>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everybody, welcome to this special CUBE conversation. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE. We're here with Sanjay Poonen who's the COO of VMware and a good friend of theCUBE. Sanjay great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Dave it's a pleasure. In these new circumstances, shelter at home and remote working. I hope you and your family are doing well. >> Yeah, and back at you Sanjay. Of course I saw you on Kramer Mad Money the other night. I was jealous. I said, "I need Sanjay on to get an optimism injection." You're a great leader And I think, a role model for all of us. And of course the "Go Niners" in the background really incented me to get-- I got my Red Sox cap and we have a lack of sports, but, and we miss it, But hey, we're making the best. >> Okay Red Sox is better than the Patriots. Although I love the Patriots. If i was in the east coast, especially now that Brady's gone. I guess you guys are probably ruing a little bit that Jimmy G came to us. >> I am a huge Tampa Bay fan all of a sudden. I be honest with you. Tom Brady can become a Yankee and I would root for them. I tell you that's how much I love the guy. But anyway, I'm really excited to have you on. It's obviously as you mentioned, these times are tough, but we're making the best do and it's great to see you. You are a huge optimist, but I want to ask you, I want to start with Narendra Modi just announced, basically a lockdown for 21 days. 1.3 billion people in your native country. I wonder if you could give us some, some thoughts on that. >> I'm, my parents live half their time in Bangalore and half here. They happen to be right now in the US, and they're doing well. My dad's 80 and my mom's 77. I go to India a lot. I spent about 18 years of my life there, and the last 32 odd years here and I still go there a lot. Have a lots friends and my family there. And , it's I'm glad that the situation is kind of , as best as they can serve it. It's weird, I was watching some of the social media photos of Bangalore. I tweeted this out last night. The roads look so clean and beautiful. I mean, it looks like 40 years ago when I was growing up. When I would take a bicycle to school. I mean Bangalore's one of the most beautiful cities in India, very green and you can kind of see it all again. And I think, as I've been watching some of the satellite photos of the various big cities to just watch sort of Mother Nature. Obviously, we're in a tough time and, I open my empathy and thoughts and prayers go to every family that's affected by this. And certainly ones who have lost loved ones, but it's sort of, I think it's neat, that we're starting to see some of the beautiful aspects of nature. Even as we deal with the tough aspects of sheltered home. And the incredible tough impacts of this pandemic across the world. >> Yeah, I think you're right. There is a silver lining as much as, our hearts go out to those that are that are suffering. You're seeing the canals in Venice run clear. As you mentioned, the nitrous oxide levels over China. what's going on in Bangalore. So, there is a little bit of light in the end of the tunnel for the environment, I hope. and at least there's an indication that we maybe, need to be more sensitized to this. Okay, let's get into it. I want to ask you, so last week in our breaking analysis. We worked with a data company called ETR down in New York City. They do constant surveys of CIO's. I want to read you something that they came out with just on Monday and get your reaction. Basically, their annual growth and IT spend they're saying, is showing a slight decline for 2020. As a significant number of organizations plan to cut and/or delay IT expenditures due to the coronavirus. Though the current climate may suggest worse many organizations are accelerating spending for 2020 as they ramp up their work-from-home infrastructure. These organizations are offsetting what would otherwise be a notable decline in global IT spend versus last year. Now we've gone from the 4% consensus at the beginning of the year. ETR brought it down to zero percent and then just on Monday, they went to slight negative. But, what's not been reported widely is the somewhat offsetting factor of work-from-home infrastructure. VMware obviously plays there. So I wonder if you could comment on what you're seeing. >> Yeah, Dave, I think , we'll have to see . I'm not an economic pundit. So we're going to have to see what the, IT landscape looks like in the overall sense and we'll probably play off GDP. Certain industries: travel, hospitality, I mean, it's brutal for them. I mean, and I hope that, what I really hope, that's going to happen to that industry, especially there's an infusion through recovery type of bill. Is that no real big company goes under, and goes bankrupt. I mean kind of the situation in 2008. I mean, people wondering what will happen to the Airlines. Boeing, hospital-- these are ic-- some of them like Boeing are iconic brands of the United States and of the world. There's only two real companies that make planes. So we've got to make sure that those industries stay afloat and stay good for the health of the world. Health of the US economy, jobs, and so on. That's always one end. Listen, health and safety of our employees always comes first. Before we even think about that. I always tell people the profits of VMware will wait if you are not well, if your loved ones not well, if your going to take care of people, take care of that first. We will be fine. This too shall pass. But if you're healthy, let's turn our attention because we're not going to just sit at home and play games. We're going to serve our customers. How do we do that? A lot of our customers are adjusting to this new normal. As a result, they have to either order devices with a laptop, screens, things of those kinds, to allow a work-from-home environment to be as close to productive as they work environment. So I expect that there will be a surge in the, sort of, end points that people need. I will have to see how Dell and HP and Lenovo, but I expect that they will probably see some surge in their laptops. As people, kind of, want those in the home and hopefully their supply chains are able to respond. But then with every one of those endpoints and screens that we need now for these types of organizations. You need to manage them, end point management. Often, you need virtual desktops on them. You need to end point security and then in some cases you will probably need, if it's a remote office, branch office, and into the home office, network security and app acceleration. So those Solutions, end point management, Workspace ONE, inclusive of a full-fledged virtual desktop capability That's our product Workspace ONE. Endpoint Securities, Carbon Black and the Network Platform NSX being software-defined was relegated for things like, load balancers and SDWAN capabilities and it's kind of almost feels like good, that we got those solutions, the last three, four years through acquisitions, in many cases. I mean, of course, Airwatch and Nicira were six, seven, eight years ago. But even SD-WAN, we acquired Velocloud three and a half years ago, Carbon Black just four months ago, and Avi in the last year. Those are all parts of that kind of portfolio now, and I feel we were able to, as customers come to us we're not going in ambulance-chasing. But as customers come to us and say, "What do you have as a work-at-home "for business continuity?" We're able to offer them a solution. So we did a webcast earlier this week. Where we talked about, we're calling it work in home with business continuity. It's led with our EUC offerings Workspace ONE. Accompanied by Carbon Black to secure that, and then underneath it, will obviously be the cloud foundation and our Network capabilities of NSX. >> Yeah, so I want to double down on that because it was not, the survey results, showed it was not just collaboration tools. Like Zoom and WebEx and gotomeeting Etc. It was, as you're pointing out, it was other infrastructure that was of VPN's. It was Network bandwidth. It was virtualization, security because they need to secure that work-from-home infrastructure. So a lot of sort of, ancillary activity. It was surprising to me, when I saw the data, that 21% of the CIO's that we surveyed, said that they actually plan on spending more in 2020 because of these factors. And so now we're tracking that daily. And the sentiment changes daily. I showed some other data that showed the CIO sentiment through March. Every day of the survey it dropped. Okay, so it's prudent to be cautious. But nonetheless, people to your point aren't just sitting on their hands. They're not standing still. They're moving to support this new work-from-home normal. >> Yeah, I mean listen, I forgot to say that, Yeah, we are using the video collaboration tools. Zoom a lot. We use Slack. We'll use Teams. So we are, those are accompanied. We were actually one of the first customers to use Zoom. I'm a big fan of my friend Eric Yuan and what they're doing there in modernizing, making it available on a mobile device. Just really fast. They've been very responsive and they reciprocated by using Workspace ONE there. We've been doing ads joined to VMware and zoom in the market for the last several years. So we're a big fan of their technology. So far be it from me to proclaim that the only thing you need here's VMware. There's a lot of other things on the stack. I think the best way, Dave, for us that we've sought to do this is again, I'm very sensitive to not ambulance-chase, which is, kind of go after this. To do it authentically, and the way that authentically is to be, I think Satya Nadella put this pretty well in an interview he did yesterday. Be a first responder to the first responder. A digital first responder, if I could. So when the, our biggest customers are hospital and school and universities and retailers and pharmacies. These are some of our biggest customers. They are looking, in some cases, actually hire more people to serve their communities and customers. And every one of them, as they , hire new people and so and so on, will I just naturally coming to us and when they come to us, serve them. And it's been really gratifying Dave. If I could read you the emails I've been getting the last few days. I got one from a very prominent City, the United States, the mayor's office, the CTO, just thanking us and our people. For being available who are being careful not to, we're being very sensitive to the pricing. To making sure customers don't feel like, in any way, that we're looking at the economics of it will always come just serve your customer. I got an email yesterday from a very large pharmacy. Routinely we were talking to folks in the, in the healthcare industry. University, a president of a school. In fact, Southern New Hampshire University, who I mentioned Jim Cramer. Sent me a note saying, "hey, we're really grateful you even mentioned our name." and I'm not doing this because, Southern New Hampshire University is doing an incredible job of moving a lot of their platform to online to help tens of thousands. And they were one of the early customers to adopt virtual desktops, and the cloud desktops, and the services. So, as we call. So in any of these use cases, I just tell our employees, "Be authentic. "First off take care of your families. "It's really important to take care of your own health and safety. But once you've done that, be authentic in serving our customers." That's what VR has always done. From the days of dying green, to bombers, to Pat, and all of us here now. Take care of our customers and we'll be fine. >> Yeah, and I perfectly understand your sensitivity to that notion of ambulance-chasing and I'm by no means trying to bait you into doing that. But I would stress, the industry needs you and the tech it-- many in the tech industry, like VMware, have very strong balance sheets. They're extremely viable companies and we as a community, as an industry, need companies like VMware to step up, be flexible on pricing, and terms, and payment, and things like that nature. Which it sounds like you're doing. Because the heroes that are on the front lines, they're fighting a battle every day, every hour, every minute and they need infrastructure to be able to work remotely with the stay-at-home mandates. >> I think that's right. And listen, let me talk a little bit of one of the things you talked about. Which is financing and we moved a lot of our business to increasingly, to the cloud. And SaaS and subscription services are a lot more radical than offer license and maintenance. We make that choice available to customers, in many cases we lead with cloud-first solutions. And then we also have financing services from our partners like Dell financial services that really allow a more gradual, radibal payment. Do people want financing? And , I think if there are other scenarios. Jim asked me on his show, "What will you do if one of your companies go bankrupt?" I don't know, that's an unprecedented, we didn't have, we had obviously, the financial crisis. I wasn't here at VMware during the dot-com blow up where companies just went bankrupt in 2000. I was at Informatica at the time. So, I'm sure we will see some unprecedented-- but I will tell you, we have a very fortunate to be profitable, have a good balance sheet. Whatever scenario, if we take care of our customers, I mean, we have been very fortunate to be one of the highest NPS, Net promoter scorer, companies in the industry. And , I've been reaching out to many of our top customers. Just a courtesy, without any agenda other than, we're just checking in. A friend in need is a friend indeed. It's a line that I remembered. And just reach out your customers. Hey listen. Checking in. No, other than can we help you, if there's anything and thank you, especially for ones who are retailers, pharmacies, hospitals, first responders. Thank them for what they're doing to serve many of their people. Especially people in retail. Think about the people who have to go into warehouses to service us, to deliver the stuff that comes to our home. I mean, these people are potentially at risk, but they do it. Put on masks. Braving health situations. That often need the paycheck. We're very grateful for that, and our hope is that this world situation, listen, I mentioned it on on TV as a kind of a little bit of a traffic jam. I love to ski and when I go off and to Tahoe, I tell my family, "I don't know how long it's going to take." with check up on Waze or Google Maps and usually takes four hours, no traffic. Every now and then it'll take five, six, seven. Worst case eight. I had some situation, never happen to me but some of my friends would just got stuck there and had to sleep in their car. But it's pretty much the case, you will eventually get there. I was talking to my dad, who is 80, and he's doing well. And he said, this feels a little bit like World War Two because you're kind of, in many places there. They had a bunker, shelter. Not just shelter in place, but bunker shelter in that time. But that lasted, whatever five, six years. I don't think this is going to last five, six years. It may be five, six months. It might be a whole year. I don't know. I can guarantee it's not going to be six years. So it won't be as bad as World War two. It certainly won't be as bad as the Spanish Flu. Which took 39 people and two percent of the world. Including five percent of my country, India in the 1918 to 1920 period, a hundred years ago. So we will get through this. I like, we shall overcome. I'm not going to sing it for you. It's one of my favorite Louis Armstrong songs, but find ways by which you encourage, uplift people. Making sure, it is tough, it is very tough times and we have to make sure that we get through this. That jobs are preserved as best as we can because that's the part I'm really, really concerned about. The loss of jobs and how we're going to recover as US economy, but we will make it through this. >> Yeah, and I want to sort of second what you're saying. That look, I know there are a lot of people at home that going a little bit stir crazy and this, the maybe a little bit of depression setting in. But to your point, we have to be empathic for those that are suffering. The elderly, who are in intensive care and also those frontline workers. And then I love your optimism. We will get through this. This is not the Spanish Flu. We have, it's a different world, a different technology world. Our