you live from Miami Beach Florida Biman 2019 brought to you by beam welcome back to Miami everybody this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage I'm Dave Volante with my co-host Peter burst we're wrapping up day two of v-mon 2019 and so we've been talking about cloud hybrid cloud data protection backup evolving to more of an automated data management environment can bring dollars here and he is in charge of really building out the VM ecosystem that he's the vice president of global alliance architecture at VM Kent great to see you again thanks for coming on yeah thanks Dave preciate so the ecosystem is evolving you know you're in a competitive marketplace but one of the things that differentiates Veeam is you know billion dollar company and people want to do business with your customers and so the ecosystem keeps growing and growing and you guys have some you know blue chip names at the top of your sponsor list we do a good job but you're not done yet so not at all and I think Dave you know it's it's really great to see how v-mon has evolved and you know in our partner ecosystem you know we have you know you talked about us hitting a billion dollars you know we rat marinelle's we hit 350,000 customers that customer number is a huge asset for us when we talked to our partners you know that is something that they're all trying to tap into right they love you know and our customers are really passionate and we have partners that come to us and they say hey look you know and that you know the bigger partners than us and they're saying hey will you please work with us will you please you know we want to do deeper integration because our customers you know are saying we're Veeam customers and and you you know you know mister partner you have to go work with teams so that so that our solutions will work better together so it's a it's a great asset to us yeah and it's it's evolved since you know it's just certainly just the first Vemma and I was at the very first one I think was we were talking was at the Aria whatever it was five years ago so so you know ecosystem is I think Jason Buffington was quoting Archimedes today and you know livre and and that ecosystem is is you know a huge opportunity for growth ok so let's get into it well first of all I want to ask you if time was interesting global alliance architecture yes so we're not talking technical architecture necessarily we're talking about what the architecture of the ecosystem or both yeah so some money you know my role my responsibilities and what my team looks after is everything technical related to our partners so veem we're a hundred percent is fee and you know ratmir and aundrea to co-founders and leaders to the company you know that that's something that they take to heart and it's something that's actually really valuable when we talk to our partners is we don't really overlap very much especially with the infrastructure partners that we have and so you know my job is to take the great products we have and make it work really well and go deep with our partners so create value with these partners there's sometimes their product integrations storage snapshot integrations we announced the width beam program two weeks ago we are together at that next with the rest of your team talking about Nutanix mine with theme which is a secondary storage integrated solution so all of those that's all part of my roles so solution architecture and product integrations you know through our partner ecosystem which which is very broad it stretches from storage partners to platform partners to other is feeds like Oracle SAT even healthcare partners yeah Peter we were excited about the width Eames stuff dat who is with Fein yours with Vemma yeah so my team is responsible for the overall architecture with Vemma it's it's really a joint collaboration within within Veeam so we have an R&D investment that's building the intellectual property that powers the you know the system under the covers my team's responsible for the broader architecture how we bring it together how we bring it to market through the channel right and and and how we bring it to our customers and that whole experience so my team is is intimately involved in that so a lot of people talk about inflection points in the industry and clearly were in the middle one way of describing it is that the first 50 years were known process unknown technology we never gonna do accounting we knew are going to do HR where you were going to do blah blah blah blah blah and there was mainframe client-server with a lot of other stuff but the whole notion of backup and restore and data protection grew up out of the complexity in the infrastructure as we move forward it's interesting because it's known technology it's gonna be cloud relatively known yes but what's interesting is we don't know what the processes are gonna be we don't know what we're gonna automate we don't know how we're going to change the business it's all going to be data driven which places an enormous burden on IT and specifically how they use data within the business so I'm gonna ask your question it's a long preamble but I'm asking the question I asked you out in there too and this is not the test but the question is look as we move forward as data is used to differentiate a business it suggests that there's going to be greater specialization in how data use is used which could and should lead to greater specialization in the role that veem and related technologies will play within the business and the question then is is the with veem approach a way to let allow innovation to bloom so that specialization can be accommodated and supported within the VM ecosystem yeah so yeah Peter good question and so I tell you that the short answer is yes the longer answer is I wasn't shorter than the short answer is yes the longer answer is it doesn't have to be with Veeam but really our goal and and what we want to empower our partners and so really the goal of with Veeam is hey we're already working across our partner ecosystem and we you know we work with with the likes of NetApp and HP and pure and Nutanix and you know and all the platform providers as well public clouds you know our goal is is to make VM ubiquitous and drive better value to our customers and through our partners right we need partners no matter what when we're working with a customer there's always there's always a workload we're protecting and we need a place to land our backup so no matter what we're always working with one or two partners in a deal and sometimes it's multiple because then you TR out to cloud storage and in other places you know with with veem what we're trying to do is is really simplify that process for customers and so make that process from the buying experience all the way through the delivery and the deployment and the management and the ongoing management day 1 and day 2 operations we want to make that all seamless and give them higher value now one thing we're looking to enable and by adding api's with veeam is we want to leverage the strengths of the partners we have and so you know I often end up in these discussions because we have a broad partner ecosystem we've already announced - with VM solutions we have a third that you know we did last year with Cisco that's in the market that's sort of similar in nature and we're gonna add more and you know the question our partners even ask us is you know you already got three of them why are you gonna add another one you know how am I going to differentiate and the answer is you know they differentiate with their own technology and and the idea is we have these open API so that they can they can build their own solutions they fit different markets and fit different use cases some are small small customer solutions some are enterprise but our goal is to enable them to be creative and how they build on top of eeeem but but have you know Veen be a core part of that solution rather so so it is a core part of solution yes apply to specific customer absolutely okay so the term seamless always you know triggers me in a way because seamless is like open right it's evolved over time and so what was seamless you know 10 years ago wasn't really seamless in today's terms so when you talk about seamless we're talking about if I understand it deep engineering right getting access to primitives through api's and creating solutions that are differentiable as a function of your partner's core value proposition and obviously integrating with meme with 350,000 customers so you're now in the ball game with with Veen customers so so so talk about the importance of api's and how that actually gets done yeah and seamless to whom to the partners to the customer to ultimately it's to the customer boom but but but there's got to be an ease of integration as well with the partners and I'd like to understand that better yeah absolutely so I'll give you an example of something we've done in the past that's that we're trying to model this with veem program after so but a year and a half as part of our 9.5 update 3 we introduced what we call universal storage API and we've talked about our version 10 there were five core features of version 10 when we announced that two years ago in New Orleans you're the first time you were you were with us at a v-mon and one of those was Universal storage API and what that means is you know we help we help our partners we help our customers ultimately by way of our partners on the primary side of integrating storage snapshots with vmware vsphere and so when we when we go to backup a vm we take a snapshot of that vm and with this with our storage snapshot integration we then take a storage snapshot of the volume that vm is on and we can release that VM where a snapshot very quickly so it's very low touch and low impact on the environment well we we introduced this API so that we could scale we had we had done our own storage snapshot and integration with you know call it 5 or 6 storage vendors over the previous seven years eight years right in the last year and a half we've added seven right and that's the scale we're talking about and allowing our partners to build the storage snapshot plug-in together right so we have a program we invite them into that program we collaborate on it they develop the plug-in we jointly test it and we release it and so we're trying to sort of take and that's been very successful as I said eight years five or six storage snapshot vendors year and a half we've done like another seven or eight so it's been very successful and we have more that are in queue so we'll be talking about more of these as time goes on in the very near future with the width beam program we're looking to do something very similar it's gonna be an invite-only program realistically the secondary storage partner is this the universe is probably 20 the logical universe for us is probably 10 to 12 so it's not going to be huge but it's gonna be impactful for our partners and so we'll invite them into the program we'll have an agreement of us working together we'll jointly develop and test it and we'll bring it to market together at the end of the day you know both our partner and veem we have our name on it and I'm sure you heard from rat mayor and Danny and others right we have our NPS score which we really really value and it's really high it's best in the industry and if we're putting our name on a solution in the market we also want to make sure that we're working on it together in it you know it really goes through the rigor of what it takes to bring a Vemma solution tomorrow actually you know what nobody's talked this week this week about the NPS core if they maybe they have in the keynote so that it might have missed it but well I was in the keynotes what is it today well yeah so so an NPS score is basically you know from from 0 to 100 it's it's you know we'll a customer reference you or recommend you right right and so ours is 73 ok the industry the the general average in in in our space is about 28 to 30 so we're about 2 and a half times that that's core you know and that's in Frank Zubin said to me one time it's easy to have a high NPS core if you're a one product company but you're not a one product company no no we've we've evolved substantially I mean you know we've we've added agents to cover physical workload we've we've added cloud support we've added other applications we've added veem availability Orchestrator we've added beam backup for office 365 we have VA C which is the availability console for our service providers which has cloud connected it's a very broad portfolio everything comes back to beam backup