>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a Cube Conversation. >> Analysis from company earnings reports and costumer survey data, continues to show that Microsoft Azure and GCP are closing the gap on AWS's cloud dominance. Now, while reporting definitions of the cloud remain fuzzy, it's very clear that clouds steady march into the stronghold of on-premises computing continues. The global Coronavirus pandemic has only strengthen the cloud's position in the overall market place. Now, as you might recall, we reported last week, the story of the haves and the have nots, and that's playing out in several sectors. And in this breaking analysis we're going to take a closer look at the big three cloud players, and we'll do a brief investigation of AWS specifically in a short drill down. Welcome everyone, to theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Today we're going to try to really accomplish three things. First, we want to quantify how the cloud is impacting the on-prem business. As we enter this decade, let's take a snapshot of some of the vendors that are well positioned, and maybe some of those that are facing greater head winds. The second thing we want to do, is we want to update you on the latest market share data for the big three cloud players. And then finally, I want to dig into the business of AWS in a little bit more depth to see where they're seeing the most strengthen, and where, perhaps, maybe there are some cracks in their substantial armor. Now, let's look at the IT landscape where we are in 2020. The first data point that we want to share, really tells a familiar story, and really drafts off the theme that we've set for the past several weeks, which is the bifurcation in the marketplace. Now, if you take a look at this chart what's really showing is ETR's version of the Gartner Magic Quadrant, but it uses survey data to plot the vendors. So in the y-axis is the metric of it, net score, which is a measurement of spending momentum. And just to review, each quarter ETR surveys more than 1,200 CIOS and IT professionals, and asks them, essentially are they spending more or less on a particular supplier. And what we do is we subtract the less from the more, and the remainder is the net score. So it's sort of like NPS, and I'll go into that a little bit later. But that's the vertical axis. Now the x-axis is called market share. You know, it's really not market share, like IDC measures, rather it's a measure of pervasiveness in the survey and it's calculated by dividing the mentions of a particular company by the total mentions in the overall survey. And you see that's plotted on the horizontal axis. So several points here that I want to note. First is remember, this is April survey data, so for more than 1200 buyers, and you can see we've plotted several companies, including the big three cloud players. You got Microsoft and AWS in the upper right and Google with much lower presence but decent spending momentum. And we've plotted a number of other enterprise players, including several on-prem leaders, like Dell EMC, IBM, Oracle, and Cisco. And we've also included some of the companies that are showing real promise from a momentum standpoint, and penetration. These are business models that we like, and they include Snowflake, the analytic database disruptor, UiPath, who's the RPA specialist, Okta and CrowdStrike who are really killing it in security and Datadog who provides cloud monitoring services. And as you can see, we've superimposed in the upper right a table showing the net scores and market shares for each of the companies. And the story here very clearly quantifies that cloud is winning, and we think it's likely to continue to grow fast and penetrate the enterprise. Now, as we've reported many times, downturns tend to be good for cloud. But the on-prem leaders, you know, as you can see by Cisco's position, for example, they're not going to just roll over. And we'll be covering winning strategies for legacy players in a later segment. But let me just say this, if you're a customer with a lot of on-prem infrastructure, and you're building out data centers, unless you're a big cloud provider, you're probably going to be in the wrong side of history here. Okay. Let's take a closer look at the big three. I want to update you on their IaaS and PaaS numbers as best we can. All recently reported earnings, and this chart shows the data for each of the companies. Now as you can see, each of them has substantial businesses with AWS by far the largest, GCP is growing the fastest. What's notable is that AWS in 2018 was 2.7 x larger than Azure, and today that delta is under two x based on our q1 estimates. And it's just about two X on a trailing 12 month basis. Now, I got to caution you that the AWS numbers are the cleanest AWS reports religiously an easy to understand revenue and operating profit number for its cloud business, every quarter. Microsoft and Google are much fuzzier. You know, for example, you read through Microsoft's 10-K reports and you'll see that their intelligent cloud revenue comprises public and private clouds, hybrid, SQL Server, Windows Server, System Center, GitHub, enterprise support and consulting services and, oh yeah, Azure. So we have to estimate how much of that hairball is actually comparable directly to AWS. Now, Google similarly just started breaking out its cloud revenue in bundles more than just IaaS and PaaS into its cloud numbers. Now, having said that, both Microsoft and Google, they do give little tidbits like Hansel and Gretel of guidance in the form of growth rates or commentary on growth rates in their respective IaaS and PaaS businesses, ie, Azure and GCP. So this is our best estimate, given all that is reported and what we know from survey data. Now, I also want to point out that these clouds are, they're really different in quality and they have different fits for different use cases. For example, Microsoft is building out a cloud really to support it's huge install base of customers, and really make it easy for them to tap into the Microsoft Cloud services, but it may not be the most robust cloud, as has been widely reported in analyzed in the press. You know, Microsoft is struggling to provide adequate capacity for its customers. It's kind of using the COVID-19 pandemic as a bit of a heat shield on this issue. Microsoft put out a blog post essentially saying that it'll, it'll prioritize first responders, health workers, and essential businesses during the COVID 19 pandemic, oh, and Teams customers. So okay, that's one of those caveat emptor situations, you know, if you're not one of these camps, you know, or frankly, maybe if you are. But it's unquestionable that Microsoft has strong momentum across its vast portfolio, including cloud. And really that's what I want to get into next. So let's take a look at some data, we've been reporting for quite some time based on the ETR surveys, that the big cloud players, you know, have very, very strong momentum as measured by net scores. So what this chart shows is the most recent survey results, again, more than 1,200, it buyers 1,269 to be exact. And you can see broadly that all the big three are well on green for net scores as we show in the upper right hand box, and well over 50% net scores for all three, and Microsoft Azure is in the 70% range. So a very, very strong demand across the board. Now remember, ETR is asking buyers to comment on the areas with which they are familiar. So a buyer might be interpreting cloud to include all those things in Microsoft and Google that may not be directly comparable to the AWS responses, but it doesn't matter. The point is, they all have momentum, and you can see, you know, even though there's a slight dip in the most recent survey, you know, which ran during the peak of the shutdown in the US. So even there's a small dip relative to other parts of the survey, cloud is very, very strong. Now, let's dig into the data a bit more, and take a look at the Fortune 500 drill down. So of course, this is an indicator of larger companies. And you can see AWS overtakes Azure in this segment by a small margin, you know, noting the same caveats that I mentioned earlier. But the strength of the net scores for all three is meaningful as they all increased within these larger buying basis. Now let's take a look at this next chart, if we extend that cut, to include the Fortune 1000, you can see here that all three companies again, continue to show strength. But you know, there's a convergence, which really says to me that this multi cloud picture that's emerged, and that CIOs are really now starting to see that whether it's through M and A, or maybe it was shadow IT or whatever, they're faced with a variety of choices that are increasingly viable. And despite my previously and sometimes snarky comments that multi cloud has been more of a symptom of multi vendor versus a clear CIO strategy, that maybe is perhaps beginning to change, especially as they're asked to clean up what I've often called as the crime scene. Now, I want to close by taking a little bit of a closer look at the AWS business specifically. And I want to come back to this notion of net score and explain it a little bit. So what we show here on this wheel chart is really a breakdown of responses across more than 600 AWS customers in the April survey, remember again, this survey ran at the height of the lockdown in the US. It's a global survey well over 100 responses outside of the United States. But really, what's relevant here is the strength of the AWS business overall. This chart shows how net score is essentially derived, ETR asked customers, are you adopting new? Are you increasing spend meaning, increasing by 6% or more? Are you keeping spending flat? Or are you decreasing spending by more than 6%? Or are you chucking the platform i.e. replacement? So look at this, we're talking about nearly 70% of customers spending more in 2020 on AWS than they spent last year, and only 4% are spending less. That's pretty impressive for a player with a $38 billion business. Now the next data point I want to share really shows where the action is across the AWS portfolio, so let's take a look at this. The chart here shows the responses from an end of more than 700 and the net score, or spending momentum, across the AWS portfolio with a comparison across three survey dates, last April, January 2020, and April 2020. And as you can see the very elevated spending momentum across most of the AWS key business lines, including cloud functions, data warehouse, which is EDW, etc, AI and machine learning, workspaces with the work from home pivot. And, you know, there are some areas that are maybe less robust, but nothing in the red zone, red zone, meaning, you know, net scores would be like below, let's say 25% net score. And as you can see, there's really nothing close to that in the AWS portfolio. So you're seeing a very strong momentum for AWS, you know, specifically, and of course, the cloud in general. Now, as I said, the pandemic has been been good for cloud, downturns generally are a tailwind. So if you're building data centers, it's probably not a good use of capital, you know, so server huggers, beware. There's an attractiveness more so than ever with this COVID-19 pandemic of that dial up, dial down service. Watch for software companies starting to use that model, whereas today, they often try to lock you into a, you know, one year or a two year or three year license. Increasingly, we're seeing companies investigate and actually go to market with a true cloud model. Okay, thanks for watching this episode of theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Remember, these breaking analysis segments are all available as podcasts. You check out siliconangle.com, I publish there weekly, they have all the news, I also published on Wikibon. So don't forget to check out etr.plus, as well get in touch with me @dvellante. Or you can email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. Stay safe everybody, and we'll see you next time. (gentle music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Red Hat. Summit 2020 Brought to you by Red Hat. >>Hi, I'm stupid, man. And this is the Cube's coverage of Red Hat Summit. Of course, it's happening digitally. We're interviewing Red Hat executives, customers and partners from around the globe who can are gonna be part of this event. And happy to welcome back to the program. One of our Cube alumni, Joe Fitzgerald, who is the vice president and general manager of the management business unit at Red Hat. Last time I caught up with Joe is that answerable fest last year. And, uh, Joseph, fourth year in a row, You've been on the Cube here at Red Hat Summit. Thanks so much for joining us again. >>Thanks for having me back. Still, I'm happy to be here, >>All right, So, Joe, I think it actually makes sense for us to kind of pick up the conversation where we left off and answer both best last year, so answerable fast. It's all about automation. You're really helping with digital transformation. What companies are going through in today's day and age automation and being able to be more agile. Of course, everybody, for the most part, is working from home, being able to enable things remote. The adoption of cloud is even more consideration. So what part there? And since we last talked, you know, obviously things have changed for everyone some, but give us the latest from your organization. >>Thanks to you know, when we met and so fast in Atlanta last fall, we were talking about strategic use of our nation. Um, in today's current crisis, if you will. There's a lot of folks who are leaning on automation in a much more immediate and tactical way. We're seeing a lot of automation being used by folks to the boy, either the infrastructure they need to deal with capacity and surge demand that they have. Right now, we're seeing people use it for things like working from home because they can't get access to gear we're seeing for bursting to public clouds because they can add more physical equipment, perhaps in the data center. So last year we were excited to talk to you about strategic automation. That's still really important. But right now a lot of folks have more pressing matters in terms of automating to get through the current