(upbeat music) >> Welcome back everyone to The Cubes coverage here in Seattle, Washington. For AWS's Marketplace Seller Conference. It's the big news within the Amazon partner network, combining with marketplace, forming the Amazon partner organization. Part of a big reorg as they grow to the next level, NextGen cloud, mid-game on the chessboard. Cube's got it covered. I'm John Furry, your host at Cube. Great guests here from Data bricks. Both cube alumni's. Jack Anderson, GM and VP of the Databricks partnership team for AWS. You handle that relationship and Joel Minick vice president of product and partner marketing. You guys have the keys to the kingdom with Databricks and AWS. Thanks for joining. Good to see you again. >> Thanks for having us back. >> Yeah, John, great to be here. >> So I feel like we're at Reinvent 2013. Small event, no stage, but there's a real shift happening with procurement. Obviously it's a no brainer on the micro, you know, people should be buying online. Self-service, Cloud Scale. But Amazon's got billions being sold through their marketplace. They've reorganized their partner network. You can see kind of what's going on. They've kind of figured it out. Like let's put everything together and simplify and make it less of a website, marketplace. Merge our partner organizations, have more synergy and frictionless experiences so everyone can make more money and customer's are going to be happier. >> Yeah, that's right. >> I mean, you're running relationship. You're in the middle of it. >> Well, Amazon's mental model here is that they want the world's best ISVs to operate on AWS so that we can collaborate and co architect on behalf of customers. And that's exactly what the APO and marketplace allow us to do, is to work with Amazon on these really, you know, unique use cases. >> You know, I interviewed Ali many times over the years. I remember many years ago, maybe six, seven years ago, we were talking. He's like, "we're all in on AWS." Obviously now the success of Databricks, you've got multiple clouds, see that. Customers have choice. But I remember the strategy early on. It was like, we're going to be deep. So this is, speaks volumes to the relationship you have. Years. Jack, take us through the relationship that Databricks has with AWS from a partner perspective. Joel, and from a product perspective. Because it's not like you guys are Johnny come lately, new to the scene. >> Right. >> You've been there, almost president creation of this wave. What's the relationship and how does it relate to what's going on today? >> So most people may not know that Databricks was born on AWS. We actually did our first $100 million of revenue on Amazon. And today we're obviously available on multiple clouds. But we're very fond of our Amazon relationship. And when you look at what the APN allows us to do, you know, we're able to expand our reach and co-sell with Amazon, and marketplace broadens our reach. And so, we think of marketplace in three different aspects. We've got the marketplace private offer business, which we've been doing for a number of years. Matter of fact, we were driving well over a hundred percent year over year growth in private offers. And we have a nine figure business. So it's a very significant business. And when a customer uses a private offer, that private offer counts against their private pricing agreement with AWS. So they get pricing power against their private pricing. So it's really important it goes on their Amazon bill. In may we launched our pay as you go, on demand offering. And in five short months, we have well over a thousand subscribers. And what this does, is it really reduces the barriers to entry. It's low friction. So anybody in an enterprise or startup or public sector company can start to use Databricks on AWS, in a consumption based model, and have it go against their monthly bill. And so we see customers, you know, doing rapid experimentation, pilots, POCs. They're really learning the value of that first, use case. And then we see rapid use case expansion. And the third aspect is the consulting partner, private offer, CPPO. Super important in how we involve our partner ecosystem of our consulting partners and our resellers that are able to work with Databricks on behalf of customers. >> So you got the big contracts with the private offer. You got the product market fit, kind of people iterating with data, coming in with the buyers you get. And obviously the integration piece all fitting in there. >> Exactly. >> Okay, so those are the offers, that's current, what's in marketplace today. Is that the products... What are people buying? >> Yeah. >> I mean, I guess what's the... Joel, what are people buying in the marketplace? And what does it mean for them? >> So fundamentally what they're buying is the ability to take silos out of their organization. And that is the problem that Databricks is out there to solve. Which is, when you look across your data landscape today, you've got unstructured data, you've got structured data, you've got real time streaming data. And your teams are trying to use all of this data to solve really complicated problems. And as Databricks, as the Lakehouse Company, what we're helping customers do is, how do they get into the new world? How do they move to a place where they can use all of that data across all of their teams? And so we allow them to begin to find, through the marketplace, those rapid adoption use cases where they can get rid of these data warehousing, data lake silos they've had in the past. Get their unstructured and structured data onto one data platform, an open data platform, that is no longer adherent to any proprietary formats and standards and something they can, very much, very easily, integrate into the rest of their data environment. Apply one common data governance layer on top of that. So that from the time they ingest that data, to the time they use that data, to the time they share that data, inside and outside of their organization, they know exactly how it's flowing. They know where it came from. They know who's using it. They know who has access to it. They know how it's changing. And then with that common data platform, with that common governance solution, they'd being able to bring all of those use cases together. Across their real time streaming, their data engineering, their BI, their AI. All of their teams working on one set of data. And that lets them move really, really fast. And it also lets them solve challenges they just couldn't solve before. A good example of this, you know, one of the world's now largest data streaming platforms runs on Databricks with AWS. And if you think about what does it take to set that up? Well, they've got all this customer data that was historically inside of data warehouses. That they have to understand who their customers are. They have all this unstructured data, they've built their data science model, so they can do the right kinds of recommendation engines and forecasting around. And then they've got all this streaming data going back and forth between click stream data, from what the customers are doing with their platform and the recommendations they want to push back out. And if those teams were all working in individual silos, building these kinds of platforms would be extraordinarily slow and complex. But by building it on Databricks, they were able to release it in record time and have grown at a record pace to now be the number one platform. >> And this product, it's impacting product development. >> Absolutely. >> I mean, this is like the difference between lagging months of product development, to like days. >> Yes. >> Pretty much what you're getting at. >> Yes. >> So total agility. >> Mm-hmm. >> I got that. Okay, now, I'm a customer I want to buy in the marketplace, but you got direct Salesforce up there. So how do you guys look at this? Is there channel conflict? Are there comp programs? Because one of the things I heard today in on the stage from AWS's leadership, Chris, was up there speaking, and Mona was, "Hey, he's a CRO conference chief revenue officer" conversation. Which means someone's getting compensated. So, if I'm the sales rep at Databricks, what's my motion to the customer? Do I get paid? Does Amazon sell it? Take us through that. Is there channel conflict? Or, how do you handle it? >> Well, I'd add what Joel just talked about with, you know, with the solution, the value of the solution our entire offering is available on AWS marketplace. So it's not a subset, it's the entire Data Bricks offering. And- >> The flagship, all the, the top stuff. >> Everything, the flagship, the complete offering. So it's not segmented. It's not a sub segment. >> Okay. >> It's, you know, you can use all of our different offerings. Now when it comes to seller compensation, we view this two different ways, right? One is that AWS is also incented, right? Versus selling a native service to recommend Databricks for the right situation. Same thing with Databricks, our sales force wants to do the right thing for the customer. If the customer wants to use marketplace as their procurement vehicle. And that really helps customers because if you get Databricks and five other ISVs together, and let's say each ISV is spending, you're spending a million dollars. You have $5 million of spend. You put that spend through the flywheel with AWS marketplace, and then you can use that in your negotiations with AWS to get better pricing overall. So that's how we view it. >> So customers are driving. This sounds like. >> Correct. For sure. >> So they're looking at this as saying, Hey, I'm going to just get purchasing power with all my relationships. Because it's a solution architectural market, right? >> Yeah. It makes sense. Because if most customers will have a primary and secondary cloud provider. If they can consolidate, you know, multiple ISV spend through that same primary provider, you get pricing power. >> Okay, Joel, we're going to date ourselves. At least I will. So back in the old days, (group laughter) It used to be, do a Barney deal with someone, Hey, let's go to market together. You got to get paper, you do a biz dev deal. And then you got to say, okay, now let's coordinate our sales teams, a lot of moving parts. So what you're getting at here is that the alternative for Databricks, or any company is, to go find those partners and do deals, versus now Amazon is the center point for the customer. So you can still do those joint deals, but this seems to be flipping the script a little bit. >> Well, it is, but we still have vars and consulting partners that are doing implementation work. Very valuable work, advisory work, that can actually work with marketplace through the CPPO offering. So the marketplace allows multiple ways to procure your solution. >> So it doesn't change your business structure. It just makes it more efficient. >> That's correct. >> That's a great way to say it. >> Yeah, that's great. >> Okay. So, that's it. So that's just makes it more efficient. So you guys are actually incented to point customers to the marketplace. >> Yes. >> Absolutely. >> Economically. >> Economically, it's the right thing to do for the customer. It's the right thing to do for our relationship with Amazon. Especially when it comes back to co-selling, right? Because Amazon now is leaning in with ISVs and making recommendations for, you know, an ISV solution. And our teams are working backwards from those use cases, you know, to collaborate and land them. >> Yeah. I want to get that out there. Go ahead, Joel. >> So one of the other things I might add to that too, you know, and why this is advantageous for companies like Databricks to work through the marketplace. Is it makes it so much easier for customers to deploy a solution. It's very, literally, one click through the marketplace to get Databricks stood up inside of your environment. And so if you're looking at how do I help customers most rapidly adopt these solutions in the AWS cloud, the marketplace is a fantastic accelerator to that. >> You know, it's interesting. I want to bring this up and get your reaction to it because to me, I think this is the future of procurement. So from a procurement standpoint, I mean, again, dating myself, EDI back in the old days, you know, all that craziness. Now this is all the internet, basically through the console. I get the infrastructure side, you know, spin up and provision some servers, all been good. You guys have played well there in the marketplace. But now as we get into more of what I call the business apps, and they brought this up on stage. A little nuanced. Most enterprises aren't yet there of integrating tech, on the business apps, into the stack. This is where I think you guys are a use case of success where you guys have been successful with data integration. It's an integrators dilemma, not an innovator's dilemma. So like, I want to integrate. So now I have integration points with Databricks, but I want to put an app in there. I want to provision an application, but it has to be built. It's not, you don't buy it. You build, you got to build stuff. And this is the nuance. What's your reaction to that? Am I getting this right? Or am I off because, no one's going to be buying software like they used to. They buy software to integrate it. >> Yeah, no- >> Because everything's integrated. >> I think AWS has done a great job at creating a partner ecosystem, right? To give customers the right tools for the right jobs. And those might be with third parties. Databricks is doing the same thing with our partner connect program, right? We've got customer partners like Five Tran and DBT that, you know, augment and enhance our platform. And so you're looking at multi ISV architectures and all of that can be procured through the AWS marketplace. >> Yeah. It's almost like, you know, bundling and un bundling. I was talking about this with, with Dave Alante about Supercloud. Which is why wouldn't a customer want the best solution in their architecture? Period. In its class. If someone's got API security or an API gateway. Well, you know, I don't want to be forced to buy something because it's part of a suite. And that's where you see things get sub optimized. Where someone dominates a category and they have, oh, you got to buy my version of this. >> Joel and I were talking, we were actually saying, what's really important about Databricks, is that customers control the data, right? You want to comment on that? >> Yeah. I was going to say, you know, what you're pushing on there, we think is extraordinarily, you know, the way the market is going to go. Is that customers want a lot of control over how they build their data stack. And everyone's unique in what tools are the right ones for them. And so one of the, you know, philosophically, I think, really strong places, Databricks and AWS have lined up, is we both take an approach that you should be able to have maximum flexibility on the platform. And as we think about the Lakehouse, one thing we've always been extremely committed to, as a company, is building the data platform on an open foundation. And we do that primarily through Delta Lake and making sure that, to Jack's point, with Databricks, the data is always in your control. And then it's always stored in a completely open format. And that is one of the things that's allowed Databricks to have the breadth of integrations that it has with all the other data tools out there. Because you're not tied into any proprietary format, but instead are able to take advantage of all the innovation that's happening out there in the open source ecosystem. >> When you see other solutions out there that aren't as open as you guys, you guys are very open by the way, we love that too. We think that's a great strategy, but what am I foreclosing if I go with something else that's not as open? What's the customer's downside as you think about what's around the corner in the industry? Because if you believe it's going to be open, open source, which I think open source software is the software industry, and integration is a big deal. Because software's going to be plentiful. >> Sure. >> Let's face it. It's a good time to be in software business. But Cloud's booming. So what's the downside, from your Databricks perspective? You see a buyer clicking on Databricks versus that alternative. What's potentially should they be a nervous about, down the road, if they go with a more proprietary or locked in approach? >> Yeah. >> Well, I think the challenge with proprietary ecosystems is you become beholden to the ability of that provider to both build relationships and convince other vendors that they should invest in that format. But you're also, then, beholden to the pace at which that provider is able to innovate. >> Mm-hmm. >> And I think we've seen lots of times over history where, you know, a proprietary format may run ahead, for a while, on a lot of innovation. But as that market control begins to solidify, that desire to innovate begins to degrade. Whereas in the open formats- >> So extract rents versus innovation. (John laughs) >> Exactly. Yeah, exactly. >> I'll say it. >> But in the open world, you know, you have to continue to innovate. >> Yeah. >> And the open source world is always innovating. If you look at the last 10 to 15 years, I challenge you to find, you know, an example where the innovation in the data and AI world is not coming from open source. And so by investing in open ecosystems, that means you are always going to be at the forefront of what is the latest. >> You know, again, not to date myself again, but you look back at the eighties and nineties, the protocol stacked with proprietary. >> Yeah. >> You know, SNA and IBM, deck net was digital. You know the rest. And then TCPIP was part of the open systems interconnect. >> Mm-hmm. >> Revolutionary (indistinct) a big part of that, as well as my school did. And so like, you know, that was, but it didn't standardize the whole stack. It stopped at IP and TCP. >> Yeah. >> But that helped inter operate, that created a nice defacto. So this is a big part of this mid game. I call it the chessboard, you know, you got opening game and mid-game, then you get the end game. You're not there at the end game yet at Cloud. But Cloud- >> There's, always some form of lock in, right? Andy Jazzy will address it, you know, when making a decision. But if you're going to make a decision you want to reduce- You don't want to be limited, right? So I would advise a customer that there could be limitations with a proprietary architecture. And if you look at what every customer's trying to become right now, is an AI driven business, right? And so it has to do with, can you get that data out of silos? Can you organize it and secure it? And then can you work with data scientists to feed those models? >> Yeah. >> In a very consistent manner. And so the tools of tomorrow will, to Joel's point, will be open and we want interoperability with those tools. >> And choice is a matter too. And I would say that, you know, the argument for why I think Amazon is not as locked in as maybe some other clouds, is that they have to compete directly too. Redshift competes directly with a lot of other stuff. But they can't play the bundling game because the customers are getting savvy to the fact that if you try to bundle an inferior product with something else, it may not work great at all. And they're going to be, they're onto it. This is the- >> To Amazon's credit by having these solutions that may compete with native services in marketplace, they are providing customers with choice, low price- >> And access to the core value. Which is the hardware- >> Exactly. >> Which is their platform. Okay. So I want to get you guys thought on something else I see emerging. This is, again, kind of Cube rumination moment. So on stage, Chris unpacked a lot of stuff. I mean this marketplace, they're touching a lot of hot buttons here, you know, pricing, compensation, workflows, services behind the curtain. And one of those things he mentioned was, they talk about resellers or channel partners, depending upon what you talk about. We believe, Dave and I believe on the Cube, that the entire indirect sales channel of the industry is going to be disrupted radically. Because those players were selling hardware in the old days and software. That game is going to change. You mentioned you guys have a program, let me get your thoughts on this. We believe that once this gets set up, they can play in this game and bring their services in. Which means that the old reseller channels are going to be rewritten. They're going to be refactored with this new kinds of access. Because you've got scale, you've got money and you've got product. And you got customers coming into the marketplace. So if you're like a reseller that sold computers to data centers or software, you know, a value added reseller or VAB or business. >> You've got to evolve. >> You got to, you got to be here. