>>Hello and welcome back to the live coverage of the Cube here. Live in Detroit, Michigan for Cub Con, our seventh year covering all seven years. The cube has been here. M John Fur, host of the Cube, co-founder of the Cube. I'm here with Lisa Mart, my co-host, and our new host, Savannah Peterson. Great to see you guys. We're wrapping up day one of three days of coverage, and our guest analyst is Sario Wall, who's the cube analyst who's gonna give us his report. He's been out all day, ear to the ground in the sessions, peeking in, sneaking in, crashing him, getting all the data. Great to see you, Sarvi. Lisa Savannah, let's wrap this puppy up. >>I am so excited to be here. My first coupon with the cube and being here with you and Lisa has just been a treat. I can't wait to hear what you have to say in on the report side. And I mean, I have just been reflecting, it was last year's coupon that brought me to you, so I feel so lucky. So much can change in a year, folks. You never know where you're be. Wherever you're sitting today, you could be living your dreams in just a few >>Months. Lisa, so much has changed. I mean, just look at the past this year. Events we're back in person. Yeah. Yep. This is a big team here. They're still wearing masks, although we can take 'em off with a cube. But mask requirement. Tech has changed. Conversations are upleveling, skill gaps still there. So much has changed. >>So much has changed. There's so much evolution and so much innovation that we've also seen. You know, we started out the keynote this morning, standing room. Only thousands of people are here. Even though there's a mass requirement, the community that is CNCF Co Con is stronger than I, stronger than I saw it last year. This is only my second co con. But the collaboration, what they've done, their devotion to the maintainers, their devotion to really finding mentors for mentees was really a strong message this morning. And we heard a >>Lot of that today. And it's going beyond Kubernetes, even though it's called co con. I also call it cloud native con, which I think we'll probably end up being the name because at the end of day, the cloud native scaling, you're starting to see the pressure points. You're start to see where things are breaking, where automation's coming in, breaking in a good way. And we're gonna break it all down Again. So much going on again, I've overs gonna be in charge. Digital is transformation. If you take it to its conclusion, then you will see that the developers are running the business. It isn't a department, it's not serving the business, it is the business. If that's the case, everything has to change. And we're, we're happy to have Sarib here with us Cube analysts on the badge. I saw that with the press pass. Well, >>Thank you. Thanks for getting me that badge. So I'm here with you guys and >>Well, you got a rapport. Let's get into it. You, I >>Know. Let's hear what you gotta say. I'm excited. >>Yeah. Went around, actually attend some sessions and, and with the analysts were sitting in, in the media slash press, and I spoke to some people at their booth and the, there are a few, few patterns, you know, which are, some are the exaggeration of existing patterns or some are kind of new patterns emerging. So things are getting complex in open source. The lawn more projects, right. They have, the CNCF has graduated some projects even after graduation, they're, they're exploring, right? Kubernetes is one of those projects which has graduated. And on that front, just a side note, the new projects where, which are entering the cncf, they're the, we, we gotta see that process and the three stages and all that stuff. I tweeted all day long, if you wanna know what it is, you can look at my tweets. But when I will look, actually write right on that actually after, after the show ends, what, what I saw there, these new projects need to be curated properly. >>I think they need to be weed. There's a lot of noise in these projects. There's a lot of overlap. So the, the work is cut out for CNCF folks, by the way. They're sort of managerial committee or whatever you call that. The, the people who are leading it, they're try, I think they're doing their best and they're doing a good job of that. And another thing actually, I really liked in the morning's keynote was that lot of women on the stage and minorities represented. I loved it, to be honest with you. So believe me, I'm a minority even though I'm Indian, but from India, I'm a minority. So people who have Punjab either know that I'm a minority, so I, I understand their pain and how hard it is to, to break through the ceiling and all that. So I love that part as well. Yeah, the >>Activity is clear. Yeah. From day one. It's in the, it's in the dna. I mean, they'll reject anything that the opposite >>Representation too. I mean, it's not just that everyone's invited, it's they're celebrated and that's a very big difference. Yeah. It's, you see conferences offer discounts for women for tickets or minorities, but you don't necessarily see them put them running where their mouth is actually recruit the right women to be on stage. Right. Something you know a little bit about John >>Diversity brings better outcomes, better product perspectives. The product is better with all the perspectives involved. Percent, it might go a little slower, maybe a little debates, but it's all good. I mean, it's, to me, the better product comes when everyone's in. >>I hope you didn't just imply that women would make society. So >>I think John men, like slower means a slower, >>More diversity, more debate, >>The worst. Bringing the diversity into picture >>Wine. That's, that's how good groups, which is, which is >>Great. I mean, yeah, yeah, >>Yeah, yeah. I, I take that mulligan back and say, hey, you knows >>That's >>Just, it's gonna go so much faster and better and cheaper, but that not diversity. Absolutely. >>Yes. Well, you make better products faster because you have a variety >>Of perspectives. The bigger the group, there's more debate. More debate is key. But the key to success is aligning and committing. Absolutely. Once you have that, and that's what open sources has been about for. Oh God, yeah. Generations >>Has been a huge theme in the >>Show generations. All right, so, so, >>So you have to add another, like another important, so observation if you will, is that the security is, is paramount right. Requirement, especially for open source. There was a stat which was presented in the morning that 60% of the projects in under CNCF have more vulnerabilities today than they had last year. So that was, That's shocking actually. It's a big jump. It's a big jump. Like big jump means jump, jump means like it can be from from 40 to 60 or or 50 or 60. But still that percentage is high. What, what that means is that lot more people are contributing. It's very sort of di carmic or ironic that we say like, Oh this project has 10,000 contributors. Is that a good thing? Right. We do. Do we know the quality of that, where they're coming from? Are there any back doors being, you know, open there? How stringent is the process of rolling those things, which are being checked in, into production? You know, who is doing that? I've >>Wondered about that. Yeah. The quantity, quality, efficacy game. Yes. And what a balance that must be for someone like CNCF putting in the structure to try and >>That's >>Hard. Curate and regulate and, and you know, provide some bumpers on the bowling lane, so to speak, of, of all of these projects. Yeah. >>Yeah. We thought if anybody thought that the innovation coming from, or the number of services coming from AWS or Google Cloud or likes of them is overwhelming, look at open source, it's even more >>Overwhelming. What's your take on the supply chain discussion? More code more happening. What are you hearing there? >>The supply chain from the software? Yeah. >>Supply chain software, supply chain security pays. Are people talking about that? What are you >>Seeing? Yeah, actually people are talking about that. The creation, the curation, not creation. Curation of suppliers of software I think is best done in the cloud. Marketplaces Ive call biased or what, you know, but curation of open source is hard. It's hard to know which project to pick. It's hard to know which project will pan out. Many of the good projects don't see the day light of the day, but some decent ones like it becomes >>A marketing problem. Exactly. The more you have out there. Exactly. The more you gotta get above the noise. Exactly. And the noise echo that. And you got, you got GitHub stars, you got contributors, you have vanity metrics now coming in to this that are influencing what's real. But sometimes the best project could have smaller groups. >>Yeah, exactly. And another controversial thing a little bit I will say that is that there's a economics of the practitioner, right? I usually talk about that and economics of the, the enterprise, right? So practitioners in our world, in software world especially right in systems world, practitioners are changing jobs every two to three years. And number of developers doubles every three years. That's the stat I've seen from Uncle Bob. He's authority on that software side of things. Wow. So that means there's a lot more new entrance that means a lot of churn. So who is watching out for the enterprise enterprises economics, You know, like are we creating stable enterprises? How stable are our operations? On a side note to that, most of us see the software as like one band, which is not true. When we talk about all these roles and personas, somebody's writing software for, for core layer, which is the infrastructure part. Somebody's writing business applications, somebody's writing, you know, systems of bracket, some somebody's writing systems of differentiation. We talk about those things. We need to distinguish between those and have principle based technology consumption, which I usually write about in our Oh, >>So bottom line in Europe about it, in your opinion. Yeah. What's the top story here at coupon? >>Top story is >>Headline. Yeah, >>The, the headline. Okay. The open source cannot be ignored. That's a headline. >>And what should people be paying attention to if there's a trend coming out? See any kind of trends coming out or any kind of signal, What, what do you see that people should pay attention to here? The put top >>Two, three things. The signal is that, that if you are a big shop, like you'd need to assess your like capacity to absorb open source. You need to be certain size to absorb the open source. If you are below that threshold, I mean we can talk about that at some other time. Like what is that threshold? I will suggest you to go with the managed services from somebody, whoever is providing those managed services around open source. So manage es, right? So from, take it from aws, Google Cloud or Azure or IBM or anybody, right? So use open source as managed offering rather than doing it yourself. Because doing it yourself is a lot more heavy lifting. >>I I, >>There's so many thoughts coming, right? >>Mind it's, >>So I gotta ask you, what's your rapport? You have some swag, What's the swag look >>Like to you? I do. Just as serious of a report as you do on the to floor, but I do, so you know, I come from a marketing background and as I, I know that Lisa does as well. And one of the things that I think about that we touched on in this is, is you know, canceling the noise or standing out from the noise and, and on a show floor, that's actually a huge challenge for these startups, especially when you're up against a rancher or companies or a Cisco with a very large budget. And let's say you've only got a couple grand for an activation here. Like most of my clients, that's how I ended up in the CU County ecosystem, was here with the A client before. So there actually was a booth over there and I, they didn't quite catch me enough, but they had noise canceling headphones. >>So if you just wanted to take a minute on the show floor and just not hear anything, which I thought was a little bit clever, but gonna take you through some of my favorite swag from today and to all the vendors, you know, this is why you should really put some thought into your swag. You never know when you're gonna end up on the cube. So since most swag is injection molded plastic that's gonna end up in the landfill, I really appreciate that garden has given all of us a potable plant. And even the packaging is plantable, which is very exciting. So most sustainable swag goes to garden. Well done >>Rep replicated, I believe is their name. They do a really good job every year. They had some very funny pins that say a word that, I'm not gonna say live on television, but they have created, they brought two things for us, yet it's replicated little etch sketch for your inner child, which is very nice. And given that we are in Detroit, we are in Motor City, we are in the home of Ford. We had Ford on the show. I love that they have done the custom K eight s key chains in the blue oval logo. Like >>Fords right behind us by the way, and are on you >>Interviewed, we had 'em on earlier GitLab taking it one level more personal and actually giving out digital portraits today. Nice. Cool. Which is quite fun. Get lap house multiple booths here. They actually IPOed while they were on the show floor at CubeCon 2021, which is fun to see that whole gang again. And then last but not least, really embracing the ship wheel logo of a Kubernetes is the robusta accrue that is giving out bucket hats. And if you check out my Twitter at sabba Savvy, you can see me holding the ship wheel that they're letting everyone pose with. So we are all in on Kubernetes. That cove gone 2022, that's for sure. Yeah. >>And this is something, day one guys, we've got three. >>I wanna get one of those >>Hats. We we need to, we need a group photo >>By the end of Friday we will have a beverage and hats on to sign off. That's, that's my word. If I can convince John, >>Don, what's your takeaway? You guys did a great kind of kickoff about last week or so about what you were excited about, what your thoughts were going to be. We're only on day one, There's been thousands of people here, we've had great conversations with contributors, the community. What's your take on day one? What's your, what's your tagline? >>Well, Savannah and I had at we up, we, we were talking about what we might see and I think we, we were right. I think we had it right. There's gonna be a lot more people than there were last year. Okay, check. That's definitely true. We're in >>Person, which >>Is refreshing. I was very surprised about the mask mandate that kind of caught me up guard. I was major. Yeah. Cause I've been comfortable without the mask. I'm not a mask person, but I had to wear it and I was like, ah, mask. But I understand I support that. But whatever. It's >>Corporate travel policy. So you know, that's what it is. >>And then, you know, they, I thought that they did an okay job with the gates, but they wasn't slow like last time. But on the content side, definitely Kubernetes security, top line headline, Kubernetes at scale security, that's, that's to me the bumper sticker top things to pay attention to the supply chain and the role of docker and the web assembly was a surprise. You're starting to see containers ecosystem coming back to, I won't say tension growth in the functionality of containers cuz they have to solve the security problem in the container images. Okay, you got scanning technology so it's a little bit in the weeds, but there's a huge movement going on to fix that problem to scale it so it's not a problem area contain. And then Dr sent a great job with productivity interviews. Scott Johnston over a hundred million in revenue so far. That's my number. They have not publicly said that. That's what I'm reporting from sources extremely well financially. And they, and they love their business model. They make productivity for developers. That's a scoop. That's new >>Information. That's a nice scoop we just dropped there on the co casually. >>You're watching that. Pay attention to that. But that, that's proof. But guess what, Red Hat's got developers too. Yes. Other people have to, So developers gonna go where it's the best. Yeah. Developers are voting with their code, they're voting with their feet. You will see the winners with the developers and that's what we've talked about. >>Well and the companies are catering to the developers. Savannah and I had a great conversation with Ford. Yeah. You saw, you showed their fantastic swag was an E for Ev right behind us. They were talking about the, all the cultural changes that they've really focused on to cater towards the developers. The developers becoming the influencers as you say. But to see a company that is as, as historied as Ford Motor Company and what they're doing to attract and retain developer talent was impressive. And honestly that surprised me. Yeah. >>And their head of deb relations has been working for, for, for 29 years. Which I mean first of all, most companies on the show floor haven't been around for 29 years. Right. But what I love is when you put community first, you get employees to stick around. And I think community is one of the biggest themes here at Cuco. >>Great. My, my favorite story that surprised me and was cool was the Red Hat Lockheed Martin interview where they had edge deployments with micro edge, >>Micro shift, >>Micro >>Shift, new projects under, there's, there are three new projects under, >>Under that was so, so cool because it was an edge story in deployment for the military where lives are on the line, they actually had it working. That is a real world example of Kubernetes and tech orchestrating to deploy the industrial edge. And I think that's proof in my mind that Kubernetes and this ecosystem is gonna move faster through this next wave of growth. Because once things start clicking, you get hybrid on premise to super cloud and edge. That was, that was my favorite cause it was real. That was real >>Story that it can make is literally life and death on the battlefield. Yeah, that was amazing. With what they're doing and what >>They're talking check out the Lockheed Martin Red Hat edge story on Silicon Angle and then a press release all pillar. >>Yeah. Another actually it's impressive, which we knew this which is happening, but I didn't know that it was happening at this scale is the finops. The finops is, I saw your is a discipline which most companies are adopting bigger companies, which are spending like hundreds of millions dollars in cloud average. Si a team size of finops for finops is seven people. And average number of tools is I think 3.5 or around 3.7 or something like that. Average number of tools they use to control the cost. So finops is a very generic term for years. It's not financial operations, it's the financial operations for the cloud cost, you know, containing the cloud costs. So that's a finops that is a very emerging sort of discipline >>To keep an eye on. And well, not only is that important, I talked to, well one of the principles over there, it's growing and they have real big players in that foundation. Their, their events are highly attended. It's super important. It's just, it's the cost side of cloud. And, and of course, you know, everyone wants to know what's going on. No one wants to leave there. Their Amazon on Yeah, you wanna leave the lights on the cloud, as we always say, you never know what the bill's gonna look like. >>The cloud is gonna reach $3 billion in next few years. So we might as well control the cost there. Yeah, >>It was, it was funny to get the reaction I found, I don't know if I was, how I react, I dunno how I felt. But we, we did introduce Super Cloud to a couple of guests and a, there were a couple reactions, a couple drawn. There was a couple, right. There was a couple, couple reactions. And what I love about the super cloud is that some people are like, oh, cringing. And some people are like, yeah, go. So it's a, it's a solid debate. It is solid. I saw more in the segments that I did with you together. People leaning in. Yeah. Super fun. We had a couple sum up, we had a couple, we had a couple cringes, I'll say their names, but I'll go back and make sure I, >>I think people >>Get 'em later. I think people, >>I think people cringe on the, on the term not on the idea. Yeah. You know, so the whole idea is that we are building top of the cloud >>And then so I mean you're gonna like this, I did