>>Yeah. Hello. Welcome to the Cubes International Women's Showcase, featuring International Women's Day. I'm John for your host of the queue here in Palo Alto, California. And we have three great guests videoing in from Kuala Lumpur as well as Bangkok. Johann Kwa, group CEO of K s K Group. It's just a Christina Equal, co founder and head of K s, K C Labs and Cindy, co founder of Sunday Insurance in Bangkok. Ladies. Thanks for coming on the cue. Appreciate you coming on. Thanks for Thanks for joining me on this special day. >>Thank you. Thank you so much. You >>guys are three sisters, trailblazing and the insurance and real estate through digital transformation in the cloud taking a three decade old family business to the next level raising the bar, as they say in the cloud business. Congratulations. Tell us how it all started. What's going on now? What does it look like? Where did it come from? Tell the Storey. >>Okay, so maybe I'll start, Uh, you know, since I'm at the group CEO level. So, um, as a quick introduction, you know? Okay. SK group, uh, were about 30 years old now, as a group three decades. Um, we started off as an insurance, uh, nonlife insurance company. Um, and then over the years, um, you know, we we operate in in South East Asia, So we are based in the US and markets. That message is also sitting in, um, and very quickly over the years, you know, we decided to actually venture into property development as well. Um, and really across the journey. Um, you know, we we've always been very, um, obsessed over the customers. You know, uh, and, you know, during this time and age, you know, all the customers are really digital natives now, and and, you know, the tech is very, very interesting. And so So starting in the year of 2017, we decided, um, to actually venture. Cindy and I at least we decided to start up our own, uh, tech, uh, called Sunday. Uh, Cindy is now the full time CEO and co founders. Um, and, you know, uh, it's an exciting journey from then on, uh, where now The first full stack ensure attack in in the whole of of the Asian market, uh, starting off in Thailand. Um, And then when Christine came back, to join the business. You know, since we were already in real estate, we decided, taking on from the inspiration of what we did with Sunday, how about we do the same in in in property? Because we obviously saw, you know, there was super loads of opportunities that we could we could we could do. And and a year ago, we gave birth to cast a city lapse. Um, now a prop tech company based in Malaysia. >>Christine and Cindy tell the storey here because this is actually fascinating. Storey, your sisters, your entrepreneurial. So you know each other? You're related and you've got ups and downs with the startups and growing companies changing landscape. A lot of challenges. You all gotta get along all the time. How's it going? What's it like? Mm. >>Maybe I'll start. I think I think for me I'm probably the newest addition to the trio in the, you know, working together kind of space. So for me, I think it's all about really learning how to, you know, separate your professional and personal life. And like you mentioned, you know, we live together. But we also work together. So for me, I think I took a >>lot of advice >>and direction. Um, both from Johann and, >>uh, help >>me a lot. Um, so So I think that's been my experience. Been great So far, Um, they've been really, really supportive. And I think going through this journey of, you know, like, founding a company together, it's obviously very challenging. And so I feel very fortunate to have two sisters who have already gone through it once, you know? >>So for the other guests is trying to get on the cube here. Over there. Um, sounds like fun. Uh, Christine. So on the city labs, you gotta cheque side of it there in the in the property tech. That's exciting. How's it going over there? >>Uh, super, Super cool. Super fun. Uh, has been one heck of a journey building a company from scratch, let alone in tech. I think you know, we created K s K C d lives because we really wanted to modernise the real estate industry, uh, and create, like, super transformative solutions, uh, many for two reasons. You know, one is to improve the quality of life, um, of the community around us. Uh, and secondly, really to harness all the technology and this unused data right in the real estate industry. And try and say, how can we use that to make more intelligent business decisions? Yeah, so So really, Um, I guess for us, it's been really exciting because we've launched two products. Uh, you know, one of which is Ai driven, dynamic pricing engine. And we realised that actually, the way that homes are priced today, uh, in real estate is super RK right? You only use a few basic variables. Like, how big is your house? What views do you have? But then we realised that, actually hey, with a I where you suddenly can use, like, hundreds of variables, um, and even, you know, consisting of wellness variables, for example. Um, and you can really customise pricing all the way down to a single unit level. Uh, and we realise that by doing this, we could actually unlock, um, ferret prices for our customers while also constantly kind of tracking the financial health of the company. >>Awesome. Cindy, I wanna get you in here. A co founder, Sunday Insurance. That was the origination. But a lot of change data drives everything machine learning. You gotta have the state of the art. What's going on with you? >>Yeah, I think for us, essentially, uh, we're operating in a very old industry. Um, it's one of the oldest industries globally. And if you look at the entire insurance value chain, um, every part of the process can actually, it's all about data. You can. It can be disrupted. Um, but yet every inch of the value chain is also regulated. So I think essentially what we're trying to do is, um, we're trying to really innovate the customer journey. So imagine if, um, even in the States now and even coming back to Asia, a lot of how people buy insurance is still very face to face agency. But I think in the future is going to be remote online on your app, through any partners as well. So I think, uh, we're trying to adopt any machine learning to really scale and automate, uh, the journey of anyone who's trying to buy insurance. But at the same time for insurance companies were also trying to help them automate that function itself. So imagine if banks are trying to dish out loans and you're trying to predict. What's the credit risk of every, um, single customer? That's exactly what insurance company needs to do as well. Um, And I guess insurance is all about buying a service as well. >>It's unlike you >>know, I'm gonna buy an apple. It comes to the hardware, >>right? So we're >>selling a service. So essentially you're service has to also dramatically changed. And I think these days, especially when we're operating in, uh, Thailand, Indonesia is one of the highest adoption rates for mobile these days. Everyone does. Everything lives on on the apps. So, um, insurance companies also needs to really on board their journey on that as well as increased engagement. So I don't just want to be an insurance company where, um, I speak to you and I have an issue with my claim. I want to really build a relationship with you and engage you differently. So I think it's actually that's the mission for a Sunday. So I think Imagine if imagine an insurance company 50 years in the future. How would it be? Uh, that's our mission. >>This is a great example. You guys, First of all, you're very dynamic. Thanks for sharing your storey. But when you get into the tech here, if industries that are transforming because of the digital transformation, the consumers expect the apps. You guys, as co founders and entrepreneurs now running this big business have to meet the demands and leverage the technology. How have you done that? How are you guys manage that? What kinds of decisions have you made? And you share some either experiences or observations of how to navigate and how you're riding that wave. >>Yeah. So I think if you hear from what Cindy and Christine has just mentioned, I mean, uh, we were playing in, you know, two of the oldest and largest industries in the world. Real estate and insurance. And, uh, you know, in both industries, as I said earlier, you know, it's really all about the customers, right? Um you know, in in the past, we used to think of of businesses as you know, what's your vertical and the horizontal today? Um, at least four k s k and and and all the all these, um, you know, tech ventures that we are now venture building. We're really thinking about it from the customer land. So really thinking about it from a customer ecosystem perspective. So instead of, you know, creating products and and having that push out to the customers, you know, we use tech and data and and especially data today and the right amount of data and what type of data that we want understanding that and really, um, building that product and really the services, uh, for the customers. So once you know the customer enters our ecosystem, whether you know, in your real estate, um, ecosystem or whether it's in your insurance ecosystem, we want you to to continue to stay with us, um, and to trust us. Um, and so it's not just about selling you a product, but really, you know, like, what Cindy says building a relationship with you because we think that, you know, obviously you know when insurance is something you really need when when when things go wrong in your life, we don't only want to be there. When things go wrong in your life and for real estate, you know everybody needs a shelter. So so so that's why we think that building relationships are very important and from really true, that lands is when you really think about the ecosystem and you think about data. I think Cindy Increasing gave some examples of how we're approaching it. Um, a lot of people start from from from a, you know, from a traditional business and from within. But for us, um, we decided to actually take it outside. Um, and, you know, take the approach of venture building from a startup, um, but really have, on the back end, really have that Connexion to the core businesses. Because what the core businesses understand is, you know, lifetime and experience of how customers feel and and, you know, um, in insurance, it's really about how to run a financial institution in real estate is really how to build buildings, and that is something that we can't take away. But, you know, you use technology to enable and to power. But what venture and start ups do extremely well is really the way we are extremely nimble and the way you use tech and data to navigate the quick changes of customer demands. And and you know, one thing an app and it's all about quick iterations. Right? When you build a super app, how do you incorporate all the features that are coming in, you have to keep on, you know, iterating changing, innovating, um, and innovating small with quick wins and then taking on a larger scale. And so the way we position ourselves is when you have to start up and you combine that with the core. Um, and putting the two together is how, how, how we look at things and that four minutes, the whole ecosystem >>that's awesome and being agile as fast and speed is key if you want to be there. Startup. But at the core business, that's going kind of slow. You got to kind of make everything go faster. That's a great, great insight. Let's talk about the disruption of the property industry again. That's real estate now with the Internet of things, technologies and also people expect technology. They wanna have access. I don't wanna have all these passwords and, you know they want to have easy in and out. They want good efficiency, save money. What's the disruption angle on? Um, the property neck. Christine, what's your How do you see that? The big disruption going? >>Yeah. So I think as Johann already mentioned before, you know um I think our customers we know are becoming, um, digital natives. Right? And they expect very convenient lifestyles. And we're all about our customers. So, actually, that's why we launched also another product, right where we're taking all of these things that you just mentioned, you know, about Iot into account. So what we found is, um, that actually, today, um, you know, the village about real estate is that we all live through that life as well, so we can experience that. Uh, we found that residents today, um, they find it quite challenging to request, you know, basic services like housekeeping managing, um, their defects, their tenants. Um, you know, even the financial planning and even getting into the building, right, they want more convenience. Um, but we realised that actually, all these services in the real estate industry right now and even in the prop tech