>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone and welcome back it's theCUBE coverage live in San Francisco at Moscone South for Google Cloud Next 18, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, next guest is Jennifer Lin, Director of Product Management, Google Cloud featured in Forbes as one of the power women at Google Cloud. Congratulations on your Forbes distinction. >> Thanks so much John. >> Great to see you. So we had a chat before the event, couple weeks ago leading up to it around Istio, Kubernetes. You're in charge of a lot of the cool, I would say the modern middleware. >> Yes. >> That's going on. I want to say middleware kind of in quotes, it's not really middleware, it's cloud, it's horizontally scalable. Take a minute to explain some of the areas you're working on and then the importance of Istio's announcement today that 1.0 generally available, huge news, it's kind of nuanced it's not as big as the cloud sources platform and some of the Cisco relationships, but huge progress. >> Yes. >> In this services, microservices, this is the key part. Take a minute to explain. >> Yeah, we're really excited to get to this week and I think the announcement of the cloud services platform of which, obviously, the evolution of Kubernetes and Istio are a key part. Now we've kind of changed the way people manage container environments, and now people are really writing really innovative services and microservices and the ability to manage that easily is really what Istio's all about. And do that in a secure way. >> So we had the CEO Sundar Pichai on the stage, of Google proper, as Diane Greene was also on stage. Sundar made the comment, this is the only event I could make a containers and Kubernetes joke. >> Yes, with the big containers. >> Translate, he's smart, he knows tech. Very strong tech culture here. Jennifer, explain to the people why Google Cloud is differentiating around APIs and services and open source. Why is that so important? >> At heart I think we really are a software innovation company, and Google is a company of developers that want to do creative things with software. As Diane said this morning, I think the, sort of, ability to do that in a way that hides the complexity, but also excites emerging developers with all the things that they can do, I think that's what we're seeing in cloud. Originally we started very much with the cloud natives who were doing very new types of consumer applications. As Sundar said, when we moved into doing business applications and more and more people were developing enterprise applications with a cloud native model, we started to see a big uptake and adoption of our cloud platform. And I think with a lot of the things we're doing in security and the ability to enable administrators to kind of, manage that in a more automated way, that's a lot of what I think we're differentiating around. >> So one of the headlines that I can see happening on these on SiliconANGLE or TechCrunch or some of the blogs and publications out there is Google Doubles Down on Kubernetes. >> Yes. >> And the announcement of Istio's general availability of 1.0 certainly is good news, what does that mean? What should people know about the importance of Kubernetes doubling down as a momentum point for Google and the importance of Istio? What is the real benefit to the customer? >> We've had a managed Kubernetes environment on GCP for four years now, but before that, Urs talked about a decade worth of understanding how to scale Kubernetes in an operational environment. So we've learned a lot of domain knowledge there that we're kind of baking into the software platform itself. Istio really models the way we do microservice management, as we launch billions of containers a week. So how do we essentially secure the service environment? How do we give really good visibility? We showed the service graph where we can see the latency between two services, and really hide a lot of the back end complexity that really, from an operational perspective, is causing a lot of toil for application developers as well as operators. >> I notice toil is a word that's being kicked around the Google community a lot, toil being headaches, pains, but I wanted you to take a minute to explain for the folks that are learning about Kubernetes for the first time. Kubernetes was donated, or donated by an open source but by Google, but prior to Kubernetes, you guys have been running Borg, which is the internal system. >> That's right. >> That's been the foundation of the scale of the service management for all of Google. >> That's right. >> Explain that important history there, and how you're making Kubernetes easy to consume because most companies aren't Google. >> Yes. >> Explain the little history and then how it translates to consumption. >> I think Borg was really built and designed to keep developer agility up and make sure that developers could be very productive, but we could run essentially at global scale the container orchestration environment. When Kubernetes was donated to the open source community, there were some things that needed to be defined, such that the abstractions could be very clean outside of a Google environment. But that framework, obviously, held up very well and hence the growth with Kubernetes. Istio, I think similarly, models a lot of the way that we've done service management with the service mesh within Google. Obviously the names are slightly different, but there's a lot of operational domain knowledge on best practices and how to essentially enable automation at a much more granular level of applications. Where it's not a bunch of proprietary applications, but you have a lot of loosely coupled systems coming together. >> So, Jennifer, the maturity curve of the developer community, obviously is in some bell shape. >> Yes. >> How does Google approach engaging with those developers? Are you trying to get leading edge guys that want to develop software the way Google develops software? Obviously you're trying to reach a bigger market, so how do you balance those two? >> I think that's where open source is the most exciting, 'cause whether it's kids in school or very experienced developers, number one the transparency, things move so fast, a lot of that is about developer reach. But also about the participation of developers to give back to the community and help evolve the system. For something like Kubernetes, obviously, and Istio, Google sort of bootstrapped that and donated it to the community, but since then, we've seen just incredible participation at things like Kubecon, and developer hackathons, et cetera. So that's both a model for growing the community, but also just to educate and share, essentially, a lot of the best practices in a different type of way than most software companies, I think. >> Well, and you've worked at a lot of very successful enterprise companies, some very profitable enterprise companies. I get the sense that profit is an outcome of doing good work at Google. >> Yeah. >> You don't wake up in the morning and say okay, how am I going to make money? >> Yeah. >> You say, how am I going to do work and you don't seem to be stressing. I guess it helps that you have $100 billion in the balance sheet. But is that the right way to think about how you guys think about the marketplace? >> Yeah, I think the goal is very clear for us and I know Sundar talked about it a lot, the alignment between our original mission at Google and the opportunity we see in Cloud. Data is exploding, new applications are being written in a way that really brings together worlds that didn't come together before. Healthcare applications where you need to share a lot of data, people need to do research, and you need to make it very easy to share, but at the same time it needs to be highly secure. We're under the same pressures as any other enterprise in terms of regulatory environments, et cetera, so making all of that easy, I think is the reason why open source and open ecosystems make a lot of sense to us. It's just the only way to move fast, and actually make sure that we're bringing the whole community with us. >> But not everybody takes that philosophy, obviously. It's one that you're attuned to. But when you think about Google's posture in this community, I mean you started kind of late to the enterprise game, don't seem to be too stressed about it, you're developing the ecosystem. We've seen in this world, some of the companies you work with, it's winner take all. >> Yeah. >> Is Cloud just so big that there's plenty of room for everybody? Or is it winner take all in different segments? How do you think about that? >> Our leadership, to Diane, basically really sees this as we're playing the long game. And it is about driving adoption more so than essentially quarter to quarter revenue. When we're reinventing how software is designed and delivered, and published, et cetera, and shared? I think it is not going to be the monetization per quarter, which, many of the companies, I think, have to be under the pressure for. Within Google, I think we really do see this as the future of software, and that's going to take some time, but yeah. Urs talked a lot about spend has gone up in many enterprise environments despite the fact that they are changing their environment. Automation is a way to bring down a lot of the cost, so we believe there's a lot of value to be captured there, but we're not in a race to essentially monetize every piece of every product we put out there. >> So how do you measure your success? Is it just a feeling that, yeah we're doing good work? Or adoption, or? >> Adoption and the happiness of our customers and the lead partners that we work with. Our leadership is very focused on that. We want to prove it out with some trusted partners and customers, and I think some of those were on stage today. Make sure that it's replicable, and make sure that we leave our options open. 'Cause you never know what's going to happen in the next year. >> I got to ask you about the on-prem solution that was demoed today >> Yup. >> Actually they put a little easter egg in the demo and then came back and said, oh by the way, that node was on-premise. >> Yep. >> And Cloud. One of the things we talked about, and you've been harping on this, about Kubernetes orchestrating an abstraction at higher levels of services. >> Yes. >> Both in the cloud and on-premise. >> Yes. >> It's happening now, that was really elegant. Is that a demo? Is that actually shipping code? How far along are you? >> Yeah. >> Where's the head room in this? Explain this important phenomenon, because this is multi-cloud, and I've been really negative on multi-cloud, until we see things like this. This is easy to understand. >> Yeah. >> Your thoughts? >> Now that you really have workload portability and a common abstraction layer, and a single point of administrative control, there's a lot you can do there. And that was really hard to do, I think, with the proprietary systems. That wasn't just a demo, a lot of customers are starting to see that they have to think about hybrid and multi-cloud in a different way. And using some of these innovative technologies with containerization, you don't have to worry about the kernel version and the OS and a lot of the toil that was in the system before. So yeah, I think we're coming at hybrid cloud and multi-cloud in a way that no other cloud provider is, and that was, I think, the start of what a lot of customers have waited for. >> Yeah, and certainly this is the benefit of a Kubernetes and Istio now has got some capabilities into it, policy and that's still going to evolve. The question I want to put to you, and I'll play the devil's advocate role. Shouldn't the multi-cloud be an independent group? Or if I'm going to say, "Okay Google, I'm nervous, you're going to do all this stuff." There's a trust there, how do you guys answer the naysayers who might say it should be an independent organization handling multi-cloud. What's the answer to that? >> I think that's why a lot of the partners that we worked on initially with something like Istio, IBM and Lyft, they also didn't want to be locked into any one cloud provider. And we've done some things in the marketplace where we believe that the future is hybrid and multi-cloud. I think from a technology perspective, just making sure that essentially we can define those interfaces in a way that's not tied to a vendor implementation, be transparent. We have in Istio things like partner mixer adapters, that ecosystem is growing very quickly, so that pluggable adapter model allows the whole ecosystem to participate. >> And the role of open source in all this, obviously STO, we were at the Linux Foundation's CNCF covering this pretty heavily in Denmark just recently, we've spoken about it. How does all the action happening here at Google Next impact open source? What's going upstream, what are some of the updates, can you share what's going on in open source with Google? >> Istio 1.0 is essentially an announcement about the open source effort. I think we also saw that many of our enterprise customers want a managed environment. So just like Kubernetes, we have the open source Kubernetes which is rockin' and rollin' along, we have our managed Kubernetes commercial offer. Now that there's a level of maturity in the managed Kubernetes environment, and people are excited that Istio 1.0 is getting more mature, they want that to be a part of the evolution of their managed Kubernetes environment. Which is why we're starting to see just the whole stack evolve. First we abstracted the infrastructure, now we can manage services, and then we can bring in a whole new type of ecosystem. So, it's very exciting. >> So here's a philosophical question for you, Dave and I always like to talk about old new way. So old IT is like horse and carriage, and buggy, and cloud is like the first car, now you got sports car. How do you explain all the under the hood examples of the engine? >> Yeah. >> The car just drives. You don't have to feed the horses the hay, what's the new benefits that the old world won't see with clarity? Can you tease out, from your perspective, what are some of those things that go away and say, wow, we used to do that? What are some of the things? >> I think, even within how we build our products, we're very focused on user experience. And sometimes the user is a developer, sometimes the user is an administrator, and sometimes the user is the end user, in our case, maybe the customer's customer. So we do a lot of UX research, but like you said, there's a lot of complexity in a car, but when I drive a car, I just want to drive the car. So the user experience for the driver is very different from the mechanic who's fixing the engine. There's no doubt that there is a lot of complexity in these large-scale, global distributed systems, but many of our enterprise customers don't want to know every little bit of how it's built. What they want to know is some declarative end-state of what they want to get to. The functions that they want or application that they're trying to drive. That is the maturity level that we're at, where Istio hides a lot of that complexity, provides a common service abstraction, but still gives essentially the administrators the things that they need out of the system. >> Well and it speaks to as well, and you guys talked about this in your interview, how software's being developed and how that's changing. When I deal with Spotify, if I have a problem, I don't call up. >> No. >> Their billing department, or their customer service department, I just do it. >> Yes. >> And that's the way software is going to be developed in the future. >> Yes. >> Versus the way most enterprise. >> And you talk about a great customer of GCP, Spotify, I use them everyday as well, but yeah, that is a lot about user experience. But what they've done with machine learning, to basically serve up the song that I want to hear that day, based on the playlists I had before, it really is changing how software is done. >> So if you look at some of these old metaphors like horses versus cars, you mentioned that. Jobs get automated away with that old model, but yet there's new jobs are created. >> Yes. >> So I want you to talk about what's going away and what's evolving. 