, they're changing pretty rapidly to support that. So we've got an experience here were demo ing this week, which is is really on kind of that high end past, which is allowing your design your own your own bathroom experience with countertops, and it's so realistic that you can literally you feel like you could touch that. You could appreciate the textures. You can touch the experience. So it's it's really helping to kind of give customers give consumers back control, but they don't have to rely on a contractor and other types of design services. They really have many options. They can see what that looks like in their own space. I can do that from the convenience of my home, etcetera, and that's kind of one end around. And it's still consumer facing and how to brands create more amorous of shopping experience and make that pass to purchase easier, effective, faster like and, you know, close well. The other types of experiences that I think you're really, really powerful and really interesting is it's starting to use x r for training purposes. So we just want to go home. Oh, actually at Mobile World Congress for PR experience that we built to train foster care professionals on go on making incredibly complicated is around what to do with families and children and really trained them. So how do you take a very subjective experience and train people for the different scenarios to make the right judgment calls? And so that's an interesting kind of application of X r. We're also doing X are in the field of service service technician, so working on automotives and ensuring your using hand, our virtual technology to be able Tio I understand, is that the right party should be working on and what are the best practices around around, whether it's a home technician that's going out and trying to install our complex device or working at an automotive so >> so practical use cases. And then there's also the glamorous ones, like Game of Thrones. Talk about you guys. The relationship with game of thrones is a dynamic. Their share want the shows so that the Cube we Go game of thrones fan. So you guys were somewhat involved in that Such share. >> Yeah, so on. And it's very timely. Obviously, with the final season coming out of the fourteenth, and for like, super fans like myself, it's It's been an exciting year for us. So, um, Extension Interactive has done a very deliberate Siri's of acquisitions over the past ten years, and last year we acquired MCA Vision. So Maga Vision was renowned internationally for their CD I and special effects work on DH. No. One of the most exciting words they've received is an Emmy for outstanding visual effects for game of thrones. So So you got a lot of buzz at the time saying, What is extension interactive? What's what's the kind of thought process, their game of thrones, visual effects, and it really was all about this idea of, you know, again, consumers are expecting this level of visual and this level of experience in how they're interacting with you. So, Mac, a vision was a very we needed a way to be more innovative and how we're bringing the right talent and capabilities to building X. Our experiences, product configurations, etcetera and maka vision had unique capability around three visualisation CG I visual effects and really that again, that whole package of kind of art and technology to create these very high end visualization experiences. So So it's been a really exciting here for us. Um, and starting to now take that model and start to bring that Teo marketing teams that were working within the brands e commerce teams and starting to say, How do we create these type of >> bond? That >> it's It's a nice looking the MCA vision sight and and some of the you know, they have some of the cool movie stuff. But I was fascinated by the car stuff, right? They have these beautiful car shots for car commercials, and I'm curious after hearing about, you know, a be testing and you know all the things that you could do with your experience in the dental experience. Interactive are seeing that now with I got forty seven versions of that car commercial because now if I'm doing it with Mac Division, I don't have to shoot forty seven versions. I can manipulate the CG I car in a very different way because I know that you said super high gloss, super high glam. But it's programmable, so you can do stuff with it without having to call the team together and hope for a beautiful day in Carmel to go over the bridge. >> Exactly all those variables. So I mean brands right now, as they're trying to kind of create trying tio react and set up models to support hyper personalization programmatic content in it that is so challenging. It's so challenging because traditional >> means of >> going out and doing the shoot that you're talking about and doing. Even product shots and tons of photography like you have to create so many versions so expensive to be able to support all of your products. All the variations when you put global into the mix and you've got different labels and different languages etcetera. So, again, it's a It's a scale problem today. I think a lot of people think it's a technology problem, but it's actually it's actually that that's a solution. But it's definitely it's a human problem. And so in our practice, we focus on content creation models. And so this is why Macrovision acquisition so essential is we were disrupting the way continents created, whether it's for brands and their their commercial spots or it's their commerce content. Or or there social media content. By using this idea of taking a digital twin of, let's say, the Mercedes or the Mercedes car and being able to take engineering