crisis coming to you from northern New Jersey, which is certainly a hot spot on, but certainly a lot appreciation for the folks on the front lines. They're taking care of us and protecting us and things like that. We want to do everything we can as a company, as red hat, to enable folks to do whatever they need to do to be able to get through this crisis. >>Yeah, absolutely. Joe Ah, very important topics there. In the keynote for Red Hat Summit, there's discussion of your group, and of course, management has always been a critical piece of how we look at overall i t. When I first became an analyst, the joke was, Well, you know, security and management. We can always kind of okay, those pillars is two things we need to do is an industry to make things better. Ah, specifically, we've been talking for years about the growth of container ization and kubernetes. Of course, Red hat, strong leadership position with open shift. My understanding that if I heard right from the keynote, it's the advanced cluster. Management is the new piece. Can you give us a little bit about, you know, the team, the technology, how this fits into the overall red hat portfolio. >>Sure, so we're super excited around advanced cluster management. It turns out that you know, we have a lot of customers that are running open shift to other container based applications, and as they evolve, they inevitably end up with multiple clusters based on separation of duties or lines of business, perhaps for distributed availability zones and things like that with their clusters, so they inevitably back into a multi cluster scenario. What we've done is working with IBM would develop some very rich technology around advanced management for multi cluster environments built from scratch for container environments and kubernetes. We worked with IBM. We move that technology over to Red Hat. But when the process of doing two things one is we're announcing tech preview here at Summit of that technology and where the process we're open sourcing that technology because we're red hat and everything we do is open source. We're going to take some of the most advanced container management cluster management technology in the world that we've gotten from IBM, and we're going to open source that we're excited here is that we're gonna provide this red hat, offering advanced cluster management to help people who are struggling with managing clusters. >>Yeah, Joe, absolutely a super important point point. Anybody that's watched this space for the last few years, simplicity has not been the word that people have used for it. And over the last year there's been a lot of announcements from some of the major players in the industry about how do I manage those multiple cluster environment? So, Joe, if I think back two years ago Ah, it was, you know, here's the best way to run kubernetes. And when you talk to a lot of customers, it was well, they were starting with often spinning their own because that was what was available. And the number one choice that I usually heard from customers was, Oh, if I'm a Red Hat customer, started using open shift and start using open ships everywhere, fast forward to where we are today. Of course, you have lots of customers running open shift, but also in the public clouds. If I'm using Amazon, Google, Microsoft, other platform environments, often there's a native kubernetes, and I need to manage across those environments. So do I understand right? ACM Is that going toe? Help me not only with my open shift but as it moves forward. Also, manage some of those other kubernetes environment. And how does Red Hat approach this kind of the same or differently? From what I hear from from Microsoft with Arc with VM Ware with Andrew >>So ACM vessels Management from Red Hat supports any standard kubernetes environment. One of the advantages we have working in an open shift environments Open shift has a lot of functionality sides Kuban aids. In other words, it's already a layer of sophistication built on top of kubernetes, so open shift itself provides a lot of management automation. Now you had advanced cluster management on top of that, which will be able to import other communities clusters from other environments. But the ability for its take advantage of the sophistication that's already in open shift and then leverage things like Hansel Automation and then some of the management. SAS Services cloud at red dot com We're connected customer experience the ability to proactively look at open shift clusters and be ableto some cases tell people about problems they're having before they even realize they have the problem. That combination of management automation on top of the already rich open shift environment really puts us. A couple of you know, runs up in terms of capabilities. I'll be on a standard kubernetes vanilla. Our >>yeah, so one of the reasons I was looking forward to this conversation is one of the things that we've been looking at for the last few years is how is multi cloud the same or different from what we have done back, You know, 10 15 years ago with multi vendor. And I think anybody that's been around long enough and you talk about management in a multi vendor environment and you think about the leading tools from a software standpoint. We're out there and it gives us a little bit of flashbacks, and it's not. Not in a good way. So what have we learned as an industry? And, you know, you talked about it, you know, integration with answerable all the automation, you know, how do we make sure that we aren't repeating the sins of the past with these new generation of management tools? >>Well, what we've seen is that enterprises are inherently going to be hybrid and multi cloud red has been talking about open hybrid cloud for almost eight years. Right? So our CTO Paul Cormier, you know, sort of anticipated this, which was pretty insightful eight years ago because everybody thought and people gonna move exclusively cloud it would have any data centers and maybe hardware anywhere. That's why you've got data centers edge multiple public clouds with services that are all over those different footprints. We believe that, you know, unlike the past when you had heterogeneous systems management, right where you have different platforms that we're trying to manage is the lowest common denominator is a common platform. Now what Red hat is offering is open shift, which will run on all the public clouds, as well as on your physical and virtual hardware in the data centers at the edge. So it basically provides the consistency, which means that the management can then talk to a consistent environment, provided much higher level hybrid cloud management and trying to either have silos of different management tools by cloud by vendor by environment, um, and then try to Federated at the lowest common denominator. You'll see kubernetes management tools, for example, that have to use the lowest, you know, sort of common denominator, which is the straight kubernetes AP eyes. We could take advantage of those, but also the additional functionality That open shift brings in, for example, with the other kids abilities. It allows us to have a higher level of management but provide that consistency by having the same hybrid cloud platform this case. Coburn's shift run across those different environments. >>Yeah, so what? One of the things that also consumer concerns me a little bit as the industry when they talk about kubernetes. It's very much a discussion of the infrastructure piece, but we know this move to cloud native is very much about the application and the application development. So help me understand a little bit how that overall story for kind of the app Dev see I CD all those pieces fit into your story. I was one of the major points of discussion. You know, the best. >>Yeah, so So it is really all about the application. People really don't want to think about the infrastructure. They don't think about the application. That's really what's driving their business and their differentiation in the case of open shift, but open shift provides application. Lifecycle management for kubernetes environments are advanced. Cluster management sort of takes that a step further and allows you to extend that life cycle so that you can deploy applications based on policy to different environments based on your needs. Keeps compliance. All those things enforce regardless of how many different places the traction application. So it's not just a Z Z as taking an application to going into one location. People want to be able to continuously update their applications and deploy it to all of the places that it needs to be there based on availability, a proximity security environments and things like that represents a hard challenge. And so that's why some of the tools, like Advanced cluster Management, are exactly designed to help those kind of new applications. Yeah, >>all right, Joe, you talked about that. Some of the technology for for ACM came from the IBM side. Give us the update. When you look at the IBM Cloud portfolio, how is your group really interacting and supporting and working with the overall IBM solutions? >>So IBM has a very robust portfolio and they have you know a number of the cloud packs in their portfolio that address things like applications and data management, things like that. So IBM, in this case, I developed some advanced cluster management technology, but it was not open source. It wasn't available to other folks. One of the challenges with that is that we believe, as red Hat that the innovations happening in open source. If you develop something in a closed, proprietary way, maybe the best thing in the world today, a year, two years, three years from now there are other projects and there are other technologies have being collaborated on open that are going to make. But we leave you behind, right? So we think open is the future. So in this case, and working with IBM, we took some very advanced technology. We moved it over to Red Hat, and now we're in the process of open sourcing it, as well as providing an enterprise consumable version. More technology in Red Hat Advanced Cluster Management for kubernetes, IBM again has to support a much broader, diverse environment, right in terms of everything from mainframes to edge and containers and V M's and physical machines applications that span decades, So they have a much bigger sort of, you know, target environment that they have to work in. Red Hat's focused on the future. We're really sort of skating to where the puck is, if you will use a you know, hockey analogy where basically, we're trying to anticipate what enterprises are going to need and address that with not only the platforms with management automation, you're going to need to be successful with the cloud. >>Yeah, Joe, I want I want you to bring it into your customers and you talk about all these changes that are happening in the landscape and how they manage it. Any insight you can give as to, you know, organizational structures. You know, I remember last year at Summit I talked to a number of companies going through digital transformation. And, you know, we know that there is as much if not more organizational change that needs happen along with the technology pieces. So from your world, you know who's kind of leading the charge, what skill sets do people need to either, you know, bring to it or learn new on And you know, our companies, you know, taking advantage of >>Well, as they say, developers are sort of the new kingmakers, right? In some ways. And so you know the tools that you've always said people process and technology, right? And I know as software companies get very, very excited about technology, but it turns out that the people, the process here way people building their applications, Way Dev ops and see I CD. It's a very, very sort of different environment for management automation tools, you know and sort of. The relationship between teams has changed and will change more, by the way. And so one of things we're trying to do. You see this with answerable, but you're also seeing this with Advanced Cluster Management is ability to delegate and give different kinds of operational and management capabilities to the teams, whether it's like business developers, QE teams. So it's fundamentally changing the way that the processes were working. That requires that the tools map to those new team structures. There's no new processes on, and that's what I think's going on it fundamentally different, and one of things I think you're going to see is management tools that were built in the past for these were the old style organizing are not going to fare well in the new World, where these processes and the team structures are changing. >>All right, So, Joe, before I want to get some feedback from you on how your technologies and teams they're helping with the code 19 piece. But let's just wrap up the ACM discussion before we do that. So you said it's a tech preview. S 01 of things that really nice is when you move things to open source, the community gets pretty good visibility as to when things were getting releases. New features down the pike. So what should we be looking for as an industry for ACM? When that rolls out, how two people start getting their hands on it and you know, what does that look like? >>So there's really two paths there. One is from a tech preview point of view. You know, customers can get access to the technology right and see it in their environment and give us feedback. The fact that it's been developed for the past two years probably constitutes hundreds of years of developer, um, you know, time in it. It's not Alfa technology. It's pretty robust. So even though we're calling a tech preview, we anticipate that it's going to be production ready in short fashion. It will take us a little bit of time to open. Source. The technology's red hat has a history of open sourcing technologies that we acquire. Each one varies in terms of what's in the code licenses, how it's structured, how it should be open source. We just don't back the truck up and take a bunch of code and put in a repository is actually a thoughtful process about the way that's projects or set up a communities they should be in. We're going through that process now, but customers will be able to take