>>The Cube presents Ignite 22, brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >>Welcome back to Vegas, guys and girls, it's great to have you with us. The Cube Live. Si finishing our second day of coverage of Palo Alto Ignite. 22 from MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Lisa Martin here with Dave Valante. Dave Cybersecurity is one of my favorite topics to talk about because it is so interesting. It is so dynamic. My other favorite thing is to hear the voice of our vendors' customers. And we could to >>Do that. I always love to have the customer on you get you get right to the heart of the matter. Yeah. Really understand. You know, what I like to do is sort of when I listen to the keynotes, try to see how well it aligns with what the customers are actually doing. Yeah. So let's >>Do it. We're gonna unpack that now. Michael Fagan joins us, the Chief Transformation Officer at Village Roadshow. Welcome Michael. It's great to have you >>And thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. >>So this is a really interesting entertainment company. I find the name interesting, but talk to us a little bit about Village Roadshow so the audience gets an understanding of all of the things that you guys do cuz theme parks is part of >>This. Yeah, so Village Road show's Australia's largest cinema exhibitor in conjunction with our partners at event. We also own and operate Australia's largest theme parks. We have Warner Brothers movie World, wet and Wild. SeaWorld Top Golf in Australia is, is operated by us plus more. We also do studio, we also own movie studios, so Aquaman, parts of the Caribbean. We're, we're filming our movie studios Elvis last year. And we also distribute and produce movies and TV shows. Quite diverse group. >>Yeah, you guys have won a lot of awards. I mean, I don't know, academy Awards, golden Globe, all that stuff, you know, and so it's good. Congratulations. Yeah. >>Thank you. >>Cool stuff. I wanna also, before we dig into the use case here, talk to us about the role of a chief transformation officer. How long have you been in that role? What does it encompass and what do you get to drive from a transformation perspective? Yeah, >>So the, the, the nature and pace of disruption is accelerating and on, on one side. And then on the other side, the running business as usual is becoming increasingly complex and, and more difficult to do. So running both simultaneously and at pace can put organizations at risk, both financially and and other ways. So in my role as Chief Transformation officer, I support the rest of the executive team by giving them additional capacity and also bring capability to the team that wasn't there before. So I do a lot of strategic and thought leadership. There's some executive coaching in there, a lot of financial modeling and analysis. And I believe that when a transformation role in particularly a chief transformation role is done correctly, it's a very hands-on role. So there's certain things where I, I dive right down and I'm actually hands in, hands-on leading teams or leading pieces of work. So I might be leading particular projects. I tried to drive profit revenue and profitability across the divisions and does any multi or cross-divisional opportunities or initiative, then I will, I will lead those. >>The transformation, you know, a while ago was cloud, right? Okay, hey, cloud and transformation officers, whether or not they had that title, we'll tell you, look, you gotta change the operating model. You can't just, you know, lift and shift in the cloud. That's, you know, that's pennies. We want, you know, big bucks. That's the operating. Now it's, I'm my question is, is did the pandemic just accelerate your transformation or, or was it, you know, deeper than that? >>Yeah, so what in my role have both digital and business transformation, some of it has been organizational. I think the pandemic has had a, a significant and long lasting effect on society, not just on, on business. So I think if you think about how work work used to be a, a place you went to and how it was done beforehand, before the, before COVID versus now where, you know, previously, you know, within the enterprise you had all of the users, you had all of the applications, you had all of the data, you had all of the people. And then since March, 2020, just overnight, that kind of inverted and, you know, you had people working from home and a person working from home as a branch office of one. So, so we ended up with another thousand branches literally overnight. A lot of the applications that we use are now SASS or cloud-based, whether that's timekeeping with Kronos or communica employee communication or work Jam. So they're not sitting within our data center, they're not sitting within, within our enterprise. It's all external. >>So from a security perspective, you obviously had to respond to that and we heard a lot about endpoint and cloud security and refactoring the network and identity. These guys aren't really an identity. They partner for that, but still a lot of change in focus that the CISO had to deal with. How, how did you guys respond to that? And, and you had a rush to do it. Yeah. And so as you sit back now, where do you go from here? >>Well we had, we had two major triggers for our, our network and security transformation. The first being COVID itself, and then the second beam, we had a, a major MPLS telco renewal that came up. So that gave you an opportunity to look at what we were doing and essentially our network was designed for a near, that no longer exists for when, for when p like I said, when people, when people were from home, all the applications were inside. So, and we had aging infrastructure, our firewalls were end of life. So initially we started off with an SD WAN at the SD WAN layer and an SD WAN implementation. But when we investigated and saw the security capabilities that are available now, we that to a full sassy WAN implementation. >>Why Palo Alto Networks? Because you, you had, you said you had an aging infrastructure designed for an era that doesn't exist anymore, but you also had a number of tools. We've been talking about a consolidation a lot the last couple days. Yeah. How did, what did you consolidate and why with Palo Alto? >>So we had a great partner in Australia, incidentally also called Cube. Cube Networks. Yeah. That we worked with great >>Names. Yeah, right. >>So we, so we, we worked for Cube. We ran a, a form of tender process. And Palo Alto with, you know, Prisma access and Global Global Protect was the only, the only solution that gave us everything that we needed in terms of network modernization, the agility that we required. So for example, in our theme part, we want to send out a hotdog cart or an ice cream cart, and that becomes, all of a sudden you got a new branch that I want to spin up this branch in 10 minutes and then I wanna spin it back down again. So from agility perspective, from a flexibility perspective, the security that, that we wanted, you know, from a zero trust perspective, and they were the only, certainly from a zero trust perspective, they're probably the only vendor that, that exists that, that actually provided the, the, all those capabilities. >>And did you consolidate tools or you were in the process of consolidating tools now? >>Yeah, so we actually, we actually consolidated down to, to, to a, to a single vendor. And in my previous role I had, I had implemented SD WAN before and you know, interoperability is a, is a major issue in the IT industry. I think there's, it's probably the only industry in the, the only industry I can think of certainly that where we, we ship products that aren't ready. They're not of all the features, they, they don't have all the features that they should have. They're their plans. They were releasing patches, releasing additional features every, every couple of months. So, you know, if you, if if Ford sold the card, I said, Hey, you're gonna give you backseats in a couple of months, they'd be uproar. But, but we do that all the time in, in it. So I had, when I previously implemented an Sdwan transformation, I had products from two tier one vendors that just didn't talk to one another. And so when I went and spoke to those vendors, they just went, well, it's not me. It's clearly, clearly those guys. So, so there's a lot to be said for having a, you know, a champion team rather than a team of champions. And Palo Alto have got that full stack fully integrated that was, you know, exactly meant what we were looking for. >>They've been talking a lot the last couple days about integration and it, and I've talked with some of their executives and some analysts as well, including Dave about that seems to be a differentiator for them because they really focus on that. Their m and a strategy is very, it seems to be very clear and there's purpose on that backend integration instead of leaving it to the customer, like Village Road show to do it. They also talked a lot about the consolidation. I'm just curious, Michael, in terms of like what you've heard at the show in the last couple of days. >>Yeah, I mean I've been hearing to same mess, but actually we've, we've lived in a >>You're living it. That's what I wanted to >>Know. So, so, you know, we had a choice of, you know, do you try and purchase so-called best of breed products and then put a lot of effort into integrating them and trying to get them to work, which is not really what we want to spend time doing. I don't, I don't wanna be famous for, you know, integration and, you know, great infrastructure. I want to be, I want Village to be famous for delivering great experiences to our customers. Memories that last a lifetime. And you know, when kids grow up in Australia, they, everybody remembers going to the theme parks. That's what, that's what I want our team to be doing and to be delivering those great experiences, not to be trying to plug together bits of software and it may or may not work and have vendors pointing at one another and then we are left carrying the cannon and holding the >>Baby. So what was the before and after, can you give us a sense as to how life changed, you know, pre that consolidation versus post? >>Yeah, so our, our, our infrastructure, say our infrastructure was designed for, you know, the, you know, old ways of working where we had you knowm routers that were, you know, not designed for cloud, for modern traffic, including cloud Destin traffic, an old MPLS network. We used to back haul all the traffic from, from our branches back to central location run where we've got, you know, firewall walls, we've got a dmz, we could run advanced inspection services on that. So if you had a branch that wanted to access a website that was housed next door, even if it was across the country, then it would, we would pull that all the way back to Melbourne. We would apply advanced inspection services to it, send it up to the cloud out back across the country. Traffic would come back, come down to us, back out to our branch. >>So you talk about crossing the country four times, even at the website is, is situated next door now with, with our sasi sdwan transformation just pops out to the cloud now straight away. And the, the difference in performance for our, for our team and for our customers, it, it's phenomenal. So you'll talk about saving minutes, you know, on a log on and, and seconds then and on, on an average transaction and second zone sound like a lot. But when you, it's every click up, they're saving a second and add up. You're talking about thousands of man hours every month that we've saved. >>If near Zuke were sitting right here and said, what could we do better? You know, what do you need from us that we're not delivering today that you want to, you want us to deliver that would change your life. Yeah, >>There's two things. One, one of which I think they're all, they're already doing, but I actually haven't experienced myself. It's around the autonomous digital experience management. So I've now got a thousand users who are sitting at home and they've got, when they've got a problem, I don't know, is it, is it my problem or is it their problem? So I know that p were working on a, an A solution that digital experience solution, which can actually tell, well actually know you're sitting in your kitchen and your routes in your front room, maybe you should move closer to the route. So there, there they, that's one thing. And the second thing is using AI to tell me things that I wouldn't be able to figure out with a human training. A lot of time sifting through data. So things like where I've potentially overcompensated and, you know, overdelivered on the network and security side or of potentially underdelivered on a security side. So having AI to, you know, assess all of those millions and probably billions of, you know, transactions and packets that are moving around our network and say, Hey, you could optimize it more if you, if you dial this down or dial this up. >>So you said earlier we, this industry has a habit of shipping products before, you know they're ready. So based on your experience, seems like, first of all, it sounds like you got a at least decent technical background as well. When do you expect to have that capability? Realistically? When can we expect that as an industry? >>I think I, I think, like I said, the the rate and nature of change is, is, I think it's accelerating. The halflife of degree is short. I think when I left university, what I, what I learned in first year was, was obsolete within five years, I'd say now it's probably obsolete of you. What'd you learn in first year? It's probably obsolete by the time you finish your degree. >>Six months. Yeah, >>It's true. So I think the, the, the rate of change and the, the partnership that I see Palo building with the likes of AWS and Google and that and how they're coming together to, to solve, to jointly solve these problems is I think we will see this within 12 months. >>Who, who are your clouds? You got multiple clouds >>Or We got multiple clouds. Mostly aws, but there are certain things that we run that run in run in Azure as well. We, we don't really have much in GCP or, or, or some of the other >>Azure for collaboration and teams, stuff like that. >>Ah, we, we run, we run SAP that's we hosted in, in Azure and our cinema ticketing system is, is was run in Azure. It's, it was only available in, in in Azure the time we're mo we are mostly an AWS >>Shop. And what do you do with aws? I mean, pretty much everything else is >>Much every, everything else, anything that's customer facing our websites, they give us great stability. Great, great availability, great performance, you know, we've had and, and, and, and a very variable as well. So, we'll, you know, our, our pattern of selling movie tickets is typically, you know, fairly flat except when, you know, there's a launch of a, of a new movie. So all of a sudden we might say you might sell, you know, at 9:00 AM when, you know, spider-Man went on sale last year, I think we sold 100 times the amount of tickets in the forest, 10 minutes. So our website didn't just scale look beautifully, just took in all of that extra traffic scale up. We're at only any intervention and then scale back down >>Taylor Swift needs that she does need that. So yeah. And so is your vision to have Palo Alto networks security infrastructure have be a common sort of layer across those clouds and maybe even some on-prem? Is it, are you, are you working toward that? Yeah, >>We, yeah, we, yeah, we, we'd love to have, you know, our end, our end customers don't really care about the infrastructure that we run. They won't be >>Able to unless it breaks. >>Unless it breaks. Yeah. They wanna be able to go to see a movie. Do you wanna be able to get on a rollercoaster? They wanna be able to go, you know, play around around a top golf. So having that convergence and that seamless integration of working across cloud network security now for most of our team, they, they don't know and they don't need to know. In fact, I, I frankly don't want them to know and be, be thinking about networks and clouds. I kind of want them thinking about how do we sell more cinema tickets? How do we give a great experience to our guests? How do we give long lasting lifetime memories to, to the people who come visit our parks? >>That's what they want. They want that experience. Right. I'd love to get your final thoughts on, we, we had you give a great overview of the ch the role that you play as Chief transformation officer. You own digital transformation, you want business transformation. What advice would you give to either other treat chief transformation officers, CISOs, CSOs, CEOs about partnering, what's the right partner to really improve your security posture? >>I think there's, there's two things. One is if you haven't looked at this in the last two years and made some changes, you're outta date. Yeah. Because the world has changed. We've seen, I mean, I've heard somebody say it was two decades worth of, I actually think it's probably five 50 years worth of change in, in Australia in terms of working habits. So one, you need to do something. Yeah. Need to, you need to have a look at this. The second thing I think is to try and partner with someone that has similar values to your organization. So Village is a, it's a wonderful, innovative company. Very agile. So the, like the, the concept of gold class cinema, so, you know, big proceeds, recliners, waiter service, elevated foods concept that, that was invented by village in 1997. Thank you. And we had thanks finally came to the states so decade later, I mean we would've had the CEO of every major cinema chain in the world come to come to Melbourne and have a look at what Village is doing and go, yeah, we're gonna export that back around around the world. It's probably one of, one of Australia's unknown exports. Yeah. So it's, yeah, so, so partnering. So we've got a great innovation history and we'd like to think of ourselves as pretty agile. So working with partners who are, have a similar thought process and, and managed to an outcome and not to a contract Yeah. Is, is important for us. >>It's all about outcomes. And you've had some great outcomes, Michael, thank you for joining us on the program, walking us through Village Roadshow, the challenges that you had, how you tackled them, and, and next time I think I'm in a movie theater and I'm in reclining chair, I'm gonna think about you and village. So thank you. We appreciate your insights, your time. Thank you. Thanks Michael. For Michael Fagan and Dave Valante. I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching The Cube. Our live coverage of Palo Alto Networks. Ignite comes to an end. We thank you so much for watching. We appreciate you. You're watching the Cube, the leader in live enterprise and emerging emerging tech coverage next year. >>Yeah.

