>>live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the Cube covering Cisco Live 2020 right to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners >>back. This is the Cube's coverage >>of Cisco Live 2020 here in Barcelona, doing about three and 1/2 days of wall to wall coverage here. Stew Minimum. My co host for this segment is Dave Volante. John Furrier is also here, scaring the floor and really happy to welcome to the program. Two first time guests. I believe so. Uh, Derek is the product manager of product marketing for Cloud Computing with Cisco, and sitting to his left is Matt Ferguson, who's director of product development, also with the Cisco Cloud Group. David here from Boston. Matt is also from the Boston area, and customers is coming over from London. So thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. All right, so obviously, cloud computing something we've been talking about many years. We've really found fascinating relationship. Cisco's had, with its customers a zealous through the partner ecosystem, had many good discussions about some of the announcements this week. Maybe start a little bit, you know, Cisco's software journey and positioning in the cloud space right now. >>So it's a really interesting dynamic when we started transitioning to multi cloud and we actually deal with Cloud and Compute coming together and we've had whether you're looking at three infrastructure ops organization or whether you're looking at the APS up operations or whether you're looking at, you know, your DEV environment, your security operations. Each organization has to deal with their angle, which they view, you know, multi cloud. Or they view how they actually operate within those the cloud computing context. And so whether you're on the infrastructure side, you're looking at compute. You're looking at storage. You're looking at resources. If you're on an app operator, you're looking at performance. You're looking at visibility assurance. If you are in the security operations you're looking at, maybe governance. You're looking at policy, and then when you're a developer, you really sort of thinking about see I CD. You're talking about agility, and there's very few organizations like Cisco that actually is looking at from a product perspective. All those various angles >>of multi cloud >> is definitely a lot of pieces. Maybe up level it for us a little bit. There's so many pieces way talk for so long. You know you don't talk to any company that doesn't have a cloud. Strategy doesn't mean that it's not going to change over time. And it means every company's got a known positioning. But talk about the relationship Cisco has with its customers and really the advisory condition that you want to have with >>its actually a very relevant question. To what? To what Matt is talking about, because Wei talked a lot about multi cloud as a trend and hybrid clouds and this kind of relationship between the traditional view of looking at computing data centers and then expanding to different clouds. You know, public cloud providers have now amazing platform capabilities. And if you think about it, the it goes back to what Matt said about I t ops and development kind of efforts. Why is this happening? Really, there's There's the study that we did with with an analyst, and there was an amazing a shocking stats around how within the next three years, organizations will have to support 50% more applications than they do now. And we have been trying to test this, that our events that made customer meetings etcetera, that is a lot of a lot of change for organizations. So if you think about why are they use, why do they need to basically let go and expand to those clouds? Is because they want to service. I T ops teams want to servers with capabilities, their developers faster, right? And this is where you have within the I T ops kind of theme organization. You have the security kind of frame through the compute frame, the networking where, you know Cisco has a traditional footprint. How do you blend all this? How do you bring all this together in a linear way to support individual unique application modernization efforts? I think that's what we're hearing from customers in terms of the feedback. And this is what influences our >>strategy to converts the different business units. And it's an area engineering effort, right? >>I want to poke at that a little bit. I mean, a couple years ago, I have to admit I was kind of a multi cloud skeptic. I always said that I thought it was more of a symptom that actually strategy a symptom of shadow I t and different workloads and so forth, but now kind of buying in because I think I t in particular has been brought in to clean up the crime scene. I often say so I think it is becoming a strategy. So if you could help us understand what you're hearing from customers in terms of their strategy towards multi cloud and how Cisco it was mapping into that, >>yeah, so So when we talk to customers, it comes back to the angle at which they're approaching the problem. And, like you said, that shadow I t. Has been probably around for longer than anybody want, cares to admit, because people want to move faster. Organizations want to get their product out to market sooner. And so what? What really is we're having conversations now about, you know, how do I get the visibility? How do I get you know, the policies in the governance so that I can actually understand either how much I'm spending in the cloud or whether I'm getting the actual performance that I'm looking for, that I need that connectivity. So I get the bandwidth, and so these are the kinds of conversations that we have with customers is going. I realized that this is going on now I actually have to Now put some governance and controls around. That is their products is their solutions, is there? You know, they're looking to Cisco to help them through this journey because it is a journey. Because as much as we talk about cloud and you know, companies that were born in the cloud cloud native there is a tremendous number of I see organizations that are just starting that journey that are just entering into this phase where they have to solve these problems. >>Yeah, I agree. And they're starting the journey with a deliberate strategy as opposed to Okay, we got this thing. But if you think about the competitive landscape, it's kind of interesting. And I want to try to understand where Cisco fits because again, you initially had companies that didn't know in a public cloud sort of pushing multi cloud. You say? Well, I guess they have to do that. But now you see, and those come out with Google, you see Microsoft leaning in way. Think eventually aws is gonna lead in. And then you say I'm kind of interested in working with some of these cloud agnostic not trying to force Now, now Cisco. A few years ago, you didn't really think about Cisco as a player. Now this goes right in the middle. I have said often that Cisco's in a great position John Furrier as well to connect businesses and from a source of networking strength, making a strong argument that we have the most cost effective, most secure, highest performance networks to connect clouds. That seems to be a pretty fundamental strength of yours. And does that essentially summarize your strategy? And And how does that map into the actions that you're taking in terms of products and services that you're bringing to market? >>I would say that I can I can I can take that. Yeah, for sure. It's chewy question for hours. So I was thinking about satellite you mentioned before. Like Okay, that's, you know, the world has turned around completely way seem to talk about Target satellite Is something bad happening? And now, suddenly we completely forgot about it, like let let free, free up the developers and let them do whatever they want. And basically that is what I think is happening out there in the market. So all of the solutions you mentioned in the go to market approaches and the architectures that the public cloud providers at least our offering out there. Certainly the Big Three have differences have their strengths on. And I think those things are closer to the developer environment. Basically, you know, if you're looking into something like AI ml, there's one provider that you go with. If you're looking for a mobile development framework, you're gonna go somewhere else. If you're looking for a D, are you gonna go somewhere else? Maybe not a big cloud, but your service provider. But you've been dealing with all this all this time, so you know that they have their accreditation that you're looking for. So where does Cisco come in? You know, we're not a public cloud provider way offer products as a service from our data centers and our partners data centers. But at the the way that the industry sees a cloud provider a public cloud like AWS Azure, Google, Oracle, IBM, etcetera, we're not that we don't do that. Our mission is to enable organizations with software hardware products SAS products to be able to facilitate their connectivity, security, visibility, observe ability, and in doing business and in leveraging the best benefits from those clubs. So way kind of way kind of moved to a point where we flip around the question, and the first question is, Who is your club provider? What? How many? Tell us the clouds you work with, and we can give you the modular pieces you can put we can put together for you. So these, so that you can make the best out of >>your club. Being able to do that across clouds in an environment that is consistent with policies that are consistent, that represent the edicts of your organization, no matter where your data lives, that's sort of the vision and the way >>this is translated into products into Cisco's products. You naturally think about Cisco as the connectivity provider networking. That's that's really sort of our, you know, go to in what we're also when we have a significant computing portfolio as well. So connectivity is not only the connectivity of the actual wire between geography is point A to point B. In the natural routing and switching world, there's connectivity between applications between compute and so this week. You know, the announcements were significant in that space when you talk about the compute and the cloud coming together on a single platform, that gives you not only the ability to look at your applications from an experience journey map so you can actually know where problems might occur in the application domain. You can actually, then go that next level down into the infrastructure level and you can say, Okay, maybe I'm running out of some sort of resource, whether it's compute resource, whether it's memory, whether it's on your private cloud that you have enabled on Prem, or whether it's in the public cloud, that you have that application residing and then, quite candidly, you have the actual hardware itself. So inter site. It has an ability to control that entire stack so you can have that visibility all the way down to the hardware layer. >>I'm glad you brought up some of the applications. I wonder if we could stay there for a moment. Talk about some of the changing patterns for customers. A lot of talk in the industry about cloud native often gets conflated with micro services, container ization and lots of the individual pieces there. But when one of Our favorite things have been talking about this week is software that really sits at the application layer and how that connects down through some of the infrastructure pieces. So help us understand what you're hearing from customers and how you're helping them through this transition to cost. You're saying, Absolutely, there's going to be lots of new applications, more applications and they still have the old stuff that they need to continue to manage because we know in I t nothing ever goes away. Yeah, >>that's that's definitely I was I was thinking, you know, there's there's a vacuum at the moment on and there's things that Cisco is doing from from a technology perspective to fill that gap between application. What you see when it comes to monitoring, making sure your services are observable. And how does that fit within the infrastructure stack, You know, everything upwards of the network layer. Basically, that is changing dramatically. Some of the things that matter touched upon with regards to, you know, being able to connect the networking, the security and the infrastructure of the compute infrastructure that the developers basically are deploying on top. So there's a lot of the desert out of things on continue ization. There's a lot of, in fact, it's one part of the off the shelf inter site of the stack that you mentioned and one of the big announcements. Uh huh. You know that there's a lot of discussion in the industry around. Okay, how does that abstract further the conversation on networking, for example? Because that now what we're seeing is that you have a huge monoliths enterprise applications that are being carved down into micro services. Okay, they know there's a big misunderstanding around what is cloud native? Is it related to containers? Different kind of things, right? But containers are naturally the infrastructure defacto currency for developers to deploy because of many, many benefits. But then what happens between the kubernetes layer, which seems to be the standard and the application? Who's going to be managing services talking to each other that are multiplying? You know, things like service mesh, network service mess? How is the never evolving to be able to create this immutable infrastructure for developers to deploy applications? So there's so many things happening at the same time where Cisco has actually a lot of taking a lot of the front seat. Leading that conversation >>is where it gets really interesting. Sort of hard to squint through because you mentioned kubernetes is the de facto standard, but it's a defacto standard that's open everybody's playing with. But historically, this industry has been defined by a leader comes out with a de facto standard kubernetes, not a company. It's an open standard, so but there's so many other components than containers. And so history would suggest that there's going to be another defacto standard or multiple standards that emerge. And your point earlier. You got to have the full stack. You can't just do networking. You can't just do certain if you so you guys are attacking that whole pie. So how do you think this thing will evolve? I mean, you guys obviously intend to put out a stat cast a wide net as possible, captured not only your existing install basement attract, attract others on you're going aggressively at it as a czar. Others How do you see it shaking out? You see you know, four or five pockets, you see one leader emerging. I mean, customers would love all you guys to get together and come up with standards. That's not going to happen. So where it's jump ball right now? >>Well, yeah. You think about, you know, to your point regarding kubernetes is not a company, right? It is. It is a community driven. I mean, it was open source by a large company, but it's community driven now, and that's the pace at which open source is sort of evolving. There is so much coming at I t organizations from a new paradigm, a new software, something that's, you know, the new the shiny object that sort of everybody sort of has to jump onto and sort of say, that is the way we're gonna function. So I t organizations have to struggle with this influx of just every coming at them and every angle. And I think what starting toe happen is the management and the you know that Stack who controls that or who is helping i t organizations to manage it for them. So really, what we're trying to say is there's elements that have to put together that have to function, and kubernetes is just one example Docker, the operating system that associated with it that runs all that stuff then you have the application that goes right sides on top of it. So now what we have to have is things like what we just announced this week. Hx AP the application platform for a check so you have the Compute cluster, but then you have the stack on top of that that's managed by an organization that's looking at the security that's looking at the the actual making opinions about what should go in the stack and managing that for you. So you don't have to deal with that because you just focus on the application development. Yeah, >>I mean, Cisco's in a strong position to do. There's no question about it. To me, it comes down to execution. If you guys execute and deliver on the products and services that you say, you know, you announced, for instance, this weekend previously, and you continue on a road map, you're gonna get a fair share of this market place. I think there's no question >>so last topic before we let you go is love your viewpoint on customers. What's separating kind of leaders from you know, the followers in this space, you know, there's so much data out there. And I'm a big fan of the State of Dev Ops report Help separate, You know, some not be not. Here's the technology or the piece, but the organizational and, you know, dynamics that you should do. So it sounds like you like that report also, love. What do you hear from customers? How do you help guide them towards becoming leaders in the cloud space? >>Yeah, The State of Dev Ops report was fascinating. I mean, they've been doing that for a number of years now. Yeah, exactly. And really what? It's sort of highlighting is two main factors that I think that are in this revolution or the third paradigm shift. Our journey we're going through, there's the technology side for sure, and so that's getting more complex. You have micro services, you have application explosion. You have a lot of things that are occurring just in technology that you're trying to keep up. But then it's really about the human aspect of human elements, the people about it. And that's really I think, what separates you know, the elites that are really sort of, you know, just charging forward and ahead because they've been able to sort of break down the silos because really, what you're talking about in cloud Native Dev Ops is how you take the journey of the experience of the service from end end from the development all the way to production. And how do you actually sort of not have organizations that look at their domain their data, set their operations and then have to translate that or have to sort of you have another conversation with another organization that that doesn't look at that, That has no experience of that? So that is what we're talking about, that end and view. >>And in addition to all the things we've been talking about, I think security's a linchpin here. You guys are executing on security. You got a big portfolio and you've seen a lot of M and A and a lot of companies trying to get in, and it's gonna be interesting to see how that plays out. But that's going to be a key because organizations are going to start there from a strategy standpoint, and they build out >>Yeah, absolutely. If you follow Dev ops methodologies, security gets baked in along the way so that you're not having to 100% gone after anything, just give you the final word. >>I was just a follow up with You. Got some other model was saying, There's so many, there's what's happening out there Is this democracy around? Standards with is driven by communities and way love that in fact, Cisco is involved in many open sores community projects. But you asked about customers and just right before you were asking about you know who is gonna be the winner. There's so many use cases. >>Uh huh. >>There's so much depth in Tim's off. You know what customers want to do with on top of kubernetes, you know, take Ai Ml, for example, something that we have way have some, some some offering services on there's cast. A mother wants to ai ml their their container stuck. Their infrastructure will be so much different to someone else, is doing something just hosting. And there's always going to be a SAS provider that is niche servicing some oil and gas company, you know, which means that the company of that industry will go and follow that instead of just going to a public cloud provider that is more agnostic. Does that make sense? Yeah. >>Yeah. There's relationships that exist that are just gonna get blown away. That add value today. And they're not going to just throw him out. Exactly. >>Well, thank you so much for helping us understand the updates where your customers are driving super exciting space. Look forward to keeping an eye on it. Thanks so much. Alright, there's still lots more coming here from Cisco Live 2020 in Barcelona. People are standing watching all the developer events, lots going on the floor and we still have more. So thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah.