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> How are you guys working with those partners? Because you say you have a product in your marketplace there. How do I make money if I'm a reseller with Databricks, with Amazon? Take me through that use case. >> Well I'll let Joel comment, but I think it's pretty straightforward, right? Customers need expertise. They need knowhow. When we're seeing customers do mass migrations to the cloud or Hadoop specific migrations or data transformation implementations. They need expertise from consulting and SI partners. If those consulting and SI partners happen to resell the solution as well. Well, that's another aspect of their business. But I really think it is the expertise that the partners bring to help customers get outcomes. >> Joel, channel big opportunity for Amazon to reimagine this. >> For sure. Yeah. And I think, you know, to your comment about how do resellers take advantage of that, I think what Jack was pushing on is spot on. Which is, it's becoming more and more about the expertise you bring to the table. And not just transacting the software. But now actually helping customers make the right choices. And we're seeing, you know, both SIs begin to be able to resell solutions and finding a lot of opportunity in that. >> Yeah. And I think we're seeing traditional resellers begin to move into that SI model as well. And that's going to be the evolution that this goes. >> At the end of the day, it's about services, right? >> For sure. Yeah. >> I mean... >> You've got a great service. You're going to have high gross profits. >> Yeah >> Managed service provider business is alive and well, right? Because there are a number of customers that want that type of a service. >> I think that's going to be a really hot, hot button for you guys. I think being the way you guys are open, this channel, partner services model coming in, to the fold, really kind of makes for kind of that Supercloud like experience, where you guys now have an ecosystem. And that's my next question. You guys have an ecosystem going on, within Databricks. >> For sure. >> On top of this ecosystem. How does that work? This is kind of like, hasn't been written up in business school and case studies yet. This is new. What is this? >> I think, you know, what it comes down to is, you're seeing ecosystems begin to evolve around the data platforms. And that's going to be one of the big, kind of, new horizons for us as we think about what drives ecosystems. It's going to be around, well, what's the data platform that I'm using? And then all the tools that have to encircle that to get my business done. And so I think there's, you know, absolutely ecosystems inside of the AWS business on all of AWS's services, across data analytics and AI. And then to your point, you are seeing ecosystems now arise around Databricks in its Lakehouse platform as well. As customers are looking at well, if I'm standing these Lakehouses up and I'm beginning to invest in this, then I need a whole set of tools that help me get that done as well. >> I mean you think about ecosystem theory, we're living a whole nother dream. And I'm not kidding. It hasn't yet been written up and for business school case studies is that, we're now in a whole nother connective tissue, ecology thing happening. Where you have dependencies and value proposition. Economics, connectedness. So you have relationships in these ecosystems. >> And I think one of the great things about the relationships with these ecosystems, is that there's a high degree of overlap. >> Yeah. >> So you're seeing that, you know, the way that the cloud business is evolving, the ecosystem partners of Databricks, are the same ecosystem partners of AWS. And so as you build these platforms out into the cloud, you're able to really take advantage of best of breed, the broadest set of solutions out there for you. >> Joel, Jack, I love it because you know what it means? The best ecosystem will win, if you keep it open. >> Sure, sure. >> You can see everything. If you're going to do it in the dark, you know, you don't know the outcome. I mean, this is really kind of what we're talking about. >> And John, can I just add that when I was at Amazon, we had a theory that there's buyers and builders, right? There's very innovative companies that want to build things themselves. We're seeing now that that builders want to buy a platform. Right? >> Yeah. >> And so there's a platform decision being made and that ecosystem is going to evolve around the platform. >> Yeah, and I totally agree. And the word innovation gets kicked around. That's why, you know, when we had our Supercloud panel, it was called the innovators dilemma, with a slash through it, called the integrater's dilemma. Innovation is the digital transformation. So- >> Absolutely. >> Like that becomes cliche in a way, but it really becomes more of a, are you open? Are you integrating? If APIs are connective tissue, what's automation, what's the service messages look like? I mean, a whole nother set of, kind of thinking, goes on in these new ecosystems and these new products. >> And that thinking is, has been born in Delta Sharing, right? So the idea that you can have a multi-cloud implementation of Databricks, and actually share data between those two different clouds, that is the next layer on top of the native cloud solution. >> Well, Databricks has done a good job of building on top of the goodness of, and the CapEx gift from AWS. But you guys have done a great job taking that building differentiation into the product. You guys have great customer base, great growing ecosystem. And again, I think a shining example of what every enterprise is going to do. Build on top of something, operating model, get that operating model, driving revenue. >> Mm-hmm. >> Yeah. >> Whether, you're Goldman Sachs or capital one or XYZ corporation. >> S and P global, NASDAQ. >> Yeah. >> We've got, you know, the biggest verticals in the world are solving tough problems with Databricks. I think we'd be remiss because if Ali was here, he would really want to thank Amazon for all of the investments across all of the different functions. Whether it's the relationship we have with our engineering and service teams. Our marketing teams, you know, product development. And we're going to be at Reinvent. A big presence at Reinvent. We're looking forward to seeing you there, again. >> Yeah. We'll see you guys there. Yeah. Again, good ecosystem. I love the ecosystem evolutions happening. This NextGen Cloud is here. We're seeing this evolve, kind of new economics, new value propositions kind of scaling up. Producing more. So you guys are doing a great job. Thanks for coming on the Cube and taking the time. Joel, great to see you at the check. >> Thanks for having us, John. >> Okay. Cube coverage here. The world's changing as APN comes together with the marketplace for a new partner organization at Amazon web services. The Cube's got it covered. This should be a very big, growing ecosystem as this continues. Billions of being sold through the marketplace. And of course the buyers are happy as well. So we've got it all covered. I'm John Furry. your host of the cube. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante at our inaugural super cloud 22 event we further refined the concept of a super cloud iterating on the definition the salient attributes and some examples of what is and what is not a super cloud welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr you know snowflake has always been what we feel is one of the strongest examples of a super cloud and in this breaking analysis from our studios in palo alto we unpack our interview with benoit de javille co-founder and president of products at snowflake and we test our super cloud definition on the company's data cloud platform and we're really looking forward to your feedback first let's examine how we defl find super cloudant very importantly one of the goals of super cloud 22 was to get the community's input on the definition and iterate on previous work super cloud is an emerging computing architecture that comprises a set of services which are abstracted from the underlying primitives of hyperscale clouds we're talking about services such as compute storage networking security and other native tooling like machine learning and developer tools to create a global system that spans more than one cloud super cloud as shown on this slide has five essential properties x number of deployment models and y number of service models we're looking for community input on x and y and on the first point as well so please weigh in and contribute now we've identified these five essential elements of a super cloud let's talk about these first the super cloud has to run its services on more than one cloud leveraging the cloud native tools offered by each of the cloud providers the builder of the super cloud platform is responsible for optimizing the underlying primitives of each cloud and optimizing for the specific needs be it cost or performance or latency or governance data sharing security etc but those primitives must be abstracted such that a common experience is delivered across the clouds for both users and developers the super cloud has a metadata intelligence layer that can maximize efficiency for the specific purpose of the super cloud i.e the purpose that the super cloud is intended for and it does so in a federated model and it includes what we call a super pass this is a prerequisite that is a purpose-built component and enables ecosystem partners to customize and monetize incremental services while at the same time ensuring that the common experiences exist across clouds now in terms of deployment models we'd really like to get more feedback on this piece but here's where we are so far based on the feedback we got at super cloud 22. we see three deployment models the first is one where a control plane may run on one cloud but supports data plane interactions with more than one other cloud the second model instantiates the super cloud services on each individual cloud and within regions and can support interactions across more than one cloud with a unified interface connecting those instantiations those instances to create a common experience and the third model superimposes its services as a layer or in the case of snowflake they call it a mesh on top of the cloud on top of the cloud providers region or regions with a single global instantiation a single global instantiation of those services which spans multiple cloud providers this is our understanding from a comfort the conversation with benoit dejaville as to how snowflake approaches its solutions and for now we're going to park the service models we need to more time to flesh that out and we'll propose something shortly for you to comment on now we peppered benoit dejaville at super cloud 22 to test how the snowflake data cloud aligns to our concepts and our definition let me also say that snowflake doesn't use the term data cloud they really want to respect and they want to denigrate the importance of their hyperscale partners nor do we but we do think the hyperscalers today anyway are building or not building what we call super clouds but they are but but people who bar are building super clouds are building on top of hyperscale clouds that is a prerequisite so here are the questions that we tested with snowflake first question how does snowflake architect its data cloud and what is its deployment model listen to deja ville talk about how snowflake has architected a single system play the clip there are several ways to do this you know uh super cloud as as you name them the way we we we picked is is to create you know one single system and that's very important right the the the um [Music] there are several ways right you can instantiate you know your solution uh in every region of a cloud and and you know potentially that region could be a ws that region could be gcp so you are indeed a multi-cloud solution but snowflake we did it differently we are really creating cloud regions which are superposed on top of the cloud provider you know region infrastructure region so we are building our regions but but where where it's very different is that each region of snowflake is not one in instantiation of our service our service is global by nature we can move data from one region to the other when you land in snowflake you land into one region but but you can grow from there and you can you know exist in multiple clouds at the same time and that's very important right it's not one single i mean different instantiation of a system is one single instantiation which covers many cloud regions and many cloud providers snowflake chose the most advanced level of our three deployment models dodgeville talked about too presumably so it could maintain maximum control and ensure that common experience like the iphone model next we probed about the technical enablers of the data cloud listen to deja ville talk about snow grid he uses the term mesh and then this can get confusing with the jamaicani's data mesh concept but listen to benoit's explanation well as i said you know first we start by building you know snowflake regions we have today furry region that spawn you know the world so it's a worldwide worldwide system with many regions but all these regions are connected together they are you know meshed together with our technology we name it snow grid and that makes it hard because you know regions you know azure region can talk to a ws region or gcp regions and and as a as a user of our cloud you you don't see really these regional differences that you know regions are in different you know potentially clown when you use snowflake you can exist your your presence as an organization can be in several regions several clouds if you want geographic and and and both geographic and cloud provider so i can share data irrespective of the the cloud and i'm in the snowflake data cloud is that correct i can do that today exactly and and that's very critical right what we wanted is to remove data silos and and when you instantiate a system in one single region and that system is locked in that region you cannot communicate with other parts of the world you are locking the data in one region right and we didn't want to do that we wanted you know data to be distributed the way customer wants it to be distributed across the world and potentially sharing data at world scale now maybe there are many ways to skin the other cat meaning perhaps if a platform does instantiate in multiple places there are ways to share data but this is how snowflake chose to approach the problem next question how do you deal with latency in this big global system this is really important to us because while snowflake has some really smart people working as engineers and and the like we don't think they've solved for the speed of light problem the best people working on it as we often joke listen to benoit deja ville's comments on this topic so yes and no the the way we do it it's very expensive to do that because generally if you want to join you know data which is in which are in different regions and different cloud it's going to be very expensive because you need to move you know data every time you join it so the way we do it is that you replicate the subset of data that you want to access from one region from other regions so you can create this data mesh but data is replicated to make it very cheap and very performant too and is the snow grid does that have the metadata intelligence yes to actually can you describe that a little bit yeah snow grid is both uh a way to to exchange you know metadata about so each region of snowflake knows about all the other regions of snowflake every time we create a new region diary you know the metadata is distributed over our data cloud not only you know region knows all the regions but knows you know every organization that exists in our clouds where this organization is where data can be replicated by this organization and then of course it's it's also used as a way to uh uh exchange data right so you can exchange you know beta by scale of data size and we just had i was just receiving an email from one of our customers who moved more than four petabytes of data cross-region cross you know cloud providers in you know few days and you know it's a lot of data so it takes you know some time to move but they were able to do that online completely online and and switch over you know to the diff to the other region which is failover is very important also so yes and no probably means typically no he says yes and no probably means no so it sounds like snowflake is selectively pulling small amounts of data and replicating it where necessary but you also heard him talk about the metadata layer which is one of the essential aspects of super cloud okay next we dug into security it's one of the most important issues and we think one of the hardest parts related to deploying super cloud so we've talked about how the cloud has become the first line of defense for the cso but now with multi-cloud you have multiple first lines of defense and that means multiple shared responsibility models and multiple tool sets from different cloud providers and an expanded threat surface so listen to benoit's explanation here please play the clip this is a great question uh security has always been the most important aspect of snowflake since day one right this is the question that every customer of ours has you know how you can you guarantee the security of my data and so we secure data really tightly in region we have several layers of security it starts by by encrypting it every data at rest and that's very important a lot of customers are not doing that right you hear these attacks for example on on cloud you know where someone left you know their buckets uh uh open and then you know you can access the data because it's a non-encrypted uh so we are encrypting everything at rest we are encrypting everything in transit so a region is very secure now you know you never from one region you never access data from another region in snowflake that's why also we replicate data now the replication of that data across region or the metadata for that matter is is really highly secure so snow grits ensure that everything is encrypted everything is you know we have multiple you know encryption keys and it's you know stored in hardware you know secure modules so we we we built you know snow grids such that it's secure and it allows very secure movement of data so when we heard this explanation we immediately went to the lowest common denominator question meaning when you think about how aws for instance deals with data in motion or data and rest it might be different from how another cloud provider deals with it so how does aws uh uh uh differences for example in the aws maturity model for various you know cloud capabilities you know let's say they've got a faster nitro or graviton does it do do you have to how does snowflake deal with that do they have to slow everything else down like imagine a caravan cruising you know across the desert so you know every truck can keep up let's listen it's a great question i mean of course our software is abstracting you know all the cloud providers you know infrastructure so that when you run in one region let's say aws or azure it doesn't make any difference as far as the applications are concerned and and this abstraction of course is a lot of work i mean really really a lot of work because it needs to be secure it needs to be performance and you know every cloud and it has you know to expose apis which are uniform and and you know cloud providers even though they have potentially the same concept let's say blob storage apis are completely different the way you know these systems are secure it's completely different the errors that you can get and and the retry you know mechanism is very different from one cloud to the other performance is also different we discovered that when we were starting to port our software and and and you know we had to completely rethink how to leverage blob storage in that cloud versus that cloud because just of performance too so we had you know for example to you know stripe data so all this work is work that's you know you don't need as an application because our vision really is that applications which are running in our data cloud can you know be abstracted of all this difference and and we provide all the services all the workload that this application need whether it's transactional access to data analytical access to data you know managing you know logs managing you know metrics all of these is abstracted too such that they are not you know tied to one you know particular service of one cloud and and distributing this application across you know many regions many cloud is very seamless so from that answer we know that snowflake takes care of everything but we really don't understand the performance implications in you know in that specific case but we feel pretty certain that the promises that snowflake makes around governance and security within their data sharing construct construct will be kept now another criterion that we've proposed for super cloud is a super pass layer to create a common developer experience and an enabler for ecosystem partners to monetize please play the clip let's listen we build it you know a custom build because because as you said you know what exists in one cloud might not exist in another cloud provider right so so we have to build you know on this all these this components that modern application mode and that application need and and and and that you know goes to machine learning as i say transactional uh analytical system and the entire thing so such that they can run in isolation basically and the objective is the developer experience will be identical across those clouds yes right the developers doesn't need to worry about cloud provider and actually our system we have we didn't talk about it but the marketplace that we have which allows actually to deliver we're getting there yeah okay now we're not going to go deep into ecosystem today we've talked about snowflakes strengths in this regard but snowflake they pretty much ticked all the boxes on our super cloud attributes and definition we asked benoit dejaville to confirm that this is all shipping and available today and he also gave us a glimpse of the future play the clip and we are still developing it you know the transactional you