>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering AWS Reinforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. Welcome >> back, everyone. Day two of live coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts, for AWS Amazon Web services. Inaugural conference called Reinforce. This is a Cloud security conference, the first of its kind. It's the beginning of what we see as a new generation of shift in now new category called Cloud Security. Obviously, Cloud has been growing. Security equation is changing and evolving. I got a great guest here. Colby Alan, who's a platform architect at ZIP with based in Seattle. Great for joining us. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. So we're chatting before we came on about your journey and your Dev ops chops you guys have built over there that I want to get into that just quickly explain what you guys do real quick. Set the context. >> Yes, it is on SMS text messaging provider way Specialize in toll free messaging. We also texting able landline phone numbers. Our business is kind of really split into two parts way. Have you know your traditional Sadd's application that ran runs like a sad That's where you can, you know, have the you I thio interface your landline phone number eight under number With that messaging, no, top that We run a carrier grade network. So we have direct binds into all the major carriers in the U. S. Bringing online some Canadian carriers. That's really where the power of our platform and we own the network on DSO way started Nicolo and over the last last year, which has spent nine months moving all that into Amazon and >> forget about that. So explain the architecture. You guys move yet polos with network you moved to Amazon with three people. Just classic devils. A lot of hard work, I'm sure take us through what happened. What was the old environment? And now what does it look like now? >> Yeah, so, you know, when I just started with, you know, they were interesting place. They were just starting a huge growth. And so at that point, they existed in a few data centers in the U. S. And running the empire workloads on or bare metal databases on. The problem was, there was just a scaling problem, right? I mean, we couldn't way We're looking at the type of scale we needed and trying to procure hardware. And we just couldn't physically get it fast enough with the right amount of budget. So I come from a previous place doing a job? Yes. I mean, that's kind of what I've done for a lot of years. So, you know, I convinced my boss stay here. Let's let's run the stats happen. Eight of us. So we built that ran it, launched our new version of arse as application in Amazon. And at that point, you know, our traffic skyrocketed. You know, I think last year we had somewhere to 180% growth, right? And, you know, our core infrastructure just wasn't surviving. Right is outages and problems. And so, you know, we took it and we we went to Amazon with it. And, you know, we rebuilt it all. And it was a really interesting thing, because Amazon was Luther releasing features and we were consuming them, right? Five. Siri's and Nitro came out, and we're like finally waken get performance of the networking interfaces. Then they released the D instances within ve Emmys, or like finally, our databases will survive and they can go fast enough, you know? And then we leveraging huge Aurore instances, real impact power, the back end of this thing. So you >> guys really tapped really? At the right time? You guys were growing. You saw the, you know, that scale potentially bursting. You saw the scale coming in growth coming in the company you could almost see. Okay, look, we got a plan. So you go to Amazon News Service is what's the impact on the staff has been any more people. What's been the impact on? >> Yeah, I think the big thing is the initial move. We did it for three of us. I mean, it was a lot of work. We spent a lot of time doing it. A lot of people, sleepless nights, a lot of long weekends. But now you know, we've got a really stable platform, and, you know, we were able to really continue processing our message. Growth is increased, and we know we haven't, you know, had to totally re architect things again, right? The architecture's work has grown and expanded. Stale ability has been fantastic for us. The performance, of course, is you know, some of >> the best walking commercial for eight of us, a question paper. But if you'll have that same experience, but what's interesting is you guys essentially are, in my opinion, representative of the trend that we're seeing, which is certainly in security as they catch up the devil. That's a big story here. Security now can level up with speed of the Dev ops kind of engineering philosophy and pointing, but it's it's the trend of building your own and a lot of companies. They're reinvesting in teams of people because they're close to the action and they can actually code if I quickly use cases that they know are bona fide, whether it's a low level platform service, primitive or right up into the app, using machine learning and data. So you know you have now that now you had security in there. This is where the action is and so cos I mean, I see the successful ones like you guys coming in saying You know what? Let's not boil the ocean over. Let's just solve one problem scale and then let's look at the service is that we can leverage to doom or take us through that philosophies. I think you guys were great example of that. >> So, I mean, if we touch on the security aspect, I think that that was a big thing is way. Don't run a dedicate security team. My team is the security team, right? And that was a big thing that both me and my director is. You know, we wanted the people building it to be doing the security. And, you know, the that was what was really, you know, easy with eight of us is, you know, we could turn on all these fancy features. It was just, you know, a flag and Terra formed all of a sudden way. Have encryption arrest. It's something we've never had before. So there's that. And then, you know, to the builder methodology be because we came from such a scrappy like way. Got to go fast, like we didn't have time to evaluate software bringing consultants, you know, it's so, you know, we kind of just kind of adopted that, you know, it's better for us a lot of times to kind of roll our own thing. Andan there, times where there's software that's a good fit for it. I mean, we do use some external vendors on things, and >> that's really more of a decision on the platform. But as you look at the platform engineer, you go. Okay, we gotta build here. Let's weigh No, he don't really is not me that be a core competency. Let's go look at some vendors for this, this and that. But ultimately, if you look at something that's really core, you can dig into it. And certainly with Kubernetes and with a lot of the service is coming out sas after taking eventually Cloud Native. >> Yeah, yeah, through you're you're so we're huge Criminality is 100% kubernetes everywhere, and I think that that's really been another big thing for us is you know, it's it's brought our application up a level to be able to integrate, be more reliable. I mean, you know where you used to have this external service discovery piece, and then you have your security peace. You know where kubernetes I can go deploy a container application. Describe it all at once, right? It's all in my coat config so I can audit it for our compliance sees. You know we can co to review for our compliance, sees but the same time I deploy the whole thing. I'm not. Here's this team to point the There's this other team then coming by trying to secure the app. It it's all together. >> The old way would have been kind of build it out, maybe use some software. Have all these silo teams. Yes, and that's kind of all kind of built in. >> Yeah, we kinda just opened it out, right? I mean, you know, from from arse, as teams leveraging a lot of, you know, the security features that are available to us to our core piece, which is a very different type of software, you know, is leveraging the same pieces and same type of monitoring principle. >> It's interesting, You know, the Kino. There's something people hemming and hard around, like the word Dev sec ops. I mean, I love Devon. We've been we've been part of that since day one. It's been fun to be part of it, but we saw the benefits of it. Clearly. You see, no doubt there's no debate. But when you start getting into some of the semantic definitions, go to security known feel that, by the way, is fragmented like crazy and now you get the growth of the cloud is starting to see cloud security become its own thing That's different than the on premises side. So what's your take on that? Because a lot of people are wanting their going to cloud anyway. So what's that they're saying on premise, security posturing and cloud security? In your opinion? >> Yeah, so I mean, it is drastically different. I think part of it's the tool set that's available, right? I mean, we ran data centers. I've automated data centers, but, you know, they're just not at the level of which I could do the automation in the auditing in the cloud. So I feel like I found actually, some respects makes it easier for me to do security on run security and audit security numbers. The data center. You know, I don't run a lot of tooling and a lot of things to get all the views. I need it, But there's a lot of really separate systems, you know, in the cloud you have, like this one. Nice, fundamental, a p I. That hi is a person who has to build the infrastructure can use, but it's the same a p I that I put my security had on that. Like I used to make security, right, security groups, things of that sort. It's all the same, right? I'm not having to learn five different applications has been really important for our team because, you know, my team comes from the vast majority of no true Dev ops Thio. You know, we've been upgraded from people in our knock, you know, and have them really just learned the one ecosystem >> is you don't want to fragment the team. Yeah, I don't wanna have five different skill sets, kind of >> their victims. We just We don't wanna have tools that only one person knew how to do right. We wanted people to take vacations right? And like, we don't want to have a tool that's like only only that person knows how to run it, nobody else does. And so >> that was the big thing for us. What you think about the show here, reinforce all say it's not an Amazon Webster's summit. They do the summits which assistance see a commercial version of reinventing regions. This is a branded show is obviously their cloud security going hard at it. What's your take. So far, >> I've really enjoyed it. I mean, so I've gone to some. It's I've been to reinvent for a few years spoken to reinvent once, you know? But, you know, those things were fun, but they're so big and there's so much going on, you know, it's it's refreshing to be in this reinforced conference and focus on the security side. Sitting talks were like, You have people getting into kms and like some of these really pivotal tools. Yeah, it's been really, really >> get down and dirty here. Yeah, And people talk to, you know, approachable >> without, like, having to deal with all of Amazon, right? I can focus on, like, this one little >> portion reinvent you kidding? Walked through the hallways just like >> yeah, I mean, Well, where one hotel Are you gonna >> be at that point now, right? Yeah. >> Okay. So I gotta ask you about the dev ops question. We've been commenting yesterday day Volonte, who is on his way in. He and I were talking with a lot of si sos and a lot of practitioners. And the conversation generally was security needs to catch up to Dev ops and to pay who you talk to. They may or may not believe that way. Think that to be true. We think security now has the level up with the speed of Dev ops from his agility things that are highlights. For example, you guys have What's your take on that when someone says, Hey, security's got to catch up the devil Is it really catching a prism or transformation? What's your view on this >> will be like when you say catching up like it takes a negative. You know, I don't want to be negative there on DSO. I feel like it's a transformation. That means the same thing of going from the data center as as just as an operational engineer to Amazon is, there wasn't catching up. It was you just changing everything you do and how you think. And I think you know that's That's the same thing that a lot of security people I've seen struggle with was their success. Life are the ones that have gone, and I understand that, like, >> what do you think is the most important story happening in this world security cloud security screen general that should be covered by media that should be covered by the industry that is covered him should be amplified Maur or isn't covered and should be talking about what's the what is the most important stories that should be told. >> Well, so again, you know, I'm a fundamental layer, so things to me that I are always over shouted or like, you know, just encryption, right? I mean, everybody's like train encryption on. But, you know, I feel that talks I've gone to today or deeper dives into that. I feel like, you know, the kms product of Amazon. I feel like is a very powerful product that isn't super talked about. It's been nice here because they talked about 100 like you go to reinvent you don't really see a lot of kms type things are crowded, just them. And, you know, I think it makes some of those very difficult products to run in a data center very easy. You know what you hear on the security side is unsecured, as three buckets are like. Security groups are in conflict. Configure it incorrectly. And you know, no one knows that commercial. Everyone knows that. You know Elasticsearch not turned into a new s three right compromises You choose your database of choice of public. But for me, I think it's like a part that I feel is missing with Amazon is the ease of use of like, clicking a button. And >> now I have >> full Aurora encryption by default >> and the service you can just turn on what's next for you guys. Give us a peek into some of the things they're working on. What excited about? >> So I mean, we're making Ah, big thing is, you know, so we spend a lot of building now we're kind of going back and really kind of wrapping are a lot of our compliance is so zip it is a hole has been working towards a lot of stock to type compliance, seize on things like that. So, you know, we've been working through governance and no deploying. You know, software that kind of is more actively watching our environment and alerting us or helping us make sure we're staying at C. I s type benchmark so that you know, when my boss comes to me and says, Show me that we're doing this, I can just say, Oh, here's dashboard. So we were really not like via more secure State is a big, big product that we're working with right now. We leverage cloud health and those kind of the two external vendors that we've really partnered with. And so, you know, this year's been adopting those into the system. That's when the eight of us side, you know, we still just run Cooper Nettie. So there's a lot going on in the Cuban aunties ecosystem that we're also working on. So, like, service, mash and things of that sort like, How can I take this idea of security groups in this least trust model infrastructural e up to kubernetes, which by default this kind of flattened open. And so, you know, we've been exploring envoy and sdo linker D or write our own, you know, you know, and looking through those things and and then again wrote, making more robust CCD pipeline. So container scanning vulnerability, protecting our edge way running cloudfront wife for a while. But, you know, a lot of this year's gonna be spent, you know, Evaluate Now you know, we deployed a lost about 10 and got it turned on right because it works. But diving more deeply into like some of the autumn mediations >> have a fun environment right now, is it? You can knock down some core business processes, scale them up, and then you got the toys to play with the open source front. You got kubernetes really a robust ecosystem. They're just It's a lot of fun. >> Yeah, Criminal has definitely been exciting to play with >> advice to fellow practitioners and platform engineers because, you know, you guys been successful with transmission A the best. You got your hands on a lot of cool things. You got a good view, the landscape on security side of the deaf, upside for the people out there who were like they want to jump in with a parachute open. Whatever makes you that nervous, Some people are aggressively going at it hard core. Some have cultural change issues. What's your invite? General advice to your >> fellow appears My advice is just jump in and do it right. I mean, you know, don't be afraid. I mean, we had a really fast transformation, and we failed a lot very fast, and we weren't afraid of it. I mean, you know, if we weren't failing, we weren't doing it right. You know, in my opinion, right. We had to fail a few times a year. I was gonna work. And so I think, you know, don't be scared to jump in and just build, you know, right the automation. See what it does. Run some tests against it. >> You know, it's almost like knowing what not to do is the answer. Get some testing out there, get his hands dirty. >> What's gonna work for you? What's gonna work for your business? And the only way you're going to do that is to actually do it. >> Showed up in specialized Colby. Thanks for coming and sharing the great insight. Kobe Alan, platform engineer for Zip Whip Great company here. The Cube. Bring all the action. Extracting the signal from the noise. Great insights. And here, coming from reinforced here in Boston, eight dresses. First conference around. Cloud security will be right back after this short break

