from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante you know we've often said that the next 10 years in cloud computing won't be like the last ten cloud has firmly planted its footprint on the other side of the chasm with the momentum of the entire multi-trillion dollar tech business behind it both sellers and buyers are leaning in by adopting cloud technologies and many are building their own value layers on top of cloud in the coming years we expect innovation will continue to coalesce around the three big u.s clouds plus alibaba in apac with the ecosystem building value on top of the hardware saw tooling provided by the hyperscalers now importantly we don't see this as a race to the bottom rather our expectation is that the large public cloud players will continue to take cost out of their platforms through innovation automation and integration while other cloud providers and the ecosystem including traditional companies that buy it mine opportunities in their respective markets as matt baker of dell is fond of saying this is not a zero sum game welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll update you on our latest projections in the cloud market we'll share some new etr survey data with some surprising nuggets and drill into this the important cloud database landscape first we want to take a look at what people are talking about in cloud and what's been in the recent news with the exception of alibaba all the large cloud players have reported earnings google continues to focus on growth at the expense of its profitability google reported that it's cloud business which includes applications like google workspace grew 45 percent to five and a half billion dollars but it had an operating loss of 890 billion now since thomas curion joined google to run its cloud business google has increased head count in its cloud business from 25 000 25 000 people now it's up to 40 000 in an effort to catch up to the two leaders but playing catch up is expensive now to put this into perspective let's go back to aws's revenue in q1 2018 when the company did 5.4 billion so almost exactly the same size as google's current total cloud business and aws is growing faster at the time at 49 don't forget google includes in its cloud numbers a big chunk of high margin software aws at the time had an operating profit of 1.4 billion that quarter around 26 of its revenues so it was a highly profitable business about as profitable as cisco's overall business which again is a great business this is what happens when you're number three and didn't get your head out of your ads fast enough now in fairness google still gets high marks on the quality of its technology according to corey quinn of the duck bill group amazon and google cloud are what he called neck and neck with regard to reliability with microsoft azure trailing because of significant disruptions in the past these comments were made last week in a bloomberg article despite some recent high-profile outages on aws not surprisingly a microsoft spokesperson said that the company's cloud offers industry-leading reliability and that gives customers payment credits after some outages thank you turning to microsoft and cloud news microsoft's overall cloud business surpassed 22 billion in the december quarter up 32 percent year on year like google microsoft includes application software and sas offerings in its cloud numbers and gives little nuggets of guidance on its azure infrastructure as a service business by the way we estimate that azure comprises about 45 percent of microsoft's overall cloud business which we think hit a 40 billion run rate last quarter microsoft guided in its earning call that recent declines in the azure growth rates will reverse in q1 and that implies sequential growth for azure and finally it was announced that the ftc not the doj will review microsoft's announced 75 billion acquisition of activision blizzard it appears ftc chair lena khan wants to take this one on herself she of course has been very outspoken about the power of big tech companies and in recent a recent cnbc interview suggested that the u.s government's actions were a meaningful contributor back then to curbing microsoft's power in the 90s i personally found that dubious just ask netscape wordperfect novell lotus and spc the maker of harvard presentation graphics how effective the government was in curbing microsoft power generally my take is that the u s government has had a dismal record regulating tech companies most notably ibm and microsoft and it was market forces company hubris complacency and self-inflicted wounds not government intervention these were far more effective than the government now of course if companies are breaking the law they should be punished but the u.s government hasn't been very productive in its actions and the unintended consequences of regulation could be detrimental to the u.s competitiveness in the race with china but i digress lastly in the news amazon announced earnings thursday and the company's value increased by 191 billion dollars on friday that's a record valuation gain for u.s stocks aws amazon's profit engine grew 40 percent year on year for the quarter it closed the year at 62 billion dollars in revenue and at a 71 billion dollar revenue run rate aws is now larger than ibm which without kindrel is at a 67 billion dollar run rate just for context ibm's revenue in 2011 was 107 billion dollars now there's a conversation going on in the media and social that in order to continue this growth and compete with microsoft that aws has to get into the sas business and offer applications we don't think that's the right strategy for amp from for amazon in the near future rather we see them enabling developers to compete in that business finally amazon disclosed that 48 of its top 50 customers are using graviton 2 instances why is this important because aws is well ahead of the competition in custom silicon chips is and is on a price performance curve that is far better than alternatives especially those based on x86 this is one of the reasons why we think this business is not a race to the bottom aws is being followed by google microsoft and alibaba in terms of developing custom silicon and will continue to drive down their internal cost structures and deliver price performance equal to or better than the historical moore's law curves so that's the recent news for the big u.s cloud providers let's now take a look at how the year ended for the big four hyperscalers and look ahead to next year here's a table we've shown this view before it shows the revenue estimates for worldwide is and paths generated by aws microsoft alibaba and google now remember amazon and alibaba they share clean eye ass figures whereas microsoft and alphabet only give us these nuggets that we have to interpret and we correlate those tidbits with other data that we gather we're one of the few outlets that actually attempts to make these apples to apples comparisons there's a company called synergy research there's another firm that does this but i really can't map to their numbers their gcp figures look far too high and azure appears somewhat overestimated and they do include other stuff like hosted private cloud services but it's another data point that you can use okay back to the table we've slightly adjusted our gcp figures down based on interpreting some of alphabet's statements and other survey data only alibaba has yet to announce earnings so we'll stick to a 2021 market size of about 120 billion dollars that's a 41 growth rate relative to 2020 and we expect that figure to increase by 38 percent to 166 billion in 2022 now we'll discuss this a bit later but these four companies have created an opportunity for the ecosystem to build what we're calling super clouds on top of this infrastructure and we're seeing it happen it was increasingly obvious at aws re invent last year and we feel it will pick up momentum in the coming months and years a little bit more on that later now here's a graphical view of the quarterly revenue shares for these four companies notice that aws has reversed its share erosion and is trending up slightly aws has accelerated its growth rate four quarters in a row now it accounted for 52 percent of the big four hyperscaler revenue last year and that figure was nearly 54 in the fourth quarter azure finished the year with 32 percent of the hyper scale revenue in 2021 which dropped to 30 percent in q4 and you can see gcp and alibaba they're neck and neck fighting for the bronze medal by the way in our recent 2022 predictions post we said google cloud platform would surpass alibaba this year but given the recent trimming of our numbers google's got some work to do for that prediction to be correct okay just to put a bow on the wikibon market data let's look at the quarterly growth rates and you'll see the compression trends there this data tracks quarterly revenue growth rates back to 20 q1 2019 and you can see the steady downward trajectory and the reversal that aws experienced in q1 of last year now remember microsoft guided for sequential growth and azure so that orange line should trend back up and given gcp's much smaller and big go to market investments that we talked about we'd like to see an acceleration there as well the thing about aws is just remarkable that it's able to accelerate growth at a 71 billion run rate business and alibaba you know is a bit more opaque and likely still reeling from the crackdown of the chinese government we're admittedly not as close to the china market but we'll continue to watch from afar as that steep decline in growth rate is somewhat of a concern okay let's get into the survey data from etr and to do so we're going to take some time series views on some of the select cloud platforms that are showing spending momentum in the etr data set you know etr uses a metric we talked about this a lot called net score to measure that spending velocity of products and services netscore basically asks customers are you spending more less or the same on a platform and a vendor and then it subtracts the lesses from the moors and that yields a net score this chart shows net score for five cloud platforms going back to january 2020. note in the table that the table we've inserted inside that chart shows the net score and shared n the latter metric indicates the number of mentions in the data set and all the platforms we've listed here show strong presence in the survey that red dotted line at 40 percent that indicates spending is at an elevated level and you can see azure and aws and vmware cloud on aws as well as gcp are all nicely elevated and bounding off their october figures indicating continued cloud momentum overall but the big surprise in these figures is the steady climb and the steep bounce up from oracle which came in just under the 40 mark now one quarter is not necessarily a trend but going back to january 2020 the oracle peaks keep getting higher and higher so we definitely want to keep watching this now here's a look at some of the other cloud platforms in the etr survey the chart here shows the same time series and we've now brought in some of the big hybrid players notably vmware cloud which is vcf and other on-prem solutions red hat openstack which as we've reported in the past is still popular in telcos who want to build their own cloud we're also starting to see hpe with green lake and dell with apex show up more and ibm which years ago acquired soft layer which was really essentially a bare metal hosting company and over the years ibm cobbled together its own public cloud ibm is now racing after hybrid cloud using red hat openshift as the linchpin to that strategy now what this data tells us first of all these platforms they don't have the same presence in the data set as do the previous players vmware is the one possible exception but other than vmware these players don't have the spending velocity shown in the previous chart and most are below the red line hpe and dell are interesting and notable in that they're transitioning their early private cloud businesses to dell gr sorry hpe green lake and dell apex respectively and finally after years of kind of staring at their respective navels in in cloud and milking their legacy on-prem models they're finally building out cloud-like infrastructure for their customers they're leaning into cloud and marketing it in a more sensible and attractive fashion for customers so we would expect these figures are going to bounce around for a little while for those two as they settle into a groove and we'll watch that closely now ibm is in the process of a complete do-over arvin krishna inherited three generations of leadership with a professional services mindset now in the post gerschner gerstner era both sam palmisano and ginny rometty held on far too long to ibm's service heritage and protected the past from the future they missed the cloud opportunity and they forced the acquisition of red hat to position the company for the hybrid cloud remedy tried to shrink to grow but never got there krishna is moving faster and with the kindred spin is promising mid-single-digit growth which would be a welcome change ibm is a lot of work to do and we would expect its net score figures as well to bounce around as customers transition to the future all right let's take a look at all these different players in context these are all the clouds that we just talked about in a two-dimensional view the vertical axis is net score or spending momentum and the horizontal axis is market share or presence or pervasiveness in the data set a couple of call-outs that we'd like to make here first the data confirms what we've been saying what everybody's been saying aws and microsoft stand alone with a huge presence many tens of billions of dollars in revenue yet they are both well above the 40 line and show spending momentum and they're well ahead of gcp on both dimensions second vmware while much smaller is showing legitimate momentum which correlates to its public statements alibaba the alibaba in this survey really doesn't have enough sample to make hardcore conclusions um you can see hpe and dell and ibm you know similarly they got a little bit more presence in the data set but they clearly have some work to do what you're seeing there is their transitioning their legacy install bases oracle's the big surprise look what oracle was in the january survey and how they've shot up recently now we'll see if this this holds up let's posit some possibilities as to why it really starts with the fact that oracle is the king of mission critical apps now if you haven't seen video on twitter you have to check it out it's it's hilarious we're not going to run the video here but the link will be in our post but i'll give you the short version some really creative person they overlaid a data migration narrative on top of this one tooth guy who speaks in spanish gibberish but the setup is he's a pm he's a he's a a project manager at a bank and aws came into the bank this of course all hypothetical and said we can move all your apps to the cloud in 12 months and the guy says but wait we're running mission critical apps on exadata and aws says there's nothing special about exadata and he starts howling and slapping his knee and laughing and giggling and talking about the 23 year old senior engineer who says we're going to do this with microservices and he could tell he was he was 23 because he was wearing expensive sneakers and what a nightmare they encountered migrating their environment very very very funny video and anyone who's ever gone through a major migration of mission critical systems this is gonna hit home it's funny not funny the point is it's really painful to move off of oracle and oracle for all its haters and its faults is really the best environment for mission critical systems and customers know it so what's happening is oracle's building out the best cloud for oracle database and it has a lot of really profitable customers running on-prem that the company is migrating to oracle cloud infrastructure oci it's a safer bet than ripping it and putting it into somebody else's cloud that doesn't have all the specialized hardware and oracle knowledge because you can get the same integrated exadata hardware and software to run your database in the oracle cloud it's frankly an easier and much more logical migration path for a lot of customers and that's possibly what's happening here not to mention oracle jacks up the license price nearly doubles the license price if you run on other clouds so not only is oracle investing to optimize its cloud infrastructure it spends money on r d we've always talked about that really focused on mission critical applications but it's making it more cost effective by penalizing customers that run oracle elsewhere so this possibly explains why when the gartner magic quadrant for cloud databases comes out it's got oracle so well positioned you can see it there for yourself oracle's position is right there with aws and microsoft and ahead of google on the right-hand side is gartner's critical capabilities ratings for dbms and oracle leads in virtually all of the categories gartner track this is for operational dvms so it's kind of a narrow view it's like the red stack sweet spot now this graph it shows traditional transactions but gartner has oracle ahead of all vendors in stream processing operational intelligence real-time augmented transactions now you know gartner they're like old name framers and i say that lovingly so maybe they're a bit biased and they might be missing some of the emerging opportunities that for example like snowflake is pioneering but it's hard to deny that oracle for its business is making the right moves in cloud by optimizing for the red stack there's little question in our view when it comes to mission critical we think gartner's analysis is correct however there's this other really exciting landscape emerging in cloud data and we don't want it to be a blind spot snowflake calls it the data cloud jamactagani calls it data mesh others are using the term data fabric databricks calls it data lake house so so does oracle by the way and look the terminology is going to evolve and most of the action action that's happening is in the cloud quite frankly and this chart shows a select group of database and data warehouse companies and we've filtered the data for aws azure and gcp customers accounts so how are these accounts or companies that were showing how these vendors were showing doing in aws azure and gcp accounts and to make the cut you had to have a minimum of 50 mentions in the etr survey so unfortunately data bricks didn't make it just not enough presence in the data set quite quite yet but just to give you a sense snowflake is represented in this cut with 131 accounts aws 240 google 108 microsoft 407 huge [ __ ] 117 cloudera 52 just made the cut ibm 92 and oracle 208. again these are shared accounts filtered by customers running aws azure or gcp the chart shows a net score lime green is new ads forest green is spending more gray is flat spending the pink is spending less and the bright red is defection again you subtract the red from the green and you get net score and you can see that snowflake as we reported last week is tops in the data set with a net score in the 80s and virtually no red and even by the way single digit flat spend aws google and microsoft are all prominent in the data set as is [ __ ] and snowflake as i just mentioned and they're all elevated over the 40 mark cloudera yeah what can we say once they were a high flyer they're really not in the news anymore with anything compelling other than they just you know took the company private so maybe they can re-emerge at some point with a stronger story i hope so because as you can see they actually have some new additions and spending momentum in the green just a lot of customers holding steady and a bit too much red but they're in the positive territory at least with uh plus 17 percent unlike ibm and oracle and this is the flip side of the coin ibm they're knee-deep really chest deep in the middle of a major transformation we've said before arvind krishna's strategy and vision is at least achievable prune the portfolio i.e spin out kindrel sell watson health hold serve with the mainframe and deal with those product cycles shift the mix to software and use red hat to win the day in hybrid red hat is working for ibm's growing well into the double digits unfortunately it's not showing up in this chart with little database momentum in aws azure and gcp accounts zero new ads not enough acceleration and spending a big gray middle in nearly a quarter of the base in the red ibm's data and ai business only grew three percent this last quarter and the word database wasn't even mentioned once on ibm's earnings call this has to be a concern as you can see how important database is to aws microsoft google and the momentum it's giving companies like snowflake and [ __ ] and others which brings us to oracle with a net score of minus 12. so how do you square the momentum in oracle cloud spending and the strong ratings and databases from gartner with this picture good question and i would say the following first look at the profile people aren't adding oracle new a large portion of the base 25 is reducing spend by 6 or worse and there's a decent percentage of the base migrating off oracle with a big fat middle that's flat and this accounts for the poor net score overall but what etr doesn't track is how much is being spent rather it's an account based model and oracle is heavily weighted toward big spenders running mission critical applications and databases oracle's non-gaap operating margins are comparable to ibm's gross margins on a percentage basis so a very profitable company with a big license and maintenance in stall basin oracle has focused its r d investments into cloud erp database automation they've got vertical sas and they've got this integrated hardware and software story and this drives differentiation for the company but as you can see in this chart it has a legacy install base that is constantly trying to minimize its license costs okay here's a little bit of different view on the same data we expand the picture with the two dimensions of net score on the y-axis and market share or pervasiveness on the horizontal axis and the table insert is how the data gets plotted y and x respectively not much to add here other than to say the picture continues to look strong for those companies above the 40 line that are focused and their focus and have figured out a clear cloud strategy and aren't necessarily dealing with a big install base the exception of course is is microsoft and the ones below the line definitely have parts of their portfolio which have solid momentum but they're fighting the inertia of a large install base that moves very slowly again microsoft had the advantage of really azure and migrating those customers very quickly okay so let's wrap it up starting with the big three cloud players aws is accelerating and innovating great example is custom silicon with nitro and graviton and other chips that will help the company address concerns related to the race to the bottom it's not a race to zero aws we believe will let its developers go after the sas business and for the most part aws will offer solutions that address large vertical markets think call centers the edge remains a wild card for aws and all the cloud players really aws believes that in the fullness of time all workloads will run in the public cloud now it's hard for us to imagine the tesla autonomous vehicles running in the public cloud but maybe aws will redefine what it means by its cloud microsoft well they're everywhere and they're expanding further now into gaming and the metaverse when he became ceo in 2014 many people said that satya should ditch xbox just as an aside the joke among many oracle employees at the time was that safra katz would buy her kids and her nieces and her nephews and her kids friends everybody xbox game consoles for the holidays because microsoft lost money for everyone that they shipped well nadella has stuck with it and he sees an opportunity to expand through online gaming communities one of his first deals as ceo was minecraft now the acquisition of activision will make microsoft the world's number three gaming company by revenue behind only 10 cent and sony all this will be powered by azure and drive more compute storage ai and tooling now google for its part is battling to stay relevant in the conversation luckily it can afford the massive losses it endures in cloud because the company's advertising business is so profitable don't expect as many have speculated that google is going to bail on cloud that would be a huge mistake as the market is more than large enough for three players which brings us to the rest of the pack cloud ecosystems generally and aws specifically are exploding the idea of super cloud that is a layer of value that spans multiple clouds hides the underlying complexity and brings new value that the cloud players aren't delivering that's starting to bubble to the top and legacy players are staying close to their customers and fighting to keep them spending and it's working dell hpe cisco and smaller predominantly on-plan prem players like pure storage they continue to do pretty well they're just not as sexy as the big cloud players the real interesting activity it's really happening in the ecosystem of companies and firms within industries that are transforming to create their own digital businesses virtually all of them are running a portion of their offerings on the public cloud but often connecting to on-premises workloads and data think goldman sachs making that work and creating a great experience across all environments is a big opportunity and we're seeing it form right before our eyes don't miss it okay that's it for now thanks to my colleague stephanie chan who helped research this week's topics remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen just search breaking analysis podcast check out etr's website at etr dot ai and also we publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com you can get in touch with me email me at david.velante siliconangle.com you can dm me at divalante or comment on my linkedin post this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr have a great week stay safe be well and we'll see you next time [Music] you

