>>From Miami beach, Florida. It's the queue covering a Chronis global cyber summit 2019. Brought to you by Acronis. >>Okay. Welcome back. Everyone's cubes coverage here and the Kronos is global cyber summit 2019 and Sarah inaugural event around cyber protection. I'm John Forrey hosted the cube. We're talking to all the thought leaders, experts talking about the platforms. We've got a great guest here, security analyst, author and Ted speaker. Karen Ellis, Zari who runs the besides Tel Aviv. Um, she gave a keynote here. Welcome to the queue. Thanks for coming on. >>Oh, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. >>Love to have you on. Security obviously is hot. You've been on that wave. Even talking a lot about it. You had talked here and opposed the conference. But for us, before we get into that, I want to get in and explore what you've been doing that besides Tel Aviv, this is the global community that would be runs a cyber week. He wrote a big thing there. >>So that's something that's really important to me. So 10 years ago, hackers and security researchers thing start that somebody called security besides which was an alternative community event for hackers that couldn't find their voice in their space. In the more mainstream events like RSA conference or black hat for example. That's when security besides was born 10 years ago. Now it's a global movement and there's been more than a hundred besides events. Just this year alone, just in 2019 anywhere from Sao Paolo to Cairo, Mexico city, Athens, Colorado, Zurich, London, and in my hometown of Tel Aviv. I was very proud to bring the besides idea and the concept to Tel Aviv five years ago. This year, 2020 will be our fifth year and we'll be, I hope our biggest year yet last summer we had more than 1200 participants. We take place during something called Telaviv cyber week, which if you've never visited Tel Aviv, that's your opportunity next year of Bellevue cyber Wade brings 9,000 people to Israel. >>It's hosted by Tel Aviv university where I'm also a researcher and all of these events are free. They're in English, they are welcoming to people from all sorts of places in all walks of life. We bring people from more than 70 countries and I think it's great that we can have that platform in Israel, in Tel Aviv to share not just our knowledge but also our points of view, our different opinions about the future of cyber security. Tel Aviv university. Yeah. So Tel Aviv university hosts me cyber week and they're also the gracious hosts for the sites televi which runs as a nonprofit separate from the university. >>You know, I love these movements where you have organic, just organic growth. And then we saw that with the unconference wave couple years ago where you know, the fancy conferences got too stuffy to sponsor oriented, right? That's >>right. Yeah. Up there too. They want to have more face to face, more community oriented conversations, more or, yeah. So besides actually the first one was absolutely an unconference and to this day we maintain some of that vibe, that important community aspect of providing a stage for people that really may not have the opportunity to speak at Blackhat or here or there. They may not feel comfortable on a huge with all those lights on them. So we really need to have that community aspect of them and believe it or not. And unconference is how I got on the Ted stage because a producer from Ted actually came all the way to Israel to an unconference in the Northern city of Nazareth in Israel, and she was sitting in the room while I was giving a talk to 15 people in the lobby of a hotel. And it wasn't that, it wasn't, you know, I didn't have a big projector. >>It wasn't a fancy production on any scale, but that's where that took for loser found me and my perspective and decided that this was this sort of point of view deserves to have a bigger stage. Now with digital technologies, the lobby conference, we call it the lobby copy, cons, actions in the hallway, just always kind of cause do you have a programs? It's not about learning anymore at these events because if all you can learn online, it's a face to face communal activity. I think it's a difference between people talking at you. Two people talking with you and that's why I'm very happy to give talks and I'm here focused on sharing my point of view. But I also want to focus on having conversations with people and that's what I've been doing this morning, sharing my points of view, teaching people about how I think the security worlds could look like, learning from them, listening to them. >>And it's really about creating that sort of an atmosphere and there's a lot of tension right now in the security space. I want to get your thoughts on this because you know, I have my personal passion is I really believe that communities is where the action is in a lot of problems can be solved if tapped properly, if they want, if they're not used or if they're, if the collective intelligence of a community can be harnessed. Yes, absolutely. Purity community right now has a imperative mandate, which is there's a lot of to do better. I think good that could be happening. The adversaries are at scale. You seeing, um, you know, zero day out there yet digital warfare going on, you got all kinds of things on a national global scale happening and people are worried. Absolutely. So there's directions, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of panic going on these days. >>If you're an average individual, you hear about cybersecurity, you're of all hackers, you're thinking, Oh my God, they should turn all of my devices off, go live in the woods with some sheep and that's going to be my future. Otherwise I'm a twist and I agree with you. It's the responsibility, all the security industry and the security community to come together and also harness the power and the potential of the many friendly hackers out there. Friendly hackers such as myself, security researchers and not all security researchers are working in a lab at the university or in the big company and they might want to, you know, be wherever they are in the world, but still contributing. This is why I talk about the hackers immune system, how hackers can actually contribute to an immune system helping us identify vulnerabilities and fix them. And in many cases I found that it's not just a friendly hackers, even the unfriendly ones, even the criminals have a lot to teach us and we can actually not afford not to pay attention, not to be really more immersed, more closely connected with what is happening in the hacker's world, whether it's criminal hackers underground or the friendly hackers who get together at community events, who share their work, who participate on bug bounty platforms, which is a big part of my personal work and my passion bug bounty programs for the viewers who are not familiar with it are frameworks that will help companies that you might rely on like Google or Facebook, United airlines or Starbucks or any company that you can imagine. >>So many big companies now have bug bounty programs in place, allowing them to actively reward individual hackers that are identifying vulnerabilities. Yeah. And they pay him a lot of money to up to millions of dollars. Yes, they do, but it's not just about the money, you know, don't, it's not just amount of money. There's all kinds of other rewards that place as well. Whether it's a fancy, you know, a tee shirt or a sticker, or in the case of Tesla for example, they give out challenge coins, the challenge coins that only go out to the top hackers. I've worked with them now you can't find anything with these challenge coins. You keep the tray, you can trade them in in the store for money. But what you can do is that you get a lot of reputational and you know, unmonitored value out of that as well. Additionally, you know another organization that's called them, the Pentagon has a similar program, so depending on his giving out, not just monetary rewards but challenge coins for hackers that are working with them. >>This reputation kind of system is really cutting edge and I think that's a great point. I personally believe that that will be a big movement in all community behavior because when you start getting into having people arbitrator who's reputable, that's an incentive beyond money. Well, what I've found great I guess, but like reputation also is important. I can tell you this because I've, I've this, I've really dissected and researched this in my academic work and the look at the data from several bug bounty programs and the data that was available. There's all kinds of value on the table. Some of the value is money and you get paid. And you know, last month I heard about the first bug bounty millionaire and he's a guy from Argentina. But the value is not just in the money, it's also reputational value. It's also work value. So some hackers, some security researchers just want to build up their resume and then they get job offers and they start working for companies that may have never looked at them before because they're not graduates of this and that school didn't have this or that upbringing. >>We have to remember that from, from the global perspective, not everybody has access to, you know, the American school system or the Israeli school system. They can't just sign up for a college degree in cybersecurity or engineering if they live in parts of the world where that's not accessible to them. But through being a researcher on the bug bounty platform, they gain up their experience, they gain up their knowhow, and then companies want to work with them and want to hire them. So that's contributing to the, you've seen this really? Yeah. We've seen this and the reports are showing this. The data is showing this, all of the bug bounty programs that ha have reports that come out that show this information as well. Do you see that the hackers on bug bounty pack platforms that usually under 30 a lot of them are. They're 30 they're young people. >>They're making their way into this industry. Now, let me tell you something. When I was growing up in Israel, that was a young hacker. I didn't know any bug bounty programs. None of that stuff was around. Granted, we also didn't have a cyber crime law, so anything I did wasn't officially illegal because we didn't have, yeah, it wouldn't necessarily. Fermentation is good. It certainly was and I was very driven by curiosity, but the point I'm trying to make is that I didn't actually have a legal, legitimate alternative to, you know, the type of hacking that I was doing. There wasn't any other option for me until it was time for me to serve in the Israeli military, which is where I really got my chops. But for people living in parts of the world where they don't have any legitimate legal way to work in cybersecurity, previously, they would have turned to criminal activities to using their knowhow to make money as a cybercriminal. >>Now that alternative of being part of a global immune system is available to them on a legitimate legal pathway, and that's really important for our workforce as well. A lot of people will tell you that cybersecurity workforce needs all the help it can get. There's a shortage of talent gap. A lot of people talk about the talent gap. I believe a big part of the solution is going to come from all of these hackers all over the world that are now accessing the legitimate legal world of cybersecurity or something. I want to amplify that. Certainly after this interview, I'd love to follow up with you. Really, we will come to Tel Aviv. It's on our list for the cube stuff. We'll be there. We'd love to launch loving mutation. What you're talking about is an unforeseen democratization, the positive impact of the world. I want you to just take a minute to explain how this all came together for this. >>With your view on this reputational thing. I talk about the impact. Where does it go beyond just reputational for jobs? What? How does a community flex and organically grow from this and so one thing that I'm very happy to see, I think in the past couple of years, the reputations generally of hackers have become important and that the concept of a hacker is not what we used to think about in the past where we would automatically go to somebody who was a criminal or a bad guy. Did you know that the girl Scouts organization, the U S girl Scouts are now teaching girls Scouts to be hackers. They're teaching them cybersecurity skills. Arguably, I would claim this is a more important skill than making cookies or you know, selling cookies. Certainly a more money to survive in the wilderness. Why not in the digital wilderness? Yes, in a fire counter than that. >>More than that, it's about service. So the girl Scouts organization's always been very dedicated to values of service. Imagine these girls, they're now becoming very knowledgeable about cybersecurity. They can teach their peers, their families, so they can actually help spread. The more you build a more secure world, certainly they could probably start the fire or track a rapid in the forest or whatever it is that girl Scouts used to do that digitally too. That's called tracing. Really motivating that person. I think that's aspiring to many young women. That's very kind of, you actually have to have more voices out there. What can we do differently? What help? What can I do as a guy, as in the industry, I have two daughters. Everyone has, as I get older, I have daughters because they care now, but most men want to help. What can we do as a group? >>So I think you're absolutely right that diversity and inclusivity within the technology workforce is not a problem there. Just the underrepresented groups need to solve by. It's actually an issue for the entire group to solve. It's men or women or any underrepresented minority and overrepresented groups as well because diversity of the workforce will actually help build a more resilient, sustainable workforce and will help with that talent gap, that shortage of people of skilled employees that we mentioned. Others, a few things that you can do. I personally decided to do what I can, so I contributed to a book called women in tech at practical guide and in that book there's also a chapter for allies. So if you're a person that wants to help a woman or women in tech in your community, you are very welcome to check out the book. It's on Amazon, women in tech, a practical guide. >>I'm a contributor to that and myself. I also started a group called leading cyber ladies, which is a global meetup for women in cyber security and we have chapters on events in Israel, in New York city, in Canada, and soon I believe in United Kingdom and Silicon Valley and perhaps in your company or in your community, you could help start a similar group or maybe encourage some of the ladies that you know to start a group, help them by finding a space, creating a safe environment for them to create meetups like that by providing resources, by sponsoring events, by mentoring does a few, a lot of things. Yeah, there's a lot of things that you can do and it's certainly most important to consider that diversity in the workforce is everybody's issue with Cod. Something just one gender or one group needs to figure out how to be a big bang theory. >>You can share with three people, two people, absolutely organic growth or conditional. Yes, certainly. And as men, if you don't want to, you know, start them an event for women because that may seem disingenuous, but you can do certainly encourage the women that you find around you. In your workforce to see if they want to maybe have a meetup and if they do, what kind of help you can offer? Can you run the AB for them? Can you as sponsored lacrosse songs, whatever kind of help that you can offer to create that sort of a space. The reason we we started cyber ladies is because I didn't see enough women speaking at security events, so I wanted to fray the meet up where the women in cybersecurity could share their work network with one another and really build up also their speaking port portfolio, their speaking powers so that they can really feel more comfortable speaking and sharing their work on other events as well. >>Camaraderie there too. Yes, it very important. Thank you so much to you now, what is your, your professional and personal interests these days? What's getting you excited? So there's some of the cool things. That's a fantastic question. So one thing I'm super excited about is that I'm actually collaborating with my sister. So my sister, believe it or not is a lawyer and she's a lawyer who specializing in cyber line, intellectual property privacy, security policy work, and I'm collaborating with her to create a new book which would be a guide to the future of cybersecurity from the hacker's perspective and the lawyers perspective because we are seeing a lot of regulators, a lot of companies that are now really having to follow laws and guidelines and regulations around cybersecurity and we really want to bring these two points of view together. We've already collaborated in the past and in fact my sister has worked on the legal terms of many of the bug bounty programs that I mentioned earlier, including the Tesla program. >>So it's very exciting. I'm very proud to be able to work with my younger sister who followed me into the cyber world. I'm the hacker, she's the lawyer and we are creating something together. Dynamic duo that's going to be, I'm excited to interview her. Yeah, so in my family we call her the tour Vogue version. Can you imagine that together? It's really unstoppable. We didn't have a chance to speak together at the RSA conference earlier this year and that was really unique. Am I going to fall off on that with the book? Well, our platform is your platform. Anything we can do to help you get the word out, super exciting work that you're doing. We think cyber community will be one of the big answers to some of the challenges out there. And we need more education. Law makers and global politicians have to get more tech savvy. Yes, this is a big, everybody, it's everybody's issue. Like I said in this morning speech, everybody's on the front lines. It's not the cyber generals or you know, the hackers in the basements that are fighting. We are on that digital Battlefront and we all have to be safer together. Karen, thanks for your great insights here in energy. Bug bounties are hot. The community is growing. This is the cyber conference here that, uh, Acronis global cyber summit 2019. I'm John Barry here to be back with more coverage after this short break.