successfully introduce here on the cube, a new term called architectural list. He did? That's right. Okay. And I wanna thank Charles Fitzgerald for that cuz he called super cloud architectural list. And that's exactly the point of super cloud. If you have a great coding environment, you shouldn't have to do an architecture to do. You should code and let the architecture of the Super cloud make it happen. And of course Brian Gracely, who will be on tomorrow at his cloud cast said Super Cloud enables super services. Super Cloud enables what Super services, super service. The microservices underneath the covers have to be different. High performing, automated. So again, the debate and Susan, the goal is to keep it open. And that's our, that's our goal. But we had a lot of fun with that. It was fun to poke the bear a little bit. So >>What is interesting to see just how people respond to it too, with you throwing it out there so consistently, >>You wanna poke the bear, get a conversation going, you know, let let it go. We'll see, it's been positive so far. >>There, there I had a discussion outside somebody who is from Ford but not attending this conference and they have been there for a while. I, I just some moment hit like me, like I said, people, okay, technologists are horizontal, the codes are horizontal. They will go from four to GM to Chrysler to Bank of America to, you know, GE whatever, you know, like cross vertical within vertical different vendors. So, but the culture of a company is local, right? Right. Ford has been building cars for forever. They sort of democratize it. They commercialize it, right? But they have some intense culture. It's hard to change those cultures. And how do we bring in the new thinking? What is, what approach that should be? Is it a sandbox approach for like putting new sensors on the car? They have to compete with te likes our Tesla, right? Yeah. But they cannot, if they are afraid of deluding their existing market or they're afraid of failure there, right? So it's very >>Tricky. Great stuff. Sorry. Great to have you on as our cube analyst breaking down the stories. We'll document that, that we'll roll out a post on it. Lisa Savannah, let's wrap up the show for day one. We got day two and three. We'll start with you. What's your summary? Quick bumper sticker. What's today's show all about? >>I'm a community first gal and this entire experience is about community and it's really nice to see the community come together, celebrate that, share ideas, and to have our community together on stage. >>Yeah. To me, to me it was all real. It's happening. Kubernetes cloud native at scale, it's happening, it's real. And we see proof points and we're gonna have faster time to value. It's gonna accelerate faster from here. >>The proof points, the impact is real. And we saw that in some amazing stories. And this is just a one of the cubes >>Coverage. Ib final word on this segment was well >>Said Lisa. Yeah, I, I think I, I would repeat what I said. I got eight, nine years back at a rack space conference. Open source is amazing for one biggest reason. It gives the ability to the developing nations to be at somewhat at par where the dev develop nations and, and those people to lift up their masses through the automation. Cuz when automation happens, the corruption goes down and the economy blossoms. And I think it's great and, and we need to do more in it, but we have to be careful about the supply chains around the software so that, so our systems are secure and they are robust. Yeah, >>That's it. Okay. To me for SAR B and my two great co-host, Lisa Martin, Savannah Peterson. I'm John Furry. You're watching the Cube Day one in, in the Books. We'll see you tomorrow, day two Cuban Cloud Native live in Detroit. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat techno music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome to theCUBE here live in Detroit for KubeCon + CloudNativeCon 2022. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. This is our seventh consecutive KubeCon + CloudNativeCon. Since inception, theCube's been there every year. And of course, theCUBE continues to grow. So does the community as well as our host roster. I'm here with my co-host, Lisa Martin. Lisa, great to see you. And our new theCube host, Savannah Peterson. Savannah, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks, John. >> Welcome. >> Welcome to the team. >> Thanks, team. It's so wonderful to be here. I met you all last KubeCon and to be sitting on this stage in your company is honestly an honor. >> Well, great to have you. Lisa and I have done a lot of shows together and it's great to have more cadence around. You know, more fluid around the content, and also the people. And I would like you to take a minute to tell people your background. You know the community here. What's the roots? You know the Cloud Native world pretty well. >> I know it as well as someone my age can. As we know, the tools and the tech is always changing. So hello, everyone. I'm Savannah Peterson. You can find me on the internet @SavIsSavvy. Would love to hear from you during the show. Big fan of this space and very passionate about DevOps. I've been working in the Silicon Valley and the Silicon Alley for a long time, helping companies scale internationally as a community builder as well as a international public speaker. And honestly, this is just such a fun evolution for my career and I'm grateful to be here with you both. >> We're looking forward to having you on theCUBE. Appreciate it. Lisa? >> Yes. >> KubeCon. Amazing again this year. Just keeps growing bigger and bigger. >> Yes. >> Keynote review, you were in there. >> Yup. >> I had a chance to peek in a little bit, but you were there and got most of the news. What was the action? >> You know, the action was really a big focus around the maintainers, what they're doing, giving them the props and the kudos and the support that they deserve. Not just physically, but mentally as well. That was a really big focus. It was also a big focus on mentoring and really encouraging more people- >> Love that. >> I did, too. I thought that was fantastic to get involved to help others. And then they showed some folks that had great experiences, really kind of growing up within the community. Probably half of the keynote focus this morning was on that. And then looking at some of the other projects that have graduated from CNCF, some of these successful projects, what they're doing, what folks are doing. Cruise, one of the ones that was featured. You've probably seen their driverless cars around San Francisco. So it was great to see that, the successes that they've had and where that's going. >> Yeah. Lisa, we've done how many shows? Hundreds of shows together. When you see a show like this grow and continue to mature, what's your observation? You've seen many shows we've hosted together. What jumps out this year? Is it just that level of maturization? What's your take on this? >> The maturization of the community and the collaboration of the community. I think those two things jumped out at me even more than last year. Last year, obviously a little bit smaller event in North America. It was Los Angeles. This year you got a much stronger sense of the community, the support that they have for each other. There were a lot of standing ovations particularly when the community came out and talked about what they were doing in Ukraine to support fellow community members in Ukraine and also to support other Ukrainians in terms of getting in to tech. Lot of standing ovations. Lot of- >> Savannah: Love that, yeah. >> Real authenticity around the community. >> Yeah, Savannah, we talked on our intro prior to the event about how inclusive this community is. They are really all in on inclusivity. And the Ukraine highlight, this community is together and they're open. They're open to everybody. >> Absolutely. >> And they're also focused on growing the educational knowledge. >> Yeah, I think there's a real celebration of curiosity within this community that we don't find in certain other sectors. And we saw it at dinner last night. I mean, I was struck just like you Lisa walking in today. The energy in that room is palpably different from last year. I saw on Twitter this morning, people are very excited. Many people, their first KubeCon. And I'm sure we're going to be feeding off of that, that kind of energy and that... Just a general enthusiasm and excitement to be here in Detroit all week. It's a treat. >> Yeah, I even saw Stu Miniman earlier, former theCube host. He's at Red Hat. We were talking on the way in and he made an observation I thought was interesting I'll bring up because this show, it's a lot "What is this show? What isn't this show?" And I think this show is about developers. What it isn't is not a business show. It's not about business. It's not about industry kind of posturing or marketing. All the heavy hitters on the dev side are here and you don't see the big execs. I mean, you got the CEOs of startups here but not the CEOs of the big public companies. We see the doers. So, I mean, I think my take is this show's about creating products for builders and creating products that people can consume. And I think that is the Cloud Native lanes that are starting to form. You're either creating something for builders to build stuff with or you're creating stuff that could be consumed. And that seems for applications. So the whole app side and services seem to be huge. >> They also did a great job this morning of showcasing some of the big companies that we all know and love. Spotify. Obviously, I don't think a day goes by where I don't turn on Spotify. And what it's done- >> Me neither. >> What it's done for the community... Same with Intuit, I'm a user of both. Intuit was given an End User Award this morning during the keynote for their contributions, what they're doing. But it was nice to see some just everyday companies, Cloud Native companies that we all know and love, and to understand their contributions to the community and how those contributions are affecting all of us as end users. >> Yeah, and I think those companies like Intuit... Argo's been popular, Arlo now new, seeing those services, and even enterprises are contributing. You know, Lyft is always here, popular with Envoy. The community isn't just vendors and that's the interesting thing. >> I think that's why it works. To me, this event is really about the celebration of developer relations. I mean, every DevRel from every single one of these companies is here. Like you said, in lieu of the executive, that's essentially who we're attracting. And if you look out over the show floor here, I mean, we've probably got, I don't know, three to four extra vendors that we had last year. It totally is a different tone. This community doesn't like to be sold to. This community likes to be collaborative. They like to learn and they like to help. And I think we see that within the ecosystem inside the room today. >> It's not a top down sales pitch. It's really consensus. >> No. >> Do it out in the open transparency. Don't sell me stuff. And I think the other thing I like about this community is that we're starting to see that... And then we've said this in theCube before. We'll say it again. Maybe be more controversial. Digital transformation is about the developer, right? And I think the power is going to shift in every company to the developer because if you take digital transformation to completion, everything happens the way it's happening, the company is the application. It's not IT who serves the organization- >> I love thinking about it like that. That's a great point, John. >> The old phase was IT was a department that served the business. Well, the business is IT now. So that means developer community is going to grow like crazy and they're going to be in the front lines driving all the change. In my opinion, you going to see this developer community grow like crazy and then the business side on industry will match up with that. I think that's what's going to happen. >> So, the developers are becoming the influencers? >> Developers are the power source for all companies. They're in charge. They're going to dictate terms to how businesses will run because that's going to be natural 'cause digital transformation's about the app and the business is the app. So that mean it has to be coded. So I think you're going to see a lot of innovation around app server-like experiences where the the apps are just being developed faster than the infrastructures enabling that completely invisible. And I think you're going to see this kind of architecture-less, I'll put it out there that term architecture-less, environment where you don't need an architecture. It's just you code away. >> Yeah, yeah. We saw GitHub's mentioned in the keynote this morning. And I mean, low code, no code. I think your fingers right on the pulse there. >> Yeah. What did you guys see? Anything else you see? >> I think just the overall... To your point, Savannah, the energy. Definitely higher than last year. When I saw those standing ovations, people really come in together around the sense of community and what they've accomplished especially in the last two plus years of being remote. They did a great job of involving a lot of folks, some of whom are going to be on the program with us this week that did remote parts of the keynote. One of our guests on today from Vitess was talking about the successes and the graduation of their program so that the sense of community, but also not just the sense of it, the actual demonstration of it was also quite palpable this morning, and I think that's something that I'm excited for us to hear about with our guests on the program this week. >> Yeah, and I think the big story coming out so far as the show starts is the developers are in charge. They're going to set the pace for all the ops, data ops, security ops, all operations. And then the co-located events that were held Monday and Tuesday prior to kickoff today. You saw WebAssembly's come out of the woodwork as it got a lot of attention. Two startups got funded heavily on Series A. You're starting to see that project really work well. That's going to be an additional to the container market. So, interesting to see how Docker reacts to that. Red Hat's doing great. ServiceMeshCon was phenomenal. I saw Solo.iOS got massive traction with those guys. So like Service Mesh, WebAssembly, you can start to see the dots connecting. You're starting to see this layer below Kubernetes and then a layer above Kubernetes developing. So I think it's going to be great for applications and great for the infrastructure. I think we'll see how it comes out and all these companies we have on here are all about faster, more integrated, some very, very interesting to see. So far, so good. >> You guys talked about in your highlight session last week or so. Excited to hear about the end users, the customer stories. That's what I'm interested in understanding as well. It's why it resonates with me when I see brands that I recognize. Well, I use it every day. How are they using containers and Kubernetes? How are they actually not just using it to deploy their app, their technologies, that we all expect are going to be up 24/7, but how are they also contributing to the development of it? So I'm really excited to hear those end users. >> We're going to have Lockheed Martin. And we wrote a story on SiliconANGLE, the Red Hat, Lockheed Martin, real innovation on the edge. You're starting to see educate with the edge. It's really the industrial edge coming to be big. It'd be very interesting to see. >> Absolutely, we got Ford Motor Company coming on as well. I always loved stories, Savannah, that are history of companies. Ford's been around since 1903. How is a company that- >> Well, we're in the home of Ford- as well here. >> We are. How they evolved digitally? What are they doing to enable the developers to be those influencers that John says? It's going to be them. >> They're a great example of a company that's always been on the forefront, too. I mean, they had a head of VRs 25 years ago when most people didn't even know what VR was going to stand for. So, I can't wait for that one. You tease the Docker interview coming up very well, John. I'm excited for that one. One last thing I want to bring up that I think is really refreshing and it's reflected right here on this stage is you talked about the inclusion. I think there's a real commitment to diversity here. You can see the diversity stats on CNCF's website. It's right there on KubeCon. At the bottom, there's a link in every email I've gotten highlighting that. We've got two women on this stage all week which is very exciting. And the opening keynote was a woman. So quite frankly, I am happy as a female in this industry to see a bit more representation. And I do appreciate just on the note of being inclusive, it's not just about gender or age, it's also about the way that CNCF thinks about your experience since we're in this kind of pandemic transitional period. They've got little pins. Last year, we had bracelets depending on your level of comfort. Equivocally like a stoplight which is... I just think it's really nice and sensitive and that attention to detail makes people feel comfortable. Which is why we have the community energy that we have. >> Yeah, and being 12 years in the business... With theCUBE, we've been 12 years in the business, seven years with KubeCon and Cloud Native, I really appreciate the Linux Foundation including me as I get older. (Lisa and Savannah laugh) >> Savannah: That's a good point. >> Ageism were, "Hey!" Thank you. >> There was a lot of representation. You talked about females and so often we go to shows and there's very few females. Some companies are excellent at it. But from an optics perspective, to me it stands out. There was great representation across. There was disabled people on stage, people of color, women, men of all ages. It was very well-orchestrated. >> On the demographic- >> And sincere. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And the demographics, too. On the age side, it's lower too. You're starting to see younger... I mean, high school, college representation. I saw a lot of college students last night. I saw on the agenda sessions targeting universities. I mean, I'm telling you this is reaching down. Open source now is so great. It's growing so fast. It's continuing to thunder away. And with success, it's just getting better and better. In fact, we were talking last night about at some point we might not have to write code. Just glue it together. And that's why I think the supply chain and security thing is an issue. But this is why it's so great. Anyone can code and I think there's a lot of learning to have. So, I think we'll continue to do our job to extract the signal from the noise. So, thanks for the kickoff. Good commentary. Thank you. All right. >> Of course. >> Let's get started. Day one of three days of live coverage here at KubeCon + CloudNativeCon. I'm John Furrier with Lisa Martin, and Savannah Peterson. Be back with more coverage starting right now. (gentle upbeat music)

