>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> After a two-year epic run in tech, 2022 has been an epically bad year. Through yesterday, The NASDAQ composite is down 30%. The S$P 500 is off 21%. And the Dow Jones Industrial average 16% down. And the poor holders at Bitcoin have had to endure a nearly 60% decline year to date. But judging by the attendance and enthusiasm, in major in-person tech events this spring. You'd never know that tech was in the tank. Moreover, walking around the streets of Las Vegas, where most tech conferences are held these days. One can't help but notice that the good folks of Main Street, don't seem the least bit concerned that the economy is headed for a recession. Hello, and welcome to this weeks Wiki Bond Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis we'll share our main takeaways from the first half of 2022. And talk about the outlook for tech going forward, and why despite some pretty concerning headwinds we remain sanguine about tech generally, but especially enterprise tech. Look, here's the bumper sticker on why many folks are really bearish at the moment. Of course, inflation is high, other than last year, the previous inflation high this century was in July of 2008, it was 5.6%. Inflation has proven to be very, very hard to tame. You got gas at $7 dollars a gallon. Energy prices they're not going to suddenly drop. Interest rates are climbing, which will eventually damage housing. Going to have that ripple effect, no doubt. We're seeing layoffs at companies like Tesla and the crypto names are also trimming staff. Workers, however are still in short supply. So wages are going up. Companies in retail are really struggling with the right inventory, and they can't even accurately guide on their earnings. We've seen a version of this movie before. Now, as it pertains to tech, Crawford Del Prete, who's the CEO of IDC explained this on theCUBE this very week. And I thought he did a really good job. He said the following, >> Matt, you have a great statistic that 80% of companies used COVID as their point to pivot into digital transformation. And to invest in a different way. And so what we saw now is that tech is now where I think companies need to focus. They need to invest in tech. They need to make people more productive with tech and it played out in the numbers. Now so this year what's fascinating is we're looking at two vastly different markets. We got gasoline at $7 a gallon. We've got that affecting food prices. Interesting fun fact recently it now costs over $1,000 to fill an 18 wheeler. All right, based on, I mean, this just kind of can't continue. So you think about it. >> Don't put the boat in the water. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good luck if ya, yeah exactly. So a family has kind of this bag of money, and that bag of money goes up by maybe three, 4% every year, depending upon earnings. So that is sort of sloshing around. So if food and fuel and rent is taking up more, gadgets and consumer tech are not, you're going to use that iPhone a little longer. You're going to use that Android phone a little longer. You're going to use that TV a little longer. So consumer tech is getting crushed, really it's very, very, and you saw it immediately in ad spending. You've seen it in Meta, you've seen it in Facebook. Consumer tech is doing very, very, it is tough. Enterprise tech, we haven't been in the office for two and a half years. We haven't upgraded whether that be campus wifi, whether that be servers, whether that be commercial PCs as much as we would have. So enterprise tech, we're seeing double digit order rates. We're seeing strong, strong demand. We have combined that with a component shortage, and you're seeing some enterprise companies with a quarter of backlog, I mean that's really unheard of. >> And higher prices, which also profit. >> And therefore that drives up the prices. >> And this is a theme that we've heard this year at major tech events, they've really come roaring back. Last year, theCUBE had a huge presence at AWS Reinvent. The first Reinvent since 2019, it was really well attended. Now this was before the effects of the omicron variant, before they were really well understood. And in the first quarter of 2022, things were pretty quiet as far as tech events go But theCUBE'a been really busy this spring and early into the summer. We did 12 physical events as we're showing here in the slide. Coupa, did Women in Data Science at Stanford, Coupa Inspire was in Las Vegas. Now these are both smaller events, but they were well attended and beat expectations. San Francisco Summit, the AWS San Francisco Summit was a bit off, frankly 'cause of the COVID concerns. They were on the rise, then we hit Dell Tech World which was packed, it had probably around 7,000 attendees. Now Dockercon was virtual, but we decided to include it here because it was a huge global event with watch parties and many, many tens of thousands of people attending. Now the Red Hat Summit was really interesting. The choice that Red Hat made this year. It was purposefully scaled down and turned into a smaller VIP event in Boston at the Western, a couple thousand people only. It was very intimate with a much larger virtual presence. VeeamON was very well attended, not as large as previous VeeamON events, but again beat expectations. KubeCon and Cloud Native Con was really successful in Spain, Valencia, Spain. PagerDuty Summit was again a smaller intimate event in San Francisco. And then MongoDB World was at the new Javits Center and really well attended over the three day period. There were lots of developers there, lots of business people, lots of ecosystem partners. And then the Snowflake summit in Las Vegas, it was the most vibrant from the standpoint of the ecosystem with nearly 10,000 attendees. And I'll come back to that in a moment. Amazon re:Mars is the Amazon AI robotic event, it's smaller but very, very cool, a lot of innovation. And just last week we were at HPE Discover. They had around 8,000 people attending which was really good. Now I've been to over a dozen HPE or HPE Discover events, within Europe and the United States over the past decade. And this was by far the most vibrant, lot of action. HPE had a little spring in its step because the company's much more focused now but people was really well attended and people were excited to be there, not only to be back at physical events, but also to hear about some of the new innovations that are coming and HPE has a long way to go in terms of building out that ecosystem, but it's starting to form. So we saw that last week. So tech events are back, but they are smaller. And of course now a virtual overlay, they're hybrid. And just to give you some context, theCUBE did, as I said 12 physical events in the first half of 2022. Just to compare that in 2019, through June of that year we had done 35 physical events. Yeah, 35. And what's perhaps more interesting is we had our largest first half ever in our 12 year history because we're doing so much hybrid and virtual to compliment the physical. So that's the new format is CUBE plus digital or sometimes just digital but that's really what's happening in our business. So I think it's a reflection of what's happening in the broader tech community. So everyone's still trying to figure that out but it's clear that events are back and there's no replacing face to face. Or as I like to say, belly to belly, because deals are done at physical events. All these events we've been to, the sales people are so excited. They're saying we're closing business. Pipelines coming out of these events are much stronger, than they are out of the virtual events but the post virtual event continues to deliver that long tail effect. So that's not going to go away. The bottom line is hybrid is the new model. Okay let's look at some of the big themes that we've taken away from the first half of 2022. Now of course, this is all happening under the umbrella of digital transformation. I'm not going to talk about that too much, you've had plenty of DX Kool-Aid injected into your veins over the last 27 months. But one of the first observations I'll share is that the so-called big data ecosystem that was forming during the hoop and around, the hadoop infrastructure days and years. then remember it dispersed, right when the cloud came in and kind of you know, not wiped out but definitely dampened the hadoop enthusiasm for on-prem, the ecosystem dispersed, but now it's reforming. There are large pockets that are obviously seen in the various clouds. And we definitely see a ecosystem forming around MongoDB and the open source community gathering in the data bricks ecosystem. But the most notable momentum is within the Snowflake ecosystem. Snowflake is moving fast to win the day in the data ecosystem. They're providing a single platform that's bringing different data types together. Live data from systems of record, systems of engagement together with so-called systems of insight. These are converging and while others notably, Oracle are architecting for this new reality, Snowflake is leading with the ecosystem momentum and a new stack is emerging that comprises cloud infrastructure at the bottom layer. Data PaaS layer for app dev and is enabling an ecosystem of partners to build data products and data services that can be monetized. That's the key, that's the top of the stack. So let's dig into that further in a moment but you're seeing machine intelligence and data being driven into applications and the data and application stacks they're coming together to support the acceleration of physical into digital. It's happening right before our eyes in every industry. We're also seeing the evolution of cloud. It started with the SaaS-ification of the enterprise where organizations realized that they didn't have to run their own software on-prem and it made sense to move to SaaS for CRM or HR, certainly email and collaboration and certain parts of ERP and early IS was really about getting out of the data center infrastructure management business called that cloud 1.0, and then 2.0 was really about changing the operating model. And now we're seeing that operating model spill into on-prem workloads finally. We're talking about here about initiatives like HPE's Green Lake, which we heard a lot about last week at Discover and Dell's Apex, which we heard about in May, in Las Vegas. John Furrier had a really interesting observation that basically this is HPE's and Dell's version of outposts. And I found that interesting because outpost was kind of a wake up call in 2018 and a shot across the bow at the legacy enterprise infrastructure players. And they initially responded with these flexible financial schemes, but finally we're seeing real platforms emerge. Again, we saw this at Discover and at Dell Tech World, early implementations of the cloud operating model on-prem. I mean, honestly, you're seeing things like consoles and billing, similar to AWS circa 2014, but players like Dell and HPE they have a distinct advantage with respect to their customer bases, their service organizations, their very large portfolios, especially in the case of Dell and the fact that they have more mature stacks and knowhow to run mission critical enterprise applications on-prem. So John's comment was quite interesting that these firms are basically building their own version of outposts. Outposts obviously came into their wheelhouse and now they've finally responded. And this is setting up cloud 3.0 or Supercloud, as we like to call it, an abstraction layer, that sits above the clouds that serves as a unifying experience across a continuum of on-prem across clouds, whether it's AWS, Azure, or Google. And out to both the near and far edge, near edge being a Lowes or a Home Depot, but far edge could be space. And that edge again is fragmented. You've got the examples like the retail stores at the near edge. Outer space maybe is the far edge and IOT devices is perhaps the tiny edge. No one really knows how the tiny edge is going to play out but it's pretty clear that it's not going to comprise traditional X86 systems with a cool name tossed out to the edge. Rather, it's likely going to require a new low cost, low power, high performance architecture, most likely RM based that will enable things like realtime AI inferencing at that edge. Now we've talked about this a lot on Breaking Analysis, so I'm not going to double click on it. But suffice to say that it's very possible that new innovations are going to emerge from the tiny edge that could really disrupt the enterprise in terms of price performance. Okay, two other quick observations. One is that data protection is becoming a much closer cohort to the security stack where data immutability and air gaps and fast recovery are increasingly becoming a fundamental component of the security strategy to combat ransomware and recover from other potential hacks or disasters. And I got to say from our observation, Veeam is leading the pack here. It's now claiming the number one revenue spot in a statistical dead heat with the Dell's data protection business. That's according to Veeam, according to IDC. And so that space continues to be of interest. And finally, Broadcom's acquisition of Dell. It's going to have ripple effects throughout the enterprise technology business. And there of course, there are a lot of questions that remain, but the one other thing that John Furrier and I were discussing last night John looked at me and said, "Dave imagine if VMware runs better on Broadcom components and OEMs that use Broadcom run VMware better, maybe Broadcom doesn't even have to raise prices on on VMware licenses. Maybe they'll just raise prices on the OEMs and let them raise prices to the end customer." Interesting thought, I think because Broadcom is so P&L focused that it's probably not going to be the prevailing model but we'll see what happens to some of the strategic projects rather like Monterey and Capitola and Thunder. We've talked a lot about project Monterey, the others we'll see if they can make the cut. That's one of the big concerns because it's how OEMs like the ones that are building their versions of outposts are going to compete with the cloud vendors, namely AWS in the future. I want to come back to the comment on the data stack for a moment that we were talking about earlier, we talked about how the big data ecosystem that was once coalescing around hadoop dispersed. Well, the data value chain is reforming and we think it looks something like this picture, where cloud infrastructure lives at the bottom. We've said many times the cloud is expanding and evolving. And if companies like Dell and HPE can truly build a super cloud infrastructure experience then they will be in a position to capture more of the data value. If not, then it's going to go to the cloud players. And there's a live data layer that is increasingly being converged into platforms that not only simplify the movement in ELTing of data but also allow organizations to compress the time to value. Now there's a layer above that, we sometimes call it the super PaaS layer if you will, that must comprise open source tooling, partners are going to write applications and leverage platform APIs and build data products and services that can be monetized at the top of the stack. So when you observe the battle for the data future it's unlikely that any one company is going to be able to do this all on their own, which is why I often joke that the 2020s version of a sweaty Steve Bomber running around the stage, screaming, developers, developers developers, and getting the whole audience into it is now about ecosystem ecosystem ecosystem. Because when you need to fill gaps and accelerate features and provide optionality a list of capabilities on the left hand side of this chart, that's going to come from a variety of different companies and places, we're talking about catalogs and AI tools and data science capabilities, data quality, governance tools and it should be of no surprise to followers of Breaking Analysis that on the right hand side of this chart we're including the four principles of data mesh, which of course were popularized by Zhamak Dehghani. So decentralized data ownership, data as products, self-serve platform and automated or computational governance. Now whether this vision becomes a reality