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by Silicon angle. Hello. We wanna welcome back to the Cuban cloud where we're talking to CEOs, C. E. O s, chief technology officers and investors. On the future of Cloud with me is Dave Humphrey, who is the managing director and co head of Private Equity North America at Bain Capital. They've welcome to the Cube. First time, I think. >>First time. Yeah, David, thanks very much for having so >>let's get right into it. As an investor, how are you thinking about the evolution of cloud? When you look back at the last decade, you know it's not gonna be the same, uh, in this coming decade, you know, Thio ironic 2020 is has thrown us into, you know, the accelerated digital transformation and cloud. But how do you look at the evolution of cloud from an investment perspective? What's your thesis? >>That's a great question, David. You know, for us, we're focused on investing in technology and really across the economy. And I'd say the cloud is the overarching trends and dynamic in the technology markets. And really, for two reasons, one is a major shift. Of course, that's going on. But the second and frankly, even more interesting one to us is all the growth that the cloud is creating in the technology marketplace. You know the ship. It has been well covered. But five years ago in 2015, by our analysis, two thirds of all computing workloads were done on premises and Onley. Five years later, that's that's flipped. So two thirds of all computing workloads now done done in the cloud. And, of course, that shift. There's a lot of ramifications as an investor. But even more interesting dust is the growth in technology and the usage of technology that the cloud is creating. So over that same period of time, the total number of computing workloads run has increased by 2.6 times just a five year period time, which is really a a dramatic thing. And it makes sense when you think about all the new software applications that could be created, all the data that could be used by new users and new segments, and the real time inside that could be gleaned from that is that growth that really were focused on investing behind a Z. Investors in technology. You >>know, it's interesting you just took share those numbers and you hear a lot of numbers. I I actually think you you know, you your even being conservative. You know, Ginny Rometty used to talk about 80% of workloads or are still on Prem. Andy Jassy it reinvent said that 96% of spending is still on premises. So that was kind of an interesting stat. And I guess the other thing that I would, I would note is it's not just a share shift. It is. It's not just, you know, the cloud eating away it on Prem. We've clearly seen that, but there's also incremental opportunity as well. If you look at snowflake, for example, and adding value on top of, you know across multiple clouds and creating new markets, so there's there's that, you know, double that 12 punch of stealing share from on Prem but also incremental growth, which is probably accelerated as a result of this, you know, compressed digital transformation. So when you look at the Big Three cloud players, I mean roughly speaking, they probably account for $80 billion in total revenue which I guess is a small portion of the overall I t. Market. So it has a a long way to go. But But what's the best way to get good returns from an investment standpoint without getting clobbered by their tendency to sometimes coop some of the best ideas and put them on their primary services? >>Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, for us, uh, it really comes back to the same fundamental principles we look for in any investment, which is finding a business that solves a really important problem for its customers and does so in a way that's really advantaged vs competition can and do something that other competitors just can't do, whether those be the hyper scale is that you're describing or, you know, other specialized and focused competitors, and then finding a way that we can partner with those companies to help them to accelerate their growth. So surely the growth of the likes of AWS and Microsoft and Google, as you're describing, has been a profound competitive shift, along with the cloud shift that we've all talked about. And those companies, of course, can offer and do things that you past purveyors of computing couldn't. But fundamentally, they're selling and infrastructure layer, and there is room for all sorts of new competitors and new applications that can do something better than anybody else can. So any company that we're looking at, we're asking ourselves the question. Why are they the best ones to do what they're doing? How could they solve the most problem for their customers and do that in a way that's that's Brazilian and we see lots of those opportunities, >>and I wanna I wanna pick your brain about the Nutanix investment. But before we get there, I wonder if you could just talk about Bain Capital in their their history of investment in both cloud and infrastructure software and and how do those investments? How would they performed? And how do they inform your current thesis? >>Yeah, absolutely. So being Capital was started in in the mid eighties, 1984 actually has a spin out of being a company consulting, and the basic premise was that if we're good at advising and supporting businesses, we should partner with them and invest behind them, and if they do well, we'll do well. And, as I said, focusing on these businesses but do something really valuable for their customers in a riel advantaged way, with some discontinuous growth opportunity that's led us to grow a lot. You know, we started out actually in the venture business and grew into the private equity business. But now we invest across all life stages of companies and all over the world. So we're $105 billion in assets that we managed across 10 lines of business on were truly global. So I think we have about 470 investment professionals and 210 of those at this point are located outside the U. S. One of the really interesting things for us in investing in technology broadly and in infrastructure in the cloud more specifically is that we're able to do that all over the world. And we're able to do that across all the different life stages of companies. We have a thriving venture capital business that really we've been in since the origins of being capital has invested across countless cloud and security and infrastructure businesses taken successful companies public like like solar wind sold companies to strategic and grown businesses. You know, in really thriving ways we have a, um, growth mid market growth technology business that we launched last year. Called their Technology Opportunities Fund. They've made a really interesting cloud based investment in a company called the Cloud Gurus Cloud Guru Excuse me? That trains the next generation of I t professionals to be successful in the club on then, of course, in our private equity business, you know where I spend my time. We are highly focused on technology sector and the the impacts of the cloud in that sector. Broadly, we've invested in many infrastructure businesses, scale businesses like BMC software and Rockets software security businesses like blue coat systems and semantic. And of course, for those big businesses they've got both on premises solutions. They've got cloud solutions, and often we're focused on helping them continue to grow and innovate and take their solutions to the cloud. And then, uh, that's taking us to our most recent investment in Nutanix that we're very excited about it. We think it's truly a growth business in a large market that has an opportunity to capitalize on these trends we're talking about. >>I wonder if you could comment on some of the changes that have occurred. You guys have been in the private equity business for a long time. And if you look at what you know, kind of the early days of private equity, it was all you know, even, uh, suck as much cash out of the company is possible. You know, whatever's left over will figure out what to do with it. It it seems like you know, investors have realized Wow, we can actually, if we put a little investment in and do some engineering and some go to market, we can actually get better multiples. And so you've got the kind of rule of 30 35 40 where he made a plus. Growth is kind of the metric. How do you think about that? And look at that evolution. >>Yeah, you know, it's interesting because in many ways, being capital was started as the antithesis to what to what you're describing. So we started again, as as with a strategic lens and a focus on growth and a focus on if we got the long term and the lasting impact of our business is right, that the returns would would follow. And you're right that the market has evolved in that way. I mean, I think some of the some of the dynamics that we've seen has been certainly growth of the private equity business. It's It's become a much larger piece of the, you know, the capital markets than it was certainly 10 years ago in 20 years ago. Also, with that growth comes the globalization, that business all over the world and the specialization. So you certainly see technology focused firms and technology focused funds in a way that you didn't see, uh, 10 years ago, or certainly 20 years ago actually being capital. Interestingly enough, we had a technology focused fund in 1989 called called Being Information Partners. So we've been focused on the sector for a very long time. But you certainly see ah, lot more technology investors, uh, than than you did you know 10 or 20 years ago? >>How are you thinking about valuations? Thes days? I mean, that is good. It's good to be in tech. It's even better to be in the cloud. You know, Service officer, software Cloud. You know if if if you're looking at, you know some of the companies, especially the work from home pivot. But a lot of that appears to be. You know, many people believe it's going to be permanent. How are you feeling about the both public market and private market valuations in that dynamic? >>Yeah, well, you know, it's it's amazing, right? I don't think any of us in March, when the covert crisis was just emerging, would have anticipated that that come November, the markets, and certainly the technology markets would be even more robust and stronger than than they were say in January February. But I think it's a testament to the resilience of the technology on that just how intricate and intertwined technology has become with our daily lives and and how much companies depend on its use. And frankly, it's been the cove environments that an accelerant for many of the ways in which we depend on technology. So witnessed this interview, of course, through through the through the cloud, and you're seeing the way that we operate our business day to day the way cos they're accessing their data and information. It's only further accelerated the need for technology and the importance of that technology to how how businesses operate. So I think you're seeing that reflected in the market values out there. But, you know, frost work. We're focused on businesses that still have that catalytic opportunity ahead that can more than compensate for for the price of entry. >>So let's talk about this massive investment. You guys made a Nutanix 750 million, I guess, is a small piece of your 105 billion, but still a massive investment. How did that opportunity come to you? What was your thinking? You know, behind that that investment and what are you looking for in terms of the go forward plan and growth plan for 2021 really importantly, beyond. >>Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're thrilled to be partnered with and invested in Nutanix. We think is a terrific company. And, you know, our most recent technology investment and private equity business. It really came about through a proactive efforts that we had in in the spring. Um, you know, we've got a team focused on the technology sector, focused across infrastructure and applications, and, uh, internet and digital media businesses and financial technology. And, uh, you know, through those efforts, we were looking for businesses. Um, that we felt had faced some dislocation and their market values associated with the Koven environment that we're facing but that we thought were really attractive. Business is well positioned, had leading solutions and had substantial and discontinuous growth opportunities. And as we looked through that effort, we really felt that Nutanix stood out just as a core leader and in fact, really the innovator and the inventor of the market in which it competes with a substantial market share in position solving a really important problem for its customers with a big growth opportunity ahead. But, um, the stock price had had come down because the business has been undergoing ah transition, and we didn't think that that was fully understood by by the market. And so way saw an opportunity Thio partner with Nutanix to invest money into the business to help to fund its transition and its growth. Yeah, and Thio to be partners along for all the value the business will will continue to create. We think it's a terrific company, and we're excited to be to be invested >>Well, you and I have talked about this that transition, you know, from a traditional, you know, license model to one That's Anania recurring revenue model, which many companies have gone through. You know, Adobe certainly has done it. Tableau successfully did it. Splunk is kind of in the middle of that transition right now and maybe not well understood. You've got companies like like Data Dog that and snowflake again to doing consumption based pricing. So there's a lot of confusion in the marketplace, and I wonder if you could talk about that transition and why it It was attractive to you to actually, you know, place that bet now? >>Yeah, absolutely. And as you say, a number of companies at this point have been through various forms of this shift, from from selling their technology upfront to selling it over time on, we find that the model of selling the technology over time eyes one that could be powerful. It could be aligning for customers as well as for, uh, vendor of the software solutions. And in Nutanix in particular again, we saw all the ingredients that we think make this an opportunity for for the business again, market leading technology that customers love. That is solving really important problem. The technology, because Nutanix had been grown and bootstrapped under the leadership of, uh, you know of zeros when it was built and founded, had been selling its software together with an appliance, you know, often in a, um, upfront sale Andi has been undergoing under their own initiative transition from selling that software with an appliance to a software based model to one that s'more rattle over time. And, you know, we thought that there was the opportunity to continue that to continue that transition and by doing that, to be able to offer mawr growth and mawr innovation that we could bring to our customers Thio continue to fund the shift. So something that frankly was well underway before we invested. Um, you know, as a za business makes this transition from collecting upfront Thio, you know, thio more evenly. Over time, you know, we saw a potentially use for our capital to help to fund that growth. And we're just focused on being a good partner toe help the company keep investing in abating, as as it contains to do that. >>I was talking to somebody other day, David. I told him I was interviewing you, and I was mentioning the Nutanix investment. I said, I'm definitely gonna cover that as part of this. You know, Cuban Cloud program. And they said Hit Nutanix. That's not cloud. I'm like, Wait a minute, What's cloud? So we heard Andy Jassy reinvent talking a lot about hybrid Antonio Neary, right after HP made its earnings last earnings announcement he came on on, said that well, we heard the big Cloud player talk about hybrid, and so the definition is changing. But so how are you looking at the market? Uh, certainly. There's this hyper converged infrastructure, but there's also this software play. There's this cloud play. Help us squint through how you see that >>absolutely so Nutanix, as you alluded to, pioneered the market for hyper converged infrastructure for bringing computing storage networking together. Uh, you know, often in private cloud environments in a way that was really powerful for for customers. Make, of course, continue to be the leaders in that marketplace. But they've continued to innovate and invest in ways that can solve problems for customers and related problems across the hybrid cloud. So combining both the public cloud with, you know, with that private cloud and across multiple public clouds with things like clusters and lots of innovation that business is doing in partnership with the likes of, um, Amazon and Microsoft and others. And so, yeah, we think that New Chance has a powerful role to play in that hyper cloud world in a multi cloud world. And we're excited toe back on them. >>Well, I think to what maybe people don't understand is that not only is Nutanix, you know, compatible with AWS and compatible with azure and G C. P. But it's actually kind of create a nabs traction layer across those those clouds. Now there's two sides of that debate. Some some will say, Well, that that that has Leighton see issues or yes, it reduces complexity. But at the same time, it doesn't give you that fine grained access. That's kind of the A W s narrative customers, you know, want simplicity. And we're seeing, you know, the uptake across clouds. I have a multipart question for you, Dave. So obviously being very strong and strategy I'm curious is toe how how much you get involved in the operational details. I mean, obviously 750 million u got a state there, but what are the 2 to 2 or three major strategic considerations for not just even just Nutanix but cloud and software infrastructure companies. And and how much focus do you put on the operational and one of the priorities There? >>Absolutely. Well, you know, we pride ourselves in being good partners to our businesses and in helping them to grow, not just with our capital, which I think is, of course, important, but also, you know, with our sweat equity and our and our human capital in our partnership that we could do that in lots of ways is fundamentally about, um, you know, supporting our businesses, however, is needed to help them thio grow. We've been investing in the technology sector, as I described for over over 30 years. And so we've built up a set of capabilities around things like helping toe partner with the sales force of our company is helping them toe, you know, think about the you know, the ways in which they they allocate their, uh their research and development and their in their innovation raised in which they, you know, continue Thio do acquisitions toe. You know, further that pipeline, we support our businesses in lots of ways, but you know we're not engineers were not. Developers, of course, were looking for businesses that are fundamentally great. They've got great technology. They solve problems for customers in a way, you know, that we could never replicate. That's what's the amazing but a business like Nutanix and just over a 10 year period of time, it literally has customer satisfaction levels that we haven't seen from any other. Infrastructures offer company that we've had the, you know, the pleasure of diligence ing over the last several years. So what we're focused on is how can we take those great products and offerings that Nutanix has and continue to support them through the further growth and expansion in areas like, um, you know, the further salesforce investment Thio expand into these new areas like clusters that we were talking about and thinking about, you know, things that they could do toe further expand the strategic hold. Um, And so, you know, we have, ah, large team of being capital. A zai mentioned 260 investment professionals in a private equity business alone. About a third of those are just available to our companies to help support them. Uh, you know, with various initiatives and efforts after after we invest. And we'll certainly, of course, make all of those available to new taxes. Well, somebody >>was asking me the other day, You know, what's hyper converged infrastructure? How did that come about? I was explaining what, Back in the day you had. You buy some servers and some storage and you have a network and you sort of have different teams and you put applicant, You figure out all out and put the applications on top, you know, test it, make sure it all works. And then and then the guys at V. C and VM Ware and Cisco and the M. C. They got together and said, Okay, we're gonna bolt together a bunch of different components and, you know, pre tested. Here you go. Here's a Here's a skew. And then what Nutanix did was actually really transformational and saying, Okay, look, we do this through software on DSO. And now that was what, Late, late two thousands. Now we're sort of entering this new era, this next generation of cloud cross clouds. So I wonder how you think about, you know, based on what you were just talking about the whole notion of M and A versus organic. There's a lot of organic development that needs to be done. But perhaps you could you could buy in or in organically through emanate toe, actually get there faster. How do you think about that balance? >>Look, I I think that that was an articulate, by the way explanation of I think that the origins of hyper converged infrastructure. So I enjoyed that very much. But, you know, I think that with any of our businesses and with Nutanix, we're of course, looking at where we trying to get to in several years and one of the best ways to support the business to get there, you know? Of course, they'll, um you know, primarily that will be through or continued organic investment in the company and all the innovation in the product. Um, that they've been doing will the company contemplate acquisitions toe further achieve the development goals and the objectives for solving pain points for customers to get, you know, to the strategic places they're trying to get to, of course. But you know, it all is a part of the package of of What's it a good fit company and its growth object. >>I mean, with the size of your portfolio, I mean your full stack investor, I would say, Is there any part of the so called tech stack that you won't touch that you would actually, you know, not not walk, but run away from, >>uh well, you know, I wouldn't say that we're running away from, you know, anything but the questions that we're asking ourselves. Our is the technology that we're investing in durable, ISAT advantaged and does have a growing role in the world. And, you know, if if we think that those things are true are absolutely, um, thrilled toe invest behind those things. You know, if if there are things that we feel like you, that's that's not the case, um, you know, then then we would tend toe to shy away from those investments. We've certainly found opportunities and businesses that people perceived as one. But you know, we believe to be another >>Well, so let me ask you specifically about about Nutanix. I mean, clearly, they achieved escape velocity. One of the few companies actually from last decade. It was Nutanix pure, not a whole lot of others. That actually, you know, were ableto maintain independence as a as a public company. What do you see is their durability. Uh, they're they're they're in their moat. If you if you will. >>Yeah, absolutely. Well, clearly, we think that it's a very durable and very advantage business. You know, that's that's the investment. Look, we think that Nutanix has been able to offer the best hyper converged infrastructure product on the market bar None. Um, one that has got the best ease of use Eyes is the most nimble and flexible for for customers. And you just see that, you know, recently and customer feedback And also that plays across very heterogeneous architectures in a way that, you know, it's really, really powerful because of that. You know, we think that their best position to be able to leverage that technology as they have been, uh, to continue to play across both public and private hybrid cloud environments. And so we're excited toe to back them and and that journey it really starts from solving and acute customer pain point, you know, better than anybody else can. And, you know, we're looking to to back them toe continue to expand that vision. >>Yeah, well, I've talked to a lot of Nutanix customers over the years, and that is the fundamental value. Proposition is it's really simple, very high, you know, customer satisfaction. So that makes a lot of sense. Well, Dave, thanks very much for coming on the Cube and participating in the Cuban cloud. Really? Appreciate your perspectives. Wish you best of luck. And hopefully we could do this again in the future. Maybe face to face >>now, face to face, maybe something even know. Dave, I really appreciate it's been a pleasure and good luck with with the rest of your interviews. >>All right. Thank you. We keep it right. Everybody from or Cuban Cloud, this is Dave Volonte. We'll be right back.

