>>mhm Yes, Welcome back to the cubes coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual, which we were in person this year but we're still remote. We still got the Covid coming around the corner. Soon to be in post. Covid got a great guest here, Clayton Coleman architect that red hat cuba love and I've been on many times expanded role again this year. More cloud, more cloud action. Great, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>It's a pleasure >>to be here. So great to see you were just riffing before we came on camera about distributed computing uh and the future of the internet, how it's all evolving, how much fun it is, how it's all changing still. The game is still the same, all that good stuff. But here at Red had some and we're gonna get into that, but I want to just get into the hard news and the real big, big opportunities here you're announcing with red hat new managed cloud services portfolio, take us through that. >>Sure. We're continuing to evolve our open shift managed offerings which has grown now to include um the redhead open shift service on amazon to complement our as your redhead open shift service. Um that means that we have um along with our partnership on IBM cloud and open ship dedicated on both a W S and G C P. We now have um managed open shift on all of the major clouds. And along with that we are bringing in and introducing the first, I think really the first step what we see as uh huh growing and involving the hybrid cloud ecosystem on top of open shift and there's many different ways to slice that, but it's about bringing capabilities on top of open shift in multiple environments and multiple clouds in ways that make developers and operation teams more productive because at the heart of it, that's our goal for open shift. And the broader, open source ecosystem is do what makes all of us safer, more, uh, more productive and able to deliver business value? >>Yeah. And that's a great steak you guys put in the ground. Um, and that's great messaging, great marketing, great value proposition. I want to dig into a little bit with you. I mean, you guys have, I think the only native offering on all the clouds out there that I know of, is that true? I mean, you guys have, it's not just, you know, you support AWS as your and I B M and G C P, but native offerings. >>We do not have a native offering on GCPD offered the same service. And this is actually interesting as we've evolved our approach. You know, everyone, when we talk about hybrid, Hybrid is, um, you know, dealing with the realities of the computing world, We live in, um, working with each of the major clouds, trying to deliver the best immigration possible in a way that drives that consistency across those environments. And so actually are open shift dedicated on AWS service gave us the inspiration a lot of the basic foundations for what became the integrated Native service. And we've worked with amazon very closely to make sure that that does the right thing for customers who have chosen amazon. And likewise, we're trying to continue to deliver the best experience, the best operational reliability that we can so that the choice of where you run your cloud, um, where you run your applications, um, matches the decisions you've already made and where your future investments are gonna be. So we want to be where customers are, but we also want to give you that consistency. That has been a hallmark of um of open shift since the beginning. >>Yeah. And thanks for clarifying, I appreciate that because the manage serves on GCB rest or native. Um let me ask about the application services because Jeff Barr from AWS posted a few weeks ago amazon celebrated their 15th birthday. They're still teenagers uh relatively speaking. But one comment he made that he that was interesting to me. And this applies kind of this cloud native megatrend happening is he says the A. P. I. S are basically the same and this brings up the hybrid environment. You guys are always been into the api side of the management with the cloud services and supporting all that. As you guys look at this ecosystem in open source. How is the role of A PS and these integrations? Because without solid integration all these services could break down and certainly the open source, more and more people are coding. So take me through how you guys look at these applications services because many people are predicting more service is going to be on boarding faster than ever before. >>It's interesting. So um for us working across multiple cloud environments, there are many similarities in those mps, but for every similarity there is a difference and those differences are actually what dr costs and drive complexity when you're integrating. Um and I think a lot of the role of this is, you know, the irresponsible to talk about the role of an individual company in the computing ecosystem moving to cloud native because as many of these capabilities are unlocked by large cloud providers and transformations in the kinds of software that we run at scale. You know, everybody is a participant in that. But then you look at the broad swath of developer and operator ecosystem and it's the communities of people who paper over those differences, who write run books and build um you know, the policies and who build the experience and the automation. Um not just in individual products or an individual clouds, but across the open source ecosystem. Whether it's technologies like answerable or Terror form, whether it's best practices websites around running kubernetes, um every every part of the community is really involved in driving up uh driving consistency, um driving predictability and driving reliability and what we try to do is actually work within those constraints um to take the ecosystem and to push it a little bit further. So the A. P. I. S. May be similar, but over time those differences can trip you up. And a lot of what I think we talked about where the industry is going, where where we want to be is everyone ultimately is going to own some responsibility for keeping their services running and making sure that their applications and their businesses are successful. The best outcome would be that the A. P. R. S are the same and they're open and that both the cloud providers and the open source ecosystem and vendors and partners who drive many of these open source communities are actually all working together to have the most consistent environment to make portability a true strength. But when someone does differentiate and has a true best to bring service, we don't want to build artificial walls between those. I mean, I mean, that's hybrid cloud is you're going to make choices that make sense for you if we tell people that their choices don't work or they can't integrate or, you know, an open source project doesn't support this vendor, that vendor, we're actually leaving a lot of the complexity buried in those organizations. So I think this is a great time to, as we turn over for cloud. Native looking at how we, as much as possible try to drive those ap is closer together and the consistency underneath them is both a community and a vendor. And uh for red hat, it's part of what we do is a core mission is trying to make sure that that consistency is actually real. You don't have to worry about those details when you're ignoring them. >>That's a great point. Before I get into some architectural impact, I want to get your thoughts on um, the, this trends going on, Everyone jumps on the bandwagon. You know, you say, oh yeah, I gotta, I want a data cloud, you know, everything is like the new, you know, they saw Snowflake Apollo, I gotta have some, I got some of that data, You've got streaming data services, you've got data services and native into the, these platforms. But a lot of these companies think it's just, you're just gonna get a data cloud, just, it's so easy. Um, they might try something and then they get stuck with it or they have to re factor, >>how do you look >>at that as an architect when you have these new hot trends like say a data cloud, how should customers be thinking about kicking the tires on services like that And how should they think holistically around architect in that? >>There's a really interesting mindset is, uh, you know, we deal with this a lot. Everyone I talked to, you know, I've been with red hat for 10 years now in an open shift. All 10 years of that. We've gone through a bunch of transformations. Um, and every time I talked to, you know, I've talked to the same companies and organizations over the last 10 years, each point in their evolution, they're making decisions that are the right decision at the time. Um, they're choosing a new capability. So platform as a service is a great example of a capability that allowed a lot of really large organizations to standardize. Um, that ties into digital transformation. Ci CD is another big trend where it's an obvious wind. But depending on where you jumped on the bandwagon, depending on when you adopted, you're going to make a bunch of different trade offs. And that, that process is how do we improve the ability to keep all of the old stuff moving forward as well? And so open api is open standards are a big part of that, but equally it's understanding the trade offs that you're going to make and clearly communicating those so with data lakes. Um, there was kind of the 1st and 2nd iterations of data lakes, there was the uh, in the early days these capabilities were knew they were based around open source software. Um, a lot of the Hadoop and big data ecosystem, you know, started based on some of these key papers from amazon and google and others taking infrastructure ideas bringing them to scale. We went through a whole evolution of that and the input and the output of that basically let us into the next phase, which I think is the second phase of data leak, which is we have this data are tools are so much better because of that first phase that the investments we made the first time around, we're going to have to pay another investment to make that transformation. And so I've actually, I never want to caution someone not to jump early, but it has to be the right jump and it has to be something that really gives you a competitive advantage. A lot of infrastructure technology is you should make the choices that you make one or two big bets and sometimes people say this, you call it using their innovation tokens. You need to make the bets on big technologies that you operate more effectively at scale. It is somewhat hard to predict that. I certainly say that I've missed quite a few of the exciting transformations in the field just because, um, it wasn't always obvious that it was going to pay off to the degree that um, customers would need. >>So I gotta ask you on the real time applications side of it, that's been a big trend, certainly in cloud. But as you look at hybrid hybrid cloud environments, for instance, streaming data has been a big issue. Uh any updates there from you on your managed service? >>That's right. So one of we have to manage services um that are both closely aligned three managed services that are closely aligned with data in three different ways. And so um one of them is redhead open shift streams for Apache Kafka, which is managed cloud service that focuses on bringing that streaming data and letting you run it across multiple environments. And I think that, you know, we get to the heart of what's the purpose of uh managed services is to reduce operational overhead and to take responsibilities that allow users to focus on the things that actually matter for them. So for us, um managed open shift streams is really about the flow of data between applications in different environments, whether that's from the edge to an on premise data center, whether it's an on premise data center to the cloud. And increasingly these services which were running in the public cloud, increasingly these services have elements that run in the public cloud, but also key elements that run close to where your applications are. And I think that bridge is actually really important for us. That's a key component of hybrid is connecting the different locations and different footprints. So for us the focus is really how do we get data moving to the right place that complements our API management service, which is an add on for open ship dedicated, which means once you've brought the data and you need to expose it back out to other applications in the environment, you can build those applications on open shift, you can leverage the capabilities of open shift api management to expose them more easily, both to end customers or to other applications. And then our third services redhead open shift data science. Um and that is a, an integration that makes it easy for data scientists in a kubernetes environment. On open shift, they easily bring together the data to make, to analyze it and to help route it is appropriate. So those three facets for us are pretty important. They can be used in many different ways, but that focus on the flow of data across these different environments is really a key part of our longer term strategy. >>You know, all the customer checkboxes there you mentioned earlier. I mean I'll just summarize that that you said, you know, obviously value faster application velocity time to value. Those are like the checkboxes, Gardner told analysts check those lower complexity. Oh, we do the heavy lifting, all cloud benefits, so that's all cool. Everyone kind of gets that, everyone's been around cloud knows devops all those things come into play right now. The innovation focuses on operations and day to operations, becoming much more specific. When people say, hey, I've done some lift and shift, I've done some Greenfield born in the cloud now, it's like, whoa, this stuff, I haven't seen this before. As you start scaling. So this brings up that concept and then you add in multi cloud and hybrid cloud, you gotta have a unified experience. So these are the hot areas right this year, I would say, you know, that day to operate has been around for a while, but this idea of unification around environments to be fully distributed for developers is huge. >>How do you >>architect for that? This is the number one question I get. And I tease out when people are kind of talking about their environments that challenges their opportunities, they're really trying to architect, you know, the foundation that building to be um future proof, they don't want to get screwed over when they have, they realize they made a decision, they weren't thinking about day to operation or they didn't think about the unified