>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. Hey, welcome back. You're ready, Jeff Freak here with the Cube coming to you from our Palo Alto studios with ongoing coverage of Cisco Definite create. We've been going to definite create, I think, since the very beginning. This year, of course. Like everything else, it's it's virtual. So we're excited to cover it virtually and digitally like we have a lot of other shows here in 2020 and we're excited to have our next guest. We've got Kun Jacobs. He's the director of systems engineering. Francisco, Good to see you. Coun. Thank >>you for having me. >>And joining him is Eric Nippy is the VP of system systems Engineering. Francisco. Good to see Eric. >>Good to be here. Thank you. >>Pleasure. So before we jump into kind of what's going on now, in this new great world of program ability and control, I want to kind of go back to the future for a minute. Because when I was doing some research for this interview, it was kun. I saw an old presentation that you were giving from 2006 about the changing evolution of the changing evolution of networking and moving from. I think the theme was a human centered, human centered network, and you were just starting to touch a little bit on video and online video. Oh my goodness, how far we have come. But but I would love to get kind of historical perspective because we've been talking a lot. And I know Eric Son plays football about the football analogy of the network is kind of like an offensive lineman where if they're doing a good job, you don't hear much about them. But they're really important to everything, and the only time you hear about him was when the flag is thrown. So if you look back with the historical perspective load and the numbers and the evolution of the network as we've moved to this modern time and you know thank goodness, because if Cove it hit five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know all of us in the information space would not have been able to make this transition, so I just I just love to get some historical perspective because you've been kind of charting this and mapping this for a very long time. >>Yeah, we absolutely have. I think you know what you're referring to was back in the day the human network campaign and to your point that the load, the number of hosts, the traffic just overall, the intelligence of the network has just evolved tremendously over the last decade and a half, 15 years or so. And you look at where we are now in terms of the programmable nature of the network and what that enables in terms of new degrees of relevance that we can create for the customers on how you know the role of I t. Has changed entirely again, especially during this pandemic. You know, the fact that it's now as a service and elastic eyes is absolutely fundamental to being able to ensure, on an ongoing basis a great customer experience. And so it's been It's been a very interesting right, indeed. Yeah, >>And then and then just to close the loop, the one of your more later interviews talking to Sylvia. You're the question is, are you developer an engineer? So And your whole advice to all these network engineers is just Just don't jump in and start doing some coding and learning. So you know, the focus and really the emphasis and where the opportunity to differentiate is a complete is completely 15 years over to the, you know, really software to find side. >>Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, you look at how the software world and the network has come together and how we're applying now, you know, basically the same construct of C I C D pipeline to network infrastructure. Look at network really as code and get all of the benefits from that in the familiarity of it, the way that our engineers have had to evolve in that is just, you know, quite quite significant in like the skill set. And the best thing is jump in, you know, dip your toe in the water, but continue to evolve that skill set. And, you know, don't don't be shy. It's It's a leap of faith for some of us who've been in the industry a bit longer. You know, we like to look at ourselves as the craftsman of the network, but now it's definitely software Centris City and the, um, program ability. >>Right? So, Eric, you've got some digital exhaust out there, too, that I was able to dig up Going back to 2000 and 2 752 page book in the very back corner of a dark, dirty, dusty Amazon warehouse is managing Cisco Network Security 752 pages. Wow. How has security changed? From a time where before I could just read a book, a big book, you know, throw some protocols in and probably block a bunch of ports to the world that we live in today, where everything is connected, everything is a p. I driven. Everything is software defined. You've got pieces of workload spread out all over the place. And, Oh, by the way, you need to bake security in at every single level of the application stack. >>Yeah, No eso Wow. Kudos that you you found that book. I'm really impressed there, so thank you. Little street credit. So I want to get on something that you you talked about because I think it's very important to to this overall conversation if we think about the scale of the network and coun hit on it briefly. You talked about it as well. We're seeing a massive explosion of devices by the you know it's estimated By the end of this year, there's gonna be about 27 billion devices on the global Internet. That's about 3.7 devices for every man, woman and child life. And if we extrapolate that out over the course of the next decade on the growth trajectory, we're on. And if you look at some of the published research on this, it's estimated there could be upwards of 500 billion devices accessing the global Internet on a on a daily basis in the primarily that that that is I o T devices. That's digitally connected devices. Anything that can be connected will be connect, but then introduces a really interesting security challenge because every one of those devices that is accessing the global Internet is within a company's infrastructure. Accessing pieces of corporate data is a potential attack factor, so we really need Thio and I think the right expression for this is we need to reimagine security because security is, as you said, not about perimeters. You know, I wrote that book back in 2002. I was talking about firewalls and a cutting edge technology was intrusion, prevention and intrusion detection. Now we need to look at security. Really? In the in the guise of under the under the under the realm of really two aspects the identity. Who is accessing the data in the context, What data is being access and that is going to require a level of intelligence, a level of automation and technologies like machine learning, an automated intelligence. They're going to be our artificial intelligence. Rather are gonna be table stakes because the sheer scale of what we're trying to secure is going to be untenable under current. You know, just current security practices mean the network is gonna have to be incredibly intelligent and leverage again, a lot of that AI type of data to match patterns of potential attacks and ideally, shut them down before they ever cause any type of damage. >>Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, one thing That cove it has done a bunk many things is kind of re taught us all about the power of exponential curves and how extremely large those things are and how fast they grow. We had Dave Rennes in on it Google Cloud a couple years ago, and I remember him talking about early days of Google when they were starting to map out kind of, as you describe kind of map out their growth curves, and they just figured out they could not hire if they hired everybody, they couldn't hire enough people to deal with it, right? So really kind of rethinking automation and re thinking about the way that you manage these things and and the level right, the old Is it a pet or is it or is it, um, part of the herd? And I think it's interesting what you talked about coun really human powered Internet and being driven by a lot of this video. But to what you just said, Erik, the next big wave right is I, O. T and five G. And I think you know, you talk about 3.7 of devices per person. That's nothing compared toa right, all these sensors and all these devices and all these factories because five G is really targeted to machine to machines, which there's ah lot of them, and they trade a lot of information really, really quickly. So, you know, I want to go back to Yukun thinking about this next great wave in a five G i o t kind of driven world where it's kind of like one voice kind of fell off compared to I p traffic on the network, I think you're going to see the same thing. Kind of human generated data relative to machine generated data is also gonna fall off dramatically. Is the machine generated data just skyrockets through the roof? >>Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think thio also what Eric touched on the visibility on that and they'll be able to process that data at the edge that's going to catalyze cloud adoption even further. And it's gonna, you know, make the role of the network the connectivity of it all, and the security within that crucially important. And then you look at the role of program ability. Within that, we're see the evolution going so fast. You look at the element of the software defined network in an I. O. T. Speed space. We see that we have hosts there that are not necessarily, you know, behaving like other hosts would on a network, for example, manufacturing floor production, robot or security camera. And what we're seeing is we're seeing you know, partners and customers employing program ability to make sure that we overcome some of the shortcomings, uh, in terms of where the network is at. But then how do you customize it in terms of the relevance that it can provide, bringing on board those those hosts in a very transparent way on then, you know, keep keep the agility of it and keep the speed of innovation going right, >>right. So, Eric, I want to come back to you and shift gears kind of back to the people will leave the A. D and the machines along along for middle minute. But I'm curious about what does beat the boss. I mean, I I go to your LinkedIn profile and it's just filled with congratulatory statements, but everyone's talking about beating the boss. You know, it's it's a really, you know, kind of interesting and different way toe to motivate people to build this new skill set in terms of getting software certifications within the Cisco world. And I just thought it was really cute the way that you clearly got people motivated because there's posts all over the place and they've all got their their nice big badge of their certification. But, you know, at a higher level, it is a different motivation to be a developer versus and engineering a technician. And it's a, you know, kind of a different point of view. And I just wonder if you could share, you know, some of the ways that you're kind of encouraging, you know, kind of this transformation within your own workforce as well as the partners, etcetera and really adopting kind of almost a software first in this program kind of point of view versus, you know, I'm just wiring stuff up. >>Apparently, a lot of people like to beat me. So I mean, that in of itself was was a was a great success. But, you know, if we think we take a step back, you know, what is Cisco about as an organization? I mean, obviously, he looked back to the very early days of our vision, right? It was. It was to change the way the world, you know, worked, played, live and learn. And if you think about and you hit on this when we were you know, your discussion with with With Kun in the early days of Cove it. We really saw that play out as so much shifted from, you know, in person type of interactions to virtual interactions in the network that that our customers, our partners, our employees built over the course of the last several last three decades really help the world continue Thio to to do business for students to continue to go thio school or, you know, clinicians to connect with patients. If I think about that mission to meet program ability is just the next generation of that mission, uh, continuing to enable the world to communicate, continuing to enable customers, employees, partners to, uh, essentially leverage the network for more than just connectivity. Now the leverage it for critical insight again, If we look at some of the some of the use cases that we're seeing for social distancing and contact tracing, the network has a really important place to play there because we can pull insight from the but it isn't necessarily and out of the box type of integration. So I look at program ability and and what we're doing with debt net to give relevance to