>> All right, Cool. We'll go with the first round of this, and we'll see how the central roles perfect. Uh, three, two and one. All right, I'm here with our guests. Chase Phelps, the director of sports science at Stanford University. Chase has an amazing background, and I was fortunate enough to work underneath him at Stanford. Chase is more than versatile. He has a deep understanding in regards to human physiology, but also the technology involved in monitoring athletes and performance in general. So, Chase, I'll let you take it away here, and I can't talk about yourself and the journey that you tell to get to where you are. I personally heard it multiple times. It's quite interesting. And for those listeners out there is going to be a good experience to hear exactly how someone chases esteem, Got to where he is, how the road's not always quite a straight line. >> Well, I appreciate you having me on II. You must be getting the checks in the mail to have that type of intro because that's way over the top on how good I am with my job. But I appreciate it. Um, so I think for me. You know, it started, I think, for a lot of us being in the gym as an athlete, Uh, you know, kind of being one of those guys has gotta work harder. Teo, you know, catch up with the other people who are coming naturally talented. So I started office of your general meathead in the gym in high school, doing all the dumb lab bench incline bench declined, bench checked back into, you know, all the flies, you, Khun Dio, and kind of started to figure out that, ah, I needed, you know, um or scientific way, I guess toe train myself and started out going to a velocity sports informants and, you know, one of those big kind of box performance gyms and got hooked up really, really lucky. Got hooked up with some people who at the time, I didn't know where were ahead of the game, but kind of started giving me the wise behind, you know, all the things I was doing in the gym and sort of kind of carbon that path for laying the foundation. So to say so I went to Undergrad, play the cross in college, Um, and they're so science piece started the internships to be a traditional sec coach on the floor, huh? I did. Let's see. Old Dominion. Radford, Virginia Attack. I AMG performance. Um, you know, just kind of laying the coaching trenches, laying down in the trenches, trying tow, kind of get myself the experience necessary to move ahead of Attritional SEC coach. So I got really lucky and that I got a job at Hampton University is an assistant. And within about seven months of being there, the director at the time up and left and they had nobody to help out with football, they have to take over. And really at an age that was way too young for me to be in that role, and so that was kind of my first, you know, probably fire experience, being twenty three years old, heading up, you know, the one double a football for him, still division one football team where I >> it >> was pretty pretty novice at the time. And while I didn't mess anything up to bad, it was definitely I would change a lot of what I did at the time. So I looked back on an experience that was extremely valuable. But from there, I actually had a stent where I was unemployed. So ah, little life lesson is, I took somebody's word on a job without having it written out and quit my job at Hampton, thinking I had this position set up and literally it fell through. The guy was like, Hey, listen, it's not gonna happen. I don't know what to tell you. I'm really sorry. So for seven months, I worked at local gyms, private personal training, training athletes on the side. You're basically doing anything I needed to do. Teo maintain coaching, but also keeping income going. Ah, and it's kind of funny because a lot of people don't appreciate that type of setting and the personal training. You're either strength coach. It's not personal training, you know. And, ah, a lot of the stuff that I do now, I still you know, I remember picking out because I was working with the client with rheumatoid arthritis, right? So, like your ability to to regress and a purple issues exercise selections for somebody who's sixty years old and is not very mobile translates very well to return to play in an athlete who just had maybe on a C L surgery on. So I looked back on that time is kind of a weird one in my life, but it was extremely valuable, you know, and my experiences. So I got really lucky. And the networking piece fell together and ended up working with the Naval Special Operations and kind of finding a role in the humor for men's branch. There, Bro is there for a little over three years. I >> it >> was just incredibly lucky to work with some of the people there, Mark Stevenson and and a lot of other guys who are still working there. They're still there now, but they're just they're pushing the field for doing a lot of things behind the scenes that I think really kind of kicked off the sports science. See Dick in the in the U. S and the last, you know, six to eight years on DH. So I was really fortunate toe kind of diversify. My experiences there really start looking at performance and training. I don't want to say like that buzzword of holistic, but just how my diversifying my ability to understand which discipline is doing, whether it's a mental performance coach, our nutritionist or sex, our physical therapist. But how can I better understand those fields, too? Then, you know, make sure that everything I'm doing is complimenting what they're doing on DH. So I was able to land the job at Stanford initially just to run the sports science department. But I also got a little coaching duties. On the side is I work with men soccer. So it's been, Ah, it's been all over the place, you know, traditionally in athletics, but, you know, a little bit of Gen file here. Besides, well, >> so Chase bast fully passed over Hiss lacrosse career, right? And how many was that? Multi time All America. Is that correct? >> I had a couple of years where else? Pretty successful. So, uh, >> and I think that's extremely important to highlight because being an athlete, you deal with all these departments firsthand. You see it from their perspective. And so one thing that Chase has really taught me, I was going forward learning about how you contain to challenge yourself, to put yourself into positions that other people are end. And how do you then think about your actions and what you're going to do as a sports scientist in regard to how and not on ly influences the athlete but the coaches and other staff around him and being an athlete, you firsthand get to experience how it is to have someone else trying to intervene on your daily routine. And that's also mention that Chase is now someone who on what level of ju jitsu he's in. But I know he's tough enough to beat the daylights out of me. And that's something as well has taught me. Is that put yourself in situations where you have to be a beginner again and challenge yourself to have tto learn from Square one. We get caught in these ruts of progress, progress, progress. You go from a beginner. When you first learned how to swing a baseball bat to now you're planned higher level travelling. Baseball is part of your life for myself. Basketball, the chase has taught me, is really embrace those opportunities of struggle and whatever way that comes in its shape and form and put you in those positions. So you have the ability to actually learn from that. And now mention that chase in regards to beat an athlete I think there's many things that we overlook as coaches. We apply the idea of an external load, right. We give them sets and wraps and weights and we write out these long workout for next six months what someone was going to dio. We can't predict the internal load and be an athlete. You understand how it is to not sleep, how it is to maybe stay out a little too late with some of your friends, but how that affects you in regards and athletic setting to reach the goals that you want to reach. So I want to dive in the topic a little bit about internal versus external load. That's something that you really challenged myself to learn about when I was with you. We talked about that in regards to H R V sleep and all the above said, I want to hear a little bit about your take on internal versus external load. What specifically is at turns >> out someone, he said, is being an athlete. I think that goes, You know, it's It's almost like every year that you are in the field. You separate yourself from what it feels like to go through the workouts and the daily grind. So to say right, it's really easy to write up a bard and have no thought process about how somebody feels on day six of a week where they've been pulling all day school two and a half hour, three hour practice our weights and you're like, Oh, man, we got a great dynamic effort. Lower body session finished office. Um, you know, if our glory body squats like you know it's It's just really easy to forget how how things can accumulate and how you know you're just trying to kind of that times get through it all and you head above water. Whereas we're thinking about optimizing, for they may be thinking about Hey, I just need to know what my head down and get through today. So I think it was a great point. But I think going on to the external love peace, obviously the U. S. In the last, you know, six, seventy nine years has exploded trying to catch up, maybe with Australian, The Europe of the world have been, um, really kind on the forefront of this, uh, objective collection of needs analysis for sport. You know, whether that's an external load of what they're doing, the mechanical demands of the sports. So how far they're running? What are the physical characteristics that you see? See environmental capabilities, as in, you know, beads with velocities, where they simply gotta Iran hominy times that they're going to change direction, really understanding the demands of the sport versus the internal loading piece, which you're going to be Howard, these individuals responding to those demands and I think the key word there being individual, we know that certain athletes are always going to be pushed and filtered into sports that there, uh, naturally, good at right. Like, I think we all tend a favor, things that we've been successful at. And as we kind of go up through our broken physical education system, we haven't done a really good job. I think in our country of kind of diversifying and scaling appropriate levels to make sure people are developing and multiple ways we kind of just like, Oh, you're good at this sport. Keep at it. You suck. You're out on. And I think if we were to kind of cater developmental, developmentally appropriate skill acquisition techniques and I'm stealing all this from a classmate of mine, Peter Bergen City proud, I think a better job of scaling, you know, developmental levels. I think you would see Maur athletes come out of that. That would be successful instead of just they only go on the tall guy put him under the basket. Um, you know, you would be able to develop more skills, but back to the internal load piece on understanding that, like I work with Ben Soccer Max, we're talking about this maybe your ago. I have a guy who logged twenty thousand meters in a playoff game last year, You know, that's over twelve and a half >> miles on run game. And he >> had played a game two days earlier and had been practicing for four months. And it comes to the question of like, How does somebody do that? Do that? Do you train them to do that? Do they just follow the program and all of us and they could do that. Or did there, I guess, internal demands to the sport over time. It took years. It took decades and in my opinion, took that after we to play the sport of high level, you know, for ten plus years to be able to get that cardiac adaptation of peripheral ability to be so efficient that they can run and change and cutting jump a tte that intensity. And so an athlete like that that that internal load, you know, they're going to be very, very effective and mobilizing energy. They're going to be very good of providing blood and oxygen to the to the outside of the body, whereas, you know, you take, not tow it, almost four. But like softball, that's a completely different athlete. And so if you were to ask them to have, ah, Despaigne similar demands, we know that internal load would be different. They're gonna have an inefficiency that, uh, you know what, I've election, Amy. A struggle to match the requirements of work or mechanical load that you're placing upon the athletes. So I think you know, it's really important as you start to look at that internal versus external. The external is critical, I think, on a lot of sports were just now identifying what is necessary to be successful on the field as and what they're doing. So you can start it that, you know, backwards, design and work. Your program to say here is ultimately what they have to be able to do. This is a worst case scenario on the field. This is how we should cater our return to play protocols so that we know we're working towards ultimately the ideal player. And that's sports and >> interesting. Yeah, not to cut you off. I did make some clarity here in regards to internal versus external loads. We talked about external load. We're talking about the amount of work someone actually does. Yes. So the amount of weight being lifted, how fast someone's running, how many pages someone can read, Right? And we end the guards, student, one intern and what side? Go ahead. >> It's really what is happening. What are you doing? What? How much of something? >> Something you're applying to the body. And then the internal load is the physiological changes that take place. And so the most basic concept is Hey, we're going to give you a weight program. We're gonna lift X amount of weight for X amount of days with the external load, intending to change the internal environment to grow muscle. And then the more muscle you grow, the more internal load you can handle. So you're adaptive capacity, that big bucket of how much you can handle a life. You become very efficient at handling that consistent external load and you increase your ability, whether it be efficiently or the magnitude. Insides that bucket to handle. A larger, I guess, external load in regards to having a larger internal capacity. And so what you're talking about is when our buck it's very specific Say we're playing soccer and we changed, too, you know, let's say tennis or in your case, saw Hall. You mentioned the softball player would struggle with soccer, and the soccer player would struggle with tennis because those external loads are so different than the internal capabilities of that individual. Is that correct? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think I think the higher level you go you definitely see that specificity of coordinated skills really kind of become a guest. Very nish. And what you typically say and I actually kind of think it's funny because I've said it. So then guilty as charged is that you'll look at a soccer player, you know, somebody who can play at the highest level and is sprinting doing all these different, you know, athletic exercises and then we'll be like, Man, they're bad athlete. They can't skip or look at that spa product. It's terrible and you know, you kind of take a step back and you're like, was the gold toe squatters, the gold toe score goals and play soccer? Um, and then some, you know, may argue. It will, you know, had the longevity of peace or they're gonna be in a more front injury, all that on and at the same time. And I think about that subconscious confidence when you put some money in a gym and a, you know, a new environment where they may not have done these things. They're very aware they're consciously in confident. They're sitting there going, I >> suck at this >> and they overthink it, right, and then you ask him to, like, go out on the field and kick a ball around, and they're doing these things. They're changing direction, which is basically a squat with shen angles changed. Uh, yeah, you know these things fluently without even thinking about it. So it's like their ability is there. It's just not in the right contact. >> Interesting. Yes, they bring up the concept of selling, being consciously aware, right? So they might be in a nervous kind of state. They're not familiar with the weight room, and that actually bring some level anxiety, possibly that true. And that itself may make the weight room instead of ah, use dresser, which is something very positive. It might be a distress, sir, and so they see that waiting is negative. And so now they're nervous toe workout and they have to work out, which makes the internal load even larger. So make this environment that kind of gets magnified. In regards to that. What other factors influence your internal load? Something I mentioned was that stress and obviously their external stressors, especially at Stanford, work very intelligent students who are having to go through rigorous testing in school. And it's a very competitive environment, not just athletically, but, um, you know, the education side as well through those stressors and past internal load. And if it does, how does that influenced the amount? External load? As a coach, you might provide? