>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE covering, empowering the Autonomous Enterprise brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Welcome back everybody to this special presentation of theCUBE where we're covering The Rebirth of Oracle Consulting. It's a digital event where we're going out, we're extracting the signal from the nose. We happen today to be in Chicago which is obviously, the center of the country, a lot of big customers here, a lot of consultants and consulting organizations here, a lot of expertise. Mike Owens is here, he's a group V.P. for cloud advisory and a general manager of Oracle Elevate. Mike, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Hi, I appreciate it, I'm glad to be here. >> So I got to ask you, Elevate in your title, what is Oracle Elevate? >> Yeah, Oracle Elevate was actually announced Oracle Open World last year, and it's the partnership that we really had to actually take our scale the next level. So it's actually did it with Deloitte Consulting. So the goal is to actually take the capabilities of both organizations, Deloitte really has functional capabilities and expertise with an oracle practice, and obviously, Oracle has Oracle technical expertise. The combination of the two really allows us to scale, provide, what I call the one plus one equals three effort for customers. >> Now, you've got a decent timeline or observation over the past several years. I think you joined three years ago? >> Yeah. >> You were at some brand name companies. First of all, what attracted you to come to Oracle Consulting? >> Yeah, absolutely. So Oracle was in the point where they were doing a lot of stuff around on-prem, on-premise software. The old ERP type stuff, they were doing cloud, they sort of had to had this sort of transformational moment. I was asked to come in on Oracle Consulting in the early days and say, hey look, we're trying to transform the organization from on-prem consulting over to cloud consulting, come in and help us with the stuff that you've worked from your prior two cloud companies and help us really move the organization forward and look at things differently. So it's definitely been a journey over the last three years. I've taken it from really 85 percent of, the 90 percent of our revenue around on-prem type of engagements to now actually split in the organization being dedicated 100 percent on Cloud, which is a huge transformation in the last three years. >> What really, what's the underpinning of Gen 2 cloud? Can you give us sort of the bumper sticker on that? >> Yeah, all about the underpinning the Gen 2 cloud is really, if you look at the gen 1 cloud was purely just an infrastructure layer. Gen 2 is really based on a segmenting security which is a huge problem out in the marketplace. >> Mm-hmm. >> So we actually have a sort of a world-class where we take segment security outside of the actual environment itself, it's completely segment which is awesome, right? But then they also, when you actually move it forward, the capability of the entire thing is built on sort of the Autonomous Enterprise or autonomous capabilities, everything is sort of self-healing, self-funding, or not, sorry, self-healing and self-aware, that continually moves it forward. So, the goal with that is, is if you have something that takes mundane tasks back to that you have people that are no longer doing those capabilities today. So the underpinning of that, and what that allows you to do, is actually take that business case and you reduce that because you're no longer having a bunch of people do things that are no value add. Those people can actually move on to do it back to that innovation and doing those higher level components. >> So the business case is really about, I mean, primarily, I would imagine about labor cost, right? I.T., labor costs that we're very labor intensive, we're doing stuff that doesn't necessarily add differentiation of value to the business, you're shifting that to other tasks, right? >> Yeah, so the big components are really the overall cost of the infrastructure, what it takes to maintain the infrastructure and that's broken up into kind of two components. One of it is typical power, physical location, a building, all those kinds of things, and then the people that do the automations that take care of that at the lower level. The third level is, as you continue to sort of process and automation going forward, the people capability that actually maintains the applications becomes easier because you can actually extend those capabilities out into the application, then require fewer people to actually do the typical day-to-day things whether it's DBAs, et cetera, like that. So it kind of becomes a continuous stream. There's various elements of the business case, you could sort of start with just the pure infrastructure cost and then get some of the process and automations going forward and then actually go that even further. And then as organizations as a CIO, one of the questions I always have is, where do you want to end on this? And they say, well what are you talking about? It is really-- >> Dave: We're never done! >> You're on a journey, you're on a transformation, I go, this is the big-boy, big-girl conversation. Do you want to have an organization that actually, it stays the same from a headcount standpoint? Are you trying to look to a partner to do the... Were you trying to get in your operating model? What is your company trying to get you to look at, right? Because all those inflection points takes a different step in the cloud journey. So as the advisor, as the trusted advisor, I ask those half a dozen or so questions, I would kind of walk your organization through on sort of a cloud strategy and I'll pick the path, to kind of works with them and if they want to go to a managed service provider at the end, we would actually prepare someone either bring the partner in or have associated partner we put it off to. But we put the right pieces in place to make sure that that business cake works. >> Well that's interesting, that's a really important point because a lot of customers would say, I don't want to reduce head count, I'm starving for people, I want to retrain people. You know, some companies may want to say, hey, okay, I got to reduced headcount, it's a mandate. But most, at least in these boom times are saying, I want to shift. So my point to the business case is, if you're not going to, you know, cut people, then you have to have those people be more productive. >> Correct. >> The example that you gave in terms of making the application developers more productive is relevant. And I want to explain this, is that, for example, very simple example, I'm inferring you're going to be able to compress the time to value, you're going to reduce, lower your break even, you know, accelerate the time to positive cash flow, if you will. >> Absolutely. That's an example of a value component to the business, and part of the business case. Do people look at that and is that real? >> Absolutely, that's what it is. Definitely, the business case and when you call the... You know, when you get your rate of return, right? >> Mm-hmm. >> The more that we can compress that, and I would say back to the conversation we had earlier about Elevate and some of the partnerships we have with Deloitte around that, a lot of that is to actually come up with enough capabilities that we can actually take the business case and actually reduce that and have special other things we can do for our customers around financing and things like that to make it easier for them. We have options to make customers and actually help that business case. Some of the business cases we've seen are entire I.T. organization saving 30 plus percent. Well, if you multiply that on a, you know, a large Fortune 100 that may have a billion dollar budget, that's real money. >> Okay, yes, no doubt. But then, when you translate that into the business impact, like you talked about the I.T. impact, but if you look at the business impact now it becomes telephone numbers. And actually the CFOs often times just don't even believe it, but it's true. >> Yes. >> Because if you can make the entire organization just you know, a half a percentage point more productive and you got 100,000 employees, I mean, that is, that overwhelms, actually, the I.T. business case. >> Yeah, and that's where back to sort of the steps in the business case is on the business and application side is making those folks actually more productive in the business case and saving them, and adding, you know, whether it's a financial services getting an application out to market that actually generates revenue. So that's, it's sort of the trickle effect. So when I look at it, I definitely look at it from a I.T. all the way through business. I am technically a business architect that does I.T. pretty damn good. >> Yeah, and I.T enables that sort of business transformation. >> Absolutely. >> How do you... Let's talk about this notion of continuous improvement. How are people thinking about that, 'cause you're talking a lot about just sort of self-funding, and self-progressing, sort of an organic entity that you're describing. How are people thinking about that? >> Yeah, I would say they're kind of a little bit all over the map. But I would say that the goal is what we're trying to embed back to the operating model, what we want to really embed is sort of a concept of the cloud set of excellence in as part of that at the end, you have to have a set of functionality of folks that's constantly looking at the applications and or services of the different cloud providers, their capabilities you have across the board, everyone's got to multicloud environment. How do they take those services they're probably already paying for anyways, and as the components get released, how can you continually put little pieces in there and do little micro-releases quarterly? I'm sorry, weekly? You know, every month versus a big bang twice a year. Those little automation pieces continually add innovation in smaller chunks and that's really the goal of cloud computing, you know, is you can actually break it up, it's no longer the big bang theory. And I love that concept, embedding that, whether you actually have a partner with some of the stuff that we're doing that actually embed, what we call, like a day two services that that's what it is, it's to support them but us constantly, look for different ways to include capabilities that were just released, to add value on an ongoing basis. You don't have to go, hey, they're great, that capability came out, it'll be on next year's release. No, it could be next week, it could be next month. >> Well, so the outcome should be dramatically lowering costs, really accelerating your time to value. It really is, what you're describing and we've been talking about in terms of the Autonomous, you know, Enterprise. Is really a prerequisite for scale, isn't it? >> It is, absolutely. And so, when we use the term Autonomous Enterprise too, I love that because that's actually the term I've been using for a few years even before Larry started talking about the autonomous database, I talk about that environment of constantly looking at a cloud capability and everything that you can put from the machine earlier into A.I., under to basically let it run itself. The more that you can do that, the higher the value, and you can put those people off into higher level tasks. That's been going on every provider for a while. Oracle just has the capability now within the database that takes it to the next level. So we still are the only organization with that, put that on top of our Gen 2 cloud where all that is built in, as part of it going forward. That's where we have the upper level really at the enterprise computing level. We can work on all types of workload but where we are niches, is really those big enterprise workloads 'cause that's where we started from data enterprise. >> I don't want to make it a technology discussion. We said they're the only organization, you mean the only technology company with that autonomous database capabilities, is that correct? >> Yes, sir, yes. >> Okay, so I know others sort of talk about it, but, you know, Oracle I think talks about it more forcefully? >> Yes. >> We'll dig into that and report back. Mike, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Really, I appreciate it, good stuff. >> Anytime, thank you very much. >> All right, and thank you for watching. We're right back with our next guest, you're watching theCUBE. We're here in Chicago covering, The Rebirth of Oracle Consulting. I'm Dave Vellante, we'll be right back.

(upbeat music) >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Reporter: From Chicago, it's The Cube. Covering Oracle transformation date 2020. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. You're watching theCUBE, we go out to the events we extract the signal from the noise. This is a very special digital event and we're really covering the transformation not only the industry, but the transformation of Oracle Consulting and its rebirth. Mike Owens is here Group VP of Cloud Advisory and GM of Oracle Elevate, which is a partnership that Oracle announced last Open World with Deloitte, and Don Schmidt is here, who is a Managing Director at Deloitte. Gents, good to see you, welcome. >> Good to be here Dave. >> So, Don I want to start with you. Transformation, right? Everybody talks about that, there's a lot of trends going on in the industry. What do you guys see as the big gestalt transformation that's going on? >> Yeah I think there's an inflection point right now. Everybody have been saying they want to get out their data centers. The leaves haven't really been taking place, right? They've been kind of moving in small bits. We're now at the point where large transformation at scale, of getting out of your data centers, is now here. So, we are here to try to help our clients move faster. How can we do this more effectively, cost efficiently, and get them out of these data centers so they can move on with their day to day business? >> So data centers is just not an efficient use of capital for your customers. >> No, no there's lots of ways to do this a lot faster, cheaper, and get on to innovation. Spend your money there, not on hardware, floor space, power cooling, those fun things. >> Well you guys are spending money on data centers though right? So this is a good business for you all. >> Mike: We do it on behalf of other customers though. Right? >> Yeah and that's what's happening right? My customers, they essentially want to take all this IT labor cost and shift it into R&D get them on your backs and your backs right? Is this that what you see it? You know where are we in terms of that? I mean it started ten plus years ago but it really has started to uptake right? What's driving that? What's the catalyst there? >> You know so from my perspective, I've been doing this a while. A lot of it is either organizations are driving costs or what you're also seeing is IT organizations are no longer the utility in the organization and taking the orders, you're using them to try to top line value, but to do that, they actually have to take their business and change the model of it, so they can take that money and reinvest it in what Don had talked about, investment or continuous investment. So you're starting to hit those inflection points, you know years ago a CIO would be in his job for 15, 20 years, the average tenure for a CIO is you know three to five years on average, and it's because if they're not driving innovation or driving top line growth with an organization, organizations are now starting to flip that around so you're seeing a huge inflection point, with organizations really looking for IT not to be just a back office entity anymore, to truly drive them they have to transform that back to Don's point, because that inflection point, this large data center move over is a good sort of lever to kind of get them and really use it as opportunity to transform their organization. >> And the transformations are occurring, you know within industries, but at different pace. I mean some industries have transformed radically. You think about Ride shares, and digital music and the like others are taking more time, financial services, health care, they're riskier businesses, and you know there's more government in public policy so what do you see in terms of the catalyst for transformation and is there any kind of discernible, industry variance? >> Yeah there definitely is and he's mentioned some of the more start-up kind of organizations where Cloud was right for them at the early stages. These other organizations that have built these large application stacks and have been there for years, it's scary for them to say, "Let me take this big set of equipment and applications, and move it to the Cloud." It's a big effort. Starting from scratch with start-ups, that's a little different story right? So we are kind of at a different point, there are different stages within different industries, some are faster adopters than some of the others with government regulations and some of the technologies that have to kind of catch up to be able to provide those services. >> Do people generally want to take their sort of mission-critical apps which are largely running often on Oracle infrastructure database, they want to move that into the Cloud but do they want to bring that sort of Cloud-operating model to their on-prem and maybe reduce their overall data center footprint but preserve some of that? What are you guys seeing? >> So, two different probably viewpoints. So my viewpoint is, depends on the organization, depends on the regulatory they have, and there's a lot of factors in there. But I would say, as a standard organization would take their journey, mission-critical systems are historically not the first one in there. 'Cause back to the point of changing the operating model the way you want to do business and be effective, you don't go with the crown jewels first, historically, take some other work loads learn how to work in that operating model, how you're doing things change and then you evolve some of those pieces over time. There are organizations that basically, pull the band-aid off and just go right into it, right? But a lot of large enterprises sort of that's why we talk about Cloud as a journey, right? You take this journey you have to make the journey based on what's going on back what Don had talked about the regulatory requirements in history are the right controls in place for what they need at that point. If not, okay so what's an interim step to the journey? Could you bring Cloud in those capabilities on-prem and then have some of the other stuff off-prem? So it's really situational dependent, and we actually walk a customer through and now Don's organization does the same thing. You walk them through what makes best for their journey for where they're at in the industry and what they have today and what they're trying to achieve. >> So Don Deloitte doesn't just do IT it does business transformation, right? So it's like a chicken and egg, let's say that what comes first? The chicken or the egg? The IT transformation or the business transformation? >> I don't think it's an or it's an and. So have the total conversation of where's your Cloud journey for your entire enterprise, and then decide how that's going to be played out in both in IT and in the business. How the joint conversation from an enterprise perspective. >> So let's talk a little bit about the partnership, to your very well known brands, you guys get together, so what was the sort of impetus to get together? How's it going? Give us the update on that front. >> Yeah you know so from Oracle standpoint, Oracle has been really technology focused. It was really created by technologists, right? And back to the point of what we're trying to do with the Cloud and trying to do larger transformation, those aren't some of the skills that we have. We've been bringing in some of those skills in DNA, but if you look at it as why would you try to recreate this situation? Why would you not partner with an organization who does large business transformation like Deloitte? Right? And so the impetus of that is, how do we take the technology with the business transformation, pull that together and back of the one plus one equals three for my customer, right? That's what they really want, so how do we actually scale that into really big things and get big outcomes for our customers? Our partnership is not about trying to take a bunch of customers and move a couple application work loads. Our job, what we're really charted to do is make huge transformational leaps for our customers, using the combined capabilities of the two organizations. So this it's a hug paradigm for us to kind of do this. >> And in our collaboration with the two organizations just the opposite from what Mike just said right? So Deloitte wasn't really big in big IT, right? Business led transformations kind of what Deloitte's been known for, along with our cyber practice, and so we needed the deep skills of the technical experts. >> Right, so take me through what transformation engagement looks like. They don't call you up and say, "Hey want to buy me some transformation." Right? Where does it start? Who are the stake holders? How long does it take? I mean it could be multi year, I presume and never ends maybe but you want to get to business value first, so let's shorten up the time frame. Take me through typical engagement. Typical I know in quotes. And then, how long like take me through the point at which you start to get business value. What do I got to do to get there? >> Yeah so we see two different spectrums on a transformation. And it really aligns to what are your objectives. Do you just need to get out of the data center because you're on archaic dying hardware? Or do you want to take that, take your time and make a little bit more of a transformation journey? Or do you want to play somewhere in the middle of that spectrum? But on either one of those we'll come in and we'll do a discovery conversation. We'll understand what's in your data center, understand what the age or the health of your data center is, help the customers through, business case, TCO, how fast or how slow that journey needs to be for them, crave look our wave groups of how fast and we're going to sequence those over time to get out of their data center. In parallel we're going to be doing as Mike was saying running all the operational aspects. So while we're doing that discovery, we want to start standing up their Cloud center of excellence. Getting Cloud operations into the organization is a different skill set for IT to have, right? They're going to need to retrain themselves, retool themselves in the world of Cloud. So we kind of do that in parallel and then what we want to do is when we start a project, we want to start with a little POC or small little group of safe applications that we can prove how the model works. Move those into the Cloud, and then what we want to do is we want to scale at it, its large pace, right? Get the IT savings, get the cost cuts out of the organization. >> So I cleaned out my barn this weekend and the first thing I did is I got a dumpster. So I could throw some stuff out. So, is that part of the equation like getting rid of stuff? Is that part of the assessment? You know what's not delivering value that you can live without? >> Absolutely right, so there is kind of things that are just going to not go to Cloud, right? No longer need it, it's just laying around in the side, just get rid of that and move forward. >> And earlier one you'll see there's models depends you hear there's the 6 Rs, the 7 Rs and it's really the journey to Cloud it's almost you look at your status is it going to get re-platformed, is it going to get re-hosted, is it going to get retired back to your point. And if it's had something that's an appliance, right? That's something you're not going to put out to Cloud. Okay keep that in your data center. I have something that's so old, I hope it dies in the next two years. Don't spend the money move it to Cloud, let it die over the next two years. So back to the point, you kind of take this discovery and you go, where do things fall on the spectrum? And each one actually has a destination and a lever that you're going to pull, right? And if you're going to retire things okay so out of the business case, those are status quo for the next you're going to kill it over three years, right? Re-platform re-host means different things that they're going to take, right? Whether they do just to infrastructure or take advantage of PaaS or they'll go, "I'm going to blow up the entire application who directed to Cloud native services." Right? As you go through that journey you kind of map that out for them through the discovery process, and that tells you how much value you're going to get based on what you're going to do. >> But boy, this starts to get deep I mean as you used to peel the onions. So you just described what I would think of as wave 1. And then as you keep peeling you got the applications, you got the business process, you might have, reorganizations that's really where you guys have expertise, right? >> Well combined right? 'Cause yeah we're on the organizational side of things, but yeah there's a lot of things you have to sort through, right? And that's where the combined Elevate program really synergizes itself around the tools that we have. We both have tools that will help make sure we get this right, right? Deloitte has a product called Atadata, Oracle has a product called Soar, they married together properly into this transformational journey, to make sure we get the discovery done right and we get the migrations done right as well. >> Well you also have a lot of different stake holders, than you know, let's face it P&L Managers are going to try to hold on to their P&L. So you've got to bring in the senior executives. Clearly the CIOs involved is the CFO, CSWE. Who are the stake holders that you bring together in the room to kick this thing off? >> Depends on the message and depends on the outcome right? So if it's I need to get out of my data center, my data center strategy, historically the CIO. If it's there's an overall cost reduction and I want to re-implement my cost into innovating the business, sometimes that starts the CEO, CFO levels, right? >> Dave: Sure. >> So depends on that one but it is absolutely, back to your point of, the people want to hold their P&L huggers or kind of hold the cost or whatever. And one of the things, if you're not having the right conversations with people at the right level, the analogy that I've used for years is sometimes you're talking to a turkey about thanksgiving, right? So if you're trying to actually help transform and the entity is feeling that they're impacted by that negatively, even though there's a senior direction, so working through the right levels the organization to make sure you're showing how you're enabling them, it's key it's part of this journey. Helping them understand the future and how it's valuable, 'cause otherwise you'll get people that push back, even though it's the right thing for the company. We've seen that time and time again. >> Well it's potentially a huge engagement, so do you guys have specific plays or campaigns that you know I can do to get started maybe do a little test case, any particular offerings that-- >> Mike: I think-- >> Do you want to talk about the campaigns? >> So ]s under the program of Elevate, we've got a couple of campaigns. So the biggest one we've been talking about is around the data center transformation, so that's kind of the first campaign that we're working on together. The next one is around moving JD Edwards specific applications to Oracle's Cloud. And then the third one is around our analytics offering that Deloitte has and how we're going to market through to general put that in as well. Those are our three major campaigns. >> So data center transformation we hit it pretty hard. I'm sorry the third one was Cloud-- >> Analytics. >> Sorry analytics right okay which is kind of an instate that everybody wants to get to. The JDE migration, so you've got what, situations where people have just, the systems. >> And I would say it's actually more of a JDE modernization, alright? >> Okay. >> So you have an organization, right? They may have a JDE or JD Edwards instance that's really it's older, they're maybe on version nine or something like that, they don't want to go all the way to SaaS 'cause they can't simplify the business processes. They need to do that, but they also want to take advantage of the higher level capabilities of Cloud computing, right? IOT, Mobil, et cetera right? So as a modernization, one of the things we're doing is an approach together we work with customers depending where they're going and go hey great, you can actually modernize by taking up this version of JDE through an upgrade process, but that allows you then to move it over to Oracle Cloud infrastructure, which allows you to actually tap into all those platform services, the IOT and stuff like that to take to the next level. Then you can actually do the higher level analytics that sits on top of that. So it's really a journey where the customer wants to get. There's a various kind of four major phases that we can do or entry points with the customer on the JDE modernization, we kind of work them through. So that's a skill of some of the capabilities that Deloitte has as a deep JDE, and as well as Oracle Consulting, and we actually are going to market that together, matter of fact, we're even at conferences together, talking about our approaches here and our future. >> Okay. So that'll allow you to get to a Cloud PaaS layer that'll allow you to sort of modernize that and get out of the sort of technical debt that's built up. >> Where customers are not ready to maybe move their entire data center, right? This gets them on the journey, right? That's the important pieces. We want to get them on the Cloud journey. >> In the analytics campaign, so it seems to me that a lot of companies don't have their data driven, they want to be data driven, but they're not there yet. And so, their data's in silos and so I would imagine that that's all helping them understand where the data is, breaking down, busting down those silos and then actually putting in sort of an analytics approach that drives their, drives us from data to insights. Is that fair? >> Yeah fair. Yeah it's not just doing reporting and dashboards it's actually having KPI-driven insights into their information and their data within their organizations. And so Deloitte has some pre-configured applications for HR, finance, and supply chains. >> So the existing EDW for example would be fitter into that, but then you've got agile infrastructure and processes that you're putting in place, bringing in AI and machine intelligence. That's kind of the future state that you're in. >> And it also has, they look at the particular that's one of the things we like about the other stuff that Deloitte has done. They've actually done the investment of the processes back into those particular business units that they do and actually have KPI-driven ones it prebuilt configurations that actually adds value. These are the metrics that should be driving an HR organization. Here's the metrics that should be driving finance. So rather than doing better analytics, hey help me write my report better. No, we're going to help you transform the way you should be running your business from a business financial transformation, that's why the partnership with Deloitte. So it's really changing the game of true analytics, not better BI. >> Right okay, guys, two power houses. Thanks so much for explaining in The Cube and to our audience, appreciate it. (mumbling) >> Alright, thank you everybody for watching we'll be right back with our next guest you're watching The Cube, from Chicago. We'll be right back right after the short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello everyone. I'm John Furrier here in Palo Alto at our CUBE headquarters. We're here with John Del Santo, Senior Managing Director at Accenture for a Cube Conversation. John, welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> Thanks, John. Great to be here. >> So we just talked before we came on camera about Accenture and all the stuff you guys are doing. You guys are in the cloud heavily. We've been following, you guys have probably one of the most comprehensive analytics teams out there. And global SI market and just, the world's changing. So it's pretty fun. I'm looking forward to this conversation. So I got to ask you first, before we get started. I want to jump in with a ton of questions. What is your role at Accenture? You're in the Bay Area. Take a minute to explain what you do for Accenture and what's your territory. >> I've got the best job at Accenture. So, Accenture's got close to half a million people right now and my job is, I'm responsible for our business on the West Coast, across all of our industries, et cetera. I've been here 32 years, so I've seen a lot of things happen in the Bay Area. And I now have the responsibility of making sure that we're doing great work for our clients. And we're doing great work in the community. And then we're providing great opportunities to the thousands of people that work for us here in the Bay Area and across the West Coast. So it's a lot of fun. >> Obviously, West Coast is booming. And for tech it's been a hotbed. And obviously the industry's across the board now is global. I got to ask you because, you know, you've been around multiple waves of innovation. And Accenture's been, had their hands in enabling a lot of value creation for clients. You guys have a great reputation. There's a lot of smart people. But the waves are always kind of different in their own way, but sometimes it's the same. What's different about the way we're living now? Because you can almost look back and see the major inflection points. Obviously the PC revolution, client server, interoperability, networking stacks went standard. Then you saw the Internet come. Now you've got Web 2.0. And now you got the whole global, you got things like cryptocurrency and blockchain. You have multiple clouds. You have a whole new game-changing dynamic going on with IT infrastructure combined with opensource at a whole 'nother level. So how is this wave different? Is it like the, how would you compare? >> Well, I think all the technologies that have waved through my career, at least, have been real enablers for the business model that the companies had at the time, and that they evolved. What we see now is epic disruption, right? So, the waves now are, we have digital native companies that are just disrupting the heck out of the industry or the company that we're trying to help. And so it's now about pulling all of those technologies together, and really figuring out a new business model for a client. Figuring out a new distribution channel, a new product that's maybe natively digital. And so it's very, very different, I feel, then it was five, 10, 15, 20 years ago, through some of the other waves. >> Talk about the things going on in the Bay Area before we get more in the global themes, because I think the Bay Area is always kind of a leading indicator. I call it a bellwether. Some cool things happened. You've got things like the Golden State Warriors got a stadium that's being built. I'm watching the World Series with the Red Sox, and you see Amazon stat cast, you're seeing overlays, you're seeing rosserial. All these things are changing the work and play. The Bay Area's got a lot of leading indicators. What are some of the projects that you've been involved in? What's happening now that you think is worth noting, that's exciting, that piques your interest? >> Yeah, I mean, we work across every industry, and we do a ton of work in tech, but I actually find some of the more interesting projects are the ones we're doing for healthcare companies in the Bay Area, some of the utilities in the Bay Area, some of the big resource companies, some of the financial services institutions, 'cause, like I said before, all of those industries have disruption coming or have been disrupted, and so we're doing some work right now around patient services in healthcare and in pharma that is really interesting. It's meant to change the