'Cause the value is shifting up the stack with higher level sets of services and new abstractions. >> Yup. >> Which you don't need to know all the details, just magic happens for the customer. There's new value being created. >> Yup. >> You could almost look at the market and say, IT operations, decimated. Manual configuration, decimated. >> Yes, well. I mean that's the history. >> That's my words. >> Of technology. The history of technology is moving forward and automating things. For Google, obviously, we don't think of the software layer as just the infrastructure layer. A lot of what we're trying to get to is essentially with things like machine learning and analytics, and that's real business value that people really had too much toil to essentially stitch the systems together. >> Yes. >> Now as the platform evolves, I think it just becomes one stack. And we can put those tools into-- >> Is there an API administrator? 'Cause you start to see people starting wiring services together. >> Yep. >> Between building blocks. >> Yes. >> So almost the cloud model. Right? >> Yep. >> So is that a API administrator? Is it code? >> You know-- >> There's still a human component. We agree. >> Yes, yes. >> But what is that new role? >> I think we've always had the notion of API management, with cloud endpoints and our apogee acquisition. APIs are evolving with microservices, and a lot of the partners that essentially have been in that space are all re-basing on something like Istio where they can do service management at a higher level. The API is part of it. Within Google, we use things like protobufs, where you have structured data and message protocols that essentially are not just an API. We think about API and service management hand in hand. Both of those things I think are changing. >> So my final question for you, I want to get your advice to any of the practitioners out there or customers that really want to take cloud native because with the containers, Kubernetes and Istio, you can actually manage lifecycle of old stuff and still bring in the new. >> Yup. >> You guys do API service management, you got cloud endpoints, billing, commerce, marketplace, Kubernetes serverless, and Istio is kind of a focus group. What's your advice and what's coming next that people should be aware of? For the folks who want to go cloud native, want to put the more gas, less brake, put the pedal to the metal with cloud native and not foreclose or have to do a rip and replace. Manage their existing lifecycle applications and to bring in the new with cloud native. What's your advice? >> I think build for the future, make sure you don't get stuck in a silo. We often see that different pace of customers and the way they're moving to cloud native. Our tagline for this conference was also, we're bringing the cloud to our enterprise customers, they can move at their own pace. We recognize that sometimes the migration challenges are pretty tough with their legacy systems. But they have a much clearer view now, in terms of where software is going, so depending on the steps they want to take, we want to enable that either natively, with what we're doing with CSP, or enabling partners to take phased approach to that end state. >> Awesome, and ultimately the developers for the applications >> Absolutely. >> Will win on this. Jennifer Lin, Director of Product Management at Google Cloud here inside theCUBE, breaking down all the action around APIs, service management, and why it's important as the modern middleware within the cloud, enabling developers. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Back with more live coverage here in San Francisco after this short break. Stay with us. (electronic music)

>> live from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Google Club Next nineteen Rodeo by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back. Everyone's the live Cube covers here in San Francisco for Google Cloud. Next nineteen. I'm Javert Day Volante here on the ground floor, day two of three days of wall to wall coverage to great guests. We got Kartik lost. Meena Ryan, product management director of Cloud Identity for Google and Kim parent chief security officer for Doctor on Demand. Guys, welcome to the Cube. Appreciated Coming on. >> Great to be here. >> Thank you so honestly Way covering Google Cloud and Google for many, many years. And one of the things that jumps out at me, besides allows the transformation for the enterprise is Google's always had great technology, and last year I did an interview, and we learned a lot about what's going on the chip level with the devices you got. Chrome browser. Always extension. All these security features built into a lot of the edge devices that Google has, so there's definitely a security DNA in there and Google the world. But now, when you start getting into cloud access and permissions yesterday and the Kino, Thomas Kurian and Jennifer Lin said, Hey, let's focus on agility. Not all his access stuff. This is kind of really were identity matters. Kartik talk about what's going on with cloud identity. Where are we? What's the big news? >> Yeah, thank you. So clouded. Entities are solution to manage identity devices and the whole axis management for the clouds. And you must have heard of beyond Corp and the whole zero trust model and access. One thing we know about the cloud if you don't make the access simple and easy and at the same time you don't provide security. You can get it right. So you need security and you need that consumer level simplicity. >> Think it meant explain beyond core. This is important. Just take a minute to refresh for the folks that might not know some of the innovations. They're just start >> awesome. Yeah. So traditional on premises world, the security model was your corporate network. Your trust smaller. Lose The corporate network invested a lot to get to keep the bad people out. You get the right people on and that made ten T applications on premises. Your data was on premises now the Internet being a new network, you work from anywhere. Work is no longer a thing. You work from anywhere. What gets done right? So what is the new access? More look like? That's what people have been struggling with. What Google came up with in two thousand eleven is this model called Beyond Core versus Security Access Model will rely on three things. Who you are is a user authentication the device identity and security question and last but not least, the context off. What are you trying to access in very trying to access from So these things together from how you security and access model And this is all about identity. And this is Bianca. >> And anyone who has a mobile device knows what two factor authentication is. That's when you get a text messages. That's just two factor M. F. A multi factor. Authentication really is where the action is, and you mentioned three of them. There's also other dimensions. This is where you guys are really taking to the next level. Yeah, where are we with FAA and some of the advances around multi factor >> s O. So I think keeping you on the highlight is wear always about customer choice. We meet customers where they are. So customers today have invested in things like one time use passwords and things like that. So we support all of that here in cloud identity. But a technology that we are super excited about the security, Keith. And it's built on the fighter standard. And it's inserted this into your USB slot of that make sense. And we just announced here at next you can now use your android phone as a security key. So this basically means you don't have to enter any codes because all those codes you enter can be fished on way. Have this thing at Google and we talked about it last time. Since we roll our security keys. No Google account, it's >> harder for the hackers. Really Good job, Kim. Let's get the reality. You run a business. You've been involved in a lot of start ups. You've been cloud nated with your company. Now talk about your environment does at the end of the year, the chief security officer, the buck stops with you. You've got to figure this out. How are you dealing with all this? These threats at the same time trying to be innovative with your company. >> So for clarity. So I've been there six years since the very beginning of the company. And we started the company with zero hardware, all cloud and before there was beaten beyond Corp. Where there was it was called de-perimeterization. And that's effectively the posture we took from the very beginning so our users could go anywhere. And our I always say, our corporate network is like your local coffee shop. You know, WiFi like that's the way we view it. We wanted to be just a secure there at the coffee shop, you know, we don't care. Like we always have people assessing us and they're looking at a corporate network saying, You know, where your switches that you're, you know, like where your hardware like, we want to come in and look at all like we don't have anything like, >> there's no force. The scan >> is like way. Just all go to the Starbucks will be the same thing. So that's part of it. And now you know, when we started like way wanted to wrap a lot of our services in the Google, but we had the problem with hip a compliance. So in the early days, Google didn't have six years ago. In our early days, Google didn't have a lot of hip, a compliant services. Now they do. Now we're moving. We're trying to move everything we do almost in the Google. That's not because we just love everything about Google. It's for me. I have assessed Google security are team has assessed their security. We have contracts with them and in health care. It's very hard to take on new vendors and say Hey, is there security? Okay, are their contracts okay? It's like a months long process and then even at the end of the day, you still have another vendor out there that sharing your day, that you're sharing your data with them and it's precarious for me. It just it doubles my threat landscape. When I go from Google toe one more, it's like if I put my data there, >> so you're saying multi vendor the old way. This is actually a problematic situation for you. Both technically and what operate timewise or both are super >> problematic for me in terms of like where we spread our data to like It just means that company every hack against that company is brutal for us, like And you know, the other side of the equation is Google has really good pricing. Comparatively, yes, Today we're talking about Big Query, for example, and they wanted to compare Big Query to some other systems and be crazy. G, c p. And And we looked at the other systems and we couldn't find the pricing online. And, like Google's pricing was right there was completely transparent. Easy to understand. The >> security's been vetted. The security's >> exactly Kim. Can you explain when you said the multi vendor of creates problems for you? Why is this? Is it not so much that one vendor is better? The other assistant? It's different. It's different processes or their discernible differences in the quality of the security. >> There are definitely discernible differences in quality, for sure. Yeah, >> and then add to that different processes. Skill sets. Is that writer? Yes, Double click on that E >> everybody away. There's always some I mean almost every vendor. You know, there's always something that you're not perfectly okay with. On the part of the security is something you don't totally like about it. And the more vendors you add, you have. Okay. This person, they're not too good on their physical security at their data center or they're not too good on their policies. They're not too good on their disaster recovery. Like there's you always give a little bit somewhere. I hate to say it, but it's true. It's like nobody's super >> perfect like it's It's so it's a multiplication effects on the trade offs that you have to make. Yeah, it's necessarily bad, but it's just not the way you want to do it. All right? Okay. >> All the time. So you got to get in an S L A u have meetings. You gotta do something vetting. It's learning curves like on the airport taking your shoes off. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's the >> other part. Beyond the security is also downtime. Like if they suffer downtime. How much is that going to impact our company? >> Karthik, you talked about this This new access mall, this three layer who authentication that is the device trusted in the context. I don't understand how you balance the ratio between sort of false positives versus blocking. I think for authentication and devices pretty clear I can authenticate. You are. I don't trust this device. You're not getting in, but the context is interesting. Is that like a tap on the shoulder with with looking at mail? Hey, be careful. Or how are you balancing that? The context realm? >> Yeah, I think it's all about customer choice. Again, customers have, but they look at their application footprint there, making clear decisions on Hey, this is a parole application is a super sensitive as an example, maybe about based meeting application. Brotherly, not a sensitive. So when they're making decisions about hey, you have a manage device. I will need a manage device in order for you to access the payroll application. But if you have you bring your own device. I'm off perfectly fine if you launch a meeting from that. So those are the levels that people are making decisions on today, and it's super easy to segment and classify your application. >> Talk about the the people that are out there watching might say, You know what? I've been really struggling with identity. I've had, you know, l'd app servers at all this stuff out there, you name it. They've all kinds of access medals over the years, the perimeters now gone. So I got a deal to coffee shop, kind of working experience and multiple devices. All these things are reality. I gotta put a plan together. So the folks that are trying to figure this out, what's that? You guys have both weigh in on on approach to take or certain framework. What's what's? How does someone get the first few steps off to go out towards good cloud identity? >> Sure, I only go first, so I think many ways. That's what we try to simplify it. One solution that we call cloud identity because what people want is I want that model. Seems like a huge mountain in front of me, like how do I figure these things out? I'm getting a lot of these terminologies, so I think the key is to just get started on. We've given them lots of ways. You can take the whole of cloud identity solution back to Kim's point. It can be one license from us, that's it and you're done. It's one unified. You I thinks like that. You can also, if you just want to run state three applications on DCP we have something called identity ofher Proxy. It's very fast. Just load yaps random on disability and experience this beyond >> work Classic enterprise Khun >> Yeah, you run all the applications and dcpd and you can And now they're announcing some things that help you connect back with John Thomas application. That's a great way to get started. >> Karthik painted this picture of Okay, it's no perimeter. You can't just dig a moat. The queen wants to leave the castle. All the security, you know, metaphors that we use. I'm interested in how you're approaching response to these days because you have to make trade us because there are discernible differences with different vendors. Make the assumption that people are going to get in so response becomes increasingly important. What have you changed to respond more quickly? What is Google doing to help? >> Well, yeah, So in a model where we are using, a lot of different vendors were having to like they're not necessarily giving us response and detection. Google. Every service we'd wrap into them automatically gets effectively gets wrapped into our security dashboard. There's a couple of different passwords we can use and weaken. Do reporting. We do it. A tremendous amount of compliance content, compliance controls on our DLP, out of e mail out of Dr and there's detection. There's like it's like we don't have to buy an extra tool for detection for every different type of service we have, it's just built into the Google platform, which is it's It's phenomenal from >> detection baked in, It's just >> baked in. We're not to pay extra for it. In fact, I mean way by the enterprise license because it's completely worth it for us. Um, you know, assumes that came out, the enterprise part of it and all the extra tools. We were just immediately on that because the vault is a big thing for us as well. It's like not only response, but how you dig through your assets toe. Look for evidence of things like, if you have some sort of legal case, you need vault, Tio, you know, make the proper ah, data store for that stuff >> is prioritization to Is it not like, figure it out? Okay, which, which threats to actually go after and step out? And I guess other automation. I mean, I don't know if you're automating your run book and things of that nature. But automation is our friends. Ah, big friend of starting >> on the product measures I What's the roadmap looks like and you share any insight into what your priorities are to go the next level. Aussie Enterprise Focus. For Google Cloud is clear Customs on stage. You guys have got a lot of integration points from Chromebooks G Sweep all the way down through Big Query with Auto ML All the stuff's happening. What's on your plate for road map? What things are you innovating around? >> I mean, it's beyond car vision that we're continuing to roll out. We've just ruled out this bit of a sweet access, for example, but all these conditions come in. Do you want to take that to G et? You're gonna look. We're looking at extending that context framework with all the third party applications that we have even answers Thing called beyond our devices FBI and beyond Corp Alliance, because we know it's not just Google security posture. Customers are made investments and other security companies and you want to make sure all of that interoperate really nicely. So you see a lot more of that coming out >> immigration with other security platform. Certainly, enterprises require that I buy everything on the planet these days to protect themselves >> Like there's another company. Let's say that you're using for securing your devices. That sends a signal thing. I trust this device. It security, passing my checks. You want to make sure that that comes through and >> now we're gonna go. But what's your boss's title? Kim Theo, you report to the CEO. Yeah, Awesome guys. >> Creation. Thank you >> way. We've seen a lot of shifts in where security is usually now pretty much right. Strategic is core for the operations with their own practices. So, guys, thanks for coming on. Thanks for the thing you think of the show so far. What's the What's The takeaway came I'll go to you first. What's your What's the vibe of the >> show? It's a little tough for me because I have one of my senior security engineers here, and he's been going to a lot of the events and he comes to me and just >> look at all >> this stuff that they have like, way were just going over before this. I was like, Oh my God, we want to go back to our r R R office and take it all in right today. You know, if we could So yeah, it's a little tough because >> in the candy store way >> love it because again, it's like it's already paying for it. It's like they're just adding on services that we wanted, that we're gonna pay for it now. It's >> and carted quickly. Just get the last word I know was commenting on our opening this morning around how Google's got all five been falling Google since really the beginning of the company and I know for a fact is a tana big day that secures all spread for the company matter. Just kind of getting it. Yeah, share some inside quickly about what's inside Google. From a security asset standpoint, I p software. >> Absolutely. I mean, security's built from the ground up. We've been seeing that and going back to the candy store analogy. It feels like you've always had this amazing candy, but now there's like a stampede to get it, and it's just built in from the ground up. I love the solution. Focus that you found the keynotes and all the sessions that's happening. >> That's handsome connective tissue like Antos. Maybe the kind of people together. >> Yeah. I don't like >> guys. Thanks for coming on. We appreciate Kartik, Kim. Thanks for coming on. It's accused. Live coverage here on the ground floor were on the floor here. Day two of Google Cloud next here in San Francisco on Jeffrey David Lantz Stevens for more coverage after this short break.

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage, here in San Francisco, the Moscone Center. This is theCUBE's live coverage of Google Next 19, Google Cloud computing conference. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante my cohost. Stu Miniman's here as well, he'll be coming on doing interviews. Our next guests are the founder and CEO of SignalFx, Karthik Rau, and Leonid Ingolnik, EVP of engineering. SignalFx has been a great company, we've been following for many, many years. Pioneer in a lot of the monitoring and serviceability of applications, now prime time, the world has spun to their doorstep. Karthik, congratulations on your success. It's prime time for your business. >> Ya, thank you, John. >> John: Welcome back. >> Great to be on, we're on again. >> I'm glad that you're on because we talked six years ago about some of the trends, we saw early. We saw the containers, Docker movement, and also Kubernetes got massive growth. You had the visibility of what these services are going to look like, cloud web services, kind of the next level. It's kind of here right now. >> Yeah, absolutely, there are two things that we predicted would happen. One was that architectures would get a lot more distributed, elastic, and it would require a more low-latency monitoring system that could do realtime analytics. That was one of the key changes. And then the other thing that we predicted was that developers would get more involved in operations. Which is the whole DevOps movement. And now both of those are very much in the mainstream, so we're really excited to see these trends. >> And looking at the Google keynotes today, obviously we're starting to see the realization of true infrastructure as code, you're starting to see the beginning signals of, look at, we can actually program the infrastructure, and not even have to deal with it. This is key, and you guys have some hardcore news, so let's get that out of the way. You guys got some updates, let's get into the news, and then we can get into the conversation around what you guys are doing in the industry. >> So, today we're bringing three things to the conference, to boost customers and prospects, starting with announcing our support for cloud functions. Cloud functions are great technology that we're seeing adopted by retail. For spiky workloads, things where you have a flash sale and you need to understand what's happening, it may be lasting minutes, where our platform really shows off the best, which is the one second resolution data. Some of our flash sales we see from existing customers don't last a minute, right, so looking at this in a minute resolution of being able to react to this in a machine time rather than human time, is something that our customers now expect. The second thing we are focusing on is Istio, and Istio on GKE specifically. We're seeing service mesh adoption continuing to go both in new, modern application, as well as taking legacy workloads and unlocking the potential of taking those legacy workloads to the cloud. And with Istio, and specifically on Microservices APM, it's not just applicable to Microservices, we see a lot of our customers realizing a lot of value from tracing abilities that a service mesh like Istio provides, an ability to understand you topology and service interactions for free, out of the box, whether it's on-premise with Istio or on the Google environment. And then lastly, so we see customers and prospects adopt Kubernetes, we're also starting to see the next layer above Kubernetes coming in. And, with Knative, getting the support out of the box, whether it's the dashboard, the tracing of the metrics, and that, that's the third announcement we have today. We're fully integrated with Google's offerings, and we're able to monitor and provide you with some actionable content, just in a flick of a switch. >> So support of Knative out of the box. >> Leonid: Out of the box. >> Full SignalFx, with Knative on Google Cloud. >> That is correct. So those three things. >> Karthik, I wonder if you could give us some insight as to what's going on in the marketplace. A multicloud is obviously a tailwind to you, but multicloud, to date, hasn't really been a strategy, it's sort of been an outcome of multi vendor. So, is multicloud increasingly becoming a strategy for your customers, and what specific role are you playing there to facilitate that? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think particularly most of the larger enterprise accounts tend to have a multi vendor strategy, for almost every category, right? Including cloud, which typically is one of their largest spends. Typically what we see is people looking at certain classes or workloads, running on particular clouds, so it may be transactional systems running on AWS. A lot of their more traditional enterprise workloads that were running on Windows servers, potentially running on Azure, we see a lot of interest in data intensive sorts of analytics workloads, potentially running on GCP. And so I think larger companies tend to kind of look at it in terms of, what's the best platform for the use case that they have in mind. But in general, they are looking at multiple cloud vendors. >> So we heard some customers onstage today, talking about their strategy, I think Thomas asked one retail customer, how'd you decide what to put where? And essentially he said, well, it's either going to go into the cloud, lift and shift, we're going to refactor it, reprogram it essentially, or we're going to sunset it. What he didn't say is, we're going to leave some stuff on-prem. Which somewhat surprised me, 'cause of course, especially into financial services you're going to get a lot of stuff left on-prem. So what's your play, with regard to those various strategies, and for the legacy stuff, I know you're cloud native, that's your claim to fame, but can you help those legacy customers as well? Talk about that. >> Yes, absolutely. >> So I think, what we've seen is it's a given now, that organizations are going to move to cloud. It's a question of when, not if. And the cloud form factors are just, are fundamentally different, they're software-defined. Right, a traditional data center, you're monitoring network equipment, storage devices, you're monitoring disks and fan failures on individual servers. When you're running in a cloud, it's a software-defined infrastructure, and it's far more elastic. And so even if you're just lifting and shifting, how you think about monitoring and observing this new cloud infrastructure's fundamentally different. So we're there for the very first step of the journey for an organization, to get the visibility they need into the new architecture, and many times we're also helping them understand the before and after, so how do I compare my performance in my on-premise data center to what it looks like in the cloud? That's step one. Step two is, they start chipping away at those monoliths, or they have new initiatives, that are digital initiatives, that are running in Kubernetes, or container based architectures, microservices based architectures, and that is a fundamentally different world. How you observe and monitor, deploy, not just monitor, the entire supply chain of how you manage these systems is different. So there, they have to look at different solutions, and we're obviously one of the key players, helping them there. >> Leonid, we've been doing theCUBE now for a decade, and I think John, it was