>>Yeah, >>yeah. Hello, everyone. And welcome to the cultivating a data slowing culture. Jack, my name is Paula Johnson. I'm thought Spots head of community, and I am so excited to be your host heared at beyond. One of my favorite things about beyond is connecting with everyone and just feeling that buzz and energy from you all. So please don't be shy and engage in the chat. I'll be there shortly. We all know that when it comes to being fluent in a language, it's all about how do you take data in the sense and turn it into action? We've seen that in the hands of employees. Once they have access to this information, they are more engaged in their role. They're more productive, and most importantly, they're making better decisions. I think all of us want a little bit more of that, don't we? In today's track, you'll hear from expert partners and our customers and best practices that you could start applying to build that data. Fluent culture in your organization that we're seeing is powering the digital transformation across all industries will also discuss the role that the analysts of the future plays when it comes to this cultural shift and how important it is for diversity in data that helps us prevent bias at scale. To start us off our first session of the day is cultivating a data fluent culture, the essence and essentials. Our first speaker, CEO and founder of the Data Lodge, Valerie Logan. Valerie, Thank you for joining us today of passings over to you Now. >>Excellent. Thank you so much while it's so great to be here with the thought spot family. And there is nothing I would love to talk more about than data literacy and data fluency. And I >>just want to take a >>second and acknowledge I love how thought spot refers to this as data fluency and because I really see data literacy and fluency at, you know, either end of the same spectrum. And to mark that to commemorate that I have decorated the Scrabble board for today's occasion with fluency and literacy intersecting right at the center of the board. So with that, let's go ahead and get started and talking about how do you cultivate a data fluent culture? So in today's session, I am thrilled to be able to talk through Ah, few dynamics around what's >>going >>on in the market around this area. Who are the pioneers and what are they doing to drive data fluent culture? And what can you do about it? What are the best practices that you can apply to start this? This momentum and it's really a movement. So how do you want to play a part in this movement? So the market in the myths, um you know, it's 2020. We have had what I would call an unexpected awakening for the topic of data literacy and fluency. So let's just take a little trip down memory lane. So the last few years, data literacy and data fluency have been emerging as part of the chief data officer Agenda Analytics leaders have been looking at data culture, um, and the up skilling of the workforce as a key cornerstone to how do you create Ah, modern data and analytic strategy. But often this has been viewed as kind of just training or visualization or, um, a lot of focus on the upscaling side of data literacy. So there's >>been >>some great developments over the past few years with I was leading research at Gartner on this topic. There's other work around assessments and training Resource is. But if I'm if I'm really honest, they a lot of this has been somewhat viewed as academic and maybe a bit abstract. Enter the year 2020 where data literacy just got riel and it really can no longer be ignored. And the co vid pandemic has made this personal for all of us, not only in our work roles but in our personal lives, with our friends and families trying to make critical life decisions. So what I'd ask you to do is just to appreciate that this topic is no longer just a work thing. It is personal, and I think that's one of the ways you start to really crack. The culture code is how do you make this relevant to everyone in their personal lives? And unfortunately, cove it did that, and it has brought it to the forefront. But the challenge is how do you balance how do analytics leaders balance the need to up skill the workforce in the culture, with all of these competing needs around modernizing the platform and, um, driving trusted data and data governance? So that's what we'll be exploring is how to do this in parallel. So the very first thing that we need to do is start with the definition and I'd like to share with you how I framed data literacy for any industry across the globe. Which is first of all to appreciate that data literacy as a foundation capability has really been elevated now as >>an >>equivalent to people process and technology. And, you know, if you've been around a while, you know that classic trinity of people process and technology, It's the way that we have thought about how do you change an organization but with the digitization of our work, our lives, our society, you know anything from how do we consume information? How do we serve customers? Um, you know, we're walking sensors with our smartphones are worlds are digital now, and so data has been elevated as an equivalent Vector two people process and technology. And this is really why the role of the chief data officer in the analytics leader has been elevated to a C suite role. And it's also why data literacy and fluency is a workforce competency, not just for the specialist eso You know, I'm an old math major quant. So I've always kind of appreciated the role of data, but now it's prevalent to all right in work in life. So this >>is a >>mindset shift. And in addition to the mindset shift, let's look at what really makes up the elements of what does it mean to be data literate. So I like to call it the ability to read, write and communicate with data in context in both work in life and that it has two pieces. It has a vocabulary, so the vocabulary includes three basic sets of terms. So it includes data terms, obviously, so data sources, data attributes, data quality. There are analysis methods and concepts and terms. You know, it could be anything from, ah, bar Chart Thio, an advanced machine learning algorithm to the value drivers, right? The business acumen. What problems are resolving. So if you really break it down, it's those three sets of terms that make up the vocabulary. But it's not just the terms. It's also what we do with those terms and the skills and the skills. I like to refer to those as the acronym T T E a How do you think? How do you engage with others and how do you act or apply with data constructively? So hopefully that gives you a good basis for how we think about data literacy. And of course, the stronger you get in data literacy drives you towards higher degrees of data fluency. So I like to say we need to make this personal. And when we think about the different roles that we have in life and the different backgrounds that we bring, we think about the diversity and the inclusion of all people and all backgrounds. Diversity, to me is in addition to diversity of our gender identification, diversity of our racial backgrounds and histories. Diversity is also what is what is our work experience in our life experience. So one of the things I really like to do is to use this quote when talking about data literacy, which is we don't see things as they are. We see them as we are. So what we do is we create permission to say, you know what? It's okay that maybe you have some fear about this topic, or you may have some vulnerability around using, um you know, interactive dashboards. Um, you know, it's all about how we each come to this topic and how we support each other. So what I'd like to dio is just describe how we do that and the way that I like to teach that is this idea that we we foster data literacy by acknowledging that really, you learn this language, you learn this through embracing it, like learning a second language. So just take a second and think about you know what languages you speak right? And maybe maybe it's one. Maybe it's too often there's, you know, multiple. But you can embrace data literacy and fluency like it's a language, and somehow that creates permission for people to just say, you know, it's OK that I don't necessarily speak this language, but but I can try. So the way that we like to break this down and I call this SL information as a second language built off of the SL construct of English as a second language and it starts with that basic vocabulary, right? Every language has a vocabulary, and what I mentioned earlier in the definition is this idea that there are three basic sets of terms, value information and analysis. And everybody, when they're learning things like Stow have like a little pneumonic, right? So this is called the V A model, and you can take this and you can apply it to any use case. And you can welcome others into the conversation and say, You know, I really understand the V and the I, but I'm not a Kwan. I don't understand the A. So even just having this basic little triangle called the Via Model starts to create a frame for a shared conversation. But it's not just the vocabulary. It's also about the die elects. So if you are in a hospital, you talk about patient outcomes. If you are in insurance, you talk about underwriting and claims related outcomes. So the beauty of this language is there is a core construct for a vocabulary. But then it gets contextualized, and the beauty of that is, even if you're a classic business person that don't you don't think you're a data and analytics person. You bring something to the party. You bring something to this language, which is you understand the value drivers, so hopefully that's a good basis for you. But it's not just the language. It's also the constructs. How do you think? How do you interact and how do you add value? So here's a little double click of the T E. A acronym to show you it's Are you aware of context? So when you're watching the news, which could be interesting these days, are you actually stepping back and taking pause and saying E wonder what the source of that ISS? I wonder what the assumptions are or when you're in interacting with others. What is your degree of the ability? Thio? Tele Data story, Right? Do you have comfort and confidence interacting with others and then on the applying? This is at the end of the day, this is all about helping people make decisions. So when you're making a decision, are you being conscientious of the ethics right, the ethics or the potential bias in what you're looking at and what you're potentially doing? So I hope this provides you a nice frame. Just if you take nothing else away, take away the V A model as a way to think about a use case and application of data that there's different dialects. So when you're interacting with somebody, think of what dialect are they speaking? And then these three basic skill sets that were helping the workforce to up skill on. But the last thing is, um, you know, there's there's different levels of proficiency, and this is the point of literacy versus fluency. Depending on your role. Not everyone needs to speak data at the same level. So what we're trying to do is get everyone, at least to a shared level of conversational data, right? A basic level of foundation literacy. But based on your role, you will develop different degrees of fluency. The last point of treating this as a language is the idea that we don't just learn language through training. We learn language through interaction and experience. So I would encourage you. Just think about all what are all the different ways you can learn language and apply those to your relationship with data. Hopefully, that makes sense. Um, >>there's a >>few myths out there around this topic of data literacy, and I just want to do a little myth busting real quickly just so you can be on the lookout for these. So first of all data literacy is not about just about training. Training and assessments are certainly a cornerstone, however, when you think about developing a language, yeah, you can use a Rosetta Stone or one of those techniques, but that only gets you. So far. It's conversations you have. It's immersion. Eso keep in mind. It's not just about training. There are many ways to develop language. Secondly, data literacy is not just about internal structure, data and statistics. There are so many different types of data sets, audio, video, text, um, and so many different methods for synthesizing that content. So keep in mind, this isn't just about kind of classic data and methods. The third is visualization and storytelling are such a beautiful way to bring data literacy toe life. But it's not on Lee about visualization and storytelling, right? So there are different techniques. There are different methods on. We'll talk in a minute about health. Top Spot is embedding a lot of the data literacy capabilities into the environment. So it's not just about visualization and storytelling, and it's certainly not about making everybody a junior data scientist. The key is to identify, you know, if you are a call center representative. If you are a Knop orations manager, if you are the CEO, what is the appropriate profile of literacy and fluency for you? The last point and hopefully you get this by now is thistle is not just a work skill. And I think this is one of the best, um, services that we can provide to our employees is when you train an employee and help them up. Skill their data fluency. You're actually up Skilling, the household and their friends and their family because you're teaching them and then they can continue to teach. So at the >>end of >>the day, when we talk about what are the needs and drivers like, where's the return and what are the main objectives of, you know, having a C suite embrace state illiteracy as, ah program? There are primarily four key themes that come up that I hear all the time that I work with clients on Number one is This is how you help accelerate the shift to a data informed, insight driven culture. Or I actually like how thought spot refers to signals, right? So it's not even just insights. It's How do you distill all this noise right and and respond to the signals. But to do that collectively and culturally. Secondly, this is about unlocking what I call radical collaboration so well, while these terms often, sometimes they're viewed as, oh, we need to up skill the full population. This is as much about unlocking how data scientists, data engineers and business analysts collaborate. Right there is there is work to be done there, an opportunity there. The third is yes, we need to do this in the context of up Skilling for digital dexterity. So what I mean by that is data literacy and fluency is in the context of whole Siris of other up Skilling objectives. So becoming more agile understanding, process, automation, understanding, um, the broader ability, you know, ai and in Internet of things sensors, right? So this is part of a portfolio of up skilling. But at the end of the day, it comes down to comfort and confidence. If people are not comfortable with decision making in their role at their level in their those moments that matter, you won't get the kind of engagement. So this is also about fostering comfort and confidence. The last thing is, you know, you have so much data and analytics talent in your organization, and what we want to do is we want to maximize that talent. We really want to reduce dependency on reports and hey, can you can you put that together for me and really enable not just self service but democratizing that access and creating that freedom of access, but also freed up capacity. So if you're looking to build the case for a program, these air the primary four drivers that you can identify clear r A y and I call r o, I, I refer to are oh, I two ways return on investment and also risk of ignoring eso. You gotta be careful. You ignore these. They're going to come back to haunt you later. Eso Hopefully this helps you build the case. So let's take a look at what is a data literacy program. So it's one thing to say, Yeah, that sounds good, but how do you collectively and systemically start to enable this culture change? So, in pioneering data literacy programs, I like to call a data literacy program a commitment. Okay, this is an intentional commitment to up skill, the workforce in the culture, and there's really three pieces to that. The first is it has to be scoped to say we are about enabling the full potential of all associates. And sometimes some of my clients are extending that beyond the virtual walls of their organization to say S I'm working with a U. S. Federal agency. They're talking about data literacy for citizens, right, extending it outside the wall. So it's really about all your constituents on day and associates. Secondly, it is about fostering shared language and the modern data literacy abilities. The third is putting a real focus on what are the moments that matter. So with any kind of heavy change program, there's always a risk that it can. It can get very vague. So here's some examples of the moments that you're really trying to identify in the moments that matter. We do that through three things. I'll just paint those real quick. One is engagement. How do you engage with the leaders? How do you develop community and how do you drive communications? Secondly, we do that through development. We do that through language development, explicitly self paced learning and then of course, broader professional development and training. The third area enablement. This one is often overlooked in any kind of data literacy program. And this is where Thought spot is driving innovation left and right. This is about augmentation of the experience. So if we expect data literacy and data fluency to be developed Onley through training and not augmenting the experience in the environment, we will miss a huge opportunity. So thought spot one. The announcement yesterday with search assist. This is a beautiful example of how we are augmenting guided data literacy, right to support unending user in asking data rich questions and to not expect them to have to know all the forms and features is no different than how a GPS does not tell you. Latitude, longitude, a GPS tells you, Turn left, turn right. So the ability to augment that the way that thought spot does is so powerful. And one of my clients calls it data literacy by design. So how are we in designing that into the environment? And at the end of the day, the last and fourth lever of how you drive a program is you've gotta have someone orchestrating this change. So there is a is an art and a science to data literacy program development. So a couple of examples of pioneers So one pioneer nationwide building society, um, incredible work on how they are leveraging thought spot In particular, Thio have conversations with data. They are creating frictionless voyages with data, and they're using the spot I Q tool to recommend personalized insight. Right? This is an example of that enablement that I was just explaining. Second example, Red hat red hat. They like to describe this as going farther faster than with a small group of experts. They also refer to it as supporting data conversations again with that idea of language. So what's the difference between pioneers and procrastinators? Because what I'm seeing in the market right now is we've got these frontline pioneers who are driving these programs. But then there's kind of a d i Y do it yourself mentality going on. So I just wanted to share what I'm observing as this contrast. So procrastinators are kind of thinking I have no idea where they even start with us, whereas pioneers air saying, you know what, this is absolutely central. Let's figure it out procrastinators are saying. You know what? This probably isn't the right time for this program. Other things are more important and pioneers air like you know what? We don't have an option fast forward a year from now. Do we really think this is gonna organically change? This is pervasive to everything we dio procrastinators. They're saying I don't even know who to put in charge for this. And pioneers there saying this needs a lead. This needs someone focusing on it and a network of influencers. And then finally, procrastinators, They're generally going, you know, we're just gonna wing this and we'll just we'll stand up in academy. We'll put some courses together and pioneers air saying, You know what? We need to work smart. We need a launch, We need a leverage and we need to scale. So I hope that this has inspired you that, you know, there really are many ways to go forward, as FDR said, and only one way of standing still. So not taking an action is a choice. And there were, you know, it does have impact. So a couple of just quick things to wrap up one is how do you get started with the data literacy program, so I recommend seven steps. Who's your sponsor and who is the lead craft? Your case for change. Make it explicit. Developed that narrative craft a blueprint that's scalable but that has an initial plan where data literacy is part of not separate. Run some pilot workshops. These can be so fun and you can tackle the fear and vulnerability concern with really going after, Like how? How do we speak data across different diverse parts of the team. Thes are so fun. And what I find is when I teach people how to run a workshop like this, they absolutely want to repeat it and they get demand for more and more workshops launch pragmatically, right? We don't have any time or energy for big, expansive programs. Identify some quick winds, ignite the grassroots movement, low cost. There are many ways to do that. Engage the influencers right, ignite this bottom up movement and find ways to welcome all to the party. And then finally, you gotta think about scale right over time. This is a partnership with learning and development partnership with HR. This becomes the fabric of how do you onboard people. How do you sustain people? How do you develop? So the last thing I wanted to just caution you on is there's a few kind of big mistakes in this area. One is you have to be clear on what you're solving for, right? What does this really mean? What does it look like? What are the needs and drivers? Where is this being done? Well, today, to be very clear on what you're solving for secondly, language matters, right? If if that has not been clear, language is the common thread and it is the basis for literacy and fluency. Third, going it alone. If you try to tackle this and try to wing it. Google searching data literacy You will spend your time and energy, which is as precious of a currency as your money on efforts that, um, take more time. And there is a lot to be leveraged through through various partnerships and leverage of your vendor providers like thought spot. Last thing. A quick story. Um, over 100 years ago, Ford Motor Company think about think about who the worker population was in the plants. They were immigrants coming from all different countries having different native languages. What was happening in the environment in the plants is they were experiencing significant safety issues and efficiency issues. The root issue was lack of a shared language. I truly believe that we're at the same moment where we're lacking a shared language around data. So what Ford did was they created the Ford English school and they started to nurture that shared language. And I believe that that's exactly what we're doing now, right? So I couldn't I couldn't leave this picture, though, and not acknowledge. Not a lot of diversity in that room. So I know we would have more diversity now if we brought everyone together. But I just hope that this story resonates with you as the power of language as a foundation for growing literacy and fluency >>for joining us. We're actually gonna be jumping into the next section, so grab a quick water break, but don't wander too far. You definitely do not want to miss the second session of today. We're going to be exploring how to scale the impact and how to become a change agent in your organization and become that analysts of the future. So season