>>live from Stanford University. It's the queue covering Stanford women in data science 2020. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >>Yeah, yeah. Hi. And welcome to the Cube. I'm your host, Sonia Atari. And we're live at Stanford University, covering the fifth annual Woods Women in Data Science Conference. Joining us today is Lillian Kearse. Keo, who's the Insights manager at Spotify. Slowly and welcome to the Cube. Thank you so much for having me. So tell us a little bit about your role at a Spotify. >>Yeah, So I'm actually one of the few insights managers in the personalization team. Um, and within my little group, we think about data and algorithms that help power the larger personalization experiences throughout Spotify. So, from your limits to discover weekly to your year and wrap stories to your experience on home and the search results, that's >>awesome. Can you tell us a little bit more about the personalization? Um, team? >>Yes. We actually have a variety of different product areas that come together to form the personalization mission, which is the mission is like the term that we use for a big department at Spotify, and we collaborate across different product areas to understand what are the foundational data sets and the foundational machine learning tools that are needed to be able to create features that a user can actually experience in the app? >>Great. Um, and so you're going to be on the career panel today? How do you feel about that? I'm >>really excited. Yeah, Yeah, the would seem is in a great job of bringing together Diverse is very, uh, it's overused term. Sometimes they're a very diverse group of people with lots of different types of experiences, which I think is core. So how I think about data science, it's a wide definition. And so I think it's great to show younger and mid career women all of the different career paths that we can all take. >>And what advice would you would you give to? Women were coming out of college right now about data science. >>Yeah, so my my big advice is to follow your interests. So there's so many different types of data science problems. You don't have to just go into a title that says data scientists or a team that says Data scientist, You can follow your interest into your data science. Use your data science skills in ways that might require a lot of collaboration or mixed methods, or work within a team where there are different types of different different types of expertise coming together to work on problems. >>And speaking of mixed methods, insights is a team that's a mixed methods research groups. So tell us more about that. Yes, I >>personally manage a data scientist, Um, user researcher and the three of us collaborate highly together across their disciplines. We also collaborate across research science, the research science team right into the product and engineering teams that are actually delivering the different products that users get to see. So it's highly collaborative, and the idea is to understand the problem. Space deeply together, be able to understand. What is it that we're trying to even just form in our head is like the need that a user work and human and user human has, um, in bringing in research from research scientists and the product side to be able to understand those needs and then actually have insights that another human, you know, a product owner you can really think through and understand the current space and like the product opportunities >>and to understand that user insight do use a B testing. >>We use a lot of >>a B testing, so that's core to how we think about our users at Spotify. So we use a lot of a B testing. We do a lot of offline experiments to understand the potential consequences or impact that certain interventions can have. But I think a B testing, you know, there's so much to learn about best practices there and where you're talking about a team that does foundational data and foundational features. You also have to think about unintended or second order effects of algorithmic a B test. So it's been just like a huge area of learning in a huge area of just very interesting outcomes. And like every test that we run, we learn a lot about not just the individual thing. We're testing with just the process overall. >>And, um, what are some features of Spotify that customers really love anything? Anything >>that's like we know use a daily mix people absolutely love every time that I make a new friend and I saw them what they work on there like I was just listening to my daily makes this morning discover weekly for people who really want >>to stay, >>you know, open to new music is also very popular. But I think the one that really takes it is any of the end of year wrapped campaigns that we have just the nostalgia that people have, even just for the last year. But in 2019 we were actually able to do 10 years, and that amount of nostalgia just went through the roof like people were just like, Oh my goodness, you captured the time that I broke up with that, you >>know, the 1st 5 years ago, or just like when I discovered that I love Taylor Swift, even though I didn't think I like their or something like that, you know? >>Are there any surprises or interesting stories that you have about, um, interesting user experiences? Yeah. >>I mean, I could give I >>can give you an example from my experience. So recently, A few a few months ago, I was scrolling through my home feed, and I noticed that one of the highly rated things for me was women in >>country, and I was like, Oh, that's kind of weird. I don't consider >>myself a country fan, right? And I was like having this moment where I went through this path of Wait, That's weird. Why would Why would this recommend? Why would the home screen recommend women in country, country music to me? And then when I click through it, um, it would show you a little bit of information about it because it had, you know, Dolly Parton. It had Margo Price and it had the high women and those were all artistes. And I've been listening to a lot, but I just had not formed an identity as a country music. And then I click through It was like, Oh, this is a great play list and I listen to it and it got me to the point where I was realizing I really actually do like country music when the stories were centered around women, that it was really fun to discover other artists that I wouldn't have otherwise jumped into as well. Based on the fact that I love the story writing and the song, writing these other country acts that >>so quickly discovered that so you have a degree in industrial mathematics, went to a liberal arts college on purpose because you want to try out different classes. So how is that diversity of education really helped >>you in your Yes, in my undergrad is from Smith College, which is a liberal arts school, very strong liberal arts foundation. And when I went to visit, one of the math professors that I met told me that he, you know, he considers studying math, not just to make you better at math, but that it makes you a better thinker. And you can take in much more information and sort of question assumptions and try to build a foundation for what? The problem that you're trying to think through is. And I just found that extremely interesting. And I also, you know, I haven't undeclared major in Latin American studies, and I studied like neuroscience and quantum physics for non experts and film class and all of these other things that I don't know if I would have had the same opportunity at a more technical school, and I just found it really challenging and satisfying to be able to push myself to think in different ways. I even took a poetry writing class I did not write good poetry, but the experience really stuck with me because it was about pushing myself outside of my own boundaries. >>And would you recommend having this kind of like diverse education to young women now who are looking >>and I absolutely love it? I mean, I think, you know, there's some people believe that instead of thinking about steam, we should be talking instead of thinking about stem. Rather, we should be talking about steam, which adds the arts education in there, and liberal arts is one of them. And I think that now, in these conversations that we have about biases in data and ML and AI and understanding, fairness and accountability, accountability bitterly, it's a hardware. Apparently, I think that a strong, uh, cross disciplinary collaborative and even on an individual level, cross disciplinary education is really the only way that we're gonna be able to make those connections to understand what kind of second order effects for having based on the decisions of parameters for a model. In a local sense, we're optimizing and doing a great job. But what are the global consequences of those decisions? And I think that that kind of interdisciplinary approach to education as an individual and collaboration as a team is really the only way. >>And speaking about bias. Earlier, we heard that diversity is great because it brings out new perspectives, and it also helps to reduce that unfair bias. So how it Spotify have you managed? Or has Spotify managed to create a more diverse team? >>Yeah, so I mean, it starts with recruiting. It starts with what kind of messaging we put out there, and there's a great team that thinks about that exclusively. And they're really pushing all of us as managers. As I seizes leaders to really think about the decisions in the way that we talk about things and all of these micro decisions that we make and how that creates an inclusive environments, it's not just about diversity. It's also about making people feel like this is where they should be. On a personal level, you know, I talk a lot with younger folks and people who are trying to just figure out what their place is in technology, whether it be because they come from a different culture, >>there are, >>you know, they might be gender, non binary. They might be women who feel like there is in a place for them. It's really about, You know, the things that I think about is because you're different. Your voice is needed even more. You know, like your voice matters and we need to figure out. And I always ask, How can I highlight your voice more? You know, how can I help? I have a tiny, tiny bit of power and influence. You know, more than some other folks. How can I help other people acquire that as well? >>Lilian, thank you so much for your insight. Thank you for being on the Cube. Thank you. I'm your host, Sonia today. Ari. Thank you for watching and stay tuned for more. Yeah, yeah.

(upbeat techno music) >> Narrator: From New York, it's theCUBE, Covering Escape/19. >> Okay, welcome back to theCUBE coverage here in New York City for the first inaugural Multi-Cloud Conference called Escape/2019 as in gathering of industry thought leaders, experts, entrepreneurs, engineers, really having substantive conversations around what multi-cloud is, what it's going to look like, what are some of the thing, technical and business opportunities around that, really small intimate conference. Again first inaugural conference. I'm here with my next guest to talk about that Chris Smith, Vice President of Engineering, on Data Science at Ticketmaster. Chris, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you very much Don. >> Appreciate taking the time. >> Glad to talk to you. >> Practitioner out there, you know, we all go scar tissue. >> Yes we do. >> If you don't have scar tissue, if you're not breaking things and then the learning from it then you're not advancing. But sometimes you don't want to step too far forward right? >> Yep, yep. >> Can you get back it's like you know. So you guys have a great experience. Legacy business, I remember buying tickets when I was going to conference back in the day when I was in, you know, in college. >> Yep. >> Buy it at Ticketmaster. >> That's right, that was Ticketmaster then, Ticketmaster now. >> Now it's lot of online provisioning of all direct to consumer. So you guys are a journey, tell the story. >> Well certainly, the company Ticketmaster, has had an incredibly long journey, starting back our first concert was Electric Light Orchestra which kind of like puts that in in context. >> (laughs) I was in eighth grade, '79. >> Yeah, yeah that was back at ASU. And even then we were a very innovative technology company we were making ticketing platforms that performed better, got more capacity out of the hardware than anybody else could do, anything close to that. We were really pioneered that idea of the what was at the time called the electronic ticket. Which was the idea that, you know, you could go to any store that was selling tickets for an event and the same inventory would be available at each store instead of the old model of a bunch of tickets getting sent out to each place >> That was bad-ass back in the day. >> That was really cutting edge and we've been evolving ever since then for 40 years. We were also very early onto the web scene. We were selling tickets online before anybody else was and before most people were selling anything online really to a degree. So we've been pioneers in a lot of areas, we see ourselves as the technology partner for the live events business. That's really what we are. And as a consequence, we're always sitting on that edge right? Trying to innovate and move to new opportunities but at the same time trying to provide that quality of experience at scale. >> Yeah. >> That is so critical to the business. >> And there's a big business so it's not like it's your nimble start up but you got to be agile. What are the learnings? Take us through the cloud learnings as you guys pioneered and started to go into that pioneering mode which was okay, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what a cloud's going to do. So you guys probably said hey, we got to go look at this, let's go pioneer our impact, take us through that what happened? >> Yeah absolutely, and I think there's two interesting contexts that started that conversation right? One was we're one of the few online businesses that launches a denial of services attack against itself on a regular basis, basically every day, right? And so we have traffic patterns that are unusual even for a typical e-commerce site where we might see loads that are a hundred x, you know beginning of a Taylor Swift on sale. There's going to be traffic like no one's business. And then when all her tickets are sold, there's not going to be nearly as much traffic right? And so that is the nature of our business and cloud is very attractive for its elastic capacity. When we were running on prim, we have to provide all that capacity all the time, just to have it for that one peak moment that might literally be the highest traffic level we see all year, right? So that drew a lot of the interest in looking at the cloud in the first place. And then the other aspect was we'd been working on, you know we'd been running on prim for nearly 40 years at the time and there is a lot of technical debt that had accumulated in the system at that point. And so, there was an interest in maybe potentially being able to leverage cloud vendors' infrastructure, and migrate systems onto that and then sort of declare bankruptcy on some of that technical debt rather than trying to pay it off. And so that, those were the two thoughts that were driving that conversation. I think we got really excited by the possibility and we committed really heavily to the idea of a strategy of just moving aggressively into the cloud as fast as we possibly could. And we knew that in the process, that we would be breaking some things, we'd be you know discovering some challenges et cetera, and that's definitely what happened, right? >> (laughs) What was the big learning? >> I think the biggest learning was that, you know, we had been developing systems for decades literally, with our on prim environment and so the systems were actually very well tuned for that on prim environment and that on prim environment was very well tuned for them. >> Yeah, yeah exactly. >> And it clouds use-- >> On all levels, hardware, software. >> Yeah, all the way through 'cause it's a fully integrated, vertically integrated solution. We build a lot of this stuff custom ourselves. >> John: Yeah, and we would decompose all that. >> And so it was very difficult to migrate some parts of that to the cloud and more importantly we're pretty smart guys, we can figure out how to move stuff into the cloud. But then to do it in a cost effective manner. Required