space, they are very, very segmented. They're all discussed across multiple different apps. So what we really try to do is hey, let's try and consolidate all of this into one single app, which we have done, which is really cool, And it helps our residents really stay engaged and connected with our property. Um, what we did also was on the Iot front. We we were actually the first developer in Malaysia to also integrate, You know, future proof solutions like remote lift calling as well, um, into the mobile app. And that's to really go like, push on the Iot front. For us as well. >>Must be great for retention. It's all the gadgets are built into the of course. You have good WiFi fibre in their everyone's got good band with >>for sure >>It's like water and plumbing. Uh, I'd like to get everyone everyone loves that. I gotta ask Now, on the on the on the on The disruption is great. Now you've got the clouds, the clouds here for actually Amazon. You guys are big customer because you guys can move fast and they do all the heavy lifting. How are you guys seeing that helped modernise in the industry of insurance? Because that's a big vertical for a W s and you guys are doing is Cindy. What is the What is the modernisation? Um, half that you guys have taken with a W s. >>Yeah, sure. So I think essentially, for insurance, it's a product development. And when we talk about product development means, um how do you price, um, every certain individual or company very differently, right, Because everyone has very different risks surrounding them. Uh, currently, what we face is that it's a flat pricing fixed pricing. Um, and it's not really personalised to you. If you are a very good behaviour and safe kind of customer, it doesn't translate to any premium savings for you. Um, so I think, uh, part of insurance is to give, for example, affordable access to health care. But if your premiums isn't sustainable for health insurance, then it doesn't really need the point. So, uh, for Sunday, like, how we're trying to trying to do it differently is, for example, we use some AWS cloud solutions and AWS Lambda too, really power our machine learning Savalas and Cloud infrastructure. So, for example, uh, Sunday we are a serious bee companies sober and the growth stage. So at any point in time, we need to ensure that our infrastructure is able to support a huge spike in transaction volume, and we're working with large scale partners like telcos, e commerce companies, or even within our organic channels. So our AI machine learning risk prediction model, which is basically, um, powering our premium pricing engines whenever there's any requests coming in front of the Web for foreign quotation. For example, if someone wants to buy health insurance, um, it can go up and spike. But also, the data model is actually pricing, uh, processing billions of calculations, ingesting a lot of data points. Uh, it needs to do that within seconds, so yeah, I think a w s. We've been using it from day one since we launched. It's been, uh, helping us on >>that and make it go faster. That's the big thing. I gotta ask you when you guys have this family business now, three decades, you got a lot going on extending that legacy and sustaining the family legacy. I love the Storey. So who decides whether to do the startup and you guys draw straws? Is that you guys flip a coin? You gotta who runs the big business? How do you guys decide that? Mm. >>Um, maybe I'll >>I >>would say maybe it came very naturally to us. Really? I guess Here we don't have to disclose. Our age is a little bit, so I mean, I mean, we all actually the background and really all three of us. Before we came into the family business, we were all working professionals in very different fields. I was a I was in banking. Cindy was a lawyer, and Christine was a a doctor, actually, Um um, but, you know, I came back first. I'm the eldest, so after, you know, walking outside and looking into the family business. So I came back first, and and And from there, I took over the insurance business and looking at it, it was a very lonely place to be. So, um, you know, after a couple of years of Cindy being a professional life, you know, we said, Hey, would you like to come back? And let's, uh, take a different journey with insurance and see how we can build something different? Uh, since we know a lot about insurance, but let's make make make a difference and and and, you know, be sustainable, but also evolve over time and show the world that insurance is actually pretty sexy, actually. Um, and then, you know, Christine saw the fund that the two of us were having, uh, already started building a real estate on on my end. Uh, and then, uh, she came back. And, you know, we have a conversation, and we said, Look, looking at you know what we're doing in Sunday? You know, building pricing engines and being able to price to a single customer level. Um, we saw that opportunity in real estate, and, uh so I asked her. I said, Look, would you like to do this? You know, because I think there is something cool. Um, the three of us can band together and still inspire each other share ideas across each other. That's an opportunity that a lot of people don't get right. I mean, to all these industries in the world being able to cross share ideas. Uh, and sometimes inspirations and ideas don't come from the same industry. Uh, and so I think. And that's how we started. Really, John, it's not. Maybe we're lucky, and we should be grateful for >>that. You're all power women. I love the storey, and it is good that you come together, and I think the entrepreneurial kind of twist makes it more fun. But not everyone is cut out with the entrepreneurship, but it also gives you more risk management. You can. You can go after opportunities I love. I love the strategy there. You guys are great leaders. Any advice for other aspiring women leaders and entrepreneurs out there who want to make a difference? Make an impact? The world is. Change is getting better for everyone. And and again, entrepreneurial could be in big companies and also big companies doing startups. There's a whole new world. What advice would you guys give other aspiring women leaders? Okay, >>I'll keep it short from my end. I think for me it's about really following your passion following your ambition. And lastly, I think not to try and not feel like you need to conform to any gender stereotypes because I think in male dominated industries such as real estate, our are attack. I think people might have some ideas about you know what a what a tech leader or what a real estate leader might have to look like. But you don't have to conform to that. So that's probably my advice. Uh, >>yeah, I I fully agree with Chris right there. I think, um, gender isn't an issue here. If you have a passion and you identify, there is a market opportunity that you can, you know, you can really do something about it. Just just pursue it. I think most importantly, if you ever want to be an entrepreneur and start your own business or your own, start up. Uh, so long as you have the confidence, I think you're you're good to go. Um, there's a lot of talk out that that or, you know, um, women led start ups are not >>attracting >>funds, but we haven't faced that anyway. In this part of Asia, I think there's a lot of, um, I think it attracts even more attention. If you're a woman in a male dominated that industry like, hey, then you know it's it's quite unique. So I think you have a strength there, and I think there's a lot of diverse talent out there. Um, post pandemic. A lot of people are looking for changes as well, so I think it is a lot of a lot of opportunity out there. >>Yeah, Joanne, you know, you know, the thing is with cloud computing, it's a level centre. It really because if you can come together, whether it's sisters like you guys, powerful sisters and professional experience coming together leverage technology to re factor old industries. It's all about the numbers and the performance. At the end of the day, you know, you move faster and you take territory and beat the competition. >>Ultimate >>the ultimate uh, leveller. Well, congratulations. You guys are great. Thanks for coming on The Cube Sisters. You guys are amazing. Great Storey Love it. Thanks for coming out and celebrating International Women's Day feature today as part of our international women's showcase here in the Cube. Thank you so much. >>Thank you. Thank you for having us. >>Okay. The Cubes International Women's showcase Going on all year, this time featuring International Women's Day The big celebration. I'm John Ferrier, host of the Cube here in Palo Alto, California. Thanks for watching. Mm mm

>>mhm Yes, everyone, welcome back to the cubes coverage of dr khan 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube. Got a great segment here. One of the big supporters and open source amazon web services returning back second year. Dr khan virtual Deepak Singh, vice president of the compute services at AWS Deepak, Great to see you. Thanks for coming back on remotely again soon. We'll be in real life. Reinvent is going to be in person, we'll be there. Good to see you. >>Good to see you too, john it's always good to do these. I don't know how how often I've been at the cube now, but it's great every single time your >>legend and getting on there, a lot of important things to discuss your in one of the most important areas in the technology industry right now and that is at the confluence of cloud scale and modern development applications as they shift towards as Andy Jassy says, the new guard, right. It's been happening. You guys have been a big proponent of open source and enabling open source is a service creating business models for companies. But more importantly, you guys are powering, making it easier for folks to use software. And doctor has been a big relationship for you. Could you take a minute to first talk about the doctor, a W S relationship and your involvement and what you're doing? >>Yeah, actually it goes back a long way. Uh you know, Justin, we announced PCS had reinvented 2014 and PCS at that time was very much managed orchestration service on top of DACA at that time. I think it was the first really big one out there from a cloud provider. And since then, of course, the world has evolved quite a bit and relationship with DR has evolved a lot. The thing I'd like to talk to is something that we announced that Dr last year, I don't remember if I talked about it on the cube at that time. But last year we started working with DR on how can we go from doctor Run, which customers love or DR desktop, which customers love and make it easy for people to run containers on pcs and Fergie. Uh so most new customers running containers and AWS today start with this Yes and party or half of them and we wanted to make it very easy for them to start with where they are on the laptop which is often bucket to stop and have running services the native US. So we started working with DR and that that collaboration has been very successful. We want to keep you look forward to continuing to work on evolving that where you can use Docker compose doctor, desktop, doctor run the fuel that darker customers used and the labour grand production services on the end of your side, which is the part that we've got that on. So I think that's one area where we work really well together. Uh, the other area where I think the two companies continue to work well together. It's open source in general as some of, you know, AWS has a very strong commitment to contain a. D uh, EKS our community service is moving towards community. Forget it actually runs all on community today and uh, we collaborate dr Rhonda on the Ocr specification because, you know, the Oc I am expect is becoming the de facto packaging format idea. W S. This morning we launched yesterday, we launched a service called Opera. And the main expected input for opera is an Ocr image are being in this Atlanta as well, where those ci images now a way of packaging for lambda. And I think the last one I like to call out and it has been an amazing partnership and it's an area where most people don't pay attention is amid signing. Uh, there's a project called Notary. We do the second version of the Notary Spec for remit signing and AWS Docker and a couple of other companies have been working very closely together on bringing that uh, you know, finalizing no tv too, so that at least in our case we can start building services for our customers on top of that. You know, it's it's a great relationship and I expect to see it continue. >>Well, I think one of the themes this year is developer experience. So good. Good call out there in the new announcements on the tools you have and software because that seems to be a great developer integration with Docker question I have for you is how should the customers