(upbeat music) >> Hello, welcome everyone to "theCUBE" presentation of the AWS Startup Showcase, this is Season Two, Episode Four of the ongoing series covering exciting startups from the AWS ecosystem. Here to talk about Cyber Security. I'm your host John Furrier here joined by two great "CUBE" alumnus, Liz Rice who's the chief open source officer at Isovalent, and Mark Nunnikhoven who's the distinguished cloud strategist at Lacework. Folks, thanks for joining me today. >> Hi. Pleasure. >> You're in the U.K. Mark, welcome back to the U.S, I know you were overseas as well. Thanks for joining in this panel to talk about set the table for the Cybersecurity Showcase. You guys are experts out in the field. Liz we've had many conversations with the rise of open source, and all the innovations coming from out in the open source community. Mark, we've been going and covering the events, looking at all the announcements we're kind of on this next generation security conversation. It's kind of a do over in progress, happening every time we talk security in the cloud, is what people are are talking about. Amazon Web Services had reinforced, which was more of a positive vibe of, Hey, we're all on it together. Let's participate, share information. And they talk about incidents, not breaches. And then, you got Black Hat just happened, and they're like, everyone's getting hacked. It's really interesting as we report that. So, this is a new market that we're in. People are starting to think differently, but still have to solve the same problems. How do you guys see the security in the cloud era unfolding? >> Well, I guess it's always going to be an arms race. Isn't it? Everything that we do to defend cloud workloads, it becomes a new target for the bad guys, so this is never going to end. We're never going to reach a point where everything is completely safe. But I think there's been a lot of really interesting innovations in the last year or two. There's been a ton of work looking into the security of the supply chain. There's been a ton of new tooling that takes advantage of technology that I'm really involved with and very excited about called eBPF. There's been a continuation of this new generation of tooling that can help us observe when security issues are happening, and also prevent malicious activities. >> And it's on to of open source activity. Mark, scale is a big factor now, it's becoming a competitive advantage on one hand. APIs have made the cloud great. Now, you've got APIs being hacked. So, all the goodness of cloud has been great, but now we've got next level scale, it's hard to keep up with everything. And so, you start to see new ways of doing things. What's your take? >> Yeah, it is. And everything that's old is new again. And so, as you start to see data and business workloads move into new areas, you're going to see a cyber crime and security activity move with them. And I love, Liz calling out eBPF and open source efforts because what we've really seen to contrast that sort of positive and negative attitude, is that as more people come to the security table, as more developers, as more executives are aware, and the accessibility of these great open source tools, we're seeing that shift in approach of like, Hey, we know we need to find a balance, so let's figure out where we can have a nice security outcome and still meet our business needs, as opposed to the more, let's say to be polite, traditional security view that you see at some other events where it's like, it's this way or no way. And so, I love to see that positivity and that collaboration happening. >> You know, Liz, this brings up a good point. We were talking at our Super Cloud Event we had here when we were discussing the future of how cloud's emerging. One of the conversations that Adrian Cockcroft brought up, who's now retired from AWS, former with Netflix. Adrian being open source fan as well. He was pointing out that every CIO or CISO will buy an abstraction layer. They love the dream. And vendors sell the dream, so to speak. But the reality it's not a lot of uptake because it's complex, And there's a lot of non-standard things per vendor. Now, we're in an era where people are looking for some standardization, some clean, safe ways to deploy. So, what's the message to CSOs, and CIOs, and CXOs out there around eBPF, things like that, that are emerging? Because it's almost top down, was the old way, now as bottoms up with open source, you're seeing the shift. I mean, it's complete flipping the script of how companies are buying? >> Yeah. I mean, we've seen with the whole cloud native movement, how people are rather than having like ETF standards, we have more of a defacto collaborative, kind of standardization process going on. So, that things like Kubernetes become the defacto standard that we're all using. And then, that's helping enterprises be able to run their workloads in different clouds, potentially in their own data centers as well. We see things like EKS anywhere, which is allowing people to run their workloads in their data center in exactly the same way as they're running it in AWS. That sort of leveling of the playing field, if you like, can help enterprises apply the same tooling, and that's going to always help with security if you can have a consistent approach wherever you are running your workload. >> Well, Liz's take a minute to explain eBPF. The Berkeley packet filtering technology, people know from Trace Dumps and whatnot. It's kind of been around for a while, but what is it specifically? Can you take a minute to explain eBPF, and what does that mean for the customer? >> Yeah. So, you mentioned the packet filtering acronym. And honestly, these days, I tell people to just forget that, because it means so much more for. What eBPF allows you to do now, is to run custom programs inside the kernel. So, we can use that to change the way that the kernel behaves. And because the kernel has visibility over every process that's running across a machine, a virtual machine or a bare metal machine, having security tooling and observability tooling that's written using eBPF and sitting inside the kernel. It has this great perspective and ability to observe and secure what's happening across that entire machine. This is like a step change in the capabilities really of security tooling. And it means we don't have to rely on things like kernel modules, which traditionally people have been quite worried about with good reason. eBPF is- >> From a vulnerability standpoint, you mean, right? From a reliability. >> From a vulnerability standpoint, but even just from the point of view that kernel modules, if they have bugs in them, a bug in the kernel will bring the machine to a halt. And one of the things that's different with eBPF, is eBPF programs go through a verification process that ensures that they're safe to run that, but happens dynamically and ensures that the program cannot crash, will definitely run to completion. All the memory access is safe. It gives us this very sort of reassuring platform to use for building these kernel-based tools. >> And what's the bottom line for the customer and the benefit to the organization? >> I think the bottom line is this new generation of really powerful tools that are very high performance. That have this perspective across the whole set of workloads on a machine. That don't need to rely on things like a CCAR model, which can add to a lot of complexity that was perfectly rational choice for a lot of security tools and observability tools. But if you can use an abstraction that lives in the kernel, things are much more efficient and much easier to deploy. So, I think that's really what that enterprise is gaining, simpler to deploy, easier to manage, lower overhead set of tools. >> That's the dream they want. That's what they want. Mark, this is whether the trade offs that comes up. We were talking about the supercloud, and all kinds. Even at AWS, you're going to have supercloud, but you got super hackers as well. As innovation happens on one side, the hackers are innovating on the other. And you start to see a lot of advances in the lower level, AWS with their Silicon and strategies are continuing to happen and be stronger, faster, cheaper, better down the lower levels at the network lay. All these things are innovating, but this is where the hackers are going too, right? So, it's a double edge sword? >> Yeah, and it always will be. And that's the challenge of technology, is sort of the advancement for one, is an advancement for all. But I think, while Liz hit the technical aspects of the eBPF spot on, what I'm seeing with enterprises, and in general with the market movement, is all of those technical advantages are increasing the confidence in some of this security tooling. So, the long sort of anecdote or warning in security has always been things like intrusion prevention systems where they will look at network traffic and drop things they think bad. Well, for decades, people have always deployed them in detect-only mode. And that's always a horrible conversation to have with the board saying, "Well, I had this tool in place that could have stopped the attack, but I wasn't really confident that it was stable enough to turn on. So, it just warned me that it had happened after the fact." And with the stability and the performance that we're seeing out of things based on technologies like eBPF, we're seeing that confidence increase. So, people are not only deploying this new level of tooling, but they're confident that it's actually providing the security it promised. And that's giving, not necessarily a leg up, but at least that level of parody with that push forward that we're seeing, similar on the attack side. Because attackers are always advancing as well. And I think that confidence and that reliability on the tooling, can't be underestimated because that's really what's pushing things forward for security outcomes. >> Well, one of the things I want get your both perspective on real quick. And you kind of segue into this next set of conversations, is with DevOps success, Dev and Ops, it's kind of done, right? We're all happy. We're seeing DevOps being so now DevSecOps. So, CSOs were like kind of old school. Buy a bunch of tools, we have a vendor. And with cloud native, Liz, you mentioned this earlier, accelerating the developers are even driving the standards more and more. So, shifting left is a security paradigm. So, tooling, Mark, you're on top of this too, it's tooling versus how do I organize my team? What are the processes? How do I keep the CICD pipeline going, higher velocity? How can I keep my app developers programming faster? And as Adrian Cockcroft said, they don't really care about locking, they want to go faster. It's the ops teams that have to deal with everything. So, and now security teams have to deal with the speed and velocity. So, you're seeing a new kind of step function, ratchet game where ops and security teams who are living DevOps, are still having to serve the devs, and the devs need more help here. So, how do you guys see that dynamic in security? Because this is clearly the shift left's, cloud native trend impacting the companies. 'Cause now it's not just shifting left for developers, it has a ripple effect into the organization and the security posture. >> We see a lot of organizations who now have what they would call a platform team. Which is something similar to maybe what would've been an ops team and a security team, where really their role is to provide that platform that developers can use. So, they can concentrate on the business function that they don't have to really think about the underlying infrastructure. Ideally, they're using whatever common definition for their applications. And then, they just roll it out to a cloud somewhere, and they don't have to think about where that's operating. And then, that platform team may have remit that covers, not just the compute, but also the networking, the common set of tooling that allows people to debug their applications, as well as securing them. >> Mark, this is a big discussion because one, I love the team, process collaboration. But where's the team? We've got a skills gap going on too, right? So, in all this, there's a lot of action happening. What's your take on this dynamic of tooling versus process collaboration for security success? >> Yeah, it's tough. And I think what we're starting to see, and you called it out spot on, is that the developers are all about dynamic change and rapid change, and operations, and security tend to like stability, and considered change in advance. And the business needs that needle to be threaded. And what we're seeing is sort of, with these new technologies, and with the ideas of finally moving past multicloud, into, as you guys call supercloud, which I absolutely love is a term. Let's get the advantage of all these things. What we're seeing, is people have a higher demand for the outputs from their tooling, and to find that balance of the process. I think it's acknowledged now that you're not going to have complete security. We've gotten past that, it's not a yes or no binary thing. It's, let's find that balance in risk. So, if we are deploying tooling, whether that's open source, or commercial, or something we built ourselves, what is the output? And who is best to take action on that output? And sometimes that's going to be the developers, because maybe they can just fix their architecture so that it doesn't have a particular issue. Sometimes that's going to be those platform teams saying like, "Hey, this is what we're going to apply for everybody, so that's a baseline standard." But the good news, is that those discussions are happening. And I think people are realizing that it's not a one size-fits-all. 10 years ago was sort of like, "Hey, we've got a blueprint and everyone does this." That doesn't work. And I think that being out in the open, really helps deliver these better outcomes. And because it isn't simple, it's always going to be an ongoing discussion. 'Cause what we decide today, isn't going to be the same thing in a week from now when we're sprint ahead, and we've made a whole bunch of changes on the platform and in our code. >> I think the cultural change is real. And I think this is hard for security because you got so much current action happening that's really important to the business. That's hard to just kind of do a reset without having any collateral damage. So, you kind of got to mitigate and manage all the current situation, and then try to build a blueprint for the future and transform into a kind of the next level. And it kind of reminds me of, I'm dating myself. But back in the days, you had open source was new. And the common enemy was proprietary, non-innovative old guard, kind of mainframe mini computer kind of proprietary analysis, proprietary everything. Here, there is no enemy. The clouds are doing great, right? They're leaning in open source is at all time high and not stopping, it's it's now standard. So, open is not a rebel. It's not the rebel anymore, it's the standard. So, you have the innovation happening in open source, Liz, and now you have large scale cloud. And this is a cultural shift, right? How people are buying, evaluating product, and implementing solutions. And I when I say new, I mean like new within the decades or a couple decades. And it's not like open source is not been around. But like we're seeing new things emerge that are pretty super cool in the sense that you have projects defining standards, new things are emerging. So, the CIO decision making process on how to structure teams and how to tackle security is changing. Why IT department? I mean, just have a security department and a Dev team. >> I think the fact that we are using so much more open source software is a big part of this cultural shift where there are still a huge ecosystem of vendors involved in security tools and observability tools. And Mark and I both represent vendors in those spaces. But the rise of open source tools, means that you can start with something pretty powerful that you can grow with. As you are experimenting with the security tooling that works for you, you don't have to pay a giant sum to get a sort of black box. You can actually understand the open source elements of the tooling that you are going to use. And then build on that and get the enterprise features when you need those. And I think that cultural change makes it much easier for people to work security in from the get go, and really, do that shift left that we've been talking about for the last few years. >> And I think one of the things to your point, and not only can you figure out what's in the open source code, and then build on top of it, you can also leave it too. You can go to something better, faster. So, the switching costs are a lot lower than a lock in from a vendor, where you do all the big POCs and the pilots. And, Mark, this is changing the game. I mean, I would just be bold enough to say, IT is going to be irrelevant in the sense of, if you got DevOps and it works, and you got security teams, do you really need IT 'cause the DevOps is the IT? So, if everyone goes to the cloud operations, what does IT even mean? >> Yeah, and it's a very valid point. And I think what we're seeing, is where IT is still being successful, especially in large companies, is sort of the economy of scale. If you have enough of the small teams doing the same thing, it makes sense to maybe take one tool and scale it up because you've got 20 teams that are using it. So, instead of having 20 teams run it, you get one team to run it. On the economic side, you can negotiate one contract if it's a purchase tool. There is still a place for it, but I think what we're seeing and in a very positive way, is that smaller works better when it comes to this. Because really what the cloud has done and what open source continues to do, is reduce the barrier to entry. So, a team of 10 people can build something that it took a 1000 people, a decade ago. And that's wonderful. And that opens up all these new possibilities. We can work faster. But we do need to rethink it at reinforce from AWS. They had a great track about how they're approaching it from people side of things with their security champion's idea. And it's exactly about this, is embedding high end security talent in the teams who are building it. So, that changes the central role, and the central people get called in for big things like an incident response, right? Or a massive auditor reviews. But the day-to-day work is being done in context. And I think that's the real key, is they've got the context to make smarter security decisions, just like the developers and the operational work is better done by the people who are actually working on the thing, as opposed to somebody else. Because that centralized thing, it's just communication overhead most of the time. >> Yeah. I love chatting with you guys because here's are so much experts on the field. To put my positive hat on around IT, remember the old argument of, "Oh, automation's, technology's going to kill the bank teller." There's actually more tellers now than ever before. So, the ATM machine didn't kill that. So, I think IT will probably reform from a human resource perspective. And I think this is kind of where the CSO conversation comes full circle, Liz and Mark, because, okay, let's assume that this continues the trajectory to open source, DevOps, cloud scale, hybrid. It's a refactoring of personnel. So, you're going to have DevOps driving everything. So, now the IT team becomes a team. So, most CSOs we talk to are CXOs, is how do I deploy my teams? How do I structure things, my investment in people, and machines and software in a way that I get my return? At the end of the day, that's what they live for, and do it securely. So, this is the CISO's kind of thought process. How do you guys react to that? What's the message to CISOs? 'Cause they have a lot of companies to look at here. And in the marketplace, they got to spend some money, they got to get a return, they got to reconfigure. What's your advice? Liz, what's your take? Then we'll go to Mark. >> That's a really great question. I think cloud skills, cloud engineering skills, cloud security skills have never been more highly valued. And I think investing in training people to understand cloud that there are tons of really great resources out there to help ramp people up on these skills. The CNCF, AWS, there's tons of organizations who have really great courses and exams, and things that people can do to really level up their skills, which is fantastic right from a grassroots level, through to the most widely deployed global enterprise. I think we're seeing a lot of people are very excited, develop these skills. >> Mark, what's your take for the CSO, the CXO out there? They're scratching their head, they're going, "Okay, I need to invest. DevOps is happening. I see the open source, I'm now got to change over. Yeah, I lift and shift some stuff, now I got to refactor my business or I'm dead." What's your advice? >> I think the key is longer term thinking. So, I think where people fell down previously, was, okay, I've got money, I can buy tools, roll 'em out. Every tool you roll out, has not just an economic cost, but a people cost. As Liz said, those people with those skills are in high demand. And so, you want to make sure that you're getting the most value out of your people, but your tooling. So, as you're investing in your people, you will need to roll out tools. But they're not the answer. The answer is the people to get the value out of the tools. So, hold your tools to a higher standard, whether that's commercial, open source, or something from the CSP, to make sure that you're getting actionable insights and value out of them that your people can actually use to move forward. And it's that balance between the two. But I love the fact that we're finally rotating back to focus more on the people. Because really, at the end of the day, that's what's going to make it all work. >> Yeah. The hybrid work, people processes. The key, the supercloud brings up the conversation of where we're starting to see maturation into OPEX models where CapEx is a gift from the clouds. But it's not the end of bilk. Companies are still responsible for their own security. At the end of the day, you can't lean on AWS or Azure. They have infrastructure and software, but at the end of the day, every company has to maintain their own. Certainly, with hybrid and edge coming, it's here. So, this whole concept of IT, CXO, CIO, CSO, CSO, I mean, this is hotter than ever in terms of like real change. What's your reaction to that? >> I was just reading this morning that the cost of ensuring against data breaches is getting dramatically more expensive. So, organizations are going to have to take steps to implement security. You can't just sort of throw money at the problem, you're going to actually have to throw people and technology at the problem, and take security really seriously. There is this whole ecosystem of companies and folks who are really excited about security and here to help. There's a lot of people interested in having that conversation to help those CSOs secure their deployments. >> Mark, your reaction? >> Yeah. I think, anything that causes us to question what we're doing is always a positive thing. And I think everything you brought up really comes down to remembering that no matter what, and no matter where, your data is always your data. And so, you have some level of responsibility, and that just changes depending on what system you're using. And I think that's really shifting, especially in the CSO or the CSO mindset, to go back to the basics where it used to be information security and not just cyber security. So, whether that information and that data is sitting on my desk physically, in a system in our data center, or in the cloud somewhere. Looking holistically, and that's why we could keep coming back to people. That's what it's all about. And when you step back there, you start to realize there's a lot more trade offs. There's a lot more levers that you can work on, to deliver the outcome you want, to find that balance that works for you. 