>>live from Miami, Florida It's the Q covering. IBM is data in a I forum brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back to the port of Miami, everybody. We're here at the Intercontinental Hotel. You're watching the Cube? The leader and I live tech covered set. Daubert is here. He's the vice president of data and I and a I and the chief data officer of cloud and cognitive software. And I'd be upset too. Good to see you again. >>Good. See, Dave, thanks for having me >>here. The data in a I form hashtag data. I I It's amazing here. 1700 people. Everybody's gonna hands on appetite for learning. Yeah. What do you see out in the marketplace? You know what's new since we last talked. >>Well, so I think if you look at some of the things that are really need in the marketplace, it's really been around filling the skill shortage. And how do you operationalize and and industrialize? You're a I. And so there's been a real need for things ways to get more productivity out of your data. Scientists not necessarily replace them. But how do you get more productivity? And we just released a few months ago, something called Auto A I, which really is, is probably the only tool out there that automates the end end pipeline automates 80% of the work on the Indian pipeline, but isn't a black box. It actually kicks out code. So your data scientists can then take it, optimize it further and understand it, and really feel more comfortable about it. >>He's got a eye for a eyes. That's >>exactly what is a eye for an eye. >>So how's that work? So you're applying machine intelligence Two data to make? Aye. Aye, more productive pick algorithms. Best fit. >>Yeah, So it does. Basically, you feed it your data and it identifies the features that are important. It does feature engineering for you. It does model selection for you. It does hyper parameter tuning and optimization, and it does deployment and also met monitors for bias. >>So what's the date of scientists do? >>Data scientist takes the code out the back end. And really, there's some tweaks that you know, the model, maybe the auto. Aye, aye. Maybe not. Get it perfect, Um, and really customize it for the business and the needs of the business. that the that the auto A I so they not understand >>the data scientist, then can can he or she can apply it in a way that is unique to their business that essentially becomes their I p. It's not like generic. Aye, aye for everybody. It's it's customized by And that's where data science to complain that I have the time to do this. Wrangling data >>exactly. And it was built in a combination from IBM Research since a great assets at IBM Research plus some cattle masters at work here at IBM that really designed and optimize the algorithm selection and things like that. And then at the keynote today, uh, wonderment Thompson was up there talking, and this is probably one of the most impactful use cases of auto. Aye, aye to date. And it was also, you know, my former team, the data science elite team, was engaged, but wonderment Thompson had this problem where they had, like, 17,000 features in their data sets, and what they wanted to do was they wanted to be able to have a custom solution for their customers. And so every time they get a customer that have to have a data scientist that would sit down and figure out what the right features and how the engineer for this customer. It was an intractable problem for them. You know, the person from wonderment Thompson have prevented presented today said he's been trying to solve this problem for eight years. Auto Way I, plus the data science elite team solve the form in two months, and after that two months, it went right into production. So in this case, oughta way. I isn't doing the whole pipeline. It's helping them identify the features and engineering the features that are important and giving them a head start on the model. >>What's the, uh, what's the acquisition bottle for all the way as a It's a license software product. Is it assassin part >>of Cloudpack for data, and it's available on IBM Cloud. So it's on IBM Cloud. You can use it paper use so you get a license as part of watching studio on IBM Cloud. If you invest in Cloudpack for data, it could be a perpetual license or committed term license, which essentially assassin, >>it's essentially a feature at dawn of Cloudpack for data. >>It's part of Cloudpack per day and you're >>saying it can be usage based. So that's key. >>Consumption based hot pack for data is all consumption based, >>so people want to use a eye for competitive advantage. I said by my open that you know, we're not marching to the cadence of Moore's Law in this industry anymore. It's a combination of data and then cloud for scale. So so people want competitive advantage. You've talked about some things that folks are doing to gain that competitive advantage. But the same time we heard from Rob Thomas that only about 4 to 10% penetration for a I. What? What are the key blockers that you see and how you're knocking them >>down? Well, I think there's. There's a number of key blockers, so one is of access to data, right? Cos have tons of data, but being able to even know what data is, they're being able to pull it all together and being able to do it in a way that is compliant with regulation because you got you can't do a I in a vacuum. You have to do it in the context of ever increasing regulation like GDP R and C, C, P A and all these other regulator privacy regulations that are popping up. So so that's that's really too so access to data and regulation can be blockers. The 2nd 1 or the 3rd 1 is really access to appropriate skills, which we talked a little bit about. Andi, how do you retrain, or how do you up skill, the talent you have? And then how do you actually bring in new talent that can execute what you want on then? Sometimes in some cos it's a lack of strategy with appropriate measurement, right? So what is your A II strategy, and how are you gonna measure success? And you and I have talked about this on Cuban on Cube before, where it's gotta measure your success in dollars and cents right cost savings, net new revenue. That's really all your CFO is care about. That's how you have to be able to measure and monitor your success. >>Yes. Oh, it's so that's that Last one is probably were where most organizations start. Let's prioritize the use cases of the give us the best bang for the buck, and then business guys probably get really excited and say Okay, let's go. But to up to truly operationalize that you gotta worry about these other things. You know, the compliance issues and you gotta have the skill sets. Yeah, it's a scale. >>And sometimes that's actually the first thing you said is sometimes a mistake. So focusing on the one that's got the most bang for the buck is not necessarily the best place to start for a couple of reasons. So one is you may not have the right data. It may not be available. It may not be governed properly. Number one, number two the business that you're building it for, may not be ready to consume it right. They may not be either bought in or the processes need to change so much or something like that, that it's not gonna get used. And you can build the best a I in the world. If it doesn't get used, it creates zero value, right? And so you really want to focus on for the first couple of projects? What are the one that we can deliver the best value, not Sarah, the most value, but the best value in the shortest amount of time and ensure that it gets into production because especially when you're starting off, if you don't show adoption, people are gonna lose interest. >>What are you >>seeing in terms of experimentation now in the customer base? You know, when you talk to buyers and you talk about, you know, you look at the I T. Spending service. People are concerned about tariffs. The trade will hurt the 2020 election. They're being a little bit cautious. But in the last two or three years have been a lot of experimentation going on. And a big part of that is a I and machine learning. What are you seeing in terms of that experimentation turning into actually production project that we can learn from and maybe do some new experiments? >>Yeah, and I think it depends on how you're doing the experiments. There's, I think there's kind of academic experimentation where you have data science, Sistine Data science teams that come work on cool stuff that may or may not have business value and may or may not be implemented right. They just kind of latch on. The business isn't really involved. They latch on, they do projects, and that's I think that's actually bad experimentation if you let it that run your program. The good experimentation is when you start identity having a strategy. You identify the use cases you want to go after and you experiment by leveraging, agile to deliver these methodologies. You deliver value in two weeks prints, and you can start delivering value quickly. You know, in the case of wonderment, Thompson again 88 weeks, four sprints. They got value. That was an experiment, right? That was an experiment because it was done. Agile methodologies using good coding practices using good, you know, kind of design up front practices. They were able to take that and put it right into production. If you're doing experimentation, you have to rewrite your code at the end. And it's a waste of time >>T to your earlier point. The moon shots are oftentimes could be too risky. And if you blow it on a moon shot, it could set you back years. So you got to be careful. Pick your spots, picked ones that maybe representative, but our lower maybe, maybe lower risk. Apply agile methodologies, get a quick return, learn, develop those skills, and then then build up to the moon ship >>or you break that moon shot down its consumable pieces. Right, Because the moon shot may take you two years to get to. But maybe there are sub components of that moon shot that you could deliver in 34 months and you start delivering knows, and you work up to the moon shot. >>I always like to ask the dog food in people. And I said, like that. Call it sipping your own champagne. What do you guys done internally? When we first met, it was and I think, a snowy day in Boston, right at the spark. Some it years ago. And you did a big career switch, and it's obviously working out for you, But But what are some of the things? And you were in part, brought in to help IBM internally as well as Interpol Help IBM really become data driven internally? Yeah. How has that gone? What have you learned? And how are you taking that to customers? >>Yeah, so I was hired three years ago now believe it was that long toe lead. Our internal transformation over the last couple of years, I got I don't want to say distracted there were really important business things I need to focus on, like gpr and helping our customers get up and running with with data science, and I build a data science elite team. So as of a couple months ago, I'm back, you know, almost entirely focused on her internal transformation. And, you know, it's really about making sure that we use data and a I to make appropriate decisions on DSO. Now we have. You know, we have an app on her phone that leverages Cognos analytics, where at any point, Ginny Rometty or Rob Thomas or Arvin Krishna can pull up and look in what we call E P M. Which is enterprise performance management and understand where the business is, right? What what do we do in third quarter, which just wrapped up what was what's the pipeline for fourth quarter? And it's at your fingertips. We're working on revamping our planning cycle. So today planning has been done in Excel. We're leveraging Planning Analytics, which is a great planning and scenario planning tool that with the tip of a button, really let a click of a button really let you understand how your business can perform in the future and what things need to do to get it perform. We're also looking across all of cloud and cognitive software, which data and A I sits in and within each business unit and cloud and cognitive software. The sales teams do a great job of cross sell upsell. But there's a huge opportunity of how do we cross sell up sell across the five different businesses that live inside of cloud and cognitive software. So did an aye aye hybrid cloud integration, IBM Cloud cognitive Applications and IBM Security. There's a lot of potential interplay that our customers do across there and providing a I that helps the sales people understand when they can create more value. Excuse me for our customers. >>It's interesting. This is the 10th year of doing the Cube, and when we first started, it was sort of the beginning of the the big data craze, and a lot of people said, Oh, okay, here's the disruption, crossing the chasm. Innovator's dilemma. All that old stuff going away, all the new stuff coming in. But you mentioned Cognos on mobile, and that's this is the thing we learned is that the key ingredients to data strategies. Comprised the existing systems. Yes. Throw those out. Those of the systems of record that were the single version of the truth, if you will, that people trusted you, go back to trust and all this other stuff built up around it. Which kind of created dissidents. Yeah. And so it sounds like one of the initiatives that you you're an IBM I've been working on is really bringing in the new pieces, modernizing sort of the existing so that you've got sort of consistent data sets that people could work. And one of the >>capabilities that really has enabled this transformation in the last six months for us internally and for our clients inside a cloud pack for data, we have this capability called IBM data virtualization, which we have all these independent sources of truth to stomach, you know? And then we have all these other data sources that may or may not be as trusted, but to be able to bring them together literally. With the click of a button, you drop your data sources in the Aye. Aye, within data. Virtualization actually identifies keys across the different things so you can link your data. You look at it, you check it, and it really enables you to do this at scale. And all you need to do is say, pointed out the data. Here's the I. P. Address of where the data lives, and it will bring that in and help you connect it. >>So you mentioned variances in data quality and consumer of the data has to have trust in that data. Can you use machine intelligence and a I to sort of give you a data confidence meter, if you will. Yeah. So there's two things >>that we use for data confidence. I call it dodging this factor, right. Understanding what the dodging this factor is of the data. So we definitely leverage. Aye. Aye. So a I If you have a date, a dictionary and you have metadata, the I can understand eight equality. And it can also look at what your data stewards do, and it can do some of the remediation of the data quality issues. But we all in Watson Knowledge catalog, which again is an in cloudpack for data. We also have the ability to vote up and vote down data. So as much as the team is using data internally. If there's a data set that had a you know, we had a hive data quality score, but it wasn't really valuable. It'll get voted down, and it will help. When you search for data in the system, it will sort it kind of like you do a search on the Internet and it'll it'll down rank that one, depending on how many down votes they got. >>So it's a wisdom of the crowd type of. >>It's a crowd sourcing combined with the I >>as that, in your experience at all, changed the dynamics of politics within organizations. In other words, I'm sure we've all been a lot of meetings where somebody puts foursome data. And if the most senior person in the room doesn't like the data, it doesn't like the implication he or she will attack the data source, and then the meeting's over and it might not necessarily be the best decision for the organization. So So I think it's maybe >>not the up, voting down voting that does that, but it's things like the E PM tool that I said we have here. You know there is a single source of truth for our finance data. It's on everyone's phone. Who needs access to it? Right? When you have a conversation about how the company or the division or the business unit is performing financially, it comes from E. P M. Whether it's in the Cognos app or whether it's in a dashboard, a separate dashboard and Cognos or is being fed into an aye aye, that we're building. This is the source of truth. Similarly, for product data, our individual products before me it comes from here's so the conversation at the senior senior meetings are no longer your data is different from my data. I don't believe it. You've eliminated that conversation. This is the data. This is the only data. Now you can have a conversation about what's really important >>in adult conversation. Okay, Now what are we going to do? It? It's >>not a bickering about my data versus your data. >>So what's next for you on? You know, you're you've been pulled in a lot of different places again. You started at IBM as an internal transformation change agent. You got pulled into a lot of customer situations because yeah, you know, you're doing so. Sales guys want to drag you along and help facilitate activity with clients. What's new? What's what's next for you. >>So really, you know, I've only been refocused on the internal transformation for a couple months now. So really extending IBM struck our cloud and cognitive software a data and a I strategy and starting to quickly implement some of these products, just like project. So, like, just like I just said, you know, we're starting project without even knowing what the prioritized list is. Intuitively, this one's important. The team's going to start working on it, and one of them is an aye aye project, which is around cross sell upsell that I mentioned across the portfolio and the other one we just got done talking about how in the senior leadership meeting for Claude Incognito software, how do we all work from a Cognos dashboard instead of Excel data data that's been exported put into Excel? The challenge with that is not that people don't trust the data. It's that if there's a question you can't drill down. So if there's a question about an Excel document or a power point that's up there, you will get back next meeting in a month or in two weeks, we'll have an e mail conversation about it. If it's presented in a really live dashboard, you can drill down and you can actually answer questions in real time. The value of that is immense, because now you as a leadership team, you can make a decision at that point and decide what direction you're going to do. Based on data, >>I said last time I have one more questions. You're CDO but you're a polymath on. So my question is, what should people look for in a chief data officer? What sort of the characteristics in the attributes, given your >>experience, that's kind of a loaded question, because there is. There is no good job, single job description for a chief date officer. I think there's a good solid set of skill sets, the fine for a cheap date officer and actually, as part of the chief data officer summits that you you know, you guys attend. We had were having sessions with the chief date officers, kind of defining a curriculum for cheap date officers with our clients so that we can help build the chief. That officer in the future. But if you look a quality so cheap, date officer is also a chief disruption officer. So it needs to be someone who is really good at and really good at driving change and really good at disrupting processes and getting people excited about it changes hard. People don't like change. How do you do? You need someone who can get people excited about change. So that's one thing. On depending on what industry you're in, it's got to be. It could be if you're in financial or heavy regulated industry, you want someone that understands governance. And that's kind of what Gardner and other analysts call a defensive CDO very governance Focus. And then you also have some CDOs, which I I fit into this bucket, which is, um, or offensive CDO, which is how do you create value from data? How do you caught save money? How do you create net new revenue? How do you create new business models, leveraging data and a I? And now there's kind of 1/3 type of CDO emerging, which is CDO not as a cost center but a studio as a p N l. How do you generate revenue for the business directly from your CDO office. >>I like that framework, right? >>I can't take credit for it. That's Gartner. >>Its governance, they call it. We say he called defensive and offensive. And then first time I met Interpol. He said, Look, you start with how does data affect the monetization of my organization? And that means making money or saving money. Seth, thanks so much for coming on. The Cube is great to see you >>again. Thanks for having me >>again. All right, Keep it right to everybody. We'll be back at the IBM data in a I form from Miami. You're watching the Cube?

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back and run cubes. Live coverage of A W S Amazon Webster's reinforced their inaugural conference around security here in Boston. Messages. I'm John for a day. Volante Day we've been talking about Blockchain has been part of security, but no mention of it here. Amazon announced a Blockchain intention, but was more of a service model. Less of a pure play infrastructure or kind of a new game changes. So we thought we would get our friends to come on, the Cuban tell. Tell us about it. Val Birch, Avicii CEO and founder. A pencil day that Cube alumni formerly of NetApp, among other great companies, and Ed You, founder and CEO of Strong Salt. Welcome to the Q. Tell us why aren't we taught him a Blockchain at a security conference on cloud computing, where they always resource is different. Paradigm is decentralized. What's your take? >> So maybe having been in this world for about 18 24 months now, Enterprise lodging reinvents about six months ago and jazz he mentioned that he finally understood US enterprise an opportunity, and it was the integrity value, finest complex, even announced a specific product announced database available, >> maybe bythe on cryptographic verifiability of transactions minus the complexity of smart contract wallets. Wait, you party with Amazon way too. Versions right? One for distributed use cases. When I call, everyone rises. Never like you need to know what >> the Amazon wants to be that hard on top like complexity. But the reality is, they're they're They're world is targeting a new generation star 14 show is the new generation of developing >> a >> new generation of David. They were. Some of those are in trouble, and I'm hard core on this because it's just so obvious. >> I just can't get him behind myself if you don't >> see this out quicker. The new developers are younger and older systems people. There's a range of ages doing it. They're they're seeing the agility, and it's a cultural shift, not just the age thing. Head this. They're not here right now. This is the missing picture of this show, and my criticism of reinforces big, gaping hole around crypto and blocks, >> and I actually know that people I don't see anything here because it is difficult to currency. >> Blocking is very important that people understand way. Launch strong allows you to see the launching. I don't think that works. Basically, Just like Well, well said everything you do, you always have a single source. I think that's something that people doing this thing here. You want to get your thoughts on this because you made a comment >> about security native being the team here and security native implying that Dev ops what they did for configuration hardening the infrastructures code. You have to consider this token economic business model side of it with the apple cases, a decision application is still an application. Okay. Blockchain is still in infrastructure dynamic their software involved. I mean, we're talking about the same thing is they're lost in translation. In your opinion? >> Well, yeah, I think that you know, to your point, Val, if you can abstract that complexity away, But the fundamentals of of cryptography and software engineering and game theory coming together is what always has fascinated me about this space. And so you're right. I think certainly enterprise customers don't wanna you know, they hear crypto, though no, although it's interesting it was just a conference IBM yesterday. They talk a lot about Blockchain. Don't talk about crypto to me. They go together. Of course, IBM. They don't like to talk a lot about job loss and automation, but But the reality is it's there and it's it's it's has a lot of momentum, which is why you started the company. >> Yeah, we're actually seeing it all over right now. And again, our thing is around reducing, If not eliminating the friction towards adopting Blockchain so less is more. In our case, we're explicitly choosing not to do crypto wallets or currency transactions. It's that Andy Jassy observation the integrity value, the core integrity, value for financial reconciliation, for detecting supply chain counterfeiting for tracking assets and inventory across to your distribution. Unifying multiple source systems of record into a shared state. Those are the kinds of applications received >> culture, and there's so many different use cases, obviously, so >> an Amazon likes to use that word. Words raised the bar, which is more functionality, but on the other, phrases undifferentiated, heavy lifting. There's a lot of details involved in some of those complexity exactly what you're talking about that can be automated away. That's goodness. But you still have a security problem of mutability, which is a beautiful thing with Blockchain. >> Actually, a lot of times people actually forgot to mention one thing that blotchy and all you do that's actually different before was Actually privacy is actually not just security is also privacy, which actually is getting bigger and bigger. As we know, it's something that people feel very strongly about because it's something they feel personal about. And that's something that, in fact, took economics encourages a lot of things that enables privacy that was not able to do before. >> Well, look at Facebook. What do you think about >> face? I'm wonder that you know, I'm a public face book critic. I think they've been atrocious job on the privacy front so far in protecting our data. On the other hand, if you know it's kind of like the mullahs report, if you actually read Facebook's white paper, it's a it's not a launch. It's an announcement. That's a technical announcement. It's so well written, designed so far, and it's Facebook doesn't completely control it. They do have a vision for program ability. They're evolving it from being a permissions toe, ultimately a permission less system. So on paper, I like what I read. And I think it will start to, you know, popularizing democratize the notion of crypto amongst the broader population. I'm going to take a much more weight see approach. Just you know, >> I always love Facebook. I think the den atrocious job. But I'm addicted. I have all my stuff on there, um, centralized. They're bringing up, they bring in an education. Bitcoin is up for a reason. They're bringing the masses. They're showing that this is real market. This is kind of like when the web was still viewed as Kitty Playground for technologists say, Oh, well, it's so slow. And that was for dummies. And you had the Web World Wide Web. So when that hit, that same arguments went down right this minute, crypto things for years. But with Facebook coming, it really legitimizes that well, you bring 2,000,000,000 people to the party. Exactly a lot of good. Now the critics of Facebook is copied pass craft kind of model and there's no way they're gonna get it through because the world's not gonna let Facebook running run commerce and currents. It's like it's like and they don't do it well anyway. So I think it's gonna be a game changing market making move. I think they'll have a play in there, but I don't think that's not gonna have a global force. Says a >> lot that you get 100 companies to put up 10 >> 1,000,000 Starship is already the first accomplice. >> They don't need any more money. We have my dear to us, but >> still the power but the power of that ecosystem to me. I was a big fan of this because I think it gives credibility. So many companies get get interested in it, and I'm not sure exactly what's gonna come out of it. It's interesting that, you know, Bitcoins up. They said, Oh, cell, you're becoming like No, no, no, this is This is a very mature >> Well, I I think open is gonna always win. If you look at you know, the Web's kind of one example of kind of maturity argument. I think the rial analog for me, at least my generation value probably relate to this. David, you as well, you know, I've been born yet you are But, you know, T c p I p came after S n a which IBM on the deck net was the largest network at that time to >> not serious. Says >> mammal. Novell was land all three proprietary network operating systems. So proprietary Narcisse decimated by T c p i p. So to me, I think even their Facebook does go in there. They will recognize that unless they stay open, I think open will always win. I think I think this is the beginning of the death of the closed platform. >> Yeah, they're forced her. I think they have to open it up because if you didn't open up, people won't trust them, and people will use them. And if a Blockchain if you don't have a community behind it, there will be nothing. >> Well, so the thing about the crypto spraying everywhere with crypto winter, But but to your point d c p i p h t t p d >> N s SMTP >> Those were government funded or academic funded protocols. People stop spending money on him, and then the big Internet companies just co opted. No, no, that's what G mails built on. >> Well, I've always said >> so But when you finish the thought, is all this crypto money that came in drove innovation? Yeah, So you're seeing, you know, this new Internet emerge, and I think it's it's really think people, you know, sort of overlooked a lot of the innovation that's >> coming. I have always said, Dave, that Facebook is what the Web would look like if Tim Berners Lee took venture financing. Okay, because what they had at the time was a browser and the way that stand up websites for self service information. They kept it open and it drives. Facebook became basically the Web's version of a, well, lengthen does the same Twitter has opened. They have no developer community. So yeah, I think it is the only company in my opinion, actually does a good job opening up their data. Now they charge you for that. It brings up way still haven't encrypt those. The only community that's entire ethos is based on openness and community you mentioned. And that is a key word >> in traditional media. Of course, focus on the bad stuff that happens, but you know those of us in the business who will pay attention to it, see There's a lot of goodness to is a lot of mission driven, a lot of openness, and it's a model for innovation. What do you guys think about the narrative now to break up big tech? You know you're hearing Facebook, Amazon, Google coming under fire. What are your thoughts on that? >> So I wrote a block, maybe was ahead of its time about 18 months ago. Is coincided with Ginny Rometty, a Davos and 2018 2019 talking about data responsibility. Reason we're having this conversation is at the tech industry. By and large and especially the fang stocks or whatever we're calling them now have been irresponsible with our data. The backlash is palpable in Europe. It's law in Europe. Backlash we knew was going to start at the state level here. There's already ahead of my personal schedule. Federal discussions, FTC DOJ is in a couple weeks ago, so it's inevitable that this sort of tech reckoning is coming in. Maur responsibility is gonna have to be demonstrated by all the custodians of our data, and that's why we're positioning. Check it as a chain of custody is a service to demonstrate to the regulators your customers, your partners, suppliers, you know, transparency, irrefutable transparency, using Blockchain for how you're handling data. You know, if you don't have that, transparency can prove it. Or back to the same old discussions were back Thio Uninformed old legislators making you know Internet, his tubes type regulations. So here, here >> and DOJ, you could argue that they may be too slow to respond to Microsoft back in the nineties. I'm not sure breaking up big tech is the right thing, because I think it's almost like a t. The little Tex will become big checks again, but they should not be breaking the law. >> I think there's a reason why is there's actually a limitation off. What is possible in technology because they understand and also Facebook understands well, is that it's actually very, very hard to have data that's owned by your customers. But you are the one who's keeping track over everything, and you are the one using the data right. It's like a no win, because if you think about encryption cryptography, yes, you can make the data encrypted. That way, the customer has the key. They control it, but then Facebook can offer the service is. So now you have a Congress thinking, Well, if there's no technological way of doing this, what can you do in a legal perspective on a, you know, on the law perspective, toddy make it so that the customer actually owned the data. We actually think that is a perfect reason why you have to actually fix the book. Actually, technical should be built on our platform because we actually allow them to have a day that's encrypted and stupid able to operations holiday tha if the customer give them the permission to do so. And I think that's the perfect word way to go forward. And I think Blockchain is the fundamental thing that brings everybody together, you know, way that actually benefits everyone knows >> and take him into explain strong salt your project. What's it about? What's the mission? Where you >> so so we see strong saw as actually privacy. First, we literally are beauty, a platform where developers including Facebook linked and salesforce can't you build on top of platform, right? So what happens when you do this is that they actually give the data governess to the customers, customers Mashona data. But because our cryptography they actually can offer service is to the customers. When a customer allowed them to do so, for example, we have something. All search of encryption allows you to encrypt the data and still give the search. Aubrey on the data without decrypting the data. First, by giving the power to developers and also the community there, you can have our abstract you currently use. But they're not hard to use that frictionless and still offer the same service that Frank Facebook or sell stolen offer the favor. >> You could do some discovery on it. >> You can't do things >> some program ability around >> exactly, even though the data is encrypted. But custom owns the day. So the customer has to give them permission to do so Right this way. Actually, in fact, launched the first app that I told you it's called strong vote. You can Donald ios or Andrew it And you can't you see the Blockchain play little You can see the rocking your fingerprint. I think a fingertip to see what happens to a data. You see everything that happens when Sheriff I or you open a fire or something, I guess. >> Congratulations, Val. Give a quick plug for your project chain kid into the new branding. They're like it. Pencil data. Where are you on your project? >> So after nine months of hard selling, we're finding out what customers actually paying for right now. In our case, it's hardening their APS, their data and their logs and wrapping the chain of custody around those things. And the use case of the security conference like this is actually quite existential When you think about it, One of the things that the industry doesn't talk enough about is that every attack we read about in the headlines was three privilege escalation. So the attackers somehow hacked. Your Web server managed to get administrative credentials and network or domain administrative credentials. And here's what professional attackers do once they have godlike authority on your network. They identify all the installed security solutions, and they make themselves invisible because they can. After that, they operate with impunity. Our technology, the security use case that we're seeing a lot of traction is, is we can detect that we're applying Blockchain. We're agnostic, so bring your own Blockchain in our case. But we're able >> chain kit a product. Is it a development environment >> globally. Available service Jose on AWS rest ful AP eyes and fundamentally were enabling developers to harden their app stuff to wrap a chain of custody around key data or logs in their laps so that when the attacker's attempt a leverage at administrative authority and tamper with locks tamper >> with service, not a software, >> it's a apply. It's a developer oriented service, but >> this is one of the biggest problems and challenges security today. You see the stat after you get infiltrated. It takes 250 or 300 days to even detect, and I have not heard that number shrink. I've heard people aspire number streaking this. >> We can get it down to realize a crime tip of the spear. That's what we're excited to be here. We're excited to talk about One of the dirty secrets of the security industry is that it shouldn't take a year to detect in advance attack. >> Guys, Thanks for coming on. Cuban sharing your insight. Concussions in your head. Well, great to see you. >> Likewise. And thank you, j for having us on here, and we're looking forward to coming back and weigh. Appreciate. Absolutely >> thankful. Spj Thanks for you. >> It was always paying it forward. Of course, really the most important conversation, that security is gonna be a Blockchain type of implementation. This is a reality that's coming very soon, but we're here. They do is reinforce. I'm talking about the first conference with Amazon Web sources dedicated to sightsee. So's Cee Io's around security jumper. Develop the stables for more coverage. After this short break, >> my name is David.