think about things like E C. S and versus E K. S. App, Runner lambda uh for kind of running their containers. How do they understand the difference is, what's there? What's the, what's the thought process there? What's >>that? It's a good question actually been announced after. And I think there was one of the questions I started getting on twitter. You know, let's start at the very beginning. Anyone can pick up a Docker container and run it on easy to today. You can run it on easy to, we can run a light sail, but doc around works just fine. It's the limits machine. Then people want to do more complex things. They want to run large scale orchestrated services. They won't run their entire business and containers. We have customers will do that today. Uh, you know, you have people like Vanguard who runs a significant portion of the infrastructure on pcs frg or you have to elope with the heavy user of chaos, our community service. So in general, if you're running large scale systems, you're building your platforms, you're most likely to use the csny Chaos. Um, if you come from a community's background, you're, you're running communities on prem or you want the flexibility and control the communities gives you, you're gonna end up with the chaos. That's what we see our customers doing. If you just want to run containers, you want to use AWS to its fullest extent where you want the continue a P I to be part of the W A S A P. I said then you pick is yes. And I think one of the reasons you see so many customers start with the CSN, Forget is with forget to get the significant ease of use from an operational standpoint. And we see many start ups and you know, enterprises, especially security focus enterprises leaning towards farming. But there's a class of customers that doesn't want to think about orchestration that just wants. Here's my code, here's my container image just run my service for me and that's when things like happen, I can come and that's one of the reasons we launched it. Land is a little bit different. Lambda is a unique service. You buy into an event driven architecture. If you do that, then you can figure our application into this. That's they should start its magic. Uh, the container part, there is what land announced agreement where they now support containers, packaging. So instead of zip files, you can package up your functions as containers. Then lambda will run them for you. The advantage it gives you with all the tooling that you built, that you have to build your containers now works the land as well. So I won't call and a container orchestration service in the same sense of the CSC cso Afrin are but it definitely allows the container image format as a standard packaging format. I think that's the sort of universal common theme that you find across AWS at this point of time. >>You know, one of the things that we're observing at this at this event here is a lot of developers Coop con and Lennox foundations. A lot of operators to kubernetes hits that. But here's developers. And the thing is I want to ease of use, simplicity experience, but also I want the innovation. Yeah, I want all of it. When I ask you what is amazon bring to the table for the new equation, what would you say? >>Yeah, I mean for me it's always you've probably heard me say this 100 times. Many 1000 times. It's foggy fog. It's unique to us. It takes a lot of what we have learned about operating infrastructure scale. The question we asked ourselves, you know, in many ways we talk about forget even before belong pcs but we have to learn on what it meant and what customers really wanted. But the idea was when you are running clusters of instances of machines to run containers on, you have to start thinking about a lot of things that in some ways VMS but BMS in the car were taken away capacity. What kind of infrastructure to run it on? Should have been touched. Should have not been back. You know, where is my container running? Those are things. They suddenly started having to think about those kind of backwards almost. So the idea was how can we make your containerized bundles? So TCS task or community is part of the thing that you talk to and that is the main unit that you operate on. That is the unit that you get built on and meet it on. That's where Forget comes in and it allows us to do many interesting things. We've effectively changed the engine of forget since we've launched it. Uh, we run it on ec two instances and we run it on fire cracker. Uh, we have changed the forget agent architecture. We've made a lot of underneath the hood, uh, changes that even take the take advantage of the broader innovation, the rate of us, We did a whole bunch more to launch acronym trans on top of family customers don't have to think about it. They don't have to worry about it. It happens underneath the hood. It's always your engine as as you go along and it takes away all the operational pain of managing clusters of running into picking which instances to use to getting out, trying to figure out how to bend back and get efficiency. That becomes our problem. So, you know, that is an area where you should expect to see a Stuart done more. It's becoming the fabric of so many things that eight of us now. Uh, it's, you know, in some ways we're just talking a lot more to do. >>Yeah. And it's a really good time. A lot more wave of developers coming in. One of the things that we've been reporting on on Silicon England cube with our cute videos is more developers keep on coming on, more people coming in and contributing to the open source community. Even end users, not just the normal awesome hyper scholars you're talking about like classic, I call main street enterprises. So two things I want to ask you on the customer side because you have kind of to customers, you have the community that open source community and you have enterprise customers that want to make it easier. What are you seeing and hearing from customers? I know you guys work backwards from the customer. So I got to ask you work backwards from the community and work backwards from the enterprise customer. What's going on in their environment? What's the key trends that they're riding? What's the big challenges? What's the big opportunities that they're facing and saying for the community? >>Yeah, I start with the enterprise. That's almost an easier answer. Which is, you know, we're seeing increasingly enterprises moving into the cloud wholesale. Like in some ways you could argue that the pandemic has just accelerated it, but we have started seeing that before. Uh they want to move to the cloud and adult modern best practices. Uh If you see my talk agreement last few years, I've talked about modernization and all the aspects of modernization, and that's 90% of our conversation with enterprises, I've walked into a meeting supposedly to talk about containers, whatever half a conversation is spent on. How does an organization modernize? What does an organization need to do to modernize and containers and serverless play a pretty important part in it, because it gives them an opportunity to step away from the shackles of sort of fixed infrastructure and the methods and approaches that built in. But equally, we are talking about C I C. D, you know, fully automated deployments. What does it mean for developers to run their own services? What are the child, how do you monitor and uh, instrument uh, your services? How do you do observe ability in the modern world? So those are the challenges that enterprises are going towards, and you're spending a ton of time helping them there. But many of them are still running infrastructure on premises. So, you know, we have outpost for them. Uh, you know, just last week, you're talking to a bunch of our customers and they have lots of interesting ideas and things that they want to do without both, but many of them also have their own infrastructure and that's where something like UCS anywhere came from, which is hey, you like using Pcs in the cloud, You like having the safety i that just orchestrates containers for you. It does it on on his in an AWS region. It will do it in an outpost. It'll do it on wavelength, it'll do it on local zone. How about we allow you to do it on whatever infrastructure you bring to us. Uh you want to bring a raspberry pi, you can do that. You want to bring your on premises data center infrastructure, we can do that or a point of sale device, as long as you can get the agent running and you can connect to an AWS region, even though it's okay to lose connectivity every now and then. We can orchestrate a container for you over there and, you know, the same customer that likes the ease of use of Vcs. And the simplicity really resonated with that message really resonates with them. So I think where we are today with the enterprise is we've got some really good solutions for you in eight of us and we are now allowing you to take those a. P. I. S and then launch containers wherever you want to run them, whether it's the edge or whether it's your own data center. I think that's a big part of where the enterprise is going. But by and large, I think yes, a lot of them are still making that change from running infrastructure and applications the way they used to do a modern sort of, if you want to use the word cloud native way and we're helping them a lot. We've done, the community is interesting. They want to be more participatory. Uh that's where things like co pilot comes from. God, honestly, the best thing we've ever done in my order is probably are open road maps where the community can go into the road map and engage with us over there, whether it's an open source project or just trying to tell us what the feature is and how they would like to see it. It's a great engagement and you know, it's not us a lot. It's helped us prioritize correctly and think about what we want to do next. So yeah, I think that's, that >>must be very hard to do for opening up the kimono on the road map because normally that's the crown jewels and its secretive and you know, and um, now it's all out in the open. I think that is a really interesting, um, experiment and what's your reaction to that? What's been the feedback on the road map peace? Because I mean, I definitely want to see, uh, >>we do it pretty much for every service in my organization and we've been doing it now for three years. So years forget, I think about three years and it's been great. Now we are very we are very upfront, which is security and availability. Our job 000 and you know, 100 times out of 100 at altitudes between a new feature and helping our customers be available and safe. We'll do that. And this is why we don't put dates in that we just tell you directionally where we are and what we are prioritizing Uh, there every now and then we'll put something in there that, you know, well not choose not to put a feature in there because we want to keep it secret until it launches. But for the most part, 99% of our own myself there and people engaged with it. And it's not proven to be a problem because you've also been very responsible with how we manage and be very transparent on whether we can commit to something or not. And I think that's not. >>I gotta ask you on as a leader uh threaded leader on this group. Open source is super important, as you know, and you continue to do it from under years. How are you investing in the future? What's your plan? Uh plans for your team, the industry actually very inclusive, Which is very cool. It's gonna resonate well, what's the plans? Give us some details on what you're investing in, what your priorities? What's your first principles? >>Yeah, So it goes in many ways, one when I I also have the luxury also on the amazon open source program office. So, you know, I get the chance to my team, rather not me help amazon engineers participate in open source. That that's the team that helps create the tools for them, makes it easy for them to contribute, creates, you know, manages all the licenses, etcetera. I'll give you a simple example, you know, in there, just think of the cr credential helper that was written by one of our engineers and he kind of distorted because he felt it was something that we needed to do. And we made it open source in general, in in many of our teams. The first question we asked is should something the open why is this thing not open source, especially if it's a utility or some piece of software that runs along with services. So they'll step one. But we've done some big things also, I, you know, a couple of years ago we launched Lennox operating system called bottle Rocket. And right from the beginning it was very clear to us that bottle Rocket was two things. It was both in AWS product. But first it was an open source project. We've already learned a little bit from what we've done at Firecracker. But making bottle rocket and open source operating system is very important. Anyone can take part of Rocket the open source to build tooling. You can run it whatever you want. If you want to take part of Rocket and build a version and manage it for another provider. For another provider wants to do it, go for it. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. So you'll see us do a lot there. Obviously there's multiple areas. You've seen WS investing on the open source side. But to me, the winds come from when engineers can participate in small things, released little helpers or get contributions from outside. I think that's where we're still, we can always have that. We're going to continue to strive to make it better and easier. And uh, you know, I said, I have, you know, me and my team, we have an opportunity to help their inside the company and we continue to do so. But that's what gets me excited. >>Yeah, that's great stuff. And congratulations on investing in the community, really enjoys it and I know it moves the needle for the industry. Deepak, I gotta ask you why I got you here. Dr khan obviously, developers, what's the most important story that they should be paying attention to as a developer because of what's going on shift left for security day two operations also known as a I ops getups, whatever you wanna call it, you know, ongoing, you get server lists, you got land. I mean, all kinds of great things are going on. You mentioned Fargate, >>um >>what should they be paying attention to that's going to really help their life, both innovation wise and just the quality of life. >>Yeah, I would say look at, you know, in the end it is very easy developers in particular, I want to build the buildings and it's very easy to get tempted to try and get learn everything about something. You have access to all the bells and whistles and knobs, but in reality, if you want to run things you want to, you want to focus on what's important, the business application, that and you the application. And I think a lot of what I'll tell developers and I think it's a lot of where the industry is going is we have built a really solid foundation, whether it's humanity, so you CSN forget or you know, continue industries out there. We have very solid foundation that, you know, our customers and develop a goal of the world can use to build upon. But increasingly, and you know, they are going to provide tools that sort of take that wrap them up and providing a nice package solution After another great example, our collaboration, the doctor around Dr desktop are a great example where we get all the mark focus on the application and build on top of that and you can get so much done. I think that's one trend. You'll see more and more. Those things are no longer toys, their production grade systems that you can build real world applications on, even though they're so easy to use. The second thing I would add to that is uh, get uh, it is, you know, you can give it whatever name you want. There's uh, there's nuances there, but I actually think get up is the way people should be running the infrastructure, my virus in my personal, you know, it's something that we believe a lot in homicide as hard as you go towards immutable infrastructure, infrastructure, automation, we can get off plays a significant role. I think developers naturally gravitate towards it. And if you want to live in a world where development and operations are tightly linked, I think it after the huge role to play in that it's actually a big part of how we're planning to do things like yes, anywhere, for example, a significant player and that it would be a proton. I think get up will be a significant in the future of proton as well. So I think that's the other trend. If you wanted to pick a trend that people should pay attention. That's what I believe in a lot. >>Well you're an expert. So I want to get you a quick definition. What is get Ops, how would you define it? Because that's a big trend. What does it, what does that mean? >>Electricity will probably shoot me for getting this wrong. I tell you how I think about it. Which is, you know, in many cases, um, you when you're doing deployments are pushing a deployment getups is more of a full deployment. When you are pushing code to get depository, you have a system that knows that the event has happened and then pulls from there and triggers the thing as opposed to you telling it take I have this new piece of code now go deployed everywhere. So to me, the biggest changes that Two parts one is it's more for full mechanism where you're pulling because something has changed. So it needs systems like container orchestrators to keep them, you know, to keep them in sync. And the second part of the natural natural evolution of infrastructure score, which is basically everything is called the figures code. Infrastructure as code, code is code and everything is getting stored in that software repo and the software repo becomes your store of record and drives everything. Uh So for a glass of customers, that's going to be a pretty big deal. >>Yeah, when you're checking in code, that's again, it's like a compiler for the compiler, a container for the container, you've got things for each other. Automation is ultimately what we're talking about here. And that's to me where machine learning kicks in. So again, having this open source foundational fabric, as you said, forget out the muck or the undifferentiated heavy lifting. This is what we're talking about automation, isn't it? Deepak? >>Yes. I mean I said uh one thing where we hang our hat on is there's such good stuff out there in the world which we like to contribute to, but the thing we like to hang our hat on is how do you run this? How do you do it this in ways that you can uniquely bring capabilities to customers where there's things like nitro or things are nitro open stuff. Well, the fact that we have built up this operational infrastructure over the last in a decade plus or in the container space over the last seven years where we really really know how to run these things at scale and have made all the investments to make it easy to do. So that's that's where we have hanger hard keeping people safe, helping them only available applications, their new startup, that just completely takes off in over the weekend. For whatever reason, because, you know, you're the next hot thing on twitter and our goal is to support you whether you are, you know, uh enterprise that's moving from the main train or you are the next hot startup, that's you know, growing virally and uh, you know, we've done a lot to build systems help both sides and yeah, it's >>interesting if you sing about open source where it's come from, I mean I remember that base wouldn't open source wasn't open, I would be peddling software, there's a free copy of Linux, UNIX um in college and now it's all free. But I mean just what's changed now. It used to be just free software, download software. You got it now, it's a service. Service now can be monetized quickly. And what you guys are offering with AWS and cloud scale is you've done all these things as I don't have to have a developer. I get the benefits of the scale, I can bring my open source code to the table, make it a service integrated in with other services and be the next snowflake, be the next, you know, a company that could scale. And that is that's the that's the innovation, right? That's the this is a new phenomenon. So it also changes the business model. >>Yeah, actually you're you're quite right. Actually, I I like one more thing to it. But you look at how a lot of enterprises use containers today. Most of them are using something like this year, Symphony or GS to build an internal developer platform and internal developer portal. And then the question then becomes this hard to scale this modern and development practices to an entire organization. What is your big bank that's been around as thousands and thousands of ID stuff That may not all be experts are running communities running container is when you scale it out different systems that proton come into play. That was actually the inspiration is how do you help an organization where they're building these developer Portholes and developer infrastructure, developer platforms, How do you make it easy for them to build it? Be almost use it as a way to get these modern practices into the hands of all the business units, where they may not have the time to become experts at the modern ways of running infrastructure because they're busy doing other things. And I think you'll see the a lot more happening that space that's not happening in the open source community. There's proton, there's a bunch of interesting things happening here and be interesting to see how that evolves. >>And also, you know, the communal, communal aspect of not just writing code together, but succeeding, right, building something. I mean, that's when you start to see the commercial meets open kind of ethos of communal activity of working together and sharing a big part of this year's. Dakar Con is sharing not just running and shipping code but sharing. >>Yeah, I mean if you think about it uh Dockers original value was you build run and shit right? You use the same code to build it, you use the same code to ship it, the same sort of infrastructure interface and then you run it and that, you know, the fact that the doctor images such a wonderfully shareable entity uh that can run every girl is such a powerful and it's called the Ci Image. Now I still call him Dr images because it's just easier. But that to me like that is a big deal and I think it's becoming and become an even bigger deal over the years. I came from something before, Amazon has to work in The sciences and bioinformatics and you know, the ability to share codeshare dependencies, package all of that up in a container image is a big deal. It's what got me one of the reasons I got fascinated with container 78 years ago. So it will be interesting to see where all of systems. >>It's great, great stuff. Great success. And congratulations. Deepak, Great to always talk to you got a great finger on the pulse. You lead a really important organizations at AWS and you know, doctor has such a huge success with developers, even though the company has gone through kind of a uh change over and a pivot to what they're doing now. They're back to their open source roots, but they have millions and millions of developers use Docker and new developers are coming in dot net developers are coming in. Windows developers are coming in and and so it's no longer about Lennox anymore. It's about just coding. >>Yeah. And it's it's part of this big trend towards infrastructure, automation and and you know development and deployment practices that I think everyone is going to adopt faster than we think they will. But you know, companies like Doctor and opens those projects that they involved are critical in making that a lot easier for them. And then you know, folks like us get to build on top of that orbit them and make it even easier. >>Well, great testimony the doctor that you guys based your E C. S on Docker Doctor has a critical role in developing community. I run composed in their hub with dr desktop and we'll be watching amazon and and the community activity and see what kind of experiences you guys can bring to the table and continue that momentum. Thank you Deepak for coming on the >>cube. Thank you, john. That's always a pleasure. >>Okay. Mr cubes. Dr khan 2021 virtual coverage. I'm john for your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>Hey, welcome to the Cubes coverage of Red Hat Summit 2021, the virtual experience, I'm lisa martin, I have two guests joining me. One is a cube alum kamal Shah is back, he's now the VP of cloud platforms at Brent had come on, it's great to have you back on the program. You're in a new role, we're going to talk about that. Thank you. And Kirsten newcomer is here as well. She's the Director of cloud and Death stickups strategy at Red Hat, Kirsten, Welcome and thank you for bringing the red hat vibe to the segment. >>Absolutely, very happy to be here. >>So looking forward to this conversation that we're going to be having in the next 20 minutes or so. We're gonna be talking about the last time come on, you were on, you were the ceo of stack rocks In January of 2021. The announcement that red hat plans to acquire stack rocks, it wouldn't be talking all about that. But I'd like to start with Kirsten, give us your perspective from red hats perspective, why is red hat a good fit for stack rocks? >>You know, there are so many reasons first of all as as you know, right? Red hat has been working with product Izing kubernetes since kubernetes one dato. Right, so so open shift three dato shipped with kubernetes one dot Oh, so we've been working with kubernetes for a long time, stack