focus, like many other small businesses is, we obviously want to survive. We want to maintain our full employment. We want to serve our customers and we, as you, believe that that is the recipe for getting through this. And so, I love the optimism. >> And listen, and we can help be a part of my the moment you texted me and said, "Hey, can I be in your show?" If it helps you drive, whatever you need, sponsorship revenue, advertising. I'm here and the same thing for all of our friends who have to adjust the way in which the wo-- we want to be there to help them. And I've chosen as best as I can, in terms of how I can support my family, the sort of five, five of us at home now. All fighting over bandwidth, the three kids, and my wife, and I. To be positive with them, to be in my social media presence, as best as possible. Every day to be positive in what I tweet out to the world And point people to a hope of what's going to come. I don't know how long this is going to last. But I can tell you. I mean, just the fact that you and I are talking over video interview. High fidelity, reasonably high fidelity, high bandwidth. The ability to connect. I mean it is a whole lot better than a lot of what happened in World War 2 or the Spanish flu. And I hope at the end of it, some of us, some of this will forever change our life. I hope for for example in a lot of our profession. We have to travel to visit customers. And now that I'm building some of these relationships virtually. I hope that maybe my travel percentage will drop. It's actually good for the environment, good for my family life. But if we can lower that percentage, still get things done through Zoom calls, and Workspace ONE, and things of those kinds, that would be awesome. So that's how I think about the way in which I'm adapting my life. And then I set certain personal goals. This year, for example, we're expanding a lot of our focus in security. We have a billion dollar security business and we're looking to grow that NSX, Common Black, Workspace ONE, and accompanying tools and I made it a goal to try and meet at all my sales teams. A thousand C-ISOs. I mean off I know a lot of CIO's in the 25 years, I've had, maybe five, six thousand of them in the world. And blessed to build that relationship over the years of my SAP and VMware experience, but I don't know. I mean, I knew probably 50 or 100. Maybe a few hundred CISO's. And now that we have a portfolio it's relevant to grant them and I think very compelling across network security and End Point security. We own the companies with such a strong portfolio in both those areas. I'm reaching out to them and I'm happy to tell you, I connected, I've got the names of 1,000 of the top CISO's in the Fortune 1000, Global 2000, and connecting with many of them through LinkedIn and other mixers. I hope I talked to many of them through the course of the year. And many of them will be virtual conversations. Again, just to talk to them about being a trusted advisor to us. Seeing if we can help them. And then of course, there will be a product pitch for NSX and Carbon Black and how we're different from whoever it is, Palo Alto and F5 and Netscaler and the SD line players or semantic McAfee Crowdstrike. We're differentiated so I want to certainly earn some of the business. But these are ways in which you adjust to a virtual kind of economy. Where I'm not having to physically go and meet them. >> Yeah, and we share your optimism and those CISO's are, they're heroes, superheroes on the front line. I'll tell ya a quick aside. So John Furrier and I, we're in Barcelona. When really, the coronavirus came to our heightened awareness and John looked at me and said, "Dave we've been doing digital for 10 years. "We have to take all of the software that we've developed, "all these assets and help our customers pivot." So we share that optimism and we're actually lucky to be able to have the studios and be able to have these conversations with you guys. So again, we share that, that optimism. I want to ask you, just on guidance. A lot of companies have come out and said we're not giving guidance anymore. I didn't see anything relative to VMware. Have you guys announced anything on guidance in terms of how you're going to communicate? Where are you at with that? >> No, I think we're just, I mean listen, we take this very carefully because of reg FD and the regulations of public company. So we just allow the normal quarterly ins. And of outside of that, if our CFO decides they may. But right now we're just continuing business as usual. We're in the middle of our, kind of, whatever, middle of our quarter. Quarter ends April. So work hard do the best we can in all the regions, be available for all of our teams. Pat, myself, and others we're, to the extent that we're healthy and we're doing well, but thank God, is reach out to CISO's and CIO's and CTO's and CEOs and help them. And I believe people will spend money. The questions we have to go over. And I think the stronger will survive. The companies with better balance sheet and unfortunately, some of the weaker companies won't. And I think quite frankly, if you do your job well. I don't mean this in any negative sense. The stronger companies will take share in these environments. I was watching a segment for John Chambers. He has been through a number of different, when I know him, so an I have, I've talked to him about some of the stuff. He will tell you that he, advises is a lot of his companies now. From the experiences he saw in 2008, 2001, in many of the crisis and supply chain issues. This is a time where leadership counts. The strong get stronger. Never waste a good crisis, as Winston Churchill said. And as you do that, the strong will come strong because you figure out ways by which, if you're going to make changes that were planned for one or two years from now. Maybe a good time to make them is now. And as you do that you communicate a vision for where you're going. Very clearly to your employees. Again incessantly over and over again. They, hopefully, are able to repeat it in their own words in a simple fashion, and then you get all of your employees in our case 30,000 plus employees of VMware lined up. So one of the things that we've been doing a lot of these days is communicate, communicate, communicate, internally. I've talked a lot about our communication with customer. But inside, our employees, we do calls with our top leaders over Zoom. Calls, intimate calls, and many, often we're adjusting to where I'll say a few words. I have a mandatory every two week goal with all of my senior most leaders. I'll speak for about five minutes and then for the next 25 minutes, the top 12, 15 of them I listen. To things, I want all of them to speak up. There's nobody who should stay silent, because I want to hear what's going on in that corner of the world. >> But fantastic Sanjay. Well, I mean, Boeing, I heard this morning's going to get some support from the government. And strategically that's very important for our country. Congress finally passed, looks like they're passing that bill, and support which is awesome. It's been, especially for all these small businesses that are struggling and want to maintain full employment. I heard Steve Mnuchin the other day saying, "Look, we're talking about two months of payroll "for people if they agree to keep people employed. "or hire them back." I mean the Fed. people say, oh the FED is out of arrows. The Feds, not out of arrows. I mean, I'm not an economist either. But the Fed. has a lot of bullets in their gun, as they say. So Sanjay, thanks so much. You're an awesome leader and really an inspirational executive and a good friend so thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Dave, always a pleasure. Please say hi to all of my friends, your co-anchors, and the staff at CUBE. Thank them for all their hard work. It's a pleasure to talk to you this morning. I wish you, your family, and your friends and all of our community, stay safe and be well. >> Thank you Sanjay and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for the cube and we'll see you next time. (soft music)

>>Fly from San Francisco. It's the cube covering RSA conference, 2020 San Francisco brought to you by Silicon angle media. >>Hi everyone. Welcome back to the cubes coverage here at in San Francisco, the Moscone center for RSA conference 2020 I'm job for your host. We are the very special guests, the COO of VMware, Sanjay Poonen, cube alumni. When you talk about security, talk about the modern enterprise as it transforms new use cases, new problems emerge. New opportunities exist here to break it down. Sanjay, welcome back. Thank you John. Always a pleasure to be on your show and I think it's my first time at RSA. We've talked a number of times, but nice to see you here. Well, it's a security guard. Well, this is really why I wanted you to talk, talk to you because operations is become now the big conversation around security. So you know, security was once part of it. It comes out and part of the board conversation, but when you look at security, all the conversations that we're seeing that are the most important conversations are almost a business model conversation. >>Almost like if you're the CEO of the company, you've got HR people, HR, organizational behavior, collaboration, technology, stack compliance and risk management. So the threat of cyber has to cut across now multiple operational functions of the business. It's no longer one thing, it's everything. So this is really kind of makes it the pressure of the business owners to be mindful of a bigger picture. And the attack velocity is happening so much faster, more volume of attacks, milliseconds and nanosecond attacks. So this is a huge, huge problem. I need you to break it down for me. >> Good. But then wonderful intro. No, I would say you're absolutely right. First off, security is a boardroom topic. Uh, audit committees are asking, you know, the CIO so often, you know, reports a report directly, sometimes, often not even to the CIO, to the head of legal or finance and often to the audit. >>So it's a boardroom topic then. You're right, every department right now cares about security because they've got both threat and security of nation state, all malicious, organized crime trying to come at them. But they've also got physical security mind. I mean, listen, growing a virus is a serious threat to our physical security. And we're really concerned about employees and the idea of a cyber security and physical security. We've put at VMware, cybersecurity and, and um, um, physical security. One guy, the CIO. So he actually runs vote. So I think you're absolutely right and if you're a head of HR, you care about your employees. If you're care ahead of communications, you care about your reputation and marketing the same way. If you're a finance, you care about your accounting systems and having all of the it systems that are. So we certainly think that holistic approach does, deserves a different approach to security, which is it can't be silo, silo, silo. >>It has to be intrinsic. And I've talked on your show about why intrinsic and how differentiated that intrinsic security, what I talked about this morning in my keynote. >> Well, and then again, the connect the dots there. It's not just security, it's the applications that are being built on mobile. For instance, I've got a mobile app. I have milliseconds, serious bond to whether something's yes or no. That's the app on mobile. But still the security threat is still over here and I've got the app over here. This is now the reality. And again, AirWatch was a big acquisition that you did. I also had some security. Carbon black was a $2 billion acquisition that VMware made. That's a security practice. How's it all coming together? Can you think of any questions? Blame the VMware because it's not just security, it's what's around it. >> Yeah. I think we began to see over the course of the last several years that there were certain control points and security that could help, you know, bring order to this chaos of 5,000 security vendors. >>They're all legitimate. They're all here at the show. They're good vendors. But you cannot, if you are trying to say healthy, go to a doctor and expect the doctor to tell you, eat 5,000 tablets and sailed. He just is not sustainable. It has to be baked into your diet. You eat your proteins, your vegetables, your fruit, your drink, your water. The same way we believe security needs to become intrinsically deeper parts, the platform. So what were the key platforms and control points? We decided to focus on the network, the endpoint, and you could think of endpoint as to both client and workload identity, cloud analytics. You take a few of those and network. We've been laboring the last seven years to build a definitive networking company and now a networking security company where we can do everything from data center networking, Dell firewalls to load balancing to SDN in this NSX platform. >>You remember where you bought an nice syrup. The industry woke up like what's VM ever doing in networking? We've now built on that 13,000 customers really good growing revenue business in networking and and now doing that working security. That space is fragmented across Cisco, Palo Alto, FIU, NetScaler, checkpoint Riverbed, VMware cleans that up. You get to the end point side. We saw the same thing. You know you had an endpoint management now workspace one the sequel of what AirWatch was, but endpoint security again, fragmented. You had Symantec McAfee, now CrowdStrike, tenable Qualis, you know, I mean just so many fragmented IOM. We felt like we could come in now and clean that up too, so I have to worry about to do >> well basically explaining that, but I want to get now to the next conversation point that I'm interested in operational impact because when you have all these things to operationalize, you saw that with dev ops and cloud now hybrid, you got to operationalize this stuff. >>You guys have been in the operations side of the business for our VMware. That's what you're known for and the developers and now on the horizon I gotta operationalize all the security. What do I do? I'm the CSO. I think it's really important that in understanding operations of the infrastructure, we have that control point called vSphere and we're now going to take carbon black and make it agentless on the silverside workloads, which has never been done before. That's operationalizing it at the infrastructure level. At the end point we're going to unify carbon black and workspace one into a unified agent, never been done before. That's operationalizing it on the client side. And then on the container and the dev ops site, you're going to start bringing security into the container world. We actually happened in our grade point of view in containers. You've seen us do stuff with Tansu and Kubernetes and pivotal. >>Bringing that together and data security is a very logical thing that we will add there. So we have a very good view of where the infrastructure and operations parts that we know well, a vSphere, NSX workspace one containers with 10 Xu, we're going to bring security to all of them and then bake it more and more in so it's not feeling like it's a point tool. The same platform, carbon black will be able to handle the security of all of those use cases. One platform, several use cases. Are you happy with the carbon black acquisition? Listen, you know, you stay humble and hungry. Uh, John for a fundamental reason, I've been involved with number of acquisitions from my SAP VMware days, billion dollar plus. We've done talking to us. The Harvard business review had an article several years ago, which Carney called acquisitions and majority of them fail and they feel not because of process of product they feel because good people leave. >>One of the things that we have as a recipe does acquisition. We applied that to AirWatch, we apply the deny Sera. There is usually some brain trust. You remember in the days of nice area, it was my team Cosato and the case of AirWatch. It was John Marshall and that team. We want to preserve that team to help incubate this and then what breve EV brings a scale, so I'm delighted about Patrick earlier. I want to have him on your show next time because he's now the head of our security business unit. He's culturally a fit for the mr. humble, hungry. He wants to see just, we were billion dollar business now with security across networking endpoint and then he wants to take just he's piece of it, right? The