>>Welcome to the cubes coverage of VMworld 2021. I'm Lisa Martin VJ ramen. Shannon joins me next VP of product management at VMware VJ. Welcome back to the program. >>Thank you. So >>We're going to be talking about disaster recovery, VMware cloud. Dr. We've had a lot of challenges with respect to cybersecurity, but the world has in the last 18 months, I'd like to get your, your thoughts on the disaster recovery as a service, the dearest market. What are some of the key trends? Anything that you've noticed have particular interest in the last year and a half? >>Yeah, actually you're right. I mean that the last one year, since the pandemic, you know, the whole, um, lot of industries want to, uh, deploy DLR systems and want to protect themselves in France, somewhere and other, uh, other areas of the Amazon predicting that the disaster service market is going to reach about $10 billion by 2025. And so we, uh, we introduced bandwidth disaster recovery, you know, the last beam work with an acquisition of a company called atrium. And since then we've had tremendous success and it was really largely driven by two key trends that we seen in the market. One is that a lot of our customers have regulatory and mandates to do have a PR plan in place. And second is ransomware and ransomware a lot more in this interview, but ransomware is top of mind for a lot of customers. So those, these two combined together is really making a huge push to, uh, to protect all the data against, uh, disasters. >>What type of customers and any particular industries that you see that are really keenly adopting VMware cloud and D anything that you think is interesting. >>Yeah, it's actually interesting that you say it's actually not a single vertical or a size of the customer. What we have again, what we're finding is that a lot of the regulated industries, I, you know, having 92 to do the art, but the existing VR and data production systems are extremely complex and not cost effective. So, you know, customers are asked to do more with less. And so a lot of our customers, a lot of those customers are asking for, uh, looking for a cost-effective way to protect all the data. And, you know, and ransomware is not something that, that impacts, you know, any single vertical or, or any single size of customer. It impacts everyone. So we're seeing interest from all different verticals, different sizes of customers, uh, across, uh, the, you know, the B cell this, >>Yeah, you're right. The ransomware is a universal problem. And as we saw in the last few months, a problem that is really one of national public health and safety and security concerns. So you mentioned that customers from a regulatory perspective, those that need to implement Dr. Ransomware, as we talked about, are there, and then you also mentioned legacy solutions are kind of costly complex. Talk to me about some of the challenges with respect to those legacy solutions that you're helping customers to address with VMware cloud disaster recovery. >>Yeah. There are a few traits of chains that are, uh, that are emerging and then the whole data production space. One is, uh, customers want to do more with the data. And so with legacy systems, what they're finding is that customers are, you know, are able to replicate the data, but the data is sitting idle and not being used. And so, um, you know, and that's extremely, very expensive for our customers on the line. And secondly, from an outpatient standpoint, backup and Dr, as kind of merging into a single single solution and ransomware protection is becoming a critical use case as we spoke about at the talk about for that. So, uh, customers are not looking to deploy different systems for different types of production. They're looking for a similar solution that, that the lowest cost and gives them enough production across all these different use cases. >>And so where the NFL disaster recovery comes into play is that, is that we are able to use the data that we protect for other uses such as, uh, such as ransomware recovery, such as data protection, such as disaster recovery. So single copy of data that's being could be used in multiple use cases. Number one. And secondly, uh, it's a very expensive, uh, proposition to have, um, you know, on-prem to on-prem, you know, having to, you know, people who shouldn't capacity just sitting idle. And so where Vizio comes into play is that they're able to use, uh, protect the data into cloud, store it in a cost effective manner, and then just use the data when it's acquired either fatal or during disasters in ransomware. And that's where you're able to in, in, in, in the market today, >>Dig through some of those differentiators, if you will, one by one, because there's so much choice out there, there's a lot of backup solutions. Some that are providing backup only some that are doing also Dr. Depending on how customers have deployed and how they're using the technology. But when you're in customer conversations, what are the three things that you articulate about VMware cloud DVR that really help it stand out above the pack? >>Yeah, number one is the cost, right? Um, we, you know, we're able to bring down the cost of, uh, of a disaster protection, uh, by 65, by 65%. And, uh, and, you know, um, that's one big value proposition that we, uh, that we know highlight in our solution. Number two, a lot of our customers also becoming environmentally friendly and, you know, and I'm in a conscious, I should say. And so, because we're able to store the data in a more cost-effective manner, in a more efficient manner in the cloud, they're able to bring down the carbon footprint by 80% compared to regular, you know, your legacy, uh, disaster recovery and data protection solution. And the third, you know, sort of major value proposition from, from, uh, from the BMS is that, you know, we're able to integrate the, uh, uh, BCDR solution, the disaster coriander data protection solution. So well into our, um, you know, into, into the ecosystem, uh, can easily operationally easily recover data into a BM ware cloud. And so for, for the BMA ecosystem, it just becomes a natural logical extension of their, uh, their, uh, toolset. >>That's huge having a console that you're familiar with, you know, the whole point of, of backing up data and the need to recover from a disaster is to be able to restore the data in a timely fashion. I talked with a lot of customers who were using legacy technologies, and that was one of the biggest challenges backup windows weren't completing, or they simply couldn't recover data that was either, um, lost in an, in a ransomware attack or accidentally lost that recovery is what it's all about. Right. >>That's it, that's exactly right. And so at this rainbow ledger using a key enhancements and features that specifically speak to that, uh, you know, to that pain point that you just mentioned, you know, uh, we are bringing down, uh, the, uh, you know, the replication time, uh, to 30 to 30 minutes. So in other words, your Delta is, is, is, uh, is at a 300 interval now compared to all us in a traditional backup system. And number two, um, we are extending, uh, you know, be in love with a copy of it regardless it's always had with single file recovery. And so, especially for the, for the ransomware, uh, use case customers are quickly able to figure out which file leads to the restore, and they're able to restore those files individually rather than restoring their entire VM for the entire data center. And so it becomes a critical, uh, use case for, uh, critical functionality, I should say, for a ransomware recovery. And the other huge announcement of a major announcement media announcement had been made, uh, uh, others be involved is the integration into the VMware cloud in such a way that customers who move are migrating data into the BMR, the cloud on AWS can, uh, have the opportunity to, um, uh, protect the data, um, you know, uh, you know, easily BCDR and >>Got it. I'd love to get an example of a customer that you helped to recover from ransomware. As we mentioned, it's on the rise. In fact, I was looking at some cybersecurity data in the last few weeks, and it's the first half of 2021 calendar. It was up nearly 11 ax. And obviously the, the, the hockey stick lists looking like it's going to continue to go up into the right. So give me an example of a customer that you helped recover after they were hit with ransomware. >>Yeah. Yeah, I lose. And in fact, before I give you one set, one statistic that I just saw recently, um, it is, um, every Lennon are going to be across the board. There's some ransomware attack and in the world. And so, uh, you know, it is a big, you know, it is a huge, huge top of mind for a lot of, uh, the CEO's across and I, you know, across the globe now, uh, we, I just give you an example of one customer that we helped, um, you know, protect the data against ransomware. Merrick is the customer name, uh, it's a public reference. It can, um, you know, it's, it's in the BMI website and they had legacy systems, just like we talked about before they had legacy systems for protecting the data and they had, you know, backup systems and they had disaster recovery systems. >>And the big pain point was that, you know, they knew that they are, you know, they needed to protect against ransomware and, but they had two different systems backup and disaster recovery, and their cost was high because they were replicating the light data or production data, uh, you know, across different sites. And so they were looking for a, uh, to lower the cost of disaster recovery, but more importantly, they're looking to, uh, to protect themselves against potential ransomware threats and, um, and they were able to deploy VCR. And how does multiple points in time? Um, you know, I, in, in, um, in the, in the cloud that are, that allows them to go to any point, uh, you know, uh, after a ransomware attack and record from it. And as I said, the single file recovery was a huge benefit for them because they can then figure out exactly which, you know, which of those files, uh, you know, required, um, recovery. And so, um, they're able to lower the cost and protect, uh, and at the same time, uh, you know, meet the regulatory requirements and mandates to have a production in place so that the women all up there in all over the place, >>As you said, there, the data show one ransomware attack occurs every 11 seconds. And of course we only hear about the ones that make the news, right, for the most part, our customers talk about, Hey, we've had this problem. So it is no longer a, if we get hit with ransomware for every industry, like you were saying before, no industry is blind to this. It's when we get hit, we've gotta be able to recover the data. It sounds like what you're talking about from a recovery perspective is it's, it's very granular. So folks can go in and find exactly what they're looking for. Like, they don't have to restore entire VM. They can go down to the file level. >>That's exactly right. And, and you need the grant of the recovery because you want to be able to quickly restore, you know, your data, uh, and get back on, uh, you know, get back in the business. And so, uh, we provide that granular, granular recovery at the file level so that you can quickly scan your data, figure out which file needs to be at least a bit of cover and recollect just those files. Of course, you can also the color. We also provide authorization for the whole data center for the whole, uh, you know, BM and all the beings in the data center, but customers when they hit the trends and where they want to be able to quickly get back, get back into production, to those flights that, you know, that they critically need. And so that's, um, yeah, that's, it's a critical functionality. >>So is this whole entire solution in the cloud, or is there anything that the customer needs to have on premise? >>So this is, uh, all the data is go to the cloud in an efficient day, in an efficient way. Again, uh, you know, this is another sort of, um, like be that behalf, which is it's easy to just store data in the cloud in a debate, but what we do is be efficiently store the data so that, you know, you, uh, you know, you can know what the cost of your storage and, uh, uh, in the cloud. And so, you know, we used to be at BCDR, we'll be in the cloud disaster recovery. Those data in the cloud is, uh, and, and, and the data repository is in the cloud. And, uh, you can either recover data back to where you need to recover, or we allow filo or orchestrate automatically feel or of, uh, workloads into VMware on AWS, again, operational consistent, because it's a BMI software that's running on ground BMI software, that's running on data and you can, um, you know, fail a lot and bring the data onto the in-vitro Needham, VSO. It's, uh, uh, it's, uh, you know, and it's all there to look for SAS customer customer doesn't have to really manage anything on prem fuel, >>Which must've been a huge advantage in the last year and a half when it was so hard to get to the on-prem locations. Right. >>That's exactly right. And this is one of the clear differentiators, you know, against, uh, you know, with, um, uh, compared to the legacy systems, because in legacy backup and disaster recovery