>> live from San Francisco, California. It's the key. You covering the IBM chief Data officer? Someone brought to you by IBM. >> We're back at the IBM CDO conference. Fisherman's Worf Worf in San Francisco. You're watching the Cube, the leader in life tech coverage. My name is David Dante. Glenn Finches. Here's the global leader of Big Data Analytics and IBM, and we're pleased to have Mark Clare. He's the head of data enablement at AstraZeneca. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming on my mark. I'm gonna start with this head of data Data Enablement. That's a title that I've never heard before. And I've heard many thousands of titles in the Cube. What is that all about? >> Well, I think it's the credit goes to some of the executives at AstraZeneca when they recruited me. I've been a cheap date officer. Several the major financial institutions, both in the U. S. And in Europe. Um, AstraZeneca wanted to focus on how we actually enable our business is our science areas in our business is so it's not unlike a traditional CDO role, but we focus a lot more on what the enabling functions or processes would be >> So it sounds like driving business value is really the me and then throw. Sorry. >> I've always looked at this role in three functions value, risk and cost. So I think that in any CDO role, you have to look at all three. I think the you'd slide it if you didn't. This one with the title. Obviously, we're looking at quite a bit at the value we will drive across the the firm on how to leverage our date in a different way. >> I love that because you can quantify all three. All right, Glenn. So you're the host of this event. So awesome. I love that little presentation that you gave. So for those you didn't see it, you gave us pay stubs and then you gave us a website and said, Take a picture of the paste up, uploaded, and then you showed how you're working with your clients. Toe. Actually digitize that and compress all kinds of things. Time to mortgage origination. Time to decision. So explain that a little bit. And what's that? What's the tech behind that? And how are people using it? You know, >> for three decades, we've had this OCR technology where you take a piece of paper, you tell the machine what's on the paper. What longitudinal Enter the coordinates are and you feed it into the hope and pray to God that it isn't in there wrong. The form didn't change anything like that. That's what that's way. We've lived for three decades with cognitive and a I, but I read things like the human eye reads things. And so you put the page in and the machine comes back and says, Hey, is this invoice number? Hey, is this so security number? That's how you train it as compared to saying, Here's what it So we use this cognitive digitization capability to grab data that's locked in documents, and then you bring it back to the process so that you can digitally re imagine the process. Now there's been a lot of use of robotics and things like that. I'm kind of taken existing processes, and I'm making them incrementally. Better write This says look, you now have the data of the process. You can re imagine it. However, in fact, the CEO of our client ADP said, Look, I want you to make me a Netflix, not a blood Urbach Blockbuster, right? So So it's a mind shift right to say we'll use this data will read it with a I will digitally re imagine the process. And it usually cuts like 70 or 80% of the cycle time, 50 to 75% of the cost. I mean, it's it's pretty groundbreaking when you see it. >> So markets ahead of data neighborhood. You hear something like that and you're not. You're not myopically focused on one little use case. You're taking a big picture of you doing strategies and trying to develop a broader business cases for the organization. But when you see an example like that and many examples out there, I'm sure the light bulbs go off. So >> I wrote probably 10 years cases down while >> Glenn was talking about you. You do get tactical, Okay, but but But where do you start when you're trying to solve these problems? >> Well, I look att, Glenn's example, And about five and 1/2 years ago, Glenn was one I went to had gone to a global financial service, firms on obviously having scale across dozens of countries, and I had one simple request. Thio Glenn's team as well as a number of other technology companies. I want cognitive intelligence for on data in Just because the process is we've had done for 20 years just wouldn't scale not not its speed across many different languages and cultures. And I now look five and 1/2 years later, and we have beginning of, I would say technology opportunities. When I asked Glenn that question, he was probably the only one that didn't think I had horns coming out of my head, that I was crazy. I mean, some of the leading technology firms thought I was crazy asking for cognitive data management capabilities, and we are five and 1/2 years later and we're seeing a I applied not just on the front end of analytics, but back in the back end of the data management processes themselves started automate. So So I look, you know, there's a concept now coming out day tops on date offices. You think of what Dev Ops is. It's bringing within our data management processes. It's bringing cognitive capabilities to every process step, And what level of automation can we do? Because the, you know, for typical data science experiment 80 to 90% of that work Estate engineering. If I can automate that, then through a date office process, then I could get to incite much faster, but not in scale it and scale a lot more opportunities and have to manually do it. So I I look at presentations and I think, you know, in every aspect of our business, where we clear could we apply >> what you talk about date engineering? You talk about data scientist spending his or her time just cleaning the wrangling data, All the all the not fun stuff exactly plugging in cables back in the infrastructure date. >> You're seeing horror stories right now. I heard from a major academic institution. A client came to them and their data scientists. They had spent several years building. We're spending 99% of their time trying to cleanse and prep data. They were spend 90% cleansing and prepping, and of the remaining 10% 90% of that fixing it where they fix it wrong and the first time so they had 1% of their job doing their job. So this is a huge opportunity. You can start automating more of that and actually refocusing data science on data >> science. So you've been a chief data officer number of financial institutions. You've got this kind of cool title now, which touches on some of the things a CDO might do and your technical. We got a technical background. So when you look a lot of the what Ginny Rometty calls incumbents, call them incumbent Disruptors two years ago at Ivy and think they've got data that has been hardened, you know, in all these projects and use cases and it's locked and people talk about the silos, part of your role is to figure out Okay, how do we get that data out? Leverage. It put it at the core. Is that is that fair? >> Well, and I'm gonna stay away from the word core cause to make core Kenan for kind of legacy processes of building a single repositories single warehouse, which is very time consuming. So I think I can I leave it where it is, but find a wayto to unify it. >> Not physically, exactly what I say. Corny, but actually the court, that's what we need >> to think about is how to do this logically and cream or of Ah unification approach that has speed and agility with it versus the old physical approaches, which took time. And resource is >> so That's a that's a computer science problem that people have been trying to solve for years. Decentralized, distributed, dark detectors, right? And why is it that we're now able Thio Tap your I think it's >> a perfect storm of a I of Cloud, the cloud native of Io ti, because when you think of I o. T, it's a I ot to be successful fabric that can connect millions of devices or millions of sensors. So you'd be paired those three with the investment big data brought in the last seven or eight years and big data to me. Initially, when I started talking to companies in the Valley 10 years ago, the early days of, um, apparatus, what I saw or companies and I could get almost any of the digital companies in the valley they were not. They were using technology to be more agile. They were finding agile data science. Before we call the data signs the map produce and Hadoop, we're just and after almost not an afterthought. But it was just a mechanism to facilitate agility and speed. And so if you look at how we built out all the way up today and all the convergence of all these new technologies, it's a perfect storm to actually innovate differently. >> Well, what was profound about my producing in the dupe? It was like leave the data where it is and shipped five megabytes a code two upended by the data and that you bring up a good point. We've now, we spent 10 years leveraging that at a much lower cost. And you've got the cloud now for scale. And now machine intelligence comes in that you can apply in the data causes. Bob Pityana once told me, Data's plentiful insights aren't Amen to that. So Okay, so this is really interesting discussion. You guys have known each other for a couple of couple of decades. How do you work together toe to solve problems Where what is that conversation like, Do >> you want to start that? >> So, um, first of all, we've never worked together on solving small problems, not commodity problems. We would usually tackle something that someone would say would not be possible. So normally Mark is a change agent wherever he goes. And so he usually goes to a place that wants to fix something or change something in an abnormally short amount of time for an abnormally small amount of money. Right? So what's strange is that we always find that space together. Mark is very judicious about using us as a service is firm toe help accelerate those things. But then also, we build in a plan to transition us away in transition, in him into full ownership. Right. But we usually work together to jump start one of these wicked, hard, wicked, cool things that nobody else >> was. People hate you. At first. They love you. I would end the one >> institution and on I said, OK, we're going to a four step plan. I'm gonna bring the consultants in day one while we find Thailand internally and recruit talent External. That's kind of phases one and two in parallel. And then we're gonna train our talent as we find them, and and Glenn's team will knowledge transfer, and by face for where, Rayna. And you know, that's a model I've done successfully in several organizations. People can. I hated it first because they're not doing it themselves, but they may not have the experience and the skills, and I think as soon as you show your staff you're willing to invest in them and give them the time and exposure. The conversation changes, but it's always a little awkward. At first, I've run heavy attrition, and some organizations at first build the organizations. But the one instance that Glen was referring to, we came in there and they had a 4 1 1 2 1 12 to 15 year plan and the C I O. Looked at me, he says. I'll give you two years. I'm a bad negotiator. I got three years out of it and I got a business case approved by the CEO a week later. It was a significant size business case in five minutes. I didn't have to go back a second or third time, but we said We're gonna do it in three years. Here's how we're gonna scale an organization. We scaled more than 1000 person organization in three years of talent, but we did it in a planned way and in that particular organization, probably a year and 1/2 in, I had a global map of every data and analytics role I need and I could tell you were in the US they set and with what competitors earning what industry and where in India they set and in what industry And when we needed them. We went out and recruited, but it's time to build that. But you know, in any really period, I've worked because I've done this 20 plus years. The talent changes. The location changes someone, but it's always been a challenge to find him. >> I guess it's good to have a deadline. I guess you did not take the chief data officer role in your current position. Explain that. What's what. What's your point of view on on that role and how it's evolved and how it's maybe being used in ways that don't I >> mean, I think that a CDO, um on during the early days, there wasn't a definition of a matter of fact. Every time I get a recruiter, call me all. We have a great CDO row for first time I first thing I asked him, How would you define what you mean by CDO? Because I've never seen it defined the same way into cos it's just that way But I think that the CDO, regardless of institutions, responsibility end in to make sure there's an Indian framework from strategy execution, including all of the governance and compliance components, and that you have ownership of each piece in the organization. CDO most companies doesn't own all of that, but I think they have a responsibility and too many organizations that hasn't occurred. So you always find gaps and each organization somewhere between risk costs and value, in terms of how how they're, how the how the organization's driving data and in my current role. Like I said, I wanted to focus. We want the focus to really be on how we're enabling, and I may be enabling from a risk and compliance standpoint, Justus greatly as I'm enabling a gross perspective on the business or or cost management and cost reductions. We have been successful in several programs for self funding data programs for multi gears. By finding and costs, I've gone in tow several organizations that it had a decade of merger after merger and Data's afterthought in almost any merger. I mean, there's a Data Silas section session tomorrow. It'd be interesting to sit through that because I've found that data data is the afterthought in a lot of mergers. But yet I knew of one large health care company. They've made data core to all of their acquisitions, and they was one the first places they consolidated. And they grew faster by acquisition than any of their competitors. So I think there's a There's a way to do it correctly. But in most companies you go in, you'll find all kinds of legacy silos on duplication, and those are opportunities to, uh, to find really reduce costs and self fund. All the improvements, all the strategic programs you wanted, >> a number inferring from the Indian in the data roll overlaps or maybe better than gaps and data is that thread between cost risk. And it is >> it is. And I've been lucky in my career. I've report toe CEOs. I reported to see Yellows, and I've reported to CEO, so I've I've kind of reported in three different ways, and each of those executives really looked at it a little bit differently. Value obviously is in a CEO's office, you know, compliance. Maurizio owes office and costs was more in the c i o domain, but you know, we had to build a program looking >> at all three. >> You know, I think this topic, though, that we were just talking about how these rules are evolving. I think it's it's natural, because were about 5 2.0. to 7 years into the evolution of the CDO, it might be time for a CDO Um, and you see Maur CEOs moving away from pure policy and compliance Tomb or value enablement. It's a really hard change, and that's why you're starting to Seymour turnover of some of the studios because people who are really good CEOs at policy and risk and things like that might not be the best enablers, right? So I think it's pretty natural evolution. >> Great discussion, guys. We've got to leave it there, They say. Data is the new oil date is more valuable than oil because you could use data to reduce costs to reduce risk. The same data right toe to drive revenue, and you can't put a gallon of oil in your car and a quart of oil in the car quarter in your house of data. We think it's even more valuable. Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on the cues. Thanks so much. Lot of fun. Thanks. Keep right, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. You're watching the Cube from IBM CDO 2019 right back.

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Run. Welcome back to the Cubes live coverage here in San Francisco. Mosconi North while you're here as part of our exclusive covers. The Cube for IBM think twenty nineteen, their annual conference of customers and employees coming together to set the agenda for the next year. For IBM and its ecosystem. I'm John for a student. Um, in day. Volonte and Lisa Martin co hosting all week This week. Four days of wall to wall coverage. Day two of our kind Really Day one of the show Kickoff. We're here ending out that day and just had the CEO's keynote, and we're going to a review and analysis. David's do. We had a lot of interviews. Coming up to this theme is pretty clear. It's a I cloud and everything else going underneath that classic development application. Developers, developers in general, making applications That's classic, but eyes the big story. And, like like Always Cloud and the promise of Where That's Going, which is hybrid and multi cloud Dave, You set on the keynote. Any surprises from Ginny Rometty? >> I wouldn't say there were any surprises. First of all, I like Jenny. I think she she's a great presenter. I'd like to hang out with their like we were kids. That was what I wanted to hang out with us. He's a time person. I think I would feel comfortable talking to, you know, sports or business. She looked good. She had a really nice, sharp white suit on. She's self deprecating. She was drinking Starbucks. You know, they're obviously a client of IBM. I got the best moment was when Jim White hearse came on stage. He said, It's great to be here So he was like, Yeah, given thirty four billion reasons why it's great to be here kind of thing, So that was pretty funny. And she had. She made the comment. We've been dating Red Hat for twenty years before we decided to get married. She was trying to make a case You normally in Jenny's presentation, she she makes a really solid, puts forth the solid premise and then sort of backs it up with her guests. Today, I thought her premise, which was we're entering Chapter two. It's all about scaling and embedding a I everywhere. It's about hybrid. It's about bringing mission critical APS, you know, move those forward. And she had a number of other lessons learned. I thought she laid it out, but I think it sort of missed the back end. I don't think they punctuated the tail end of Jenny's talk. The guests were great and they had guys on from Kaiser Permanente E. T. And they were very solid. Well, think they made the case as strong as the premises that she put forward. And you know, we could talk more about that. >> And Stewart see red hat on stage. We've been commenting. We've been analyzing the acquisition of Red Hat, big number, thirty four billion dollars critical point you guys talk about in your opening on day one, the leverage they need to get out of that. This is the Alamo for them with the cloud. In my opinion, IBM is a lot to bring to the bear in the cloud. They I anywhere telegraphs that they wanna have their stuff with containers and multiple clouds. They want to be positioned as a multi cloud company but still have their cloud, providing the power for the workload. That makes sense, right? Bm. This is their last stand. This is like, you know, the Alamo for them. They They need to make cloud work right now. Watson, move from a product or brand ballistically open step. Is it tied together? Stew your thoughts on open stack and how this fits into their narrative. >> So I think you mean open shift, right, John s o from red hat standpoint. Absolutely what they're doing. They are involved in open stack, but open stack. You got a small, >> but they're one of the few that are sanguine on Open, Zachary read. >> I mean, read had open shift. My bad >> way it absolutely. And it is complicated in the multi cloud world and lots of different pieces. We've had a number of conversations with the IBM people that have worked with side by side, red hat in the open source communities, IBM, no stranger to open source and a CZ we talked about in our open on yesterday. It's the developers is really what where IBM needs to go and where Red Hat has a bevy of them on DH John. What you said about Multi Cloud? Absolutely. It's if IBM thinks that buying Red hat will make them the Goebel Global player in Cloud. I think that's wrong, and I don't think that's what they're doing. When I wrote a block post when it came, and I said, Is this move going to radically change the cloud landscape? No. Can this acquisition radically change IBM and change the trajectory of where they fit into Multi cloud? Absolutely. So there's cultural differences. We had Ah, Stephanie sheriffs on who's a longtime IBM er who now runs the biggest business inside of Red Hat. And she talked about the passion of open source. This is not lip service. I've many friends that have worked for it. Had I've, you know, worked with them, partner with them and cover them for most of those twenty years on DH? Absolutely. You've got over ten thousand people that are passionate involved in communities on DH. When you talk about the developer world, you talk about the cloud native world. This is what you know. Really. Red Hat moment has been waiting. >> It was interesting. John and I would like one if you could comment on this is you hearing IBM? Jenny talked about Chapter two. She took a digital reinvention. Here's yet another company using the reinvent terminology. I think that's what sort of pointed she talked. About forty percent of the world is going to be private. Sixty percent is going to be public Cloud. The sort of that's the first time I've heard those that she said It's flipped if you're ah, regulated industry. But what do your thoughts on people essentially using and Amazons narrative on reinvention? >> Everyone's using Amazons narrative. Here's the bottom line. Amazon is winning impact large margins. I think the numbers airway skewed in the favor of the people trying to catch up. I think that's more of a game. If vacation by the analyst firms, Amazon is absolutely blowing away the competition when it comes to public loud. The only game at the table right now for the Oracle's, IBM, Sze and Microsoft and Google is the slow down the adoption of Amazon. And you see the cloud adoption of Amazon, whether it's in the government sector, which I think is more acute. And Mohr illustrative, the Jet I contract a ten billion dollar contract. That is a quote sole source deal. But it was bid as a multi source deal means anyone could bid on it. Well, guess what? That is a going to be an award and probably to Amazon as the sole winner because IBM doesn't have the certification. Nor does Microsoft notice Oracle. Nobody's got Amazons winning that, and that begs the argument. Can you use one cloud? And the answer is Yes, you can. If the APP worked, Load works best for it, and procurement does not decide output for the cloud. For example, if it's a Jet I contract, it's a military application. So, like a video game, would you want to play a video game and be lagging? Would you want our military to be lagging? Certainly, the D O d. Says no. So one cloud makes sense. If you're running office three sixty five, you want to use azure. So Microsoft has taken that, and their earnings have been phenomenal by specialising around their workloads. That makes sense for Azure, and they're catching up. IBM has an opportunity to do the same for their workload. The business workload. So aye, aye, anywhere is interesting to me. So I think this is a good bet. If they can pull it off, that's the strategy, and the world will go multi cloud, where certain clouds will be sold for the apple sole source for the workloads. That makes sense for those workload. So this is where the market's going, right? So this whole notion of there won't be multi class. It's going to be multi cloud and it's gonna winner, winner take most. And the game right now is to stop ama's. That is clearly the case, and you're seeing it in the bids you see in the customer base. And IBM is catching Oppa's fast as they can. They got the people and the technology. The question is, how much do they catch up and level up? Tamas on? >> Well, stew despite Jenny, you know, invoking the reinvent terminology, they're her. Kino was starkly different than what you would expect from an Amazon Kino. They may. She mentioned a couple of the announcements, Watson anywhere, which, by the way, is about time. It's about time that Watson ran on other people's clouds of it, which should have been a while ago and in hyper protect is the world's most secure cloud. But we don't have any really details on that. And then I'd be in business automation with Watson, and that was really it. I think it was by design not to give a big product pitch, you know, very non Steve jobs. Like very done, Andy Jazzy like which is all product product product. I mean, kind of surprising in a big show with all these customers. You think they'd be pitching, but I think their intent was to really be more content. Orient >> Well, So Dave, you know, goes back at the core. What is IBM's biggest business? IBM biggest businesses. So services. So I've done a number of interviews this week already talking about how IBM is helping with digital transformation, how they're helping people move to more agile and development for environments. You know, the multi cloud world. How do they know IBM has a long history with C. S, P s and M s peace? So they have large constituencies And sure, they have products. You know, great stuff talking about, You know, how do they have the best infrastructure to run your workloads and the strength that they haven't supercomputing in HPC. And how they can leverage that? Because IBM knows a thing or two about scale. But, you know, Dave, one of the questions I have for you is we've seen the big services organizations go through radical downsizing. You know, HP spun off their business. Del got rid of the Perot business. You know, IBM still is, you know, services. At its core, it is IBM built for the multi cloud cloud native. You know, Ai ai world, Or do they still need to go through some massive changes? >> Well, multi Cloud is complicated and complex. IBM does complicated services, you know, deal with complexity, but I still can't help but feel like, >> Well, I well, I thought, wouldn't comment on them. I think the services. If the Manual Services Professional Services dropped down, IBM has a great opportunity to move them to cloud based services, meaning I can write software. And this is where I think they have an advantage. They could really nail the business applications, which will become