(upbeat techno music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Boomi World 2018. Brought to you by Dell Boomi. >> Good afternoon, welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of Boomi World 2018 from Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier and we're welcoming back to theCUBE one of our alumni Nima Badiey, Head of Technology Ecosystems from Pivotal. Nima, welcome back. >> Thank you for having me back. >> So Pivotal, part of the Dell technologies part of the companies, >> Yeah. >> You guys IPOd recently. And I did read that of the first half 2018, eight of the 10 tech IPOs were powered by Boomi. >> Well, I don't know about that specific. I know that tech IPOs are making a big comeback. We did IPO on the 20th of April, so we've passed out six-month anniversary if you can say. But it's been a distinct privilege to be part of the overall Dell family of businesses. I think what you have in Michael as a leader, who, he has a specific vision, but he's left the independent operating units to work on their own, to find their path through that journey, and to help each other as brethren, as like sisters and brothers. And the fact that Pivotal is here supporting Boomi. That Boomi is within our conference of supporting our customers that we're working together really speaks volumes. I think if you take a look at it, a lot of things happened this week, right? So a couple weeks ago, IBM's acquiring RedHat, this morning VMWare's acquiring Heptio. That's a solid signal that the enterprise transformation and adoption of cloud native model is really taking off. So the new middleware is really all about the cloud native polyglock, multiglock environment. >> And what's interesting, I want to get your thoughts on this because first of all congratulations on the IP, some are saying Pivotal's never going to go public, and they did, you guys were spectacular, great success. But what's going on now is interesting. We're hearing here at this show, as other shows is, cloud scale and data are really at the center of this horizontally scalable cloud poly proposition. Okay great, you mention Kubernetes and Heptio and VM where, that's all great. The question that is how do you compete when ecosystems become the most important thing. You worked at VMware you're at Pivotal. Dell knows ecosystems. Boomi's got an ecosystem. Partners, which is also suppliers and integrators. >> Yeah. >> They integrate and also developers. This is a key competitive advantage. What's your take on that here? >> So I think you touched on the right point. You compete because of your ecosystem, not despite your ecosystem. We can't be completely hedgemonic like Microsoft or Cisco or Amazon can afford to be. And I don't think customers really want that. Customers actually want choice. They want the best options but from a variety of sources. And that's why one of the reasons that we not only invest Dell ecosystem but also in Pivotal's own ecosystem is to cultivate the right technologies that will help our customers on that journey. And our philosophy's always find the leaders in the quadrant. The Cadillac vendors, the Lexus vendors onboard them and the most important thing you can do is, to ensure a pristine customer experience. We're not measuring whether feature A from one partner is better than feature B from another partner. We really don't care. What we care about is we can hand wire and automate what would have been a very manual process for customers, so that, let's say Boomi with Cloud Foundry works perfectly out of the box. So the customers doesn't have to go through and hire consultants and additional external resources just to figure out how two pieces of software should work together, they just should. So when they make that buying decision they know that the day after that buying decision, everything's going to be installed and their developers and their app dev teams and their ops teams can be productive. So that's the power of the ecosystem. >> Can you talk about the relationship between Pivotal and Boomi, because Boomi's been born in the Cloud as start up. Acquired eight years ago. You're part of the Dell Technologies family. VMware's VMware, we know about VMware doing great. You guys doing great. Now Boomi's out there. So how do they factor into and what's the relationship you have with them and how does that work, how do you guys work together? >> Perfect question. So, in my primary role at Pivotal is to manage all of our partner ecosystems, specifically the technology partners. And what I look for are any force multipliers. Any essentially ISVs who can help us accomplish more together than we could on our own. Boomi's a classic example of that. What do they enable? So take your classic customer. Classic customer has, let's say, 100 applications in inventory that they have built, managed, and purchased procured off from shelf-to-shelf components. And roughly 20 or 30% are newish, green field applications, perfect for the cloud native transformation. Most 80% of them or 70% are going to be older, ground field applications that will have to be refactored. But there's always going to be that 15% towards the end that's legacy mainframe. It can't be changed, you cannot afford to modernize it, to restructure it, to refactor it. You're going to have to leave it alone, but you need it. Your inventory systems are there. >> These are critical systems, those people who think legacy as outdated, but they're actually just valued. >> No, they're critically valuable. >> Yes. >> We just cannot be modernized. >> Bingo. >> So a partner like Boomi will allow you to access the full breadth of those resources without having to change them. So I could potentially put Boomi in front of any number of older business applications and effectively modernize them by bridging those older legacy systems with the new systems that I want to build. So let's do an example. I am the Gap and I want to build a new version of our in-store procurement system that runs on my