systems, you need to manage your, not just your target tourists, but also, you know, the Asians and, you know, all the stuff that, uh, uh, all the software that goes along with that, uh, data production and, uh, and the disaster recovery solution. And so by T and Matt upgrades and patches and so on. And so what we do with, with a SAS based approach is take away that burden away from customer. So we deliver this entire service as a SAS first as a cloud service first, um, uh, delivery mechanisms of customers are don't have water. You don't have to whatever any of those things. >>And that's critical, especially as we've seen in the last 18 months with what's been going on the challenge of getting to locations, but also what's been happening as we talked about in the cybersecurity space, on the increase, the massive increase in ransomware. Talk to me a little bit about, I want to dig in before we go about some of the ways that you've simplified and integrated the way to backup VMware cloud on AWS. Talk to me a little bit more about some of those enhancements specifically. Yeah, >>Yeah. So, um, a lot of the customers, customers, as you know, are, uh, you know, have a dual pronged approach where they have, you know, some workloads running on prem and they have some workloads running and the VMware cloud on AWS and for BNB, uh, for VMs that are running on VMware cloud on AWS. Um, you know, now they have a choice of, uh, of protecting, protecting the data and the VM very simply, uh, using the McLaurin disaster cloud disaster recovery. And what that means is that they don't need to have the full band BR solution, but they can simply protect the data and automatically restore and recover of data. If they, you know, if there's a corruption or something goes wrong with their, uh, you know, the beans, they can simply restore the data without going through an entire field processes. So we provide a simplified way for customers to automatically protect data, and then that are running on VMware cloud on AWS. And that's a, and it's fully integrated with our cloud on AWS, you know, workflows. And, um, and so that's a great win for anyone who's, who's migrating data man workloads into BMC >>Is the primary objective of that to deliver a business resiliency. Dr. >>Both actually that's, that's, that's, that's a great part about that. You know, that's a bit part of the solution is that customers don't have to choose between Dr and business resiliency. They get both with a single solution. They can start off, it's a specific business resiliency and protecting the data, but if they choose to, they can them, uh, you know, add BR as well to that, to those workflows. And so it's not either, or it's both. >>Excellent. Got it. Any other enhancements that you guys are announcing at the Emerald this year? >>Yeah. I just want to reiterate the announcements and the key enhancements and the making, making, uh, you know, the balancing beam. Well, um, the first one, as I said is, uh, uh, is 30 minutes RPO. So customers that are business critical workloads can now pro protect the data and be guaranteed that they're, you know, the, the, you know, the demo data, the data that they, um, you know, they lag behind it's, it's in the 30 minute range and not in the other screens, like with other legacy backup solutions. That's one. The second is the integration, uh, as all enhancements that, you know, that I just talked about for ransom recovery, single file, thin file restore. Um, they always had, you know, number of snapshots and, you know, failure was and so on, but silverish was a key and that's what they've been making for a ransomware recovery. And the third one is the integration with BNB coordinator. So the fully integrated solution and provides a simple, you know, sort of plug and play solution for any workload that's funding in being AWS. Those are the three Tiki announcements. There's a lot more in, um, in the world. So you'll see that in the coming weeks and months, but these are the three on to get the input, >>A lot of enhancements to a solution that was launched just about a year ago. VJ, thank you for sharing with us. What's new with VMware cloud DVR, the enhancements, what you're doing, and also how it's enabling customers to recover from that ever pressing, increasing threat of ransomware. We appreciate your thoughts and likewise for VJ Ramachandra and I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching the cubes coverage of VMworld 2021.

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem barters >> Welcome back to the cubes coverage of Day one of Sisqo Live from Sunny San Diego on Lisa Martin, my co hostess student. A man and Stuart are pleased to welcome a couple of guests from this Cisco platform and Solutions Group. We've got Barbara Half Li, senior director of Business development Barbeque. Great to have you nice to be here. And Matt Ferguson, director of product development. Matt, Welcome. >> Thank you. Nice to be here. >> So we appreciate you guys being here right at the start of happy hour here in San Diego. Thank you. Some our drinking water. Right wing quick. Just getting so, Barbara. So here we are at this's the 30th year Cisco's partner and customer, then a lot. A lot happens in 30 years. A lot of change here we are customers in every industry, living in this multi cloud hybrid world for many reasons. >> What are some >> of the things from the business perspective that you're hearing from customers? What are they looking to Sisko to do to help them traverse this new multi cloud world successfully. >> Yeah, well, one of the things that we hear customers tell us often is how doe I manage this landscape. Many people think of the cloud is just Oh, I've got a public cloud or oh, I'm gonna have my cloud on primp. But really, with the explosion of devices and I ot right, people want to know. How do we take that data from the edge from the edge? What do I do with that data? Do I put it up in a public cloud immediately? Do I bring it back to do some kind of analysis on that data? Is it goto a polo? Does it come to the branch doesn't go to the headquarters and that landscapes Very complex. So you look across that landscape and as customers of either proactively adopted the public cloud or had to adopt multiple clouds because of acquisitions they've made, this landscape just gets incredibly complex very, very quickly. So when people come to Cisco, they basically looking for a couple of things. Number one security. Because putting the security wrapper around all of that right, it becomes paramount. People lose their jobs if they're data isn't protected, so they want help with their security. They also want to know what's the best cost mix, right? How do I have the right options available to me? But the other thing they really want is speed of innovation. I mean, we hear this over and over and over. Uh, I talked to a bank the other day. 100 year old bank, right? You think 100 year old bank, um, speed of innovation may not be top of their priority, but absolutely. I walked in and they held up the phone and they said, Our competitors Aire delivering capabilities faster for the mobile user. And every time our competitors releases a new application or a new feature, I lose market share. So it isn't about cost savings anymore. It's about speed of innovation, even for 100 year old bank. When they come to Cisco, they want to know. Can you help secure this landscape? Can you give me speed of innovation? And then, of course, every cloud started the networking layer as well, Right? So what innovations is Cisco doing on the networking side? So these are some of the things that's customers come to Cisco and they ask us, what can you do for us and the help that they want? It comes back to innovation every time. >> Barbara. Actually, I've talked to some of those 100 year old Cos they need it more than ever, because that five year old bank doesn't have all the legacy and they're already moving is fast. But it's an interesting point. Matt. You know, we've been tracking community since the early days. This year, it finally feels like it's gotten to a certain maturity level, such that I've talked to a number of customers talking about how that is a lever for their digital transformation, how they're modernizing their application, pork portfolio and not just, you know, the, you know, making of the sausage of how this, you know, container orchestration, layers going toe, you know, do something that most people won't understand. It's that connection with the business kind of building up. What what robber says They're bring us inside a little bit more. You know the community's piece of that, >> Yeah, it's absolutely been tremendous to see the CNC F and Kume con absolutely just take off on the number of people that are attending. I think you been at ease as as a technology is really starting to hit its stride in the mainstream. It's a combination. I think of a number of factors. You have the developer community that's starting to really sort of embrace containers as they sort of re fact to their applications. So you have that going on, and then you have the ops persona or the people that actually have to manage and deploy the Cuban in these clusters that are starting to dive in and go waken. Take this on. We know what it means to actually manage a Cuban aunties cluster. The thing that what we're bringing, I think at Cisco is, ah, a curated staff. The opinionated stack, the ability to manage those clusters ability to actually deploy those clusters, whether it's on prime in the private in the private cloud, or leveraging the AP eyes that eight of us or Google or sure would publicly provide so that you can manage those clusters in the in the actual public's places. Well, so you have a combination of factors that are starting to come together. They're really sort of said, This is the opportunity that we're starting to see it happen right now. >> How would container ization looking at that example that Barber gave of the 100 year old bank needing to transform quickly? Otherwise, there there's so much competition, but not from your perspective. How what are some of the biggest advantage is that a legacy organization like 100 year old make is going to get by adopting containers. >> Yeah, so containers is one thing. So speed of innovation where they actually have to take their application. Asians, let's, for example, as a developer, you're have taken your monolithic applications re factor than into micro services. Now you have one piece of code turning into multiple different pieces of code in containers. Now what you have to do is you have to manage those containers, and that's where Cuban aunties comes in to be ableto orchestrate. Those containers in Google has really sort of offered this technology to the community, and that's where I think you know. You have the history of Google's, you know, operational sort of expertise, the open source ability to take uber Netease and then Sisko to sort of wrap around the lifecycle management of those containers so that you can not think about how, like the note operating system, the doctor run time, all the pieces that make up that stack and let the developers just focus on their code. And that's really what we're trying to do is enable the developers to focus on their code and not have, you know, on entire team of folks managing the cluster itself. >> So, Barbara, it's an open source community. There's a lot of partners involved. So what leads customers? Teo, turn to Sisko for these type of solutions. What differentiates them >> when you when you look at a company trying to do it on their own, I'm going to go do it is a service I'm gonna offer. Containers is a service right to do it on their own. Could take a year or more. I talked to a entertainment company the other day, and they had been working on trying to just define the requirements to do a container platform for a year. So if they could come to a company like Cisco and they can buy the container platform, we have as a sass offering, have it up and running in a matter of hours, which we have presidents of it running up in a couple of couple of hours and then delivering containers is a service to their constituents. It makes the team you're oh, right when you also look at how much it takes to curate that and then maintain it over time, the ability for us to actually consume the changes from the open source community curate that and release it is very fast. So from a nightie perspective, a nightie administrators perspective, you're able to take that offer it to the community, allow them to do development wherever they want to develop, whether it's in the public cloud, whether it's on from but maintain that, control it within the community, then you've got something right, and I mean, Matt could talk about that, too. But But then he'll agree. When we go to all the customers what our container pop firm does, how it leverages Coover Netease. How fast we give the updates out to our customers, and at the price point they are why we're talking about a month, two months. It is a pretty phenomenal opportunity for administrators to get something up and running an offering to their community very, very quickly. >> Yeah, No, you bring up some great points. They remember a couple of years ago