>> fly from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Google Cloud next nineteen Tio by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Run. Welcome to the Cube here, live in San Francisco on Mosconi South were on the floor at Google. Next twenty nineteen. Hashtag Google Next nineteen. I'm John for my co host this week for three days and wall to wall coverage of Google's cloud conference is with Dave. Alonso Has too many men. Guys day one of three days of wall to wall coverage. We got Thomas Curry in the new CEO on the job for ten weeks. Took the realm from Diane Green. Thirty five thousand attendees. It's packed. It's definitely a developer crowd. It feels a lot like a WS, not a corporate show like Microsoft or IBM or others or Oracle. It's really more about developers. We just heard the Kino. Google's making some moves. The new CEO is gonna put on a show. He saw two customers you see in the positioning. Soon DARPA Kai, the CEO of Google, came out really kind of. Ah, interesting keynote Feels like Thomas's that's gonna shake that Oracle off, but he's guns blaring. Some new announcements. Guys, let's do a round upon the keynote. >> Yeah. So, John, as you said, a great energy here that this place is bustling sitting here where we are, we could see everybody is going through the Expo Hall. As you said. Is Google serious about this? This whole cloud activity? Absolutely. There's no better way than to have your CEO up. There we go, The Amazon show. You don't see Jeff Bezos there into the Microsoft shows? You know, you don't usually see you know their CEO. There you have the Cloud Group does the cloud thing, but absolutely. Cloud is a critical piece of what Google is doing. And it's interesting because I actually didn't feel as geeky and his developer focused as I would expect to see at a Google show. Maybe they've heard that feedback for years that, you know, Google makes great stuff, but they're too smart in there, too geeky When you go to the Amazon show, they're announcing all of the different, you know, puting storage pieces and everybody's hooting and hollering. Here it was a little bit more business. It was high level. They had all these partners out on stage and customers out on stage. Many of them, you know, you talk about retail and health care and all these other ones where you say, Okay, Amazons, a major competitor there. So, you know, can Google stake their claim as to how they're going to move up from the number three position and gain more market share? You know, as they fit into the multi cloud, which we know we're going to spend a lot of time on, wears their position in this cloud space today. >> What your thoughts. >> Well, first of all, there's a big show. I mean, it's we're here at IBM thick in February. This feels like a much, much larger event, Number one Stew said. It's really much more developer heavy, I think. John, there's no question people don't question Googles Global Cloud Presence. Soon Dar talked about two hundred countries, ninety cloud regions fifty eight plus two new data centers. So no question there. But there are questions as to whether or not Google could move beyond search and maps and Gmail and really be a big cloud player for Enterprise Cloud that really is to the elephant in the room. Can Google innovate and attractive CEOs? They showed a number of customers, not nearly, of course, as many as what Amazon or even Microsoft would show. They're talking about ecosystem. To me, that ecosystem slide. It's got a cord truthful this year to really show some progress. But you've got new leadership as we talked about last year, John and love to get your thoughts on this. Google's playing the long game. They've got the best tech and you know they've got great data. Great. Aye, aye. I want to take >> into the new rebranding of the Google Cloud platform, which is now called Antos, which is a Greek word for flour. We kind of had visibility into This would kind of start coming. But before we get into that, I want to just kind of point out something that we've reported on looking angle, some that we've been saying on Twitter on DH about Diane Greene. It's been reported that she was fired from Google for missing on red hat. All these rumors, but interesting Thomas Koreans first words, a CEO on stage. It was a direct shout out to Diane Greene. I think this validates our reporting and our analysis that Diane Green absolutely helped hire curry and work with the boy workers Sundar And essentially, because she was the architect of rebuilding Google Clouds Enterprise chops the team there that she recruited we've been following and covering. Diane Green built that foundation. She passed the torch. Thomas Curry. This was not a Diane Green firing, so I think I think Thomas Carrion nice gesture on Diane Green kind of sets the table and validates and preserves her legacy as the rebuilder re architect of Google Cloud. >> Pretty interesting. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think this where there's some smoke, there's fire that don't think Diana Corning court fired. I think you know that she was under a lot of pressure. She was here for seven years. I think they probably felt like Okay, now it's time to really bring somebody in. Who wants to take this to the next level? And I'll die unnecessarily had the stomach for that >> John Really great points there. But it does talk about you know what is the culture of Google? You know, the elephant The room is what is Google? Google makes you know most of their money on advertising. That's not what Google Cloud is. It doesn't fit into the additional model. You know, Google's culture is not geared for the enterprise. As you know that the critique on Google for years has been We make really great stuff and you need to be Google E. And you need to do things the way we do Thomas Koreans out there. We need to meet customers where they are today. That's very much what we hear in the Enterprise. That that's what you hear. You know when you talk about Amazon or Microsoft, they're listening to their customers. They're meeting them at their business applications there, helping them build new environment. So, you know, will Google be a little less googly on DH? Therefore, you know, meet customers and help work them, and that leads to the multi clouding the anthros discussed. >> We heard a lot about that today. I mean, John, you've pointed out many, many times that Cooper Netease is the linchpin to Google strategy. It's really you know, that was the kind of like a Hail Mary relative Tae Ws and that's what we heard today. Multi cloud, multi cloud, multi cloud, where is with a W s. And certainly to a lesser extent, Oracle. It's Unit Cloud Multi Cloud is more expensive is what they tell us. Multi cloud is less secure. A multi cloud is more complex. Google's messaging is exactly the opposite of >> that. So, Dave, just to poke it that a little bit, is great to see Sanjay *** Inn up on stage with VM wear. But where we last cvm were to cloud show. It's an Amazon. They've got a deep partnership here. Cooper Netease is not a differentiator for Google. Everybody's doing it. Even Amazon is being, you know, forced to be involved in it. Cisco was up on stage. This guy's got a deep partnership with Amazon and a ks. So you know, Cooper Netease is not a magic layers. Good job, Ada said on the Cube. Q. Khan. It is something that you know Google, that management layer and how I live in a multi cloud environment. Yes, Google might be further along with multi cloud messaging, then say Amazon is, But you know, Amazons, the leader in this space and everybody that has multiple clouds, Amazons, one of them, even the keynote >> This morning aboard Air Force right eight, I was forced into Cooper days you're not CNW s run demos that show, you know, a target of the Google clouded the Microsoft. You saw that today from Google >> while we see how the Amazon demos with our oracle. But that's the result. Let's let's hold off on the partisan saying, Let's go through the Kino So the Diane Green comment also AOL came out. Who runs VP of Engineer. He's the architect. One. This Antos product. Last year, they announced on G. C. P s basically a hybrid solution G a general availability of Antos, which has security built in out of the box. Multi cloud security integrated for continues integration, confused development, CCD pipeline ing very key news and that was really interesting. This is such a their new platform that they've rebranded called Antos. This is a way for them to essentially start posturing from just hybrid to multi cloud. This is the shift of of Google. They want to be the on premise cloud solution and on any cloud, your thoughts. >> You know, the demo said it all. The ability to take V m movement two containers and move them anywhere right once and move anywhere and that, I think, is is the key differentiator right now. Relative to certainly eight of us. Lesser extent Microsoft, IBM right there with red hat. That's to me The interesting angle >> Here. Look, Google has a strong history with Ken Containers. If you if you scroll back to the early days of doctor twenty fourteen, twenty, fifty, Google's out there as to how many you know, it just so many containers that they're building up and tearing down. However you go to the Microsoft. So you go to the Amazon show. We're starting to talk a lot more about server list. We're gonna have the product lead for surveillance on today. I'm excited to dig into that because on a little bit concerned that Google is so deep in the containers and how you Burnett eases, they're looking for, like a native to connect the pieces, but that they are a little bit behind in some of the next generation architectures built on journalists for death. >> I want to make a point here if you're not the leader in cloud which, you know in Enterprise Cloud, which Google is not, you know, IBM is not or, you know, Oracle is not okay, fine, but if you don't have a cloud like Cisco or Dell or VM, where you have to go after multi cloud. Amazon's not in a rush to go after multi cloud. There's no reason down the road. Amazon can't go after that opportunity. To the extent that it's a real tam, it's There's a long way to go. Talk about early innings were like having started the game of Outpost >> hasn't even been spect out. Yes, sir, there has not been relieved. So we're seeing what Amazon's got knowing they are the clouds. So they're the incumbent. Interesting enough on Jennifer Lin. You mention the demo. Jennifer Lin Cube alumni. We gonna interview her later. She introduced on those migrate Kind of reminds me of some of the best shows we have the migration tools and that migrates work clothes from PM wears into containers running in containers. As you mentioned. A. This is an end and no modified co changes. That's a big deal, >> John. Exactly on Twitter, people are going. Is this the next emotion? You know, those of us who've been in the industry while remember how powerful that was able to seamlessly migrate? You know, the EMS and containers at, You know, I shouldn't have to think about Colin building it where it lives. That was the promise of has for all those years and absolutely things like uber Netease what Google's doing, chipping away at that. They're partnering with Cisco, there partner with pivotal parting with lots of companies so that that portability of code isa lot of >> Master Jack is a cloud of emotion. I mean, we know what the motion did in the Enterprise. >> To me, that's the star. The keynote is actually the rebranding associate positioning thing. But the star of the show is the Jennifer Lin demo, because if anthems migrate actually works, that's going to tell. Sign to me on how fast Google can take territory now. What's interesting also with the announcements, was, I want to get you guys thoughts on this because we cover ecosystems, we cover how Cloud and Enterprise have been pardoning over the years. Enterprise is not that easy. Google has found out the hard way Microsoft is done really well. They've installed base. Google had stand this up from the beginning again. Diane Greene did a great job, but now it's hard. It's a hard nut to crack. So you see Cisco on stage. Cisco has huge enterprise. Cloud the em Where comes on stage? David Gettler Gettler, the VP of engineering of Cisco, one of their top executives on stage. And he has Sanjay *** and keep alumni came on. Sanjay had more time. Francisco. So you have two companies who kind of compete? NSX. We have suffered a fine Cisco both on stage. Cisco, absolutely integrating into We covered on silicon angle dot com just posted it live where Cisco is actually laying down their container platform and integrating directly into Google's container platform to offer a program ability End to end. I think that's something that didn't get teased out on the keynotes doing, because this allows for Google to quickly move into the enterprise and offer true program ability of infrastructure. This is the nirvana of infrastructure is code. This is what Dev Ops has been waiting for. Still your thoughts on this because this could be a game changer. Hydro, what's an A C I. This could put pressure on VM, where with the containers running in platform and the Cisco relationship your thoughts. >> So John Cisco has a broad portfolio. When you talk about multi cloud, it's not just the networking components, it's the eyes, absolutely apiece. But that multi cloud management, uh, is a layer that Cisco has, you know, been adding two and working on for a lot of years, and they've got very key partnerships. So making sure, you know, seeing right seeing David vehicular onstage here. Proof, Cisco, lot of enterprise customers him where, Of course, six hundred thousand customers. They're So Google wants to get into these accounts. You look at, you know, Microsoft strength of their enterprise agreements that they have. So how will Google get into some of these big accounts? Get into the procurement, get into the environment? And there's lots of different methods and partnerships We said our credit >> David vehicular undersold the opportunity here. I mean, when it comes to he did at working Inter Cloud. Sisko is in the poll possession position to basically say we got the best network, the highest performance networks, the most secure networks, and we're in a position to connect all these clouds. And to me, that didn't come out today. So when you think about multi cloud, each of these companies is coming at it from a position of strength. Cisco. Very clearly dominant networking VM wear in virtual ization and I think that came through. And Sanjay *** ins, you know, keynote. I think again Gettler undersold it, but it's a great opportunity for Cisco and Google. >> Well, I think Google has a huge opportunity. It Cisco because if they have a go to market joint sales together, that could really catapult Google sails again. If I get really was kind of copy, we're we're Cisco. But Cisco look, a bm was on stage with them. I thought that was going to be a Hail Mary for for Sisko to kind of have bring that back. But then watching Sanjay Putin come on saying, Hey, we're okay, it's going to be a V m World And Pat Kelsey has been on the record saying, Coo Burnett eases the dial tone of the Internet stew. This is an interesting matchup between Cisco and BM, where your thoughts >> Yeah, so so right. There's so many pieces here, a cz to where their play way. No, there's competitive competition and, you know, partnerships. In a lot of these environments, Google actually has a long history of partnering. You know, I can't even think how many years ago, the Google and GM or Partnership and Cisco. If I can't actually, Dave, there's There's something I know you've got a strong viewpoint on. You know, Thomas Kurian left Oracle and it was before he had this job. Every he says, you know, is T. K going to come in here and bring, you know, oracles, you know, sales methodology into Google. You know, What does he bring? What's his skill set on? You know >> what exact community? I think it's the opposite, right? I think that's why you left Oracle because he didn't want every database to run in the Oracle, Cloudy realised is a huge opportunity out there. I think the messaging that I heard today is again it's completely I saw something on Twitter like, Oh, this is just like organ. It's nothing like Oracle. It's the It's the polar opposite opposite of what Oracle is doing. >> I think I think curry and can really define his career. This could be a nice swan song for him. As he takes Google with Diane Greene did builds it out, does the right deals if he can build on ecosystem and bring the tech chops in with a clear go to market. He's not going to hire the salespeople and the SCS fast enough. In my opinion, that's gonna be a really slow boat. Teo promised land. He's got to do some deals. He's gotta put Some Corp Devin Place has gotta make some acquisitions will be very in the sin. DARPA Kai, the CEO, said. We are investing heavily in cloud. If I'm Amazon, I'm worried about Google. I think they are dark horse. They have a lot of they have a clean sheet of paper. Microsoft, although has legacy install base. Google's got, I think, a lot more powder, if you will. Dave, >> what One little sign? I agree without John, I think you're absolutely right. The clean sheet of paper and deep pockets, you know, and the long game in the great tech. Uh, you have a son should be worried about Google. One little side note, it's still you. And I talked about this. Did you hear? Uh uh, Thomas asked Sanjay Putin about Dell, Dell Technologies, and Sunday is an executive. Dell was talking about the whole Del Technologies portfolio. I thought it was a very interesting nuance that we had previously seen from VM wear when they were owned by himself. >> Dave, you know, we see Delon Veum where are almost the same company these days that they're working together? But John, as you said, I actually like that. You know, we didn't have some big announcement today on an acquisition. Thomas Kurian says. He's got a big pocket book. He's going to be inquisitive, and it'LL be interesting to see, do they? By some company that has a big enterprise sales force. It can't just be old legacy sales trying to go into the cloud market. That won't work, but absolutely the lot of opportunities for them to go out. They didn't get get, huh? They didn't get red hat. So who will? Google Page? You >> guys are right on man. Sales Force is still a big question mark, And how can they hire that fast? That's a >> And again, he's only been on the job for ten weeks. I think is going to get his sea legs. I think it's him. He's going to come in. He's gonna ingratiating with culture. It'Ll be a quick decision. I think Google culture will accept or reject Thomas Curry and based upon his first year in operations, he's going to get into the team, and I think the Wall Street Journal kind of comment on that. Will he bring that Oracle? I thought that was kind of not a fair assessment, but I think he's got the engineering chops toe hang with Google. He kind of gets the enterprise mark one hundred percent been there, done that. So I think he's got a good shot. I think you could make the right moves. Of course we're here making the moves on the Cube here live for day, one of three days of wall to wall coverage. I'm sorry, David. Lock These two minute men here in Google, next in Mosconi in San Francisco Live will be back with more coverage after this short break.