the network for those types of really critical conversations that every organization is having right now. It's a way to extrapolate its away thio full critical data so that I can make a decision and I if that decisions automated or if that decision requires some type of a manual intervention, regardless, we're still about connecting, or in this case, we're connecting insight with the people who need it most. The definite pounds we ran is really in respect for how critical this new skills that's going to be. It's not enough. Like I said, just to connect the world anymore. We need to leverage that network, the network for that critical insight. And when we dropped were created to beat the boss challenge, it was really simple. Hey, guys, I think this is important and I am going to go out, and I'm gonna achieve the certification myself because I want to continue to be very relevant. I'm gonna continue to be able to provide that insight for my customers and partners. So therefore I'm going for it. Anybody can get there before me. Maybe there's a little incentive tied to and the incentive, although it's funny, we interviewed a lot of ah, a lot of our team who achieved it Incentive with secondary. They just wanted have bragging rights like, Yeah, I beat Eric, Right, Right. >>Absolutely. No, that Z you know, put your money where your mouth is, right? If it's important than what you know, you should do it too. And you know, the whole not asking people to do what you wouldn't do yourself. So I think there's a lot of good leadership, uh, leadership lessons there as well. But I wanna extend kind of the conversation on the Koven impact. Right? Because I'm sure you've seen all the social media means you know who's driving your digital transformation, the CEO of the CMO or cove it. And we all know the answer to the question. But you know, you guys have already been dealing with kind of increased complexity around enterprise infrastructure, world in terms of cloud and public cloud and hybrid cloud and multi cloud, and people are trying to move stuff all the way around. Now suddenly had this co vid moment right in March, which is really a light switch moment. People didn't have time to plan or prepare for suddenly everybody working from home and it's not only you but your spouse and your kids and everybody else. So but now we're six months plus into this thing, and I would just love to get your perspective, you know, and kind of the change from Oh, my goodness, we have to react to the light switch moment. What do we do to make sure people can can get get what they need when they need it from where they are? But but then really moving from this is an emergency situation. Stopgap situation toe. This is going to extend for some period of time. And even when it's the acute crisis is over, you know this is going to drive. Ah, riel change in the way that people communicate in the way that people where they sit and do their job and kind of how customers are responding accordingly as the you know, kind of the narrative has changed from an emergency stop gap to this is the new normal that we really need thio to plan for. >>So I think I think you said it very well. I think anything that could be digitized any any interaction that could be driven virtually waas. And what's interesting is we, as you said. We went from that light switch moment where, and I believe the status this and I'll probably get the number wrong. But like in the United States here at the beginning, at the end of February, about 2% of the knowledge worker population was virtual, you know, working from home or in a remote work environment. And over the course of about 11 days, that number went from 2% to 70% in interesting that it worked. You know, there was a lot of hiccups along the way, and there was a lot of organizations making really quick decisions on How do I enable VPN scale of mass? How doe I, you know, leverage. You know, things like WebEx for virtual meetings in virtual connectivity much faster now that as you said that we've kind of gotten out of the fog of war or frog fog of battle organizations, we're looking at what they accomplished. And it was nothing short of Herculean and looking at this now from a transition. Thio Oh my gosh, we need to change, too. We have an opportunity to change and we're looking. We see a lot of organizations specifically around financial services, health care through the K through 20 educational environment, all looking at how can they doom or virtually for a couple of reasons? Obviously, there is a significant safety factor, and again, we're still in that we're still in the height of this pandemic. They want to make sure their employees, their customers, students patients remain safe. But second, we've found in discussions with a lot of senior I T executives and our customers that people are happier working from home. People are more productive working from home. And that again, the network that's been built over the course of the last few decades has been resilient enough to allow that to happen. And then, third, there is a potential cost savings here outside of people. The next most expensive resource that organizations are paying for is real estate. If they can shrink that real estate footprint while providing a better user experience at the locations that they're maintaining again leveraging things like location services, leveraging things like, uh, unified collaboration that's very personalized to the end users experience, they're going to do that and again they're going to save money. They're gonna have happier employees, and ultimately they're gonna make their their employees in their customers a lot safer. So we see, we believe that there is in some parts of the economy, a shift that is going to be more permanent. And some estimates put it as high as 15% of the current workforce is going to stay today in a virtual or a semi virtual working environment for the foreseeable future. >>Interesting. And I would say I'd say 15% is low, especially if you if you qualify it with, you know, part time, right? There was a great interview were doing and, you know, talk about working from home. He used to work from home as the exception, right? Because the cable person was coming or you get a new washing machine or something, where now that's probably get, you know, in many cases will shift to the other where I'm generally gonna work from home unless you know somebody's in town or have an important meeting or there's some special collaboration. Uh, that drives me to be in. But, you know, I wanna go back to Yukun and and really doubled down on. You know, I think most people spend too much time focusing, especially. We'll just say within the virtual events base where we play on the things you can't do virtually. We can't meet in the hall. We can't grab a quick coffee to drink instead of focusing on the positive things like we're accomplishing right here. You're in Belgium, right? Eric is in Ohio, were in California. Um, and you know, we didn't take three days to travel and and check into a hotel and and all that stuff to get together for this period of time. So there's a lot of stuff that digital enables. And I think, you know, people need to focus more on that versus continuing to focus on the two or three things that that it doesn't replace, and it doesn't replace those. So let's just get that off the table and move on with our lives because those are coming back anytime soon. >>No, totally. I think it's the balance of those things. It's guarding the fact that you're not necessarily working for home. I think the trick there is you could be sleeping at the office, but I think the positives airway way more out spoken. I you know, I look at myself I got much more exercise time in these last couple of months than I usually do because you don't travel. You don't have the jet lag and the connection. And then you talked about those face to face moments. I think a lot of people are, in a way, wanting to go back to the office part time, as Eric also explained. But a lot of it you could do virtually. We have virtual coffees with team or, you know, even here in Belgium are are local. General manager has, ah, virtual aperitif. Every Friday obviously skipped the one this week. But you know, there's there's ways to be very creative with the technology and the quality of the technology that the network enables, Um, you know, to to get the basketball world right, >>So I just we're gonna wrap the segment. I wanna give you guys both the last word. You both Francisco for a while and you know, Susie, we and the team on Definite has really grown this thing. I think we were there at the very beginning couple of 456 years ago. I can't keep track of time anymore, but you know, it's really really grown. And, you know, the timing is terrific to get into this more software defined world, which is where we are. I wonder if you could just, you know, kind of share a couple of thoughts is, you know, with a little bit of perspective. And you know what you're excited about today and kind of what you see coming down the road. Since you guys have been there for a while, you've been in the space. Uh, let's start with Yukun. >>Okay? I think the possibility it creates, I think, really program ability, software defined is really about the art of the possible. It's what you can dream up and then go code Eric talked about the relevance of it and how it maximizes that relevance. And a customer base is, um, you know, and then it is the evolution off the teams in terms of the creativity that they can bring to it. We're seeing really people dive into that in customers, um, co creating with us on. I think that's where we're going in terms of like the evolution off the value proposition there in terms of what technology can provide, but also how it impacts people as we discussed and and redefines process. >>I love that the art of the possible, which is a lot harder to execute in, uh, hardware than software certainly takes a lot longer. >>America, I >>love to get your thoughts. >>Absolutely. So I started my career in Cisco turning, putting I P phones onto the network. And back then, you know, it was, you know, 1 4002 when three idea of putting telephones onto the network was such a of just such an objectionable idea. And so many purists were telling us all the reasons it wouldn't work. Now, if we go forward again 19 years, the idea of not having them plugging into the network is a ridiculous idea. So we have a We're looking at an inflection point in this industry, and it's really it's not about programming is not necessarily about programming. It's about doing it smarter. It's about being more efficient. It's about driving automation. But again, it's about unlocking the value of what the network is. We've moved so far past what you know, just connectivity. The network touches everything and is more workload. Moves to the cloud is more workload moves to things like containers. The network is the really the only common element that ties all of these things together. The network needs to take its rightful place, uh, in the in the i t. Lexicon as being that critical for that critical insight provider for for how users are interacting with the network. How users air interacting with applications, how applications are interacting with one another. Program ability is a way to do that more efficiently with greater, greater degree of certainty, with much greater relevance into the overall delivery of I t services and digitization. So to me, I think we're gonna look back 20 years from now, probably even 10 and say, Man, we used to configure things manually. What was that like? I think I think really, this is This is the future, and I think we want to be aligned with where we're going versus where we've been. >>Well, coun Eric. Thank you for sharing your perspective. You know, it's it's really nice to have, you know, some historical reference on. It's also nice to be living in a new age where you can you can, you know, stay at the same company and and still refresh. You know, new challenges, new opportunities and grow this thing because a zoo said I remember those i p first i p phone days and I thought, Well, Ma Bell must be happy because the old Mother's Day problem is finally solved when we don't have to have a >>dedicated connection >>between every mother and every child in the middle of May. So good news. So thank you very much for sharing your, uh, your insights and really, really enjoyed the conversation. >>Thank you. >>Yeah. All >>right. He's kun. He was Eric. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube for continuing coverage of Cisco Definite Connect. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting accelerating automation with definite brought to you by Cisco. >>Hey, welcome back. You're ready, Jeff Freak here with the Cube coming to you from our Palo Alto studios with ongoing coverage of Cisco Definite create. We've been going to definite create, I think, since the very beginning. This year, of course. Like everything else, it's it's virtual. So we're excited to cover it virtually and digitally like we have a lot of other shows here in 2020 and we're excited to have our next guest. We've got Kun Jacobs. He's the director of systems engineering. Francisco, Good to see you. Coun. >>Thank you for having me. >>And joining him is Eric Nappy is the VP of systems systems Engineering. Francisco. Good to see Eric. >>Good to be here. Thank you. >>Pleasure. So before we jump into kind of what's going on now, in this new great world of program ability and control, I want to kind of go back to the future for a minute. Because when I was doing some research for this interview, it was kun. I saw an old presentation that you were giving from 2006 about the changing evolution of the changing evolution of networking and moving from. I think the theme was a human centered, human centered network, and you were just starting to touch a little bit on video and online video. Oh my goodness, how far we have come. But but I would love to get kind of historical perspective because we've been talking a lot. And I know Eric Son plays football about the football analogy of the network is kind of like an offensive lineman where if they're doing a good job, you don't hear much about them. But they're really important to everything, and the only time you hear about him was when the flag is thrown. So if you look back with the historical perspective load and the numbers and the evolution of the network as we've moved to this modern time and you know thank goodness, because if Cove it hit five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know all of us in the information space would not have been able to make this transition, so I just I just love to get some historical perspective because you've been kind of charting this and mapping this for a very long time. >>Yeah, we absolutely have. I think you know what you're referring to was back in the day the human network campaign and to your point that the load, the number of hosts, the traffic just overall, the intelligence of the network has just evolved tremendously over the last decade and a half, 15 years or so. And you look at where we are now in terms of the programmable nature of the network and what that enables in terms of new degrees of relevance that we can create for the customers on how you know the role of I t. Has changed entirely again, especially during this pandemic. You know, the fact that it's now as a service and elastic eyes is absolutely fundamental to being able to ensure, on an ongoing basis a great customer experience. And so it's been It's been a very interesting right, indeed. Yeah, >>And then and then just to close the loop, the one of your more later interviews talking to Sylvia. You're the question is, are you developer an engineer? So And your whole advice to all these network engineers is just Just don't jump in and start doing some coding and learning. So you know, the focus and really the emphasis and where the opportunity to differentiate is a complete is completely 15 years over to the, you know, really software to find side. >>Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, you look at how the software world and the network has come together and how we're applying now, you know, basically the same construct of C I C D pipeline to network infrastructure. Look at network really as code and get all of the benefits from that in the familiarity of it, the way that our engineers have had to evolve in that is just, you know, quite quite significant in like the skill set. And the best thing is jump in, you know, dip your toe in the water, but continue to evolve that skill set. And, you know, don't don't be shy. It's It's a leap of faith for some of us who've been in the industry a bit longer. You know, we like to look at ourselves as the craftsman of the network, but now it's definitely software Centris City and the, um, program ability. >>Right? So, Eric, you've got some digital exhaust out there, too, that I was able to dig up Going back to 2000 and 2 752 page book in the very back corner of a dark, dirty, dusty Amazon warehouse is managing Cisco Network Security 752 pages. Wow. How has security changed? From a time where before I could just read a book, a big book, you know, throw some protocols in and probably block a bunch of ports to the world that we live in today, where everything is connected, everything is a p. I driven. Everything is software defined. You've got pieces of workload spread out all over the place. And, Oh, by the way, you need to bake security in at every single level of the application stack. >>Yeah, No eso Wow. Kudos that you you found that book. I'm really impressed there, so thank you. Little street credit. So I want to get on something that you you talked about because I think it's very important to to this overall conversation if we think about the scale of the network and coun hit on it briefly. You talked about it as well. We're seeing a massive explosion of devices by the you know it's estimated By the end of this year, there's gonna be about 27 billion devices on the global Internet. That's about 3.7 devices for every man, woman and child life. And if we extrapolate that out over the course of the next decade on the growth trajectory, we're on. And if you look at some of the published research on this, it's estimated there could be upwards of 500 billion devices accessing the global Internet on a on a daily basis in the primarily that that that is I o T devices. That's digitally connected devices. Anything that can be connected will be connect, but then introduces a really interesting security challenge because every one of those devices that is accessing the global Internet is within a company's infrastructure. Accessing pieces of corporate data is a potential attack factor, so we really need Thio and I think the right expression for this is we need to reimagine security because security is, as you said, not about perimeters. You know, I wrote that book back in 2002. I was talking about firewalls and a cutting edge technology was intrusion, prevention and intrusion detection. Now we need to look at security. Really? In the in the guise of under the under the under the realm of really two aspects the identity. Who is accessing the data in the context, What data is being access and that is going to require a level of intelligence, a level of automation and technologies like machine learning, an automated intelligence. They're going to be our artificial intelligence. Rather are gonna be table stakes because the sheer scale of what we're trying to secure is going to be untenable under current. You know, just current security practices mean the network is gonna have to be incredibly intelligent and leverage again, a lot of that AI type of data to match patterns of potential attacks and ideally, shut them down before they ever cause any type of damage. >>Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, one thing That cove it has done a bunk many things is kind of re taught us all about the power of exponential curves and how extremely large those things are and how fast they grow. We had Dave Rennes in on it Google Cloud a couple years ago, and I remember him talking about early days of Google when they were starting to map out kind of, as you describe kind of map out their growth curves, and they just figured out they could not hire if they hired everybody, they couldn't hire enough people to deal with it, right? So really kind of rethinking automation and re thinking about the way that you manage these things and and the level right, the old Is it a pet or is it or is it, um, part of the herd? And I think it's interesting what you talked about coun really human powered Internet and being driven by a lot of this video. But to what you just said, Erik, the next big wave right is I, O. T and five G. And I think you know, you talk about 3.7 of devices per person. That's nothing compared toa right, all these sensors and all these devices and all these factories because five G is really targeted to machine to machines, which there's ah lot of them, and they trade a lot of information really, really quickly. So, you know, I want to go back to Yukun thinking about this next great wave in a five G i o t kind of driven world where it's kind of like one voice kind of fell off compared to I p traffic on the network, I think you're going to see the same thing. Kind of human generated data relative to machine generated data is also gonna fall off dramatically. Is the machine generated data just skyrockets through the roof? >>Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think thio also what Eric touched on the visibility on that and they'll be able to process that data at the edge that's going to catalyze cloud adoption even further. And it's gonna, you know, make the role of the network the connectivity of it all, and the security within that crucially important. And then you look at the role of program ability. Within that, we're see the evolution going so fast. You look at the element of the software defined network in an I. O. T. Speed space. We see that we have hosts there that are not necessarily, you know, behaving like other hosts would on a network, for example, manufacturing floor production, robot or security camera. And what we're seeing is we're seeing you know, partners and customers employing program ability to make sure that we overcome some of the shortcomings, uh, in terms of where the network is at. But then how do you customize it in terms of the relevance that it can provide, bringing on board those those hosts in a very transparent way on then, you know, keep keep the agility of it and keep the speed of innovation going right, >>right. So, Eric, I want to come back to you and shift gears kind of back to the people will leave the A. D and the machines along along for middle minute. But I'm curious about what does beat the boss. I mean, I I go to your LinkedIn profile and it's just filled with congratulatory statements, but everyone's talking about beating the boss. You know, it's it's a really, you know, kind of interesting and different way toe to motivate people to build this new skill set in terms of getting software certifications within the Cisco world. And I just thought it was really cute the way that you clearly got people motivated because there's posts all over the place and they've all got their their nice big badge of their certification. But, you know, at a higher level, it is a different motivation to be a developer versus and engineering a technician. And it's a, you know, kind of a different point of view. And I just wonder if you could share, you know, some of the ways that you're kind of encouraging, you know, kind of this transformation within your own workforce as well as the partners, etcetera and really adopting kind of almost a software first in this program kind of point of view versus, you know, I'm just wiring stuff up. >>Apparently, a lot of people like to beat me. So I mean, that in of itself was was a was a great success. But, you know, if we think we take a step back, you know, what is Cisco about as an organization? I mean, obviously, he looked back to the very early days of our vision, right? It was. It was to change the way the world, you know, worked, played, live and learn. And if you think about and you hit on this when we were you know, your discussion with with With Kun in the early days of Cove it. We really saw that play out as so much shifted from, you know, in person type of interactions to virtual interactions in the network that that our customers, our partners, our employees built over the course of the last several last three decades really help the world continue Thio to to do business for students to continue to go thio school or, you know, clinicians to connect with patients. If I think about that mission to meet program ability is just the next generation of that mission, uh, continuing to enable the world to communicate, continuing to enable customers, employees, partners to, uh, essentially leverage the network for more than just connectivity. Now the leverage it for critical insight again, If we look at some of the some of the use cases that we're seeing for social distancing and contact tracing, the network has a really important place to play there because we can pull insight from the but it isn't necessarily and out of the box type of integration. So I look at program ability and and what we're doing with debt net to give relevance to the network for those types of really critical conversations that every organization is having right now. It's a way to extrapolate its away thio