'Cause at the end of the day, security is just all about making sure that whatever you built and the systems you're working with, do what you want them to do, and only what you want them to do. >> Well, Liz and Mark, thank you so much for your expert perspective. You're in the trenches, and really appreciate your time and contributing with "theCUBE," and being part of our Showcase. For the last couple of minutes, let's dig into some of the things you're working on. I know network policies around Kubernetes, Liz, EKS anywhere has been fabulous with Lambda and Serverless, you seeing some cool things go on there. Mark, you're at Lacework, very successful company. And looking at a large scale observability, signaling and management, all kinds of cool things around native cloud services and microservices. Liz, give us an update. What's going on over there at Isovalent? >> Yeah. So, Isovalent is the company behind Cilium Networking Project. Its best known as a Kubernetes networking plugin. But we've seen huge amount of adoption of cilium, it's really skyrocketed since we became an incubating project in the CNCF. And now, we are extending to using eBPF to not just do networking, but incredibly in depth observability and security observability have a new sub project called Tetragon, that gives you this amazing ability to see out of policy behavior. And again, because it's using eBPF, we've got the perspective of everything that's happening across the whole machine. So, I'm really excited about the innovations that are happening here. >> Well, they're lucky to have you. You've been a great contributor to the community. We've been following your career for very, very long time. And thanks for everything that you do, really appreciate it. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Mark, Lacework, we we've following you guys. What are you up to these days? You know, we see you're on Twitter, you're very prolific. You're also live tweeting all the events, and with us as well. What's going on over there at Lacework? And what's going on in your world? >> Yeah. Lacework, we're still focusing on the customer, helping deliver good outcomes across cloud when it comes to security. Really looking at their environments and helping them understand, from their data that they're generating off their systems, and from the cloud usage as to what's actually happening. And that pairs directly into the work that I'm doing, the community looking at just security as a practice. So, a lot of that pulling people out of the technology, and looking at the process and saying, "Hey, we have this tech for a reason." So, that people understand what they need in place from a skill set, to take advantage of the great work that folks like Liz and the community are doing. 'Cause we've got these great tools, they're outputting all this great insights. You need to be able to take actions on top of that. So, it's always exciting. More people come into security with a security mindset, love it. >> Well, thanks so much for this great conversation. Every board should watch this video, every CSO, CIO, CSO. Great conversation, thanks for unpacking and making something very difficult, clear to understand. Thanks for your time. >> Pleasure. >> Thank you. >> Okay, this is the AWS Startup Showcase, Season Two, Episode Four of the ongoing series covering the exciting startups from the AWS ecosystem. We're talking about cybersecurity, this segment. Every quarter episode, we do a segment around a category and we go deep, we feature some companies, and talk to the best people in the industry to help you understand that. I'm John Furrier your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>Hi, everyone. Welcome to the cubes presentation of the AWS startup showcase the theme. This episode is data as code, and this is season two, episode two of the ongoing series covering exciting startups from the ecosystem in cloud and the future of data analytics. I'm your host, John furry. You're getting great featured panel here with AWS heroes, Lynn blankets, the CEO of Lindbergh Lega consulting, Peter Hanson's, founder of cloud Cedar and Alex debris, principal of debris advisory. Great to see all of you here and, uh, remotely and look forward to see you in person at the next re-invent or other event. >>Thanks for having us. >>So Lynn, you're doing a lot of work in healthcare, Peter you're in the middle of all the action as data as code Alex. You're in deep on the databases. We've got a good round up of, of topics here ranging from healthcare to getting under the hood on databases. So as we'll start with you, what are you working on right now? What trends do you see in the database space? >>Yeah, sure. So I do, uh, I do a lot of consulting work working with different people and, you know, often with, with dynamo DB or, or just general serverless technology type stuff. Um, if you want to talk about trends that I'm seeing right now, I would say trends you're seeing as a lot, just more serverless native databases or cloud native databases where you're seeing these cool databases come out that really take advantage of, uh, this new cloud environment, right? Where you have scalability, you have plasticity of the clouds. So you're not having, you know, instant space environments anymore. You're paying for capacity, you're paying for throughput. You're able to scale up and down. You're not managing individual instances. So a lot of cool stuff that we're seeing, you know, um, with this new generation of, of infrastructure and in particular database is taking advantage of this, this new cloud world >>And really lot deep into the database side in terms of like cloud native impact, diversity of database types, when to use certain databases that also a big deal. >>Yeah, absolutely. I like, I totally agree. I love seeing the different types of databases and, you know, AWS has this whole, uh, purpose-built database strategy. And I think that, that makes a lot of sense. Um, you know, I want to go too far with it. I would, I would more think about purpose-built categories and things like that, you know, specialize in an OLTB database within your, within your organization, whether that's dynamo DB or document DB or relational database Aurora or something like that. But then also choose some sort of analytics database, you know, if it's drew it or Redshift or Athena, and then, you know, if you have some specialized needs, you want to show some real time stuff to your users, check out rock site. If you want to, uh, you know, do some graph analytics, fraud detection, checkout tiger graph, a lot of cool stuff that we're seeing from the startup showcase here. >>Looking forward to unpacking that Lynn you've been in love now, a healthcare action with cloud ops, the pandemic pushes hard core on everybody. What are you working on? >>Yeah, it's all COVID data all the time. Uh, before the pandemic, I was supporting research groups for cancer genomics, which I still do, but, um, what's, uh, impactful is the explosive data volumes. You know, when you there's big data and there's genomic data, you know, I've worked with clients that have broken data centers, broken public cloud provider data centers because of the daily volume they're putting in. So there's this volume aspect. And then there's a collaboration, particularly around COVID research because of pandemic. And so you have this explosive volume, you have this, um, need for, uh, computational complexity. And that means cloud the challenge is it, you know, put the pedal to the metal. So you've got all these bioinformatics researchers that are used to single machine. Suddenly they have to deal with distributed compute. So it's a wild time to be in this space. >>What was the big change that you've seen with the, uh, the pandemic and in genomic cloud genomic specifically what's the big change has happened. >>The amount of data that is being put into the public cloud, um, previously people would have their data on their local, uh, capacity, and then they would publish their paper and the data may or may not become available for, uh, reproducing the research, uh, to accelerate for drug discovery and even variant identification. The data sets are being pushed to public cloud repositories, which is a whole new set of concerns. You have not only dealing with the volume and cost, but security, you know, there's federated security is non-trivial and not well understood by this domain. So there's so much work available here. >>Awesome. Peter, you're doing a lot with the data as a platform kind of view and platform engineering data as code is, is something that's being kicked around. What are you working on and how does platform engineering change as data becomes so much more prevalent in its value proposition? >>Yeah. So I'm the founder of cloud Cedar and, um, we sort of built this company out, this consultancy all around the challenges that a lot of companies have got with getting their data sorted, getting it organized, getting it ready for other use cases, such as analytics and machine learning, um, AI workloads and the like. So typically a platform engineering team will look after the organization of a company infrastructure, making sure that it's coherent across the company and a data platform, engineering teams doing something similar in that sense where they're, they're looking at making sure that, uh, data teams have a solid foundation to build upon, uh, that everything's quite predictable and what that enables is a faster velocity and the ability to use data as code as a way of specifying and onboarding data, building that, translating it, transforming it out into its specific domains and then on to data products. >>I have to ask you while you're here. Um, there's a big trend around data meshes right now. You're hearing, we've had a lot of stuff on the cube. Um, what are practical that people are using data mesh, first of all, is it relevant and how are people looking at this data mesh conversation? >>I think it becomes more and more relevant, uh, the bigger the organization that you're dealing with. So, you know, often times in the enterprise, you've got, uh, projects with timelines of five to 10 years often outlasting technology life cycles. The technology that you're building on is probably irrelevant by the time that you complete it. And what we're seeing is that data engineering teams and data teams more broadly, this organizational bottleneck and data mesh is all about, uh, breaking down that, um, bottleneck and decentralizing the work, shifting that work back onto, uh, development teams who oftentimes have got more of the context and a centralized data engineering team. And we're seeing a lot of, uh, Philocity increases as a result of that. >>It's interesting. There's so many different aspects of how data is changing the world. Lynn talks about the volume with the cloud and genomics. We're hearing data engineering at a platform level. You're talking about slicing and dicing and real-time information. You mentioned rock set, Alex. So I'd like to ask each of you to answer this next question, which is how has the team dynamics changed with data engineering because every single company's impacted. So if you're researchers, Lynn, you're pumping more data into the cloud, that's got a little bit of data engineering to it. Do they even understand that is that impacting them? So how has data changed the responsibilities or roles in this new emerging area of data engineering or whatever you want to call it? Lynn, we'll start with you. What do you, what do you see this impact? >>Well, you know, I mean, dev ops becomes data ops and ML ops and, uh, you know, this is a whole emergent area of work and it starts with an understanding of container technologies, which, you know, in different verticals like FinTech, that's a given, right, but in bioinformatics building an appropriately optimized Docker container is something I'm still working with customers now on because they have the concept of a Docker container is just a virtual machine, which obviously it isn't, or shouldn't be. So, um, you have, again, as I mentioned previously, this humongous skill gap, um, concepts like D, which are prevalent in ad tech FinTech, that's not available yet for most of my customers. So those are the things that I'm building. So the whole ops space is, um, this a wide open area. And really it's a question of practicality. Um, you know, I have, uh, a lot of experience with data lakes and, you know, containerizing and using the data lake platform. But a lot of my customers are going to move to like an interim pass based solutions. If they're using spark, for example, they might use to use a managed spark solution as an interim, um, step up to the cloud before they build their own containers. Because the amount of knowledge to do that effectively is non-trivial >>Peter, you mentioned data, you mentioned data lakes, onboarding data into lake house architectures, for instance, something that you're familiar with. Um, this is not obvious to some verticals obvious to others. What do you see this data engineering impact from a personnel standpoint? And then ultimately how things get built, >>You know, are you directing that to me, >>Peter? >>Yeah. So I think, um, first and foremost, you know, the workload that data engineering teams are dealing with is ever increasing. Usually there's a 10 X ratio of, um, software engineers to data engineers within a business and usually double the amount of analysts to data engineers again. And so they're, they're fighting it ever increasing backload. And, uh, so they're fighting an ever increasing backlog of, of, uh, tasks to do and tickets to, to, to churn through. And so what we're seeing is that data engineering teams are becoming data platform engineering teams where they're building capability instead of constantly hamster wheels spinning if you will. And so with that in mind, with onboarding data into, uh, a Lakehouse architecture or a data lake where data engineering teams, uh, uh, getting wins is developing a very good baseline of structure where they're getting the categorization, the data tagging, whether this data is of a particular domain, does it contain some, um, PII data, for instance, uh, and, and, and, and then the security aspects, and also, you know, the mechanisms on which to do the data transformations, >>Alex, on the database side, those are known personas in an enterprise, a them, the database team, but now the scale is so big. Um, and there's so much going on in databases. How does the data engineering impact organizations from your standpoint? >>Yeah, absolutely. I think definitely, you know, gone are the days where you have a single relational database that is serving operational queries for your users, and you can also serve analytics queries, you know, for your internal teams. It's, it's now split up into those purpose-built databases, like we've said. Uh, but now you've got two different teams managing it and they're, they're designing their data model for different things. You know? So L LLTP might have a more de-normalized model, something that works for very fast operations and it's optimized for that, but now you need to suck that data out and get it elsewhere so that your, your PM or your business analyst, or whoever can crunch through some of that. And, you know, now it needs to be in a more normalized format. How do you sort of bridge that gap? That's a tough one. I think you need to, you know, build empathy on each side of, of what each side is doing and, and build the tools to say, Hey, this is going to help you, uh, you know, LLTP team, if we know what, what users are actually doing, and, and if you can get us into the right format there, so that then I can, you know, we can analyze it, um, on the backend. >>So I think, I think building empathy across those teams is helpful. >>When I left to come back to, you mentioned a health and informatics is coming back. Um, but it's interesting, you know, I look at a database world and you look at the solutions that are out there. A lot of companies that build data solutions don't have a data problem. They've never, they're not swimming in a lot of data, but then you look at like the field that you're working in right now with the genomics and health and, and quantum, they're always, they're dealing with data all the time. So you have people who deal with a lot of data all the time are breaking through New Zealand. People who are don't have that experience are now becoming data full, right? So people are now either it's a first time problem, or they've always been swimming in a ton of data. So it's more of what's the new playbook. And then, wow, I've never had to deal with a lot of data before. What's your take? >>It's interesting. Cause they know, uh, bioinformatics hires, um, uh, grad students. So grad students, you know, use their, our scripts with their file on their laptop. And so, um, to get those folks to understand distributed container-based computing is like I said, a not non-trivial problem. What's been really interesting with the money pouring in to COVID research is when I first started, some of the workflows would take, you know, literally 500 hours and that was just okay. And coming out of FinTech, I was, uh, I could, I was blown away like FinTech is like, could that please take a millisecond rather than a second? Right. And so what has now happened, which makes it, you know, like I said, even more fun to work in this domain is, uh, the research dollars have really gone up because of the pandemic. And so there are, there are, there's this blending of people like me with more of a big data background coming into bioinformatics and working side by side. >>So it's this interesting sort of translation because you have the whole taxonomy of bioinformatics with genomics and sequencers and all the weird file types that you get. And then you have the whole taxonomy of dev ops data ops, you know, containers and Kubernetes and all that. And trying to get that into pipelines that can actually, you know, be efficient, given the constraints. Of course, we, on the tech side, we always want to make it super optimized. I had a customer that we got it down from 500 hours to minutes, but they wanted to stay with the past solution because it was easier for them to go from 500 hours to five hours was good enough, but you know, the techies want to get it down to five minutes. >>This is, this is, we've seen this movie before dev ops, um, edge and op operations, you know, IOT, world scenes, the convergence of cultures. Now you have data and then old, old school operations kind of coming up. So this kind of supports the thesis. That data as code is the next infrastructure as code. What do you guys, what's the reaction there for you guys? What do you think about that? What does data's code mean? If infrastructure's code was cloud and dev ops, what is data as code? What does that mean? >>I could take it if you like. I think, um, data teams, organizations, um, have been long been this bottleneck within the organization and there's like this dark matter of untapped energy and potential waiting to be unleashed a data with the advent of open source projects like DBT, um, have been slowly sort of embracing software development, lifecycle practices. And this is really sort of seeing a, a big steep increase in, um, in their velocity. And, and this is only going to increase and improve as we're seeing data teams, um, embrace starter as code. I think it's, uh, the future is bright for data. So I'm very excited. >>Lynn Peter reaction. I mean, agility data is code is developer concept CICB pipeline. You mentioned it new operational workflows coming into traditional operations reaction. >>Yeah. I mean, I think Peter's right on there. I'd say, you know, some of those tools we're seeing come in from, from software, like, like DBT, basically giving you that infrastructure as code, but applied to that data realm. Also there have been a few, like get for data type things, pack a derm, I believe is one and a few other ones where you bring that in and you also see a lot of immutability concepts flowing into the data realm. So I think just seeing some of those software engineering concepts come over to the data world has, has been pretty interesting >>What we'll literally just versioning datasets and the identification of what's in a data set. What's not in a data set. Some of this is around ethical AI as well, um, is a whole, uh, area that has come out of research groups. Um, mostly AI research groups, but is being applied to medical data and needs to be obviously, um, so this, this, this, um, metadata and versioning around data sets is really, I think, a very of the moment area. >>Yeah, I think we, we, you guys are bringing up a really good kind of direction that's happening in data. And that is something that you're seeing on the software side, open source and now dev ops. And now going to data is that the supply chain challenges of we've been talking about it here on the cube and this, this, um, this episode is, you know, we've seen Ukraine war, but some open source, you know, malware hitting datasets is data secure. What is that going to look like? So you starting to get into this what's the supply chain, is it verified data sets if data sets have to be managed a whole nother level of data supply chain comes up, what do you guys think about that? >>I'll jump in. Oh, sorry. I'll jump in again. I think that, you know, there's, there's, um, some, some of the compliance requirements, um, around financial data are going to be applied to other types of data, probably health data. So immutability reproducibility, um, that is, uh, legally required. Um, also some of the privacy requirements that originated in Europe with GDPR are going to be replicated as more and more, um, types of data. And again, I'm always going to speak for health, but there's other types as well coming out of personal devices and that kind of stuff. So I think, you know, this idea of data as code is it's, it goes down to versioning and controlling and, um, that's, uh, that's sort of a real succinct way to say it that we didn't used to think about that. We just put it in our, you know, relational database and we were good to go, but, um, versioning and controlling in the global ecosystem is kind of, uh, where I'm focusing my efforts. >>It brings up a good question. If databases, if data is going to be part of the development process has to be addressable, which means horizontally scalable. That means it has to be accessible and open. How do you make that work and not foreclose it with a lot of restrictions? >>I think the use of data catalogs and appropriate tagging and categorization, you know, I think, you know, everyone's heard of the term data swamp, and I think that just came about because that everyone saw like, oh, wow, S3, you know, infinite storage. We just, you know, throw whatever in there for as long as we want. And I think at times, you know, the proliferation of S3 buckets, um, and the like, you know, we've just seen, uh, perhaps security, not maintained as well as it could have been. And I think that's kind of where data platform engineering teams have really sort of, uh, come into the, for, you know, creating a governance set of buckets like formation on top. But I think that's kind of where we need to see a lot more work with appropriate tags and also the automatic publishing of metadata into data catalogs so that, um, folks can easily search and address particular data sets and also control the access. You know, for instance, you've got some PII data, perhaps really only your marketing folks should be looking at email addresses and the like not perhaps your finance folks. So I think, you know, there's, there's a lot to be leveraged there in formation and other solutions, >>Alex, let's back up and talk about what's in it for the customer, right. Let's zoom back and saying reality is I just got to get my data to make sure it's secure always on and not going to be hackable. And I just got to get my data available on river performance. So then, then I got to start thinking about, okay, how do I intersect it? So what should teams be thinking about right now as I look up all their data options or databases across their enterprise? >>Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a good question. I just, you know, I think Peter made some good points there and you can think of history as sort of ebbing and flowing between centralization and decentralization a lot of times. And you know, when storage was expensive, data was going to be sort of centralized and Maine maintained, sort of a, you know, by the, uh, the people that are in charge of it. But then when, when S3 comes along, it really decreases storage. Now we can do a lot more experiments on it. We can store a lot more of our data, keep it around and do different things on it. You know, now we've got regulations again, we were, we gotta, we gotta be more realistic about, about keeping that data secure and make sure we're, we're doing the right things with it. So it's, we're gonna probably go through a period of, of centralization as we work out some of this tooling around, you know, tagging and, and ethical AI that, that both Peter. And when we're talking about here and maybe get us into that, that next wearable world of de-centralization again. But I, I think that ebb and flow is going to be natural in response to, you know, the problems of the, the other extreme, >>Where are we in the market right now from progress standpoint, because data lakes don't want to be data swamps. You seeing lake formation as a data architecture, as an example, where are we with customers? What are they doing right now? Where would you put them in the progress bar of, of evolution towards the Nirvana of having this data