services, whether its domain expertise in a vertical. And I think this is their cloud opportunity. IBM could capture that they could take entirely new category of applications. Business applications and services, automate them with machine learning, automate them with cloud scale their cloud scale while making them portable on multiple clouds. So the notion of services will be the professional services classic your grandfather's services, too. Cloud based services at scale. >> Yeah, well, I think you're right. Look, that's one. IBM is biggest strengths, and Jenny did that acquisition. By the way. The PwC acquisition is one hundred thousand. People instantly brought IBM into that deep vertical industry expertise, and they're not going to give that up any time soon. And this so many opportunities to code. If I those services or that song you know, through software and make them repeatable services, I mean, they're at as a service. Business is one of the fastest growing parts of IBM, you know, revenue stream. So I don't see that going. Wait. All I do think there was a missed opportunity and maybe they can't talk about it for was some regulatory reason. They're just paranoid. But you had white hearse up on the stage. You just spent thirty four billion dollars. I would have liked to hurt Mohr about the rationale, even though we've heard it before. They did. You know, Jim and Jeannie did a tour there on all the big TV shows You're on Kramer. But I would have liked to heard sort of six months on what that rationale is and how they're going to help transform with this in this new chapter and what that role that red hat was going play, I thought it was a missed opportunity. >> Well, speculate on that. I think of things. Probably. They probably don't have their answer yet. IBM is very good on messaging. You know, they're pretty tight, but I think Arvin Krishna talked to assert this morning. On our first interview. He brought up the container ization and Coburn Eddie's trend. I think that's where red hat fits and melons and give them cloud Native developers in Enterprise Fortune one thousand. They also got the cloud native ecosystem behind that the C in C F etcetera. But Containers does for Legacy Container ization, and Cooper daddies really preserves legacy. It allows developers to essentially keep the old while bringing in the new and managing the life cycle of those applications, not a ribbon replace. This is an opportunity for IBM, and if I think the messaging folks and the product dies or probably figure out okay, how do we take the red hat and open shift and be cloud native and take all the goodness that comes in with cloud Native the new developers, the Devil Infrastructures code, make under the covers infrastructure programmable and is Rob Thomas pointed out, having horizontal data layer that enables new kinds of business services. So to me, container ization, it's kind of nerdy Cooper netease. But this is really a new linchpin to what could be a sea change for IBM in terms of revenue. Keeping the Legacy customs happy because then the pressure to move to Amazon goes away because I can say, Whoa, wait. If the question is, why adopt if customs have an answer for that that gives IBM time, This is what they want otherwise, cloud native worlds could move very, very fast. We've seen the velocity of the momentum, and I think that's a key move. >> I think your point about slowing down the Amazon momentum is a good one, and I want to talk about five things that Ginny said that lessons learned, she said. One. You can approach the world from outside in and focus on customer experience. Or you could do inside out, identify new ways to work and new work flows, you know, kind of driving change. The third lesson learned was You need a business platform fueled by data with invented A I. The fourth is you need an ai ai platform. And in the fifth is Rob Thomas is you can't have a eye without a word that you needed information, architecture, which, by the way, I believe it to be true. So those are business oriented discussions. It's not something that you necessarily here from Amazon there kind of chewy. There's the services component to all that. The big question I have is Well, Watson, be that ai ai platform. >> Yeah, I mean something, You know, I look at is why Doe I choose a platform and a partner. So we understand Amazon, you know, they want to be the leader and everything. They have a lot more services in anyone. But, you know, if I want data services, first cloud that comes to mind to me is Google. You know, Google has a real strength there, You know. Where does IBM have a leadership compared to Google business productivity? IBM has a lot of strength there, but Microsoft also has a place so you know, customers. If they're going to live, Multi cloud, they're going Teo in many ways go backto best of breed on DH. Therefore, where will IBM differentiate themselves from some of those? >> We have visibility down. It's clear now that the industry the fog is lifting, starting to see Cem clear lines of sight and a few major trends. And it's pretty clear on where the industry's going for the next ten years. Application developers at the top of the stack gonna build APS The infrastructures cloud cloud something multi cloud cloud, native infrastructures, code and data. And a I see that Amazon reinvent sage maker. You're seeing all the major innovations happening around APS using data power advice, cloud scale, that's it. Everything else to me is glue or some sort of fabric component. Or a piece of that distributed architecture and its cloud. Aye, aye, and an apple. >> A CZ. Dave is often said, it's the innovation sandwich of today. >> Yeah, well, so I guess the things I want to mention it because of me. There's been some high profile failed failures with Watson, But watching was trying to do some things that were not, you know, voice response to Alexa, you know, solve cancer, you know, world problems and so I think IBM is actually earned the right to be in the discussion, and the Red had acquisition gives IBM instant credibility in this game, especially in this a multi cloud game. >> Well, they got me. They have the right to be the zillions of customers. They have a lot of a lot of business model innovations with that that their customers are innovating on. And if they keep the cloud innovate, they gotta match the specs. Specs of the cloud. They gotta be there with Cloud. If they don't make the cloud work, they're going to be subservient to the other clouds. They have to make it in the top three. This is clear. Hey, I think I think we're working a lot of experience and data. I think Watson kind of finding his home is a brand's natural fit. Got a portfolio of data? I think IBM will do very well in the data front. It's the cloud game that they got a really sure up. They got to make sure that IBM cloud conserved. They're custom, >> but the good news is there is there. In the game we saw HPD tried to get into HPD, tried to get the cloud it failed. Cisco, for a while, was trying to get with Sawyer. AMC make of numerous attempts. VM were made, made numerous attempts. IBM spent two billion dollars in software. They they they've got a cloud. You know, they've transformed what was essentially a bare metal hosting platform, you know, into a cloud. They've jammed all there as a service products in there. They're SAS portfolio. So there, at least in the game and, you know, again, I've said often, I think they're very Oracle like it's not the biggest cloud. It's not going to scale to the Amazon levels, but they've got a cloud, and it's a key part of the strategy. >> Innovation Sandwich applications Cloud What data? In the middle of a I. That's the formula, David said on the Q beer. All right day to coverage for the Cuba. Four days were here in the lobby of Mosconi North, part of the new refurbished Mosconi Center in San Francisco. Howard Street's closed. It feels like Salesforce. Dreamforce event. Big event in San Francisco. I'm John First Amendment Dave along. They were here for four days Day, two of four days of coverage for IBM think back tomorrow. Thanks for watching.

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Hello and welcome back to the Cubes. Live coverage here and savor still were alive for IBM. Think twenty nineteen. The Cubes Exclusive contract. Jon for a stimulant in our next two guests of the Cloud gurus and IBM and VM Where A. J. Patel senior vice president general manager Cloud Providers Software Business Unit. Good to see you again. Baron. Scram A general manager. IBM Cloud Guys. Thanks for Spend the time. Get to the cloud gurus. Get it? They're having What's going on? Having privilege. Osti Cloud's been around. We've seen the public Cloud Momentum hybrid Certainly been around for a while. Multi clouds of big conversation. People are having role of data that is super important. Aye, aye, anywhere you guys, an IBM have announced because I've been on this. I'm on >> a journey or a >> library for awhile. On premise. It was on VM, where all the good stuff's happening. This the customers customers want this talk about the relationship you guys have with IBM. >> You know, the broad of'em were IBM relationship over nine, ten years old. I had the privilege of being part of the cloud the last couple years. The momentum is amazing. Over seventeen hundred plus customers and the Enterprise customers, not your you know, one node trial customer. These are really mission critical enterprise customers using this at that scale, and the number one thing we hear from customers is make it easy for me to leverage Plowed right, operate in the world when I'm using my own prim and my public cloud assets make it seamless, and this is really what we've talked about a lot, right? How do we provide that ubiquitous digital platform for them to operate in this hybrid world? And we're privileged to have IBM Of the great partner in this journey >> are some of the IBM cloud, Ginny Rometty said on CNBC this morning. We saw the interview with my friend John Ford over there. Aye, aye. Anywhere means going run on any cloud. Watson with containers. That's cloud DNA. Sitting the cloud with good Burnett ease and containers is changing the game. Now you can run a lot of things everywhere. This's what customers want. End to end from on. Premise to wherever. How has that changed the IBM cloud posture? Its products? You share a little bit of that. >> You absolutely so look I mean, people have their data in different places, and as you know, it's a really expensive to move stuff around. You gotta make sure it's safe, etcetera, So we want to take our applications and run them against the data wherever they are right? And when you think about today's landscape in the cloud industry, I think it's a perfect storm, a good, perfect storm and that containers and Kubernetes, you know, everyone's rallying around at the ecosystem that consumers, the providers. And it just makes us easy for us to take that capability and really make it available on multicloud. And that's what we're doing. >> to talk about your joint customers. Because the BM where has a lot of operators running, running virtually change? For a long time, you guys have been big supporters of that and open source that really grew that whole generation that was seeing with cloud talk about your customers, your mo mentum, Howyou, guys air, just ballpark. How many customers you guys have together? And what if some of the things that they're doing >> all right? So I know this is a really interesting story. I was actually away from IBM for just over two years. But one of the last things I did when I was an IBM the first time around was actually start this Veum where partnership and seated the team that did it. So coming back, it's really interesting to see the uptake it's had, You know, we've got, like, seven hundred customers together over seventeen hundred customers. Together, we've moved tens of thousands of'em workloads, and as I just said, we've done it in a mission. Critical fashion across multiple zones across multiple regions. On now, you know, we want to take it to the next level. We want to make sure that these people that have moved their basic infrastructure and the mission critical infrastructure across the public cloud can extend those applications by leveraging the cloud near application that we have on our cloud. Plus, we want to make it possible for them to move their workloads to other parts of the IBM ecosystem in terms of our capabilities. >> Any one of the things we found was the notion of modernizer infrastructure, first lift and then transform. He's starting to materialize, and we used to talk about this has really the way the best way to use, cowed or use hybrid cloud was start by just uplifting your infrastructure and whether it's west back, you ask for some customers. I respect a great example. I think that we're talking about it in the Parisian. I joined presentation tomorrow or you look at, you know, Kaiser, who's going to be on stage tomorrow? We're seeing industries across the board are saying, You know, I have a lot of complexity sitting on aging hardware, older versions of infrastructure software. How do I modernize A platform first lifted, shifted to leverage a cloud. And then I could transform my application using more and more portable service that'S covering decides to provide a kind of infrastructure portability. But what about my data, Right. What about if I could run my application with the data? So I think we're starting to see the securing of the use of cloud based on workloads and averaging that's that's >> Yeah, a J. What wonder if we could dig a little love level deeper on that? Because, you know, I think backto, you know, fifteen years or so ago, it was bm where allowed me to not have to worry about my infrastructure. My, you know OS in my you know, server that I was running on might be going end of life. Well, let me shove it in a V M. And then I couldn't stand the life, and then I can manage how that happens. Course. The critique I would have is maybe it's time to update that that application anyway, so I like the message that you're saying about Okay, let me get a to a process where I'm a little bit freer of where, and then I can do the hard work of updating that data. Updating that application, you know, help us understand. >> It's no longer about just unlocking the compute right, which was worth trying the server. It's What about my network we talked about earlier? Do I need a suffered If our network well, the reality is, everything is going programmable. If you want a program of infrastructure, it's compute network storage all software defined. So the building block for us is a suffer to find data center running on the infrastructure that IBM pride sixty plus data centers bare metal at Scholastic and then leering that with IBM cloud private, whether it's hosted or on premise, fear gives you that full stack that nirvana, the people talk about supportable stack going, talk about >> right and adding to what he said, right? You said, You know, it's not about just moving your old stuff to the to the cloud. Absolutely. So as I said in one of the earlier conversations that we have, we had is we have a whole wealth of new services, whether it's Blockchain R. I o. T or the that used. You spoke about leveraging those capabilities to further extend your app and give it a new lease of life to provide new insights is what it's all about. >> What? Well, that that that's great, because it's one thing to just say, Okay, I get it there. Can I get better utilization? Is that change my pricing? But it's the services, and that's kind of the promise of the cloud is, you know, if I built something in my environment, that's great and I can update and I can get updates. But if I put it in your environment, you can help manage some of those things as well as I should have access to all of these services. IBM's got a broad ecosystem can you give us? You know what are some of the low hanging fruit is to people when they get there, that they're unlocking data that they're using things like a I What? What What are some of the most prevalent services that people are adding when they go to the IBM clouds? >> So when you look at people who first moved their work list of the cloud, typically they tend to dip their toe in the water. They take what's running on Prem. They used the IRS capabilities in the cloud and start to move it there. But the real innovation really starts to happen further up the stock, so to speak. The platform is a service, things like a II OT blocked and all the things that I mentioned, eso es very natural. Next movement is to start to modernize those applications and add to it. Capability is that it could never have before because, you know it was built in a monolith and it was on prim, and it was kind of stuck there. So now the composition that the cloud gives you with all of these rich services where innovation happens first, that is the real benefit to our customers. >> Every she said, you took a little hiatus from IBM and went out outside IBM. Where did you go and what did you learn? What was that? Goldman Jack. JP Morgan, Where were you? >> So it was a large bank. You know, I'm not not allowed to say the name of the bank. >> One of those two. It >> was a large bank on, and it wasn't the U S. So that narrows down the field. Some >> What is it like to go outside? They'll come inside. U C Davis for cutting edge bank. Now you got IBM Cloud. You feel good about where things are. >> Yeah. You know, if you look at what a lot of these banks are trying to do, they start to attack the cloud journey saying we're going to take everything that ran in the bank for years and years and years. And we're going to, you know, make them micro services and put them all on public cloud. And that's when you really hit the eighty twenty percent problem because you've got a large monolith that don't lend themselves to be re factored and moved out. Tio, eh, Public cloud. So you know again, Enter communities and containers, etcetera. These allow you a way to modernize your applications where you can either deploy those containerized You know, piers you go type models on prim or on public. And if you have a rich enough set of services both on Prem in on the public loud, you can pretty much decide how much of it runs on Trevor's is becoming much more clouds >> moment choice. So really, it's finding deployment. So basically, what you're saying is that we get this right. I want to get your reaction. This You don't have to kill the old to bring in the new containers and Cooper netease and now service measures around the corner. You can bring in new work clothes, take advantage of the cutting edge technology and manage your life cycle of the work loads on the old side or it just can play along. I >> think what we're finding is, you know, we moved from hybrid being a destination to an operating model, and it's no longer about doing this at scale like my multi clark. Any given applications tied to a cloud or destination? It's a late binding decision, but as an aggregate. I may be amusing multiple close, right. So that more model we're moving to is really about a loving developer. Super your workload centric and services centric to see Where do I want to run in Africa? >> Okay, what one of the challenges with multi cloud is their skill sets. I need to worry about it. It can be complex. I want to touch on three points and love to get both your viewpoints, networking, security and management. How do we help tackle that? Make that simple >> right off customers? >> Yeah, sure. So you know, I think when you think about clouds, public clouds especially it's beyond your data center and the mindset out there as if it's beyond my data center. It can be safe. But when you start to build those constructs in the modern era, you really do take care of a lot of things that perhaps you're on Prem pieces that not take into consideration when they were built like many decades ago. Right? So with the IBM public Cloud, for example, you know, security's at the heart of it. We have a leadership position. There was one of the things that we've announced is people keep protect for not only Veum, where workload visa and we sphere etcetera, but also for other applications making use off our public cloud services. Then, when you talk about our Z, you know we have a hardware as security model, which is fifty one forty, level two or dash to level four, which nobody else in the industry has. So when you put your key in there on ly, the customer can take it out, not him. Azaz clouds of his providers can touch it. It will basically disintegrate, you know, sort of speak >> H ey. Talk about VM wears customer base inside the IBM ecosystem. What's new? What should they pay attention to? As you guys continue the momentum. >> So I think if you look at the last two years, it's been around what we call these larger enterprise. Dedicated clouds. Exciting thing in the horizon is we're adding a multi tenant IRS on top of this BM, we're dedicated. So being able to provide that Brett off access thing with dedicated multi tenant public out I, as fully programmable, allows us to go downmarket. So expect the customer kind of go up being able to consume it on a pay as you go basis leveraging kind of multi tenant with dedicated, but it's highly secure or for depth test. So are the use cases kind of joke. We're going to see a much larger sort of use cases that I'm most excited about >> is the bottom line. Bottom line me. I'm the customer. Bottom line me. What's in it for me? What I got >> for the customers with a safest choice, right? It's the mission critical secure cloud. You can now run the same application on Prem in a dedicated environment in public, Claude on IBM or in a multi tenant >> world. And on the Klaxon match on the cloud sign. I could take advantage of all the things you have and take advantage of that. Watson A. I think that Rob Thomas has been talking about Oh yeah, >> absolutely. And again. You know the way that we built I c P forty, which is IBM plowed private for data. You know, it's all containerized. It's orchestrated by Coop, so you can not only build it. You can either run it on crime. You can run it on our public loud or you can run it on other people's public clouds as well >> nourished for customers and for people. They're looking at IBM Cloud and re evaluating you guys now again saying Or for the first time, what should they look at? Cloud private? What key thing would you point someone to look at, IBM? They were going to inspect your cloud offering >> so again, and it's back to my story in the bank. Right? It's, uh you can't do everything in the public cloud, right? There are just certain things that need to remain on creme On. We'll be so for the foreseeable future. So when you take a look at our hybrid story, the fact that it is has a consistent based on which it is built on. It is a industry standard open source base. You know, you build your application to suit the needs of an application, right? Is it low lately? See, Put it on. Crim. You need some cloud Native services. Put it on the public cloud. Do you need to be near your data that lives on somebody else's cloud? Go put it on their cloud. Right. So it really is not a one. Size fits all its whatever your business >> customer where he is, right? That's often >> the way flexibility, choice, flexibility. Enjoy the store for all things cloud. >> Yeah, last thing I want to ask is where to developers fit in tow this joint Solucion >> es O. So I think the biggest thing is that's trying to change for us is making these services available in a portable manner. When do I couldn't lock into the public cloud service with particular data and unlocking that from the infrastructures will be a key trend. So for us, it's about staying true to Coburn eddies and upstream with the distribution. So it's portable for wanting more and more services and making it easy for them to access a catalogue of services on a bagel manner but then making operation a viable. So then you're deployed. You can support the day two operations that are needed. So it's a full life cycle with developers not having to worry about the heavy burden of running an operating. What >> exactly? You know, it's all about the developers. As you well know in the cloud world, the developer is the operator. So as long as you can give him or her, the right set of tools to do C. I C. Dev ops on DH get things out there in a consistent fashion, whether it is on a tram or a public cloud. I think it's a win for all. >> That's exactly the trend We're seeing operations moving to more developers and more big time operational scale questions where your programming, the infrastructure. Absolutely. Developers. You don't want to deal with it >> and making it work. Listen tricks. So you know when to deploy. What workload? Having full control. That's part of the deployment >> exam. Alright, final question. I know we got a break. We're in tight on time. Final point share perspective of what's what's important here happening. And IBM. Think twenty nineteen people who didn't make it here in San Francisco are watching. You have to top cloud executives on VM wear and IBM here as biased towards cloud, of course. But you know, if you're watching, what's the most important story happening this week? What's what's going on with IBM? Think Why is this conference this week important? >> I think for us, it's basically saying We're here to meet you where you are, regardless, where you on your customer journey. It's all about choice. It's no longer only about public Cloud, and you now have a lot of capably of your finger trips to take your legacy workloads or your neck, new workplace or any app anywhere we can help you on that journey. That would be the case with >> you, and I wouldn't go that right, said it slightly differently. You know, a lot of the public service of public cloud service providers kind of bring you over to their public loud, and then you're kind of stuck over there and customers don't like that. I mean, you look at the statistics for everybody has at least two or more public clouds. They're worried about the connective ity, the interoperability, the security costs, the cost, the skills to manage all of it. And I think we have the perfect solution of solutions that really start Teo. Speak to that problem. >> So the world's getting more complex as more functionalities here, Software's gonna distract it away. Developers need clean environment to work in programmable infrastructure. >> And you know where an IBM Safe Choice, choice, choice. >> We have to go on top to cloud executives here. Inside the cue from IBM of'em were bringing all the coverage. Was the Cube here in the lobby of Mosconi North on Howard Street in San Francisco for IBM? Think twenty. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. Thank you. Thank you.