data and visualize a product digitally before it even exists before I mean literally, the prototype is not available. You know this amazing flexibility. Teo certainly configure that in many different ways, digitally. For these shoots, all you need is some some background in Madrid, etcetera, to be able to roll the car through, um, and Tamar and Magic. But you're able, Tio, you're now able Teo, represent that product, get your media created and put it into market to start generating buzz presales, et cetera. I mean, that's that's so powerful. You're getting ahead of product launch. >> How did how are the cost dynamics changing? Because before you said, it's expensive to do is shoot Yes, but now you can do multiple flavors within the computer is just radically different economics, because I'm sure when they come in and say, I want you guys to game of thrones I want that kind of production value like, yeah, that's really the expectancy. Yeah, To do it in software is a completely different kind of approach. >> I mean, I don't know how brands are not going to give it to this model because they cannot possibly they cannot. They're goingto exponential cross to be able Teo, keep pace with again, even just the variation of product, much less starting to now. Personalize that or be ableto dynamically. Render that so. The cost model today is is is exorbitant, and it's just growing. And so this because you're now able to configure things digitally and again used the right tools to be able tio represent different versions of product changed. The backgrounds, change, change, any of the factors that you need to be able to say this is a new piece of content that. I think it's better targeted at this segment. You want to test that out a little bit. I don't want to kind of double down on that and ending for all of that cost to go do this. You gives you a ton of flexibility, especially, and how you're bringing you no talent in wants to shoot it once and then and that enviable to swap. For example, I may change the bracelet on the talent to do five different ads out instead of >> risk management to a swells testing. Knowing what you're looking at, getsem visibility into what success looks like then, kind of figuring it out. One thing I want to ask you is that in the tech business, we've always been fascinated by Moore's law doubling the speed of the processors. That's Intel thing. But if you look at what you guys do with the game of thrones on the high end with CG, I see the C g I and all the cool stuff. The experiences that people have today become the expectations or the expectations become the new experiences. So you've seen an accelerated user experience. Visually, you got gaming, culture, gaming environments. I mean fortnight wasn't around two years ago. Right? Half the world pretty much plays the game or you got game of thrones. So he's now will soon become table stakes, these kinds of experience. So I got to see where you guys are going with that. How does that change how you guys operate because you gotta look at the expectations of the users consumer. That might be the new experience. How to figure out that dynamic is challenging. How do you guys do that? What's the What's the guiding philosophy around that? That trend? >> Yes. So we have, um we're maniacal about ensuring that the experience for designing is really well thought through with the right research in the right input from us. We're on the right contact. So while it may sound like a great idea and it may sound like something you need, like, how do we make sure we're doing the right thing? Right? Diligence, Tio to build the red experience and represent the product in the right way. And then we also a maniacal on the back end of testing and after optimizing that so being very realistic about is it effective is a driving is driving. Whatever the K p I is, even if it's just innovation, is it driving the KP eyes, uh, that you need and then adjusting? Because nothing could be stagnant? He's >> super exciting area. I mean, there's so much opportunity and change going on. Awesome final questions about the relationship with the job You guys are here. Adobes got a whole growth strategy in front, and that looks really strongly gotta cloud technology platform. Now they're integrating data across multiple their modules in their suites. How does that impact you guys? What's your relationship with Adobe? Yes, >> so we are. We are very big partner of Adobe. We've had a accolades throughout the years of being partner of the year. So we have a large practice dedicated Teo helping clients really look at how to implement the stack howto build content and campaign delivery models on top of that. So it's, um, both the technology and an implement implementation focus, but quite frankly, and I think what's unique is a is a process and kind of how do you operational as that focus? Like I said, you know, everyone's talking about atomic comic, the atomic content these days and certainly, I mean the adobe stack. Absolutely. Khun support that And really power personalized dynamic content for you is a brand but operational operational izing. That is a totally different story. So we're really working with the Adobe team closely on with our customers. Tio kind of build the model on top of the stack and say, How do you need to change your organization to really, really get the value out of out of these tools and really deliver the experiences that are going to be differentiated? >> We've heard that all along all week here and other events we go to is that it's not the tech problem. It's these new capabilities being operationalized older cultures as a people process problem. >> Yeah, it seems >> to be the big, big story. >> It's a it's it's. And I would say it's an ongoing challenge for the brands we work within, and they're constantly getting additional. Um, uh, market demands to be able to kind of continue changing their model. Like I said, programmatic particularly and hyper personalization is is really putting that into practice is is >> great practice Navy. Thanks for coming on. Sharing your insights here on the I do appreciate it. Thank you very much >> for having me >> live coverage here in Dopey Summit twenty nineteen in Las Vegas. To keep coverage day to continue. Stay with us for more after this short break.