(upbeat music) >> Live from Miami Beach, Florida. It's the CUBE. Covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to Miami. This is the CUBE the leader in Live tech coverage. We go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise. We're here at VeeamON day one, 2019 at the Fountain Blue hotel in Miami. Danny Allen is here. He's the vice president of product strategy at Veeam, welcome. >> Thank you, I always love being here with you. >> Good to see you. >> Fresh off the Keynote we we're joking that you're up against South Beach and you had packed out room none the less. People we're into it. It was like the KoolAid injection of, the firehose of feature announcements. Eight demo's in about an hour, hour and a half. So congratulations for getting that done. >> Thank you. >> Feels like a weight off your shoulders I'm sure, you've been working on that for a long long time as have your engineers. Okay, well let's get into it. Where do you want to start? Veeam? Product strategy? I mean it's an exciting time for you guys. You know, dial back several years ago there were a lot of nice incremental improvements. But there's a lot of like, really see changing things that are going on. Your take? >> So I would argue the last ten years is all about modernizing the data center. Even though, people have been talking about clouds significantly, over the last ten years. The adoption hasn't really been there. So now were at this inflection point where all these organizations are saying okay, now I really have to do something about cloud. The fight for dominance in the cloud management era is only really beginning now. And will unfold over the next few years. >> That's some interesting competitive dynamics going on. There's a lot of money (clears throat) pouring into the space. Why do you think Veeam is in such a good position to be as, what Ratmir called the dominant player in cloud data management? >> So, two things really. So we have this maniacal focus on make it simple, make it realiable, make it flexible. But one of the other things, that I think that really drives this, is-- so those are differentiators. Simplicity, reliability, flexibility. But we have an unfair advantage. In that we have 350,000 customers that are giving us guidance on how to make it simple, how to make it reliable, how to be flexible. >> You know one of the other things-- you've been at this like I said since seven A.M this morning >> (giggles) >> We're at the Analyst and the media briefing. You just did the Keynote. You talked about the five stages the Veeam availability platform. And it was refreshing, to actually hear a company who's traditionally a back-up software company. Say, start with backup. Right? >> Yes. >> Everybody is sort of running away from the term. And you're saying start there. Backup cloud mobility, visibility, orchestration, automation. So you sort of laid out this journey, but the core of it, is back-up. Because that's kind of what you guys are all about, right? >> That's how you get your data. Everyone wants to talk about artificial intelligence, in power points. And machine learning, more real of course. And I want to talk about where we're goin', but we're not there today. I mean, we have customers that struggle with back-up. And they struggle with back-up in their data center and in the cloud. So, I always highlight to customers, yes, we want to go there. And we'll help you get there. But start with back-up, because that's about aggregating you data into one place. >> So, you're talkin' about the customers being just sort of starting really, their to really dig into the cloud. I mean obviously, I don't know what the stat is it's lke 20% of work loads are in the cloud. 80% to go, depending on who's data that you're looking at. And, typically you would think the vendor community leads-- >> Mhm. >> The user adoption. Okay, that makes sense. But so what are the specific things now that we're I guess, let's see, 2006 it all started. >> Yes. >> 2010, we started really paying attention to it. So, now that we're a decade and change in, what are the learnings on how was that affecting your product strategy? >> So, one of things, the initial thought, 2010 to 2015 maybe, people thought well I'll just pick up my data center and move it over here and drop it in the cloud. What they quickly learned is, I always say the cloud is not a charity, right? They layer in margin, and so just picking up infrastructure and moving it somewhere else doesn't necessarily leverage the cloud for what it's good at. And so, I don't -- Sometimes what we actually see is reprioritization, like the data goes back on premises after it moves to the cloud. But we are beginning to see, cloud native applications that are designed for cloud. And that's where I think it's really interesting. Looking at Kubernetes looking at functions as a service. That is where I think the cloud, is really going to find it's legs over the next few years. >> Yeah, you talked about that in your Keynote That you're going to need backup for things like Lambda and functions in the service. You're going to need back up for containers. And that's a whole new world. It's not just back-up, as we were talkin' earlier, about data assurance. Spitting down containers, spitting them up. Making it harder for the bad guys to sort of figure out where the vulnerabilities are. So, that's clearly part of the I don't want to say road map 'cause Ratmir said well we don't really have these strict roadmaps. >> Yes. >> But part of the vision. >> Yes, absolute part of the vision and strategies. So what we do is, we keep our finger in the pulse of what is happening. Like I say, we have an unfair advantage. 350,000 customers. How many of them are actually moving to the cloud? What are they moving to the cloud? Are they building in the cloud? So, having that visibility into how this cloud adoption is taking place, is giving us an advantage that frankly other companies don't have. So, we invest in understanding that and then being ready when the scale actually tips. >> Mhm. >> So, one of the things that I find particularly interesting, is that back-up, and restore, we've said it a couple times today has historically been a bolt on. Something, that you do as an afterthought. Something you do once a system's been built. But it's this transformation, this move to digital business, puts data at the center of a companies strategy and value proposition. It means that now, this whole notion, this whole-- what back-up does, and why it's now important, is because it comes, it becomes for the first time, central to what a companies strategic business capabilities are. How is that shifting, as a product guy? How is is that shifting, how you balance and how you get information about features and functions, and no road maps, but what you do next? >> We always look at how we can enable that next generation of activities. So, you made and interesting comment there. You said people always bolt on back-up after the fact. And I look back, I come out of the security industry. People will bolt security on, after they've built the system. We only really became better as an industry, when we built security into the applications, rather than-- >> Something we're still learning to do. >> Yes. And we're only now so people are still bolting on back-up I would argue that we're now going through this phase of building data management into our platforms. Building data management in is more than just back-up it's an insuring that all of the data you have the visibility across it, that you can unlock it, that you can distribute it. Because if we're only looking at data in a reactive way we're missing the greater opportunity to make our businesses run faster. >> Yeah well, faster and better, we're diminishing the value of the options that we have on how we use our data. >> Yes. >> And that's not what you want to do in digital business setting. We talk about assurance. >> Mhm. >> Data assurance, so data protection is one thing. But that seems kind of like what's already happened. Whereas, data assurances, ensure that your data is in the right place, at the right time, with the right set of services and the right set of meta data, so that you can spin up that Kubernetes cluster if that's where you need it. >> Yes. >> How does that notion, that kind of forward reaching, turning data into asset, generating new strategic value streams out of your data, from a platform like Veeam, how does that comport with this notion of assurance? >> Good question, and-- a challenge that we have frankly as Veeam, is that our typical buyer has been the back-up data center assurance buyer. And as you begin to look at how do we expand beyond this to unlock data and build systems in all of sudden there's new constituent in play. It's not the IT administrator anymore. It's the compliance team, it's the security team. It's whatever team happens to be involved. So, we operate this in a few different ways. One is certainly at a marketing level. Just the messaging around Ransome, where the messaging around compliance, and GDPR, the messaging around how you can do more with data. But frankly one of the big things that we do is events like this. We have CIO's and administrator's of IT I was speaking with CIO last night, he started out as an administrator of Veeam, sorry VMware ten years ago, and now he's a CIO. And so, these events are what enable us to get the message out, about what Veeam is actually capable of. >> That's not an uncommon profile by the way. >> (giggles) Yes. >> One more question if I may, that you got a strong security background and now your in data protection. Those two, groups, are looking at many of the same problems. >> Mhm. >> And if you think about where the security guys are going, they're increasingly looking at what they can do with data from a services standpoint that goes beyond security. And you look at what data protection is doing, you're looking at how you can start to add more data security attributes to the platform that you have. Where does this-- where does security and data protection intersect? And come together? And when do you think? >> Well, frankly, I believe that Veeam is at the intersection of that now. >> Okay. >> And to take it one step further, I think it's not only data protection, data security but also data privacy. So the advent of GDPR and regulatory around users ownership of data. And I think it's going to get worse, before it gets better. I'll be honest on that because we have this patchwork of regulations with no central model and if I was a CIO I would be pulling my hair out. But I believe that Veeam is well positioned because we're at the intersection and we can see all of this data. That's why visibility is the center stage in that five stage journey. Because you move from being reactive to being proactive with the data. And proactive in terms in of security, and proactive in terms of data privacy. >> You know it's like a three sides coin, if that's even such a thing. >> (giggles) >> We've talked about security, has shifted from one of pure defensive to responsive. How do I respond? How quickly can I respond? You know, data protection has always been about recovery. >> Mhm. >> I think two of you're firehose, demo's today were about fast recovery. From backups and >> Yes. >> And then recovery to (mumbles). And I feel like I kind of agree. It could get worse, before it gets better. When you think about privacy, it sort of reminds me of the early days of the federal rules of civil procedure and you're trying to plug holes with email archiving. And it was just a band aid. >> Mhm. >> You mention GDPR, a couple of times. How have you seen, GDPR sort of affect the way in which people think about data protection and data management? Has it been a real up-tick? In awareness? Is it still, sort of like the email archiving, plugging the finger in the dike, what's your take? >> Well, I just wrote an article on this actually because May 25th is the one year anniversary of the implementation of GDPR. But its done a few different things. One is, its raised user awareness and organizational awareness of the issue of data privacy as opposed to security. That the users have some ownership over their data. So if nothing else, its just raised awareness for the users and the organizations. The second thing though, that its done, its actually put, there's legal teeth to this. There's been hefty fines associated with it. And I think those are only going to increase. The market is only really getting started. We're going to see how it plays out over the next five years. But I expect to see more GDPR compliance issues and more fines associated with it. But ultimately it's better for the end user because they get the ownership that frankly they deserve with their data. >> So this right to be forgotten, is sort of central to GDPR. So, how can the backup corpus, you know be a linch pin of the right to be forgotten. Or, potentially the smoking gun if it's not found. >> (giggles) >> Thoughts on that. >> So, we've introduced specific capabilities for this. So, around GDPR, we have simple things. When I say simple things, complex. But we've made it simple for customers to tag data. Does this belong in this country, versus this country, this country. Because actually when you recover forget about whether it's privacy data, are you even allowed to do that. But secondly, we introduced a step and update for this was back in January that when you recover data you can actually say, I want to run this script to eliminate that user's data from being recovered. Because if they exercise the right to be forgotten, after the database is in archive, and then you recover it, their data is back all of a sudden. So we introduce, a sandbox environment. Where you could run all of the same GDPR right to be forgotten scripts, so when it's recovered that's eliminated. And our focus has always been make those types of processes really simple for our end customers. >> So I got excited this morning when you were talking about the fast recovery from back-up. >> Mhm. >> And you talked about replication and where that fits. But being able to have the architecture and the meta data access, to be able to do a fast recovery from back-up is pretty profound. >> Yes. >> It seems like your architecture is designed in a way that it's not a do-over. As a product guy that's probably quite helpful. But I wonder if you could just describe sort of the-- the tenants of the architecture. Just in terms of what it means for Veeams future, future proofing, however, you know buzzword we want to throw at it. But there's an architectural component that was my takeaway from this mornings conversation, that's fundamental. >> Yeah, one of the fundamental components is our data is self-describing. If you have WinZip and I have 7-Zip I can send you a file, and you can open it. And we did that with different programs entirely. So when we do a backup, there's no dependency on a central server, or central management environment. And that's really important when you move things from the cloud, to on premises to another cloud, to different environments because otherwise they all need to talk to one another. In order to understand , what the data is that they receive. Another problem with that model, is that if that central management environment goes down you've lost everything. With a self-describing format, what it means is even if the Veeam Software blows up and goes away if I have that VBK file, I can recover all of the data in it. And that is very unique to us. Because if you do your data protection in the cloud, you just need to move the data on premises and I can open it on premises with a completely different software stack if you will. If you acquire a new company I can open their back-ups even assuming I have the keys, and permissions and security and all of that. Even though it was managed or backed up with completely different management stack. >> So, your saying if a competitor loses their catalog. >> Yes. >> They're screwed. >> Yes. >> And that's not the case with you guys. >> We actually had this happen just recently in a (mumbles). Customer had both a competitor and our software. And they were hit with Ransomware. The Ransomware hit the meta data catalog and they lost everything in the competitors software. Now, because they were following the 3-2-1 rule and they had one data offsite with Veeam, they were able to recover 100% of the Veeam back-ups, and 0% of the competitors back-ups. >> Well, that's story. >> (giggles) >> Yeah but-- >> Case study in the making. >> But that is actually, it's fundamental to the model. And it's not only fundamental for block storage back-ups but also the way we introduce object storage, and cloud object storage models as well. That it's completely self describing even if your Veeam software goes away and your ten years down the road. You can still get that data back. >> Okay. We got to give you the final word here. Day one, we're wrapping up day one with Danny Allen. Head of Product Strategy at Veeam. Your Keynote, the Analyst Feedback, Customer Feedback, summarize it all into a bumper sticker. You know, take as much time as you like. >> (laughter) Well, this is an exciting year for us. So we've, we have a really strong focus on cloud. You probably see that all over. Cloud data management we're talking about over and over again. >> It's on the wall. >> It's on the wall. It's on the pins that we wear. It's everywhere. So cloud data management, and another thing that you, I don't know whether people have noticed but we've put the focus back on our buyer. Who is the technical decision maker. So rather than talking about the environment ten years from now, and artificial intelligence, and machine learning. While we get excited about those things, we've brought it back to our core buyer. Because the budget today is for back-up. The budget is not for artificial intelligence. There is a budget for back-up. So we've done two things. Focus on cloud, and focus on that technical decision maker and it seems to be resonating. Customers all day long, great, great conversations. >> Well, it's pragmatic. You guys are pragmatic company, always have been. Danny Allen, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE. It was great to see you. >> Thank you very much . >> All right and thank you. That's a wrap for day one. Peter Buress and I will be back tomorrow again wall to wall coverage. This is the CUBE, and we're here at VeeamON 2019, in Miami. We'll see you tomorrow. (electronic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Adobe Summit 2019. Brought to you by Adobe. >> Welcome back everyone, live CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit 2019 I'm John Furrier. With Jeff Frick. Our next guest is Jeff Allen, Senior Director Product Marketing, Adobe. Jeff, welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. Nice to be here. >> So day one is kind of winding down, big, great keynote, laid out the platform product's working together, lot of data, lots of data conversations. >> Yeah, exciting day. Excited to have Adobe Analytics in the mix with that, you saw the four clouds we talked about, Analytics Cloud is one of them and really kind of core to everything we do at Adobe, right? In fact, even in the Creative Cloud side, Document Cloud side, our customers have to be able to measure what they're doing and so, data is obviously key to that. >> Tapping the data across the different applications and now clouds - It's interesting - it's a whole new grail, people have been trying to do for how many years? >> Forever, from the beginning. >> And it's always been that holy grail, where is it? Now some visibility is starting to get to see into the benefits of horizontal scale, diverse data, contextual workloads, >> Absolutely, yeah. >> This is a big deal. >> It is a big deal. >> Explain why it's impacting. >> It's funny. Our culture now expects data right? We measure everything. Our kids are taught to measure things, even something as simple as likes on, my kids, they argue about whether the picture mom posted of them or the other one got more likes, right? So we kind of have hardwired our society around measurement, and now of course, marketing has always been a measurement-heavy discipline, and so, it's just absolutely core to what we're doing. >> And we had a historic moment, we've been doing theCUBE, it's our 10th season, a lot of events. >> Congratulations. >> And we had a guest come on here, that we've never had before, the title was Marketing CIO, it was one of your customers at MetLife >> Interesting, yeah. >> But this brings the question of, of the confluence of you know, the factions coming together. IT, creative, marketing, where the tech, measurement, data. >> Yeah, totally. >> Data processing, information systems, kind of an IT concept now being driven and married in with the business side. >> Absolutely. >> This is really the fundamental thing. >> I started my career marketing to CIOs, in fact, I've spent most of my career marketing to the CIO organization, right, and about 7 years ago, I came over to Adobe to market to marketing, right? And I used to say, "You know I kind of like marketing to this guy, I understand him better," right? Because I know how marketers think a lot better than CIOs, I had to go learn how they thought. But it's amazing how the tech explosion has happened in MarTech and AdTech, all of these vendors here at this event, this is just a piece of our industry, right? There's thousands of companies serving marketing organizations, and so, all of a sudden, the tech stack looks more crazy than even what many CIOs manage, and so it doesn't surprise me at all that organizations, you're talking to organizations that have a CIO/CMO hybrid role. >> Jeff, I'm curious how the landscape is changing, because all the talk here is about experiences, right? And the transaction is part of the experience, but it's not the end game, in fact, it's just a marker on a journey that hopefully lasts a long time. How does that change kind of the way that you look at data, the way customers are looking at data, you know, how the KPIs are changing, and what they're measuring, and the value of the different buckets of data as it's no longer about getting to that transaction, boom, ship the product, and we're done. >> Yeah, so I look after Adobe Analytics, and Adobe Analytics was the first component we acquired in this business, right? Experience Cloud, started with the acquisition of a company called Omniture back in 2009, was an analytics company, primarily web and mobile app analytics, and it has grown since then, to measure many more things. And we've seen our category with analytics that we've addressed move from web analytics to a broader view of digital analytics, right? The digital parts of marketing to all of marketing, the rest of marketing said, "Hey, we need measurements too. We need tools." And then it clicked out another broader click to this idea of experience, right? Because everybody has a stake in experience, and experience is all wrapped around people and how people move through experiences with your brand, so that's where we sit today, is really helping organizations measure experiences, and that spans every person in the organization. >> Talk about the dynamic between how the old way of thinking was shifting to this new way, and specifically, the old way was "I'm a database guy. I've got operational databases and analytical databases," you know, and that was it. You know, relational, unstructured, you know, kind of quadrants. Now, it's kind of, you have (laughs) it's not about databases, it's about data. So you have operational data, which is the analytical data now >> Yeah. >> So you have now, this new dynamic, it's not about the databases anymore >> Absolutely. >> It's about the data itself. >> It's not about, I would say, it's not about the stores of data, right? It's about really getting the insights out of the data, and you know, for the longest time, in my career, uh, you went to CIO, the CIO organization and there was a BI team there, and you would ask them for data, and they could go to the main frame, they could go to these big IT systems, and you know, in 30 days, they could email you back a .csv file, or even before that meeting, give you a .zip file or something with the .csv file on it. And then you got to go see if you could even get it to open on your laptop and get it into Excel and start to manipulate it. And those days don't work. >> And then you go get your root canal right after. It's a painful process. >> What if the data - today that data is trying to understand, "Hey I got a guy that just checked into the hotel. He's standing in front of me, I need to know if he had a bad experience the last time he checked in with us, so I know if I need to give him an upgrade. And you can't go down to I.T. real quick and ask them to take 30 days to get that data and then crunch the data all to find out. Customers need to know, and in the experience business, immediately this person just walked into the hotel and we need to give them a good experience, we blew it last time for them. That's what the experience business wants out of data. >> One of the questions we had with Anjul, who runs engineering on the platform side, was around the rise of prominence of streaming data, how is that impacting the analytics piece, because, you know, if you want the flow, this is a key part of probably your side of the business. Can you comment, what's your reaction to that - streaming trend? >> We've been talking about streaming for a while. CIO, this isn't a new thing, we were streaming applications, right, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, but really in the story I just shared, right? The idea of going down and waiting in this asynchronous process with data, the experience business can't handle that, so streaming data is really implying that, as it's coming in, we're processing it, and learning from it, and getting that out into the systems and the people that can take action, instantaneously. >> Talk about the dynamic that customers have around, traditional silos within their organization, you know, that guy runs the database and data for that department, that person runs the data over there, and if this vision is to be, is to be, is to come true, you have to address all the data, you got to know what's out there you got to have data about the data, you got to know in real time, and these are important concepts. How does a company get through that struggle, to break down those kind of existing organizational structures? >> It's a cultural shift, I mean, who has a desktop publishing team anymore in their organization, right? Everyone does desktop publishing, that is how data is too. Everyone's got to be comfortable with data, they have to be conversing around data, and everyone needs access to data. So, that's, you know, that's what is happening in our industry, the analytics industry, is that we're democratizing that data, and getting it everybody's hands, but it's not enough to give them charts and graphs, they have to be able to manipulate that and make it apply to their part of the business, so they can make a decision, and go, and so, that shift in how people think about data, as it's not part of your - it's part of everyone's job, as opposed to being a specialized, siloed job. >> I'm just curious to get your take, a lot of conversations here about you know, Adobe, using their own products, eating your own dog food, drinking your own champagne, whatever analogy (laughs) you like to use. And when you see the DDOM, right, the Data-Driven Operating Model, on the screen, in the keynote, with the CEO, and he says, "Basically everyone at this company is running their business off of these dashboards, that's got to be pretty, pretty, uh, profound for a guy like you who is helping feed those things. >> It's cool. I like to talk about what I call the modern measurement team. The modern measurement team is no longer that centralized data team, right, or that centralized BI team, but every single function, right, under CIO. Every one of the CEO's directs, has their own data team. You go look around and you see that in every single function, there is a sophisticated data team. They have the best tools in the industry, they have the smartest people they can find, they have PhDs on staff, and that's not enough. So, these teams now have to get that out to every constituent in their organization. And that's what we're trying to do at Adobe, that's what we're seeing our best customers do as well, is trying to inform every decision anybody makes. >> And that's where machine learning really shines. You get high quality data on the front end, with the semantic data pipeline capability, get that into the machine learning, help advance, automate, that seems to be the trend. >> Yeah. Yeah, look the insights that you can get from the data, the ability to predict with rich data, it sounds - prediction sounds like - invention used to sound like this novel thing, right, and then you realize, we're inventing things all the time, that's not so - that's just creativity. Well, the same thing is happening with AI and ML, is we're able to predict things with good statistical modeling, with pretty strong, uh, reliability around those models. >> The keynote had great content, I liked how you guys did a lot things really well, you had the architectural slides, platform was a home run, how you guys evolved as a business, see you laid that out nicely, but one of the things I liked, not that obvious, unless you go to a lot of events like we do, everyone says "The journey of the customer", I mean, it's a, it's become a cliche, you guys actually mapped specific things to the journey piece that fit directly into the Adobe set of products and technologies, and the platform. It's interesting, so the word journey has become, actually something you can look at, see some product, see some - a pathway to get some value. >> There's definitely a risk if the word journey, becomes like "Big Data" and all these cliche terms, you know, that means everything, so it comes to mean nothing. But for us, journey, and as marketers especially, journey is just naturally understanding where did I interact with this person, and what did that lead to along the way, right? And so, customer journey, is absolutely core to data analytics. >> All the hype markets, cloud washing, until Amazon shows them how it's done, everyone else kind of follows, you guys are doing it here with journey, one of the things that came out was a journey IQ. I didn't really catch that. Can you take a minute to explain? >> So we have a couple of things. We have something called Segment IQ, Attribution IQ, and now we have even introduced Journey IQ. And when you see that IQ moniker on one of our, kind of our super umbrella features - that means that we're applying AI and ML, right, and Sensei is involved. So we're using powerful data techniques, and we're also wrapping it with a really simple user experience. So Journey IQ starts to break down the customer journey in terms that a normal person, without a PhD, without knowing statistical methods, or advanced mathematics, can leverage those techniques to get really powerful insights. And that's specifically around the customer journey. >> So the IQ is a marker that you guys use to indicate some extra intelligence coming out of the Adobe, from the platform. >> Yeah, yeah, if we're going to democratize data, right, we have to democratize data science as well, right? And so, a big part of what we're doing at Adobe Analytics is really simplifying the user experience, right? So I don't say, Do you want to run a regression model against this to answer your question? We just say Click this button to analyze. Right? So it's a simple user experience, behind the scenes, we can run these powerful models for the customer, and give them back valuable insights. So, Journey IQ is specifically taking things like cohorts, and introducing cohort analysis into the experience, making it simple to do powerful things with cohorts. >> What's the pitch to a customer when you go to one and talk about all this complicated tech and kind of new, operationalized business models around the way you guys are rolling it out, when they just want to ask you, "Hey Jeff, I care about customer experiences." So, bottom line me. What's the pitch? >> How can you possibly address your customer's needs if you don't know what they think. Right? What they need? So, at the end of the day, the great thing about working with customers, like most businesses do, is customers are happy to tell you where you're getting it right, and where you're getting it wrong, right? And that's all over the data. So all you have to do is develop a culture of using data to make decisions, and 9 times out of 10, if you have the right data, and people are using the data to make decisions, they are going to make the right calls and get it right for your customer. And when they don't, they're using opinions and they're going to get it wrong all the time. >> Or, bad data, could be hearsay. >> Or you course correct, or that wasn't - you know, make an adjustment. Right? Again, based on the data. >> Exactly, yeah. >> You're in product marketing, which is a unique position, because you have to look back into the engineering organization, and look out to the customers, so you're, you're in a unique position. What's the customer trend look like right now? What are some of the things you're hearing from the market basket of customers that you talk to? Generally, their orientation towards data? Where are they on the progress bar? What is the state of the market on the landscape of the customer, what patterns are you seeing? >> Good question. So there's a lot of - there's a lot of, um, anxiety around where do I have pockets of data that I'm not able to leverage, and how do I bring that together, so when we tell a platform story, like you heard us tell today, customers are really excited about that, because they know, they've known forever. I mean, this isn't a new problem, like, data silos have been around as long as data has. So, the idea of being able to bring this data into a central place, and do powerful things with it, that's a big point of stress for our customers. And they know, like, "Hey, I have dark spots in my customer experience, that I lose the customer." For example, if I'm heavily oriented around digital, let's say, um, I'm a retailer, and I see a customer, I acquire them through advertising channels, they come through an experience on my website, and they buy the product. Success. I ship the product to them, and then they return it in the retail store. The digital team might not see that return. >> So they might think it was successful. >> They think it was successful. So what do they do? They go take more money and spend it in the ad channel, where that person originated. When in reality, if they could look at the data over time, and incorporate this other channel data, of in-store returns, the picture might look very different. >> So basically, basically. >> It's those dark spots that customers are really needing. >> So getting access to more diverse data, gives you better visibility into what's happening contextually, to open up those blind spots. >> Exactly. Yup. It's just that, adding resolution to a photo. >> Love this conversation, obviously we're data-driven as well on theCUBE, we're sharing the data out there. This interview is data as well. >> Fantastic. >> Jeff, final question for you - for the folks that couldn't make it here, what's the - how would you summarize the show this year, what's the vibe, what's the top story here, what's the big story that needs to be told from Adobe Summit? >> We're just a day in, there a lot, there's a lot to do still, right? We still have two more solid days of this show. But you know, the big themes are going to be around data, they are going to be optimizing the experience for your customers, and what's really amazing is how many customers are here, telling their stories. That's the thing, I wish everybody in your audience could experience by coming here, because there is 300 breakout sessions that feature our customers talking. All of our sessions on main stage, we bring customers out, and we learn from them. That's the best part of my job, is seeing how customers do that. >> Some of the best marketing, you let the customers do the talking, and they're doing innovative things. They're not just your standard, typical, testimonials, they're actually doing - I mean, Best Buy, what a great example that was. >> Cool brand - we work with some of the coolest brands in the world, so, fascinating, brilliant people. >> Marketing, at scale, with data. Good job, Jeff, thanks for coming on, appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Jeff Allen, here inside theCUBE with Adobe. I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. Stay with us for more Day 1 coverage after this short break. Stay with us.