iPhone, that I can just point to a garment and it will automatically put it in my, ya know, check out box. How do I do that? Well I can build all the intelligence. And I can use AI and functions and I can build everything it's out of containers, that's great. But I still have to connect to the inventory system. Inventory system... >> Which is a database. All these systems are out there. >> Somewhere, something. And my developers don't know enough about the old legacy database to be able to use it. But if I put a restful interface using Boomi in front of it and a business connector that's not older XML or kind of inflexible, whatever, solo gateways. Then I have enabled my developer to actually build something that is real. That is customer focused. It is appropriate for that market without being hamstrung by my existing legacy infrastructure. And now my legacy infrastructure is not an anchor that's holding me back. >> You had mentioned force, me and Lisa talk about this all the time on theCUBE, where that scenario's totally legit and relevant because in the old version of IT you have to essentially build inventory management into the new app. You'd have to essentially kill the old to bring in the new. I think with containers and cloud native has shown is you can keep the old and sunset it if you want on your own time table or keep it there and make it productive. Make the data exposeble, but you can bring the cool relevant new stuff in. >> Yeah. >> I think that is what I see and we see from customers, like OK cool, I don't have to kill the old. I'll take care of it on my own timetable versus a complete switching cost analysis. Take down a production system. >> Exactly. >> Build something new, will it work. Ya know cross your fingers. Okay, again and this is a key IT different dynamic. >> It is and it's a realization that there are things you can move and those are immutable. They're simply just monolithic that will never move. And you're going to work within those confines. You can have the best of both worlds. You can maintain your legacy applications. They're still fine, they run most of your business. And still invent the new and explore new markets and new industries and new verticals. And just new capabilities all through and through without having to touch in your back end systems. Without having to bring the older vendors in and say can you please modernize your stuff because my business is dependent and I am going to lose that. I'm going to become the new Sears, I going to become the new Woolworth or whoever. Blockbuster that has missed an opportunity to vector into a new way of delivering their services. >> When you're having customer conversations, Nima, I'm curious, talking with enterprise organizations who have tons of data, all the systems including the legacy, which I'm glad that you brought up that that's not just old systems. There's a lot of business critical, mission critical application running on 'em. Where do you start that conversation with the large enterprise, who doesn't want to become a Blockbuster to your point, and going this is the suite of applications we have, where do we start? Talk to us about that customer journey that you help enable. >> That's great 'cause in most cases the customers already know exactly what they want. It's not the what that you have to have the conversation around, it's the how do I get there. I know what I want, I know what I want to be, I know what I want to design. And it's how do I transform my business fundamentally do an app transformation, enterprise transformation, digital transformation? Where do I begin? And so, ya know, our perspective at Pivotal is, ya know, we're diehard adopters of agile methodology. We truly, truly believe that you can be an agile development organization. We truly believe in Marc Andreessen's vision of software eating the world. Which let's unpack what that means. It just means that if you're going to survive the next 10 years you have to fundamentally become a software company, right? So look at all the companies we work with. Are you an insurance company or are you delivering an insurance product through software? Are you a bank or are you delivering banking product through software? Well, when was the last time you talked to a bank teller? Or the atm, most of your banking's done online. Your computer or your mobile device. Even my check cashing, I don't have to talk to anyone. It's wonderful. Ford Motor Company, do they bend sheet metal and put wheels on it or are they a software company? Well consider that your modern pickup truck has... >> They're an IOT company now. (laughing) (crosstalking) Manufacturing lines. >> That's what's crazy. You have a 150 million lines of code in your pickup truck. Your car, your pickup truck, your whatever is more software than it is anything else. >> But also data's key. I want to get your thoughts since this is super important Michael Dell brought up on the keynote today here at Boomi World was, okay the data's got to stay in the car. I don't need to have a latency issue of hey, I need to know nanosecond results. With data, cloud has become a great use case. With multicloud on the horizon, some people are going to throw data in multiple clouds and that's clear use case, and everyone can see the benefits of that. How do you guys look at this? 