in a lot of cases, really dramatically changing the design and architecture even of the software at a pretty fundamental level that you just can't do overnight. And so ironically, you know, the technical debt that we had in our infrastructure didn't seem quite so huge once you start thinking about the technical debt of the entire stack, right? And so then we realized that we could be much more strategic about how we went after our cloud strategy and that's kind of where we are now. Where we are being smart about, there's a lot of new products that are being developed, that, you know, we can build from the get go with the idea of them being designed for the cloud. >> Cloud native. >> Exactly, so we have a lot of stuff like that, that's just being built, in fact, the bulk of our website now when you go to visit it as a consumer, the bulk of that is running in the cloud right now. But, there are some really critical systems that are core to that experience, that are still running on prim. >> So you guys had to essentially re-architect the operating environment to take into account hybrid operating. >> Yes. >> Decoupling the critical systems that can't be tampered with, maybe put some containers of Kubernetes move some services around. But for the most part treat Cloud Native as Cloud Native, Greenfield apps and nurture-- >> Yeah but there's also refactoring opportunities. So there's a lot of opportunities where you need to go in and change the product anyway and that can be an opportunity to make things a lot more cloud friendly and better take advantage of the capabilities that the cloud has, so it's actually a mix of both. >> Give an example of a good opportunity to refactory, 'cause this comes up a lot in my CUBE interviews. Like okay, 'cause it's all opportunity, opportunistic, but what are the characteristics for a great refactoring opportunity the tune up? >> So a lot of times when you want to refactor really what you want to do is take a set of capabilities that you may have in a much larger system and pull 'em out and manipulate them and play around with them and do things differently. So, our ticket purchasing process we're constantly looking at tweaking the process. Now the core pieces of it remain the same right? But we might want to change the experience and provide something more innovative that's different from what people used to do. And so one of the areas we're working on for this as an example is reserve-less checkout. Where you just buy the ticket without ever actually reserving the seat. That's a very small minor change in the flow, but to make that really work you have to pull out the pieces of the system anyway right? And grab, say I want these four pieces to rearrange differently, so that's a great refactoring opportunity. You can make all those pieces, what we actually did is we've made those pieces into lambdas that are sitting in AWS, they're basically not running most of the time which is great. >> Yeah. (laughs) >> Really cheap when it's not running right? >> Yeah, exactly. >> Very efficient. But then when we need them they run very efficiently and more importantly we can now manipulate the order of operations for this stuff. So breaking things out into those composable parts whenever you know you need to do that anyway, it's a great opportunity to change it. >> So great for work flow refactoring there. >> Absolutely. >> Final question for you, I know we got to break for lunch, but, then really appreciate you coming and sharing your insight. >> Absolutely. >> As a pioneer in data science and data you got machine learning certainly is the engine of AI. AI gets math and cognition are kind of coming into it. Learning machines, deep learning, bla bla bla, what's your, in your opinion, what are some pioneering areas that are ripe pioneering grounds to dig into in data science and data? When you think about CloudScale, Hybrid and just, in general what are the ripe opportunities for people to pioneer in daily. What's the next frontier in your mind? >> So I think the trend right now that's maybe not the frontier, but it's now where the main shift is, is to moving into what I would call real time learning, right? Where you're doing refactor, reinforcement learning, or online learning of some form. Where you're literally, the data's arriving in real time, transforming your model in real time, learning in real time, that's key to our strategy and it's very very common. But I think in terms of where the frontiers are it's actually kind of everywhere, in the sense that the name of the game is the cost of doing that work is getting lower and lower. You know, data's getting cheaper, computes' getting cheaper, and also the products for doing it are getting more productized, so you need less expertise and you can deploy them more quickly. So what you want to look at is businesses that are traditionally been too low margin right? To apply machine learning to but have large scale, right? Which is like the commodity, everything in that's commoditized, right? Now there's an opportunity to, there's the cost have gone so low-- >> To squeeze insight out of those areas. >> That you can now optimize that small margin and get value from it with you know, otherwise like 10 years ago it would have been so costly to build a machine learning infrastructure for it. You would've lost more money than you would've gained. >> So you could, what your saying is, these areas that were not attractive because of cost in the past, that have large scale, there's penetration opportunities to create value and insight that could-- >> Absolutely. >> Bring in new franchises and new capabilities. >> And that's why I think you know the Andreessen's software's eating the world thing, that's what that's really about is as those costs get lower, as the ability to deploy gets easier, suddenly businesses that before didn't make any sense to invest in this way, they totally make sense and in fact there's huge opportunities to completely transform the landscape by getting in. >> Chris you're a man of our world, we love you, thank you for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. >> That's great insight. >> Look at this we're getting insider on the future of data, which I believe everything that he just said is totally relevant. You're an entrepreneur out there, you can attack big markets and get in there with a position with great IP, great intellectual property, again this is the modern world of computer science. >> It is. >> Don't ya think? >> It absolutely is. >> This is the benefit of scale and cloud. >> Absolutely. >> I wish I was 20 something years old again. (laughs) We've been through the ringer. >> Yes. >> Chris, thanks for coming on. Keep coverage here in New York for the first inaugural conference, Escape/2019, I'm John Furrier here, thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Magento Imagine 2019, brought to you by Adobe. >> Welcome back to theCUBE Lisa Martin with Jeff Frick and we are here live at Magento Imagine 2019, our second time being back here with theCUBE and we're very excited to welcome Brittany Hodak to theCUBE, entrepreneur, customer engagement speaker, writer, co-founder of the Superfan Company. Brittany it's so exciting to have you on theCUBE. >> Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. >> So, you have an incredibly impressive background and I'm like where do we start? >> Thank you. >> So, here we are talking about customer experiences and how Magento and Adobe empower a lot of customer experiences. But you've written a ton of articles, over 350, you've been published in the Huff Post, Wall Street Journal, talk to us about your experiences with customer engagement, some of the things that you as a co-founder of the Superfan have discovered working with a variety of brands from Walmart to Katy Perry? >> Well, thank you so much for saying that. I always say that the biggest problem brands and entertainers have is often one that's not even on their radar at all. I talked to a lot of small and medium sized business owners and they say, You know, my big problem is people don't know who I am. I've got an awareness problem. I'm struggling to let people know who I am. And I really think my business would change if more people knew. And I said, You know, that's not the problem. You can always fix awareness. You can always spend money to get your message out there. Your big problem is apathy. Your problem is there are people who know and don't care. And you've got to figure out how to make people care. You've got to figure out how to connect your story with their story in a way that's meaningful, and in a way that's going to mean something in their lives because that's how you really start the fan engagement process. That's how you lay the groundwork for creating a culture of super fandom amongst your customers, that's really going to help you grow not just the business but a brand. >> Is it about having a more relevant messages or is it just finding those people that have a propensity to be a fan to the services that you provide? >> Well, it's understanding your uniqueness in a way that really makes your value proposition different from anybody else is. Once you understand your uniqueness and you're able to turn it into service of others, that's when you really you position yourself to be able to make the kind of difference that makes somebody want to be a super fan. And I always say, we've had the fortune of working with tons of celebrities, some of the biggest recording artists and superstars on the planet, and a lot of times people say to me, Oh, you know, it's easy when you're talking about being a super fan of Taylor Swift or being a super fan of Katy Perry, but, you know, I'm a plumber or I'm an electrician, how can I have super fans? And I say, By providing people the kindness service that changes their lives. I have an exterminator who I am a super fan of. His name is Scott and the reason I am a super fan of him is because he makes sure there are no brown recluse spiders in my house and I am absolutely terrified about recluse spiders. They are super evil creatures if you're not familiar with them, I encourage you not to google it. They're like nastiest little bug in the world. But you know to me that's super important because he's not just killing bugs, he's helping me feel safe in my home. So that's absolutely a vital service and finding the right guy to do that and the right guy to put my mind at ease and let me know there aren't going to be brown recluse spiders in my house is invaluable and because of that, like there's no way I would ever switch exterminators because Scott's my guy. And I know you know, I can text him 50 different pictures of critters and say, Is this okay, Is this okay? And he's going to get back to me and let me know. So, it's all about points of connection and finding ways to make your audience feel really valued, and connecting your story with their story. >> So, if you look at an exterminator versus a Taylor Swift or Katy Perry or Walmart, are there similarities and what they need to do to deliver this service that's impacting lives? Or are there fundamental differences? >> There are some fundamental differences, but there's more overlap than you would think. And I always say, if you think about it like a Venn diagram, you've got your brand or your business, your service, your product, whatever it is that you're providing, and you've got your customers over here. Where the magic happens is that point of intersection, where your story overlaps with their story, that intersection, that's where super fandom happens. And I like to talk about something I call the four A's of super fandom. So, you can, I see a lot of people make the mistake of trying to talk to everybody the same way. So, whether somebody is encountering your brand for the very first time or has been your customer for a long time, using the same messaging for those people and that doesn't work. So, I talk a lot about the four A's. So, the first day is awareness. That's when somebody is first uncovering your brand, first interacting with your brand. The second a is action, that's when somebody is actually interacting with your brand for the first time. The third a is affinity. Those are the people who are fans of your brand. They've sort of bought into your why, these are the satisfied customers, I would say. And a lot of businesses stop there. They say, These are the people who are satisfied. These are the people who liked what I'm doing, they're buying from me. And that's a mistake that a lot of especially small and medium sized businesses make they sort of feel like, I've got these customers, I don't have to do anything else. They're not over delivering or over serving them which is a huge missed opportunity because if you do, you're able to convert people from that third A to the fourth a which is advocacy. And advocacy is where you want to get the majority of the people because those are your superfans so to speak, those are the ones who are out there sharing your story and your why with other people, helping refer new customers and new clients to you. So, I always say if you can get past the affinity, the people who are happy with you but not really talking about it and really make them feel valued. That's how you create advocates and advocacy is really the super secret sauce when you're talking about super fandom. >> So where should people get started to try to build super fandom within their client base? Is that really with the good customers that they already have, they try to get them to be advocates or I think most people spend so much time focusing on the fat end of the funnel as opposed to on the narrow end of the funnel and converting that transaction into a fan which is what it sounds like you're suggesting? >> Yeah, well, it's important to to focus on all parts of the funnel man, like I said that that awareness, that that fat of the top, you certainly need to be dealing with those people to get them further down. But the skinny part of the funnel is really where you want to make sure that people are continuing to drip out to the other side to make those referrals for you. So, absolutely focusing on everybody. One thing that I am always shocked I when I do consulting and work with small businesses and medium sized businesses, when I asked how much referral business they get, a lot of people don't know that number off the top of your head. So, if you're not tracking the amount of referrals, you absolutely need to know that as a metric, and the number one thing that you can do to increase the amount of referral business that you're getting is by asking your customers for referrals. It's so funny the amount of people who say, I hardly get any referral business at all. And I say, Well, when's the last time you asked? When's the last time that you went to one of your clients or your customers and said, I so appreciate your business. And I wonder if you know anybody in your network who could benefit from our product or service. And they say, oh I've never done that. But yeah, they wonder why they don't have any referrals so-- >> It seems like such an easy step but to your point, you're saying they're focusing on awareness, getting my brand, my service, my name out there, getting people to take action? >> Yes. >> And building that affinity and then I'm good, but that simply asking to make it a referral whether it's a yelp or something as simple as that seems like a pretty easy step. Strategically, how do you advise customers to get from that, take that if you look at it like a funnel like Jeff saying, take that group of affinity customers and convert some percentage to advocates, what's your strategy for helping a consumer brand or even a service provider, like an exterminator for actually making those conversions and then and then having that be a really kind of engine to drive referrals, to drive more leads to the top of that funnel? >> That's a great question. So, I like to talk about something I call the high five which is knowing the five most important people that have the potential to drive your business forward for the next quarter, the next year and the next five years. So, this is an actual list of five people. And any business owner hopefully can sit down and say, Here are the people that I need to really super serve in order to move my business forward. So knowing who those five people are, it could be an advisor, it could be an investor, it could be somebody you've never even met, maybe a thought leader whose thought that you really