>>The Cube is live with three different stages here at AW S Reinvent in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. My name's Savannah Peterson, and I gotta tell you, even though the cube has been at AW w s reinvent for over a decade, this is my first year and wow, is it just buzzing in here? >>It's >>Busy, it's crowd, it's loud. >>So exciting to be here with you all. >>We're hearing north of 50,000 people, and I'm hearing hundreds of thousands online. >>No, it's going great. There's lots of buzz, lots of excitement this year, of course, three times a number of people, but it's fantastic. >>Everyone at the same place at the same time. Energy is just pretty special. So it's >>Fun. >>I mean, AWS is a friendly place for security companies and I'm excited to talk about that. >>Let's be here. We have a lot coming for you. We're super excited and if you think about it, it's price, performance, it's data, it's security, and it's solutions for purpose-built use cases. >>Great job. Congratulations. I love the mess. I love how you guys had the theme. I thought his keynote was great and it's great to see Amazon continue to innovate. >>My name is Savannah Peterson. We are the Cube and we are the leading source for high tech coverage.

(bright music) >> Hello everyone, this is Dave Vellante, and you're watching The Cube's coverage of the Dell Technology Summit 2022, with exclusive behind the scenes interviews featuring Dell executive perspectives. And right now we're going to explore Apex, which is Dell's As-a-Service offering, Dell's multi-cloud and Edge strategies, and the momentum around those. And we have news around Project Frontier, which is Dell's vision for its Edge platform. And there's so much happening here. And don't forget, it's Cyber Security Awareness Month. Sam Grocott is here. He's the Senior Vice President of Marketing at Dell Technologies. Sam, always great to see you. How you doing? >> Always great to be here, Dave. >> All right, let's look at cloud. Everybody's talking about cloud Apex, multi-cloud. What's the update? How's it going? Where's the innovation and focal points of the strategy? >> Yeah, yeah. Look, Dave, if you think back over the course of this year, you've really heard us pivot as a company and discussing more and more about how multi-cloud is becoming a reality for our customers today. And when we listen and talk with our customers, they really describe multi-cloud challenges in a few key threads. One, the complexity is growing very, very quickly. Two, they're having a harder time controlling how their users are accessing the various different clouds. And then of course, finally, the cloud costs are growing unchecked, as well. So we like to describe this phenomenon as multi-cloud by design, where essentially organizations are waking up and seeing cloud sprawl around their organization every day. And this is creating more and more of those challenges. So of course at Dell we've got a strong point of view that you don't need to build multi-cloud by default, rather it's multi-cloud by design, where you're very intentional in how you do multi-cloud. And how we deliver multi-cloud by design is through Apex. Apex is our modern cloud and our modern consumption experience. So when you think about the innovation as well, Dave like, we've been on a pretty quick track record here in that, you know, the beginning of this year we introduced brand new Apex backup services that provides that SAS-based backup service. We've introduced, or announced, Project Alpine which is bringing our storage software intellectual property from on-prem, and putting it and running it natively in the public cloud. We've also introduced new Apex cyber recovery services that is simplifying how customers protect against cyber attacks. They can run in Amazon, Azure, AW I'm sorry, Amazon, AWS, Azure, or Google. And then, you know, we are really focused on this multi-cloud ecosystem. We announced key partnerships with SAS providers such as Snowflake, where you can now access our information, or our data, from on-prem through the Snowflake cloud. Or if needed, we can actually move the data to the Snowflake cloud, if required. So we're continuing to build out that ecosystem SAS providers. And then finally I would say, you know, we made a big strategic announcement just recently with Red Hat, where we're not only delivering new Apex container services, but we announced a strategic partnership to build jointly engineered solutions to address hybrid and multi-cloud solutions going forward. You know VMware is going to always continue to be a key partner of ours. At the more recent VMware explorer, we announced new Tansu integration. So Dave, I think in a nutshell, we've been innovating at a very, very fast pace. We think there is a better way to do multi-cloud and that's multi-cloud by design. >> Yeah, we heard that at Dell Technologies World. First time I had heard that multi-cloud by design versus to the default, which is great. Alpine, which is sort of our, what we call, "super cloud in the making." And then of course the ecosystem is critical for any cloud company. VMware of course, you know, top partner. But the Snowflake announcement was very interesting. Red Hat, so seeing that expand. Now let's go out to the Edge. How's it going with the Edge expansion? There's got to be new, speaking of ecosystem, the Edge is like a whole different you know, OT type of ecosystem, >> That's right. Telcos. And what's this new Frontier platform all about? >> Yeah, yeah. So we've talked a lot about cloud and multi-clouds. We've talked about private and hybrid clouds. We've talked about public clouds, clouds and Kronos, Telcos, et cetera. There's really been one key piece of our multi-cloud and technology strategy that we haven't spent a lot of time on. And that's the Edge. And we do see that as that next frontier for our customers to really gain that competitive advantage that is created from their data and get closer to the point of creation where the data lives, and that's at the Edge. We see the Edge infrastructure space growing very, very quickly. We've seen upwards of 300% year-of-year growth in terms of amount of data being created at the Edge. That's almost 3000 exabytes of data by 2026. So just incredible growth. And the Edge is not really new for Dell. We've been at it for over 20 years of delivering Edge solutions. 81% of the Fortune 100 companies in the US use Dell Solutions today at the Edge. And we are the number one OEM provider of Edge Solutions with over 44,000 customers across over 40 industries in things like manufacturing, retail, Edge, healthcare, and more. So Dave, while we've been at it for a long time, we have such a deep understanding of how our customers are using Edge Solutions. Say, the bottom line is the game has got to change. With that growth that we talked about, the new use cases that are emerging, we've got to unlock this new Frontier for customers to take advantage of the Edge. And that's why we are announcing and revealing Project Frontier. And with Project Frontier in its most simplest form is a software platform that's going to help customers and organizations really radically simplify their edge deployments by automating their edge operations. You know, with Project Frontier organizations are really going to be able to manage, and operate their edge infrastructure and application securely, efficiently, and at scale. >> Okay, so it is, first of all, I like the name. It is software, it's a software architecture. So presumably a lot of API capabilities. >> That's right. >> Integration. Is there hardware involved? >> Yeah, so of course you'll run it on a Dell infrastructure. We'll be able to do both infrastructure orchestration through the platform, but as well as application orchestration. And you know, really there's a handful of key drivers that have been really pushing our customers to take on and look at building a better way to do the edge with Project Frontier. And I think I would just highlight a handful of them. You know, freedom of choice. We definitely see this as an open ecosystem out there even more so at the Edge than any other part of the IT stack. You know, being able to provide that freedom of choice for software applications or IoT frameworks, operational technology, or OT for any of their edge use cases, that's really, really important. Another key area that we're helping to solve with Project Frontier is, you know, being able to expect zero trust security across all their Edge applications, from design to deployment, you know, and of course backed by a secure supply chain is really, really important to customers. And then getting that greater efficiency and reliability of operations with a centralized management through Project Frontier and Zero Touch deployments. You know, one of the biggest challenges especially when you get out to the far, far reach of the Frontier, is really IT resources and being able to have that IT expertise. And we built in an enormous amount of automation to help streamline the Edge deployments where you might be deploying a single-edge solution which is highly unlikely, or hundreds or thousands, which is becoming more and more likely. So Dave, we do think Project Frontier is the right Edge platform for customers to build their Edge applications on now, and certain, excuse me, certainly and into the future. >> Yeah. Sam, no truck rolls. I like it. (laughing) And you, you mentioned, you mentioned Zero trust. So we have Mother's Day, you know, we have Father's Day. The kids always ask, "When's Kids' day?" And we of course we say, "Every day is Kids' Day," and every day should be Cybersecurity Awareness Day. So, (laughs) but we have Cybersecurity Awareness Month. What does it mean for Dell? What are you hearing from customers and how are you responding? >> Yeah, yeah. No, there isn't a more prevalent top-of-mind conversation, whether it's the boardroom or the IT departments, or every company is really have been forced to reckon with the cyber security and ransom secure issues out there. You know, every decision in IT department makes, impacts your security profile. Those decisions can certainly, positively, hopefully impact it, but also can negatively impact it, as well. So, data security is really not a new area of focus for Dell. It's been an area that we've been focused on for a long time. But there are really three core elements to cybersecurity and data security as we go forward. The first is really setting the foundation of trust is really, really important across any IT system and having the right supply chain and the right partner to partner with to deliver that. It's kind of the foundation in step one. Second, you need to, of course, go with technology that is trustworthy. It doesn't mean you are putting it together correctly. It means that you're essentially assembling the right piece parts together, that coexist together in the right way. You know, to truly change that landscape of the attackers out there that are going to potentially create risk for your environment, we are definitely pushing and helping to embrace the zero trust principles and architectures that are out there. So finally, while when you think about security it certainly is not absolute all correct. Security architectures assume that, you know, there are going to be challenges, there are going to be pain points, but you've got to be able to plan for recovery. And I think that's the holistic approach that we're taking with Dell. >> Well, and I think too, it's obviously security is a complicated situation. Now with cloud you've got, you know, shared responsibility models, you got that multi-cloud, you got that across clouds, you're asking developers to do more. So I think the key takeaway is as a security pro, I'm looking for my technology partner through their R&D and their, you mentioned, supply chain processes to take that off my plate so I can go plug holes elsewhere. Okay. Sam, put a bow- >> That's right. >> on Dell Technology Summit for us and give us your closing thoughts. >> Yeah, look, I think we're at a transformative point in IT. You know, customers are moving more and more quickly to multi-cloud environments. They're looking to consume IT in different ways, such as as a service. A lot of customers, Edge is new and an untapped opportunity for them to get closer to their customers and to their data. And of course there's more and more cyber threats out there every day. You know, our customers when we talk with them, they really want simple, consistent infrastructure options that are built on an open ecosystem that allows them to accomplish their goals quickly and successfully. And look, I think at Dell we've got the right strategy we've got the right portfolio. We are the trusted partner of choice to help them lead their future transformations into the future. So, Dave, look, I think it's, it's absolutely one of the most exciting times in IT, and I can't wait to see where it goes from here. >> Sam, always fun catching up with you. Appreciate your time. >> Thanks, Dave. >> All right. At Dell Tech World in Vegas this past year, one of the most interesting conversations I personally had was around hybrid work and the future of work, and the protocols associated with that, and the mindset of, you know, the younger generation. And that conversation was with Jenn Saavedra, and we're going to speak to Jenn about this and other people and culture topics. Keep it right there. You're watching The Cube's exclusive coverage of Dell Technology Summit 2022. (bright music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Despite a mixed bag of earnings reports from tech companies, negative GDP growth this past quarter, and rising inflation, the cloud continues its relentless expandtion on the IT landscape. AWS, Microsoft, and Alphabet of all reported earnings, and when you include Alibaba Cloud in the mix, the Big 4 hyperscalers are on track to generate 167 billion in revenue this year based on our projections. But as we said many times on theCUBE, the definition of cloud is expanding and hybrid environments are becoming the norm at major organizations. We're seeing the largest enterprise tech companies focus on solving for hybrid, and every public cloud company now has a strategy to bring their environments closer to where customers workloads live, at data centers, and at the edge. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis will update you on our latest cloud projections and outlook. We'll share some fresh ETR data and commentary on what's happening in the hybrid zone of cloud. Let's start with the market data for the Big 4 hyperscalers. In this chart, we share our Big 4 cloud share for IaaS and PaaS for 2020, 2021, and the first quarter of 2022, and our estimate for 2022 full year and growth. Remember, only AWS and Alibaba report relatively clean IaaS and PaaS figures, whereas Microsoft and Google, they bundled their cloud infrastructure in with their SaaS numbers. We both firms, however, they do give guidance and we use survey data and other tidbits to create an apples to apples comparison, and that's what we show here. For the quarter, the Big 4 approach to 37 billion in revenue as a group. Azure's growth rate is reported by Microsoft but the absolute revenue is not. Azure growth accelerated sequentially by 49% to just over 13 billion in the quarter by our estimates while AWS's growth moderated, sequentially, but revenue still hit 18.4 billion. Azure, by our estimates, now is more than 2/3 the size of AWS's cloud business. Google and Alibaba are fighting for the bronze medal, but well behind the two leaders. Microsoft's Azure acceleration is quite remarkable for such a large revenue base, but it's not unprecedented as we've seen this pattern before with AWS. Nonetheless, the fact that Azure is growing at the same rate as GCP is quite impressive. Now, a couple of other tidbits of information. Amazon, its stock is getting hammered today because of inflation and slowing growth rates at the top line. But AWS continues to beat Wall Street's expectations. A look at Amazon's operating income this quarter tells the story. Amazon overall had operating income of -3.66 billion and AWS's operating income with 6.5 billion. AWS's operating margin grew sequentially from nearly 30% last quarter to 35.3%. That's an astoundingly profitable figure. This is comparable to insanely profitable companies like Oracle and Microsoft. These are software companies with software marginal economics. Is that level of sustainable? Probably not for AWS, but it's eye opening, nonetheless. ETR survey data shows why these companies are doing so well with customers. This chart shows the net score granularity for the Big 4 cloud players. Net score, remember, measures spending momentum by asking customers, are you adopting new? That's the lime green. Increasing spend by 6% or more, that's the forest green. Flats spend is the gray. Spending dropping by 6% or worse is the light pink. And the red is decommissioning the platform. Subtract the reds from the greens and you get a net score which is shown on the right. Anything, by the way, over 40% we consider highly elevated. Now some key points here. Microsoft includes its entire business in this chart, we are including, ETR is including Microsoft's entire business, not just its cloud. Its Azure-only net score is 67%, higher than even AWS's, and that's huge. Google Cloud, on the other hand, while still elevated is well behind the two leaders. Alibaba's data sample in the ETR survey is small and China has had its foot on the neck of Big Tech for a while so we can't read too much into a net score of 26. But notice the replacements in red across the boards single digits for all and low single digits for the two giants, 1% for Amazon and Azure. Very impressive. Now the other really telling reality check is CapEx spending on cloud. CapEx spend tends to be a pretty good indicator of scale. And Charles Fitzgerald who runs the Platformonomics blog spends a fair amount of his time on this topic and we borrowed this chart from a recent post he did, and then we put in some estimates of our own. It shows CapEx spend over time for five cloud companies, the Big 3 US firms that we just talked about, plus IBM and Oracle. And it's always astounding to me to go back to the pre-cloud era and look at IBM. They were in a great position prior to 2006 to really dominate this notion of as a service and the transition to what is now known as cloud. But they really couldn't get their head out of professional services and their outsourcing business. There was some conflicts there as well. And so, you know, IBM you see is that dark blue or black line and spent significantly more than the others way back when, not anymore. Charles is kind of a snark. He loves to make fun of our super cloud concept even though I'm confident it's evolving and is real. But his point above in this chart is right on, the Big 3 US players spend far more on CapEx than IBM and Oracle. He states that Oracle's uptick in CapEx spend puts them past IBM, but the two of them are battling to distance themselves and differentiate from the X-axis. Funny guy, Charles. In its recent earnings report, Amazon stated that around 40% of its CapEx goes to infrastructure and most of that goes to AWS. It expects CapEx to grow this year and around 50% will go toward infrastructure. So we've superimposed our rough estimate of where AWS lands when you subtract out all of Amazon's warehouses for retail. And once again, Microsoft is notable because unlike Amazon, it doesn't have a zillion warehouses to ship products to consumers. And while Google spending is massive, it's mostly on servers to power its ad network. But there's no question that GCP can leverage that infrastructure and the tech behind it, and it does. And by the way, so can everyone else, by the way, leverage all this CapEx spend. We're going to come back to that and talk about super cloud in a moment. Okay, let's close by looking at the ever-expanding cloud landscape. This chart shows a two-dimensional view of the ETR data for cloud computing. On the vertical-axis is net score or spending momentum, and in the horizontal-axis is pervasiveness in the data set. It's like market share within the survey, if you will. The chart insert shows the data for how the dots are plotted on each axis. The red dotted line at 40%, remember, indicates a highly elevated position with net score and significant spending momentum. And the green arrows show the movement for some companies relative to three months ago. Okay, so Microsoft and AWS, they're kind of circled way up in the right-hand corner, very impressive. Just to reduce the clutter, we're not showing AWS Lambda here and some other highly elevated services which would push up, ticked up AWS's net score but it's still really, really good. As is azure, they're both moving solidly to the right relative to last quarters survey. So gaining presence in the data set and presumably in the market as well. Google is, as we've said, well behind and has much work to do. It was announced this past week that the head of sales at Google Cloud, Rob Enslin, is leaving to join UiPath, so some interesting news there. We've highlighted the hybrid zone. Now to the theme of this Breaking Analysis, the ever-expanding cloud, AWS announced that it's completed the launch of 16 local zones in the US and there are 32 more coming across 26 countries. Local zones basically bring cloud infrastructure to regions where there's a lot of IT that isn't going to move. And for proximity and latency reasons, they have to move closer, move the cloud closer, the cloud operating model if you will, closer to the customers. And there's that CapEx build out showing its head again. Now the reason this hybrid zone becomes interesting is you're seeing the large enterprise players finally go after the hybrid cloud in Earnest. It's almost like the AWS outposts announcement in 2018 was a wake up call to infrastructure players like Dell, HPE, and IBM. It took a while, but Oracle is kind of skipping to its own tune, but they're in that hybrid zone as well. IBM had a really good quarter and the Red Hat acquisition seems to be working to support its hybrid cloud strategy. Now VMware several years ago clean up its fuzzy cloud strategy and partnered up with AWS and everyone else. And you see VMware Cloud on AWS doing well as is VMware Cloud, its on-prem offering. Even though it's somewhat lower on the X-axis, based on that green arrow was showing relative to last quarter. It's moving to the right with a greater presence in the data set so that we see that as a positive sign. Now, Dell and HP are interesting. Both companies are going hard after as a service with APEX and GreenLake, respectively. HPE, based on the survey data from ETR, seems to have a lead in spending momentum while Dell has a larger presence in the market, naturally, as a much bigger company. HPE is climbing up on the X-axis, as is Dell, although, not as quickly. And the point we come back to often is the definition of cloud is in the eye of the customer. AWS can say, "No, no that's not cloud." And the on-prem crowd can say, "Ooh, we have cloud too." It really doesn't matter. What matters is what the customer thinks and which platforms they choose to invest. And I'll close by circling back to the idea of super cloud. You are seeing it evolve and you're going to hear more and more about it. Yeah, maybe not the term, many don't like it. We're going to continue to use it as a metaphor for a layer that leverages the CapEx build, the gift that the hyperscalers are providing the industry. This is a real opportunity for the likes of Dell, HPE, IBM, Cisco, and dozens of other companies providing compute and storage infrastructure, networking, security, database, and other parts of the stack. By hiding the underlying complexity of the cloud, dealing with all the API and primitive muck, creating singular experience across on-prem, across clouds, and out to the edge is a definite need from customers. This is a new battle that's shaping up and it's going to be expensive to build and it require an ecosystem cooperating across this API economy, as some like to call it. It's going to have to do that to make it a reality. Now there's a definite, as I say, customer need for this common experience, and in our view, we're seeing it manifest in pockets today and in strategies and in R&D projects, both within startups and established players. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to Stephanie Chan who helps research Breaking Analysis topics. Alex Myerson is on production and he also manages the Breaking Analysis podcast. Kristen and Martin and Cheryl Knight get the word out on social. Thanks to all, including Rob Hof, our editor in chief at SiliconANGLE. Remember these episodes are all available as podcast wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. Check out ETR website at etr.ai. We publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can email me directly at david.vellante@siliconangle.com, or DM me @dvellante or comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante last week's aws re invent brought into focus the degree to which cloud computing generally and aws specifically have impacted the technology landscape from making infrastructure orders of magnitude simpler to deploy to accelerating the pace of innovation to the formation of the world's most active and vibrant infrastructure ecosystem it's clear that aws has been the number one force for change in the technology industry in the last decade now going forward we see three high-level contributors from aws that will drive the next 10 years of innovation including one the degree to which data will play a defining role in determining winners and losers two the knowledge assimilation effect of aws's cultural processes such as two pizza teams customer obsession and working backwards and three the rise of super clouds that is clouds that run on top of hyperscale infrastructure that focus not only on i.t transformation but deeper business integration and digital transformation of entire industries hello everyone and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll review some of the takeaways from the 10th annual aws re invent conference and focus on how we see the rise of super clouds impacting the future of virtually all industries one of the most poignant moments for me was a conversation with steve mullaney at aw aws re invent he's the ceo of networking company aviatrix now just before we went on the cube nick sterile one of aviatrix's vcs looked up at steve and said it's happening now before i explain what that means this was the most important hybrid event of the year you know no one really knew what the crowd would be like but well over twenty 000 people came to reinvent and i'd say at least 25 to 26 000 people attended the expo and probably another 10 000 or more came without badges to have meetings and side meetings and do networking off the expo floor so let's call it somewhere between thirty to forty thousand people physically attended the reinvent and another two hundred thousand or more online so huge event now what nick sterile meant by its happening was the next era of cloud innovation is upon us and it's happening in earnest the cloud is expanding out to the edge aws is bringing its operating model its apis its primitives and services to more and more locations yes data and machine learning are critical we talk about that all the time but the ecosystem flywheel was so evident at this year's re invent more so than any other re invent partners were charged up you know there wasn't nearly as much chatter about aws competing with them rather there was much more excitement around the value that partners are creating on top of aws's massive platform now despite aggressive marketing from competitive hyperscalers other cloud providers and as a service or on-prem slash hybrid offerings aws lead appears to be accelerating a notable example is aws's efforts around custom silicon far more companies especially isvs are tapping into aws's silicon advancements we saw the announcement of graviton 3 and new chips for training and inference and as we've reported extensively aws is now on a curve a silicon curve that will outpace x86 vis-a-vis performance price performance cost power consumption and speed of innovation and its nitro platform is giving aws and its partners the greatest degree of optionality in the industry from cpus gpus intel amd and nvidia and very importantly arm-based custom silicon springing from aws's acquisition of annapurna aws started its custom silicon journey in 2008 and is and it has invested massive resources into this effort other hyperscalers notably microsoft google and alibaba which have the scale economics to justify such custom silicon efforts are just recently announcing initiatives in this regard others who don't have the scale will be relying on third-party silicon providers a perfectly reasonable strategy but because aws has control of the entire stack we believe it has a strategic advantage in this respect silicon especially is a domain where to quote andy jassy there is no compression algorithm for experience b on the curve matters a lot and the biggest story in my view this past week was the rise of the super clouds in his 2020 book with steve hamm frank slootman laid out the case for the rise of data cloud a title which i've conveniently stolen for this breaking analysis rise of the super cloud thank you frank in his book slootman made a case for companies to put data at the center of their organizations rather than organizing just around people for example the idea is to create data networks while people of course are critical organizing around data and enabling people to access and share data will lead to the democracy democratization of data and network effects will kick in this was essentially metcalfe's law for data bob metcalf was the inventor of ethernet ethernet he put forth that premise when we we both worked or the premise when we both worked for pat mcgovern at idg that the value of a network is proportional to the square of the number of its users or nodes on the network thought of another way the first connection isn't so valuable but the billionth connection is really valuable slootman's law if i may says the more people that have access to the data governed of course and the more data connections that can be shared or create sharing the more value will be realized from that data exponential value in fact okay but what is a super cloud super cloud is an architecture that taps the underlying services and primitives of hyperscale clouds to deliver incremental value above and beyond what's available from the public cloud provider a super cloud delivers capabilities through software consumed as services and can run on a single hyperscale cloud or span multiple clouds in fact to the degree that a super cloud can span multiple clouds and even on-premises workloads and hide the underlying complexity of the infrastructure supporting this work the more adoption and the more value will be realized now we've listed some examples of what we consider to be super clouds in the making snowflake is an example we use frequently frequently building a data cloud that spans multiple clouds and supports distributed data but governs that data centrally somewhat consistent with the data mesh approach that we've been talking about for quite some time goldman sachs announced at re invent this year a new data management cloud the goldman sachs financial cloud for data with amazon web services we're going to come back to that later nasdaq ceo adina friedman spoke at the day one keynote with adam silipsky of course the new ceo of aws and talked about the super cloud they're building they didn't use that term that's our term dish networks is building a super cloud to power 5g wireless networks united airlines is really in my view they're porting applications to aws as part of its digital transformation but eventually it will start building out a super cloud travel platform what was most significant about the united effort is the best practices they're borrowing from aws like small teams and moving fast but many others that we've listed here are on a super cloud journey just some of the folks we talked to at reinvent that are building clouds on top of clouds that are shown here cohesity building out a data management cloud focused on data protection and governance hashicorp announced its ipo at a 13 billion valuation building an it automation super cloud data bricks chaos search z-scaler z-scaler is building a security super cloud and many others that we spoke with at the event now we want to take a moment to talk about castles in the cloud it's a premise put forth by jerry chen and the team at greylock it's a really important piece of work that is building out a data set and categorizing the various cloud services to better understand where the cloud giants are investing where startups can participate and how companies can play in the castles that are being built that have been built by the hyperscalers and how they can cross the moats that have been dug and where innovation opportunities exist for other companies now frequently i'm challenged about our statements that there really are only four hyperscalers that exist in the world today aws microsoft google and alibaba while we recognize that companies like oracle have done a really excellent job of improving their clouds we don't consider companies like oracle ibm and other managed service providers as hyperscalers and one of the main data points that we use to defend our thinking is capex investment this was a point that was made in castles in the cloud there are many others that we look at elder kpi size of ecosystem partner acceleration enablement for partners feature sets etc but capex is a big one here's a chart from platform nomics a firm that is obsessed with cl with capex showing annual capex spend for five cloud companies amazon google microsoft ibm and oracle this data goes through 2019 it's annual spend and we've superimposed the direction for each of these companies amazon spent more than 40 billion dollars on capex in 2020 and will spend more than 50 billion this year sure there are some warehouses for the amazon retail business in there and there's other capital expenses in these numbers but the vast majority spent on building out its cloud infrastructure same with google and microsoft now oracle is at least increasing its cap x it's going to spend about 4 billion but it's de minimis compared to the cloud giants and ibm is headed in the other direction it's choosing to invest for instance 34 billion dollars in acquiring red hat instead of putting its capital into a cloud infrastructure look that's a very reasonable strategy but it underscores the gap okay another metric we look at is i as revenue here's an updated chart that we showed last month in our cloud update which at the time excluded alibaba's most recent quarter results so we've updated that very slight change it wasn't really material so you see the four hyperscalers and by the way they invested more than a hundred billion dollars in capex last year it's gonna be larger this year they'll collectively generate more than 120 billion dollars in revenue this year and they're growing at 41 collectively that is remarkable for such a large base of revenue and for aws the rate of revenue growth is accelerating it's the only hyperscaler that can say that that's unreal at their size i mean they're going to do more than 60 billion dollars in revenue this year okay so that's why we say there are only four hyperscalers but so what there are so many opportunities to build on top of the infrastructure that the three u.s giants especially are building as folks are really cautious about china at the moment so let's take a look at what some of the companies that we've been following are doing in the super cloud arena if you will this chart shows some etr data plotting net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and market share or presence in the etr data set on the horizontal axis most every name on the chart is building some type of super cloud but let me start as we often do calling out aws and azure i guess they're already super clouds but they're not building necessarily on top of of of other people's clouds and there are a little bit you know microsoft does some of that certainly google's doing some of that amazon really bringing its cloud to the edge at this point it's not participating in multi-cloud actively anyway aws and azure they stand alone as the cloud leaders and you can debate what's included in azure in our previous chart on revenue attempts to strip out the microsoft sas business but this is a customer view they see microsoft as a cloud leader which it is so that's why its presence on the horizontal axis and its momentum is is you know very large and very strong stronger than even in aws in this view even though it's is revenue that we showed earlier microsoft is significantly smaller but they both have strong momentum on the vertical axis as shown by that red horizontal line anything above that remember is considered considered elevated that 40 percent or above now google cloud it's well behind these two to we kind of put a red dotted line around it but look at snowflake that blue circle i mean i realize we repeat ourselves often but snowflake continues to hold a net score in the mid to high 70s it held 80 percent for a long time it's getting much much bigger it's so hard to hold that and in 165 mentions in the survey which you can see in the inserted table it continues to expand its market's presence on the horizontal axis now all the technology companies that we track of all of them we feel snowflake's vision and execution on its data cloud and that strategy is most is the most prominent example of a super cloud truly every tech company every company should be paying attention to snowflakes moves and carving out unique value propositions for their customers by standing on the shoulders of cloud giants as ceo ed walsh likes to say now on the left hand side of the chart you can see a number of companies that we spoke with that are in various stages of building out their super clouds data bricks dot spot data robots z z scalar mentioned hashi you see elastic confluent they're all above the forty percent line and somewhat below that line but still respectable we see vmware with tanzu cohesity rubric and veeam and many others that we didn't necessarily speak with directly at reinvent and or they don't show up in the etr dataset now we've also called out cisco dell hpe and ibm we didn't plot them because there's so much other data in there that's not apples to apple but we want to call them up because they all have different points of view and are two varying degrees building super clouds but to be honest these large companies are first protecting their respective on-prem turf you can't blame them those are very large install basis now they're all adding as a service offerings which is cloud-like i mean they're behind way behind trying to figure out you know things like billing and they don't nearly have the ecosystem but they're going to fight rightly they're going to fight hard and compete with their respective portfolios with their channels and their vastly improved simplicity but when you speak to customers at re invent and these are not just startups we're talking to we're talking about customers of these enterprise tech companies these customers want to build on aws they look at aws as cloud and that is the cloud that they want to write to now they want to connect they're on-prem but they're still largely different worlds when you when you talk to these customers now they'll fully admit they can't or won't move everything out of their data centers but the vast vast majority of the customers i spoke with last week at reinvent have much more momentum around moving towards aws they're not repatriating as everybody's talking about or not everybody but many are talking about and yeah there's some recency bias because we just got back but the numbers that we shared earlier don't lie the trend is very clear now these large firms that we mentioned these incumbents in the tech industry these big enterprise tech giants they're starting to move in the super cloud direction and they will have much more credibility around multi-cloud than the hyperscalers but my honest view is that aws's lead is actually accelerating the gap in my opinion is not closing now i want to come back and dig into super cloud a little bit more around 2010 and 2011 we collaborated with two individuals who really shaped our thinking in the big data space peter goldmaker was a cell side analyst at common at the time and abi abhishek meta was with bank of america and b of a was transforming its data operations and avi was was leading that now peter was you know an analyst sharp and less at the time he said you know it's going to be the buyers of big data technology and those that apply big data to their operations who would create the most value he used an example of sap he said look you you couldn't have chosen that sap was going to lead an erp but if you could have figured out who which companies were going to apply erp to their business you would have made a lot of money investing so that was kind of one of his investment theses now he posited that the companies that would apply the big data technology the buyers if you will would create far more value than the cloud errors or the hortonworks or a collection of other number of big data players and clearly he was right in that regard now abi mehta was an example of that and he posited that ecosystems would evolve within vertical industries around data kind of going back to frank slootman's premise that in putting data at the core and that would power the next generation of value creation via data machine learning and business transformation and he was right and that's what we're seeing with the rise of super cloud now after the after the first reinvent we published a post seen on the right hand side of this chart on wikibon about the making of a new gorilla aws and we said the way to compete would be to take an industry focus or one way to compete with take an industry focus and become best to breed within that industry and we aligned really with abbey meta's point of view that industry ecosystems would evolve around data and offer opportunities for non-hyperscalers to compete now what we didn't predict at the time but are now seeing clearly emerge is that these super clouds are going to be built on top of aws and other hyperscale clouds makes sense goldman's financial cloud for data is taking a page out of aws it's pointing its proprietary data algorithms tools and processes at its clients just like amazon did with its technology and it's making these assets available as a service on top of the aws cloud a super cloud for financial services if you will they are relying on aws for infrastructure compute storage networking security and other services like sagemaker to power that super cloud but they're bringing their own ip to the table nasdaq and dish similarly bringing forth their unique value and as i said as i said earlier united airlines will in our view eventually evolve from migrating its apps portfolio to the cloud to building out a super cloud for travel what about your logo what's your super cloud strategy i'm sure you've been thinking about it or perhaps you're already well down the road i'd love to hear how you're doing it and if you see the trends the same or differently as we do okay that's it for now don't forget these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen all you do is search breaking analysis podcast you definitely want to check out etr's website at etr.plus for all the survey data remember we publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com you can email me if you want to get in touch with david.velante at siliconangle.com you can dm me at devolante on twitter you can comment on our linkedin posts this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr have a great week stay safe be well and we'll see you next time [Music] you

(bright music) >> Welcome back to the CUBE presents the AWS Startup Showcase The Next Big Thing in cloud startups with AI security and life science tracks, 15 hottest growing startups are presented. And we had a great opening keynote with luminaries in the industry. And now our closing keynote is to get a deeper dive on cracking the code in the enterprise, how startups are changing the game and helping companies change. And they're also changing the game of open source. We have a great guest, Katie Drucker, Head of Business Development, Madrona Venture Group. Katie, thank you for coming on the CUBE for this special closing keynote. >> Thank you for having me, I appreciate it. >> So one of the topics we talked about with Soma from Madrona on the opening keynote, as well as Ali from Databricks is how startups are seeing success faster. So that's the theme of the Cloud speed, agility, but the game has changed in the enterprise. And I want to really discuss with you how growth changes and growth strategy specifically. They talk, go to market. We hear things like good sales to enterprise sales, organic, freemium, there's all kinds of different approaches, but at the end of the day, the most successful companies, the ones that might not be known that just come out of nowhere. So the economics are changing and the buyers are thinking differently. So let's explore that topic. So take us through your view 'cause you have a lot of experience. But first talk about your role at Madrona, what you do. >> Absolutely all great points. So my role at Madrona, I think I have personally one of the more enviable jobs and that my job is to... I get the privilege of working with all of these fantastic entrepreneurs in our portfolio and doing whatever we can as a firm to harness resources, knowledge, expertise, connections, to accelerate their growth. So my role in setting up business development is taking a look at all of those tools in the tool chest and partnering with the portfolio to make it so. And in our portfolio, we have a wide range of companies, some rely on enterprise sales, some have other go to markets. Some are direct to consumer, a wide range. >> Talk about the growth strategies that you see evolving because what's clear with the pandemic. And as we come out of it is that there are growth plays happening that don't look a little bit differently, more obvious now because of the Cloud scale, we're seeing companies like Databricks, like Snowflake, like other companies that have been built on the cloud or standalone. What are some of the new growth techniques, or I don't want to say growth hacking, that is a pejorative term, but like just a way for companies to quickly describe their value to an enterprise buyer who's moving away from the old RFP days of vendor selection. The game has changed. So take us through how you see secret key and unlocking that new equation of how to present value to an enterprise and how you see enterprises evaluating startups. >> Yes, absolutely. Well, and that's got a question, that's got a few components nestled in what I think are some bigger trends going on. AWS of course brought us the Cloud first. I think now the Cloud is more and more a utility. And so it's incumbent upon thinking about how an enterprise 'cause using the Cloud is going to go up the value stack and partner with its cloud provider and other service providers. I think also with that agility of operations, you have thinning, if you will, the systems of record and a lot of new entrance into this space that are saying things like, how can we harness AIML and other emerging trends to provide more value directly around work streams that were historically locked into those systems of record? And then I think you also have some price plans that are far more flexible around usage based as opposed to just flat subscription or even these big clunky annual or multi-year RFP type stuff. So all of those trends are really designed in ways that favor the emerging startup. And I think if done well, and in partnership with those underlying cloud providers, there can be some amazing benefits that the enterprise realizes an opportunity for those startups to grow. And I think that's what you're seeing. I think there's also this emergence of a buyer that's different than the CIO or the site the CISO. You have things with low code, no code. You've got other buyers in the organization, other line of business executives that are coming to the table, making software purchase decisions. And then you also have empowered developers that are these citizen builders and developer buyers and personas that really matter. So lots of inroads in places for a startup to reach in the enterprise to make a connection and to bring value. That's a great insight. I want to ask that just if you don't mind follow up on that, you mentioned personas. And what we're seeing is the shift happens. There's new roles that are emerging and new things that are being reconfigured or refactored if you will, whether it's human resources or AI, and you mentioned ML playing a role in automation. These are big parts of the new value proposition. How should companies posture to the customer? Because I don't want to say pivot 'cause that means it's not working but mostly extending our iterating around their positioning because as new things have not yet been realized, it might not be operationalized in a company or maybe new things need to be operationalized, it's a new solution for that. Positioning the value is super important and a lot of companies often struggle with that, but also if they get it right, that's the key. What's your feeling on startups in their positioning? So people will dismiss it like, "Oh, that's marketing." But maybe that's important. What's your thoughts on the great positioning question? >> I've been in this industry a long time. And I think there are some things that are just tried and true, and it is not unique to tech, which is, look, you have to tell a story and you have to reach the customer and you have to speak to the customer's need. And what that means is, AWS is a great example. They're famous for the whole concept of working back from the customer and thinking about what that customer's need is. I think any startup that is looking to partner or work alongside of AWS really has to embody that very, very customer centric way of thinking about things, even though, as we just talked about those personas are changing who that customer really is in the enterprise. And then speaking to that value proposition and meeting that customer and creating a dialogue with them that really helps to understand not only what their pain points are, but how you were offering solves those pain points. And sometimes the customer doesn't realize that that is their pain point and that's part of the education and part of the way in which you engage that dialogue. That doesn't change a lot, just generation to generation. I think the modality of how we have that dialogue, the methods in which we choose to convey that change, but that basic discussion is what makes us human. >> What's your... Great, great, great insight. I want to ask you on the value proposition question again, the question I often get, and it's hard to answer is am I competing on value or am I competing on commodity? And depending on where you're in the stack, there could be different things like, for example, land is getting faster, smaller, cheaper, as an example on Amazon. That's driving down to low cost high value, but it shifts up the stack. You start to see in companies this changing the criteria for how to evaluate. So an enterprise might be struggling. And I often hear enterprises say, "I don't know how to pick who I need. I buy tools, I don't buy many platforms." So they're constantly trying to look for that answer key, if you will, what's your thoughts on the changing requirements of an enterprise? And how to do vendor selection. >> Yeah, so obviously I don't think there's a single magic bullet. I always liked just philosophically to think about, I think it's always easier and frankly more exciting as a buyer to want to buy stuff that's going to help me make more revenue and build and grow as opposed to do things that save me money. And just in a binary way, I like to think which side of the fence are you sitting on as a product offering? And the best ways that you can articulate that, what opportunities are you unlocking for your customer? The problems that you're solving, what kind of growth and what impact is that going to lead to, even if you're one or two removed from that? And again, that's not a new concept. And I think that the companies that have that squarely in mind when they think about their go-to market strategy, when they think about the dialogue they're having, when they think about the problems that they're solving, find a much faster path. And I think that also speaks to why we're seeing so many explosion in the line of business, SAS apps that are out there. Again, that thinning of the systems of record, really thinking about what are the scenarios and work streams that we can have happened that are going to help with that revenue growth and unlocking those opportunities. >> What's the common startup challenge that you see when they're trying to do business development? Usually they build the product first, product led value, you hear that a lot. And then they go, "Okay, we're ready to sell, hire a sales guy." That seems to be shifting away because of the go to markets are changing. What are some of the challenges that startups have? What are some that you're seeing? >> Well, and I think the point that you're making about the changes are really almost a result of the trends that we're talking about. The sales organization itself is becoming... These work streams are becoming instrumented. Data is being collected, insights are being derived off of those things. So you see companies like Clary or Highspot or two examples or tutorial that are in our portfolio that are looking at that action and making the art of sales and marketing far more sophisticated overall, which then leads to the different growth hacking and the different insights that are driven. I think the common mistakes that I see across the board, especially with earlier stage startups, look you got to find product market fit. I think that's always... You start with a thesis or a belief and a passion that you're building something that you think the market needs. And it's a lot of dialogue you have to have to make sure that you do find that. I think once you find that another common problem that I see is leading with an explanation of technology. And again, not focusing on the buyer or the... Sorry, the buyer about solving a problem and focusing on that problem as opposed to focusing on how cool your technology is. Those are basic and really, really simple. And then I think setting a set of expectations, especially as it comes to business development and partnering with companies like AWS. The researching that you need to adequately meet the demand that can be turned on. And then I'm sure you heard about from Databricks, from an organization like AWS, you have to be pragmatic. >> Yeah, Databricks gone from zero a software sales a few years ago to over a billion. Now it looks like a Snowflake which came out of nowhere and they had a great product, but built on