and replication as the flagship foundation but we have all these other products that that now help our customers solve their problems the reason we were so excited about this with wid theme is this notion of cloud and hybrid cloud and you talk about programmable infrastructure you really have been pushing just bringing the cloud experience to your data talking about that for a while and part of that has to be infrastructure as code and it can't really do that without open api's and this sort of seamless integration well the cloud is testing us with you as well the cloud is a really an architecture for how you're going to distribute work as opposed to how you can centralize Handicap I think for a long time we got it wrong it's all presumed and it's all gonna go to the center we're in fact when you get that level of standardization and common conventions and the technologies are built to make a tea that much easier it allows you to distribute the work a lot more effectively get the data closer to where the works going to be done and that is enormous implications for how we think about things but it also means that we when we talk about bringing the cloud to the data that the data has to be there the data services that make that data part of a broader fabric have to be there and it all has to be assured so that the system knows something about where the data is and what services can be applied to it in advance of actually moving the workloads that suggests ultimately that the technology set that veem is offering is going to evolve relatively rapidly so the whole notion of you know with V today for secondary storage but I could see that becoming something that you guys take two new classes of data service providers pretty quickly I don't want you to pre-announce anything but what do you think yeah Peter I think I think you're really on to something and when we when we sort of look at the worlds right the infrastructure world were in you know and and certainly some of our partners would draw a slightly different picture but we see Veen as as the common thread in the middle right because at the end of the day and I think you mentioned it as you were just talking there you know when we talk about hybrid cloud right we see now our customers especially commercial and enterprise and large enterprise customers it is it is a very heterogeneous environment it's multiple hypervisors different storage platforms it's multiple cloud providers because they're picking best to breed for the workload and so they need a platform that's got really breadth in depth of coverage and so the the one common thread we weave between there is Veeam right so if if we are that data protection layer as I mentioned before you know we're in the middle we're protecting a primary workload and we're writing our data to a secondary workload but in the middle is Veeam and so that workload we're protecting on Prem cloud secondary data centers theme is the thread in between there you can move that data around and wherever that is we can make use for now I'll give you a good example today you know let's say we're protecting a visa or workload on Prem right we back that up to it to assist them locally so we can have fast restore but ultimately we tear that out bean cloud tier capacity tear tear that's AWS so we can we can actually recover workloads in Atos one or two we have directory store which would take a backup from on-prem and directly move it there for DRAM migration purposes or we can simply consume that that backup that's now up in the cloud because Veen backups are self-describing we can lose the system on Prem and recover it so your point about making the data close to your workload with with veeam in the middle we enable that for our customers regardless of where they want to go yeah so we think that that's going to change the mindset from protection to assurance so assure your data is local and then it's the right data it's Integris and all the other things and then ultimately you know move it and back it up to some other site so it's but it's a subtle switch it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out this is obviously well and as we talked about as you need to begin to protect things like containers like functions that come and go super quickly assurance has more meaning because there's the security threats and if you can help solve those problems through your partners through automation spinning containers up and down making it harder for the bad guys to you know a target a specific container raising essentially the cost so lowers their ROI that is a new game yeah and and I'll call out one thing a rat mayor I thought did a really good job on stage yesterday in his keynote he popped the slide which talked about the universal storage API and with theme and it had all our partners sort of around that you know that that I think he Illustrated our strategy which is hey we're focusing on the core parts of backup and replication and helping the core parts the data protection we're gonna partner with everything else that's adjacent to that we're not going to go solve maybe some of the security problems ourselves we're gonna enable some hooks secure restore maybe as an example we've announced you know in the technology keynote yesterday we announced a new API that allows partners to come in and crack open Veen backups and take a look at them one of the things could be deep inspection so you know our strategy and our goal is really to be open to our partners so that they can come in and add value and again our our goal for our customers is give them choice so give them choice of to choose best-of-breed solutions don't go do it and say hey you got to go use partner a you know hey we're gonna we're gonna have an API that others can build to and you go choose your best debris partner or your platform technology choice well and with 350,000 customers you've got a big observation space so guys have always been customer driven can give you the last word on vivant 2019 you're our last guest then we're gonna wrap with a little analysis on our end but give us the bumper sticker yeah I think the bumper sticker is hey you know we've you know from a business perspective you know we hit a billion dollars in bookings we have hit 350,000 customers the Innovation Train is really moving our Veen clouds here that we announced with update four earlier this year has gone way beyond our expectations and and we're looking to continue to build on that momentum so we're just super excited you know we if I'm the closer I'll say thanks to all of our sponsors we have a lot of great sponsors and on the cloud side on the on the Alliance partners side the channel side you know it's just it's it's a testament to where we are as a companies yeah and you're building out a great ecosystem congratulations on that and and good luck going forward and we'll see you around at the shows it's great it's great to have you guys right thank you all right you're welcome all right keep it right there everybody Peter and I went back to wrap right after this short break and watching the cube live from V Mon 2019 from Miami we'll be right back

>> live from Orlando, Florida It's the que covering Accelerate nineteen. Brought to you by Ford. >> Welcome back to the Q. We air live in Orlando, Florida At Fortinet Accelerate twenty nineteen Lisa Martin with Peter Burst. Pleased to welcome back one of our alumni on ly the CEO and founder of Fortinet. Kensi. Ken, thank you so much for joining Peter and me on the Cuban. Thanks for having the Cube back at accelerate. >> Yeah, I love to be here again. Yeah, Thank you. >> So, so quick by the numbers Can Kino. This morning was awesome. Loved the music and all the lights to start four thousand attendees from forty countries. You guys now have about three hundred eighty five thousand customers globally. Your revenue and F eighteen was up twenty percent year on year. I could go on and on. Lots of partners, lots of academies, tremendous growth. Talk to us about in the evolution of security. Where are we today and why is supporting that so well positioned to help customers dramatically transform security >> First world happy to see all the partner of the cosmos were come here. And also we keep him like every year we in this program also is a great program on another side. Like I say, securities of wherever dynamic space you need to keep in landing on We see more and more people come here s o that's we'LL be happy to discuss in the new technology the new market opportunity and also the new trend on DH Also What we see is a the space is so old and I'm making Also we see a lot of people keeping come here for the training for other sins And also I love the music make make us feel young again So But I >> think one of the reasons why security is so dynamic it is you don't for example, in the server world you don't have, you know you know gangs of bad guys running around with baseball bats trying to eat your servers. In the security world, you have people trying to enable the business to be able to do more, but also people constantly trying to tear the business down. And that tension drives a lot of invention and requires a lot of innovation. How is that changing? We're driving some of the key trends and networks and network security >> Yeah, that's where like I presented this morning. Wait, You see, with more device connected, Actually motive, I Some people being connect today and eventually in few years we'LL be calm. Motive eyes on people. There also is all the five G or icy went technology you can make is connected faster, more broadly reached. And then there's a more application More data also come to the Internet. So that's all you quist tax servants. There's all additional risk We'LL have all this connection. We have all these data transfer to all these different diversity on people. So that's all security business, right? Because secure to have the address where they now walking cannot really are dresses above the connection above the speed. So we have our dressing a content layered application layer the device user layer all regionally or country lier s O. That's making the security always keeping foreign faster than the night walk in the night. He spending on the study become the biggest sector United ninety idea spending environment. That's also one time we just feel security also need a study merger convert together is not working because no longer oh now will get only kind of the speed I can activities secure, canniness and bob. They had to be working together to smart rain route. In a data, put a low risk area tow without a polluted like transfer. All this conscience on that way, see, is the two industries that emerged together. That's where Koda security driven that walk are the arson about how this kind of we see today the mobile on cloud started replacing the traditional PC, right? So about going forward, the wearable divine's all the glass and we award study replaced the mobile. You don't have the whole mobile phone the season, while they're probably in your eyes on the same piled. A smart car that's my home, the wise every single connecting way Are you walking? Like if I walking here our sins related my information on power for me so I don't have to carry innocents, so that's going for you. A few years we'LL be happy. First, security will be part of this space. How this will be going forward contrato today The mobile the cloud way also have some discussion about that one. So we need to prepare for all this because that's how fortunate being founded. That's how our culture about generation, about long career advancement. So that's where we want to make sure the technology the part already for this chance. That's what gave the use of the past benefit of leverage of connection. Same time, lower the risk >> organ has taken an approach in the marketplace of Let Me Step Back. Put it this way. We all talk about software to find everything in virtual ization, and that's clearly an important technology and important trend. Ford has taken advantage of that as well, but the stuff doesn't run. All that's offered stuff doesn't run on hamsters. It runs in hardware. Unfortunate has made taking a strategic position, and it's been a feature of your nearly twenty year history to continuously invest in hardware and open up the performance aperture. Increase the size of the bucket of that hardware. How is that? Both altered your ability to add additional functionality, get ahead of the curve relative to competition, but also enabled your ecosystem to do a lot of new and interesting things that we're not seeing on other another network security companies? >> Yeah, that's