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by Adobe. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Cube live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe sum of twenty nineteen. I'm John for which have Frick. Where he with a cube alumni that had job for three years. And you'LL Bhambri, Vice president of Platform Engineering at Adobe. Great to see you. Thanks for coming by. >> Thank you. >> Let's talk. Engineering. That was your line on the keynote. Great Kino today, by the way, super impressed with content. I'm washing that slides you're presenting, like were to cloud company. I'm failing my Amazon reinvent here. You guys built a really cool platform. Take us through. This was your mission. That's true. So take us through your journey. So how'd we get here? How did you get this beautiful platform? >> So, you know, we've been at it for a few years, and as you know, we've seen CEOs and see emos late. That their focus is to really deliver, you know, delightful experiences to their customers. And not just once, but throughout the journey off the customer. Right? Delight your customer. Every step of the way is what you'LL hear from Adobe from our customers. And we are really helping them to do that. And obviously, in order to do that, there is on, as you well know, that data is behind everything to do with experiences as well. There is a lot ofthe interaction of data and bringing it all together to really understand that holistic view of the customer is super important. And, you know, as you've been this realist, you know, the holistic view of the customer. It's not that you just ended once, and you forget about it, right? You have to build this in real time because the interactions that customers are having with brands are to wear through mobile devices to the apse that they're using off the those brands. And the businesses have to understand that whole journey off the customers and understand what their preferences are. Write what? You know what they like, what they don't like and be able to keeping like that context really during the journey. Whether they're coming to their Web site for the first time are they are repeat, customers be able to give them the right experience at every touch point. And that's where you need all of this data, which is a lot of data. So so you know, We've been on this big data journey on me personally, even, you know, for a long time. But the scale that I've seen here I had not seen before >> our IBM conscious when you weren't IBM prior from Hadoop World, you had your eye on this big data trend. Now, at Adobe, when you have really data coming in with apple cases out in the market place to put a platform together. Hard task. But I want to ask you specific question around that. Looking at the architecture slide you have and analytics cloud and add Cloud a marketing cloud in the commerce cloud. They all have Marcus that they have to address and be highly effective as almost appear placed in alone. But now, integrating across each other now with the journey that you guys were put together is difficult. I know that from a computer science background. How does how did you guys look at that? Architecturally, what were some of the guiding principles around building that? Because you don't want to compromise the capabilities of those functional elements. So you decompose and I get that. How did you put it all together? What was the key guiding principle around. >> Yeah, so that's a really good question, because I mean, Adobe has bean delivering applications, right? Like you said, whether it's around analytics, our marketing cloud or advertising. And now we obviously just acquired the commerce cloud on DH. When you look at the common stuff around all of this, it's data, right? Data being captured, two different channels, data that needs to be curated, you know, having a common data dictionary so that, you know, things mean the same on DH, even though they're captured two different channels. So gathering this data curating this data, organizing it for that holistic view of the customer organizing it so that you can do B I, and reporting on that data is all something that we pull together in the platform there. Now it becomes that whether it is you're doing analytics on this right, which could be a B I and the putting all your doing I and Melander is to do your next best action. All your targeting these customers with personalized content. You're doing it on that single version of the truth, which is the real time customer profile that powers all of these different clouds. So that it's not like when you do reporting you have one view ofthe a customer. But when you're trying to show them personalized content, half the view is lost because the data was siloed. So we've gone past all of that. There's no data silos now, right? >> Real time customer profile is literally being updated all the time. That's the key in great, exciting part about it is a curious >> kind of philosophically. And execution is like you've been in this space for