enjoy, that you think this person could really help me and open me up to a lot of people in their network if they knew who I was. Make a list of those five people, and then figure out how often you need to be doing something staying top of mind for those people. So for me, I like to make sure it's at least once every two weeks. So, sometimes it's as simple as sending an article and saying, Hey, I came across this article, I thought you would really love it, wanted to send it your way. Now and reality, did I just come across that article? No, I spent maybe an hour looking for the right article to forward that person. It's taking the time out to show them that they matter to you, so whether that's sending them a nice gift in the mail for no reason or a handwritten thank you note after they made an introduction for you. It's checking in on things, I always say, you should know what is important to the people who are important to you. You should know the teams that they follow, you should know their spouse, their children, the things that are happening in their lives so you can check in with them. And we live in an age where it's so easy to get information about anyone because all of us are putting content out there on the internet all the time about ourselves. So take the time to figure out what matters to those people who matter to you, and then stay top of mind, letting them know that they matter to you. So, like I said, for me, it's once every two weeks and I look at my list of five about every six months in terms of adding a couple of new people on maybe cycling some people off. But I've been doing this for four years. So, I have a list of 20 people. And I those are like my alums, some of the alumni of my high five, and I'm still extremely close with all of them. I still make sure that I'm trying to add value to them because having one person who's going to advocate for you could open the door for millions of dollars of revenue for you. So, it's just identifying who those people are, because to your point, it's impossible to sort of make everyone the most important person, it's impossible to take everyone at that third step and take them to the fourth step. So, rather than holistically thinking about it. I like to really drill in and say let's start with five. And if you've got 50 employees and you assign five people to each of those 50 employees to say make sure this vendor or make sure this customer, or make sure this partner feels very appreciated by you on a regular basis. You're going to, you really start to see the ROI very, very quickly in your business. >> So some of the trends, if we look at this we're all consumers of any kind of product service, we have this expectation, this growing expectation that we're going to be able to get whatever we want whenever we want it, have it delivered in an hour or a day, or so, we want to be able to have this experience on mobile, maybe started there, maybe finish it in the store, what are some of the trends that you're seeing that you recommend that the company with any product or service needs to get on board with, for example, this morning they were talking about progressive web apps and being able to deliver an experience where the person doesn't have to leave the app, or they can transact something like through Instagram. What are some of those top tools that you recommend to your broad client base. You got to get on board with like mobile, for example, right away. >> Yes, I was going to say the PWAs are absolutely critical, because I think we've all as consumers been in the situation of trying to load something on our phone, and it's five seconds goes by six seconds, I'm like forget about it. >> We're done. >> Yeah, I'm done, I'm over it. So PWAs is super important because it's all about putting your customer first and making things simple for them. The other thing is making sure that whatever system process you're using, everything needs to be connected. You can't be managing stuff across eight different platforms and expect for things not to fall through the cracks which is I'm learning so much here at Imagine and listening to all the best practices of people who are using Magento to manage every part of their business because something is seemingly minor as sending a confirmation email twice instead of once or having eight hours go by before the customer gets that, those types of things, say to a customer on a subliminal level, I'm not important, I don't matter, they're not putting me first. >> So just fan comes from fanatic. And there's great things about fans, and some times there's less great things about fans and we've seen a little bit of that here in terms of this really passionate community around Magento. And it was independent. And then it went to eBay and then it went back out of eBay. And now it's back in Adobe. And it's funny seeing the people that have been here for the whole journey. Part of that responsibility, if you're going to invite someone to be a fan is you have to let them participate, you have to let them contribute. And often which we're seeing, I guess, in Game of Thrones, I'm not a big fan, but if you get outside of kind of the realm of where the fans want things to go, it can also cause some conflict. So, how to people manage encouraging fans, really supporting fans, but at the same time not letting them completely knock their business off or hold the business back probably from places where the entrepreneur needs to still go? >> That's a great question. There was a really fascinating study that Viacom did a couple of years ago about fans. And especially in the under 35 sets, so millennials, gen Z. And the vast majority of people felt like fans have some ownership of the thing that they're a fan of. And that's a really interesting study in psychology to think about these people who feel the ownership. But you know, it's true. You mentioned Game of Thrones, that's a great example of seeing these fan bases who come up with names for themselves, and who are tweeting in real time about things that are happening. Magento a great example because open source has been such an important part of the culture and the history of the platform. These people feel in a very real sense this ownership. And you're right, I think sometimes that scares small business owners, medium sized business owners. They say, Well, we don't want to relinquish control. We don't want to put ourselves in a situation where we're upsetting people. And I would say, You're right, fan comes from the word fanatic. And that fanaticism, that passion is something you absolutely want. Because I would argue that a greater threat than that is what I was talking about earlier, which is apathy. You don't want people to be like, I don't care. And passion is of course, the opposite of apathy. And that's what you're looking for. So I would say, are you going to put yourself in a position where sometimes there could be a disagreement, you could upset somebody? Absolutely, but you those are the people, it's like if you're in a relationship with somebody and you have a fight that passion that's there is because there's care on both sides. You're both super engaged, you're both very passionate about your position. So, having a system in place to defuse that by saying, I hear you I understand where you're coming from, let's figure this out together, is part of the customer service staff that you've just got to prepare for. >> Can you using, sorry Brittany, using all this data that's available that Magento, Adobe et cetera can deliver and enable organizations to understand that and maybe even kind of marry those behaviors with apathy on one hand passion on the other and how do we get to that happy medium? >> Exactly, how do we get to the happy medium, what are the data points that matter? How are we, the idea of super fan means something different to every organization. So, part of it is uncovering what it is that really matters to you. I always say a super fan is somebody who over indexes and their affinity for a product, service, brand, entertainer, therefore increasing the chance that they're going to advocate on its behalf. So, thinking about, there could be people who are spending a lot of money with your brand who just aren't really that passionate about it. They're not going to tell people and that's fine. But those aren't the people who would be a quote unquote superfan, even though they may be spending a lot of money with you. So, it's figuring out what the markers are that are important to your brand or service. I work with a lot of brands on this because it really is different for everyone. But figuring out who those people are and then talking to them because this is something that, there's so much psychology around the why. Like why people behave the way we do that the consumer behavior, the internal and philosophical drives that are making us make the decisions that we make and the best way to uncover that is to talk to your customers because a lot of times you'll learn so much about your brand, you'll find so many things. I always love talking to recording artists about this, they put out a new song or a new album and in the fans find all these hidden messages >> Taylor is known for that. >> Always some-- >> Taylor is one of the best in the world. And a lot of times artists will say, Oh, yeah, like, I didn't do that on purpose but I'm totally going to take credit for it because these fans found it. And oh, yeah, of course, I meant to do that. So, you'll find that some of these customers understand your brand oftentimes better than you do which is a really fun thing. >> It's also just the ecosystem. You my favorite one always reference is Harley Davidson, guess how many brands get tattooed on people's arms, and just the whole ecosystem of other products that were built up around the motorcycle, and to support kind of that community they weren't getting any nickels necessarily if somebody sold a saddle bag or a leather jacket, or whatever but it was such and it still is, I think such a vibrant community again, and as evidence by you put a tattoo on your arm that it's something to strive for, not easy to get. >> Why we always say build a brand not a business because the brand are those things that people are connecting to. We were talking about NASA before we started filming. I'm a huge space geek and Lisa loves space having worked for NASA in the past and that's one of those things, I don't know this to be true but I got to believe NASA way outpaces like every other combined government agency in licensing. I mean, people walk around wearing NASA logos on everything >> I saw at least three of them this morning. >> Yeah, I mean, I bought in the last month, probably three different NASA licensed products. So I mean that's the passion that if you can connect to somebody on an emotional level and make your story part of their story. They want to represent it, they want to get that Harley tattooed on their arm. >> That emotional connection but also that personalization that's key? >> Yes. >> What's difference in from your perspective on a superfan versus an influencer? Are they one in the same? >> It's a great question. So, they a lot of times are one in the same and that same Viacom study that I mentioned earlier. Something like two thirds of people said that they consider themselves to be pop culture influencers which sounds like a lot. But if you think about it, pretty much everyone is an influencer and that's because for Nielsen, the most trusted recommendation is or the most trusted form advertising is a recommendation from a friend or a family member, 92% of people trust a recommendation from a friend or family member, which far outpaces every other form of advertising. So in a lot of ways, these micro influencers are the next wave of advertising. These advocates or these super fans are, I think in many ways an untapped well of resources for the fans who drill in and you mentioned Taylor Swift before. How many people listen to Taylor Swift for the first time because a friend suggested they listen to Taylor Swift. I would argue that lots and lots of people and Taylor said something to me years ago that like a former manager, or someone said to her, and that was, if you want to sell half a million albums, you're going to have to meet half a million people. That was said to her when she was like, 15, 16 years old and she thought, okay, yeah, I'm going to go meet half a million people. I'm going to be befriend them, I'm going to listen to their stories, I'm going to let them know what they say matters to me. And here we are, she sold, I don't know, 50, 60 million albums, however many she sold worldwide. And but that's really where it starts, that one to one connection. >> Seems to just kind of all go back to referral. And isn't that sort of the basic human connection? It's like, are we trying to over-complicate this with all these different tools that simply, even with hiring and tech or whatever industry, referrals are so much more important because you've got some sort of connection to a brand or a person or a product or service. >> You've got that connection, you've got somebody who's already very well qualified. And I like to talk about something that I call the wave method which the wave is a ritual hello, goodbye. How many times a day do you wave at people, countless. And virtually you say hello to tons of people everyday. People who are coming to one of your social pages, people who are engaging with your website. So I say, I encourage people to think about that hello and goodbye, that interaction. Think of a wave as an acronym and ask yourself, are you making everybody who's going to come into contact with you today feel welcomed? Is there something on your virtual site or in your real storefront. If you're a brick and mortar business that's going to make people feel welcomed? How are you making them feel like they belong? The A is appreciated, how are you letting those people know that they are appreciated by your business? I think I know I have often felt like I'm a number or I don't matter. Utility companies are notorious for this for making you feel like they don't really care if they have your business or not. Or they know perhaps that they're going to because there's not like a different water company you can you can use it your home. And that sucks, like we've all been made to feel like we weren't appreciated by somebody that we were doing a financial transaction with. So ask yourself, how can you make your potential and current customers feel appreciated? The V stands for validated, and one of the best quotes that I've ever come across is from Oprah. On her last episode, she was imparting some of the lessons that she had learned over the years of hosting her shows and she said she'd interviewed something like 30,000 people over the years, and they all wanted the same thing. And that was validation. They all want it to feel like they were important and their feelings mattered. I see you, I hear you what you're saying is important to me. So, validate your customers. One big mistake that I see people make all the time in customer service is when somebody has a complaint, having your rebuttal be like, Oh, I've never heard that before. Or it's 10,000 people haven't have had great experiences. That's absolutely the worst thing that you can ever say to somebody because you're bringing in other experiences that don't matter to them. It's a one to one conversation. It's a one to one relationship. So bringing in, that's like having a fight with your significant other and saying like, Well none of the women I dated before you ever had a problem with this, like how well is that going to go over? Like you don't want to bring in other experiences. So that V and wave validated >> And the E? >> and then the E is excited, making people feel excited because that passion, having people feel like you know you're excited that they're a customer of yours and you can bring something that's going to make their lives better is the most important key. >> Brittany, thank you so much. I could keep talking to ya. I wish we didn't end but we do, for sharing your experiences, your expertise, your recommendations on becoming any kind of brand with any product or service, generating the super fans. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much. It was so great speaking with you guys today. >> Ditto. >> Thanks. >> For Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching this on theCUBE live from Magento Imagine 2019 from Vegas, thanks for watching.