full critical data so that I can make a decision and I if that decisions automated or if that decision requires some type of a manual intervention, regardless, we're still about connecting, or in this case, we're connecting insight with the people who need it most. The definite pounds we ran is really in respect for how critical this new skills that's going to be. It's not enough. Like I said, just to connect the world anymore. We need to leverage that network, the network for that critical insight. And when we dropped were created to beat the boss challenge, it was really simple. Hey, guys, I think this is important and I am going to go out, and I'm gonna achieve the certification myself because I want to continue to be very relevant. I'm gonna continue to be able to provide that insight for my customers and partners. So therefore I'm going for it. Anybody can get there before me. Maybe there's a little incentive tied to and the incentive, although it's funny, we interviewed a lot of ah, a lot of our team who achieved it Incentive with secondary. They just wanted have bragging rights like, Yeah, I beat Eric, Right, Right. >>Absolutely. No, that Z you know, put your money where your mouth is, right? If it's important than what you know, you should do it too. And you know, the whole not asking people to do what you wouldn't do yourself. So I think there's a lot of good leadership, uh, leadership lessons there as well. But I wanna extend kind of the conversation on the Koven impact. Right? Because I'm sure you've seen all the social media means you know who's driving your digital transformation, the CEO of the CMO or cove it. And we all know the answer to the question. But you know, you guys have already been dealing with kind of increased complexity around enterprise infrastructure, world in terms of cloud and public cloud and hybrid cloud and multi cloud, and people are trying to move stuff all the way around. Now suddenly had this co vid moment right in March, which is really a light switch moment. People didn't have time to plan or prepare for suddenly everybody working from home and it's not only you but your spouse and your kids and everybody else. So but now we're six months plus into this thing, and I would just love to get your perspective, you know, and kind of the change from Oh, my goodness, we have to react to the light switch moment. What do we do to make sure people can can get get what they need when they need it from where they are? But but then really moving from this is an emergency situation. Stopgap situation toe. This is going to extend for some period of time. And even when it's the acute crisis is over, you know this is going to drive. Ah, riel change in the way that people communicate in the way that people where they sit and do their job and kind of how customers are responding accordingly as the you know, kind of the narrative has changed from an emergency stop gap to this is the new normal that we really need thio to plan for. >>So I think I think you said it very well. I think anything that could be digitized any any interaction that could be driven virtually waas. And what's interesting is we, as you said. We went from that light switch moment where, and I believe the status this and I'll probably get the number wrong. But like in the United States here at the beginning, at the end of February, about 2% of the knowledge worker population was virtual, you know, working from home or in a remote work environment. And over the course of about 11 days, that number went from 2% to 70% in interesting that it worked. You know, there was a lot of hiccups along the way, and there was a lot of organizations making really quick decisions on How do I enable VPN scale of mass? How doe I, you know, leverage. You know, things like WebEx for virtual meetings in virtual connectivity much faster now that as you said that we've kind of gotten out of the fog of war or frog fog of battle organizations, we're looking at what they accomplished. And it was nothing short of Herculean and looking at this now from a transition. Thio Oh my gosh, we need to change, too. We have an opportunity to change and we're looking. We see a lot of organizations specifically around financial services, health care through the K through 20 educational environment, all looking at how can they doom or virtually for a couple of reasons? Obviously, there is a significant safety factor, and again, we're still in that we're still in the height of this pandemic. They want to make sure their employees, their customers, students patients remain safe. But second, we've found in discussions with a lot of senior I T executives and our customers that people are happier working from home. People are more productive working from home. And that again, the network that's been built over the course of the last few decades has been resilient enough to allow that to happen. And then, third, there is a potential cost savings here outside of people. The next most expensive resource that organizations are paying for is real estate. If they can shrink that real estate footprint while providing a better user experience at the locations that they're maintaining again leveraging things like location services, leveraging things like, uh, unified collaboration that's very personalized to the end users experience, they're going to do that and again they're going to save money. They're gonna have happier employees, and ultimately they're gonna make their their employees in their customers a lot safer. So we see, we believe that there is in some parts of the economy, a shift that is going to be more permanent. And some estimates put it as high as 15% of the current workforce is going to stay today in a virtual or a semi virtual working environment for the foreseeable future. >>Interesting. And I would say I'd say 15% is low, especially if you if you qualify it with, you know, part time, right? There was a great interview were doing and, you know, talk about working from home. He used to work from home as the exception, right? Because the cable person was coming or you get a new washing machine or something, where now that's probably get, you know, in many cases will shift to the other where I'm generally gonna work from home unless you know somebody's in town or have an important meeting or there's some special collaboration. Uh, that drives me to be in. But, you know, I wanna go back to Yukun and and really doubled down on. You know, I think most people spend too much time focusing, especially. We'll just say within the virtual events base where we play on the things you can't do virtually. We can't meet in the hall. We can't grab a quick coffee to drink instead of focusing on the positive things like we're accomplishing right here. You're in Belgium, right? Eric is in Ohio, were in California. Um, and you know, we didn't take three days to travel and and check into a hotel and and all that stuff to get together for this period of time. So there's a lot of stuff that digital enables. And I think, you know, people need to focus more on that versus continuing to focus on the two or three things that that it doesn't replace, and it doesn't replace those. So let's just get that off the table and move on with our lives because those are coming back anytime soon. >>No, totally. I think it's the balance of those things. It's guarding the fact that you're not necessarily working for home. I think the trick there is you could be sleeping at the office, but I think the positives airway way more out spoken. I you know, I look at myself I got much more exercise time in these last couple of months than I usually do because you don't travel. You don't have the jet lag and the connection. And then you talked about those face to face moments. I think a lot of people are, in a way, wanting to go back to the office part time, as Eric also explained. But a lot of it you could do virtually. We have virtual coffees with team or, you know, even here in Belgium are are local. General manager has, ah, virtual aperitif. Every Friday obviously skipped the one this week. But you know, there's there's ways to be very creative with the technology and the quality of the technology that the network enables, Um, you know, to to get the basketball world right, >>So I just we're gonna wrap the segment. I wanna give you guys both the last word. You both Francisco for a while and you know, Susie, we and the team on Definite has really grown this thing. I think we were there at the very beginning couple of 456 years ago. I can't keep track of time anymore, but you know, it's really really grown. And, you know, the timing is terrific to get into this more software defined world, which is where we are. I wonder if you could just, you know, kind of share a couple of thoughts is, you know, with a little bit of perspective. And you know what you're excited about today and kind of what you see coming down the road. Since you guys have been there for a while, you've been in the space. Uh, let's start with Yukun. >>Okay? I think the possibility it creates, I think, really program ability, software defined is really about the art of the possible. It's what you can dream up and then go code Eric talked about the relevance of it and how it maximizes that relevance. And a customer base is, um, you know, and then it is the evolution off the teams in terms of the creativity that they can bring to it. We're seeing really people dive into that in customers, um, co creating with us on. I think that's where we're going in terms of like the evolution off the value proposition there in terms of what technology can provide, but also how it impacts people as we discussed and and redefines process. >>I love that the art of the possible, which is a lot harder to execute in, uh, hardware than software certainly takes a lot longer. >>America, I >>love to get your thoughts. >>Absolutely. So I started my career in Cisco turning, putting I P phones onto the network. And back then, you know, it was, you know, 1 4002 when three idea of putting telephones onto the network was such a of just such an objectionable idea. And so many purists were telling us all the reasons it wouldn't work. Now, if we go forward again 19 years, the idea of not having them plugging into the network is a ridiculous idea. So we have a We're looking at an inflection point in this industry, and it's really it's not about programming is not necessarily about programming. It's about doing it smarter. It's about being more efficient. It's about driving automation. But again, it's about unlocking the value of what the network is. We've moved so far past what you know, just connectivity. The network touches everything and is more workload. Moves to the cloud is more workload moves to things like containers. The network is the really the only common element that ties all of these things together. The network needs to take its rightful place, uh, in the in the i t. Lexicon as being that critical for that critical insight provider for for how users are interacting with the network. How users air interacting with applications, how applications are interacting with one another. Program ability is a way to do that more efficiently with greater, greater degree of certainty, with much greater relevance into the overall delivery of I t services and digitization. So to me, I think we're gonna look back 20 years from now, probably even 10 and say, Man, we used to configure things manually. What was that like? I think I think really, this is This is the future, and I think we want to be aligned with where we're going versus where we've been. >>Well, coun Eric. Thank you for sharing your perspective. You know, it's it's really nice to have, you know, some historical reference on. It's also nice to be living in a new age where you can you can, you know, stay at the same company and and still refresh. You know, new challenges, new opportunities and grow this thing because a zoo said I remember those i p first i p phone days and I thought, Well, Ma Bell must be happy because the old Mother's Day problem is finally solved when we don't have to have a >>dedicated connection >>between every mother and every child in the middle of May. So good news. So thank you very much for sharing your, uh, your insights and really, really enjoyed the conversation. >>Thank you. >>Yeah. All >>right. He's kun. He was Eric. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube for continuing coverage of Cisco Definite Connect. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo ALTO, California It is a cute conversation. >>Hi, and welcome to the Cube Studios for another cube conversation where we go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry. I'm your host, Peter Boris. Everybody's talking about the cloud and with the cloud might be able to do for their business. The challenge is there are a limited number of people in the world who really understands what it means to build for the cloud utilizing the cloud. It's a lot of approximations out there, but not a lot of folks are deeply involved in actually doing it right. We've got one here with us today. Wound Junk is thesis CEO and co founder of Clue Meo Womb. Welcome to the Cube. >>Happy to be here. >>So let's start with this issue of what it means to build for the cloud. Now Lou Meows made the decision to have everything fit into that as a service model. What does that practically need? >>So from the engineering point of view, building our sauce application is fundamentally different. So the way that I'll go and say is that at Cuneo. We actually don't build software and ship software. What we actually do, it builds service and service is what you're actually shipped our customers. Uh, let me give you an example. In the case of Kun, you they say backups fail like so far sometimes fails. We get that failures too. The difference in between Clooney oh, and traditional solutions is that if something were to fail, we are they one detecting that failure before our customers do Not only that, when something fails, we actually know exactly why it failed. Therefore, we can actually troubleshoot it, and we can actually fix it and operate the service without the customer intervention. So it's not about the books also or about the troubleshooting aspect, but it's also about new features. If you were to introduce a new features, we can actually do this without having customers upgraded call. We will actually do it ourselves. So essentially it frees the customers from actually doing all these actions because we will do them on behalf of them >>at scale. And I think that's the second thing I want to talk about quickly. Is that the ability to use the cloud to do many of the things that you're talking about at scale creates incredible ranges of options that customers have at their disposal. So, for example, a W s customers of historically using like snapshots to provide ah modicum of data protection to their AWS workloads. But there are other new options that could be applied if the systems are built to supply them. Give us a sense of how clue Meal is looking at this question of, you know, snapshots were something else. >>Yes, so, basically, traditionally, even on their own prints, out of the things you have something called the snapshots and you had your backups right, and they're they're fundamentally different. But if you actually shift your gears and you look at what A. W S offers today, they actually offers the ability for you to take snapshots. But actually that's not a backup, right? And they're they're fundamentally different. So let's talk about it a little bit more what it means to be snapshots and a backup. Right? So they say, there's a bad actor and your account gets compromised like your AWS account gets compromised. So then the bad actor has access not only to the EBS volumes, but also to the snap shows. What that means is that that person can actually go in and delete the E. V s volume as well as the TVs. No options. Now, If you had a backup, let's say you are should take a backup of that TVs William to whom? You, that bad actor would have access to the CVS volumes. However, it won't be able to delete the backup that we actually have, including you. So in the whole thing. The idea off Romeo is that you should be able to protect all of your assets, that being either an on Prem or neither of us by setting up a single policies. And these are true backups and not just snapshots. >>And that leads to the last question I have, which is ultimately the ability to introduce thes capabilities. At scale creates a lot of new opportunities that customers can utilize to do a better job of building applications, but also, I presume, managing how they use AWS because snapshots and other types of service can expand dramatically, which can increase your cost. How is doing it better with things like native backup service is improve customers ability to administer the AWS spend and accounts. >>So great question. So, essentially, if you look at the enterprises today, obviously they have multiple on premise data centers and also a different car providers that they use like AWS and azure and also a few sauce applications. Right? So then the idea is for Camilo is to create this single platform. What? All of the stains can actually be backed up in a uniform way where you can actually manage all of them. And then the other thing is all doing it in the cloud. So if you think about it, if you don't solve the problem, fundamental in the car, their stings that you end up paying later on. So let's take an example. Right. Uh, moving bites moving bites in between one server to the other, traditionally basically moving bites from one rack to the other. It was always free. You never had to pay anything for that. >>Certainly in the data center, >>right? But if you actually go to the public cloud, you cannot say the same thing, right? Basically, moving by across AWS recent regions is not free anymore. Moving data from AWS to the on premises. That's not for either. So these are all the things that any, you know, cop provider service provider, because has to consider and actually solved so that the customers can on Lee back it up into Clem you. But then they actually can leverage different cloud providers, you know, in a seamless way, without having to worry all of this costs associated with it so criminal we should be able to back it up. But we should be able to also offer mobility in between either aws back up the M word or the M. C. >>So if I can kind of summarize what you just said that you want to be able to provide to an account to an enterprise the ability to not have to worry about the back and infrastructure from a technical and process standpoint, but not also have to worry so much about the back and infrastructure from a cost of financial standpoint that by providing a service and then administering how that service is optimally handled, the customer doesn't have to think about some of those financial considerations of moving data around in the same way that they used to have. I got that right? >>I absolutely yes. Basically multiple accounts, multiple regions, multiple couple providers. It is extremely hard to manage. What come you does? It will actually provide you a single pane of glass where you can actually manage them all. But then, if you actually think about just and manageability this actually you can actually do that by just building a management layer on top of it. But more importantly, you really need to have a single data repository for you. For us to be able to provide a true mobility in between them. One is about managing. But the other thing is about if you're done, if you're done with the real divide way, it provides you the belly to move them and leverages the cloud power so that you don't have to worry about the cloud expenses but whom you internally is the one that actually optimizing all of this for our customers. >>Wound young cto and co founder of Cleo. Thanks very much for being on the Q. Thank you. And thank you for joining us for another cube conversation. I'm Peter Bursts. See you next time

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo ALTO, California It is a cute conversation. >>Welcome to another wicked bond digital community event, this one sponsored by Clue Me. Oh, I'm your host, Peter Burroughs. Any business that aspires to be a digital business needs to think about its data differently. It needs to think about how data could be applied to customer experience, value propositions, operations and improve profitability and strategic options for the businesses that moves forward. But that means openly, either. We're thinking about how we embed data more deeply into our operations. That means we must also think about how we're going to protect that data. So the business is not suffer because someone got a hold of our data or corrupted our data or that system just failed and we needed to restore that data very quickly. Now what we want to be able to do is we're going to do that in a way that's natural and looks a lot like a cloud because we want that cloud experience in our data protection as well. So that's we're gonna talk about with Clue Meo Today, a lot of folks think in terms of moving all the data into the cloud. We think increasingly we have to recognize the cloud is not a strategy for centralizing data but rather distributing data and being able to protect that data where it is utilizing a simple, common cloudlike experience has become an increasingly central competitive need for a lot of digital enterprises. The first conversation we had was with poo John Kamar, who John is a CEO and co founder of Cuneo. Let's hear a Peugeot on had to say about data value. Data service is and clue Meo. John, Welcome to the show. >>Thank you. Very nice to be here. >>So give us the update. Include me. Oh, >>so come you. Ah, a two year old company, right? We dress recently launched out of stealth. So so far, you know, we we came out with the innovative offering which is a sass solution to go and protect on premises in November and vmc environments. That's what we launched out of style two months ago. We want our best of show. When we came out off Stilton in November 2019. But ultimately we started with a vision about protecting data respective off buried, recites So it was all about, you know, you know, on premises on Cloud and other SAS service is so one single service that protects data introspective about recites So far, we executed on on premises VM wear and Vmc. Today What we're announcing for the first time is our protection to go and protect applications natively built on aws. So these are application that ineptitude natively built on aws that clue me in as a service will protect respective off. You know them running, you know, in one region or cross region cross accounts and a single service little our customers to protect native AWS applications. The other big announcement we're making is a new round of financing, and that is testament to the interest in the space and the innovative nature off the platform that we have built. So when we came out of still, we announced we had raised two rounds of financing $51 million in series and series B round of financing. Today, what we're announcing is a serious see around the financing off $135 million the largest. I would say Siri see financing for a sass and the price company, especially a company that's a little over two years >>old. Look, graduations that's gonna buy a lot of new technology and a lot of customer engagement. But what customers is a set up from where customers are really looking for is they're looking for tooling and methods and capabilities that allow them to treat their data differently. Talk a bit about the central importance of data and how it's driving decisions. ACLU mia >>Yes, so fundamentally. You know, when we built out the data platform, it was about going after the data protection as the first use case in the platform. Longer term, the journey really is to go from a data protection company to a data management company, and this is possible for the first time because you have the public cloud on your side. If you're truly built a platform for the cloud on the public cloud, you have this distinct and want a JJ off. Now, taking the data that you're protecting and really leveraging it for other service is that you can enable the enterprise for, and this is exactly what and the prices are asking for, especially as they you know, you make a transition from on premises. So the public cloud where they're powering on more and more applications in the public cloud and they really, you know, sometimes have no idea in terms off where the data is sitting and how they can take advantage off all these data sources that ultimately clueless protecting >>Well, no idea where the data sitting take advantage of these data. Sources presumably facilitate new classes of integration because that's how you generate value out of data. That suggests that we're not just looking at protection as crucially important as it is we're looking at new classes of service is they're gonna make it possible to alter the way you think about data management. If I got that right and what are those in service is? >>Yes, it's It's a journey, As I said, very starting with Finnegan Data protection. It's also about doing there the protection across multiple clouds, right? So ultimately we had a platform. Even though we're announcing, you know, aws, you know, applications support. Today. We've already done the ember and BMC as we go along. You'll see us kind of doing this across multiple clouds, an application that's built on the cloud running across multiple clouds, AWS, Azure and