rocks embraces kind of is kubernetes native security embraces the declarative nature of kubernetes and brings that to security. Red hats, Custer's red hat enterprise customers, we have a great set across different verticals that are very security conscious and and during my five years at red hat, that's where I spend the majority of my time is talking with our customers about container and kubernetes security. And while there's a great deal of security built in to open shift as it goes to market out of the box, customers need the additional capabilities that stack rock springs. Historically, we've met those needs with our security partners. We have a great ecosystem of security partners. And with the stack rocks acquisition, we're now in a position to offer additional choice. Right. If a customer wants those capabilities from Red hat tightly integrated with open shift, we'll have those available and we continue to support and work with our broad ecosystem of security partners. >>Excellent customers always want choice. Come on. Give me your perspective. You were at the helm the ceo of stack rocks as you were last time you were on the cube. Talk to me about the redhead acquisition from your seat. >>Yeah. So as as Kirsten mentioned, we were partners of red hat. You're part of the red hat partner ecosystem. And uh, what we found is that was both a great strategic fit and a great cultural fit between our two companies. Right? And so the discussions that we had were how do we go and quickly enable our customers to accelerate their digital transformation initiatives to move workloads to the cloud, to containerized them, to manage them through kubernetes and make sure that we seamlessly addressed their security concerns. Right? Because it continues to be the number one concern for large enterprises and medium sized enterprises and frankly any enterprise that uh, you know, uh, working out today. So, so that was kind of the impetus behind it. And I must say that so far the the acquisition has been going on very smoothly. So we had two months in roughly and everybody and has been very welcoming, very collaborative, very supportive. And we are already working hand in hand to to integrate our companies and to make sure that we are working closely together to make our customers successful. >>Excellent. We're gonna talk about that integration in a second. But I can imagine challenging going through an acquisition during a global pandemic. Um but that is one of the things that I think lends itself to the cultural alignment. Kamal that you talked about, Kirsten. I want to get your perspective. We know we talk about corporate culture and corporate culture has changed a lot in the last year with everybody or so many of us being remote. Talk to me about kind of the core values that red hat and stack rocks share >>actually, you know, that's been one of the great joys doing during the acquisition process in particular, Kamal and and ali shared kind of their key values and how they um how they talked to talk with their team And some of the overlap was just so resonated so much for all of us. In particular the sense of transparency, uh, that the, that the team the stack rocks executive team brings and approaches. That's a that's a clear value for red hat um strongly maintained. Uh, that was one of the key things the interest in um uh, containers and kubernetes. Right. So the technology alignment was very clear. We probably wouldn't have proceeded without that. But again, um and I think the investment in people and the independence and the and the strong drive of the individuals and supporting the individuals as they contribute to the offering so that it really creates that sense of community um and collaboration that is key. Uh and and it's just really strong overlap in in cultural values and we so appreciated that >>community and collaboration couldn't be more important these days. And ultimately the winner is the customers. So let's dig in. Let's talk about what stack rocks brings to open shift Kirsten take it away >>man. So as I said earlier, um so I think we we really believe in continuous security at red hat and in defense and depth. And so when we look at an enterprise kubernetes distribution that involves security at the real core os layer security and kubernetes adding the things into the distribution, making sure they're there by default, that any distribution needs to be secured to be hardened, auditing, logging, identity, access management, just a wealth of things. And Red hat has historically focused on infrastructure and platform security, building those capabilities into what we bring to market stack rocks enhances what we already have and really adds workload protection, which is really when it comes down to it. Especially if you're looking at hybrid cloud, multi cloud, how you secure, not just the platform, but how you secure your workloads changes. And we're moving from a world where, you know, you're deploying anti virus or malware scanners on your VMS and your host operating system to a world where those work clothes may be very short lived. And if they aren't secured from the get go, you miss your opportunity to secure them right? You can't rely on, you know, you do need controls in the infrastructure but they need to be kubernetes native controls and you need to shift that security left. Right? You never patch a running container. You always have to rebuild and redeploy if you patch the running container the next time that container images deployed, you've missed, you've lost that patch. And so the whole ethos the whole shift left. The Deb sec ops capabilities that stack rock springs really adds such value. Right? You can't just do DEF SEc or set cops. You need to do a full infinity loop to really have def SEc ops and stack rocks. I'm gonna let Kamal tell you about it, but they have so many capabilities that that really drive that shift left and enable that closed loop. We're just so excited that they're part of our offerings. >>So can you take us through that? How does stack rocks facilitate the shift left? >>Yeah, absolutely. So stack rocks, which we we announced at summit is now being rebranded as red hat. Advanced cluster security was really purpose built to help our customers address the use cases across the entire application lifecycle. Right? So from bill to deploy to run time. So this is the infinite loop that Kirsten mentioned earlier and one of our foundations was to be kubernetes native to ensure that security is really built into the application is supposed to bolt it on. So specifically, we help our customers shift left by securing the supply chain and we're making sure that we identifying vulnerabilities early during the build process before they make it to a production environment. We helped them secure the infrastructure by preventing miS configurations again early in the process because as we all know, MIS configurations often lead to breaches at at runtime. Right? We help them address uh compliance requirements by ensuring that we can check for CS benchmarks are regulatory requirements around the C I P C I, hip hop and this and and that's uh you know, just focusing on shift left, doesn't really mean that you ignore the right side or ignore the controls you need uh when your applications are running in production. So we help them secure that at runtime by identifying preventing breaches the threat detection, prevention and incident response. >>That built in security is you both mentioned that built in versus bolt on Kirsten? Talk to me about that, that as really kind of a door opener. We talked a lot about security issues, especially in the last year. I don't know how many times we've talked about miS configurations leading to breaches that we've seen so many security challenges present in the last year. We talked to me a little bit Kirsten about >>what >>customers appetites are for going. All right now, I've got cloud native security, I'm going to be able to, I'm going to feel more comfortable with rolling out production deployments. >>It's, it's a great place to go. So there are a number of elements to think about. And if I could, I could, I could start with by building on the example that Kamal said, Right, So when we think about um I need to build security into my pipeline so that when I deliver my containerized workloads, they're secure. What if I miss a step or what if a new vulnerability is discovered after the fact? Right. So one of the things that stack rocks or redhead a CS offers is it has built in policy checks to see whether a container or running image has something like a package manager in it. Well, a package manager can be used to load software that is not delivered with the container. And so the idea of ensuring that you are including workload, built in workload, protect locks with policies that are written for you. So you can focus on building your applications. You don't necessarily have to learn everything there is to know about the new attack vectors that are really just it it's new packaging, it's new technology. It's not so much there are some new attack vectors, but mostly it's a new way of delivering and running your applications. That requires some changes to how you implement your security policies. And so ensuring that you have the tools and the technology that you're running on have those capabilities built in. So that when we have conversations with our security conscious customers, we can talk with them about the attack vectors they care about. We can illustrate how we are addressing those particular concerns. Right? One of them being malware in a container, we can look for stack. Rocks can look for a package manager that could be used to pull in, you know, code that could be exploited and you can stop a running container. Um, we can do deeper data collection with stack rocks. Again, one of the challenges when you're looking at moving your security capabilities from a traditional application environment is containers come and go all the time. In a kubernetes cluster nodes, your servers can come and go in a cloud native kubernetes cluster, right? If you're running on on cloud public cloud infrastructure, um, those things are the nodes are ephemeral to, they're designed to be shut down and brought back up. So you've got a lot more data that you need to collect and that you need to analyze and you need to correlate the information between these. Right? I no longer have one application stack running on one or more VMS, it's just things are things are moving fast so you want the right type of data collection and the right correlation to have good visibility into your environment. >>And if I can just build on that a little bit. The whole idea here is that these policies really serve as god rails right for the developers. So the it allows developers to move quickly to accelerate the speed of development without having to worry about hundreds of potential security issues because there are guardrails that will notify that with concrete recommendations early in the process. And the analogy I often use is that you know the reason we have breaks in our cars, it's not to slow us down but to allow us to go faster because we know we can slow down when we need to write. So similarly these policies are really it's really designed to accelerate the speed of development and accelerate digital transformation initiatives that our customers are embarking on >>and come on. I want to stick with you on the digital transformation front. We've talked so much about how accelerated that has been in the last year with everything going on in such a dynamic market. Talk to me Kamal about some of the feedback that you've gotten from stack rocks customers about the acquisition and how it is that maybe that facilitator of the many pivots that businesses have had to do in the last year to go from survival mode to thriving business. >>Yeah. Yes, absolutely. The feedback from all of our customers bar none has been very very positive. So it's been it's allowed us to invest more in the business and you know, we publicly stated that we are going to invest more in adding more capabilities. We are more than doubling the size of our teams as an example. And really working hand in hand with our uh the broader team at Red had to uh further accelerate the speed of development and digital transformation initiatives. So it's been extremely positive because we're adding more resources, We're investing more. We're accelerating the product roadmap uh based on uh compared to what we could do as a, as a start up as you can imagine. And and the feedback has been nothing but positive. So that's kind of where we are today. And what we're doing with the summit is rolling out a new bundle called open shift uh, Open shift platform plus, which includes not just Red hat A CS which used to be Stock rocks, but also red hat open shift