experience that a patient has, that you and I have when we interact with our healthcare providers or, you know, the whole industry. And so those kinds of projects are real interesting cause a lot of these industries are old and sort of have a big legacy estate and model that they need to transform from. So they need to move fast, and we kind of describe it as a wise pivot. They sort of need to move, but they need to make sure they're moving at the right time. They can't hurt their existing business, but they got to pivot to the next business model, and that's happening in lots of places. And you're right, I think it is happening a lot in the Bay Area and the West Coast as sort of a bellwether. >> I want to get your thoughts on some of the moments that are going on in tech. You mentioned prior, before we came on camera, you worked for Apple in the old days. Tim Cook was just recently tweeting yesterday, and that tweet's going around, privacy. He was at this big GDPR conference. The role of regulatory now is changing some of the West Coast dynamics. Used to be kind of fast and loose West Coast, innovate, and then it gets operationalized globally with tech, tech trends. What's the tech enablers now that you see that are involved that actually have to deal with regulatory, and is regulatory an opportunity? You're mentioning utilities, finance, those are two areas you can jump out and say okay, we see something there. Privacy is another one. So you have a perfect storm with tech and regulatory frameworks. How has that impacted your job in the West Coast? >> Well, I mean, GDBR, we live with everyday. And clearly we're doing a ton of work in Europe. And I think that's one of the advantages Accenture has of being a big global company, and being able to take lessons learned from other parts of the world that are likely to come to the United States, et cetera, so, but I think the combination of tech and regulatory are going to be merging together here pretty quickly, especially when you talk about AI and data privacy, and that sort of thing. But it's definitely been an evolution. Great to hear Tim's point of view on what Apple thinks. And it's been really fun in my life to see Apple in the 80s when I worked there. They were a client of mine in the 80s. I worked with NEXT Computing in the 90s. And then obviously they're a big partner of ours now, so it's been a really interesting evolution. >> What are some of the growth accomplishments you guys have in the Bay Area? Obviously there's been growth here for you guys. Obviously, we've been seeing it. >> Well, I think the amount of tech-driven disruption, or digital transformation, we call it, is growing like crazy. So, you know, 20 years ago we were doing a lot of eCommerce work. We kind of shied away from doing Y2K work and a lot of our competitors saw that as a big opportunity. We didn't think it was a lot of value for our clients, fixing the old systems. And so we pivoted to eCommerce in a very aggressive way. And I would say now that's evolved even further, where more than close to 2/3 of our business here on the West Coast is what we call the new, which is clouds, security, digital analytics. And I really think it gets down to, we were talking a little bit earlier, about the data. And so we have more data scientists than we've ever had. We're probably hiring one or two every day out here on the West Coast. And it's about the data. Data is driving our consulting business. It's driving our technology business. It's driving what we're doing with AI, obviously, and things like that, so. The transformation's been pretty tremendous. >> So take a minute to explain the difference (mumbles), data, you mentioned a lot of things, you got data in there, you got cloud, and you mentioned earlier you got kind of cloud first companies, got born in the cloud, born in AI, AI first, data first, these new companies that are essentially disrupting incumbents, also your clients, that are kind of born before the cloud. And they got to transform. Is digital transformation one of those things or both of those things? How does digital transformation translate to the clients that you guys work with? >> Well, every client has a unique set of needs depending on where they came from. We do a lot of work with the digital natives. We do a lot of work with the unicorns out here on the West Coast. And their needs are different. You know, they need to learn how to scale globally. They need help in the back office. They need help sort of maturing their business model. We do a lot of work with legacy financial services companies, healthcare companies, that sort of thing. They need to figure out how to sort of, you know, pivot to digital products or digital interactions with their customers. We have a very large business now in Accenture Interactive around helping to find customer experiences for clients. And we think our mission is sort of help our clients really redefine that relationship with their customer, their supplier, their supply chain, and the experience is a key part of that. Given expectations means a lot. >> We have a lot of CUBE Conversations around IT transformation as well. And I had a CIO, big time firm, we won't say the name cause it'll out em, but he said, "We've been outsourcing IT for so many years, but now we got to build the core competency internally because now it's a competitive advantage." And they have to ramp up pretty quickly. Cloud helps them there, and they need partners that can help them move the needle on the top line. That this is not just cost control and operational scale or whether it's horizontally scalable scale-out or whatnot. Top line revenue. This is where the bread and butter of the companies are. >> Right. >> So how are you guys engaging with the clients? Give some examples of how you're helping them with the digital transition to drive their business, how do you engage them? Do you do the standard sales calls engagements? You bring them to a technology center? As the world starts to change, how do you guys help those clients meet those top lines? >> Well, a perfect client for us, you know, we're really good at helping clients cut costs and get really efficient and be good with their peers on cost structure. We love a client where they want us to help em with that and they want to pivot the savings to the new part. The way, one of the things that triggered a thought when you mentioned that was we like to bring our clients into our innovation hubs, so we've had labs here on the West Coast for a long time. We now have 10 innovation hubs in the U.S. We have a very large one in San Francisco now, and so we'll bring a client into our innovation hub and really roll up our sleeves with the client and over a week or two weeks or three period of time, we really brainstorm on envisioning their future for their company, build a minimal viable product if we have to out of our rapid prototyping capability and really envision what the target and state of their business could be, of their product could be or their customer interaction and we'll model it. Rather than sort of do a study, do another study, do a PowerPoint presentation, it's let's roll up our sleeves and figure out how to really pivot your business to the new and then take it from there. >> And they come to your location Absolutely. >> For an extended period of time? >> Yeah, so we'll have, any given day we'll have at least two different clients in our location doing either a couple a day workshop, a multi-week workshop, and it's co-creation. It's us collaborating with our client to figure out a solution. A good example is we had one of our large clients from the West Coast in there recently and we were trying to figure out how to use drone technology to drive analytics in, you know, over a geography to provide better data for them to minimize risk. And we've got a number of co-creation projects now going on with them to figure out how do we take that into a solution that not only helps their business but maybe it is a commercially available system. >> Yeah, our Wikibon research team brings us all the time with IOT and security you're starting to see companies leverage their existing assets, which is physical as well as digital and then figure out a model that makes them work together because these new use cases are springing up. So what if some of those use cases that you guys see happening, because you mentioned drones, cause that's an IOT device, right, essentially. There's all these new scenarios that are emerging and the speed is critical. It's not like, you can't do a study. There's no time to do a study. There's no time to do these things. You got to get some feet on the ground. You got to have product in market, you got to iterate. This is devops culture. >> Right. >> What is an example? >> So we did a project for a big ag company and not actually a West Coast based company but they came to our labs to look at it. And basically what we did was, we covered an area that's basically the size of Delaware in terms of drone video and we were able to drive analytics from that and ten times faster figure out for them where the forest was weak and where it wasn't. where they ought to worry about vegetation, where they might have disease issues or other risks that were facing them. And those analytics we were able to drive a lot faster and so rather than manually going around this huge square mile set of geography, they were able to sort of do it through technology a lot faster. >> Yeah, just a side note. I was talking to Paul Daugherty and interviewed him. We were celebrating, covering the celebration, your 30th anniversary of your labs. And one of the interviews I did was a wacky idea which made total sense, was during like a car accident or scene where there's been a car accident, they send drones in first and they map out the forensics- >> Sure. >> First. And you think, okay, who would have thought of that? I mean, these are new things that are happening that are changing the game on the road because they'll open up faster. They get the data that they need. They don't have to spend all that physical time laying things out. This is not just a one-off, this is like in every industry. Is there an industry that's hotter than another for you guys? (mumbles) oil and gas, utilities, financial services is kind of the big ones. What are some of the hot areas that you guys see the most activity on, on this kind of new way of taking existing industries and transforming them? >> I don't know if I could pinpoint an industry, I really don't. I mean, because I see what we're trying to do with anti-money laundering and banking is really moving the ball forward. What we're doing with patient services and pharma in health care is pretty aggressive. Even some of the things that we're doing for some of the states and governments around citizen services to make sure that ... Cause all of us have expectations now on how we want to interact with government and our expectations are not being met in just about every department, right? So we're doing a lot of work with states around how to provide a better experience to citizens. So I don't know if I could pinpoint an actual industry. One of the fun ones that we just, that we're involved with our here in our patch is one of the big gaming companies in Vegas. We are doing a lot of video analytics and technology and again, it's something like 20 times faster being able to detect fraud, being able to figure out what's going on on a gaming table and how to provide rewards quicker to their customers, keep em at the table faster or longer- >> He's got to nice stack of chips. Oh, he's going down. (laughs) Give him a comp through, he's feeling down. Look at his facial expression. I can (mumbles) imagine, I mean, this is the thing. I would agree. I think this every vertical we see is being disrupted. Just mentioned public sectors. Interesting. We were riffing at an Amazon event one time around who decides with the self-driving cars? These towns and cities don't have the budget or the bandwidth to figure out and reimagine the public services that they have, they're offering the citizens. The consumerization of IT hits the public sector. >> For sure. >> And they need help. So again every industry is going on. Okay, well I want to step back and get some time in for analytics because you guys have been investing as a company heavily in analytics in the past 10 years. Past, I think, seven years, you guys have been really, really ramping up the investment on data science, analytics. Give us an update on that. How is that going? How's that changed? And what's the update today? >> Yeah, and it's a good point. I mean, and again, you mentioned those labs being here for 30 years. A lot of our data scientists and big machine learning and big data folks frankly started at the labs here years and years ago and so, we've now got one of the largest analytics capabilities, I think, of any services company globally. We called it applied intelligence. It's a combination of our analytics capability and artificial intelligence, and we basically have an analytics capability that's built into all the different services that we provide. So we think it's, everything's about analytics just about. I mean, clearly you can't do a consulting project unless you've really got a unique analytical point of view and unique data around assessing a client's problem. You really can't really do a project or implement a system without a heavy data influence. So we are adding, frankly, I think every day I'm approving more analytics head count into our team on the West Coast in lots of different practices. And so it disbands industries, it spans all the platform sets, that sort of thing, but we're the largest of most of the big data players. >> I think one of the consistent trends with AI, which is now being the word artificial intelligence, AI, is kind of encapsulated the whole big data world because big data's now AI is the implementation of it. You're seeing everything from fraud. You mentioned anti-money laundering, know your customer, these kind of dynamics. But you get the whole dark web phenomenon going out there with fraud. All kinds of underground economies going on. So AI is a real value driver across all industries around one, understanding what's happening, >> Sure. >> And then how to figure out how to applications development could be smarter. >> Right. >> This is kind of relatively new concept for these scale out applications, which is what businesses do. So how is that going? Any color commentary on the impact of AI specifically around how companies are operationally changing and re-imagining their businesses? >> Well, I think it's very early days for most of our clients, most big companies. I think, we've done some recent surveys that say something like 78% of our clients believe that AI's really, really important and they're not at all prepared to deal with or apply it to their business. So I think it's relatively early days. There's a huge fight for skills, so we're building our team and that sort of thing. We're also classic Accenture. We grow skills pretty well too through both on-the-job training and real training. And so I think we're seeing sort of baby steps with AI. There's a lot of great vended solutions out there that we're able to apply to business problems as well. But I think we're in relatively early days. >> It's almost as if, you know, the old black-box garbage in, garbage out. You have good data, >> Exactly. >> and you got to understand data differently, and I think what I'm seeing is a lot of data architects going on, figuring out how do we take the role of data and put it in a position to be successful. It's kind of like, cause then you use AI and you go, that's great, but what about, oh, we missed this data set. >> Right. >> You'll have fully exposed data sets, so this is all new dynamics. >> So you have to iterate through it and you'll have to (mumble) solutions that'll start and restart. >> All right, so final question for you. Talk about this technology hubs again. So you have the labs, get that. So how many hubs do you have, technology hubs? >> Well, in the U.S., there's 10. But I would say in the West Coast it's really San Francisco and Seattle right now, with San Francisco being our flagship and frankly it's a flagship in the U.S. We've had the 30 year presence of our labs here on the West Coast and we've had design studios on the West Coast. We've had our what we call liquid studios, which is a big rapid prototyping sort of capability. We've had our research, et cetera. We've pulled all of those locations, so our lab started in Palo Alto, went to San Jose and is now in San Francisco. We've pulled all those locations together into what we're calling the innovation hub for the West Coast and it's a five-story marquee building in San Francisco and it's where we bring our clients and we expect to have literally, I think last year we had 200 and something client workshops and co-creation sessions there. This year we think the number's going to go to 400 and so it's really becoming a fabric of all our practices. >> How important is the co-creation, because you have a physical presence here and it's the flagship for the innovation hub and it's an accumulation of a lot of work you guys have done across multiple things you've done. Labs, liquid labs, all that stuff coming together. How important is the co-creation part as a mechanism for fostering collaboration with your clients? Co-creation's certainly hot. Your thoughts on co-creation. >> Great question, and I would tell you Accenture's kind of gone through waves as technology's gone through waves and so we were always an enabler for a client's projects and we did a lot of project work. I think we're in a wave now where we're going to be the innovation partner. We continue to sort of be named the innovation partner or the digital partner for certain clients. And we're going to do that through co-creating with them, and it's not just at their site, et cetera. It's going to be co-creation in our labs where we're taking advantage of the hundreds of data scientists and computer researchers and technical architects that we have in our labs to create something that's new and fresh and purpose-built for their particular business model. So we think co-creation is a huge part of the formula for us being successful with our clients over the next 10 years. And so that's why we've put this infrastructure in place, expect it to expand and to be sold out and that sort of thing. But it's a good way for us to build capability and really, really viable solutions for our clients going forward. >> So it's not just a sales development initiative. It's an operationalized engagement and delivery mechanism for you guys. >> Exactly, exactly. It's not, I mean it has, it self markets but it's not about marketing. It's about, we'll have tours and we'll have a little tourism through our center and so clients'll say, Wait, look at that maker lab. Look what you're doing with that client. I want one of those, right? I need to do that in my business, even though I'm in a different industry. So it's not really a marketing tool per se, it's a way for us to interact and engage with our clients. >> Well, it's a showcase in the sense of where you can showcase what you have and if clients see value, they can go to the next step. It's an accelerated path to outcomes re-imagining businesses. Okay, final question. What have you learned from all this? Because now you guys have a state of the art engagement model, delivery model, around cloud, all these things coming together, perfect storm for what you guys do. As you guys look back and see what you've built and where it's going to go, what are the key learnings that you guys came out of the West Coast team around pulling it all together over the years? What's the key learnings? >> Well, I think that our clientele is just thirsty for innovation and innovation now. It's now about sort of let's envision the future and we'll get to it some other day. It's what can we do right now and what journey, what glide path are we on to change our business? So the pace is just radically different than it used to be. And so it's about changing, rapidly changing, putting real innovation on it, and collaborating with clients in a pace that we've never seen before. I mean, I've been here 32 years and I've just never the pace of change. >> That's great, John. So (mumbles), really appreciate it. We'll get a quick plug in. What's coming up for you guys? What's going on in the West Coast? What's happening? >> Well, we're in event season right now, so we just finished all the ... We're wrapping up Oracle Open World. We just won five awards at Oracle Open World. We just did an acquisition on the West Coast to beef up our Oracle capabilities. We've got ReInvent and we have all kinds of events coming up but it's a, it's been a pretty busy season. >> So cloud and data have certainly helped rise the tide for your business. >> 100%. I mean, cloud is taking Accenture from kind of in the back of the office and put us into the front office over the last 10 years. >> Well, certainly it's awesome, (mumbles), leveling the playing field, allowing companies to scale out very rapidly, bringing a devops culture, new kinds of modern application developments, real value being created, super exciting time. Thanks for coming in and sharing your time. John Del Santo here in theCube for Cube Conversation, senior managing director at Accenture. I'm John Furrier here in theCube studios for Cube Conversation. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering RSA North America 2018. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at the RSA conference in San Francisco 40,000 plus people talking about security, gets bigger and bigger every year. Soon it's going to eclipse Oracle Open World and Sales Force to be the biggest conference in all of San Francisco. But we've got somebody who's been coming here he said for 16 years, Ricardo Villidiego, the EDP and GM Security and Fraud for Cyxtera. Did I get that right, Cyxtera? >> Cyxtera. >> Jeff: Cyxtera Technologies, great to see you. >> Thank you Jeff, it's glad to be here. >> So you said you've been coming here for 16 years. How has it changed? >> Yeah, that's exactly right. You know it's becoming bigger, and bigger, and bigger I believe this is a representation of the size of the prowling out there. >> But are we getting better at it, or is it just the tax service is getting better? Why are there so many, why is it getting bigger and bigger? Are we going to get this thing solved or? >> I think it is that combination within we have the unique solution that is going to help significantly organizations to get better in the security landscape I think the issue that we have is there's just so many now use in general and I think that now is a representation of the disconnection that exists between the way technologies are deploying security and the way technologies are consuming IT. I think IT is completely, has a evolved significantly and is completely hybrid today and organizations are continuing to deploy security in a way like if we were in the 90s. >> Right. >> And that's the biggest connection that exists between the attacks and the protection. >> But in the 90s we still like, or you can correct me, and we can actually build some big brick walls and a moat and a couple crocodiles and we can keep the bad guys out. That's not the way anymore. >> It is not a way. And look, I believe we're up there every protection creates a reaction on the adversary. And that is absolutely true in security and it is absolutely true in the fraud landscape. Every protection measure will push the adversary to innovate and that innovation is what, for good and for bad, has created this big market which we can't complain. >> Right, right. So for folks that aren't familiar with Cyxtera give them the quick update on what you guys are all about. >> So see, I think Cyxtera is here to conquer the cyber security space. I think what we did is we put together technologies from the companies that we acquire. >> Right. >> With a combination of the call center facilities that we also acquired from Centurylink to build this vision of the secure infrastructure company and what we're launching here at the RSA conference 2018 is AppGate 4.0 which is the flagship offering around secure access. Secure access is that anchor up on which organizations can deploy a secure way to enable their workforce and their party relationships to get access the critical assets within the network in a secure way. >> Okay, and you said 4.0 so that implies that there was a three and a two and probably a one. >> Actually you're right. >> So what are some of the new things in 4.0? >> Well, it's great it gives it an evolution of the current platform we lounge what we call life entitlements which is an innovative concept upon which we can dynamically adjust the permitter of an an end point. And the user that is behind that end point. I think, you know, a permitter that's today doesn't exist as they were in the 90s. >> Right, right. >> That concept of a unique permitter that is protected by the firewall that is implemented by Enact Technology doesn't exist anymore. >> Right. >> Today is about agility, today is about mobility, today is about enabling the end user to securely access their... >> Their applications, >> The inevitable actions, >> They may need, right. >> And what AppGate does is exactly that. Is to identify what the security processor of the end point and the user behind the end point and deploy a security of one that's unique to the specific conditions of an end point and the user behind that end point when they're trying to access critical assets within the network. >> Okay, so if I heard you right, so instead of just a traditional wall it's a combination of identity, >> Ricardo: It's identity. >> The end point how their access is, and then the context within the application. >> That's exactly right. >> Oh, awesome so that's very significant change than probably when you started out years ago. >> Absolutely, and look Jeff, I think you know to some extent the way enterprises are deploying security is delusional. And I say that because there is a reality and it looks like we're ignoring ignoring the reality but the reality is the way organizations are consuming IT is totally different than what it was in the 90s and the early 2000s. >> Right. >> The way organizations are deploying security today doesn't match with the way they're consuming IT today. That's where AppGate SDP can breach that gap and enable organizations to deploy security strategies that match with the reality of IT obstacles today. >> Right. If they don't get it, they better get it quick 'cause else not, you know we see them in the Wall Street Journal tomorrow morning and that's not a happy place to be. >> Absolutely not, absolute not and we're trying to help them to stay aware of that. >> Right. Alright, Ricardo we'll have to leave it there we're crammed for time but thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day. >> Alright Jeff, thank you very much I love to be here. >> Alright. He's Ricardo I'm Jeff you're watching theCUBE from RSAC 2018 San Francisco. (upbeat music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey, hello everyone. Welcome back to day two of live coverage as theCUBE's exclusive analysis coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017. I'm John Furrier, co-host on set one with Stu Miniman here, analyst at Wikibon. And we got two sets here at Amazon re:Invent The first time we've done two sets, so much content. We have our directors' set with captains' chairs over there getting all the community content. And all the folks doing the innovation here at AWS. Stu, a lot to talk about. We've had companies come through, tell us about their innovation with AWS. But the bottom line is Andy Jassy's keynote just went off. I mean, he's like the energizer bunny. He keeps going and going and going. Announcement after announcement. I broke that Forbes story, laid out what ended up turning out to be the core messaging. Tons of stories on SiliconANGLE.com around Andy Jassy's exclusive interview that we had about a week and a half ago, prior to re:Invent. He's geared up. He's giddy up, as they say, his favorite word. He's taken on the competition. He took Oracle head on and called Oracle a company that abuses their customers. That was hard core, "abuse." He used the word, "abuse." In this culture, he could have just said, "predator." He's that kind of competitive vibe. Microsoft kind of called out Vinder 2 on the chart. Laying out the sets and services. Amazon putting the aggressive we're real stamp out there. What's your thoughts? You got the only analysis. >> So first of all John, this show is always impressive. One of the ones that I look forward to more than almost anything for the entire year. 43,000 people here. I spent the last day and a half in the analyst sessions. There wasn't a single analyst that was like, "Ho-hum." There are so many announcements. You go down the list and the number 73rd announcement on there, you're like, "I'm not sure." "There's this group of customers that's been waiting "for them and is going to transform their business. "It's potentially going to crush certain parts "of the industry." There's so much happening, there's lots of fanboys here. It's tough not to get exuberant about what's going on. Surprised to see Andy punching a little bit of competitors. Sure, he takes jabs at Larry Ellison every year. You know the red stack stuff, you know database. They're making huge piece on the migration. But talking a little bit more about Google and Microsoft, "Well they must be real competitors," a lot of people are saying, "if they're actually putting them up there, "going through the numbers," so many things we want to dig into here, and throughout the next two days. >> Yeah man, and the fact that he talks about the competitors means that it's still on his mind, although they're still full steam ahead. The thing about Jassy though, getting to know him, his style is not just talk, he walks it more than he talks. He'll only talk trash if he's got a solution in his back pocket. And what's different this year is, the bravado has gone up and the rhetoric around Oracle specifically has been really hard core. I mean he called them an abusive partner to their customers. That's a line in the sand. Those are fightin' words but then he goes on stage and essentially rolls out a series of database options. He spent a lot of time talking about databases, Stu, in his keynote. >> John, we got Aurora Serverless totally talking about, "How many companies, how many resources do you have focused "on managing the infrastructure under your database?" So, RDMS, paired with Serverless, absolutely game changer. People are super excited about it. There's so much going on. But I mean, John just take alone, the one thing they put up, it was one of the Gartner slides, and what's Amazon at now, 44% up from 39%? So there's talk about growth rates and everything like that. Amazon chugging along, dominant in their space, and so many pieces. >> That's the one critique I would give Jassy, the one thing I don't like about his keynote, and I don't like in general about Amazon is, they talk new guard, new guard, old guard is bad. They're using Gartner slides, too. I mean, you couldn't old guard then Gartner. Magic Quadrant has nothing to do with the presentation. It was infrastructures of service, didn't include platform as a service, didn't include SAS. I mean, they're using the wrong scoreboard. Now, I think he throws it up there because buyers kinda use Gartner as kind of a bellwether but they're not, they're old guard. He's got to get better stats and I'm pressuring them to get the stats. What is the scoreboard for cloud? >> Well, john, you know one of the things we always look at, there's two days of keynotes. Today is really the enterprise. Enterprise, Andy says, we're in kind of the early part of massive adoption from enterprise. He's talking enterprise-speak and yeah, they go to the Gartner Magic Quadrant, absolutely. John, what's happening in the software world? I mean, that's really where this is is the change of what's happening in the software. Amazon's at the vanguard. There was plenty of things that I'm sure developers will love here, but it wasn't the big focus of today's keynotes. >> To me, the canary in the coalmine is developers. The canary in the coalmine for the big mega trans are also venture capitalists. The canary in the coalmine of the startup entrepreneurs, those alpha entrepreneurs and last night we had a chance. I sat down multiple one on ones with some venture capitalists. We had some here on theCUBE, then we went to the Greylock, Amplify, and then IVP party and haD a chance to talk to some people. The general sentiment is this, we are in a sea change. It's like a tsunami. The whole beach is exposed before the big wave comes in, Stu. The top venture capitalists like Greylock and others, are looking at this going, "the models have changed." The funding model, the dynamics and everyone is going, "holy shit." That's where this renaissance in software development is happening and the top guys on the entrepreneurial side is saying, "the new way to do it is, "take less funding, I need to get in market fast "with a product, I need a partner that's gonna get me." The rest of the market is deer in the headlights, Stu. They're like, "wait a minute, do I compete with Amazon? "Do I partner with Amazon? "Which could do I use?" They get caught rearranging the deck chairs and they're taking their eye off the ball which is software. >> So john, the struggle I've been hearing, you know, you talked to a bunch of Amazon customers already this week. If you're in the enterprise and you're building your strategy, you got to write it on a whiteboard or an etch-a-sketch because things are changing so fast. The thing I was really looking forward to is what were they gonna be in cubernetties and you know, server list, huge promise, what are they delivering? What was the proof point? And I have to say, definitely impressed with what I saw so far. >> What's the top? I mean first of all, you're in the analyst meeting and I heard feedback from the analysts like, "we can't even comprehend all these things." I want you to boil it down for the folks not here and they're gonna be reading some blog posts and still getting a lot of coverage to go through certainly on theCube and SiliconANGLE will keep on. Bottom line, what's the executive summary in your mind, Stu? What should people pay attention to? What's the most important story? >> It is impossible to give one story to everyone but let me start with, Andy lays out, in your interview for Forbes and what he talked about in the keynote, kind of a compute continuum so if you're just using compute instances, there are some new big ones. If you want your AI stuff, your big data, they've got new compute instances. The bare middle offering is basically the fruits of what they have to do to be able to get vmware on AWS to work and they're now making that same instance available for those that want to be able to do other things with it, bring their own hypervisor, things like that. I could tell you, it's a massive... It's like 72 logical cores, huge amounts of memory and it is gonna be wicked expensive because it's not like most of the instances with Amazon, pick between these six versions, it's one. Here's a server and it's a big server, it's gonna be really expensive. We're gonna be digging in with a couple of vmware executives on that piece but the newer stuff, containers. The last year we've been hearing, Amazon's behind on cubernetties, Amazon's behind on cubernetties. They joined the CNCF for a couple months. Now they have EKS so full supporting cubernetties but here's the nuance, I talked to the people that run that group and ECS is not going away. They're there, we've seen all the time is they say, "oh here's the standard and we're gonna fully embrace it, "but our proprietary's version." Cubernetties doesn't scale the way you need, you gotta do our thing. Cubernetties, we can't integrate it with all our services, you know use our services. Andy was like, "hey, we're gonna give you a choice." Underneath that they had farpoint, I'm sorry fargate. Fargate is the underlying level that basically allows me to take rather than, you know, managing at the server level which really I was managing virtualization before. Now I'm managing at the compute level. When containers