experience across clouds across environments and services. This is huge. What's your take on this? >>So this is um, this is probably one of the hardest questions I think I could get asked, which is uh looking into the crystal ball, what are the aspects of today's environments that are accidental complexity? That's really just a result of the slow accretion of technologies and we all need to make bets when, when the time is right within the business, um and which parts of it are essential. What are the fundamental hard problems and so on. The accidental complexity side for red hat, it's really about um that consistent environment through open shift bringing capabilities, our connection to open source and making sure that there's an open ecosystem where um community members, users vendors can all work together to um find solutions that work for them because there's not, there's no way to solve for all of computing. It's just impossible. I think that is kind of our that's our development process and that's what helps make that accidental complexity of all that self away over time. But in the essential complexity data is tied the location, data has gravity data. Lakes are a great example of because data has gravity. The more data that you bring together, the bigger the scale the tools you can bring, you can invest in more specialized tools. I've almost do that as a specialization centralization. There's a ton of centralization going on right now at the same time that these new technologies are available to make it easier and easier. Whether that's large scale automation um with conflict management technologies, whether that's kubernetes and deploying it in multiple sites in multiple locations and open shift, bringing consistency so that you can run the apps the same way. But even further than that is concentrating, mhm. More of what would have typically been a specialist problem, something that you build a one off around in your organization to work through the problem. We're really getting to a point where pretty soon now there is a technology or a service for everyone. How do you get the data into that service out? How do you secure it? How do you glue it together? Um I think of, you know, some people might call this um you know, the ultimate integration problem, which is we're going to have all of this stuff and all of these places, what are the core concepts, location, security, placement, topology, latency, where data resides, who's accessing that data, We think of these as kind of the building blocks of where we're going next. So for us trying to make investments in, how do we make kubernetes work better across lots of environments. I have a coupon talk coming up this coupon, it's really exciting for me to talk about where we're going with, you know, the evolution of kubernetes, bringing the different pieces more closely together across multiple environments. But likewise, when we talk about our managed services, we've approached the strategy for managed services as it's not just the service in isolation, it's how it connects to the other pieces. What can we learn in the community, in our services, working with users that benefits that connectivity. So I mentioned the open shift streams connecting up environments, we'd really like to improve how applications connect across disparate environments. That's a fundamental property of if you're going to have data uh in one geographic region and you didn't move services closer to that well, those services I need to know and encode and have that behavior to get closer to where the data is, whether it's one data lake or 10. We gotta have that flexibility in place. And so those obstructions are really, and to >>your point about the building blocks where you've got to factor in those building blocks, because you're gonna need to understand the latency impact, that's going to impact how you're gonna handle the compute piece, that's gonna handle all these things are coming into play. So, again, if you're mindful of the building blocks, just as a cloud concept, um, then you're okay. >>We hear this a lot. Actually, there's real challenges in the, the ecosystem of uh, we see a lot of the problems of I want to help someone automate and improved, but the more balkanize, the more spread out, the more individual solutions are in play, it's harder for someone to bring their technology to bear to help solve the problem. So looking for ways that we can um, you know, grease the skids to build the glue. I think open source works best when it's defining de facto solutions that everybody agrees on that openness and the easy access is a key property that makes de facto standards emerged from open source. What can we do to grow defacto standards around multi cloud and application movement and application interconnect I think is a very, it's already happening and what can we do to accelerate it? That's it. >>Well, I think you bring up a really good point. This is probably a follow up, maybe a clubhouse talk or you guys will do a separate session on this. But I've been riffing on this idea of uh, today's silos, tomorrow's component, right, or module. If most people don't realize that these silos can be problematic if not thought through. So you have to kill the silos to bring in kind of an open police. So if you're open, not closed, you can leverage a monolith. Today's monolithic app or full stack could be tomorrow's building block unless you don't open up. So this is where interesting design question comes in, which is, it's okay to have pre existing stuff if you're open about it. But if you stay siloed, you're gonna get really stuck >>and there's going to be more and more pre existing stuff I think, you know, uh even the data lake for every day to lake, there is a huge problem of how to get data into the data lake or taking existing applications that came from the previous data link. And so there's a, there's a natural evolutionary process where let's focus on the mechanisms that actually move that day to get that data flowing. Um, I think we're still in the early phases of thinking about huge amounts of applications. Microservices or you know, 10 years old in the sense of it being a fairly common industry talking point before that we have service oriented architecture. But the difference now is that we're encouraging and building one developer, one team might run several services. They might use three or four different sas vendors. They might depend on five or 10 or 15 cloud services. Those integration points make them easier. But it's a new opportunity for us to say, well, what are the differences to go back to? The point is you can keep your silos, we just want to have great integration in and out of >>those. Exactly, they don't have to you have to break down the silos. So again, it's a tried and true formula integration, interoperability and abstracting away the complexity with some sort of new software abstraction layer. You bring that to play as long as you can paddle with that, you apply the new building blocks, you're classified. >>It sounds so that's so simple, doesn't it? It does. And you know, of course it'll take us 10 years to get there. And uh, you know, after cloud native will be will be galactic native or something like that. You know, there's always going to be a new uh concept that we need to work in. I think the key concepts we're really going after our everyone is trying to run resilient and reliable services and the clouds give us in the clouds take it away. They give us those opportunities to have some of those building blocks like location of geographic hardware resources, but they will always be data that spread. And again, you still have to apply those principles to the cloud to get the service guarantees that you need. I think there's a completely untapped area for helping software developers and software teams understand the actual availability and guarantees of the underlying environment. It's a property of the services you run with. If you're using a disk in a particular availability zone, that's a property of your application. I think there's a rich area that hasn't been mined yet. Of helping you understand what your effective service level goals which of those can be met. Which cannot, it doesn't make a lot of sense in a single cluster or single machine or a single location world the moment you start to talk about, Well I have my data lake. Well what are the ways my data leg can fail? How do we look at your complex web of interdependencies and say, well clearly if you lose this cloud provider, you're going to lose not just the things that you have running there, but these other dependencies, there's a lot of, there's a lot of next steps that we're just learning what happens when a major cloud goes down for a day or a region of a cloud goes down for a day. You still have to design and work around those >>cases. It's distributed computing. And again, I love the space where galactic cloud, you got SpaceX? Where's Cloud X? I mean, you know, space is the next frontier. You know, you've got all kinds of action happening in space. Great space reference there. Clayton, Great insight. Thanks for coming on. Uh, Clayton Coleman architect at red Hat. Clayton, Thanks for coming on. >>Pretty pleasure. >>Always. Great chat. I'm talking under the hood. What's going on in red hats? New managed cloud service portfolio? Again, the world's getting complex, abstract away. The complexities with software Inter operate integrate. That's the key formula with the cloud building blocks. I'm john ferry with the cube. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>> Hello, my name is Petar Bojovic, director of technology infrastructure from Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina. I have been with this organization for over three years and I own system engineering across private and public cloud, virtualization, OS, backup, storage, OpenShift platform, and automation. I have been implementing significant change improving our operating model since I arrived. Blue Cross Blue Shield North Carolina is transforming healthcare by changing the current model. We are focusing on something called value-based healthcare. Traditionally, healthcare model is typically a fee for service or capitated approach in which providers are paid based on the amount of health care services they deliver. Fee for service versus outcome. So when you go to a doctor and you do an office visit, they charge you for every item that they see you with. Based on that, they send that to my organization to adjudicate those claims. Value-based healthcare, on the other hand is a healthcare delivery model in which providers, including hospitals and physicians, are paid based on patient health outcomes. The value in value-based healthcare is derived from measuring health outcomes against the cost of delivering those outcomes. Well, we want to do the same and derive value out of IT as well. Significant value can be attained through automation on all levels. Just like most journeys, mine began with motivation. Let's talk about how I got here, how did I get started and how you can do it too. But first let's talk about Ansible. The automation engine is designed to provide an easy, reusable and platform-independent vehicle to automate complex and repetitive tasks. First off, Ansible is an open-source tool. It is very simple to use and set up. Even better, it's extremely powerful and flexible. You can orchestrate the entire application environment, no matter where it's deployed. You can also customize it based on your needs. Back in 2018, we had to build 150 jump server VMs in under 24 hours. Well, we leveraged some of the cobbled automation tools and scripts to get this done within that timeline. Without leveraging these tools and automation, this would have taken at least a week to facilitate the build. So a couple key takeaways from that exercise. Number one, this was awesome. All right, number two. We saw amazing potential in automation. Number three, we ran into network and other related build issues. Number four, we were unsure what to do next and where to focus within the realm of automation. So fast forward to May, 2019. My infrastructure engineering team introduced infrastructure automation software, you guessed it, Ansible to Blue Cross North Carolina to reduce overall IT costs, increase agility, productivity, and delivery while reducing delays and reliance on outside managed service providers or those repetitive manual tasks. So in the past, to provision a single server or virtual machine would take a minimum of 10 business days. That's not the overall process. That is just the deployment, would take 10 business days and over 20 hours of work, resulting in a cost of approximately $3,300 in charges per build. That's over $3,000 per build per server. However, with the automation platform provided by Ansible, this effort was significantly reduced. Reduced to under one business day, a half-hour worth of work and zero managed service provider charges. Let's fast forward a bit, to middle to late 2019. Blue Cross North Carolina decided to re-host the Facets application platform in-house within our co-locations. Well, Facets is a claim adjudication platform. After a medical claim is submitted, the insurance company Blue Cross determines their financial responsibility for the payment to the provider. This process is referred to as claims adjudication. Blue Cross was faced with the requirement to create roughly 1000 virtual machines as quickly as possible across all regions. Development, tests, training, QA, UAT, P stage, a staging environment, production, NDR. Well, our current managed service provider projected requiring 12 dedicated staff members and 16 weeks to process this request. Nope. There had to be a better way. By leveraging automation, the existing infrastructure engineering team was able to successfully provision all the required servers across three business days, in a total of 16 hours as well as nine weeks ahead of the project plan schedule, resulting in a cost avoidance of over $850,000. That's amazing, isn't it? Well, since then, the infrastructure engineering team has continued to use automation to assist teams both inside and outside of IT by reducing hours spent on repetitive tasks. Automation has increased the speed and accuracy of account creation, security hardening, and remediations, environment-wide configuration changes and software agent installations, just to name a few. This implementation had a significant positive impact on cost savings and cost avoidance and how quickly we can deliver and deploy infrastructure for projects. How were we able to implement