(upbeat music) >> Welcome to the Cube's special program series Women of the Cloud brought to you by AWS. I'm your host Lisa Martin. Very pleased to welcome Megan Hayes to the program now. Megan is the COO of Blackstone's Technology Group. Megan, great to have you on the program. Thanks for joining me today. >> Thanks for having me. >> Tell me a little bit about your background, a little bit about your role as COO. >> Yeah, definitely, so I joined Blackstone about six months ago. And, I serve as our chief operating officer of Blackstone Tech and Innovations. And, really what that means is I look at all of our aspects of operational excellence. I run our agile practice. I look at our labor strategies, what we do with workforce, our finance function and what we do with our communications strategy, training and really just everything that centers around continuous improvement and how we really drive culture across technology. So, it's pretty dynamic role. It really looks to serve across how we enable our entire tech organization, and it's just a lot of fun. >> That's good. Fun is good. Sounds like it's a very comprehensive role as well. I was looking at you on LinkedIn. You've got background in physics and engineering. Talk to me a little bit about your path to getting to the COO level. >> Yeah. I mean, it has been a non-linear path for sure. I think a big part of it has been just jumping at opportunities that have had lots of different aspects of technology, product, data, anything that I've had a passion in has, you know, revolved around technology. And so, I think being a good COO is about asking really good questions, being thoughtful and looking for opportunities where organizations can keep driving excellence, keep getting better. One of the things that I think is really important about being a good COO is just thinking innovatively about, you know, what's next and what's on the horizon in terms of, you know, the future of technology and how you can enable that within an organization. And, you know, one like ours, we're always kind of looking for what's next. So, you know, I think for me it's been about taking those next opportunities, about really continuing to drive that across finance. So, I've had positions across various industries within the financial services sector. And, have really had a great opportunity to be here at Blackstone, so I'm very excited. >> Sounds like you have a really diverse background. And, I always think those non-linear paths, mine wasn't linear either. And, I talk to very few people whose career paths are linear, but then, you get so much thought diversity, because you bring in different perspectives. I can imagine that's a huge advantage to the COO role at Blackstone. I'd love to get your advice on how would you advise the audience watching this who may be looking to grow their careers in tech? What are some of the key recommendations that you would deliver to them? >> Yeah, I think about it in two ways. I mean, the first thing for me is about asking for feedback. One of the things that has really come to me throughout my career has been people that are willing to give those tough messages to really push you to grow. So, one of the things that I have been challenged with is exploring, you know, what do I need to get better at? Where do I really need to lean in to growing those skills? And, part of that is it comes in messages from others where they're willing to, you know, reach out to you and give you that feedback proactively. But, sometimes you have to seek it out. And, you have to really, you know, ask peers, mentors, people that you have seen grow in their own careers, people that you admire and you wonder how they got there themselves. And, just really seeking out feedback, asking what you can do to grow yourself. And, not being scared of hearing those tough messages and leaning into it. So, you know, I think that is the first part of it. And, really fostering and cultivating a sense of not being fearful of hearing those messages of feedback. So, thing one for me is go after that. It's never a bad time in your career to really listen for feedback and to think about what you can do to keep getting better. And so, I would encourage anybody to really think about ways that they can continue to grow and continue to cultivate new skills and new competencies and look at those opportunities to get better. And then, the second thing is, you know, don't be scared of taking on opportunities or roles where you don't have, you know, every last skill. I think, predominantly, along with women, we try to see ourselves as being perfect in every aspect of a job opportunity. We really want to know that we're going to be great. And, oftentimes, where you see the most growth is when you don't have some of those skills where maybe you have, you know, 40 or 50% of what's on that job spec and the rest of it is well, you know, I'll learn as I go. And, that is where the growth is. So, don't be scared of being really interested in a job opportunity where you have part of what's on that job rec, and you don't have all the rest of it. And, lean into that, and let a little bit of that fear, a little bit of the anxiety drive you to keep getting better and cultivating those skills in that new opportunity. I've been fortunate to have senior leaders and other mentors in my career see things in me that I couldn't see and encouraged me to take opportunities that I didn't think I could be successful at, and I've gone after those things and then seen the growth, you know, in hindsight. So, I would really encourage people to look at those opportunities where it's a little bit scary and then go for it, because that really cultivates a whole new set of skills. And, when you look back on those, you know, challenges and those opportunities that you jump at, you're like, wow, you know, I would do that again. And, you keep doing that, and you find yourself going. You know, now I know so many more things than when I started, so the combination of feedback and taking risks, I think, really helps elevate someone's career over, you know, the course of decades. So, those are two things that I think could be just incredibly powerful throughout a person's career. >> Absolutely. I couldn't agree with your advice more. You know, I think it's open your ears, open your mind, open your heart, but also to your point, I was doing some research a few months ago for a Women in Tech segment, and I saw that women will apply, and you talked about this, for a job say on LinkedIn if they meet, they won't apply unless they meet 100% of the job requirements, whereas men will apply if they meet only 40. And, your point is you don't have to meet all the job requirements. Very few people do. Take the risk, and to your point, there's so many new skills and new growth areas that you can unlock for yourself by just, you know, taking the risk, maybe it's a little bit scary, but I always think a goal isn't worth having if it doesn't give you some butterflies in your stomach. >> Exactly. Exactly. And, I think so many of those butterflies, it's the adrenaline. It's the motivator. And, it is the thing that will push you to take the training course, to read the book, to reach out to a friend, to seek out help. And, that is how we continue to get better. It's, you know, education at its finest. It's upscaling at its finest. And, I don't think that, you know, being perfect at something is necessarily the best thing. It is the imperfect, you know, nature of learning and education that actually makes us, you know, better at what we do and more introspective about where the failures are that we can continue to grow. So, you know, I think that we should be a bit fearless when it comes to our own growth in our careers. >> Yes. I love that, becoming more fearless. There's so many positive things that can come from it as a result. Talk to me now about some of the successes you've had where you've really helped solve problems for customers or even for Blackstone related to the cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, one of the biggest things for us has been, you know, the journey of migration. So, when you go from going off of your data centers and migrating to the cloud, that is a tremendous effort for any company and a, you know, especially one as we look to do it here at Blackstone. So, we've migrated over 240 applications to the cloud. We've shut down our four data centers. That's a tremendous effort that the team went through. And, you know, a huge success story, I think, across all of the teams that had to come together to do that. The biggest benefit truly was the cultural one though. The ways that the teams collaborated. The ways that they came together, how they had to work across the different leaders, across the different teams and figure out how to get things done. And so, that culture of collaboration that was really instilled across the day to day teams that were so used to working together. And then, all of a sudden so many teams across different executives had to come together and figure out how to get the work done. That has been instilled now, I think in the ways that we work to date. And then, the upscaling and the leverage and the opportunities where they could focus on things that created business opportunities for our, you know, consumers and our businesses across the company. And, working on those higher leverage opportunities has been phenomenal. And so, those are the things, those carry forward lessons that we've been able to take with us and are here today. And so, as we've been, you know, planning for the years ahead, what the tech strategy and how do we look at things? You know, those cultural benefits have been massive successes, I think, for our team. And, you know, something that have really been instilled now in the culture of our, you know, our tech work force. >> It sounds like you've really positively impacted the ethos of the company. And, I think, you know, projects like what you talked about migrating 240 apps, being able to shut down four data centers, I don't think you can do that without cultural change at the same time, and that cultural transformation is really the fuel that has to be there for digital transformation to be successful. I kind of see them like this, like they're linked. And, it sounds like you guys have done a great job at Blackstone about really, really driving that cultural change for the better for permanent, but also for the better across all lines of business. >> Yeah, and I think it opens up, you know, for people what they can do. They start to see the momentum build. They start to collaborate together. They start to share their expertise with one another. And, I think they see those linkages getting created and they realize, okay, I've been doing this day to day, you know, before the migration took place. And now that there's this forcing function and the teams come, you know, they come together in a big room. They're trying to figure out large scale plans. They're trying to understand how to get things done, how to leverage the latest and greatest technologies, how to make things more modern and reach those huge milestones. All of sudden it enables this creativity and this uplift that they haven't seen from, you know, prior ways of working, and I think that just creates a huge amount of ways of thinking about how we're going to work going forward. And, the creativity just starts to flow for the future. And, it creates a lot of leverage and uplift going forward. And so, you know, that culture that just starts to get instilled and ingrained also then becomes a huge recruiting, you know, lever for us. And then, also a retention lever for us, because people start to work in a more, you know, modern stack and a more modern way of being. >> It's momentum, right. I mean, absolutely it's momentum that's driving that flywheel. I want to switch topics a little bit and get your perspectives on diversity. We talk about it so often in technology, in every industry, but there are still some challenges there. I'd love to get your perspectives on some of the things that you've seen. And, what are some of the improvements that you think can be made where diversity is concerned? >> Yeah, I mean, diversity is still a huge challenge in so many facets of the pipeline as I, you know, think about it. And, as I've experienced it and the recruiting aspects, the retention aspects and even the elevation of great talent. So, in technology, specifically, it's still a challenge to really ensure that we can get into, you know, minority and lower income communities to ensure that there's great access to training and to folks that really want to participate in this kind of a field. It's expensive. It has a high barrier to entry, and to really get out there and teach people these great and innovative technologies is difficult. And, you know, from my perspective, the essence of technology is diversity, because it's about how you look at the future. It's about how you innovate. It's about how you see things with a different perspective. And so, it's vital that we have people from all different walks of life, from all different experiences, you know, having these skills, and can see the world through, you know, blends that they experience the world from. And so, it's not just the beginning of the pipeline ensuring the people have access, but also when they have a passion for it, and when we recruit them, and when we give them opportunities to have a career and flourish that we can also make sure that it's a place where they can flourish, be promoted and then be retained but also elevate and feel a sense of community that is inclusive and that represents them and that they have, you know, the encouragement to continue to like have amazing, amazing careers where their perspectives are valued, and their experiences are valued. And so, you know, I think the entire pipeline is something where there is still so much work to do. I think for my own experience, you know, it can be challenging. It can be challenging to be unique with your own perspective and with your own experience kind of walking through a tech world whether it's as a woman or whether it's as, you know, a person of color, or whether it's as a person with a different sexual orientation and any person that has any intersectionality. And so, there's all these different ways that we look at the world and our experiences. And, technology, again, is this essence of diversity and development. So, I think that we still have a lot of challenges in how we build the pipeline and retain the pipeline. And, for me, I always try to think of like how do you use your own experiences to cultivate that in others, to mentor and to build programming that allows your organization to bring in the best and the brightest and to really give back? Because, that is- >> Yeah. >> Really the best way to do that. >> It really is. And, I like you you talk about, you know, the diversity pipeline, and we think of filling the front end, but to your point, it's really got to be across the life cycle of that, from a retention perspective, attraction talent, retaining them, making sure people feel that they're included, that their voice matters, that their thought diversity impact matters. Last question for you as we wrap up here. Just what are some of the things that are next on the horizon that you see in terms of cloud? How do you see your role evolving? >> Yeah, I mean, I think really the biggest thing from a cloud perspective really is the talent and the diversity. I think that the more that we cultivate skills, upscale our engineering population and continue to look for ways to modernize our applications that inherently will attract new talent, new ways of thinking, new skills that are coming out of all sorts of organizations, all sorts of colleges, all sorts of institutions that will attract the right kind of talent that we want here at Blackstone. It's really exciting to think about what we can do for our companies that we invest in, for our businesses here at Blackstone, for our engineers and the value that we can bring, you know, across the communities that we work within. And so, I think that we really just want to continue to track that talent and drive that value, really, across the organization. >> Awesome. Megan, it's been such a pleasure having you on the program talking about your role as COO of Blackstone's Technology Group, the great successes that you've had where cloud is concerned, your thoughts and recommendations on diversity and what you see as next. We really appreciate your time and your insights. >> Thank you for having me. It's been great. >> Oh, our pleasure. For Megan Hayes, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching this Cube special program series, Women at the Cloud brought to you by AWS. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to VMworld 2021, a two day virtual event, hosted by the company which permanently changed data center operations last decade. My name is Dave Vellante, and you're watching theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2021, where we want to know what VMware and its ecosystem have in store for the next 10 years and how your digital business can survive and thrive in the coming decade, and who better to give us a glimpse as to how that's being done both inside VMware and within its customer base, than Mike Hayes, who is the chief digital transformation officer at VMware. Mike, great to have you on the program. >> No Dave, thank you for having me, we appreciate you and all that you do for this great event. Thank you, sir. >> Oh, I appreciate that. So talk about, what's involved with your role as chief digital transformation officer. What's that all about? >> Yeah thank you for, many people, are chief digital transformation officer in a lot of different places, different things. Here at VMware I'm responsible for worldwide business operations and digital transformation of the firm. Just like first and foremost, we're focused on our customers and how our customers can improve their own business models, whether it's cost, flexibility, speed, imagining new things, that's what gets us really excited. And at the same time, we're transforming internally in order to bring ourselves into our exciting third chapter. >> Yeah, everybody wants to be a SAS company these days, VMware obviously is accelerating its move towards SAS. Maybe you could talk a little bit about your strategy for leading business operations as well as that transformation. >> Absolutely, I think there's a couple of things. And first of all, the most important thing in an organization is agility we have or transforming our own ability to transform. As we all know, everybody listening knows that markets don't sit still, they pivot quickly, and so the organizations that win aren't the organizations that prepare for tomorrow, but they prepare for the ability to change for tomorrow, and as the markets change, they stay ahead of that. So that's what we're doing at VMware and that's what we're really excited about our entire suite of products and services so that we can help organizations do the same. >> Yes so, if I could stay on this for a second, Mike, when you think about what you have to deal with there, and you're moving to that as a service subscription model, you got to the external factors, you mentioned you start with the customer, but you also have internal factors, right? Your salespeople might be used to one and done move on to the next one, more transactional, it's a whole different mindset, isn't it? >> It absolutely is, and so any organization as large as VMware is, should always be staring at itself and saying, how can we be more flexible? And so we just like everywhere else are looking at our foundational data, we're looking at our ERP systems, we're looking at our own internal processes to say, as we pivot to SAS, and the back office becomes closer to the front office. That's really where it's at, there's not a customer in the world that cares about any of their... Where they're buying from, the back offices from where they're buying from don't matter, what matters is that experience, it's that front layer, it's that first touch with the customer. We recognize that, and we're preparing for that, and I'm really excited about how it's going. >> Let's talk about some of the waves that you're riding here, the major trends that are driving digitally. I often call it the forced march to digital in 2020. It was like, we were just thrown into the fire. And it's just the way it was. If you weren't a digital business, you were out of business. And now people are kind of sitting back and saying okay, let's take those learnings, fill those gaps, and really set us on a course over the next decade. So what do you see as the major trends? What are the technologies that are enabling digital business and how are you applying them both in your own business and what you're seeing with your customers? >> We first of all I think what's important is to recognize that every organization needs the ability to scale. So what we're doing at VMware is simplifying our foundation. And so then as we 2x or 5x or 10x, our own business, we're multiplying off a much simpler base. And so as we drive our own transformation, our internal principles of like simplicity and clarity and accountability, and really streamlining is what VMware is doing. And that's what we're also not surprisingly recommending and helping our own customers with. And so that's what gets really exciting for us. I think that, one of the things that you're alluding to with this a forced march to digital which I totally agree with, is really, it is about experience and for us there are a couple of KPIs that are really interesting to us, and it should be for everybody, no surprise here, but the velocity that it takes for operations to go from an idea to a closure, from quote to cash, or from idea to implementation, whatever that front and back end words your own business uses are what's important, but how fast do you get through that? And so for us, we're imagining a touch less future. So no, are we there yet? Absolutely not. Is any organization? Very few are. And so how do we constantly say, ask ourselves what don't we need to be doing? When I walk into a room in a lot of places VMware or otherwise, and you say who's in charge of what we're not doing? That's where all the good ideas are, the good idea spaces, like what organizations aren't doing, so you have that culture of pulling awesome ideas to the front and saying, how do we just prioritize? The hardest thing Dave right now, is that there are so many shiny objects for all of our enterprises, for everybody that's listening. I think one of the hardest things is prioritizing and saying, how do we spend our resources in the smartest way possible, so that we are doing the things that will have the greatest impact for our customers. Something that we feel like we have a great plan for, and we're excited about the execution over the coming year. >> I wonder if you could comment on what you're seeing and just in terms of spending patterns. All throughout last year, we reported that CIO's expected budget contractions of around 5% relative to 2019, and what happened is in the second half, he really saw, companies had to respond to the cyber threats, they had to respond, of course to hybrid work, this whole digital march that we talked about, and it was actually pretty strong. Many people expected that a lot of the traditional companies that relied on data center and on-prem and HQ spend, were really going to get hit and they actually got through it okay. And meanwhile, the cloud is exploding, your cloud businesses exploding, security is exploding. What was interesting is, just this weekend, we published some data that suggested, that is not only continuing into 2021, but CIO's are expecting, more of this in 2022. So we used to have this sort of steady IT spend, refresh cycles, et cetera, but it seems like we're in a step function right now, in terms of investment, and it seems like CEOs are saying, if we don't lead this digital transformation, we're going to become toast. >> Absolutely Dave, yeah, the first thing you mentioned was budget. Let's remember budgets are a function of a company's focus on either short term goals or long-term goals. And so the organizations that are really smartest are thinking three, four, five years out and you're investing now, so that you can always really be high-performing in that 2, 3, 4 year window. Because any organization that mortgages it's future for this current year is not doing itself any favors. So the cycles that I'm seeing that are aligned exactly as you described, organizations are understanding, key leaders get that they need to invest. But the question is, how do you invest in the things that are classically thought of as maybe back office, or let me just say boring, just to be provocative. How do we choke out the boring stuff from a budget standpoint, and then really give a lot of oxygen and energy to the things that are fun and really transformative? And that's what we're seeing, and that's why we feel like our strategy is so great Dave, because we're part of that for the future, and as organizations think about freeing up capital so that they can invest in those fun things that really accelerate their own business models, that's what it's about. >> Now VMware of course has always had an amazing ecosystem, always been very proud of the value that you created, not just free for your own selves, but for your customers, and also your ecosystem partners. So as it relates to your digital transformation role Mike, we talked about customers, we talked about some of the internal stuff and operations. How does the ecosystem fit in? How do you collaborate with them? What kind of learnings do you get from them? How do you plug them into your digital platform if you will? >> Absolutely, I think the most important element you're drawing out, Dave, is the concept of trust. We have incredible partners, and without whom VMware's business and success that we enable in the world would be very limited. So we recognize that we all go through life with friends and partners, it's obviously not just true in business, I was a Navy Seal for 20 years and the most important thing is that foundational element. Now, what we do and what we're always trying to do is be as transparent and fast and helpful as we can. I think that in the partner world, anytime you can reach across the table more than halfway and with another organization, that's easy to intersect. If you're not willing to meet people in places more than halfway, there is no middle. So for us, what we're doing is constantly listening and getting feedback and saying, where can we improve? That's what's really awesome. Sandy Hogan is an incredible colleague of mine who runs our channel, and Sandy runs a board with 30 of our largest partners in the channel, and the first question that she always asks is, what can we be doing better? And that's for us the most important thing is listening. Just like you were in developing an individual product. What's important is product market fit, right? Does your product fit in the market, and then how do you get feedback from it? We apply that as an institution and an enterprise. >> Mike, you mentioned your experience in the military, thank you for your service, I wanted to ask you something about that. So I wrote a piece one time and talked about Frank Slootman, who is becoming a Silicon Valley icon, how he's going to apply his playbook at his new company, Bubba. And he wrote me back, he said, "Dave I learned in the military that, it's not a playbook. I am a situational leader and I learned that in the military." So my question to you is, what did you learn as a Navy Seal to deal with situations, especially in a condition like we are now, where there's a lot unknown. How do you apply that in today's world? >> Yeah Look, the there's the parallels between the Seals and VMware are perfect, right? Because all we're doing is quickly defining an outcome. What's the vision for the organization? What's the outcomes we'd want to achieve? That's the where we're going. Then there's the strategy, which is the how. How are we going to get there? How do you develop strategy? There are a hundred different ways to go achieve the vision, but how do we think about the different risks along the way? And like I said earlier, draw those risks out, so they're known risks. Then we can price them and size them and understand that for our strategy. And then how do we execute well and how do we get feedback throughout the whole thing? But you know Dave, the best thing I would say, the analogy from the Seals in the military, really is what you hit on. A lot of people say that they have a plan, but in the Seals the only plan that we had was for our plan to change, it's that concept I said earlier of transforming our ability to transform. So we go in on any given night with complicated missions and have a plan, but we knew that that plan was going to very quickly change, it's no different than what we're doing here at VMware, with our own customers in this technology market. >> It's a great lesson to apply Mike. I really appreciate you sharing that and appreciate you coming on the queue. >> Thank you for having me, it's such a pleasure. >> Really a pleasure was ours, and thank you for watching over. Keep it right there for more great content from Vmworld 2021, you're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Voiceover: From Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering Sapphire now, headline sponsored by SAP, Hana, the Cloud, the leader in Platform as a service, with support from Console Inc, the cloud internet company, now here are your hosts, John Furrier, and Peter Burris. >> Hey welcome back everyone, we are here live at SAP Sapphire in Orlando, Florida, this is theCube, Silicon Angle Media's flagship program, we go out to the events and extract the scene of the noise, I'm John Furrier with my co-host Peter Burris, our next guest is Matt Hayes, VP of SAP Business, Attunity, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you, thank you so much. >> So great to have you on, get the update on Attunity. You've been on theCube many times, you guys have been great supporters of theCube, appreciate that, and want to get a little update, so obviously Attunity, it's all about big data, Hana is a big data machine, it does a lot of things fast, certainly analystics being talked about here, but how do you guys fit in with SAP, what's your role here? How does it fit? >> Sure sure, well I think this is our ninth of tenth time here at Sapphire, we've been in the ecosystem for quite some time, our Gold Client solution is really designed to help SAP customers move data from production to non-production systems, and now, more throughout the landscape, or the enterprise even, so as SAP's evolved, we've evolved with SAP and a lot of our customers get a lot of value by taking real-life production data out of their production system, and moving that to non-production systems, training, sandbox, test environments. Some customer's use it for troubleshooting, you know, you have a problem with some data in production, you can bring that into a non-production system and test that, and some scrambling capabilities as well. Most SAP customers have a lot of risk if their copying the production data into non-production systems that are less secure, less regulated, so some of the data scrambling or obfuscation techniques that we have make it so that that data can safely go into those non-production systems and be protected. >> What's been your evolution? I mean obviously you mentioned you guys been evolving with SAP, so what is the current evolution? What's the highlight, what's the focus? >> So, obviously Hana has been the focus for quite some time and it still is, more and more of our customer's are moving to Hana, and adopting that technology, less so with S4, because that's kind of a newer phase, so a lot of people are making the two step approach of going to Hana, and then looking at S4, but Cloud as well, we can really aid in that Cloud enablement, because the scrambling. When we can scramble that sensitive data, it helps customer's feel comfortable and confident that they can put vendor and customer and other sensitive data in a Cloud based environment. >> And where are you guys winning? So what's the main thrust of why you guys are doing business in the SAP ecosystem. >> So with SAP you're always looking to do things better. And when you do things better, it results in cost savings on your project, and if you could save money on your project and do things smarter, you free up peoples time to focus on the fun projects, to focus on Hana, to focus on Cloud, and with our software, with our technology, by copying that data and providing real production data in the development and sandbox environments, we're impacting and improving the change control processes, we're impacting and improving the testing processes within companies, we're enabling some automation of some of those processes. >> Getting things up and running faster in the POC or Development environment? Real data? >> Yeah because you can be more nimble if you have real production data that you're working with while you're prototyping, you can make changes faster, you can be more confident in what you're promoting to production, you can be avoiding having a bad transport or a bad change going into the production environment and impact your business. So if you're not having to worry about that kind of stuff, you can worry about the fun stuff. You can look at Hana, you can look at Cloud, you can look at some of the newer technologies that SAP is providing. >> So, you guys grew up and matured, as you said, you've grown as SAP has grown, SAP used to be regarded as largely an applications company, now SAP, you know the S4, Hana platform, is a platform, and SAP's talking about partnerships, they're talking about making this whole platform even more available, accessible, to new developers through the Apple partnership etcetera, creates a new dynamic for you guys who have historically been focused on being able to automate the movement of data, certain data, certain processes, how are you preparing to potentially have to accommodate an accelerated rate of digitization as a consequence of all these partners, now working at SAP as a platform? >> That's a great question, and it's actually, it aligns with Attunity's vision and direction as well, so SAP, like you said, used to be an applications company, now it's an applications company with a full platform integrated all the way around, and Attunity is the same way, we came to Attunity through acquisition, and bringing our SAP Gold Client technology, but now we're expanding that, we're expanding it so that we can provide SAP data to other parts of the enterprise, we can combine data, we can combine highly structured SAP data with unstructured data, such as IOT Data, or social media streams in Hadoop, so the big data vision for Attunity is what's key, and right now we're in the process of blending what we do with SAP, with big data, which happens to align with SAP's platform. You know SAP is obviously helping customers move to Hana on the application side, but there's a whole analytics realm to it, that's even a bigger part of SAP's business right now, and that's kind of where we fit in. We're looking at those technologies, we're looking at how we can get data in and out of Hadoop, SAP Data in and out of Hadoop, how we can blend that with non SAP Data, to provide business value to SAP customers through that. >> Are you guys mainly focused on Fren, or are you also helping customer's move stuff into and out of Clouds and inside a hybrid cloud environment? >> Both actually, most SAP customer's are on Premise, so most of our focus is on Premise, we've seen a lot of customers move to the Cloud, either partial or completely. For those customers, they can use our technology the exact same way, and Attunity's replication software works on Prem and in the Cloud as well. So Cloud is definitely a big focus. Also, our relationship with Amazon, and Red Shift, there's a lot of Cloud capabilities and needs for moving data between on Premise and the Cloud, and back and forth. >> As businesses build increasingly complex workloads, which they clearly are, from a business stand point, they're trying to simplify the underlying infrastructure and technology, but they're trying to support increasingly complex types of work. How do you anticipate that the ecosystems ability to be able to map this on to technology is going to impact the role that data movement plays. Let me be a little bit more specific, historically, there were certain rules about how much data could be moved and how much work could be done in a single or a group of transactions. We anticipate that the lost art of data architecture across distances, more complex applications, it's going to become more important, are you being asked by your customers to help them think through, in a global basis, the challenges of data movement, as a set of flows within the enterprise, and not just point to point types of integration? >> I think we're starting to see that. I think it's definitely an evolving aspect of what's going on