(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi, everyone. Welcome to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, theCUBE Studios. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with two great guests, Carl Eschenbach, partner at Sequoia Capital on the board of Cohesity as well with the CMO Lynn Lucas. Lynn, great to see you. Carl, thanks for coming back on. >> Great to be here. >> Appreciate it. So Lynn, you know we've been following you guys for many many years, watching the rapid growth of Cohesity. Funding round after funding round, Unicorn. From a start up, to going through the atmosphere heading into orbit, nice growth. >> Mid-size company I would say now. >> Yeah >> Yeah >> No longer a startup. >> Growing like crazy. >> No longer a startup, yeah. >> Good round, good financing track. Thanks to Sequoia. >> Well, we're proud and happy investors and partners with them, that's for sure. >> Yeah, one of the things we're super excited about right now, Lynn I want to get your thoughts on this is that, how do you maintain the growth because cloud is an ever changing landscape, data management's really hot and changing. What's been the success formula for you guys, staying ahead? Both in terms of continuing to push the brand, push the message and success. What's been the formula? >> Well, I think it starts with our founder, Mohit Aron, and his vision and strategy which, if you go back, he's been extraordinarily consistent on and he saw this massive opportunity to take hyper-convergence, which of course he's really the father of from Nutanix and bring it to this whole other area of data, the vast majority of data that enterprises have. That is in all of these different silos and so really I think that Cohesity has this opportunity to be a once in a generation platform company much like VMware and really change the way enterprises, protect, manage, store and ultimately do more with their data. So, I'm going to say it's less about the brand. I'm proud about the brand. But, it's really about... >> You did a great job the brand, but I think the execution is. I think one thing I love about this market cloud in the next ten years ahead of us is that you can come into the market with a feature or a specific thing, like backup and turn it into a broad ranging high-growth, billions dollars of value. I think that's what you guys are on. But I, while we have Carl here, I want to put him on the spot because, you know, of his experience at VMware and now at Sequoia. What's he bringing to the table for Cohesity? What's his operational knowledge? What is some of the things Carl's brought to Cohesity? >> Oh, my gosh. >> What hasn't he brought. >> Well, Carl is obviously incredibly experienced and brings a wealth of go to market knowledge and connections and advice for us. I think instrumental in helping us see how to scale. As well as, change and shift the business model over to software and subscription. Which is what Cohesity did last year and is right in line with the move towards the cloud. >> Carl, your thoughts? >> I have to say one of the things just to echo, so thank you for those kind words. But quite frankly its all about execution and these folks at Cohesity know how to execute. If you just look at their scale over the last three years and their ability to execute. It's pretty impressive, not on the technology side only. But, if you think about their go to market motion and what they've not both here in the U.S., internationally, over into, you know, Asia and in Japan with the joint venture they have with SoftBank and some of the others. It's been amazing to watch them scale and to go market and also the ecosystem that they started to build around them and leveraging partners like HPE and Cisco as Cohesity has transitioned from being an appliance solution to being a software and data management platform and moving the hardware to other partners. It's been amazing to watch that transformation happen. So, it's technology, yes. But, it's also every other component and piece of the business that's been able to scale through good execution. >> Let's talk about the ecosystem, cause I think it's a super important, ever changing conversation. Especially as the bigger players get bigger and then the mid-size folks like you guys get bigger as well. The relationships change. You've certainly seen your share, Carl, at VMware. At VMworld every year, the ecosystem has its growth. It changes over, new value propositions are coming in. You have a constant rotation through the ecosystem dynamic. >> Yeah, no. >> What are some of the going on now that Cohesity's taken advantage of? >> What are they... >> Yeah, so because Cohesity is actually building a true platform as Lynn was articulating. If you're a platform in a data center it means two things. You have to partner with people on the south-bound side of that platform and the north-bound side of the platform because everything's going to go through a platform and because of that you form a very rich ecosystem but you also form sometimes competitors. In this world everyone I think describes it as friends and enemies. They're frenemies and they've done a very good job at that but at the same time they've really focused on key partners like an HPE or a Cisco or many others that can really differentiate themselves and allow them to focus on what they truly are and that's a data management software company. So, I think they've done a really good job navigating the ecosystem and building off of it and aligning with the right people. For example you sit here at VMWworld today. Look at the partnership they have with VMware they have V-ready, you know, certification across vsan, their infrastructure platform. Vcloud Director, AWS, you name it. So, I think they've done a great job and that's thanks to people like Lynn and the team. >> Lynn, talk about the ecosystem dynamic. Because you guys are actively market a big booth every year at VMworld as well as Amazon re:invent and other shows. You have to be out there. What are you hearing? What are some of the dynamics that your working through? >> Well speaking of VMworld and VMware they really were the original ecosystem partner and I think we believe that north of 70 percent of our customers are VMware customers and they're getting better value out of that. But, we haven't talked a lot about the cloud and that's obviously a massive ecosystem that's continuing to develop and bringing those two things together is something that Cohesity specializes in. With our native capabilities, with Amazon, Azure, Google but the other third piece of the ecosystem that we're now developing is the applications and that's unique to Cohesisty really redefining data management. Just announced Cohesity CyberScan based on Tenable running on the Cohesity platform. Prior to the, Splunk, running on the platform. So we're developing these ecosystem partnerships in new ways with application providers. >> So when are we going to see Cohesity world. (laughing) >> I am just so happy to be at Vmworld it's a great place for us to meet a lot of customers and partners. So we'll stay with that. >> Carl you were talking about, before we came on camera, about your first VMworld. You know, oh my god, it's huge, now it's even bigger. This is the opportunity for firms like Cohesity, if they continue the momentum. Building out applications which if you think about it that's an enabling technology. You can enable developers to be successful. That truly is a testament to what a true platform is. >> Yeah, again, I think, she said they don't have a big user conference yet. I don't think it will be long before we such momentum in the market that we will have a user conference at some point. Where you will see a large turnout of people using the technology. People from the ecosystem there and then developers as well and lastly you'll start to see application vendors like a Splunk or a Tenable who are actually now running their applications on top of this. This isn't just data management but it's also supporting applications and when you pull those three different you know constituents together you have a pretty big opportunity to pull off some type of platform show. >> Lynn, I got to put you on the spot here for a minute you got Carl, he's also a partner with Sequoia Venture Capital. What are the pros and cons with working with a big time tier one renowned VC like Sequoia is? Sequoia's Don Valentine is a well documented story. Moritz goes on, the young guns in there now. Get the operating experience from like the Carl's. Pretty established, they got a great business model, you know that. What's the pros and cons of working for the big time Sequoia. >> I've not seen any cons. Pros are as you said the operating experience and I think also the experience in guiding a company through this hyper growth. Cohesity is now well over 1200 employees. Last year, when you and I sat here much less than that, right? And they've seen it and done it before with other partners or with other portfolio companies that I think is one of the best pieces of advice that Carl has given us coming into our company is how to maintain that culture and that focus on the mission as we move through this tremendous growth phase. >> That's interesting, Sequoia loves you when your growing but then, but they've seen success. The cons haven't come yet. But, if you continue to grow there will be no cons. Everyone's happy and growing. But, I want to get your thoughts because Sequoia also builds world-class companies and they also, Apple the names are legendary. Your founder on theCUBE told me that he doesn't just want to get an exit. He wants to build world class company. >> That's right >> Well, exit is not as important as like EMEA. But in like public that happens. He's not in it for the cash. He wants build a durable world class company. >> That's exactly right, right Mohit has had a number of successes, Google, Nutanix. So he's not in this for the short return and we really are focused on building a culture and a set of values and a long term sustainable business and he really means what he says about. He's here to change the world and data is the foundation of what most businesses are going to compete on and he believes he can really empower organizations to do that and we can build a great culture and a great company while were helping. >> Carl when you hear that.. >> I want to piggyback off what Lynn just said and its exactly what Lynn articulated about Mohit to want to build a big enduring company that stands the test of time. If you look at our ethos at Sequoia we want to partner with founders from idea to IPO and beyond. We're not looking for a quit hit, a quick win. We want to be with them through IPO and beyond and build big legendary companies that stand the test of time and in the form of Cohesity we have that opportunity and we're well on that path to build a legendary platform company that will service both the enterprise in the cloud companies into the future. That's our mission, so I think our missions are aligned. >> Well you just answered the question I was going to ask you. That is music to your ears this is the kind of model you guys want and certainly you guys do a good job of exiting out on EMEA and doing, making your LPs a lot of money. You got to make money. >> Right, but, you know a lot of people think when our companies go public this is an exit for us. It's just an event. If we believe in the companies were going to hold long into the public market from that idea and that seed investment, like we did here at Cohesity, well beyond the IPO. >> There's a renaissance going on , I love it because two things are happening in this next 10 years. You seen a systems platform mindset come back versus the quick hits and also people want to build big companies they don't want to do the quick flips anymore. So at lot of young entrepreneurs are, they are in it for a mission. This is a new vibe. What kind of advice do you give entrepreneurs that are looking to bring that Cohesity model and get the attention of Sequoia? What are some of the things that you see as success for the young entrepreneurs out there? >> Yeah, so it is around the word mission. Like we want to partner with people that are mission driven that are going to have a huge impact on business and society as a whole and even you know the social efforts in our world. So were looking for people that want to change the trajectory of whatever it is they are addressing and we think for example with Cohesity there's a radical transformation taking place in the infrastructure and someone's got to innovate because a lot of innovators today are not coming from the incumbent it's coming from the next generation of founders like Mohit and he's very mission driven. Build a big company, service a community of people change the way people store and think about data and manage it and that mission-centric founder is one we love to partner with. >> Final question I'd love to get both your take on this question, Lynn and Carl is. When you meet someone that may not be inside the ropes of technology like the enterprise tech like we are the few and others and they ask you the question "Why is Cohesity so successful?" How do you describe the dynamics of the marketplace and Cohesity's role in it on it's success? What is the answer to that question? >> I think it's really two things. So one is I think that there is this generational shift in the architecture that underpins data and we've got a perfect storm with data doing exponential growth and as Carl's been saying there really hasn't been a lot of innovation in the infrastructure in more than a decade. Mohit saw that, but then that's combined with a mission, a passion for customers and sticking to that execution of serving the customer and that's making us successful. >> Carl your thoughts after that. >> Listen, it starts with technology and to have great technology you have to have a great technical founder and we have that in Mohit, time and time again. I can go, we've all talked about Mohit and how special he is. At the same time you need to build a company that has a special culture, that can stand the test of time, that is resilient, that has grit and has passion and perseverance for the work their doing around their mission and I think we have all of that in Cohesity and that's a lot of it's because of Mohit and people like Lynn that he's brought in around his executive team. You can just see that permeate through the entire organization. >> That's awesome. Thanks for sharing the insight. Carl, great to have you comment here with Lynn on Cohesity, I know your on the board. Lot of great things happening, looking to see what's happening at the VMware parties. Thanks for hosting some awesome events for the community. >> Can't wait to be back. Bring some of our customers on. >> Thanks for spending the time. This is theCUBE Conversation here at Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(bright music) >> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this a "Cube" conversation. >> Hello everyone, and welcome to this special "Cube" conversation here, in the Palo Alto "Cube Studios". I'm John Furrier, the host of "theCube", where a special guest, "Cube" alumni Carl Eschenbach was a partner at "Sequoia Capital", former head of "VMWare", running all the fields, COO, many tiles of "VMWare", great to see you Cube alumni. Thanks for coming in. >> It's great to be here, it's always fun to join you on "theCube". We've done a number of these and it's always good to do 'em in different settings and talking about different topics and companies. >> Love the studio love to talk about "VMWare", what they're doing "VMWorld's" right around the corner, it's here, >> Yep. On our doorstep. The market's changing, you're now doing a lot of investments at "Sequoia Capital", you're on a lot of big company boards. Cohesively you eye-path, you're on the front end of all the new trends, on the new waves. So, dated management has become super hot again, we were just talking some editorial around big data, early days had duped, how that kind of went its way but "Cloud" brought in a whole 'nother level of focus on data management. Really, it's still just as important, I've been seeing a lot of investments in this space. What's your view of the current landscape of the data management space right now? >> It's a great question, clearly, you know, there's a tremendous amount of data being created each and every day and the more data there is there's more opportunity to manage it and analyze it and actually use it to help drive your business into the future and drive revenue growth. So there has been a lot of investments, from the likes of "Sequoia", now there's around data and data management specifically like we did with "Cohesity." But I think data, just because there's so much more being created at such a rapid pace it's just become so valuable and every company is becoming a data and data management company because it's one thing to centralize your data. It's another thing to get it into one repository, but really what you want to do is to be able to manage it, analyze it to future predict where you're going to take your business going forward. >> You know, and one of the things that we're hearing all the time is that you don't want to bring data and dump it into a whole new system. It's got to not be non-destructive, that's been a very key thing. "Cohesity" has been one of those companies that just has risen really fast from start up to a rapidly growing company to a really strong high valuation, customer success has been phenomenal. You guys are in that, you're on the board of "Cohesity", was that obvious with those guys when you saw them, when the investment was there, what was the-- what interests you about "Cohesity"? What's the big focus? >> Yes, so there was a couple of things, let's start with-- always when you're doing an investment you want to look at the founder. What is the founder and what is his or her experience and what have they done in the past? And when you look at Mohit, there a very few founders of his caliber when it comes to infrastructure, data, data management. If you just look back, he was a rockstar at "Google", and in fact, you could-- many people can say he wrote the distributed file system for "Google" that it still runs on today. He left there after doing an amazing job and became an entrepreneur and co-founded "Nutanix", and wrote the, you know, file system for hyper converged infrastructure and then he said, "you know what? I've done that, I'm going to go do my third thing and I'm going to go and now build a company. And build a company that's going to disrupt a very fragmented market, starting with data storage and backup, but really build a platform for data management." And I think "Sequoia", I wasn't there when they led the initial investment and Bill Coughran, my partner, led the investment said, "you know, this guy is a rockstar, technically, there's not many better than him, and if he can achieve what his vision looks like today, he's going to build a big valuable company." And that's when we leaned in. So it started with the founder, it started with his experience, and then it started with what was he disrupting, and he was disrupting a legacy market in the infrastructure space that hasn't had a lot of innovation. So if you think it's the competitors of "Cohesity", its fun to compete in this market because a lot of them are legacy and they're trying to protect their legacy and they're not innovating and this is something that Mohit has done time and time again. In fact, it's probably the third time he's done it. >> He's a unicorn builder as we say here in "theCube" team, we loved him, he's been on "theCube" many times. But you're the new guy at "Sequoia", so they say, "Okay, Carl, you know the enterprise, you take it." >> Yeah. So you get on the board, it's interesting because his-- he's been on "theCube" and he's told me here, in studio that, you know, executing the entry strategy of the market with data backup and the normal-- the team was huge. But he had the vision, he saw that it wasn't going to be about data management backup and recovery, all that kind of categorical venture. He saw it as a bigger cloud place, sort of as a platform as you said. >> Yeah. What is the success formula for that because a lot of people try to compare, you know, this company that company and "Cohesity" has a unique differentiation. What's your take on that? >> The thing that's really unique about what Mohit and the team at Cohesity have created here is the fact that they've truly built the platform. A lot of people talk about building platforms and platform is like the holy grail in the enterprise because it's very sticky they've done it. Yes, they can do backup, but the fact that they have a distributed file system is scales, like, at web scale that can be used on premise, in the cloud in hybrid environments, the duplication, can do replication can do snapshot and cloning all that but most importantly what he's built is this platform that takes a very fragmented set of data, centralizes it, manages it, but then more importantly a lot of people say where's your data and where are you applications, he's built this platform to centralize data, and now what he's doing completely different than anyone else can do here, John, is he's bringing the actual application to the data. So you can now start to run applications on top of his platform, not just centralize your data, no one else can do that in the industry. >> I think that's one of the key things you see in these successful companies, and then Mohit again talked about-- you enter the market on a known beach head, good tan, but that's just the backup plan of it. >> Yeah. >> But they've been successful. And this has been a formula only a few companies have pulled off, "VMWare" was one of them where you were involved in from the beginning and "VMWare" virtualization has changed the game. And so I got to ask you being to having that "VMWare" history and legacy pedigree, as former CEO of "VMWare", where you've seen it from, you know, few employees to where it is today or when you left. What does "Cohesity" do for those customers 'cause remember "VMWare" was a very ecosystem friendly company. >> Yeah. But that ecosystem has been evolving, what does "Cohesity" bring to "VMWare" customers? >> It's really interesting because if you look at the workloads that are being backed up, supported, or the data that's being centralized on their platform, probably I'm guessing maybe greater than seventy percent of the workloads are VMWare workloads. So there's a tight relationship with VMWare technologically speaking because the amount of workloads and VMs that are being backed up on the "Cohesity" platform. But it goes further than that, there's a lot of commonality around how they go to market. They have a common set of channel partners that resell their technologies that do integration for customers, we have a lot of certifications. With "VMWare" we're VMware ready and certified on "vSAN" same with their hyper converged infrastructures stack. We're even supported are with the "VMWare" on "AWS" platform, we're "VMWare" ready certified for that too, to backup both on premise and off premise. So there are so many different areas we're integrated with VMWare both on go-to-market side and technically speaking, and then like I said, look at the amount of workloads that we're supporting, probably seventy percent plus are "VMWare" environments so, I think it's a really strong partnership and I'd say it's one of the stronger ones that "VMWare" has when it comes to building a data management back-up storage solution. >> The "Amazon" relationship with "VMWare" is certainly critical and "Cohesity" plays what, on both fronts there? >> Yes. So, actually there's three different solutions here. We are supporting "AWS", so "Cohesity" runs on "AWS". We support and we're certified with "VMWare", and then the three of us have come together and we're supported on the VMWare platform running on AWS to do backup and storage recovery for that as well. So there's three different ways those partners are in for. >> So Cohesity is not a public company yet so, and you're on the board so I'm going to ask you the board question. You're sitting in the board meetings, you know, CEO comes in, we're going to take that hill, this is where the future growth it. What is that conversation like? Where is the future growth for "Cohesity"? What does the future look like for them? What do they need to do? >> Yeah so, I do think it is around data management. We're still on the early innings, John, around data management. Backup clearly, I think they can crush the market and I think they're doing a good job competing against the more traditional players and even the emerging ones. We can differentiate ourself, but I think the real opportunity is to really go in with a point solution and then very quickly from that vertical entry go to a horizontal play and do data backup data recovery and data management and the more data we can take from this fragmented world and centralize it and then start to think about, wow we can bring things like "Splunk", bring applications to the data. Now try to move the data around to meet the applications, I think that is a rich opportunity and if you look at the go-to-market strategy of "Cohesity" one thing that's been very impressive to me having grown up for thirty years in the enterprise world, they started out selling to the enterprise, they're landing fortune five, fortune ten companies at scale with multimillion dollar deals as an entry point just to completely redo their backup architecture and how they're going to do data management. You don't see that too often. In three years, the revenue ramp this company's experienced is quite impressive, and I think they have a long way to go, and it's going to be on the back of data management going forward. >> You know, one of the things also they've done real well is they align with the community, they have great events. Their parties at "VMWorld" are legendary, reinventing. So, you know, they always-- they align, they work hard, they play hard but they get the job done. >> Yeah, no, they're known from what I understand, you know, they have a great CMO who you've met many a times, Lynn, she is not only a great CMO and a marketeer, but she knows how to throw a good party and there's always lines waiting outside the doors. A board member, I'm like, "Oh my god, how much did that cost?" But the amount of leads we get out of it, it's a no-brainer. >> Final question, how's it been as a VC? What's it like there? How's life been for you? >> Oh, I feel very fortunate, John. To be a partner at "Sequoia." It's one of the greatest, if not, greatest venture capital firm of all time, forty six years of rich history and to be part of it has been a blessing for me, and I get to bring all of my many years of operating skills to many younger companies. I get to see a lot, get to learn a lot, get to invest in some of the most exciting up and coming companies like "Cohesity" or "Snowflake" or "UiPath" or "Zoom" that's now gone public. I couldn't be happier and be more excited with what I'm doing and the ability to learn everyday from some great partners at "Sequoia." >> You surely got the mightiest touch and great experience in the enterprise; the company's lucky to have you like "Cohesity," congratulations . >> Thank you. >> Thanks for bringing the insight here on "theCube," I'm John Furrier, you're watching a special "Cube" conversation here in the Palo Alto studios, thanks for watching. (lively music)

(dramatic music) >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are in our Palo Alto studios having a CUBEConversation. We have a itty-bitty little break in the middle of this crazy conference season. Next week, we're back on the road. And one of the places we're going is UiPath Forward Americas. It's our first time to the UiPath user conference. They're all about the RPA, robotic process automation, which is a super hot space and we're really excited to have with us today Carl Eschenbach. He's a partner at Sequoia Capital, who just came in on UiPath's latest round of funding. Which was pretty significant. You can read all about it in the papers as they say. So we're excited to have Carl here. Carl, great to see you again. >> Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Jeff. >> Absolutely, so we of course known you for years and years and years, you had a long, illustrious career at VMware. You've been in the VC world at Sequoia for a couple of years. How are you liking the transition to VC? >> I really enjoyed it. I had a great many year run, almost 15 years at VMware. I was thankful for it, but the transition to Sequoia, I don't think it could have gone any better. I've really enjoyed it and to be working at Sequoia, which is a tremendous platform behind you, with 45 years of rich history, is just a privilege. And leveraging my operating experience of 29 years, now putting it to work through the Sequoia brand, has been pretty exciting for me. I'm very thankful. >> It's been a pretty good run for former VMware guys, in VC. You know, Jerry Chen is on all the time, from Greylock. There's a number of you guys out there. >> Yeah, there's a number. I think Jerry, I think Steve Herrod's now. You know, Martin Casado who was the founder of Nicira, that we bought at VMware was at VC, so there's a bunch of people who have proliferated the VC market, but none of them got the opportunity to be at Sequoia like I did. So I feel very privileged. >> And it really points to the opportunity, the continue innovation opportunity in the enterprise space. 'Cause you're not investing in dating apps, or autonomous vehicles, maybe autonomous vehicles, I don't know, but it's really more the enterprise opportunity continues to be rich with new, kind of transformative opportunities. >> Yeah I think that's right. I spend the majority of my time, as you could imagine, in the enterprise, that's where I grew up, and my operating experience is all in the enterprise deep infrastructure, so I leverage that experience here at Sequoia, focusing on the enterprise. Both infrastructure, hardware, software, public, private cloud, SaaS. So anything associated with offerings in the enterprise, is where I focus and I'll tell you, over the last few years it's been a really rich environment for an investor to think about what's happening in the enterprise as people still are looking for technologies to transform their business at such a rapid rate. Both on premise and obviously with the cloud environment, it's not if, it's when and how fast people ultimately move into the cloud. >> Right, it fascinates me how we continue to uncover these huge buckets of inefficiency. I mean, you think, I used to tease my friends at a center, tease them that you guys wrang all the fat out of the supply chain, now everything's on back order all the time. >> Yeah. >> But we still find huge chunks of inefficiency, and huge opportunities to get more value out, which is I think, one of the fundamental differences in this kind of stock round up and this productivity. It's real, it's not just smoke and mirrors, there are huge still opportunities. >> Yeah, no I agree, I mean, listen, there are huge opportunities to drive gains and productivity. One of the things we're going to talk about is RPA, for example. How do you automate your enterprise to move towards a digitized world? And by doing that you become more automated, which just drives your productivity, your people that much higher, so I think with the ever increasing use of AI and machine learning, getting deeper, deeper integrated into enterprise solutions. It makes things that much more automated, which impacts the productivity of your people, which hopefully has great returns on both your top line growth and bottom line savings. >> Right, so let's dig into that, 'cause business process automation has been around for a long time. I was teasing about a center, you know you bring 'em in and they spend a lot of time, and they map a bunch of stuff out and they change a lot of things. RPA, robotic process automation, which is a relatively new term, I didn't hear about it 'til relatively recently, is a very different approach to automation, than just hiring in all the consultants. It's about actually letting machines learn, listen, and start to build those new processes. >> Yeah, if you think about the BPO world, BPO was still and is still a very manual human intensive activity. To your point, you're bringing on all these people. You do an outsource and then but there's still someone there, you know, doing data entry, and doing very mundane, kind of easy work. But it's all human driven. And people used to try to solve this by going to offshore locations, with lower cost opportunities, where you can get a workforce that's much cheaper, than here in the states. But again it was all human driven. Now with the advent of something like RPA, that can be substituted with software, and software bots or robots. And by doing that it just drives up the efficiency at which you're doing everything in your older system. So, that's why we've seen such a rapid acceleration that you can't ignore around RPA. Just over the last couple of years this has accelerated extremely quickly, the technology's become a lot more mature, people are starting to implement it, it's one of the first instantiations of AI in the enterprise. And if you think about it, Jeff, implementing a software bot that may replace, three, four, five humans. And oh, by the way, the bot can work 24 hours a day. Oh, by the way, the accuracy rate of the bot is probably significantly higher than a human, so the ROI and the value proposition around RPA is very straightforward. You can't ignore the value it brings. And everyone as you know is always looking to save cost, but it does more than just save cost. It actually starts to impact your top line revenue growth. Because you can take those humans, who used to do those mundane tasks, and you can repurpose them to work on, if you will, revenue generating, profitable activities, while the software bots take care of all the automation of your older legacy systems. >> Right, and it's even, not even, its little things. I'm never amazed, right? I do a ton of interviews, we talk about automation all of the time. I still do a whole lot of manual stuff, that I would much rather have my robotic assistant help me do, simple things like you know, make sure that we get the picture out from this interview, you know, after the fact. All these little mundane tasks that the sum total of which are a lot of activity, and then as you said, I think the other really important piece is the accuracy, right? When you, unfortunately, with computers, unfortunately, they only like to do it the way they get set up to do it. They're not really good at errors so much, so once you set it up. But you know, this RPA is different in that the people aren't doing it, they're actually letting the robots do it so VMware early days of virtualization, now we're getting to the point where the compute, the store, and the network are to a point where you get the horsepower to support this type of function. >> Yes. >> I didn't have it in the past. >> Yep, yeah and with RPA, I think, one of the things that's pretty neat, is people are starting to implement RPA, and they're always finding new use cases for it. And once they get some experience in programming these software bots, right, they start to realize well maybe we can implement this in this other area. So it may start in a finance organization, and it may move into, you know, automating cost centers, or automating what you're doing in sales, or sales operations, so there's many opportunities, once it's implemented once to find other use cases. And actually, you're starting to see people become software bot developers. Like they have to set up these bots to implement 'em in their environment. So people have to learn how to program these bots, and then implement 'em. So there's an ecosystem that's starting to be established around the RPA industry. You mentioned some of the Accentures of the world, they're the old BPOs. There's some of the biggest customers of people like UiPath because what they do is they say, wow, today we're solving this with humans, but if I could solve this now with software, in RPA and technology, like UiPath is providing, I can drive up my margins because I'm doing it through the use of software. And I can repurpose those people to do other tasks. >> Right, so great point. You brought UiPath, and that's what we started with. What did you see as an investor, as an executive in UiPath both the technology and the team and their execution, that led you guys to go in on this big round? >> Yeah so we did a pretty deep dive across the entire RPA landscape. Listen, you couldn't ignore the momentum, right? We say don't fight gravity. We saw the momentum of the RPA market accelerating, and the way I like to describe it, it went from a push market where people have to push their technology into the enterprise, to now it's a pull market where the enterprise is pulling the technology in. Now they're looking for the best solution. So we recognized the growth in the RPA market, to your point, just in the last two or three years, it's really accelerated. And then as we looked at the landscape, we had the opportunity to spend time with Daniel, the co-founder and CEO, and I think there was a few things that stood to us around UiPath. Number one, Daniel is a very unique founder. He's been at this for years and his level of perseverance and commitment to make this a very successful company is unwavering. The fact that they're global in nature already, this is a company who started in Bucharest, expanded internationally and expanded to the US simultaneously so they're covering the three major geographies around the world already today even at an early stage of the company. Which is very, very important for someone when you're an investor to say, wow, what's your global footprint? So we had to help them get into these markets. Today they're established around the world. >> They're already there. >> They're in Japan. They're across Europe, because of where they originated. They have a new headquarters in New York, and they're hiring rapidly. The second is we think their technology that exists today in the roadmap, where they're going in the future, was very powerful. And they're going to continue to implement more and more, if you will, AI into their platform. The other thing that we were impressed with was the fact that they are customer focused. They're very customer centric. And they built a global footprint to support their global customers, and they've had to do that because of the rapid acceleration of the product. They think they're getting like six new enterprise customers a day. >> Wow >> On the UiPath platform. And if you're going to do that in a global footprint, you have to have support around the world. And they're maniacal about how they support their customers. So all of this led to us looking at the market, recognizing the RPA growth and saying, UiPath is the company we want to bet on and we couldn't be more excited to be part of the company, and to help them on their journey as they continue to grow. >> Yeah, well we're excited to go to our first UiPath Americas Forward, Forward America, I got it right. Yeah, we'll be there next week, it's in the Fontainebleau hotel in Miami. And we're looking forward, 'cause like you said, it seemed to come out of nowhere. But as typically is the case, right? Always an overnight success, 10 years in the making, we're just late to see. >> Yeah, they have conferences they've been doing around the world, Jeff, UiPath. And every conference they do, including Japan, it's like a standing room only, because there is so much interest in this technology, and again I think anything associated with automating your infrastructure, moving to a new digitalized world, and everyone has a digital strategy first kind of mentality in the enterprise, these people fit right in, smack in the middle of that. >> Yeah, well, clearly the valuation speaks to that, as market validation. >> Yeah. >> So no doubt about it, Well Carl, thanks for taking a few minutes out of your busy day. Glad to hear the VC life is treating you well. >> Well, thanks for having me. It's good to see you guys again back here on theCUBE. It's always fun spending time with you, and thanks for your interest in UiPath and RPA. I think it's a really exciting market, and I'm quite confident we'll continue to accelerate at unprecedented rates. >> Alright, well great. Well, thanks a lot Carl. He's Carl, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're having a CUBEConversation at our Palo Alto studio. Taking a break from the conference season, but we'll be heading back on the road soon. Thanks for watching. >> Thank you. (dramatic music)