this meaningful change? Well, I'll tell you, we started to evangelize and convert those naysayers to the wonderful world of automation. "Automate everything" was our mantra, even automate the automation. We'll eventually get there. It took a top-down approach to really accelerate use and adoptions. I spoke to anyone and everyone I could, my VP did the same, and even my CIO, Jo Abernathy. She started touting how important automation will be to the organization, its value, and how we can stay competitive and deploy faster and deliver at the speed of innovation. Wow, just wow. With a top-down approach for automation, we are empowering teams throughout the business to focus on those areas that are ripe for automation. Repetitive mundane tasks, those that are time delays are ideal candidates and allow these teams to focus on their core workload, versus time spent on those repetitive tasks. We are flaunting our automation successes within IT infrastructure to other departments in IT and the business at large. These conversations are opening up new possibilities to empower team members to leverage automation to deploy and deliver more quickly to meet the demand of enterprise projects and initiatives. Since its inception, the team has delivered on every project request ahead of schedule for infrastructure build, think about that. Every project request has been delivered ahead of schedule from an infrastructure perspective. That's fantastic. Well, automation is not new to the company, my company, nor yours. There's many tools, we use scripting, there's a lot available, but with Ansible and the way we've been able to implement it and make meaningful impact quickly, is new to the industry. We have been able to automate and reap significant cost avoidance in a short amount of time. Other similarly-sized companies are leveraging the same tool for longer and are not able to accomplish as much as we did in a short of time. We had motivation. Since starting this initiative, we are averaging cost avoidances in excess of $250,000 monthly. As difficult as it is to implement something new in most companies, the team implemented this capability and way of thinking within months. The sheer dedication to the business objective and the can-do attitude allowed us to be extremely successful. Thank you very much for your time and allowing me to tell my story.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone. Live Cube coverage here in San Francisco, California Mosconi North were in the lobby for VM World 2019. I'm John for a day. Volante are 10 years covering VM World's been exciting, Dave, and we've watched all the changes and our next guest is going to illuminate all the benefits at the top of the stack, as I call the end user experience. Shaker Ire, Who's the V S v. P. And general manager End User Computing within VM, where what that means is, he takes care of all the stuff that we're virtualization creates those efficiencies. I think what Palmer's just called end user computing still, but they still have that name back then, if I remember correctly, >> yeah, you >> know the name is stuck because it's ah, it's sort of income, passes all the technologies and uses use right as digital interface is. So that's why it's and use the computing. It's any digital interface that anybody at work uses. Now, the interesting thing is people don't work in an office anymore, and the interface is no longer just a laptop. >> Well, I want to get into some stupid questions around the work environment cause whether you working at a cafe or at home is all kinds of security issues. Also, user experiences. Collaboration software. But let's first get the news out of the way. Digital work, Space news What's the What's going on? The show? What you guys announcing? Yeah, so >> before we get to >> the news that we met me, frame it up a little bit right? Because when you think about organizations today, especially with the changing demographics, where they're going in terms of new devices, the mobility phenomenon, right, the transformation they're going through in terms of just their own cloud and APS and so on, right it. Every every one of those things effects employees, right. And at the end of the day, you know what organizations want is for the employees to have a great experience all the way, as we call it from higher to retire. Not to do that, you know you need a platform because I can just give you a pretty apt running in the laptop and say, Great, that's That's the end of the employees experience, right? It's fundamentally transforming the own whole environment. That's why it's still retains its term and use the computing. And to do that, you have to hit at least three facets, right? One is, of course, How do you deliver a great experience for the employees where they can get any app, any device, anywhere, any form? Anyway, that's one aspect of it. The second aspect of it is from a nightie standpoint. I've gotta manage all this complexity, right, and it's only growing. It's not shrinking with all the head virginity, so there's a management angle of it, and then the tone angle of it is, you know, security. As you pointed out, right security so important. In fact, what you users want is they don't want any security driven compromises. What is an example of security, even compromise, that I have to go through three passwords because he simply don't trust me? Heck, figure it out. Is what the user's Saito I t especially the millennials. Right. So s So you gotta address that. So the platform that we have workspace one actually addresses all three So we have innovations today and news in all three areas, right? So it's an example. Employ experiences, something we've been driving with enterprises and corporations for at least two years. Now we've upped the ante. We have now introducing a virtual assistant that employees can use either through voice or text to essentially ask questions. Hey, what's how do I get into WiFi? What's my employee directory? Um, you know who I go to first? You know this and that, right? As employed onboard the organization. Those examples of virtual assistant can do it. So we released the virtual assistant. That's a big piece of news in the employ experience. Sadie. Another big piece of news is we are introducing a tech preview of what we call digital employees experience management, which means I t now has a user expedient score that they can look at and say, Hey, is David getting a great expedience? No, it's poor, and I can die right in. I can find out the root cause I can fix the issue, and I could do that automatically. >> KP eyes can come out of that right? Absolutely serviceability. >> Absolutely. And I think you know, I've talked to many Cee Io's and we you know, we drive works based one and they for awhile sort of told me, Hey, this is all good. But >> I don't know how I'm doing all my >> doing with respect to, you know, your best best customer. Um, I ahead and behind and far behind. So this really helps them. >> Here. Let me ask the questions. That's a good point I want because this gets down to the heart of the issue. What is the top requests that you're getting from your customers or top two or three features? That pattern that continued comes back from your customer base when it comes to end user computing. These the experience, >> it spends all three things, right? So the first thing is, they're saying, Listen, I want to be able to deliver a great employee experience some, you know, help me do that. Helping measure and make sure I know what journey, Eman That's one right. Second is I've got to set virginity. I've got this complexity of God. You know, I always phones. I've got android tablets. I've got a you know, Dell laptop. I've got a Mac book. I've got you know a rugged device. I've got some work space I ot devices like printers and ex sector X factor. I've got this head virginity. Just help me manage this complexity in a sort of a unified, seamless, uniform way. Right? And third is help me secure my enterprise. So there's a whole model emerging called zero Trust. Where in the old world, what you do is you just build a huge wall around the enterprise, right? A pedometer, and say I'm inside the wall. I need to be domain joined on that inside the fire world. Therefore, I'm good. I mean, you got to throw that out of the window anymore. >> Doesn't exist in your model, because if a millennial or workaround working at home, that means every single i p device on my network potentially a compromise point. >> Correct. So you have You have to start with that device never ought to be trusted. And every network is hostile, right? If you start out for that reminds, then you build trust over time, right? And how do you build trust? You first say you leverage user identity, You say Okay, Davis who he is, right? And so that becomes an identity. You say this device is trusted or partially trusted. So one of the things we're announcing its part of innovations today is what we call workspace to risk analytic, which means we're able to provide a risk or write for the device. And we can say, Hey, this device is a risk on a score of 1 to 10 of eight, which means I can mostly trust it. Maybe you don't trust the sensitive apse. So therefore, a block access to the most sensitive apse, right? So use a combination of different things. They use things like NSX micro segmentation to your point about how we build on the Via Mary Stack. The carbon black acquisition is phenomenal because it gives us that intelligence. So collectively, we're able to sort of implement the zero trust model. Right. So >> those are the >> three main topics, right? Is employed expedience, unified management and zero trust security are really, really >> important. I want to ask you about your tenure, gm, where coincided with the air watch expedition. And prior to that event theme, we're struggled in this space. Ana Citrix dominated your pre Gerald. You know, your former company kind of fumbling around in air watch now. Air watch, if I recall correctly from wrong was not like the number one player. Just like people are saying carbon blacks, not the number one player. Absolutely. And then you get into the VM where flywheel effect or Sanjay Putin came in and it was great leader. But I wonder if you could sort of describe the ascendancy of the end user computing business at at VM wear. And I'm curious you mentioned carbon black and you kind of replicate that with our end point cloud security, peace. There's obviously a security use case. You clearly just described it, but take us back to >> great, great, great question. So actually, I joined right when literally, maybe a month before the air watch acquisition. Right then. So a Sandy and I and the rest of the team sort of worked this. We said, Hey, listen, a watch is a phenomenal sort of mobile management and security player. We had a very good product and horizon VD I, but it was a little bit isolated, and there were others, like, say, tricks that are sort of motor head in that space. So what? The first thing we did is we have three assets. Actually, the third I said what we had a Fed rated identity asset that we had purchase, but not leverage. So we said he know what the identity really has to get coupled with. You know, the death star pulled the mobile world, so we actually took these three piece parts and started integrating it as he started integrating it. We said, You know, this actually forms a very interesting work space, and we said It's a digital work space to be sort of coined that term and started to really tight together. The experience is a user would have, whether they were in a mobile device, a physical desktop or a virtual desktop right and made that seamless. So that's when the work's based one app was born and this was probably around the 2015 time frame. So we started releasing it, and then we started to stitching together basically all the back and integrations, right, So out >> of >> this out of that was born a workspace. And so, in 2016 with the momentum of the workspace, desktop business came back because now it had it been on. We've done a lot of work on the desktop businesses. Well, we made it very competitive with Citrix. We bought volumes. We integrated that we made it actually the best media solution. The markets, with a tremendous traction by itself in the horizon space and then integrating it works with people, said You know what, I need to get that workspace. And why am I dealing with Citrix this horizon solution within workspace in a more than salts my problem. In fact, it's better in certain areas. So that sort of got momentum going around that we really built that workspace momentum. And that was, I would say, till about 2016 or so. And then we saw these three things coming up. One is Hey, employees, experience matters. We really started pouring effort into the employees experience from, you know, day one day two and beyond. And then recently, including this show, we added divided sort of Day zero and then the off boarding pieces. Well, so employees experience became sort of the lightning rod for why somebody would adopt this workspace one platform which were built by then, right, and then we added on this ability to do modern management, especially on Windows and Mac, which was really starting to take off last year completely. Darden rounded out that portfolio and handsome capability, and then we added Now zero trust model, which is which is now sort of bolstered by the acquisition of carbon black. So you can see this a set off cascading talk, full moves. But we did it in a way where, you know, it was really truly integrated. So when as we come out with carbon black now, one of the most interesting things is right when carbon black comes into the fold, we've already done the integration. We're actually going to show it on my keynote right after this, right? We're actually showing the integration between workspace one intelligence and carbon backs You There you have it. You already have an asset that's completely integrated. >> So the risk or is interesting to me as well, so as endpoint security, because much, much more importantly, no fishing is you know, the big way that people get give up credentials. Does >> any of >> this seep into machines and I ot and edge? >> Yeah, and fabulous question. >> Wonder if you could come. >> Absolutely. I think listen, be if you think about risk oars and if >> you think about >> risks at large and devices they've been largely and Windows devices and not to and blame it on Windows, I think they might accept in a fabulous job of sort of progressing windows. But by far it's the most used operating system in the enterprise, right? But