know unistore as we call it was announced in last summit so so they are still you know working properly but but but that's the vision right and and and that's important because we talk about the infrastructure right you mentioned a lot about storage and compute but it's not only that right when you think about application they need to use the transactional database they need to use an analytical system they need to use you know machine learning so you need to provide also all these services which are consistent across all the cloud providers so you can hear deja ville talking about expanding beyond taking advantage of the core infrastructure storage and networking et cetera and bringing intelligence to the data through machine learning and ai so of course there's more to come and there better be at this company's valuation despite the recent sharp pullback in a tightening fed environment okay so i know it's cliche but everyone's comparing snowflakes and data bricks databricks has been pretty vocal about its open source posture compared to snowflakes and it just so happens that we had aligotsy on at super cloud 22 as well he wasn't in studio he had to do remote because i guess he's presenting at an investor conference this week so we had to bring him in remotely now i didn't get to do this interview john furrier did but i listened to it and captured this clip about how data bricks sees super cloud and the importance of open source take a listen to goatzee yeah i mean let me start by saying we just we're big fans of open source we think that open source is a force in software that's going to continue for you know decades hundreds of years and it's going to slowly replace all proprietary code in its way we saw that you know it could do that with the most advanced technology windows you know proprietary operating system very complicated got replaced with linux so open source can pretty much do anything and what we're seeing with the data lake house is that slowly the open source community is building a replacement for the proprietary data warehouse you know data lake machine learning real-time stack in open source and we're excited to be part of it for us delta lake is a very important project that really helps you standardize how you lay out your data in the cloud and with it comes a really important protocol called delta sharing that enables you in an open way actually for the first time ever share large data sets between organizations but it uses an open protocol so the great thing about that is you don't need to be a database customer you don't even like databricks you just need to use this open source project and you can now securely share data sets between organizations across clouds and it actually does so really efficiently just one copy of the data so you don't have to copy it if you're within the same cloud so the implication of ellie gotzi's comments is that databricks with delta sharing as john implied is playing a long game now i don't know if enough about the databricks architecture to comment in detail i got to do more research there so i reached out to my two analyst friends tony bear and sanji mohan to see what they thought because they cover these companies pretty closely here's what tony bear said quote i've viewed the divergent lake house strategies of data bricks and snowflake in the context of their roots prior to delta lake databrick's prime focus was the compute not the storage layer and more specifically they were a compute engine not a database snowflake approached from the opposite end of the pool as they originally fit the mold of the classic database company rather than a specific compute engine per se the lake house pushes both companies outside of their original comfort zones data bricks to storage snowflake to compute engine so it makes perfect sense for databricks to embrace the open source narrative at the storage layer and for snowflake to continue its walled garden approach but in the long run their strategies are already overlapping databricks is not a 100 open source company its practitioner experience has always been proprietary and now so is its sql query engine likewise snowflake has had to open up with the support of iceberg for open data lake format the question really becomes how serious snowflake will be in making iceberg a first-class citizen in its environment that is not necessarily officially branding a lake house but effectively is and likewise can databricks deliver the service levels associated with walled gardens through a more brute force approach that relies heavily on the query engine at the end of the day those are the key requirements that will matter to data bricks and snowflake customers end quote that was some deep thought by by tony thank you for that sanjay mohan added the following quote open source is a slippery slope people buy mobile phones based on open source android but it's not fully open similarly databricks delta lake was not originally fully open source and even today its photon execution engine is not we are always going to live in a hybrid world snowflake and databricks will support whatever model works best for them and their customers the big question is do customers care as deeply about which vendor has a higher degree of openness as we technology people do i believe customers evaluation criteria is far more nuanced than just to decipher each vendor's open source claims end quote okay so i had to ask dodgeville about their so-called wall garden approach and what their strategy is with apache iceberg here's what he said iceberg is is very important so just to to give some context iceberg is an open you know table format right which was you know first you know developed by netflix and netflix you know put it open source in the apache community so we embrace that's that open source standard because because it's widely used by by many um many you know companies and also many companies have you know really invested a lot of effort in building you know big data hadoop solution or data like solution and they want to use snowflake and they couldn't really use snowflake because all their data were in open you know formats so we are embracing icebergs to help these companies move through the cloud but why we have been relentless with direct access to data direct access to data is a little bit of a problem for us and and the reason is when you direct access to data now you have direct access to storage now you have to understand for example the specificity of one cloud versus the other so as soon as you start to have direct access to data you lose your you know your cloud diagnostic layer you don't access data with api when you have direct access to data it's very hard to secure data because you need to grant access direct access to tools which are not you know protected and you see a lot of you know hacking of of data you know because of that so so that was not you know direct access to data is not serving well our customers and that's why we have been relented to do that because it's it's cr it's it's not cloud diagnostic it's it's you you have to code that you have to you you you need a lot of intelligence while apis access so we want open apis that's that's i guess the way we embrace you know openness is is by open api versus you know you access directly data here's my take snowflake is hedging its bets because enough people care about open source that they have to have some open data format options and it's good optics and you heard benoit deja ville talk about the risks of directly accessing the data and the complexities it brings now is that maybe a little fud against databricks maybe but same can be said for ollie's comments maybe flooding the proprietaryness of snowflake but as both analysts pointed out open is a spectrum hey i remember unix used to equal open systems okay let's end with some etr spending data and why not compare snowflake and data bricks spending profiles this is an xy graph with net score or spending momentum on the y-axis and pervasiveness or overlap in the data set on the x-axis this is data from the january survey when snowflake was holding above 80 percent net score off the charts databricks was also very strong in the upper 60s now let's fast forward to this next chart and show you the july etr survey data and you can see snowflake has come back down to earth now remember anything above 40 net score is highly elevated so both companies are doing well but snowflake is well off its highs and data bricks has come down somewhat as well databricks is inching to the right snowflake rocketed to the right post its ipo and as we know databricks wasn't able to get to ipo during the covet bubble ali gotzi is at the morgan stanley ceo conference this week they got plenty of cash to withstand a long-term recession i'm told and they've started the message that they're a billion dollars in annualized revenue i'm not sure exactly what that means i've seen some numbers on their gross margins i'm not sure what that means i've seen some numbers on their net retention revenue or net revenue retention again i'll reserve judgment until we see an s1 but it's clear both of these companies have momentum and they're out competing in the market well as always be the ultimate arbiter different philosophies perhaps is it like democrats and republicans well it could be but they're both going after a solving data problem both companies are trying to help customers get more value out of their data and both companies are highly valued so they have to perform for their investors to paraphrase ralph nader the similarities may be greater than the differences okay that's it for today thanks to the team from palo alto for this awesome super cloud studio build alex myerson and ken shiffman are on production in the palo alto studios today kristin martin and sheryl knight get the word out to our community rob hoff is our editor-in-chief over at siliconangle thanks to all please check out etr.ai for all the survey data remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen just search breaking analysis podcasts i publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and you can email me at david.vellante at siliconangle.com or dm me at devellante or comment on my linkedin posts and please as i say etr has got some of the best survey data in the business we track it every quarter and really excited to be partners with them this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on breaking analysis [Music] you

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody Jeff Frick here with the cube. This is a special week it's Grace Hopper week, and Grace Hopper is the best name in tech conferences. The celebration of women in computing, and we've been going there for years we're not there this year, but one of the themes that comes up over and over at Grace Hopper is women and girls need to see women in positions that they can envision themselves being in someday. That is a really important piece of the whole diversity conversation is can I see people that I can role model after and I just want to bring up something from a couple years back from 2016 when we were there, we were there with Mimi Valdez, Christina Deoja and Dr. Jeanette Epps, Dr. Jeanette Epps is the astronaut on the right. They were there talking about "The Hidden Figures" movie. If you remember it came out 2016, it was about Katherine Johnson and all the black women working at NASA. They got no credit for doing all the math that basically keep all the astronauts safe and they made a terrific movie about it. And Janet is going up on the very first Blue Origin Space Mission Next year. This was announced a couple of months ago, so again, phenomenal leadership, black lady astronaut, going to go into space and really provide a face for a lot of young girls that want to get into that and its clearly a great STEM opportunity. So we're excited to have four terrific women today that well also are the leaders that the younger women can look up to and follow their career. So we're excited to have them so we're just going to go around. We got four terrific guests, our first one is Annabel Chang, She is the Head of State Policy and Government Regulations at Waymo. Annabel great to see you, where are you coming in from today? >> from San Francisco >> Jeff: Awesome. Next up is Inamarie Johnson. She is the Chief People and Diversity Officer for Zendesk Inamarie, great to see you. Where are you calling in from today? >> Great to be here. I am calling in from Palos Verdes the state >> Jeff: awesome >> in Southern California. >> Jeff: Some of the benefits of a virtual sometimes we can, we couldn't do that without the power of the internet. And next up is Jennifer Cabalquinto she is the Chief Financial Officer of the Golden State Warriors. Jennifer, great to see you Where are you coming in from today? >> Well, I wish I was coming in from the Chase Center in San Francisco but I'm actually calling in from Santa Cruz California today. >> Jeff: Right, It's good to see you and you can surf a lot better down there. So that's probably not all bad. And finally to round out our panelists, Kate Hogan, she is the COO of North America for Accenture. Kate, great to see you as well. Where are you coming in from today? >> Well, it's good to see you too. I am coming in from the office actually in San Jose. >> Jeff: From the office in San Jose. All right, So let's get into it . You guys are all very senior, you've been doing this for a long time. We're in a kind of a crazy period of time in terms of diversity with all the kind of social unrest that's happening. So let's talk about some of your first your journeys and I want to start with you Annabel. You're a lawyer you got into lawyering. You did lawyering with Diane Feinstein, kind of some politics, and also the city of San Francisco. And then you made this move over to tech. Talk about that decision and what went into that decision and how did you get into tech? 'cause we know part of the problem with diversity is a pipeline problem. You came over from the law side of the house. >> Yes, and to be honest politics and the law are pretty homogenous. So when I made the move to tech, it was still a lot of the same, but what I knew is that I could be an attorney anywhere from Omaha Nebraska to Miami Florida. But what I couldn't do was work for a disruptive company, potentially a unicorn. And I seized that opportunity and (indistinct) Lyft early on before Ride Hailing and Ride Sharing was even a thing. So it was an exciting opportunity. And I joined right at the exact moment that made myself really meaningful in the organization. And I'm hoping that I'm doing the same thing right now at Waymo. >> Great, Inamarie you've come from one of my favorite stories I like to talk about from the old school Clorox great product management. I always like to joke that Silicon Valley needs a pipeline back to Cincinnati and Proctor and Gamble to get good product managers out here. You were in the classic, right? You were there, you were at Honeywell Plantronics, and then you jumped over to tech. Tell us a little bit about that move. Cause I'm sure selling Clorox is a lot different than selling the terrific service that you guys provide at Zendesk. I'm always happy when I see Zendesk in my customer service return email, I know I'm going to get taken care of. >> Oh wow, that's great. We love customers like you., so thank you for that. My journey is you're right from a fortune 50 sort of more portfolio type company into tech. And I think one of the reasons is because when tech is starting out and that's what Zendesk was a few five years back or so very much an early stage growth company, two things are top of mind, one, how do we become more global? And how do we make sure that we can go up market and attract enterprise grade customers? And so my experience having only been in those types of companies was very interesting for a startup. And what was interesting for me is I got to live in a world where there were great growth targets and numbers, things I had never seen. And the agility, the speed, the head plus heart really resonated with my background. So super glad to be in tech, but you're right. It's a little different than a consumer products. >> Right, and then Jennifer, you're in a completely different world, right? So you worked for the Golden State Warriors, which everybody knows is an NBA team, but I don't know that everyone knows really how progressive the Warriors are beyond just basketball in terms of the new Chase Center, all the different events that you guys put on it. And really the leadership there has decided we really want to be an entertainment company of which the Golden State Warrior basketball team has a very, very important piece, you've come from the entertainment industry. So that's probably how they found you, but you're in the financial role. You've always been in the financial role, not traditionally thought about as a lot of women in terms of a proportion of total people in that. So tell us a little bit about your experience being in finance, in entertainment, and then making this kind of hop over to, I guess Uber entertainment. I don't know even how you would classify the warriors. >> Sports entertainment, live entertainment. Yeah, it's interesting when the Warriors opportunity came up, I naturally said well no, I don't have any sports background. And it's something that we women tend to do, right? We self edit and we want to check every box before we think that we're qualified. And the reality is my background is in entertainment and the Warriors were looking to build their own venue, which has been a very large construction project. I was the CFO at Universal Studios Hollywood. And what do we do there? We build large attractions, which are just large construction projects and we're in the entertainment business. And so that sort of B to C was a natural sort of transition for me going from where I was with Universal Studios over to the Warriors. I think a finance career is such a great career for women. And I think we're finding more and more women entering it. It is one that you sort of understand your hills and valleys, you know when you're going to be busy and so you can kind of schedule around that. I think it's really... it provides that you have a seat at the table. And so I think it's a career choice that I think is becoming more and more available to women certainly more now than it was when I first started. >> Yeah, It's interesting cause I think a lot of people think of women naturally in human resources roles. My wife was a head of human resources back in the day, or a lot of marketing, but not necessarily on the finance side. And then Kate go over to you. You're one of the rare birds you've been at Accenture  for over 20 years. So you must like airplanes and travel to stay there that long. But doing a little homework for this, I saw a really interesting piece of you talking about your boss challenging you to ask for more work, to ask for a new opportunity. And I thought that was really insightful that you, you picked up on that like Oh, I guess it's incumbent on me to ask for more, not necessarily wait for that to be given to me, it sounds like a really seminal moment in your career. >> It was important but before I tell you that story, because it was an important moment of my career and probably something that a lot of the women here on the panel here can relate to as well. You mentioned airplanes and it made me think of my dad. My father was in the air force and I remember him telling stories when I was little about his career change from the air force into a career in telecommunications. So technology for me growing up Jeff was, it was kind of part of the dinner table. I mean it was just a conversation that was constantly ongoing in our house. And I also, as a young girl, I loved playing video games. We had a Tandy computer down in the basement and I remember spending too many hours playing video games down there. And so for me my history and my really at a young age, my experience and curiosity around tech was there. And so maybe that's, what's fueling my inspiration to stay at Accenture for as long as I have. And you're right It's been two decades, which feels tremendous, but I've had the chance to work across a bunch of different industries, but you're right. I mean, during that time and I relate with what Jennifer said in terms of self editing, right? Women do this and I'm no exception, I did this. And I do remember I'm a mentor and a sponsor of mine who called me up when I'm kind of I was at a pivotal moment in my career and he said you know Kate, I've been waiting for you to call me and tell me you want this job. And I never even thought about it. I mean I just never thought that I'd be a candidate for the job and let alone somebody waiting for me to kind of make the phone call. I haven't made that mistake again, (laughing) but I like to believe I learned from it, but it was an important lesson. >> It's such a great lesson and women are often accused of being a little bit too passive and not necessarily looking out for in salary negotiations or looking for that promotion or kind of stepping up to take the crappy job because that's another thing we hear over and over from successful people is that some point in their career, they took that job that nobody else wanted. They took that challenge that really enabled them to take a different path and really a different Ascension. And I'm just curious if there's any stories on that or in terms of a leader or a mentor, whether it was in the career, somebody that you either knew or didn't know that was someone that you got kind of strength from kind of climbing through your own, kind of career progression. Will go to you first Annabel. >> I