came out and Docker was buzzing, it was, "this is the new atomic instance "of how we manage things." Fargate really cooled down at that lower level so you have (mumbles) I keep saying fargate at the bottom level, now I've got ECS or cubernetties and I've got things like istio on top of that. You and I are gonna be at the CNCF show next week, CubeCon and everything like that. I'm sure Amazon is gonna suck a lot of the air out of that with what they're doing and gosh, I haven't even talked about serverless yet. >> First of all I mean, it's hard to boil it down like you said. You can't even breathe at this point, it's so exciting but the thing that is a success at Amazon also could be an Achilles heel because it has complexity so I noticed in messaging was everything to everyone or is everything to everything. It's got this vibe going on... >> Stu: Everything is everything. >> Everything is everything. A lot of people have been criticizing the software business on the community side, supplier side of trying to be everything to everyone. But that's what Amazon's doing, right? They're basically saying, "we're gonna give you everything "but it's not mandated that you choose one." So talk about that dynamic because the people critiquing them and saying, "well they're just throwing all this stuff out there, "it's just a feature." Is it viable? >> It's a great point and right, if you look at traditional enterprise vendors, it was, "oh my god look at that catalog "and all these thousands and thousands of skews "that are out there." I believe the number I heard is in the Amazon services, there's like 30,000 services out there and how do you, as a company, manage that? I talked to one global web company and I gave that. How do you keep up with this? How do you know what to do? And he's like, "well, we reach a certain price point. "I've got two TAMs, they help us work through this." There's no way any one person or even any company could be an expert on this. That's where Amazon needs to get consultative. That's where SIs need to come in. I'll tee up, that's where serverless really comes in because there's certain pieces that, as Andy talked about in the keynote, you know lambda is going everywhere. It's getting integrated into the environment. There's certain pieces of the stack that before I needed to choose my compute instance. I needed to figure out how much memory. I have to do all of these kind of things. If I choose a certain layer of integration, Amazon is gonna take care of those things underneath so absolutely they hear loud and clear that they want to simplify things. What was it, last year light sale was one of the big announcements. There's so many things. Spot instances had a huge growth to be able to drive down costs this year. I mean, dozens and dozens of features that Andy talked about this morning. Serverless, John, really massive wave. (mumbles) >> Let's connect the dots. There's a lot to talk about, we've got Werner Vogles keynote tomorrow. That should be really geeky and tech under the hood, but what Jassy is putting out there is a lot of the stuff you're mentioning but also he's got a wireless camera for facial recognition, they've got transcribe recognition, poly, lex, so the sets of services that are new and new guard like and the use cases from this are interesting. A lot of different connective devices so you see a little IOG. They're kind of laying out like this is a landscape. You know, we're gonna do statcast for MLB, NFL. We got edge devices, databases for S3. The programming model, the new assembly model. It's very modular. This is like the building blocks approach. It's not just the lambda and S3. You've got wireless cameras that do facial recognition. >> Right, because John, I talked to a couple customers that are doing serverless and they're working with Amazon and it's like, "oh well, where do you think of serverless functions as a service?" And they're like, "well really I have you know..." One customer was like, "I have a bunch of my own services "and I have APIs I write and now I can just call into "various Amazon services so it makes..." John, the whole API economy that we've been talking about for many years, you know, this is really Amazon having this come to fruition. I should be able to write my own APIs that can program to many of Amazon's APIs. If Dave Vellante was here, I'm sure he'd be talking about API creep because there's so many pieces but you know, Amazon, Andy is saying, "we have everything of the best." I think a lot of he's trying to attack there. Many customers we've talked to, they're going multi-cloud. What does that really mean? It's Amazon the primary. When are they using Google, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM? There's so many pieces. >> Stu, it's impressive to me. I get called a fanboy all the time, but I just call it as I see it and Amazon is crushing everyone else, in my opinion. There's no doubt about it. When we get more data from Microsoft or Google, then we'll compare, you know, and Oracle. They're not even talking so like they're hiding. They're building again. The tsunami is coming. The war is here. No doubt there's a cloud war and Microsoft is in it to win it. Google's hardcore so this is game on. What Amazon is doing is they're integrating new kinds of interactivity. You start to see Twitch more here. You see the NFL demo on stage that Andy did. The actual data that they're getting from the sensors. They're integrating the application so you know Goldman Sachs never goes on stage and does a testimonial. The guy's basically giving a lovefest for Amazon. That's Goldman Sachs. So you have new software models that are coming. This is something I think nobody's seeing. I think you talk to hardcore dudes. The infrastructures now with serverless is enabling creativity and I think this renaissance is for real. >> John, you nailed something. It's Sandy Carter who you know and have had on theCUBE many times, joined Amazon within the last year, talked about how Amazon, not just AWS but Amazon, is helping customers with buzzword digital transformation but how do you innovate? It's not just Amazon Web Services, there's so many things that the broader Amazon portfolio can tie into, you know. Absolutely, it's impressive. Customers always said it used to be like, "oh how can I have a network that's kinda like Google's?" Now it's "how can I innovate like Amazon?" >> Well Stu, we go to all the shows. We didn't go to Oracle Open World this year. Again, they're kind of silent right now because they don't want to talk to the press because they're gearing up. You've got Oracle, Microsoft, certainly very aggressive, more aggressive than Oracle, but Jassy is laying the line in the sand so we're gonna watch the new guard old guard thing play out. Microsoft is absolutely moving the needle. They are coming up to Amazon. There's no doubt that they're in the sights, in the rearview mirror. I think everyone else is really gearing up. You've got Alibaba cloud in China coming to the US. This is going to be exciting. The cloud game has got so much action in it. It's got the geeky under the hood and the sexiness of the application, Stu. I'm really super excited. >> Yeah, there's just so much information, you know. Choose your category. Choose where you're going. There is just no shortage. Everybody is geeking out. The big complaint is like how there's too many people. If you go standby, you go an hour ahead of time and you're still there and it's spread out, you know. The Aria and the MGM, there's all these things there. We're here at the heart of what used to be the one facility and now it's just spread out so much so you really need to kind of choose your focus, dig on in, and you know, we've got so many interviews. >> Stu, we're gonna want to wrap this up by saying the company that's behind us, you can't see or maybe you're able to see in the shot that's winning that no one's talking about much because they're just winning is Intel. They sell more chips. They sell more compute. The compute game is where it's at. You've just Intel kind of quietly under the surface and this growth is only gonna help Moore's law and everything else. >> John, it's just like the old Intel inside, you know. Amazon does more. They're buying more compute, whether that's standard compute, it's containers, or serverless at the end of the day, there's some Intel chips underneath almost all of it today. >> Intel's not putting their strategy up but it's clear to me through observation and talking to them, is that they're targeting the cloud as that new inside moment. They want to power the top clouds. They already are. They're kinda quietly keeping their nose clean and have their head down and power all those clouds. TheCUBE here powering all the data here at AWS re:Invent. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. Day two kickoff, more great coverage. Stay with us, two sets here in Las Vegas. We'll be right back. (digital music)

(music) >> Hello and welcome to theCUBE, here in our studio in Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBEConversation; I'm John Furrier, the co-founder and co-CEO of SiliconANGLE Media, and co-host of theCUBE. Our next guest here is Surya Varanasi, who's the co-founder and CTO of Vexata, a hot startup here in Silicon Valley, also exhibiting this week at Oracle Open World in San Francisco. It's our 8th year of coverage at Oracle Open World, we will not be there on the ground with theCUBE; not a lot of room as they're doing a lot of reconstruction up there, among other events happening. Great, great conversations happening around the world of cloud, and certainly Big Data, now called 'data' generally because it's so hot. Sorry, welcome to the CUBEConversation. >> Thank you. >> So, first of all you guys are a hot new startup, really coming out of stealth, but not really stealth I mean stealth technically, not with general availability. You've been in business for a few years, building up great comprehensive storage-slash-data solution, I call it, with this "data fabric" concept. Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Well-funded team, super technical. Tell us about the company, tell us about the launch, you guys are out public at Oracle Open World this week. What is Vexata? >> Vexata, we started in 2014, as you mentioned, a few years in development. We've been in trials for over a year and a half, shipping actually for a good eight or nine months. And what we're about is, we really wanted to design against three basic pillars. The first one being, there's digital businesses, they're all under pressure. "How do we survive, and how do we handle the transactions that are coming in?" And we wanted to build the highest performance storage system that we could build that really accelerates your apps, makes them super fast. The second thing we want to do is, the demanding enterprises, these are the ones that have the requirements, we wanted to be super enterprise-resilient. How do we deploy seamlessly? That was the third pillar we stood on, meaning no changes to your application or your, how do we plugin and just simply work? So we simply work, we're enterprise-resilient, and we have the highest-performance system that accelerates your apps with no changes. We built around Flash, and Intel's latest 3D Optane, and that's a big deal. >> Well you guys are well-funded, looking at the management team of the company, it's a start-up that began a couple years now, but you're now out in the wild, now launching. Just a couple of stats here, over 50 million dollars in funding, well-funded, great with a lot of work on the front end with the product, but the venture capitalists are interesting. Lightspeed has been very, very successful in the enterprise, just look at the list of successful day value, even if they have Snapchat too, so they know a little bit about data. Mayfield, Intel Capital, and Redline, and International One. Really really good pedigree there, and they know storage too, they see you telling us, they know what it looks like, they understand converge investors they now get the data play. I have to ask you, in the market everyone's kind of scratching their heads right now because real time data is super important. What problem are you guys solving because certainly the performance >> Yeah >> Is looking good. What's the problem you solve for customers? >> So, the specific problem is when you have digital businesses, what happens is that you don't have a little bit of data that's hot and the rest that's cold, everything is hot, so how do you serve all your data in real time? That's what we're about, and that's what we've built a transformative solution for. >> Well the thing that's coming out, some of the feedback we've been getting and seeing online is, besides the new logo, looks great by the way >> Thank you >> Is you guys are winning on the speeds and feeds. Now the market's going beyond speeds and feeds, which we'll get to in a second, so one: talk about the performance goals, you guys are saying exponential performance, but you're saying you're 10x the performance of anything else. But two, the challenge with data is these silos, right, and you're seeing a confluence of injection of open-source coding, real-time performance data in the application level as app developers start to come on board with open source. At the same time, data traditionally has not been open and free, democratized, if you will, that it's stuck in silos. So it's been a big challenge for architects and CXOs to say, "How do we deploy a solution that gets us to value quickly, not do these science projects." So talk about the performance and then the market model around "How do you free the data?". >> Yeah, so I think for us the simplest of value props is when you plug into your existing infrastructure, we show up to any OS just like a disc. We show up very simply like a disc, so any application that runs with Vexata powering the disc, the virtual disc, if you will, runs enormously fast. That's the very simple value prop, we've done something very basic. >> So on the integration site, like deploying it's easy. >> Not only is it easy, there's no change to the OS. So you talk about democratization, what are you looking for? Can I simply plug and play, will this just work? So that's the biggest thing of all, it just works. The second piece, and the most important thing is, it's not just out here our numbers that really work well, when you plug in Oracle and run OLTP or OLAP, you see this dramatic performance that if you didn't know better, you'd think this was an engineered system from Oracle, you know it's really just amazing performance. We maximize the utilization of your server, so any app that just plugs into an OS and looks at it as a disc will run great. >> Well when you say that, not to trivialize this, because I know it's probably complicated, I'm going to dig into the tech in a second, but when I plug in a thumb drive or an external hard drive into my Mac, it's just "Boom there it is!" >> Yeah. >> Similar, is that the kind of concept you guys are thinking? >> Pretty much, that's what we, really if you build a very complicated product that's complicated to use, nobody'd use it. So we want it really simple to consume. Complicated to build maybe, but really simple to consume. >> Alright so I'm going to play the naysayer, I don't believe you guys, it's smoke and mirrors in there, Cause no one can do that, you're going to give me 10x performance? Okay, that's marketing, I'm skeptical, but I have a problem. I have I/O bottlenecks, at the end of the day I have all these bottlenecks, how do you do it? >> You know, I think a few core principles, the first of them being we use solid state media. How we read and write to that solid state media is actually under patent, it's very specific to keep the performance very high all the time. The second piece of course is our system itself is designed to avoid, to separate control and data paths, so we keep them isolated, and we've invested a lot in our software to keep it and use the space and so on, a lot of jargon for we keep our latencies extremely low on the system, so your applications don't have to worry about anything and change anything. >> So are you lower in the stack in terms of, well a stack isn't perfectly speaking but, I start thinking about free data moving around, which by the way, people want, they want their data available at any given time, at any moment, cause you don't know what's going on in real time. All the data has got to be ready. But then it brings up the governance thing. Are you below the governance or is that a separate challenge on top, how do you deal with that dynamic? >> I'd say we're in the governance of it, so you know for example we provide the full standard based encryption so should anybody say, "Hey are you secure?" Yes, absolutely we are. It's a big deal, it's data, it's your active data, and so we protect it as well. >> One of the things that's coming out of Oracle Open World we're seeing obviously is they're comparing themselves to Amazon. And I was commenting last night on Twitter, I've been covering Oracle since 1994, watching and comparing them against SAP back then, the ERP days, and all the software mini computer days. But now they're comparing themselves not to SAP or IBM anymore, it's Amazon. What does that tell you, because that's also translating into the customer conversations because cloud has become mainstage, Oracle says "We have the cloud, it's Oracle on Oracle." They're not really winning the Cloud Native battles, they kind of own IT, Oracle does, so there's really no debate that IT, information technology CIOs know all about Oracle, but people who are doing Cloud-Native or DevOps might not be interested in Oracle, so how do you balance those two markets that, Oracle's trying to be more Cloud-Native and we're still evaluating their progress there, but you guys, are you impacted by those trends at all? >> You know, as you mentioned, everybody talks about the cloud, a lot of apps do go to the Native Cloud, if you will, the data that's very critical to your business, be it your intensive transaction processing, your OLAP, your machine learning, those seem to remain on premise. That's what our experience has been, and that's where we want to play first. Now, Oracle for Oracle Cloud, Oracle Cloud for Oracle may be a great thing, but-- >> Oracle on Oracle runs well, but I mean they're still playing catch up to Amazon, clearly number one. Okay let's get, you bring up the on-prem thing, this is important, business model. So you guys are out there, share the business model for you guys. What's on premise, is it hardware, software, both? Is there license, how do people engage with you, what's your business? >> So today we sell an appliance, that's the product we have today, and so we sell the appliance all included, software and hardware, and we offer the services to plug it in, and show you the transformative results on your applications. We don't stop at "Hey we plugged it in and you got your hero numbers," we show you. >> So I'm, I just want to buy it, how do I engage? I buy a license? A box? >> You buy the system. >> System, so it's hardware. >> Yeah >> And all the software and the intellectual property that you have >> All in. >> Is inside the box. And how do I, just connect to the network? >> Pretty much. >> Like, all interfaces? >> Pretty much; so today we have fiber channel, and we have NVMe over Fabric, so both ethernet and fabric channel, this is typically where you're on your highest performance of your data. So for us, very simple, it's very seamless to plug it in, and it'll be recognized in your servers, and off you go. >> Okay, so I'm an architect at a large enterprise, take me through the conversation you'd have with those geeks because they're going to want to (Surya laughs) have the conversation be, I want it, I need dashboarding, we're going to be moving high value applications so I need analytics, I want to kill the memory bottlenecks, but I also want the future, I don't want to foreclose anything so, you know, you guys are a startup so you've got my attention, I like what your story is. How do we move forward in the future, how do you talk through the, we've got your back covered, you've got the head room available, how does an IT or tech guy say, "You guys are solid."? >> Yeah. So here's how I start the conversation: I typically start the conversation by telling them, "Hey, you've got the highest performance servers, the latest servers, the Broadwells, the Prolines, what have you. The fastest networks are the 100 GigE, 50 GigE, you know whatever your ethernet network looks like, and then typically you have a SAN and it's really fast- 1630 to a gig. And you run your application, let's pretend it's Oracle RAC, you run that application. And when you run it, what you notice in your servers is eventually you see I/O wait times that slow down your application, and your servers, your really fast servers are under utilized because they're just not moving. >> Because you have bottlenecks. >> That's right. Well we say, it's very simple, if you plug us into your network and run your application on us, we will eliminate your I/O bottlenecks on your server, so your server is maximally utilized. So with no changes for you, you get 10x, and that's how easy we want to make it. That's really our value. >> So you guys are coming in and basically saying 10x performance right out of the gate. >> Yeah. >> Okay so what are some of the challenges on the dynamics, because you got my attention again, now I say, "How do I know I need you? Is there certain things, smoke before the thing blows up?" What are some of the tell signs for the customers to call you guys, cause they just started hearing about you guys as you start marketing. Why should customers work with you, what's the indicators on their side where they go, "I got to call them." >> The classic indicator is, for us, for one is, you're running an Oracle RAC. You're running an Oracle RAC for resiliency and for performance and you need both, right? The moment we see that we say, okay, we have a clean in. The second tell-tale sign, is when you have in-memory databases running. When you're in-memory, what you're trying to do is not write to your storage because that's your bottleneck, so you keep throwing memory at it, it's really expensive. And we know that's a classic sign. >> Okay, talk about Oracle Open World, you're going to be here this week, up in the city. What are you guys showing, what's the pitch, obviously you've got the new logo. >> Oh yeah. >> @VexataCorp is the Twitter handle so people can watch and can check out your updates on Twitter, but what's the value proposition, what are people in the booth talking about, what's the demos, what's the thing? >> You know, it's Oracle Open World, so we're going to do a whole lot of Oracle demos, so we have a RAC demo set up, and we show, with a four node, dual socket server, our system seamlessly plug in, and you get, the last I looked, it was 4,000,000+ OLTP transactions. It's phenomenal for a four socket, dual socket server. We're going to show our optane base array, the first of its kind in the industry, and show the same kind of results we have with optane. So it's all about Oracle and accelerating those apps. >> Alright so for Oracle customers out there, you know who you are, they're always evaluating stuff but it's always hard to kind of get out on the branch and be exposed if you try to go off Oracle, so people might be a little bit nervous. What's your conversation to the Oracle customers that's saying there's no risk in looking at Vexata. They're like, hey why not just buy a lot more Exadata, or the ZDLRA stuff, or other things that they have. >> And all those are entirely possible, I think that's the easiest way to get comfort. It's those trials, even in your research and development, and get used to us, because you'll be shocked at the performance you get. And eventually yeah, you can go to Exadata, but we're just so much more cost-effective than any solution out there. Try us, get comfortable with us, and then deploy when you're ready. >> And what's the price point? What's the price, or is it different by deployment? >> You know, honestly, it does differ by deployment, but really we use standard NVMe flash, and that's driven by the HyperScale guys, so we ride the curve of flash, we don't make our own. >> Yeah, you're not a sales guy, you're a CTO, co-founder, >> Thank you. >> So I don't want to put you on the spot there. Affordability relative to Oracle, let's talk about the customer conversation, so I don't want to put you on the spot on the pricing, we'll hit the CEO and some of your other guys on that. So, I'm a customer, I'll roleplay. Hey, I love this opportunity, but what's wrong with Oracle storage, why not just go with those guys? >> You can use us, not just for Oracle, but all your application workloads that are demanding, like your machine learning, like your SQL server, if you're running SAS analytics, so you have a general purpose platform, you're not silo'd. That's the biggest deal with us. >> So you give them scope outside of Oracle. >> That's right. Any app, really, I mean, just the simplest of all. >> Alright so I got to ask you the secret sauce question. You've got some patents, so your friend says, "Hey, what's going on, you guys are awesome, how did you get the 10x?" What's the bottom line, how did you guys do it? How do you get all that performance? >> I think the really, the investment in the software, to reduce the storage stack latencies, to the absolute minimum, that's what really gives us the biggest bang for the buck. >> So a lot of low-level engineering. >> Pretty much. >> Alright, so benefits to customers? What are the benefits, how do you guys see the benefits unfolding, take us through some of the anecdotal data you've seen in the trials you've done with customers, what are some of the benefits they've told you they've seen? >> You know, the simplest of them all, it's a very simple one, when we do a PoC with a customer, the customer usually says, "Hey this PoC's going to take two months." And afterward we find out it's two months because it takes three weeks to tune the system, and then the remainder of the weeks to do the PoC. For us, those first three weeks collapsed to one day. There's no tuning, you just plug it in and you all of a sudden get the performance and your PoC has just shrunken massively. That's really our value. Don't try hard, just right to your data, embrace it and it'll run for you. >> So you guys are a potential bridge to the future with the data. >> Yeah. >> You have this thing called Active Data Fabric, is that it? >> Yes. >> What is that about? >> It's really about how you actually scale your data over a very large amount. Today, yes we have an appliance, and it scales on size, ours scales to 150 terabytes and so on, but as data keeps growing and everything becomes hot, you really need to get into the many hundreds of terabytes, petabytes of active data. So how do we actually design that using external, open hardware, that's really what the principle is about. So this is the first realization and then we continue going with other implementation. >> Surya, great to have you on theCUBE, you guys have done a great job, so I got to ask the bigger question outside of Vexata, you know, data's been a challenge, and as an industry participant and a technologist, what's been the big thing, if you could summarize it down from your perspective, data obviously needs to be free, because applications never know when a piece of data will be needed in context to other things. You see things like metadata, active data's clearly the benefit there, but everyone's got these data lakes out there. We just came back from our Big Data NYC event, and the whole Hadoop thing has been very batch. >> Yeah. >> Store everything in a data lake, but you never know, at any given time, if a piece of data is going to be valuable, until you put it to work. So you really can't put a valuation on data. What has been an inhibitor, the bottlenecks. Has it been the silos, has it been data architecture, has it been the software, or now that the cloud's got compute power, all of the above, what's your thoughts? >> I think you netted out, really data, you look at it as hot data or cold data, and you decide data lake or active data, and I hold it in memory. The biggest problem I see is how do you call something hot or cold, it's hard to tell, and I think the biggest challenge for us is how do you make it all at least warm, so you can get to it when you need to. And that's the hardest challenge for the industry, I think. >> Yeah and I think that people look at self-driving cars to bring up that, because Larry Ellison said onstage, "Autonomous database", which I kind of roll my eyes cause Larry's so good at taking trends and making it look like Oracle has it. Autonomous cars being self-driving, it's the concept. >> Yeah. >> The data's really critical, cause if car's going to have telemetry data, real time is real time, it's not milliseconds, it's nanoseconds. You can't say one week, ten days, and a lot of time people say realtime queries can come back, but the data's a week old, so there's huge issues in what real time means. >> Yeah, and the second issue, you bring up self-driving cars, so the way self-driving cars, the test drives happen today, you plug in a lot of drives into the car, send it out for two weeks, and when it comes back to base you have 200 terabytes in the car that you want to learn with. How long does it take to transfer 200 terabytes? In a regular system? A few days? >> Yeah. >> So until that data's off, this car doesn't move. With us, it takes a few hours, so you can get your car back on the road. So we actually, we not only do great on the transactions, we do great with this, your basic data mobility problems, and we fix it. >> Yeah, you guys are fixing the data mobility problems. Okay, great connotation, one last final point I want to get your thoughts and color on, the internet of things. Cause now you're seeing industrial really being the low hanging fruit right now on IOT, and IOT certainly is hot, it will always be hot, but it also increases the surface area for cyber attacks. So people are kind of taking baby steps there, first one is industrial: plant equipment, could be manufacturing, it could be edge of the network sensor, something along those lines, hacking into the IP network. That's certainly going to create the need for active data. >> Absolutely. >> Your thoughts on that? >> Very much so. You know, IOT is really the classic future growth model, look at the amount of data you're trying to ingest and process. Everything is active, and you have to act on it in real time. >> Does IOT help you guys? >> You know, it does, it quite doesn't show up as IOT, it shows up as machine learning, you get another signature off it, you get all this data, you're trying to learn and figure out anomalies, and you need to process your data and that's us. >> You know I always said that a good business model is reducing steps it takes to do something, making it easy to use, and being high performance. You guys seem to do all three, congratulations. >> We do, thank you. >> Surya Varanasi, CTO and co-founder of Vexata, hot new startup, check them out, @VexataCorp is the Twitter handle, check out their updates, they're at Oracle Open World this week. I'm John Furrier, you're watching CUBEConversation here live in our Palo Alto Studios, thanks for watching. (music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE! Covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. We are here live, in Las Vegas, the Mandalay Bay Convention Center, this is SiliconANGLE Media's theCUBE, our flagship program where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Peter Burris, Head of Research at siliconANGLE and wikibon.com. Our next guest is Jennifer Renaud, who's the CMO/Global Marketing Lead for Oracle Marketing Cloud. She's the brains behind this show, underneath Laura Ipsen, who was on yesterday, General Manager, SVP. Great to see you, Jennifer. >> Thanks, it's great to see you. >> John: Thanks for coming on, I know you're super busy, thanks for spending the time to come on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me, I'm really happy to be here. >> So we talked last year. You guys were new. Laura popped into the position, took over the helm at Oracle Marketing Cloud, you joined the team. It's been quite a transformation over the past year. A lot of great feedback on the show. I mean, the Markies was like the Golden Globes, was glammed up, and people screaming, you mentioned. And then now, the conversations in the hallways, certainly great feedback on the sessions, and people in there saying, "Hey, I'm getting great, qualified people walk through, having great conversations." What happened? Between last year and this year. Give us some insight into what was the big shift. >> The big shift? Well, we've had a big shift in our team. You know, during that time period. (both laughing) Which is really interesting. >> And as manifest by the show, a big shift in direction. >> Yeah, a big shift in direction. You know, two things I think, seriously, there was a big shift in the team, overall, you know, my marketing team, we've made a lot of changes, we're relooking at how we do the work that we do. Really looking at the stories that we tell. You know, there's been a lot of change in that, as well. And then, how we tell our stories together with the rest of our CX team. That's been really important. I spend a lot of time with the rest of my CX peers, you know, that are here also. >> It's interesting, we've been following Oracle, this is our eighth year covering Oracle as Oracle proper, and two years covering Marketing Cloud, with theCUBE, and it was interesting, we were observing that how you guys got here, or there, last year, a lot of great acquisitions and integrated pretty well. But the question was, man, if you can just put all this together. Which you guys were kind of smiling, smirking, but you were doing that, so you have now this cohesive story and platform. You still have pillars of solutions, but, yet integrated under one customer experience. Give us some insight into where that is, and what's next, and how that's going. >> So, the connection with the entire customer experience cloud? >> John: Yeah. >> You know, we've been sharing that message for a while. You know, across Oracle. And I think you probably heard it the first time at Open World, which is where I met you, this last year, and we made some announcements then, but we are continuing to drive that total experience, you know, for our customers to engage with their customers. And, you know, I think probably the best way to look at that, and we were just talking about this a few minutes ago, you know, when I was thinking back in marketing 25 years ago. I've been reminiscing a lot lately. And I was looking back at re-reading the one-to-one future. And at that time, they were really saying, you know, the great thing you can do is engage with a customer in a way where you're a learning organization. So every touchpoint has the right reaction. I might call it, maybe, the physics of marketing. You know, we're going to have the energy that goes with this, so, you know, if I talk to you, if my last engagement with you is a services conversation, then the next marketing message better be in reaction to the last services conversation. And I think now with the ability for us to connect everything that we do in customer experience, and be able to connect our data, and be able to connect our interactions, our transactions, we have the ability to have a really great experience for our customers as result of having this connection. >> And the Marketing Cloud has gotten some good props, too. But I want to ask you about the CMO summit that you guys had in parallel here at the Mandalay Bay, we didn't get a chance to cover it, we were busy doing interviews all day yesterday, but we heard some good feedback. Mark Hurd came in and laid down some, like, "We have all this technology, why are we getting a 1% conversion improvement?" Or, I mean, all that tech. So it makes you rethink about CMO roles. And I want to ask you specifically, what was the conversation like when marketers were trying to think of progressive ways to get modern? What were some of the conversations around where they turn things upside down, what are some of the conversations that the CMOs were having, and saying, look, we know the future's the certain direction, directionally correct data, what do I got to do? >> Yeah, well, it's interesting, we talked a lot about data. We talked a lot about hiring people who can govern data, integrate data, manage data. Several of the companies said, you know, we're in merger and acquisition all the time, and it's a huge issue for us, because a whole new data set comes in. And it may have the same customer touchpoints. You know, the same customers. And now we have to figure out how to match the IDs. And so they said it's a huge challenge for them, you know, to be able to merge all of that. >> It's a great marketing opportunity for you to go to startups saying, hey, if you want to get by the big company, and they're on Oracle, make sure you're on Oracle! >> Jennifer: Make sure to call us. >> But that's a good point. >> Peter: Extends the ecosystem. >> Jennifer: Yeah, exactly. >> But that, the whole system of record, this brings up the integration challenges of moving fast and integrating in data. >> Right, and one of the things that came out of that, which was fascinating, is, the question was asked, is IT doing that, or is business doing it? And, without fail, almost all the marketers said, we own this now. This is our thing. You know, it's the customer touchpoint, business has to own it. >> What percentage of that is ownership by the marketing folks? Because I would say that I see a similar pattern where the digital end-to-end life cycle, from beginning to moment of truth is owned by the marketer. >> Yeah, well, it's happening more and more all the time, of course. >> John: 50/50? 