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think it's always going to be multispectral. It's always going to be. It depends on who's who's the athlete. What's their background? And the supporter? The activity. You're asking to dio, um, the daily life of the twenty two hours that they're not with you. Are they hydrated? Are they eating properly? They fuelling for adequate activity. Are they getting enough sleep? Are they, you know, have a test for their psychosocial factors at play? Like their girlfriend or boyfriend just broke up with him. And I think all those things obviously have an impact Has been Aton and ton of focus placed on this type of, I guess, capturing that whole athlete. Whereas maybe, you know, years ago, you would look at tonnage and now people will look tonnage. And what that stress load is, what that academic load is Because, you know, research is coming out. Now that we know that these types of overloaded stressors and stresses the same stress of you know makes you resilient can break you down. So it's really the improper dozing and inability to cope with that load, and that's dressed, it creates the problems. But, um, you know, you look at athletes who are an exam week, there's research talking about that people hell less efficiently. They have immune issues. So you're seeing people get sick. You're seeing that inability to adapt and cope with the demands that are placed on him, being significantly altered by some other type of factor outside of a weight room or a field. Um, you know, I think the the fact that the collegiate environment is being more aware to that and teams they're trying to push practice in the morning. A little later, they're tryingto manipulate schedules so that its aren't just running straight from class. But they have a little time between do get some type of snack and to some moment to themselves toe. Take a couple of rest before they go out on the flip side, right after practice. Are they running directly into Ah, you know, a test or something? Or are they actually will have a little moments of themselves where they can kind of down, regulate, take everything in and then move on? I think that those types of things, well or not, massive are significant because they happened ten to twenty times every day over the span of weeks in years. And that's really the problems, that chronic buildup of a over activated, sympathetic response that maybe exacerbated by an athletes Taipei, their personalities or type a person. Yeah. Hey, I'm driven. I'm a pi performer. This is what I do, or maybe some of the lifestyle stuff. So maybe that there's somebody who you know is just pumping refined sugars and other body and creating a flux and blood sugar regulation that again mobilizes cortisol, a sympathetic response. And next thing you know, you've just in the span of three hours tagged on six different things, albeit slightly different, that had the same outcome on the system. So that internal response becomes very, very sensitive. Teo, everything you're doing because it's that chronic build up that's really taken its toll on it. >> Interesting. So he bring up the idea of the sympathetic nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system being broken down. I guess being partnered with, I should say with the parasympathetic nervous system, right, that makes up your autonomic nervous systems. So for those you're not familiar. Sympathetic nervous systems, your fighter flight. It mobilizes energy. It's looked at to be very important for survival. If we saw a lion during evolutionary times would help us increase our heart rate, Increased auction supply, mobilized energy so we could run away from a lion. But then we had the parasympathetic aspect. That branch would help regulate rest. And I just kind of the repair and rebuild process. Now, with that, you mentioned the hyperactivity of the sympathetic nervous system. Now, does this get out of whack? Sometimes if you're an athlete, your individual were chronically stressed. And if so, does that affect some of your endocrinology? So how your body responds? And what kind of tips can you have No muse with your athletes or yourself to get yourself back into a parasympathetic state? Yes, >> that's a great point. I think the and not tow to correct you. I think what you're saying is absolutely right. I think the key is, is not constantly counter act sympathetic, but is to bring the body back into a more balanced ability to appropriately turn on sympathetic into appropriately eternal in Paris. Sympathetic and what you typically see, and I said it so I think you're totally right, is sympathetic, does become the primary driver, but it isn't all about just turning on sympathetic. It's it's having the ability to use both when you need it. And I think a lot of times the door or the window to that is to drive parasympathetic activity on so that it can kind of restore itself. Ah, and then the goal. Once you're kind of an ability where you have a little bit more of stability and that is, then tow, have access to both. >> So you talk to me about me. Interrupt chase. But this is something to remind me completely where, if someone is chronically sympathetic, let's say they're in a game situation. This can goes back. That being stressed out, they might have hyperactivity, sympathetic nervous system and correct if I'm wrong, this decentralize is sorry. Desensitize is the frontal cortex and reduces some individuals ability to make decisions, especially when fatigue begins to set in. Because you have multiple areas of stress coming to body fatigue, the actual stress emotional of the situation and in the person's internal Billy to regulate that, that's something you talking to me about? Spoken with me about while Stanford. I found that topic to be extremely interesting and do the fact that it's completely universal. Whether you're an athlete or your individual going in for a job interview, they kind of fall under the same umbrella. Is this the case? >> Yes, excuse me. So I think ultimately it's a fine line, right? So I think the sympathetic nervous system actually has been shown to enhance some cognitive activities, right? So it does increase that acute ability, toe recall some information and at the same time and over driven response of it can almost shut everything down. And that's where you see people kind of like getting up hyperventilating and not being able to perform and really kind of altering some type of, um, thoughtful, logical, rational action. So I think it comes down to two primary things. It's a primary and secondary appraisal, and this is a psychology based concept. But I think it applies basically everything in performance and primary, the athlete, the person. Whoever is going to say what is happening, and this is subconscious and happening in different aspects of the Iranian or not I fell. Missed what? Your body goes, What's? What is this? Right? So I looked at the analogy of you walk into a bar. All right, You scan the bar, You have a very, very fast Ah, action arms. Excuse me? Decision about what is in that bar. Is that a threat? Do you see a bunch of hell's angels with guns and, you know, baseball bats sitting there? Or do you see a bunch of friends? Right, So and then it's that same split. Second, a secondary appraisal happens to the primary. That's secondary being. Do I have the resources to cope with this? And that is really what dictates what type of response and house is going to send. Oh, are the brain will send to the body to stimulate what side of the annulment? Nervous system. Right. So if I walk in, I say what? I don't like this. Tio. Hey, I've been in this scenario before. It didn't go well. That's when that sympathetic sent a kick on because I got to get out of here verses. I walk into that same place. It's a bunch of friends, You know, It's my old buddy from college. You're gonna have a completely different mobilization of your transmitters of hormones. Because of your perception of the stressor is completely different. And you mentioned you stress distress. And I think that that's the case for everything, because, uh, not to go on a rant. But if you if you take an athlete who loves running, that stress of running is completely different than an athlete who doesn't like running right. So their perception of an activity, albeit the same activity, will have a different psycho physiological manifestation of stress or load on the body. And so I think, as we talk about mental toughness with our athlete, even all of that ultimately comes down to have you put them in such situations to prepare them, have confidence in them. And that's what's going to dictate some of these positive body responses that you'll see because they'll walk up to that playing go. Yep. Done this a million times, and that is where you kind of have that mental resilience versus I don't know what's gonna happen. I've never done this before. If I miss, it's going to be the game. Aunt. I think when we talk about all of performance in psychology and physiology. It's so intertwined you cannot separate them, and we like to separate things we like to have absolute. We like to wear a monitor on a wrist or a chest that tells us we're tired or that tells us we've been too stressed. But the reality is, is that the individual differences in perception of stress and my ability, my body's ability to adapt to that stress based on what type of internal environment is kind of walking around twenty four hours a day is going to dictate everything. And that's why it's really tough and in a team environment for us to just blast everybody and say We're gonna stress, you know, we're going to internal load monitoring by H. R. V. Well, that's fantastic and I think there's there's marriage of that. So I'm not saying there isn't what. You better make sure you know a lot about your athletes. You better make sure you have the time to learn about their personalities, how they handle things, What type of family experiences, a fat, what type of things go into them making decisions about what they're experiencing. >> Gotcha. So that I couldn't agree more. Yeah, that's beautifully said one things you mentioned. There was the idea of HRT, but also the idea of perception. So H R v being a reflection on Amit nervous system and compared to your own baseline when your H R V numbers lower means you have less variability that, essentially inferring a higher level of sympathetic drive when you're HIV is higher, infers a more balanced eight or more parasympathetic state, essentially less sympathetic, right? Right. And so we start using H R V, and we talk about that as an internal tool. They also mentioned the idea ofthe having individuals be in situations that are similar to that of sport. Do you think there's a time and place for real time H R V feedback and HIV training? And would you possibly put someone in a situation where they're trying to score that goal? Maybe you fatigued them with, say, a sled push or prowler push and then you have there HIV tank. And they have to perform a difficult technical task in attempt to have them auto regulate that H R V. So they can perform that task successfully, making training and skill development much more specific and begin to messed together. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's biofeedback. Wanna one, right? That's that's ah, thought technology, heart, math. All those companies out there using that with Forman psychologists to see how people a handle the stressors implied on them. But how did they bounce back? So the military has been doing this for years and live monitoring H R V on some of the operators and then watching them perform. You know, they're training, going through selection and training bases where they have Tio ah, handle extremely dynamic and challenging environments where they're under watch, their being scrutinised every step of the way. And so what we've actually seen is that people who on average, you know it's not. There's anomalies of force. People who take the hit right, so you'll see a drop in H R B or increasing sympathetic tone. They will actually bounce back, though, so having a stressor impact your your your body is is normal. But the ability to rebound and kind of come back to those norms within a relatively quick period of time is what is critical for high performance. You know, they talked about having a five minute or a three hundred feet average prior to that activity to get a baseline. What we found in some of the research coming out now you can actually probably cut it down to one two, three minutes. Right? So it becomes much more, I guess. Logistically feasible. Tohave guys sit around for one to three minutes, kind of collect that boarding for baseline and then go about their day. And that's really critical to get that that daily baseline. Because as we talked about, if you're on day six of AH long week, your body is functioning and flowing. Ah, and kind of repair mode. It's trying to keep up with what you've been putting it through. So each day that you wake up, you are gonna be slightly different than what you do where for. So it's not an apples, apples. You gotta look at your ability to flux in that Alice static load and your body's proactive decision making to try and match what it was doing in the prior day's training. Evolution >> Dacha. So H r v itself. I refer to the check engine light because it doesn't necessarily come from one area and come from emotional you, Khun, Stub your toe. You can have a lower H R V. And some of the things I've been reading about lately and talking to you about office, podcast or text message and kindly enough, you respond to my random texts at nine thirty at night with a slew of articles and ten questions, has been a nutritional side right and the idea of low level systemic inflammation or inadequate nutrition. What I mean by that is, I will put in food into her body under the assumption that this is going to give us a positive effect. Really. Sometimes the food that we put into our body are causing a stressor on our system, because either, eh, they're so foreign to us in regards to weigh their process or be too simple sugars. And them and I mean simple in terms of your eating a fruit loop have an effect on our body that can take us down a road that necessarily isn't positive for adaptation. And just like H. R. V. Is affected by your psychological perception, I've been read a little bit about H. R V is a kind of systemic monitor and how it could be influenced by nutrition in regards that nutritional aspect. I know we've talked a little bit about biomarkers and some of the diving deep into internal medicine and understanding that our body is very complex. It's made of of all these subsystems and how one subsystem acts might affect how another subsystem acts. And as we gain these risk factors of an adequate nutrients status, our overall risk profile increases and the idea that we might have an emergent pattern in terms of illness manifests increases. So I want to hear some of your thoughts on some of the internal medicine where that's going in regards to bio markers for athletics, human performance and just general wellness. I know you're not a physician and you're not ordering bloodwork and diagnosing off blood work. But being a sports scientist, I do think it's important to appreciate and understand some of these concepts, and you have a great indepth knowledge in this area. So I love to hear a little more about it. >> Yeah, no, I think that's an area and by no means a mine expert, right? I just read a lot of things and copy what other people say so I have to always say that. No, that's what we always hang her hat on is that if you go through the research, you're basically taking somebody else's thoughts interpreting to your own. So my experiences with this, our personal and what I've seen in a professional setting and all kind of touched on the personal piece