[Music] and y'all know that these [Music] ladies and gentlemen please take your seats and silence your cellphone's our program will begin shortly ladies and gentlemen please welcome Red Hat executive vice president and chief people officer dallisa Alexander an executive vice president and chief marketing officer Tim Layton [Music] hi everyone we're so excited to kick off this afternoon day 2 at the Red Hat summit we've got a stage full of stories about people making amazing contributions with open source well you know dallisa you and I both been coming to this event for a long long time so what keeps you coming back well you know the summit started as a tech conference an amazing tech conference but now it's expanded to be so much more this year I'm really thrilled that we're able to showcase the power of open source going way beyond the data center and beyond the cloud and I'm here also on a secret mission oh yes I'm here to make sure you don't make too many bad dad jokes so there's no such thing as a bad dad they're just dad jokes are supposed to be bad but I promise to keep it to my limit but I do have one okay I may appeal to the geeks in the audience okay so what do you call a serving tray full of empty beer cans yeah we container platform well that is your one just the one that's what I only got a budget of one all right well you know I have to say though in all seriousness I'm with you yeah I've been coming to the summit since its first one and I always love to hear what new directions people are scoring what ideas they're pursuing and the perspectives they bring and this afternoon for example you're gonna hear a host of different perspectives from a lot of voices you wouldn't often see on a technology mainstage in our industry and it's all part of our open source series live and I have to say there's been a lot of good buzz about this session all week and I'm truly honored and inspired to be able to introduce them all later this afternoon I can tell you over the course the last few weeks I've spent time with all of them and every single one of them is brilliant they're an innovator they're fearless and they will restore your faith in the next generation you know I can't wait to see all these stories all of that and we've got some special guests that are surprised in store for us you know one of the things that I love about the people that are coming on the stage today with us is that so many of them teach others how to code and they're also bringing more people that are very different in to our open-source communities helping our community is more innovative and impactful and speaking of innovative and impactful that's the purpose of our open brand project right that's right we're actually in the process of exploring a refresh of our mark and we'd really like your help as well because we're doing this all in the open we've we've been doing it already in the open and so please join us in our feedback zone booth at the summit to tell us what you think now it's probably obvious but I'm big into Red Hat swag I've got the shirt I've got my pen I've got the socks so this is really important to me personally especially that when my 15 year old daughter sees me in my full regalia she calls me adorable okay that joke was fed horrible as you're done it wasn't it wasn't like I got way more well Tim thanks for helping us at this stage for today it's time to get started with our first guest all right I'll be back soon thank you the people I'm about to bring on the stage are making outstanding contributions to open source in new and brave ways they are the winners of the 2018 women and open source Awards the women in open source awards was created to highlight the contributions that women are making to open source and to inspire new generations to join the movement our judges narrowed down the panel a very long list just ten finalists and then the community selected our two winners that were honoring today let's learn a little bit more about them [Music] a lot of people assume because of my work that I must be a programmer engineer when in fact I specifically chose and communications paths for my career but what's fascinating to me is I was able to combine my love of Communications and helping people with technology and interesting ways I'm able to not be bound by the assumptions that everybody has about what the technology can and should be doing and can really ask the question of what if it could be different I always knew I wanted to be in healthcare just because I feel like has the most impact in helping people a lot of what I've been working on is geared towards developing technology and the health space towards developing world one of the coolest things about open-source is bringing people together working with other people to accomplish amazing things there's so many different projects that you could get involved in you don't even have to be the smartest person to be able to make impact when you're actually developing for someone I think it's really important to understand the need when you're pushing innovation forward sometimes the cooler thing is not [Music] for both of us to have kind of a health care focus I think it's cool because so many people don't think about health care as being something that open-source can contribute to it took a while for it to even get to the stage where it is now where people can open-source develop on concepts and health and it's an untapped potential to moving the world for this award is really about highlighting the work of dozens of women and men in this open source community that have made this project possible so I'm excited for more people to kind of turn their open-source interest in healthcare exciting here is just so much [Music] I am so honored to be able to welcome to the stage some brilliant women and opensource first one of our esteemed judges Denise Dumas VP of software engineering at Red Hat she's going to come up and share her insights on the judging process Denise so you've been judging since the very beginning 2015 what does this judge this being a judge represents you what does the award mean to you you know every year it becomes more and more challenging to select the women an opensource winner because every year we get more nominees and the quality of the submissions well there are women involved in so many fabulous projects so the things that I look for are the things that I value an open source initiative using technology to solve real world problems a work ethic that includes sin patches and altruism and I think that you'll see that this year's nominees this year's winners really epitomize those qualities totally agree shall we bring them on let's bring them on let's welcome to the stage Zoe de gay and Dana Lewis [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] alright let's take a seat [Applause] well you both have had an interesting path to open-source zuy you're a biomedical engineering student any of it you have a degree in public relations tell us what led to your involvement and open source yeah so coming to college I was new I was interested in science but I didn't want to be a medical doctor and I didn't want to get involved in wet lab research so through classes I was taking oh that's why I did biomedical engineering and through classes I was taking I found the classroom to be very dry and I didn't know how how can I apply what I'm learning and so I got involved in a lot of entrepreneurship on campus and through one of the projects I was asked to build a front end and I had no idea how to go about doing that and I had some basic rudimentary coding knowledge and what happened was I got and was digging deep and then found an open source library that was basically building a similar thing that I needed and that was where I learned about open source and I went from there now I'm really excited to be able to contribute to many communities and work on a variety of projects amazing contributions Dana tell us about your journey well I come from a non-traditional background but I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 14 and over the next couple years got really frustrated with the limitations of my own diabetes devices but felt like I couldn't change them because that wasn't my job as a patient but it was actually through social media I discovered someone who had solved one of the problems that I had been found having which was getting date off my diabetes device and that's how I learned about open source was when he was willing to share his code with me so when we turned around and made this hybrid closed-loop artificial pancreas system it was a no brainer to make our work open source as well that's right absolutely and we see using the hash tag we are not waiting can you tell us about that yeah so this hash tag was created actually before I even discovered the open source diabetes world but I loved it because it really illustrates exactly the fact that we have this amazing technology in our hands in our pockets and we can solve some of our most common problems so yes you could wait but waiting is now a choice with open source we have the ability to solve some of our hardest problems even problems dealing with life and death that's great so zuy with the vaccine carrier system that you helped to build how were you able to identify the need and where did you build it yes so I think before you even build anything first need to understand what is the problem that you're trying to solve and that really was the case when starting this project I got to collaborate with engineers in Kampala Uganda and travel there and actually interview stakeholders in the medical field medical doctors as well as pharmaceutical companies and from there I really got to understand the health system there as well as what is how do vaccines enter the country and how can we solve this problem and that's how we came up with the solution for an IOT based vaccine carrier tracking system I think it's really important especially today when products might be flashy to also understand what is the need behind it and how do we solve problems with these products yeah yeah it's so interesting how both of you have this interest in health care Dana how do you see open-source playing a role in healthcare but first before you answer that tell us about your shirt so this shirt has the code of my artificial pancreas on it and I love it as an illustration of no thank you I love it as an illustration of how open-source is more than we think it is I've just been blown away by the contributions of people in my open-source communities and I think that that is what we should apply to all of healthcare there's a lot of tools and technologies that are solving real world problems and I think if we take what we know in technology and apply it to healthcare we'll solve a lot of problems more quickly but it really needs to be recognizing everything an open source it's the documentation it's the collaboration it's the problem-solving it's working together to take technologies that we didn't previously think we're applicable and finding new ways to apply it it's a great answer Sooey yeah I think especially where healthcare is related to people and open-source is the right way to collaborate with people all over the world especially in the project I've been working on we're looking at vaccines in Uganda but the same system can be applied in any other country and then you can look at cross countries health systems there and from there it becomes bigger and bigger and I think it's really important for people who have an idea and want to take it further to know that open-source is a way that you could actually take your idea further whether you have a technical background or not so yeah stories are amazing you're just an inspiration for everyone in open-source I want to thank you so much for joining us here today let's give another round of applause to our winners [Applause] [Music] you know the tagline for the award is honor celebrate inspire and I feel like we've been doing that today very very well and I know that so many people have been inspired today especially the next generation who go on to do things we can't even dream of yet [Music] I think collabs important because we need to make sure we get younger children interested in technology so that they understand the value of it but also that there are a lot of powerful women in technology and they can be one of them I hope after this experience maybe we'll get some engineers and some girls working our hot so cool right well we have some special guests convite for the club stage now I'd like to invite Tim back and also introduce Red Hat's own Jamie Chappell along with our collab students please welcome Gabby tenzen Sofia lyric Camila and a Volyn [Applause] you've been waiting for this moment for a while we're so excited hear all about your experiences but Jamie first tell us about collab sure so collab is red hats way of teaching students about the power of open source and collaboration we kicked off a little over a year ago in Boston and that was so successful that we decided to embark on an East Coast tour so in October we made stops at middle schools in New York DC and Raleigh and these amazing people over here are from that tour and this week they have gone from student to teacher so they've hosted two workshops where they have taught Red Hat summit attendees how to turn raspberry pies into digital cameras they assigned a poem song of the open road by Walt Whitman and they've been working at the open source stories booth helping to curate photos for an installation we're excited to finish up tomorrow so amazing and welcome future women in open source we want to know all about your experiences getting involved can you tell us tenzen tell us about something you've learned so during my experience with collab I learned many things but though however the ones that I valued the most were open source and women empowerment I just I was just so fascinated about how woman were creating and inventing things for the development of Technology which was really cool and I also learned about how open source OH was free and how anyone could access it and so I also learned that many people could you know add information to it so that other people could you learn from it and use it as well and during Monday's dinner I got this card saying that the world needed more people like you and I realized through my experience with collab that the world does not only need people like me but also everyone else to create great technology so ladies you know as you were working on your cameras and the coding was there a moment in time that you had an AHA experience and I'm really getting this and I can do this yes there was an aha moment because midway through I kind of figured out well this piece of the camera went this way and this piece of the camera did it go that way and I also figured out different features that were on the camera during the camera build I had to aha moments while I was making my camera the first one was during the process of making my camera where I realized I was doing something wrong and I had to collaborate with my peers in order to troubleshoot and we realize I was doing something wrong multiple times and I had to redo it and redo it but finally I felt accomplished because I finished something I worked hard on and my second aha moment was after I finished building my camera I just stared at it and I was in shock because I built something great and it was so such a nice feeling so we talked a lot about collaboration when we were at the lab tell us about how learning about collaboration in the lab is different than in school so in school collaboration is usually few and far between so when we went to collab it allowed us to develop new skills of creativity and joining our ideas with others to make something bigger and better and also allowed us to practice lots of cooperation an example of this is in my group everybody had a different problem with their pie camera and we had to use our different strengths to like help each other out and everybody ended up assembling and working PI camera great great awesome collaboration in collab and the school is very different because in collab we were more interactive more hands-on and we had to work closer together to achieve our own goals and collaboration isn't just about working together but also combining different ideas from different people to get a product that is so much better than some of its parts so girls one other interesting observation this actually may be for the benefit of the folks in our audience but out here we have represented literally hundreds and hundreds of companies all of whom are going to be actually looking for you to come to work for them after today we get first dibs that's right but um you know if you were to have a chance to speak to these companies and say what is it that they could do to help inspire you know your your friends and peers and get them excited about open source what would you say to them well I'm pretty sure we all have app store and I'm pretty sure we've all downloaded an app on that App Store well instead of us downloading app State well the computer companies or the phone companies they could give us the opportunity to program our own app and we could put it on the App Store great idea absolutely I've got to tell you I have a 15 year old daughter and I think you're all going to be an inspiration to her for the same absolutely so much so I see you brought some cameras why don't we go down and take a picture let's do it [Applause] all right I will play my very proud collab moderator role all right so one two three collab okay one two three [Applause] yeah so we're gonna let leave you and let you tell us more open source stories all right well thank you great job thank you all and enjoy the rest of your time at Summit so appreciate it thanks thank you everyone pretty awesome pretty awesome and I would just like to say they truly are fedorable that's just um so if you would like to learn more as you heard the girls say they're actually Manning our open-source stories booth at the summit you know please come down and say hello the stories you've seen thus far from our women and open-source winners as well as our co-op students are really bringing to life the theme of this year's summit the theme of ideas worth exploring and in that spirit what we'd like to do is explore another one today and that is how open-source concepts thrive and expand in the neverending organic way that they do much like the universe metaphor that you see us using here it's expanding in new perspectives and new ideas with voices beyond their traditional all starting to make open-source much bigger than what it was originally started as fact open-source goes back a long way long before actually the term existed in those early days you know in the early 80s and the like most open-source projects were sort of loosely organized collections of self-interested developers who are really trying to build low-cost more accessible replicas of commercial software yet here we are 2018 the world is completely different the open-source collaborative development model is the font of almost all original new innovation in software and they're driven from communities communities of innovation RedHat of course has been very fortunate to have been able to build an extraordinary company you know whose development model is harnessing these open-source innovations and in turning them into technologies consumable by companies even for their most mission-critical applications the theme for today though is we see open-source this open source style collaboration and innovation moving beyond just software this collaborative community innovation is starting to impact many facets of society and you're starting to see that even with the talks we've had already too and this explosion of community driven innovation you know is again akin to this universe metaphor it expands in all directions in a very organic way so for red hat you know being both beneficiaries of this approach and stewards of the open collaboration model we see it important for us to give voice to this broader view of open source stories now when we say open source in this context of course will meaning much more than just technology it's the style of collaboration the style of interaction it's the application of open source style methods to the innovation process it's all about accelerating innovation and expanding knowledge and this can be applied to a whole range of human endeavors