a decade ago we said, we made the statement that sampling is dead. So I love your approach, you're not just taking small samples to do your performance monitoring. What's the architecture that enables you to do that, could you talk about that a little bit? >> So I think the most interesting thing with more modern architectures, especially with microservices adoption, is the complexity of how the transaction flows through the system. And then, basically tossing the coin, like we used to be able to do, in previous generations, to capture some traces and get the data you need. Doesn't work anymore, because it's very tough to predict at the beginning of the trace where the transaction's going to go. We're taking a completely different approach on the market. We look at every single transaction, at scales, we have prospects that are talking at us about volumes of giga span in minutes, so one billion spans observed a minute, and with some of the interesting tech we've built, we are able to pick the interesting things. And the interesting things have a couple categories, transactions that occur infrequently, transactions that are maybe above P90, right, the slow ones, because when look about performance and the understanding of how the application performs, you really want to know what's slow, not what's normal. But you also have to capture enough of what's normal. So with some of our tech, we're still able to keep about 1% of transactions, but the right ones, and that's the biggest differentiator with what we put together for the APM product. >> One of the things I want to talk about with you guys is how you relate to some of Google's announcements. The key things, I'm oversimplifying now, but they got a server list kind of announcement, got Cloud Run environment things, the regions, which is global, and then obviously open source commitment. You mentioned functions, you mentioned Knative, obviously open source. You're seeing open source being much more of a production IT capability, so you guys obviously hit that with these solutions, so the question I have for you guys is, how hard is it for you guys to provide that real time monitoring, because Google needs to build an ecosystem, that's what they're not talking about, they didn't really talk about on stage, their ecosystem. So you guys are a natural fit into service mesh, which they showed onstage, Jennifer Lin showed a great demo. So Google has to build an ecosystem, you guys are clearly positioned, through your announcements, that you're deeply integrated with Google. Cisco announced and integration, obviously they have an integration, so integration seems to be the secret sauce, (laughs) with cloud, to play in this ecosystem. Could you guys elaborate on that dynamic, because it kind of changes the old formula for ecosystems? >> Yeah, it's very different, right? In the old days, you had proprietary systems, so the only way you could actually build an integration is, you had to get your product managers in a conference room with the vendor and get visibility in the roadmap, access to everything, and that's why there were, it just took a lot longer to get things done. I think what you're seeing with Google is, they've taken a very standards based approach to everything, right? So, whatever technologies that they're releasing, they're trying to build it as a standard, you can run it on any cloud. Instrumentation is a core part of their philosophy of any technologies that they're releasing, such that, you have a new platform, it has a metrics library, other standards based mechanisms to collect metrics, traces, events. What that does is it makes it easy for the ecosystem to just pick it up, right? Our belief has been, you know, in the old days monitoring was all about proprietary instrumentation and collection. Today it's all about analysis. So the fact that all of this is openly available, in open source or standards based mechanisms, is great for us, it's great for the customers, it's great for the ecosystem. >> That's their one-to-many way of building integration systems. >> And that's why you guys are supporting Knative, as an example. >> Yep. >> That's really kind of supporting the open source ecosystem, ties it to Google cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, we generally support, our customers are running in every single configuration (John laughing) and type of technology you can imagine, so it's our work philosophy to just be everywhere they are, and to support all of the tech that they might be running. But in general we're big supporters of open source, in that, you know, developers are now running most software. That's the world of web services and SaaS. And developers have a preference for understanding the stacks that they're running on, and being able to control it and so that is obviously why open source has just taken off the way it has. >> I think the other dynamic of embracing open-source and standards is it allows us to focus, not on the meetings with product managers and getting an insight into the roadmap, but on getting the standards based integrations deeply configured with some of, for example, content we provide out of the box for use to your own Google versus for use to your own premise or use to anywhere else. And that's where the differentiation and the value for the customer is, not in kind of getting together on the roadmap and figuring out what to build next. >> You guys should move fast to take advantage of the lift that they get. I'd love it if you guys could just take a minute each to explain SignalFx value proposition 'cause you guys I think are perfectly positioned now as this becomes infrastructure as code with cloud. When should a customer call you guys? When are guys needed? When do guys get called in? Where are you winning? Take a minute to explain when and where you guys fit into the customer environment. >> I would say as soon as a customer starts to leverage a cloud infrastructure, whether that's public cloud, private cloud, open shift, to open stack, pivotal cloud foundry, or a public cloud, how you monitor your infrastructure will be fundamentally different, and we can help you with that. And then along your journey, once you've moved to cloud and you start thinking about how do I build modern application architectures, modern web services, devops, then we are necessary. You cannot get to the cloud native stage where you're releasing software every week unless you have a monitoring system like SignalFx. >> Great, just great. I want to also get your pick your brain on some dynamic that I saw in the keynote, it might not be obvious to the folks that are in the mainstream, but Jennifer Lin gave a demo of taking a workload, and porting it over with a small script, no code modifications, running it on a container. >> Dave: The cloud vMotion >> Anthos migrate was the product but basically migrating workload into containers in the Kubernetes engine automatically with no re-writes, she said what you, where you want. So that kind of, I can see what she did there and that's very cool and that's a game changer that's infrastructureless code, but then she moves to a conversation around services meshes. 'Cause once you get these things on a containerized, inside the Kubernetes engine, you're kind of enabled for using service meshes. This is like the Holy Grail of microservices. This is a big growth area. Can you guys explain what this means, what does this service mesh mean, 'cause once these workloads start to be containerized you're going to see much more migration to this new model. Where does service mesh kick in and why is it important and what should people pay attention to? >> Well I would say one of the fundamental challenges of microservices is what people are calling more and more, observability, right. Because you have so many systems, like a single application or a single transaction, what is an application anymore? A single transaction can flow through dozens, hundreds, of individual microservices. So, and you're changing your applications all the time. So figuring out when you've introduced a problem very quickly is a big challenge. And so one of the big benefits service mesh brings is it provides automatic instrumentation of your applications and requests in a way that makes it very out of the box to get visibility across your entire environment. So that is step one, getting that visibility. The next step is then you obviously need to analyze this corpus of data and its massive, and that's where a solution like SignalFx comes in we can collect all this data and help you really T-signal for noise. Then the last step really is how do you take action on that data, how do you automate responses? Whether it's rolling back a canary release, or shifting a load balancing strategy so that if there's a bad node you stop sending traffic to that. All of that can be automated. And so what service mesh is doing is it's providing the sub street to allow you to really provide that closed loop automation, that infrastructure is code, you know that's the movement that everyone is really focusing on right now. It's a key technology to enable that. >> Tell me about the observability trends, because this has been a hot venture funded area. We hear trace, dynamic tracing, these are techniques, there's a variety of different mechanisms for observability. How does Kubernetes, and now service mesh's impact observability, where is the puck going to be, if you're going to skate to where the puck is, what's the state of the situation? >> Well I think what it does is it makes instrumentation a lot easier. So typically a challenge when you're running a old Java application from 10 years ago, getting visibility into the app, it's a monolith. You to get the full visibility and the full call stack, that's harder to collect. When you're in a microservices world with service mesh, you're getting that visibility automatically. And what becomes more important is understanding the east/west latencies across all these different microservices. So because instrumentation is so much easier with all these new technologies, what it means for monitoring is it really shifts the focus to who can make the most sense of this data, who can provide assistance to the operators to really help them pinpoint when there is a problem, what is the potential cause, and to triage it very quickly. So again, the whole value proposition is shifted to the analysis. >> So Leonid given that, what are your engineering priorities, maybe share a little road map if you could? >> Sure, so if you think about what we just talked about, adoption of Kubernetes, or service meshes, the challenges that those environments bring both the femorality of the environments on which you now deploy compared to what most of the operators and application developers are used to, as well as the constant motion in the system, right. Kupernetes will move the workload several times an hour and the amount of data those systems tend to generate becomes fairly difficult to cope not just to a monitoring system, but to a human, right? So how can you take about what Karthik talked about all this noise and get it into an actionable intelligence across tens of millions times series an hour possibly in the middle of the night, how do you get the operator to the root cause very quickly? And what kind of technologies do we need to have as a vendor, and that's where we spend a lot of time thinking about, how do we provide actionable insight for those highly femoral environments that are getting even more femoral? >> One of the themes that's here, and already we're seeing it pop out of Google Next, and we've seen it in the other cloud shows we've gone to is, complexity is increasing, and the business model that seems to work well is taking complexity and making things simple. >> Mhm >> Right >> Whether it's extraction layers or other techniques, how does a customer, who's got all these new suppliers, new dynamics, new shift in the marketplace, new business models, how does a customer deploy IT, deploy cloud, and move the complexity to a simplicity model? This is a hard challenge. >> Well, I think that's one of the fundamental mental model shifts that an organization needs to make. Complexity was your enemy in the old days. Right, because you were releasing software once a year, twice a year and so you don't want it to be complex. But if your goal is speed and innovation, you're going to have to accept some complexity to get that speed and innovation. You just have to decide where is that complexity acceptable and how do you change your processes and your tooling to minimize the impact of that complexity. So I think I would disagree with that sentiment because I think organizations have to start thinking about things differently if they really want to move quickly. >> So embrace complexity. >> You have to embrace complexity and you have to think about what are the mitigating factors I need to take in my organization structure, my processes, my tooling, to compensate for the additional complexity I'm creating, but still release software as quickly as I used to. >> I would add, I think in a lot of ways you're shifting the complexity from infrastructure management more up the stack. >> That's, ya. >> In many ways IT is getting more complex, to your point Karthik. >> Ya, I mean all of these extractions make perhaps the underlying infrastructure less complex to manage but you're absolutely right Dave, the applications will become more complex when you move to microservices and you've got 50 pizza box teams working on a bunch of microservices, there's an organizational dynamic as much as there's a tech dynamic, right. How do you get these 50 teams to communicate with one another if there's a issue, an incident. >> And the data pathways, the data pipelines, the journey of that data, is much, much more complex. >> Ya absolutely. >> Final question, as the developers and operators come together, that seems to be a big trend. Developers want frictionless environment, programmable internet, they're going to be spitting up these services and then the operators have to run it. Those worlds are coming together. What's your thoughts on the operations side and developers coming together? >> I think they're two peas in a pod. They're two parts, they're two necessary parts. I think you will see more and more automation move up the stack. I think the place to start is really in the infrastructure layer and it will make the lives of operators of these cloud environments simpler. And then I think that automation will move up the stack as well over time. >> What's the most important story coming out of Google Next, if you can just kind of read the tea leaves, get a sense of what's going on here? 2019, whole new year, whole new game changing. What are your guys' thoughts on what's kind of