because I think you know, as we talked about being an athlete and understanding what people go through, our own experiences can drive a lot of how we make decisions with their athletes or are clients or whoever working with and that basically, for twenty five years of my life I've been on some form of allergy medicine allergies, shot decongestant Z Pac to get rid of a sinus infection, you name it. I had, I had and I had multiple sci affections every year and not one time. I want your nose and throat, Doctor Otto. You know, allergy specialists now, one time to never anyone ever bring up what you're putting in your body. And you know, it took you know, I went toe doctor Dima Val seminar last summer and it took ah, somebody while he's very good, but it took somebody to kind of like, say, Hey, man, like it's not just isolating the symptom and given you an anti histamine or something like that, you got to think that you're in a systemic state of inadequacy. Your body doesn't have the ability to recognize normal nutrients as you eat things. But then also, it doesn't have the ability to recognize, um, some of the I guess the things that are supposed to be normal now become pathological. And it's just complete dysfunctional cycle. And so for me, I literally just He said, Hey, do me a favor. Stop eating dairy. Okay? Yeah, I love cheese, but we'll do that. And I literally and within three to four days, every single allergies symptom. I had one away. I haven't had any issues for seven and a half months. While legal thing, >> I >> haven't had any issues. Haven't got sick once. And it was just one thing come to find out. I have a lactose allergy. And not only does it didn't affect me like g I distress, but it effects chronic states of allergies. So my body was perceiving things as, ah, the enemy and the immune system was essentially creating that inflammatory response to deal with them s So I think that first and foremost, I started just looking at Maybe people are eating things that they may have a low grade flamer. Inflammatory response. Tio, Um, I was taking and sets staking insides like there were Andy since I was sixteen years old. You know, being an athlete, you get off him a practice, your knees hurt, ankle hurts. Whatever happens, you know, you just take him so that you can, um >> you know, keep >> on going toe to practice. The next day, um, I was taking CPAC's >> is >> taking prednisone. All these things basically put my spotty in a state of in a state of shock to a point where it can actually regulate normal. >> So just take that >> into my work and special environment. And we have athletes who were under that significant academic stress, social stress and the physical stress. Well, we also see is they're just like me. And then they were taken and said they were taken. You know, prednisone. They're taking quarter to steroids for asthma, exercise induced asthma. They were taking all these things that basically is driving the body into a state of alarm where it doesn't have a normalcy to it. So we're not seeing the immune system actually do its job. We're seeing chronic sympathetic response basically to everything that's being put into the body. So with that low grade inflammation that's happening over weeks, months, years, you get that inability to handle external loads, then that's where than internal load becomes so critical. But what once is, maybe a resilient person now they're getting the sniffles every three weeks now they're walking around with some type of tell, ephemeral and an itis. Ah, no. I think that we so easily look at Oh, they landed on it funny and practice. Oh, they took a bump or a bruise for somebody. But maybe that is exacerbated. Or maybe that's highly sensitive due to the fact that the body isn't able to function under normal circumstances. >> No, that's there's a lot of topics in that one dive into you. Um, I guess what is immediate topics that's most applicable for individuals, the idea of in said's and how? I mean, when I was in ah, middle school, I must have taken maybe six, four, five before a game when I was playing, and it felt nothing. Elements. I can only imagine what that's doing to my internal, You know, my, my style making my gastric system and how much to chewed up. Yeah, that's a lot of information that's come out regarding tendon healing and the adaptations of it, um, you've taught me well, I think the first one to bring this to my attention on some of the detriments of and said itself and some of the alternative we could possibly have, such as your human and things that don't necessarily tear our system up. Um, you give any thoughts on that and how that might play a role than Okay. We have this functional medicine world. Now, how do we apply that into, you know, physical therapy. And if we're trying to have ten and adaptations in regards to Isometrics, you might be doing them to increase longevity and reduced to an apathy or for film someone up with insides. Are we really getting the bang for the buck we want to get or we just causing more harm than good? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think you know, you said it right there and that. Are you taking that risk reward on using that, like, a short term? Ah, you know that hill, Teo, is it overriding what you truly want in the long term? Okay, so we talked about adaptation you mentioned Well, we've seen that and sides actually have. Ah, a destruction of satellite cells. So when you're normally building muscle and you're having some of these repair sells, Memento help stimulate regeneration and says, Well, actually blunt that response to Seo X one and two being the primary enzymes associated with that, we'll actually get shut down. Ah, And when they dio, you're literally stopping your body from adapting. Growing. So I talked to my soccer team all the time about I'm like, does it. You guys, You want you're wearing the sleepless shirts. You want to fill those things out? Let's not wait from what already isn't there, you know? And I think you know when we start looking at As you mentioned it, healing in the early stage returned to play. And now I'm never going to say, Hey, you know, you shouldn't do that. That's always up to the doctors and the medical professionals. But I think that there is lack of thought for our long term. Ah, mala dictations. So you mentioned, do we alter college and proliferation for the expense of just taking down some swelling and irritation? Maybe that paper's the response can be better handled by Tylenol or whatever else somebody thinks because I think it's critical. Especially, you know, you see the two different primary types intelligent Type one and Type three. They've seen that there is a blunted response and how that tendon regenerates. And so I think, you know, little things like that. Those conversations you have with your athletic trainer or your doctor and be like, Hey, is this absolutely necessary? I'm not questioning your rationale. But does this athlete need that? Or is there something else we can do? Is going to make sure that when I am doing the Afar or whatever before ISOs to maximize ah tended thickness or tendon restructuring or whatever I'm doing. Are we going to the baby? Out with the bath water? Are we gonna hurt something, You know, for the expense of you know what's easy and what we know from a Western medical model. >> Yeah, that's it. Very interesting moment. Thanks. By the way, I wanna clarify For those not familiar with terminology and says or non sorry, chase, I letyou go ahead there up the real quick and sense of things like ibuprofen and Advil around non steroidal anti inflammatory. Um, what's the d stand for? I'm forgetting right now. Feels stupid. Now draw. Go. Okay. There you go. Yeah, perfect things like ibuprofen and no Advil. I should take like six angel's before I play basketball. Because when it came out, I knew no better. It made me feel better and take more than barrier against coming out that we're really tearing up our system. What's interesting is we look at some of the inflammation studies. You look at older adults. It brings up the idea that as we age, we get in such an inflammatory state. We're taking things like insects, which are known to possibly reduce adaptation shins. And individuals were healthy. It actually increases muscle growth and some of the older adults because their level of inflammation, it's so high systemically that taking something as like an insider Advil, which we think is bad, actually increases adaptation. And they just show I just read a paper. Probably thirty men, too. For this that showed Curcumin has a potential effects to do the same, which might be a healthier alternative to end, says regards to reducing inflammation.

from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation hello and welcome to this special cube conversation here in Palo Alto California cube headquarters I'm Jennifer echoes the cube our guest here is Megan Eisenberg CMO of a new hot company called trip actions formerly the CMO at MongoDB before that taki sign we've known each other some advisory boards great to see you yes great to see you as well so exciting new opportunity for you at trip actions just transitioned from MongoDB which by the way had great earnings they did what was the big secret to Mongo DB z earnings tell us well it's fresh and I think they're executing and their growth is amazing they're bringing their costs down I mean they're they've got product market fit their developers love them and so I'm proud and not surprised you're there for four years yeah transformed their go-to market so that fruits coming off the tree yes yeah it's exciting to see the you know process people technology all coming together and seeing them scale and do so well in the markets yes you know being here in 20 years living in California Palo Alto you see the rocket ships the ones that flame out the ones that make it and there's a pattern right when you start to see companies that are attracting talent ones that have pedigree VCS involved yeah raising the kind of rounds in a smart way where there's traction product market fit you kind of take special notice and one of the companies that you're now working for trip actions yes seems to have the parameters so it's off the pad it's going up its orbit or taking off you guys have really growing you got a new round of funding one hundred fifty million dollars yes unique application in a market that is waiting to be disrupted yes travel about company you work for transactions trip actions is a fast growing business travel platform we service customers like we work slack zoom box and we're growing we're adding 200 customers a month and it's amazing just to see these fast-growing companies right when they hit product market fit I think the keys are they've gotten a massive addressable market which we have 800 billion online travel they're solving a pain and they're disrupting a legacy the legacy providers that are out there we're three and a half years old and we are you know really focused on the customer experience giving you the choice that you want when you book making it easy down to six minutes not an hour to book something and we've got 24/7 support which not many can compete with you know it's interesting you know I look at these different ways of innovation especially SAS and mobile apps you know chapter one of this wave great economics yeah and once you get that unit economics visibility say great SAS efficacious happened but now we're kind of in a chapter two I think you guys kind of fit into this chapter to where it's not just SAS cuz you know we've seen travel sites get out there you book travel it's chapter two of SAS is about personalization you see machine learning you got cloud economics new ventures are coming out of the woodwork where you could take a unique idea innovate on it and disrupt a category that seems to be what you guys are doing talk about this new dynamic because this is not just another travel app when you guys are doing gets a unique angle on this applying some tech with the Corpse talked about that this chapter to kind of assess business I think when I think about chapter 2 I think about all the data that's out there I think about the machine learning I think about how we understand the user and personalize everything to them to make it frictionless and these apps that I love on my phone are because they they know what I want before I want it and I just took a trip to Dallas this week and the app knew I needed to check in it was one click told me my flight was delayed gave me options checked me in for my hotel I mean it was just amazing experience that I haven't seen before and it's really if you think about that that business travel trip there's 40 steps you have to do along the way there's got to be a way to make it easier because all we want to do is get to the business meeting and get back we don't want to deal with weather we don't want to deal with Hotel issues or flight changes and our app is specific to when you look at it you've got a chat 24/7 and someone's taking care of you that concierge service and we can do that because the amount of data we're looking at we're learning from it and we make it easier for travel manager half the people go rogue and don't even book through their travel solution it's because it's not tailored to them so this is the thing I want to get it so you guys aren't like a consumer app per se you have a specific unique target audience on this opportunity its travel management I'm I'm gonna date myself but back when I broke into the business they would have comes like Thomas Cook would handle all the travel for youlet Packard when I worked there in the 80s and you had these companies I had these contracts and they would do all the travel for the employees yes today it's hard to find that those solutions out there yes I would say it's hard to find one that you love and trip Actions has designed something that our travelers love and it is it's for business travel it's for your business trips it's taking care of your air your hotel your car your rail whatever you need and making sure that you can focus on the trip focus on getting there and not just the horrible experience we've all had it you travel a lot I traveled certainly back and forth to the East Coast and to take those problems away so I can focus on my business is what it's so just just look at this right so you guys are off to unicorn the funding great valuation growing like crazy got employees so people looking for jobs because they're hiring probably yeah but you're targeting not consumers to download the app it's for businesses that want to have company policies and take all that pressure off yes of the low so as a user can't buy myself can't just use the app or get I know you can Nano that's the the the whole thing is that as a user there's three things we're providing to one inventory and choice so you go and you know all the options you get the flight you want it's very clear and art we have a new storefront where it shows you what's in policy what's not so we've got that its ease of use it's booking quickly nobody wants to waste time dealing with this stuff right you want to go in booked quickly and then when you're on the trip you need 24/7 support because things go wrong airline travel gets cancelled weather happens you need to change something in your trip and so yes the user has the app on their phone can book it can you do it fast and can get support if they need it so stand alone usually can just use it as a consumer app but when you combine with business that's the magic that you guys see is that the opportunity yes I should say as a consumer as a business traveler so you're doing it through your company so I'm getting reimbursed for the companies the company is your customer yes the company's our customer is the traveler yes okay got it so if we want to have a travel desk in our company which we don't have yet yes it would we would sign up as a company and then all your employees would have the ease of use to book travel so what happens what's the sum of the numbers in terms of customers you have said 200 month-over-month yes we're over 1500 customers we're adding 200 a month we've got some significant growth it's amazing to see product market and the cost of the solution tell people $25 a booking and there's no add-on costs after that if you need to make as many changes as you need because of the trip calls on it you do it so basically per transaction yes well Little Feat one of our dollars yes okay so how do you guys see this growing for the company what's the some of the