when I talk to most customers, it's like, Well, what's your stack? Well, I pull these 35 different tools and I build all this stuff and I'm like, and I'm sorry, Don't you remember when we went to Cloud? It's about getting rid of that undifferentiated heavy lifting. Exactly why is this mission critical for your business to build and maintain this stack? And of course, the interest is for most customers out there. I want to consume it in platforms and from vendors that I trust so that I can focus on what's important in my business and drive the those business drivers. So it was a maturity thing for some of those early customers. So that Ari there, I mean, because Sisko, you've got your Cisco Container platform. You partner with the aid of Lewis's Googles. The world. Yeah, you know, Are we getting that point where customers shouldn't need to even think about that? That there's that communities and service measures and all that stuff in the >> middle of the number one goal is simplicity. And and what I would say with the container platform is that we are leveraging the speed of innovation that's occurring at the public cloud. So we're not taking a a curated stack from Cisco and putting it on the public cloud. We're leveraging the speed of innovation that that the public cloud provides. But at the same time, we're also taking that that cluster and we're putting it on crime into a private cloud. And I say Right now you're the point you're making is spot on, You know you don't necessarily in an ice tea shop with developers managing that entire stack from top to bottom. You know, why would you want to do that? And a recent quote that I heard recently was you either purchase or buy the product or you are the product, and I think that's a fascinating way to look at it because, you know, you could do that, you could curate it. You could absolutely, from top to bond curate the entire stock. But what typically happens that we're seeing from customers is well, um, organizations move on. They might not necessarily know what was built. They might be code that goes, gets older and expires, or you know gets out of dates. And so now you get stuck in an environment where your not terrified. But there's a nervousness, trepidation of going. I don't know, Let's not break it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And that's a lot of times what happens in these stacks. So I think we're absolutely with the CCP and the public how we're starting to actually get to that. >> So, Barbara, last question for you talking about the speed of innovation and when you were describing the massive fast R A Y customers can get by working with you guys from a container solution perspective, it's It's a no brainer as we look at some of the things that we know were coming. The wave of connectivity changes. Five. G WiFi sex. What excites you about how Cisco's story from a container platform perspective is going to change? Change as you start building and crisis that continued building technologies for these networks that are primarily wireless and incredibly fast. >> I think that's exciting for me is the way we approach the architecture, er way we're looking at certainly being more open, everything we do, building it with open AP eyes uh, and and looking across that Cisco stack knowing that at this moment in time, if you would've asked us five years ago Where are you? In cloud, Right? If you would've asked us 10 years ago, what are you going to do in Cloud? But at this moment in time to look at how we differentiate ourselves like I mentioned, every cloud started to the network. You've got to secure the entire infrastructure. You've gotta have connectivity between the clouds. Hence the CCP, the container platform, right. You have to have cloud management. You have to have cloud analytics way. Bring all of that together. So if a company has made investments and Cisco in the past, those those investments are going to come forward in this new multi cloud, multi tool man's domain landscape. And they can leverage those investments while they continue to invest with Cisco in innovations. And and that's what that's what really excites me. I think also just the world of a I and ML and big data And how when excites me is that developers Khun develop anywhere they can use all the great tools that are available. And I love the idea that the control is back in the hands of the I t administrator. From a compliance standpoint from a governance stand like we're bringing that control back into developers hands while giving the speed of innovation and the ability to develop anywhere back to the line of business in the developers. That combination is just really exciting at this moment in time. >> Awesome. And here we are in the definite zone. This is a massive community of over nearly 600,000. Strong, definite. So can you imagine all the innovation going on in this room behind us on day one? We'll we thank you both so much, Barbara, and not for joining stew and me on the A kid this afternoon. Lots of exciting things to come. Francisco or just the as I think, Chuck said this morning, were just getting started. >> We are just getting started. >> Absolutely. >> Guys are pleasure. Forced to mint a man, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching The Cube from Cisco Live 2019

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this special Cube Conversation. We're here in Palo Alto, California with a special guest. Dialing in remotely Paul Martino, the founder of Bullpen Capital and also the producer of an upcoming film called The Inside Game. It's a story about a true story about an NBA betting scandal. It's really, it's got everything you want to know. It's got sports, it's got gambling, it's got fixing of games. Paul Martino, known for being a serial entrepreneur and then an investor, investing in some great growth companies, and now running his own firm called Bullpen Capital, which bets on high-growth companies and takes them to the next level. Paul, great to see you. Thanks for spending the time. Good to see you again. >> John, always good to see you. Thanks for having me on the show. >> So, you're a unique individual. You're a computer science whiz, investor, entrepreneur, now film producer. This story kind of crosses over your interests. Obviously in Philly, you're kind of like me, kind of a blue collar kind of guy. You know hot starters when you see it. You also were an investor in a lot of the sports, gambling, betting, kind of online games, we've talked about in the past. But now you're crossing over into filming movies. Which is, seems like very cool and obviously we're living in a date of digital media where code is software, code is content, obviously we believe that. What's this movie all about? All the buzz is out there, Inside Game. You get it on sports radio all the time. Give us the scoop. Why Inside Game? What's it about? Give us the 411. >> Yeah, so John, I mean, this is a story that picked me. My producing partner in this is a guy named Michael Pierce who made a bunch of great movies, including The Cooler, one of the best gambling movies, with William H Macy. And he says sometimes the movie picks you and sometimes you pick the movie. And I wasn't sitting around one day going wow I want to be a movie producer, it was just much more that my cousin is the principal in the story. My cousin was the go-between between the gambler and the referee. The three of them were friends ever since they were kids. And when they all got out of jail Tommy called me, Tommy Martino. He said hey Paulie, you're about the only legitimate business guy I know. Could you help me with my life rights? And that's how this started almost six years ago. >> And what progressed next? You sat down, had a couple cocktails, beers, said okay here's how we're going to structure it. Was it more brainstorming and then it kind of went from there? Take us through that progression. >> It was a pure intellectual property exercise, and this is where being a startup guy was helpful. I was like, Tommy, I'll buy your life rights. Maybe we'll get a script written, we'll put it on the shelf, so that if anybody ever wants to make this story they have to go through us. Almost like a blocking patent or a copyright. And he's like okay cool. And so I said I have no delusions of ever making this movie. I actually don't know that, I don't know anybody to make a movie. This is not my skill set. But if anybody ever wants to make the movie, they're going to have to come deal with us. And then the lucky break happens, like anything in a startup. I have this random meeting with a guy named Michael Pierce, who was at a firm called WPS Challenger out of London. And we're down in Hillstone in Santa Monica, and I say to him, I say I've got this script written about this NBA betting scandal, would you do me a favor? He literally laughs in my face. He goes a venture guy from Silicon Valley is going to hand me a script. What a bad, anyway, I was like look dude, I'm a good guy to have owe you a favor so just read this dang thing. About 8 hours later my phone rings, he says who the hell is Andy Callahan? This is the best script I've ever read in my entire life. Let's go make a movie. Andy Callahan was a friend of a friend from high school who wrote the script. He actually once beat Kobe Bryant when he was a center at Haverford when Kobe Bryant played at Lower Merion here in the Philly suburbs. So, it's kind of this local Philly story. I'm a local Philly blue collar guy, we put the pieces together, and I'll be danged and now six years later the film is in the can and you're probably going to see it during the NBA finals this year in June. >> All right, so there's some news out there it's on the cover on ESPN Magazine, the site is now launched. I've been hearing buzz all morning on this in the sports radio world. A lot of buzz, a lot of organic virality around it. Reminds of the Crazy, Rich Asians, which kind of started organically, similar kind of community behind it. This has really got some legs to it. Give us some taste of what's some of the latest organic growth here around the buzz. >> Yeah so, think about this. This happened in, primarily '06 and '07. They were sentenced in 2010 and were in jail in 2011. It is 2019 and the front page story on ESPN is What Tim, Tommy, and Jimmy Battista Did. Those were the three guys, the gambler, the ref, and the go-between. And this is a front page story on ESPN all these years later. So we know this story has tremendous legs. We know this movie has a tremendous built-in audience. And so now it's just our job to leverage all those marketing channels, places we pioneered, like Zynga and FanDuel to get people who care about the story into the theaters. And we're hoping we can really show people how to do a modern way to market a film using those channels we've pioneered at places like FanDuel and Zynga. >> You and I have had many conversations privately and here on the Cube in the past around startups disruption, and it's the same pattern right? No one thinks it's a great idea, you get the rights to it, and you kind of got to find that inflection point, that magical moment which comes through networking and just hard work and hustle. And then you've got everything comes together. And then it comes together. And then it grows. As the world changes, you're seeing digital completely change the game on Hollywood. For instance, Netflix, you've got Prime, you've got Hulu. This is, essentially, a democratization, I'm not saying, well first of all you've made some money so you had some dough to put into it, but here's a script from a friend. You guys put it together. This is now the new startup model going to Hollywood. Talk about that dynamic, what's your vision there? Because this, I think, is an important signal in how digital content, whether it's guys in the Cube doing stuff or Cube Studios, which we'll, we have a vision for. This is something that's real. Talk about the dynamic. How do you see the entrepeneurial vision around how movies are made, how content's made, and then, ultimately, how they're merchandised in the future. >> Right, there's a whole, there's a whole bunch of buckets. There's the intellectual property bucket of the story, the script, etc. Then there's the bucket of getting the movie made. You know, that's the on the set and that's the director and that's post-production, and then there's the marketing. And what was really interesting is even though I'd never made a movie, two of those three buckets I knew a tremendous amount about from my experience as a startup investor. The marketing and the IP side I understood almost completely, even though I'd never made a film. And so all of the disruptive technologies that we learn for doing disruptive things like marketing a new thing called Daily Fantasy Sports, we were able to bring to bear to this film. Now, I had fun on the set and meeting all the actors, etc. But I had no delusion that I knew about the making of the movie part. So I plead ignorance there, but of the three buckets that you need to go make something in the media space 66% of what I knew as a startup guy overlapped and I think this is what the future of the media is. Because guys like me and you, John, we actually know a lot about this because we're startup