why I totally agree with you. Israeli howto unable the past ecosystem for everybody playing a space for the partners of his provider, carrier enterprise, on the photo leverage technology benefit. More broadly, Cosmo base is very important. That's where we feel like a sulfur cloud. They do study in kind of a change, a lot of sense. But you also need a balance among clothes. Suffers were important, but also the hardwork also very important. All right, so that's the hybrid. More post the power on the sulfur. Both the cloud at age both have equal equal weight. Equally important, going forward How to leverage all this post is also also kind of very important for the future growth of future trend Another So you also can see like a mission. Uh, will you have the immersive device? We'LL have some, like security applied in tow Storage in that work in small Sadie, you also need a bad lie. Security be part of it. No, just security. I don't cop as a cost of additional Whatever process are all since, But you know, once you make it secure to be part ofthe like we mentioned a security for even that Working security driven like a future like a wearable device or the other since without it will be huge ecosystem going forward. That's where is the chip technology you can. Bad. We just saw Fervor is also additional servants. We can all walk in together. So that's where we want to look at the whole spectrum. There, make sure different part all can walk in together on also different technology. No, just limiting some part of it. I make sure the faux technologists face hole. Attack service can be a poor tag. And also we can leverage for the security of the high table addition. Opinions? You know, this conducted a war. >> This is what you're calling the third generation of Security? >> Yes, there's more. You for structure security. That's the whole security compared tto first dinners and second generation is our security just secured himself right. So you don't involve with other night walking star recharge the infrastructure? No, because Because they view everything you inside the companies secure You only need a guard at the door This Hey, who has come here? Anything inside I'll find But with today all the mobile pouring on Devise all the data everywhere Go outside the company you need to make sure security for all of the data. So that's the new trend. So now the border disappeared. So it doesn't matter. You said the company or not, is no longer secure anymore because you can use the mobile, the access rights o outside. All people can also come here with data also go out. So that's where the infrastructure security neither give or imposing their work inside on points. I under the cloud of the age and all this a different device on the diversity. Why? So you're even your mobile phone? Hi! Still working together. So it's a much bigger before structure. Much bigger are traceable space. Now that's making secure, more exciting. >> Well, we have gotten used over the past twenty years of building applications that operate on somebody else's device, typically a PC or mobile phone. And we've learned how to deal with that. You're suggesting that we're actually going to be integrating our systems with somebody else's systems at their edge or our edge on a deeply intimate level and life and death level. Sometimes on that, obviously, place is a real premium on security and networking whatnot. So how does the edge and the cloud together informed changes and how we think about security, how we think about networking, >> That's where, like I think age and a cloud they each complaint. Different role, because architecture. So the cloud has a good C all the bigger picture. They're very good on the provisioning. There could archiving cloud, also relatively slow, and also you can see most of data generated and age. That's where, whether you're immersive device, all your mobile, whatever ages were we called a digital made physical, and that's all the people in Device Connect. So that's where, like a seven eighty percent data, Carrion a probably never traveled to the club. They need a processed locally. They also need have the privacy and autonomy locally and also even interactive with other eighty vice locally there. So that's what we see is very important. Both the cloud on age security can be addressed together and also celebrity of architecture, that I say the cloud is good for detection so you can see a something wrong. You can cry the information, but the age new market on the provisions, because prevention need to be really time needed back, moreover, quickly because a lot of application they cannot afford a late Nancy like where do the V I. R. Even you slow down in a microsecond. Pickle feet is the famous signals. You also see the also drive a car. If you react too slow, you may hear something right the same scene for a lot of harder. Even you. Commerce, whatever. If you not response picking out within a half second, people may drop the connection. The memos are married, so that's what the late and see the speed on DH that's making the club play there at all into all this management on their age, playing hero in a really kind on Barlow. Ladies, you're really kind reaction there. So what? That's where we see the both side need to play their role on important transposed market. You said that just a one cloud, which I feel a little bit too hard right now. Try to cool down a little bit of our same age. Also, we see a very important even going forward what I been a bad security in age >> with this massive evolution that you've witnessed for a very long time. As the head of forty nine last nearly twenty years EJ cloud. How how dramatically technology changes in such a short period of time. I'm curious. Can How has your customer conversations evolved in terms of, you know, ten years ago were you talk ng more to security professionals? And now are you talking more to the C suite? As security is fundamental? Teo Digital transformation and unlocking tremendous value in both dollars in society impact has that conversation elevated as security has changed in the threat landscape has changed. >> Yeah, they do go to the board level, the CEO level now compared to like a ten, twenty years ago. Probably gaiety people maybe see so level, because security become probably the most important part of it. Now they keep you got a high high percentage that ikey spending there because when we connect everything together, we can make all the people all this business together to be on the connection. That's where security handled up, right? So that's where we see security studying kind of more. You hope me more important now. But another side, also the space also changing over quick. So that's where we always have to learn it. Woman engaged with Cosmo partner here. That's where this event is about way keeping less into what's the issue they have, how we can help the dress. All these security really the usual. Some even be honest security. Go to like a connection you for structure, some other, like architectural design, whatever their penis model there. So that's all we're very important on. Like I said, security space we need to keep in Lenny every day. Even I spent a few hours a day to Lenny. I You don't feel ready? Can K child? Oh, they >> said, It's a very dynamic world security world. >> You have our dynamic, the knowledge base, the technology refreshed quickly. Way always had to be Len have training. That's where he also see Try to position forty Niners lending company. So that's where we all for the because training program and all the train is afraid for partner for customers. All this kind is really it's a big investment. That's where a lot of people say, Oh, how can you? You've asked more in the training. You said of all come better. You must move your marketing. I say journeys of over a long term benefit. When people get trained, they also see Hey, what's the pants technology? So that's where a lot of organization, a lot of investment, really looking for. How five years here come benefit of space can benefit. The car's my partner, so that's all we see. Training's far long time measurement see modern technology. >> So can you've talked in the keynote? You've talked in the Cube about how networking security come together on how, as they move forward, they're going in form. Or they'LL have an impact on business and have an impact and other technologies. There's a lot of technology change when you talk to network in professional or even your own employees. What technologies out there do you think are going to start impacting how security works? Micro services containers? Are there any technologies that Ford that's looking at and saying, We gotta watch that really closely and that networking professionals have to pay more attention to. I >> have to say pretty much all of them, right? So all these Michael, all this contender technology, micro segmentation, according computing, the immersion lending all this is all very important because security has deal with all this different new technology application on like it was all this a huge, competent power raised on the cost lower ball corner computer. And maybe some of the old technology may not really work any more for some additional risks. Like where the equipment can be break by cute from the computing or some moderate eventually can also kind of take over. All this country is always we tryto tryto learn, tryto tried. Okay, chop every day. Hey, that that's what I say is that's so exciting. Keep you wake up, Keep your Lenny everyday, which I enjoy. But at the same time, there's a lot of young people they probably even even better than us to catch the new technology. >> Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no. >> Yeah. Somehow, my kids can play the fool much greater than mere. That's always the way >> we want to thank you so much for joining Peter and me on the kid this afternoon for having the Cube back at forty nine. Accelerate and really kind of talking about how you guys are leading in the space and we're gonna be having more guests on from Fortinet. And your partner's talking about educate ecosystems and technology that you talked about in your keynote. So we thank you again for your time. And we look forward to a very successful day here. >> Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. You enjoy all this programme for many years. Thank you. >> Excellent. We love to hear that. We want to thank you for watching the Cube for Peter Burress. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube. >> Thank you.

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering. Inform Attica World 2018 Not you. Buy. Inform Attica. >>Welcome back and run. Live here in Las Vegas at the Venetian Cubes coverage of In From Attica, World 2018. I'm John for the coast to queue with by host the next two days. Peter Barrister, head of research for Wicked Bonds with an Angle and the Cube. Our next two guests from Deloitte. Leo Cabrera, who's senior manager. And Rajeev Krishna, who's the specialist leader on the engineering side. CDO side guys, Thanks for joining us. Thank you, John. Thank you, Lloyd. The leader in a lot of areas, absolutely doing a lot of cutting edge stuff from c'mon, the Blockchain crypto side tax side also in the I t side. You guys have been in a great top customers here in data in from Atticus, leading the charge, looking good with the trends. But the cloud is here. Cloud scale ecosystems developing. How do you guys see in from Attica? Evolving. Going forward, Mostly great messaging. But they still got customers out there that have sold stuff. They want to bring in cloud native new data. What's what's the prospects were in from Attica. >>Foreign Formica, Saudi lawyer. We have this nuanced article data advantage and basically would consider the inflection point between what we call in just 3.0, industry for point. And it's basically now we want to get value out of the data and our data advantage strategy Focus on three pillars. They have engineering wilderness and enable men for as Informatica Isa great component and a great supporter in each of these areas. Right, So, through these study we offer video service is we offer data governance. Studio chief did offer sheet state all of it. Yeah, on. And we partner with Informatica to profile the data to understand what will be the points in which we can find value over the data on off course with the new enterprise catalog to tool to do better governance for our clients. >>I want to get under the hood. I see the catalog is getting a lot of great reviews. Some people think that this is the next big wave in data management, similar to what we've seen in other