60/40? 70/30? >> I mean, in reality? >> Yeah, reality. Middle America, middle of the world, not Silicon Valley. >> Let's see, in reality, it's maybe 50/50, maybe. I mean, I think we have a long way to go. >> John: Well had the commerce folks on earlier, saying that, 'cause we interviewed her, two years ago at Open World, 50% now are on the cloud vs. on-prem. >> Jennifer: Right. >> On commerce cloud. That's pretty significant. >> Oh yeah, big move. But I think as far as, you know, going back to the question on managing the data, how many people, how this is happening, and who owns it yet? I think there's probably still tension across all the businesses on who owns it and how you do that. If you could drop that tension and say we really do want that customer experience, we are going to focus on the customer. >> But are seeing that, and it's an interesting point, are people battling for control of the process, or are people battling for the control of the data, or both? 'Cause there's a difference. >> I think they are controlling the data. I don't think they're controlling the process, and it would be really great if they got to just obsessing about the customer instead. 'Cause if you did that, then the question of process or owning the data would go away. 'Cause you would do what was right for your business. >> So how has that relationship been between, the crucial relationship between sales and marketing starting to evolve? 'Cause in many respects, marketing used to be in service to sales, especially in the B2B universe, and now what we've heard today, and what we agree with, is marketing needs to be put in service to the customer. You need to do valuable things for the customer, otherwise you're not going to get any business, and you're not going to get any data back. So how is the marketing/sales relationship evolving as both of you try to focus on the customer? >> Well, you know it's interesting. Of course I'm doing that in my own role. Not just watching what's happening with my customers, but in my own role, my relationship is evolving with our salespeople. And, you know, relooking at what happens with the lead? And when we get a lead, what kinds of customers are we doing this with, and how do we want to engage with our customers? And we're completely changing how we've been doing this. I think, in the past, and I think it's really easy for customers to follow the numbers. >> What changes are you guys making right now that you can talk about that would be notable business practice wise that has been based upon data? >> So right now, just reducing our numbers of leads. Making sure that they are the right ones, and match the sales models we have. >> You're still taking a lot of inquiries you're more than happy to have pour in. But you're doing a better job of qualifying. >> We have a lot of demand. Making sure the demand becomes the right lead and opportunity, I think is the most important piece of this. You know, it's interesting language. We call it MQL, a lead score lead that comes out of Eloqua. And, to me, that's not really a qualified lead. I feel like there needs to be human interaction for it to be qualified. So I think it's interesting that the industry, over time, has started calling it an MQL. To me, it's an ML. >> Is the funnel changing now? 'Cause now we also observed and had conversations here on theCUBE where, if there's now super omnichannels, not just omnichannel, but like, every channel's open. There's been a flattening of channels. So you can have anything could be a channel. The entry point to the cloud for you guys could be Marketing Cloud, it could be commerce, it could be something else. Either way, the market is involved. So there's so many channels out there, so what does that do for the funnel? Because, if you're using third party data, which you guys have announced here, with the first party data, that's a compelling, game-changing shift in thinking. So the vertical funnel to your point of, you know, what's at the top. >> There's no such thing as a vertical funnel anymore. I mean, it just doesn't exist that way. Really, if you think about how we are engaging with customers, or consumers, you know, all the time. We talk about the omnichannel world, just like you just said, you can't look at it and say, "I'm going to go out and target someone" and wait for that to come in. People are searching all the time. They're picking up their phone. We just released that CMO Club whitepaper today, you know, talking about mobility. I was laughing, because we said people look at their phones 150 times a day, and I thought, seriously, I do it 150 times an hour. I can't even imagine. >> You're the first CMO that I've ever met that has agreed with me on this one. You're awesome. All right, so the funnel is sideways, it's all over the place, it's everywhere. That brings up the data question. And I think I know where you're going with this, so I'm going to try to see if I can lead you on there. So if that premise is there, which I agree is true, 'cause we have a lot of data that we're putting out there. That's our engagement data with siliconANGLE and all of our assets. The question is, it's the data. So, if the funnel was built for a certain reason, to track things, but that's to get the data, now the data's everywhere, so this brings the question up: how do you find the right data? So is the data available? 'Cause you mentioned the customers are talking, they're doing things. >> Data's available. We have it all over, we just have to make sure we're aggregating it in the right way. So, you know, for us, we're using our DMP, we're connecting it to our third party data, which I think is a great way to do this. You can know more about your customers. In some cases, maybe more than they might know about themselves. We're learning a lot about them as a result. And I think, with that, as we talked about earlier, I want more data. I don't want less data. I want more data. I want to know more about-- >> That's counterintuitive to what most people think about it. >> Exactly, I think it's very counterintuitive. I'm really excited about IOT for that reason. I would love to be marketing to people in space and time. I want to know where you are and what you're doing so that the conversation and the dialogue I'm having with you is exactly relevant to what's happening at that moment. >> You might be an outlier, maybe, but because you work for Oracle, you got a big net. You walk on the tightrope, but you got a net called Oracle. A lot of marketers might not have that support. So you're data-driven, you want more data, bring on the data is what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> Which is good, 'cause you can make sense of it. How does a company get to that position where they would have the courage and confidence to say "bring it on, bring on the data"? What would they-- >> Find the right partnerships. I mean, you can get that data, you have your own first party data, you can get second party data with other groups. There's no reason why you can't go in and say, hey I want to partner with another business on this. Companies have loyalty programs. You can go and share, you know, anonymized data with another group like that and learn more about your potential customer base. There are ways to get at this. >> And you guys are opening up the data cloud to them. Is this a true statement? Oracle customers can get access to the data cloud? Which is all the data that you guys are providing, third party data? >> They can purchase the data. >> John: Well, they can subscribe to it. >> Yeah, they get it with purchasing DMP as well. Yeah, they can subscribe to the data. Yeah, any customer can get access to it. >> I have two questions about what you've said thus far. One was, I heard you say, I want to make sure I heard it, that it's an ML, it's not an MQL until it touches a person. Because that, at a conference where everybody's talking about AI and everyone's talking about automation, that is counterintuitive. Totally agree with you, but want to hear what you mean by that. >> Okay, so we'll distinguish what I think AI will do versus what happens when a lead comes out from Eloqua that's lead scored. So, when a lead is lead scored, you know, it's still human interaction right now that says how do I come up with a lead score? You know, so my team, we spend a lot of time, like, which metric should we be using to make sure we figure out, is truly a lead that should come out of Eloqua at this point. We spend a lot of time, and then we run the data, and we look at it and figure out what's going to be the right mix. >> So you're, in many respects, training Eloqua. Just in a very labor-intensive way. >> Jennifer: Yes, it is a labor-intensive way. >> John: That's a human-curated algorithm. >> It is a human-curated algorithm, yes, and we talk to all of our global teams, we look at absolutely every way we should do this, and then we start testing it and making sure that we get the right leads that are coming out of this. At the right rate. That matches the number of people that we have that can serve the leads, as well. Too many doesn't help us if I don't have enough salespeople. Too few doesn't help me if my salespeople are sitting there not doing anything. >> So the readiness is the knob you're turning. So that the flow of leads are popping out in capacity to fulfill them. >> Exactly, exactly. It's an interesting mix. You know, we've been doing the model that says more is better, more is better, more is better. And after while you say, you know, how are this many people going to service this x many times leads that come out of this? But lead scoring is still based on my less than perfect -- >> Peter: Discretionary observation on what this actually means. >> Jennifer: What this actually means, exactly. >> That's great, that's great-- >> So I still need a human to pick up the phone and call the person and say, you know, are you actually a perspective customer? Are you a student, or are you, you know. >> So you're using some of the inside to then validate and use your judgment, it can be very quick, and very simple, but it's a central feature of the whole process, and it's the ultimate data. It's the ultimate first person data. Did you talk to someone, are they there? That's great. Second question-- >> John: I'm not sure I agree-- >> Now we can go to the AI, I think, which is the other part of that question, which is the predictive analytics that's coming out of this now. So now we have predictive analytics are coming out of this, that are looking at this and saying, hey we can look at this a little differently and do a little more listening and see how people are really engaging. Do we have different search patterns? We're saying, do we see search patterns inside of a company that might say there really is a buying activity happening here? So, great way to look at it from a B2B perspective. Now that begins to change what's happening with the lead. >> So it sets priorities on who they should be calling. Do you still anticipate that that customer's going to get a phone call? >> Jennifer: Yes, yeah. >> Okay great, second question-- >> Hold on, I'm going to push back on that side. One little caveat I have. I agree with your statement, in the all-digital world, the users are self-serving, so you can imagine a scenario where there's no human involvement at all. I'm flying around the web, I'm surfing, I'm discovering, and I'm a person, and I'm into some marketplace, and I'm buying, I'm buying. No human touched me at all. I'm a qualified lead, but I get link-baited, or I get tracked into a discovery pattern that is completely digital. There's no human involvement in that. >> In a B2B sense, though, it's setting up the contract so someone can buy off a contract, for example. So the buying activity may be set up. >> John: Oh, you're talking about B2B? >> Yeah, B2B, always. >> Yeah, and B2C I think it's a totally different scenario. >> When was the last time you got a call from somebody at Amazon? >> John: Never. >> Yeah. So second question, and I think this a great point, it ties back to the conversation we had earlier about partners. The partner often is the weakest chain. Weakest link in the chain. In a world where digital is both informing the customer about what's good and what's bad, but also you're sharing data. You run the risk that that partner defines the quality of the entire chain. So you've got to start sharing more data, you got to start sharing. How is the role of data impacting and influencing the activity of bringing on, nurturing, measuring, ultimately managing, partnerships? >> I think you guys talked to Doug Kennedy yesterday. >> John: He's a pro. >> Yeah, he's fantastic. From a marketing standpoint, in the same way, we are going to continue to share with our partners. So if we're looking at the numbers of partners that we engage with. Could they be the weakest link? I would probably challenge you on that, I think our partners can be our strongest link in what we're doing, and are probably closer to our customers than we are, in marketing, by a long shot. So I count on my partners to bridge that gap that way, absolutely, but will we share data so we can absolutely have a better relationship, from a selling perspective? Yeah. >> First let me qualify, that when you have multiple partnerships involved, and typically a solution, a complex solution like the Marketing Cloud, what we're talking about, is going to have multiple partnerships involved. You may have three phenomenal partnerships, and one good partnership. But that one good partner could have an enormous influence over the three very good partners. That's what I mean. So the second thing is, what I'm talking about is, does Oracle compete, or does Oracle utilize its willingness to use data, especially through tooling like Marketing Cloud, and the customer experience cloud, as a way of making Oracle more attractive to partners? >> Yes, absolutely. We would absolutely want to do that. We haven't been doing a lot of it, but we are moving forward that way, absolutely. We want to have that engagement. Absolutely, we want to have that engagement with our partners. I think, especially in marketing, we don't want them to just buy technology. I mean, they need to buy the really great creativity that comes with our partners, as well. And so we have to share as much data as possible to create that great experience for our customers, through our partnerships. >> Jennifer, I want to thank you for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate you coming on, sharing the insight into your role as CMO from Oracle Marketing Cloud. Appreciate it. Just share what's up for next year. Will there be another, bigger Markies? What's on the agenda for in between this event and next year, what's the plans between event windows? What do you got going on, what's the plan? >> Okay, so, when the 12th annual Markies happens next year, roughly about this time. I think it's almost the same week. Which will be fantastic. In the meantime, we're going to do a lot of storytelling. You will hear a lot about the Markies nominees and Markies winners. We have some incredible stories to tell, it gives us a great opportunity, actually, to talk about the people. You know, for us, the heroes, that created all of these great stories for us. The technology. And how they were using the technology to really make all of this happen, and the partners that they were using. >> Yeah, Doug rolled out his new strategy to the partners, he's been seven weeks on the job, back to Oracle from Oracle in the old days. So he's a pro. >> Jennifer: Yeah, oh yeah, he's great. I worked with him at Microsoft. >> And integrating into the Oracle cloud, still part of the plan? >> Jennifer: Yes. >> Cool. >> Just staying connected with the rest of Oracle, absolutely, we are Oracle. >> We will keep track of the stories with you guys. So we'll be tracking them. >> We'll be telling them with you, all year. >> We'll be documenting them. Jennifer, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. Congratulations on the very successful event. >> Thank you very much. >> We're looking forward to hearing the data stories that you're using, and expanding on that next time. It's theCUBE live here at Las Vegas, at Mandalay Bay, for Oracle Modern CX show, #modernCX, this is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris, more after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from Munich, Germany it's the CUBE, covering Dataworks Summit Europe 2017. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Okay, welcome back everyone here at day two coverage of the CUBE here in Munich, Germany for Dataworks 2017. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vellante. Two days of wall to wall coverage SiliconANGLE Media's the CUBE. Our next guest is Raj Verma, the president and COO of Hortonworks. First time on the CUBE, new to Hortonworks. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you very much, John, appreciate it. >> Looking good with a three piece suit we were commenting when you were on stage. >> Raj: Thank you. >> Great scene here in Europe, again different show vis-a-vis North America, in San Jose. You got the show coming up there, it's the big show. Here, it's a little bit different. A lot of IOT in Germany. You got a lot of car manufacturers, but industrial nation here, smart city initiatives, a lot of big data. >> Uh-huh. >> What's your thoughts? >> Yeah no, firstly thanks for having me here. It's a pleasure and good chit chatting right before the show as well. We are very, very excited about the entire data space. Europe is leading many initiatives about how to use data as a sustainable, competitive differentiator. I just moderated a panel and you guys heard me talk to a retail bank, a retailer. And really, Centrica, which was nothing but British Gas, which is rather an organization steeped in history so as to speak and that institution is now, calls itself a technology company. And, it's a technology company or an IOT company based on them using data as the currency for innovation. So now, British Gas, or Centrica calls itself a data company, when would you have ever thought that? I was at dinner with a very large automotive manufacturers and the kind of stuff they are doing with data right from the driving habits, driver safety, real time insurance premium calculation, the autonomous drive. It's just fascinating no matter what industry you talk about. It's just very, very interesting. And, we are very glad to be here. International business is a big priority for me. >> We've been following Hortonworks since it's inception when it spun out of Yahoo years ago. I think we've been to every Hadoop World going back, except for the first one. We watched the transition. It's interesting, it's always been a learning environment at these shows. And certainly the customer testimonials speaks to the ecosystem, but I have to ask you, you're new to Hortonworks. You have interesting technology background. Why did you join Hortonworks? Because you certainly see the movies before and the cycles of innovation, but now we're living in a pretty epic, machine learning, data AI is on the horizon. What were the reasons why you joined Hortonworks? >> Yeah sure, I've had a really good run in technology, fortunately was associated with two great companies, Parametric Technology and TIBCO Software. I was 16 years at TIBCO, so I've been dealing with data for 16 years. But, over the course of the last couple of years whenever I spoke to a C level executive, or a CIO they were talking to us about the fact that structured data, which is really what we did for 16 years, was not good enough for innovation. Innovation and insights into unstructured data was the seminal challenge of most of the executives that I was talking to, senior level executives. And, when you're talking about unstructured data and making sense of it there isn't a better technology than the one that we are dealing with right now, undoubtedly. So, that was one. Dealing with data because data is really the currency of our times. Every company is a data company. Second was, I've been involved with proprietary software for 23 years. And, if there is a business model that's ready for disruption it's the proprietary software business model because I'm absolutely convinced that open source is what I call a green business model. It's good for planet Earth so as to speak. It's a community based, it's based on innovation and it puts the customer and the technology provider on the same page. The customer success drives the vendor success. Yeah, so the open source community, data-- >> It's sustainables, pun intended, in the sense that it's had a continuing run. And, it's interesting Tier One software is all open source now. >> 100%, and by the way not only that if you see large companies like IBM and Microsoft they have finally woken up to the fact that if they need to attract talent and if they want to be known as talk leaders they have to have some very meaningful open source initiatives. Microsoft loves Linux, when did we ever think that was going to happen, right? And, by the way-- >> I think Steve Bauman once said it was the cancer of the industry. Now, they're behind it. But, this is the Linux foundation has also grown. We saw a project this past week. Intel donated a big project to the Linux now it's taking over, so more projects. >> Raj: Yes. >> There's more action happening than ever before. >> You know absolutely, John. Five years ago when I would go an meet a CIO and I would ask them about open source and they would wink, they say "Of course, "we do open source. But, it's less than 5%, right? Now, when I talk to a CIO they first ask their teams to go evaluated open source as the first choice. And, if they can't they come kicking and screaming towards propriety software. Most organizations, and some organizations with a lot of historical gravity so as to speak have a 50/50 even split between proprietary and open source. And, that's happened in the last three years. And, I can make a bold statement, and I know it'll be true, but in the next three years most organizations the ratio of proprietary to open source would be 20 proprietary 80 open source. >> So, obviously you've made that bet on open source, joining Hortonworks, but open is a spectrum. And, on one end of the spectrum you have Hortonworks which is, as I see it, the purest. Now, even Larry Ellison, when he gets onstage at Oracle Open World will talk about how open Oracle is, I guess that's the other end of the spectrum. So, my question is won't the Microsofts and the Oracles and the IBM, they're like recovering alcoholics and they'll accommodate their platforms through open source, embracing open source. We'll see if AWS is the same, we know it's unidirectional there. How do you see that-- >> Well, not necessarily. >> Industry dynamic, we'll talk about that later. How do you see that industry dynamic shaking out? >> No, absolutely, I think I remember way back in I think the mid to late 90s I still loved that quote by Scott McNeely, who is a friend, Dell, not Dell, Digital came out with a marketing campaign saying open VMS. And, Scott said, "How can someone lie "so much with one word?" (laughs) So, it's the fact that Oracle calling itself open, well I'll just leave it at, it's a good joke. I think the definition of open source, to me, is when you acquire a software you have three real costs. One is the cost of initial procuring that software and the hardware and all the rest of it. The second is implementation and maintenance. However, most people miss the third dimension of cost when acquiring software, which is the cost to exit the technology. Our software and open source has very low exit barriers to our technology. If you don't like our technology, switch it off. You own the software anyways. Switch off our services and the barrier of exits are very, very low. Having worked in proprietary software, as I said, for 23 years I very often had conversations with my customers where I would say, "Look, you really "don't have a choice, because if you want to exit "our technology it's going to probably cost you "ten times more than what you've spent till date." So, it a lock in architecture and then you milk that customer through maintenance, correct? >> Switching costs really are the metric-- >> Raj: Switching costs, exactly. >> You gave the example of Blockbuster Camera, and the rental, the late charge fees. Okay, that's an example of lock in. So, as we look at the company you're most compared with, now that's it's going public, Cloudera, in a way I see more similarities than differences. I mean, you guys are sort of both birds of a feather. But, you are going for what I call the long game with a volume subscription model. And, Cloudera has chosen to build proprietary components on top. So, you have to make big bets on open. You have to support those open technologies. How do you see that affecting the long term distance model? >> Yeah, I think we are committed to open source. There's absolutely no doubt about it. I do feel that we are connected data platform, which is data at rest and data in motion across on prem and cloud is the business model the going to win. We clearly have momentum on our side. You've seen the same filings that I have seen. You're talking about a company that had a three year head start on us, and a billion dollars of funding, all right, at very high valuations. And yet, they're only one year ahead in terms of revenue. And, they have burnt probably three times more cash than we have. So clearly, and it's not my opinion, if you look at the numbers purely, the numbers actually give us the credibility that our business model and what we are doing is more efficient and is working better. One of the arguments that I often hear from analysts and press is how are your margins on open source? According to the filings, again, their margins are 82% on proprietary software, my margins on open source are 84%. So, from a health of the business perspective we are better. Now, the other is they've claimed to have been making a pivot to more machine learning and deep learning and all the rest of it. And, they actually'd like us to believe that their competition is going to be Amazon, IBM, and Google. Now, with a billion dollars of funding with the Intel ecosystem behind them they could effectively compete again Hortonworks. What do you think are their chances of competing against Google, Amazon, and IBM? I just leave that for you guys to decide, to be honest with you. And, we feel very good that they have virtually vacated the space and we've got the momentum. >> On the numbers, what jumps out at you on filing since obviously, I sure, everyone at Hortonworks was digging through the S1 because for the first time now Cloudera exposes some of the numbers. I noticed some striking things different, obviously, besides their multiple on revenue valuation. Pretty obvious it's going to be a haircut coming after the public offering. But, on the sales side, which is your wheelhouse there's a value proposition that you guys at Hortonworks, we've been watching, the cadence of getting new clients, servicing clients. With product evolution is challenging enough, but also expensive. It's not you guys, but it's getting better as Sean Connolly pointed out yesterday, you guys are looking at some profitability targets on the Ee-ba-dep coming up in Q four. Publicly stated on the earnings call. How's that different from Cloudera? Are they burning more cash because of their sales motions or sales costs, or is it the product mix? What's you thoughts on the filings around Cloudera versus the Hortonworks? >> Well, look I just feel that, I can talk more about my business than theirs. Clearly, you've seen the same filings that I have and you've see the same cash burn rates that we have seen. And, we clearly are ore efficient, although we can still get better. But, because of being public for a little more than two years now we've had a thousand watt bulb being shown at us and we have been forced to be more efficient because we were in the limelight. >> John: You're open. >> In the open, right? So, people knew what our figures are, what our efficiency ratios were. So, we've been working diligently at improving them and we've gotten better, and there's still scope for improvement. However, being private did not have the same scrutiny on Cloudera. And, some would say that they were actually spending money like drunken sailors if you really read their S1 filing. So, they will come under a lot of scrutiny as well. I'm sure they'll get more efficient. But right now, clearly, you've seen the same numbers that I have, their numbers don't talk about efficiency either in the R and D side or the sales and marketing side. So, yeah we feel very good about where we are in that space. >> And, open source is this two edged sword. Like, take Yarn for example, at least from my perspective Hortonworks really led the charge to Yarn and then well before Doctor and Kubernetes ascendancy and then all of a sudden that happens and of course you've got to embrace those open source trends. So, you have the unique challenge of having to support sort of all the open source platforms. And, so that's why I call it the long game. In order for you guys to thrive you've got to both put resources into those multiple projects and you've got to get the volume of your subscription model, which you pointed out the marginal economics are just as good as most, if not any software business. So, how do you manage that resource allocation? Yes, so I think a lot of that is the fact that we've got plenty of contributors and committers to the open source community. We are seen as the angel child in open source because we are just pure, kosher open source. We just don't have a single line of proprietary code. So, we are committed to that community. We have over the last six or seven years developed models of our software development which helps us manage the collective bargaining power, so as to speak, of the community to allocate resources and prioritize the allocation of resources. It continues to be a challenge given the breadth of the open source community and what we have to handle, but fortunately I'm blessed that we've got a very, very capable engineering organization that keeps us very efficient and on the cutting edge. >> We're here with Raj Verma, With the new president and COO of Hortonworks, Chief Operating Officer. I've got to ask you because it's interesting. You're coming in with a fresh set of eyes, coming in as you mentioned, from TIBCO, interesting, which was very successful in the generation of it's time and history of TIBCO where it came from and what it did was pretty fantastic. I mean, everyone knows connecting data together was very hard in the enterprise world. TIBCO has some challenges today, as you're seeing, with being disrupted by open source, but I got to ask you. As a perspective, new executive you got, looking at the battlefield, an opportunity with open source there's some significant things happening and what are you excited about because Hortonworks has actually done some interesting things. Some, I would say, the world spun in their direction, their relationship with Microsoft, for instance, and their growth in cloud has been fantastic. I mean, Microsoft stock price when they first started working with Hortonworks I think was like 26, and obviously with Scott Di-na-tell-a on board Azure, more open source, on Open Compute to Kubernetes and Micro Services, Azure doing very, very well. You also have a partnership with Amazon Web Services so you already are living in this cloud era, okay? And so, you have a cloud dynamic going on. Are you excited by that? You bring some partnership expertise in from TIBCO. How do you look at partners? Because, you guys don't really compete with anybody, but you're partners with everybody. So, you're kind of like Switzerland, but you're also doing a lot of partnerships. What are you excited about vis-a-vis the cloud and some of the other partnerships that are happening. >> Yeah, absolutely, I think having a robust partner ecosystem is probably my number one priority, maybe number two after being profitable in a short span of time, which is, again, publicly stated. Now, our partnership with Microsoft is very, very special to us. Being available in Azure we are seeing some fantastic growth rates coming in from Azure. We are also seeing remarkable amount of traction from the market to be able to go and test out our platform with very, very low barriers of entry and, of course, almost zero barriers of exit. So, from a partnership platform cloud providers like Amazon, Microsoft, are very, very important to us. We are also getting a lot of interest from carriers in Europe, for example. Some of the biggest carriers want to offer business services around big data and almost 100%, actually not almost, 100% of the carriers that we have spoken to thus far want to partner with us and offer our platform as a cloud service. So, cloud for us is a big initiative. It gives us the entire capability to reach audiences that we might not be able to reach ringing one door bell at a time. So, it's, as I said, we've got a very robust, integrated cloud strategy. Our customers find that very, very interesting. And, building that with a very robust partner channel, high priority for us. Second, is using our platform as a development platform for application on big data is, again, a priority. And that's, again, building a partner ecosystem. The third is relationships with global SIs, Extensia, Deloitte, KPMG. The Indian SIs of In-flu-ces, and Rip-ro, and HCL and the rest. We have some work to do. We've done some good work there, but there's some work to be done there. And, not only that I think some of the initiatives that we are launching in terms of training as a service, free certification, they are all things which are aimed at reaching out to the partners and building, as I said, a robust partner ecosystem. >> There's a lot of talk a conferences like this about, especially in Hadoop, about complexity, complexity of the ecosystem, new projects, and the difficulties of understanding that. But, in reality it seems as though today anyway the technology's pretty well understood. We talked about Millennials off camera coming out today with social savvy and tooling and understanding gaming and things like that. Technology, getting it to work seems to not be the challenge anymore. It's really understanding how to apply it, how to value data, we heard in your panel today. The business process, which used to be very well known, it's counting, it's payroll, simple. Now, it's kind of ever changing daily. What do you make of that? How do you think that will effect the future of work? Yeah, I think there's some very interesting questions that you've asked in that the first, of course, is what does it take to have a very successful big data, or Hadoop project. And, I think