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live, from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE! Covering KubeCon, and CloudNativeCon. Brought to you by RedHat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, this is theCUBE's fourth year of covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. This is the North America show here in San Diego it's 2019, he is John Troyer, I am Stu Miniman, and happy to welcome to the program, first of all, I have Murli Thirumali, who is the co-founder and CEO of Portworx, and Murli, thank you so much for bringing one of your customers on the program, Satish Puranam, who is a Technical Specialist with Ford Motor Company. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. >> Delighted to be here. >> All right, so Satish, we're going to start with you because, you know, the growth of this ecosystem has been phenomenal, there were End Users up on the mainstage, we've already had them, there's over, there's 129 now CNCF End User Participants there, but, you know, bring us in Ford, you know, we were getting ready for this, we're talking, there's so much change going in from, you know, of course, everybody talks about autonomous vehicles, and what there have, but, you know, technology has really embedded itself deeply into a company like Ford, so before we get into all the crew, just, bring us a little about into your world, what's happening, changing, and, you know, what your team does. >> Sure, in like uh, Ford generally has been in like a transformation journey for about the last two years now, that includes like, completely redoing our Data Centers, our Application Portfolio, as part of this monolithic journey, we started our journey with Cloud Foundry, we have been a huge favorite to Cloud Foundry shops for some time. And then, we also would like to start dabbling with like, Kubernetes and things, associated technologies primarily do for like, looking for like, data services, messaging services, lot of the stateful things, right? Cloud Native and like, Kubernetes, and I- Cloud Foundry, I am sorry, Did great wonders for us, for qualified graphs. So what do we do with like, stateful things? And that's what we started dabbling with Kubernetes and things like that. >> Yeah, Satish, if I could, I want to step back one second here, and say, you know, you do a transformation, consolidation, moving from monoliths to microservices, what was the business driver here, was it one day, some executive got up and said, you know, "hey this sounds really cool, go do it", or was there a specific driver in the business that now, your organization needs to respond to? >> I think the business drive is cost efficiency. Like, uh, there were, like, a lot of things that we would have not done, so there's a lot of technical debt we have to pay down, because of various fragmentation and various other things, so it's always about realizing business efficiencies, and most importantly, speed at which we deliver services to our customers internally, so that was the main driving force for our engaging in this transformation journey for like, about the last few years. >> Okay, Murli we'd love to have bring you to this conversation here. You obviously, agility is one of the things I hear most from customers, the driver of what new things. Infrastructure for the longest time, in many ways, it was like a boat anchor of what held us back. >> Murli: Yep. >> Especially you know, our friends in Networking and Storage, it is difficult to change and keep up with, with what's driving there, so bring us uh, bring us up to speed with Portworx and how you fit into Ford and more broadly. >> Yeah, just a quick introduction to Portworx, we've been around for about five years, now, right from the early days of containers and Kubernetes, and you know, we have quite a few customers now in Production, we have about 130 customers, 50 of the uh, the global 2k and so on, many, almost all those customers are in Production, deploying stat significant workloads. The interesting thing about Kubernetes in the last couple of years, especially, is that everybody recognizes it has won the war for orchestrating containers and applications, but the reality is, the customer still has to manage the whole stack, the stack of not just the app but the data itself underneath, and that's kind of the role of Portworx, Portworx is the platform for storage for Kubernetes, and we orchestrate all the underlying storage and the data applications, with that being said, I think one of the things that we've seen that Ford has kind of led the way in, and has been really amazing, is some of the many surprising things that people don't really know about Kubernetes, which has been happening now with customers like Ford for a while, one of them, for example, is just the use of Kubernetes in on-prem applications. Very few people really kind of, they think of Kubernetes as something that was born in the Cloud, and therefore, has kind of really only mushroomed in the Cloud, and you know, the, one of the key things about Kubernetes, and most of our customers are actually on-prem, and it to me is transforming the Data Center. The agility that Satish speaks about, is something that you don't just need because you are operating in the Cloud, you need that for all of your on-prem applications, too, and that's been one of the unique characteristics that we've seen from Ford. >> Yeah, and that's, I mean, you talked about your journey, Satish, you know, the pivotal folks really talk a lot about transformation and agility you know, no matter where your apps were sitting, I'm kind of curious in terms of the storage and the stateful- statefulness of the applications that your working with now, you know, what kind of a, if I looked at it, the diagram, what kind of a set-up would there be? So there's a Portworx layer underneath and beside Kubernetes that's managing some of the storage and some of the replication? Is it then, is the data sitting in a, you know, on a SAN somewhere, is it sitting in the Cloud, I mean, can you kind of describe what a typical application would look like? >> With your typical application, yes we draw storage, we've been drawing storage for the past several years from NetApp as being as the primary source of our data, and then we run on top of that, we run some kind of storage overlays, we dabble with quite a few technologies, including, uh, Rook, NetApp Trident, Uh, Loster, You know I'm like a, it was a journey A journey that we took us, to ultimately lead us to Portworx and we just didn't started with Portworx, but the toughest aspect has been the gravity that the stories bring along with it, and all the things that are, Cloud Native is great but Cloud Native has stayed somewhere and that has to be managed someplace, and we said "Hey, can we do that with Kubernetes?" Right? So, I think we have done a- I won't say an outstanding job but at least we've done a reasonably good job at actually at least wrapping our heads around it and we have quite a few workloads in production that are actually stateful, whether they are Base Systems, uh, there are also like Data Messaging Systems, many cards applications and all that stuff so that has been something that we have been working on for the past few years on our platforms at least. >> Yeah, well I wonder if you could expand a little bit on kind of the application suite you know, "What can we do? What can't we do?" Listen to the keynote this morning I definitely heard it was, if you look at a multi cluster environment, You know, you want to mirror and have the same things there. Well I can't just magically have all the data everywhere and data has gravity and the laws of physics do apply so I can't just automatically replicate terabytes from here to the Cloud or back so help us understand where we are. >> So, you know, one of the, uh, one of the things Satish told me yesterday which I loved was he saying, he said: "Stateful is almost easier than stateless now because of the fact that we have these extensions of Kubenetes." So, one of the things that's been very very impactful is that Kubernetes is now these extensions for managing you know, storage networking and so on, and in fact the way they do that is through an API that just an overlay, so we are an example of an overlay. And so think about it this way, if a customer about 60 percent of our customers are building a platform as their service, in many cases they don't even know what applications are going to be in there, so over our customer base we see the same alphabet soup over and over and over again. Guess what it is, Postgress, Cassandra's, all the databases Redis, right? You know, all of the messaging queues, right? Things like Kafta and uh, you know, Streaming Data, for example, Spark workloads. And so, one of the key things that is happening around with customers particularly on the enterprise side, like large enterprises, they are using all kinds of applications and they're all stateful. I mean they're very few enterprises that are not stateful and they're all running on some kind of a storage substrate that has virtualized the underlying storage. So we run on top of the underlying hardware, but then we're enabled to kind of work with all of the orchestration that Kubernetes provides but we're adding the orchestration of the Data infrastructure as well as the storage itself And I think that's one of the key things that's changed with Kubernetes in the last, I would say, two and a half years is, most people used to think of it as "in the cloud and stateless" but now it's "on-prem and stateful." >> So Satish, one of the things we've talked to customers is their journey of modernizing their applications, it's, there's things that you might build brand-new and are great here but, you know, I'm sure you have thousands of applications and-- >> Satish: Absolutely. >> You know, going from the old way to a brand new thing, there's lot of different ways to get there. Some of it you might need to just-- Where are you with the journey of getting things onto this platform layer that we're talking about? And what will that journey look like for Port? >> Net new apps, anything being new we're talking about writing and like Cloud Native, Twelve factor Apps, like, but anything new, I'm like, anything existing data services, messaging services, what we affectionately call as table stakes services, right? So, which are the Twelve Factor Apps rely on, we are targeting towards Kubernetes. The idea is, "are we there yet?" Probably "no" like We are getting there with along with our partners to put it on the platforms like Kubernetes, right? So, we are also doing a lot of automation orchestration on VMs itself. But the idea is heavy and heavier workloads are going to be lining on Kubernetes platforms, and there will be a lot of work in the upcoming years particularly 2020, where we will be concentrating more on those things and with the continuing growth would be on Twelve Factor, Net New, would be Twelve Factor, Net New, could be in Cloud Foundry, could be in Kubernetes. Time will tell, but uh, that's the guiding philosophy, so to speak, but uh, There's a lot that we have to learn in this journey right now. >> Well I was kind of curious about that Satish, we've talked about an alphabet soup, we've talked about a lot of different projects, and certainly here at KubeCon, the thing about the Cloud Native Computing Foundation is that not that they don't have opinions, but everybody has an opinon, there's lots of different components here, it's not one stack, it's a collection of things that could be put together in several different ways. So you've tried a bunch of different things with storage, I'm actually, I'm interested if there are, if there were kind of surprises or, you know, containerized activity is probably different than I/O activity and storage I/O is probably different than in a virtual machine, the storage itself has some different assumptions built into it, so like, do you have any advise for people? I'm interested in the storage case but also just in, you don't have to evaluate nerworking and security and compliance and a lot of different things. Like, how do you go about approaching this sort of evaluation in this trial; in this journey of when you have-- when you're facing an "alphabet soup" of options? >> I think uh, it all comes down to basic engineering, right? So, what I make, think about "what are your failure points?" I'm like, "could be servers failing, infrastructure, hardware failing" right? So, the basic tendance is that we try to introduce failure as early as possible, like, "what happens if you pull the wire?" and "what happens if the server failure, failure happens?" The question that always comes back is that "is there a way I can compose the same infrastructure so that I can spread it across a couple of failure domains?" I think that was the whole idea of when we started, is like, "can we decompose the problem such that we can actually take advantage of primitives that begged into Kebernetes?" The great thing with CSI, that we're just realizing, before that were all flex drivers, but, how do you actually organize storage in the back end that actually allows you to actually compose this thing on the front end using the Kubernetes primitives. I think that was the process we though. >> John: And CSI is a standard API, >> Correct. >> Yeah, storage API, yeah. >> Exactly. I mean that's what we are relying, we're hoping that it's going to help us with things like, uh, moving compute, uh, to the storage rather than moving storage to the compute. That's one of the evolving, thinking that we're working with. Portworx, we've been working with the community folks from work and a couple of other areas. It's, there's lot to be done here, like we're just in still early days I would say. >> Murli, want to make sure we get out there, Portworx had some updates for this week so what do you say to latest? >> Yeah, so, the updates actually relate to exactly to what Satish was talking about, you know, the idea of, so, container storage has kind of been on it's own journey right? In the early days that John remembers well, it was really providing storage per system, making that data available everywhere. It's then clearly moved to HA being having the High Availability say within the cluster and so on. So, but the data life cycle for the application that's been containerized extends well beyond that so we are making extensions to our own product that are kind of following that path. So, one of the things we launched a few months ago was disaster recovery, DR, which is very very specific to containers, so, container granular DR, so you can kind of you know, take a snapshot, not just of the data, but of the application state as well as the Kubernetes pods back and recover all three of them. At this KubeCon we're announcing two other things. One of them is backup, so our customers, as they make the journey through their app life cycle, inevitably they need to backup their data and we have, again, container granular backup, that will provide all of, by the way, on existing storage. We're not asking anybody to up change, there's underneath their hardware storage substructure. The last thing we're introducing is storage capacity management which is fully automated. You know one of the characteristics of Kubernetes is all of that is "get the person" "get the trouble to get out of the picture," right? The world is going to be automated. Kubernetes is one of the ways people are doing that. And what we have provided is the ability to auto-resize volumes, and auto-resize pods of storage and add more nodes automatically based on policy that is completely automated so that again, these applications, you know when the characteristics of containerized workloads, they aren't predictable; they go up and down and they grow very fast sometimes, and so all of that management, so autopilot, uh, you know, backup DR have now been added in addition to persistent in HA. >> Alright, so before I let you both go, uh, want to talk about 2020? >> So soon. >> Satish, I want to give you a wish. You talked about all the things you'd do the next couple of years, if you could get one thing more out if this ecosystem to make your lives easier for you and your team, you know? What would that be? >> I think standardization on more of these interfaces. Kerbenetes provides a great platform for everybody to interact equally. Uh, more things like CSI, CRI, stuff that's happening in the community. And more standardization will lead to actually, make my life and things and end prizes a lot more easier. Will like to see continue that happening, GPU space looks very interesting, um, so we'll see. That would be my wish at least. >> Alright so Murli, I'm not giving you a wish. You're going to tell me, what should we be looking for from Portworx in participation in, you know, in this community over the next year. >> I think one of the big changes that's happened, really, in the last couple of years that is really kind of achieving a hockey stick is that enterprises are recognizing that stateful apps are really, should be using Kubernetes and can use Kubernetes. So to me, what I predict is that I think, Kubernetes is going to move from not, from just managing applications, to actually managing infrastructure like storage. And so I, you know, my belief is that 2020 is the beginning of where Kubernetes becomes the control plane across the Data Center and Cloud. It's the new control plane. No, what Openstack was aspiring to be many years ago, and that it will be looking upwards to manage applications and downwards to manage infrastructure and, it's not just us who are doing that, folks like VMware with Project Pacific have kind of kind of indicated that that's the direction that we see. So I think it's roll is now much more than just an app orchestrator, it's really going to be the new control plane for infrastructure and apps in the enterprise and in the Cloud. >> Murli, Satish, thank you so much for sharing all the update. >> Thank you >> Pleasure to catch up with both of you >> Thanks. >> Northbound, Southbound, Multi Cloud, theCube is at all of these environments and all the shows. For John Trayer, I'm Stu Miniman as always, thank you for watching theCube.