ways like well, what? Relational databases and every way that comes on cap this catalogue New kind of catalogs emerging. What's your view on this? Is it away? Visit like recycled catalog, is it? >>So get a cataloguing and data. Curation has bean going on for decades, right? But it's never gained traction on, and it's never given Klein's the value because it was so manual takes tons of effort to get it right, right. So what inform Attica is done, which is absolute breakthrough? This embed a i into their enterprise data can log into which kind of accelerates the whole data. Cataloging on basically gives them gives climbs. The value in terms of cutting down on there are packed in terms of how many people, how many data students you need to put together >>So they modernize that. Basically, they exactly all the manual stuff put automation around and put some software to find around at machine learning. Is that kind of the secret to their success? >>Absolutely. And Down Delight has been partnering with Informatica for quite a while. In fact, we are one of the few companies that have a seat on the product advice report s o what we see from the marketplace we cannot feed into in from Attica to say, Hey, here's what you need to build into your products, right? So we be doing that with their MDM solution. For example, we have what we have. Articles indium, elevate. So we build machine learning into their MP and platform and offer. That's a solution similarly, and for America has built the clear platform into their E. D. C s. Oh, that's absolutely driving Valley for clients. And we have a lot of clients that are already leveraging >>a lot of risk and platforms tools, right? I see a lot of data stuff out there that's like like a feature, not a platform, that these guys got a platform, right? So But now the world's changing the cloud. How do you guys take that data advantage program or go to a CDO and saying, Look, you gotta think differently around the data, protect you explain your view on that. >>For us, data is now the center of everything, right? So any business who want to remain competitive in the future needs to get into entire end twin management of the data, getting the value of off data and also understanding what is the data coming from and what is the day they're going to write off course is studded with all the regulations. And now GDP are coming on Friday. It is a big, you know, pusher for companies to realize that over. If >>you have a big party on Friday, a big party or is this what you Katie was a big part. Nothing happened. So you're never mean GDP. Are you guys have a lot going on there? I mean, this is the center of the conversation. >>Yeah. I mean, we do have a lot of clients who need to be compliant on GDP are on informatica is one of the tools that have already pre established the policies, so you can quickly determine where is the data that GPR is gonna be monitoring and looking for compliance on So rather than doing it from a scratch, right? So it takes a lot of it >>for Let's build on this a little bit. So when we talk about different as John was saying, different generations of data management technology, we're coming out of a generation was focused on extract, transform and load where every single application or every single new analytics application wasn't you identify the source is uniquely you build extractions unique. You'd build transformations, you build load scripts. Uniquely all that stuff was done uniquely. Now what we're saying is catalog allows us to think to move into a re use world. We've been reusing code fragments and gets and all these other things for years. In many respects, what we're talking about is the ability to bring a reuse orientation inside the enterprise to data. Have I got that right? You got it >>right. Two minutes. But the most important parties how to get value out of that, right? Because they did >>manage to get value out of using >>it more exactly And understanding, You know, how can improve your operations or you know, the bottom line, or reduce the risk that you have in your data, which is basically CPR is about, >>and one other Salin point is on very scene for America bringing values their completeness of mission. Right. So when you talk about gdp are you need different aspects, right? You need your data integration. Whether it be through cloud around. Promise you need get a governor on top of what you're cataloging, right? You need security data security. Right? So it all comes together in the hole in dramatic solutions. And I think that's very see value is supposed to like pocket pockets >>of guys. I gotta ask you a question. We've seen many ways. I think it's a big way this whole date away. But you guys, you have a term called industry four point. Oh, is what is industry but the Deloitte term. But what is that? What is industry four point? Oh, me. Can you define that? >>You wanna take that door? >>Yeah, sure. So we've seen, you know, revolutions in terms off technology and data on. We've seen people going from kind of the industrial revolution to the dark. Amira, What? Three terms in the street? Four point off where data is annoying, right? So data is an acid that needs to be completely leverage. Not just you look a reactively and retrospectively like How did we do? Right? And not even just for predictive analytics. We've seen that for a few years now. It's also about using data to drive. This is value, right? So are there new ways to monetize data? Are there new ways to leverage data and grow your business? Right? So that's what Industry four. No, no is about. >>That's awesome. Well, we got a lot of things going on here. Thanks for coming on. The Cube had a couple of questions. Got a lot of dishes going on. That preparing for the big opening of the Solutions Expo Hall. We're in the middle of all the action. You're out in the open, accused. What we do. We go out in the open final question, eyes around the CDO. Who should the chief date officer report to the C I O board? What >>do you >>guys seeing? Because the CDO now picking a strategic role if Davis the new oil. That data is the fourth wave of innovation that we've seen over centuries. What does that mean? For the chief Data Officer? More power? Why'd you report to the C i o? Why is the CEO reported the Chief Data officer? What's your take? >>Traditionally our clients in the past, where the mandate for the studios were more in the data governess, right? As of today, it is going more into enablement the data, right? So more than Analytics case. Still, service is so well seen clients going from the studio moving from under the CEO in tow, the CEO and into the CMO in some cases, more about marketing. However, at the lawyer, our proposition is that companies should do a big shift and funded the new data function as a totally new vertical next to H. R next to finance right, which have his own funding and the CDO being the leader of that function, reporting directly to the CEO or >>enablement side CEO handling much of three things engineering, governance and enablement correct. So the CEO will handle Engineering Dept. Which not just its engineering, full stack developers, possibly our cloud native developers. Governance could come into policy, normal stuff. We've seen enablement more tooling, democratization of things. >>Yeah, yeah, >>yeah. I mean, what we've been seeing right in the real world, Liss, you have, for example, finance transformation that CIA full heads, right? So there's a lot of traction at that point to kind of bring the company together. But then that soon fizzles out. Sometimes you have, ah, the CMO bringing on and marketing campaign and, you know, analytics initiative, right? There's a lot of traction. Then it fizzes out. So you need somebody at the chief data officer of the C suite level to maintain that traction that moment, Um, in order freed value. >>But it seems the key issue is someone who is focused on data as an asset generating competitive returns on data as an asset because and the reason why it could be the CEO, it could be somebody else. Historically, an i t. The asset was the hardware on the argument here is that the asset is no longer the hardware now the data data. So whoever whatever you call it, someone and a group who's focused on generating returns out of data, >>Yes. But it has to have that executive level and that new talent mortal that we're proposing right where everybody knows a little bit of data in a sense. >>And the other thing is that I mean, think about this role that's dedicated to creating value of data, right? So you can understand you know how you create value in one function. Take it to the other function and tell them Hey, here's have helped finance right, get more value and then use the same thing marketing our sales. So it's also the cross pollination of ideas across different functions in an organization. S O n roll like that is helpful in terms of >>just to say, the data could very well become the next shared service's organization. That's because you don't want your salespeople to be great with data and your marketing people to be lousy with data. >>Correct. You're totally right on that. That's what we're proposing, right? So data being another vertical in entire business, >>the Lloyd bring all the action here on the Q. With all the data they're sharing here to you. It's the Cuban John for With Peter Burst, more live cover. Stay with us. We're here in Las Vegas. Live for in from Attica, World 2018 day. One of two days of wall to wall comes here out in the open. Bringing you all the data is Thank you. Stay with us.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering IBM Think 2018 brought to you by IBM. >> We're back at IBM Think 2018. This is theCUBE the leader and live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with my cohost Peter Burst. Day two of our wall to wall coverage of IBM's inaugural Think conference. Rajesh Nambiar is here, he's the general manager of global business services for application services within IBM. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me here. >> So how's this event going for you? You're in from Singapore. We were saying you must love the fact that IBM's consolidated a lot of it's major events in one place. You get a lot done in a week. >> Absolutely, I think this is four or five days that we're going to be here. Phenomenal amount of energy, I mean when you go around you can see that. I think as you said, combining some of the events it's made it even more interesting for us. I'll be meeting more people, more clients, more productive session for sure. >> So let's talk about what you do with application services and then we really want to get in to one of the themes that Jenny hit on today which is incumbent disruptors and competing from the core of your proprietary data. So let's get in to it. Start with your organization and what you guys do. >> Absolutely, so as you mentioned and I do the application services for GBS in IBM. Within application services I think we focus on application development and management which is a large area for us and as you know that IBM has been managing applications for many, many large clients over the period of time and it's a very large portfolio for IBM. What we see truly is enterprises as you saw and they are going to have enormous amount of issues with the new age companies if you may, all of the new companies which are sort of coming out. You can call them bond digital or bond in cloud or uberization of the organizations, whatever. So you'd find that the enterprises are going to have significant issues maintaining the company advantage over a period of time. And one of the ways they could sort of regain the leadership or company advantage would be by ensuring that they are digitally reinventing themselves. The problem is, I think as Forbes said recently in an article around saying that, about 80 percent of the digital transformation projects really fail with multiple reasons as to why they fail. I want to argue saying that one of the, and you heard from Jenny this morning, that you know you have the business architecture and the technology architecture. If we focus on the technology for second, you would find that many of these new incumbents that you mentioned will, they try to compete purely on the digital side of the equation. They will have a harder chance or they might not even get where they want to go. And we want to argue saying that if they kind of pay attention to the core they have, and I want to sort of define what this core and digital is going to be, so think of it this way, I mean core is what, if any company has been around for awhile, then they would of had