actually would love to talk about the salary negotiations piece because I have a group of friends about that we've been to meeting together once a month for the last six years now. And one of the things that we committed to being very transparent with each other about was salary negotiations and signing bonuses and all of the hard topics that you kind of don't want to talk about as a manager and the women that I'm in this group with span all types of different industries. And I've learned so much from them, from my different job transitions about understanding the signing bonus, understanding equity, which is totally foreign to me coming from law and politics. And that was one of the most impactful tools that I've ever had was a group of people that I could be open with talking about salary negotiations and talking about how to really manage equity. Those are totally foreign to me up until this group of women really connected me to these topics and gave me some of that expertise. So that is something I strongly encourage is that if you haven't openly talked about salary negotiations before you should begin to do so. >> It begs the question, how was the sensitivity between the person that was making a lot of money and the person that wasn't? And how did you kind of work through that as a group for the greater good of everyone? >> Yeah, I think what's really eye opening is that for example, We had friends who were friends who were on tech, we had friends who were actually the entrepreneurs starting their own businesses or law firm, associates, law firm partners, people in PR, so we understood that there was going to be differences within industry and frankly in scale, but it was understanding even the tools, whether I think the most interesting one would be signing bonus, right? Because up until a few years ago, recruiters could ask you what you made and how do you avoid that question? How do you anchor yourself to a lower salary range or avoid that happening? I didn't know this, I didn't know how to do that. And a couple of women that had been in more senior negotiations shared ways to make sure that I was pinning myself to a higher salary range that I wanted to be in. >> That's great. That's a great story and really important to like say pin. it's a lot of logistical details, right? You just need to learn the techniques like any other skill. Inamarie, I wonder if you've got a story to share here. >> Sure. I just want to say, I love the example that you just gave because it's something I'm super passionate about, which is transparency and trust. Then I think that we're building that every day into all of our people processes. So sure, talk about sign on bonuses, talk about pay parody because that is the landscape. But a quick story for me, I would say is all about stepping into uncertainty. And when I coach younger professionals of course women, I often talk about, don't be afraid to step into the role where all of the answers are not vetted down because at the end of the day, you can influence what those answers are. I still remember when Honeywell asked me to leave the comfort of California and to come to the East coast to New Jersey and bring my family. And I was doing well in my career. I didn't feel like I needed to do that, but I was willing after some coaching to step into that uncertainty. And it was one of the best pivotal moment in my career. I didn't always know who I was going to work with. I didn't know the challenges and scope I would take on, but those were some of the biggest learning experiences and opportunities and it made me a better executive. So that's always my coaching, like go where the answers aren't quite vetted down because you can influence that as a leader. >> That's great, I mean, Beth Comstock former vice chair at GE, one of her keynotes I saw had a great line, get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And I think that its a really good kind of message, especially in the time we're living in with accelerated change. But I'm curious, Inamarie was the person that got you to take that commitment. Would you consider that a sponsor, a mentor, was it a boss? Was it maybe somebody not at work, your spouse or a friend that said go for it. What kind of pushed you over the edge to take that? >> It's a great question. It was actually the boss I was going to work for. He was the CHRO, and he said something that was so important to me that I've often said it to others. And he said trust me, he's like I know you don't have all the answers, I know we don't have this role all figured out, I know you're going to move your family, but if you trust me, there is a ton of learning on the other side of this. And sometimes that's the best thing a boss can do is say we will go on this journey together. I will help you figure it out. So it was a boss, but I think it was that trust and that willingness for him to stand and go alongside of me that made me pick up my family and be willing to move across the country. And we stayed five years and really, I am not the same executive because of that experience. >> Right, that's a great story, Jennifer, I want to go to you, you work for two owners that are so progressive and I remember when Joe Lacob came on the floor a few years back and was booed aggressively coming into a franchise that hadn't seen success in a very long time, making really aggressive moves in terms of personnel, both at the coaches and the players level, the GM level. But he had a vision and he stuck to it. And the net net was tremendous success. I wonder if you can share any of the stories, for you coming into that organization and being able to feel kind of that level of potential success and really kind of the vision and also really a focus on execution to make the vision real cause vision without execution doesn't really mean much. If you could share some stories of working for somebody like Joe Lacob, who's so visionary but also executes so very, very effectively. >> Yeah, Joe is, well I have the honor of working for Joe, for Rick Welts to who's our president. Who's living legend with the NBA with Peter Guber. Our leadership at the Warriors are truly visionary and they set audacious targets. And I would say from a story the most recent is, right now what we're living through today. And I will say Joe will not accept that we are not having games with fans. I agree he is so committed to trying to solve for this and he has really put the organization sort of on his back cause we're all like well, what do we do? And he has just refused to settle and is looking down every path as to how do we ensure the safety of our fans, the safety of our players, but how do we get back to live entertainment? And this is like a daily mantra and now the entire organization is so focused on this and it is because of his vision. And I think you need leaders like that who can set audacious goals, who can think beyond what's happening today and really energize the entire organization. And that's really what he's done. And when I talked to my peers and other teams in there they're talking about trying to close out their season or do these things. And they're like well, we're talking about, how do we open the building? And we're going to have fans, we're going to do this. And they look at me and they're like, what are you talking about? And I said, well we are so fortunate. We have leadership that just is not going to settle. Like they are just always looking to get out of whatever it is that's happening and fix it. So Joe is so committed His background, he's an epidemiologist major I think. Can you imagine how unique a background that is and how timely. And so his knowledge of just around the pandemic and how the virus is spread. And I mean it's phenomenal to watch him work and leverage sort of his business acumen, his science acumen and really think through how do we solve this. Its amazing. >> The other thing thing that you had said before is that you basically intentionally told people that they need to rethink their jobs, right? You didn't necessarily want to give them permission to get you told them we need to rethink their jobs. And it's a really interesting approach when the main business is just not happening, right? There's just no people coming through the door and paying for tickets and buying beers and hotdogs. It's a really interesting talk. And I'm curious, kind of what was the reception from the people like hey, you're the boss, you just figure it out or were they like hey, this is terrific that he pressed me to come up with some good ideas. >> Yeah, I think when all of this happened, we were resolved to make sure that our workforce is safe and that they had the tools that they needed to get through their day. But then we really challenged them with re imagining what the next normal is. Because when we come out of this, we want to be ahead of everybody else. And that comes again from the vision that Joe set, that we're going to use this time to make ourselves better internally because we have the time. I mean, we had been racing towards opening Chase Center and not having time to pause. Now let's use this time to really rethink how we're doing business. What can we do better? And I think it's really reinvigorated teams to really think and innovate in their own areas because you can innovate anything, right?. We're innovating how you pay payables, we're all innovating, we're rethinking the fan experience and queuing and lines and all of these things because now we have the time that it's really something that top down we want to come out of this stronger. >> Right, that's great. Kate I'll go to you, Julie Sweet, I'm a big fan of Julie Sweet. we went to the same school so go go Claremont. But she's been super aggressive lately on a lot of these things, there was a get to... I think it's called Getting to 50 50 by 25 initiative, a formal initiative with very specific goals and objectives. And then there was a recent thing in terms of doing some stuff in New York with retraining. And then as you said, military being close to your heart, a real specific military recruiting process, that's formal and in place. And when you see that type of leadership and formal programs put in place not just words, really encouraging, really inspirational, and that's how you actually get stuff done as you get even the consulting businesses, if you can't measure it, you can't improve it. >> Yeah Jeff, you're exactly right. And as Jennifer was talking, Julie is exactly who I was thinking about in my mind as well, because I think it takes strong leadership and courage to set bold bold goals, right? And you talked about a few of those bold goals and Julie has certainly been at the forefront of that. One of the goals we set in 2018 actually was as you said to achieve essentially a gender balance workforce. So 50% men, 50% women by 2025, I mean, that's ambitious for any company, but for us at the time we were 400,000 people. They were 500, 6,000 globally. So when you set a goal like that, it's a bold goal and it's a bold vision. And we have over 40% today, We're well on our path to get to 50%, I think by 2025. And I was really proud to share that goal in front of a group of 200 clients the day that it came out, it's a proud moment. And I think it takes leaders like Julie and many others by the way that are also setting bold goals, not just in my company to turn the dial here on gender equality in the workforce, but it's not just about gender equality. You mentioned something I think it's probably at as, or more important right now. And that's the fact that at least our leadership has taken a Stand, a pretty bold stand against social injustice and racism, >> Right which is... >> And so through that we've made some very transparent goals in North America in terms of the recruitment and retention of our black African American, Hispanic American, Latinex communities. We've set a goal to increase those populations in our workforce by 60% by 2025. And we're requiring mandatory training for all of our people to be able to identify and speak up against racism. Again, it takes courage and it takes a voice. And I think it takes setting bold goals to make a change and these are changes we're committed to. >> Right, that's terrific. I mean, we started the conversation with Grace Hopper, they put out an index for companies that don't have their own kind of internal measure to do surveys again so you can get kind of longitudinal studies over time and see how you're improving Inamarie, I want to go to you on the social justice thing. I mean, you've talked a lot about values and culture. It's a huge part of what you say. And I think that the quote that you use, if I can steal it is " no culture eats strategy for breakfast" and with the social injustice. I mean, you came out with special values just about what Zendesk is doing on social injustice. And I thought I was actually looking up just your regular core mission and value statement. And this is what came up on my Google search. So I wanted to A, you published this in a blog in June, taking a really proactive stand. And I think you mentioned something before that, but then you're kind of stuck in this role as a mind reader. I wonder if you can share a little bit of your thoughts of taking a proactive stand and what Zendesk is doing both you personally, as well as a company in supporting this. And then what did you say as a binder Cause I think these are difficult kind of uncharted waters on one hand, on the other hand, a lot of people say, hello, this has been going on forever. You guys are just now seeing cellphone footage of madness. >> Yeah Wow, there's a lot in there. Let me go to the mind reader comments, cause people are probably like, what is that about? My point was last December, November timing. I've been the Chief People Officer for about two years And I decided that it really was time with support from my CEO that Zendesk have a Chief Diversity Officer sitting in at the top of the company, really putting a face to a lot of the efforts we were doing. And so the mind reader part comes in little did I know how important that stance would become, in the may June Timing? So I joked that, it almost felt like I could have been a mind reader, but as to what have we done, a couple of things I would call out that I think are really aligned with who we are as a company because our culture is highly threaded with the concept of empathy it's been there from our beginning. We have always tried to be a company that walks in the shoes of our customers. So in may with the death of George Floyd and the world kind of snapping and all of the racial injustice, what we said is we wanted to not stay silent. And so most of my postings and points of view were that as a company, we would take a stand both internally and externally and we would also partner with other companies and organizations that are doing the big work. And I think that is the humble part of it, we can't do it all at Zendesk, we can't write all the wrongs, but we can be in partnership and service with other organizations. So we used funding and we supported those organizations and partnerships. The other thing that I would say we did that was super important along that empathy is that we posted space for our employees to come together and talk about the hurt and the pain and the experiences that were going on during those times and we called those empathy circles. And what I loved is initially, it was through our mosaic community, which is what we call our Brown and black and persons of color employee resource group. But it grew into something bigger. We ended up doing five of these empathy circles around the globe and as leadership, what we were there to do is to listen and stand as an ally and support. And the stories were life changing. And the stories really talked about a number of injustice and racism aspects that are happening around the world. And so we are committed to that journey, we will continue to support our employees, we will continue to partner and we're doing a number of the things that have been mentioned. But those empathy circles, I think were definitely a turning point for us as an organization. >> That's great, and people need it right? They need a place to talk and they also need a place to listen if it's not their experience and to be empathetic, if you just have no data or no knowledge of something, you need to be educated So that is phenomenal. I want to go to you Jennifer. Cause obviously the NBA has been very, very progressive on this topic both as a league, and then of course the Warriors. We were joking before. I mean, I don't think Steph Curry has ever had a verbal misstep in the history of his time in the NBA, the guy so eloquent and so well-spoken, but I wonder if you can share kind of inside the inner circle in terms of the conversations, that the NBA enabled right. For everything from the jerseys and going out on marches and then also from the team level, how did that kind of come down and what's of the perception inside the building? >> Sure, obviously I'm so proud to be part of a league that is as progressive and has given voice and loud, all the teams, all the athletes to express how they feel, The Warriors have always been committed to creating a diverse and equitable workplace and being part of a diverse and equitable community. I mean that's something that we've always said, but I think the situation really allowed us, over the summer to come up with a real formal response, aligning ourselves with the Black Lives Matter movement in a really meaningful way, but also in a way that allows us to iterate because as you say, it's evolving and we're learning. So we created or discussed four pillars that we wanted to work around. And that was really around wallet, heart, beat, and then tongue or voice. And Wallet is really around putting our money where our mouth is, right? And supporting organizations and groups that aligned with the values that we were trying to move forward. Heart is around engaging our employees and our fan base really, right? And so during this time we actually launched our employee resource groups for the first time and really excited and energized about what that's doing for our workforce. This is about promoting real action, civic engagement, advocacy work in the community and what we've always been really focused in a community, but this really hones it around areas that we can all rally around, right? So registration and we're really focused on supporting the election day results in terms of like having our facilities open to all the electorate. So we're going to have our San Francisco arena be a ballot drop off, our Oakland facilities is a polling site, Santa Cruz site is also a polling location, So really promoting sort of that civic engagement and causing people to really take action. heart is all around being inclusive and developing that culture that we think is really reflective of the community. And voice is really amplifying and celebrating one, the ideas, the (indistinct) want to put forth in the community, but really understanding everybody's culture and really just providing and using the platform really to provide a basis in which as our players, like Steph Curry and the rest want to share their own experiences. we have a platform that can't be matched by any pedigree, right? I mean, it's the Warriors. So I think really getting focused and rallying around these pillars, and then we can iterate and continue to grow as we define the things that we want to get involved in. >> That's terrific. So I have like pages and pages and pages of notes and could probably do this for hours and hours, but unfortunately we don't have that much time we have to wrap. So what I want to do is give you each of you the last word again as we know from this problem, right? It's not necessarily a pipeline problem, it's really a retention problem. We hear that all the time from Girls in Code and Girls in Tech. So what I'd like you to do just to wrap is just a couple of two or three sentences to a 25 year old, a young woman sitting across from you having coffee socially distanced about what you would tell her early in the career, not in college but kind of early on, what would the be the two or three sentences that you would share with that person across the table and Annabel, we'll start with you. >> Yeah, I will have to make a pitch for transportation. So in transportation only 15% of the workforce is made up of women. And so my advice would be that there are these fields, there are these opportunities where you can make a massive impact on the future of how people move or how they consume things or how they interact with the world around them. And my hope is that being at Waymo, with our self driving car technology, that we are going to change the world. And I am one of the initial people in this group to help make that happen. And one thing that I would add is women spend almost an hour a day, shuttling their kids around, and we will give you back that time one day with our self driving cars so that I'm a mom. And I know that that is going to be incredibly powerful on our daily lives. >> Jeff: That's great. Kate, I think I might know what you're already going to say, but well maybe you have something else you wanted to say too. >> I don't know, It'll be interesting. Like if I was sitting across the table from a 25 year old right now I would say a couple of things first I'd say look intentionally for a company that has an inclusive culture. Intentionally seek out the company that has an inclusive culture, because we know that companies that have inclusive cultures retain women in tech longer. And the companies that can build inclusive cultures will retain women in tech, double, double the amount that they are today in the next 10 years. That means we could put another 1.4 million women in tech and keep them in tech by 2030. So I'd really encourage them to look for that. I'd encouraged them to look for companies that have support network and reinforcements for their success, and to obviously find a Waymo car so that they can not have to worry where kids are on for an hour when you're parenting in a few years. >> Jeff: I love the intentional, it's such a great word. Inamarie, >> I'd like to imagine that I'm sitting across from a 25 year old woman of color. And what I would say is be authentically you and know that you belong in the organization that you are seeking and you were there because you have a unique perspective and a voice that needs to be heard. And don't try to be anything that you're not, be who you are and bring that voice and that perspective, because the company will be a better company, the management team will be a better management team, the workforce will be a better workforce when you belong, thrive and share that voice. >> I love that, I love that. That's why you're the Chief People Officer and not Human Resources Officer, cause people are not resources like steel and cars and this and that. All right, Jennifer, will go to you for the wrap. >> Oh my gosh, I can't follow that. But yes, I would say advocate for yourself and know your value. I think really understanding what you're worth and being willing to fight for that is critical. And I think it's something that women need to do more. >> Awesome, well again, I wish we could go all day, but I will let you get back to your very, very busy day jobs. Thank you for participating and sharing your insight. I think it's super helpful. And there and as we said at the beginning, there's no better example for young girls and young women than to see people like you in leadership roles and to hear your voices. So thank you for sharing. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Okay thank you. >> Thank you >> All right, so that was our diversity panel. I hope you enjoyed it, I sure did. I'm looking forward to chapter two. We'll get it scheduled as soon as we can. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> from Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering M I T. Chief data officer and information quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >> Welcome back to M I. T. In Cambridge, Massachusetts. Everybody. You're watching the cube. The leader in live tech coverage. This is M I t CDO I Q the chief data officer and information quality conference. Someday Volonte with my co host, Paul Galen. Professor Dr Stewart, Mad Nick is here. Longtime Cube alum. Ah, long time professor at M i. T soon to be retired, but we're really grateful that you're taking your time toe. Come on. The Cube is great to see you again. >> It's great to see you again. It's been a long time. She worked together and I really appreciate the opportunity to share our spirits. Hear our mighty with your audience. Well, it's really been fun >> to watch this conference evolved were full and it's really amazing. We have to move to a new venue >> next year. I >> understand. And data we talk about the date explosion all the time, But one of the areas that you're focused on and you're gonna talk about today is his ethics and privacy and data causes so many concerns in those two areas. But so give us the highlight of what you're gonna discuss with the audience today. We'll get into >> one of things that makes it so challenging. It is. Data has so many implications. Tow it. And that's why the issue of ethics is so hard to get people to reach agreement on it. We're talking people regarding medicine and the idea big data and a I so know, to be able to really identify causes you need mass amounts of data. That means more data has to be made available as long as it's Elsa data, not mine. Well, not my backyard. If he really So you have this issue where on the one hand, people are concerned about sharing the data. On the other hand, there's so many valuable things would gain by sharing data and getting people to reach agreement is a challenge. Well, one of things >> I wanted to explore with you is how things have changed you back in the day very familiar with Paul you as well with Microsoft, Department of Justice, justice, FTC issues regarding Microsoft. And it wasn't so much around data was really around browsers and bundling things today. But today you see Facebook and Google Amazon coming under fire, and it's largely data related. Listen, Liz Warren, last night again break up big tech your thoughts on similarities and differences between sort of the monopolies of yesterday and the data monopolies of today Should they be broken up? What do you thought? So >> let me broaden the issue a little bit more from Maryland, and I don't know how the demographics of the audience. But I often refer to the characteristics that millennials the millennials in general. I ask my students this question here. Now, how many of you have a Facebook account in almost every class? Facebook. You realize you've given away a lot of nation about yourself. It it doesn't really occurred to them. That may be an issue. I was told by someone that in some countries, Facebook is very popular. That's how they cordoned the kidnappings of teenagers from rich families. They track them. They know they're going to go to this basketball game of the soccer match. You know exactly what I'm going after it. That's the perfect spot to kidnap them, so I don't know whether students think about the fact that when they're putting things on Facebook than making so much of their life at risk. On the other hand, it makes their life richer, more enjoyable. And so that's why these things are so challenging now, getting back to the issue of the break up of the big tech companies. One of the big challenges there is that in order to do the great things that big data has been doing and the things that a I promises do you need lots of data. Having organizations that can gather it all together in a relatively systematic and consistent manner is so valuable breaking up the tech companies. And there's some reasons why people want to do that, but also interferes with that benefit. And that's why I think it's gonna be looked at real Kim, please, to see not only what game maybe maybe breaking up also what losses of disadvantages we're creating >> for ourselves so example might be, perhaps it makes United States less competitive. Visa VI China, in the area of machine intelligence, is one example. The flip side of that is, you know Facebook has every incentive to appropriate our data to sell ads. So it's not an easy, you know, equation. >> Well, even ads are a funny situation for some people having a product called to your attention that something actually really want. But you never knew it before could be viewed as a feature, right? So, you know, in some case of the ads, could be viewed as a feature by some people. And, of course, a bit of intrusion by other people. Well, sometimes we use the search. Google, right? Looking >> for the ad on the side. No longer. It's all ads. You know >> it. I wonder if you see public public sentiment changing in this respect. There's a lot of concerns, certainly at the legislative level now about misuse of data. But Facebook user ship is not going down. Instagram membership is not going down. Uh, indication is that that ordinary citizens don't really care. >> I know that. That's been my I don't have all the data. Maybe you may have seen, but just anecdotally and talking to people in the work we're doing, I agree with you. I think most people maybe a bit dramatic, but at a conference once and someone made a comment that there has not been the digital Pearl Harbor yet. No, there's not been some event that was just so onerous. Is so all by the people. Remember the day it happened kind of thing. And so these things happen and maybe a little bit of press coverage and you're back on your Facebook. How their instagram account the next day. Nothing is really dramatic. Individuals may change now and then, but I don't see massive changes. But >> you had the Equifax hack two years ago. 145,000,000 records. Capital one. Just this week. 100,000,000 records. I mean, that seems pretty Pearl Harbor ish to me. >> Well, it's funny way we're talking about that earlier today regarding different parts of the world. I think in Europe, the general, they really seem to care about privacy. United States that kind of care about privacy in China. They know they have no privacy. But even in us where they care about privacy, exactly how much they care about it is really an issue. And in general it's not enough to move the needle. If it does, it moves it a little bit about the time when they show that smart TVs could be broken into smart. See, TV sales did not Dutch an inch. Not much help people even remember that big scandal a year ago. >> Well, now, to your point about expects, I mean, just this week, I think Equifax came out with a website. Well, you could check whether or not your credentials were. >> It's a new product. We're where we're compromised. And enough in what has been >> as head mind, I said, My wife says it's too. So you had a choice, you know, free monitoring or $125. So that way went okay. Now what? You know, life goes >> on. It doesn't seem like anything really changes. And we were talking earlier about your 1972 book about cyber security, that many of the principles and you outlined in that book are still valid today. Why are we not making more progress against cybercriminals? >> Well, two things. One thing is you gotta realize, as I said before, the Cave man had no privacy problems and no break in problems. But I'm not sure any of us want to go back to caveman era because you've got to realize that for all these bad things. There's so many good things that are happening, things you could now do, which a smartphone you couldn't even visualize doing a decade or two ago. So there's so much excitement, so much for momentum, autonomous cars and so on and so on that these minor bumps in the road are easy to ignore in the enthusiasm and excitement. >> Well and now, as we head into 2020 affection it was. It was fake news in 2016. Now we've got deep fakes. Get the ability to really use video in new ways. Do you see a way out of that problem? A lot of people looking a Blockchain You wrote an article recently, and Blockchain you think it's on hackable? Well, think again. >> What are you seeing? I think one of things we always talk about when we talk about improving privacy and security and organizations, the first thing is awareness. Most people are really small moment of time, aware that there's an issue and it quickly pass in the mind. The analogy I use regarding industrial safety. You go into almost any factory. You'll see a sign over the door every day that says 520 days, his last industrial accident and then a sub line. Please do not be the one to reset it this year. And I often say, When's the last time you went to a data center? And so assign is at 50 milliseconds his last cyber data breach. And so it needs to be something that is really front, the mind and people. And we talk about how to make awareness activities over companies and host household. And that's one of our major movements here is trying to be more aware because we're not aware that you're putting things at risk. You're not gonna do anything about it. >> Last year we contacted Silicon Angle, 22 leading security experts best in one simple question. Are we winning or losing the war against cybercriminals? Unanimously, they said, we're losing. What is your opinion of that question? >> I have a great quote I like to use. The good news is the good guys are getting better than a firewall of cryptographic codes. But the bad guys are getting batter faster, and there's a lot of reasons for that well on all of them. But we came out with a nautical talking about the docking Web, and the reason why it's fascinating is if you go to most companies if they've suffered a data breach or a cyber attack, they'll be very reluctant to say much about unless they really compelled to do so on the dock, where they love to Brent and reputation. I'm the one who broke in the Capital One. And so there's much more information sharing that much more organized, a much more disciplined. I mean, the criminal ecosystem is so much more superior than the chaotic mess we have here on the good guys side of the table. >> Do you see any hope for that? There are service's. IBM has one, and there are others in a sort of anonymous eyes. Security data enable organizations to share sensitive information without risk to their company. You see any hope on the collaboration, Front >> said before the good guys are getting better. The trouble is, at first I thought there was an issue that was enough sharing going on. It turns out we identified over 120 sharing organizations. That's the good news. And the bad news is 120. So IBM is one and another 119 more to go. So it's not a very well coordinated sharing. It's going just one example. The challenges Do I see any hope in the future? Well, in the more distant future, because the challenge we have is that there'll be a cyber attack next week of some form or shape that we've never seen before and therefore what? Probably not well prepared for it. At some point, I'll no longer be able to say that, but I think the cyber attackers and creatures and so on are so creative. They've got another decade of more to go before they run out of >> Steve. We've got from hacktivists to organized crime now nation states, and you start thinking about the future of war. I was talking to Robert Gates, aboutthe former defense secretary, and my question was, Why don't we have the best cyber? Can't we go in the oven? It goes, Yeah, but we also have the most to lose our critical infrastructure, and the value of that to our society is much greater than some of our adversaries. So we have to be very careful. It's kind of mind boggling to think autonomous vehicles is another one. I know that you have some visibility on that. And you were saying that technical challenges of actually achieving quality autonomous vehicles are so daunting that security is getting pushed to the back burner. >> And if the irony is, I had a conversation. I was a visiting professor, sir, at the University of Niece about a 12 14 years ago. And that's before time of vehicles are not what they were doing. Big automotive tele metrics. And I realized at that time that security wasn't really our top priority. I happen to visit organization, doing really Thomas vehicles now, 14 years later, and this conversation is almost identical now. The problems we're trying to solve. A hider problem that 40 years ago, much more challenging problems. And as a result, those problems dominate their mindset and security issues kind of, you know, we'll get around him if we can't get the cot a ride correctly. Why worry about security? >> Well, what about the ethics of autonomous vehicles? Way talking about your programming? You know, if you're gonna hit a baby or a woman or kill your passengers and yourself, what do you tell the machine to Dio, that is, it seems like an unsolvable problem. >> Well, I'm an engineer by training, and possibly many people in the audience are, too. I'm the kind of person likes nice, clear, clean answers. Two plus two is four, not 3.94 point one. That's the school up the street. They deal with that. The trouble with ethic issues is they don't tend to have a nice, clean answer. Almost every study we've done that has these kind of issues on it. And we have people vote almost always have spread across the board because you know any one of these is a bad decision. So which the bad decision is least bad. Like, what's an example that you used the example I use in my class, and we've been using that for well over a year now in class, I teach on ethics. Is you out of the design of an autonomous vehicle, so you must program it to do everything and particular case you have is your in the vehicle. It's driving around the mountain and Swiss Alps. You go around a corner and the vehicle, using all of senses, realize that straight ahead on the right? Ian Lane is a woman in a baby carriage pushing on to this onto the left, just entering the garage way a three gentlemen, both sides a road have concrete barriers so you can stay on your path. Hit the woman the baby carriage via to the left. Hit the three men. Take a shop, right or shot left. Hit the concrete wall and kill yourself. And trouble is, every one of those is unappealing. Imagine the headline kills woman and baby. That's not a very good thing. There actually is a theory of ethics called utility theory that says, better to say three people than to one. So definitely doing on Kim on a kill three men, that's the worst. And then the idea of hitting the concrete wall may feel magnanimous. I'm just killing myself. But as a design of the car, shouldn't your number one duty be to protect the owner of the car? And so people basically do. They close their eyes and flip a coin because they don't want anyone. Those hands, >> not an algorithmic >> response, doesn't leave. >> I want to come back for weeks before we close here to the subject of this conference. Exactly. You've been involved with this conference since the very beginning. How have you seen the conversation changed since that time? >> I think I think it's changing to Wei first. As you know, this record breaking a group of people are expecting here. Close to 500 I think have registered s o much Clea grown kind of over the years, but also the extent to which, whether it was called big data or call a I now whatever is something that was kind of not quite on the radar when we started, I think it's all 15 years ago. He first started the conference series so clearly has become something that is not just something We talk about it in the academic world but is becoming main stay business for corporations Maur and Maur. And I think it's just gonna keep increasing. I think so much of our society so much of business is so dependent on the data in any way, shape or form that we use it and have >> it well, it's come full circle. It's policy and I were talking at are open. This conference kind of emerged from the ashes of the back office information quality and you say the big date and now a I guess what? It's all coming back to information. >> Lots of data. That's no good. Or that you don't understand what they do with this. Not very healthy. >> Well, doctor Magic. Thank you so much. It's a >> relief for all these years. Really Wanna thank you. Thank you, guys, for joining us and helping to spread the word. Thank you. Pleasure. All right, keep it right, everybody. Paul and >> I will be back at M I t cdo right after this short break. You're watching the cue.