people as opposed to we have to learn about it in terms of how to market and how to get an audience. I mean, my last company Aggregate Knowledge designs custom audiences for ad targeting. So we know how to find gamblers to go see this movie. That's literally the company I started. And so that's a thing that I'm very, very comfortable with and it's exciting to then work with the producer who did the creative and the director and I say hey guys, I've got this marketing thing under control, I know how to do it, oh by the way, the old Head of Marketing from FanDuel, he's a consultant to the project. Right, so, we got that. >> You got that, and the movie's being made. That's also again, back to entrepreneurship, risk. You got to take risks, right? This is all about risk management at the end of the day and you know, navigating as the lead entrepreneur, getting it done, there's heavy lifting and costs involved in making the movie, >> Right >> How did you, that's like production, right? You got to build a product. That is ultimately the product when it has to get to market. How did that go, what's your thoughts on your first time running a movie like this, from a production standpoint, learnings, observations? >> I learned a tremendous amount. I must admit, I was along for the ride on that piece of the puddle, puzzle. The product development piece of this was all new to me. But then again, I mean think about it, John, I started four companies, a social network, an ad targeting company, a game company, and a security company. I didn't know anything about those four companies when I started them either in terms of what the product needed to do. So learning a new product called make a movie was kind of par for the course, even though I didn't really know anything about it. You know, if you're going to be a startup person you got to have no fear. That's the real attribute you need to have in these kinds of situations. >> So I got to >> And so, witnessed that first-hand and, you know what, now, if I ever make a movie again I kind of know how to make that product. >> Yeah, well looking forward. You've got great instincts as an entrepreneur. I love hanging out with you. I got to ask you a question. I talk to a lot of young people, my son and his friends and I see people coming out of business school, all this stuff. You know, every college has an entrepreneurial program. Music, film, you know, whatever, they all have kind of bolted on entrepreneurship. You're essentially breaking down that kind of dogma of that you have to have a discipline. Anyone can do this, right? So talk about the folks that are out there, trying to be entrepreneurial, whether you're a musician. This is direct to consumer. If you have skills as an entrepreneur it translates. Talk about what it takes to be an entrepreneur, if you're a musician or someone who has, say, content rights or has content story. What do they do? What's your advice? >> We have lived through, perhaps the most awesome period of the last five to 10 years, where it got cheap to do a startup. You know, when we're doing our first startups 20 years ago, it cost 5 million bucks to go get a license from Oracle and go hire a DBA and do all that stuff. You know what, for 5 grand you can get your website up, you can build, you can use your iPhone, you can film your movie. That's all happened in the last five to 10 years. And what it's done is exactly the word you used. It's democratized who can become an entrepreneur. Now people who never thought entrepreneurship was for them, are able to do it. One of our great examples of this is Ipsy, our cosmetics company. You know, Michelle Phan was a cocktail waitress working in Florida, but she had this YouTube following around watching her videos of her putting her makeup on. And you know when we met her, we're like you know what? You're the next generation of what entrepreneurs look like. Because no, she didn't go to Stanford. She didn't have a PhD in computer science, but she knew what this next generation of content marketing was going to look like. She knew what it was to be a celebrity influencer. You know, that company Ipsy makes hundreds of millions of dollars every year now, and I don't think most people on Sand Hill would've necessarily given Michelle the chance because she didn't look like what the traditional entrepreneur looked like. So it's so cool we live in a time where you don't need to look like what you think an entrepreneur needs to look like or went to the school you had to think you'd go to to become an entrepreneur. It's open to everybody now. >> And the key to success, you know, again, we've talked about those privately all the time when we meet, but I want to get your comment on the record here. But I mean, there's some basic blocking and tackling that's independent of where you went to school that's being creative, networking, networking, networking, you know, and being, good hustle. And being, obviously good judgment and being smart. Do your thoughts on the keys to success for as those folks saying hey you know I didn't have to go to these big, fancy schools. I want to go out there. I want to test my idea. I want to go push the envelope. I want to go for it. What's the tried and true formula from your perspective? >> So when you're in the early stage of hustling and you want to figure out if you're good at being an entrepreneur, I tell entrepreneurs this all the time. Every meeting is a job interview. Now, you might not think it's a job interview, but you want to think about every meeting, this might be the next person I start my company with. This might be the person I end up hiring to go run something at my company. This might be the person I end up getting money for, from to start my company. And so show up, have some skills, have some passion, have a vision, and impress the person on the other side of the table. Every once in a while I get invited to a college and they're like well Paul, life's easy for you, you started a company with Mark Pinkus and you're friend with Reid Hoffman and this... Well how the hell do you think I met those people? I did the same thing I'm telling you to do. When I was nobody coming out of school, I went and did stuff for these guys. I helped them with a business plan. I wrote the code of Tribe, and then now all of the sudden we've got a whole network of people you can go to. Well, that didn't happen by accident. You had to show up and have some skills, talent, and passion and then impress the person on the other side of the table. >> Yeah >> And guess what? If you do that enough times in a row, you're going to end up having your own network. And then you're going to have kids come in and say, wow, how can I impress you? >> Be authentic, be genuine, hustle, do networking, do the job interview, great stuff. All right, back to final point I want to get your thoughts on because I think this is your success and getting this movie out of the gate. Everyone, first, everyone should go see Inside Game. Insidegamemovie.com is the URL. The site just went up. This should be a great movie. I'm looking forward to it, and knowing the work that went in, I followed your journey on this. It should be great. I'm looking forward to seeing it. Uh, digital media, um, your thoughts because we're seeing a direct to consumer model. You've got the big companies, YouTube, Amazon, others. There's kind of a, a huge distribution of those guys. The classic Web 2.0 search kind of paradigm and portal. But now you've got a whole 'nother set of distribution or network effects. Your thoughts, because you were involved in, again, social networking before it became the monster that it is now. How is digital media changing? What's your vision of how that's happening and how does someone jump on that wave and be successful? >> Yeah, we're in the midst of disruption. I mean, I'm in the discussions and final negotiations right now on how we're going to end up ultimately doing the film distribution. And I am very disappointed with the quality of the thinking of the people on the other side of the table. Because they come from very traditional backgrounds. And I'm talking to them about, I want to do a site takeover across Zynga. I want to do a digital download on FanDuel of a 20 minute clip of the film. And they're like what's FanDuel? Who's Zynga? And I'm sitting there, I'm like guys, this is the new media. Oh, by the way, there's a sports app called Wave and Wave is where the local influencers in the markets who want to write the stories are, and we want to do a deal with those guys. And oh, by the way, the CEO of that company is a buddy of mine I met years ago, right? One of those kids I gave advice to, and now I'm going to ask him for a favor from, right, that's how it works. But, it's amazing when you have these conversations with traditional old line media companies. They don't understand any of the words coming out of your mouth. They're like Paul, here's how much I'll give you for your film. Thank you, we'll go market it. I'm like, really? Seriously? I got the former CMO of FanDuel going to help out on this. You don't want to talk to him? >> Yeah >> And so this is where the industry is really ripe for disruption. Because the people from the startup world have already disrupted the apple cart and now we've just got to demonstrate that this model is going to continue to work for the future and be ready when the next new kind of digital transmedia thing comes along and embrace that, as opposed to be scared to death of it or not even know how to talk the language of the people on it. >> Well, you're doing some amazing venturing in your, kind of, unique venture capital model on Bullpen Capital. Certainly isn't your classic venture capital thing, so I'm sure people are going to be talking to you about oh, Paul, are all VCs going to be doing movies? I'm sure that's a narrative that's out there. But you're not just a normal venture capital. You certainly invest. So, venture capitals have reputation issues right now. People talk about, well, you know, they're group think. You know, they only invest in who they see themselves. You mentioned that comment there. The world's changing in venture. Your thoughts on that, how you guys started your firm, and your evolution of venture capital. And is this a sign that you'll see venture capitalists go into movies? >> Well, I don't know about that part. There have been a couple venture people who have done movies. But the part I will talk about is the you got to know somebody, it's an inside game, ha ha, we'll play double entendre on Inside Game here. You know, 20% of the deal we've done at Bullpen, we've done over 100. 20% of them were cold emails on something like LinkedIn or business plans at bullpen.com. 20%, now there's this old trope in venture if you don't get a warm intro I won't even talk to you. Well 20% of our deals came in and we had no idea who the person on the other side was. That's how we run the firm. And so if you're out there going I'm one of those entrepreneurs in the Midwest and no one, I don't know anyone. I'm not in a network, send me a plan. I'm someone who's going to look at it. It doesn't mean I'm going to be an investor, but you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to give you a shot. And I don't care where you're from or what school you went to or what social clique you're in or what your political persuasion is. Matter of fact, I literally don't care. I'm going to give you a shot. Come into my office and that, I think, is what was missing in a lot of firms, where it's a we only do security and we only look at companies that spun out of Berkeley and Stanford. And yeah, there can be an old boys network in that. But you know what, we like to talk to everybody. And the more blue collar the CEO is, the more we love them at Bullpen. >> That's awesome. Talk about the movie real quick on terms of how Hollywood's handling it. Um, expectations, in terms of reaction, was it positive, is it positive, what's the vibe going on in Hollywood, is this going to be a grassroots kind of thing around the FanDuels and your channels? What's your plan for that and what's the reaction of Hollywood? >> So it's going to be a lot of all of the above. But PR is going to be a huge component, I mean, part of the reason we're on today is there's a huge front page story on ESPN about Tim Donaghy and the NBA betting scandal of 2007. And so the earned media is going to be a huge component of this. And I think this is where the Hollywood people do understand the language we're speaking. We're like, look, we have a huge built-in audience that we know how to market to. We have a story. Actually, in the early days, you asked about risk? Back when I was thinking about if I would do this project I would do the following little market research. I'd walk into a sports bar, it didn't matter what town I was in. I could be in Dallas, I could be in Houston, I could be in Boston. I would literally walk up to the bar and say, hey, uh, six of you at the bar, ever hear of Tim Donaghy? It'd be amazing. About seven out of 10 people would go yeah he was the referee, crooked referee in the NBA. I'm like, this is amazing. Seven out of 10 people I meet in a bar know about the story I want to go tell. That sounds like a good