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. >> Hi everybody, Dave Vellante here with Stu Miniman. We're here to unpack the recent acquisition that IBM announced of Red Hat. $34 billon acquisition financed with cash and debt. And Stu, let me get us started. Why would IBM spend $34 billion on Red Hat? Its largest acquisition to date of a software company had been Cognos at $5 billion. This is a massive move. IBM's Ginni Rometty called this a game changer. And essentially, my take is that they're pivoting. Their public cloud strategy was not living up to expectations. They're pivoting to hybrid cloud. Their hybrid cloud strategy was limited because they didn't really have strong developer mojo, their Bluemix PaaS layer had really failed. And so they really needed to make a big move here, and this is a big move. And so IBM's intent, and Ginni Rometty laid out the strategy, is to become number one in hybrid cloud, the undisputed leader. And so we'll talk about that. But Stu, from Red Hat's perspective, it's a company you're very close to and you've observed for a number of years, Red Hat was on a path touting a $5 billion revenue plan, what happened? Why would they capitulate? >> Yeah Dave, on the face of it, Red Hat says that IBM will help it further its mission. We just listened to Arvin Krishna from IBM talking with Paul Cormier at Red Hat, and they talked about how they were gonna keep the Red Hat brand alive. IBM has a long history with open source. As you mentioned, I've been working with Red Hat, gosh, almost 20 years now, and we all think back to two decades ago, when IBM put a billion dollars into Linux and really pushed on open source. So these are not strangers, they know each other really well. Part of me looks at these from a cynicism standpoint. Somebody on Twitter said that Red Hat is hitting it at the peak of Kubernetes hype. And therefore, they're gonna get maximum valuation for where the stock is. Red Hat has positioned itself rather well in the hybrid cloud world, really the multicloud world, when you go to AWS, when you go to the Microsoft Azure environment, you talk to Google. Open source fits into that environment and Red Hat products specifically tie into those environments. Remember last year, in Boston, there's a video of Andy Jassy talking about a partnership with Red Hat. This year, up on stage, Microsoft with Azure partnering deeply with Red Hat. So Red Hat has done a nice job of moving beyond Linux. But Linux is still at its core. There definitely is concern that the operating system is less important today than it was in the past. It was actually Red Hat's acquisition of CoreOS for about $250 million earlier this year that really put a fine point on it. CoreOS was launched to be just enough Linux to live in this kind of container and Kubernetes world. And Red Hat, of course, like we've seen often, the company that is saying, "We're going to kill you", well you go and you buy them. So Red Hat wasn't looking to kill IBM, but definitely we've seen this trend of softwares eating the world, and open sources eating software. So IBM, hopefully, is a embracing that open source ethos. I have to say, Dave, for myself, a little sad to see the news. Red Hat being the paragon of open source. The one that we always go to for winning in this space. So we hope that they will be able to keep their culture. We've had a chance, many times, to interview Jim Whitehurst, really respected CEO. One that we think should stay involved in IBM deeply for this. But if they can keep and grow the culture, then it's a win for Red Hat. But still sorting through everything, and it feels like a little bit of a capitulation that Red Hat decides to sell off rather than keep its mission of getting to five billion and beyond, and be the leading company in the space. >> Well I think it is a bit of a capitulation. Because look, Red Hat is roughly a $3 billion company, growing at 20% a year, had that vision of five billion Its stock, in June, had hit $175. So while IBM's paying a 60% premium off of its current price, it's really only about 8 or 9% higher than where Red Hat was just a few months ago. And so I think, there's an old saying on Wall Street, the first disappointment is never the last. And so I think that Red Hat was looking at a long slog. They reduced expectations, they guided lower, and they were looking at the 90-day shot clock. And this probably wasn't going to be a good 'nother couple of years for Red Hat. And they're selling at the peak of the market, or roughly the peak of the market. They probably figured, hey, the window is closing, potentially, to do this deal. Maybe not such a bad time to get out, as opposed to trying to slog it out. Your thoughts. >> Yeah, Dave, I think you're absolutely right. When you look at where Red Hat is winning, they've done great in OpenStack but there's not a lot of excitement around OpenStack. Kubernetes was talked about lots in the announcement, in the briefings, and everything like that. I was actually surprised you didn't hear as much about just the core business. You would think you would be hearing about all the companies using Red Hat Enterprise Linux around the world. That ratable model that Red Hat really has a nice base of their environment. It was talking more about the future and where Kubernetes, and cloud-native, and all of that development will go. IBM has done middling okay with developers. They have a strong history in middleware, which is where a lot of the Red Hat development activity has been heading. It was interesting to hear, on the call, it's like, oh well, what about the customers that are using IBM too say, "Oh well, if customers want that, we'll still do it." What about IBM with Cloud Foundry? Well absolutely, if customers wanna still be doing it, they'll do that. So you don't hear the typical, "Oh well, we're going to take Red Hat technology "and push it through all of IBM's channel." This is in the IBM cloud group, and that's really their focus, as it is. I feel like they're almost limiting the potential for growth for Red Hat. >> Well so IBM's gonna pay for this, as I said, it's an all cash deal. IBM's got about 14 and a half billion dollars on the balance sheet. And so they gotta take out some debt. S&P downgraded IBM's rating from an A+ to an A. And so the ratings agency is going to be watching IBM's growth. IBM said this will add 200 basis points of revenue growth over the five year CAGR. But that means we're really not gonna see that for six, seven years. And Ginni Rometty stressed this is not a backend loaded thing. We're gonna find revenue opportunities through cross-selling and go-to-market. But we have a lot of questions on this deal, Stu. And I wanna sorta get into that. So first of all, again, I think it's the right move for IBM. It's a big move for IBM. Rumors were that Cisco might have been interested. I'm not sure if Microsoft was in the mix. So IBM went for it and, as I said, didn't pay a huge premium over where their stock was back in June. Now of course, back in June, the market was kind of inflated. But nonetheless, the strategy now is to go multi-cloud. The number one in the multi-cloud world. What is that multi-cloud leadership? How are we gonna measure multi-cloud? Is IBM, now, the steward of open source for the industry? To your point earlier, you're sad, Stu, I know. >> You bring up a great point. So I think back to three years ago, with the Wikibon we put together, our true private cloud forecast. And when we built that, we said, "Okay, here's the hardware, and software, "and services in private cloud." And we said, "Well let's try to measure hybrid cloud." And we spent like, six months looking at this. And it's like, well what is hybrid cloud? I've got my public cloud pieces, and I've got my private cloud pieces. Well there's some management layers and things that go in between. Do I count things like PaaS? So do you save people like Pivotal and Red Hat's OpenShift? Are those hybrid cloud? Well but they live either here or there. They're not usually necessarily helping with the migration and moving around. I can live in multiple environments. So Linux and containers live in the public, they live in the private, they don't just fly around in the ether. So measuring hybrid cloud, I think is really tough. Does IBM plus Red Hat make them a top leader in this hybrid multi-cloud world? Absolutely, they should be mentioned a lot more. When I go to the cloud shows, the public cloud shows, IBM isn't one of the first peak companies you think about. Red Hat absolutely is in the conversation. It actually should raise the profile of Red Hat because, while Red Hat plays in a lot of the conversations, they're also not the first company that comes to mind when you talk about them. Microsoft, middle of hybrid cloud. Oracle, positioning their applications in this multi-cloud world. Of course you can't talk about cloud, any cloud, without talking about Amazon's position in the marketplace. And SAS is the real place that it plays. So IBM, one of their biggest strengths is that they have applications. Dave, you know the space really well. What does this mean vis-à-vis Oracle? >> Well let's see, so Oracle, I think, is looking at this, saying, alright. I would say IBM is Oracle's number one competitor in the enterprise. You got SAP, and Amazon obviously in cloud, et cetera, et cetera. But let me put it this way, I think Oracle is IBM's number one competitor. Whether Oracle sees it that way or not. But they're clearly similar companies, in terms of their vertical integration. I think Oracle's looking at this, saying, hey. There's no way Oracle was gonna spend $34 billion on Red Hat. And I don't think they were interested in really spending any money on the alternatives. But does this put Canonical and SUSE in play? I think Oracle's gonna look at this and sort of message to its customers, "We're already number one in our world in hybrid cloud." But I wanna come back to the deal. I'm actually optimistic on the deal, from the standpoint of, I think IBM had to make a big move like this. Because it was largely just bumping along. But I'm not buying the narrative from Jim Whitehurst that, "Well we had to do this to scale." Why couldn't they scale with partners? I just don't understand that. They're open. This is largely, to me, a services deal. This is a big boon for IBM Services business. In fact, Jim Whitehurst, and Ginni even said that today on the financial analyst call, Jim said, "Our big constraint was "services scale and the industry expertise there." So what was that constraint? Why couldn't they partner with Accenture, and Ernie Young, and PwC, and the likes of Deloitte, to scale and preserve greater independence? And I think that the reason is, IBM sees an opportunity and they're going hard after it. So how will, or will, IBM change its posture relative to some of those big services plays? >> Yeah, Dave, I think you're absolutely right there. Because Red Hat should've been able to scale there. I wonder if it's just that all of those big service system integrators, they're working really closely with the public cloud providers. And while Red Hat was a piece of it, it wasn't the big piece of it. And therefore, I'm worried on the application migration. I'm worried about the adoption of infrastructure as a service. And Red Hat might be a piece in the puzzle, but it wasn't the driver for that change, and the move, and the modernization activities that were going on. That being said, OpenShift was a great opportunity. It plays in a lot of these environments. It'll be really interesting to see. And a huge opportunity for IBM to take and accelerate that business. From a services standpoint, do you think it'll change their position with regard to the SIs? >> I don't. I think IBM's gonna try to present, preserve Red Hat as an independent company. I would love to see IBM do what EMC did years ago with VMware, and float some portion of the company, and truly have it at least be quasi-independent. With an independent operating structure, and reporting structure from the standpoint of a public company. That would really signal to the partners that IBM's serious about maintaining independence. >> Yeah now, look Dave, IBM has said they will keep the brand, they will keep the products. Of all the companies that would buy Red Hat, I'm not super worried about kinda polluting open source. It was kinda nice that Jim Whitehurst would say, if it's a Red Hat thing, it is 100% open source. And IBM plays in a lot of these environments. A friend of mine on Twitter was like, "Oh hey, IBM's coming back to OpenDaylight or things like that." Because they'd been part of Cloud Foundry, they'd been part of OpenDaylight. There's certain ones that they are part of it and then they step back. So IBM, credibly open source space, if they can let Red Hat people still do their thing. But the concern is that lots of other companies are gonna be calling up project leads, and contributors in the open source community that might've felt that Red Hat was ideal place to live, and now they might go get their paycheck somewhere else. >> There's rumors that Jim Whitehurst eventually will take over IBM. I don't see it, I just don't think Jim Whitehurst wants to run Z mainframes and Services. That doesn't make any sense to me. Ginni's getting to the age where IBM CEOs typically retire, within the next couple of years. And so I think that it's more likely they'll bring in somebody from internally. Whether it's Arvin or, more likely, Jim Kavanaugh 'cause he's got the relationship with Wall Street. Let's talk about winners and losers. It's just, again, a huge strategic move for IBM. Frankly, I see the big winners is IBM and Red Hat. Because as we described before, IBM was struggling with its execution, and Red Hat was just basically, finally hitting a wall after 60-plus quarters of growth. And so the question is, will its customers win? The big concern I have for the customers is, IBM has this nasty habit of raising prices when it does acquisitions. We've seen it a number of times. And so you keep an eye on it, if I were a Red Hat customer, I'd be locking in some attractive pricing, longterm. And I would also be calling Mark Shuttleworth, and get his take, and get that Amdahl coffee cup on my desk, as it were. Other winners and losers, your thoughts on some of the partners, and the ecosystem. >> Yeah, when I look at this and say, compare it to Microsoft buying GitHub. We're all wondering, is this a real game changer for IBM? And if they embrace the direction. It's not like Red Hat culture is going to just take over IBM. In the Q&A with IBM, they said, "Will there be influence? Absolutely. "Is this a marriage of equals? No. "We're buying Red Hat and we will be "communicating and working together on this" But you can see how this can help IBM, as to the direction. Open source and the multi-cloud world is a huge, important piece. Cisco, I think, could've made a move like this. I would've been a little bit more worried about maintaining open source purity, if it was somebody like Cisco. There's other acquisitions, you mentioned Canonical and SUSE are out there. If somebody wanted to do this, the role of the operating system is much less important than it is today. You wouldn't have seen Microsoft up on stage at Red Hat Summit this year if Windows was the driver for Microsoft going forward. The cloud companies out there, to be honest, it really cements their presence out there. I don't think AWS is sitting there saying, "Oh jeez, we need to worry." They're saying, "Well IBM's capitulated." Realizing that, "Sure they have their own cloud, "and their environment, but they're going to be "successful only when they live in, "and around, and amongst our platform of Amazon." And Azure's gonna feel the same way, and same about Google. So there's that dynamic there. >> What about VMware? >> So I think VMware absolutely is a loser here. When I went back to say one of the biggest strengths of IBM is that they have applications. When you talk about Red Hat, they're really working, not only at the infrastructure layer, but working with developers, and working in that environment. The biggest weakness of VMware, is they don't own the applications. I'm paying licenses to VMware. And in a multi-cloud world, why do I need VMware? As opposed to Red Hat and IBM, or Amazon, or Microsoft, have a much more natural affinity for the applications and the data in the future. >> And what about the arms dealers? HPE and Dell, in particular, and of course, Lenovo. Wouldn't they prefer Red Hat being independent? >> Absolutely, they would prefer that they're gonna stay independent. As long as it doesn't seem to customers that IBM is trying to twist everybody's arms, and get you on to Z, or Power, or something like that. And continues to allow partnerships with the HPEs, Dells, Lenovos of the world. I think they'll be okay. So I'd say middling to impact. But absolutely, Red Hat, as an independent, was really the Switzerland of the marketplace. >> Ginni Rometty had sited three growth areas. One was Red Hat scale and go-to-market. I think there's no question about that. IBM could help with Red Hat's go-to-market. The other growth vector was IBM's products and software on the Red Hat stack. I'm less optimistic there, because I think that it's the strength of IBM's products, in and of themselves, that are largely gonna determine that success. And then the third was Services. I think IBM Services is a huge winner here. Having the bat phone into Red Hat is a big win for IBM Services. They can now differentiate. And this is where I think it's gonna be really interesting to see the posture of Accenture and those other big guys. I think IBM can now somewhat differentiate from those guys, saying, "Well wait, "we have exclusive, or not exclusive, "but inside baseball access to Red Hat." So that's gonna be an interesting dynamic to watch. Your final thoughts here. >> Yeah, yeah, Dave, absolutely. On the product integration piece, the question would be, you're gonna have OpenAPIs. This is all gonna work with the entire ecosystem. Couldn't IBM have done more of this without having to pay $34 billion and put things together? Services, absolutely, will be the measurement as to whether this is successful or not. That's probably gonna be the line out of them in financials, that we're gonna have to look at. Because, Dave, going back to, what is hybrid, and how do we measure it? What is success for this whole acquisition down the line? Any final pieces to what we should watch and how we measure that? >> So I think that, first of all, IBM's really good with acquisitions, so keep an eye on that. I'm not so concerned about the debt. IBM's got strong free cash flow. Red Hat throws off a billion dollars a year in free cash flow. This should be an accretive acquisition. In terms of operating profits, it might take a couple of years. But certainly from a standpoint of free cash flow and revenue growth, I think it's gonna help near-term. If it doesn't, that's something that's really important to watch. And then the last thing is culture. You know a lot of people at these companies. I know a lot of people at these companies. Look, the Red Hat culture drinks the Kool-Aid of open. You know this. Do they see IBM as the steward of open, and are they gonna face a brain drain? That's why it's no coincidence that Whitehurst and Rometty were down in North Carolina today. And Arvin and Paul Cormier were in Boston today. This is where a lot of employees are for Red Hat. And they're messaging. And so that's very, very important. IBM's not foolish. So that, to me, Stu, is a huge thing, is the culture. Dave, IBM is no longer the navy suit with the red tie, and everybody buttoned down. People are concerned about like, oh, IBM's gonna give the Red Hat people a dress code. Sure, the typical IBMer is not in a graphic tee and a hoodie. But, Dave, you've seen such a transformation in IBM over the last couple of decades. >> Yeah, definitely. And I think this really does, in my view, cement, now, the legacy of Ginny Rometty, which was kinda hanging on Watson, and Cognitive, and this sort of bespoke set of capabilities, and the SoftLayer acquisition. It, now, all comes together. This is a major pivot by IBM. I think, strategically, it's the right move for IBM. And I think, if in fact, IBM can maintain Red Hat's independence and that posture, and maintain its culture and employee base, I think it does change the game for IBM. So I would say, smart move, good move. Expensive but probably worth it. >> Yeah, where else would they have put their money, Dave? >> Yeah, right. Alright, Stu, thank you very much for unpacking this announcement. And thank you for watching. We'll see you next time. (mellow electronic music)

>> Man: Let me check. >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube. Covering InterConnect 20 17. Brought to you by IBM. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Day two, we are here live in Las Vegas for IBM InterConnect. This is Silicon Angle's The Cube coverage of IBM's cloud event. The CEO, Ginni Rometty, was just on stage. We're kickin' off wall to wall coverage for three days. I'm John Furrier, my co-host, Dave Vellante, here for all three days. >> And, our next guest is Andy Lin, who's the VP of (mumbles) Mark Three Systems. A, 20 plus year IBM platinum partner. Doin' some real cutting edge work with cognitive as Ginny Rometty said cognitive to the core, is IBM's core strategy. Data first, enterprise strong is kind of the buzz words. Andy, welcome to The Cube. Appreciate you comin' on. >> Thanks for havin' me. >> So, obviously, enterprise strong, you know, it's, it's a kind of whole nother, you know, conversation that we can go deep on, but data first and cognitive to the core is really kind of the things that you guys are really getting into. All kinds of data types. Automating it and making it almost frictionless to move insights out. So, take a minute to explain what Mark Three's doing and what your role is with the company. >> Sure. Absolutely. So, I'm Vice President of strategy in Mark Three, so I work sort of across all our initiatives, especially areas that are emerging. Just a little bit about Mark Three, just historically for background purposes. So, we're a 22 year IBM platinum partner, as you pointed out. We actually started in the mid 90's, actually doing IT infrastructure around the IBM stack at that time. So, we sort of been with IBM over the last 20 years since the beginning. We've sort of grown up throughout the stack as IBM's evolved over the last two decades. About two and a half years ago, we started a digital development unit, called BlueChasm. And what BlueChasm does, is it basically builds open digital and cognitive platforms on the IBM cloud that are around a lot of services you pointed out. And, we basically designed it based on use cases that the ecosystem and our clients talk about. And, to give you a couple examples, one of the, one of the big ones that we're seeing a lot of interest around is called video recon. Video recon is a video analytics platform that's API enabled and open at it's core. So, regardless of where the video comes from, if it's a content management system, if it's a camera, we're able to basically take in that video, basically watch and listen to the video using Watson and some elements of our own intellectual property. And, then basically return insights based on what it sees and hears along with time stamps, back to the user to actually take action. >> Yeah. I love the name BlueChasm. It brings up, you know, Jeffrey Moore's Crossing the Chasm. Blue, IBM, big blue, so you know, it's a nice clever play. The BlueChasm opportunity. So, in your mind, for people watching, squint through some of the trends and extract out where you see these opportunities. Because if you're talkin' about new opportunities are emerging because of cloud horsepower and compute and storage and all the greatness of cloud, and you got real time analytics kind of really hittin' the main stream. That's going to, that's highlighted by internet of things is you can't go anywhere these days without hearing about autonomous vehicles, industrial (mumbles) things, AI, Mark Benioff was sayin', you know, we've seen the movies like Terminator and we've all dreamed about AI, so we can kind of get excited about the prospects. But, the chasm you're talkin' about, this is where these things that were ungettable before, unreachable new things, what are some of those things that you guys are doin' in that chasm? >> Yeah, so I think some of the things that we're doing are basically enabling, like I'll use video recon as an example, right, we're enabling a class to be able to get new insights using basically computer vision, but in an open and accessible way, that they've never had been able to do before. Vision itself, I don't think is new or revolutionary. You know, a lot of folks are doing it, self driving cars, etcetera. >> John: Yeah. >> But, I think what is new is being able to make it open and easily accessible to the normal enterprise, the normal service provider. Up to now, it's been, you know you've had, really had to have your own team of, you know, really, really deep AI develops or PHD's to be able to produce it for your own platform. What we're trying to do is basically demarketize that. >> John: Yeah. >> So, to give you an example, some use cases that we're, we're sort of working on today, the ability to do things like read meters and gages, as an example, with a camera. That way you can avoid a situation where somebody has to walk around all the time, you know, look at different things that could be dangerous. That there could be issues actually looking at what you see from a metering perspective. Or to be able to, for instance, for in the media entertainment industry or the video production industry, be able to do things like identify shot types, be able to more quickly allow our enterprise users in that particular space to be able to create video content quickly. And, the underlying theme with all this, I think it's really about speed to market. And, how quickly can you iterate and please whatever your customers in that particular space that you're in. >> So with the video recon, so your, your videos are searchable, essentially. >> (Andy) Correct. >> So, so what do you do? Use Watson, natural language processing to sort of translate them? Now (mumbles), of course, you know, NLP is maybe I don't know 75, 80 percent accurate, how do you close that gap? >> Yeah, so video recon does both visual and audio. So, the audio portion you are correct. There is some degree of trade off in accuracy relative to what I think the average human can do today. Assuming the human is focused and able to really tag these videos accurately. So, we are able to train it based on things like proper words and things that are enterprise focused. Because I know there, there are a lot of different ways that I think you can maybe attack this today from a video analytics perspective, where we're focused primarily just on the enterprise, solving business problems with, with video analytics. So, you know, taking advantage of if Watson improves, cause we do use (mumbles) tech at it's core from, on the audio perspective. Applying some of our own techniques to basically improve the accuracy of certain words that matter most to the enterprise. One of the things we've noticed is it's an entirely collaborative relationship with our, with our, with our enterprise clients but really partners. Because what works well for one, may not work well for another. One thing about cognitive is it really depends on the end user as to if this is a good idea or not. Or if this will work for their use case, just based on error, as you pointed out. >> So, to your point, you're identifying enterprise use cases and then tuning the system. Building solutions, essentially, for those use cases. >> Andy: Absolutely. >> Now, you said 22 year IBM platinum partner, so you obviously started well before this so-called digital transformation. >> Andy: Yes. >> You see digital transformation as, you know, revolutionary, or is it