Amazon, they became the data cloud on top of Amazon. And now they're growing just whole new business models and new business development techniques. Katie, thank you for sharing your insight here. The CUBE's closing keynote. Thanks for coming on. >> Appreciate it, thank you. >> Okay, Katie Drucker, Head of Business Development at Madrona Venture Group. Premier VC in the Seattle area and beyond they're doing a lot of cloud action. And of course they know AWS very well and investing in the ecosystem. So great, great stuff there. Next up is Peter Wagner partner at Wing.VX. Love this URL first of all 'cause of the VC domain extension. But Peter is a long time venture capitalist. I've been following his career. He goes back to the old networking days, back when the internet was being connected during the OSI days, when the TCP IP open systems interconnect was really happening and created so much. Well, Peter, great to see you on the CUBE here and congratulations with success at Wing VC. >> Yeah, thanks, John. It's great to be here. I really appreciate you having me. >> Reason why I wanted to have you come on. First of all, you had a great track record in investing over many decades. You've seen many waves of innovation, startups. You've seen all the stories. You've seen the movie a few times, as I say. But now more than ever, enterprise wise it's probably the hottest I've ever seen. And you've got a confluence of many things on the stack. You were also an early seed investor in Snowflake, well-regarded as a huge success. So you've got your eye on some of these awesome deals. Got a great partner over there has got a network experience as well. What is the big aha moment here for the industry? Because it's not your classic enterprise startups anymore. They have multiple things going on and some of the winners are not even known. They come out of nowhere and they connect to enterprise and get the lucrative positions and can create a moat and value. Like out of nowhere, it's not the old way of like going to the airport and doing an RFP and going through the stringent requirements, and then you're in, you get to win the lucrative contract and you're in. Not anymore, that seems to have changed. What's your take on this 'cause people are trying to crack the code here and sometimes you don't have to be well-known. >> Yeah, well, thank goodness the game has changed 'cause that old thing was (indistinct) So I for one don't miss it. There was some modernization movement in the enterprise and the modern enterprise is built on data powered by AI infrastructure. That's an agile workplace. All three of those things are really transformational. There's big investments being made by enterprises, a lot of receptivity and openness to technology to enable all those agendas, and that translates to good prospects for startups. So I think as far as my career goes, I've never seen a more positive or fertile ground for startups in terms of penetrating enterprise, it doesn't mean it's easy to do, but you have a receptive audience on the other side and that hasn't necessarily always been the case. >> Yeah, I got to ask you, I know that you're a big sailor and your family and Franks Lubens also has a boat and sailing metaphor is always good to have 'cause you got to have a race that's being run and they have tactics. And this game that we're in now, you see the successes, there's investment thesises, and then there's also actually bets. And I want to get your thoughts on this because a lot of enterprises are trying to figure out how to evaluate startups and starts also can make the wrong bet. They could sail to the wrong continent and be in the wrong spot. So how do you pick the winners and how should enterprises understand how to pick winners too? >> Yeah, well, one of the real important things right now that enterprise is facing startups are learning how to do and so learning how to leverage product led growth dynamics in selling to the enterprise. And so product led growth has certainly always been important consumer facing companies. And then there's a few enterprise facing companies, early ones that cracked the code, as you said. And some of these examples are so old, if you think about, like the ones that people will want to talk about them and talk about Classy and want to talk about Twilio and these were of course are iconic companies that showed the way for others. But even before that, folks like Solar Winds, they'd go to market model, clearly product red, bottom stuff. Back then we didn't even have those words to talk about it. And then some of the examples are so enormous if think about them like the one right in front of your face, like AWS. (laughing) Pretty good PLG, (indistinct) but it targeted builders, it targeted developers and flipped over the way you think about enterprise infrastructure, as a result some how every company, even if they're harnessing relatively conventional sales and marketing motion, and you think about product led growth as a way to kick that motion off. And so it's not really an either word even more We might think OPLJ, that means there's no sales keep one company not true, but here's a way to set the table so that you can very efficiently use your sales and marketing resources, only have the most attractive targets and ones that are really (indistinct) >> I love the product led growth. I got to ask you because in the networking days, I remember the term inevitability was used being nested in a solution that they're just going to Cisco off router and a firewall is one you can unplug and replace with another vendor. Cisco you'd have to go through no switching costs were huge. So when you get it to the Cloud, how do you see the competitiveness? Because we were riffing on this with Ali, from Databricks where the lock-in might be value. The more value provider is the lock-in. Is their nestedness? Is their intimate ability as a competitive advantage for some of these starts? How do you look at that? Because startups, they're using open source. They want to have a land position in an enterprise, but how do they create that sustainable competitive advantage going forward? Because again, this is what you do. You bet on ones that you can see that could establish a model whatever we want to call it, but a competitive advantage and ongoing nested position. >> Sometimes it has to do with data, John, and so you mentioned Snowflake a couple of times here, a big part of Snowflake's strategy is what they now call the data cloud. And one of the reasons you go there is not to just be able to process data, to actually get access to it, exchange with the partners. And then that of course is a great reason for the customers to come to the Snowflake platform. And so the more data it gets more customers, it gets more data, the whole thing start spinning in the right direction. That's a really big example, but all of these startups that are using ML in a fundamental way, applying it in a novel way, the data modes are really important. So getting to the right data sources and training on it, and then putting it to work so that you can see that in this process better and doing this earlier on that scale. That's a big part of success. Another company that I work with is a good example that I call (indistinct) which works in sales technology space, really crushing it in terms of building better sales organizations both at performance level, in terms of the intelligence level, and just overall revenue attainment using ML, and using novel data sources, like the previously lost data or phone calls or Zoom calls as you already know. So I think the data advantages are really big. And smart startups are thinking through it early. >> It's interest-- >> And they're planning by the way, not to ramble on too much, but they're betting that PLG strategy. So their land option is designed not just to be an interesting way to gain usage, but it's also a way to gain access to data that then enables the expand in a component. >> That is a huge call-out point there, I was going to ask another question, but I think that is the key I see. It's a new go to market in a way. product led with that kind of approach gets you a beachhead and you get a little position, you get some data that is a cloud model, it means variable, whatever you want to call it variable value proposition, value proof, or whatever, getting that data and reiterating it. So it brings up the whole philosophical question of okay, product led growth, I love that with product led growth of data, I get that. Remember the old platform versus a tool? That's the way buyers used to think. How has that changed? 'Cause now almost, this conversation throws out the whole platform thing, but isn't like a platform. >> It looks like it's all. (laughs) you can if it is a platform, though to do that you can reveal that later, but you're looking for adoption, so if it's down stock product, you're looking for adoption by like developers or DevOps people or SOEs, and they're trying to solve a problem, and they want rapid gratification. So they don't want to have an architectural boomimg, placed in front of them. And if it's up stock product and application, then it's a user or the business or whatever that is, is adopting the application. And again, they're trying to solve a very specific problem. You need instant and immediate obvious time and value. And now you have a ticket to the dance and build on that and maybe a platform strategy can gradually take shape. But you know who's not in this conversation is the CIO, it's like, "I'm always the last to know." >> That's the CISO though. And they got him there on the firing lines. CISOs are buying tools like it's nobody's business. They need everything. They'll buy anything or you go meet with sand, they'll buy it. >> And you make it sound so easy. (laughing) We do a lot of security investment if only (indistinct) (laughing) >> I'm a little bit over the top, but CISOs are under a lot of pressure. I would talk to the CISO at Capital One and he was saying that he's on Amazon, now he's going to another cloud, not as a hedge, but he doesn't want to focus development teams. So he's making human resource decisions as well. Again, back to what IT used to be back in the old days where you made a vendor decision, you built around it. So again, clouds play that way. I see that happening. But the question is that I think you nailed this whole idea of cross hairs on the target persona, because you got to know who you are and then go to the market. So if you know you're a problem solving and the lower in the stack, do it and get a beachhead. That's a strategy, you can do that. You can't try to be the platform and then solve a problem at the same time. So you got to be careful. Is that what you were getting at? >> Well, I think you just understand what you're trying to achieve in that line of notion. And how those dynamics work and you just can't drag it out. And they could make it too difficult. Another company I work with is a very strategic cloud data platform. It's a (indistinct) on systems. We're not trying to foist that vision though (laughs) or not adopters today. We're solving some thorny problems with them in the short term, rapid time to value operational needs in scale. And then yeah, once they found success with (indistinct) there's would be an opportunity to be increasing the platform, and an obstacle for those customers. But we're not talking about that. >> Well, Peter, I appreciate you taking the time and coming out of a board meeting, I know that you're super busy and I really appreciate you making time for us. I know you've got an impressive partner in (indistinct) who's a former Sequoia, but Redback Networks part of that company over the years, you guys are doing extremely well, even a unique investment thesis. I'd like you to put the plug in for the firm. I think you guys have a good approach. I like what you guys are doing. You're humble, you don't brag a lot, but you make a lot of great investments. So could you take them in to explain what your investment thesis is and then how that relates to how an enterprise is making their investment thesis? >> Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, the concept that I described earlier that the modern enterprise movement as a workplace built on data powered by AI. That's what we're trying to work with founders to enable. And also we're investing in companies that build the products and services that enable that modern enterprise to exist. And we do it from very early stages, but with a longterm outlook. So we'll be leading series and series, rounds of investment but staying deeply involved, both operationally financially throughout the whole life cycle of the company. And then we've done that a bunch of times, our goal is always the big independent public company and they don't always make it but enough for them to have it all be worthwhile. An interesting special case of this, and by the way, I think it intersects with some of startup showcase here is in the life sciences. And I know you were highlighting a lot of healthcare websites and deals, and that's a vertical where to disrupt tremendous impact of data both new data availability and new ways to put it to use. I know several of my partners are very focused on that. They call it bio-X data. It's a transformation all on its own. >> That's awesome. And I think that the reason why we're focusing on these verticals is if you have a cloud horizontal scale view and vertically specialized with machine learning, every vertical is impacted by data. It's so interesting that I think, first start, I was probably best time to be a cloud startup right now. I really am bullish on it. So I appreciate you taking the time Peter to come in again from your board meeting, popping out. Thanks for-- (indistinct) Go back in and approve those stock options for all the employees. Yeah, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> All right, thank you John, it's a pleasure. >> Okay, Peter Wagner, Premier VC, very humble Wing.VC is a great firm. Really respect them. They do a lot of great investing investments, Snowflake, and we have Dave Vellante back who knows a lot about Snowflake's been covering like a blanket and Sarbjeet Johal. Cloud Influencer friend of the CUBE. Cloud commentator and cloud experience built clouds, runs clouds now invests. So V. Dave, thanks for coming back on. You heard Peter Wagner at Wing VC. These guys have their roots in networking, which networking back in the day was, V. Dave. You remember the internet Cisco days, remember Cisco, Wellfleet routers. I think Peter invested in Arrow Point, remember Arrow Point, that was about in the 495 belt where you were. >> Lynch's company. >> That was Chris Lynch's company. I think, was he a sales guy there? (indistinct) >> That was his first big hit I think. >> All right, well guys, let's wrap this up. We've got a great program here. Sarbjeet, thank you for coming on. >> No worries. Glad to be here todays. >> Hey, Sarbjeet. >> First of all, really appreciate the Twitter activity lately on the commentary, the observability piece on Jeremy Burton's launch, Dave was phenomenal, but Peter was talking about this dynamic and I think ties this cracking the code thing together, which is there's a product led strategy that feels like a platform, but it's also a tool. In other words, it's not mutually exclusive, the old methods thrown out the window. Land in an account, know what problem you're solving. If you're below the stack, nail it, get data and go from there. If you're a process improvement up the stack, you have to much more of a platform longer-term sale, more business oriented, different motions, different mechanics. What do you think about that? What's your reaction? >> Yeah, I was thinking about this when I was listening to some of the startups pitching, if you will, or talking about what they bring to the table in this cloud scale or cloud era, if you will. And there are tools, there are applications and then they're big monolithic platforms, if you will. And then they're part of the ecosystem. So I think the companies need to know where they play. A startup cannot be platform from the get-go I believe. Now many aspire to be, but they have to start with tooling. I believe in, especially in B2B side of things, and then go into the applications, one way is to go into the application area, if you will, like a very precise use cases for certain verticals and stuff like that. And other parties that are going into the platform, which is like horizontal play, if you will, in technology. So I think they have to understand their age, like how old they are, how new they are, how small they are, because when their size matter when you are procuring as a big business, procuring your technology vendors size matters and the economic viability matters and their proximity to other windows matter as well. So I think we'll jump into that in other discussions later, but I think that's key, as you said. >> I would agree with that. I would phrase it in my mind, somewhat differently from Sarbjeet which is you have product led growth, and that's your early phase and you get product market fit, you get product led growth, and then you expand and there are many, many examples of this, and that's when you... As part of your team expansion strategy, you're going to get into the platform discussion. There's so many examples of that. You take a look at Ali Ghodsi today with what's happening at Databricks, Snowflake is another good example. They've started with product led growth. And then now they're like, "Okay, we've got to expand the team." Okta is another example that just acquired zero. That's about building out the platform, versus more of a point product. And there's just many, many examples of that, but you cannot to your point, very hard to start with a platform. Arm did it, but that was like a one in a million chance. >> It's just harder, especially if it's new and it's not operationalized yet. So one of the things Dave that we've observed the Cloud is some of the best known successes where nobody's not known at all, database we've been covering from the beginning 'cause we were close to that movement when they came out of Berkeley. But they still were misunderstood and they just started generating revenue in only last year. So again, only a few years ago, zero software revenue, now they're approaching a billion dollars. So it's not easy to make these vendor selections anymore. And if you're new and you don't have someone to operate it or your there's no department and the departments changing, that's another problem. These are all like enterprisey problems. What's your thoughts on that, Dave? >> Well, I think there's a big discussion right now when you've been talking all day about how should enterprise think about startups and think about most of these startups they're software companies and software is very capital efficient business. At the same time, these companies are raising hundreds of millions, sometimes over a billion dollars before they go to IPO. Why is that? A lot of it's going to promotion. I look at it as... And there's a big discussion going on but well, maybe sales can be more efficient and more direct and so forth. I really think it comes down to the golden rule. Two things really mattered in the early days in the startup it's sales and engineering. And writers should probably say engineering and sales and start with engineering. And then you got to figure out your go to market. Everything else is peripheral to those two and you don't get those two things right, you struggle. And I think that's what some of these successful startups are proving. >> Sarbjeet, what's your take on that point? >> Could you repeat the point again? Sorry, I lost-- >> As cloud scale comes in this whole idea of competing, the roles are changing. So look at IOT, look at the Edge, for instance, you got all kinds of new use cases that no one actually knows is a problem to solve. It's just pure opportunity. So there's no one's operational I could have a product, but it don't know we can buy it yet. It's a problem. >> Yeah, I think the solutions have to be point solutions and the startups need to focus on the practitioners, number one, not the big buyers, not the IT, if you will, but the line of business, even within that sphere, like just focus on the practitioners who are going to use that technology. I talked to, I think it wasn't Fiddler, no, it was CoreLogics. I think that story was great today earlier in how they kind of struggle in the beginning, they were trying to do a big bang approach as a startup, but then they almost stumbled. And then they found their mojo, if you will. They went to Don the market, actually, that's a very classic theory of disruption, like what we study from Harvard School of Business that you go down the market, go to the non-consumers, because if you're trying to compete head to head with big guys. Because most of the big guys have lot of feature and functionality, especially at the platform level. And if you're trying to innovate in that space, you have to go to the practitioners and solve their core problems and then learn and expand kind of thing. So I think you have to focus on practitioners a lot more than the traditional oracle buyers. >> Sarbjeet, we had a great thread last night in Twitter, on observability that you started. And there's a couple of examples there. Chaos searches and relatively small company right now, they just raised them though. And they're part of this star showcase. And they could've said, "Hey, we're going to go after Splunk." But they chose not to. They said, "Okay, let's kind of disrupt the elk stack and simplify that." Another example is a company observed, you've mentioned Jeremy Burton's company, John. They're focused really on SAS companies. They're not going after initially these complicated enterprise deals because they got to get it right or else they'll get churn, and churn is that silent killer of software companies. >> The interesting other company that was on the showcase was Tetra Science. I don't know if you noticed that one in the life science track, and again, Peter Wagner pointed out the life science. That's an under recognized in the press vertical that's exploding. Certainly during the pandemic you saw it, Tetra science is an R&D cloud, Dave, R&D data cloud. So pharmaceuticals, they need to do their research. So the pandemic has brought to life, this now notion of tapping into data resources, not just data lakes, but like real deal. >> Yeah, you and Natalie and I were talking about that this morning and that's one of the opportunities for R&D and you have all these different data sources and yeah, it's not just about the data lake. It's about the ecosystem that you're building around them. And I see, it's really interesting to juxtapose what Databricks is doing and what Snowflake is doing. They've got different strategies, but they play a part there. You can see how ecosystems can build that system. It's not one company is going to solve all these problems. It's going to really have to be connections across these various companies. And that's what the Cloud enables and ecosystems have all this data flowing that can really drive new insights. >> And I want to call your attention to a tweet Sarbjeet you wrote about Splunk's earnings and they're data companies as well. They got Teresa Carlson there now AWS as the president, working with Doug, that should change the game a little bit more. But there was a thread of the neath there. Andy Thry says to replies to Dave you or Sarbjeet, you, if you're on AWS, they're a fine solution. The world doesn't just revolve around AWS, smiley face. Well, a lot of it does actually. So (laughing) nice point, Andy. But he brings up this thing and Ali brought it up too, Hybrid now is a new operating system for what now Edge does. So we got Mobile World Congress happening this month in person. This whole Telco 5G brings up a whole nother piece of the Cloud puzzle. Jeff Barr pointed out in his keynote, Dave. Guys, I want to get your reaction. The Edge now is... I'm calling it the super Edge because it's not just Edge as we know it before. You're going to have these pops, these points of presence that are going to have wavelength as your spectrum or whatever they have. I think that's the solution for Azure. So you're going to have all this new cloud power for low latency applications. Self-driving delivery VR, AR, gaming, Telemetry data from Teslas, you name it, it's happening. This is huge, what's your thoughts? Sarbjeet, we'll start with you. >> Yeah, I think Edge is like bound to happen. And for many reasons, the volume of data is increasing. Our use cases are also expanding if you will, with the democratization of computer analysis. Specialization of computer, actually Dave wrote extensively about how Intel and other chip players are gearing up for that future if you will. Most of the inference in the AI world will happen in the field close to the workloads if you will, that can be mobility, the self-driving car that can be AR, VR. It can be healthcare. It can be gaming, you name it. Those are the few use cases, which are in the forefront and what alarm or use cases will come into the play I believe. I've said this many times, Edge, I think it will be dominated by the hyperscalers, mainly because they're building their Metro data centers now. And with a very low latency in the Metro areas where the population is, we're serving the people still, not the machines yet, or the empty areas where there is no population. So wherever the population is, all these big players are putting their data centers there. And I think they will dominate the Edge. And I know some Edge lovers. (indistinct) >> Edge huggers. >> Edge huggers, yeah. They don't like the hyperscalers story, but I think that's the way were' going. Why would we go backwards? >> I think you're right, first of all, I agree with the hyperscale dying you look at the top three clouds right now. They're all in the Edge, Hardcore it's a huge competitive battleground, Dave. And I think the missing piece, that's going to be uncovered at Mobile Congress. Maybe they'll miss it this year, but it's the developer traction, whoever wins the developer market or wins the loyalty, winning over the market or having adoption. The applications will drive the Edge. >> And I would add the fourth cloud is Alibaba. Alibaba is actually bigger than Google and they're crushing it as well. But I would say this, first of all, it's popular to say, "Oh not everything's going to move into the Cloud, John, Dave, Sarbjeet." But the fact is that AWS they're trend setter. They are crushing it in terms of features. And you'd look at what they're doing in the plumbing with Annapurna. Everybody's following suit. So you can't just ignore that, number one. Second thing is what is the Edge? Well, the edge is... Where's the logical place to process the data? That's what the Edge is. And I think to your point, both Sarbjeet and John, the Edge is going to be won by developers. It's going to be one by programmability and it's going to be low cost and really super efficient. And most of the data is going to stay at the Edge. And so who is in the best position to actually create that? Is it going to be somebody who was taking an x86 box and throw it over the fence and give it a fancy name with the Edge in it and saying, "Here's our Edge box." No, that's not what's going to win the Edge. And so I think first of all it's huge, it's wide open. And I think where's the innovation coming from? I agree with you it's the hyperscalers. >> I think the developers as John said, developers are the kingmakers. They build the solutions. And in that context, I always talk about the skills gravity, a lot of people are educated in certain