Mobile is getting used there. There, you know, it's starting to make a huge starting take a large part of the real estate of the enterprise. So I think we have a unique opportunity now through the data we collect on mobile devices with workspace one using the underlying air watch technology coupled with some of the, um, you know, data that, you know, data analytics tools we have in the carbon black cloud and the way they do sort of threat analysis and, uh, and determine potential attack vectors. We have an opportunity to leverage that intelligence. And that day, the lake and that technology, coupled with the data, we have to really now build a broader sort of threat surface understanding across multiple devices, and eventually that goes into a I ot. Right. So we're actually going to be working with some of the other technologies we have in Wimmer called Paul's Right. Pulse is very interesting because they have the ability to speak multiple device protocols that nobody does. Okay, so we're gonna take advantage of them potentially to sort of be able to start to poke into devices that are attached to the office, but not quite attached to the office. In the sense they're not mainstream devices you and I would use. But indirectly, you may use it, right? So be able to sort of get a much broader view off a visibility of devices. Second is how to manage them through a combination of workspace, one impulse and third, to get the data so that we can feed it into this federated cloud of workspace one intelligence and carbon black to understand the risk. And that way you have this three prom thing, right? I >> wanna ask you a personal question. Pat gal singer was very prolific this week again. Props of in social Media, Mojo doing a selfie on stage with Craig. Job ate up. Yeah, um, doing a little morning thing, telling people how he prepares for his keynote. Yeah. So how do you prepare for your keynote. Do you like, give it for a M and hit the gym and get a job coming up right after this interview? >> I do. I I I'm not fat. That's incredibly disciplined, I think. I think it's been waking up at 4 a.m. for a long time, so I'm not that much of an early bird. But I prepare because, you know, I've been involved in the construction of the keynote. So for me, it's, um, be started work on this, probably about three months ago, because the story came together. It's very natural to me. Just like you asked me the question. You know, tell me about the evolution. It's just a very natural thing because, like telling you >> on relevant story, not just beady eye. Yeah, it's so much more now. >> It's so much more And, you know, and I've lived through this and I participated in most of the decision making, so, you know, when my head of product marketing company said, Hey, what should we do with the keynote? I said, You know, I have the storyline in mind, right? And sit on the same three or four pillars I'm talking to you about, right? How do we tell the story to the audience about what is the platform? Why should they sort of bet on it? How did they sort of deploy it, show them some real world examples and then basically sprinkling all the innovations? That sounds exciting. So? So because of that story lines always being in my head. So it's not that hard. It's just sometimes you just need to sort of a CZ. You're unstable. >> You're preparing Saul, you're part of Yeah, I was handing it to you. Nobody related it. So >> for me, I think it's just sometimes just rehearsing some of the key parts. And then, of course, the visual cues. And they >> want to slam home the big point. They go. You know, I've been looking at your career. You have to check your technologies, but also, you're pretty much been a product leader. Yeah, and your career definite. So I gotta ask you around from the big movements in the innocent. Like your perspective as a participant. This was a product leaders Well, executive in there and done that. Amazon introduced their first conference around cloud security called reinforces. Here we get Cube coverage there. It was interesting because it wasn't like a typical security conference like black hat. Definitely on our say wasn't so much I t is really about cloud security. And so Dave and I were speculating like, this is the first cloud security show. I mean, dedicated to kind of cloud security didn't say cloud security, but essentially, cloud security. >> What is >> your take on the cloud security? Because a >> little bit >> of a different view, little bit architectural change. If you gotta have the on premises, you're gonna have the cloud if things any working together, some things you're doing and security quite frankly, around isolation to, you know, working in in any environment. You're that year in the middle of it all. >> Yeah. >> What is cloud >> security and why I have a conference isn't relevant with your thoughts. >> That's a >> great question. I think you know, you see many of these trends, I think, you know, listen, many of these conferences, they provoke their thought provoking, so it forces you to think right? So when I think about cloud security now, traditionally when you think about cloud security, you would think about technologies like Cass be light cloud access service broker. You would think about encryption to means much more than I do >> all the usual stuff in the back. If he's there, other people are there. But no. >> Yeah, I mean more than my coffee. I think you know you. It's sort of you think of the the the NL unlocked to cloud securities Data center security where you think of the sort of Amazon cloud living in Amazon Data Center. And, you know, how can we protect the, you know, the data and the egress access into those cloud and in the same technology sort of apply, but to your point that you sort of just touched upon its That cloud is not living in isolation. First of all, that Amazon Cloud is connected to a whole bunch of, you know, applications that are still sitting in the data center. Right. So they were not there. Potentially not moving the Oracle database today isn't there moving some workloads to the cloud, right? That's what most most companies are. Hey, guess what? There's all these end points of the connecting the connecting both the data center in the cloud. You're not gonna proxy to the cloud to get to the data center. So there's gateways. So do me. Cloud security can't be an isolated, you know, sort of technology that companies have to sort of think about now is there Is there opportunity to leverage the cloud to manage security better and get visibility in the security environment to do security? Analytics? Absolutely. So I think to me, that's where it's going. Because security, I think, has been proven, is no longer. You know, the one sing single thing. It's just you have to do multiple things. Every time I go talk to CSO's, they tell me they got this technology. I said, Hey, wait a minute. You you have 20. Did you cut down any yet? We've got down a few, but you know, they're just nervous about cutting down too much. Because of that one piece of software >> insurance policy. They're insecure. >> They cut to the added four, >> another tool. Bullshit. I think I think the architecture will get simpler because it's way too complex, but the same time I think you have to. There's no sustenance, cloud security and network security or endpoint security, and >> maybe there's a whole new group emerging within VM where that you could add to your repertoire en Pointe computing group your end user computing. Why don't have endpoint computing? That's >> what you're holding >> is you know is all about what do we need to do for the user? Both as I t and the end user? Okay. And now he now folks like hr and so on, the securities has to be built into it, right? So much like that. I think when you go build our data centers are the public cloud and build this hybrid clouds, security is to be built into that as >> well. We'll shake our thanks for coming on and sharing your insights. A super important area. We're gonna be covering this. This is cloud to point of this end user computing. This is where the edge of the network is. That's where the people are. They are part of the edge. A thin part of the edge of a big part of the edge. You're gonna be in the middle of it will be following the attraction. Thanks for coming on. You So much for having me having played Cuba, Cuba live here in San Francisco on chopper develop the state tune from or we have two sets. Three days of wall to wall coverage, worldly in day one. Stay with us. We gotta have Michael Dell. Pat Nelson. Come on Tomorrow and a lot more guests coming onto. They stay with us. We'll be right back.

>> From Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE. Covering WTG Transform 2019 brought to you by Winslow Technology Group. >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, and we're at WTG Transform 2019 here in Boston, Massachusets. Happen to welcome back to the program the CTO of Winslow Technology Group. Rick Gouin spoke to the customers this morning, threw in a bunch of data points, got us all thinking about where we are today and where we're going tomorrow in the cloud. Rick, thanks so much for joining us >> Hey, thanks for having me. >> All right, so rick, you and I, we've known each other for a few years now, we have these great debates as to kind of where we are and where we're going. I attended a Nutanix event a couple years ago, and Nassim Taleb, who is the author of a number of books including Black Swan and Antifragile, he worked on Wall Street and he said look, we all try to make these predictions, but we think it's going to be a line, or maybe they'll be slow adoption, but the black swan that he said is something, just the quick thing is you've never seen a black swan, you'd think that all swans are white, and once you've seen a black swan, you're like, oh my god, everything that I thought I knew I have to think any questions. Predicting the future, especially in a never changing world where we don't have all the facts and when we can't predict, is really challenging. So understanding whether cloud will take 80% of the market or 30% in the next five years is a little bit of a complex thing. It's like trying to predict the weather here in New England where we're watching the clouds and the rain roll in and roll out. Start with us as to Winslow Technology, your customers, where they are with cloud, and how that conversation goes with them today. >> Yeah, so I think you make a great point about these statistics, these assertions, these predictions. We're getting bombarded with them without context, and I think that it leaves a lot of our customers feeling like they're behind the curve a little bit because have bandy about the, you'll hear 80% of cloud, of companies have a cloud strategy, and there's never the follow up to see did it change two weeks later, was it actually implemented. And so, I think what we can all agree on is that one, all of these technologies are going to continue to grow. Their adoption is going to continue to grow. We're going to continue to figure out different ways to extract value from those services, but the other part of this, and I think it's really where Winslow fits in, is that we want to help our customers position themselves to take advantage of that. So I want to help our customers transform what they're doing today. If we look out at that three, at that five year mark, we know that we're going to have a lot of workloads out there. I don't know what the percentage is going to be, I'm not going to throw a fake number out there, but we know that it's going to be bigger than the one today. And we also, I would assert, that there are things we can help you do in your on-prem environment today that will help you make you better prepared for that transition and allow you to attack that, hopefully, in a more strategic and well considered way. >> Yeah, absolutely. Well rick, I am very sure 87% of all statistics lie, and beyond that, I would poke and prod at any numbers that I see there because look, numbers are numbers, and as you said, things do change all the time. >> Context. >> When I look at some of the tailwinds that have been driving your business the last few years, hyper convergent infrastructure, some of the services wrapping around, help customers with their security journey, with their cloud journey. You've got a number of partners that are there. The bombardment that your customers get, it doesn't stop. If they open up, they open up the news today, it's like oh, AWS just unleased their latest on outpost, and VMware is partnering with all the clouds, and therefore you better be ready for it. The thing I'll poke a little bit at, I don't mind that customers think they're a little bit far behind because what they need to be doing is being that change mindset because the worse thing they can do is just say, well, I've got it the way I want it and I'm not going to change. And I think that that's something you would agree with and that Winslow's helping them to try to keep up because nobody can keep up by themselves, so they've got to be able to turn to partners like yourself to keep up. >> Yeah. I think one of the think one of the things that was telling that I touched on earlier today a little bit was the number three reason that we heard from our customers for why they weren't leveraging the public cloud was because they didn't know how. And I think that that's telling, I think that sort of response to the whole notion that they're feeling behind the curve, but I also feel like you mentioned hyper converged, you mentioned some of these other partners we work with. These guys all have some great stories that will allow our customers to take a first step. What we're not talking about is saying hey, customers, you've got to re-platform everything. You've got to re-write everything to leverage all these different cloud services and cloud platform. That's a big lift for a lot of our customers, but what might not be such a huge lift is leveraging some of those cloud services, cloud connectivity capabilities that are built into those platforms from those partners like Nutanix, like VMware, like Dell EMC. >> So rick, I really liked your line that most customers, many customers end up hybrid by accident. And unfortunately, I think that's where we are when you go talk to them, they might not understand hybrid cloud, multi cloud, they're just like oh, that's vendor terminology, but do you have SAS? Oh, absolutely, they've all got O365 and Salesforce, and a whole host of other ones. Three which probably IPO today. And are they using a public cloud? They definitely are. Most of