advantage of it in short fashion, and I think they're gonna find a very high level of maturity, given how long and how much. I mean it's work of this, >>you know, a really important piece is there. The other one closed the discussion with how we started off. Obviously, you know, workers and companies are having to make changes and be more flexible than ever in response to the Kobe 19 endemic. What are some of the pieces of technologies and services Ah, that that you want to highlight as toe that are helping companies really adjust to what is happening in today's world. >>Well, Red Hat is always been a very conscientious company. And in my particular area, one of things we're doing is with sensible. We're trying to enable folks to use automation providing free workshop, free workshops and access to code playbooks and things for different environments. If you think about the different kinds of industries right now, some are struggling with no smaller workforces work at home. Other ones are under tremendous pressure to deliver services to help keep us safe and protect us. So we're trying to provide as much a so we can in terms of automation, enabling people to use free, open source innovation on automation to enable work from home to do everything from creative TVNZ toe, you know, set their statuses and communicate between teams in this new environment, but to burst into a lot of clouds in some cases because somewhere trying to scale because their business is now change but is under tremendous pressure. You see that delivery services and things like that. So we're trying to to help as much as we can with automation is something that could be immediately helpful and has been some of these other projects. You know, somebody's doing a transformation, and they're designing new applications as much longer. Burn to it. Whereas automation is needed today by companies under duress, you can help them accelerate, um, and connect the their their new work at home environments. Sweetie Automation. Helping a lot. The other thing I want to mention is that we have free capabilities like red hat insights that can actually access systems for security. The last thing you need is a security breach or some other problem. Why you're dealing with fighting fires. There are bad actors out there. We've seen a few already eso insides ability to look at systems and tell people what their current posture is. So they immediately, quickly, whether with our tools or some other tool they have. We're trying to do as much as we can to help our customers for this really tough time. >>Well, Joe, thank you so much for the updates. Ah, congratulations to the team on the progress and absolutely very important topics to help customers that need to react even faster than ever in today's time. Extra funding. I'm stew. Minimum lots more coverage from Red Hat Summit on the Cube. Check out the cube dot net. And thank you for watching. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> [Disembodied Voice] From New York, it's the cube. Covering escape 19. >> Welcome back to the Cube's coverage here in New York City for the inaugural multi-cloud conference called Escape 2019. This is a conference dedicated, first conference dedicated to conversations and content and people around the trend of multi-cloud, which I've been critical of, I've called BS in the past. But it is multi-vendor it's developing and the architecture for true multi-cloud is on the horizon. Where well, we will be relevant. Our next guest is Daniel Wall, senior Distinguished Engineer at Red Hat, working on a lot of the technology around what Kubernetes and containers is create a lot of buzz around and that is the abstraction layer around working across clouds. Daniel, welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you for having me. >> I'm sure I butchered what you do, but I know you make a lot of tools. You make containers work. Talk about your role at Red Hat real quick. >> So my role at Red Hat is I am the technical lead of container technology, everything basically underneath Kubernetes main projects over the last few years is to look at what Docker did and then split them into individual tasks. I believe that Docker should be broken into four different main tasks move and container images around playing with containers, building container images, and running containers in production. And then we can run different security realms around each one of them. So we have tools to do that a Scopio, Podman build, and CRI-O is the one we use for Kubernetes. >> And how's it going? Good? >> It's going great. Yeah, we're getting great up. A lot of community support. A lot of people are really excited about some of the security features for so you can run full containers where you traditionally would do a darker you can run a totally non routes and much more secure. >> Well, I'm really interested in your talk you're giving here because the folks that follow The Cube know some of my tirades I've been on the past. I've been saying for a long time that there's been a very non-selection of clouds outside the big three, >> Right. >> And you had a power law that has, know who the big guys and a long tail of people creating their own little niche services. But income, the essentials and the global size and channel part is people using cloud. We have a video cloud, we're building more and more clouds for our media business. This, I was talking about the rise of these new clouds right?. >> Right. >> You're actually put some structure around this around, You're talking about Walmart clouds and niche clouds. Could you explain so this is really important. I want you to take some time to explain that. >> Okay, so my talk today I call it the Walmart clouds, although the analogy is when Walmart first started showing up in the United States and different areas, all of the department stores basically went out of business because Walmart was able to out-commoditize everything in the universe. And so, all these major vendors, district department stores went out of business. The one thing that didn't go out of business was sort of like specialty stores. So, I always kid around and say my wife has me every weekend sitting out front of these specialty stores that she loves to stop shop at. So if I look at the way the clouds have happened is basically most people say there's three major clouds, although I think they ignore one. So you look at Amazon, you have Google and you have Microsoft Azure, although I think Alibaba is going to become important in the future. And I call those the Walmart clouds, because basically, their whole goal is to commoditize and get rid of all the other, >> And scale up and provide more and more departments more services, >> But basically it they will always be rushing to get to the cheapest price. But there were a bunch of other cloud vendors out of the specialty cloud vendors like you talking about the Cube one, you this might be the best one to do in video. So I might want to put part of my workload in the Microsoft cloud or the Amazon cloud to get the cheapest price but I want to run certain certain workloads inside the U.S. We look at another example that is Nvidia right? and there's the Nvidia cloud and they might put the best GPUs in there. And you might want to do your machine learning your AI technologies might want to go in there because they might work better. IBM, who obviously bought Red Hat, but but IBM, you look at what they're doing in their cloud, they can have power series, they can have, mainframe workload z series. They might even have, some of their future, super duper computers type things in it. And then you have Oracle and Oracle would have database, they're probably going to do databases, they've massive database technologies inside of their cloud. So when you really >> Well, they think they're one of the big clouds. But they're not. >> They do. >> But their specialty Database Cloud. >> Basically, I believe that they are. I believe IBM, I think all of them are niche, especially clouds. But the bottom line is you need an API to move between these clouds so you can put workloads in different instances. And I believe that the Walmart clouds the the AWS and Microsoft and Google, their whole goal is to get you into their cloud. They might talk a little bit about on prem cloud and supporting your data centers. But their real goal is to get you off your data centers into their cloud, so they can start making money. They won't have no interest in supporting these, sort of the specialty cloud vendors. But if you look at open shift, which Kubernetes, from Red Hat, our goal is to basically make moving your cloud instances around and keep commodity and stability and move to clouds around. >> Let's take it through a working example. So there's couples and use cases that I see happening, I want to get your reaction. One is our cloud. We're (mutters intelligibly) which we do have. It's coming out. It's on Amazon. So we were small, self funded, company growing having fun. We're building on Amazon. We don't do any work in Azure our solutions on Amazon. Another use case might be a vendor that says hey I have proprietary software, I'm going to stand up my own cloud infrastructure and do all that and build it from the ground up. Is there a difference between the two? Because one is co-locating essentially on Amazon. leveraging the cheap commodity, but building differentiated niche on top of it, versus the standing up a full cloud? >> Well, what I would argue, first of all is is I would want you are your cloud, the one that you're saying is in say, Amazon, it what is the chance of you guys basically getting an offer from Azure to a nickel less per hour. >> Pretty high!(laughs amusingly) >> To be able to move your cloud over, >> It might be high. >> And the problem I would see is if your cloud inside of Amazon cloud starts to take advantage of Amazon's features, then all of a sudden it gets harder and harder for you. the cost of moving off is going to get harder and harder. If you use open source solutions, pure open source and not tied to individual cloud vendors. Then it would become much easier for you to move around. So you could take advantage of, commodity, right? And that you mean, another analogy I use with the big cloud vendors is Hansel and Gretel right. They all want you to come on in and come on in have some of our candy, have some our candy. And next thing you know, you're inside the cage. And, you know, but if you stick to open source, right, this is in a lot of ways the major cloud vendors is a major threat to open source, and that they're trying to lock everybody in right there. We lost it. >> Okay so what's the path? So I told it, by the way, I'm getting what your saying. So I say great I'll take advantage of the cheap I as the infrastructure service layer. But then what an open source toy usually open shift, I still got to build my app, I got to still host it. >> Right. So you build you build your app on top of it. So let me define what open shift is. And so open shift is basically Red Hat's enterprise version of Kubernetes. So if you look at Kubernetes, Kubernetes in some ways is just a higher level distribution of software. So when when Red Hats got into Linux business, there were lots and lots of Linux distributions. And what Red Hat did is they picked a whole kernel and a whole bunch of packages and joined them together and created a distribution that everybody could agree on and build on. So with open shift we're doing is we're taking Kubernetes, but there's a whole bunch of CNCF projects, and we're joining them all together and then testing them and making enterprise so that ready. But really Kubernetes is the key factor here in that if you build everything Kubernetes you CNCF open source projects, for your, save your storage, put it on staff, so Gloucester, one of the network based file systems in the open source world, instead of diving directly into Amazon, now you have the flexibility to be able to get out of the- >> So here's an Architectural question. So I got to ask you as multi-cloud conversation starts to heat up, and by the way, I think people have multiple clouds. It's just not multi-clouding. Right, right, right. Yeah, but it's coming. So architecturally what do someone have to think about architecturally for multi cloud? What's in the mind of the technical architect out there? >> What's on them? What are they should be thinking about from an architecture because you don't want to forclose the future. But I also want to get the best what I can get today from the clouds. >> I mean, I keep keep on hammering on it, but stick to the open source projects to do this as the CNCF projects just to allow you flexibility. A lot of it, the real problem with a lot of this technology right now is it's developing so fast. I mean, I think we have a Kubernetes version every two weeks, it seems at least in my team and see it feels like it. >> So you think Red Hat's of good vendor for the supplier for that person. >> Obviously >> Yeah you know some stuff is hard to deal with so it (mutters) look I'm so busy, these guys, I'm trying to get the transformation going. I don't have time to keep track of what's going on in CNCF. >> Yeah, well, we're a co worker of mine talks about your Red Hat and open shift is a plumbing tool or an electric we're building the foundation of your house and we put the electrical systems and the plumbing empties into your house, but we still need applications to run so we need you you need a toast or you need a toilet, you need a sink. And the applications and one of the one of the differences between Red hat and sort of the cloud vendors is we try not to get into the product, the lab and product business. So we want to support open source projects and other products running in our environment. If you compare that to running inside a cloud, you know if you become incredibly successful inside of Amazon, your video cloud business wants to prevent Amazon to say, oh, we'll just do video will steal everything they're doing and all a sudden we'll do the video inside of Amazon and then put your your cloud out of business. And, your only option then is now you're competing Amazon in Amazon against Amazon. How do you get out of Amazon >> That's called 3D chess.I think. Or maybe 4D chess. >> So if you you know My point being if you have an opportunity to get out and compete against Amazon say on Microsoft compete on your local compete on one of the niche clouds So any vendor that basically ties totally to Amazon, >> This is this is absolutely why I'm here because I believe multi-vendor, that was the buzzword in the 80s and 90s. Is everyone wants to they want to homogeneous they want a heterogeneous network. So multi-vendor will be around multi-cloud has to survive, it will survive. But right now we are in the foundational stages. The second interview, he has talked about plumbing and streets, and that's what we're at. So I guess the final question for you is, as we're setting the foundational infrastructure for multi-cloud, what's the big takeaway that you see that you could share? You mentioned get involved in open source what specifically architecturally should should folks think about in terms of foundational. >> I think, look at what the CNCF that cloud cloud native foundation is doing for open source projects, depends on what level you want to come in. And the bottom line is, built on top of Kubernetes use open standards to do it. Don't fall for the Hansel and Gretel effect of eating the candy because you will find yourself in a cage. >> Well, multi cloud is arrived and it's being thought through by industry leaders from entrepreneurs. We just had the former CEO of Sierra on, now running AVA trace, industry veteran, lot of tech chops in here, laying down the lines, if you will. A lot of good stuff Kubernetes is a key part of the containers. >> Okay, huge part of it. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me. >> And thanks for sharing the insights here on The Cube. We're in New York City for the inaugural multi-cloud conference Escape 19. I'm John Furrier back with more after this short break (pulsating music) (pulsating music)