technologies and they will keep using those technologies. Their proximity to that technology is huge and they don't want to learn something new. So as humans we just tend to go what we know how to use it. So from that front, I usually talk with consumption economics of cloud and Edge. It has to focus on the practitioners. And in this case, practitioners are developers because you're just cooking up those solutions right now. We're not serving that in huge quantity right now, but-- >> Well, let's unpack that Sarbjeet, let's unpack that 'cause I think you're right on the money on that. The consumption of the tech and also the consumption of the application, the end use and end user. And I think the reason why hyperscalers will continue to dominate besides the fact that they have all the resource and they're going to bring that to the Edge, is that the developers are going to be driving the applications at the Edge. So if you're low latency Edge, that's going to open up new applications, not just the obvious ones I did mention, gaming, VR, AR, metaverse and other things that are obvious. There's going to be non-obvious things that are going to be huge that are going to come out from the developers. But the Cloud native aspect of the hyperscalers, to me is where the scales are tipping, let me explain. IT was built to build a supply resource to the businesses who were writing business applications. Mostly driven by IBM in the mainframe in the old days, Dave, and then IT became IT. Telcos have been OT closed, "This is our thing, that's it." Now they have to open up. And the Cloud native technologies is the fastest way to value. And I think that paths, Sarbjeet is going to be defined by this new developer and this new super Edge concept. So I think it's going to be wide open. I don't know what to say. I can't guess, but it's going to be creative. >> Let me ask you a question. You said years ago, data's new development kit, does low code and no code to Sarbjeet's point, change the equation? In other words, putting data in the hands of those OT professionals, those practitioners who have the context. Does low-code and no-code enable, more of those protocols? I know it's a bromide, but the citizen developer, and what impact does that have? And who's in the best position? >> Well, I think that anything that reduces friction to getting stuff out there that can be automated, will increase the value. And then the question is, that's not even a debate. That's just fact that's going to be like rent, massive rise. Then the issue comes down to who has the best asset? The software asset that's eating the world or the tower and the physical infrastructure. So if the physical infrastructure aka the Telcos, can't generate value fast enough, in my opinion, the private equity will come in and take it over, and then refactor that business model to take advantage of the over the top software model. That to me is the big stare down competition between the Telco world and this new cloud native, whichever one yields in valley is going to blink first, if you say. And I think the Cloud native wins this one hands down because the assets are valuable, but only if they enable the new model. If the old model tries to hang on to the old hog, the old model as the Edge hugger, as Sarbjeet says, they'll just going to slowly milk that cow dry. So it's like, it's over. So to me, they have to move. And I think this Mobile World Congress day, we will see, we will be looking for that. >> Yeah, I think that in the Mobile World Congress context, I think Telcos should partner with the hyperscalers very closely like everybody else has. And they have to cave in. (laughs) I usually say that to them, like the people came in IBM tried to fight and they cave in. Other second tier vendors tried to fight the big cloud vendors like top three or four. And then they cave in. okay, we will serve our stuff through your cloud. And that's where all the buyers are congregating. They're going to buy stuff along with the skills gravity, the feature proximity. I've got another term I'll turn a coin. It matters a lot when you're doing one thing and you want to do another thing when you're doing all this transactional stuff and regular stuff, and now you want to do data science, where do you go? You go next to it, wherever you have been. Your skills are in that same bucket. And then also you don't have to write a new contract with a new vendor, you just go there. So in order to serve, this is a lesson for startups as well. You need to prepare yourself for being in the Cloud marketplaces. You cannot go alone independently to fight. >> Cloud marketplace is going to replace procurement, for sure, we know that. And this brings up the point, Dave, we talked about years ago, remember on the CUBE. We said, there's going to be Tier two clouds. I used that word in quotes cause nothing... What does it even mean Tier two. And we were talking about like Amazon, versus Microsoft and Google. We set at the time and Alibaba but they're in China, put that aside for a second, but the big three. They're going to win it all. And they're all going to be successful to a relative terms, but whoever can enable that second tier. And it ended up happening, Snowflake is that example. As is Databricks as is others. So Google and Microsoft as fast as they can replicate the success of AWS by enabling someone to build their business on their cloud in a way that allows the customer to refactor their business will win. They will win most of the lion's share my opinion. So I think that applies to the Edge as well. So whoever can come in and say... Whichever cloud says, "I'm going to enable the next Snowflake, the next enterprise solution." I think takes it. >> Well, I think that it comes back... Every conversation coming back to the data. And if you think about the prevailing way in which we treated data with the exceptions of the two data driven companies in their quotes is as we've shoved all the data into some single repository and tried to come up with a single version of the truth and it's adjudicated by a centralized team, with hyper specialized roles. And then guess what? The line of business, there's no context for the business in that data architecture or data Corpus, if you will. And then the time it takes to go from idea for a data product or data service commoditization is way too long. And that's changing. And the winners are going to be the ones who are able to exploit this notion of leaving data where it is, the point about data gravity or courting a new term. I liked that, I think you said skills gravity. And then enabling the business lines to have access to their own data teams. That's exactly what Ali Ghodsi, he was saying this morning. And really having the ability to create their own data products without having to go bow down to an ivory tower. That is an emerging model. All right, well guys, I really appreciate the wrap up here, Dave and Sarbjeet. I'd love to get your final thoughts. I'll just start by saying that one of the highlights for me was the luminary guests size of 15 great companies, the luminary guests we had from our community on our keynotes today, but Ali Ghodsi said, "Don't listen to what everyone's saying in the press." That was his position. He says, "You got to figure out where the puck's going." He didn't say that, but I'm saying, I'm paraphrasing what he said. And I love how he brought up Sky Cloud. I call it Sky net. That's an interesting philosophy. And then he also brought up that machine learning auto ML has got to be table stakes. So I think to me, that's the highlight walk away. And the second one is this idea that the enterprises have to have a new way to procure and not just the consumption, but some vendor selection. I think it's going to be very interesting as value can be proved with data. So maybe the procurement process becomes, here's a beachhead, here's a little bit of data. Let me see what it can do. >> I would say... Again, I said it was this morning, that the big four have given... Last year they spent a hundred billion dollars more on CapEx. To me, that's a gift. In so many companies, especially focusing on trying to hang onto the legacy business. They're saying, "Well not everything's going to move to the Cloud." Whatever, the narrative should change to, "Hey, thank you for that gift. We're now going to build value on top of the Cloud." Ali Ghodsi laid that out, how Databricks is doing it. And it's clearly what Snowflake's new with the data cloud. It basically a layer that abstracts all that underlying complexity and add value on top. Eventually going out to the Edge. That's a value added model that's enabled by the hyperscalers. And that to me, if I have to evaluate where I'm going to place my bets as a CIO or IT practitioner, I'm going to look at who are the ones that are actually embracing that investment that's been made and adding value on top in a way that can drive my data-driven, my digital business or whatever buzzword you want to throw on. >> Yeah, I think we were talking about the startups in today's sessions. I think for startups, my advice is to be as close as you can be to hyperscalers and anybody who awards them, they will cave in at the end of the day, because that's where the whole span of gravity is. That's what the innovation gravity is, everybody's gravitating towards that. And I would say quite a few times in the last couple of years that the rate of innovation happening in a non-cloud companies, when I talk about non-cloud means are not public companies. I think it's like diminishing, if you will, as compared to in cloud, there's a lot of innovation. The Cloud companies are not paying by power people anymore. They have all sophisticated platforms and leverage those, and also leverage the marketplaces and leverage their buyers. And the key will be how you highlight yourself in that cloud market place if you will. It's like in a grocery store where your product is placed and you have to market around it, and you have to have a good story telling team in place as well after you do the product market fit. I think that's a key. I think just being close to the Cloud providers, that's the way to go for startups. >> Real, real quick. Each of you talk about what it takes to crack the code for the enterprise in the modern era now. Dave, we'll start with you. What's it take? (indistinct) >> You got to have it be solving a problem that is 10X better at one 10th a cost of anybody else, if you're a small company, that rule number one. Number two is you obviously got to get product market fit. You got to then figure out. And I think, and again, you're in your early phases, you have to be almost processed builders, figure out... Your KPIs should all be built around retention. How do I define customer success? How do I keep customers and how do I make them loyal so that I know that my cost of acquisition is going to be at least one-third or lower than my lifetime value of that customer? So you've got to nail that. And then once you nail that, you've got to codify that process in the next phase, which really probably gets into your platform discussion. And that's really where you can start to standardize and scale and figure out your go to market and the relationship between marketing spend and sales productivity. And then when you get that, then you got to move on to figure out your Mot. Your Mot might just be a brand. It might be some secret sauce, but more often than not though, it's going to be the relationship that you build. And I think you've got to think about those phases and in today's world, you got to move really fast. Sarbjeet, real quick. What's the secret to crack the code? >> I think the secret to crack the code is partnership and alliances. As a small company selling to the bigger enterprises, the vendors size will be one of the big objections. Even if they don't say it, it's on the back of their mind, "What if these guys disappear tomorrow what would we do if we pick this technology?" And another thing is like, if you're building on the left side, which is the developer side, not on the right side, which is the operations or production side, if you will, you have to understand the sales cycles are longer on the right side and left side is easier to get to, but that's why we see a lot more startups. And on the left side of your DevOps space, if you will, because it's easier to sell to practitioners and market to them and then show the value correctly. And also understand that on the left side, the developers are very know how hungry, on the right side people are very cost-conscious. So understanding the traits of these different personas, if you will buyers, it will, I think set you apart. And as Dave said, you have to solve a problem, focus on practitioners first, because you're small. You have to solve political problems very well. And then you can expand. >> Well, guys, I really appreciate the time. Dave, we're going to do more of these, Sarbjeet we're going to do more of these. We're going to add more community to it. We're going to add our community rooms next time. We're going to do these quarterly and try to do them as more frequently, we learned a lot and we still got a lot more to learn. There's a lot more contribution out in the community that we're going to tap into. Certainly the CUBE Club as we call it, Dave. We're going to build this actively around Cloud. This is another 20 years. The Edge brings us more life with Cloud, it's really exciting. And again, enterprise is no longer an enterprise, it's just the world now. So great companies here, the next Databricks, the next IPO. The next big thing is in this list, Dave. >> Hey, John, we'll see you in Barcelona. Looking forward to that. Sarbjeet, I know in a second half, we're going to run into each other. So (indistinct) thank you John. >> Trouble has started. Great talking to you guys today and have fun in Barcelona and keep us informed. >> Thanks for coming. I want to thank Natalie Erlich who's in Rome right now. She's probably well past her bedtime, but she kicked it off and emceeing and hosting with Dave and I for this AW startup showcase. This is batch two episode two day. What do we call this? It's like a release so that the next 15 startups are coming. So we'll figure it out. (laughs) Thanks for watching everyone. Thanks. (bright music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Everyone welcome back to the cubes. Coverage of AWS Reinvent Amazon Web services Annual conference theme. Cuba's normally there in person. This year we can't be. It's a virtual event. This is the Cube virtual. I'm your host for the Cube. John Ferrier Tresh Damn Kroger, VP of G M and G m of the high performance computing team at Intel is here in the Cube until a big part of the cube every year. Trish, thank you for coming on Were remote. We can't be in person. Um, good to see you. >>Good to see you. >>I'm really impressed with Reinvent Has grown from kind of small show eight years ago to now kind of a bellwether. And and every year it's the same story. More scale, more performance, lower prices. This is kind of the intel cadence that we've seen of Intel over the years. But high performance computing, which >>has been >>around for a while, has gotten much more mainstream thinking because it's applying now to scale. So I want to get your thoughts and and just set the table real quick. What is high performance computing mean these days from Intel? And has that relate to what people are experiencing >>e high performance computing? Um, yes, it's been traditionally known as something that's, you know, in the in the labs and the government, you know, not used widely. But high performance computing is truly just changing the world is what you can dio Cove. It is a great example of where they've taken high performance computing to speed up the discovery of drugs and vaccines for or cova 19. They use it every day. You know, whether it's making Pampers or Clorox boxes. So they are those bottles so that they, when you drop them, they don't break, um, to designing airplanes and designing, um, Caterpillar tractors. So it is pervasive throughout. And, um, sometimes people don't realize that high performance computing infrastructure is kind of that basics that you use whenever you need to do something with dense compute. >>So what some examples of workloads can you just share? I mean, obviously Xeon processor. We've covered that many times, but I mean from a workload standpoint, what kind of workloads are high performance computing kind of related or unable or ideal for that's out there, >>right? Z on scalable processors are the foundation for high performance computing. If you look at what most people run high performance computing on its see on, and I think that it's so broad. So if you look at seismic processing or molecular dynamics for the drug discovery type work or if you think about, um, open foam for fluid dynamics or, um, you know, different financial trade service, you know, frequency, fats, frequency trading or low. I can't even think of that word. But anyway, trading is very common using high performance computing. I mean, it's just used pervasively throughout. >>Yeah, and you're seeing you're seeing the cloud of clarification of that. I want to get your thoughts. The next question is, you know it's not just Intel hardware. You mentioned Zeon, but HBC in AWS were here. It reinvent. Can you share how that plays out? What's your what's your What's your take on that? Because it's not just hard work and you just take them into explain relationship, >>right? So we definitely have seen the growth of high performance computing in the cloud over the last couple of years. We've talked about this for, you know, probably a decade, and we've definitely seen that shift. And with AWS, we have this wonderful partnership where Intel is not only bringing the hardware like you say, the Z on scalable processors, but we're also having accelerators and then on that whole software ecosystem where we work closely with our I s V and O S v partners. And when we bring, um, not only compilers but also analyzers in our full to tool suite so people can move between an on Prem situation Thio Public cloud like aws. Um, seamlessly. >>So talk about the developer impact. As I say, it's that learning show reinvent. There's a lot of developers here. I'll see mainstream you're seeing, you know, obviously the born in the cloud. But now you're seeing large scale enterprises and big businesses. You mentioned financial services from high frequency trading to oil and gas. Every vertical has a need for cloud and and what, you should be traditionally on premises compute. So you have. You're kind of connecting those dots here with AWS. Um, what is some of the developer angle here? Because they're in the cloud to they want to develop. How does how does the developer, um, engage with you guys on HPC in Amazon, >>Right? Well, there's there's a couple ways. I mean, so we do work with some of our partners eso that they could help move those workloads to the cloud. So an example is 69 which recently helped a customer successfully port a customized version of the in car models for prediction across scales. So they chose the C 59 18 x large instance type because this is what really deliver the highest performance and the lowest price for compute ratio. Another great example is P. K. I, which is a partner out of the UK, has worked with our customers to implement AI in retail and other segments running on Intel Instances of the EEC too. So I think these air just so you could have people help you migrate your workloads into the cloud. But then also, one of the great things I would like to talk about is, um a ws has come out with the parallel cluster, which is an Intel select solution, which really helps, um, ease that transition from on Prem to cloud. >>That's awesome. Um, let's get into that parallel cluster and you mentioned Intel Select Solution program. There's been some buzz on that. Can you take a minute to explain what that is? I >>mean, the HBC has, AH reputation of being hard, and the whole philosophy between behind the Intel Select solution is to make it easier for our customers to run HBC workloads in the cloud or on Prem and with E Intel Select Solution. It's also about scaling your job across a large number of notes, so we've made it a significant investment into the full stack. So this is from the silicon level all the way up to the application level so that we ensure that your application runs best on Intel and we bring together all the everything that you need into. Basically, it's a reference design. So it's a recipe where we jointly created it with our I, C, P and O S V partners and our open source environment for all the different relevant workloads. And so Amazon Web Services is the first cloud service provider to actually verify a service such as Intel Select Solution and this is this is amazing because this truly means that somebody can say it works today on Prem, and I know it will work exactly the same in AWS Cloud. >>That's huge. And I wanna just call that out because I think it's worth noting. You guys just don't throw this around like in the industry like doing these kind of partnerships. Intel's been pretty hard core on the quality, and so having a cloud service provider kind of go through the thing, it's really notable you mentioned parallel cluster um, deal. What is Can you just tie that together? Because if I get this right, the Intel, uh, select solution with the cloud service provider Amazon is a reference designed for how to go on premise or edge or revenue. It is to cloud in and out of cloud. How does this parallel cluster project fit into all this? Can you just unpack that a little bit? >>Right. So the parallel cluster basically, um, it's a parallel cluster until select solution. And there's three instances that we're featuring with the Intel Xeon Scalable processor, which gives you a variety of compute characteristics. So the select solution gives you the compute, the storage, the memory the networking that you need. You know, it says the specifications for what you need to run a non optimal way. And then a WS has allowed us to take some of the C five or some of the instances, and we are on. Three different instances were on the C five, in instance. But that's for your compute optimize work clothes. We're on the in five instance and that's really for a balanced between higher memory per core ratio. And then you have your are five and instance at a W s that's really targeted for that memory intensive workloads. And so all of these are accessible within the single A. W s parallel cholesterol environment on bits at scale. And it's really you're choosing of what you want to take and do. And then on top of that, the they're enabled with the next generation AWS Nitro system, which delivers 100 gigabits of networking for the HBC workloads. So that is huge for HPC. >>I was gonna get to the Nitro is my one of my top questions. Thanks >>for >>thanks for clarifying that. You know, I'm old enough to remember the old days when you have the intel inside the PC a shell of, ah box and create all that great productivity value. But with cloud, it's almost like we're seeing that again. You just hit on some key points you have. Yeah, this is HPC is like memory storage. You've got networking a compute. All these things kind of all kind of working together. If I get that right, you just kind of laid that out there. And it's not an intel Has to be intel. Everything. Your intel inside the cloud now and on premise, which is the There is no on premise anymore. It's cloud operations. If I get this right because you're essentially bridging the two worlds with the chips, you bring on premise which could be edge a big edge or small legend in cloud. Is that right? I mean, this is kind of where this is >>going. Yeah, so I mean, what I think about so a lot of them. The usages for HBC in the cloud is burst capacity. Most HBC centers are 100% not 100% because they have to do maintenance, but 95% utilized, so there is no more space. And so when you have a need to do a larger run or you need thio, you know, have something done quickly you burst to the cloud. That's just what you need to do now. I mean, or you want to try out different instances. So you want to see whether maybe that memory intensive workload would work better? Maybe in kind of that are five in instance, and that gives you that opportunity to see and also, you know, maybe what you want to purchase. So truly, we're entering this hybrid cloud bottle where you can't, um the demand for high performance computing is so large that you've got to be able to burst to the cloud. >>I think you guys got it right. I'm really impressed. And I like what I'm seeing. And I think you talked about earlier the top of the interview, government labs and whatnot. I think those are the early adopters because when they need more power and they usually don't have a lot of big budgets, a little max out and then go to the cloud Whether it's, you know, computing, you know what's going on in the ocean and climate change are all these things that they work on that need massive compute and power. That's a a pretext to enterprise. So if you can't connect the dots, you're kind of right in line with what we're seeing. So super impressive. Thanks for sharing that. Final thoughts on this is that performance. So Okay, the next question is, OK, all great. You're looking good off the tee or looking down the road. Clear path to success in the future. How does the performance compare in the cloud versus on premise? >>It could be well, and that's one of the great things about the Intel select solution because we have optimized that reference designed so that you can get the performance you're used to on Prem in the AWS Cloud. And so that is what's so cool honestly, about this opportunity So we can help you know, that small and medium business that doesn't maybe have this resource is or even those industries that do. And they know they're already a reference using that modeling SIM reference design, and they can now just burst to the cloud and it will work. But the performance they expect >>Trish, great to have you on great insight. Thanks for sharing all the great goodness from Intel and the A W s final thoughts on the on the partnership. We're not in person. And by the way, Intel usually has a huge presence. The booth is usually right behind the cube stage, which you guys sponsor. Thank you very much greater. Always partner with you. Great party. You sponsor the replay, which is always great, and it's always great party and great partnership. Good content. We're not there this year. What's the relationship like? And you take a minute to explain your final thoughts on a Amazon Web services and intel. >>Yeah, I know we have, Ah, Long term partnership 14 plus year partnership with AWS. And I mean, I think it's with the your, um taking Intel Select solution. It's going to be even a richer partnership we're gonna have in the future. So I'm thrilled that I have the opportunity to talk about it and really talk about how excited I am to be able Thio bring Mawr HBC into the world. It's all about the democratization of HBC because HBC changes the world >>well. Tricia, congratulations on the select program with AWS and the first cloud service provider really is a nice directional indicator of what's gonna happen. Futures laid out. Of course. Intel's in front. Thank you for coming. I appreciate it. >>Oh, thank you, John. >>Okay, that's the cubes. Virtual coverage Cube. Virtual. We're not in person. Aws reinvent 2020 is virtual. Three weeks were over the next three weeks, we're gonna bring you coverage. Of course. Cube Live in studio in Palo Alto will be covering a lot of the news. Stay with us from or coverage after this short break. Thank you.