'Cause now data needs to be addressable across horizontal systems. You mentioned the Gap and the Gap example. >> That's great, so, one of the biggest trends we see in data is really event streaming. Is the idea that the ability to generate data far out exceeds the ability to consume it. So, what if we treated data as just a river? And I'm going to cast my line and only pick up what I want out of that stream. And this is where CAFCA and companies like Solice and any venturing networks and spring cloud functions and spring cloud data are really coming into play, is acknowledgement that yes we are not in a world where we can store all of the data all the time and figure out what to do with it after the fact. We need timely, and timely is within milliseconds, if not seconds. Action taken on an event or data even coming through. So why don't we modernize around, ya know, that type of data structure and data event and data horizon. So that's one of the trends we see. The second is that there is no one database to rule them all anymore. I can't get away with having oracle and that's my be all, end all. I now have my ESQL and SQL and Mongo and Cassandra and Redis and any other number of databases that are form, fit and function specific for a utility and they're perfect for that. I see graph databases, I see key value stores, I see distributed data warehouse. And so my options as a developer, as a user is really expanding, which means the total types of data components that I can use are also expanding exponentially. And that gives me a lot more flexibility on the types of products that I can build and the services that I can ultimately deliver. >> And that highlights micro services trend, because you have now a multitude of databases, it's not the one database rules them all. They'll be literally thousands of database on censors, so micro service has become the key element to connect all these systems. >> All of it together. And micro services really a higher level of abstraction. So we started with virtual machines and then we went to containers and then we went to functions and micro services. It's on an upward trend necessarily as it is an expansion. Into different ways of being able to do work. So some of my work products are going to be very, very small. They can afford to be ephemeral, but there may be many of them. How do I manage a cluster of millions of these potential work loads? Backing off I can have an ephemeral applications that run inside of containers or I can have ridged fixed applications that have to run inside a virtual machines. I'm going to have all of them. What I need is a platform that delivers all of this for me without me having to figure out how to hand wire these bits and pieces from various different either proprietary or open source kits just to make it work. I'm going to need a 60 to 100 or 200 person team just to maintain this very bespoke thing that I have developed. I'll just pull it off the shelf 'cause this is a solved problem. Right, Pivotal has already solved this problem. Other companies have already solved this problem. Let me start there and so now I'm here. I don't have to worry about all this left over plumbing. Now I can actually build on top of my business. The analogy I'd use is you don't bring furniture with you every time you check into a hotel. And we're telling customers every time you want to move to a different city just for business meeting or for work trip we're going to build you a house and you need to furnish it. Well, that's ridiculous. I'm going to check into a hotel and my expectation is I can check out of any other room and they'll all be the same, it doesn't really matter what floor I'm on, what room I'm in. But they'll have the same facilities, the same bed, the same, ya know, restroom facilities. That's what I want. That's what containers are. Eventually all the services surrounding that hotel room experience will be micro services. >> And we're the work load, the people. >> And we are the work load and we're the most important thing, we are the application, you're right. >> I love that. That's probably best analogy I've heard of containers. Nima, thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE, joining John and me today. And talking to us about what's going on with Pivotal and how you guys are really helping as part of Dell business dramatically transform. >> Been my pleasure. Thank you both. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for watching theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier. We are in Las Vegas at Boomi World '18. Stick around, John and I will be right back with our next guest. (light techno music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hey, welcome to this CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, Host of theCUBE here in Palo Alto, California, for a special conversation with an industry analyst who's been, who travels a lot, does a lot of events, covers the industry, up and down, economically and also some of the big trends, to talk about how the at scale problem that the COVID-19 is causing. Whether it's a lot of people are working at home for the first time, to at scale network problems, the pressure points that this is exposing for what I would call the mainstream world is a great topic. Zeus Kerravala, Founder and Principal Analyst at ZK Research, friend of theCUBE. Zeus, welcome back to theCUBE. Good to see you remotely. We're, as you know, working in place here. I came to the studio for, with our quarantine crew here, to get these stories out, 'cause they're super important. Thanks for spending the time. >> Hi, yeah, thanks, it's certainly been an interesting last couple months and we're probably, maybe half way through this, I'm guessing. >> Yeah, and no matter what happens the new reality of this current situation or mess or whatever you want to call it is the fact that it has awakened what us industry insiders have been seeing for a long time, big data, new networks, cloud native, micro-services, kind of at scale, scale out infrastructure, kind of the stuff that we've been kind of covering is now exposed for the whole world to see on a Petri dish that is called COVID-19, going, "Wow, this world has changed." This is highlighting the problems. Can you share your view of what are some of those things that people are experiencing for the first time and what's the reaction, what's your reaction to it all? >> Yeah, it's been kind of an interesting last couple of months when I talk to CIO's about how they're adapting to this. You know, when, before I was an analyst, John, I was actually in corporate IT. I was part of a business continuity plans group