>> Narrator: Live from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. Brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Docker, Docker, Docker. No, you're in the right place. This is KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2019 here in San Diego. I'm Stu Miniman kicking off three days of live, wall to wall coverage. My co-host for most of the week this week is John Troyer. Justin Warren's also in the house. He'll be hosting for me. And a big shout out to John Furrier who's back at the corporate ranch in Palo Alto keeping an eye on all the CloudNative stuff with us. The reason that I actually mentioned Docker is because it is the first thing that is on our lips this week. Just this week, Docker, which is the company that, if it wasn't for Docker, we wouldn't have 12,500 people here at this event. Really democratized containers. But the company itself built out a platform, millions and millions of companies using containers. But when the orchestration layer came in there was some contention, there's lots of politics. I'm waiting for Docker the Broadway musical to come out to talk about all the ins and outs there because Kubernetes really sucked the air out of the CloudNative world. Spawned tons of projects here. As you can see behind us, this ecosystem is massive and swelling. Last year it was 8,000 people, year before it was 4,000 people, so many people here, so. And John, so, let's start. This is your first time at this show, you've done many shows with us, definitely covered some of the cloud-native, you've worked with many of the companies that are in this ecosystem here. Give me your first impressions here of KubeCon CloudNativeCon. >> Sure, sure. Well, I mean Stu, 12,000 people, it's pretty crowded here. We're right by the t-shirt line, on day one of the conference. Look, a conference this big, especially an open source conference, there's several jobs to be done, right. This is an active set of open source projects and open source communities. So a lot of the keynote this morning was updating people on details about the latest releases, the latest features, what's in, what's out, what's going on. CNCF is a very broad umbrella for a very broad number of projects, not a coherent opinionated stack, it's a lot of different things that all contribute to a set of CloudNative technologies. So, that's job one. Job two, it's a trade show, and it's an industry show, and people are coming here to figure out how to build and learn and operate. So, that wasn't particularly well served by the keynote this morning. There was certainly a lot of hands-on this week. There's a huge number of breakouts, there's a huge number of tracks. Even day zero, which is a set of specialty breakout workshops and sessions, everything was packed. There were over a dozen of those. So, what strikes me is the breadth here is that it's a mile wide. I won't say it's an inch deep, because there's some, but it is a mile wide. >> Yeah, yeah, John you are right, there's so much going on. The day zero tracks are amazing. I think there were over two dozen, maybe even more of the sessions where, you know, half-day or full day deep dives. Even talk, there was some other small events even that went on for two or three days leading up to this. So, sprawling ecosystem. Last year at this show in Seattle, I actually said that this show is the independent cloud show that we've been looking for. John, I was at Microsoft Ignite just a couple of weeks ago, and absolutely, Satya Nadella, they're not talking about the bits and the bytes. It's a, you know, Microsoft is your trusted partner for everything you're going to do, including building 50 billion new applications. Amazon Reinvent will just be right after Thanksgiving, and we will hear a very different message from Amazon and where they play. But this is not a company, it is a lot of different projects. The CNCF is the steward of this, and so Kubernetes is the one that gets all the attention. I think for this group to even grow more, it needs to be focused more on the CloudNativeCon, because how do we do cloud-native? You know, what does that mean? We heard, you know, Sugu was up on stage talking about Vitess, and he said, look, if you bake your database directly in fully Kubernetes cloud-native, that means that when you want to move between clouds you bring your data with you. So, data, security, networking, messaging, there's so many pieces here. It's a lot of work to be done to mature this stack, but it definitely is getting more mature. You start hearing many of these projects with a million or more downloads a month. So many pieces. John, what are you looking to dig into this week, what are you most excited for, what questions do you want answered? >> Well, here on theCUBE I'm always excited when we get to talk to people in production, customers, really see what's going on. There's a lot of stuff in production right now, which is not to say a lot of stuff isn't bleeding edge, right. I hear a lot of stuff, just out of the woodwork, about things that are fragile, things that aren't ready, things that are not quite updated, and I think Kubernetes is an architectural as well as a spiritual home for everything. But there's a lot of pieces that plug in, and there are opinionated ways of doing it, there are best of breed way, there are vertically integrated stacks. What's the best approach, it's not clear to me. I mean if you have to look at it from a company perspective, who are the winners and losers, I don't think that's a very productive way of looking at it. I'm interested in some projects like, we're going to be talking with Rancher, and they've got some announcements, but I'm also interested in K3s, which is their project there. I'm been hearing some really interesting things on the storage front. You know, all these things are really necessary. It's not all just magic containers moving around. You got to actually get the bits and bytes into the right place at the right time and backed up. >> Yeah, I love that you brought up K3s. Edge is definitely something that I hear talking a lot, because if you talk about cloud-native, it's not just about public cloud. Many of these things can run in my on-premises data centers and everything like that. >> And Edge fits in all of these environments, so. Right, winners and losers, I remember two years ago, first time I got a chance to interview Kelsey Hightower, who we do have on the program. He had actually taken a couple shows off, but he's back here at the show. I said Kelsey, why are we spending so much talking about Kubernetes? Doesn't this just get baked into every platform? And he's like, yeah totally, that's not the importance of it. It's not about distributions, and not about who's who, any of the software companies, it's how do they pull all of the pieces together. How do they add value on top of it. One of the terms I've heard mentioned a lot is, we need to think a lot about day two. Heck, there was even one of the companies that was heavy in this space, Mesosphere, they renamed the company Day Two IQ, spelled D2IQ. No relation to R2D2. But you know, that's what they are focused on to help these things really go together. So yeah, we talk about multicloud, and how do I get my arms around all of these pieces, how do I manage a sprawling environment. You add Edge into it. I've got a huge surface of attack for security issues. So, John, remember cloud was supposed to be simple and cheap, and it really isn't either of those things anymore, so yeah, a lot for us to dig into. >> Yeah, it'll be an interesting mix. Developers, experts, people brand new, probably half the people here they're the first time, and people coming over from the IT space as well as people coming from the open source space and I even saw this morning this is the biggest conference I've ever been to. So it's a many, it's different parts of the elephant, I'd say. >> Yeah, absolutely. It is a good sized conference, especially for open source it probably is the largest. But Salesforce Dreamforce is going on this week, which is more than an order of magnitude bigger, so my condolences to anybody in San Francisco right now, because we know the BART and everything else completely swamped with too many people. One other thing, you know, CNCF, what's really interesting for me always is when you look at a lot of these projects, the people that we saw up on stage were companies, it was the person that oh, I started this project and I'm the technical lead on it, and that's where I'm going. We've interviewed many of the people that start these projects, and they come many times out of industry. It's not a vendor that said, hey, I built something and I'm selling it. It is companies like Uber and Lyft that said, we did things at massive scale, we had a problem, we built something, we thought it was useful for us. Open source seemed a good way to help us get broader visibility and maybe everybody could help, and other people not only pitch in, but say this is hugely valuable, and that's where we go with it. So, it's something we, a narrative I've heard for years about everybody's going to be a software company, well, almost everybody at this conference is building software. We've heard about 30 to 40% of the people attending this show are developers, and therefore many of them are going to build products. A question I have and I'll give you is, with Docker, we just kicked off talking about Docker. You know, Docker created this huge wave of what happens there, but to put it bluntly, Docker the business failed. So, they are not dead, there's the piece that's in Mirantis, there's the piece doing the developer piece. We wish all of them the best of luck, but they had the opportunity to be the next VMware, and instead they are the company that gave us this wave, but did not capitalize on it. So, I look around and I see so many companies, and you say, "Hey, what are you?" "Oh, we're the creators of X technology in this project," and my question is, are you actually going to be able to make money and do a business, or is this just something that gets fit into the overall ecosystem. John, any thoughts and advice for those kind of companies. >> Well, I mean we are here, even though there's 12,000 people here, this is still very leading edge, right. There's a lot of pieces, parts here. We're not sure how they're all going to fit together. A lot of the projects have come out of real use cases, like you say, but they're, it's commercial viability is a different beast than utility. Docker was very good at developer experience, but the DNA of actually selling an enterprise management stack is a whole different beast, and there are a lot of those too. So I mean I think a lot of the companies here may not be around, but their technologies will live on. I think if you're here, and the interviews here at the show I think will be a, you'll want to have your antenna out to see like, okay, does this give you a feeling like this is solving a real problem and is incorporated in a real ecosystem. You know, the big company, it cuts both ways, right. Some of the times those technologies get absorbed and become the standard, sometimes they disappear. So the advice is you just put one foot in front of the other and try to find people in production. That's the only way at the end of the day that you could move ahead as a small company. >> All right, John, I gave you one piece of advice when we came here and I said, you know one thing we don't talk about at this show, we don't talk about OpenStack. So, I'm going to break that rule for a second here, just 'cause I feel we have as an industry learned some of the lessons. There is some of the irrational exuberance around some of these. There's lots of money being thrown at these environments, but I do feel that we are reaching maturity and adoption so much faster, because we are not trying to replacing something. The early days of OpenStack was, you know, we're your alternative for AWS, and we're going to get you off of VMware licensing. And both of those things were, they didn't happen for the most part. And OpenStack did fit in certain environments, especially outside of North America there's lots of OpenStack deployments. The telecommunications environment OpenStack is used a bunch. Telecom, another area, talk about Edge, that plays in here and we have a number of conversations. But there are both the big and the small companies when I look at our list of people we're going to be talking on the program. You know, I love first the customers. We've got Fidelity, Bloomberg, Red Cross, and Ford Motor Company all on the program, and we've got big companies, mega giants like Cisco, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, as well as couple of companies that came out of stealth like in the last week, including Render and Chronosphere. So, you know, broad spectrum of what's going on. You've done some of the OpenStack shows with me. You've got a long community and ecosystem viewpoint, John. What do you think and what do you hear, yeah. >> You know, this is, I guess yeah, this is a next generation, you could look at it that way. Anytime you bring together one of these open source foundations, you know, it is kind of a new style of development. You do have differing agendas. People do again have to have their antenna up to see, is this person promoting this open source project and what is their commercial interest in it. Because there are different agendas here. But it looks pretty healthy. Look, there's probably a million engineers worldwide that are going to have to know the guts of Kubernetes, but it's a different job to be done than OpenStack. OpenStack community is actually, that exists, is still thriving. It is good for the job to be done there. This job to be done's a little different. I think it's going to be an engine, you know, the engine that's embedded in everything else. So there's going to be a hundred million engineers that don't need to know anything about Kubernetes, but people here are the people that pop the hood open and start to you know, mess with the carburetor and this is a carburetor show. And so for the coverage here we're going to try to up level it to talk about the business a little bit, but this feels important. It feels cross-cloud, it feels outside of any one silo, and I'm really interested to see what we're going to learn this week. >> Okay, and thank you John. I really appreciate it to get it right final. It's like what is our job here? We are an independent media organization. Yes, we did bring our own stickers here to be able to, you know, we know everybody here loves stickers, so we've got theCUBE and we've got the fun gopher one, our friends at Women Who Go that support this, because, you know, inclusion, diversity, something that this community definitely embraces, we are huge supporters of their, but right, we want to be able to give that broad viewpoint of everything. We're not going to be able to get into every project. We're not going to go as deep as the day zero content web, but give a good flavor for everything going on in the show. I've found of all the shows I've gone to in recent years, this is some of the biggest brains in the industry. There's a lot of really important stuff, so I appreciate bringing my PHD holding co-host with me, John. Looking forward to three days with you to dig into all the environment. All right, so we will be wall to wall coverage, three days. If you're at the event, we are here in the expo hall. You can't miss us, we've got the big lights right next to the CloudNativeCon store. If you're online of course reach out to us. I'm @stu, S-T-U on Twitter. He's @jtroyer, and hit us up, see us in person, come grab some stickers, let us know who you want to talk to and what question you have, and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

(upbeat techno music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Boomi World 2018. Brought to you by Dell Boomi. >> Good afternoon, welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of Boomi World 2018 from Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier and we're welcoming back to theCUBE one of our alumni Nima Badiey, Head of Technology Ecosystems from Pivotal. Nima, welcome back. >> Thank you for having me back. >> So Pivotal, part of the Dell technologies part of the companies, >> Yeah. >> You guys IPOd recently. And I did read that of the first half 2018, eight of the 10 tech IPOs were powered by Boomi. >> Well, I don't know about that specific. I know that tech IPOs are making a big comeback. We did IPO on the 20th of April, so we've passed out six-month anniversary if you can say. But it's been a distinct privilege to be part of the overall Dell family of businesses. I think what you have in Michael as a leader, who, he has a specific vision, but he's left the independent operating units to work on their own, to find their path through that journey, and to help each other as brethren, as like sisters and brothers. And the fact that Pivotal is here supporting Boomi. That Boomi is within our conference of supporting our customers that we're working together really speaks volumes. I think if you take a look at it, a lot of things happened this week, right? So a couple weeks ago, IBM's acquiring RedHat, this morning VMWare's acquiring Heptio. That's a solid signal that the enterprise transformation and adoption of cloud native model is really taking off. So the new middleware is really all about the cloud native polyglock, multiglock environment. >> And what's interesting, I want to get your thoughts on this because first of all congratulations on the IP, some are saying Pivotal's never going to go public, and they did, you guys were spectacular, great success. But what's going on now is interesting. We're hearing here at this show, as other shows is, cloud scale and data are really at the center of this horizontally scalable cloud poly proposition. Okay great, you mention Kubernetes and Heptio and VM where, that's all great. The question that is how do you compete when ecosystems become the most important thing. You worked at VMware you're at Pivotal. Dell knows ecosystems. Boomi's got an ecosystem. Partners, which is also suppliers and integrators. >> Yeah. >> They integrate and also developers. This is a key competitive advantage. What's your take on that here? >> So I think you touched on the right point. You compete because of your ecosystem, not despite your ecosystem. We can't be completely hedgemonic like Microsoft or Cisco or Amazon can afford to be. And I don't think customers really want that. Customers actually want choice. They want the best options but from a variety of sources. And that's why one of the reasons that we not only invest Dell ecosystem but also in Pivotal's own ecosystem is to cultivate the right technologies that will help our customers on that journey. And our philosophy's always find the leaders in the quadrant. The Cadillac vendors, the Lexus vendors onboard them and the most important thing you can do is, to ensure a pristine customer experience. We're not measuring whether feature A from one partner is better than feature B from another partner. We really don't care. What we care about is we can hand wire and automate what would have been a very manual process for customers, so that, let's say Boomi with Cloud Foundry works perfectly out of the box. So the customers doesn't have to go through and hire consultants and additional external resources just to figure out how two pieces of software should work together, they just should. So when they make that buying decision they know that the day after that buying decision, everything's going to be installed and their developers and their app dev teams and their ops teams can be productive. So that's the power of the ecosystem. >> Can you talk about the relationship between Pivotal and Boomi, because Boomi's been