chance to make a movie, as opposed to a movie that has no built-in audience. And so, a built-in audience with PR channels that we know work, I think we can really show Hollywood how to do this in a different way if this all works. >> And this comes back to my point around built-in audiences. You know, YouTube has got a million subscribers. That's kind of an old metric. That means they, like an RSS feed kind of model. That's a million people that are, could be, amplifying their network connections. It is a massive built-in audience. The iteration, the DevOps kind of mindset, we talk about cloud computing, can be applied to movies. It's agile movie making. That's what you're talking about. >> Yeah, and by the way, so we have a social network of all the actors and people in the film. So when it's ready, let's go activate our network of all the actors that are in the film. Each of them have a couple million followers. So let's go be smart. Let's, two weeks before the movie, let's send some screenshots. A week before the movie let's show some exclusive videos. Two days before the film, go see it, it's now out in the theaters. You know what, that's pretty, that's 101. We've got actors. We've got producers. Like, let's go use the influencer network we built that actually got the movie made. Let's go on Sports Talk, talk about the movie. Let's go on places like this and talk about how a venture guy made a movie. This is the confluence of all of the pieces all coming together at once. And I just don't think enough people in the film business or in the media business think big enough about going after these audiences. It's oh, we're going to take ads out on TV and I'm going to see my trailer and we're going to do this and that's how we do it. There's so many better ways to get your audience now. >> And this is going to change, just while I've got you here, it's just awesome, awesome conversation. Bringing it back to kind of the CMO in big companies, whether it's consumer or B to B or whatever, movies, the old model of here's our channels. There's certainly this earned media kind of formula and it's not your classic we've got a website, we're going to do all this instrumentation, it's a whole 'nother mechanism. So talk about, in your opinion, the importance of earned media, vis a vis the old other buckets. Owned media, paid media, well-defined Web 1.0, Web 2.0 tactics, earned media is not just how good is our PR? It's actually infrastructure channels, it's networks, a new kind of way to do things. How relevant and how important will this be going forward? Because there's no more website. It's a, you're basically building a media company for this movie. >> That is exactly right. We're building an ad hoc media business. I think this is what the next generation of digital agencies are going to look like. And there are some agencies that we've talked to that really understand all of what you've just said. They are few and far between, unfortunately. >> Yeah, well, Paul, this was theCube. We love talking to people, making it happen. Again, our model's the same as yours. We're open to anyone who's got signal, and you certainly are doing a great job and great to know you and follow your entrepreneur journey, your investment journey, and now your film making journey. Paul Martino, General Pen on Bullpen Capital, with the hot film Inside Game. I'm definitely going to see it. It should be really strong and it's going to be one of those movies like Crazy, Rich Asians, where not looking, not really well produced, I mean not predicted to be great and then goes game buster so I think this is going to be one of those examples. Paul, thanks for coming on. >> Love it, thank you! >> This Cube Conversation, I'm John Furrier here in Palo Alto, California, bringing ya all the action. Venture capitalist turned film maker Paul Martino with the movie Inside Game. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (triumphant music)

>> Mine from Las Vegas. It's the cute covering knowledge sixteen brought to you by service. Now carry your host, Dave Alon and Jeff Rick. >> Welcome back to knowledge. Sixteen. Everybody, This is the Cube. Silicon Angles, flagship product. We go out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise Bart Murphy is. Here's the CTO of York Risk Services group. Mark. Good to see again. Good to see you. But thank you for having me. So what's been going on this week? Busy week. What you been doing this week has >> been busy. I've been doing a couple different things. One on the CIA decisions track, you know, collaborated on with those folks and getting some sessions in from service now and then on the partner side. You know, talking to customers, checking out and enjoying the the key notes on seeing what's new on the platform. Very exciting. >> Did you see Secretary Gates last night? We were, unfortunately, >> got pulled out for a call, So I >> think that's the >> one thing I did miss. You >> want to call me on that? One of things, he said, which I want to ask you about a former CEO. See XO now? Hey, said that consensus management don't bother now speaking to watch the CEO's as the CEO, yeah, it's a >> challenge. I think you know, there's there's one component that you have to devise, a strategy that you know a sound, and you have to have some resolve to help sell it. So I see that component of it. But the other is to sell that vision and get other people bought it. So, you know, I think there is a and consensus component from that, certainly from the executive team. And then you have to go sell it to your organization as well. And I think that truly doesn't come from just talking about the vision or the business case. It's from actually delivering the software and delivering the services and doing in an incremental basis that allows them to see and gain value from that, that that's what you build your credibility up on. And I think then that's what helps sell it. >> So you've gone through a few changes personally, your company. So take us through the care works acquisition. Sure, so >> careless family companies was required by your Chris Services Group S O. We're now part of a larger organization and national organization, Although care works itself had a few of the companies that had national footprint, a majority of them were primarily based in Ohio. So strategically great fit a great company. I moved into the corporate CTO roll about Oh, a year, year and a half after the acquisition, and I've been really trying to build out the entire enterprise strategy from a night perspective because they just they had procured a lot of acquired a lot of companies over a two to three year time span. And so we need to really invest a lot of time on what the future state of it is going to look like. >> So it's interesting gone from CEO to CTO. People talk coming to Cuba to talk about the role of the CIA. He'LL talk about all the time, and there'd been someone put forth the notion that the CEO eventually is going to have to choose a path, technical path or business path. You know, maybe both at different times. Do you subscribe to that, or do you see the CEO role is continuing on a CZ? We've known it. Yeah, >> we don't have a separate CIA and CTO I oversee the including operations. To me from a title perspective, I just want to have the organization view that that role is part of innovation. We have a chief innovation officer as well, but from a technology perspective, I think it's very difficult to run operations if you don't have a good grass for the technology in the platform. So regardless of the roller or title that they gave me, I think it's more about what are you managing on? And I don't want to ever be broken up between sort of SETI role that may be more focused on newer technology projects and then a CIA on Lee based on building our run methods. I want to make sure that those organizations are always combined because you're going to build much better software if you also have to support it. We also want to make sure that the automation is in place so that we have our support organization in mind when we actually deploy new platforms, new applications, new systems. >> So you see yourself as a software company. >> You know we do. We're in the wrist services business, so we are, ah, services provider, two carriers to large self insured Teo Large Claims organization. So we see ourselves. A lot of what we do is differentiated by our technology. Whether that's, you know, better business process, outsourcing functions or ability to do Bill review faster, more accurately. So our CEO definitely sees us as a technology company, and that's why there's a lot of investment in time being put into sort of build out what that future state of it is going to look like. >> What what do you do with service now? These days? How did the acquisition affect that and where you had it? >> Well, so we just went live with Yorker Services Group on service now is Platform on Geneva, and that's actually a separate production instance that we have with care work. So we deployed the care works instance in early two thousand eleven, late two thousand ten in that time frame, and there were, you know, there's a ton of customization a lot, you know, very solid platform for that family of companies with the York. There's a much larger scope that we wanted to address so very lucky again to be in that situation because I had an opportunity to start a redo and any time that you worked on a platform and you do it for a few years and then you get a chance to actually build again. So we really took more of an enterprise. I till out of the box type of approach s O that it could be flexible enough to manage across the entire enterprise, including all the acquired companies that we plan to pull onto the platform. And then that gives us time to figure out what was really the best out of our other platform that we want to, you know, retrofit back in. But the main reason I did that is to make sure that we could get some benefit out of the platform now and work and migrate into the business. Shared services functions within York that I think we're going to benefit very, very much from the new platform. >> So you've got a mulligan of sorts a little bit. >> Yeah, I got lucky on that on a little bit of the mulligan. And, you know, again, it's all about trying to make sure that we can come in and we just went live. You know, we're gonna have our challenges, like with any organizational change management solution, even just on the same side. But the cadence in which we're putting out releases to actually improve and bring on other shared services functions, I think, is where we will gain the majority of buying. >> So this notion here talked about a lot of this conference. The single cmd b yeah, is that something that you're able to achieve or working toward? Are you there? And absolutely, it's the goal. >> I mean, I don't know if you ever achieve it. I think it does take a lot of time. So the goal is to have everything in one platform for all of our companies across the board and to help facilitate automation, whether it's with GRC with the new security product that's coming out, which is, you know, something we're looking to get deployed in. Q three Q. Three Q For hopefully sooner rather than later. I just see there's a bunch of play on the automation orchestration side as it relates to tying in and tying an audit. Tien and Security on then also looking at business shared services and you know that's a whole different world of figuring out how can we help them? And we have ah operations service and are actually part of our next release. So I'll be very interested to see. You know, they do a lot of things manually like everybody does. He'LL be very keen to see how they see the platform and what they're going to come up with us, a strategy long term for them. >> So are you mentioned a couple times that York's made a number of acquisitions your company included, and don't give twenty four looking statements? Obviously, they're going to keep rolling up more things. But if you could speak to using service now as a vehicle to better integrate acquisitions, yeah, because for a lot of companies, that's a strategy. >> Yes, so and I actually have a strategy around that leveraging the platform is one of the main reasons that want to get it in now so that it could eventually build that. My whole goal there is the Leverage Performance Analytics on the way that I envisioned. Using that is, in many of the companies that we acquire, they will operate still, stand alone from a night perspective for some period of time. You know, whether that's six months, three months, two years until we can fully integrate him, whether it's network, you know, systems consolidation you name it. It takes a long time. It's not something that we have solved. So part of it is to be able to do modeling using Performance Analytics by pulling in the data so I can get them now onto this cloud platform because they don't need to be on network. I can have them operating their work within that platform for a period of a baseline period of time. And I could start to model that using Performance Analytics to say, How would that impact our enterprise? That's allies. Does it help our enterprise? That's always. Does it degrade our enterprise? That's