(dramatic music) >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are in our Palo Alto studios having a CUBEConversation. We have a itty bitty little break in the middle of this crazy conference season. Next week, we're back on the road. And one of the places we're going is UiPath Forward Americas. It's our first time to the UiPath user conference. They're all about the RPA, robotic process automation, which is a super hot space and we're really excited to have with us today Carl Eschenbach. He's a partner at Sequoia Capital, who just came in on UiPath's latest round of funding. Which was pretty significant. You can read all about it in the papers as they say. So we're excited to have Carl here. Carl, great to see you again. >> Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Jeff. >> Absolutely, so we of course known you for years and years and years, you had a long, illustrious career at VMware. You've been in the VC world at Sequoia for a couple of years. How are you liking the transition to VC? >> I really enjoyed it. I had a great many year run, almost 15 years at VMware. I was thankful for it, but the transition to Sequoia, I don't think it could have gone any better. I've really enjoyed it and to be working at Sequoia, which is a tremendous platform behind you, with 45 years of rich history, is just a privilege. And leveraging my operating experience of 29 years, now putting it to work through the Sequoia brand, has been pretty exciting for me. I'm very thankful. >> It's been a pretty good run for former VMware guys, in VC. You know, Jerry Chen is on all the time, from Greylock. There's a number of you guys out there. >> Yeah, there's a number. I think Jerry, I think Steve Herrod's now. You know, Martin Casado who was the founder of Nicira, that we bought at VMware was at VC, so there's a bunch of people who have proliferated the VC market, but none of them got the opportunity to be at Sequoia like I did. So I feel very privileged. >> And it really points to the opportunity, the continue innovation opportunity in the enterprise space. 'Cause you're not investing in dating apps, or autonomous vehicles, maybe autonomous vehicles, I don't know, but it's really more the enterprise opportunity continues to be rich with new, kind of transformative opportunities. >> Yeah I think that's right. I spend the majority of my time, as you could imagine, in the enterprise, that's where I grew up, and my operating experience is all in the enterprise deep infrastructure, so I leverage that experience here at Sequoia, focusing on the enterprise. Both infrastructure, hardware, software, public, private cloud, SaaS. So anything associated with offerings in the enterprise, is where I focus and I'll tell you, over the last few years it's been a really rich environment for an investor to think about what's happening in the enterprise as people still are looking for technologies to transform their business at such a rapid rate. Both on premise and obviously with the cloud environment, it's not if, it's when and how fast people ultimately move into the cloud. >> Right, it fascinates me how we continue to uncover these huge buckets of inefficiency. I mean, you think, I used to tease my friends at a center, tease them that you guys wrang all the fat out of the supply chain, now everything's on back order all the time. >> Yeah. >> But we still find huge chunks of inefficiency, and huge opportunities to get more value out, which is I think, one of the fundamental differences in this kind of stock round up and this productivity. It's real, it's not just smoke and mirrors, there are huge still opportunities. >> Yeah, no I agree, I mean, listen, there are huge opportunities to drive gains and productivity. One of the things we're going to talk about is RPA, for example. How do you automate your enterprise to move towards a digitized world? And by doing that you become more automated, which just drives your productivity, your people that much higher, so I think with the ever increasing use of AI and machine learning, getting deeper, deeper integrated into enterprise solutions. It makes things that much more automated, which impacts the productivity of your people, which hopefully has great returns on both your top line growth and bottom line savings. >> Right, so let's dig into that, 'cause business process automation has been around for a long time. I was teasing about a center, you know you bring 'em in and they spend a lot of time, and they map a bunch of stuff out and they change a lot of things. RPA, robotic process automation, which is a relatively new term, I didn't hear about it 'til relatively recently, is a very different approach to automation, than just hiring in all the consultants. It's about actually letting machines learn, listen, and start to build those new processes. >> Yeah, if you think about the BPO world, BPO was still and is still a very manual human intensive activity. To your point, you're bringing on all these people. You do an outsource and then but there's still someone there, you know, doing data entry, and doing very mundane, kind of easy work. But it's all human driven. And people used to try to solve this by going to offshore locations, with lower cost opportunities, where you can get a workforce that's much cheaper, than here in the states. But again it was all human driven. Now with the advent of something like RPA, that can be substituted with software, and software bots or robots. And by doing that it just drives up the efficiency at which you're doing everything in your older system. So, that's why we've seen such a rapid acceleration that you can't ignore around RPA. Just over the last couple of years this has accelerated extremely quickly, the technology's become a lot more mature, people are starting to implement it, it's one of the first instantiations of AI in the enterprise. And if you think about it, Jeff, implementing a software bot that may replace, three, four, five humans. And oh, by the way, the bot can work 24 hours a day. Oh, by the way, the accuracy rate of the bot is probably significantly higher than a human, so the ROI and the value proposition around RPA is very straightforward. You can't ignore the value it brings. And everyone as you know is always looking to save cost, but it does more than just save cost. It actually starts to impact your top line revenue growth. Because you can take those humans, who used to do those mundane tasks, and you can repurpose them to work on, if you will, revenue generating, profitable activities, while the software bots take care of all the automation of your older legacy systems. >> Right, and it's even, not even, its little things. I'm never amazed, right? I do a ton of interviews, we talk about automation all of the time. I still do a whole lot of manual stuff, that I would much rather have my robotic assistant help me do, simple things like you know, make sure that we get the picture out from this interview, you know, after the fact. All these little mundane tasks that the sum total of which are a lot of activity, and then as you said, I think the other really important piece is the accuracy, right? When you, unfortunately, with computers, unfortunately, they only like to do it the way they get set up to do it. They're not really good at errors so much, so once you set it up. But you know, this RPA is different in that the people aren't doing it, they're actually letting the robots do it so VMware early days of virtualization, now we're getting to the point where the compute, the store, and the network are to a point where you get the horsepower to support this type of function. >> Yes. >> I didn't have it in the past. >> Yep, yeah and with RPA, I think, one of the things that's pretty neat, is people are starting to implement RPA, and they're always finding new use cases for it. And once they get some experience in programming these software bots, right, they start to realize well maybe we can implement this in this other area. So it may start in a finance organization, and it may move into, you know, automating cost centers, or automating what you're doing in sales, or sales operations, so there's many opportunities, once it's implemented once to find other use cases. And actually, you're starting to see people become software bot developers. Like they have to set up these bots to implement 'em in their environment. So people have to learn how to program these bots, and then implement 'em. So there's an ecosystem that's starting to be established around the RPA industry. You mentioned some of the Accentures of the world, they're the old BPOs. There's some of the biggest customers of people like UiPath because what they do is they say, wow, today we're solving this with humans, but if I could solve this now with software, in RPA and technology, like UiPath is providing, I can drive up my margins because I'm doing it through the use of software. And I can repurpose those people to do other tasks. >> Right, so great point. You brought UiPath, and that's what we started with. What did you see as an investor, as an executive in UiPath both the technology and the team and their execution, that led you guys to go in on this big round? >> Yeah so we did a pretty deep dive across the entire RPA landscape. Listen, you couldn't ignore the momentum, right? We say don't fight gravity. We saw the momentum of the RPA market accelerating, and the way I like to describe it, it went from a push market where people have to push their technology into the enterprise, to now it's a pull market where the enterprise is pulling the technology in. Now they're looking for the best solution. So we recognized the growth in the RPA market, to your point, just in the last two or three years, it's really accelerated. And then as we looked at the landscape, we had the opportunity to spend time with Daniel, the co-founder and CEO, and I think there was a few things that stood to us around UiPath. Number one, Daniel is a very unique founder. He's been at this for years and his level of perseverance and commitment to make this a very successful company is unwavering. The fact that they're global in nature already, this is a company who started in Bucharest, expanded internationally and expanded to the US simultaneously so they're covering the three major geographies around the world already today even at an early stage of the company. Which is very, very important for someone when you're an investor to say, wow, what's your global footprint? So we had to help them get into these markets. Today they're established around the world. >> They're already there. >> They're in Japan. They're across Europe, because of where they originated. They have a new headquarters in New York, and they're hiring rapidly. The second is we think their technology that exists today in the roadmap, where they're going in the future, was very powerful. And they're going to continue to implement more and more, if you will, AI into their platform. The other thing that we were impressed with was the fact that they are customer focused. They're very customer centric. And they built a global footprint to support their global customers, and they've had to do that because of the rapid acceleration of the product. They think they're getting like six new enterprise customers a day. >> Wow >> On the UiPath platform. And if you're going to do that in a global footprint, you have to have support around the world. And they're maniacal about how they support their customers. So all of this led to us looking at the market, recognizing the RPA growth and saying, UiPath is the company we want to bet on and we couldn't be more excited to be part of the company, and to help them on their journey as they continue to grow. >> Yeah, well we're excited to go to our first UiPath Americas Forward, Forward America, I got it right. Yeah, we'll be there next week, it's in the Fontainebleau hotel in Miami. And we're looking forward, 'cause like you said, it seemed to come out of nowhere. But as typically is the case, right? Always an overnight success, 10 years in the making, we're just late to see. >> Yeah, they have conferences they've been doing around the world, Jeff, UiPath. And every conference they do, including Japan, it's like a standing room only, because there is so much interest in this technology, and again I think anything associated with automating your infrastructure, moving to a new digitalized world, and everyone has a digital strategy first kind of mentality in the enterprise, these people fit right in, smack in the middle of that. >> Yeah, well, clearly the valuation speaks to that, as market validation. >> Yeah. >> So no doubt about it, Well Carl, thanks for taking a few minutes out of your busy day. Glad to hear the VC life is treating you well. >> Well, thanks for having me. It's good to see you guys again back here on theCUBE. It's always fun spending time with you, and thanks for your interest in UiPath and RPA. I think it's a really exciting market, and I'm quite confident we'll continue to accelerate at unprecedented rates. >> Alright, well great. Well, thanks a lot Carl. He's Carl, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're having a CUBEConversation at our Palo Alto studio. Taking a break from the conference season, but we'll be heading back on the road soon. Thanks for watching. >> Thank you. (dramatic music)

no from the noise it's the cube covering vmworld 2015 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem sponsors now your hosts John furrier and Dave vellante okay welcome back everyone we are live in San Francisco moscone north lobby at vmworld 2015 this is the cube silicon angles flagship program we go out to the events and extract the scene from the noise i'm john furrier the founder still gonna enjoy my coach dave vellante co-founder Wikibon calm research our next call our next guest is called shabaab the president and c-e-o chief opera offer vmware welcome back to the queue great to see you John Dave thanks for having me it's always good to spend time with you every vmworld we sit here it's great to have you but this year a little change of plans you did the opening keynote so were you nervous I mean usually it's girl singer it's the big stage and yeah you're the top note your peeps come on yeah i mean i don't i don't necessarily get that nervous anymore i mean if you don't have a little bit about it flies in your belly then you're not excited about doing it so it's more the nervousness about get going getting out there i mean when you first walk out and you see 20,000 sets of people looking at yeah you're like okay game on let's get going I'd like to set up this year like how you set the table up for Pat today's big great presentation but you laid out i'll c vm foundation you got vm women's thing going on today at four o'clock at them at the marriott you have a lot of product announcements kind of the blocking and tackling of the success so share with us some of the highlights because everyone's like who are whores the old school at what's not what nothing really new here and then the new folks to be in world like refresh wow a lot of new stuff here so yeah so i think it's a new stuff you know being a you know an old veteran here at vmware of more than 13 years i think it's just so exciting is how the company continues to you know innovate time and time again and we use vmworld as to showcase to be able to do that you know things that stand out for me right now is how you if you look back over time there's been a whole bunch of different technologies and companies that we're going to put vmware out of business and you come to vmworld and at first it starts with coneqtec then it's hyper-v then it's zen then it's kvn then it was OpenStack now it's containers and just watching vm we're how we think about the future make sure we embrace these new technologies that move the market forward is something we're quite proud of them we don't always view all of these things as big competitive threats we look at them as market extension opportunities for us and they all run on the same platform that we've brought to market for the mass many years so I you know and then we have some great events we have we have a vm women's conference we do every year at you know showing our diversity and we're really focused on that a lot internally at the company and then there's many events i just left we have a cio conference this year that's being hosted by our by our cio bass kire that's going really well with 40 different CIOs and we just you know keep thinking of different ways to be innovative at this conference time and time again not only technologically about how we engage with our people yeah I gotta say this year I that stands out for me as well and all some illustrations for me is one Pat's keynote today really thinks a long view of perspective because that's the tam is bigger it's not about short-term results and all this Elliott capital converses are on the Federation which is noise to the bigger picture which he basically just kills that conversation when out here's look at the future this yeah we're going after and then you got tactical stuff like DevOps which is kind of down in the trenches yeah so that's interesting that's so to me that's the highlight of for me this week so I got to ask you with that going on you're out leading the teams that actually talk to customers yes so how do you now take the vision that Pat laid out and you get the Federation construct how do you do in those deals how's everything working with VMware get some give us some data on what's going on with the with the sales the customers the deployments of solutions yeah so again yeah you know we did lay out a great vision at vmworld again this year and if you look at how we're addressing the market we're really now talking to multiple audiences where if you go back five years ago we talked to a single audience and as we engage with our customers we're talking to you know if you will the core VMware virtualization folks but now we're talking to networking teams we're talking to security we're talking to the line of business who is driving IT and we're also engaging as you said John with the developer community and one of the things that we've been focused on is not only going after those audiences but may making sure the core IT is become relevant to these next generation type of people that want to leverage our infrastructure and you know with our vision we now can turn over our vision to our core customers and say you now can internally market yourself as someone who's capable of running your legacy environment and looking at the future as well and I think that's really playing out here in the show this year and then the other area is just with nsx nsx and we showed the picture of a bullet train with it with you know this thing taking off and going extremely fast yesterday at the financial analyst meeting we had and i can tell you and just watching i just walked through the show floor over there and you go to the vmware booth in the one section that is jam-packed every time you go there is around nsx so John I'd say these customer engagements and conversations have expanded from pure virtualization to the cloud people to security and a lot of that as around NSX and then in one lasting dave is it's just our end user computing strategy I think at the conference last year we said what a difference a year makes an end-user computing in 2014 in 2015 I'll say it again what a difference a year makes we've come so far the acquisition of AirWatch has put us on the forefront of everything going on and both not virtualizing existing desktops but the world of mobility so our strategies coming together and i will tell you you talk to customers at the show they're seeing it real time well what a difference five years makes especially in that business if it's a win a 180 in that hole and use a computer space so you're talking about these different opportunities and it ties into the TAM expansion that you guys lay it out a couple years ago actually your strategic plan the reason i like talking yukos because you you're the executive who's most responsible for running the business i listen to the conference calls when I can or i read the transcripts and you know paddle give the high-level jonatha will give you the tax rates and then it comes out of carl won't you take that because you know that the business you're the executive who really isn't responsible for that and the big theme of these last you know several calls has been you know years now a couple years diversifying beyond the beyond the core of vSphere and you you're beginning to do that in a big way v san NSX vCloud air management so I wonder if you could talk about that Tam expansion and the business and how you feel about that in the momentum yeah I think one of the statistics we share on the hearings call every quarter is how our business has evolved over the years in the statistic we always use is what percentage of our business comes outside a stand alone if you will naked vSphere sales and now we're up over sixty percent of our business you know up from I think just three years ago or was only thirty percent of our business so we continue to evolve and make sure we're selling all these products the exciting part is we have all these solutions Dave at the same time when when you're thinking about from a go-to-market perspective we have to really figure out where to prioritize and how we enable our sales force to be capable of now catching all these great solutions and products we have to take to market so we've spent a lot of time on evolving and transforming our sales force to be capable of selling multiple solutions into the market but it goes way beyond Dave quite frankly our sales force it also goes to our channel as you know it just walked out solutions exchange over there you see you know 400 plus you know customers partners and ecosystem folks there they're all working with us and we have to make sure that they can move with us as quickly as we want to move as we bring these things to Marcus so it's um it's not easy I think we're doing quite well in the evolution of our go-to-market in how we're selling but it's something we're going to have to keep working on especially as you go into cloud and you have different licensing models whether it's a perpetual a subscription model or term model there's a whole bunch of things we have to do different and I think we're doing it well and the customers want that that choice but I'm glad you brought up that point because it's a great opportunity for you especially as your enterprise agreements come up for renewal now you can sell other services like bananas and bunches but it's complicated and and what I'm hearing from you is it's really the ecosystem power that allows you to do that yeah and and as well some hard work and training and the like yeah absolutely Dave in yo we do have you know use the enterprise license agreement as a vehicle and how we engage with our customers and as they come up for renewal the great news is we have a framework in place and now we have the opportunity as we continue to innovate bring more more are these products into the renewal and hopefully make them bigger as the years go on so Carl Pat said in this keynote sound but I picked up on referencing clouds can we all can't we all get along kind of like playing with that kind of phrase everyone kind of throws around so I want you to comment on that and then I want to share tweet with you then I'm going to ask you a sales motion question with how you guys are handling your sales motions with your customers in terms of the value proposition someone tweeted it's no longer the big beating the small it's the fast beating the slow get agile with VMware one cloud so one cloud any device are any on cloud and any device yeah is the key message so let's start with the cloud question first can't we all get along I think in some sense we can and we are getting along in another sense we're competing I mean this is a cooperative world we live in or I call it frenemies we're friends and enemies simultaneously it's just the world we live in an IT today and if you look at it through the lens of VMware the one thing we've said time and time again is we're going to give our customers freedom flexibility and choice I articulated this during my keynote yesterday morning and and really it's this whole notion of letting our customers choose who they partner with how they partner with them and then look to VMware and say will you still engage and we're doing that an example in the cloud space VMware obviously can run on premise with our private cloud and we can run our customers workloads in our vCloud air cloud itself or one of our partners but at the same time we'll look at our customers and say you know what if you want a provision any of your workloads and run them in an amazon cloud in a microsoft azure cloud or any other cloud out there will be the provisioning letter through what we call cmp cloud management platform and that's what helped us emerge to be the number one cloud management platform player in the industry so it's not necessarily we have to directly engage with with some of our competitors in a cloud space but we also look at our customers say hey they have great clouds we're not going to have one big homo genius cloud there's going to be many college there's going to be a heterogeneous set of infrastructure people want to use and we're going to allow them to do that but we're going to be the orchestrator of just a drill down on that the word engineering came up in Pat's cube conversation earlier today talking about cloud how cloud be many things to many people hybrid cloud is just a kind of like this should be the computing it's the outcome of engineering efforts and every customer is a different use case get workloads exactly so given that piece there that is where the resource piece comes up the unlimited resource so is that the key driver for your philosophy of in many clouds that hey let the customers engineer what they want per se is that kind of what you're getting at what we're saying is we know the customers who want to leverage many clouds out there I mean whether and it's not just infrastructure-as-a-service clouds its past clouds platform as a service and it says whether it's sales force or box or you know any of the others and we're saying we know they're going to want to use them at the same time we look at our customers and say listen we've been on a journey you know and we say we've been on a journey for the last 10 years together and there's probably no one who's provided more value right or more economic return in the data center than VMware in the last 10 years it's a rhetorical question and I'll ask customers that and they'll say yeah you're probably right and then I say it's not if it's when you're going to use a public cloud and they'll say yes and then I'll say well why don't we go on another decade long journey and make sure that exactly how you run your environment today we give you a safe passage way to go to the cloud not if but when you want to go there with the same operating model with the same tooling in the same infrastructure and when you have that conversation with VMware customers are like let's engage and let's go on another journey because I know why you can take me there and that's where our engineering comes in things like long distance vmotion backing up virtual machines in a public cloud so the engineering of what we're doing is deeply integrated into our solutions but it doesn't eliminate our customers from using other classes wiki there if I may is that you're enabling your idea giving credibility to the IT organizations that are subtitle those are your peeps right so it's the shadow IT that those guys are trying to avoid and obviously that's the edict of the organization that I t is responsible for so that to me is the key yeah I'm it's a great way to put I mean the thing that's happening now is is that what Pat brought up I want to get your conscious because this comes back your sales touch points out so you have your constituent in IT jobs so Pat said on the cube here he said they did a survey and the DevOps DevOps conference whether you're a developer or in ninety and majority the people were in IT mm-hmm so after you own that's your wheelhouse you have a great install base 10-year journey that's cool you own that so John you call it ops dev but this is nice i see i do the guys who kicked ass with virtualization so we know that exists out there but what's happening now that we're seeing here and i want to see if you guys are seeing it in the field is there's a whole nother pressure point from the app developers yeah that are rolling out massive projects are you guys touching that part of the organization the sales motion are you hearing that from customers thank you know I think the question really is how are we engaging or what are we doing to engage with probably a different set of customers and that's the developers and I would say if you talk to Robin and you talk to the marketing teams we're just reaching out to those developers we haven't historically as you both said really been talking to developers we supplied IT with an infrastructure that then they support the developer community but what you're seeing now is the developers don't believe I can give them what they want and they're going around them to other denture any cloud boat which is exactly why now VMware has a two-prong strategy we're going to go and what we're going to do is we're going to enable IT to remain the platform of choice for the developers but we're also going to go and touch the developers and give them the confidence that they can run on the existing unlimited shadow I teach that is the goal it will always exist I'm sure but for some things but you know it's been our shadow IT is always doing the cubes like it's been are indeed it's like at some point you got to operationalize it absolutely and you know if you think about it when we speak to customers what we want them to be as a service broker we want them to broker infrastructure services past services SAS service and developer services on the most efficient effective way they can run it whether its internal or external clouds and in and we don't want to create a bottleneck because you never want to slow down the speed of innovation from the developer community but if you can somehow funnel and through IT and they can get the confidence I t can get them the resources they want then it's a win-win shadow i t's born out of necessity if you can eliminate the necessity exactly wit everybody wins a crate so final question for me is what are the top conversations that you're having with customers when you know in terms of like look at just from metadata from you on like but what are some of the conversations that are there in the real down-and-dirty conversations with the customers what are they talking about what's their top concerns what's the point every probably three the first is you know the challenge they have with running their legacy data center where seventy percent of IT dollars are spent but also trying to address the needs of the business and devout developer community you know if you will supporting both sides that the divide is actually really hard and they're all struggling with it you talk to any customer of any size they're struggling with it how do you take your brownfield environment and make it capable of handling net new infrastructure of platforming solutions and applications and some of them just build brand new green field data centers and that's how they go forward so that's the first thing that we hear loud and clear from our customers the second is I don't think you know any of them believe the technology is not going to evolve and when we bring this whole notion it's a very big vision of software-defined data center to our customers they all get it and I'm confident we can deliver all the way from Network compute to storage and highly automated that is not their biggest challenge the single biggest challenge we see with our customers to getting massive scale adoption of the software-defined data center it's not technology its people their organizations are aligned on the network team on the compute team on the storage team on the dev ops team and all sudden this crappy company VMware comes in and says we're converging to technologies and now you have a mismatch between your technology organisation so sake for your transformation that people Jennifer mation is actually really hard for them to consume right so it's you know that I'd say that is the single biggest challenge that we see with our customers I'll tell you in our experience the successful organizations are the ones that damn the torpedoes bring in the technology and then figure it out as opposed to trying to figure out the organization because it'll never happen yes Oh work experience is there it's a forcing function exactly and then the third area conversation we're having with our customers you know he's around network virtualization this is you know not it's when and how fast i think we've eliminated the barrier of virtualizing the infrastructure just like we did years ago with you know ESX it took a long time for us to break through that barrier but because we broke through that barrier i think the there's a much more openness to something like that or virtualization because we've already proved it can be done in one component of the data center compute why can't we do it on networking so that's a that's a big discussion point yeah for the folks watching that last point if you look at Pat Gelson's interview he talks about where that hardon line is he sees the evolution so yeah Carl thanks for the insight I know you're super busy you got a lot of things to do your roaming the halls going to all the different events congratulations and thanks for coming on the Cuban sharing your insights thanks for having me appreciate being here every year with you guys great stuff from vmworld 2015 is the cube I'm John furrier with Dave allante live in San Francisco for the Emerald 2015 we'll be right back after this short break

live from San Francisco California it's the queue at vmworld 2014 brought to you by vmware cisco EMC HP and nutanix now here are your hosts John courier and Dave vellante okay welcome back in when we are live in san francisco california at vmworld 2014 is the cube I'm John furry with Dave a lot day our next guest is ecology about the president and chief operating officer VMware welcome back to the queue great to see you thanks for having me again Dave appreciate it looking good the question I want to get get to you right away as vmworld gets bigger and bigger and bigger every year and your job gets bigger and bigger and bigger every year so give us the update on what's going on at the top of VMware obviously operationalizing cloud and with air watch end-user computing I'll see several engine data center you're still on your mission what's the big change or impact to your business yeah so at the top of VMware we've recently announced some realignment of our executive staff and it started with myself patent Jonathan or CFO sitting down and having a conversation and how can we scale our company to be 10 billion dollars from six billion where we're at today so we looked at all of different operational aspects we looked at our go-to-market aspects we looked at the strategy and how we run our M&A business and we decided to break things up and I've now got responsibilities continue to have responsibility for the go-to-market aspects our partner ecosystem and i also have responsibility obviously for marketing's of these events in robin matlock our chief marketing officer and i also recently picked up the responsibility to support our strategy efforts as well as our ma efforts so all of that at the same time and I've given up a few of the operational you know responsibilities I've had and given in the Jonathan's and now Jonathan can really look at the back office and make sure we're built to scale operationally and this is freed pad up than to really focus his efforts and I'm on each of the strategic initiatives we have around the software-defined data center the hybrid cloud and our end user computing components and and it really worked out well the structures work and you know we have a great executive team that really like to work together yeah you got so you got guy running the trains on time in the back office you're watching the chess board has stringing the products together trying to build out the division exactly yeah exactly so I got I got to ask you about just in general the the overall plan with MA for instance obviously AirWatch very successful position pat was kind of glowing about it didn't give specifics certain a lot to do growing market a lot of white space is a lot of new things like docker obviously evo rails and I'll see an end user side before before we get the kind of that vision talk about air watch how is that done can you be specific about some metrics yeah so you know we're very excited about the air watch acquisition obviously it took place earlier this year and you know we've achieved everything we expected to achieve out of that acquisition it's really you know hit its mark based on the business hand when we built as we went into the acquisition and what I'm really excited about now is you know how do we get leverage how do we get economies of scale on leverage ally existing VMware footprint that we have on a global basis to really help bear watch expand deeper into our large accounts and faster internationally so as you could imagine VMware having a large international footprint AirWatch did not we're leveraging our international footprint to get air watch deep into parts of Europe and Asia and Pacific where they haven't been in the past and then the last area leverage we're really excited about is you know it was just last month when we put the air watch product on our price list that now gives not only VMware core sales folks the ability to sell it into the market but also our channel so now our channel has the ability to sell if you will you know all of the air watch products into the market and not just do it themselves in their channels so there's a lot of leverage we're going to get so go to market seems exciting a lot of action going on talk about the name change is obviously there's been some that we've got a decoder ring blog posts were putting together around okay you got you got the air name vCloud air a lot of stuff changing on kind of the nomenclature of some of the what's the rationale behind that was there a method to the madness was it just kind of like just trying to align everything not just water vapor anymore yeah exactly no yeah so we actually have a you know under Robin that like our CMO we have a team that focus on naming and branding and when we looked at all the components we have we actually were getting a little bit disconnect is connected and how we take to market our products their brands in their names so we've decided to streamline everything everything always mark starts with a small D so now we have vCloud air right for you know our hybrid cloud we have V realize which is now our suite of management automation and provisioning tools and operation tools so we just thought it was the right time to do it we had this great event called vmworld to take our new brand and naming conventions into the market and you know everyone seems to be responding quite well to it everyone recognized V something around VMware and we're just trying to streamline that across everything we do so there's some some consistency in our naming because they're not going to call this the VQ I'm actually I'm very open to doing that to hit you are a TM world and if you want to change the name we can make that announcement right now my stag Dave and I will sell right you're running out that I'm just asking I don't run M&A now so you guys pretty much I think nailed the docker positioning obviously this this conference I mean announced a big partnership OpenStack you know there was a lot of buzz about that before these disruptive technologies seem to have a good playbook for saying okay how are we going to address these how are we going to embrace them and how does I was going to help us attack art am so we started to pool the other day though I got to ask you this so who gets to 10 billion first AWS or or VMware so you mentioned how do you get to 10 billion now Behrendt yesterday at the analyst meeting I thought asked a very good question he brought up he basically said this conventional wisdom out here that Amazon is going to rule the world he said I don't I don't agree that said there's at least one other guy that doesn't agree you obviously didn't agree so I want to talk about that it's the one piece that is still hard to understand because you got you know guys like Andy Jassy I'm one end of the world saying okay this is what the world is going to look like and you guys like yourself and pat and joe tucci say no no this is what the world is going to look like and certainly you talk to customers are they are you guys both right you both is one wrong is one right what's your take on it well I obviously can't comment on whether they're right or wrong but I can give you our views and pay nobody really sad right we'll find out in a few years I you know during during the keynote yesterday I thought bill fathers had a great slide to talked about the amount of workloads that are on premise versus the amount of workloads that are off premise in the public cloud and still to this day less than ten percent of the workloads are in the public cloud and even if you look out many years from now there will still be you know less than twenty percent of the workloads in a public cloud so the opportunity still exists in private clouds and on-premise but what we need to do is we need to make sure that we're not locking any customer into a or strategy is it on premise or off premise is a hybrid cloud or as a public cloud or is it only public cloud and hybrid cut it has to be in an strategy that's why we tried to articulate the power of and and that's how we think we're differentiating ourselves in the market so we don't think about it as we're competing against the public cloud providers because we have a differentiated platform we're bringing this hybrid solution to market to what we call hybridity that allows our customers to move workloads you know inside out and outside in and when we pull all that together I think the winner will be the people who can truly deliver a hybrid cloud infrastructure and allow companies to seamlessly and securely federated workloads and move them on premise and off-premise and that's our focus so I like that strategy I mean basically you're saying we're focused on the customers you got about half a million customers now we have half a million customers and fifty million virtual machines under metal the strategies of you if you service those guys you're gonna you're going to do well and I and I buy that at the same time Carl in a way I feel like well you may not be competing with the public cloud AKA amazon your customers in a way are and what i mean by that is there's