born in the Cloud as start up. Acquired eight years ago. You're part of the Dell Technologies family. VMware's VMware, we know about VMware doing great. You guys doing great. Now Boomi's out there. So how do they factor into and what's the relationship you have with them and how does that work, how do you guys work together? >> Perfect question. So, in my primary role at Pivotal is to manage all of our partner ecosystems, specifically the technology partners. And what I look for are any force multipliers. Any essentially ISVs who can help us accomplish more together than we could on our own. Boomi's a classic example of that. What do they enable? So take your classic customer. Classic customer has, let's say, 100 applications in inventory that they have built, managed, and purchased procured off from shelf-to-shelf components. And roughly 20 or 30% are newish, green field applications, perfect for the cloud native transformation. Most 80% of them or 70% are going to be older, ground field applications that will have to be refactored. But there's always going to be that 15% towards the end that's legacy mainframe. It can't be changed, you cannot afford to modernize it, to restructure it, to refactor it. You're going to have to leave it alone, but you need it. Your inventory systems are there. >> These are critical systems, those people who think legacy as outdated, but they're actually just valued. >> No, they're critically valuable. >> Yes. >> We just cannot be modernized. >> Bingo. >> So a partner like Boomi will allow you to access the full breadth of those resources without having to change them. So I could potentially put Boomi in front of any number of older business applications and effectively modernize them by bridging those older legacy systems with the new systems that I want to build. So let's do an example. I am the Gap and I want to build a new version of our in-store procurement system that runs on my iPhone, that I can just point to a garment and it will automatically put it in my, ya know, check out box. How do I do that? Well I can build all the intelligence. And I can use AI and functions and I can build everything it's out of containers, that's great. But I still have to connect to the inventory system. Inventory system... >> Which is a database. All these systems are out there. >> Somewhere, something. And my developers don't know enough about the old legacy database to be able to use it. But if I put a restful interface using Boomi in front of it and a business connector that's not older XML or kind of inflexible, whatever, solo gateways. Then I have enabled my developer to actually build something that is real. That is customer focused. It is appropriate for that market without being hamstrung by my existing legacy infrastructure. And now my legacy infrastructure is not an anchor that's holding me back. >> You had mentioned force, me and Lisa talk about this all the time on theCUBE, where that scenario's totally legit and relevant because in the old version of IT you have to essentially build inventory management into the new app. You'd have to essentially kill the old to bring in the new. I think with containers and cloud native has shown is you can keep the old and sunset it if you want on your own time table or keep it there and make it productive. Make the data exposeble, but you can bring the cool relevant new stuff in. >> Yeah. >> I think that is what I see and we see from customers, like OK cool, I don't have to kill the old. I'll take care of it on my own timetable versus a complete switching cost analysis. Take down a production system. >> Exactly. >> Build something new, will it work. Ya know cross your fingers. Okay, again and this is a key IT different dynamic. >> It is and it's a realization that there are things you can move and those are immutable. They're simply just monolithic that will never move. And you're going to work within those confines. You can have the best of both worlds. You can maintain your legacy applications. They're still fine, they run most of your business. And still invent the new and explore new markets and new industries and new verticals. And just new capabilities all through and through without having to touch in your back end systems. Without having to bring the older vendors in and say can you please modernize your stuff because my business is dependent and I am going to lose that. I'm going to become the new Sears, I going to become the new Woolworth or whoever. Blockbuster that has missed an opportunity to vector into a new way of delivering their services. >> When you're having customer conversations, Nima, I'm curious, talking with enterprise organizations who have tons of data, all the systems including the legacy, which I'm glad that you brought up that that's not just old systems. There's a lot of business critical, mission critical application running on 'em. Where do you start that conversation with the large enterprise, who doesn't want to become a Blockbuster to your point, and going this is the suite of applications we have, where do we start? Talk to us about that customer journey that you help enable. >> That's great 'cause in most cases the customers already know exactly what they want. It's not the what that you have to have the conversation around, it's the how do I get there. I know what I want, I know what I want to be, I know what I want to design. And it's how do I transform my business fundamentally do an app transformation, enterprise transformation, digital transformation? Where do I begin? And so, ya know, our perspective at Pivotal is, ya know, we're diehard adopters of agile methodology. We truly, truly believe that you can be an agile development organization. We truly believe in Marc Andreessen's vision of software eating the world. Which let's unpack what that means. It just means that if you're going to survive the next 10 years you have to fundamentally become a software company, right? So look at all the companies we work with. Are you an insurance company or are you delivering an insurance product through software? Are you a bank or are you delivering banking product through software? Well, when was the last time you talked to a bank teller? Or the atm, most of your banking's done online. Your computer or your mobile device. Even my check cashing, I don't have to talk to anyone. It's wonderful. Ford Motor Company, do they bend sheet metal and put wheels on it or are they a software company? Well consider that your modern pickup truck has... >> They're an IOT company now. (laughing) (crosstalking) Manufacturing lines. >> That's what's crazy. You have a 150 million lines of code in your pickup truck. Your car, your pickup truck, your whatever is more software than it is anything else. >> But also data's key. I want to get your thoughts since this is super important Michael Dell brought up on the keynote today here at Boomi World was, okay the data's got to stay in the car. I don't need to have a latency issue of hey, I need to know nanosecond results. With data, cloud has become a great use case. With multicloud on the horizon, some people are going to throw data in multiple clouds and that's clear use case, and everyone can see the benefits of that. How do you guys look at this? 'Cause now data needs to be addressable across horizontal systems. You mentioned the Gap and the Gap example. >> That's great, so, one of the biggest trends we see in data is really event streaming. Is the idea that the ability to generate data far out exceeds the ability to consume it. So, what if we treated data as just a river? And I'm going to cast my line and only pick up what I want out of that stream. And this is where CAFCA and companies like Solice and any venturing networks and spring cloud functions and spring cloud data are really coming into play, is acknowledgement that yes we are not in a world where we can store all of the data all the time and figure out what to do with it after the fact. We need timely, and timely is within milliseconds, if not seconds. Action taken on an event or data even coming through. So why don't we modernize around, ya know, that type of data structure and data event and data horizon. So that's one of the trends we see. The second is that there is no one database to rule them all anymore. I can't get away with having oracle and that's my be all, end all. I now have my ESQL and SQL and Mongo and Cassandra and Redis and any other number of databases that are form, fit and function specific for a utility and they're perfect for that. I see graph databases, I see key value stores, I see distributed data warehouse. And so my options as a developer, as a user is really expanding, which means the total types of data components that I can use are also expanding exponentially. And that gives me a lot more flexibility on the types of products that I can build and the services that I can ultimately deliver. >> And that highlights micro services trend, because you have now a multitude of databases, it's not the one database rules them all. They'll be literally thousands of database on censors, so micro service has become the key element to connect all these systems. >> All of it together. And micro services really a higher level of abstraction. So we started with virtual machines and then we went to containers and then we went to functions and micro services. It's on an upward trend necessarily as it is an expansion. Into different ways of being able to do work. So some of my work products are going to be very, very small. They can afford to be ephemeral, but there may be many of them. How do I manage a cluster of millions of these potential work loads? Backing off I can have an ephemeral applications that run inside of containers or I can have ridged fixed applications that have to run inside a virtual machines. I'm going to have all of them. What I need is a platform that delivers all of this for me without me having to figure out how to hand wire these bits and pieces from various different either proprietary or open source kits just to make it work. I'm going to need a 60 to 100 or 200 person team just to maintain this very bespoke thing that I have developed. I'll just pull it off the shelf 'cause this is a solved problem. Right, Pivotal has already solved this problem. Other companies have already solved this problem. Let me start there and so now I'm here. I don't have to worry about all this left over plumbing. Now I can actually build on top of my business. The analogy I'd use is you don't bring furniture with you every time you check into a hotel. And we're telling customers every time you want to move to a different city just for business meeting or for work trip we're going to build you a house and you need to furnish it. Well, that's ridiculous. I'm going to check into a hotel and my expectation is I can check out of any other room and they'll all be the same, it doesn't really matter what floor I'm on, what room I'm in. But they'll have the same facilities, the same bed, the same, ya know, restroom facilities. That's what I want. That's what containers are. Eventually all the services surrounding that hotel room experience will be micro services. >> And we're the work load, the people. >> And we are the work load and we're the most important thing, we are the application, you're right. >> I love that. That's probably best analogy I've heard of containers. Nima, thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE, joining John and me today. And talking to us about what's going on with Pivotal and how you guys are really helping as part of Dell business dramatically transform. >> Been my pleasure. Thank you both. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for watching theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier. We are in Las Vegas at Boomi World '18. Stick around, John and I will be right back with our next guest. (light techno music)

(bright samba music) >> Narrator: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico. It's The Cube. Covering Blockchain Unbound. Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. (bright samba music) >> Hello everyone and welcome back to The Cube's exclusive coverage here in Puerto Rico for Blockchain Unbound global conference where leaders from around the world, Silicon Valley, Miami, New York, all over the United States and Puerto Rico and Moscow and South Africa, all over the world come together to talk about the impact of blockchain, cryptocurrency, and a decentralized internet and the impact on society. Our next guest is David Orban. He's the managing director of Networking Society Ventures. Also does some investing. On the keynote speech of the closing session here on Day 1 of Blockchain Unbound. Thanks for joining me. >> Thank you very much for having me. >> So one of the big things that we're seeing in this revolution with blockchain and cryptocurrency is an awareness of how to reimagine democracy, society, and among other things, money transfer, and how that's impacting the world, from entrepreneurship to NGO's and society for good, AI for good, technology for good. So I got to ask ya, I heard some of your presentation, is there's some good tailwinds and some good headwinds in this industry, what's your assessment right now of the state of the globe with respect to how a network society will evolve and what are some of your observations and conclusions? >> One of our fundamental assumptions is that social change is only possible if sustainable technologies emerge to catalyze it. You know, if a slave rebellion won under the Roman Empire, the night of the victory, the slaves would be around the fire to decide who would be the slave the next morning, because they needed slaves to do everything. Today, not only we have achieved a level in our human civilization to outlaw slavery, we have incredible new inventions, like blockchain, to imagine a new social contract that is going to unstoppably come. >> This social contract is interesting, because now you have, I mean, democratization in digital transformation has been kicked around for a long time. Where are some real good examples that you can point to where you see really bright lights of innovation around democratization and digital transformation where it's working, and also where it's not working and what we need to do better? >> Certainly it is fashionable to pretend that technology hasn't helped. And one of the reasons why many people take that stance, is because they are confused. Too many simultaneous changes make the future even harder to predict today that it used to be the case 10, 20 or a hundred years ago. This is especially hard for those who are in charge of making those predictions, politicians, regulators, policy makers. We appointed or elected them in order to make decisions for everybody else. It is an impossible job, but they cannot afford to say that is the case. >> Yeah, and certainly we're in the media business and our model is open media, and even in the media you still have these gate keepers. So we see interesting trends, right so we're seeing disruption horizontally across all industries. If you look at blockchain and some of the things that are coming out, it's spurring real creativity from entrepreneurs as well as leaders, progressives if you will, that are being focused on efficiencies, which is spawning these little spots of innovation. I saw your use case around the solar panel. It was working. They killed it. So, you know, this is examples of where you see people get the value of really fast. So where are the efficiencies? Where's the value of creation coming from? What is blockchain? What is crypto? What is decentralized apps enabling? Is it, are we running too fast? Is it an enabling technology? What's your reaction, the thoughts? >> Some of us have been around in the first internet boom, 20 years ago, and the big three trillion dollars of value have been achieved by the dot-coms as measured by their market capitalization. And you would say, well, that bubble burst, and it all disappeared, but it didn't. We are still using the transatlantic fiber optic cables that were laid down then, and that created the premise for the next 20 years of technology based economic growth. So with blockchain, we are seeing the same, except that contrary to that, which was a quite provincial Silicon Valley phenomenon, blockchain innovation is today, global. So it is going to incredible places incredibly fast, and it is extremely competitive. There are projects that are doing the same thing, addressing the same challenge, all over the world. And it is fantastic. We even have a name for it. It's called forking or ray forking. >> Yeah, forking creates competition, but also faster time the value. Let's talk about the bubble. The dot-com bubble, which I lived through, and you have as well, was again, a Silicon Valley phenomenon, some New York, mostly America, basically, but everything happened. So everything that was talked about actually happened. But at that time, we didn't have a very wired community. Today we have organic communities in place, whether it's from open source communities online to actually a connected global network, AKA mobile internet. The role of communities now, seems to be that counter balancing self-governing opportunity. So I want to get your thoughts. Is the bubble going to be predicated, or letting some air out of that bubble, can it come from the communities? Because you could argue that efficiency in the communities with sourcing the truth if exposing the data can create very fast efficiencies around the transparency, so the thesis is, with the bubble behavior, also comes a connected community. So what's your view on the role of the community as a mechanism to continue to clean up or sanitize or whatever word we want to use to manage and help the self-governing? Because if it's organic ground swell, the communities should theoretically be monitoring and self-governing the growth. You thoughts. >> Those that are afraid of what is happening are incredibly capable of accusing the blockchain world of a thing and its opposite. Because they are saying, oh my god, the value, the metric value, which some mistakenly call the market capitalization, of tokens is increasing too fast, this is a bubble. And then maybe a month later, they will say, oh look it, everything is going to zero, I told you so. Well, either one is the problem or the other is the problem, but not both. The answer to your question is that yes, the community is expressing what is going on at the fine granularity that was not possible before because you would measure that by the subsequent venture funding stages of a startup, and maybe there would be a year or two years or more between one or the other of the stages. Today with tokens, every minute we are measuring the heartbeat of the project and the sentiment of the community around it. And everybody can vote with their tokens. Do I want to be part of this? Or I don't feel aligned anymore. And it is beautiful. But an even more important fact is that yes, today the community is global. When in 1976, Richard Dawkins wrote The Selfish Gene and the last chapter defined memes, which were the unit of the evolution of culture, he didn't mean silly images on the internet with captions. What he meant is, we should really be able to build a new science here. Memetic Engineering is what is fake news, and it is up to people like you and me who believe in the positive role of technology to show that we can actually have memetic engineering that benefits society and the markets. >> I mean, who'd have fake news is two things, the payload of fake news and actually the infrastructure gamification of what it did. I postulate that for, on one end of the spectrum is fake news, you could almost move to the other side of the spectrum and say, this good news. So clickbait equals fake news equals bad behavior, real