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante snowflake's eye-popping ipo this week has the industry buzzing we have had dozens and dozens of inbound pr from firms trying to hook us offering perspectives on the snowflake ipo so they can pitch us on their latest and greatest product people are pumped and why not an event like this doesn't happen very often hello everyone and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll give you our take on the snowflake ipo and address the many questions that we've been getting on the topic i'm also going to discuss at the end of this segment an angle for getting in on the ground floor and investments which is not for the faint of heart but it's something that i believe is worth talking about now let's first talk about the hottest ipo in software industry history first i want to say congratulations to the many people at snowflake you know the big hitters yeah they're all the news slootman mooglia spicer buffett benioff even scarpelli interestingly you know you don't hear much about the founders they're quite humble and we're going to talk about that in some future episodes but they created snowflake they had the vision and the smarts to bring in operators that could get the company to this point so awesome for them but you know i'm especially happy for the rank and file and the many snowflake people where an event like this it really can be life-changing versus the billionaires on the leaderboard so fantastic for you okay but let's get into the madness as you know by now snowflake ipod at a price of 120. now unless you knew a guy he paid around 245 at the open that's if you got in otherwise you bought at a higher price so you kind of just held your nose and made the trade i guess you know but snowflakes value it went from 33 billion to more than 80 billion in a matter of minutes now there's a lot of finger pointing going on this is this issue that people are claiming that it was underpriced and snowflake left four billion dollars on the table please stop that's just crazy to me snowflakes balance sheet is in great shape thanks to this offering and you know i'm not sure jamming later stage investors even more would have been the right thing to do this was a small float i think it was around 10 percent of the company so you would expect a sharp uptick on day one i had predicted a doubling to a 66 billion dollar valuation and it ended up around 70. now the big question that we now get is is this a fair valuation and can snowflake grow into its value we'll address this in more detail but the short answer is snowflake is overvalued in my opinion right now but it can grow into its valuation and of course as always they're going to be challenges now the other comment we get is yeah but the company is losing tons of money and i say no kidding that's why they're so valuable we've been saying for years that the street right now is rewarding growth because they understand that to compete in software you need to have massive scale so i'm not worried in the least about snowflakes bottom line not yet eventually i'm going to pay much closer attention to operating cash flow but right now i want to see growth i want to see them grow into their valuation now the other common question we get is should i buy when should i buy what are the risks and can snowflake compete with the biggest cloud vendors i'll say this before we get into it and i've said before look it's it's very rare that you're not going to get better buying opportunities than day one of an ipo and i think in this case you will i remember back in 2015 it was i think it was the first calendar for quarter and servicenow missed its earnings and the stock got hit and we had the opportunity to interview frank slootman then ceo of servicenow right after that and i think it's instructive to hear what he said let's listen roll the clip well yeah i think that a lot of the high-flying cloud companies and obviously we're one of them you know we're we're priced to perfection right um and that's that's not an easy place to be for uh for for anybody and you know we're not really focused on that it's it's this is a marathon you know every quarter is one mile marker you can't get too excited about you know one versus the other we're really pacing ourselves we're building you know an enterprise that's going to be here for for a long time you know and after that we saw the stock drop as low as 50 today servicenow is a 450 stock so my point is that snowflake like servicenow is going to be priced to perfection and there will be bumps in the road possibly macro factors or other and if you're a believer you'll have opportunities to get in so be patient now finally i'm going to make some comments later but i'll give you the bumper sticker right now i mean i calculated the weighted average price that the insiders paid on the the s1 that they paid for snowflake and it came out to around six dollars a share and i heard somebody say on tv it was five dollars but my weighted average math got me to six dollars regardless on day one of the ipo the insiders made a 50x return on their investment if you bought on day one you're probably losing some money or maybe about even and there are some ground floor opportunities that exist that are complicated and may be risky but if you're young and motivated or older and have some time to research i think you'll be interested in what i have to say later on all right let's compare snowflake to some other companies on a valuation basis this ought to be interesting so this chart shows some high flyers as compared to snowflake we show the company the trailing 12-month revenue the market cap at the close of the 16th which is the day that snowflake ipod and then we calculate and sort the data on the revenue multiple of the trailing 12 months and the last column is the year-on-year growth rate of the last quarter and i used trailing 12 months because it's simple and it's easy to understand and it makes the revenue multiple bigger so it's more dramatic and many prefer to use a forward revenue uh but that's why i put the growth rate there you can pick your own projected revenue growth and and do the math yourself so let's start with snowflake 400 million dollars in revenue and that's based on a newish pricing model of consumption not a sas subscription that locks you in for a year or two years or three years i love this model because it's true cloud and i've talked about it a while so for a while so i'm not going to dwell on it today but you can see the trailing 12-month revenue multiple is massive and the growth rate is 120 which is very very impressive for a company this size zoom we put zoom in the chart just because why not and and the growth grade is sick so so who knows how that correlates to the revenue multiple but as you can see snowflake actually tops the zoom frothiness on that metric now maybe zoom is undervalued i should take that back let's see i think crowdstrike is really interesting here and as a company that we've been following and talking about quite a bit in my last security breaking analysis they were at a 65 x trailing 12-month revenue multiple and you see how that's jumped since they reported and they beat expectations but they're similar in size to snowflake with a slower growth rate in a lower revenue multiple so there's some correlation between that growth rate and the revenue multiple sort of now snowflake pulled back on day two it was down early uh this morning as you would expect with both the market being off and maybe some profit taking you know if you got in an allocation at 120 why not take some profits and play with house money so snowflake's value is hovering today it actually bounced back is hovering today you're just under 70 billion and that that brings the revenue multiple down a bit but it's still very elevated now if you project 2x growth let's say 100 for next year and the stock stays in some kind of range which i think it likely will you could see snowflake coming down to crowdstrike revenue multiples in 12 months it'll depend of course on snowflakes earnings reports which i'm sure are going to beat estimates for the next several quarters and if if it's growing faster than these others at that time it should command a premium you know wherever the market prices market's going to go up it's going to go down but we'll look at all these companies i think on a relative basis snowflakes still should command a premium at higher growth rates so you can see also in this chart you've got shopify awesome mongodb twilio servicenow and their respective growth rates shopify incredibly impressive [ __ ] and twilio as well servicenow is like the old dog in this mix so that's kind of interesting now the other big question we get is can snowflake grow in to its valuation this is a chart we shared with you a bit ago and it talks to snowflake's total available market and its expansion opportunity there tam expansion this is something we saw slootman execute at servicenow when everybody underestimated that company's value and i'll briefly explain here look snowflake is disrupting the traditional data warehouse and data lake markets data lake spending is relatively small it's under 2 billion but data lakes they're inexpensive and that's what made them attractive the edw market however the enterprise data warehouse market is it's much much larger now traditional edws they're they're big they're slow they're cumbersome they're expensive and they're complicated but they've been operationalized and are critical for companies reporting and basic analytics but they've failed to live up to their promise of the 360 degree view of the customer and real-time analytics you know i had a customer tell me a while ago that my data warehouse it's like a snake swallowing a basketball he gave me example where a change in a regulation this was a financial company it would occur and it would force a change in the data model in their data warehouse and they'd have to ingest all this new data and the data warehouse choked and every time intel came out with a new processor they'd rush out they'd throw more compute at the problem he called this chasing the chips now what snowflake did was to envision a cloud native world where you could bring compute to massive data volumes on an elastic basis and only pay for what you use sounds so simple but technically snowflakes founders and those innovations of that innovation of separating compute from storage to leverage the flexibility of the cloud it really was profound and clearly based on this week's performance was the right call now i'll come back to this in a bit now where we think snowflake is going is to build a data cloud and and you can see this in the chart where your data can be ingested and accessed to perform near real-time analytics with machine learning and ai and snowflake's advantage as we've discussed in the past is that it runs on any cloud and it can ingest data from a variety of sources now there are some challenges here we're not saying that snowflake is going to participate in all these use cases that we show however with its resources now we expect snowflake to create new capabilities organically and then do tuck-in acquisitions that will allow it to attack many more more use cases in adjacent markets and so you look at this chart and the third layer if that's 60 billion it means snowflake needs to extend into the fourth layer because its valuation is already over 60 billion it's not going to get 100 market share so we call this next layer automated decision making this is where real time analytics and systems are making decisions for humans and acting in real time now clearly data is going to be a pretty critical part of this equation now at this point it's unclear that snowflake has the capability to go after this space as much of the data in this area is probably going to live at the edge but snowflake is betting on becoming a data data layer across clouds and presumably at the edge and as you can see this market is enormous so there's no lack of tam in our view for snowflakes that brings us to the other big question around competition everybody's talking about this look a lot of the investment thesis behind snowflakes snowflake is that slootman and his army including cfo mike scarpelli and what they did at servicenow will be repeated scarpelli is this operational guru he keeps the engine running you know with very very tight controls and you know what it's a pretty good bet snoopman and scarpelli and their team i'm not denying that but i will tell you that snowflake's competition is much more capable than what servicenow faced in its early days now here's a picture of some of the key competitors this is one of our favorites the xy graph and on the vertical axis is net score or spending momentum that is etr's version of velocity based on their quarterly surveys now i'm showing july survey october is in the works it's in the field as i speak on the horizontal axis is market share or pervasiveness in the data set so it's a proxy for market share it's it's based on mentions not dollars and and that's why microsoft is so far to the right because they're huge and they're everywhere and they get a lot of mentions the more relevant data to us is the position of snowflake it remains one of the highest net scores in the entire etr survey based not just the database sector aw aws is its biggest competitor because most of snowflake's business runs on aws but google bigquery you can see there is is technically the most capable relative to snowflake because it's a true cloud native database built from the ground up whereas aws took a database that was built for on-prem par excel and brilliantly really made it work in the cloud by re-architecting many of the pieces but it still has legacy parts to it now here's oracle oracle's huge it's slow growth overall but it's making investments in r d we've talked about that a lot and that's going to allow it to hold on to its customers huge base and you can see teradata and cloud era cloudera is a proxy for data lakes which are low cost as i said and cloudera which acquired hortonworks is credited with the commercialization of that whole big datum and hadoop movement and then teradata is in there as well which of course they've been around forever now there are a zillion other database players we've heard a lot of them from a lot of them this week is on that inbound pr that i talked about but these are the ones that we wanted to focus on today the bottom line is we expect snowflakes vertical axis spending momentum to remain elevated and we think it will continue to steadily move to the right now let's drill into this data a bit more here we break down the components of etr's net score and this is specifically for snowflake over time now remember lime green is new adoptions the forest green is spending more relative to last year than more five percent more uh than last year or or greater gray is flat spending the pink is less spending and the bright red is we're leaving the platform the line up top that's netscore which subtracts the red from the green is an indicator of spending velocity the yellow line at the bottom is market market share or pervasiveness in the survey based on mentions now note the the blue text there that's etr's number one takeaway on snowflake two h-20 spending intentions on snowflake continue to trend robustly mostly characterized by high customer acquisition and expansion rates new adoptions market share among all customers is simultaneously growing impressive let's now look at snowflake against the competition in fortune 500 customers now here we show net score or again spending momentum over time for some of the key competitors and you can see snowflakes net score has actually increased since the april survey again this is the july survey this was taken the april survey was taken at the height of the us lockdown so snowflake's net score is actually higher in the fortune 500 than it was overall which is a good proxy for spend because fortune 500 spends more google mongodb and microsoft also also show meaningful momentum growth since the april survey you know notably aws has come off its elevated levels from last october and april it's still strong but that's something that we're going to continue to watch finally let's look at snowflakes market share or pervasiveness within the big three cloud vendors again this is a cut on the fortune 500 and you can see there are 125 respondents within the big three cloud and the fortune 500 and 21 snowflake respondents within that base of 125 and you can see the steady and consistent growth of share not huge ends but enough to give some confidence in the data now again note the etr callout but this trend is occurring despite the fact that each of the big three cloud vendors has its own competitive offering okay but i want to stress this is not a layup for snowflake as i've said this is not servicenow part two it's a different situation so let's talk about that look the competition here is not bmc which was servicenow's target as much as i love the folks at bmc we're talking here about aws microsoft and google amazon with redshift is dialed into this i've said often that they have copycatted snowflake in many cases and last fall at re invent we heard andy jassy make a big deal about separating compute from storage and he took a kind of a swipe at snowflake without mentioning them by name but let's listen to what andy jassy had had to say and then we'll come back and talk about it play the clip then what we did is because we have nitro like i was talking about earlier we built unique instances that have very fast bandwidth so that if you actually need some of those data from s3 for a query it moves much faster than if you just had to leave it there with without that high speed bandwidth instance and so with ra3s you get to separate your storage from your compute if it turns out by the way on your local ssds that you're not using all the ssd on that local ssd you only pay for what you use so a pretty significant enhancement for customers using redshift at the same time if you think about the prevailing way that people are thinking about separating storage from compute letting people scale separately that way as well as how you're going to do this large-scale compute where you move the storage to the a bunch of awaiting compute nodes there are some issues with this that you got to think about the first is think about how much data you're going to have at the scale that we're at but then just fast forward a few years think about how much data you're going to actually have to move over the network to get to the compute and we so look first of all jassy is awesome he stands up at these events for like reinvent for two hours and it connects trends and business to technology he's got a very deep understanding of the tech he's amazing however what aws has done in separating compute and storage is good but it's not as elegant architecturally as snowflake aws essentially has tiered the storage off the cluster to lower the overall costs but you really you can't turn off the compute completely with snowflake they've truly separated compute and storage and the reason is that redshift is great but it's built on an on-prem architecture that was originally an on-prem architecture that they had to redo so when jassy talks about moving the data to compute what he's really saying is our architecture is such that we had to do this workaround which is actually quite clever but this whole narrative about the prevailing ways to separate compute from storage that's snowflake and moving the data's use the word data's plural to the compute it really doesn't apply to snowflake because they'll just move the compute to the data thank you hadoop for that profound concept now does this mean snowflake is going to cakewalk over redshift not at all aws is going to continue to innovate so snowflake had better keep moving fast multi-cloud new workloads adjacent markets tam expansion etc etc etc microsoft they're huge but as usual there's not a lot to say you know about them they're everywhere they put out 1.0 products they eventually get them right because with their heft they get mulligans that they turn into pars or birdies but i think snowflake is going to bring some innovations to azure and that they're going to get good traction there in my opinion now google bigquery is interesting by all accounts it gets very high technical marks google's playing the long game and i would expect that snowflake is going to have a harder time competing in google cloud than it does within aws and what i'm predicting for azure but we'll see the last point here is that many are talking about the convergence of analytic and operational and transaction databases and the thinking is this doesn't necessarily bode well for specialists like snowflake and i would say a couple of things here first is that while it's definitely true you're not seeing snowflake positioning today as responding at the point of transaction to say for instance influence and order in real time and this may have implications at the edge it's going to have a lot of real-time inferencing but we've learned there are a lot of ways to skin a cat and we see integration layers and innovative approaches emerging in the cloud that could address this gap and present opportunities for snowflake now the other thing i'd say is you know maybe that thinking misses something altogether with the idea of snowflake in that third data layer that we showed you in our tam chart that data as a service layer or data cloud which is maybe a giant opportunity that they are uniquely positioned to address because they're cloud agnostic they've got the vision and they've got the architecture to allow them to very simply ingest data and then serve it up to businesses nonetheless we're going to see this battle continue between what i've often talked about these integrated suites and converged databases in the case of oracle converged pipelines in the case of the cloud guys versus the best of breed players like snowflake we talk about this all the time and there really isn't one single answer it's really horses for courses and customer preferences okay well you know i know you've been waiting for for me to tell you about the angles on ground floor investing and you probably think this is going to be crazy but bear with me and i got to caution you this is a bit tongue-in-cheek and it's one big buyer beware but as i said the insiders on snowflake had a 50x return on day one you probably didn't so i want to talk about the confluence of software engineering crypto cryptography and game theory powered by the underlying value of blockchain and we're talking here about innovations around a new internet in a distributed web or d-web where many distributed computers come together to form one computer that guarantees trust between two or more users for a variety of use cases not just financial store like bitcoin but that too and the motivation behind this is the fact that a small number of companies say five or six today control the internet and have essentially co-opted the major protocols like tcp http smtp pop3 etc etc and these people that we're showing here on this chart they're working on these new innovations there are many of them but i just name a few here olaf carlson we he started poly chain capital to invest in core infrastructure around these new computing paradigms this gentleman mark nadal is someone who's working on new d apps tim berners-lee who invented the internet he's got a project called solid at mit and it emphasizes data ownership and privacy and of course satoshi got it all started when she invented bitcoin and created the notion of fractional shares and by the way the folks at andreessen horowitz are actively making bets in this space so you know maybe this is not so crazy but here's the premise if you're a little guy and you wanted to invest in snowflake you couldn't until late in the game if you wanted to invest in the lamp stack directly in the late 90s there was no way to do that you had to wait for red hat to go public or to get a piece of the linux action but in this world that we're talking about here there are opportunities that are not mainstream and often they're based yes on cryptocurrencies again it's dangerous there are scams and and losers but if you do your homework there are actually vehicles for you to get in on the ground floor and you know some of these innovations are going to take off you could get a 50x or 100 bagger but you have to do your research and there's no guarantee that these innovations are going to be able to take on the big internet giants but there are people really smart technologists and software engineers that are young they're mission driven and they're forming a collective voice against a dystopian future because they want to level the playing field on the internet and this may be the disruptive force that challenges today's giants and if your game i would take a look at the space and see if it's worth throwing a few dollars at okay a little tangent from snowflake but i wanted to put that out there snowflake wow closes its first trading week as a company worth 66 billion dollars roughly the same as goldman sachs worth more than vmware and the list goes on i mean what's what's more is there to say other than remember these episodes are all available as podcasts so please subscribe i publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com so please check that out and please comment on my linkedin post or feel free to email me at david.velante at siliconangle.com this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr thanks for watching everyone we'll see you next time you