of course in education as we just saw today on stage in agriculture in AI as the open source stories we shared at last year's summit in emerging industries like healthcare as we just saw in manufacturing even the arts all these are areas that are now starting to benefit from collaboration in driving innovation but do we see this potentially applying to almost any area of human endeavor and it expands again organically expanding existing communities with the addition of new voices and new participants catalyzing new communities and new innovations in new areas as we were talking about and even being applied inside organizations so that individual companies and teams can get the same collaborative innovation effects and most profound certainly in my perspective is so the limitless bounds that exist for how this open collaboration can start to impact some of humankind's most fundamental challenges we saw a couple of examples in fact with our women and open-source winners you know that's amazing but it also potentially is just the tip of the iceberg so we think it's important that these ideas you know as they continue to expand our best told through storytelling because it's a way that you can embrace them and find your own inspirations and that's fundamentally the vision behind our open-source stories and it's all about you know building on what's come before you know the term we use often is stay the shoulders are giants for a lot of the young people that you've seen on this stage and you're about to see on this stage you all are those giants you're the reason and an hour appears around the world are the reasons that open-source continues to expand for them you are those giants the other thing is we all particularly in this room those of us have been around open-source we have an open-source story of our own you know how were you introduced the power of open-source how did you engage a community who inspired you to participate those are all interesting elements of our personal open-source stories and in most cases each of them are punctuated by you here my question to the girls on stage an aha moment or aha moments you know that that moment of realization that enlightens you and causes you to think differently and to illustrate I'm going to spend just a few minutes sharing my open-source story for for one fundamental reason I've been in this industry for 38 years I am a living witness to the entire life of open-source going back to the early 80s I've been doing this in the open-source corner of the industry since the beginning if you've listened to Sirhan's command-line heroes podcasts my personal open story will actually be quite familiar with you because my arc is the same as the first several podcast as she talked about I'm sort of a walking history lesson in fact of open source I wound up at most of the defining moments that should have changed how we did this not that I was particularly part of the catalyst I was just there you know sort of like the Forrest Gump of open-source I was at all these historical things but I was never really sure how it went up there but it sure was interesting so with that as a little bit of context I'm just gonna share my aha moment how did I come to be you know a 59 year old in this industry for 38 years totally passionate about not just open source driving software innovation but what open source collaboration can do for Humanity so in my experience I had three aha moments I just like to share with you the first was in the early 80s and it was when I was introduced to the UNIX operating system and by the way if you have a ha moment in the 80s this is what it looks like so 1982 mustache 19 where were you 2018 beard that took a long time to do all right so as I said my first aha moment was about the technology itself in those early days of the 80s I became a product manager and what at the time was digital equipment corporation's workstation group and I was immediately drawn to UNIX I mean certainly these this is the early UNIX workstation so the user interface was cool but what I really loved was the ability to do interactive programming via the shell but by a--basically the command line and because it was my day job to help figure out where we took these technologies I was able to both work and learn and play all from the same platform so that alone was was really cool it was a very accessible platform the other thing that was interesting about UNIX is it was built with networking and and engagement in mind had its own networking stack built in tcp/ip of course and actually built in a set of services for those who've been around for a while think back to things like news groups and email lists those were the first enablers for cross internet collaboration and that was really the the elements that really spoke to me he said AHA to me that you know this technology is accessible and it lets people engage so that was my first aha moment my second aha moment came a little bit later at this point I was an executive actually running Digital Equipment Corporation UNIX systems division and it was at a time where the UNIX wars were raging right all these companies we all compartmentalized Trump those of the community and in the end it became an existential threat to the platform itself and we came to the point where we realized we needed to actually do something we needed to get ahead of this or UNIX would be doomed the particular way we came together was something called cozy but most importantly the the technique we learned was right under our noses and it was in the area of distributed computing distributed client-server computing inherently heterogenous and all these same companies that were fierce competitors at the operating system level were collaborating incredibly well around defining the generation of client-server and distributed computing technologies and it was all being done in open source under actually a BSD license initially and Microsoft was a participant Microsoft joined the open group which was the converged standards body that was driving this and they participated to ensure there was interoperability with Windows and and.net at the time now it's no spoiler alert that UNIX lost right we did but two really important things came out of that that sort of formed the basis of my second aha moment the first is as an industry we were learning how to collaborate right we were leveraging open source licenses we realized that you know these complex technologies are best done together and that was a huge epiphany for the industry at that time and the second of course is that event is what opened the door for Linux to actually solve that problem so my second aha was all about the open collaboration model works now at this point to be perfectly candidates late 1998 well we've been acquired by compacts when I'm doing the basically same role at Compaq and I really had embraced what the potential impact of this was going to be to the industry Linux was gaining traction there were a lot of open source projects emerging in distributed computing in other areas so it was pretty clear to me that the in business impact was going to be significant and and that register for me but there was seem to be a lot more to it that I hadn't really dropped yet and that's when I had my third aha moment and that was about the passion of open-source advocates the people so you know at this time I'm running a big UNIX group but we had a lot of those employees who were incredibly passionate about about Linux and open source they're actively participating so outside of working a lot of things and they were lobbying more and more for the leadership to embrace open source more directly and I have to say their passion was contagious and it eventually spread to me you know they were they were the catalyst for my personal passion and it also led me to rethink what it is we needed to go do and that's a passion that I carry forward to this day the one driven by the people and I'll tell you some interesting things many of those folks that were with us at Compaq at the time have gone on to be icons and leaders in open-source today and many of them actually are involved with with Red Hat so I'll give you a couple of names that some of whom you will know so John and Mad Dog Hall work for me at the time he was the person who wrote the first edition of Linux for dummies he did that on his own time when he was working for us he he coined he was part of the small team that coined the term open source' some other on that team that inspired me Brian Stevens and Tim Burke who wrote the first version to rent out Enterprise Linux actually they did that in Tim Burke's garage and cost Tim's still with Red Hat today two other people you've already seen him on stage today Denise Dumas and Marko bill Peter so it was those people that I was fortunate enough to work with early on who had passion for open-source and much like me they carry it forward to this day so the punchline there is they ultimately convinced us to you know embrace open-source aggressively in our strategy and one of the interesting things that we did as a company we made an equity investment in Red Hat pre-ipo and a little funny sidebar here I had to present this proposal to the compact board on investing in Red Hat which was at that time losing money hand over fist and they said well Tim how you think they're gonna make money selling free software and I said well you know I don't really know but their customers seem to love them and we need to do this and they approve the investment on the spot so you know how high do your faith and now here we are at a three billion dollar run rate of this company pretty extraordinary so from me the third and final ha was the passion of the people in the way it was contagious so so my journey my curiosity led me first to open source and then to Red Hat and it's been you know the devotion of my career for over the last thirty years and you know I think of myself as pretty literate when it comes to open source and software but I'd be the first one to admit I would have never envisioned the extent to which open source style collaboration is now being brought to bear on some of the most interesting challenges in society so the broader realization is that open source and open can really unlock the world's potential when applied in the collaborative innovative way so what about you you know you many of you particular those have been around for a while you probably have an open source story of your own for those that maybe don't or they're new to open source are new to Red Hat your open source story may be a single inspiration away it may happen here at the summit we certainly hope so it's how we build the summit to engage you you may actually find it on this stage when I bring up some of the people who are about to follow me but this is why we tell open-source stories and open source stories live so each of you hopefully has a chance to think about you know your story and how it relates over source so please take advantage of all the things that are here at the summit and and find your inspiration if you if you haven't already so next thing is you know in a spirit of our telling open source stories today we're introducing our new documentary film the science of collective discovery it's really about citizen scientists using open systems to do serious science in their backyards and environmental areas and the like we're going to preview that I'm gonna prove it preview it today and then please come see it tonight later on when we preview the whole video so let's take a look I may not have a technical scientific background but I have one thing that the scientists don't have which is I know my backyard so conventional science happens outside of public view so it's kind of in this black box so most are up in the ivory tower and what's exciting about citizen science is that it brings it out into the open we as an environmental community are engaging with the physical world every day and you need tools to do that we needed to democratize that technology we need to make it lightweight we need to make it low-cost we needed to make it open source so that we could put that technology in the hands of everyday people so they go out and make those measurements where they live and where they breathe when you first hear about an environmental organization you mostly hear about planting trees gardens things like that you don't really think about things that are really going to affect you hey we're the air be more they'd hold it in their hand making sure not to cover the intake or the exhaust I just stand here we look at the world with forensic eyes and then we build what you can't see so the approach that we're really centered on puts humans and real issues at the center of the work and I think that's the really at the core of what open source is social value that underlies all of it it really refers to sort of the rights and responsibilities that anyone on the planet has to participate in making new discoveries so really awesome and a great story and you know please come enjoy the full video so now let's get on with our open stories live speakers you're going to really love the rest of the afternoon we have three keynotes and a demo built in and I can tell you without exaggeration that when you see and hear from the young people we're about to bring forward you know it's truly inspirational and it's gonna restore totally your enthusiasm for the future because you're gonna see some of the future leaders so please enjoy our open source stories live presentation is coming and I'll be back to join you in a little bit thanks very much please welcome code newbie founder Saran yep Eric good afternoon how y'all doing today oh that was pretty weak I think you could do better than that how y'all doing today wonderful much better I'm Saran I am the founder of code newbie we have the most supportive community of programmers and people learning to code this is my very first Red Hat summits I'm super pumped super excited to be here today I'm gonna give you a talk and I'm going to share with you the key to coding progress yes and in order to do that I'm gonna have to tell you a story so two years ago I was sitting in my hotel room and I was preparing for a big talk the next morning and usually the night before I give a big talk I'm super nervous I'm anxious I'm nauseous I'm wondering why I keep doing this to myself all the speakers backstage know exactly what I'm what I'm talking about and the night before my mom knows this so she almost always calls just to check in to see how I'm doing to see how I'm feeling and she called about midnight the night before and she said how are you how are you doing are you ready and I said you know what this time I feel really good I feel confident I think I'm gonna do a great job and the reason was because two months ago I'd already given that talk in fact just a few days prior they had published the video of that talk on YouTube and I got some really really good positive feedback I got feedback from emails and DMS and Twitter and I said man I know people really like this it's gonna be great in fact that video was the most viewed video of that conference and I said to my office said you know what let's see how many people loved my talk and still the good news is that 14 people liked it and a lot more people didn't and I saw this 8 hours before I'm supposed to give that exact same talk and I said mom I gotta call you back do you like how I did that to hang up the phone as if that's how cellphones work yeah and so I looked at this and I said oh my goodness clearly there's a huge disconnect I thought they were really liked they were I thought they were into it and this showed me that something was wrong what do you do what do you do when you're about to give that same talk in 8 hours how do you begin finding out what the problem is so you can fix it I have an idea let's read the comments you got to believe you gotta have some optimism come on I said let's read the comments because I'm sure we'll find some helpful feedback some constructive criticism some insights to help me figure out how to make this talk great so that didn't happen but I did find some really colorful language and some very creative ideas of what I could do with myself now there are some kids in the audience so I will not grace you with these comments but there was this one comment that did a really great job of capturing the sentiment of what everyone else was saying I can only show you the first part because the rest is not very family-friendly but it reads like this how do you talk about coding and not fake societal issues see the thing about that talk is it wasn't just a code talk it was a code and talk is about code and something else that talked touched on code and social justice I talked a lot about how the things that we build the way we build them affect real people and their problems and their struggles and that was absolutely not okay not okay we talk about code and code only not the social justice stuff it also talked about code and diversity yeah I think we all know the diversity is really about lowering the bar it forces us to talk about people and their issues and their problems in their history and we just don't do that okay absolutely inappropriate when it comes to a Tech Talk That Talk touched on code and feelings and feelings are squishy they're messy they're icky and a lot of us feel uncomfortable with feelings feelings have no place in technology no place in code we want to talk about code and code I want you to show me that API and when you show me that new framework that new tool that's gonna solve my problems that's all I care about I want to talk about code and give me some more code with it now I host a podcast called command line heroes it's an original podcast from Red Hat super excited about it if you haven't checked it out and totally should and what I love about this show as we talk about these really important moments and open swords these inflection points moments where we see progress we move forward and what I realized looking back at those episodes is all of those episodes have a code and something let's look at a few of those the first two episodes focused on the history of operating systems as a two-part episode part 1 and part 2 and there's lots of different ways we can talk about operating systems for these two episodes we started by talking about Windows and Mac OS and how these were two very powerful very popular operating systems but a lot of a lot of developers were frustrated with them they were closed you couldn't see inside you can see what it was doing and I the developer want to know what it's doing on my machine so we kind of had a little bit of a war one such developer who was very frustrated said I'm gonna go off and do my own thing my name is Linus this thing is Linux and I'm gonna rally all these other developers all these other people from all over the old to come together and build this new thing with me that is a code and moment in that case it was code and frustration it was a team of developers a world of developers literally old world of developers who said I'm frustrated I'm fed up I want something different and I'm gonna do something about it and what's really beautiful about frustration is it the sign of passion we're frustrated because we care because we care so much we love so deeply then we want to do something better next episode is the agile revolution this one was episode three now the agile revolution is a very very important moment in open-source and technology in general and this was in response to the way that we used to create products we used to give this huge stack of specs all these docs from the higher-ups and we'd take it and we go to our little corner and we lightly code and build and then a year with Pastor here's a pass a few years have passed and we'd finally burst forth with this new product and hope that users liked it and loved it and used it and I know something else will do that today it's okay no judgment now sometimes that worked and a lot of times it didn't but whether or not it actually worked it hurt it was painful these developers not enjoy this process so what happened a dozen developers got together and literally went off into their own and created something called the agile manifesto now this was another code and moment here it's code and anger these developers were so angry that they literally left civilization went off into a mountain to write the agile manifesto and what I love about this example is