bait, content, equals real news, real community. So there's a spectrum that you can almost say, we could actually weaponize content for good. >> Evolving our tool set in order to make sure that the wisdom of the crowds creates incredible investment and wealth creation opportunities for billions, not only for the gate keepers is what should be the regulators' best job, and they should be excited to have it rather than panicking. >> I want to ask you a question, philosophically. You mentioned tokens and governance, what we can vote for what people can vote with their coins and or some sort of consensus, gesture, or actually, real token transfer, as a way of voting. This actually, could solve the truth problem, because if you think about it, this is a new mechanism to understand sentiment within, whether it's a project or society, this new mechanism could be a source of truth, hence, but no centralized control, so you got the decentralization thing happening, but that's all predicated on going around a central authority, but the token dynamic, actually if you think about it, could be a token of truth, because statistically, it should work that way. Is that how you see it happening? And is that a directional correct statement? >> For too many years, we believed that Churchill's quip, democracy's the worst kind of government, except every other kind of government, was just a joke. He was giving us a challenge. And we were too weak to step up to that challenge and to design better governance mechanisms, better political instruments, and that is what is happening today. More and more people realize that they are freed up by technology where their relationship with the nation state that pretends to own them through citizenship and taxation can and will be renegotiated. >> I got to ask you a question. I love your logo, you've got a network graph up there that show the network society, implying that we're all connected, almost, you can argue, border-less nations, if you will. But I got to ask you, as that vision of a network society implies we're all connected, so we're all in one big tribe, although maybe, with different characteristics, but how do you see the future as we look at the current internet as almost a 30 year old stack, I mean, we're talkin' ancient relic by today's standards. So how do you see the stack evolving to match this criteria of a network society where the expectations of users and communities in society, whether it's government or groups are expecting new kinds of experiences, new kinds of outcomes? What in the stack is evolving? I mean, blockchain is one piece of it, but we're dealing with an old stack. I mean, it's old guard stuff, keep company's legacy. But the stack needs to be modernized. How does a stack modernize to intersect with your vision of a network society? >> Biological evolution has never been able to go meta. Our eyes are still so badly designed that the nerves bringing signals to our brain puncture the screen on which the images are projected. It's so stupid. We are able to understand when our designs are bad, and we are able to go deep, and actually rip out what has been the best way of going about certain things. This has happened in energy, where we are still in the process of electrifying a lot of things, many stoves are still gas stoves rather than electric as they should be. Or in transportation where we went from horses to cars and now we going to rapidly go to electric transportation. The internet is very young. It's just 30 years old, and the consumer space, just 50, 60 years old as a technology, but it must be fundamentally rebuilt and rethought. >> Yeah, it needs an engine change. It needs a tune up. >> What is dangerous is that there are very powerfully faulty memes being planted into the brains of too many people bringing desirable vulnerabilities in our infrastructure. And too few understand that those vulnerabilities caught everyone, whether they are friends, or real or pretend enemies. We have to build sustainable human civilization on a solid foundation. Nobody is served by maintaining those vulnerabilities that are still poking holes in vital infrastructure around us. >> Yeah, I mean, vital infrastructure and also the soft infrastructure, AKA the human psyche, AK memes in one tactic, to control the belief system and the narrative. But that's an attention driven mindset, so we're seeing that that fake news weaponizing content really prayed on the attention aspect of people where the reputation piece wasn't there. A lot of people now realizing that. How important is reputation in this new era of society, because there's something that's been challenging. We've seen every project, I mean, every project that I've seen, that I like, has an element of reputation in it. So there's a, because you have identity. Identity is super important. Attention, we know what does there. Get my attention. But the new discovery, the new navigation, the new progression to proficiency or value needs to be trusted. Reputation is an important part. Your reaction. >> Blockchain is making a lot of things measurable that were not before, and measuring them, it is able to assign value to them, and wherever there is value, new markets are being born. That is how incredible resources are now being poured in problems that were ignored for many, many years. And what is beautiful, is that blockchain is doing it open source. That is why new sustainable business models are evolving so fast. Back in the days, we would say an internet year is 3 months. I am now saying a blockchain year is 3 weeks. >> So that's fundamental, this value piece. That seems to be the equation that seems to be consistent. That's what you're saying, this value measurement seems to be a key metric and store, that's what the value is going to circulate around? Is that? >> So um, for the moment, our lives are bounded, limited. We have a given number of years to live, and more and more people realize that what they need to maximize is their benefit together with everybody else's benefit, because that is what makes human society valuable to its components and as a whole. So that kind of new outlook is being driven in the blockchain industry by people who don't necessarily need the second billion or the second million, but there are too many people who need to make ends meet, and it is just plain unacceptable that we let them live a life that does not fulfill their potential. >> This is a new opportunity to reimagine that equation. So I got to ask you, I love your work on social economic impact with blockchain, one of the things that we're observing in our reporting and analysis is, societal entrepreneurship is now emerging, what used to be a waterfall philanthropy exercise of NGO's and whatnot, fund something, stand up some servers, build a data center, uh, funding's over, project's over, start all over again. You're kind of chasing this tail. We're seeing real action with people who understand the businesses of nonprofits. We're turning that domain expertise into real, viable ventures. This is now an emerging trend, we're seeing certainly in Washington DC, where they have networks of people that they know, and now building on a tech stack is easier than it every was, so you're starting to see these real business opportunities getting funded and growing, that never would have gotten funding before, whether it's a, you know, an app for missing and exploited children, human trafficking, battered women, to water saving, water purification, all these things are now happening. What's your view on this, because this is kind of an unreported area around this entrepreneurship trend that things are getting to value faster? Do you see the same thing? >> If you ask the founder of the Ford Motor Company if he believed that damaging a community was a good business practice, he would have probably punched you, or at least laughed. Because today, those who feel that maximizing profit is a sacred duty of any capitalistic enterprise, even if it does include extracting and harming communities, employees, stakeholders, is extremely misguided. Positive impact is not counter to profit. They go hand in hand. >> Mission driven enterprises can exist. It's not just for the philanthropy. >> There is nothing else, but a sustainable business. In a long term an unsustainable business cannot be sustained. So if you want to build a business that lasts, you must build it sustainably, ecologically, socially, but of course, also in terms of it being profitable. And what is beautiful about the blockchain is that it completely decoupled the long term sustainability of a project from this silly decision. Should it be a for profit? Should it be a nonprofit? Who cares? What it should be is an inspiration for millions of people to align their creativity and passion with that project. And profits and sustainability will follow. >> And the funding's there and the opportunity time to value is shorter than ever before. Thank you so much for spending the time coming on The Cube and sharing your ideas and your mission and vision. And thanks for coming on. The Cube appreciate it. Okay, we are here with Dave Orban, managing director, Network Society Ventures, changing the world, societal economic impact. I'm John Furrier, your Washington Cube. More live coverage, day 2 tomorrow. We're here both days, Thursday and Friday. Here in Puerto Rico, for Blockchain Unbound, I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (light techno music) (light techno music)

>> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE One of our favorite things to do is go out and visit a lot of the cool innovation companies that are all around us here in Silicon Valley. It's a real blessing to be here. We can do it. And so we're really excited to come here today to Nightscope. They are doing so many interesting things that combine software hardware autonomous vehicles, artificial intelligence security a lot of the topics that we talked about all the time sometimes in the general terms. And here it's real. You can feel it. You can touch it. Don't try to not get over, it way too much. But we're excited to be here. We've got the founder he's the chairman and CEO William Santana Li of Knightscope. Great to see you William. >> Welcome a night scope headquarters. Good to have you here. >> Well first off congratulations on the recently announced funding that's good. >> Thank you. It's our fourth round of funding. So we're using that capital to scale across the country. We're now holding contracts in about 14 states and the companies are now starting to accelerate our growth. So we're pretty excited about that. >> So nothing do the whole history but kind of where you come kind of when did you start when did the first one get deployed. And now you're about ready to launch your fourth model. >> Sure, the company started April of 2013. When we started basically we got the first initial round of comments from all sorts of interesting folks.... Bill, you're out of your mind; This will never work; Security is not an investment thesis; You'll need 50 million dollars to build the first one; Oh and by the way it's too complicated; It's hardware and software you should pick one. And like most good entrepreneurs we ignored everyone and just did what we said we were going to do. So we deployed in the real world. Let's see, May 2015 was the first one that actually was out, operating 24/7, and that seems like so long ago but also just recently as well. >> But you really had bitten off a huge chunk of challenges, right, because you have the hardware piece and they're not only hardware, like a computer, but it's a vehicle goes outside it's in the weather. You've got the software piece, you've got the sensors piece, you've got the monitoring. So you did did bite off quite a chunk, and then you're really delivering it as a solution. So you know you're putting all these things together very much like the first iPhone. >> Yes, probably two comments: one, clients don't care about all that they just want their problem fixed. And so whatever it's going to take to fix that problem; in their particular cases it's crime. And second, I'm going X Ford Motor Company executive, spent 10 years in Detroit a little bit fluent in say large scale hardware outdoors. And for me these are lot easier than building a car. Let's put it that way. >> That's right, no people no glass No. No airbags. Things out. OK. But it begs the question how did you get to the design. Cause they're very distinctive. You know they do look like R2D2, some of the mid tier ones, you've got the stationary and this really cool Jeep-looking one back here. How did you come up with designs what were some of your initial thoughts >> Well first of all we design we engineer we build we deploy we support everything start to in-house. So maybe a little background we have a challenge similar to a law enforcement officer or a law enforcement officer and it's a command respect and authority. Shiny shoes stand up straight. But you cannot scare grandma you cannot scare the child. These are not military products so you need to be able to operate within society. So we spent maybe way too much time worrying about every little font every radius every surface color treatment everything else because part of it is putting that physical presence there to deter negative behavior. But at the same time it needs to be inviting enough to be accepted by society so that when and may are 15 when we first put the one out we were worried like what's going to happen are people going to go nuts or or what we didn't expect and ended up happening was a massive amount of robot selfies everyone's wanting to take a picture with the robot. So maybe put it a different way if you showed up today and the machines patrolling outside were painted black with red LEDs glowing with an ominous sound moving ten times faster than they probably wouldn't be sitting here talking. All right >> Exactly. I was scared by the white one when I pulled this afternoon. >> But we need to provide again that genetical presence and the turns it needs to be accepted by society. >> The next thing I think it's really interesting is the business model and I'm sure when you talk to your investors after they told you you were crazy for doing software to create a system then fracturing they probably said you know what's the business model how are you going to support these things how expensive are they going to be for a capital investment point of view. How about maintenance and ongoing upgrades. But you said forget that we're going to go as a service. So if you could tell us a little bit about that decision and how that's impacted your customer relationships. >> So we offer our technology and machine as a service business model so that gives you the machine the data transfer data storage analysis user interface. All the hardware software upgrades all the maintenance service everything one throat to choke were responsible. So one of the things we want to do for our clients is we don't want you setting up the robot robot maintenance service division right. We need. They're already busy. We've got plenty on their plate. All the security officers and our staffs. So we need to be able to empower them and not add more workload to them. So from a service standpoint that works well too. We're at the bleeding cutting edge of technology. If we were to offer it on our purchase type of arrangement let's just say I spent a lot of time in Detroit we could barely cover our cost of capital selling hardware. And that's probably not a good business model to go after long term. So if we can provide a lot more value to the client and then also retain the authority over the assets and be able to upgrade it. And as most technology around here in Silicon Valley it's better and better and better and better as Mercedes mentioned we dropped the software every two weeks on new hardware 3 6 9 months. So the clients continue to get improved technology and then from a security standpoint we want to make sure given the nature of the product that all the assets are under our control. >> It's interesting too I think that I think something that's not spoken about enough is when you have a services relationship with your client and I assume it's a monthly or a quarterly or whatever you structure your payment system. It forces you to maintain a great relationship. It forces you to continue to deliver value when they are you know writing about the feedback loop is the feedback loop is really important. >> So we signed one to three year long contracts and we had quarterly business reviews with our clients and we get to learn real time and we get real time input. So yeah after the transaction the contract signed that's when the work begins. When we get to celebrate we get to celebrate when our clients win. >> Right. So don't tell me the secret sauce or you can't tell me but I'm just curious as to where some of the real significant challenges are that people maybe don't appreciate is that the integration of these various sensors is the way that it moves. I mean what are some of the real things that make a nightscope autonomous security robot special. >> So as an ex auto executive I think self driving technology is going to turn the world completely upside down and I'm really excited to see all the massive amount our India efforts small medium large and extra large that have been going on. However we're the only company in the world that's actually scaling autonomous technology in the real world with real clients doing real work. It's easy to go build prototypes but you want machines running 24/7 in the rain. Cats dogs people cars trucks goats and sheep. And I don't know what else we've seen. That's a whole other level of engineering and fortunately we've been able to operate in that manner for a very long time depending on who you believe. Autonomous are self driving vehicles require a fail over a human one meaning 30 to 70 percent of the times the algorithms fail someone needs to take over. Despite what some people think there there is nobody in their right. >> And so we've got to we've got to be right 100 percent of the hype right. >> And 24/7 and you got to do a good enough job that it is going to pay you for it. Right. And that requires a different level of scale and a different level of discipline. >> Another question in terms of customer adoption. Well first to back up what you just said. I mean that's part of the benefit of your services model right is that you're getting feedback you get these things feel like he said as you've shipped them to heat and snow and this and that you know you're learning all the time so you actually benefit from that relationship too as opposed to just selling them something. I'm curious from the customer adoption point of view. What was the biggest hurdle that people just didn't either didn't buy it didn't expect it. I got great security guards before Mercedes told me that they'd turn over 300 cent a year. But you know clearly it's a new technology it's something new something different I would imagine there was all kind of interesting challenges to overcome. >> One is just a fundamental structure of our country. Most people don't realize that may be different than the Department of Defense. DoD has a 600 billion dollar budget. There is one person in charge. There's a massive industrial complex to build your new favorite submarine, jet fighter or what have you and they give the troops every level capability you might ever imagine and I'm fine with that. What I have a problem with is we have 2 million law enforcement professionals and security guards that get up every morning on our own soil and won't take a bullet for you and your family. And the level of technology that we provide to them as a country is certainly beneath the dignity of this nation. >> And so what I expect to happen is for us to give them the right set