a long time, and one of the jokes I left shares, you know, we used to make decisions based on a sampling of something that happened in the past. Now you know, we can make decisions based on all of the data that's happening now, but at the same time, your challenges, that source's heir changing all the time. The speed of the input is changing all the time, and the expected return on your reaction is shortening all the time. So from from just a date, a professional and I'm sure it's super exciting and super scary to move that paradigm shift to you got to deliver the right thing right now >> and you know, one of the key things field is that as all of this data was being gathered, right, obviously this data has to be gathered with these events are occurring. So if you look at glands, their customers are global. They are transacting browsing, whether it's on where mobile devices with that land globally around the world. That means data has to be collected from these globally distributed edges. And it has to be brought in processed in real time pending that profile. And as the data keeps coming, the profile is updated right? And and you can't have stained a dying, they're right, because otherwise, you know you are action ing based on something that happened five minutes ago. You know how we've seen that you buy something and you're still getting ads off that same product that you buy even a day or two days late? >> Already bought ten anymore. Ten. >> So that's because that bland has a stale profile off you, right? But if they had the real time customer profile, then there's no way that they would be delivering our action ing based on that stale information. So just like the data was being gathered from edges even when we have to deliver the experiences right. This is where edge computing comes into the picture, right? So we are also taking. So when you look at the whole architecture of the platform, yes, it's based on the cloud and you know it's a big data stack. It's completely assassin offering. But there is also a big edge computing part of the platform, which is where all the hard data is collected. Process and action and to your point, trade, like as we build, say, predictive models on Ex Best action on the data that's on the cloud. The scoring off the models has to happen on the edges where the events are crying. So this is a complicated engineering problem. But that's why I guess we love it. >> Big smile. So the data is critical. So about how adobes changed over the past few years because you guys did clown. I heard the nuance. I heard that keynote, you know, reading through the names of the lines. Is that it? It's hard to get data right at the beginning. Yeah, get cloud right now. You got data rights. Take us through that point because this is where I think the key to success is how to make that data work. Because if you're gonna have open AP eyes and open data integrity, that data right database, it's a time Siri's aircraft dated. A lot of different applications might choose certain technology. Yes, you have to deal with that. How, how important is the texture on that? >> So So that's why that's a great question that, you know, from a platform standpoint, our goal is that we have to be able to answer the questions with the right laden see or speed as well as relevancy, right? So when we talk really time, it's about it's Leighton sees. You know, when you talk to engineers, they only talk agency. But it's not that right. It's needn't see and relevancy. So in order to depending on. Like if it's more like B I r. Reporting kind off questions or queries, you need to organize the data certainly for, you know, single lookups off customers, right? You have to organize the data differently, and that's where our I'd be comes into the picture that how do we partition and organize this data to meet the needs ofthe both operational as well as the more, you know, like analytical kind ofthe workloads. So we support both and to your point, also that, you know, then we need a sequel database where there's no sequel database are a graft database. I mean, those are choices we make, but on top, they're providing FBI's. So we're abstracting all of that from the user. And you know how where we direct question, that's all R ight, but their applications are not going to break because they're writing to the FBI's. So as technologies advance underneath, we make those choices, but again so that they're getting the right agency and relevancy. >> So in the cloud game, we used to talk about this when you when you're on the Cuban way, an IBM the devil's movement was full tilt and they use the term infrastructure is code. Uh, so you're kind of getting out. I want to get your reaction to this Is that if applications and workloads are the use, cases are gonna determine the date of structures, data architecture and Leighton see relevance equation isn't. Then there's a new kind of infrastructures code emerging. Is that data as code? So, or maybe it's this should that workloads dictate what type of data diversity and Leighton see relevance is needed Or is that come from the network again? The question is, workloads are kind of in charge, I guess. What? I'm trying to get out. So >> I Yeah, I would say that, you know, as a platform, you have to support all of these workloads, right? So which means that from an architecture standpoint, we have to make sure that whether it's analytical, kindof a question or workload like B. I reporting whether it is, you know, more like an operational kind ofthe question around, You know that you want to just do a quick question around. You know, what did this customer by or what John's action happened? The