hybrid cloud platform as well as Red hat advanced uh container cluster management, ACM capabilities as well as create the container registry. So we're making it easier for our customers to get all the capabilities that they need to for the drive digital transformation initiatives to get. It goes back to this whole customer centric city team that red hat has, that was also core value of stack rocks and and the winner and all of this, we believe ultimately is our, our our customers because that's where we exist to serve them, >>right. And I really like that if I could chime in kind of on top of that a little bit. Um so, so I think that one of the things we've seen with the pandemic is more of the red Hat customers are accelerating their move to public cloud and away from on premises data centers. Uh and and you know, that's just part partly because of so many people working remotely. Um it just has really pushed things. And so with Hybrid cloud becoming even more key to our joint customer base and by hybrid cloud, I mean that they have some environments that are on premises as they're making this transition. Some of those environments may stay that footprint may stay on premises, but it might be smaller, they may not have settled on a single public cloud. They could, in fact, they often are picking a public cloud based on where their development focuses. Google is very popular for ai and ml workloads. Amazon of course is just used, you know, by pretty much everybody. Um and then Azzurri is popular with um a subset of customers as well. And so we see our customers investing in all of these environments and stack rocks red hat A CS like open shift runs in all these environments. So with open shift platform plus you get a complete solution that helps with multi cluster management with a C. M with security across all of these environments, right? You can take one approach to how you secure your cluster, how you secure your workloads, how you manage configurations, You get one approach no matter where you're running your containers and kubernetes platform when you're doing this with open shift platform plus. So you also get portability. If today you want to be running an amazon maybe tomorrow you need to spin up a cluster in google, you can do that if you're working with the K s or G K E, you can or a Ks, you can do that with red hat a CS as well. So we really give you everything you need to be successful in this move and we give you back to that choice word, right? We give you the opportunity to choose and to migrate at the speed that works for you. >>So that's simplicity. That streamlining. I gotta ask you the last question here in our last couple of minutes. Come on, what's the integration process been like? as we said the acquisition just a couple of months in. But talk to me about that integration process. What that's been like? >>Yeah, absolutely. So as I mentioned earlier, the process has been very smooth so far, so two months in and it's largely driven by the common set of culture and core values that exists between our two companies. And so uh you know, from a product standpoint, we've been working hand in hand because I mentioned earlier, we were partners are working hand in hand on accelerating the road map the joint roadmap that we have here uh from a go to market perspective teams are well integrated. We are going to be rolling out the rolling out the bundle and we're gonna be rolling out additional uh options for our customers. We've also publicly announced that will be open sourcing uh red hat A. C. S. Uh formerly known as Stock Rock. So stay tuned for further news and that announcement. And, and so you know, uh, again two months and everybody's been super collaborative. Super helpful, super welcoming. And the team is the well settled and we're looking forward to now focusing on our primary objective is just to make sure that our customers are successful. >>Absolutely. That customer focus is absolutely critical. But also so is the employee experience. And it sounds like we both talked about the ethos and the and the core value alignment. They're probably being pretty critical to doing an integration during a very challenging time globally. I appreciate both of you joining me on the program today, sharing what's going on stack rocks now asks the opportunities for customers to have that built in cuBA and the security. Thanks so much for your time. >>Thank you. Thank >>you for Camel shaw and Kirsten newcomer. I'm lisa martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of Red Hat Summit, The virtual experience. Mhm

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. Yeah, welcome back to the Cubes. Live coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. It's virtual this year over three weeks. Next three weeks we're here on the ground, covering all the live action. Hundreds of videos Walter Wall coverage were virtual not in person this year. So we're bringing all the interviews remote. We have Deepak Singh, vice president of Compute Services. A range of things within Amazon's world. He's the container guy. He knows all what's going on with open source. Deepak, great to see you again. Sorry, we can't be in person, but that's the best we could do. Thanks for coming on. And big keynote news all year all over the keynote. Your DNA is everywhere in the keynote. Thanks for coming on. >>Yeah. Now, no thanks for having me again. It's always great to be on the Cube. Unfortunately, not sitting in the middle of the floral arrangement, which I kind of miss. I know, but it waas great morning for us. We had a number of announcements in the container space and sort of adjacent to that in the developer and operator experience space about making it easy for people to adopt things like containers and serverless. So we're pretty excited about. And his keynote today and the rest agreement. >>It's interesting, You know, I've been following Amazon. Now start a three invent. I've been using Amazon since easy to started telling that garment that story. But you look like the mainstream market right now. This is a wake up call for Cloud. Um, mainly because the pandemic has been forced upon everybody. I talked to Andy about that he brought up in the keynote, but you start to get into the meat on the bone here. When you're saying OK, what does it really mean? The containers, the server Lis, Uh, the machine learning all kind of tied together with computers getting faster. So you see an absolute focus of infrastructures of service, which has been the bread and butter for Amazon web services. But now that kinda you know, connective tissue between where the machine learning kicks in. This is where I see containers and lambda and serve Earless really kicking ass and and really fill in the hole there because that's really been the innovation story and containers air all through that and the eks anywhere was to me the big announcement because it shows Amazon's wow vision of taking Amazon to the edge to the data center. This is a big important announcement. Could you explain E. K s anywhere? Because I think this is at the heart of where customers are looking to go to its where the puck is going. You're skating to where the puck is. Explain the importance of eks anywhere. >>Yeah, I'll actually step back. And I talked about a couple of things here on I think some of the other announcements you heard today like the smaller outposts, uh, you know, the one you and do you outpost skills are also part of that story. So I mean, if you look at it, AWS started thinking about what will it take for us to be successful in customers data centers a few years ago? Because customers still have data centers, they're still running there On our first step towards that Waas AWS in many ways benefits a lot from the way we build hardware. How what we do with nitro all the way to see C two instance types that we have. What we have a GPS on our post waas. Can we bring some of the core fundamental properties that AWS has into a customer data center, which then allowed PCs any KS and other AWS services to be run on output? Because that's how we run today. But what we started hearing from customers waas That was not enough for two reasons. One, not all of them have big data centers. They may want to run things on, you know, in a much smaller location. I like to think about things like oil rates of point of sale places, for they may have existing hardware that they still plan to use and intend to use for a very long time with the foundational building blocks easy to EBS. Those get difficult when we go on to hardware. That is not a W s hardware because be very much depend on that. But it containers we know it's possible. So we started thinking about what will it take for us to bring the best of AWS toe help customers run containers in their own data center, so I'll start with kubernetes, so with que binaries. People very often pick Kubernetes because they start continue rising inside their own data centers. And the best solution for them is Cuban Aires. So they learn it very well. They understand it, their organizations are built around it. But then they come to AWS and run any chaos. And while communities is communities, if you're running upstream, something that runs on Prem will run on AWS. They end up in two places in sort of two situations. One, they want to work with AWS. They want to get our support. They want to get our expertise second, most of them once they start running. Eks realized that we have a really nice operational posture of a D. K s. It's very reliable. It scales. They want to bring that same operational posture on Prem. So with the ts anywhere what we decided to do Waas start with the bits underlying eks. The eks destroyed that we announced today it's an open source communities distribution with some additional pieces that that we had some of the items that we use that can be run anywhere. They're not dependent on AWS. You don't even have be connected to a W s to use eks destro, but we will Patrick. We will updated. It's an open source project on get help. So that's a starting point that's available today. No, Over the next several months, what will add is all of the operational to link that we have from chaos, we will make available on premises so that people can operate the Cuban and these clusters on Prem just the way they do on AWS. And then we also announced the U. K s dashboard today which gives you visibility into our communities clusters on AWS, and we'll extend that so that any communities clusters you're running will end up on the dashboard to get a single view into what's going on. And that's the vision for eks anywhere, which is if you're running communities. We have our operational approach to running it. We have a set of tools that we're gonna that we have built. We want everybody to have access to the same tools and then moving from wherever you are to aws becomes super easy cause using the same tooling. We did something similar with the C s as well the DCs anywhere. But we did it a little bit differently. Where in the CSU was centralized control plane and all we want for you is to bring a CPU and memory. The demo for that actually runs in a bunch of raspberry PiS. So as long as you can install the C s agent and connect to an AWS region, you're good to go. So same problem. Different, slightly different solutions. But then we are customers fall into both buckets. So that's that's the general idea is when we say anywhere it means anywhere and we'll meet you there >>and then data centers running the case in the data center and cloud all good stuff. The other thing that came out I want you to explain is the importance of what Andy was getting to around this notion of the monolith versus Micro Services at one slightly put up. And that's where he was talking about Lambda and Containers for smaller compute loads. What does it mean? What was he talking about there? Explain what he means by that >>that Z kind of subtle and quite honestly, it's not unique to London containers. That's the way the world was going, except that with containers and with several functions with panda. You got this new small building blocks that allow you to do it that much better. So you know you can break your application off. In the smaller and smaller pieces, you can have teams that own each of those individual pieces each other pieces. Each of these services can be built using architecture that you secret, some of them makes sense. Purely service, land and media gateway. Other things you may want to run on the C s and target. Ah, third component. You may have be depending on open source ecosystem of applications. And there you may want to run in communities. So what you're doing is taking up what used to be one giant down, breaking up into a number of constituent pieces, each of which is built somewhat independently or at least can be. The problem now