as, some low level examples that I can share with you on that are, we have some large global customers that have regional SAP environments, they might run one for North America, one for South America, Europe, and Asia-Pacific. Well they're consolidating them, some of those restrictions have been removed and now they're working on consolidating those regional instances into one global SAP instance. And if they're using that as a catalyst to move to Hana, that's really where you're getting into that realm where you're taking pieces that used to have to be distributed and broken up, and bringing them together, and if you can bring the structured enterprise application data on the SAP side together, now you can start moving towards some of the other aspects of the data like the analytics pieces. >> But you still have to worry about IOT, which is where are we going to process the data? Are we going to bring it back? Are we going to do it locally? You're worrying about sources external to your business, how you're going to move them in so that their intellectual property is controlled, my intellectual property is controlled, there's a lot of work that has to go in to thinking about the role that data movement is going to play within business design. >> Absolutely, and I actually think that that's part of the pieces that need to evolve over the next couple of years, it's kind of like the first time that you were here and heard about Hana, and here we are eight years later, and we understand the vision and the roadmap that that's played. That's happening now too, when you talk to SAP customers, some of them have clearly adopted the Hadoop technology and figured out how to make that work. You've got SAP Vora technology to bring data in and out of Hana from Hadoop, but that stuff is all brand new, we're not talking to a lot of customers that are using those. They're on the roadmap, they're looking at ways to do it, how to do it, but right now it's part of the roadmap. I think what's going to be key for us at Attunity is really helping customers blend that data, that IOT data, that social media stream data, with structured data from SAP. If I can take my customer master out of SAP and have that participate with IOT data, or if I can take my equipment master data out of SAP and combine that with Vlog data, IOT Data, I can start really doing predictive analytics, and if I can do those predictive analytics, with that unstructured data, I can use that to automate features within my enterprise application, so for example, if I know a part's going to fail, between 500 and 1000 hours of use, then I can proactively create maintenance tickets, or service notifications or something, so we can repair the device before it actually breaks. >> So talk about the, for the folks out there who want to kind of know the Attunity story a bit more, take a minute to explain kind of where you fit in, and where you, where SAP hands off to you, and where you fit specifically because big data management, there's are important technologies, but some say, well doesn't SAP have that? So where's the hand off? Where do you guys sister up against these guys the best? How should customers, or potential customers, know when to call you and what not. >> So, I often refer to SAP as a 747 Jumbo Jet right? So it's the big plane, and it's got everything in it. Anything at all, and all that you need to do, you could probably do it somewhere inside of SAP. There's an application for it, there's a platform for it, there's now a database for it, there's everything. So, a lot of customers work only in that realm, but there's a lot of customers that work outside of that too, SAP's an important part of the enterprise landscape, but there's other pieces too. >> People are nibbling at the solution, not fully baked out SAP. >> Right, right. >> You do one App. >> Yeah, and SAP's great at providing tools for example, to load data into Hana, there's a lot of capability to take non-SAP source data and bring it into Hana. But, what if you want to move that data around? What if you wanted to do some things different with it? What if you wanted to move some data out and back in? What if you want to, you know there's just a lot of things you want to be able to do with the data, and if you're all in on the SAP side, and you're all into the Hana platform, and that's what you're doing, you've probably got all the pieces to do that. But if you've got some pieces that are outside of that, and you need it all to play together, that's where Attunity comes in great, because Attunity has that, we're impartial to that, we can take data and move it around wherever, of course SAP is a really important part of our play in what we do, but we need to understand what the customers are doing, and everyday we talk to customers that are always looking, >> Give an example, give it a good example of that, customer that you've worked with, use a case. >> Yeah, let's see, most of my examples are going to be SAP centric, >> That's okay. >> We've got a couple of customers, I don't know if I can mention their names, where they come to us and say, "Hey we've got all this SAP data, and we might have 30 different SAP systems and we need all of that SAP data to pull together for us to be able to analyze it, and then we have non-SAP data that we want to partner with that as well. There might be terra-data, there might be Hadoop, might be some Oracle applications that are external that touch in, and these companies have these complex visions of figuring out how to do it, so when you look at Attunity and what we provide, we've got all these great solutions, we've got the replication technology, we've got the data model on the SAP side to copy the SAP data, we now have the data warehouse automation solution with Compose that keeps finding niche ways to work in, to be highly viable. >> But the main purpose is moving data around within SAP, give or take the Jumbo Jet, or 737. >> Well sometimes you just got to go down to the store and buy a half gallon of milk, right? And you're not going to jump on a Jumbo Jet to go down and get the milk. >> Right. >> You need tooling that makes it easy to get it. >> Got milk, it's the new slogan. Got data. >> Well there you go, the marketing side now. >> Okay so, vibe of the show, what's your take at SAP here, you've been here nine years, you've been looking around the landscape, you guys have been evolving with it, certainly it's exciting now. You're hearing really concrete examples of SAP showing some of the dashboards that McDermott's been showing every year, I remember when the iPad came out, "Oh the iPad's the most amazing thing", of course analytics is pretty obvious. That stuffs now coming to fruition, so there's a lot of growth going on, what's your vibe of the show? You seeing that, can you share any color commentary? Hallway conversations? >> Yeah, Sapphire's, you know, you get everything. You know it's like you said, the half gallon of milk, well we're at the supermarket right now, you need milk, you need eggs, you need flowers, whatever you need is here. >> The cake can be baked, if you have all the ingredients, Steve Job's says "put good frosting on it". (laughs) That's a UX. >> Lots of butter and lots of sugar. But yeah there's so many different focuses here at Sapphire, that it's a very broad show and you have an opportunity, for us it's a great opportunity to work with our partners closer, and it's also a good opportunity to talk to out customers, and certain levels within our customers, CIO's, VIP's. >> They're all together, they're all here. >> Right exactly, and you get to hear what their broader vision is, because every day we're talking to customers, and yeah we're hearing their broader vision, but here we hear more of it in a very confined space, and we get to map that up against our roadmap and see what we're doing and kind of say, yeah we're on the right track, I mean we need to be on the right track in two fronts. First and foremost with our customers, and second of all with SAP. And part of our long term success has been watching SAP and saying "okay, we can see where they're going with this, we can see where they're going with this, and this one they're driving really fast on, we've got to get on this track, you know, Hana. >> So the folks watching that aren't here, any highlights that you'd like to share? >> Wow, well you guys said yourself, Reggie Jackson was here the other night, that was pretty fantastic. I'm a huge baseball fan, go Cubby's, but it was fun to see Reggie Jackson. >> Park Ball, you know you had a share of calamities, I'm a Red Sox's man. >> Yeah you're wounds have been healed though (laughs). >> We've had the Holy Water been thrown from Babe Ruth. It was great that Reggie though was interesting, because we talk about a baseball concept that was about the unwritten rules, we saw Batista get cold-cocked a couple of days ago, and it brought up this whole unwritten rules, and we kind of had a tie in to business, which is the rules are changing, certainly in the business that we're in, and he talked about the unwritten rules of Baseball and at the end he said, "No, they aren't unwritten rules, they're written" And he was hardcore like MLB should not be messing with the game. >> Yeah. >> I mean Batista got fined, I think, what, five games? Was that the key mount? >> Yeah, yup. >> Didn't he get one game, and the guy that punched him got eight. >> That's right, he got it, eight games, that's right. So okay, MLB's putting pressure on them for structuring the game, should we let this stuff go? We came in late, second base, okay, what's your take on that? >> Well I mean as a Baseball fan I love the unwritten rules, I love the fact that the players police the game. >> Well that's what he was talking about, in his mind that's exactly what he was saying. That the rules amongst the players for policing the game are very, very well understood, and if Baseball tries to legislate and take it out of the players hands, it's going to lead to a whole bunch of chaotic behavior, and it's probably right. >> Yeah, and you've already got replay, and what was it, the Met's guy said he misses arguing with the umpires, and the next day he got thrown out (laughs). >> Probably means he wanted to get thrown out, needed a day off. What's going on with Attunity, what's next for you guys? What's next show, what's put on the business,. >> So, show-wise this is one of our most important shows of the year, events of the year, well I'll always be a tech-head, tech-heads are very targeted audience for us, we have a new version of Gold Client that's out a bit later this month, more under the hood stuff, just making things faster, and aligning it better with Hana and things like that, but we're really focused on integrating the solutions at Attunity right now. I mean you look at Attunity and Attunity had grown by acquisition, the RepliWeb acquisition in '11, and the acquisition of my company in 2013, we've added Compose, we've added Visibility, so now we've got this breath of solutions here and we're now knitting them together, and they're really coming together nicely. The Compose product, the data warehouse automation, I mean it's a new concept, but every time we show it to somebody they love it. You can't really point it at a SAP database, cause the data mile's too complex, but for data warehouse's of applications that have simple data models where you just need to do some data warehousing, basic data warehouses, it's phenomenal. And we've even figured out with SAP how we can break down certain aspects of that data, like just the financial data. If we just break down the financial data, can we create some replication and some change data capture there using the replicate technology and then feed it into Compose, provide a simple data warehouse solution that basic users can use. You know, you've got your BW, you've got your business objects and all that, but there's always that lower level, we're always talking to customers where they're still doing stuff like downloading contents of tables into spreadsheets and working with it, so Compose kind of a niche there. The visibility being able to identify what data's being used and what's not used, we're looking at combining that and pointing that at an SAP system and combining that with archiving technology and data retention technologies to figure out how we can tell a customer, alright here's your data retention policies, but here's where you're touching and not touching your data, and how can we move that around and get that out. >> Great stuff Matt, thanks for coming on theCube, appreciate that, if anything else I got to congratulate you on your success and, again, it's early stages and it's just going to get bigger and bigger, you know having that robust platform, and remember, not everyone runs their entire business on SAP, so there's a lot of other data warehouses coming round the corner. >> Yeah that's for sure, and we're well positioned and well aligned to deal with all types of data, me as an SAP guy, I love working with SAP data, but we've got a broader vision, and I think our broader visions really align nicely with what our customers want. >> Inter-operating the data, making it work for you, Got Data's new slogan here on theCube, we're going to coin that, 'Got Milk', 'Got Data'. Thanks to Peter Burris, bringing the magic here on theCube, we are live in Orlando, you're watching theCube. (techno music) >> Voiceover: There'll be millions of people in the near future that will want to be involved in their own personal well-being and wellness.

>>Yeah, yeah, >>Hello. We're back with Today's the last session in the creating engaging analytics experiences for all track breaking down data silos. A conversation with Snowflake on Western Union Earlier today, we did a few deep dives into the thought spot product with sessions on thoughts about one. Thoughts were everywhere on spot. Take you to close out this track. We're joined by industry leading experts Christian Kleinerman s VP of product at Snowflake and Tom Matzzie, Pharaoh, chief data officer at Western Union, for a thought provoking conversation on data transformation on how to avoid the pitfalls of traditional analytics. They'll be discussing in key challenges faced by organizations, why user engagement matters and looking towards the future of the industry. No Joining Thomas and Christian in conversation is Angela Cooper, vice president of customer success at Thought spot. Thank you all for being here today. We're so excited for what is what this conversation has in store. Handing it over now to Christian to kick things off. >>Hi. So, a few years ago, when when someone asked about Snowflake, the most common answer, it was like, what is snowflake and what do you do? Hopefully in the last couple off months, things have changed and and here I am showing a couple of momentum data points on, uh, where we have accomplished here it Snowflake. So we we have received Ah, a lot of attention and buzz. Recently, we were listed in the New York Stock Exchange And we even though we still think of ourselves as a small start up company, we have crossed the 2000 employees mark. More important, we count with 3 3000 plus amazing customers. And something that we obsess about is the a satisfaction of our customers. We really are working hard. The laboring technology that having a platform for better decisions, better analytics and then the promoters course off 71 depicted here is a testament of that. And last, but certainly not least about snowflake. It's very important that we know that we succeed with our partners. We know that we don't go to market by ourselves. We actually have Ah, fantastic set of partners and of course, thoughts. But it is one of our most important partners. >>Good morning. Good afternoon. Eso Amman Thomas affair on the chief kid officer here at Western Union. It's gonna be a background of a Western union and what we, uh, what we do and how we service our customers. So today we are in over 200 countries and territories worldwide. We have a 550,000 retail Asian network to service all of our customers, uh, needs from what he transfer and picking up in a depositing cash. We also have our digital transformation underway, where we now have educate abilities up and running and over 35 countries with paled options to accounts in over 120 countries. We think about our overall business and how support are over our customers and our services. It really has transformed over the past 12 months with Cove it and it's part of that We have to be able to really accelerate our transformation on a digital front to help to enable in the super those customers going forward. Eso as part of that, You know, a big, big help in a big supporter of that transformation has been snowflake and has been thought spot as part of that transformation. If you go the next to the next slide are our current, uh B I in our illegal tools right to date, uh, have been very useful up until the last one or two years. As data explodes and as as our customer needs transform and as our solutions and our time to act in our time to react in the overall market becomes faster and faster, we need to be able to basically look across our entire company, our entire organization and cross functionally to visit to leverage data leverage our insights to really basically pivot our overall business and our overall model to support our customers and our and to enable those services and products going forward. So as part of that, snowflakes been a huge part of that journey, right, allowing us to consolidate over our 30 plus data stores across the company on able to really leverage that overall data and insights to drive, uh, quick reaction right with the pivot, our business offered to enable new services and improve customer experiences going forward and then being able to use a snowflake and then being put the applications on top of that like thought spot, which allows, uh, users that are both technical and nontechnical to the go in and just, um, ask the question as if the searching on Google or Yahoo or being they can just ask any question they want and then get the results back in real time, made that business call and then really go forward through these is this larger ecosystem as a whole. It's really enabled us to really transform our business and supporter customers going forward. >>Wonderful. Thank you, Tom. Thank you, Christian, for the overview of both snowflake and Western Union. Both have big presence in Denver, which is where Tom and I are tonight. Um, I'm here. I'm the vice president of customer success for Thought spot, and I wanted to ask both of you some questions about the industry and specific things that you're facing within Western Union. So first I was hoping Christian that you could talk to me a little bit about Snowflake has thousands of customers at this point, servicing essentially located data sets. But what are you seeing? Has been the top challenges that businesses air facing and how it snowflake uniquely positioned to help. Yeah, >>so certainly the think the challenges air made. I would say that the macro challenge above everything is how to turn data into a competitive differentiator, their study after study that says companies that embrace data and insights and analytics they are outperforming their competitors. So that would be my macro challenge. Once you go into the next level, maybe I can think of three elements. The first one Tom already perfectly teed up the topic of of silence and the reality For most organizations, data is fragmented across different database systems. Even filed systems in some instances transactional databases, analytical data bases and what customers expect is to have, ah, unified experience like I am dealing with company extra company. Why? And I really don't care if behind the scenes there's 10 different teams or 100 different systems. I just want a unified experience. And the Congress is true. The opportunity to deliver personalized custom experiences is reliant on a single view of the day. The other topic that comes to mind this is the one of data governance, Um, as data becomes more important than a reorganization, understanding the constraints and security and privacy also become critical to not only advanced data capability but do it doing so responsibly and within the norms off regulation and the last one which is something court to tow our vision. We are pioneering the concept of the data cloud and the challenge that that we're addressing there is the problem around access to data, right. You can no longer as an organization think of making decisions just on your own data. But there's lots of data collaboration, data enrichment. Maybe I wanna put my data in context. And that's what we're trying to simplify and democratize access and simplify connecting to the data that improves decisions on all three fronts. Obviously, we're obsessed. That's no bling on on tearing down the silos on delivering a solution that is very focused on data governance. And for sure, the data cloud simplifies access to data. >>Wonderful. Now, I know we we really focused on those data silos is a business challenge. But Tom, going through your digital transformation journey are there specific challenges that you faced with Western Union That thought spot and snowflake have helped you overcome? >>Yeah. So? So first off fully agree what Christian just said, right? Those are absolutely, you know, problems that we faced. And we've had overcome, um, service, any company right being able to the transforming to modernize the cloud. Um, for us, one of the biggest things is being able to not just access our information, but have it in a way that it can be consumed, right? Have it in a way that it could be understood, right? Have it in a way that we can then drive business business decision points and and be able to use that information to either fix a problem that we see or better service our customers or offer a product that we're seeing right now is a miss in the marketplace to service in a underserved community or underserved, um, customer base. Also, from our standpoint, being able toe look, um um, uh and predict in forecast what's going to happen and be able to use that information and use our insights to then be proactive and thio in either, You know, be thoughtful about how do we shift our focus, or how do we then change our strategy to take advantage of that for that forecast in that position that we're seeing into the future? >>Wonderful. I've heard from many customers you could not have predicted what was going to happen to our businesses in the year 2020 with the traditional models and especially with what did you say? 30 plus different data silos. Being able to do that type of prediction across those systems must have been very, very difficult. You also mentioned going through a digital transformation at Western Union. So can you talk to me, Tom? A little bit about kind of present day? And why? Why is it important to enable your frontline knowledge workers with the right data at the right time with the right technology? >>Yeah, so? So you're spot on, by the way. But, uh, no one predicted that that we would have a pandemic that would literally consume the entire globe right And change how consumers, um uh, use and buy services and products, or how economies would either shut down or at the reopening shut down again. And then how different interests to be impacted by this? Right. So, uh, what we learned and what we were able to pivot was being able to do exactly what you just said, right. Being able to understand what's happening the date of the right time, right then being able to with the right technology with the right capabilities, understand? what's happening. I understand. Then what should our pivot be? And how should we then go focus on that pivot to go into go and transform? I think it's e. It's more than just just the front lines. Also, our executives. It's also are back office operations, right, because as you think through this, right as customers were having issues right, go into retail locations that were closed. It end of Q one Earlier, Q two. We obviously had a a large surplus right of phone calls coming into our call centers, asking for help, asking for How can we transact better? Where can we go? Right? How do we handle the operationally? Right? As we had a massive surge onto our digital platform where we were, we had 100% increase year over year in Q one and Q two. How do we make sure that our platform the technology can scale right and still provide the right S L A's and and and and the right, um uh, support to our internal customers as well as our extra customers in the future? Eso so really interesting, though, you know, on on on the front line side, our sales staff, right? And even our front line associates with our agent locations A to retail side, you know, for us, is really around. How do we best support them? So how do we partner with them to understand? You know, when a certain certain governments or certain, uh, regions were going toe lock down, how do we support them to keep them open, right. How do we make them a essential service going forward? How do we enable them? Right, the Wright systems or technology to do things a bit differently than they have in the past to adopt right with the changing times. But, you know, I'll tell you the amount of transformation in the basement we've done this year, I think you know, has a massive and actually on Lee, you know, created a larger wave for us to actually ride into the future as we can, to base to innovate, you know, in partnership with both thought spot and with the snowflake into the future. >>Absolutely. I've seen many, many a industry analyst reports talking about how companies now in 2020 have accelerated that digital transformation movement because of current day. In current time, Christian What are you seeing with the rest of the industry and other global companies about enabling data across the globe at the right time? >>Yeah, so I can't agree more with with with with what? Tom said. And he gave some very, um, compelling and very riel use cases where the timeliness of data and and and and and at the right time concept make a big difference. Right? They aske part of our data marketplace with snowflake with deliver, for example, um, up to date low ladies information on, uh, covert 19 data sets where we're infection spiking. And what were the trends? And the use case was very, very riel. Every single company was trying to make sense of the numbers. Uh, all machine learning models were sort of like, out of whack, because no trends and no patterns may make sense anymore. And it was They need to be able to join my data and my activity with this health data set and make decisions at the right time. Imagine if if the cycle to makes all these decisions waas Ah, monthlong. You would never catch up, right? And he speaks to tow a concept that it that is, um, dear, it wasa snowflake and is the lifetime value data right? The notion of ableto act on a piece of data on an event at the right time and obviously with the slow laden see it's possible, makes a big difference. And and there is no end of example. Stomach gives her all again very compelling ones. Um, there's many others, but if you're running a marketing campaign and would you want to know five minutes later that it's not working out, you're burning your daughters? Or would you want to know the next day? Or if someone is going to give you you have a subscription based business and you're going toe, for example, have a model that predicts the turn of your customer? How useful is if you find out Hey, your customer is gonna turn, but you found out two months later. Once probably you are really toe action and change the outcome. Eyes different and and and this order to manage that I'm talking about days or months are not uncommon. Many organizations today, and that's where the topic of right technology matters. Um, I love asking questions about Do you know, an organization and customers. Do you run data, transformations and ingests at two and three in the morning? And the most common answer is yes. And then you start asking why. And usually the answer is some flavor off technology made me do it and a big part of what we're trying to do, like what we're pioneering is. How about ingesting data, transforming data enriching data when the business needs it at the right time with the right timeliness? Not when the technology had cycles. So they were Scipio available, so the importance can't be overstated. There is value in in in analyzing understanding data on time, and we provide technology and platform to any of this. >>That's such a good point. Christian. We ended up on Lee doing processes and loading in the middle of the night because that's what the technology at that time would allow. You couldn't have the concurrency. You couldn't have, um, data happening all at the same time. And so wonderful point that stuff like enables. I think another piece that's interesting that you guys a hit on is that it's important to have the same user experiencing user interface at the right time. And so what I found talking to customers. And Tom what? You and I have discussed this. When you have 30 different data sets and you have a interface that's different, you have a legacy reports system. Maybe you have excel on top of another. You have thought spot on one. You have your dashboard of choice on another, those different sources in different ways. To view that data, it can all be so disjointed. And the combination of thought spot with snowflake and all the data in one place with a centralized, unified user experience just helps users take advantage off the insights that they need right at that right moment. So kind of finishing up for our last question for today I'm interested to hear about Christian will go back to you quickly about what do you see from snowflakes? Perspective is ahead. Future facing for data and analytics. >>One of the topics you just alluded toe Angela, which is the fact that many data sets are gonna be part of the processes by which we make decisions and that that's where were the experience with thoughts but a single unified search experience for a single unified. Um automatic insects, which is what's para que does That is the future, right? I I don't think that x many years from now on, and I think that that X is a small number. Organizations are going to say I had some business activity. I collected some data. I did some analysis and I have conclusions because it always has to be okay, put it in context or look at industry trends and look at other activity that can help him make more sense about my data. The example of tracking they covert are breaking is ah, timely one. But you can always say go on, put it in context with, I don't know, maybe the GDP of the country or the adoption of a platform and things like that. So I think that's ah big trend on having multiple data sets. Contributing towards better decisions towards better product experience is for better services. And, of course, Snowflake is trying to do its part, is doing its part with vision and simplify answers today and the answer on hot spot simplifying blending the interface so that would be super useful. The other big piece, of course, is, um, Predictive Analytics people Talk machine Learning and AI, which is a little bit to buzz worthy. But it is true that we have the technology to drive predictions and and do a better job of understanding behaviors off what's supposed to happen based on understanding the best and the last one. If if if I'm allowed one. Exco What's ahead for data industry, which sounds obvious, but But we're not all the way. There is both cloud the adoption and moving to the cloud as well as the topic of multi Cloud. Increasingly, I think we we finally shifted conversations from Should I go to the cloud or not? Now it's How fast do I do it? And increasingly what we hear is I may want to take the best of the different clouds and how doe I go in and and and embrace a multi cloud reality without having to learn 100 plus different services and nuances of services on on every car and this work technologies like snowflake and thoughts about that can can support a different multiple deployment are being well received by different customs, nerve fault, >>Tom industry trends, or one thing I know. Western Union is really leading in the digital transformation and in your space, What's next for Western Union? >>Yeah, so just add on Requip Thio Christian before I dive into a Western Union use case just to your point. Christian, I really see a convergence happening between how people today work or or manage their personal life, where the applications, the user experiences and the responses are at your fingertips. Easy to use don't need to learn different tools. It's just all there, right, whether you're an android user or an apple user rights, although your fingertips I ask you the same innovation and transmission happening now on the work side, where I see to your point right a convergence happening where not just that the technology teams but even the business teams. They wanna have that same feature, that same functionality, where all their insights their entire way to interact with the business with the business teams with their data with their systems with their products for their services are at their fingertips right where they can go and they can make a change on an iPad or an iPhone and instant effect. They can go change a rule. They could go and modify Uh uh, an algorithm. They can go and look at expanding their product base, and it's just there. It's instant now. This would take time, right? Because this is going to be a transformational journey right across many different industries, but it's part of that. I really see that type of instant gratification, uh, satisfaction, that type of being able to instantly get those insights. Be able thio to really, you know, do what you do on your personal life in your work life every single day. That trend is absolutely it's actually happening. And it's kind of like tag team that into what we're doing at Western Union is exactly that we are actually transforming how our business teams, uh, in our technology teams are able to interact with our customers, interact with our products, interact with our services, interact with our data and our systems instantly. Right? Perfect example that it's that spot where they could go on typing any question they want. And they instigate an answer like that that that was unheard of a year ago, at least for our business. Right being able to to to go and put in in a new rule and and have it flow through the rules engine and have an instant customer impact that's coming right. Being able to instantly change or configure a new product or service with new fee structure and launch in 15 minutes. That's coming, right? All these new transformations about how do we actually better, uh, leverage our capabilities, our products and our services to meet those customer demands instantly. That's where I see the industry going the next couple of years. >>Wonderful. Um, excited to have both of you on the panel this afternoon. So thank you so much for joining us, Christian and Tom as just a quick wrap up. I, you know, learned quite a bit about industry trends and the problems facing companies today. And from the macro view with snowflake and thousands of customers and thought spots, customers and Western Union. The underlying theme is data unity, right? No more fragmented silos, no more fragmented user experiences, but truly bringing everything together in a governed safe way for users. Toe have trust in the data to have trust in what to answer and what insight is being put in front of them. And all of this pulled together so that businesses can make those better decisions more informed and more personalized. Consumer like experiences for your customers in modern technology stacks. So again, thank you both today for joining us, and we look forward to many more conversations in the future. Thank you >>for having me very happy to be here. >>Thank you so much. >>Thanks. >>Thank you, Angela. And thank you, Tom and Christian for sharing your stories. It was really interesting to hear how the events of this year have prompted Western Union to accelerate their digital transformation with snowflake and thought spot and just reflecting on alot sessions in this track, I love seeing how we're making the search experience even easier and even more consumer like in that first session and then moving on to the second session with our customer Hayes. It was really impressive to see how quickly they'd embedded thought spot into their own MD audit product. And then, of course, we heard about Spot Ike, which is making it easier for everybody to get to the Y faster with automated insights. So I'm afraid that wraps up the sessions in this track. We've come to an end, But remember to join us for the exciting product roadmap session coming right up. And then after that, put your questions to the speakers that you've heard in Track two in I'll meet the Experts Roundtable, creating engaging analytics experiences for all. Now all that remains is for me to say thank you for joining us. We really appreciate you taking the time. I hope it's been interesting and valuable. And if it has, we'd love to pick up with you for a 1 to 1 conversation Bye for now.