them at least understand they're using it as opposed to five years ago it was like oh, wait, we actually checked all the IPs and we had three groups that we didn't realize that were doing the old stealth IT. So what is the advice, how do we make sure we get everybody talking in, what are some steps to move forward on that strategy to actually have a coherent cloud offering, not just the pieces that I put together because that's what different groups did. >> Sure, yeah. I think the hybrid by accident scenario is one that we're seeing more and more often from our customers and also just from other folks in the industry. And I guess just to kind of expand on that a little bit, what we're talking about there is when somebody that we're working with perhaps goes into a project, goes into a cycle with the notion that they're going to be all of one or all of the other. I'm going to put everything in the cloud or I'm going to put nothing in the cloud. And what happens is you find a workload that doesn't fit where your whatever your direction is. And so all of a sudden, if you're one of those people who say oh the cloud is just somebody else's computer. Next thing you know, you're on O365, next thing you know you're consuming Dropbox or who knows what. You've got all of these different public services and you have no integration between your on-prem environment and all these public services you're leveraging. And so, you find yourself in a scenario where you're in a hybrid by accident, and which means that you didn't build in the sort of management that would be able to consider these different silos of information. And so, what we kind of advocate is that when you're approaching these strategic decisions, recognize upfront that you may very well end up in hybrid scenario, at least in the next few years this is probably what it's going to look like, at least that's what I think. Recognize that upfront and build that into your plan. If you plan to end up in a hybrid end state, you're whole environment is going to be such much more cohesive, you're going to have that app mobility, you're going to have so much more flexibility than if you end up there by accident by moving half your workloads out, lift and shifting some things over here, some stuff gets left behind, different groups are managing different things 'cause they're different skillsets. If you plan to be in that state at the end, you're going to be in much better shape, but you're also going to be well positioned to continue to move things out as those services become more robust and as you can extract more value from those for your business. >> I think if you've looked at the history of IT, it's very rare that we get one thing to rule them all. >> Right. >> And it's like, well, Ethernet's done a good job at networking, and the mainframe had it's time there, but at the end of the day, five years from now, it might just be all my solutions are cloud, but it's just, as you said, that location matters a little bit less because by the way, it's not just public and private, that edge computing thing is a huge draw that most companies I talk to have some kind of IOT and censure strategy that they're picking out. How can users be data driven to get to the right things in the right place and really make smart decisions? >> Yeah. So I think that there's two facets here to being able to make data driven decisions. The first is that you have to collect the data. We have to put in the diligence, so certainly, that's one of the places that we're able to help our customers in collecting and in quantifying it, attaching dollars and cents. Here's what the services will cost, here's what the professional services, the re-platforming will cost. Let's wrap some numbers around this. If you're trying to make those decisions, if you're creating a strategy, and you haven't taken a look at what your costs are going to be, what your level of effort is going to be, that's a super incomplete strategy, and it's one of the frustrating things for me as a customer facing resource to walk into one of those situations where a customer is dead set on their strategy, but really doesn't understand it themselves. We really welcome the opportunity to help those kind of do their diligence to be able to create more informed and data drive strategies. Leveraging information from their own environments. >> All right. Rick, last thing is we know things are changing all the time. What's the last thing you want people to know about Winslow Technology 2019 that they might not have understood if they looked at the company a year or three years ago? >> Yeah, so I think that some of the big changes that have really come to us in the last couple years is we're adding technical firepower at alarming rate. Our growth is really focused on the services delivery, and the engineering talent we've brought in high end security resources, high end VMware resources. We're able to deliver those cloud connectivity capabilities from all those different products that you mentioned. We're able to deliver a fairly robust security portfolio today, not to mention, the highest level of VMware expertise that there is out there. So we put a lot of focus into the services, into professional services, into helping our customers sort of understand and make that journey, straddle that public, private, hybrid, multi sort of thing. And we think that services is going to drive a lot of this for us going forward. And so our capabilities are growing leaps and bounds, year over year in the services and engineering talent perspective. >> All right, well, Rick Gouin, CTO of Winslow Technology. Always a pleasure to catch up. My prediction, next year I think we'll be another five to 10% in our agreement as to what the future looks like. >> I like it. >> Just because it will be today as opposed to tomorrow >> Yes. >> in the viewpoint. Be back with much more here from WTG 2019. I'm Stu Miniman. And thanks for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Toronto, Canada, it's theCUBE, covering Global Cloud and Block Chain Summit 2018. Brought to you by theCUBE. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE live coverage in Toronto for the Block Chain-Cloud Convergence Show. This is the Global Cloud Block Chain Summit part of the Futurist Event that's going on the next two days after this. Our next guest is Kesem Frank, AION co-founder and CEO of MavenNet. Doing a lot of work in the enterprise and also block chain space around the infrastructure, making it really interoperable. Of course, Jenna Pilgrim, co-founder and COO of a new opportunity called Network Effects. Welcome to the cube, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks, thanks for having us. >> Thanks, John. >> You guys were just on a panel, The Real World Applications of Block Chain. IBM was on it, which, been doing a lot of work there. This is real world, low hanging fruit, block chain, everyone's pretty excited about. A lot of people get it, and some don't. Some are learning. So you've got the believers, the I want to believe, and then the nonbelievers. Let's talk about the I want to believe and the believers in block chain. Some real world applications going on. As it's evolving, so there's evolution of the standards, technology, but people are putting it to use. What's going on in the sector around some of the real world cases you guys talked about? >> I think we're seeing a lot of collaboration as far as real world applications go, because I think people are sort of starting to understand that if a distributed network is going to work or is going to be secure, it needs diversity and it needs mass scale. If lots of different parties can work together, then they can actually form a community that's really working. As far as real world applications, there's some really interesting one as far as supply chain. Kathryn Harrison at IBM talked about their pilot about shipping, bringing together the global supply chain of distribution. There's a bunch of interesting ones about food providence and bringing together different parties just to make sure that people know what they're eating and that they are able to keep themselves safe, so I think those are two definitely interesting ones. >> Kesem, block chain, supply chain, value chains, these are kind of key words that mean something together. >> Right. >> Making things work in a new way, making things more efficient, seems to be a trend. You're kind of in that world. Is it efficient? (laughing) How's the tech working? What are some of the core threshold issues that people have to get over? >> So you know, John, that's exactly the question to ask. A lot of folks out there are looking at block chain and the promise it represents, and the one big question that keeps echoing over and over is when is this going mainstream? When are we going to see something, a domain, a use case, that is actually natively on a block chain? I think that, essentially, we kind of owe it to ourselves and to everyone that cares about this stuff to ask what's working today, August 2018 and what is still kind of pending? I co-founded a project called AION. For us, interoperability is really one of the key facets that you need to be able to solve for to make block chains real. And again, here's the 60 second argument. If you're going to grow all these solutions that are centric around the use case, they solve for different pinpoints and different stakeholders care about them. They don't really create the cohesive kind of ecosystem until they can all talk to each other, and then you have to ask yourself is the original hypothesis where it's going to be one main net, one chain that's going to rule them all, and everybody gets to play on it and everybody deploys their Dapps on stuff like Fabric or R3 or Ethereum, or whatever it might be. That is absolutely not the way we're seeing enterprise actually shaping into this domain of block chain. What we're seeing is big consortiums that already have value, tangible today, out of doing stuff on chain, and the biggest thing to solve is how do I take, to Jenna's point around supply chain or food providence, whatever it is, how do I actually open it so I can now start writing insurance events, payment events, banking, underwriting, auditing, regulation? There's this gigantic ecosystem that needs to be enabled, and again we are actively saying it's not going to be by an organic model where you and I do everything on top of a single solution. There will be a multitude of solutions, and what we need to solve for is how do we convert them from disparate islands that don't talk to each other into a cohesive ecosystem? >> This is a great point. We were talking on our intro, and we talked last night on our panel, about standards. If you look at all the major inflection points where wealth was created and value was created around innovation and entrepreneurship and industry inflection points, there's always some sort of standard thing that happened. >> Right. >> Whether it's the OSI model during the early days of the internet to certain protocols that made things happen with the internet. Here, it's interesting because if you have one chain and rule the world, it's got to be up and running. >> Yeah. >> It's not. There's no one thing yet, so I see that trend the cloud has, private cloud, public cloud, but public cloud was first but people had data centers. >> Right. >> Both not compatible, now the trend is multi-cloud. You can almost connect the dots of saying multi-chain >> Right. >> Might be a big trend. >> Right. >> This is kind of what you're teasing out here. >> That's exactly what we're about, and I think it's very interesting, the point you're making about dissimilarities between the two domains. We are in a cloud convention, and to me it means two things. One, we absolutely see the mainstream people, the mainstream players in industry, starting to take this seriously. It used to be a completely disparate world where you guys are a bunch of crazies with your Bitcoin and ether and what not. They're definitely taking this seriously now. The second thing, when you think of cloud as a model, how cloud evolved, we used to have these conversations around are you crazy, you're telling me that my data is not going to be on premise? >> It's not secure, now it's the most secure. >> Oh my God! It's in the cloud, what's a cloud? (laughing) You think of the progression model that was applicable back then, right? 10 years, 15 years back, where we started privately and we tell them OK, we'll take this side step of hybrid and then fully public. Took them a while, took them almost 20 years to get their heads around it. >> There's no one trajectory. What's interesting about block chain and crypto with token economics, there's no one trend you can map an analog to, you can't say this is going to be like this trend of the past. It's almost developing it's own kind of trajectory. A lot of organic community involvement. Different tech involvement. >> Totally. >> Different engineering mindsets coming together. You're seeing an engineering-led culture big time going on. That's propelling it up to the conversations of let's lay down the pipes, let's start running apps, but I'll do it within a two year window (laughing). >> I think the big thing to understand about that is yes, you need a whole host of developer talent to build distributed systems, but at the end of the day those systems still have to be used by people. They still have to be used by society, you still have to understand how to talk to your chief executives about what's happening within your company or what your tech teams are doing. There's a growing need for marketers, for PR people, for people who speak, I don't want to say plain English, but people who understand how-- >> Translate it to the real world. >> Yeah, they need to translate it, and how to bridge the gap between legacy systems and how do you take what you were doing before and transform it to a distributed ledger system? How do you do that without just paving the cow path? >> It's interesting, it's almost intoxicating, 'cause you got two elements that get people excited. You got the token economics, which gets people to go, "Whoa," the economics and the liquidity of money and/or value creation capture equations completely changing some of the business model stuff, which could be translated to software and Dapps and software general stuff or SaaS, et cetera. Then you got the plumbing or the networking side of it where things like latency, interoperability, absolutely matter, so with all that going on in real time, it's kind of happening at 30,000 feet and trying to change the airplane