initiatives you guys are doing a new app yes mo what's what's the plan it's a massive market 800 billion right and we've only just started we've got a lot of customers but we've got many more to go after we are international so we have offices around the world we have an Amsterdam office we've got customers travelling all over so we're you know continuing to deliver on that experience and bringing on more customers we just on-boarded we were ten thousand travelers and will continue to onboard more and more so as head of marketing what's the current staff you have openings you mentioned yet some some some open recs yes yes hi are you gonna build out I've got 20 open Rex on the website so I'm hiring in all functions we're growing that fast and what's the marketing strategy what's your plan can you give it a little teaser on yes thinking core positioning go to market what are some of the things you're thinking about building out marketing CloudStack kind of thing what's what's going on all of these things my three top focuses are one marketing sales systems making sure we have that mark tech stack and that partnership with the sales tech stack second thing is marketing sales alignment that closed-loop we're building we're building pipeline making sure when people come in there's a perfect partnership to service what they need and then our our brand and messaging and it's the phase I love in these companies it's really building and it's the people process and technology to do that in the core positioning is what customer service being the most user-friendly what's the core position we're definitely focused on the traveler I would say we're we're balancing customer experience in making sure we get that adoption but also for the travel managers making sure that they can administer the solution and they get the adoption and we align the ascent in the incentives between the traveler and the travel manager and customer profile what small munis I business to large enterprise we have SMB and we're going all the way up to enterprise yes has it been much of a challenge out there in the business travel side I'm just don't know that's why I'm asking is like because we don't have one I can see our r-cube team having travel challenge we always do no centralizing that making that available but it'd have to be easier is it hard to get is there a lot of business travel firms out there is what are some of the challenges that you guys are going after there well I I think what matters is one picking the solution and being able to implement it quickly we have customers implementing in a week right it's understanding how we load your policies get you on board get your cut you're you're really your employees traveling and so it's pretty fast onboarding and we're able to tailor solutions to what people need what are some of the policies that are typical that might be out there that people like yeah so maybe for hotels you may have New York and your your policy is $500 a night what the I would say a normal typical behavior would someone would book it at $4.99 they go all the way up to the limit we've actually aligned our incentives with the travel managers and the employees and that if you save your company money you save and get rewards back so let's say you book it for 400 that $100 savings $30 goes back to the employee and rewards they can get an Amazon card donate to Cherry charity whatever they'd like to kind of act like an owner cuz they get a kickback yes that's the dot so that's how you an interest adoption yes what other adoption concerns you guys building around with the software and or programs to make it easy to use and we're constantly thinking about the experience we want to make sure just I mean I think about what I used to drive somewhere I'd pull out a map and map it out and then I got lucky and you could do MapQuest and now you have ways we are that ways experience when you're traveling we're thinking about everything you need to do that customer when they leave their front door all the way to the trip all the things that can hang them up along the way we're trying to remove that friction that's a very example I mean Waze is a great service yes these Google Maps or even Apple Maps ways everyone goes to backed away yes yeah I don't I mean ways did cause a lot of Street congestion the back streets of Palo Alto we're gonna expedite our travelers well it's a great utility new company what what attracted you to the opportunity when was some of the because you had a kid going over there MongoDB what it was the yeah motivation to come over to the hot startup yeah you know I love disruptive companies I love massive addressable markets good investors and a awesome mission that I can get behind you know I'm a mom of three kids and I did a lot of travel I'm your typical road warrior and I wanted to get rid of the pain of travel and the booking systems that existed before trip actions and so I was drawn to the team the market and the product that's awesome well you've been a great CMO your career has been phenomenal of great success as a CPM mother of three you know the challenges of juggling all this life is short you got to be using these apps to make sure you get on the right plane I mean I know I'm always getting back for my son's lacrosse game or yes event at school this is these are like it's like ways it's not necessary in the travel portfolio but it's a dynamic that the users care about this is the kind of thing that you guys are thinking about is that right yeah definitely I mean I always think about my mom when she worked in having three daughters and I work and have three daughters I feel like I can do so much more I've got door - I've got urban sitter I've got ways I've got Google Calendar I've got trip actions right I've got all these technologies that allow me to do more and not focus on things that are not that productive and I have no value add on it just makes me more efficient and productive how about some of the tech before we get in some of the industry questions I want to talk about some of the advantages on the tech side is there any machine learning involved what's some what's not what's some of the secret sauce and the app yeah definitely we're constantly learning our users preferences so when you go in we start to learn what you what hotels you're gonna select what where do you like to be near the office do you like to be near downtown we're looking at your flights do aisle window nobody wants middle yes but we're we're learning about your behaviors and we can predict pretty closely one if you're gonna book and two what you're gonna book and as we continue learning you that's why we make you more efficient that's why we can do it in six minutes instead of an hour that's awesome so Megan a lot of things going on you've been a progressive marker you love Terry's tech savvy you've done a lot of implementations but we're in a sea change now where you know people that think differently they gonna think okay I need to be on an app for your case with with business travel it's real policies there so you want to also make it good for the user experience again people centric this personalization has been kind of a cutting edge concept now in this chapter to a lot of CMOS are either they're they're not are trying to get there what are you finding in the industry these days that's a best practice to help people cross that bridge as they think they cracked the code on one side then realize wow it's a whole another chapter to go you know I think traditionally a lot of times we think we need we're aligning very much with sales and that matters that go to market marketing sales aligned but when it comes to products and a customer experience it's that alignment with marketing and the product and engineering team and really understanding the customer and what they want and listening and hearing and testing and and making sure we're partnering in those functions in terms of distribution getting the earned concept what's your thoughts on her and media yeah I mean I definitely think it's the direction right there's a ton of noise out there so you've got to be on topic you've got to understand what people care about you've got to hit them in the channel that they care about and very quick right is you don't have time nobody's gonna watch something that's 30 minutes long you get seconds and so part of the earned is making sure you're relevant you what they care about and they can find you and content big part of that for you guys huge part of it yes and understanding the influencers in the market who's talking about travel who's who is out there leading ahead you know leading in these areas that travel managers go and look to you know making sure we're in front of them and they get to see what we're delivering I like how you got the incentives of the employees to get kind of a line with the business I mean having that kind of the perks yes if you align with the company policies the reward could be a Starbucks card or vacation one more time oh whatever they the company want this is kind of the idea right yeah they kind of align the incentives and make the user experience both during travel and post travel successful that's right yes making sure that they are incented to go but they have a great experience okay if you explain the culture of the company to someone watching then maybe interested in using the app or buying you guys as a team what's the trip actions culture like if you had to describe it yeah I would say one we love travel too we are fast growing scaling and we're always raising the bar and so it's learning and it's moving fast but learning from it and continually to improve it's certainly about the user all of the users so not just the travel manager but our travelers themselves we love dogs if you ever come to the Palo Alto office we've got a lot of dogs we love our pups and just you know building something amazing and it's hard to be the employees gonna know that's a rocket ship so it's great get a hold on you got a run hard yes that's the right personality to handle the pace because you're hiring a lot of people and I think that's a part of the learning we need continual learning because we are scaling so fast you have to reinvent what we need to do next and not a lot of people have seen that type of scale and in order to do it you have to learn and help others learn and move fast well great to see you thanks for coming in and sharing the opportunity to give you the final plug for the company share what who you what positions you're hiring for what's your key hires what are you guys trying to do give a quick plug to the company yeah so I mean we've grown 5x and employees so we're hiring across the board from a marketing standpoint I'm hiring in content and product marketing I'm hiring designers I'm hiring technical I you know I love my marketing technology so we're building out our tech stack our website pretty much any function all right you heard it here trip actions so when you get the product visibility those unit economics as they say in the VC world they've got a rocket ship so congratulations keep it up yeah now you're in palo alto you can come visit us here anytime yes love to Meagen Eisenberg CMO trip access here inside the cube I'm John Ferrier thanks for watching you [Music]

[Narrator] - You are a CUBE Alumni. (cheerful music) Live, from Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Covering Google cloud Next '17 (rhythmic electronic music) >> Welcome back everyone. We're live here in the Palo Alto Studio for theCUBE, our new 4500 square foot studio we just moved into a month and a half ago. I'm John Furrier here, breaking down two days of live coverage in-studio of Google Next 2017, we have reporters and analysts in San Francisco on the ground, getting all the details, we had some call-ins. We're also going to call in at the end of the day to find out what the reaction is to the news, the key-notes, and all the great stuff on Day one and certainly Day two, tomorrow, here in the studio as well as in San Francisco. My next guest is Tyler Bell, good friend, industry guru, IOT expert, he's been doing a lot of work with IOT but also has a big data background, he's been on theCUBE before. Tyler, great to see you and thanks for coming in today. >> Thanks, great to be here. >> So, data has been in your wheelhouse for long time. You're a product guy, and The cloud is the future hope, it's happening big-time. Data, the Edge, with IOT is certainly part of this network transformation trend. And, certainly now, machine-learning and AI is now the big buzzword. AI, kind of a mental-model. Machine-learning, using the data. You've been at the front-end of this for years, with data and Factual and Mapbox, your other companies you worked for. Now you have data sets. So before it was like a ton of data, and now it's data sets. And then you got the IOT Edge, a car, smart city, a device. What's you take on the data intersecting with the cloud? What are the key paradigms that are colliding together? >> Yeah, I mean the reason IOT is so hot right now is really 'cause it's connecting a number of things that are also hot. So, together, you get this sort of conflagration of fires, technology fires. So, on one side you've got massive data sets. Just huge data sets about people, places and things that allow systems to learn. So, on the other end, you've got, basically, large-scale computation, which isn't only just available, it's actually accessible and it's affordable. Then, on the other end, you've got massive data collection mechanisms. So, this is anything from the mobile phone that you'll hold in your pocket, to a LIDAR, a laser-based sensor on a car. So, this combination of massive, hardware derived data collection mechanisms, combined with a place to process it, on the cloud, do so affordably. In addition to all the data, means that you get this wonderful combination of the advent of AI and machine-learning, and basically the development of smart systems. And that's really what everybody's excited about. >> It's kind of intoxicating to think about, from a computer science standpoint, this is the nirvana we've been thinking about for generations. With the compute now available, we have, it's just kind of coming together. What are the key things that are merging in your mind? 