>>Yeah, yeah. >>Welcome back to session, too. Thoughts about everywhere. Unlock new revenue streams with embedded search and I Today we're joined by our senior director of Global Oh am Rick Dimel, along with speakers from our thoughts about customer Hayes to discuss how thought spot is open for everyone by unlocking unprecedented value through data search in A I, you'll see how thoughts about compound analytics in your applications and hear how industry leaders are creating new revenue streams with embedded search and a I. You'll also learn how to increase app stickiness on how to create an autonomous this experience for your end users. I'm delighted to introduce our senior director of Global OPM from Phillips Spot, Rick DeMARE on then British Ramesh, chief technology officer, and Leon Roof, director of product management, both from Hayes over to you. Rick, >>Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Hi, everybody. We're here to talk to you about Fox Spot everywhere are branded version of our embedded analytics application. It really our analytics application is all about user experience. And in today's world, user experience could mean a lot of things in ux design methodologies. We want to talk about the things that make our product different from an embedded perspective. If you take a look at what product managers and product design people and engineers are doing in this space, they're looking at a couple of key themes when they design applications for us to consume. One of the key things in the marketplace today is about product led growth, where the product is actually the best marketing tool for the business, not even the sales portion or the marketing department. The product, by the word of mouth, is expanding and getting more people onto the system. Why is that important? It's important because within the first few days of any application, regardless of what it is being used binding users, 70% of those users will lose. Interest will stop coming back. Why do they stop coming back? Because there's no ah ha moment through them. To get engaged within the technology, today's technologies need to create a direct relationship with the user. There can't be a gatekeeper between the user and the products, such as marketing or sales or information. In our case. Week to to make this work, we have toe leverage learning models in leverage learning as it's called Thio. Get the user is engaged, and what that means is we have to give them capabilities they already know how to use and understand. There are too many applications on the marketplace today for for users to figure out. So if we can leverage the best of what other APS have, we can increase the usage of our systems. Because in today's world, what we don't want to do from a product perspective is lead the user to a dead end or from a product methodology. Our perspective. It's called an empty state, and in our world we do that all the time. In the embedded market place. If you look at at the embedded marketplace, it's all visualizations and dashboards, or what I call check engine lights in your application's Well, guess what happens when you hit a check engine life. You've got to call the dealer to get more information about what just took place. The same thing happens in the analytic space where we provide visualizations to users. They get an indicator, but they have to go through your gatekeepers to get access to the real value of that data. What am I looking at? Why is it important the best user experiences out on the marketplace today? They are autonomous. If we wanna leverage the true value of digital transformation, we have to allow our developers to develop, not have them, the gatekeepers to the rial, content to users want. And in today's world, with data growing at much larger and faster levels than we've ever seen. And with that shelf life or value of that data being much shorter and that data itself being much more fragmented, there's no developer or analysts that can create enough visualizations or dashboards in the world to keep the consumption or desire for these users to get access to information up to speed. Clients today require the ability to sift through this information on their own to customize their own content. And if we don't support this methodology, our users are gonna end up feeling powerless and frustrated and coming back to us. The gatekeepers of that information for more information. Loyalty, conversely, can be created when we give the users the ability toe access this information on their own. That is what product like growth is all about in thought spot, as you know we're all about search. It's simple. It's guided as we type. It gives a super fast responses, but it's also smart on the back end handling complexities, and it's really safe from a governance and as well as who gets access to what perspective it's unknown learned environment. Equally important in that learned environment is this expectation that it's not just search on music. It's actually gonna recommend content to me on the fly instantly as I try content I might not even thought of before. Just the way Spotify recommends music to us or Netflix recommends a movie. This is a expected learned behavior, and we don't want to support that so that they can get benefit and get to the ah ha moments much quicker. In the end, which consumption layer do you want to use, the one that leads you to the Dead End Street or the one that gets you to the ah ha moment quickly and easily and does it in an autonomous fashion. Needless to say, the benefits of autonomous user access are well documented today. Natural language search is the wave of the future. It is today. By 2004 75% of organizations are going to be using it. The dashboard is dead. It's no longer going to be utilized through search today, I if we can improve customer satisfaction and customer productivity, we're going to increase pretensions of our retention of our applications. And if we do that just a little bit, it's gonna have a tremendous impact to our bottom line. The way we deploy hotspots. As you know, from today's conversations in the cloud, it could be a manage class, not offering or could be software that runs in your own VPC. We've talked about that at length at this conference. We've also talked about the transformation of application delivery from a Cloud Analytics perspective at length here it beyond. But we apply those same principles to your product development. The benefits are astronomical because not only do you get architectural flexibility to scale up and scale down and right size, but your engineers will increase their productivity because their offerings, because their time and effort is not going to be spent on delivering analytics but delivering their offerings. The speed of innovation isn't gonna be released twice a year or four times a year. It's gonna It can happen on a weekly basis, so your time to market in your margins should increase significantly. At this point, I want a hand. The microphone over to Revert. Tesche was going to tell you a little bit about what they're doing. It hes for cash. >>Thanks, Rick. I just want to introduce myself to the audience. My name is Rotational. Mention the CTO Europe ace. I'm joined my today by my colleague Gillian Ruffles or doctor of product management will be demoing what we have built with thoughts about, >>um but >>just to my introduction, I'm going to talk about five key things. Talk about what we do. What hes, uh we have Really, um what we went through the select that spot with other competitors What we have built with that spot very quickly and last but not least, some lessons learned during the implementation. So just to start with what we do, uh, we're age. We are health care compliance and revenue integrity platform were a saas platform voter on AWS were very short of l A. That's it. Use it on these around 1 50 customers across the U. S. On these include large academic Medical Insight on. We have been in the compliant space for the last 30 plus years, and we were traditionally consulting company. But very recently we have people did more towards software platform model, uh, in terms off why we chose that spot. There were three business problems that I faced when I took this job last year. At age number one is, uh, should be really rapidly deliver new functionality, nor platform, and he agile because some of our product development cycles are in weeks and not months. Hey had a lot of data, which we collected traditionally from the SAS platform, and all should be really create inside stretch experience for our customers. And then the third Big one is what we saw Waas large for customers but really demanding self service capabilities. But they were really not going for the static dash boats and and curated content, but instead they wanted to really use the cell service capabilities. Thio mind the data and get some interesting answers during their questions. So they elevated around three products around these problems statements, and there were 14 reasons why we just start spot number one wars off course. The performance and speed to insights. Uh, we had around 800 to a billion robot of data and we wanted to really kind of mind the data and set up the data in seconds on not minutes and hours. We had a lot of out of the box capabilities with that spot, be it natural language search, predictive algorithms. And also the interactive visualization, which, which was which, Which gave us the agility Thio deliver these products very quickly. And then, uh, the end user experience. We just wanted to make sure that I would users can use this interface s so that they can very quickly, um, do some discovery of data and get some insights very quickly. On last but not least, talksport add a lot of robust AP ice around the platform which helped us embed tot spot into are offering. But those are the four key reasons which we went for thoughts part which we thought was, uh, missing in in the other products we evaluated performance and search, uh, the interactive visualization, the end user experience, and last but not least flexible AP ice, which we could customize into our platform in terms of what we built. We were trying to solve to $50 billion problem in health care, which is around denials. Um so every year, around 2, 50 to $300 billion are denied by players thes air claims which are submitted by providers. And we built offering, which we called it US revenue optimizer. But in plain English, what revenue optimizer does is it gives the capability tow our customers to mind that denials data s so that they can really understand why the claims were being denied. And under what category? Recent reasons. We're all the providers and quarters who are responsible for these claims, Um, that were dryland denials, how they could really do some, uh, prediction off. It is trending based on their historical denial reasons. And then last but not least, we also build some functionality in the platform where we could close the loop between insights, action and outcome that Leon will be showing where we could detect some compliance and revenue risks in the platform. On more importantly, we could, uh, take those risks, put it in a I would say, shopping card and and push it to the stakeholders to take corrective action so the revenue optimizer is something which we built in three months from concept to lunch and and that that pretty much prove the value proposition of thoughts. But while we could kind of take it the market within a short period of time Next leopard >>in terms >>off lessons learned during the implementation thes air, some of the things that came to my mind asses, we're going through this journey. The first one is, uh, focus on the use case formulation, outcomes and wishful story boarding. And that is something that hot spot that's really balance. Now you can you can focus on your business problem formulation and not really focus on your custom dash boarding and technology track, etcetera. So I think it really helped our team to focus on the versus problem, to focus on the outcomes from the problem and more importantly, really spend some time on visualizing What story are we say? Are we trying to say to our customers through revenue optimizer The second lesson learned first When we started this implementation, we did not dualistic data volume and capacity planning exercise and we learned it our way. When we are we loaded a lot of our data sets into that spot. And then Aziz were doing performance optimization. XYZ. We figured out that we had to go back and shot the infrastructure because the data volumes are growing exponentially and we did not account for it. So the biggest lesson learned This is part of your architectural er planning, exercise, always future proof your infrastructure and make sure that you work very closely with the transport engineering team. Um, to make sure that the platform can scale. Uh, the last two points are passport as a robust set of AP Ice and we were able to plug into those AP ice to seamlessly ended the top spot software into a platform. And last but not least, one thing I would like to closest as we start these projects, it's very common that the solution design we run into a lot of surprises. The one thing I should say is, along those 12 weeks, we very closely work with the thoughts, part architecture and accounting, and they were a great partner to work with us to really understand our business problem, and they were along the way to kind of government suggested, recommends and workarounds and more importantly, also, helpers put some other features and functionality which you requested in their engineering roadmap. So it's been a very successful partnership. Um, So I think the biggest take of it is please make sure that you set up your project and operating model value ember thoughts what resources and your team to make sure that they can help you as you. It's some obstacles in the projects so that you can meet your time ones. Uh, those are the key lessons learned from the implementation. And with that, I would pass this to my colleague Leon Rough was going to show you a demo off what we go. >>Thanks for Tesh. So when we were looking Thio provide this to our customer base, we knew that not everyone needed do you access or have available to them the same types of information or at the same particular level of information. And we do have different roles within RMD auto Enterprise platform. So we did, uh, minimize some roles to certain information. We drew upon a persona centric approach because we knew that those different personas had different goals and different reasons for wanting to drive into these insights, and those different personas were on three different levels. So we're looking at the executive level, which is more on the C suite. Chief Compliance Officer. We have a denial trending analyses pin board, which is more for the upper, uh, managers and also exact relatives if they're interested. And then really, um, the targeted denial analysis is more for the day to day analysts, um, the usage so that they could go in and they can really see where the trends are going and how they need to take action and launch into the auditing workflow so within the executive or review, Um, and not to mention that we were integrating and implementing this when everyone was we were focused on co vid. So as you can imagine, just without covert in the picture, our customers are concentrated on denials, and that's why they utilize our platform so they could minimize those risks and then throw in the covert factor. Um, you know, those denial dollars increase substantially over the course of spring and the summer, and we wanted to be able to give them ah, good view of the denials in aggregate as well as's we focus some curated pin boards specific to those areas that were accounting for those high developed denials. So on the Executive Overview Board, we created some banner tiles. The banner tiles are pretty much a blast of information for executives thes air, particular areas where there concentrating and their look looking at those numbers consistently so it provides them away to take a good look at that and have that quick snapshot. Um, more importantly, we did offer as I mentioned some curated pin boards so that it would give customers this turnkey access. They wouldn't necessarily have to wonder, You know, what should I be doing now on Day one, but the day one that we're providing to them these curated insights leads the curiosity and increases that curiosity so that they can go in and start creating their own. But the base curated set is a good overview of their denial dollars and those risks, and we used, um, a subject matter expert within our organization who worked in the field. So it's important to know you know what you're targeting and why you're targeting it and what's important to these personas. Um, not everyone is necessarily interests in all the same information, and you want to really hit on those critical key point to draw them and, um, and allowed them that quick access and answer those questions they may have. So in this particular example, the curated insight that we created was a monthly denial amount by functional area. And as I was mentioning being uber focused on co vid, you know, a lot of scrutiny goes back to those organizations, especially those coding and H i M departments, um, to ensure that their coding correctly, making sure that players aren't sitting on, um, those payments or denying those payments. So if I were in executive and I came in here and this was interesting to me and I want to drill down a little bit, I might say, You know, let me focus more on the functional area than I know probably is our main concern. And that's coating and h i M. And because of it hit in about the early winter. I know that those claims came in and they weren't getting paid until springtime. So that's where I start to see a spike. And what's nice is that the executive can drill down, they may have a hunch, or they can utilize any of the data attributes we made available to them from the Remittance file. So all of these data, um, attributes are related to what's being sent on the 8 35 fear familiar with the anti 8 35 file. So in particular, if I was curious and had a suspicion that these were co vid related or just want to concentrate in that area, um, we have particular flag set up. So the confirmed and suspected cases are pulling in certain diagnosis and procedure codes. And I might say 1.27 million is pretty high. Um, toe look at for that particular month, and then they have the ability to drill down even further. Maybe they want to look at a facility level or where that where that's coming from. Furthermore, on the executive level, we did take advantage of Let me stop here where, um also provided some lagged a so leg. This is important to organizations in this area because they wanna know how long does it take before they re submit a claim that was originally denied before they get paid industry benchmark is about 10 days of 10 days is a fairly good, good, um, basis to look at. And then, obviously anything over that they're going to take a little bit more scrutiny on and want to drill in and understand why that is. And again, they have that capabilities in order to drill down and really get it. Those answers that they're looking for, we also for this particular pin board. And these users thought it would be helpful to utilize the time Siri's forecasting that's made available. So again, thes executives need thio need to keep track and forecast where they're trends were going or what those numbers may look like in the future. And we thought by providing the prediction pins and we have a few prediction pins, um would give them that capability to take a look at that and be able to drill down and use that within, um, certain reporting and such for their organization. Another person, a level that I will go to is, um, Mawr on the analyst side, where those folks are utilizing, um, are auditing workflow and being in our platform, creating audits, completing audits, we have it segregated by two different areas. And this is by claim types so professional or institutional, I'm going to jump in here. And then I am going to go to present mode. So in this particular, um, in this particular view or insight, we're providing that analysts view with something that's really key and critical in their organization is denials related Thio HCC s andi. That's a condition category that kind of forecast, the risk of treatment. And, you know, if that particular patient is probably going to be seen again and have more conditions and higher costs, higher health care spending. So in this example, we're looking at the top 15 attending providers that had those HCC denials. And this is, um, critical because at this point, it really peaks in analyst curiosity. Especially, You know, they'll see providers here and then see the top 15 on the top is generating Ah, hide denial rate. Hi, denial. The dollars for those HCC's and that's a that's a real risk to the organization, because if that behavior continues, um, then those those dollars won't go down. That number won't go down so that analysts then can go in and they can drill down um, I'm going to drill down on diagnosis and then look at the diagnosis name because I have a suspicion, but I'm not exactly sure. And what's great is that they can easily do this. Change the view. Um, you know, it's showing a lot of diagnoses, but what's important is the first one is sepsis and substance is a big one. Substances something that those organizations see a lot of. And if they hover, they can see that 49.57 million, um, is attributed to that. So they may want to look further into that. They'd probably be interested in closing that loop and creating an audit. And so what allowed us to be able to do that for them is we're launching directly into our auditing workflow. So they noticed something in the carried insight. It sparked some investigation, and then they don't have to leave that insight to be able to jump into the auditing workflow and complete that. Answer that question. Okay, so now they're at the point where we've pulled back all the cases that attributed to that dollar amount that we saw on the Insight and the users launching into their auditing workflow. They have the ability Thio select be selective about what cases they wanna pull into the audit or if they were looking, um, as we saw with sepsis, they could pull in their 1600 rose, but they could take a sampling size, which is primarily what they would do. They went audit all 1600 cases, and then from this point in they're into, they're auditing workflow and they'd continue down the path. Looking at those cases they just pulled in and being able Thio finalized the audit and determine, you know, if further, um, education with that provider is needed. So that concludes the demo of how we integrated thought spot into our platform. >>Thank you, LeAnn. And thank you. Re test for taking the time to walk us through. Not only your company, but how Thought spot is helping you Power analytics for your clients. At this point, we want to open this up for a little Q and A, but we want to leave you with the fact that thought spot everywhere. Specifically, it cannot only do this for Hayes, but could do it for any company anywhere they need. Analytical applications providing these applications for their customers, their partners, providers or anybody within their network for more about this, you can see that the website attached below >>Thanks, Rick and thanks for tests and Leon that I find it just fascinating hearing what our customers are doing with our technology. And I certainly have learned 100% more about sepsis than I ever knew before this session. So thank you so much for sharing that it's really is great to see how you're taking our software and putting it into your application. So that's it for this session. But do stay tuned for the next session, which is all about getting the most out of your data and amplifying your insights. With the help of A, I will be joined by two thought spot leaders who will share their first hand experiences. So take a quick breather and come right back

>>Yeah, >>yeah. Hello and welcome to this track to creating engaging analytics experiences for all. I'm Hannah Sinden Thought spots Omiya director of marketing on. I'm delighted to have you here today. A boy Have we got to show for you now? I might be a little bit biased as the host of this track, but in my humble opinion, you've come to a great place to start because this track is all about everything. Thought spot. We'll be talking about embedded search in a I thought spot one spot I. Q. We've got great speakers from both thoughts about andare customers as well as some cool product demos. But it's not all product talk. We'll be looking at how to leverage the tech to give your users a great experience. So first up is our thoughts about one deep dive. This session will be showing you how we've built on our already superb search experience to make it even easier for users across your company to get insight. We've got some great speakers who are going to be telling you about the cool stuff they've been working on to make it really fantastic and easy for non technical people to get the answers they need. So I'm really delighted to introduce Bob Baxley s VP of design and experience That thought spot on Vishal Kyocera Thought spots director of product management. So without further ado, I'll hand it over to Bob. Thanks, >>Hannah. It's great to be here with everybody today and really excited to be able to present to you thought spot one. We've been working on this for months and months and are super excited to share it before we get to the demo with Shawl, though, I just want to set things up a little bit to help people understand how we think about design here. A thought spot. The first thing is that we really try to think in terms of thought. Spot is a consumer grade product, terms what we wanted. Consumer grade you x for an analytics. And that means that for reference points rather than looking at other enterprise software companies, we tend to look at well known consumer brands like Google, YouTube and WhatsApp. We firmly believe that people are people, and it doesn't matter if they're using software for their own usage or thought are they're using software at work We wanted to have a great experience. The second piece that we were considering with thoughts about one is really what we call the desegregation of bundles. So instead of having all of your insights wraps strictly into dashboards, we want to allow users to get directly to individual answers. This is similar to what we saw in music. Were instead of you having to buy the entire album, of course, you could just buy individual songs. You see this in iTunes, Spotify and others course. Another key idea was really getting rid of gate keepers and curators and kind of changing people from owning the information, helping enable users to gather together the most important and interesting insights So you can follow curator rather than feeling like you're limited in the types of information you can get. And finally, we wanted to make search the primary way, for people are thinking about thought spot. As you'll see, we've extended search from beyond simply searching for your data toe, also searching to be able to find pin boards and answers that have been created by other people. So with that, I'll turn it over to my good friend Rachel Thio introduce more of thought, spot one and to show you a demo of the product. >>Thank you, Bob. It's a pleasure to be here to Hello, everyone. My name is Michelle and Andy, product management for Search. And I'm really, really excited to be here talking about thoughts about one our Consumer analytics experience in the Cloud. Now, for my part of the talk, we're gonna first to a high level overview of thoughts about one. Then we're going to dive into a demo, and then we're gonna close with just a few thoughts about what's coming next. So, without any today, let's get started now at thought spot. Our mission is to empower every user regardless of their expertise, to easily engage with data on make better data driven decisions. We want every user, the nurse, the neighborhood barista, the teacher, the sales person, everyone to be able to do their jobs better by using data now with thoughts about one. We've made it even more intuitive for all these business users to easily connect with the insights that are most relevant for them, and we've made it even easier for analysts to do their jobs more effectively and more efficiently. So what does thoughts about one have? There's a lot off cool new features, but they all fall into three main categories. The first main category is enhanced search capabilities. The second is a brand new homepage that's built entirely for you, and the third is powerful tools for the analysts that make them completely self service and boost their productivity. So let's see how these work Thought Spot is the pioneer for search driven analytics. We invented search so that business users can ask questions of data and create new insights. But over the years we realized that there was one key piece off functionality that was missing from our search, and that was the ability to discover insights and content that had already been created. So to clarify, our search did allow users to create new content, but we until now did not have the ability to search existing content. Now, why does that matter? Let's take an example. I am a product manager and I am always in thought spot, asking questions to better understand how are users are using the product so we can improve it now. Like me, A lot of my colleagues are doing the same thing. Ah, lot of questions that I asked have already been answered either completely are almost completely by many of my colleagues, but until now there's been no easy way for me to benefit from their work. And so I end up recreating insights that already exists, leading to redundant work that is not good for the productivity off the organization. In addition, even though our search technology is really intuitive, it does require a little bit of familiarity with the underlying data. You do need to know what metric you care about and what grouping you care about so that you can articulate your questions and create new insights. Now, if I consider in New employees product manager who joins Hotspot today and wants to ask questions, then the first time they use thought spot, they may not have that data familiarity. So we went back to the drawing board and asked ourselves, Well, how can we augment our search so that we get rid off or reduced the redundant work that I described? And in addition, empower users, even new users with very little expertise, maybe with no data familiarity, to succeed in getting answers to their questions the first time they used Hot Spot, and we're really proud and excited to announce search answers. Search answers allows users to search across existing content to get answers to their questions, and its a great compliment to search data, which allows them to search the underlying data directly to create new content. Now, with search answers were shipping in number of cool features like Answer Explainer, Personalized search Results, Answer Explorer, etcetera that make it really intuitive and powerful. And we'll see how all of these work in action in the demo. Our brand new homepage makes it easier than ever for all these business users to connect with the insights that are most relevant to them. These insights could be insights that these users already know about and want to track regularly. For example, as you can see, the monitor section at the top center of the screen thes air, the KP eyes that I may care most about, and I may want to look at them every day, and I can see them every day right here on my home page. By the way, there's a monitoring these metrics in the bankrupt these insights that I want to connect with could also be insights that I want to know more about the search experience that I just spoke about ISS seamlessly integrated into the home page. So right here from the home page, I can fire my searchers and ask whatever questions I want. Finally, and most interestingly, the homepage also allows me to connect with insights that I should know about, even if I didn't explicitly ask for them. So what's an example? If you look at the panel on the right, I can discover insights that are trending in my organization. If I look at the panel on the left, I can discover insights based on my social graph based on the people that I'm following. Now you might wonder, How do we create this personalized home page? Well, our brand new, personalized on boarding experience makes it a piece of cake as a new business user. The very first time I log into thought spot, I pay three people I want to follow and three metrics that I want to follow, and I picked these from a pool of suggestions that Ai has generated. And just like that, the new home page gets created. And let's not forget about analysts. We have a personalized on boarding experience specifically for analysts that's optimized for their needs. Now, speaking of analysts, I do want to talk about the tools that I spoke off earlier that made the analysts completely self service and greatly boost their productivity's. We want analysts to go from zero to search in less than 30 minutes, and with our with our new augmented data modeling features and thoughts about one, they can do just that. They get a guided experience where they can connect, model and visualize their data. With just a few clicks, our AI engine takes care off a number of tasks, including figuring out joints and, you know, cleaning up column names. In fact, our AI engine also helps them create a number of answers to get started quickly so that these analysts can spend their time and energy on what matters most answering the most complicated and challenging and impactful questions for the business. So I spoke about a number of different capabilities off thoughts about one, but let's not forget that they are all packaged in a delightful user experience designed by Bob and his team, and it powers really, really intuitive and powerful user flows, from personalized on boarding to searching to discover insights that already exist on that are ranked based on personalized algorithms to making refinements to these insights with a assistance to searching, to create brand new insights from scratch. And finally sharing all the insights that you find interesting with your colleagues so that it drives conversations, decisions and, most importantly, actions so that your business can improve. With that said, let's drive right into the demo for this demo. We're going to use sales data set for a company that runs a chain off retail stores selling apparel. Our user is a business user. Her name is Charlotte. She's a merchandiser, She's new to this company, and she is going to be leading the genes broader category. She's really excited about job. She wants to use data to make better decisions, so she comes to thought spot, and this is what she sees. There are three main sections on the home page that she comes to. The central section allows you to browse through items that she has access to and filter them in various ways. Based for example, on author or on tags or based on what she has favorited. The second section is this panel on the right hand side, which allows her to discover insights that are trending within her company. This is based on what other people within her company are viewing and also personalized to her. Finally, there's this search box that seamlessly integrated into the home page. Now Charlotte is really curious to learn how the business is doing. She wants to learn more about sales for the business, so she goes to the search box and searches for sales, and you can see that she's taken to a page with search results. Charlotte start scanning the search results, and she sees the first result is very relevant. It shows her what the quarterly results were for the last year, but the result that really catches her attention is regional sales. She'd love to better understand how sales are broken down by regions. Now she's interested in the search result, but she doesn't yet want to commit to clicking on it and going to that result. She wants to learn more about this result before she does that, and she could do that very easily simply by clicking anywhere on the search result card. Doing that reveals our answer. Explain our technology and you can see this information panel on the right side. It shows more details about the search results that she selected, and it also gives her an easy to understand explanation off the