going on in the cloud business this year? What' going on at Google Next? What's the big story? >> Well I think from my perspective it's very clear they're focused a lot on multi cloud, cloud agnostic and where the right ones run anywhere and run on Google. That seems to be a big push. And then the other is they're just behind on go to market and they seem to be focusing quite a bit on investing in all of the other elements, non-technology elements, to make organizations successful. >> Leonid, on the tech side, what do you see as the big in story here? >> I think Google was always found on the tech and they're continuing to deepen it. I think more interesting for me the story is about the go to market and embracing the complexity of the enterprise. >> Right >> And recognizing that not every application that will come to Google Cloud will be architected in a modern way. The thousands upon thousands of applications that have to lift and shift still and surviving some of the announcements around the service mesh are great enablers for those customers to start embracing the cloud technology. >> Tech geeks love service mesh, I'm a big fan. Guys, thanks for sharing the insight. Give a quick plug for what's going on for SignalFx. What's going on in the company? What are you guys looking to do? Are you hiring, are you expanding, what's going on? >> Ya we're in rapid growth here as a company. We're really excited about microservices APM product that we introduced late last year and what that does is it brings distributed trace analytics to our core monitoring platform. So what that allows you to do is get bottoms up visibility into each individual component through our metrics system, but also a transaction oriented view through our micro services APM product. Bringing the two together, super excited about the level of sophistication and analytics that it's going to bring our customers. >> What's the head count? What's the head count now, roughly? >> We're about 250 people right now. >> 250 okay, and you've raised over nine figures, I think? >> Over a hundred million dollars yeah. >> That's great, congratulations. >> So Karthik as a founder, what's it like to have the vision early and seeing it, and staying the course? And you've stayed on the right wave. >> Yeah. >> And now the wave's gotten bigger, what's it like to be the founder and be where you are now? >> It's terrifying at first because you don't know if the markets are going to move in the direction you need them to, but it's very gratifying when that actually happens and we're very fortunate that the world is moving very squarely into cloud based architectures, and not just cloud but all of these modern run times that are exactly what we predicted the world would look like for the last six years now. >> And you had a great team, engineering team was solid, you've got great chops. Any advice for entrepreneurs out there who are now getting into this world, maybe younger entrepreneurs coming out, building some applications? What's your advice to other founders that are... >> I could spend hours on that topic (laughter) >> I think >> Dave: Ship early and often >> You just have to continue to have faith and conviction in your beliefs and stick it out because there are lots of twists and turns, especially in the early days if you're betting ahead of the curve, you need to be patient and continue to have belief in yourself and your ideas. >> Well congratulations the world has right spun to your doorstep, congratulations with SignalFx. Thanks for coming on theCube. We're in San Francisco for theCube's coverage. Day one of three days. I'm John with Dave Vellante. Stay with us for more live coverage after this short break. (light electronic music)

>> fly from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Google Cloud next nineteen Tio by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Run. Welcome to the Cube here, live in San Francisco on Mosconi South were on the floor at Google. Next twenty nineteen. Hashtag Google Next nineteen. I'm John for my co host this week for three days and wall to wall coverage of Google's cloud conference is with Dave. Alonso Has too many men. Guys day one of three days of wall to wall coverage. We got Thomas Curry in the new CEO on the job for ten weeks. Took the realm from Diane Green. Thirty five thousand attendees. It's packed. It's definitely a developer crowd. It feels a lot like a WS, not a corporate show like Microsoft or IBM or others or Oracle. It's really more about developers. We just heard the Kino. Google's making some moves. The new CEO is gonna put on a show. He saw two customers you see in the positioning. Soon DARPA Kai, the CEO of Google, came out really kind of. Ah, interesting keynote Feels like Thomas's that's gonna shake that Oracle off, but he's guns blaring. Some new announcements. Guys, let's do a round upon the keynote. >> Yeah. So, John, as you said, a great energy here that this place is bustling sitting here where we are, we could see everybody is going through the Expo Hall. As you said. Is Google serious about this? This whole cloud activity? Absolutely. There's no better way than to have your CEO up. There we go, The Amazon show. You don't see Jeff Bezos there into the Microsoft shows? You know, you don't usually see you know their CEO. There you have the Cloud Group does the cloud thing, but absolutely. Cloud is a critical piece of what Google is doing. And it's interesting because I actually didn't feel as geeky and his developer focused as I would expect to see at a Google show. Maybe they've heard that feedback for years that, you know, Google makes great stuff, but they're too smart in there, too geeky When you go to the Amazon show, they're announcing all of the different, you know, puting storage pieces and everybody's hooting and hollering. Here it was a little bit more business. It was high level. They had all these partners out on stage and customers out on stage. Many of them, you know, you talk about retail and health care and all these other ones where you say, Okay, Amazons, a major competitor there. So, you know, can Google stake their claim as to how they're going to move up from the number three position and gain more market share? You know, as they fit into the multi cloud, which we know we're going to spend a lot of time on, wears their position in this cloud space today. >> What your thoughts. >> Well, first of all, there's a big show. I mean, it's we're here at IBM thick in February. This feels like a much, much larger event, Number one Stew said. It's really much more developer heavy, I think. John, there's no question people don't question Googles Global Cloud Presence. Soon Dar talked about two hundred countries, ninety cloud regions fifty eight plus two new data centers. So no question there. But there are questions as to whether or not Google could move beyond search and maps and Gmail and really be a big cloud player for Enterprise Cloud that really is to the elephant in the room. Can Google innovate and attractive CEOs? They showed a number of customers, not nearly, of course, as many as what Amazon or even Microsoft would show. They're talking about ecosystem. To me, that ecosystem slide. It's got a cord truthful this year to really show some progress. But you've got new leadership as we talked about last year, John and love to get your thoughts on this. Google's playing the long game. They've got the best tech and you know they've got great data. Great. Aye, aye. I want to take >> into the new rebranding of the Google Cloud platform, which is now called Antos, which is a Greek word for flour. We kind of had visibility into This would kind of start coming. But before we get into that, I want to just kind of point out something that we've reported on looking angle, some that we've been saying on Twitter on DH about Diane Greene. It's been reported that she was fired from Google for missing on red hat. All these rumors, but interesting Thomas Koreans first words, a CEO on stage. It was a direct shout out to Diane Greene. I think this validates our reporting and our analysis that Diane Green absolutely helped hire curry and work with the boy workers Sundar And essentially, because she was the architect of rebuilding Google Clouds Enterprise chops the team there that she recruited we've been following and covering. Diane Green built that foundation. She passed the torch. Thomas Curry. This was not a Diane Green firing, so I think I think Thomas Carrion nice gesture on Diane Green kind of sets the table and validates and preserves her legacy as the rebuilder re architect of Google Cloud. >> Pretty interesting. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think this where there's some smoke, there's fire that don't think Diana Corning court fired. I think you know that she was under a lot of pressure. She was here for seven years. I think they probably felt like Okay, now it's time to really bring somebody in. Who wants to take this to the next level? And I'll die unnecessarily had the stomach for that >> John Really great points there. But it does talk about you know what is the culture of Google? You know, the elephant The room is what is Google? Google makes you know most of their money on advertising. That's not what Google Cloud is. It doesn't fit into the additional model. You know, Google's culture is not geared for the enterprise. As you know that the critique on Google for years has been We make really great stuff and you need to be Google E. And you need to do things the way we do Thomas Koreans out there. We need to meet customers where they are today. That's very much what we hear in the Enterprise. That that's what you hear. You know when you talk about Amazon or Microsoft, they're listening to their customers. They're meeting them at their business applications there, helping them build new environment. So, you know, will Google be a little less googly on DH? Therefore, you know, meet customers and help work them, and that leads to the multi clouding the anthros discussed. >> We heard a lot about that today. I mean, John, you've pointed out many, many times that Cooper Netease is the linchpin to Google strategy. It's really you know, that was the kind of like a Hail Mary relative Tae Ws and that's what we heard today. Multi cloud, multi cloud, multi cloud, where is with a W s. And certainly to a lesser extent, Oracle. It's Unit Cloud Multi Cloud is more expensive is what they tell us. Multi cloud is less secure. A multi cloud is more complex. Google's messaging is exactly the opposite of >> that. So, Dave, just to poke it that a little bit, is great to see Sanjay *** Inn up on stage with VM wear. But where we last cvm were to cloud show. It's an Amazon. They've got a deep partnership here. Cooper Netease is not a differentiator for Google. Everybody's doing it. Even Amazon is being, you know, forced to be involved in it. Cisco was up on stage. This guy's got a deep partnership with Amazon and a ks. So you know, Cooper Netease is not a magic layers. Good job, Ada said on the Cube. Q. Khan. It is something that you know Google, that management layer and how I live in a multi cloud environment. Yes, Google might be further along with multi cloud messaging, then say Amazon is, But you know, Amazons, the leader in this space and everybody that has multiple clouds, Amazons, one of them, even the keynote >> This morning aboard Air Force right eight, I was forced into Cooper days you're not CNW s run demos that show, you know, a target of the Google clouded the Microsoft. You saw that today from Google >> while we see how the Amazon demos with our oracle. But that's the result. Let's let's hold off on the partisan saying, Let's go through the Kino So the Diane Green comment also AOL came out. Who runs VP of Engineer. He's the architect. One. This Antos product. Last year, they announced on G. C. P s basically a hybrid solution G a general availability of Antos, which has security built in out of the box. Multi cloud security integrated for continues integration, confused development, CCD pipeline ing very key news and that was really interesting. This is such a their new platform that they've rebranded called Antos. This is a way for them to essentially start posturing from just hybrid to multi cloud. This is the shift of of Google. They want to be the on premise cloud solution and on any cloud, your thoughts. >> You know, the demo said it all. The ability to take V m movement two containers and move them anywhere right once and move anywhere and that, I think, is is the key differentiator right now. Relative to certainly eight of us. Lesser extent Microsoft, IBM right there with red hat. That's to me The interesting angle >> Here. Look, Google has a strong history with Ken Containers. If you if you scroll back to the early days of doctor twenty fourteen, twenty, fifty, Google's out there as to how many you know, it just so many containers that they're building up and tearing down. However you go to the Microsoft. So you go to the Amazon show. We're starting to talk a lot more about server list. We're gonna have the product lead for surveillance on today. I'm excited to dig into that because on a little bit concerned that Google is so deep in the containers and how you Burnett eases, they're looking for, like a native to connect the pieces, but that they are a little bit behind in some of the next generation architectures built on journalists for death. >> I want to make a point here if you're not the leader in cloud which, you know in Enterprise Cloud, which Google is not, you know, IBM is not or, you know, Oracle is not okay, fine, but if you don't have a cloud like Cisco or Dell or VM, where you have to go after multi cloud. Amazon's not in a rush to go after multi cloud. There's no reason down the road. Amazon can't go after that opportunity. To the extent that it's a real tam, it's There's a long way to go. Talk about early innings were like having started the game of Outpost >> hasn't even been spect out. Yes, sir, there has not been relieved. So we're seeing what Amazon's got knowing they are the clouds. So they're the incumbent. Interesting enough on Jennifer Lin. You mention the demo. Jennifer Lin Cube alumni. We gonna interview her later. She introduced on those migrate Kind of reminds me of some of the best shows we have the migration tools and that migrates work clothes from PM wears into containers running in containers. As you mentioned. A. This is an end and no modified co changes. That's a big deal, >> John. Exactly on Twitter, people are going. Is this the next emotion? You know, those of us who've been in the industry while remember how powerful that was able to seamlessly migrate? You know, the EMS and containers at, You know, I shouldn't have to think about Colin building it where it lives. That was the