common black piece of it, make it a billion dollar business while the overall security business goes from three to five. >>And I think we're going to count them for many years to come to really be a key part of VMware's fabric, a great leader. So we're successful. If he's successful, what's my job then? He reports to me is to get all the obstacles out of the way. Get every one of my core reps to sell carbon black. Every one of the partners like Dell to sell carbon black. So one of the deals we did within a month is Dell has now announced that their preferred solution on at Dell laptops, this carbon bike, they will work in the past with silence and crowd CrowdStrike. Now it's common black every day laptop now as a default option. That's called blank. So as we do these, John, the way we roll is one on here to basically come in and occupy that acquisition, get the obstacles out of the way, and that let Patrick scaled us the same way. >>Martine Casado or jumbo. So we have a playbook. We're gonna apply that playbook. Stay humble and hungry. And you ask me that question every year. How are we doing a carbon black? I will be saying, I love you putting a check on you. It will be checking in when we've done an AirWatch. What do you think? Pretty good. Very good. I think good. Stayed line to the radar. Kept growing. It's top right. Known every magic quadrant. That business is significant. Bigger than the 100 million while nice here. How do we do a nice hero? NSX? It's evolved quite a bit. It's evolved. So this is back to the point. VMware makes bets. So unlike other acquisitions where they're big numbers, still big numbers, billions or billions, but they're bets. AirWatch was a good bet. Turned out okay. That the betting, you're being conservative today anyway. That's it. You're making now. >>How would you classify those bets? What are the big bets that you're making right now? Listen, >> I think there's, um, a handful of them. I like to think of things as no more than three to five. We're making a big bet. A multi-cloud. Okay. The world is going to be private, public edge. You and us have talked a lot about VMware. AWS expanded now to Azure and others. We've a big future that private cloud, public cloud edge number two, we're making a big bet on AB motorization with the container level 10 zoos. I think number three, we're making a big bet in virtual cloud networking cause we think longterm there's going to be only two networking companies in matter, VMware and Cisco. Number four, we're making a big bet in the digital workspace and build on what we've done with AirWatch and other technologies. Number five, and make it a big bet security. >>So these five we think of what can take the company from 10 to 20 billion. So we, you know, uh, we, we've talked about the $10 billion Mark. Um, and the next big milestone for the company is a 20 billion ball Mark. And you have to ask yourself, can you see this company with these five bets going from where they are about a 10 billion revenue company to 20. Boom. We hope again, >> Dave, a lot that's doing a braking and now he might've already shipped the piece this morning on multi-cloud. Um, he and I were commenting that, well, I said it's the third wave of cloud computing, public cloud, hybrid multi-cloud and hybrids, the first step towards multi-cloud. Everyone kind of knows that. Um, but I want to ask you, because I told Dave and we kind of talked about this is a multi-decade growth opportunity, wealth creation, innovation, growth, new opportunity multicloud for the generation. >>Take the, this industry the next level. How do you see that multicloud wave? Do you agree on the multigenerational and if so, what specifically do you see that unfolding into this? And I'm deeply inspired by what Andy Jassy, Satya Nadella, you know, the past leading up to Thomas Korea and these folks are creating big cloud businesses. Amazon's the biggest, uh, in the iOS pass world. Azure is second, Google is third, and just market shares. These folks collectively are growing, growing really well. In some senses, VM-ware gets to feed off that ecosystem in the public cloud. So we are firm believers in what you're described. Hybrid cloud is the pot to the multicloud. We coined that term hybrid thought. In fact, the first incantation of eco there was called via cloud hybrid service. So we coined the term hybrid cloud, but the world is not multi-cloud. The the, the key though is that I don't think you're gonna walk away from those three clouds I mentioned have deep pockets. >>Then none of them are going away and they're going to compete hard with each other. The market shares may stay the same. Our odd goal is to be a Switzerland player that can help our customers take VM or workloads, optimize them in the private cloud first. Okay? When a bank of America says on their earnings caller, Brian Warren and said, I can run a private cloud better than a public cloud and I can save 2 billion doing that, okay? It turns off any of the banks are actually running on VMware. That's their goal. But there are other companies like Freddie Mac, we're going all in with Amazon. We want to ride the best of both worlds. If you're a private cloud, we're going to make you the most efficient private cloud, VMware software, well public cloud, and going to Amazon like a Freddie Mac will help you ride your apps into that through VMware. >>So sometimes history can be a predictor of future behavior. And just to kind of rewind the computer industry clock, if you looked at mainframe mini-computers, inter networking, internet proprietary network operating systems dominated it, but you saw the shift and it was driven by choice for customers, multiple vendors, interoperability. So to me, I think cloud multicloud is going to come down to the best choice for the workload and then the environment of the business. And that's going to be a spectrum. But the key in that is multi-vendor, multi, a friend choice, multi-vendor, interoperability. This is going to be the next equation in the modern error. It's not gonna look the same as mainframe mini's networking, but it'll create the next Cisco, the create the next new brand that may or may not be out there yet that might be competing with you or you might be that next brand. >>So interoperability, multi-vendor choice has been a theme in open systems for a long time. Your reactions, I think it's absolutely right, John, you're onto something there. Listen, the multicloud world is almost a replay of the multi hardware system world. 20 years ago, if you asked who was a multi hardware player before, it was Dell, HP at the time, IBM, now, Lenovo, EMC, NetApp, so and so forth and Silva storage, networking. The multicloud world today is Amazon, Azure, Google. If you go to China, Alibaba, so on and so forth. A Motiva somebody has to be a Switzerland player that can serve the old hardware economy and the new hardware economy, which is the, which is the cloud and then of course, don't forget the device economy of Apple, Google, Microsoft, there too. I think that if you have some fundamental first principles, you expressed one of them. >>Listen where open source exists, embrace it. That's why we're going big on Kubernetes. If there are multiple clouds, embrace it. Do what's right for the customer, abstract away. That's what virtualization is. Managed common infrastructure across Ahmed, which is what our management principles are, secure things. At the point of every device and every workload. So those are the principles. Now the engineering of it changes. The way in which we're doing virtualization today in 2020 is slightly different from when Diane started the company and around the year 2020 years ago. But the principals are saying, we're just not working just with the hardware vendors working toward the cloud vendors. So using choices where it's at, the choice is what they want. Absolutely, absolutely. And you're right. It's choice because it was the big workloads. We see, for example, Amazon having a headstart in the public cloud markets, but there's some use cases where Azure is applicable. >>Some use his word, Google's applicable, and to us, if the entire world was only one hardware player or only one cloud player, only one device player, you don't need VMware. We thrive in heterogeneity. It's awesome. I love that word. No heterogeneity provides not 3000 vendors. There's almost three, three of every kind, three silver vendors, three storage vendors, three networking vendors, three cloud vendors, three device vendors. We was the middle of all of it. And yeah, there may be other companies who tried to do that too. If they are, we should learn from them, do it better than them. And competition even to us is a good thing. All right. My final question for you is in the, yeah, the Dell technologies family of which VMware is a part of, although big part of it, the crown jewel as we've been calling them the cube, they announced RSA is being sold to a private equity company. >>What's the general reaction amongst VMware folks and the, and the Dell technology family? Good move, no impact. What we support Dell and you know, all the moves that they've made. Um, and from our perspective, you know, if we're not owning it, we're going to partner it. So I see no overlap with RSA. We partner with them. They've got three core pillars, secure ID, net witness and Archer. We partnered with them very well. We have no aspirations to get into those aspects of governance. Risk and compliance or security has been, so it's a partner. So whoever's running it, Rohit runs on very well. He also owns the events conference. We have a great relationship and then we'll keep doing that. Well, we are focused in the areas I described, network, endpoint security. And I think what Michael has done brilliantly through the course of the last few years is set up a hardware and systems company in Dell and allow the software company called Vima to continue to operate. >>And I think, you know, the movement of some of these assets between the companies like pivotal to us and so on and so forth, cleans it up so that now you've got both these companies doing well. Dell has gone public, we Hammer's gone public and he has said on the record, what's good for Dell is good, what's good for VMware and vice versa and good for the customer. And I think the key is there's no visibility on what cloud native looks like. Hybrid, public, multi, multi, not so much. But you get almost, it's an easy bridge to get across and get there. AI, cyber are all big clear trends. They're waves. Sasha. Great. Thank you. Thanks for coming on. Um, your thoughts on the security show here. Uh, what's your, what's your take to, uh, definitive security shows? I hope it stays that way. Even with the change of where RSA is. >>Ownership goes is this conference in black hat and we play in both, uh, Amazon's conference. I was totally starting to, uh, reinforce, reinforce cloud security will show up there too. Uh, but we, we think, listen, there's what, 30,000 people here. So it's a force. It's a little bit like VMworld. We will play here. We'll play a big, we've got, you know, it just so happens because the acquisition happened before we told them, but we have two big presences here. We were at carbon black, um, and it's an important business for us. And I said, like I said, we have $1 billion business and security today by 30,000 customers using us in a security network, endpoints cloud. I want to take that to be a multi, multiple times that size. And I think there's a pot to do that because it's an adjacent us and security. So we have our own kind of selfish motives here in terms of getting more Mindshare and security. >>We did a keynote this morning, which was well received with Southwest airlines. She did a great job. Carrie Miller, she was a fantastic speaker and it was our way of showing in 20 minutes, not just to our point of view, because you don't want to be self serving a practitioner's point of view. And that's what's really important. Well finally on a personal note, um, you know, I always use the term tech athlete, which I think you are one, you really work hard and smart, but I got to get your thoughts. But then I saw you're not on Twitter. I'm on. When IBM announced a new CEO, Arvin, um, fishnet Indian American, another CEO, this is a pattern. We're starting to see Indian American CEOs running cup American companies because this is the leadership and it's really a great thing in my mind, I think is one of the most successful stories of meritocracy of all time. >>You're quick. I'm a big fan of oven, big fan of Shantanu, Sundar Pichai, something that Ellen, many of them are close friends of mine. Uh, many of them have grown up in Southern India. We're a different ages. Some of them are older than me and in many cases, you know, we were falling behind other great players like Vino Cosla who came even 10 to 15 years prior. And you know, it's hard for an immigrant in this country. You know, um, when I first got here and I came as an immigrant to Dartmouth college, there may have been five or 10 Brown skin people in the town of Hanover, New Hampshire. I don't know if you've been to New Hampshire. I've been there, there's not many at that time. And then the late 1980s, now of course, there's much more, uh, so, you know, uh, we stay humble and hungry. >>There's a part of our culture in India that's really valued education and hard work and people like Arvin and some of these other people are products. I look up to them, the things I learned from them. And um, you know, it's true of India. It's a really good thing to see these people be successful at name brand American companies, whether it's IBM or Microsoft or Google or Adobe or MasterCard. So we're, we're, I'm in that fan club and there's a lot I learned from that. I just love being around people who love entrepreneurship, love innovation, love technology, and work hard. So congratulations. Thank you so much for your success. Great to see you again soon as you put in the COO of VM-ware here on the ground floor here at RSA conference at Moscone, sharing his insight into the security practice that is now carbon black and VMware. All the good things that are going on there. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCube covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and intel along with its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCube live in Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin and we are coming to you from AWS re:Invent 19. I'm with Stu Miniman. This is our second day of two sets of theCube coverage. And we are pleased to welcome a couple of guests from Citrix. To my left is Matt Lull Managing Director of Global Strategic Alliances and we have Marissa Schmidt, Senior Director of Product Management. Guys, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. >> Thank you. >> So here we are with 65,000 or so of our close friends with AWS. Matt you have been managing the AWS Citrix relationship, I think you said for about 10 years. >> I have. >> Give our audience an overview of what Citrix and AWS are doing and the evolution of this partnership. >> Well 10 years ago when we started Cloud was brand new, Amazon's re:Invent conference hadn't even started yet and nothing Citrix made worked on Amazon. And now we are pleased to say that everything Citrix makes works on Amazon. And we actually have hundreds of customers and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of users using Citrix on AWS everyday. And the pace of innovation in that last decade has accelerated. We've done more net new product innovation in the last 10 years than in the previous 20 before that. It's been a fast-paced environment. >> Well and a strong and growing partnership. I remember the first year I came to the show it was 2013 and I think Citrix had one of the largest booths at the conference there. You keep adding to that. Marissa, let's not bury the lead any further. There is some hard news dropped today. Help understand, help us share the new news today. >> Marissa: Yeah, absolutely. There are many announcements. It started yesterday actually at the keynote with the Outpost announcement. The we have the ADC validation with Outpost and the only ADC in that validation. And then we also have the ingress routing that also was announced yesterday and our solution integration into that. Both blogs went out yesterday. And then we had a press release this morning that talked about our quick starts with AWS quick start for Citrix ADC as well as the rest of the instant site that now we support. >> Okay, so I'd love to dig in a little bit on the Outpost if we can. >> Yes, sure. >> My background is networking too. So people have been geeking out trying to understand this. You know, some of the key, you know, the secret sauce inside of Outpost is that nitro chip from Annapurna help really extend what AWS is doing in the public Cloud to a customer's data center. Reminds me a little bit of what NetWorker has been doing for customer applications for quite a long time. So how do those pieces fit together? >> So for AWS right, the focus is for some of the customers that has more applications-centric that is on-prem, that has regulatory compliance requirements and for those customers that really want to do that hybrid with on-prem and Cloud, this is the best approach for them that they can use the on-prem solution with Outpost but put the VPX, the NetScaler ADC VPX on Outpost and provide that solution for hybrid customers that want to have the enterprise grade solutions on-prem and Cloud. >> I look at Outpost as more strategic than just a conversation or on a new piece of hardware and some new nitro hyper visors, right? This is Amazon's first move into hybrid Cloud which we've been doing since the beginning. And when you look at where Citrix ADC is already deployed, it is a leading piece of technology in the corporate data center in the DMZ, protecting the corporate assets. So now we have a situation where we've been helping Amazon with hybrid for a long time. Now they're moving their infrastructure onto premise and we're starting to combine our on-premise footprint with their on-premise footprint and its really actually an interesting time and place to be working not just with Citrix ADC, which is first, but in the future with things like Citrix SD-WAN, which is the other major piece of our networking portfolio. >> So when theCube was at Citrix energy, I think that was back in, I'm going to guess April, in the Spring. So many Cube shows, I lose track. We, Keith Jones and I were there for several days, got to talk with a lot of your customers, your leaders all about how ultimately the workforce, five generations in the workforce today, which kind of surprised me, but how everybody is distributed and that's how people need to work. Similar with how organizations are now hybrid multicloud. There's all of these technologies that need to work together in order to enable the worker to deliver what that business needs to drive differentiation. Talk to us a little bit about some of the parallels there in terms of what Citrix delivers to the workspace and how what you're doing with Amazon is going to allow businesses, whether its a retail organization or a bank to enable, ultimately, at the end of the day those workers to get stuff done wherever they are, so they can access applications whether they're on-prem or in the Cloud. >> So the workspace conversation is an interesting one and you used a word, hybrid multicloud, which you don't necessarily hear in Amazon circles a lot, they are the largest of the Clouds, right. But that said, our job is to deliver every application known to mankind, and that is those that are built on-premise by IT and those that are running as SaaS from any provider and there are companies that make important applications that also have Clouds. We tie all that together, right. So with the Citrix networking, the ability to terminate the end user's SSL session, we can see all the traffic, regardless of where it originated. We can tell what that user is doing in real time and we can apply new and innovative solutions like things that Amazon is a leader in around machine learning and artificial intelligence at the user level to say, is what this user is doing today normal for that particular user. Not for some other user, normal for you, and are you behaving unusually, cause if you're behaving unusually maybe there's something we need to click down in on. So we're looking really, really closely at how the world is evolving to move to where SaaS is happening. IT is losing control of the application servers and they're moving out into SaaS land. Many of them are on Amazon, some of them are elsewhere, and all of them have to be governed. And that's where we're really investing heavily and redefining what is Citrix for the future. >> Now so Matt, it's always interesting when people look at this space they're like, oh Cloud is changing everything, you know, Amazon is taking over the world. So I mentioned Citrix had the biggest booth back in 2013. There was a little product called AWS WorkSpaces that was announced and everybody was like, well, it was nice that Citrix had a long relationship with Amazon. I guess we won't be seeing them next year. Well, here we are 2019, strong partnership. Help us understand how that dynamic works out and how, you know, you worked through some of these coopetition environments. >> That's a fun one. So we run into coopetition across the board. We have some in the networking arena with core load-balancing services that exist in all the Cloud platforms. And we have a variety of startups in the Daas land. And when I look at WorkSpaces, it's a quality product for a simple user that needs it now and needs a small quantity. Some of the larger enterprises are looking at it for simplicity but when I look at what it's capable of doing and what it's total costs are versus what happens when we can deploy the 30-year mature solution from Citrix on Amazon, we still find a large percentage of the customers needs what Citrix delivers. So we have actually probably more Citrix WorkSpaces users on Amazon than on any other Cloud. It's depending on how you meter it. It's a little hard to say with total accuracy but it's been supported on Amazon for longer than anywhere else. And we know customers appreciate the combination of the two and we look at what AWS is able to provide from a platform perspective, you know, with a built-in high availability, built-in global reach, built-in global performance. Those things are all valuable to our customers and they deliver a great platform at a reasonable price. So we support that. At the same time, we're moving out of that market, that pixel remote presentation market, well, we're not moving out of it, we're moving beyond it. It is still a core part of our portfolio but our investments going forward are in delivering those applications into the intelligent workspace regardless of where they originate. Many of those user sessions won't actually be virtualized at all. They'll be controlled, governed, and secured with Citrix Workspace and Citrix networking technology but won't be dependent on things like DaaS, which is what you get out of those services like AWS WorkSpaces. >> Marissa, when I talk to customers, one of the biggest challenges they have is, you know, the changing portfolio of applications that they're dealing with. It's getting more complicated. It's gone from monolith to microservices, everything is distributed, you know, it's not just my data that's in the public Cloud, Edge now becomes a larger piece of the discussion. These are the types of solutions that Citrix has been helping a long time. What is different now about the application landscape and how Citrix is working with customers than it might have been a few years ago. >> What's different now is definitely the more modernization of the apps, right? The digital transformation was talked about in all the different keynotes yesterday and today. And as we do that we need to help our customers adapt with the applications that they do have whether it's the legacy apps or the more adaptable, flexible apps that can go to the Cloud with Kubernetes and that container environment but with Citrix solutions you can actually do that with Citrix ADC being in a container environment so we can provide that east west traffic with Citrix CPX while we also have the north south traffic for the legacy 3-tier web apps that's always going to be there for the majority of the customers, right. But what makes Citrix unique is that we do have single code base for Citrix ADC that can run in the traditional apps as well as now the east west traffic for all more modernized applications which is critical. And for Citrix overall, it's 3 pillars, right? One is the end user experience that's always got to be stellar. And number two is giving the customer a choice of which environment they want to work with. And lastly, it's providing security. And with the Citrix overall solution where Workspace from an end user perspective and the apps closer to the applications with the Citrix ADC together provides that end-to-end solution for our customers. >> Marissa, can you give us an example of, I presume as the Senior Director of Product Management you're in the field a lot, you talk with customers. Some of the things that AWS showed yesterday on stage, we saw Cerner talking about their healthcare transformation, we saw Goldman Sachs CEO go from D.J. to talking about how they have completely transformed their consumer finance business. What's an example that you think, when you're out in the field, really articulates the value that Citrix delivers enabling a business to truly transform to that? Regardless of the application infrastructure they're able to harness the data, extract insight from it and use it as a business differentiator. >> Yeah, so for our customers it really resonates, the Cerner one and Goldman Sachs because they're, you know, we deal with a lot of our customers that way, Especially in the healthcare industry. Whether they decide to go some of it in the Cloud, you still want to, what's important for them is that compliance, that security, that data protection. It still matters whether it's on-prem or in the Cloud environment. And so in that case, this is where our Citrix solution, as they decide to take some work loads on-prem or on the Clouds, they can still use this same feature-rich capabilities that Citrix ADC or the Workspace have to connect all their applications in one place and still get the initiatives that they need for their company to get the best our-wide as well as not having to do the day-to-day data center changes. Now they can be flexible by putting that in the Cloud. >> So if you look at how customers have been coming across Citrix and which portion of the customer organizations we've historically spoken to, you know, 20 years ago we talked to the desktop team and we were a solution by getting client server applications on the desktops, which was a big problem 20 years ago. It's not as much of a problem today but even as you move to browser-based environments, security and governance are more important than ever, right? We see it every day. Another company got hacked. Another situation happened. There was another consumer privacy breach. We see the rules and regulations coming out in a number of countries about how data has to be protected and companies become liable if there's problems. So, increasingly we're seeing companies come to Citrix and saying we need help with governance compliance and security. And increasingly we're marrying the unique networking capabilities that we have with the unique workspace or application desktop virtualization capabilities to create new and improved solutions that really kind of change the game for how end users get access to applications, remove the need to know passwords, which limits the ability to actually lose them, and simplify the process of making sure your data is where you believe it should be. >> Matt, you know, such a deep partnership, I'm curious, there's so many announcements that Amazon talked about, is there anything that's either jumped out at you or places beyond? We talked about some of the Outpost specific things but I think about machine learning is exciting a lot of people. People want to be able to plug into these environments either natively or through hybrid environments. Where does that play into your discussions with customers? >> So when we look at how Citrix is transforming what we do there's a lot of things that go on behind the scenes, we are a substantial Amazon customer. We are one of their largest. So, you can take for granted that we're consuming a lot of their cutting edge capabilities as we build our cutting edge capabilities. We're not necessarily directly exposing something like Amazon machine learning as a button in our environment but when you look at what they're doing with end user computing applications, they're moving into a world where, they mentioned in the keynote yesterday that one of their fastest growing services is Amazon Connect. One of our best use cases is for task workers and call centers. You might imagine that there's going to be a future there that we should be looking at. And so I do see the things that they're innovating becoming relevant to us in ways that are more than just about the infrastructure as a way to power servers, storage, and networking for Citrix environments but also becoming content, rich content, both Amazon-owned rich content and their SaaS ecosystem that's built on Amazon, all those startups they talked about this morning, all of them running in our Citrix Workspace. It requires us to have the right networking solutions in place, the right identify trust solutions in place and make it really easy for customers to consume as a service instead of a pile of bits that they get to construct themselves. >> Well Matt and Marissa, we thank you for joining us on theCUBE today at re:Invent telling us what's new with Citrix and what's new with the evolution of the partnership. Thanks for your time. >> It's a pleasure to be here. >> Thank you. >> For Stu Miniman, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from AWS re:Invest 19. We'll be right back.

>>Locke from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Well, welcome back to the cube live here in Las Vegas for AWS reinvent 2019 it's the cubes seventh year, eighth year of reinvent. We've been there almost from the beginning. I'm John ferry with Dave Volante extracting the signal from the noise. The two great guests here chew senior leaders, VMware, auntie that were Sanjay Poonan, COO of VMware cube alumni, Mike Clayville, vice president of worldwide commercial sales and business development for AWS guys. You're the senior leaders out on the field making things happen. I got to say the AWS VMware relationship, which we covered a couple of years ago when Gelsinger and Jassy were doing the little love Fest, they're in San Francisco. A lot of people were skeptical. This show here, we're hearing things like, that's my Superbowl moment. Things are working great. Cloud is scaling, so congratulations and welcome to the cube. Good to see you. Thank you. Yeah. All right, so let's get to the relationship. >>Talk about you guys' relationship and how it's morphed into such a success. We're hearing great feedback. The numbers on the research at day's been digging into shows. Customer spend is up. Is that the wave of cloud? Is that the integration? Sanjay, what's going on? Give us, gives you up to, Oh, I think we're delighted. You know Mike obviously and I have been friends for years. He's had some connections with VMware in his past that certainly helped in setting up this partnerships. So we're grateful to Mike and Andy and the team for that and it's, you know, two and a half to three years now since we announced it. Tremendous amount of customer interest. Listen, you know we said at the beginning of this, when you take sort of the King of the public cloud and the King, the private cloud together and don't force customers to say these have to be separate doors, you're going to do them both together. >>Customers liked that message and what we've been really doing over the course of the last 1218 months is perfecting use cases for this platform. I think to us, the key word is migrations. Cloud migrations. When people are moving their workloads off an app off VMware vSphere or cloud foundation, we want this to be the best place for it to land. We are McCloud in AWS for migration opportunity and anything short of that refactoring app would we, you know, not something that would be a good use of people's time and money because they should be then modernizing with all the wonderful services that Amazon's built, one they've migrated. So we've really perfected our message in the course of the last six, 12 months to two M's, migrate and modernize, migrate and modernize. So we could migrate you into this Avenue and then modernize with a set of container and other services. So that messes working. We put on stage at VMworld and there