underneath data structures and databases we have to pick the right ones so that way are able to support both >> the expectations, the expected yes, the expectations of the workload. >> It is. >> You're running commerce. Leighton Seon Relevance. Low latent. She's going to be in the milliseconds or >> gut ache >> and relevance. Gus, have a high bar there, too. Analytics query for a B. I tool might be, if every second so again, this is a huge Delta in terms of capabilities, and I think that will happen on the flies hard. Yes. How do you guys do that was sauce. >> Yeah, so that's That's the, you know, underlying technology that you know the way we are bending, that is, so that you can support both of those and wait with the customers were sticking to that. They wants equal access to the data they're getting. That's equal access now, depending on the kind ofthe queries, whether they, Paula's B I and reporting are more like transactional kind of things in nature. That's the that. Those are the right technical choices that we're making behind the scenes so that the user, those on our lab print right, because they can really focus on the insights that they're getting and really making decisions based on that inside and not get caught into how to bend all of these different pieces so that they can support both of these work clothes. The other thing is that you know a lot off the time that has Bean spent an I T. Has Bean to figure out all of this so that the CEO can support the line of business like the CMO now by, you know, Adobe taking. Get off this all this. It's heavy lifting. That idea had to do. I think that, you know it will be able to meet the requirements of the line of business much faster. And there's going to be, you know, the agility that is needed to support the business. I think that's really our goal in how we support the CEOs so that they don't worry about all this technology, all the data management, how to collect all this data from globally distributed edges. I mean, that's the partnership that we are, you know, bending with the CEOs so that we help them in their journey off, really helping their line of business deliver the best experiences >> on Jewel. Great to see you having so much fun, Toby. Thank you. What's it like there? Tell us, what's it like working in a job? You got a platform? Certainly. There's a lot of hard problems to solve. So you got that on the engineering side, tell us what the cultures like they're >> doing is a fantastic company. I mean, I just love every bit every every minute that I spend here is fantastic. It's, you know, great people open culture open to new ideas on DH. You know, I guess, uh, >> all the >> creative cloud you know has got the straight of it. Eve itches in fused in people. So it's just it's it's just being a blast and and, you know, people recognize them. Barton's off how data is so critical to delivering those delightful experiences, and it's very rewarding to just see how focused everybody is in the company to really help businesses delight their customers. So it's zygo >> system is great, but the developer ecosystem What's your reaction to that of the >> I mean Adobe Io is I don't know. I feel, you know, Yeah, So that's so if you think of all the creators that work with Adobe products and build their applications, I mean, the ecosystem is very rich. So combined creatives on the data and I t I mean >> so we should call the marketing native like cloud native accomplice of developers, developers. It's coming together >> on DH because >> cats living together I mean, this is >> called wait. Call them that experience maker's late. So we are really bringing experience makers, developers, data, scientists all together >> It's a whole new level for a >> whole new level. It's thanks >> for coming on. Sharing the insights. Cube coverage live here, and it will be some in Las Vegas. I'm John for your jefe. Rick, Stay with us. We're here for two days. We're in day one of wall to wall coverage at Adobe Summit. We write back.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by Adobe. >> Hello and welcome back to the keeps. Live coverage in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit. Twenty nineteen. I'm John for Jeffrey from the Cube. Our next guest, Bradley Jenkins, was the marketing CEO and vice president. Met Life, part of the global technology and operations group. Innovative title. But thank you, >> Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. >> So we're here to do the summit. A lot of things are happening. It's really interesting because you have a convergence of two worlds and it looks like a cloud world. It's it's it's the creative cloud. It's the experience Cloud now called The whole World shares a lot of devil's mindset in there. Got a platform? The whole world's changed. Now marketing has a full blown class, not just marketing class, so it's a whole system. So as a marketing seo, what does that mean? Is now a new role emerging in organizations? Is this where we're team? >> I think it's a It's an emerging role. I think it's one of those things where in the in the market and technology space, the lines are blurring, and part of the role of people like me are the ones you could be the bridge makers between the two functions and bring in products like we see all around us here today. Cloud based Solutions How do we activate marketing tactics faster, quicker on. Then combine things like experiences with tools and technologies in different ways. I think it's a specialty skill, and it's coming out now and emerging >> well. One of the patterns is that marketing departments that have a technical and also a relationship seems to be more