sovereignty? And this data is code environment. Are they just now in the data lake store, everything real-time and historical? >>Well, I can jump in there. Um, SQL on files is the, is the driver. And so we know when Amazon got Athena, um, that really drove a lot of the customers to really realistically look at data lake technologies, but data warehouses are not going away. And the integration between the two is not seamless. No, we, we are partners with AWS, but we don't work for them. So we can tell you the truth here. Um, there's, there's work to it, but it really, for my customers, it really upped the ante around data lake, uh, because Athena and technologies like that, the serverless, um, SQL queries or the familiar quarry, um, uh, libraries really drove a movement away from either OLTB or OLAP, more expensive, more cumbersome structures, >>But they still need that. Oh, LTP, like if they have high latency issues, they want to be low latency. Can they have the best of both worlds? That's the question. >>I mean, I w I would say we're getting, you know, we're getting closer. We're always going to be, uh, you know, that technology is going to be moving forward, and then we'll just move the goalpost again, in terms of, of what we're asking from it. But I think, you know, the technology that's getting out there, you can get, get really well. And then, you know, just what I work in the dynamo DB world. So you can get really great low latency. So, you know, single digit millisecond LLTP response times on that. I think some of the analytics stuff has been a problem with that. And there, there are different solutions out there to where you can export dynamo to S3, and then you can be doing SQL on your FA your files with Athena Lakeland's talking about, or now you see, you know, rock set of partner here that that'll just ingest your dynamo, DB data, you know, make all those changes. So if you're doing a lot of, uh, changes to your data and dynamo is going to reflect in Roxanna, and then you can do analytics queries, you can do complex filters, different things like that. So, you know, I, I think we continue to push the envelope and then we moved the goalpost again. But, um, you know, I think we're in a, a lot better place than we were a few years ago, for sure. >>Where do you guys see this going relative to the next level? If data as code becomes that next agile, um, software defined environment with open source? Well, all of these new tools with serverless things happening with data lakes are built in with nice architectures with data warehouses, where does it go next? What happens next? If this becomes an agile environment, what's the impact? >>Well, I don't want to be so dominant, but I have, I feel strongly, so I'm going to jump in here. So, so I, um, I feel like, you know, now for my, my, my most computationally intensive workloads, I'm using GPS, I'm bursting to GPU for TensorFlow neural networks. So I've been doing quite a bit of exploration around Amazon bracket for QPS and it's early. Um, and it's specialty. It's not, you know, for everybody. And the learning curve again is pretty daunting, but, um, there are some use cases out there. I mean, I got ahold of a paper where some people did some, um, it was a Q CNN, um, quantum convolutional neural network for lung cancer images, um, from COVID patients and the, the, uh, the QP Hugh, um, algorithm pipeline performed more accurately and faster. So I think, um, bursting to quantum is something to pay attention to. >>Awesome. Peter, what's your take on what's next? >>Well, I think there's still, um, that, that was absolutely fascinating from Lynn, but I think also there's, there's, uh, you know, some more sort of low-level, uh, low-hanging fruit available in, in the data stack. I think there's a lot of, there's still a lot of challenges around the transformation there, getting our data from sort of raw landed data into business domains, and that sort of talks to a lot of what data mesh is all about. I think if we can somehow make that a little more frictionless, because that that's really where the like labor intensive work is. That's, that's kinda dominating, uh, data engineering teams and where we're sort of trying to push that, that workload back onto, um, you know, software engineering teams. >>Alice will give you the final word. What's the impact. What's the next step? What's it look like in the future? >>Yeah, for sure. I mean, I've never had the, uh, breaking a data center problem that wind's had, or the bursting the quantum problem, for sure. But, you know, if you're in that, you know, the pool I swim and of terabytes of data and below and things like that, I think it's a good time. It just like we saw, you know, like we were talking about dev ops and, and pushing, uh, you know, allowing software engineers to handle more of, of the operation stuff. I think the same thing with data can happen where, you know, software engineering teams can handle not just their code, not just, you know, deploying and operating it, but also thinking about their data around the code. And that doesn't mean you won't have people assist you within your organization. You won't have some specialists in there, but I think pushing more stuff, even onto the individual development teams where they have ownership of that. And they're thinking about it through all this different life cycle. I mean, I'm pretty bullish on that. And I think that's an exciting development >>Was that shift, what left with left is security. What does that mean to >>Shipped so much stuff left, but now, you know, the things that were at the end are back at the end again, but, uh, you know, at least we think we can think about that stuff early in the process, which is good, >>Great conversation, very provocative, very realistic and great impact on the future data as code is real, the developers I do believe will have a great operational role and the data stack concept and impacting things like quantum, it's all kind of lining up nicely. Um, and it's a great opportunity to be in this field from a science and policy standpoint. Um, data engineering is legit. It's going to continue to grow and thanks for unpacking that here on the queue. Appreciate it. Okay. Great panel D AWS heroes. They work with AWS and the ecosystem independently out there. They're in the trenches doing the front lines, cracking the code here with data as code season two, episode two of the ongoing series of the 80, but startups I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome back to AWS Startup Showcase, I'm John Furrier, your host. This is the Hero panel, the AWS Heroes. These are folks that have a lot of experience in Open Source, having fun building great projects and commercializing the value and best practices of Open Source innovation. We've got some great guests here. Liz Rice, Chief Open Source Officer, Isovalent. CUBE alumni, great to see you. Brian LeRoux, who is the Co-founder and CTO of begin.com. Erica Windisch who's an Architect for Developer Experience. AWS Hero, also CUBE alumni. Casey Lee, CTO Gaggle. Doing some great stuff in ed tech. Great collection of experts and experienced folks doing some fun stuff, welcome to this conversation this CUBE panel. >> Hi. >> Thanks for having us. >> Hello. >> Let's go down the line. >> I don't normally do this, but since we're remote and we have such great guests, go down the line and talk about why Open Source is important to you guys. What projects are you currently working on? And what's the coolest thing going on there? Liz we'll start with you. >> Okay, so I am very involved in the world of Cloud Native. I'm the chair of the technical oversight committee for the Cloud Native Computing Foundation. So that means I get to see a lot of what's going on across a very broad range of Cloud Native projects. More specifically, Isovalent. I focus on Cilium, which is it's based on a technology called EBPF. That is to me, probably the most exciting technology right now. And then finally, I'm also involved in an organization called OpenUK, which is really pushing for more use of open technologies here in the United Kingdom. So spread around lots of different projects. And I'm in a really fortunate position, I think, to see what's happening with lots of projects and also the commercialization of lots of projects. >> Awesome, Brian what project are you working on? >> Working project these days called Architect. It's a Open Source project built on top of AWSM. It adds a lot of sugar and terseness to the SM experience and just makes it a lot easier to work with and get started. AWS can be a little bit intimidating to people at times. And the Open Source community is stepping up to make some of that bond ramp a little bit easier. And I'm also an Apache member. And so I keep a hairy eyeball on what's going on in that reality all the time. And I've been doing this open-source thing for quite a while, and yeah, I love it. It's a great thing. It's real science. We get to verify each other's work and we get to expand and build on human knowledge. So that's a huge honor to just even be able to do that and I feel stoked to be here so thanks for having me. >> Awesome, yeah, and totally great. Erica, what's your current situation going on here? What's happening? >> Sure, so I am currently working on developer experience of a number of Open Source STKS and CLI components from my current employer. And previously, recently I left New Relic where I was working on integrating with OpenTelemetry, as well as a number of other things. Before that I was a maintainer of Docker and of OpenStack. So I've been in this game for a while as well. And I tend to just put my fingers in a lot of little pies anywhere from DVD players 20 years ago to a lot of this open telemetry and monitoring and various STKs and developer tools is where like Docker and OpenStack and the STKs that I work on now, all very much focusing on developer as the user. >> Yeah, you're always on the wave, Erica great stuff. Casey, what's going on? Do you got some great ed techs happening? What's happening with you? >> Yeah, sure. The primary Open Source project that I'm contributing to right now is ACT. This is a tool I created a couple of years back when GitHub Actions first came out, and my motivation there was I'm just impatient. And that whole commit, push, wait time where you're testing out your pipelines is painful. And so I wanted to build a tool that allowed developers to test out their GitHub Actions workflows locally. And so this tool uses Docker containers to emulate, to get up action environment and gives you fast feedback on those workflows that you're building. Lot of innovation happening at GitHub. And so we're just trying to keep up and continue to replicate those new features functionalities in the local runner. And the biggest challenge I've had with this project is just keeping up with the community. We just passed 20,000 stars, and it'd be it's a normal week to get like 10 PRs. So super excited to announce just yesterday, actually I invited four of the most active contributors to help me with maintaining the project. And so this is like a big deal for me, letting the project go and bringing other people in to help lead it. So, yeah, huge shout out to those folks that have been helping with driving that project. So looking forward to what's next for it. >> Great, we'll make sure the SiliconANGLE riders catch that quote there. Great call out. Let's start, Brian, you made me realize when you mentioned Apache and then you've been watching all the stuff going on, it brings up the question of the evolution of Open Source, and the commercialization trends have been very interesting these days. You're seeing CloudScale really impact also with the growth of code. And Liz, if you remember, the Linux Foundation keeps making projections and they keep blowing past them every year on more and more code and more and more entrance coming in, not just individuals, corporations. So you starting to see Netflix donates something, you got Lyft donate some stuff, becomes a project company forms around it. There's a lot of entrepreneurial activity that's creating this new abstraction layers, new platforms, not just tools. So you start to see a new kickup trajectory with Open Source. You guys want to comment on this because this is going to impact how fast the enterprise will see value here. >> I think a really great example of that is a project called Backstage that's just come out of Spotify. And it's going through the incubation process at the CNCF. And that's why it's front of mind for me right now, 'cause I've been working on the due diligence for that. And the reason why I thought it was interesting in relation to your question is it's spun out of Spotify. It's fully Open Source. They have a ton of different enterprises using it as this developer portal, but they're starting to see some startups emerging offering like a hosted managed version of Backstage or offering services around Backstage or offering commercial plugins into Backstage. And I think it's really fascinating to see those ecosystems building up around a project and different ways that people can. I'm a big believer. You cannot sell the Open Source code, but you can sell other things that create value around Open Source projects. So that's really exciting to see. >> Great point. Anyone else want to weigh in and react to that? Because it's the new model. It's not the old way. I mean, I remember when I was in college, we had the Pirate software. Open Source wasn't around. So you had to deal under the table. Now it's free. But I mean the old way was you had to convince the enterprise, like you've got a hard knit, it builds the community and the community manage the quality of the code. And then you had to build the company to make sure they could support it. Now the companies are actually involved in it, right? And then new startups are forming faster. And the proof points are shorter and highly accelerated for that. I mean, it's a whole new- >> It's a Cambrian explosion, and it's great. It's one of those things that it's challenging for the new developers because they come in and they're like, "Whoa, what is all this stuff that I'm supposed to figure out?" And there's no right answer and there's no wrong answer. There's just tons of it. And I think that there's a desire for us to have one sort of well-known trot and happy path, that audience we're a lot better with a more diverse community, with lots of options, with lots of ways to approach these problems. And I think it's just great. A challenge that we have with all these options and all these Cambrian explosion of projects and all these competing ideas, right now, the sustainability, it's a bit of a tricky question to answer. We know that there's a commercialization aspect that helps us fund these projects, but how we compose the open versus the commercial source is still a bit of a tricky question and a tough one for a lot of folks. >> Erica, would you chime in on that for a second. I want to get your angle on that, this experience and all this code, and I'm a new person, I'm an existing person. Do I get like a blue check mark and verify? I mean, these are questions like, well, how do you navigate? >> Yeah, I think this has been something happening for a while. I mean, back in the early OpenStack days, 2010, for instance, Rackspace Open Sourcing, OpenStack and ANSU Labs and so forth, and then trying, having all these companies forming in creating startups around this. I started at a company called Cloudccaling back in late 2010, and we had some competitors such as Piston and so forth where a lot of the ANSUL Labs people went. But then, the real winners, I think from OpenStack ended up being the enterprises that jumped in. We had Red Hat in particular, as well as HP and IBM jumping in and investing in OpenStack, and really proving out a lot of... not that it was the first time, but this is when we started seeing billions of dollars pouring into Open Source projects and Open Source Foundations, such as the OpenStack Foundation, which proceeded a lot of the things that we now see with the Linux Foundation, which was then created a little bit later. And at the same time, I'm also reflecting a little bit what Brian said because there are projects that don't get funded, that don't get the same attention, but they're also getting used quite significantly. Things like Log4j really bringing this to the spotlight in terms of projects that are used everywhere by everything with significant outsized impacts on the industry that are not getting funded, that aren't flashy enough, that aren't exciting enough because it's just logging, but a vulnerability in it brings every everything and everybody down and has possibly billions of dollars of impact to our industry because nobody wanted to fund this project. >> I think that brings up the commercialization point about maybe bringing a venture capital model in saying, "Hey, that boring little logging thing could be a key ingredient for say solving some observability problems so I think let's put some cash." Again then we'd never seen that before. Now you're starting to see that kind of a real smart investment thesis going into Open Source projects. I mean, Promethease, Crafter, these are projects that turned off companies. This is turning up companies. >> A decade ago, there was no money in Dev tools that I think that's been fully debunked now. They used to be a concept that the venture community believed, but there's just too much evidence to the contrary, the companies like Cash Court, Datadog, the list goes on and on. I think the challenge for the Open Source (indistinct) comes back to foundations and working (indistinct) these developers make this code safe and secure. >> Casey, what's your reaction to all of this? You've got, so a project has gained some traction, got some momentum. There's a lot of mission critical. I won't say white spaces, but the opportunities in the big cloud game happening. And there's a lot of, I won't say too many entrepreneurial, but there's a lot of community action happening that's precommercialization that's getting traction. How does this all develop naturally and then vector in quickly when it hits? >> Yeah, I want to go back to the Log4j topic real quick. I think that it's a great example of an area that we need to do better at. And there was a cool article that Rob Pike wrote describing how to quantify the criticality. I think that's sort of quantifying criticality was the article he wrote on how to use metrics, to determine how valuable, how important a piece of Open Source is to the community. And we really need to highlight that more. We need a way to make it more clear how important this software is, how many people depend on it and how many people are contributing to it. And because right now we all do that. Like if I'm going to evaluate an Open Source software, sure, I'll look at how many stars it has and how many contributors it has. But I got to go through and do all that work myself and come up with. It would be really great if we had an agreed upon method for ranking the criticality of software, but then also the risk, hey, that this is used by a ton of people, but nobody's contributing to it anymore. That's a concern. And that would be great to potential users of that to signal whether or not it makes sense. The Open Source Security Foundation, just getting off the ground, they're doing some work in this space, and I'm really excited to see where they go with that looking at ways to stop score critically. >> Well, this brings up a good point while we've got everyone here, let's take a plug and plug a project you think that's not getting the visibility it needs. Let's go through each of you, point out a project that you think people should be looking at and talking about that might get some free visibility here. Anyone want to highlight projects they think should be focused more on, or that needs a little bit of love? >> I think, I mean, particularly if we're talking about these sort of vulnerability issues, there's a ton of work going on, like in the Secure Software Foundation, other foundations, I think there's work going on in Apache somewhere as well around the bill of material, the software bill of materials, the Secure Software supply chain security, even enumerating your dependencies is not trivial today. So I think there's going to be a ton of people doing really good work on that, as well as the criticality aspect. It's all like that. There's a really great xkcd cartoon with your software project and some really big monolithic lumps. And then, this tiny little piece in a very important point that's maintained by somebody in his bedroom in Montana or something and if you called it out. >> Yeah, you just opened where the next lightening and a bottle comes from. And this is I think the beauty of Open Source is that you get a little collaboration, you get three feet in a cloud of dust going and you get some momentum, and if it's relevant, it rises to the top. I think that's the collective intelligence of Open Source. The question I want to ask that the panel here is when you go into an enterprise, and now that the game is changing with a much more collaborative and involved, what's the story if they say, hey, what's in it for me, how do I manage the Open Source? What's the current best practice? Because there's no doubt I can't ignore it. It's in everything we do. How do I organize around it? How do I build around it to be more efficient and more productive and reduce the risk on vulnerabilities to managing staff, making sure the right teams in place, the right agility and all those things? >> You called it, they got to get skin in the game. They need to be active and involved and donating to a sustainable Open Source project is a great way to start. But if you really want to be active, then you should be committing. You should have a goal for your organization to be contributing back to that project. Maybe not committing code, it could be committing resources into the darks or in the tests, or even tweeting about an Open Source project is contributing to it. And I think a lot of these enterprises could benefit a lot from getting more active with the Open Source Foundations that are out there. >> Liz, you've been actively involved. I know we've talked personally when the CNCF started, which had a great commercial uptake from companies. What do you think the current state-of-the-art kind of equation is has it changed a little bit? Or is it the game still the same? >> Yeah, and in the early days of the CNCF, it was very much dominated by vendors behind the project. And now we're seeing more and more membership from end-user companies, the kind of enterprises that are building their businesses on Cloud Native, but their business is not in itself. That's not there. The infrastructure is not their business. And I think seeing those companies, putting money in, putting time in, as Brian says contributing resources quite often, there's enough money, but finding the talent to do the work and finding people who are prepared to actually chop the wood and carry the water, >> Exactly. >> that it's hard. >> And if enterprises can find peoples to spend time on Open Source projects, help with those chores, it's hugely valuable. And it's one of those the rising tide floats all the boats. We can raise security, we can reduce the amount of dependency on maintain projects collectively. >> I think the business models there, I think one of the things I'll react to and then get your guys' comments is remember which CubeCon it was, it was one of the early ones. And I remember seeing Apple having a booth, but nobody was manning. It was just an Apple booth. They weren't doing anything, but they were recruiting. And I think you saw the transition of a business model where the worry about a big vendor taking over a project and having undue influence over it goes away because I think this idea of participation is also talent, but also committing that talent back into the communities as a model, as a business model, like, okay, hire some great people, but listen, don't screw up the Open Source piece of it 'cause that's a critical. >> Also hire a channel, right? They can use those contributions to source that talent and build the reputation in the communities that they depend on. And so there's really a lot of benefit to the larger organizations that can do this. They'll have a huge pipeline of really qualified engineers right out the gate without having to resort to cheesy whiteboard interviews, which is pretty great. >> Yeah, I agree with a lot of this. One of my concerns is that a lot of these corporations tend to focus very narrowly on certain projects, which they feel that they depend greatly, they'll invest in OpenStack, they'll invest in Docker, they'll invest in some of the CNCF projects. And then these other projects get ignored. Something that I've been a proponent of for a little bit for a while is observability of your dependencies. And I don't think there's