via a proprietary platform like Snowflake or somehow is replicated by an open source remains to be seen but history generally shows that a defacto standard for more complex problems like this is often going to emerge prior to an open source alternative. And that would be where I would place my bets. Although even that proprietary platform has to include open source optionality. But it's not a winner take all market. It's plenty of room for multiple players and ecosystem innovators, but winner will definitely take more in my opinion. Okay, let's close with some ETR data that looks at some of those major platform plays who talk a lot about digital transformation and world changing impactful missions. And they have the resources really to compete. This is an XY graphic. It's a view that we often show, it's got net score on the vertical access. That's a measure of spending momentum, and overlap or presence in the ETR survey. That red, that's the horizontal access. The red dotted line at 40% indicates that the platform is among the highest in terms of spending velocity. Which is why I always point out how impressive that makes AWS and Azure because not only are they large on the horizontal axis, the spending momentum on those two platforms rivals even that of Snowflake which continues to lead all on the vertical access. Now, while Google has momentum, given its goals and resources, it's well behind the two leaders. We've added Service Now and Salesforce, two platform names that have become the next great software companies. Joining likes of Oracle, which we show here and SAP not shown along with IBM, you can see them on this chart. We've also plotted MongoDB, which we think has real momentum as a company generally but also with Atlas, it's managed cloud database as a service specifically and Red Hat with trying to become the standard for app dev in Kubernetes environments, which is the hottest trend right now in application development and application modernization. Everybody's doing something with Kubernetes and of course, Red Hat with OpenShift wants to make that a better experience than do it yourself. The DYI brings a lot more complexity. And finally, we've got HPE and Dell both of which we've talked about pretty extensively here and VMware and Cisco. Now Cisco is executing on its portfolio strategy. It's got a lot of diverse components to its company. And it's coming at the cloud of course from a networking and security perspective. And that's their position of strength. And VMware is a staple of the enterprise. Yes, there's some uncertainty with regards to the Broadcom acquisition, but one thing is clear vSphere isn't going anywhere. It's entrenched and will continue to run lots of IT for years to come because it's the best platform on the planet. Now, of course, these are just some of the players in the mix. We expect that numerous non-traditional technology companies this is important to emerge as new cloud players. We've put a lot of emphasis on the data ecosystem because to us that's really going to be the main spring of digital, i.e., a digital company is a data company and that means an ecosystem of data partners that can advance outcomes like better healthcare, faster drug discovery, less fraud, cleaner energy, autonomous vehicles that are safer, smarter, more efficient grids and factories, better government and virtually endless litany of societal improvements that can be addressed. And these companies will be building innovations on top of cloud platforms creating their own super clouds, if you will. And they'll come from non-traditional places, industries, finance that take their data, their software, their tooling bring them to their customers and run them on various clouds. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to Alex Myerson, who is on production and does the podcast for Breaking Analysis, Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight, they help get the word out. And Rob Hoofe is our editor and chief over at Silicon Angle who helps edit our posts. Remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can email me directly at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me at dvellante, or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE's Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching be well. And we'll see you next time on Breaking Analysis. (upbeat music)

>> From Union Square in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering PagerDuty Summit '18. Now, here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit at the Westin St. Francis in Union Square, San Francisco. About a thousand people getting together talking about the evolution of PagerDuty. We're really excited to have Jennifer Tejada here, the CEO just coming off a terrific keynote. And I got to say congratulations on your recent round of funding that made all the news a week ago. It's great to see you. >> Thank you very much. It's great to see you again as always, Jeff. We love having theCUBE with us at Summit. >> Thank you, and I have to say we do hundreds of events over six years I've been doing this. I've never seen a summit picture in the keynote until the Summit. So, you got it worked in twice. I love the message really about taking the team to the top of the mountain, that moment of truth, and then you got to just go for it. You got to be prepared, you got to have the team, and at some point in time, you just got to go. >> Point 'em down. >> Yeah, so let's jump into it. So, big topic, here before it's been kind of DevOps, but you guys are moving beyond that. You're kind of taking this classic play, start as an application, move into a platform space. And you guys now with all these integration announcements, the announcements of BI, the growth obviously, the support from the funding that you just got shows that you guys are well on your way to take what was a pretty special purpose application and take it into a platform play that crosses a whole bunch of other applications. >> Yeah, I'd take it even one step further, we almost started out more like a consumer app. It was really an application built for engineers to make better use of their time on call. And frankly, not being woken up when they didn't need to be, right? >> Right. >> And so, everything about our first product was designed around what does a developer need, what does an Ops person need, what does that look like, et cetera? As opposed to being designed for the CIO, or the CTO, or the company. >> Right, right. >> Right. And I think that that user centricity, that user ethos has served us really well, because we start there. That's our starting point. Who's the community that is using our products and services? How is their role changing? How is their world changing? And what do they need from us? And that was really the foundation of the trust that we built to start to become truly an ecosystem. Because all those users started pushing their data to us. Their monitoring data from their APM environments, or the data from their ticketing platforms, or the data from their cloud services. And with that information comes the power to be able to really create context. >> Right, right. >> And now, with the aggregation of nearly 10 years of data coming from our responders, and how they behave when they're under pressure of the workflows, which ones work better, which ones don't work so well. And the events, the signals that all of technology and the internet of things throws off in realtime all the time. You bring that data together and apply machine learning and artificial intelligence to it, and we really are putting ourselves in a position not only to be the platform that serves a realtime business, and orchestrates teams as sort of the platform for action, but importantly, becomes the trusted engagement for automation or engagement of autonomy. >> Right. >> For a fast-moving business in the future. >> Right, 'cause you talked about realtime and I just want to throw a couple of numbers out that you had from the keynote. 3.6 billion events, so it becomes apparent really fast-- >> So far this year. >> Right, even the people who are at the center of that, that's kind of hard to manage. So, you have to start using intelligence. You have to start to use business intelligence and artificial intelligence to help filter and help that person do their job much better. So, you guys are making a lot of plays there. And we see it all the time. It's not the BI vendors per se, it's the use of this technology in the background to make apps work better. >> And it's the fact that not only do we correlate the signals and turn them into intelligent insights, but we can then route those signals intelligently to the right people, and orchestrate the actual physical work. So, a lot of the technology community has been focused on just that, technology. And our focus is really on people and teams. How do you empower teams closest to the action, closest to where the proverbial stuff hits the fan. >> Right, right. >> I had to really exercise restraint there. To be in a position to make the best possible decision in those tiny micro-moments that matter. And the consumer, like used to wait maybe six minutes for a website to download. Now, if an app doesn't work perfectly in six seconds, maybe three seconds, you're gone. I walk out of the building in our office in San Francisco, and see our employees and they're toggling back and forth between ride sharing apps and food delivery apps, and Tinder, and whatever else is going on. And it's literally like in a couple of minutes, they're working through eight, nine applications at once. And if any one of those does not work the way it's supposed to, they're done. >> Right, right. >> They just move on. And it's one or two times before they'll delete that. >> Right. >> So, the technology community is now responsible for delivering the perfect brand experience digitally every time. And they've got to be empowered to do that with the right tools and services. >> And the expectation is set by the best. That's the funny thing, right? What was the best or cutting edge quickly becomes the expected norm. >> What is the most delightful thing that ever happened to me, well, that's what I want from you. >> Right. >> That is basically the way it works. >> Right, right. And you talked about trust, and trust is such an important part because one of the key pieces that you guys are enabling, you talked about it in your keynote, is letting the person at the front line in that moment of decision have the tools, and the data, and the authority to make the right call. And it's not a escalation up the food chain, waits, and some emails. It's really empowering that individual to get the right thing done. >> And that's a core tenet of DevOps culture. It's actually born and agile, in fact. But what's really interesting about it is it's the way companies need to be run now. If PagerDuty waited for me to make every big decision, we would be back where we were three years ago. >> Right. >> Right. And as a result of being able to empower our teams with great information, very clear understanding of our goals, and the timeframes we expect to achieve those goals, and then context as we progress through our journey to understand how we're doing against those goals, it gives them the power and the intelligence to make better decisions every moment when I obviously can't be there, or their leadership can't be there. And in fact, it means that the most important decisions are getting made where the person's closest to our end customer, the user. >> Right. >> And that makes a ton of sense to me. Even if it's not the way I was taught leadership, or taught to manage. >> Right, well, you clearly get out front and run those people down that big, giant mountain. >> Well, I just, you know-- >> Every time we meet-- >> I got to figure it out, man. >> I learned about Australia last time I saw you speak at the Girls in Tech thing. So, this is great. Another thing that you acknowledge in your keynote I want to get into is that tech people are imperfect. They are imperfect and that's kind of part of what the DevOps ethos is is that that's okay, we're just going to make it better today than it was yesterday. And I think Ray Kurzweil's keynote about exponential growth and just the power of compounding, which so many people miss out on. So, that's really where you're trying to help people solve problems. It isn't to big eureka moment, it's how do we learn, how do we get better, how do we make improvements? >> Well, and a lot of people in the valley talk about failing fast. In order for failing fast to have a benefit for a company, you not only have to be allowed to fail, it has to be okay when you fail, and there has to be an open transparent conversation about what you learned, what went wrong? And that has to be a blameless, high-empathy discussion or it doesn't work. If someone thinks they're going to get fired by marching you through all the details of their failure, they're never going to tell you the truth. So, when we think about incidents as they come up, or something breaking, not working the way it's supposed to, or a business initiative not turning out the way we thought it would, there has to be a blameless conversation so that everybody in that community learns, so we're better the next time around. And that's where the compounding benefits come. >> Right, right, to the whole team, in fact. I thought the quote, I've never seen that quote that you brought up today. Teamwork remains the ultimate competitive advantage because it's both so powerful and so rare. That is a really scary statement, but we see it all the time. In fact, that was in another keynote and there was a behaviorist talking about, how do we get everybody pulling in the same direction? And John also talked about that in terms of incident post-mortems and how do you make sure that you're learning and not just filing reports. >> Totally. >> So, you guys are right in the middle of that. >> I thought John captured it really well when he said, "It's not about the technology. "We spend all of our time monitoring "and talking about the technology. "It's about us. "And it's us that actually makes this technology great "and applies it so effectively to problems, "and challenges, and opportunities "in our world and in our lives." what's also interesting is Patrick Lencioni's paradigm around the first team. So, most employees come into a business and they think the most important world for me in this company is my team, the people in the team who I report to, a leader, and it's just us. Or for leaders, they say it's just the team that reports into me. Your first team is your peer group. Your first team is that, and by first team I mean the most important, highest priority, aligned organism that is going to drive massive change in a business, it's your peer group. It's the people who work across functions to help reduce friction in a business. >> And drive fast outcomes and great results, right? But most people naturally kind of hunker down into their core team and that's the beginning of the silo mentality. >> Right. >> Right. And so, one of the things I love about Patrick's book, and you're going to hear about that tomorrow onstage, is this idea of what it takes to be an ideal team player, to be humble, to be hungry like good is never good enough, and to be smart, to like constantly be learning, to really care deeply about how you continue to push the envelope to get better. >> Right. So, I want to switch gears a little bit from the people in the individual teams to the ecosystem. You had the ton of partners here at the show, and you talked about in the keynote, 300 integrations. >> Yeah. >> And I think some people might be confused, right? Because it's always this wrestle for whose screen am I working on when I'm doing my daily job? But as you said, we're in a lot of different screens, right? And I'm going back from Salesforce. I'm in my G Suite. Maybe I'm jumpin' into Hootsuite for some social stuff. You guys have basically embraced the ecosystem for all these different types of systems, and really kind of plugged into that. I wonder if you can explain a little bit more. 'Cause I'm sure most people might be confused by that. >> You know, I sort of think of us in the same way I would think of like the brain of an Olympic athlete. That athlete, their arms, their legs, their muscles, their pulmonary capability, like the respiratory system is all super important to their performance. But the brain has to accept the signals from all the different parts of the body, and then work through them, correlate them, and then drive action, right? And I sort of think of PagerDuty as sitting at the center of this rapidly changing technology ecosystem, this live organism, and really understanding the signals no matter what, is it raining, is there a pothole in the ground, et cetera? And be able then to drive change in the process on the fly to help the body perform more effectively. The challenge is like if you try and fight with the arms, and the legs, and every other part of the body, they don't work nicely with you. >> Right. >> So, being central to the ecosystem is about being neutral, and agnostic, and really demonstrating you will not only say you will partner, but investing in those partnerships. So, we built first class integrations to companies that may see us as competition, if that's what our customers need. >> Right, 'cause like you said, it's got to be customer-- >> Totally. >> Customer centric first. >> And it's an open ecosystem, and this is what developers, and employees, and tech workers expect. >> Right, and to your point, the amount of data that's flowin' through that nervous system is only getting more. And the amount of noise to get through to the signal-- >> Figure out-- >> To take the right action. >> What really is important. >> Is not getting any easier, right? >> Yeah. >> All right, Jennifer, well thanks again for havin' us. Congratulations on the funding and the great show, and it's always great to catch up. >> Thank you, I have the best job in the world. I feel very lucky. >> All right. >> It's great to see you, Jeff. >> Thank you, all right, she's Jennifer Tejada, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watchin' theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit where they actually show summits on the keynotes screen. Thanks for watchin', we'll see you next time. (bouncy electronic music)

