>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban Cloud brought to you by Silicon Angle. Welcome back to the live segment of the Cuban cloud. I'm Dave, along with my co host, John Ferrier. John Rose is here. He's the global C T o Dell Technologies. John, great to see you as always, Really appreciate >>it. Absolutely good to know. >>Hey, so we're gonna talk edge, you know, the the edge, it's it's estimated. It's a multi multi trillion dollar opportunity, but it's a highly fragmented, very complex. I mean, it comprises from autonomous vehicles and windmills, even retail stores outer space. And it's so it brings in a lot of really gnarly technical issues that we want to pick your brain on. Let me start with just what to you is edge. How do you think about >>it? Yeah, I think I mean, I've been saying for a while that edges the when you reconstitute Ike back out in the real world. You know, for 10 years we've been sucking it out of the real world, taking it out of factories, you know, nobody has an email server under their desk anymore. On that was because we could put it in data centers and cloud public clouds, and you know that that's been a a good journey. And then we realized, Wait a minute, all the data actually was being created out in the real world. And a lot of the actions that have to come from that data have to happen in real time in the real world. And so we realized we actually had toe reconstitute a nightie capacity out near where the data is created, consumed and utilized. And, you know, that turns out to be smart cities, smart factories. You know, uh, we're dealing with military apparatus. What you're saying, how do you put, you know, edges in tow, warfighting theaters or first responder environments? It's really anywhere that data exists that needs to be processed and understood and acted on. That isn't in a data center. So it's kind of one of these things. Defining edge is easier to find. What it isn't. It's anywhere that you're going to have. I t capacity that isn't aggregated into a public or private cloud data center. That seems to be the answer. So >>follow. Follow that. Follow the data. And so you've got these big issue, of course, is late and see people saying, Well, some applications or some use cases like autonomous vehicles. You have to make the decision locally. Others you can you can send back. And you, Kamal, is there some kind of magic algorithm the technical people used to figure out? You know what, the right approaches? Yeah, >>the good news is math still works and way spent a lot of time thinking about why you build on edge. You know, not all things belong at the edge. Let's just get that out of the way. And so we started thinking about what does belong at the edge, and it turns out there's four things you need. You know, if you have a real time responsiveness in the full closed loop of processing data, you might want to put it in an edge. But then you have to define real time, and real time varies. You know, real time might be one millisecond. It might be 30 milliseconds. It might be 50 milliseconds. It turns out that it's 50 milliseconds. You probably could do that in a co located data center pretty far away from those devices. One millisecond you better be doing it on the device itself. And so so the Leighton see around real time processing matters. And, you know, the other reasons interesting enough to do edge actually don't have to do with real time crossing they have to do with. There's so much data being created at the edge that if you just blow it all the way across the Internet, you'll overwhelm the Internets. We have need toe pre process and post process data and control the flow across the world. The third one is the I T. O T boundary that we all know. That was the I O t. Thing that we were dealing with for a long time. And the fourth, which is the fascinating one, is it's actually a place where you might want to inject your security boundaries, because security tends to be a huge problem and connected things because they're kind of dumb and kind of simple and kind of exposed. And if you protect them on the other end of the Internet, the surface area of protecting is enormous, so there's a big shift basically move security functions to the average. I think Gardner made up a term for called Sassy. You know, it's a pretty enabled edge, but these are the four big ones. We've actually tested that for probably about a year with customers. And it turns out that, you know, seems to hold If it's one of those four things you might want to think about an edge of it isn't it probably doesn't belong in >>it. John. I want to get your thoughts on that point. The security things huge. We talked about that last time at Del Tech World when we did an interview with the Cube. But now look at what's happened. Over the past few months, we've been having a lot of investigative reporting here at Silicon angle on the notion of misinformation, not just fake news. Everyone talks about that with the election, but misinformation as a vulnerability because you have now edge devices that need to be secured. But I can send misinformation to devices. So, you know, faking news could be fake data say, Hey, Tesla, drive off the road or, you know, do this on the other thing. So you gotta have the vulnerabilities looked at and it could be everything. Data is one of them. Leighton. See secure. Is there a chip on the device? Could you share your vision on how you see that being handled? Cause it's a huge >>problem. Yeah, this is this is a big deal because, you know, what you're describing is the fact that if data is everything, the flow of data ultimately turns into the flow of information that knowledge and wisdom and action. And if you pollute the data, if you could compromise it the most rudimentary levels by I don't know, putting bad data into a sensor or tricking the sensor which lots of people can dio or simulating a sensor, you can actually distort things like a I algorithms. You can introduce bias into them and then that's a That's a real problem. The solution to it isn't making the sensors smarter. There's this weird Catch 22 when you sense arise the world, you know you have ah, you know, finite amount of power and budget and the making sensors fatter and more complex is actually the wrong direction. So edges have materialized from that security dimension is an interesting augment to those connected things. And so imagine a world where you know your sensor is creating data and maybe have hundreds or thousands of sensors that air flowing into an edge compute layer and the edge compute layer isn't just aggregating it. It's putting context on it. It's metadata that it's adding to the system saying, Hey, that particular stream of telemetry came from this device, and I'm watching that device and Aiken score it and understand whether it's been compromised or whether it's trustworthy or whether it's a risky device and is that all flows into the metadata world the the overall understanding of not just the data itself, but where did it come from? Is it likely to be trustworthy? Should you score it higher or lower in your neural net to basically manipulate your algorithm? These kind of things were really sophisticated and powerful tools to protect against this kind of injection of false information at the sensor, but you could never do that at a sensor. You have to do it in a place that has more compute capacity and is more able to kind of enriched the data and enhance it. So that's why we think edges are important in that fourth characteristic of they aren't the security system of the sensor itself. But they're the way to make sure that there's integrity in the sense arised world before it reaches the Internet before it reaches the cloud data centers. >>So access to that metadata is access to the metadata is critical, and it's gonna be it's gonna be near real time, if not real time, right? >>Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the important thing is, Well, I'll tell you this. You know, if you haven't figured this out by looking at cybersecurity issues, you know, compromising from the authoritative metadata is a really good compromise. If you could get that, you can manipulate things that a scale you've never imagined. Well, in this case, if the metadata is actually authoritatively controlled by the edge note the edge note is processing is determining whether or not this is trustworthy or not. Those edge nodes are not $5 parts, their servers, their higher end systems. And you can inject a lot more sophisticated security technology and you can have hardware root of trust. You can have, you know, mawr advanced. PK I in it, you can have a I engines watching the behavior of it, and again, you'd never do that in a sensor. But if you do it at the first step into the overall data pipeline, which is really where the edges materializing, you can do much more sophisticated things to the data. But you can also protect that thing at a level that you'd never be able to do to protect a smart lightbulb. A thermostat in your house? >>Uh, yes. So give us the playbook on how you see the evolution of the this mark. I'll see these air key foundational things, a distributed network and it's a you know I o t trends into industrial i o t vice versa. As a software becomes critical, what is the programming model to build the modern applications is something that I know. You guys talk to Michael Dell about this in the Cuban, everyone, your companies as well as everyone else. Its software define everything these days, right? So what is the software framework? How did people code on this? What's the application aware viewpoint on this? >>Yeah, this is, uh, that's unfortunately it's a very complex area that's got a lot of dimensions to it. Let me let me walk you through a couple of them in terms of what is the software framework for for For the edge. The first is that we have to separate edge platforms from the actual edge workload today too many of the edge dialogues or this amorphous blob of code running on an appliance. We call that an edge, and the reality is that thing is actually doing two things. It's, ah, platform of compute out in the real world and it's some kind of extension of the cloud data pipeline of the cloud Operating model. Instance, he added, A software probably is containerized code sitting on that edge platform. Our first principle about the software world is we have to separate those two things. You do not build your cloud your edge platform co mingled with the thing that runs on it. That's like building your app into the OS. That's just dumb user space. Colonel, you keep those two things separate. We have Thio start to enforce that discipline in the software model at the edges. The first principle, the second is we have to recognize that the edges are are probably best implemented in ways that don't require a lot of human intervention. You know, humans air bad when it comes to really complex distributed systems. And so what we're finding is that most of the code being pushed into production benefits from using things like kubernetes or container orchestration or even functional frameworks like, you know, the server list fast type models because those low code architectures generally our interface with via AP, eyes through CCD pipelines without a lot of human touch on it. And it turns out that, you know, those actually worked reasonably well because the edges, when you look at them in production, the code actually doesn't change very often, they kind of do singular things relatively well over a period of time. And if you can make that a fully automated function by basically taking all of the human intervention away from it, and if you can program it through low code interfaces or through automated interfaces, you take a lot of the risk out of the human intervention piece of this type environment. We all know that you know most of the errors and conditions that break things are not because the technology fails it because it's because of human being touches it. So in the software paradigm, we're big fans of more modern software paradigms that have a lot less touch from human beings and a lot more automation being applied to the edge. The last thing I'll leave you with, though, is we do have a problem with some of the edge software architectures today because what happened early in the i o t world is people invented kind of new edge software platforms. And we were involved in these, you know, edge X foundry, mobile edge acts, a crane. Oh, and those were very important because they gave you a set of functions and capabilities of the edge that you kind of needed in the early days. Our long term vision, though for edge software, is that it really needs to be the same code base that we're using in data centers and public clouds. It needs to be the same cloud stack the same orchestration level, the same automation level, because what you're really doing at the edge is not something that spoke. You're taking a piece of your data pipeline and you're pushing it to the edge and the other pieces are living in private data centers and public clouds, and you like they all operate under the same framework. So we're big believers in, like pushing kubernetes orchestration all the way to the edge, pushing the same fast layer all the way to the edge. And don't create a bespoke world of the edge making an extension of the multi cloud software framework >>even though the underlying the underlying hardware might change the microprocessor, GPU might change GP or whatever it is. Uh, >>by the way, that that's a really good reason to use these modern framework because the energies compute where it's not always next 86 underneath it, programming down at the OS level and traditional languages has an awful lot of hardware dependencies. We need to separate that because we're gonna have a lot of arm. We're gonna have a lot of accelerators a lot of deep. Use a lot of other stuff out there. And so the software has to be modern and able to support header genius computer, which a lot of these new frameworks do quite well, John. >>Thanks. Thanks so much for for coming on, Really? Spending some time with us and you always a great guest to really appreciate it. >>Going to be a great stuff >>of a technical edge. Ongoing room. Dave, this is gonna be a great topic. It's a clubhouse room for us. Well, technical edge section every time. Really. Thanks >>again, Jon. Jon Rose. Okay, so now we're gonna We're gonna move to the second part of our of our technical edge discussion. Chris Wolf is here. He leads the advanced architecture group at VM Ware. And that really means So Chris's looks >>at I >>think it's three years out is kind of his time. Arise. And so, you know, advanced architecture, Er and yeah. So really excited to have you here. Chris, can you hear us? >>Okay. Uh, >>can Great. Right. Great to see you again. >>Great >>to see you. Thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. >>So >>we're talking about the edge you're talking about the things that you see way set it up is a multi trillion dollar opportunity. It's It's defined all over the place. Uh, Joey joke. It's Could be a windmill. You know, it could be a retail store. It could be something in outer space. Its's It's it's, you know, whatever is defined A factory, a military installation, etcetera. How do you look at the edge. And And how do you think about the technical evolution? >>Yeah, I think it is. It was interesting listening to John, and I would say we're very well aligned there. You know, we also would see the edge is really the place where data is created, processed and are consumed. And I think what's interesting here is that you have a number off challenges in that edges are different. So, like John was talking about kubernetes. And there's there's multiple different kubernetes open source projects that are trying to address thes different edge use cases, whether it's K three s or Cubbage or open your it or super edge. And I mean the list goes on and on, and the reason that you see this conflict of projects is multiple reasons. You have a platform that's not really designed to supported computing, which kubernetes is designed for data center infrastructure. Uh, first on then you have these different environments where you have some edge sites that have connectivity to the cloud, and you have some websites that just simply don't write whether it's an oil rig or a cruise ship. You have all these different use cases, so What we're seeing is you can't just say this is our edge platform and, you know, go consume it because it won't work. You actually have to have multiple flavors of your edge platform and decide. You know what? You should time first. From a market perspective, I >>was gonna ask you great to have you on. We've had many chest on the Cube during when we actually would go to events and be on the credit. But we appreciate you coming into our virtual editorial event will be doing more of these things is our software will be put in the work to do kind of a clubhouse model. We get these talks going and make them really valuable. But this one is important because one of the things that's come up all day and we kind of introduced earlier to come back every time is the standardization openness of how open source is going to extend out this this interoperability kind of vibe. And then the second theme is and we were kind of like the U S side stack come throwback to the old days. Uh, talk about Cooper days is that next layer, but then also what is going to be the programming model for modern applications? Okay, with the edge being obviously a key part of it. What's your take on that vision? Because that's a complex area certain a lot of a lot of software to be written, still to come, some stuff that need to be written today as well. So what's your view on How do you programs on the edge? >>Yeah, it's a It's a great question, John and I would say, with Cove it We have seen some examples of organizations that have been successful when they had already built an edge for the expectation of change. So when you have a truly software to find edge, you can make some of these rapid pivots quite quickly, you know. Example was Vanderbilt University had to put 1000 hospital beds in a parking garage, and they needed dynamic network and security to be able to accommodate that. You know, we had a lab testing company that had to roll out 400 testing sites in a matter of weeks. So when you can start tohave first and foremost, think about the edge as being our edge. Agility is being defined as you know, what is the speed of software? How quickly can I push updates? How quickly can I transform my application posture or my security posture in lieu of these types of events is super important. Now, if then if we walk that back, you know, to your point on open source, you know, we see open source is really, uh you know, the key enabler for driving edge innovation and driving in I S V ecosystem around that edge Innovation. You know, we mentioned kubernetes, but there's other really important projects that we're already seeing strong traction in the edge. You know, projects such as edge X foundry is seeing significant growth in China. That is, the core ejects foundry was about giving you ah, pass for some of your I o T aps and services. Another one that's quite interesting is the open source faith project in the Linux Foundation. And fate is really addressing a melody edge through a Federated M L model, which we think is the going to be the long term dominant model for localized machine learning training as we continue to see massive scale out to these edge sites, >>right? So I wonder if you could You could pick up on that. I mean, in in thinking about ai influencing at the edge. Um, how do you see that? That evolving? Uh, maybe You know what, Z? Maybe you could We could double click on the architecture that you guys see. Uh, progressing. >>Yeah, Yeah. Right now we're doing some really good work. A zai mentioned with the Fate project. We're one of the key contributors to the project. Today. We see that you need to expand the breath of contributors to these types of projects. For starters, uh, some of these, what we've seen is sometimes the early momentum starts in China because there is a lot of innovation associated with the edge there, and now it starts to be pulled a bit further West. So when you look at Federated Learning, we do believe that the emergence of five g I's not doesn't really help you to centralized data. It really creates the more opportunity to create, put more data and more places. So that's, you know, that's the first challenge that you have. But then when you look at Federated learning in general, I'd say there's two challenges that we still have to overcome organizations that have very sophisticated data. Science practices are really well versed here, and I'd say they're at the forefront of some of these innovations. But that's 1% of enterprises today. We have to start looking at about solutions for the 99% of enterprises. And I'd say even VM Ware partners such as Microsoft Azure Cognitive Services as an example. They've been addressing ML for the 99%. I say That's a That's a positive development. When you look in the open source community, it's one thing to build a platform, right? Look, we love to talk about platforms. That's the easy part. But it's the APS that run on that platform in the services that run on that platform that drive adoption. So the work that we're incubating in the VM, or CTO office is not just about building platforms, but it's about building the applications that are needed by say that 99% of enterprises to drive that adoption. >>So if you if you carry that through that, I infer from that Chris that the developers are ultimately gonna kind of win the edge or define the edge Um, How do you see that From their >>perspective? Yeah, >>I think its way. I like to look at this. I like to call a pragmatic Dev ops where the winning formula is actually giving the developer the core services that they need using the native tools and the native AP eyes that they prefer and that is predominantly open source. It would some cloud services as they start to come to the edge as well. But then, beyond that, there's no reason that I t operations can't have the tools that they prefer to use. A swell. So we see this coming together of two worlds where I t operations has to think even for differently about edge computing, where it's not enough to assume that I t has full control of all of these different devices and sensors and things that exists at the edge. It doesn't happen. Often times it's the lines of business that air directly. Deploying these types of infrastructure solutions or application services is a better phrase and connecting them to the networks at the edge. So what does this mean From a nightie operations perspective? We need tohave, dynamic discovery capabilities and more policy and automation that can allow the developers to have the velocity they want but still have that consistency of security, agility, networking and all of the other hard stuff that somebody has to solve. And you can have the best of both worlds here. >>So if Amazon turned the data center into an A P I and then the traditional, you know, vendors sort of caught up or catching up and trying to do in the same premise is the edge one big happy I Is it coming from the cloud? Is it coming from the on Prem World? How do you see that evolving? >>Yes, that's the question and races on. Yeah, but it doesn't. It doesn't have to be exclusive in one way or another. The VM Ware perspective is that, you know, we can have a consistent platform for open source, a consistent platform for cloud services. And I think the key here is this. If you look at the partnerships we've been driving, you know, we've on boarded Amazon rds onto our platform. We announced the tech preview of Azure Arc sequel database as a service on our platform as well. In addition, toe everything we're doing with open source. So the way that we're looking at this is you don't wanna make a bet on an edge appliance with one cloud provider. Because what happens if you have a business partner that says I am a line to Google or on the line to AWS? So I want to use this open source. Our philosophy is to virtualized the edge so that software can dictate, you know, organizations velocity at the end of the day. >>Yeah. So, Chris, you come on, you're you're an analyst at Gartner. You know us. Everything is a zero sum game, but it's but But life is not like that, right? I mean, there's so much of an incremental opportunity, especially at the edge. I mean, the numbers are mind boggling when when you look at it, >>I I agree wholeheartedly. And I think you're seeing a maturity in the vendor landscape to where we know we can't solve all the problems ourselves and nobody can. So we have to partner, and we have to to your earlier point on a P. I s. We have to build external interfaces in tow, our platforms to make it very easy for customers have choice around ice vendors, partners and so on. >>So, Chris, I gotta ask you since you run the advanced technology group in charge of what's going on there, will there be a ship and focus on mawr ships at the edge with that girl singer going over to intel? Um, good to see Oh, shit, so to speak. Um, all kidding aside, but, you know, patch leaving big news around bm where I saw some of your tweets and you laid out there was a nice tribute, pat, but that's gonna be cool. That's gonna be a didn't tell. Maybe it's more more advanced stuff there. >>Yeah, I think >>for people pats staying on the VMRO board and to me it's it's really think about it. I mean, Pat was part of the team that brought us the X 86 right and to come back to Intel as the CEO. It's really the perfect book end to his career. So we're really sad to see him go. Can't blame him. Of course it's it's a It's a nice chapter for Pat, so totally understand that. And we prior to pack going to Intel, we announced major partnerships