(upbeat music) >> Welcome to theCUBE coverage of women in tech. International Women's Day 2022. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Karla Wong joins me next. Country Sales Leader for the Commercial Sector in Peru at AWS. Karla, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you so much Lisa and thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be with you today. >> I'm looking forward to chatting with you. You've been in the tech industry for more than 20 years, you've been a leader in tech and sales and customer service, partners, organizations. Talk to me a little bit about your background. >> I am a system engineer. I have some studies from enterprise direction with a university in Savannah, Columbia and I have a digital transformation certified with MIT in Boston. >> Fantastic, were you always interested in technology or STEM or was it something that you pivoted into somewhere during your career? >> Yes, you know what? Since I was little, I was just fascinated with the technology and all the time I was just trying to figure out how to do things and how to build that things and I remember once I was just, of course many time long ago, I was with this BHS, right? An equipment and I tried to do and tried to understand how this works and just figure out I was with many parts of that equipment and then I didn't realize how to join that parts but it was really funny because all the time I was trying to understand what is behind that kind of equipment, how this works and all the time I was asking and my dad said, I was just feeling so curiosity about that and asking many questions and I have uncles that they are engineers. So I was just all the time asking about that and they said, you know what? You are good in math, maybe you can just decide for an engineering career. They were encouraged me for doing that. So I guess that was my first clue that I'm interested in technology. >> Well, you sounds like you have a natural curiosity that you had great role models in your parents and probably others along your educational route and your career route that kind of encouraged that curiosity and being curious is one of the things that's important to being at AWS. Am I right? >> Yes, it's really important because we promote, you know, our, one of the main leadership principles that you read is learn to be curious and they promote that one, right? They're encouraging you to innovate, to learn more, to try to understand more about our solutions, our customers, how to make the things better and you have the space to propose new things, to do the things better. So they encourage you and they empower you to do that and you feel like your curiosity that you have very natural here's improved and they just promote that you continue to do that. >> That curiosity is so important. I mean, when we think about women in technology and we think about bringing in more thought diversity and DEI, it's important to be curious, to be able to bring different thoughts in so that the organization can be more well rounded, it can learn, you also not only do you lead the sales organization, but you are someone that's very active in volunteering. Tell me a little bit about that and how do you balance leading a sales organization and volunteering at the same time? >> You know, when you talk about this is more like work life balance, right? And when we talk about that you can feel like you need it, right? You need to work on that. It's more like an attitude of it's extremely important to think about mental health for everyone because that of course have impact in your physical health and when you talk about this, it not only matters in terms of attitude, it's action and disciplines as well and you have to keep in mind that. The first thing I believe and all the time I do it give the right value for this balance because it's something that a lot of people want more than anything and I have more than some professional decision thinking about this precisely and I have to thinking of me as a person, my family, how to help the community and you cannot imagine the impact when you decide to go for a volunteering activities how can benefit you and not in only the personal way, in your professional way. Even though you didn't start a volunteering, trying to figure out how this help you in your professional life, you receive a lot of benefits from the volunteering activities and it's amazing how that one's impacting your professional life also. When you are a volunteer, you'll receive new and meaningful experiences. Volunteering can be an excellent getaway to find unique and valuable experiences that you are very difficult to find in a day to day basis, right? And you develop your real life skills, openness to criticism, responsibility, humility, commitment, service, attitude, many things that you can proactively include in your job with your team and you can join with them in teamwork and try to figure out how to engage with them in your activities. This is another way to motivate your team, to build your team, right? Talking with this very valuable experiences and also I find out that that improves your health and mood. >> Sounds very-- >> We talk having-- >> Sorry. >> I'm sorry, no don't worry. >> That's very complimentary, that the volunteer work with leading the sales organization that there's so much value that you're bringing into your sales leadership role from the volunteering that you do. I'm just curious, can you describe some of the volunteer organizations that you work with? I think it's pretty impressive. >> Yes, I started my volunteering 14 years ago I guess but I was in the volunteering activities from the school and my dad was a really strong influence for that because I joined, I remember joining with him and go to do some volunteering activities that he led and I start 14 years I went with Operation and Smile group and then in the last two or three years I start with Project of Love. We are focused on kids with cancer and try to help them to build the last wishes they have because they pass away and at the end of this, this two years ago, I start with local activity that we do for patients with rare diseases and we just try to join two great passion that I have. One is the dance that we have here. The name of our national dance is Marinera Norteña and we are just doing this with a group that they are passion at the same time with this volunteering activities and the dance and we just trying to be the ambassador for and the voice for these patients, try to share with the community, the hard health journey that they have trying to obtain a fair treatment, a fair diagnostic, because they are rare disease and here is very difficult that they investigate about that. So that's why we are just doing this using dance as a way to broadcast our voice and just share happiness and hope and health. >> Happiness and hope. Those are two great things. So as the female leader in the tech industry, what are some of the main challenges that you have found regarding cultural aspects, regarding geographical aspects and LATAM? Talk to me about some of those challenges. >> Let me share with you my personal journey. My challenges started with the moment I decided to start engineering. A career that is traditional considered for men only, although this changes over the time, you will realize that the stereotype remains in many people minds right? It happens not only in Peru I can see it in Latin America. Someone once asked me if I wouldn't like to study something easier for a woman, right? And I just, when I received that question, that helping me to reaffirm that it was taking the right decision and I have the fortune to work with companies that believe in female leadership and the importance of our contribution and empower me to do things differently. Although I must confess that this was not always like this. I experienced the situation when I have to show that I'm so much and more capable and prepared than a man to take a major challenge. So despite the fact in the recent years you have had the great advances in integration of women in the field of science and technology, the gap in equality in equality in this sector still continues and many times the attitude towards women is discriminatory considering that we don't have enough knowledge and we don't have enough strength to overcome challenge without the ability to give the extra mile that is often required, or simply because of a gender issue. And generally speaking, opportunities that they're not equal. Neither in salaries. Several studies have revealed that in the same position since at position level within company, men's salary or benefits are higher than the woman. In addition, sometimes the position for a woman is not necessarily for merit it's just to feel fulfill a gender quota and when it's fulfilled, there's no more opportunities. So it's still a long way to go. We are working in that, we are trying to inspire more women to be part of this world. This is an amazing world and this world needs our leadership, judgment, ambition, as a woman. So that's why we try to inspire and try to be a role model for some young ladies that they are thinking about this career in technology. >> Right, you bring up a great point though about one of the things in terms of hiring for quotas. And as we think about this International Women's Day, this year's theme is Breaking the Bias. Where do you think we are with that? >> I think we have a lot long, long way to go to. Today we don't see that we have more women in some leadership roles in technology. We see more young ladies studying engineering but you know what, when you talk about stereotypes we need to understand, or the bias, the bias is not only what the society it's giving you, it's also your own bias because we need to understand that technology careers is not only for men it's also for a woman. And we need to understand and change the perspective that we see the challenges that we have in our life because sometimes that could be a really stopper in your professional life. And for me, we don't, we really need to understand that it's important. We cannot stop believing in ourself and we can achieve whatever we want. So we never stop pursuing our goals and achieve what you really need to achieve and as I said all the time, get inspired by women with great achievements who have changed this world technology. We have many examples of that for many years. We have Eva Maria Kiesler, the core inventor of Wi-Fi, Radia Joy Perlman, known as the the mother of the internet and Ada Lovelace who became the first female computer programmer. So we have many examples in this story to understand that the limit is on you. So the bias we need to break the first one is the bias that you have of yourself. >> That's a good point. That's a really good point there. I'm curious, what would your recommendation be? You obviously had, you had that natural curiosity that we talked about. You also seems like you had great parents who were very encouraging of all of the different things that you were interested in. What do you recommend for women maybe starting out in the STEM area or in tech in particular? How do they get that courage to just try? >> You know what, the main thing I guess as I mentioned before, is to put aside the stereotypes, right? And get out of your head, the standing out career like science, technology and engineering is only for a man. All the time I have this list for me, that is lesson learned. And my lesson learned is please don't think that you cannot do it. Try it. If you go and the things do not work well, try it again and try it again. So don't feel stopped because you face your first challenge and the challenge it's very difficult, because we have the courage to do that and you know what? It is very and interesting to understand that women has resilience, we have the courage to do anything, we are multi tasking all the time they say women can do many things at the same time and we have this particular way to communicate. We are very inclusive. We make empathy. We're just leading with a cohesion concept of a team. So we need to explore more about our strengths and try to encourage from them. And one of the main things for me is don't feel afraid and transform, you know, when you feel like that, transfer that as your power, you're encouraged to continue. So we need to transform our fears in our, I always said our gasoline to continue and then your motive to be successful. So transform your fears. >> I love that. >> That's my main focus. >> Transform your fear. That's great advice there is. And I will say no, don't be afraid to raise your hand and ask a question 'cause I guarantee you, many people in the room whether it's a physical room these days or it's a virtual video conferencing room, probably have the same question. Be the one to raise your hand and ask. But I love how you're saying transform that fear 'cause it's there. Don't be afraid to fail but also we need to have those female role models, mentors and sponsors that we can see that can have help us kind of in that transformation process, that mentorship is really critical to help guide that along. >> Yes, yes, yes, that's correct and I will, I am, I was really fortunate because I have real role models in my life not only, as I mentioned my dad and also one of the things that I recognize in this company that I work for that empower leadership from women and I identify some role models I want to follow and I ask her in each particular company to be my coach and to be my mentor, because of course you are starting in the technology side and you need more from others that they can share with you her wisdom, right? And try to give you advice, how to work on that. And I always said, and I will always repeat because I sometimes I have the opportunity to mentor young ladies that they are very curious about the technology side and I share with them my experience, my lesson learned so they can build their own story to do this and I share all the time don't compete in a male environment in a gray suit. You have your own personality, you have your own strengths, you're a woman and you have your strength as a woman. Show that, be, you know, the black point in the middle of the white environment because you're different, your leadership is different. You have to understand that, value that and explore more about that so you can inspire others and you can inspire yourself and it's fair to say, please identify your achievements and value them because you deserve that, you fight for them and you have to be celebrate for that. >> Right. >> So that's the main, you know, the main idea when I share with these ladies but it's right, it's fair to be recognized for that. It's your effort, it's your way to do the things differently and it's very appreciated. >> Very appreciated and very inspiring. Thank you so much Karla for sharing your story, how you are balancing work life volunteerism, how it's complimentary. I found this conversation very inspiring so thank you so much for joining me today. >> Thank you. No, thank you so much Lisa. It was really a pleasure for me to be with you today. >> Excellent, likewise. For Karla Wong, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of women in tech, International Women's Day 2022. 