pressure from the corner office yeah now you have to be their advocate and help drive those costs down you've cited I think yesterday you started but look when it comes to security reliability availability that's where we're going to win that's our spot so my specific question is what do you make for example of the CIA deal a company like Amazon was able to take on a company like IBM and knock them out is that a unique corner case or I wonder if you could give a perspective on that no I think I think as we go forward we're going to see more and more if you all vertical clouds start to emerge you can think of the CIA transaction with AWS as a vertical cloud specifically to serve the CIA you know department and I think you'll see more and more of them emerge in the future and it's a very competitive world that we live in right i mean everyone bid on that except for vmware because we didn't necessarily have our product in the market for the federal government we didn't have our certification to service the federal market but now we will have in the very near future all assertive certifications we need to build a vertical cloud and go and support you know department of defense agencies so i think in the future it's going to be a competitive battleground everyone's going to buy for it but at the same time you know i think you know people can over rotate and say hey they won that and that means they're going to dominate this market this market is still very immature it's growing the majority of the workloads are on premise and I still go back to the fundamentals of the hybrid approach that you talked about to securely and seamlessly move workloads I think you know we're well positioned and but time will tell right and well the average age of an enterprise app I think it's uh almost 20 years one of years those actors gonna disappear overnight yeah no they will not disappear and again just remember that slide from bill father's presentation yesterday I remember it's a lot of DNA from BM worldstar 50 year 2010 when calm originals to CEO he laid out the vision and it's happening maybe Linda different for how you get there pivotal now out separate company yeah I got to ask you the Pat Gelsinger question I get in some comments here and LinkedIn people from my friend John bare ass CMO mint ago who worked at padded Intel people tend to forget Pat led the Intel team that designed for 86 he knows his stuff technically pad certainly as a technical person so Pat's got some time freed up you're doing the MA is Pat yesterday is you guys playing defense or offense of course was packing say offense you know he's an offensive player so did you really think he was gonna say detail I didn't I was actually saying he's an offensive nobody came up in the cube earlier somebody said oh thank you but I said no how had a player that's he doesn't play defense been knowing bad so I'd ask you the same question what is the offense for your plays in strategy go to market for VMware what hills are you going to take down first given your base position you had a lot of clients you're adding value certainly that's cool but as you go out and compete and win what's your offensive strategies so listen the thing we do every year at vmworld as we come out and we go on the offensive right we're a very disruptive you know technology innovative lead company in a very positive way disruption can be viewed negatively but I think we're a very disruptive company in a positive way and what we did this year is we absolutely went on the offensive we looked at the market dynamics we looked at the shift in how people might want to consume technology in the future whether it's open source OpenStack or this whole emergence of the containers that are happening so if you just stop and look at where each of those are at OpenStack is still very immature you're not going to find a lot of people have built big implementations of OpenStack successfully containers right has just emerged in the last if you will six months we're actually recognizing that as a potential market you know movement and we're embracing it so this is an opportunity for VMware to say we're not trying to defend our strategy we're not trying to defend our turf we see containers we see OpenStack as a market expansion opportunity for us and I think one of the things people tend to forget if you go back a decade ago there was many different value propositions around just server virtualization but one of the key ones was it allowed us to break down the silos that existed in data centers for many decades and with virtualization we brought to market a platform that allow people to get easy access to infrastructure in the same form factor so it was a platform play now think about that we broke down the silos a decade ago if we go back in as an industry we start to deploy VMware which most customers have today then all of a sudden now I need to OpenStack environment and let's now think about a container strategy and deploy something like Dockers and you do all on different physical infrastructures you've built a lot more silos and it only makes it that much more complex for our customers and our partners this is why we're now taking to market in a very offensive offensive approach to say support VMware but if you want to run these other things please do so but we believe are the best platform for service delivery that gives consistency and lowers both effects and capex for our customers yeah and you said the consumption is key and this cloud consumption models changing the game on how customers can soon technologies so you're saying hey we want to protect our vmware base but we're going to give them a choice exactly right fictional flexibility a choice is one of our key tenets of our strategy and as our company if you will values so I want to talk about caught I mean it's kind of boring in mundane but when you talk to we have a CIO of San Mateo County coming on one of your customers shortly and there's always a focus on cost when you talk about infrastructure vmware's got a very tough act to follow in it then it's because it it created such a huge cost savings by you know taking all the waste out of much of the waste out of servers so where does that next sort of wave come from there's certainly a lot of innovation going on we're seeing that is it things like hyper convergence what you guys announced this week can you keep that cost curve go is it volume with your you know 4,000 partners I wonder if you could talk about that a little because I'm sure your customers are beating up all the time how do we keep costs going what have you done for me lately Carl yeah absolutely it's a great question so it to your point you know over the last decade we brought our customers a massive amount of capex savings you know you take a hundred widget you consolidate that the tenders an immediate ROI there but you have to remember where you are now not just a computer chua zation company we're a data center automation company and we're taking the core tenants of the cat back savings that we brought many of our customers over the last decade and we're moving from compute and we're doing the same on networking and we're doing the same on storage so if you look at it networking alone right by implementing a technology like NSX as an abstraction in an overlay networking platform you don't need to rip and replace your hardware infrastructures to get network virtualization if you think about our customers who have a whole bunch of servers out there today and a lot of those servers have local did saan them most of them are never being used in VMware environment you're using you know an ass or a SAN storage array around VMware now you implement something like this and you can take advantage of all that unused excess capacity that people already have in the data center that is just three examples of capex savings we're bringing our customers so it's not just that we did it in compute I fundamentally believe we have the opportunity to do the same across the rest of the physical state of the data center now on top of that by implementing you know management automation orchestration and remediation proactive remediation tools across the software-defined data center we know there is massive capex savings and affects a great labor cost acting there you know we can take a server administrator who used to support you know a hundred physical servers now can support 500 virtual machines the optic savings around that is just incredible is the business case greater in your opinion I think with the software-defined data center the business case is even greater going forward because again we're doing it on the server but now network can compute and is the automation tools really start to take shape and form to manage the software-defined data center I think you even drive more value and you know even going back a decade ago everyone thought our play was really catback savings but if you talk to most of our customers why they got massive capex savings even in the early days the amount of affects a savings they got because of how we've implemented our technology and architecture in our data center was even greater than the capex savings so I think when you pull it all together this is a bias statement so i'm going to say i'm biased up front so you can't call me biased but i don't think there's a technology in the last decade or in the next decade that has driven more value both business value as well as Capital savings in the data center than VMware we're out to duty independent I would say the same thing another way Carl I mean it connect the dots there on the effects piece and also you guys do something to find data center hybrid cloud and and use a computer if those things all come home and and and and it happened the way you want you move to your next fail point so I got to bring up the globalization conversation if cloud goes down this path the consumption model will be I want by pay by the drink all surfaces and mobile becomes a huge deal so because globalization outside North America you have different issues data center clouds and I real sovereignty also so what's your take on that you guys have a huge base what's your globalization view in that piece if things start to start to materialize really aggressively you build on your base cloud comes home clouds happen in consumption but is happening what's the global strategy global impact I should say yeah so let me talk about our global strategy and then global impact so first of all vmware is very global if you look at our book of business today you know greater than fifty percent of our business is out in or outside of you know the u.s. and North America right so we're already doing very well internationally and how we go to market and how we're generating revenue across the company what you're talking about as the world becomes more and more global in the context of cloud computing how do we play into that so what we've done is we've taken our vCloud air platform and we said where are the biggest markets in the world for cloud computing it's the u.s. right it's the UK right it's Australia it's Japan it's China and if you look at what we've done is we've built out our own data centers we're addressing probably greater than ninety five percent of the infrastructure as a service market in the world with our vCloud air platform where we're not we allow our partners to do that those 3900 partners that we showcase yesterday on stage cover almost a hundred percent of the cloud opportunity so we're not going to do it ourselves we're not going to be in every country around the world but our 3900 partners are in over a hundred countries and we're servicing the cloud market opportunity directly and indirectly across vCloud air in the vCloud air network getting the hook but i want to get that partner thing is just to kind of get pivot quickly for quick comment on that AUSA to partner networks are huge they care about margin expansion and serving customers what's going on with VMware how's that going for the partners yeah so I guess it depends on which type of partner were talking about but I would say in general you know our partner ecosystem is alive and well and all you need to do is take a few steps down over there and go look at the solutions exchange floor and you'll see every technology company in the world that is either integrated or wishes to integrate with VMware in one capacity or the other and it is our responsibility just like we have over the last decade to bring our ecosystem along with us to enjoy the rich opportunity we see in the mobile cloud era the boots are big the booths are packed v Emeril's rock and i'll give you the final word but the bumper sticker on the show this year as the car drives away at down out of san francisco what's it say about vmware what's going to say in the bumper sticker that's a great question what do you think i should say Pat kelson had a good one brave new IT yeah well that's our motto it's the brave new IT but I actually think what it will say is let's go do it again we've had a hell of a journey with our customers in our ecosystem over the last decade and I say let's go do it again over the next decade and disrupt this market in a very positive way and break innovation and technology to market each in every year Kaiser by president and chief I promise of VMware making moves on the offensive vmworld 2014 we'll be right back with our next guest after this break thanks

Carl Eschenbach - VMworld 2013 - theCUBE - #VMworld

(upbeat music) >> TheCUBE presents UiPath Forward 5. Brought to you by UiPath. >> Hello and welcome back to TheCUBE's coverage of UiPath Forward 5. We're here in Las Vegas at the Venetian Convention Center. This is day two. We're wrapping up Dave Nicholson and Dave Vellante. This is the fourth time theCUBE has been at UiPath Forward. And we've seen the transformation of the company from, essentially, what was a really interesting and easy to adopt point product to now one through acquisitions, IPO, has made a number of enhancements to its platform. David Cardenas is here. Deputy Director of Operations for County of Los Angeles, the Department of Public Health. David, good to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me on guys. Appreciate it. >> So what is your role? What does it have to do with automation? >> So I had been, actually started off in the IT space within the public health. Had served as a CIO previously, but now been moving into broader operations. And I basically manage all of the back office operations for the department, HR, IT, finance, all that. >> So you've had a wild ride in the last couple of years. >> Yeah, I think, like I've been talking earlier, it's just been, the last two years have just been horrendous. It's been a really difficult experience for us. >> Yeah, and I mean, the scars are there, and maybe permanently. But it also had major effects on organizations, on operations that, again, seem to be permanent. How would you describe the situation in your organization? >> So I think it, the urgency that came along with the pandemic response, kind of required us to look at things, you know, differently. We had to be, realize we had to be a lot more nimble than when we were and try to figure out how to enhance our operations. But really look at the core of what we're doing and figure out how it is to be more efficient. So I think we've kind of seen it as an opportunity to really examine ourselves a little bit more deeply and see what things we need to do to kind of, to fix our operations and get things on a better path. >> You know, I think a lot of organizations we talked to say that. But I want to understand how you handle this is, you didn't have time to sit back in the middle of the pandemic. >> Yeah. >> And then as you exit, what I call the isolation economy, people are so burned out, you know? So how do you deal with that organizational trauma? Say, okay now, let's sit back and think about this. Do people, are they eager to do so? Do they have the appetite for it? What's that dynamic like? >> So I think certainly there's a level of exhaustion inside the organization. I can't say that there isn't because it's just been, you know, two years of 24/7/365 kind of work. And that's tough on any organization. But I think what we realize is that there's, you know, we need to move into action quickly 'cause we don't know what's going to come next, right? And we're expecting that this is just a sign of what's to come and that we're just at the start of that stage of, we're just going to see a lot more outbreaks, we're going to see a lot more conditions kind of hitting us. And if we're not prepared for that, we're not going to be able to respond for the, and preserve the health and safety of our citizens, right? So I think we're taking a very active, like, look at these opportunities and see what we've done and say how do we now make the changes that we made in response to the pandemic permanent so that the next time this comes at us, we won't have to be struggling the way that we were to try to figure things out because we'll have such a better foundation in place to be able to move things forward. >> I mean, I've never served in the military, but I imagine that when you're in the military, you're always prepared for some kind of, you know, in your world, code red, right? >> Yeah. >> So it's like this code red culture. And that seems to have carried through, right? People are, you know, constantly aware that, wow. We got caught off guard and we don't want that to happen again. Because that was a big part of the trauma was just the unknown- >> Right. >> and the lack of preparedness. So thinking about technology and its role in helping you to prepare for that type of uncertainty. Can you describe how you're applying technology to prepare for the next unknown? >> So I think, so that first part of what you said, I think the difficulty we've always had in the public health side is that there's the, generally the approach to healthcare is very reactionary, right? Your first interface with the healthcare system is, "I'm going to go see my doctor; I'm going to go to the hospital." The work that we do in public health is to try to do everything we can to keep you out of that, right? So it's broad-based messaging, social media now is going to put us out there. But also, to be able to surveil disease in a different way. And so the holy grail for us in healthcare has always been, at least on the public health side, has been to try to see how can we tap in more actively that when you go see the doctor or when you go to the hospital, how can I get access to that information very, very quickly so that I know, and can see, and surveil my entire county in my jurisdiction and know, oh, there's an outbreak of disease happening in this section of the county. We're 10 million people with, you know, hundreds of square miles inside of LA. There are places where we can see very, you know, specific targets that we know we have to hit. But the data's a little stale and we find out several months after. We need to figure out a way to do that more actively. Technology's going to be our path to be able to capture that information more actively and come up on something a little bit, so we can track things faster and be able to respond more quickly. So that's our focus for all our technology implementations, automation like UiPath has offered us and other things, is around how to gather that information more quickly and put that into action so we can do quick interventions. >> People have notoriously short memories. Please tell me (chuckles) any of the friction that you may have experienced in years past before the pandemic. That those friction points where people are thinking, "Eh, what are the odds?" >> Yeah. "Eh, I've got finite budget, I think I'm going to spend it on this thing over here." Do you, are you able to still ride sort of the wave of mind share at this point when putting programs together for the future? >> So whatever friction was there during the pandemic wiped away. I mean, we had amazing collaboration with the medical provider community, our hospital partners. The healthcare system in LA was working very closely with us to make sure that we were responding. And there is that wave that we are trying to make sure that we use this as an opportunity to kind of ride it so that we can implement all the things that we want. 'Cause we don't know how long that's going to last us. The last time that I saw anything this large was after the anthrax attacks and the bioterrorism attacks that we had after 9/11. >> How interesting. >> Public health was really in lens at that point. And we had a huge infusion of funding, a lot of support from stakeholders, both politically and within the healthcare system. And we were able to make some large steps in movement at that point. This feels the same but in a larger scale because now it touched every part of the infrastructure. And we saw how society really had to react to what was going on in a different way than anyone has ever prepared for. And so now is we think is a time where we know that people are making more investments. And our success is going to be their success in the longterm. >> And you have to know that expectations are now set- >> Extremely high. >> at a completely different level, right? >> Yes, absolutely. >> There is no, "Oh, we don't have enough PPE." >> Correct. >> Right? >> David: Correct. >> The the expectation level is, hey, you should have learned from all of- >> We should have it; we can deliver it, We'll have it at the ready when we need to provide it. Yes, absolutely. >> Okay, so I sort of mentioned, we're, David cubed on theCUBE (all laughing). So three Daves. You spoke today at the conference? >> Actually I'm speaking later actually in the session in an hour or so. >> Oh Okay. My understanding is that you've got this concept of putting humans at the center of the automation. What does that mean? Why is that important? Help us understand that. >> So I think what we found in the crisis is that the high demand for information was something we hadn't seen before, right? We're one of the largest media markets in the United States. And what we really had trouble with is trying to figure out how to serve the residents, to provide them the information that we needed to provide to them. And so what we had traditionally done is press releases, you know, just general marketing campaigns, billboards, trying to send our message out. And when you're talking about a pandemic where on a daily basis, hour-by-hour people wanted to know what was going on in their local communities. Like, we had to change the way that we focused on. So we started thinking about, what is the information that the residents of our county need? And how can we set up an infrastructure to sustain the feeding of that? Because if we can provide more information, people will make their own personal decisions around their personal risk, their personal safety measures they need to take, and do so more actively. More so than, you know, one of us going on camera to say, "This is what you should do." They can look for themselves and look at the data that's in front of them and be able to make those choices for themselves, right? And so we needed to make sure that everything that we were doing wasn't built around feeding it to our political stakeholders, which are important stakeholders. We needed to make sure that they're aware and are messaging out, and our leadership are aware. But it's what could we give the public to be able to make them have access to information that we were collecting on an every single day basis to be able to make the decisions for their lives. And so the automation was key to that. We were at the beginning of the pandemic just had tons and tons of resources that we were throwing at the problem that was, our systems were slow, we didn't have good ability to move data back and forth between our systems, and we needed a stop-gap solution to really fill that need and be able to make the data cycles to meet the data cycles. We had basically every day had to deliver reports and analytics and dashboards by like 10 o'clock in the morning because we knew that the 12 an hour and the five-hour news cycles were going to hit and the press were going to then take those and message out. And the public started to kind of come in at that same time and look at 10 and 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock. >> Yeah. >> We could see it from how many hits were hitting our website, looking for that information. So when we failed and had a cycle where that data cycle didn't work and we couldn't deliver, the public would let us know, the press would let us know, the stakeholders would let us know. We had never experienced anything like that before, right. Where people had like this voracious appetite for the information. So we needed to have a very bulletproof process to make sure that every single 24 hours we were delivering that data, making it available at the ready. >> Software robots enabled that. >> Exactly. >> Okay. And so how were you able to implement that so quickly within such a traumatic environment? >> So I think, I guess necessity is always the mother of invention. It kind of drove us to go real quickly to look at what we had. We had data entry operations set up where we had dozens and dozens of people whose sole job in life on a 24-hour cycle was to receive medical reports that we we're getting, interview data that's coming from our case interviews, hospitalization data that was coming in through all these different channels. And it was all coming in in various forms. And they were entering that into our systems of record. And that's what we were using, extracts from that system of record, what was using to generate the data analyses in our systems and our dashboards. And so we couldn't rely on those after a while because the data was coming in at such high volume. There wasn't enough data entry staff to be able to fit the need, right? And so we needed to replace those humans and take them out of that data entry cycle, pop in the bots. And so what we started to look at is, let's pick off the, where it is that that data entry cycle starts and see what we could do to kind of replace that cycle. And we started off with a very discreet workload that was focused on some of our case interview data that was being turned into PDFs that somebody was using to enter into our systems. And we said, "Well before you do that," since we can't import into the systems 'cause it wasn't working, the import utilities weren't working. We got 'em into simple Excel spreadsheets, mapped those to the fields in our systems and let the bots do that over and over again. And we just started off with that one-use case and just tuned it and went cycle after cycle. The bots just got better and better to the point where we had almost like 95% success rates on each submission of data transactions that we did every day. >> Okay, and you applied that automation, I don't know, how many bots was it roughly? >> We're now at like 30; we started with about five. >> Okay, oh, interesting. So you started with five and you applied 'em to this specific use case to handle the velocity and volume of data- >> Correct. >> that was coming in. But that's obviously dynamic and it's changed. >> Absolutely. >> I presume it's shifted to other areas now. So how did you take what you learned there and then apply it to other use cases in other parts of the organization? >> So, fortunately for us, the process that was being used to capture the information to generate the dashboards and the analyses for the case interview data, which is what we started with- >> Yeah. >> Was essentially being used the same for the hospitalization data that we were getting and for tracking deaths as they were coming in as well. And so the bots essentially were just, we just took one process, take the same bots, copy them over essentially, and had them follow the very same process. We didn't try to introduce any different workflow than what was being done for the first one so we could replicate quickly. So I think it was lucky for us a lot- >> Dave V.: I was going to say, was that luck or by design? >> It was the same people doing the same analyses, right? So in the end they were thinking about how to be efficient themselves. So they kind of had coalesced around a similar process. And so it was kind of like fortunate, but it was by design in terms of how they- >> Dave V.: It was logical to them. >> Logical to them to make it. >> Interesting. >> So for us to be able to insert the bots became pretty easy on the front end. It's just now as we're trying to now expand to other areas that were now encountering like unique processes that we just can't replicate that quickly. We're having to like now dig into. >> So how are you handling that? First of all, how are you determining which processes? Is it sort of process driven? Is it data driven? How do you determine that? >> So obviously right now the focus still is COVID. So the the priorities scale that we've set internally for analyzing those opportunities really is centered around, you know, which things are really going to help our pandemic response, right? We're expecting another surge that's going to happen probably in the next couple of weeks. That'll probably take us through December. Hopefully, at that point, things start to calm down. But that means high-data volume again; these same process. So we're looking at optimizing the processes that we have, what can we do to make those cycles better, faster, you know, what else can we add? The data teams haven't stopped to try to figure out how else can they turn out new data reports, new data analysis, to give us a different perspective on the new variants and the new different outbreaks and hotspots that are popping up. And so we also have to kind of keep up with where they're going on these data dashboards. So they're adding more data into these reports so we know we have to optimize that. And then there's these kind of tangential work. So for example, COVID brought about, unfortunately, a lot of domestic violence reports. And so we have a lot of domestic violence agencies that we work with and that we have interactions with and to monitor their work, we have certain processes. So that's kind of like COVID-adjacent. But it's because it's such a very critical task, we're looking at how we can kind of help in those processes and areas. Same thing in like in our substance abuse area. We have substance use disorder treatment services that we provide. And we're delivering those at a higher rate because COVID kind of created more of a crisis than we would've liked. And so that's how we're prioritizing. It's really about what is the social need, what does the community need, and how can we put the technology work in those areas? >> So how do you envision the future of automation in your organization and the future of your organization? What does that look like? Paint a picture for us. >> So I'm hoping that it really does, you know, so we're going to take everything that's COVID related in the disease control areas, both in terms of our laboratory operations, in terms of our clinic operations, the way we respond, vaccination campaigns, things of that nature. And we're going to look at it to see what can efficiencies can we do there because it's a natural outgrowth of everything we've done on COVID up to this point. So, you know, it's almost like it's as simple as you're just replicating it with another disease. The disease might have different characteristics, but the work process that we follow is very similar. It's not like we're going to change everything and do something completely different for a respiratory condition as we would for some other type of foodborne condition or something else that might happen. So we certainly see very easy opportunities to just to grow out what we've already done in terms of the processes is to do that. So that's wave one, is really focus on that grow out. The second piece I think is to look at these kind of other general kind of community-based type of operations and see what operations we can do there to kind of implement some improvements there. And then I'm certainly in my new role of, in Deputy Director of Operation, I'm a CIO before. Now that I'm in this operations role, I have access to the full administrative apparatus for the department. And believe me, there's enough to keep me busy there. (Dave V. Laughing) And so that's going to be kind of my third prong is to kind of look at the implement there. >> Awesome. Go ahead, Dave. >> Yeah, so, this is going to be taking a step back, kind of a higher level view. If we could direct the same level of rigor and attention towards some other thing that we've directed towards COVID, if you could snap your fingers and make that happen, what would that thing be in the arena of public health in LA County in particular, or if you want California, United States. What is something that you feel maybe needs more attention that it's getting right now? >> So I think I touched on it a little bit earlier, but I think it's the thing we've been always been trying to get to is how to really become just very intentional about how we share data more actively, right? I don't have to know everything about you, but there are certain things I care about when you go to the doctor for that doctor and that physician to tell me. Our physicians, our healthcare system as you know, is always under a lot of pressure. Doctors don't have the time to sit down and write a form out for me and tell me everything that's going on. During COVID they did because they were, they cared about their patients so much and knew, I need to know what's going on at every single moment. And if I don't tell you what's going on in my office, you'll never know and can't tell us what's going on in the community. So they had a vested interest in telling us. But on a normal day-to-day, they don't have the time for that. I got to replace that. We got to make sure that when we get to, not me only, but everyone in this public health community has to be focused and working with our healthcare partners to automate the dissemination and the distribution of information so that I have the information at my fingers, that I can then tell you, "Here's what's going on in your local community," down to your neighborhood, down to your zip code, your census tracked, down to your neighbors' homes. We'll be able to tell you, "This is your risk. Here are the things that are going on. This is what you have to watch out for." And the more that we can be more that focused and laser-focused on meeting that goal, we will be able to do our job more effectively. >> And you can do that while preserving people's privacy. >> Privacy, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. But if people are informed then they can make their own decisions. >> Correct. >> And they're not frustrated at the systems. David, we got to wrap. >> Sure. >> But maybe you can help us. What's your impression of the, first of all, is this your first Forward? You've been to others? >> This is my first time. >> Okay. >> My first time. >> What's your sort of takeaway when you go back to the office or home and people say, "Hey, how was the show? What, what'd you learn?" What are you going to say? >> Well, from just seeing all the partners here and kind of seeing all the different events I've been able to go to and the sessions there's, you don't know many times I've gone to and say, "We've got to be doing that." And so there's certainly these opportunities for, you know, more AI, more automation opportunities that we have not, we just haven't even touched on really. I think that we really need to do that. I have to be able to, as a public institution at some point our budgets get capped. We only have so much that we're going to receive. Even riding this wave, there's only so much we're going to be able to get. So we have to be very efficient and use our resources more. There's a lot more that we can do with AI, a lot more with the tools that we saw, some of the work product that are coming out at this conference that we think we can directly apply to kind of take the humans out of that, their traditional roles, get them doing higher level work so I can get the most out of them and have this other more mundane type of work, just have the systems just do it. I don't need anybody doing that necessarily, that work. I need to be able to leverage them for other higher level capabilities. >> Well thank you for that. Thanks for coming on theCUBE and really appreciate. Dave- >> It's been great talking to you guys, thank you. >> Dave, you know, I love software shows because the business impact is so enormous and I especially love cool software shows. You know, this first of all, the venue. 3,500 people here. Very cool venue. I like the fact that it's not like booth in your face, booth competition. I mean I love VMware, VMworld, VMware Explore. But it's like, "My booth is bigger than your booth." This is really nice and clean, and it's all about the experience. >> A lot of steak, not as much sizzle. >> Yeah, definitely. >> A lot of steak. >> And the customer content at the UiPath events is always outstanding. But we are entering a new era for UiPath, and we're talking. We heard a lot about the Enterprise platform. You know, the big thing is this company's been in this quarterly shock-lock since last April when it went public. And it hasn't all been pretty. And so new co-CEO comes in, they've got, you know, resetting priorities around financials, go to market, they've got to have profitable growth. So watching that that closely. But also product innovation so the co-CEOs will be able to split that up, split their duties up. Daniel Dines the product visionary, product guru. Rob Enslin, you know- making the operations work. >> Operations execution business, yeah. >> We heard that Carl Eschenbach did the introduction. Carl's a major operator, wanted that DNA into the company. 'Cause they got to keep product innovation. And I want to, I want to see R&D spending, stay relatively high. >> Product innovation, but under the heading of platform. And that's the key thing is just not being that tool set. The positioning has been, I think, accurate that, you know, over history, we started with these RPA tools and now we've moved into business process automation and now we're moving into new frontiers where, where truly, AI and ML are being leveraged. I love the re-infer story about going in and using natural national (chuckles) national, natural language processing. I can't even say it, to go through messaging. That's sort of a next-level of intelligence to be able to automate things that couldn't be automated before. So that whole platform story is key. And they seem to have made a pretty good case for their journey into platform as far as I'm concerned. >> Well, yeah, to me again. So it's always about the customers, want to come to an event like this, you listen to what they say in the keynotes and then you listen to what the customers say. And there's a very strong alignment in the UiPath community between, you know, the marketing and the actual implementation. You know, marketing's always going to be ahead. But, we saw this a couple of years ago with platform. And now we're seeing it, you know, throughout the customer base, 10,000+ customers. I think this company could have, you know, easily double, tripled, maybe even 10x that. All right, we got to wrap. Dave Nicholson, thank you. Two weeks in a row. Good job. And let's see. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news. Check out thecube.net; wikibon.com has the research. We'll be on the road as usual. theCUBE, you can follow us. UiPath Forward 5, Dave Vellante for Dave Nicholson. We're out and we'll see you next time. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