for companies and the whole definition of business continuity's changed. When I was in corporate IT, we thought of business continuity as being able to run the company with a minimal set of services for a week or a month or something like that. So, for instance, I was in charge of corporate technology and financial services firm and we thought, "Well, if we have 50 traders, can we get by with 10", right? Business continuity today is I need to run the entire organization with my full staff for an indefinite period of time, right? And that is substantially different mandate than thinking of how I run a minimal set of services to just maintain the bare minimum business operations and I think that's exposed a lot of things for a lot of companies. You know, for instance, I've talked to so many companies today where the majority of their employees have never worked remote. For you or I, we're mobile professionals. We do this all the time. We travel around. We go to conferences. We do this stuff all, it's second nature. But for a lot of employees, you think of contact center agents, in store people, things like that, they've never worked from home before. And so, all of a sudden, the new reality is they've got to set up a computer in the kitchen or their bedroom or something like that and start working from home. Also for companies, they've never had to think about a world where everybody worked remotely, right? So the VP in Infrastructure would have, the cloud apps they have, the remote access technology they have was set up for a subset of users, maybe 10%, maybe 15%, but certainly not everybody. And so now we're seeing corporate networks get crushed. All the cloud providers are getting crushed. I know some of the conferencing companies, the video companies are having to double, triple capacity. And so I think to your point when you started this, we would have seen this eventually with all the data coming in and all the new devices being connected. I think what COVID did was just accelerate it just to the point where it's exposed to everything at once. >> Yeah, and you know, I have a lot of, being an entrepreneur and done a lot of corporate legal contracts. The word force majeure is always a phrase that's a legal jargon, which means act of God or so to speak, something you can't control. I think what's interesting to your point is that the playbook in IT, even some of the most cutting edge IT, is forecasting some disruption, but never like this. And also disaster recovery and business continuity, as you mentioned, have been practices, but state of the art has been percentages of overall. But disaster recovery was a hurricane, or a power outage, so generators, fail over sites or regions of your cloud, not a change in a new vector. So the disruption is not disruption. It's an amplification of a new work stream. That's the disruption. That's what you're saying. >> Yeah, you know, that's correct. Business continuity used to be very data center-focused. It was, how do I get my power? How do I create some, replicate my office and have 50 desks in here, instead of 500? But now it's everybody working remotely, so I got to have ways for them to collaborate. I have to have ways for them to talk to customers. I have to have ways for them to deliver services. I have to enable people to do what they did in the office, but not in the office, right? And so that's been the big challenge and I think it's been an interesting test for CIO's that have been going through digital transformation plans. I think it's shifted a lot of budgets around and made companies look at the way they do things. There's also the social aspect of a job. People like to go to the office. They like to interact with co-workers. And I've talked to some companies where they're bringing in medical doctors, they're bringing in psychologists to talk to their employees, because if you're never worked from home before, it's quite a big difference. The other aspect of this that's underappreciated, I think, is the fact that now our kids are home, right? >> John: Yeah. (laughter) >> So we've got to contend with that. And I know that the first day that the shelter in place order got put in place for the San Francisco area, a new call, I believe a new version of Call of Duty had just come out. You know, we had some new shows pop up in Netflix, some series continuances. So now these kids who are at home are bored. They're downloading content. They're playing games. At the same time, we're trying to work and we're trying to do video calls and we're trying to bring in multiple video streams or even if they're in classrooms, they're doing Zoom-based calls, that type of thing, or using WebEx or an application like that, and it's played havoc on corporate networks, not just company networks, and so... >> Also Comcast and the providers, AT&T. You've got the fiber seems to be doing well, but Comcast is throttling. I mean, this is the crisis. It's a new vector of disruption. But how do you develop... >> Yeah, YouTube said that they're going to throttle down. Well, I think what this is is it makes you look at how you handle your traffic. And I think there's plenty of bandwidth out there. And even the most basic home routers are capable of prioritizing traffic and I think there's a number of IT leaders I've talked who have actually gone through the steps of helping their employees understand how you use your home networking technology to be able to prioritize video and corporate voice traffic over top. There are corporate ways to do that. You know, for instance, Aruba and Extreme Networks both offer these remote access points where you just plug 'em in and you're connected through a corporate network and you pick up all the policies. But even without that, there's ways to do with home. So I think it's made us rethink networking. Instead of the network being a home network, a WiFi network, a data center network, right, the Internet, we need to think about this grand network as one network and then how