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>>live from Seattle, Washington. It's the booth covering smartsheet engaged 2019. Brought to you by smartsheet. >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of smartsheet engaged here in Seattle. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host, Jeff. Rick. We're joined by Anna Griffin. She is the CMO of smartsheet. Thanks so much for coming on the Cube. Thank you, guys for having me appreciate it. So you were your pretty new to this company. Joined in April. I'd love to hear, but you've also had an illustrious career in marketing. You've worked summers and big names, including Apple and Nortel and and Saturn. And you've also worked for Land's end and a whole bunch of different varied career. What attracted you to smart? >>She You know, it was interesting when I first got the call about smartsheet. I had never heard of it. And the way that it was positioned to me was super intriguing. I realized it was one of those a category that's just not established, but a category that has the potential to be the next big thing. And we're not even the potential. I mean, it will be the next big thing and, you know, I met with that was intriguing. But then, you know, I met with the executive team, and it was a perfect combination of a killer product, but a killer company. I can't tell you how special the leadership of this company is and their authenticity and their passion and their drive and their belief. It's so contagious. There's no way you would not want to be a part of it. So on, then, the privilege to be able to tell this company's story I feel like it is the best kept story. Not only in Seattle, potentially the world on I plan to tell the story and And what a gift it was. A great opportunity is a marketer toe have this type of opportunity. >>Well, we're gonna get into how you're going to tell the story. Okay, See you later. But so now you've been here a few months. It is your first ever engaged. What? What does he what are your impressions? >>Well, I wish I had been thio previous engaged to have something to compare it to. But the fact that this conference has doubled in size 4000 customers here and it's only its third show. I will tell you in the industry I've worked, you know, managing events teams for many, many, many years. Not a lot of conferences grow at this size, and Soto have 4000 customers here who are zealots. They are their passion for the product and what it's doing and what it's doing for there. Not only their companies, but their own personal careers. There isn't an empowerment story through their mouse that will just inspire you. So it's It's incredible. The energy here is really, really especially. >>Feel it, too. Way See >>it a lot of the smaller conferences, early days. That's why they're fun to be. Here were last year, when those 2000 it was adjacent to the to the office across the across the water. Exactly, but it is a really passion community, and, you know, Thio here, literal, literal cheers and claps at features. Well, it's great to see, like copy paste from one road to the other because it's clearly something that means something these people and that they have asked for and the company is delivered and really demonstrates, is listening to engage these crazy people. It's a great asset >>wave. That listening thing is huge, and I feel like that's one of the things. And I think it's why there is a CMO now. That's why I get the privilege to be the first CMO is because the customers said way need more awareness of this company. We need our our executives. We need lines of business leaders. We need i t to know who you are and the magic of what you do. We need awareness is gonna make it that much easier for us to get much wider adoption across these companies. If people know who you are and they know you know what you're capable of. So listening. That is one of the number one things we've heard. It's like awareness. They wanted awareness. So because it'll help make them more successful. So I think that was the catalyst for Okay, let's get a cheap Marty Officer, Let's go build >>that about you. What are you gonna do? What it wanted? Some of your top priority is to tell the story and to build brand awareness. >>Yeah, well, um well, you're the first thing was to really kind of Titan are positioning again. It's a great great products make great brands, and this is a great product company. But man were starting to do so much ward than just killer products. We're really getting into this enablement this, um right, transforming companies. And so I wanted to make sure we're positioned properly. And we're really positioning mawr in a more transformative altitude and the capabilities of what we can do. We have found we've spent way too much time talking about technology versus people versus what technology and people are going to do together. And that is the magic of what smartsheet does. It really takes platform a common platform that basically integrates with the Czech investment that you've already made with the systems of record that you already have pools that data out and then allows the people I work with that data all in a common really time, you know, application. And when you can marry those two things together that tech and people, that's when one plus one equals three. And so we call that that three is what we really call achievement again, Like everybody in our space is work work, work, task management, project management, the capability of smart shit Yeah, we do all that, too. But when you play in that transformative altitude, we're in a bling achievement and it enterprise wide level and achieve it like what your business can achieve. But this is the more special part. And this is where I get excited. Did you feel to tell this story is the achievement happens at a personal level to like again? I'm telling you when I talk to customers and I see what they're doing right, you don't understand. You have changed my career. I'm doing more strategic work. I am. I am seen differently in my company. I champion this, like all of a sudden, I am leading big teams. I went from this to this, and there they're empowerment is so big and so really that last mile of digital transformation is cultural transformation. And that's what this product does. And so job one was position. That's properly so we can tell that type of story and really put our solutions in that kind of light because that's what it does on then job to is to launch the campaign launches to the world. So we just launched two weeks ago, and it's a slow roll. I mean, we have hundreds of assets, it in place. So if I love seeing us on television, you know I love seeing is deeply in digital. I love some of the new interesting things that that we could do in media. But when our customers are saying that, you know they're seeing it a CMO like you high from it. Yeah, So it's fun. So jump to launch the campaign and the campaign is, well, we call the campaign can do you know we're positioning the brand as the platform for enterprise achievement. Number one Smart sheet is a platform, I think a lot of people, you know as it's grown. I mean, it truly is a platform, and it really is enterprise strong and wide. It's skills which is important, but its scales So everybody and a company can align organizational alignment to truly achieve something bigger aligned organizations do not fill. And so that's the That's the power. But I digress. >>No question that way >>you know, one of the great legs of your of your go to market strategy and your lead jen is your licensing formula, which enables me as the Spartan sheet licensee to engage lots of people, many outside my own, not by my own team, but my own company. And let them have access to this tool. What a smart, smart waiver. Whoever came up with that licensing strategy? What a great way to introduce the opportunity to use this transformational tool to ongoing and broad audience. >>Yes, your table is so exciting. When I was in the interview process and I was riding on a plane and clearly I had met with the company and I heard somebody in front of me was a consultant, one of the consulting firms who had met a complete stranger on the plane. And somehow Smartsheet came up that she was going you got Oh, my gosh, Smartsheet. This is like she was going. This is the best kept secret. We're using it with all of our clients. We heard about it through one of our clients. That wasn't one of them. We'll use it like Oh, my gosh, this is the game changer. I'm like putting >>my here in between the wayward. I put my hand it as it did You just say smart shape. >>Literally six people on the airplane, random people like, Oh, my gosh, we use it to It was the most surreal experience, and that was when I knew, like, Okay, I've got to be a part of this Coast special. Did a lot of people are now just getting that sensation of what this thing is capable of. And, >>well, it's funny to your personal achievement story. Reminds me of any time you know you got a new software company and whether, you know, centered alloy Dorian, Why, when those guys come in, they're making a big bet right there. Some new partner's gonna bet. Bet their career on this new technology. We've heard from a number of people how betting their career internally with smartsheet has changed their position in the company. Yes, for that today, a couple of times. So clearly you know it. It is an enablement platform for someone to, you know, grab on to the to the rocket ship and ride this Marchi wave thio new and bigger, better things, >>but but also her point about just even just participating in the technology. And then they're able to, as you said, work on more strategic work, be able to do more things in their jobs that have been catapulted them to new job. So it's not even necessarily betting on smartsheet bringing in smart cheat. But it is just just using smart sheet and then therefore they have more brain time. Yes, yes, oh, engagement we're talking about, >>right, right? You know, it is because we've been talking a lot about you know, some of the really scary statistics about how disengaged people are at work and how many people are ready to quit their job. And, you know, they've got all these blocks. Is menial roadblocks in their day to day existence that are that are negatively impacting their ability to want to do their job or but actually just want to be there anymore. And so it's It's like seems maybe to the outside, looking in some of these things by seem low value, but they're actually tremendous value. If you're removing these roadblocks so I can get my job done >>totally and love your job, you love your job. But know that the work that you do matters and I think so many people have lost that feeling like there's something about working and I don't know if it's the corporate world. But it has become such a grind, and that rare opportunity would like. I love what I do, and I know that it matters. It's a gift, and this is a platform that enables bad in people. And so I think that's when the fascinating things I've been spending a lot of time on the road with customers and I was at a very big multi national, big global agricultural company. And, um, Singer, Actually, I'm watching WAY Bet with probably 200 different Just what I would call power users across seven different you know, roll types like from I t toe hsc thio, you name it. And, um, every single one of them is like art. We're doing more like we are in power, like the engagement, the employee engagement in that company through the roof because every single person felt like were hurt. I have ownership, you know. I'm doing work. I'm taking it to a new level. And so you know, sure, there is a Thanh of operational efficiencies that are gonna come out of working with smartsheet. But I think the one to watch is what's gonna happen when your workforce is truly engaged and taking ownership of the work. Those were the good. Those are the companies that are going to have a higher retention. They're gonna have you. They're going to see something in that in that talent area. So this is more than just We're getting more work done and return on investment of our our our systems, like you're going to see you know what happens when your when your employees are empowered. >>Well, the word you didn't use his innovation that I firmly believe everyone wants more innovation, their