the lace. Are they staffed appropriately to actually meet our enterprise? That's the lace and what our enterprises slaves. Once we start collecting all this data based on how we're staffed and how we're going to, you know, fund that transaction. So, >> Bart, if I understood it correctly, you have the dual role CEO slash CTO. Okay, is that there's the CSO report into you are he does. I saw Also he >> does. And so and that's ah, new rule that we established about a little less than a year ago. There was ah VP of corporate security. But we didn't have a chief information security officer s. So I we're not got a very season, see so and working not only as an internal what we do internally. Also within our tech company as well. We started cybersecurity practice. So everything we do, we try to make sure that we can actually support our technology investments from an enterprise perspective and be able to self serve ourselves as an enterprise. So very excited about that. That's why we're getting to the security components and some other products that we think will integrate extremely well into service. Now >> let's talk about that a little bit. I want to put forth the premise. You tell me, feel free to tell me the premise doesn't hold water. But it seems to us that there's been a shift in thinking about security from we'LL focus on you know, defense, defense, defense to one of you know we're going to get infiltrated. It's all about how we respond and I as the sea xo Whatever. See so CEO Seo, I can help lead that response. It's mechanism, but it's a team sport. Is that a valid premise? >> I think it's valid. I think you know, I think it's a little it is driving some change v f ear. But, you know, I think that, you know, is certainly from an external perspective can protect yourself pretty well. You know, a lot of the breaches were actually curve, and some of the cases were internal or through third party partners. So I think there's been a lot of additional due diligence being put on organization, especially as a service organization. We work with a lot of large insurance carriers as an example. So we are getting hit with a lot more requests and a lot more sort of assessments on what our controls are in that space. So we need to be mature, and that's based no matter what, since again, we're providing services to clients in this space, and we're collecting a good amount of claim data and bill data and medical data. So I'm not as going out staying okay, just when it's gonna happen and how we handle breach. If that's the case, I'm trying to figure out what are the ways that we can proactively manage our environment and be able to respond in a much faster fashion to isolate an issue as quickly as possible, which is why I'm really excited about the automation and security component within service now because properly integrated with similar tools that we have. There's a lot that the system conduce that a human can't get too fast enough that will actually shut down to manage that risk extremely well. >> Do you believe that the board level? There's sort of open and transparent communication that that it's not about If Wade get infiltrated, its we have been infiltrated and we will continue to be infiltrated. That discussion occur. >> I think, yeah, the board level. They're certainly more aware, and not just from their participation in our board for the companies that they run themselves, because many of these folks come from companies that their run themselves. So I think there's certainly an awareness I think they're demanding and wanting to have more concrete plans on what your corporate security strategy is going to be. So we've produced a three year plan on what that is and presented that our committee and are starting to communicate that all the way up, you know, through our CEO. So I think there's more awareness I I think that for whatever reason, people think that it hasn't been working on this for some time, but they have S o. You know, there's a lot of good things that we've already done and already put in place that people just need to be made aware of it and get up to speed if you will. And then there's. Here's what we're doing to invest in trying to stop future things or to be more proactive or tow, have better control. Is better auto practices this type of >> what's the right regime for a cyber security? In other words, who should be responsible for should be a single tech group? We Should it be a wider group. What responsibility? >> And no, it's it's it's It's by committee. So our committee included, you know, our general counsel, our CEO, our chief human resource officer, our CEO. So it it's a joint effort. Certainly there's a large component of it because many of it is about your defenses in your ability to manage and maintain and keep your data secure. But security is a company wide initiative. You know everything from training all the way down the associate level to not, you know, click on bad email links, right that no matter what you do and what type of in a virus you have and you're still going to get some of those fishing emails and some of those ransomware emails in those type of components. So there's a whole education put component that goes all the way down to the associate level. If that's not understood by the management over those groups, then you know how is it going to actually be distilled down and supported? So it's a complete company effort when it comes to corporate security. >> And how about >> the business lines? Because our research shows that a lot of organizations don't you don't even have the specifically answer for your organization. Just in your experience is the CEO and the CEO. If it seems as though a lot of businesses don't understand the value of their data or the value of their I p, and as a result, don't really know how to protect it, is that something that is challenging for organism >> Asians? I think it is least when I've talked to other clients potentially, I think less today than it was even five years ago. We certainly know the value of our data. I mean, there's been too many breaches in the large breaches in the past three years to not be aware. I have had that question asked ofyou on, even for a business perspective, understand the exposure. So you know they what is that? Hundred fifty hundred twenty five dollars per claim? Potentially on the data side. So people even put metrics around. It's you, Khun. Quickly go through and established what you think your overall exposure is from a dollar perspective and that starts toe. You know, open eyes when you have millions of claims, are even more millions of bills. >> And that's your business. So you would think you have a better understanding everything most. But so for those who don't how should they go about achieving that knowledge? That awareness, >> They should find someone that, you know, maybe some type of trusted advisor. You know, whether they need to hire a consulting company whether they need to go and just converse with another AA group like a CEO group and ask Hey, have you guys done this before? There's a ton of collaboration at that level where people are asking, Hey, how did you guys come up with your security road map on What did that >> look like? Because Because the value then drives your investment decisions, right, because that's the other thing is kind of like insurance. When is enough enough, You could always been Mohr, but at some point you're gonna have diminishing returns relative to the value. But you've gotta have a basis to set a budget. So I would imagine the value of the data, the value of the risk, whether its >> value brand right, so outside of the hard costs of potentially, you know, getting credit rating or those type of components. You know, there's there's the brand discussion, and I think that's somewhat invaluable. So, you know, budgets are just over. Go spend what you want, but there's certainly a lot of awareness that money needs to be spent that area. It needs to be spent wisely, but there hasn't been an issue as to either one. We're coming up with wild budgets for security but explaining what we're doing and why, and how cost effectively we're doing. It has been very well >> in thinking about how you communicate to the board Yeah, about cyber security. What would be the top two or three things that you would recommend that a C XO should have on his or her checklist? >> One is, you know, understanding all your end point, so understanding everything that's in your network. And it's an easy to say, but it's a very hard thing to do, especially when you have external facing applications. And you have a lot of different networks, so understanding your scope of devices and understand. You know, that way you could understand, to start to collect and fill up that C M G B and understand. Okay, if I have a patch that wasn't applied, how many devices were impacted? You know, how quickly can I get those remediated s so that you know, I think understanding the technical scope of your organization is important because it's very difficult to understand your risks, you know, rating if you will. If you don't understand the tools you have in place and where your potential holes maybe, ah, and then understanding you know your core data. So you know what is in your data that would potentially create a potential risk, even a financial risk? Certainly we go through all the insurance process, right? And even insurance now for cyber liability insurance. You know, the forms for five years ago were much different than the forms that are being filled out today. Much different. A lot more detail, a lot more drill down. So even just going through that process alone drives you to actually go and collect all this information that I'm talking about today, you know, so understanding your internal environment in understanding you know, those endpoints understanding the scope of your data management. And then I think it's around developing a sound strategy that is not just short term but short term and long term, with investments not just in tools, but also processes training those components. >> Did you look a tte security and responding to security is part of, ah, business continuity, as opposed to sort of a bespoke initiative. It is, There's business >> continuity and d are both have components of security, but it is truly what a way to ensure that you're you stay in business, right, and and And if people don't view it that way, then there's a lot of organizations that have been either crippled, not necessary put out of business but impacted extremely large. You know, financial impact with unmanaged breaches that actually went on way too long, right? And they weren't able to detect it, you know? So I think that there's a component there where you have to really think about what's the scope of the work, what the scope of the risk and how much do we need to invest? >> And you see service now. And I'm spending so much time in security this week because I'm excited about what I saw on Monday at the financial analyst meeting and who, talking to folks about this very important topic, you see, service now is playing a role in solving this problem. >> I do because we're a big user of GRC. So we already went down the audit route with service now years ago s Oh, this is just another extension I see of not just audit controls but being more proactive on the security side. And so, since all of our information is in this platform anyhow, we have a ton of opportunity toe automate and manage a lot of the things that again could have potentially gone unnoticed for a period of time simply because a manpower or logs if you ever had a review logs from some of these devices. I mean, trying to find the needle in the haystack is very difficult. So tools are extremely important in this space. Humans cannot meet this challenge alone at all. >> You just make a tad cloud. You wish, right? Awesome. Bart, this is I'LL give you the last word so that your impressions on knowledge sixteen. >> I'm excited, You know, the way it's grown again The way that they're really being purposeful about how they're building out their platform and truly trying to solve the enterprise problems to me is just it shows a very strategic, well thought out plan by service now. And as customers, you know and partners, you know, that's that's what you want to see from a company. So for me, I'm just very pleased where the platforms going. It's exciting how much they've grown. But the way that they've been able to invest in the right things, I feel and truly integrate things into the platform, even acquisitions that they had on and truly make it part of the platform versus and add on, I think, is really differentiating them from a lot of products that have grown in a similar matter but become unwieldy to manage because they're just pieced together. So I'm very, very excited, >> Fantastic. The cube securing knowledge for our audience that Bart, you have full of a lot of knowledge and really appreciate you coming on the Cuban and sharing. >> Yeah, appreciate it. Nice seeing you guys. >> All right, Keep it right there, everybody. We'LL be back with our next guests right after this. We're live knowledge. Sixteen from the Mandalay Bay Hotel in Las Vegas, right back. >> Every once in a while.