DCP. Whatever it might be, you see, it's kind of doing there, the protection across in applications and multiple clouds. And then it's about going and saying, Can we take advantage of the data that we're protecting and really power on adjusting to use cases, they could be security use cases because we know exactly what's changing when it's changing. There could be infrastructure. Analytics use cases because people are running tens of thousands off instances and containers and envy EMS in the public cloud. And if a problem happens, nobody really knows what caused it. And we have all the data and we can kind off index it in the back end and lies in the back end without the customer needing to lift a finger and really show them what happened in their environment that didn't know about right. So there's a lot of interesting use cases that get powered on because you have the ability to index all the data year. You have the ability to essentially look at all the changes that are happening and really give that visibility. Tow the end customer and all of this one click and automating it without the customer needing to do much. >>I will tell you this that we've talked to a number of customers of Romeo and the fundamental choice. The clue. Meo choice was simplicity. How are you going to sustain that? Even as you have these new classes of service is >>that is the key right? And that is about the foundation we have built at the end of the day, right? So if you look at all of our customers that have on border today, it's really the experience where in less than 15 minutes they can essentially start enjoying the power of the platform and the back end that we have built. And the focus on design that we have is ultimately why we're able to do this with simplicity. So so when when we when we think about you know all the things we do in the back, and there's obviously a lot of complexity in the back end because it is a complex platform. But every time we ask ourselves the question that okay from a customer perspective, how do we make sure that it is one click and easy for them? So that focus and that attention to detail that we have behind the scenes to make sure that the customer ultimately should just consumed the service and should not need to do anything more than what they absolutely need to do so that they can essentially focus on what eggs value to the business >>takes a lot of technology, a lot of dedication to make complex things really simple. Absolutely. John Kumar, CEO and co founder of Coolio. Thanks very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. Great conversation with you, John. Data value leading to data service is now. Let's think a little bit more about how enterprises ultimately need to start thinking about how to manifest that in a cloud rich world, Chad Kenney is the vice president and chief acknowledges a Cuneo and Chad and I had an opportunity to sit down to talk about some of the interesting approach. Is that air possible because of cloud and very importantly, to talk about a new announcement that clue me is making as they expand their support of different cloud types? What's your Chad had to say? The notion of data service is has been around for a long time, but it's being upended, recast, reformed as a consequence of what cloud can do. But that also means that Cloud is creating new ways of thinking about data service. Is new opportunities to introduce and drive this powerful approach of thinking about digital businesses centralized assets and to have that conversation about what that means. We've got Chad Candy, who's a VP and chief technologist of Kumiko with us today. Chad, welcome to the Cube. >>Thanks so much for having me. >>Okay, so what? Start with that notion of data service is and the role because gonna play clue. Meo has looked at this problem or looked this challenge from the ground up. What does that mean? >>So if you look at the cloud is a whole customers have gone through a significant journey. We've seen you know that the first shadow I t kind of play out where people decided to go to the cloud I t was too slow. It moved into kind of a cloud first movement where people realize the power of cloud service is that then got them to understand a little bit of interesting things that played out one moving applications as they exist. We're not very efficient, and so they needed to re architect certain applications. Second, SAS was a core way of getting to the cloud in a very simplistic fashion without having to do much of whatsoever. And so, for applications that were not core competencies, they realized they should go sass. And for anything that was a core competency, they needed to really re architect to be able to take advantage of those very powerful cloud service is. And so when you look at it, if people were to develop applications today, cloud is the default. They'd go tours. And so for us, we had the luxury of building from the cloud up on these very powerful cloud service is to enable a much more simple model for our customers to consume. But even more so to be able to actually leverage the agility and elasticity of the cloud. Think about this for a quick second. We can take facilities, break them up, expand them across many different compute resource is within the cloud versus having to take kind of what you did on prim in a single server or multitudes of servers and try to plant that in the cloud from a customer's experience perspective. It's vastly different. You get a world where you don't think about how you manage the infrastructure, how you manage the service, you just consume it. And the value that customers get out of that is not only getting their data there, which is the on ramp around our data protection mechanisms, but also being able to leverage cloud. Native service is on top of that data in the longer term, as we have this one comment global index and platform. What we're super excited today to announce is that we're adding in eight of US native capabilities to be ableto protect that data in the public cloud. And this is kind of the default place where most people go to from a cloud perspective to really get their applications are up and running and take advantage of a lot of those cloud. Native service is >>well, if you're gonna be Claude native and promised to customers is going to support There were clothes. You've got to be obviously on eight of us, So congratulations on that. But let's go back to this notion of you use the word powerful 80 of the U. S. Is a mature platform, G C P is coming along very rapidly. Azure is also very, very good. There are others as well, but sometimes enterprises discover that they have to make some tradeoffs. To get the simplicity, they have to get less function, to get the reliability they have to get rid of simplicity. How does clue Meo think through those trade offs to deliver that simple? That powerful, that reliable platform for something is important. Data protection and data service is in general, >>so we wanted to create an experience that was single click, discover everything and be able to help people consume that service quickly. And if you look at the problem that people are dealing with a customer's talk to us about this all time is the power of the cloud resulted in hundreds, if not thousands of accounts within eight of us. And now you get into a world where you're having to try to figure out how did I manage all of these for one? Discover all of it and consistently make sure that my data, which, as you've mentioned, is incredibly important to businesses today as protected. And so having that one common view is incredibly important to start with, and the simplicity of that is immensely powerful. When you look at what we do as a business, to make sure that that continues to occur is first, we leverage cloud. Native Service is on the back, which are complex, and getting those things to run and orchestrate are things that we build on the back end on the front end. We take the customers view and looking at what is the most simple way of getting this experience to occur for both discovery as well as you know, backup recovery and even being able to search in a global fashion and so really taking their seats to figure out what would be the easiest way to both consume the service and then also be able to get value from it by running that service >>A W s has been around well, a ws in many respects founded the cloud industry. It's it's certainly sales force on the South side. But a W. S is the first company to make the promise that it was gonna provide this very flexible, very powerful, very agile infrastructures of service. And they've done absolutely marvelous job about it, and they've also advanced the stadium to the technology dramatically and in many respects, are in the driver's seat. What tradeoffs? What limits does your new platform faces? It goes to eight of us. Or is it the same Coolio experience, adding, Now all of the capabilities of eight of us? >>It's a great question. I think a lot of solutions out there today are different parts and pieces kind of club together. What we built is a platform that these new service is just get instantly added. Next time you log in to that service, you'll see that that available Thio and you could just go ahead and log in to your accounts and build to discover directly. And I think that the the power of sass is really that not only have we made it immensely secure, which is something that people think about quite a bit with having, you know, not only did in flight, but data at rest, encryption on and leveraging really the cloud capabilities of security. But we've made it incredibly simple for them to be able to consume that easily, literally not lift a finger to get anything done. It's available for you when you log into that system. And so having more and more data sources in one single pane of glass and being able to see all the accounts, especially in AWS, where you have quite a few of those accounts, and to be able to apply policies in a consistent fashion to ensure that your you know, compliant within the environment for whatever business requirements that you have around data protection is immensely powerful to our >>customers. Judd Jenny, chief technologist Clue me Oh, thanks very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. Great conversation. Chad especially interested in hearing about how Camilo is being extended to include eight of US service, is within its overall data protection approach and obviously into data service is let's take a little bit more into that clue. MEOWS actually generated and prepared a short video we could take a look at that goes a little bit more deeply into how this is all gonna work. >>Enterprises air moving rapidly to the cloud. Embracing sass for simplified delivery of key service is in this cloud centric world. I T teams could focus on more strategic work, accelerating digital transformation initiatives when it comes to backup. I t is stuck designing, patching and capacity planning for on Prem Systems. Snapshots alone for data protection in the public cloud is risky, and there are hundreds of unprotected SAS applications in the typical enterprise. Move to cloud should make backup simpler, but it can quickly become exponentially worse. It's time to rethink the backup experience. What if there were no hardware, software or virtual appliances to size, configure, manage or even by it all? And by adding enterprise backup, public cloud workloads are no longer exposed to accidental data Deletion and Ransomware and Clooney. Oh, we deliver secure data backup and recovery without any of that complexity or risk. We provide all of the critical functions of enterprise backup de Doop and scheduling user and key management and cataloging because were built in the public cloud, weaken rapidly, deliver new innovations and take advantage of inherent data security controls. Our mission is to protect your data wherever it's stored. The clue. Meo authentic SAS backup experience scales on demand to manage and protect your data more easily and efficiently. And without things like cloud bills or egress charges, Clooney oh gives you predictable costs. Monitor and global back of compliance is far simpler, and the built in always on security of clue. Meo means that your data is safe. Take advantage of the cloud for backup with no constraints. Clue. Meo Authentic sass for the Enterprise. >>Great video as we think about moving forward in the future and what customers are trying to do. We have to think more in terms of the native service is that cloud can provide and how to fully exploit them to increase the aggregate flexibility both within our enterprises, but also based on what our supplies have to offer. We had a great conversation with Runes Young, who is thesis CTO and co founder of Cuneo, about just that. Let's hear it wound had to say