data that it contains. You can see that it tells her that the metrics sales it's grouped by region and splitter on last year. She can also click on this preview button to see a preview off the chart that she would see if she went to that result. It shows her that region is going to be on the X axis and sales on the Y axis. All of this seems interesting to her, and she wants to learn more. So she clicks on this result, and she's brought to this chart now. This contains the most up to date data, and she can interact with this data. Now, as she's looking at this data, she learns that Midwest is the region with the highest sales, and it has a little over $23 million in sales, and South is the region with the lowest sales, and it has about $4.24 million in sales. Now, as Charlotte is looking at this chart, she's reminded off a conversation she had with Suresh, another new hire at the company who she met at orientation just that morning. Suresh is responsible for leading a few different product categories for the Western region off the business, and she thinks that he would find this chart really useful Now she can share this chart with Suresh really easily from right here by clicking the share button. As Charlotte continues to look at this chart and understand the data, she thinks, uh, that would be great for her to understand. How do these sales numbers across regions look for just the genes product category, since that's the product category that she is going to be leading? And she can easily narrow this data to just the genes category by using her answer Explorer technology. This panel on the right hand side allows her to make the necessary refinements. Now she can do that simply by typing in the search box, or she can pick from one off the AI generated suggestions that are personalized for her now. In this case, the AI has already suggested genes as a prototype for her. So with just a single click, she can narrow the data to show sales data for just jeans broken down by region. And she can see that Midwest is still the region with the highest sales for jeans, with $1.35 million in sales. Now let's spend a minute thinking about what we just saw. This is the first time that Charlotte is using Thought spot. She does not know anything about the data sources. She doesn't know anything about measures or attributes. She doesn't know the names of the columns. And yet she could get to insights that are relevant for her really easily using a search interface that's very much like Google. And as she started interacting with search results, she started building a slightly better understanding off the underlying data. When she found an insight that she thought would be useful to a colleague offers, it was really seamless for her to share it with that colleague from where she Waas. Also, even though she's searching over content that has already been created by her colleagues in search answers. She was in no way restricted to exactly that data as we just saw. She could refine the data in an insight that she found by narrowing it. And there's other things you can do so she could interact with the data for the inside that she finds using search answers. Let's take a slightly more complex question that Charlotte may have. Let's assume she wanted to learn about sales broken down by, um, by category so that she can compare her vertical, which is jeans toe other verticals within the company. Again, she can see that the very first result that she gets is very relevant. It shows her search Sorry, sales by category for last year. But what really catches her attention about this result is the name of the author. She's thrilled to note that John, who is the author of this result, was also an instructor for one off for orientation sessions and clearly someone who has a lot of insight into the sales data at this company. Now she would love to see mawr results by John, and to do that, all she has to do is to click on his name now all of the search results are only those that have been authored by John. In fact, this whole panel at the top of the results allow her to filter her search results or sort them in different ways. By clicking on these authors filter, she can discover other authors who are reputed for the topic that she's searching for. She can also filter by tags, and she can sort these results in different ways. This whole experience off doing a search and then filtering search results easily is similar to how we use e commerce search engines in the consumer world. For example, Amazon, where you may search for a product and then filter by price range or filter by brand. For example, Let's also spend a minute talking about how do we determine relevance for these results and how they're ranked. Um, when considering relevance for these results, we consider three main categories of things. We want to first make sure that the result is in fact relevant to the question that the user is asking, and for that we look at various fields within the result. We look at the title, the author, the description, but also the technical query underpinning that result. We also want to make sure that the results are trustworthy, because we want users to be able to make business decisions based on the results that they find. And for that we look at a number of signals as well. For example, how popular that result is is one of those signals. And finally, we want to make sure the results are relevant to the users themselves. So we look at signals to personalize the result for that user. So those are all the different categories of signals that we used to determine overall ranking for a search result. You may be wondering what happens if if Charlotte asks a question for which nobody has created any answer, so no answers exist. Let's say she wants to know what the total sales of genes for last year and no one's created that well. It's really easy for her to switch from searching for answers, which is searching for content that has already been created to searching the data directly so she can create a new insight from scratch. Let's see how that works. She could just click here, and now she's in the search data in her face and for the question that I just talked about. She can just type genes sales last year. And just like that, she could get an answer to her question. The total sales for jeans last year were almost $4.6 million. As you can see, the two modes off search searching for answers and searching, the data are complementary, and it's really easy to switch from one to the other. Now we understand that some business users may not be motivated to create their own insights from scratch. Or sometimes some of these business users may have questions that are too complicated, and so they may struggle to create their own inside from scratch. Now what happens usually in these circumstances is that these users will open a ticket, which would go to the analyst team. The analyst team is usually overrun with these tickets and have trouble prioritizing them. And so we started thinking, How can we make that entire feedback loop really efficient so that analysts can have a massive impact with as little work as possible? Let me show you what we came up with. Search answers comes with this system generated dashboard that analysts can see to see analytics on the queries that business users are asking in search answers so it contains high level K P. I is like, You know how many searches there are and how many users there are. It also contains one of the most popular queries that users are asking. But most importantly, it contains information about what are popular queries where users are failing. So the number on the top right tells you that about 10% off queries in this case ended with no results. So the user clearly failed because there were no results on the table. Right below it shows you here are the top search queries for original results exist. So, for example, the highlighted row there says jean sales with the number three, which tells the analysts that last week there were three searches for the query jean sales and the resulted in no results on search answers. Now, when an analyst sees a report like this, they can use it to prioritize what kind of content they could be creating or optimizing. Now, in addition to giving them inside into queries which led to no results or zero results. This dashboard also contains reports on creatives that lead to poor results because the user did get some results but didn't click on anything, meaning that they didn't get the answer that they were looking for. Taking all these insights, analysts can better prioritize and either create or optimize their content to have maximum impact for their business users with the least amount of for. So that was the demo. As you can see with search answers, we've created a very consumer search interface that any business user can use to get the answers to their questions by leveraging data or answers that have already been created in the system by other users in their organization. In addition, we're creating tools that allow analysts toe create or optimized content that can have the highest impact for these business users. All right, so that was the demo or thoughts about one and hope you guys liked it. We're really excited about it. Now Let me just spend a minute talking about what's coming next. As I've mentioned before, we want to connect every business user with the insights that are most relevant for them, and for that we will continue to invest in Advanced AI and personalization, and some of the ways you will see it is improved relevance in ranking in recommendations in how we understand your questions across the product within search within the home page everywhere. The second team that will continue to invest in is powerful analyst tools. We talked about tools and, I assure you, tools that make the analysts more self service. We are committed to improving the analyst experience so that they can make the most off their time. An example of a tool that we're really excited about is one that allows them to bridge the vocabulary difference that this even business user asks questions. A user asked a question like revenue, but the column name for the metric in the data set its sales. Now analysts can get insights into what are the words that users air using in their questions that aren't matching anything in the data set and easily create synonyms so that that vocabulary difference gets breached. But that's just one example of how we're thinking about empowering the analysts so that with minimal work, they can amplify their impact and help their business users succeed. So there's a lot coming, and we're really excited about how we're planning to evolve thoughts about one. With all that said, Um, there's just, well, one more thing that my friend Bob wants to talk to you guys about. So back to you, Bob. >>Thanks, Michelle. It's such a great demo and so fun to see all the new work that's going on with thought. Spot one. All the happenings for the new features coming out that will be under the hood. But of course, on the design side, we're going to continue to evolve the front end as well, and this is what we're hoping to move towards. So here you'll see a new log in screen and then the new homepage. So compared to the material that you saw just a few minutes ago, you'll notice this look is much lighter. A little bit nicer use of color up in the top bar with search the features over here to allow you to switch between searching against answers at versus creating new answers, the settings and user profile controls down here and then on the search results page itself also lighter look and feel again. Mork color up in the search bar up the top. A little bit nicer treatments here. We'll continue to evolve the look and feel the product in coming months and quarters and look forward to continue to constantly improving thoughts about one Hannah back to you. >>Thanks, Bob, and thank you both for showing us the next generation of thought spot. I'd love to go a bit deeper on some of the points you touched on there. I've got a couple of questions here. Bob, how do you think about designing for consumer experience versus designing for enterprise solutions? >>Yes, I mentioned Hannah. We don't >>really try to distinguish so much between enterprise users and consumer users. It's really kind of two different context of use. But we still always think that users want some product and feature and experience that's easy to use and makes sense to them. So instead of trying to think about those is two completely different design processes I think about it may be the way Frank Lloyd Wright would approached architecture. >>Er I >>mean, in his career, he fluidly moved between residential architecture like falling water and the Robie House. But he also designed marquis buildings like the Johnson wax building. In each case, he simply looked at the requirements, thought about what was necessary for those users and designed accordingly. And that's really what we do. A thought spot. We spend time talking to customers. We spend time talking to users, and we spent a lot of time thinking through the problem and trying to solve it holistically. And it's simply a possible >>thanks, Bob. That's a beautiful analogy on one last question for you. Bischel. How frequently will you be adding features to this new experience, >>But I'm glad you asked that, Hannah, because this is something that we are really really excited about with thoughts about one being in the cloud. We want to go really, really fast. So we expect to eventually get to releasing new innovations every day. We expect that in the near future, we'll get to, you know, every month and every week, and we hope to get to everyday eventually fingers crossed on housing. That can happen. Great. Thanks, >>Michelle. And thank you, Bob. I'm so glad you could all join us this morning to hear more about thoughts about one. Stay close and get ready for the next session. which will be beginning in a few minutes. In it will be introduced to thoughts for >>everywhere are >>embedded analytics product on. We'll be hearing directly from our customers at Hayes about how they're using embedded analytics to help healthcare providers across billing compliance on revenue integrity functions. To make more informed decisions on make effective actions to avoid risk and maximize revenue. See you there.

- [Announcer] Live, from New York, it's theCUBE. Covering theCUBE New York City 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media, and its ecosystem partners. - Hello everyone, welcome back to CUBE NYC. This is a CUBE special presentation of something that we've done now for the past couple of years. IBM has sponsored an influencer panel on some of the hottest topics in the industry, and of course, there's no hotter topic right now than AI. So, we've got nine of the top influencers in the AI space, and we're in Hell's Kitchen, and it's going to get hot in here. (laughing) And these guys, we're going to cover the gamut. So, first of all, folks, thanks so much for joining us today, really, as John said earlier, we love the collaboration with you all, and we'll definitely see you on social after the fact. I'm Dave Vellante, with my cohost for this session, Peter Burris, and again, thank you to IBM for sponsoring this and organizing this. IBM has a big event down here, in conjunction with Strata, called Change the Game, Winning with AI. We run theCUBE NYC, we've been here all week. So, here's the format. I'm going to kick it off, and then we'll see where it goes. So, I'm going to introduce each of the panelists, and then ask you guys to answer a question, I'm sorry, first, tell us a little bit about yourself, briefly, and then answer one of the following questions. Two big themes that have come up this week. One has been, because this is our ninth year covering what used to be Hadoop World, which kind of morphed into big data. Question is, AI, big data, same wine, new bottle? Or is it really substantive, and driving business value? So, that's one question to ponder. The other one is, you've heard the term, the phrase, data is the new oil. Is data really the new oil? Wonder what you think about that? Okay, so, Chris Penn, let's start with you. Chris is cofounder of Trust Insight, long time CUBE alum, and friend. Thanks for coming on. Tell us a little bit about yourself, and then pick one of those questions. - Sure, we're a data science consulting firm. We're an IBM business partner. When it comes to "data is the new oil," I love that expression because it's completely accurate. Crude oil is useless, you have to extract it out of the ground, refine it, and then bring it to distribution. Data is the same way, where you have to have developers and data architects get the data out. You need data scientists and tools, like Watson Studio, to refine it, and then you need to put it into production, and that's where marketing technologists, technologists, business analytics folks, and tools like Watson Machine Learning help bring the data and make it useful. - Okay, great, thank you. Tony Flath is a tech and media consultant, focus on cloud and cyber security, welcome. - Thank you. - Tell us a little bit about yourself and your thoughts on one of those questions. - Sure thing, well, thanks so much for having us on this show, really appreciate it. My background is in cloud, cyber security, and certainly in emerging tech with artificial intelligence. Certainly touched it from a cyber security play, how you can use machine learning, machine control, for better controlling security across the gamut. But I'll touch on your question about wine, is it a new bottle, new wine? Where does this come from, from artificial intelligence? And I really see it as a whole new wine that is coming along. When you look at emerging technology, and you look at all the deep learning that's happening, it's going just beyond being able to machine learn and know what's happening, it's making some meaning to that data. And things are being done with that data, from robotics, from automation, from all kinds of different things, where we're at a point in society where data, our technology is getting beyond us. Prior to this, it's always been command and control. You control data from a keyboard. Well, this is passing us. So, my passion and perspective on this is, the humanization of it, of IT. How do you ensure that people are in that process, right? - Excellent, and we're going to come back and talk about that. - Thanks so much. - Carla Gentry, @DataNerd? Great to see you live, as opposed to just in the ether on Twitter. Data scientist, and owner of Analytical Solution. Welcome, your thoughts? - Thank you for having us. Mine is, is data the new oil? And I'd like to rephrase that is, data equals human lives. So, with all the other artificial intelligence and everything that's going on, and all the algorithms and models that's being created, we have to think about things being biased, being fair, and understand that this data has impacts on people's lives. - Great. Steve Ardire, my paisan. - Paisan. - AI startup adviser, welcome, thanks for coming to theCUBE. - Thanks Dave. So, uh, my first career was geology, and I view AI as the new oil, but data is the new oil, but AI is the refinery. I've used that many times before. In fact, really, I've moved from just AI to augmented intelligence. So, augmented intelligence is really the way forward. This was a presentation I gave at IBM Think last spring, has almost 100,000 impressions right now, and the fundamental reason why is machines can attend to vastly more information than humans, but you still need humans in the loop, and we can talk about what they're bringing in terms of common sense reasoning, because big data does the who, what, when, and where, but not the why, and why is really the Holy Grail for causal analysis and reasoning. - Excellent, Bob Hayes, Business Over Broadway, welcome, great to see you again. - Thanks for having me. So, my background is in psychology, industrial psychology, and I'm interested in things like customer experience, data science, machine learning, so forth. And I'll answer the question around big data versus AI. And I think there's other terms we could talk about, big data, data science, machine learning, AI. And to me, it's kind of all the same. It's always been about analytics, and getting value from your data, big, small, what have you. And there's subtle differences among those terms. Machine learning is just about making a prediction, and knowing if things are classified correctly. Data science is more about understanding why things work, and understanding maybe the ethics behind it, what variables are predicting that outcome. But still, it's all the same thing, it's all about using data in a way that we can get value from that, as a society, in residences. - Excellent, thank you. Theo Lau, founder of Unconventional Ventures. What's your story? - Yeah, so, my background is driving technology innovation. So, together with my partner, what our work does is we work with organizations to try to help them leverage technology to drive systematic financial wellness. We connect founders, startup founders, with funders, we help them get money in the ecosystem. We also work with them to look at, how do we leverage emerging technology to do something good for the society. So, very much on point to what Bob was saying about. So when I look at AI, it is not new, right, it's been around for quite a while. But what's different is the amount of technological power that we have allow us to do so much more than what we were able to do before. And so, what my mantra is, great ideas can come from anywhere in the society, but it's our job to be able to leverage technology to shine a spotlight on people who can use this to do something different, to help seniors in our country to do better in their financial planning. - Okay, so, in your mind, it's not just a same wine, new bottle, it's more substantive than that. - [Theo] It's more substantive, it's a much better bottle. - Karen Lopez, senior project manager for Architect InfoAdvisors, welcome. - Thank you. So, I'm DataChick on twitter, and so that kind of tells my focus is that I'm here, I also call myself a data evangelist, and that means I'm there at organizations helping stand up for the data, because to me, that's the proxy for standing up for the people, and the places and the events that that data describes. That means I have a focus on security, data privacy and protection as well. And I'm going to kind of combine your two questions about whether data is the new wine bottle, I think is the combination. Oh, see, now I'm talking about alcohol. (laughing) But anyway, you know, all analogies are imperfect, so whether we say it's the new wine, or, you know, same wine, or whether it's oil, is that the analogy's good for both of them, but unlike oil, the amount of data's just growing like crazy, and the oil, we know at some point, I kind of doubt that we're going to hit peak data where we have not enough data, like we're going to do with oil. But that says to me that, how did we get here with big data, with machine learning and AI? And from my point of view, as someone who's been focused on data for 35 years, we have hit this perfect storm of open source technologies, cloud architectures and cloud services, data innovation, that if we didn't have those, we wouldn't be talking about large machine learning and deep learning-type things. So, because we have all these things coming together at the same time, we're now at explosions of data, which means we also have to protect them, and protect the people from doing harm with data, we need to do data for good things, and all of that. - Great, definite differences, we're not running out of data, data's like the terrible tribbles. (laughing) - Yes, but it's very cuddly, data is. - Yeah, cuddly data. Mark Lynd, founder of Relevant Track? - That's right. - I like the name. What's your story? - Well, thank you, and it actually plays into what my interest is. It's mainly around AI in enterprise operations and cyber security. You know, these teams that are in enterprise operations both, it can be sales, marketing, all the way through the organization, as well as cyber security, they're often under-sourced. And they need, what Steve pointed out, they need augmented intelligence, they need to take AI, the big data, all the information they have, and make use of that in a way where they're able to, even though they're under-sourced, make some use and some value for the organization, you know, make better use of the resources they have to grow and support the strategic goals of the organization. And oftentimes, when you get to budgeting, it doesn't really align, you know, you're short people, you're short time, but the data continues to grow, as Karen pointed out. So, when you take those together, using AI to augment, provided augmented intelligence, to help them get through that data, make real tangible decisions based on information versus just raw data, especially around cyber security, which is a big hit right now, is really a great place to be, and there's a lot of stuff going on, and a lot of exciting stuff in that area. - Great, thank you. Kevin L. Jackson, author and founder of GovCloud. GovCloud, that's big. - Yeah, GovCloud Network. Thank you very much for having me on the show. Up and working on cloud computing, initially in the federal government, with the intelligence community, as they adopted cloud computing for a lot of the nation's major missions. And what has happened is now I'm working a lot with commercial organizations and with the security of that data. And I'm going to sort of, on your questions, piggyback on Karen. There was a time when you would get a couple of bottles of wine, and they would come in, and you would savor that wine, and sip it, and it would take a few days to get through it, and you would enjoy it. The problem now is that you don't get a couple of bottles of wine into your house, you get two or three tankers of data. So, it's not that it's a new wine, you're just getting a lot of it. And the infrastructures that you need, before you could have a couple of computers, and a couple of people, now you need cloud, you need automated infrastructures, you need huge capabilities, and artificial intelligence and AI, it's what we can use as the tool on top of these huge infrastructures to drink that, you know. - Fire hose of wine. - Fire hose of wine. (laughs) - Everybody's having a good time. - Everybody's having a great time. (laughs) - Yeah, things are booming right now. Excellent, well, thank you all for those intros. Peter, I want to ask you a question. So, I heard there's some similarities and some definite differences with regard to data being the new oil. You have a perspective on this, and I wonder if you could inject it into the conversation. - Sure, so, the perspective that we take in a lot of conversations, a lot of folks here in theCUBE, what we've learned, and I'll kind of answer both questions a little bit. First off, on the question of data as the new oil, we definitely think that data is the new asset that business is going to be built on, in fact, our perspective is that there really is a difference between business and digital business, and that difference is data as an asset. And if you want to understand data transformation, you understand the degree to which businesses reinstitutionalizing work, reorganizing its people, reestablishing its mission around what you can do with data as an asset. The difference between data and oil is that oil still follows the economics of scarcity. Data is one of those things, you can copy it, you can share it, you can easily corrupt it, you can mess it up, you can do all kinds of awful things with it if you're not careful. And it's that core fundamental proposition that as an asset, when we think about cyber security, we think, in many respects, that is the approach to how we can go about privatizing data so that we can predict who's actually going to be able to appropriate returns on it. So, it's a good analogy, but as you said, it's not entirely perfect, but it's not perfect in a really fundamental way. It's not following the laws of scarcity, and that has an enormous effect. - In other words, I could put oil in my car, or I could put oil in my house, but I can't put the same oil in both. - Can't put it in both places. And now, the issue of the wine, I think it's, we think that it is, in fact, it is a new wine, and very simple abstraction, or generalization we come up with is the issue of agency. That analytics has historically not taken on agency, it hasn't acted on behalf of the brand. AI is going to act on behalf of the brand. Now, you're going to need both of them, you can't separate them. - A lot of implications there in terms of bias. - Absolutely. - In terms of privacy. You have a thought, here, Chris? - Well, the scarcity is our compute power, and our ability for us to process it. I mean, it's the same as oil, there's a ton of oil under the ground, right, we can't get to it as efficiently, or without severe environmental consequences to use it. Yeah, when you use it, it's transformed, but our scarcity is compute power, and our ability to use it intelligently. - Or even when you find it. I have data, I can apply it to six different applications, I have oil, I can apply it to one, and that's going to matter in how we think about work. - But one thing I'd like to add, sort of, you're talking about data as an asset. The issue we're having right now is we're trying to learn how to manage that asset. Artificial intelligence is a way of managing that asset, and that's important if you're going to use and leverage big data. - Yeah, but see, everybody's talking about the quantity, the quantity, it's not always the quantity. You know, we can have just oodles and oodles of data, but if it's not clean data, if it's not alphanumeric data, which is what's needed for machine learning. So, having lots of data is great, but you have to think about the signal versus the noise. So, sometimes you get so much data, you're looking at over-fitting, sometimes you get so much data, you're looking at biases within the data. So, it's not the amount of data, it's the, now that we have all of this data, making sure that we look at relevant data, to make sure we look at clean data. - One more thought, and we have a lot to cover, I want to get inside your big brain. - I was just thinking about it from a cyber security perspective, one of my customers, they were looking at the data that just comes from the perimeter, your firewalls, routers, all of that, and then not even looking internally, just the perimeter alone, and the amount of data being pulled off of those. And then trying to correlate that data so it makes some type of business sense, or they can determine if there's incidents that may happen, and take a predictive action, or threats that might be there because they haven't taken a certain action prior, it's overwhelming to them. So, having AI now, to be able to go through the logs to look at, and there's so many different types of data that come to those logs, but being able to pull that information, as well as looking at end points, and all that, and people's houses, which are an extension of the network oftentimes, it's an amazing amount of data, and they're only looking at a small portion today because they know, there's not enough resources, there's not enough trained people to do all that work. So, AI is doing a wonderful way of doing that. And some of the tools now are starting to mature and be sophisticated enough where they provide that augmented intelligence that Steve talked about earlier. - So, it's complicated. There's infrastructure, there's security, there's a lot of software, there's skills, and on and on. At IBM Think this year, Ginni Rometty talked about, there were a couple of themes, one was augmented intelligence, that was something that was clear. She also talked a lot about privacy, and you own your data, etc. One of the things that struck me was her discussion about incumbent disruptors. So, if you look at the top five companies, roughly, Facebook with fake news has dropped down a little bit, but top five companies in terms of market cap in the US. They're data companies, all right. Apple just hit a trillion, Amazon, Google, etc. How do those incumbents close the gap? Is that concept of incumbent disruptors actually something that is being put into practice? I mean, you guys work with a lot of practitioners. How are they going to close that gap with the data haves, meaning data at their core of their business, versus the data have-nots, it's not that they don't have a lot of data, but it's in silos, it's hard to get to? - Yeah, I got one more thing, so, you know, these companies, and whoever's going to be big next is, you have a digital persona, whether you want it or not. So, if you live in a farm out in the middle of Oklahoma, you still have a digital persona, people are collecting data on you, they're putting profiles of you, and the big companies know about you, and people that first interact with you, they're going to know that you have this digital persona. Personal AI, when AI from these companies could be used simply and easily, from a personal deal, to fill in those gaps, and to have a digital persona that supports your family, your growth, both personal and professional growth, and those type of things, there's a lot of applications for AI on a personal, enterprise, even small business, that have not been done yet, but the data is being collected now. So, you talk about the oil, the oil is being built right now, lots, and lots, and lots of it. It's the applications to use that, and turn that into something personally, professionally, educationally, powerful, that's what's missing. But it's coming. - Thank you, so, I'll add to that, and in answer to your question you raised. So, one example we always used in banking is, if you look at the big banks, right, and then you look at from a consumer perspective, and there's a lot of talk about Amazon being a bank. But the thing is, Amazon doesn't need to be a bank, they provide banking services, from a consumer perspective they don't really care if you're a bank or you're not a bank, but what's different between Amazon and some of the banks is that Amazon, like you say, has a lot of data, and they know how to make use of the data to offer something as relevant that consumers want. Whereas banks, they have a lot of data, but they're all silos, right. So, it's not just a matter of whether or not you have the data, it's also, can you actually access it and make something useful out of it so that you can create something that consumers want? Because otherwise, you're just a pipe. - Totally agree, like, when you look at it from a perspective of, there's a lot of terms out there, digital transformation is thrown out so much, right, and go to cloud, and you migrate to cloud, and you're going to take everything over, but really, when you look at it, and you both touched on it, it's the economics. You have to look at the data from an economics perspective, and how do you make some kind of way to take this data meaningful to your customers, that's going to work effectively for them, that they're going to drive? So, when you look at the big, big cloud providers, I think the push in things that's going to happen in the next few years is there's just going to be a bigger migration to public cloud. So then, between those, they have to differentiate themselves. Obvious is artificial intelligence, in a way that makes it easy to aggregate data from across platforms, to aggregate data from multi-cloud, effectively. To use that data in a meaningful way that's going to drive, not only better decisions for your business, and better outcomes, but drives our opportunities for customers, drives opportunities for employees and how they work. We're at a really interesting point in technology where we get to tell technology what to do. It's going beyond us, it's no longer what we're telling it to do, it's going to go beyond us. So, how we effectively manage that is going to be where we see that data flow, and those big five or big four, really take that to the next level. - Now, one of the things that Ginni Rometty said was, I forget the exact step, but it was like, 80% of the data, is not searchable. Kind of implying that it's sitting somewhere behind a firewall, presumably on somebody's premises. So, it was kind of interesting. You're talking about, certainly, a lot of momentum for public cloud, but at the same time, a lot of data is going to stay where it is. - Yeah, we're assuming that a lot of this data is just sitting