engine out. People are failing, and so there's some false promises, there's also false hopes that have not been achieved, so this clouds up the real big picture which is this is an innovative environment. We're seeing that trend. But when you get to the end of the day, what are people working on, to me, is the tell sign. Kesem, what's your project, talk about AION and the work you're doing, specifically give some examples of some of the things that you're doing in the trenches. >> Sure. >> What are you trying to solve, what are some examples you're running into and how does that relate to how things might evolve going forward? >> Sure, so there is a multitude of different problems that we work on but if you want to stick just to the fundamentals? Let's take one gigantic issue that everyone's kind of tackling from different perspectives, let's talk about scale. Scale is, especially in block chains especially challenging just because of how the technology works. How decentralized can you get before you're faced with gigantic latencies and before transaction cost are kind of through the roof? When you think about it, that is all a result of how we kind of contemplate these early stage networks. It was always the one network that is going to scale to infinity. Absolutely not the way it's going to work out. So from my perspective, again, sticking to this one issue, if you could actually give me a decentralized rail that maintains consensus throughout two networks, I can now actually have two trusted kind of go-tos instead of always putting the full brunt of the throughput on one single network. For us, that's kind of a no brainer application to interoperability. If you could actually give me all these trusted networks that work in tandem, I could now start splicing throughputs across many different parallel kind of rails. Not to similar than how we can solve for super computing. We understood there is a limit on how fast can a single CPU go and we started going wide. >> That's an interesting point, I want to just double click on that for a second because if you think about it, why would I have multiple rails and multiple systems? Maybe the use cases are different for them. >> Correct. >> You don't want to have to pick one cloud or one chain to rule them all because it's not optimized. We saw that with monolithic systems and cloud is all about levels of granularity and micro service and micro everything, right? >> Correct. >> And I would also say that gets into a security issue as well, right? You're talking about multiple layers but you also will have multiple layers of permission. You'll have multiple layers of how much information someone can see and what I think is emerging, if data is the new oil, then what's emerging is for the first time we're now able to trust data that we do not own. For corporations who say, "I don't know to market to you "if I don't know everything about you." But at the end of the day, they want to be able to leverage your data but they don't need to secure it and I think that cybersecurity issue is a huge, huge thing that's definitely coming. >> I want to get both of your thoughts on this, because we were talking about this last night. We were riffing on the notion that with cloud compute and data really drove scale. So Amazon is a great example and their value now is things like Kinesis and Aurora, some of their fastest growing services. You got SageMaker, probably will be announced at re:Invent coming up as the fastest growing service, right now it's Aurora. All data concepts. So the dataization really made cloud, great. >> True. >> Okay what's the analog for crypto and block chain? Tokenization is an interesting concept. There's almost an extension of cloud where you're saying, hey, with tokenization, the tokenization phase, how do you explain that to a common person? You say, is token going to be the token and the money aspect of and the economics the killer app? How's it transverse the infrastructures, plural? >> Yeah, or is the wallet going to be the browser? Or how are all of these things happening? >> How do you make sense of this? What's your reaction to that trend? >> So I actually get excited when I think about what token, on the most profound level, actually means. When you kind of think of where value happens in the context of these gigantic enterprises, right? You think of Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook, any of them, and you kind of think of what the product is, it's all about the data and it's all about how do you convince people to give up data so they can monetize on it. And then you have two distinct, like literally gigantic groups of stakeholders at play. You have the users, that essentially get something free, right? I get to post on Facebook or I get to write an e-mail on Gmail. Then you have the stakeholders that actually extract all that value from my activities. A token, I think most profoundly represents, how do we actually get to a unified group where the user himself is the stakeholder that gets to extract the data? And again, the proposition is pretty straightforward. The more you use a network and the more the network becomes valuable and grows, the more value the token that drives at it. >> So it changes the value capture equation? >> Correct, different model altogether. >> The value creators get to capture the value and obviously network effects plays a big part in this? >> Yes. >> Which is your wheelhouse. (laughing) >> Yeah, definitely. I think it really comes down to core principles. Now you're able to really get down, to what Kesem was talking about, about when you're designing a token or if you're designing an incentive mechanism, you're really going down to the sort of deep game theory of why people do specific things and if we can financially incentivize people to do good rather than punish them or fine them for doing bad then we can actually create value for everyone. We're designing a new economy that now has the ability to propel itself in a fair and prosperous way, if done correctly, obviously that's the disclaimer afterwards, but. >> I love what you're saying there because if you look at collective intelligence a lot of the AI concepts came around from collective intelligence, predictive analytics, prescriptive analytics all came around using data to create value. I always talk about fake news because we have a cloud of media business that's kind of tokenized now but fake news it two things, it's payload, fake news, the fake content and then the infrastructure dynamics that they arbitraged, with network effects. They targeted specific people, fake payload, but the distribution was a network effect. Again, this was the perverse incentive that no one was monitoring, there was no- >> Well and I think in that case, yes there is news that is inherently false information but then there's also a whole spectrum of trueness, if you want to call it that so now we have this technology that allows us to overlay on top of that and say, "Well what is the providence of my information?" And with different layers of block chain systems you're actually able to prove the providence of your information without exposing the user's privacy and without exposing the whole supply chain of the media because there's like media buyers, go through all kinds of hands. >> And we believe the answer to fake news, frankly, is data access, collective intelligence and something like a block chain where you have incentive systems to filter out the fake news. >> Totally. >> Exactly. >> Reputation systems, these things are not new concepts. >> It's all about stake at the end of the day, right? It's how do you keep a stakeholder accountable for their action? You need backing so I think we're definitely on the same page. >> I love, I could talk about fake news all day because we think we can solve that with our CUBEcoin token coming out soon. I want to shift gears and talk about some of the examples we've seen with cloud. >> Sure. >> And try to map that to some navigation for people in how to get through the block chain token world. One of the key things about the cloud was something they called shadow IT. Shadow IT was people who said, hey, you know what? I could just put my credit card down and move this non core thing out in this cloud and prove to my boss, show them, not pitch 'em on the Power Point deck, to say look it, I just did this for that cost in this timeframe, and that started around 2009/2010 timeframe, the early digerati or the clouderati kind of did that but around 2012 it became, wow, this shadow IT is actually R and D practice. >> Mm-hmm. >> Right. >> You started to see that now, so the question that we see for people evaluating in the enterprise is how do you judge what's a good project? Certainly people are kicking the tires and doing a little bit, I won't call it shadow IT, but they're taking on some projects as you were talking about on the panel. How should they, the enterprises in general, the large companies, start thinking about how to enable a shadow IT-like dynamic and how should they evaluate the kind of projects? I think that's an area people just don't know what to look for. Your thoughts? >> I want to add a premise to that, because I think that's absolutely the right question to ask. We also need to add the why. Why should we, as people that do native crypto currency, even care about enterprises? A lot of people kind of theorized when Bitcoin was created to say it was anti institutional is an understatement, right? Aren't we meant to kill enterprise? The thing is, I don't think it's going to be a big bang. I don't think it's going be we wake up and nobody's using banking anymore or nobody's using the traditional healthcare or government and you know whatever insurance policies. We care about block chain in the context of enterprise because we think block chain is a fundamentally better model of doing things. It kind of does away with the black box where I need to be in business, I need to blindly trust you and it introduces a much more transparent and democratic model of doing things. We absolutely want to introduce and make block chain mainstream because that's important for us. When you think of how we do it, to your question, AION is all about interoperability, right? We create a solution that helps scale and helps different networks, decentralized networks, communicate to each other. What we also do with MavenNet, the company I run, is essentially make that enterprise friendly. It's extremely hard to do adoption and implementation within an enterprise, they're very immune to change. >> Antibodies as they say. >> Oh. >> The antibodies to innovation, they kill innovation. >> Totally, so going back to your original question, it all starts with a P and L. If somebody is going to authorize, you know, an actual production system in enterprise for block chain, it needs to create a tangible value, a tangible return, quickly and that's the key. The model that actually scales is you start by flushing out inefficiency plate. You show the enterprise how you could actually achieve, I don't know 20%/30%, that's the order of magnitude that they care about, efficiency by moving some part of your value chain on top of a block chain. >> It has to have an order of magnitude difference or so. I mean cloud was a great example, too, it changes the operating model. >> Yeah. >> They achieve what they wanted to achieve faster and more efficiently and operated it differently. >> Correct. >> And people were starting at it like a three headed monster like what is this thing, right? The cloud thing. And throwing all kinds of fud out there, but ultimately at the end of the day, it's a new operating model for the same thing that they're trying to do with the old stuff. >> Mm-hmm. >> I mean, it's almost that simple. >> Yeah, I think in some cases you need to really, in my previous life at the Block Chain Research Institute, we encouraged a lot of our clients to really take a step back and say, well will I actually, A, will I have this problem in eight years or seven years or 20 years or 50 years, if we're really fundamentally building a new financial system or a new way of doing things that is fundamentally different? Are we building it on old technology? We need to make sure that, and that's why you've seen banks were the first in the door to say, "Yeah, payments, that sounds great, that sounds great." But the real applications that we're seeing from banks are in loyalty, they're in AMLKYC, they're in the sort of fringe operations. Something like payments is going to take a really long time to push through because of those legacy systems because payments is the fundamentals of what banks do. >> This is an interesting point, I want to get your thoughts to end the segment because I think one of the things that we've certainly seen with cloud that over the generational shifts that have happened, the timeframe for innovation is getting shorter and shorter, so timeframe is critical so if the communities are fumbling around hitting that time to value, it seems to be trending to faster and we don't want to hear slower because these systems are inadequate, they're antiquated. >> Mm-hmm. >> These are the systems that are disrupted so the timing of, whether it's standards, or interoperability or business models, operating models, they got to be faster. >> Yeah. >> That's the table stakes. >> I think it all comes down to collaborative governance. >> People have to figure out block chain faster. >> Yeah. >> What's holding us back? Or what's accelerating us? What's the key for the community at large from the engineering community and the business community to make it go faster? Your thoughts? >> Right, so I think we're still searching for the next killer app. If Bitcoin is the reason we're all sitting here today and I profoundly believe that. >> Yeah. >> What is the next thing that drives change on a global scale? That's kind of what we're trying, collectively as an industry, to figure out. Sure, many kind of roadblocks on the way. Some of them educational, perceptional, regulation, technology, but the next big wave that's going to accelerate us to the next ten years of block chain is that next killer app. Organizations such as myself, Jenna, that's our day job, we wake up and that's what we do. >> I mean I've always said, and Dr. Wong, who's the founder of Alibaba Cloud agreed with me, I've been saying that the TCPIP protocol, that standard really enabled a lot of interoperability and created lots of diverse value up the stacks of the OSI model, Open Systems Interconnect, seven layer model, actually never got standardized. It's kind of stopped at TCPIP and that was good, everyone snapped at the line, that created massive value. >> But that's a collaborative governance thing. That's people coming together and saying that these are the standards that we wish to adhere to. >> We need the moment right now. >> Yeah, so you see organizations like the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance coming out with a prospective list of standards that they think the community should adhere here. You know you have the ERC20 standard, you have all these different organizations, the World Economic Forum is playing a role in that and the UN is playing a role, especially when it comes to identity and those kind of really big, societal issues but I think that it comes down to that everyone plays a role that I'm doing my best, I think it's going to be somewhere in the realm of data so that's where I've chosen to sort of make my course. >> I think this is a good conversation to have, and I think we could continue it. I mean, I read on Medium, everyone's reading these fat protocols, thin protocols but at the end of the day what does that matter if there's no like scale? >> Yeah. >> You can have all the fat protocols you want, more of a land grab I would say but there's certainly models but is that subordinate or is that the cart before the horse? This is the conversation I think is in the hallways. >> Totally agree, totally agreed. >> Guys, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it. Breaking down real world applications of block chain we're at the Global Cloud and Block Chain Summit. It's an inaugural event and think it's going to be the kind of format we're going to see more of, cloud and block chain coming together. Collision course or is it going to come in nicely and land together and work together? We'll see, of course theCUBE's covering it. Thanks for watching. Stay with us for more all day coverage. Part of the Futurist Conference coming up the next two days. We're in Toronto, we'll be back with more after this short break. (theCUBE theme music)