agile, transformed faster. This seems to be the same thing you guys are looking at right? >> Exactly. It's all about speed to market. So agility is this one co looking and combining everything from creative to the developers, all in one Teo product resource person all the wine and we get in and try to solve business problems. Fastest possible. But you're almost kind of a personification of the story we hear all the time, which is? CEOs get a seat at the table right now. They're no longer just keeping the lights on in the system's lit. But it's a fundamental way the company goes the business of fundamental way the company interact with their customers. So to actually put a marketing CEO title. That's a pretty unique thing I don't think we've ever had one on. So you come at it, no doubt about it. I'm here about customer engagement, customer experience, not keeping the light on. That's right. That's right. First, one side, like a unicorn. >> How's it been? So tell us some of the things you do. I love how you're part of a global technology and operations group. Noticed the word operations and tech together again, back to this cloud theme of Dev ops, which changed the game on the world >> it has. >> So we're seeing that same thing happening playing out in the creative market, whether it's content for here, same thing. Explain some of the things you're doing. >> It's the same thing, and it is Everything's very cloud based today, obviously. So everything from building out content, platforms and services and kind of services framework switch, which is which is key to what what we want to do but also campaign and analytics and, uh, you know, social and what the emerging capabilities are in social. How do we tie all those together but do in a way, we're capturing data and insights across all of our channels in a more creative, quicker way, then activating that across new new experiences. >> You know, Bradley, one thing I wanted to ask you, And I'm glad you came on because I've been really kind of riffing on this idea and trying to get a date in actual year kind of a before cloud after cloud demarcation line because, you know, we're in Silicon Valley. We cover a lot of startups and literally ones go big or go home is kind of the mantra. But if you were born before Amazon, you're pretty much either aren't around or got acquired. If you're born after Amazon, where clouds scale and all this stuff happened, you tend to thrive in a whole new kind of shift. So in Martek, which is heavily funded, sector on the ecosystem map of pure play applications was pretty dense. >> Is very dense. Yeah. >> Did that live up to its name? Did it shift and shape? What's your thoughts on that mark Tech landscape could? Certainly, it's relevant when you're marking CEO. You want to put technology in place. Has the platform shifted? What's that? What's going on? Tell us. >> Yeah. So you know, I think has it lived up to his name? Uh, yes, and it's created challenges that the same thing at the same time. So what is still in the Martek landscape is seventeen thousand or whatever tens of thousands of products. Now Mr Wescott fingers latest one shows every year it doubles or quadruples in there. And I think one of the biggest challenges we have now is just navigating, never getting the landscape, but then be able to pick out and say, Here are the five things and you focus on Here is how I'm going to tie them together and in great demand. And there's a lot of noise and you have to break through a lot of that to build a craft. These solutions together. So in a lot of ways, I think it's lived up, Uh, a lot of ways. I think it's create a lot of new challenges that things like markets he has you to think about. Be aware of the bread, the people that are out there. But that's just the capabilities. How do you stitch them together and you become more of a weaver? Then thin a specific domain >> class early adopter proves the model. And now reality as operational izing things becomes clear. The wheat from the chaff, as they say, kind of get figured out >> exactly friendly. I want to get your kind of thoughts on a CZ. The relationship between the company and the customer has shifted from sitting down with an agent or maybe talking to it. Agent on the phone to really Elektronik means how you've been able to kind of continue a certain type of brand experience. And I'm also just curious your feedback on the theme here where it's not really the transaction. It's the experience of which the transaction is a piece of How are you seeing that play out in the way that you guys interact with your customers? Yeah, and I think for us we're in evolving state to we have agencies and brokers that we worked through, and so it's a bit of the model in some cases, in some cases it turns, and we're about to see targeting >> B to B >> group customers as an example, and so the experience is very a bit so for us, it's experience of the customer, and how do we service some? How do we treat them. What's the purchasing servicing capabilities look like? What's our customer service look like? But also the experience of agents and brokers. And are we providing the right service and products to them to build equipped them to go help in resell product? So we look at it from a couple different angles and depends a lot on context and where we're operating in product and servicing products at Is it easy to maintain kind of the voice of the brand, if you will, through these alternate channels or, you know, how do you kind of stay true to the brand? Yet go to market through these. He's a myriad of channels. Yeah, it's no Isaac, a question that we're really working through the same kind of things