there, available and ready, and we look at the desperate, or disparate kind of database situation, where you have 29 databases, and two of them have unique quantifiers that tie together, and the rest of them don't. So, there's nothing that you can do with that data. So, artificial intelligence is just that, it's artificial intelligence, so, they know, that's machine learning, that's natural language, that's classification, there's a lot of different parts of that that are moving, but we also have to have IT, good data infrastructure, master data management, compliance, there's so many moving parts to this, that it's not just about the data anymore. - I want to ask Steve to chime in here, go ahead. - Yeah, so, we also have to change the mentality that it's not just enterprise data. There's data on the web, the biggest thing is Internet of Things, the amount of sensor data will make the current data look like chump change. So, data is moving faster, okay. And this is where the sophistication of machine learning needs to kick in, going from just mostly supervised-learning today, to unsupervised learning. And in order to really get into, as I said, big data, and credible AI does the who, what, where, when, and how, but not the why. And this is really the Holy Grail to crack, and it's actually under a new moniker, it's called explainable AI, because it moves beyond just correlation into root cause analysis. Once we have that, then you have the means to be able to tap into augmented intelligence, where humans are working with the machines. - Karen, please. - Yeah, so, one of the things, like what Carla was saying, and what a lot of us had said, I like to think of the advent of ML technologies and AI are going to help me as a data architect to love my data better, right? So, that includes protecting it, but also, when you say that 80% of the data is unsearchable, it's not just an access problem, it's that no one knows what it was, what the sovereignty was, what the metadata was, what the quality was, or why there's huge anomalies in it. So, my favorite story about this is, in the 1980s, about, I forget the exact number, but like, 8 million children disappeared out of the US in April, at April 15th. And that was when the IRS enacted a rule that, in order to have a dependent, a deduction for a dependent on your tax returns, they had to have a valid social security number, and people who had accidentally miscounted their children and over-claimed them, (laughter) over the years them, stopped doing that. Well, some days it does feel like you have eight children running around. (laughter) - Agreed. - When, when that rule came about, literally, and they're not all children, because they're dependents, but literally millions of children disappeared off the face of the earth in April, but if you were doing analytics, or AI and ML, and you don't know that this anomaly happened, I can imagine in a hundred years, someone is saying some catastrophic event happened in April, 1983. (laughter) And what caused that, was it healthcare? Was it a meteor? Was it the clown attacking them? - That's where I was going. - Right. So, those are really important things that I want to use AI and ML to help me, not only document and capture that stuff, but to provide that information to the people, the data scientists and the analysts that are using the data. - Great story, thank you. Bob, you got a thought? You got the mic, go, jump in here. - Well, yeah, I do have a thought, actually. I was talking about, what Karen was talking about. I think it's really important that, not only that we understand AI, and machine learning, and data science, but that the regular folks and companies understand that, at the basic level. Because those are the people who will ask the questions, or who know what questions to ask of the data. And if they don't have the tools, and the knowledge of how to get access to that data, or even how to pose a question, then that data is going to be less valuable, I think, to companies. And the more that everybody knows about data, even people in congress. Remember when Zuckerberg talked about? (laughter) - That was scary. - How do you make money? It's like, we all know this. But, we need to educate the masses on just basic data analytics. - We could have an hour-long panel on that. - Yeah, absolutely. - Peter, you and I were talking about, we had a couple of questions, sort of, how far can we take artificial intelligence? How far should we? You know, so that brings in to the conversation of ethics, and bias, why don't you pick it up? - Yeah, so, one of the crucial things that we all are implying is that, at some point in time, AI is going to become a feature of the operations of our homes, our businesses. And as these technologies get more powerful, and they diffuse, and know about how to use them, diffuses more broadly, and you put more options into the hands of more people, the question slowly starts to turn from can we do it, to should we do it? And, one of the issues that I introduce is that I think the difference between big data and AI, specifically, is this notion of agency. The AI will act on behalf of, perhaps you, or it will act on behalf of your business. And that conversation is not being had, today. It's being had in arguments between Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, which pretty quickly get pretty boring. (laughing) At the end of the day, the real question is, should this machine, whether in concert with others, or not, be acting on behalf of me, on behalf of my business, or, and when I say on behalf of me, I'm also talking about privacy. Because Facebook is acting on behalf of me, it's not just what's going on in my home. So, the question of, can it be done? A lot of things can be done, and an increasing number of things will be able to be done. We got to start having a conversation about should it be done? - So, humans exhibit tribal behavior, they exhibit bias. Their machine's going to pick that up, go ahead, please. - Yeah, one thing that sort of tag onto agency of artificial intelligence. Every industry, every business is now about identifying information and data sources, and their appropriate sinks, and learning how to draw value out of connecting the sources with the sinks. Artificial intelligence enables you to identify those sources and sinks, and when it gets agency, it will be able to make decisions on your behalf about what data is good, what data means, and who it should be. - What actions are good. - Well, what actions are good. - And what data was used to make those actions. - Absolutely. - And was that the right data, and is there bias of data? And all the way down, all the turtles down. - So, all this, the data pedigree will be driven by the agency of artificial intelligence, and this is a big issue. - It's really fundamental to understand and educate people on, there are four fundamental types of bias, so there's, in machine learning, there's intentional bias, "Hey, we're going to make "the algorithm generate a certain outcome "regardless of what the data says." There's the source of the data itself, historical data that's trained on the models built on flawed data, the model will behave in a flawed way. There's target source, which is, for example, we know that if you pull data from a certain social network, that network itself has an inherent bias. No matter how representative you try to make the data, it's still going to have flaws in it. Or, if you pull healthcare data about, for example, African-Americans from the US healthcare system, because of societal biases, that data will always be flawed. And then there's tool bias, there's limitations to what the tools can do, and so we will intentionally exclude some kinds of data, or not use it because we don't know how to, our tools are not able to, and if we don't teach people what those biases are, they won't know to look for them, and I know. - Yeah, it's like, one of the things that we were talking about before, I mean, artificial intelligence is not going to just create itself, it's lines of code, it's input, and it spits out output. So, if it learns from these learning sets, we don't want AI to become another buzzword. We don't want everybody to be an "AR guru" that has no idea what AI is. It takes months, and months, and months for these machines to learn. These learning sets are so very important, because that input is how this machine, think of it as your child, and that's basically the way artificial intelligence is learning, like your child. You're feeding it these learning sets, and then eventually it will make its own decisions. So, we know from some of us having children that you teach them the best that you can, but then later on, when they're doing their own thing, they're really, it's like a little myna bird, they've heard everything that you've said. (laughing) Not only the things that you said to them directly, but the things that you said indirectly. - Well, there are some very good AI researchers that might disagree with that metaphor, exactly. (laughing) But, having said that, what I think is very interesting about this conversation is that this notion of bias, one of the things that fascinates me about where AI goes, are we going to find a situation where tribalism more deeply infects business? Because we know that human beings do not seek out the best information, they seek out information that reinforces their beliefs. And that happens in business today. My line of business versus your line of business, engineering versus sales, that happens today, but it happens at a planning level, and when we start talking about AI, we have to put the appropriate dampers, understand the biases, so that we don't end up with deep tribalism inside of business. Because AI could have the deleterious effect that it actually starts ripping apart organizations. - Well, input is data, and then the output is, could be a lot of things. - Could be a lot of things. - And that's where I said data equals human lives. So that we look at the case in New York where the penal system was using this artificial intelligence to make choices on people that were released from prison, and they saw that that was a miserable failure, because that people that release actually re-offended, some committed murder and other things. So, I mean, it's, it's more than what anybody really thinks. It's not just, oh, well, we'll just train the machines, and a couple of weeks later they're good, we never have to touch them again. These things have to be continuously tweaked. So, just because you built an algorithm or a model doesn't mean you're done. You got to go back later, and continue to tweak these models. - Mark, you got the mic. - Yeah, no, I think one thing we've talked a lot about the data that's collected, but what about the data that's not collected? Incomplete profiles, incomplete datasets, that's a form of bias, and sometimes that's the worst. Because they'll fill that in, right, and then you can get some bias, but there's also a real issue for that around cyber security. Logs are not always complete, things are not always done, and when things are doing that, people make assumptions based on what they've collected, not what they didn't collect. So, when they're looking at this, and they're using the AI on it, that's only on the data collected, not on that that wasn't collected. So, if something is down for a little while, and no data's collected off that, the assumption is, well, it was down, or it was impacted, or there was a breach, or whatever, it could be any of those. So, you got to, there's still this human need, there's still the need for humans to look at the data and realize that there is the bias in there, there is, we're just looking at what data was collected, and you're going to have to make your own thoughts around that, and assumptions on how to actually use that data before you go make those decisions that can impact lots of people, at a human level, enterprise's profitability, things like that. And too often, people think of AI, when it comes out of there, that's the word. Well, it's not the word. - Can I ask a question about this? - Please. - Does that mean that we shouldn't act? - It does not. - Okay. - So, where's the fine line? - Yeah, I think. - Going back to this notion of can we do it, or should we do it? Should we act? - Yeah, I think you should do it, but you should use it for what it is. It's augmenting, it's helping you, assisting you to make a valued or good decision. And hopefully it's a better decision than you would've made without it. - I think it's great, I think also, your answer's right too, that you have to iterate faster, and faster, and faster, and discover sources of information, or sources of data that you're not currently using, and, that's why this thing starts getting really important. - I think you touch on a really good point about, should you or shouldn't you? You look at Google, and you look at the data that they've been using, and some of that out there, from a digital twin perspective, is not being approved, or not authorized, and even once they've made changes, it's still floating around out there. Where do you know where it is? So, there's this dilemma of, how do you have a digital twin that you want to have, and is going to work for you, and is going to do things for you to make your life easier, to do these things, mundane tasks, whatever? But how do you also control it to do things you don't want it to do? - Ad-based business models are inherently evil. (laughing) - Well, there's incentives to appropriate our data, and so, are things like blockchain potentially going to give users the ability to control their data? We'll see. - No, I, I'm sorry, but that's actually a really important point. The idea of consensus algorithms, whether it's blockchain or not, blockchain includes games, and something along those lines, whether it's Byzantine fault tolerance, or whether it's Paxos, consensus-based algorithms are going to be really, really important. Parts of this conversation, because the data's going to be more distributed, and you're going to have more elements participating in it. And so, something that allows, especially in the machine-to-machine world, which is a lot of what we're talking about right here, you may not have blockchain, because there's no need for a sense of incentive, which is what blockchain can help provide. - And there's no middleman. - And, well, all right, but there's really, the thing that makes blockchain so powerful is it liberates new classes of applications. But for a lot of the stuff that we're talking about, you can use a very powerful consensus algorithm without having a game side, and do some really amazing things at scale. - So, looking at blockchain, that's a great thing to bring up, right. I think what's inherently wrong with the way we do things today, and the whole overall design of technology, whether it be on-prem, or off-prem, is both the lock and key is behind the same wall. Whether that wall is in a cloud, or behind a firewall. So, really, when there is an audit, or when there is a forensics, it always comes down to a sysadmin, or something else, and the system administrator will have the finger pointed at them, because it all resides, you can edit it, you can augment it, or you can do things with it that you can't really determine. Now, take, as an example, blockchain, where you've got really the source of truth. Now you can take and have the lock in one place, and the key in another place. So that's certainly going to be interesting to see how that unfolds. - So, one of the things, it's good that, we've hit a lot of buzzwords, right now, right? (laughing) AI, and ML, block. - Bingo. - We got the blockchain bingo, yeah, yeah. So, one of the things is, you also brought up, I mean, ethics and everything, and one of the things that I've noticed over the last year or so is that, as I attend briefings or demos, everyone is now claiming that their product is AI or ML-enabled, or blockchain-enabled. And when you try to get answers to the questions, what you really find out is that some things are being pushed as, because they have if-then statements somewhere in their code, and therefore that's artificial intelligence or machine learning. - [Peter] At least it's not "go-to." (laughing) - Yeah, you're that experienced as well. (laughing) So, I mean, this is part of the thing you try to do as a practitioner, as an analyst, as an influencer, is trying to, you know, the hype of it all. And recently, I attended one where they said they use blockchain, and I couldn't figure it out, and it turns out they use GUIDs to identify things, and that's not blockchain, it's an identifier. (laughing) So, one of the ethics things that I think we, as an enterprise community, have to deal with, is the over-promising of AI, and ML, and deep learning, and recognition. It's not, I don't really consider it visual recognition services if they just look for red pixels. I mean, that's not quite the same thing. Yet, this is also making things much harder for your average CIO, or worse, CFO, to understand whether they're getting any value from these technologies. - Old bottle. - Old bottle, right. - And I wonder if the data companies, like that you talked about, or the top five, I'm more concerned about their nearly, or actual $1 trillion valuations having an impact on their ability of other companies to disrupt or enter into the field more so than their data technologies. Again, we're coming to another perfect storm of the companies that have data as their asset, even though it's still not on their financial statements, which is another indicator whether it's really an asset, is that, do we need to think about the terms of AI, about whose hands it's in, and who's, like, once one large trillion-dollar company decides that you are not a profitable company, how many other companies are going to buy that data and make that decision about you? - Well, and for the first time in business history, I think, this is true, we're seeing, because of digital, because it's data, you're seeing tech companies traverse industries, get into, whether it's content, or music, or publishing, or groceries, and that's powerful, and that's awful scary. - If you're a manger, one of the things your ownership is asking you to do is to reduce asset specificities, so that their capital could be applied to more productive uses. Data reduces asset specificities. It brings into question the whole notion of vertical industry. You're absolutely right. But you know, one quick question I got for you, playing off of this is, again, it goes back to this notion of can we do it, and should we do it? I find it interesting, if you look at those top five, all data companies, but all of them are very different business models, or they can classify the two different business models. Apple is transactional, Microsoft is transactional, Google is ad-based, Facebook is ad-based, before the fake news stuff. Amazon's kind of playing it both sides. - Yeah, they're kind of all on a collision course though, aren't they? - But, well, that's what's going to be interesting. I think, at some point in time, the "can we do it, should we do it" question is, brands are going to be identified by whether or not they have gone through that process of thinking about, should we do it, and say no. Apple is clearly, for example, incorporating that into their brand. - Well, Silicon Valley, broadly defined, if I include Seattle, and maybe Armlock, not so much IBM. But they've got a dual disruption agenda, they've always disrupted horizontal tech. Now they're disrupting vertical industries. - I was actually just going to pick up on what she was talking about, we were talking about buzzword, right. So, one we haven't heard yet is voice. Voice is another big buzzword right now, when you couple that with IoT and AI, here you go, bingo, do I got three points? (laughing) Voice recognition, voice technology, so all of the smart speakers, if you think about that in the world, there are 7,000 languages being spoken, but yet if you look at Google Home, you look at Siri, you look at any of the devices, I would challenge you, it would have a lot of problem understanding my accent, and even when my British accent creeps out, or it would have trouble understanding seniors, because the way they talk, it's very different than a typical 25-year-old person living in Silicon Valley, right. So, how do we solve that, especially going forward? We're seeing voice technology is going to be so more prominent in our homes, we're going to have it in the cars, we have it in the kitchen, it does everything, it listens to everything that we are talking about, not talking about, and records it. And to your point, is it going to start making decisions on our behalf, but then my question is, how much does it actually understand us? - So, I just want one short story. Siri can't translate a word that I ask it to translate into French, because my phone's set to Canadian English, and that's not supported. So I live in a bilingual French English country, and it can't translate. - But what this is really bringing up is if you look at society, and culture, what's legal, what's ethical, changes across the years. What was right 200 years ago is not right now, and what was right 50 years ago is not right now. - It changes across countries. - It changes across countries, it changes across regions. So, what does this mean when our AI has agency? How do we make ethical AI if we don't even know how to manage the change of what's right and what's wrong in human society? - One of the most important questions we have to worry about, right? - Absolutely. - But it also says one more thing, just before we go on. It also says that the issue of economies of scale, in the cloud. - Yes. - Are going to be strongly impacted, not just by how big you can build your data centers, but some of those regulatory issues that are going to influence strongly what constitutes good experience, good law, good acting on my behalf, agency. - And one thing that's underappreciated in the marketplace right now is the impact of data sovereignty, if you get back to data, countries are now recognizing the importance of managing that data, and they're implementing data sovereignty rules. Everyone talks about California issuing a new law that's aligned with GDPR, and you know what that meant. There are 30 other states in the United States alone that are modifying their laws to address this issue. - Steve. - So, um, so, we got a number of years, no matter what Ray Kurzweil says, until we get to artificial general intelligence. - The singularity's not so near? (laughing) - You know that he's changed the date over the last 10 years. - I did know it. - Quite a bit. And I don't even prognosticate where it's going to be. But really, where we're at right now, I keep coming back to, is that's why augmented intelligence is really going to be the new rage, humans working with machines. One of the hot topics, and the reason I chose to speak about it is, is the future of work. I don't care if you're a millennial, mid-career, or a baby boomer, people are paranoid. As machines get smarter, if your job is routine cognitive, yes, you have a higher propensity to be automated. So, this really shifts a number of things. A, you have to be a lifelong learner, you've got to learn new skillsets. And the dynamics are changing fast. Now, this is also a great equalizer for emerging startups, and even in SMBs. As the AI improves, they can become more nimble. So back to your point regarding colossal trillion dollar, wait a second, there's going to be quite a sea change going on right now, and regarding demographics, in 2020, millennials take over as the majority of the workforce, by 2025 it's 75%. - Great news. (laughing) - As a baby boomer, I try my damnedest to stay relevant. - Yeah, surround yourself with millennials is the takeaway there. - Or retire. (laughs) - Not yet. - One thing I think, this goes back to what Karen was saying, if you want a basic standard to put around the stuff, look at the old ISO 38500 framework. Business strategy, technology strategy. You have risk, compliance, change management, operations, and most importantly, the balance sheet in the financials. AI and what Tony was saying, digital transformation, if it's of meaning, it belongs on a balance sheet, and should factor into how you value your company. All the cyber security, and all of the compliance, and all of the regulation, is all stuff, this framework exists, so look it up, and every time you start some kind of new machine learning project, or data sense project, say, have we checked the box on each of these standards that's within this machine? And if you haven't, maybe slow down and do your homework. - To see a day when data is going to be valued on the balance sheet. - It is. - It's already valued as part of the current, but it's good will. - Certainly market value, as we were just talking about. - Well, we're talking about all of the companies that have opted in, right. There's tens of thousands of small businesses just in this region alone that are opt-out. They're small family businesses, or businesses that really aren't even technology-aware. But data's being collected about them, it's being on Yelp, they're being rated, they're being reviewed, the success to their business is out of their hands. And I think what's really going to be interesting is, you look at the big data, you look at AI, you look at things like that, blockchain may even be a potential for some of that, because of mutability, but it's when all of those businesses, when the technology becomes a cost, it's cost-prohibitive now, for a lot of them, or they just don't want to do it, and they're proudly opt-out. In fact, we talked about that last night at dinner. But when they opt-in, the company that can do that, and can reach out to them in a way that is economically feasible, and bring them back in, where they control their data, where they control their information, and they do it in such a way where it helps them build their business, and it may be a generational business that's been passed on. Those kind of things are going to make a big impact, not only on the cloud, but the data being stored in the cloud, the AI, the applications that you talked about earlier, we talked about that. And that's where this bias, and some of these other things are going to have a tremendous impact if they're not dealt with now, at least ethically. - Well, I feel like we just got started, we're out of time. Time for a couple more comments, and then officially we have to wrap up. - Yeah, I had one thing to say, I mean, really, Henry Ford, and the creation of the automobile, back in the early 1900s, changed everything, because now we're no longer stuck in the country, we can get away from our parents, we can date without grandma and grandpa setting on the porch with us. (laughing) We can take long trips, so now we're looked at, we've sprawled out, we're not all living in the country anymore, and it changed America. So, AI has that same capabilities, it will automate mundane routine tasks that nobody wanted to do anyway. So, a lot of that will change things, but it's not going to be any different than the way things changed in the early 1900s. - It's like you were saying, constant reinvention. - I think that's a great point, let me make one observation on that. Every period of significant industrial change was preceded by the formation, a period of formation of new assets that nobody knew what to do with. Whether it was, what do we do, you know, industrial manufacturing, it was row houses with long shafts tied to an engine that was coal-fired, and drove a bunch of looms. Same thing, railroads, large factories for Henry Ford, before he figured out how to do an information-based notion of mass production. This is the period of asset formation for the next generation of social structures. - Those ship-makers are going to be all over these cars, I mean, you're going to have augmented reality right there, on your windshield. - Karen, bring it home. Give us the drop-the-mic moment. (laughing) - No pressure. - Your AV guys are not happy with that. So, I think the, it all comes down to, it's a people problem, a challenge, let's say that. The whole AI ML thing, people, it's a legal compliance thing. Enterprises are going to struggle with trying to meet five billion different types of compliance rules around data and its uses, about enforcement, because ROI is going to make risk of incarceration as well as return on investment, and we'll have to manage both of those. I think businesses are struggling with a lot of this complexity, and you just opened a whole bunch of questions that we didn't really have solid, "Oh, you can fix it by doing this." So, it's important that we think of this new world of data focus, data-driven, everything like that, is that the entire IT and business community needs to realize that focusing on data means we have to change how we do things and how we think about it, but we also have some of the same old challenges there. - Well, I have a feeling we're going to be talking about this for quite some time. What a great way to wrap up CUBE NYC here, our third day of activities down here at 37 Pillars, or Mercantile 37. Thank you all so much for joining us today. - Thank you. - Really, wonderful insights, really appreciate it, now, all this content is going to be available on theCUBE.net. We are exposing our video cloud, and our video search engine, so you'll be able to search our entire corpus of data. I can't wait to start searching and clipping up this session. Again, thank you so much, and thank you for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Announcer: Live from the Bill Graham Auditorium in San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Pure Storage Accelerate 2018. Brought to be you by Pure Storage. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are live at Pure Storage Accelerate 2018 in San Francisco. I'm Lisa Prince Martin with Dave The Who Vellante, and we're with David Hatfield, or Hat, the president of Purse Storage. Hat, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you Lisa, great to be here. Thanks for being here. How fun is this? >> The orange is awesome. >> David: This is great. >> Super fun. >> Got to represent, we love the orange here. >> Always a good venue. >> Yeah. >> There's not enough orange. I'm not as blind yet. >> Well it's the Bill Graham, I mean it's a great venue. But not generally one for technology conferences. >> Not it's not. You guys are not conventional. >> So far so good. >> But then-- >> Thanks for keeping us out of Las Vegas for a change. >> Over my dead body I thin I've said once or twice before. >> Speaking of-- Love our customers in Vegas. Unconventional, you've said recently this is not your father's storage company. What do you mean by that? >> Well we just always want to do things a little bit less conventional. We want to be modern. We want to do things differently. We want to create an environment where it's community so our customers and our partners, prospective customers can get a feel for what we mean by doing things a little bit more modern. And so the whole orange thing is something that we all opt in for. But it's more about really helping transform customer's organizations think differently, think out of the box, and so we wanted to create a venue that forced people to think differently, and so the last three years, one was on Pier 48, we transformed that. Last year was in a big steelworkers, you know, 100 year old steel manufacturing, ship building yard which is now long since gone. But we thought the juxtaposition of that, big iron rust relative to what we're doing from a modern solid state perspective, was a good metaphor. And here it's about making music, and how can we together as an industry, develop new things and develop new songs and really help transform organizations. >> For those of you who don't know, spinning disk is known as spinning rust, right? Eventually, so very clever sort of marketing. >> The more data you put on it the slower it gets and it gets really old and we wanted to get rid of that. We wanted to have everything be online in the data center, so that was the point. >> So Hat, as you go around and talk to customers, they're going through a digital transformation, you hear all this stuff about machine intelligence, artificial intelligence, whatever you want to call it, what are the questions that you're getting? CEO's, they want to get digital right. IT professionals are wondering what's next for them. What kind of questions and conversations are you having? >> Yeah, I think it's interesting, I was just in one of the largest financial services companies in New York, and we met with the Chief Data Officer. The Chief Data Officer reports into the CEO. And he had right next to him the CIO. And so they have this development of a recognition that moving into a digital world and starting to harness the power of data requires a business context. It requires people that are trying to figure out how to extract value from the data, where does our data live? But that's created the different organization. It drives devops. I mean, if you're going to go through a digital transformation, you're going to try and get access to your data, you have to be a software development house. And that means you're going to use devops. And so what's happened from our point of view over the last 10 years is that those folks have gone to the public cloud because IT wasn't really meeting the needs of what devops needed and what the data scientists were looking for, and so what we wanted to create not only was a platform and a tool set that allowed them to bridge the gap, make things better today dramatically, but have a platform that gets you into the future, but also create a community and an ecosystem where people are aware of what's happening on the devop's side, and connect the dots between IT and the data scientists. And so we see this exploding as companies digitize, and somebody needs to be there to help kind of bridge the gap. >> So what's your point of view and advice to that IT ops person who maybe really good at provisioning LUNS, should they become more dev like? Maybe ops dev? >> Totally, I mean I think there's a huge opportunity to kind of advance your career. And a lot of what Charlie talked about and a lot of what we've been doing for nine years now, coming up on nine years, is trying to make our customers heroes. And if data is a strategic asset, so much so they're actually going to think about putting it on your balance sheet, and you're hiring Chief Data Officers, who knows more about the data than the storage and infrastructure team. They understand the limitations that we had to go through over the past. They've recognized they had to make trade offs between performance and cost. And in a shared accelerated storage platform where you have tons of IO and you can put all of your applications (mumbles) at the same time, you don't have to make those trade offs. But the people that really know that are the storage leads. And so what we want to do is give them a path for their career to become strategic in their organization. Storage should be self driving, infrastructure should be self driving. These are not things that in a boardroom people care about, gigabytes and petabytes and petaflops, and whatever metric. What they care about is how they can change their business and have a competitive advantage. How they can deliver better customer experiences, how they can put more money on the bottom line through better insights, etc. And we want to teach and work with and celebrate data heroes. You know, they're coming from the infrastructure side and connecting the dots. So the value of that data is obviously something that's new in terms of it being front and center. So who determines the value of that data? You would think it's the business line. And so there's got to be a relationship between that IT ops person and the business line. Which maybe here to for was somewhat adversarial. Business guys are calling, the clients are calling again. And the business guys are saying, oh IT, they're slow, they say no. So how are you seeing that relationship changing? >> It has to come together because, you know, it does come down to what are the insights that we can extract from our data? How much more data can we get online to be able to get those insights? And that's a combination of improving the infrastructure and making it easy and removing those trade offs that I talked about. But also being able to ask the right questions. And so a lot has to happen. You know, we have one of the leaders in devops