>>live from Atlanta, Georgia. It's the Q covering answerable best 2019. Brought to you by Red hat. >>Welcome back, everyone to the Cube. Live coverage in Atlanta, Georgia for answerable fest. This is Red Hats Event where all the practices come together. The community to talk about automation anywhere. John Kerry with my coast to Minutemen, our next two guests arrive. And Bergeron, principal community architect for answerable now Red Hat and Greg Dankers Berg, senior director, Community Ansel's. Well, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >>Thank you. >>Okay, So we were talking before camera that you guys had. This is a two day event. We're covering the Cube. You guys have an awful fast, but you got your community day yesterday. The day before the people came in early. The core community heard great things about it. Love to get an update. Could you share just what happened yesterday? And then we'll get in some of the community. Sure. >>We s o uh, for all of our answer professed for a while now we've started them with ah, community contributor conference. And the goal of that conference is to get together. Ah, lot of the people we work with online right people we see is IRC nicks or get hub handles rights to get them together in the same room. Ah, have them interact with, uh, with core members of our team. Uh, and that's where we really do, uh, make a lot of decisions about how we're gonna be going forward, get really direct feedback from some of our key contributors about the decisions were making The things were thinking about, uh, with the goal of, you know, involving our community deeply in a lot of decisions we make, that's >>a working session, meets social, get together. That's >>right, Several working sessions and then, you know, drinks afterward for those who want the drinks and just hang out time that >>way. Drinks and their last night was really good. I got the end of it. I missed the session, but >>they have the peaches, peaches, it on the >>table. That was good. But this is the dynamic community. This is one things we notice here. Not a seat open in the house on the keynote Skinny Ramon Lee, active participant base from this organic as well Be now going mainstream. How >>you >>guys handling it, how you guys ride in this way? Because certainly you certainly do. The communities which is great for feedback get from the community. But as you have the commercial eyes open sores and answerable, it's a tough task. >>Well, I'd like to think part of it is, I guess maybe it's not our first rodeo. Is that what we'd say? I mean, yeah, uh, for Ansel. I worked at ELASTICSEARCH, uh, doing community stuff. Before that, I worked at Red Hat. It was a fedora. Project leader, number five. And you were Fedora project Leader. What number was that? Number one depends >>on how you count, but >>you're the You're the one that got us to be able to call it having a federal project leader. So I sort of was number one. So we've been dealing with this stuff for a really long time. It's different in Anselm that, you know, unlike a lot of, you know, holds old school things like fedora. You know, a lot of this stuff is newer and part of the reason it's really important for us to get You know, some of these folks here to talk to us in person is that you know especially. And you saw my keynote this morning where they talked about we talked about modularity. Lot of these folks are really just focused on. They're one little bit and they don't always have is much time. People are working in lots of open source projects now, right, and it's hard to pay deep attention to every single little thing all the time. So this gives them a day of in case you missed it. Here's the deep, dark dive into everything that you know we're planning or thinking about, and they really are. You know, people who are managing those smaller parts all around answerable, really are some of our best feedback loops, right? Because they're people who probably wrote that model because they're using it every single day and their hard core Ansel users. But they also understand how to participate in community so we can get those people actually talking with the rest of us who a lot of us used to be so sad. Men's. I used to be a sis admin, lots of us. You know. A lot of our employees actually just got into wanting to work on Ansel because they loved using it so much of their jobs. And when you're not, actually, since admitting every day, you you lose a little bit of >>the front lines with the truth of what's around. Truth is right there >>and putting all these people together in room make sure that they all also, you know, when you have to look at someone in the eye and tell them news that they might not like you have a different level of empathy and you approach it a little bit differently than you may on the Internet. So, >>Robin So I lived in your keynote this morning. You talked about answerable. First commit was only back in 2012. So that simplicity of that modularity and the learnings from where open source had been in the past Yes, they're a little bit, you know, what could answerable do, being a relatively young project that it might not have been able to dio if it had a couple of decades of history? >>Maybe Greg should tell the story about the funk project >>way. There was a There was a project, a tread hat that we started in 2007 in a coffee shop in Chapel Hill, North Carolina is Ah, myself and Michael the Han and Seth the doll on entry likens Who still works with this with us? A danceable Ah, and we we put together Ah, an idea with all the same underpinnings, right? Ah, highly modular automation tool We debated at the time whether it should be based on SSL or SS H for funk. We chose SSL Ah, and you know, after watching that grow to a certain point and then stagnates and it being inside of red Hat where, you know, there were a lot of other business pressures, things like that. We learned a lot from that experience and we were able to take that experience. And then in 2012 there there's the open source community was a little different. Open source was more acceptable. Get Hubbell was becoming a common plat platform for open source project hosting. And so a lot of things came together in a short pier Time All that experience, although, >>and also market conditions, agenda market conditions in 2007 Cloud was sort of a weird thing that not really everyone was doing 2012 rolls around. Everyone has these cloud images and they need to figure out how to get something in it. Um, and it turns out that Hansel's a really great way to actually do that. And, you know, even if we had picked SS H back in the beginning, I don't know, you know, not have had time projects grow to a certain point. And I could point a lots of projects that were just It's a shame they were so ahead of their time. And because of that, you know, >>timing is everything with the key. I think now what I've always admired about the simplicity is automation requires that the abstract, the way, the complexities and so I think you bring a cloud that brings up more complexity, more use cases for some of the underlying paintings of the plumbing. And this is always gonna This is a moving train that's never going to stop. What was the feedback from the community this year around? As you guys get into some of these analytical capabilities, so the new features have a platform flair to it. It's a platform you guys announced answerable automation platform that implies that enables some value. >>You know, I >>think in >>a way. We've always been a platform, right, because platform is a set of small rules and then modules that attached to it. It's about how that grows, right? And, uh, traditionally, we've had a batteries included model where every module and plug in was built to go into answerable Boy, that got really big bright and >>we like to hear it. I don't even know how many I keep say, I'll >>say 2000. Then it'll be 3000 say 3000 >>something else, a lot of content. And it's, you know, in the beginning, it was I can't imagine this ever being more than 202 150 batteries included, and at some point, you know, it's like, Whoa, yeah, taking care of this and making sure it all works together all the time gets >>You guys have done a great You guys have done a great job with community, and one of the things that you met with Cloud is as more use cases come, scale becomes a big question, and there's real business benefits now, so open source has become part of the business. People talk about business, models will open source. You guys know that you've been part of that 28 years of history with Lennox. But now you're seeing Dev Ops, which is you'll go back to 78 2009 10 time frame The only the purest we're talking Dev ops. At that time, Infrastructures Co was being kicked around. We certainly been covering the cubes is 2010 on that? But now, in mainstream enterprise, it seems like the commercialization and operational izing of Dev ops is here. You guys have a proof point in your own community. People talk about culture, about relationships. We have one guest on time, but they're now friends with the other guy group dowels. So you stay. The collaboration is now becoming a big part of it because of the playbook because of the of these these instances. So talk about that dynamic of operational izing the Dev Ops movement for Enterprise. >>All right, so I remember Ah, an example at one of the first answer professed I ever went thio There were there were a few before I came on board. Ah, but it was I >>think it was >>the 1st 1 I came to when I was about to make the jump from my previous company, and I was just There is a visitor and a friend of the team, and there was an adman who talked to me and said, For the first time, I have this thing, this playbook, that I can write and that I can hand to my manager and say this is what we're going to D'oh! Right? And so there was this artifact that allowed for a bridging between different parts of the organization. That was the simplicity of that playbook that was human readable, that he could show to his boss or to someone else in the organ that they could agree on. And suddenly there was this sort of a document that was a mechanism for collaboration that everyone could understand buy into that hadn't really existed before. Answerable existed after me. That was one of the many, you know, flip of the light moments where I was like, Oh, wow, maybe we have something >>really big. There were plenty of other infrastructures, code things that you could hand to someone. But, you know, for a lot of people, it's like I don't speak that language right? That's why we like to say like Ansel sort of this universal automation language, right? Like everybody can read it. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. Uh, it's, you know, great for your exact example, right? I'm showing this to my manager and saying This is the order of operations and you don't have to be a genius to read it because it's really, really readable >>connecting system which connects people >>right. It's fascinating to May is there was this whole wave of enterprise collaboration tools that the enterprise would try to push down and force people to collaborate. But here is a technology tool that from the ground up, is getting people to do that collaboration. And they want to do it. And it's helping bury some >>of those walls. And it's interesting you mention that I'm sure that something like slack is a thing that falls into that category. And they've built around making sure that the 20 billion people inside a company all sign up until somebody in the I T departments like, What do you mean? These random people are just everyone's using it. No one saving it isn't secure, and they all freak out, and, um, well, I mean, this is sort of, you know, everybody tells her friend about Ansel and they go, Oh, right, Tool. That's gonna save the world Number 22 0 wait, actually, yeah. No, this is This actually is pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get started. >>Well, you know, sometimes the better mouse trap will always drive people to that solution. You guys have proven that organic. What's interesting to me is not only does it keep win on capabilities, it actually grew organically. And this connective tissue between different groups, >>right? Got it >>breaks down that hole silo mentality. And that's really where I tease been stuck? Yes. And as software becomes more prominent and data becomes more prominent, it's gonna just shift more power in the hands of developer and to the, uh, just add mons who are now being redeployed into being systems, architects or whatever they are. This transitional human rolls with automation, >>transformation architect >>Oh my God, that's a real title. I don't >>have it, but >>double my pay. I'll take it. >>So collections is one of the key things talked about when we talk about the Antelope Automation platform. Been hearing a lot discussion about how the partner ecosystems really stepping up even more than before. You know, 4600 plus contributors out there in community, But the partners stepping up Where do you see this going? Where? Well, collections really catalyze the next growth for your >>It's got to be the future for us that, you know, there there were a >>few >>key problems that we recognize that the collections was ultimately the the dissolution that we chose. Uh, you know, one key problem is that with the batteries included model that put a lot of pressure on vendors to conform to whatever our processes were, they had to get their batteries in tow. Are thing to be a part of the ecosystem. And there was a huge demand to be a part of our ecosystem. The partners would just sort of, you know, swallow hard and do what they needed to d'oh. But it really wasn't optimized Tol partners, right? So they might have different development processes. They might have different release cycles. They might have different testing on the back end. That would be, you know, more difficult to hook together collections, breaks a lot of that out and gives our partners a lot of freedom to innovate in their own time. Uh, >>release on their own cycle, the down cycle. We just released our new version of software, but you can't actually get the new Ansel modules that are updated for it until answerable releases is not always the thing that you know makes their product immediately useful. You know, you're a vendor, you really something new. You want people to start using it right away, not wait until, you know answerable comes around so >>and that new artifact also creates more network effects with the, you know, galaxy and automation hub. And you know, the new deployment options that we're gonna have available for that stuff. So it's, I think it's just leveling up, right? It's taking the same approach that's gotten us this foreign, just taking out to, uh, to another level. >>I certainly wouldn't consider it to be like that. Partners air separate part of our They're still definitely part of the community. It's just they have slightly different problems. And, you know, there were folks from all sorts of different companies who are partners in the contributor summit. Yesterday >>there were >>actually, you know, participating and you know, folks swapping stories and listening to each other and again being part of that feedback. >>Maybe just a little bit broader. You know, the other communities out there, I think of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, the Open Infrastructure Foundation. You're wearing your soul pin. I talk a little bit of our handsome How rentable plays across these other communities, which are, you know, very much mixture of the vendors and the end users. >>Well, I mean and will certainly had Sorry. Are you asking about how Ansel is relating to those other communities? Okay, Yeah, because I'm all about that. I mean, we certainly had a long standing sort of, ah fan base over in the open stacks slash open infrastructure foundation land. Most of the deployment tools for all of you know, all the different ways. So many ways to deploy open stack. A lot of them wound up settling on Ansel towards the end of time. You know, that community sort of matured, and, you know, there's a lot of periods of experimentation and, you know, that's one of the things is something's live. Something's didn't but the core parts of what you actually need to make a cloud or, you know, basically still there. Um And then we also have a ton of modules, actually unanswerable, that, you know, help people to operationalize all their open stack cloud stuff. Just like we have modules for AWS and Google Cloud and Azure and whoever else I'm leaving out this week as far as the C N. C f stuff goes, I mean again, we've seen a lot of you know how to get this thing up and running. Turns out Cooper Daddy's is not particularly easy to get up and running. It's even more complicated than a cloud sometimes, because it also assumes you've got a cloud of some sort already. And I like working on our thing. It's I can actually use it. It's pretty cool. Um, cube spray on. Then A lot of the other projects also have, you know, things that are related to Ansel. Now there's the answer. Will operator stuff? I don't know if you want to touch on that, but >>yeah, uh, we're working on. We know one of the big questions is ah, how do answerable, uh, and open shift slash kubernetes work together frequently and in sort of kubernetes land Open shift land. You want to keep his much as you can on the cluster. Lots of operations on the cluster. >>Sometimes you got >>to talk to things outside of the cluster, right? You got to set up some networking stuff, or you gotta go talk to an S three bucket. There's always something some storage thing. As much as you try to get things in a container land, there's all there's always legacy stuff. There's always new stuff, maybe edge stuff that might not all be part of your cluster. And so one of the things we're working on is making it easier to use answerable as part of your operator structure, to go and manage some of those things, using the operator framework that's already built into kubernetes and >>again, more complexity out there. >>Well, and and the thing is, we're great glue. Answerable is such great glue, and it's accessible to so many people and as the moon. As we move away from monolithic code bases to micro service's and vastly spread out code basis, it's not like the complexity goes away. The complexity simply moves to the relationship between the components and answerable. It's excellent glue for helping to manage those relationships between. >>Who doesn't like a glue layer >>everyone, if it's good and easy to understand, even better, >>the glue layers key guys, Thanks for coming on. Sharing your insights. Thank you so much for a quick minute to give a quick plug for the community. What's up? Stats updates. Quick projects Give a quick plug for what's going on the community real quick. >>You go first. >>We're big. We're 67 >>snow. It was number six. Number seven was kubernetes >>right. Number six out of 96 million projects on Get Hub. So lots of contributors. Lots of energy. >>Anytime. I tried to cite a stat, I find that I have to actually go and look it up. And I was about to sight again. >>So active, high, high numbers of people activity. What's that mean? You're running the plumbing, so obviously it's it's cloud on premise. Other updates. Projects of the contributor day. What's next, what's on the schedule. >>We're looking to put together our next contributor summit. We're hoping in Europe sometime in the spring, so we've got to get that on the plate. I don't know if we've announced the next answer will fast yet >>I know that happens tomorrow. So don't Don't really don't >>ruin that for everybody. >>Gradual ages on the great community. You guys done great. Work out in the open sores opened business. Open everything these days. Can't bet against open. >>But again, >>I wouldn't bet against open. >>We're here. Cube were open. Was sharing all the data here in Atlanta with the interviews. I'm John for his stupid men. Stayed with us for more after this short break.

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem barters >> Hey, welcome back to the cubes. Coverage of Sisqo Live from San Diego. Sunny San Diego. I'm Lisa Martin with Stew Minutemen today and stew and I are very pleased to welcome to the Cube for the first time. Peter Sprigg gotta distinguished engineer from red Hat. Peter, Welcome. >> Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. >> We're excited to have you here today. I'd like to say Welcome to the sun. Its pretty toasty for in this very cool sales pavilion, which is Ah, very nice. A bright. So we got a lot of bright, but we do have some heat. So you've been with Cisco Cisco? No, actually. >> Was what? Siskel Ugo? >> Two degrees of Kevin Bacon Way where? In this room. Right. You've been with Red Hat since the answerable acquisition. One of the things that was funny that Chuck Robbins mention this morning was this the 30th anniversary of Cisco event with customers and partners. He also mentioned 30 years ago Seinfeld started. So I'm gonna do a Jerry Seinfeld on go digital transformation. What's the deal with that. >> You know, I think that, you know, one of the things that's really exciting and being part of Ansel and actually coming from the network's base. You know, we've had the opportunity to really be out in front of this whole digital transfer station. We've been doing it for you very long time on it's been just It's really been all about a journey on DH. That's really what I think. Earmarks. Really? What answer was all about >> Peter? So another thing. We've been on a journey a long time. That whole automation thing. Yes, we've been talking about that my entire career in the network. So bring us forward. You know, maybe, you know, did not 30 years. But you know what's going on in the last couple of years, That's different about automation, you know, 30 2019. Then we would have talked about, you know, when you first joined. And >> yeah, you know, I think that when I first joined, you know, everything was we were just trying to convince people that this is something you should think about doing you. Now you look around, you see what's going on here, alive and at definite and it's become a whole world unto itself. It's really starting to define its own space and networking, which is really exciting to see because I've been part of this journey really since the get go. And it's just it's really exciting to watch this homeworld start to come together. And people really taken interest in changing really the way that we approached, cooperating in >> person, and I'm glad actually mentioned the definite zone that we're in here. So there's lots of workshops happening right next to us. Hear developers really helping to drive that transformation software a big piece of your world. I'm assuming >> it is. It really is, you know, And I always love to tell the story of, you know, I've got a software development background, but I also have a network operations background watching these two worlds come together. It's so exciting and being out at the forefront, really pushing the envelope off. What we can do from an automation perspective is really been exciting >> so as to mention we're in the definite zone. This definite communities mass it is John Fourier and I had the opportunity to cover definite create back in Mountain View about six or eight weeks ago. I think that number this is Yoo, he mentioned, is 585,000 members, strong looking at Red hat and the spirit of this open source community. Talk to us about sort of the alignment of these communities and how this is helping to drive, not just technology forward, but be able to get that feedback from customers in any industry to drive these emerging technologies into mainstream. >> You know, I think you touched on the key there. It really is all about the customer and the customer's experience. You know, the wonderful thing about open source community is the fact that we can all come together. Vendor supply our customer, you know, consulting team, whoever you are, we all can come together, and it really does become right. We're all better together, and we're all pushing forward and trying. Teo really change the way that we approach how we build design and operate now destruction. >> Peter Peter Wonder if you've got a you know, a customer example. I know sometimes you need to anonymous things are what kind of things are customers Went, went when they're going through this. The outcomes and results that change how their business works, >> you know? So one of the things that and I got one particular customer mind. I can't say who they are, but one particular customer that that we worked a lot of time with him. What >> they were >> able to do is they were actually able. We gave them back the gift of time. That's what we talked about with automation. And what we mean by that is they were able to take a job that used to take them literally weeks to get done, that we could now automate and get it done once a night twice, you know, do it in a single night as opposed to them taking ways to get that job done. That frees them up to doing the more high value work. That networking here's really wanted you and not saddle them with more Monday and stuff. >> So just to follow up on that because, you know, traditionally that's been one of the pieces right is how do you know make my employees mohr efficient? Howto I give them more environment, something that they talked about. The keynote this morning is some of the scale and some of the you know you're dealing with EJ applications and all these environments is even if I had the resource, I probably couldn't keep up with the pace of change. Correct. They're doing so when you start throwing in things like a I and ML on top of those. But there's time to find their way intersect with what you're doing. >> Absolutely, they really are. And it's areas that we're starting to look into a swell. You know, Ansel's been doing this for a long time, but we're starting to see how do we bring some of these other two separate pieces and bring them together underneath this automation umbrella? And really again, we want to drive out that that everyday task out of of the operations Hansel. They can focus on the high value things of evaluating technology and moving things forward for their organizations. >> You say you were able to give that particular customer back the gift of time. I've got everybody breathing on the planet today, wants back the gift of time. But I would love to follow that story down the road because the gift of time has so much potential. Posit did impact all the way up to the C suite. Teo, you know, being able to move