>> Announcer: Live from Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, it's theCUBE! Covering Women In Data Science Conference 2018. Brought to you by-- >> Coverage of Women in Data Science 2018. I am Lisa Martin. We're at Stanford University. This is where the big in-person event is, but there are more than 177 regional WiDS events going on around the globe today. They are in 53 countries, and they're actually expecting to have about 100,000 people engaged with WiDS 2018. Pretty awesome. I'm joined by one of the speakers for WiDS 2018, Dawn Woodard, the senior data science manager of maps at Uber. Welcome to theCUBE! >> Thank you so much, Lisa. >> It's exciting to have you here. This is your first WiDS, and you are already a speaker. Tell us a little bit about what attracted you to WiDS. What was it that kind of spoke to you as a female leader in data science? >> Well, I tried to do a fair amount of reach-out to women in data science. I really feel like I've been blessed throughout my career with inspiring female mentors, including my mother, for example. Not every woman comes into her career with that kind of mentorship, so I really wanted to reach out and help provide that to some of the younger folks in our community. >> That's fantastic. One of the things that's remarkable about WiDS, one, is the growth and scale that they've achieved reaching such big, broad audiences in such a short time period. But it's also from a thematic perspective, aiming to inspire and to educate data scientists worldwide, and of course, to support females in that. What are some of the, tell us a little bit about your talk is Dynamic Pricing and Matching in Ride Sharing. What are some of the takeaways that the audience watching the livestream and here in person are going to hear from your talk? >> There are two technical takeaways, and then there's one non-technical takeaway. The first technical takeaway is that the matching algorithms that we use are really designed to reduce the amount of time that riders and drivers have to spend waiting in the app. For drivers, that means that we're working to increase the amount of time that they spend on-trip and getting paid. For riders, that means that we're reducing the amount of time that they have to wait to be picked up by a car. That's the first takeaway. The second takeaway is around dynamic pricing, and why it's important in ride-hailing services in particular. It turns out that it's really important in creating a seamless and reliable experience, both for riders and for drivers, so I talk through the technical reasons for that. Interestingly, these technical arguments are based not just on machine learning and statistics, but also on economic analyses and some optimization concepts. The third takeaway is really that data science is this incredibly interdisciplinary environment in which we have economics, statistics, optimization, machine learning, and more. >> It's really, data sciences has the opportunity, or really is, very horizontal. Every sector, every area of our lives is impacted by it. I mean, we think of all of us that use Uber and ride-sharing apps. I think that's one of the neat things that we're hearing from the event and from the speakers like yourself is these demarcated lines of career paths are blurring, or some of 'em are evaporating. And so, I think having the opportunity to talk to the younger generation, showing them how much impact they can make in this field has got to sort of be maybe, I would even guess, invigorating for you, as someone who's been in the tech in both industry and academia for a while. >> Absolutely. I think about data science as being the way that we learn about the world, statistics and data science. So, how do we use data to learn about the world, and how do we use data to improve, to make great products, to make great apps, for example. >> Exactly. Tell me a little bit about your career path. You have your PhD in statistics from Duke University. Tell me about how you got there, and then how you also got into industry. Were you always a STEM fan as a kid, or was it something that you had a passion for early on, or developed over time? >> I was always passionate about math and science. When I was an undergraduate, I did an internship with a defense contractor. That's how I got interested in machine learning in particular. That's where it took off. I decided to get a PhD in statistics from there. Statistics and machine learning are really closely related. And then, continued down that path throughout my academic career, and now my career in tech. >> What are some of the things that you think that prepared you for a being a female leader? Was it those mentors that you mentioned before? Was it the fact that you just had a passion for it and thought, "If I'm one of the only females in the room, I don't care. "This is something that's interesting to me." What were some of those foundational elements that really guided you? >> One is the inspiration of some women in my life, and if we have to be completely honest, I'm a person who, when, the very rare times in my career when somebody has acted like I couldn't hack it or couldn't make it, it always really got me angry. The way that I channeled that was really to turn it around and to say, "No problem. "I'm going to show you that I can go well beyond "anything that you had conceived of." >> You know, I love that you said that, 'cause Margot Gerritsen, one of the founders of WiDS actually said a couple hours ago, a few years ago, when they had this idea, from concept to first conference was six months, and she said she almost thought of it like a revenge conference. Like, "We can do this!" I think it's kind of, when they had this idea in 2015, the fact that even in 2015, there's still not only demand for, but the demand is growing. As we're seeing, the statistics that show a low percentage of women that have degrees in engineering, I want to say 20%, but only 11% of them are actually working in their field. We still have a lot of work to do to ignite the fire in this next generation of prospective leaders in technology. There's still a lot of groundwork to make up there. I think we're hearing that a lot at WiDS. Are you hearing that in your peer groups as well? >> Absolutely. I think one of the things that I've really focused on is mentoring women as leaders and managers within my organization, and I really find that that's an amazing way to reach out, is not just to reach out myself, but also to do that through female leaders in my own organization. For example, I've mentored and managed two women through the transition from individual contributor to manager. Just watching their trajectory afterwards is incredibly inspiring. But then, of course, those female managers bring in additional female contributors, and it grows from there. >> Right. And you have a pretty good, pretty diverse team at Uber. Tell us a little bit about your rise at Uber. One of the things that I saw on your LinkedIn profile, that you achieved pretty quickly in the first three years, or probably less, was that you led the marketplace data science team through a period of transformative growth. You started that team with 10 data scientists, and by the time you transitioned into your next role, there were 49 data scientists, including seven managers. How were you able to come in and make such a big impact so quickly? >> Well, the whole team chipped in in terms of hiring and reaching out. But at the time when I joined Uber, data science was still relatively small. Those 10 people were being asked to do all of the pricing and matching algorithms, all of the data science for Uber Pool, all of the data science for Uber Eats. We just had one person in each of these areas, and those people very quickly stepped up to the plate and said, "Okay, I need help." We worked together to help grow their teams. It's really a collaborative effort involving the whole team. >> The current team that you're managing, what does that look like from a male/female ratio standpoint? >> The current team is more than 50% female at this point, which is something that I'm really proud of. It's definitely not only my achievement. There was a manager who was leading the team just before I switched to leading maps, and that person also helped increase the presence of women in data science for Uber's mapping organization. The first data scientist on maps at Uber was a woman, actually. >> That's fantastic. And you were saying before we went live that there's a good-sized contingent of women data scientists at Uber today that are participating in WiDS up in San Francisco? >> That's right, yes. We're live-streaming it. There's a Women in Data Science organization at Uber, and that organization is sponsoring the internal events for the live stream, not just for my talk, but really, the whole conference. >> That's one of the things that Margot Gerritsen was also saying, that from a timing perspective, they really knew they were on to something pretty quickly, and being able to take advantage of technology, live streaming, they're also doing it on Facebook, gives them that opportunity to reach a bigger audience. It also is, for you and your peers as speakers, gives you an even bigger platform to be able to reach that audience. But one of the things I find interesting about WiDS is it's not just the younger audience. Like Maria Klawe had said in her opening remarks this morning and before, that the optimal time that she's found of reaching women to get them interested in STEM subjects is first year college, first semester of college. I actually had the same exact experience many years ago, and I didn't realize that was a timing that was actually proven to be the most successful. But it's not just young women at that stage of their university career. It's also those who've been in tech, academia, and industry for a while who, we're hearing, are feeling invigorated by events like WiDS. Do you feel the same? Is this something that just sort of turns up that bunsen burner maybe a little bit higher? >> Oh, it's incredibly empowering to be in a room full of such technically powerful women. It's a wonderful opportunity. >> It really is, and I think that reinvigoration is key. Some of the things like, as we look at what you've already achieved at Uber so far, and we're in 2018, what are some of the things that you're looking forward to your team helping to impact for Uber in 2018? >> In 2018, we're looking to magnify the impact of data science within Uber's mapping organization, which is my main focus right now. Maps at Uber does several things. Think of Uber as being a physical logistics platform. We move people and things from point A to point B. Maps, as our physical world, really impacts every aspect of the user experience, both for riders and for drivers. And then, whenever we're making a dispatch decision or a pricing decision, we need to know something about how long it would take this driver to get to this rider, for example, which is really a mapping prediction. We are looking at increasing the presence of data science within the mapping organization, really bringing that perspective to the table, both at the individual contributor level, but really also growing leadership of data science within the mapping organization so that we can help drive the direction of maps at Uber through data-driven insights. >> Data-driven insights, I'm glad that you brought that up. That's something that, as we talk about data science. Data science is helping to make decisions on policy, healthcare, so many different things, you name it. It really seems like these blurred lines of job categories, as businesses use data science, and even Uber, to extend, grow the business, open new business models, so can the next generation leverage data science to just open up this infinite box, if you will, of careers that they can go into and industries they can impact by having this foundation of data science. >> Absolutely. Well, any time we have to make a decision about what direction we go in, right, as a business, for example, as an organization, then doing that starting from data, understanding what is the world really like, what are the opportunities, what are the places in which we as a company are not doing very well, for example, and can make a simple change and get an incredible impact? Those are incredibly powerful insights. What do you think, last question-ish, 'cause we're getting low on time. We talk a lot about, there's the hard skills/soft skills. Soft is kind of a weird word these days to describe that. You know, statistical analysis, data mining. But there's also this, the softer skills, empathy, things like that. How do you find those two sides, maybe it's right brain/left brain, as being essential for people to become well-rounded data scientists? >> The couple of soft skills that I really look for heavily when I'm hiring a data scientist, one is being really focused on impact, as opposed to focused on building a new shiny thing. That's quite a different approach to the world, and if we stay focused on the product that we're creating, that means that we're willing to chip in, even if the work that's being done is not as glamorous, or is not going to get as much attention, or is not as fancy of a model. We can really stay focused on what are some simple approaches that we can use that can really drive the product forward. That kind of impact focus, and also, that great attitude about being willing to chip in on something, even if it's not that fancy or if I'm not going to get in the limelight for doing this. Those are the kinds of soft skills that really are so critical for us. >> Attitude and impact. I've heard impact a number of times today. Dawn, thank you so much for carving out some time to chat with us on theCUBE. We congratulate you on being a speaker at this year's event, and look forward to talking to you next year. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE. We are live at Stanford for the third annual Women in Data Science Conference, hashtag #WiDS2018. Get involved in the conversation. It is happening in over 53 countries. After this short break, I will be right back with my next guest. (fast electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, DC, it's CUBEConversations with John Furrier. (techy music playing) >> Welcome back everyone, here to a special CUBEConversation in Washington, DC. We're actually in Arlington, Virginia, at Amazon Web Services Public Sector Headquarters. We're here with Sri Vasireddy, who is with REAN Cloud and recently won a big award for $950 million for the Department of Defense contract to partner with Amazon Web Services, really kind of changing the game in the cloud space with Amazon, among other partners. Thanks for joining me today. >> Thank you. >> So, obviously we love cloud. I mean, we actually, we have all of our stuff in Amazon, so we're kind of a little bit biased, but we're open minded to any cloud that we don't provision any infrastructure, so we love the idea of horizontally disrupting markets. We're just kind of doing it on a media business. You're taking an approach with REAN Cloud that's different. What's different about what you guys are doing and why are you winning so much? >> Yeah, I mean, I guess that is, you know, the key word being disruption. You know, I'm hearing more and more as this news spreads out about why, you know, we've disrupted, so they're proven the disruption, and when I mean disruption, you know, I'll explain what the disruption, you know, we're creating in the service industry is if you take a typical, like a services company-- >> John: Mm-hm. >> They integrate products using people to integrate products to solve a problem, but in the cloud world you can create those integrations with programmatic or APIs, so we can create turnkey solutions. With that, what we're able to do is really sell outcome based. We go to the customer and say it's not time and material, it's not fixed price, it's pure outcome based. So, to give you an example, let's say if you went to a theme park and while you're on a ride somebody just takes a picture, and then after you're done with the ride they put a picture in front of you and say, "Do you want to buy this?" And if you don't buy it they throw it away, so we literally have the ability to create those outcomes on the fly like that, and that's the disruption because that kind of outcome based allows customers to meet their goals much quicker. So, one of the secrets to do that, if I can get this right, is you have to have a really software driven, data driven environment. >> Sri: Absolutely. >> So, that's fundamental, so I want to explore how you do that, and then what does it mean for the customers because what you're essentially doing is kind of giving a little predictive solution management to them. Say you want to connect to this service-- >> Sri: Yeah. >> Is that microservices, is this where it's going to be wired, take us through how that works, because there's tech involved. I'm not saying you don't want to throw anything away, but if it's digital (chuckling) what does it mean to turn it on or off, so is this what people are referring to with microservices and cloud? >> Yeah, so I'll get to the microservices part. The disruption, the way, you know... The innovation that we created is if you take 20 years ago, when you look at people transforming to the internet, right, so their first time they're going on the internet, at the time they were paying a HTML developer that would develop a webpage. >> Mm-hm. >> You know, hundreds of dollars an hour, right, and today high school kids can create their own webpages. That's the outcome focus, because the technology matured to a point where it auto-generates those HTML pages. So, fast forward 20 years, today people are looking for devops engineer as a talent, and whatever that devops engineer produces, we've figured out a way to outcome base. We can drag and drop and create my architectures and we are to produce that code, right. That's what makes us very unique. Now, coming to your question about microservices, when we are going to large customers we're taking this phased approach, right. First they will do lift and shift based-- >> John: Mm-hm. >> Move to cloud, which actually doesn't even give them a lot of their features. It doesn't give them better response. It doesn't optimize for cloud and give the benefits. Say they put in the effort to apply devops to become very responsive to customers. Say if I'm a bank I have my checking business and savings business, and each line of business got very efficient by using cloud, but they have not disrupted an industry because they have not created a platform across lines of business. >> John: Mm-hm. >> Right, so what they really need to do is to take these services they are providing across lines of business and create a platform of microservices. >> So, you basically provide an automation layer for things that are automated, but you allow glue to bring them together. >> Absolutely. >> That then kicks off microservices on top of it. >> Absolutely, right. >> So, very innovative, so you essentially, it's devops in a box. (laughing) >> That's it and what-- >> Or in the cloud. >> Yeah, what normally takes three years, so most of our customers when they tell this story they tell us, "Oh, that's five years down the road." So, we knock out three years off the mark, right. There are companies that, for example, DOD is one of our customers. >> Mm-hm. >> There are some other companies that have been working with DOD for the last two, three years and they have not been able to accomplish what we accomplished in three months. >> You guys see a more holistic approach. I can imagine just you basically break it down, automate it, put it in a library, use the overlay to drag and drop. >> Exactly, plug and play and that's it. >> So, question for you, so this makes sense in hardened environments like DOD, probably locked and solid, pretty solid but what about unknown, new processes. How do you guys look at that, do you take them as they come or use AI, so if you have unknown processes that can morph out of this, how do you deal with that use case? >> So, yeah, those unfortunately, you know, so what... There's this notion of co-creation-- >> John: Yeah. >> So, there's unknown processes where we put out best engineers is what drives to this commoditization or legos that-- >> So, you're always feeding the system with new, if you will, recipes. I use that word as more of a chef thing, but you know, more-- >> Sri: Exactly. >> Modules, if you will. >> Sri: Yeah. >> As a bit of an automated way, so it's really push button cloud. >> Absolutely. >> So, no integration, you don't have to hire coders to do anything. >> No. >> At best hit a rest API-- >> Sri: Yeah. >> Or initiate a microservice. >> Yeah, so what, I mean, the company started with Amazon.com as a, sorry Amazon Web Services as our first customer, and they retained us for software companies like Microsoft, SAP, and they went to Amazon and said, "We want to create a turnkey solution," like email as a solution, for example, for Microsoft, exchanging software. Email as a solution is spam filters plus, you know, four or five other things that we have to click button and launch, and Amazon, then we were servicing Amazon to create these turnkey solutions. >> So, talk about the DOD deal, because now this is interesting because I can see how they could like this. What does it mean for the customer, your customer, in this case the DOD, when you won this new contract was announced a couple days ago, how'd that go down? >> Yeah, so you know, I think we're super happy. Actually, again, 2010-- >> All your friends calling you and saying, "Hey, that $950 million check clear yet?" (laughing) That doesn't work that way, does it? >> It doesn't, it doesn't quite work that way, but although, you know, just some history, 10 years ago I had to choose between joining as a lead cloud architect for DISA versus first architect for Amazon Web Services, and I made the choice to go to Amazon Web Services, although I really loved servicing DOD because I think DOD's very mature in what you're calling microservices. >> John: Mm-hm. Back in the day, they had to be on the forefront of net-centric enterprise services, modern day microservices, because the Information Sharing Act required them to create so many services across the department, right, but there wasn't a technology like Amazon Web Services to make them so successful. >> John: Yeah. >> So, we're coming back now and we're able to do this, and I was with a company called MITRE at the time-- >> John: Yeah. >> And we, you know, I was the lead on the first infrastructure as a service BPA. If I compare to what that infrastructure as a service BPA was, the blanket purchase agreement, to what this OTA I think it's a night and day difference. >> What's OTA? >> OTA stands for other transaction agreements. >> Okay, got it. >> Which is how-- >> It's a contract thing. >> It's a contract thing, it's outside of federal acquisition regulation. >> Okay, got it. >> Which is beautiful, by the way, because unlike if you are doing such a deal, $950 million deal, probably companies that spend millions of dollars to write paper to win the deal, OTA's a little different. DIUx, who has the charter for the OTA, they need to find a real customer and a real problem to bring commercial entities and the commercial innovation to solve a theory problem, and then we have to prove ourselves. Thereabout, I'm told 29 companies competed and we, you know, we won the first phase, but there were two consequent phases where we have to provide our services, our platform, to the customer's satisfaction, and the OTA can only be the services we already provide. So, it's a very proven technology. >> John: Mm-hm. >> And as I see some of the social media responses, I look at those responses that people are talking about, you know, small companies winning this big deal and somebody was responding like, okay, we spent, you know, hundreds of millions on large companies, did nothing, and this small company already did a lot with $6 million. >> Well, that's the flattening of the world we're living in. You're doing with devops, you've automated away a lot of their inefficiencies. >> Absolutely, yeah. >> And this is really what cloud's about. That's the promise that you're getting to the DOD. >> Sri: Yeah, absolutely. >> So, the question for you is, okay, now as you go into this, and they could've added another $50 million just to get a nice billion dollar, get a unicorn feature in there, but congratulations. >> Sri: Thank you. >> You got to go in and automate. How do you roll this out, how big is the company, what are your plans, are you... Where do you go from here? >> Our company today is, you know, about 300 plus people, but we're not rolling this out on a people basis, obviously, right. You know, usually we have at least 10x more productivity than a normal company because especially servicing someone like DOD, it's very interesting because they do follow standards set by DISA. >> Mm-hm. >> So, what that means is if I'm building applications or microservices, which is a collection of instances, I have, DISA has something called STIG. You know, it's security guidelines, so everybody is using these STIG components. Now we create this drag and drop package of those components, and at that point it's variations of, you know, those components that you drag and drop and create, right, and the best thing is you get very consistent quality, secure, you know, deployment. >> I mean, you and I are on the same page on this whole devops valuation, and certainly Mark and Teresa wrote that seminal common about the 10x engineer. >> Sri: Yeah. >> This is really the scale we're talking about here. >> Sri: Absolutely. >> You know, so for the folks that don't get this, how do you explain to them that they, like what Oracle and IBM and the other guys are trying to do there. All the old processes are like they got stacks of binders of paper, they have their strategies to go win the deals, and then they're scratching their heads saying, "Why didn't we win?" What are they missing, what are the competitors that failed in the bid, what are they missing with cloud in your opinion? Is it the architecture, is it the automation, is it the microservices, or are they just missing the boat on the sales motion? >> Yeah, I think the biggest thing that people need to know is being on their toes. When Andy talks about being on the toes, when companies like Amazon at scale being on their toes, which means gone are those days where you can have roadmaps that you plan year, you know, year from now and you know, you do it, you're away from the customer by then, right, but if you're constantly focusing on the customer and innovating every day, right, we have a vision and a backlog. We don't have a roadmap, right. What we work on is what our next customer needs. >> John: Mm-hm. >> Right, and you're constantly servicing customers and you have stories to tell about customers being successful. >> What's your backlog look like? (laughing) >> Backlog could be a zillion things. Like what-- >> Features. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Feature requests or just whatever the customer might need. >> Feature requests, user stories, really understanding the why part of it. We try to emphasize the why of, you know, why you're doing and whose pain are you solving type of things, but the important thing is, you know, are we focusing on what matters to the customer next. >> How hard is multi-cloud to do, because if you take devops and you have this abstraction layer that you're providing on top of elastic resources, like say Amazon Web Services, when you start taking multi-cloud, isn't that just an API call or does it kind of change because you have, Amazon's got S3 and EC2 and a variety of other services, Azure and Google have their own file system. How hard is it code-based-wise to do what you're doing across multiple clouds? >> It's not at all difficult because every cloud has their infrastructure as code language, just like I talked about, you know, HTML to be generated to get a webpage. We use a technology called Terraform-- >> Mm-hm. >> That is inherently multi-cloud, so when we generate that cord I could change the provider and make it, you know, another cloud, right. >> Just a whole nother language conversion. >> Sri: A whole nother language, yes, exactly. >> So, you guys, do you have to do that heavy lifting upfront? >> Again, we don't, and it so happened that it will look at our platform that automates all these-- >> Yeah. >> The Amazon part of it grew so much because of what I just said. Like, the customer demand, even the enterprise customers that do have a multi-cloud strategy-- >> Mm-hm. >> You know, they end up more of what is good. >> Yeah. >> Sri: Right, so we end up building more of what is good. >> So, the lesson is, besides be on your toes, which I would agree with Andy on that one, is to be devops, automate, connect via APIs. >> Yeah. >> Anything else you would add to that? >> Devops is a, it's a principle of being very agile, experimenting in small batches, being very responsive to customers, right. It is all principles that, you know, that we embody and just call it devops, it's a culture. >> Managing partner of REAN Cloud. Sri, thanks so much for coming in. Congratulations on your $950 million, this close to a billion, almost, and congratulations on your success. Infrastructures, code, devops, going to the next level is all about automation and really making things connect and easily driven by software and data. It's theCUBE bringing you the data here in Washington, DC, here in Arlington, Virginia, AWS's Public Sector World Headquarters. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (techy music playing)

>> Welcome back, everyone, to our next segment here at SiliconANGLE hosted Druva Live event here in Palo Alto. Our next segment, hosting Matt Morgan and David Cordell for the understand the customer journey that the CMO of Druva and David Cordell customer. Matt, welcome back. Good to see you again. >> Matt: It's good to see you, John. >> So, take us through the customer journey. >> Okay, if you were to think about data protection, using legacy terms, you really think mostly about backup. And you think about the idea that if I just make a copy of the data and keep it in some storage apparatus, I've kind of protected my data. When you move to data management as a service, you turn that whole thing on its ear. First, let's talk about data protection. You can protect all of your end points. I don't care if the end points are on the land, or they're deep in the field, connected up to the Cloud through a WiFi connection, you can protect all of them. By collecting that data and protecting it, you can ensure that no matter what happens, people can get access to that information. Second, your servers. In remote offices, where there's DM ware proliferation, if you will. Often, most organizations don't even go through the hassle of trying to protect those servers, they just give up, and they go unprotected. With data management as a service, you can wrap data, Druva's solution inside those servers, and back those up directly to the Cloud. That data will coexist with the end points. And also, importantly, the move to Cloud apps. People move to Office 365, they move to Jace Waye, they move to Salesforce, they've got box folders. They think that data is protected and what they find is, over time, when data is lost, it's gone. And Druva can back that up as well, bringing all that together. So, our customer journey starts with protection. But what happens after protection is where it gets really interesting because that data's together and it's inside the Cloud, you actually can govern that data. So, now, legal teams can have access to all of that data if needed. You have the opportunity to manage it from a governance prospective. You have the opportunity to ensure that you're in compliance on that data, and with GDPR, that's becoming such a big deal. >> And that's the service piece, though, is adopting. Talk about how that is accelerating and where this connects. >> Oh, absolutely. The Yaza service is what makes the whole thing magical. If you think about how people can protect their data when all they have to think about is connecting to Druva. You can protect all of that data, right? You don't have to think about well, I need to build yet another architecture on Prim, I got to go buy yet another appliance. Oh wait, that appliance is full, I got to buy another one. Oh wait, the hard drives are over three years old. I got to refresh the, all of that goes away. Now, as a service, they just connect. I'm connected, I'm done. Three years, do I have to refresh? No, I don't have to do anything. It's all right there. And the third part, though, when you start looking at the customer journey is where it gets super, super interesting. We've been able to wrap machine learning around this data. And by having it all, this one data set and having machine learning algorithms, you can evolve customers to data intelligence. >> David, do you see Cloud as the center of your data protection strategy, or as an extension of your data protection strategy? >> Well, we see Druva as the center of our data protection and management strategy. The Cloud offers, even though there's consolidation, there's still pitfalls and a lot of management that you have to deal with. Druva is able to simplify this and give us an easy solution. >> What's the key to their success in your opinion? >> Key to success in my opinion is that, well the ease of use, the ease of implementation, the security that's route behind it, and the backing that a lot of people just don't see. In setting it up, it literally is just minutes, going from professional services, within 30 minutes you're set up and ready to roll. It's taken the pressure off of our legacy systems, you know, we have set up new environments but the legacy data is still a problem for us, and they've been able to determine what is good data and what is not. Druva's been able to help us determine, based on governance and the intelligence that's being provided. >> Great and Matt, I mean, they're using Druva as a center of their data protection strategy to Cloud, versus an extension as some people may look at it, why is this pattern relevant? Is it a pattern and what does it mean because this journey is one that a lot of people are on right now because, with the Cloud, there's no walls, there's no perimeter. It's a completely different paradigm shift and how you think about IT. From an architectural standpoint, it's not the same data protection game as it used to be. You guys have this as a service. So, what does it mean to be at the center of the data protection strategy, and is this pattern consistent with what you're saying? >> So, we've got 4000 customers on the platform now and David's story is a story I hear all the time. The idea that I can simply protect my data through a simple connection to the Cloud, and that's it, nothing else to do. I got a single pane of glass. I can access that data if something goes wrong I can pull that data down. That is a complete game change if you think about how people used to have to architect a system to be able to protect their data. Think about that, buying the equipment, wiring up the network, getting the appliance hot, getting access to the appliance. Is my, are my end points in my server? In my Cloud apps, are they able to communicate? I mean, all of these things that used to be kind of the big ah-ha, they all go away with Druva. You just simply connect to the service and off you go. Right, so the conversation that you've had about the simplicity angle is kind of the gateway drug to why you get started. But the limitations to it aren't there, right, so people start saying, "Wow if it's that easy, "I can do more than just the end points. "I can start doing my service. "I can do more than just three or four of my servers, "why don't I just do all my servers." Right? I mean, this is the conversation that I'm hearing. Maybe you can comment some more on that. >> Well, there's a lot more too it than I think, than just that but that's dead on. What we were seeing is resources. So when you talk about whether it's hardware or software resources, there's also employee resources. Getting those all lined up is very difficult. So, if we were looking at a product, in house, so if we're going to bring on Prim, it would probably take about four to six months to be able to roll it out because you have to plan. It's like you said, the architect that sits behind it. >> Like in an appliance, using an appliance or something? >> In an appliance, yeah. >> That's all that works got to be vetted, all that stuff, is that kind of the (laughs) that's a problem. >> We're also facing federal regulations. We have Homeland Security and the Coast Guard, comes down to us and say, "Okay, these are the regulations "that you're going to follow, "and we'll do these applications "and do these appliances meet those standards?" In some cases, no. In other cases, kind of sort of. Well, we found with Druva, that if you look at HIPAA sought to FedRAMP Ready. These are things that are really important to us, especially our SESO team. Yeah the go Clouds key. I got to ask about the security, you mentioned Coast Guard. First thing goes off in my head is, you know, they would want security because you've got a lot of stuff going in and out of the port in New Orleans, you know. I want to make sure that there's no hacking going on. What's the security angle look like on this? >> So, there is... So, the security is really good. They, we do face a lot of attacks and stuff. It comes in from all angles. Like I said, with a lot of the back end, it's at the, what is it, the sublayer. That to me is really important. So, you have your normal encryption, which everyone'll tell you, alright we're going to do from point A to point B are encrypted. Now when I start asking questions about back end encryption most companies can not answer. Or we need to find another engineer. Well, we're not sure, we'll get back to you. So, Druva is able get on the phone and start asking the questions, alright how do your sub systems communicate? How is the encryptions done on it? What type of encryption is done on it? >> Dave: They had tech jobs, they had security jobs. >> Yeah. >> So, people have a black hole, "Oh, I'll get back to you." Which means they don't have much. >> Exactly and so with Druva it was, you know, there were several conversations but they were usually real short and 10 minute conversations. Alright, you know, can you answer this for me? So, as they come up, it was easy to reach back out to Druva, and say, "Okay, what about this?" And, I mean, they got an answer back. They didn't have to wait for anyone else, they didn't have to wait for a call back, so it was really convenient for me and my SESO team. >> Matt, what's the impact to the market place 'cause, I mean, basically a lot of the stuff that is emerging, ransomware, is a huge issue. You've got obviously security, from the participants moving in and out of the Cloud, whether they're customers and/or attackers. It's got to work so you have to deal with a lot of the stuff, how do you guys make that work? And then you got to have the comfort to the customer, saying operationally you're going to be solid. >> Well, I think that the Cloud providers have done us a wonderful service, right, they have been out evangelizing the move to the Cloud. Druva doesn't have to have that conversation anymore. It's now part of the life blood of any IT organization. The Cloud is reality so now we're able to come in and say, "How can you maximize that investment." Right? So, take ransomware for a moment. I'm really glad you brought that up. This year, there were two massive ransomware attacks. We've seen 600% increase in ransomware attacks overall this year, and we did an incredible survey that showed an enormous amount of penetration within the Fortune 500. People were losing their data. In this last attack, what was really scary, you didn't have the option to pay the bitcoin. Or if you did pay the bitcoin, they didn't bother to send you the key to get your data back so it was more like a whiteware attack, not a ransomware attack. >> I think ransomware attacks are underestimated, people don't understand how severe this is. Because not only are you down, and you are hijacked, if you will, for the ransom, for the security. Look at the impact of the business. I mean, HBO is a real public example recently. I mean, this is a real threat to the business model to these companies. It's not like a check box on security anymore. Not only you need to check the box but you got to really have a bulletproof strategy. >> Yeah, it's not a nice to have, right? It used to think that maybe ransomware would attack a dummy that would click on a link in an email. Well, reality is that everyone is going to make a mistake and no matter what parameter security you have, somebody is not, don't call them a dummy, someone's going to accidentally click on something and bam, the ransomware is in your firewall. So, with Druva, you don't have to worry about it. Your data will be protected. It's not just going to be protected, it's going to be protected in the Cloud, which is a separate area. There's no way the ransomware is going to crawl to the Cloud to encrypt that data. And with our machine learning tech, we're going to see the first encryption so we're going to alert you so you have early detection. We call it anomaly detection, giving you the opportunity to make sure you can recover all of that data. >> If a friend asked you, "Hey, what's the journey like "with Druva and how do you expect it to go forward? "How would you describe that journey?" >> Oh, easy. Simplicity. Moving to Druva was an easy decision. So, if someone was coming to me and asks me, you know, they wanted to find out what about Druva products. It's easy, get in touch with them. Come up with a list of questions and start drilling 'em. I was actually pretty rough in one of the meetings with Druva. (chattering) >> What did you do, did you grill them on the technical? Was it more of a, you know, I mean, what was the key drill down points for you? >> For me, it's technical. So, there's a couple of aspects, we did see a couple ransomware. It took us a while to recover. So that was during the fact but mostly when I was drilling Druva, it was all technical. Like I said, though, they we're firing back the answers as fast as I was firing the questions. So, just be prepared. The one thing that, as you touched on with the ransomware, the other nice thing about it is that you can step back through your recovery points and see, okay, this is exactly what happened. So there is the analytic piece of it and the machine learning is absolutely sweet. So a lot of times, I actually-- >> Host: For instance are critical. >> Yes, so I get the alert and so when I get things, you know, I'm a technical CTO. I'm going to go and start looking at things so it's really convenient for me to start going back and stepping through, okay, now I see it. So, besides all the alerts, and what you're telling me, I now see the exact same thing, so it's easy to act on. >> And going forward, how do you see that journey progressing? What are the things that you anticipate that you'll be dealing with as CTO, technical CTO, what are the things that are on the horizon for you that you're going to, you're looking down the barrel of? Is it more ransomware, is it more expansion, what's the strategy look like? >> Oh, we're seeing the strangest attacks forever. So, right now, there's shipping. Shipping is being attacked left and right. It's been going on for several months. We actually brought a company in that provides networking and solutions for ships themselves for the liners. So, they show us the computer system that's on the ship. So, I start asking again about security and draw blanks. So, in working with, actually the Maritime Port Security Information Sharing Organization out of the Gulf of Mexico. It's a lot of awareness. A lot of it is education, not only for in-users, but for IT. So to be able to start stepping back through the backup is top-notch. >> Huge story, I love the drill down on that. I'm sure the infrastructure and the evolution, they've got to modernize their fleets, technically speaking. >> They do and a lot of them are looking to the United States that are coming from overseas as a driver. Yeah, so, what we're seeing again is through ships. We are seeing some ransomware come across. There's, I guess, what was it, in Russia they had a rail attack. Well, recently the Port of New Orleans has acquired a public belt of New Orleans. So that will fall under our jurisdiction soon as well. So, it's like, alright, what kind of attacks are we going to be seeing from this? So, a lot of it is the swishing system but the majority, I know the Coast Guard, a recent activity that we had was all on phishing. So, a lot of it today is through phishing but we're going to start seeing more out of the IOT. We've seen a couple of good cell phone attacks. But back to the IOT, there was attacks that, they weren't organized. They weren't professionals doing the attacks. They're coming and it's going to be rough when they hit. >> It won't hurt any service here, that's the whole point of the Cloud, Matt, for this customer journey. Having that center of strategy gives you a lot of flexibility. >> Yeah, I think the idea of leveraging all the security that has now been hardened into public Cloud providers, Azure and AWS. You can inherit all of that as part of the solution. And then all the work that we have done to layer on top of that, gives you further assurances. But there's nothing like just having your data replicated entirely off-site, in the Cloud. And when we talk about replication, we actually do that several times over so you're in the situation where you have redundancy. And I think that that's of value as well. >> Good to have technical chops. Customer insurance have to be simple. That's kind of a basic concept but tried and true business model, making things simple and elegant. Congratulations. Thanks for spending the time sharing this story today. I appreciate it. Right back, more special coverage here at theCUBE. Thanks for watching.