>>Hello. Welcome back to our super cloud 22 event. I'm John F host the cue with my co-host Dave ante. Extracting the signal from noise. We're proud to have two amazing cube alumnis here. We got Sanja Putin. Who's now the CEO of cohesive the emo Aaron who's the CTO. Co-founder also former CEO Cub alumni. The father of hyper-converged welcome back to the cube I endorsed the >>Cloud. Absolutely. Is the father. Great >>To see you guys. Thank thanks for coming on and perfect timing. The new job taking over that. The helm Mo it at cohesive big news, but part of super cloud, we wanna dig into it. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you for having >>Us here. So first of all, we'll get into super before we get into the Supercloud. I want to just get the thoughts on the move Sanjay. We've been following your career since 2010. You've been a cube alumni from that point, we followed that your career. Why cohesive? Why now? >>Yeah, John David, thank you first and all for having us here, and it's great to be at your event. You know, when I left VMware last year, I took some time off just really primarily. I hadn't had a sabbatical in probably 18 years. I joined two boards, Phillips and sneak, and then, you know, started just invest and help entrepreneurs. Most of them were, you know, Indian Americans like me who were had great tech, were looking for the kind of go to market connections. And it was just a wonderful year to just de to unwind a bit. And along the, the way came CEO calls. And I'd asked myself, the question is the tech the best in the industry? Could you see value creation that was signi significant and you know, three, four months ago, Mohit and Carl Eschenbach and a few of the board members of cohesive called me and walk me through Mo's decision, which he'll talk about in a second. And we spent the last few months getting to know him, and he's everything you describe. He's not just the father of hyperconverge. And he wrote the Google file system, wicked smart, built a tech platform better than that second time. But we had to really kind of walk through the chemistry between us, which we did in long walks in, in, you know, discrete places so that people wouldn't find us in a Starbucks and start gossiping. So >>Why Sanjay? There you go. >>Actually, I should say it's a combination of two different decisions. The first one was to, for me to take a different role and I run the company as a CEO for, for nine years. And, you know, as a, as a technologist, I always like, you know, going deep into technology at the same time, the CEO duties require a lot of breadth, right? You're talking to customers, you're talking to partners, you're doing so much. And with the way we've been growing the with, you know, we've been fortunate, it was becoming hard to balance both. It's really also not fair to the company. Yeah. So I opted to do the depth job, you know, be the visionary, be the technologist. And that was the first decision to bring a CEO, a great CEO from outside. >>And I saw your video on the site. You said it was your decision. Yes. Go ahead. I have to ask you, cuz this is a real big transition for founders and you know, I have founder artists cuz everyone, you know, calls me that. But being the founder of a company, it's always hard to let go. I mean nine years as CEO, it's not like you had a, you had a great run. So this was it timing for you? Was it, was it a structural shift, like at super cloud, we're talking about a major shift that's happening right now in the industry. Was it a balance issue? Was it more if you wanted to get back in and in the tech >>Look, I, I also wanna answer, you know, why Sanja, but, but I'll address your question first. I always put the company first what's right for the company. Is it for me to start get stuck the co seat and try to juggle this depth and Brad simultaneously. I mean, I can stroke my ego a little bit there, but it's not good for the company. What's best for the company. You know, I'm a technologist. How about I oversee the technology part in partnership with so many great people I have in the company and I bring someone kick ass to be the CEO. And so then that was the second decision. Why Sanja when Sanjay, you know, is a very well known figure. He's managed billions of dollars of business in VMware. You know, been there, done that has, you know, some of the biggest, you know, people in the industry on his speed dial, you know, we were really fortunate to have someone like that, come in and accept the role of the CEO of cohesive. I think we can take the company to new Heights and I'm looking forward to my partnership with, with Sanja on this. >>It it's we, we called it the splash brothers and >>The, >>In the vernacular. It doesn't matter who gets the ball, whether it's step clay, we shoot. And I think if you look at some of the great partnerships, whether it was gates bomber, there, plenty of history of this, where a founder and a someone who was, it has to be complimentary skills. If I was a technologist myself and wanted to code we'd clash. Yeah. But I think this was really a match me in heaven because he, he can, I want him to keep innovating and building the best platform for today in the future. And our customers tell one customer told me, this is the best tech they've seen since VMware, 20 years ago, AWS, 10 years ago. And most recently this was a global 100 big customers. So I feel like this combination, now we have to show that it works. It's, you know, it's been three, four months. My getting to know him, you know, I'm day eight on the job, but I'm loving it. >>Well, it's a sluman model too. It's more modern example. You saw, he did it with Fred Ludy at service now. Yes. And, and of course at, at snowflake, yeah. And his book, you read his book. I dunno if you've read his book, amp it up, but app it up. And he says, I always you'll love this. Give great deference to the founder. Always show great respect. Right. And for good reason. So >>In fact, I mean you could talk to him, you actually met to >>Frank. I actually, you know, a month or so back, I actually had dinner with him in his ranch in Moana. And I posed the question. There was a number of CEOs that went there and I posed him the question. So Frank, you know, many of us, we grow being deaf guys, you know? And eventually when we take on the home of our CEO, we have to do breadth. How do you do it? And he's like, well, let me tell you, I was never a death guy. I'm a breath guy. >>I'm like, >>That's my answer. Yeah. >>So, so I >>Want the short story. So the day I got the job, I, I got a text from Frank and I said, what's your advice the first time CEO, three words, amp it up, >>Amp it up. Right? Yeah. >>And so you're always on brand, man. >>So you're an amazing operator. You've proven that time and time again at SAP, VMware, et cetera, you feel like now you, you, you wanna do both of those skills. You got the board and you got the operations cuz you look, you know, look at sloop when he's got Scarelli wherever he goes, he brings Scarelli with him as sort of the operator. How, how do you, how are you thinking >>About that? I mean it's early days, but yeah. Yeah. Small. I mean I've, you know, when I was, you know, it was 35,000 people at VMware, 80, 90,000 people at SAP, a really good run. The SAP run was 10 to 20 billion innovative products, especially in analytics and VMware six to 12 end user computing cloud. So I learned a lot. I think the company, you know, being about 2000 employees plus not to mayor tomorrow, but over the course next year I can meet everybody. Right? So first off the executive team, 10 of us, we're, we're building more and more cohesiveness if I could use that word between us, which is great, the next, you know, layers of VPs and every manager, I think that's possible. So I I'm a people person and a customer person. So I think when you take that sort of extroverted mindset, we'll bring energy to the workforce to, to retain the best and then recruit the best. >>And you know, even just the week we, we were announced that this announcement happened. Our website traffic went through the roof, the highest it's ever been, lots of resumes coming in. So, and then lots of customer engagement. So I think we'll take this, but I, I feel very good about the possibilities, because see, for me, I didn't wanna walk into the company to a company where the technology risk was high. Okay. I feel like that I can go to bed at night and the technology risk is low. This guy's gonna run a machine at the current and the future. And I'm hearing that from customers. Now, what I gotta do is get the, the amp it up part on the go to market. I know a little thing or too about >>That. You've got that down. I think the partnership is really key here. And again, nine use the CEO and then Sanja points to our super cloud trend that we've been looking at, which is there's another wave happening. There's a structural change in real time happening now, cloud one was done. We saw that transition, AWS cloud native now cloud native with an kind of operating system kind of vibe going on with on-premise hybrid edge. People say multi-cloud, but we're looking at this as an opportunity for companies like cohesive to go to the next level. So I gotta ask you guys, what do you see as structural change right now in the industry? That's disruptive. People are using cloud and scale and data to refactor their business models, change modern cases with cloud native. How are you guys looking at this next structural change that's happening right now? Yeah, >>I'll take that. So, so I'll start by saying that. Number one, data is the new oil and number two data is exploding, right? Every year data just grows like crazy managing data is becoming harder and harder. You mentioned some of those, right? There's so many cloud options available. Cloud one different vendors have different clouds. There is still on-prem there's edge infrastructure. And the number one problem that happens is our data is getting fragmented all over the place and managing so many fragments of data is getting harder and harder even within a cloud or within on-prem or within edge data is fragmented. Right? Number two, I think the hackers out there have realized that, you know, to make money, it's no longer necessary to Rob banks. They can actually see steal the data. So ransomware attacks on the rise it's become a boardroom level discussion. They say there's a ransomware attack happening every 11 seconds or so. Right? So protecting your data has become very important security data. Security has become very important. Compliance is important, right? So people are looking for data management solutions, the next gen data management platform that can really provide all this stuff. And that's what cohesive is about. >>What's the difference between data management and backup. Explain that >>Backup is just an entry point. That's one use case. I wanna draw an analogy. Let's draw an analogy to my former company, Google right? Google started by doing Google search, but is Google really just a search engine. They've built a platform that can do multiple things. You know, they might have started with search, but then they went down to roll out Google maps and Gmail and YouTube and so many other things on that platform. So similarly backups might be just the first use case, but it's really about that platform on which you can do more with the data that's next gen data management. >>But, but you am, I correct. You don't consider yourself a security company. One of your competitors is actually pivoting and in positioning themselves as a security company, I've always felt like data management, backup and recovery data protection is an adjacency to security, but those two worlds are coming together. How do you see >>It? Yeah. The way I see it is that security is part of data management. You start maybe by backing with data, but then you secure it and then you do more with that data. If you're only doing security, then you're just securing the data. You, you gotta do more with the data. So data management is much bigger. So >>It's a security is a subset of data. I mean, there you go. Big TA Sanjay. >>Well, I mean I've, and I, I, I I'd agree. And I actually, we don't get into that debate. You know, I've told the company, listen, we'll figure that out. Cuz who cares about the positioning at the bottom? My email, I say we are data management and data security company. Okay. Now what's the best word that describes three nouns, which I think we're gonna do management security and analytics. Okay. He showed me a beautiful diagram, went to his home in the course of one of these, you know, discrete conversations. And this was, I mean, he's done this before. Many, if you watch on YouTube, he showed me a picture of an ice big iceberg. And he said, listen, you know, if you look at companies like snowflake and data bricks, they're doing the management security and mostly analytics of data. That's the top of the iceberg, the stuff you see. >>But a lot of the stuff that's get backed archive is the bottom of the iceberg that you don't see. And you try to, if you try to ask a question on age data, the it guy will say, get a ticket. I'll come back with three days. I'll UNIV the data rehydrate and then you'll put it into a database. And you can think now imagine that you could do live searches analytics on, on age data that's analytics. So I think the management, the security, the analytics of, you know, if you wanna call it secondary data or backed up data or data, that's not hot and live warm, colder is a huge opportunity. Now, what do you wanna call one phrase that describes all of it. Do you call that superpower management security? Okay, whatever you wanna call it. I view it as saying, listen, let's build a platform. >>Some people call Google, a search company. People, some people call Google and information company and we just have to go and pursue every CIO and every CSO that has a management and a security and do course analytics problem. And that's what we're doing. And when I talk to the, you know, I didn't talk to all the 3000 customers, but the biggest customers and I was doing diligence. They're like this thing has got enormous potential. Okay. And we just have to now go focus, get every fortune 1000 company to pick us because this problem, even the first use case you talk back up is a little bit like, you know, razor blades and soap you've needed. You needed it 30 years ago and you'll need it for 30 years. It's just that the tools that were built in the last generation that were companies formed in 1990s, one of them I worked for years ago are aids are not built for the cloud. So I think this is a tremendous opportunity where many of those, those, those nos management security analytics will become part of what we do. And we'll come up with the right phrase for what the companies and do course >>Sanjay. So ma and Sanja. So given that given that's this Google transition, I like that example search was a data problem. They got sequenced to a broader market opportunity. What super cloud we trying to tease out is what does that change over from a data standpoint, cuz now the operating environments change has become more complex and the enterprises are savvy. Developers are savvy. Now they want, they want SAS solutions. They want freemium and expanding. They're gonna drive the operations agenda with DevOps. So what is the complexity that needs to be abstracted away? How do you see that moment? Because this is what people are talking about. They're saying security's built in, driven by developers. Developers are driving operations behavior. So what is the shift? Where do you guys see this new? Yeah. Expansive for cohesive. How do you fit into super cloud? >>So let me build up from that entry point. Maybe back up to what you're saying is the super cloud, right? Let me draw that journey. So let's say the legacy players are just doing backups. How, how sad is it that you have one silo sitting there just for peace of mind as an insurance policy and you do nothing with the data. If you have to do something with the data, you have to build another silo, you have to build another copy. You have to manage it separately. Right. So clearly that's a little bit brain damaged. Right. So, okay. So now you take a little bit of, you know, newer vendors who may take that backup platform and do a little bit more with that. Maybe they provide security, but your problem still remains. How do you do more with the data? How do you do some analytics? >>Like he's saying, right. How do you test development on that? How do you migrate the data to the cloud? How do you manage it? The data at scale? How do you do you provide a unified experience across, across multiple cloud, which you're calling the super cloud. That's where cohesive goes. So what we do, we provide a platform, right? We have tentacles in on-prem in each of the clouds. And on top of that, it looks like one platform that you manage. We have a single control plane, a UI. If you may, a single pin of glass, if, if you may, that our customers can use to manage all of it. And now it looks, starts looking like one platform. You mentioned Google, do you, when you go to, you know, kind Google search or a URL, do you really care? What happens behind the scenes mean behind the scenes? Google's built a platform that spans the whole world. No, >>But it's interesting. What's behind the scenes. It's a beautiful now. And I would say, listen, one other thing to pull on Dave, on the security part, I saw a lot of vendors this day in this space, white washing a security message on top of backup. Okay. And CSO, see through that, they'll offer warranties and guarantees or whatever, have you of X million dollars with a lot of caveats, which will never paid because it's like escape clause here. We won't pay it. Yeah. And, and what people really want is a scalable solution that works. And you know, we can match every warranty that's easy. And what I heard was this was the most scalable solution at scale. And that's why you have to approach this with a Google type mindset. I love the fact that every time you listen to sun pitch, I would, what, what I like about him, the most common word to use is scale. >>We do things at scale. So I found that him and AUR and some of the early Google people who come into the company had thought about scale. And, and even me it's like day eight. I found even the non-tech pieces of it. The processes that, you know, these guys are built for simple things in some cases were better than some of the things I saw are bigger companies I'd been used to. So we just have to continue, you know, building a scale platform with the enterprise. And then our cloud product is gonna be the simple solution for the masses. And my view of the world is there's 5,000 big companies and 5 million small companies we'll push the 5 million small companies as the cloud. Okay. Amazon's an investor in the company. AWS is a big partner. We'll talk about I'm sure knowing John's interest in that area, but that's a cloud play and that's gonna go to the cloud really fast. You not build you're in the marketplace, you're in the marketplace. I mean, maybe talk about the history of the Amazon relationship investing and all that. >>Yeah, absolutely. So in two years back late 2020, we, you know, in collaboration with AWS who also by the way is an investor now. And in cohesive, we rolled out what we call data management as a service. It's our SaaS service where we run our software in the cloud. And literally all customers have to do is just go there and sign on, right? They don't have to manage any infrastructure and stuff. What's nice is they can then combine that with, you know, software that they might have bought from cohesive. And it still looks like one platform. So what I'm trying to say is that they get a choice of the, of the way they wanna consume our software. They can consume it as a SAS service in the cloud. They can buy our software, manage it themselves, offload it to a partner on premises or what have you. But it still looks like that one platform, what you're calling a Supercloud >>Yeah. And developers are saying, they want the bag of Legos to compose their solutions. That's the Nirvana they want to get there. So that's, it has to look the same. >>Well, what is it? What we're calling a Superlo can we, can we test that for a second? So data management and service could span AWS and on-prem with the identical experience. So I guess I would call that a Supercloud I presume it's not gonna through AWS span multiple clouds, but, but >>Why not? >>Well, well interesting cuz we had this, I mean, so, okay. So we could in the future, it doesn't today. Well, >>David enough kind of pause for a second. Everything that we do there, if we do it will be customer driven. So there might be some customers I'll give you one Walmart that may want to store the data in a non AWS cloud risk cuz they're competitors. Right. So, but the control plane could still be in, in, in the way we built it, but the data might be stored somewhere else. >>What about, what about a on-prem customer? Who says, Hey, I, I like cohesive. I've now got multiple clouds. I want the identical experience across clouds. Yeah. Okay. So, so can you do that today? How do you do that today? Can we talk >>About that? Yeah. So basically think roughly about the split between the data plane and the control plane, the data plane is, you know, our cohesive clusters that could be sitting on premises that could be sitting in multiple data centers or you can run an instance of that cluster in the cloud, whichever cloud you choose. Right. That's what he was referring to as the data plane. So collectively all these clusters from the data plane, right? They stored the data, but it can all be managed using the control plane. So you still get that single image, the single experience across all clouds. And by the way, the, the, the, the cloud vendor does actually benefit because here's a customer. He mentioned a customer that may not wanna go to AWS, but when they get the data plane on a different cloud, whether it's Azure, whether it's the Google cloud, they then get data management services. Maybe they're able to replicate the data over to AWS. So AWS also gains. >>And your deployment model is you instantiate the cohesive stack on each of the regions and clouds, is that correct? And you building essentially, >>It all happens behind the scenes. That's right. You know, just like Google probably has their tentacles all over the world. We will instantiate and then make it all look like one platform. >>I mean, you should really think it's like a human body, right? The control planes, the head. Okay. And that controls everything. The data plane is large because it's a lot of the data, right? It's the rest of the body, that data plane could be wherever you want it to be. Traditionally, the part the old days was tape. Then you got disk. Now you got multiple clouds. So that's the way we think about it. And there on that piece of it will be neutral, right? We should be multi-cloud to the data plane being every single place. Cause it's customer demand. Where do you want your store data? Air gapped. On-prem no problem. We'll work with Dell. Okay. You wanna be in a particular cloud, AWS we'll work then optimized with S3 and glacier. So this is where I think the, the path to a multi-cloud or Supercloud is to be customer driven, but the control plane sits in Amazon. So >>We're blessed to have a number of, you know, technical geniuses in here. So earlier we were speaking to Ben wa deja VI, and what they do is different. They don't instantiate an individual, you know, regions. What they do is of a single global. Is there a, is there an advantage of doing it the way the cohesive does it in terms of simplicity or how do you see that? Is that a future direction for you from a technology standpoint? What are the trade offs there? >>So you want to be where the data is when you said single global, I take it that they run somewhere and the data has to go there. And in this day age, correct >>Said that. He said, you gotta move that in this >>Day and >>Age query that's, you know, across regions, look >>In this day and age with the way the data is growing, the way it is, it's hard to move around the data. It's much easier to move around the competition. And in these instances, what have you, so let the data be where it is and you manage it right there. >>So that's the advantage of instantiating in multiple regions. As you don't have to move the >>Data cost, we have the philosophy we call it. Let's bring the, the computation to the data rather than the data to >>The competition and the same security model, same governance model, same. How do you, how do you federate that? >>So it's all based on policies. You know, this overarching platform controlled by, by the control plane, you just, our customers just put in the policies and then the underlying nuts and bolts just take care >>Of, you know, it's when I first heard and start, I started watching some of his old videos, ACE really like hyperconverged brought to secondary storage. In fact, he said, oh yeah, that's great. You got it. Because I first called this idea, hyperconverged secondary storage, because the idea of him inventing hyperconverge was bringing compute to storage. It had never been done. I mean, you had the kind of big VC stuff, but these guys were the first to bring that hyperconverge at, at Nutanix. So I think this is that same idea of bringing computer storage, but now applied not to the warm data, but to the rest of the data, including a >>Lot of, what about developers? What's, what's your relationship with developers? >>Maybe you talk about the marketplace and everything >>He's yeah. And I'm, I'm curious as to do you have a PAs layer, what we call super PAs layer to create an identical developer experience across your Supercloud. I'm gonna my >>Term. So we want our customers not just to benefit from the software that we write. We also want them to benefit from, you know, software that's written by developers by third party people and so on and so forth. So we also support a marketplace on the platform where you can download apps from third party developers and run them on this platform. There's a, a number of successful apps. There's one, you know, look like I said, our entry point might be backups, but even when backups, we don't do everything. Look, for instance, we don't backup mainframes. There is a, a company we partner with, you know, and their software can run in our marketplace. And it's actually used by many, many of our financial customers. So our customers don't get, just get the benefit of what we build, but they also get the benefit of what third parties build. Another analogy I like to draw. You can tell. And front of analogy is I drew an analogy to hyperscale is like Google. Yeah. The second analogy I like to draw is that to a simple smartphone, right? A smartphone starts off by being a great phone. But beyond that, it's also a GPS player. It's a, it's a, it's a music player. It's a camera, it's a flashlight. And it also has a marketplace from where you can download apps and extend the power of that platform. >>Is that a, can we think of that as a PAs layer or no? Is it really not? You can, okay. You can say, is it purpose built for what you're the problem that you're trying to solve? >>So we, we just built APIs. Yeah. Right. We have an SDK that developers can use. And through those APIs, they get to leverage the underlying services that exist on the platform. And now developers can use that to take advantage of all that stuff. >>And it was, that was a key factor for me too. Cause I, what I, you know, I've studied all the six, seven players that sort of so-called leaders. Nobody had a developer ecosystem, nobody. Right? The old folks were built for the hardware era, but anyones were built for the cloud to it didn't have any partners were building on their platform. So I felt for me listen, and that the example of, you know, model nine rights, the name of the company that does back up. So there's, there's companies that are built on and there's a number of others. So our goal is to have a big tent, David, to everybody in the ecosystem to partner with us, to build on this platform. And, and that may take over time, but that's the way we're build >>It. And you have a metadata layer too, that has the intelligence >>To correct. It's all abstract. That that's right. So it's a combination of data and metadata. We have lots of metadata that keeps track of where the data is. You know, it allows you to index the data you can do quick searches. You can actually, you, we talking about the control plan from that >>Tracing, >>You can inject a search that'll through search throughout your multi-cloud environment, right? The super cloud that you call it. We have all that, all that goodness sounds >>Like a Supercloud John. >>Yeah. I mean, data tracing involved can trace the data lineage. >>You, you can trace the data lineage. So we, you know, provide, you know, compliance and stuff. So you can, >>All right. So my final question to wrap up, we guys, first of all, thanks for coming on. I know you're super busy, San Jose. We, we know what you're gonna do. You're gonna amp it up and, you know, knock all your numbers out. Think you always do. But what I'm interested in, what you're gonna jump into, cuz now you're gonna have the creative license to jump in to the product, the platform there has to be the next level in your mind. Can you share your thoughts on where this goes next? Love the control plane, separate out from the data plane. I think that plays well for super. How >>Much time do you have John? This guy's got, he's got a wealth. Ditis keep >>Going. Mark. Give us the most important thing you're gonna focus on. That kind of brings the super cloud and vision together. >>Yeah. Right away. I'm gonna, perhaps I, I can ion into two things. The first one is I like to call it building the, the machine, the system, right. Just to draw an analogy. Look, I draw an analogy to the us traffic system. People from all walks of life, rich, poor Democrats, Republicans, you know, different states. They all work in the, the traffic system and we drive well, right. It's a system that just works. Whereas in some other countries, you know, the system doesn't work. >>We know, >>We know a few of those. >>It's not about works. It's not about the people. It's the same people who would go from here to those countries and, and not dry. Well, so it's all about the system. So the first thing I, I have my sights on is to really strengthen the system that we have in our research development to make it a machine. I mean, it functions quite well even today, but wanna take it to the next level. Right. So that I wanna get to a point where innovation just happens in the grassroots. And it just, just like >>We automations scale optic brings all, >>Just happens without anyone overseeing it. Anyone there's no single point of bottleneck. I don't have to go take any diving catches or have you, there are people just working, you know, in a decentralized fashion and innovation just happens. Yeah. The second thing I work on of course is, you know, my heart and soul is in, you know, driving the vision, you know, the next level. And that of course is part of it. So those are the two things >>We heard from all day in our super cloud event that there's a need for an, an operating system. Yeah. Whether that's defacto standard or open. Correct. Do you see a consortium around the corner potentially to bring people together so that things could work together? Cuz there really isn't no stand there. Isn't a standards bodies. Now we have great hyperscale growth. We have on-prem we got the super cloud thing happening >>And it's a, it's kind of like what is an operating system? Operating system exposes some APIs that the applications can then use. And if you think about what we've been trying to do with the marketplace, right, we've built a huge platform and that platform is exposed through APIs. That third party developers can use. Right? And even we, when we, you know, built more and more services on top, you know, we rolled our D as we rolled out, backup as a service and a ready for thing security as a service governance, as a service, they're using those APIs. So we are building a distributor, putting systems of sorts. >>Well, congratulations on a great journey. Sanja. Congratulations on taking the hem. Thank you've got ball control. Now you're gonna be calling the ball cohesive as they say, it's, >>It's a team. It's, you know, I think I like that African phrase. If you want to go fast, you go alone. If you wanna go far, you go together. So I've always operated with the best deal. I'm so fortunate. This is to me like a dream come true because I always thought I wanted to work with a technologist that frees me up to do what I like. I mean, I started as an engineer, but that's not what I am today. Right? Yeah. So I do understand the product and this category I think is right for disruption. So I feel excited, you know, it's changing growing. Yeah. No. And it's a, it requires innovation with a cloud scale mindset and you guys have been great friends through the years. >>We'll be, we'll be watching you. >>I think it's not only disruption. It's creation. Yeah. There's a lot of white space that just hasn't been created yet. >>You're gonna have to, and you know, the proof, isn't the pudding. Yeah. You already have five of the biggest 10 financial institutions in the us and our customers. 25% of the fortune 500 users, us two of the biggest five pharmaceutical companies in the world use us. Probably, you know, some of the biggest companies, you know, the cars you have, you know, out there probably are customers. So it's already happening. >>I know you got an IPO filed confidentially. I know you can't talk numbers, but I can tell by your confidence, you're feeling good right now we are >>Feeling >>Good. Yeah. One day, one week, one month at a time. I mean, you just, you know, I like the, you know, Jeff Bezos, Andy jazzy expression, which is, it's always day one, you know, just because you've had success, even, you know, if, if a and when an IPO O makes sense, you just have to stay humble and hungry because you realize, okay, we've had a lot of success in the fortune 1000, but there's a lot of white space that hasn't picked USS yet. So let's go, yeah, there's lots of midmarket account >>Product opportunities are still, >>You know, I just stay humble and hungry and if you've got the team and then, you know, I'm really gonna be working also in the ecosystem. I think there's a lot of very good partners. So lots of ideas brew through >>The head. Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on our super cloud event and, and, and also doubling up on the news of the new appointment and congratulations on the success guys. Coverage super cloud 22, I'm sure. Dave ante, thanks for watching. Stay tuned for more segments after this break.

(light music) >> Hello, welcome back everybody to theCUBE's coverage in New York City of AWS Summit 2022. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We had Dave Vellante, Lisa Martin here earlier. I'm going to wrap it up here with James Forrester, last interview of the day here in New York. Wish we would have had another day. It's a packed house, 10,000 people. James Forrester's the VP Worldwide Technical Leader for VMware's Cloud on AWS. On AWS is a big distinction. James, welcome to theCube. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you so much, John. It's great to be here. >> So I think it's been like six years since the announcement of VMware's Cloud on AWS, which is a separate instance, separate hardware, but it's changed the game for VMware. You guys have done a lot of work, successful traction with customers. Clarified, I remember at that time, it really clarified VMware's Cloud play. Which then gave VMware more time to work on what it's doing now, which is, you know, using all their assets and their operations with Tanzu, Monterey, Cloud Native, Cross Cloud. What they call you guys call Cross Cloud, I call Super Cloud, action, a lot of stuff happening. So thanks for coming on. Okay. So first question is, what's the future look like for VMware's Cloud on AWS? >> Super bright, super bright. And there's a couple of great reasons for that. I think firstly, what we're seeing is that customers have now made enough progress in their cloud journeys. Many of them have chosen AWS and they're going full force. We're going to help them go faster. We're going to help them get there and get native to those adjacent services much quicker with more confidence and more resiliency. So it's a super exciting time to be doing what we do. >> You know, VMware has had a steady install base, okay. I mean basically it's like almost ingrained in the operations. What do you guys see as that next level step up function? Because you know, obviously Broadcom is buying VMware. Obviously that utility will be in place, but there's more. There's more there that customers can tap into. This is the promise of the cross-cloud. How do you talk about that when you got the AWS action? How does that all integrate? >> Yeah, absolutely. And of course, because so many customers are going to AWS on their own cloud journeys right now, what we get to have the conversation about is how they can get there more confidently. And so for customers who are just starting out, who are looking at their application portfolios, who have a ton of skilled IT professionals who they want to bring into that cloud journey, they can use the skills they already have. For those folks who are a little bit further along but they may be finding that refactoring their applications is more complex, more difficult that they anticipated, we give them a way of moving with confidence and with much less risk so they can do those cloud journeys that they anticipated. >> You know, James, I want to get your thoughts on what the state of the current situation is, vis-à-vis, your customers and your customers' appetite for AWS services. 'Cause one of the promises of the original deal was clarifying messaging but more importantly, customers can get the VMware Cloud and take advantage of the higher level services on AWS. What's the update there? What's the current state of the art? What's some of the patterns that you're seeing on the uptake of services and how they're working together? >> Yeah, it's a great call out. And honestly, one of the misconceptions that I address right out of the gate is that somehow going VMware Cloud takes you away from those services. It doesn't, it gets you closer to them. Full, direct, native access to all of those hundreds of great AWS services. So what we often find is that customers have their enterprise data, inside data workloads in their data centers. But what they want to do is get that up next to the AWS services that can use it, like Redshift and Athena and Glue. They can move those workloads right adjacent to those services to start using them right away. So it's a great way to look at the platform. >> So one of the observations that's pretty well understood right now by most people, I'd say 90%, if not more, not a hundred percent 'cause I've heard people like not get it, but it's pretty clear that the operating model for the the enterprise will be hybrid as a steady state. I don't think there's any debate on that unless you think there is. >> Do you feel the same- >> No debate. No debate. >> Okay. Hybrid's a steady state. What does that mean as clients start to think about edge and their data centers. 'Cause now the private cloud is back in the game. So I've heard people talk about private cloud, which we, I think we coined the term with Dave, Wikibon years ago, but it kind of went away because that was not the public cloud. So public cloud won, on premise didn't go away. We saw Amazon with Outpost. So now they're like, I can still have stuff on prem and run it in a cloud operations. So they're calling that private cloud, I think. So you're starting to hear the same things. What it means basically is that hybrid is winning. It's the standard. What does the hybrid environment look like from a VMware perspective as you guys look at that and have been building that out 'cause you have customers that are on premises. >> Yeah. >> Is it just to the cloud and back? Is it, is there any changes? Is there new connective tissue? Is there a glue layer? What's the operating model for VMware customers? >> Well, customers wanted those same benefits from public cloud agility, cost benefits, elasticity, innovation, sovereignty, sustainability, but they wanted to be able to do that everywhere. They wanted it in their data centers. They wanted it at the edge. And as you've pointed out public cloud delivered that for customers. AWS first out there delivering that for customers. Now with innovations like VMware Cloud and AWS outpost, we're able to bring that back into the data center. We're able to bring those same benefits of public cloud into the customers on-prem environment. And you're right. We see hybrid just rolling and rolling and being able to offer our solution across all of it. >> Yeah, we're big fans of VMware because theCube's 12 years old, we've been at every VMworld. Now they're calling it VMware Explorer, the events coming up. So the folks watching, plug for VMware Explorer, formerly VMworld, it's on the schedule. Content catalog just came out last week. It's looking pretty good. So put a plug out there. We'll be there with theCube, two sets. So you know, if you're going to VMworld, now Explorer go register, get up there. It's in San Francisco, always a great event. vSphere and vSAN, always great products. But you got Carbon Black, you got Security. So these things have all been working kind of pistons for VMware. Tanzu, I know Raghu and those guys are doing it. Craig McLuckie and team, they're working on that. You got Tanzu, you got Monterey. That's the new cloud native thing. How is that tracking vis-à-vis, the operating model of the the core engine, vSphere, vSAN and others. And then with the native services of Cloud. So you got AWS Cloud with VMware Cloud, vSphere, vSAN, Carbon Black, and Security. And then you got the Tanzu over here. How are those three things coming together? >> Well, the services that customers know and love first and foremost that they've been running the mission critical workloads on, vSphere, vSAN, NSX. What VMware cloud and AWS is, is a packaging together of those services. So customers don't have to configure it all themselves and do the heavy lifting. We manage and run it on their behalf. What we are adding to that most recently with Tanzu is now the ability to run containers within the same environment. 'Cause customers tell us they've got parts of their organization that are very much on vSphere VMs. Parts of their organization are moving to containers. We want be able to provide a single operating model, a single layer, a single way of managing all of that. No matter where it's deployed. >> You know, remember back in the day, when Raghu wasn't the CEO, Carl Eschenbach was there, Sanjay Poonen was there. Carl's now at Sequoia Capital, Raghu's a CEO. Sanjay's kind of looking for a next gig. I always said, why doesn't vSphere and NSX become that abstraction layer and commoditize the network so that white boxes and Dell and HP could all play in that layer? It just never happened yet. Is that something you guys talk about at all? Like, I mean in the, in the smokey room, in the execs, is that happening? What's the vision? >> Well, we always work backwards- from customers, right? (John laughing) And what customers are telling us is they want us to help them with that undifferentiated heavy lifting. So who knows where that could take us, but right now we're very focused on helping those customers move with confidence to the cloud. >> You didn't take the bait on that one. I appreciate that. (James laughing) Okay. So let's get some perspective. You're out with customers. What are the big things that you're seeing right now from your customers right now? 