more of an evolution of your business? >> I'd definitely say it's an evolution. I think, you know, a lot of the industry buzz words out there are all around, you know, transformation or transition, but for us it's been completely additive. You know, at the end of the day we're just doing what our clients want, you know. And, we're still continuing the core part of our business around modernizing and optimizing IT infrastructure, tech sacks in the data center, also infrastructure service in the cloud. Also, up through the middle where it's still really as strong as ever. I mean, in fact that business has actually been very much reinforced by some of these capabilities that we brought in on the digital development side. Because, at the end of the day, you know, clients may have a digital unit and they may have, you know, IT, but they're really viewed sort of all in the same. A lot of people try to put 'em in two different buckets bimodal or whatever you want to use. But, you know, inevitably, you know, clients just see a business problem they want to address. >> Yep. >> And, they're saying how can I address it the fastest and the most effectively as relative to what their stakeholders want. And, we just realized early on that we had to have that development capability, be able to build platforms, but also guide out clients. If they don't want one of our platforms, if they don't want video recon or cognitive call center platform, that's perfectly fine. We're more than happy to guide them on how to build something similar for their developers with our developers relative to their tech stack, you know, hopefully on the IBM cloud. >> Andy, one of the things you were pointing out that I think is worth highlighting is the digital transformation buzz word, which has been around for a few years now, really is in main stream right now. >> Andy: Yes. >> People are really working hard to figure this out. We're seeing the disruption on the business model side. You mentioned speed and time to market, that's agility. That's not just a technical development term anymore. It's actually business model. It's business related. >> Andy: Yes. >> But there's two axes of things going on. There's the under the hood, heavy lifting stuff that goes on around getting stuff digitally to work. That's IT, security, and you know, Ginni Rometty talks about a lot of that on stage. That's being enterprise grade or enterprise strong. The other one is this digitization of the real world, right? So, that's creative. That requires insights. That requires kind of a different, it's actually probably maybe more fun for some people, but I mean it depends on who your profile is, but you have kind of two spectrums. Cool and relevant and exciting and intoxicating, creative, user experience driven. You mentioned reading meters. >> Andy: Yeah. >> That's the analog world. >> Andy: Yes. >> That's actually space. That's the world. That's like, you got the sky you got the meter. >> Andy: Yeah. >> You got physical impressions. This is the digitization of our world. What's your perspective? How do you talk to customers when they say, "Hey I want to digitize my business." >> Andy: Mm hmm. >> How does it go? What do you say? I mean, do you break it down into those axes? Do you go, did they see it that way? Can you share some color on this digital transformation of digitizing business? >> Yeah, so I mean it really depends on, I think, it normally it has to do with interacting with some other stakeholders in a certain way, you know. I think from our perspective it really is about, you know, how they want to interface. And, most of the time you pointed out speed. Speed I think is the number one reason why people are doing the digital transformation. It's not really about cost or these other factors. It's how quickly can I adjust my business model so I can win in the market place? And, you know, I think I pointed this earlier, but like, you know IOT is huge now. It covers what I call three out of the five senses in my mind. It covers basically touch, smell and taste in many ways. And, for us, I think we're basically trying to help them even get beyond IOT with video. Video really covers, you know, sight and hearing as well. It covers all the five senses. And, then you take that and figure out how do I digitize that experience and be able to allow you to interact with your stakeholders. Whether it be your customers, your suppliers or your partners out in the market place. And, then based on that we'll take these building blocks on how we, you know, extend the experience, and work with them on their specific use case. >> So, you got to ingest the data, which is the, you know, the images or data coming in. >> Correct. >> Then you got to prep it available for insights. >> Correct. >> And, produce them in, like really fast. >> Andy: Yep. >> That's hard. >> Andy: It is, yeah. >> It's not trivial. >> No it is not, it's not a trivial problem. Yeah, absolutely. And, I think, you know, there's a lot of opportunity here in the space over the next I think two to two to five years. But you're absolutely right. >> John: Yeah. >> I mean it is, it is a challenging. >> And, I want to get your thoughts too, and if you can share your reaction to some of the trends around machine learning, for instance. It's really kind of fueling this democratization. >> Andy: Yeah. >> You mention in the old days it was really hard, there was kind of a black art to, to machine learning or unique special, specialties. And, even data science that's at one level was really, really hard. Now you have common people doing things with visualization. What's the same with machine learning? I mean, you got more data sets coming in. Do you see that trend relevant to what you guys are working on in BlueChasm? >> Absolutely. I think at the core of it, and this wasn't our plan initially three years ago, we didn't realize that this was happen, but every single one of the platforms or prototypes or apps we've built, they all incorporate some degree of machine learning, deep learning within it's core. And, this is primarily just driven by I think what, to give a client a unique platform or a unique service on the market. Because, much of the base digitization, I mean Ginny likes to talk a lot about, you know, the key to being, differentiating yourself from digital world is being cognitive. And, we've seen this really play out in practice. And, I think what's changed, as you pointed out is, that it's easily accessible now to sort of the common man, as I put it. In years past, you really had to have people that are highly specialized. You build your own product. But now through open source- >> There's building blocks out there. >> Absolutely. >> You can just take an open source library and say hey, and then tweak the machine learning. >> Absolutely. And, the ramp up time has come down, you know, dramatically, even for our developers. Just watching them work. I mean, the prototype to video recon was built over the course of a weekend by one of our developers. He just came in one Monday and said, you know, is this, is this interesting? >> He's fired. >> Exactly. And, we were like, yes I think this is interesting. >> Well this is the whole inspiration thing that I talk about, the creativity. This is the two axes, right? >> You try to do that in the old days, I got to get a server provision. >> Andy: Yeah. >> I'm done. >> Andy: Right. >> You know, I'm going to go have a a beer. Whatever. I mean, there's almost an abandonment going on. We talked to Indiegogo yesterday about how they're funding companies. >> Andy: Yeah. >> You have this new creative action. >> Andy: Mm hmm. >> So you guys are seeing that. Any other examples you can share in terms of color around this kind of innovation? >> Yeah, so we, at BlueChasm we try to let our developers sort of have free reign over what they like to create. So video recon was spawned literally by a, on a side project, you know as with a lot of companies. It was, you know, a platform that sort of evolved into a commercial product, almost by accident, right? And, we've had others that have been anchored by like what clients had done, but like around the cognitive call center, which basically takes phone calls that are recorded and then basically transcribes and makes them easily searchable for audit reasons, training reasons, etcetera. Same kind of idea. We built things around like cognitive drones. A lot of folks are trying to do things with drones. Drones themselves aren't really not novel anymore, but being able to utilize them to collect data in unique ways, I think that industry is definitely evolving. We've built other things like, what I call the minority report board, after the scene in the movie where the board sort of looks at you and then based on what it sees of you, of different data points, it shows you an ad or shows you a piece of visual content to allow you to interact. >> John: Yeah. >> I mean, these are, these are examples. You know, we have others. But, you know we've just seen like in this organization if we allow creativity to sort of reign, you know, have free reign. We're able to sort of bring it back in along with some of the strengths of core Mark Three about being (mumbles). >> I mean the cognitive is really interesting. It's a programmatic approach to life. And, if you think about it, it's like if you have this collective intelligence with the data, you could offer an augmented reality experience- >> Andy: Yes. >> To anybody now, based upon what you're doin'. >> Absolutely. So I mean, I think that the toughest part I think right now is figuring out which of the opportunities to pursue. Because, there are so many out there and everyone has some interest in some degree, you know. You have to figure out how to prioritize about, you know, which, which of the ones you want to address first. >> John: Yeah. >> And, in what order. Because, what we've noticed is that a lot of these are building blocks that lead to other greater and greater platform concepts, and part of the challenge is figuring out what order you want to actually build these into. And, through you know, microservices through retainerization all these, you know, awesome evolutions as far as like with cloud and infrastructure technology, you're really able to piece together these pieces to build amazing (mumbles) quickly. >> The cloud native stuff is booming right now. >> Yeah. >> It's really fun to watch. Microservices, (mumbles), this orchestration, composability is just kickin' ass. >> Absolutely. >> And, all your clients are basically becoming software companies. They're takin' your services and building out their own sas capabilities. >> Andy: Right. >> Right? >> Without a doubt. I mean, you know the cloud (mumbles), container revolution's been significant for us. I mean we, we added the audio component to video recon based on some of the work we've been doing on the call center side. It was almost by accident. And, we were able to really put them together in a day because we were able to basically easily compose the overall platform at that time, or the prototype of the platform at that time just by linking together those services. So, we see this as a pattern moving forward. >> Andy, thanks for coming on The Cube. Really appreciate it. In the quick 30 seconds, what are you doin' here at the show? What are you guys talkin' about? What's some of the activity? Coolest thing you're seeing? Share some insight, what's going on here in Las Vegas. Share some perspective. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, we have a booth here in Vegas. We're demoing some of the platforms we talked about: video recon, cognitive call center. We're at booth six 87, which is toward the center back of the expo center. We have four break outs that we'll be doing as well. Talking about some of these concepts, as well as some of our projects that involve, you know, modernization of the data center as well. So, the true what I call IBM full stack. >> And, for the folks that aren't here watching, is there, the website address? Where can they go to get more information? >> Yeah, absolutely. You can go to Mark Three sys. M A R K triple I S Y S dot com, which is our website. If you want to learn a little bit more about video recon you can go to video recon dot I O. We have a very simple demo page, but you know, if you're interested in learning more or you want to explore if we can accommodate your specific use case, please feel free to reach out to me. Also, Mark Three systems, M A R K triple I systems at Twitter as well, and I can get back to you. >> Well, you know we're going to follow up with you. Going to get all of our Cube videos into the cognitive era. You'll be seeing us, pinging you online for that. >> Yeah. >> Love the video recon, just great. BlueChasm, great, great initiative. Congratulations on that. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for comin' on. Its The Cube live here in Las Vegas. Day two of coverage, wall to wall. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay with us. More great interviews after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE, covering Interconnect 2017, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back, everyone. We're live in Las Vegas for the CUBE's coverage of Interconnect 2017. This is three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Stay with us for the entire event. This is day two. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante and Esques' Willie Tejada, who's the IBM chief developer advocate at IBM. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you, guys. I'm really pleased to be here. >> So, love to have you on because all we do is talk about developers and what's in it for them, who's doing what, who's got the better cloud, who's enterprise ready, all that good stuff, commentating. But I love Ginny Rometty's conversation today because we just had Google Next, covered Amazon events, all the cloud events, and the thing that's been on our agenda, we've been really looking at this, is cloud readiness in the enterprise. And this is really kind of fundamental, what she was talking about, enterprise strong, data first, cognitive to the core, which kind of is their three pillars, but this is the, where the action is right now. >> Yeah you know for developers that's exactly true. You know, what you outlined is really this idea of basically there's three kind of core architectures, right? It's cloud, number one, followed by data layered on top of that, and essentially AIR cognitive on top. And what that means actually for the developer communities is that there's a new set of skill sets that are probably moving faster than we have ever seen before, right? And a lot of it's actually driven by this explosion of data, and so um, one of the things that we think that there's going to be a huge shortage of and there is a huge shortage of, is data scientists and cognitive developers. Because in those layers, what we've seen is that more and more, you operate on a data first model and by that, by just that definition, what you need to know about data is pushing towards a practitioner level of data scientists and the reality is that we think that type of core skill sets going to be needed across all of the developer communities. >> So take a minute to describe what will define a cognitive developer >> Tajeda: Sure, >> And what that, and the nuance behind it, because obviously the developers are doing really cool creative things, and then you've got the heart under the hood, production work loads and IT so where is the cognitive developer fit in those spectrums and what is the core definition from your standpoint? >> Yeah you know, the cognitive developer really is a person who's actually participating in actually the generation of a system that's fully cognitive, so you know, adding a cognitive feature is one thing, but actually building a full cognitive system is something different. You know if I use a comparison, think about how some of these roles in big data came about big data came, but we didn't have things like a data scientist, we didn't have a data engineer, and it kind of came after the fact the roles that were actually defined. Now we're onto these new cognitive systems where everything from, you have to train the system you have to have explicit knowledge of what the APIs actually do and you have to have infrastructure that actually curates data that continues this training along those lines. So you know the cognitive developers, really one that's participating in that particular ecosystem now what's really important though about that is they are usually programming in the language that their usually programming in. Whether it be Java, data scientists are using r or they're using Python, but the reality is that a cognitive developer's is that one that's applying those cognitive properties to their system that they're developing. >> So this is interesting, you mentioned the cognitive develop new tools and stuff, but there's some really good trends out there that are, that's the wind at the back of the developer right now. Cloud native is a booming trend that's actually phenomenal, you're seeing container madness continue, you've got micro services, all with kubernetes under the hood so there's some cool exciting things in the trend lines, can you unpack that for us and what this means to the developers, how does it impact their world? I mean we hear composability, lego blocks most developers know API economy is here, but now you've got these new tail winds, these new trends, >> Tajeda: Yep >> What's the, what are they, add to at, what's the impact to the developer? >> Well we talked about the new container service based on kubernetes that's allowing us to actually build to tremendous scale, and really simplify that type of development actually when you're doing native cloud development. You know, probably the most important things for developers is just accessibility of all these pieces, of course it's driven by open source, but you know if you want to learn these technologies if you want to participate and experiment with these technologies, they've never been more available than they actually are today. >> Vellante: So if I may, so Tanmay is a good example of a cognitive developer >> Absolutely. >> He's all cloud native, he's all cognitive, >> Nice shout out from the CEO today >> Yeah. >> He's also an algoithmist, you know self declared algorithmist, >> I can't even say that, >> Okay so here's Tanmay, he's never going to know anything else, right? But now, of you're a sort of mainstream developer, what do you do, you know? Where do you get the skills, what do you recommend that that individual does, and how do they get up the ramp? >> So you know, lots of times as you know the developer's learnings is not like kind of a linear pattern, right? They go to blogs basically they go and pull basic a library for them to >> Vellante: They figure it out. >> Along those lines, they go to a meet up or a hack from that stand point that's based on cognitive development and you know, so they should just go about what they normally do kind of along those lines, and then you know I think basically there's am advancement because ultimately we're publishing these things called journeys, which are really kind of use cases in the cognitive based environment so as an example, we might publish a journey on a cognitive retail chat bot, and it will combine a variety of these micro services that Watson's actually built on but give them exploration as to how they use the chat bot, how they use a service called discovery, and how they use persistence basically so that essentially they can learn from the data that they actually have and then ultimately if what they want to do is get deeper into it, there's organizations that we partner with where we give them cognitive curricullum that allows them to experience these pieces like top coder you can go on and do a cognitive challenge, right on top coder or you can go to a a cognitive course designed by galvanized one of our partners in relation to skills development. >> So that's interesting about that journey, so when you think about big data we talked about big data before, the sort of point at which at a company like IBM would engage in that journey is somebody who's exploring and maybe kicking the tires a little bit or somebody at a data warehouse that was like killing them, right? Where is, obviously there's a part of that in the cognitive world which is experimental >> Tajeda: Yep >> Is there a sort of analog to the data warehouse sort of disaffection if you will. >> Yeah, you know one of the things that we spend a lot of time on is that every organization that's going to build a cognitive system is looking for cognitive developers and data scientists, you know so essentially, >> Furrier: It's across all industries by the way, >> Absolutely >> Cyber securities to, >> Absolutely so you know, one of the key pieces is what kind of tools do you actually give that data scientist, to mess around with that data set, we provide something called a data science experience, and the idea there is essentially how do you give them an environment that allows them essentially to look into the data very quickly actually have these sets, and really kind of explore the data in a way that they never were capable of actually doing that, you know, those are the types of things that we're actually trying to that a data scientist, so that you can bridge over if you were a data engineer, or you're a business analyst, and you're looking to actually get into data science, you can actually play with some of these big data sets and actually explore what things you can do. >> Willie, I couldn't agree with you more on the whole, how developers learn it's really not a course ware online and the fiscal classroom, maybe they're offering it in college but, it's the practitional world of non linear learning through experience and these journeys are super valuable, and just for a tactical question, where do they find the journeys, or URL? >> What you'll find basically, come April first, we're going to launch a number of them, on developer.ibm.com/accelerate so they'll be focused on several different categories, number one will be just developing in the cloud cloud native, what's a journeys basically that they're kind of like common set ups that you actually need, we'll do, next one's on cognitive analytics where you pull together a set of services along those lines, and as you heard Ginny talk about, you know it's really important that a cloud have knowledge about a domain or an industry and so we'll create some journeys that are actually very industry specific, you know we announced, >> Furrier: Like they're like templates bascially, >> They are, >> People jump start it, not so much a reference implementation, >> Exactly, >> You know what I'm saying, the old days >> But you know, what it's all about is you mentioned this non linear journey that developers don't actually learn fundamentally they have a core thing that they're trying to get actually get done which is, get you help me get my stuff done faster, right? And fundamentally, when you talk about cognitive or data science, we're trying to actually deliver them tool sets or examples that do that. >> So I now got to go to the next level with that question, because it's first of all it's awesome, now how do you intersect that with community? Because now, that's super important because and you might want to take a minute to just do a plug for IBM in terms of the open source goodness you guys are doing because you guys do a great job with open source. >> Tajeda: You know we just hosted a very large, what we believe is, one of the largest open tech meet ups, right before basically InterConnect started, and we had one of the ballrooms actually full, and we talked about our new service we had Jim Basic from the Linux Foundation actually come, he stated a stat which was really interesting in open source which IBM is a large contributor to, that I think the stat that he said was Linux basically has a project now, there's 10,800 new lines of code and 1,800 lines of code that are modified every day, right? >> Furrier: Yeah, >> And that's the community. >> And that's only going to get faster, if you think about like just, the physical media like ssds, in memory, which spark the kernal, >> Vellante: The quantum, >> Linux is going evolve in a radical and killer way I mean, this is just the beginning. >> And to your point about the community, when you think about that advancement at the pace by which basically that software's actually going to move, there's not one organization that can outpace that type of community in the way they actually do it, it doesn't matter what the services actually are so, >> Well the other interesting thing is the impact on human kind, you heard Benny Hoff and Ginny talking about this morning and they were both really emphasizing machine augmented, right? But, it's like a Pac Man device, I mean there's so much human interaction that's being automated today, >> Tajeda: Yeah, abslutely, >> So, and I know IBM obviously big believer in augmentation, but it's hard to predict what things human's are going to be do, be able to do that machine's can't do, any insight on that? >> Yeah you know, I think, we like to use the word cognitive assisted, So when you think about it, I'll give one example, let's say for example in the medical profession, so, if you look at it, in the healthcare industry, about 90 percent of the data in there is not structured data, right? It's all unstructured data, a lot of it is images, so if you take a look at someone basically that's in oncology work taking a look at things like melanoma, the amount of time I think the data set said the amount of time he needed to watch or get trained on to look at all the new papers that were ever published, was probably three weeks basically, if he's thinking about that in a month. The amount of time that that person allocates to actually keeping up with all these particular trade journals is a few hours a week, and so he's constantly behind, this where something like a watson enabled, or a cognitive enabled type of application can help him actually keep up to date with all the new findings and research papers in his particular field, and do something like ingest millions of documents and understand them but actually apply that to his work, so you know what you find is doctors actually utilizing a cognitive assistant powered by Watson to help him do a better diagnosis. >> Will you're an advocate for the chief developer advocate for IBM, talk about for the last couple minutes we have, what's on your plan, we just saw the news yesterday, the 10 million dollar investment to get education out there and bring this cognitive developer category, kind of lift that up and, with Galvanize which we've supported some of those signature moment events with the Cube, where are you going to be out in the field, what's some of your go to market activities how you going to do this, and then talk about the patterns you've seen in the developer make up. >> Yeah, >> Just over the past year, what's changed, what's notable? >> Yeah, so you know what, you know some of the things that we're actually doing is number one, we're we're taking up very large presence in probably nine cities around the world with a very big emphasis on building on data science and cognitive developers, so you know, there's kind of the usual suspects, the San Franciscos, the New Yorks, the Tokyos, the Londons, some presence in Sao Paulo, we're doing Beijing, we recently basically announced a partnership of how we can actually get presence actually there and through that, we're looking actually to bring, basically this presence into those communities, so this idea that we help, actually put forth these journeys but in many cases actually be right in the presence of things, we have, in some cases we have some programs that we're actually spinning up that are all about essentially how we actually do things like IOT Thursdays, or Cognitive Tuesdays where they can actually see actual experts in those particular areas, and just come do office assignments, >> Furrier: Do Throwback Thursday, you hack on a mainframe >> Tajeda: That's it! (laughter) >> That's what they're actually looking at from that standpoint so, so yeah a lot of this stuff basically is just actually getting to some of those folks in a very very intimate way, and like you said actually kind of populating these folks where kind of where they are, and really what that's all about is actually getting the tools and tool sets in the communities that they find and the peer learning that they do, which is real, >> Furrier: Well we'll see you at some of the Galvanize events you guys got goin on we'll certainly see you at Dockercon we got a lot of Cube line ups, for this Spring tour, and the Fall ton of developer activity, the Cloud Native stuff is really an intersection point with big data colliding with cloud IOT and AI and this cognitive is just an accelerant, >> Tajeda: Absolutely, absolutely >> For the cloud, the perfect storm is a good opportunity. >> There's never been more available time in terms of technology, and the technology never moved as fast, >> I was just saying to Tanmay when he was on yesterday, "I wish I could be 13 again", coding is so much more fun now than it was when we were doing it. Well great to have you on Willie, >> Hey thanks very much, it was actually very good visiting with you guys. >> Great insight, insight from the chief developer advocate here at IBM, I'm John Furrier, Steve Vellante stay with us for more coverage, great interviews all day today, and tomorrow, here live in Las Vegas, we'll be right back.