speaking tomorrow to go through, here's what's happening on the software development and devops side. Here's what the data scientists are trying to get at. So our IT professionals understand the language, understand the problem set. But they have to come together. We have Dr. Kate Harding as well from MIT, who's brilliant and thinking about AI. Well, there's only .5% of all the data has actually been analyzed. You know, it's all in these piggy banks as Burt talked about onstage. And so we want to get rid of the piggy banks and actually create it and make it more accessible, and get more than .5% of the data to be usable. You know, bring as much of that online as possible, because it's going to provide richer insights. But up until this point storage has been a bottleneck to making that happen. It was either too costly or too complex, or it wasn't performing enough. And with what we've been able to bring through solid state natively into sort of this platform is an ability to have all of that without the trade offs. >> That number of half a percent, or less than half a percent of all data in the world is actually able to be analyzed, is really really small. I mean we talk about, often you'll here people say data's the lifeblood of an organization. Well, it's really a business catalyst. >> David: Oil. >> Right, but catalysts need to be applied to multiple reactions simultaneously. And that's what a company needs to be able to do to maximize the value. Because if you can't do that there's no value in that. >> Right. >> How are you guys helping to kind of maybe abstract storage? We hear a lot, we heard the word simplicity a lot today from Mercedes Formula One, for example. How are you partnering with customers to help them identify, where do we start narrowing down to find those needles in the haystack that are going to open up new business opportunities, new services for our business? >> Well I think, first of all, we recognize at Pure that we want to be the innovators. We want to be the folks that are, again, making things dramatically better today, but really future-proofing people for what applications and insights they want to get in the future. Charlie talked about the three-legged stool, right? There's innovations that's been happening in compute, there's innovations that have been happening over the years in networking, but storage hasn't really kept up. It literally was sort of the bottleneck that was holding people back from being able to feed the GPUs in the compute that's out there to be able to extract the insights. So we wanted to partner with the ecosystem, but we recognize an opportunity to remove the primary bottleneck, right? And if we can remove the bottleneck and we can partner with firms like NVIDIA and firms like Cisco, where you integrate the solution and make it self driving so customers don't have to worry about it. They don't have to make the trade offs in performance and cost on the backend, but it just is easy to stamp out, and so it was really great to hear Service Now and Keith walk through is story where he was able to get a 3x level improvement and something that was simple to scale as their business grew without having an impact on the customer. So we need to be part of an ecosystem. We need to partner well. We need to recognize that we're a key component of it because we think data's at the core, but we're only a component of it. The one analogy somebody shared with me when I first started at Pure was you can date your compute and networking partner but you actually get married to your storage partner. And we think that's true because data's at the core of every organization, but it's making it available and accessible and affordable so you can leverage the compute and networking stacks to make it happen. >> You've used the word platform, and I want to unpack that a little bit. Platform versus product, right? We hear platform a lot today. I think it's pretty clear that platforms beat products and that allows you to grow and penetrate the market further. It also has an implication in terms of the ecosystem and how you partner. So I wonder if you could talk about platform, what it means to you, the API economy, however you want to take that. >> Yeah, so, I mean a platform, first of all I think if you're starting a disruptive technology company, being hyper-focused on delivering something that's better and faster in every dimension, it had to be 10x in every dimension. So when we started, we said let's start with tier one block, mission critical data workloads with a product, you know our Flash Array product. It was the fastest growing product in storage I think of all time, and it still continues to be a great contributor, and it should be a multi-billion dollar business by itself. But what customers are looking for is that same consumer like or cloud like experience, all of the benefits of that simplicity and performance across their entire data set. And so as we think about providing value to customers, we want to make sure we capture as much of that 99.5% of the data and make it online and make it affordable, regardless of whether it's block, file, or object, or regardless if it's tier one, tier two, and tier three. We talk about this notion of a shared accelerated storage platform because we want to have all the applications hit it without any compromise. And in an architecture that we've provided today you can do that. So as we think about partnering, we want to go, in our strategy, we want to go get as much of the data as we possibly can and make it usable and affordable to bring online and then partner with an API first open approach. There's a ton of orchestration tools that are out there. There's great automation. We have a deep integration with ACI at Cisco. Whatever management and orchestration tools that our customer wants to use, we want to make those available. And so, as you look at our Flash Array, Flash Deck, AIRI, and Flash Blade technologies, all of them have an API open first approach. And so a lot of what we're talking about with our cloud integrations is how do we actually leverage orchestration, and how do we now allow and make it easy for customers to move data in and out of whatever clouds they may want to run from. You know, one of the key premises to the business was with this exploding data growth and whether it's 30, 40, 50 zettabytes of data over the next you know, five years, there's only two and a half or three zettabytes of internet connectivity in those same period of time. Which means that companies, and there's not enough data platform or data resources to actually handle all of it, so the temporal nature of the data, where it's created, what a data center looks like, is going to be highly distributed, and it's going to be multi cloud. And so we wanted to provide an architecture and a platform that removed the trade offs and the bottlenecks while also being open and allowing customers to take advantage of Red Shift and Red Hat and all the container technologies and platform as a service technologies that exist that are completely changing the way we can access the data. And so we're part of an ecosystem and it needs to be API and open first. >> So you had Service Now on stage today, and obviously a platform company. I mean any time they do M and A they bring that company into their platform, their applications that they build are all part of that platform. So should we think about Pure? If we think about Pure as a platform company, does that mean, I mean one of your major competitors is consolidating its portfolio. Should we think of you going forward as a platform company? In other words, you're not going to have a stovepipe set of products, or is that asking too much as you get to your next level of milestone. >> Well we think we're largely there in many respects. You know, if you look at any of the competitive technologies that are out there, you know, they have a different operating system and a different customer experience for their block products, their file products, and their object products, etc. So we wanted to have a shared system that had these similar attributes from a storage perspective and then provide a very consistent customer experience with our cloud-based Pure One platform. And so the combination of our systems, you hear Bill Cerreta talk about, you have to do different things for different protocols to be able to get the efficiencies in the data servers as people want. But ultimately you need to abstract that into a customer experience that's seamless. And so our Pure One cloud-based software allows for a consistent experience. The fact that you'll have a, one application that's leveraging block and one application that's leveraging unstructured tool sets, you want to be able to have that be in a shared accelerated storage platform. That's why Gartner's talking about that, right? Now you can do it with a solid state world. So it's super key to say, hey look, we want consistent customer experience, regardless of what data tier it used to be on or what protocol it is and we do that through our Pure One cloud-based platform. >> You guys have been pretty bullish for a long time now where competition is concerned. When we talk about AWS, you know Andy Jassy always talks about, they look forward, they're not looking at Oracle and things like that. What's that like at Pure? Are you guys really kind of, you've been also very bullish recently about NVME. Are you looking forward together with your partners and listening to the voice of the customer versus looking at what's blue over the corner? >> Yes, so first of all we have a lot of respect for companies that get big. One of my mentors told me one time that they got big because they did something well. And so we have a lot of respect for the ecosystem and companies that build a scale. And we actually want to be one of those and are already doing that. But I think it's also important to listen and be part of the community. And so we've always wanted to the pioneers. We always wanted to be the innovators. We always wanted to challenge conventions. And one of the reasons why we founded the company, why Cos and Hayes founded the company originally was because they saw that there was a bottleneck and it was a media level bottleneck. In order to remove that you need to provide a file system that was purpose built for the new media, whatever it was going to be. We chose solid state because it was a $40 billion industry thanks to our consumer products and devices. So it was a cost curve where I and D was going to happen by Samsung and Toshiba and Micron and all those guys that we could ride that curve down, allowing us to be able to get more and more of the data that's out there. And so we founded the company with the premise that you need to remove that bottleneck and you can drive innovation that was 10x better in every dimension. But we also recognize in doing so that putting an evergreen ownership model in place, you can fundamentally change the business model that customers were really frustrated by over the last 25 years. It was fair because disk has lots of moving parts, it gets slower with the more data you put on, etc., and so you pass those maintenance expenses and software onto customers. But in a solid state world you didn't need that. So what we wanted to do was actually, in addition to provide innovation that was 10x better, we wanted to provide a business model that was evergreen and cloud like in every dimension. Well, those two forces were very disruptive to the competitors. And so it's very, very hard to take a file system that's 25 years old and retrofit it to be able to really get the full value of what the stack can provide. So we focus on innovation. We focus on what the market's are doing, and we focus on our customer requirements and where we anticipate the use cases to be. And then we like to compete, too. We're a company of folks that love to win, but ultimately the real focus here is on enabling our customers to be successful, innovating forward. And so less about looking sidewise, who's blue and who's green, etc. >> But you said it before, when you were a startup, you had to be 10x better because those incumbents, even though it was an older operating system, people's processes were wired to that, so you had to give them an incentive to do that. But you have been first in a number of things. Flash itself, the sort of All-Flash, at a spinning disk price. Evergreen, you guys set the mark on that. NVME you're doing it again with no premium. I mean, everybody's going to follow. You can look back and say, look we were first, we led, we're the innovator. You're doing some things in cloud which are similar. Obviously you're doing this on purpose. But it's not just getting close to your customers. There's got to be a technology and architectural enabler for you guys. Is that? >> Well yeah, it's software, and at the end of the day if you write a file system that's purpose built for a new media, you think about the inefficiencies of that media and the benefits of that media, and so we knew it was going to be memory, we knew it was going to be silicon. It behaves differently. Reads are effectively free. Rights are expensive, right? And so that means you need to write something that's different, and so you know, it's NVME that we've been plumbing and working on for three years that provides 44,000 parallel access points. Massive parallelism, which enables these next generation of applications. So yeah we have been talking about that and inventing ways to be able to take full advantage of that. There's 3D XPoint and SCM and all kinds of really interesting technologies that are coming down the line that we want to be able to take advantage of and future proof for our customers, but in order to do that you have to have a software platform that allows for it. And that's where our competitive advantage really resides, is in the software. >> Well there are lots more software companies in Silicon Valley and outside Silicon Valley. And you guys, like I say, have achieved that escape velocity. And so that's pretty impressive, congratulations. >> Well thank you, we're just getting started, and we really appreciate all the work you guys do. So thanks for being here. >> Yeah, and we just a couple days ago with the Q1FY19, 40%, you have a year growth, you added 300 more customers. Now what, 4800 customers globally. So momentum. >> Thank you, thank you. Well we only do it if we're helping our customers one day at a time. You know, I'll tell you that this whole customer first philosophy, a lot of customers, a lot of companies talk about it, but it truly has to be integrated into the DNA of the business from the founders, and you know, Cos's whole pitch at the very beginning of this was we're going to change the media which is going to be able to transform the business model. But ultimately we want to make this as intuitive as an iPhone. You know, infrastructure should just work, and so we have this focus on delivering simplicity and delivering ownership that's future proofed from the very beginning. And you know that sort of permeates, and so you think about our growth, our growth has happened because our customers are buying more stuff from us, right? If you look at our underneath the covers on our growth, 70 plus percent of our growth every single quarter comes from customers buying more stuff, and so, as we think about how we partner and we think about how we innovate, you know, we're going to continue to build and innovate in new areas. We're going to keep partnering. You know, the data protection staff, we've got great partners like Veeam and Cohesity and Rubrik that are out there. And we're going to acquire. We do have a billion dollars of cash in the bank to be able to go do that. So we're going to listen to our customers on where they want us to do that, and that's going to guide us to the future. >> And expansion overseas. I mean, North America's 70% of your business? Is that right? >> Rough and tough. Yeah, we had 28%-- >> So it's some upside. >> Yeah, yeah, no any mature B2B systems company should line up to be 55, 45, 55 North America, 45, in line with GDP and in line with IT spend, so we made investments from the beginning knowing we wanted to be an independent company, knowing we wanted to support global 200 companies you have to have operations across multiple countries. And so globalization is always going to be key for us. We're going to continue our march on doing that. >> Delivering evergreen from an orange center. Thanks so much for joining Dave and I on the show this morning. >> Thanks Lisa, thanks Dave, nice to see you guys. >> We are theCUBE Live from Pure Accelerate 2018 from San Francisco. I'm Lisa Martin for Dave Vellante, stick around, we'll be right back with our next guests.

>> Announcer: Live from New York City it's The Cube, covering IBM data science for all. Brought to you by IBM. (light digital music) >> Welcome back to data science for all. It's a whole new game. And it is a whole new game. >> Dave Vellante, John Walls here. We've got quite a distinguished panel. So it is a new game-- >> Well we're in the game, I'm just happy to be-- (both laugh) Have a swing at the pitch. >> Well let's what we have here. Five distinguished members of our panel. It'll take me a minute to get through the introductions, but believe me they're worth it. Jennifer Shin joins us. Jennifer's the founder of 8 Path Solutions, the director of the data science of Comcast and part of the faculty at UC Berkeley and NYU. Jennifer, nice to have you with us, we appreciate the time. Joe McKendrick an analyst and contributor of Forbes and ZDNet, Joe, thank you for being here at well. Another ZDNetter next to him, Dion Hinchcliffe, who is a vice president and principal analyst of Constellation Research and also contributes to ZDNet. Good to see you, sir. To the back row, but that doesn't mean anything about the quality of the participation here. Bob Hayes with a killer Batman shirt on by the way, which we'll get to explain in just a little bit. He runs the Business over Broadway. And Joe Caserta, who the founder of Caserta Concepts. Welcome to all of you. Thanks for taking the time to be with us. Jennifer, let me just begin with you. Obviously as a practitioner you're very involved in the industry, you're on the academic side as well. We mentioned Berkeley, NYU, steep experience. So I want you to kind of take your foot in both worlds and tell me about data science. I mean where do we stand now from those two perspectives? How have we evolved to where we are? And how would you describe, I guess the state of data science? >> Yeah so I think that's a really interesting question. There's a lot of changes happening. In part because data science has now become much more established, both in the academic side as well as in industry. So now you see some of the bigger problems coming out. People have managed to have data pipelines set up. But now there are these questions about models and accuracy and data integration. So the really cool stuff from the data science standpoint. We get to get really into the details of the data. And I think on the academic side you now see undergraduate programs, not just graduate programs, but undergraduate programs being involved. UC Berkeley just did a big initiative that they're going to offer data science to undergrads. So that's a huge news for the university. So I think there's a lot of interest from the academic side to continue data science as a major, as a field. But I think in industry one of the difficulties you're now having is businesses are now asking that question of ROI, right? What do I actually get in return in the initial years? So I think there's a lot of work to be done and just a lot of opportunity. It's great because people now understand better with data sciences, but I think data sciences have to really think about that seriously and take it seriously and really think about how am I actually getting a return, or adding a value to the business? >> And there's lot to be said is there not, just in terms of increasing the workforce, the acumen, the training that's required now. It's a still relatively new discipline. So is there a shortage issue? Or is there just a great need? Is the opportunity there? I mean how would you look at that? >> Well I always think there's opportunity to be smart. If you can be smarter, you know it's always better. It gives you advantages in the workplace, it gets you an advantage in academia. The question is, can you actually do the work? The work's really hard, right? You have to learn all these different disciplines, you have to be able to technically understand data. Then you have to understand it conceptually. You have to be able to model with it, you have to be able to explain it. There's a lot of aspects that you're not going to pick up overnight. So I think part of it is endurance. Like are people going to feel motivated enough and dedicate enough time to it to get very good at that skill set. And also of course, you know in terms of industry, will there be enough interest in the long term that there will be a financial motivation. For people to keep staying in the field, right? So I think it's definitely a lot of opportunity. But that's always been there. Like I tell people I think of myself as a scientist and data science happens to be my day job. That's just the job title. But if you are a scientist and you work with data you'll always want to work with data. I think that's just an inherent need. It's kind of a compulsion, you just kind of can't help yourself, but dig a little bit deeper, ask the questions, you can't not think about it. So I think that will always exist. Whether or not it's an industry job in the way that we see it today, and like five years from now, or 10 years from now. I think that's something that's up for debate. >> So all of you have watched the evolution of data and how it effects organizations for a number of years now. If you go back to the days when data warehouse was king, we had a lot of promises about 360 degree views of the customer and how we were going to be more anticipatory in terms and more responsive. In many ways the decision support systems and the data warehousing world didn't live up to those promises. They solved other problems for sure. And so everybody was looking for big data to solve those problems. And they've begun to attack many of them. We talked earlier in The Cube today about fraud detection, it's gotten much, much better. Certainly retargeting of advertising has gotten better. But I wonder if you could comment, you know maybe start with Joe. As to the effect that data and data sciences had on organizations in terms of fulfilling that vision of a 360 degree view of customers and anticipating customer needs. >> So. Data warehousing, I wouldn't say failed. But I think it was unfinished in order to achieve what we need done today. At the time I think it did a pretty good job. I think it was the only place where we were able to collect data from all these different systems, have it in a single place for analytics. The big difference between what I think, between data warehousing and data science is data warehouses were primarily made for the consumer to human beings. To be able to have people look through some tool and be able to analyze data manually. That really doesn't work anymore, there's just too much data to do that. So that's why we need to build a science around it so that we can actually have machines actually doing the analytics for us. And I think that's the biggest stride in the evolution over the past couple of years, that now we're actually able to do that, right? It used to be very, you know you go back to when data warehouses started, you had to be a deep technologist in order to be able to collect the data, write the programs to clean the data. But now you're average causal IT person can do that. Right now I think we're back in data science where you have to be a fairly sophisticated programmer, analyst, scientist, statistician, engineer, in order to do what we need to do, in order to make machines actually understand the data. But I think part of the evolution, we're just in the forefront. We're going to see over the next, not even years, within the next year I think a lot of new innovation where the average person within business and definitely the average person within IT will be able to do as easily say, "What are my sales going to be next year?" As easy as it is to say, "What were my sales last year." Where now it's a big deal. Right now in order to do that you have to build some algorithms, you have to be a specialist on predictive analytics. And I think, you know as the tools mature, as people using data matures, and as the technology ecosystem for data matures, it's going to be easier and more accessible. >> So it's still too hard. (laughs) That's something-- >> Joe C.: Today it is yes. >> You've written about and talked about. >> Yeah no question about it. We see this citizen data scientist. You know we talked about the democratization of data science but the way we talk about analytics and warehousing and all the tools we had before, they generated a lot of insights and views on the information, but they didn't really give us the science part. And that's, I think that what's missing is the forming of the hypothesis, the closing of the loop of. We now have use of this data, but are are changing, are we thinking about it strategically? Are we learning from it and then feeding that back into the process. I think that's the big difference between data science and the analytics side. But, you know just like Google made search available to everyone, not just people who had highly specialized indexers or crawlers. Now we can have tools that make these capabilities available to anyone. You know going back to what Joe said I think the key thing is we now have tools that can look at all the data and ask all the questions. 'Cause we can't possibly do it all ourselves. Our organizations are increasingly awash in data. Which is the life blood of our organizations, but we're not using it, you know this a whole concept of dark data. And so I think the concept, or the promise of opening these tools up for everyone to be able to access those insights and activate them, I think that, you know, that's where it's headed. >> This is kind of where the T shirt comes in right? So Bob if you would, so you've got this Batman shirt on. We talked a little bit about it earlier, but it plays right into what Dion's talking about. About tools and, I don't want to spoil it, but you go ahead (laughs) and tell me about it. >> Right, so. Batman is a super hero, but he doesn't have any supernatural powers, right? He can't fly on his own, he can't become invisible on his own. But the thing is he has the utility belt and he has these tools he can use to help him solve problems. For example he as the bat ring when he's confronted with a building that he wants to get over, right? So he pulls it out and uses that. So as data professionals we have all these tools now that these vendors are making. We have IBM SPSS, we have data science experience. IMB Watson that these data pros can now use it as part of their utility belt and solve problems that they're confronted with. So if you''re ever confronted with like a Churn problem and you have somebody who has access to that data they can put that into IBM Watson, ask a question and it'll tell you what's the key driver of Churn. So it's not that you have to be a superhuman to be a data scientist, but these tools will help you solve certain problems and help your business go forward. >> Joe McKendrick, do you have a comment? >> Does that make the Batmobile the Watson? (everyone laughs) Analogy? >> I was just going to add that, you know all of the billionaires in the world today and none of them decided to become Batman yet. It's very disappointing. >> Yeah. (Joe laughs) >> Go ahead Joe. >> And I just want to add some thoughts to our discussion about what happened with data warehousing. I think it's important to point out as well that data warehousing, as it existed, was fairly successful but for larger companies. Data warehousing is a very expensive proposition it remains a expensive proposition. Something that's in the domain of the Fortune 500. But today's economy is based on a very entrepreneurial model. The Fortune 500s are out there of course it's ever shifting. But you have a lot of smaller companies a lot of people with start ups. You have people within divisions of larger companies that want to innovate and not be tied to the corporate balance sheet. They want to be able to go through, they want to innovate and experiment without having to go through finance and the finance department. So there's all these open source tools available. There's cloud resources as well as open source tools. Hadoop of course being a prime example where you can work with the data and experiment with the data and practice data science at a very low cost. >> Dion mentioned the C word, citizen data scientist last year at the panel. We had a conversation about that. And the data scientists on the panel generally were like, "Stop." Okay, we're not all of a sudden going to turn everybody into data scientists however, what we want to do is get people thinking about data, more focused on data, becoming a data driven organization. I mean as a data scientist I wonder if you could comment on that. >> Well I think so the other side of that is, you know there are also many people who maybe didn't, you know follow through with science, 'cause it's also expensive. A PhD takes a lot of time. And you know if you don't get funding it's a lot of money. And for very little security if you think about how hard it is to get a teaching job that's going to give you enough of a pay off to pay that back. Right, the time that you took off, the investment that you made. So I think the other side of that is by making data more accessible, you allow people who could have been great in science, have an opportunity to be great data scientists. And so I think for me the idea of citizen data scientist, that's where the opportunity is. I think in terms of democratizing data and making it available for everyone, I feel as though it's something similar to the way we didn't really know what KPIs were, maybe 20 years ago. People didn't use it as readily, didn't teach it in schools. I think maybe 10, 20 years from now, some of the things that we're building today from data science, hopefully more people will understand how to use these tools. They'll have a better understanding of working with data and what that means, and just data literacy right? Just being able to use these tools and be able to understand what data's saying and actually what it's not saying. Which is the thing that most people don't think about. But you can also say that data doesn't say anything. There's a lot of noise in it. There's too much noise to be able to say that there is a result. So I think that's the other side of it. So yeah I guess in terms for me, in terms of data a serious data scientist, I think it's a great idea to have that, right? But at the same time of course everyone kind of emphasized you don't want everyone out there going, "I can be a data scientist without education, "without statistics, without math," without understanding of how to implement the process. I've seen a lot of companies implement the same sort of process from 10, 20 years ago just on Hadoop instead of SQL. Right and it's very inefficient. And the only difference is that you can build more tables wrong than they could before. (everyone laughs) Which is I guess >> For less. it's an accomplishment and for less, it's cheaper, yeah. >> It is cheaper. >> Otherwise we're like I'm not a data scientist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, right? >> Yeah. (panelists laugh) And there's like a little bit of pride that like they used 2,000, you know they used 2,000 computers to do it. Like a little bit of pride about that, but you know of course maybe not a great way to go. I think 20 years we couldn't do that, right? One computer was already an accomplishment to have that resource. So I think you have to think about the fact that if you're doing it wrong, you're going to just make that mistake bigger, which his also the other side of working with data. >> Sure, Bob. >> Yeah I have a comment about that. I've never liked the term citizen data scientist or citizen scientist. I get the point of it and I think employees within companies can help in the data analytics problem by maybe being a data collector or something. I mean I would never have just somebody become a scientist based on a few classes here she takes. It's like saying like, "Oh I'm going to be a citizen lawyer." And so you come to me with your legal problems, or a citizen surgeon. Like you need training to be good at something. You can't just be good at something just 'cause you want to be. >> John: Joe you wanted to say something too on that. >> Since we're in New York City I'd like to use the analogy of a real scientist versus a data scientist. So real scientist requires tools, right? And the tools are not new, like microscopes and a laboratory and a clean room. And these tools have evolved over years and years, and since we're in New York we could walk within a 10 block radius and buy any of those tools. It doesn't make us a scientist because we use those tools. I think with data, you know making, making the tools evolve and become easier to use, you know like Bob was saying, it doesn't make you a better data scientist, it just makes the data more accessible. You know we can go buy a microscope, we can go buy Hadoop, we can buy any kind of tool in a data ecosystem, but it doesn't really make you a scientist. I'm very involved in the NYU data science program and the Columbia data science program, like these kids are brilliant. You know these kids are not someone who is, you know just trying to run a day to day job, you know in corporate America. I think the people who are running the day to day job in corporate America are going to be the recipients of data science. Just like people who take drugs, right? As a result of a smart data scientist coming up with a formula that can help people, I think we're going to make it easier to distribute the data that can help people with all the new tools. But it doesn't really make it, you know the access to the data and tools available doesn't really make you a better data scientist. Without, like Bob was saying, without better training and education. >> So how-- I'm sorry, how do you then, if it's not for everybody, but yet I'm the user at the end of the day at my company and I've got these reams of data before me, how do you make it make better sense to me then? So that's where machine learning comes in or artificial intelligence and all this stuff. So how at the end of the day, Dion? How do you make it relevant and usable, actionable to somebody who might not be as practiced as you would like? >> I agree with Joe that many of us will be the recipients of data science. Just like you had to be a computer science at one point to develop programs for a computer, now we can get the programs. You don't need to be a computer scientist to get a lot of value out of our IT systems. The same thing's going to happen with data science. There's far more demand for data science than there ever could be produced by, you know having an ivory tower filled with data scientists. Which we need those guys, too, don't get me wrong. But we need to have, productize it and make it available in packages such that it can be consumed. The outputs and even some of the inputs can be provided by mere mortals, whether that's machine learning or artificial intelligence or bots that go off and run the hypotheses and select the algorithms maybe with some human help. We have to productize it. This is a constant of data scientist of service, which is becoming a thing now. It's, "I need this, I need this capability at scale. "I need it fast and I need it cheap." The commoditization of data science is going to happen. >> That goes back to what I was saying about, the recipient also of data science is also machines, right? Because I think the other thing that's happening now in the evolution of data is that, you know the data is, it's so tightly coupled. Back when you were talking about data warehousing you have all the business transactions then you take the data out of those systems, you put them in a warehouse for analysis, right? Maybe they'll make a decision to change that system at some point. Now the analytics platform and the business application is very tightly coupled. They become dependent upon one another. So