company. >>But how do you do >>it? One of those? I think it's really simple. Lever on that is you just get more people more access to more data and then the ability to do something about it and open it up to all the smart people that see problem to different prisons in different opportunities. And that's where you start to get in. A leverage is amazing talent that you already have inside your four walls. >>But what is interesting about innovation, as I think sometimes the world so over rotates that innovation is gonna be that next killer line of code or it's going to be and they forget that the power of practical innovation like it's that Siri's of small collected things at out up, allowing your entire, you know, employee population to feel like they have the power to innovate us. That every person in the company has the power because the power practical innovation can lead to something Justus Big is the big already. >>Dev. Ops has shown that that's a better way anyway, right in software development, with the grand idea with the market development plan and the product development plan and the three year build cycle that's does not win against constant religious narrative improvement. Improvement, improvement, improvement, improvement. Yes, >>indeed. So you and you said this earlier and I saw it on your Lincoln to the last mile of digital transformation is cultural transformation. How do you describe the culture at smart shape now? I mean, we've talked about the evangelical customers Yeah, about with in smartsheet itself. >>It's, um it's pretty special. Know what you're gonna say? Of course. And see him? I was gonna say special, but it is. It is rare when people everyone comes to work with this belief like this true belief that they are They have the power to influence something and touch something that's going to do something great for other people. And I think that's what eyes, the most specialised. They they're not just doing it for themselves. They know they're doing it for others, like they know they love these guys. Every single person in the company loves that customer like the love ability, They love the customer, and they feel like they've got to do their best work so their customer can do something great with it. You know, they really understand that, and that's Ah, it's an incredible place to wanna work when you, when you feel that way but toe love your customers. I think that's why our customers love us back and to be loved. You must first love and because they love you know, it's it's >>rare. Well, congratulations. It sounds like it's a great role and you're in the right place. And I can't talk to you next year and hear more about can do and and all of the wonderful things you're doing. Thank you. Thank you, guys. I'm Rebecca Knight. That wraps up the cubes. Interviews. Stay tuned for our rap of engaged 2019 you're watching the Cube

>>live from Seattle, Washington. It's the booth covering smartsheet engaged 2019. Brought to you by smartsheet. >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of smart. She engaged here in Seattle. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host, Jeff. Rick. We're joined by Anna Griffin. She is the CMO of smartsheet. Thanks so much for coming on the Q. Thank you, guys for having me appreciate it. So you were your pretty new to this company joined in April. I'd love to hear, but you've also had an illustrious career in marketing. You've worked several big names, including Apple and Nortel and and Saturn. And you've also worked for Land's end and a whole bunch of different varied career. What attracted you to smart? She You know, it >>was interesting when I first got the call about smartsheet. I had never heard of it, and the way that it was positioned to me was super intriguing. I realized it was one of those a category that's just not established, but a category that has the potential to be the next big thing. And we're not even the potential. I mean, it will be the next big thing and you know, I met with that was intriguing. But, you know, I met with the executive team and it was a perfect combination of a killer product, but a killer company. I can't tell you how special the leadership of this company is and their authenticity and their passion and their drive and their belief. It's so contagious. There's no way you would not want to be a part of it. So on, then, the privilege to be able to tell this company's story I feel like it is the best kept story not only in Seattle, potentially the world on I plan to tell the story and and what a gift. But what a great opportunity is. A marketer toe have this type of opportunity. >>Well, we're gonna get into how you're going to tell the story, okay, a little bit later, but so now you've been here a few months. It is your first ever engaged What? What does he what are your impressions? >>Well, I wish I had been thio previous engaged to have something to compare it to. But the fact that this conference has doubled in size 4000 customers here and it's only its third show. I will tell you in the industry who have worked, you know, managing events teams for many, many, many years. Not a lot of conferences grow at this size, and Soto have 4000 customers here who are zealots. They are their passion for the product and what it's doing and what it's doing for there. Not only their companies, but their own personal careers. There isn't an empowerment story through their mouse that will just inspire you. So it's It's incredible. The energy here is really, really especially. >>Feel it, too. Way See >>it a lot of the smaller conferences early days. That's why they're fun to be. Here were last year, when those 2000 it was adjacent to the to the office across the across the water. Exactly, but it is a really passion community, and you know, Thio here, literal, literal cheers and claps at features. It's great. It's like copy paste from one road to the other because it's clearly something that means something these people and that they have asked for and the company is delivered and really demonstrates, is listening to engage these crazy people. It's a great asset >>wave. That listening thing is huge, and I feel like that's one of the things. And I think it's why there is a CMO now. Why get the privilege to be the first CMO is because the customers said way need more awareness of this company. We need our our executives. We need lines of business leaders. We need i t to know who you are and the magic of what you do. We need awareness is gonna make it that much easier for us to get much wider adoption across these companies. If people know who you are and they know you know what you're capable of. So listening. That is one of the number one things we've heard. It's like awareness. They wanted awareness, so because >>it'll help make them >>more successful. So I think that was the >>catalyst for OK, let's get achieve, Marty. Officer, Let's go build that about you. What are you gonna do? What were some of your top priority is to tell the story and to build brand awareness. Yeah, well, um well, you're the first thing >>was to really kind of Titan are positioning again. It's a great great products make great brands, and this is a great product company. But man were starting to do so much more than just killer products were really getting into this enablement this, right, transforming companies. And so I wanted to make sure we're positioned properly. And we're really positioning mawr in a more transformative altitude and the capabilities of what we could do. You know, we have found we've spent way too much time talking about technology versus people versus what technology and people are going to do together. And that is the magic of what Smartsheet does. It really takes a platform, a common platform that basically integrates with the tech investments. And you've >>already made with the systems of record that you already have pools that data out and then allows >>the people I work with that data all in a common really time application. And when >>you can marry >>those two things together, that tech and people, that's when one plus one equals three. And so we call that that three is what we really call achievement again, like >>everybody in our space >>is work work, work, task management, project management, the capability of smart shit. Yeah, we do all that too. But when you're playing that transformative altitude, we're in Ebeling achievement and it enterprise wide level and achievement, like what your business can achieve. But this is the more special part, and this is where I get excited. Did you feel to tell this story is the achievement happens at a personal level to like again? I'm telling you when I talk to customers and I see what they're doing right, you don't understand. You have changed my career. I'm doing more strategic work. I am. I am seeing differently in my company. I champion this, like all of a sudden I am leading big teams. I went from this to this, and there they're empowerment is so big and so really that last mile of digital transformation is cultural transformation. And that's what this product does. And so job one was position. That's properly so we can tell that type of story and really put our solutions in that kind of light because that's what it does on then job to is to launch the campaign launches to the world. So we just launched two weeks ago and it's a slow roll. I mean, we have hundreds of assets it in place. So if I love seeing us on television, you know I love seeing is deeply in digital. I love some of the new interesting things that that we can do in media. But when our customers are saying that you know they're seeing it, a CMO like you gonna get a high from it. Yeah, So it's fun job to launch the campaign, >>and the campaign is, well, we call the campaign can do you know we're positioning >>the brand as the platform for enterprise achievement. Number one Smart sheet is a platform, I think a lot of people, you know as it's grown. I mean, it truly is a platform, and it really is enterprise strong and wide. It's skills which is important, but its scales So everybody and a company can align organizational alignment to truly achieve something bigger aligned organizations do not fill. And so that's the That's the power. But I digress. >>No question that way >>you know, one of the great legs of your of your go to market strategy and your lead Jen is your licensing formula, which enables me as the Spartan sheet licensee to engage lots of people many outside my own, not by my own team, but my own company. And let them have access to this tool. What a smart, smart waiver. Whoever came up with that licensing strategy? What a great way to introduce the opportunity to use this transformational tool to ongoing and broad audience. Yes, >>your table is so exciting. >>When I was in the interview process and I was riding on a plane and clearly I had met with the company and I heard somebody in front of me was a consultant, one of the consulting firms who had met a complete stranger on the plane. And somehow Smartsheet came up that she was going you got Oh, my gosh, Smartsheet. >>This is like she was going. This is the best kept secret. We're using it with all of our clients. We heard about it through one of our clients That wasn't one of them. We'll use it like Oh, my gosh, this is the game changer. I'm like putting my here in between the wayward I put my hand in as it did You just say smart shape. Literally six people on the airplane, random people like, Oh, my gosh, we use it to. It was the >>most surreal experience, and that was when I knew, like, Okay, I've got to be a part of this Coast special. Did a lot of people are now just getting that sensation of what this thing is capable of. >>And, well, it's funny to your personal achievement story. Reminds me of any time you know you got a new software company and whether you know, center Deloitte or even why, when those guys come in, they're making a big bet right there. Some new partner's gonna bet. Bet their career on this new technology. We've heard from a number of people how betting their career internally with smartsheet has changed their position in the company. Yes, we find that today a couple of times so clearly you know it. It is an enablement platform for someone to, you know, grab on to the to the rocket ship and ride this Marchi wave thio new and bigger, better things, >>but but also her point about just even just participating in the technology. And then they're able to, as you said, work on more strategic work, be able to do more things in their jobs that have been catapulted them to new job. So it's not even necessarily betting on smartsheet and bringing in smart cheat. But it is just just using smart sheet and then therefore they have more brain time. Yes, yes, oh, engagement we're talking about, >>right, right? You know, it is because we've been talking a lot about you know, some of the really scary statistics about how disengaged people are at work and how many people are ready to quit their job. And, you know, they've got all these blocks. Is menial roadblocks in their day to day existence that are that are negatively impacting their ability to want to do their job or but actually just want to be there anymore. And so it's It's like it seems, maybe to the outside, looking in some of these things by seem low value, but they're actually tremendous value if you're removing these roadblocks so I could get my job done >>totally and love your job, you love >>your job. But know that the work that you do matters and I think so many people have lost that feeling like there's something about working and I don't know if it's the corporate world, but it has become such a grind and that rare opportunity. We feel like I love what I do, and I know that it matters like it's a gift and this is a platform that enables bad in