>> Live from San Francisco it's the Cube, covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Moscone North. You're watching the Cube's live coverage of IBM Think 2019. This is day three of four days of coverage. I'm Stu Miniman, my cohost is Dave Velante. We've been talking so much about multi Cloud this week that a pineapple express has hit San Francisco, heavy winds and rains but we're safe and dry inside. They're handing out ponchos and making sure that everybody can still at all the information that they have. Happy to welcome back to the program Bala Rajaraman, who's an IBM fellow and vice president with the IBM Cloud Group. Bala, thanks so much for joining us. >> Very nice to meet you. Very nice to meet you guys and thank you again. Very good to see you guys. So, it's always, and I mean this, an honor to be able to talk to the IBM Fellows. I've had the pleasure of working with a number of IBM Fellows, and, of course, we've had many of them on the Cube. It is not just an honorific. It means you've done the work, you've been with IBM for more years than we'll mention on camera. >> (chuckles loudly) >> I did protect you there. But, Bala, we had you on the program a year ago, I think. Give us the update as to what you've been working on and, as we're speaking right now, the IBM research, the key note is going on and I love the connection between what happens at IBM in some of the, you know the pure research, what happens at universities and that funnel of innovation that happens through the company. >> Oh, that's a great question. I'm glad to be back here and it's been a fairly eventful year as you guys know. I worked on our public cloud, we worked with a lot of clients, and we looked at kind of the dynamics of the market, and what is the transition to take advantage of Cloud technologies and there was certain, not just barriers, but certain opportunities in terms of looking at things like private cloud, and you guys have done some really good work on some of the research there. So, private Clouds became a point of focus for me and over the last year, working with a lot of clients the notion of hybrid became really important. And hybrid is not just a Cloud structure it is how you actually build applications on top of it. So, when you look at some of the announcements around things like Watson everywhere it is not driven by just having Watson in different places but the use cases it addresses. So, things like manufacturing where you're bringing more intelligence to the edge, to the manufacturing floor, but you take advantage of big data analytics on the Cloud. How does that work together? How do you address a lot of the technical movements of data, etc. And so that was really the great opportunity and insights that we saw and that drove our multi Cloud and public Cloud strategy. >> You bring up a really good point. I mean, the application is, you know, it's the reason why infrastructure existed, is to run the application and the data's important and I think back 10 years ago, it was like, well, am I going to burst applications? Are they going to stretch between them? And the dialogue has changed quite a bit. It's now with micro services architectures. It's not that my application's spread, it's that pieces of applications could live different places. They can live in a multi Cloud, I sometimes might be splitting it up into geography or time. So, IBM has strong ties, it has lots of applications that deliver, and working in all of these developer micro services environment. Tell us where the work's happening and what you're hearing from users? >> You know, it's a really good question. So, I think we really see three movements here. We accept the fact and the market has validated it in terms of hybrid Cloud, which is, you got pieces running on Prime, you have pieces running on the Edge, you got pieces running on one or more Cloud providers. So the hybrid multi Cloud landscape is really a preferred architecture. But that architecture also brings complexity, and the three dimensions of complexity that I see are one, around programming models and integration. How do all of these components integrate together from a programming perspective? Because you choosing different Clouds for different reasons and how do those capabilities integrate together? The second element is data. You got data moving to different Clouds, you got compute moving to data. How does data governance, how does data integration work? And Rob Thomas talked a lot about some of our different shaders there. The third element is managing the environment from a security perspective, from a compliance perspective, from a configurational consistency perspective, from an upgrade perspective, from an availability and monitoring per... These three dimensions and the amount of work we're doing in that context, not just in terms of the existing portfolio around integration, but when you look at the complexity of micro services, a number of entities, you really start bringing in elements of AI into the discussion. So, how do you enable operations with AI? How do you enable data placement, categorization, governance with AI? So, it is, even thought it might seem like different technologies, I think bringing them together just to solve this problem is perhaps one of the most exciting things that we can provide to the market. >> So, Bala, when it was becoming clear that public Cloud was going to be a force, way back when, people with large estates on Prime started talking about Hybrid, we use that term now, maybe they didn't use it then, but the notion, as Stu was describing, that you'd have some parts of the workload in public, some parts in private, maybe there's bursting. This was long before Edge and the ascendancy of micro services and Docker and Core OS and the like, and then it became pretty obvious to a lot of users, wow, this is really complicated and the use cases just don't warrant the business case. So, these things have changed. We've seen the ascendancy of these other services. You just laid out three complexities, the programming models, the data movement, which is huge, and then, how do you manage all that? So, how are the use cases evolving? Is the business case more compelling now, today, than it was, say 10, 12 years ago? >> Yes, and I think that's a really, really good question because it takes the problem to the next level. The need for Hybrid always existed. It was impractical to look at very, very large complex workloads, transactional needs, to say that there is a one solution fits it all, I can move it somewhere. I think expanding and taking advantage of different Cloud capabilities is much more of a realistic scenario and a more pragmatic, cost effective, and it meets many of the business cases. >> And that's how we got to the 20 percent though-- >> Exactly. >> Which (mumbles) would call a chapter one. >> Yep. So, now we have chapter two. Now, why is chapter two realistic? Your question was very apropos, meaning that there's complexity, and when you open up the aperture to more choices the complexity expands exponentially. What has been really central to it, has been the notion of what degree of consistency can I get across all of these elements? And open source, the emergence of things like containers and Kubernetes, not just from a run time perspective, but from a manageability and orchestration perspective, and giving you a foundation against which the consistency that it can take advantage of, is been the fundamental revolution over the last two years, which has made that intractable problem that we had with multiple choices and the complexity therein to become much more feasible. And so, if you look at our strategy underpinning those three dimensions of programming models and integration, data and management, which are not complexities but realistic needs for enterprises to take things into production. The notion of an underlying open, multi Cloud hybrid platform based on technologies like containers and Kubernetes and orchestrating across that is the fundamental transformation that has happened. And that is the exciting part. If it's open you create an ecosystem, you really address enterprise concerns from how do I build stuff in a consistent way and leverage skills in the market to all the way, how can I manage it to production goals and security goals. I think we are on the cusp of something that can really transform the way enterprises build applications, and that's what Jenny was mentioning when she said that we are very well positioned to take advantage of the Hybrid transformation and the markets behind it. That is the technical underpinnings of why we think we can do it. >> I'm glad you brought up ecosystem because it's vitally important and you've got a few larger companies, I mean wouldn't it be nice if we just say, "Oh, I'll just use one cloud?" well, that's not going to happen. That's not practical. You'd love it to be IBM's cloud, Amazon would love it to be their cloud. It's just not going to happen. So, you have this complexity. Ecosystem is critical. You've only got a few companies that really have the resources to deliver what you described and to attract the ecosystem. So, specifically, can you talk about the ecosystem and how that's evolving, from IBM's perspective? >> So, we're just peeling the onion, and I think we're going through a good progression. When you look at development of an ecosystem, the ability to provide choice to an enterprise, and the foundations on which the ecosystem is built is very critical. Now, if you look at the history of ecosystems it's been built on certain standard programming models, a certain APIs, so, Arvind keeps talking about things like TCPIP was the foundation of why the internet became a platform. So, in a similar vein, when you look at things like Kubernetes, the open standards around it, the ability through all of these orchestration and run time capabilities to create a variety of choice, and the set of choices work together and can be managed together. That is going to create an immense ecos... We are already seeing pieces of it, right? I mean, Kubernetes is becoming a model in which many providers are providing the same component across different clouds. You see the the adaption of Kubernetes across different clouds. So, rather than looking at an individual part of the ecosystem, it is how can we create a broad ecosystem based on open standards, open capabilities, interoperable standards, whether they are formal standards or they are de facto standards. That is what is exciting about this environment. >> And you're essentially saying that Kubernetes is sort of that analog to old reliable TCPIP here, or is that-- >> Yes, to a certain extent. I mean, I think if I combine TCPIP, HTTP, DNS, how things work together, how things can be managed together, you're moving up to the next level of coherent standards across every provider. And that set of standards, the things that made the internet work, Kubernetes makes applications work. So, networks work together, now applications work together and data works together, which is really nice. >> That a rat hole, Stu, but those are largely government funded standards, which, after a while, dried up because people said, "Okay, hey, we're there," and now you got open source as the sort of new-- >> Open source is the engine for innovation, and I think it's a circuitous way to get to that pithy phrase that says, "Open source is the engine of innovation." but that is really the progressive logic that gets you to the fact that it's important. So, Bala, if we have a solid foundational layer one of the things, if I think back in my career 10 years or even 20 years, things like automation and intelligence in my environment, we've been talking about it for a long time. Can you explain why now, 2019 is different and how some of these are actually coming to reality more than some of the efforts we've done in the past? >> That's a great point because there are two interesting trends that are happening. One of them is, the ability to build intelligent systems at scale is being enabled by the cloud. You have the emergence of standard platforms. Now it becomes an application game, which is how can I leverage the scale, the availability and the models of innovation to solve really tricky problems? Whether it is supply chains that are globally distributed or enterprises that need survivability in different ways, all the way from the Clouds to the Edge, what other new architecture is possible? But this distribution's also caused complexity, and when you have complexity you have to bring some of these new technologies into play, like AI and so on and so forth, and so, the combination of these three events, Cloud, the emergence of open standards that span multiple Clouds, and the complexity it creates, but the answer's that complexity that also have emerged, to me, is a very critical point for innovation. I think the landscape is going to look completely different going forward. >> And I don't think you had the business case for automation, right? Do you remember people were afraid of automation. It's like, "Well, why should we really do this? "We can handle this manually," but today, with digital transformation, data, machine intelligence and the Cloud you can actually make a significant business case to transform your business and drive competitive advantage that you couldn't make 20 years ago. >> You have no choice but to look at automation-- >> I think that. >> Because the scale and that everything's there. >> And go back to the notion of micro services. You're taking something that you could fence and you could apply certain prescriptive measures to keep it under control, now you have micro services, you have SAS systems, you have data that is being dispersed, you have computing that's being dispersed. The only way to take advantage of that agility is to create a different level of being able to understand the systems, secure the systems, and that is going to be driven by new technologies, completely new technologies. >> Alright, so, Bala, you mentioned one of my favorite words, innovation, so what are you seeing in the cloud, both from IBM, from your customers, from your partners, where is that incubation for some of those next trends, you and I, if we were prepped from this, thinking about Bell Lev back in the day or the space race, where do we get those ancillary innovations that help transform industries? How will Cloud impact that? >> I think there's two interesting questions there. One is how will cloud impact innovation, but more importantly, how will innovation impact cloud? Right, and both of these directions are important. So, Cloud really gives you the ability to Cloud, and, again I look at Cloud as, kind of in quotes "Cloud" because it includes a variety of easy access to resources, the open source innovation, the ecosystem that gets built, all of them are drivers of innovation. And it gives a way to easily exploit that innovation. I see that as the fundamental value of Cloud. Now, the interesting part is there's a bunch of other innovations, whether you look at the Debater from Watson, or you look at quantum technologies, you look at some of the Watson capabilities around conversation. How do those start transforming existing processes? So, when you look at, for example, to me one of the exciting things about Debater is when you can process incredible amounts of information, not only to provide insight but to provide rational insights and rationalizable insights. It is a tremendous innovation. Can that be applied to topics like why is my network having a problem? And can you actually debate with a system to isolate the problem? The amount of possibilities, when you look at those, how they transform, how you run your Clouds, how you run applications in the Cloud, how you work across the ecosystem, I think there's a tremendous amount of potential. And I think obviously, with things like quantum solving a different class of problems, making it easily accessible, solving different kinds of security issues, the potential is... The accessibility to innovation, with the innovation, and how it impacts the foundation that delivers that innovation. I think there's a great marriage right there. >> Bala, I want to give you the final word, lots going on here at IBM, we'd seen a year ago, we were five or six different shows pulled together, we're here at the renovated Moscone Center, thousands of people walking around, going to so many different sessions, diversity. Give us a key take away that you want people to have when they walk away from IBM Think 2019. >> So, to me, the two key take aways are one, your observation that everything is coming together is really symptomatic of the change in IBM. We are bringing things together to address complexity, make complexity simple for our clients, to bring innovation to our clients. So that's number one. And that has to be done in an open, in an ecosystem across, not just providers, but across a whole, not only a partnership but a resource ecosystem, a open source ecosystem, and the drivers of innovation that we are participating in and how we are going to influence that is something that I look forward to as well. So that's the combination. >> And it's got to be done through code. I mean, it can't just be services and I know IBM knows this, right? >> Oh, yes. >> It's built this company, this recent chapter on top of services, but that's a huge opportunity for IBM, to take its deep industry expertise, codify it through software and code, and deliver on that vision. This is an enormous opportunity. >> Exactly, and the opportunities for code are great because now it's really transforming what new code, what is the potential of code in this ecosystem. >> Well, Bala, really appreciate you coming back, sharing your body of effort that's happening to help pull together and help simplify this multi hybrid Cloud environment. >> Great, thank you very much, guys. >> Great to have you again. >> Thanks. Alright, and we're here for another two days helping to break down all the complexities, go through the nuances, speak to the thought leaders, the customers, the partners. Dave Velante is my cohost for this segment. John Furrier's here, Lisa Martin's here and I'm Stu Miniman, and as always thank you for watching the Cube. (music)