resources around to identify new revenue streams, new business nodules, new products, new services expanded into new markets. So that gift of time is transformative. >> Absolutely. Without, without a doubt, it is. And you know what we're seeing and what we're getting feedback from our customers on is that because of that gift of time, they're able to now focus on pushing their businesses forward. Right? And they're starting to solve challenges that have always been on that traditional, ever going task list. Right? That never you never get Teo. And they're really starting to be able to focus on those tasks such that they can start to become more innovative. They become more agile and they focus on their business, not on the active managing technology. >> All right, So, Peter, another another big theme of the show here is multi cloud, something we heard. A lot of red has something. Also, it's this skill set that one of the biggest challenges for customers working behind between those various environment. How sensible helping customers bridge some of those worlds today. >> Well, so you know, obviously, Ansel's not just a network to write. We automate anything and everything. And we like to talk about Ansel as the language of automation and really what it does for organizations. Whether you're looking at at infrastructure, whether you're looking at hybrid Cloud, what we do is we bring a language to the operations team where you get these two separate teams talking in a dialect that they can understand each other. And that's really what Ancel starts to bring your two. Those organizations. >> That internal collaboration. Absolutely. Maybe bridging business folks and folks who not wouldn't normally necessarily be driving towards the same types of solution. Correct? Correct. And it really >> kind of starts. And this is actually how we see Answer will kind of unfolding most organizations, right? It starts in these pockets, and small teams will start to use answerable. And then it just kind of grows and grows and grows. And what we find is all of a sudden, you've got, you know, a cloud Administrator's going out talk to a network engineer, and they can talk through this language of automation instead of trying to figure out how to communicate. They actually become productive immediately. >> OKay, Peter, Some of the big waves coming down the line that we're talking the keynote this morning, You know, five g y 56 You know, just incremental changes, you know, in your world. Or, you know, what will some of these new architectures that they're talking about, you know, have some dramatic impacts? >> Well, they're gonna have huge. In fact, you know, I think you know one of the things That's very interesting. You look at some of these technologies coming down, the coming down the ways now is everything is getting faster. I mean, that's nothing that we've been. You know, anyone who's been a knight for any period of time knows it's always faster, faster, faster. But what it's doing is is it's really motivating us to look at ants one and rethink how we do certain things so that we can keep up with the demand and allow organizations to, you know, meet the demands of their customers in accelerating their time to market. >> Maybe dig into that a little bit more in terms of the customer feedback. How are you guys? How is answerable being able to work with your customers across any industry, get their feedback to really accelerate what you guys are able to then deliver back to the market. What's that feedback loop? Well, I think >> you know, when you think about automation, automation is certainly it's a technology, but it's also very much about how organizations work, right? I like to talk about automation is really more a state of mind, Not so necessarily a state of action. And so therefore, you know, we spend a lot of time with our customers to understand how do they run their business and how Khun Automation become a way that they think about running the organization and really help them move forward. So we spent a lot of time understanding our customers business before we ever get into the bits and bytes of what automation really is. >> Yeah, you mentioned some of those organizational pieces, like the cloud guy in the network guy. What are some of the biggest challenges that you're seeing customers these days, and, you know, how are they helping to, you know, mature the organization to this new modern, multi cloud developer centric? You know, software defined, you know, Buzz, word of the day. >> You know, I think that you know, the biggest challenge that we see every single day with our car? Does Moses. You know, just where to get started, how you get started with. There's so much of it out there. Now it's it's they're looking at, and how do you get started with this? And how do you let this thing take on a life of its own? And so we spent a lot of time just getting them. You 123 steps down the road, get going in the open source and then let it expand from there. And we bring a whole suite of capabilities, then to the customer, whether it's through red at consulting, whether it's you're working through our open source communities to really help them on that journey. >> Wondering customer meetings. Where is this conversation now with respect to automation? Is he talked about giving the gift back of time. That would go all the way up to the C suite. So much potential there. Are you still having the conversation with more? The technical folks are where the lines of business or maybe even the executive sweet in terms of being a part of this decision in understanding the massive impact that automation will deliver. >> Yeah, it was just starting to see that that trend transition. Now, you know, we just came off of Redhead Summit, and we spent a lot of time talking with senior directors. See sweet individuals about kind of that transition in how automation is. As I mentioned before, it's no longer just a technical tool in the tool back. It really is becoming a business tool and how you could leverage it to really drive the business. So that's those conversations air starting now. We're just starting to see that, and it's really it's really exciting is really an exciting time to be part of this. >> All right, Peter, what will tell us a little bit about what red hats got going out of the show? I happen to show this to stop down the show floor, I saw the like command line video game, which I see that Red House seems that's making the go around there. I know your team's having a lot of fun team who can get the high score. What else at the show should people be looking at for red hat? >> Well, so you know, In addition, to answer. Well, of course, we also spent a lot of time talking about open shift, which is the other big red hat, you know, flagship product and really, what we're doing in terms of being able to deliver and the multi G hybrid cloud infrastructure and be able to run workloads in any cloud infrastructure, no matter where that may be. And then, of course, they'd always always comes back. Tio the operating system Red hat. Lennox, you know, they go hand in hand, way are always gonna be about the operating system, and everything kind of bubbles up from there. >> So here we are, halfway through calendar year 2019 which is scary. What are some of the things that you're looking forward to as the rest of the year progresses? Some, you know, exciting things going with Red had a big blue, for example. >> Well, there there is there. Certainly that although you could probably tell me more about how that's going that I get to know even anymore. But you know, I think really, What? What's exciting about the second half of this year and you're going to hear more about it? Actually, a definite this is a good time for me to mention this is that you know, we're doing a lot with Cisco right now. One of the things that course you know, Cisco's making a huge investment in definite and Red Hat is really becoming a very key partner with Cisco in that. So you're going to see a lot of open source community work around red Hand Cisco collaborating together to enhance what Ansel's doing and try and bring even more traditional and nontraditional people into these communities. >> More collaboration, I presume, over some of their cognitive collaborations, >> like absolutely, absolutely. >> That does work on linen because I've been using blue jeans most the time. >> It does. I You know, I I I pushed them really hard because yes, at first I had troubles with it, But yes, now it worked fantastic on Lenny. I couldn't be happier. >> You heard it. Here, Peter, Thank you so much for joining stew and me on the Cube this afternoon. We appreciate your time. I >> appreciate it. Thank you so much for >> having all right. It was fun for stupid aman. I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live from Cisco live in sunny San Diego. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, It's theCUBE covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by Citrix. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage day two of our coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019. Lisa Martin with my cohost Keith Townsend, and we've got another CUBE alumni joining us, Dana Gardner, President and Principle Analyst at Interarbor Solutions. >> Sorry, my language skills are declining on day two. >> It's been a long day. >> It has been a long day. We've had, speaking of, had a lot of great conversations with Citrix Execs, customers, analysts over the last day and a half. People are very excited about what Citrix is doing with intelligence, experience, and really helping businesses to transform their workforces. But you have been following Citrix for a long time. >> Yes. >> So, talk to us about some of the early days back in the 90's. I'd love to get your perspectives on what you saw back then and what your thoughts are about some of the things that they're announcing at this event. >> Sure, well back in 1995-1996, the internet was still the new kid on the block, and browsers were kind of cool but, how would they ever help a business? And then, along comes this company that says, "Oh, we're not going to deliver things through a browser, we're going to deliver the whole app experience, apps that you're familiar with, your Windows-based apps over the wire. Over the internet protocol." Wow, so I remember at Internet Expo in New York at the Javits Center, Ed Iacobucci, The co-founder of Citrix got up there and explained how, yeah, we're going to deliver apps. And basically what they were describing is cloud computing as we know it today. Wow, it was very interesting, but we all kind of look at him like he was a little crazy. (host laughing) Yes. >> And, that's been a long time, man. Citrix has made a name for itself since then. You know, the day I was talking to David Hansel, yesterday and I said, "You know what, Citrix is a verb. I'm going to Citrix in an application. They established something for themselves." And, ironically, on stage yesterday he said, "85 percent of the IT budget goes to keeping the lights on." And I would firmly, as pre-kenote yesterday I'd say, you know what Citrix is firmly in that 85 percent of, they are rock, fast, hard technology partner, but they're in that 85 percent. But this intelligent experience I think kind of pushes them into that 15 percent of innovation. What did you think about yesterday's announcement? >> Well, based on my memory from 1996, I think it's consistent. That they're looking for something that's two or three years, maybe more out that will mature then. But they're not afraid of tackling it now. They had some really strong established businesses, but they're not resting on their laurels. They're looking at, I think a problem that almost everybody can identify with. In the past, their problems were people they could identify with in IT. The end user wasn't aware that anybody was Citrixing behind the scenes. Now, they're identifying issues that people have with work. The fact they were taking apps and services from multiple clouds, multiple data centers some of them our own company, some of our partners, some across an ecosystem or a supply chain, and it's becoming rather crowded. Disenfranchised. Fragmented. And people, I think are struggling to keep up with that amount of diversity. So, we're dealing with, yet again a heterogeneity problem, a reoccurring problem in technology. And Citrix is identifying with something that's a higher elevation than they had in the past. So, they're not addressing just IT although, that's where the actions going to take place to solve some of these problems. But they're focused on just about all of us. Whether we're working in a small, two or three person mom and pop shop or a 30,000 seat enterprise. >> And they've also done this pivot in the last, what we've heard in the last 24 hours, of really being positioned to the general user. Something that I didn't know until yesterday was that the majority of enterprise software has been designed for power users, which is one percent of the users. And so, they've really made that positioning pivot yesterday to, this is for the Marketing Managers, somebody in supply chain who has a day that is bombarded with seven to ten apps. They're losing hours and hours of productivity a week. You can look at that in terms of the amount of dollars that's being spent or wasted. But really making this, bringing those tasks to the user, those actions to the user. Rather than forcing the users to go out to all the different apps, put those pieces together. Oh, and then trying to get back to our actual day-to-day function. >> Right, we wouldn't have to talk about user experience if these things had been designed properly in the first place. It's a bit myopic on behalf of the IT power designer, that they often craft the product for themselves. That, this is still the dark arts behind the curtain thinking. It's very difficult for a highly efficient, productive IT group to create something for a non-IT audience. And I don't blame them, but it has to happen. It's going to happen one way or the other. So, we've seen companies that have taken extraordinary steps on usability, Apple computer is probably the poster child for this. Look at where it got them. There were lots of mobile phones around ten years