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Executive Summit. Brought to you by Accenture. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. Part of AW re:invent, of course. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have two guests for this segment. We have Leandro Nunes. He is the Vice President of Product Development at Mastercard. Thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having me. >> And Christine Leong, she is the Managing Director, Accenture Blockchain and Biometrics. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> So sustainability is a hot topic in the industry, in all industry today and especially here at AWS re:Invent. I want to talk to you about circular supply chain which was an idea that germinated in your brain a couple of years ago, but it really just sort of launched a year ago. Tell us more about why you started CSC. >> Sure. We started this actually because, a couple of things. We drink coffee every single day, and as we go into every coffee shop and we think about, well, you see packets saying this is my single origin coffee. I pay extra for this and it's sustainably grown and yet so see news saying that the rain forest is being burned down and animals are being killed. And so about two years ago, I looked at this and I thought, "Wow, how do I know "this is really sustainable, what I'm drinking?" The extra five bucks that I'm paying at my coffee shop, is it really single origin? Is it really going to the right people? Is it really killing the orangutans and the rainforest and then I see a statistic that says, well, for every cup of coffee that we drink, a square inch of rainforest gets burned down. And, I mean, I drink at least five cups of coffee a day. So that's not good, right? So then I thought, and working, actually, with Mastercard at the time, I'm doing and still do actually do a lot of work with Mastercard around identity and biometrics and I thought, "Well, how can we combine "some of these capabilities we have "with Blockchain identity to say, "to put our money where our mouths is?" To change the incentives at the base of the pyramid where farmers, producers, smallholders. If I can say to them that I really want to care that you don't burn the forest down, that you produce in a good way. And they're just trying to survive. They're not bad people, if they are just hand to mouth. That if we can say, right, we'll pay you more as consumers and we know it's definitely going to that right person, then maybe we can help to change some of, you know, and not have the rainforests and not have my guilty cup of coffee, right? >> So even if we don't drink quite as much coffee as you, Christine, we are as a group, consumers are more socially conscious than they ever have been. What are some of the statistics here? That people just care more about this stuff, in general, and they're willing to pay premium for it. >> So, for example, the green trade is estimated, this came out from Unilever, at $2 trillion a year, by next year actually. I mean, that's a staggering statistic and as you see more and more on social media, on literally every platform that you can see. Sustainability is a huge topic with the recent UN climate discussions. I mean, next week in Madrid, it's a big topic that we should all, as responsible responsible consumers, care about. >> So Leandro, what do you see as the benefits of CSC of small actors? >> Well, it's a great point, because when you seriously think about it you usually say a lot about consumers and the big brands. And now we are protecting the big brands, but just think about the sourcing side of the supply chain, right? The small communities, the ones that are growing the coffee, the ones that are the farmers over there or the fishermen. Now, these ones have been there for a while, they are just being kind of squeezed by the whole supply chain, squeezed by the whole business. Right? You think like let's remove a little bit of their margin, let's put it into something else. Now, when you have the circle of supply chain, because consumers in this new generation is so interested in knowing where the product comes from, if they are doing the right thing. Now there's a chance that you can pay them back. It's all about coming up with an incentive model, that's what we see with Mastercard, right? When you create a network like that, which the Blockchain solution is, it's a big network. So how we can gain traction, how we can gain adoption? One thing is, you need to establish incentives through all of the parties that you have in the network. So if you're just taking care of the brand and they're going to say, "Brands, mandate to your suppliers "that needs to do that." This is not going to work. What will work is, what is the incentive the farmers are going to have? What is the sourcing? So, wait a minute. So, don't you think the farmers want to do the right thing? Of course they do, but do they have incentives for that? If it's just a letter, or if it's just someone mandating, they're not going to do it. But if you come with the idea of, "Hey, I pay you back your coffee "or whatever your product you're doing, "you can have a premium. "It's going to be sustainable to your family as well. "Your business can be more profitable." So they will see, "Okay, I want to be part of it." >> So, it's creating incentives for people, for the producers themselves to grow things more sustainably. >> It's all about that, it's not only them. And then you go to the suppliers, you go to the logistics, transportation companies. You give them the visibility. They always complain about, "How can I have the visibility of my supply chain?" "Why?" "Can you create the visibility?" You give the transparency that you create the trust. And if you'll ask people in a supply chain business what the big problem is in supply chain, it's trust. They don't trust each other, but they have to trade things and they don't trust each other. You do business with people you don't trust every single day. It's not a good thing. So, if you bring this visibility, you facilitate this and they see there's an incentive to be also part of it. >> So Christine, what are the kinds of technologies that are powering the CSC and how does it create that trust or cultivate that trust? >> And Leandro is spot on in terms of trust. It's about trusting the people, but trusting the data and trusting the entities that put in some of the data. There are components of Blockchain, of course, that serve the traceability aspects of any of the product. Blockchain also helps with the decentralized identity capability that we've put in. We've made also biometrics for the individual, but this is optional, depending on how, in terms of using it very responsibly. Payments of course, digital payments and having the ability to actually direct payments through the Mastercard rails. And then, of course, with the power of AWS and then hosting it on the cloud and be able to have that anywhere. And the different aspects of including IoT, so we know that let's say for fisheries, this product actually really came from this place, you know, there's sensors, we know that it's kept at the right temperature, therefore insurance payoffs and things like that will be right and tracked all the way through and knowing that the product is really fresh and really kept intact throughout the journey. So a whole bunch of different technology. >> Totally agreed. Projects with Blockchain only tend not to succeed and the reason is because you need to nurture the ecosystem. So how you bring the IoT-- >> Yes. >> To the table, how you bring payments, how you bring AI. You get all these solutions together and then you create what this visibility, that's the trust we need. Companies who are trying to do one side, which is just the Blockchain, they are not going anywhere. The reason that I like their alliance with Accenture and AWS is because we know that we needed to do this end-to-end and this is going to be broader than just talking about Blockchain. >> Rebecca: Yes. >> And it's about the people, because you have to, ultimately it's the consumer and the base of the pyramid, producer. Both have identities, and if we are able to say, "This is the identity of the person," I can then help to influence their livelihoods. >> So it's putting a real face on the supply chain for the end consumer. I mean, at a time where consumers are demanding more transparency in the supply chain, demanding to know more about the source of the goods, of the products that they're buying, what has been the reception and what are you hearing back? >> I think we've had great receptions. We launched it at Davos, earlier this year. We've had a huge amount of interest and now slowly we're gaining sort of traction in terms of getting the pilots and putting them in place. And I think it's also something that people need to, initially it's a little bit of education, understanding, well, how does this actually all work? You know, is it just traceability? Is it just identity? Or is it actually all of those things? Understanding the use cases and embracing that it's not just one way of doing something and it's really a concept of embracing better business through better technology and innovation can actually be more sustainable and responsible businesses. So the traction has been great and we have a number of pilots in the pipeline. >> Yeah, in the past I used to believe that some things we should stop doing or stop eating because of the sustainable part of it, and I have learned that is not the case. You can do the right thing, you can make sure that you are doing the right thing and you can eat with no guilt. That's what everybody wants, right? This is the type of visibility you want to give from the consumer side, but not from the company side of it. The brands are, "Okay, I'm safe," because brands, they have a very good visibility from the distributor on, but they don't know what's going on behind that, and our products, this is so globalized nowadays, so fragmented. You know, it comes from so many different places. Brands, there is no way that they can control it if they don't have this veil. That's why we're trying to bring together. >> So when this fully does launch and the consumer is then seeing the face of the coffee grower in Brazil or in Kenya-- >> Yeah. >> And saying, "Okay," so then what happens then? How are they able to incentivize that farmer to do the right thing, as you say? >> There is a digital payment channel, powered by Mastercard, that you can then tip, so to speak, tip the farmer, donate money and actually say, "Well, there's multiple ways of doing things." Right? For example, if I'm the consumer scanning the product and we have a whole Lego city built upstairs that can showcase this, and say, "Right, this is how it works," and scan the product and where I can say, "Right, I want to be able "to donate an extra dollar for this farmer "because I really like the fact that you are sustainable. "And not burning the rainforest down "and protecting the orangutans or elephants or the birds. "So great, I'm going to give you an extra dollar." So this is how it's going to work on the app. >> And there are other consequences as well. There are so many organic products nowadays, but they're not really organic. So if you can prove they're organic, the farmers would feel more motivated to really grow that as an organic product because there is a premium. So it's not only the tip that you give to them, but also the fact that you can create a premium price situation that will motivate others to do the same. So brands would give the differentiator, farmers would feel like, "Okay, if I do this way, "it would be more profitable," and consumers would benefit from a real organic or a real product with the sustainability behind it. >> Great, consumers can trust more. >> Exactly. >> It's not just fake news. What are some of the, I mean, this is such a cool concept. What are some of the biggest challenges in really launching it and making it a reality? What is keeping you up at night? >> I think some of it is actually just education and getting it out there. And understanding that this is a lot of stakeholders. So, from consumer brands all the way down to the smallholder providers. It's a lot of people to link up and a lot of organizations to talk to. So some of it is just getting through that process and getting people to understand. Also, actually, hopefully we'll get consumers to adopt. >> Yeah. >> And understand that this is something that they will want to do. >> Yeah, this whole integration, like Christine said, it is important, right? So you understand all the key stakeholders. It don't need to be all of them at the beginning, but at least the key stakeholders in a supply chain. And how you can create the business incentive model for them to be part of that. So it's a mapping exercise. We're getting there and that's where you gain adoption, and if you get the consumer side doing this as well, so it creates a network effect. And that's why we're trying to do it at Mastercard. It's in our DNA, like, build the networks, right. Everybody knows that. So we wanted to bring this to the ecosystem, to contribute that, okay, so how can I create a network effect that they can exponentially scale for their whole marketshare, for their whole marketplace. >> I want to ask you a personal question. You've been in technology for a really long time and now-- >> Not that old though. >> (laughing) No, no. You're just a babe. But in terms of of the kinds of projects you've worked on and the kinds of ways you're thinking about technology and then this particular project at a time where climate change is a monumental challenge and the fate of our planet really hangs in the balance with the decisions that we're making, policy makers and consumers are making today. I mean, what is it like to work on this kind of product? >> That's a great question. Yeah, well, for all of these years, I go to work with this business mentality, you know, you're going to make more money for someone else. You're going to work for big company. And see some friends and family doing things for the society, I say, "Oh my gosh, I should do something like that." And now I feel like I can do both. We're talking now as a business. It's a great solution, but it mixes so well for the, you know, for the whole society. It makes me feel really, everyday going to work and say, "Oh, this is what I want to do. "This is so cool." I mean, I'm helping, I'm benefiting myself 'cause I go to the supermarket, I'm going to be the one who's going to tip the farmer. I'm going to be the one who's going to check where my shrimp comes from, right? So I'm doing this for my family. My kids are, I hope they can live in a better planet that know exactly where the products come from. >> And the family that you have that's not even been born yet, so that's the other thing, too, helping future generations. >> That's amazing. We're doing things that, we never know. >> Yes, you deserve the Nobel Peace Prize, Leandro. (all laughing) Thank you so much, Leandro and Christine, for coming on theCUBE. A really fun and fascinating conversation. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage at the Accenture Executive Summit coming up after lunch. (upbeat music)

>> live from Miami Beach, Florida It's the que covering demon 2019. Brought to you, by the way. >> Welcome back to Miami. Everybody watching the Cube, The leader in live tech coverage. This is Day two of the mon 2019 3 cubes. Third year at V mon, We did New Orleans. We did Chicago last year. Course here at the Fountain Blue in Miami. Great venue for an event like this. I'm Dave a lot. It was my co host, Peter Burroughs. Abba Dabbas. Eye is Adi is here. He's the head of a Charles Russell speech. Liza London based law firm. How about great. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Thankyou. So you tell us about this judge. Interesting name. Charles Russell. Speech lease. It was a merger of two firms, Right. Tell us how it all came about. >> Back in 2,014 Charles, loss of species performed for a merger between two different companies. Charles docile and speaks Lee Burcham from a 90 perspective. That was very interesting for the two departments coming together s So we have a limited time period where we had to merge these two companies Two different systems different data centers, different data sets. So it was formed by emerging back in 2,014 for five years on way here today >> that we see this a lot, you know, Emanate goes down. The acquiring company of this sounds like it was a merger. You know, they sort of battle. Okay, who's going toe? Really? Which framework is going to win? Because I'm sure had that conversation. But so to take us through that merger, what it entailed what? What the scenario looked like and how you plan for it. Sure. >> So I was part of the Charles. Also legacy Charles Russell team on, then obviously speaks about. Some had their own team as well. So initially, when we first found out about the merger, it was essential for the two teams to get together to work out. Okay, What systems? You have free mail. What systems you have for document management system playing trump cards. Which is who's got the best system and which way do we wantto move forward? A little. >> Ah, >> so but being a law firm, most law firms around the world and in the UK especially used the same types of software so essentially that from that perspective it was It was it was quite simple. But then way had to work out. How do we How do we go forward with this? Because two different headquarters in the London area. Which office do we move into? Sort of logistics around that. Can we fit in pre merger? It was six. Charles Lawson had sickle. Roughly 600 people, especially birds, had roughly 500 people. So pretty comparable. Yeah, yeah. So working out space logistics was was an issues >> making that even even more complicated, right? Yeah. >> One of the things that's interesting about a law firm, like versus a traditional manufacturer or AW financial services firm that has a lot of very fast right writing systems and have to scale on those lines is a law firms feature very complex dogs, very complex in from out of files, a lot of files that are written. But at the same time, you have to be repurposed to a lot of different work flows very sensitive to external contingent regulatory change. And so you have all of that happening, especially, I mean, two years ago from now on MySpace steak, and it was you're getting into brexit stuff, too, so that also had to be a source of uncertainty. So how has it been combining external regulatory issues the way that technology is being used in law firms and some of the new work clothes that you guys trying to support? And then adding, On top of that, the complexity of bringing these two firm GPR >> GPO itself was It was a year old project for us on. Obviously, we've got offices. The Middle East, but obviously is in the Far East on DH in Central Europe has well, so data logistics or where it sits, is an issue for us as well. So GDP, ours being a big project for us in terms of the merger itself. It was it was very, very difficult for the two I T departments to come together on actually work out. How how do we go to one unified systems? Essentially one doctor man, just in one email system. All of that took a lot of plan in law project management on essentially within the legal press itself. We got doubted in the time frames that we had that we can achieve it on within. I think It was 18 month period. We had merged order, different systems and various offices because speech the Bertram and Time is what I had. Offices in Zurich and Geneva were to merge with different offices together as well. So it was. It was a big, big task for the i T department on the firm itself. >> They're very tight migration deadlines. And and as you started to approach those deadlines you had to worry about, Okay, When we're going to cut over, how do we avoid downtime? How do we make sure that we don't? You know, I have bad data, data, corruption and the like. So how did you plan for that? And how did it go? >> So wait, we're here. C'mon on DH. Veen was It was it was a big part of our migration process. So where we had two different parts of the business Different storage systems, Different actualization system's way used to mean a CZ. The middleman basically, to my great data, from one day to center to another, using swink it. So where there was a large amount of terabytes and terabytes, amount of data way had swing kit available to us using team were able to be to be essentially a love the environments into the swing care and then bring them over to the other side of the business. And vain was essentially part on on top of that, making sure that the data that we were coming that will bring in a cross is true and not corrupt on DH, that using some of their technology is sure backups and stuff like that really, really was essential to, you know, do migration going well >> And was was Wien installed and both organizations at the time? Or was that something that you had to sort of redeploy? >> And yeah, So Legacy Charles also had way was actually myself going back probably eight years ago. Version For a time, I think team had 20,000 customers. So to here >> there were version 10 now 33 150 >> 1,001,000, 4,000 month. >> That makes me proud that we invested in vain when we did good car. So yeah, it was It was a good call from us, and essentially three other side of the business did not have. But then we just wait. Expanded our Venus State to look at both sides and then bring him across on. And then, ever since then, we've grown our vamos state across the world, across all of officers. So >> So how did you do that? So that was that was another migration that had to occur. And did you? You kind of do those simultaneously. Did you do the theme of migration first, and then bring the two systems together? >> Do you seem to do Stouffer special sauce in the migration? >> Yeah. So Veen was essentially a tool that we used to my great data sensors from one data center to another using their backup technology using their replication technology, we were able to replicate all of one side's virtual machines to the other. And then that gave us that gave us the flexibility as well. When when we had the limited down time periods that we've had, they give us the flexibility to actually Circe the business is during these particular ours. We're not gonna be able to You're not gonna have access to these systems because we're going to bring up systems from point A to point B. So veen was essential to them if >> you had to do it over again. If he had a mulligan, what would you have done differently? What what advice might you give to somebody who's trying to go through a similar migration? >> I would say Give your partners and lawyers more realistic time. Pray the time frame that we would get. >> Or don't let them give you an unrealistic time for him. >> Exactly. Yeah, so says ensured that the amount of work it's it's not just day to itself. You know, we're talking network and we're talking security. We're talking, you know, to to similar sized companies coming together. We were very, very limited time frame, consolidating all of their systems into one which is essential for the two parts of the business to collaborate together because, you know, way could have taken our time. We could have got to take this free four years a CE, far as we're concerned. But the fact that we did do it in such a quick time for him and that business to parts of the business from Day one can collaborate much better with each other. So >> we talked a lot about digital business transformation and you know, our approach or our observations on the digital business transformations, the process by which you altar and change your firm to re institutionalize the work. Change your game. Tomato Grover. All governments model as you use data as an asset, so that's affecting every firm everywhere. How's it affecting a law firm and you know your law from specifically on? How is that going to change your stance in your approach to data protection >> Data is incredibly important to unlawful. A zit is to most most organizations, but in terms of, you know, one of one of the things that's quite important in terms of law firms. We work with the financial institutions, so we held information by that. We hold personal data way hold all times of information. Charles Oscar speech leads works with Aware is of law apart from Kunal. So the areas of law that they worked with his vast in terms of the amount of data that we hold and essentially I mean, for us data is the most important thing that runs the firm and having visibility tow our data. How do we How do we work that data? How do we then market based on the data that we have? How do we market ourselves from that data. You know, there might be one area the business that's dealing with a family issue, family law. But then, you know that that could correspond with the litigation issue. You know, how do we work that data? To be to be an advancing to our businesses is extremely important. For >> what? What do you think of the announcements this week? I'm kind of curious. I was liketo ask the practitioners of what they think about. You know what was announced. You had, uh, well, you had the ve made $1,000,000,000. That's kind of fun and cool, but But you had the with the program, which was kind of interesting. The whole ap I look the beam availability orchestrator, where they're really talking about recovering from backups as a host that needed to recover from, you know, a replicated instance. You know, some of the automated testing stuff was kind of interesting. They talked about dynamic documentation, things you saw this week that you'll actually go back and say, Hey, I can apply that to solve a problem. Sure. >> So, essentially, I think I've been a really good question is very relevant to us many of not just ourselves law firm but many of the other law firms around the world are now looking at cloud based services now for us. I mean, this was a big thing five years ago way you know, everyone was talking about public clouds. Us. We're now we're now looking clouds and where basically, we've bean pushed by the vendors themselves to go towards cloudlike Citrix, for example. Their licensing model was based around their services. So is Microsoft in Mike's off? You don't you don't really have, you know, exchange anymore. Within premises you have off 365 A lot of the SAS applications are moving toward the cloud on DH. What wrote me? I had to say doing the keynote in regards to act, too. And how team are trying to be the visionaries in terms of look at that cloud is their next big thing for the next 10 years, offering often a crucial and for businesses like ours who have limited exposure to cloud technologies limited understanding, essentially having a tool that could migrate from one cloud to another. It's fantastic, you know, we've offered, you know I've spoken to, obviously are United directors around the other law firms where I wanted to have gone to the public cloud. But they don't know how to come back in and having a tall that essentially gives you that flexibility to bring it back in house to go form a ws to zoo. Or if there's a particular assess application, for example, that piers better with a W s. But you've got your other application that piers with that particular application is your Why would you want to have in the door? You'll probably want to move into a W eso for us, I think. What? The message coming out of'em on this year has bean really, really helpful for us. >> So So when you started with theme, they had it said 20,000 custom You like the 20001st customer on DIT was coincided with the virtual ization, you know, craze. Do you feel like the team knowing what you know about them, you have a lot of experience with them Consort of Replicate that success in this town intendant and in Act two, >> I think when I first looked at them, Wow, this is really, really simple. It's a bit like an iPhone. You know you given iPhone to your grandmother or to your children, and they have to play with it. And I see the beam as an intuitive piece of software that easy fighting professionals to get on with it, as their slogan said a few years ago. It just works. It does just work. Wear were great advocates of him. It's worked wonders for us. We've acquired smaller businesses using we've managed companies using and when I see you know, when you go to the sessions and you see the intelligence behind their thinking, I think going back to your question I think Wei si oui, si, vamos a strategic partner for us when we see their vision and we believe in their vision, and I think what they're doing in terms of what they working on next few years, I think we're well favor there, and I think, you know, essentially, that's where the most of their business is going to come from, >> where you sit down with, you know, rat mayor over over vodka and he says, Tell me the one thing I could do to make your life you know, easier, better you can't say cut prices s a hellhole. But what would you advise him to >> make my life better >> other than Jim instead of >> yeah, eyes that >> would make you crazy. >> So in terms of a zoo, a technology, >> your business relationship or something, she'd like to see them do that would. I >> think in terms of mergers and acquiring companies, seen license rentals will be a good thing. I know, I know. They give you a valuation license keys, and that's something that you can use. So, for example, if we were to acquire a company that has hundreds of servers and PM's having license rentals for a period of time, able >> to spin it up and spin it down actually allowed >> Exactly. Yeah, that would be an advantage. I think in terms of what you know what they're doing in the marketplace, and a lot of law firms use him. I feel I can't do any more than they are doing now. And in all the years that we've used to be my fingers on eight years now, but we've only had one serious problem, and the way they got that problem, you know the way, the way they communicated to reverse the way they a lot of different teams across the the Europe and the US go involved. I think, you know, in terms of service, in terms of software, in terms of what they what they do for us. I don't think there's anything more to add. Teoh. Right? Maia's vision. >> That's great for their custom of it. Well, thanks so much for coming on. The Cube is not heavy. Really? Thank you very much. You're welcome to keep it right there, buddy Peter, and I'll be back with our next guests right after this short break. We're live from Miami at the front of Blue Hotel. You're watching the Cube from Vienna on 2019 right back.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering Informatica World 2019, brought to you by Informatica. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Informatica World. I am your host, Rebecca Knight, along with co-host, John Furrier. We have two guests for this segment. We have Abhiman Matlapudi. He is the Product Master at Deloitte. Welcome. >> Thanks for having us. >> And we have Kubalahm Rajeev Krishnan, Specialist Leader at Deloitte. Thank you both so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks Rebecca, John. It's always good to be back on theCUBE. >> Love the new logos here, what's the pins? What's the new take on those? >> It looks like a honeycomb! >> Yeah, so interesting that you ask, so this is our joined Deloitte- Informatica label pin. You can see the Deloitte green colors, >> Nice! They're beautiful. >> And the Informatica colors. This shows the collaboration, the great collaboration that we've had over, you know, the past few years and plans, for the future as well. Well that's what we're here to talk about. So why don't you start the conversation by telling us a little bit about the history of the collaboration, and what you're planning ahead for the future. Yeah. So, you know, if we go like you know, ten years back the collaboration between Deloitte and Informatica has not always been that, that strong and specifically because Deloitte is a huge place to navigate, and you know, in order to have those meaningful collaborations. But over the past few years, we've... built solid relationships with Informatica and vise versa. I think we seek great value. The clear leaders in the Data Management Space. It's easy for us to kind of advise clients in terms of different facets of data management. You know, because no other company actually pulls together you know, the whole ecosystem this well. >> Well you're being polite. In reality, you know where it's weak and where it's real. I mean, the reality is there's a lot of fun out there, a lot of noise, and so, I got to ask you, cause this is the real question, because there's no one environment that's the same. Customers want to get to the truth faster, like, where's the deal? What's the real deal with data? What's gettable? What's attainable? What's aspirational? Because you could say "Hey, well I make data, data-driven organization, Sass apps everywhere." >> Yeah. Yeah absolutely. I mean every, every company wants to be more agile. Business agility is what's driving companies to kind of move all of their business apps to the Cloud. The uh, problem with that is that, is that people don't realize that you also need to have your data management governance house in order, right, so according to a recent Gartner study, they say by next year, 75% of companies who have moved their business apps to the Cloud, is going to, you know, unless they have their data management and data assets under control, they have some kind of information governance, that has, you know, context, or purview over all of these business apps, 50% of their data assets are going to erode in value. So, absolutely the need of the hour. So we've seen that great demand from our clients as well, and that's what we've been advising them as well. >> What's a modern MDM approach? Because this is really the heart of the conversation, we're here at Informatica World. What's- What does it look like? What is it? >> So I mean, there are different facets or functionalities within MDM that actually make up what is the holistic modern MDM, right. In the past, we've seen companies doing MDM to get to that 360-degree view. Somewhere along the line, the ball gets dropped. That 360 view doesn't get combined with your data warehouse and all of the transaction information, right, and, you know, your business uses don't get the value that they were looking for while they invested in that MDM platform. So in today's world, MDM needs to provide front office users with the agility that they need. It's not about someone at the back office doing some data stewardship. It's all about empowering the front office users as well. There's an aspect of AIML from a data stewardship perspective. I mean everyone wants cost take out, right, I mean there's fewer resources and more data coming in. So how how do you manage all of the data? Absolutely you need to have AIML. So Informatica's CLAIRE product helps with suggestions and recommendations for algorithms, matching those algorithms. Deloitte has our own MDM elevate solution that embeds AIML for data stewardship. So it learns from human data inputs, and you know, cuts through the mass of data records that have to be managed. >> You know Rajeev, it was interesting, last year we were talking, the big conversation was moving data around is really hard. Now there's solutions for that. Move the data integrity on premise, on Cloud. Give us an update on what's going on there, because there seems to be a lot of movement, positive movement, around that. In terms of, you know, quality, end to end. We heard Google up here earlier saying "Look, we can go into end to end all you want". This has been a big thing. How are you guys handling this? >> Yeah absolutely, so in today's key note you heard Anil Chakravarthy and Thomas Green up on the stage and Anil announced MDM on GCP, so that's an offering that Deloitte is hosting and managing. So it's going to be an absolutely white-glove service that gives you everything from advice to implement to operate, all hosted on GCP. So it's a three-way ecosystem offering between Deloitte, Informatica, and GCP. >> Well just something about GCP, just as a side note before you get there, is that they are really clever. They're using Sequel as a way to abstract all the under the hood kind of configuration stuff. Smart move, because there's a ton of Sequel people out there! >> Exactly. >> I mean, it's not structured query language for structured data. It's lingua franca for data. They've been changing the game on that. >> Exactly, it should be part of their Cloud journey. So organizations, when they start thinking about Cloud, first of all, what they need to do is they have to understand where all the data assets are and they read the data feeds coming in, where are the data lakes, and once they understand where their datas are, it's not always wise, or necessary to move all their data to the Cloud. So, Deloitte's approach or recommendation is to have a hybrid approach. So that they can keep some of their legacy datas, data assets, in the on premise and some in the Cloud applications. So, Informatica, MDM, and GCP, powered by Deloitte, so it acts as an MDM nimble hub. In respect of where your data assets are, it can give you the quick access to the data and it can enrich the data, it can do the master data, and also it can protect your data. And it's all done by Informatica. >> Describe what a nimble hub is real quick. What does a nimble hub mean? What does that mean? >> So it means that, in respect of wherever your data is coming in and going out, so it gives you a very light feeling that the client wouldn't know. All we- Informatica, MDM, on GCP powered by Deloitte, what we are saying is we are asking clients to just give the data. And everything, as Rajeev said, it's a white-glove approach. It's that from engagement, to the operation, they will just feel a seamless support from Deloitte. >> Yeah, and just to address the nimbleness factor right, so we see clients that suddenly need to get into new market, or they want to say, introduce a new product, so they need the nimbleness from a business perspective. Which means that, well suddenly you've got to like scale up and down your data workloads as well, right? And that's not just transactional data, but master data as well. And that's where the Cloud approach, you know, gives them a positive advantage. >> I want to get back to something Abhiman said about how it's not always wise or necessary to move to the Cloud. And this is a debate about where do you keep stuff. Should it be on on prem, and you said that Deloitte recommends a hybrid approach and I'm sure that's a data-driven recommendation. I'm wondering what evidence you have and what- why that recommendation? >> So, especially when it depends on the applications you're putting on for MDM, and the sources and data is what you are trying to get, for the Informatica MDM to work. So, it's not- some of your social systems are already tied up with so many other applications within your on premise, and they don't want to give every other data. And some might have concerns of sending this data to the Cloud. So that's when you want to keep those old world legacy systems, who doesn't want to get upgrades, to your on premise, and who are all Cloud-savy and they can all starting new. So they can think of what, and which, need a lot of compute power, and storage. And so those are the systems we want to recommend to the Cloud. So that's why we say, think where you want to move your data bases. >> And some of it is also driven by regulation, right, like GDPR, and where, you know, which providers offer in what countries. And there's also companies that want to say "Oh well my product strategy and my pricing around products, I don't want to give that away to someone." Especially in the high tech field, right. Your provider is going to be a confidere. >> Rajeev, one of the things I'm seeing here in this show, is clearly that the importance of the Cloud should not be understated. You see, and you guys, you mentioned you get the servers at Google. This is changing not just the customers opportunity, but your ability to service them. You got a white-glove service, I'm sure there's a ton more head room. Where do you guys see the Cloud going next? Obviously it's not going away, and the on premise isn't going away. But certainly, the importance of the Cloud should not be understated. That's what I'm hearing clearly. You see Amazon, Azure, Google, all big names with Informatica. But with respect to you guys, as you guys go out and do your services. This is good for business. For you guys, helping customers. >> Yeah absolutely, I think there's value for us, there's value for our clients. You know, it's not just the apps that are kind of going to the Cloud, right? I mean you see all data platforms that are going to the Cloud. For example, Cloudera. They just launched CDP. Being GA by July- August. You know, Snowflake's on the Cloud doing great, getting good traction in the market. So eventually what were seeing is, whether it's business applications or data platforms, they're all moving to the Cloud. Now the key things to look out for in the future is, how do we help our clients navigate a multi Cloud environment, for example, because sooner or later, they wouldn't want to have all of their eggs invested in one basket, right? So, how do we help navigate that? How do we make that seamless to the business user? Those are the challenges that we're thinking about. >> What's interesting about Databricks and Snowflake, you mentioned them, is that it really is a tell sign that start-ups can break through and crack the enterprise with Cloud and the ecosystem. And you're starting to see companies that have a Sass-like mindset with technology. Coming into an enterprise marketed with these ecosystems, it's a tough crowd believe me, you know the enterprise. It's not easy to break into the enterprise, so for Databricks and Snowflake, that's a huge tell sign. What's your reaction to that because it's great for Informatica because it's validation for them, but also the start-ups are now growing very fast. I mean, I wouldn't call Snowflake 3 billion dollar start-up their unicorn but, times three. But it's a tell sign. It's just something new we haven't seen. We've seen Cloudera break in. They kind of ramped their way in there with a lot of raise and they had a big field sales force. But Data Bear and Snowflake, they don't have a huge set in the sales force. >> Yeah, I think it's all about clients and understanding, what is the true value that someone provides. Is it someone that we can rely on to keep our data safe? Do they have the capacity to scale? If you can crack those things, then you'll be in the market. >> Who are you attracting to the MDM on Google Cloud? What's the early data look like? You don't have to name names, but whats some of the huge cases that get the white glove service from Deloitte on the Google Cloud? Tell us about that. Give us more data on that. >> So we've just announced that, here at Informatica World, we've got about three to four mid to large enterprises. One large enterprise and about three mid-size companies that are interested in it. So we've been in talks with them in terms of- and that how we want to do it. We don't want to open the flood gates. We'd like to make sure it's all stable, you know, clients are happy and there's word of mouth around. >> I'm sure the end to end management piece of it, that's probably attractive. The end to end... >> Exactly. I mean, Deloitte's clearly the leader in the data analytics space, according to Gartner Reports. Informatica is the leader in their space. GCP has great growth plans, so the three of them coming together is going to be a winner. >> One of the most pressing challenges facing the technology industry is the skills gap and the difficulty in finding talent. Surveys show that I.T. managers can't find qualified candidates for open Cloud roles. What are Deloitte's thought on this and also, what are you doing as a company to address it? >> I mean, this is absolutely a good problem to have, for us. Right, which means that there is a demand. But unless we beat that demand, it's a problem. So we've been taking some creative ways, in terms of addressing that. An example would be our analytics foundry offering, where we provide a pod of people that go from data engineers you know, with Python and Sparks skills, to, you know, Java associates, to front end developers. So a whole stack of developers, a full stack, we provide that full pod so that they can go and address a particular business analytics problem or some kind of visualization issues, in terms of what they want to get from the data. So, we teach Leverate that pod, across multiple clients, I think that's been helping us. >> If you could get an automated, full time employee, that would be great. >> Yeah, and this digital FD concept is something that we'd be looking at, as well. >> I would like to add on that, as well. So, earlier- with the data disruption, Informatica's so busy and Informatica's so busy that Deloitte is so busy. Now, earlier we used plain Informatica folks and then, later on because of the Cloud disruption, so we are training them on the Cloud concepts. Now what the organizations have to think, or the universities to think is that having the curriculum, the Cloud concepts in their universities and their curriculum so that they get all their Cloud skills and after, once they have their Cloud skills, we can train them on the Informatica skills. And Informatica has full training on that. >> I think it's a great opportunity for you guys. We were talking with Sally Jenkins to the team earlier, and the CEO. I was saying that it reminds me of early days of VMware, with virtualization you saw the shift. Certainly the economics. You replaced servers, do a virtual change to the economics. With the data, although not directly, it's a similar concept where there's new operational opportunities, whether it's using leverage in Google Cloud for say, high-end, modern data warehousing to whatever. The community is going to respond. That's going to be a great ecosystem money making opportunity. The ability to add new services, give you guys more capabilities with customers to really move the needle on creating value. >> Yeah, and it's interesting you mention VMware because I actually helped, as VMware stood up there, VMCA, AW's and NSA's offerings on the Cloud. We actually helped them get ready for that GA and their data strategy, in terms of support, both for data and analytics friendliness. So we see a lot of such tech companies who are moving to a flexible consumption service. I mean, the challenges are different and we've got a whole practice around that flex consumption. >> I'm sure Informatica would love the VMware valuation. Maybe not worry for Dell technology. >> We all would love that. >> Rajeem, Abhiman, thank you so much for joining us on theCube today. >> Thank you very much. Good talking to you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. We will have more from Informatica World tomorrow.

from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation welcome everybody to this cube conversation my name is Dave Volante and we're here in our Palo Alto studios Medusa doc R is here he's an investor and entrepreneur and a friend we're do great to see you again thanks so much for coming in thank you it's a head too long it is you and I sat down and had a conversation on the cube so it's been well yeah yeah well you've been on the cube a bunch and you've a I've seen some great conversations that you had with with with Peter and John so thanks for making the time and coming back in thank you so I want to start with when I go around and talk to executives every CEO is trying to get digital right you know whatever that means you know they know it's important and they're trying to figure it out they know it relates to data they know they have to leverage data they know this buzzword of digital transformation what are you seeing when you talk to executives and companies how real is this digital transformation is it a fad or is it a substantive good question to look from my view point of view digital transformation is the word people use but at the end of the day CIOs have to disrupt their businesses every CEO has to figure out am i cutting the cost I'm a helping companies grow in revenue from a look at from a board perspective and what people are looking at the investor perspective most CEOs are CEOs are looking at somehow looking running their operations on a day-to-day basis to that point I think most CEOs are expecting see I was to do the new innovative things at you probably hearing that people are adding CDO as a title yeah so it's up to see I were to see will it be the innovate to CIO it's like you have two kids like in your case your four kids you have two how do you make sure that all four kids are given the equal responsibility so Ciara has to decide look I have budget X X by two goes to my existing business X by two goes to the new business that decision making is not happening with the see I was today and that's what the distal transformation has to be is going on in a what I call not in a disruptive manner but the CEOs who have figure out how to disrupt it I really taking the next stage the next thing that people are interested there is where do I start right you have all should I start with my CRM supply chain should I start with my IT you got to figure out what all the but start someplace you pick one the area but that has to be disruptive in the sense we are living in the age of where I call it autonomous everything right there's a data there is cloud and there's AI our mission like what are you these three are such a large disruption in our industry see us how to figure out and say what can I do in terms of cost saving in terms of revenue growth but that can't be incremental it has to be revolutionary so I often say we've decades we've marched to the cadence of Moore's law in this industry that's where innovation came from no longer it's as you said it's data now for the last 10 years and you were involved in this we were collecting all this data we lowered the cost of collecting data and and and in running data warehouses with Hadoop but now data's plentiful insights aren't so you have data you have to apply machine intelligence to that data and then cloud gives you scale so that's like the new innovation cocktail so you agree that digital I agree digital transformation is real and the other dynamic mudo is you see companies are because it's data are able to traverse industries used to be you're in an industry if you're in financial services that's it if you're in healthcare that's it now you see Amazon's and content apples into financial services so people are afraid of getting disrupted you've got this new innovation cocktail so your point was really get started so you've got a shift resources you don't have unlimited budget right so how do people do that how are they taking cost out of the business and how are they reapportioning that cost for innovation really good so I'll give you two examples from Megan again thinking of where I see it one is for CIOs has something called IT operations IT operation is a very big piece that people need to figure out how to get the cost out of it the IT operations cannot be developed we've been running IT for last 30 years I mean what are the word they used I know Gartner uses the word called AAA Hobbs I don't care what the word is but the key is you have to run your 18 autonomous manner we are living in the age of your trading is autonomous your my your four on game by four on K is being traded through hedge funds your add technologies autonomous with Facebook Google and Amazon with all data when I saw with with Casper and Splunk we made cybersecurity autonomous to whatever extent threat detection but when it came to IT operations and IT customer support today manual if I may see over right now I'll invest on customer service and support to start as a point of what can I do to make my service agents better or what can I do to make the end users or the users experience better without going to a human can I eliminate the human in the equation here the mileage may vary it's like the driverless consequence you have level 1 to level 5 they may like to have autopilot some people may have a fully autonomous car depending on the organization you got to have a right amount of autonomous City in your organization both for IT operations and IT Service Management that hasn't happened and that will be happen in the next 4 5 years so let's talk about that you were at ServiceNow for a period of time they've obviously disrupted the old-line helpdesk and you know they really did a job on BMC and hewlett-packard etc are they in a position to take that next step in when you go to service now analogy here folks talk about AI and infusing AI obviously there's a lot of data being collected is that the right model I mean if they've automated forms but you think you're talking about something more I help us understand that sure looks abused know is in a great position they'll continue to do well it's a great company right I think what's going to happen next is how can companies like ServiceNow take her to the next stage right either become a partner with ServiceNow or service now itself we'll do it a little bit new companies will be for me one angle is forces enterprises is this game going to be for enterprises same playbook as a playbook for the cloud so imagine an apps that are born on the cloud their IT operations data their ticketing data where will that go to that means we think through enterprise data which is enterprise apps and so as they need to figure out so if I am a company today if I'm daring I need to decide what will I do for my enterprise applications and services what do I do it for my cloud Orion services so that is addition you have to make it at the top once it goes down the next level then able to decide is it for IT support customer support or IT operations what can I do in terms of augmenting there if I do is just to make my agents better you can take the cost out of the equation the cost should be is can I automate to the point I can eliminate 50% of my DevOps 50% of my SR ease my role of the come is in the next four five years this 70 80 % of devops I tell you when I study jobs will be gone that should be automated it should be a driverless IT autonomous IT people should have him that's not even a moonshot goal we all in America let's make great our great again this is our time it's IT if we don't do it some other country will do it Chile is going to eat us for lunch so he basically putting forth the scenario a DevOps was essentially a stepping stone and you see that largely going away it has to be it has been automated I'm not going to hide hundreds of tunas I called Manuel tuners right yes I'll need some DevOps people I need some IT admin things that system cannot do it algorithmically should go to humans at some point but there are enough things like if you want to install something in your laptop why should I talk to somebody else if I want to upgrade to Microsoft Office if I want to buy a CRM license if I want to get a zoom provisioning why do I need to talk to a human being in this equation can I oughta mater complete autonomous can I get to a level five autonomous in IT right that's what I'm looking towards robotic process automation play a role here can our PA we've done some some events with automation anywhere new iPad you're seeing huge valuations uipath as supposedly as another six billion dollar evaluation I mean you know amazing unicorn plus plus plus can those technologies be applied to solve this problem yes or no I think it depends on what the HRP are under star doing IP is a great topic right not be resolved very successful what I'm talking about is our IT operations and IT support and customer support automation can our PA guys take their technology their substrate a platter sure they can try it but these are all have to be grown organically doing this in nit going for customer service and support doing it for the cloud has its own its own skin its own platform like you and me were talking earlier if I'm doing this thing on Amazon why wait and launch a VM I won't even do it like if a new ticket comes in I should be doing through kinases I should be doing through my lambda functions I shouldn't be my cost of goods with so much that I want it should not cost me anything until the point Dave generates a ticket to me first all why should Dave generate a ticket right look at the very much extreme model of the test laws just like our today tells me when should I service my car why should you do the same thing like I should be coming and telling your SharePoint is going to go down they have today your Kube application you cannot do an interview with me too unless you fix it that is what the world wants to go so back to service management for minutes so in the old days our service manager was too cumbersome we really didn't have a single CMDB it just really didn't work that well it didn't change anything a lot of tickets that's what it did service now obviously solved that that that problem but what I'm inferring from what you're saying is it's still too expensive the entire infrastructure it needs to be more streamlined and automation is the answer absolutely so I think if you take it'll add layers and layers the first is in the support starting women from CMDB most organizers say my CMD that I still all are stale that's never accurate how can I get a dynamic view of Dave's ink right I should know when and that has to be done at the level of services and apps and at kubernetes level 2 container level once I have a blueprint of what my organization is then I need to know how do I handle the tickets against it then I can I do a health monitoring for all my CIS right I should be telling the outage put it at the another what business carries is my business running correctly you do have a downtime what is going to happen even though if I am false positives few times people are expecting saying that tell me proactively what services will impact and who will be impacted so I can take a corrective action and that will happen starting from CMDB automation I actually call it cloud CMDB our dynamic CMDB in the world of cloud and dynamic let's make a good cmdbs dynamic and accurate then take it to the ultimate outage prediction right if I can give your business up time and outage prediction that would be Nirvana are you telling me that IT cannot solve it you and me are saying in Palo Alto a driverless cars are going around we are going to see it in our lifetime IT can be so complex that the car can be autonomous but IT cannot be I don't buy them well I mean you hear about all the systems are down or my systems are slow today that's that's a form of outage that costs Fortune 2000 companies and money I mean it's you know 50 60 thousand dollars a minute in this in some cases so the and I think sometimes people aren't aware as to how much how much revenue is lost to downtime or lost productivity so there's huge huge gains to be made there and it seems that the cloud is the platform on which you're going to you're gonna build these these these natural choice it has to be yeah and it has we want a cloud to you can't say we are in the eight if you are a noose new cloud you're building it I tell people bill it is a multi cloud your same code should work on GCP Amazon and Azure right and on VMware if you want to be a private cloud but should be same the same codebase should be able to compile and run on all multiple processor kubernetes micro services that's really the enabler there right right at once run it anywhere interesting conversation multi-cloud you're hearing a lot of discussion you know certainly in DC the Jedi case Oracle is contesting that when you read the rulings from the General Accounting Office that basically the the DoD determined that multi-cloud is is less secure more expensive more complex now that's the DoD everybody's gonna have multi cloud because multi-cloud is multi vendor sure but it's interesting you don't hear Amazon talking about multi cloud other than you don't want to do it because it's too expensive but everybody else is talking about multi cloud is kubernetes somewhat of a threat to that Amazon posture I don't think I think if you look at Amazon is saying they call it hybrid cloud the word may be different multi cloud or hybrid cloud yeah say they've already partnered like the best public cloud partner with the best pressure of your house is awesome announcement right so vehement software ever talk to Pat gal singer and his team and look they got VMware working with AWS vice-versa so that's it great I mean maybe even call it a two ecosystem but they got that whole thing working there yeah anything with agile is going to do with their public cloud on Azure with as you understand I'll just tack on prom yeah right everybody has 70 mgcp will figure out so then after a while if you and me as a customer I should be able to move things many times it happen is I'm not going to move things dynamically for a nibble but if I want I don't want to vendor