>> Announcer: Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's theCUBE, covering OpenStack North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. I'm Stu Miniman with my cohost for the week, John Troyer. Happy to welcome to the program first-time guest Ildiko Vancsa, coming off the edge keynote presentation this morning. She is the ecosystem technical lead with the Edge Computing Group as part of the OpenStack Foundation. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Coming into this show, edge is one of those things that it was actually pretty exciting to talk about because edge is not only super hot, but when I thought back to previous shows, this is the sixth year we've had theCUBE here and my fifth year doing it, it's like, wait, I've been talking to all the Telcos for years here. NFV was one of those use cases, and when you connect the dots, it's like oh, edge, of course. I said this conference is actually hipster when it comes to edge. We were totally covering it well before we called it that. So, explain to us your role in the foundation and what led to the formation of this track. >> Yeah, so I'm the ecosystem technical lead within the foundation, which is basically a role that belongs under the business development team. So, I'm basically building connections with our ecosystem members. I'm trying to help them succeed with OpenStack, both as software package and as a community. We are embracing open source, of course, so I'm also trying to advocate for involvement in open source because I think that's a key. Like, you know, picking up an open source software component and use it, that's a great start, but if you really want to be successful with it and you want to be able to successfully build it into your business model, then getting involved in the community, both enhancing the software and maintaining of the software, that's really key. So, my role is also onboarding companies as well to be active members of the community, and my focus is shifting toward edge computing. The history of edge computing in OpenStack basically started last May when Beth Cohen from Verizon described their use case, which is OpenStack in a tiny box in production cycle, wow. So that was also a little bit of an eye-opener for us as well, that yes, it's telecom. It's 5G, but this is the thing that's called edge, and maybe this is something that we should also look deeper into. So, we went to San Francisco last September, OpenDev, 200 people, architects, software developers trying to figure out what edge computing is. I think we had the question at every single session, someone asked that, okay, yeah so, what did you mean exactly when you said edge? Because from the nature of the architecture, like, you have the central cloud and then the sides on the different-- >> John: There are several edges depending on how far you want to go. >> Exactly. >> For you and OpenStack, what does edge mean, or all the above? >> With OpenStack, so after OpenDev when we realized that it's not really a well-defined term, we wrote up a white paper. It's at OpenStack the role/edge. It's a short one, really to just set the ground for what edge computing is. And what we came up with is, so don't imagine like a two-sentence definition for edge computing because I still strongly believe that doesn't exist, and anyone who claims it, that's not true. What we did with the white paper is basically we set characteristics and criteria that defines cloud edge computing per se, like what people are talking about when you're moving out the compute and then working closer to the edge. Like what that means from the bandwidth perspective, from how you will manage it, what that means for security, and all these sort of things. And you can basically characterize what edge means. So we rather described these layers and how far we go, and as far as like, you know, the very end edge device and like the IOT sensors, that's not a target of OpenStack. So, OpenStack itself is infrastructure as a service, so our Edge Computing Group is still staying on that layer. The Edge Computing Group itself is focusing on the angles, what edge brings onto the table, all these requirements, you know, collecting the use cases and trying to figure out what's missing, what we need to implement. >> If can repeat and maybe I'll get it right or wrong. The idea is at a cell tower or at a remote office or branch office or some closet somewhere, there is a full set of OpenStack running, maybe a minimal set of OpenStack, but it's live, it's updatable. You can update services on it. You can update the actual OpenStack itself, and it doesn't need the spoke hardware necessarily, but it's now updatable and part of a bigger multi-cloud infrastructure from some sort of service entity or enterprise. >> Yeah. >> Is that fair? >> I think that's fair. So, there's OpenStack itself that people know very well, a lot of projects. So when we talk about edge, obviously we don't want to say that, okay, pick the whole thing and install all the 60 projects because that's really not suitable for edge. So what, for example, the group is looking into, that which OpenStack components are essential for edge. And also the group is defining small edge, medium edge, what that means from hardware footprint perspectives, so just to figure out what the opportunities are there, what will fit, what will not fit. OpenStack itself is very modular by today, so you can pick up the services that you need. So what we discussed, for example, this week is Keystone, identity, you need it of course. So how much that fits into the edge scenarios. And I think the main conclusion of the forum session yesterday was that, yeah, Keystone supports Federation. We talked through the cases, and it seems like that it's kind of there. So, we now need a few people who will sit down, put together the environment, and start testing it because that's when it comes out that, you know, almost there, but there a few things to tweak. But basically the idea is what you described, pick up the component, put it there, and work with it. We also have another project called Cyborg, which is fairly new. That's for hardware acceleration, so it is providing a framework to plug in GPUs, FPJs, and these sort of, a bit more specialized hardware which will be really useful for edge use cases to OpenStack. So that's for example something that China Mobile and the OPNFV Edge Cloud Group is looking into to use, so I really hope that we will get there this year to test it in the OPNFV Pharos Labs in action. So we also have pretty great cross-community collaboration on trying to figure this whole thing out. >> Yeah, it often helps if we have examples to talk about to really explain this. Beth Cohen, we spoke with her last year and absolutely caught our attention. Got a lot of feedback from the community on it. Had Contron on earlier this week talking about, John was saying, here's some small device there with a little blade and is running pieces of OpenStack there to be able to run. Anything from the keynote or, boy, I think there's 40 sessions that you've got here. If you can, give us a couple of examples of some of the use cases that we're seeing to kind of bring this edge to reality. >> Example use cases is, we just heard this morning, for example, someone from the textile industry like how to detect issues with the fabric. So this is like one new manufacturing use case. I also heard another one, which is not checking the fabric itself, but basically the company who manufactures those machines that they are using to create the fabric, so they would like to have a central cloud and have it connected to the factories. So, being able to monitor how the machines are doing, how they can improve those machines, and also within the factory to monitor all the circumstances. Because for all the chemical processes, it's really important that the temperature and everything else is just, you know, clicks because otherwise all your fabrics will have to go to trash. So, that's manufacturing. A lot of telecom 5G, obviously that is really, really heavy because that's the part of the industry which is there today, so with 5G, all those strict requirements. This is really what we are mainly focusing on today. We are not specializing anything for telecom and in 5G use cases, but we want to make sure that all our components fit into that environment as well. In the white paper, for example, you also could see the retail use case. I'm not sure whether that will be exactly on stage this week, but that is also a great example on like Walmart with the lot of stores around, so how you manage those stores because they're also not wanting to do everything centrally. So, they would like to move the functionality out. What if the network connectivity is cut? They still have to be able to operate the store as nothing happened. So, there are a lot of segments of the industry who already have kind of really well-defined use cases. And what we see is that there's many overlapping between the requirements from the different segments that we're going to address. >> Are we seeing things like AI and ML coming up in these conversations also? >> Yes, like I think it was the manufacturing use case when I heard that they are planning to use that, and it's popping up. I think as far as our group is concerned, we are more looking into, I don't know, let's say lower-level requirements like how you maintain and operate the hundreds and thousands of edge sites, what happens with security, what happens with monitoring, what happens with all these sort of things. Like we have a new project rolling in under the foundation umbrella called Airship, which is basically deployment and lifecycle management, which is supposed to address one of the aspect that you were talking about on, okay, so how you manage this, how you upgrade this. And upgrade is, again, a really interesting question because I think I talked to someone yesterday who was like, yes, the Contron guys, they were saying that yeah, upgrade, it's really ambitious. So let say that maybe 18, 24 month or something like some kind of tech operator will decide to upgrade something out in the edge because it's out there, it's working, let's not touch this. So when we talk about upgrade, even that, I think, will depend on the bits of the industry that, what pace they will decide to take. >> Are there any particular surprises or learnings that you've had this year after talking with this community for a week now? You said, well, last year, I was very impressed last year when they got up on stage and talked about that. That kind of expanded my mind a little bit. You've been working with this now for a year, this whole track and forum sessions. Anything you're excited about taking to the future or learnings or surprises that, oh, this is really going to work or anything like that? Any parts of it that are really interesting? You talked about security upgrades. We've talked about a lot of the technical components, but it seems like it's working. >> I think at this point, at least on my end, I think I'm over the surprise phase. So what surprises me the most is how many groups there are out there who are trying to figure out what this whole edge thing is. And what we need to really focus on among the technical requirements is that how we are working together with all these groups just to make sure that the integration between the different things that we are all developing and working on is smooth. So like, we've been working together with the OPNFV community for a while now. It's a really fruitful relationship between us. Like seeing OpenStack being deployed in a full-stack environment and being tested, that's really priceless. And we are planning to do the same thing with edge as well, and we are also looking into ONAP, Aquino, Et-see-mac, so looking into the open source groups, looking into the standardization and really just trying to ensure that when we talk about open infrastructure, that that really is designed and developed in a way that integrates well with the other components. It's synchronized with the standardization activities because I think especially in case of edge, when we say interoperability, that's a level higher than what we call the interoperability on the telecom level I think. Like when you just imagine one operator network and applications from other providers popping up in that network, and components that just realizing the network popping up from different vendors. And this whole thing has to work together. So, I think OpenStack and open infrastructure has a really big advantage there compared to any proprietary solution because we have to address this, I think, really big challenge, and it's also a really important challenge. >> Ildiko, really appreciate you giving us all the updates here on the edge track, the keynote, definitely one of the areas that is capturing our attention and lots of people out there. So, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you for the opportunity. >> All right, for John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman. Lots more coverage here from the OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Thanks for watching theCUBE.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our Ecosystem of partners. >> Good morning from AWS re:Invent 2017. I'm Lisa Martin with theCUBE. This is our third day of coverage, wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling. I'm with my great co-host Stu Miniman, and we are excited to be joined by CUBE alumni, Paul Mattes, the VP of the Global Cloud Group at Veeam. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> Hey, Lisa, thanks for having me. >> Great to have you. We're excited to have you here on day three. You look caffeinated. Your feet are rested. >> Paul: I am ready to go. >> And you have a voice, which is more than I think we can say for Stu. >> Paul: I don't know if it's going to be that way at the end of the day, but we'll see. >> Lisa, we're going to get someone to do ASL, for me. >> Oh, wow, that's interesting. So, one of the things that you said, when you were on theCUBE back at VeeamOn, which I love the name, by the way, was that in terms of how businesses should think of the Cloud, they should think of it as a way to deliver business services, and business results, rather than a destination. Expand on that, and how does Veeam help customers, and businesses understand and apply that? >> Sure, so, I think a lot of customers talk about "we have to get to the Cloud", and I've talked with dozens of people here that said, "I'm moving to the Cloud." And we ask why, we ask what they're doing, and they said "because we have to". In a lot cases there's no real clear understanding of what's the value beyond things like cost efficiency, availability, those kinds of things. So, we'd like to talk to customers about saying, once you're there, focus on the business outcome. Why are you adopting a Cloud infrastructure? What is that really gonna do to drive a good solid business outcome for you? And so when you focus on, 'cause at the end of the day, all technology in enterprises has to result in some sort of outcome for a business, right? It's there to serve a purpose. It's there to serve the business. And so, we really want to emphasize that with customers, and once you're there, you're not done. A lot of customers think, "well I'm in the Cloud, I'm safe, I'm secure, I'm protected. "things are geo-replicated." It's more complicated than that. It's more nuanced than that. And this is where Veeam, where we come in, and we say, first, it's essential that you think about data protection, and availability beyond architecting for high availability, but really have a data protection strategy to go along with that, because, you'll hear us talk a lot about the Always-On Enterprise. Businesses, there's no allowance for downtime anymore. Imagine going to your phone and not having the app that you need. Not having the dashboard that you need about where am I with my customers? You can't have that anymore. So what Veeam does is we say, "Great." Let's work together, create a comprehensive data protection availability strategy, based on what Veeam can provide, because your business depends on it. >> Paul, it was during Werner Vogels' keynote this morning, he went through a lot of this, he said, "The way you used to think about things is very different." Like, security. Everybody should be thinking about security. Security is-- >> Everybody's job. >> Everybody's job, absolutely. And when you talk about availability, he went through this really rigorous. It's like, it's not just one availability zone. It's multiple zones. Here's how you get to three nines, four nines. Walk us through a little bit of that journey. If somebody was building in their signal data center, running virtualizations versus, now we're going to the Cloud. What does the Cloud just do for me, and where does Veeam come in and help complete some of those solutions, and keep me available and protected? >> So, first of all, we did a recent survey, 81% of customers that we surveyed said, "We're going to use more than one Cloud." Now, I know that's a challenge, and customers have to figure out, how to have the right Cloud infrastructure for the right work load. AWS is a phenomenal platform that provides an incredible number of services, but customers may not be ready to make that move holistically. So, what we talk about at Veeam is being able to provide data protection and availability for any data, in any app, on any Cloud. Whether that's a private Cloud that you have on Prem. Whether that's a managed Cloud through a service provider, which we have sixteen thousand of those worldwide now, or whether that's a public Cloud, like AWS, or even software as a service. That's another area of emphasis that we're drawing out with customers thinking, "Well, I'm using Office 365, so I'm OK." not realizing that it's still their responsibility to provide data protection. It's not about if Office 365 goes down, it's what if something gets deleted accidentally, maliciously, it's your responsibility to have that, and so that's why we have solutions to help with that. So, that's why when we talk to customers, we think about looking across the span of, again, all in the context of what does your business need to do? >> Yeah, Paul, talk to us about what you're hearing from customers, because we see most companies have a Cloud strategy today. 85% of companies say they have a Cloud strategy. My discussion with the customers is, well the ink's pretty dry, pretty wet still on those, and it's changing. We say, are they doing tests, of course, Office 365, Sales Force all of the above, they have all of these pieces. One of the big things they're trying to do is get their arms around it, and justify. What are the prevailing strategies out there? What are some of the challenges they're facing, that you're seeing? >> So, I think a couple of things. It's a great question, and it's interesting because we've talking about the Cloud for, I don't know, since 2006, 2007? And despite the fact that I believe that this adoption is happening at a greater pace than we've ever seen of any wave of technology in history, customers are still struggling with it, because it is such a paradigm shift. Virtualization was a shift, but it was kind of easy for customers to get their heads around, you could see the benefits. Cloud is much more complicated, longer term endeavor. What we're hearing from customers is they need help figuring out what I was talking about earlier. What do I do, where? If I could go all-in in Amazon Web Services and build everything, fantastic. I'm gonna go do that. We hear that a lot from customers, that they have not just an idea, but a mandate to say, "I've gotta go do this". The things that they think through is, do I lift and shift applications? Do I do rewrite from the ground up? Do I just say anything new, now is gonna be Cloud native, and I'm gonna slowly sunset other things in my IT portfolio over time. They're struggling with how to do that. There's an education issue there, to get really super smart about how you do that. Security is an overwhelming concern, as you heard this morning. In the last four years, three four years, we've seen amazing improvements in security, and in public Cloud infrastructures, and with managed Cloud service providers as well. It's become such a focus. There's robust capabilities now, and I believe, that in many cases, public Clouds like AWS, managed service projects, they're more secure than maybe a typical enterprise data center is. >> One of the things I'm interested in is healthcare. That's been a historcally slow vertical to move to Cloud, for obvious reasons. HIPPA in the US, a lot of retention, but there's a massive amount of potential that can benefit so many people, whether its getting faster to diagnoses, being able to collaborate across University organizations, or what not, but in terms of security and data protection, and privacy and retention, what are you seeing in terms of maturation and healthcare? Are you seeing more of readiness to start shifting certain workloads to Cloud? >> Yeah, so I spent, probably 19 years of my career in healthcare, both in the provider community, and in pharmaceutical, and life science development. And I think there's two things happening, Lisa, right now, there's the capabilities have been improved dramatically to accommodate and meet HIPPA requirements, meet regulatory requirements over at EMEA, and over at APJ, and now there's more of a willingness to do this. I think we're starting to see a bit of a generational shift in healthcare, where there's an expectation that when I'm in the healthcare system I'll have access to the same kind of information I have about my bank account, my checking, you know, my portfolio, and so, there's a maturity in the IT assets, and there's a willingness now to go do it, and I believe there is probably in more than any other industry, this is a place where you can, the Cloud can have a massive, massive impact. You saw in Verner's keynote this morning, bringing Alexa into the workplace. I think that's gonna be a trend we're gonna continue to see. AI, voice enabled apps, moving in healthcare. Imagine having a dashboard in front of a healthcare worker, where they have all the access and they can use natural language queries to talk about a patient and get access, and analysis to data in an instant. It's gonna happen, it's going to happen, and I think it's gonna happen faster now that we are where we are. >> Paul, these modern applications are a big discussion at a show like this. Everything from microservice to architecture is, you know, no sequel. You mention IOT and AI and everything. How does data protection change for some of these, kinda Cloud native environments? >> It gets trickier in Cloud native, the trick there is figuring out what I need to protect when, right? I think we're seeing when we've had some conversations about is, not backing up, you know backing up the entire app, backing them all up, but backing up the configuration so at the end of the day, maybe the configuration becomes the thing that you focus on protecting because if everything else goes down, you can just rehydrate that configuration, get everything back up online and go. So, it's more complicated, these large-scale databases present some interesting challenges. We are working through some roadmap items now that I think will be pretty interesting in the not too distant future to help address this because I think it's still early days in terms of serverless and containerization. But, we want to be on the front-end of that because again, you can't ignore the idea of data protection or availability just because you have a different development paradigm now. >> The availability for AWS, what are the differentiators, what are the benefits? >> So, a view availability for AWS, we announced a little while ago, it's gonna be coming out probably in early 2018. This is in the idea of when we talk about data protection and availability, our Cloud strategies predicated on three pillars. We talk about too the Cloud, from the Cloud, and within the Cloud. To the Cloud is where everybody's sorta moving to now. That's following what we call the three, two, one rule. Three copy the data, two different media, one of which is stored somewhere else. Customers are now saying, "that should just all be in the Cloud." I heard a quote from a customer that said, "Your capital budget for disaster