people. And so I think that's when the fascinating things I've been spending a lot of time on the road with customers and I was at a very big multi national, big global agricultural company. And, um, Singer, Actually, I'm watching WAY Bet with probably 200 different Just what I would call power users across seven different you know, roll types like from I t toe hsc thio, you name it. And, um, every single one of them is like art. We're doing more like we are empowered, like the engagement, the employee engagement in that company, through the roof because every single person felt like were hurt. I have ownership, you know. I'm doing work. I'm taking it to a new level. And so you know, sure, there is a Thanh of operational efficiencies that are gonna come out of working with smart shape, But I think the one to watch is what's gonna happen when your workforce is truly engaged and taking ownership of the work. >>Those were the good. Those are the companies that are >>going to have a higher retention they're gonna have >>They're going to see >>something in that in that talent area. So this is more than just We're getting more work done and return on investment of our our our systems like you're going to see you know, what happens when your when your employees are empowered. >>Well, the word you didn't use his innovation that I firmly believe everyone wants more innovation, their company. >>But how do you do >>it? One of those? I think it's really simple. Lever on that is you just get more people more access to more data and then the ability to do something about it and open it up to all the smart people that see problem to different prisons in different opportunities. And that's where you start to get in. A leverage is amazing talent that you already have inside your four walls. >>But what is interesting about >>innovation is I think sometimes the world so over rotates that innovation is gonna be that next killer line of code, or it's going to be and they forget that the power of practical innovation like it's that Siri's of small collected things at out up, allowing your entire, you know, employee population to feel like they have the power to innovate us. That every person in the company has the power because the power practical innovation can lead to something Justus biggest the big already >>Dev Ops has shown that that's a better way anyway, right in software development, with the grand idea with the market development plan and the product development plan in the three year build cycle that's does not win against constant religious narrative improvement. Improvement, improvement, improvement, improvement. Yes, >>indeed. So you and you said this earlier and I saw it on your Lincoln to the last mile of digital transformation is cultural transformation. Yes. How do you describe the culture at smart shape now that we've done talked about the evangelical customers Yeah, about with in smartsheet itself, it's, um it's pretty >>special. Know what you're gonna say? Of course. And see if I was >>gonna say special. But it is. It is rare >>when people everyone comes to work with this belief like this true belief that they are. They have the power to influence something and touch something that's going to do something great for other people. And I think that's what is the most special is they? They're not just doing it for themselves. They know they're doing it for others, like they know they love these guys. Every single person in the company loves that customer like the love ability, They love the customer and they feel like they've got to do their best work. So their customer, I can do something great >>with it. You know, they really understand that. >>And that's Ah, it's an incredible place to wanna work when you, when you feel that way but toe love your customers. I think that's why our customers love us back and to be loved. You must first love >>and because they love you know, it's it's rare. Well, congratulations. It sounds like it's a great role and you're in the right place. And I can't talk to you next year and hear more about can do and and all of the wonderful things you're doing. Thank you. Thank you, guys. I'm Rebecca Knight. That wraps up the cubes. Interviews. Stay tuned for our rap of engaged 2019 you're watching the Cube

>> Narrator: Live from the Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Magento Imagine 2018. Brought to you by Magento. >> Hey welcome back to theCUBE, our live coverage of Magento Imagine 2018. This is an awesome event, 3,000 attendees. I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier, we're going to be here all day. We're really stoked to have our next guest Melissa Ben-Ishay who is the Chief Product Officer and President of Baked by Melissa. Cupcakes, I love them. Melissa, your drive and your passion during your keynote was electric. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, thank you so much for having me. So you have this awesome story that I think is going to inspire many, many, many more people than it probably already has. You were fired from a job about 10 years ago and it was the best thing ever because it led to the genesis of not only Baked by Melissa, but you following your passion and living your dreams. Tell us a little bit about that and how you turned this idea into a business and are using technology to reach hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. >> Sure, so I mean nobody wants to be fired and it definitely sucked when it happened, but I wasn't passionate about the work I was doing and that's ultimately why I was fired. I was not good at the job. And if I wasn't I would have never had the opportunity to start a company like Baked by Melissa and be so passionate about what I do everyday. So, I took that crappy day, I went home, I baked four batches of cupcakes, sent them into work with my best friend's little sister. An owner of a PR firm loved them, put me in touch with her caterer who brought me in for a tasting and I started doing events as Melissa of Baked by Melissa with this high-end caterer in Manhattan less than a week after I was fired from my job and what I've learned is that it's a certain attitude and mindset. It's not rocket science. If you see every challenge as an opportunity and you surround yourself with people who have skills that you don't and you work your butt off, then you can truly do anything. And the Baked by Melissa story, is just the perfect example of that. >> What about the founder's story, you really had to hustle you can tell by the keynote, being a founder myself, I know there's a rollercoaster of emotions. >> Lisa: Sure. >> But you kind of really got to get the nose to the grindstone, hit the pavement. Tell about the key moments in the founding because you really had to hustle it. >> Lisa: Yeah. >> I think that's really the key. >> Sure it is, and I knew that I had the opportunity to do what I love every day, so I was obsessed with cupcakes while I was working in advertising I would eat like two giant cupcakes a day because they were my favorite food. And I baked cupcakes, I baked my tie-dye cupcakes for everyone and anyone, if it was your birthday and I loved you, I baked you tie-dye cupcakes. It was a hobby. So, when I met this caterer for a tasting, I saw it as a great opportunity. One that would allow me to, potentially, do what I love every single day and I knew in my head like I remember like talking to myself, "Melissa, you have the chance to do what you love every day, you need to everything you possibly can to achieve this goal, because you cannot live a life of could have, would have, should have." >> John: What was the >> And that's me today. >> Melissa, what was the moment when you said, "Damn, I could do this, this is a business"? Was it, what was that moment? Talk about that moment. >> So we founded the company about 10 years ago. I'm just starting to feel like "Damn, I can do this." like we are in such a good place right now. We have such an unbelievable team of like-minded, hard-working, passionate people who get stuff done. And we can do anything. And we built this team and this foundation and just wait to see what's next. We're great. >> I love it. >> But it took a long time to really get that confidence. And by surrounding myself with people who love me and support me, they gave me confidence I needed when I didn't have it myself. >> So, 10 years later, nearly, you have 14 stores. You are available on your website, on Amazon, you're enabling people all over, at least the country, for sure to buy these cupcakes. I'm going to place an order later today, because I'm already, I love cupcakes too. >> Melissa: Thank you. >> So, tell us about, from a commerce standpoint, we're at Magento Imagine 2018. You guys have been using Magento for a few years now. How is this enabling you to reach, how did it, we'll say allow you to kind of connect your retail shops in the New York area with the greater country and those of us, you know, on the West Coast that can >> Sure. >> Now buy your products. >> We've really focused on our multi-channel distribution, and I think it's a great opportunity to touch multiple people at different points. Our goal is to keep the messaging very consistent, whether you walk into one of our retail locations and make a purchase over the counter or go to BakedbyMelissa.com and order it for shipping or even just interact with our social media pages. The consistency in messaging and brand is our top most priority. And then, you know, we have, we do, we have an unbelievable product. We have this great brand that I happen to be the face of and I love to represent. So we have this like winning kind of equation for a platform like Magento and just all the opportunity we have today, technologically to reach more people. And that's what's so exciting. As I'm walking around this area and seeing all of these new technologies and solutions and ways to get our messaging to more people, it's just so exciting. And my wheels are spinning, it's like, okay so now how can I use this new ability to do this to achieve our goal of selling 100 million in cupcakes in 2020? >> I mean the big question always is, is like the tech used to be really complicated now it's got to be easier. You don't want to spend your time thinking about what tech you got to buy. Really, I mean, >> Melissa: Sure it's again, >> You've been successful just by killing it on the product side. >> Totally and I thank God I have an unbelievable team of people and like my tech team are the people who oversee, the person who oversees our website is absolutely amazing. She is the definition of get shit done and always learning and I've learned through her at this conference. So, you know, putting people in the positions who are the best people for those roles so they can focus on their strengths and then I can, in turn, focus on my strengths. >> John: Yeah. >> And you know being somewhere like here allows me to think big picture about our technologies and Magento and what we can do more. >> Look, take a minute to talk about how many stores you have, where the locations are, the website, how people get in touch with you, locations. You say you ship around the country, just give a quick plug on what's going on with the site, the locations. >> Sure, well we have 14 retail location. We offer free pick up and free delivery in Manhattan at our store locations. We ship our product nationwide, a big chunk of our business is e-com and we're focusing on growing that business because it is a great opportunity to reach people where we don't have brick and mortar an we're going to continue to expand our retail footprint in the next year and a half. So, we're, it's very exciting. >> How do you ship cupcakes? I always, I just drive back from the store and my kids complain, "Dad, you shouldn't put them in the backseat" you know, "they tilted" or I mean, is there a packaging thing? I mean >> Melissa: Yeah, of course. >> We're very solution oriented and innovative at Baked by Melissa, we actually started started shipping our products in April of 2010, so at the time, we only had two retail locations >> John: Yeah. >> and we were shipping our product nationwide. What we did is we designed a, like a package, that keeps the product perfectly fresh >> John: Nice. >> and perfectly safe in transit and it allows us to get the same quality of product if not even better to people all across the country. >> So talk to us about social media. I was telling you over the weekend, I, when I found out I was going to talk to someone who makes cupcakes, I love cupcakes so much, I was so excited, I tweeted you and then on Instagram probably half an hour later saw some information from you guys. Talk to us, not only about how you're using social media to reach so many more people, but also the Side with Love Project and how that is taking storm in social media. >> So, Side with Love is a very, very special opportunity for us where we were touched by something our President said that wasn't positive and it did not represent who we are as a company and we, you know, kind of saw it as, you know, we needed to do something about it, I guess is the best way to say it, we weren't okay with what was happening and we decided that we wanted to do something to inspire people to do random acts of kindness for people. So we said, you know what, we're going to give away 150 thousand cupcakes, we're going to side with love and we're going to inspire people to send 25 cupcakes for free anywhere in the country to anyone they want completely on us. So, we did that, we partnered with Something Digital whose amazing and they were geniuses and said, "You should probably put a queue on your website so it doesn't crash, we did that, we had 60,000 people in line to purchase these cupcakes and it's who we are, Right? We saw something happening in the