>> Live, from Washington, D.C. It's theCUBE, covering the AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, and its ecosystem partners. (futuristic music) >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're live in Washington, D.C. for Amazon Web Services Public Sector Summit. This is their big show for the public sector. It's like a mini reinvent for specifically the public sector. I'm John Furrier, your host, with Stu Miniman, my co-host this segment, and Stewart Mclaurin, president of the White House Historic Association, is our guest. I heard him speak last night at a private dinner with Teresa Carlson and their top customers. Great story here, Amazon success story, but I think something more we can all relate to. Stewart, thank you for joining us and taking the time, appreciate it. >> Thanks John, it's just great to be with you. >> Okay, so let's jump into it; what's your story? You work for the White House Historical Association, which means you preserve stuff? Or, you provide access? Tell the story. >> Well, we have a great and largely untold story, and a part of our partnership with Amazon Web Services is to blow that open so more people know who we are and what we do, and have access to the White House, because it's the people's house. It doesn't belong to any one particular president; it's your house. We were founded in 1961 by First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy, who realized that the White House needed a nonprofit, nonpartisan partner. We have no government funding whatsoever, completely private. So we fund the acquisition of art, furnishings, decorative arts for the White House, if a new rug is needed, or new draperies are needed on the State Floor, or a frame needs to be regilded. We also acquire the china, the presidential and first lady portraits that are done; we fund those. But more importantly, in my view, is our education mission that Mrs. Kennedy also started, to teach and tell the stories of White House history going back to 1792, when George Washington selected that plot of land and the architect to build that house that we know today. So we unpack those stories through publications, programs, lectures, symposia, and now this new multifaceted partnership with AWS. >> Let's talk about, first of all, a great mission. This is the people's house; I love that. But it's always the secret cloak and dagger, kind of what's going on in there? The tours are not always, they're probably packed when people go through there, but the average person on the street doesn't have access. >> Sure, well, your cable news channels handle the politics and the policy of the place. We handle the building and the history, and all that's taken place there, including innovation and technology. If you think of Thomas Edison and Alexander Graham Bell, and others that evolved their early technologies through the White House, about 500,000 people get a chance to go through the White House every year. And when you think about in that small space, the president and his family lives, the president and his staff work, it's the ceremonial stage upon which our most important visitors are received, and then about 500,000 people schlep through, so you imagine 500,000 people that are going through your house, and all of that takes place. But it's very important to us for people to be able to see up close and personal, and walk through these spaces where Lincoln walked, and Roosevelt worked. >> Is that what the book you have, and share the book 'cause it's really historic, and the app that you have with Amazon, I think this is a great-- >> Sure, this is a real prize from our office. Mrs. Kennedy wanted us to teach and tell the stories of White House history, and so the first thing she wanted was a guide book, because the White House never had one. So in 1962, she published this guide book with us, and this is her actual copy. Her hands held this book. This was her copy of the book. Now, we continue to update this. It's now in its 24th edition, and each new edition has the latest renovations and updates that the latest president has added. But it's now 2018. So books are great, but we want to be able to impart this information and experience to people not only around Washington, who are going through the White House, but across the country and around the world. So this app that we've developed, you get through WHExperience at the App Store, you have three different tours. If you're walking through the White House, tours are self-guided, so unless you know what you're looking at, you don't know what you're looking at. So you can hold up an image, you can see, it brings to life for you everything that you're looking at in every room. Two other types of tours; if you're outside the White House in President's Park, it will unpack and open the doors of these rooms for you virtually, so you can see the Oval Office, and the Cabinet Room, and the Blue Room, and the Green Room. If you're around the world, there's a third tour experience, but the best part of it is, empowered by Amazon recognition technology, and it allows people to take a selfie, and it analyzes that selfie against all presidential portraits and first lady portraits, and the spatial features of your face, and it will tell you you're 47% Ronald Reagan, or 27% Jackie Kennedy, and people have a lot of fun with that part of the app. >> (laughs) That's awesome. >> Stewart, fascinating stuff. You know, when I go to a museum a lot of times, it's like, oh, the book was something you get on the way home, because maybe you couldn't take photos, or the book has beautiful photos. Can you speak a little bit about how the technology's making the tours a little bit more interactive? >> Sure, well we love books, and we'll publish six hardbound books this year on the history of the White House, and those are all available at our website, whitehousehistory.org. But the three facets of technology that we're adapting with Amazon, it's the app that I've spoken about, and that has the fun gamification element of portrait analysis, but it also takes you in a deeper depth in each room, even more so than the book does. And we can update it for seasons, like we'll update it for the Fall Garden Tour, we'll update it for the Christmas decorations, we'll update it for the Easter Egg Roll. But another part of the partnership is our digital library. We have tens of thousands of images of the White House that have literally been in a domestic freezer, frozen for decades, and with AWS, we're unpacking those and digitizing them, and it's like bringing history to life for the first time. We're seeing photographs of Kennedy, Johnson, other presidents, that haven't been seen by anybody in decades, and those are becoming available through our digital library. And then third, we're launching here a chatbot, so that through a Lex and Polly technology, AWS technology, you'll be able to go to Alexa and ask questions about White House history and the spaces in the White House, or keyboard to our website and ask those questions as well. >> It's going to open up a lot of windows to the young folks in education too. >> It is. >> It's like you're one command away; Hey, Alexa! >> It takes a one-dimensional picture off of a page, or off of a website, and it gives the user an experience of touring the White House. >> Talk about your vision around modernization. We just had a conversation with the CEO of Tellus, when we're talking about government has a modernization approach, and I think Obama really put the stake in the ground on that; former President Obama. And that means something to a lot of people, for you guys it's extending it forward. But your digital strategy is about bringing the experience digitally online from historical documents, and then going forward. So is there plans in the future, for virtual reality and augmented reality, where I can pop in and-- >> That's right. We're looking to evolve the app, and to do other things that are AR and VR focused, and keep it cool and fun, but we're here in a space that's all about the future. I was talking at this wonderful talk last night, about hundreds of thousands of people living and working on Mars, and that's really great. But we all need to remember our history and our roots. History applies to no matter what field you're in, medicine, law, technology; knowing your history, knowing the history of this house, and what it means to our country. There are billions of people around the world that know what this symbol means, this White House. And those are billions of people who will never come to our country, and certainly never visit the White House. Most of them won't even meet an American, but through this app, they'll be able to go into the doors of the White House and understand it more fully. >> Build a community around it too; is there any online social component? You guys looking around that at all? >> All of this is just launched, and so we do want to build some interactive, because it's important for us to know who these people are. One simple thing we're doing with that now, is we're asking people to socially post and tag us on these comparative pictures they take with presidents and first ladies. So there's been some fun from that. >> So Stewart, one of the things I've found interesting is your association, about 50 people, and what you were telling me off-camera, there's not a single really IT person inside there, so walk us through a little bit about how this partnership began, who helps you through all of these technical decisions, and how you do some pretty fun tech on your space. >> Unfortunately, a lot of historical organizations are a little dusty, or at least perceived to be that way. And so we want to be a first mover in this space, and an influencer of our peer institutions. Later this summer, we're convening 200 presidential sites from around the country, libraries, birthplaces, childhood homes, and we're going to share with them the experience that we've had with AWS. We'll partner or collaborate with them like we're already doing with some, like the Lincoln Library in Illinois, where we have a digitization partnership with them. So with us, it's about collaboration and partnership. We are content rich, but we are reach-challenged, and a way to extend our reach and influence is through wonderful partnerships like AWS, and so that's what we're doing. Now another thing we get with AWS is we're not just hiring an IT vendor of some type. They know our mission, they appreciate our mission, and they support our mission. Teresa Carlson was at the White House with us last Friday, and she had the app, and she was going through and looking at things, and it came to life for her in a new real and fresh way, and she'd been to the White House many times on business. >> That's great; great story. And the thing is, it's very inspirational on getting these other historic sites online. It's interesting. It's a digital library, it's a digital version. So, super good. Content rich, reach-challenged; I love that line. What else is going on? Who funds you guys? How do you make it all work? Who pays the bills? Do you guys do donations, is it philanthropy, is it-- >> We do traditional philanthropy, and we'd love for anybody to engage us in that. During the Reagan Administration in 1981, someone had the brilliant idea, now if I'd been in the room when this happened, I probably would have said, "Okay, fine, do that." But thank goodness we did, because it has funded our organization all these years. And that's the creation of the annual, official White House Christmas ornament, and we feature a different president each year sequentially so we don't have to make a political decision. This year, it's Harry Truman, and that ornament comes with a booklet, and it has elements of that ornament that talk about those years in the White House. So with Truman, it depicts the south balcony, the Truman Balcony on the south portico. The Truman seal that eventually evolved into being the Presidential Seal. On the reverse is the Truman Blue Room of the White House. So these are teaching tools, and we sell a lot of those ornaments. People collect them; once you start, you can't stop. A very traditional thing, but it's an important thing, and that's been a lifeblood. Actually, Teresa Carlson chairs our National Council on White House History. John Wood, that you just had on before me, is on our National Council on White House History. These are some of our strong financial supporters who believe in our mission, and who are collaborating it with us on innovative ways, and it's great to have them involved with us