we control the quality of a cloud app when the person's home to the cloud, all the way back to the company, because that's what drives user experience. >> I think you're highlighting something really important. And I just want to illustrate and have you double down on more commentary on this, because I think, you know, the one network where we're all part of one network concept shows that the perimeter's dead. That's what we've been saying about the cloud, but also if you think about just the crimes of opportunity that are happening. You've got the hacker and hacking situation. You have all kinds of things that are impacted. There's crimes of opportunity, and there's disruption that's happening because of the opportunity. Can you just share more and unpack that concept of this one network? What are some of the things that business are thinking about now? You've got the VPN. You've got collaboration tools that sometimes are half-baked. I mean, I love Zoom and all, but Zoom is crashing too. I mean, WebEx is more corporate-oriented, but not really as strong as what Zoom is for the consumer. But still they have an opportunity, but they have a challenge as well. So all these work tools are kind of half-baked too. (laughing) >> Well, the thing is they were never designed... I remember seeing in an interview that Chuck Robbins had on CNBC where he said, "We didn't design WebEx to support everybody working from home". It just, that wasn't even a thought. Nowhere did he ever go to his team and say, build this for the whole world to connect, right? And so, every one of the video providers and the cloud collaboration providers have problems, and I don't really blame them, because this is a dynamic we were never expecting to see. I think you brought up a good point on the security side. We, a lot has been written about how more and more companies are moving to these online tools, like Zoom and WebEx and applications like that to let us communicate, but what does that mean from a security perspective? Now`all of sudden I have people working from home. They're using these Web-based applications. I remember a conversation I had about six months ago with one of the world's most famous hackers who does nothing but penetration tests now. He said that the cloud-based applications are his number one entry point into companies and to penetrate them, because people's passwords and things like that are fairly weak. So, now we're moving everything to the cloud. We're moving everything to these SaaS apps, right? And so now it's creating more exposure points. We've got fishers out there that are using the term COVID or Corona as a way to get people to click on links they shouldn't. And so now our whole security paradigm has blown up, right? So we used to have this hard shell we could drop around our company. We can't do that anymore. And we have to start worrying about things on an app-by-app basis. And it's caused companies to rethink security, to look at multi-factor authentication tools. I think those are a lot better. We have to look at Casb tools, the cloud access tools, kind of monitor what apps people are using, what they're not using. Trying to cut down on the use of consumer tools, right? So it's a lot for the security practice to take ahold of too. And you have to understand, even from a company standpoint, your security operations center was built on the concept they pull all their data into one location. SOC engineers aren't used to working remotely as well, so that's a big change as well. How do I get my data analyzed and to my SOC engineers when they're working from home? >> You know, we have coined the term Black Friday for the day after, you know, Thanksgiving. >> Thanksgiving, yeah. >> You know, the big surge, but that's a term to describe that first experience of, holy shit, everyone's going to the websites and they all crashed. So we're kind of having that same moment now, to your point earlier. So I want to read a statement that was on Nima Baidey's LinkedIn. He's at Google now, former Pivotal guy. You probably know him. He had a little graphic that says, "Who led the digital transformation of your company?" It's got a poll with a question mark. "A) Your CEO, B) your CTO, or C) COVID-19"? And it circles COVID-19 and that's the image and that's the meme that's going around. But the reality is it is highlighting it and I want to get your thoughts on this next track of thinking around how people may shift their focus and their spend, because, hey, hybrid cloud's great and multicloud's the next big wave, but screw multicloud. If I can't actually fix my current situation, maybe I'll push off some of the multicloud stuff or maybe I won't. So, how do you see the give and get of project prioritization, because I think this is going to wake everyone up. You mentioned security, clearly. >> Yeah, well, I think it has woken everybody up and I think companies now are really rethinking how they operate. I don't believe we're going to stop traveling. I think once this is over, people are going to hop back on planes. I also don't believe that we'll never go back into the office. I think the big shift here though, John, is we will see more acceptance to hire people out of region. I think that it's proved that you don't have to be in the office, right, which will drive these collaboration tools. And I also think we'll see less use of desktop phones and more use of video means. So now that people are getting used to using these types of tools, I think they're starting to like the experience. And so voice calls get replaced by video calls and that is going to crush our networks in buildings. So we've got WiFi 6 coming. We've got 5G coming, right. We've got lots of security tools out there. And I think you'll see a lot of prioritization to the network and that's kind of an interesting thing, because historically, the network didn't get a lot of C level time, right? It was those people in the basement. We didn't really know what they did. I'm a former