we always talk about the fact that if you have a very robust business case backing a Hadoop project that is the number one key ingredient to delivering a Hadoop project. Otherwise, you can tend to boil the ocean, all right, or try and eat an elephant in one bite as I like to say. So, that's one and I think you're right. It's not the technology, it's not the complexity, it's not the availability of the resources. It is a leadership issue in organizations where the leader demands certain outcomes, business outcomes from the Hadoop project team and we've seen whenever that happens the projects seem to be very, very successful. Now, the second part of the question about future of work, which is a very, very interesting topic and a topic which is very, very close to my heart. There are going to be more people than jobs in the next 20, 25 years. I think that any job that can be automated will be automated, or has been automated, right? So, this is going to have a societal impact on how we live. I've been lucky enough that I joined this industry 25 years ago and I've never had to change or switch industries. But, I can assure you that our kids, and we were talking about kids off camera as well, our kids will have to probably learn a new skill every five years. So, how does that impact education? We, in our generation, were testing champions. We were educated to score well on tests. But, the new form of education, which you and I were talking about, again in California where we live, and where my daughter goes to high school and in her school the number one, the number one priority is to instill a sense of learning and joy of learning in students because that is what is going to contribute to a robust future. >> That's a good point, I want to just interject here because I think that the trend we're seeing in the higher Ed side too also point to the impact of data science, to curriculum and learning. It's not just putting catalogs online. There's now kind of an iterative kind of non-linear discovery to proficiency. But, there's also the emotional quotient aspect. You mentioned the love of learning. The immersion of tech and digital is creating an interdisciplinary requirement. So, all the folks say that, what the statistic's like half the jobs that are going to be available haven't even been figured out yet. There's a value creation around interdisciplinary skill sets and emotional quotient. >> Absolutely. >> Social, emotional because of the human social community connectedness. This is also a big data challenge opportunity. >> Oh, 100% and I think one of the things that we believe is in the future, jobs that require a greater amount of empathy are least susceptible to automation. So, things like caring for old age people in the world, and nursing, and teaching, and artists, and all the rest will be professions which will be highly paid and numerous. I also believe that the entire big data challenge about how you use data to impact communities is going to come into play. And also, I think John, you and I were again talking about it, the entire concept of corporations is only 200 years old, really, 200, 300 years old. Before that, our forefathers were individual contributors who contributed a certain part in a community, barbers, tailors, farmers, what have you. We are going to go back to the future where all of us will go back to being individual contributors. And, I think, and again I'm bringing it back to open source, open source is the start of that community which will allow the community to go back to its roots of being individual contributors rather than being part of a organization or a corporation to be successful and to contribute. >> Yeah, the Coase's Penguin has been a very famous seminal piece of work. Obviously, Ronald Coase who's wrote the book The Nature of the Firm is interesting, but that's been a kind of historical document. You look at blockchain for instance. Blockchain actually has the opportunity to disrupt what the Nature of the Firm is about because of smart contracts, supply chain, and what not. And, we have this debate on the CUBE all the time, there's some naysayers, Tim Conner's a VC and I were talking on our Friday show, Silicon Valley Friday show. He's actually a naysayer on blockchain. I'm actually pro blockchain because I think there's some skeptics that say blockchain is really hard to because it requires an ecosystem. However, we're living in an ecosystem, a world of community. So, I think The Nature of the Firm will be disrupted by people organizing in a new way vis-a-vis blockchain 'cause that's an open source paradigm. >> Yeah, no I concur. So, I'm a believer in that entire concept. I 100%-- >> I want to come back to something you talked about, about individual contributors and the relationship in link to open source and collaboration. I personally, I think we have to have a frank conversation about, I mean machines have always replaced humans, but for the first time in our history it's replacing cognitive functions. To your point about empathy, what are the things that humans can do that machines can't? And, they become fewer and fewer every year. And, a lot of these conferences people don't like to talk about that, but it's a reality that we have to talk about. And, your point is right on, we're going back to individual contribution, open source collaboration. The other point is data, is it going to be at the center of that innovation because it seems like value creation and maybe job creation, in the future, is going to be a result of the combinatorial effects of data, open source, collaboration, other. It's not going to because of Moore's Law, all right. >> 100%, and I think one of the aspects that we didn't touch upon is the new societal model that automation is going to create would need data driven governance. So, a data driven government is going to be a necessity because, remember, in those times, and I think in 25, 30 years countries will have to explore the impact of negative taxation, right? Because of all the automation that actually happens around citizen security, about citizen welfare, about cost of healthcare, cost of providing healthcare. All of that is going to be fueled by data, right? So, it's just, as the Chinese proverb says, "May you live in interesting times." We definitely are living in very interesting times. >> And, the public policy implications are, your friend and one of my business heroes, Scott McNeally says, "There's no privacy in "the internet, get over it." We interviewed John Tapscott last week he said "That's unacceptable, "we have to solve that problem." So, it brings up a lot of public policy issues. >> Well, the social economic impact, right now there's a trend we're seeing where the younger generation, we're talking about the post 9/11 generation that's entering the workforce, they have a social conscience, right? So, there's an emphasis you're seeing on social good. AI for social good is one of the hottest trends out there. But, the changing landscape around data is interesting. So, the word democratization has been used whether you're looking at the early days of blogging and podcasting which we were involved in and research to now in media this notion of data and transparency and open source is probably at a tipping point, an all time high in terms of value creation. So, I want to hear your thoughts on this because as someone who's been in the proprietary world the mode of operation was get something proprietary, lock it dowm, build a fence and a wall, protect it with folks with machine guns and fight for the competitive advantage, right? Now, the competitive advantage is open. Okay, so you're looking at pure open source model with Hortonworks. It changes how companies are competing. What is the competitive advantage of Hortonworks? Actually, to be more open. >> 100%. >> How do you manage that? >> No absolutely, I just think the proprietary nature of software, like software has disrupted a lot of businesses, all right? And, it's not a resistance to disruption itself. I mean, there has never been a business model in the history of time where you charge a lot of money to build a software, or sell a software that you built and then whatever are the defects in that software you get paid more money to fix them, all right? That's the entire perpetual and maintenance model. That model is going to get disrupted. Now, there are hundreds of billions of dollars involved in it so people are going to come kicking and screaming to the open source world, but they will have to come to the open source world. Our advantage that we're seeing is innovation now in a closed loop environment, no matter what size of a company you are, cannot keep up with the changing landscape around you from a data perspective. So, without the collective innovation of the community I don't really think a technology can stay at par with the changes around them. >> This is what I say about, this is what I think is such an important point that you're getting at because we were started SiliconANGLE actually in the Cloudera office, so we have a lot of friends that work there. We have a great admiration for them, but one of the things that Cloudera has done through their execution is they have been very profit oriented, go public at all costs kind of thing that they're doing now. You've seen that happen. Is the competitive advantage that you're pointing out is something we're seeing that similar that Andy Jasseys doing at AWS, which is it's not so much to build something proprietary per se, it's just to ship something faster. So, if you look at Amazon's competitive advantage is that they just continue to ship product faster and faster and faster than companies can build themselves. And also, the scale that they're getting with these economies is increasing the quality. So, open source has also hit the naysayers on security, right? Everyone said, "Oh, open source is not secure." As it turns out, it's more secure. Amazon at scale is actually becoming more secure. So, you're starting to see the new competitive advantage be ship more, be more open as the way to do business. What do you think the impact will be to traditional companies whether it's a startup competing or an existing bank? This is a paradigm shift, what's the impact going to be for a CIO or CEO of a big company? How do they incorporate that competitive advantage? Yeah, I think the proprietary software world is not going to go away tomorrow, John, you know that. There so much of installed software and there's a saying from where I come from that "Even a dead elephant is worth a million dollars," right? So, even that business model even though it is sort of dying it'll still be a good investment for the next ten years because of the locked in business model where customers cannot get out. Now, from a perspective of openness and what that brings as a competitive differentiators to our customer just the very base at which, as I've said I've lived in a proprietary world, you would be lucky if you were getting the next version of our software every 18 months, you'd be lucky. In the open source community you get a few versions in 18 months. So, the cadence at which releases come out have just completely disrupted the proprietary model. It is just the collective, as I said, innovative or innovation ability of the community has allowed us to release, to increase the release cadence to a few months now, all right? And, if our engineering team had it's way it'll further be cut short, right? So, the ability of customers, and what does that allow the customer to do? Ten years ago if you looked for a capability from your proprietary vendor they would say you have to wait 18 months. So, what do you do, you build it yourself, all right? So, that is what the spaghetti architecture was all about. In the new open source model you ask the community and if enough people in the community think that that's important the community builds it for you and gives it to you. >> And, the good news is the business model of open source is working. So, you got you guys have been public, you got Cloudera going public, you have MuleSoft out there, a lot of companies out there now that are public companies are open source companies, a phenomenal change over. But, the other thing that's interesting is that the hiring factor for the large enterprise to the point of, your point about so proprietary not updating, it's the same is true for the enterprise. So, just hiring candidates out of open source is now increased, the talent pool for a large enterprise. >> 100%, 100%. >> Well, I wonder if I could challenge this love fest for a minute. (laughs) So, there's another saying, I didn't grow up there, but a dying snake can still bite you. So, I bring that up because there is this hybrid model that's emerging because these elephants eventually they figure it out. And so, an example would be, we talked about Cloudera and so forth, but the better example, I think, is IBM. What IBM has done to embrace open source with investing years ago a billion dollars into Linux, what it's doing with Spark, essentially trying to elbow its way in and say, "Okay, "now we're going to co-opt the ecosystem. "And then, build our proprietary pieces on top of it." That, to me, that's a viable business model, is it not? >> Yes, I'm sure it is and to John's point with the Mule going IPO and with Cloudera having successfully built a $250 million, $261 million business is testimony, yeah, it's a testimony to the fact that companies can be built. Now, can they be more efficient, sure they can be more efficient. However, my entire comment on this is why are you doing open source? What is your intent of doing open source, to be seen as open, or to be truly open? Because, in our philosophy if you a add a slim layer of proprietariness, why are you doing that? And, as a businessman I'll tell you why you increase the stickiness factor by locking in your customer, right? So, let's not, again, we're having a frank conversation, proprietary code equals customer lock in, period. >> Agreed. And, as a business model-- >> I'm not sure I agree with that. >> As a business model. >> Please. (laughs) We'll come back to that. >> So, it's a customer lock in. Now, as a business model it is, if you were to go with the business models of the past, yes I believe most of the analysts will say it a stickier, better business model, but then we would like to prove them wrong. And, that's our mission as open source purely. >> I would caution though, Amazon's the mother of all lock in's. You kind of bristled at that before. >> They're not, I mean they use a lot of open source. I mean, did they open source it? Getting back to the lock in, the lock in is a function of stickiness, right? So, stickiness can be open source. Now, you could argue that Horonworks through they're relationship with partnering is a lock in spec with their stickiness of being open. Right, so I come back down to the proprietary-- >> Dave: My search engine I like Google. >> I mean Google's certainly got-- >> It's got to be locked in 'cause I like it? >> Well, there's a lot of do you care with proprietary technology that Google's built. >> Switching costs, as we talked about before. >> But, you're not paying for Si-tch >> If the value exceeds the price of the lock in then it's an opportunity. So, Palma Richie's talking about the hardened top, the hardened top. Do you care what's in an Intel processor? Well, Intel is a proprietary platform that provides processing power, but it enables a lot of other value. So, I think the stickiness factor of say IBM is interesting and they've done a lot open source stuff to defend them on Linux, for example they do a (mumbles) blockchain. But, they're priming the pump for their own business, that's clear for their lock In. >> Raj wasn't saying there's not value there. He's saying it's lock in, and it is. >> Well, some customers will pay for convenience. >> Your point is if the value exceeds the lock in risk than it's worth it. >> Yeah, that's my point, yeah. >> 1005, 100%. >> And, that's where the opportunity is. So, you can use open source to get to a value projectory. That's the barriers to entry, we seen 'em on the entrepreneurship side, right? It's easier to start a company now than ever before. Why? Because of open source and cloud, right? So, does that mean that every startup's going to be super successful and beat IBM? No, not really. >> Do you thinK there will be a red hat of big data and will you be it? >> We hope so. (laughs) If I had my that's definitely. That's really why I am here. >> Just an example, right? >> And, the one thing that excites us about this this year is as my former boss used to say you could be as good as you think you are or the best in the world but if you're in the landline business right now you're not going to have a very bright future. However, the business that we are in we pull from the market that we get, and you're seeing here, right? And, these are days that we have very often where customer pool is remarkable. I mean, this industry is growing at, depending on which analyst you're talking to somewhere between 50 to 80% ear on ear. All right, every customer is a prospect for us. There isn't a single conversation that we have with any organization almost of any size where they don't think that they can use their data better, or they can enhance and improve their data strategy. So, if that is in place and I am confident about our execution, very, very happy with the technology platform, the support that we get from out customers. So, all things seem to be lining up. >> Raj, thanks so much for coming on, we appreciate your time. We went a little bit over, I think, the allotted time, but wanted to get your insight as the new President and Chief Operating Officer for Hortonworks. Congratulations on the new role, and looking forward to seeing the results. Since you're a public company we'll be actually able to see the scoreboard. >> Raj: Yes. >> Congratulations, and thanks for coming on the CUBE. There's more coverage here live at Dataworks 2017. I John Furrier, stay with us more great interviews, day two coverage. We'll be right back. (jaunty music)

(Rhythm music) >> Narrator: Live, from Munich, Germany, it's The Cube. Coverage, DataWorks Summit Europe, 2017. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are live in Munich, Germany for DataWorks 2017, formally known as Hadoop Summit. This is The Cube special coverage of the Big Data world. I'm John Furrier my co-host Dave Vallente. Two days of live coverage, day one wrapping up. Now, Dave, we're just kind of reviewing the scene here. First of all, Europe is a different vibe. But the game is still the same. It's about Big Data evolving from Hadoop to full open source penetration. Puppy's now public in markets Hortonworks, Cloudera is now filing an S-1, Neosoft, Talon, variety of the other public companies. Alteryx. Hadoop is not dead, it's not dying. It certainly is going to have a position in the industry, but the Big Data conversation is front and center. And one thing that's striking to me is that in Europe, more than in the North America, is IOT is more centrally themed in this event. Europe is on the Internet of Things because of the manufacturing, smart cities. So this is a lot of IOT happening here, and I think this is a big discovery certainly, Hortonworks event is much more of a community event than Strata Hadoop. Which is much more about making money and modernization. This show's got a lot more engagement with real conversations and developers sessions. Very engaging audience. Well, yeah, it's Europe. So you've go a little bit different smaller show than North America but to me, IOT, Internet of Things, is bringing the other cloud world with Big Data. That's the forcing function. And real time data is the center of the action. I think is going to be a continuing theme as we move forward. >> So, in 2010 John, it was all about 'What is Hadoop?' With the middle part of that decade was all about Hadoop's got to go into the enterprise. It's gone mainstream in to the enterprise, and now it's sort of 'what's next?' Same wine new bottle. But I will say this, Hadoop, as you pointed out, is not dead. And I liken it to the early web. Web one dot O it was profound. It was a new paradigm. The profundity of Hadoop was that you could ship five megabytes of code to a petabyte of data. And that was the new model and that's spawned, that's catalyzed the Big Data movement. That is with us now and it's entrenched, and now you're seeing layers of innovation on top of that. >> Yeah, and I would just reiterate and reinforce that point by saying that Cloudera, the founders of this industry if you will, with Hadoop the first company to be commercially funded to do what Hortonworks came in after the fact out of Yahoo, came out of a web-scale world. So you have the cloud native DevOps culture, Amar Ujala's at Yahoo, Mike Olson, Jeff Hammerbacher, Christopher Vercelli. These guys were hardcore large-scale data guys. Again, this is the continuation of the evolution, and I think nothing is changed it that regard because those pioneers have set the stage for now the commercialization and now the conversation around operationalizing this cloud is big. And having Alan Nance, a practitioner, rock-star, talking about radical deployments that can drop a billion dollars at a cost savings to the bottom line. This is the kind of conversations we're going to see more of this is going to change the game from, you know, "Hey, I'm the CFO buyer" or "CIO doing IT", to an operational CEO, chief operating officer level conversation. That operational model of cloud is now coming into the view what ERP did in software, those kinds of megatrends, this is happening right now. >> As we talk about the open, the people who are going to make the real money on Big Data are the practitioners, those people applying it. We talked about Alan Nance's example of billion dollar, half a billion dollar cost-savings revenue opportunities, that's where the money's being made. It's not being made, yet anyway with these public companies. You're seeing it Splunk, Tableau, now Cloudera, Hortonworks, MapR. Is MapR even here? >> Haven't seen 'em. >> No I haven't seen MapR, they used to have pretty prominent display at the show. >> You brought up point I want to get back to. This relates to those guys, which is, profitless prosperity. >> Yeah. >> A term used for open source. I think there's a trend happening and I can't put a finger on it but I can kind of feel it. That is the ecosystems of open source are now going to a dimension where they're not yet valued in the classic sense. Most people that build platforms value ecosystems, that's where developers came from. Developer ecosystems fuel open source. But if you look at enterprise, at transformations over the decades, you'd see the successful companies have ecosystems of channel partners; ecosystems of indirect sales if you will. We're seeing the formation, at least I can start seeing the formation of an indirect engine of value creation, vis-à-vis this organic developer community where the people are building businesses and companies. Shaun Connolly pointed to Thintech as an example. Where these startups became financial services businesses that became Thintech suppliers, the banks. They're not in the banking business per se, but they're becoming as important as banks 'cuz they're the providers in Thintech, Thintech being financial tech. So you're starting to see this ecosystem of not "channel partners", resell my equipment or software in the classic sense as we know them as they're called channel partners. But if this continues to develop, the thousand flower blooming strategy, you could argue that Hortonworks is undervalued as a company because they're not realizing those gains yet or those gains can't be measured. So if you're an MBA or an investment banker, you've got to be looking at the market saying, "wow, is there a net-present value to an ecosystem?" It begs the question Dave. >> Dave: It's a great question John. >> This is a wealth creation. A rising tide floats all boats, in that rising tide is a ecosystem value number there. No one has their hands on that, no one's talked about that. That is the upshot in my mind, the silver-lining to what some are saying is the consolidation of Hadoop. Some are saying Cloudera is going to get a huge haircut off their four point one billion dollar value. >> Dave: I think that's inevitable. >> Which is some say, they may lose two to three billion in value, in the IPO. Post IPO which would put them in line with Hortonworks based on the numbers. You know, is that good or bad? I don't think it's bad because the value shifts to the ecosystem. Both Cloudera and Hortonworks both play in open source so you can be glass half-full on one hand, on the haircut, upcoming for Cloudera, two saying "No, the glass is half-full because it's a haircut in the short-term maybe", if that happens. I mean some said Pure Storage was going to get a haircut, they never really did Dave. So, again, no one yet has pegged the valuation of an ecosystem. >> Well, and I think that is a great point, personally I think, I've been sort of racking my brain, will this Big Data hike be realized. Like the internet. You remember the internet hyped up, then it crashed; no one wanted to own any of these companies. But it actually lived up to the hype. It actually exceeded the hype. >> You can get pet food online now, it's called amazon. [Co-Hosts Chuckle Together] All the e-commerce played out. >> Right, e-commerce played out. But I think you're right. But everybody's expecting sort of, was expecting a similar type of cycle. "Oh, this will replace that." And that's now what's going to happen. What's going to happen is the ecosystem is going to create a flywheel effect, is really what you're saying. >> Jeff: Yes. >> And there will be huge valuations that emerge out of this. But today, the guys that we know and love, the Hortonworks, the Clouderas, et cetera, aren't really on the winners list, I mean some of their founders maybe are. But who are the winners? Maybe the customers because they saw a big drop in cost. Apache's a big winner here. Wouldn't ya say? >> Yeah. >> Apache's looking pretty good, Apache Foundation. I would say AWS is a pretty big winner. They're drifting off of this. How about Microsoft and IBM? I mean I feel in a way IBM is sort of co-opted this Big Data meme, and said, "okay, cognitive." And layered all of it's stuff on top of it. Bought the weather company, repositioned the company, now it hasn't translated in to growth, but certainly has profitability implications. >> IBM plays well here, I'll tell you why. They're very big in open source, so that's positive. Two, they have huge track record and staff dealing with professional services in the enterprise. So if transformation is the journey conversation, IBM's right there. You can't ignore IBM on this one. Now, the stack might be different, but again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder because depending on what work clothes you have it depends. IBM is not going to leave you high and dry 'cuz they have a really you need for what they can do with their customers. Where people are going to get blindsided in my opinion, the IBMs and Oracles of the world, and even Microsoft, is what Alan Nance was talking about, the radical transformation around the operating model is going to force people to figure out when to start cannibalizing their own stacks. That's going to be a tell sign for winners and losers in the big game. Because if IBM can shift quickly and co-op the megatrends, make it their own, get out in front of that next wave as Pat Gelsinger would say, they could surf that wave and then tweak, and then get out in front. If they don't get behind that next wave, they're driftwood. It really is all about where you are in the spectrum, and analytics is one of those things in data where, you've got to have a cohesive horizontal strategy. You got to be horizontally scalable with data. You got to make data freely available. You have to have an abstraction layer of software that will allow free movement of data, across systems. That's the number one thing that comes out of seeing the Hortonwork's data platform for instance. Shaun Connolly called it 'connective tissue'. Cloudera is the same thing, they have to start figuring out ways to be better at the data across the horizontal view. Cloudera like IBM has an opportunity as well, to get out in front of the next wave. I think you can see that with AI and machine learning, clearly they're going to go after that. >> Just to finish off on the winners and losers; I mean, the other winner is systems integrators to service these companies. But I like what you said about cannibalizing stacks as an indicator of what's happening. So let's talk about that. Oracle clearly cannibalizing it's stacks, saying, "okay, we're going to the red stack to the cloud, go." Microsoft has made that decision to do that. IBM? To a large degree is cannibalizing it's stack. HP sold off it's stack, said, "we don't want to cannibalize our stack, we want to sell and try to retool." >> So, your question, your point? >> So, haven't they already begun to do that, the big legacy companies? >> They're doing their tweaking the collet and mog, as an example. At Oracle Open World and IBM Interconnect, all the shows we, except for Amazon, 'cuz they're pure cloud. All are taking the unique differentiation approach to their own stuff. IBM is putting stuff that's relate to IBM in their cloud. Oracle differentiates on their stack, for instance, I have no problem with Oracle because they have a huge database business. And, you're high as a kite if you think Oracle's going to lose that database business when data is the number one asset in the world. What Oracle's doing which I think is quite brilliant on Oracle's part is saying, "hey, if you want to run on premise with hardware, we got Sun, and oh by the way, our database is the fastest on our stuff." Check. Win. "Oh you want to move to the cloud? Come to the Oracle cloud, our database runs the fastest in our cloud", which is their stuff in the cloud. So if you're an Oracle customer you just can't lose there. So they created an inimitability around their own database. So does that mean they're going to win the new database war? Maybe not, but they can coexist as a system of records so that's a win. Microsoft Office 365, tightly coupling that with Azure is a brilliant move. Why wouldn't they do that? They're going to migrate their customer base to their own clouds. Oracle and Microsoft are going to migrate their customers to their own cloud. Differentiate and give their customers a gateway to the cloud. VVMware is partnering with Amazon. Brilliant move and they just sold vCloud Air which we reported at Silicon Angle last night, to a French company recently so vCloud Air is gone. Now that puts the VMware clearly in bed with Amazon web services. Great move for VMware, benefit to AWS, that's a differentiation for VMware. >> Dave: Somebody bought vCloud Air? >> I think you missed that last night 'cuz you were traveling. >> Chuckling: That's tongue-in-cheek, I mean what did they get for vCloud Air? >> OVH bought them, French company. >> More de-levering by Michael. >> Well, they're inter-clouding right? I mean de-leveraging the focus, right? So OVH, French company, has a very much coexisted... >> What'd they pay? >> ... strategy. It's undisclosed. >> Yeah, well why? 'Cuz it wasn't a big number. That's my point. >> Back to the other cloud players, Google. I think Google's differentiating on their technology. Great move, smart move. They just got to get, as someone who's been following them, and you know, you and I both love an enterprise experience. They got to speak the enterprise language and execute the language. Not through 19 year olds and interns or recent smart college grads ad and say, "we're instantly enterprise." There's a dis-economies of scale for trying to ramp up and trying to be too heavy on the enterprise. Amazon's got the same problem, you can't hire sales guy fast enough, and oh by the way, find me a sales guy that has ten 15 years executive selling experience to a complex strategic sales, like the enterprise where you now have stakeholders that are in multiple roles and changing roles as Alan Nance pointed out. So the enterprise game is very difficult. >> Yup. >> Very very difficult. >> Well, I think these dupe startups are seeing that. None of them are making money. Shaun Connolly basically said, "hey, it used to be growth they would pay for growth, but now their punishing you if you don't have growth plus profitability." By the way, that's not all totally true. Amazon makes no money, unless stock prices go through the roof. >> There is no self-service, there is no self-service business model for digital transformation for enterprise customers today. It doesn't exist. The value proposition doesn't resinate with customers. It works good for Shadow IT, and if you want to roll out G Suite in some pockets of your organization, but an ad-sense sales force doesn't work in the enterprise. Everyone's finding that out right now because they're basically transforming their enterprise. >> I think Google's going to solve their problem. I think Google has to solve their problem 'cuz... >> I think they will, but to me it's, buy a company, there's a zillion company out there they could buy tomorrow that are private, that have like 300 sales people that are senior people. Pay the bucks, buy a sales force, roll your stuff out and start speaking the language. I think Dianne Green gets this. So, I think, I expect to see Google ... >> Dave: Totally. >> do some things in that area. >> And I think, to you're point, I've always said the rich get richer. The traditional legacy companies, they're holding servant in this. They waited they waited they waited, and they said, "okay now we're going to go put our chips on the table." Oracle made it's bets. IBM made it's bets. HP, not really, betting on hardware. Okay. Fine. Cisco, Microsoft, they're all making their bets. >> It's all about bets on technology and profitability. This is what I'm looking at right now Dave. We talked about it on our intro. Shaun Connolly who's in charge of strategy at Hortonworks clarified it that clearly revenue, losing money is not going to solve the problem for credibility. Profitability matters. This comes back to the point we've said on The Cube multiple years ago and even just as recently as last year, that the world's flipping back down to credibility. Customers in the enterprise want to see credibility and track record. And they're going to evaluate the suppliers based upon key fundamentals in their business. Can they make money? Can they deliver SLAs? These are going to be key requirements, not the shiny new toy from Silicon Valley. Or the cool machine learning algorithm. It has to apply to their product, their value, and they're going to look to companies on the scoreboard and say, "are you profitable?" As a proxy for relevance. >> Well I want to keep it, but I do want to, we've been kind of critical of some of the Hadoop players. Cloudera and Hortonworks specifically. But I want to give them props 'cuz you remember well John, when the legacy enterprise guys started coming into the Hadoop market they all said that they had the same messaging, "we're going to make Hadoop enterprise ready." You remember that well, and I have to say that Hortonworks, Cloudera, I would say MapR as well and the ecosystem, have done a pretty good job of making Hadoop and Big Data enterprise ready. They were already working on it very hard, I think they took it seriously and I think that that's why they are in the mix and they are growing as they are. Shaun Connolly talked about them being operating cashflow positive. Eking out some plus cash. On the next earnings call, pressures on. But we want to see, you know, rocket ships. >> I think they've done a good job, I mean, I don't think anyone's been asleep at the switch. At all, enterprise ready. The questions always been "can they get there fast enough?" I think everyone's recognized that cost of ownership's down. We still solicit on the OpenStack ecosystem, and that they move right from the valley properties. So we'll keep an eye on it, tomorrow we'll be checking in. We got a great day tomorrow. Live coverage here in Munich, Germany for DataWorks 2017. More coverage tomorrow, stay with us. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vallente. Be right back with more tomorrow, day two. Keep following us.