>> From Union Square in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering PagerDuty Summit '18. Now here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBe. We're at PagerDuty Summit at the Westin St. Francis in Union Square, historic venue. Our second time to this show, there's about 900 people here talking about kind of the future of dev ops, but going a lot further than dev ops. And we're excited to have a couple of CUBE alumni here at the conference from SignalFX. We've got Arjit Mukarji. >> Mukarji, yeah. >> Thank you. And Karthik Rao, co-founder and CEO of Signal FX. Gentlemen, welcome. >> Thank you very much. >> So what do you do at PagerDuty Summit? >> Well we've been partners with PagerDuty for a long time now, we've known them since the very early days, we share a common investor. But we both operate very squarely in the same space, which is companies moving towards dev ops development and deployment methodologies, leveraging cloud and native architectures. We solve a different part of the problem around monitoring and observation and we partner with them very closely around incident management Once a problem is detected, we typically integrate in with PagerDuty and trigger whatever incident management paths that our customers are orchestrating by PagerDuty. So, it's been really an integral part of our entire work flow since we started the company. So we're very close partners with them. >> Yeah, it's interesting 'cause Jen announced they have 300 integrations or 300+ integrations, whatever the number is, and to the outside looking in, it might look like a lot of those are competitive, like there's a lot of work flow and notification types of partners in that ecosystem, but in fact, lots of different people with lots of different slices of the pie. >> That is good. >> Yeah, absolutely. It's a really big problem space that everyone is trying to solve in this day and age. Some of our competitors are in that list, but you know we partner very closely with PagerDuty. As I mentioned earlier, our focus really is around problem detection and leveraging the most intelligent algorithms, statistical models in real time to detect patterns that are occurring in a production environment and triggering an alert, and typically we're integrating in with PagerDuty and PagerDuty deals with the human elements of once something has been detected, how do you manage that incident? How do you router to the appropriate people? One of the things that's really interesting as this world is changing towards these dev ops models is the number of people that have to get involved is substantially greater than it was before. In the old days, you would have an alert go into a knock and you have a specialist group of people with very specific runbooks because your software wasn't changing very often. In today's world, your software is changing sometimes on a daily basis, and it could be changing across dozens of teams, hundreds of teams in larger organizations. And so, there's a problem on the detection side because companies like SignalFX have to do a really great job of detecting problems as they emerge across these disparate teams, across a much, much, much, larger environment with much larger volumes of data and then companies like PagerDuty really have to deal with a far more complex set of requirements around making sure the right people get notified at the right time. And so they're two very different problems and we're very happy to- and have been partnering with them for a number of years now. >> And again, the complexity around the APIs where the app is running, there's so many levels now of new complexity compared to when it was just one app, running on one system, probably in your own data center, probably that you wrote, compared to this kind of API centric multi-cloud world that we live in today. >> That is exactly right because what's happening is our application architectures are changing 'cause we used to have these monoliths, we used to have three tiers and whatnot, and we're replacing that with the micro-services, loosely cabled systems, and whatnot. At the same time, the substrate on which we are running those services, those are also changing. Right, so instead of servers, now we have virtual machines, we have cloud distances and containers and pods and what-have-you. So in a way, we are sort of growing below too in some sense and so that's why sort of monitoring this kind of complex, more numerous environment is becoming a harder challenge. We're doing this for a good cause, because we want to move faster, we want to innovate faster, but at the same time, it's also making the established problems harder, which is sort of what requires newer tools, which sort of brings companies like us into the picture. >> Right, yep. And then just the shear scale, volume, number of data that's flowing through the pipes now on all these different applications is growing exponentially, right? We see time and time again, so it really begs for a smarter approach. >> Absolutely, I mean on two levels right? The number of minutes of software consumption is up exponentially, right? Since the smartphone came out in 2007, you've got billions of people connected to software now, connected all the time, so the load is up order sum magnitude which is driving, even if you didn't change the architectures, you would have to build out substantially more back-end systems, but now the architectures are changing as well, where every physical server is now parceled up into VMs which are parceled up into containers. And so the number of systems are also up by order sum magnitude. And so there's no possible way for a human to respond to individual alerts happening on individual systems, you're just going to drown in noise. So the requirements of this new world really are, you have to have an analytic spaced approach to monitoring and more automation, more intelligence around detecting the patterns that really matter. >> Right. Which is such a great opportunity for artificial intelligence, right, a machine learning. And we talk about it all the time, everyone wants to talk about those, kind of as a vendor-led something that you buy. Yeah, that's kind of okay, but really where the huge benefit is, companies like you guys and PagerDuty using that technology, integrated in with what you deliver on your core to do a much better job in this crazy increasing scale of volume that's run with these machines. >> Yes, because the systems are becoming so complex that even if you asked a human to go and set up the perfect monitoring or perfect alerting, et cetera, it might be quite a hard challenge, right? So, as a result sort of automation, computer intelligence, et cetera needs to be brought in to bear, because again, it's a more complex system, we need higher order systems that have dealed with them. >> Right. >> You are very, very right, yes. And that's a trend we are starting to see within the product, we are actually focusing a lot on sort of data science capabilities which too are sort of making them more and more sort of machine running and automation. In the future, we have capabilities in the product that can look at populations and identify outliers, look at cyclical problems and identify outliers again. So the idea is to make it easy for users to monitor a complex system without having to get into the guts, so to speak. >> Right. >> And to do it on various sorts of data, right? I think you have an interesting use case that we've been experimenting with recently. >> That's right. >> If you want to talk about that. >> Yeah, so I actually have a talk tomorrow, it's called "Interesting One." It's about monitoring social signals, monitoring humans. So we have these systems, we have these metrics platforms and they are quite generic, the tools that we have nowadays and are sort of available to us are quite powerful, and the set of inputs need not be isolated to what the computers are telling me. Why not look at other things, why not look at business signals? In my case, I'm going to talk about monitoring what the humans are doing on Slack as a way for me to know whether there's something of interest that's going on in my infrastructure, in my service that I need to be aware of, right? And you'll be shocked how surprisingly accurate it tends to be. It's just an interesting thing, and it makes one wonder what else is out there for us to sort of look at? Why confine ourselves, right? >> Right. It's funny because we hear about sentiment analysis in social media all the time, but more in the context of Pepsi or a big consumer brand that's trying to figure out how people feel. But to do it inside your own company on your own internal tool, like a Slack, that's a whole different level of insight. >> You'd be surprised at the number of companies that monitor Twitter to understand whether they have an adage. >> That's right. >> Yeah, because in this day and age, users are on Twitter within seconds if something is perceived to be slow, or something is perceived to be down, they're on Twitter. So there are all sorts of other interesting signals to potentially pull from. >> Right, right. Well and guess what, we were just at AT&T Spark yesterday and the 5G's coming and it's 100x more data'll be flowing through the mobiles, so the problem's not going to get any smaller any time soon. >> No. >> Absolutely. >> So what else have you guys been up to since we last spoke? Continuing to grow, making some interesting moves. >> Absolutely- >> Crossing oceans. >> We've been very, very busy, one of the big areas of investment for us has been international growth, so we've been investing quite a bit in Europe. We have just introduced an instance of our service that's based in a European data center. For a lot of our European-based clients, they prefer to have data locality, data residency within the European Union, so that's something new that we just introduced last month, continue to have a ton of momentum, outed AMIA, they're very much on the cloud journey, and embracing cloud and embracing dev ops, so it's really great to see that momentum out there. >> Right, and clearly with GDPR and those types of things, you have to have a presence for certain types of customers, certain types of data. Anything surprising in that move that you didn't expect or? >> No, I don't know, I'll let you. >> Not in that move, but it's just interesting to see how quickly some of these modern technologies are getting adopted and how- one of the things sort of we talk about a lot in our trade is ephemeral, right? So how things are short-lived nowadays, and you used to lease these servers that used to stay in your data center for three years, then you went to Amazon and you leased your instances, which probably lived for a few months or a few days, then they became containers, and the containers sometimes only for a few hours or for- you know. And then, if you think about serverless and whatnot, it's in a whole different level, and the amount of ephemeral that's going on, especially in the more cloud native companies, was a little bit of a surprise in the sense that, it actually poses a very interesting challenge in how do you monitor something that's changing so fast? And we had to have a lot of engineering put in to sort of make that problem more tractable for us. And it continues to be an area of investment. That to me, was something that was a little bit of a surprise when we started off. Much of this doctorization and coordinating was not yet in place, and so that was an interesting technical challenge as well as a surprise. >> Well I'm curious too as instances, right so there's the core instances that are running core businesses that don't change that much, but it's a promotion, it's a this or that, right? It's a spin up app and a spin down app. Are those even going up on the same infrastructure from the first time they do it to the second time they do it. I mean, how much are you learning that you can leverage as people are doing things differently over and over again as their objectives change, their applications change, they're going to go to market around that specific application. That's changing all the time as well. >> Yeah, so I think the challenge there is to sort of build, at least from a technical point of view, from SignalFX point of view, is build something that is versatile enough to handle these different use cases. We've got new use cases, new ways of doing things are going to continue to happen, probably going to keep on accelerating. So the challenge for us is good and bad, is how do we make a platform that is generic, that can be used for anything that may come down the pike, not only just now. At the second time, how do we innovate to continue to be up to speed with the latest of that's what's going on in terms of infrastructure trends, software delivery trends, and whatnot. Because if we're not able to do that, then that puts us sort of behind. >> Right, right. >> So it's a sort of lot of phonetic innovation, but it's also exciting at the same time. >> Right, right, right. And just the whole concept too, where I think what's best practice quickly becomes expected baseline really, really fast. I mean, what's cutting edge, innovative now unfortunately or fortunately, that become the benchmark by which everything else is measured overnight. That's the thing that just amazes me, what was magical yesterday is just expected, boring behavior today. Alright good, so as we get to the end of the year a lot of exciting stuff, you guys said you're going to be at Reinvent, we will see you there. Anything else that you're looking forward to over the next couple months? >> Just, we're really excited about Reinvent's big show for us, and we'll have some good announcements around the show. And yeah, looking forward to just continuing to do what we've been doing and deliver more rally to our customers. >> Love it, just keep working hard. >> Yep. >> Alright. Arjit, hope your throat gets better before your big talk tomorrow. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Alright, thanks for stopping by Karthik, it was great to see you. >> Great to see you. >> I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE, we're at PagerDuty Summit at the Westin St. Francis in San Francisco. Thanks for watching, see you next time.