(Music) >> Announcer: Live from the Bill Graham Auditorium, in San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Pure Storage accelerate, 2018. Brought to you by Pure Storage. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are live at Pure Storage Accelerate, 2018 at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium in San Francisco. I'm Lisa Martin sporting Prince today, with Dave Vellante sporting The Who. And I'm sandwiched, most importantly, between two Celtics fans. And the Warriors are across the bay. We'll save that for after the conversation. So we want to welcome to theCUBE for the first time Ken Ringdahl the VP of Global alliance Architecture. From Veeam, welcome. >> Great. Thank you, Lisa. >> Dave: Well the truth be told, we're afraid of the warriors, okay. We really don't want to play the Warriors. >> Oh really, alright. >> And we're not afraid of many people in Boston, but I don't know, they look pretty good. >> Well, I appreciate the honesty, that's pretty cool. >> Well... Though they lost last night. Right? We're going to start the sports talk now. >> Yep. >> Iguodala was out, they showed some foulability. So, anyway. >> We digress to- >> We'll be back to it later on in this segment stay tuned. >> Alright, so you're just fresh off Veeam On, last week. We're impressed that you still have a voice, you've recovered from that. Tell us a little bit about some of the things that are new with Veeam and Pure. So just a month ago, in April, new intergradation between VM availability platform, and Pure Storage flash a way to deliver business continuity, agility, intelligence for the Cloud era. Expand a little bit upon that. >> Yeah, sure, I mean really this integration with Pure Storage, in the VM backup and replication product, end of last year we introduced this new functionality called Universal Storage API. And what this really is, is a way for us to enable our partners to take control of their destiny a little bit more. It's a program we invite our partners into, you know Pure is one of the first that we integrated with, and invited into the program very early. We announced this last year, and we've now finished the integration, as you've mentioned, we announced it last month. It's now been out there, and I think the number I heard earlier today is that we've already had a couple hundred downloads and deployments. So that's just great adoption, and just shows the pent up demand for that. But what we've integrated is the ability for our partners, our storage partners in particular to integrate with our storage snapshot technology to really off load the snapshot from the VMware side, and really put more of it on the storage side, and take it really off the production environment. And so it's a better together story where you know we take the feature that we've introduced into the backup and replication, and Pure built this plug-in, and they integrate with their own APIs and we jointly test and develop, and release that plug-in. And they can install it with VM backup and replication, and it really takes the mention, it takes that load off the production environment. So that snapshot without this integration, it's a VMware snapshot, that snapshot stays open as long as the backup is. Which can be minutes, and you know tens of minutes potentially for a large system. But now we shrink that down literally to just seconds. So we take a VMware snapshot, we take the Pure snapshot, we close the VMware snapshot. And typically it's like 10-12 seconds long where as opposed to the minutes, and even tens of minutes from before. So, really it's really offloading a lot of that back up impact, and we're able to do it in a very secure quiesce fashion from the production environment. >> Lets roll back and understand that a little bit better. >> Ken, if you could explain it to us and our audience. In the 2008, seven, eight, nine timeframe. Virtualization Gem of VMware in particular started to take hold. And you ended up replacing a bunch of physical servers with virtual servers, which was awesome, because all those physical servers were underutilized, except for one major workload, which was backup. So when you did want to do the backup, you didn't have enough resources. Veeam's ascendancy coincided with that trend, so there was a simplicity component, but it seems like what you're describing now is another instantiation of offloading that bottle neck. So what was the journey to Veeam's efficiency in a virtualization environment? >> Ken: Yeah if you look at that journey, and Veeam really grew up in the virtualization age, right. So backup prior to VM, or virtualization was all agent based, it was physical. So everything was over the wire, and Veeam went and said, hey look you know we see VMware really sort of growing, and we see that trend towards virtualization, right, and at this point, what's the world 95 percent virtualized, at this point the only workloads that aren't virtualized are really legacy work loads. And so we made a significant leap forward in a data protection stance, by integrating with the hyper visors. So instead of off loading that into the individual guests, right. The Windows guest, the Linux guest. We said, okay we're going to go the hyper visor. Right? And we're going to do this in an agent less fashion, so that you don't have to go an visit every little, every system that you're looking to backup. That was sort of the first step, right. Now what we're saying is we can do even better. And we can off load the hyper visor, and off load that to the storage system. So we can have a very small impact on the hyper visor, really minimize that. And now really put that workload on the storage system which has a lot of extra cycles and availability, and we can go straight to the backup environment. And not through the VM, or through the hypervisor to get there. >> Dave: So VMware admins, they don't like snapshots because it's overhead intensive, it clogs up their system if you will. This capability makes that transparent, or irrelevant to them? >> It does, it minimizes them to such a small degree that it's a blip. You know it's a little blip on the radar, as opposed to when you snapshot a VM you're essentially quiescing that VM, so everything sort of slows down for a very short period of time. And what happens is that it spawns another virtual disc. So while that snapshot is open this other virtual disc is being written to. And then when you close that snapshot, and you remove that snapshot, that disc gets merged back in, right. This is generally how VMware snapshots work. And what we're saying is we're going to minimize as much as we possibly can. The data that goes in there, so if you think of a running virtual machine, if you're merging back in a Gigabyte disc versus a disc that has 10 Megabytes, you know that's going to be really, really quick, as opposed to, you know if you keep that snapshot open for a long period of time that merge operation, and it just slows things down, and we're trying to minimize that impact on the system. >> Lisa: So business benefits; I get the performance improvements that this integration with Pure facilitates, if we think of this in the context of digital business transformation, where companies that are doing well, have the ability to really glean actionable insights from their data to be able to drive, you know, new products and get products to market faster. Is this actually going to facilitate a company being able to get new products to market faster? >> Absolutely, so there a feature inside of VM backup and replication we call data labs. And what data labs is, is the ability to take a production snapshot, in this case, we're talking about a pure snapshot, and be able to stand that up in a sandbox environment. And you can run DEV tests, you can apply your Windows' patches in an environment that literally matches production. And it's a key differentiator. It's a key differentiator for Veeam, and it's enabled by the Pure Snapshot integration that you have this environment, and even if you have an infected system, you go put it over in data labs, it's sandboxed, so you can put in a private network so it doesn't have any connectivity. Say if you have a worm, or some other ransom ware, you can run analytics, you can run diagnosis on any of that, and not worry about it infecting any other environment, nor does it put work load on your production environment. So you get patched Tuesday, right, and we all know that Windows' patches don't always go as they seem, right? So data labs, let's take that Pure snapshot, let's stand up a virtual environment, which exactly matches production, let's test that patch, right. And we have confidence there, so when we go to production, we have confidence because we've already done it. We've already run that in production. So there's a lot of value in that capability. >> So we were at Veeam On last week fresh off the Kool-Aid injection. It's all orange here, it was all green at Veeam in Chicago. The messaging there was all about multi-cloud and hyper availability in this multi-cloud world. We're hearing a lot about cloud like function here, but of on prem activity. Of course multi-cloud includes on prem, so I wonder if you could dove tail your messaging last week, what you're seeing in the field, and what you're seeing with the partnership with companies like Pure. >> Yeah no question. I mean the Veeam platform, and really you saw it last week at Veeam On we talked kind of about sort of private cloud, and public cloud and our ability to orchestrate, and really stretch across all those environments, and we know that customer all the way from SMB all the way up to enterprise, right. They have remote offices, branch offices some of them use the cloud, some of them use multiple data centers, and really they need their data protection to be able to stretch across those environments. They don't want point solutions in each of those locations. They want a platform that they can trust, and have visibility, right. That's one of the five stages that we talked about about hyper availability, like last week. Is visibility, they want visibility across those clouds. Phase two is aggregation, they want to be able to aggregate all these different places. And that's what we provide our customers with the platform is backup, visibility, aggregation, orchestration, automation. And we provide them on different stages of that journey for our customers. We have different products, services and integration actions with our partners, that really help our customers along that journey. >> We know from our research, the crew at Wiki Bond does some great work on this. We know that data protection, and orchestration are moving up on the list of CXO priorities. At the same time, for a lot of IT practitioners who are under real budget constraints it's like trying to sell more insurance to a 24 year old. So those are kind of two countervailing trends, what are you seeing in the market place? >> What we're seeing is customers, you know down time is really is gone. I mean, I think last week we heard in one of our keynotes, you know you roll back a couple of years, you were talking about availability in terms of five-nines, right? Now it's zero. I mean people don't talk about down time because down time can't exist, and customers need that sense of security and availability. You know, it will happen, lets face it even Amazon, the best data centers in the world, go down, right, there's been some notable S3 outages, but it's about how fast can you recover. And you're talking about low RPOs, and one of the things that this week at Pure Accelerate we're hearing a lot about rapid recovery, flash blade, and the ability and you take rapid recovery and flash blade, and you combine that with the Veeam platform and our instant recovery, and you can get to near zero time recovery, in your environments. To really provide that security, and lets face it, time is money for a lot of our customers, right? So they longer they're down, the more time their losing money, they need availability, and the RPOs are near zero these days. = [Dave] The other thing, if I may just follow up, just one follow up. The other thing our research shows is the average Fortune 1000 company, over a three or four year period is leaving, literally, a billion plus dollars on the table because of poorly architected backup, or inadequate backup. So that's a huge opportunity for you and others, obviously. There's a lot of opportunity right now for vendor turn. That's the other thing our research shows, is that people aren't wed to their backup and recovery vendor. So, does that resonate with customers, are they because of digital, for example, are you seeing that tipping point, that critical mass occur, and then if you could tie that in to sort of your partnership with Pure, I'd be interested in that. >> Sure, yeah, no doubt about it. We're seeing customers, you know, they want that flexibility and that portability. One of the things we do with out platform, it's one of our unique selling features is is that it is agnostic, right. And I'll tie it back to Pure in a moment, but you know when we back up, we back up in a storage agnostic fashion. So any Veeam backup that lands on a disc on the tape anywhere, can be reconstituted, can be re imported, so even if you have a full disaster scenario, we can go stand that back up some where else, and fully consume that backup and restore it, and we have direct restore capabilities. We can port those backups and direct restore them. For example, a direct restore Azure, for example. So that flexibility, and portability is extremely valuable. Now, bring that back to Pure, some of the things we're doing around rapid recovery around the snapshot integration, we talked about is we're really enabling customers to have high performing primary storage environments. High performing secondary storage environments. And really bring that together in a way that works. We talked about multi cloud, right, you know, remote data centers and work across, and aggregate and give visibility. That's really where the Veeam Pure story together, becomes really strong because you've got an incredibly high performing primary and secondary with a highly flexible, portable secondary data protection environment. And you get the capability to get to the cloud. You know DL, a lot of customers looking to the cloud for DR, because they don't have to stand up infrastructure there. When they need it, they can spin it up, and then they can bring it back. And there's a lot of value there. >> I hear a lot of harmony, but I actually read recently, online, that a different analyst firm called the Pure Veeam relationship a match of opposites. Now they say opposites attract, and you've done a great job of talking about the integration, do you agree that it's a good blending of opposites, and if so what's that kind of symbiotic benefit that those bring to each other? >> Yeah, I don't know that I saw that report, but what I would say you know, there's a lot of synergy, we're growing at a very rapid rate, I think. When I looked at Pure, and I look at Veeam we grew 36 percent last year, I think Pure is growing at like 50 percent year over year. We have NPS scores, our NPS score is 73, we're really proud of that. The Pure NPS score, I think I saw- >> 83. >> Ken: 83. >> Dave: I didn't think it could be higher than 73. >> It's incredible. It is incredible, and I think there is a lot of synergy, the size of the organizations, I think the age of our organizations, the aggressiveness that we have, we have joint competitors in the market, so I think there's a lot of synergies between where we are as an organization, as Veeam, and where Pure is. I wish I read the article in terms of the opposites, because I'd love to understand. >> Personally, as a long time analyst, I would say the similarities are greater than the differences. >> Sure sounds like it. >> You're both about a billion dollars, you're both growing at lets call it 35-40 percent a year. You're both pursuing platforms, your both really aggressive, you're insanely passionate about your customers and winning. And you like colors, you like green, they like orange. Alright, we got to talk a little sports here. >> Lisa: Speaking of green. >> I'm going to start somewhere else though because I asked this question of a number of folks at Veeam On. If you were, Ken, if you were Robert Kraft would you have traded Tom Brady? >> {Ken] No. >> Elaborate. >> I think when you look at a, the guy was the MVP of the league last year, so that by itself stands on it's own, but you have to look and the Patriots have always been about, sort of you know, trading or moving on a year or two early, versus a year or two late. So you could make that case with Tom Brady, but I think there's always exceptions, and when you look at, I mean he is basically like an adopted son of Robert Kraft and the organization. He's brought five Superbowls, he's basically, he built Patriot place, you know. Robert Kraft built Patriot place on the backs of Tom Brady and Bill Belichik to that extent. But how do you move on from someone who's brought you so much success, that has been under market. You know, get paid under market so that they can go and do other things, and have flexibility with the gap. I just don't know how you could move on from that. >> So, that's consistent now, I think it's four for four of people we've asked, Boston fans. So appreciate that feed back. Let's talk a little hoops, you know Celtics we were feeling pretty good, up two zip, now it's tied two-two. Houston, Golden state, tied two-two. Those two teams have proven they could win on the road, Celtics haven't proven that yet. What are your thoughts on that series? >> Yeah so certainly Cleveland came storming back, I think the stories of the down fall of the Cavs were clearly over exaggerated. They came back in a big way. I think they Celtics started to figure out the Cavs in quarters two, three, and four. They got themselves in a big hole in the first quarter in the last game. I feel good, the Celtics are nine and O at home this year in the post season. You know, it's basically the best of three, and they have two of them at home, so. The Cavs will have to break serve if they want to win the series. >> Dave: If they're lucky enough to get through to the finals, which would be unbelievable, do they have any shot against the Warriors? >> So, I think to say they have no shot is probably going a little too far, but- >> Dave: Got to play the game. >> You know you got to play the games, and the Celtics have, traditionally, matched up well against the Warriors. I mean least year, the Celtic actually came into Oracle, and broke, I don't know, what was it, like a 50 game home winning streak or something. So, you know, and that was a team that didn't have Kyrie, or Gordon Haywood, and I know they're still out so the future looks bright for the Celtics. But in the context of this years finals, certainly, if I were a betting man, I'd be putting my money behind the Warriors, but I don't doubt that Brad Stevens could come up with a scheme that could steal a couple of games, and make people in the Bay area feel a little uneasy. >> Would love to see a non Lebron Final, you know. >> Yeah I think as the words would like the Celts >> Sorry Brandon, sorry buddy. >> A little diversity, you know three years in a row we've had the same things, so I'll extend my support to the Celtics in honor of both of you guys. >> Alright, and we can talk, if they get to the finals then we can take it from there. >> I can't imagine what the day after the Superbowl was like for both of you. We won't go there. >> I still haven't recovered, so. >> (laughs) Awesome, well Ken, thanks so much for stopping by. Congrats on being a CUBE alumni, now. We look forward to seeing you Veeam World in just a few months time. >> Yes, great. Thank you. We'll be there for sure. >> For Dave Vellante, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from Pure Accelerate 2018. Stick around, Dave and I will be back with a wrap in just a moment. (music)

>> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE! Covering VeeamON 2018. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to the Windy City, everybody, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day two coverage of VeeamON 2018. I'm Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman, my cohost. Peter McKay is here, he's the co-CEO of Veeam. Peter, great to see you again, >> Great to be here David, Stu. >> Thanks so much for making some time. Lovin' the show, we're watching the evolution of Veeam. You know, go from scrappy fighter, now movin' up the stack. We know from our research that data protection and orchestration are moving up the list on CXO priorities. You were brought in to really uplevel, top-level the company's messaging, the branding, the talent. How you feelin'? >> I'm feeling good, I think this was a major step, right. You know, a lot of work going in to just really understanding the market, for me at least. Coming out of VMware and coming into an availability market. So I became a student of the space, talking to a lot of customers, talking to a lot of partners, really pulling together what that business message is, versus a feature-function message. What we were doing to actually help drive the business, you know, especially now when more and more data is being accumulated, more and more companies are digitizing their organization. And for us, we're kind of the ones that keep that up and running. I think it was important for us to make sure that message gets out, to when we deliver it in the market, that people think of us as that strategic solution for their mission critical, always-on, which we call hyper-availability, for the enterprise. Any app, any data, any time. >> Very partner focused event, here. You can't walk anywhere without bumping into a partner. When, you were at VMware for a number of years, and VMware was famous for every dollar spent on a VMware, some number, $15, $17 was spent on the ecosystem. So that was sort of, probably ingrained, in the ethos of your career, right? >> Yeah, and you know, when coming here you recognize there was a lot of great discussions, a lot of good technology integration with, you know, companies like Cisco and HP and NetApp and others. But there wasn't this follow-on go-to market. Like, how can we make it easier for our customers? How can we make it easier for our customers to buy a combined solution versus a technology? And so to do that well, we recognized early that we had to uplevel the relationships we're having with Pure and Nutanix and all these other companies that were really getting in front of these enterprise and mid-market companies, but with multiple tracks. And we felt that if we can do more together with them, that we would have, the customers would have a better experience. And so, we started going down that path, we started to do things more together. Merging that value proposition together with these companies. And then merging our sales efforts together. It brought about a tremendous impact on just the customer success, their experience in leveraging our technology. And this is just kind of the start of it, because I think there's a lot more to come, that on the partner side that I think is going to be, you know that gets us to that two billion, three billion mark. >> Yeah, so I wanted to touch on that so, that combined with the expansion of your product portfolio, the move into cloud and multi-cloud and orchestration expands your TAM significantly. Talk about some of the numbers. Over $800 million in bookings-- >> 827, yes. >> 30 plus percent growth, >> 36. >> 36% growth. >> But who's countin'? (laughs) >> Oh that's good, and so, now, and of course currency as a Swiss based company, let me get this right, currency now is somewhat of a headwind for you guys, right? So you're blowing through that, or no, do you guys hedge or how do you handle it? >> Nope, we're US dollars, everything is US dollars. Everything is US dollars. >> So that's a tailwind then for you guys? >> That is, it is, you know, lookit. We've always operated as a long-term software company. A long term sustainable, we don't have the quarterly, we're not public, right? So we don't have to hit targets in earnings along, and you know currency's going to go up and down at various times. Some days, some times, you're going to have the benefits, the tailwinds and headwinds. So, for us, we just continue to make the right decisions based off of where we see what's the best interests of our customers, what's the best interests of our partners, and then let the dust settle. >> But you do pay attention to the months and the quarters internally? >> We do, yes, well in large part because our ecosystem does, right? When you're selling with Cisco you need to know when their quarter ends, and when their year ends, right? Or Nutanix, because they're all motivated by those quarters. And I've always been in, for the most part, public companies that had that quarter. So we still operate that way, but the way we make decisions is based on what's the long-term best interests of our customers. >> And there's not that external 90-day shot clock, Stu, as we talked about. >> No, yeah, no. Yeah, so Peter one of the things that's really interesting to look at at your company, you're at 133 customers a day. That's 10,000 a quarter. Very different when you talk about the enterprise, it's not just how many customers, but there's, at least traditionally been more, it's more belly-to-belly. You have to be deeper engaged. You've got this partner? Bring us inside a little bit, some of the challengers there are about going from the scale and simplicity that built Veeam, to deeper in to these enterprises. >> That's a really good question, and you know there is two elements of that. The first one is first, do no harm. Your SNB business is cranking double digits, your mid-market is cranking double digits, and invest heavily in this massive opportunity we have in front of us in the enterprise. But make no mistake, that's a major effort that we've embarked on two and a half, three years ago. Our technology, as you mentioned it, is broadening. Our messaging is upleveled. Our focused marketing efforts are very much targeted to very specific customers. Our support is different, I mean everything we do. The ecosystem is different to go into that enterprise space. So it's a massive investment that we're doing around the globe, to get much closer to those companies. But, we're not losing what made us great. Which, get in the door, just get in the door to any of these companies. You're going in, you're going to Coca-Cola, just get in the door and then do a really good job and expand from there, which is really what we've been doing since the beginning. >> On that, you know I heard like, AIX support is coming. All the enterprises like, well but I have this other application that you're not certified. You go down the SAP HANA route, and Oracle and everything else, you can just get bogged down in so much red tape. >> And that's changing, it used to be that we're, not used to be we are the number one VMware backup. We're the number one virtual backup. And we're the best in the world at virtual. But, and Ratmir would always say, we're just going to do virtual, virtual. Well in the enterprise, that can't be, right? You need to be, obviously virtual, cloud, 'cause every conversation you're having is multi-cloud, right? And you need physical, because there's 10, 15, 20% of all these enterprises that are going to stay physical. And so for us, we needed to do that. Now we've done, now we can do virtual, physical, and cloud for our enterprise customer, for everybody, but we see it more in the enterprise. >> When Veeam first started, it saw an opportunity to help with the virtualization problem. Backup had to change with virtualization. Veeam, right place, right time, right product and right attitude, boom. What's more straightforward than what's going on now, what's happening now, and I wonder if you could comment, from our perspective is, there's a dichotomy between what the businesses expect in terms of the levels of data protection, the levels of orchestration and automation that exist, and what IT can deliver. And it seems like Veeam is trying to fill that gap. Which says a couple things, it's a jump ball, to use the basketball analogy, which we'll be talking about later. And the second thing is that there's a lot of potential for customer churn. Which is good news for you guys. >> First off, there's a lot of churn going on. Anybody that bought a solution two, three, four, five, 10 years down the road, the game has changed, right? We kind of track three things. One, it's all about the data, right, and the data today is becoming much more critical for businesses, right? Our business, every business, it's all making better decisions with more critical data and at the right time. The second is it's massive data growth. It's exponential, it's, what did they say? 2x every, every, 10x every five years? And so we're seeing this massive increase in growth of data that if you use the same methods you used in the past, it's really expensive and really difficult to be able to manage that and keep it running and available. And the last is sprawl, it's everywhere. I mean data is on devices, from thermostats to automobiles to everywhere. And so, used to have it sitting in an easy data center, and now the data is everywhere. And so, you have the criticality of data, you have the massive growth in data, and you have a massive sprawl of data. And what we believe is we want to be that hyper-availability solution. That we're protecting that data, we're helping you manage that data, we're helping you orchestrate that data, and be able to protect it for companies who need it in real time because it's becoming so critical today. >> The other change that we would observe, is you're really kind of going from what was a product company, to a platform company. You showed that platform slide. Talk about the importance of platform in the enterprise to sustain growth. >> Yeah, I think there's, in the enterprise obviously it's more complicated. And you know, because of the sprawl, because of all the things I mentioned, it needs a bigger, broader solution that can be able to handle backup, backup and recovery, replication, failover. You need to be able to have a single pane of glass, whether it's in the cloud or on premise. You need to be able to manage and orchestrate workloads, from on premise, I want to put it in Azure, or I want to put it in Service Provider, and so the ability to be able to automate and orchestrate that movement requires a platform to be able to do that. With us, but also the ecosystem, right? I mean do it with the hardware providers, people who have a component for security, to make sure that if we detect ransomware, to kick off a backup, a clean backup. And so, this orchestration and automation is going to be a critical part of that platform. >> Peter, I wonder if we could step away from the technology for a second, talk a little bit about culture. We've been noting you come on board, Veeam's always had a good team, but been bringing on some key pieces, especially help focused on the enterprise. It's a challenge for a lot of companies to get into that space. Why is Veeam positioned well, talk to us about your methodology on how you bring these type of people in. >> We have, we've grown a thousand people over the last 12 months and that's on top of what we did the year before, and we're probably going to add another seven, eight, a thousand people this year. And the key is to do two things. One, we're investing heavily in our team, today, right? Because we're growing at 36% year over year, you're doubling almost every three years, less than three years. So you need to have that investment in the existing team, married with skillsets from outside, and bring in the best talent I can get to blend with that culture. So marry the culture of old with the culture of new, and that's, you know we look for hungry, humble, and smart. People who fit that description, that's what we look for, that's what we check for when we're recruiting top talent, whether an executive or you know, a front line sales rep or customer support. >> So, we only got a couple minutes, I got a question. If you were Robert Kraft, would you have traded Tom Brady? >> Oh, you saved that question! (laughs) >> What do you think? We're going to chime in, Stu and I have an opinion. >> If I was Robert Kraft, no, I would not have traded Tom Brady, Tom Brady has earned the right to plan his future with the Patriots. I think this needs to be a happy ending for Tom Brady, and I think it would be a happy ending for Robert Kraft, I would have proactively figured out how to handle Garoppolo far better than they did, I thought they handled that poorly, but no I would not have traded Tom Brady. >> So you mean, you would have wanted to get more for Garoppolo? >> Definitely. >> Yeah obviously, right, okay. >> If you were going to get rid of him, you should have done it sooner, or you should have done it, you should have figured out, how you'd be able to do it later. >> And got more value. Okay, so you're on the side that basically, Brady should be allowed to cash his chit for all these years taking haircuts, okay. (all chattering) >> Most importantly, performance. There's nobody who performed better. >> And Dave, Brady's performance, it's not like he's fallen off a cliff or he's some old man. >> He was MVP! >> Come on Dave, didn't you hear the note today? The reason Tom Brady's staying in there, is he hasn't gotten a thousand yards of rushing yet. I think he's 36 yards off, you know, >> That could take another three more years! >> He's way more mobile now than he was 10 years ago. >> Oh, so you guys are both optimists for the coming year? >> Oh, yeah. Well you know-- >> As long as we don't play the NFC East in the Super Bowl, we're okay. (speaking quietly) >> Okay, how about the Celts? Up two-zip, LeBron really, he showed up in the first quarter last night. I know you couldn't watch the game, because you were hosting a bunch of different events, but do you think LeBron's going to come back at home, a little home cooking? You know, can the Celts make it to the finals? >> I think Brad Stevens has exposed the Cleveland Cavaliers for the team that they are. Which is LeBron and a bunch of other guys. And so I think, yes LeBron's going to have, I mean he had 45 points, so it's like we're waiting for him to break out, hit 45 points and they still lost. So I'm not so sure you're going to see that massive resurgence, I think they'll get one game in Cleveland, I think the Celts will have one game, they'll win one game in Cleveland. >> I mean, I think you're right, I think Brad Stevens has exposed the supporting cast. Now unfortunately, if the Celtics make it that far, the Warriors aren't going to be exposed, 'cause their supporting cast is pretty strong. But it'll be great to get there, to compete. >> How about getting there, with your two top players are out. >> And what do you think, Gordon Hayward comes off the bench next year, he's your sixth man, I mean wow. >> Yeah, who do you trade to get even, and what would you trade for, to make the team better? I mean it's already in great shape. >> It's good to be a Boston sports fan isn't it? >> Peter: It's great to be a Boston sports fan. >> Peter thanks so much for coming to theCUBE, always a pleasure seeing you. >> Dave, Stuart, good to see you. >> Alright, keep right there, everybody, we'll be back with our next guest. VeeamON 2018, from Chicago, you're watching theCUBE.