because it brings life in new ways, rather than just paper books. >> Stewart, I had a non-technical question for you. According to your mission, you also obtained pieces. I'm curious; what's the mission these days? What sort of things are you pulling in? >> Well, there's a curator in the White House. It's a government employee that actually manages the White House collection. Before President and Mrs. Kennedy came into the White House, a new president could come in and get rid of anything they wanted to, and they did. That's how they funded the new, by selling the old. That's not the case anymore. With the Kennedys, there's a White House collection, like a museum, and so we'll work with the White House and take their requests. For example, a recent acquisition was an Alma Thomas painting. Alma Thomas is the first African American female artist to have a work in the White House collection; a very important addition. And to have a work in the White House collection, the artist should be deceased and the work over 25 years old, so we're getting more of the 21st century. The great artists of the American 20th century are becoming eligible to have their works in the collection. >> Stewart, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and sharing your story. It's good to see you speak, and thanks for the ornament we got last night. >> Sure. Well, you've teased this ornament. Everybody's going to want and need one now, so go to whitehousehistory.org. >> John, come on, you have to tell the audience who you got face matched recognition with on the app. >> So who did you get face matched with? >> I think I'm 20% James Buchanan, but you got the Gipper. >> I'm Ronald Reagan. Supply-side economics, trickle-down, what do they call it? Voodoo economics, was his famous thing? >> That's right. >> He had good hair, John. >> Well, you know, our job is to be story tellers, and thank you for letting us share a little bit of our story here today. We love to make good friends through our social channels, and I hope everyone will download this app and enjoy visiting the White House. >> We will help with the reach side and promote your mission. Love the mission, love history, love the digital convergence while preserving and maintaining the great history of the United States. And a great, good tool. It's going to open up-- >> Amazon gave us these stickers for everybody who had downloaded the app, so I'm officially giving you your downloaded app sticker to wear. Stu, this is yours. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks guys, really appreciate it. >> Thank so much, great mission. Check out the White House-- >> Historical Association. >> Historicalassociation.org, and get the White House app, which is WHExperience on the App Store. >> That's right. >> Okay, thanks so much. Be back with more, stay with us. Live coverage here at AWS, Amazon Web Services Public Sector Summit. We'll be right back. (futuristic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey, welcome back to The Cube. Continuing live coverage on day three of AWS re:Invent 2017. We have had three days of great coverage, 44,000 or plus people at this event, lots of great announcements from AWS, from their partners, and we're very excited to be joined by our next guest, Christoph Pfister, the Executive Vice President of products from SolarWinds. Thanks for stopping by and chatting with Justin and me today. >> Thank you for having me. >> So tell us, what's going on at SolarWinds? What are some of the cool things that you're here to announce? >> Right, so first of all, great show, isn't it? >> Justin: Amazing. >> Lisa: Very (mumbles). Yes. (Christoph laughs) >> And it's a great show for us because we've announced a few new products and initiatives, and amongst them, the first product that provides both powerful and affordable full-stack monitoring for DevOps people. And so we'll talk hopefully a little bit more about that in a few minutes, but that's really the heritage of SolarWinds. We provide software that's simple, yet powerful and affordable, and we've been doing that since about 1999, when the company was founded in Austin, Texas. And the big thing about this is that we build software that IT professionals love, and they love it because it's simple, approachable, affordable, yet powerful, and that has propelled us to a leadership position in Network Management, Network Monitoring. So, SolarWinds is the number one by market share in that space, and we're now aiming to bring that to the... That simplicity, that power to cloud monitoring as well. >> So, you have a great community of people-- >> Yes, huge community. >> Who love SolarWinds. Massive community, the ThWACK community, and everything that people talk about online-- >> You know the company well. That's good. >> I know the company well. I've been to Austin many times, I've been to the campus. It's a great company. So, people know those tools really well. As you say, you're very, very strong in network monitoring, so tell us a bit more about this full-stack monitoring that you're doing. What do you mean by "full-stack"? >> Yes, so if you think about some of the key trends we see in the market... Let's go top to bottom. AWS announcing all these services here at the event, machine learning services, (mumbles) services, new database stuff... Amazing. And so, all of these services gonna to make their way, eventually, into applications, into apps, right? So, there's going to be more and more apps, and these apps gonna deliver value to business, to consumers, and therefore need to run pretty much flawlessly, right? Yet, behind this usually simple user experience of these apps, these apps have become massively complex, right? So, back in the day, and I'm going to date myself a little bit now, when I started in monitoring, it was pretty simple. There was a (mumbles) server, three tiers, and the app was pretty static, right? So nowadays, it's all about microservices-- >> All those microservices. >> All these dependencies that exist, which means that if there's a failure, it may be cascading failure, and so it's much, much more difficult to figure out if your app is doing well or not. And so, monitoring becomes so much more important in that context. And by the way, here at the show, people talk about monitoring a lot, and maybe (mumbles) that I would have is that in the marketplace, one of the top eight categories that Dave (mumbles) mentioned on stage at the (mumbles) event was monitoring is the one thing in the marketplace that people just need and want, so monitoring is important, and so what we're announcing here at... What we've announced here at the show is a brand new product called AppOptics, and AppOptics converges traditional infrastructure and application performance management, and provides coverage for what we call "The Three Layers of Observability," which are metrics, logs, and transaction traces, because we think that without transaction traces in these microservices-type architectures, very, very difficult to get to the root cause of issues, and so, we aim to cover the three layers of, or the three pillars, of observability: metrics, logs and traces, with AppOptics, and do it in a way that is simple and approachable. >> What do you mean by... I think it was a press article that you were quoted in about "democratizing monitoring." What do you mean by-- >> Do you like that term? >> It's very cool. (Christoph laughs) But what does it mean? >> What does it mean? Alright, so if you think about companies with application portfolios, right, so large companies may have between 500 and 800 apps, but there's studies out there that say only about 10% to 15% are being monitored. And so, why is that? It's for two reasons in our view. One is that application performance monitoring has been very affordable, so it's a question of "If I need to buy... If you need to pay $100 a host to get application performance monitoring, then many companies are not going to do it. And second reason is approachability and simplicity, meaning if you have to instrument you app manually... And I know you guys had a guest the other day, who talked about the importance of instrumenting apps. That's totally true, but you have to make it approachable, meaning the instrumentation has to be automatic. And that's exactly what we provide. We provide automatic, one single line instrumentation for all these microservices' languages. So, we cover seven languages, we cover PHP, Python, Java, the .Net... And I'm forgetting a few, of course, and so making your application performance and infrastructure monitoring number one, cheaper... So, we start with AppOptics at $7.50 a host a month. If you compare that to the hundreds of bucks a host a month that are kind of common game in the industry right now, that's pretty disruptive. And we make it much, much quicker to instrument these apps. So, that's what we mean by democratizing application performanceand infrastructure management because we think many more companies will be able to afford it, and many more companies will be able to actually deploy this stuff in a timely manner. >> So once you've instrumented it, who's it targeted for? Because, developers love to live in code land and do everything through APIs, but operators do actually like to be able to see things in charts, and for me, I like living on the command line absolutely, but I enjoy a good picture as well, and sometimes it's much, much easier to see what's happening if I just draw a graph, rather than sitting there looking at streams of code flying by. >> Christopher: Absolutely. >> So, do you have both of those options available in a DevOps model or... >> Christoph: We totally (mumbles). Who are the people you target for? So, we target the DevOps engineers, sometimes called System Reliability Engineer, and so, we provide dashboards, like the metrics, of course, that you would traditionally want to see and see how things are going over time. We provide the traces, and also, that's very graphical, so you see how much time a transaction spends in each of the layers of the app in each of the microservices. >> Justin: Okay. >> And that's very visual as well. And then, of course, we provide RESTful APIs as well to a lot of developers to do stuff with it. >> Yeah. >> So, couple things that I heard you say in terms of the value preposition SolarWinds brings is being able to facilitate from 15% to hopefully 100% of applications being monitored. That price has really been-- >> 80% would be great. >> If we get to 80%, we'll be great. (Lisa laughs) >> Well, you said that price has been a really big inhibitor, so you guys do it for a lot less and faster. Can you give an example of a customer that you've really helped transform, so that they get much more visibility into upwards of 80% of their applications? >> Yeah, so I mean, AppOptics is just coming out, so we've announced it; it's a new product. And so, we've had tons (mumbles) in beta. The first thing that I would say is that all of them were up and running, and actually getting metrics into the dashboard in between three and five minutes, so very, very fast. (Mumbles) this one line... Auto-instrumentation really clicks. And so there's universities, there is smaller IT shops, there's big companies who are interested in that kind of stuff. In general, one of the things that people don't necessarily know about SolarWind's portfolio is we've started to invest in Cloud, in roughly 2014. We've acquired some premiere product and franchises, one of them being Pingdom, for digital experience monitoring. Another one being Papertrail, which is an amazing hosted log-management solution. And between these solutions, we have about... Slightly short of a million users already. >> Lisa: Wow. >> So, significant, significant footprint in the marketplace, and so, customers that are "cloud native," born in the cloud companies like GitHub, Spotify, AirBnb, and so... Uber, as an example... And you have the traditional companies: New York Times, BBC, packaging companies, smaller compa-- I mean, it really running the gammit of the space out there. >> What is digital experience monitoring, and how are you doing that? >> That's a great question. (Lisa laughs) >> So, we look at digital experience monitoring from two facets, really. The first facet is... So, I talked a lot about observability and sort of the white-box monitoring, where you gotta drill down into the code and the transaction, and so on, but typically one goal of monitoring is to be ahead of your consumers in terms of noticing problems. And so for that, the best way, is really, is to have synthetic transactions that simulate user behavior hitting your app. And so, that's one... Synthetic monitoring's one dimension of digital experience. But beyond that, and that's where we're investing very heavily with Pingdom is this notion of... Yeah, we talk a lot about apps, but there's lots of companies out there that are putting their stuff out on websites, right? So nowadays, if I go to the doctor and later on, I want to see my test results, it's on a website. If I go to take my car to the garage, they make appointments on a website. And many times, these people have no idea how their site is doing, what the response time is, all that kind of stuff. And that's what Pingdom provides, but what we're doing, taking it beyond the simple (mumbles) time and performance is we're marrying business metrics, like bounce rates... What's a bounce rate of the site? What's the revenue that's the site driving right now if it's a revenue-generating site, and correlating that with the performance aspects of the site. How are the transactions doing? How long does it take from the first click to the shopping cart? And so, that's what we think of as digital experience, and there's much, much more to do because, really, what you want to do at the end is to see how users flow through your webpage, and where they probably disengage, where they move somewhere else. You want to detect these spots and see if it has to do anything with the performance or the way you laid out the site. And so, digital experience monitoring, we think, is going to be huge. >> Lisa: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for stopping by, Christoph, and speaking with Justin and me. We could keep going, but unfortunately-- >> Christoph: Yeah! >> We are out of time. >> It's so short. >> Exactly, but we look forward to having you back on the show next time. >> I'd be delighted. >> And we want to thank you for watching. I'm Lisa Martin for my co-host, Justin Warren. You're watching The Cube live from day three at AWS re:Invent 2017. Stick around, we'll be right back.