>> Q. At service now Knowledge fourteen is sponsored by service. Now here are your hosts, Dave Volonte and Jeff Frick. >> We're back. Sheila Jordan is here. She's the CEO of Symantec. We're live. This is the Cube. We're at service now. Knowledge fourteen at Mosconi in San Francisco. We're going to hear today, Wednesday and most of Thursday. So stop by. If you're at Mosconi, Mosconi south, Come in. Look to the right. Cuba's there. Stop by and say hello. Shelley. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you >> very much. Excited to be here. >> Yes, sir. You were across the street. I guess that, uh, the CEO event, right. What's what's the vibe like over there? Describe it. >> Well, I would say this about that three hundred or so CEOs and it really is fascinating because everyone's kind of discovering how important the clouds becoming and how relevant, Because becoming in the in the CIA world, it was years ago. It was more about if the clouds coming. And now it's here. And it's a question of CEOs of struggling whether answer, The question is, how does this really integrate with kind on from solutions? So, really, it's making the cloud more and more real. >> You know, it's interesting. Five years ago, if I asked the CIA about the clouds, you know, they would say It's another quiver in the another arrow in the quiver and you know we're looking at it. It's at its centre and some might say, Hey, we're not using the cloud, especially financial services. But practitioners would roll their eyes on the clouds. The clouds, I t. What do you mean? The cloud that cloud, the cloud that seems to have changed on the practitioner bases is more accepting of that notion of the cloud. What's changed? >> Well, I was a couple things. One is, I think, that when we used to kind of roll, our eyes were very concerned about the security of the cloud, for sure. And I think with the cloud providers have seen lots of improvements in the security angle. Nothing I'LL tell you is in it. We constantly get the pressure of delivering things faster and cheaper, and the cloud offers us that solution to be able to deliver things faster and cheaper, whether that's, you know, for your HR systems or whether that's for something of a solution. So promise Israel. We're beginning to see that, and I think they're really shoring up the security aspects of this. How >> does it change your roll? One of the changes that are sort of required from CEOs. Perspective. >> Yeah, I will say that I think that the CEO today is really focused on five big things mobile cloud structure and unstructured data. So the whole day to play as well as, you know, kind of your personal or professional identity. And then, of course, the final one is the Internet of everything. So Mohr devices coming into the enterprise. And I really think the thing that flows through those five things is two things. One is data that flows through that. So where the data is sourced from a cloud or on crime, the end user wants to have a similar experience whether we're the data source from and the second component is of course, you know how weak secure that. You know, The whole notion of security is becoming more and more critical that, you know, security things at the network layer is good, but in the end, device is good. But now we're being asked to really make sure that we're securing things across the entire enterprise stack. While everything's changing devices are changing, the sourcing is changing as well as you know now the new devices with the Internet of things. >> We do a lot of big data shows and it talks about the data is the new oil and, you know, the data centric organization. How real is that? It that Samantha? I mean, you've only been there three months, I know, but you know, least on your observations, just semantic. But generally in your community, how real is that? >> I think is very real. In fact, I would say that the job of the CEO is to protect the company's assets and to protect the data. And that's assumed that the employees assume that the CIA was going to do that. It's certainly become a bit more difficult, given cybercriminals are getting smarter and there's more hackers and more were ways to hack and, of course, the devices coming in. But I still think that the role of the CEO has to be to protect the country's assets. >> There's an interesting discussion we have. We actually do a conference in chief Data officer conference with them it in July, and the premise that Emmett has put forth is that chief data officer is a new role in the organization should be independent of the CIA, should appear of the CEO and have ownership over, you know, a lot of different. So the data assets the data taxonomy, data sources. It's still fuzzy where the lines are done. When you talkto a lot of the big data practitioners, they say, No way. That's the CEO's job. Um, have you thought about that much in terms of you need the datas are Are you the datas are? >> Yeah, I actually think you could, but especially, I think it depends on certain industries would make that more more >> realistic. Air Service is the regular. >> Actually think the chief information officer has information and data already, and I think that's a big part of our role. So whether it's a separate role or not, the coordination, the combination and reliance on each roll is really critical. >> So don't you have enough to do? Yes, well, now they wanted to innovate right way force of innovation. They want you to be a business partner of Value Creator outside of just the acid. So how does that all playing? Well, measure And >> that's why I guess it's so fun. We've always said that being an I t you gotta like change and being an I t for aninety company, you're really gonna like change. And I would say that it is What's exciting about the CIA role is yes, I can't authorize it simplistically, but it's around, run the business, changed the business and grow the business. And if historically, it might have been that CEOs were just about run the business, not anymore. CEOs are expecting us to run, change and grow. And we got to find solutions and technology cost effectively of how we can do that. >> And now you've got all these megatrends hitting you like a ton of bricks. Like you said, Cloud Mobile social. How's that kind of change the game in the last couple of years? >> Well, I thinkit's both exciting and daunting at the same time. I think it's exciting because it does open things up and again. Most of our employees are also our. All of our employees are consumers, so they're having this consumer like experience and they want to come into it and they want to come to work and now the same kind of experience. So I think it opens up a whole new way for us to deliver services. And one of the things we're working on in semantics is to create a services led organisation. What? We actually are delivering services. So your email services you're content service, your video service, your pricing service so that we can really deliver these services in a way that you have consumed the services as a consumer. >> So you used to be a mean still is most like tea shops. Talk about systems, you know? Sure, it's covered by claims system. That's where my investment is going. It's this big silo infrastructure built around. Do you see that changing? Where were the parlance, even changes to my services? This is my service catalog. Salome Charging for >> that. Yes, I do. Pretty sixteen pretty substantially. And we're implementing that kind of service is lead mentality. It's semantic now, and the reason is because the system of the applications is at some level kind of irrelevant. You know, you gotta replace systems and applications, but ultimately you don't want to replace the service customer. Our employees want to get used to having that video service. They really don't care anymore where it sourced from on from in the cloud, and they don't necessarily care about what technology was used to get there. They want their service. So I think as a ninety organization won by creating the services led organisation, you are really clear about how you're spending the dollars and really clear about how the transparency of the cost of those services and then really clear to your point. You know, I love to shop on the Internet as a consumer, and I'm so used to picking and clicking right. And so we want to deliver services that simply to the organization that people understand the service in the cost of the services. >> So did you see I love the whole concept of portfolio management, the application portfolio, run, the business, grow the business transformed business, the old meta group, you know, taxonomy. I love that and and And I could see I used to work with CEOs all the time, and they would actually use that and say, OK, we're just going to subjectively say, Here's my run. The business absence. My grows, the business grow. The business has transformed the business. We're going to allocate the portfolio accordingly. Do you look at your services catalogue the same way. And how does it where would you like to see it? It's It's very difficult to get out of that seventy thirty year, you know, because by definition, you're always running. Yes, you know so But how do you look at that? That mix and how do you What's your ideal mix? >> Well, it's very difficult because you do have to do kind of portfolio planning, but I do think with Cloud Solutions it offices offers us a different solution to be more cost effective and agile. So clearly you're gonna have some and run the business. But I'm not necessarily spending a lot of money on the actual infrastructure to take some on from solutions that we used to do. So the cost will be total cost of ownership. It should be less with some of the cloud services. That's the promise. So when I think about run, grow change, I know other sources like Gardner and Forrester will say that a large enterprise company spends sixty five seventy percent on run the business. Still, even though I've made all these advancements, we haven't aspirational goal. It's Samantha Guy t. I'm not sure we can get there because again it feeds. But if we could get to a point that we are really a third, a third a third, wouldn't it be cool if I could deliver two thirds of the spent on change and grow versus run? So it's aspirational, but I'm not giving you that. >> But you know what? So maybe maybe we're thinking about the wrong way, because maybe that's an impossible equation to solve. Maybe we should be looking. I wonder if you'd get your feedback on this just struck me. Maybe we should think about it like almost like product cycles. I remember one of the CEOs around here. We usedto be very proud of the fact that a product cycle intensive business said seventy percent of the products that we have, you know, on the seventy percent of our revenue is coming from products that we've announced in the last twelve months. Maybe that's how we should be looking out for, because by definition they're going to be more modern, more innovative, and with the services catalog approach, you may be able to do that. These are the services that we've launched in the last X number of months, we could look att consumption. Do you think that's ah, Reasonable, >> I think is actually interesting way to look at. And I would say that was some of the things that service now is actually introducing. You know, one of the things we want A ninety is just visibility. What service is being used if I had a rank them and them? Ranking and writing. Oh, they four stars, five stars. We want that visibility across organization and delete, delete, delete. The things are defective and that aren't working sometimes the nineteen. We don't know that or see that. So one of the things I think it's really important is with service now or any other solutions is that when we get that visibility, we could go back and say to the organization, Look for people using the service. You know, it's no longer effective as it used to be, less deleted and again that feeds into that cost savings will feed into run the business and growing >> Jr s getting rid of stuff. We never get rid of stuff. And I really that's my goal is value. We have to leave. You need to leave Well, That's interesting that you put a different twist on. We hear a lot about now the apus king, right? Everyone is about the at the at the AP line of business was to build your own app. But you're really putting the certain delivering. The APP is a service above explore application and knocking down the value of the particular app that delivers that service. >> Yeah, I am, for a couple reasons. First of all, not miso and a mobile device you're going to need your absolute All are addicted to our certain laps, for sure. But the reason why I think about that on the Enterprise is because a service is going to be ultimately comprised of the technology process and culture and people, right. So a nap in my mind still gets us to just the technology. When reality To make these service Israel and continue to optimize the services, you're gonna need the service owner. You got people in process to really optimize that service. So it's the super structure >> right above the to deliver the revised >> Yes, yes, and that's a really good point. I think in the past it is always and we always will be held the total cost of ownership. It's really, really, really critical that we show and be fully transparent of our cost. But I actually think with the new technology that's available and we're being expected by our CEO's is we