>> [Announcer] 18, brought to you by Red Hat >> Well, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage here in San Francisco, California, for Red Hat Summit 2018. I am John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE with my analyst co-host this week, John Troyer, co-founder of the TechReckoning advisory services. And our next guest is Arvind Krishna, who is the Senior Vice President of Hybrid Cloud at IBM and Director of IBM Research. Welcome back to theCUBE, good to see you. >> Thanks John and John great to meet you guys here. >> You can't get confused here you've got two John's here. Great to have you on because, you guys have been doing some deals with Red Hat, obviously the leader at open storage. You guys are one of them as well contributing to Linuxes well documented in the IBM history books on your role and relationship to Linux so check, check. But you guys are doing a lot of work with cloud, in a way that, frankly, is very specific to IBM but also has a large industry impact, not like the classic cloud. So I want to tie the knot here and put that together. So first I got to ask you, take a minute to talk about why you're here with Red Hat, what's the update with IBM with Red Hat? >> Great John, thanks for giving me the time. I'm going to talk about it in two steps: One, I'm going to talk about a few common tenets between IBM and Red Hat. Then I'll go from there to the specific news. So for the context, we both believe in Linux, I think that easy to state. We both believe in containers, I think that is the next thing to state. We'll come back talk about containers because this is a world, containers are linked to Linux containers are linked to these technologies called Kubernetes. Containers are linked to how you make workloads portable across many different environments, both private and public. Then I go on from there to say, that we both believe in hybrid. Hybrid meaning that people want the ability to run their workload, where ever they want. Be it on a private cloud, be it on a public cloud. And do it without having to rewrite everything as you go across. Okay, so let's establish, those are the market needs. So then you come back and say. And IBM has a great portfolio of Middleware, names like WebSphere and DB2 and I can go on and on. And Red Hat has a great footprint of Linux, in the Enterprise. So now you say, we've got the market need of hybrid. We've got these two thing, which between them are tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of end points. How do you make that need get fulfilled by this? And that's what we just announced here. So we announced that IBM Middleware will run containerized on Red Hat containers, on Red Hat Enterprise Linux. In addition, we said IBM Cloud Private, which is the ability to bring all of the IBM Middleware in a sort of a cloud-friendly form. Right you click and you install it, it keep it self up, it doesn't go down, it's elastic in a set of technologies we call IBM Cloud Private, running in turn on Red Hat OpenShift Container service on Red Hat Linux. So now for the first time, if you say I want private, I want public, I want to go here, I want to go there. You have a complete certified stack, that is complete. I think I can say, we're a unique in the industry, in giving you this. >> And this is where, kind of where, the fruit comes off the tree, for you guys. Because, we've been following you guys for years, and everyone's: Where's the cloud strategy? And first of all, it's not, you don't have a cloud strategy you have cloud products. Right, so you have delivered the goods. You got the, so just to replay. The market need we all know is the hybrid cloud, multi-cloud, choice et cetera, et cetera. >> You take Red Hat's footprint, your capabilities, your combined install base, is foundational. >> [Arvind] Right >> So, nothing needs to change. There's no lift and shift, there's no rip and replace, >> you can, it's out there it's foundational. Now on top of it, is where the action is. That where you're kind of getting at, right? >> That's correct, so we can go into somebody running, let's say, a massive online banking application or they're running a reservation system. It's using technologies from us, it's using Linux underneath and today it's all a bunch of piece pods, you have a huge complex stuff it's all hard-wired and rigidly nailed down to the floor in a few places and now you can say: Hey, I'll take the application. I don't have to rewrite the application. I can containerize it, I can put it here. And that same app now begins to work but in a way that's a lot more fluid and elastic. Or my other way: I want to do a bit more work. I want to expose a bit of it up as microservices. I want to insert some IA. You can go do that. You want to fully make it microservices enabled to be able to make it into little components >> and ultimately you can do that. >> So you can take it in sort of bite size chunks and go from one to other, at the pace that you want. >> [John F.] Now that's game changing. >> Yeah, that's what I really like about this announcement. It really brings best of breed together. You know, there is a lot of talk about containers. Legacy and we've been talking about what goes where? And do you have to break everything up? Like you were just saying. But the announcement today, WebSphere, the battle tested huge enterprise scale component, DB2, those things containerized and also in a frame work like with IBM, either with IBM microservices and application development things or others right, that's a huge endorsement for OpenShift as a platform. >> Absolutely, it is and look, we would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit. I mean we use the word containers and containerized a lot. Yes, you're right. Containers are a really, really important technology but what containers enable is much more than prior attempts such as VM's and all have done. Containers really allow you to say: Hey, I solved the security problem, I solved the patching problem, the restart problem, all those problems that lie around the operations of a typical enterprise, can get solved with containers. VM's solved a lot about isolating the infrastructure but it didn't solve, as John was saying, the top half of the stack. And that's I think the huge power here. >> Yeah, I want to just double click on that because I think the containers thing is instrumental. Because it, first of all, being in the media and loving what we do. We're kind of a new kind of media company but traditional media is been throwing IBM under the bus since saying: Wow old guard and all these things. Here's the thing, you don't have to change anything. You got containers you can essentially wrap it up and then bring a microservice architecture into it. So you can actually leverage at cloud scale. So what interests me is that you can move instantly, >> value proposition wise, pre-existing market, cloudify it, if you will, with operational capabilities. >> Right. >> This is where I like the Cloud Private. So I want to kind of go there for a second. If I have a need to take what I have at IBM, whether it is WebSphere. Now I got developers, I got installed base. I don't have to put a migration plan away. I containerize it. Thank you very much. I do some cloud native stuff but I want to make it private. My use case is very specific, maybe it's confidential, maybe it's like a government region, Whatever. I can create a cloud operations, is that right? I can cloudify it, and run it? >> Absolutely correct, so when you look at Cloud Private, to go down that path, we said Cloud Private allows you to run on your private infrastructure but I want all these abilities you just described John. I want to be able to do microservices. I want to be able to scale up and down. I want to be able to say operations happen automatically. But it gives you all that but in the private without it having to go all the way to the public. If you cared a lot about, your in a regulated industry, you went down government or confidential data. Or you say this data is so sensitive, I don't really, I am not going to take the risk of it being anywhere else. It absolutely gives you that ability to go do that and that is what brought Cloud Private to the market for and then you combine that with OpenShift and now you get the powers of both together. >> See you guys essentially have brought to the table the years of effort with Bluemix, all that good stuff going on, you can bring it in and actually run this in any industry vertical. Pretty much, right? >> Absolutely, so if you look at part what the past has been for the entire industry. It has been a lot about constructing a public cloud. Not just us, but us and our competition. And a public cloud has certain capabilities and it has certain elasticity, it has a global footprint. But it doesn't have a footprint that is in every zip code or in every town or in every city. That's not what happens to a public cloud. So we say. It's a hybrid world meaning that you're going to run some workloads on a public cloud, I'd like to run some workloads on a private and I'd like to have the ability that I don't have to pre decide which is where. And that is what the containers and microservices, the OpenShift that combination all give you to say you don't need to pre decide. You rewrite the workload onto this and then you can decide where it runs. >> Well I was having this conversation with some folks at a recent Amazon Web services conference. Well, if you go to cloud operations, then the on premise is essentially the edge. It's not necessarily. Then the definition of on premise, really doesn't even exist. >> So if you have cloud operations, in a way, what is the data center then? It's just a connected issue. >> That's right, it's the infrastructure which is set up and then, at that point, the Software Manger, at the data center, as opposed to anything else. And that's kind of been the goal that we're all been wanting. >> Sounds like this is visibly at IBM's essentially execution plan from day one. We've been seeing it and connecting the dots. Having the ability to take either pre-existing resources, foundational things like Red Hat or what not in the enterprise. Not throwing it away. Building on top of it and having a new operating model, with software, with elastic scale, horizontally scalable, Synchronous, all these good things. Enabling microservices, with Kubernetes and containers. Now for the first time, >> I can roll out new software development life cycles in a cloud native environment without forgoing legacy infrastructure and investment. >> Absolutely, and one more element. And if you want to insert some cloud service into the environment, be it in private or in public, you can go do that. For example, you want to insert a couple of AI services >> into the middle of your application you could go do that. So the environment allows you to, do what you described and these additionals. >> I want to talk about people for a second. The titles that we haven't mentioned CIO, Business Leader, Business Unit Leaders, how are they looking at >> digital transformation and business transformation in your client bases you go out and talk to them. >> Let's take a hypothetical bank. And every bank today is looking about simple questions. How do I improve my customer experience? And everybody want, when they say customer experience, really do mean digital customer experience to make it very tangible. And what they mean by that is how do I get my end customer engaged with me through an app. The app is probably in a device like this. Some smart phone, we won't say what it is, and so how do you do that? And so they say: Well, all obviously to check your balance. You obviously want to check your credit card. You want to do all those things. The same things we do today. So that application exists, there is not much point in rewriting it. You might do the UI up but it's an app that exists. Then you say but I also want to give you information that's useful to you in the context to what you're doing. I want say, you can get a 10 second loan, not a 30 day loan, but a 10 second loan. I want to make a offer to you in the middle of you browsing credit card. All those are new customergistics, where do you construct those apps? How do you mix and match it? How do you use all the capabilities along with the data you've got to go do that? And what we're trying to now say, here is a platform that you can go, do all that on. Right, that complete lifecycle you mentioned, the development lifecycle but I got to add to it >> the data lifecycle, as well as, here is the versioning, here are my AI models, all those things, built in, into one platform. >> And scales are huge, the new competitive advantage. You guys are enabling that. So I got to ask you a question on multi cloud. Obviously, as people start building out the cloud on PRIM and with Public Cloud and the things you're laying out. I can see that going on for a while, a lot of work being done there. We're seeing that Wikibon had a true Private Cloud report what I thought was truly telling. A lot of growth there, still not going away. Public Cloud's certainly grown in numbers are clear. However, the word multicloud's being kicked around I think it's more of a future stay obviously but people have multiple clouds Will have relationships with multiple clouds. No one's going to have one cloud. It's not a winner take all game. Winner take most but you know you're have multiple clouds. What does multi cloud mean to you guys in your architecture? Is that moving workloads in real time based upon spot pricing indexes or is that just co-locating on clouds and saying I got this app on this cloud, that app on that cloud, control plane it. These are architectural questions. What the hell is multicloud? >> So there's a today, then there is a tomorrow, then there is a long future state, right? So let's take today, let's take IBM. We're on Salesforce, we're on ServiceNow, we're on Workday, we're on SuccessFactors, well all of there are different clouds. We run our own public cloud, we run our own private cloud and we have Judicial Data Center. And we might have some of the other clouds also through apps that we barter we don't even know. Okay, so that's just us. I think everyone of our clients are like this. The multicloud is here today. I begin with that first, simple statement. And I need to connect the data and can connect when thing go where. The next step, I think people, nobody's going to have even one public cloud. Even amongst the big public clouds, most people are going to have two if not more That's today and tomorrow. >> Your channel partners have clouds, by the way, your Global SI's all have clouds, theCUBE is a cloud for crying out load. >> Right, so then you go into the aspirational state and that may be the one you said, where people just spot pricing. But even if I stay back from spot pricing and completely (mumbles) I make. And I'm worrying about network and I'm worrying about radio reach. If I just backup around to but I may decide I have this app, I run it on private, well, but I don't have all the infrastructures I want to burst it today and I, where do I burst it? I got to decide which public and how do I go there? >> And that's a problem of today and we're doing that and that is why I think multicloud is here now. >> Not some point in the future. >> The prime statement there is latency, managing, service level agreements between clouds and so on and so forth. >> Access control on governance, Where does my data go? Because there may be regulatory reasons to decide where the data can flow and all those things. >> Great point about the cloud. I never thought about it that way. It is a good illustration. I would also say that, I see the same arguments in the data base world. Not everyone has DB2, not everyone has Oracle, not everyone has, databases are everywhere, you have databases part of IoT devices now. So like no one makes a decision on the database. Similar with clouds, you see a similar dynamic. It's the glue layer that, interest me. As you, how do you bring them together? So holistically looking at the 20 miles stare in the future, what is the integration strategy long-term? If you look at distributed system or an operating system there has to be an architectural guiding principle for integration, your thoughts. >> This has been a world 30 years in the making. We can say networking, everyone had their own networking standard and the, let's say the '80s probably goes back to the '70s right? You had SNA, you had TCP/IP, you had NetBIO's-- >> DECnet. DECnet. You can on and on and in the end it's TCP/IP that won out as the glue. Others by the way, survived but in packets and then TCP/IP was the glue. Then you can fast forward 15 years beyond that and HTTP became the glue, we call that the internet. Then you can fast forward and you can say, now how do I make applications portable? And I will turn round and tell you that containers on Linux with Kubernetes as orchestration is that glue layer. Now in order to make it so, just like TCP/IP, it wasn't enough to say TCP/IP you needed routing tables, you needed DNS, you needed name repository, you needed all those things. Similarly, you need all those here are called the scatlog and automation, so that's the glue layer that makes all of this work >> This is important, I love this conversation because I have been ranting on theCUBE for years. You nailed it. A new stack is developing and DNS's are old and internet infrastructure, cloud infrastructure at the global scale is seeing things like network effect, okay we see blockchain in token economics, databases, multiple databases, on structure day >> a new plethora of new things are happening that are building on top of say HTTP >> [Arvind] Correct! >> And this is the new opportunity. >> This is the new platform which is emerging and it is going to enable business to operate, as you said, >> at scale, to be very digital, to be very nimble. Application life cycles aren't always going to be months, they're going to come down to days and this is what gets enabled >> So I what you to give your opinion, personal or IBM or whatever perspective because I think you nailed the glue layer on Kubernetes, Docker, this new glue layer that and you made references to, things like HTTP and TCP, which changed the industry landscape, wealth creation, new brands emerged, companies we never heard of emerged out of this and we're all using them today. We expect a new set of brands are going to emerge, new technologies are going to emerge. In your expert opinion, how gigantic is this swarm of new innovation going to be? Just, 'cause you've seen many ways before. In you view, your minds eye, what are you expecting? >> Share your insight into how big of a shift and wave is this going to be and add some color to that. >> I think that if I take a shorter and then a longer term view. in the short term, I think that we said, that this is in the order of $100 billion, that's not just our estimate, I think even Gartner has estimated about the same number. That will be the amount of opportunity for new technologies in what we've been describing. And that is I think short term. If I go longer term, I think as much as a half but at least a fourth of the complete IT market is going to shift round to these technologies. So then the winners of those that make the shift and then by conclusion, the losers are those who don't make the shift fast enough. If half the market moves, that's huge. >> It's interesting we used to look at certain segments going back years just company, oh this company's replatformizing, >> replatforming their op lift and shift and all this stuff. What you're talking about here is so game changing because the industry is replatforming >> That's correct. It's not a company. >>It's an industry! That's right. And I think the internet era of 1995, to put that point, is perhaps the easiest analogy to what is happening. >> Not the emergence of cloud, not the emergence of all that I think that was small steps. >> What we are talking about now is back to the 1995 statement >> [John] Every vertical is upgrading their stack across what from e-commerce to whatever. >> That's right. >> It's completely modernizing. >> Correct. Around cloud. >> What we call digital transformation in a sense, yes >> I'm not a big fan of the word but I understand what you mean. Great insight Arvind, thanks for coming on theCUBE and sharing. We didn't even get to some of the other good stuff. But IBM and Red Hat doing some great stuff obviously foundational, I mean, Red Hat, Tier one, first class citizen in every single enterprise and software environment you know, now OpenSource runs the world. You guys are no stranger to Linux being the first billion dollar investment going back >> so you guys have a heritage there so congratulations on the relationship. >> I mean 18 years ago, if I remember 1999. >> I love the strategy, hybrid cloud here at IBM and Red Hat. This is theCUBE, bringing all the action here in San Francisco. I am John Furrier, John Troyer. More live coverage. Stay with us, here in theCUBE. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