ago, before the iPhone. Why did the iPhone become so popular, so dominant? Because of the usability. So, Citrix is I think, perhaps doing IT a favor by getting out in front of this. But still, if we're going to get IT in the hands of all people for productivity, what I look to is a fit-for-purpose mentality. No more, no less. You can't design it as if it's your own baby and your own special design, I don't know, once in a lifetime opportunity to strut your stuff. It has to be fit-for-purpose and it can't just be monolithic, where we're looking at little bits and pieces. So, the software's recent acquisition that Citrix made is going to be able to start picking out productivity units, for lack of a better term, from different applications, assimilate those in an environment, the workspace, where the productivity, the work flow, the goal of accomplishing business outcomes comes first and foremost. >> So Dana, let's talk a little bit about, you know the next level. Because it's broken. Even when you look at modern applications, one of the applications they showed on stage yesterday, was a cloud application. Salesforce. I mean, we know a people who make a good deal of money simplifying Salesforce, which is a born in the cloud application. This isn't just about cloud versus legacy, this is about end-user experiences, and end-users using applications in a way that makes them productive. One of the things that caught me as soon as Citrix said that they want to be the future of work, I tweeted out, "Well, you can't be the future of work unless you start to automate processes," and boom, intelligent experience. And the first thing that came to my mind was when we attended an event a couple weeks ago for RPA, Robotic Process Automation tool, that was very user-centric, but used the term "bots". Robots, sulfer robots that did the job. Citrix only used the term, "bots" once yesterday. What's your sense, is this a competitive solution to those partners? Or is this more of a complementary solution? >> I think Citrix is correctly trying to keep the horse in front of the cart and not the other way around. We have to look at work as flows of productivity first, and not conforming to the app second. But to get out in front and say, "Oh, it's all going to be animated and the robot will tell you what to do," I think does a disservice. So, let's take first things first. But let's not also lose track of the fact that by elevating work to a process and not just being locked into one platform, one cloud, one set of microservices on one framework, that we have the opportunity to integrate in analytics along the whole path. From beginning to end. And that we can even have the context of what you're doing feed back into how the analytics come at you. And reinforce one another. So, we need to get the process stuff set first. we need to recognize that people need to rethink getting off a desktop, getting out of email, looking at the full process. Looking at working across organizational boundaries. So, extra enterprise, supply-chain interactions, contingent workforce. Then, bring in analytics. So, first things first but it's going to be a very interesting mash-up when we can elevate process, get out of sort of silos, manage that heterogeneity and inject intelligence and context along the way. That changes the game. >> So, you've seen the workforce dramatically transform throughout your career. There are five generations of people in the workforce today. Madeleine Albright, there she was on stage this morning, 82 years old. I thought that was, what an inspiration? But companies have different generations, different experiences, different experiences with technology, differing expectations. What, in your opinion, did you hear yesterday from Citrix that is going to help businesses enable five different generations to be as productive as they want to be. >> Right, it's an extension of what Citrix has been doing for decades, and it's allowing more flexibility into where you are is accommodated. What device you're using can be accommodated. The fact that you want to be outside your home office but secure can be accommodated. So, what I heard was instead of locking in an application mentality, where everybody has to learn to use the same app, we need to have flexibility. And it's not just ages and generations. It's geographics, it's language, it's culture. People do business and they do work differently around the world. And they should be very well entitled to continue to do that. So, we need to create the systems that adjust to the people and read the people's work habits. And then reinforce them rather than force them into, let's say a monolithic ERP type of affair. And we've know that a large percentage of ERP projects over the years have failed. And it's not that the technology doesn't work, it's that sometimes, you can put a round peg in a square hole. >> Wow, speaking of round peg, square hole, IT, you know, they're preaching to the choir I think on this piece. You know, we want thing to be simpler. We want to get engaged. We want to solve this problem. But, is Citrix talking to the wrong audience when it comes to process automation? To your point, you have to have the large view of it, and a lot of timeS, especially folks at this conference, may not have the large view. How does Citrix get to the CMO's the COO's, the process people versus the technology folks. >> I think that's a significant challenge. Keith and I recorded a podcast with David Henchel earlier today and it'll be out in a few weeks on Briefings Direct, and I asked him that, I said, "You're well-known in the IT department. They use a verb, they're Citrixing. The end user, not so much. But if you're going to impact work as you intend to and as you've laid out here at Synergy, you do need to become more of a household word, and you need to brand and you need to impact." And we know one of the hardest things to do is to get people to change their behavior. You don't do that behind the scenes. In some ways, Citrix has been very modest. They haven't been the Citrix inside, they haven't branded and gone to market with. They've usually let their partners like Microsoft and now even Google Cloud be on the front page, even as they're behind the scenes. But I think they need to think a little bit differently. If they're going to impact people, people need to understand the value that Citrix is bringing. But identifying themselves as they have at this show with work and productivity issues, usability and intelligence will start that process. But I do think they can go further on their go-to-market and not just bring this message to their sales accounts, but to a larger work productivity, human capital management enterprise architect type of base. >> And they are making those impacts. Keith and I today have already spoken with their three innovation award nominees. There were over a thousand nominations. And we spoke with Schroders, which is a wealth management company based out of the UK and how they have been able, a 200 year old company, to really transform their culture with Citrix's workspace was, it was done so strategically, so methodically. But how they enabled that and a seamless integration in terms of their customer experience and engagement with their wealth managers was really compelling. Not only are they able to retain their probably longstanding wealth management clients, but they have the ability now, and the technology capabilities to allow their people to work remote three days a week if they want to or from wherever, and actually work on getting new clients. So, the business impact is really clear. We also spoke with Indiana University. They have gone from just enabling the students on the seven campuses to 130,000 plus across campuses online. They're enabling sight impaired people to also, by virtualization, have access to computer technology. So, you're talking about going from tens of thousands to a ten X at a minimum multiplier, and enabling professors to have conversations and hold classes with people in Budapest. Big impact. >> So Lisa, you're bringing up the point that user experience isn't just employing experience, it's end user and-- >> Absolutely >> Consumer experience. If you're going to do this and do it right, don't consider it just for your employees. It's for reaching out to the very edge of the markets, and that includes consumers and students and mom and pop shops and everything in-between. So when you do this right, and not only will you be delivering intelligence and context to your employees, you'll be able to start to better serve your customers. And that's what digital transformation is really about. >> It is, and the cultural transformation that Citrix is undergoing and that they're enabling their businesses to achieve, like the two we just talked about, are critical catalysts for digital transformation. But to me, employee experience and customer experiences are hand in hand because every employee, whatever function you're in, in some way you're a touchpoint to the customer. If you're in retail, you're presenting a shop-able moment as often as you can. But you also are dealing with customers who have choice to turn and go to another provider of that product or service. So, having those employees not only be satisfied, but have the tools that they need and the intelligence to deliver the content. >> So, I'd be happy to go to a brick and mortor shop. I'll walk in there physically if they can help me in the shopping experience be smarter, but if I can do it online in my bedroom on my browser, then I'll do it there. So it's no so much the interface or even the place anymore, it's who's going to give me the information to make the right decision and make me feel confident that I'm spending my money the most productively. Whether I'm a consumer or a business. So B-to-B. That's what's going to be the killer app, is the smart decision making, and the experience of bringing the right information, right place, right time. That's key. And that's what Citrix has repositioned itself for. I think it's really quite a dramatic shift for the company but they've done it before. >> Well, Dana it's been great having you back on theCUBE unpacking this. It's been an exciting day and a half for us and we look forward to having you back on theCUBE sometime soon. >> My pleasure. >> For Keith Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE Live from Citrix Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching.

>> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, It's theCUBE covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by Citrix. >> Welcome to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend at day two of theCUBE's coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019. Keith, it's great to be back with you. We had a great day yesterday. >> Wasn't it exciting? >> It was. >> And this is surprising. You know, I have to be honest, as a former Citrix customer, and as a watcher of it, David Hansel talked about the 85% of IT budgets goes into keeping the lights on, et cetera, I'd firmly put Citrix in that 85% of a company that produces solutions that basically kept the lights on. They snuck into the other 15% yesterday. It was a really interesting keynote. >> They've made an obvious pivot towards general-purpose users. David also mentioned, and this is something that I didn't know, that most enterprise software, historically, >> which is the one percent of users. And, they are really positioning Citrix Workspace, intelligent experience, for the general purpose user. The marketing managers, the folks in finance, et cetera, who can really leverage this tool, to dramatically, not just simplify their workdays, but they made this really bold promise, yesterday, that Citrix Workspace One, with the intelligence experience, is going to be able to give each person back, a user, one full day a week. That's two months a year back to actually do their jobs. >> I think I will choose to go on vacation for those two months. >> I'm with ya. >> But one of the things that was consistent, throughout the day was the tone of, one, excitement. All of the analysts, all of the executives we talked to yesterday, very excited about the intelligent experience, but it was, I think, it was more of a abstract thought versus solid, like, this is what the product will do, this is what it looks like, so I'm looking forward to the coming months of seeing the product in action. I could equate it to robotic process automation tools like UiPath and the MiniTools that are out there, but I didn't get a good sense of how deep Citrix is going to go in to robotic process automation, and who would control it. You mentioned the one percent power users. You know when you look at a automation tool, these are tools that are for the one percent, to create these automations, these processes. Will this be something that the Citrix administrators will do on the back end, and then deploy to end users and the app store, similar to how Citrix is deployed today? Or, is this something their going to give users, power-users, the ability to create, so a department team can create a process, an automated workflow, and then deploy that to their team members? I'm strong believer the further you push technology, simple to use to the end-user, the more powerful it becomes, and the more they come up with creative ways to use the technologies. >> And, also, the higher the adoption's going to be. You know, every tech conference we go to, Keith, talks about, you hear the buzzwords, simplicity, frictionless, make it seamless, those all sound great, and yes, of course, as employees of any company, you want that. It's, where does the rubber meet the road? So, I did read, though, that even though the intelligent experience isn't going to be GA until later this year, there are a suite of beta customers. So, I hope we can chat about that with P.J. Hough, their Chief Product Officer, later today to just get a sense of what are some of the impacts that this solution is having on some of these beta customers? Are they seeing significant reductions or increases in workforce productivity, getting towards that, hey, one whole day back? That was the busiest booth, I hear, at the Solutions Expo yesterday. There was a very long line, so the interest, certainly, was