recovery "and back-up should be zero." All of that stuff should be in the Cloud next model. And then, from the Cloud, is what I talked about earlier, Office 365, backing up sass applications, and then within the cloud is, I wanna be able to back up everything inside a database. I don't want any on prem infrastructure, I don't want anything, I wanna be able to have my whole data protection strategy played out in the Cloud infrastructure. What availability for AWS will provide is the ability to manage easy two instances to provide the availability for EC2 instances at a fine level of granularity, and that can be either within EC2, or if what we have actually, is a surprising number of customers saying, "I'd like to bring that out of the data center." Now, it remains to be seen if, it has a great deal of acceleration and growth. We're gonna allow customer flexibility. If a customer wants to do that, fantastic. If they want to manage it all within AWS, fantastic. We're gonna let them do that. >> Paul, THE VMware on AWS solution, something that gets talked a lot of that show, it seems like something that'd be a natural fit for Veeam to get involved in. Can you bring us up the feed on that? And are there any other announcements this week that are relevant to your ecosystem? >> Yeah, so, no other announcements from us right now. The things that we're talking about in the booth while we're here, one of which is Veeam Back-up and replication for VMC on AWS. >> Stu: That's not a mouthful or anything. >> There's a lot of Vs in there. We think that that could be a game-changer. We really do. I think that was a very good strategic move by both VMWare and AWS to allow customers to do this. We are excited, coming out in version 9.5, update three, which I believe is gonna go GA here in the next couple of days. Customers will be able to use their Veeam infrastructure to provide data protection for those VMWare environments on AWS, just as they would anywhere else in their data center. >> It sounds like you're getting a lot of demand from customers. they're excited for that. I've heard pricing sometimes a concern. What do you hear from customers sometimes about that? >> Yeah, I think customers are still trying to figure out sizing, I think there's still some things to come in terms of how that's gonna roll out over time. I know VMWare has promised to make quarterly updates, I know they've delivered some things this week. We have a fantastic relationship with VMWare, we've been partners for over a dozen years now, and we will continue to engineer our solution with them together so that we can provide the optimal performance for customers. We do think there's gonna a lot of demand for it. We think it could be big. >> Well we know how fast AWS is growing, we know that Veeam is adding 4,000 customers a month. You guys are approaching the one billion dollar mark in revenue, and accelerating very quickly. So, Paul, thanks again for joining us on theCUBE, we appreciate your insight. >> Thank you so much, it was great being here. >> Excellent, and for my co-host, Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin, you are watching theCUBE LIVE from AWS re:Invent 2017 in Las Vegas, stick around, we'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Madrid Spain, it's theCUBE covering HPE Discover Madrid 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> We're back. This is theCUBE that you're watching, the leader in live tech coverage. We're at HPE Discover 2017 in Madrid. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with my co-host for the week, Peter Burris. Peter, it's been great working with you this week. >> Indeed, it's been great. >> We're winding down, and we're really excited to have Ric Lewis, >> Great ideas. >> Senior Vice President and General Manger of the Software Defined and Cloud Group. Many time CUBE guest with HPE, and Jeff Wike of Dreamworks. CTO, thanks for coming on. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> Great to see you. You're welcome. Been a good week? >> It's been a fantastic week. >> Things are coming into focus? >> They are. >> You killed it on the keynote, how are you feeling? >> Feeling really good, feeling really good. I mean, the momentum in the software defined and cloud arena is just fantastic. You know, there were times when I used to visit with you guys and we were only talking about what's coming in the future. Now we're talking a lot about what we have, what customers are buying, where we have momentum. And still introducing new things, so it's just a whole lot of fun. >> Jeff, Senior Vice President, CTO, can we talk a little bit about your role? What the scope is? >> Sure. Sure, so Dreamworks Animation, you may have heard of it. >> Yeah. We do we make animated films. >> Good friend Kate Swanberg's been on a number of times. >> Kate's, love her. We make animated films, we do a lot more than that. We're a digital content creation company. So we, we're the largest TV animation studio in the world. We're doing theme park ride work, cause we've got, we're now under NBC Universal. So we're doing a lot of projects, it's a very busy time for us. >> So, Synergy, we talked about Synergy a lot, there's nothing >> Yeah. >> like Synergy we've heard. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Fluid pools of infrastructure. >> Yeah, it just gets better. >> Wait and see and so, what can you tell us? How's the momentum? >> Yeah let's talk a little bit about that. So the momentum on Synergy is fantastic. We started shipping in volume at this conference last year, basically December of last year. And the response has been fantastic. We've looked at Momentum for new infrastructure plays. You know if you look back at our history, whether it was the C7000 or whether it was UCS from Cisco or whether it was VCEs built on UCS, Nutanix. If you kind of look at the first year of a new infrastructure play, Synergy looks like it's the fastest growing thing ever. It's just fantastic, really growing for us. We have over 1100 customers on Synergy now. You know, and that's in 11 months of shipping. And the business, it just continues to grow quarter by quarter. Just really thrilled with the progress there, so happy. >> And you guys are customers? >> We're big customers, if we're not the biggest customer, we're certainly the biggest fan. >> One of the biggest, one of the biggest customers, maybe the biggest fan. >> Certainly the biggest fan. >> Okay so Jeff, tell us, take us back to sort of pre-Synergy, you know, what was it like before and after and what has it done for your business in particular? >> Well one of the things that that we face going forward is we developed, in our infrastructure, and inner data center, we do a lot of rendering to make a movie. That's our largest high performance compute. You know, 80 million render hours, CPU hours to make one of these films. And we're making a lot of them at the same time. We really defined that work flow, and how we optimize the data center hardware to be able to go through that work flow and be able to be as efficient as possible. The issue came with we have a lot of other projects that are coming in, and since we are now under NBC Universal, there's a lot of other work that's happening there. And also, different types of media that's coming, you know, around the corner. And we want to be able to prepare for that. What we would have done traditionally would be to buy to peak, you know because it is rather cyclical, and that's what we would do that on prem, peak. But if we had a special project, we might buy or segment a portion of that and say, you know, this is for this purpose. This is for that purpose, but that's very inefficient. So with Synergy, the beauty of it is we can purchase you know that hardware, but then if we want to be able to use it for another project, we can do that. And we can do that very very quickly. >> You said you repurpose that across your application portfolio. Or your project portfolio. >> Yeah. Yeah, it gives us, I like to say it future proofs us. Because now no matter what the parent company or our own creative ambitions are, we can handle that. We can't say no, well we never say no. We usually say not right now, or wait a couple of weeks or a couple of months to be able to provision that. And now it's, it's instantaneous. >> And I know what Ric's answer would be to this, but I want to hear from the customers. Is this really different than other products that you've experienced. >> It's totally unique. We haven't experienced it before. And I'll give you, I'll give you a little example. We just got our order. We got about 200 servers of Synergy that arrived a couple of months ago. And within seven working days, we were using it in production. And I just want to say, we took, I don't know if I told you this story, but we were able to provision all of that from the time we mounted in the racks within five hours, which is incredible. It would have taken us easily three weeks before. In fact, it took us longer to take it out of the cartons than it did to provision. >> Well, so let me see if I... You're talking about maybe 200 servers. You're probably talking about 8,000 individual tasks configured. To get it done in five hours you probably perform what, 40, 50 tasks? Administrative steps? >> By the way, first time doing it. And our engineers were saying, we could've used more parallelism. We could've done it faster. You know, it's almost a challenge to see just how easy you can do this. >> But I got that right? Is it really like 98 percent reduction in the administrative tasks? >> Absolutely. >> Really? >> That's incredible. >> It is. >> Huh, alright. >> That's before you start flexing work, flexing resources against different workloads and dynamically reprovisioning. This is just provisioning the first time. But it, if you think about it, if you're gonna do it dynamically, it can't take forever, so you've gotta make it, the first time it's gotta be super fast. >> Okay. >> So, I have to admit I'm a little stunned, I didn't know that. So, and as you said, the whole point is that you can reprovision >> Yes. >> Over and over. Which means that the... There's something in economics and technology that's known as an asset specificity. And an asset has high specificity when you buy it and can appropriate it to a specific purpose. And about the only thing in tech that makes something an asset specificity is the administrative tasks of changing it to prepare it to do something else. And you just told me that I can remove nearly 100% of the transaction costs associated with taking an asset from this and applying it to that. >> If you're gonna destroy silos in the data center, that's what you have to do. >> But that's... >> Right, so silo is this asset specificity. If you can repurpose it immediately. >> So I'm excited, that's my second question. How did your people respond to this? Because I talked to a lot of other CIOs that say one of the biggest challenges I'm having, or CTOs, one of the biggest challenges I'm having is I'm able to converge hardware, I'm able to converge to some software, I'm able to converge Administrative tasks, but my people don't like converge. What, they don't like to converge. How are you walking your people through some of these changes to liberate these opportunities? >> Well we've been moving toward, from more traditional, we'll call it IT for now. From traditional IT to dev ops environment and, you know what, it's change. So we've been bringing people along in that you know, to, and some people adapt to it. They say wow this is gonna be great for my career. And engineers want to always use the new stuff, so from that aspect of I know how I work, and I know what I do, to here's a better way of doing it to be more automated, it's been a good experience for people. And you know what, the chance of human error in configuring things... If I look to my long history at Dreamworks, 21 years, I look at any down time we've had or any problems, 90% of that has been from misconfiguration. And it's usually from somebody fat fingering, you know a parameter in the set up of the servers. And now, that's virtually eliminated. >> Did you have to go through some kind of organizational, internal sort of discussion, transformation, whatever you want to call it to actually get to the point where you could buy this way, buy a sort of single SKU of Synergy? Because you maybe previously you were buying bespoke, kind of roll your own components. A little server here, maybe some storage over there, maybe some networking here. Now maybe it's all HP that made it simpler, but you probably had specialist in each of those areas, did you not? >> We did. >> How did you deal with that organizational friction? >> You know, that was an issue as and by the way, there's so many, there's so much technology that's being developed some of it open source, some of it in this partner ecosystem that you have. And trying to stay abreast of that has been a real challenge. And one of the things that we always dreamed of is wouldn't it be nice if there was one way that you could control that. The single pane of glass, which is you know, to be able to have an API layer that everybody could hook in to. I think you've got a company like Hewlett Packard Enterprise that has that dominance in the market place to be able to dictate, I'm using that word. >> Yeah. >> Maybe dictate isn't the right word. >> Offer. >> Offer. (group laughing) >> That's the word we use. Enable. >> Enable, you know those APIs. And all of those are being developed you know almost in parallel. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So this stuff is really coming in. Now we have our own... We're a snowflake like everybody else is to your point. And what we've done is we brought in the Pointnext team to go in and write those northbound APIs so that we can hook in to one view. To be able to manage all of our legacy, I'll call it legacy, our previous infrastructure along with you know, the new tech that we're buying. So that it makes it easy to manage. >> They made it match the composable API that we put into Synergy. It's natively integrated. All the ecosystem partners are adapting to it. And they said we'll just use that as our standard to even manage our legacy infrastructure. Plus, since Oneview runs on legacy infrastructure, all of the HPE stuff, it just adapts like that. So it's been a very good, good project. >> So you've got a lot of experience with this now. Can you share with, maybe you can quantify it, maybe you can't, but even subjectively the developer impact or the animator impact, the business impact to Dreamworks? >> So the biggest impact... Well I have three things that are my, actually I got this from Meg Whitman, I had a list of 12 objectives for the studio for technology and she said at one of the CIO summits, you've gotta have three. So I said okay, I've gotta pare it down to three. And one of those is provide the technology, the software and infrastructure to meet the creative needs. The second one was innovate for competitive advantage. And the third one was drive efficiency into operations. And if you look at what Synergy provides, it hits every single one of those. So we've actually, you know, over the past year or two, we've actually reduced the number of people that we have maintaining our infrastructure, which is amazing if you consider the fact that this year we doubled the size of our infrastructure. In what other business, in what other area can you actually reduce the amount of people that are maintaining something while you're doubling the amount that you're maintaining. That never happens. And I think it's because of this software defined infrastructure and the fact that you can write these recipes or profiles, whatever you want to call them, personalities. >> Yep, yep, yep. >> To be able to... And test them and harden them. And by the way, that reminds me, one of the things I really like about this is our ability to do proofs of concept, to try different workflows and all that without having to take away resources from the main thing that we're doing which is the artistic community. So we can actually say, you know what? We're gonna go in, reimage these servers. We're gonna do that at night to run this test, in the morning they're back, they're back in the pool. And that's an amazing thing. >> That's dynamic provisioning. No one else can dynamically provision. >> Yeah. >> All the converge systems, all the hyper converge, they're provisioned a certain way. They run VMs a certain way. They stay that way for their lifetime. This stuff dynamically reprovisions, and you guys, you're not even talking about kind of doing containers with VMs and containers with your bare metal, you can dynamically reprovision across that as well. >> Yeah, what he said. (laughter) >> Listen, we're just getting started so just relax, okay. These guys are telling me we gotta wrap. We're not gonna wrap. >> No. >> We haven't even gotten to One Sphere yet. >> We have other topics. Exactly. >> So let's get to One Sphere. >> Yeah. >> Yeah I want to talk about One Sphere. But I do want to say. >> Go ahead, last thought. >> One more thing, so you talked about artists, but the other part of it is for developers so one of the things we don't want the engineering teams to be a hindrance to the developers. Because they want to be able to move quickly, they want to be able to be assessing, and I think one of the things that's not just an impact on our artists, to be able to do these new projects, but also it makes our developers more efficient. They don't have to wait. >> Yeah. >> Okay, great. Now let's talk multi cloud. >> Yep. >> A lot of complexity, the more things get simple, the more complex they seem to get. So, One Sphere. You guys announced yesterday. >> Yeah, so. A core pillar of the HP strategy, make hybrid IT simple, right. And you can see from this conversation we're making hybrid IT simple on-prem. Not only do we have Synergy, but we have a fantastic offering in our Simplivity space. And that platform's over 2,000 customers and growing like crazy as well. But after we did that, we said look, we've got fantastically simple virtualization clusters in Simplivity, we've got great dynamic reprovisioning and composable infrastructure, but customer are not... That's part of their hybrid IT problem, that's the on-prem part. They're also wrestling with I've got multiple cloud instances, I need to get insights into where I'm spending my money, where workloads are deployed and all that. So we started this program, HPE OneSphere. We've had it going for almost three years. We had a small team on it early on. We ramped up the staffing a couple years ago. And what it really does, it's pretty simple. It allows you to build clouds, deploy apps, and gain insights extremely fast. So it's designed for IT ops to be able to build and deploy a private cloud as fast as they can and assemble that with their public cloud assets. And provide one place to look at all of those. For developers, it provides a common multi-tenant environment that has all the services and tools they need to be able to deploy an application whether it's on-prem or off-prem, and you can choose, you can build applications that have some of both inside that developer environment. And then for the business, it shows insights into where's the money being spent? Where are those workloads running and what's it costing me? So, think of it almost as composable at that next level where it's not just resources within chassis, now it's resources across the hybrid IT estate. It actually is public cloud assets from any of the public clouds, whether it's AWS, Azure, Google, Cloud28+, as well as your private cloud assets. And it automates the life cycle stuff that we were just talking about through this application into OneView. It's a SaaS environment, so actually OneSphere is software as a service. It lives in the cloud, it's a subscription that our customers buy, and it does all of this capability to simplify their hybrid environment and taps into the capabilities we just talked about. It's fantastic, nobody has anything like it. >> Okay well we've heard that before, but now... >> Exactly. >> You're putting your money where your mouth is. >> So I was right on that one. >> Okay but it's early days for OneSphere. >> Okay. >> And your private cloud is what we call a true private cloud. >> Which you said on stage yesterday. >> I did that's exactly right. >> It's evidence by your ability to reduce staff to manage infrastructure. >> It's a con experience wherever the data requires is how we put it. >> Yes, yes. We want the simplicity of management and the availability of apps that you get in public cloud in the private cloud. >> And the pricing. Yeah? >> Well, yeah, well... No, cause it's actually more expensive to go public cloud. >> I mean pricing models. >> Oh yes, yeah. >> The consumption is what you're basically talking about, yeah. >> And so you, Jeff you guys are OneSphere or OneSphere betas? >> Yeah, you bet. >> So what were you trying to learn? What were you kicking the tires on, testing? Where'd you focus? >> We, you know, if we look at the future, we're not gonna be on-prem forever, and I certainly don't want to be on-prem forever, I want to take advantage of flexing to public cloud, but again, for our films, you know, we want to be able to provide the producers of those movies, what is that gonna cost me? What