network engineer. I was treated that way. (laughing) But most digital organizations now have to come to the realization that they're network-centric, and then so the network is the business and that's not something that anybody's ever put a lot of focus on. But if you look at the building blocks of digital IoT, mobility, cloud, the writing's been on the wall for a while, and I've written this several times. But you need to pay more attention to the network. And I think we're finally going to see that transition, some prioritization of dollars there. >> Yeah, I will attest you have been very vocal and right on point on that, so props to that. I do want to also double amplify your point. The network drives everything, that's clear. I think the other thing that's interesting and used to be kind of a cliche in a pejorative way is the user is the product. I think that's a term that's been coined to Facebook. You know, you're data. You're the product. If you're the product, that's a problem, you know. To describe Facebook as the app that monetizes you, the user. I think this situation has really pointed out that yes, it's good to be the product. The user value and the network are two now end points of the spectrum. The network's got to be kick ass from the ground up, but the user is the product now, and it should be, in a good way, not exploiting. So I think if you're thinking about user-centric value, how my kid can play Call of Duty, how my family can watch the new episode on Netflix, how I can do a kick ass Zoom call, that's my experience. The network does its job. The application service takes advantage of making me happy. So I think this is interesting, right. So we're getting a new thing here. How real do you think that is? Where are we on the spectrum of that nirvana? >> I think we're rapidly approaching that. I think it's been well documented that 2020 was the year that customer experience become the number one brand differentiate, right. In fact, I think it was actually 2018 that that happened, but Walker and Gartner and a few other companies would be 2020. And what that means is that if you're a business, you need to provide exemplary customer service in order to gain share. I think one of the things that was lost in there is that employee experience has to be best in class as well. And so I think a lot of businesses over-rotated the spin away from employee experience to customer experience, and rightfully so, but now they got to rotate back to make sure their workers have the right tools, have the right services, have the right data, to do their jobs better, because when they do, they can turn around and provide customers better experience. So this isn't just about training your people to service customers well. It's about making sure people have the right data, the right information to do their jobs, to collaborate better, right. And there's really a tight coupling now between the consumer and the employee, or the customer and the employee. And, you know, Corona kind of exposed to that, 'cause it shows that we're all connected, in a way. And the connection of people, whether they're the customers or employees or something, that businesses have to focus on. So I think we'll see some dollars sign back to internal, not just customer facing. >> Yeah, well, great insight. And, first of all, we all connect to your great CUBE alumni. But you're also right up the street in California. We're in Palo Alto. You're in San Mateo. You literally could have driven here, but we're sheltering in place. >> We're sheltered in place. >> Great insight and, you know, thanks for sharing that and I think it's good content for people, you know, be aware of this. Obviously they're living in it right now, but I think the world is going to be back to business soon, but it's never going to be the same. I think it's digital... >> No, it'll never be the same. I think this is a real watershed point for the way we work and the way we treat our employees and our customers. I think you'll see a lot of companies make a lot of change. And that's good for the whole industry, 'cause it'll drive innovation. And I think we'll have some innovation come out of this that we never saw before. >> Quick final word for the folks that are on this big wave that's happening. It's reality. It's the current situation now. What's your advice for them as they get on their surfboard, so to speak, and ride this wave? What's your advice to them? >> Yeah, I think use this opportunity to find those weak points in your networks and find out where the bottlenecks are, because I think having everybody work remotely exposes a lot of problems in processes and where a lot of the hiccups happen. But I do think my final word is invest in the network. I think a lot of the networks out there have been badly under-invested in, which I think is why people get frustrated when they're in stadiums or hotels or casinos. I think the world is shifting. Applications and people are becoming network-centric. And if those don't work, nothing works. And I think that's really been proven over the last couple months. If our networks can't handle the traffic and our networks can't handle what we're doing, nothing works. >> You know, you and I could do a podcast show called "No Latency"... >> (mumbles) so it'll be good. >> Zeus, thanks for coming on. I appreciate taking the time. >> No problem, John. >> Stay safe. And I want to follow up with you and get a check in further down the road, in a couple days or maybe next week, if you can. >> Yeah, looking forward to it. >> Thanks a lot. Okay, I'm John Furrier here in Palo Alto Studios doing the remote interviews, getting the quick stories that matter, help you out, and (mumbles) great guest there. Check out ZK Research, a great friend of theCUBE, cutting edge, knows the networking. This is an important area. The network, the users' experience is critical. Thanks for coming and watching today. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (lighthearted music)