a significant amount of core systems, systems of records if you want to call it where they have the business process embedded into that. They have the customer data embedded into that. Now what's happening on the other side, of course everybody wants to get there, the whole digital dimension, on the digital side of the equation you do have systems of engagement, where you truly understand and engage, I want to say customers but then again also have employees of your organization. So you're going to engage them in the last mile if you may. What touches the customer, touches your employees, that's what we call systems of engagement in the digital. Now, organizations tend to see these two as two different things and if you do not build your digital eco system, leveraging what you have in core, I believe that the chances of you failing in your digital transformation are very, very high. Why is that? Because I believe the intersection of these two worlds if you may, the core and the digital, is not that easy for people to leverage and I believe that we as a company, we help our clients sort of leverage that intersection if you may. >> Okay so, where do you start? Is it application modernization? Is it allowing them to develop applications that are more sort of more native as you say? When you talk to customers where do you see the starting point? >> Okay so, when you look at these two fundamentally there are synergies between these two worlds and they are discouraged. Synergies are natural why? Because as I mentioned before, in the core or in the systems of records you'll find business processes getting embedded, customers data getting embedded. And then on the other side of the digital system, you always have the user experience which is what we all want to try. I mean the user experience is all about everything. I was talking to a bank recently (foreign name). So they said, we built this phenomenally wonderful user friendly mobile app for our customers and what happened was the app was fantastic and it was great user experience and everything was fine, he just add for every transaction it took like a minute for the balance to show up on the mobile app. That's not what he wanted because why is that? Because your focusing on the digital only. The fact that it just go to your core systems, get the customer data and bring it back to the watch app or the mobile app or whatever, that wasn't the plan that I weighed and hence my point being that if you look at the synergies which is great, there are a lot of discordance because the way that all systems are being built is very different. Maybe you're using a waterfall. The new systems are getting built in a different way. If you leverage the synergies, manage the discordant in a nicer way. A great example would be, so do you have micro services coming out of your core systems to enable your digital systems. You have the right API's getting built from the core systems to enable your digital systems. If you're able to manage this intersection well, then I think you have a play and that's how I believe that we should. So again to your point, do you modernize? I believe you do the three things to get the synergy right. One would be you are to optimize your core systems for efficiency because more and more the systems get older and older. You're going to have challenges in maintaining them, more expensive to maintain them, so you optimize those systems for efficiency. Then you modernize them to build in or enable new capability. So second, as I said modernize, what you really do, you're making sure that it is easier for the digital systems to get to you, to understand what you're doing, to get the customer data, so that is a modernized space. The third is that you have to innovate sort of co create if you may and make sure that you're able to build those newer systems, digital systems using the core and enabling the core for growth. So if you had an organization, if you want growth, you're not going to get it if you don't do these three things in my opinion. >> So Rajesh, many years ago I did a research project for a client and we looked very closely at the consequences of increasing the functionality and automation in systems of engagement and how that drove work back in the core and we found that every success of generation of enhancement on the systems of engagement, drove the number of transactions back at the core sevenfold. Are you seeing relationships like that? Is there rules of thumbs that people should use now as their systems of engagement get even more powerful, more human friendly? What is the new kind of expectation these days? >> So the issue is definitely what you said. I mean for every about seven or eight times is what you want to drive the, for every single transaction which is rising out systems of engagement. However, one of the way to make it more efficient when the systems of records, which is the core systems if you may, is by using the modern, stuff we'll be talking about, if you have designed your core systems and enabled micro services in the right way, maybe instead of having seven or eight transactions, you could be able to do that in two or three. Similarly >> Peter: Unstage them. >> Unstage them, yeah in a certain way so that you're not getting into the performance issue which I talked about in this banking example as you know, you don't want to build a wonderful digital app but having that to go through a significant performance issue over the period of time. So that is one of the things. The other important element of what he just now said is also the talent piece of it. We underestimate, I think, as we said, one of the reasons why many of these engagements fail is also because people don't think talent is a big deal in a lot of this. Because when you really see, if you're a big company, been around for awhile, you have a very strong core, and your people in the IT organization are going to be wired somewhat to the processes which are going to be sort of the ordeal if you may. And how do you move to this new world of digital? So there is a fundamental difference from the talent point of view. Two things, as an organization you're moving from process centric to user centric. Now you want to build something for your customer, for your employee. When you do that the talent base, of course their minds have changed, but also a simple example, we always hire people for skills. Maybe still, some companies still do, for skills. But I believe that's a passe because you know what do you now need is a tenacity for learnability or tenacity for a life long learning for the people whom you're hiring. Not necessarily a skill that you value today because what happens in today's world, after six months that skill is no longer valuable for you. So what do you do with them? But if you have a tenacity for life long learning, the ability for you to pick up new skills and then transform yourself will be so high that you're not stuck with people who are all skills for a long period of time. >> I was talking to a senior, a guy who owns development and he said one of the biggest impacts of open source over the last few years was that it brought the notion of responsibility, recognition, reputation, and change the way that the evolvers talk about collaboration with each other, not just in the open source world but overall. I think collaboration and new collaboration agile also has to be part of the equation. What do you think? >> Well without a question. In fact, I was about to say, collaboration's very, very key because again, when you move from process interviews as intrigue, you also find, traditionally organizations are very role based, so everybody had a role. I'm a developer, I'm a tester, I'm a architect. But in the new world, this is going to be changing into maybe parts of people who are sort of working on a garage metal. Everybody does everything. You have a smaller group of people who are able to evaluate something very, very quick and in an agile fashion as opposed to the traditional way of saying, I'm sort of role based, I have an organization and that's how they operate. So I think there's significant difference and again, I would probably say to leverage the talent for the newer market. Again there are about two or three things that one could potentially do. One would clearly be this learnability. Skills are no longer what is valued, it's the learnability. The ability for you to sort of quickly move from one to another would be valued. Second would be diversity of skills. Today we hire more people with user experience, with psychology major. You would of never thought of this 10 years ago. We never hired anybody from art school but we do that today because of... >> I was really happy. My son's a music major. >> My son is a psychology major, I was just telling you in the University of Colorado. So they get hired probably as well as already the STEM students are going to be, so that's good. (laughing) And the last one is of course, I have this notion called digital label . I don't know if you've heard this before. And Jenny talked about it today. So you're going to have man and machine, when you do that, automation is a great influencer in all of this. I think there are going to be the digital label and the human label are going to co exist. So we're calling it hybrid label. So any task that you're going to do, we will have people which is sort of high capability now, leveraging watts, which is a digital label. So that's another important thing in the talent market. >> And the laborer increasingly requires sort of multi tool skills not only domain expertise but also digital skills. >> Rajesh: Absolutely >> At least being able to understand how the leverage, the machine intelligence. I want to ask you, and I know Peter you got to go soon. But this trend with IOT, Blockchain, we saw the IV and Maersk example today where they're attacking inefficiencies where there's a third party trust involved and it's creating a trustless system. Do you see a trend toward sort of putting token economics embedded inside of applications, things like Blockchain, increasingly going into core applications? Is that a trend you're seeing yet? >> Yes, yes, I think not as much as we would like to see but I think it's beginning to sort of level up in a period of time. I think Blockchain is still, as I said, there's a more in the experimentation phase, and there are a few companies who have leveraged fully. Great example is as you saw this morning with what we're doing with the APMM Maersk, the fact that we're able to do the distribution systems within shipping. And any radio finding that there's going to be a significant amount of paperwork or transactional arrangements that are being done outside of the normal systems. I think Blockchain would be a great way to solve this issue. >> I want to tease your session a little bit. You're going talk, you got a CIO panel, what is that? >> Well the talk is actually going to be I think unlocking the value of the core system. So there's going to be something similar to what we talked about. We've got great session with three CIO's who are going to be on the panel. We're going to have the Carhartt CIO John Hill is going to be on the panel, and they've done a lot of good work in terms of truly making sure that they understood that if they don't level the core they can't really get to the digital. >> Was that CarHartt? >> Carhartt, yes. >> The only brand I wear. >> Really? (laughing) >> They'll be interesting, then KLM with (mumbling) with their history of the core that they've had for several years and how they're really moving into the new digital era and then being sort of a customer friendly airline if you may, so he's going to talk about some of that. And then we also have the TPX which is the communications organization which they've done gone through about 12 acquisitions over the last 12 years, so one a year pretty much. How are they integrating all of those companies and how are they really putting them together into sort of one system. >> Peter: And when is that session? >> That session's on Thursday morning at 11:30, I hope you guys are there to watch that. I'm worried because it's the last day. >> It's a getaway day but listen, a good day to go down and check it out because that notion of what incumbents should be doing and competing from the core is very, very important idea. So Rajesh thanks for coming on theCUBE and explaining that. Best of luck to you tomorrow and great to see you. >> Thank you so much, thank you. >> Alright, keep it right there buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. This is CUBE, you're watching live from IBM Think 2018. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>>live from San Francisco. It's the Q covering in dramatic. A World 2017 brought to you by Inform Attica. Welcome >>back, everyone. We live here in San Francisco at the Mosconi West with In From Attica. World 2017. This is Cubes Exclusive coverage. I'm John Furry with the Cube and Peter Barris with vicky bond dot com General manager we have on research. Our next guest is Tracy Ring, specialist leader at Deloitte Consulting in the trenches. Put it all together. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us today. Appreciate it. >>Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. >>So your specialist, But in the system global system, integrated world, that means you basically globally look at the solutions. And And what's interesting is why I'm excited. Conversation with you is that, you know, point solutions can come and go. But now we're in this compose herbal world of cloud data, etcetera, where ah, holistic view has to be looked at. So what? I want to get your thoughts on in from Attica and what you guys are doing because we've heard it's the heartbeat. But yet there's also a hygiene issue. So you got this heart surgeon and the hygienist, and you have all kinds of specialty rolls of and data. It's pretty broad, but yet supercritical. How do you look at the holistic big picture? >>Absolutely. I mean, we're seeing the view of ecosystems being so much more important. Were so Maney technology disruptors. I mean, three years ago, we weren't even hearing about Kafka, and Duke was really new, and and so I think demystifying, simplifying, helping customers understand the art of the possible what can be done? What are leading practice organizations doing and then really making it real? How do you so this complex story together, how do you best leverage and get your investment out of technologies like in from Attica in their complimentary tools >>is interesting. IBM has Watson in from Attica. Has Claire ASAP has Leonardo s A P has Einstein. >>It would be >>great to get them all together >>and have dinner, right? So I mean, but this speaks >>well, You got Alexa and Amazon and Google. I mean, this is an interface issues you're talking about. Ah, cognitive. A real time new user interface and machine interface into data that is completely out of the possible. It's what's happening in the world is changing. Developers is changing. Practitioners, architects. Everyone's impacted your reaction to all this. >>You know, I think it's probably the most exciting time that we've seen in so long, and I think you so well articulated all of the players that air there. I think when you add in I, O. T. And Device Management, you know it's really an exciting time. And I think it's really driving some amazing things with regard to how organizations are literally transforming themselves. And in both our clients as well as the ecosystem of technologies, companies air are literally shifting their entire business model. It's it's very exciting. >>So one of the things that the typified system integrator types behavior like to elect a lawyer big consulting firm was big application. Let's deploy the big application for accounting for finance for HR whatever. Also culminating in New York, which was the Grand pa of everything. Right now we're talking about analytics where we have to focus on the outcome's not just a big package for a function, but really a complex, ideally strategic differentiating outcome. Yeah, typically using a whole bunch of smaller tools that have to be bought together similar. What John was talking about as a specialist who looks at these tools take us through kind of a new thought process, outcome, capability to tool in the entire journey to get there. >>Absolutely. I think one of the things that delight does that is really, really unique is having conversations that start with art of the possible, what could be done? What are leading practice organizations doing Help me set a strategy? Yeah, and I think the real answer is there's less about sort of benchmarking what everyone else is doing and more about >>really, You got it, You got >>it. It's really about revolutionizing, you know, and and going into a new angle of what is truly, truly possible. And I think, ah, lot of the things that were sort of table stakes and in the way that we would look at success totally turned on its head. And we're looking at organizations monetizing their data and, you know, creating new business ventures because of the insights that they're deriving and a lot of times will use. Delight has an insight studio and a greenhouse, and a couple of really highly collaborative spaces that we take clients to. Ah, well, you know, plan 123 day workshops, depending on how difficult of problem they're trying to solve and help them charter road map. And take that road map, which is in many cases, business oriented business results driven and help them so in and layer in the technologies that are gonna make that reality possible. What's >>the opportunities for cognitive? I mean, you guys talk a lot of Deloitte about a Friday different things, but specifically there's some key opportunity around. Call the cognitive or you guys call the cognitive. IBM also used that word cognition, but really a I artificial augmented intelligence are signs of a new kind of opportunity landscape. Whether you see for customer opportunities out there, >>absolutely, we talk a lot about what we consider the inside driven advantage. And that's really about using all of the tools in the toolkit to make that insight driven, data driven, better decisions around what organizations conduce. Oh, and kind of. It is a huge component of that, you know, it's we've been hearing stories for years about companies sort of predicting the next best offer and you know, we're seeing this move so much further, removing into robotics process automation. You know, the space is getting, I think, even more complex. But I think what's interesting is when we talk to organizations about, you know, they're not hiring tons of people to go out and do data integration through wonderful organizations. Confirm Attica. That's really been solved. So companies were able to both take their technical resource is and shift them into solving Maur difficult problems, hairier technology opportunities and use that to help shape their business. >>That's like compose abilities. So in dramatic, a world's got a set of solutions and technologies. Some sass ified someone fram. But here it is. But you're deluded you. That's just one element to your mix of things composed for clients. You mention those three years opportunities. Digital transformation is kind of the categorical wave >>Iran, but the end of >>the day it's business transformation. You mentioned changing the business model. >>How do >>customers take advantage of those business opportunities in whether it's robotics or industrial i ot or insights and analytics? What What is the customer impact and how did they get those business benefits? >>Yeah, I mean, I think again like I said, a lot of times it starts with, you know, what is their goal? What do they want to be known for in the marketplace and that value branding of Of what is it that they see themselves differentiating amongst their competitors and using a pretty solid process and rigorous approach to that strategy? Tea set? You know, what are the pillars to achieve? That is, I think, a big piece of it. I think the other component is we see a lot of organizations sort of challenging themselves to do more. And we'll have organizations say I believe that I can doom or what? What could I do? And I think that's interesting that >>we'll just fall upon that because Pete and I were talking earlier before we came on about what gets customers excited when the iPad came out. That was the first kind of visual of >>I gotta have my analytics on the dashboard. Let's start. I >>call the dashboard wave now with bots and aye aye. You're seeing another reaction. >>Yeah, I gotta have that. Automated. Do you see it the same way? And how does that >>translate to the custom when they see these this eye candy and the visualization stuff. How does that impact your world and the impact of the customer? Your customer? >>Absolutely. I mean, we used to live in a world where if I needed to have my data extracted, I would, you know, submit a request. And it was this very long, lengthy process. And, you know, when you think about the robotic single and and process automation, you know, automated data pools are are there. And I think the interesting part is is that it's not about just cost out of i t. It's not about, you know, getting off of on premise hardware. It's about driving better customer satisfaction, driving better business outcomes. You know, the implications. I think whether you're in life sciences or you're in retail, you can touch your customer in a way that is. You know what I would say? Sort of delighting them versus just giving them what they asked for. >>So I wanna I wanna test of theory on you and see how live and see how this seals lines up with thinking and where you see your customers going. So we have this notion that wicked bond, our research of what we call systems of agency. And by that we mean effectively that historically we did we create systems that recorded action big t p e r p. More recently, as you said, we're now creating systems that suggest action predictive analytics, those types of things. And now we're moving in the world were actually going to have systems that take action. Yeah, where authority and data have to move together so that the system is acting as an agent on behalf of the brand now in from Attica has done some really interesting things here with some of their new tooling, some of the metadata tooling to ensure that that type of meeting can move with the data. So if you think about where Deloitte and customers are going, are they starting to move into this new realm where we're building systems, take action on behalf of the brand and what does that mean for the types of tooling? But we're gonna have to find for customers so they can make it, you >>know? I mean, this morning we were delighted to hear the latest announcement around how metadata is really such a core component, and and I think of it is metadata is in many cases where most organizations do see the monetization of their data payoff. Right? We're not only do I have highest golden record like we talked about 10 years ago, I have data lineage. I have data traceability. I have the whole entire story. So it's really much more cost justified. Uh, you know, hearing the announcement today of Claire, and you know how we now have the Aye Aye of our clairvoyance is really exciting. And, you know, I I don't know that we're completely there. And I think we'll continue to innovate as in from Attica. Always does. But we certainly are a whole lot closer. And I would say, you know, your concept is you know, certainly we're all going to the park for >>good. My final question. Let's get your thoughts on because you have a global perspective. You work with the ecosystem partners. You heard all the stories. You've heard all the raps and all the Kool Aid injectors from the different suppliers. But there's two things going on that that's interesting. One is we're kind of going back to the end to end solution. Absolutely. I'm seeing five g with Intel Smart cities I ot So everyone wants to get back to that end to an accountability with data and packets moving. All that could step with applications over the top. But yet there's not one single vendor owning it, so it's kind of a multi vendor world, yet it's gotta be in tow end and bulletproof secure. I mean, >>that's your world. It's not derailed. I mean, you got to be busy, your reaction to that. And what's that? What's that >>mean to the industry? And how should customers? I'd look at that Say okay, Want to get some stability? I want great SL ways, but I want a flexibility for compose ability I want and empower my app developers Dr Top Line Revenue. This is the Holy Grail. We're kind of in the wheelhouse right now. >>Yeah, 100%. I think it's a very exciting time and the like, I said, the fabric of what organizations need to sew together two really achieve their analytic insights and, uh, you know, leveraging their data. I think data is just becoming more and more important, and it's a phenomenal place toe to be in both for where I sit on the consulting side helping all of our customers and certainly where globally we're seeing our client's going >>and your and your message to the client is what we got your back on. This >>has to look, that's what you guys do. You sew it together. It's got to be more than that. It's got ideas for you could see. I think it's a >>lot. I think it's that it's not just about bolting in a technology or 10 technologies. It's about solving the most difficulty technology problems with, you know, with data helping. >>You gotta be savvy to, as they say in the swim lanes of the different firms and got to bring your expertise to the table with some of your own tech. >>Absolutely. And and I think for us we never sort of a ra missed that there is a huge business, and if you if you don't take the business aspect of it, what business problem are we solving? What value are regenerating? How are we ultimately impacting our customers customers, you know? Then you know you're sort of missing the what we consider the most important piece of the pie. >>Tracey Ring with the Lloyd. Great to have you on. Thanks for your insight. Very insightful. That all the data's right there. We're gonna make sense of it here in the Cube. Thanks for sharing, Dee Lloyd. Really put it all together. Composing the future Cloud Data Mobile. It's all here. Social is the que bringing all the live action from San Francisco. I'm John for Peter Burst more after this short break.