world and we responded. And we, we, we made life sweeter for a lot of people. And that's what we do in everything, we saw a challenge and we made it an opportunity to just show people who we are and show them that no matter what's happening in the White House or in the world, you are you, and you're responsible for who you are and you can do whatever you want. >> What's the one thing, or two things that you can talk about as in an entrepreneur journey that surprised you that you were like, "Wow, that really happened, we overcame it." There's always those moments that you have to break through glass or really fight hard or really overcome adversity? >> Yeah, absolutely, so I would say that the biggest thing I've learned is emotional control, and how important it is not to communicate when you're feeling emotional and when you have a crappy day, it's not the end of the world, you're going to wake up the following day and the sun will shine, like God willing, so far, so good. So, I had a lot of moments where I felt like the world was going to end and I was so upset I was in business with my family. Like, it wasn't easy, but I woke up the next day and I always had these conversations with my dad where he kind of enforced how important like pressure makes a diamond a diamond, right? So, having a lot of those experiences definitely gave me the strength that I have today to know that it's never the end of the world. That it's those challenging situations that make you who you are. They make you stronger and I also learned that it's not rocket science. It's a basic attitude towards life that helps you succeed in anything you do. Whether it's business or raising a family or whatever your goals are, be positive, see every challenge as an opportunity. Surround yourself with people who support you. Quality not quantity. The world is your oyster and you can do anything if you're willing to work at it. >> I hear a book deal coming. (laughing) >> So inspiring. So, >> Thank you. >> You mentioned a really big lofty goal. Can you repeat that again with the number? >> Our goal is to sell 100 million cupcakes in 2020. >> In 20, by 2020. So here we are 2018 in April, you're 14 stores. People can buy it through your website, through Amazon, your engaging through social media. You have this huge goal that is around the corner. What are you going to be doing the rest of the year, and this year to be setting the business up to achieve that? >> Well everything that we do, we go back to the is that in line with selling 100 million cupcakes in 2020, and that's kind of how we choose because focus is essential as you grow a company there are so many opportunities. How do you decide to focus on? Is that going to help us >> John: Yeah. >> to get to 100 million cupcakes? We're focusing on growing our e-commerce business and it's growing, and it's very exciting. We're focusing on our multi-channel distribution and making sure the brand is consistent and we're opening additional retail locations. That does affect our e-com. We're going to open in new markets and we're going to reach new people who have never heard of us before, and we're going to get there. >> John: Melissa, I'm so impressed with you. Thanks for coming on, but I want to ask you the brand question because you're the Chief Product Officer, you got to come up with the new ideas and you got to stay fresh >> Melissa: Sure. you know with the brand. You got great loyalty. As you look out, as the trends go by, never fight fashion, right, you're a great mission based company, great values. As you look at the next, you know, trends, what's going on in the cupcake world, I mean, what do you look for? I mean, you must worry, you don't want to be out dated, you don't want to be yesterday's old, long in the tooth, as they say, but you want to be fresh. You got the fresh cupcakes. What's the, what's the trend in the cupcake world? What are you seeing? >> I don't know. How's that for you? I really don't like to focus on trends. We're not a trend and I think we didn't get to where we are by trying to compare ourselves to others, that's who I am, right? And I am Melissa, so I know that it's my job to bring you the most delicious product. We have a variety of flavors that are always changing. Everything is hand-made by people who love the product as much as I do, who I trained. >> John: So you're making the trends. >> Yeah, and you know what, I'm just staying true >> John: You got to come up with the new ideas. >> To who we are. Oh, and I always am, that's what I love to do. That's what got us here in the first place. >> Alright, craziest cupcake you made? >> So we're Kosher Certified and I did make a bacon cupcake and it wasn't good and it didn't have bacon in it, but whatever, (laughter) I guess that was the craziest one. >> Awesome. >> Awesome, well trendsetter, definitely. You're very inspiring. >> Thank you. We want to thank you so much for taking time to stop by and share with us what you're doing and how you're leveraging e-commerce technology to do it. But also this passion and setting trends. Melissa Ben-Ishay we want to thank you for joining us. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> And for John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE Live at Magento Imagine 2018. We're in Vegas, stick around John and I will be right back with our next guest after a short break. (tech music)

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCube. Covering Grace Hopper's Celebration of Women In Computing. Brought to you by, SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back to theCube's coverage of the Grace Hopper conference here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We are joined by Raji Arasu, she is the CTO of Development at Intuit. And also, by Marianna Tessel. She is the Chief Product Officer at Intuit. So thank you both for joining us. >> I think you got the title wrong. >> Oh no! (laughter) Please correct me! >> It's SVP. >> SVP. >> SVP of our organization is called CTO Dev, and I manage the platform and infrastructure services for our... >> Great. >> So now we've got that under control. >> Wonderful. >> So tell a little bit about your background. We'll start with you Raji, how you got into this business. >> I have been about 27 years in the consumer and retail space. And a ton of background on ecommerce and payments. This actually my first job sort of focusing on platform and core services for the company. A huge responsibility, my job is not just to provide and you know, delightful services for both my internal and external customers. But to really make sure that we are really thinking about the future and the capabilities that we're building for the future. So, super excited about my role at Intuit. >> How about you, Marianna? >> First of all, thanks for having me here. >> Yes. >> And I have to confess, this is my first time at the Grace Hopper Conference. >> That's wonderful! That's, that's great! >> And I'm completely blown away from the wonderful people here and the representation and the energy. So, I'm now a fan. So, anyway, just wanted to say that. You know, my background has always been engineering, I've done multiple engineering roles. I actually, before this, I spent a lot of time in systems and infrastructure and I really get a kick right now out of using some of the products I built. And actually using them in other products. And seeing how customers are using it. So, that's an interesting kind of journey, and interesting to see kind of full picture, of kind of the industry. >> Both of you, and we are here at Grace Hopper, which is the celebration of women in computing. And both of you are passionate about creating a more inclusive engineering culture. Can you talk about why, why this is a passion project of yours. And then also, what you're doing to make, to help that happen. Raji? >> I think, I mean, Grace Hopper. This is my seventh year in the conference and I love it. >> So you're a veteran. She's a virgin, you're a veteran. >> I'm definitely a veteran, absolutely. (laughter) >> And I think it's such a joy because it not only, I have started to recognize some familiar faces. It's a fantastic opportunity for us to network, with women in technology, and talk about actually, what's cool, is not just the issue around fixing the numbers, but actually, we talk about capabilities and building, you know, what's really important for our craft. And so I'm actually excited about that. The more and more I see, you know we have about 112 people attending from Intuit. And you know, a ton of men as well, participating in that but a lot of people are going to be talking about things that are very core to us. Like, data engineering, data science, architecture, services-oriented journey, and all of that which is awesome. Because I think, that's what people want to hear, the work that we do. And they want to understand, what it would be like to work at Intuit. So, there's a ton of opportunity for companies and for individuals who work there to really show what they do everyday. And really connect in a very authentic way. And show off their work. More than actually be, you know, really talking about the Uber problem that many of us do care about that as well. But I see, down here, especially where we are sitting, everybody's connecting on where they work, what is the work that I'm going to do, or what is the stuff that actually interests me. Which I think is pretty cool. >> During the keynote, Melinda Gates had a very quotable quote and she said, "Not every idea is wrapped in a hoodie," not every good idea is wrapped in a hoodie. And this is really bemoaning the brogrammer culture. Is that message getting through, do you think, to young women? In the sense of, this is not all the sea of white dudes. >> You know, I, I think it is but there's still like work to do. Both for like, women that enter the field, as well as women that been here for, for awhile. And, you know, there's still plenty of opportunity. So, you know, the culture is definitely, at least, I'll have to tell you that, again, being a bit in the industry now, and gaining a bit of a perspective, just the fact that it's being talked about and the fact that there's more energy towards solving it is already, you know, a great win. And, you know, to your question before, if I can jump on that as well. >> Knight: Yes! Absolutely. >> You know, this whole idea of diversity in the work place, there is nothing, I don't know if there's much to say there beyond what's already said about how it's good for businesses, how the customers at many of the of, I know definitely for us, in the small businesses, a lot of our customers are diverse. And we want to have diverse people build product for our customers, right? You know, so all of these are true, it makes sense for the business. But now I can tell you from my own lens, and my own kind of perspective and experience, you know, women are just awesome. And they make like, outstanding engineers, outstanding leaders, and every time I have a group of, you know, that has all sorts of people, again all kinds of diversity it's just a stronger group. So, some of it, you know, I love to have a diverse team selfishly, because it's an awesome team and that's kind of what I think we should all be pursuing. Just, be awesome, not just diverse. >> So you're passionate about getting more women into this industry, keeping them, retaining them in the industry. But, tell me a little bit about the tech. I mean, because that is, that was obviously your first love and that's why you do what you do. So tell me about what you're working on that's really exciting to you at Intuit. >> I think, you know, as I look at my past, one of the things that always excited me is to work on complex stuff that actually makes a difference in the world. And it started fairly early on in my career where I started to, when I worked at eBay it was about actually connecting to our customers and sellers and having that sort of a social impact. Moving on to StubHub it was a lot about actually entertainment and how do you really get people to the game and that perfect evening they were looking for. And then moving on to Intuit, it's about making that financial freedom possible for many of our customers. And I think when I look at that, for Intuit, there's a huge opportunity. Which we are actively working on is, to start looking at our data and be able to create some delightful customer experiences for our people. And to, to really give them more time and more money at the end of the day. And I think, and that sort of confidence in our own products, about the decisions we make for them and the expertise that we provide, and so as part of that, a lot of that can only come alive with technology. So, when we start to look at that, you know, there's a huge focus within the company on building great tools for developers so they can move faster. There's a huge focus on trying to do AI and machine learning on our data and looking at what we can do to personalize our experiences for our customers and reduce friction in the flow. There's a ton of work that's being done there. And I also think that we, we're very excited about our journey to the cloud. And having gone through the whole services-oriented architecture, re-architecture that we are being embarked on for many years. So, I think really, really there's a ton of good work that's happening inside with all towards the focus of servicing the customer. So there's a ton of conversations that we have around customer empathy. And then all of the technology towards making the lives of our customers better from a financial perspective. >> And giving them back time and money as you said, yes. Yes, absolutely. >> If I can add, to that, like our mission as a company is to power prosperity around the world and you know, and that's