'Cause you look behind us here, 10,000 people at this event. This is not a no-show. This is not a throwaway event in, you know, somewhere in the corner of the world. This is New York City, only one summit. This is bigger than Snowflake Summit and that was packed. So from an event standpoint, this is pretty a big game statement here for AWS. These companies are not experiencing headwinds, they're changing. So what are your customers telling you around what they're looking at for the cloud native architecture? I mean obviously the digital transformation is continuing, obviously clouds here. And again, we were saying earlier, this is the first time in history that the cloud hyperscalers have been in market during a so-called downturn. So there's no other data. 2008, I wouldn't call 'em up and running. They were building, but AWS, Azure, others, these cloud players they're in market. And so you're starting to see kind of some data coming out saying, Hey, this thing's still working, the engine of innovation is cranking out and it's not slowing down the digital transformation. It might change the capital markets and valuations but it's not changing customers. That's what I'm hearing. Now, you probably would agree with that, right? >> James: I think that's exactly right. >> Okay. So let's stay with that. If you believe that, then it's like, okay, what are they doing? So what are customers doubling down on? What are some of the patterns you're seeing in the environment today that you could share with the audience? >> Yeah, so I think first and foremost is that steady transition to the cloud to deliver all of those benefits, agility, cost, elasticity, innovation, sovereignty, sustainability that hasn't gone away at all. In fact, it's only accelerated. With workloads like virtual desktops, which became so critical during COVID the need to be able to provide that kind of scalable elastic capacity has only increased. Now, coupled with that, most of these customers are already on a cloud journey. And while some folks may have had the luxury of letting that go a little bit more slowly, nowadays the urgency is pervasive across all of the industries that we get to talk to in New York. Everyone needs to go faster. Everybody's not seeing the progress that they expected that we think we can help them deliver. So the opportunity I think that's come out of COVID is more workloads, different use cases, disaster recovery, ransomware- >> Is that more of an awareness or reality or both? >> Both. Absolutely. >> Okay. So let me ask the next question. 'Cause this is a good conversation, I think. I agree a hundred percent. We're seeing the same exact thing. Now let's talk about how companies are thinking about the real opportunity that's emerged, which is refactoring the business model without actually changing the makeup of the organization per se, to take on new territories and potentially take over categories. >> James: Mm hmm. >> So I mean a data warehouse and a data cloud's kind of the same thing. Snowflake probably wouldn't like me saying that they're a data warehouse because they call themselves a data cloud, but it's kind of the same thing, just refactored on AWS. >> James: Yep. >> That's a super cloud. So that's an opportunity for everyone to do that in every vertical. How many customers are actually thinking that way and actually taking steps to pursue that, capture that opportunity? Or do you agree it's the opportunity? >> No, I think that that is an opportunity and I love that idea of super cloud in that what I think customers have started to realize, over the last couple of years in particular, is it's very difficult to take advantage of all of those great cloud services if your applications are still behind a whole lot of different layers of firewalls and so forth. So getting the application close to those services, in proximity to those services is that first step in modernization. Then it doesn't have to be a change the wings on the plane while it's flying conversation, which- >> John: Yeah. >> You know, is very risky for a lot of organizations. >> John: Exactly. >> It's a let's get the plane going a little bit faster. Let's get the plane going a little bit smoother, and let's get the plane to its destination with less risk. >> You know, James, that reminds me of the old school conversations of non disruptive operations. Remember those days? >> James: I do, yeah. >> Mostly around storage and, and servers. But that's what basically what you're saying. Transform while operating, right? >> James: Exactly. >> So this is, you can do both. You got to make time and it's a talent question too. I'd love to get your thoughts on how customers are thinking about who do you put on which task. 'Cause you want your A players on both areas. You don't want all your A players, what I hear, CSOs and CIOs telling me is that, I put all my A players on transformation, I got no one running the business. >> James: Mm hmm. >> So you got to kind of balance. That's a cultural team decision. >> It's a cultural team decision. It's also a skills marketplace decision. >> John: Yeah. >> And there's a practical reality to the skills that are available and how fast you can hire them. So a big part of the conversation that we have is when customers have existing skills sets, plug those into their transformation, plug those into their business outcomes. I like to use the phrase, "Let's make heroes out of IT" because they can be a much more critical player than they think they can be. Yeah, IT basically is not even around anymore. It's part of the organization. And then you have data science and data engineering coming in. So it's, you know, IT is not a department anymore, it's the company >> Exactly right. >> If you're kind of going down that road, yeah. >> Yeah. Alright, so final question. What's the biggest change you've seen and observed in your current year and a half? You know, we're coming out of COVID, knowing what was before, what sea change, what inflection point are we in now? How would you describe this current market? 'Cause again, we're kind of in a unique market. You know, you got crypto around the corner, people getting attracted to that, little bubbly obviously, reality of cloud and 2.0 or super cloud emerging. On premise is not going away. Edge exploding on the industrial side, especially with machine learning coming along. So this operating model is clearly in sight. What's the biggest observation you've noticed. >> I think it's the sense of urgency over the last couple of years in that most customers I talked to are no longer relaxed about the timing of delivering cloud capabilities to their organizations. Most customers are on sort of a transformation journey of their own and digital transformation and cloud transformation are absolutely fundamental to that. >> One more real quick follow up question if you don't mind, 'cause I appreciate your time. One of the things that's come up a lot in our conversations is the role of the ecosystem. Not only as a part of the business model but also validation of the enablement that cloud offers companies. You have an enabling platform, your ecosystem is well known. And so your customers are starting to develop ecosystems. So if the cloud model kind of trickles like downstream, ecosystem is kind of a proof of something. >> James: Mm hmm. >> What's your view of all this ecosystem discussion as we transform this next generation? >> Yeah, I think it touches on a couple of things. So obviously there is a technology ecosystem, which is evolving very rapidly in support of cloud and cloud transformation. But what's interesting, I think is the business ecosystem that's evolving around it. We're seeing our customers evolve their own businesses to assume that those cloud capabilities will be available to them. And if the cloud capabilities are not available to them in a timely fashion, then the ecosystem starts to have a domino effect. So the ecosystems are interdependent between business, and technology, and skills, and talent. And I think that's a great to be >> James Forrester, they're going to shut us down. The speakers are on, they're going to pull the plug. Thanks for being our last interview here in New York City and bringing us home. Really appreciate you taking the time to come on theCube. >> John, thanks so much. Great to be here, really enjoyed it. Okay. We are wrapping it up here in New York City. I'm John Ford with theCube, great day. For Lisa Martin, Dave Vellante, and the entire crew of theCube here on the ground. Live in person events are back. theCube hybrid, get online, check out our coverage there. The SiliconANGLE and thecube.net. I'm John Furrier signing off from New York City. See you next time. (light music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE Conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome to this CUBE Conversation, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE I'm in the Palo Alto CUBE Studios here with the quarantine crew, doing the remote interviews during this time of COVID. Of course, we want to check in with all of our great esteemed guests and CUBE alumni. We're here with Jerry Chen, partner at Greylock. Jerry, great to see you, it's been a while. Hope you're sheltering in place, nice camera, nice set up you got there at home, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks, John. I set up all the cameras are just for you. Everybody needs their quarantine hobbies, and for me, I kind of dust off the audio visual playbook and set this up, just for theCUBE interviews. But it's good to see you. Glad you and the family are healthy and sane as well. >> Yeah, and same to you. Let's just jump into it, obviously, COVID-19 has caused the virtualization trend, virtual everything. You're no stranger to virtualization, and VMware back in the day really changed the game on server virtualization, but the whole world's becoming virtual. And it's very interesting because now people are feeling, but we in the industry have been talking about inside the ropes for a long time, which is, the future is there, it's going to be about interactions online, software, cloud scale, these things just got accelerated, and the disruption, the change of behavior, Zoom fatigue, Webexing, all this stuff that's happening, people are kind of like, "Wow! This is the future." This is a real impact, and it's mainstream, everyone's feeling about business, to personal, your thoughts? >> Yeah, I think Satya Nadella at Microsoft had this quote recently that they've seen two decade's worth of digital acceleration and transformation in just two months, and I think what we've seen the past four months, John is all the kind of first order effects of virtualization events, not just infrastructure, but like virtualization meetings and people, telemedicine, telehealth, online education, delivery of food, all those trends are just accelerated. We're buying stuff on eCommerce, and Amazon, and Instacart before hand, that's just accelerated. We're moving towards virtualized events, online education, online healthcare, that's just accelerated. So I think we're seeing the first order effects of changing not only how we work, how we communicate, but how we shop, interact, and socialize, it compress two decades within two, three months. And so I think that's changing both how you and I interact and how we build relationships, also how companies interact with their customers, and how companies interact with employees. and it's been exciting time, because one, when there's disruption, there's opportunity, but two is giving guys like you and me a chance to kind of dust off or try new skills, and you and I are both figuring out how to exist and thrive in this role where we're now interacting in this virtualized world. >> And it's still the same game personal relationships. Content is now data. This is stuff that we've been preaching on theCUBE. You've been on many times talking about, I going to get your thoughts as a venture capitalist, whether you're making bets on the future for investments, you have a 10 year horizon, and roughly speaking average on VC deals, enterprises and customers who are building a cloud and data centers, they got to make new bets or double down on stuff they've been doing, or cancel stuff that they had going on, and refactoring. So I want to to get your thoughts on one, first on the VC side, how have you guys refactored your thinking, your meetings, and your bets? >> Yeah, so I would say, three areas, one is how we operate as a VC firm what's changed? Number two, I'll talk about what we're investing in what's good or bad, and thirdly is like, what I think changes for our portfolio companies and how startups think. So first and foremost obviously, we've gone all virtual too, with shelter-in-place, our entire team is now working remotely, working from home, but we're still open for business and we're looking to find new investments, we are investing aggressively right now, and we're just doing things over Zoom. And so we're either A, doing video calls as a partnership, or doing video calls with startups that we're meeting and founders, but I'll be honest, one thing I've done John, is I've turned off the screen more or less, I've done more phone calls because I find that a video call is great for the first or second meeting, but with a founder or executive you have relationship with, it's just really nice to actually, go on a virtual walk where me and the founder of both put AirPods or take the phone to walk outside and kind of have a conversation, that's a little of a higher bandwidth. So, I think how we're operating has changed a little bit, but to your point, is the same business, connecting with a person one-on-one, reading the market, reading the founder, and making a bet. So that hasn't changed. I think on the stuff we're investing in, like you said, all the trends around cloud and APIs and SaaS, that's accelerated. So all the trends around the new workplace, SaaS companies, collaboration, going cloud that's accelerated faster, so some of our companies like Cato Networks that does software defined, wide area networks plus cloud security that just accelerated there in this market called secure access serves edge. We've seen kind of a nice tailwind from that, more and more data is going to cloud so companies like Rockset, that's a database company that you had on theCUBE, they're going to see a benefit from that because more and more data is now in the cloud. Then finally for the founders we work with, the way to go to market, the way to sell like no one's flying around selling one-on-one anymore, you're not meeting a CSO, or the CIO over steak dinner, or you're not going to a conference anymore. So a lot of our companies are figuring out how to do more online sales, bottoms ups adoption, that could be an API, that could be open source, we're trying to find a couple more of our line of business entry to the company and sell that way, versus go to a conference or for one-on-one meeting. So it's interesting, everything's moved faster, but then this slight curve ball on how you connect with your customer has changed. And so what's the Darwin line, it's not the strongest that survives, but the most adaptable. So we're seeing the companies that founders that are most adaptable right now, they're going to thrive. >> It's interesting, we've always talked about from a tech standpoint with DevOps and cloud-native, integration or horizontally scalable has been that ethos of value creation, you've talked about moats in the past, but now it's more real life, is becoming immersed into software, and so I want to get your thoughts on this, and we have a phrase here in theCUBE team is that, every company will become a media company, that's something that we believe in, and you starting to see that people are doing more Zooms, doing more digital events, you mentioned some of the other things. Can you see any other examples where a company has to become blank? Because media is just one element of the new realities of life, right? You got to broadcast, and you got to share your stories and formats, that's media, is there other areas we're seeing, that things that weren't on the radar before with COVID, where companies have to become something like, every company will be blank? Fill in the blank. >> I would say, it's trite to say one, one, was every company is a data company, people have been saying that for a while, that's more true than ever. Number two, I'll be honest, every company now is a healthcare company, right? Because be it in health insurance for employees, the current pandemic is making the reality of both physical health, and emotional health, and mental health key for employees. And so if that was a top cost factor for hiring employees, this could be even more important going forward that every company is a health care company. And thirdly, like you said, every company becomes media company, I would say every company is also either one or two things, they're a Fintech company, because every company is now going online with their content. They wanting to create a one-to-one commercial relationship with a customer, right? That could be ads, could be transaction, could be selling something, so you're now doing business directly with your customer, so every company is a Fintech company, and I would say every company's now also, like you said, content company, right? It's the media creating, but also the data you're taking, the value you add on top of the data you're creating, and then how you share that back to your customer. So you as an enterprise company or a consumer company, you collect data from users, you're to use that data to improve your product, and this could be a SaaS offering, this could be an application, but then take that data through real time analytics, then make your product better and so because of that, if you're a data company, real time data, like our database company mentioned earlier, Rockset becomes more important. If you're a Fintech company, so all things around payments or commercial banking and relationship with your customer make sense. And if a you're a healthcare company because all your employees are now caring about healthcare, just thinking about how to make communication of healthcare with employees a lot more efficient, and a part of the reason why to work for theCUBE and work for a startup is important, so I think those three things are top of mind for all employees and all employers. I think things could change the next six or nine months, but right now I see those three being front and center. >> It's interesting. I wonder if you can add real estate company to that because if you look at the work from home, it's dynamic. >> Yeah >> I had a friend who was a fellow dad with my son's lacrosse team, he lives in Los Gatos, he's been involved in Google, Tesla, building up their facilities, and he had an interesting guest post on SiliconANGLE, and he was saying, it's not just give them some extra pay for their internet access, companies got to rethink the facilities question, right? Because do you pay rent for your employees? Do you provide the VPN, beyond VPN security, for instance? So again, you start to see these new opportunities or challenges, open up new thinking, this is going to be a wave of opportunity. >> Well, that virtualization between work and home has now been blurred like you said earlier, John and so if you're a technology company that enables remote access or distribute access, like Cato Networks when the portfolio comes and Greylock around our road office, home office, that is now how to right? So I had this conversation with Jason of Austin, askSpoke, one of our companies, there's like a mass of hierarchy for working out, and at the base of the mass of hierarchy is like good internet access, right? That's the how to, you need security, right? Because if you don't have secure access, you can't work, and then you have information management, knowledge management, how to communicate, right? And then collaboration, so, you have now this new hierarchy of what is required you to work in this new world, but also the tools and the technologies, be it secured access service edge like CATO or IT Helpdesk for all employees like askSpoke, both of those things become dial tone for any remote work. Just like videoconferencing, we couldn't do this in the same way, 10, 15 years ago, that's become kind of a must have, and so I think it'd be fascinating how we went from the office world where I gave you a laptop, or a computer, or a desk to this home office world, where maybe you now I have to pay for my fancy camera setup and my VPN. >> Well certainly you're getting good ROI on your setup and sure Greylock will take care of that plenty of dough big, billions of dollars under management. And by the way, must have hire things in our houses, ping and internet access, so we fight for that ping time, I got 12 I'm like what's going on? Who's gaming? We have to get the kids off of Twitch, and whatnot. but in all seriousness, this is what the reality is. So now for the average person out there, there's a lot of discussion around mental health, you mentioned taking it off the video conferencing and going for a walk, or just talking on the phone, this speaks to the humanization aspect of what's going on, mental health, social interaction, we're social creatures, collaboration has to be re-imagined. What's your view on all this? >> I think absolutely, look, humans are social creatures by nature, and I think part of the reason why I had this conversation with my founders early during COVID-19, that it's both a healthcare crisis. It's an economic crisis with all the million and millions of people unemployed, but it's also an emotional crisis because one, we're not connected to family, friends, and loved ones, and we're sheltering home with either ourselves or just a handful of people. And so we're trying to figure out ways to like, recreate social connections, and that's a phone call, it's a video call, it's Zoom dinners, it's Zoom dinners, the Zoom parties, is key. I think, going on socially just in walks is another thing to kind of like, play and experience things together. But my two cents is if you're a startup, right now, it can help connect people work-wise or socially, that's just going to be super critical for the new experience. And I think people are discovering new ways to use technology, so Zoom was never meant to be used the way it is today, I think that's amazing. I think how people think about voice video, and email, and chat are changing as well. So I'll finding new ways to like, play games online with my nieces, or communicate with them. And I think as an employer in these companies, like HR software, and how you like manage, and coach, and lead your employees is going to change as well. And so, you have this world where we're all in one building, and think about how you as a CEO, or as a leader now can actually coach, develop, and enable your employees across the world. >> I want to get your thoughts on cloud, we've had many conversations around cloud computing as to rise of AWS, I remember one it was a big Twitter conversation, I think about last year where what enabled Amazon and I think one of the things that came out of it was virtualization enabled them to have all these different servers. What do you see coming out of this virtualization of our lives with the COVID-19, as people start to figure out beyond the triage of stabilization, and as they get foundationally set up in COVID, coming out of it, companies and people have to have a growth strategy, whether it's life or business, people want to come out of this on the upside, whether it's emotional or with their business, what do you see being enabled? What needs to be in place? What kind of scale? What kind of environment? Because this is where I think the entrepreneurs are really going to sharpen their energy on their creativities looking at the expectations and experience needed coming out of this, it may look completely different than what we were talking about a year ago. What's your thoughts? >> Well, I think individually, people can use this time to prove their skills in different ways. So I think as an employee, as CEO, as a founder, you take the time to like invest in new skills, and that could be, "Hey, how do our community collaborate and manage my team remotely?" So I think CEOs and founders that can understand how to motivate, educate, train their employees in this new world, well, those are skills going forward. So communication has always been a great skill John, for any leader, any founder, it's 10X more important in this new virtualized work role, communication, motivation, and leading people over remote work is going to be a new skill that people have. Managing remote teams, managing fully distributed teams or half distributed, half headquarters, so understanding how to organize and lead your team in this kind of half in the office half out of the office role, that's going to be a challenge as well. So any tools, technology and tips there, but I think in terms of the founders that can now hire employees, find customers, sell customers, and manage a distributed team, those three things in this new world, even post COVID-19, we're not going back to the way we were, so the ability to actually use skills around email, creating content, Slack, Zoom, video chat, online conferences, what was that? "Video Killed the Radio Star", the first MTV Video. So, COVID-19, and Zoom, and video collaboration, what's that do to the old skills or the old founders? And what do they enable? So just like TV replaced radio as a medium, and now this virtualized world is going to replace kind of the medium we had beforehand, so, there'll be new generation of founders and investors coming out of this generation that would be for the next 10, 15 years, and I'm excited to be part of that. >> Yeah, and it's super big opportunity, because you have these kind of medium changes, new protocols get developed, new responsibilities and roles emerge, value creation capture, equations change, right? So you're looking at things like online events, for instance, they don't happen anymore, and even when they do come back they'll probably be hybrid anyway. So you got virtual, hybrid, public it sounds like a cloud play to me, public events, hybrid events, and private events, I guess. >> Yeah, virtual private events, but the same thing holds, just like cloud internet increased the reach, right? So all of a sudden, you can reach a bigger audience than just radio, TV, or the newspaper. Now you have these virtualized events like say private events, public events, hybrid events, you as a company or a media property, like theCUBE can now reach a larger audience, right? It's global, you don't have to be there in person, you're going to have the remote audience as a first class citizen, now more than ever, it's just like the internet replacing newspaper and print, people really care about print and newspaper, but really the reach online is always a magnitude larger than print, so all of a sudden you thought more about the print, so the online audience more than print audience. So now going forward, you're going to think about the virtual audience that's remote versus the physical audience. And so you're going to have to create experiences that are their world class or both properties. So just like the cloud, you think about the big three cloud providers, private cloud, as a technology company, you think about all three venues, all three infrastructures as a first class citizen. It's not going to be all one cloud, it's not all going to be one note, if you will. So it forces everyone to think, not just kind of one path, but multiple paths, so like classic problems a lot of founders think, okay, I'm going to do an enterprise private cloud strategy only or I'm going to do a cloud only SaaS strategy. Now founders of this do both the same time, I got to address the private cloud on premise business at the same time as the cloud business, and not just one cloud, three or four clouds around the world. So it forces founders to be able to do more things at one time and the ability for a company to attack multiple venues or multiple territories at the same time, they'll be successful. And the days where I can just do one cloud or one venue, or one audience, those are gone, and so, folks like yourself, John, and what you've built here at theCUBE with everyone else, they can reach multiple audiences at the same time, that's going to be very powerful. >> And we're going to be marketing and doing a lot more online events, like you said, it's going to be easier to tap into our 7000 plus alumni to get people together to create great content. And again, content value to remote audience is interesting. So that shifts into the conversation that everyone talks about the remote worker. Well, what about the remote customer, the remote prospects? So this is going to change how companies have to be change of behaviors. And it's going to be driven by developers, because it's not like one app can solve it, 'cause you got to integrate, you got to have some integration points. So this is the question, are we moving away from that monolithic SaaS app? Or is it going to be some SaaS apps that need to integrate with others? Will there be an abstraction layer of innovation around? Because at the end of the day, these new workloads and new apps going to be built. If you're going to run an event, if I'm a SAP or a big company, I'm not going to rely or may not want to rely on a vendor. In fact, the CEO of SAP said, 'cause their site crashed for their event, "I'm not going to rely on a third party to run my business event." 'Cause their business model is the event, not just a supplier selection for a SaaS app. So interesting kind of new surge of online activity might tip the scales for the supplier side. >> I think you're right John, I think because now the, just like the IT technology is now your business, you're going to basically do one or two things, one, vet the IT technology provider that much higher or harder. But number two to your point, I think the way you sell and you reach companies is going to be through developers and yes, you're going to have these large monolithic SaaS apps before, but almost every SaaS app now has APIs for integration, and so to your point, is that integration and the ability to have multiple companies work together, and share data, and collaborate, that's going to be more important. And so really at Greylock and myself, I've been investing in developer-led technologies and developer-led adoption, or API, or open source-led adoption, for seven plus years now. And the truth of matter is, that's going to be even more powerful going forward. Nassim Taleb would say that's anti-fragile, right? So having one giant app is fragile, but having a bunch of small apps, or a bunch of APIs, or a bunch of developers using your open source technology, or using your API technology to build an application, that's anti-fragile, because at the end of the day, that's going to be more reliable for your customer than a single point of failure, which can be one giant application. So all the big apps like Salesforce, have now other platforms, right? They have APIs, they have extensibility, they understand that there's a long fat tail of solutions needed to build. And all the new startups are doing open source, or API-led adoption 'cause they understand that the fastest route to create value for the customer, is also the most robust technology stack that a customer can build upon. I think that's super insightful, in fact, that is, I think so compelling, because if you think about it, that's the formula for great investments from a startup standpoint. But now, because of COVID, you said, everything's been pulled forward and accelerated at the same time, there's a collision, not all the enterprises are that strong, they're not that developer-led. So I think, to the point about acceleration, now, the enterprises, and we've seen pockets of this with cybersecurity where they have their own, in-house teams doing a variety of different development. The customers have to be developer-led, because that's where the value is, so they have to have a supplier with the right stack and integration frameworks. Now, the customers who haven't really been developer-led, have to be developer-led, what's your take on that? >> Absolutely true. 20 years ago, the CIO of a company that used to be the monopoly supplier technology for the company, they decided what hardware to use, what servers, what stores to use, what applications to buy. And then all of a sudden, like Amazon came around and said, "Well, look, here's a set of APIs, go build what you want." And so the competition for kind of like the centralized decision making became Amazon. And guess what? CIOs reacted, they got better, they got smarter, and those that embrace kind of like an API developer-led adoption, became the CIOs you wanted to have in the company. So I think, CIOs in this cloud mobile era have adopted that philosophy that, look, my job now as the CIO is to enable my developers, my employees, which really the assets of the company is the people, to have the right tools. So you're asked a bunch of cloud APIs, like Rockset or whatever for data, or here's a bunch of resources, or open source technologies for you to pull. So like I invested in a company recently called Chronosphere, it's an open source technology around metrics and monitoring. So, "Hey, use this open source time series database for monitoring your cloud and build upon that," and they're not going to say, "We're going to pick one large vendor that's monolithic," we're going to say, "Here's an open source tech company or a cloud API, go build upon that." And the companies that are embracing that philosophy of API-led or developer-led, John, they're going to be far ahead the better CIOs, the better companies, because the rate of digital adoption has just gone exponential, so we were on this super fast path already, and with quarantine in COVID, we've accelerated all that digital transformation, so every brick-and-mortar retailer now has to be eCommerce retailer. So they're making a slow digital transformation to go from brick-and-mortar stores to online stores. Now like brick-and-mortar retail is pretty much not happening, and probably won't come back to the same levels for a while, they need to accelerate their move towards digital transformation, right? >> And IT certainly exposes the people who haven't really made those investments, because literally action and the mandate, now take action, make those changes, totally want to dig into this developer-led vision, because I think that's very real. And the new decision is going to be made on what to do. I'm happy to see the DevOps thinking, the agile, speed become the table stakes. So with that, this week, Google is having their nine-week digital event of 200 plus sessions, essentially, an asynchronous event, it's going to be sprinkled out, they've kind of pretty much released the videos, most of them today. Over the next eight, nine weeks, you're going to see a lot of videos. Google, one of the big three got AWS, Azure, Google, what's your assessment of the horses on the track relative to the cloud? >> I've been talking about this for seven, eight, nine years, I first met it, like in the first or second Amazon reinvent and what was the forecast? And we said, well, it's not a winner take all, but right now, it's a winner take most. Amazon's clearly the market share leader, Azure coming up quickly behind the enterprise, Google's a third but they're doing some smart things around technology. Google announced a bunch of things today, which I think are very smart. So for example, they announced BigQuery Omni, which is BigQuery that's in query, their kind of a data warehouse, also query data and private cloud Azure or Amazon. And so strategically, if you're the number three player, you're going to push a multi-cloud agenda with BigQuery Omni, or Google Anthos, which is kind of a multi-cloud platform. And for Google, I think is the right strategy. I also think it's the right strategy for most customers to be multi-cloud, because you can't be dependent upon, a single point of failure in your applications. You can't be dependent on a single cloud as well. So I think multi-cloud is probably the direction we're headed as cloud matures. And I think Google's making a bunch of the right choices around embracing multi-cloud, and today they made that choice with BigQuery Omni, and so I think they're playing catch up but they're playing that game. I think Amazon's clue is still in the lead and still it blows my mind, and it's continuing to impress me what they've done over the past 10 years in terms of improving the cloud offering and the cloud services up and down the stack, and I think the past five, six years, what Azure has done, has been super impressive in terms of, Microsoft embracing, open source embracing, cloud as an ethos against their legacy business of operating systems and servers on premise, they've done a great job of embracing the next generation. But I do think, looking around the corner this new developer-led mindset is going to matter, right? So the cloud tomorrow will be APIs, like Stripe for payments, Twilio for communication. So I see the next evolution not just being VMs and containers, but also a bunch of cloud services around data, security, and privacy. And the cloud vendors can build this next generation of database APIs, or privacy APIs, security APIs, that they're going to be in the catbird seat for the next 10 years of applications are going to be built. >> And it'll be interesting to your developer-led position, our conversation around that, if the developer is going to be leading, is it going to be an abstraction layer across multiple clouds? Or do I have to have my Google developers, and my Amazon developers, and my Azure developers? How do you see that playing out? Because I do believe developer-led is the way, the question is, how do you avoid forking resources, right? So you might want to have an (mumbles) I get that, but if I'm going to go double down on say, a cloud, I'm going to go deep, I'm going to hire developers. >> It's interesting, history suggests you have multiple teams remember, we used to have a Unix team or a Sun team inside companies, right? You had a Windows team, you had a kind of a Solaris and Linux team, and there's a Microsoft team, and a non-Microsoft team, in most companies and they didn't really work well together and they had kind of two groups in most companies. I think that was an okay way to get started, but ultimately, to your point, that was not cost effective at all, it was defeating, you see now you had to like have to rethink it, what was my data backup strategy? Okay, I have a Windows backup strategy, and a Unix Solaris backup strategy. So I think we're not going to make the same mistake again, right? I think what will happen, we'll going to have multiple clouds, Amazon, Google, Azure, and then on premise private cloud, so call it, three, four, or five clouds. And then you're going to have a set of tools that can abstract away, not 100% of the clouds, but I think the best developer tools, the best APIs will be multi-cloud. So I can get 80% or 90% of what I want to be done through this developer-led layer of APIs, be it databases or analytics. And then, 10 to 20% of the code, you can write will be able to take care of what's unique to Amazon, what's unique to Azure, what's unique to Google or what's unique to your own private cloud. But I think we're seeing a layer of technology and that's true to all the startups. With back and true to all the startups I see that lets you get most of the way done with a single platform, seamlessly AI technologies, and that's what customers want, right? They don't want to create modal fiefdoms, they want-- >> They want choice. The want choice, but the reality is they don't always get it. I want to go through a throwback to 2010 when Paul Maritz, head of the VMware our first CUBE gig, he said, there's a hardened top. Okay, the hardened top was, you don't worry about what's underneath the top, we're just going to focus on top of the stack that was classic kind of, the stack would develop and you'd had standardization. You mentioned you had Windows teams and Unix teams, but also you could argue that, back then you had Cisco and Wellfleet vendors, but you didn't have two teams of routers, you had one standard that ran the remote interoperability, and OSPF routing, or whatever you had going on, so you had some standardization, how do you view that? Because you want some standardization to have the interoperability, the SLAs and the security, at the same time you want to have flexibility, kind of above what may be called a hardened top, is there a hardened top in multi-cloud? >> I'd say hard top doesn't exist in same way. I think back in the day, you had proprietary technologies, operating systems and firmware, right? So windows was closed, a lot of the network operating systems were closed source. Now you can't get away with that. So you have open source technologies today and public APIs. And so the pressure of both one, competition, two, public APIs that people can read, copy, adjust, three, open source, and it's just customer demand not to be locked into a hard top anymore, that's largely going to go away. So I think most of the major vendors success will try to kind of more or less lock you in and keep you stuck on their platform, their technology, and that's fine, right? Every successful company should be able to do that. But I think the ability to lock you in through proprietary software or operating systems, that's not going to happen anymore. I see through cloud and open source, what we've seen is kind of interoperability, and flexibility is the default, if you can't meet those needs, customers will go other ways. There'll be proprietary technologies, proprietary extensions along the way, but 60, 70% of what you want is going to be compatible with most technologies and most clouds. If you're not going to offer choice and freedom to our customers, they'll go elsewhere. If you don't offer a flexible solution, John, someone else will, and the customers will choose a more flexible solution. >> I would agree with you. Outside of latency, which is laws of physics, value is the lock in, if you're creating value, that's really what the customers want, they get to capture that value. Well, Jerry, great to have you on. I love the new setup. We're going to have to make this more of it. We can bring you in on the podcast when we get Zooms over the weekend, maybe put a panel together. Let's get Carl Eschenbach some VMware alarms to come on, give the perspective, what's going on. And I thank you for taking the time and great to see that you're healthy and doing well. Thanks. >> Me too. Thanks, john. Anytime, I love to be on theCUBE, so I look forward to my next trip. >> All right, Jerry Chen, great CUBE alumni, our first interview over nine years ago, he brought that up. That was at the second reinvent, boy has the world changed, and it's only going to accelerate even faster. Everything's changing new bets are being made, decisions have to be evolving quickly and faster. If you're not fast, you will be in the pile of dead companies and not making it. So, Jerry Chen breaking it down as venture capitalist for Greylock. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (soft music)