>> From Union Square in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Pager Duty Summit '18. Now, here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey welcome back here everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at Pager Duty Summit 2018, at the Weston St. Francis, Union Square in San Francisco. It's a beautiful day outside, a really historic building, and we're happy to be here for our second Pager Duty Summit, and our next guest, super excited to have him, we didn't have him last year. He's Alex Solomon, the Co-Founder and CTO of Pager Duty, Alex, great to see you. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely, so we were just talking a little bit. Before we turned the cameras on, you started this little adventure in '09, so it's been nine years. So what, I'd just love to get your perspective, as you come to something like this, and look at all these people that are here, to see what started as just a germ of an idea, back in your head nine years ago. >> Yeah, it's exciting to see such an amazing conference. We have over 800 people here today, and it's definitely buzzing. I could feel the excitement in the air. >> Right, well Ray Kurzweil is the Keynote, that's getting right up there. >> Exactly. >> Really an amazing story. One of the things that was, that was key to Ray's topic was the accelerating technology curve, in terms of power and performance, and it's not linear, it accelerates, and you guys have seen a huge growth in your business, and your throughput and all the incidents that you're reporting, and now we're talking about BI, and using Machine Learning and Artificial Intelligence to make some sense and to help filter through all this phenomenal amount of throughput. So how are you, how do you see that opportunity, how are you guys grasping the opportunity? What are you going to do with that Machine Learning? >> Sure, so about three months ago, we launched our new Event Intelligence product, which is all about capturing the, all the signals coming out of all of your different tools, things like monitoring tools. Things like ticketing systems, collaboration tools like Slack, and processing all those signals, mostly events and alerts and filtering out the noise. So a lot of alerts and events are not necessarily relevant for someone to get paged about in the middle of the night. Maybe it's a false alert, maybe it's something that has gone up, and will fix itself. >> Right. >> So it's about filtering out all the noise in there, and it's also about automatically clustering, and correlating related events. So we take those events in, and then we group them together into incidents, and we determine the surface area of the problem, which systems are affected, and we page those people, and only those people, so that they can respond to the incident. >> Right. So do you leverage the total learning of the Pager Duty System, in kind of an anonymized way, so you can leverage the multi-billions of dollars worth of incidents to get that type of learning, that was one of Ray's key themes, it helps if you have a billion of something, if you want to start applying some of these Machine Learning techniques. >> Exactly, so the more data you have when you're applying AI and ML, the better the results will be. We have over nine years of data that we've accumulated since founding the company, and we leveraged that for (mumbles) conditions, so for, I'll give you an example. If you're looking at an incident, you just got paged for something, or multiple people got paged, and you're looking at an evolving situation, our algorithms will automatically look in the past, and see has this type of problem happened before? Have you seen this type of incident before? Have you seen these events come in before, that are similar to this and, if so, what happened last time? >> Right. >> Who solved it, what was the resolution, so you can apply that knowledge, to the problem, and resolve it much faster. >> Right. So is it? So you do it both within the existing company, and their ecosystem so yeah, Joe solved it last time, Suzie solved it the time before, as well as to get more of an aggregate, of kind of an anonymized of we see this pattern over and over and over, this might be what you're looking at. >> Yeah, and we haven't done the aggregate picture yet, but it's something that we're very excited about, because we have the potential to become kind of like the Internet weather, where we can tell, based on the number of customers that we have, problems with the Internet, such as, let's say one of the Public Cloud providers is having an issue. Well, they have lots of customers that are Pager Duty customers, and they can now see oh, we have, we're seeing all of this additional incident activity, in this part of the Internet. >> Right. So there's something going on. >> Right. >> And we can start, this is an opportunity that we're very excited about, start telling, being able to tell, oh there's a problem with one of the Cloud providers, there's a problem with one of the main, big infrastructure providers that is commonly used by a lot of different companies. >> Right, because so many of these systems now, are so interdependent. You've got all these APIs, from all these different applications, all these different Cloud providers, and the whole thing stitched together so, trying to figure out where that little, the glitch is, is not necessarily as easy as when you kind of controlled everything. >> Exactly. >> It's funny too, because Jen had a line from her Keynote, which you just triggered. She said, "You know, we're the ones that want to be up, "when the rest of the world seems down." >> Yeah, exactly. >> So, let me expand on that a little bit. So you were the Founder. Jennifer came in a couple years ago, if I recall. I'm sure everyone who loves the classic entrepreneur tale, who liked to watch the show. You founded it, you got it to a certain point, and at some point you decided, you're going to bring in a new CEO. Wonder if you can talk a little bit about how that process went down. Kind of your thoughts as a Founder, of making that transition to see your company go, from this stage to that stage. >> Sure, sure, so yeah, I was the Founding CEO. I built, well me, not just by myself, but with my two Co-founders, and with the great team that we hired, we built the company from zero to over fifty million in annual recurring revenue. The company, when we decided to make that transition, I got into about 200 people or so. So a pretty good scale starting from nothing. >> Yeah, and to a fifty million run right, that's good. >> Yeah, and I'm a first-time entrepreneur, so I haven't done this before, and at that point we had a lot of work to do on the product side of things, like a lot of exciting new things, such as Event Intelligence that we just launched earlier this year, and other products are on Analytics and Visibility, that we're announcing here today. But I found myself spending a lot of my time, inside the building hiring and managing, and I didn't get enough of an opportunity to talk to customers and think about product, and think about the vision, what should we be building next? >> Right, right. >> So I wanted to go and focus more of my time in that direction. I initially started by thinking, maybe I can hire a CEOO, like a Chief Operating Officer to run Sales/Marketing and I can focus on Product and Engineering. Did a lot of due diligence, and talking to other CEOs who had been there, and done that, and realized that while that may solve some problems, it introduces new ones, and that the best bet is to find a World Class CEO. Like the best people out there in the world, are going to command that title, and they're going to want that role. >> Right. >> And I could still get to focus on product, and on talking to customers, and on vision, by replacing myself and taking on a CTO role, so that's what I ultimately decided to do. Had lots of help from the Board, who was very supportive in this decision, and they helped a lot with the interview process for, and the screening process for finding Jennifer. >> Well, you did good. We've known Jennifer for a long time, so I think that was one of your better hires. >> Absolutely. >> In the long history of the company. >> My best hire. Your best hire, very good. Well, and again, congratulations, it's funny you know, you see it over and over right? Overnight successes that are 10 years in the making. You know clearly, your last round of funding was a huge validation on your guy's strategy, and where you're taking the company, and then I just want to call out too, you guys were chosen for the Ernst & Young Co-founder, wait, hold on, the Entrepreneur of the Year Award 2018. Which is funny because you always think of that as maybe a little company just getting started right, or a really early entrepreneur. But you guys have been at this for nine years. Again, really good validation as to where you are in the market, and people realizing the value that you guys are delivering, so congratulations on that. >> Thank you very much. >> Alright Alex, well thanks for taking a few minutes from I'm sure, a very busy couple of days, and it was great to meet you. >> Absolutely, thanks for having me on the show. >> Alright, he's Alex, I'm Jeff. We're at Pager Duty Summit 2018, thanks for watching. (bright music)

(upbeat techno music) >> From Union Square in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering PagerDuty Summit '18. Now, here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty summit in the Westin St. Francis, Union Square, San Francisco. We're excited to have our next guest, this guy likes to get into the weeds. We'll get some into the weeds, not too far in the weeds. Armon Dagar, he's a co-founder and CTO of HashiCorp. Armon, great to see you. >> Thanks so much for having me, Jeff. >> Absolutely, so you're just coming off your session so how did the session go? What did you guys cover? >> It's super good, I mean I think what we wanted to do was sort of take a broader look and not just talk too much just about monitoring and so the talk was really about zero trust networking. Sort of the what, the how, the why. >> Right, right, so that's very important topic. Did Bitcoin come up or blockchain? Or are you able to do zero trust with no blockchain? >> We were able to get through with no blockchain, thankfully I suppose. >> Right. >> But I think kind of the gist of it when we talk about, I think that the challenge is it's still sort of at that nascent point where people are like, okay, zero trust networking I've heard of it, I don't really know what it is or what mental category to put it in. So I think what we tried to do was sort not get too far in the weeds, as you know I tend to do but sort of start high level. >> Right, right. >> And say, what's the problem, right? And I think the problem is we live in this world today of traditional flat networks where, I have a castle and moat, right? I wrap my data center in four walls, all my traffic comes over a drawbridge, and you're either on the outside and you're bad and untrusted or your on the inside and you're good and trusted. And so what happens when a bad guy gets in, right? >> Right. >> It's sort of this all or nothing model, right? >> But now we know, the bad guys are going to get in, right? It's only a function of time, right? >> Right, and I think you see it with the Target breech, the Neiman Marcus breech, the Google breech, right? The list sort of goes on, right? It's like, Equifax, right? It's a bad idea to assume they never get in. (laughing) >> If you assume they get in, so then, if you know the bad guys are going to get in, you got to bake that security in all different levels of your applications, your data, all over the place. >> Exactly. >> So what are some of the things you guys covered in the session? >> So I think the core of it is really saying how do we get to a point where we don't trust our network, where we assume the attacker will get on the network and then what? How do you design around that assumption, right? And what you really have to do is push identity everywhere, right? So every application has to say, I'm a web server and I'm connecting to a database, and is this allowed, right? Is a web server allowed to talk to the database? And that's really the crux of what Google calls Beyond Crop, what other people call sort of zero trust networking, is this idea of identity based where I'm saying it's not IP one talking to IP two, it's web server talking to database. >> Right, right, because then you've got all the role and rules and everything associated at that identity level? >> Bingo, exactly. >> Yeah. >> Exactly, and I think what's made that very hard historically is when we say, what do you have at the network? You have IPs and ports. So how do we get to a point where we know one thing is a web server and one thing's a database, right? >> Right. >> And I think the crux of the challenge there, is kind of three pieces, right? You need application identity. You have to say this is a web server, this is a database. You need to distribute certificates to them and say, you get a certificate that says you're a web server, you get a certificate that says you're a database and you have to enforce that access, right? So everyone can't just randomly talk to each other. >> Right, well then what about context too, right? Because context is another piece that maybe somebody takes advantage of and has access to the identity but is using it in way or there's an interaction that's kind of atypical to what's expected behavior, it just doesn't make sense. So context really matters quite a bit as well. >> Yeah, you're super, super right and I think this is where it gets into not only do we need to assign identity to the applications but how do we tie that back into sort of rich access controls of who's allowed to do what, audit trails of, okay it seems odd, this web server that never connects to this database suddenly out of the blue doing so, why? >> Right, right. >> And do we need to react to it? Do we need to change the rule? Do we need to investigate what's going on? >> Right. >> But you're right. It's like, that context is important of what's expected versus what's unexpected. >> Right, then you have this other X factor called shared infrastructure and hybrid cloud and I've got apps running on AWS, I've got apps running at Google, I've got apps running at Microsoft, I got apps running in the database, I've got some dev here, I've got some prod here. You know that adds another little X factor to the zero trust. (laughing) >> Yeah, I think I aptly heard it called once, we have a service mess on our hands, right? (laughing) >> Right, right. >> We have this stuff so sort of sprawled everywhere now, how do we wrangle it? How do we get our hands around it? And so as much as I think service mess is a play on sort of the language, I think this is where that emerging category of service mesh does make sense. >> Right. >> It's really looking at that and saying, okay, I'm going to have stuff in private cloud, public cloud, maybe multiple public cloud providers, how do I treat all of that in a uniform way? I want to know what's running where. I want to have rules around who can talk to who. >> Right. >> And that's a big focus for