is that, how can I tell you what that costs? And where can we move as we start to do more different types of projects? Which ones should go to the public cloud? Which ones should stay inside? And be able to understand that. The other thing that made us nervous about public cloud. Was what they call the zombie cloud instances, you know where you went in, you provision something and then you forget about, and you, but you're paying, you know. And that's, a lot of money is made. >> Kind of like app subscriptions. >> Group: Yes, exactly. >> I'm still paying for that? (laughter) >> Exactly but this gives you all of that... >> 4,000 dollars a month. >> A little different right. >> Or 15,000 a month. (laughter) >> Yeah, that's for sure. That visibility is something that all... We talk about it, CFOs hate this thing... Some of the consumption model is shifting from cap ex to op ex, but CFOs hate surprise op ex. And that's where they're actually surprised by oh my gosh look at that bill. Well this provides visibility into all of those assets, whether they're on-prem or off-prem and what they're costing you. And it's always up to date, and it's always consistent across your entire farm, so you can choose and say that's costing me too much, I want to move those apps over here. And immediately do it. And for a lot of our customers, they're over-provisioned so they have spare capacity on-prem they're not taking advantage of. Why not use some of that and it's instantly provisioned. >> And that's where you initially, anyway, see the business value of OneSphere. >> Well, look, it's OneSphere to rule them all. And I believe whether it's private, public, you know we really want to have what is my total resource availability? So in the future, we never say no anymore. Really, we can tell them how much, but you don't have to say no. And the other thing is we can do this stuff instantly. So, we don't even say when, we just go now here's what you have to pay if you want to do it, we can provide those options. It's a new world. >> I love the demo of, I don't know if you guys saw it, there's a demo with Pong, you know, it's the IT guy of the past. >> Yeah the guy saying no. >> And then they made it vertical. It's the IT guy of the future. So, alright my last question. What cool movies can we anticipate? What's coming? >> Well you know what, How to drain... How to Train, how to drain your tragon I was gonna say. (laughter) How to Train Your Dragon 3 is our next film out and it's gonna be unbelievable. >> I'll bet. >> So my last question. Am I gonna have to continue to sit through 15 minutes of IT credits at the end of future Dreamworks movies as a consequence of Synergy? >> There's less, cause there's less resources required to manage your Synergy hardware. So it's less people. >> I know you don't sit through the credits. (laughter) >> I do. (laughter) I love credits. Alright guys, thanks very much for coming on. >> Thank you. >> It's been a great pleasure. >> Thank you, always fun. >> Alright keep it there everybody, Peter and I will be back to wrap up HPE Discover 2017 from Madrid, you're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Madrid, Spain. It's theCUBE. Covering HB Discover Madrid 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. >> Welcome back to Madrid everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We're here, day one of HPE Discover Madrid. HP's European show, I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host Peter Burris. Said Syed is here. He's the director of Software-Defined and Cloud Group at Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, and he's joined by Katreena Mullican, who is a senior architect and cloud whisperer at HudsonAlpha Institute for Biotech. Folks, welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Happy to be here. >> Great to be here, thanks. So Said, we're very excited about this new developer initiative that you're leading. After the Spin merge, lot of software chops and developer communities went, but Hewlett-Packard Enterprise committed to developers, so tell us about this new initiative. >> Yeah, absolutely, so we're launching this community next week at QCon, and it is a pan-HP program which enables all of the different developers that are already out there. We already have thriving communities, they were just individual and ad hoc, and we'll put them under the pan-HP developer community umbrella where developers can congregate with HPE developers and partners, ISVs like Mesosphere and others, and talk about how we can fix their problems, and they can help us get better at what we do. >> So, Katreena, I think dog whisperer, horse whisperer, they can tame my animals. Cloud whisperer, can you help me tame my cloud? What is a cloud whisperer? >> Sure, what I do is wrap my head around all of the different cloud architectures available for both private and public cloud, and research those, figure out quickly which ones can benefit HudsonAlpha and the type of research that we do with genomics, and put all the right pieces together. Make a solution out of it that's secure and available 24/7, 365. >> So tell us a little bit more about HudsonAlpha. >> So HudsonAlpha is a non-profit institute. We are an organization of entrepreneurs, scientists and educators, who are applying genomics to everyday life. We collaborate on our 150 acre campus in Huntsville, Alabama with 40 affiliate companies. So it really is an effort to come together between scientists and researchers, and IT. >> And you really can't talk about cloud without talking about developers, so from a developer's perspective what do you want from the guys who are providing infrastructure hardware and software? >> Well, we have turned our IT department into developers, and I think that's something that not everyone does, and I think it's an important first step to being able to really leverage the type of infrastructure that HPE offers. We have composible infrastructure in our data center. We have hyper-converged infrastructure. We have storage, we have all these different pieces that we are able to provision automatically and fluidly, rapidly, with API, which requires developer mindset, right? Not your traditional system administration, just keep an eye on a server. It's not like that any more, and I think it's really important that IT embraces developer practices and dev ops. And we're actually doing that at the hardware level, as well as then, right, you prep that foundation, so that your developer teams, your software developer teams can then build on it, too. >> I think this is a crucially important step for virtually every CIO to think about, and let me explain what I mean as quickly as I can. Every CIO says, "What am I going to do with my infrastructure people?" Analysts like us always say, "Oh, liberate your people to go solve problems." But having infrastructure people at least start thinking, acting like, imagining like developers is a step that allows you to solve near-term problems, and get them on the path to really using a developer mindset or developer problem-solving skills that may, in fact, help the business in other ways in the future. What do you think about that? >> Right, I think it is asking the IT traditional roles to step up, and learn a new skill set, which is not easy. It's an investment of time and resources, but well worth the effort. I think if you do not do that and expand your skill set, you will not be able to leverage these solutions that are out there. Or you'll just be using them kind of out of the box, which they'll work out of the box, but is that really what they're capable of doing? >> So how long did this take, to go through this transition at HudsonAlpha? >> Well, I've been with HudsonAlpha for two years, and from the moment that I arrived, we have a very small IT department, just a handful of people, so from the moment that I arrived, we just architect the job description that way, right? We write into the job description, "Welcome to IT. "By the way, you're a dev op software engineer now. "You're an infrastructure administrator. "You need to understand software to find networking." All of these pieces are expected, and it can be a lot of work to learn that on the side, but well worth it, yeah. >> Absolutely, absolutely, and I can tell you HudsonAlpha obviously is ahead of its time in terms of things that they are doing, 'cause trying to organize your workforce around software development mindset versus infrastructure administration mindset, it's a huge ordeal. But the way they have done it, is actually, I'm very happy to partner with them on this thing. >> So Said, how are you going to sort of measure success of this initiative? What are your objectives and what should we be looking for over the next 12, 18 months? >> Yeah, so our measure of success is how many developers are joining the community, and actually active. 'Cause people can join but if they're not active it's not really worth their time, right? So developers getting active on our slat channels, which we have all integrated into a platform, and then on our side, our developers, and our R-and-D guys are actually going to be collaborating directly with our users, the developers, you know, people like Katreena and others. And so measure of success is going to be how many problems we're able to solve, how much contribution people like Katreena are going to have on the platform itself, and what type of contribution, what type of API integration we're good doing, those are the kind of things we're looking for in short term. How many HP platform, how many, number of SDKs, number of blogs, those kinds of things, right? So those are the kind of analytics that we're going to actually follow through over the next 12 to 18 months. The idea needs to be every software platform, or every software solution that we launch, like OneSphere, it will be API-driven right from the start. And partner-driven, and developer-centric, right from the start. That's our idea of how we measure success here. >> Okay, we got to go, but Katreena, we'll give you the last word. What are you looking for, how will you measure success of this initiative? >> Well, success for us are completed projects and saving lives, literally. That's the wonderful thing about working at HudsonAlpha. It's very measurable in the amount of compute that we can accomplish, and storage that we can provision, and keep up the environment for the researchers, so-- >> Great, excellent. Well, have a great rest of Discover. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Thank you, all right, bye-bye. >> You're welcome, all right, keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. (electronica flourish)

>> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, it's The Cube covering VeeamON 2017. Brought to you by Veeam. (upbeat jingle) >> Welcome back to New Orleans everybody. I'm Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman and this is The Cube. The Cube is a leader in live tech coverage, and we're here covering VeeamON 2017. This is day two for us. Paul Mattes is here. He's the vice president of The Global Cloud Group at Veeam. Paul, good to see you. >> Hey, great to be here guys. Thanks for having me in. >> You're welcome. Hosting the conference this morning, throwing Peter MacKay under the bus a little bit. That was kind of funny. He's going to get you in a headlock later. (laughter) No doubt. But you know, it's funny, it's great. VeeamON is an experience for people. You know, it's not just about the hardcore learning, which there's a lot of that going on, but it's about having fun. And a lot of people here are having fun, and you guys embrace that, it's great. >> Yeah, I mean, it's part of our culture, right? I think that's why it's a great company. It's one of the reasons why I came here. And listen, if you can't have fun doing something you love, there's something wrong. So, yeah, we're going to keep that up. >> A lot of sports analogies going on too, which we love in The Cube, oh geeze, ya know? (laughter) Sports angles, and so you guys seem like you're pretty competitive. You're not afraid to put it out there. So, give us the lay of the land. What's happening in the marketplace? >> So, on the cloud specifically this is an area of major growth for us at Veeam. I think it's certainly a competitive landscape, no question about that, but I think we have some advantages given our lineage and where we've evolved from, from an on-prem organization into the cloud. The cloud market's moving very rapidly. You heard me talk about that this morning a little bit, about the pace of cloud adoption. I think it's happening much more quickly than we've ever seen, and I haven't talked to anyone here, and having dozens and dozens of conversations, who haven't talked about having some kind of cloud strategy or trying to figure out how that impacts their go-forward planning in IT. >> You gave some IDC stats I wanted to ask you about that. 46% I think by 2019... >> 2019, right. >> Are going to be doing cloud, and I presume that meant both on-prem cloud? >> Correct. >> So, cloud being an operating model not necessarily a destination. >> That's right, yeah. >> Talk about that a little, what does that mean? >> So, yeah, you hear Danny and I talk about this all the time is that I've been doing the cloud since 2010 when I was with Azure at Microsoft. And everybody talks about moving to the cloud as if that's it, you know, once you're there, it's over with. The reality is, you need to think of the cloud as a way to deliver business results and deliver business solutions. So, just getting to the cloud doesn't mean you're over. Doesn't mean you don't have to think about things like availability and data protection and backup and disaster recovery. So the journey to the cloud, I think it's sort of a, it's a step, right? And then once you're there, there's a whole lot more that you have to do once you're there. >> Paul, one of the things I've been seeing for a couple of years is when it comes to cloud, follow the applications and follow the data. You said you worked on Azure. I mean, no doubt that Azure has lots of applications. Business productivity, I think marketers did a great job this morning laying that out. Virtualization was kind of a tool that applications sat on top. What's that maturation that you see of customers as to how they think about their data and their applications and where things live? >> Yeah, no, it's a great question. I think they're getting much smarter about how they separate and divide those things intelligently. Especially when you think about things like, you know, Mark talked this morning about Stretch DB moving into Azure. And so customers are having to rethink all that that because the cloud really does change how you have to think about application architecture, application deployment. Especially as you do division of data application and sort of the entire architecture end to end. So, I think we're still early days, quite frankly. I think for as much as cloud is in the buzz, and we love where we're evolving to as a cloud organization. The market in general is still early days, and there's a lot of work left to do there. >> Paul, what visibility do you give customers, and how do you help when it comes to the cost of all of this? There's so much, it's often on fud in the market place as to, oh well public cloud's super expensive. No wait, owning it yourself is always expensive. You should always rent versus buy. How do you inject yourself into that conversation? >> Great question, and this is something that has come up since day one. And the assumption is, you've got commodity hardware, you've got scale, so you've got decreasing costs. The reality is it's workload. It's entirely workload dependent, right? There are some workloads that you want to put into the cloud. Absolutely, you would experience amazing economics. We talked today about the scale out backup repository model, taking advantage of Blob story. Perfect example, one of the things customers need to think about is, in addition to those things is ingress and egress costs. It's not just the cost of storage. In the cloud, you have things that surround that in order to make it workable and make it really, really valuable. So one of the things we are doing now with customers is we're starting to work through and develop models to help them think though that. In various stages of network costs, storage costs, and being able to give them some tools that really help them make those decisions. It's not an easy task by any means because at the senior level, executives seem to say, well everybody's saving money in the cloud. Why aren't we there? Why aren't we experiencing that? When you get into the details, it's a little more complicated. But, at the end of the day, the right workload in the right cloud infrastructure, absolutely economic advantages, and more importantly, business advantages. >> Doesn't the savings or business impact really come from what we were talking about earlier, the operating model? Alan Nance, who was the former CIO of Phillips, he was on The Cube, and he said, "If you don't change your operating model, "you're going to just barely scratch the surface of benefits." And so, I wonder if we could explore that a little bit. Is that what you're seeing in the marketplace, that people lift and shift? Maybe there's an advantage that you're shifting CapEx to OpEx, but it's really not moving. >> No, I totally agree. That's not, and it's always frustrated me a little that the economic end of it really seems to dominate a lot of the conversation based on perception. The reality is, yes, this is about changing the operating model and changing the ability of the organization to map to customer demand and map to market demand. The cloud does provide that, and you can't just lift and shift. Yeah, that's okay for some things, but you really have to rethink, okay, if I have this agility and the ability to deliver solutions in a cloud, what does that really mean? How do I really have to think through that from end to end, not just, going back to our earlier question, I'm going to put that in the cloud and we're done. You know? Absolutely you have to rethink everything when you're moving to the cloud from an application's perspective. >> And then from Veeam's perspective, when you think about cloud, obviously you featured Azure up there today. You guys have talked about Affinity with AWS, but there's a lot of cloud providers. >> Paul: Oh yeah, 18,000 of 'em for us. >> And some of those may be managed hosting, but the business model is similar to cloud. So, what are you seeing in terms of the, the market's highly fragmented today. It's very localized. In your view, will it stay that way? Will you see substantial consolidation, or will it be more like the services markets typically are, which is very local, very fragmented, zillions of companies? >> I think, and we think, that there will continue to be a consolidation in this part of the market. There's been an explosion of providers. And what happens is, how do you differentiate if you're a provider in that market, right? What is your secret sauce? What makes you more attractive than another provider? And so, we were already seeing consolidation globally for organizations, so what'll happen, what we think will happen is, yes, there will be some that are very niche, very specialized that continue to have great success, but we will see organizations coming together. Increasingly what we're seeing is providers wrapping new value at its services around their offering, right? This is how they differentiate. We're also seeing service providers that are starting to verticalize. So specializing in a particular healthcare of financial services market as a way to provide value and differentiation for themselves. It's not going to just, and this is why one of the things we've done in Veeam is yes, we will continue to grow the provider base but really focusing ones that differentiate and add value to customers and can partner really, really well with Veeam. >> Paul, Veeam kind of grew up right at that time that not only was was VMware exploding on the market, but there was a new virtualization administrator that didn't exist before. And Veeam helped solve a really salient pain-point that they had. Can you talk to us about when it comes to cloud who are you selling to? The community's very different in a very fragmented cloud world than that kind of big VMware community that we all know. >> Yeah, so it's interesting because we're clearly in an evolution at Veeam. Veeam's legacy, very squarely focused in IT and the IT pro community. That won't change. That will not change. But as you heard from all of our messaging here over the past couple of days, what we really want to continue to evolve to is understanding from a business perspective what is the business value of driving agility, or, driving agility and availability? And so that is now a conversation at a different level. You're talking a CIO level. You're talking COO level. And that's an evolution. It's an easy conversation to have when you're talking about a bits and bytes perspective of how do the bits move, and what are these feature's functions? But you'll see us continually now relate this to, what are the business outcomes? What are the business risks? Why do you need to have an availability strategy, and why is Veeam the choice for that? >> So your positioning is