'Cause you've been doing a lot of this big data stuff. When I say big, I mean large amounts, large-scale data. But as it comes in, as they say, the world's, the future's here, but it's evenly distributed. You could also say that same argument for data. Data's everywhere, but it's not evenly distributed. So, what are some of the key things that you see happening that are important for people to understand with data, in terms of using it, applying it, commercializing it, leveraging it? >> Yeah, what you see, or what you have seen previously is the idea of data, in many people's minds, has been a data base or it's been sort of a CSV file of rows and columns and it's been this sort of fixed entity. And what you're seeing now is that, and that's sort of known as structure data, and what you're seeing now is the advent of data analytics that allow people to understand and analyze loose collections of data and begin to sort of categorize and classify content. In ways that people haven't been able to do so previously. And so, whereas you used to have just a data base of sort of all the places on the globe or a whole bunch of people, right now you can have information about, say, the images that camera sensors on your car sees. And because the systems have been trained about how to identify objects or street signs or certain behaviors and actions, it means that your systems are getting smarter. And so what's happening here is that data itself is driving this trend, where hardware and sensors, even though they're getting cheaper and they're getting increasingly commoditized, they're getting more intelligent. And that intelligence is really driven by, fundamentally, it's driven by data. >> I was having a conversation, yesterday, at Stanford there was a conference going on around bias and data. Algorithms now have bias, gender bias, male bias, but it brings up this notion of programmability and one of the things that some of the early thinkers around data, including yourself, and also we extend that out to IOT, is how do you make data available for software programs, for the learning piece? Because that means that data's now an input into the software development process, whether that's algorithms on the fly being developed in the future or data being part of the software development kit, if you will. Is that a fantasy or is that gettable, is that in reach? Is it happening? Making data part of that agile process, not just a call to a data base? >> Exactly, a lot of the things, the most valuable assets now are called basically labeled data sets, where you could say that this event or this photo or this sound even has been classified as such. And so it's the bark of a dog or the ring of a gunshot. And those labeled data sets are hugely valuable in actually training systems to learn. The other thing is, if you look at it from, say, AV, which has a lot in common with IOT, but the data set is less about a specific sort of structured or labeled event or entity. And instead, it's doing something like putting, there's one company where you can put your camera on the dashboard of your car and then you drive around and all this does is just records the images and records which way your car goes, and, that's actually collecting and learning data. And so, that kind of information is being used to teach cars how to drive and how to react in different circumstances. And so, on one hand, you've got this highly-structured labeled data, on the other hand, it's almost machine behavioral data, where to teach a car how to drive, cars need to understand what that actually entails. >> Yeah, one of the things we talked about on Google Next earlier in the day, when we saw a couple earlier segments. I was talking about, I didn't mean this as a criticism to the enterprise, but I was just saying, Google might want to throttle back their messaging or their concepts. Because the enterprise kind of works at a different pace. Google is just this high-energy, I won't say academic, but they're working on cutting-edge stuff. They have things like Maps, and they're doing things that are just really off the charts, technically. It's just great technical prowess. So, there's a disconnect between enterprise stuff and what I call 'pure' Google cloud. The question that's now on the table is, now with the advent of the IOT, industrial IOT, in particular, enterprises now have to be smarter about analog data, meaning, like the real world. How do you get the data into the cloud from a real-world perspective? Do you have any insight on that? it's something that hard to kind of get, but you mentioned that cam on the car, you're essentially recording the world, so that's the sky, that's not digitized. You're digitizing an analog signal. >> Yeah, that's right. I think I'd have two notes there. The first is that, everything that's going on that's exciting, is really at this nexus between the real world, that you and I operate in now and how that's captured and digitized, and actually collected online so it can be analyzed and processed and then affected back in the real world. And so, when you hear about IOT and cars, of course there are sensors, which basically do a read type analysis of the real world, but you also have affecters which change it and servos, which turn your tires or affect the acceleration or the braking of a vehicle. And so, all these interesting things that are happening now, and it really kicked off, of course, with the mobile phone, is how the online, data-centric, electric world connect with the real world. And all of that's really, all that information is being collected is through an explosion of sensors. Because you just have, the mobile phone supply chains are making cameras, and barometers, and magnetometers, all of these things are now so increasingly inexpensive that when people talk about sensors, they don't talk about one thousand dollar sensor that's designed to do one thing, instead there's thousands of $1 sensors. >> So, you've been doing a lot of work with IOT, almost the past year, you've been out in the IOT world. Thoughts on how the cloud should be enabled or set up for ingesting data or to be architected properly for IOT-related activities, whether it's Edge data store, or Edge Data, I mean, we have little things as boring as backup and recovery are impacted by the cloud. I can imagine that the IOT world, as it collides in with IT, is going to have some reinvention and reconstruction. Thoughts on what the cloud needs to do to be truly IOT ready? >> Yeah, there's some very interesting things that are happening here and some of them seem to be in conflict with each other. So, the cloud is a critical part of the IOT entire stack and it really goes from the device of a sensor, all the way to the cloud. And what you're getting is you are getting providers, including Google and Amazon and SAP and there's over 370, last count, IOT platform providers. Which are basically taken their particular skill set and adjusted it and tweaked it and they now say that we now have an IOT platform. And in traditional cloud services, the distinguishing features are things like being able to have record digital state of sensors and devices, sort of 'shadow' states, increased focus on streaming technology over MAP-reduced batch technology, which you got in the last 10 years, through the big data movement, and the conversations that you and I have had previously. So, there is that focus on streaming, there is a IOT-specific feature stack. But what's happening is that because so much data is being corrected. Let's imagine that you and I are doing something where we're monitoring the environment, using cameras, and we have 10,000 cameras out there. And, this could be within a vehicle, it could be in a building, or smart city, or in a smart building. Cameras are, the cloud traditionally accepts data from all these different resources, be it mobile phones, or terminals and collects it, analyzes it, and spits it back out in some kind of consumable format. But what's happening now is that IOT and the availability of these sensors is generating so much data that it's inefficient and very expensive to send it all back to the cloud. And so all of these-- >> And, it's physics, too. There's a lot of physics, right? >> Exactly, and all these cameras sending full raster images and videos back to the cloud for analysis. Basically the whole idea of real time goes away if you have that much data, you can't analyze it. So, instead of just the cameras sending out a single dumb raster image back, you teach the camera to recognize something, So you could say "I recognize a vehicle in this picture" or "I recognize a stop sign" or a street light. And instead of sending that image back to be analyzed on the cloud, the analysis is done on the device and then that entity is sent back. And so, the sensor says "I saw this stop sign "at this point, at this time in my process." >> So this cuts back to the earlier point you were making about the learning piece, and the libraries, and these data sets. Is that kind of where that thread connects? >> Exactly, so to build the intelligence on the device, that intelligence happens on the cloud. And so, you need to have the training sets and you need to have massive GPUs and huge computational power to instruct. >> Thanks Intel and NVIDIA, we need more of those, right? >> Indeed, and so, that's what's happening on the cloud, and then those learnings are basically consolidated and then put up on the device. And, the device doesn't need the GPUs, but the device does need to be smart. And so, in IOT, especially look for companies that understand, especially hardware companies, that understand that the product, as such, is no longer just a device, it's no longer just a sensor, it's an integral combination of device, intelligence platform in the cloud, and data. >> So, talk about the notion of, let's talk about the reconstruction of some of the value creation or value opportunities with what you just talked about 'cause if you believe what you just said, which I do believe is right on the money, that this new functionality, vis-a-vis, the cloud, and the smart ads and learning ads, and software, is going to change the nature of the apps. So, if I'm a cloud provider, like Google or Amazon, I have to then have the power in the cloud, but it's really the app game, it's the software game that we're talking about here. It's the apps themselves. So, yeah, you might have an atom processor has two cores versus 72 cores, and xeon, and the cloud. Okay, that's a device thing, but the software itself, at the app level, changes. Is that kind of what's happening? Where's the real disruption? I guess what I'm trying to get at is that, is it still about the apps? >> Yeah, so, I tend not to think about apps much anymore, and I guess, if you talk to some VCs, they won't think about apps much anymore either. It's rather, it tends to, you and I still think, and I think so many of us in Silicone Valley, still think of mobile phones as being the end point for both data collection and data effusion. But, really one of the exciting things about IOT now, is that it's moving away from the phone. So, it's vehicles, it's the sensors in the vehicles, it's factories, and the sensors in the factories, and smart cities. And so, what that means is you're collecting so much more data, but also, you're also being more intelligent about how you collect it. And so, it's less about the app and it's much more about the actual intelligence, that's baked into the silicon layer, or the firmware of the device. >> Yeah, I tried to get you on their Mobile World Congress special last week and we're just booked out. But I know you go to Mobile World Congress, you've been there a lot. 5G was certainly a big story there. They had the new devices, the new LG phones, all the sexy glam. But, the 5G and the network transformation becomes more than the device, so you're getting at the point which is it's not about the device anymore, it's beyond the device, more about the interplay between the back at the network. >> It is, it's the full stack, but also it's not just from one device, like the phone is one human, one device, and then that pipeline goes into the cloud, usually. The exciting thing about IOT and the general direction that things are moving now, it's what can thousands of sensors tell us? What can millions of mobile phones, driven over a 100 million miles of road surface, what can that tell us about traffic patterns or our cities? So, the general trend that you're seeing here is that it's less about two eyeballs and one phone and much more about thousands and millions of sensors. And then how you can develop data-centric products built on that conflagration of all of that data coming in. And how quickly you can build them. >> We're here with Tyler Bell, IOT Expert, but also data expert, good friend. We both have kids who play Lacrosse together, who are growing up in front of our eyes, but let's talk about them for a second, Tyler. Because they're going to grow up in a world where it's going to be completely different, so kind of knowing what we know, and as we tease-out the future and connect the dots, what are you excited about this next generation's shift that happening? If you could tease-out some of the highlights in your mind for, as our kids grow up, right, you got to start thinking about the societal impact from algorithms that might have gender bias, or smart cities that need to start thinking about services for residents that will require certain laning for autonomous vehicles, or will cargo (mumbles). Certainly, car buying might shift. They're cloud-native, they're digital-native. What are you excited about, about this future? >> Yeah, I think it's, the thing that's, I think, so huge that I have difficulty looking away from it, is just the impact, the societal impact that autonomous vehicles are going to have. And so, really, not only as our children grow up, but certainly their children, our grandchildren, will wonder how in the heck we were allowed to drive massive metal machines, and just anywhere-- >> John: With no software. >> Yeah, with really just our eyeballs and our hands, and no guidance and no safety. Safety's going to be such a critical part of this. But, it's not just the vehicle, although that's what's getting everybody's attention right now, it's really, what's going to happen to parking lots in the cities? How are parking lots and curb sides going to be reclaimed by cities? How will accessibility and safety within cities be affected by the ability to, at least in principle, just call an autonomous vehicle at any time, have it arrive at your doorstep, and take you where you need to go? What does that look like? It's going to change how cars are bought and sold, how they're leased. It's going to change the impact of brands, the significance of, are these things going to be commoditized? But, ultimately, I think, in terms of societal impact, we have, for generations, grown up in an automotive world, and our grandchildren will grow up in an automotive world, but it will be so changed 'cause it will impact entirely what our cities and our urban spaces look like. >> The good news is when they take our drivers licenses away when we're 90, we'll, at least be able to still get into a car. >> There's places we can go. >> We can still drive (laughs) >> Exactly, exactly, the time is right. We may not have immortality, but we will be able to get from one place to another in our senility. >> We might be a demographic to buy a self-driving car. Hey, you're over 90, you should buy a self-driving car. >> Well, it'll be more like a consortium. Like you, I, and maybe 30 other people. We have access to a car or fleet. >> A whole new man cave definition to bring to the auto,. Tyler, thanks for sharing the insight, really appreciated the color commentary on the cloud, the impact of data, appreciate it. We're here for the two days of coverage of Google Next here inside theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. More coverage coming up after this short break. (cheerful music) (rhythmic electronic music) >> I'm George--

I[Announcer] Live from Silicon Valley, it's "The Cube." Covering Mobile World Congress 2017. Brought to you by Intel. >> 'Kay welcome back everyone, we are live in Palo Alto for "The Cube" special coverage of Mobile World Congress 2017. We're in our new 4,500 square foot studio, just moved in. We'll be expanding, you'll see a lot more in-studio coverage from "The Cube" as well as our normal going out to the events and extracting. Anyways I'm John Furrier Joining me is Jeff Frick. General manager of "The Cube." But a breakdown, all the action. As you know, we do a lot of data science. We've been watching the grid. We've been on the treadmill all weekend. All last week, digging into the Mobile World Congress. Sentiment, the vibe, the direction, and trying to synthesize all the action. And really kind of bring it all together for everyone here. And of course,we're doing it in Palo Alto. We're going to bring folks in from Silicon Valley that could not have made the trek to Barcelona. We're going to be talking to folks on the phone, who are in Barcelona. You heard from Lynn Comp from Intel. We have Floyd coming up next. CTO and SAP breaking down all the action from their new cloud. And big Apple news. SAP now has a general availability of the iOS native development kit. Which should change the game for SAP. There is tons of smart cities, smart stadiums, you know IOT, autonomous vehicles. So much going on at Mobile World Congress. We're going to break that down every day starting at 8AM. In-studio. And of course, I want to thank Intel for headlining our sponsorship and allowing us to create this great content. With some contributing support from SAP clouds I want to give a shout out, a bit shout out to Intel. Check out their booth. Check out their coverage. And check out their new SAP cloud, that's been renamed from HANA Cloud to SAP cloud. Without their support we wouldn't be able to bring this wall-to-wall great commentary. Jeff so with that aside. We got two days. We've got Laura Cooney coming in. Bob Stefanski managing this bridge between Detroit and Silicon Valley. And all that great stuff. Phones are ringing off the hook here in the studio. Go tweet us by the way at the cube or at ferrier We have Guy Churchwood coming in. We have great content all week. We have entrepreneurs. We have Tom Joyce, a Cube alumni. Who's an executive interviewing for a bunch of CEO positions. Really going to break down the changing aspect of Mobile World Congress. The iPhone's 10 years old. We're seeing now a new step function of disruption. Peter Burris said the most terrible in time. And I even compounded the words by saying and the phones are getting faster. So it's beyond the device. I mean what are you seeing on the grid? When you look at the data