us with Console, in terms of, how do we have a consistent way of knowing what's running where a consistent set of rules around who can talk to who. >> Right. >> And do it across all these hybrid environments, right? >> Right, right, but wait, don't buy it yet, there's more. (laughing) Because then I've got all the APIs right? So now you've got all this application integration, many of which are with cloud based applications. So now you've got that complexity and you're pulling all these bits and connections from different infrastructures, different applications, some in house, some outside, so how do you bring some organization to that madness? >> No, that's a super good question. If you ever want to role change, take a look at our marketing department, you've got this down. (laughing) You know, I would say what it comes down to a heterogeneity is going to be fundamental, right? You're going to have folks that are going to operate different tools, different technologies for whatever reasons, right? Might be a historical choice, might be just they have better relations with a particular vendor. So our view has been, how do you inter op with all these things? Part of it is focus on open source. Part of it is focus on API driven. Part of it is focused on you have to do API integrations with all these systems because you're never going to get sort of the end user to standardize everything on a single platform. >> Right, right. It's funny, we were at a show talking about RPA, robotic process automation, and they, they treat those processes as employees in the fact that they give them identities. >> Right. >> So they can manage them. You hire them, you turn 'em on, they work for you for a while and then you might want to turn them off after they're done whatever doing, that you've put them in place for. But literally they were treating them as an employee. >> Right. >> Treating them with like an employee lead identity that they could have all the assigned rules and restrictions to then let the RPA do what it was supposed to do. It's like interesting concept. >> Yeah, and I think it mirrors I think what we see in a lot of different spaces which is what we were maybe managing before was the sort of very physical thing. Maybe it was we called it Robot 1234, right? Or in the same way we might say, this is server at IP 1234. >> Right. >> On our network. And so we're managing this really physical unit, whether it's an IP, a machine, a serial number. How do we take up the level of abstraction and instead say, you know actually all of these machines, whether IP one, IP two, IP three, they're a web server and whether it's robots one, two or three, they're a door attach, right? >> Right, right. >> And so now we start talking about identity and it gives us this more powerful abstraction to sort of talk about these underlying bits. >> Right. >> And I think it sort of follows the history of everything, right? Which is like how do we add new layers of abstraction that let us manage the complexity that we have? >> Right, right, so it's interesting right in Ray Kurzweil's keynote earlier today, hopefully you saw that, he talked about, basically exponential curves and that's really what we're facing so the amount of data, the amount of complexity is only going to increase dramatically. We're trying to virtualize so much of this and abstract it away but then that adds a different layer of management. At the same time, you're going to have a lot more horsepower to work with on the compute side, so is it kind of like the old Wintel, I got a faster PC, it's getting eaten up by more windows? I mean, do you see the automation being able to keep up with kind of the increasing layers of abstraction? >> Yeah, I mean I think there's a grain of that. Are we losing, just because we're getting access to more resources are we using it more efficiently? I think there's some fairness in, with each layer of abstraction we're sort of introduction additional performance cost, sort of to reduce that, but I think overall what we might be doing is increasing the amount of compute tenfold, but adding a 5% additional management fee, so it's still, I think it's still net and net we're able to do much more productive work, go to much bigger scale but only if you have the right abstractions, right? And I think that's where this kind of stuff comes in is, okay great, I'm going to have 10 times as many machines, how do I deal with the fact that my current security model barely works at my current scale? How do I go to 10x the scale? Or if I'm pointing and clicking to provision a machine, how does that work when I'm going to manage a thousand machines, right? >> Yeah. >> You have to bring in additional tooling and automation and sort of think about it at the next higher level. >> Yeah. >> And I think that's all, all part of this process of adopting cloud and sort of getting that leverage. >> It's so interesting, just the whole scale discussion because at the end of the day, right, scale wins and there's a great interview with James Hamilton from AWS, and it's old, but he's talking about kind of scale and he talks about how many server that were sold in this whatever calendar year it was, versus how many mobile phones were sold and it's many ores of magnitude different and the fact that he's thinking in terms of these types of scales as opposed to, you know, which was a big number in the service sales side, but really the scale challenge introduced by these giant clouds and Facebook and the like really changed the game fundamentally in how do you manage these things. >> Totally, totally and I think that's been our view at HashiCorp, is that when you talk about about kinds of the tidal shift of infrastructure from on premise, relatively static VMware centric to AWS, plus Azure, plus Google, plus VMware, it's not just a change of, okay it's of one server here to one server there. It's like going from one server here to 50 servers that I'm changing at every other day rather than every other year, right? >> Right, right. >> And so it's this sort of order of magnitude of scale but also an order of magnitude in terms of sort of the rate of change as well. >> Right, right. >> And I think that puts downward pressure on how do I provision? How do I secure? How do I deploy applications? How do I secure all of this stuff, right? >> Right. >> I think ever layer of the infrastructure gets hit by this change. >> Right, right, alright so you're a smart guy. You're always looking forward. What are some of the things you're working on down the road? Big challenges that you're looking forward to tackling? >> Oh, okay, that's fun. I mean I think the biggest challenge is how do we get this stuff to be simpler for people to use? Because I think what we're going through is you get this sort of see-saw effect, right? Which is okay, we're getting access to all this new hardware, all this new compute, all these new APIs, but it's not getting simpler, right? >> Right, right. >> It's getting exponentially more complicated. >> Right, right. >> And so I think part of it is how do we go back to sort of looking at what's the core of drivers here? It's like, okay well we want to make it easier for people to deliver and deploy their applications, let's go back to sort of, in some sense, the drawing board, say how do we abstract all of these new goodies that we've been given but make it consumable and easy to learn? Because otherwise, you know, what's the point? It's like, here's a catalog of 50,000 things and no one knows how to use any of it. >> Right, right, right. (laughing) Yeah it's funny, I'm waiting for that next abstraction for AWS, instead of the big giant slide that Andy shows every year. (laughing) It's just that I just want to plug in and you figure out. >> Right. >> What connects on the backend. I can't even hardly read that stuff-- >> Maybe AI will save us. >> Let's hope so. Alright Armon, well thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day and sitting down with us. >> My pleasure, thanks so much, Jeff. >> Alright, he's Armon, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE, we're at PagerDuty Summit in downtown San Francisco, thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> From Union Square in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering PagerDuty Summit '18. Now here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit 2018 at the Westin St. Francis in Union Square, San Francisco. Great event, 900 people, we're excited to be here, it's our second year, and now we get to talk to some customers, which we are always excited to do. And our next guest is Alan Alderson. He is the Director of IT Ops for William Hill. Great to see you. >> Afternoon, it's great to be here. >> Absolutely, so for people that aren't familiar with William Hill, what are you guys all about? >> So William Hill offer customers opportunities to place bets on sporting events, presidential elections, snow at Christmas, you name it. We present about a million opportunities every week for customers to have a bet on. >> A million opportunities a week? >> Yeah, so picking on football matches, you know the game of the ramble. So we have opportunities for people to bet playing up to the game, and then once the game kicks off, we transition into what's called in play, so people can then place a bet on who's going to score the next goal, and about another 120 markets within that one game whilst the game's in play. >> Wow, so what's the average duration of the window to put a bet down? >> So generally leading up to the match it's as much time as you want, as soon as the markets are out there you can place the bet before the game kicks off. >> Okay. >> But once the game kicks off, you can, right up until about towards the last few minutes of the game, there'll be markets available to have a bet on. >> Okay, and then what percentage is kind of things that I would guess easily, like sporting events or those types of things, versus you know, whether it's going to snow or not? >> Well we provide the opportunities on the website, so you can have a look and, you know it's snow on Christmas day is a popular bet. People do their research, and they like to have a bet on it. There is a lot of novelty bets. There used to be, you know, life being found on Mars, Elvis being found, et cetera. So there's a lot >> Still taking action on Elvis? >> I don't think so. >> I thought we'd find him. So we're here at PagerDuty Summit. What are you doing here at PagerDuty Summit? >> So I've just come back from a stint in Australia, working for the William Hill business over there. So we introduced PagerDuty over there to help out with just getting the right message out to the right support teams quickly. So we deployed it out there, and we just brought it in to do infrastructure to start with but once we deployed it, it's a bit of a ripple effect. So it was like dropping a pebble into a pool, the ripple effect, and everybody, they seem to be doing all right over there, they use it now for the support models and so those sorts of questions. It's very quick how the other teams decided to latch onto PagerDuty as well. So I since moved back to the UK. So I moved back in January, took on this role back in the Leeds office in the north of England, and one of the first things I said is, guys, start having a look at PagerDuty, we've deployed it successfully in Australia, so let's have a look at what it can do for us. And so management works at William Hill. So I'm not trying to fix anything that's broken. So, it works. But what we can do is increase its speed of how we deal with things. So there's a lot of manual tasks in there that PagerDuty will come in and automate. It will take the pressure off the incident analysts 'cause, you know if there's an incident at two o'clock in the morning, we have 24 by seven business, so if there's an incident overnight, we've got to get on it and start fixing, resolving the incident. And if there's one guy who's trying to call out a number of responders, calling out a duty manager, trying to get comms out, it's a lot of pressure on one person to do that, and when there's pressure mistakes happen. I want PagerDuty to take away the possibility of the mistakes, take the pressure of the incident analyst, so they can focus on resolving the incident and getting service back to our customers as quickly as possible. >> I'm curious though when you said that other people and other groups saw PagerDuty in action. What were some of the other tasks that were not the primary tasks that you brought it in, where people saw value and are implementing it for some other types of activities? >> So initially when we put it in, we put it in purely for service. So for looking at the CPU disk and memory alerts. And we were getting our acknowledgements down from minutes to seconds in Australia. So the other teams are watching in, and within their applications there was a lot of alerts just landing as an email and not getting actioned upon very quickly. So we brought PagerDuty in, they said, can this help out in this space, and they started integrating it into their applications. So through hooking it into their applications they could get the alerts directly from PagerDuty, rather than it going through knocks and service decks et cetera, so it's just a quicker response and get 'em onto the issue quicker. >> And do you have it integrated in with some of your other development tools so it's just kind of part of whole process, or is it more kind of standalone notification system? >> It was integrated straight into ServiceNow and PagerDuty. PagerDuty would integrate with ServiceNow, raise the ticket, and then the things started moving. But the big win was getting the guys the call straight away as that alert happened. Otherwise you're relying on people watching screens, watching queues, waiting for that to happen, and then make the call. So if the call's gone straight to the engineer, he's on it immediately. >> Right, right, right. So what are some of your impressions here? Seeing kind of the ecosystem, what's behind PagerDuty, some great keynotes earlier today, really in terms of, again, the mission it sounds like it's very much in line with what you're trying to do, which is to help teams be more effective. >> Yeah, and what I like about PagerDuty is their passion. You just get a sense of urgency about this place, and you get a sense of passion and commitment, and they want to help people out, and that's what's drawn me to PagerDuty. The guys I worked with in Australia, the guys I worked with in the UK, they just can't do enough for you, and they want to help you succeed as well. You know, you deals with some companies that, they just want to sell you something and move on. These guys are, you know, they look after you, they work with you and they make sure that you're getting the value out of their product. >> It's a pretty interesting culture, 'cause when I talked to Jennifer Tejada a couple of years ago, I used to tease her, I'm like, nobody here knows what a pager is, right? Nobody was born when pagers were >> I had one. >> the rage. >> You had one, yeah, I had one. Shell Oil upside down, I think it says hello, I can't remember, I have to check that. But it's an interesting, there's kind of culture around what a pager represents, and