you know people who are using the applications are now be able to take advantage of the insights of data analytics and data science, just through the app. Which never really existed before. >> I have one comment on that. You were talking about how do you get the end user more involved, well like we said earlier data science is not easy, right? As an end user, I encourage you to take a stats course, just a basic stats course, understanding what a mean is, variability, regression analysis, just basic stuff. So you as an end user can get more, or glean more insight from the reports that you're given, right? If you go to France and don't know French, then people can speak really slowly to you in French, you're not going to get it. You need to understand the language of data to get value from the technology we have available to us. >> Incidentally French is one of the languages that you have the option of learning if you're a mathematicians. So math PhDs are required to learn a second language. France being the country of algebra, that's one of the languages you could actually learn. Anyway tangent. But going back to the point. So statistics courses, definitely encourage it. I teach statistics. And one of the things that I'm finding as I go through the process of teaching it I'm actually bringing in my experience. And by bringing in my experience I'm actually kind of making the students think about the data differently. So the other thing people don't think about is the fact that like statisticians typically were expected to do, you know, just basic sort of tasks. In a sense that they're knowledge is specialized, right? But the day to day operations was they ran some data, you know they ran a test on some data, looked at the results, interpret the results based on what they were taught in school. They didn't develop that model a lot of times they just understand what the tests were saying, especially in the medical field. So when you when think about things like, we have words like population, census. Which is when you take data from every single, you have every single data point versus a sample, which is a subset. It's a very different story now that we're collecting faster than it used to be. It used to be the idea that you could collect information from everyone. Like it happens once every 10 years, we built that in. But nowadays you know, you know here about Facebook, for instance, I think they claimed earlier this year that their data was more accurate than the census data. So now there are these claims being made about which data source is more accurate. And I think the other side of this is now statisticians are expected to know data in a different way than they were before. So it's not just changing as a field in data science, but I think the sciences that are using data are also changing their fields as well. >> Dave: So is sampling dead? >> Well no, because-- >> Should it be? (laughs) >> Well if you're sampling wrong, yes. That's really the question. >> Okay. You know it's been said that the data doesn't lie, people do. Organizations are very political. Oftentimes you know, lies, damned lies and statistics, Benjamin Israeli. Are you seeing a change in the way in which organizations are using data in the context of the politics. So, some strong P&L manager say gets data and crafts it in a way that he or she can advance their agenda. Or they'll maybe attack a data set that is, probably should drive them in a different direction, but might be antithetical to their agenda. Are you seeing data, you know we talked about democratizing data, are you seeing that reduce the politics inside of organizations? >> So you know we've always used data to tell stories at the top level of an organization that's what it's all about. And I still see very much that no matter how much data science or, the access to the truth through looking at the numbers that story telling is still the political filter through which all that data still passes, right? But it's the advent of things like Block Chain, more and more corporate records and corporate information is going to end up in these open and shared repositories where there is not alternate truth. It'll come back to whoever tells the best stories at the end of the day. So I still see the organizations are very political. We are seeing now more open data though. Open data initiatives are a big thing, both in government and in the private sector. It is having an effect, but it's slow and steady. So that's what I see. >> Um, um, go ahead. >> I was just going to say as well. Ultimately I think data driven decision making is a great thing. And it's especially useful at the lower tiers of the organization where you have the routine day to day's decisions that could be automated through machine learning and deep learning. The algorithms can be improved on a constant basis. On the upper levels, you know that's why you pay executives the big bucks in the upper levels to make the strategic decisions. And data can help them, but ultimately, data, IT, technology alone will not create new markets, it will not drive new businesses, it's up to human beings to do that. The technology is the tool to help them make those decisions. But creating businesses, growing businesses, is very much a human activity. And that's something I don't see ever getting replaced. Technology might replace many other parts of the organization, but not that part. >> I tend to be a foolish optimist when it comes to this stuff. >> You do. (laughs) >> I do believe that data will make the world better. I do believe that data doesn't lie people lie. You know I think as we start, I'm already seeing trends in industries, all different industries where, you know conventional wisdom is starting to get trumped by analytics. You know I think it's still up to the human being today to ignore the facts and go with what they think in their gut and sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. But generally if they lose the data will tell them that they should have gone the other way. I think as we start relying more on data and trusting data through artificial intelligence, as we start making our lives a little bit easier, as we start using smart cars for safety, before replacement of humans. AS we start, you know, using data really and analytics and data science really as the bumpers, instead of the vehicle, eventually we're going to start to trust it as the vehicle itself. And then it's going to make lying a little bit harder. >> Okay, so great, excellent. Optimism, I love it. (John laughs) So I'm going to play devil's advocate here a little bit. There's a couple elephant in the room topics that I want to, to explore a little bit. >> Here it comes. >> There was an article today in Wired. And it was called, Why AI is Still Waiting for It's Ethics Transplant. And, I will just read a little segment from there. It says, new ethical frameworks for AI need to move beyond individual responsibility to hold powerful industrial, government and military interests accountable as they design and employ AI. When tech giants build AI products, too often user consent, privacy and transparency are overlooked in favor of frictionless functionality that supports profit driven business models based on aggregate data profiles. This is from Kate Crawford and Meredith Whittaker who founded AI Now. And they're calling for sort of, almost clinical trials on AI, if I could use that analogy. Before you go to market you've got to test the human impact, the social impact. Thoughts. >> And also have the ability for a human to intervene at some point in the process. This goes way back. Is everybody familiar with the name Stanislav Petrov? He's the Soviet officer who back in 1983, it was in the control room, I guess somewhere outside of Moscow in the control room, which detected a nuclear missile attack against the Soviet Union coming out of the United States. Ordinarily I think if this was an entirely AI driven process we wouldn't be sitting here right now talking about it. But this gentlemen looked at what was going on on the screen and, I'm sure he's accountable to his authorities in the Soviet Union. He probably got in a lot of trouble for this, but he decided to ignore the signals, ignore the data coming out of, from the Soviet satellites. And as it turned out, of course he was right. The Soviet satellites were seeing glints of the sun and they were interpreting those glints as missile launches. And I think that's a great example why, you know every situation of course doesn't mean the end of the world, (laughs) it was in this case. But it's a great example why there needs to be a human component, a human ability for human intervention at some point in the process. >> So other thoughts. I mean organizations are driving AI hard for profit. Best minds of our generation are trying to figure out how to get people to click on ads. Jeff Hammerbacher is famous for saying it. >> You can use data for a lot of things, data analytics, you can solve, you can cure cancer. You can make customers click on more ads. It depends on what you're goal is. But, there are ethical considerations we need to think about. When we have data that will have a racial bias against blacks and have them have higher prison sentences or so forth or worse credit scores, so forth. That has an impact on a broad group of people. And as a society we need to address that. And as scientists we need to consider how are we going to fix that problem? Cathy O'Neil in her book, Weapons of Math Destruction, excellent book, I highly recommend that your listeners read that book. And she talks about these issues about if AI, if algorithms have a widespread impact, if they adversely impact protected group. And I forget the last criteria, but like we need to really think about these things as a people, as a country. >> So always think the idea of ethics is interesting. So I had this conversation come up a lot of times when I talk to data scientists. I think as a concept, right as an idea, yes you want things to be ethical. The question I always pose to them is, "Well in the business setting "how are you actually going to do this?" 'Cause I find the most difficult thing working as a data scientist, is to be able to make the day to day decision of when someone says, "I don't like that number," how do you actually get around that. If that's the right data to be showing someone or if that's accurate. And say the business decides, "Well we don't like that number." Many people feel pressured to then change the data, change, or change what the data shows. So I think being able to educate people to be able to find ways to say what the data is saying, but not going past some line where it's a lie, where it's unethical. 'Cause you can also say what data doesn't say. You don't always have to say what the data does say. You can leave it as, "Here's what we do know, "but here's what we don't know." There's a don't know part that many people will omit when they talk about data. So I think, you know especially when it comes to things like AI it's tricky, right? Because I always tell people I don't know everyone thinks AI's going to be so amazing. I started an industry by fixing problems with computers that people didn't realize computers had. For instance when you have a system, a lot of bugs, we all have bug reports that we've probably submitted. I mean really it's no where near the point where it's going to start dominating our lives and taking over all the jobs. Because frankly it's not that advanced. It's still run by people, still fixed by people, still managed by people. I think with ethics, you know a lot of it has to do with the regulations, what the laws say. That's really going to be what's involved in terms of what people are willing to do. A lot of businesses, they want to make money. If there's no rules that says they can't do certain things to make money, then there's no restriction. I think the other thing to think about is we as consumers, like everyday in our lives, we shouldn't separate the idea of data as a business. We think of it as a business person, from our day to day consumer lives. Meaning, yes I work with data. Incidentally I also always opt out of my credit card, you know when they send you that information, they make you actually mail them, like old school mail, snail mail like a document that says, okay I don't want to be part of this data collection process. Which I always do. It's a little bit more work, but I go through that step of doing that. Now if more people did that, perhaps companies would feel more incentivized to pay you for your data, or give you more control of your data. Or at least you know, if a company's going to collect information, I'd want you to be certain processes in place to ensure that it doesn't just get sold, right? For instance if a start up gets acquired what happens with that data they have on you? You agree to give it to start up. But I mean what are the rules on that? So I think we have to really think about the ethics from not just, you know, someone who's going to implement something but as consumers what control we have for our own data. 'Cause that's going to directly impact what businesses can do with our data. >> You know you mentioned data collection. So slightly on that subject. All these great new capabilities we have coming. We talked about what's going to happen with media in the future and what 5G technology's going to do to mobile and these great bandwidth opportunities. The internet of things and the internet of everywhere. And all these great inputs, right? Do we have an arms race like are we keeping up with the capabilities to make sense of all the new data that's going to be coming in? And how do those things square up in this? Because the potential is fantastic, right? But are we keeping up with the ability to make it make sense and to put it to use, Joe? >> So I think data ingestion and data integration is probably one of the biggest challenges. I think, especially as the world is starting to become more dependent on data. I think you know, just because we're dependent on numbers we've come up with GAAP, which is generally accepted accounting principles that can be audited and proven whether it's true or false. I think in our lifetime we will see something similar to that we will we have formal checks and balances of data that we use that can be audited. Getting back to you know what Dave was saying earlier about, I personally would trust a machine that was programmed to do the right thing, than to trust a politician or some leader that may have their own agenda. And I think the other thing about machines is that they are auditable. You know you can look at the code and see exactly what it's doing and how it's doing it. Human beings not so much. So I think getting to the truth, even if the truth isn't the answer that we want, I think is a positive thing. It's something that we can't do today that once we start relying on machines to do we'll be able to get there. >> Yeah I was just going to add that we live in exponential times. And the challenge is that the way that we're structured traditionally as organizations is not allowing us to absorb advances exponentially, it's linear at best. Everyone talks about change management and how are we going to do digital transformation. Evidence shows that technology's forcing the leaders and the laggards apart. There's a few leading organizations that are eating the world and they seem to be somehow rolling out new things. I don't know how Amazon rolls out all this stuff. There's all this artificial intelligence and the IOT devices, Alexa, natural language processing and that's just a fraction, it's just a tip of what they're releasing. So it just shows that there are some organizations that have path found the way. Most of the Fortune 500 from the year 2000 are gone already, right? The disruption is happening. And so we are trying, have to find someway to adopt these new capabilities and deploy them effectively or the writing is on the wall. I spent a lot of time exploring this topic, how are we going to get there and all of us have a lot of hard work is the short answer. >> I read that there's going to be more data, or it was predicted, more data created in this year than in the past, I think it was five, 5,000 years. >> Forever. (laughs) >> And that to mix the statistics that we're analyzing currently less than 1% of the data. To taking those numbers and hear what you're all saying it's like, we're not keeping up, it seems like we're, it's not even linear. I mean that gap is just going to grow and grow and grow. How do we close that? >> There's a guy out there named Chris Dancy, he's known as the human cyborg. He has 700 hundred sensors all over his body. And his theory is that data's not new, having access to the data is new. You know we've always had a blood pressure, we've always had a sugar level. But we were never able to actually capture it in real time before. So now that we can capture and harness it, now we can be smarter about it. So I think that being able to use this information is really incredible like, this is something that over our lifetime we've never had and now we can do it. Which hence the big explosion in data. But I think how we use it and have it governed I think is the challenge right now. It's kind of cowboys and indians out there right now. And without proper governance and without rigorous regulation I think we are going to have some bumps in the road along the way. >> The data's in the oil is the question how are we actually going to operationalize around it? >> Or find it. Go ahead. >> I will say the other side of it is, so if you think about information, we always have the same amount of information right? What we choose to record however, is a different story. Now if you want wanted to know things about the Olympics, but you decide to collect information every day for years instead of just the Olympic year, yes you have a lot of data, but did you need all of that data? For that question about the Olympics, you don't need to collect data during years there are no Olympics, right? Unless of course you're comparing it relative. But I think that's another thing to think about. Just 'cause you collect more data does not mean that data will produce more statistically significant results, it does not mean it'll improve your model. You can be collecting data about your shoe size trying to get information about your hair. I mean it really does depend on what you're trying to measure, what your goals are, and what the data's going to be used for. If you don't factor the real world context into it, then yeah you can collect data, you know an infinite amount of data, but you'll never process it. Because you have no question to ask you're not looking to model anything. There is no universal truth about everything, that just doesn't exist out there. >> I think she's spot on. It comes down to what kind of questions are you trying to ask of your data? You can have one given database that has 100 variables in it, right? And you can ask it five different questions, all valid questions and that data may have those variables that'll tell you what's the best predictor of Churn, what's the best predictor of cancer treatment outcome. And if you can ask the right question of the data you have then that'll give you some insight. Just data for data's sake, that's just hype. We have a lot of data but it may not lead to anything if we don't ask it the right questions. >> Joe. >> I agree but I just want to add one thing. This is where the science in data science comes in. Scientists often will look at data that's already been in existence for years, weather forecasts, weather data, climate change data for example that go back to data charts and so forth going back centuries if that data is available. And they reformat, they reconfigure it, they get new uses out of it. And the potential I see with the data we're collecting is it may not be of use to us today, because we haven't thought of ways to use it, but maybe 10, 20, even 100 years from now someone's going to think of a way to leverage the data, to look at it in new ways and to come up with new ideas. That's just my thought on the science aspect. >> Knowing what you know about data science, why did Facebook miss Russia and the fake news trend? They came out and admitted it. You know, we miss it, why? Could they have, is it because they were focused elsewhere? Could they have solved that problem? (crosstalk) >> It's what you said which is are you asking the right questions and if you're not looking for that problem in exactly the way that it occurred you might not be able to find it. >> I thought the ads were paid in rubles. Shouldn't that be your first clue (panelists laugh) that something's amiss? >> You know red flag, so to speak. >> Yes. >> I mean Bitcoin maybe it could have hidden it. >> Bob: Right, exactly. >> I would think too that what happened last year is actually was the end of an age of optimism. I'll bring up the Soviet Union again, (chuckles). It collapsed back in 1991, 1990, 1991, Russia was reborn in. And think there was a general feeling of optimism in the '90s through the 2000s that Russia is now being well integrated into the world economy as other nations all over the globe, all continents are being integrated into the global economy thanks to technology. And technology is lifting entire continents out of poverty and ensuring more connectedness for people. Across Africa, India, Asia, we're seeing those economies that very different countries than 20 years ago and that extended into Russia as well. Russia is part of the global economy. We're able to communicate as a global, a global network. I think as a result we kind of overlook the dark side that occurred. >> John: Joe? >> Again, the foolish optimist here. But I think that... It shouldn't be the question like how did we miss it? It's do we have the ability now to catch it? And I think without data science without machine learning, without being able to train machines to look for patterns that involve corruption or result in corruption, I think we'd be out of luck. But now we have those tools. And now hopefully, optimistically, by the next election we'll be able to detect these things before they become public. >> It's a loaded question because my premise was Facebook had the ability and the tools and the knowledge and the data science expertise if in fact they wanted to solve that problem, but they were focused on other problems, which is how do I get people to click on ads? >> Right they had the ability to train the machines, but they were giving the machines the wrong training. >> Looking under the wrong rock. >> (laughs) That's right. >> It is easy to play armchair quarterback. Another topic I wanted to ask the panel about is, IBM Watson. You guys spend time in the Valley, I spend time in the Valley. People in the Valley poo-poo Watson. Ah, Google, Facebook, Amazon they've got the best AI. Watson, and some of that's fair criticism. Watson's a heavy lift, very services oriented, you just got to apply it in a very focused. At the same time Google's trying to get you to click on Ads, as is Facebook, Amazon's trying to get you to buy stuff. IBM's trying to solve cancer. Your thoughts on that sort of juxtaposition of the different AI suppliers and there may be others. Oh, nobody wants to touch this one, come on. I told you elephant in the room questions. >> Well I mean you're looking at two different, very different types of organizations. One which is really spent decades in applying technology to business and these other companies are ones that are primarily into the consumer, right? When we talk about things like IBM Watson you're looking at a very different type of solution. You used to be able to buy IT and once you installed it you pretty much could get it to work and store your records or you know, do whatever it is you needed it to do. But these types of tools, like Watson actually tries to learn your business. And it needs to spend time doing that watching the data and having its models tuned. And so you don't get the results right away. And I think that's been kind of the challenge that organizations like IBM has had. Like this is a different type of technology solution, one that has to actually learn first before it can provide value. And so I think you know you have organizations like IBM that are much better at applying technology to business, and then they have the further hurdle of having to try to apply these tools that work in very different ways. There's education too on the side of the buyer. >> I'd have to say that you know I think there's plenty of businesses out there also trying to solve very significant, meaningful problems. You know with Microsoft AI and Google AI and IBM Watson, I think it's not really the tool that matters, like we were saying earlier. A fool with a tool is still a fool. And regardless of who the manufacturer of that tool is. And I think you know having, a thoughtful, intelligent, trained, educated data scientist using any of these tools can be equally effective. >> So do you not see core AI competence and I left out Microsoft, as a strategic advantage for these companies? Is it going to be so ubiquitous and available that virtually anybody can apply it? Or is all the investment in R&D and AI going to pay off for these guys? >> Yeah, so I think there's different levels of AI, right? So there's AI where you can actually improve the model. I remember when I was invited when Watson was kind of first out by IBM to a private, sort of presentation. And my question was, "Okay, so when do I get "to access the corpus?" The corpus being sort of the foundation of NLP, which is natural language processing. So it's what you use as almost like a dictionary. Like how you're actually going to measure things, or things up. And they said, "Oh you can't." "What do you mean I can't?" It's like, "We do that." "So you're telling me as a data scientist "you're expecting me to rely on the fact "that you did it better than me and I should rely on that." I think over the years after that IBM started opening it up and offering different ways of being able to access the corpus and work with that data. But I remember at the first Watson hackathon there was only two corpus available. It was either the travel or medicine. There was no other foundational data available. So I think one of the difficulties was, you know IBM being a little bit more on the forefront of it they kind of had that burden of having to develop these systems and learning kind of the hard way that if you don't have the right models and you don't have the right data and you don't have the right access, that's going to be a huge limiter. I think with things like medical, medical information that's an extremely difficult data to start with. Partly because you know anything that you do find or don't find, the impact is significant. If I'm looking at things like what people clicked on the impact of using that data wrong, it's minimal. You might lose some money. If you do that with healthcare data, if you do that with medical data, people may die, like this is a much more difficult data set to start with. So I think from a scientific standpoint it's great to have any information about a new technology, new process. That's the nice that is that IBM's obviously invested in it and collected information. I think the difficulty there though is just 'cause you have it you can't solve everything. And if feel like from someone who works in technology, I think in general when you appeal to developers you try not to market. And with Watson it's very heavily marketed, which tends to turn off people who are more from the technical side. Because I think they don't like it when it's gimmicky in part because they do the opposite of that. They're always trying to build up the technical components of it. They don't like it when you're trying to convince them that you're selling them something when you could just give them the specs and look at it. So it could be something as simple as communication. But I do think it is valuable to have had a company who leads on the forefront of that and try to do so we can actually learn from what IBM has learned from this process. >> But you're an optimist. (John laughs) All right, good. >> Just one more thought. >> Joe go ahead first. >> Joe: I want to see how Alexa or Siri do on Jeopardy. (panelists laugh) >> All right. Going to go around a final thought, give you a second. Let's just think about like your 12 month crystal ball. In terms of either challenges that need to be met in the near term or opportunities you think will be realized. 12, 18 month horizon. Bob you've got the microphone headed up, so I'll let you lead off and let's just go around. >> I think a big challenge for business, for society is getting people educated on data and analytics. There's a study that was just released I think last month by Service Now, I think, or some vendor, or Click. They found that only 17% of the employees in Europe have the ability to use data in their job. Think about that. >> 17. >> 17. Less than 20%. So these people don't have the ability to understand or use data intelligently to improve their work performance. That says a lot about the state we're in today. And that's Europe. It's probably a lot worse in the United States. So that's a big challenge I think. To educate the masses. >> John: Joe. >> I think we probably have a better chance of improving technology over training people. I think using data needs to be iPhone easy. And I think, you know which means that a lot of innovation is in the years to come. I do think that a keyboard is going to be a thing of the past for the average user. We are going to start using voice a lot more. I think augmented reality is going to be things that becomes a real reality. Where we can hold our phone in front of an object and it will have an overlay of prices where it's available, if it's a person. I think that we will see within an organization holding a camera up to someone and being able to see what is their salary, what sales did they do last year, some key performance indicators. I hope that we are beyond the days of everyone around the world walking around like this and we start actually becoming more social as human beings through augmented reality. I think, it has to happen. I think we're going through kind of foolish times at the moment in order to get to the greater good. And I think the greater good is using technology in a very, very smart way. Which means that you shouldn't have to be, sorry to contradict, but maybe it's good to counterpoint. I don't think you need to have a PhD in SQL to use data. Like I think that's 1990. I think as we evolve it's going to become easier for the average person. Which means people like the brain trust here needs to get smarter and start innovating. I think the innovation around data is really at the tip of the iceberg, we're going to see a lot more of it in the years to come. >> Dion why don't you go ahead, then we'll come down the line here. >> Yeah so I think over that time frame two things are likely to happen. One is somebody's going to crack the consumerization of machine learning and AI, such that it really is available to the masses and we can do much more advanced things than we could. We see the industries tend to reach an inflection point and then there's an explosion. No one's quite cracked the code on how to really bring this to everyone, but somebody will. And that could happen in that time frame. And then the other thing that I think that almost has to happen is that the forces for openness, open data, data sharing, open data initiatives things like Block Chain are going to run headlong into data protection, data privacy, customer privacy laws and regulations that have to come down and protect us. Because the industry's not doing it, the government is stepping in and it's going to re-silo a lot of our data. It's going to make it recede and make it less accessible, making data science harder for a lot of the most meaningful types of activities. Patient data for example is already all locked down. We could do so much more with it, but health start ups are really constrained about what they can do. 'Cause they can't access the data. We can't even access our own health care records, right? So I think that's the challenge is we have to have that battle next to be able to go and take the next step. >> Well I see, with the growth of data a lot of it's coming through IOT, internet of things. I think that's a big source. And we're going to see a lot of innovation. A new types of Ubers or Air BnBs. Uber's so 2013 though, right? We're going to see new companies with new ideas, new innovations, they're going to be looking at the ways this data can be leveraged all this big data. Or data coming in from the IOT can be leveraged. You know there's some examples out there. There's a company for example that is outfitting tools, putting sensors in the tools. Industrial sites can therefore track where the tools are at any given time. This is an expensive, time consuming process, constantly loosing tools, trying to locate tools. Assessing whether the tool's being applied to the production line or the right tool is at the right torque and so forth. With the sensors implanted in these tools, it's now possible to be more efficient. And there's going to be innovations like that. Maybe small start up type things or smaller innovations. We're going to see a lot of new ideas and new types of approaches to handling all this data. There's going to be new business ideas. The next Uber, we may be hearing about it a year from now whatever that may be. And that Uber is going to be applying data, probably IOT type data in some, new innovative way. >> Jennifer, final word. >> Yeah so I think with data, you know it's interesting, right, for one thing I think on of the things that's made data more available and just people we open to the idea, has been start ups. But what's interesting about this is a lot of start ups have been acquired. And a lot of people at start ups that got acquired now these people work at bigger corporations. Which was the way it was maybe 10 years ago, data wasn't available and open, companies kept it very proprietary, you had to sign NDAs. It was like within the last 10 years that open source all of that initiatives became much more popular, much more open, a acceptable sort of way to look at data. I think that what I'm kind of interested in seeing is what people do within the corporate environment. Right, 'cause they have resources. They have funding that start ups don't have. And they have backing, right? Presumably if you're acquired you went in at a higher title in the corporate structure whereas if you had started there you probably wouldn't be at that title at that point. So I think you have an opportunity where people who have done innovative things and have proven that they can build really cool stuff, can now be in that corporate environment. I think part of it's going to be whether or not they can really adjust to sort of the corporate, you know the corporate landscape, the politics of it or the bureaucracy. I think every organization has that. Being able to navigate that is a difficult thing in part 'cause it's a human skill set, it's a people skill, it's a soft skill. It's not the same thing as just being able to code something and sell it. So you know it's going to really come down to people. I think if people can figure out for instance, what people want to buy, what people think, in general that's where the money comes from. You know you make money 'cause someone gave you money. So if you can find a way to look at a data or even look at technology and understand what people are doing, aren't doing, what they're happy about, unhappy about, there's always opportunity in collecting the data in that way and being able to leverage that. So you build cooler things, and offer things that haven't been thought of yet. So it's a very interesting time I think with the corporate resources available if you can do that. You know who knows what we'll have in like a year. >> I'll add one. >> Please. >> The majority of companies in the S&P 500 have a market cap that's greater than their revenue. The reason is 'cause they have IP related to data that's of value. But most of those companies, most companies, the vast majority of companies don't have any way to measure the value of that data. There's no GAAP accounting standard. So they don't understand the value contribution of their data in terms of how it helps them monetize. Not the data itself necessarily, but how it contributes to the monetization of the company. And I think that's a big gap. If you don't understand the value of the data that means you don't understand how to refine it, if data is the new oil and how to protect it and so forth and secure it. So that to me is a big gap that needs to get closed before we can actually say we live in a data driven world. >> So you're saying I've got an asset, I don't know if it's worth this or this. And they're missing that great opportunity. >> So devolve to what I know best. >> Great discussion. Really, really enjoyed the, the time as flown by. Joe if you get that augmented reality thing to work on the salary, point it toward that guy not this guy, okay? (everyone laughs) It's much more impressive if you point it over there. But Joe thank you, Dion, Joe and Jennifer and Batman. We appreciate and Bob Hayes, thanks for being with us. >> Thanks you guys. >> Really enjoyed >> Great stuff. >> the conversation. >> And a reminder coming up a the top of the hour, six o'clock Eastern time, IBMgo.com featuring the live keynote which is being set up just about 50 feet from us right now. Nick Silver is one of the headliners there, John Thomas is well, or rather Rob Thomas. John Thomas we had on earlier on The Cube. But a panel discussion as well coming up at six o'clock on IBMgo.com, six to 7:15. Be sure to join that live stream. That's it from The Cube. We certainly appreciate the time. Glad to have you along here in New York. And until the next time, take care. (bright digital music)

>> Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's The Cube! Covering IBM Chief Data Officer Summit, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to The Cube's live coverage of IBM's Chief Data Strategy Summit, I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost Dave Vellante. We have a big panel today, these are our social influencers. Starting at the top, we have Christopher Penn, VP Marketing of Shift Communications, then Tripp Braden, Executive Coach and Growth Strategist at Strategic Performance Partners, Mike Tamir, Chief Data Science Officer at TACT, Bob Hayes, President of Business Over Broadway. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> So we're talking about data as a way to engage customers, a way to engage employees. What business functions would you say stand to benefit the most from using data? >> I'll take a whack at that. I don't know if it's the biggest function, but I think the customer experience and customer success. How do you use data to help predict what customers will do, and how do you then use that information to kind of personalize that experience for them and drive up recommendations, retention, upselling, things like that. >> So it's really the customer experience that you're focusing on? >> Yes, and I just released a study. I found that analytical-leading companies tend to use analytics to understand their customers more than say analytical laggards. So those kind of companies who can actually get value from data, they focus their efforts around improving customer loyalty by just gaining a deeper understanding about their customers. >> Chris, you want to jump in here with- >> I was just going to say, as many of us said, we have three things we really care about as business people, right? We want to save money, save time, or make money. So any function that meets those qualifications, is a functional benefit from data. >> I think there's also another interesting dimension to this, when you start to look at the leadership team in the company, now having the ability to anticipate the future. I mean now, we are no longer just looking at static data. We are now looking at anticipatory capability and seeing around corners, so that the person comes to the team, they're bringing something completely different than the team has had in the past. This whole competency of being able to anticipate the future and then take from that, where you take your organization in the future. >> So follow up on that, Tripp, does data now finally trump gut feel? Remember the HBR article of 10, 15 years ago, can't beat gut feel? Is that, we hit a new era now? >> Well, I think we're moving into an era where we have both. I think it's no longer an either or, we have intuition or we have data. Now we have both. The organizations who can leverage both at the same time and develop that capability and earn the trust of the other members by doing that. I see the Chief Data Officer really being a catalyst for organizational change. >> So Dr. Tamir I wonder if I could ask you a question? Maybe the whole panel, but so we've all followed the big data trend and the meme, AI, deep learning, machine learning, same wine, new bottle, or is there something substantive behind it? >> So certainly our capabilities are growing, our capabilities in machine learning, and I think that's part of why now there's this new branding of AI. AI is not what your mother might have thought AI is. It's not robots and cylons and that sort of thing that are going to be able to think intelligently. They just did intelligence tests on the different, like Siri and Alexa, quote AIs from different companies, and they scored horribly. They scored much worse than my, much worse than my very intelligent seven-year old. And that's not a comment on the deficiencies in Alexa or in Siri. It's a comment on these are not actually artificial intelligences. These are just tools that apply machine learning strategically. >> So you are all thinking about data and how it is going to change the future and one of the things you said, Tripp, is that we can now see the future. Talk to me about some of the most exciting things that you're seeing that companies do that are anticipating what customers want. >> Okay, so for example, in the customer success space, a lot of Sass businesses have a monthly subscription, so they're very worried about customer churn. So companies are now leveraging all the user behavior to understand which customers are likely to leave next month, and if they know that, they can reach out to them with maybe some retention campaigns, or even use that data to find out who's most likely to buy more from you in the next month, and then market to those in effective ways. So don't just do a blast for everybody, focus on particular customers, their needs, and try to service them or market to them in a way that resonates with them that increases retention, upselling, and recommendations. >> So they've already seen certain behaviors that show a customer is maybe not going to re-up? >> Exactly, so you just, you throw this data in a machine learning, right. You find the predictors of your outcome that interest you, and then using that information, you say oh, maybe predictors A, B, and C, are the ones that actually drive loyalty behaviors, then you can use that information to segment your customers and market to them appropriately. It's pretty cool stuff. >> February 18th, 2018. >> Okay. >> So we did a study recently just for fun of when people search for the term "Outlook, out of office." Yeah, and you really only search for that term for one reason, you're going on vacation, and you want to figure out how to turn the feature on. So we did a five-year data poll of people, of the search times for that and then inverted it, so when do people search least for that term. That's when they're in the office, and it's the week of February 18th, 2018, will be that time when people like, yep, I'm at the office, I got to work. And knowing that, prediction and data give us specificity, like yeah, we know the first quarter is busy, we know between memorial Day and Labor Day is not as busy in the B to B world. But as a marketer, we need to put specificity, data and predictive analytics gives us specificity. We know what week to send our email campaigns, what week to turn our ad budgets all the way to full, and so on and so forth. If someone's looking for The Cube, when will they be doing that, you know, going forward? That's the power of this stuff, is that specificity. >> They know what we're going to search for before we search for it. (laughter) >> I'd like to know where I'm going to be next week. Why that date? >> That's the date that people least search for the term, "Outlook, out of office." >> Okay. >> So, they're not looking for that feature, which logically means they're in the office. >> Or they're on vacation. (laughter) Right, I'm just saying. >> That brings up a good point on not just, what you're predicting for interactions right now, but also anticipating the trends. So Bob brought up a good point about figuring out when people are churning. There's a flip side to that, which is how do you get your customers to be more engaged? And now we have really an explosion in reinforcement learning in particular, which is a tool for figuring out, not just how to interact with you right now as a one off, statically. But how do I interact with you over time, this week, next week, the week after that? And using reinforcement learning, you can actually do that. This is the the sort-of technique that they used to beat Alpha-Go or to beat humans with Alpha-Go. Machine-learning algorithms, supervised learning, works well when you get that immediate feedback, but if you're playing a game, you don't get that feedback that you're going to win 300 turns from now, right now. You have to create more advanced value functions and ways of anticipating where things are going, this move, so that you see things are on track for winning in 20, 30, 40 moves, down the road. And it's the same thing when you're dealing with customer engagement. You want to, you can make a decision, I'm going to give this customer a coupon that's going to make them spend 50 cents more today, or you can make decisions algorithmically that are going to give them a 50 cent discount this week, next week, and the week after that, that are going to make them become a coffee drinker for life, or customer for life. >> It's about finding those customers for life. >> IBM uses the term cognitive business. We go to these conferences, everybody talks about digital transformation. At the end of the day it's all about how you use data. So my question is, if you think about the bell curve of organizations that you work with, how do they, what's the shape of that curve, part one. And then part two is, where do you see IBM on that curve? >> Well I think a lot of my clients make a living predicting the future, they're insurance companies and financial services. That's where the CDO currently resides and they get a lot of benefit. But one of things we're all talking about, but talking around, is that human element. So now, how do we take the human element and incorporate this into the structure of how we make our decisions? And how do we take this information, and how do we learn to trust that? The one thing I hear from most of the executives I talk to, when they talk about how data is being used in their organizations is the lack of trust. Now, when you have that, and you start to look at the trends that we're dealing with, and we call them data points verses calling them people, now you have a problem, because people become very, almost analytically challenged, right? So how do we get people to start saying, okay, let's look at this from the point of view of, it's not an either or solution in the world we live in today. Cognitive organizations are not going to happen tomorrow morning, even the most progressive organizations are probably five years away from really deploying them completely. But the organizations who take a little bit of an edge, so five, ten percent edge out of there, they now have a really, a different advantage in their markets. And that's what we're talking about, hyper-critical thinking skills. I mean, when you start to say, how do I think like Warren Buffet, how do I start to look and make these kinds of decisions analytically? How do I recreate an artificial intelligence when machine-learning practice, and program that's going to provide that solution for people. And that's where I think organizations that are forward-leaning now are looking and saying, how do I get my people to use these capabilities and ultimately trust the data that they're told. >> So I forget who said it, but it was early on in the big data movement, somebody said that we're further away from a single version of the truth than ever, and it's just going to get worse. So as a data scientist, what say you? >> I'm not familiar with the truth quote, but I think it's very relevant, well very relevant to where we are today. There's almost an arms race of, you hear all the time about automating, putting out fake news, putting out misinformation, and how that can be done using all the technology that we have at our disposal for disbursing that information. The only way that that's going to get solved is also with algorithmic solutions with creating algorithms that are going to be able to detect, is this news, is this something that is trying to attack my emotions and convince me just based on fear, or is this an article that's trying to present actual facts to me and you can do that with machine-learning algorithms. Now we have the technology to do that, algorithmically. >> Better algos than like and share. >> From a technological perspective, to your question about where IBM is, IBM has a ton of stuff that I call AI as a service, essentially where if you're a developer on Bluemix, for example, you can plug in to the different components of Watson at literally pennies per usage, to say I want to do sentiment analysis, I want to do tone analysis, I want personality insights, about this piece, who wrote this piece of content. And to Dr. Tamir's point, this is stuff that, we need these tools to do things like, fingerprint this piece of text. Did the supposed author actually write this? You can tell that, so of all the four magi, we call it, the Microsoft, Amazon, Google, IBM, getting on board, and adding that five or ten percent edge that Tripp was talking about, is easiest with IBM Bluemix. >> Great. >> Well, one of the other parts of this is you start to talk about what we're doing and you start to look at the players that are doing this. They are all organizations that I would not call classical technology organizations. They were 10 years ago, look at a Microsoft. But you look at the leadership of Microsoft today, and they're much more about figuring out what the formula is for success for business, and that's the other place I think we're seeing a transformation occurring, and the early adopters, is they have gone through the first generation, and the pain, you know, of having to have these kinds of things, and now they're moving to that second generation, where they're looking for the gain. And they're looking for people who can bring them capability and have the conversation, and discuss them in ways that they can see the landscape. I mean part of this is if you get caught in the bits and bites, you miss the landscape that you should be seeing in the market, and that's why I think there's a tremendous opportunity for us to really look at multiple markets of the same data. I mean, imagine looking and here's what I see, everyone in this group would have a different opinion in what they're seeing, but now we have the ability to see it five different ways and share that with our executive team and what we're seeing, so we can make better decisions. >> I wonder if we could have a frank conversation, an honest conversation about the data and the data ownership. You heard IBM this morning, saying hey we're going to protect your data, but I'd love you guys, as independents to weigh in. You got this data, you guys are involved with your clients, building models, the data trains the model. I got to believe that that model gets used at a lot of different places, within an industry, like insurance or across retail, whatever it is. So I'm afraid that my data is, my IP is going to seep across the industry. Should I not be worried about that? I wonder if you guys could weigh in. >> Well if you work with a particular vendor, sometimes vendors have a stipulation that we will not share your models with other clients, so you just got to stick to that. But in terms of science, I mean you build a model, right? You want to generalize that to other businesses. >> Right! >> (drowned out by others talking) So maybe if you could work somehow with your existing clients, say here, this is what we want to do, we just want to elevate the waters for everybody, right? So everybody wins when all boats rise, right? So if you can kind of convince your clients that we just want to help the world be better, and function better, make employees happier, customers happier, let's take that approach and just use models in a, that may be generalized to other situations and use them. If if you don't, then you just don't. >> Right, that's your choice. >> It's a choice, it's a choice you have to make. >> As long as you're transparent about it. >> I'm not super worried, I mean, you, Dave, Tripp, and I are all dressed similarly, right? We have the model of shirt and tie so, if I put on your clothes, we wouldn't, but if I were to put on your clothes, it would not be, even though it's the same model, it's just not going to be the same outcome. It's going to look really bad, right, so. Yes, companies can share the models and the general flows and stuff, but there's so much, if a company's doing machine learning well, there's so much feature engineering that's unique to that company that trying to apply that somewhere else, is just going to blow up. >> Yeah, but we could switch ties, like Tripp has got a really cool tie, I'd be using that tie on July 4th. >> This is turning into a different kind of panel (laughter) Chris, Tripp, Mike, and Bob, thanks so much for joining us. This has been a really fun and interesting panel. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Thanks you guys. >> We will have more from the IBM Summit in Boston just after this. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, DC, it's theCube, covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017, brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner ecosystem. >> Welcome inside the convention center here in Washington, DC. You're looking at many of the attendees of the AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. We're coming to you live from our nation's capital. Several thousand people on hand here for this three-day event, we're here for two days. John Walls, along with John Furrier. John, good to see you again, sir. >> Sir, thank you. >> We're joined by Jay Littlepage, who is the VP of Infrastructure and Operations at Digital Globe, and Jay, thank you for being with us at theCube. >> My pleasure. >> John W: Good to have you. First off, your company, high-resolution, earth imagery satellite stuff. Out-of-this world business. >> Yep. >> Right, tell our viewers a little bit about what you do, I mean, the magnitude of, obviously, the environmental implications of that or defense, safety security, all those realms. >> Okay, well, stop me when I've said too much because I get pretty excited about this. We work for a very cool company. We've been taking earth imagery since 1999, when our first satellite went up in the sky. And, as we've increased our capabilities with our constellation, our latest satellite went up last November. We're flying, basically, a giant camera that we can fly like a drone. So, and when I say giant camera, it's about the size of a school bus, and the lens is about the size of the front of the school bus, and we can take imagery from 700 miles up in space and resolve a pixel about the size of a laptop. So, that gives us an incredible amount of capability, and the flying like a drone, besides just being really cool and geeky, we can sling the lens from basically Kansas City to here in Washington in 15 seconds and take a shot. And so, when world events happen, when an earthquake happens, you know, they're generally not scheduled events, we don't have to have the satellite right above the point where there's something going on on the ground, we can take a shot from an angle of 1,000 miles away, and with compute power and good algorithms, we can basically resolve the picture of the earth, and it looks like we're right overhead, and we're getting imagery out immediately to first responders, to governmental agencies so they can respond very quickly to a disaster happening to save lives. >> So, obviously, the ramifications are endless, almost, right? >> Yes. >> All that data, I mean, you can't even imagine the amount, talk about storage. So, that's certainly a complexity, and then, they are making it useful too all these different sectors. Without getting too simple, how do you manage that? >> Well, you know, it's a big trade-off because, ideally, if storage was free, all of our imagery in its highest consumable form would be available all the time to everybody. Each high-resolution image might be 35 gig by itself. So, you think of that long of flying a constellation, we've got 100 petabytes of imagery. That's too much, it's too expensive to have online all of the time. And so, we have to balance what's going to be relevant and useful to people versus cost. You know, a lot of the imagery goes through cycle where it's interesting until it's not, and it starts to age off. The thing about the planet, though, is we never know what's going to happen, and when something that aged off is going to be relevant again. And so, the balance for my team is really making sure we're hitting the sweet spot on there. The imagery that is relevant is readily accessible, and the imagery that's not is, in its cheapest form, fact or possible, which for us, is compressed, and it's in some sort of archival storage, which for us, now that we've used the Snowmobile, is Glacier. >> Jay, I want to ask to give your thoughts. I want you to talk about DigitalGlobe, before that, some context. This weekend, I was hanging out with my friends in Santa Cruz and kids were surfing. He's a big drone guy, he used to work for GoPro, and she used to buy the drones and, hey, how's it going with the drones. It got kind of boring, here's a great photo I created, but after a while, it just became like Google Earth, and it got boring. Kind of pointed out that he wanted more, and we got virtual reality, augmented reality, experience is coming to users. That puts imagery, place imagery, the globe, pictures, places and things is what you guys do. So, that's not going away any time soon. So, talk about your business, what you guys do, some of the things that you do, your business model, how that's changing, and how Amazon, here in the public sector, is changing that. >> Well, that's a fantastic questions, and our business is changing pretty rapidly. We have all that imagery, and it's beautiful imagery, but increasingly, there's so much of it, and so many of the use cases aren't about human eyeballs staring at pixels. They're about algorithms extracting information from the pixels. And, increasingly, from either the breadth of pixels, instead of just looking at a small area, you can look around it and see what's happening around it and use that as signal information, or you can go deep into an archive and see the same location on the planet over and over over years and see the changes that had happened in terms of time frame. So, increasingly, our market is about extracting information and extracting insights from the imagery more so than it is the imagery itself. And so that's driving an analytics business for us, and it's also driving a services business for us, which is particularly important in the public sector to actually use that for different purposes. >> You can imagine the creativity involved and developers out there watching or even thinking about using satellite imagery in conflux with other data. Remember, they're in the Web 2.0 craze earlier in the last decade. You saw mashups of API with Google Max. Oh yeah, pull a little pin, and then the mobile came. But now, you're seeing mashups go on with other data. And I've heard stats at Uber, for instance, remaps New York City every five days with all that GPS data of the cars, which are basically sensors. So, you can almost imagine the alchemy, the convergence of data. This is exciting for you, I can imagine. Won't you share with us, anecdotally or statistically what you're seeing, how this is playing out? >> Well, yes, some of our biggest commercial customers of our products now are location-based services. So, Uber's using our imagery because the size of the aperture of our lens means we have great resolution. And so, they've been consuming that and consuming our machine learning algorithms to basically understand where traffic is and where people are so that they can refine, on an ongoing basis, where the best pick-up and drop-off locations are. That really drives their business. Facebook's using the imagery to basically help build out the Internet. You know, they want to move into places on the planet where Internet doesn't exist. Well, in order to really understand that, they need to understand where to build, how to build, how many people are there, and you can actually extract all that from imagery by going in in detail and mapping roofs' shapes and roofs' sizes, and, from there, extracting pretty accurate estimates of how many people live in a particular area, and that's driving their project, which is ultimately going to drive access for... >> Intelligence in software, we look at imagery. I mean, we here at Amazon, recognition's their big product for facial recognition, among other pictures. But this is what's getting at, this notion of actually extracting that data. >> Well, you think about it. You know, once the data is available, once our imagery is available, then the sky's the limit. You know, we have a certain set of algorithms that we apply to help different industries, you know, to look at rooftops, to look at water extractions. After a hurricane, we can actually see how the coverage has changed. But, you look at a Facebook, and they're applying their own algorithms. We don't force our algorithms to be used. We provide the information, we try to provide the data. Companies can bring their own algorithms, and then, it's all about what can you learn, and then, what can you do about it, and it's amazing. >> So, here's the question. With the whole polyglot conversation, multiple languages that people speak that's translated into the tech industry, and interdisciplinary forces are in play: Data science, coding, cognitive, machine learning. So, the question is, for you, is that, okay, as this stuff comes together, do you speak DevOps? It's kind of a word, and we hear people say, is that in Russian or is that like English? DevOps is a cloud language mindset. And so, that brings up the question of, are you guys friendly to developers, and because people want to have microservices, I'm from a developer, I'm like, hey, I want those maps. How do I get them, can I buy it as a service, are they loaded on Amazon, how to I gauge with DataGlobe, as a developer or a company? >> Well, you think about what you just said and the customers I just talked about. They're not geospatial customers. You know, they're not staffed with people that are PhDs in extracting information. They're developers that are working for high-tech companies that have a problem that want to solve. >> There are already mobile apps or doing some cool database working in here. >> So, we're providing the raw imagery and the algorithms to very tried and true systems where people can plug into work benches and build artificial intelligence without necessarily being experts in that. And, as a case in point, my team is an IT team. You know, we've got a part of the organization that is all staffed with PhDs. They're the ones that are driving our global... >> John W: PhD is a service. (laughter) >> Well, kind of. I mean, if you think about it, they're driving the leading edge, for these solutions to our customers. But, I've got an IT team, and I've got this problem with all this data that we talked about earlier. Well, how am I actually going to manage that? I'm going to be pulling in all sorts of different sources of data, and I'm going to be applying machine learning using IT guys that aren't PhDs to actually do that, and I'm not going to send them to graduate school. They're going to be using standard APIs, and they're going to be applying fairly generic algorithms, and... >> So, is that your model, is it just API, is there other... >> I think the real key is the API makes it accessible, but a machine learning algorithm is only as good as its training. So, the more it's used, the more it refines itself, the better our algorithm gets. And so, that is going to be the type of thing that the IT developer, the infrastructure engineer of the future becomes, and I've already, basically, in the last couple of years, as we started this journey at AWS, 20% of my staff now, same size staff, but they're software developers now. >> So, I'll take this to the government side. We talked a lot about commercial use. But at the government side, I'm thinking about FEMA, disaster response, maybe a core of engineers, you know, bridge construction, road construction, coastline management. Are all those kind of applications that we see on the dot gov side? >> There are all things that you see that can be done on the dot gov side, but we're doing them all in the commercial environment. The USC's region for AWS, and I think that's actually a really important distinction, and it's something that I think more and more of the government agencies are starting to see. We do a lot of work for one particular government agency and have for years. But 99 point something percent of our imagery is commercial unclassified, and it's available for the purposes that our customers use it for, but they're also available for all those other customers I've talked about. And more and more of what we do, we are doing on the completely open but secure commercial environment because it's ubiquitous for our customers. Not all of our customers do that type of work. They don't need to comply with those rigid standards. It's generally where all AWS products that are released are released to, with the other environments lagging, and they probably don't want me saying that on TV, but I just did. And it's cheaper, you know, we're a commercial company that does public sector work. We have to make a profit, and the best way to do that is to put your environment in a place where if you're going to repeat an operation, like pulling an image of Glacier and build it into something that is consumable by either a human or an algorithm and put it back. If you're going to do something like that a million times, you want to do it really inexpensively. And so, that's where... (crosstalking) >> Lower prices, make things fast, that's Jeff Hayes' ethos, shipping products, that these books in the old days. Now, they're shipping code and making lower-latency systems. So, you guys are a big customer. What are the big implementation features that you have with AWS, and then, the second part of the question is, are you worried about locking. At some point, you're so big, the hours are going to be so massive, you're going to be paying so much cash, should you build your own, that's the big debate. Do you go private cloud, do you stay in the public? Thoughts on those two options? >> Well, we have both. Right now, we're running a 15-year-old system, which is where we create the imagery that comes off the satellites, and it goes into a tape archive. Last year, Reinvent... >> John F: Tape's supposed to be dead! >> Tape will die someday! It's going to die really soon, but, at the Reinvent Conference last year, AWS rolled out a semi truck. Well, the real semi truck was in our parking lot getting loaded with all those tapes, and it's sad... >> John F: Did you actually use the semi? >> We were the first customer ever, I believe, of the Snowmobile. And so, it takes a lot of time and effort to move 12,000 LTO 5 tapes loaded onto a semi and send it off. You know, that represents every image ever taken by DG in the history of our company, and it's now in AWS. So, to your second part of your question, we're pretty committed now. >> John F: Are you okay with that? >> Well, we're okay with that for a couple of reasons. One is, I'm not constraining the business. AWS is cheaper. It will be even cheaper for us as we learn how to pull all the levers and turn all the dials in this environment. But, you know, you think about that, we ran a particular job last year for a customer that consumes 750,000 compute hours in 22 days. We couldn't have done that in our data center. We would have said no. And so, I would... >> I know, I can't do, you can't do it. >> We can't do it! Or, we can do it, come back, the answer will be here in six months. So, time is of the essence in situations like that, so we're comfortable with it for our business. We're also comfortable with it because, increasingly, that's where our customers already are. We are creating something in our current environment and shipping it to Amazon anyway. >> We're going to start a movie about you, with Jim Carrey, Yes Man. (laughter) You're going to say yes to everything now with Amazon. Okay, but this is a good point. Joking aside, this is interesting because we have this debate all the time, when is the cloud prohibitive. In this case, your business model, based on that fact that variables spend that you turn up your Compute is based upon cadence of the business. >> That's exactly right. You know, the thing that's really changed for the business with this model is historically, IT has been a call center, and moving into Amazon, I manage our storage, and I pay for our storage because it's a shared asset. It's something that is for the common good. The business units and different product managers in our business now have the dial for what they spend on the Compute and everything else. So, if they want to go to market really rapidly, they can. If they want to spin it up rapidly, they can. If they want to turn it down, they can. And it's not a fixed investment. So, it allows the business philosophy that we've never had before. >> Jay, I know we're getting tight on time, but I do want to ask you one question, and I did not know that you were the first Snowmobile customers, so, that's good trivia to have on theCube and great to have you. So, while we got you here, being the first customer of AWS Snowmobile when they rolled out at Amazon Reinvent, we covered on SiliconAngle. Why did you jump on that and how was your experience been, share some color onto that whole process. >> Okay, it's been an iterative learning process for both us and for Amazon. We were sitting on all this imagery. We knew we wanted to get in AWS. We started using the Snowballs almost a year and a half ago. But moving 100 petabytes, 80 terabytes at a time, it's like using a spoon to move a haystack. So, when Amazon approached us, knowing the challenge we had about moving it all at once, I initially thought they were kidding, and I realized it was Amazon, they don't kid about things like this, and so we jumped on pretty early and worked with them on this. >> John F: So, you've got blown away like, what? >> Just like. >> What's the catch? >> Really, a truck, really? Yeah, but really. So, it's as secure as it could possibly be. We're taking out the Internet and all the different variables in that, including a lot of cost in bandwidth and strengths, and basically parking and next to our data, and, you know, it's basically a big NFS file system, and we loaded data onto it, the constraint for us being, basically that tape library with 10,000 miles of movement on the tape pads. We had to balance between loading the Snowmobile and basically responding to our regular customers. You know, we pulled 4 million images a year off that tape library. And so, loading every single image we've ever created onto the Snowmobile at the same time was a technical challenge on our side more so than Amazon's side. So, we had to find that sweet spot and then just let it run. >> John F: Now, it's operational. >> So, the Snowmobile is gone. AWS has got it. They're adjusting it right now into the West Region, and we're looking forward to being able to just go wild with that data. >> We got Snowmobiles, we got semis, we have satellites, we have it all, right? >> We have it all, yeah. >> It's massive, obviously, but impressed with what you're doing with this. So, congratulations on that front, and thank you again for being with us. >> My pleasure, thanks for having me. >> You bet, we continue our coverage here from Washington, DC, live on theCube. SiliconAngle TV continues right after this. (theCube jingle)