quite enough projects and solutions to this. And it sounds maybe from lists, there are some projects that I don't know about, but I also know that there's some startups like Snyk and so forth that help with a little bit of this problem, but I think we need more focus on some of these edges. And I think companies need to do better, both in providing, having some sort of solution for observability of the dependencies, as well as understanding those dependencies and managing them. I've seen companies for instance, depending on software that they actively don't want to use based on a certain criteria that they already set projects, like they'll set a requirement that any project that they use has a code of conduct, but they'll then use projects that don't have codes of conduct. And if they don't have a code of conduct, then employees are prohibited from working on those projects. So you've locked yourself into a place where you're depending on software that you have instructed, your employees are not allowed to contribute to, for certain legal and other reasons. So you need to draw a line in the sand and then recognize that those projects are ones that you don't want to consume, and then not use them, and have observability around these things. >> That's a great point. I think we have 10 minutes left. I want to just shift to a topic that I think is relevant. And that is as Open Source software, software, people develop software, you see under the hood kind of software, SREs developing very quickly in the CloudScale, but also you've got your classic software developers who were writing code. So you have supply chain, software supply chain challenges. You mentioned developer experience around how to code. You have now automation in place. So you've got the development of all these things that are happening. Like I just want to write software. Some people want to get and do infrastructure as code so DevSecOps is here. So how does that look like going forward? How has the future of Open Source going to make the developers just want to code quickly? And the folks who want to tweak the infrastructure a bit more efficient, any views on that? >> At Gaggle, we're using AWS' CDK, exclusively for our infrastructure as code. And it's a great transition for developers instead of writing Yammel or Jason, or even HCL for their infrastructure code, now they're writing code in the language that they're used to Python or JavaScript, and what that's providing is an easier transition for developers into that Infrastructure as code at Gaggle here, but it's also providing an opportunity to provide reusable constructs that some Devs can build on. So if we've got a very opinionated way to deploy a serverless app in a database and do auto-scaling behind and all stuff, we can present that to a developer as a library, and they can just consume it as it is. Maybe that's as deep as they want to go and they're happy with that. But then they want to go deeper into it, they can either use some of the lower level constructs or create PRs to the platform team to have those constructs changed to fit their needs. So it provides a nice on-ramp developers to use the tools and languages they're used to, and then also go deeper as they need. >> That's awesome. Does that mean they're not full stack developers anymore that they're half stack developers they're taking care of for them? >> I don't know either. >> We'll in. >> No, only kidding. Anyway, any other reactions to this whole? I just want to code, make it easy for me, and some people want to get down and dirty under the hood. >> So I think that for me, Docker was always a key part of this. I don't know when DevSecOps was coined exactly, but I was talking with people about it back in 2012. And when I joined Docker, it was a part of that vision for me, was that Docker was applying these security principles by default for your application. It wasn't, I mean, yes, everybody adopted because of the portability and the acceleration of development, but it was for me, the fact that it was limiting what you could do from a security angle by default, and then giving you these tuna balls that you can control it further. You asked about a project that may not get enough recognition is something called DockerSlim, which is designed to optimize your containers and will make them smaller, but it also constraints the security footprint, and we'll remove capabilities from the container. It will help you build security profiles for app armor and the Red Hat one. SELinux. >> SELinux. >> Yeah, and this is something that I think a lot of developers, it's kind of outside of the realm of things that they're really thinking about. So the more that we can automate those processes and make it easier out of the box for users or for... when I say users, I mean, developers, so that it's straightforward and automatic and also giving them the capability of refining it and tuning it as needed, or simply choosing platforms like serverless offerings, which have these security constraints built in out of the box and sometimes maybe less tuneable, but very strong by default. And I think that's a good place for us to be is where we just enforced these things and make you do things in a secure way. >> Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Kubernetes, but it's not the right hammer for every nail. And there are absolutely tons of applications that are better served by something like Lambda where a lot more of that security surface is taken care of for the developer. And I think we will see better tooling around security profiling and making it easier to shrink wrap your applications that there are plenty of products out there that can help you with this in a cloud native environment. But I think for the smaller developer let's say, or an earlier stage company, yeah, it needs to be so much more straightforward. Really does. >> Really an interesting time, 10 years ago, when I was working at Adobe, we used to requisition all these analysts to tell us how many developers there were for the market. And we thought there was about 20 million developers. If GitHub's to be believed, we think there is now around 80 million developers. So both these groups are probably wrong in their numbers, but the takeaway here for me is that we've got a lot of new developers and a lot of these new developers are really struck by a paradox of choice. And they're typically starting on the front end. And so there's a lot of movement in the stack moved towards the front end. We saw that at re:Invent when Amazon was really pushing Amplify 'cause they're seeing this too. It's interesting because this is where folks start. And so a lot of the obstructions are moving in that direction, but maybe not always necessarily totally appropriate. And so finding the right balance for folks is still a work in progress. Like Lambda is a great example. It lets me focus totally on just business logic. I don't have to think about infrastructure pretty much at all. And if I'm newer to the industry, that makes a lot of sense to me. As use cases expand, all of a sudden, reality intervenes, and it might not be appropriate for everything. And so figuring out what those edges are, is still the challenge, I think. >> All right, thank you very much for coming on the CUBE here panel. AWS Heroes, thanks everyone for coming. I really appreciate it, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thanks for having me. >> Okay, that's a wrap here back to the program and the awesome startups. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(bright music) >> Hello cloud computing friends and welcome back to theCUBE, where we are live from Las Vegas, Nevada, here at AWS re:Invent all week. My name is Savannah Peterson, very excited to be joined by Paul Gillan today. How are you doing? >> I'm doing great, Savannah. It's my first re:Invent. >> I was just going to ask you >> So it's quite an experience. >> If you've ever been to re:Invent. >> It's dazzling much like the sequins on your top. It's dazzling. >> Yes. >> It's a jam packed affair. I came to the COMDEX Conference for many years in Las Vegas, which was huge event and this really rivals it in terms of these crowd sizes. But I think there's more intensity here. There's more excitement. People are just jazzed about being here to the extent that I never saw at other computer conferences. >> I thought I would agree with you. It's my first re:Invent as well. I'm glad we could share this experience together. And the vibe, the pulse, I think being back in person is really contagious as well. Ooh, maybe the wrong word to use, but in a great way. The energy is definitely radiating between people here. I'll watch my words a little bit better. >> And in person we have with us Samuel Nicholls, the director of public cloud at Global Product Marketing at Veeam Software. Sam, is it Sam or Samuel? >> Depends if I'm in trouble, Paul. >> Savannah: But it depends on who's saying it out loud. >> Yeah, yeah. It's typically, Samuel is usually reserved for my mother, so- >> Yeah. >> (laughs) Well, Sam, thanks for joining us. >> We'll stick with Sam on the show. >> Yeah. >> So Veeam been a red hot company for several years. Really made its, uh, its reputation in the VMware world. Now you've got this whole-sail shift to the cloud, not that VMware is not important still, but how is that affecting, you're shifting with it, how is that affecting your role as a product manager and the business overall? >> Yeah, it's a fantastic question. Obviously Veeam was pioneered in terms of being the purpose-built backup and recovery company for VMware. And as these workloads are being transitioned from the data center into the cloud or just net new workloads being created in the cloud, there is that equal need for backup and recovery there. So it's incredibly important that we were able to provide a purpose-built backup and recovery solution for workloads that live in AWS as well. >> Paul: And how different is it backing up an AWS workload compared to a VMware workload? >> I think it depends on what kind of service a user is, is, is utilizing, right? There's infrastructure as a service, platform as a service, software as a service. And given the differences in what is exposed to that customer that can make backup and recovery quite challenging. So I would say that the primary thing that we want to look at is utilizing native snapshots is our first line of defense when it comes to backup and recovery, irrespective of what workload that right might be whether it's a virtual machine, Amazon EC2, some sort of database on Amazon RDS, a file share, so on. >> Savannah: I bet you're seeing a lot across verticals and across the industry given the support that you're giving customers. What are you seeing in the market and in customer environments? What are some of those trends? >> So I think the major trends that we highlight in our data protection trend support, which is a new update is coming very shortly in the new year, is- >> Savannah: We have to check that out. >> Yeah, absolutely. The physical server is on a decline within the data center. Virtualized workloads, namely VMware is relatively static, kind of flat. The real hockey stick is with the cloud workloads. And as I mentioned before, that is partially because workloads are being transitioned from physical to virtual machines to being cloud hosted but also we're creating more applications and the cloud has become lead de facto standard for new workloads. So you hear about cloud first initiatives, digital transformation, the cloud is central to that. >> You mentioned snapshotting, which is a relatively new phenomenon, although it's taken a hold rapidly, how does snapshotting work in the cloud versus in on your on-prem environment? >> Samuel: It's not wildly different at all. I think the snapshots is again, a great first line of defense for helping users achieve very low recovery point objectives. So the frequency that they can protect their data as well as very low recovery time objectives, how quickly that I can recover the data. Because that's why we're backing up, right? We need the ability to recover. However, snapshots certainly have their limitations as well. They are not independent of the workload that is being protected. So if there were to be some sort of cybersecurity event like ransomware that is prolific throughout pretty much every business, every vertical. When that snapshot is not independent, if the production system becomes compromised that snapshot's likely to be compromised as well. And then going back to the recovery piece, not going to have something to recover from. >> And it's not a one and done with ransomware. >> No. >> It's, yeah. So how, so what is the role that backup plays? I mean a lot of people, I feel like security is such a hot topic here in the show and just in general, attacks are coming in unique form factors for everyone. I mean, I feel like backup is, no pun intended, the backbone of a system here. How does that affect what you're creating, I mean? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think, like you say the backup is core to any comprehensive security strategy, right? I think when we talk about security, everyone tends to focus on the preventative, the proactive piece, stopping the bad guys from getting in. However, there is that remediative aspect as well because like you say, ransomware is relentless, right? You, you as a good guy have to pretty much fend off each and every single attack that comes your way. And that can be an infinite number of attacks. We're all human beings, we're fallible, right? And sometimes we can't defend against everything. So having a secure backup strategy is part of that remediative recovery component for a cybersecurity strategy is critical. And that includes things like encryption, immutability, logical separation of data and so forth. >> Paul: We know that ransomware is a scourge on-premises, typically begins with the end users, end user workstation. How does ransomware work in the cloud? And do the cloud providers have adequate protections against ransomware? Or can they? >> Samuel: Yeah, it's a, it's a fantastic question as well. I think when we look at the cloud, one of the common misconceptions is as we transition workloads to the cloud, we are transitioning responsibility to that cloud provider. And again, it's a misconception, right? It is a shared responsibility between the cloud provider in this case, AWS and the user. So as we transition these workloads across varying different services, infrastructure, platform, software as a service, we're always, always transitioning varying degrees of responsibility. But we always own our data and it is our responsibility to protect and secure that data, for the actual infrastructure components, the hardware that is on the onus of the cloud provider, so I'd say that's the major difference. >> Is ransomware as big a threat in the cloud as it is on-prem? >> Absolutely. There's no difference between a ransomware attack on-premises or in the cloud. Irrespective of where you are choosing to run your workloads, you need to have that comprehensive cybersecurity strategy in order to defend against that and ultimately recover as well if there's a successful attempt. >> Yeah, it's, ooh, okay. Let's get us out at the dark shadows real quick (laughs) and bring us back to a little bit of the business use case here. A lot of people using AWS. What do you think are some of the considerations, they should have when they're thinking about this, thinking about growing their (indistinct)? >> Well, if we're going to stick down the dark shadows, the cybersecurity piece. >> We can be the darkness. >> You and me kind of dark shadows business. >> Yeah, yeah. >> We can go rainbows and unicorns, nice and happy if you like. I think there's a number of considerations they need to keep up. Security is, is, is number one. The next piece is around the recovery as well. I think folks, when they, when we talk about backup and recovery, the focus is always on the backup piece of it. But again, we need to focus on why we're doing the backup. It's the recovery, it's the recovery component. So making sure that we have a clean verifiable backup that we're able to restore data from. Can we do that in a, in efficient and timely manner? And I think the other major consideration is looking at the entirety of our environments as well. Very few companies are a hundred percent sole sourced on a single cloud provider. It is typically hybrid cloud. It's around 80% of organizations are hybrid, right? So they have their on-premises data and they also have workloads running in one or multiple clouds. And when it comes to backup and recovery of all of these different infrastructures and environments, the way that we approach it is very different. And that often leads to multiple different point products from multiple different vendors. The average company utilizes three different backup products, sometimes as many as seven and that can introduce a management nightmare that's very complex, very resource intensive, expensive. So looking at the entirety of the environment and looking to utilize a backup provider that can cover the entirety of that environment while centralizing everything under a single management console helps folks be a lot more efficient, a lot more cost effective and ultimately better when it comes to data protection. >> Amazon and all cloud providers really are increasingly making regions transparent. Just at this conference, Amazon introduced failover controls from multiple multi-region access points. So you can, you can failover from one access from one region to another. What kind of challenges does that present to you as a backup provider? >> I don't think it represents any challenges. When we look at the native durability of the cloud, we look at availability zones, we look at multi-region failover. That is, that durability is ultimately founded on, on replication. And I wouldn't say that replication and backup, you would use one or the other. I would say that they are complimentary. So for replication, that is going to help with the failover scenario, that durability component. But then backup again is that independent copy. Because if we look at replication, if let's say the source data were to be compromised by ransomware or there was accidental deletion or corruption, that's simply going to be copied over to the target destination as well. Having that backup as an independent copy, again compliments that strategy as well. >> Paul: You need it in either, in any scenario. >> Samuel: In any scenario. >> I think the average person would probably say that backup is not the most exciting technology aspect of this industry. But, but you guys certainly made, build a great business on it. What excites you about what's coming in backup? What are the new technologies, new advancements that perhaps we haven't seen and productized yet that you think are going to change the game? >> I think actually what we offer right now is the most exciting piece which is just choice flexibility. So Veeam again is synonymous with VMware backup but we cover a multitude of environments including AWS, containerized workloads, Kubernetes physical systems and the mobility pieces is critical because as organizations look to act on their digital transformation, cloud first initiatives, they need to be able to mobilize their workloads across different infrastructures, maybe from on-premises into the cloud, one cloud to another, maybe it's cloud back to on-premises, 'cause we do also see that. That flexibility of choice is what excites me about Veeam because it's ultimately giving the users best in class data protection tool sets without any prescriptive approach from us in terms of where you should be running your workloads. That is the choice that you use. >> Yeah, Veeam is definitely more than VMware. We actually had a chance to chat with you all like KubeCon and CloudNativeCon in Detroit. So we, we've seen the multitude of things that you touch. I want to bring it back to something and something kind of fun because you talked a lot about the community and being able to serve them. It's very clear, actually I shouldn't say this, I shouldn't say it's very clear, but to me it appears clear that community is a big priority for Veeam. I just want to call this out 'cause this was one of the cooler pieces of swag. You all gave out a hundred massage guns. Okay, very hot topic. Hot Christmas gift for 2022. I feel like Vanna White right now. And, but I thought that I was actually really compelled by this because we do a swag segment on theCUBE but it's not just about the objects or getting stuff. It's really about who's looking out for their community and how are they saying thanks. I mean, swag is a brand activation but it's also a thank you and I loved that you were giving out massage guns to the AWS Heroes and Community Builders. >> Yep. >> What role does community play in the culture and the product development at Veeam? >> So community has always been at the heart of Veeam. If you have a look at pretty much every single development across all of our versions, across all of our products it's always did by the community, right? We have a wonderful Veeam forum where we got 400,000 plus users actively providing feedback on the product what they would like to see. And that is ultimately what steers the direction of the product. Of course market trends and technology chain. >> A couple other factors, I'm sure. >> A couple of other factors, but community is huge for us. And the same goes for AWS. So, you know, talking with the AWS Heroes, the Community Builders helps Veeam reach further into that, into that community and the AWS user base and empower those folks with data protection tools and massage guns, when your feet are tired from, you know, being standing on them all day in Vegas. >> (laughs) Yeah, well, I mean, everybody, everybody's working hard and it's nice to say, it's nice to say, thank you. So I love, I love to hear that and it's, it's clear from the breadth of products that you're creating, the ways that you're supporting your customers that you already, they care a lot about community. We have a new challenge on theCUBE this year at AWS re:Invent. Think of it as an Instagram reel of your thought leadership, your hot take on the show, key themes as we look into 2023. What do you think is the most important story or trend or thing going on here at the show? >> I think it's just the continuation of cybersecurity and the importance of backup as a comprehensive cybersecurity strategy. You know, some folks might say that secure backup is your last line of defense. Again, ransomware is relentless. These folks are going to keep coming and even if they're successful, it's not a one and done thing. It's going to happen again and again and again. So, you know, we have a look around the show floor, the presentations there is a huge cybersecurity focus and really just what folks should be doing as their best practice to secure their AWS environments. >> That's awesome. Well, Paul, any final, any final thoughts or questions? >> I just quickly, you've mentioned data security, you mentioned data protection and backup sort of interchangeably but they're not really the same thing, are they? I mean, what businesses do you see Veeam as being here? >> I would say that we are a data protection company because of, yes, there is backup, but there's also the replication component. There's the continuous data protection component where we've got, you know, near-zero RTOs and then we again look at the cybersecurity components of that. What can we do to really protect that data? So I would say that the two are different. Backup is a subset of data protection. >> Sam, thank you so much for being here with us on theCUBE. It's been a super insightful conversation. Hopefully we'll get you back soon and more of the teams, there seem to be celebrities here with us on theCUBE. Paul Gillan, thank you so much for being here with me. >> Pleasure Savannah. >> And I'm glad we get to celebrate our first re:Invent and most importantly, thank you to the audience for tuning in. Without you, we don't get to hang out here in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada, where we're live from the show floor at AWS re:Invent. My name is Savannah Peterson with Paul Gillan. We're theCUBE and we are the leading source for high-tech coverage. (bright music)

(dramatic wooshing) >> Hello, and I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Check out the upcoming Season 2, Episode 4 AWS Startup Showcase featuring Cybersecurity. We got 10 hot growing startups. We got keynote from Jon Ramsey, Vice President of AWS Security, as well as amazing Heroes, AWS Cloud Heroes in security, Liz Rice, and we've got some amazing, talented people sharing their insights. Here on theCUBE, every episode is a new topic. This topic is cybersecurity. Check it out. It's an ongoing series. It's the hottest startups in the ecosystem of AWS, Amazon Web Services. It's theCUBE.