of tools for them to do their jobs much more effectively. The Department of Justice and Homeland Security have no federal jurisdiction over the 19000 law enforcement agencies and 8000 private security firms. There's literally no one in charge and there's basically been no innovation and space so when you ask me how you're going to get this into a clients hands. Well we basically took the thing that was on the movie screen and is now operating autonomously on your premises. Right. And that takes a little bit of gall to do that right. >> Probably the best way is showing how you can do as many videoconferences and calls and what have you but also bringing a machine to their premises and instead of having a discussion with just the chief security officer or the director of physical security or whatever it's like hey the robots here and 50 people come streaming downstairs and it's purchasing it's legal it's finance it's the CFO it's everybody who has a stake somehow of this new massive device patrolling their campus. So you get that by in that way and then now that we've got a track record of crime fighting becomes a little bit easier. >> So we've had in some cases of criminal incidents where a client is experiencing one to two vehicle thefts assaults battery you name it on the premises. We put the machine there and for the last year it's all gone down to zero. As was a Mercedes and mentioned earlier and that makes a big impact. Now when the staff says or the guards this area is so crime ridden I won't even patrol. Now this machines come here and actually made the environment that much safer. They're going to renew that contract. Right. And so the adoption starts getting stronger. Just from our own winds. And so we've now been in service and long enough they're starting to get renewals and renewals are based on merit. We had five break ins or negative things happen a month. Now it's gone down to 2 to 1 0. That makes a huge difference and it's extremely cost effective. >> Now what happens I just want to say it is a really rough neighborhood and your and your machine is patrolling in the parking lot. Certainly some bad guys must come up NATO with a baseball bat or something. I mean there's got to be a tough kind of initial reaction of some of these rough neighborhoods. I mean how do they respond. >> So you want to think of this as two different things. One these are tools for the guards to use. So majority of the clients are looking at this as adding additional capability a force multiplier to get really smart eyes and ears for the security guards to cover more ground and be able to do their jobs again more much more effectively in some cases the physical presence deters a lot of the behavior. So simply if I put a marked law enforcement vehicle in front of your home or your office right. Criminal behavior changes right. Most of these guys, and they're mostly guys, are literally just trying to get away with something and looking for the path of least resistance least resistance right. You walk up like you did today. You pull into a parking lot. I have no idea what this thing does. I don't know what it's recording like. I'll go. All right. And that's exactly what happens. And so clients get to see that that there is a net positive brand enhancing effect. So manufacturing plant a puts one in Kentucky is like hey this is kind of working. Let me call my sister plant in Mississippi. Right. And let's put one there you know mall a in San Jose decides you know this is actually working really well. These guys have helped us a lot. In one case for a different client we were able to have a law enforcement agency and issuing an arrest warrant for a sexual predator. Right. That's a huge win for us to be able to do that or there was a someone that showed up with a shotgun to basically steal someone's car. We captured all the video and everything else that nothing above 12 stories looking at the top of your head is going to be very helpful in doing gave the evidence to law enforcement. The guy was caught before he crossed the state state line. We helped the security guard apprehend thief in a retail environment. The list goes on and on and on. So you start having those kinds of wins. The next mall calls up and says Hey I heard things went really well here. How can we get a couple over here. Right. And that's that's where we are now are starting to really accelerate the growth of the company. So I would be remiss if I didn't ask the obligatory security question terms of getting act so. >> High tact everyone who wants to hack the machine they can't get a home. A little bit that kind of how's the communications work. Do they work autonomously. Do they work in teams. And you know clearly someone's going to sit outside with the laptop and on their second trip back to the parking lot. I'm going to crack this code. >> So we try to do a few things one because we don't sell these things outright. They're always in our control. Just as a basic advantage there. Second we change it often. So that gives us another advantage. Third the teams working on hardening a lot of the stuff making making sure stuff's encrypted encrypted and we only transfer a certain amount though we really need or don't need type of things and then we hire white hack a white hat hackers to try to hack the system and we make the changes accordingly. Everything as you know is hackable but we try to do our job as best possible to make these systems as secure as possible. >> So for the not-hacker, at the mall deployment, I mean how should people interact with these things how do people interact with these things in an environment where it's not necessarily the security guard who is trained and knows exactly what the capabilities are but just kind of in the wild weather be in a parking lot or at the mall I think is a bunch of stuff. >> First it's a kid magnet right. So parents can now explain in the real world why you should probably be studying math and science and yes which is an engineering is a really good thing. Second we're about to release in production a concierge's feature that allows a two way dialogue between the human and the machine. So you know walls closing in 30 minutes or where is Macy's or you know what jeans are on sale today. That sort of thing. You can also do that for authentication at a entrance for manufacturing facility. So let's say there's a K1 stationed at the entrance for a manufacturing plant of transmission parts 18 wheeler shows up at 3:00 in the morning. Compress the intercom button to a dialogue get authenticated. We have the plates we've got all the other signatures that we need. Digital or otherwise to allow that that truck in. All right. So there's all kinds of opportunities again to give the guards much more capability. So go back to the math. You have 2 million guards and officers trying to secure 300 million people across 50 states. I don't care what math you're going to come up with. It doesn't work. And by the way the population keeps growing and that taxpayers can't afford funding this stuff. You need something that's going to be the game changer in this is that game changer. Crime has a trillion dollar negative economic impact on the U.S. every single year. It's a hidden tax we all pay in blood tears and treasure and somehow society has found it acceptable that at these levels it's OK. And I don't know about you but I'm sick and tired of waking up every morning looking on my news feed to find some horrific thing happened again. And what do our political leaders do. We extend our thoughts and prayers. Hey listen buddy. No amount of thoughts and prayers are going to fix this problem. I've got a team of very dedicated engineers and patriots here working on trying to actually fix the problem so we have the honor and privilege to be able to do that every single day here in Silicon Valley. >> Well the the passion comes through Bill and clearly it's a very important mission and congrats on the new funding and I can't wait to see you deployed. >> Appreciate it. >> All right. He's Bill, I'm Jeff. We're at Nightscope. Check it in Mt. View, Thanks for watching. We'll catch you next time.

(upbeat music) >> From Phoenix, Arizona, theCUBE, at Catalyst Conference. Here's your host, JefF Frick. (upbeat music) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are in Phoenix, Arizona at the Girls in Tech Catalyst Conference. About 400 people, fourth year of the conference. Something in the water here in Phoenix, every time we come down here to some Women in Tech event. We were here two years ago for the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing which was fantastic, so we're really happy to be here, get a wide variety, really of women in tech stories from the people here at the conference, so we're excited by our next guest, Tejal Shah, the founder and CEO of Kid Admit. Welcome. >> Well thank you for having me. >> So what is Kid Admit? >> So we help parents search, compare, and apply to preschools based on criteria that's important to them. And so we partner with the schools, we give them the technology to bring their admissions process online, hence making it easier for parents to find schools nearby to them and based on criteria like philosophy that's important, schedule, that sort of stuff. >> So just for preschool? >> Right now just for preschool. The bigger vision is to add more products and services as the kids get older and so we'll have this great, rich data set of information on parents, so then we can give them more relevant recommendations and things that fit in their lives for their kids, like other extracurricular activities and that sort of stuff. >> So it's kind of like helping people with the college admissions process but for-- >> For preschool. >> The five year old right? So I mean, I've got kids, it seems like it's really kind of a function of proximity, is probably the number one thing, or is it in route to my office so I can drop the kid on the way to or from. What are some of the factors that are less obvious that people use in kind of deciding where they want their child to go to preschool? >> Yeah, I mean parenting has changed, because everything is available on the tips of your smartphone, so everyone is researching so many more things that are trying to make it more relevant to the child. It's not like, "Oh we're going to send the kid down the street "to the nearby preschool" anymore. It's like, "Oh we really want this philosophy "because they're going to excel in that." And really, that's kind of the more subtle things that parents are doing now is because it's so easy to find this information, matching up what's going to make their child succeed in these environments. >> And then how are the preschools, because now that you are saying that, I'm thinking of all these preschools in our neighborhood, that are very, very different, in kind of look and feel and the way they operate. How are you collecting that data, how are they getting you that data? How excited are they to have the opportunity to actually communicate how they're different, rather than whether they're on the main strip to the freeway? >> Yeah, it's actually really exciting, because I think the technology has changed so much since we started Kid Admit. And at first, there was a little bit of hesitancy, because people are like, "What are you doing? "What is this? "Why do you need a technology solution here?" And as technology has changed so drastic in the last few years, all of these schools are very excited to be part of a platform that makes their reach a lot bigger. You don't have to just put up fliers in your neighborhood anymore. You can attract people in a slightly bigger geo code. And there's been a lot of new preschools opening up as well for the demand. And it's nice for them to be able to be a part of a platform and easily get to families really quickly. >> Okay, so just a little bit more on Kid Admit. So you said you're three and a half years old? >> Yes, correct. >> And did you raise some outside funding? >> Yes, we raised 1.15 million dollars over a pre-seed and a seed round, so we're still early stage. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> And what metro areas do you operate in? >> So we're in about 9,000 preschools across 20 states, and we're poised to be nationwide soon. So we are actually here in Phoenix, we just launched here recently, which has been pretty exciting. And yeah, so we actually have listings for more than that many schools, but the ones that partner with us. So we get the information from the state licensing, and then we do our own data, and get more data on our data-mining efforts. After that, we reach out to the schools directly, so they become member schools, and then they can add any information that they need that makes their program special. And with that, once they be part of the platform, then it's easier for parents to navigate the whole process. >> And from how many preschools do generally people kind of search through, what's kind of their tam if you will when they're trying to figure out their preschool? They start with how many and whittle it down to one, what do you kind of see? >> Yeah, so it's interesting. Most people only hear about five, and then you go on Kid Admit and the search in San Francisco, there's 357 preschools so, obviously that's not the pool that they're going to go after, it's probably based on a couple of criteria filters, it will probably whittle down to maybe 10. And so now you're not researching 350, you're getting down to 10. But even if they go a little bit specific, it's usually they'll really evaluate about four to five. >> And what are the top five factors? Not necessarily the value in the factors, but the factors that they're looking at that help drive the decision? >> Yeah, location is definitely a big, big factor. You want to make your life as convenient as possible, and you don't want to have to, if you're dealing with work, and kids, and if you have multiple kids, you want to keep that obviously pretty proximal. And it could be on your way to work too, like you mentioned earlier. Then philosophy, so Montessori, Reggio, is it play based, those, and schedule is a big thing, whether you want part-time or full-time. Interestingly, people talk about price, but ends up being a secondary factor, cause people want what's best for their children, and they want to see what all of those options that are available. >> What is the most surprising factor that you had no idea mattered so much to people as you've gone through this process? >> That they think that it's going to dictate the rest of their child's life on this first educational milestone. And it's just surprising that how it's completely false. And it's just crazy to see how much people still buy into this. >> Right, right. It's like the old Seinfeld episodes right? From Manhattan, and people trying to get in that first, getting in that school, but that's not what you're about at all, you're really about just knowing what the options are and finding the right fit. >> Yeah, we want to like democratize it a little bit, get the access to it. So a lot of people in Manhattan, or even San Francisco hire consultants to help for this, and they're like $15,000 to help you just with preschool. And so you can search Kid Admit for free, you get to see all the information, things that giving access to more families to make better choices for their kids, and it's all about finding a nice environment for your kid, who's going to develop a life-long love of learning. That's the only thing about preschool that makes it great. >> And how did you come up with this idea? >> So I have kids myself, and I went through the process. It was super, super crazy cause Google didn't spit out any results when I did this, my oldest one's seven and a half. And when I was pregnant, people were like, "Are you on the wait list?" I'm like, "I don't even know my child, "how am I going to go and find a preschool at this stage?" So I didn't take that advice, I'm like, "You know what. "I will do this when it's appropriate, "and I feel comfortable." And I did, and then I created this crazy spreadsheet, and cause there wasn't a lot of information available on the internet, so I'd have to call around, and ended up being another full-time job of mine. And once I created this, then a lot of my friends started using it, and using it, and so that was kind of the start of Kid Admit. >> Awesome. So we've had a lot of conversations here over the course of the day, about pivoting and getting involved in tech, and not necessarily being a tech person, and changing career paths. We talked a little bit offline before we came on air, you've got kind of an interesting journey. You started out as a mechanical engineer I think you said, and then got into finance, and now you're doing a kid based, basically marketplace exchange. >> Yes. >> How did that happen? I think I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur, though I didn't quite, was not truthful to myself when I was younger. I became a mechanical engineer. I worked at Ford Motor Company right out of school designing fuel systems, and then I did a lot of other things. Ended up in finance and I kept switching these careers, but I learned all these different skill sets. And all these different things then when you become CEO and start a company, they actually really are very relevant cause you get to, I have to book keep, and manage my own finances for the start-up. I've had to, for when I did financial services, I also cold called. I did that when I started doing early customer development. I did marketing for a medical devices company a long time ago and that's part of it. So all of this journey, as different as it is, it kind of led me to be able to be a generalist to start a company. >> Right, and then what was the tipping point that you said, "Okay, I'm doing it. "I'm going to start this company, I'm going to quit my job and do this?" >> Yeah, so I wanted to leave financial services after 2008. So it's been a-- >> Good timing. >> Yeah, well, but I still stuck onto it for two more years, because in that timeframe, actually four more years, in 2010 we left to start our own wealth management firm, my husband and I, and then I wanted to ramp that up before I could actually formally leave to start my own. So I always wanted knew I did it, but I wanted to have the timing, as well as the idea. >> Right, right. Okay so we're running low on time. So what advice would you give to the budding entrepreneur out there that's got an idea, that's just needs that final little kick out of the nest to go for it? What are some of the learnings that you can share, and advice that you would give them? >> Yeah, you'll never have, you'll never be ready. Just like anything else in life. You just have to kind of take that leap of faith. You're not going to know everything on the journey, and there's something sweet about that. It's something, I kind of miss some of the naitivity I had when I first started this because it keeps you really excited and passionate and relevant in that. And tenacity, resourcefulness, you definitely have to have those things. And just enjoy the journey cause as much as it's a high and low and roller coaster of a start-up experience, you definitely have to enjoy it. And I've gotten to do some really amazing, amazing things and meet some incredible people along the way, and I relish those times. >> Excellent. Well, Tejal thanks for sharing your story with us. >> Well thank you, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. So great story on entrepreneurship. Eventually you've got to jump out of the nest. It's never easy, but as you said, there's never a right time. You just got to go for it, like everything else that's important in life. So thanks for watching, we're here at the Girls in Tech Catalyst Conference. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)