>> Narrator: From Sand Hill Road, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's the CUBE. Presenting, The People First Network, insights from entrepreneurs and tech leaders. >> Hello everyone welcome to this special CUBE conversation, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here at Mayfield Fund, on Sand Hill Road and Menlo Park. As part of Mayfield's People First Network, co-creation with SiliconANGLE and theCUBE and Mayfield. Next guest, Beth Devin, Managing Director of Innovation Network and Emerging Technologies at Citi Ventures. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me. >> Hey, thanks for coming in. We're here for the Mayfield fiftieth anniversary, where they're featuring luminaries like yourself, and we're talking about conversations around how the world's changing and the opportunities and the challenges can be met, and how you can share some of your best practices. Talk about what your role is at Citi Ventures and what your focus is. >> Sure, sure, and boy howdy, has it been changing. It's hard to keep up with. I've been at Citi Ventures about two years and one of the reasons I joined was to stand up an Emerging Technology practice. Citi Ventures does a lot of work in corporate venture investing. We tend to be strategic investors, for start up companies that are aligned with the strategy of Citi, as well as our client. We serve probably, eighty percent of the Fortune Five Hundred companies in the world. But we also are a really important part of the innovation ecosystem at Citi. Which is looking at how to drive culture change, broaden mindset, and really, enlist our employees to be part of the innovation process. So, we have an internal incubator, we have a Shark Tank-like process we call Discover Ten X. And what I really bring to the table with my team is monitoring, and learning about, and digesting technology that's not quite ready for commercialization but we think it might be disruptive in a good or challenging way for the bank or our clients. We try to educate and provide content that's helpful to our executives, and just the employee body at large. >> I want to get into a LinkedIn post you wrote, called the Tech Whisperer, which I love. >> Thank you. >> You're there to identify new things to help people understand what that is. But that's not what you've done. You've actually implemented technology. So, on the other side of the coin, in your career. Tell us about some of the things you've done in your career, because you've been a practitioner. >> Beth: Yeah. >> and now you're identifying trends and technologies, before you were on the other side of the table. >> That's right, and sometimes I'll tell you, I have that itch. I miss the operator role, sometimes. Yeah, you know, I feel so fortunate I sort of stumbled on computer science early when I was going to school. And, the first, I'd say twenty years of my career, were working in enterprise I.T, which at that time I couldn't even have made that distinction, like why do you have to say enterprise I.T. I was a software developer, and I was then a DBA, and I even did assembler language programing. So way back when, I think I was so fortunate to fall in to software engineering. It's like problem solving, or puzzle making, and you with your own brain and sort of typing can figure out these problems. Then over the years I became more of a manager and a leader, and sort of about a reputation for being somebody you could put on any hard problem and I'd figure a way out. You know tell me where we're trying to go it looks knotty, like not a fun project, and I would tackle that. And then I'd say, I had some experience working in lots of different industries. Which really gave me an appreciation, for you know, at the end of the day, we can all debate the role that technology plays in companies. But industries, whether it's health care or media, or financial services. There's a lot of the same challenges that we have. So I worked at Turner Broadcasting before it was acquired, you know by Time Warner and AOL. And I learned about media. And then I had a fantastic time working at Charles Schwab. That was my first big Financial Services role when it came back to the bay area. I worked at Art.Com, it was a need converse company, the first company I worked at where I was in charge of all the technology. We had no brick and mortar, and if the technology wasn't working, we weren't earning revenue, in fact, not only that, we were really making customers angry. I also had a role at a start up, where I was the third person to join the company, and we had a great CEO who had a vision, but it was on paper. And we hadn't really figured out how to build this. I was very proud to assemble a team, get an office, and have a product launch in a year. >> So you're a builder, you're a doer, an assembler, key coding, hexadecimal cord dumps back in the day. >> Way back when. We didn't even have monitors. I'll tell ya, it was a long time ago. >> Glory days, huh? Back when we didn't have shoes on. You know, technology. But what a change. >> Huge change. >> The variety of backgrounds you have, The LinkedIn, the Charles Schwab, I think was during the growth years. >> And the downturn, so we got both sides. >> Both sides of that coin, but again, the technologies were evolving. >> Yes. >> To serve that kind of high frequency customer base. >> Beth: That's right. >> With databases changing, internet getting faster. >> It has. >> Jeff: More people getting online. >> We were early adopters, I'll tell you. I still will tell people, Charles Schwab is one of the best experiences I have, even though at the end I was part of the layoff process. I was there almost seven years, and I watched, we had crazy times in the internet boom. Going in 98, 99, 2000, I can't even tell you some of the experiences we had. And we weren't a digital native. But we were one of the first companies to put trading online, and to build APIs so our customers could self service, and they could do that all online. We did mobile trading. I remember we had to test our software on like twenty different phone sets. Today, it's actually, so much easier. >> It's only three. Or two. Or one. Depending on how you look at it. >> That's right. We couldn't even test on all the phone sets that were out then. But that was such a great experience, and I still, that Schwab network, is still people I'm in touch with today. And we all sort of sprinkled out to different places. I think, I dunno, there's just something special about that company in terms of what we learned, and what we were able to accomplish. >> You have a fantastic background. Again the waves of innovation you have lived through, been apart of, tackling hard problems, taking it head on. Great ethos, great management discipline. Now more than ever, it seems to be needed, because we're living in an age of massive change. Cause you have the databases are changing, the networks changing, the coding paradigms changing. Dev ops, you've got the role of data. Obviously, mobile clearly is proliferated. And now the business models are evolving. Now you got business model action, technical changes, cultural people changes. All of those theaters are exploding with opportunity, but also challenges. What's your take on that as you look at that world? >> You know, I'm a change junkie, I think. I love when things are changing, when organizations are changing, when companies are coming apart and coming together. So for me, I feel like, I've been again, so fortunate I'm in the perfect place. But, one of the things that I really prided myself on early in my career, is being what I call the bridge, or the, the translator between the different lines of business folks that I work with. Whether it was head of marketing, or somebody in a sales or customer relationship, or service organization, and the technology teams I built and led. And I think I've had a natural curiosity about what makes a business tick, and not so much over indexing on the technology itself. So technology is going to come and go, there's going to be different flavors. But actually, how to really take advantage of that technology, to better engage your customers, which as you said, their needs and their demands are changing, their expectations are so high. They really set the pace now. Who would have though that ten years ago we'd live in an environment where industries and businesses are changing because consumers have sort of set the bar on the way we all want to interact, engage, communicate, buy, pay. So there's this huge impact on organizations, and you know, I have a lot of empathy for large established enterprises that are challenged to make it through this transformation, this change, that somehow, they have to make. And I always try to pay attention on which companies have done it. And I call out Microsoft as an example. I can still remember several years ago, being at a conference. I think it was Jeffrey Moore who was speaking, and he had on one slide... Here's all the companies in technology that have had really large success. Leading up to the internet boom days, there would be a recipe for the four companies that would come together. I think it was Sun, Oracle, and Microsoft. And then he said, and now here's the companies of today. And most young people coming out of college, or getting computer science degrees won't use any of these old technology companies. But Microsoft proved us all wrong, but they did it, focused on people, culture, being willing to say where they screwed up, and where they're not going to focus anymore, and part ways with those parts of their business. And really focus on who are their customers, what are their customer needs. I think there's something to be learned from those changes they made. And I think back to the Tech Whisperer, there's no excuse for an executive today, not to at least understand the fundamentals of technology. So many decisions have to be made around investment, capital, hiring, investment in your people. That without that understanding, you're sort of operating blind. >> And this is the thing that I think I love, and was impressed by that Tech Whisperer article. You know, a play on the Horse Whisperer, the movie. You're kind of whispering in the ears of leaders who won't admit that they're scared. But they're all scared! They're all scared. And so they need to get, maybe it's cognitive dissonance around decision making, or they might not trust their lead. Or they don't know what they're talking about So this certainly is there, I would agree with that. But there's dynamics at play, and I want to get your thoughts on this. I think this plays into the Tech Whisperer. The trend we're seeing is the old days was the engineers are out coding away, hey they're out there coding away, look at them coding away. Now with Cloud they're in the front lines. They're getting closer to the customer, the apps are in charge. They're dictating to the infrastructure what can be done. With data almost every solution can be customized. There's no more general purpose. These are the things we talk about, but this changes the personnel equation. Now you got engineering and product people talking to sales and marketing people, business people. >> And customers. >> They tend not to, they traditionally weren't going well. Now they have to work well, engineers want to work with the customers. This is kind of a new business practice, and now I'm a scared executive. Beth, what do I do? What's your thoughts on that dynamic? >> You know, I'm not sure I would have had insight in that if I hadn't had the oppurtunity to work at this little start up, which we were a digital native. And it was the first time I worked in an environment where we did true extreme programming, pair programming, we had really strong product leads, and engineers. So we didn't have project managers, business analysts, a lot of things that I think enterprise I.T tends to have. Because the folks, historically, at an enterprise, the folks that are specifying the need, the business need, are folks in the lines of business. And they're not product managers, and even product managers, I say in banking for example, they aren't software product managers. And so that change, if you really do want to embrace these new methods and dev ops, and a lot of the automation that's available to engineering and software development organizations today, you really do have to make that change. Otherwise it's just going to be a clumsy version of what you use to do, with a new name on it. The other thing though that I would say, is I don't want to discount for large enterprises is partnerships with start up companies or other tech partners. You don't need to build everything. There's so much great technology out there. You brought up the Cloud. Look at how rich these Cloud stacks are getting. You know, it's not just now, can you provision me some compute, and some storage, and help me connect to the internet. There's some pretty sophisticated capabilities in there around A.I and machine learning, and data management, and analysis. So, I think overtime, we'll see richer and richer Cloud stacks, that enables you know, every company to benefit from the technology and innovation that's going on right now. >> Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon Web Search, has always said whenever I've interviewed him, he always talks publicly now about it is, two pizza teams, and automate the undifferentiated heavy lifting. In tech we all know what that is, the boring, mundane, patching, provisioning, ugh. And deploying more creative research. Okay so, I believe that. I'm a big believer of that philosophy. But it opens up the role, the question of the roles of the people. That lonely DBA, that you once were, I did some DBA work myself. System admins, storage administrator, these were roles, network administrator, the sacred God of the network, they ran everything. They're evolving to be much more coding oriented, software driven changes. >> It's a huge change. And you know, one thing that I think is sad, is I run into folks often that are, I'll just say, technology professionals, just say, you know, we're at large. Who are out of work. You know, who sort of hang their head, they're not valued, or maybe there's some ageism involved, or they get marked as, oh that's old school, they're not going to change. So, I really do believe we're at a point, where there's not enough resources out there. And so how we invest in talent that's available today, and help people through this change, not everybody is going to make it. It starts with you, knowing yourself, and how open-minded you are. Are you willing to learn, are you willing to put some effort forth, and sort of figuring out some of these new operating models. Because that's just essential if you want to be part of the future. And I'll tell you, it's hard, and it's exhausting. So I don't say this lightly, I just think. You know about my career, how many changes and twists and turns their have been. Sometimes you're just like, okay I'm ready, I'm ready to just go hiking. (Beth laughs) >> It can be, there's a lot of institutional baggage, associated with the role you had, I've heard that before. Old guard, old school, we don't do that, you're way too old for that, we need more women so lets get women in. So there's like a big dynamic around that. And I want to get your thoughts on it because you mentioned ageism, and also women in tech has also grown. There's a need for that. So there's more opportunities now than ever. I mean you go to the cyber security job boards, there are more jobs for cyber security experts than any. >> Oh, I'll tell you, yesterday, we held an event at our office, in partnership with some different start ups. Because that's one of the things you do when you're in a corporate venture group, and it was all on the future of authentication. So it was really targeted at an audience of information security professionals and chief information security officers. And it was twenty men and one woman. And I thought, wow, you know I'm use to that from having been a CIO that a lot of the infrastructure roles in particular, like as you were saying, the rack and stack, the storage management, the network folks, just tend to be more male dominant, than I think the product managers, designers, even software engineers to some extent. But here you know, how many times can you go online and see how many openings there are for that type of role. So I personally, am not pursuing that type of role, so I don't know what all the steps would need to be, to get educated, to get certified, but boy is there a need. And that needs not going to go away. As more, if everything is digitized and everything is online. Then security is going to be a constant concern and sort of dynamic space. >> Well, we interview a lot of women in tech, great to have you on, you're a great leader. We also interview a lot of people that are older. I totally believe that there's an ageism issue out there. I've seen it first hand, maybe because I'm over fifty. And also women in tech, there's more coming but not enough. The numbers speak for themselves. There's also an opportunity, if you look at the leveling up. I talked to a person who was a network engineer, kind of the same thing as him, hanging his head down. And I said, do you realize that networking paradigm is very similar to how cyber works. So a lot of the old is coming back. So if you look at what was in the computer science programs in the eighties. It was a systems thinking. The systems thinking is coming back. So I see that as a great opportunity. But also the aperture of the field of computer science is changing. So it's not, there are some areas that frankly, women are better than men at in my opinion. In my opinion, might get some crap for that. But the point, I do believe that. And there are different roles. So I think it's not just, there's so much more here. >> Oh, that's what I try to tell people. It's not just coding, right. There's so many different types of roles. And unfortunately I think we don't market ourselves well. So I encourage everyone out there that knows somebody. (Beth laughs) Who's looking-- >> If someone was provisioned Sun micro-systems, or mini computers, or workstations, probably has a systems background that could be a Cloud administrator or a Cloud architect. Same concepts. So I want to get your thoughts on women in tech since you're here. What's your thoughts on the industry, how's it going, things you advise, other folks, men and women, that they could do differently. Any good signs? What's your thoughts in general? >> Yeah so, first of all, I'm just a big advocate for women in general. Young girls, and, young women, just getting into the work force, and always have been. Have to say again, very fortunate early in my career working for companies like a phone company, and Schwab, we had so many amazing female leaders. And I don't even think we had a program, it was just sort of part of the DNA of the company. And it's really only in the last couple of years I really seen we have a big problem. Whether it's reading about some of the cultures of some of the big tech companies, or even spending more time in the valley. I think there's no one answer, it's multifaceted. It's education, it's families, it's you know, each one of us could make a difference in how we hire, sort of checking in what our unintended biases are, I know at Citi right now, there's a huge program around diversity and inclusion. Gender, and otherwise. And one of the ways I think it's going to be impactful. They've set targets that I know are controversial, but it holds people accountable, to make decisions and invest in developing people, and making sure there's a pipeline of talent that can step up into even bigger roles with a more diverse leadership team. It will take time though, it will take time. >> But mind shares are critical. >> It absolutely is. Self-awareness, community awareness, very much so. >> What can men do differently, it's always about women in tech, but what can we, what can men do? >> I think it's a great question. I would say, women can do this too. I hate when I see a group together, and it's all women working on the women issue. Shame on us, for not inviting men into the organization. And then I think it's similar to the Tech Whisperer. Don't be nervous, don't be worried, just step in. Because, you know, men are fathers, men are leaders, men are colleagues. They're brothers, they're uncles. We have to work on this together. >> I had a great guest, and friend, I was interviewing. And she was amazing, and she said, John, it's not diversity and inclusion, it's inclusion and diversity. It's I-N-D not D-I. First of all, I've never heard of it, what's D-N-I? My point exactly. Inclusion is not just the diversity piece, inclusion first is inclusive in general, diversity is different. So people tend to blend them. >> Yes they do. >> Or even forget the inclusion part. >> Final question, since you're a change junkie, which I love that phrase, I'm kind of one myself. Change junkies are always chasing that next wave, and you love waves. Pat Gelsinger at VMWare, wave junkie, always love talking with him. And he's a great wave spotter, he sees them early. There's a big set of waves coming in now, pretty clear. Cloud has done it's thing. It's only going to change and get bigger, hybrid, private, multi Cloud. Data, AI, twenty year cycle coming. What waves are you most excited about? What's out there? What waves are obvious, what waves aren't, that you see? >> Yeah, oh, that's a tough one. Cause we try to track what those waves are. I think one of the things that I'm seeing is that as we all get, and I don't just mean people, I mean things. Everything is connected, and everything has some kind of smarts, some kind of small CPU senser. There's no way that our existing, sort of network, infrastructure and the way we connect and talk can support all of that. So I think we're going to see some kind of discontinuous change, where new models are going to, are going to absolutely be required cause we'll sort of hit the limit of how much traffic can go over the internet, and how many devices can we manage. How much automation can the people and an enterprise sort of oversee and monitor, and secure and protect. That's the thing that I feel like it's a tsunami about to hit us. And it's going to be one of these perfect storms. And luckily, I think there is innovation going on around 5G and edge computing, and different ways to think about securing the enterprise. That will help. But it couldn't come soon enough. >> And model also meaning not just technical business. >> Absolutely. Machine the machine. Like who's identity is on there that's taken an action on your behalf, or the companies behalf. You know, we see that already with RPA, these software robots. Who's making sure that they're doing what they're suppose to do. And they're so easy to create, now you have thousands of them. In my mind, it's just more software to manage. >> And a great contrary to Carl Eschenbach, former VMware CEO now at Sequoia, he's on the board of UIPath, they're on the front page of Forbes today, talking about bots. >> Yes, yes, yes, I've heard them speak. >> This is an issue, like is there a verification. Is there a fake bots coming. If there's fake news, fake bots are probably going to come too. >> Absolutely they will. >> This is a reality. >> And we're putting them in the hands of non-engineers to build these bots. Which there's good and bad, right. >> Regulation and policy are two different things, and they could work together. This is going to be a seminal issue for our industry. Is understanding the societal impact, tech for good. Shaping the technologies. This is what a Tech Whisperer has to do. You have a tough job ahead of you. >> But I love it. >> Jeff: Beth thank you for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. >> I'm Jeff Furrier for the People First Network here at Sand Hill Road at Mayfield as part of theCUBE and SiliconANGLE's co-creation with Mayfield Fund, thans for watching.

(funky music) >> Announcer: Live from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage it's "theCUBE" covering Vmworld 2019 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners >> John: Hey welcome back everyone its "theCUBE" live coverage here of VMworld 2019. We're in Moscone North in San Francisco, California. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. Our tenth year covering VMworlds. The last show that's still around since "theCUBE" started. EMC World's now a part of Dell Technology World so VMworld was our first show of "theCUBE" in 2010 and we're here with then the Senior Director now the CMO of VMware Robin Matlock. Great to have you. Thanks for coming. 10 years ago we were across the street at the South. The first ever "CUBE", now 10 years later, what a run. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> Robin: Well how 'about the fact that this is number 11 VMworld for me so I think we're on, like, number 16 or so for VMworld so, yeah, we've driving been this ship for a while and it's still going strong. >> John: And, you know, when you came in the studio we did a little preview video and one of the things we talked about and you jumped on was this notion of resiliency around VMware. I want to get into that because the keynote this year I thought really used some of his primetime real estate to highlight Tech for Good and really some of the efforts around that so 1. Shareholder value, you guys have been doing great. Stock prices up. But in this era of, you know, corporate responsibility and accountability, this Tech for Good message is real. You guys have been doing it for a while. It's not new, it's not like you're doing it for fashion, it's the real deal and it was a big part of the keynote. >> Robin: It was. In fact, it was really a highlight for part of the keynote for me personally. I mean, I think when it's in our DNA, and that is consistent with our values, and we've been at that for some time. We have values that are all about, you know, customer and community and that's who we are. We also have very high aspirations that of course we have to be performant. We have to perform well as a business and deliver shareholder value but that isn't enough. You know, I do think that Pat leads this narrative that we as a company have to think about giving back more than we take. And it's not just PowerPoint slides, it's real. We empower our employees. I hope you enjoyed the story about Callum Eade swimming the English Channel all for a cause that he chose. He raised the money, he drove that and VMware just opens up those opportunities to allow our employees to do that so I think, we think it's a really important topic, we tried to give it a lot of air time, and give a way for the attendees to connect with it and see what they could take action against. >> John: And also, you guys are also voted one of the best places to work. Your campus in Palo Alto, beautiful and it is a great place to work. But this is the ethos, but it's still competitive and had Carl Eschenbach recently in our studios in Palo Alto and he made a comment he's like, "You know, I've been at VMware "for many, many years", now he's a VC at Sequoia Capital, and Carl said, "You know, everyone's been "trying to kill VMware. This is going to VMware, "that's going to kill virtuals." The resiliency just around the staying power of the product and technology leadership happens. This year it's containers, the attendees are excited by it, the numbers are up, 20,000 people here. Still evolution on the technology side, still great community. >> Robin: Yeah, I mean I think, you know resiliency is in the fabric of VMware but I think innovation is what is the secret sauce and we know in Silicon Valley you better innovate and keep moving forward or you're going to find yourself kind of, left out and, you know, Pat's been an incredible visionary. He's got a team of leaders that are very confident, strong technological disrupters. I mean some of the big acquisitions that we announced just last Thursday at earnings that we are educating folks here about, the intent to acquire Pivotal, the intent to acquire Carbon Black, you know, further that we'll either do it organically or we will acquire interesting combinations of companies to drive unique value to our customers. So I think there was a whole bunch of that today. >> Dave: We were talking in "theCUBE" earlier, Robin, about how now it's a post-virtual machine world and if we go back to 2009, which was my first VMworld as well, Paul Maritz at the time said we're building this software mainframe. Now, of course, you got promoted and I'm sure killed that mainframe from all marketing but (laughs) so well done but you kind of evolved the software-defined data center vision. But one of the takeaways for me from the keynote was this notion of any workload, any app , which was kind of the vision back then and now in a cloud which the cloud wasn't as prominent then. And so from a marketing standpoint you've really, the vision has been consistent but now with all these acquisitions you're making you're really embracing a much broader vision and your marketing message has to evolve as well. >> Robin: To support that, I think the fact that our vision has been incredibly consistent for many years now, I mean, that's Pat's leadership kind of setting that foundation for the company. My job as a marketer is to help find the way to articulate that in a way that's consumable and people understand. But what's happened over the years is we deliver on that vision 'cause, you know, a vision it's not all perfect, we don't have every piece of it or it's not all optimized. All of these moves year after year are just validating and supporting the delivery of that vision to our customers and I think the big moves this year are no different, whether it's Tanzu for Kubernetes, whether it's the Carbon Black acquisition idea, whether it's Pivotal, these are just steps along a journey that's going to deliver on our vision which is delivering any application on any cloud consumed by any device, all with security intrinsically built in the fabric. >> Dave: Well and the gauntlet that you lay down this year in talking to your practitioner audience was that technologists who master multi-cloud will own the next decade. Okay. That kind of says it all, right? And that is a strong message that you're sending to your buyers, to your practitioners so. >> Robin: Yeah, and I think the people that are right here at VMworld, these are the kinds of technologists that have that opportunity in front of them. That's why this whole notion of make your mark it's like, lean into this opportunity. Betting on VMware, building your career on virtualization has opened up many opportunities. It went from compute to storage to networking. It's now into multi-cloud. These are incredible opportunities and these technologists are the ones that can deliver this value for their enterprises. >> Dave: And there's diversity in the messages, you know, all the major cloud players say, "Well no. Just our cloud." You guys are pushing in a new direction. I mean that's what leaders are supposed to do, right? >> Robin: Our strategy has always been about choice, you know, we've really been advocates of letting customers choose the path that's right for them and we know in this cloud war that we're all a part of that customers they are choosing. Some are leaning into AWS, some are leaning into Azure, some are biased towards IBM. Our job is really to enable them to have a rich, powerful experience without friction, efficiently, and operate those workloads in any of those environments. >> John: Have you seen any demographic shift in your primary audience because obviously the operating side, even with Kubernetes, they love it, containers, a messaging channel that's in and of itself but still containers seems to be that next step function with Kubernetes that VM's brought to computing. But when you bring in the dev and the ops that's where it starts to get magical when the operating's got to meet up with the developers. That's been the theme. cloud-Native. All this enablement's coming in. Has there been a shift in demographics to your audience? >> Robin: Well it is an evolving journey, if you will, and yes but it's still, I think we have a long ways to go. We are largely still have an infrastructure audience here, there's a mobility crowd here, there's a cloud architect crowd here. The new audiences are going to be the platform architects that dev/ops community and we do have shifts in that but I would say that's part of the value as we bring Pivotal into the family, we can now merge these audiences and, I think, do a much formidable job at that. >> John: It's interesting, Telco will have them on later. 5G was a big part of the keynote as well >> Robin: Yeah. >> John: A new opportunity, a new affinity group there. >> Robin: Without a doubt, I mean, the whole Edge and Telco clouds are really opening up new entirely new markets. The Telco, the 5G, we do think that's going to be a very significant wave and is going to create new opportunity for new application types, new fundamental architectures that we can now merge between Telco and Enterprise so we think it's really a rich ground for innovation. >> John: You mentioned Pivotal, I think that's more of they were already in the fold, now they're officially in the fold with Dell Technologies but your other acquisitions, there's a lot of them. You got to kind of bring them into the fold so is there the marketing playbook do you have an off-site meeting and you just give them the playbook? How do you handle all the integrations? 'Cause that's always a big challenge. IT integration, messaging integration, again it helps if they're on the fault line of the value proposition but >> Yeah. >> John: What's your strategy to integrate all these companies? >> Robin: Well, you know, any time you're doing a lot of mergers and acquisitions you definitely have to think very strategically about integration and then sometimes you want to integrate fully, right away and sometimes you want to let an acquired company be stand-alone for a little while. Got to get used to the culture a bit-- >> John: Like Velocloud? >> Robin: Velocloud is kind of independent-- >> John: They've got their own building. >> Robin: within the networking team. AirWatch was held very independent for a couple of years. Some other ones are just tuck-ins. You just bring 'em right into the family, you just merge 'em in, it just depends on the size, the scope, the culture and the strategy. I think we take a very purposeful approach to M&A integration and we don't really have a one-size-fits-all strategy. Depends on the circumstances. >> Dave: So follow up on that because clearly there's an engineering culture here at VMware and take the Carbon Black example for instance you talked about how you guys have sort of pretested it with AppDefense but from your standpoint, how do you think about the architecture of the marketing and the messaging? I think you answered it in part. It was sometimes it makes sense to keep it separate sometimes but when you think about the vision do you look at it and say, "Okay this plugs nicely into the vision "and so here's what I'm going to do?" How integrated is it with the rest of the sort of decision-making process? >> Robin: Well, you know, I would take the position that all these acquisitions are plugging into the vision. They are that's why we're buying them because they are very aligned to our strategy and vision. Now I have the challenge as a marketer to deal with a lot of different brands that are coming into the family. I mean, how and when do I consolidate and kind of unite the brands and that is a journey that we're going to be on. We'll take some time to do that. You don't want to rush things in that regard. I think it's very important that the market sees one VMware, one vision and strategy, you know, if it's delivered in a product and it's through an acquisition as a different brand that's okay, we can work on that over time but as long as we're laying out one strategy and vision to the marketplace and just showing these are evidence of proof points of that journey. >> John: Yeah. I mean, you guys, you're pretty clear. Your strategy is to evaluate, understand where they are in the value chain of what you're trying to do. Unlike others like IBM which brings companies in quickly, makes them IBM, you guys are a little bit different, You'll play with whatever the market will give you. That's pretty much what I hear you're saying. >> Robin: Well for example, Carbon Black, experts in security, you know. I think we want to capitalize on that expertise. We want to protect that expertise. They've already been partnering with AppDefense now for some period of time rather than, you know, it's like which one is >> Right. >> Robin: consuming the other (laughing) so our strategy is let's combine AppDefense with Carbon Black and then start working with Patrick and Carbon Black to merge that into the-- >> Yeah. >> Dave: Organizationally, I think that's, at least what I read >> Yeah. >> Dave: was you can set up essentially a cloud security division, right, that Patrick is going to >> That Patrick is going to run. >> Dave: run, so >> That's right. >> John: Okay so VMworld 2019, what's the update here? Give us some factoids, some of the exciting things happening here. We're in the meadow, there's birds chirping here. This is Moscone North, nice build-out, always good build-outs here. Moscone, we're back in from Vegas but what's going on? Labs, activities-- >> Robin: We've got it >> Give the-- >> Robin: all, John >> Give us the highlights. >> Dave: Klingons >> That's right. >> Robin: First of all you've got two great days of keynotes, right, those are really important highlights. Tomorrow we're going to do some really interesting things, demo, technical, deep dive. Great guest celebrity speakers, right, We're going with the sports theme this year and elite athletes and what they're giving back to the world with Lindsey Vonn and Steve Young. But here for the program we have the Hands-On Labs are on fire. They broke records on Sunday so I know they've been really well-attended and consumed. We have over 600 break-outs, so many it's mind-boggling. We have 230 sponsors in the Solutions Exchange and that's probably a place where you can go not just to get the VMware stuff but get that good exposure and lay of the land of the entire ecosystem. And they're all showcasing their innovation. What's new, what's the latest. So I think those give people a really good quick snapshot in one week, you can pretty much get an overview of the entire industry. >> John: Are there any must-sees in your opinion? >> Robin: (breathing in) Oh-- >> John: Or that people are talking about? >> Robin: I think for sure you got to get into this Kubernetes stuff. If you don't come out of this week of VMworld with a good handle on what is Tanzu, what's Tanzu Mission Control, what are we doing with the Heptio acquisition, what is PKS evolution happening, I think you would be missing something if you don't really grok that. Project Pacific work, Kubernetes in vSphere, tightly integrated, so that's a must-do. I think there's a lot happening in the networking space, right. Pat was pretty bold up there about, you know, what is the opportunity relative to network virtualization and the time is now so I think you've really got to get into that from the data center to the Edge to the cloud. Network transformation's hot. And then of course I think the cloud and I think we're really clear on hybrid-cloud and multi-cloud and how to really think about those environments and how, if you're architecting cloud for your company, what you want to be thinking about, what are we doing across multi-cloud, and, you know, I think all that hybrid-cloud stuff, it's all there. >> Dave: As we move to this, you know, this post-VMworld, VMware world how do you-- >> Robin: Is there a post-VMware world? >> Dave: What role, post-virtual-- >> John: Oh look at that, there we go. (laughing) >> Robin: I don't think there's a post-VMware world. >> Dave: Post-VM. I mean virtual machines. >> Robin: Virtualization. >> John: Are you changing the name to container world? >> Robin: No. (laughing) >> Dave: Right, exactly. So what (laughing) yeah what specifically are you guys doing to sort of educate folks, I mean, obviously you've got a lot of Kubernetes sessions, et cetera but just in terms of helping people sort of transform their skill sets into infrastructures of code, being able to take advantage of Kubernetes, you know, we've seen some things in the industry at events like this where you know, guys learn how to program in Python or, you know, whatever it is >> Right. >> Dave: Are there specific plans to do that? Is that actually happening at the event or? >> Robin: Well that's part of what all this content is about, I mean, you know, 600 break-out sessions aren't about, you know, compute virtualization. You can find those but this is about all these different dimensions, right? Whether it's what is Kubernetes, fundamentals, how you think about that in what kind of environment you're running. And I think that's the spirit of what VMworld is about. It's about hands-on, it's about meet the experts, it's about sessions, it's about the ecosystem, it's about having that all at your disposal in one week. >> You forgot something. >> Oh did I? >> The parties. >> The party? >> Everyone >> Well that's not helping your technical-- >> Everyone >> Aptitude >> Everyone knows VMworld has great parties at night and that's where all the action, you guys work hard/play hard one of the ethos of VMware culture. >> Robin: That's right, that's right. Well, we do work hard/play hard because this is intense, right? These guys are trying to jam as much as they can into four days and so we got to let off a little steam and OneRepublic is on stage on Wednesday night. We're going to have a great time. But I do think it's on the back drop of them here they are just like sponges trying to absorb this information. >> John: My final question is, and you guys brought it up in the keynote, around the tech industry good, bad, and Pat says neutral, it's how you shape the technology. Really a call to action and a strategic imperative to be more proactive in accountability and driving change for good. So I got to ask you about the word trust. I've seen a lot of marketing around companies always try to market around trust. Now more than ever the trust, whether it's fake news, company responsibility to security, which is a big part of what you guys do. How do you see that a marketer and what's the conscience of VMware because trust is certainly a big part of what you guys do. Is that a marketing, going to be a marketing ethos? Is it built into everything? Just curious how you personally feel about the word trust. >> Robin: Yeah, well first of all, I think it's foundational to doing good, healthy business. I think you got to be very careful as a marketer to market trust. I think you need to demonstrate your trustworthiness. You need to be consistent. You need to be credible. You need to be there when the times are tough. You need to be, you know, not always asking for something in return and if you earn trust you don't really have to say it. I believe we can position our validity and our credibility proven, you know, having customers say that we're trustworthy, having customers articulate >> Yeah >> Robin: why they depend on us, I believe that's more effective for our customers and, at the end of the day, probably more authentic. >> John: Yeah, and I think people, yeah that tends to be the track record of people who say it maybe haven't earned it, right, earning it's the better marketing strategy-- Yeah, I think these 20,000 (laughing) people are saying it as they show up here with their time and energy and investment. And I think our customers, you heard from a lot of customers on stage today. Gap, Freddie Mac, Verizon, there'll be more tomorrow. You know, I think there's over 100 customers in these sessions here and they're here advocating because they trust VMware. >> John: Well they run their business on you guys. Dave had a survey hey did, just published it yesterday, the spend is not going down. I mean the cloud impacts your business, you're getting into the cloud so that's pretty obvious but just overall the business is healthy >> Oh very >> John: for VMware (laughing) >> Robin: Very healthy. And you know we do that by really trying to have a balanced approach. It is about shareholder value but it's about tech as a force for good, we're passionate about that and ultimately we put customers at the center of our thinking, of our decisions, of our behaviors, and I think that ultimately keeps rewarding us. >> John: Well, Robin, it's been great to work with you over the past 10 years. Continue on. I think you guys have earned the trust, certainly the proof is in the results, and, you know, it is what it is, and the community votes with their wallet on the product and their participation so congratulations. >> Robin: Well if that's an indicator, I think we're getting a pretty good report card. >> John: Thanks, yeah. (laughing) >> Thanks for inviting me. Love being here, guys. Take care. >> John: Alright, Robin Matlock, CMO of VMware here inside "theCUBE" for our 10th year but also as VMware goes to the next level step function with virtualization to containers, Kubernetes, big theme here, I'm John with Dave Vallente, stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (funky music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Well, welcome back everyone. Live CUBE coverage here in San Francisco, California for VMworld 2019. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, Dave 10 years continues, day one of three days of wall to wall coverage. Mark Lohmeyer, Senior Vice President, Cloud Platform Business Unit and general manager at the VMware, manage cloud for VMware. Great to see you again. >> Great to see you, yeah, thank you. >> So you got, you're managing all the VMware manage cloud on AWS and Dell EMC? >> Right. >> Which was a big part of today's keynote. Obviously a big part of your investments, so you know, you always look at someone's commitment to something. How they spend their resources and their time. So give us an update obviously a lot of resources on the VMware side. >> Mark: Right. >> To make this run, what customers want. Give us an update on what's going on. >> Yeah, yeah I mean so first of all VMware Cloud and AWS, I mean, we're really pleased with the momentum we're seeing for that in the marketplace. So, we compared what it looks like today versus a year ago. And we were talking about it, a year ago and we've increased the number of customers by 4x on the service. We've increased the numbers of VM's on the service by 9x. That's kind of interesting 'cause it shows you that you know, we're adding both new customers as well as existing customers are expanding their investment. So, that's great to see, right? And it's powered by a lot of the compelling Use Cases. You may have heard Pat or others talk about most notably, cloud migrations. You know from an investment perspective which is I think where you sort of started the question you know, significant investment from both VMware as well as AWS the end of the service. You know we say it's jointly engineered and that is absolutely the case. I mean we literally have hundreds of engineers that are optimizing the VMware software to be delivered as a service on top of the AWS infrastructure. >> And that's a lot just to get nuance on this point. Because in the press coverage, I've seen all the press coverage from the Microsoft and the Google. This is different than just Cloud Foundation because you're talking about something completely different. This is jointly engineered. These are specific, unique things. >> Yeah, I mean with the sort of distinction I would sort of articulate there is that in the case of VMware Cloud on AWS, it's a VMware managed, operated, supported, delivered service. Right, so it's our engineers that are pushing the bits into production in AWS. It's our engineers if there's an incident that deal with the you know, with the situation. You know, it's literally a service operated by us. In the case of what we're doing with Azure and GCP, you know first of all from a customer perspective what we heard them telling us is, I think many customers are using Azure, many customers are using GCP and they'd like to have the ability to have that same VMware consistent software stack on those clouds. But the operational model is different. So in those two cases there's a partner called CloudSimple. Who's a VCPP partner and they're taking our standard VMware Cloud Foundation software that customers use on Prem and they are operating and delivering that as a Cloud service on top of those Cloud platforms. >> Just to review so VMware Cloud on AWS and Outposts both your responsibility, there's two way street there? >> Yup. (laughing) >> Which is rare with Amazon usually it's a one way street. My words not yours. But so, and, so you manage both sides of that? Is that correct? >> Mark: Yeah, that's right, that's right. >> So you're happy to sell either one? >> Absolutely, yup. >> Right, and then the Dell EMC version is kind of the on Prem version of Outposts, if you will. Is that a fair characterization? >> Mark: Yeah, yeah, so. >> Without the public cloud. >> Yeah, I mean absolutely, I think one of the interesting things was you know, we've been in market now with the VMware Cloud on AWS for a couple years. And, you know it's going great but one of the things we've heard from customers was, "Hey, we sort of really like this VMware managed cloud model where you're taking all of the heavy lifting of worrying about the Lifecycle of the VMware software. Worrying about the you know upgrades to the hardware, you're taking that all off of our plate. But why can't we have that same cloud delivery model back on Prem?", right and so, that was the impetus for what we originally announced as Project Dimension and now we're launching this week as VMware Cloud on Dell EMC. >> So all the benefits go with the Dell infrastructure hardware? >> So, I got to ask you, so one are the attributes of those those solutions, is they're highly homogenous, right? And, Andy Jassy made a big deal about that same Control Plane, same Data Plane. >> Mark: Right. >> So my question is, help me square the circle with MultiCloud which is highly heterogeneous? (laughing) So, can I have my cake and eat it, too? Can I have this, you know unified vision of the world? This controlled, same compliance, government security, EDIx, management etc, and have all this heterogeneity? How does that? >> Yeah, so I think, I mean to me it starts from what the customer would like to do, right? And what we're seeing from customers is it's increasingly a MultiCloud world, right. That expands spans private cloud, public cloud and Ed. >> Dave: You're smiling when you say that. >> Mark: Yeah, now, now-- >> The chaos is an opportunity for VM. (laughing) >> Yeah, but it's a challenge for customers, right? And so, if you look at how VMware is trying to help there if you say sort of square the circle. I think that first piece is this idea of consistent operations, right. Then we have these management tools that you can use to consistently operate those environments, whether they're based on a VMware based infrastructure or whether they're based on a native cloud infrastructure. Right, so if you look at our cloud health platform for example, it's a great example where that service can help you under, get visibility to your cloud spend across different cloud platforms. Also B service platforms. It can help you reduce that spend over time. So that's sort of what we refer to as consistent operations. Right, which can span any cloud. You know what my team is responsible for is more in the consistent infrastructures base and that's really all about how do we deliver consistent compute network and storage service that spans on Prem, multiple public clouds and Edge. So that's really where we're bringing that same VMware Cloud Foundation stack to all those different environments. >> Mark, I want to get your thoughts on what Pat Gelsinger said on the keynote. He said, "modernize and migrate or migrate and modernize" he also mentioned live migrate as a big feature. >> Mark: Yes, yes. >> On the modernize and migrate and migrate then modernize, they basically pick one and people are doing both. >> Mark: Right, right, right. >> What's he mean by that give us some examples and then what's the impact to the customer? Is it just the behavior of the customer? >> Yeah, I mean, it varies a little bit based on what the customer's trying to accomplish. But you know the one thing I'll say is that, you know, historically it was a little bit tough to have that choice. Right, so you know the sort of the thought was, hey I have to like re-factor and re-platform everything upfront just to be able to get it to the public cloud. And then once it's there I can sort of start to modernize. I think in that can be a multi-year process, right? >> Yeah. >> I think one of the really interesting opportunities that we've opened up for customers with VMware Cloud on AWS is you don't necessarily have to re-factor everything just to be able to get to the public cloud. We could help them migrate to the public cloud very quickly without requiring any changes if they don't want to. And then when they're there, they can modernize at their own pace based on the needs of the business. All right, and so I think having that additional option is actually quite useful for customers that want to get to the cloud quickly and then from there begin to modernize. >> So two main paths with migration and modernize as the easiest one given the managed service. >> Yeah, yeah, and but you know that being said, I think also you see a set of customers that say "Look, sort of digital transformation and modernization is my primary goal." Right, and for them by enabling some of these things like Native Kupernetes as a service in vSphere and in VMware Cloud and AWS by enabling this AI and ML workloads with a Nivida partnership for that classic customers, they can also just start with the modernization piece, right? Directly on the-- >> So the migrate to modernize would be a lift in shift essentially and then modernize? >> Mark: Ah-hm. >> And that's what Amazon wants you to do? But, you're giving customers a choice, is what I'm-- >> Mark: We have, yeah no, I mean look at the end of the day I think both VMware and AWS believe strongly in understanding what customers are looking for and making sure we're delivering that value to them. And I think you know, this is one of the compelling new options that we've enabled for customers, I think with VMworld Cloud on AWS is that we could take a migration project that would have previously taken three years and we could do it in a few months. >> You know Mark I had a chance to talk to Carl Eschenbach two weeks ago before the show. He came in for an interview Sequoia Capital, Carl Eschenbach, former COO of VMware been there for years. He was part of the deal with AWS, graphing that deal. We were talking about the moment and time where your stock price started to move up this October 2016. That's right when the deal was announced. Since then the stock price has been up. For a lot of reasons, we've talked on theCUBE before. The question I have for you is, what have you learned? What surprises you from this relationship? Because one the clarity was easy, meet Cloud Air, no more. This is our cloud strategy. All on AWS and MultiCloud as it develops you certainly have had to clarify with customers. But now that you entered the managed service, what new things have popped up that might not have been on your radar? What did you expect? What are some surprises from this relationship from a customer behavior standpoint? >> Yeah, that's a real interesting question. So, I think you know in the early days we sort of had this concept of "Hey, let's enable the full VMware capabilities on AWS." And we were sort of talking about it as a tech, almost like a technical solution, right? And what, what we could enable. I think sort of what quickly became apparent is hey, sort of behind that technical approach there's actually some really compelling Use Cases here. And I think that, if I think back to two years ago, I don't think we fully anticipated how compelling this cloud migration Use Case would be. I mean I don't think we really realized internally within VMware how hard it was for customers before to do that. And, I think customers didn't realize sort of how much easier and faster and lower cost that we could make it for them with this type of service. So I think that one, although we were maybe talking about it a little bit in the early days. I think it surprised me at least at how sort of broad based the customer interest was in that type of capability. >> Any other broader market interest on things that were surprises or not surprises that are compelling? >> I mean, you know the other thing I wouldn't say it's a surprise per se, but I mean, I think the partnership with AWS has been fantastic. Right, I mean we sort of went into it, I think in the right way between Pat and Andy and focused on doing something meaningful together. The relationship has only gotten sort of deeper and deeper over time. And, one of the interesting things about it is that relationship spans not just engineering and product management and product strategy which is sort of my neck of the woods. But also the marketing organizations, the sales organizations, the support organizations. So it's, it's become I think a very deep partnership. We're able to speak to each other very openly and trying to solve together the, you know the problems that customers are putting in front of us. >> And what's with Outposts, what's the new update on Outposts? >> Yeah, yeah so you know no news on Outposts today obviously but we're working very closely with AWS to enable the VMware Cloud on AWS Outposts model second half of this year. And, the customer interest has just been fantastic, right. And in many ways it's basically the exact same value prop of VMC on AWS in terms-- >> In reverse. >> But, but in reverse and anywhere you want, right, at your door step, right, any Edge, any data center, so. >> I got to ask you, back to the AWS relationship. We were big fans of it always have been. Learned from both sides and believe in it. Having said that, EC2 is the bread and butter for Amazon despite it's hundreds and hundreds of services. That's where their revenue comes from, and compute, your compute business is you know, significant. So my question is, is it a zero some game long-term or when you look at the tam do you see all these other services that you can sell longer term providing you know, the growth engine for your respective companies? Or, does this whole you know, rising tide lift both boats, what are your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I mean it's clearly rising tide lifts both boats. I mean, again I'll, I always bring it back to the customer right, 'cause that's the way I like to view the world and AWS-- >> And you've got some evidence now that's why I'm asking. >> Yeah and I mean what you're seeing is actually I mean if you take some of these customer examples. Let me give you one from the UK. So, Stagecoach. I don't know if you heard about these guys. But they're a major, so they provide transportation services in the UK, and other countries as well. So, they run a network of buses, trains and they're responsible for the transportation of three million commuters every day in the UK. So, they have this really mission critical application that they're building that is basically responsible for scheduling those buses and those trains and scheduling the conductors and the operators. So you can imagine this application is super mission critical for their business, right. And, they chose to run that application on VMware Cloud on AWS and one of the reasons they chose that is because we have a unique capability called stretch clustering. >> Sure. >> Which says "Hey, even if there's an issue in one AZ we can restart that application in a second AZ. So there's a really good reason for the customer to choose it. But now back to your question, right? If you think about the opportunity in that for both VM or in AWS, it's meaningful, right? You know, for us, we're selling the entire VMware Cloud on AWS service to that customer across those two AZ's for mission critical workload that's core to their business. For AWS, they're able to of course not only supply the infrastructure that we run on top of but also as that customer looks to do more interesting things they can attach an additional native AWS services, right? So, you know I think that's a great example where delivering value to the customer and if you focus on that the right things will kind of flow back to the companies that help make that possible. >> Good partnering helps you reduce friction and get to market faster. Thinking about the intense effort that both you know, Pat's described, Andy Jassy described, you've described in terms of that partnership, that deep engineering. Can you do multiples of those or is it that you don't because of the respect for the partnership or is it too intense and it's too resource intensive? How many of these types of partnerships can you actually have? >> Well I mean and I think Pat has said it pretty clearly, right? I mean AWS is our primary preferred partner, right. And, what we're doing with them is very unique, right? And it's something that we want to make sure that we have the right level of investment in and that we do an amazingly good job of, right. And I think they feel the same way. And so having that focus together between the two companies. I think is what, has allowed us to be you know, achieve some of the level of success we've had to date and we expect to do that going forward. >> Mark, final question for you. What's your objective this year in your business unit? What's your focus? What are some of the things that you're working on that people should know about? >> Yeah, so first of all. I had VMware Cloud VD but that's just to wrap that up I think the big thing we're focused on going forward is really this modernization kind of piece of the story. How do we enable Native Kupernetes in the service? How do we enable ML and AI workloads in this service? How do we do a better job of connecting to all of the AWS services? So, you're going to see a big kind of focus, there. Beyond VMware Cloud AWS, I mean we're really excited about bringing this VMC model back on Prem both with Dell and on top of AWS Outposts. I mean the customer interest has been, you know fantastic, right? And, you think about all the reasons that customers want to be able to run their applications, you know on Prem, data locality, latency, compliance, all sorts of really good reasons. We think that those services have really hit a sweet spot of that market. >> IT as a managed service, what an interesting idea, don't you think? (laughing) >> Mark: Yeah. >> Whole nother level same game, whole new ball game, right? >> Absolutely! >> Mark, thanks for sharing your insight. Congratulations on your success and we'll be following it. VMware Manage Solutions AWS certainly a big hit. Changed the game for the company and now they're bringing Dell EMC among other potential business model opportunities for customers. As Cloud 2.0 comes as theCUBE's coverage. Live at VMworld 2019, be right back with more from San Francisco after this short break. (bright music)

>> From the Silicon Angle Media office in Boston Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host, Dave Vellante. (upbeat music) >> Hello everybody, this is Dave Vallante with Stu Miniman and we're going to take a look back at ten years of theCUBE at VMworld and look forward to see what's coming next. So, as I say, this is theCUBE's 10th year at VMworld, that's VMworld, of course 2019. And Stu, if you think about the VMware of 2010, when we first started, it's a dramatically different VMware today. Let's look back at 2010. Paul Maritz was running VMware, he set forth the vision of the software mainframe last decade, well, what does that mean, software mainframe? Highly integrated hardware and software that can run any workload, any application. That is the gauntlet that Tucci and Maritz laid down. A lot of people were skeptical. Fast forward 10 years, they've actually achieved that, I mean, essentially, it is the standard operating system, if you will, in the data center, but there's a lot more to the story. But you remember, at the time, Stu, it was a very complex environment. When something went wrong, you needed guys with lab coats to come in a figure out, you know, what was going on, the I/O blender problem, storage was a real bottleneck. So let's talk about that. >> Yeah, Dave, so much. First of all, hard to believe, 10 years, you know, think back to 2010, it was my first time being at VMworld, even though I started working with VMware back in 2002 when it was like, you know, 100, 150 person company. Remember when vMotion first launched. But that first show that we went to, Dave, was in San Francisco, and most people didn't know theCUBE, heck, we were still figuring out exactly what theCUBE will be, and we brought in a bunch of our friends that were doing the CloudCamps in Silicon Valley, and we were talking about cloud. And there was this gap that we saw between, as you said, the challenges we were solving with VMware, which was fixing infrastructure, storage and networking had been broken, and how were we going to make sure that that worked in a virtual environment even better? But there were the early thought leaders that were talking about that future of cloud computing, which, today in 2019, looks like we had a good prediction. And, of course, where VMware is today, we're talking all about cloud. So, so many different eras and pieces and research that we did, you know, hundreds and hundreds of interviews that we've done at that show, it's definitely been one of our flagship shows and one of our favorite for guests and ecosystems and so much that we got to dig into at that event. >> So Tod Nielsen, who was the President and probably COO at the time, talked about the ecosystem. For every dollar spent on a VMware license, $15 was spent on the ecosystem. VMware was a very, even though they were owned by EMC, they were very, sort of, neutral to the ecosystem. You had what we called the storage cartel. It was certainly EMC, you know, but NetApp was right there, IBM, HP, you know, Dell had purchased EqualLogic, HDS was kind of there as well. These companies were the first to get the APIs, you remember, the VASA VAAI. So, we pushed VMware at the time, saying, "Look, you guys got a storage problem." And they said, "Well, we don't have a lot of resources, "we're going to let the ecosystem solve the problem, "here's an API, you guys figure it out." Which they largely did, but it took a long time. The other big thing you had in that 2010 timeframe was storage consolidation. You had the bidding war between Dell and HP, which, ultimately, HP, under Donatelli's leadership, won that bidding war and acquired 3PAR >> Bought 3PAR >> for 2.4, 2.5 billion, it forced Dell to buy Compellent. Subsequently, Isilon was acquired, Data Domain was acquired by EMC. So you had this consolidation of the early 2000s storage startups and then, still, storage was a major problem back then. But the big sea change was, two things happened in 2012. Pat Gelsinger took over as CEO, and VMware acquired Nicira, beat Cisco to the punch. Why did that change everything? >> Yeah, Dave, we talked a lot about storage, and how, you know, the ecosystem was changing this. Nicira, we knew it was a big deal. When I, you know, I talked to my friends that were deep in networking and I talked with Nicira and was majorly impressed with what they were doing. But this heterogeneous, and what now is the multi-cloud environment, networking needs to play a critical role. You see, you know, Cisco has clearly targeted that environment and Nicira had some really smart people and some really fundamental technology underneath that would allow networking to go just beyond the virtual machine where it was before, the vSwitch. So, you know, that expansion, and actually, it took a little while for, you know, the Nicira acquisition to run into NSX and that product to gain maturity, and to gain adoption, but as Pat Gelsinger has said more recently, it is one of the key drivers for VMware, getting them beyond just the hypervisor itself. So, so much is happening, I mean, Dave, I look at the swings as, you know, you said, VMware didn't have enough resources, they were going to let the ecosystem do it. In the early days, it was, I chose a server provider, and, oh yeah, VMware kind of plays in it. So VMware really grew how much control and how much power they had in buying decisions, and we're going through more of that change now, as to, as they're partnering we're going to talk about AWS and Microsoft and Google as those pieces. And Pat driving that ship. The analogy we gave is, could Pat do for VMware what Intel had done for a long time, which is, you have a big ecosystem, and you slowly start eating away at some of that other functionality without alienating that ecosystem. And to Pat's credit, it's actually something that he's done quite well. There's been some ebbs and flows, there's pushback in the community. Those that remember things like the "vTax," when they rolled that out. You know, there's certain features that the rolled into the hypervisor that have had parts of the ecosystem gripe a little bit, but for the most part, VMware is still playing well with the ecosystem, even though, after the Dell acquisition of EMC, you know, we'll talk about this some more, that relationship between Dell and VMware is tighter than it ever was in the EMC days. >> So that led to the Software-Defined Data Center, which was the big, sort of, vision. VMware wanted to do to storage and networking what it had done to compute. And this started to set up the tension between with VMware and Cisco, which, you know, lives on today. The other big mega trend, of course, was flash storage, which was coming into play. In many ways, that whole API gymnastics was a Band-Aid. But the other big piece if it is Pat Gelsinger was much more willing to integrate, you know, some of the EMC technologies, and now Dell technologies, into the VMware sort of stack. >> Right, so Dave, you talked about all of those APIs, Vvols was a huge multi-year initiative that VMware worked on and all of the big storage players were talking about how that would allow them to deeply integrate and make it virtualization-aware storage your so tense we come out on their own and try to do that. But if you look at it, VVols was also what enabled VMware to do vSAN, and that is a little bit of how they can try to erode in some of the storage piece, because vSAN today has the most customers in the hyperconverged infrastructure space, and is keeping to grow, but they still have those storage partnerships. It didn't eliminate it, but it definitely adds some tension. >> Well it is important, because under EMC's ownership it was sort of a let 1,000 flowers bloom sort of strategy, and today you see Jeff Clarke coming in and consolidating the portfolios, saying, "Look, let's let VMware go hard with vSAN." So you're seeing a different type of governance structure, we'll talk about that. 2013 was a big year. That's the year they brought in Sanjay Poonen, they did the AirWatch acquisition, they took on what the industry called VDI, what VMware called EUC, End-User Computing. Citrix was the dominant player in that space, VMware was fumbling, frankly. Sanjay Poonen came in, the AirWatch acquisition, now, VMware is a leader in that space, so that was big. The other big thing in 2013 was, you know, the famous comment by Carl Eschenbach about, you know, if we lose to the book seller, we'll all lose. VMware came out with it's cloud strategy, vCloud Air. I was there with the Wall Street analyst that day listening to Pat explain that and we were talking afterwards to a number of the Wall Street analysts saying, "This really doesn't make a lot of sense." And then they sort of retreated on that, saying that it was going to be an accelerant, and it just was basically a failed cloud strategy. >> And Dave, that 2013 is also when they spun out Cloud Foundry and founded Pivital. So, you know, this is where they took some of the pieces from EMC, the Greenplum, and they took some of the pieces from VMware, Spring and the Cloud Foundation, and put those together. As we speak right now, there was just an SEC Filing that VMware might suck them back in. Where I look at that, back in 2013, there was a huge gap between what VMware was doing on the infrastructure side and what Cloud Foundry was doing on the application modernization standpoint, they had bought the Pivotal Labs piece to help people understand new programming models and everything along those lines. Today, in 2019, if you look at where VMware is going, the changes happening in containerization, the changes happening from the application down, they need to come together. The Achilles heel that I have seen from VMware for a long time is that VMware doesn't have enough a tie to or help build the applications. Microsoft owns the applications, Oracle owns the applications. You know, there are all the ISVs that own the applications, and Pivotal, if they bring that back into VMware it can help, but it made sense at the time to kind of spin that out because it wasn't synergies between them. >> It was what I called at the time a bunch of misfit toys. And so it was largely David Goulden's engineering of what they called The Federation. And now you're seeing some more engineering, financial engineering, of having VMware essentially buy another, you know, Dell Silver Lake asset, which, you know, drove the stock price up 77% in a day that the Dow dropped 800 points. So I guess that works, kind of funny money. The other big trend sort of in that mid-part of this decade, hyperconverged, you know, really hit. Nutanix, who was at one point a strong partner of both VMware and Dell, was sort of hitting its groove swing. Fast forward to 2019, different situation, Nutanix really doesn't have a presence there. You know, people are looking at going beyond hyperconverged. So there's sort of the VMware ecosystem, sort of friendly posture has changed, they point fingers at each other. VMware says, "Well, it's Nutanix's fault." Nutanix will say it's VMware's fault. >> Right, so Dave, I pointed out, the Achilles heel for VMware might be that they don't have the closest tie to the application, but their greatest strength is, really, they are really the data center operating system, if you will. When we wrote out our research on Server SAN was before vSAN had gotten launched. It was where Nutanix, Scale Computing, SimpliVity, you know, Pivot3, and a few others were early in that space, but we stated in our research, if Microsoft and VMware get serious about that space, they can dominate. And we've seen, VMware came in strong, they do work with their partnerships. Of course, Dell, with the VxRail is their largest solution, but all of the other server providers, you know, have offerings and can put those together. And Microsoft, just last year, they kind of rebranded some of the Azure Stack as HCI and they're going strong in that space. So, absolutely, you know, strong presence in the data center platform, and that's what they're extending into their hybrid and multi-cloud offering, the VMware Cloud Solutions. >> So I want to get to some of the trends today, but just real quick, let's go through some of this. So 2015 was the big announcement in the fall where Dell was acquiring EMC, so we entered, really, the Dell era of VMware ownership in 2016. And the other piece that happened, really 2016 in the fall, but it went GA 2017, was the announcement AWS and VMware as the preferred partnership. Yes, AWS had a partnership with IBM, they've subsequently >> VMware had a partnership >> Yeah, sorry, VMware has a partnership with IBM for their cloud, subsequently VMware has done deals with Google and Microsoft, so there's, we now have entered the multi-cloud hybrid world. VMware capitulated on cloud, smart move, cleaned up its cloud strategy, cleaned that AirWatch mess. AWS also capitulated on hybrid. It's a term that they would never use, they don't use it necessarily a lot today, but they recognize that On Prem is a viable portion of the marketplace. And so now we've entered this new era of cloud, hybrid cloud, containers is the other big trend. People said, "Containers are going to really hurt VMware." You know, the jury's still out on that, VMware sort of pushes back on that. >> And Dave, just to put a point on that, you know, everybody, including us, spent a lot of time looking at this VMware Cloud on AWS partnership, and what does it mean, especially, to the parent, you know, Dell? How do they make that environment? And you've pointed out, Dave, that while VMware gets in those environments and gives themselves a very strong cloud strategy, AWS is the key partner, but of course, as you said, Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud, and all the server providers, we have a number of them including CenturyLink and Rackspace that they're partnering with, but we have to wait a little while before Amazon, when they announced their outpost solutions, VMware is a critical software piece, and you've got two flavors of the hardware. You can run the full AWS Stack, just like what they're running in their data center, but the alternative, of course, is VMware software running on Dell hardware. And we think that if VMware hadn't come in with a strong position with Amazon and their 600,000 customers, we're not sure that Amazon would have said, "Oh yeah, hey, you can run that same software stack "that you're running, but run some different hardware." So that's a good place for Dell to get in the environment, it helps kind of close out that story of VMware, Dell, and AWS and how the pieces fit together. >> Yeah, well so, by the way, earlier this week I privately mentioned to a Dell executive that one of the things I thought they should do was fold Pivotal into VMware. By the way, I think they should go further. I think they should look at RSA and Dell Boomi and SecureWorks, make VMware the mothership of software, and then really tie in Dell's hardware to VMware. That seems to me, Stu, the direction that they're going to try to gain an advantage on the balance of the ecosystem. I think VMware now is in a position of strength with, what, 5 or 600,000 customers. It feels like it's less ecosystem friendly than it used to be. >> Yeah, Dave, there's no doubt about it. HPE and IBM, who were two of the main companies that helped with VMware's ascendancy, do a lot of other things beyond VMware. Of course, IBM bought Red Hat, it is a key counterbalance to what VMware is doing in the multi-cloud. And Dave, to your point, absolutely, if you look at Dell's cloud strategy, they're number one offering is VMware, VMware cloud on Dell. Dell as the project dimension piece. All of these pieces do line up. I'll say, some of those pieces, absolutely, I would say, make sense to kind of pull in and shell together. I know one of the reasons they keep the security pieces at arm's length is just, you know, when something goes wrong in the security space, and it's not of the question of if, it's a question of when, they do have that arm's length to be able to keep that out and be able to remediate a little bit when something happens. >> So let's look at some of the things that we're following today. I think one of the big ones is, how will containers effect customer spending on VMware? We know people are concerned about the vTax. We also know that they're concerned about lock-in. And so, containers are this major force. Can VMware make containers a tailwind, or is it a headwind for them? >> So you look at all the acquisitions that they've made lately, Dave, CloudHealth is, from a management standpoint, in the public cloud. Heptio and Bitnami, targeting that cloud native space. Pair that with Cloud Foundry and you see, VMware and Pivotal together trying to go all-in on Kubernetes. So those 600,000 customers, VMware wants to be the group that educates you on containerization, Kubernetes, you know, how to build these new environments. For, you know, a lot of customers, it's attractive for them to just stay. "I have a relationship, "I have an enterprise licensing agreement, "I'm going to stay along with that." The question I would have is, if I want to do something in a modern way, is VMware really the best partner to choose from? Do they have the cost structure? A lot of these environments set up, you know, it's open source base, or I can work with my public cloud providers there, so why would I partner with VMware? Sure, they have a lot of smart people and they have expertise and we have a relationship, but what differentiates VMware, and is it worth paying for that licensing that they have, or will I look at alternatives? But as VMware grows their hybrid and multi-cloud deployments they absolutely are on the short list of, you know, strategic partners for most customers. >> The other big thing that we're watching is multi-cloud. I have said over and over that multi-cloud has largely been a symptom of multi-vendor. It's not necessarily, to date anyway, been a strategy of customers. Having said that, issues around security, governance, compliance have forced organizations and boards to say, "You know what, we need IT more involved, "let's make multi-cloud part of our strategy, "not only for governance and compliance "and making sure it adheres to the corporate edicts, "but also to put the right workload on the right cloud." So having some kind of strategy there is important. Who are the players there? Obviously VMware, I would say, right now, is the favorite because it's coming from a position of strength in the data center. Microsoft with it's software state, Cisco coming at it from a standpoint of network strength. Google, with Anthos, that announcement earlier this year, and, of course, Red Hat with IBM. Who's the company that I didn't mention in that list? >> Well, of course, you can't talk about cloud, Dave, without talking about AWS. So, as you stated before, they don't really want to talk about hybrid, hey, come on, multi-cloud, why would you do this? But any customer that has a multi-cloud environment, they've got AWS. And the VMware-AWS partnership is really interesting to watch. It will be, you know, where will Amazon grow in this environment as they find their customers are using multiple solutions? Amazon has lots of offerings to allow you leverage Kubernetes, but, for