as an availability specialist. No question about that. I want to start by talking a little bit about the market for that. So there's Multi-Cloud, there's Hybrid-Cloud that you've talked about this. I don't know, sometimes we call it inter-clouding. But you are positioning the strategy as positioning in the middle of all that as the availability, the best at availability, always on. So, first of all, how big is that market? Can you talk a little bit about the TAM, however you look at it? Maybe not hardcore numbers, but if you have 'em, we'd love it, but how do you look at that? >> Well I think Peter presented some data in his keynote on Tuesday. And we see the total addressable market as in the six to nine billion dollar range, which is pretty massive. If we can capture just a fraction of that, we're going to easily blow through our stated goals of getting to a billion, a billion five in the next couple of years. So, and that's why we're going to, we will continue to focus across the spectrum of those platforms, right? You heard us talk about, that's the core. We grew up in virtualization, now physical, and that we're going to attack storage. But, and we won't lose that. But now, understanding how all the different cloud assets and cloud platforms intersect that, that whole market is massive and will continue to grow. It's interesting, I was talkin' the other night with an analyst about cloud predictions, and we said, we'd love to go back and look at the last four or five years of predictions from analysts and see, where do they land? Where do they really end up? And I went back, and this is not an in-depth, robust survey, but going back a few years looking at all the estimates of cloud market growth, they were all wrong. And they were all wrong on the low side, all right? And it's hard sometimes to get analysts to not over-hype things, right? But everyone that I looked at, it was more, the reality turned out to be greater than what the prediction was. >> It's the definition of a disruptive technology 'cause we're usually horrible at forecasting it, right? >> (laughing) Yeah, exactly, exactly, which is a good thing. >> So in that sort of center of the cloud, if we can call it that, explain to people why Veeam and not a higher level of abstraction. Like VMware for example, them tryin' to be sort of, even though they're not availability specialists, but they're pretty good at availability. And people are concerned about managers of managers. Why does Veeam win in that scenario? >> I think Veeam wins in that scenario given the breadth of our capability, given the breadth of what we do, thing number one, given the breadth of our ecosystem, number two. We don't have all the answers, but we have an amazing partner ecosystem that does. And number three, I would say the simplicity, right? This mantra that we have at Veeam of it just works, that's very, very valuable. I heard, you know just wandering around here, unsolicited. People don't know who I am when I'm walking with my badge off. And I've heard multiple times, they're not kidding when they say that it just works thing. That's something that we will never ever get away from, and that's a clear differentiator for us. We were talking, we did a breakout session the other day, Danny and I, and we were with a number of service providers, and they asked, we had these canonical examples of what we're doing. And they asked a few questions of why can't we do this? And Danny and I would look back and say, well you can do that, but it's not to the point where we have it yet where we say, it just works. There's a way to string it together. There's a way Veeam can solve that problem, but we need to continue to improve engineering in order to get it to the point where it just works. To make it that simple, elegant, and that's a huge differentiation. >> So the premise there is it's not a zero sum game, certainly between you and VMware because of the simplicity and the integration that you do with VMware. Very interesting dynamic going on in the marketplace. It's early days, but you guys are, I love the positioning. It's clean and it's focused. >> No, thanks, I'm glad because we love the feedback. It's something we work really, really hard at. Veeam is in a great period of transition, bringing Peter on, the leadership team that Peter's brought in. That's really, really important that we're able to communicate where we're going and how we position because we are so passionate about it. You want to make sure that the words come out, well, and that the messaging is proper, and that our strategy is locked on. >> All right, we'll give you the last word on VeeamON 2017, bumper sticker as the trucks are pullin' away... What does it say? >> I mean, I think it's an amazing event. It's my first VeeamON. I have been blown away by the energy and the information that we've shared. I think we have a lot of exciting things that are coming down the pike, and we just can't be thankful enough for the great participation and look forward to the future. >> All right, Paul Mattes, thanks for comin' on The Cube. >> Hey, thanks guys. >> All right, you're welcome. Keep it right there everybody. Stu and I will be back with our next guest at The Cube. We're live from VeeamON 2017 from New Orleans. We'll be right back. (upbeat jingle) (electronica jingle)

>> Voiceover: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube, covering OpenStack Summit 2017. Brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, Red Hat, and additional Ecosystem as support. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman joined by John Troyer. This is Silken Angle Media's production of the Cube at OpenStack Summit. We're the world wide leader in tech coverage, live tech coverage. Happy to welcome back to the program someone we've had on so many times we can't keep track. He is the creator of the term Pets versus Cattle, he is one of the OG of The Cloud Group, Randy, you know, wrote about everything before most of it was done. So good to see you, thank you for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> Alright, so Randy, coming into this show we felt that it was a bit of resetting expectations, people not understanding, you know, where infrastructure's going, a whole hybrid multi-cloud world, so, I mean you've told us all how it's going to go, so where are we today, what have people been getting wrong, what's your take coming into this week and what you've seen? >> Well, I've said it before, which is that the public clouds have done more than just deliver compute storage and networking on demand. What they've really done is they've built these massive development organizations. They're very sophisticated, that are, you know, that really come from that Webscale background and move at a velocity that's really different than anything we've seen before, and I think the hope in the early days of OpenStack was that we would achieve a similar kind of velocity and momentum, but I think the reality is is that it just hasn't really materialized; that while there are a lot of projects and there are a lot of contributors the coordination between them is very poor, and you know it's just not the, like architectural oversight that we really needed isn't there. I, a couple years ago at the Openstack Silicon Valley gave a presentation called The Lie of the Benevolent Dictator, and I chartered a course for how we could actually have more of a technical architecture oversight, and just that really fell on deaf ears. And so we continue to do the same thing and expect different results and I just, that's a little disappointing for me. >> Yeah. So what is your view of hybrid cloud? You know, no disagreement, you look at what the public cloud companies, especially the big three, the development that they can do, Amazon, a thousand new features a year, Google, what they can do with data, Microsoft has a whole lot of applications and communities around them. We're mostly talking about private cloud here, it was a term that you fought against for many years, we've had great debates on it, so how does that hybrid play out? Cause customers, they're keeping on premises. Edge fits into a lot of this too, so it's, there's not one winner, it's not a zero sum game, but how does that hybrid cloud work? >> Yeah so, I didn't fight against private cloud, I qualified it. I said if it's going to be a private cloud it's got to be built and look and smell the way that the public cloud was. Alright? If it's just VM ware with VM's on demand, that's not a private cloud. That was my position. And then in terms of hybrid cloud, you know, I don't think we're there yet. I've presented on this at many different OpenStacks, you can see it in the past, and I sort of laid out what needs to happen and that didn't happen. But I think there's hope, and I think the hope comes in the form of Kubernetes, and to a certain degree, Helm. And the reason that Kubernetes with Helm is very powerful is that Kubernetes gives us a computive traction, so that you don't care if you're on the public cloud, or you know OpenStack or Vmware or whatever, and then what Helm gives us is our charts, so ways to deploy services, not just software, and so what we could think about doing in the future is building hybrid cloud based off of Kubernetes and Helm. >> Yeah, so Randy since last time we talked you've got a new role, you're now with Juniper. Juniper had done a Contrail acquisition. You know, quite a few years back you wrote a good blueprint on one of the Juniper forums about the OpenContrail communities. So tell us a little bit about your role, your goals, in that community. >> So OpenContrail has been a primarily Juniper initiative, and we're going to press the reset button on the OpenContrail community. I'm going to do it tonight and call for people to sort of get involved in doing that reset, and when I say reset I mean, wipe the operating system, reload it from scratch, and do it really as a community, not just as a Juniper run initiative, and so people inside Juniper are very excited about this, and what we're trying to do is that we believe that the path forward for OpenContrail is ubiquitous adoption. So rather then playing for just the pieces that we have, which we've done a great job of, we want to take the world's best SDN controller and we want to make sure everybody uses it, because we think aggregate that's good for not only the entire community but also Juniper. >> So, love the idea of kind of rebooting the community in the open, right, because you have to be transparent about these sort of things. >> Randy: Yeah, that's right. >> What are the community segments that you would like to see join you here in the OpenContrail? What kind of users, what kind of companies would you like to see come in to the tent? >> Well anybody's welcome, but we want to start with all of our key stakeholders that exist today, so first one, and arguably one of the most important is our competitors, right so we're hoping to have Mirantis at the table, maybe Ericcson, Huawei, anybody. Cisco, hey come join the party. Second is that we have done really well in Sass and in gaming, and we'd like to see all of those companies come to the table as well, Workday, Symantech, and so on. The third segment is enterprises, we've done well in financial services, we think that that's a really important segment because they're leading edge of enterprises typically, and the fourth is the carrier's obviously incredibly important for Juniper, folks like AT&T, Direction Telecom, all those companies we'd love to see come to the table. And then that's really the primary focus, and then anybody else who wants to show up, anybody who wants to develop in Contrail in the future we'd love to have there. >> Well with open source communities, right, there's always a balance of the contributors and developers versus operators, and we can use the word contributors in a lot of roles. Some open source communities, much more developer focused, >> Randy: That's right. >> Others more operator focused, where do you see this OpenContrail community starting out? >> So where it's been historically is more of our end users and operators. >> I think that's interesting and an interesting twist because I think sometimes open source communities get stuck with just the people who can contribute code, and I'm from an operator community myself, >> Randy: Right. >> So I think that's really interesting. >> We still want all those people but I think what has happened is that when people have come in and they wanted to be more sort of on the developer side, the community hasn't been friendly to them. >> John: Okay. >> Randy: And so we want, that's a key thing that we want to change. You know when we were talking, to certain carriers they came and they said look, it's great you're going to do this, we want to be a part of it, and one of the things we'd like to contribute is more advanced testing around VMFs. And I just look at that and I'm just like that's what we need, right? Juniper is not, can't carry all the water on having, you know, sophisticated test suites for VMFs and more advanced networking use cases, but the carriers are deep into this and we'd love to have them come and bring that. So not just developers, but also QA, people who want to increase the code quality, the architectural quality, and the aggregate value of OpenContrail. >> Okay, Randy can you help place OpenContrail where it fits in this kind of networking spectrum, especially, there's open source things, we've talked about about VPP a couple times on theCube here. The joke for many years was SDN still does nothing, NFV solutions have grown, have been huge use case, is really where the early money for big deployments have been for OpenStack. Where does OpenContrail fit, where does it kind of compare and contrast against some of the other options out there. >> I'm going to answer that slightly differently. I've been skeptical about SDN overlays for a long time, and now I am helping with one of the world's best SDN overlays, and what's changed for me is that in the last year I've seen key customers of Contrail's, of Juniper's actually do something very interesting, right. You've got an SDN overlay, it's complex, it's hard to void, you got to wonder, why should I do this? Well I thought the same thing about virtualization, right, until I figured out, sort of what was the killer app. And what we've seen is a company, one of our customers, and several others, but one in particular I can talk about publicly, Riot Games, take containers and OpenContrail and marry them so that you have an abstraction around compute, and an abstraction around networking, so that their developers can write to that, and they don't care whether that's running on top of public cloud, private cloud, or in some partner's data center globally. And in fact they're going to talk about that today at OpenContrail days at 3:30, and are going to present a lot more details, and that's amazing to me because by abstracting a way and disintermediating the public clouds, you actually have more power, right. You can build your own framework. And if you're using Kubernetes as a baseline you can do a lot more on top of that computing network abstraction. >> You talked about OpenContrail days, again my first summit, I've actually been impressed by the foundation, acknowledging there's a huge landscape of open source and other technologies around there, OpenStack itself doesn't invent everything. Can you talk a little bit about that kind of attitude of bringing, I mean we talk about Kubernetes and that sort of thing, but all the other CNCF projects, monitoring, even components like SCD, right, we're talking about here at this conference. So, can you talk a little bit about how OpenStack can interact with the rest of the open source and cloud native at-large community? >> That's sort of a tough question John. >> John: Okay. >> I mean the reason I say that is like the origins of OpenStack are very much NIH and there has been a very disturbing tendency to sort of re-invent the wheel. A great example is Keystone, still to this day I don't know why Keystone exists and why we created a whole new authentic standard when there were dozens and dozens of battle-tested, battle-hardened protocols and bits of code that existed prior. It's great that we're getting a little bit better at that but I still sense that the origins of the community and some of the technical leadership have resistance to organizing and working with outside components and playing nice. So, it's better but it's not great, it's not where it should be. Really OpenStack needs to be broken down into a lot of different projects that can compete with each other and all run in parallel without having to be so tightly wound together. It's still disappointing to me that we aren't doing that today. >> Randy, wonder if you could give us a little bit of a personal reflection, you've been involved in cloud many years, we've talked about some of the state of it, where do you think enterprises are when they think about their IT, how IT relates to business, some of the big challenges they're facing, and kind of this rapid pace of change that's happening in our industry right now >> Yeah well the pressures just increase. The need to pick up speed and to move faster and to have a greater velocity, that's not going away, that seems to be like an incredible macro-trend that's just going to keep driving people towards the next event. But what I see is that the tension between the infra-structure IT teams and the line of business hasn't really started to get resolved. You see a lot of enterprises back into using DevOps as a way to try to fix the culture change problems but it's just not happening fast enough. I have a lot of concerns that basically private cloud or private infra-structure for enterprises will just not materialize in the way it needs to for the next generation. And that the line of business will continue to just keep moving to public cloud. All the while all the money that's being reinvested in the public cloud is increasing their capabilities in terms feature sets and security capabilities and so on. I just, I don't see the materialization of private cloud happening very well at this point in time and I don't see any trendlines that tell me it's going to change. >> Yeah, what recommendations do you give today to the OpenStack foundation? I know that you haven't been shy in the past about giving guidance as to the direction, what do you think needs to happen to be able to help customers along that journey that they need? >> I don't give any guidance to the OpenStack Foundation anymore, I'm not on the Board of Directors, and frankly I gave a lot of advice in the past that fell on deaf ears and people were unwilling to make the changes that were necessary I think to create success. And even though I was eventually proven right, there doesn't seem to be an appetite for change. I would say that the hard partition between the Board of Directors and the technical committee that was created at the outset with the founding of the Foundation has let to a big problem which is that there's simply business concerns that are technical concerns and there are technical concerns which are business concerns and the actual structure of the Foundation does not allow that to occur because that hard partition between them. So if people on Board of Directors can't actually tell the TC that they'd like to see certain technical changes because they're business concerns and Technical Committee can't tell the Board of Directors they'd like to see business changes made because they're technical concerns around them. And I think that's, it's fundamentally broken until the bylaws are fixed. >> So Randy beyond what we've talked about already what's exciting you these days, you look at like the serverless trend, is that something that you find intriguing or maybe contrary view on it, what's exciting you these days? >> Serverless is really interesting. In fact I'd like to see serverless at the edge. I think it would be fascinating if Amazon webservices could sell a serverless capability that was actually running in the mobile carriers edge. So like on the mobile towers or in essential offices. But you could do distributive computation for IOT literally at the very edge of the network, that would be incredibly powerful. So I am very interested in serverless in that regard. With Kubernetes, I think that this is the future, I think I've seen most of the other initiatives start to fail at this point. Docker Incorporated just hasn't made the progress they need to, hopefully a change in leadership will fix that. But it does mean that more and more people are gravitating towards Kubernetes and that's a thing because whereas OpenStack is historically got no opinion, Kubernetes is a much more prescriptive model and I think that actually leads to faster innovation, a greater pace of change and combined with Helm charts, I think that we're going to see an ecosystem develop around Kubernetes that actually could be a counterweight to the public clouds and really be sort of cloud agnostic. Private, public, at the edge, who cares? >> Randy Bias, always appreciated your very opinionated viewpoints on everything that are happening here. Pleasure to catch up with you as always. John and I will be back will lots more coverage here from OpenStack Summit in Boston, thanks for watching the Cube.