(gentle upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to theCUBE presentation of the AWS Startup Showcase Open Cloud Innovations. This is season two episode one of an ongoing series covering setting status from the AWS ecosystem. Talking about innovation, here it's open source for this theme. We do this every episode, we pick a theme and have a lot of fun talking to the leaders in the industry and the hottest startups. I'm your host John Furrier here with Lisa Martin in our Palo Alto studios. Lisa great series, great to see you again. >> Good to see you too. Great series, always such spirited conversations with very empowered and enlightened individuals. >> I love the episodic nature of these events, we get more stories out there than ever before. They're the hottest startups in the AWS ecosystem, which is dominating the cloud sector. And there's a lot of them really changing the game on cloud native and the enablement, the stories that are coming out here are pretty compelling, not just from startups they're actually penetrating the enterprise and the buyers are changing their architectures, and it's just really fun to catch the wave here. >> They are, and one of the things too about the open source community is these companies embracing that and how that's opening up their entry to your point into the enterprise. I was talking with several customers, companies who were talking about the 70% of their pipeline comes from the open source community. That's using the premium version of the technology. So, it's really been a very smart, strategic way into the enterprise. >> Yeah, and I love the format too. We get the keynote we're doing now, opening keynote, some great guests. We have Sir John on from AWS started program, he is the global startups lead. We got Swami coming on and then closing keynote with Deepak Singh. Who's really grown in the Amazon organization from containers now, compute services, which now span how modern applications are being built. And I think the big trend that we're seeing that these startups are riding on that big wave is cloud natives driving the modern architecture for software development, not just startups, but existing, large ISV and software companies are rearchitecting and the customers who buy their products and services in the cloud are rearchitecting too. So, it's a whole new growth wave coming in, the modern era of cloud some say, and it's exciting a small startup could be the next big name tomorrow. >> One of the things that kind of was a theme throughout the conversations that I had with these different guests was from a modern application security perspective is, security is key, but it's not just about shifting lab. It's about doing so empowering the developers. They don't have to be security experts. They need to have a developer brain and a security heart, and how those two organizations within companies can work better together, more collaboratively, but ultimately empowering those developers, which goes a long way. >> Well, for the folks who are watching this, the format is very simple. We have a keynote, editorial keynote speakers come in, and then we're going to have a bunch of companies who are going to present their story and their showcase. We've interviewed them, myself, you Dave Vallante and Dave Nicholson from theCUBE team. They're going to tell their stories and between the companies and the AWS heroes, 14 companies are represented and some of them new business models and Deepak Singh who leads the AWS team, he's going to have the closing keynote. He talks about the new changing business model in open source, not just the tech, which has a lot of tech, but how companies are being started around the new business models around open source. It's really, really amazing. >> I bet, and does he see any specific verticals that are taking off? >> Well, he's seeing the contribution from big companies like AWS and the Facebook's of the world and large companies, Netflix, Intuit, all contributing content to the open source and then startups forming around them. So Netflix does some great work. They donated to open source and next thing you know a small group of people get together entrepreneurs, they form a company and they create a platform around it with unification and scale. So, the cloud is enabling this new super application environment, superclouds as we call them, that's emerging and this new supercloud and super applications are scaling data-driven machine learning and AI that's the new formula for success. >> The new formula for success also has to have that velocity that developers expect, but also that the consumerization of tech has kind of driven all of us to expect things very quickly. >> Well, we're going to bring in Serge Shevchenko, AWS Global Startup program into the program. Serge is our partner. He is the leader at AWS who has been working on this program Serge, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, likewise, John, thank you for having me very excited to be here. >> We've been working together on collaborating on this for over a year. Again, season two of this new innovative program, which is a combination of CUBE Media partnership, and AWS getting the stories out. And this has been a real success because there's a real hunger to discover content. And then in the marketplace, as these new solutions coming from startups are the next big thing coming. So, you're starting to see this going on. So I have to ask you, first and foremost, what's the AWS startup showcase about. Can you explain in your terms, your team's vision behind it, and why those startup focus? >> Yeah, absolutely. You know John, we curated the AWS Startup Showcase really to bring meaningful and oftentimes educational content to our customers and partners highlighting innovative solutions within these themes and ultimately to help customers find the best solutions for their use cases, which is a combination of AWS and our partners. And really from pre-seed to IPO, John, the world's most innovative startups build on AWS. From leadership downward, very intentional about cultivating vigorous AWS community and since 2019 at re:Invent at the launch of the AWS Global Startup program, we've helped hundreds of startups accelerate their growth through product development support, go to market and co-sell programs. >> So Serge question for you on the theme of today, John mentioned our showcases having themes. Today's theme is going to cover open source software. Talk to us about how Amazon thinks about opensource. >> Sure, absolutely. And I'll just touch on it briefly, but I'm very excited for the keynote at the end of today, that will be delivered by Deepak the VP of compute services at AWS. We here at Amazon believe in open source. In fact, Amazon contributes to open source in multiple ways, whether that's through directly contributing to third-party project, repos or significant code contributions to Kubernetes, Rust and other projects. And all the way down to leadership participation in organizations such as the CNCF. And supporting of dozens of ISV myself over the years, I've seen explosive growth when it comes to open source adoption. I mean, look at projects like Checkov, within 12 months of launching their open source project, they had about a million users. And another great example is Falco within, under a decade actually they've had about 37 million downloads and that's about 300% increase since it's become an incubating project in the CNCF. So, very exciting things that we're seeing here at AWS. >> So explosive growth, lot of content. What do you hope that our viewers and our guests are going to be able to get out of today? >> Yeah, great question, Lisa. I really hope that today's event will help customers understand why AWS is the best place for them to run open source, commercial and which partner solutions will help them along their journey. I think that today the lineup through the partner solutions and Deepak at the end with the ending keynote is going to present a very valuable narrative for customers and startups in selecting where and which projects to run on AWS. >> That's great stuff Serge would love to have you on and again, I want to just say really congratulate your team and we enjoy working with them. We think this showcase does a great service for the community. It's kind of open source in its own way if I can co contributing working on out there, but you're really getting the voices out at scale. We've got companies like Armory, Kubecost, Sysdig, Tidelift, Codefresh. I mean, these are some of the companies that are changing the game. We even had Patreon a customer and one of the partners sneak with security, all the big names in the startup scene. Plus AWS Deepak saying Swami is going to be on the AWS Heroes. I mean really at scale and this is really a great. So, thank you so much for participating and enabling all of this. >> No, thank you to theCUBE. You've been a great partner in this whole process, very excited for today. >> Thanks Serge really appreciate it. Lisa, what a great segment that was kicking off the event. We've got a great lineup coming up. We've got the keynote, final keynote fireside chat with Deepak Singh a big name at AWS, but Serge in the startup showcase really innovative. >> Very innovative and in a short time period, he talked about the launch of this at re:Invent 2019. They've helped hundreds of startups. We've had over 50 I think on the showcase in the last year or so John. So we really gotten to cover a lot of great customers, a lot of great stories, a lot of great content coming out of theCUBE. >> I love the openness of it. I love the scale, the storytelling. I love the collaboration, a great model, Lisa, great to work with you. We also Dave Vallante and Dave Nicholson interview. They're not here, but let's kick off the show. Let's get started with our next guest Swami. The leader at AWS Swami just got promoted to VP of the database, but also he ran machine learning and AI at AWS. He is a leader. He's the author of the original DynamoDB paper, which is celebrating its 10th year anniversary really impacted distributed computing and open source. Swami's introduced many opensource aspects of products within AWS and has been a leader in the engineering side for many, many years at AWS, from an intern to now an executive. Swami, great to see you. Thanks for coming on our AWS startup showcase. Thanks for spending the time with us. >> My pleasure, thanks again, John. Thanks for having me. >> I wanted to just, if you don't mind asking about the database market over the past 10 to 20 years cloud and application development as you see, has changed a lot. You've been involved in so many product launches over the years. Cloud and machine learning are the biggest waves happening to your point to what you're doing now. Software is under the covers it's powering it all infrastructure is code. Open source has been a big part of it and it continues to grow and change. Deepak Singh from AWS talks about the business model transformation of how like Netflix donates to the open source. Then a company starts around it and creates more growth. Machine learnings and all the open source conversations around automation as developers and builders, like software as cloud and machine learning become the key pistons in the engine. This is a big wave, what's your view on this? How how has cloud scale and data impacting the software market? >> I mean, that's a broad question. So I'm going to break it down to kind of give some of the back data. So now how we are thinking about it first, I'd say when it comes to the open source, I'll start off by saying first the longevity and by ability of open sources are very important to our customers and that is why we have been a significant contributor and supporter of these communities. I mean, there are several efforts in open source, even internally by actually open sourcing some of our key Amazon technologies like Firecracker or BottleRocket or our CDK to help advance the industry. For example, CDK itself provides some really powerful way to build and configure cloud services as well. And we also contribute to a lot of different open source projects that are existing ones, open telemetries and Linux, Java, Redis and Kubernetes, Grafana and Kafka and Robotics Operating System and Hadoop, Leucine and so forth. So, I think, I can go on and on, but even now I'd say the database and observability space say machine learning we have always started with embracing open source in a big material way. If you see, even in deep learning framework, we championed MX Linux and some of the core components and we open sourced our auto ML technology auto Glue on, and also be open sourced and collaborated with partners like Facebook Meta on Fighter showing some major components and there, and then we are open search Edge Compiler. So, I would say the number one thing is, I mean, we are actually are very, very excited to partner with broader community on problems that really mattered to the customers and actually ensure that they are able to get amazing benefit of this. >> And I see machine learning is a huge thing. If you look at how cloud group and when you had DynamoDB paper, when you wrote it, that that was the beginning of, I call the cloud surge. It was the beginning of not just being a resource versus building a data center, certainly a great alternative. Every startup did it. That's history phase one inning and a half, first half inning. Then it became a large scale. Machine learning feels like the same way now. You feel like you're seeing a lot of people using it. A lot of people are playing around with it. It's evolving. It's been around as a science, but combined with cloud scale, this is a big thing. What should people who are in the enterprise think about how should they think about machine learning? How has some of your top customers thought about machine learning as they refactor their applications? What are some of the things that you can share from your experience and journey here? >> I mean, one of the key things I'd say just to set some context on scale and numbers. More than one and a half million customers use our database analytics or ML services end-to-end. Part of which machine learning services and capabilities are easily used by more than a hundred thousand customers at a really good scale. However, I still think in Amazon, we tend to use the phrase, "It's day one in the age of internet," even though it's an, or the phrase, "Now, but it's a golden one," but I would say in the world of machine learning, yes it's day one but I also think we just woke up and we haven't even had a cup of coffee yet. That's really that early, so. And, but when you it's interesting, you've compared it to where cloud was like 10, 12 years ago. That's early days when I used to talk to engineering leaders who are running their own data center and then we talked about cloud and various disruptive technologies. I still used to get a sense about like why cloud and basic and whatnot at that time, Whereas now with machine learning though almost every CIO, CEO, all of them never asked me why machine learning. Instead, the number one question, I get is, how do I get started with it? What are the best use cases? which is great, and this is where I always tell them one of the learnings that we actually learned in Amazon. So again, a few years ago, probably seven or eight years ago, and Amazon itself realized as a company, the impact of what machine learning could do in terms of changing how we actually run our business and what it means to provide better customer experience optimize our supply chain and so far we realized that the we need to help our builders learn machine learning and the help even our business leaders understand the power of machine learning. So we did two things. One, we actually, from a bottom-up level, we built what I call as machine learning university, which is run in my team. It's literally stocked with professors and teachers who offer curriculum to builders so that they get educated on machine learning. And now from a top-down level we also, in our yearly planning process, we call it the operational planning process where we write Amazon style narratives six pages and then answer FAQ's. We asked everyone to answer one question around, like how do you plan to leverage machine learning in your business? And typically when someone says, I really don't play into our, it does not apply. It's usually it doesn't go well. So we kind of politely encourage them to do better and come back with a better answer. This kind of dynamic on top-down and bottom-up, changed the conversation and we started seeing more and more measurable growth. And these are some of the things you're starting to see more and more among our customers too. They see the business benefit, but this is where to address the talent gap. We also made machine learning university curriculum actually now open source and freely available. And we launched SageMaker Studio Lab, which is a no cost, no set up SageMaker notebook service for educating learner profiles and all the students as well. And we are excited to also announce AIMLE scholarship for underrepresented students as well. So, so much more we can do well. >> Well, congratulations on the DynamoDB paper. That's the 10 year anniversary, which is a revolutionary product, changed the game that did change the world and that a huge impact. And now as machine learning goes to the next level, the next intern out there is at school with machine learning. They're going to be writing that next paper, your advice to them real quick. >> My biggest advice is, always, I encourage all the builders to always dream big, and don't be hesitant to speak your mind as long as you have the right conviction saying you're addressing a real customer problem. So when you feel like you have an amazing solution to address a customer problem, take the time to articulate your thoughts better, and then feel free to speak up and communicate to the folks you're working with. And I'm sure any company that nurtures good talent and knows how to hire and develop the best they will be willing to listen and then you will be able to have an amazing impact in the industry. >> Swami, great to know you're CUBE alumni love our conversations from intern on the paper of DynamoDB to the technical leader at AWS and database analyst machine learning, congratulations on all your success and continue innovating on behalf of the customers and the industry. Thanks for spending the time here on theCUBE and our program, appreciate it. >> Thanks again, John. Really appreciate it. >> Okay, now let's kick off our program. That ends the keynote track here on the AWS startup showcase. Season two, episode one, enjoy the program and don't miss the closing keynote with Deepak Singh. He goes into great detail on the changing business models, all the exciting open source innovation. (gentle bright music)

(upbeat music) >> Good afternoon and welcome back to Las Vegas. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of AWS 2021. My name is Dave Vellante. theCUBE goes out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. Very few physical events this year doing a lot of hybrid stuff. It's great to be back in hybrid event... Physical event land, 25,000 people here. Probably a little few more registered than that. And then on the periphery, got to be another at least 10,000 people that came in, flew in and out, see what's happening. A bunch of VCs, checking things out, a few parties last night and so forth. A lot of action here. It's like re:Invent is back. Matt Coulter is here. He's a technical architect at Liberty Mutual. Matt, thanks for flying in from Belfast. Good to see ya. >> Dave, and thanks for having me today. >> Pleasure. So what's your role as a technical architect? Maybe describe that, we'll get into a little bit. >> Yeah so I am here to empower and enable our developers across the globe to rapidly deliver business value and solve problems for our customers in a well-architected way that doesn't introduce problems or risks, you know, later down the line. So instead of thinking of me as someone who directly every day, build software, I try to create the environment where other people can rapidly build software. >> That's, you know, it's interesting. because you're a developer, right? You can use like, "Hey I code." That's what normally you would say but you're actually creating frameworks and business model so that others can learn, teach them how to fish, so we speak. >> Yeah because I can only scale, there's a certain amount. Whereas if I can teach, there's 5,000 people in Liberty Mutual's tech organization. So if I can teach the 5,000 to be 5% better, it's way more than me even if I 10Xed >> When did you first touch the Cloud? >> Personally, it would have been four/five years ago. That's when I started in the Cloud. >> What was that experience like for you? >> Oh, it was hard. It was very different to anything that we'd done in the past. So it's because you... Traditionally, you would have just written your small piece of code. You would have had a big application that was out there, it had been out there maybe 20 years, it was deployed, and you were just adding a couple of lines. Whereas when you start putting stuff into the Cloud, it's out there. It's on the internet for anyone there to try and hack or try to get into. It was a bit overwhelming the amount that you needed to learn. So it was- >> Was it worth it? >> Oh yeah. Completely. (laughing) So that's the thing, that I would never go back to the way we did things before. And that's why I'm so passionate, enthusiastic about the stuff I've been doing. Because to me, the amount of benefits you can get, like now we can deliver thing. We have teams going out there and doing discovery and framing with the business. And they're pushing well-architected products three days later into production. That was unheard of before, you know, this year. >> Yeah. So you were part of Werner's keynote this morning. Of course that's always one of the keynotes that's most anticipated at re:Invent. It's on the sort of last day. He's awesome. This is you know, 10th year of re:Invent. He sort of did a look back. He started out (chuckles) he's just a cool guy and very passionate. But talk about what your role was in the keynote. >> Yeah so I had a section towards the end of the keynote, and I was to talk about Liberty Mutual's serverless first journey. I actually went through from 2014 through to the current day of all the major Cloud milestones that we've hit. And I talked through some of the impact it's had on our business and the impact it's had on our developers. And yeah it's just been this incredible journey where as I said, it was hard at the start. So we had to spark this culture within our company that we were going to empower and enable our developers and we were going to get them excited about doing this. And that's why we needed to make it safe. So there was a lot of work went down at the start to make the Cloud safe for our developers to experiment. And then the past two years have been known that it's safe, okay? Let's see what it can do. Let's go. >> Yeah so Liberty Mutual has been around many many years, Boston-based, you know, East Coast-based, my home city. I don't live in Boston but I consider it my city. And so talk about your business a little bit because you're an established company. I don't know, probably a hundred years old, right? Any all other newbies nipping at your business, right? Coming in with low-cost products. Maybe not bringing as much protection as you dig into it. But regardless, you've got to compete with them technically. So what are some of the drivers in your business and how are you using the Cloud to sort of defend your turf and grow? >> Yeah so first of all, we're 109 years old. (laughing) Yeah. So absolutely, there's an entire insurtech market of people here gunning for the big Liberty Mutual because we've been here for so long. And our whole thing is we're focused on our customers. So we want to be there for people in their time of need. Because at a point in time whenever you need insurance, typically something is going wrong. And that's why we're building innovative solutions like a serverless call center we built, that after natural disaster, it can automatically process claims in less than four minutes. So instead of having to wait on hold for maybe an hour, you can just text or pick up the phone, and four minutes later your claims are through. And that's we're using technology always focused on the customer. >> That's unbelievable. Think about that experience, to me. I mean I've filed claims before and it's, it's kind of time consuming. And you're saying you've compressed that to minutes? Days, weeks, you know, and now you've compressed that to minutes? >> Yeah. >> Tell us more about how you did that. >> And that's because it's a fully serverless solution that was built. So it doesn't require like people to scale. It can scale to whatever number of our customers need to make a claim at that point because that would typically be the bottleneck if there's some kind of natural disaster. So that means that if something happens we can just switch it on. And customers can choose not to use it. You can always choose to say I want to speak to a person. But now with this technology, we can just make it easy and just go. Everything, all the information we know in the back end, we just use it and actually make things better for you. >> You're talking about the impact that it had on your business and developers. So how do you quantify that? Maybe start with the business. Maybe share some ways in which you look at that measure. >> Yeah, so I mean, in terms of how we measure the impact of the Cloud on our business, we're always looking at our profitability and we're always looking, as I say, at our customers. And ideally, I want our Cloud bill to go down as our number of customers goes up because that's why we're using the serverless fast mindset, we call it. We don't want to build anything we don't have to build. We want to take the best that's out there and just piece it together and produce these products for our customers. So yeah, that's having an impact on our business because now developers aren't spending weeks, months, years doing all this configuration. And they can actually sit down with the business and understand how we write insurance. So now we can start being innovative with our products and talking about the real business instead of everything else. >> When you say you want your Cloud bill to go down, you know, it reminds me like in the old days of IT budgeting, right? It was always slash, do more with less cut, cut, cut, right? And it was kind of going in cycles. But with the Cloud a lot of customers that I talk to, they were like, might be going down as a percentage of revenues but actually it might be going up as you launch more projects because they're driving revenue. There's a tighter tie between revenue and Cloud bill. How do you look at that? >> Yeah. So I mean, with every project, you have to look at the worth-based development often and whether or not it's going to hold this away in the market. And the key thing is with the serverless products that are being released now, they cost pennies if they're low scale. So you can actually launch a new product into the market and it maybe only cost you $20 to see if that thing would fit in the market. So by the time you're getting into the big bills you know whether or not you've got a market fit and you can decide whether you want to pivot. >> Oh wow. So you you've compressed, that's another business metric. You've compressed the time to get certainty around product market fit, right? Which is huge because you really can't go to market until you have product market fit (laughing) >> Exactly. You have to be. Thoroughly understand if it's going to work. >> Right because if you go to the market and you've got 50% churn. (laughing) Well, you don't want to be worried about the go-to market. You got to get back to the product so you can test that and you can generate. >> So that's why, yeah, As I said, we have developers who can go out and do discovery and framing on a potential product and deliver it three days later which (chuckles) >> How has the Cloud effected developer satisfaction or passion? I guess it's... I mean we're in AWS Cloud. Our developers, we tell them "Okay, you got to go back on-prem." They would say, "I quit." (laughing) How