is how do you build the infrastructure where the platform teams of visibility in tow, what all the services are they being run properly? And also, how do you scale this within an organization, you can't train an entire organ. Communities overnight takes time similar with similarly with server list eso. That's kind of what I was talking about. That's where the world is going. And then to address that specific problem we announced AWS proton, uh, AWS program is essentially a service that allows you to bring all of these best practices together, allows the centralized team, for example, to decide what are the architectures they want to support. What are the tools that they want to support infrastructure escort, continuous delivery, observe ability. You know all the buzzwords, but that's where the world's going and then give them a single framework where they can deploy these and then the developers can come into self service. It's like I want to build a service using Lambda. I don't even learn how toe put it all together. I'm just gonna put my coat and pointed at this stock that might centralized team has built for me. All I need to do is put a couple of parameters, um, and I'm off to the races and not scale it to end, and it gives you the ability to manage also, So >>it's really kind of the building blocks pushing that out to the customer. I gotta ask you real quick on the proton. That's a fully managed service created best. Could you explain what that means for the developer customer? What's the bottom line? What's the benefit to >>them? So the biggest benefit of developers if they don't need to become an expert at every single technology out there, they can focus on writing application court, not have to learn how to crawl into structure and how pipelines are built and what are the best practices they could choose to do. So the developers, you know, modern and companies Sometimes developers wear two hats and the building off, the sort of underlying scaffolding and the and the build applications for application development. Now all you have to do is in writing an application code and then just go into a proton and say, This is architecture, that I'm going to choose your self, service it and then you're off to the races. If there's any underlying component that's changing, or any updates are coming on, put on it automatically take care off updates for you or give you a signal that says, Hey, the stock has to be updated first time to redeploy accord so you can do all of that in a very automated fashion. That's why everything is done. Infrastructures Gold. It's like a key, uh, infrastructure and told us, and continuous delivery of sort of key foundational principles off put on. And what they basically do is doing something that every company that we talked oh wants to do. But only a handful have the teams and the skill set to do that. It takes a lot of work and it takes ah lot of retraining. And now most companies don't need to do that. Or at least not in that here. So I think this is where the automation and manageability that brings makes life a lot easier. >>Yeah, a lot of drugs. No docker containers. They're very familiar with it. They want to use that. Whatever. Workflow. Quickly explain again to me so I can understand fully the benefit of the lamb container dynamic. Because what was the use case there? What's the problem that you solve? And what does it mean for the developer? What specifically is going on there? What's the What's the benefit? Why would I care? >>Yeah, eso I'll actually talked about one of the services that my team runs called it of your stature. AWS batch has a front time that's completely serverless. It's Lambda and FBI did play its back in the PCs running on the city right? That's the better the back end services run on their customers. Jobs in the running. Our customers are just like that. You know, we have many customers out there that are building services that are either completely service, but they fit that pattern. They are triggered by events. They're taking an event from something and then triggering a bunch of services or their triggering an action which is doing some data processing. And then they have these long running services, which almost universally in our running on containment. How do you bring all of this together into a single framework, as opposed to some people being experts on Lambda and some people being experts and containers? That's not how the real world works. So trying to put all of this because these teams do work together into a single framework was our goal, because that's what we see our customers doing, and I think they'll they'll do it. More related to that is the fact that Lambda now supports Dr Images containing images as a packaging format because a lot of companies have invested in tooling, toe build container images and our land. I can benefit from that as well. While customers get all the, you know, magic, The Lambda brings you >>a couple of years ago on this on the Cube. I shared this tweet out earlier in the week. Andy, we pressed and even services launches like, would you launch build Amazon on Lamb? Day says we probably would. And then he announced to me And he also I think you mentioned the keynote that half of Amazon's new APS are built on lambda. >>Yeah, that's good. This >>is a new generation of developers. >>Oh, absolutely. I mean, you should talk to the Lambda today also, but even like even in the container side, almost half of the new container customers that we have on AWS in 2020 have chosen target, which is serverless containers. They're not picking E c s or E. T. S and running at least two. They're running it on target the vast majority of those two PCs, but we see that trend on the container side as well, and actually it's accelerating. More and more and more new customers will pick target, then running containers on the city. >>Deepak, great to chat with you. I know you gotta go. Thanks for coming on our program. Breaking down the keynote analysis. You've got a great, um, focus area is only going to get hotter and grow faster and a lot more controversy and goodness coming at the same time. So congratulations. >>Thank you. And always good to be here. >>Thanks for coming on. This is the Cube Virtual. We are the Cube. Virtual. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching.

>> live from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco. We continue our coverage here. Live on the Cube. 10th year John of covering Veum World This is 29 teens version John for John Wall's Got to have inside the Moscone Center. We're joined now by Varun Chabrol It was the vice president of marketing at Delhi M. C. Good to see you today. >> Thanks for having me. >> How's your week been? So far? >> It's been amazing. How can you don't get excited? All the innovation we're seeing this week >> we'll hear about some big announcements. Do you guys have made? And Moon Young Man Azzedine, who is the vice president of product marketing that for cloud security and works based solutions at Veum wear when you're good to see you. >> Good to see you again. You, By >> the way, you might be the busiest guy here. Yesterday, when you came into the set, you were coming in. Just spoken to 1300 people in a standing room only session You coming out? 500 folks, How many sessions have you done? The seven. So >> you don't count the the one on one with the analyst. And, uh, you know, the customers and partners and press. And tomorrow actually host ah 140 press media analyst on campus in Palo Alto from Asia Pacific because they float all the way from Asia >> plus 140. Yeah, it's a piece of cake. >> Yeah, hose them from 10 to 4. So, I mean, >> you're always smiling >> knowing that this is a pretty wide audience to whom you've been speaking. But just generally, what are you if there's a common thread at all about the kinds of questions that people are coming to you with, or or the concerns or maybe just the things they want to talk about being inspired. But what they're hearing here at the show, >> Okay. Now, according to two aspects of it, one obviously from analysts themselves, you know, they are actually have been very complimentary about the way we've taken our approach. I'm not sure if you could have paid attention. In the last couple of years, we've been talking especially the cloud side, the narrative, to be very much about use cases, solving problems. You know the key? No, we talked about hate my grade modernize. It wasn't about Hey, I've got the next big product here with all these features and capabilities. You do this and that. So we're gonna shifted out narrative. And it was very, you know, the the analyst across the boat. You know, we've been seeing an appreciative of the fact that you actually changing a narrative to be re compelling and we're gonna reflected. And we have some things here like Cloud City, where it's not a standard demo boot. It's a it's ah, Customers walk in and they touch and feel and see which we did it, Adele technology will, too. It's like, What's your business? Probably going through these applications. I'm sitting. I don't know if I should be modernizing them or should be migrating into Amazon. A ridge or so. So you know that narrative the analysts are appreciative off, and that reflects into the customer conversations I've been having in the briefings, like one on one with customers. They're really kind of lost us. D'oh! Hey, I've I'm working in this environment. There's a lot of pressure for me. Thio modernize my applications or go adopt my cloud. First strategy is where do I start? Where do I go? It's like, you know, there's a big pressure, so they just want clarity. I think in the end, everything we're gonna we're doing in our study that comes out obviously the buzzword for this weird world. It stanza, right? And, you know, >> we've won the product announcements was >> actually Brandon can Oh, yeah. Branding announcement, to be honest is yeah, because we're trying to bring together, as you know, in Tansy has landed in Bill Run Manage billed as in you know how our intent to acquire Pivotal Already acquired Big Tommy. How all our different acquisitions with different brand names are coming together to establish our bills portfolio again. The sphere. Everybody knows the sphere Project Pacific P ks. All of those create a good run time, environment and manageability like Adi manage with assets from ve Franta gain morbid Nami and you know it. So this multiple brands that are coming into this package off Iran. So we had a creative tan Xue too, you know, put forward statement together that yes is going to be 78 different brands coming into this, but going forward to stand. >> So so that's a great strategy on De Liam Seaside on Del Technology. Michael Dell was in here and I asked him. I said he could have been number one in everything you could. Let's talk about I'm number one in servers again. You kind of get on HP, little baby. But those air peace parts now. So we've got the cloud game. It's bringing despair it at parts together kind and making it coherent from a positioning standpoint and understandable and deployable. So you guys are going down there. That's your cloud strategy. Take a minute to explain that. >> Yeah, absolutely, John. So So what? What we've been doing. We announced this at Del Technologies will this year. But, you know, in the cloud infrastructure space, we're working very closely with the anywhere too tightly integrate our hardware solutions with their their cloud software. And we think that by combining these two in a tightly integrated joined engineer, jointly engineered solutions coupled with the service, is that you know, both of'em were and l e m c bring the customers we think we have. We're giving customers are very consistent experience both with their own premises, infrastructure with public cloud as well as with the edge cloud. And that's really what we're trying to do. That's what we've been building upon and uniting the announcements this week. You know, just just hopefully show customers that the sky's the limit, whether it's not just your infrastructure management. Also app development. Managing your APS both traditional and and cloud native. It's all here for And >> what's the big takeaway free from your standpoint that you'd like people to know about what's going on? Adele the emcee for the VM. Where relation. What's the big top item? >> Yeah, there's there's there's just so much good Doctor Wait forever drank the town about. If someone rises >> way, only have two hours >> time work. The most important thing that people should should know about it, >> you know, both deli M. C and V. M. R. I think, are very, very customer driven companies that we respond to customer feedback and we try to respond to them very fast. That's been true to our respective lifetimes and what we've done in the so that I think there's