>>live from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Informatica World 2016. Brought to you by Informatica. Now here are your hosts John Furrier and Peter Burress. Okay. Welcome back, everyone. We are here live in San Francisco for Informatica World 2016. Exclusive coverage from Silicon Angle Media is the Cube. This is our flagship programme. We go out to the events and extract the signal to noise. I'm John from my co host, Peter Burst. We have tree conflict comedy Global Head of Data Management and Steve Jones, global vice president. Big data from Capt. Jeff and I insights and data. You. Good to see you again. You sure you're welcome back. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you. And you've got my name right? It was a tongue twister, but, uh, we were talking about big data before we started rolling and kind of like where we've come to talk about over the really big data. You look back only a few years ago. Go back five years, Duke movement to where it is now. The modernisation is certainly loud and clear, but it's just not about Hadoop anymore. There's a lot of operational challenges and also the total cost of owners who want to get your thoughts. What's the trends? What do you guys see as the big trends now relative to this modernisation of taking open source the next big day to the next level? >>I think part of the pieces were actually about to publish a report we've done within the massacre on exactly that question, Uh, particular and governance and how people are making it operational. We did a report recently with our captain consulting division around Operation Analytics. Really fascinating thing that found out was the two real interesting in governance, right? The age old thing on governance has been the business doesn't engage. Well, guess what we found when you look at big data programmes is when the big data programmes start to deliver value. Guess who wants to take them over business? Guess who then actually starts leading the governance efforts, the business. So suddenly, this piece where the history of sort of data management has been, you know, going you really care about quality and the business, to be honest, going? Yeah, we don't care that much. We're still using excel, um, to the stage of which you're delivering real analytical value those pieces are going through. It's something we've been on a long journey for. I mean, we talked the other day. 2011 was the first time at camp we published a white paper on on our learnings around Big Data and governance. Um, it's amazing. Five years ago, we were talking about actually how you do governance and big data because of some of our more, uh, sort of forward looking clients. But that shift and what we're finding in that the report is the fact that people are really looking to replace this substrate. It's absolutely not about just about Hadoop, but that's the foundation, right? And unlike sort of historical pieces where there hasn't really been a data foundation, there's been lots of data silos but not a data foundation. Companies are looking to move towards actual firm data foundations across their entire business. That's a huge leap for it organisations to make and in terms of its impact on, you know, MDM and data quality and pace of delivery. Um, and those are the pieces. >>So also talk about the trends outside the US, for instance, because now you have in the UK uh, talk about that because your clients have a global footprint. The governance then crosses over the boundaries, blurring if you will virtual. But you still have physical, uh, locations. Well, I am sort of the UK and based out of London, And, uh so I see that side of the pond more often than, uh, this side. But the trends are pretty similar. And what Steve said, in fact, we were joking about it yesterday and we said, It's not for the tweet, but maybe, you know, was a little bit more big data doesn't need data quality. And my other favorite statement is MDM is dead. Long live India. Both of them are relevant. Big data doesn't need data quality in the sense that you cleanse all your data and put it into a TD WR uh, or a data lake because you can't only part of it is data owned by you. The rest comes from external sources where it needs quality is building the context on top when the end user of the analysts have a view, and there, if you build the context, then even good data could turn too bad, because in a particular context. That data is no more relevant. But bad data can turn to good because you're bringing in the context. And there was this eggs example we were talking about. You know, you you run a marketing campaign and you have all these likes and tweets and everybody loved it. Somebody then said, Okay, how about how good is this campaign? That's great. We need more. How good is it in the context of sales? Guess what? When the campaign ran, there was no difference to your sales. So then this good data that you had on the marketing campaign has turned back just to the company. That was a wasted effort that marketing. So you need contextual quality, not pure data quality. You know, if you look at e t l. You transform you do data quality before you, Lord. Now you're talking of E l t. And that's where you need quality. You need the linkages, the references, this data changes the data, and real time has been the conversation earlier so far today, the context defines the quality quality. A data swamp could be a data, you know, clean and environment. I mean, one >>of the reasons why we should presented that we present my presentation That I did on Monday was on avoiding a data swamp. So we actually think. But what we say is you've already got it. The myth is that you don't have data swamp right today, which is Oh, we've got my perfect data warehouse and it's got a perfect schemer. Really? And what does your business use Excel spreadsheets? Where do they get the data from? Well, they get from S a p. They download this and we got a macro. Somebody wrote in 1998 which means we can't upgrade that despot desktop from office 97. Right? So that desktop is office 97 because it's the only one that has a supply chain spreadsheet on. So the reality is you have the spread. Have it today. I think to the point you said about the country difference. One of the things we've seen, I think from a sort of a culture difference between Europe and here in the U. S. Is the U. S. Has been very much the technology pioneer, right is well, you know, the Hadoop stuff. The sparks of all that technology push European companies are seeing a lot of have taken quite a while to get into the, uh the Hadoop marketplace, but particularly the larger manufacturers, Um and sort of I'd say the more robust, like pharmaceuticals and these large scale organisations are now going all in. But after thinking about it. So what I mean is is that we've seen sort of lots of POC is used to be, like, four or five years ago. People doing PhDs here in North America. They're very technically centric. And then people like Okay, >>Exactly. Whereas >>over in now, in Europe, we're seeing more people going. Okay, We know where we want to get, too, because we've seen all the technology. Now it works. We're gonna start with thinking about the governance and thinking about that. What's the right way to go about this? So I think from a timing perspective, the thing that was interesting we felt beginning of last year that we begin to see some earlier states. Larger programmes in Europe, Maybe towards the end of the reality was by the middle of the year we were seeing very, very large pieces. There was almost a switch that happened, but we've our return, this notion of governance because it's really important. And you've said it here today about 20 times the rules of data Governments have been written piecemeal over the past few decades. Uh, started off by saying, uh is which application owns what data? And is the data quality enough so that the application runs or not? Uh, then compliance kind of kicked in, and we utilised compliance related rules to write the new rules of data governance. What is data governance in the context of big data? And the reason I ask questions specifically and maybe put some bounds on it is we're trying to get to a point where the business puts a value on data trade data as an asset that has a value. And the only way we're gonna be able to do that is through governance rules to support it. So what does data governance mean in a big data context, I >>think, Yeah. So the value is really the impact, and I go back to a very simple analogy people, When you didn't have computers, you had your ledges. You locked it up in a safe and took the key home. So you protected who had access to your data? You then put it on PCs. But then you give them access with Loggins. Then you said, Well, I'll tell you what you can do with my data. That was the era of B I. Because you had reports all they could do was print a report. Now you've given them access to do whatever they want with data. Now, how do you know? First thing on the governance aspect is what are they doing with the data? Where did they get the data for which they used to come up with that? What is the exposure to your organisation if somebody has, you know, uh, traded around, they traded around with labour rates or, uh, you know, fix them or done something you're talking about. And then you work backwards, Arlene. Age. So now I need to know first thing what? Not just who accesses my data. And I need to know. What are they doing that I need to know where they got the data with it. >>Well, I think this is >>You don't know what they're when they're going to access it and what they're going to do with at any given time. But I >>think that's the thing is where we have the This is where the sort of contention comes in. Right. To be honest between the areas back to the value is from a data management data governance that those things are all true, right? We need to know those pieces. The other reality is that today how do you show the business, Actually that they value the pieces, which is ultimately the outcome. So the piece we're finding on the research and the research we're about to publish soon with Informatica is one of things it's really finding. Is that where when do you get the business to care about governance? And the answer is when you demonstrate an outcome which relies on having good governance. So if you do a set of analytics and you prove that this is going to improve the effectiveness, the bottom line, the top line or whatever, the firm and particularly Operational analytics customer analytics, where they're real measurable numbers, we can save you 6% on your global supply chain costs. But in order to do that, you need a single view of product and parts, which means you need to do a product. MDM Well, that's a very easy way to get the business engaging government, as opposed to we need to do product MDM What? >>We're going to 3 60 view of the customer. >>So you So we're still pricing the value of data based on the outcome? Absolutely. And then presumably at some point, there is some across all those different utilisation and that will become the true value of the data. Is that I think the piece, I'd say in terms of that, if we sum it up, it's sort of it becomes a challenge because ultimately the business pays. Right? So one of the things I like about the big data stuff and the programmes are doing these large scale companies is the ability