now of what can we What can we help provide agents and brokers with, and that helps with our brand? Our friend promised up. Some sell better. That it's it's a work in progress, but technical challenge? Yeah, I don't >> really have >> all the answers. >> Take a minute to explain the MetLife transformation. What you guys have done. Where are you now? In the jury? Your journey will be customer. You're here at their event. Where are you on that Progress bar? How far along are you? It seems to be a theme of transforming. Continue to transform is what successful company doing. Our iterating are raising the bar. Whatever term used where you guys at, Can you take us through? >> Yeah. So a few years ago, we we refreshed our enterprise strategy. We placed a customer in digital on data at the center of our enterprise strategy. And we have pillars around different transformation aspects that we're working on everything from customer service too. Right? Products simplifying our product messaging the way we talked about product specially in insurance can be complicated. And so we're trying to get a little a little more concise and clear and package things differently. But But at the core, our strategy now is placing digital placing diddle data at the center of it. Uh and then how do we enact data and new and different ways Everything from not only knowing customers, but how do we use data to great better and smarter products or even the risk different products that we have waken me price competitive in certain market areas. >> So Data's lifeblood of your transformation. It is. What's the strategy? How you guys enabling that internally? What some of the results will take us through experiences, zealously numbers. But I'm sure it's helping. If you do it right. It's challenging, though it's not easy. >> It is. Yeah, it's challenging, and it will take a while to sort it out. So we'LL say we've solved everything. Uh, but But I think we look at a few different things. What one is knowing the customer? And so you know, we're investing heavily and try and doing things like customer profile and a customer. Three sixty. Whatever you want to call it different in different, different areas. Uh, but how do we know them? And then how do we then act? There's the data's insights into different channels. So we've had a lot of a lot of good successes in there, in particular markets on creating more engaging experiences and lifting customer retention and loyalty. So we have good, good insights there. We're planets in different areas, so things like we go to bid for new products and or new new customers around a new product area. What can we do it for our pricing models on. How do we love its data around Where is geographic or whatever it might be? Or demographics and fly it to be more price competitive? And we're starting to see a lot of fruition there and how it gets applied. Tto win New business >> One of the things that we've been talking about on the Q through got a lot of events, and the theme that comes up all the time when you have these new shifts is new. Things are emerging. New capabilities, different economic points, scales different. So all good. Now the hard part is making it work. Operationalize ing Something new is a huge challenge. It is. Did you share your view on that? And reaction to that because this is seems to be not about the tech about either skills, gaps or culture gap. There's a lot of things in the way of operational izing, something new. What's what people do to operationalize something? >> Yeah, no, it's a good question. I'm glad you brought it up because that's actually one of the things that I have a caper. A lot is a lot of times we lead with the tech and then we place it And then we say, Well, now what? And then everything you know is what it comes to a standstill. And, yeah, you have to leave with people. Process so again in for a transformation, understand exactly what it is you're trying to solve. How are you going to solve it afterwards? Do you have the skill sets and place to do it and then follow up with the tech? And then I think a lot of a lot of companies do a little bit reverse where they go in acquiring, like we're going to solve this and bring the cheque in and in your little literally left standing at the end of day of How do you have the operational ises? So something we focus on a lot is it is the people process piece of enablement training, the skills that are required. How do you turn it into a machine after you bring the tech in to really start pumping up? Whether it's a growth objective or call status, I've never where the object it might be. But you have to you have to almost produce this into ah life machine of its own that cannon live and breathe after you bring the second. >> What should more marketing CEOs as it becomes a price? I think it will be. In my opinion, I think it will be a roll because it's really critical because of the opportunity. What should they be doing? That's this New persona evolves. You're pioneering it. What is the job function? What does it do in your opinion? Has this take shape? >> Yeah, I think Number one. Learn the business. And I think you have to speak the same language. And that's one of the biggest challenges translating so different languages across different groups. In the first thing, any market so you could do is go learn the business, speak the same language, then what company you know. We're in insurance company and a risk management companies. So understanding, finance, understanding, mark objectives. Your customer detectives is key and then figure out how to start mapping the solutions in. But, yeah, I think it's it's It's a fridge, a role. We