two broad areas of collaboration. One is in the cloud space, which is all about, you know, making sure that the the innovation that GM is bringing the market, we're providing that in a toy tightly integrated infrastructure solution. Right. So we announced from a deli in seaside support for Vienna, where p ks being deployed automatically on Vieques trail using VCF return. Our customers can you know, a lot of teams were telling us we have our developers and turning developers banging slash knocking on the door, saying we need to build a cloud. Native applications. You need to give us an environment that we can use. And you know, if if all righty, if these IittIe teams don't turn around and give them something relatively quickly Well, guess what? The developers will go somewhere else, right? Yeah, exactly. So And if you look at the kubernetes environment today, if you really look look at what the work that's required to set up kubernetes and ready infrastructure. So a lot of scripting a lot of manual, you know, work command line interface is testing stuff. And what what? V m r p k s does. And you know what times you will do as well is really makes it easy when we've taken that with the magic of the American Foundation sitting on top of the exhale to make it super easy for our customers to be able to deploy kubernetes ready infrastructure and then have it be ready for scale, right? And then the important thing here also is this is the same infrastructure of the expelling bcf that our customers are using for traditional applications as well, right? Trying to reduce that complexity. Give them the one platform. So this cloud, you know, we had we were doing the same integration on just with R A C I platform, but also with our best to breach storage or we're not working with the C f. And then we're also making investments on data protection like it's so important to be able to manage your data in this multi cloud world. We have applications sitting everywhere, data. We all know that it is a crown jewel. So >> it's really a king validating from the Vienna a point of view. How that works right is is about applications is about the infrastructure, and it's about the operation and it really kind of together as we talk about Han Xue p. K s is giving our customers that Chuy's off. You pick Cuban eighties, you know, environments, application choice. >> Um, >> it took us. Actually, we didn't We didn't arrive it in that order. Wait. Did it. In the outer off Infrastructure Plot Foundation is a critical piece of the joint engineering. But being aware and the Della Bella Technologies is really from aviary perspective. It took Locke Foundation, and that's the stack that runs in every public cloud. So, you know AWS as your G C P 4000 plus, you know, cloud provider partners. But Flat Foundation is a platform that was validated on. They'll take hardware and you know, that's the package. But now, as you see, we're lighting that it's same infrastructure up for traditional and culminated applications. >> I think the app sides important to point out, because if you could ve m wears heritage, you look at Dale's heritage. You had abs that ran on PCs absent, ran on servers, client server. And if you look at the fertilization that wasn't under the covers, apt an innovation that didn't require code changes. So that's the DNA that you guys have. Now, when you think about like cloud to point out which we've been riffing on that concept that's basically enterprise cloud mean donut. Hybrid cloud applications are gonna drive. The value on our premises is that they're going to be customer requirements that traditionally wouldn't have fit in the product. Marketing, management, featureless customs. Gonna define what they want. They'll build it, and then they'll dictate to the infrastructure to make it run. What? We can't do that yet. It'll be, Yes, we cannot be enabled to be dynamics. This is a a new cloud. 2.0, feature. This changes the complete game on suppliers >> completely agree. You know to your point, because, you know, you bring it thio back toward civilization. We've been going higher up the stack on So Day zero virtualization infrastructure will virtual eyes. So the line off abstraction has just been climbing from hardware retort realization next to like, you know, Pat platform of the service, and you kind of were working up our way down infrastructure. Now that base infrastructure platform looks like plants. Right? >> And there were times out a little bit over here. On the upside, you meet in the middle of >> it in the middle >> that is Hello, >> absolutely so ap and at middle wears shrinking down this way. Infrastructures. You know that the cloud incriminating stride in the middle to say, Well, that's a bit of, you know, infrastructure is a Kodak and pull. He's a bit of a AP AP eyes I can can I draw from And that's kind of nice future middleware. But our dad, I >> mean, I think applications air in charge, right? I mean, that's not sure That's the dynamic. That's the way it should be. But it never was that way before is basically the infrastructure was your gating factor. The network exact cloud two points Network security data. Yes, Dev Ops. A true Dev Ops Devane, Ops, Infrastructures Code. >> The only point I wanted to add is the reason the emphasis on abscess change acts in the past. Used to be a business support system after today is business. >> Yeah, I mean, it's >> really or you're you're gonna live or die based on the digital services you provide your customers. The other thing I was going to say about cloud 2.0, is that it's also becoming increasingly clear when we Dr customers that, um, customers are realizing Cloud is not a place right. There was this kind of cloud. One point it was okay. Big honking data centers, hyper skaters will be found now is that customers have gone through that process of and there's a lot more maturity in terms of understanding. What is good, better running on premises. What is what's better running in public Cloud? There's a place for both of them and that, um, and the cloud is actually the automation, the service delivery. It's Maurin operation and a way of being almost than a place. >> And what is it? Well, what does it do for you all? Then, in terms of challenge, especially at your teams, because you talk about all this customization, you're allowing the application to almost drive. You know, you're changing places in terms of who's the power of the relationship? Yes. Oh, me, yeah, How what? What does that do for you? Oh, in terms of how you approach that, how you change of mindset and how you change what you deliver? >> I think John, it's the way I think about it is that both daily emcee in Vienna, or any technology provider that's worth their salt is in the business of building platforms. Right? And platforms are essentially extensible. They're really they really provide a foundation that other people can innovate on top of it. And that's how I think you handled the customers issue. If one thing I think we can all agree on is that I t has always taught us there's no one size fits. All right? Right. So I think providing choice along every single dimension is super important for our >> customers. Yeah, I think that platform thing is a huge point. And I was gonna ask that question before John got jumped in because one of the things that you just brought up was platform is you guys have to build an enabling platform. One as suppliers. Okay, The successful cloud to point out cos are ones that are innovating in weird areas. Monitoring, for instance, they who will have thought that monitoring now observe ability would be such a massive, lucrative sector four. I pose M and A Why? Because it's data. It's instrumentation. This is operating system kind of thinking here is like network. So thinking like a platform on the supplier size one, the customers got to start thinking like a platform because their stakeholders air their internal developers or a P I shipping to suppliers. This is new for enterprises. This is news requires full hybrid capability. This requires date at the center of the value proposition. >> That's again the biggest value is business and I tr coming together on the area of applications and data. Yeah, that's starting up giving because the successful businesses are the ones who leveraged. Those guys have failed in the future, or the ones who don't pay attention to how critical applications are to the business logic and how critical data is to be able to mine and get the behavioral analytics to get ahead. And >> now the challenge in all this. But I'm learning and covering some of the public sector activity from the C I. A contract Jedi with Amazon to we had Raytheon Her here earlier is another customer example with another client is that procurement? And how they do business is not just a technical thing. There's like all this old legacy, things like, How do you procure technology, who you hire her and we hire developers? We build our own stack, so there's a lot of things going on. >> Yes, and you know, it's really interesting on the even on the procurement front, how our customers experience with Cloud has changed expectations, right, And that's really what we're doing with the McLaren DMC is what customers told us is, Hey, I love the agility of the cloud portal based access. Easy procurement. I love just being able to click a button and not have to navigate all this complexity. I need that for my own premises infrastructure. Imagine FRA structure. And that's, you know, in an example, while all of these dynamics are really all converging, >> well, if you can create abstraction, layer on a level of complexity and make things easy, simple and affordable, that's good business. Model >> one of our customers without taking the name right. The massive retailer you know they're spinning up, um, the retail outlets like crazy. They measure success in This was one truck roll, so they wanna have the entire infrastructure come into stand up one of the retail outlets in one truck roll. When everything comes in one button push that everything gets in a provision and up together. >> So that means I gotta have full software instrumentation automation Got intelligence. This is kind of where cloud 2.0, will lead us all >> likely. And that's expectation now that they go so fast and deploying this one Truck roll Hardware's there. Switch it on from the cloud it stood up and they're in operation 24 hours. >> Well, guys, we're going to get you on our power panels in our Palace of studio on this topic cloudy. But it's gonna be very aggressive and controversial topic because it's going to challenge the status quo. And that's really what this we're talking about >> that's in our DNA. >> And the good news is that that's more time with John. >> So as we before, we say so long, we've talked about clients. We talked about the folks you bet here. We talked about the presentation on this thing and what they're all getting out of it. What are you getting out of this? I mean, what are your takeaways? As you had back to your respective work orders, you get first. Okay? >> I think for me the biggest takeaway is just how incredibly vibrant via more user communities. I mean, it is unlike anything else I've seen before and now with the things like Project Pacific. I just feel like it's It's an opportunity for this community to be able to take the skills they have right now and actually go into this brave new world of containers with so much help forces having to do this all by yourself. Which means it's gonna be, you know, if you think about how largest community is, think about how much innovation this will spore in the container space and because of that in the application space and then because of that in business is I mean, this is a It just feels like a tipping point for me >> to me. Sure, I got high fives from every tech geek, you know, when we came out, you know, I also on our technical advisory boats for the company that these are the hot core geeks who were followed and you know us to the, you know, these were the fans and they were like, you know, they always kind of like if you walk out of them and you talk to them and they, uh how did it work? Because they my bar, you have a very high bar. They cut through all your marketing messaging. They go right to the hay. Is there meet in this And the high fives? I got the hajj. I got out. This is like, guys, you're nailing it. That's enough to tell me that a This is, like, 10 years ago. Yeah, that body. It's like you're so busy. I'm still smiling because the energy is I >> can't give you a hug. Give me a high five. Right. Good work, gentlemen. Thanks for the time. Always, he's still smiling to >> get you to a step. >> Good deal. Thanks for being with us. Thank you. Live on the Cube. You're watching our coverage in world 2019. Where? San Francisco. Back with more. Right after this.