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering IBM Chief Data Officer Strategy Summit brought to you by IBM. Now here are your hosts. Day villain Day >> and stew Minimum. We're back. Welcome to Boston, Everybody. This is the IBM Chief Data Officer Summit. This is the Cube, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. Inderpal. Bhandari is here. He's the newly appointed chief data officer at IBM. He's joined, but joined by Bob Picciano who is the senior vice president of IBM Analytics Group. Bob. Great to see again Inderpal. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. So good event, Bob, Let's start with you. Um, you guys have been on the chief data officer kicked for several years now. You ahead of the curve. What, are you trying to achieve it? That this event? Yes. So, >> Dave, thanks again for having us here. And thanks for being here is well, tto help your audience share in what we're doing here. We've always appreciated that your commitment to help in the the masses understand all the important pulses that are going on the industry. What we're doing here is we're really moderating form between chief date officers on. We started this really on the curve. As you said 2014, where the conference was pretty small, there were some people who were actually examining the role, thinking about becoming a chief did officer. We probably had a few formal cheap date officers we're talking about, you know, maybe 100 or so people who are participating in the very 1st 1 Now you can see it's not, You know, it's it's grown much larger. We have hundreds of people, and we're doing it multiple times a year in multiple cities. But what we're really doing is bringing together a moderated form, Um, and it's a privilege to be able to do this. Uh, this is not about selling anything to anybody. This is about exchanging ideas, understanding. You know what, the challenges of the role of the opportunities which changing about the role, what's changing about the market and the landscape, what new risks might be on the horizon? What new opportunities might be on the horizon on we you know, we really liketo listen very closely to what's going on so we can, you know, maybe build better approach is to help their mother. That's through the services we provide or whether that's through the cloud capabilities were offering or whether that's new products and services that need to be developed. And so it gives us a great understanding. And we're really fortunate to have our chief data officer here, Interpol, who's doing a great job in IBM and in helping us on our mission around really becoming a cognitive enterprise and making analytics and insight on data really be central to that transformation. >> So, Dr Bhandari, new, uh, new to the chief date officer role, not nude. IBM. You worked here and came back. I was first exposed to roll maybe 45 years ago with the chief Data officer event. OK, so you come in is the chief data officer in December. Where do you start? >> So, you know, I've had the fortune of being in this role for a long time. I was one of the earliest created, the role for healthcare in two thousand six. Then I have honed that roll over three different Steve Data officer appointments at health care companies. And now I'm at IBM. So I do have, you know, I do view with the job as a craft. So it's a practitioner job and there's a craft to it. And do I answer your question? There are five things that you have to do to get moving on the job, and three of those have to be non sequentially and to must be done and powerful but everything else. So the five alarm. The first thing is you've got to develop a data strategy and data strategy is around, is focused around having an understanding ofthe how the company monetize is or plans to monetize itself. You know, what is the strategic monetization part of the company? Not so much how it monetize is data. But what is it trying to do? How is it going to make money in the future? So in the case of IBM, it's all around cognition. It's around enabling customers to become cognitive businesses. So my data strategy or our data strategy, I should say, is focused on enabling cognition becoming a cauldron of enterprise. You know, we've now realized that impacto prerequisite for cognition. So that's the data strategy piece. And that's the very first thing that needs to be done because once you understand that, then you understand what data is critical for the company, so you don't boil the ocean instead, what you do is you begin to govern exactly what's necessary and make sure it's fit for purpose. And then you can also create trusted data sources around those critical data assets that are critical for the for the monetization strategy of the company's. Those three have to go in sequence because if you don't know what you can do to adequately kind of three, and they're also significant pitfalls if you don't follow that sequence because you can end up pointing the ocean and the other two activities that must be done concurrently. One is in terms ofthe establishing deep partnerships with the other areas of the company the key business units, the key functional units because that's how you end up understanding what that data strategy ought to be. You know, if you don't have that knowledge of the company by making that effort that due diligence, that it's very difficult to get the data strategy right, so you've got to establish those partnerships and then the 5th 1 is because this is a space where you do require very significant talent. You have to start developing that talent and that all the organizational capability right from day one. >> So, Bob, you said that, uh, data is the new middle manager. You can't have an effective middle manager come unless you at least have some framework that was just described. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, when Interpol talks about that fourth initiative about the engagement with the business units and making sure that we're in alignment on how the company's monetizing its value to its clients, his involvement with our team goes way beyond how he thinks about what date it is that we're collecting in the products that you're offering and what we might understand about our customers or about the marketplace. His involvement goes also into how we're curating the right user experience for who we want to win power with our products and offerings. Sometimes that's the role of the chief date officer. Sometimes that's the role of a data engineer. Sometimes it's the role of a data scientist. You mentioned data becoming the new middle management middle manager. We think the citizen analyst is ushering in that from from their seat, But we also need to be able to, from a perspective, to help them eliminate the long tail and and get transparency, the information. And sometimes it's the application developer. So we, uh, we collaborate on a very frequent basis, where, when we think about offering new capabilities to those roles, well, what's the data implication of that? What's the governance implication of that? How do we make it a seamless experience? So as people start to move down the path of igniting all of the innovation across those roles, there is a continuum to the information to using To be able to do that, how it's serving the enterprise, how it leads to that transformation to be a cognitive enterprise on DH. That's a very, very close collaboration >> we're moving from. You said you talked the process era to what I just inserted to an insight era. Yeah, um, and I have a question around that I'm not sure exactly how to formulate it, but maybe you can help. In the process, era technology was unknown. The process was very well, Don't know. Well known, but technology was mysterious. But with IBM and said help today it seems as though process is unknown. The technology's pretty known look at what uber airbnb you're doing the grabbing different technologies and putting them together. But the process is his new first of all, is that a reasonable observation? And if so, what does that mean for chief data officers? >> So the process is, you know, is new in the sense that in terms ofthe making it a cognitive process, it's going to end up being new, right? So the memorization that you >> never done it before, but it's never been done before, right >> in that sense. But it's different from process automation in the past. This is much more about knowledge, being able to scale knowledge, not just, you know, across one process, but across all the process cities that make up a company. And so in there. That goes also to the comment about data being the middle manager. I mean, if you've essentially got the ability to scale and manage knowledge, not just data but knowledge in terms of the insights that the people who are working these processes are coming up in conjunction with these data and intelligent capabilities, that that that that that of the hub right, it's the intelligence system that's had the Hubble this that's enabling all that so that That's really what leads Teo leads to the so called civilization >> way had dates to another >> important aspect of this is the process is dramatically different in the sense that it's ongoing. It's it's continuous, right, the process and your intimacy with uber and the trust that you're developing. A brand doesn't start and stop with one transaction and actually, you know branches into many different things. So your expectations, a CZ that relationships have all changed. So what they need to understand about you, what they need to protect about you, how they need to protect you in their transformation, the richness of their service needs to continue to evolve. So how they perform that task on the abundance of information they have available to perform that task. But the difficulty of being able to really consume it and make use of it is is a change. The other thing is, it's a lot more conversational, right? So the process isn't a deterministic set of steps that someone at a desk can really formulate in a business rule or a static process. It's conversationally changes. It needs to be dis ambiguity, and it needs to introduce new information during the process of disintegration. And that really, really calls upon the capabilities of a cognitive system that is rich and its ability to understand and interact with natural language to potentially introduce other sources of rich information. Because you might take a picture about what you're experiencing and all those things change that that notion from process to the conversational element. >> Dr. Bhandari, you've got an interesting role. Companies like IBM I think about the Theo with the CDO. Not only do you have your internal role, but you're also you know, a model for people going out there. You come too. Events like this. You're trying to help people in the role you've been a CDO. It's, um, health care organization to tell Yu know what's different about being kind of internal role of IBM. What kind of things? IBM Obviously, you know, strong technology culture, But tell us a little bit inside. You've learned what anything surprise you. You know, in your time that you've been doing it. >> Oh, you know, over the course ofthe time that I've been doing the roll across four different organizations, >> I guess specifically at IBM. But what's different there? >> You know, I mean IBM, for one thing, is a the The environment has tremendous scale. And if you're essentially talking about taking cognition to the enterprise, that gives us a tremendous A desperate to try out all the capabilities that were basically offering to our to our customers and to home that in the context of our own enterprise, you know, to build our own cognitive enterprise. And that's the journey that way, sharing with our with our customers and so forth. So that's that's different in in in in it. That wasn't the case in the previous previous rules that I had. And I think the other aspect that's different is the complexity of the organisation. This is a large global organization that wasn't true off the previous roles as well. They were Muchmore, not America century, you know, organizations. And so there's a There's an aspect there that also then that's complexity of the role in terms ofthe having to deal with different countries, different languages, different regulations, it just becomes much more complex. >> You first became a CDO in two thousand six, You said two thousand six, which was the same year as the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure came out and the emails became smoking guns. And then it was data viewed as a liability, and now it's completely viewed as an asset. But traditionally the CDO role was financial services and health care and government and highly regulated businesses. And it's clearly now seeping into new industries. What's driving that? Is that that value? >> Well, it is. I mean, it's, I think, that understanding that. You know, there's a tremendous natural resource in in the information in the data. But there is, you know, very much you know, union Yang around that notion of being responsible. I mean, one of the things that we're very proud of is the type of trust that we established over 105 year journey with our clients in the types of interactions we have with one another, the level of intimacy that we have in their business and very foundation away, that we serve them on. So we can never, ever do anything to compromise that you know. So the focus on really providing the ability to do the necessary governance and to do the necessary data providence and lineage in cyber security while not stifling innovation and being able to push into the next horizon. Interpol mentioned the fact that IBM, in and of itself, we think of ourselves as a laboratory, a laboratory for cognitive information innovation, a laboratory for design and innovation, which is so necessary in the digital era. And I think we've done a really good job in the spaces, but we're constantly pushing the envelope. A good example of that is blockchain, a technology that you know sometimes people think about and nefarious circumstances about, You know, what it meant to the ability to launch a Silk Road or something of that nature. We looked at the innovation understanding quite a lot about it being one of the core interview innovators around it, and saw great promise in being able to transform the way people thought about, you know, clearing multiparty transactions and applied it to our own IBM credit organization To think about a very transparent hyper ledger, we could bring those multiple parties together. People could have transparency and the transactions have a great deal of access into that space, and in a very, very rapid amount of time, we're able to take our very sizable IBM credit organization and implement that hyper ledger. Also, while thinking about the data regulation, the data government's implications. I think that's a really >> That's absolutely right. I mean, I think you know, Bob mentioned the example about the IBM credit organizer Asian, but there is. There are implications far beyond that. Their applications far beyond that in the data space. You know, it affords us now the opportunity to bring together identity management. You know, the profiles that people create from data of security aspects and essentially combined all of these aspects into what will then really become a trusted source ofthe data. You know, by trusted by me, I don't mean internally, but trusted by the consumers off the data. The subject's off the data because you'll be able to do that much in a way that's absolutely appropriate, not just fit for business purpose, but also very, very respectful of the consent on DH. Those aspects the privacy aspect ofthe data. So Blockchain really is a critical technology. >> Hype alleges a great example. We're IBM edge this week. >> You're gonna be a world of Watson. >> We will be a world Watson. We had the CEO of ever ledger on and they basically brought 1,000,000 diamonds and bringing transparency for the diamond industry. It's it's fraught with, with fraud and theft and counterfeiting and >> helping preserve integrity, the industry and eliminating the blood diamonds. And they right. >> It's fascinating to see how you know this bitcoin. You know, when so many people disparaged it is a currency, but not just the currency. You know, you guys IBM saw that early on and obviously participated in the open source. Be, You know, the old saying follow the money with us is like follow the data. So if I understand correctly, your job, a CDO is to sort of super charge of the business lines with the data strategy. And then, Bob, you're job is the line of business managers the supercharge your customers, businesses with the data strategy. Is that right? Is that the right value >> chain? I think you nailed it. Yeah, that's >> one of the things people are struggling with these days is, you know, if they can get their own data in house, then they've also gotta deal with third party. That industry did everything like that. IBM's role in that data chain is really interesting. You talked this morning about kind of the Weather Channel and kind of the data play there. Yeah, you know what? What's IBM is rolling. They're going forward. >> It's one of the most exciting things. I think about how we've evolved our strategy. And, you know, we're very fortunate to have Jimmy at the helm. Who really understands, You know, that transformational landscape on DH, how partnerships really change the ability to innovate for the companies we serve on? It was very obvious in understanding our client's problems that while they had a wealth of information that we were dealing with internally, there was great promise and being able to introduce these outside signals. If you will insights from other sources of data, Sometimes I call them vectors of information that could really transform the way they were thinking about solving their customer problem. So, you know, why wouldn't you ever want to understand that customers sentiment about your brand or about the product or service? And as a consequence to that, you know, capabilities that are there on Twitter or we chat or line are essential to that, depending on where your brand is operating in your branch, probably operating in a multinational space anyway, so you have to listen to all those signals and they're all in multiple language and sentiment is very, very bespoke. It's a different language, so you have to apply sophisticated machine learning. We've invented new algorithms to understand how to glean the signal at all that white noise. You use the weather example as well. You know, we think about the economic impact of climate atmosphere, whether on business and its profound. It's 1/2 trillion dollars, you know, in each calendar year that are, you know, lost information, lost assets, lost opportunity, misplaced inventory, you know, un delivered inventory. And we think we can do a better job of helping our clients take the weather excuses out of business in a variety of different industries. And so we've focused our initiatives on that information integration, governance, understanding new analytics toe to introduce those outside signals directly in the heart and want to place it on the desk of the chief data officer of those who are innovating around information and data. >> My my joke last Columbus. If they was Dell's buying DMC, IBM is buying the weather company. What does What does that say? My question is Interpol. When when Emma happens. And Bob, when you go out and purchase companies that are data driven, what role does the chief data officer play in both em in a pre and post. >> So, you know, I think the one that there being a cop, just gonna touch on a couple of points that Bob Major and I'll address your question directly as well. Uh, in terms of the role of the chief data officer, I think you're giving me that question before how that's he walled. The one very interesting thing that's happening now with what IBM is doing is previously the chief data officer. All at least with regard to the data, Not so much the strategy, but the data itself was internal focused. You know, you kind of worried about the data you had in house or the data you're bringing in now you've gotta worry as much about the exogenous status and because, you know, that's so That's one way that that role has changed considerably and is changing and evolving, and it's creating new opportunities for us. The other is again. In the past, the chief state officer all was around creating a warehouse for analytics and separated out from the operational processes. That's changing, too, because now we've got to transform these processes themselves. So that's, you know, that's that's another expanded role to come back to. Acquisitions emanate. I mean, I view that as essentially another process that, you know, company has. And so the chief data officer role is pretty key in terms of enabling that world in terms ofthe data, but also in terms ofthe giving, you know, guidance and advice. If, for instance, the acquisition isn't that problem itself, then you know, then we would be more closely involved. But if it's beyond that in terms of being able to get the right data, do that process as well as then once you've acquired the company in being able to integrate back the critical data assets those out of the key aspect, it's an ongoing role. >> So you've got the simplest level. You've got data sources and all the things associated with that. And then you've got your algorithms and your machine learning, and we're moving beyond sort of do tow cut costs into this new era. But so hot Oh cos adjudicate. And I guess you got to do both. You've got to get new data sources and you've got to improve this continuous process. By that you talked about how do you guide your customers as to where they put their resource? No. And that's >> really Davis. You have, you know, touching out again. That's really the benefit of this sort of a forum. In this sort of a conference, it's sharing the best practices of how the top experts in the world are really wrestling with that and identifying. I think you know Interpol's framework. What do you do sequentially to build the disciplines, to build a solid corn foundation, to make the connections that are lined with the business strategy? And then what do you do concurrently along that model to continue to operate? And how do you How do you manage and make sure your stakeholders understand what's being done? What they need to continue to do to evolve the innovation and come join us here and we'll go through that in detail. But, you know, he deposited a greatjob sharing his framers of success, and I think in the other room, other CEOs are doing that now. >> Yeah, I just wanted to quickly add to Bob's comment. The framework that I described right? It has a check and balance built into it because if you are all about governance, then the Sirio role becomes very defensive in nature. It's all about making sure you within the hour, you know, within the guard rails and so forth. But you're not really moving forward in a strategic way to help the company. And and that's why you know, setting it up by driving it from the strategy don't just makes it easier to strike that plus >> clerical and more about innovation here. We talked about the D and CDO today meaning data, but really, I think about it is being a great crucible for for disruption in information because you've disruption off. I called the Chief Disruption Office under Sheriff you >> incident in Data's digitalis data. So there's that piece of Ava's Well, we have to go. I don't want to go. So that way one last question for each of you. So Interpol, uh, thinking about and you just kind of just touched on it. He's not just playing defense, you know, thinking more offense this role. Where do you want to take it. What do your you know, sort of mid term, long term goals with this role? >> It's the specific role in IBM or just in general specifically. Well, I think in the case of I B M, we have the data strategy pretty well defined. Now it's all about being able to enable a cognitive enterprise. And so in, You know, in my mind and 2 to 3 years, we'll have completely established how that ought to be done, you know, as a prescription. And we'll also have our clients essentially sharing in that in that journey so that they can go off and create cognitive enterprises themselves. So that's pretty well set. You know, I have a pretty short window to three years to make that make that happen, And I think it's it's doable. And I think it will be, you know, just just a tremendous transformation. >> Well, we're excited to be to be watching and documenting that Bob, I have to ask you a world of washing coming up. New name for new conference. We're trying to get Pepper on, trying to get Jimmy on. Say, what should we expect? Maybe could. Although it was >> coming, and I think this year we're sort of blowing the roof off on literally were getting so big that we had to move the venue. It is very much still in its core that multiple practitioner, that multiple industry event that you experienced with insight, right? So whether or not you're thinking about this and the auspices of managing your traditional environments and what you need to do to bring them into the future and how you tie these things together, that's there for you. All those great industry tracks around the product agendas and what's coming out are are there. But the level of inspiration and involvement around this cognitive innovation space is going to be front and center. We're joined by Ginny Rometty herself, who's going to be very special. Key note. We have, I think, an unprecedented lineup of industry leaders who were going to come and talk about disruption and about disruption in the cognitive era on then. And as always, the most valuable thing is the journeys that our clients are partners sharing with us about how we're leading this inflection point transformation, the industry. So I'm very much excited to see their and I hope that your audience joins us as well. >> Great. We'll Interpol. Congratulations on the new roll. Thank you. Get a couple could plug, block post out of your comments today, so I really appreciate that, Bob. Always a pleasure. Thanks so much for having us here. Really? Appreciate. >> Thanks for having us. >> Alright. Keep right, everybody, this is the Cube will be back. This is the IBM Chief Data Officer Summit. We're live from Boston. You're back. My name is Dave Volante on DH. I'm along.