definitely peaked, in terms of what they announced yesterday with the audience here. >> So, today's going to be a pretty exciting day of coverage. We're going to talk to, hopefully, a few customers. We're going to talk to P.J., and I'm excited to, kind of, peel back the layers on the announcement around the intelligent experience. Then, we cap off the day with talking to their CTO, Christian Reilly, who, you know, is always fun. So, one thing that we didn't talk a lot about today, you know, KubeCon is happening in Europe, the team is there covering that show. And we didn't talk much cloud, yesterday. While there was announcements around Azure and Google Compute Platform, we didn't get in to, kind of, the details of that, so I'm looking forward to talking to Christian later on today about how is Citrix relevant to the cloud conversation? This whole future of work, we can't talk about the future of work without talking about cloud. >> Absolutely. I know that their cloud revenue is up, but you're right, that isn't something that we got in to yesterday. We really focused a lot on , with our spectrum of guests, on the employee experience. >> Mm hmm >> And, also, got a really broad definition, you know. Employee experience isn't just about when I log in, as a manager, on all of the different tasks that I need to do before I can actually start my function. It starts back, up and to the left, when you even start recruiting for talent. >> Right. >> And, that was, eyeopening to me is they're right, it encompasses the end to end. I kind of thought of it as a marketing funnel, where you're nurturing prospects in to leads, converting them in to opportunities. And then, one of the most important things on the marketing funnel, that's very similar here, is turning those customers in to advocates. Same thing on the employee experience side, is turning those employees in to empowered users that are happy because they're able to be productive and do their jobs appropriately. And then, of course, their business has nurtured them well enough that they retain that top talent. >> We did get, at least, one customer on, yesterday. We talked to Adam Jones, the CRO, Chief Revenue Officer of the Florida Marlins. I got a opportunity to get a dig in on the Chicago Cubs, so that's always a fun thing. But, even from a customer's perspective, Adam brings the COO lens. So usually you're over HR, you're over vendor partnerships, et cetera, he talked about the importance of, one, giving his employees a seamless experience, so he talked about the employee experience, and, overall, keeping the motivation factor high. Speaking of motivation, we learned a new term yesterday, ToMo. >> Love that term. >> Total motivation? What was it? >> Yeah, total motivation. >> Total motivation, so I'm definitely going to look at my ToMo score for the couple of contractors I have on my staff. (laughing) Or at least try and develop one. I thought it was a great, a great, great acronym, but, more importantly, I think organizations are starting to understand. Employee satisfaction, employee experience equates to outcomes when it comes to customer experience. >> 100% >> If your employees are not having a great experience, we talked about onboarding experiences yesterday. If that isn't happening, then chances are, there's a direct correlation between customer experience and employee experience. >> It's a huge risk that companies can't ignore. Employee experience is essential. We talked, yesterday, like you said, about every employee engagement has some relation back to the customer. >> Right. Whether you're in marketing, and you're creating collateral to nurture prospects, or you're in finance, or legal, or you're in the contact center, you're a touchpoint to that customer. And so, you're experience, as an employee, they need to foster those relationships to turn those employees in to advocates. Because the customers, for whatever product or service you're delivering, 'cause we have so much choice these days. The ability to go, "Nope, this isn't working." "I'm going to go find another vendor "who can deliver this service." is a big risk, and so, we were talking to Maribel Lopez yesterday, of Lopez Research, you could really hear her passion in the research that she's done on the future of work. We talked about employee experience, to your point, absolutely critical for customer satisfaction. Employee experience is really essential for digital transformation because businesses really can't transform, successfully, if the employees aren't productive, aren't satisfied, and able to adapt to changing culture as a business digitizes itself. >> As we talk about that other 15 to 20% of innovation, it's odd that we're having this employee experience conversation at Citrix. Citrix isn't a HR software company, let alone a HR company, and we talked to David about this in the opening. How do they transition from just having this conversation with IT administrators, which is the primary audience, here, at Citrix Synergy, to having this conversation with CEOs, CIOs, CMOs, CDOs, the COOs, other C-suite executives. Does Citrix belong at the table, versus these traditional companies we think of? The management consultant firms, who specialize in HR and employee experience, or even other software companies, like SAP with HRM. I thought it was interesting that a lot of the executives that we talked to yesterday, had an experience with SAP. So, Citrix is, absolutely, going about this in a prescribed manner and injecting this culture in to their company. >> I agree with you. We talked to their Chief People Officer and EVP, Donna Kimmel, and with a number of other guests, about the employee experience being a C-level, not just a conversation topic, but an imperative. Because, all of the cogs need to be functioning in the same direction for this company to move forward, and as I mentioned earlier, as every product and service has competition, us consumers, whether we're consumers of commercial products, or technology buyers, we have choice. >> Right. >> And, so, an organization needs to bake in to their culture, the employee experience, in order to ensure that its survival rate and its competitive advantage can go, 'cause we actually did talk about talent attraction and retention as a competitive advantage. And Citrix has done a good job of, you're right, not producing technology for HR, but really being able to speak to that business case being horizontal across any type of organization. >> I thought it was a really interesting point, or at least something that I thought about yesterday, at Citrix, again, we have a bunch of network administrators, system administrators, VP of Infrastructures, that is the traditional audience. A lot of times, we can fill abstracted. That audience can feel abstracted from the business. When you're a call center, when you're in sales, when you're actually touching customers, employee experience, obviously, makes sense then. But, I thought the demonstration with the marketing manager really helped this audience connect with more of those frontline employees and helping to improve their experience and bringing meaning to that traditional network or sysadmin job. You know, when you feel like you're absolutely moving the productivity ball forward. This is generational. Adam Jones of the Marlins said that he's in a generational opportunity. To affect change, administrators will find themselves in a generational opportunity to affect change, to move more than just, you know what, we're going to turn knobs, to actually impacting business processes. >> You talk about generational opportunities. One of the things we talked about yesterday is not just that there are five generations in the workforce today, who have differing levels of technology expertise, but, this morning in the Super Session, we got the opportunity to hear from Dr. Madelyn Albright, the 64th Secretary of State of the United States, the first female Secretary of State. And, I loved how she talked about diplomacy, and democracy, and all of the experiences that's she's had in relation to how technology can be an enabler of that. When I Wiki-ed her, I thought, "She's 82 years old." >> 82? "And there's Madelyn Albright, who is still "professing at Georgetown University." I thought that was pretty outstanding. >> You know, you made the point, in our pre-discussion, about she started at Secretary of State, didn't have a computer on here desk, to riding in the driverless car, and obviously, speaking at a technology conference, I thought it was a great testament to where technology has moved, her ability to embrace change, but, more importantly, what it will take. I think she was a model of what it will take. Another interesting point that she made today was trust and knowing whom you're doing business with. We talked about security a awful lot yesterday. Just from a practical technical sense, being able to trust that the person that I'm talking to on the other end of the phone, is actually who they say they are, or on the other end of a transaction. As we start to share data, make the flow of data allow frictionless sharing of data, we need to be able to trust who we're talking to on the other end. She said, any time something happens in the world, the first piece of information she gets is always wrong is her approach to validation. Trust, but validate. I thought there was a lot of great parallels in that to technology. >> I did as well. On the security front, we talked, yesterday, about, not just the digital workspace of Citrix, but what they're doing on the security and the analytics front to really understand and ensure that the data that they're getting off of users interacting through workspace, is ensuring, that, okay, this person is authorized to be in this application and this particular area of this application. What were some of the things that you heard, with respect to security, that you think Citrix is getting it right? Because, as we know, people; number one security threat, anywhere. >> Well, you know, Citrix has, traditionally, been a leader in products like Single Sign-On, the ability to make the technology frictionless. There's a reason why we have a Post-It Note, right here, with the ID, you know. For our user name and password, it's 13 characters, has to be alphanumeric, et cetera, and then it expires every 30 days. That's not frictionless security. Citrix has made waves in Single Sign-On in making sure that the user experience is frictionless, so that security, as users, we don't try and bypass that security. I think that's just a simple concept that organizations should follow. Then, even on the side of analytics, we have Kevin Jackson of >> GovCloud. >> GovNet on, and he talked about how monitoring employees changes their actions. So, as we're collecting analytics and data to automate processes, how Citrix is making it seamless, and in the course of that, anonymizing the data, so that employees don't feel like big brother is watching. >> Yeah. I thought, you know, the more exposure I get, through theCUBE, to different technologies, the more I've changed my perspective on that. Is it big brother watching me? >> Right. >> Even in call centers, when, this call may be recorded, you think, "Oh, great." Actually, they're using that data, to your point, as Kevin talked about yesterday, its anonymized, but the goal is to make the product and service and communications better. And another thing that it can facilitate, where Citrix is concerned, is making that workspace and that employee experience personalized. >> Yeah. >> Which is what we all expect as consumers. When we go on Amazon, and we want to buy something, we don't want them to show it again. We expect that they know. I've already bought this, maybe service something to me that would be a great addition to whatever I bought. We want that personalized experience to make our lives easier, and that personalization is another big element that they talked about delivering yesterday. And the security and the analytics, I think, are two pieces that can be facilitators of that. Could just also be, sort of, a messenger to make sure more of the users understand the anonymization and how that data about their interactions are actually going to make their experiences better. >> I bought a new laptop, by Microsoft, a week ago, and I was on Facebook, and all of the sudden, I got a ad from Microsoft on Facebook about laptop and laptops accessories. At first, I thought, "Wow, that's weird." But, that may be the first Facebook ad I've ever clicked on because that actually added value. While I felt a little strange about them knowing that I bought a new laptop, Facebook gave me the option to find out how did the ad get served up. Well, Microsoft uploaded a HashSet of email addresses, and my Surface purchase came up, and actually it added value. I was like, "Okay, I can find out what "other material." So, at the end of the day, when you're transparent about what you're doing, and you inform users, and you add value, the end of the day's the key part, you have to add value, doesn't help to advertise Surface laptops after I already bought one. Now, and to, that next stage, to show me accessories and make my experience, my relationship with Microsoft even better, is a great example of that. >> Exactly. Jeff Fritz calls that the line between being creepy >> Yes. >> and being magic, but I like how you add that part of that magic is adding value. >> Exactly. >> 100%. Well, Keith, I'm excited for today. We have, you mentioned, P.J.'s on today, Calvin Hsu is also on today. We're going to be talking with the three Innovation Award nominees. That's a very cool, kind of, American Idol-style voting process, where the public can vote on the Innovation Award winner, which will be announced tomorrow. So, excited about everything we're going to talk about today, and, as you mentioned, we're capping things off today with Christian Reilly, CTO, who we already see, through Twitter, is very excited to be theCUBE with us. >> All right. >> All right, have a great day, yeah? >> Yes. >> All right. >> Let's get to it. >> That's a deal. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend, and, again, we are live at Citrix Synergy 2019 in Atlanta, Georgia. Keith and I will be back with our first guest after a break.