>> Announcer: Live, from San Francisco. It's The Cube, covering Oracle Open World 2016. Brought to you by Oracle. Now, here's your host, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, we are live here in San Francisco. This is SiliconANGLE Media's The Cube. It's our flagship program, we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the CEO of SiliconANGLE Media, joined by co-host Peter Burris all week. Three days of wall-walk of day three. He's the head of research at SiliconeANGLE Media Inc., as well as the general manager of Wikibon research. Our next guest is Roddy Martin, VP of SC Supply Chain Cloud Product Marketing at Oracle. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you very much for the opportunity. I look forward to the discussion. >> Thanks for coming on. Really want to hear your thought leadership around the supply chain transformation, because it might be a little bit bumpy depending upon your perspective. But is a huge opportunity going on in every single theater of where software used to be a point solution. The cloud is now an opportunity for customers to think differently, and is a catalyst for essentially a business model change as well as a fundamental data-driven change. Your thoughts on this? What do you see going on? What are the key inflection points? >> So a very interesting part of my background is I came out of the brewing industry in South Africa. and then I led the supply chain practice at AMR Research, which today is Gartner. And we did a lot of studies on, what are companies doing to lead this transformation? Because it's a transformation of the interim business operating model of a company. This is not stitching data together in the traditional supply chain system sense. So one of the very first foundations that is really fundamental, and Gartner has done a great job of carrying the search forward, is the idea that every company progresses to an interim operating model in five stages of capability, and every one of those builds on the other. So they're either reacting in stage one's problem and never saw the shortage coming and ran out of product. Stage two is I performance improve around projects. Stage three is I drive functional excellence. And stage four I start working as an engine outside an operating model. In other words, I'm driving the business from what's happening in the market and I'm making sure that supply is matching demand. So it's very interesting and it's very important to consider that as the base foundation for this whole discussion. >> So that outside is interesting, we've heard this before, a lot of people are going that way, but there's no shortcuts. Can you talk about, cause you talk about the endpoint is then outside-in. >> Right, when you're operating as a demand-driven interim supply channel operating model, you can't run out of supply, right? So if you saw a change happening in the marketplace but there's nothing to supply, you've really just messed up the business. And so, each of these stages builds on every other stage. So functional excellence is: Am I good at planning? Am I good at product management? Am I good at logistics? Because those are the foundations for operating in the interim business model. This is why the Oracle's blanching in the cloud, in fact all of Oracle's developments in the cloud are so important because you're effectively building a new process oriented operating model that spins the entire business. If I started off with ERP systems and then I put logistics in place and tied it together, there's all sorts of disconnects in the business. When you pick it up in cycle times, you pick it in disconnect sometimes, they don't see changes to the marketplace for weeks. So, this overarching end to end supply chain operating model in the cloud is a fundamental enabler. >> So how do you gauge a customer? First of all, I buy everything that you said, but I want to bring up a point, because it seems to me that the theme of Oracle OpenWorld that traditional applications and I won't say, I'll just say the word Silo just to use it as a point, has been a specific domain specific thing. But to be end to end and be outside-in, which is the end game, you have to know how to talk and integrate with other systems which might have been a problem if you built the most badass end to end system. >> That is a part of the challenge and in fact, a lot of companies that I've worked with over the 15 years I've been researching this, they get stuck for that very reason. In other words, this is a re-engineering of the whole IT infrastructure versus having a thousand consultants come in and tie all my data together over a question of four years and move 15 instances of whatever system you want to one. >> So, if I question on the journey thing, you mentioned thousands of consultants, which customers are now seeing. They want faster mile posts, they want to see faster agility but a lot of the customers actually outline the journey for the customer. So they're saying, here's your journey and they shorten the mile posts for the deliverables. But they're the one getting paid for it so is that the right model, should they be outlining the journey for the customer? >> And they are. It's been very interesting because I was a partner with a major global consulting company for four years and I've been mixing with them here, they suddenly recognizing that this path to the cloud is something they've better get on the bandwagon because they're not going to have a thousand consultants deploying whatever ERP system you talk about as the future of IT. So, what's happening is the business is having much more of a say in this fast deployment, fast time to value, putting these new-- >> So they're driving the journey for parameters? >> They are gearing up for this new journey, the consultants are. >> So, let's get to the fundamentals behind all this and ask a question about it. At the end of the day, digital technologies give customers an option to do their journeys very differently whether in a B2B sense or a consumer sense. And as they use digital technologies, they're also giving data up and so we have now a combination where customers are getting something out of digital, they are demanding it as part of the engagement model. They are giving up data along the way, and the technologies for sensing and doing something with that data in business are now, we're not figuring out how that impacts business design, process design, and offering design. >> So, that's stage 4S, what we talk about is people, process, and technology versus, in the past, when you had stage one, two, and three. People as one set of projects, process as another set of projects, and technology as another set of projects. >> Yeah, I may or may not take some middlings with the model you put out, but it does matter. At the end of the day, what is driving this increasingly is that it used to be that the dominant consideration in, I think, and I'm testing you, the dominant consideration was assets. Where is the physical asset, where are the materials, where is the machine, and we'll focus our returns on this things and then presume that there's a demand for it and now we're getting all this data about demand and that is having an impact on how we talk about arranging the assets. >> That is the inside-out to outside-in. So, let me give you an example without mentioning companies. A major retailer and a major pharmaceutical company. They share pollen data, they share weather data, they mine Facebook to find out what are people saying about allergies, let's say in New England. And the ragweed's busting and they say, do we have the right levels of inventory, and they're moving inventory to make sure that people who aren't on Facebook are saying we can't buy this particular product. They're moving inventory, that's the difference. >> So, they're sharing data amongst themselves. >> Yes, and they're collaborating between retailers. >> Arguably a similar example, and a retailer that's actually not moving inventory but moving pointers and offering new channel options so that someone decides may not, that they know somebody's going to come into the store, the size may not be there but they can still get it to them that day. >> So, it's very interesting, Procter and Gamble, who I did a lot of work with, and this is public domain information, the CEO drove two fundamental transformation messages in the business. And they called it the two moments of truth. He said, we will always have our product when we say we've got a product. So, if we promote a new product, the consumer goes to the shelf, it will be there. Moment of truth number two, we understand why consumers choose and use our products. And you don't fix number two until you fix number one because if I wanted a small tube of toothpaste and I went in and there were only big ones, it's the wrong buying signal. So, what you're seeing is that whole flip to measuring what the market's looking for and shaping their demand and then making sure that the assets and the supply system is geared to deliver. >> Right, I want to ask you a question. First of all, I love that point, I love your point about the data, but here's the question: cause supply chain has been very instrumentation drive, okay, and that certainly is transforming but now you mention Procter and Gamble. We are living in an era where, in the history of business, you can actually now potentially measure everything. So how does that impacting the reconfiguration of the business model? I mean, Procter and Gamble has those moments of truth, every company will have a moment of truth which is, everything is now measurable so, advertising to employee things and everything. >> So let's take the asset story versus the on shelf thing, right, so when I have assets and I'm getting all the data out of my assets, what am I doing with all of that data, right? Because it's not connected to demand. What I got to know is what demand data do I really want to be able to move my assets to the right place. >> Peter: By the way, the shelf is an asset. >> Of course it is, yes. It's a sensing point and it's an asset. They own it, they replenish that shelf. So the point is, data is everywhere and now these, the consulting and the BPM organizations supporting and companies doing their own business process manner, they got to know what data is really important and what data from the outside-in is going to allow me to leverage a new operating model for my business and become digital. >> So, this is really awesome, I was talking with an Oracle executive last night at one of their customer parties and we had a conversation around this data sharing. This is a new, different behavior. This is a theme of the show that no one's really talking about but it's in plain sight which is there is a data sharing aspect of systems and vendors and companies. >> Roddy: That's why the cloud is so important. >> John: This is now impacting everything. >> Everything. >> How do companies go forward and do this? What are you seeing, is there a best practice, is there a starting point? Is there a five step process on that? >> Well, first of all, these transformations are being lead by the C level executive team in a business. This is now longer somebody who decides to buy a new IT system and plug it in to the business. So, the business is saying, how do we change the operating model of the way we work, right? So, and then, what are the capabilities, and this is where that five stage model comes in, what capabilities do we need to look at building over the next three years so that we can operate in this intent way because you can't wake up tomorrow and go from an inside-out asset driven business to an outside-in demand driven business in two weeks. It ain't going to happen. >> So what's the progression? What's the progress bar look like when you have that moment of an epiphany and say, you know, I'm the CEO-- >> What's the earning point of the business? If it's Procter and Gamble, I want X number of one billion dollars brands. If you're a pharmaceutical company, you want to launch brand new drugs and you want to do it at half the price and half the speed that you're used to. It's the business articulating, this is why the leadership teams are so fundamental, articulating what's the burning platform and then translating that back into the capabilities-- >> So you get a reverse engineer. >> Outside-In. >> Outside-In, I love it. >> The way our research says it, and it's very similar but I want to test this because it's, we say start with context. >> Yes. >> What are you going to do with your customer that you have to do better than everybody else? And then identify the community that you're going to do it with and identify the capabilities that are going to delight that community. So it's context, community, and capabilities. >> Now here's the context, further piece to context. If context changes, how quickly do I sense that change and how fast can I respond to that change? Because if I've got all my asset capabilities and my supply capabilities locked into one set of context and that changes and I now have to re-engineer my whole business, I may lose the whole show in the process. I got to see those changes as they are happening, literally in real time. This is where the internet of things, this is where demand shaping, demand sensing, retailers collaborating, supplies connected into supply chain, everybody sharing that information and the fact that not many people, they don't know how to do it. The culture of business is not yet at the points-- >> That's why the measurement thing I brought up, I mean Procter and Gamble, they used to say to their agencies, we know that 50% of our advertising is good, we don't know which half. So now they can measure it all just like in every other aspect so this is where the business model-- >> You also have to be careful about whether or not, again going back to context changes, measurements change, data can blow you away. You have to be very smart about how you do it so a lot of these intelligent things, machine learning, how the models get built, how the insides get delivered, all become very very important. Very quickly, I have two quick questions for you. One is really approximate to the conversation, one less so but the approximate one: IOT. IOT is, has many many applications. Certainly turning analogue data into digital data so you can build models is a crucial piece of it. But it also has another implication in how you enact the output of that model back into the real word. How does supply chain and IOT come together? >> So if you look at the studies that are being done by Oracle and Gartner et cetera on what's important to the supply chain, two things come up. One is visibility and the other is analytics. Right, so there's tons of data available, to your point just now. That data could cause massive noise to the business unless you know what you're looking at. I know companies that will say, 95% visibility of changes on their demand side is good enough but I'm good enough on the supply side to be able to adjust. But you got to know which data to look at. So I'm looking at on shelf. I'm looking at what consumers are choosing and using, I'm looking to see what of my contract manufacturers-- >> Peter: Analyze key constraints. >> Bingo, so it's not about, I think what we're all going to have to learn in the internet of things is we need, again, a cloud based internet of things platform that does the analytics. >> Because we can rewire things faster. >> Exactly, you can adjust the business to new scenarios based on what you're reading from the demand side and what you're reading from the supply side. >> So you're a great foil for my second question. My second question is you look back at the history, or the recent history let's call it, of strategy, very asset based, Porter said pick the industry that has the best returns, pick your position in that industry, then choose your games based on the five factor analysis that you want to play to get to that position. Very asset oriented, we're in control, that's going to dictate how things change. What you just suggested was a very very different way of thinking about strategy. >> Same fundamentals. It's the same fundamentals but it's allowing yourself to adjust those fundamentals based on what's happening in the market place. >> Peter: But you're not going to base it on just the assets. >> No, we're not going to base it on the assets unless you've focused on, like if you're an engineering company and that's all you make is machines, you can't suddenly start producing toothpaste, for example. There are, that's why I say it's a reconfiguration of those same principles but flexible enough to meet demand. >> So how does, how does the world of design and the world of strategy start to come together in C suite? >> Fundamentally, because it's the voice of the customer that starts to count. It's the voice of the customer that dictates the strategy. So if my customers don't want green Guinness for Saint Patrick's Day, don't make any, because it's going to hang around and get thrown away, right? So, the voice of the customer determines what's happening on the demand side and the supply side has to be agile enough to meet that need. >> So, I would suggest keep Guinness the way it is because it's damn good the way it is, so personally I would agree on the Guinness comment. No green Guinness. >> So, what's the South Africa beer? >> Castle Lager. Well, SAB, South African Brewery, has been bought by Anheuser-Busch InBrev, a massive big giant. >> We love beer and if there's any beer sponsors out there, we're happy looking for our Budweiser. We want a, maybe an IPA in there. Roddy, thanks for spending the time, coming in with you, appreciate it. Some thought leadership here on Reconfiguration and looking at some of the nuances that are really going to impact the buyers here on The Cube. Oracle Open will be back with more live coverage from SiliconANGLE's The Cube after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco. It's the CUBE, covering Oracle Open World 2016. Brought to you by Oracle. Now here is your host, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Okay welcome back everyone we are here live in San Francisco for The Cube. This Silocon Angle Media's flagship program, where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the co-CEO of Silicon Angle Media with Peter Burris, head of research for Silicon Angle Media. He's also the general manager of Wikibon Research. Check out wikibon dot com for all the latest research and cloud, big data infrastructure. And we're at Oracle OpenWorld 2016. I'm excited to have our next guest, Don Johnson, VP of engineering for product development for the Infrastructures as a Service for Oracle Cloud. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> John: Thanks for spending the time to come on. We really appreciate it. >> My pleasure. >> And obviously Oracle's cloud last year was obviously the announcement they're marching to the cloud. A big building block in this, was Infrastructure as a Service. They had the sass. They're taking names, kicking butt in there and they're transforming. Platform as a service developing nicely this year, showed some progress. But the upgrade if you will, or reboot or reset, however you want to call it, was fundamentally to introduce the new stuff with Infrastructures as a Service, to kind of round everything off. Give us the update. What's the key new news for Infrastructure as a Service and why is it important? >> Well a couple things. Let me start with the last part of your question, why is it important. So, very broadly, I would say, There's kind of two strata of cloud. There's cloud platform and there's everything that's up above, apps, sass, etc. Cloud platform I think is a big category. It's broad spectrum but it's IaaS and Paas and then there's lots of stuff that falls inside of there. Iaas is a fundamental and foundational building block and all of the characteristics, that everything up above, relies on or requires is basically enabled by infrastructure If you want to run at massive scale, if you want network connectivity between place A and place B if you want intrinsic security, that's all things that are foundational characteristics and you either have them or you don't based on whether infrastructure IaaS gives them to you. And so, for us, for Oracle, we're a cloud platform company. This is a foundational piece, and we're investing in this very aggressively and we're driving in a very innovative direction on this. So, >> You've been at Amazon since 2005, just recently joined Oracle on the engineering side and you know, infrastructure right now we're seeing is a cost and performance game. Drive the cost down as low as possible while preserving scale and performance, real critical. And almost hardening the top if you will, creating a hardened infrastructure so that you can enable dev-ops and some coolness around agility all that good stuff above, on top of the could. So what's the key things this year that you guys filled in terms of product? What was the key innovations and, on the development side, what was the key sprint for you guys? >> Well, so what we've been announcing at IaaS is really our next generation infrastructure, which is two-fold. It is the infrastructure itself, what are data centers and networks and virtual network looks like and then it's a new suite of products that we put on top of this, bare metal cloud services. And this is the fruit of a big kind of back to basics foundational exercise where we have gone and redesigned everything from the ground up. We've done it with a focus on a bunch of core, core criteria. Core things that we wanted to, that we wanted to capture and that we wanted to do better, better than have been done in the industry to date. And I would characterize those as two-fold. First, we are bringing along, all of the best characteristics of the cloud and why the cloud is compelling and what people, use it for, Self-service, pay for to use. It's elastic; it's easy to use. It's, there's low friction. It's high-scale, etc. But there's a number of things that for our core customer-base, actually are very challenging in moving to the cloud. And when I say our core customer-base, if you have a large existing, you know, if you're an enterprise and you have a large existing infrastructure and deployment, typically on premise, you have a lot of constraints and it's difficult to actually move into this new environment and take advantage of all that it has to offer. And there are, this applies to how your applications will run there, the assumptions that they make, your security and controls. And so we've identified a number of areas that we fundamentally wanted to do better than they've been done before. Security, reliability, governance, the ability to manage, if you're a large complex organization, you have a large complex footprint and deployment in the cloud, the ability to manage it. Performance, performance is a broad spectrum. Peak performance, raw performance, predictable performance in a particular price performance. You're talking about performance and cost. And sort of an adjunct to performance is the ability to harness modern technologies because if you look at where storage is going, non-volatile RAM and technologies like Intel Crosspoint. How can you actually enable customers to get access to that and use it and harness what it offers, very, very quickly. And most, most of all really, flexibility. Sort of the choice and what I mean by that is when you're a cloud provider you, you kind of pick a, you pick a certain level at which you implement and define and build your abstractions, and then, that has consequences in what choices you actually offer. So let me be a little bit more precise about this. A core thing that we did, sort of the keys, the special sauce in any cloud platform is the virtual network. And we made a fundamental choice that the way in which we're going to do virtual networks is to pull the virtualization into the network itself where we think it belongs. >> John: So no hypervisor? >> It's not in the hypervisor. And so, what that means is first it means we're able to like the, the requirement that we have of something that we can plug into our cloud, your cloud, your virtual network is, it has an ethernet port. This means that we put, we can put anything into a virtualized network. Our whole infrastructure, you know the presentation to the customers is everything runs in a virtual overlay. It's all virtual network. But we could put any class of resource in there. We could do bare metal. We could do an engineered system. We can, honestly, we can take an arbitrary middle box from you know, any third party vendor. This lets us give our customers bare metal. Giving our customers bare metal means we can, we can take, so we provide bare metal, compute with NVME drives. They are phenomenal. There is nothing, like we're literally giving you a server in the cloud with a, you know, provision in minutes paid by the hour. And you get, in our biggest shape, you get in excess of four million 4k read-high ops. Like this is phenomenal power. So really there is nothing that stands between us, between the technology and us giving it to you. >> So that was the key design criteria, then? >> That was the key design criteria and so this you know, in terms of sort of, flexibility and preserving choice, this means, you know, principle you can bring any OS. You can bring any hypervisor. If you have some old stuff that's difficult to move, you can't break up our hypervisor. >> So you let the performance, everyone kind of speak for themselves if you will. So, the customer can put anything on this thing >> Yeah. And these are phenomenally powerful boxes. >> Okay so now, how does that compare with Amazon and Azure because the number one question I get is, and let me see if you can put some color around this. Obviously Amazon had a different thing. You guys had a clean sheet of paper and you took smaller steps, computed storage and built services and scaled up there. Azure had, kind of backed into it with their existing business and there portals and all their services and then now are moving their customers on there. So, the number one question I get is, well what's different with the IaaS on Oracle vis-à-vis AWS and Microsoft Azure. How do you answer that question? Is there a distinct difference? Is there a design philosophy? Is it? >> Well, the design philosophy for Iaas is what I was just articulating. And in essence it, it looks and acts very, very similar from the perspective of the customer, the user experience at scale. As well as, it preserves choice and flexibility and is amenable. Basically it is it is much more friendly to the large enterprise or large business that is outside of the, often times and typically, outside of the sweet spot of what an infrastructure like say Amazon was originally designed for. So as a principle, we are trying to meet our customers where they're at. From, they want to migrate over some apps and do it cautiously and maybe not change too much about them. And not see that as a constraint or an obstacle to get to all of the, all of the promise and power of, running modern applications in high-scale, highly available. >> Look in many respects, in many respects, cloud is naturally a network-centric compute model. >> Don: Yes. >> By putting more, by not putting network virtualization above the network but putting it into the network, does that also at some point in time give you greater flexibility, the option to bring even more of, >> Don: Absolutely. >> core work that's gone down into the network? So that you can actually start liberating some of the power of a real network computing model. Others can't do that right now. So if you think about it, what kinds of applications might that make possible in the future? Thinking about IOT for example, the ability to use a network model to describe how work gets allocated within a cloud of services? >> Well, I think the, the network ultimately, what you need it to do, there's a few things you need it to do. You need to very reliably and quickly move bits from place a to place b. You need it to it to have the flexibility sort of, as a topology to be able to put things in. And you need it to preserve, privacy and plugability. So the fundamental thing that I see our virtual network supporting and enabling, is basically building up a fabric of services, and letting us say, so everyone runs in a private overlay. We want to make it easy for any provider, ourselves as well as any third party provider, to inject micro-services into your, into your private network. We want to make it easy to be able to bring over traditional security controls, where, you want to, set up bastions and set up taps and be able to introspect you know, do, you know traditional IDS, IPS. So, I see network virtualization really as an enabler of, you know it's providing a fabric that lets you, that gives you great flexibility in wiring things together. I hope that answered your questions. >> So final question for you, what's next? So what's on the, what's the priorities on the to-do list for you guys as you go down, a two point five, a two point one? As they say at Microsoft, never make it an odd, an even number, make it a, you know. Two point one or two point five or three point o. What's next? >> There's a ton of things. So we're building up data centers and new geographies. We're going big. We're going to add a ton of skews. We're going to make bigger things, smaller things, adding, a ton more features really all across the board. So I don't know that I see it as there's a two point five. There's going to a rapid pace. >> So more slew of announcement >> Very similar >> Don: Yes. >> to the cadence we've been seeing at Oracle and Amazon traditionally had started that trend. Larry couldn't even finish the keynote on Sunday because the announcement stream was so large >> No we have a, you'll see a constant string of releases on a, you know, a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis. There's just a ton of stuff coming. We have a ton of features to add. We have a ton of interesting new services to add. >> So the pace is fast. You're running hard? >> Don: The pace is very fast. >> Well, congratulations and looking forward to following you guys and your success. Love the agile mindset. Love to see that cadence of shipping stuff, moving really, really fast and appreciate, >> Alright. >> you spending the time. >> Don: Thank you very much. >> Sharing your insights. The Cube live here at OpenWorld. You're watching The Cube. Back with more live coverage here in San Francisco after this short break. (softly intense techno music)