brought to you by Red Hat well welcome back everyone this two cubes exclusive coverage here in San Francisco California for Red Hat summit 20:18 I'm John Ferreira co-host of the cube with my analyst co-host this week John Troy year co-founder of The Reckoning advisory services and our next guest is Arvind Krishna who's the senior vice president of hybrid cloud at IBM Reese and director of IBM Research welcome back to the cube good to see you hey John and John Wade you guys just kick it confuse get to John's here great to have you on because you guys are doing some deals with Red Hat obviously the leader at open source you guys are one of them as well contributing to Linux it's well documented the IBM has three books on your role relationship to Linux so yeah check check but you guys are doing a lot of work with cloud in a way that you know frankly is very specific to IBM but also has a large industry impact not like the classic cloud so I want to get who tie the knot here and put that together so first I got to ask you take a minute to talk about why you're here with red hat what's the update with IBM with Red Hat yeah great John thanks and thanks for giving me the time I'm going to talk about it in two steps one I'm going to talk about a few common Tenace between IBM and Red Hat and then I'll go from there to the specific news so for the context we both believe in Linux I think that's easy to state we both believe in containers I think that's the next thing to state and we'll come back and talk about containers because this is a world containers are linked to Linux containers are linked to these technologies called kubernetes containers are linked to how you make workloads portable across many different environments both private and public then I go on from there to say and we both believe in hybrid hybrid meaning that people want the ability to run their workload wherever they want beat on a private cloud beat on a public cloud and do it without having to rewrite everything as you go across okay so let's just average those are the market needs so then you come back and say an IBM as a great portfolio of middleware names like WebSphere and db2 and I can go on and on and rather has a great footprint of Linux in the enterprise so now you say we got the market need of hybrid we got these two things which between them of tens of millions maybe hundreds of millions of endpoints how do you make that need get fulfilled by this and that's what we just announced here so we announced that IBM middleware will run containerized on RedHat containers on Red Hat Enterprise Linux in addition we said IBM cloud private which is the ability to bring all of the IBM middleware in a sort of a cloud friendly form right you click and you install it keeps itself up it doesn't go down it's elastic in a set of technologies we call IBM cloud private running in turn on Red Hat open shift container service on Red Hat Linux so now for the first time if you say I want private I want public I want to go here I want to go there you have a complete certified stack that is complete I think I can say we are unique in the industry and giving you this this and this is where this is kind of where the fruit comes on the tree off the tree for you guys you know we've been good following you guys for years you know every where's the cloud strategy and first well it's not like you don't have a cloud strategy you have cloud products right so you have to deliver the goods you've got the system replays the market need we all knows the hybrid cloud multi-cloud choice cetera et cetera right you take Red Hat's footprint your capabilities your combined install base is foundational right so and nothing needs to change there's no lifting shift there's no rip and replace you can it's out there it's foundational now on top of it is where the action is that's what we're that's what were you kind of getting at right that's correct so so we can go into somebody there running let's say a massive online banking application or the running a reservation system is using technologies from Asus using Linux underneath and today it's all a bunch of piece parts you have a huge complex stuff it's all hard wired and rigidly nailed down to the floor in a few places and I can say hey I'll take the application I don't have to rewrite the application I can containerize it I can put it here and that same app now begins to work but in a way that's a lot more fluid in elastic well by the way I want to do a bit more work I want to expose a bit of it up as micro-services I want search Samia you can go do that you want to fully make it microservices enable to be able to make it as little components and digestible you can do that so you can take it in sort of bite-sized chunks and go from one to the other at the pace that you want and that's game-changing yeah that's what I really like about this announcement it really brings the best of breed together right you did you know there's a lot of talk about containers and legacy and we you know we've been talking about what goes where and do you have to break everything up like you were just saying but the the announcement today you know WebSphere the this the you know a battle-tested huge enterprise scale component db2 those things containerized and also in a framework like with IBM we either with IBM Microsoft things or others right that's um that's a huge endorsement for open shipped as a platform absolutely it is and look we would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit I mean we use the word containers and containers a lot yes you're right containers is a really really important technology but what containers enable is much more than prior attempts such as vm's and all have done containers really allow you to say hey I saw the security problem I solved the patching problem the restart problem all those problems that lie around the operations of a typical enterprise can get solved with containers VM sold a lot about isolating the infrastructure but they didn't solve as John was saying the top half of the stack and that's I think the huge power here yeah I want to just double click on that because I think the containers thing is instrument because you know first of all being in the media and loving what we do we're kind of a new kind of media company but traditional media has been throwing IBM under the bus and saying oh you know old guard and all these things but here's the thing you don't have to change anything you could containers you can essentially wrap it up and then bring a micro-services architecture into it so you can actually leverage at cloud scale so what interests me is is that you can move instantly value proposition wise pre-existing market cloud if I if you will with operational capabilities and this is where I like the cloud private so I want to kind of go with the ever second if I have a need to take what I have an IBM when it's WebSphere now I got developers I got installed base I'd have to put a migration plan away I containerize it thank you very much I do some cloud native stuff but I want to make it private my use case is very specific maybe it's confidential maybe it's like a government region whatever I can create a cloud operations is that right I can cloud apply it and run it absolutely correct so when you look at about private to go down that path we said well private allows you to run on your private infrastructure but I want all these abilities you just described John I want to be able to do micro services I want to be able to scale up and down I want to be able to say operations happen automatically so it gives you all that but in the private without having to go all the way to the public so if you cared a lot about you're in a regulated industry because you went down government or confidential data or you say this data is so sensitive I don't really I'm not going to take the risk of it being anywhere else it absolutely gives you that ability to go do that and and that is what we brought to our private to the market for and then you combine it with open shift and now you get the powers of both together so you guys essentially have brought to the table the years of effort with bluemix all that good stuff going on you can bring any he'd actually run this in any industry vertical pretty much right absolutely so if you look at what what the past has been for the entire industry it has been a lot about constructing a public cloud not just to us but us and our competition and a public cloud has certain capabilities and it has certain elasticity it has a global footprint but it does not have a footprint that's in every zip code or in every town or in every city that song ought to happen to the public cloud so we say it's a hybrid world meaning that you're going to run some bulk loads on a public cloud and like to run some bulk loads on a private and I'd like to have the ability that I don't have to pre decide which is where and that is what the containers the micro services the open ship that combination all gives you to say you don't need to pre decide you fucker you rewrite the workload on to this and then you can decide where it runs well I was having this conversation with some folks at and recent Amazon Web Services conference to say well if you go to cloud operations then the on-prem is essentially the edge it's not necessary then the definition of on-premise really doesn't even exist so if you have cloud operations in a way what is the data center then it's just a connected tissue that's right it's the infrastructure which you set up and then at that point the software manages the data center as opposed to anything else and that's kind of being the goal that we are all being wanted it sounds like this is visibility into IBM's essentially execution plan from day one we've been seeing in connecting the dots having the ability to take either pre-existing resources foundational things like red hat or whatnot in the enterprise not throwing it away building on top of it and having a new operating model with software with elastic scale horizontally scalable synchronous all those good things enabling micro search with kubernetes and containers now for the first time I could roll out new software development life cycles in a cloud native environment without foregoing legacy infrastructure and investment absolutely and one more element and if you want to insert some public cloud services into the environment beat in private or in public you can go do that for example you want to insert a couple of AI services into your middle of your application you can go do that so the environment allows you to do what he described and these additions we're talking about people for a second though the the titles that we haven't mentioned CIO you know business leader business unit leaders how are they looking at the digital transformation and business transformation in your client base as you go out and talk to us so let's take a hypothetical back and every bank today is looking about at simple questions how do i improve my customer experience and everyone in this a customer experience really do mean digital customer experience to make it very tangible and what they mean by that is how I get my end customer engaged with me through an app the apps probably on a device like this some smartphone we won't say what it is and and so how do you do that and so they say well well you were to check your balance you obviously want to maybe look at your credit card you want to do all those things the same things we do today so that application exists there is not much point in rewriting it you might do the UI up but it's an app that exists then you say but I also want to give you information that's useful to you in the context of what you're doing I want to say you can get a 10 second not a not a 30-day load but a ten-second law I want to make it offer to you in the middle of you browsing credit cards all those are new customer this thinks are hot where do you construct those apps how do you mix and match it how do you use all the capabilities along with the data you got to go do that and what we are trying to now say here is a platform that you can go all that do all that on right to that complete lifecycle you mentioned the development lifecycle but I got to add to the the data lifecycle as well as here is the versioning here are my area models all those things built in into one platform and scales are huge the new competitive advantage you guys are enabling that so I got to ask you on the question on on multi cloud I'll see as people start building out the cloud on pram and with public cloud the things you're laying out I can see that going on for a while a lot of work being done there we seeing that wiki bond had a true private cloud before I thought was truly telling a lot of growth they're still not going away public cloud certainly has grown the numbers are clear however the word multi clouds being kicked around I think it's more of a future state obviously but people have multiple clouds will have relationships with multiple clouds no one's gonna have one Klaus not a winner-take-all game winner take most but you're gonna have multiple clouds what does multi-cloud mean to you guys in your architecture because is that moving workloads in real time based upon spot pricing indexes or is that just co-locating on clouds and saying I got this SAP on that cloud that app on that cloud control plane did these are architectural questions it's the thing hell is multi cloud so these are today and then there is a tomorrow and then there is a long future state right so let's take today let's check IBM we're on Salesforce we're on service now we're on workday we're on SuccessFactors well all these are different clouds we run our own public cloud we run our own private cloud and we have traditional data center and we might have some of the other clouds also through apps that we bought that we don't even know okay so let's just toss I think every one of our clients is like this so multi cloud is here today I begin with that first simple statement and I need to connect the data and it comes connect when things go away the next step I think people nobody's gonna have only one even public cloud I think the big public clouds most people are gonna have to if not more that's today and tomorrow your channel partners have clouds by the way your global s lies all have clouds there's a cloud for crying out loud right so then you go into the aspirational state and that may be the one he said where people do spot pricing but even if I stay back from spot pricing and completely dynamic and of worrying about network and I'm worrying about video reach I just back up on to but I may decide it I have this app I run it on private well but I don't have all the infrastructures I want to bust it today and I've very robust it to I got to decide which public and how do I go there and that's a problem of today and we're doing that and that is why I think multi-cloud is here now not some pointed problem the problem statement there is latency managing you know service level agreements between clouds and so on and so forth governance where does my data go because there may be regulate regulate through reasons to decide where the data can flow and all the great point about the cloud I never thought about that way it's a good good illustration I would also say that I see the same argument of database world not everyone has db2 that everyone has Oracle number one has databases are everywhere you have databases part of IOT devices now so like no one makes a decision on the database similar was proud you're seeing a similar dynamic it's the glue layer that to me interest me as you how do you bring them together so holistically looking at the 20 mile stare in the future what is the integration strategy long term if you look at a distributed system or an operating system there has to be an architectural guiding principle for absolute integration you know well that's 30 years now in the making so we can say networking everybody had their own networking standards and the let's say the 80s though it probably goes back to the 70s right yeah an SN a tcp/ip you had NetBIOS TechNet deck that go on and on and in the end is tcp/ip that one out as the glue others by the way survived but in pockets and then tcp/ip was the glue then you can fast forward 15 years beyond that an HTTP became the glue we call that the internet then you can fast forward you can say now how to make applications portable and I would turn around and tell you that containers on linux with kubernetes as orchestration is that glue layer now in order to make it so just like in tcp/ip it wasn't enough to say tcp/ip you needed routing tables you needed DNS you needed name repositories you needed all those things similarly you need all those here I've called those catalogs and automation so that's the glue layer that makes all of this work this is important I love this conversation because I've been ranting on this in the queue for years you're nailed it a new stack is development DNS this is olden Internet infrastructure cloud infrastructure at the global scale is seeing things like Network effect okay we see blockchain in token economics like databases multiple database on structured data a new plethora of new things are happening that are building on top of say HTTP correct and this is the new opportunity this is the new the new platform which is emerging and it's going to enable businesses to operate you said at scale to be very digital to be very nimble application life cycles are not always going to be months they're gonna come down to days and this is what gets enabled so I want you to give your opinion personal or IBM or whatever perspective because I think you nailed the glue layer on cue and a stalker and these this new glue layer that and you made reference system things like HTTP and TCP which changed the industry landscape wealth creation new up new new brands emerged companies we've never heard of emerged out of this and we're all using them today we expect a new set of brands are gonna emerge new technologies and emerge in your expert opinion how gigantic is this swarm of new innovation gonna be just because you've seen many ways before in your view your mind's eye what are you expecting wouldn't share your your insight into how big of a shift and wave is this is going to be and add some color to that I think that if I take a take a shorter and then a longer term view in the short term I think that we said that this is on the order of 100 billion dollars that's not just our estimate I think even Gartner estimated about the same number that'll be the amount of opportunity for new technologies in what we've been describing and that is I think short term if I go longer term I think as much as 1/2 but at least 1/4 of the complete ID market is going to shift onto these technologies so then the winners are those that make the shift and then bye-bye clusion the losers of those who don't make this shift faster Afghan and stop the market moves that's that's he was interesting we used to like look at certain segments going back years oh this companies reap platform Ising we platforming they're their operative lift and shift and all this stuff what you're talking about here is so game-changing because the industries Reap lat forming that's a company that's it's an industry that's right any and I think the the the Internet era of 1995 to put that point it's perhaps the easiest analogy to what is happening not the not the emergence of cloud not the emergence of all that I think that was small steps what we're talking about now is back to the 1995 statement every vertical is upgrading their stack across the board from e-commerce to whatever that's right it's completely modernizing correct around cloud what we call digital transformation in a sense yes what not a big fan of the word but I lied I understand what you mean great insight our thanks for coming on the Kuban Sharon because we even get to some of the other good stuff but IBM and Red Hat doing some great stuff obviously foundational I mean Red Hat Tier one first-class citizen in every single enterprise and software environment you know now saw open source runs the world you guys you guys are no stranger to Linux being the first billion dollar investment going back so you guys have a heritage there so congratulations on the relationships that go around about ninety nine nine yeah and and I love the strategy hybrid cloud here at IBM and right at this the cube bring you all the action here in San Francisco I'm John for John Troy you're more live covers stay with us here in the cube Willie right back