everybody's talking about the cloud and what the cloud might be able to do for their business. The challenge is there are a limited number of people in the world who really understands what it means to build for the cloud utilizing the cloud. It's a lot of approximations out there, but not a lot of folks are deeply involved in actually doing it right. We've got one here with us today, wound junk is thesis CEO and co founder of Clue Meo Womb. Welcome to the Cube. >>Happy to be here. >>So let's start with this issue of what it means to build for the cloud. Now Lou MEOWS made the decision to have everything fit into that as a service model. What is that practically need? >>So from the engineering point of view, building our sauce application is fundamentally different. So the way that I'll go and say is that at Cuneo we actually don't build software and ship software. What we actually do, it builds service and service is what you're actually shipped Our customers. Let me give you an example. In the case of Kun, you they say backups fail like so far sometimes fails. We get that failures too. The difference in between Clooney oh, and traditional solutions is that if something were to fail, we are they one detecting that failure before our customers do Not only that, when something fails, we actually know exactly why it failed. Therefore, we can actually troubleshoot it, and we can actually fix it and operate the service without the customer intervention. So it's not about the books also or about the troubleshooting aspect, but it's also about new features. If you were to introduce a new features, we can actually do this without having customers upgraded call. We will actually do it ourselves. So essentially it frees the customers from actually doing all these actions because we will do them on behalf of them >>at scale. And I think that's the second thing I want to talk about quickly. Is that the ability to use the cloud to do many of the things that you're talking about? At scale creates incredible ranges of options that customers have at their disposal. So, for example, a W s customers of historically used things like snapshots to provide ah modicum of data protection to their AWS workloads. But there are other new options that could be applied if the systems are built to supply them. Give us a sense of how clue Meal is looking at this question of, you know, snapshots were something else. >>Yes, So, basically, traditionally, even on the imprints, out of the things, you have something called the snapshots and you had your backups right, and they're they're fundamentally different. But if you actually shift your gears and you look at what A. W s offers today. They actually offers stability for you to take snapshots. But actually, that's not a backup, right, And they're fundamentally different. So let's talk about it a little bit more what it means to be snapshots and a backup, right? So they say, there's a bad actor and your account gets compromised like your AWS account gets compromised. So then the bad actor has access not only to the EBS volumes, but also to the snap shows. What that means is that that person can actually go in and delete the E. V s volume as well as the TVs nuptials. Now, if you had a backup, let's say you are should take a backup of that TVs William to whom you that bad actor would have access to the CVS volumes. However, it won't be able to delete the backup that we actually have, including you. So in the whole thing. The idea off Romeo is that you should be able to protect all of your assets, that being either an on Prem or neither of us by setting up a single policies. And these are true backups and not just snapshots >>and that leads to the last question I have, which is ultimately the ability to introduce thes capabilities. At scale creates a lot of new opportunities of customers can utilize to do a better job of building applications, but also, I presume, managing how they use AWS because snapshots and other types of service can expand dramatically, which can increase your cost. How is doing it better with things like Native Backup Service is improve customers ability to administer the AWS spend and accounts. >>So, great question. So, essentially, if you look at the enterprises today, obviously they have multiple on premise data centers and also a different car providers that they use like AWS and Azure and also a few SAS applications, Right? So then the idea is for Camilo is to create this single platform what all of the stains can actually be backed up in a uniform way where you can actually manage all of them. And then the other thing is all doing it in the cloud. So if you think about it, if you don't solve the problem, fundamental in the cow, their stings that you end up paying later on. So let's take an example. Right. Uh, moving bites. Moving bites in between one server to the other. Traditionally basically moving bites from one rack to the other. It was always free. You never had to pay anything for that. >>Certainly in the data center. >>Right? But if you actually go to the public cloud, you cannot say the same thing, right? Basically, moving by across AWS recent regions is not free anymore. Moving data from AWS to the on premises. That's not for either. So these are all the things that you know cop provider service providers are gods has to consider and actually solved so that the customers can on Lee back it up into come you. But then they actually can leverage different cloud providers, you know, in a seamless way, without having to worry all of this costs associated with it so criminal we should be able to back it up. But we should be able to also offer mobility in between either aws back up the M word or the M C. >>So if I can kind of summarize what you just said that you want to be able to provide to an account to an enterprise, the ability to not have to worry about the back and infrastructure from a technical and process standpoint, but not also have to worry so much about the back and infrastructure from a cost of financial standpoint that by providing a service and then administering how that service is optimally handled, the customer doesn't have to think about some of those financial considerations of moving get around in the same way that they used to. Have I got that right, >>I absolutely, yes, basically multiple accounts, multiple regions, multiple couple providers. It is extremely hard to manage. What come your does. It will actually provide you a single pane of glass where you can actually manage them all. But then, if you actually think about just and manageability this, actually you can actually do that by just building a management layer on top of it. But more importantly, you really need to have a single data repository for you. For us to be able to provide a true mobility in between them. One is about managing, but the other thing is about if you're done, if you're done in the real divide way, it provides you the ability to move them and leverages the cloud power so that you don't have to worry about the cloud expenses but whom you internally is the one that actually optimizing all of this for our customers. >>Wound young cto and co founder of Coolio. Thanks very much for being on the Q. Thank you. Thanks very much. Room I want to thank clue me Oh, for providing this important content about the increasingly important evolution of data protection Cloud. Now, here's your opportunity to weigh in on this crucially important arena. What do you think about this evolving relationship? How do you foresee it operating in your enterprise? What comments do you have? What questions do you have of the thought leaders from Clue Me? Oh, and elsewhere. That's what we gonna do now we're gonna go into the crowd chat. We're gonna hear from each other about this really important topic and what you foresee in your enterprise as your digital business transforms, it's crochet

from Austin Texas it's the cube covering cube con and cloud native con 2017 brought to you by Red Hat the Lenox foundations and the cubes ecosystem partners well everyone welcome back to our exclusive coverage from the cube here in Austin Texas we're live on the floor at cloud native con and cube con cubic on like kubernetes gone not the cube con us but cute con we're Michele norelli who's the senior software engineer at Microsoft also the co-chair with Kelsey Heights our great event record-setting attendance I'm John ferry your host with stew minimun Michele welcome to the cube thank you so much for having me so people don't know about if they might have watch the street if you had a stream you're on stage keynoting and managing the whole program here congratulations more attendees here at this event than all the other cube cause of cloud native combined shows the growth and interest in a new way to develop new way to engage with other developers and create value yeah kubernetes has been the heart of it explain cloud native con and cube con what's the difference because I love cloud native but what's this Cooper Denny's thing I love that too yeah was it related a intertwine Wayne take him into his plane there's a there's a really big kubernetes audience and community and they need time to engage and just like work with each other and learn from each other and that's where coop Connie came from soku-kun with the original conference and the first one was a November in Seattle in 2016 and I was actually at that wine was a few hundred people and it was just so small people were actually asking like what is a pod what is kubernetes which are fine questions asked today as well but it was everyone was asking this question nobody was past that point and then you know kubernetes was donated to the CNCs and there were also these other cloud native projects that came about in the space and so we wanted a conference that encompasses both all of the cloud native projects as well as serbs the kubernetes community as well so that's where both of them came from some of the other cloud native projects have their own conferences like Prometheus has prom time and that's been growing as well I think the last one was 200 people up from 70 the last so I gotta ask you because we even cover us we were there at the cube con I was actually having drinks with Luke Tucker at JJ we're like hey we should do this Cuban Eddie's thing and bolted onto the Linux Foundation so you're president creates with the whole team it's been fun to watch Wow yeah but it's the tale of two stories in the community in the industry companies that got funded and we're building open-source and our participants who are building projects out and then a new onboarding of new developers coming into the community a lot of first-timers here you're seeing a visibility into the success of cloud yeah and they're Rieger engaged so you got a lot of folks who have invested into the community and new entrants a migration into the community yeah what does that dynamic mean to the CN CF how is that impacting how you structure in the programming and what are some of the insiders talking about what it is what's the reality yeah I think a lot of it has to do with you know this is a really positive community and there are just like so many people working together and collaborating not just because they I mean it looks like nice to be in a positive community right but you kind of have to like these problems are really hard and it's good to learn from different organizations that have like come across these projects or problems starting in the in the space before and they'll come and collaborate I think some of the things that we've been talking about inside the community is how to actually how to onboard people so the kubernetes community is starting up a new mentorship program to help people that are new to the community start learning how to review code and then PR code and and be productive members in the community and whatever they whatever area they want miss Michelle want to hear about kind of some of the breadth and depth of the community here yeah you know we went there's so many announcements there's a bunch of wando's yeah it's a brand new project I think what it was four projects a year ago and it's now 14 you know right how does somebody's supposed to get their arms around it should they be beat me about that you know where should somebody start you know what do you recommend yeah start with the that's a great question by the way I think that people should start with with a solution to a problem they already have so just know that people have run into these problems before and you should just go into the thing that you know about first and then if that leads you to a different problem and there's a solution that the CNCs you know has already come across then you can go into and dive into the other palms for example I am really interested in kubernetes and