has it affected their lives? >> Yeah it's completely there for them, it's way better. So now we have way more ownership over any, you know, of everything we ever did. So it feels like you're truly a part of Liberty Mutual and you're solving Liberty's problems now. Because it's not a case of like, "Okay, let's put in a request to stand up a server, it's going to take six months. And then let's do some big long acquisition." It's a case of like, "Let's actually get done into the nitty gritty of what we going to build." And that's- >> How do you use the Cloud developer kit? Maybe you could talk about that. I mean, explain what it is. It's a framework. But explain from your perspective. >> Yeah so the Cloud typically, it started off, and lot of it was done by Cloud infrastructure engineers who created these big YAML files. That's how they defined all the stuff that's going to be deployed. But that's not typically the development language that most developers use. The CDK is in like Java, TypeScript, .NET, Python. The language is developers ready known love. And it means that they can use everything they already know from all of their previous development experience and bring it to the Cloud. And you see some benefits like, you get, I talked about this morning, a 1500 line YAML file was reduced to 14 lines of TypeScript. And that's what we're talking about with the cognitive difference for a developer using CDK versus anything else. >> Cognitive abstraction, >> Right? >> Yeah. And so it just simplifies your living and you spend more time doing cool stuff. >> Yeah we can write an abstraction for our specific needs once. And then everybody can use that abstraction. And if we want to make a change and make it better, everyone benefits instead of everybody doing the same thing all the time. >> So for people who are unfamiliar, what do you need? You need an AWS account, obviously. You got to get a command-line interface, I would imagine. maybe some Node.js often running, or is it- >> Yeah. So that's it. You need an AWS account, and then you need to install CDK, which is from Node Package Manager. And then from there, it depends on which way you want to start. You could use my project CDK patterns, has a whole ray of working patterns that you can clone among commands. You just have to type, like one command you've got a pattern, and then CDK deploy. And you'll have something working. >> Okay so what do you do day-to-day? You sort of, you evangelize folks to come in and get trained? Is there just like a backlog of people that want your time? How do you manage that? >> So I try to be the place that I'm needed the most based on impact of the business. And that's why I try to go in. Liberty split up into different areas and I try to go into those areas, understand where they are versus where they need to be. And then if I can do that across everywhere, you can see the common thesis. And then I can see where I can have the most impact across the board instead of focusing on one micro place. So there's a variety of tools and techniques that I would do, you know, to go through that but that's the crux of it. >> So you look at your business across the portfolio, so you have portfolio view. And then you do a gap analysis essentially, say "Okay, where can I approach this framework and technology from a developer standpoint, add value? >> Yeah like I could go into every single team with every single project, draw it all out and like, what we call Wardley map, and then you can draw a line and then say "Everything blue in this line is undifferentiated, heavy-lifted. I want you to migrate that. And here's how you're going to do it I've already built the tools for that." And that's how we can drive those conversations. >> So, you know, it's funny, I spent a lot of time in the insurance business not in the business but consulting with heads of application development and looking at portfolios. And you know, they did their thing. But you know, a lot of people sort of question, "Can developers in an insurance company actually become cool Cloud native developers?" You're doing it, right? So that's going to be an amazing transformation for your colleagues and your industry. And it's happening as we look around here (indistinct) >> And that's the thing, in Liberty I'm not the only one. So there's Tommy Gloklin, he's an AWS hero, and there's Diali Mikan, who's an AWS hero. And Diali is in Workgrid but we're still all the same family. >> So what does it mean to be an AWS hero? >> Yeah so this is something that AWS has to offer you to join. So basically, it's about impacting the community. It's not... There's not like a checklist of items you can go through and you're hero. It's you have to be nominated internally through AWS, and then you have to have the right intentions. And yeah, just follow through. >> Dave: That's awesome. Yeah so our producer, Lynette, is looking for an Irish limerick. You know, every, say I'm half Irish is through my marriage. Dad, you didn't know that, did you? And every year we have a St Patrick's Day party and my daughter comes up with limericks. So I don't know, if you have one that you want to share. If you don't, that's fine. >> I have no limericks for now. I'm so sorry. (laughing) >> There once was a producer from, where are you from? (laughing) So where do you want to take this, Matt? What's your future look like with this program? >> So right now, today, I actually launched a book called the CDK book. >> Dave: Really? Awesome. >> Yeah So me and three other heroes got together and put everything we know about CDK and distilled it into one book. But the... I mean there's two sides, there's inside Liberty. The goal as I've mentioned is to get our developers to the point that they're talking about real insurance problems rather than tech. And then outside Liberty in the community the goal is things like CDK Day, which is a global conference that I created and run. And I want to just grow those farther and farther throughout the world so that eventually we can start learning you know, cross business, cross market, cross the main instead of just internally one company. >> It's impressive how tuned in you are to the business. Do you feel like the Cloud almost forces that alignment? >> It does. It definitely does. Because when you move quickly, you need to understand what you're doing. You can't bluff almost, you know. Like everything you're building you're demonstrating that every two weeks or faster. So you need to know the business to do it. >> Well, Matt, congratulations on all the great work that you've done and the keynote this morning. You know, true tech hero. We really appreciate your time coming in theCUBE. >> Thank you, Dave, for having me. >> Our pleasure. And thank you for watching. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE at AWS re:Invent. We are the leader global tech coverage. We'll be right back. (light upbeat music)

[Music] and y'all know that these [Music] ladies and gentlemen please take your seats and silence your cellphone's our program will begin shortly ladies and gentlemen please welcome Red Hat executive vice president and chief people officer dallisa Alexander an executive vice president and chief marketing officer Tim Layton [Music] hi everyone we're so excited to kick off this afternoon day 2 at the Red Hat summit we've got a stage full of stories about people making amazing contributions with open source well you know dallisa you and I both been coming to this event for a long long time so what keeps you coming back well you know the summit started as a tech conference an amazing tech conference but now it's expanded to be so much more this year I'm really thrilled that we're able to showcase the power of open source going way beyond the data center and beyond the cloud and I'm here also on a secret mission oh yes I'm here to make sure you don't make too many bad dad jokes so there's no such thing as a bad dad they're just dad jokes are supposed to be bad but I promise to keep it to my limit but I do have one okay I may appeal to the geeks in the audience okay so what do you call a serving tray full of empty beer cans yeah we container platform well that is your one just the one that's what I only got a budget of one all right well you know I have to say though in all seriousness I'm with you yeah I've been coming to the summit since its first one and I always love to hear what new directions people are scoring what ideas they're pursuing and the perspectives they bring and this afternoon for example you're gonna hear a host of different perspectives from a lot of voices you wouldn't often see on a technology mainstage in our industry and it's all part of our open source series live and I have to say there's been a lot of good buzz about this session all week and I'm truly honored and inspired to be able to introduce them all later this afternoon I can tell you over the course the last few weeks I've spent time with all of them and every single one of them is brilliant they're an innovator they're fearless and they will restore your faith in the next generation you know I can't wait to see all these stories all of that and we've got some special guests that are surprised in store for us you know one of the things that I love about the people that are coming on the stage today with us is that so many of them teach others how to code and they're also bringing more people that are very different in to our open-source communities helping our community is more innovative and impactful and speaking of innovative and impactful that's the purpose of our open brand project right that's right we're actually in the process of exploring a refresh of our mark and we'd really like your help as well because we're doing this all in the open we've we've been doing it already in the open and so please join us in our feedback zone booth at the summit to tell us what you think now it's probably obvious but I'm big into Red Hat swag I've got the shirt I've got my pen I've got the socks so this is really important to me personally especially that when my 15 year old daughter sees me in my full regalia she calls me adorable okay that joke was fed horrible as you're done it wasn't it wasn't like I got way more well Tim thanks for helping us at this stage for today it's time to get started with our first guest all right I'll be back soon thank you the people I'm about to bring on the stage are making outstanding contributions to open source in new and brave ways they are the winners of the 2018 women and open source Awards the women in open source awards was created to highlight the contributions that women are making to open source and to inspire new generations to join the movement our judges narrowed down the panel a very long list just ten finalists and then the community selected our two winners that were honoring today let's learn a little bit more about them [Music] a lot of people assume because of my work that I must be a programmer engineer when in fact I specifically chose and communications paths for my career but what's fascinating to me is I was able to combine my love of Communications and helping people with technology and interesting ways I'm able to not be bound by the assumptions that everybody has about what the technology can and should be doing and can really ask the question of what if it could be different I always knew I wanted to be in healthcare just because I feel like has the most impact in helping people a lot of what I've been working on is geared towards developing technology and the health space towards developing world one of the coolest things about open-source is bringing people together working with other people to accomplish amazing things there's so many different projects that you could get involved in you don't even have to be the smartest person to be able to make impact when you're actually developing for someone I think it's really important to understand the need when you're pushing innovation forward sometimes the cooler thing is not [Music] for both of us to have kind of a health care focus I think it's cool because so many people don't think about health care as being something that open-source can contribute to it took a while for it to even get to the stage where it is now where people can open-source develop on concepts and health and it's an untapped potential to moving the world for this award is really about highlighting the work of dozens of women and men in this open source community that have made this project possible so I'm excited for more people to kind of turn their open-source interest in healthcare exciting here is just so much [Music] I am so honored to be able to welcome to the stage some brilliant women and opensource first one of our esteemed judges Denise Dumas VP of software engineering at Red Hat she's going to come up and share her insights on the judging process Denise so you've been judging since the very beginning 2015 what does this judge this being a judge represents you what does the award mean to you you know every year it becomes more and more challenging to select the women an opensource winner because every year we get more nominees and the quality of the submissions well there are women involved in so many fabulous projects so the things that I look for are the things that I value an open source initiative using technology to solve real world problems a work ethic that includes sin patches and altruism and I think that you'll see that this year's nominees this year's winners really epitomize those qualities totally agree shall we bring them on let's bring them on let's welcome to the stage Zoe de gay and Dana Lewis [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] alright let's take a seat [Applause] well you both have had an interesting path to open-source zuy you're a biomedical engineering student any of it you have a degree in public relations tell us what led to your involvement and open source yeah so coming to college I was new I was interested in science but I didn't want to be a medical doctor and I didn't want to get involved in wet lab research so through classes I was taking oh that's why I did biomedical engineering and through classes I was taking I found the classroom to be very dry and I didn't know how how can I apply what I'm learning and so I got involved in a lot of entrepreneurship on campus and through one of the projects I was asked to build a front end and I had no idea how to go about doing that and I had some basic rudimentary coding knowledge and what happened was I got and was digging deep and then found an open source library that was basically building a similar thing that I needed and that was where I learned about open source and I went from there now I'm really excited to be able to contribute to many communities and work on a variety of projects amazing contributions Dana tell us about your journey well I come from a non-traditional background but I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 14 and over the next couple years got really frustrated with the limitations of my own diabetes devices but felt like I couldn't change them because that wasn't my job as a patient but it was actually through social media I discovered someone who had solved one of the problems that I had been found having which was getting date off my diabetes device and that's how I learned about open source was when he was willing to share his code with me so when we turned around and made this hybrid closed-loop artificial pancreas system it was a no brainer to make our work open source as well that's right absolutely and we see using the hash tag we are not waiting can you tell us about that yeah so this hash tag was created actually before I even discovered the open source diabetes world but I loved it because it really illustrates exactly the fact that we have this amazing technology in our hands in our pockets and we can solve some of our most common problems so yes you could wait but waiting is now a choice with open source we have the ability to solve some of our hardest problems even problems dealing with life and death that's great so zuy with the vaccine carrier system that you helped to build how were you able to identify the need and where did you build it yes so I think before you even build anything first need to understand what is the problem that you're trying to solve and that really was the case when starting this project I got to collaborate with engineers in Kampala Uganda and travel there and actually interview stakeholders in the medical field medical doctors as well as pharmaceutical companies and from there I really got to understand the health system there as well as what is how do vaccines enter the country and how can we solve this problem and that's how we came up with the solution for an IOT based vaccine carrier tracking system I think it's really important especially today when products might be flashy to also understand what is the need behind it and how do we solve problems with these products yeah yeah it's so interesting how both of you have this interest in health care Dana how do you see open-source playing a role in healthcare but first before you answer that tell us about your shirt so this shirt has the code of my artificial pancreas on it and I love it as an illustration of no thank you I love it as an illustration of how open-source is more than we think it is I've just been blown away by the contributions of people in my open-source communities and I think that that is what we should apply to all of healthcare there's a lot of tools and technologies that are solving real world problems and I think if we take what we know in technology and apply it to healthcare we'll solve a lot of problems more quickly but it really needs to be recognizing everything an open source it's the documentation it's the collaboration it's the problem-solving it's working together to take technologies that we didn't previously think we're applicable and finding new ways to apply it it's a great answer Sooey yeah I think especially where healthcare is related to people and open-source is the right way to collaborate with people all over the world especially in the project I've been working on we're looking at vaccines in Uganda but the same system can be applied in any other country and then you can look at cross countries health systems there and from there it becomes bigger and bigger and I think it's really important for people who have an idea and want to take it further to know that open-source is a way that you could actually take your idea further whether you have a technical background or not so yeah stories are amazing you're just an inspiration for everyone in open-source I want to thank you so much for joining us here today let's give another round of applause to our winners [Applause] [Music] you know the tagline for the award is honor celebrate inspire and I feel like we've been doing that today very very well and I know that so many people have been inspired today especially the next generation who go on to do things we can't even dream of yet [Music] I think collabs important because we need to make sure we get younger children interested in technology so that they understand the value of it but also that there are a lot of powerful women in technology and they can be one of them I hope after this experience maybe we'll get some engineers and some girls working our hot so cool right well we have some special guests convite for the club stage now I'd like to invite Tim back and also introduce Red Hat's own Jamie Chappell along with our collab students please welcome Gabby tenzen Sofia lyric Camila and a Volyn [Applause] you've been waiting for this moment for a while we're so excited hear all about your experiences but Jamie first tell us about collab sure so collab is red hats way of teaching students about the power of open source and collaboration we kicked off a little over a year ago in Boston and that was so successful that we decided to embark on an East Coast tour so in October we made stops at middle schools in New York DC and Raleigh and these amazing people over here are from that tour and this week they have gone from student to teacher so they've hosted two workshops where they have taught Red Hat summit attendees how to turn raspberry pies into digital cameras they assigned a poem song of the open road by Walt Whitman and they've been working at the open source stories booth helping to curate photos for an installation we're excited to finish up tomorrow so amazing and welcome future women in open source we want to know all about your experiences getting involved can you tell us tenzen tell us about something you've learned so during my experience with collab I learned many things but though however the ones that I valued the most were open source and women empowerment I just I was just so fascinated about how woman were creating and inventing things for the development of Technology which was really cool and I also learned about how open source OH was free and how anyone could access it and so I also learned that many people could you know add information to it so that other people could you learn from it and use it as well and during Monday's dinner I got this card saying that the world needed more people like you and I realized through my experience with collab that the world does not only need people like me but also everyone else to create great technology so ladies you know as you were working on your cameras and the coding was there a moment in time that you had an AHA experience and I'm really getting this and I can do this yes there was an aha moment because midway through I kind of figured out well this piece of the camera went this way and this piece of the camera did it go that way and I also figured out different features that were on the camera during the camera build I had to aha moments while I was making my camera the first one was during the process of making my camera where I realized I was doing something wrong and I had to collaborate with my peers in order to troubleshoot and we realize I was doing something wrong multiple times and I had to redo it and redo it but finally I felt accomplished because I finished something I worked hard on and my second aha moment was after I finished building my camera I just stared at it and I was in shock because I built something great and it was so such a nice feeling so we talked a lot about collaboration when we were at the lab tell us about how learning about collaboration in the lab is different than in school so in school collaboration is usually few and far between so when we went to collab it allowed us to develop new skills of creativity and joining our ideas with others to make something bigger and better and also allowed us to practice lots of cooperation an example of this is in my group everybody had a different problem with their pie camera and we had to use our different strengths to like help each other out and everybody ended up assembling and working PI camera great great awesome collaboration in collab and the school is very different because in collab we were more interactive more hands-on and we had to work closer together to achieve our own goals and collaboration isn't just about working together but also combining different ideas from different people to get a product that is so much better than some of its parts so girls one other interesting observation this actually may be for the benefit of the folks in our audience but out here we have represented literally hundreds and hundreds of companies all of whom are going to be actually looking for you to come to work for them after today we get first dibs that's right but um you know if you were to have a chance to speak to these companies and say what is it that they could do to help inspire you know your your friends and peers and get them excited about open source what would you say to them well I'm pretty sure we all have app store and I'm pretty sure we've all downloaded an app on that App Store well instead of us downloading app State well the computer companies or the phone companies they could give us the opportunity to program our own app and we could put it on the App Store great idea absolutely I've got to tell you I have a 15 year old daughter and I think you're all going to be an inspiration to her for the same absolutely so much so I see you brought some cameras why don't we go down and take a picture let's do it [Applause] all right I will play my very proud collab moderator role all right so one two three collab okay one two three [Applause] yeah so we're gonna let leave you and let you tell us more open source stories all right well thank you great job thank you all and enjoy the rest of your time at Summit so appreciate it thanks thank you everyone pretty awesome pretty awesome and I would just like to say they truly are fedorable that's just um so if you would like to learn more as you heard the girls say they're actually Manning our open-source stories booth at the summit you know please come down and say hello the stories you've seen thus far from our women and open-source winners as well as our co-op students are really bringing to life the theme of this year's summit the theme of ideas worth exploring and in that spirit what we'd like to do is explore another one today and that is how open-source concepts thrive and expand in the neverending organic way that they do much like the universe metaphor that you see us using here it's expanding in new perspectives and new ideas with voices beyond their traditional all starting to make open-source much bigger than what it was originally started as fact open-source goes back a long way long before actually the term existed in those early days you know in the early 80s and the like most open-source projects were sort of loosely organized collections of self-interested developers who are really trying to build low-cost more accessible replicas of commercial software yet here we are 2018 the world is completely different the open-source collaborative development model is the font of almost all original new innovation in software and they're driven from communities communities of innovation RedHat of course has been very fortunate to have been able to build an extraordinary company you know whose development model is harnessing these open-source innovations and in turning them into technologies consumable by companies even for their most mission-critical applications the theme for today though is we see open-source this open source style collaboration and innovation moving beyond just software this collaborative community innovation is starting to impact many facets of society and you're starting to see that even with the talks we've had already too and this explosion of community driven innovation you know is again akin to this universe metaphor it expands in all directions in a very organic way so for red hat you know being both beneficiaries of this approach and stewards of the open collaboration model we see it important for us to give voice to this broader view of open source stories now when we say open source in this context of course will meaning much more than just technology it's the style of collaboration the style of interaction it's the application of open source style methods to the innovation process it's all about accelerating innovation and expanding knowledge and this can be applied to a whole range of human endeavors of course in education as we just saw today on stage in agriculture in AI as the open source stories we shared at last year's summit in emerging industries like healthcare as we just saw in manufacturing even the arts all these are areas that are now starting to benefit from collaboration in driving innovation but do we see this potentially applying to almost any area of human endeavor and it expands again organically expanding existing communities with the addition of new voices and new participants catalyzing new communities and new innovations in new areas as we were talking about and even being applied inside organizations so that individual companies and teams can get the same collaborative innovation effects and most profound certainly in my perspective is so the limitless bounds that exist for how this open collaboration can start to impact some of humankind's most fundamental challenges we saw a couple of examples in fact with our women and open-source winners you know that's amazing but it also potentially is just the tip of the iceberg