these developers did not work at the same company we're not on the same team they knew each other from different conferences and such but they really came from different survive and they agreed that they were so angry they were going to literally rewrite the way we created products next as an example DevOps tear down the wall this one is Episode four now this is a bit different because we're not talking about a piece of technology or even the way we code here we're talking about the way we work together the way that we collaborate and here we have our operations folks and our developers and we've created this new kind of weird place thing called DevOps and DevOps is interesting because we've gotten to a point where we have new tools new toys so that our developers can do a lot of the stuff that only the operations folks used to be able to do that thing that took days weeks months to set up I can do it with a slider it's kind of scary I can do it with a few buttons and here we have another code and moment and here that blink is fear for two reasons the operations focus is looking over the developer folks and thinking that was my job I used to be able to do that am I still valuable do I have a place in this future do I need to retrain there's also another fear which is those developers know what they're doing do they understand the security implications they appreciate how hard it is or something to scale and how to do that properly and I'm really interested in excited to see where we go with that where we take that emotion if we look at all of season one of the podcast we see that there's always a code and whether it's a code and frustration a code and anger or a code and fear it always boils down to code and feelings feelings are powerful in almost every single episode we see that that movement forward that progress is tied back to some type of Oshin and for a lot of us this is uncomfortable feelings make us feel weird and a lot of those YouTube commenters definitely do not like this whole feeling stuff don't be like those YouTube commenters there's one thing you take away from this whole talk let it be that don't be like these YouTube commenters feelings are incredibly powerful so the next time that you're working on a project you're having a conversation about a piece of software or a new piece of technology and you start to get it worked up you get angry you get frustrated maybe you get worried you get anxious you get scared I hope you recognize that feeling as a source of energy I hope you take that energy and you help us move forward I would take that to create the next inflection point that next step in the right direction feelings are your superpowers and I hope you use your powers for good thank you so much [Applause] please welcome jewel-box chief technology officer Sara Chipps [Music] Wow there's a lot of you out here how's it going I know there's a lot of you East Coasters here as well and I'm still catching up on that sleep so I hope you guys are having a great experience also my name is Sarah I'm here from New York I have been a software developer for 17 years it's longer than some of the people on stage today I've been alive big thanks to the folks at Red Hat for letting us come and tell you a little bit about jewel box so without further ado I'm gonna do exactly that okay so today we're gonna do a few things first I'm gonna tell you why we built jewel BOTS and why we think it's a really important technology I'm gonna show you some amazing magic and then we're gonna have one of the jewel bus experts come as a special guest and talk to you more about the deep technology behind what we're building so show hands in the audience who here was under 18 years old when they started coding it's hard for me to see you guys yep look around I'd have to say at least 50% of you have your hands up all right keep your hand up if you were under 15 when you started coding I think more hands up just what is it I don't know how that mouth works but awesome okay great yeah a little of I think about half of you half of you have your hands up that's really neat I've done a bunch of informal polls on the internet about this I found that probably about two-thirds of professional coders were under 18 when they started coding I myself was 11 I was a homeschooled kid so a little weird I'm part of the generation and some of you maybe as well is the reason we became coders is because we were lonely not because we made a lot of money so I was 11 this is before the internet was a thing and we had these things called BBS's and you would call up someone else's computer in your town and you would hang out with people and chat with them and play role-playing games with them it didn't have to be your town but if it wasn't your mom would yell at you for a long distance fees and I got really excited about computers and coding because of the community that I found online okay so this is sometimes the most controversial part of this presentation I promised you that they dominate our lives in many ways even if you don't even if you don't even know a 9 to 14 year old girl even if you just see them on the street sometimes they are deciding what you and I do on a regular basis hear me out for a second here so who here knows who this guy is okay you don't have to raise your hands but I think most people know who this guy is right so this guy used to be this guy and then teenage girls were like I think this guy has some talent to him I think that he's got a future and now he's a huge celebrity today what about this guy just got his first Oscar you know just kind of starting out well this guy used to be this guy and I'm proud to tell you that I am one of the many girls that discovered him and decided this guy has a future all right raise your hand if you listen to Taylor Swift just kidding I won't make you do it but awesome that's great so Taylor Swift we listen to Taylor Swift because these girls discovered Taylor Swift it wasn't a 35 year old that was like this Taylor Swift is pretty neat no one cares what we think but even bigger than that these huge unicorns that all of us some of us work for some of us wish we invented these were discovered by young teenage girls no one is checking to see what apps were using they're finding new communities in these thin in these platforms and saying this is how I want to commune with my friends things like Instagram snapchat and musically all start with this demographic and then we get our cues from them if you don't know what musically is I promise you ask your nearest 9 to 14 year old friend if you don't do that you'll hear about it in a few years but this demographic their futures are all at risk everyone here knows how much the field of software development is growing and how important technical literacy is to the future of our youth however just 18% of computer science graduates are girls just 19% of AP computer science test takers and just 15% of Google's tech force identify as female so we decided to do something about that we were inspired by platforms like MySpace and Geocities things like Neopets and minecraft all places where kids find something they love and they're like okay to make this better all I have to do is learn how to code I can totally do that and so we wanted to do that so we talked to 200 girls we went to schools we sat down with them and we were like what makes you tick what are you excited about and what we heard from them over and over again is their friends their friends and their community are pivotal to them and this time in their lives so when we started talking to them about a smart friendship bracelet that's when they started really freaking out so we built Jewel BOTS and Jewel BOTS has an active online community where girls can work together share code that they've built and learn from each other help each other troubleshoot sometimes the way they work is when you are near your friends your bracelets light up the same color and you can use them to send secret messages to each other and you can also code them so you can say things like when all my swimming friends are together in the same room all of our bracelets should go rainbow colors which is really fun you can even build games jewel BOTS started shipping about a year and a half ago about after a lot of work and we are about to ship our 12,000 jewel bot we're in 38 city sorry 38 countries and we're just getting started okay so now it's time for the magic and I have an important question does anyone here want to be my friend pick me all right someone today Gary oh I don't have many friends that's awesome I'm so glad that we'll be friends okay it's awesome so we just need to pair our jewel BA okay okay and in order to do that we're gonna hold the magic button in the middle down for two seconds so one locomotive two locomotive great and then we got a white flashing I'm gonna do yours again I did it wrong locomotive two locomotive it's we're adults we can't do it okay it's a good that are smart alright so now we get to pick our friendship color I'm gonna pick red hat red does that work for you sure okay great so now I just picked a red hat red and my jewel bot is saying alright Tim's jewel bot do you want to be my friend and imageable about it's like I'm thinking about it I think so okay now we're ready okay great so now we're red friends when we're together our bracelets are going to be red and I will send you a secret message when it's time for you to come out and trip and introduce the next guest awesome well thank you so much thank you tailor gun so glad we could be friends and if only people would start following me on Twitter it'd be a great day awesome alright so now you can see the not so technical part of jewel box they use bluetooth to sense when your friends are nearby so they would work in about a 30 meter hundred foot range but to tell you about the actual technology part I'm going to introduce is someone much more qualified than I am so Ellie is one of our jewel box ambassadors she's an amazing YouTube channel that I would please ask you to check out and subscribe she's le G Joel BOTS on YouTube she's an amazing coder and I'm really excited to introduce you today to Ellie Galloway come on out Ellie [Applause] hello my name is le gallais I'm gonna show you how I got coding and then show you some coding in action I first started coding at a6 when my dad helped me code a game soon after I program form a code for Minecraft then my dad had shown me jo bot I keep coding because it helps people for instance for instance you could code auto crack to make it a lot smarter so it can help make people stay run faster but what about something more serious what if you could help answer 911 calls and give alerts before we start I have three main steps to share with you I often use these steps to encoding my jaw bot and continue to use some of these now step one read the instructions and in other words this means for Jabba to memorize the colors and positions a way to memorize these because it's tricky is to remember all the colors and positions you O type will be capital and remember that the positions are either short for north west south west north east and south east step to learn the basic codes when it comes to coding you need to work your way up step 3 discover feel free to discover once you mastered everything now let's get to coding let's use or let's first use combining lights so under void loop I'm going to put LED turn on single s/w and blue and before we make sure that this works we got to put LED LED okay now let's type this again LED dot turn on single now let's do SW green now we have our first sketch so let's explain what this means led LED is a function that to control the LED lights LED turn on single SW blue tells that SW light to turn blue and green flashes so quickly with the blue it creates aqua now let's do another code lets you i'm going to use a more advanced command to make a custom color using RGB let's use a soft pink using 255 105 and 180 now let's type this in the button press function so let's do LED led LED dot set light and now we can do let's do position 3 255 105 and 180 now let's explain what this means the first one stands for the position the three others stand for red green and blue our GPS can only go up to 255 but there are 256 levels but if you count the first one as zero then get 255 so let's first before we move on let's show how this works so this is it before and now let's turn it on to see how our aqua turned out now let's see how our RGB light turned out so we are looking for a soft pink so let's see how it looks think about how much the code you write can help people all around the world these are ideas are just the beginning of opening a new world in technology a fresh start is right around the corner I hope this helped you learn a little bit about coding and even made you want to try it out for yourself thank you [Applause] alright alright alright I need your help for a second guys alright one second really really fascinating we're short on time today is Ellie's 11th birthday and I think we should give her the biggest present that she's gonna get today and it's something none of us have experienced and that is thousands of people saying happy birthday Elliott wants so when I say three can I get a happy birthday Elly one two three happy birthday Elly great job that's the best part of my job okay so those are that's two of us we're just getting started this numbers out Dana would almost shipped 12,000 jewel BOTS and what I'm really excited to tell you about is that 44% of our users don't just play with their jewel bots they code them and they're coding C do you even code C I don't know that you do but we have 8 to 14 year olds coding C for their jewel box we also have hundreds of events where kids come and they learn how to code for the first time here's how you can help we're open source so check out our github get involved our communities online you can see the different features that people's are asking for we're also doing events all over the world a lot of people are hosting them at their companies if you're interested in doing so reach out to us thank you so much for coming and learning about jewel box today enjoy the rest of your summit [Music] ladies and gentlemen please welcome hacker femme au founder Femi who Bois de Kunz [Music] good afternoon red hat summit 2018 i'm femi holiday combs founder of hacker femme Oh I started coding when I was 8 when I was 9 I set up South London raspberry jam through crowdfunding to share my passion for coding with other young people who might not otherwise be exposed to tech since then I've run hundreds of coding and robot workshops across the UK and globally in 2017 I was awarded an inaugural legacy Diana award by their Royal Highnesses Prince William and Prince Harry my service and community we welcome young people who have autism or like me tract syndrome because coding linked me up to a wider community of like-minded people and I'm trying to do the same for those who might also benefit from this I also deliver workshops to corporate companies and public organizations whilst feeding back ideas and resources into my community work we like to cascade our knowledge and experience to other young coders so that they can benefit too we're learning new tech every day we're starting to use github to document and manage our coding projects we've no dread we're using the terminal and beginning to really appreciate Linux as we explore cybersecurity and blockchain it's been quite a journey from South London to the world-famous Tate Modern museum to Bangladesh to this my first trip to the States and soon to China where I hope to translate my microwave workshops into Mandarin on this journey I'm noticed it is increasingly important for young coders to have collaborative and community led initiatives and enterprise and career ready skills so my vision now is to run monthly meetups and in collaboration with business partners help a hundred young disadvantaged people to get jobs in the digital services in fact out of all the lessons I've learned from teaching young coders they all have one thing in common the power of open source and the importance of developing community and today I want to talk about three of those lessons the value of reaching out and collaborating the importance of partnering event price and the ability to self organize and persist which translated into English means having a can-do attitude getting stuff done when you reach out when you show curiosity you realize you're not alone in this diverse community no matter who you are and where you're from from coding with minecraft to meeting other young people with jams I found there are people like me doing things I like doing I get to connect with them that's where open-source comes to the fourth second the open source community is so vast then it crosses continents it's so immersed perspectives that it can take you to amazing places out of space even that's my code running on the International Space Station's Columbus module let's take a lesson and playing was an audio representation for the frequencies recorded in space my team developed Python code to measure and store frequency readings from the space station and that was down linked back to earth to my email box Thomas who's 10 developed an audio file using audacity and importing it back into Python how cool is that Trulli collaboration can take you places you never thought possible because that's how the community works when you throw a dilemma a problem a tip the open source community comes back with answers when you give the community gives back tenfold that's how open source expands but in that vast starscape how do you know what to focus on there are so many problems to solve where do I start your world enterprice enterprise software is very good at solving problems what's the big problem how about helping the next generation be ready for the future I want to do more for the young coding community so I'm developing entrepreneurial business links to get that done this is a way to promote pathways to deal with future business problems whether in FinTech healthcare or supply chains a meeting the skill shortage it is a case for emerging in it's a case for investing in emerging communities and young change enablers throwing a wider net equates to being fully inclusive with a good representation of diversity you know under the shadow of the iconic show back in London there are pockets of deprivation where young people can't even get a job in a supermarket many of them are interested in tech in some way so my goal for the next three years is to encourage young people to become an active part of the coding community with open source we have the keys to unlock the potential for future innovation and technological development with young coders we have the people who have to face these problems working on them now troubleshooting being creative connecting with each other finding a community discovering their strengths along the way for me after running workshops in the community for a number of years when I returned from introducing coding to young street kids in Bangladesh I realized I had skills and experience so I set up my business hacker Famicom my first monetized fehmi's coding boot camp at Rice London Barclays Bank it was a sellout and a few weeks later shows my second I haven't looked back since but it works the opposite way - all the money raised enable me to buy robots for my community events and I was able to cascade my end price knowledge across to other young coders - when you focus on business problems you get active enthusiastic support from enterprise and then you can take on anything the support is great and we have tons of ideas but what does it really take to execute on those ideas to get things done can-do attitudes what open source needs you've seen it all this week we're all explorers ideator z' thinkers and doers open source needs people who can make the ideas happen get out there and see them through like I did setting up Safford and raspberry jam as an inclusive space to collaborate and learn together and that that led to organizing the young coders conference this was about organizing our own two-day event for our partners in industry to show they value young people and wanted to invest in our growth it doesn't stop there oh nice now I'm setting up monthly coding meetups and looking at ways to help other young people to access job opportunities in end price and digital services the underlying ethos remains the same in all I do promoting young people with the desire to explore collaborative problem-solving when coding digital making and building enterprise you fled having the confidence to define our journey and pathways always being inclusive always encouraging innovation and creativity being doers does more than get projects done makes us a pioneering force in the community dreaming and doing is how we will make exponential leaps my generation is standing on the shoulders of giants you the open-source pioneers and the technology you will built so I'd love to hear about your experiences who brought you into the open-source community who taught you as we go to upscale our efforts we encounter difficulties have you and how did you overcome them please do come to talk to me I'll be in the open-source stories booth both today and tomorrow giving workshops or visit the Red Hat page of my website hack Famicom I really value your insights in conclusion I'd like I'd like to ask you to challenge yourself you can do this by supporting young coders find the crowdfunding campaign kick-start their ideas into reality I'm proof that it works it's so awesome to be an active part of the next exponential leap together thank you [Applause] so unbelievable huh you know he reminds me of be at that age not even close and I can tell you I've spent a lot of time with Femi and his mom grace I mean what you see is what you get I mean he's incredibly passionate committed and all that stuff he's doing that long list of things he's doing he's going to do so hopefully today you get a sense of what's coming in the next generation the amazing things that people are doing with collaboration I'd also like to thank in addition to femi I'd like to thank Sauron Sarah and Ellie for equally compelling talks around the open source stories and again as I mentioned before any one of you can have an open source story that can be up here inspiring others and that's really our goal in telling these stories and giving voice to the things that you've seen today absolutely extraordinary things are happening out there and I encourage you to take every advantage you can hear this week and as is our theme for the summit please keep exploring thank you very much [Applause] [Music]