to deliver value to an area. So what we call insight at the point of action, and that's the bit where I pay. So, yes, I could sum it up in Theoretically and the C I can say, Well, I'm delivering this much value, but it's at those points of action. And if you say to something right, I deliver you $2 million. It costs you $100,000. That's much better than we have to say in totality. This delivers you, you know, $2 billion and it costs you $20 million or $200 million. That's an abstract piece, whereas except when I'm thinking about investment BAC, because I need to be able to appropriate the right set of resources, financial and otherwise, to the data based not just on individual exploitations but across an entire range of applications. Tyre range of utilisation, right? I think I think so. But again, in terms of the ability to bill and charges that if I can, my total is the summation of the individuals. So that's why I worked with the CFO once you have the CIA was in the room, said the business case for their for one of their programmes, and CFO said, Well, if I had, it took all your business cases and adding together this company twice the size and cost nothing to run. So there's been a history of theoretical use cases. So what we're seeing, I think on the data and the outcome side is the fact that particular Operation Analytics they're absolutely quantifiable outcomes. So while then you can say? Well, yes, If you then add this up. We need to make an investment on based platform. The two things we're finding are because you can use these much more agile technologies. These projects don't take 12 months to deliver first value, so you can. And because the incremental cost of working in a lake environment is so much less, you know, I don't have a 12 month schema change problem. So that's one of the things we're seeing is the ability to say yes as a strategy. We're going to spend 20 million or whatever over the next five years on this. But every three months, I'm going to prove to you that I've delivered value back because one thing I've seen on data governance, sort of strategic programmes historically is 18 months in. What have you delivered? What have you done for me? Proves that it has value right that >>you've forgotten. And I think also what we're seeing with big data initiatives is the failed fast methodology like the drug trials and farmers. So what's your project? It's actually the sum of all the all the programmes you've run. And we were talking about apportioning uh the budget, whose budget? Because it's now being done by the individual businesses in their own areas. So there's no CF or sitting there and saying, Well, this is the budget I give I t. And this is how you apportion it. It's all at the point of the business and they find we'll do all these fail fast programmes and I've then hit one, which makes me big bucks. And I love this concept because essentially talking about the horizontal disruption, which is what cloud and data does just fantastic. And I'm sure this is driving a lot of client engagements for you guys. So I got to ask a question on that thread Jerry Held talked about earlier today. I want to ask the question. He made a comment, but alternative questions. You guys, he said. Most CFOs know where their assets are. When you ask him to go down, the legend they go, Oh, yeah, they asked. What's about data? Where the data assets. The question is, when you go talk to your clients, uh, what do they look at when they say data assets? Because you're bringing up in the notion of not inventory of data I'm sitting around whether it's dirty, clean, you can argue and things will happen. But when it gets put to use for a purpose, Peter says, data with a purpose that's this would keep on narrative. What is there a chief data officer like a CFO role that actually knows what's going on? And probably no. But how do you have the clients? They're just share some colour because this is now a new concept of who's tracking the asset value. >>And I think there's two bits and I'll start without it. And then if you talk specifically post an L, which I think is a great example of what happens with data when it becomes an asset, is the ability to understand the totality of data within any nontrivial organisation is basically zero because it's not just inside your firewalls. I'd also question the idea that CFOs know where all the assets are. I'm working with a very large manufacturer, and after they've sold it, they need to service it, and they can't tell you where every asset is because that information now lives within a client. So actually knowing where all of the assets they need to service are, they might know their physical plants and factories are. But some of these assets a pretty big things they don't know necessarily where they are on planet Earth. So the piece on data is really to the stage of because it's also external data, right? So really the piece for me about government and other ones Do I understand the relationships of these pieces in terms of the do I value data as an individual pieces because of what I can do with it? Sometimes the data itself is the value, But most of the time we're finding in terms of when people describe value, it's to the outcome that it's based upon. And that's something that's much easier to define than how much is my, uh, product master worth. Well, I can't really say that, but you know what? I can absolutely say that 6% reduction in my supply chain costs because I have a product master. But I think post and l is a great example of what happens when you go the next step on data >>because you're looking at addressed it. And actually, it's not just posting now. We were talking to another uh, male company. A postal company. Where? Data asset. Okay, my address is our data assets, but I have multiple addresses for one person, and what they wanted to offer was based on the value of the packages that you get delivered. They wanted to give you a priority or a qualification of the addresses. They said this is a more trustworthy address because anything about £50 this person gets it delivered there. This is a lot of mail. So do you consider the insurance or the value of the packages that you get delivered to be a data asset? Most people wouldn't. They would say, Yeah, the addresses a asset. That's the data asset. But there's a second part to it, which you don't even know. So the answer really is yes and no. And it all is contextual because in a particular context, you can see if I know where everybody lives. I know where everybody is and I have all the address. You almost got to look back after the outcome and kind of reverse track the data and say, OK, that stream. I >>would say that people who start with we've had 30 years of trying to say it's the data object that has the value, and it's never ever happened. As soon as we're starting talking about the outcome and then backtracking and going in order to this outcome, we needed addresses which historically issues that would have been the value. But actually it was It was that plus the analytics of prioritising them for risk that suddenly that's a lot more valuable. That outcome of you know, what this person tends to be here, this area people seem to see as lower risk. This is where I can therefore look at the work office for those people. It gives you more information about the >>notion of the data swamp turning into data quality because the context, Sri says, is really key. Because now, if you can move data to context in real time data in motion where people call these days the buzzword. But that's the value. When you when you when you stumble upon that, that's where you say, Well, I thought I had bad data. No, Actually, it's hanging around waiting to be used as potential energy. As you know, it's the same thing with questionable. They're moving from being a postal supplier to delivering packages. Now, you know they have a very short window to deliver packages. So just how do you get to a building? Do you have to go through the backyard? Do you have to call somebody to get it? Now that data becomes valuable because otherwise you know all their deliveries go off the radar screen, right? Because they just shot to schedule >>was going to say about the quality. Want a great example of qualities that we spend a lot of times say process data and manufacturing will clean it up before it goes in the reporting structure, which is great, and that gives you a really great operational reports. There's now an entire business of people doing the digital discovery of processes so they can use the bad data to discover what your processes are and where your operational processes are currently breaking down process. If I cleaned up the data, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs. And it's this fascinating stuff we're finding a lot with. The data science piece is its ability to get different value out of data, >>chemical reactions, alchemy. It's all the interactions of the data. This is interesting. And I want to ask you guys, I know we have a minute left, and I want to have you guys take a minute to explain to the audience Cap Gemini and how people how you engage with the customer, uh, and context to their progress. Where are your customers? On the progress bar of these kinds of Congress? Because we have a nice conversation. I'd love to do an hour for this. Go up. We can geek out. But reality is day to run a business, right? So and in the tier one system integrators like captain and I all have kind of different differentiation. What do you guys do differently with this area of your practise? How are you engaging with your customers? And where are they on the progress bar of Are they like while you're talking gibberish to me, are they on board? Where are they? >>I think I think we've got a bit of a man. We've been on this journey a lot longer than most. Like I say, 2011. We're talking actual data governance and big data. You don't talk about that if you haven't been doing it for a while. we were the first systems integrated and as we Cloudera pivotal with massive partner with homework. So most of what's interesting is when people talk about data lakes and some people are thinking that stuff new. We're talking about the problem of most of our clients are now looking at the problem of having We will have multiple data lakes for P. I reasons for operational efficiency reasons from budget reasons. Whatever it may be we're looking at, how do you collaborate beyond the firewall? So I'd say, Obviously, we've got a continuity of customers. But a lot of our customers are going beyond the stage at which they're worrying about big data within their four walls to the stage of how do I collaborate beyond my four walls? And this, for us, is the switch on governance and data, and what we do is is the difference between sort of capture announcement other ones is. So when's recess is the global MGM guy and Gold Data Management guy? He actually his team is in all of the countries, so he has P and l responsibility for that. When I have it for big data in the >>country, you're out implementing the value extraction >>were in multi. I mean, it's really at the stage of kicking tyres. We're at the stage >>behind the kicking tyres a long way back in 2000, 11 >>1,002,011. By now, sort >>of driving the Ferrari on the autobahn. You know, 90 miles an hour straight, narrow. It's a lot more work to do, right. There's always a lot more things keep changing and that's that's the best part >>of what we do next. And that's the point for us is the reason we're in this is that it's what's next and I think that people, the reason governments are changing fundamentally is this move towards global collaboration. So the more you look at health exchanges and all of these things, the more people collaborate outside the four walls. That for us, is the problem we want to solve next, which is why we're working on industrialising what we now consider the boring stuff which is building a data lake and doing the internals and ingestion in those pieces that were not interested in putting bodies on that. It's about how you solve the next problem. >>Stephen Pre, thank you so much for joining the Cuba because you're good to see you again. And welcome to the Cuban love nightclub. You made it, um, great to have you love to do it. Do this again and again. I love the context. I love that you guys are on this, you know, data quality at the right time. Really? Right message? Certainly we think certainly relevant. So thanks for sharing your insights on here. And And the data on the Cube live streaming from San Francisco. You're watching the Cuba right back. It's always fun to come back to the cube because