lock it I want a code such that if tomorrow something happens I should be able to have an option to move my code base to a different cloud and that's what multi-cloud will happen as a requirement as you build it how much you exercise are not people will design software going for a formal techno so a whole new vector of conversation I would love to get your opinion on that multi-cloud opportunity obviously Cisco's going after VMware's in the strong position there certainly Microsoft is is vying for that you have a ton of startups looking at this IBM with the Red Hat acquisition now is in a in a pretty strong position you know given its open source chops how do you see that whole multi-cloud you know vendor landscape shaking out I think I got really good I have a TD for this at the end when the dust settles you won't have 100 aircraft carriers you will have only four or five yeah so it's like what happened in 90s compact went away Dec went away so same thing is going to happen here there will be four or five vendors will survive there will be Amazon's as yours maybe GCPs VMware's maybe it's Cisco and IBM talks about a I mean there's like maybe alley cloud in China you won't have hundreds of cloud so the number is already decreasing it will let be 10 will it be 5 will it before that still you will see the tall rise but it's already been the whole council isn't happening so if I'm a customer if I'm a vendor if I'm a startup or a public company I'm going to build it only for a few these multi cloud vendors I'm not going to across hundred yeah because the marginal economics of those those hyper clouds we've been saying this for years if there's just so much more compelling and at the end of the day if the economics are 10x less expensive and more attractive that they're gonna win you know and and I think even though you have thousands and thousands of service providers who call themselves cloud we're talking about a different kind of cloud it's got one of those you know it when you see it types of things and I'm going to add something so if you take this back to your earlier question about where the disruption is happening we talked about all the customer service support an IT service management industry but imagine if an app is born on the cloud call it cloud native applications you have millions of new apps that are there on this cloud platforms what is that going to do where is the data going there they want another customer service and support applicant on their platform it currently it's like I'm in your house I'm drinking your wine but when it comes to managing my customers of an operation I will take your log data your even data or take indeed and put in somebody else's house even though John is your partner when you put it there it doesn't make sense it should run it inside yours so all these vendors would want a native application that is running on their platform solving their customer data which hasn't happened yet well this is interesting so obviously Oracle has its own cloud but you're seeing well see work day Salesforce service now all these SAS companies just used to build their own clouds they're building their own data centers Chuck Chuck Philips oven forces I don't friends don't let friends build data centers so maybe he's prescient maybe the trend is that these apps are going to largely predominantly run in the public cloud the Oracle IBM notwithstanding they've got the resources to maybe you know tough it out is that the scenario that you see I have take the consumer companies whether you take V work Airbnb uber all these guys you are already seeing them on to some opinion maybe they have their own datacenter but there are vastly learning and public clouds right and you have already seen that's even the big SAS vendors whether it's Adobe yeah it'll be solid partner with Microsoft Azure workday is partnering with Amazon you saw em Salesforce partnering with Google cloud and AW so you're only seeing these vendors the large SAS when there's already saying in order for me for economics wise it doesn't make sense whether it's for my marketing cloud my service cloud my ecommerce cloud I want this to run on this cloud platform to get scale cost of economics and also I need my services that are built there with a new substrate like we talked about that's lambda functions to kinases I'm not going to do it on my platform but and that trend is going on it's just accelerating so how are you spending your time these days you've had a very successful entrepreneur investor you've been CEO of multiple companies what do you do in these days I'm look I'm very happy with what I'm doing right now so I spend a lot of time with this company called I set up that's right I'm even we talked about it it's a startup company in Palo Alto their vision is to apply like what we got AI ops applying AI for digital transformation for AI customer service I trps oh I like the region look I want to spend time with companies which are taking a big bet right it's like in our IT industry nobody talks about moonshot goals let's take a bigger bet let's take a much vision of for five year ten years what can we disrupt right and I look at those companies I invest with those companies and spending time with them I'm learning a lot in the process I'm contributing back to the those companies well you know sitter I was on Twitter yesterday with with a little group we're having an interesting discussion about you know how things are changing the dynamics of where innovation comes over so we started this conversation with that sort of new innovation cocktail and there just seems to be a whole new fabric of services not only it's not just remote cloud services anymore it's these embedded services that are can think they can act they can sense and it's ubiquitous now even the edge autonomous vehicles we're entering a whole new era it's very exciting right and again one thing that we didn't talk to see Mike and son and my it again it's society has to have regulations and will come if you look at the what's happened in this whole call center customer service industry if autonomous city will happen of any level from level even if I automate 30 percent of your customer service and you don't touch a human being when you are at home for your Comcast to your nest imagine all those services inside your home from field service to if they get automated what's going to happen first of all if Sally's gonna improve your costs are going to reduce if I'm a business I can take that money and invest somewhere else but more importantly those most of those things it's it's a big disruption happening in the outsourced industry right these are your jobs in China India Philippines Vietnam my concern is dart saying that there will be a certain is going to happen people are not paying attention to that and this this strain has already left the station yeah it's going to come to a platform again some next platform but next for five years you'll see a tremendous disruption in this area of digital transformation well I remember a couple decades ago there was a lot of talk about well you people spending a lot of money on IT but that you don't see it in the productivity numbers and all of a sudden because of the PC revolution the productivity went through the roof you're hearing similar sort of discussions now we feel like productivity is about to explode because of what you're saying here absolutely and again the per back to the RP has already shown the value our peers no longer in each category it's what we talked about success renders from you iPad automation anywhere blue prism that just on the back end of the supply chain and RPF cell taking the two front office applying that to customer service facing to your crm facing that your IT hasn't happened yet can I automatically can I ought Americans right from an employee experience to customer experience that productivity if you employ it you'll get more customers doing that yeah it scares people but but it's the future so you better embrace it and lean in voodoo thanks so much oh let's go always measure to see you alright thanks for watching everybody this is David day from our studios in Palo Alto and we'll see you next time thank you [Music]

why from Las Vegas Nevada it's the queue covers AWS reinvent 2016 brought to you by AWS and its ecosystem partners now here your host John Fourier and Stu Mittleman he welcome back everyone we are here live in Las Vegas for Amazon Web Services AWS reinvent 2016 their annual user developer conference I'm John furry with silicon angle Joe and Mike Coast give me a minute with boogie bond it's the cube our flagship program when we go out to the events and extract the signal noise and right now we have some really hot signal it's Andy jassie CEO of Amazon Web Services welcome back to the cube great to see you cube alumni three years in a row now you've been on the cube great to have you back keep the tradition going thanks for coming on it's great to be here and I wanted to congratulate you on your 29th birthday today I wish I'm eighteen actually you're gonna go that way I'll never get over eighteen okay appreciate that appreciate the merry Cammarata bringing the cake out for the team but what a birthday present for us to be at the cube this year because you guys have celebrate your 10 year birthday a little bit younger than I am but the world has changed in the past five years we sat down at your house and in your sports bar talked about the future and that's all on Silk'n angle comm and Forbes magazine calm but you guys have to set the agenda and 32,000 people up from 19,000 it's a significant uptick in attendance the enterprise cloud market is changing you guys are disrupting yeah your thoughts and on what's happened since Tuesday night with James Hamilton laying up a secret sauce of silicon brows back it's not being touched by anybody else efficiencies scale yeah well you know for us it's it's unbelievable to see how many people are here a reinvent I as I said in the keynote yesterday we weren't sure the first year that we could get 4,000 people to come so to have 32,000 people here and 50,000 more on our live streams for the keynotes it's just it's really inspiring and you know our teams spend most their time thinking about new new customer experiences new features new capabilities that enable our customers to build more for their customers and then operating the services and for our team to have a chance to be here with all of our customers for a week and just see how excited people are about what we're doing the platform I mean you really feel it when you're here it's a movement and it's a movement because it allows builders to build customer experiences much quicker than ever before and change their businesses you guys got a spy nose juice got some specific questions on some specific points but I want to get your thoughts on the Amazon what I call spring in your step for the first time at reinvent have seen some bravado but more you know confidence around thinking a position Vernor Vogel said a Mediate that sometimes doesn't understand things or hey why do I want to get a lower price by doubling upfront enough seeing the sales guy you mentioning a little bit of Oracle and but mainly it's the themes around the old garden and a new way so I want you to take a minute to explain your view on this new way this new environment because you're comparing interesting old ways of doing things how people buy from IP suppliers how technology is coded deployed and this new way where the game is all new ballgame everywhere scale changes in how people buy our changing it can you share your thoughts on this new way yeah well that's a I mean there's so much that we could share in that area but I you know I think that if you think about what's different about a company like Amazon and a business like AWS relative to the companies who've been providing infrastructure for the last few decades there are a lot of differences but I'll list a few you know the first is I think many companies talk about being customer focused very few walk and I think Amazon in every business including AWS is extraordinarily customer focused everything we do starts with the customer moves backwards from there 90% of our roadmap but what we build is driven by what customers tell us matters and the other 10% we try to listen to a customer's of trying to articulate and then read in between the lines and invent on their behalf I'd say most of the big technology companies the old guard our competitor focused and that could be a successful strategy they can wait and see what others are gonna do and then try to one-up them it's just not ours we tend to be customer focused second thing is we are pioneers you know we we hire builders who look at customer experiences and see what's wrong with them and then figure out how to reinvent them most of the old guard technology companies have lost their will and their DNA to invent and so they acquire most their innovation and that can work too but I think in a space as dynamic as the cloud which is the biggest technology shift in our lifetime you are much better off with the partner that has the most functionality that's iterating the fastest the most amount of customers the biggest ecosystem who's had the vision for how these things fit together from the start and then the third thing I'd say is that we are unusually long-term oriented you know I think one of the standard old guard tactics is that when a deal is to be done at the end of the quarter or the end of the year they show up at your doorstep and they harass you till you sign a deal only to be heard from again a few years from now well you actually need to sign a new deal that is not the way that we pursue our business we're trying to build a business and instead of customer relationships that lasts all of us and so we operate we treat customers we think long term and we iterate in a different way than you see the old guard do and you wrote the business case for creating AWS I think if somebody you know wrote the case study today they you talk about the flywheel you talk about the effect that scale has on your business I think many look at it is your scale and that flywheel allowed you to kind of compress margins in the industry overall well you know you know right the next business case that was scale let's kind of say if margin and you know you talked about how the race to zero wasn't it beyond kind of ancho piece of scale what is the advantage that you have with the experience and the scale and you know is there a new flywheel that goes beyond what we've been talking about well you know I think that there will be multiple successful players in this space because the market segments is something like AWS addresses are trillions of dollars worldwide but there are gonna be 30 it's gonna be a small handful and it's in part because scale really matters and in part because the amount of functionality that you need for people to choose you as their primary infrastructure technology platform is massive and we have a lot more functionality by a large amount than anybody else now I think that if you look at a couple of the key criteria and reasons that we've been successful one of them is that we just have iterated so quickly I mean I think that the rate at which we deliver new capabilities for customers is pretty unusual I mean every day on average customers wake up and they have three new capabilities they can take advantage of just by virtue of being on the platform but we're also on top of just delivering quickly we're innovating at a really rapid rate I mean look at what we did in building the no sequel database DynamoDB they would build look at what we did in building our own database engineer Aurora which is the fastest growing service in the history of AWS we just made Postgres compatible yesterday look at what we announced on the IOT side yesterday with green grass and with snowball edge look at what we did even with snowmobile where it's been impossible for companies to move large amounts of data look at how many instances we have and then look at us bringing FPGA instances to the client the pace of raw innovation on the AWS platform is very unusual and I think what that does that creates its own flywheel where because you don't have to spend a hundred million dollars upfront to buy an infrastructure platform you only pay for what you use when you make the choice of who you're gonna partner with is your primary infrastructure platform you want the platform the the most capability because it allows you not just to move your existing apps but to be able to launch new ones and any any imaginable business idea you have so one of the advantages Amazon has had both on that the dot-com side and now in the it beside it your data you've got a lot of information I think about what actually said that's part of a new flywheel that you're gonna be doing how much of that data is just what Amazon's gonna be able to drive and how much will that kind of spread to the ecosystem and your customers is there data exchanges or how do you look at data well we certainly have a lot of data and a lot of models and a lot of deep learning capabilities and we expose several of those to the AI services we housed yesterday but I think one of the significant flywheels you'll see over times that so many customers are storing their data inside of AWS because they love our storage services and our data stores that they're gonna want to use that data and they're gonna want to layer on top of it all kinds of analytics services whether it's batch whether it's you know various hadoop applications whether it's real-time processing of streaming data they're gonna want to run their data warehouse off of it and they're gonna want to run machine learning models as well as their AI models on top of it and even though I think loads and loads of companies will use the AI services that we've released yesterday I think a lot of the biggest machine learning that's gonna happen is company's own data companies have huge amounts of data that they want to get better signal from and a lot of that data lives on AWS and they're gonna use a lot of the analytics and machine learning tools that we have to get more value from it and you want to ask you specifically around the cloud competition we've said on the queue I think for you so at the first main event that we were here it's not a winner-take-all to winner take most the multi cloud conversations been going around and that's been kind of confusing people as well one of my goals this year at the reinvent was to look at the VCS dig deep once all the parties talk to entrepreneurs I wanted to find out from the canary in the coalmine the startups the developers what their their sense was they all love AWS because you you had a great service for them but now as the competition comes in Microsoft in particular spending a lot of dough trying to lure them in through their ecosystem Google mean they just have some tech not a lot of Salesforce these terms want to build their own sales forces and might not want to compete with Oracle or or Microsoft together monsters Salesforce massive commission incentives all kinds of mechanics that they're doing in the day and that product may or may not be as strong as you guys what's your message to that group of people that want to win with you what do you say to those guys on how do you look at that and what are the how do you respond to their feedback and what's the outlook for them because that's a big question of people's mind is I love Amazon I want to win with them but I might be lured by well you know I think if you look at the startup market segment the vast majority of startups continue you choose AWS as their provider and in fact you could argue an even larger share than before and the reasons are a few fold number one at the end of the day what startups want is they're trying to build incredible businesses and they're often trying to build businesses where the idea never existed before and to do that well you need the broadest functionality you can get Native US has much broader functionality with anybody else there's also a much larger ecosystem around our platform so if you actually want to use other software in your business you want to be able to use it on the infrastructure technology platform that you choose and again many more info system providers in the ad avails platform but they also are building applications where even though they're startups these security and the availability those applications are a big deal and there's just a lot more maturity in the AWS platform because we've been at it a lot longer you can't learn some of those lessons until you get two different elbows of the curve and as Gardner has said because AWS has several times the aggregate size so the next 14 providers combined we just have a different scale on a different set of lessons now we also help our startups and we go to market with our startups and we have get in front of our customers we have a lot of enterprise customers on the platform we're super interested in the new technology and the new offerings that our startups have and we continue to put them in front of saying at obviously Google obviously that's on the cube actually this morning Google doesn't really have a sales force now not known for customer engagement they're known for technology and I kind of hinted that Amazon doesn't have many sales guys but you do apparently a lot of simple you talk about the number how many sales people what's the field organization look like and he clarified that potential misconception that Amazon is just a self-service cloud well when we launched AWS in 2006 we had two sales people and in fact one of the first calls our first sales person made was to Tom McCaskill is the CEO SmugMug who has been just an incredible customer of AWS and provided so much valuable feedback and the ten and a half years we've been to the market but since then we have a very large field team I mean this is this is not a small team it's a very large field team with a lot of sellers and a lot of solutions architects and a large process yeah I mean it's it's it's you know we don't disclose the exact number but it's thousands it's it's a significant team sellers solutions architects professional services training certification it's a big team and we're continuing to grow at a very rapid rate yeah Andy you know that rapid rate is amazing to watch because you know you've spoken to us before about you look for builders you look for people that you know want challenges and keep learning I've talked to you know a few friends this week that have joined Amazon and they said the culture is different in a good way and I want you to talk about kind of that Amazon ethos there's you know a lot of companies have like mission statements you guys have leadership principles that are up on your website I hear they are you know quoted quite regularly you know in in daily life and it's you know very different can maybe there's a little bit of insight on that well 14 leadership principles and I think they've been the single most important reason that we have been able to scale as fast as we have and scale across the world the way we have without losing our culture and you know there are so many of the leadership principles that I think are really interesting you know one of them has to do with hiring and developing the best and we are really vigilant about not lowering the bar when you're trying to hire as many people as we are at Amazon and AW is a big temptation is just a lower the bar to allow you to move quickly and that's always a mistake when you're trying to build great products for customers I like you know I'll give you a couple the leadership principles I like one is the leadership principle that's being right a lot and when we first started when we rolled out the leadership principles people thought being right a lot meant that it had to be their idea they had at the start that she went with the people would get dug in and argue for their idea but being a leader and being write a lot means that you get to the right answer regardless of whose idea was at the beginning and regardless of how many times you change your mind along the way great leaders change their minds when they get new information so I really like that leadership principle I also really like have backbone disagreeing commit and so what that leadership principle is about is we don't just make it an option we expect employees if they disagree with the direction we're headed regardless of seniority of anybody in the room that they speak up and say we're going the wrong direction we're doing the wrong thing for customers even if we end up making the same decision we're gonna make before we end up with more rigor and the decision and people can argue too you know as long as they want as respectfully as they as they can in making the point and we're at the end of the day a truth-seeking culture so you know that old adage about two people look at a ceiling and one says it's ten feet and the other says it's 14 feet and they say okay let's compromise it's 12 feet what's very rarely twelve feet and so when you have a truth-seeking culture like we have it encourages people to disagree and debate with one but then once we make a decision yeah the disagreeing commit means that even if it's not the direction you were advocating everybody has to get him seeking argument you could say well if the customers not involve which version of the truth the customer has to calibrate that right I mean from here Stanfill ultimately the cut I mean we try to get customers involved the decisions we're making and we we speak to cus for input from customers yeah and we get input all the time but there are also times when you're making these decisions where you can't perfectly know we're trying to make what we think is the right decision for customers we get it right a lot of the time and sometimes we don't and if we don't then we'll learn from it sign here I gotta get this in but I gotta ask you a personal question do you get worried that you guys might get too cocky I mean right now you're on a great run rate the traction is amazing for me personally see it it's pretty stuff you know proud about you guys do this I'm a big fan as you know we're customer but you do a great work how do you guys not get too cocky what's that ethos what do you guys what do you say the customers would say it a little too big for your britches and Ian team how do you calibrate that I think that a lot of that has to do with the culture of the team and I think if you look at the culture of this team it is not a cocky team it's not an arrogant team it's a customer focused team and we I mean I think we're pretty thrilled with how things have gone the first 10 and a half years I don't think any of us would have had the audacity to predict yeah that would be where we are but I think we all know that the next 10 years are gonna have even more innovation and changed in the first 10 years so that's what we're really focused on and you know one another one of our leadership principles says that you know great leaders don't believe that their body odor doesn't stink you know and that's really intended to say that we recognize that there's all kinds of things that we can be doing better yeah and we have to be a constantly learning organization and that's the way we think about our business we have a lot of management style content on silca Daniel my third part of my three-part series with Andy final question I want you to summarize your you know really well done you had some nice clever confident in there the whole superpowers a bombastic claim with some that validated with some meat good very clever I like how you did that how would you summarize the keynote did the boy look down to what you were trying to accomplish what were you trying to convey what was the core theme of your keynote yesterday morning yeah the core theme really is that with the cloud with AWS builders have capabilities that were never before available to them on premises or elsewhere and with those capabilities or superpowers it allows them really to take on any technical challenge that they're facing and to build and implement any idea they can dream up and you know that was really the theme and then you know sprinkled in there we had a few announcements the 14 to be precise yesterday and then some customers who I think you know I think are really vivid illustrations of really reinventing their businesses and building customer experiences that weren't easily possible before doing it on top of AWS well congratulations on all your success I know it's still early I know I know you don't get to coffee knowing knowing you firstly after after the little sitting down with you and reinventing is about pioneering so you got to be humble and congratulations Andy Jesse the CEO of Amazon Web Services here in the cube I'm Sean for Ace to many are you watching Silicon angles the cube we right back with more live coverage of ABS 2016 reinvent after this short break