so we think it's important that these ideas you know as they continue to expand our best told through storytelling because it's a way that you can embrace them and find your own inspirations and that's fundamentally the vision behind our open-source stories and it's all about you know building on what's come before you know the term we use often is stay the shoulders are giants for a lot of the young people that you've seen on this stage and you're about to see on this stage you all are those giants you're the reason and an hour appears around the world are the reasons that open-source continues to expand for them you are those giants the other thing is we all particularly in this room those of us have been around open-source we have an open-source story of our own you know how were you introduced the power of open-source how did you engage a community who inspired you to participate those are all interesting elements of our personal open-source stories and in most cases each of them are punctuated by you here my question to the girls on stage an aha moment or aha moments you know that that moment of realization that enlightens you and causes you to think differently and to illustrate I'm going to spend just a few minutes sharing my open-source story for for one fundamental reason I've been in this industry for 38 years I am a living witness to the entire life of open-source going back to the early 80s I've been doing this in the open-source corner of the industry since the beginning if you've listened to Sirhan's command-line heroes podcasts my personal open story will actually be quite familiar with you because my arc is the same as the first several podcast as she talked about I'm sort of a walking history lesson in fact of open source I wound up at most of the defining moments that should have changed how we did this not that I was particularly part of the catalyst I was just there you know sort of like the Forrest Gump of open-source I was at all these historical things but I was never really sure how it went up there but it sure was interesting so with that as a little bit of context I'm just gonna share my aha moment how did I come to be you know a 59 year old in this industry for 38 years totally passionate about not just open source driving software innovation but what open source collaboration can do for Humanity so in my experience I had three aha moments I just like to share with you the first was in the early 80s and it was when I was introduced to the UNIX operating system and by the way if you have a ha moment in the 80s this is what it looks like so 1982 mustache 19 where were you 2018 beard that took a long time to do all right so as I said my first aha moment was about the technology itself in those early days of the 80s I became a product manager and what at the time was digital equipment corporation's workstation group and I was immediately drawn to UNIX I mean certainly these this is the early UNIX workstation so the user interface was cool but what I really loved was the ability to do interactive programming via the shell but by a--basically the command line and because it was my day job to help figure out where we took these technologies I was able to both work and learn and play all from the same platform so that alone was was really cool it was a very accessible platform the other thing that was interesting about UNIX is it was built with networking and and engagement in mind had its own networking stack built in tcp/ip of course and actually built in a set of services for those who've been around for a while think back to things like news groups and email lists those were the first enablers for cross internet collaboration and that was really the the elements that really spoke to me he said AHA to me that you know this technology is accessible and it lets people engage so that was my first aha moment my second aha moment came a little bit later at this point I was an executive actually running Digital Equipment Corporation UNIX systems division and it was at a time where the UNIX wars were raging right all these companies we all compartmentalized Trump those of the community and in the end it became an existential threat to the platform itself and we came to the point where we realized we needed to actually do something we needed to get ahead of this or UNIX would be doomed the particular way we came together was something called cozy but most importantly the the technique we learned was right under our noses and it was in the area of distributed computing distributed client-server computing inherently heterogenous and all these same companies that were fierce competitors at the operating system level were collaborating incredibly well around defining the generation of client-server and distributed computing technologies and it was all being done in open source under actually a BSD license initially and Microsoft was a participant Microsoft joined the open group which was the converged standards body that was driving this and they participated to ensure there was interoperability with Windows and and.net at the time now it's no spoiler alert that UNIX lost right we did but two really important things came out of that that sort of formed the basis of my second aha moment the first is as an industry we were learning how to collaborate right we were leveraging open source licenses we realized that you know these complex technologies are best done together and that was a huge epiphany for the industry at that time and the second of course is that event is what opened the door for Linux to actually solve that problem so my second aha was all about the open collaboration model works now at this point to be perfectly candidates late 1998 well we've been acquired by compacts when I'm doing the basically same role at Compaq and I really had embraced what the potential impact of this was going to be to the industry Linux was gaining traction there were a lot of open source projects emerging in distributed computing in other areas so it was pretty clear to me that the in business impact was going to be significant and and that register for me but there was seem to be a lot more to it that I hadn't really dropped yet and that's when I had my third aha moment and that was about the passion of open-source advocates the people so you know at this time I'm running a big UNIX group but we had a lot of those employees who were incredibly passionate about about Linux and open source they're actively participating so outside of working a lot of things and they were lobbying more and more for the leadership to embrace open source more directly and I have to say their passion was contagious and it eventually spread to me you know they were they were the catalyst for my personal passion and it also led me to rethink what it is we needed to go do and that's a passion that I carry forward to this day the one driven by the people and I'll tell you some interesting things many of those folks that were with us at Compaq at the time have gone on to be icons and leaders in open-source today and many of them actually are involved with with Red Hat so I'll give you a couple of names that some of whom you will know so John and Mad Dog Hall work for me at the time he was the person who wrote the first edition of Linux for dummies he did that on his own time when he was working for us he he coined he was part of the small team that coined the term open source' some other on that team that inspired me Brian Stevens and Tim Burke who wrote the first version to rent out Enterprise Linux actually they did that in Tim Burke's garage and cost Tim's still with Red Hat today two other people you've already seen him on stage today Denise Dumas and Marko bill Peter so it was those people that I was fortunate enough to work with early on who had passion for open-source and much like me they carry it forward to this day so the punchline there is they ultimately convinced us to you know embrace open-source aggressively in our strategy and one of the interesting things that we did as a company we made an equity investment in Red Hat pre-ipo and a little funny sidebar here I had to present this proposal to the compact board on investing in Red Hat which was at that time losing money hand over fist and they said well Tim how you think they're gonna make money selling free software and I said well you know I don't really know but their customers seem to love them and we need to do this and they approve the investment on the spot so you know how high do your faith and now here we are at a three billion dollar run rate of this company pretty extraordinary so from me the third and final ha was the passion of the people in the way it was contagious so so my journey my curiosity led me first to open source and then to Red Hat and it's been you know the devotion of my career for over the last thirty years and you know I think of myself as pretty literate when it comes to open source and software but I'd be the first one to admit I would have never envisioned the extent to which open source style collaboration is now being brought to bear on some of the most interesting challenges in society so the broader realization is that open source and open can really unlock the world's potential when applied in the collaborative innovative way so what about you you know you many of you particular those have been around for a while you probably have an open source story of your own for those that maybe don't or they're new to open source are new to Red Hat your open source story may be a single inspiration away it may happen here at the summit we certainly hope so it's how we build the summit to engage you you may actually find it on this stage when I bring up some of the people who are about to follow me but this is why we tell open-source stories and open source stories live so each of you hopefully has a chance to think about you know your story and how it relates over source so please take advantage of all the things that are here at the summit and and find your inspiration if you if you haven't already so next thing is you know in a spirit of our telling open source stories today we're introducing our new documentary film the science of collective discovery it's really about citizen scientists using open systems to do serious science in their backyards and environmental areas and the like we're going to preview that I'm gonna prove it preview it today and then please come see it tonight later on when we preview the whole video so let's take a look I may not have a technical scientific background but I have one thing that the scientists don't have which is I know my backyard so conventional science happens outside of public view so it's kind of in this black box so most are up in the ivory tower and what's exciting about citizen science is that it brings it out into the open we as an environmental community are engaging with the physical world every day and you need tools to do that we needed to democratize that technology we need to make it lightweight we need to make it low-cost we needed to make it open source so that we could put that technology in the hands of everyday people so they go out and make those measurements where they live and where they breathe when you first hear about an environmental organization you mostly hear about planting trees gardens things like that you don't really think about things that are really going to affect you hey we're the air be more they'd hold it in their hand making sure not to cover the intake or the exhaust I just stand here we look at the world with forensic eyes and then we build what you can't see so the approach that we're really centered on puts humans and real issues at the center of the work and I think that's the really at the core of what open source is social value that underlies all of it it really refers to sort of the rights and responsibilities that anyone on the planet has to participate in making new discoveries so really awesome and a great story and you know please come enjoy the full video so now let's get on with our open stories live speakers you're going to really love the rest of the afternoon we have three keynotes and a demo built in and I can tell you without exaggeration that when you see and hear from the young people we're about to bring forward you know it's truly inspirational and it's gonna restore totally your enthusiasm for the future because you're gonna see some of the future leaders so please enjoy our open source stories live presentation is coming and I'll be back to join you in a little bit thanks very much please welcome code newbie founder Saran yep Eric good afternoon how y'all doing today oh that was pretty weak I think you could do better than that how y'all doing today wonderful much better I'm Saran I am the founder of code newbie we have the most supportive community of programmers and people learning to code this is my very first Red Hat summits I'm super pumped super excited to be here today I'm gonna give you a talk and I'm going to share with you the key to coding progress yes and in order to do that I'm gonna have to tell you a story so two years ago I was sitting in my hotel room and I was preparing for a big talk the next morning and usually the night before I give a big talk I'm super nervous I'm anxious I'm nauseous I'm wondering why I keep doing this to myself all the speakers backstage know exactly what I'm what I'm talking about and the night before my mom knows this so she almost always calls just to check in to see how I'm doing to see how I'm feeling and she called about midnight the night before and she said how are you how are you doing are you ready and I said you know what this time I feel really good I feel confident I think I'm gonna do a great job and the reason was because two months ago I'd already given that talk in fact just a few days prior they had published the video of that talk on YouTube and I got some really really good positive feedback I got feedback from emails and DMS and Twitter and I said man I know people really like this it's gonna be great in fact that video was the most viewed video of that conference and I said to my office said you know what let's see how many people loved my talk and still the good news is that 14 people liked it and a lot more people didn't and I saw this 8 hours before I'm supposed to give that exact same talk and I said mom I gotta call you back do you like how I did that to hang up the phone as if that's how cellphones work yeah and so I looked at this and I said oh my goodness clearly there's a huge disconnect I thought they were really liked they were I thought they were into it and this showed me that something was wrong what do you do what do you do when you're about to give that same talk in 8 hours how do you begin finding out what the problem is so you can fix it I have an idea let's read the comments you got to believe you gotta have some optimism come on I said let's read the comments because I'm sure we'll find some helpful feedback some constructive criticism some insights to help me figure out how to make this talk great so that didn't happen but I did find some really colorful language and some very creative ideas of what I could do with myself now there are some kids in the audience so I will not grace you with these comments but there was this one comment that did a really great job of capturing the sentiment of what everyone else was saying I can only show you the first part because the rest is not very family-friendly but it reads like this how do you talk about coding and not fake societal issues see the thing about that talk is it wasn't just a code talk it was a code and talk is about code and something else that talked touched on code and social justice I talked a lot about how the things that we build the way we build them affect real people and their problems and their struggles and that was absolutely not okay not okay we talk about code and code only not the social justice stuff it also talked about code and diversity yeah I think we all know the diversity is really about lowering the bar it forces us to talk about people and their issues and their problems in their history and we just don't do that okay absolutely inappropriate when it comes to a Tech Talk That Talk touched on code and feelings and feelings are squishy they're messy they're icky and a lot of us feel uncomfortable with feelings feelings have no place in technology no place in code we want to talk about code and code I want you to show me that API and when you show me that new framework that new tool that's gonna solve my problems that's all I care about I want to talk about code and give me some more code with it now I host a podcast called command line heroes it's an original podcast from Red Hat super excited about it if you haven't checked it out and totally should and what I love about this show as we talk about these really important moments and open swords these inflection points moments where we see progress we move forward and what I realized looking back at those episodes is all of those episodes have a code and something let's look at a few of those the first two episodes focused on the history of operating systems as a two-part episode part 1 and part 2 and there's lots of different ways we can talk about operating systems for these two episodes we started by talking about Windows and Mac OS and how these were two very powerful very popular operating systems but a lot of a lot of developers were frustrated with them they were closed you couldn't see inside you can see what it was doing and I the developer want to know what it's doing on my machine so we kind of had a little bit of a war one such developer who was very frustrated said I'm gonna go off and do my own thing my name is Linus this thing is Linux and I'm gonna rally all these other developers all these other people from all over the old to come together and build this new thing with me that is a code and moment in that case it was code and frustration it was a team of developers a world of developers literally old world of developers who said I'm frustrated I'm fed up I want something different and I'm gonna do something about it and what's really beautiful about frustration is it the sign of passion we're frustrated because we care because we care so much we love so deeply then we want to do something better next episode is the agile revolution this one was episode three now the agile revolution is a very very important moment in open-source and technology in general and this was in response to the way that we used to create products we used to give this huge stack of specs all these docs from the higher-ups and we'd take it and we go to our little corner and we lightly code and build and then a year with Pastor here's a pass a few years have passed and we'd finally burst forth with this new product and hope that users liked it and loved it and used it and I know something else will do that today it's okay no judgment now sometimes that worked and a lot of times it didn't but whether or not it actually worked it hurt it was painful these developers not enjoy this process so what happened a dozen developers got together and literally went off into their own and created something called the agile manifesto now this was another code and moment here it's code and anger these developers were so angry that they literally left civilization went off into a mountain to write the agile manifesto and what I love about this example is these developers did not work at the same company we're not on the same team they knew each other from different conferences and such but they really came from different survive and they agreed that they were so angry they were going to literally rewrite the way we created products next as an example DevOps tear down the wall this one is Episode four now this is a bit different because we're not talking about a piece of technology or even the way we code here we're talking about the way we work together the way that we collaborate and here we have our operations folks and our developers and we've created this new kind of weird place thing called DevOps and DevOps is interesting because we've gotten to a point where we have new tools new toys so that our developers can do a lot of the stuff that only the operations folks used to be able to do that thing that took days weeks months to set up I can do it with a slider it's kind of scary I can do it with a few buttons and here we have another code and moment and here that blink is fear for two reasons the operations focus is looking over the developer folks and thinking that was my job I used to be able to do that am I still valuable do I have a place in this future do I need to retrain there's also another fear which is those developers know what they're doing do they understand the security implications they appreciate how hard it is or something to scale and how to do that properly and I'm really interested in excited to see where we go with that where we take that emotion if we look at all of season one of the podcast we see that there's always a code and whether it's a code and frustration a code and anger or a code and fear it always boils down to code and feelings feelings are powerful in almost every single episode we see that that movement forward that progress is tied back to some type of Oshin and for a lot of us this is uncomfortable feelings make us feel weird and a lot of those YouTube commenters definitely do not like this whole feeling stuff don't be like those YouTube commenters there's one thing you take away from this whole talk let it be that don't be like these YouTube commenters feelings are incredibly powerful so the next time that you're working on a project you're having a conversation about a piece of software or a new piece of technology and you start to get it worked up you get angry you get frustrated maybe you get worried you get anxious you get scared I hope you recognize that feeling as a source of energy I hope you take that energy and you help us move forward I would take that to create the next inflection point that next step in the right direction feelings are your superpowers and I hope you use your powers for good thank you so much [Applause] please welcome jewel-box chief technology officer Sara Chipps [Music] Wow there's a lot of you out here how's it going I know there's a lot of you East Coasters here as well and I'm still catching up on that sleep so I hope you guys are having a great experience also my name is Sarah I'm here from New York I have been a software developer for 17 years it's longer than some of the people on stage today I've been alive big thanks to the folks at Red Hat for letting us come and tell you a little bit about jewel box so without further ado I'm gonna do exactly that okay so today we're gonna do a few things first I'm gonna tell you why we built jewel BOTS and why we think it's a really important technology I'm gonna show you some amazing magic and then we're gonna have one of the jewel bus experts come as a special guest and talk to you more about the deep technology behind what we're building so show hands in the audience who here was under 18 years old when they started coding it's hard for me to see you guys yep look around I'd have to say at least 50% of you have your hands up all right keep your hand up if you were under 15 when you started coding I think more hands up just what is it I don't know how that mouth works but awesome okay great yeah a little of I think about half of you half of you have your hands up that's really neat I've done a bunch of informal polls on the internet about this I found that probably about two-thirds of professional coders were under 18 when they started coding I myself was 11 I was a homeschooled kid so a little weird I'm part of the generation and some of you maybe as well is the reason we became coders is because we were lonely not because we made a lot of money so I was 11 this is before the internet was a thing and we had these things called BBS's and you would call up someone else's computer in your town and you would hang out with people and chat with them and play role-playing games with them it didn't have to be your town but if it wasn't your mom would yell at you for a long distance fees and I got really excited about computers and coding because of the community that I found online okay so this is sometimes the most controversial part of this presentation I promised you that they dominate our lives in many ways even if you don't even if you don't even know a 9 to 14 year old girl even if you just see them on the street sometimes they are deciding what you and I do on a regular basis hear me out for a second here so who here knows who this guy is okay you don't have to raise your hands but I think most people know who this guy is right so this guy used to be this guy and then teenage girls were like I think this guy has some talent to him I think that he's got a future and now he's a huge celebrity today what about this guy just got his first Oscar you know just kind of starting out well this guy used to be this guy and I'm proud to tell you that I am one of the many girls that discovered him and decided this guy has a future all right raise your hand if you listen to Taylor Swift just kidding I won't make you do it but awesome that's great so Taylor Swift we listen to Taylor Swift because these girls discovered Taylor Swift it wasn't a 35 year old that was like this Taylor Swift is pretty neat no one cares what we think but even bigger than that these huge unicorns that all of us some of us work for some of us wish we invented these were discovered by young teenage girls no one is checking to see what apps were using they're finding new communities in these thin in these platforms and saying this is how I want to commune with my friends things like Instagram snapchat and musically all start with this demographic and then we get our cues from them if you don't know what musically is I promise you ask your nearest 9 to 14 year old friend if you don't do that you'll hear about it in a few years but this demographic their futures are all at risk everyone here knows how much the field of software development is growing and how important technical literacy is to the future of our youth however just 18% of computer science graduates are girls just 19% of AP computer science test takers and just 15% of Google's tech force identify as female so we decided to do something about that we were inspired by platforms like MySpace and Geocities things like Neopets and minecraft all places where kids find something they love and they're like okay to make this better all I have to do is learn how to code I can totally do that and so we wanted to do that so we talked to 200 girls we went to schools we sat down with them and we were like what makes you tick what are you excited about and what we heard from them over and over again is their friends their friends and their community are pivotal to them and this time in their lives so when we started talking to them about a smart friendship bracelet that's when they started really freaking out so we built Jewel BOTS and Jewel BOTS has an active online community where girls can work together share code that they've built and learn from each other help each other troubleshoot sometimes the way they work is when you are near your friends your bracelets light up the same color and you can use them to send secret messages to each other and you can also code them so you can say things like when all my swimming friends are together in the same room all of our bracelets should go rainbow colors which is really fun you can even build games jewel BOTS started shipping about a year and a half ago about after a lot of work and we are about to ship our 12,000 jewel bot we're in 38 city sorry 38 countries and we're just getting started okay so now it's time for the magic and I have an important question does anyone here want to be my friend pick me all right someone today Gary oh I don't have many friends that's awesome I'm so glad that we'll be friends okay it's awesome so we just need to pair our jewel BA okay okay and in order to do that we're gonna hold the magic button in the middle down for two seconds so one locomotive two locomotive great and then we got a white flashing I'm gonna do yours again I did it wrong locomotive two locomotive it's we're adults we can't do it okay it's a good that are smart alright so now we get to pick our friendship