are many of them here, two big Amazon customers, VMware cloud, Amazon, Freddie Mac and IHS market. And they were telling our tens of thousands customers at those shows and similarly many of them here, that that's the best option to be able to do things. >>Yeah, it's great. It's great by the way, because it's a frictionless migration, right? So you've got a platform that same code base working on pram, same cloud based and cloud creating a seamless integration between the two platforms. We're finding customers very in enthralled by that. I say they say they love that because it's less disruptive for them. Yeah. But at the same time they say, but eventually I want to change my operating model to really drive profits to my bottom line. So could you talk a little bit about what that journey looks like? And I'm really interested in longer term Sanjay, how you play in that. I look Mike, sorry. So the first thing I'd say that one of the real reasons I love it is because they've got a big investment today and that investment is in skills. That investment is in operational processes. That investment is in licensing and all of that comes along with them on their journey. Whether it's a migration journey or a migration to modernize journey, it's working. So when you're talking about the bottom line, like you are, this is a great play for that bottom line. >>Yeah, I know. And I'd say, listen, from our perspective, we want to take a Freddie Mac. When they spoke at VMworld, they have I think 800 applications, 50 of whom are SAS and the other 750 are custom built, deep Lee virtualized and they're going to move all of them over the course of the next 12 months. I fell off my chair when I, when I heard how fast they planned to do it. IHS market has very a variety of very spread accounts and Amazon. Now we're going to help them move a lot of their workloads there. Once they're there, we want them to then use the tools that Amazon's bill. I'll give you two examples, maybe some of their backup tools into S3 CloudWatch some of their analytical monitoring types of tools. So there's going to be, and then of course AI database services and the best place once you've moved it there is to make sure that that migrated stack is stable. >>You have the best of the VMware tools, V center, V motion, all you know and the best of the Amazon tools. So when people start to see this, I think the myth of Sarah's saying refactor and replatform that application, which is in essence like taking a home. Okay. And having to destroy the home and completely rebuild it. Right? And that's just a meal, a waste of money and time when you could migrate it and then modernize it. So we just need to get that story well understood. Get our, you know, I, I mean Amazon probably has a few million customers. We have a half a million customers. If all of those customers can hear the story and beginning their journey with us, I think we will tip this in a way. Starting >>to tip, to get the, back to the point of your question as well. Look, our two companies have been engineering these solutions together deeply. So this just isn't a paper arbiters. Yeah. This is an engineering partnership that started years ago and what that means is as customers migrate to a beam ware on AWS, now they have access to over 175 AWS services, can it, right. Significant native access to a broad range of services that they can continue to innovate, identify new business models and it all seamlessly integrates back into a single platform. >>Yeah. One of the things I always said when I talked to Andy and Amazon folks is that the competitive advantage of the businesses scale and also the new announcements that come in. So one of the things we heard yesterday from a customer, uh, one of your joint customers was, you know, I asked him about outpost, which you guys now are going to ship in 2020, which was announced you already got native outpost, general availability. He goes, look it, we'd love VMware. We could probably look at VMware and kind of poke at things, maybe do things differently. But frankly I don't want to have to rearchitect my stack because I want the data science stuff from studio a Sage maker studio because the demand for the business results is coming in from the new capabilities. So this seems to be the trend where the migration is just lift and shifts, keep the operational flow going, foundation and the business value over the top is whatever you guys can bring in from an NSX and then the apps. Is this something that you're hearing more of? Because this points to all of us, the discussion around the platform is irrelevant because the business value is coming in from the data. Yeah. What, how do you guys react to that? Is that something that you're hearing? >>Well, the first thing I would say is the, you know, the pundents will tell you that by 2020 90% of customers will be in a hybrid model. So you know, the migration is, you talk about is in play and, and arguably 2020 will be the year of the most migrations in history if those pendants are correct. Right. And so that gets a lot of customers in the mode of being able to leverage a BMC and then be able to take advantage of all the, you know, the extensive amount of data services we have available. But if you ask me, where do you know, what are the, what are the big reasons driving the migration? It's traditional economics, right? It's, I'm, I don't need to be a capital expense heavy organization anymore. Why do I have to build data centers? Why do I have to extend data centers? Why am I building, why am I buying air conditioning that's not differentiating my business? Right? All of those things are creating drivers for this migration. Now as you begin the migration, that's when you begin to see, wow, imagine the simplicity of the same code base, same operational processes. I don't have to retrain a bunch of people just moving it right onto the cloud and now let me really dig in to the new services available from AWS. Look for those new business. >>I suppose having that focus of differentiation and VMware and saying, let's keep it and expand it to the edge and do things like that. And yeah, absolutely. I mean, listen, I think they had Cerner yesterday on stage and I think it was interesting to hear the CEO, they're talking about three verbs, migrated, modernize, and innovate. I mean that's the thing thing. So I think when you, when you start to see that becoming a very active dialogue, not just from CEOs but from CEOs and boards that are saying, listen, you know, part of the reason we want to move to the cloud is an increase our bruiser agility. It's not just a cost reduction. Yeah. I mean I don't need to have 80 data centers have, I could have half a zero a one or two so that I get, but beyond cost, if we can kind of get agility going faster. >>And for many of these folks, I think when I sit down in their customer advisory councils, when I, when we are advising them, they're all trying to serve their customers better, get data to become sort of the oil of their ability to make decisions better and AI and analytics sort of help in that area. And then of course, getting more efficient in lowering costs and risks. And I think when you're doing it, the scale that both of us have experienced doing, we understand data centers really well. We've software defined them for 20 years. These guys understand cloud probably better than anybody else. When we bring that sort of scale together and as Mike pointed out, a deeply engineered solution, we have a, we have a significant R and D investment in this and we're doing that jointly with them. When I often sit down in our joint QPRs, I joke about it with Mike and Andy and others, I sometimes forget, is that a VMware person speaking or an Amazon person because there's finishing each other's sentences. So there's a lot of that joint trust they've built and we just now have to keep showing that this is a solution that's innovating every three months because you're running on monthly and quarterly cycles and get large customers. I mean to us now, it's less so about the noise of getting everybody on stage. It's much more of a showing customer attraction. >>So I wonder if we could talk about one of the other big problems in the industry. Mikey talked about deep engineering and you guys are, you know, you're never done right, but you've solved that problem or solving that problem of making it easy for customers, VM-ware customers to run in the cloud. There's another big problem it could be concerned about customers is security and there seems to be somewhat of a dissonance. And I wonder if you could share with us maybe some of the thinking around this. So Steven Schmidt for instance, who is Amazon CSO says, Hey, the state of security in the cloud is, is great. And it is, it's, you know, you don't have a lot of technical debt coming in to the game. Pat Gelsinger is saying, Hey, you know, security, the state of security in my world is broken. So what's the conversation with you guys in terms of addressing that big concern on the minds of CEOs? And >>yeah, I'll start and they might feel free to add them. Thomas, I mean we've talked to Steve, we're like Steve, he's a very, he's a, he's an innovator and a thought leader in security. We're coming at it from a place that's complimentary to some of the point of views of, of Amazon. Um, and I shared this at our last VM world discussion. When we look at the, the, the control points of security where traditional security spent network, endpoint, identity, cloud and analytics, those are five, four control points where a lot of security is spent inside the $50 billion security market. We picked two that we're going to do really well. The network and endpoint NSX has been doing really well there. Now granted a bunch of that is on prem. It's replacing or complimenting Cisco, Palo Alto, checkpoint fire, a flash for a railroad bed, F five NetScaler spent. >>And now that business 13,000 customers in has become a 40, 50% of its security use cases. The network we just acquired, carbon black aide runs on the Amazon platform. It runs, uh, a next gen endpoint security. That's, you know, an evolution from the old world of Symantec, McAfee, you know, and there were only two vendors doing this at scale carbon black and CrowdStrike, we built, we built, we bought the better one. So when you put those together and collect a significant amount of telemetry from that, we think we could do something highly differentiated and security. So VMware, his goal and to the extent that Amazon or others are doing things in security that compliment our view of it, we'll build on it, right? Whether it's identity and access tools, whether it's load balancers, whether it's security, event management capabilities. >>Well we're in, we're integrating those two into the security in the cloud, which makes it seamless security, which is critical. >>Goal would be, listen, when we go and when we talked about this is what we're doing, security, we go to Mike and Andy and Steve and said, listen, this is our ambitions and security. We don't view Amazon as a competitor. And that's why he's very much complimented. They'll will be on the fringes. They have a load balancer. We now have a cloud. But that's okay. But that's the bigger part. If they were going off for endpoint security, as we be competitive there, if they were going up in network secure, but they're not. So I think when we share our intents, which we do very openly, we have open kimono sessions. He, this is where we are, this is where we're going. That's what we, and we go deep in that >>trust luck, but this is a historic partnership. This is not a partnership that I've seen anywhere in the industry in my 35 years. This is something that's at the next level and I think you'll look back, history will look back at this partnership and and recognize that its impact on cloud is going to be substantial. >>You hope you guys deserve a lot of credit and again, the critics were critical of the announcement. We were obviously favor, we saw the vision, but I think what surprised me most is that the spend numbers reflect is you guys clarified your cloud play with this move. The customers saluted it 100% they were on board and the numbers are showing it, but as Andy and you guys go to the next level, I got to get your thoughts on this trend of transformation. We have two means. We started in the cube this week. One was if you take the T out of cloud native, it's cloud naive. And the other one is what I said in my post about being reborn in the cloud. So you've got born in the cloud, startups and growth and enterprises were becoming reborn, okay? In the cloud, which means they're transforming. >>So as that trillions of dollars that are coming into the migration, you look at the numbers, there's only 20% of it spend in cloud. Roughly give or take. You're talking about trillions of dollars of new money. You guys are the commercial guys. Hey look, it's still day one for the cloud. It's still day one. I agree. You have a lot of people who might not make the migration, might die of starvation. Okay? As they move to the new model, you guys are out there have to take and you're going to go get that cash. What are you guys seeing? Cause this is a big trillions and trillions of dollars are on the table. You started Mike off. Well look. So, >>you know, uh, Sanjay talked about you see these customers and how enthusiastic they are about the opportunity here, right? And, and Freddie Mac's a great example of 100 million lines of code, and I've got to get out of three data centers in 24 months. Bam, they're out in 10, 10 months, 10 months, right? Um, 100 million lines of code over hundreds of, of applications done in 10 months. Now imagine the rest that the company can do now that they got that behind him, right? And that's what we're seeing is this partnership enables our customers to get a bunch done very economically, much faster, and now they can get onto the other things that they need to do. >>Yeah. And I'd build on that. Listen, you know, we track about a trillion dollars of it spend. And if you add up all of the cloud spend today, it's probably a, I mean, Amazon and Salesforce are probably the biggest in infrastructure and apps. It's probably 150 billion in total cloud spend, maybe 200 billion. So that's 15 to 20% of the total it spend, which is massive, but it's still as, as my points, that's early innings is that 20% it's probably going to become 50% at some point soon, right? If you look at the pace at which the cloud companies are growing, so the key question is, is going to go as 150 billion, the 1 trillion total number is going to grow, but probably a little bit faster and GDP most every 5% max, who's going to go grab that 150 Boone as it goes from 150 billion to 500 billion and the on premise spend slows down. >>Right? Um, I think that, you know, I think Amazon is very well positioned and from our perspective at VMware, we have a, you know, 10 $11 billion business. We're trying to tilt this increasingly more cloud. We announced our earnings call, 13% of it now is hybrid cloud and SAS, that 13% should become 2025 50. They are a pure cloud company. 