the most part, the messaging is still, "We are the best place for you, "if you do everything on us, "you're going to get better pricing "and all of these environments." But as you've said, Dave, we never get down to that homogeneous, you know, one vendor solution. It tends to be, you know, IT has always been this heterogeneous mess and you have different groups that purchase different things for different reasons, and we have not seen, yet, public cloud solving that for a lot of customers. If anything we often have many more silos in the clouds than we had in the data center before. >> Okay. Another big story that we're following, big trend, is the battle for networking. NSX, the software networking component, and then Cisco, who's got a combination of, obviously, hardware and software with ACI. You know, Stu, I got to say, Cisco a very impressive company. You know, 60+% market share, being able to hold that share for a long time. I've seen a lot of companies try to go up against Cisco. You know, the industry's littered with failures. It feels, however, like NSX is a disruptive force that's very hard for Cisco to deal with in a number of dimensions. We talked about multi-cloud, but networking in general. Cisco's still a major player, still, you know, owns the hardware infrastructure, obviously layering in its own software-defined strategy. But that seems to be a source of tension between the two companies. What's the customer perspective? >> Yeah, so first of all, Dave, Cisco, from a hardware perspective, is still going strong. There are some big competitors. Arista has been doing quite well into getting in, especially, a high performance, high speed environments, you know, Jayshree Ullal and that team, you know, very impressive public company that's doing quite well. >> Service providers that do really well there. >> Absolutely, but, absolutely, software is eating the world and it is impacting networking. Even when you look at Cisco's overall strategy, it is in the future. Cisco is not a networking company, they are a software company. The whole DevNet, you know, group that they have there is helping customers modernize, what we were talking about with Pivotal. Cisco is going there and helping customers create those new environments. But from a customer standpoint, they want simplicity. If my VMware is a big piece of my environment, I've probably started using NSX, NSX-T, some of these environments. As I go to my service providers, as I go to multi-cloud, that NSX piece inside my VMware cloud foundation starts to grow. I remember, Dave, a few years back, you know, Pat Gelsinger got up on a stage and was like, "This is the biggest collection of network administrators that we've ever seen!" And everybody's looking around and they're like, "Where? "We're virtualization people. "Oh, wait, just because we've got vNICs and vSwitches "and things like that." It still is a gap between kind of a hardcore networking people and the software state. But just like we see on storage, Dave, it's not like vSAN, despite it's thousands and thousands of customers, it is not the dominant player in storage. It's a big player, it's a great revenue stream, and it is expanding VMware beyond their core vSphere solutions. >> Back to Cisco real quickly. One of the things I'm very impressed with Cisco is the way in which they've developed infrastructures. Code with the DevNet group, how CCIEs are learning Python, and that's a very powerful sort of trend to watch. The other thing we're watching is VMware-AWS. How will it affect spending, you know, near-term, mid-term, long-term? Clearly it's been a momentum, you know, tailwind, for VMware today, but the questions remains, long-term, where will customers place their bets? Where will the spending be? We know that cloud is growing dramatically faster than On Prem, but it appears, at least in the near- to mid-term, for one, two, maybe three more cycles, maybe indefinitely, that the VMware-AWS relationship has been a real positive for VMware. >> Yeah, Dave, I think you stated it really well. When I talked to customers, they were a bit frozen a couple of years ago. "Ah, I know I need to do more in cloud, "but I have this environment, what do I do? "Do I stay with VMware, do I have to make a big change." And what VMware did, is they really opened things up and said, "Look, no, you can embrace cloud, and we're there for you. "We will be there to help be that bridge to the future, "if you will, so take your VMware environment, "do VMware cloud in lots of places, "and we will enable that." What we know today, the stat that we hear all the time, the old 80/20 we used to talk about was 80% keeping the lights on, now the 80% we hear about is, there's only 20% of workloads that are in public cloud today. It doesn't mean that that other 80% is going to flip overnight, but if you look over the next five to ten years, it could be a flip from 80/20 to 20/80. And as that shift happens, how much of that estate will stay under VMware licenses? Because the day after AWS made the announcement of VMware cloud on AWS, they offered some migration services. So if you just want to go on natively on the public cloud, you can do that. And Microsoft, Google, everybody has migration services, so use VMware for what I need to, but I might go more native cloud for some of those other environments. So we know it is going to continue to be a mix. Multi-cloud is what customers are doing today, and multi- and hybrid-cloud is what customers will be doing five years from now. >> The other big question we're watching is Outposts. Will VMware and Outposts get a larger share of wallet as a result of that partnership at the expense of other vendors? And so, remains to be seen, Outposts grabbed a lot of attention, that whole notion of same control plane, same hardware, same software, same data plane On Prem as in the Data Center, kind of like Oracle's same-same approach, but it's seemingly a logical one. Others are responding. Your thoughts on whether or not these two companies will dominate or the industry will respond or an equilibrium. >> Right, so first of all, right, that full same-same full stack has been something we've been talking about now, feels like for 10 years, Dave, with Oracle, IBM had a strategy on that, and you see that, but one of the things with VMware has strong strength. What they have over two decades of experiences on is making sure that I can have a software stack that can actually live in heterogeneous environments. So in the future, if we talk about if Kubernetes allows me to live in a multi-cloud environment, VMware might be able to give me some flexibility so that I can move from one hardware stack to another as I move from data centers to service providers to public clouds. So, absolutely, you know, one to watch. And VMware is smart. Amazon might be their number one partner, but they're lining up everywhere. When you see Sanjay Poonen up on stage with Thomas Kurian at Google Cloud talking about how Anthos in your data center very much requires VMware. You see Sachi Nodella up on stage talking about these kind of VMware partnerships. VMware is going to make sure that they live in all of these environments, just like they lived on all of the servers in the data center in the past. >> The other last two pieces that I want to touch on, and they're related is, as a result of Dell's ownership of VMware, are customers going to spend more with Dell? And it's clear that Dell is architecting a very tight relationship. You can see, first of all, Michael Dell putting Jeff Clarke in charge of everything Dell was brilliant, because, in a way, you know, Pat was kind of elevated as this superstar. And Michael Dell is the founder, and he's the leader of the company. So basically what he's created is this team of rivals. Now, you know, Jeff and Pat, they've worked together for decades, but very interesting. We saw them up on stage together, you know, last year, well I guess at Dell Technologies World, it was kind of awkward, but so, I love it. I love that tension of, It's very clear to me that Dell wants to integrate more tightly with VMware. It's the clear strategy, and they don't really care at this point if it's at the expense of the ecosystem. Let the ecosystem figure it out themselves. So that's one thing we're watching. Related to that is long-term, are customers going to spend more of their VMware dollars in the public cloud? Come back to Dell for a second. To me, AWS is by far the number one competitor of Dell, you know, that shift to the cloud. Clearly they've got other competitors, you know, NetApp, Huawei, you know, on and on and on, but AWS is the big one. How will cloud spending effect both Dell and AWS long-term? The numbers right now suggest that cloud's going to keep growing, $35, $40 billion run-rate company growing at 40% a year, whereas On Prem stuff's growing, you know, at best, single digits. So that trend really does favor the cloud guys. I talked to a Gartner analyst who tracks all this stuff. I said, "Can AWS continue to grow? It's so big." He said, "There's no reason, they can't stop. "The market's enormous." I tend to agree, what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, first of all, on the AWS, absolutely, I agree, Dave. They are still, if you look at the overall IT spend, AWS is still a small piece. They have, that lever that they have and the influence they have on the marketplace greatly outweighs the, you know, $30, $31 billion that they're at today, and absolutely they can keep growing. The one point, I think, what we've seen, the best success that Dell is having, it is the Dell and VMware really coming together, product development, go to market, the field is tightly, tightly, tightly alligned. The VxRail was the first real big push, and if they can do the same thing with the vCloud foundation, you know, VMware cloud on Dell hardware, that could be a real tailwind for Dell to try to grow faster as an infrastructure company, to grow more like the software companies or even the cloud companies will. Because we know, when we've run the numbers, Dave, private cloud is going to get a lot of dollars, even as public cloud continues its growth. >> I think the answer comes down to a couple things. Because right now we know that 80% of the spend and stall base is On Prem, 20% in the cloud. We're entering now the cloud 2.0, which introduces hybrid-cloud, On Prem, you know, connecting to clouds, multi-cloud, Kubernetes. So what it comes down to, to me Stu, is to what degree can Dell, VMware, and the ecosystem create that cloud experience in a hybrid world, number one? And number two, how will they be able to compete from a cost-structure standpoint? Dell's cost-structure is better than anybody else's in the On Prem world. I would argue that AWS's cost-structure is better, you know, relative to Dell, but remains to be seen. But really those two things, the cloud experience and the cost-structure, can they hold on, and how long can they hold on to that 80%? >> All right, so Dave here's the question I have for you. What are we talking about when we're talking about Dell plus VMware and even add in Pivotal? It's primarily hardware plus software. Who's the biggest in that multi-cloud space? It's IBM plus Red Hat, which you've stated emphatically, "This is a services play, and IBM has, you know, "just got, you know, services in their DNA, "and that could help supercharge where Red Hat's going "and the modernization." So is that a danger for Dell? If they bring in Pivotal, do they need to really ramp up that services? How do they do that? >> Yeah, I don't think it's a zero sum game, but I also don't think there's, it's five winners. I think that the leader, VMware right now would be my favorite, I think it's going to do very well. I think Red Hat has got, you know, a lot of good market momentum, I think they've got a captive install base, you know, with IBM and its large outsourcing business, and I think they can do pretty well, and I think number three could do okay. I think the other guys struggle. But it's so early, right now, in the hybrid-cloud world and the multi-cloud world, that if I were any one of those five I'd be going hard after it. We know Google's got the dollars, we know Microsoft has the software state, so I can see Microsoft actually doing quite well in that business, and could emerge as the, maybe they're not a long-shot right now, but they could be a, you know, three to one, four to one leader that comes out as the favorite. So, all right, we got to go. Stu, thanks very much for your insights. And thank you for watching and listening. We will be at VMworld 2019. Three days of coverage on theCUBE. Thanks for watching everybody, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live, from Miami Beach, Florida it's theCUBE covering UiPathForward Americas. Brought to you by UiPath. >> Welcome back to Miami everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante with my cohost Stu Miniman. We got all the action going on behind us. We are seeing the ascendancy of Robotic Process Automation, software robots. one of the leader's in that industry, one of the innovators, Daniel Dines is here, he's the founder and CEO of UiPath. Hot off the keynote, Daniel, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Daniel: Thank you for inviting me. >> Dave: You're very welcome, so, the great setup here, the Fontainebleau in Miami's an awesome venue for a conference this size; about 1500 people. In your keynote, you talked about your vision and we want to get into that but, go back to why you started UiPath. >> Daniel: I started UiPath to have joy at work, to do what I like, and to build something big. >> Dave: And you're a Developer, right? I mean you code-- >> Daniel: I am a Software Engineer. >> Dave: I mean, I can tell by the way you're dressed. (laughter) Developer CEO. >> Daniel: Yeah. >> Dave: Yeah, okay, so but you have a vision. You talked about a robot for every person. You mentioned Bill Gates, the PC for every person. I said a chicken for every pot, Harry Truman. What is that vision? Tell us about it. >> Daniel: Well, in our old day they work, we do a lot of menial stuff, repetitive, boring stuff. It's-- that is not human-- it's not human-like. Why not having this robot that we can talk to, we can command and just do the boring stuff for us? I think it's no-brainer. >> Dave: Right. >> Daniel: We just didn't think it's possible. We showed with our technology this is possible, actually. This is an angle of automation that people didn't think it was possible before. >> Dave: Well, so I neglected to congratulate you on your early success, I mean, you said one of your tenants is you're humble. So you got a lot of work to do, we understand that. But you've raised over $400 million to date, you just had a giant raise, we had Carl Eschenbach on in our Palo Alto studios. He was-- he was one of the guys in the round. So that's confirmation that this is a big market, we've pegged it at around a billion dollars today, 10x growth by 2023, so very impressive growth potential. What's driving that growth? >> Daniel: It's all from the customers. When they see it working, it's a "wow," it's different, they won't go back to the same way of delivering work. It's changing how people really work. You see people becoming joyful when we show them the robot, and they say, "I don't need to do this stuff anymore? Wow." Imagine people doing the same reports every day, going through hundreds of page and clicking the same-- this is, this is nirvana. >> Dave: And we saw customers, UnitedHealth was on stage today, Mr. Yamamoto has a thousand robots, Wells Fargo's up there, you had some partners. So you're doing that hard integration work as well. Stu, you noted that the global presence of this company was impressing you. You're thoughts on that. >> Stu: Yeah, absolutely, I mean first of all, company started in Romania, we had-- you know you don't see too many American keynotes where there's a video up there in a foreign language. It's Japanese with English subtitles, you've got customers already starting with a global footprint. What's it like being a founder in a start-up from Europe playing in a global marketplace? >> Daniel: Well, actually it help us to become-- we've been born global. We are one of the first start-ups born global from day one. We've been this company, with Japanese talent, Indian talent, Romanian talent, American talent. And being from this remote part of Europe help us... think big, because really are-- we cannot build this start-up only with Romanians. That's clear, we don't have the pool of talent. So why not just go in global, get the best talent we can and spread global? And we are one of the few companies in the world that has their revenue split equally across the three big continents. >> Stu: Yeah, Daniel, the other thing that struck me-- you're growing the company very fast. We talked about the money, but you said you're going to have over 4,000 employees by 2019. You know, I play a lot in the open source world, it's often small-team, you've got to go marketplace, how come you need so many employees for a software company? Maybe explain a little bit that relationship with a customer, how much you, you're technical people, what they need to do to interact and help them to grow these; is it verticals, you know, what's that dynamic? >> Daniel: Well, first of all, we hire more than 1,000 people in last year alone. We started from 200 and now we are 1,400. We need all these people because this technology is at the intersection of software and services. We need to help our customers scale, and we need to inject a lot of customer success people making our customer successful. My, my way of building a company is customer first. We want to offer this boutique type of approach to our customers, and they are happy. And they-- and we build this trust relationship. This is why we need so many-- We have 2,000 customers. Next year, we have 5,000 customers. We need our people to help them grow. >> Dave: We're going to have Craig Le Clair on a little later. He's the Vice President of Forrester Research. They've done a deep dive in this marketplace in the last couple years now. UiPath has jumped from number three to number one in the Forrester wave, and when you look at that report, really, the feature and function analysis shows you guys lead in a number of places. In listening to your keynote, I discerned several things that I wonder if you could explain for our audience. It sounds like computer vision is a key linchpin to your architecture, and there seems to be an orchestrator and then maybe a studio to enable simple low code, or even no code automations to be developed. Can you describe, so a layperson-- your architecture, and why you've been able to jump into the lead. >> Daniel: Well, we've done everything wrong as a start-up. We spent like seven years building a computer vision technology that-- it was of little use, back then. We did it just because we liked it. And now, this is our powerful weapon, because, what's important for this robot is to be accurate, and to be able to work in any situations. Why our technology works better, is that we do way better the extra mile of automation. 80% of the job anyone can do, even with free software. But the last 20% is where the real issues is. And with the last 20% there is no automation. And we are doing way faster. So all our signal sources-- the fact that we've done something against Lean, against every principal in start-up, we had the lecture in building so many years technology, without even envisioning the use. But when we found the market, and it was a great product market, then we scale the company. >> Dave: There are a couple key statistics that I want to bring up and get your thoughts on. We know that there are now more jobs than there are people to fill those jobs. We also know that the productivity hasn't been increasing, so your vision is to really close that gap through RPA and automation. So your narrative is really that you're not replacing humans, you're augmenting humans, but at the same time, there's got to be some training involved. You guys are making a huge commitment in training. You're going to train a million people, that's the goal, within three years. We have Tom Clancy on next. We're going to ask him how he's going to do that. But talk about that skills gap and how you're embracing re-training. >> Daniel: Well, we realize that at some point that change management, it's kind of the key-- it's the cornerstone of delivering this technology. Because there is inertia, there is fear, and-- if we bring, at the same time, automation and training, it solves this-- that solve this issue. And we have to think big; this is why: one million is a big goal, but we will achieve it because we-- I love my way to think big. I was thinking small for so many years, and thinking big it's like, it's like liberty. You sat down and realize, "Yes, you can." >> Stu: Daniel, we talk a lot about digital transformation. The automation often doesn't get talked, but in big companies; Microsoft, Oracle, SAP, seems a natural fit, I saw some of them are your partners, you came from Microsoft, maybe talk about that dynamic about how some of the, you know, big players that, you know, have the business process applications, how your solution fits with them, you know, are they going to be paying attention to this space? >> Daniel: Well, digital transformation, it's a big initiative for everybody. And RPA, it's actually right now, recognizes the first step in digital transformation. And obviously that if was RPA, AI, big business applications, it's not one single angle, but we covered the last mile of automation. We've covered the impossible, before, before this. And our automation first view of the world is beyond digital transformation because companies will exist after they build for digital transformation. But automation first is a, is a mindset. It's rethinking your operations by applying automation first. >> Dave: You have an open mindset, which is interesting. You even said on stage that, "Look, our competitors are beginning to mimic "some of our features and functions and our approach." And you said, "That's okay." I was surprised by that, especially given your Microsoft background, which was like, grind competitors into the ground. What's changed? Why the open mindset and why do you believe that's the right approach? >> Daniel: Look at Microsoft, Microsoft has changed. This is the-- it's much better, it's-- you feel better as a human. When you can offer something, "This is up, take it, give me feedback." We've been able to build way faster than them, having our open and free community. Open the software-- It gives you more joy as a developer seeing thousands of people than just guarding my little secret just for fear someone will copy it. It's way better. >> Dave: Now, you said on stage that a lot of people laughed at you when you were starting this company, you dream big. Somebody once said, Stu, that, "If you believe you can do it, "or you don't believe you can do it, you're right." "So you got to believe," was one of the things that you said. >> Daniel: That's the first thing. >> Dave: Yeah, so share with the young people out here who are dreaming big, everybody in their early 20's, they're dreaming big. Tell us about your story, your dreams, people who laughed at you, what were they laughing about and how did you power through that? Where did you get your conviction? >> Daniel: Well, first of all, they don't dream big enough. It's very difficult to big dream enough because you have your, you know-- it's the common sense that comes into the picture and it's the fear of other people laughing at you. And we haven't dreamt big enough. For 10-- for the first 10 years, we just wanted to make a good technology, the best technology that we can but that's not big enough. Big enough is change the world, big enough is bring something that makes people life better. This is big enough. If they think making people lives better, that's big enough. Nothing else is big enough. >> Dave: Well I love the fact, Daniel, that your mission-driven; that's clear. You're having some fun. You know this-- these apps are really a lot of fun. Do you still code? >> Daniel: No but I do a lot of software design and review. >> Dave: Okay, so you help, so the coders, they-- how do-- what's that dynamic like? You have-- obviously experienced developer. Do you sort of, tell them which path to go down or which path not to go down? Do you challenge them? What's your style, as a leader? >> Daniel: I challenge them to do things faster, always. They-- I ask them, let's do this feature and they say, "Two month." "No, two days." Why not? And then we go and break that one and it's a lot of conversation but usually we will deliver. Fast-- fast is also a way of being. Fastest company wins, and fast is a-- it's not easy to change the mind. Because you want-- maybe you want to be very organized, very sophisticated. If you are fast, you have to be ready to make mistakes, reverse your decision going, but you will go fast in the end. >> Dave: So that is kind of Steve Jobs-like, set a really challenging goal, and people somehow will figure it out, but culturally, you seem friendlier, nicer. It's not grinding people anymore, it's inspiring them. Is that a fair assessment? >> Daniel: My goal is to have the happiest team employees everywhere. Hap-- I like to be happy. I started this company for the joy of doing what I like, why not, this is, this is what I want for everyone. And we are-- we recently scored in comparably as one of the best company in terms of people happiness. >> Dave: Well congratulations, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Daniel: Thank you very much for inviting me. >> Dave: Really a pleasure having you. Alright, Stu and I will be back with our next guest. Right after this short break, we're live from UiPath... in Miami, you're watching theCUBE. Stay right there. (electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in our Palo Alto studios. The conference season is just about ready to take off so we still have some time to get some Cube conversations in before we hit the road and spend the next several days and weeks and months in Las Vegas, Orlando, and points on the compass. So, we're excited to have our next guest. She's Lynn Lucas, Cube alumni, CMO of Cohesity, Lynn, great to see you again. >> Jeff, super to be here for the first time in Palo Alto. >> Yeah, how do you like the studio? >> I love it! >> It's a little different than the vibe at the conferences. >> A little quieter-- >> A little quieter. >> Than the conferences but I like it. >> Well good, good, welcome, so you have relatively recently joined a new company, Cohesity, so congratulations on that. >> Thanks, yeah. >> And just curious, one, give us just a quick overview on Cohesity but more importantly, what did you see that attracted you, to get you to join? >> Great, yeah, so Cohesity, just joined at the beginning of January, having a blast. And really what I saw that attracted me to Cohesity was three things. It's an incredible founder, Mohit Aron, who was formerly the CTO and co-founder of Nutanix called the Father of Hyperconvergence and before that the lead developer at Google File System. And, he really is doing what a lot of Silicon Valley is known for, which is he took a step back and is looking at this space in the data center that we call secondary data, back up, archives, replications, test dev, analytics, and said, "You know what? "The world doesn't need a better point solution. "We need to take a step back and look "at how this gold mine of data can be used "in a much more efficient way." Because data is after all, is what's powering the worlds businesses and their differentiation. So, the technology, Mohit himself is a founder and then it's just an incredible start up culture. It's fast growing, we're having fun every day, I love going to work. >> It's amazing, I was just doing some background and you guys have raised $160 million. The list of leadership and board and advisory is pretty amazing. It's like a who's who from this industry. So he pulled together a helluva team. >> He really has and you know Carl Eschenbach, former COO of VM Ware is on our board. >> Cube alumni, Patrick Rogers. >> Rob Salmon. >> Cube alumni, we could go on and on. >> Yes, Ned App, Dan Wormehoven, Google Ventures is invested, Sequoia. I think Sequoia said we're the fastest growing company in their portfolio. We grew 600% year over year last year, 40 to 50% growth in new customers every quarter, cause they're is just such a pent up demand to really solve some of the problems that haven't been addressed over the last, really, couple of decades for the inefficiencies and how all of this data for these secondary workloads is managed. >> So you got an interesting graphic on the website talking about secondary data. And that it's really the ugly part of the iceberg below the water and significantly bigger, heavier, and more expensive to manage than the primary data. So I wonder if you could take us into that a little bit deeper, how did it get to be such a problem? And why is this new approach a better way to attack that problem? >> Sure and an iceberg is really kind of a good metaphor when you think about the data center. You know, we've got our production, and applications, primary storage and that's what's floating above the water and we see that 20% but below is another 80%. And, according to most industry analysts, IDC, Gartner, that represents not just 80% of the data but 80% of the cost. On average, IDC says every organization has 12 to 14 copies of each piece of data. And that happens because what's grown up over time is point solutions for all the various work loads. You got one set of hardware and software for backup. You've got another set for test dev. You've got another set for analytics. There's been no sharing of the data. There's no single infrastructure, knowing even or operations knowing what you have and being able to tell you where the inefficiencies are and so you think about a developer in retail or in a bank organization, they're requesting a copy of a data to develop the new applications that copy gets instantiated. They do their work, never gets erased, just like in our consumer life. >> Right, Right. >> Do you ever erase photos off your phone? >> I can't tell you how many copies and copies and copies of, cause it's, cause it's often-- >> It's easy. >> You figure, it's easier to make another copy just in case, right? >> Exactly, so that never goes away and then you've got yet another copy for the next time they need an updated set. And so, this has been multiplying and it creates just an incredible expense to maintain and operate. And it also creates a lot of risk these days for organizations because of new regulations like GDPR. >> Right. >> Where are all those copies of personal information from e-use citizens, people don't even know anymore. >> Right, and then there's, you know, two other big factors that have come into play in recent years. Software to find and public cloud. Two really big, huge tidal waves of change that were not accommodated in prior architectures so you guys, obviously, saw that opportunity glommed on and are now offering something that can take care of the different types of needs based on what type of infrastructure you need, really not at a company level. But really at the application or the workload level right? >> Yeah, so I think it's a great point and I won't claim any credit for this, this is Mehit and his team of developers and really, as you pointed out, what do we see organizations looking for now? They now realize that, hey, if I can get a software to find platform, a lot of commodity hardware does a really good job for me and I want to have that flexibility to choose, you know, what vendor I might be using. So, Mohit developed a software to find platform that addresses, how do you bring all of these data and these workloads together in one platform so I can have a consistent set of infrastructure and a consistent operational model and, because of his heritage, working at Google, being one of the lead developers for Google File System, it comes with this cloud first mentality. So this is not a bolt on with a gateway to get to Amazon or get to Azure. >> Right. >> This is a software platform that natively understands and spans both your private cloud and your on premises data center and the public cloud. So it gives an IT organization the flexibility to choose how do I want to use the public cloud with my private data center and not have to think really about, kind of, that plumbing below. >> Right. >> Below the water line anymore. >> Because, because there is no either or, right? It's really workload specific where that particular workload lives and the storage that supports that. >> Yeah, so so let me be specific about what Cohesity offers. It's software defined and we offer a appliance so that it's very easy for an organization to go in and say, you know what, data protection, backup frankly, legacy architectures built 20 years ago, before the advent of the cloud. Biggest pain point we see right now can move in a Cohesity hyperconverged appliance and solve that problem and gain massive business benefits right away. We offer global deduplication, very advanced compression and erasure coding and we have customers that are telling us that they're seeing eight to one, ten to one, even 14 to one ratios that really then give them-- >> 14:1 ratio and a reduction of capacity to store the same amount of stuff? >> Versus from some of the current customer, or current vendors that they have been using, from what I would call these legacy architectures. >> Right, right, that's pretty significant. >> So they're getting an amazing storage efficiency. Then, they often next say, wow I'd like to give my developers the flexibility of spinning this up in the cloud. So we offer a cloud edition that allows them to choose whether they want to operate on Azure on Amazon on Google cloud and be able to move that data into the cloud, use it for a test dev instance, but again all under the same software interface all looks like one operating system. No bolt on gateway to manage. >> Right, so you get it-- >> And then. >> I'm sorry go ahead. >> And I was going to say in the third part is many organizations obviously have remote offices, branch offices so there's a virtual edition too. >> Right. So I'm just curious on the cloud side. So Andy Chassis' been on a ton of times, great guy. >> Yes. >> You know, one of the promises of cloud is spin up what you need and spin down when you - don't, as you said. >> Right. >> Nobody ever spins anything down so are you seeing customers have the same type of, of economic impact in managing their storage that's in the public clouds? Because now they're actually spinning down what they don't need or consolidating more efficiently. >> Yeah, so I think that we've seen, in general, in the industry that if you likened the data center it'd kind of been a messy garage where there was a lot of things in the garage and you weren't really sure what it was. A lot of folks, I would say five plus years ago, were like, kind of ran to the cloud cause it was clean and new and it was like that new shiny storage box. >> Right. >> You know, that you see parked on people's driveways sometimes and then realize that there can be a lot of expense, cause you're really replicating in the cloud, some of these same silos if you're not careful. >> Right. >> We're going to help customers avoid that. I think customers are much more sophisticated now than say five years ago. And they're now looking at what's the best way for me to incorporate public cloud. >> Right. >> So really common use case right now would be what I mentioned before test dev, let's move something there, get the benefit of the compute, do some analytics on it, build some new application, maybe get spun down after that but another really common use case is a lot of organizations worried about disaster recovery, bringing the cloud in as their second site. Because that's a very efficient way for them to do that and not build yet another on premises data center. >> Silo. >> Yeah. >> So, the company's been around, the a round is 2013, you're coming in as a CMO. You're brand new and fresh, what's your charter? You know, you didn't come in at a low level you came in with the C, what are you excited about, what you know, again why did they bring you in and what are you going to bring to the table and what are your priorities for the rest of 2018 and beyond? I still can't believe we're a third, a quarter of the way through 2018. >> Yes we are. We're going to be at those shows pretty soon. >> (laughing) I know, they're comin'. >> They are, so I'm here really to build on the good work that the team has done and I'm just really thrilled to be at the company. I think what my charter is is to continue the company's expansion. So, they've seen tremendous growth and in fact, we've just really launched into Asia so we now have a large sales presence in Australia, New Zealand and we're going to continue to expand into the rest of Asia. Significantly expanded in Europe as well recently. So part of my charter is to bring the marketing programs to all of these new regions and in general, to up our awareness level. I think Cohesity has an incredible opportunity to really be one of those companies that changes the data center landscape. >> Right. >> And I want to make sure the world knows about the incredible benefits the customers are seeing already with us. And do that in a way that really features the customer voice. I've been on theCUBE before and I talked about that. For me, that is all about ensuring that the customer voice is really front and center and so hopefully we'll bring a Cohesity customer here. >> Good, well and I just want to ask you kind of from a marketing professional in B2B business, it's a really challenging time in terms of, of the scarcity now is not information, which it used to be. Now the scarcity is in attention and people can get a lot of information before they ever make it to your website within peer groups and hopefully watching some Cube interviews, et cetera. So I'm just curious to get your perspective from a Chief Marketing Officer how are you kind of looking at the challenges of getting the message out. It's a really different world than it was years and years ago. >> Yeah. >> People aren't reading white paper so much and it's a different challenge. >> Yeah, and it's part of the fun actually in being in marketing and being in marketing and tech because a lot of that cool technology for marketing is invented right here in the Valley too. So, you know, I think that word of mouth still actually plays an incredible role and it is that customer voice but bringing that out in ways that are accessible for customers. You and I know, we're all very ADD, very time sliced-- >> Right. >> And so those small moments on social media where you can feature bits of information that get people's attention. In fact, we're running something right now, which I think has a lot of legs because at the end of the day I'm selling to a human. >> Right? >> Right. >> Right. >> So we've got B2B monikers but at the end of the day, folks are people that laugh, they cry, they want to have fun. >> Right. >> So we're running a break up with your legacy backup campaign right now. And I encourage the audience to go check it out. It's pinned on our Twitter feed at Cohesity but it pokes a little bit of fun at how you might break up with your older vendor-- >> Right. >> And that's a moment that we think captures folks attention and gets them interested so that maybe they do want to move down and read the white paper and so forth. So I look to do that through combinations of just, you know, bringing out Cohesity's incredible voice, our customer voice, and then sharing it on social because that's the way people really get their information these days. >> Right, this is really interesting cause I think the voice of the customer or the trusted referral's actually more valuable now because it's just a different problem. Before, I couldn't get information, so that was a good valuable sort, now it's really that person's my trusted filter cause I have too much information. >> Right. >> I can't, I can't take it in so that continues to be that trusted filter and conduit so I could just focus on my peers and not necessarily try to read everything that comes out. >> Exactly, you know, so as an example, Manhattan Associates is one of Cohesity's customers and we've been super thrilled to be able to feature them you know, through social, through our website, and let them talk about the benefits of moving to the platform and what they've seen. And I know, I hate to say it, but Gartner as well continues to be an incredible influence on most organizations and, but we're pleased to say that our customers chose Cohesity and we won the Gartner peer insights for data center backup software, just about a month ago. So, that again is another example of customers looking at the options that they have and voting with their voice and we'll continue to drive that message out in the variety of ways and hopefully get people engaged so that they can see that there really is a completely different way of managing your secondary data and getting a lot better efficiencies and a lot lower cost. >> Yeah, good exciting times, challenging times. The old marketing mantra, right? Half of my marketing budget's wasted, I just don't know which half. (laughing) So, you know you got to cover all your bases from the old school Gartner to the new school, having some fun, and some comedy. Well Lynn, really fun to sit down and spend a few minutes and to get deeper into the Cohesity story. >> Likewise, thank you and I'll be seeing you in Orlando, Vegas, and those other points on the compass. >> Alright, she's Lynn Lucas, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watchin' theCUBE from the Palo Alto studios. Great to see ya, we'll see ya next time. Thanks for watchin'. (upbeat music)