have been in that space but I think tracing is really interesting too and I want to start learning how to incorporate that into my workflow as well so show you you're also one of the diversity chairs yeah for the event you talk about kind of a diverse global nature of this community yeah we are spread across all time zone so I actually want to share an experience I have as a sake lead in kubernetes so at first I really wanted to serve all of the time zones and so we have these weekly sick meetings at 9:30 a.m. Pacific and I was like no maybe we should have like alternate meetings like alternate weekly meetings for other time zones but after talking to those the people in the other time sounds like they're very far off actually like China Asia Pacific I realize that they're actually more interested in reading notes and watching videos which is something I didn't actually know you know it's it's you think like oh you have to serve every community in the same way but what I've learned and face to face yeah base to base exactly and that's not actually how that's not how actually everybody wants to interact and so that's been an interesting thing I've learned from the diverse nature and this in the space let's see a challenges I mean we've been talking we're just that reinvent last week at Amazon obviously the number of services that they're rolling out is pretty strong there's a leader in the cloud but as multi cloud becomes the choice for most most enterprises and businesses the service requirements the baseline is got to be established seeing your community rolling out a lot of great new services but storage old storage is transferring to machine learning in AI and you got I Oh tea right around the corner new new kinds of applications yeah okay it's changing the game on the old card storage and security obviously two important areas you got to store the data data is that the card of the value proposition and then security security how are you guys dealing with that those challenges those political grounds that people are have a lot of making a lot of money in an old storage you mean ship a storage drive and here's an architecture those are being disrupted yeah I think they I mean they'll continue to be disrupted I think people are just going to bring in new and new more new and new use cases and then people will come and meet them meet those customers where they are and people just have to change I guess get used to it yeah shifter die yeah I think that some that that we are getting to that point but I can't only time will tell we'll see what are something exciting things that you see from the new developers I just recognize some friends here that I've haven't that dark wondering the community are new and they're kind of like licking their chops like wow what an excitement I could feel value and I could have a distribution I got a community and I can make money and then Dan said you know project products profits you put the product profit motive right on the table but he's clear at the same not pay to play it's okay to have profits if you have a good product for me project I buy that but the new developers like that because as an end scoreboard what are you guys doing with that new community what survived there around those kinds of opportunities you guys creating any programs for them or yeah I think just to just they can get involved you know I think knowledge is power perspective is power also so being involved helps give you a perspective to see where those gaps are and then come up with those services that are profitable or those tools that are profitable and I think this space can be very lucrative based on the number of people he sponsors I think he said he said the show was wondering if you can comment when you're building the schedule how do you balance you know all those platinum sponsors versus you know some of the you know practitioner companies that are also getting involved how do you there are there are different levels of sponsorship right like you mentioned the events team has a sponsorship section or sponsorship team and they handle most of placing sponsors and all of that and so they'll get whatever level they want but actually Kelsey and I do a lot of research and see like what's happening in the community what's interesting what's new and and we'll find time to highlight that as well which one is research what's your role in Microsoft share with the audience what are you working on what's your day-to-day job is it just foundation work are you doing coding what do you coding what's your fav is the VI MX what do you prefer yes my work is 30% community and 70% engineering I really love engineering but I also really love the community and just getting these opportunities to give back you know build skills as well learning how to speak in front of people as well these are both valuable skills to learn and it gives me an opportunity to just give back what I've learned so I appreciate those but I mostly work on developer tools that are open source that help people use containers and kubernetes a little more easily so I work on projects like Helms drafts and Brigade and these are just like things that we've seen the pain points that we've experienced and we want to kind of share our solutions with them so draft is the one I've been working on a lot have you heard of drops okay let me do the two second draft is a tool for application developers to build containerized apps without really understanding or having to understand all of what is kubernetes and containers so that's my favorite space to know you know one of the things we look at coming in here is there's that balance between there's complexity but there's flexibility you know I've heard Kelsey talking about our on when I talk to customer they're like oh I love kubernetes because I take vault and I take envoy and I take all these different things that put together and it does what I want but a lot of people are daunted and they say oh I want to I want to just go to Microsoft Azure and they'll take care of that so how do you look at that and what is the balance that we should be looking for as an industry yeah we've been emphasizing in the community a lot on plug ability across contracts it's like a theme that I think almost every project hurts and a word that you'll hear a lot I'm sure you already have heard a lot and I think that's because you can't meet everyone's needs so you build this modular component that does one thing very well and then you learn how to extend it and or you give people the ability to extend it and so that's really great for scaling a project I I do really appreciate the clouds coming out all of them with their own managed services because it's hard to operate and understand all of these things it's it takes a lot of depth in knowledge context and just prior experience and so I think that'll just make it a lot easier for people to onboard onto these technologies I was going to ask you I was going to ask so you brought up fug ability we saw you know Netflix on stage was his phenomenal of the culture yeah dynamic I think that the Schumer important conversation you know something we've been talking about silage is a real part of what we're seeing tech being a part of but the the things that popped out at me in the keynote were service mesh and pluggable architecture so I want to get your thoughts for the folks that aren't there is that in the trenches and inside the ropes what is a pluggable architecture and what is a service mesh these days because you got lyft and uber and all these great companies who have built hyper scale and large-scale systems in open source and now our big tech success stories donating these kinds of approaches pluggable architectures and service man talk a minute to explain so pluggable architectures this is why you have one layer of your stuff there's a piece of software that does something does one thing very well but you know every I like to say that every company is a snowflake and that's okay and so you may have some workflow or need that is specific to your company and so we shouldn't limit you to just what we think is the right solution to a problem we should allow you to extend or extend these pieces of software with modular components or just extensible components that that work for you does that make a little more sense yeah I work on helm and we also have a pluggable architecture because we were just getting so many requests from the community and it didn't make sense to put everything in the core code based if we did if we accepted one thing it would really just interrupt somebody else's workflow so that that's helped us a lot in in my personal experience I really like plug water it's actually that means you can go build a really kick butt app yeah nail it down to your specifications but decoupler from a core or avoiding kind the old spaghetti code mindset but kind of creating a model where it can be leveraged yeah plugin we all know plugins are but right so so that someone else could take advantage of it exactly yeah a service mesh that's evolved yeah heard a lot of that what is that yeah it's um so developers this is actually the lift story is really interesting to me so at lyft developers were really uneasy about moving from the monolith to the micro-services architecture just because they didn't early understand the network component and we're like network reliability would not be so reliable would fail and time service meshes have allowed engineers at lyft to understand where their failures happen and in terms like of a network standpoint and so you're basically abstracting with network layer and allowing more transparency into it this is like very useful for when you have lots of Micra services and you want this kind of reliability and stability awesome so one point 9s coming Spence support Windows that's what key and now a congratulations just go to the next level I mean growth talk about the growth because it's fun for us to watch you know kind of a small group core young community less than three years old really to kubernetes kind of had some traction but it really is going to be commoditized and that's not a bad thing so how do you what's your take on this what's the vibe what's that what's the current feeling inside the community right now excited pinching ourselves no I think everybody's in awe everybody is in awe and we're just like we want to make this the best experience possible in terms of an open source experience you know we want to welcome people to the community we want to serve the people's needs and we just we just want to do a good job because this is really fun and I think the people working on these problems are having a lot of fun with with seeing this kind of growth and support it's been great certainly for US president creation president and creation of this whole movement it's been fun to watch a document final question what should people expect this week what is the show going to hopefully do what's your prediction what's your purpose here what should people expect this week and the folks that didn't make it what do they miss okay there are so many things happening it's insane you're going to get a little bit of everything there's lots of different tracks lots of diverse content I think I'm when I go to conferences in my personal experience I really love technical salons those are really great because you can get your hands dirty and you can get questions answered by the people who created the project that's an experience that is is really powerful for me I went to the first open tracing salon and that's where I kind of got my hands dirty with tracing and been siegelman who's doing the keynote today this afternoon was the person who was teaching me how to like do this stuff so yeah it was awesome like some marketing fluff no it's not and it's just like it's it's real experienced very expert like experts you know in the in the space teaching you these things so that that definitely can't be replicated I think the cig sessions will be really cool there's a big focus on not just learning stuff but also collaborating and and just talking about things before they get documented so that's a really good experience here it's an action-packed schedule I tweeted that it feels like I'm you know when Burning Man had like a hundred people announced this big thing I think this is the beginning of a amazing industry people are cool they're helpful they're getting you're getting involved answering questions open-book here yeah at cloud native Punk you've got thanks Michele Farrelly been coming on co-chair senior engineer at Microsoft great to have her on the cube great keynote great color great fun exciting times here at cloud native con I'm John furry the founders look at angle media with too many men my co-hosts more live coverage after the short break