promise of has for all those years and absolutely things like uber Netease what Google's doing, chipping away at that. They're partnering with Cisco, there partner with pivotal parting with lots of companies so that that portability of code isa lot of >> Master Jack is a cloud of emotion. I mean, we know what the motion did in the Enterprise. >> To me, that's the star. The keynote is actually the rebranding associate positioning thing. But the star of the show is the Jennifer Lin demo, because if anthems migrate actually works, that's going to tell. Sign to me on how fast Google can take territory now. What's interesting also with the announcements, was, I want to get you guys thoughts on this because we cover ecosystems, we cover how Cloud and Enterprise have been pardoning over the years. Enterprise is not that easy. Google has found out the hard way Microsoft is done really well. They've installed base. Google had stand this up from the beginning again. Diane Greene did a great job, but now it's hard. It's a hard nut to crack. So you see Cisco on stage. Cisco has huge enterprise. Cloud the em Where comes on stage? David Gettler Gettler, the VP of engineering of Cisco, one of their top executives on stage. And he has Sanjay *** and keep alumni came on. Sanjay had more time. Francisco. So you have two companies who kind of compete? NSX. We have suffered a fine Cisco both on stage. Cisco, absolutely integrating into We covered on silicon angle dot com just posted it live where Cisco is actually laying down their container platform and integrating directly into Google's container platform to offer a program ability End to end. I think that's something that didn't get teased out on the keynotes doing, because this allows for Google to quickly move into the enterprise and offer true program ability of infrastructure. This is the nirvana of infrastructure is code. This is what Dev Ops has been waiting for. Still your thoughts on this because this could be a game changer. Hydro, what's an A C I. This could put pressure on VM, where with the containers running in platform and the Cisco relationship your thoughts. >> So John Cisco has a broad portfolio. When you talk about multi cloud, it's not just the networking components, it's the eyes, absolutely apiece. But that multi cloud management, uh, is a layer that Cisco has, you know, been adding two and working on for a lot of years, and they've got very key partnerships. So making sure, you know, seeing right seeing David vehicular onstage here. Proof, Cisco, lot of enterprise customers him where, Of course, six hundred thousand customers. They're So Google wants to get into these accounts. You look at, you know, Microsoft strength of their enterprise agreements that they have. So how will Google get into some of these big accounts? Get into the procurement, get into the environment? And there's lots of different methods and partnerships We said our credit >> David vehicular undersold the opportunity here. I mean, when it comes to he did at working Inter Cloud. Sisko is in the poll possession position to basically say we got the best network, the highest performance networks, the most secure networks, and we're in a position to connect all these clouds. And to me, that didn't come out today. So when you think about multi cloud, each of these companies is coming at it from a position of strength. Cisco. Very clearly dominant networking VM wear in virtual ization and I think that came through. And Sanjay *** ins, you know, keynote. I think again Gettler undersold it, but it's a great opportunity for Cisco and Google. >> Well, I think Google has a huge opportunity. It Cisco because if they have a go to market joint sales together, that could really catapult Google sails again. If I get really was kind of copy, we're we're Cisco. But Cisco look, a bm was on stage with them. I thought that was going to be a Hail Mary for for Sisko to kind of have bring that back. But then watching Sanjay Putin come on saying, Hey, we're okay, it's going to be a V m World And Pat Kelsey has been on the record saying, Coo Burnett eases the dial tone of the Internet stew. This is an interesting matchup between Cisco and BM, where your thoughts >> Yeah, so so right. There's so many pieces here, a cz to where their play way. No, there's competitive competition and, you know, partnerships. In a lot of these environments, Google actually has a long history of partnering. You know, I can't even think how many years ago, the Google and GM or Partnership and Cisco. If I can't actually, Dave, there's There's something I know you've got a strong viewpoint on. You know, Thomas Kurian left Oracle and it was before he had this job. Every he says, you know, is T. K going to come in here and bring, you know, oracles, you know, sales methodology into Google. You know, What does he bring? What's his skill set on? You know >> what exact community? I think it's the opposite, right? I think that's why you left Oracle because he didn't want every database to run in the Oracle, Cloudy realised is a huge opportunity out there. I think the messaging that I heard today is again it's completely I saw something on Twitter like, Oh, this is just like organ. It's nothing like Oracle. It's the It's the polar opposite opposite of what Oracle is doing. >> I think I think curry and can really define his career. This could be a nice swan song for him. As he takes Google with Diane Greene did builds it out, does the right deals if he can build on ecosystem and bring the tech chops in with a clear go to market. He's not going to hire the salespeople and the SCS fast enough. In my opinion, that's gonna be a really slow boat. Teo promised land. He's got to do some deals. He's gotta put Some Corp Devin Place has gotta make some acquisitions will be very in the sin. DARPA Kai, the CEO, said. We are investing heavily in cloud. If I'm Amazon, I'm worried about Google. I think they are dark horse. They have a lot of they have a clean sheet of paper. Microsoft, although has legacy install base. Google's got, I think, a lot more powder, if you will. Dave, >> what One little sign? I agree without John, I think you're absolutely right. The clean sheet of paper and deep pockets, you know, and the long game in the great tech. Uh, you have a son should be worried about Google. One little side note, it's still you. And I talked about this. Did you hear? Uh uh, Thomas asked Sanjay Putin about Dell, Dell Technologies, and Sunday is an executive. Dell was talking about the whole Del Technologies portfolio. I thought it was a very interesting nuance that we had previously seen from VM wear when they were owned by himself. >> Dave, you know, we see Delon Veum where are almost the same company these days that they're working together? But John, as you said, I actually like that. You know, we didn't have some big announcement today on an acquisition. Thomas Kurian says. He's got a big pocket book. He's going to be inquisitive, and it'LL be interesting to see, do they? By some company that has a big enterprise sales force. It can't just be old legacy sales trying to go into the cloud market. That won't work, but absolutely the lot of opportunities for them to go out. They didn't get get, huh? They didn't get red hat. So who will? Google Page? You >> guys are right on man. Sales Force is still a big question mark, And how can they hire that fast? That's a >> And again, he's only been on the job for ten weeks. I think is going to get his sea legs. I think it's him. He's going to come in. He's gonna ingratiating with culture. It'Ll be a quick decision. I think Google culture will accept or reject Thomas Curry and based upon his first year in operations, he's going to get into the team, and I think the Wall Street Journal kind of comment on that. Will he bring that Oracle? I thought that was kind of not a fair assessment, but I think he's got the engineering chops toe hang with Google. He kind of gets the enterprise mark one hundred percent been there, done that. So I think he's got a good shot. I think you could make the right moves. Of course we're here making the moves on the Cube here live for day, one of three days of wall to wall coverage. I'm sorry, David. Lock These two minute men here in Google, next in Mosconi in San Francisco Live will be back with more coverage after this short break.

>> Live from Seattle, Washington. It's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018, brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem of partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE. We are at CubeCon 2018 in Seattle, CloudNativeCon as well. We've been to every KubeCon and CloudNativeCon since inception. I'm John Furrier. My co-host Stu Miniman want to break down the three days of wall to wall coverage of the rise of kubernetes and the ecosystem and the industry consolidation and standardization around kubernetes for multi cloud, for hybrid cloud. We're here breaking down day one keynote, kicking everything off. Stu, it's fun to come here and watch words like expansion, Moore's law, expansive growth, doubling down. The attendance for KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, hockey stick growth chart on Twitter. 1200, 4000, 8000 up into the right. Global phenomenon, the team at CNC at KubeCon, huge presence in China this year, total expansion all to save, hold the line on the cloud tsunami that is Amazon's web services. >> Yeah. >> This is the massive cloud game going on, your thoughts. >> Yeah, John first of all. You have to start out just expansive growth and you can just feel the energy here. We're in the middle of the show floor. You were here two years ago in Seattle when I think they said, they were, was it 16? There weren't that many sponsors here. There's 180 booths at this show. The joke in the keynote this morning was if you want to replace your entire T-shirt wardrobe that's what you can do here. Everybody's got fun stickers. It's a good crowd. Those alpha geeks, this is where they are. >> And Stu, you're sporting a new T-shirt. >> Yeah, John so I want to thank our friends. >> Make sure they can see that. >> Our friends here, Women Who Go. They do the GoLang languages, the gopher is what they're doing here. So love that, if you're at the show, come by. Get our stickers. If you look up Women Who Go on thread list. They actually have an artist shop. The CNCF has their logo up there. We have their logo. There is blockchain. There's docker, there's all these and you can buy the shirts and the money for buying these shirts actually goes to bring women and underserved people to events like this. We also love John when they're supporting this. The CNCF actually, I think it was a 130 or so people that they brought to this conference through charitable donations from many of the sponsors. >> And that's one of the highlights I want to get to later is the mission driven and the social responsibility, scholarships, the money that's being donated to fund diversity inclusion in all walks of life to make CloudNative, but Stu lets get back to the core thing that's going on here at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon. A couple years ago, I said, we said on theCUBE that the Tsunami, that is Amazon Web Service is just going to just hit ashore and just wipe out the industry in IT as much as it can go unless someone builds a seawall. Builds a wall to stop that momentum. Kubernetes and KubeCon specifically has had that moment. This is the industry saying look it. Cloud is awesome. It's full validation of cloud but there is more than just AWS. This is about multi cloud, hybrid cloud, and a lot of forces are at play competitively to make sure that Amazon doesn't run the table. >> Yeah, John, it's good to do a little bit of compare and contrast here because if you go back to OpenStack, it was OpenStack is the hail Mary against Amazon, and it's going to help you get off your VMware licenses. Well that's not what kubernetes is, if you look both VMware required Heptio, and Amazon have a big presence at this show. Amazon, their hands were forced to be able to actually work with kubernetes. I remember I read an article that said, there were about 14 different ways you can run kubernetes on Amazon before they supported it. Now they fully support it. They're going even deeper, AWS Fargate. I know you spend a lot of time at re:Invent digging into some of this environment here so this isn't, portability is a piece of kubernetes. Kubernetes won the orchestrator battles out there. It is the de facto standard out there, and we're seeing how this stack can really be built up on top of it. The thing that I've been keying in on coming into this year is how Serverless plays into it. You heard a big push for Knative on the keynote which is Google, who of course brought us to kubernetes. IBM, SAP, Red Hat all there but I don't see Microsoft or AWS yet embracing how we can match up Serverless and kubernetes today with the Knative. >> I think if I'm Amazon or Microsoft, I might be a little bit afraid of this movement because when, we went through the multi vendor days. You had multi vendoring decades ago. Now, multi cloud is the multi vendoring story, and what's interesting is that choice becomes the key word in all this and a real enterprise that's out there. They got Cisco routers, they got tons of stuff that's actually running their business, powering their business. They need to integrate that so this idea that one cloud fits all certainly has been validated. I think to me the winner takes most but what this community is doing Stu around kubernetes is galvanizing around a new stack configuration with kubernetes at the center of it, and that will disintermediate services at AWS and at Microsoft. Microsoft stock price has put that company in a higher value position than Google or Apple. What has Microsoft actually done to make them go from a $26 stock price to $100 and change? What did they actually invent? What did they actually do? What did they disrupt? Was it just go in a cloud? Is it Office 365? This begs the question is it just the business model shift so certainly there is business in the cloud and it's showing here at KubeCon. >> Yeah John, there was a major cultural shift inside of Microsoft I was really excited. One of the shows I got to go to this year was Microsoft Ignite, and in many ways it's interesting. That show has been around for decades and in many ways, it was the Windows admin just getting the latest and greatest. From my standpoint, I think it was Microsoft fully embracing the move to SaaS. They're pushing everybody to Office 365. They are aggressively moving to expand their cloud that that hybrid environment Microsoft has the applications, and they're not waiting for customers to just leave them or hold onto whatever revenue stream. They're switching to that writable