have to deliver value as muchas cost value at a reduced cost or an approved cost. But I think the the conversation needs to continue to push. What's the value that technology can deliver? Not on ly the Kansai, and that's happening. >> We heard earlier today. Friend of yourself, Frank Ski? No, but he was talking about how you had, you know? So the traditional days you got application group, you got infrastructure group infrastructure does operations. They you know, they take the code and take it. You know, the employees at the application guys, you know, we all know the story. Now you see the devil ops culture you're seeing programmable infrastructure. Is that happening in your organization? You see those sort of two worlds defusing or morphing into the business and becoming a devil sculpture >> in pocket. So and say where we have those labs or where we have proof of concepts in pockets, Yes, hasn't been pervasively changed in the organization. Not quite yet. And I think a couple things One is we're in some ways just learning about kind of infrastructure as a service and how I can actually you push up a server and fifteen seconds or less type thing and provisions at server in fifteen seconds. So we're learning as an organization, the whole sum or is Asians are simply better than others, but we're learning on the whole infrastructure of the service. We're learning how we could deliver the applications as a service. So I think the next net and so we're using agile development things and scrums and things like that. But I think the next natural evolution is Dev Ops. Now, I would say that you gotta be kind of careful and where you play and push that because it's a holy learning. You gotta make sure the people challenge. You have been really? Yeah, skills and talents. But I do think it's the next next area, folks. >> So we'LL pick up on infrastructure is a service. We obviously you got the gold standard of of Amazon. Look at him. He's gonna go. Wow, That's pretty impressive what they've done do you look at that and say, OK, there's a big chunk stuff in the margins development that we should just put in tow that cloud Or do you say, why don't we duplicate that? Replicate that in house. Which approach do you think your organization? Well, >> for almost two reasons we're doing Private Cloud. You know, again, I want to be the biggest proof point of semantics products that I possibly can. So that means I have to be customer one toe are semantic products and test them out and make sure we're giving the feed back back to the semantic group. So we're building our private cloud inside semantic right now, which really will become that infrastructure as a service using the latest and greatest technology software to find networks, etcetera, that we're really going to get the whole stack that allows us to do that. And I will tell you that that where we are today versus what the vision is, it will actually leapfrog the foundation of what we're able to do with the company. >> Okay, so So you want essentially duplicate that and guess what You know, the public loud guys are doing That's very secure environment pressures on. Yes, Believe me, I know in time. So now now does that chance. Talking about skill sets before they change the type of people you need to bring in, you have to hire more PHDS way. >> Well, it's not really the species is the real technical talent that no, this new space. So again we had done a several years. Semitic has outsourced their I t organization. And as we bring that in, we gotta make sure and bring in the right skills that supports the new technology. >> So also, outsourcing ended up being, you know, sort of my mess for less, and then it ended up not being less so. You know, a lot of guys have brought that back in, but okay, so you sort of replicated, tryto, tryto leapfrog that capability. Do you become a a profit center? >> Oh, I think it's dangerous. I think it's a real slippery slope if it becomes a profit center. And the reason I say that, it's because I think our focus and our number one job is to really deliver an optimal excellent experience for employees while providing again being in it for ninety company. I think our job is to make sure we deliver the best experience we can while showcasing our products internally and testing and using them. The second you have another motive or another driver, I think it takes the eye. >> So I kind of agree with you. I mean, I do what I don't In the one hand, if you were to sell your services externally than I gave him that, I would disagree, Right? But because you've got a captive audience, you saying you would basically monopolistic power, corrupt, like all monopoly, we >> can certainly come up with what I've pushed suggested my team is way can come up with a whole bunch of ideas of how to improve the product. Or maybe there's a gap in our product strategy that we can suggest to the business unit. So I think in that case, as we come up with and we are the number one customer of our products, that we have ways to enhance it before the product goes to market or opens up another opportunity. Our business unit leaders are really open >> Now. What about chargebacks? Okay, so you're not going profit center. What about chargebacks? >> You know, another thing that I think is a pretty slippery slope. You know cross charging charge bags. It's a complex overhead that ifyou're one company, why do you add that I'm a real a real simple person, and I just like it simple and easy as someone hold accountable and >> companies don't do it, they fif. Fifteen percent of companies will do charge back. It sort of stuck there >> a lot of a lot of over a lot. Yeah, and I'd rather drive accountability into the person that's delivering the service has accountability to do that. It's cost effectively as possible. >> So, Sheila, on the Five Things you mentioned, one of them was your your personality. Well, it was a personal thing I know is you went to a very quickly. >> I'm sorry. So five big trends that I see happening from a knight from a trending perspective in the industry that CIA is really going to need to be thinking about it. And they have already This isn't new, but I do think the five together is pretty powerful. It's of course, mobility, right? It's cloud all the cloud services. Third is around data. So both unstructured and structure data coming together. And of course, I think Nirvana on that one is when unstructured data could be fed into part of the decision. Making like structure data is right. That's going interesting. The fourth is the convergence of personal professional identities. So people are coming into the organization with their mobile phones and they want one phone. They want one device. So how does it professionals and what's the right solution for different industries merged, or at least containerized, whichever one you want to do? The personal versus professional identities and in the last one is, of course, mobility is one thing. But all this explosion of other devices >> get me on the mobile, >> right? And so and then what? Lose all that together is data and, of course, security way have to make sure all that secured as we traverse all those different trends. >> Actually, we're here. Where do you report into the organization >> by reporter Seo Stevens? Let >> Seo. Okay, so let's say Stephen's doing your performance review. You know, when you came on its okay, these air, your objectives if you maybe, you know, you guys write it together. What a Your objectives for the next twelve months. >> Yeah, so it's interesting times, it's semantic, and I would say that we've agreed that it is been there now sixty days so over. Greed is really this. Insourcing is a pretty big effort initiative and especially around how we can stand up our own data center, our own network, all the others ligation migration. It's a pretty big effort. The other part, I would tell you, is pretty important for semantic right now. Is the global Security Office reports to me as well, so understanding the security risks and making sure that we really do have have understood and really being thought, leadership in the security space. That's kind of number two. And I would say, in general the overall services lead how we change the structure of the organization, the number three >> and and I would imagine here on early consumer of a lot of the semantics security product. >> Yes, they are. >> So you must be pretty important. Constituent throttle groups have a lot of a lot of juice with those guys. It >> that's part of the job it's really, really fun is when we could actually provide some important feedback on their products and see it see it built into the road map. It gets quite exciting >> So how you know, we heard again Frank this morning saying, Look, see, I always gotta know as much about the business is business people do. That's that's a tall order, especially in a company the size of a semantic. But do you buy that? At least in part on How do you How do you develop that knowledge? >> Well, I would say that, you know, first of all, yes, I buy into it. I really do think and again it goes back to being in it for ninety company Being there customer you have. You have a pretty big seat at the table, and I think it's really important that you're not only giving advice and counsel on, you know, the product strategy and where we think there could be potential gaps and where things could be improved. But you also have to tell someone you know what that price old or we don't want to use that anymore or show some of the some of the inefficiencies in the product. So I think one is being absolutely tied to the product strategy, and having a voice in the product strategy is really critical. And again, I think, given that you represent the customer base at that table is also quite exciting. >> You go to sales meeting. >> I'm actually not yet sixty days, but we actually have a big customer meeting coming up next week which I'll be attending. >> Yeah. I mean, that's a great way to learn about the products and the challenges. >> Yes, that too. And I love talking to the customers in my previous rules, like talkto the customers in line. >> So they talk about the evolution of the rules, Theo in the not tech company, um, and change of tech as a competitive different theater in York Disney for you before Cisco Ice Arlington. So how is that changing >> lights? They Actually, it's kind of similar challenges in being an I t. For the tech company. You really are kind of tied to the product of being an instrumental influence in the product strategy. That's one in a non tech company. You are challenged with this whole notion. Well, that's what I get as a consumer. So I still even thinking a non titan technology company when they come to work and they have a less technical experience in the user. Experience is less than one way to get at home. I think consumers in general are just getting smarter and smarter. Smarter about I have that that email storage ten acts that at home I have my mobile device that were You know, all these things that were experienced as consumers is coming into all the industries in that expectation of I wanna work differently is just that you get on company >> with no appreciation of what it means even more just the magic in the Magic Kingdom about that conversation we had before. I mean, is the gold toe really replicate that or just get good enough? You know, I think you know Microsoft. There we say suffers Good enough. They made a ton of money and good enough business because can you get there because you're talking about scale of Amazon and Google and Facebook and Microsoft? So do you have to be just good enough? Where do you have to be? Good as good or better? You said leapfrog back, or that was that was notable. >> Gonna leapfrog our data center structure data center strategy. What I think is I do think in delivering a servant out has two teenage children in college, and they sometimes wonder. You know why work is that both now manage the enterprise, and they can't quite figure out talking to interns at work. They can't figure out why they don't have. This is twenty twenty one. Yes, I can't quite figure out why the experiences the same. And when I told my children as well as the intern Group, I says, Listen, work is a bit more complicated than face the pictures and status, you know, work really is. And as a nineteen professional, you have this obligation and responsibility to protect the company's assets. So, no, do I ever want to get to a point that it's as easy as Facebook? What do I ever want to get to a point that you know, pictures on instagram and things like that? It's not practical to put that in the enterprise. Do I want to get to a point that their applications that they use on a daily basis and we're driving a sales sales forecast and it's really important that timely and decision making of that as an app on their phone? Yes, I do. >> And it's self serving self service mobile. >> So yes, I think we have to be really careful and really explicit about what app. So the right APS for work and what happens to the ones that you know are just too much risk >> that this expectation set in communications and all the stuff that new CEO has really got a good act with a head of steam. It's good crystal. All right? Shall we gotta leave it there? Thanks very much for coming with >> me as well. Thank >> you. Thank you. All right, but keep it right there. We'LL be back to wrap up Day one from service now. Knowledge, We're live. This's the Cube right back.