100% of their businesses is cloud. We're in that transition. But why are we in that transition? Because we see that 150 billion of it spend likely becoming 500 billion. And if we don't get it somebody else's well hybrids, are we a tailwind for you guys? Because outpost is actually a statement that says hybrid at the edge. Now the data centers an edge, you've got edge. What is an edge? So cloud operations is now the standard and we, I mean, we actually coined the term hybrid six years ago and everyone could five, six years ago and everyone really laughed at us and now I think it's being validated. So it's, it's very gratifying now that Amazon has a similar vision to hybrid as us. Uh, we believe both the VMware cloud on Amazon outpost and BMR cloud running on outpost, we're very committed to that joint vision. >>Yeah. You're talking about the spending data and you know, VMware yet another revenue hit. I was pretty consistent in that and that standpoint. But if you look at the spending data, virtually every sort of traditional company with very few exceptions is you're seeing a share shift to the cloud. VMware is an exception. It didn't use to be that way a couple of years ago, but you're embracing the cloud really changed and became, you may cloud a tailwind right now to headwind. >>I think this partnership helped in that area and you put it right, right. Everything in life is either an opportunity or a threat. I think, and I've talked about it in your show before, cloud and containers were a significant threat. When I joined Amazon, sorry, when I was partners with Amazon, I joined VMware six years ago. I asked Pat and I said, listen, I think the threats to VMR, Amazon and Docker in 2013 now Docker is a whole different story. Kubernetes took their head out. Uh, but to our credit we joined credit, we partnered here and I think from our perspective, see, we at VMware aren't able to do a complete pivot like Adobe did to say burn the boats on, on premise and completely shift everything. SAS. Why? Because customers still want NSX on prem. Customers still want our HCI product on prem. People are still buying vSphere on prem. >>So we've got this more delicate balance of starting to shift and on-prem business. The aircraft carrier, you know at the time, 5,000,000,005, six years ago now, 11 billion to something that's a blend of on prem and cloud. While the cloud part grows a lot faster, that 13% of revenue we announced our earnings call is growing 40% yeah. So we can keep that growing foster and foster while the on-prem business is not decaying, it's still growing but not growing at the same pace, plus changing its end, make that transition a few years from now to being a lot more of a cloud company. >>The other thing you're seeing in the spending data, I wonder if you could comment is, you know, digital initiatives really started in earnest, let's say 2016 and people were doing a lot of experimentation. They were throwing everything for the new stuff against the wall. And what we're seeing now is they're narrowing the new and they were keeping the legacy stuff around because they were sort of running in parallel to hedge their bets. What we're seeing now is less experimentation in the new, and they're starting to unplug some of the older stuff. What they're not unplugging is cloud and they're hanging on to VMware and we're seeing, you know, spending levels revert to pre 2018 levels. I wonder what you guys are seeing at the macro. >>Well, the first thing I would say is I see experimentation continuing to accelerate, right? All of the new functionality that we bring out every day. Everybody's excuse, you're the sandbox for us. It's very invigorating because we love people to experiment and, uh, and we, you know, a lot of those experiments turned into amazing new startups as an example. And, or a bunch of those experiments turned into major new project projects in our, in our big, uh, enterprises. So we're continuing to see a real push towards experimentation and driving agility into the business. I don't know. Yeah, >>no, I, well, Mike, I'd agree. I mean, listen, we in some senses, uh, we have a very good strong, you know, on-premise business and when we see a really innovative company that's in the order of 33 35%, that's already 35 three 35 billion growing in the forties 30 to 40% I mean that's incredible. When we see companies like Salesforce and Adobe that are giant SAS companies approaching, you know, 10 1115 20 billion growing 2020 5% I think that infrastructure is a service and SAS business for us are trailblazers of where this cloud is headed now, these, the biggest companies in infrastructure and in SAS and we follow that. Now we have to then navigate to say, listen, the growth rates and the spending is going to be reflected by cloud spend that's heavily spending on there. And the way in which the on premise world is what spending, we have a bunch of hardware companies, we work very closely. >>We're watching how that spending is, is playing OD, whether it's Cisco, whether it's HP, whether it's Lenovo, Dell and others. And then of course we've got VM. We're sitting right in between and I think what we're trying to manage as you got a whole world of on-prem driven primarily by hardware companies. You've got a bunch of these cloud new companies, Amazon, Salesforce, Adobe, and we have a right in the middle saying, okay, listen, we want to be dragged by both while many of our customers still want some on prem. It's a delicate balance, but there's no, um, I mean we are very clear within VMware. We want to be led by a cloud first policy wherever we can. I'll give you an example. Workspace one, manage these devices. We want a company five years ago named AirWatch, why did we buy them versus somebody else? >>It was cloud. It was cloud-first that business now and use a computing has stilted itself to be primarily cloud-based, very subscription-based. It was on premise VDI at the time Mike was at the company six, seven years ago. It's become now completely cloud based on the back of a workspace one, you know, kind of thing. So that's how we're thinking about it. The new acquisitions we've done, whether it's carbon black, whether it's Velo club, it's CloudHealth. They're all cloud-based. Well, you guys made a good bet on cloud operations. That's the real shift. The cloud operation model is right in your wheelhouse. You guys have operators, VMware, you guys have cloud operations everywhere now edge with outpost. Congratulations. I want to say, Sanjay, it's been a great journey with you. You've been with the cube all 10 years. All seven years. We've been actually the 10 year anniversary. >>We've been documenting the history. Wow. The historic moments like you guys together writing AWS, really appreciate it. and of course that was good to see more action coming. Cloud 2.0 next gen. Cloud competition controversies. I mean what? You can't ask for a better movie here. John. Dave, I'm going to, we're going to bring mugs next time. Okay. We're going to have mugs.. I'm John for Dave a lot. They saw Jay Poon and Mike Clayville, the leaders, senior leaders of AWS and VMware out with their customers here on the queue. This is our AWS Intel set in the middle of the floor here at reinvent 2019 our seventh year. Thanks for watching more coverage day two of the queue. We'll be right back.

>> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's The Cube, covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by Citrix. >> Welcome back to The Cube. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend, continuing The Cube's two day coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019. We are very excited to be speaking with one of the Citrix innovation award nominees, ZF Group. We've got Walter Scherer, senior manager of IT workplace foundation. Hi Walter. >> Hello, nice to be here. >> And Greg Lehofer, manager of client virtualization. Greg, great to have you on The Cube. >> Thank you very much. >> So, first congratulations to ZF Group for the Innovation Award nomination. We hear there were over one thousand nominees. Pretty exciting to get to the top three, one of the top three finalists. So Walter let's start with you, tell our audience who ZF is and what you're doing with Citrix. >> So ZF is a global system provider, we enable next generation of mobility. So for us it's very important to invest in technology fields like integrated safety, electricity, like automated driving, that's very important for us so we see the future, the world will change so we see it every day and therefore it's very very important for us that we push innovation, that we push internet of things, and we push the digitalization. That's a must for us. >> So you guys are supplying a company that supplies systems for IC, your passenger cars, commercial vehicles and industrial technology. >> Yeah. >> Across Germany or is this to cross Europe? >> That's globally so we have around 40 confidants where we have locations. Where we have well organized globally and therefore it's very important for us to bring the right product for the future, for our customer. >> Wow so Greg tell us about the landscape, that's 40 countries, tell us how big is the infrastructure to support all of them? >> It's very big, so the transformation of IT is very important for us as Walter mentioned before, so yeah we start to build up a bigger infrastructure now, a virtual infrastructure because in the past we have a lot of water in place and so it's all from from ZF and now we are able that the external service providers and we have a lot of external service provider in place around the globe so that they can bring their own devices now in ZF and can use virtual desktops and so yeah for us the effort is not too big because the infrastructure is more central at the moment and so yeah, we are searching for new ways how we can make that more efficient for us and more easier and manage them and yeah we are looking at cloud infrastructures at the moment and yeah we are working very close together with Citrix and that technology and yeah, for us we are very proud that we are now nominated for the prize and yeah. >> So again about scale, how many partners worldwide do you have? So number of devices connecting to your infrastructure, how big is your customer base? >> So we have a lot of customers there so for our project because of course you mentioned, so we have off-road vehicles, we have product concerning the automotive areas, we have commercial areas so that's a lot of individual customers that we all have there. So and therefore we have to bring the right outcome so with Microsoft or with Citrix technologies and of course with the partnership with Microsoft that's very important too for us and so we have to bring the right infrastructure in place, especially in the user centric experience approach that's very important too for us and therefore we have the good partnership with Citrix so and with Citrix we have a really big and powerful systems in place, product to portfolio, so that will help us in this journey. >> Let's talk about that journey Greg, when you started working with Citrix to virtualize the environment, talk to us about how you went about that from a mobility perspective and what is that enabling your business to achieve for your customers? >> For our customers you have global graphic we have customers all over the world, they are always on airports and traveling around the world and so it's very important for us that we are transformate the IT in that way that the customer is able to work all over the world, anytime anywhere with any device. It's very important for the customers and for a new generation X to work with every device and yeah there is big transformation at the moment in place so yeah we with Citrix it's make it easier for us that we can provide all customers with every device a workplace or an application, that application the customers need or our employees need to work to collaborate all over the world with other engineers and so on on collaborate topics and on tasks and on projects and yeah with that technology, with private cloud and now with public clouds they are able to work with all kinds of devices everywhere in a secure way, and that is important for us because security is one of the important factors for us because when you are traveling all around the world and connecting from every place, security in our perspective yeah, it's very important and so with that technology-- >> And if you are looking for the flexible platforms that's very important, the solutions that Citrix have embized with The Cloud system so that brings us in the situation that we could manage all the platforms that we have in place locally today and if you connected to The Cloud. So therefore we have a common plan so to administrate and manage all the Citrix environments. >> So I imagine there's a large range of applications that you're deploying, you guys seem to provide a lot of services, what type of application data and tasks are happening remotely with your users? Like what's a typical transaction that a user will conduct while they're sitting at a airport? >> So that's what Gregor said so that's very important with the device strategy to treat the promote it with any device anywhere and to each time so and therefore we could provide a virtual desktop so that's independent from the device so we have maybe for collaboration that's a very similar topic, so we have solutions for our third parties, for the contractors and so it could give them a small solution, the Citrix mobile desktop, the mobile app so they have the possibility to connect to ZF and the infrastructure and so we are very flexible about that. So the only what they need, they need a device, they need a browser that's it. So that's the solution from Citrix. >> In terms of the operational efficiencies that you have presumably gained from working with Citrix, sounds like your users as well as your end-user customers are benefiting from the virtualized infrastructure that you've put in place, but talk to us about from an operational perspective, how much more efficient is your organization now? >> From our perspective, it's more efficient because as I mentioned before in the past they we have to give all our external service providers as an example hardware from ZF, and so it's a very big benefit, a lot of doings for our IT to prepare the desktop to make them secure the hardware and so on and now we are not longer responsible for that order because the external bring their own hardware and we only provide them a VDI on a secure way, a NetScaler gateway in that case and though they can connect and we only take care about our workplace and they take care of their hardware and so yeah for us it's much better because our effort is not so big and that is very good and yeah, and so as an example the workplace from Citrix, the new, it's very, very good for our customers because the users intrecities is very high because a lot of tools or applications they need has put the time SAP and read the emails, have a look at the chat, have a look at teams and so on, it's all in one platform and saves a lot of time. And time, everybody knows is very important for us and yeah when we can save time it's very perfect for us. >> Let's dive into that time savings, how long does it take you to onboard a new partner now versus before you had Citrix? >> Now-- >> For the deposit there was a lot of processes and they need I would say days, so in the meantime we have to push a party so internal SATA should automatically create an image, a VDI for example for the the customer, that's it. So and of course in the background we have to set the right direction, the right access, what systems they have in use, (mumbles) and that's it. >> So it sounds like it takes the business processes longer to onboard a customer like, so you have to sign a deal, get involved with a partner and IT it sounds like it's moving way faster than the actual business itself. >> Yeah as I mentioned it's a very fast process in the mean time so you have a portal you could go there so that to request what they need and then there's automatic behind that and so we could create automatically this request for him. >> So it used to take days to onboard a partner, now with Citrix workspace, it's hours, minutes to onboard a partner, how much time can you quantify that time savings? >> I would say if you consider the whole process, it needs some hours so because it's not only the Citrix onboarding, the Citrix onboarding goes very fast. So then the you have to create the operating system and so on, the imaging, so to bring the applications to the client, what they need I would say that needs hours. >> Or days to hours, so big time savings and also what you were talking about Greg I couldn't help but think that now that you don't have to provide all of this hardware to your partners, there's probably a massive cost savings as well that ZF has achieved, can you talk about that? >> Absolutely, from the cost perspective we save a lot of money and the other benefit is that the external can bring the hardware we'll work with. So normally we have one device and the external have to work with that and now he can bring his-- >> Whatever they choose. >> Right right, yeah right. Any device and that is very benefit for them because they can work with smart phones, they can work with tablet or they can work with a notebook as they like and from our perspective, yeah as you mention before you save a lot of money because it's yeah we only have to provide the virtual desktop and yeah we can provide them in a very quick way and we have workflows for that and yeah it's great for us. >> What feedback have they given you now that the process is so much faster for them but also they're able to use whatever device they're already familiar with, I imagine from a customer satisfaction perspective this new experience that you're enabling has really probably driven up your customer loyalty. The customers happier, more satisfied? >> The customers more happier of course so and the important topic for us is the customer is happy, they have a fast solution, it is mobile so and we have the access under control, that's very interesting for us. >> Well making your customers happy is always a top priority and we hear that you're doing that very well, we want to congratulate ZF on your nomination. >> Thank you very much. >> For the Innovation Award, we know that the voting goes through till tomorrow when the winner will be announced, we wish you the best of luck and thank you both for joining Keith and me on The Cube this afternoon. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, for Keith Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube, live from Citrix Synergy 2019, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(light music) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is a special CUBE Conversation here in SiliconANGLE Media's, Palo Alto Studio. Happy to bring back to the program Haseeb Budhani who, last time I talked to Haseeb, Haseeb worked at a number of interesting startups, been a Chief Product Officer, had many various roles, and today, is a founder and CEO. So, we always love to have back CUBE alums, especially doing interesting things, getting out there with that entrepreneurial spirit, so, Haseeb, great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Great to see you and the first time you and I met, the stage was not as nice as this. That was many, many, many years ago. >> You know, we've been growing up a bit, just like the ecosystems around us. You and I talked about things like replication, changing with data and storage and everything else in various roles so, Rafay Systems, tell us a little bit. What was the inspiration? Tell us a little bit about the founding team, the why the company first. >> Sure. As you know, right before Rafay Systems, I started a company called Soha. Soha was acquired by Akamai 18 odd months ago. I think we all, we learn by failing. There was one specific thing we did very poorly at Soha, which was how we ran operations, how we thought about getting closer to our users and so on, that once we left Akamai, so my co-founder from Soha and I are doing this company again together, he was our VP of Attorney there, he's our VP of Attorney here. When we left Akamai after our stint there, we spent time thinking about what kind of applications have, when you kind of think in terms of an application stack, some microservices in an application stack are always going to need to be as close to the end point as possible. So we were trying to figure out who has that problem and how do they solve it. So, here's what we found. Many, many applications have this problem, nobody knows how to solve it well. I mean, if you think Siri, there's an edge that Apple is running for that. If you think eBay, there's transactions happening in region and so on. Or when you think IoT, there are edges being created in the IoT world, and we wanted to come up with a framework or a platform to solve these problems well for all these different application developers. So we came up with the concept that we call the Programmable Edge. The idea is that we want to help our customers run certain microservices, the ones that are latency sensitive, as close to their end points as possible. And an end point could be a car, it could be a phone, it could be a sensor, doesn't matter what it is, but we want to help them get their applications out as quickly as possible. >> Yeah. Before we get into some of the technology, Rafay Systems, Soha Systems, where did the names for these come from? >> Soha is my daughter's name. Rafay is my son's name. We have two kids. I don't know what I'm going to do after this. I need a job. I don't know what I'm going to do after this company. But, actually, our VP Marketing at Soha, he was the one who wanted to use his name. So when we started the previous company, I called it Bubble Wrap, because I thought we were wrapping apps in a bubble, I thought that was really cool. Everybody hated it. (laughs) >> Yeah, there are too many puns on popping the bubble or things like that, it would be challenging. >> I thought it was, I still think it's awesome, but nobody liked it. So, he was looking for a name and we had hired a new agency, they were ready to roll out a new website, we didn't have a name. So, in, like, a four hour window, we had to come up with something. He says, "That's a short enough name "and looks like you own the domain anyway, "let's just use that." Of course, my kids love it. Then once we started the second company, it had to be named after my son. >> Your daughter wasn't a little upset that you sold off the company and now have nothing to do with it? >> It was a pretty healthy outcome so I think she's fine. (both laughing) >> Excellent. Talking about microservices applications around the globe. I was at the Adobe Summit recently and, you're right, it's a very different conversation than, say, ZDNs in the past. But it's, "How many instances do I have? "How do I manage that? "What's their concern?" Networking's always been one of those underlying challenges. Think back to the failed XSPs in the 90s, (Haseeb laughs) and when Cloud started 10 plus years ago, it was like, "Oh, are we going to be able to handle that today?" Think back to Citrix and their NetScaler product is one of those secret sauce things in there that those of us in the networking space really understand it but most people, "Oh, SAS is going to be great "and things will just work anywhere on any device anywhere." But there's some real challenges there. >> Haseeb: Absolutely. >> What's that big gap in the market and are there other companies that are trying to help solve this? >> I used to work in NetScaler a long time ago. I don't know if you brought it up because of that, but I think it's an incredibly amazing product that became the foundation of many things. I think two things are happening in our industry that allow companies like ours to exist, at least from an applications perspective. One is containers, the fact that we are now able to package things not as big, fat VMs, but smaller, essentially, process level things. And then microservices, the fact that we have this notion of loose coupling between services and you can have certain APIs that expose things to each other. And if you at least thematically think about it, if there's a loose coupling it can extend them out so long as I get more value out of doing so. And that, fundamentally, is what we think is an interesting thing happening out there. The fact that there are loose couplings, the fact that applications are no longer monolithic allows us to make better decisions about what needs to run where. The challenge is how do you make that happen? The example I always share with people is, let's say, let's imagine for a second that you have access to 100,000 regions all around the world. You have edges everywhere, 100,000 locations where you can run your code. What do you do next? How do you decide which ones you need? Do you need 5,000? Do you need 80,000? That needs to be solved by the platform. We are at a point now, particularly when it comes to locations, that these are no longer decisions that an Ops Team can make. That has to be driven by the platform and the platform that we are envisioning is going to help our customers, basically, in terms of where the code goes, how they think about performance, et cetera. These are things that will be expressed as a policy to our platform and we help them determine where the location should be and so on. >> Alright. Haseeb, I think many of us lost too many hours fighting in the industry of, what was cloud, What wasn't cloud, various definitions, those ontological discussions, academically they make sense. Heck, when I talk to customers today it's not like, "Well, I'm figuring out my public cloud strategy," or this and that. They have a cloud strategy because there's various pieces in there to connect. Edge is one of those. I haven't heard that people don't like the term, but if I'll talk to seven different companies, Edge means a very different thing to all of them. You and I reconnected actually when we'd both written similar articles that said, "Well, Edge does not kill the public cloud." Peter Levine wrote a very interesting piece with that eye-catching title that was like, "Well, Edge is going to have trillions of devices "and there'll be more data at the Edge than anywhere else." And it's like, okay, yes, yes, yes, but that does not mean that public cloud evaporates tomorrow, right? Nice try, Amazon, good luck on your next business. (laughs) Maybe give us a little bit your definition of Edge, but, more importantly, who are the type of customers that you're talking to and what is the opportunity and challenges of that Edge environment? >> Sure. So let's talk about what Edge means. I think we both agree that the word edge is a misnomer and depends. There are many kinds of edges, if you will. A car for a Tesla, that's an edge, right? Because they are running compute jobs on the car. I use the phrase device edge to describe that thing, the car is a device edge. You're also going to have the car talking to things out there somewhere. If two cars are interacting with each other, you don't want that interaction or the rendezvous point for that interaction being very, very far away, you want to be somewhere close by. I call that the infrastructure edge. Now, infrastructure edge, since you asked, I'm going to go down that rabbit hole, you could be running at the edge of the internet. So think Equanex or Digital or anybody who's got massive pairing presence and so on. So that's the internet edge, as far as infrastructure is concerned. But if you talk to an AT&T, because you said depending on who you talk to their idea is different, in AT&T's mind or Verizon's mind, maybe the base station is the edge, so I call that the wireless edge. Again, infrastructure. So, at a very high level, there is the device edge, there is the infrastructure edge, and then there's a cloud. Applications will span all of these things. It's not one or the other, that doesn't make any sense. Any application will have workloads that are best run in Amazon or, of course, now I think we use Amazon like TiVo, Amazon means public cloud. >> Stu: Like Kleenex. (laughs) >> Like Kleenex. >> Exactly. >> Some things will run in the core, and some things will run in the middle, and then some things will run at the edge. Now in this kind of discussion, I didn't describe another kind of edge which is the IoT edge. Within a factory, or some gas location or some oil and gas facility out there where maybe you don't even have good connectivity back to the internet. They're going to probably have an edge on prem at the factory edge. That too is a necessity. So you have lots of data being generated, they're going to put it in that location. So we should maybe stop thinking in terms of an edge, it just depending on the application that you're targeting, that application's sub-components may need to run in different places, but that makes it so much harder. We couldn't even figure out how to run things in a single region in Amazon, or two, people still have trouble running across availability zones in Amazon. Now we're saying, "Hey, you're going to have four edges, "or five edges, and you're going to have 100 locations," how is this going to work? And that is the challenge. That's, of course, the opportunity as well, because there are applications out there, I talked about the car use case, which seems to be a real use case for many car companies, particularly the ones who are going autonomous with their fleets. They have this challenge. Lots of data being generated and they need to process it as quickly as possible because there's lots of noise on the wire. This data problem, data is gravity, you want to, instead of moving data to a location where there is compute, you want to move compute as close to the data as possible. That's the trend I look for when we're looking for customers. Who has lots of data/traffic being generated at the edge? That could be a sensor company, probably do a number of IoT companies that are pushing data up and it turns out that it's a lot of data or they have compliance challenges, they're going to have PAI come out of a region. So these are some of the use cases we were looking at. These use cases are new use cases, even in older applications, there are needs that can be fulfilled with an edge. Here's an example I tend to use to describe the problem, not that this is a use case. When I talk to OVC and I'm trying to explain to them why an edge matters, at least thematically, I ask the question; if you go to an e-commerce site, how much time do you spend buying versus browsing? What is your answer? >> The buying is a very small piece of it. >> Yeah. >> But it's the most important part. >> 99% of the time is spent looking at read-only stuff. Why do we need to go back to the core if you're not buying? What if the inventory could be pushed to the edge and you can just interact and look at the inventory, and when you make a purchase decision that goes to the core? That's what's possible with the edge. In fact, I believe that some number of years down the line, that's how all applications are going to behave. The things that are read-only, state management, state validation, cookie validation for example, for authentication, these are things that are going to happen at the edge of the internet or wherever the edge happens to be, and then actual purchase decisions or state change decisions will happen in the core. >> Alright. Haseeb, explain to us where in the stack your solution fits. You mentioned everything from the hyper-scale clouds to Equanex out to devices in cars and the like, so where is your layer? Where is your secret sauce? >> So we expect to sit at the internet edge, once the wireless edge is a real thing 5G becomes out there, we expect to sit somewhere there, somewhere between the internet edge. We are, the way we think about this is there are aggregation points, on the internet, in the network, where you have need to put compute so you can make aggregate decisions across multiple devices. That's where we are building our company. In terms of the stack, we are essentially helping our customers run their compute. Think of us as a platform where customers can bring their code, if you will. Because at the end of the day it's computing. Yes, it's about traffic and data but you still need to run compute somewhere, so we are helping our customers run that compute at the internet edge or the wireless edge. >> Okay. Are your customers some of the Telcos, MSPs cloud providers and the enterprise or how does that relationship work? >> The ideal customers for us are SAS companies who are running applications on the internet that generate money. They care about performance. And they will pay money if we can cut their performance by whatever factor it happens to be. Providers, service providers, in our mind, are partners for us. So we're engaged actually with a number of providers out there who are trying to figure out how to, basically, monetize their existing infrastructure investments better. And edge is a new concept that has been introduced to them and they, as you know, a lot of providers already have edge strategies and we're trying to getting involved with them to see how we can bring more SAS companies to engage with service providers. Which is a really hard thing today. >> It sounds like you solve problem for some Fortune 1,000 customers too, though? >> Yes. >> So do they get involved also? >> Yes, look, the best way to build a startup is you come up with a thesis and very quickly go find four or five people who absolutely believe in the same thing, and they work with you. So, we've been fortunate enough to find a few folks who say, "Look, this is a problem we've been thinking "about for a while, "let's partner together to build a better solution." That's been going really well. >> Great. So, the company itself, I believe you just launched a few months ago, so. >> Haseeb: We started a few months ago. >> Where is the product? What's the state of the funding? >> How many people do you have? >> Sure. >> How many customers? >> We raised a seed round in November. Seed rounds have gotten larger as well these days. They're like the ACE from 10 years ago. We are at a point now where we are demonstrating our platform to our early customers and by early summer we expect to have people on the platform. So, things are moving fast, but I think this problem is becoming more and more clear to many people. Sometimes people don't call it edge computing, people have all kinds of phrases for it, but when it comes to helping customers get better performance out of their existing stacks, that is a very promising concept to many people running applications on the internet. So we are approaching it from that perspective. Edge happens to be the way we solve the problem, so I guess we're an edge computing company, but end of the day we're trying to make applications run faster on the internet. >> Okay. Last thing, give us a viewpoint the next year or two out, what do you expect to see in this space and how should we be measuring success for your firm? >> Sure. Things always take longer than we think they will. I never want to forget that lesson I learned many years ago. I think, look, it's still early days for edge computing. I think a lot of companies who have been bruised by the problem, in that they've tried to build up pops, or tried to get their logic as close to their end points as possible, are going to be adopting it sooner than others. I think in terms of broader option where any developers tZero thinking of core plus edge, that's a five year out thing, and we should, I mean, that's just out there somewhere. But there's enough companies out there, there's enough new use cases out there in the next couple of years that allow company like ours to exist. In fact, I am quite confident that there are probably five other smart people, smarter than me doing this already. This is a real problem, it needs to be solved. >> Alright, well, Haseeb Budhani, it's great to catch up. Thank you so much for helping us interact with our community, understand where these emerging trends in Edge and everything that happens. Distributed architecture is absolutely our biggest challenges of our time, and I look forward to seeing where you and your customers go in the future. >> Absolutely. Thank you so much, Stu. Appreciate your time. >> Alright. And thank you for joining us. Of course, check out theCUBE.net for all of the videos. Check out wikibon.com where it is absolutely digging in deep to how edge is impacting architectures. Peter Burris, David Floyer and the team digging in deep to understand that more and always love your feedback so feel free to give us any comments back. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (light music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, D.C. It's theCUBE covering DotNext Conference. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to the district everybody, I'm Dave Allante with Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, and we Extract the Signal from the Noise. We're here, this is day two of the Nutanix.NEXTConf, #NEXTConf, Chris Hsu is here, sorry Calvin Hsu is here, VP of Product Marketing at Citrix. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you very much, nice to be here. >> So, you're up on stage earlier today right? A lot of good action here at the show. Talk about Citrix, and what you guys are doing here. >> Yeah, so I think Citrix, Nutanix, we've had a partnership going back for quite awhile. I think what really brought us together were customers that were actually trying to solve this issue, of how do I implement VDI, and how do I do this better right, there has to be a better way. And it's funny, we were just talking about chatting a little bit before about how many different infrastructure pieces and how many different components there are to learn in order to do VDI, and that was one of the things that always kind of stood as a barrier to adoption in some of the early days, going back, I don't know several years now, and they would say, well, you got to have, be an expert in networking, you got to be an expert in storage, you got to know all the server side infrastructure, the virtualization that goes with it, and then you got to also know the desktops, and the app parts of it, and how to manage all that. And in my experience it was all that technical knowledge, but it was also, it was also the people right? So, you also had to bring those people to the table, have one VDI project, go in and talk to a customer, and we're going to do a pilot for 200 people to start, and there'd be 20 people in the room. Because everybody had different areas of responsibility. And so as Nutanix is involved, and the whole idea of hyper-conversion, and HDI that's come around, that's really been some of the basis of where VDI is kind of getting that second booster of, in it's life cycle here, where they're realizing that it could just be a few people that are responsible for that HDI infrastructure, can deploy the VDI, and now they have a more simple reliable way of implementing that solution so (mumbles). >> I mean, that's kind of where, even when I go back to the converged infrastructure world that's, VDI was the one like foothold use case with Vblock's in the early days, and the HPE stuff, or HP then, and you know I have to say, I have to ask both of you guys, because you know this business really well, and you're obviously a VDI expert but, when you talk to customers, they get really excited about VDI, they're like, "Hey, this is a great use case, "we're going to, we're doing VDI, VDI, VDI, "it was a big project effort." When you talk to the analysts they're like, "Uhhh, VDI is so boring." What is it about VDI that there's this bifurcated opinion base right? Analysts uhhhh, okay, but customers eat it up. What's going on, what...? Unpack that for us. >> Well, I mean analysts don't necessarily feel the day-to-day pain of managing a desktop right? That's what it is right, so for them it's a-- >> Well said. >> It's the truth. Well, actually I know, I know some analysts that actually did that job, and so they're the ones that are still excited about it right? But in general, like once you get past the idea of that consulting a client on the complexities, and how do you choose a vendor and, and then it comes down to a few basic things, it's which one's going to deliver the best employee experience with the solution, which one's going to be the best operationally to manage and then sort of their job is done. But then, from a IT Admin perspective it's like they're still, every day they're managing new application update, the new desktop image, and it doesn't end right? And that's dozens and dozens of hours out of every week, every month, that you spend. >> Alright let's hear from the analyst. >> Dave, it was called VDI fatigue. Every year was the year of VDI you know. I think we've gotten beyond that, because I tell you, from my viewpoint, it was wait. It was this mess of a stack, and we're going to fix that. Oh wait, now storage is the mess, now flash is going to solve that, oh wait, mobile adoption is you know, the barrier, yet the opportunity, how do we modernize our applications, the changing workforce, mobile workforce. There were always the next, the next, the next, the next, the next thing and, it reminds me of our conversations with (mumbles) you know, it was like we're never finished, and a lot of it was, it was this big category of you know, you talk about the user experience, is I think, what Citrix is focused on, and how do we make that simpler and you know, so many analysts... The other thing from an analyst is, most analysts focus on a piece of it, and this is very different. I know some analysts focus on like, user experience, and let's look at the application, that's probably closer to where VDI is then, right, if you ask the storage guys they're like ah, VDI. If you ask the desktop people they're like wait, my place is fine so, it's that, it was a really complicated problem, but it's very different today, than it was, and I have to think with Nutanix it is, must've changed in the last five years. >> Absolutely, and well, I think the other thing is that's funny is if you take it back to like 2008 right? Analysts called the VDI game really early, so it's like you're saying every year was the VDI. Before anybody was deploying it in any sort of size, they were already saying it's a, X gazillion billion dollar market and that, and it, I think it's taken awhile for the customers... The customers are still just trying to dealing with some very basic desktop management issues today, and they're probably lagging behind the industry and analysts by three to five years I'd say, right? But what I hear now is, Windows 10 is coming around the horizon, how am I going to manage Windows 10 updates? I've got an Office 365 deployment project on my hands, how am I going to get this all out, how am I going to get the functionality that every one of my end users needs? And it comes around and it's like VDI is a great answer for that, it's a great way to solve that issue. >> Calvin, one of the things that we hear from new (mumbles) customers I mean, they love that kind of one-click simplicity, one-click update, and I hear about you know, Windows 10 is like the roll-out of the next thing, and where things break. How are Citrix and Nutanix working together to solve some of these challenges? >> Yeah, I think that approach of one-click, the automation you know, both the blue-printing types of technology is what we're pulling together. All that sort of automation is really important for, for this type of environment. You know I think the, we're both willing to pull together solutions that really then, drive that simplicity for, for both the infrastructure and the management, ongoing of that solution. It's like for example, we're working together on, work on the district's workspace appliance right? And that's, for us it's not a product name that's really a program, it's a way of defining HCI infrastructure like Nutanix and they're jumping on board with this. To be able to point that thing at the Citrix Cloud, and then download all the resources that it needs in order to run a Citrix workload on it. So it's a very automated way of getting stood up, so that not only is it deployment of the infrastructure, automated and simple, but placing that workload on it, and getting it set to manage, and then even running it and operating it is more like running and operating a Cloud service than it is even operating a local infrastructure for it. >> One of the things that David Floyer from Wikibon, has done a lot of analysis saying, if we can get to basically a single-managed entity is where he calls it, so I can have the entire thing comes out, not just the infrastructure, but all the way through the stack. Not only does that really help your deployment, but the overall kind of time-to-value, customer experience is just tremendously improved, tell us how you're helping to kind of reach that vision. >> Yeah, well I think it's time-to-value, but it's also making VDI accessible to more customers right, and more segments of the market. The types of things that VDI solves, security, manageability, those aren't just enterprise problems right? Even midsize companies, they have security concerns, and for them it's actually probably even more dramatic, like they have a breach there, and it's catastrophic for the company, not just, you know we're delayed by a few hours. And so you know, having that simplicity, and then making that whole thing easier to deploy, and faster, it's not just easier to deploy, but on day two, it's easier to manage ongoing. Those things are getting into tension again. >> So for years I remember in the Citrix, Synergy, a bunch of VMware, VM world's, talked to customers, and it was always a two-horse race between those two companies, and Citrix was like Secretariat, and VMware was like Devil His Due. You've probably never heard of Devil His Due. Pretty good horse but not Secretariat, and you guys, Citrix was the dominant player in that marketplace. What's the competitive situation today? It seems like VMware has made some acquisitions, has maybe caught up, maybe has some advantages, what, how do you see them as a competitor? >> I, so I think where Citrix is, I think that what really happens in the competitors space now is that it becomes less about VDI, versus VDI, and like what features are in each one. Although I could talk for hours, I think there's still a bunch of differentiation in there. You know earlier talking about user experience, I think the way we're looking at this market, and what's happening to it right now, is less about sort of user experience in the sense of a classic protocol versus protocol sense, in a technical sense, and more about, and I'll use the term more and more often about employee experience, alright, so it's not just what is the performance of my virtual desktop when I'm on x-y-z device, over a certain network. It is what happens that first time I give an employee a resource, or a virtual desktop, or a mobile application, or access to a SAS application, or an internally-hosted Web application through a virtual browser, and they go in and they, they want to get work done right? So the experience of that employee is now, not just one of these technologies, it is what we refer to as workspace technology. It's everything I need from the applications, to the files that I want to use, to the workflows that I want to kick off, and I think that will be their new area of differentiation, and again, that's where we want to move very far for. >> Calvin, what should we be expecting to see from Citrix and Nutanix going for a long partnership, and how does it improve even more for customers? >> I think you know, the stuff that Nutanix has announced here, with the whole Hybrid Cloud strategy, I think that very much is in alignment with our philosophy on Hybrid Cloud approaches for customers. So I would expect to see a lot more in that collaboration area. There's lots more that we can do on the NetScaler side of the business for networking, and enabling the reliability of a lot of these network connections as people become, you know I love that concept of the core, the distributing the Edge Cloud right, and all of that's going to need interconnectivity, and security and reliability. And you know, more of the same on making VDI simpler for, for all customers of all sizes. I think we're just at the cusp of you know we've got this automation plan going in, we're creating the workspace appliance in its simplicity there. I think there's a lot more we can do, again, from day two perspective operationally, as I keep going and I'm growing this thing, and I'm managing my images, and I'm managing applications, and growing the infrastructure, increasing performance, taking on different types of workloads, there's lots more we can do in that area. >> What is the all Citrix Stack Workplace Appliance? >> Right, so that is really the Nutanix has announced support for XenServer, and for us, you know XenServer, we've really done a transformation of that technology over the last couple years, where we've taken what was a general platform virtualization solution, and we've really specifically targeted at our workloads. At XenApp, XenDesktop, NetScaler, and making it the best virtualization platform for our, for our solutions. Why do we do that? We do that because there's going to be certain things that we need out of that layer from an innovation standpoint whether it's supporting graphics, which we were the first to do, across all the major ship vendors, virtual GPUs, coming up with new security paradigms like being able to do deep Hypervisor Introspection, and identify day one malware attacks before they, even infect any of the machines. You know, those sorts of innovations become really important that we can drive, and having control over XenServer we're able to do that. So through the partnership with Nutanix, and getting their support on that as well, then all the joint Nutanix and Citrix customers could take advantage of that innovation. So now they also have the obviously at their disposal, everything that Nutanix is putting into HV, everything we're putting into XenServer, and being able to manage it that way. So, in the workspace appliance, sort of reference guide for building this, one of the things we focus on is the XenServer component of it, and being able to have that innovation coming from Citrix as part of that solution. >> Great. Calvin, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE, appreciate your time, and your insights. >> Thank you, yeah it's good to be here. >> Good to see you. Alright, keep it right there buddy, Stu and I will be back with our next guest. We're live from DotNext, #NEXTConf, this is theCUBE. (techno music)