the work that they have duty in there as well, which is a very different kind of level of responsibility when you are the person with the pager on, and that seems to have really carried forward in the way that they deliver the services. >> Yeah, yeah. I mean, on-call has people running, doesn't it? When people, you know when they join a job and go, "Oh you might be expected to be on call", they run a mile, and they think that's not for me. But as we go down more of a DevOps transformation and we get a lot more down the we code it, we own it model, I think it'll change people's perceptions of being on call and just doing the right thing for the business, rather thank, you know, delivering something and expecting the Ops team to fix it all the time and call out the developers at a third line. We should be, we are heading towards being a team, where the alerts go to the right people at the right time, and we get issues resolved as soon as possible. >> Right. I'd just love to get your take on, a lot of talk about digital transformation, and the modernization of IT, and kind of expected behavior on apps going on. You're right in the middle of it. >> Massively in the middle of it. >> Massively in the middle of it, right. I'm sure, what percentage of your bets come in via mobile versus... >> On the digital platform, over 56%. >> A lot, right, a lot. >> And we've got, just said in the last session we had is, we've got competition. So if our app isn't performing, it isn't quick, or it's down, people will go elsewhere. They've got options, they've got choices, and they'll just go elsewhere. And the challenge is getting those customers back. We want to have a stack that just is available and is performing, so we don't drive customers away, or we make sure that things are available at peak times, so when they are wanting to bet on the Super Bowl, the Grand National, the three o'clock kickoffs on a Saturday afternoon in the UK, it's available for them and people can get the bet on as quickly as possible. >> Right. So do you have all your own infrastructure, or do you leverage public cloud? I'm just thinking as you're talking about Super Bowl and some of these other big events, you must have just crazy big spikes. >> You know we've, in the UK it's all on-premise, so we've got to build an infrastructure to cope with that one day of the year, which is Grand National. In the US, we've just opened up in New Jersey. The front end of that stack is in AWS, so we can scale, so when Super Bowl does turn round next January, February, we should be able to scale with the load. >> Right, last question before I let you go. What are your priorities next? What are some of the things that you're working on with your team, to kind of stay at the leading edge of this very competitive space? >> Yeah we're heading into AWS. So we're looking to move into Amazon next year, start migrating some applications in there, and we're looking to get some applications in there the back end of this year, but migrate the existing apps from the start of next year. We're going through a DevOps transformation. We've been doing an agile transformation as well over the last 12 to 18 months, so there's a huge amount of digital transformation going on at William Hill at the moment. It's a very, very exciting place to be. The US expansion, the place has just gone mad, you know. There's a lot going on, it's just a great place to be. >> Yeah, I mean significant changes obviously in the US attitude, I think you guys are a little more progressive on that side of the Atlantic. Big changes happening here. >> 14th of May was a big day, PASPA being repealed has opened up the betting opportunities in any state that wants to regulate. And we are leading the way in that charge at the moment, so it's very exciting. >> All right, well I'm going to let you go so you can get some sleep, 'cause I'm sure you're a very busy man. Alan, thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, he's Alan, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE, we're at PagerDuty Summit 2018, thanks for watching.

>> From Union Square in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering PagerDuty Summit '18, now here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit 2018 at the Westin St. Francis in Union Square, San Francisco. Been here all day, a lot of excitement, a lot of buzz, some great keynotes including Ray Kurzweil checking in, which was really a cool thing. We're excited to have our next guest, she's Rachel Obstler, she's a VP of products for PagerDuty. She's the one responsible for delivering all this fun new, fun new toys, right? >> Did it all on my own. (laughs) >> All on your own, so Rachel, great to see you. >> Nice to see you, too, Jeff. >> Absolutely, so great event, we were talking, you know, our second year. Last year was cool, it was kind of out by the water, but this is, you know, another kind of historic, classic San Francisco venue. We're surrounded by all the gilding and everything else-- >> Yes. >> Tech companies with all their displays. >> Yeah, there are not a lot of spaces that are big enough to do an event like this-- >> Right. >> In San Francisco proper unless you're going full-on Moscone Center, so... (chuckles) >> You'll be there soon enough, I think. >> Maybe. (laughs) >> So, let's get into it, you announced a bunch of new products here over the last couple days, so what did, let's go through some of those announcements. >> Sure, so we announced two new products. One of them is PagerDuty Visibility, and PagerDuty Visibility is really designed for the person that we call the bow-tie knot in the organization. >> The bow-tie knot. >> The bow-tie knot, so you know, you have a bow-tie, a bow-tie and there's a little knot in the middle-- >> Right. >> So, the bow-tie knot is usually an engineering leader, it's someone who when there's a problem happening, an incident going on, that they're kind of coordinating between keeping track of what's going on on the ground with the responders actually trying to fix it, and telling all the stakeholders what is going on, because stakeholders don't understand things like the server XXX has some problem, right? >> Right, right. >> But at the same time you don't want those executives getting on a call and disrupting the responders who are actually busy working on the issue. >> Right, right. >> So, that person in the bow-tie knot has a lot of manual work to do to make sure they're translating constantly between what's going on and what the executives need to know, and they need to know because if there's an issue with a customer application you want to get in front of it. You want to be able to proactively tell your support team if tickets come in this is what you say. >> Right. >> You want to maybe even send an email to your customers, "We know there's an issue." Update your status page, "We're working on it." You know, tell them as much as you can. It gives them confidence that it's being taken care of. >> Right, so this gives them kind of the God view of all the things that the team is working on in terms of getting resolution to that problem. >> Yeah, it ties the technical services, which are the things that are jargon and gobbledygook, except for the people working on them-- >> Right. >> To what are business services, which are those customer applications that the executives understand and the customers understand, so with that tie you know when a technical service is impacting a customer application, which one it's impacting, and you can also let the right people know who are responsible for that customer application, what they need to know so they can let the customers know. >> Right, so what happened before without having kind of a central place to manage that communication and that visibility? >> That bow-tie knot person did this all manually. >> Just running around gathering facts and figures-- >> Yep. >> And status and updates-- >> Yep, and then-- >> From various points on the compass. >> And then fielding phone calls with people, yelling at them-- >> Right, right. >> And it's a very painful, you know, we talked to a lot of customers. It's a very painful position to be in. >> Right, well that's a good one, and then you have another one, PagerDuty Analytics. >> Yes, so PagerDuty Analytics is really a product more used during peacetime, so Visibility's used during wartime to make sure responders know which customer applications are being impacted, but during peacetime there's a number of operational analytics that you want to know about all the realtime work that you're doing. So, some examples are I had a set of engineers that were on call last week, was it a bad on call? How many times were they woken in the middle of the night, do I need to give someone a day off? Right, so to make sure you manage the health of your team. You may also want to know which of my technical services is causing the most pain for the business, so that might be a monthly or quarterly report, doing like a quarterly business review. So, which technical services do I need to invest in because even a technical service that may not be down that much, if it's impacting multiple critical customer applications it could be causing your business a lot of money. >> Right, right. >> You also may want to know what's your total time that you're spending resolving issues, right? So, how many hours are across all your employees? Are you spending, just reacting to realtime issues that may happen and is that too much? >> Right, and if you can't measure it you can't manage it, right? >> Exactly. >> And it's funny because pulling from Jen's keynote earlier today, I think she talked about, the number was 3.6 billion incidents that have gone through the system just in year-to-date 2018. >> Yep. >> So, the scale is massive. >> Yep. >> But you guys are bringing some artificial intelligence, you're bringing some machine learning to bear because you have to, right? >> That's right. >> This gets way beyond the scope of a person being able to really prioritize and figure out what's a signal, what's a noise, what do they have to really focus on. >> That's exactly right, so in June we launched a product called Event Intelligence, and what it does is it takes in all those signals that PagerDuty takes into the system and then it makes sense of them. So, it says, "Well, these things are related, "let's group them together," so as each new signal comes in it won't create a new incident that someone then needs to run down. It will put it in the existing incident, so the responder keeps getting all the context they need about the incident, but they don't keep getting notified while they're trying to concentrate and fix something. >> (chuckles) They must love you guys, they must love you guys. (laughs) So, then the other piece I found interesting and I think some might find a little confusing is all the number of integrations you guys have-- >> Mm-hm. >> With so many different kind of workflow management and monitoring and a lot of things. How does that work, how does that kind of... I would imagine there's some, you know, competition, cooperation with all these different applications, but as Jen said earlier today if that's what the customer wants that's what you guys got to deliver. >> That's right, and you know, this is a complex ecosystem, there are a lot of different tools in the ecosystem. Naturally, as companies get bigger there will be areas of overlap, but we very strongly believe in an open ecosystem. We want to interoperate with every product that's out there, so we do have a lot of different integrations. We have a lot of integrations with companies where we take data in, so monitoring data that tells you, "Hey, your server's down," or whatever else it is-- >> Right. >> But we also have a lot of integrations with, like, ticketing tools, tools that will, or a customer file's a ticket, so that, you know, you can have the information, this is what's going on in the engineering side right now so the customer support team can stay informed. >> Right. >> And also managing through workflow, a lot of companies use like an ITSM tool to manage through workflows, so integrating with them, integrating with chat tools. We integrate with Slack, you know, so there's a lot of different integrations because you want to make sure that resolving an incident is the smoothest, easiest process it can possibly be because it's stressful enough already. >> Right, right, so a lot of stuff going on here. So, as you look forward don't, you know, congratulations on getting a couple of products out today, but what are some of your priorities as you kind of look at the roadmap, you know, kind of where you guys have things covered. Where do you see some new opportunities to take, you know, some of the tools that you guys have built? >> Yeah, we see a big opportunity in that world of Event Intelligence, so we already have a product but we're going to continue to add more capabilities to it and continue to take advantage of the data in our platform. So, surfacing that data in more intelligent ways through Event Intelligence could also be through Analytics, so for instance, you know, we today can group things together intelligently, we can show you similar incidents, right? This incident looked like something that happened in the past. Well, next maybe we can say, "This looks like something that happened in the past, "and oh, gee, that got really bad. "You might want to pay special attention "because this one may get bad, too." >> Right. >> So, starting to get more predictive, really making sense of all the data that you have from the past history, our 10,500 customers over nine years. It's a lot of data that we can use to help people get more and more efficient with their realtime work. >> Right, and is there an opportunity to kind of use cross-customer data, not, you know, obviously you've got to anonymize it and all those types of issues, but clearly, you know, there's stuff that has happened to other companies that I could probably, you know, benefit in knowing that information around some, you know, some common attributes either around a particular type of infrastructure configuration or whatever. So, have you started to pull that and bake that back into some of the recommendations or... >> Yeah, so one area that we do have available as some data today is benchmarking, so without, as you said, sharing any specific customer data it's very helpful for customers to understand first of all how their individual teams are performing versus their teams, but then also how their teams are performing against the industry. >> Right. >> So, are we fast at responding to incidents? What does best in class look like? How quickly could you actually mobilize a response to a major incident? This is like great data for our customers to have as they move forward in their digital transformation. >> Right, hugely, hugely important. >> Mm-hm. >> So, last word, you said you've, you know, you're relatively new to the company but you're a wily old veteran because you guys are growing so fast. (laughs) Just love to get your impressions. It's your second PagerDuty Summit, you know, kind of the vibe, I think Jen's got a really, very positive and very specific kind of a leadership style. >> Mm-hm. >> Just share your impressions with the show and what's going on inside of PagerDuty. >> It's been great, I've loved every moment that I've worked there. I feel like we're doing things that are really innovative and we're always pushing the envelope trying to go faster and faster, so I'm really excited for the next year. >> Good. >> Can't wait to see what the next Summit looks like. (laughs) >> Yeah, what it's going to look like. Yeah, probably be like 2,000-- >> We're not even done with this one yet. (laughs) >> 2,000 people, I'm sure, all right. Yeah, but the Advanced Planning Committee's already taking notes, right? >> Yeah, right. (laughs) >> All right, well Rachel, thank you for taking a few minutes and congratulations on your product release. I'm sure there were many sleepless nights over the last several months to get that stuff out. >> Thank you, Jeff, great to be here. >> All right, she's Rachel, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE, we're at PagerDuty Summit in San Francisco, thanks for watching. (techy music)