model. They're switching to SaaS model. They're pushing really hard on Azure. They're here in force. They're really embracing developers, all the .NET folks, they were-- >> They're moving the ball inch by inch down the fields slowly to that cadence and that in totality with social responsibility and commencement of the cloud. I think has been, there's not one thing that's happened. It's just a total transformation for Microsoft, and the results and the valuation are off the charts. Google, the same way. Diane Greene has, I think was unfairly categorized by the press in terms of her exit. She's been wanting to retire for years Stu. She has turned Google around. You look at Google where they are right now verses where they were two years ago. Two years ago, they were slinging cloud the Google way. Now they're saying hey, you know what. We know the enterprise. Jennifer Lin, Sarah Novotny, Dawn Chen. All those people over there are leading the way real enterprise just with tech and they got some big moves to make, and they're doing it. So Diane Greene did not fail. So that was one thing that's interesting in the ecosystem and in Amazon as you know just kick it out. So given all that Stu, how does that relate to this? >> Yeah, let's bring it back here. So first of all, kubernetes. It was interesting the keynote this morning. We spent a lot of time talking about things that built on top of and around what's happening with kubernetes. Talking about things like how Helm is moving forward. Onvoy, Prometheus all of these projects. There are a couple dozen incubating projects and a few of them are graduating up to be full flanked projects. We talked about the ecosystem and how many partners are here. There's around 80 service providers and about 80 platforms that have kubernetes baked in. I want to point out an interesting distinction. Some people said, it's like oh they're 75 or 80 different distributions of it. I don't think that anybody thinks that they're going to make a differentiated platform that people are going to buy what I'm doing because I have the best kubernetes. Really what the CNCF has done a good job is saying you're fully supported. You're inoperable, you meet the guidelines to say, I am kubernetes and therefore it's baked into what we're doing. So why do we have so many of them? It's well, there's a lot of clouds out there. There's service providers and even the infrastructure players are making sure that they're in there. Everybody from Intel, all the way through. Servers and storage and networking all making sure that they're doing they're pieces to make sure that they work in the kubernetes environment. >> So Stu, I got to ask you a question on the keynote. You were in the front row. I was watching online here. Kind of distraction, sold out in the keynote. I didn't get the whole gist of it. How much of the keynote was vendor or project expansion verses end user traction? Can you give some color on that? >> Yeah, so a lot of it was the projects. What's really good is there's not a lot of vendors. Sure there is here's the logo slide. Let's everybody give a big round of applause and thank you. But when they put the projects up there, many of these projects came out of a group but some of that is well Lyft. Lyft created one of these projects and who's involved in that. One of the big news announcement was FCD is being donated to the CNCS, and well that came out of CoreOS to solve a really needed problem that they had to make sure that when you're rolling upgrades that you don't reboot the entire cluster all at once, and then your application isn't able to be there. So why are they donating? Well it has reached the maturity level, and while CoreOS is inside of Red Hat, there is a broad adoption. Lots of people contributing and it just makes sense to hand it over. Red Hat, everything they've done always is 100% open source, so them making sure that they have a good relationship with the foundation and who should have the governs of that. Red Hat has a strong track record on that. I know we'll be talking a lot-- >> All right so Stu get your perspective on the big players. We saw Google up on Saint-operno. We saw VMware. Cisco is here. I saw some of the Cisco executives here earlier. You got Red Hat, you got the big dogs here, Microsoft. What's the trend on the big players and then what's the trend on the hot startups either companies and or new wave in here? You mentioned Knative. So big companies, what's the general trend there and then what are you seeing on the interests around startups. >> So John, last year when I talked to users at this show. It was most of the people that were using kubernetes were building their own stack. The exception to that was oh if I'm a Red Hat customer, open shift makes sense for me. I can built it into what my model is. Azure had just come out with their AKS support. AWS had just been figuring out their ECS verse EKS and what they had. We're going to do before Fargate was down there. Today, what I hear is maturation of the platform so I expect Amazon and Microsoft to win more, and just I'm on those platforms. I'm using it, oh I want to use their kubernetes service that's going to make sense. So the rich get richer in this a lot way. Red Hat is going to do well, IBM is a strong player here, and of course sometime in 2019, we expect that acquisition of Red Hat to close. From a start up standpoint, there are so many niches that can be filled here. The question is how many of them are going to end up as acquisitions inside some of these big ones. How much of them can monetize because as I said with kubernetes John, I don't see a company that's going to say oh, I'm going to be the kubernetes company and monetize. Mirantis for a year or so ago was pivoting to be from the OpenStack company to the kubernetes company. Heptio was an early player and they had a quick exit. They're bringing strong skill set to the VMware team to help VMware accelerate their CloudNative activities. So in many ways John, this is an evolution more than a revolution so I do not see a drastic change in the landscape. >> Well evolution is cloud computing. We know that's going to yield the edge of the network and then on premise is complete conversions. This evolution is interesting Stu because this is an open source community vibe. You have now two other things going on around it. You have the classic open source community event, and you've got on the other spectrum, normal app developers that just want to right code. Then you got this IT dynamic. So what's happening and that will be interesting and we'll be watching this is how does the CNCF KubeCon, CloudNativeCon involve, and you start to cross pollinate app developers who just want our infrastructure as code. IT people who want to take over a new IT and then pure open source community players. This has now become a melting pot. Is that an opportunity or a challenge for the CNCF and the Linux Foundation? >> The danger is that this just gets overruned by vendors. It becomes another OpenStack that people get disenfranchised through what they're doing so absolutely there's a threat here. To their credit, I think the CNCF has done a really good job of managing things. They're smart is how they're doing. They're community focused. I have to say in the keynote John, if we noticed the diversity was phenomenal. Most of the speakers were women. They were one from end users. There are a couple of dozen end users that are now members of the CNCF. >> I think they're all CUBE alumnis too. >> Absolutely, and John, we've been here since the early days been tracking the whole thing. >> It's fun to watch. My opinion on the whole the melting pot of those personas is I think the CNCF and the Linux Foundation has a winning formula by owning and nurturing the open source community side of it. I think that's where the data is going to be, that's where the action is and I think as a downstream benefit, the IT market and developers will win. I would not try to get enamored by the money, and the vendor participation hype. I don't think they are. I'm just saying I would advise them to stay the course. Make this the open source community show of course, that's what we believe and of course we're CubeNative this week. We are here at the CloudNative and now we're CubeNative. This is the first day of three days of coverage. I'm John Furrier and Stu Miniman breaking down the analysis, talking to the smartest people we can find, and also talk about some of the key players that are sponsoring the show. We'll be back with more coverage after this short break. (uptempo techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Google Cloud Next 2018, brought to you by Google Cloud, and it's Ecosystem Partners. >> Hello everyone, and welcome back theCUBE live coverage, here in San Francisco, the Moscone South. I'm John Furrier with the SiliconANGLE on theCube, with my cohost Dave Vellante, for next three days. Day one, wrap up of Google Next here. Google Cloud's premiere event. This is a different Google. It's a world changing event, in my opinion, of Google. Dave, I want to analyze day one as we put it in the books. Let's analyze and let's look at it, and critique and observe the moves that Google's making vis-à-vis the competition. And Diane Greene, who's on theCUBE earlier, great guest. Kind of in her comfort zone here on theCUBE because she talks, she's an engineer, she's super smart. She thinks free thoughts but she really has a good chessboard view of the landscape. My big walk away today is that she's got full command of what she wants to do, but she's in an uncomfortable position that I think she's not used to. And that is at VMworld, at VMware, she didn't have competition. First mover, changes the market. Certainly, winning at all fronts when VMware was starting. And they morphed over and then you know the history of Vmware: sold to EMC and then now the rest is history. But they really changed the category. They created a category. And were very successful in IT with virtual machines. She's got competition in Cloud. She's playing from behind. She's got the big guns. She's going to bring out the howitzers, you know? I mean she's got Spanner, BigQuery, all the Scale, Kubernetes. Which the internal name is Borg which has been running on the Google infrastructure. Provisioning services on all their applications with billions and billions of users. If she can translate that, that's key. So that's one observation. And the second one is that Google is taking a data centric view. Their competitive advantage is dealing with data. And if you look at everything that they're doing from TensorFlow for AI and all the themes here. They are positioning Google as with a place to bring your data. Okay, that is clear to me as a stake in the ground. With the large scale technical infrastructure they're going to roll out with SREs. Those two things to me are the front and center major power moves that they're making. The rest wrapping around it is Kubernetes, Istio, a service oriented architecture managing services not products and providing large scale value to their customers that don't want to be Google. They want to be like Google in the benefits of Scale, which comes in automation. And I think I head room for Google Cloud is IT operations. So that's kind of like my take. I think day one, the people we've had on from Google sharp as nails, no enterprise tech. Jennifer Lin, Deepti, Diane Greene. The list goes on and on. What's your take? >> Well so, first of all with what's goin' on here and Diane Greene, the game she's playing now. Completely different obviously than VMware. Where it was all about cutting costs. Vmware, when you think about it, sold for $635 million to EMC way back when. So, it was just a little scratch compared to what we're talkin' about now. She didn't have the resources. The IT business, you remember Nick Carr's famous piece on HBR 'Does IT Matter?' That was the sentiment back then. IT, waste of time, undifferentiated. Just cut costs. Cut, cut, cut. Perfect for Vmware. The game they're playing now is totally different. As you said they were late to the enterprise. Ironically, late to the "enterprise cloud" >> They got competition >> They got competition. Obviously the two big ones Microsoft and, of course, AWS. But so what might take away here is: the differentiation. So they're not panicking. They're obviously playing the open source card. Kubernetes, TensorFlow, etc. Giving back to the community. Data, they're definitely going to lead in AI and machine intelligence. No question about it. So they're going to play that card. The database, we had the folks from Cloud Spanner on today. Amazing technology. Where as you think about it, they're talkin' about a transaction-oriented database. We heard a customer today, talking about we replaced Oracle. Right? We got rid of Oracle, now-- >> When was the last time you heard that? Not many times. >> It's not often. No, and they're only $120 million company. But to her point was it's game changing for us. It's a 10-X value proposition. And we're getting the same quality that we're getting out of our Oracle databases. They're leading with apps on Google Cloud. Twitter is there. Spotify. They obviously have a lot of history. So that's part of it, part to focus. We on SiliconANGLE.com, there's a great article by Mark Albertson. He talked about the-- he compared the partner Ecosystem. Google's only about 13,000 partners. Amazon 100,000. Azure 70,000. So a long way to go there. Serverless, this is they're catching up on serverless. But they're still behind. Kind of still in Beta, right? &But serverless, John, I'd love your take on this. Can be as profound as virtualization was. Last to developer love. They've got juice with developers. And then the technology. Massive scale. We heard things about Spanner, the relational semantics. BigQuery, Kubernetes, TensorFlow. They have this automate or die culture. You talked about this in your article. That's a bottoms-up engineering culture. Much different than the traditional enterprise top-down "Go take that hill! "You're going to get shot at but take that hill by midnight" >> It's true. Well I mean, first of all, I think developers are in charge. I think one of the things that's happening is that it's clear is that every company, whether you're a start up or large enterprise, has to come to grips with if they're going to be a software company. And that's easy to say "Oh, that's easy. You just hire some software developers" No, it's not that easy. One, there's software developers coming out. But the way IT was built and the way people were buying IT, it's just not compatible with what software developers want to do. They want to work in a company that's actually building software. They don't want to be servicing infrastructure. So, saying that everyone's going to be a software company is one thing. That's true. And so that's the challenge. And I think Google has an opportunity. Just like Oedipus has been dominating with service-oriented approach managing services. By creating building blocks that create large Scale that allow people to write software easily. And I think that's the keyword. How do I make things common interface. You asked Diane Greene about common primitives. They're going to do the foundational work needed. It might be slower. But at a core primitive, they'll do that work. Because it'll make everything a faster. This is a different mind shift. So again, you also asked one of the guests, I forget who it was, IT moves at a very slow speeds. It's like a caravan-- >> You said glacial >> But yeah, well that used to be. But they have to move faster. So the challenge is: how do you blend the speed of technology, specifically on how modern software is being written, when you have Cloud Scale opportunities? Because this is not a cost cutting environment. People want to press the gas, not the brake. So you have a flywheel developing in technology, where if you are right on a business model observation, where you can create differentiation for a business, this is now the Cloud's customers. You know, you're a bank, you're a financial institution, you're manufacturing, you're a media company. If you can see an opportunity to create a competitive advantage, the Cloud is going to get you there really fast. So, I'm not too hung up on who has the better serverless. I look at it like a car. I want to drive the car. I always want to make sure the engine doesn't fall out or tires don't break. But so you got to look at it, this is a whole 'nother world. If you're not in the Cloud, you're basically on horse and buggy. So yeah, you're not going to have to buy hay. You don't have to deal with horses and clean up all the horse crap on the street. I mean all of that goes away. So IT, buying IT, is like horse and buggy. Cloud is like the sports car. And the question is 'Do I need air-conditioning?' 