(theCUBE theme music) >> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C. It's theCUBE, covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner ecosystem. >> Welcome back here to the show floor at AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Along with John Furrier, I'm John Walls. Glad to have you here on theCUBE as we continue our coverage here live from the nation's capital. Joining us now from Enlighten IT Consulting is John Eubank IV, Director of Program Management Office. John, thanks for joining us here on theCUBE, a CUBE rookie, I believe, is that correct? >> Yes, sir, yeah, thanks for the invite. >> Nice to break the maiden, good to have you aboard here. First off, tell us a little bit about your consulting firm for our viewers at home, to give an idea about your frame and why you're here at AWS. >> Absolutely, so we're a big data consulting company focused on cyber security solutions for the DOD IC community. What we jumped into about three years ago was a partnership with AWS. And seeing, just the volume, the velocity of data coming out of the DOD, that those on-premise server farms could not keep up, could not support it with the power, space and cooling needs. So we partnered with AWS and over the last three years we've been migrating our customers up to GovCloud, specifically. >> So what are you doing then for DOD specifically, then? When you said you solve problems, right? They've got reams and reams of data, trying to help them manage that process a little bit better, but, you know, drill down a little bit more specifically what you're doing for DOD. >> Absolutely, so we developed a proprietary technology called the Rapid Analytic Deployment and Management Framework, RADMF, it's available on RADMF.com, R A D M F dot com. >> John Walls: True marketer. >> Yeah, true marketer at heart. So that's our, sort of governance framework for DOD applications that want to move to the cloud. It automates the deployment process to get 'em out of their existing systems up to the cloud. One of the real problems inside the DOD that we've encountered is the disparate data sets to enable effective analytics when it comes to cyber security solutions. So, I like to think back to the day one conversation about, sort of the data swamp, not the data lake. That's exactly what we have inside the DOD. There's so many home-built sensors, paired with COT sensors, that it's created this absolute mess, or nightmare of data. That swamp needs to be drained. It needs to be, sort of refined in a way that we can call it a data lake, something understandable that people can-- >> I hate the term data lake, I, you've been listening, I, John knows I hate the term data lake. Love the term data swamp, because it illustrates exactly that, there is, if you don't watch the data, and don't share it, it's just stagnant, and it turns into a swamp. And I think, this is a huge issue. >> John Eubank IV: Absolutely correct. >> So I want you to just double down on that, just give some color. Is it the volume of the data, is it the lack of sharing, both? (laughs) >> It's really every, it's everything under the sun, there's, you know, sharing issues all across the federal government right now and who can see what data, Navy doesn't want to share with Army, inside the IC-- >> John Furrier: Well that'll never happen. >> Agencies don't want to share with each other. (laughs) I think we're, we're breaking down those walls. We're seeing that, when it comes to cyber security, no one person can defend an entire nation. No one agency can defend an entire nation on their own. It has to be a collaborative solution. It has to be a team effort. Navy, Army, Air Force, IC, etc., have to work together, in tendem, in partnership, if we're ever going to just, defend our nation from cyber hackers. >> I want to ask you a philosophical question, because, you know, as someone who's been online all my life, computer science, you've seen, there's always the notion of trolling, the notion of online message boards, back in the day when I was running, is now main stream now, >> John Eubank IV: Right. >> I mean people trolling each other on Twitter, for crying out loud, main stream. So, the culture of digital has an ethos, and open source is a big driver on that cyber security, there's a huge ethos of sharing, and it's kind of an honor among practitioners. >> John Eubank IV: Mm-hmm. 'cause they know how big the threat is. How is that evolving? Because this seems to highlight, your point about sharing, that it's, the digital world's different than the analog world, and some of the practices that are getting traction can be doubled-down on. So everyone's trying to figure out what's, what should be double-down on, and what are the good practices from the bad? Can you just share some cultural... >> Well, I think you hit the nail on the head with the open source model there. That is the key right here. It's not even within the government we need to share. It's industry and government, in partnership, need to approach these problem sets together and work on 'em as one cohesive body. So, for example, our company, our platform, it's entirely an open source platform. It's government-owned solution. We don't sell, it's the big data platform, it's provided by DISA right now. We don't sell that product. It's available to any government agency that wants it for free. We have 1500 different software developers and engineers from across the government community that collaborate together to evolve that platform. And that's really the only way we're going to make a significan difference right now. >> That creativity that could come out of this new process that you're referring to, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here on theCUBE, is interesting because you think about all those people on Twitch. >> John Eubank IV: Uh-huh. >> 34 million, I think, a day or whatever the big number, it's a huge number. Those idle gamers could be actually collaborating on a core problem that could be fun. So if you look at a crowd sourcing model of attacking data, this is kind of a whole new mindset of culture. To me, this is the kind of doors that open up when you start thinking like this model. Because the bad guys are already ahead of the game. I mean, so, how do you, how do you guys talk about that, 'cause you guys have to kind of keep some data masked, and you have to kind of, maybe not expose everything. How do you balance that secretive nature of it, and yet opening it up? >> That's a question that the DHS is struggling with, sort of day in and day out right now. They're going through a couple different iterations of different efforts. There was the ESSA program, there's the Automated Indicator Sharing program going on right now with DHS and some of the IC partners of what do we share with industry, because we're recognizing as a government we can't defend this nation on our own. We need an industry partnership. How do we open that up to the general public of the United States to do that crowd sourced mentality. Threat hunting is a lot of fun if you know what you're doing, and if somebody will guide you down the path, it's an endless world and a need for threat analysts to study the data sets that are out there. Indicators of compromise point you in a general direction, but they're a wide-open direction, and... >> They're already playing, it's like lagging in a video game, they're, gamers are already ahead of, the hackers are already ahead of you. Interesting point, Berkeley, University of California at Berkeley has a new program, they call it the quote Navy Seals of cyber. It's an integrated computer science and engineering and Haas business school program. And it's a four-year degree specifically for a special forces kind of thinking. Interdisciplinary, highly data driven, computer science, engineering and business so they can understand, again, hackers run a business model. These are organized units. This is kind of what we're up against. >> Absolutely agree. >> John Furrier: What are your thoughts on that? You think that's the, the right direction, we need more of it? >> We need more of it, absolutely. DOD is moving in the same direction with the cyber protection teams or CPTs. They're beginning to do sort of the same formal training models for the soldiers. Unfortunately, right now a lot of the cyber protection teams are just scavenged resources from other branches of the military. So you have guys in EOD that are now transitioning into cyber, and they're going from diffusing bombs to diffusing cyber threats. It's a totally different scenario and use case, and it's a tough struggle to transition into that when your background was diffusing a bomb. >> And you brought up the industry collaboration, talking about private, you know, private sector and public sector. I know, you know, personal experience in the wireless space, there was a lot of desire to share information, but yet there was a congressional reluctance. >> John Eubank IV: Mm-hmm. >> To allow that. For different concerns. Some we thought were very unwarranted at the time. So how do you deal with that, because that's another influence in this, is that you might have willing parties, but you've got another body over here that might not be on board. >> I think we're going to start seeing more of a shift as private industry acknowledges their need for government support and that government collaboration, so data breaches like the Target breach and massive credit card breaches that, you know, these private industries cannot keep up with defending their own network. They need government supoort for defending very large corporations. Walmart, Target, Home Depot, the list goes on of breaches. >> Final question as we wrap up here, but what's the coolest tech that you're seeing that's enabling you to be successful, whether it's cool tech that you're looking at, you're kicking the tires on. From software to Amazon, hardware, what are you seeing that's out there that's really moving the needle and getting people motivated? >> So a surprising thing there, I'm going to say the Snowball Edge. And people go, it's just a data hard drive. Well, not really. It's way more than a data hard drive. So when you come to Amazon you think enterprise solutions, enterprise capabilities. What the Snowball Edge provides is a deployable unit that has processing, compute, storage, etc., onboard that you can take into your local networks. They're putting it so you can run any VM you want on the Snowball Edge. What we're doing is we're taking that inside DOD tactical spaces that don't have connections to the internet. We're able to do computation analytics on threats facing that local regional onclave using a hard drive. It's really cool technology that hasn't been fully explored, but that's uh, that's where we're-- >> You can tell you're excited about it. Your eyes light up, you got a big smile on your face. >> Drove the new Ferrari that came out. >> Yeah, right. >> When I saw it, I just jumped all in. >> John Walls: You loved it, right. >> So, three months ago... >> You knew right away, too. >> Right. >> John Furrier: The big wheel. >> John, thank you for being with us. I think they're going to kick us out of the place, John. >> Hey, they got to unplug us. We're going to go until they unplug us. >> Alright, John, again thanks for being with us. >> Well, thank you guys for your time, much appreciated. >> Thank you for joining us here from Washington, for all of us here at theCUBE, we appreciate you being along for the ride at AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. (theCUBE theme music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering HPE Discover 2017, brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We're live here in Las Vegas for SiliconANGLE's CUBE coverage of HPE Discover 2017. This is our seventh year of covering HPE Discover Now. HPE Discover in its second year. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vellante. We've got two great guests, two doctors, PhD's in the house here. So Eng Lim Goh, VP and SGI CTO, PhD, and Tuomas Sandholm, Professor at Carnegie Mellon University of Computer Science and also runs the marketplace lab over there, welcome to theCube guys, doctors. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So the patient is on the table, it's called machine learning, AI, cloud computing. We're living in a really amazing place. I call it open bar and open source. There's so many new things being contributed to open source, so much new hardware coming on with HPE that there's a lot of innovation happening. So want to get your thoughts first on how you guys are looking at this big trend where all this new software is coming in and these new capabilities, what's the vibe, how do you look at this. You must be, Carnegie Mellon, oh this is an amazing time, thoughts. >> Yeah, it is an amazing time and I'm seeing it both on the academic side and the startup side that you know, you don't have to invest into your own custom hardware. We are using HPE with the Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center in academia, using cloud in the startups. So it really makes entry both for academic research and startups easier, and also the high end on the academic research, you don't have to worry about maintaining and staying up to speed with all of the latest hardware and networking and all that. You know it kind of. >> Focus on your research. >> Focus on the research, focus on the algorithms, focus on the AI, and the rest is taken care of. >> John: Eng talk about the supercomputer world that's now there, if you look at the abundant computer intelligent edge we're seeing genome sequencing done in minutes, the prices are dropping. I mean high performance computing used to be this magical, special thing, that you had to get a lot of money to pay for or access to. Democratization is pretty amazing can I just hear your thoughts on what you see happening. >> Yes, Yes democratization in the traditional HPC approach the goal is to prediction and forecasts. Whether the engine will stay productive, or financial forecasts, whether you should buy or sell or hold, let's use the weather as an example. In traditional HPC for the last 30 years what we do to predict tomorrows weather, what we do first is to write all the equations that models the weather. Measure today's weather and feed that in and then we apply supercomputing power in the hopes that it will predict tomorrows weather faster than tomorrow is coming. So that has been the traditional approach, but things have changed. Two big things changed in the last few years. We got these scientists that think perhaps there is a new way of doing it. Instead of calculating your prediction can you not use data intensive method to do an educated guess at your prediction and this is what you do. Instead of feeding today's weather information into the machine learning system they feed 30 years everyday, 10 thousand days. Everyday they feed the data in, the machine learning system guess at whether it will rain tomorrow. If it gets it wrong, it's okay, it just goes back to the weights that control the inputs and adjust them. Then you take the next day and feed it in again after 10 thousand tries, what started out as a wild guess becomes an educated guess, and this is how the new way of doing data intensive computing is starting to emerge using machine learning. >> Democratization is a theme I threw that out because I think it truly is happening. But let's get specific now, I mean a lot of science has been, well is climate change real, I mean this is something that is in the news. We see that in today's news cycle around climate change things of that as you mentioned weather. So there's other things, there's other financial models there's other in healthcare, in disease and there's new ways to get at things that were kind of hocus pocus maybe some science, some modeling, forecasting. What are you seeing that's right low hanging fruit right now that's going to impact lives? What key things will HPC impact besides weather? Is healthcare there, where is everyone getting excited? >> I think health and safety immediately right. Health and safety, you mentioned gene sequencing, drug designs, and you also mentioned in gene sequencing and drug design there is also safety in designing of automobiles and aircrafts. These methods have been traditionally using simulation, but more and more now they are thinking while these engines for example, are flying can you collect more data so you can predict when this engine will fail. And also predict say, when will the aircraft lands what sort of maintenance you should be applying on the engine without having to spend some time on the ground, which is unproductive time, that time on the ground diagnosing the problems. You start to see application of data intensive methods increased in order to improve safety and health. >> I think that's good and I agree with that. You could also kind of look at some of the technology perspective as to what kind of AI is going to be next and if you look back over the last five to seven years, deep learning has become a very hot part of machine learning and machine learning is part of AI. So that's really lifted that up. But what's next there is not just classification or prediction, but decision making on top of that. So we'll see AI move up the chain to actual decision making on top of just the basic machine learning. So optimization, things like that. Another category is what we call strategic reasoning. Traditionally in games like chess, or checkers and now Go, people have fallen to AI and now we did this in January in poker as well, after 14 years of research. So now we can actually take real strategic reasoning under imperfect information settings and apply it to various settings like business strategy optimization, automated negotiation, certain areas of finance, cyber security, and so forth. >> Go ahead. >> I'd like to interject, so we are very on it and impressed right. If we look back years ago IBM beat the worlds top chess player right. And that was an expert system and more recently Google Alpha Go beat even a more complex game, Go, and beat humans in that. But what the Professor has done recently is develop an even more complex game in a sense that it is incomplete information, it is poker. You don't know the other party's cards, unlike in the board game you would know right. This is very much real life in business negotiation in auctions, you don't quite know what the other party' thinking. So I believe now you are looking at ways I hope right, that poker playing AI software that can handle incomplete information, not knowing the other parties but still able to play expertly and apply that in business. >> I want to double down on that, I know Dave's got a question but I want to just follow this thread through. So the AI, in this case augmented intelligence, not so much artificial, because you're augmenting without the perfect information. It's interesting because one of the debates in the big data world has been, well the streaming of all this data is so high-velocity and so high-volume that we don't know what we're missing. Everyone's been trying to get at the perfect information in the streaming of the data. And this is where the machine learning if I get your point here, can do this meta reasoning or this reasoning on top of it to try to use that and say, hey let's not try to solve the worlds problems and boil the ocean over and understand it all, let's use that as a variable for AI. Did I get that right? >> Kind of, kind of I would say, in that it's not just a technical barrier to getting the big data, it's also kind of a strategic barrier. Companies, even if I could tell you all of my strategic information, I wouldn't want to. So you have to worry not just about not having all the information but are there other guys explicitly hiding information, misrepresenting and vice versa, you doing strategic action as well. Unlike in games like Go or chess, where it's perfect information, you need totally different kinds of algorithms to deal with these imperfect information games, like negotiation or strategic pricing where you have to think about the opponents responses. >> It's your hairy window. >> In advance. >> John: Knowing what you don't know. >> To your point about huge amounts of data we are talking about looking for a needle in a haystack. But when the data gets so big and the needles get so many you end up with a haystack of needles. So you need some augmentation to help you to deal with it. Because the humans would be inundated with the needles themselves. >> So is HPE sort of enabling AI or is AI driving HPC. >> I think it's both. >> Both, yeah. >> Eng: Yeah, that's right, both together. In fact AI is driving HPC because it is a new way of using that supercomputing power. Not just doing computer intensive calculation, but also doing it data intensive AI, machine learning. Then we are also driving AI because our customers are now asking the same questions, how do I transition from a computer intensive approach to a data intensive one also. This is where we come in. >> What are your thoughts on how this affects society, individuals, particularly students coming in. You mentioned Gary Kasparov losing to the IBM supercomputer. But he didn't stop there, he said I'm going to beat the supercomputer, and he got supercomputers and humans together and now holds a contest every year. So everybody talks about the impact of machines replacing humans and that's always happened. But what do you guys see, where's the future of work, of creativity for young people and the future of the economy. What does this all mean? >> You want to go first or second? >> You go ahead first. (Eng and Tuomas laughing) >> They love the fighting. >> This is a fun topic, yeah. There's a lot of worry about AI of course. But I think of AI as a tool, much like a hammer or a saw So It's going to make human lives better and it's already making human lives better. A lot of people don't even understand all the things that already have AI that are helping them out. There's this worry that there's going to be a super species that's AI that's going to take over humans. I don't think so, I don't think there's any demand for a super species of AI. Like a hammer and a saw, a hammer and a saw is better than a hammersaw, so I actually think of AI as better being separate tools for separate applications and that is very important for mankind and also nations and the world in the future. One example is our work on kidney exchange. We run the nationwide kidney exchange for the United Network for Organ Sharing, which saves hundreds of lives. This is an example not only that saves lives and makes better decisions than humans can. >> In terms of kidney candidates, timing, is all of that. >> That's a long story, but basically, when you have willing but incompatible live donors, incompatible with the patient they can swap their donors. Pair A gives to pair B gives to pair C gives to pair A for example. And we also co-invented this idea of chains where an altruist donor creates a while chain through our network and then the question of which combination of cycles and chains is the best solution. >> John: And no manual involvement, your machines take over the heavy lifting? >> It's hard because when the number of possible solutions is bigger than the number of atoms in the universe. So you have to have optimization AI actually make the decisions. So now our AI makes twice a week, these decisions for the country or 66% of the transplant centers in the country, twice a week. >> Dr. Goh would you would you add anything to the societal impact of AI? >> Yes, absolutely on the cross point on the saw and hammer. That's why these AI systems today are very specific. That's why some call them artificial specific intelligence, not general intelligence. Now whether a hundred years from now you take a hundred of these specific intelligence and combine them, whether you get an emergent property of general intelligence, that's something else. But for now, what they do is to help the analyst, the human, the decision maker and more and more you will see that as you train these models it's hard to make a lot of correct decisions. But ultimately there's a difference between a correct decision and, I believe, a right decision. Therefore, there always needs to be a human supervisor there to ultimately make the right decision. Of course, he will listen to the machine learning algorithm suggesting the correct answer, but ultimately the human values have to be applied to decide whether society accepts this decision. >> All models are wrong, some are useful. >> So on this thing there's a two benefits of AI. One is a this saves time, saves effort, which is a labor savings, automation. The other is better decision making. We're seeing the better decision making now become more of an important part instead of just labor savings or what have you. We're seeing that in the kidney exchange and now with strategic reasoning, now for the first time we can do better strategic reasoning than the best humans in imperfect information settings. Now it becomes almost a competitive need. You have to have, what I call, strategic augmentation as a business to be competitive. >> I want to get your final thoughts before we end the segment, this is more of a sharing component. A lot of young folks are coming in to computer science and or related sciences and they don't need to be a computer science major per se, but they have all the benefits of this goodness we're talking about here. Your advice, if both of you could share you opinion and thoughts in reaction to the trend where, the question we get all the time is what should young people be thinking about if they're going to be modeling and simulating a lot of new data scientists are coming in some are more practitioner oriented, some are more hard core. As this evolution of simulations and modeling that we're talking about have scale here changes, what should they know, what should be the best practice be for learning, applying, thoughts. >> For me you know the key thing is be comfortable about using tools. And for that I think the young chaps of the world as they come out of school they are very comfortable with that. So I think I'm actually less worried. It will be a new set of tools these intelligent tools, leverage them. If you look at the entire world as a single system what we need to do is to move our leveraging of tools up to a level where we become an even more productive society rather than worrying, of course we must be worried and then adapt to it, about jobs going to AI. Rather we should move ourselves up to leverage AI to be an even more productive world and then hopefully they will distribute that wealth to the entire human race, becomes more comfortable given the AI. >> Tuomas your thoughts? >> I think that people should be ready to actually for the unknown so you've got to be flexible in your education get the basics right because those basics don't change. You know, math, science, get that stuff solid and then be ready to, instead of thinking about I'm going to be this in my career, you should think about I'm going to be this first and then maybe something else I don't know even. >> John: Don't memorize the test you don't know you're going to take yet, be more adaptive. >> Yes, creativity is very important and adaptability and people should start thinking about that at a young age. >> Doctor thank you so much for sharing your input. What a great world we live in right now. A lot of opportunities a lot of challenges that are opportunities to solve with high performance computing, AI and whatnot. Thanks so much for sharing. This is theCUBE bringing you all the best coverage from HPE Discover. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, we'll be back with more live coverage after this short break. Three days of wall to wall live coverage. We'll be right back. >> Thanks for having us.