like a great mission. But, as Raji was saying, it's even awesome when you get to connect technology to a mission that is really inspiring like this. >> Knight: Yes. >> And is really something we put in practice. You know, I'll talk specifically in one of my products, Quick Books Online, QBO. You know, we have, a lot of the problems that, a lot of the challenges, we shouldn't call them problems. Challenges that many of the SAS companies are facing in terms of scale, in terms of velocity, how are we doing DEV ops in the most modern way? What's our CICD pipeline look like? How do we use, we have all this great data, how do we use the right data? Because, obviously we want to respect privacy. How do we use the right data to giving even more value to our, getting more value to our customers? How do we apply machine learning and AI? And, you know et cetera, to make it even more interesting because we have some touch with financial data. There's a lot of view on security and what we do there. So, lots of problems to solve that are deep technical problems. Lots of modern technology. Some that other, that you know, we have to look at but you know, really interesting set of challenges. From all the way to, in close to the infrastructure, all the way to the UI and some really cool things that we're doing there. >> I think that's a really great point, and the fact that, you know, as you're women technologists so you face issues of biases and sexism in the industry. But as technologists, as human technologists, you face questions about, am I looking at the right data, is this data secure, am I doing enough around privacy? Do you think that this conference does enough to acknowledge both sides of this coin in the sense that you are technical leaders in your field and you are here, at a tech conference, but then you're also here to rally around this issue of getting more women and retaining more women in the industry? What do you think? >> I think, I think that I am in this, in these booths here, I sense it. I sense that we're talking about the real problems around technology. The conversations around the specialties that are required in data science or maybe architecture, maybe engineering. I mean any parts of that, we do have those conversations. I think at the keynotes and maybe at the higher level, it's a lot more about developing women and addressing the problem and probably building leadership. So, there's probably two flavors that you find in this conference. Which I think cater to different sets of women and some about staying in the field and not sort of, you know, dealing with the problems that we have. So I think it does. But I think it'd be awesome to have a panel where we have very different points of view on a technology, and having a really good debate about that. Which would be really cool I think, if we had something like that. I don't know if it's in our curriculum. I'm definitely not aware of everything in our curriculum but it would be cool to have a panel like that. >> I want to wrap up here but I want to ask, what is your best advice for aspiring women in this field? And it could be someone who is just starting her computer science journey in college, or it could be someone who maybe is feeling as though, do I stay in this field, I don't know if this is for me. What would you say to that young woman? >> You know, again, maybe something that she heard before, but I would say, you know, go for it, stick with it, be ready to fall down. And come back up and be ready, be open-minded, know that you can learn anything. And, you know, but stick with it. >> Just stay, stick with it. (laughter) >> Yes, through hard and through easy. >> I love that. I mean, I want to definitely second Marianna saying don't be afraid of failures. Take it on, and use that as an opportunity to convert that into success in the next opportunity that you have. I think the part that I would also say, is protect being a leader in tech and staying true to it. You got to have a learning mindset. Every single day you come in, you got to learn new skills, you have to open to change, and constant change. And if you learn, and every one of us has different ways to learn. You know, some of us learn through conversation, some of us learn through reading papers, whatever that might be. But if you do that, you will stay as a credible and relevant leader for the longer run. >> Knight: The growth mindset. >> Absolutely. >> Well Raji, Marianna, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a lot of fun. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having us. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, here at the Grace Hopper Conference, we will have more, just after this. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Munich, Germany it's the CUBE, covering Dataworks Summit Europe 2017. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Okay, welcome back everyone here at day two coverage of the CUBE here in Munich, Germany for Dataworks 2017. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vellante. Two days of wall to wall coverage SiliconANGLE Media's the CUBE. Our next guest is Raj Verma, the president and COO of Hortonworks. First time on the CUBE, new to Hortonworks. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you very much, John, appreciate it. >> Looking good with a three piece suit we were commenting when you were on stage. >> Raj: Thank you. >> Great scene here in Europe, again different show vis-a-vis North America, in San Jose. You got the show coming up there, it's the big show. Here, it's a little bit different. A lot of IOT in Germany. You got a lot of car manufacturers, but industrial nation here, smart city initiatives, a lot of big data. >> Uh-huh. >> What's your thoughts? >> Yeah no, firstly thanks for having me here. It's a pleasure and good chit chatting right before the show as well. We are very, very excited about the entire data space. Europe is leading many initiatives about how to use data as a sustainable, competitive differentiator. I just moderated a panel and you guys heard me talk to a retail bank, a retailer. And really, Centrica, which was nothing but British Gas, which is rather an organization steeped in history so as to speak and that institution is now, calls itself a technology company. And, it's a technology company or an IOT company based on them using data as the currency for innovation. So now, British Gas, or Centrica calls itself a data company, when would you have ever thought that? I was at dinner with a very large automotive manufacturers and the kind of stuff they are doing with data right from the driving habits, driver safety, real time insurance premium calculation, the autonomous drive. It's just fascinating no matter what industry you talk about. It's just very, very interesting. And, we are very glad to be here. International business is a big priority for me. >> We've been following Hortonworks since it's inception when it spun out of Yahoo years ago. I think we've been to every Hadoop World going back, except for the first one. We watched the transition. It's interesting, it's always been a learning environment at these shows. And certainly the customer testimonials speaks to the ecosystem, but I have to ask you, you're new to Hortonworks. You have interesting technology background. Why did you join Hortonworks? Because you certainly see the movies before and the cycles of innovation, but now we're living in a pretty epic, machine learning, data AI is on the horizon. What were the reasons why you joined Hortonworks? >> Yeah sure, I've had a really good run in technology, fortunately was associated with two great companies, Parametric Technology and TIBCO Software. I was 16 years at TIBCO, so I've been dealing with data for 16 years. But, over the course of the last couple of years whenever I spoke to a C level executive, or a CIO they were talking to us about the fact that structured data, which is really what we did for 16 years, was not good enough for innovation. Innovation and insights into unstructured data was the seminal challenge of most of the executives that I was talking to, senior level executives. And, when you're talking about unstructured data and making sense of it there isn't a better technology than the one that we are dealing with right now, undoubtedly. So, that was one. Dealing with data because data is really the currency of our times. Every company is a data company. Second was, I've been involved with proprietary software for 23 years. And, if there is a business model that's ready for disruption it's the proprietary software business model because I'm absolutely convinced that open source is what I call a green business model. It's good for planet Earth so as to speak. It's a community based, it's based on innovation and it puts the customer and the technology provider on the same page. The customer success drives the vendor success. Yeah, so the open source community, data-- >> It's sustainables, pun intended, in the sense that it's had a continuing run. And, it's interesting Tier One software is all open source now. >> 100%, and by the way not only that if you see large companies like IBM and Microsoft they have finally woken up to the fact that if they need to attract talent and if they want to be known as talk leaders they have to have some very meaningful open source initiatives. Microsoft loves Linux, when did we ever think that was going to happen, right? And, by the way-- >> I think Steve Bauman once said it was the cancer of the industry. Now, they're behind it. But, this is the Linux foundation has also grown. We saw a project this past week. Intel donated a big project to the Linux now it's taking over, so more projects. >> Raj: Yes. >> There's more action happening than ever before. >> You know absolutely, John. Five years ago when I would go an meet a CIO and I would ask them about open source and they would wink, they say "Of course, "we do open source. But, it's less than 5%, right? Now, when I talk to a CIO they first ask their teams to go evaluated open source as the first choice. And, if they can't they come kicking and screaming towards propriety software. Most organizations, and some organizations with a lot of historical gravity so as to speak have a 50/50 even split between proprietary and open source. And, that's happened in the last three years. And, I can make a bold statement, and I know it'll be true, but in the next three years most organizations the ratio of proprietary to open source would be 20 proprietary 80 open source. >> So, obviously you've made that bet on open source, joining Hortonworks, but open is a spectrum. And, on one end of the spectrum you have Hortonworks which is, as I see it, the purest. Now, even Larry Ellison, when he gets onstage at Oracle Open World will talk about how open Oracle is, I guess that's the other end of the spectrum. So, my question is won't the Microsofts and the Oracles and the IBM, they're like recovering alcoholics and they'll accommodate their platforms through open source, embracing open source. We'll see if AWS is the same, we know it's unidirectional there. How do you see that-- >> Well, not necessarily. >> Industry dynamic, we'll talk about that later. How do you see that industry dynamic shaking out? >> No, absolutely, I think I remember way back in I think the mid to late 90s I still loved that quote by Scott McNeely, who is a friend, Dell, not Dell, Digital came out with a marketing campaign saying open VMS. And, Scott said, "How can someone lie "so much with one word?" (laughs) So, it's the fact that Oracle calling itself open, well I'll just leave it at, it's a good joke. I think the definition of open source, to me, is when you acquire a software you have three real costs. One is the cost of initial procuring that software and the hardware and all the rest of it. The second is implementation and maintenance. However, most people miss the third dimension of cost when acquiring software, which is the cost to exit the technology. Our software and open source has very low exit barriers to our technology. If you don't like our technology, switch it off. You own the software anyways. Switch off our services and the barrier of exits are very, very low. Having worked in proprietary software, as I said, for 23 years I very often had conversations with my customers where I would say, "Look, you really "don't have a choice, because if you want to exit "our technology it's going to probably cost you "ten times more than what you've spent till date." So, it a lock in architecture and then you milk that customer through maintenance, correct? >> Switching costs really are the metric-- >> Raj: Switching costs, exactly. >> You gave the example of Blockbuster Camera, and the rental, the late charge fees. Okay, that's an example of lock in. So, as we look at the company you're most compared with, now that's it's going public, Cloudera, in a way I see more similarities than differences. I mean, you guys are sort of both birds of a feather. But, you are going for what I call the long game with a volume subscription model. And, Cloudera has chosen to build proprietary components on top. So, you have to make big bets on open. You have to support those open technologies. How do you see that affecting the long term distance model? >> Yeah, I think we are committed to open source. There's absolutely no doubt about it. I do feel that we are connected data platform, which is data at rest and data in motion across on prem and cloud is the business model the going to win. We clearly have momentum on our side. You've seen the same filings that I have seen. You're talking about a company that had a three year head start on us, and a billion dollars of funding, all right, at very high valuations. And yet, they're only one year ahead in terms of revenue. And, they