color I'm gonna pick red hat red does that work for you sure okay great so now I just picked a red hat red and my jewel bot is saying alright Tim's jewel bot do you want to be my friend and imageable about it's like I'm thinking about it I think so okay now we're ready okay great so now we're red friends when we're together our bracelets are going to be red and I will send you a secret message when it's time for you to come out and trip and introduce the next guest awesome well thank you so much thank you tailor gun so glad we could be friends and if only people would start following me on Twitter it'd be a great day awesome alright so now you can see the not so technical part of jewel box they use bluetooth to sense when your friends are nearby so they would work in about a 30 meter hundred foot range but to tell you about the actual technology part I'm going to introduce is someone much more qualified than I am so Ellie is one of our jewel box ambassadors she's an amazing YouTube channel that I would please ask you to check out and subscribe she's le G Joel BOTS on YouTube she's an amazing coder and I'm really excited to introduce you today to Ellie Galloway come on out Ellie [Applause] hello my name is le gallais I'm gonna show you how I got coding and then show you some coding in action I first started coding at a6 when my dad helped me code a game soon after I program form a code for Minecraft then my dad had shown me jo bot I keep coding because it helps people for instance for instance you could code auto crack to make it a lot smarter so it can help make people stay run faster but what about something more serious what if you could help answer 911 calls and give alerts before we start I have three main steps to share with you I often use these steps to encoding my jaw bot and continue to use some of these now step one read the instructions and in other words this means for Jabba to memorize the colors and positions a way to memorize these because it's tricky is to remember all the colors and positions you O type will be capital and remember that the positions are either short for north west south west north east and south east step to learn the basic codes when it comes to coding you need to work your way up step 3 discover feel free to discover once you mastered everything now let's get to coding let's use or let's first use combining lights so under void loop I'm going to put LED turn on single s/w and blue and before we make sure that this works we got to put LED LED okay now let's type this again LED dot turn on single now let's do SW green now we have our first sketch so let's explain what this means led LED is a function that to control the LED lights LED turn on single SW blue tells that SW light to turn blue and green flashes so quickly with the blue it creates aqua now let's do another code lets you i'm going to use a more advanced command to make a custom color using RGB let's use a soft pink using 255 105 and 180 now let's type this in the button press function so let's do LED led LED dot set light and now we can do let's do position 3 255 105 and 180 now let's explain what this means the first one stands for the position the three others stand for red green and blue our GPS can only go up to 255 but there are 256 levels but if you count the first one as zero then get 255 so let's first before we move on let's show how this works so this is it before and now let's turn it on to see how our aqua turned out now let's see how our RGB light turned out so we are looking for a soft pink so let's see how it looks think about how much the code you write can help people all around the world these are ideas are just the beginning of opening a new world in technology a fresh start is right around the corner I hope this helped you learn a little bit about coding and even made you want to try it out for yourself thank you [Applause] alright alright alright I need your help for a second guys alright one second really really fascinating we're short on time today is Ellie's 11th birthday and I think we should give her the biggest present that she's gonna get today and it's something none of us have experienced and that is thousands of people saying happy birthday Elliott wants so when I say three can I get a happy birthday Elly one two three happy birthday Elly great job that's the best part of my job okay so those are that's two of us we're just getting started this numbers out Dana would almost shipped 12,000 jewel BOTS and what I'm really excited to tell you about is that 44% of our users don't just play with their jewel bots they code them and they're coding C do you even code C I don't know that you do but we have 8 to 14 year olds coding C for their jewel box we also have hundreds of events where kids come and they learn how to code for the first time here's how you can help we're open source so check out our github get involved our communities online you can see the different features that people's are asking for we're also doing events all over the world a lot of people are hosting them at their companies if you're interested in doing so reach out to us thank you so much for coming and learning about jewel box today enjoy the rest of your summit [Music] ladies and gentlemen please welcome hacker femme au founder Femi who Bois de Kunz [Music] good afternoon red hat summit 2018 i'm femi holiday combs founder of hacker femme Oh I started coding when I was 8 when I was 9 I set up South London raspberry jam through crowdfunding to share my passion for coding with other young people who might not otherwise be exposed to tech since then I've run hundreds of coding and robot workshops across the UK and globally in 2017 I was awarded an inaugural legacy Diana award by their Royal Highnesses Prince William and Prince Harry my service and community we welcome young people who have autism or like me tract syndrome because coding linked me up to a wider community of like-minded people and I'm trying to do the same for those who might also benefit from this I also deliver workshops to corporate companies and public organizations whilst feeding back ideas and resources into my community work we like to cascade our knowledge and experience to other young coders so that they can benefit too we're learning new tech every day we're starting to use github to document and manage our coding projects we've no dread we're using the terminal and beginning to really appreciate Linux as we explore cybersecurity and blockchain it's been quite a journey from South London to the world-famous Tate Modern museum to Bangladesh to this my first trip to the States and soon to China where I hope to translate my microwave workshops into Mandarin on this journey I'm noticed it is increasingly important for young coders to have collaborative and community led initiatives and enterprise and career ready skills so my vision now is to run monthly meetups and in collaboration with business partners help a hundred young disadvantaged people to get jobs in the digital services in fact out of all the lessons I've learned from teaching young coders they all have one thing in common the power of open source and the importance of developing community and today I want to talk about three of those lessons the value of reaching out and collaborating the importance of partnering event price and the ability to self organize and persist which translated into English means having a can-do attitude getting stuff done when you reach out when you show curiosity you realize you're not alone in this diverse community no matter who you are and where you're from from coding with minecraft to meeting other young people with jams I found there are people like me doing things I like doing I get to connect with them that's where open-source comes to the fourth second the open source community is so vast then it crosses continents it's so immersed perspectives that it can take you to amazing places out of space even that's my code running on the International Space Station's Columbus module let's take a lesson and playing was an audio representation for the frequencies recorded in space my team developed Python code to measure and store frequency readings from the space station and that was down linked back to earth to my email box Thomas who's 10 developed an audio file using audacity and importing it back into Python how cool is that Trulli collaboration can take you places you never thought possible because that's how the community works when you throw a dilemma a problem a tip the open source community comes back with answers when you give the community gives back tenfold that's how open source expands but in that vast starscape how do you know what to focus on there are so many problems to solve where do I start your world enterprice enterprise software is very good at solving problems what's the big problem how about helping the next generation be ready for the future I want to do more for the young coding community so I'm developing entrepreneurial business links to get that done this is a way to promote pathways to deal with future business problems whether in FinTech healthcare or supply chains a meeting the skill shortage it is a case for emerging in it's a case for investing in emerging communities and young change enablers throwing a wider net equates to being fully inclusive with a good representation of diversity you know under the shadow of the iconic show back in London there are pockets of deprivation where young people can't even get a job in a supermarket many of them are interested in tech in some way so my goal for the next three years is to encourage young people to become an active part of the coding community with open source we have the keys to unlock the potential for future innovation and technological development with young coders we have the people who have to face these problems working on them now troubleshooting being creative connecting with each other finding a community discovering their strengths along the way for me after running workshops in the community for a number of years when I returned from introducing coding to young street kids in Bangladesh I realized I had skills and experience so I set up my business hacker Famicom my first monetized fehmi's coding boot camp at Rice London Barclays Bank it was a sellout and a few weeks later shows my second I haven't looked back since but it works the opposite way - all the money raised enable me to buy robots for my community events and I was able to cascade my end price knowledge across to other young coders - when you focus on business problems you get active enthusiastic support from enterprise and then you can take on anything the support is great and we have tons of ideas but what does it really take to execute on those ideas to get things done can-do attitudes what open source needs you've seen it all this week we're all explorers ideator z' thinkers and doers open source needs people who can make the ideas happen get out there and see them through like I did setting up Safford and raspberry jam as an inclusive space to collaborate and learn together and that that led to organizing the young coders conference this was about organizing our own two-day event for our partners in industry to show they value young people and wanted to invest in our growth it doesn't stop there oh nice now I'm setting up monthly coding meetups and looking at ways to help other young people to access job opportunities in end price and digital services the underlying ethos remains the same in all I do promoting young people with the desire to explore collaborative problem-solving when coding digital making and building enterprise you fled having the confidence to define our journey and pathways always being inclusive always encouraging innovation and creativity being doers does more than get projects done makes us a pioneering force in the community dreaming and doing is how we will make exponential leaps my generation is standing on the shoulders of giants you the open-source pioneers and the technology you will built so I'd love to hear about your experiences who brought you into the open-source community who taught you as we go to upscale our efforts we encounter difficulties have you and how did you overcome them please do come to talk to me I'll be in the open-source stories booth both today and tomorrow giving workshops or visit the Red Hat page of my website hack Famicom I really value your insights in conclusion I'd like I'd like to ask you to challenge yourself you can do this by supporting young coders find the crowdfunding campaign kick-start their ideas into reality I'm proof that it works it's so awesome to be an active part of the next exponential leap together thank you [Applause] so unbelievable huh you know he reminds me of be at that age not even close and I can tell you I've spent a lot of time with Femi and his mom grace I mean what you see is what you get I mean he's incredibly passionate committed and all that stuff he's doing that long list of things he's doing he's going to do so hopefully today you get a sense of what's coming in the next generation the amazing things that people are doing with collaboration I'd also like to thank in addition to femi I'd like to thank Sauron Sarah and Ellie for equally compelling talks around the open source stories and again as I mentioned before any one of you can have an open source story that can be up here inspiring others and that's really our goal in telling these stories and giving voice to the things that you've seen today absolutely extraordinary things are happening out there and I encourage you to take every advantage you can hear this week and as is our theme for the summit please keep exploring thank you very much [Applause] [Music]

>> Narrator: Live from Los Vegas it's theCUBE covering Dell Technologies World 2018 (relaxed music) brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. (relaxed music) >> Welcome to theCUBE. We are live on day two at Dell Technologies World. I'm Lisa Martin with my cohost the one and only @Stu, Stu Miniman. We are here in Vegas with about 14,000 attendees, the biggest event ever. Not just 14,000 people here but about 35,000 also engaging with the video experiences, live streaming, and the on-demand. Also going on here is a big event with partners. We're excited to welcome back to theCUBE Cheryl Cook, Senior Vice President of Global Channel Marketing from Dell EMC. Hi, Cheryl! >> Hi, thanks for havin' me! Welcome back! >> Yeah. So 6,500 partners. >> Absolutely. >> Wow, that's up from last year! >> We have record attendants. We just are really, really excited about the engagement and how we're resonating with our partners, so we just had a fantastic kick-off to our Global Partner Summit yesterday. >> So some big news regarding the Channel. One of the things I'd like to start with is the name of the event this year. The first time it's Dell Technologies World. Last year was Dell EMC World. >> Absolutely. Kind of indicative of the EMC Federation companies being absorbed into Dell, companies with their own channel programs. Talk to us about what you announce regarding the Dell Technologies Advantage framework. What is the framework, and how does it make it easier for channel partners to sell Dell products of- >> Well, thank you. You know, as you said, we've really elevated this event to the Dell Technologies World, and many of our partners today already participate in VMware's program or in Dell EMC's program, and really what we're doing with the Advantage is we're taking a lot of the messaging, the story, a lot of the marketing collateral that we candidly educated our internal employees on so that we can best differentiate and articulate to our customers the value and the power of all these strategically aligned businesses. So for the Partner community, we're bringing IT transformational campaigns to them, we're bringing a lot of the messaging and the story on how to enable and share with their team members and their customers, and we're also working on enablement and really driving more cross-functional, inclusive competencies and trainings to really enable them and their team members to be more effective. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Cheryl, maybe you could explain to us some of those, the training and the cross-competencies and things like that. You know, I'm sure there's people on the Dell Channel side that need to be educated on other products and vice versa, and there's new products all the time, new changing. You know, Jeff Clark walk-through, you know interesting things with like AI and IoT that are coming in the future. So maybe bring us inside some of that training. >> Yeah, absolutely. So we're very mindful of trying to develop either reference architectures or some of our curriculum around training that would include, you know, vSphere from VMware for example along with the Dell EMC infrastructure or even on our client initiatives a Windows 10 refresh effort that includes AirWatch from VMware. So really looking at the outcome-based opportunity that we know we have to engage in those conversations with our customers so that we can stitch together the training and the availability, and we want to on a future state develop these training so our partners wouldn't have to take them multiple times. It would be credited and eligible in both, VMware's program as well as Dell EMC. So we're really striving to give commonality and be efficient with speed, time to market, and really leveraging all the capabilities across the strategic landline businesses. >> What about some of the feedback that you've gotten from, you know, legacy EMC partners, Dell partners, in terms of how to make this complimentary. Was that, being that the partners are on the front lines talking with customers about all their transformation needs, how have the partners really helped to create this new framework? >> Well, you know, we're always listening, and we host a number of advisory boards, and we listen to our partners, and we've heard very, very common: "We love the product marketing, "but we want you to give us solution marketing. "Can you help enable us "in the outcome-based conversation and dialogue?" One of the things we announced this week is an IT transformation marketing campaign which we're going to put in market with Dell EMC. It's available simultaneously for the partners that essentially really does map together all the technologies and componentry across the strategic landline businesses to the business outcomes that they're talkin' to their customers about. We also launched an IoT Competency for the first time this week which again is really driving at some of those emerging technologies you heard Jeff talk about like AI and getting to machine learning and analytics to really help them engage and be more competent and effective in those technologies. >> Yeah. Cheryl, how's the Channel doing? You know, there's been (Cheryl laughs) so much change going on. I remember back when, you know, converged infrastructure first launched. It was like, "Oh, we need to create data center practices "because they were server or storage people." When Cloud rolled out, it was like, "Well, we're workin' with Microsoft. "How do we figure this out?" How is the Channel transforming? How do they look at their business? How do they look at where they add value? >> Absolutely, and I'll tell ya, Stu, I've been in this business a long time, and I don't know a more exciting time when it's moving faster, and that's also true in the partner ecosystem, in the partner community. So we're still going to transact a lot of business the traditional way that we do now, but increasingly I'm hearin' from the partners they're looking at forming new alliances, they're looking at acquisitions, they're buying new skills and capabilities. We really want to help chart that map for them on kind of where the vision is heading and how we can help align with them. So if it's possible, we want to try and help align new alliances and introductions for them with other partners, or as I said continue to bring solutions, reference architectures, to market that can help them enable around it. >> Can you tell us a little bit about what was announced regarding the Dell EMC Ready Stack for Channel Partners and reference architectures? >> So that's a great example of where we're going to always continue to work to bring engineered systems together like a VxRail or a VxBlock. But the Dell EMC Ready Stack is really a certified and tested reference architecture for those partners in those instances where they want to go build it. So we'll tell them, "Here's all the buildin' materials and all the capabilities. "It'll be a completely inclusive Dell Technology stack," but it's a way to give them confidence, mitigate risk, and they can build it and integrate it rather than buying a system that's been pre engineered. >> Cheryl, how has the Dell Technologies World experience different for the Channel partners? You know, one of the feedbacks I always get is, I was like aw, well, I mean everybody from Dell is really busy, and there's certain things you can tell the customers, but the Channel people it's like, "Well, tell us more about the future. "Give us some of that NDA stuff." How do you manage that and, you know, maybe give us a little bit of flavor of what the week is like for them that are attending. >> Well, you've certainly seen the scale of this event, so we call our Global Partner Summit an event inside an event, but we have everything from technical training, where the partners are able to take their exams and certifications. We certainly have Heroes exposition and Heroes going for the Pre-Sales technical community, and we also have an Executive Briefing Center where we're hosting. Right behind me, we have our partner lounge. We're hosting over 800 one-on-one meetings in that partner lounge where the partners get to meet either with customers. They've certainly brought a lot of customers here. They get to meet with Dell EMC executives or the partner executives, and it's really around collaborating, networking. In many ways it accelerates sales opportunities here, so it's a combination of technical training, networking, executive meetings, obviously product launches and announcements that we're bringing to market, the opportunity to really cultivate and work globally in our Global Partner Summit. So it's a pretty active week, but we have everybody rather busy. >> Talk to us about some of the ways that you are incentivizing and rewarding partners for their loyalty. >> Yeah, well thanks for asking. One of the things we announced this week actually is a My Rewards program, and think of this as a way to accelerate incentives to our partners, sales reps and their Pre-Sale SE community. So it's a platform that's going to allow them to redeem points, so you earn these points. You can either get cash cards, gifts, trips, and it really does go directly to their sales reps and their SEs. So we've launched a really comprehensive loyalty program around our storage offerings. This is an excellent sales tool that our partners can leverage with their customers, but it comes with it a host of incentives and rewards for competitive take-out and displacement, growth of new business and new logos. I mean, our partner community in the last year brought 54,000 new customers to Dell EMC, many of those if they're targeting these competitive takeouts, they're eligible for those incentives, and it's a win-win. >> Cheryl, how is the competitive landscape out there? You know, it's always a balance between, "Well, I want to incent you for loyalty, "but it's a diverse market, "and there's a partner you might grow with "that might end up being more competitive "somewhere down the road." How do ya balance that? How do you work through some of those issues in the field? >> Well, you know, we're very focused on tryin' to earn their business and earn the opportunity in the marketplace. We're incredibly fortunate right now that we've been experiencing double-digit growth. Many of our partners would tell us that they're growing faster with us than others, and to be completely honest, when you look at the categories we compete in, we enjoy market leadership positions whether it's in our servers or in storage or all-flash or hyper-converged. So when you really bring that together, it's an opportunity, candidly, for our partners. We're going to have to earn it every day. We recognize and know that they're business people and they work with other companies, but we're just trying to make sure that we bring simple, predictable, and profitable opportunities in both technology and platforms but also in our program and engagement. >> So the transformation theme has been really predominately woven throughout yesterday and today as well, digital transformation, IT transformation, security and workforce transformation. And in fact, Jeff talked about that during his keynote this morning. What are some of the expectations as the partners being on the front lines with customers, and customers are now looking at leaders like Dell Technologies to say, "How do we start utilizing emerging new technologies?" You mentioned IoT, campaign. How are you, what are your expectations for the Channel to be able to help customers build infrastructures that allow them to take advantage of artificial intelligence, machine learning, IoT, to really be able to then transform their businesses to be competitive? >> You know, I am impressed every day when I meet with our partner community. In many ways they're leading the charge. So the natural engagement of some of these leading edge and emerging new technologies, our partners are doing amazingly innovative work on embedding their intellectual property around these. But for our part, what we want to do is certainly make sure that they're aware of use cases. Here's business outcomes, many of which were kind of shown in the keynote, in the big stage earlier this morning, and we'll just drive competencies, we'll give them demo gear, we'll put them in labs in our Executive Briefing Centers. We actively encourage our partners to take advantage of our Solution Centers and our Executive Briefing Centers. It's a fantastic way for them to come into a sandbox and really immerse themselves in the technology and do proof-of-concepts with their customers. So we're going to continue to be focused on doing market research for them. Must of the marketing material that we're bringing out on these transformational campaigns, the partners can benefit and leverage the research that we've done with companies like ESG and IDC and Forbes to really substantiate and build assessments and use cases for business outcomes with their customers. >> Yeah. Cheryl, we've watched since the acquisition, Dell has been very, you know, focused on, "How do we merge these companies? "How do we put this Channel program together?" Would you say are we at kind of a 1.5 version of that now? How when you would talk to the channel, how much more change did they expect kind of throughout the year? And there's always feedback and learning, of course, but (mumbles). >> Well, we're moving fast, but we're also genuinely committed to predictability and consistency with our partners. So one piece of pretty honest feedback we receive is don't change it all the time, right? Don't change it frequently. And we couldn't be more delighted with the success we've had in our inaugural year. I mean, when you just look at the fact that we unified and brought the program together, the success we're both enjoying, it's not completely broken. So we want to make sure that we can make refinements, we can adapt and be responsive to some of these new technologies and new transformations without really being disruptive and have wholesale change. So you'll see us really listen and continue to take feedback from our partners, but frankly, we feel like we're winning right now, and we want to continue to just try and earn it and keep goin' fast. >> The word that comes to mind in summary is symbiosis. >> Yes, yes. >> Thank you, Cheryl, so much for comin' by, >> Absolutely. and congratulations on growing the partner community this year and having over 800 meetings. Wow, that's a lot! >> I know. >> We're busy. Thank you! >> You are busy, thanks so much. We want to thank you for watchin' theCUBE. We are live in Los Vegas, day two of Dell Technologies World. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman! We'll be right back after a short break. (upbeat music)