(upbeat techno music) >> From Union Square in downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering PagerDuty Summit '18. Now, here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're in downtown San Francisco, actually the Westin St. Francis on Union Square, historical property, this beautiful ballroom, lots of brocade and fancy stuff from another era but we're talking about this era and the era of information. We're here at PagerDuty Summit and we're really excited to have one of the keynote speakers, John Allspaw join us. He is the co-founder of Adaptive Capacity Labs. John, great job on the keynote. >> Thanks, thanks a lot, I'm glad that it landed. >> You know it's funny, we go to literally hundreds of tech conferences a year and so often, the tech is talked about but as you brought up, where is the human factors? Where are the people? Where in all these lovely diagrams, as you pointed out, with beautiful lines and everything is very straight and boxes are very clear, that's not really how the real world works at all. >> No, no, yeah, that's what I find really fascinating which is that, certainly get a lot of attention to incidents when they show up, outages and that sort of thing but we don't get a real shot at understanding how non incidents happen and they happen all the time, right? Outages are being prevented all day long. But it doesn't really get our attention. >> Right. >> And it doesn't get our attention because that seems normal and that's the sort of, this assumption that there's a like a quiet sort of background and that an incident is sort of like a punctuation of something bad and that otherwise sticks up, you know, like Mount Hood, right? >> Right, right. >> But the fact of the matter is there's so much going on. >> Right. >> And that's actually that stuff that's going on, is this activity that people are doing to prevent outages continually and that's what I find fascinating. >> So you really never get like your classic kind of experiment where you can isolate the variables, right? >> No. >> Because they're all completely co-mingled, all the time? >> Yeah, and that's what fascinating. What I like and we always say is that we study cognitive work, and the difference between sort of these types of human factors and cognitive work studies and the difference between that and say sort of classic psychology is classic psychology can be done in a lab. We study cognition in the wild. >> Right, right. >> As they say. The natural laboratory that is the world. >> Right, and the other thing I thought you brought up which was really interesting is really kind of what's the point, right? Is the point just to fix it? Is the point to try to identify this little link and fix it? Or is the point kind of a higher level objective which is to actually learn so that we're doing the things in the future that keep this thing from happening again? And you summarized it really, really well and you talked about the post mortem which you said, "Are you doing this report to be read or are you doing it to be filed?" Very different objectives, going to have a very different report at the end of the process. >> Right, right, right, yeah. I think that the sort of the danger is if we, as an industry, I think we just need to bring some attention to that and the good news is that it's hard work to look at incidents in a different way. It's a way that we're not used to. It's effectively qualitative research. It's difficult but it's not impossible, it can be learned, it can be taught and my hope is that sort of these sorts of bringing attention to the topics will get people to be curious and want to understand more. >> Right and really take it up a notch and I think, again, you have some really easy to implement lessons there, like what are the questions? Document the questions, >> Yeah. >> In the post mortem. >> Yeah. >> Document the concerns in the post mortem. Did those concerns happen? Did they not happen? Why didn't they happen? So really kind of take it up a level from the incident, really, as kind of a catalyst for a conversation and learning but that's really not what the foundational effort should be around, is fixing that little thing? >> Right, right. Well and that's the thing, is if the goal is to fix, and that is the goal, you're going to find something to fix. It may or may not be helpful. What you fix comes from exploring and there are things that shouldn't be fixed, right now. Everybody's making decisions, I mean, this is the entire premise of Agile which is that continual iterative re prioritization, recalibration of what's important so we'll be happy to put effort into that but yet, it seems disingenuous to phone it in. >> Right. >> When it comes to understanding incidents. >> Right, right. You got on to so many things, we could go forever and ever. One of things you talked about and it's often spoke about, is winners write the history books. It was really about the bias that you bring to a problem. What do you think is the most important and what filter and lens are you both looking at the problem, reporting the problem or diagnosing and then reporting the problem which may or may not be root cause, may or may not be the most important thing about that but those biases influences not only is that problem perceived but then documented, resolved and talked about after the fact. Really important. >> Yeah, yeah, absolutely and there's something really paradoxical about that. One of the things that it brings to mind is that I don't think that yet we are in a world where we, when I say we, I mean the software industry, will bring attention to a report on near misses. The scenarios where, you know what? You thought you were in dev but you were in prod and you ran a command that if it had a couple of other parameters, it would have destroyed everything but it turns out that actually, it was this one, you know these couple of characters made it such that it was a near miss. It wasn't a big deal. Is that an incident, right? >> Right, right. >> On the one hand you could say, well there are no customer impact. >> Right. >> So therefore let me look up on my, oh, no, that's not an incident so therefore we shouldn't pay any attention to it. But think of any other sort of high tempo, high consequence domain? >> Right. >> They've learned, aviation is a good example. There are organizations in aviation that will, actually and they find them to be incredibly useful because they're low risk things to pay attention to. It didn't happen this time but we can bring attention to the possibility that it might go poorly the next time. >> Right, so what triggers the action to recognize that you had a near miss? And is that working it's way into best practices dev ops? >> Well, I mean, at my organization, at Etsy, I certainly, full disclosure, I made quite a good number of mistakes at Etsy. This isn't one of them. Getting into habit of what had happened there was people sending PSA e-mails, public service announcements and it was basically the format was, hey everybody, check this out, I was doing this and I went to go do blah, and I almost exploded everybody. So FYI if you're doing this, don't do this. Everything's cool and I'm going to put in these things to sort of help it out, but until we get that done, be really careful about this part, you know, whatever. Even just that, even small things like that, keep the topic of how precarious these scenarios can be in the minds of people who aren't experiencing incidents. >> Right, right. >> Tomorrow you might be that one, or tomorrow you might be, and so here's your colleague like taking the time to spend some effort, could be saving your bacon tomorrow. >> Right. >> You might be in the similar spot. >> Right. How's it codified and how is it communicated. So another concept you touched on, which has a broader implication, but you talked about specifically and really that's diversity of opinions leads to better decision making and you gave some examples of bringing in disparate members of various teams with different experiences, points of view. >> Yeah. >> To pull out things like the esoteric knowledge, to pull out the institutional knowledge. >> Yeah. >> But more importantly, to pull out a different point of view. So we hear about it a lot with diversity of teams, and sects, and culture, et cetera but even with the context of solving an engineering problem diversity and points of view does lead to better problem solving. >> I want to make sort of a crisp clarification. It is the variety of perspectives actually the variety of expertise and the variety of experience, not opinions or perspectives. Perspective you can probably, that's word you can probably go with. I wouldn't say diversity of opinion, that has a connotation that is not concrete enough. >> Okay. >> What we're talking about is cognitive work, how people assess this is something that requires my attention. It requires my attention in these ways based on my experience with this particular type of problem over this different variations of it. >> Right. >> Yeah, I mean the general sense is, but the phrase diversity of opinion generally has like a connotation of the individual attribute of a person. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the-- >> These are individual attributes that have been gleaned through experience-- >> It's not an attribute, it's experience. >> It's experience, right okay. >> Right, exactly. An attribute of me is that I'm 5'9", my experience is that I have seen Apache break in a myriad of different, surprising ways, right? (laughter) There's sort of the difference. >> Right, right the difference, okay. But then the other point you brought up even in that conversation was it's always messy, there's always trade-offs, is you know, you get management overhead as soon as you have more than one person working on a problem, right? Now you have communication overhead, you've got management overhead so now you're pulling resources from actually devoting it to the task at hand of trying to solve the problem versus having to devote resources to bring other people up to speed, communicate, et cetera. So it's not even a really easy trade off? >> Oh yeah. >> Or not trade off, I mean but there's consequences to the action. >> Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And again, I think coping with complexity requires an equal amount of complexity, right? You might not say that a baseball team that is very good at doing double plays, right? Which is a pretty hard thing to pull off even in professional baseball. Would you say that the coach represents overhead? I don't know if you would say it that way exactly but there's certainly limitations to the sports metaphor. I like very much a renewed emphasis on building, maintaining and sort of, resolving incidents with software as much more benefiting from collaborative work. >> Right, right. >> Meaning real sort of teamwork. >> Right. >> Not just sort of sparse collaboration. >> Right, right. Well John, it's a fascinating field, we could go on all day long. >> Yes we could. >> Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there but really, really enjoyed the conversation. >> Great. >> And also the keynote earlier today. >> Great thanks a lot. Thanks for talking. >> Alright, thank you. He's John, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit at the Westin St. Francis, Union Square. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back everyone, we are wrapping up three big days of the CUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Dave Vellante and Jeffrick. It has been such fun co-hosting with you both. It's always a ghast to be with you so three days, what have we learned? We've learned we're making the world of work work better for people. Beyond that what do you think? >> New branding you know there which I think underscores ServiceNow's desire to get into the C-Suite. Become a strategic partner. Some of the things we heard this week, platform of platforms. The next great enterprise software company is what they aspire to, just from a financial standpoint. This company literally wants to be a hundred billion dollar valuation company. I think they got a reasonable shot at doing that. They're well on their way to four billion dollars in revenue. It's hard to be a software company and hit a billion. You know the number of companies who get there ar very limited and they are the latest. We're also seeing many products, one platform and platforms in this day and age beat products. Cloud has been a huge tailwind for ServiceNow. We've seen the SaaSification of industries and now we're seeing significant execution on the original vision at penetration into deeply into these accounts. And I got to say when you come to events like this and talk to customers. There's amazing enthusiasm as much of if not more than any show that we do. I mean I really got, what's your take? >> We go to so many shows and it's not hard to figure out the health of a show. Right you walk around the floor, what's the energy, how many people are there? What's the ecosystem I mean, even now as I look around we're at the very end of the third day and there is action at most of the booths still. So it's a super healthy ecosystem. I think it grew another 4,000 people from this year of the year of year growth. So it's clearly on the rise. SaaS is a big thing, I think it's really interesting play and the kind of simple workflow. Not as much conversation really about the no code and the low code that we've heard in the past. Maybe they're past that but certainly a lot of conversation about the vertical stack applications that they're building and I think at the end of the day. We talked about this before, it's competition for your screen. You know what is it that you work in everyday. Right if you use, I don't care what application. SalesForce or any SaaS application which we all have a lot of on our desktop today. If you use it as a reporting tool it's a pain. It's double entry, it's not good. But what is the tool that you execute your business on everyday? And that's really a smart strategy for them to go after that. The other thing that I just think is ripe and we talked about a little bit. I don't know if they're down playing it because they're not where they want to be at or