have burnt probably three times more cash than we have. So clearly, and it's not my opinion, if you look at the numbers purely, the numbers actually give us the credibility that our business model and what we are doing is more efficient and is working better. One of the arguments that I often hear from analysts and press is how are your margins on open source? According to the filings, again, their margins are 82% on proprietary software, my margins on open source are 84%. So, from a health of the business perspective we are better. Now, the other is they've claimed to have been making a pivot to more machine learning and deep learning and all the rest of it. And, they actually'd like us to believe that their competition is going to be Amazon, IBM, and Google. Now, with a billion dollars of funding with the Intel ecosystem behind them they could effectively compete again Hortonworks. What do you think are their chances of competing against Google, Amazon, and IBM? I just leave that for you guys to decide, to be honest with you. And, we feel very good that they have virtually vacated the space and we've got the momentum. >> On the numbers, what jumps out at you on filing since obviously, I sure, everyone at Hortonworks was digging through the S1 because for the first time now Cloudera exposes some of the numbers. I noticed some striking things different, obviously, besides their multiple on revenue valuation. Pretty obvious it's going to be a haircut coming after the public offering. But, on the sales side, which is your wheelhouse there's a value proposition that you guys at Hortonworks, we've been watching, the cadence of getting new clients, servicing clients. With product evolution is challenging enough, but also expensive. It's not you guys, but it's getting better as Sean Connolly pointed out yesterday, you guys are looking at some profitability targets on the Ee-ba-dep coming up in Q four. Publicly stated on the earnings call. How's that different from Cloudera? Are they burning more cash because of their sales motions or sales costs, or is it the product mix? What's you thoughts on the filings around Cloudera versus the Hortonworks? >> Well, look I just feel that, I can talk more about my business than theirs. Clearly, you've seen the same filings that I have and you've see the same cash burn rates that we have seen. And, we clearly are ore efficient, although we can still get better. But, because of being public for a little more than two years now we've had a thousand watt bulb being shown at us and we have been forced to be more efficient because we were in the limelight. >> John: You're open. >> In the open, right? So, people knew what our figures are, what our efficiency ratios were. So, we've been working diligently at improving them and we've gotten better, and there's still scope for improvement. However, being private did not have the same scrutiny on Cloudera. And, some would say that they were actually spending money like drunken sailors if you really read their S1 filing. So, they will come under a lot of scrutiny as well. I'm sure they'll get more efficient. But right now, clearly, you've seen the same numbers that I have, their numbers don't talk about efficiency either in the R and D side or the sales and marketing side. So, yeah we feel very good about where we are in that space. >> And, open source is this two edged sword. Like, take Yarn for example, at least from my perspective Hortonworks really led the charge to Yarn and then well before Doctor and Kubernetes ascendancy and then all of a sudden that happens and of course you've got to embrace those open source trends. So, you have the unique challenge of having to support sort of all the open source platforms. And, so that's why I call it the long game. In order for you guys to thrive you've got to both put resources into those multiple projects and you've got to get the volume of your subscription model, which you pointed out the marginal economics are just as good as most, if not any software business. So, how do you manage that resource allocation? Yes, so I think a lot of that is the fact that we've got plenty of contributors and committers to the open source community. We are seen as the angel child in open source because we are just pure, kosher open source. We just don't have a single line of proprietary code. So, we are committed to that community. We have over the last six or seven years developed models of our software development which helps us manage the collective bargaining power, so as to speak, of the community to allocate resources and prioritize the allocation of resources. It continues to be a challenge given the breadth of the open source community and what we have to handle, but fortunately I'm blessed that we've got a very, very capable engineering organization that keeps us very efficient and on the cutting edge. >> We're here with Raj Verma, With the new president and COO of Hortonworks, Chief Operating Officer. I've got to ask you because it's interesting. You're coming in with a fresh set of eyes, coming in as you mentioned, from TIBCO, interesting, which was very successful in the generation of it's time and history of TIBCO where it came from and what it did was pretty fantastic. I mean, everyone knows connecting data together was very hard in the enterprise world. TIBCO has some challenges today, as you're seeing, with being disrupted by open source, but I got to ask you. As a perspective, new executive you got, looking at the battlefield, an opportunity with open source there's some significant things happening and what are you excited about because Hortonworks has actually done some interesting things. Some, I would say, the world spun in their direction, their relationship with Microsoft, for instance, and their growth in cloud has been fantastic. I mean, Microsoft stock price when they first started working with Hortonworks I think was like 26, and obviously with Scott Di-na-tell-a on board Azure, more open source, on Open Compute to Kubernetes and Micro Services, Azure doing very, very well. You also have a partnership with Amazon Web Services so you already are living in this cloud era, okay? And so, you have a cloud dynamic going on. Are you excited by that? You bring some partnership expertise in from TIBCO. How do you look at partners? Because, you guys don't really compete with anybody, but you're partners with everybody. So, you're kind of like Switzerland, but you're also doing a lot of partnerships. What are you excited about vis-a-vis the cloud and some of the other partnerships that are happening. >> Yeah, absolutely, I think having a robust partner ecosystem is probably my number one priority, maybe number two after being profitable in a short span of time, which is, again, publicly stated. Now, our partnership with Microsoft is very, very special to us. Being available in Azure we are seeing some fantastic growth rates coming in from Azure. We are also seeing remarkable amount of traction from the market to be able to go and test out our platform with very, very low barriers of entry and, of course, almost zero barriers of exit. So, from a partnership platform cloud providers like Amazon, Microsoft, are very, very important to us. We are also getting a lot of interest from carriers in Europe, for example. Some of the biggest carriers want to offer business services around big data and almost 100%, actually not almost, 100% of the carriers that we have spoken to thus far want to partner with us and offer our platform as a cloud service. So, cloud for us is a big initiative. It gives us the entire capability to reach audiences that we might not be able to reach ringing one door bell at a time. So, it's, as I said, we've got a very robust, integrated cloud strategy. Our customers find that very, very interesting. And, building that with a very robust partner channel, high priority for us. Second, is using our platform as a development platform for application on big data is, again, a priority. And that's, again, building a partner ecosystem. The third is relationships with global SIs, Extensia, Deloitte, KPMG. The Indian SIs of In-flu-ces, and Rip-ro, and HCL and the rest. We have some work to do. We've done some good work there, but there's some work to be done there. And, not only that I think some of the initiatives that we are launching in terms of training as a service, free certification, they are all things which are aimed at reaching out to the partners and building, as I said, a robust partner ecosystem. >> There's a lot of talk a conferences like this about, especially in Hadoop, about complexity, complexity of the ecosystem, new projects, and the difficulties of understanding that. But, in reality it seems as though today anyway the technology's pretty well understood. We talked about Millennials off camera coming out today with social savvy and tooling and understanding gaming and things like that. Technology, getting it to work seems to not be the challenge anymore. It's really understanding how to apply it, how to value data, we heard in your panel today. The business process, which used to be very well known, it's counting, it's payroll, simple. Now, it's kind of ever changing daily. What do you make of that? How do you think that will effect the future of work? Yeah, I think there's some very interesting questions that you've asked in that the first, of course, is what does it take to have a very successful big data, or Hadoop project. And, I think we always talk about the fact that if you have a very robust business case backing a Hadoop project that is the number one key ingredient to delivering a Hadoop project. Otherwise, you can tend to boil the ocean, all right, or try and eat an elephant in one bite as I like to say. So, that's one and I think you're right. It's not the technology, it's not the complexity, it's not the availability of the resources. It is a leadership issue in organizations where the leader demands certain outcomes, business outcomes from the Hadoop project team and we've seen whenever that happens the projects seem to be very, very successful. Now, the second part of the question about future of work, which is a very, very interesting topic and a topic which is very, very close to my heart. There are going to be more people than jobs in the next 20, 25 years. I think that any job that can be automated will be automated, or has been automated, right? So, this is going to have a societal impact on how we live. I've been lucky enough that I joined this industry 25 years ago and I've never had to change or switch industries. But, I can assure you that our kids, and we were talking about kids off camera as well, our kids will have to probably learn a new skill every five years. So, how does that impact education? We, in our generation, were testing champions. We were educated to score well on tests. But, the new form of education, which you and I were talking about, again in California where we live, and where my daughter goes to high school and in her school the number one, the number one priority is to instill a sense of learning and joy of learning in students because that is what is going to contribute to a robust future. >> That's a good point, I want to just interject here because I think that the trend we're seeing in the higher Ed side too also point to the impact of data science, to curriculum and learning. It's not just putting catalogs online. There's now kind of an iterative kind of non-linear discovery to proficiency. But, there's also the emotional quotient aspect. You mentioned the love of learning. The immersion of tech and digital is creating an interdisciplinary requirement. So, all the folks say that, what the statistic's like half the jobs that are going to be available haven't even been figured out yet. There's a value creation around interdisciplinary skill sets and emotional quotient. >> Absolutely. >> Social, emotional because of the human social community connectedness. This is also a big data challenge opportunity. >> Oh, 100% and I think one of the things that we believe is in the future, jobs that require a greater amount of empathy are least susceptible to automation. So, things like caring for old age people in the world, and nursing, and teaching, and artists, and all the rest will be professions which will be highly paid and numerous. I also believe that the entire big data challenge about how you use data to impact communities is going to come into play. And also, I think John, you and I were again talking about it, the entire concept of corporations is only 200 years old, really, 200, 300 years old. Before that, our forefathers were individual contributors who contributed a certain part in a community, barbers, tailors, farmers, what have you. We are going to go back to the future where all of us will go back to being individual contributors. And, I think, and again I'm bringing it back to open source, open source is the start of that community which will allow the community to go back to its roots of being individual contributors rather than being part of a organization or a corporation to be successful and to contribute. >> Yeah, the Coase's Penguin has been a very famous seminal piece of work. Obviously, Ronald Coase who's wrote the book The Nature of the Firm is interesting, but that's been a kind of historical document. You look at blockchain for instance. Blockchain actually has the opportunity to disrupt what the Nature of the Firm is about because of smart contracts, supply chain, and what not. And, we have this debate on the CUBE all the time, there's some naysayers, Tim Conner's a VC and I were talking on our Friday show, Silicon Valley Friday show. He's actually a naysayer on blockchain. I'm actually pro blockchain because I think there's some skeptics that say blockchain is