(upbeat synth music) >> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's The Cube, covering Oracle OpenWorld 2016. Brought to you by Oracle. Now, here's your hosts John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. We are here live in San Francisco for Oracle Open World 2016. This is SilconANGLE Media. It's The Cube, our flagship program, where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the co-CEO of SiliconANGLE Media, joined by my co-host this week, Peter Burris, head of research at SiliconANGLE Media as well as the General Manager of Wikibon Research. Our next guest is Hari Sankar, who's the group Vice President of Enterprise Performance. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for joining us today. So, one of the things that you're in is performance management but in a different way, kind of a CFO perspective. >> Hari: That's right. >> Which this show is all about, ROI, total cost of ownership. But Oracle has a lot of software, finance software. First, take a step back and spend a minute to describe what is performance management and your role at Oracle. >> So traditionally, performance management is really about how finance sort of manages the overall business performance of a company. It's about things like forward-looking things like planning, forecasting, and budgeting. It's about, sort of, backward-looking things like okay, our quarter is done, how do we close the books and how do we report the numbers both internally, for management recording purposes, and externally, to the street and various stakeholders. So there is the compliance side to it. There is a strategy side to it, and these things have been traditionally what is performance management. What we are seeing now is that kind of discipline is now going beyond finance into operating lines of businesses, sales and marketing and manufacturing and so on. >> The, the-- >> One of the things, sorry, John, I think one of the things that is really interesting, especially in light of this show, is as we go through a process of digital transformation, where data becomes one of the most important assets in the business, that means that the asset specificity, to use a finance term, the degree to which an asset has only one use, starts to go down because you can program it. So marketing, sales, all the assets, intellectual property, data-oriented, that they've been developing over the years now can be bought under the umbrella of Enterprise Performance Management. >> That is absolutely true. That is absolutely-- >> So how is that happening? >> So part of how this is happening is let's say you are a marketing organization. You are spending $50 million on digital marketing. Now, there is a desire from the part of the marketing department to sort of manage that spend more diligently with more discipline and drither, just like finance manages any other line item in the budget. There's more desire to provide transparency to the business, in terms of here's where we are spending it and here's where we are getting returns, here's where we are perhaps not getting returns. So that is the planning part of it, and then there is also the reporting part of it, where we are seeing the emergence of the concept of narrative reporting, where you are saying hey, look, I'm not just going to distribute numbers and charts to my stakeholders, whether it's inside the company or outside, I'm going to give them context, I'm going to give them commentary on these numbers. If there is a variance, I'm going to tell them why is this there. Do I expect this variance to be there next quarter? What am I doing about it? So, it sort of brings those numbers to life and avoids that back and forth that typically happens. >> How much is the Performance Management moving out of the CFO function, and I want to get your take on how the costs in IT is becoming not just a functional shared resource but IT is now integrated across the whole company. Mark Hurd had tweeted yesterday on Twitter, "As more CEOs and CFOs understand "the potential of the cloud, "CIOs are going to get a lot more help," implying Oracle is going to help them. But it brings up the point that the CIO now is brought into the CFO conversation, they always have in facilities and what not, but now from a business perspective their contribution is significant and now co-mingled is it. Do you see that trend happening and what does that mean for the software side of it? >> We're definitely seeing that trend happening. For example, the most important new term to come out in finance in some time is the notion of digital finance. >> John: The notion of what? >> Digital finance, right? So this is really about whether you call it digitalization or not, digital finance, digital marketing, digital sales. So this digital business idea sort of elevates this role of the CIO because, as you said, data becomes a very, very important asset in terms of how you fundamentally drive innovation in your business, and so that digital notion is sort of elevating the role of the CIO. And in the context of Performance Management, as you see this spread beyond finance into other lines of businesses, other lines of businesses are starting to be more disciplined and rigorous in how they sort of measure their performance, how they manage their performance. There's also a need to connect the dots across. You know, if I'm doing a marketing plan, which is an important element of my overall spend, if there is a fluctuation or change, a big change in my marketing spend, that needs to be reflected back in the finance budget. So connecting the dots and aligning the plans across different functions is becoming a big priority as well. So you're seeing a lot of important changes happening. >> You just said a few things that's just gotten me standing up and getting all excited. Peter and I looked at each other, digital business, digital assets, digitizing your business, these are the mega-- >> Data value. >> Data value, this comes back down to what we've been talking about all week here on The Cube and for the past year. This is now what was once a come together, have a meeting, share, cross-pollinate, somewhat automated but in the end manual, to fully integrated. This is probably the biggest business problem in digital transformation right now. How come we're not hearing more? This is a-- >> Yeah, I think that's a great point, John. At the end of the day and what we've been talking about is that so this is is a little bit of SiliconANGLE Media, Wikibon, we believe that digital business, full-stop, is how you use data to differentially create sustained customers. >> Absolutely. >> That is digital business. You can say all kinds of new channels and all this other stuff, but it all boils down to are you using data as an asset better than your competitors? >> Yep. >> So that as a basis, two things. First off, interesting that Mark Hurd, we talked about it earlier, this is a quick aside, Mark Hurd talking about how CIOs are going to get more help. Remember when we talked about how Oracle's going to have to bring a lot of the IT group forward in its new transformation. >> This is it right here. >> Absolutely, but I'm going to throw you a little bit of a curve ball. I hope I'm not going to throw you a curve ball but its a very, very important point. As the IT organization, or as increasingly, the methods that we use to create digital assets, and increasingly also products, they're iterative, they're empirical, they're opportunistic, they're agile. That the traditional, year-long budget that says you have a certain money to spend, and you spend it or it goes away and you better not fail with this money, comes under attack by Agile, and I know a lot of CIOs that I talk to are trying to reconcile the impedance mismatch between Agile and Sprints, and being opportunistic and recognizing when something isn't working, and the CFO who's still talking about annualized releases of money. So I've always felt that you could not reconcile those. You could not bring those two points of view forward without EPM. Are you seeing that as well and how are you helping it? >> Yeah, we're definitely seeing this because this older, you're absolutely right. The old notion of let's make a budget once a year, get it right, and execute on it for the rest of the year, we are seeing that seeing that fading really fast. What people are saying is, look, plans are made only to be changed. Let's not fixate on getting the perfect plan in place. Let's start with a reasonable plan with the assumption that it's going to tweak and iterate and change many, many times over the year. So the focus is now on, less on getting it right the first time, more on how do we make dynamic changes to it in an agile fashion, just to your point. >> And reflect those changes throughout the entire cost-- >> And into finances-- >> Back into finance. >> It all comes back to finance. >> It comes back to finance because at the end of the day, let's say, take a simple example of a manufacturing company-- >> Paul: Finance is the language of business. It still is. >> End of the day, your business performance is measured in dollars and cents. I mean, period, right? So, let's say, your product mix changes because your customer demand is changing. That needs to be reflected back into finance, in terms of, okay, are we making more money or less money? Is it more revenue or less revenue? That needs to be reflected back, and so we're definitely seeing, in fact, the tagline for Enterprise Performance Management that we use these days is enabling business agility. So two parts to that, driving agile decisions, to your point, the second is, once you drive those agile decisions. Let's say I decided to expand into a new business and I did an acquisition. Fast forward six months, you need to reflect the results of that combined entity into your financial results, do it quickly, do it in a way that is correct and you're confident about the results and that's the job of finance. So it's agility of operations, agility in decision making, those two have to sort of come together. >> So here's my question then. I love this conversation because I think this speaks to the full-closed loop of Cloud and DevOps and the innovation around Agile. How much flexibility is built into the software, and I'm kind of going with the database route for a second, systems of records, schemas in database 'cause business plans can say it once a year and it's failing, I agree, I can see that failing. But, also, fixed schemas, can fail too. Well, I don't want to add the new data in 'cause the database can't handle it. I've heard that from developers before. Again, it slows the things down, so as you move from systems of record, which can be fixed and tweaked, the engagement data is the business engagement gestures. So how is that factoring into your software? You guys see that and is this AI Bot revolution and the machine learning, the smart software after engagement. Can you thread that through and explain how that fits? >> Let's start simple and sort of get a little more sophisticated quickly. The first things is we are seeing a lot more people come into the planning process than before. The old model was finance did the planning for other people. Now, people are doing their own plans, then sort of feeding it into the overall plan. People intentionally are pushing that because they want plans and decisions to be made closer to the point of action. Secondly, there is a greatest emphasis on driving fact-based decisions. For instance, we are working with some large consumer goods companies where they are saying, look, don't come here and tell me that I'm going to spend 10% less on this large line item compared to last year, Throw the last year's budget out and do a zero-based budget. I mean, zero-based budgeting is not a new concept. It's been around, but it's getting a new lease of life because in industries where profits are on the squeeze, they are saying "Look, I don't want "to do the traditional budgeting. "I want to go to a zero-based budget." >> Because they get facts that are surfacing faster. Is that kind of the premise? >> Facts, but more over to the performance of the business. >> That is definitely true. The facts that are surfacing faster, and, therefore, I want to give the tools to make use of those facts to the people who are closer to where they are surfacing. >> John: This is a digitized business in that scenario. >> Definitely true. >> Everything's instrumented. >> Good value. >> Hari: Yeah, definitely true. >> We always say on The Cube, I mean, this is the first time in the history of business in the world that you can actually measure everything. >> That is absolutely true. >> If you want to measure everything, you actually can do it. >> That is absolutely true. >> Now the CFO, which was once the measurement system, has to get integrated in. Am I getting this right? >> You are getting this right. You are getting this right. And the other part of your question is about okay, how is intelligence coming into, so some of these decisions over time, if you see a pattern, they can be perhaps automated. Plan adjustments can be, maybe some elements of plan adjustments can be automated, but I don't see finance going that far. That may be taken as an input. Maybe a recommendation comes from automated intelligence, and people will sort of take a look at it and say, "Hey, I want to go with this because it makes sense, "or I'm going to override it this way "because this doesn't take into account "what I'm planning for in the next quarter." >> Yeah, what scares me, though, in the whole bot thing, I mean, this is not a dis on Larik, I love the vision, it's got me all excited, is if they try to get too AI before they actually build the building blocks, they really can get ahead of themselves. So, you can see that head room, for sure, but a lot of companies are kind of in that planing mode. Is that true? What's this progress bar of customers right now who are into this, are in the software? I mean, track bots are great for certain things, but you can't really automate AI yet and everything. Or can you? >> I think there is probably a class of decisions that can be automated, but when it comes to finance, and finance tends to be conservative and for good reason, they definitely see the value of recommendations based on data, based on real-time data, but they still want to have the controls. >> [John} Got It. >> So that's kind of the mindset that we have seen. >> So real options valuations could really, really be helped by AI. But at the end of the day, you have to be able to close the books, and you don't need AI to help you close the books. >> This is a fascinating conversation. >> If I can add one quick conversation, just a quick point, as Enterprise Performance Management starts to weave its way into other parts of the business, institutionally, does that mean we're going to see controllers start to end up in different functions? >> Hari: (laughs) IOD of controllers? >> As a human interface that goes along with the system so that it works together. >> It's a definite possibility, right? Because if you're planning as rigorously in marketing as in finance and if you aremeasuring and reporting as rigorously in sales as you're doing in finance, maybe there's a sales controller function that becomes a legitimate need. But at the end of the day, today, you focus so much attention on reporting your numbers to the street. You focus attention on precision and accuracy and confidence in all of that. Why is that not a requirement for internal Reporting? >> It's the same argument when we talk about the technology of a structure. You move the computer to where the data is. You could move the controller where the action is, to your point earlier. It's a fascinating conversation, Hari. Thanks for sharing the insight. Love to do a follow-up on this because I think this really connects the language of business and kind of validates the digital fabric of digitization. But quick, I want to give you the last minute to give an update on the business, how you guys are doing. This is a pretty big deal. How's your business results, what's down the roadmap, what's the sales going to be like next month? I'm only kidding, I know. (all laugh) >> Sure, sure. I think the cloud has been a really game changer in this business. What the cloud has done has lowered the bar where we're seeing many mid-sized businesses start using Performance Management best practices, just like larger companies. We are seeing divisions or functions inside of larger businesses using Performance Management software for the first time. So there's a big market expansion, and we are seeing an expansion across other lines of businesses outside of finance. We are certainly seeing that. We are seeing that, you know, we introduced our first Cloud software in Enterprise Performance Management about two and a half years ago. At that time, we were not sure how the market update was going to be because we said finance tends to be conservative. Are they going to be comfortable doing their aggregated planning in the cloud, or are they going to be comfortable doing, reporting things in the cloud? We've been sort of pleasantly surprised by the willingness of finance, helped in part by the success the companies have had in deploying HR software in the cloud or CRM software in the cloud and so on. So the cloud has taken off. We have well north of 1,000 customers that have picked up EPM software in the cloud. We are very happy to see 100, 150 deployments go live every quarter, and we are seeing use cases in marketing, we are seeing use cases in HR of strategic workforce planning or marketing spend planning happened using EPM-style software. So, happy to see mid-sized businesses see real value from planning. >> John: Good integration capabilities? >> Good integration, I'm glad you mentioned it. Very good integration back into, for example, if you have financials in the cloud and EPM in the cloud, there are nice linkages between the two. So four teams are very important to us. We are seeing pervasive use of EPM software. We are seeing agile operations helped by EPM software in the cloud. We are seeing connected operations, whether it's the backbone systems or across functions. And we are seeing people take a sort of a comprehensive view of this, whether it's across functions or across processes. >> This is fascinating. We could go another hour. This is a really interesting topic because I think it really highlights a fact that, what we always say in The Cube is, you can provision technology faster and you get time to value certainly as the customers start to be creative and implement it. They get to actually put it to work and get the data around and behind. So thanks so much for spending the time on the insights on the EPM. We appreciate it, thank you so much. >> Thank you, I enjoyed the conversation. >> Okay, you're watching The Cube, live coverage here in San Francisco at Oracle OpenWorld 2016. I'm John Ferrier with Peter Burris. Thanks for watching. (upbeat synth music)

>> Narrator: Live, from San Francisco. It's the CUBE. Covering Oracle Open World 2016. Brought to you by Oracle. Now, here's your host: John Furrier and Peter Burris. (Music) (Background Noise) >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here, live at Oracle OpenWorld 2016. This is SiliconANGLE Media, it's The CUBE. Our flagship program, we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the co-CEO of SiliconANGLE, with Peter Burris, head of research for SiliconANGLE Media, as well as General Manager of Wikibon Research. Our next guest, I'm excited to have him back because he's a product guy and we love to go deep into the products. CUBE alumni, Juan Loaiza Senior Vice President of Database Technologies, veteran of Oracle, welcome back to The CUBE. Great to see you. >> Thanks, great to be here. >> Love talking to the product guys on the development side because we get to go deep into the road map. And we're going to try to get as much information out of you as possible. But you'll do your best to hold back, like you did last year. Only kidding. >> I know. (laughter) >> Okay no. >> You must have me confused with somebody else. (laughter) >> Maybe that was Larry Ellison, well he hasn't been on yet. Larry, we'll get you on. >> He's not so good at holding back either. (laughter) >> That's why we don't let him on. That's why they won't let him on, I think. That's, Larry would be too comfortable in The CUBE. No, in all seriousness, joking aside, the hottest areas right now is in your wheel house. Engineered systems, which is going to be a real enabler for Oracle on the performance side. And as you make your own chips, ZF SPARC and Exodeum All this other cool stuff is going to go faster, faster, faster, lower cost, higher performance. The database... >> Better security. Better availability. >> Security, I mean. Amazing stuff. But the database is where the crown jewel is for Oracle, always has been. Before you put Web Logic on it, make it sticky. But now you've got the cloud. The cloud is a environment for great opportunity for the database, business and other databases, some Oracle, some not Oracle. What's going on with the database and the Cloud? Can you take a minute to explain the current situation? >> Yeah, so that's a big question. (laughter) What's going on? So what do you want to start with database or do you want to start out with the Cloud? >> John: Let's start with the database. What's going on with the database? And what does that mean for customers as it moves to the cloud? >> Yeah. So, database we're in the process of releasing our next big database. We don't release databases very often. It only really happens every few years. It's a very big deal. So, what we're trying to do with our next generation database is modernize the whole infrastructure, adjust to a lot of the big transformations that are happening in the marketplace. So among those are things like big data. Where do we go with big data? So, with our new generation database we're making big database and database work seamlessly together. So we have something called big data SOQL, where we can query data regardless of whether it's in Hadoop, NoSQL, Oracle. It's completely transparent. So customers no longer have these silos of information. Another big thing in database is datatype search engine. So new generation wanted JSON, it's called JSON, which is a new data format, so it's used in javascripts. So web developers develop in javascript. They represent data in JSON. And then they say, hey. I don't want to take my JSON data and convert it to relational data. It's a big pain. >> John: True. So, one of the things we've done in our new generation 12-step database was say, hey. Take that JSON, we'll put that directly into the database. We'll allow it to be queried. We'll make it highly available >> John: Without a schema. Without any kind of a schema, >> Nothing. >> just throw it in there unstructured. >> Juan: Just throw it in there. That's right. So we've made it very simple for new-age developers to use JSON with databases. That's another really big thing that's happening. >> So tell us what, just let's double down on that for a second. JSON has been a big trend in API based systems, lot of abilities in JSON endpoints. For user experience, whether it's mobile or web, very prevalent now. Pretty much standard. >> Juan: Yes. >> How does that get rendered itself from a customer's perspective? Are you saying that Oracle will just onboard it into the database itself? Or is it a separate product? Or is it, I mean... >> - [Juan] Directly into the data. So we have native JSON directly into the data. We've essentially added JSON as a datatype. We've added the sequel, we have SOQL extensions. You can access JSON like an index... >> John: So, I can run in single queries on JSON? >> You can, exactly right. You can very simply run SOQL queries on JSON. >> And what's the impact to the customer? >> Juan: And all the stuff that comes with that. >> John: And what does that solve? What problem does that solve? >> It solves two problems. One is, people like that datatype. So new-age developers, they're writing in javascript. They have JSON and they just want to use it. So they don't have to convert it. >> John: Which by the way, everyone's running in javascripts. >> Right, that's right. That's the big programming language. And the other thing is unstructured data. So, data that's not structured initially, that every piece of data has its own structure. So it's a representation for saying, that dynamic, unstructured representation that's very standard in the industry. A little bit like XML used to be before. JSON is kind of the new XML, the new-age XML. >> John: Yeah, that's true. How about the data lay concept? Because Hadoop as a market, just didn't make it, right? I mean, it's out, Hadoop is out there >> Juan: Yes. SPARC is certainly relevant because you have, you know, that kind of use space and memory and faster processing. But the real power is that that a batch oriented data set. As things like Hadoop and SPARC evolve, how does that relate to Oracle's product road map? >> Juan: Yeah, so we have our own Hadoop big data plans, where we run a cloudera-based Hadoop product and what we're trying to do is make those work seamlessly with existing databases. So there's certain kinds of workload and applications that hadoop is really good for. You know, kind of a frivolous example is if you want to find cats in pictures, you're not going to do that with an Oracle database. So you know, here's a billion pictures. Find all the pictures that contain cats. Not a good application for Oracle, right? On the other hand, if you're running analytic queries against relational data that's perfect for Oracle. So we see that these technologies can coexist. So there's certain kinds of applications that are really good for that dual kind of work. Or that certain kind of applications are really good for relational. And what we need to do is make sure that these things run seamlessly. >> John: What's the glue between those two layers? >> Peter: Well that's just it, there's even more applications where they're going to want to use both. >> That's right. That's right. We can't, >> So, what's the glue? >> Eventually everyone goes to both, right? >> Peter: Yeah, so what's the glue? What is that glue? >> Well, there's a number of glues that we built. Which is, one is called big data SOQL. It lets you query seamlessly across them. We also have connectors that let you move data seamlessly between them. So, those are kind of the main glues between them. >> So one of the things that we've observed is that, to John's point, there's been a lot more downloads of hadoop than we've seen go into production. It's become a very, very complex ecosystem and it's got some limitations, batch-oriented, et cetera. The challenge that businesses have is that they try to run pilots around hadoop, because they find themselves piloting the hardware, hadoop, the clusters, all the way up to the use case. And a lot of times they end up failing. How does something like the big data pliers facilitate piloting? Because it looks like it should reduce the complexity of the infrastructure and give people the opportunity to spend more time on the use case. >> I mean, you've got it exactly right. Which is, you know, there's some people that are hobbyists. Right, like there's people that want to build their own log cabins. They want to cut their own trees, kind of build their own planks and put together their log cabin. And that's kind of how hadoop started. It was kind of a hobbyist model, right? And hadoop has kind of moved to the next level. Now, it's people that want to get stuff done. And it's like, I don't want to chop trees. You know, I want to be living in a, just give me a house. >> John: Well actually, I wouldn't say hobbyist. I mean Yahoo had a need, they needed log cabins. >> Right. >> So they built one. You know, but it was a use case. The web scaler guys needed an unstructured... >> Right. >> It has to be scalable. >> But a lot of people are very much, kind of thinking build your own. So now a lot of people want a solution. They're like, you know, I don't want to be building this. So that's where big data plans come in. Because it's a complete solution. It includes the hardware, it's been pre-tubed, pre-optimized. It includes the cloudera software. It includes all our connectors and it includes support for the whole thing. Because that's the other part. You know when you put together your own house, who are you going to call when it leaks? Right? You're on your own when it leaks. If Oracle puts it together, we can support the entire staff when you have any kind of issue, any kind of problem. And that's the kind of stuff enterprises want. It's not a hobby anymore once it becomes an enterprise >> Peter: So given that we're in a big data universe right now, where we've got use case that are proliferating very fast and we have limited experience about them. But the technologies underlying that we're deploying to build those use cases are also proliferating very fast. Is it going to be possible for the open source model that presumes downloads, try buy, not sales people, not a lot of learning, not a lot of hand-holding to make it possible to fix that whole thing or make it all come together? Or is a company like Oracle going to have to step in and take some responsibility for guiding how the market evolves? >> Yes, so open source and Oracle can work together. I mean, we have Lennox distributions. We own MYSOQL. So Oracle and Open Source is... >> Peter: You're not at odds. >> That's right. We, in fact, are one of the major Open Source companies in the world. But you know, like I said, real businesses are in it as a hobby. They want a solution. They're looking at this as a tool. And a lot of times they want somebody that can support it, that can physically assure that it's going to work for them. And they have someone they can call. It's not just hey, I'm going to post a message on a message board and hope that somebody responds. Right? I mean when you have, you know, airplanes in the air. when you have, you know, dollars flying across the network. You need a solution. You need somebody you can call and you can guarantee is going to solve the problem. And also that can ensure that the technology moves in the right direction, takes into account what users want. And that, you know, a certain level of quality and assurance is built into it. >> Peter: So let's build on that. When you look at the future of database, what do you see? >> Juan: Well, there's a lot of different, so database is in a very big change. There's some big changes happening in the database world right now. More than probably ever before. One that we've been kind of talking about is sort of this big data hadoop. Another thing is JSON. Another area is in-memory is a very big change that is happening in databases. The whole moving into in-memory, into these different kinds of formats. Along with that, Oracle is pioneering moving database algorithms directly into the chips. The chip technology, to make it run dramatically faster, to make it more available, make it more secure. That's another big thing. Building multitenancy directly into the database, that's another big area that Oracle is pioneering. Instead of having it, kind of cloudify the database directly, negatively inside the database. Another big area that we've been working on is putting native sharding of databases directly into the database. >> How about data protection? >> Well that's in the multitenancy, right? Take me through the multitenancy a little bit. How does multitenancy inside the database going to work? >> Well, okay. So that's what we call our multitenant database. It's a little bit like VM. So, Vms say, hey it looks like I have a physical machine. But in fact I have a fraction of a machine. It looks like, it looks to me like a physical machine. In fact, it's a virtual machine. >> Peter: Okay. >> We're doing the same kind of thing with the database. So it looks like I have a physical database to the application. But in fact, you're sharing a database among many users. So what is the advantage of that? The advantage of that is we don't have one database. Or thousands of databases anymore. So many of our customers have deployed thousands of databases. It becomes a huge maintenance headache to have thousands of databases. Especially in today's security world where you have to constantly patch and update these things. You can't just kind of leave them alone anymore. So if you have a small number of physical databases and lots of virtual databases it completely saves costs. It's more agile. Opex lower. Capex lower. That's the new world of multitenant cloud data. >> John: Also it's brand new with appliances. And I want to get your thoughts on last year the big range that I liked was this zero data loss >> Recovery plan, yes >> ZDLRA. >> Juan: That's right. You got it right. >> What's the, I mean very fascinating, basically zero data loss. >> Peter: It's cool technology. >> Juan: Yes. So what is, is that still on the, out there? What's going on with that? >> Zero data loss and recovery parts is our fastest growing appliance right now. >> John: It is? >> Yes. Easily. It's been very well received by the market. We have some of the biggest banks now, running it. Financial institutions, retailers. Why? Because its a very simple value proposition. Which is, hey I want to protect my data in a way that it's constantly protected that I don't lose any data. In a way that is scalable. In a way that offloads my production database. It's a very simple... >> That's a grace saving situation, right? So like the people that have these security breaches, is this where that fits? Where's the use case for ZDLRA? >> ZDLRA is not security, it's about availability. >> John: Okay, so if someone basically shuts the data center down. >> Right. If that database becomes corrupted... >> John: In one region. >> If there's some natural disaster. If there's a bomb. If there's a whatever. Is my data protected? Will I lose anything? Nobody can afford to lose data anymore. In the old days, when you did a backup, you did a nightly backup and then if something happened, then you'd restore it. Well guess what? That doesn't work anymore. We're too dependent. So, nobody wants to lose their airline records. Nobody wants to lose their bank records. Nobody wants to lose their retail records. We can't