within video last year, where we've been doing a lot of work with >>arm. So >>thio us again. We see all of this is opportunity, and a lot of the advanced development projects were running right now in the CTO office is about expanding that ecosystem in terms of how vendors can participate, whether you're running an application on arm, whether it's running on X 86 or whatever, it's running on what comes next, including a variety of hardware accelerators. >>So is it really? Is that really irrelevant to you? I mean, you heard John Rose talk about that because it's all containerized is it is. It is a technologies. Is it truly irrelevant? What processor is underneath? And what underlying hardware architectures there are? >>No, it's not. You know it's funny, right? Because we always want to say these things like, Well, it's just a commodity, but it's not. You didn't then be asking the hardware vendors Thio pack up their balls and go home because there's just nothing nothing left to do, and we're seeing actually quite the opposite where there's this emergence and variety of so many hardware accelerators. So even from an innovation perspective, for us. We're looking at ways to increase the velocity by which organizations can take advantage of these different specialized hardware components, because that's that's going to continue to be a race. But the real key is to make it seamless that an application could take advantage of these benefits without having to go out and buy all of this different hardware on a per application basis. >>But if you do make bets, you can optimize for that architecture, true or not, I mean, our estimate is that the you know the number of wafer is coming out of arm based, you know, platforms is 10 x x 86. And so it appears that, you know, from a cost standpoint, that's that's got some real hard decisions to make. Or maybe maybe they're easy decisions, I don't know. But so you have to make bets, Do you not as a technologist and try to optimize for one of those architectures, even though you have to hedge those bets? >>Yeah, >>we do. It really boils down to use cases and seeing, you know, what do you need for a particular use case like, you know, you mentioned arm, you know, There's a lot of arm out at the edge and on smaller form factor devices. Not so much in the traditional enterprise data center today. So our bets and a lot of the focus there has been on those types of devices. And again, it's it's really the It's about timing, right? The customer demand versus when we need to make a particular move from an innovation >>perspective. It's my final question for you as we wrap up our day here with Great Cuban Cloud Day. What is the most important stories in in the cloud tech world, edge and or cloud? And you think people should be paying attention to that will matter most of them over the next few years. >>Wow, that's a huge question. How much time do we have? Not not enough. A >>architect. Architectural things. They gotta focus on a lot of people looking at this cove it saying I got to come out with a growth strategy obvious and clear, obvious things to see Cloud >>Yeah, yeah, let me let me break it down this way. I think the most important thing that people have to focus on >>is deciding How >>do they when they build architectures. What does the reliance on cloud services Native Cloud Services so far more proprietary services versus open source technologies such as kubernetes and the SV ecosystem around kubernetes. You know, one is an investment in flexibility and control, lots of management and for your intellectual property, right where Maybe I'm building this application in the cloud today. But tomorrow I have to run it out at the edge. Or I do an acquisition that I just wasn't expecting, or I just simply don't know. Sure way. Sure hope that cova doesn't come around again or something like it, right as we get past this and navigate this today. But architect ng for the expectation of change is really important and having flexibility of round your intellectual property, including flexibility to be able to deploy and run on different clouds, especially as you build up your different partnerships. That's really key. So building a discipline to say you know what >>this is >>database as a service, it's never going to define who I am is a business. It's something I have to do is an I T organization. I'm consuming that from the cloud This part of the application sacked that defines who I am is a business. My active team is building this with kubernetes. And I'm gonna maintain more flexibility around that intellectual property. The strategic discipline to operate this way among many of >>enterprise customers >>just hasn't gotten there yet. But I think that's going to be a key inflection point as we start to see. You know, these hybrid architectures continue to mature. >>Hey, Chris. Great stuff, man. Really appreciate you coming on the cube and participate in the Cuban cloud. Thank you for your perspectives. >>Great. Thank you very much. Always a pleasure >>to see you. >>Thank you, everybody for watching this ends the Cuban Cloud Day. Volonte and John Furry. All these sessions gonna be available on demand. All the write ups will hit silicon angle calm. So check that out. We'll have links to this site up there and really appreciate you know, you attending our our first virtual editorial >>event again? >>There's day Volonte for John Ferrier in the entire Cube and Cuba and Cloud Team >>Q 3 65. Thanks >>for watching. Mhm

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World digital experience brought to you by Dell Technologies. Hey, Welcome back, everybody. Jeffrey here with the Cube. Welcome back to our ongoing coverage of Dell Technology. World 2020. The digital experience, Uh, not in person like nothing this year, 2020. But the digital experience allows to do a lot of things that you couldn't do in person. And we're excited to have our next guest. He is Deepak Prasad, the director of product management for Dell Technologies. Cloud deep. Uh, great to see you. >>Hello, Jeff. Nice to meet you as well. >>You too. So let's let's back up, like, 10,000 square feet, cause you know, Cloud came in with a big giant rage. I guess it's been a while now with AWS and Public Cloud. And people are putting their depth tests on there. And, you know, we've seen this explosion of public cloud, and then we have hybrid cloud and multi cloud. And then, you know, basically people figured out that not everything can go to a public cloud. A lot of stuff. Shouldn't some stuffs gonna stay in data centers? for all different reasons, >>but >>basically it's horses for courses. So we're a little ways into this. How are you guys, Adele, really thinking about Cloud and helping your customers think about what cloud is beyond, you know, kind of the hype. >>Well, that's a great question, Jeff. At Dell, we think of Cloud really as an operating model and as an operating experience rather than a destination. So it's interesting that you bring up Public Cloud and Private Cloud, but we take a step back and think of what does that experience really represent? So if you think off, uh, you know what defines that cloud operating model? It's, ah, democratization of technology. Access off resource is through a p. I s through self service portals ability to pay as you go in a very simplified commerce experience and the agility of cloud. You know, the promise off instant availability of infinite scalability. Now, if if you look at you know the landscape around this until now, that has only been delivered in a consistent way by public cloud vendors, which leads people to believe that really cloud is the destination, not an operating model. But we think that we are capable of bringing those experiences those tenets off the cloud operating model to the on premises experience and really taking location out of the conversation. So this really allows our customers to focus mawr on their workloads than visions. They want to drive, and then they can fit there, uh, requirements their application requirements to the location where those resource is our regardless of having toe worry about it. This is public or private. They will get the same operating experience. They will get the same scalability, the same simplified commerce, the same access Thio resource is >>right. Well, let's talk about some of some of those things because, as you said, there's a lot of behaviors that are involved in cloud and cloud operating. You know, one of the behaviors that I think gave the public cloud an early leg up was just simply provisioning, right? Simply, if somebody needs some capacity, they need some horsepower to get interesting. It would be tested in the early days. No, they didn't have to provision. They didn't have to put in an order with I t and wait for so long to get a box assigned to them or purchased or whatever, right? They just swipe the credit card and went, How have you kind of help People have that kind of ease of use ease of, uh, he's of spin up piece of creation on what the right verb is because I think that's a really core piece of what enabled early cloud adoption. >>No, absolutely, you're spot on. And that was a big part of it that if somebody needed resource is instead of waiting for weeks and months, they could go on and and sign up for those resource and get almost instantaneous access. And we believe that what we're doing in this area is really transforming the business. Today. We can deliver resource is to customers in their data center in 14 days and really are aggressively looking to cut that down further. So what this really means is not just shipping Resource is in 14 days, but actually delivering a cloud experience in the customer's data center or of cola location, whatever, you know, location of their choice in 14 days and making that available to the customers, not just through the traditional procurement process. But we're actually very proud to announce the cloud Council, the Dell Technologies Cloud Council, through which customers can, in a self service way, order those ordered those resource is and have it show up and be operational in their environment in 14 days. So we're really bringing that speed of cloud to the on premise experience, >>right? So how how does it actually work? Do you pre? Do you pre ship some amount of capacity beyond what you believe is currently needed just to kind of forward que you will, if you will capacity. How does it work from from both the implementation strategy in terms of the actual compute and storage capacity, as well as on kind of the purchasing peace? Because those air to kind of very >>different work flows? No, that's a That's a great question. So for us, our strength are really in supply chain management that allows us to build capabilities across the world in areas from where we can ship the customers almost on the on demand basis. So as soon as we get in order that the customer needs a probably probably cloud deployment in a certain location, were able to mobilize those resource is from those locations and have it instance she hated in customers environ. So it's really built a strength off over the years off optimizing supply chain, if you will, and just bring taking that to the next level off. >>Okay, so we don't, >>uh environment we said. Yeah, >>no problem. I was gonna say the another great characteristics of cloud right is is spinning up, which we hear about all the time versus spinning down and write. The easiest example is always use. If you're running, you know, some promotion. If your pizza hut you're running a promotion for the Super Bowl, obviously, right? Your demand for that thing is gonna be huge. You want to spin up to be able to take advantage of all the people cash in their coupon, and then when the Super Bowls over, >>you >>want to spend those resource is down because you're not going to necessarily need that capacity. How do you guys accomplish that type of flexibility in your solution? >>So in our subscription model, we have different ways to address customer environment. So we allow customers to start very small and then and then grow the subscription as the requirements growth and the key thing of our subscription, which is really unique, is the ability to quote Terminate. So, for example, if if a customer started off on the three year subscription with the, uh resource is for, say, 100 virtual machines and somewhere along the way they needed to add resource is for 50 more virtual machines, so they will pay for the 150 virtual machines. But that extra 50 virtual machines does not create an orphan or a child subscription. At the end of three years, everything terminates together, so it really gives them flexibility with, you know, ability to start small and not have to worry about vendor lock in. And now we started off with sort of a reserved instance type off subscription model. But we're definitely bringing usage based models as well, which allows more, even more flexibility with respect to speeding up and speeding down. Right. >>And then what are some of the real specific reasons that people go for this type of solution versus a public cloud where some of the rial inherent advantages of doing this within my own infrastructure, my own data center, my own, you know, kind of virtual four walls, if you will. >>Yeah, you know, we strongly believe that the decision should really be guided by workload requirements. There's certain workloads that work really well in on premises environment. For example, you could take virtual desktop environments V. D. I. That works really well from a performance standpoint in In on premise, environment versus a public cloud environment. Similarly, there are other workloads were not public cloud deniers that that are best suited for public cloud. But it's really it should be something that's that comes from understanding your application. Understanding the leighton see requirements, understanding the data requirements for those applications. You know, what are your egress? Uh, issues. Or, you know, uh, the profile off the workload that you're trying to implement That should really be the driving force in where the workload this place >>and then, uh, tell us a little bit about the partnership with VM Ware because that's a huge asset that you have, you know, now you know, basically side by side and you can leverage the technology as well as a lot of the assets that are envy. And where how does that change? The way you guys have taken the Dell Cloud platform to market >>it really is a a differentiating factor for us. From a technology standpoint, it allows us to bring the best of both worlds best off off the hardware infrastructure as well as the best off the cloud. Stack the cloud software infrastructure together in one cohesive and and well developed package. So, uh, the Dell Technologies Cloud Platform from a technology standpoint is implemented with our VX rail appliances, which is a hyper converge infrastructure as well as VM ware clad foundation from a software standpoint. Now the code developed and jointly engineered capabilities allow for unique, unique feature off. Remember Cloud Foundation, where it can do lifecycle management off the entire stack, both the hardware and the software from a single interface. So it understands Vieques rails and understands the different form where levels and the X, where manager software versions etcetera. And then it would automatically select what is the best and well tested and supported software bundle that could be deployed without causing, you know, typical issues with version mismatches and trying to chase down different hardware compatibility, matrices, etcetera. All of those are eliminated, so it's a integrated lifecycle management experience. That's great. E. I'm sorry I have >>a little bit, a little bit of a lot of here, so I I apologize. >>I >>was just gonna say you've been at this for a while. Your product, you know, product management. So you're really thinking about speeds and feeds and you're thinking about roadmap and futures? I wonder if you can share your perspective on this evolution from kind of this race of to pure public cloud to this. This big discussion I think we had packed Elson. You're talking about a hybrid cloud back at being where 2013. So then, you know kind of this hybrid cloud and multi cloud and really kind of this maturation of this space as we as we've progressed for Ah, while now probably 10 years. >>Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, majority of our customers live in a multi cloud world. They have resource is that they consumed from one or more multi hyper sorry, uh, public cloud vendors and they have one or more on premise vendors as well, For their resource is and managing that complex environment across multiple providers with different skill set different tools, different sls. While it sounds really interesting to, you know, have workload drive your your deployment and place the workloads where they're best suited. It does prevent. It does present a challenge off managing a complex and and getting even more complex by the day, multi cloud environment. And that's where we think we have an advantage. Uh, based on some of the work that we're doing with the Dell Technologies Cloud console to bring a true multi cloud experience to our customers. Not one of the benefits of not being a, you know, a public cloud provider is that we are agnostic toe. All public cloud providers were fully accepting that certain workloads need to live in those environments. And through our cloud council, we will make it easy for customers to manage not only their on premises, assets and on premises. Cloud resource is, but also cloud resource is that reside in multiple public cloud vendors? >>That's good. Yeah, because it helps, right, because they've got stuff everywhere. It's like that, you know, there is no del technology, right? There's a lot of there's a lot of people that work there. There's a lot of project. There's a lot of, you know, kind of pieces to that puzzle. I wonder too. If you could share your perspective on kind of application modernization, right, That's always another big, you know, kind of topic. You should You should you take those old legacy APS. And could you should you try to rebuild them in, um, or cloud native way using containers and and all this flexibility and deploy them or, you know, which one. Should you just leave alone right there, running fine. They've been running fine for a while. They've got some basic core functionality that may be do or don't need toe to kind of modernize if you will. And maybe those resources should be spent on building in a new applications and new kind of areas of competitive differentiation. When you're working with their clients, how do you tell them to think about at modernization? >>Yeah, we looked at it from a business requirement standpoint. Off how what end goals. A customer trying to achieve through that application. And in some cases, you know, on you cover the spectrum, right there. Some cases modernization just means swapping out the hardware and putting it, putting that application on a more modern, more powerful hardware. At the other end, it z you know, going toe assassin model off, you know, everything available through through a cloud application. And in between those two extremities, there's, you know, virtualization that is re factoring this continual ization and micro services based implementation. But it comes down to understanding why that application is meant to deliver for who and what business requirements and business objectives that fulfills. That's how we use as a guiding principle on how to position application modernization to customers. >>All right, that's super helpful, because I'm sure that's a big topic. And, you know, there's probably certain APS that you just should not. You just shouldn't touch. You should probably just even Malone. They're running just fine. Let them do their thing. All >>right, fine. I'm sorry. No. Is this interesting? I was a conversation with the customer just earlier today where they have a portion off their infrastructure of some applications that they absolutely wanted to leave alone and and just change out the underlying hardware. But there are other applications where they really want to adopt, continue ization and re factor those out, rewrite those applications so that they can have more scalability and more flexibility around that. So it really is is determined by the needs. Yeah. >>Um so last question, del Tech world this year was a digital experience, like all the other shows that we've seen here in 2020 just But it's a huge event, right? A big, big show, and we're excited to be back to cover it again. But I'm curious if there's some special announcements within such a big show. Sometimes things get lost a little bit here in there, but any special announcements You want to make sure that get highlighted that people may have missed within this kind of see if content over the last several days >>22 major things that that I'm very excited to share with you One is Dell Technologies Cloud platform. We actually discussing and talking about Dell Technologies cloud platform in the concept off instant capacity blocks. So in the past, we talked about it with respect to notes. Uh, you know, adult technology cloud platform. You can have, you know, so many notes in it to power your your on premises. Cloud resource is but really have changed the conversation and look into how cloud customers air consuming those resource is and we really want to drive focus to that and introduced the concept of instance Capacity blocks instances are think of it as a workload profile, you know, CPU and memory put together and then, uh, in different combinations in a pre defined way to address different workload needs. So this really changes the conversation for our customers that they don't have to worry about designing or or speaking out the hardware platforms, but really understand how many resource is they need, how many, how much you know, processing power, how much memory, how much stories they need and they define their requirements was in those terms, and we will deliver those instance capacity blocks to them in their data centers. So behind the scenes is built by best in class. Uh, you know, hardware from Vieques rails and best in class software from being where, but it's really delivered in terms off instant capacity blocks. The second interesting thing that I wanna share with you and I profession a few times is Dell Technologies Cloud console. We're building this single pane of glass to manage our customers entire journey from on premises to multi cloud hybrid cloud with consistency off. How you can discover services how you can order services and how you can grow your the manager footprint. So those are a couple things from adult technology standpoint that we're really excited to share with people. >>Well, congratulations. I know you've been busting your tail for for quite a while on these types of projects, and it's nice to be able to finally release him out to the world. >>Well, it's just my pleasure. Alright. Thank you very much. >>Well, thank you for stopping by again. Congratulations. And will continue the ongoing coverage of Dell Technology World 2020. The digital experience. I'm Jeff Frick. He's to Park Prasad. You're watching the Cube. See you next time. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios (upbeat music) in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi, and welcome to a special CUBE conversation. I'm Stu Miniman, coming to you from our Boston area studio, and really happy to welcome to the program to dig into some of the latest on what's going on in the multi-cloud ecosystem. First of all, coming back to the program, not too far from where I'm sitting, Joe CaraDonna. He is the Vice President of Engineering Technologies, with Dell Technologies, and joining him, someone he knows quite well, is Rich Sanzi, who's Vice President of Engineering at Google Cloud. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining. >> Great to be here, Stu. >> Thank you. >> All right, so Joe, we've been watching Dell Technologies, how the cloud portfolio and solution has been maturing, and working with the ecosystem. Maybe set the table for us, what's Dell doing with cloud? Why are we sitting here with the ? >> Well, we're here to talk about our OneFS for Google Cloud offering. We did something really special with Google here. We brought together the power and scale of our OneFS file system, along with the economics and the simplicity of public cloud, and together, I think, what we did is define a new standard for scalable file in public cloud, where we have a game-changing performance and capacity. We have a full range of enterprise-grade data management capabilities, and we enable real hybrid cloud, and open up new use cases for our customers. >> Excellent, thanks Joe for setting the table on that. Rich, let's pull you into the conversation. Before we go into the Google thing, give us a little bit about your background. You've been in storage, as I hinted at. You worked with Joe before, and tell us about your role inside of Google. >> Yeah, so I actually joined Google a few years ago, responsible for storage, and storage for all of Google, in addition to Google Cloud. And then, you know, big company things. We've been growing rapidly, and an opportunity opened up where I could be much more engaged on the Compute side, and so I'm responsible for Compute, the IaaS infrastructure for Google Cloud Engine. So it's my pleasure to be here and support Joe and Dell Technologies in the launch of OneFS on Google Cloud. >> Yeah, Rich, I'd like to come back to you on something, 'cause when you look at cloud, for many years it was cloud versus, you know, taking over the world, destroying everything before it. And especially, you look at Compute, or storage specifically, people have a little bit of a hard time wrapping their heads around, where my application lives. Does it just live one place? Are my applications going a little bit hybrid there? I look back, you know the disclosure, I worked at EMP for years. You know that storage is complicated and diverse, that's why we have file, block, and object. We have lots of different types of solutions out there. There's never been a silver bullet that says, "Okay, 90% of the people can use this one thing "for everything." So Rich, let's start with you. Cloud definitely has changed the discussion of storage, but I feel like I've seen the enterprise solutions looking more like the hyperscalers, and the hyperscale solution blurring the lines with what was traditionally happening in the data center. Do you agree with some of that? >> Oh yeah, absolutely. I think it's really nice when you control the horizontal and the vertical, and you can adapt your application stack, but that's just not the reality where we are today. The reality is that a cloud vendor, working with customers who bring their workloads in the cloud, have to be able to support all of the best-in-class types of storage that people are using. You're absolutely right, we're using cloud, or sorry, we're using objects, we're using block, we're using file. One of the great pieces of this, is that in the file space, you really need scalable file to go along with your scalable compute. >> Excellent, so-- >> Yeah, and I'll just add-- >> Please, go ahead Joe. >> Yeah, I mean, our customers, for a long time, have been asking, our Isilon customers in particular, asking for a long time to bring this type of capability to the cloud. They want the scalability of the elastic compute in the GPUs. They also want the OpEx model, right? And they want to be able to bring the high performance compute workloads to the cloud, but they need a scalable file system that can keep up with the demand, and that's what we set out to solve for. >> Excellent, so Joe you mentioned that the Isilon piece. You know, we've watched what has happened with that. You know, Isilon has always been software at the core and highly scalable, so we'd like you both, Joe you teed it up there, but Rich, why is this important for Google Cloud customers, and how's it different from, maybe, how they were doing things in the past? >> Well, I think one of the things that I think I'm really excited about, is that this enables customers to leverage the cloud, and not make a ton of changes on their server side. So it really allows them to preserve their investment, and their applications, and the way that they think about storage, and the way they think about how that scales and performs. So that, for me, is a, let's make it easy for customers to consume cloud, rather than make it a hurdle, and that's my view. >> Yeah, and Joe, help frame this for us a bit. You know, we watched Dell Technologies recently had the Power Store announcement. A lot of discussion about cloud native architectures, moving to micro-services. Google's one of the earliest and most prominent examples of innerized architectures out there. So, where does the file solution fit in this whole discussion that customers have about modernization of their applications, and the journey that they're going on? >> Yeah, well, not all applications lend themselves well to object. They need file semantics, as well as the performance characteristics that come along with that, in terms of throughput and latencies. But even beyond that, what our customer's looking for is the data management capability, right? Whether it's snapshots, or the multi-protocol data access for NFS, or SMB, or even HDFS. And they're looking for replication, native replication, so they can have their Isilon systems in the data center, replicate their data directly into the file service of the cloud so they can actually operate on that data, and then there's things that we take for granted now, at least in the data center, of that high availability and that high durability, that storage arrays deliver. So, it's a combination of things that make it attractive for customers, that open up these new workloads, especially in terms of a high performance compute. >> Excellent, you talked a bit about some of the reasons why customers wouldn't want file. Of course, scale is one of those things we've been talking about for many years. Scale means different things to many people. There's few companies that know scale better than Google, so Rich, talk a little bit about scalability, performance, what these types of evolutions mean, and what you're hearing from customers. >> Certainly from a scale perspective, things like objects and object store is super scalable. It's also, you know, requires application changes, to really make use of. Customers are really looking for scalable solutions that enable them to bring their existing applications to cloud, and not have to make a ton of changes to it. That's one of the things I think is great about the Dell offering, is that it is a full-fidelity solution that has the performance and scale of what customers are expecting from their on-premise, and then when we wire that up with the Google network into our Google Cloud compute regions, we get very high performance, and very high fidelity, low latency as a result. We think that that removes potential headaches that customers may have when they bring big applications in the HBC space, and related high performance computing space in the cloud. >> Great, and Joe, is all this available now? Tell us a little bit about availability. What do you expect the demand to be for this solution? >> Well, I expect the demand to be great, right? The kind of workloads we're talking about here cut across a wide range of verticals. So everything from whether it's like sciences for genomics research, oil and gas for seismic data processing, media and entertainment for video editing and rendering, or even finishing, automotive telemetry data that requires processing and scale, and EDA. So, I think it hits upon a wide variety of use cases and verticals, and we've even structured our pricing and our tiers to make it more accessible for use cases from high performance, all the way down to even archival. >> So, maybe just to clarify, this is GA today? >> Yeah, yes, it is GA. (laughs) >> Okay, excellent. >> Beta is behind 'em. >> Appreciate that, and how does, you mentioned flexibility on pricing. How much of this is what's available from Google, what's available from Dell? How does that relationship and go-to-market work together? >> Yeah, well it's a native service in Google. You can provision directly from the Google Portal. You can manage your file systems directly from the Google Portal, and the billing is integrated. So you get one bill from Google, whether it's for our OneFS file service, or any of Google's native services. >> Excellent, Rich, we'd love to hear, talk about from the Google side, the ecosystem. I know last year, I was at the Google Next event, really saw strong demand from the partner community. They're looking to work with Google, many have worked with Google for many years. What kind of feedback have you been getting and how this fits into the overall solution? >> So, from a partner perspective, one of the things that we really want to enable our partners, is to bring their services onto our platform, and to integrate them tightly as if they were a Google offering, and that's so things like the integrated billing, the provisioning from the Google Portal, things like that are core tenets for us for helping our customers and our partners' customers easily consume services in the cloud. So, sort of one of the P-zero requirements, from my perspective, for our product offering here, was that in fact it was just integrated into the Google Cloud platform, and that it would be discoverable and easily usable by customers. So I think that enables partners to deliver a first-class service on our platform. >> Yeah, I mean, Rich, absolutely. Some of the feedback I've gotten from the ecosystem, is, how do they put it? They say, "Google kind of puts you through the ringer. "By the time you get through that, "it is going to work." And of course, we know, Google's doing that to make sure that there are good, reliable, strong services by the time the end customer gets them. All right, Joe-- >> Yes, and-- >> (laughs) Go ahead, yeah. >> I was going to say, you know, delivering these services, and delivering them reliably, it's a multi-company partnership, but we understand that at the end of the day, the customer wants to be assured that there is, they have one contact for problems with the service, and so that's where Google very much wants to be that primary contact, 'cause who knows where the issues could be. Are they in the data center, or are they in the network, or are they on the customer side? We feel responsibility to front (audio distorts). >> Yeah, absolutely. So, Joe, I guess, final thing for you. Talk about the Dell Technologies Google Cloud relationship, why that's important, what differentiates it from some of the many other partnerships that Dell has. >> Yeah, sure, before I touch on that, I want to talk about, you mentioned scale, and scale means different things to different people. And when we're talking about scale here, capacity's one element of that, and we certainly scale that way, but performance is the other way. And ESG did a performance study on the OneFS file service that we're offering, and they fired up the biozone benchmark, which fired up over 1000 cores in Google, running NFS load to the file system. They sized the file system at 2 petabytes, which seems large, and it is, but you can scale much larger than that with our service, and their results on throughput was 200 gigabytes per second on the read, and 100 gigabytes per second on the write. Now, these are game changing numbers, right? It's numbers like that that enable compute-intensive, high performance workloads in Google Cloud, and we're opening that up. And it's also important to note that this is a scalable file system, so if you want to double those throughput numbers, you just double the capacity of your file system. So that's the power of scale that we're delivering here. And our file system can scale up to 50 petabytes, so a lot of runway there. As far as the partnership with Google goes, I mean, Google's been great. Their infrastructure is amazing. In order to hit those kind of performance numbers, your head goes to compute and the file system, but there's also a network in there, and to hit those kind of numbers, Google had to supply a two terabyte per second network, and they were able to supply the compute and the network with ease, and without hiccup. So it's together that we're solving for the compute, network, and storage equation, and that we can deliver a holistic solution. And lastly, I would just point out, the engineering teams work great bringing that cloud native experience into that Google Portal, really simplifying user experience. So, they can provision and manage the systems directly from the Portal, as well as unifying the billing. So I think the partnership's been great, and it's going to be interesting to see how our customers use the service to accelerate their cloud journey. >> Well, Joe and Rich, thank you so much for the updates. Congratulations on GA of this, and definitely look forward to hearing the customer journeys as they go on. >> Thank you, Stu. >> All right, thank you. And Rich, thank you for your partnership. >> Yeah, your welcome, Joe. Thank you, as well. >> All right, be sure to check out thecube.net for all the coverage, the virtual events that we're participating, as well as the back catalog of interviews that we've done. I'm Stu Miniman, and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies World, Digital Experience, brought to you by Dell Technologies. >> Welcome to theCUBE's continuing coverage of Dell Technologies World 2020, The Digital Experience. It was last week, we're going to have some continued conversations here. I've got a couple of guests joining me. One is an alumni. That's Jen Felch, the Chief Digital Officer and CIO at Dell Technologies. Jen, welcome back to the virtual CUBE. >> Thank you. And joining Jen is Deepak Patil the SVP and GM of Dell Technologies Cloud. Deepak, welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you very much Lisa. Excited to be here. >> So the event was last week. It was huge. We know that. And, of course, challenging in the fact that we're also used to being surrounded by thousands and thousands of people in Las Vegas and thousands and thousands of partners, but it's still a great opportunity for Dell Technologies to engage its customers and its partners in the ecosystem. We heard a lot, Deepak, last week about this shift from Dell to deliver as a service. This is what Project APEX powered by Cloud Console. What can you tell us about that? >> Absolutely, Lisa, and what an exciting week it was. We did announce Project APEX at the Dell Technologies World. We are very excited about it. Project APEX marks a strategic milestone for us and our company in three specific areas. Number one is we are on a path to significantly accelerate our transformation into an as a service world. Number two, we are investing in radically simplify the way our customers engage with us. Discover, purchase, manage offers from us. And number three is we are continuing our commitment to provide more flexibility, more choice to our customers. And to make it happen, Project APEX essentially brings all the efforts across the entire Dell Technologies from product development to services, to go to market motions, marketing, finance under the Project APEX umbrella. It's a significant endeavor and we are really excited about it. Of course- >> Companies, oh go ahead, sorry. >> I'm sorry. Of course the Cloud Console that you mentioned is a key component of realizing the Project APEX Division and taking Project APEX to our customers. We are in the public preview of the Cloud Console. Using the Cloud Console with a few clicks, our customers can browse through a catalog of cloud services from us, as well as our partners using a self-serve immersive experience, they can then purchase products like the Dell Technologies Cloud Platform subscription. IT professionals then can provision and deploy workloads, including hybrid solutions like VMware Tanzu. Our customers can then manage and monitor workloads, and using real time insights and data, they can take actions like extending and expanding the system when the capacity is running low. As you know, we also announced storage as a service offering, but an offering like storage as a service using Cloud Console, our customers can see real time insights and cost breakdowns by the teams or cost centers. So, in many ways, the cloud Console really brings the power of Project APEX and the entire cloud operating model to our customer's fingertips. We're very excited about it. >> Lot of work there. So one the things I remember talking Dell Technologies World 2019 about the big digital transformation that Dell Technologies was undergoing. Deepak, you mentioned from a Project APEX perspective, this acceleration of transformation. Jen, over to you, as the Chief Digital Officer and the CIO, how has your team been able to enable this shift to the as a service model to facilitate the self-service and all of the capabilities that Deepak talked about? What's that been like? >> Well, it's been pretty exciting from a couple fronts is, you know, we've always had some aspect of as a service in our offering, whether that is software, our DFS organization, or, you know, as funny as it might sound, our actual services organization is certainly as a service. But as Deepak mentioned, and what our customers tell us, is that let's do more of that. Let's take the broad portfolio of technical solutions and services that we have today and make them simple, consistent, give IT leaders and organizations choice. And so, as the internal team, internal IT team, we play two roles. One is to, we're an internal customer. We're a very large customer of all of the Dell technology products and solutions. And so, we get to offer a lot of feedback about how we would like to work, what we've been doing to really innovate in terms of how we bring things together. And mostly we get to be those early adopters for our product groups in groups like, like Deepak's, which is wonderful to be able to give that early feedback and contribute to great solutions. The second part of it is actually doing the enablement of as a service of how, what are the underlying components that go into the engagement platform that Deepak mentioned, the Cloud Console. How does that leverage the scale of Dell, yet create those really simple consistent, transparent choices for our customers? So our teams get to sit side by side in terms of how we develop these solutions and how we're bringing Project APEX to life, both as a customer and as a development partner, so that we can really bring that together for our customers. And I'm pretty excited about using the solutions. We get to, you know, be involved with it every day. And I can't wait until it's running even more of our infrastructure internally. >> Big, big effort. Deepak, let's come back to you and talk about the market. As we know, this is a very competitive market, congested. You talked about some of the other things that we talked about on theCUBE as well for Dell technologies, world storage as a service. With this landscape that is highly competitive and has been for quite some time with this new strategy, Project APEX, what part of the market, or parts, is Dell going after? >> Absolutely. And just one comment on what Jen said. The work that Jen's team and my team are doing sitting side by side is an example, and just one of the many examples, but a shining example of how we are putting the power of unified Dell technologies behind this effort. Going back to your question, Lisa, we are in what we call it the fourth industrial revolution or whatever you want to call it. We are in a massive shift to a simple, flexible and an operating model full of choices with respect to this as a service cloud transformation, across the industry. Over the next few years, whoever essentially captures the market is going to have to deliver three core promises to our customers. Number one, is we know that we're in the middle of a multi-cloud hybrid cloud world. Any service provider, any cloud provider that eliminates the seams across different cloud environments and makes a multi-cloud experience truly consistent and simple and modern and seamless is going to have a massive advantage. Number two, customers' workforce are going to be all over the place. Good portion of their workforce are going to be in their data centers, good portions of workloads are going to be on Edge, And then are going to be good portions of workloads that are going to be in public cloud. Anybody who meets customers where they're at so that customers don't have to massively invest, invest massively in re-engineering and the VR protector and refactoring, but still enjoy the benefits of this new cloud operating model, from performance and reliability to scalability and efficiency, with the minimum possible efforts, is going to create a significant value proposition. And number three, anybody who essentially focuses on outcomes and experiences and workloads, rather than products and specific offers is going to have a significant benefit. And the work we're doing under the umbrella of Project APEX essentially delivers on all three of those promises. As I mentioned, we radically and massively simplify and eliminate the seams across different cloud environments. We focus on outcome based conversation and with the work that we're doing on with VMware on our massive 4,200 plus people partner, 4,200 plus partner ecosystem, we are working to meet customers where they're at instead of forcing them to re-engineer and re-architect and move to cloud instead of the cloud coming to meet them wherever they're at. So we do believe that the strengths that we traditionally have always had with respect to the broad technology and product and services portfolio, 30 plus thousand sales force, 4,200 plus people partner ecosystem, and a massive asset through the partner, just the best 20 plus year old partnership we have with NEOM brand, and the broad product, as well as partner portfolio at NEOM. We even like a chances in terms of helping each and every customer we work with fundamentally modernize their own portfolio, help their customers and make significant progress on their digital transformation journey. >> We definitely know that there was a big engine, a lot of momentum behind the size and the scale of Dell itself. So going back to you, Jen, if we think about some of the things that we heard again at Dell Technologies World, when we spoke with Jeff Clark, who's the COO and Vice Chairman of Dell technologies. Just in the last couple of weeks, he talked about six areas and IT innovation that Dell is focusing on. and I wanted to get your thoughts on these. Pirate Cloud, Edge, 5G, AI and ML, data management and security. In your opinion, Jen, what of this suite of six areas of IT innovation sets Dell up for success? >> That's a good question. And you know, I would say these six areas are not foreign to us. They're not necessarily brand new. They're all sit kind of right next to areas where we have very deep expertise. And so I think about the fact that, you know, we design, manufacturer, service and manage IT solutions all over the world. Large customers, small customers, consumers. We have an incredible breadth and reach of what we're doing today both from the solutions that we provide and the experiences that our customers are driving. Whether that is, you know, extending work from home or learn from home or they're, you know, going through a digital transformation as Deepak talked about, trying to really simplify their ecosystem. Oftentimes it's Dell, that's sitting right there with them. So we have an opportunity, I think unlike many others, to bring the technical expertise from the products and services that we offer, along with the experience from really working with the best and brightest of customers, as well as this ecosystem of partners 42,000, I mean, Deepak, that's a really big number, but that creates a real opportunity for innovation as things like 5G really emerge. And we have the power behind the data management analytics to support ML and AI. So, you know, when I step back and, and look at kind of what sets us up for success, it's not something that just happened yesterday. It's something that's been happening at Dell for a very long time, which is the deep technical expertise and really close engagements with our customers so that we can focus on bringing technology to solve the problems of today and set us up for the future. I know, as an IT leader, I appreciate the fact that solutions from Dell are very open. So they give us a lot of flexibility to not only provide a solution for today, but solutions that will last over time, that we have some flexibility. We don't have an incredible lock that we can never get out of it. So I am very optimistic about the future and look forward to these innovations and really, we have solutions in most, all of these areas today. I know they'll just continue to get better and better. >> Jen, last question for you before we wrap, because of course, Project APEX that Deepak talked about and kind of dug into, massive undertaking, of course, during the time of a massive change to the entire world, where suddenly, this shift to work from home was a rapid pivot. I can imagine as your teams, you talked about both of your teams really kind of not co-locating physically anymore but being able to work together. How did you manage that, and to enable the team to stay on track, to deliver this for Dell Technologies World? That's a big, it's a big task. >> It is a big task, but we have great teams. And, you know, I think as we've, we've kind of, the status quo has been disrupted, not necessarily by us, right, but by the environment that we're in. And so Deepak and I, and several other leaders, we keep our teams close and focused on where we're aiming, what we're, you know, what our mission is so that we can continue to innovate. And I will tell you, I feel like we have an incredible focus. The vision is clear as to where we want to go. And it probably just sounds simple but it's just engaged leadership. That's how we keep people focused. That's how we're keeping our eye on the ball of where we're headed. >> That's, couldn't be more important. You know, you talked about simplicity, about that engaged leadership is so key. You guys, thank you so much. There's so much more we could dig into. I wish we had more time. Thank you for sharing what's going on with Project APEX, Dell technologies, how it's helping customers transform, because we know right now, that digital transformation is only accelerating. So we'll have to have you back to talk about what's going on. Deepak, Jen, thank you for joining us. >> Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. >> Thank you. >> For my guests, Jen Felch and Deepak Patil, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of Dell Technologies World, the virtual experience. (digitized music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience brought to you by Dell Technologies. >> Hi welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE coming to you from our Palo Alto studios, with our ongoing coverage of the Dell Technology World 2020, the digital experience, we can't be together this year, but we can still get together this way. And we're excited for our very next segment, really talking about one of the big leverage points that the Dell VMware relationship can result in, so we're excited. Joining us our next guest is Guy Bartram, he is the Director of Product Marketing for Cloud Director, for