'Do I need power windows?' This is a whole new view. And people just want to get the job done. So this is about business. Future work. Making money. >> So-- >> And technology is going to facilitate that. So I think the Cloud game is going to get different very fast. >> Well I want to pick up on a couple things you said. Software, every company's becoming a software company. Take Andreessen, said 'Software is eating the world' If software's eating the world, data is eating software. So you've got to become a data company, as well as, a software company. And data has to be at the core of your business in order to compete. And data is not at the core of most company's businesses. So how do they close that gap? >> Yeah >> You've talked about the innovation sandwich. Cloud, data, and AI are sort of the cocktail that's going to drive innovation in the future. So if data is not at the core of your company, how are you going to close that AI gap? Well the way you're going to close is you're going to buy AI from companies like Google and Amazon and others. So that's one point. >> Yeah, and if you don't have an innovation sandwich, if you don't have the data, it's a wish sandwich. You wish you had some meat. >> You wish you had it right (Laughing) Wish I had some meat. You know the other thing is, you mentioned Diane Greene in her keynotes said "We provide consistency "with a common core set of primitives" And I asked her about that because it's really different than what Amazon does. So Amazon, if you think about Amazon data pipeline, and we know because were customers. We use DynamoDB, we use S3, we use all these different services in the data pipeline. Well, each of those has a different API. And you got to learn that world. What Google's doing, they're just simplifying that with a common set of primitives. Now, Diane mentioned, she said there's a trade off. It takes us longer to get to market if-- >> Yeah, but the problem is, here's the problem. Multicloud is a real dynamic. So even though they have a common set of primitives, if you go to Azure or AWS you still have different primitives over there. So the world of Multicloud isn't as simple as saying 'moving workloads' yet. So although you're startin' to see good signs within Google to say 'Oh, that's on prim, that's in the Cloud' 'Okay that's hybrid' within Google. The question is when I don't have to hire an IT staff to manage my deployments on Azure or my deployments on AWS. That's a whole different world. You still got to learn skill sets on those other-- >> That's true >> On other Clouds >> But as your pipeline, as your data pipeline grows and gets more and more complex, you've got to have skill sets that grow. And that's fine. But then it's really hard to predict where I should put data sometimes and what. Until you get the bill at the end of the month and you go "Oh I should've put that in S3 instead of Aurora" Or whatever it is. And so Google is trying to simplify that and solve that problem. Just a different philosophy. Stu Miniman asked Andy Jassy about this, and his answer on theCUBE was 'Look we want to have fine grain control over those primitives in case the market changes. We can make the change and it doesn't affect all the other APIs we have' So that was the trade off that they made. Number one. Number two is that we can get to market faster. And Diane admitted it slows us down but it simplifies things. Different philosophy. Which comes back to differentiation. If you're going to win in the enterprise you have to believe. I get the sense that these guys believe. >> Well and I think there's a belief but as an architectural decision, Amazon and Google are completely different animals. If you look at Amazon and you look at some of the decisions they make. Their client base is significantly larger. They've been in business longer. The sets of services they have dwarf Google. Google is like on the bar chart Andy Jassy puts up, it's like here, and then everyone else is down here, and Google's down here. >> Yeah and the customer references, I mean, it's just off the charts >> So Google is doing, they're picking their spots to compete in. But they're doing it in a very smart engineering way. They can bring out the big guns. And this is what I would do. I love this strategy. You got hardened large scale technology that's been used internally and you're not trying to peddle that to customers. You're tweaking it and making it consumable. Bigtable, BigQuery, Spanner. This is tech. Kubernetes. This is Google essentially being smart. Consuming the tech is not necessarily shoving it down someone's throat. Amazon, on the other hand, has more of a composability side. And some people will use some services on Amazon and not others. I wouldn't judge that right now. It's too early to tell. But these are philosophy decisions. We'll see how the bet pans out. That's a little bit longer term. >> I want to ask you about the Cisco deal. It seems like a match made in heaven. And I want to talk specifically about some of the enterprise guys, particularly Dell, Cisco, and HPE. So you got Dell, with VMware, in bed with Amazon in a big way. We were just down at DC last month, we heard all about that. And we're going to hear more about it this fall at re:Invent. Cisco today does a deal with Google. Perfect match, right? Cisco needs a cloud, Google needs an enterprise partner. Boom. Where's that leave HP? HP's got no cloud. All right, and are they trying to align? I guess Azure, right? >> Google's ascension-- >> Is that where they go? They fall to Azure? >> Well that's what habit is. That's the relationship. The Wintel. >> Right >> But back up with HP for a second. The ascension of Google Cloud into the upper echelon of players will hurt a few people. One of them's obviously Oracle, right? And they've mentioned Oracle and the Cloud Spanner thing. So I think Oracle will be flat-footed by, if Google Cloud continues the ascension. HPE has to rethink, and they kind of look bad on this, because they should be partnering with Google Cloud because they have no Cloud themselves. And the same with Dell. If I'm Dell and HP, I got to get out of the ITOps decimation that's coming. Because IT operations and the manageability piece is going to absolutely be decimated in the next five years. If you're in the ITOps business or IT management, ITOM, ITIL, it's going to get crushed. It's going to get absolutely decimated. It's going to get vaporized. The value is going to be shifted to another part of the stack. And if you're not looking at that if your HPE, you could essentially get flat-footed and get crushed. So HP's got to be thinking differently. But what Google and Amazon have, in my opinion, and you could even stretch and say Alibaba if you want a gateway to China, is that what the Wintel relationship of Windows and Intel back in the 80s and 90s that created massive innovations So I see a similar dynamic going on now, where the Cloud players, we call them Cloud native, Amazon and Google for instance, are creating that new dynamic. I didn't mention Microsoft because I don't consider them yet in the formal position to be truly enabling the kind of value that Google and Amazon will value because-- >> Really? Why not? >> Because of the tech. Well and I think Amazon is more, I mean Microsoft is more of a compatibility mode (Talking over each Other) I run Microsoft. I've got a single server. I've got Office. Azure's got good enough, I'm not really looking for 10-X improvement. So I think a lot of Microsoft's success is just holding the line. And the growth and the stock has been a function of the operating model of Cloud. And we'll see what they do at their show. But I think Microsoft has got to up their game a bit. Now they're not mailing it in. They're doing a good job. But I just think that Google and Amazon are stronger Cloud native players straight up on paper, right? And if you look up their capability. So the HPEs and the Ecosystems have to figure out who's the new partner that's going to make the market. And rising tide will float all boats. So to me, if I am at HP I'm thinking to myself "Okay, I got to manage services. "I better get out in front of the next wave "or I'm driftwood" >> Well Oracle is an interesting case too. You mentioned Oracle. And somebody said to me today 'Oracle they're really hurting' And I'm like most companies would love to be hurting that badly but-- >> Oracles not hurting >> Their strategy of same-same but it's the same Oracle stack brought into the Cloud. They're sending a message to the customers 'Look you don't have to go to another Cloud. 'We've got you covered. We're investing in R&D', which they do by the way. But it was really interesting to hear from the Cloud Spanner customer today that they got a 10-X value, 10-X reduction in costs, and a 10-X capability of scaling relative to Oracle that was powerful to hear that. >> There's no doubt in my mind. Oracle's not hurting. Oracle's got thousands and thousands of customers that do hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. And categories that people would love to have. The question on Oracle is the price pressure is an innovator's dilemma because there's no doubt that Oracle could just snap a few fingers and replicate the kind of deliverables that people are offering. The question is can they get the premium that they're used to getting. One. Number two, if everyone's a software company, are they truly delivering the value that's expected. To be a software company, to be competitive, not to make the lights run-- >> To enable >> To enable competitive-- (Talking over each other) Competitive advantage at a level, that's to me, going to be the real test of how Cloud morphs. And I question that you got to be agile and have a real top line revenue numbers where using technology at a cost benefit ratio that drives value-- >> But with Oracle-- >> If Oracle can get there then that's what we'll see >> The reason why they'll continue to win is because they move at the speed of the CIO. The CIO, and they'll say all the right things: AI-infused, block chain, and machine learning, and all that stuff. And the CIOs will eat it up because it's a safe bet. >> Well, I want to get your thoughts because I talked about this a couple years ago. Last year we started harping on it. We got it more into theCUBE conversation around Cloud being horizontally scalable yet at the top of the stack you've got vertical differentiation. That's great for data. Diane Greene in her key notes said that the vertical focus with engineering resources tied to it it's a key part of their strategy. Highlighted healthcare was their first vertical. Talked about National Institute of Health deal-- >> Retail >> NGOs, financial service, manufacturing, transportation, gaming and media. You got Fortnight on there, a customer in both Clouds. Start ups and retail. >> Yeah he had the target cities >> Vertical strategy is kind of an old enterprise play book TABE. Is that a viable one? Because now with the kind of data, if you got the data sandwich, maybe specialism and verticals can Scale. Your thoughts? >> I'll tell you why it is. I'll tell you why it's viable. Because of digital. So for years, these vertical stacks have been hardened. And the expertise and the business process and the knowledge within that vertical industry, retail, transportation, financial services, etc., has been hardened. But with digital, you're seeing it all over the place. Amazon getting into content. Apple getting into content. Amazon getting into groceries. Google getting into healthcare. So digital allows you to not only disrupt horizontally at the technology layer, but also vertically within industries. I think it's a very powerful disruption agenda. >> Analytics seems to be the killer app. That's the theme here: data. Maybe take it to the next step. That's where the specialism is. That's where the value's created. Why not have vertical specialty? >> No and >> Makes a lot of sense >> And it's a different spin. It's not the traditional-- >> Stack >> Sort of hire a bunch of people with that knowledge in that stack. No, it's really innovate and change the game and change the business model. I love it. >> That was a great surprise to me. Dave, great kicking off day one here this morning. Ending day one here with this wrap up. We got three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Go to siliconANGLE.com. We've got a great Cloud special Rob Hof, veteran chief of the team. Mark Albertson, and the rest of the crew, put some great stories together. Go to theCUBE.net and check out the video coverage there. That's where we're going to be live. And of course WIKIBAN.com for the analyst coverage from Peter Burris and his team. Check that out. Of course theCUBE here. Day one. Thanks for watching. See you tomorrow