afford to lose data anymore. We need a solution that's zero data loss. >> I'm surprised aren't, there's not more fanfare at the show about that. I was really impressed last year I'm glad to hear it's doing well. Containers. Database containers. >> Juan: Yes. This is something that we talked about a little bit last time. >> Juan: That's the same as multitenants. >> Okay. That's multitenancy. >> Juan: It's different terminology for that. >> okay, now cloud based databases. Now we get to the cloud. Where does all this go to the cloud. >> Okay, so you know traditionally customers deployed on premeses. what we're doing now is we're taking the Oracle database that we've developed the last 40 years. It's the most sophisticated database in the world. And we're moving it onto the cloud. So what does the customer get? They get, they can provision it instantly. So you go onto our website and say I want a database. Here's the size. Here's the number of CPUs I want. Boom. They get it. They pay monthly instead of paying upfront. They don't pay for the licenses. They just pay us a monthly fee. And then Oracle operates the whole thing. It's like, I don't want manage it. I just want to use it. So that's the benefit of the cloud. I go somewhere. I need a database. I get it right away. I don't have to mess with it. And I pay monthly. >> John: So the Oracle, on your Oracle cloud you would then deploy all those other goodness, ZDLRA, all the other technology >> Juan: All that stuff, yes. (crosstalk) behind the curtain, so to speak. >> Juan: So we have a range of offerings in our cloud. So we have a regular database service. We have an enterprise service. And then we have a high end service, an exit data cloud service, right? >> That runs our exit data. Super fast, super available. And then we have something called exit data express, which is the lowest cost cloud database in the world. So we have kind of three things, depending on what the customer wants. They want a smaller database for really low cost. They want a super mission critical, high performance database or they kind of want something in the middle. So we span the whole range. And, by the way, our high end is higher than anybody else. Our low end is lower cost than anybody else. So we span a bigger range than anyone else. >> You know Juan, next year we need to get an hour with you. >> Juan: Yes. >> To cover all the... >> Juan: It's a lot of topics. >> No. You're a great guest. And you have a lot of experience and a lot of, and we appreciate the insight. I'll give you the final word, I want to get one more answer out of you because you're awesome. You're sharing great insight. For the folks watching, what's the one thing or one or two, three things they should know about Oracle, Cloud, the technology, the database? The things going on at Oracle that they may not be hearing about it could be the best selling things. Something that's not on the main stream press reporting. >> Well, you know our Oracle cloud is pretty simple. I mean, the main thing to understand is that it's 100% compatible with databases on premises. So it's very easy to move workloads back and forth. That's the main thing. And the other thing is, we are, we use the exact same infrastructure. So we've been developing, for example, our exit data product, which is kind of the precursor to cloud. It's a very specialized database system run on premises. And now we're running that in the cloud. So again, the customer can get the exact same thing. And our latest offering is cloud at customer. So we take those same cloud attributes and we can put them >> John: It's the cloud machine, right? >> inside the customer database. >> Juan: Yeah, so we have a cloud machine, an exelated cloud machine, and a big data cloud machine. >> John: So customers get all the choices of Oracle. >> That's right. So the customer has full choice, they can move to the cloud if and when they want at the speed they want. They can move back and forth. They can do disaster recovery in the cloud. They can do backup in the cloud. They can do development in the cloud. So all these range of offerings, all these range of choices are now the customers. >> So true or false? Larry Ellison is the master at the long game? >> Juan: Larry thinks long term, absolutely. >> John: Of course, true. >> Yes, absolutely. He's brilliant and he's shown it over and over again. >> I agree, big fan. Yesterday's key note, Larry could've done better. But he was too busy getting all those announcements out that he was mailing in at the end. It was so many announcements. >> Juan: It's hard these days because Oracle, there's so much happening at Oracle. There's so much happening at Oracle. Juan, Thanks so much for spending your valuable time with us at the CUBE, we really appreciate it. This is SiliconANGLE Media's The CUBE. We go out to the events I'm John Furrier, Juan Loaiza Senior Vice President Juan Laoiza, Senior Vice President of Database Platform Services. Live in San Francisco. We'll be right back. (Music)

Yeah, I'm Aala, They're the co-founder back to back. This is the cube silicon angle.com, Silicon angle dot TV's production of the cube, our flagship telecasts. We go out to the event. That was a great conversation. I was really just, just cool. I could have, we could have probably hit on a few more things, obviously well read. Awesome. Co-founder of Cloudera a. You were, you did a good job teaming up with that co-founder, huh? Not bad on the cube, huh? He's not bad on the cube, isn't he? He, >>He reads the internet. >>That's what I'm saying. >>Anything is going on. >>He's a cube star, you know, And >>Technology. Jeff knows it. Yeah. >>We, we tell you, I'm smarter just by being in Cloudera all those years. And I actually was following what he was saying, Sad and didn't dust my brain. So, Okay, so you're back. So we were talking earlier with Michaels and about the relational database thing. So I kind of pick that up where we left off with you around, you know, he was really excited. It's like, you know, hey, we saw that relational database movement happen. He was part of that. Yeah, yeah. That generation. And then, but things were happening or kind of happening the same way in a similar way, still early. So I was trying to really peg with him, how early are we, like, so, you know, as the curve, you know, this is 1400, it's not the Javit Center yet. Maybe the Duke world, you know, next year might be at the Javit Center, 35,000 just don't go to Vegas. So I'm trying to figure out where we are on that curve. Yeah. And we on the upwards slope, you know, down here, not even hitting that, >>I think, I think, I think we're moving up quicker than previous waves. And actually if you, if you look for example, Oracle, I think it took them 15, 20 years until they, they really became a mature company, VM VMware, which started about, what, 12, 13 years ago. It took them about maybe eight years to, to be a big company, met your company, and I'm hoping we're gonna do it in five. So a couple more years. >>Highly accelerated. >>Yes. But yeah, we see, I mean, I'm, I'm, I've been surprised by the growth. I have been, Right? I've been told, warned about enterprise software and, and that it takes long for production to take place. >>But the consumerization trend is really changing that. I mean, it seems to be that, yeah, the enterprises always last. Why the shorter >>Cycle? I think the shorter cycle is coming from having the, the, the, the right solution for the right problem at the right time. I think that's a big part of it. So luck definitely is a big part of this. Now, in terms of why this is changing compared to a couple of dec decades ago, why the adoption is changing compared to a couple of decades ago. I, I think that's coming just because of how quickly the technology itself, the underlying hardware is evolving. So right now, the fact that you can buy a single server and it has eight cores to 16 cores has 12 hards to terabytes. Each is, is something that's just pushing the, the, the, the limits what you can do with the existing systems and hence making it more likely for new systems to disrupt them. >>Yeah. We can talk about a lot. It's very easy for people to actually start a, a big data >>Project. >>Yes. For >>Example. Yes. And the hardest part is, okay, what, what do I really, what problem do I need to solve? How am I gonna, how am I gonna monetize it? Right? Those are the hard parts. It's not the, not the underlying >>Technology. Yes, Yes, that's true. That's true. I mean, >>You're saying, eh, you're saying >>Because, because I'm seeing both so much. I'm, I'm seeing both. I'm seeing both. And like, I'm seeing cases where you're right. There's some companies that was like, Oh, this Hadoop thing is so cool. What problem can I solve with it? And I see other companies, like, I have this huge problem and, and, and they don't know that HA exists. It's so, And once they know, they just jump on it right away. It's like, we know when you have a headache and you're searching for the medicine in Espin. Wow. It >>Works. I was talking to Jeff Hiba before he came on stage and, and I didn't even get to it cuz we were so on a nice riff there. Right. Bunch of like a musicians playing the guitar together. But like he, we talked about the it and and dynamics and he said something that I thoughts right. On money and SAP is talking the same thing and said they're going to the lines of business. Yes. Because it is the gatekeeper that's, it's like selling mini computers to a mainframe selling client servers from a mini computer team. Yeah. >>There's not, we're seeing, we're seeing both as well. So more likely the, the former one meaning, meaning that yes, line of business and departments, they adopt the technology and then it comes in and they see there's already these five different departments having it and they think, okay, now we need to formalize this across the organization. >>So what happens then? What are you seeing out there? Like when that happens, that mean people get their hands on, Hey, we got a problem to solve. Yeah. Is that what it comes down to? Well, Hadoop exist. Go get Hadoop. Oh yeah. They plop it in there and I what does it do? They, >>So they pop it into their, in their own installation or on the, on the cloud and they show that this actually is working and solving the problem for them. Yeah. And when that happens, it's a very, it's a very easy adoption from there on because they just go tell it, We need this right now because it's solving this problem and it's gonna make, make us much >>More money moving it right in. Yes. No problems. >>Is is that another reason why the cycle's compressed? I mean, you know, you think client server, there was a lot of resistance from it and now it's more much, Same thing with mobile. I mean mobile is flipped, right? I mean, so okay, bring it in. We gotta deal with it. Yep. I would think the same thing. We, we have a data problem. Let's turn it into an >>Opportunity. Yeah. In my, and it goes back to what I said earlier, the right solution for the right problem at the right time. Like when they, when you have larger amounts of unstructured data, there isn't anything else out there that can even touch what had, can >>Do. So Amar, I need to just change gears here a minute. The gaming stuff. So we have, we we're featured on justin.tv right now on the front page. Oh wow. But the numbers aren't coming in because there's a competing stream of a recently released Modern Warfare three feature. Yes. Yes. So >>I was looking for, we >>Have to compete with Modern Warfare three. So can you, can we talk about Modern Warfare three for a minute and share the folks what you think of the current version, if any, if you played it. Yeah. So >>Unfortunately I'm waiting to get back home. I don't have my Xbox with me here. >>A little like a, I'm talking about >>My lines and business. >>Boom. Water warfares like a Christmas >>Tree here. Sorry. You know, I love, I'm a big gamer. I'm a big video gamer at Cloudera. We have every Thursday at five 30 end office, we, we play Call of of Beauty version four, which is modern world form one actually. And I challenge, I challenge people out there to come challenge our team. Just ping me on Twitter and we'll, we'll do a Cloudera versus >>Let's, let's, let's reframe that. Let team out. There am Abalas company. This is the geeks that invent the future. Jeff Haer Baer at Facebook now at Cloudera. Hammerer leading the charge. These guys are at gamers. So all the young gamers out there am are saying they're gonna challenge you. At which version? >>Modern Warfare one. >>Modern Warfare one. Yes. How do they fire in? Can you set up an >>External We'll >>We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Okay. >>Yeah. Just p me on Twitter and We'll, >>We can carry it live actually we can stream that. Yeah, >>That'd be great. >>Great. >>Yeah. So I'll tell you some of our best Hadooop committers and Hadoop developers pitch >>A picture. Modern Warfare >>Three going now Model Warfare three. Very excited about the game. I saw the, the trailers for it looks, graphics look just amazing. Graphics are amazing. I love the Sirius since the first one that came out. And I'm looking forward to getting back home to playing the game. >>I can't play, my son won't let me play. I'm such a fumbler with the Hub. I'm a keyboard controller. I can't work the Xbox controller. Oh, I have a coordination problem my age and I'm just a gluts and like, like Dad, sorry, Charity's over. I can I play with my friends? You the box. But I'm around big gamer. >>But, but in terms of, I mean, something I wanted to bring up is how to link up gaming with big data and analysis and so on. So like, I, I'm a big gamer. I love playing games, but at the same time, whenever I play games, I feel a little bit guilty because it's kind of like wasted time. So it's like, I mean, yeah, it's fun and I'm getting lots of enjoyment on it makes my life much more cheerful. But still, how can we harness all of this, all of these hours that gamers spend playing a game like Modern Warfare three, How can we, how can we collect instrument, all of the data that's coming from that and coming up, for example, with something useful with predicted. >>This is exactly, this is exactly the kind of application that's mainstream is gaming. Yeah. Yeah. Danny at Riot G is telling me, we saw him at Oracle Open World. He's up there for the Java one. He said that they, they don't really have a big data platform and their business is about understanding user behavior rep tons of data about user playing time, who they're playing with. Yeah, Yeah. How they want us to get into currency trading, You know, >>Buy, I can't, I can't mention the names, but some of the biggest giving companies out there are using Hadoop right now. And, and depending on CDH for doing exactly that kind of thing, creating >>A good user experience >>Today, they're doing it for the purpose of enhancing the user experience and improving retention. So they do track everything. Like every single bullet, you fire everything in best Ball Head, you get everything home run, you do. And, and, and in, in a three >>Type of game consecutive headshot, you get >>Everything, everything is being Yeah. Headshot you get and so on. But, but as you said, they are using that information today to sell more products and, and, and retain their users. Now what I'm suggesting is that how can you harness that energy for the good as well? I mean for making money, money is good and everything, but how can you harness that for doing something useful so that all of this entertainment time is also actually productive time as well. I think that'd be a holy grail in this, in this environment if we >>Can achieve that. Yeah. It used to be that corn used to be the telegraph of the future of about, of applications, but gaming really is, if you look at gaming, you know, you get the headset on. It's a collaborative environment. Oh yeah. You got unified communications. >>Yeah. And you see our teenager kids, how, how many hours they spend on these things. >>You got play as a play environments, very social collaborative. Yeah. You know, some say, you know, we we're saying, what I'm saying is that that's the, that's the future work environment with Skype evolving. We're our multiplayer game's called our job. Right? Yeah. You know, so I'm big on gaming. So all the gamers out there, a has challenged you. Yeah. Got a big data example. What else are we seeing? So let's talk about the, the software. So we, one of the things you were talking about that I really liked, you were going down the list. So on Mike's slide he had all the new features. So around the core, can you just go down the core and rattle off your version of what, what it means and what it is. So you start off with say H Base, we talked about that already. What are the other ones that are out there? >>So the projects that we have right there, >>The projects that are around those tools that are being built. Cause >>Yeah, so the foundational, the foundational one as we mentioned before, is sdfs for storage map use for processing. Yeah. And then the, the immediate layer above that is how to make MAP reduce easier for the masses. So how can, not everybody knows how to learn map, use Java, everybody knows sql, right? So, so one of the most successful projects right now that has the highest attach rate, meaning people usually when they install had do installed as well is Hive. So Hive takes sequel and so Jeff Harm Becker, my co-founder, when he was at Facebook, his team built the Hive system. Essentially Hive takes sql so you don't have to learn a new language, you already know sql. And then converts that into MAP use for you. That not only expands the developer base for how many people can use adu, but also makes it easier to integrate Hadoop through all DBC and JDBC integrated with BI tools like MicroStrategy and Tableau and Informatica, et cetera, et cetera. >>You mentioned R too. You mentioned R Program R >>As well. Yeah, R is one of our best partnerships. We're very, very happy with them. So that's, that's one of the very key projects is Hive assisted project to Hive ISS called Pig. A pig Latin is a language that ya invented that you have to learn the language. It's very easy, it's very easy to learn compared to map produce. But once you learn it, you can, you can specify very deep data pipelines, right? SQL is good for queries. It's not good for data pipelines because it becomes very convoluted. It becomes very hard for the, the human brain to understand it. So Pig is much more natural to the human. It's more like Pearl very similar to scripting kind of languages. So with Peggy can write very, very long data pipelines, again, very successful projects doing very, very well. Another key project is Edge Base, like you said. So Edge Base allows you to do low latencies. So you can do very, very quick lookups and also allows you to do transactions. So you can do updates in inserts and deletes. So one of the talks here that had World we try to recommend people watch when the videos come out is the Talk by Jonathan Gray from Facebook. And he talked about how they use Edge Base, >>Jonathan, something on here in the Cube later. Yeah. So >>Drill him on that. So they use Edge Base now for many, many things within Facebook. They have a big team now committed to building an improving edge base with us and with the community at large. And they're using it for doing their online messaging system. The live mail system in Facebook is powered by Edge Base right now. Again, Pro and eBay, The Casini project, they gave a keynote earlier today at the conference as well is using Edge Base as well. So Edge Base is definitely one of the projects that's growing very, very quickly right now within the Hudu system. Another key project that Jeff alluded to earlier when he was on here is Flum. So Flume is very instrumental because you have this nice system had, but Hadoop is useless unless you have data inside it. So how do you get the data inside do? >>So Flum essentially is this very nice framework for having these agents all over your infrastructure, inside your web servers, inside your application servers, inside your mobile devices, your network equipment that collects all of that data and then reliably and, and materializes it inside Hado. So Flum does that. Another good project is Uzi, so many of them, I dunno how, how long you want me to keep going here, But, but Uzi is great. Uzi is a workflow processing system. So Uzi allows you to define a series of jobs. Some of them in Pig, some of them in Hive, some of them in map use. You can define a series of them and then link them to each other and say, only start this job when these other jobs, two jobs finish because I'm waiting for the input from them before I can kick off and so on. >>So Uzi is a very nice framework that will will do that. We'll manage the whole graph of jobs for you and retry things when they fail, et cetera, et cetera. Another good project is where W H I R R and where allows you to very easily start ADU cluster on top of Amazon. Easy two on top of Rackspace, virtualized environ. It's more for kicking off, it's for kicking off Hadoop instances or edge based instances on any virtual infrastructure. Okay. VMware, vCloud. So that it supports all of the major vCloud, sorry, all of the me, all of the major virtualized infrastructure systems out there, Eucalyptus as well, and so on. So that's where W H I R R ARU is another key project. It's one, it's duck cutting's main kind of project right now. Don of that gut cutting came on stage with you guys has, So Aru ARO is a project about how do we encode with our files, the schema of these files, right? >>Because when you open up a text file and you don't know how to what the columns mean and how to pars it, it becomes very hard to work for it. So ARU allows you to do that much more easily. It's also useful for doing rrp. We call rtc remove procedure calls for having different services talk to each other. ARO is very useful for that as well. And the list keeps going on and on Maha. Yeah. Which we just, thanks for me for reminding me of my house. We just added Maha very recently actually. What is that >>Adam? I'm not >>Familiar with it. So Maha is a data mining library. So MAHA takes some of the most popular data mining algorithms for doing clustering and regression and statistical modeling and implements them using the map map with use model. >>They have, they have machine learning in it too or Yes, yes. So that's the machine learning. >>So, So yes. Stay vector to machines and so on. >>What Scoop? >>So Scoop, you know, all of them. Thanks for feeding me all the names. >>The ones I don't understand, >>But there's so many of them, right? I can't even remember all of them. So Scoop actually is a very interesting project, is short for SQL to Hadoop, hence the name Scoop, right? So SQ from SQL and Oops from Hadoop and also means Scoop as in scooping up stuff when you scoop up ice cream. Yeah. And the idea for Scoop is to make it easy to move data between relational systems like Oracle metadata and it is a vertical and so on and Hadoop. So you can very simply say, Scoop the name of the table inside the relation system, the name of the file inside Hadoop. And the, the table will be copied over to the file and Vice and Versa can say Scoop the name of the file in Hadoop, the name of the table over there, it'll move the table over there. So it's a connectivity tool between the relational world and the Hadoop world. >>Great, great tutorial. >>And all of these are Apache projects. They're all projects built. >>It's not part of your, your unique proprietary. >>Yes. But >>These are things that you've been contributing >>To, We're contributing to the whole ecosystem. Yes. >>And you understand very well. Yes. And >>And contribute to your knowledge of the marketplace >>And Absolutely. We collaborate with the, with the community on creating these projects. We employ committers and founders for many of these projects. Like Duck Cutting, the founder of He works in Cloudera, the founder for that UIE project. He works at Calera for zookeeper works at Calera. So we have a number of them on stuff >>Work. So we had Aroon from Horton Works. Yes. And and it was really good because I tell you, I walk away from that conversation and I gotta say for the folks out there, there really isn't a war going on in Apache. There isn't. And >>Apache, there isn't. I mean isn't but would be honest. Like, and in the developer community, we are friends, we're working together. We want to achieve the, there's >>No war. It's all Kumbaya. Everyone understands the rising tide floats, all boats are all playing nice in the same box. Yes. It's just a competitive landscape in Horton. Works >>In the business, >>Business business, competitive business, PR and >>Pr. We're trying to be friendly, as friendly as we can. >>Yeah, no, I mean they're, they're, they're hying it up. But he was like, he was cool. Like, Hey, you know, we know each other. Yes. We all know each other and we're just gonna offer free Yes. And charge with support. And so are they. And that's okay. And they got other things going on. Yes. But he brought up the question. He said they're, they're launching a management console. So I said, Tyler's got a significant lead. He kind of didn't really answer the question. So the question is, that's your core bread and butter, That's your yes >>And no. Yes and no. I mean if you look at, if you look at Cloudera Enterprise, and I mentioned this earlier and when we talked in the morning, it has two main things in it. Cloudera Enterprise has the management suite, but it also has the, the the the support and maintenance that we provide to our customers and all the experience that we have in our team part That subscription. Yes. For a description. And I, I wanna stress the point that the fact that I built a sports car doesn't mean that I'm good at running that sports car. The driver of the car usually is much better at driving the car than the guy who built the car, right? So yes, we have many people on staff that are helping build had, but we have many more people on stuff that helped run Hado at large scale, at at financial indu, financial industry, retail industry, telecom industry, media industry, health industry, et cetera, et cetera. So that's very, very important for our customer. All that experience that we bring in on how to run the system technically Yeah. Within these verticals. >>But their strategies clear. We're gonna create an open source project within Apache for a management consult. Yes. And we sell support too. Yes. So there'll be a free alternative to management. >>So we have to see, But I mean we look at the product, I mean our products, >>It's gotta come down to product differentiation. >>Our product has been in the market for two years, so they just started building their products. It's >>Alpha, It's just Alpha. The >>Product is Alpha in Alpha right now. Yeah. Okay. >>Well the Apache products, it is >>Apache, right? Yeah. The Apache project is out. So we'll see how it does it compare to ours. But I think ours is way, way ahead of anything else out there. Yeah. Essentially people to try that for themselves and >>See essentially, John, when I asked Arro why does the world need Hortonwork? You know, eventually the answer we got was, well it's free. It needs to be more open. Had needs to be more open. >>No, there's, >>It's going to be, That's not really the reason why Warton >>Works. >>No, they want, they want to go make money. >>Exactly. We wasn't >>Gonna say them you >>When I kept pushing and pushing and that's ultimately the closest we can get cuz you >>Just listens. Not gonna >>12 open source projects. Yes. >>I >>Mean, yeah, yeah. You can't get much more open. Yeah. Look >>At management >>Consult, but Airs not shooting on all those. I mean, I mean not only we are No, no, not >>No, no, we absolutely >>Are. No, you are contributing. You're not. But that's not all your projects. There's other people >>Involved. Yeah, we didn't start, we didn't start all of these projects. Yeah, that's >>True. You contributing heavily to all of them. >>Yes, we >>Are. And that's clear. Todd Lipkin said that, you know, he contributed his first patch to HPAC in 2008. Yes. So I mean, you go back through the ranks >>Of your people and Todd now is a committer on Edge base is a committer on had itself. So on a number >>Of you clearly the lead and, and you know, and, but >>There is a concern. But we, we've heard it and I wanna just ask you No, no. So there's a concern that if I build processes around a proprietary management console, Yes. I'm gonna end up being locked into that proprietary management CNA all over again. Now this is so far from ca Yes. >>Right. >>But that's a concern that some people have expressed. And, and, and I think one of the reasons why Port Works is getting so much attention. So Yes. >>Talk about that. It's, it's a very good, it's a very good observation to make. Actually, >>There there is two separate things here. There's the platform where all the data sets and then there's this management parcel beside the platform. Now why did we make the management console why the cloud didn't make the management console? Because it makes our job for supporting the customers much more achievable. When a customer calls in and says, We have a problem, help us fix this problem. When they go to our management console, there is a button they click that gives us a dump of the state, of the cluster. And that's what allows us to very quickly debug what's going on. And within minutes tell them you need to do this and you to do that. Yeah. Without that we just can't offer the support services. There's >>Real value there. >>Yes. So, so now a year from, But, but, but you have to keep in mind that the, the underlying platform is completely open source and free CBH is completely a hundred percent open source, a hundred percent free, a hundred percent Apache. So a year from now, when it comes time to renew with us, if the customer is not happy with our management suite is not happy with our support data, they can, they can go to work >>And works. People are afraid >>Of all they can go to ibm. >>The data, you can take the data that >>You don't even need to take the data. You're not gonna move the data. It's the same system, the same software. Every, everything in CDH is Apache. Right? We're not putting anything in cdh, which is not Apache. So a year from now, if you're not happy with our service to you and the value that we're providing, you can switch. There is no lock in. There is no lock. And >>Your, your argument would be the switching costs to >>The only lock in is happiness. The only lock in is which >>Happiness inspection customer delay. Which by, by the way, we just wrote a piece about those wars and we said the risk of lockin is low. We made that statement. We've got some heat for it. Yes. And >>This is sort of at scale though. What the, what the people are saying, they're throwing the tomatoes is saying if this is, again, in theory at scale, the customers are so comfortable with that, the console that they don't switch. Now my argument was >>Yes, but that means they're happy with it. That means they're satisfied and happy >>With it. >>And it's more economical for them than going and hiding people full-time on stuff. Yeah. >>So you're, you're always on check as, as long as the customer doesn't feel like Oracle. >>Yeah. See that's different. Oracle is very, Oracle >>Is like different, right? Yeah. Here it's like Cisco routers, they get nested into the environment, provide value. That's just good competitive product strategy. Yes. If it they're happy. Yeah. It's >>Called open washing with >>Oracle, >>I mean our number one core attribute on the company, the number one value for us is customer satisfaction. Keeping our people Yeah. Our customers happy with the service that we provide. >>So differentiate in the product. Yes. Keep the commanding lead. That's the strategist. That's the, that's what's happening. That's your goal. Yes. >>That's what's happening. >>Absolutely. Okay. Co-founder of Cloudera, Always a pleasure to have you on the cube. We really appreciate all the hospitality over the beer and a half. And wanna personally thank you for letting us sit in your office and we'll miss you >>And we'll miss you too. We'll >>See you at the, the Cube events off Swing by, thanks for coming on the cube and great to see you and congratulations on all your success. >>Thank >>You. And thanks for the review on Modern Warfare three. Yeah, yeah. >>Love me again. If there any gaming stuff, you know, I.