VMware. Guy great to see you, where are you coming in from? >> Thanks for having me on Jeff. >> Where are you coming in from today? (Guy chuckles) >> So this yeah, this London for me, this is from London. >> Excellent, great to see you. >> In the UK. >> And also joining us, Doug Lieberman, he is the Global Solutions Director for Dell Technology, Doug, great to see you, where are you coming in from today? >> Well, thanks for having me, I'm calling in from just outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in the United States. >> Excellent, love Philly's lived there for a couple of years and man, there's some terrific food in that part of the world, I tell yah. So let's get into--- >> You say--- >> Are you Pat's or Geno's. >> Actually I'll eat either one but I think I prefer Pat. >> Okay buddy, I used to get one of each and eat half and half and piss people off that were the purest, but that's a difference--- >> That's the right way to do it. (Jeff and Guy laughs) >> Right, so let's get into it, you know, before we turned on the cameras, you guys were talking about this exciting announcement that you've been working on for a really long time. So before we get kind of into the depths and the importance, why don't we just go ahead and tell us, what is the big announcement that we're sharing today? Go to you Guy. >> And so VMware and Dell really have worked together and we both have partner programs that are focused on service providers, Cloud Service providers, and systems integrators and strategic outsourcers. And what we've done is work together to build a solution that is really targeted towards them in the cloud arena, so taking our cloud capabilities and solutions and optimizing it for cloud providers and doing that through what we call, leveraging our Dell Technologies Cloud Platform and putting VMware Cloud Director on top of that. >> So that's pretty amazing, and really, to you Guy, what does that enable Cloud Service providers to do that they couldn't do so well before? >> It brings a whole lot of benefits to a Cloud Service provider, I mean, for cloud providers, historically they've had to have infrastructure services that've been, you know, quite heavy for them to build, taken a long time to get the market, and really had a high burn and operational costs and this solution VMware Cloud Director on Dell Technologies Cloud Platform is going to bring them the multitenancy aspects of cloud director and all of the speed and efficiencies in application and infrastructure delivery to enable them to address the common need now around hybrid cloud management and hybrid cloud operations. >> And you talked about before, I'm sorry, go ahead, Doug. >> No, I was saying, you know, I think that the big key piece is that, there're special requirements that cloud providers really need from their infrastructure, from their cloud, that makes it special to their business model, and what this aims to do, is to provide those capabilities in a easily consumable and rapid implementation format so that they can get to revenue faster and they can get to higher level services faster. >> It's funny, you talked about getting to revenue faster, back in the day I worked at Intel and Craig Barrett was famous for TTM. TTM, everyone used to think it was time to market bringing a new product to market, and he said, no, no, no, it's time to money, right, how fast can you get operational, so that you can basically get this thing to start generating revenue, I always think of that when you look at seven 37 sitting at a gate, you know, how do you get it operational? So Doug, what were some of those special challenges that they have in their market and how are you helping them solve them? >> So it's a great question, Jeff, as we work with service providers all over the world, they've given us a consistent message, that the days of the value in their service being, how they build the underlying cloud and how they do that orchestration automation are really behind us, right, they're expecting today, an end to end capability delivered as sort of an appliance for that underlying infrastructure for the cloud components, so that they can focus on the higher level services and the things that provide more value and more margin for them, and so, you know, the as a service offerings that run on top of the underlying cloud. And so what this joint solution does is really provide a validated design so that they can redirect their engineering resources from figuring out how to make that base cloud work in a service provider format, with multitenancy, chargeback, showback, portals, et cetera, and get that up and running faster and not have to worry about how to automate all that themselves, so they can focus their engineering efforts on those higher level services that provide greater value to their bottom line, to be honest, >> Great, that's great, and Guy, I want to go back to you, you know, the Cloud Service providers probably don't get as much of publicity as you know, we hear all the time about the big public Cloud Providers, you know, the big three or four or however you want to count them and we hear a lot about data centers and staff migrating between those two, we don't hear a lot of conversation in kind of the hybrid or the multicloud discussion about the role of the smaller Cloud Service providers. So I wonder if you can share a little bit about how they play in the market, you know why this is a really important segment for everyone's, you know, kind of architecture and ability to deliver applications. >> That's great common, I mean, one of the things we tend to call on our partners internally is the fall of mega cloud, that you know you really haven't heard of, there's 4,000 partners in our partner program and all of them are providing very valuable cloud services. They provide cloud services they've in all areas of cloud, so this could be into Azure, Google, AWS or in their own data centers, and many of them have come from infrastructure rich environments or what we call asset heavy environments and delivering services in these environments. The recent kind of drive to cloud adoption and digital transformation has meant that there's been a growing demand for Cloud Service providers to deliver valuable managed services and professional services to help customer do that digital transformation and really help the customer identify, where their customer's workloads, would be best apt and running. And, you know, cloud providers specialize in delivering these services like Doug was saying, they're looking at that higher value and they brought a lot of skills and capability in those areas. >> That's great, 'cause it's really good to keep in mind they pay a really important role in this whole thing. And Doug I want to go back to you in terms of working together with VMware in the solution space, right, so it's one thing to talk about a relationship between two companies, it's one thing to see Michael Dell and Pat Gelsinger on stage together, it's a whole nother deal to get together and put in the investment in these joint solutions. So I wonder if you could share a little bit more color on not only today's announcement, but what this really means for you guys going forward and more importantly, your customers, and ultimately your customer's customers. >> Absolutely, so Dell and VMware are both committed to really driving the success of our Cloud Provider partners all over the world, and to do that, we recognize that there's an additional level of capabilities that we need to bring together and jointly do that. And so we agreed to work together to go build a series of capabilities that are really targeted at going beyond just the basic HCI market and the basic cloud market and extending that for capabilities that are targeted specifically and built specifically for our service providers. And so this solution that we're announcing today is the first step on a journey, but we both committed to and made investments in, continuing that and adding more and more capabilities as we move forward and really addressing that very specific market. And working with our Cloud Service provider partners to figure out what is the next step, what do they need from us, at the end of the day, we're looking to jointly help them be more successful and accelerate their time to market and their go to market capabilities. >> Right, that's great, and Guy back to you, you actually had some numbers, some IDC numbers that you can share in terms of some of the real measurable benefits of this. >> That's right Jeff, yeah, we have, IDC did a recent analysis for us with about 12 partners interviewed across the globe, and some of the results that came back were pretty astounding actually, this pay-for is available on our VCE product page on vmware.com. But just as kind of summarize, you know, we talk about getting to revenue faster, they found that on average service providers were able to onboard customers, i.e migrate them, into their cloud environment around 72% faster, 57% faster delivery of new services and we all know that, you know, portfolio and construction of services takes a long time, but you get business units to buy in to give it support services, so 57% faster delivery of services is incredible. And then, you know, obviously getting to revenue 32% more revenue from VCD services than without VCD and 51% overall more growth with VCD from things like more efficient operations, which are also marked at like 31%. So, you know, significant advantages to having Cloud Director bringing those economies of scale, bringing that capability to migrate from a customer premise into service providers cloud, and then obviously be able to utilize multiple larger clouds across multiple regions. >> That's great, and Doug, I wonder if you could share, are there some specific applications that are driving this more than others, is there any particular kind of subset of the solutions that you can highlight where you're getting the most demand and where you see kind of the both short term opportunity as well as mid and longterm opportunity? >> A great question, I think it really evolves around a couple of different aspects. So one is from a pure security standpoint and things like data sovereignty, we're seeing an increased demand for the service providers that are our partners, as in the ecosystem of cloud, there will always be a role for the hyperscaler clouds as well as the role of these independent Cloud Service providers that are at the next tier down, both for the data sovereignty issues, things like GDPR, but as well as kind of that personal feel, that personal touch and specialty in applications, some of the specific areas we're seeing are things like business process management capabilities, database as a service, VDI as a service, but even more critically things like cyber recovery and backup as a service we're seeing, especially in the current situation that we're in, really an uptick in the cyber attacks and the ransomware, et cetera, and so solutions such as our cyber recovery are critical in those capabilities and those higher level services tied into and integrated with an overall service provider framework are key. And so in the area that we're really seeing uptake are really the business critical mission functions that enterprises are looking to run in a trusted partner's data center, and that's what we're seeing, where we're a lot of traction for this Dell Technologies Cloud Platform, combining VCD and VCF together to give you all those features and enterprise reliability. >> Right, and I didn't ask you Guy kind of the partnership question about having the opportunity to put your capability, you know, on the Dell Cloud Platform, opens up a whole new set of field resources, a whole new set of technical resources, you know, a whole different resources, not that VMware's short on resources by any stretch of the imagination, but it's certainly an additive, you know, kind of one plus one makes three opportunity. >> Yeah, I mean, it's great to be doing this and we've actually already been doing this on a couple of other initiatives, so from my perspective, I, you know, I manage Cloud Director Portfolio and we've already integrated Dell, Data Domain Dell, Avamar backup solutions, Data Protection Suite, into VCD as self service and we've already put in quite a bit of work, working together with Dell on that, as we go forward we're going to be putting more work into supporting VCD on the Dell Technologies Cloud Platform and integrating more services from Dell and from other vendors into the solution as well. So all we want to really provide is the capability for service provider to have the easy to consume hardware model, easy to consume subscription software model, with our program, and then the extensibility of services over and above just the infrastructure layer. So looking at things like object storage, and as Doug said, data protection, migration services, container cluster services, there's a myriad of services that VCD provides today out the box, and then there's the a whole extensibility framework, which we use when we work with partners, like we've done with Dell to deliver things like data protection. >> Yeah, I want to go back to you Doug, in terms of kind of a higher level, this whole transition to as a service, you've been in the business for a long time, you've been in the solutions a long time, but, you know, switching everything to as a service, as often as we can, and as frequently as we can, and as broadly across portfolio is really a terrific response to what the customers now, are looking for. So I'm wondering if you share some color on, you know, this philosophy of trying to get to, as a service, as much as you can, across the broadest solution set as you can. >> Yeah and if you look over the last decade, and decade and a half, there has been this increasing trend to moving to as a service offerings and the public clouds really drove a large part of that, than in tier two service providers around the globe. The key piece especially in the current business model, then going forward is how do you optimize, your CapEx versus OPEX and how do you really leverage the IT infrastructure to the maximum extent possible, based upon current business conditions, and that means the ability to grow and train and the ability to only consume what you need. In the past, when we had traditional data centers, you basically built for the worst case, and so the worst case was you had, an accounting run that happened at the end of the month that required a lot of processing power, then you built to that and that's what you use, and for the rest of the month, it really mostly idle. The cloud model really gives you the ability to A, improve their, or only use what you need and consume when you want to use it, but also adds in really shifting the responsibility for the management and the operations into someone, people who are experts in that area, so that again, you as a business can focus on your mission critical aspects of what you do whether that's developing a drug, building cars, making pizza, whatever it is, really as a service model enables your business to drive their core competency and not have to worry about the IT infrastructure that other people can do more efficiently and with better value than you could do it internally. And all that drive to that as a service model with the additional financial models that really aligned to the business paradigm that really companies are looking for. >> As you're saying that I'm thinking, wow, remember those days when our worst case scenario, was running a big batch load at the end of the month or the end of the quarter, and that would be re-missed, right, we are 2020, we're spread out all over the country and the world on both sides of the Atlantics. If I didn't say something about, you know, kind of the COVID impacts in terms of this accelerate, 'cause we hear it all the time in social media, right, who's driving your digital transformation, is it the CEO, the CIO, of COVID, and we've moved from this kind of light switch moment and then merged to, hey, this is an ongoing thing, and you know, kind of the new normal, is the new normal. And it's really shifted, a lot of people are talking about, you know, kind of shifts in the cloud infrastructure, the direction of the traffic, right, from going now from East to West and it's North to South, 'cause it's going to everybody's home. I wonder, I'll go back to you Guy, in terms of, the response that you've heard from some of your customers, in a response to, you know, kind of A, let's put a stop gap in early March that was interesting, and critical, and done, but now, kind of looking forward as to, you know, kind of a redistribution of workloads and architecture and users and I think Doug talked about security. How are you seeing any kind of ongoing effects and how is this impacting, you know, kind of you go to market and what you guys are bringing to market. >> Yeah, we're definitely seeing a lot of change in the way that service providers are trying to address this now. At the start of COVID, it was really a struggle, I think, for everyone to get the resources that they required to keep customers up from running, a lot of people started re-examining their disaster recovery contingency planning, and realizing that actually, what has happened in the last couple of years is, you know, workloads have exploded, a lot of patient workloads have completely gone through the roof and container workloads have grown drastically, and what's happened is the contingency plans behind all this stuff haven't changed and they just simply can't keep up the dynamic nature of the way we're doing business. Quite simply put technology is outpacing our weight, our ability to deal with that, so, you know, service providers need to provide a platform solution that enables them to be able to orchestrate at scale and enables them to orchestrate securely at scale, and really that means they've got to move away from this is hardware analog and move into virtual resourcing, cloud resource pooling elasticity, and particularly hypothesy. I know VMware we talk a lot about hybrid solutions and multicloud, but it's a reality when you look at where customers are today in their cloud journey, most of them have a footprint in their premise, have a footprint in a cloud provider premise and have multiple footprints in public cloud environments, so they need to have that consistent security model across that, they need to have data contingency and backup solutions, and someone needs to be in that to manage that, and that's where the service providers come in. They need to move away from the kind of infrastructure day to day operations that they were doing before and scale it out to now application protection and application development environments. >> Right, so Doug, I'm going to give you the last word as we wrap up this segment, you know, it's easy for us and pundits and people to write about multicloud and hybrid cloud and all these concepts, you guys actually have to make it work on the ground with real customers and real workloads. So I wonder if you could just kind of, you know, share your perspective, you've been working on this Dell Cloud Platform, you know, kind of how you see this evolving over time, and again, kind of what gets you up in the morning as you look forward as to what this journey is going to be over the next six months, one year, two year, three years down the road. >> Brought a lot of functionality capabilities to the world, right, the ability to consume things as you need them, the ability to really rely on a combined set of clouds and multicloud, and if you look at any enterprise that by any estimate, any company of any size, it's probably got 12, 15 clouds that contain their multicloud between using hyperscalers, tier two service providers, as well as cloud based services like Salesforce.com or Office 365, and you combine all those together and what that provides is a lot of flexibility, a lot of functionality, but also an extreme amount of complexity. And that complexity is really where Dell Technologies Cloud and Dell Technologies Cloud Platform is looking to help and to reduce that complexity, 'cause ultimately a successful enterprise is going to leverage the best from multiple clouds across multiple different implementations in order to provide the end to end IT experience that they need for both their external facing and internal IT operations. And with Dell Technologies Cloud Platform and working with our service providers, what we aim to do is to simplify the implementation of those multiple clouds and how they work together and make it as seamless as possible to shift workloads where they need to be, see your entire virtual enterprise IT environment, no matter where it's running, and to really optimize on your business to understand how you're using cloud, where you're using cloud, and how those clouds work together. And so the integration of all the different features with VMware and Dell bring together that end to end capability to significantly simplify the multicloud experience, and then ultimately our service provider partners, can help you on that journey to provide that management and orchestration across those different clouds and the data transformation, the digital transformation necessary in order to drive success. >> That's great, well, thank you Doug, for putting a nice big bow on it, and congratulations to you both for getting this release out, I know there's a lot of hard work and effort behind it, so it's always kind of good to finally get to expose it to the real world, so thanks for taking a few minutes with us. >> Great, thank you for having us. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah thanks Jeff, thank you. >> All right, he's Guy, he's Doug, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of Dell Technologies World 2020, the digital experience. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (soft upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back, I'm still minimum and this is the Cubes coverage of VM World 2020 our 11th year doing the Cube. First year. We're doing it, of course, virtually globally. Happy to welcome back to the program. One of our Cube alumni, Shannon Champion, and she is the director of product marketing with Dell Technologies. Shannon, Nice to see you and thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks for having me. Good to see you as well. >>Alright, So big thing, of course, at VM World, talking about building off of what was Project Pacific at last year's show? Talking about how kubernetes all the wonderful cloud native pieces go in. So let's let's talk about application modernization. Shannon, you know, with a theme I've talked about for a number of years, is you know, we need to modernize the platform, and then we can modernize the applications on top of those. So tell us what you're hearing from your customers and how Delon vm, where then, are bringing the solutions to help customers really along that journey. >>Yeah, I'd love Thio. It's fun stuff. So, um, enterprises are telling us that especially now more than ever, they're really looking for how they must digitally transform. And they need to do that so they can drive innovation and get a competitive advantage on one way. That they're able to do that is by finding ways to flexibly and rapidly move work loads to where they make sense, whether that's on premises or in the public cloud. And the new standard for doing this is becoming cloud native applications. There was a recent I. D. C. Future Escape that predicted that by 2025 2 3rd of enterprises will be prolific software producers with code being deployed on a daily basis, and over 90% of applications at that time will be delivered with cognitive approaches. So it's just kind of crazy to think, and what's really impressive to is that the sheer volume of applications that are anticipated to be produced with these cloud native approaches Ah, it's expected to be over 500 million new APS created with cognitive approaches by 2024 just kind of putting that into perspective 500 million. APS is the same number that's been created over the last 40 years. So it's a fun, fun trend to be part of. >>Yeah, it's really amazing. When I talked to customers, there's some It's like, Oh, let me show you how Maney APs I've done and created in the last 18 months. It was like, Great. How does that compare before? And they're like, we weren't creating APS. We were buying APS. We were buying software. We had outsourced some of those pieces. So you know that that that trend we've been talking about for a number of years is kind of everyone's a software company, Um, does not mean that, you know, we're getting rid of the old business models. But Shannon, there are challenges there either expanding and moving faster or, you know, making sure that I have the talent in house. So bring us inside. What if some of the big things that your customers are telling you, uh, maybe that's holding them back from unlocking that central? >>Yeah, totally. You hit on a couple of them, you know, we're definitely seeing a lot of interest in adoption of kubernetes and clearly VM Ware is leading the way with Changzhou. But we're also hearing that they're underestimating the challenges on how toe quote unquote get to kubernetes. Right? How do you stand up that full cloud native staff and particularly at scale Thio? How do you manage the ongoing operations and maintain that infrastructure? How do you support the various stakeholders? How do you bring I t operators and developers together? Eso There's really a wide range of challenges that, um businesses air facing. And the other thing is that you hit on, you know, they're going to be producing mawr and Mawr cloud native applications, but they still need to maintain legacy applications, many of which are driving business, critical applications and workloads. So they're going to need to