>> Announcer: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico, it's theCUBE, covering Blockchain Unbound. Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. (Caribbean music) >> Welcome back, everyone. We're here for exclusive CUBE coverage in Puerto Rico for Blockchain Unbound, a great conference where entrepreneurs and leaders are all here, coming together at a global level. You've got investors, you've got entrepreneurs, you've got the ecosystem developing. We've got it covered for you, I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. Next guest, Joe Mohen, CEO of Chimes, industry executive, a lot of experience doing an ICO, doing some great work, Joe welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. >> So, tell us first what Chimes is doing. You've got an interesting approach with music. What are you guys doing? Is there an ICO in the future? Have you done an ICO? Give the quick update. >> Okay, sure. Chimes is a digital media company, and we are consolidating music-related search results on Google in a similar way to what Amazon did with IMDB, consolidating film and television results many years ago. Amazon built an audience of about quarter of a billion to half a billion monthly users, and we expect we can create an audience on that order of magnitude over time. Just like IMDB is the third largest entertainment website in the world, it is our objective to create the fourth largest one. >> What's the value proposition there? Acquire audience, use that audience to tokenize? How does the token economics fit into all this? >> Well, first, like any media company, the first thing you have to get is an audience, right? I remember I interviewed for a job at CBS when I was out of college, and in the interview they said, "Do you know what we make here?" And I said, "You make TV shows." They go, "No, we make audiences." So we have to make an audience with a good product. The audience will be driven primarily by search, okay? But we also do have a double ICO in our future. First, we monetize the big audience. You can monetize with advertising, but that's not enough to make big money anymore, right, we all know that. So we have a layer of crypto products over and above that that we're going to be launching, including, for example, inter-country commerce, hiring producers in another country, hiring songwriters, et cetera, but automating that so we can do it on scale with smart contract. So we are creating a micro-currency that we can use on the website. We're doing an ICO for that but that's not for the purpose of raising capital. >> That's more part of the business model. >> That's part of the business model. >> That's not the financial aspect of it. >> Correct, and that's done so we can scale international commerce with automation. We're doing an actual ICO for the equity, for securities tokens as well. I've done a full IPO myself. My first company, I had Microsoft and Novell as my shareholders and it was a full S1, full registration. >> Interviewer: You went through the whole process. >> Yeah, but I also did a Form 10 once, ten years ago, for another reason. So what we're doing is possibly the first, certainly one of the first, but I think the first registration with the SEC of a company actually doing an ICO. And we're doing that using, I don't want to call it a loophole in securities laws, but there is a provision in the 1934 Securities Act called Section 12G. And what this does is it allows us basically to go public by telling the SEC we're doing it without having to delay it to wait for their permission. A Form 10 looks just like an S1, but when you file it, it's automatically effective 60 days after you file it, period. And so what we're doing is-- >> Period, full stop, no issues, no questions. >> Joe: No issue, right. >> So do you have to fill out all the same paperwork, the S1, >> Correct. >> the normal format, do the business plan, the normal paperwork? >> Joe: No, right, in 1930-- >> But there's no comments coming back? You just chip it to them? >> Comments come back and you have to clear them, just like with a prospectus, just like with an S1, however that doesn't delay it becoming effective. It's effective 60 days later. >> So they can be commenting during the 60 day time clock going on, but after 60 days, you're in. >> It's effective. So we'll continue to clear comments, but the thing is, with tokens, who knows how long that'll take? Is the SEC going to shepherd something through with crypto, or are they going to make it take five years? I don't know! Who knows? So, the thing is, we are complying with all of the laws for registration, but 60 days after we file it, it's effective. What we're doing is, in the pre-sale for the tokens, we're not issuing the tokens themselves to the buyers of the pre-sale for six months. The reason for that is they will have met the statutory holding period. So once the Form 10 is effective, those buyers can sell freely on token exchanges-- >> And what's the statutory holding period, six months? >> Generally six months. There's a few exceptions for affiliates, like an insider like me. >> I'm confused, a holding period kicks in before or after six months? >> After six months, the statutory holding period is satisfied. >> So you're going to wait to delay them anyway six months. >> Joe: Yes. >> So that covers the holding period. >> Correct, and then we file the Form 10, and 60 days later, they can trade and anybody can buy them. >> So do you file a Form 10 before the six month holding period? >> It'll be at about the same time. The reason being is because we have to get all the ducks in a row to be a public company. >> Cutting edge advice here, this is fantastic. So you're basically going to be the first ICO that actually files with the SEC. >> Correct. >> I mean, who does that, nobody. You! >> Watch us! >> John: That's awesome. >> Basically, we're using a provision, it's like we went back in time to 1934, got them to put something in the 1934 Securities Act for the purposes of ICO's, and then we came back to 2018 with the time machine-- >> Are you from the future? Back to the future! You went back and jerry rigged it. Hey, we should put this Form 10 in there! >> Joe: There you go! That's right. >> It could come in handy some day during the crypto bubble. >> Joe: That's right. >> So let's back to the cryptocurrency thing. I think you're onto something that I think is a tell sign that I haven't seen yet. I've been seeing some formation of it. You are using two types of tokens. Your business model is do security token for funding, trade that puppy through the Form 10. Utility token, a separate ICO for the product, and that's going to have one token, two tokens? >> There's one utility token, so to speak, one currency token, and that has its own regulations that you have to manage to also. But that's designed to appreciate, but not to go up 17 times. >> Okay, I want to dig into that for a second, because you mentioned scale. You're going to scale your business model with the utility token. That's the purpose of the utility token. So let's get into how you're going to do these smart contracts. Let's just say that a producer in Europe somewhere, in Italy, says, "Hey, I'm going to do something "with Joe in the UK." And they form a collaboration. >> Joe: That's right. >> Do they use that utility token or a new token gets created? >> No, that utility token. It's called a Chime, the Chime token. And what happens with that token is you can build in the contract administration through the token. Right now, you can do international deals. People do them every day. The difficulty is if you've got an audience of a half a billion people a month, for example, to do that on scale and automate it... Right now, if you do a deal with somebody in Japan, you, the American, has to have an American lawyer and a Japanese lawyer. And if there's a dispute, good luck suing. I, one time, a customer in Hong Kong, owed me a million and a half bucks and he's like, "Sue me." I'm in New York, he's in Hong Kong, and good luck. >> Did you do the New York thing? I'm flying over there and going to break your legs! >> We bitched and complained, threatened them, and ultimately we settled on 30 cents on the dollar, so we did, that's exactly what happened. With a situation like this, with smart contracts, neither side has to hire two sets of lawyers in the other country-- >> So Chime takes care of that. You want Chime to take care of that administrative inefficiency? >> Correct. The company might still get involved in administering exceptions but not everyone single one. What the smart contract does is it allows you to scale international business. The key is international business, and that's a new efficiency into the market, and that's a great-- >> And in the business model, what does that scale mean to you for operationalizing it? More people, do you have to hire them? >> More cash. No, less people and more cash because there's more automation, right? It means more software development-- >> Where's the cash coming from? >> We have a lot of revenue products. Like the obvious, like every other website, we have subscription revenue and advertising revenue. Subscription revenue comes from like... You know how IMDB is the LinkedIn of the TV and film business? So we'll have that too. >> It's not really large, though. It can be. >> Amazon could make it larger if they wanted to. They have their reasons for doing it the way they do it. But, in our case, I'll give you an example of some revenue products. Let's say you want to crowdfund a project. So let's say you want a bunch of Taylor Swift fans to crowdfund a project for her to do a duet with Kanye West. Sounds preposterous, but it's goofy enough. You'd be amazed, Stormy Daniels is crowdfunding a project for her legal bills with Donald Trump, and I betcha it's going to get funded, right? >> John: I would agree. >> So there's a lot of nutty stuff that gets crowdfunded. >> The wisdom of the crowd is actually efficient. >> Yes, that's right, and the whims of the crowd. But also, I'll give you another example. Let's say people want, if they go to a webpage about an artist, the band All American Rejects, for example, and Wheeler, one of the band members... Ten years ago, you could have given your niece a gift of a CD of All American Rejects. Well, good luck now. They wouldn't even know what a CD is in many cases, right? But what you could do is say, "Hey, you know what? "I'll give you a gift of a Google Hangouts chat with him, "And I'll pay $200 for that, or $500 for it." >> It's probably a bot, but anyway, how do you make this happen? This is really important. You're creating value by allowing people to collaborate in a way that's different, so that scales. Is that going to be done in the Chime contract or it's all going to be part of one currency? >> One currency, that's right. We're very careful. We brought in as an advisor, Rod Garrett, who gave one of the keynotes here yesterday. Rod Garrett is the money supply economist from UCSB, but he was also former VP of the New York Fed, he was the leader at the New York Fed for cryptocurrency. Rod is one of the smartest people I've ever met. >> You know him? >> Very well now, and you know what, Rod can explain the most complex things in simple words, which means he actually understands them. So we've actually used Fisher's equation to help model the utility token value over time. And, again, it's designed to appreciate, but we don't want nutty appreciation because then it'll be useless as a currency, right? We have fixed supply, the Bitcoin principle, the fixed supply and stable market so we can keep it reasonably stable. >> You're using the utility token to create value on your network so the creators can capture that value. >> Correct. >> That's what you're doing with the utility. The security is the money making side. How are you backing the security token, with equity or cash flow? >> Equity, and very important, really important, if you did a percentage of revenue or royalties, it wouldn't work, and I'll tell you why. It wouldn't scale, because we're looking five years out, 10 years out, for this to be a good investment. We want investors to buy it. And if you, let's say you need to do a secondary, because an acquisition becomes available, because you're low on money or whatever. Then how do you do a secondary if you've already given away 20% of your revenue to token holders. What if you have to do a secondary or tertiary capital round? How many rounds were necessary for Spotify, I happen to know Spotify, it was six, right? Facebook, Google, how many founds of financing did they do? A lot, and by the way, they still might do more. >> So basically the revenue share is hair on the deal. It really puts a lot of hair on the deal. >> Destroys it, in my opinion, destroys it. It's a dressing thing, but look, if you're really going to grow to a major company and have, be it five or 10 year success, it kills it. This is my opinion. >> What percentage of equity, say they're going to do a 50 million dollar raise, hard cap, soft cap, say 25, that's what seems to be the norm right now, what would be a percentage of equity converting to tokens that you'd see? >> In Chimes' case, we have a Common A class of stock. We're creating a preferred class of stock called a Series T which, if fully sold, would be about 43% of the equity of the company. They had to do it preferred stock, because there's too many, in Delaware Corporate Law, which all the tech companies are all Delaware, common stock would be very difficult to make a token. You can do whatever you want with preferred. So the preferred is more flexible, so it's actual equity, actual shares, it's not a derivative, it's not a rev share, it's not a royalty, it's actual equity. >> It's paper that converts nicely and it scales on the business side. >> So you say, "What's the evaluation?" >> We're selling 100 million dollars worth of the equity, or we're offering 100 million dollars of the equity, the pre-sale evaluation is a little over 200 million. In Chimes' cases, that's because we're not a startup, we're an early stage company. >> How old is the company? >> Pardon me? >> How old is the company? >> Three and a half years. >> So you weren't born yesterday. >> We acquired music databases that were built at a cost of tens of millions of dollars in Europe, funded by the richest guy in Europe, who built it out and then got tired of it, tired of funding it, and then we were able to pick it up basically for equity deals. We picked it up and we're buying a second music database also that's a very big one. So it's not like we're a startup with an idea and a business plan. >> No, you've got assets, and you've got momentum, good management, you obviously know what you're doing. It's awesome. You've got a great scalability mindset. You've got a nicely packaged, clear target. >> That's right, so we're probably a little bit different than a lot of crypto startups, in that, a lot of brilliant entrepreneurs that you see here, but we've been around the block with having to do IPO's, having to do exits, having to do... And you know, I'm a contrarian, right? I was getting a lot of advice yesterday from a lot of really smart people saying, "Hey, raise the money overseas through a foundation." >> "Everyone's doing it!" >> Look, I'm going to take a contrarian approach. >> I'm just going to comply with the law, by doing the registration. And they say, "What if your utility token has to comply "with money transfer laws?" Then we'll comply with them! It's like look, the contrarian approach is, whatever the law is, follow it! It gives us the flex-- >> The thing is you're actually doing what they want you to do, notifying them of what you're doing, and you have a utility! >> By separating out the token into two, one that has the attributes of currency, one that has the attributes of an equity, neither one is screwing up the other. >> I agree, that's really smart, and very novel. A lot of smart people are going down that road because it's actually known things people can understand. Security token is paperwork that you can do. >> Yes, but I'll tell you the other thing that feels very important, a pretty important point to make. By doing registration, the resale can go to anybody. My personal opinion, is you know these second market type of approaches that you can only resale them to accredited investors or to foreign investors or whatever, I think that's mistake. I think what happens is people who take that approach are going to find that the resale value of the token, or the token that has securities is going to be about 10% of what it would have been otherwise. >> If they only do accredited? >> Well yeah, because here's the thing. First, it's not only that they got to be accredited-- >> How do you get around the security token? >> Because it's registered. The waitress working the bar here can buy a publicly traded equity if it's registered, right? She can buy a publicly traded token-- >> That's the Form 10 that you were talking about. >> Right, Form 10 registers the company. The initial batch of trading will be done under 144 because the token holds will evolve over six months, so they can sell them at their leisure, right? There are exceptions, by the way, like an affiliate might have to do some form filing. I would have to file a Form 3, you know, the usual stuff. But, a regular token investor, he can do whatever he wants. And I can call them investors. I can do business in the United States. I don't have to pretend I'm domiciled in a country you've never heard of, right? So it's like look, I'm an American, my staff is mostly American, we do business in America, let's follow American law instead of-- >> Joe, this is a great conversation. We're getting down and dirty under the hood, capital structure, business models, Chimes' really interesting approach. Joe, thanks for sharing that great data here on theCUBE. Section 12G of the 1934 Securities Act. Form 10 is the secret weapon that was built by aliens before us to allow us to get this special clause in there for crypto. I'd love to continue this conversation another time. I think there's four or five things we just identified, great great topics, thanks for sharing. It's theCUBE's coverage here in Puerto Rico, I'm John Furrier, we'll be back with more after this short break. (digital jingle)