(upbeat techno music) >> Okay, welcome back to SiliconANGLE's Cube special two-day coverage of Mobile World Congress 2017. The hashtag is #MWC17. My next guess is Emily Mui who is with SAP Cloud, formerly SAP HANA Cloud. Great to see you. Thanks for coming in. >> Good seeing you again, John. It's been a ... Over a year. >> Since Sapphire, since the big news of ... >> That's right. >> The cloud team kind of really showing its stuff. >> Yes. >> That was called the the HANA Cloud. >> Yes. >> Now it's called SAP Cloud. The name changed. Give us a little bit more deeper ... Meaning behind the name, why the name changed, 'cause, you know, everyone knows what HANA is. >> Yes. >> HANA's got a great brand name. >> Right. >> Why drop HANA? What's the deal? >> Well, very good question. I like to talk about ... I've been with this product for over two years now, and I've really seen the evolution of the product. We have so many more capabilities than we did about three years ago, and a lot of it is customer-driven and demand-driven and market-driven. So what we realized is that yes, we have a lot of customers that wanted to do real-time decision, but then we also had a lot of customers that wanted to talk about IOT, use IOT. They want to talk about machine learning, they want to talk about analytics, so it's not just about HANA. So the name change really helps reflect the product and the evolution of this platform as a service that is now known as SAP Cloud Platform. >> So mainly what I hear you saying is that it's gone broader than that. So it's not ... HANA was like a Ferrari, something really good and was great at what it did ... >> [Emily] Yes. >> And that's all great, but the Cloud is more, right? >> Exactly. >> [ John] And what specifically more would you mean? Non-HANA solutions, or ... Greenfield opportunities? >> We have so many customers that do different things, and they're the ones that are helping us understand what is needed to be in the product. So there are many, and what we've learned is that there's a lot of business value that they're seeing from it, and they're the ones telling us that they're trying to be more agile, they're trying to optimize their business processes, and what's interesting is they want to become digital, and I'm not talking about the Ubers of the world, or the Airbnb. I'm talking about those traditional brick-and-mortar companies, manufacturers that are trying to figure out, how do I stay competitive? How do I get one step ahead of the game, and how do I use technology to do that? >> One of the things I love about Mobile World Congress is that it's like CES but in a different way. CES is hardcore early adopters. Yeah, Mobile World Congress is a lot of people who love the device news, yeah, so-and-so's got a new phone, 5G's going to be amazing, it's going to power autonomous vehicles. So, there's some glam and sex appeal inside with some of the tech, but it's almost like a meat and potatoes kind of show in the sense that it's mostly, it's a very business deal-oriented show. A lot of telecos trying to figure out their future, a lot of enterprises trying to figure out how things like network function virtualization works with mobile apps, so you're seeing kind of what I call the early adopter market be more of a CES, and Mobile World Congress be more of a ... Okay, how do you make it real? So this seems to be the topic that we're seeing across the hundreds of events that we go to at theCUBE a year, which is you have the Ubers and Airbnbs, the pioneers, the Facebooks. Then you have the settlers who come in and say, okay, I get it now. I understand what digital transformation means. Now I want to operationalize it. And Amazon Web Services has been so much success with their cloud, in the enterprise, of all places, now. So that's a tell sign that ... Real businesses ... >> [Emily] Yes. >> Not the unicorns, want to use the technology. >> [Emily] Right. >> Do you see the same thing, and can you give some anecdotal or specific examples of how a normal business gets SASSified, and what path does it take? >> So, a really good point and really good question. So one of the customers that is actually going to be at Mobile World Congress is Mapal, and they are a mid-size German precision tool manufacturer. And you think, how are they going to use the cloud and cloud technology to help them improve their business, and it's quite interesting, because they're trying to become digital. They are, you know, and this is ... Their way of doing business is not different from how anyone else is doing. They're trying to connect their suppliers, their customers together, and then be able to track what's happening with the tools that they're manufacturing. The whole life cycle of that tool, from the minute they actually start manufacturing to the point of selling it. But they're using technology to do that, right? And so they're using that SAP Cloud platformm creating the application, and then being able to track what's happening and then providing visibility to their customers, to everyone on the plant floor, to their suppliers, so they're connecting everyone together. >> You know, Emily, I was just talking with Jeff Frick, who runs theCUBE. We had our Silicon Valley Friday show last week, and we were talking about some of the conversations that we hear in cloud from some of the normal businesses out there, and things like microservices ... It's a geeky term, but microservices, containers, a lot of application conversations happening, so you hear that, and also you hear about integration. So these are the two hottest areas that we see, because basically, the SAP has been in the process business. We value chains and manufacturing, customer support, and CRM, ZRP, all that good stuff that goes on, but now, those are being completely shattered and reconfigured with cloud. So integration is top of mind, whether it's an IOT, internet of things or a new application. How does this all get threaded together? Can you share some insight into the SAP Cloud strategy, and what things do you offer to those customers, because that seems to be the critical decision point for most CXOs on the cloud SASSification. >> That's another good point, because we see a lot of customers trying to connect. They're trying to figure out how to get to the cloud, and no one is immediately jumping to it, so they've got different applications that they're trying to build out, but in order to do that, they have to connect their backend, right? And not all of it is cloud application. Most of it is on-premises, and so you've got legacy systems, you've got some SAP applications, you've got some other ... I shouldn't mention venture applications, and then they're trying to figure out how do you extend and create new applications? So how do you bring it all together? So integration is one of the key services that we provide. APIs, integration ... We've also invested in microservices technology. SAP's heavily looking into that and seeing how we can help those companies out there who want to leverage that type of technology. How do they bring all that together? Build small applications, connect everything together, and then build out an application that will help support their business. New opportunities for their customers to make their customer experience better, for their employees, and trying to track talent. So there are a lot of different use cases where ... >> What are the top three use cases that you're seeing there right now from your customer base, as they look at the HANA Cloud ... Well, it's not HANA Cloud. The SAP Cloud. >> Yes. >> New name. When they look at it, what do they gravitate to? What does the ... I mean, it's not all the same, but I mean, some low-hanging fruit. >> Right. >> Most people say, oh, test/dev, but probably in SAP. What is that low-hanging fruit for you guys, and where do you see more of these ... >> Integration. I mean, a lot of times, they start with integration, because they need to bring that together, but integration's kind of a means to an end. So, an example I can think of is we have a customer named Owens-Illinois. They're a glass manufacturer, another real business, right? It doesn't always sound so sexy, but the reality ... >> They're billion ... These are billion-dollar businesses out there ... >> Yes, exactly. >> That aren't called Uber, and no one's ever heard of them, but they're businesses, doing their thing. >> Exactly. And they need to be able to integrate their backend. They had this one specific requirement where they had to quickly meet the requirements of the Peruvian government, because they needed to create e-invoicing, and if they weren't able to bring together their backend systems, build out this application to do e-invoicing, their plant in Peru was going to get shut down. So, really good example ... >> [John] A critical path item. >> Exactly. Integration, and then being able to extend that. So those are really key examples of what our customers are doing, and then of course innovation, just coming up with something completely brand new. You know, there's so many examples of of those types of ... >> You know, you mention some of these traditional businesses, whether they're a glass company or a tooling company or whatever. This is really highlighting the big trend, internet of things, or IOT. AI kind of gets bolted into that 'cause it's got machine learning and using data and things. Is the digitization of business ... It's not just like IT and getting your email and things of that nature. Seeing the industrial, analog side of the business being digitized, so, with sensors ... You can't look any further than some of the more obvious consumer examples, the Tesla car, self-driving cars, drones, all have data. And so that's kind of a mental model for most folks, but it could be plant and machinery, it could be airplanes, flown off data ... This is the industrialization of this new era. >> Right. >> [John] Of data. >> Yep. >> That's connected to the internet. Therefore, it is an internet-connected device that needs to be managed. So this is a new use case that points to some of these businesses that are now digitizing. Is that a big part of the new IOT service, and how do you guys talk to that market, because some of it's not an IT market, they're like a normal business market, that might have SAP accounting software, or manufacturing software... >> Well, I mean, I think, like most companies and most people out there, everyone's a consumer, right? We talk about companies, but within those companies, we're talking about employees, people, and everyone has a phone, a smartphone of some sort, if not an iPhone, an Android device. There's so much data that's being generated. I could give an example of my teenage ... Just turned teenage boy, and I don't want him to carry cash around. He wants to go to Starbucks, so I make sure that he has an account set up. So it's easy. All that ... Just think about the way he's transacting. He walks into Starbucks, and he can pay. I can see how much he's paying, what he's buying, right? So there's so much data, and businesses are transacting in such a way that they've never had to do before. >> [John] Do you track his location? >> That too. I know when he's going in the wrong direction. He's on the wrong bus, right? So, there's so much data, and businesses have to figure out what's the best way to monetize that, to create opportunities from it, right? And to provide that experience for their customers and then come up with new solutions and new products and new services. >> That's a great parent story. I feel the same. My wife and I have the surveillance tracker, and that's part and parcel to us paying for the phone, so. >> [Emily] Right. >> Quid pro quo. If they want to pay for their own phone, they can be anonymous. But that brings us back to the customer. I want to get back to the customer impact, because the challenges are also opportunities, so what are some of the key challenges that your top customers face in the cloud. Because I think right now, it's pretty obvious that Mobile World Congress is kind of proving it's no branch of the cloud. It's really the business model behind it. Okay, I need to have my business model align with the value preposition for what we sell to customers, and how do we execute that operationally? >> [Emily] Right. >> So, take us through how you guys help customers through those challenges and turn them into opportunities. >> Well, first, John, we listen to what those challenges are. We've heard it over and over again. How do I ... How does the company become agile? How can they stay competitive? And you're always trying to stay one step ahead of your competition, and how else do you do it? So agility is really important, and when we talk about agility, we're not just talking about being able to create an opportunity quickly. It's how can you become flexible? How can you integrate your backend quickly? How do you support your new business requirements? If you're IT, how do you support your business partner very quickly? So it's about agility, and we provide the software that will help them do that. The cloud platform allows them to quickly integrate and extend those applications, and then of course, optimizing business processes. Who doesn't want to be efficient? I don't know how many businesses out there who wants to do things this old-fashioned, slow way. They're always trying to do it better and quicker. >> They got to preserve the old, but kind of bring in the new at the same time, it's a ... >> Right. So how do we help them optimize that? So they're asking us that all the time, and we're SAP, right? Our bread and butter, ERP, CRM, applications. We know business processes, so we understand what it takes to help them optimize those business processes. >> I didn't get a chance to ask Dan Lahl, who I interviewed earlier, about ... Who's Vice President of Product Marketing at SAP Cloud, your colleague. I didn't get to ask him this question, but this is important. Customers want to know ... That their partner, in this case, SAP Cloud, has a healthy ecosystem around it. Why is an ecosystem important, a healthy ecosystem important for customers, and then what does SAP Cloud doing to foster more innovation and openness and relevance in that ecosystem? >> Another really good question, because SAP has a history of building out an ecosystem for partners, and with SAP Cloud platform, what's great about it is it's technology that our partners are, today, leveraging and creating applications. So for those integrators, systems integrators who work really closely with our customers or their customers, they understand their businesses. They're very intimate and close with them. So they're developing applications that will help support their needs, and there are actually a lot of these partners. We have over a thousand applications that have been built by partners today. We have 600 partners that are building applications with SAP Cloud platform, and that's quite remarkable, considering the product has been around ... for just three, four years. Four years. So, it's really good news. Our partners are really invested in this technology. >> Can you comment on some of the big news that's happening at Mobile World Congress, specifically around this concept of an integrated solution set? So we see 5G was a big announcement by Intel. You're seeing autonomous vehicles as a showcase. You saw them at CES by the way, too ... It was an auto show there, too, but it allows people to really get a sense that it's not a stovepipe or a silo anymore of software stack solutions in that, you know, you need some bandwidth, you need some glue software, you need some third-party solution. You need to have things componentized or Lego-blocked kind of designed in, so this is kind of this new fabric. Could be IOT from machine manufacturing equipment, to wearable computers, all kind of coming in. That's kind of the new solution set. What's the vision for you guys on that? >> You know, at Mobile World Congress, we actually have a couple really cool demos. I should probably say they're not just demos, but they're actually exhibits. We've got a connected vehicle. We talk about the connected stadium, and when we talk about the connected stadium, we're talking about the whole experience of someone coming to an event and then being able to use their iPhone or their Android device and be able to buy their food, be able to understand what's happening and know what, you know, be able to go to their seats, and things like that. Help them through the whole experience with a connected vehicle. Be able to rent a car, and then be able to create an expense report, all on their phone. All of that needs integration. >> [John] It's a mashup of all kinds of stuff. >> Exactly. >> An accounting system is now part of feature of a stadium. >> [Emily] Right. >> A cool sports venue. >> Think about all those business processes that have to be integrated, and not just on the IT side, but all those business processes. So, like you said. >> The speed is critical. You have to have low latency ... >> Yes. >> And great software to make that work. >> A repository, right? To be able to collect all that data, streaming data, bring all that together, and then be able to analyze and then make decisions and then trigger actions immediately, so. >> All right, so, let's go through some of the cool highlights real quick. I know we have limited time. I want to get to it. In terms of the demos, you mentioned the stadium thing. What else do you have? Explain some of the demos, and kind of give a little bit of a quick synopsis of each demo, and the coolness of it. >> Yeah, so, definitely, like I mentioned, the connected stadium's going to be a cool factor. The connected vehicle. We're going to have a car there, so that's going to be fun to watch, so, the fact that it's all connected. It's all IOT. It's through your phone. It's rental. >> [John] What's going to be in the car demo? >> Lots. (both laugh) Through the iPad, you can see certain things. I don't want to give it all away. >> So go to the demo. If you're in Barcelona, we're here in Palo Alto. >> [Emily] We'll have examples of what exactly the ... >> But what is in the car, because, if you think about it, obviously, over the years, I've seen tons of demos on stage, certainly at Sapphire and the big events. And there's a lot of real-time dashboarding stuff. Is that some of the ... The glam and flair going on at the demos? >> That's some aspect, yep. Yes. So, I can't give anything away yet. We want people to watch when we're there, but yeah. So there's going to be some cool demos there. And then we're actually going to be showcasing ... Intel, who's also a sponsor, for this particular show. This time around. Yeah, so we're going to be showing a prototype of a really simple IOT example, where we're going to connect it with Google Home and Amazon Echo, and we're able to control this little prototype building, send elevators up and down, all through bot technology. >> So SAP as a company's moving from a back office powering 80% of the world's businesses to a much more front-end, agile solution provider with technology ... >> [Emily] Exactly. >> Using the cloud and big data. >> And digital. >> [John] And digital. >> Yeah. And all of that is because our customers are demanding it. They see it, they know that ... They trust that we can help them along the way, on the backend as well as on the integration front, and help them become digital. >> But this is the transformation you guys have been at HANA. The system of record, that's the database and software. System of engagement, that's free-flowing data, and now you have AI ... >> [Emily] Yes. >> Kind of automating a lot of that real-world examples, so that seems to be the same. Nothing changes on the SAP vision on that front. >> No, it's an evolution. So I think all the technology components are in place. So AI, predictive, machine learning, that's been around forever. It seems like it's the holy grail for marketers, for people in risk management, you name it. Everyone wants to be able to use analytics. >> It's all integrated. >> Yeah, and now you've got the database, you've got the in-memory database, you've got the streaming capabilities, you've got ... There's so many different components that are now ready and in place to make it actually a reality. So it's exciting. >> Emily Mui with SAP Cloud Group. Final words, somewhere that you'd like folks to walk away with from a customer standpoint and impact here, Mobile World Congress this week. What's the big story from your perspective? >> Big story is that we've got a great cloud platform solution that people are just learning more about, and they should learn more about it, because we've got all the components, all the services available to help them become a much more agile business, help them optimize all the business processes they have in place today and the ones they're looking to create, and then of course becoming digital. It's become a benefit for them. It's an actual benefit to become digital. >> The IOT really highlights your value proposition as a company in general, and the cloud opportunity is just right ... Right lockstep with that. Congratulations. Thanks for coming out. >> Thank you. >> Emily Mui, here inside theCUBE in Palo Alto breaking down and talking about Mobile World Congress. Special two days of coverage here at Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music) (bright instrumental music)