look for solutions that help them manage both and allow them to re factor or retire those legacy ones at their own pace so they can maintain business continuity. >>Yeah, and of course, Shannon, we know as infrastructure people, our job was always toe, you know, give the environment to allow the applications to run in virtualization. For years, it was Well, I knew if I virtualized something, I could leave it there and it wasn't going to. It didn't have to worry about the underlying hardware changes. Help us understand How does kubernetes fit into this environment? Because, as I said that people don't want to even worry about it. And the infrastructure people now need to be able to change, expand and, you know, respond to the business so much faster than we might have in times past. >>Yeah, so from an infrastructure perspective, working with VM ware based on tons of really the essence of that is to bring I t operators and developers together. The infrastructure has a common set of management that, you know, each the developer and the I t operators can work in the language there most familiar with. And, you know, the communication of the translation all happens within Tan Xue so that they're more speaking the same, um, language when it comes Thio, you know, managing the infrastructure in particular with VM ware tansy on VX rail. We are delivering kind of a range of infrastructure options because we know people are still trying to figure out you know, where they are in their kubernetes readiness path. Some people have really developed mature capabilities in house for who were Netease for software defined networking. And for those customers, they still may want Thio. You know, use a reference architecture er and build on top of the ex rail for, you know, a custom cloud native specific application. What we're finding is more and more customers, though, don't have that level of kubernetes expertise, especially at scale. And so VM ware v sphere with Tan Xue on VX rail as well as via more cloud foundation on VX rail are ways Thio get a fast start on kubernetes with directly on these fair or kind of go with the full Monty of VM or Cloud Foundation on VX rail. >>Well, we're bringing up VX rail. Of course. The whole wave of h C I was How do we enable simplicity? We don't wanna have to think about these. We wanna, uh, just make it so that customers can just buy a solution. Of course. VX rail joint solution, you know, heavily partnership with VM ware. So, Shannon, there's a few options. VM has been moving very fast toe expand out that the into portfolio, uh, back at the beginning of the year when the sphere seven came out. You needed the BMR Cloud Foundation. Which, of course, what was an option for for for the VX rail. So help us understand you laid out a little bit some of those options there. But what should I know as Adele customer, Uh, you know what my options are? How the fault Kansas Wheat fits into it. >>Yeah, eso We like to call it kubernetes your way with the ex rail. So we have a range of options to fit your operational or kubernetes scale requirements or your level of expertise. So the three options, our first for customers that are looking for that tested, validated, multi configuration reference architectures er that will deliver platform as a service or containers is a service. We've got Tom to architecture for VX rail, which is a new name for what was known as pivot already architecture er and then for customers that may have minimum scaling requirements. They may have some of that expertise in house to manage at scale. The fastest path to get started with kubernetes is the new VM ware V sphere with Changzhou on VX rail. And then last I mentioned kind of that full highly automated turnkey on promises Cloud platform. That's the VM, or Cloud Foundation, on VX rail, which is also known as Dell Technologies Cloud Platform. And that option supports Tan Xue with software defined networking and security built in with that automated lifecycle management across the full stack. So there's really three paths to it from a reference architecture approach to a fast path on the actual clusters all the way to the full Deltek Cloud platform. And Dell Technologies is the first and only really offering this breath of tans. You infrastructure deployment options. Eso customers can really, uh, choose the best path for them. >>Yeah, So, Shannon, if if I If I think back to what we saw in the keynote, you know, VM Ware lays out there, they're hybrid and multi cloud solution. So of course they're they're public cloud the VM ware cloud on a W s. They have that solution. They have extended extended partnerships. Now, with azure uh, the the the offering with Oracle. Uh, that's coming, and I guess I could think to just think of the delta cloud on VX rail as just one of those other clouds in that hybrid and multi cloud solutions. Do I have that right? Same stack. Same management. If I'm if I'm living in that VM world world. >>Yeah. So the Deltek Cloud platform is an on premises hybrid cloud. So, you know, ah, lot of customers were looking to reduce complexity really quickly especially, you know, with some of the work from home initiatives that were sprung upon us and trying to pivot, um to respond to that. And, you know, the answer to solving some of that complexity is to jump into public cloud. What we found is a lot of customers actually are driving a hybrid cloud strategy and approach. And we know many customers sort of have that executive mandate. There's value in, um, driving that are on prem hybrid cloud approach. And that's what Dell Technologies Cloud platform is. So you get the consistent operations in the consistent infrastructure and more of the public cloud like consumption experience while having the infrastructure on Prem for security data locality. Other, um, you know, cost reasons like that. Eso That's really where VM or Cloud Foundation on VF Trail comes into play eso leveraging the VM ware technologies you have on Prem Hybrid cloud. It can connect all those public cloud providers that you talked about. So you have, you know, core to cloud on Dwan. Of the new capabilities that VM or Cloud Foundation, is announced support for is remote clusters. So that takes us kind of from cloud all the way toe edge because you now have the same VCF operational capabilities and operational efficiency with centralized management for remote locations. >>Wonderful. I'm glad you brought up the edge piece. Of course, you talk to the emerging space vm ware talking about ai talking about EJ, so help us understand. How much is it? The similar operational model? Is it even eyes that part of the VX rail family? What's the What's the state of the state in 2020 when it comes to how edge fits into that cloud core edge discussion that you just raised? >>Yeah, when you look at trends, especially for hyper converged edge and cloud native are kind of taking up a lot of the airwaves right now. Eso hyper converge is gonna play a big role in Theodore option of both cloud native Band Edge. And I think the intersection of those two comes into play with things like the remote cluster support for VM Ware Cloud Foundation on VX rail, where you can run cloud, you know, cloud native based modern applications with Tan Xue alongside traditional workloads at the edge, which traditionally have more stringent requirements. Less resource is maybe they need a more hardened environment, power and cooling, you know, um, constraints. So with VCF on VX rail, you have all the operational goodness that comes from the partnership in the levels of integration that we have with VM Ware. And customers can sort of realize that promise of full workload management mobility in a true hybrid cloud environment. >>Shannon I'm wondering what general feedback you're getting from your customers is as they look at a zoo, said these cloud native solutions. You know what's what's the big take away? Is this a continuation of the HD I wave that you've seen? Do they just pull this into their hybrid environments? Um, I'm wondering if you have any either any specific examples that you've been anonymized or just the general gestalt that you're getting from your customers. Is that how they're doing expanding, uh, into these, you know, new environments that kind of stretch them in different ways. >>Yeah, it's interesting because you know, there's there's customers that run the gamut when we look at those that are sort of the farther down their digital transformation journey. Those are the ones that were already planning for cloud native applications or had some in development. Uh, there's also some trends that we're seeing based on, you know, the the size of cluster deployments and the range of, you know, various configurations that are an indicator of those customers that are more modernized in terms of their approach to cloud native. And what we find from those customers, especially over the last six months, is that they're more prepared to respond to the unknown on bond. That was a big lesson for some of the other customers that you know, had new. The digital transformation was the way of the future, but hadn't yet sort of come up with a strategy on how to get there themselves were finding those customers are inhibiting their investments to areas that can help them be more ready for the unknown in the future. In Cloud native is top of that list. >>Absolutely. Shannon Day Volante showed a few times There's the people in the office, you know, with their white board doing everything. And there's the wrecking ball of covert 19. Kind of like Well, if you weren't ready and you weren't already down this path, you better move fast. Wonderful. All right, Shannon. So we know, uh, from past years, you know, VX rail. Usually it's all over the show. So in the digital world, what do you want to he takeaways. What are some of the key? You know, hands on demos, sessions that that people should check out. >>Thank you. Yeah. So hopefully your take away is that the X ray is a great infrastructure to support modern applications. First and foremost, we have, you know, a jointly engineered system built with VM ware, four VM ware environments to enhance fam. Where, and we do that with our the extra LHC I system software, which I didn't give a shout out to yet, which extends that native capabilities and really is the secret behind how we do seamless automated operational experience with the ex rail. And that's the case, whether it's traditional or modern applications. So that's my little commercial for VX rail at the show. Please tune into our VM World session on this topic. We also have hands on labs. We are launching a fun augmented reality game. Eso Please check that out on. We have a new Web page as well that you could get access to all the latest assets and guides that help you, you know, navigate your journey for cloud native. And that's at dell technologies dot com slash Hangzhou. >>Wonderful. Well, Shannon Champion, thanks so much. Great to see you again. And be short. Uh, we look forward to hearing more in the future. >>Thanks to >>stay with us. Lots more coverage from VM World 2020. I'm stew. Minimum is always thank you for watching the Cube.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with its ecosystem partners. >> Good morning, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent 19 from Las Vegas, Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman, Stu, this is day three of two sets of coverage for theCUBE, and this expo hall has not gotten any less busy, tons of people still here. >> Lisa, 65,000, I'm sure the throats are a little bit raw, the feet are tired, but there's so much good information, and yeah, excited to dig in with some more of our guests. >> Yep, so much good information, in fact we have Dell EMC back, yes, we had them yesterday, there's more to talk about today, please welcome a couple of guests, we've got Nick Brackney, senior consultant, cloud product marketing, welcome to theCUBE, your first time. >> Yeah, thank you, thanks for having me. >> Lisa: And Bob Ganley, I feel like it's been about 18 hours, maybe 20. Senior consultant cloud product marketing, welcome back. >> Thank you. >> So guys, lots of news. AWS news shot out of a cannon, one of the things, though, that you can't help but talk about at any event is multicloud. Organizations, CIOs tell us on theCUBE all the time, we have inherited a multicloud, sometimes Dave Vellante calls it a crime scene, right, for various reasons, it's not necessarily strategic, but it is becoming a reality. Talk to us about what Dell EMC is seeing with your customer base, with respect, sorry, that's for Nick, to multicloud, what are you seeing, how are you helping customers navigate this? >> Yeah, I think that there's a lot of diversity in needs with our customer base, and it's really challenging for any one vendor to provide all the solutions that they need, and so that's where it's really about being able to offer them choices and giving them support to be in the right cloud for their workload, and so as we talk about this idea of cloud in the state you said, if they're in one or more clouds, it's really important that they have consistency across those clouds, because otherwise, the crime scene turns into something that's a management headache for everyone. >> Nick, wonder if we could tease that out a little bit, because consistency's important, when I think about multi-vendor in the data center for years, VMWare did a pretty good job of extracting the certain layer. I'm a little worried that we're trying to recreate some of the silos of the past in giant cloud environment, so how do we make sure we learn from the past, and because skillsets are very different, the products underneath are very different, so while there might be certain point applications that I might need, the message here at Amazon is, they've got the broadest and deepest environments, they are, if you're doing multicloud, they're going to be doing one of them, so bring us inside your customers and how we make sure that we don't end up with that crime scene that they've talked about, and all the pieces. >> I think first off, you can't look at technology in a vacuum, you really have to be thinking about people and processes. What can a business actually consume? We run into a lot of talk about containers, and containers is a great path forward to go cloud-native, and that's really easy if you're starting from scratch. If you have 1000 apps, though, that currently sit on-premises, it's really challenging to make that move, and which ones do I replatform, which ones do I lift and shift, and so I think that's one of the things we're doing with our work with VMWare Cloud Foundation, is we have one platform that can handle both virtualization and containers, so you can have a orderly progression towards cloud-native. >> Talk about the people part of it, I think we talked about this a little bit yesterday, Bob, and that's actually something that has come up in a lot of our conversations, is it's not just about the technology, for many reasons. How do you help the people, 'cause part of that's cultural, and that's really a challenging change to undergo. >> You know, I think you have to meet them where they are, right, and that's, I read an article and someone said for analytics that most CEOs still are using Excel, there are all these other really advanced analytics things, but that's what they're most comfortable with. So when we're looking at the fact that all these organizations have really standardized on VMWare, that's a really easy move for them to make, because you can take your existing skillsets, the investments you've made in the software-defined data center, and now you can extend them to the cloud, and you can take the existing best practices that you have in your data center, and you can move those to the cloud, so you're not surprised when you get there with all of the configurations and all the management, all the security challenges. >> And I want to add to that, actually, because I think one of the underlooked aspects of this whole thing, is the idea that, like you said, if you have silos of operation, then you've got challenges, and so I like to say security, for example, begins with who are you, what do you have access to? So if you have different ways of doing that on-prem, than in cloud, you're by definition at a riskier state. Same thing for compliance, same thing for automation, if you've got multiple different tools to use, it's just harder to do. So I think the consistency thing is very, very important. >> Excellent, Bob, you're the straight man for my next question here, because if you listen to our hosts here of AWS, they don't use that multicloud word. Yet the biggest conversation of discussion that I've had across with AWS, with customers, and with the ecosystem here has been Outposts, and absolutely, Amazon might not even use the hybrid term, but absolutely, it is that extension between consistency, between the public cloud and in my data center, so I'd like to hear Dell's perspective, Outposts of course, hugely important. >> Sure, I think it'd be really easy or almost trite to say that "Oh, Amazon is justifying "the fact that there's on-prem infrastructure," right, I mean Andy comes out and says "97% of IT revenue is still on-prem." I think everybody understands that. I think it comes down to the following. Investment protection, trust, and choice. And investment protection is about, organizations today have a huge investment in the way they're doing business now, and clearly VMWare is the lion's share of on-prem virtualization today, so it makes sense to extend that investment toward hybrid cloud, and there's a very natural path to do that. From the perspective of trust, when you look at on-prem infrastructure, who better to work with than Dell EMC, I mean we're number one at HTI, number one in servers, number one in storage, we know how to do on-prem, and now with Dell Technologies Cloud, we're extending that to a very consistent hybrid cloud model with AWS. And the third thing is choice, which is, Outposts is interesting because it's a completely managed service. Some organizations want that managed service. What we bring to the table with Dell Technologies Cloud is either Dell Technologies Cloud Platform, which is you manage it the way you normally manage it, or, VMWare Cloud on Dell EMC, which is a completely managed service, so we have the data centers as a service offering, we have the you manage it, mister customer, which aligns with the way they're doing business, and I think last but not least is this whole idea of cloud economics, and this concept of allowing people to pay for things by the drink, which is something that we're helping organizations do with their on-prem. >> Bob, actually, just want to make sure I understand, when we talk about that managed service, the Outposts solutions with VMWare is expected in 2020, does that then roll under the Dell Technology Cloud offering on VMWare, I just want to make sure how that is expected to go. >> Yeah, so no it doesn't, because that's essentially the Amazon hardware with the VMWare stack on it, on-premises, and what we're offering for a data center as a service solution is VMWare Cloud on Dell EMC, formerly known as Project Dimension, which is the trusted Dell EMC hardware with the verified VMWare stack, very tightly integrated, so it's cloud-like operations on-prem. >> So similar consumption models, similar design points, but different hardware stacks. >> Well, multiple consumption models, which is, I think... >> Yeah, and I was going to say, one of the other things you have to look at, too, when you're thinking about, why now, why is this happening, and I think it's because people are starting to realize, something that we've been saying for a long time, which is that cloud isn't a place, it's an operating model, and so by being able to bring that into the data center, what you're doing is you're extending it to more workloads, and I think that's great for customers, that's what they want, and that's what we're trying to build, ourselves. >> What are some of the, Bob, a question for you, aligning with Stu's question, this week, since the announcement of Outposts, what Amazon is doing there, announced last year, coming to fruition now, what are some of the things that you're hearing around the event from Dell EMC customers, are they understanding what that opportunity is for them? >> Yeah, and we've been doing this for a while, right, so VMWare Cloud on Dell EMC has been general availability since VMworld of 2019, we announced it in 2018, we've got tons of customers that are very interested, thousands of customers running within VMWare Cloud on AWS, and now looking at this data center as a service solution, as an extension to that on-prem. The thing that's cool about it is, they don't have to touch the hardware, they don't have to touch the software, it all gets managed remotely, but it's used just like on-prem infrastructure, right? So it's a great solution. >> Nick, one of the things that always gets talked about here is, there's a big shift from CAPEX to OPEX at the show, one of the things that surprises me is customers get all excited, Amazon comes out with a new feature and they say, "Hey, we're going to give you Insights, "and we're going to save you 30% "over what you were paying last year, "just because you probably weren't configuring it great." In your world, if you came to a customer and said "Oh, hey, we oversold you stuff," and this there, they'd probably be walking you out the door, but Dell's been doing some interesting things, going more cloud-native with the economic model, maybe speak a little bit to that. >> I mean, I think it's something that's great, cloud economics makes it easy to get going with a small investment and scale out, and move more quickly, be more agile, and so what we wanted to do was bring that same agility and ability to kind of innovate and not have the cost be a barrier, by then extending that across our portfolio at Dell Technologies On Demand. So that's really about whether you want to do metered usage, whether you want a subscription or whether I want to purchase hardware up front, wait till I'm going to hit the switch and turn it on and then I'll start getting billed, but then I have the idea, the same thing as cloud, where it's this idea of unlimited capacity at your fingertips, right, it's not actually unlimited, we sometimes see that even some clouds run out of space, but you're able to move quicker, you don't have to wait those three, four, six weeks for the hardware to come in, because it's already sitting there. >> Legacy businesses don't have that much time, because there are invariably in every industry, there is a born in the cloud company that is moving faster, has a different mindset, and it's probably chomping at the bit right behind them, take over that business if that legacy enterprise isn't able to work fast enough. >> Absolutely, but what really makes this really interesting is that we're still offering you more choices, right, so the thing is, there are certain workloads that break cloud economics, whether it's massive storage that, I always tell people "You spin up and spin down VMs, "you never delete data because that is super valuable "to your business," or, we find certain workloads that are steady state, right, cloud is really great when you're scaling up, scaling down, when you're flipping off the switch of the lights when you leave the room. If you leave it on all the time, it can add up, and so what's really nice, not just about bringing the cloud economics into the data center, but by bringing that consistent experience across both the data center and your cloud, is now you can let the business requirements and the application requirements determine what the best place to put the workload is. >> Sorry, so Bob, one of the big themes at this show is transformation, you've got it on your hat. When we talk about the cloud-native space, we always said, "They were the cloud-native companies, "they were born in the cloud." We said, "There are many companies now "that are becoming born again in the cloud." Bring us inside a little bit, what you're seeing, the discussion point is you just can't incrementally get there, it requires executive management, involvement, and it is a radical change in the way you build your applications, and that has a ripple effect through everything that you do. >> It absolutely does. When you think about it, there is an evolution happening in application architectures, and that evolution is from physical to virtual, to now infrastructure's a service to add additional efficiency and automation, orchestration, now container as a service, as we see organizations moving toward cloud-native and containers, to platform as a service and function as a service. And when you think about that, organizations need to bring their existing investments and virtualized applications forward as they're adding on containers, as they're looking at this next generation cloud-native. So we believe the right solution is to preserve that investment and bring that forward so we've been adding cloud-native standard upstream Kubernetes distribution to our Dell Technologies Cloud Platform, and that allows organization to extend our investment, so that's one thing is that architectural evolution. The second thing is what I call the operational evolution that's happening as well. And the operational evolution is, cloud has revolutionized the way people look at IT because it's so easy to use. So what we're doing is bringing that operational evolution to the data center as well, where we're completely integrating the on-prem infrastructure so that you can life cycle manage it in a automated fashion, and we're doing that both for infrastructure as a service and now for container as a service for Kubernetes. So we're excited about both the architectural and operational evolution. >> And Nick, I'd be curious, your