out there? >> John a bunch of things as we've been watching the stream of the data that came in and surprised me. First off just a lot of early announcements around Blackberry and Nokia. Who are often not really mentioned as the leaders in the handsets base. Not a place that we cover real extensively. But really kind of, these guys making a move and really taking advantage of the void that Samsung left with some of the Note issues. But what I thought was even more interesting is on our hashtag monitoring tools that IOT and 5G are actually above any of the handset manufacturers. So it really supports a hypothesis that we have that while handsets will be better and there'll be more data enabled by 5G, what 5G's really all about is as an IOT enabler. And really another huge step in the direction of connected devices, autonomous vehicles. We've talked about it. We cover IOT a lot. But I thought that was pretty interesting. >> Well Robo Car's also in there. That's a. >> Well everybody loves a car right. >> Well it's kind of a symbol of the future of the car. Which again ties it all together. >> Right right. The driverless race car, which is pretty interesting. >> Takes sports to a whole other level. >> I thought that was interesting. Another little thing as we watch these digital assistants and these voice assistants John, and I got a couple for Christmas just so I could try them out, is that Motorola announced that they're going to partner with Alexa. And use the Alexa voice system inside of their phones. You know I'm still waiting, I don't know why Siri doesn't have a stand-alone device and really when you use a Google Home versus an Amazon Alexa, very different devices, really different kind of target. So I thought that was an interesting announcement that also came out. But fundamentally it's fun to see the support of IOT and 5G, and really enable this next great wave of distribution, disruption, and opportunity. >> We're going to have Saar Gillia in the studio later today and tomorrow as a guest analyst for us on "The Cube." Of course folks may know Saar from being on "The Cube," he was recently senior vice reporting to Meg Whitman, and built out that teleco service provider, NFV business model for HP. And he's been to Mobile World Congress almost every year. He didn't make it this year, he'll be coming in the studio. And he told me prior to being, extremely vetting him for "The Cube" if you will, to use a Trump term, after extreme vetting of Saar Gillia he really wants to make the point of, and this is going to be critical analysis, kind of poking a hole into the hype, which is he doesn't think that the technology's ready for primetime. And specifically he's going to comment around he doesn't believe that the apps are ready for all this bandwidth. He doesn't think, he thinks that 5G is a solution looking for a problem. And I don't necessarily agree with him, so we'll have a nice commentary. Look for Saar today on "The Cube," at 11:30 he's coming on. It's going to be a little bit of a cage match there with Saar. >> I always go back to the which is the most underrepresented and most impactful law. Which is probably in the short term, in the hype cycle 5G's probably not going to deliver on their promise up to the level of the hype. As we find over and over with these funny things like Bluetooth. Who would ever think Bluetooth would be such an integral part of so many things that we do today? I think over the long term, the mid term, I think the opportunity's giant. >> I meant I think for people to understand 5G, at least the way I always describe it over the weekend, when I was at lacrosse games and soccer games over the weekend, for the folks that aren't in tech, 5G is the holy grail for IOT, mobile cars, and AI. Because what 5G does, it creates that mesh of rf, or rf radio frequency, at a whole other level. You look at the radios that Intel's announcing across their Telco partners, and what Intel's doing really is a game-changer. And we all know LTE, when the signal's low on the phone, everyone freaks out. We all know when WiFi doesn't work, the world kind of comes to a crawl. I mean just think 15 years ago wifi wasn't even around. So now think about the impact of just what we rely on with the digital plumbing called wireless. >> [Jeff] Right, right. >> When you think about the impact of going around the fiber to the home, and the cost it takes, to bring fiber to, Lynn Comp was commenting on that. So having this massively scalable bandwidth that's a radio frequency wireless is just a game-changing thing you can do. Low latency, 10 20 gig, that's all you need. Then you're going to start to see the phones change and the apps change. And as Peter Burris said a turbulent change of value propositions will emerge. >> It's funny at RSA a couple of weeks back the chatter was the people at RSA, they don't use wifi. You know, they rely on secure mobile networks. And so 5G is going to enable that even more, and as you said, if you can get that bandwidth to your phone in a safer, and secure, more trusted way, you know what is the impact on wifi and what we've come to expect on our devices and the responsiveness. And all that said, there will be new devices, there will be new capabilities. And I guess the other thing that's kind of funny is that of course the Oscar's made their way up to the, on the board. I thought that might wipe everything out after last night. But no IOT and 5G is still above Oscar's on the trending hashtag. >> Well I mean, Oscar's bring up... It's funny we all watch the Oscar's. There was some sort of ploy, but again, you bring up entertainment with the Oscar's. You look at what Hollywood's going through, and the Hollywood Reporter had an article talking about Reed Hastings with Netflix, he talked today really kind of higher end video so the entertainment business is shifting the court cutting is happening, we're seeing more and more what they call over the top. And this is the opportunity for the service providers but also for the entertainment industry. And with social media and with all these four form factors changing the role of media will be a packet data game. And how much can you fit in there? Whether it's e-sports to feature film making, the game is certainly changing. And again, I think Mobile World Congress is changing so radically. It's not just a device show anymore, it's not about the handset. It's about what the enablement is. I think that's why the 5G impact is interesting. And making it all work together, because a car talking to this device, it's complicated. So there's got to be the glue, all kind of new opportunities. So that's what I'm intrigued by. The Intel situation where you've got two chip guys battling it out for who's going to be that glue layer under the hood >> Right and if you look at some of the quotes coming out of the show a lot of the high-level you got to get away from the components and get into the systems and solutions, which we hear about over and over and over again. It's always about systems and solutions. I think they will find a problem to solve, with the 5G. I think it's out there. But it is... >> My philosophy Jeff is kill me with the bandwidth problem. Give me more bandwidth, I will consume more bandwidth. I mean look at compute pal as an example. People thought Morse law was going to cap out a decade ago. You look at the compute power in the chips with the cloud, with Amazon and the cloud providers it's almost infinite computes. So then the role of data comes in. So now you got data, now you got mobile, I think give us more bandwidth, I think the apps have no problem leveling up. >> [Jeff] Sucking it up. >> And that's going to be the debate with Saar. >> It's the old chip. The Intel Microsoft thing where you know, Intel would come out with a faster chip then the OS with eat more of it as part of the OS. And it kept going and going. We've talked through a lot of these John and if you're trying to predict the future and building for the future you really have to plan now for almost infinite bandwidth for free. Infinite storage for free, infinite compute for free. And while those curves are kind of asymptotically free they're not there yet. That is really the world in which we're heading. And how do you reshape the way you design apps, experiences, interphases without those constraints, which before were so so significant. >> I'm just doing a little crowd check here, you can go to crowdcheck.net/mwc if you want to leave news links or check in with the folks chatting. And I was just talking to SAP and SAP had the big Apple news. And one of the things that's interesting and Peter Burris talked about this on our opening this morning is that confluence between the consumer business and then the infrastructures happening. And that it was called devos but now you're starting to see the developers really focusing on the business value of technology. But yet it's not all developers even though people say the developers, the new king-makers, well I would say that. But the business models still is driven by the apps. And I think developers are certainly closer to the front lines. But I think you're going to start to see a much more tighter coupling between the c level folks in business and the developers. It's not just going to be a developer-led 100% direction. Whether it's entertainment, role of data, that's going to be pretty interesting Jeff. >> So Apple's just about finished building the new spaceship headquarters right. I think I opens up next month. I'm just curious to get your take John on Apple. Obviously the iPhone changed the game 10 years ago. What' the next big card that Apple's going to play? 'Cause they seemed to have settled down. They're not at the top of the headlines anymore. >> Well from my sources at Apple, there are many. Deep inside at the highest levels. What I'm hearing is the following. They're doing extremely well financially, look at the retail, look at the breadth of business. I think Tim Cook has done an amazing job. And to all my peers and pundits who are thrashing Apple they just really don't know what they're talking about. Apple's dominating at many levels. It's dominating firstly on the fiscal performance of the company. They're a digital presence in terms of their stickiness is second to none. However, Apple does have to stay in their game. Because all the phone guys they are in essence copying Apple. So I think Apple's going to be very very fine. I think where they could really double down and win on is what they did getting out of the car business. I think that was super smart. There was a post by Auto Blog this weekend saying Silicon Valley failed. I completely disagree with that statement. Although in the short term it looks like on the scoreboard they're kind of tapping out, although Tesla this year. As well as a bunch of other companies. But it's not about making the car anymore. It's all about the car's role in a better digital ecosystem. So to me I think Apple is poised beautifully to use their financial muscle, to either buy car companies or deal with the digital aspect of it and bring that lifestyle to the car, where the digital services for the personalization of the user will be the sticking point for the transportation. So I think Apple's poised beautifully for that. Do they have some issues? Certainly every company does. But compared to everyone else I just see no one even close to Apple. At the financial level, with the cash, and just what they're doing with the tax. From a digital perspective. Now Google's got a self-driving cars, Facebook's a threat, Amazon, so those are the big ones I see. >> The other thing that's happening this week is the game developer conference in San Francisco at Moscone. So you know again, huge consumers of bandwidth, huge consumers of compute power. Not so much storage. I haven't heard much of the confluence of the 5G movement with the game developer conference. But clearly that's going to have a huge impact 'cause most gaming is probably going to move to a more and more mobile platform, less desktop. >> Well the game developer conference, the one that's going on the GDC, is kind has a different vibe right now. It's losing, it's a little bit lackluster in my mind. It's classic conference. It's very monetized. It seems to be over-monetized. It's all about making money rather than promoting community. The community in gaming is shifting. So you can look at how that show is run, versus say e three and now you've got Twitch Con. And then Mobile World Congress, one of the big voids is there's no e-sports conversation. That certainly would be the big thing to me. To me, everything that's going digital, I think gaming is going to shift in a huge way from what we know as a console cult. It's going to go completely mainstream, in all aspects of the device. As 5G overlays on top of the networks with the software gaming will be the first pop. You're going to see e-sports go nuclear. Twitch Con, those kind of Twitch genre's going to expand. Certainly "The Cube" will have in the future a gaming cube. So there'll be a cube anchor desk for most the gaming culture. Certainly younger hosts are going to come one. But to me I think the gaming thing's going to be much more lifestyle. Less culty. I think the game developer conference's lost its edge. >> And one of the other things that comes, obviously Samsung made a huge push. They were advertising crazy last night on the Oscar's, with the Casey add about you know, people are creating movies. And they've had their VR product out for a while but there's a lot of social activity saying what is going to be the killer app that kind of breaks through VR? We know Oculus has had some issues. What do you read in between the tea leaves there John? >> Well it's interesting the Oscar's was awesome last night, I would love to watch the Hollywood spectacle but one of the things that I liked was that segway where they introduced the Oscar's and they kind of were tongue in cheek 'cause no one in Hollywood really has any clue. And they were pandering, well we need to know what they meant. It was really the alpha geeks who were pioneering what used to be the green screen technology now you go and CGI it's our world. I mean I want to see more of that because that is going to be the future of Hollywood. The tools and the technologies for filmmaking is going to have a Morse law-like impact. It's the same as e-sports, you're going to see all kinds of new creative you're going to see all kinds of new tech. They talked about these new cameras. I'm like do a whole show on that, I would love it. But what it's going to enable is you're going to see CGI come down to the price point where when we look at PowerPoints and Adobe Creative Suite and these tools. You're going to start to see some badass creative come down for CGI and this is when the artist aspect comes in. I think art design will be a killer field. I think that is going to be the future of filmmaking. You're going to see an indie market explode in terms of talent. The new voices are going to emerge, the whole diversity thing is going to go away. Because now you're going to have a complete disruption of Hollywood where Hollywood owns it all that's going to get flattened down. I think you're going to see a massive democratization of filmmaking. That's my take. >> And then of course we just continue to watch the big players right. The big players are in here. It's the start ups but I'm looking here at the Ford SAP announcement that came across the wire. We know Ford's coming in at scale as stuff with IBM as well So those people bring massive scale. And scale is what we know drives pricing and I think when people like to cap on Morse law they're so focused on the physical. I think the power of Morse law has nothing to do with the microprocessor per se. But really it's an attitude. Which we talked a little briefly about what does the world look like if you have infinite networking, infinite compute, and infinite storage. And basically free. And if you start to think that way that changes your perspective on everything. >> Alright Jeff well thanks for the commentary. Great segment really breaking down the impact of Mobile World Congress. Again this show is morphing from a device show phone show, to full on end-to-end network. Intel are leading the way and the entire ecosystem on industry partners, going to write software for this whole new app craze, and of course we'll be covering it here all day today Monday the 27th and all the day the 28th. Stay tuned stay watching. We've got more guests coming right back with more after the short break.