have to be able to be a navigator in away across solution options, but always in context of understand the business and how you confessed, apply, and in a specific way, >> Data wrangler of course, because you're wrangling a lot >> of data. If I don't have a lot of intersection with, you know, kind of actuarial side of the house, which is, you know, kind of always been data driven, right since the early earliest days. But I mean, are you seeing you know, kind of that side of the house? Kayla, you know, can we get we get some of these new tools? Could we get some of these kind of new ways to approach the data problem than we historically did? I think now, now? Yes. I think it has been an evolution. I think in the early days of data, it was a bit more of a scary thing. And so I feel like we're, you know, as advocates in the sea of space that we were pushing a little more than, you know, being pulled in. And I think I think lately in the last couple of years. But I know at least until we've seen a shift of demand side of requests coming in, saying we need to partner way ideas of how to accelerate and be competitive, which is great. Now it's almost become a supply demand trick. Where you just can't keep up. Because the level of segmentation on kind of classy the insurance, you know, kind of breakdown is really high, right? Sex age, you know, a couple other factors. But you know, now that the amount of data that's available, that amount of real time data, it's available on changing, they've got to be going bananas over on that side. >> You know, one of the things that we've been seeing on the side again. I want to bring a question in the marking CEO piece is on. We've had many CEOs talk about this on the Cuba and direct interviews is they've outsourced everything, and they really had no core competency, had all the big size running stuff you had global outsourcing development. And as cloud became important, they had the build applications internally, didn't have the skills, so they had to quickly reset and rebuild and in house capability. And the result of that is ongoing and seen. The ones who've done that well with cloud are doing great. They still use outsourced off. Now, on the marketing side, you saw that same thing happen where agencies run everything. The agency does this, you got the creative agency, you got a PR firm, you all these things going on and some say that marketing has been outsource a lot. And so the question is, what mix of in house skill, an agency relationships? Because now you're gonna see that application developer. No problem. But core competency becomes a super important question. Yeah, And how are you funding it And what should be in house on what should be outsourced. >> Yeah. Yeah, and we have We're going to the same evolution. We had a position than a few years ago where it was almost entirely outsourced, and we in sourced a bunch of it. And now we're right sizing what's unsourced and not in sources. So I think one is Think about, uh, what your differentiation is. And how do you want to be competitively different competitively and having create advantage and then in source those things. And then you had to find a way. That's one thing. I think every year you talk to Rick Wright size and reassess. And so for us, we insourced a lot of things around. Um, first around, build side, so platforms being cloud. But then how do you enact and activate them? So we've brought some of those inside internally on we started marrying those up with creativity. This is just the last words of the great, But we were married them up and get these, uh, you know, more agile lean teams cross blended skill sets and go on, go to market quicker with new experiences. I think over time we'LL see a start and sourcing more of the agency side, maybe shedding some of the you know, the left side as we started becoming more pattern base and whatnot. So I think it's one of those things that you evolve every year as the right size. But the key is trying to tie it back to you. How do you wantto create differentiation? What, you're competitive advantage and then make sure that you have that internal first and foremost. And don't outsource here, your smarts to >> another. I think the key point is by re factoring or Ria's re sizing. That's the interest generation that you get with cloud and scale. If you don't do that, scale can also hurt. You >> can yeah, yeah, >> comes come back and impression. It's right, really. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate the insights from great to hear from Practitioner Love the new child. I think it's a game changer. I think it's going to be a standard final question to end the segment learnings over the over the past couple of years. What some key learnings that you take away from the process that you're going to carry forward. >> Yeah, I think one one is as a company being being a blend roll between marketing the technology. One is, uh, be willing to change and adapt and be willing to bring the rest of the company with you could You can't do everything yourself. So I think you have to be a change agent for the company. I figure out that that everybody is in the journey with you and then how do you create that scale to get the get the mass moving? Because it takes it takes a village thing. Get things done. >> Bradley. Jake is making history on the Cuba's, the first marketing CIA we've interviewed super excited, great insights. This is going to be a position we think's going around for a while, of course. The Cube coverage here on Adobe Summit. Jeffery, Jeffery Thanks for watching Stay with us from or Day one of two day coverage here in Las Vegas. After this short break