viewpoint of this show, it's really a interesting mix of, you've got enterprise, you've got developers, you've got everything in between and personas, so bring us inside some of the conversations you're having, how you have worked with some of those different personas. >> Well I think it's really interesting, 'cause the shift towards containers means a shift towards DevOps, and when you're looking at that, I think what's lost on the way is, when I talk to my friends who've spent a lot of time as ITOps folks, they think very differently than developers. When something goes wrong, their immediate reaction is, "Please roll it back." Whereas a developer thinks "Hold on, let me add some more "code to this, and we'll fix it that way." And so I think the challenge right now is, the burden is shifting, and it's shifting towards developers and one of the things, I think, with our solution and hopefully project-specific with VMWare, what's coming down the path, where they're injecting containers into vSphere, all of that, hopefully what's going to come out of that is, you're going to make the job a little bit easier for developers, 'cause when you start doing DevOps, or god forbid DevSecOps, and you're burdening these people with all these responsibilities, how are they still going to innovate? That's really a big challenge, and I think, when I'm at a show like this, I hear it from both sides, so it's really fascinating to hear the different perspectives, they're not necessarily aligned. >> Yeah, it just, the quick note on that, in Warner's keynote, he puts out the giant thing on the board, "Everything fails all the time." That's not what the enterprise was used to in the old world, and that's what that transformation is, a little bit uncomfortable for many of 'em. >> And speaking of being uncomfortable, Bob, you talked about cloud, especially next-gen cloud, brings up opportunity, a lot of opportunity, but with it comes architectural change, as you mentioned, operational change, but cultural change. Final questions and thoughts, Nick, from you, what are in the respect of the opportunity but those changes, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you're seeing enterprises make, and how can they avoid those? >> Yeah, so I mean the first thing is, I think that people having sweeping mandates. When people say cloud first as a mandate, I think what they're missing in that is, there's so much exuberance, they're not thinking through, what does the workload need, what does the business need, and cloud should absolutely be a big part of anyone's strategy moving forward, but you need to be thoughtful about what you do, and Pat Gelsinger talks about, there's three laws, the laws of physics, the laws of economics, and the laws of the land. I always joke around, we still haven't managed to find a way to travel faster than the speed of light, so latency is always an issue. And then the second thing is, around the shared responsibility model. When you move to infrastructure as a service, people think, "Wow, they're taking care of everything, "this is super easy." And what they haven't always figured out is that they're still on the hook for a lot of things from a security perspective, from a manageability perspective, from a data protection perspective, and if you fail to actually address those, then you might run into some problems down the line. >> Guys, good stuff, always so much to talk about, thank you both for joining Stu and me on the program today, Bob, I'll probably see you again at the airport tonight. >> No doubt. >> We appreciate you joining Stu and me. And, stick around on theCUBE, 'cause later today, Andy Jassy, AWS CEO is going to be on. But for now, I'm Lisa Martin for Stu Miniman, thanks for watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and it's Ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back, everyone. Live CUBE coverage here at VMworld 2019. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, hosts of theCUBE here in two sets. We're on the main set. The set over there, Dave Vellante's hosting. This morning, we have two great guests here. Bob Ganley, who's Cloud Marketing at Dell EMC. John Allwright, Director of Product Marketing at Pivotal. We got operators, we got development experts here. Guys, thanks for joining us. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, excited to be here. >> John: Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, it's great to be here. >> So the show, VMworld, we're obviously an operators' show, one of the things that's really interesting is the Dell EMC equation of VMware on Dell EMC. You're seeing the piece parts coming together. The Pivotal acquisition, you're in Product Marketing over there, so I'm sure you got to perspective on the dots that connect there, even though the acquisition's a couple days old. Let's start with Dell EMC. Michael was on yesterday. I said, "You guys were number one in all the metric quadrants." You know, this, that, servers. As you've got to pull that together on-premises, where the Data Center is nearly going away and the Edge has emerged, you got to have an operating model that's got to be cloud. And that's really seems to be the focus, clearly. >> Yeah, absolutely. What we see is that customers today are trying to deliver value through applications. And it's all about apps, because apps is where that value gets delivered to the customer. So, as organizations are trying to deliver those applications, the question becomes what's the best place to put the app. So right workload, right cloud is a big thing for us. Clearly, organizations have been adopting public cloud in droves. What we see is that they're trying to figure out how do they get that public cloud infrastructure to work with what they're doing on-prem. What we're bringing to the table, is a solution called Dell Technologies Cloud. We're super-excited about bringing together private and public in a hybrid cloud solution in a way that provides consistent infrastructure and consistent operations. As you guys have seen, everybody's excited about next-generation apps, right? So now, where are we going with next generation apps? That's really what this show is all about. >> Bob, I'm so glad you brought up the apps. Because we often, my background's infrastructure, and we get down in the weeds as to what's doing, and, like, oh we architected this better and chipsets and all these things there. But it's that modernization that customers are going through. Can you pick us through, what are the patterns you're seeing? One term I'd used for a while is, modernize the platform and then modernize the apps. Is that it? Containerization, where do all these pieces fit, again, when they're talking about their application development? >> It's interesting because every customer's on an application journey. We all started in physical, right? I was a software developer right out of college. Working with physical infrastructure is where it's at. Organizations have clearly adopted virtualization. And most organizations are now trying to pivot toward how do I get more efficiency, more agility, for my virtualized applications. That's really where infrastructure as a service, and IT as a service is adding a lot of value today. So, the question becomes, as I'm working with my existing virtualized applications, and now looking at next generation apps and developing those, how am I going to bring that along? We see this physical to virtual to infrastructure as a service, to container as a service, as being a very logical progression for customers. >> Well, certainly it's absolutely standardized now. Containers, since Docker hit the scene. Containers had been around for a while. You talk to anyone with development, oh, containers, put a wrapper around things, it's kind of a known concept. John, I want to get your thoughts, because one of the things about Dev Ops in the Cloud 1.0 was, clearly the cloud native world was obvious. If you were a startup, you were born in the cloud, it was all goodness. You didn't have on-premise to deal with. You just did everything. The operator was the developer, right? So, Cloud 2.0 is a little bit more complicated. And we're seeing that the trend where the infrastructure has to be enabling for the developer, and that has been a key thing. But what's interesting is, in Cloud 2.0, as we're calling it, the world is flipped upside down. It used to be the infrastructure would dictate what the application developers could do, based upon what the capabilities were, to now the application developers dictating resources below them to be on demand, or elastic, or one cloud, two clouds. So the application's dictating configuration and architecture, either dynamically or specifically. Not limited to what is rolled out. So this relationship between infrastructure and developers is evolving very quickly. I would love to get your thoughts on how you see it. You've been around the block on this point. >> I mean, Pat had a great slide in the Keynote, which kind of put Kubernetes as in between developers and operators. I think the way that is evidenced itself is that Kubernetes has been something that's been driven down from developers. They're saying, this is the infrastructure that we want to run our applications. Working at the levels that typically infrastructure is provided. There's too much work for them to do. So in some cases, they were packaging up Kubernetes with their applications and saying to the infrastructure folks, hey, deploy this. I think we've now kind of crossed the point where Infrastructure go, well this is a thing and I need to provide that. So things like Project Pacific, or a recognition that, yeah, why not bake that into the infrastructure? So Kubernetes is kind of Dev Ops, materialized in a product. >> Yeah, it was interesting. I had an interview yesterday. We've been watching Kubernetes since the beginning. But the way they described it is, Kubernetes is really the new server. It's like I can spin up that environment in a much shorter period of time. Which, of course, was part of the value proposition of going to containerization. Project Pacific is, you're going to take your install base of VMs and give them that bridge to the future. Pivotal also, if I wanted to just do it in the public cloud, you've got the options there. Correct? What I'd love, John, if you can help tease us out the Kubernetes message. If I take VMware plus Pivotal and Heptio and all the pieces, help us sort through the fog a little bit. >> The thing that's become very clear to us at Pivotal and, I think, in the industry is that Kubernetes is now becoming an expected default. Whereas maybe before it was VMs, that's the basic foundation that I'm going to build my workers, my applications on. Now it's Kubernetes. And whether I'm building custom applications or a vendor is supplying me with something as a container images in a pod, that's kind of the default. So the big thing about the announcers from the Keynote was that's really what we're working to. In something like Tanzu Mission Control, now distracts you away from necessarily where those Kubernetes are appearing, whether that is on-prem or in the public cloud. Let's you work across a foundation that actually appears in a lot of different places. >> The impact of Mission Control. Just drill down on that for a second, because that demo was pretty sweet. Just take a minute to explain the relevance of having the view of all those Kubernetes clusters across the cloud and what it means to the operator. Because that was an interesting demo. >> Yeah, so the analogy I use, and it doesn't fit exactly, but it's kind of like power stations in a grid. With a lot of products, things like SoS with PKS, have been creating the power stations that let you run Kubernetes, but the power is really in having the grid. So Mission Control gives you the grid. It lets you do operations across Kubernetes wherever they are. But also do things like migrations. We talk about Enterprise PKS being a really good start point of getting into this new world of Pacific and everything. And it's actually Tanzu Mission Control that enables that. It's like VMotion for containers, almost. >> It is such an important piece, because every platform is going to have Kubernetes, and while VMware is going to have some Kubernetes, it's not going to have all Kubernetes. So if I've got some in Amazon, and I'm using Anthos over here, we'd love to have that management platform that gives me visibility. Bob, I just want to bring it back to you here. In the industry, we've had time and time again where we want to manage a heterogeneous environment. It's been Don Quixote chasing after that dream. Tell us how do we pull that together and where do we live? >> I think you guys were talking about the fact that developers expect this Kubernetes dial tone today, and that's driving infrastructure choices. One of the things that we need to do as infrastructure people is make that real. In other words, it's all well and good to develop an application on a Kubernetes infrastructure, but now how do I turn that into a production service that is helping me drive revenue, for example. What we need to do is operationalize that, in a way that can bring that to life, and bring that to life in a production way. That's really where we're going with PKS, on VCF, on VxRail. So PKS on VCF allows organizations to actually automated fashion deploy a Kubernetes cluster. So what that does is allow organizations to now suddenly bring their investment in what they've been doing in virtualization today, and bring that toward this next generation containerized-based applications. This is key because in order to, for example, stand up a Kubternetes cluster, and then make that into a production service, there's just tons of moving parts. So why not automate that in a fashion that essentially takes all of the stress out of that Day Zero. And then, furthermore, when it comes to Day Two, and making sure that's up to date, making sure that you can patch that. For example, if there's a critical bug, you want to be able to do that in an automated fashion as well, because there's just so many moving parts that it's impossible to keep track of all this stuff manually. >> Bob, there's so many changes that go through when we're moving to that environment where it's going to change a lot more. We think about management. It used to be, oh, okay, I know where the server lives. Wait, VMs fly all over the place with VMotion of containers, by the time you go looking for it, it feels like it's trying to measure the speed and direction of an atom. You can't pin it down. But the one I want to get you, from a customer along that journey, the consumption model has to be something that is changing along the lines. How does the infrastructure, how do we make sure it can scale like the cloud, and how can I pay for it like that, that flexible model? >> That's pretty interesting, because we see a couple of things. Organizations come to us and say, I'm all in uncloud. Okay, what do you mean you're all in uncloud? Well, there's two things that come out, right? One is elastic capacity, the ability to expand as needed. The other one is metered use. In other words, I only want to pay for this stuff when I'm actually using it. We're providing a couple of ways to get there today with Dell Technologies Cloud. One is this Data Center as a Service offering that we've been discussing, which is VMware Cloud on Dell EMC. The other one is flex on demand, and flex on demand is an offer that we'll bringing to the table for traditional customer-managed infrastructure that allows organizations to essentially only pay for the nodes that they're using in their on-premises cluster. We believe that being able to deliver that, whether it's on-prem with traditional infrastructure, or in a public cloud environment, which organizations clearly have voted with their dollars on, is key. So that's what we're bringing to the table with Dell Tech Cloud. >> It's clear you guys are building that out and running as fast as you can (laughing) to get it done. The final thought I want to get your guys to weight in on, the show this week. What's the big takeaway from your perspective? Obviously Pivotal is big news into the fold with VMware is going to be a really strategic opportunity for VMware to go that next level with developers and then figuring out, connecting the dots there. What's the top stories that you're seeing, that people, that you're walking away with from the show this week? >> For me, it's really you don't have to choose. In other words, organizations are looking at containerization and saying, wow, next generation applications are going there. Maybe I should be shifting everything over there. And yet they're saying, gosh, I've got all this existing infrastructure, what am I going to do? So really, PKS on VCF is allowing organizations to say, I can have existing virtualized apps living right next to my emerging containerized applications, and use existing infrastructure, existing skills in order to get there. And I think really you don't have to choose. You've got a path forward from where you are today, into this next generation of cloud-native applications is really exciting, and that's what we're >> John, your thoughts. >> bringing to the table. >> I think organizations, customer organizations, need to re-evaluate who VMware is, and what they can do for them. Pivotal's always been about business outcomes for our customers, and those outcomes come through developing software to drive the business. VMware has reached out to developers in the past, but that's really on steroids now. >> They've really had a ton of success there because they're operators. But they've always been a software company. VMware is, at heart, a software company. >> Right, but I always think of marketing as save money, make money (laughing) but go faster. VMware's been amazing at helping folks to save money, go faster. >> I think the Pivotal relationship's going to be really important for VMware. I think it's going to completely change the game. We'll be tracking the progress. Thanks for sharing, thanks for coming on. Thanks for the insight, here on theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, and more of the live coverage from Vmworld 2019 after this short break. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live, from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high-tech coverage, It's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware, and its ecosystem partners. >> And, welcome back here on theCUBE, we're at the Moscone Center here at downtown San Francisco. Gorgeous day outside, by the way. Picture perfect day. Chamber of Commerce weather, but a lot of big news happening inside here for VMworld 2019, along with John Troyer. I'm John Walls, we're joined by Pierluca Chiodelli, who's the Vice President of Product Management at Dell EMC. And, Pierluca, good to see you, Sir. >> Thank you, it's awesome to be here. >> Great, thanks for being here. And Muneyb Minhazuddin, whose the VP of solutions product marketing at VMware. And Muneyb, I know you're right just hot off the presentation stage. >> Yes I am. >> Catch your breath, it's all going to be fine. How was your audience? I'm sure standing remotely. >> Yeah, it was thirteen hundred plus >> Excellent, yeah. Been a big week, already. >> Of course it has, yeah. >> For you and your team. So, first off, let me just, let's step back, talk about the vibe of the show, the theme of the show we saw Pat on the stage. >> Muneyb: Perfect. >> About an hour and a half this morning, just your thoughts about day one and the big announcements that VMware's been making. >> It's been a great week, and it's actually been a great approaching week. As you know, on Thursday we announced intent and acquire both Pivotal and Carbon Black for close to about $5,000,000,000. So, that's, kind of a big announcement by itself, and then how do you kind of bring in and keep day one where you're not too focused on those two, but get the narrative of VMworld across. And really, you know, where we have, you know, CUBE has been with us on this journey for a long time. >> Right. >> We've seen that data center shift into kind of two tangents. One is, you know, workloads into data center break out into public clouds. Second, rerouting into cloud native applications. And, if you've seen our strategy wall when that was kind of the key messages. Hey, we're embracing both the modern app development, the focus on Kubernetes and Tanzoo announcement, was all about to say, "VMware platforms ready "for the breakout of both tangents." First, Cloud Native, we've got Kubernetes, we're bringing it right into vSphere, so that everybody in the audience can support it. Second, the breadth of our cloud everywhere, right, so, we've gone from Amazon to IBM to Google to Ajour. So, it'll give you the infrastructure for your workloads to be your choice. Modernize or migrate. (chuckles) That was a key message for us to kind of land today. For a lot of our audience who are kind of stuck in that same piece of, "What am I doing with my workloads? "What is that platform I got to build on?" And, you know, the key foundational platform being VMware Cloud Foundation. Right, that was our strategy, and I think last year we called out VMware Cloud Foundation in Pat's keynote, because I wrote it 44 times. (laughs) (group laughter) We didn't do it that many times, this time. We only said that's the platform that lands in Amazon, GCP, Ajour, IBM, and 4,200, you know, cloud provider partners. That gives you really that public cloud extension. The second part being modern apps, Kubernetes is a new, kind of, modern app development platform, vSphere is embedded into that project pacific and the whole Tanzoo announcement, right? So, really, a powerful message, what do you think? Was that successfully landed? >> I think so. John, do you feel good about what you heard today? >> Yeah, absolutely, I think VCF is super interesting. I'm also kind of, so there was an announcement today also about the Dell Technologies Cloud Validated Designs for using VCF. So, VCF the layer, which is kind of the VMware stack with some extra magic in it, that can be in, can make a private hybrid cloud, you know, everywhere. So, talk to us a little bit about Dell Technologies Cloud. As I call it, "DTC." The, it's a lot, there's a lot of stuff in that as well, so, but we have two very complicated solutions stacks that are, we're talking about now, so. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Can you talk a little bit about the validated design and what came out of that? >> Absolutely, so before we go into the validated design, I think it's very important as Muneyb said. When we think about the Dell Technology Cloud, really, it's a component of the best (murmurs) technology from our storage, networking, and also compute, but we did the VMware VCS on top. So, we work very closely with VMware, and today we are announcing today the Cloud Validated Design. As we announce at the Dell Technology World in May, we said Dell Technology Cloud is this, now we want to tell to the people, how you can easily deploy this. What is make this tangible? So, what we are doing today is rapid time to value. We did design and pretested configuration, that we put in Dell Technologies Cloud Validated Design, as we said. The other important things as Muneyb said, right? It's... And, I heard this also from theCUBE. There was a debate with Stu and other people about, what is the Cloud? How I deploy the Cloud? When we think about Dell Technologies we speak with different peoples, and two set of peoples. One is the app, right? The Cloud app, all the app people that, they want to build have all the automation, DevOps operation and all these things. But, behind those people, there's still an infrastructure. So, we are speaking on both things. So, it's very important this paradigm is there, where you can have people that they can consume the technology, and understand how to build the infrastructure to be automated, and build that automation for the Cloud. So, that's what is the Dell Technologies Font Validation Design. Right. So, one of the biggest things here that we announced, is not only the Cloud Validation Design. It's the first one but also the ability to have compute, storage and network together, and also use it primary storage as a primary citizen of the VCF. So, we should talk about that later but that's-- >> Absolutely, and I think to catch onto that, you know, talking about the applications et cetera, you know, again, in the evolution of Cloud, and we've been on the journey for 10 years is, we've had, the first few years of the Cloud journey was, felt a little like a one way street, which was, kind of meant where people were shutting down data centers and going to all these public cloud providers, was always a one-way street. Now, VMware, and if you followed us closely, we had a service call VMware, you know VCHS, which is VMware Hybrid Cloud Service before the vCloud Air and then we came out with this solution, right? The idea was, we thought there's going to be movement back-and-forth but it wasn't the case. People were seriously shutting down and going one way. As we made all these partnerships of you know, Amazon, IBM, we started seeing, and you heard stories of IHS, Freddie Mac on stage where they take six weeks to move 100 applications one way into the Cloud, customers started asking us some questions, say, 'If it's so easy to go that way, is it also that easy to bring it back?' >> Come back! >> Right? And, that kind of lead to the whole kind of Dell partnership, Dell announcement within the Dell Cloud Foundation, you know, VMware Cloud Foundation, Dell Technologies Cloud Platform to say that, "Hey, it's actually..." There's a notion of not going from hardware-specific, you know, just high-tuned for workloads to commodity hardware in the Public Cloud. There's now a need for having common hardware platform on both on-PRAM, off-PRAM because there is a need for customers to take EC2 workloads or, you know, Ajour workloads and bring it on PRAM again. That was just a notion of how fast it is. I add that point because it is so critical to know that your hardware is performing in tuned, to perform for a high business critical applications. People forgot about them the first few phases of going to the Cloud, and now as they think about a hybrid, true hybrid Cloud nature, they want optimal performance in the software layer, in the hardware layer. You know, hence our announcement of Dell Technologies Cloud, Cloud Foundation, Validated Design. It's really supporting that customer notion. >> So, it's like this optimal, or maximized flexibility is what you're trying to give people. I mean, is that-- >> Pierluca: With the Cloud simplicity, that's really the key. >> But what drives that? I know that you have, you've, you know, whether you're on-PRAM or you're off-PRAM, you're going to decide what workload's going to go on what space on, so forth, but is some of that kind of hedging bets for future workloads because you can't predict where they're going to be done or where you want them done? Or is it just providing flexibility today, and let's not worry about tomorrow? You know, it just seems like there's a lot of runway here, if you will. >> Yeah, and I think there's no right or wrong answer. One of the big workshops I do with our customers is really kind of say have you figured out what's your three to five-year application strategy? Because again, in that first phase of that fast migration to the Public Cloud, people were just like CIOs I know, it's like, I have a cloud for strategy, what does that mean? I'm shutting down all data centers, I'm going to the Cloud. Right or wrong, and that's my Cloud First strategy. Now, what they've come to realize is not all workloads work effectively in the Cloud, right? So, they kind of like, hey, put an application strategy to say what are the most optimal applications that will get the benefit of Cloud? These are like, e-commerce retail. They have to have, you know, Black Friday, expanding elasticity. If you got no slow, mundane, you know backend processes doing batch processes of massive storage of in a bank ledger in the back end, they're not going to get that elasticity. I know what it is, I know how many, you know, batch processes I got to run. So, people are getting smarter about which ones get the benefit of, you know, modern app development, or Cloud elasticity, which ones don't really need to have that. So, we've seen best practice customers actually have a very good app strategy, three to five years, and then decide how much of my app strategy is gone to the right, you know, or gone to the left, right? It's pretty much to say, "I don't have to change." 