from London England extracting the signal from the noise it's the Kuhn covered discover 2015 brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise now your hosts John furrier and Dave vellante okay welcome back everyone we are here live in london england for HPE discover this is silicon angles the cube our flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal from noise i'm john / with my co-host avalon say our next guest scott well our is SVP and general manager HP east technology services support group this guy welcome back you below many times every year great to have you on usually on though usually the first one on every time but now you've schedules packed i made on the last way this time right before questions for you now your last a baby for us welcome back thank you so give us the update from your standpoint it's just every year more and more stuffs happening yeah that requires services especially the technology services this year is composable right Dave and I were talking on the intro HP got it right with converged infrastructure you know right out of the gate and back then kinda people scratching their heads what's converge infrastructure looking back its mainstream now now you have the next bet on compostable we like it I love it a lot yeah now customers probably like oh my got another new thing so how do you guys doing right now with all the changes clouds pretty clear no public cloud good right a lot of private clouds that's yeah good stuff you've been building out right now composable what's the update so you like you said a lot going on we have in in a way reinvented the company which you don't do very often right but i think the the companies that can reinvent at the right times are the ones that survive and thrive and in particular pivoting our strategy around these for transformation areas is really is really important and you'll see the implications of that play out over time like you're seeing some of it now but it really changes the way we think about our customers what what their problems are what we're here to do for them and you're right it's there's a huge service element in that in fact you could even say that a lot of that is service led and so the transformation area work has led to probably 50 distinct solutions that are in every way pan HPE they involve you know it's a pan portfolio pan go to market kind of view on things and so right now you know we have competitors that are single plays you know storage competitors server competitors solution competitors and so we have to do the new we have to do this new view on the world as well as continue to be a fierce competitor right and these in these single play environments so so that's that's a a new challenge for us but I mean it's such an exciting time and just see this i'm actually very proud of what we've been able to do it's really interesting you certainly for your memoirs can put into the book this past couple years and certainly the past year I mean you had the operating as a split entity prior to the official date right huge IT track cross over the engine services workforce plus new hiring for the gaps you we talked about last time so congratulations on that I think really phenomenal yeah I love to drill down on that but I want to get to the point you just mentioned this is interesting in vague as we talked about the services piece viscosity the transformation was laid out them same four pillars right now you're seeing a lot of meat on the bone even how the show's organized it's not by org chart right it's by solutions we see oh yeah how to run your government booth over here that's not a division of age feeds a solution right so tell us what's of all I mean I love this services led angle Dave and I were just talking on the intro about IOT once you get them into the network the methodology for the customer depends on the customer or how they want to get the data function of what the device is right again just a random example but this is the the new normal the services led infrastructure it is and you know I can just tell you from the inside that that this is not market texture that you guys are seeing I mean this is real you know deep into the way the company not only operates and develop solutions and goes to market but again how do we think about what we're here to do for our customers how do we want to show up in in discussions with our customers so so this is a you know I wouldn't say that we're through that I mean we have a lot to learn a lot to do but this is this is definitely a reinvention a rotation for us and the reaction has been incredible and like you said we we made a conscious decision that we would show up here like that like it you know this is we're going to start to live what we really believe we need to do is this new company so it's got an indication of that it's not just market texture it's real it would be how you get measured by customers in it yeah and it used to be okay the projects on budget on time you know successful check and now that's table stakes Wow as you move toward these new four pillars solution areas are the ways in which you're measured changing right so what what we are seeing and experiencing is a shift from sort of like project technical project based of deliverables and have you done that to have you created the business outcome that I intended when I went down this path with Sheila Packard enterprise so and those outcomes are you know contextual their unique fairly unique to the customer situation and it can be anything from have you moved us to hybrid have you have you shown us how we can be a high velocity I tea shop have you have you brought devops into our context and shown us how to be successful so it's those kinds of things about you know are we you know ultimately without the specifics the question is are we helping our customers succeed through IT and and then the the specifics of that context will drive it but that that's really the difference it's not about project outcomes its business outcomes well that's a much more complicated equation for your zero because you check tick off the items and it'll fit you know the earlier days this is not what we delivered and oh the customer didn't exploit it you know because of XYZ man now they're holding you're responsible for the business outcome so how that basically talks some deeper business integration how is that changing the way you go to market your skill sets well you know a few years ago there was a whole question of do I just sell a product and then kind of the customers on their own to get some value out of it and actually for all of us as consumers if we don't use a product we don't we don't know whether we got any benefit obviously and so the companies that make those product would really like us to use them and and and so good things happen when you actually help customers realize the value of their investments with us you take that to the next step and you say you know if you care about whether the customer actually got to what they were planning for intending by working with us that that's a different mindset and it doesn't have to be contractual necessarily it starts with a mindset and then you can write it into contracts and there are ways to do that and we're seeing some of that but really more it's it's a mindset and what are we there to do for them and and yes you you begin just you begin to think about well you know you know maybe this project this this deployment didn't really achieve what they wanted what are we going to do about that together with the customer one of the things that we talked about yesterday with some of the channel partners was his reinvention isn't blurring the lines between of a band a bar and a reseller and distributor right and Carrie Bailey was on from the cloud group and really saying hey you know we should identify the value points and focus on that but I want to ask you on that on that thread because now that brings up the conscience we had again in Vegas which is there's so much work to do on the services side it's almost ridiculous to think about mind blowing and most like how many reference architectures it could be at me right variations it could be so we know you're busy work it away on that now but also now the channel partners are there and there's also the channel conflict so how do you guys because there's a lot of work to do how do you separate what you guys going to do with in HP and go direct to the customers and or right provide to the channel partners in the form of reference architectures because now they're taking the ball yeah and going to the front lines as well so seems to be that's a nice area you guys have managing that what's the thoughts there what's your vision so you know my belief is that actually simplicity is the better outcome you don't want to have a buffet of reference architectures or even products you know you I think our customers and our partners expect us to do our homework segment the market understand what business we're in and have you know enough but no more in terms of products use reference architectures and so on that's part of being a thought leader in this industry from there you're right it comes down to the kind of channel relationships you want the kind of plays you want to run with the channel in some cases it means the channel does everything in some cases it means that the channel you know does one piece of it and the direct is the other piece of it and we're so big and we're global so we have all kinds of buyers you know and we have we have direct customers who buy direct from so for some things and actually work with partners for other things so it's all of the above and we have to harmonize that we have to rationalize that for sure but at times they might not have the capabilities right so well it's down to the balance between roles and delivery right and that's the and that's the other piece of it is the partners get really upset with us when we're not innovating if they can do everything that we do then they wonder why in the world there partner program so so there is a creative tension right we're always going to be innovated sometimes that leads us down paths that overlap you know the forward leaning partners sometimes it works itself out so so but that is a constant dance and it's a good thing actually because our partners teach us a lot and and good checks and balances but you're also going to be an enabler right I mean yes you can leverage a lot of the work you're doing just pass it on that's as you get to movies converge and integration yes yeah yeah and and you know the channel piece is interesting because the channel is going through a massive transformation like everybody else yeah and you know let's face it most of the channel revenue today is moving tin and then but that's changing your rapidly because that business is kind of going away what happened overnight yeah so the lines are blurring but my understanding Scott and from speaking in the past is that that you're open to the channel white labeling your services they do that talk to many of your channel partners that are happy to do that and you allow that it doesn't have your not dogmatic about it's got to be the HP brand can you talk about that philosophy yeah so I think that's correct in that assertion so generally it's that that's not the way we kind of view the world we have a few what would we call partner branded programs and those are very very specific and targeted generally speaking what we want to do is pour a ton of investment into innovation and we ask our partners where there's there's you know where we have clear innovation and clear leadership to sell our brands we authorize them to do that we pay them to do that we encourage them to do that and we have multipliers on how they can earn with us you know the more for more model but in a few cases we do we do have a partner branded program and and sometimes that has to do with geography sometimes it has to do with a product and the competitors that are that are in the market with that product I see okay so so it really is selective and you're really trying to to have that HP branded service but the the partner can resell that service and make the partner can resell and they can deliver against it as well and again we make it worth their while through our partner programs you guys have a great track record with the channel excuse got a great history there's why I asked but the innovation things what I was getting at night so I gotta ask you since Vegas what's the top seller what product is working the most right now well I mean I mean I mean come joking but I want to kind of know where's the traction what's the most hot yeah what's hot well you know you were there when we introduced proactive care for example three years ago that's become possibly the fastest selling product in HP's history and most of it is done through the channel so here's the case where we're able to offer proactive in sight backed by analytics and reporting that most partners don't have either the time the breath the visibility to do and again that's where they said hey thank you thank you for innovating he look back at enterprise we would like to take that to our customers composable services what's going on there it's news right out of the gate so it's a new announcement right Rio T stuff again we love the IOT messaging though got a rouble wireless out there ya bought with a great leader transition right so I'll take them in order so so first of all composable you know what what all what every ops and I tea shop will know is that it's really hard to provision right it it's labor intensive it's is error prone its disruptive sometimes it's not very secure depending on where you get your images and so from and so with with the with synergy what we've done is we've said look we want to make provisioning happen at runtime we want the gear to self-assemble why can't the gear kind of discover itself and self assemble that kind of makes sense right but but nobody's done this right so we're really excited about that capability and then on top of that it has native exposure for this this infrastructure as code paradigm which now now you begin to excite the developer community about this being a target right versus the morass that they sometimes feel that I T is presenting back to them so it's high velocity IT it's in the paradigm that they want and from the knobs perspective a lot easier to live with I mean the livability of synergy versus conventional gear is so much better so we're trying to take the hassle factor out of being an ops person and also encourage a collaboration that eventually you know DevOps is all about but not everybody is there yet and and it's going to take time so we've just been discussing John and I a week whether synergy is evolutionary or revolutionary from the services perspective you haven't a good angle on that yeah and if it is evolutionary what does it mean from a services perspective what's your take synergy composable infrastructure that you've announced evolutionary or revolutionary and when I think lican I mean I think that could be a fun debate i'm not sure but i think you know for me for me i think it's going to feel quite revolutionary to customers and that's the reaction we're getting of course we pull the analysts all through the development cycle about what do you think and what do you think this is going to mean and they're really excited it's a cinema big weighing in at river there that I think I think they would say is revolutionary and from a certain perspective look at what's the abyss you know from a service perspective on one level it's no different than any other product there are more potentially more seams or fewer seams for my business to kind of deal with on behalf of the customer but it's also going to mean that we have the ability to now to kind of fulfill what I've laid out is our vision which is we need to be about making sure that customers are successful through IT and do that over the long term independent of market headwinds and independent of technology changes and so this is to me it's an enablement of what we're trying to do generally and then the rest of our service just wrap around it as they always do were you was your team asked to help dog food with the split and did you get tired of that well yeah remember all on the payroll it is but but but yes in fact you know we talked about how like in a couple weeks we had to build 4,000 servers well my team got involved with that why wouldn't we right we have the expertise yeah so in the long face and a lot of yeah a lot of my team were involved in the various you know behind the scenes aspects of it and but again that's something to be proud of because now people look and say wow that's almost like a benchmark for what how things should happen right and and so and we've actually made a business out of helping other companies do similar things whether it's divestiture or merger it's quite an accomplishment i think it's worth capturing and documenting as a use case because to do that a death scale at that level of that edge speed is really agile dan again it's for it is purest yeah non-dogmatic form yes I mean agile in terms of development I get that but to move that kind of scale yeah in that you know I think about it like a man on the moon in a decade we will do XYZ and that's and you know we in one year we are going to be two separate companies and we did it awesome well I gotta get your take on the overall vibe actually actually first IOT I want to get that the coyote is really an opportunity moonshots now being yeah I disagree gated opportunities there so so first of all there are cycles right you know mainframe client-server on on and on IOT moving compute to the edge is is the the latest cycle and it's going to last a long time because as much as we'd like to put in the sensors there's a cost right if the sensors are all super smart now they can't proliferate so putting compute on the edge is a nice architecture and moonshots a perfect vehicle for that the thing that for the service business there's a there's sort of an edge where I'm not going to take it further in other words our edge the true edge in other words I will provide support for the IOT aggregation right the aggregation quite the compute point but people say well why don't you you know isn't isn't a you know a RFID tag just you know part of the architecture well yes it is well I don't have people who can go into hazardous environments like I don't have people who are trained to go into medical facilities to grow that last mile right so when it comes yeah when it comes to talk about this right of service night around from us from Hewlett Packard Enterprise it'll go it'll go up to the compute layer or edge and then we'll work with other people and that'll be part of our overall big solution when you talk about big solutions like we might you know might be doing for an airline or for the health industry in general so we have advising people to define that edge yeah and we added one way element to that which is not only the provisioning of the labor of the training is also power and internet and the 30 patients and yes everything everything about that so it's a very it becomes a collaborative play like people say well why wouldn't you want to do smart meters well I don't have meter readers in my workforce for example and it's all going to be automated anyway so if you face to though I mean the reality now is that the addressable market now is the edge of the network your true edge and then I OT everything yes let's try to go outside the bounds of that true edge as you were pointing out you start getting into over your skis yes and you get into all these little fatal flaw trip wires well not only that but you know we can't forget that the companies to build the sensors are quite interested in the value chain of all this to ya so this is where I think we'll meet in the middle will collaborate yeah and and it's actually very exciting I in my past I was involved heavily in telematics and so I know that I know the drill and but I completely agree with this huge huge opportunity well you interesting that's a point about leading in the middle that actually favors HP with the ecosystem play yeah absolutely put you guys right if we will out so yeah interesting we're kind of stitches together in real time we had a great statement on that great great visibility workplace productivity I've been trying to figure out what the heck that that transformation pillar is all about it's like it's splendid right oh yeah yeah the product guy I'm trying to get a product out of it but you got development you got user experience it seems mazi to me can you clarify that for what that means we service isn't so the very first maybe the you know glaringly obvious part of that is mobility right and with our Aruba acquisition we have I think we have a great position there and this notion that you know years ago we talked about work-life balance sometimes it became kind of a joke but the work-life balance doesn't exist really it's like I'm working now in two seconds from now I'm going to be on my life because I'm interacting with my kid or whatever on text back to work and that the only way that actually happens is if you can essentially be connected everywhere yeah and and back to IOT you know what what we're doing is you know you've heard about data center care where we wrap around arms around all the gear in a data center we are doing the same thing is it'll be called campus care or something like that but how do you provide that kind of integrated single point of contact experience for a campus network right so that you can you can create that experience so so that moves us but it's fuzzy because that's just way the world is it's fuzzy it's splendid that's the way wins that's why we work i'm on the sidelines watch my kids lacrosse game and I answering email in between apps right so you know exactly is that bad or good i get actually he's a product it just is so I gotta ask you I know we're getting close on time but you brought up wireless and you mentioned right ampas huge refresh opportunity in campus networking right now and wireless it seems to be the top item for all user experience yes does that on your Lily on your road map right now in terms of delivery because I can imagine yeah the refresh cycles from went you know yeah remotely connected with wired or Wireless now I mean nobody's running wires anymore yeah so but yes the refresh the the the first placement stadiums you know places where where you were lucky if you could have a cell phone signal people want to show up and they want to watch the replays on their device and they you know it becomes an immersive experience all enabled through technology i Scott I know you got another appointment and really appreciate you taking the time great insight on IOT and as usual great insight across sport thanks for sharing the insight here all that big day to come in there on the cube for your in the services love the services lead I really believe that debris are now in a services led sure because the infrastructure is in different than every company so there's no boilerplate anymore it's harder for you but I'd get that get those reference architectures to be more of them congratulations I'm split thank you Scott Weller senior vice president Romero technology services group here Enterprise HP Enterprise hv discovery right back with more from the cube after this short break you