>> Announcer: From Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube. Covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2018. Brought to you by The Cloud Foundry Foundation, >> Hi I'm Stu Miniman and this is the Cube's coverage of the Cloud Foundry Summit 2018 here in Boston, Massachusetts. Happy to welcome back one of our earliest and favorite guests of the Cube Chad Sakac Who's at Pivotal now and he handles PKS and Dell technologies. Chad, great to see you, thanks for joining us, welcome to the Boston area, you come through this area a lot but it's great to see you. >> It's good to see you too. This is, by the way, my first CF summit. So it's interesting, you and I have talked together at Dell Technologies World, Dell EMC World, and EMC World for years. >> Stu: VMWorld. >> And VMWorld. This is a different scene. >> Alright Chad, this is my third time doing this show. I was at the first one back in 2014, last year we did the Cube there; every year it's like 'oh wait, there's this cool new technology; containers, maybe, how's Pivotal going to deal with that? This year, wait, Kubernetes, cloud natives everywhere. Maybe give us your point of view, as to how this fits in. >> So I feel like I'm a kid in a candy store. My job inside Pivotal is to drive PKS. Pivotal Container Service, that's built on top of Kubernetes. And there's a lot of Kubernetes action occurring here. If I had to net it out, I'd say a couple things. Number one, we've moved past the early hype cycle, and actually went through several hype cycles that blew up, so Docker is going to take over the world, not correct. What turned out to be correct is Docker would become the container standard, right? >> It's Mobi now, right? >> Right. Then, we went in to the battles of different cluster container managers. It's Swarm, it's Mesos Marathon, it's Kubernetes and there were lots of others, and then you get through that early hype period and things settle down to the point where they're actually productive, and everyone now kind of agrees, that Kubernetes is the standard container cluster manager for broad sets of workloads, great. Now the debate is Cloud Foundry, the structured PaaS-World, right? The structured platform opinionated, versus the little more wild west and open eco system of Kubernetes, and then early stage Kubernetes projects, like Istio and others, right? I think this has two chapters now, in front of us. Number one, and this is my focus I think for the next few years, is how do we make Kubernetes simple enough, easy enough, and frankly, enterprise ready. Not that it's not ready today, but a lot of Kubernetes projects that our customers are all over the map, difficult to sustain. We want to bring a lot of the lessons learned over the years of Cloud Foundry to Kubernetes. And I'm happy to say, that just a couple days ago, we released PKS 1.O.2 and 1.1, which we haven't announced the date but we've always said that we're going to be in constant compatibility with GKE, and the core Kubernetes. Since GKE shortly will have Kubernetes 1.10 support you can expect a 1.1 of PKS. So mission number one is make Kubernetes a great platform, and I am determined and stubborn, and will make PKS the best enterprise platform for customers that are putting workloads on Kubernetes. That said, Kubernetes isn't steady still and neither is the ecosystem. And you can see that there's a lot of discussion over what is the intersection between Cloud Foundry and Kubernetes? I think that over time it's inevitable that these things come together more. But again, I think that's going to occur over years. Not in a heartbeat. >> And even, I've been at the Kubernetes show and have been at this show a few times, it's not a monolithic stack, we're building distributed, lots of different pieces. You go to the Cloud Foundry, I'm sorry, the show that's Kub-Con, there's so many different projects there, I mean Istio was all the buzz, talk about the service national, there's all these little pieces there. And at this show, we're talking about Zip Car came and talked about they love everything in this eco system. They don't use some of the core components, but they use all these other pieces. As you and I've talked many times, Chad, people go read, Chad writes a little bit about some of these things to give you all the details there, but this stuff's pretty complicated. There's some in the Kubernetes community that's like it's never going to get simple. Remember when we thought Cloud computing was simple? And if you've been to any Amazon show and you go through, it is more complicated to configure a compute instance at Amazon, than it is to buy a Dell server these days. Because there's more options out there. Look, customers need options, many of them want things to be packaged and serviced and buy it as a service, but some love to put those pieces together and it's a spectrum and I loved at this show, Google and Microsoft up on stage, talking, 'hey, open communities, collaborating together'. Maybe not merging everything, but working together, understanding where things fit and it's not one or the other, it's many customers will choose both. >> You and I are both nerds at heart, I hope you don't take offense to that. >> I've already been doing Star Wars quotes this week. >> I wear it with pride. I'm always fascinated by the technology itself, but one thing that's been really cool about my experience alongside, and now inside Pivotal, and you can see it here at the CF Summit, is that the Pivotal obsession, is about the customer and the outcome. We build a platform that is an essential part of that, but teaching the world how to build better software is a noble mission. And the thing that's the most exciting for me is actually when the customers talk. So if you went to any of the customer discussions, did you see any of them, did you see the T-Mobile one? >> I saw T-Mobile up on the key note, I actually did an interview with T-Mobile. Had an interview with US Air Force. >> The Air Force One is amazing. >> Awesome. >> It's fascinating, from a technological standpoint, to say how do you use these tools? But it's the story of what you do with it, that actually matters so much more. I'll leave the, no, I won't leave the customer name out of it. So in talking with the T-Mobile crew, they love the Pivotal application service. So they are using it, it's an essential part of how T-Mobile works. They talked about it on stage, that's why I don't mind talking about it. And if you ask them, it's not an or. They also have massive projects, massive application workloads, that don't fit in PaaS, but are Docker images, they're currently doing some strange stuff with Swarm, and blah blah. And they're like 'Man, if you guys can basically deliver a great platform that we can consume instead of trying to construct and maintain, we trust you, you iterate with us, you work with us, we'll be able to focus more on the outcome. The thing that I'm actually going to be the most curious to hear feedback from customers over the next couple of years, is how do they navigate what workloads are best put into Kubernetes, how does Kubernetes sets of ecosystems start to not calcify, but firm up, right? It's going to be loose. But it will start to align more over time. >> Yeah our research team actually calls it, we need to get to a place where it's plastic. It should be not just scalable up and down but side to side a little bit more too. Once you have it, you can be able to go. >> Figuring out over time, and helping, with customers, figure out 'Hey, this is a Kafka or Crunchy data.' Post grass instance, or it's an ISV stack, or it's an application they've home grown, but they don't want it fully compartmentalized and put on paths, and they decide that they want to put it on Kubernetes, awesome. What is the value and the return of doing further work on that app to really make it Cloud Native, pull out all config, turn it into sets of small micro services, and then it's better fit for the PaaS part of PCF. Figuring out that formula over the next few years is going to be really cool. >> You mentioned culture. And that's been something you and I, Chad, lived through. It was the server vs the storage vs the network and the virtualization admin, and then the cloud admin. I talked to the US Air Force guy, and he was like, 'We actually have the people take off their uniforms, because rank would have a certain meaning inside there.' But you've got the Devs, you've got OPS, you've got still the infrastructure pieces on tub, what are you seeing from the customers you're talking to; what are some of the big challenges that are slowing people back from reaching this Utopia of fast, fast, fast, agile, inter-operable, wonderful times? >> How do I answer that one? That's a loaded question, brother. The biggest impediment is human nature. It's these damn humans, if we could just get all the humans out. >> Well everybody's mine, mine, mine. >> We'll go to low code, no code, eliminate all the humans, it'll be dreamy. >> I did one of those interviews today, too. Absolutely, you don't need all programmers, the business people can do it. >> The human tendency for control, and the need for control, I think it's probably deep seated in our, we're living in a world where we know intellectually that we don't have control over everything, but we hate that. Because we want to create control in our lives, that basically is the thing that sets up boundaries between people, and they get really hung up on their function. That's not new, the word's changed, like you said. Used to be server people vs storage people. Then it was virtualization teams vs the silo teams. And now it's the intersection of the DEV team and the DevOps team, the operations team. How do they intersect? The places where they're the most successful, is that they don't get hung up on that and the people blend the roles. Now the trick is, how do you do that in a big company? I wrote a blog, I'm not trying to advertise, virtualgeek.io I wrote a blog on this which was a synthesis of all the customer dialogues I've been having over the last few years. And the pattern I've seen that is most successful, is actually to recognize that there are stacks, and the stacks, I don't mean this particular technology choice, but the way that the whole stack driven by the business and the application and then the abstraction it sits on, and then you have to build your actual operations team underneath that. That creates a whole operational model which in itself is a stack, and just so it doesn't sound like I'm describing something that's nonsensical, a stack can be in big enterprises, there's a main frame based app, that's running on a main frame, that's being supported by a main frame operations team, and then right beside it there's another stack, which is all X86 workloads that are static. So they don't need an IAS they just need to run on a kernel mode VM abstraction. And then under that you've got the team that supports. Then you've got the workload that can be containerized, and don't need a full blown PaaS. And then you've got another one, which is a full blown application service model. Each one of those stacks ends up with different people, processes and tools, because they're mapped to the cultural operational model of that stack. And the thing that I'm trying to guide customers when I'm talking to them is, don't reject that; that's actually reality. Yes you should move as much as you can to the highest order abstraction you can. That's goodness and it pays dividends all the way down the stack. But don't go and say, that this workload, by definition has to go there. Or because you operate this way in this stack and this group operates this way, that by definition you're stupid and they're smart. The other rule is that- >> Chad, the answer to everything is server-less. >> By the way, I should have said that's another abstraction even to the right of the application service model. So the thing I've found, is a key kind of pattern of good, is that between the stacks, people and process are not allowed to transverse them, because the process is linked to how you operate. The only thing that goes between them, because in the end, for any customer, the stuff that touches all of those, is to become religious about one thing, which is that API's and data, and how those transit, those different stacks, that you have to be very clear on. Do you know what I mean? On the blog I drew a picture, but it was terrible. It was a terrible drawing. >> I've done whiteboards with you, Chad, I understand. Great, so. Sound's like you've got your hands full. Lots of us read the S1, so Pivotal's marching towards an IPO. You've only been there a very short time, you've know Pivotal since the beginning and all the pieces since Greenplum's part of the MC, Cloud Foundry part of VMware. Anything that you've learned since you've been inside Pivotal now that there's misconceptions? One of the things I always find is, we always learn about something the first time and then don't think it changes. >> It's funny actually, that's an insightful question. Having joined the team, it's weird because to many of them, I'm new, I'm a new Pivot. But to many of them they know that I've always been there. And I was reminding some of the originals, the crazy tortured path that we've taken to get to today. The original effort was hey, people are doing new things data's at the core of it. And that was the trigger for the Greenplum acquisition. And several of the people who are the senior leaders of Pivotal now came in through that. And then Paul Maritz was the CEO of VMware at the time, hey, I'm seeing people build new apps in new ways, by the way there's this crazy team inside VMware working on this thing called Cloud Foundry. And they were like a red headed stepchild. That's not PC, but like a black sheep? Or I don't know what metaphor you want to use, but basically they were working on something that had nothing to do with kernel mode virtualization at its core. >> Yeah it was a Cloud native peg in a VM square. >> And at the time, VMware isn't what they are now too. And then people forget this but I wrote a blog about it, so it's on the internet permanently. There was a Greenplum project, which was a great idea, that says people want to collaborate with data sets, and data scientists want to work together and it's really hard. Let's build a thing, which is like a social media portal, for Greenplum which was called Chorus. And the Chorus project was completely sideways. And they were like we don't know how we're going to get this thing on track on time, and they asked around the Valley, and people said hey, you should go talk to these guys, Pivotal Labs, up in San Francisco. What they do is they help people when they're stuck. They went, and I remember when Bill Cook and Scott Yara came back to Hoppington and said 'This was awesome, they've changed the way we think about how we build software, we think we should buy them.' And that got added, I remember when Paul Maritz said 'Spring is available.' it's like the most widely used modern JAVA framework, and that was also stuff in Spring Rif. All of these weird bits, in essence became the essence of Pivotal. You know what I've learned through that? Is these journeys are not in a straight line. Everyone's. >> Like our careers, Chad. >> Like our careers man. That's the first part, the second thing is, and this is going to be a challenge for Pivotal, honest, if we're very transparent as always, is Pivotal's brand is now so linked with Pivotal Cloud Foundry. And that's a good thing, like those customers raving about the business outcomes that they are getting. But inside Pivotal, the strategic change, the strategic pivot ha ha ha, to do a full embrace of Kubernetes versus the traditional opinionated versus plastic debates, I wouldn't say that we have 100% of the company fully embracing it yet, because companies are themselves, organic. But across the vast majority of the company it is something understood that it is an imperative for us. If we want to help the customers and the world build better software, we've got to do it for stuff that fits into PaaS, and stuff that doesn't. And so I've learned over the last few weeks about how many people share that passion that I have, and I think we can make something awesome with PKS. >> Alright, well with that Chad, we'll have to leave it there for now, looking forward to seeing you at more events. Congrats on the new role, I'm sure if people haven't already, Chad does have a new site for his blog, virtualgeek.io instead of the previous one. Chad, always a pleasure. Got the Cube here at Cloud Foundry Summit, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks for watching the Cube. (upbeat tempo)