60, 70% of my Eastern European customers, their banking ledgers are still on mainframes. They're not in a hurry to go to the Cloud, whereas, you know Fintech on the East Coast is going, "I'm going to the, I'm going to the Cloud", right? So, it's really that strategy that's, they should take the app strategy and decide what the infrastructure strategy is on the top shelf. >> I think from the storage business, we see that really clear, right? The app is definitely what is moving the things, right? It's not, people they're not thinking anymore because the transformation is in the way that you consume the infrastructure. They not thinking anymore about what I put there, but is about what app I need to run, how I build my app. So, it's the environment. And, I don't think personally I meet a lot of customer. There is not one right way or wrong way, it's an end, right? As you can see also in VCF we have Vsend, VxRail and primary storage. If you look at two years ago, we will be sitting here and say, you know, "It's only this, not the other things." When we, I been in governor conference, three years ago was like, it's all Cloud. It's reality is the world, the information technology world is always the same, where is a natural genius things. Because people, they need to have the trust, right? You cannot run your entire things on something that you don't know or you didn't prove. So, what we give here today with our technology is the flexibility. You can have a Cloud approach, but use the trusted PowerMax, for example, in conjunction with Vsend, in conjunction with the Unity. So, not all these is the proof that you can preserve your investment. But, is the proof that you can start to build those up. And, if you've seen what paths say today, then those app can live everywhere. So, you can go, you can move, it's much easier to move, and you can just trust what you're doing. >> And, you hit an important point on the move part, right? And, people are so easy, like, "Hey I moved a thousand applications in six weeks "to VMC and AWS." The fundamental notion where that was not possible before, was compute, network, storage. Like, we've been doing vSphere for a long time, you know that. And, it wasn't that easy because what used to happen is people thought, "Hey, a virtualized computer, I can move it." But, what did not happen as you moved that, was your databases, you know, your storage, rules didn't follow you into the Cloud. Your networking QOS and, you know, policies, and you know, priorities didn't follow you into the Cloud. So, that was kind of like, you know, you know, I'm an Australian, so it was a half-assed solution, right? (group laughing) So bear with my language, right. It was a half-assed solution, but really what needs to happen is your compute, your network, your storage has to all work together. And, that's where Cloud Foundation was powerful. And, what we're lighting with this Validated Designs is also that capability that your computer, or storage is one unit from a app. Once you package it and make it available in all the platforms, then that migration becomes six weeks, two weeks to move that. Because once you break it apart, it's a nightmare. There's not a lot of folks who have survived database migrations. (laughs) >> I mean maybe Pierluca, you can kind of sum us up here. This conversation's been a lot around evolution, right? And, there's also been an evolution of data center design and what to expect with that, you know, just buying things off the shelf and getting a Var and, you know, the VMAX, and we've been through this whole, and now, we've talked about VxRail, which can be part of this solution. But, can you talk, just, maybe, take us in, take us out with the, or into the future with the Dell Technologies Cloud as the idea of the Validated Design, the idea of this stack from Dell Technologies in storage et cetera, what can we expect in the near future? And, how much guidance will folks get? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, without breaking any NDA things, but this is only the first step. So, the Cloud Validated Design is just the first step where we said, 'Okay, we are tasked in this, "we putting this together." We are working very closely to also solve the entire things that VCF allow you to do first day deployment, allow you to expand the infrastructure, and allow you also to do life cycle management. For example, with the VxRail we already have the life cycle management part. We are working in way to do that also for our storage and other things. So, if you think about that then it becomes as you said, all the policy we put, like with Vworld, will be strategically in that sense, the policies can be carried over. So, then you can go to VMC, you can go to another place where the software and infrastructure can move back. So, because people can do this on PRAM, a replicate exactly but not only replicate the application, but replicate the (murmurs). What do you do on the QOS, all these key things that makes people running enterprise application, right? So that's, I think, it's very exciting moment. I think it's just the starting of this dream. >> Absolutely. >> Gentlemen, thanks for the time. >> Thank you. >> And you're all, you paint a pretty exciting future, don't ya? >> I hope so. >> So, I can't wait to look forward to even VMworld 2020? >> Wait 'til Barcelona, come on? (laughs) >> All right, well I'm not making that road trip, so unfortunately-- >> We going to more out there. >> But, Barcelona's going to be good. >> Yes, thank you for having us. >> No, I'm not the best guy, so, all right good. Hey, gentlemen, thank you for the time. >> Thank you >> Thank you. >> I appreciate it very much, great discussion. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for having us. >> Back with more from San Francisco right after this. (techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with John Furrier coming to you live from Dell Technologies World 2019. This is our third day of coverage from two CUBE sets. What do you call that John? >> CUBE Cannon. >> CUBE Cannon of content. And guess who's back? One of our alumni Shannon Champion. >> Hello. >> Director of Product Marketing Dell EMC, Shannon thank you so much for joining us. >> A pleasure as always. >> Day three you still have a big smile on your face. >> I do do, it has been exhilarating, I'm completely exhausted but I'm thrilled to be here talking with you. >> You don't look exhausted but we're thrilled to have you. >> Thank you. >> So everything started, talking about cannons, Michael came out on Monday morning with all the gang, lots of news, lots of information that we've heard throughout the last three days, people are very excited about this. Excited about the deeper collaboration within the Dell Technologies companies. But something that you guys announced that we want to kind of really break through is Dell Technologies Cloud, VMware Cloud on Dell EMC, can you help me as a non-technologist understand those two differences, consumption model. >> Absolutely yeah, so it's all in a name really, Dell Technologies Cloud is the unification of the strategies between Dell EMC Cloud and VMware Cloud, one unified cloud strategy called Dell Technologies Cloud. Under that there are offers. So there's two categories of offers, one is the Data Center-as-a-Service, the fully managed, on-prem infrastructure where VxRail is the foundation. People know this as Project Dimension announced last year, it now has a formal, VMware Cloud on Dell EMC. So it's an offer underneath the category of Dell Technologies Cloud. >> And the VxRail components, explain VxRail for a minute, I think that's super important, it seems to be everywhere a key part of the architecture. >> It is yeah, so if you are here at the show, you've seen that VxRail is everywhere, it's on stage in lots of demos and it is the core foundation of our Dell Technologies Cloud offers. The collaboration between Dell EMC and VMware to bring VxRail to market kind of showcases the power of what this partnership can do. So it makes sense that this tightly integrated enterprise grade hyper-converged platform is the foundation of these Dell Tech Cloud offers. >> What's some of the use cases that was really driving the project, obviously multiple clouds was a key message here, but what was some of specific use cases you guys were really attacking? >> Sure, so when you look at the Data Center-as-a-Service offer, it's the fully managed capabilities. So customers are going to public cloud for the simplicity, agility, that cloud-like operations. But we started to see customers slowing down the adoption of that to some extent because they needed the security and the control of having infrastructure on premises and that's what we do with Data Center-as-a-Service, basically deliver the benefits of both, in a monthly subscription type model where they have all the infrastructure on premise but they get the benefit of a public cloud-like experience. >> And that's in beta, the announcement in the news was that Project Dimension, now Data Center-as-a-Service, which I love that name by the way, I think it's going to be great. But it's in beta, what does that mean beta? Select customers, preview, what's specific? >> Yeah, it's in beta phase, we have a couple customers that are running it today, so we're looking for customers to help shape the future, help us prioritize, you know, what are the key use cases that they're seeing a need for this technology. So we're looking for a few good companies still, so if anyone's out there interested, hit up our reps. Yeah, it'll be available in the market in the second half of this year, but currently in beta. >> It seems to be great for the edge, shipping a data center is almost like, okay with all this new technology, the bundling's literally nice, you guys did a good job on that. Shipping a data center, it almost was a dream years ago, We'll just ship a data center to the edge. That seems to be the the big use case that people are talking about, the edge of the network's going to have more capabilities, moving data around is not the answer, 'cause of latencies and as Pat Gelsinger would say laws of physics. This is identified as a big sweet spot. Michael Dell commented the edge in the next 10 years is going to be explosive, is that pretty much the core kind of direction? >> Yeah, it's interesting, you know it's called Data Center-as-a-Service and edge is a key use case for Data Center-as-a-Service, but also the core data centers when we are polling our customers they're actually telling us, they have a need for this in both locations, so both are key use cases, the edge obviously for the reasons you pointed out too. >> So talk to us about the customers involvement in the manifestation of Project Dimension. We've been hearing a lot the last three days, you really even felt it on stage from day one. Collaboration, not just within the Dell Technologies companies, we saw Microsoft. But where are the customers in terms of influencing Project Dimension now becoming a reality? >> Sure yeah, I mean this has been a collaboration with customers, but also between Dell EMC and VMware jointly with our joint customers going out to talk to them about the possibility and the promise and the capabilities that are being delivered. So certainly a joint effort from both companies along with our customers to give us feedback in terms of you know, where they see this as a key use case for them. >> Customers just looking for tighter integration, tighter collaboration, what are some of the business imperatives, where your customers are saying, hey guys, this is really the way to go here and here's why. >> Yeah I mean I touched on it a little bit in terms of like, the transparency, the security, the control, the data latency, improvements of having infrastructure on premises whilst still wanting sort of that agility and simplicity of a public cloud-like operating model, and that's essentially what's driving this new category of infrastructure consumption, Data Center-as-a-Service. And we have a whole nother side of Dell Tech Cloud, which is the Dell Technologies Cloud platform and we deliver that through VMware Cloud Foundation on VxRail, so I mentioned VxRail's kind of everywhere, that offer is available today for customers on premises. And with VxRail it's really the only VMware Cloud Foundation infrastructure offering that has full stack integration, we're calling it full stack integration because there is a set of software capabilities for VxRail that tie together what VMware does with the SDDC Manager automation together with the infrastructure management VxRail through RESTful APIs, through software that integrates the two. So for customers, they have a complete seamless all in one management experience with cloud foundation on VxRail. So, we're really excited about that and it's only been shipping for two weeks and already customers are willing to be reference customers for us, talking about the potential, the promise, wanting to work with us on what this could mean for their organizations. >> Was going to ask you about their reactions. >> Give us some feedback on the customer, I'd love to hear what they're saying, obviously demand, what's the main euphoria around it? >> Yeah so, hybrid cloud is part of every customer's strategy and really understanding how they can best get there, what's the simplest and the fastest way for them, has been what they're considering. And if you look at what we're doing with VMware Cloud Foundation on VxRail, we have a fast and simple way and they back by the promise of both Dell EMC and VMware working together to bring these two technologies in a unified way that's a seamless experience. So, you know the power of hyper-converged is to let businesses get out of the, maintaining the infrastructure so they can focus on business outcomes. The same is true for other use cases like hybrid cloud. So that's what customers are excited about there. >> Yeah Pat Gelsinger says "don't look down, look up." Meaning if you can take advantage of the modernizations of hyper-converged which you guys have been doing for a while, the packaging's more consumable and you bolt on the VMware piece. So then you got consistent cloud operations, but then can focus in on the software. This is the dream of software defined data center, this is what people had hoped for, I think two years ago, but it's kind of, come in now this is reality. >> This is reality, for sure. >> So it sounds like, you've got nearly what 5,000 VxRail customers, it's over a billion dollar run rate, are customers looking at VxRail as a foundational component of really accelerating their modernization of their IT and their data center. >> Yeah, that's been the core of what VxRail's delivered since the start, so it's three years old, as you mentioned nearly 5,000 customers to date. It's the fastest growing HCI system, thanks to that strong customer adoption. But really it's been a catalyst for data center modernization to date. And what we're talking about this week is how it's really going beyond an HCI appliance. So it's the foundation for hybrid cloud for the Dell Tech Cloud offers. And we're also offering up additional deployment options, so people think of VxRail as an appliance, but now they can get it as fully integrated rack with or without networking and if they choose Dell EMC Networking, they get the power of SmartFabric Services integration, for hyper-converged networking can be a pain point now it's fully automated, deployment, life cycle management as part of the full stack, so lots of options. >> Talk about the software innovation, 'cause we've been hearing and this has been happening, they've done a software transition, there's more software engineers than hardware engineers these days, you guys have the system software and some analytical software, how does that play in on the HCI side and where's that sit on the VxRail side, is it on the stacks, so where is your software piece? >> Yeah, thanks so there's really great software innovation from the PowerEdge side from the VMWare vSAN side, but we also have additional software innovation, specifically for VxRail that kind of ties those things together and that now includes VMware Cloud Foundations. So there's things like the RESTful APIs that I talked about that enable VMware Cloud Foundation full stack integration, that also have downstream connectors that allow networking automation. But now we're introducing another piece of software innovation that we're calling VxRail ACE. Analytical Consulting Engine, so you know, it's a marketing term, but what does this do, it's intelligent analytics to further simplify operations. We like to call it infrastructure machine learning for VxRail. So we're excited, we have a data lake, it has an analytics engine and historical data of how customers have been using VxRail to date. Now we're able to have enough data to apply machine learning to that and offer up customers insights into how to best optimize their configurations, forecast consumptions, I was just talking with some customers in a session before about how a few years back they would try and project their resource consumption over a five year period and now they can't even look six months ahead. So a tool like this can help them forecast it. At what point in time am I going to need to add more drives or add more nodes based on my current usage rates and that's pretty powerful technology. >> And with the consumption model changing too to the subscription, this gives them more agility on both sides, proactive planning and also understanding kind of what's going on. Not look back six months to a year like, well we should have bought or over-provisioning, the old days right? >> Yeah exactly yeah, that's good a point. >> So what's the future hold, tell us about where this is going to go next. Obviously selling like hot cakes, congratulations. >> Thanks. >> What's next, where's the next innovation coming, what's going on? >> Yeah I mean, like I said, we're seeing VxRail as more than just a catalyst for data center modernization, a lot of customers are going to keep choosing it for that turnkey simplicity. But we're now enabling fast and simple hybrid cloud and as edge use cases start to emerge, VxRail as a hyper-converged infrastructure has a lot of promise there too, so we really see it as a opportunity and a foundation for a wide range of use cases with our customers. >> So a lot of customers as we mentioned. Any favorite stories that really showcase how VxRail as a foundation for hybrid cloud, customer's cloud strategies, how it's really enabling them to unlock the data capital as it's been talking about here as obviously data has so much potential, but if you can't find it and you can't harness the insights. Any customer stories that really in your opinion speak to, this is really unlocking customer's data so that they can make better decisions, identify new revenue streams and ultimately deliver an awesome customer experience. >> Yeah definitely, I mean we have over 25 VxRail customers here at the show telling their stories throughout. It's hard for me to pick a single one. You know what's interesting is when we just had a session, we had two customers there and we asked them what are the business drivers that VxRail is enabling for you? They both, completely different industries, one is an insurance industry and one was a financial services industry, and they both came back to the same premise of I need to deliver IT services faster to my customer base and I can't spend time being in the business of maintaining the infrastructure, I just need automation that enables me to let my teams accelerate the pace of innovation and stay competitive. So, that's the role that it's playing. >> And in any industry, because as we know, every company these days, if they're not technology companies already, they need to be. >> Yeah that's true, yeah we were just talking about IT as a business, how IT leaders really need to work hand in hand with the CEOs, understand the business strategy and then create their own IT strategy. And really drive a culture around a business plan specifically for IT and technology. Which is a really interesting way to think about it. >> I was going to ask you about cultural change, as we all know that's very challenging to do. These two customers that you mentioned did they talk about that at all, like how it's actually enabling cultural change that drives the business forward. >> Yeah they did actually and you know, the core there is that people is harder to change than technology and tools and processes. Some of the tips that they had were really insightful, one of which is, a lot of people fear change. But if you can inspire them to fear obsolescence more than fearing change, then you can motivate them around that, but also creating a vision for them around what their role will be when they're not maintaining infrastructure will also help kind of inspire them to do things differently. So that was pretty cool to hear directly from customers around how their innovating, inspiring their people. >> Competition real quick, obviously HCI's been very competitive, new other vendors are out there, we know who they are, how do you guys fit in versus the competition, obviously the differentiators, the multiple piece parts of Dell Technologies. But where's the real innovation and competitive advantage that you guys are putting out there? >> Yeah, from a VxRail perspective it's easy. There's no deeper integration with VMware. All customers pretty much are VMware customers, a majority of them right? And being jointly engineered with VMware gives us inherent advantages and an experience that customers come to us and tell us, is superior to others that they're able to find, so we always go back to that and we get validation from our customers on that too. >> Okay Shannon as we wrap up here in the last few seconds. What are some the things you're personally going to be taking away as you hop on that red-eye tonight? >> Personally, I think Dell Technologies World is like the culmination of so much hard work of a ton of people, so I'm going to send a ton of thank you notes to all the people that made this happen, but really reflect on how exciting a time it is in technology, in what we're doing in hyper-converged that plays a role in everything that we've heard this week. And just be proud of what we're doing. >> Awesome, you should be proud, well Shannon thank you for joining John and me on theCUBE again this afternoon we appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Go get some rest. >> I will. (laughs) >> For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin you're watching theCUBE live from Dell Technologies World 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Cover Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE! Lisa Martin, day three of Dell Technologies World coverage on theCube. Two sets, lots of CUBE coverage, we're excited to welcome to theCUBE for the first time Andy Anglin, the Director of Cloud Strategies at Halliburton Landmark. Andy, thanks for joining me on theCUBE this