they're just downplaying it but the opportunity for machine learning and artificial intelligence to more efficiently impact workflows with the data from the workflow is a huge opportunity. So what was a bunch of workflows and approvals and this and that should all get, most of it should just get knocked out via AI over a short period of time. So I think they're in a good spot and then the other thing which we hear over and over. You know Frank Slootman IT our homies I still love that line. But as has been repeated IT is everywhere so what a great way to get into HR. To get into legal, to get into facilities management, to get into these other things. Where like hey this is a really cool efficient little tool can I build a nice app for my business? So seemed to be executing on that strategy. >> Yeah CJ just said IT will always be at our core. Rebecca the keynote was interesting. It got mixed reviews and I think part of that is they're struggling we heard tat from some of our guests. There's a hybrid audience now. You got the IT homies, you got the DevOps crowd and then you got the business leaders and so the keynote on day one was really reaching an audience. Largely outside of the core audience. You know I think day two and day three were much more geared toward that direct hit. Now I guess that's not a bad thing. >> No and I think that I mean as you noted it's a hybrid audience so you're trying to reach and touch and inspire and motivate a lot of different partners, customers, analysts. People who are looking at your business in a critical way. The first day John Donahoe it struck me as very sort of aspirational. Really talking about what is our purpose, what do we do as an organization. What are our values, what problems are we trying to solve here and I think that that laying out there in the way that he did was effective because it really did bring it back to, here's what we're about. >> Yeah the other thing I learned is succession has been very successful. Frank Slootman stepped down last year as CEO. He's maintained his chairman title, he's now stepped down as chairman. Fred kind of you know went away for a little while. Fred's back now as chairman. John Donahoe came in. People don't really put much emphasis on this but Fred Luddy was the chief product officer. Dan McGee was the COO, CJ Desai took over for both of them. He said on the CUBE. You know you texted me, you got big shoes to fill. He said I kept that just to remind me and he seems to have just picked up right where those guys left off. You know Pat Casey I think is understated and vital to the culture of this company. You know Jeff you see that, he's like a mini Fred you know and I think that's critical to maintain that cultural foundation. >> But as we said you know going the way that Pat talked about kind of just bifurcation in the keynote and the audiences in the building and out of the building. Which I've never heard before kind of an interesting way to cut it. The people that are here are their very passionate community and they're all here and they're adding 4,000 every single year. The people that are outside of the building maybe don't know as much about it and really maybe that aspirational kind of messaging touched them a little bit more cause they're not into the nitty gritty. It's really interesting too just cause this week is such a busy week in technology. The competition for attention, eyeballs and time. I was struck this morning going through some of our older stuff where Fred would always say. You know I'm so thankful that people will take the time to spend it with us this week. And when people had choices to go to Google IO, Microsoft build, of course we're at Nutanix next, Red Hat Summit I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of other ones. >> Busy week. >> The fact that people are here for three days of conference again they're still here is a pretty good statement in terms of the commitment of their community. >> Now the other thing I want to mention is four years ago Jeff was I think might have been five years ago. We said on the CUBE this company's on a collision course with SalesForce and you can really start to see it take shape. Of the customer service management piece. We know that SalesForce really isn't designed for CSM. Customer Service Management. But he talked about it so they are on a collision course there. They've hired a bunch of people from SalesForce. SalesForce is not going to rollover you know they're going to fight hard for that hard, Oracle's going to fight hard for that. So software companies believe that they should get their fair share of the spend. As long as that spend is a 100%. That's the mentality of a software company. Especially those run by Marc Benioff and Larry Ellis and so it's going to be really interesting to see how these guys evolve. They're going to start bumping into people. This guy's got pretty sharp elbows though. >> Yeah and I think the customer relation is very different. We were at PagerDuty Summit last right talked to Nick Meta who just got nominated for entrepreneur of the year I think for Ink from GainSight and he really talked about what does a customer management verses opportunity management. Once you have the customer and you've managed that sale and you've made that sale. That's really were SalesForce has strived in and that's we use it for in our own company but once you're in the customer. Like say you're in IBM or you're in Boeing. How do you actually manage your relationship in Boeing cause it's not Boeing and your sales person. There's many many many relationships, there's many many many activities, there's somewhere you're winning, somewhere you're losing. Somewhere you're new, somewhere you're old and so the opportunity there is way beyond simply managing you know a lead to an opportunity to a closed sale. That' just the very beginning of a process and actually having a relationship with the customer. >> The other thing is so you can, one of the measurements of progress in 2013 this company 95% of its business was in IT. Their core ITSM, change management, help desk etc. Today that number's down to about two thirds so a third of the business is outside of IT. We're talking about multi-hundreds of millions of dollars. So ITOM, HR, the security practice. They're taking these applications and they're becoming multi-hundred million dollar businesses. You know some of them aren't there yet but they're you know north of 50, 75 we're taking about hundreds of customers. Higher average price, average contract values. You know they don't broadcast that here but you know you look at peel back the numbers and you can see just tremendous financial story. The renewal rates are really really high. You know in the mid 90s, high 90s which is unheard of and so I think this company is going to be the next great enterprise software company and their focus on the user experience I think is important because if you think about the great enterprise software companies. SalesForce, Oracle, SAP, maybe put IBM in there because they sort of acquired their way to it. But those three, they're not the greatest user experiences in the world. They're working on the UI but they're, you know Oracle, we use Oracle. It's clunky, it's powerful. >> They're solving such different problems. Right when those companies came up they were solving a very different problem. Oracle on their relational database side. Very different problem. You know ARP was so revolutionary when SAP came out and I still just think it's so funny that we get these massive gains of efficiency. We had it in the ARP days and now we're getting it again. So they're coming at it from a very different angle. That they're fortunate that there are more modern architecture, there are more modern UI. You know unfortunately if you're legacy you're kind of stuck in your historical. >> In your old ways right? >> Paradigm. >> So the go to market gets more complicated as they start selling to all these other divisions. You're seeing overlay, sales forces you know it's going to be interesting. IBM just consolidated it's big six shows into one. You wonder what's going to happen with this. Are they going to have to create you know mini Knowledges for all these different lines of business. We'll see how that evolves. You think with the one platform maybe they keep it all together. I hope they don't lose that core. You think of VM world, rigt there's still a core technical audience and I think that brings a lot of the energy and credibility to a show like this. >> They still do have some little regional shows and there's a couple different kind of series that they're getting out because as we know. Once you get, well just different right. AWS reinvents over $40,000 last year. Oracle runs it I don't even know what Oracle runs. A 65,000, 75,000. SalesForce hundred thousand but they kind of cheat. They give away lot of tickets but it is hard to keep that community together. You know we've had a number of people come up to us while we're off air to say hi, that we've had on before. The company's growing, things are changing, new leadership so to maintain that culture I think that's why Pat is so important and the key is that connection to the past and that connection to Fred. That kind of carried forward. >> The other thing we have to mention is the ecosystem when we first started covering ServiceNow Knowledge it was you know fruition partners, cloud Sherpas I mean it. Who are these guys and now you see the acquisitions, it's EY is here, Deloitte is here, Accenture is here. >> Got Fruition. >> PWC you see Unisys is here. I mean big name companies, Capgemini, KPMG with big install bases. Strong relationships it's why you see the sales guys at ServiceNow bellying up to these companies because they know it's going to drive more business for them. So pretty impressive story I mean it's hard to be critical of these guys, your price is too high. Okay I mean alright. But the value's there so people are lining up so. >> Yeah I mean it's a smoking hot company as you said. What do they needed to do next? What do you need to see from them next? >> Well I mean the thing is they laid out the roadmap. You know they announced twice a year at different cities wit each a letter of the alphabet. They got to execute on that. I mean this is one of those companies that's theirs to lose. It really is, they got the energy. They got to retain the talent, attract new talent, the street's certainly buying their story. Their free cash flow is growing faster than their revenue which is really impressive. They're extremely well run company. Their CFO is a rockstar stud behind the scenes. I mean they got studs in development, they got a great CEO they got a great CFO. Really strong chief product officer, really strong general managers who've got incredible depth in expertise. I mean it's theirs to lose, I mean they really just have to keep executing on that roadmap keeping their customer focus and you know hoping that there's not some external factor that blows everything up. >> Yeah good point, good point. What about the messaging? We've heard as you said, it's new branding so it's making the world of work work better, there's this focus on the user experience. The idea that the CIO is no longer just so myopic in his or her portfolio. Really has to think much more broadly about the business. A real business leader, I mean is this. Are you hearing this at other conferences too? Is it jiving with the other? >> You know everyone talks about the new way to work, the new to work, the new way to work and the consumers they sort of IT and you know all the millennials that want to operate everything on their phone. That's all fine and dandy. Again at the end of the day, where do people work? Because again you're competing everyone has, excuse me many many applications unfortunately that we have to run to get our day job done and so if you can be the one that people use as the primary way that they get work done. That's the goal... >> Rebecca: That's where the money is. >> That's the end game right. >> Well I owe that so the messaging to me is interesting because IT practitioners as a community are some of the most under appreciated. You know overworked and they're only here from the business when things go bad. For decades we've seen this the thing that struck me at ServiceNow Knowledge 13 when we first came here was wow. These IT people ar pumped. You know you walk around a show the IT like this, they're kind of dragging their feet, heads down and the ServiceNow customers are excited. They're leading innovation in their companies. They're developing new applications on these platforms. It's a persona that I think is being reborn and it sound exciting to see. >> It's funny you bring up the old chest because before it was a lot about just letting IT excuse me, do their work with a little bit more creativity. Better tools, build their own store, build an IT services Amazon likened store. We're not hearing any of that anymore. >> Do more with less, squeeze, squeeze. >> If we're part of delivering value as we've talked about with the banking application and link from MoonsStar you know now these people are intimately involved with the forward facing edge of the company. So it's not talking about we'll have a cool service store. I remember like 2014 that was like a big theme. We're not hearing that anymore, we've moved way beyond that in terms of being a strategic partner in the business. Which we here over and over but these are you know people that header now the strategic partner for the business. >> Okay customers have to make bets and they're making bets on ServiceNow. They've obviously made a bunch of bets on Oracle. Increasingly they're making bets on Amazon. You know we're seeing that a lot. They've made big bets on VM ware, obviously big bets on SAP so CIOs they go to shows like this to make sure that they made the right bet and they're not missing some blind spots. To talk to their peers but you can see that their laying the chips on the table. I guess pun intended, I mean they're paying off. >> That's great, that's a great note to end on I think. So again a pleasure co-hosting with both of you. It's been a lot of fun, it's been a lot of hard work but a lot of fun too. >> Thank you Rebecca and so the CUBE season Jeff. I got to shout out to you and the team. I mean you guys, it's like so busy right now. >> I thought you were going to ask if we were going next. I was going to say oh my god. >> Next week I know I'm in Chicago at VMON. >> Right we have VMON, DON, we've got a couple of on the grounds. SAP Sapphire is coming up. >> Dave: Pure Accelerate. >> Pure Accelerate, OpenStack, we're going back to Vancouver. Haven't been there for a while. Informatica World, back down here in Las Vegas Pure Storage, San Francisco... >> We got the MIT's CTO conference coming up. We got Google Next. >> Women Transforming Technology. Just keep an eye on the website upcoming. We can't give it all straight but... >> The CUBE.net, SiliconAngle.com, WikiBon.com, bunch of free content.- you heard it here first. >> There you go. >> For Rebecca Knight and Jeffrick and Dave Vellante this has been the CUBE's coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18. We will see you next time. >> Thanks everybody, bye bye.