really hard to because it requires an ecosystem. However, we're living in an ecosystem, a world of community. So, I think The Nature of the Firm will be disrupted by people organizing in a new way vis-a-vis blockchain 'cause that's an open source paradigm. >> Yeah, no I concur. So, I'm a believer in that entire concept. I 100%-- >> I want to come back to something you talked about, about individual contributors and the relationship in link to open source and collaboration. I personally, I think we have to have a frank conversation about, I mean machines have always replaced humans, but for the first time in our history it's replacing cognitive functions. To your point about empathy, what are the things that humans can do that machines can't? And, they become fewer and fewer every year. And, a lot of these conferences people don't like to talk about that, but it's a reality that we have to talk about. And, your point is right on, we're going back to individual contribution, open source collaboration. The other point is data, is it going to be at the center of that innovation because it seems like value creation and maybe job creation, in the future, is going to be a result of the combinatorial effects of data, open source, collaboration, other. It's not going to because of Moore's Law, all right. >> 100%, and I think one of the aspects that we didn't touch upon is the new societal model that automation is going to create would need data driven governance. So, a data driven government is going to be a necessity because, remember, in those times, and I think in 25, 30 years countries will have to explore the impact of negative taxation, right? Because of all the automation that actually happens around citizen security, about citizen welfare, about cost of healthcare, cost of providing healthcare. All of that is going to be fueled by data, right? So, it's just, as the Chinese proverb says, "May you live in interesting times." We definitely are living in very interesting times. >> And, the public policy implications are, your friend and one of my business heroes, Scott McNeally says, "There's no privacy in "the internet, get over it." We interviewed John Tapscott last week he said "That's unacceptable, "we have to solve that problem." So, it brings up a lot of public policy issues. >> Well, the social economic impact, right now there's a trend we're seeing where the younger generation, we're talking about the post 9/11 generation that's entering the workforce, they have a social conscience, right? So, there's an emphasis you're seeing on social good. AI for social good is one of the hottest trends out there. But, the changing landscape around data is interesting. So, the word democratization has been used whether you're looking at the early days of blogging and podcasting which we were involved in and research to now in media this notion of data and transparency and open source is probably at a tipping point, an all time high in terms of value creation. So, I want to hear your thoughts on this because as someone who's been in the proprietary world the mode of operation was get something proprietary, lock it dowm, build a fence and a wall, protect it with folks with machine guns and fight for the competitive advantage, right? Now, the competitive advantage is open. Okay, so you're looking at pure open source model with Hortonworks. It changes how companies are competing. What is the competitive advantage of Hortonworks? Actually, to be more open. >> 100%. >> How do you manage that? >> No absolutely, I just think the proprietary nature of software, like software has disrupted a lot of businesses, all right? And, it's not a resistance to disruption itself. I mean, there has never been a business model in the history of time where you charge a lot of money to build a software, or sell a software that you built and then whatever are the defects in that software you get paid more money to fix them, all right? That's the entire perpetual and maintenance model. That model is going to get disrupted. Now, there are hundreds of billions of dollars involved in it so people are going to come kicking and screaming to the open source world, but they will have to come to the open source world. Our advantage that we're seeing is innovation now in a closed loop environment, no matter what size of a company you are, cannot keep up with the changing landscape around you from a data perspective. So, without the collective innovation of the community I don't really think a technology can stay at par with the changes around them. >> This is what I say about, this is what I think is such an important point that you're getting at because we were started SiliconANGLE actually in the Cloudera office, so we have a lot of friends that work there. We have a great admiration for them, but one of the things that Cloudera has done through their execution is they have been very profit oriented, go public at all costs kind of thing that they're doing now. You've seen that happen. Is the competitive advantage that you're pointing out is something we're seeing that similar that Andy Jasseys doing at AWS, which is it's not so much to build something proprietary per se, it's just to ship something faster. So, if you look at Amazon's competitive advantage is that they just continue to ship product faster and faster and faster than companies can build themselves. And also, the scale that they're getting with these economies is increasing the quality. So, open source has also hit the naysayers on security, right? Everyone said, "Oh, open source is not secure." As it turns out, it's more secure. Amazon at scale is actually becoming more secure. So, you're starting to see the new competitive advantage be ship more, be more open as the way to do business. What do you think the impact will be to traditional companies whether it's a startup competing or an existing bank? This is a paradigm shift, what's the impact going to be for a CIO or CEO of a big company? How do they incorporate that competitive advantage? Yeah, I think the proprietary software world is not going to go away tomorrow, John, you know that. There so much of installed software and there's a saying from where I come from that "Even a dead elephant is worth a million dollars," right? So, even that business model even though it is sort of dying it'll still be a good investment for the next ten years because of the locked in business model where customers cannot get out. Now, from a perspective of openness and what that brings as a competitive differentiators to our customer just the very base at which, as I've said I've lived in a proprietary world, you would be lucky if you were getting the next version of our software every 18 months, you'd be lucky. In the open source community you get a few versions in 18 months. So, the cadence at which releases come out have just completely disrupted the proprietary model. It is just the collective, as I said, innovative or innovation ability of the community has allowed us to release, to increase the release cadence to a few months now, all right? And, if our engineering team had it's way it'll further be cut short, right? So, the ability of customers, and what does that allow the customer to do? Ten years ago if you looked for a capability from your proprietary vendor they would say you have to wait 18 months. So, what do you do, you build it yourself, all right? So, that is what the spaghetti architecture was all about. In the new open source model you ask the community and if enough people in the community think that that's important the community builds it for you and gives it to you. >> And, the good news is the business model of open source is working. So, you got you guys have been public, you got Cloudera going public, you have MuleSoft out there, a lot of companies out there now that are public companies are open source companies, a phenomenal change over. But, the other thing that's interesting is that the hiring factor for the large enterprise to the point of, your point about so proprietary not updating, it's the same is true for the enterprise. So, just hiring candidates out of open source is now increased, the talent pool for a large enterprise. >> 100%, 100%. >> Well, I wonder if I could challenge this love fest for a minute. (laughs) So, there's another saying, I didn't grow up there, but a dying snake can still bite you. So, I bring that up because there is this hybrid model that's emerging because these elephants eventually they figure it out. And so, an example would be, we talked about Cloudera and so forth, but the better example, I think, is IBM. What IBM has done to embrace open source with investing years ago a billion dollars into Linux, what it's doing with Spark, essentially trying to elbow its way in and say, "Okay, "now we're going to co-opt the ecosystem. "And then, build our proprietary pieces on top of it." That, to me, that's a viable business model, is it not? >> Yes, I'm sure it is and to John's point with the Mule going IPO and with Cloudera having successfully built a $250 million, $261 million business is testimony, yeah, it's a testimony to the fact that companies can be built. Now, can they be more efficient, sure they can be more efficient. However, my entire comment on this is why are you doing open source? What is your intent of doing open source, to be seen as open, or to be truly open? Because, in our philosophy if you a add a slim layer of proprietariness, why are you doing that? And, as a businessman I'll tell you why you increase the stickiness factor by locking in your customer, right? So, let's not, again, we're having a frank conversation, proprietary code equals customer lock in, period. >> Agreed. And, as a business model-- >> I'm not sure I agree with that. >> As a business model. >> Please. (laughs) We'll come back to that. >> So, it's a customer lock in. Now, as a business model it is, if you were to go with the business models of the past, yes I believe most of the analysts will say it a stickier, better business model, but then we would like to prove them wrong. And, that's our mission as open source purely. >> I would caution though, Amazon's the mother of all lock in's. You kind of bristled at that before. >> They're not, I mean they use a lot of open source. I mean, did they open source it? Getting back to the lock in, the lock in is a function of stickiness, right? So, stickiness can be open source. Now, you could argue that Horonworks through they're relationship with partnering is a lock in spec with their stickiness of being open. Right, so I come back down to the proprietary-- >> Dave: My search engine I like Google. >> I mean Google's certainly got-- >> It's got to be locked in 'cause I like it? >> Well, there's a lot of do you care with proprietary technology that Google's built. >> Switching costs, as we talked about before. >> But, you're not paying for Si-tch >> If the value exceeds the price of the lock in then it's an opportunity. So, Palma Richie's talking about the hardened top, the hardened top. Do you care what's in an Intel processor? Well, Intel is a proprietary platform that provides processing power, but it enables a lot of other value. So, I think the stickiness factor of say IBM is interesting and they've done a lot open source stuff to defend them on Linux, for example they do a (mumbles) blockchain. But, they're priming the pump for their own business, that's clear for their lock In. >> Raj wasn't saying there's not value there. He's saying it's lock in, and it is. >> Well, some customers will pay for convenience. >> Your point is if the value exceeds the lock in risk than it's worth it. >> Yeah, that's my point, yeah. >> 1005, 100%. >> And, that's where the opportunity is. So, you can use open source to get to a value projectory. That's the barriers to entry, we seen 'em on the entrepreneurship side, right? It's easier to start a company now than ever before. Why? Because of open source and cloud, right? So, does that mean that every startup's going to be super successful and beat IBM? No, not really. >> Do you thinK there will be a red hat of big data and will you be it? >> We hope so. (laughs) If I had my that's definitely. That's really why I am here. >> Just an example, right? >> And, the one thing that excites us about this this year is as my former boss used to say you could be as good as you think you are or the best in the world but if you're in the landline business right now you're not going to have a very bright future. However, the business that we are in we pull from the market that we get, and you're seeing here, right? And, these are days that we have very often where customer pool is remarkable. I mean, this industry is growing at, depending on which analyst you're talking to somewhere between 50 to 80% ear on ear. All right, every customer is a prospect for us. There isn't a single conversation that we have with any organization almost of any size where they don't think that they can use their data better, or they can enhance and improve their data strategy. So, if that is in place and I am confident about our execution, very, very happy with the technology platform, the support that we get from out customers. So, all things seem to be lining up. >> Raj, thanks so much for coming on, we appreciate your time. We went a little bit over, I think, the allotted time, but wanted to get your insight as the new President and Chief Operating Officer for Hortonworks. Congratulations on the new role, and looking forward to seeing the results. Since you're a public company we'll be actually able to see the scoreboard. >> Raj: Yes. >> Congratulations, and thanks for coming on the CUBE. There's more coverage here live at Dataworks 2017. I John Furrier, stay with us more great interviews, day two coverage. We'll be right back. (jaunty music)