afternoon. >> Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. >> So Halliburton, everybody knows the Halliburton name. In fact, Halliburton's celebrating their 100th year anniversary this year. >> That's right, it's a big year. >> It is a big year. Halliburton Landmark, talk to us about what that is. >> So Halliburton is obviously an upstream oil and gas services provider. Landmark is the business unit within Halliburton that provides petrotechnical software solutions to our customers. >> Okay, so customers all across the country, all across the world. >> All across the world. We work with NOCs, with work with independents, we work with the majors, we work with everybody. >> Okay, so, here we are at Dell Technologies World. How is Halliburton Landmark working with Dell Technologies? We're talking about digital transformation of your business, enabling your customers. >> So we're helping our customers through their digital transformation and one of the things that we're helping them do is move their petrotechnical workloads to the cloud. So we're leading the way right now in providing petrotechnical solutions in the cloud. We do that both on public cloud and on private cloud. And for our private cloud solution, which we call Landmark Earth, we've been partnering with Dell EMC for about four years now on building that solution. >> And this is a co-engineered solution. >> That's correct. >> Talk to us about that. What does that entail? >> So what we did was we worked with the Dell EMC engineers. Originally it was the VxBlock technology, but we've since moved it to the VxRail technology. We took that technology and we built the solution, built an appliance and took our blueprint, put that on top of that and then had the two groups work together to co-engineer that, to bring optimal performance and reliability. We're then able to deploy that anywhere in the world. So initially, most of the customers that were interested in it were the customers that were in locations where you couldn't find any public cloud. But now, because of the performance and the reliability that it's able to deliver, we have customers even in places like North America, where most people were originally looking to go to public cloud, now they're looking for the solution. >> So this sounds like it's giving you quite the competitive advantage. >> Absolutely, yeah. We were a little bit ahead of the competition in putting the solution together. We're looking to push to the cloud quickly. >> That's a good place to be, is ahead of the competition. You talked about kind of the speed, reliability, performance. What are some of the other really key values, business values, that your customers are gleaning from this solution already? >> So, couple things. One of things that we can deliver is faster time to value. So a lot of our customers have tried to go do something on their own, and generally speaking, they've met with a lot of challenges trying to do that. They try to build something themselves. It takes a long time. Ultimately it doesn't really work, and so what we can give them is a proven solution that we can stand up very quickly and deliver value to them very fast. The second thing that I would say is that we can significantly lower their total cost of ownership. >> That's always good. >> So our petrotechnical workloads are a little bit unique from some other industries. They're very heavily dependent on GPUs. So our customers are used to having these really massive, powerful workstations, with heavy duty GPUs in them. And in order to manage that type of environment, not only do you have the upfront cost of buying all these workstations, but you now have to go and manage all these workstations individually with these petrotechnical solutions that you've deployed on them, by leveraging a hyper converged infrastructure like we have with the VxRail. With the Landmark Earth appliance, we can provide all of that in a single hyper converged environment, so now you can manage it in one place. So the total cost of ownership, for ongoing operations, is drastically reduced. We also see performance increases that are pretty significant, like we mentioned before, because one of the major things that we do is we load massive amounts of data. And when you're in a client/server environment, that mass of data is coming from a database that's somewhere else. But when you're in a hyper converged environment, your compute and your data are sitting right next to each other, so we can significantly reduce the time to load that data. >> So, how much of this is sort of a cultural shift for the upstream oil and gas industry? >> Absolutely. So oil and gas industry has historically kind of lagged a little bit behind in terms of keeping up with the latest technology. The oil and gas downturn that we went through in the last couple years has really been an impetus to drive that technology transformation, and so a lot of customers are looking for digital transformation strategies in general. And as part of that, this is something that a lot of them are looking into. A lot of the customers that we go talk to are still using that legacy client/server environment, then this is something new to them. And, you know, they don't expect that they would be able to take something and virtualize it somewhere else and get better performance than what they're used to seeing on the front end. >> How is it also, I've mentioned a few minutes ago, this is Halliburton's 100th year. >> Yep. >> Partnership with Dell EMC. How is what you're doing with them and with the Landmark Earth appliance, how is that changing Halliburton's business as well, and even from a cultural perspective? >> So one of the things that's changed in our business model and how we do this, is that we actually leverage the same environment internally. So as our R&D teams are building the solutions, they actually will build and test them on the same type of appliance, which means that when we go deploy it to a customer, the customer's actually deploying the solution on the same environment that it was tested on in the first place. >> That must give them a lot of confidence. >> It does. >> That you've done this. You've established high performance, the results that they have to get. >> Absolutely, yeah. Because a lot of times, when you download software and install it somewhere, a lot of the typical problems that you may run into may just be from nuances or differences in the environment that you're deploying to. So by deploying in the exact same environment that it was built and tested in, it gives you a level of confidence that it's going to perform. >> So, speaking of confidence, how has your confidence changed over the last three days? Lot of announcements from Dell Technologies. We heard, even on the first day, Michael and Pat and Jeff and Satya Nadella from Microsoft. A lot of collaboration, a lot of integration as well >> Absolutely. >> Give me your perspectives on that and how you think it will influence the direction that you guys are going in. >> Quite honestly, I'm really excited to see where things are going. I mentioned before, we deliver solutions but in the public cloud and in the private cloud. And so one of the challenges that we face is being able to manage these workloads across these different types of environments, and a lot of the announcements that they've made have been about they can simplify that process and make it where I can manage workloads, and even move workloads, across different cloud platforms, without having to go build that capability myself. So I'm kind of excited to see where this is all going. >> What are some of the things personally that you're going to be taking away from this? >> Personally, for me, I'm going to go back and have some of my technical folks talk a little bit more about what we can do with the Dell Technologies Cloud and the VMware Cloud solutions that have been announced. >> And also with the announcement to VxRail, looking at it really as a foundational component of the Dell Technologies Cloud, which was just announced a couple of days ago, how does that potentially impact the appliance that you've built, leveraging that technology? >> So I think what it does, is it gives us the opportunity to integrate that into our broader solution around, with the different cloud platforms. Since we already leverage the VxRail technology today, we already leveraged the VMware software stack on top of that, but now what we can do is we can layer on another management layer on top of that, that would allow us to look at that across multiple cloud platforms, and that's pretty exciting. >> And then in terms of market opportunities, how does this open the door even wider for you? As we talked about, you've got a lot of customers, you've been around for a long time, it's a well-established industry, who are still using a lot of legacy practices. What you've heard this week, how do you think that kind of kicks the door open for Halliburton Landmark? >> That's actually a great question. I mentioned before that, initially, most of the customers that were interested in the private cloud solution were in places where we didn't have public cloud And now, we're seeing more customers, even where there are public cloud capabilities, coming back to the private cloud because of either data privacy concerns or performance concerns or whatever, which we can deliver. But if we can actually manage this across multiple cloud platforms, then that enables you to create a hybrid cloud approach, where you could have some workloads in the private cloud and some workloads not in the private cloud, and could span out to public cloud for different things. So, for example, if you have workloads that are temporary in nature, so you don't have something that's permanent. You want something that you can send it out to public cloud and, you know, run a large scenario, some type of simulation on it, get some results back, and bring that back, but then use your private cloud environment to actually visualize the results of that. So, it creates some really cool opportunities. >> And the conversations around emerging technologies, AI machine learning, where are your customers, in the upstream oil and gas industry, where are they, with respect to embracing, acknowledging that there's a lot of potential there, I mean, the power of the cloud to harness the power of AI. Where are they with some of those emerging technologies? Is it still pretty early? >> It's something that everybody is looking into right now, right? So everybody is looking into how can these various digital transformation technologies be leveraged within the oil and gas industry. And there's a lot of opportunity, there's a lot of places where you can plug it in. For example, there's a lot of physics-based modeling that happens in the petrotechnical workflows, but using AI, now you can start doing some AI-based workflows in places where you need a faster solution, such as at the edge. So at the edge, where you might need some kind of a result quickly, and you don't have time to wait 'cause you have to make a decision at the well, you can now do that with artificial intelligence, and you can couple the two together. >> And speaking of edge, one of the things that Jeff Clarke said yesterday, and I have to say this in a Game of Thrones accent, the edge is comin'. But a lot of people have said to us the last couple of days the edge is already here. In the oil and gas industry, there's so much remote, where are customers in terms of embracing what Dell Technologies are saying, it's edge, core, cloud. >> So, the edge is absolutely here, the edge is real, and everybody has varying levels of sophistication at the edge today, and that's another place where there's a lot of effort going on to understand what's the best value for what we can do. So there are places where you need a solution that may not be as expensive, because of the existing investment that you have. There are places where you may be willing to go out and completely overhaul everything, put something new in. There's also greenfield opportunities, where you're building it from scratch and you have opportunities to put things in place. So everybody's looking into the best way to leverage that right now, and that's something that we're working with our customers on. >> So it's already here, it's not coming. Last question, Andy, for you. How does being a partner with Dell Technologies, how is that enabling your business? How do they help you deliver the solutions that you need to to impact your industry? >> So we've worked very closely together from the very beginning, from initially co-engineering the solution. You know, Dell would bring resources out, we would work together to optimize the solution to make it work. But even the sales motions, I mean, we worked together on marketing efforts, we worked together on our sales efforts. We have global teams that work together, we have regional teams that work together, and we bring all those groups together for every opportunity to make the best of it and provide a solution that works best for the customer. >> Sounds like a pretty collaborative relationship. >> It has been. >> Andy, thank you you so much for joining us on theCUBE today and telling us what you're doing at Halliburton Landmark. Pretty cool stuff. >> You're welcome. Thanks for having me. >> Oh, our pleasure. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from Dell Technologies World 2019. Thanks for watching. (synthetic rhythmic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Las Vegas for Dell Technologies World 2019. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, with Dave Vellante, co-hostman Dave. Great keynote, day one of three days. Great event. We got two more days of coverage. Our next guest is Jeff Clarke, vice chairman of Dell Technologies, Master of Ceremonies on the stage with Michael Dell. Great to see you again, CUBE alumni, welcome back. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, you're pretty busy. I know you're super scheduled up, so thanks for spending the time to come on. >> My pleasure, looking forward to it. >> So, break down what's going on here, because a slew of announcements, some game-changing announcements. Some new partnerships with Microsoft, in the end-user area, pretty positive, once competing with VMware, now tied in. Dell Technologies under the coverage with a full portfolio of services, massive macroeconomic tailwind around people refreshing their infrastructure for the Cloud. You guys are in good position. >> Oh, I think we are. Thanks for having us. To me, the biggest takeaway from this morning's keynote is the level of integration and alignment across Dell Technologies and all of its assets. We built upon that and gave two very specific examples. Pat and I talked about, on the PC side, trying to address the needs of this new digital native workforce that's coming in to bear with no boundaries of how they want to work, where they want to work, and how to modernize the PC experience. And we introduced Dell Technologies Unified Workspace. And then the second announcement, which we're really excited about, is the alignment of our company around the Dell Technologies Cloud. And the fact that we announced a component of a platform, where VCF is integrated onto our VxRail products, and you can deploy that on-prem as a solution today. And then we talked about building on VMware's announcement late last year around Project Dimension, bringing Project Dimension into a reality, a data center as a service of the VMware Cloud on Dell EMC, Data Center as a service, backed by Dell Technologies. And then we expanded upon that with Azure Services on VMware. So, pretty busy morning for us. >> Yeah, Project Dimension, I want to ask you real quick about. I always said that that's a fantasy kind of project, because it was so radical, and early on, when you think about it, but it makes so much sense when you think, as a service, with software service, why wouldn't you want to have theCUBE as a service? Data Center? And everything is becoming a service, and that's now clear. But it's hard to do. That is an interesting product. I think that's certainly an edge product. You guys see that, clearly. But what's going to be the impact to customers? Because this is now kind of easier to manage when you think about deploying a data center. >> There's a couple things that I think are underway. One is, workloads are migrating back to on-prem. And those workloads come out of a public cloud, so the cloud operating model is something customers are familiar with. Now with our Data Center as a service product, we have a cloud-operating model that drives consistency and, ultimately, provides an operational hub from the edge to the private cloud reaching out to the public cloud. Then you can get that as a specific product, build out your own, or this managed service, as you just referred to, and we think that's a pretty compelling proposition to help customers, particularly in smaller deployments, whether it's on the edge, remote location, remote office. And it's a service fully backed by us, single price. And we think it has a huge advantage in the marketplace to help customers deal with fewer vendors or manufacturers to get a single solution from one, from the hardware to the software to the service and the support. >> So you talk about alignment across Dell Technologies. You were clear in the analysts' discussion today as to what your primary go-to-market is with regard to VMware on Dell. That was clear. And appreciate the concise, clarity answer. You also talked about barriers to integrating that you've removed. In some respects, you do a lot of things, and one of them is you're a fixer. What were some of those barriers, and what does that hold for the future in terms of momentum? >> I think the first barrier that I encountered when I began leading the ISG team, we fundamentally weren't aligned with VMware. We had a strategy, they had a strategy, and while we worked both for Dell Technologies, we saw the world differently. And Pat and I recognized that early on, and our working together, and we've began to wrestle with that. Quite honestly, Michael and I expected us to get that result, and we subsequently did. So now we have an alignment. We have the same strategy that we're deploying with the same common vision: how to make IT easier and simpler in this data era that we're in today. And then we built a technical framework of where we're going to collaborate. And quite honestly, we had to teach our teams how to collaborate, and what collaborate meant. It wasn't you met once a month and each went off in their corner, then came back and said, look what I did, look what I did, and maybe we had two different answers. We forced an operating cadence and mechanism where Pat and I get with the team on regularly scheduled meetings, essentially every other week, and drive technical collaboration across five key domains that we care about. That we think are most valuable to our customers. And we're leading by example and breaking down every barrier from go-to-market, to operational, to technical, who tests what, how do you define what the requirements are, what customers are retargeting, and align the teams along those vectors. >> One follow-up, if I may. I think we got tight on time, but I want to ask you about the client business. I want to get you on record on this. Very important part of your business, it's almost half of the business revenue. It's a lower margin business, but it's critical that you hold serve in the client business, because it absorbs a lot of corporate overhead. I wonder if you could talk about the importance of the client business to Dell Technologies and it enabling your ability to do all these other things that you want to do. >> Well, you talked about the financial components of why the PC business or client business is important to us. But let's not forget, customers want an end-to-end solution and one end of that solution is what's on the edge of the network, and the PC is still the primary productivity machine in business. I don't see that changing. So the ability to start from there, and then migrate across our stack to the core to the cloud, as you've heard us talk about that, is a difference-maker, a differentiator from us over every one of our competitors today, who may have this component, this component, or this component, we're in a unique position to bring that together. Then we can bring differentiated value by linking the seven assets of Dell Technologies together in a highly integrated way. We talked this morning about SecureWorks, Workspace ONE from VMware, RPCs, and then our total service offering around ProSupport and ProDeploy that stitches that together in a very differentiated way. That's what customers want, and we're able to do that. And that has components of the entire enterprise, per se. >> Jeff, I want to get your thoughts on the customer situation. Obviously, one of the keynote customers was Bank of America. I like how the CTO, how she said this. "It's not how we got here, it's how we go forward." This is really the digital transformation reality. The rules have changed a bit. Certainly, there's some tech that's coming to the table, that's going to be good for customers. But as you look at the trends, and it's pretty clear what we're seeing, you've got developers, and you've got operators. If you compartmentalize the different roles within the corporation, that seems to be the big ones within IT and operations. And then the workloads are the result of the developers that have to run on the operations. So, it seems that you guys have a clear view that you want to make that infrastructure be operationally consistent. That was one of the messages. >> Spot on. >> How are customers talking to you about this? Because, one anecdotal thing is Google, for instance, has their own cloud for their own search and everything else. They have SREs, Site Reliability Engineers, which kind of validates this notion that operations is highly critical with developers for those now multitude of workloads. Because Edge is going to spawn a huge amount of applications, we think. More workloads, small and big. So, existing workloads, new workloads are coming. How do you guys see the operation piece? 'Cause I think this is a real key point. >> Well, I think in simple terms, customers are asking us to help them drive out complexity in their operations, help simplify it so they can actually invest more in the types of technologies, the application, the development of things that differentiate their business. So, if you believe that to be the basis, which we do, then driving out complexity, having a consistent level of automation, a consistent operational model, a hub to be able to move workloads across any of those environments, we think is a real advantage, and it will lower their cost. They will have consistent infrastructure, a consistent software management stack, management or orchestration and automation, we think that's exactly what they're asking for. And the reality is, we just announced the ability to do it. >> And if you have the developers, you get revenue on top of it, so cost savings and revenue. Out of the customer conversations, could you stack rank the pattern of issues that come up that they're concerned about, that they're solving? Opportunities that are challenges today, opportunities tomorrow, what are some of the areas that are popping up to the top of these conversations? >> Cloud strategy. Security. How to do DevOps. Edge. And how to deal with all of this data. >> We've got a question from the crowd. Ask Jeff about sustainable innovation in Dell's work in transforming electronic waste into jewelry. I didn't know about that. And ocean plastic in the laptop packaging. That I did know about. I think the question came from somebody who works from you maybe. >> Maybe so. >> That's a good question. I didn't know, you're making jewelry? >> We've been on the forefront of what we call the circular economy, where you reuse materials that you introduced in the marketplace in new forms. Whether that's wheat straw, the byproduct of harvesting wheat and turning that into packaging. We announced at CES 15 months ago, recycling printed circuit boards, extracting the gold, and creating and providing that gold, in this case to a jeweler who made jewelry out of recycled printed circuit boards. Our commitment to use recycled plastics and to take all these plastic bottles and do something with the material, we have a high percentage of our products today that are built on recycled plastics. We have many examples, wonderful choices of PCs in front of you, has carbon fiber in it. The carbon fiber in the product is actually a waste out of the automotive industry that we reused to build out this product. So, we have a long tradition, and something that's very important to us, of building sustainable products, recycling materials, to be able to do that across our entire portfolio. >> Jeff, thanks for coming on theCUBE. I know you're tight on schedule. We appreciate the time. Final question, I'll give you the final word. What's the most important story here at Dell Technologies World this week in your opinion? >> Dell Technologies has a breadth of unique hardware, software, and services capability unlike anybody else across our seven strategically-aligned businesses that will help, ultimately, make customers' lives easier, simpler, and reduce complexity in their environments. >> And the numbers are showing its financial performance is looking good. Congratulations. >> Thanks, thanks for having me. >> Jeff Clarke, vice chairman of Dell Technologies, here inside theCUBE breaking it down, sharing his insight and commentary on the announcements and the event here at Dell Technologies. Stay with us for more live coverage. Day one of three days of two CUBE sets here on the ground floor of Dell Tech World. We'll be right back. (upbeat techno music)