(mumbling) >> Voiceover: Covering Sapphire now. Headline sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform as a service. With support from Console Inc., the cloud internet company. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> We are here live at SAP Sapphire. This is SiliconANGLE Media's The Cube. It's our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal to noise and want to do a shoutout to our sponsors SAP HANA Cloud and Console Inc. at console cloud, connecting the clouds together. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Peter Burris. Our next guest is Reggie Jackson, winner, athlete, tech athlete now, entrepreneur, overall great guy, and a cube alumni. Four years ago, we interviewed him here at SAP Sapphire. Welcome back, Reggie, to The Cube. Thanks for coming on. John, thank you very much. It's good to be here with old friends. We were havin' a little conversation about baseball there, but good to see you guys. Yeah, and obviously, the baseball, we were just talkin' about the whole fisticuffs and the glee of the grand slam walk-off. >> Reggie: Good stuff, good stuff. >> It's a good pivot point in some of the things that you're workin' on in here, the conversations in the tech world, which is social media and that notion of celebrating in a world of Instagram and Snapchat and social media. Certainly, ya flip the bat, the views go up. But then, baseball has these (laughing) unwritten rules, right. So does corporations. And so we're now a new era. Is baseball safe now with these unwritten rules and should they maintain those, certain things that have kept the game in balance? But yet with social media, the players are their own brand. And you certainly were a brand, even back in your day, which is a pioneer. What's your thoughts on that? >> You know John, Peter, I don't like the idea of someone going out of their way to promote their brand. Some of the great brands to me in history, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, the great Jim Brown, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan. And Michael Jordan would be a prominent example where technology and TV enhanced who he was. And he had someone behind him to enhance his brand, Nike, Phil Knight, who was a real pioneer. I'm not so in favor, I'm not in favor at all of someone manufacturing themselves as a brand. And I hear players talk about their brand and about trying to create something. If you're great, if you deserve it, I don't think Stephen Curry works on his brand. I think he works on bein' a great player. I think he works on bein' a great teammate. I think he does his best to maximize his skill set. And he's nothing but a gentleman along the way. He'll celebrate with joy once in awhile, with the Curry moves, which we've come to recognize. But for guys that talk about the manufacturing of their brand, there's something about it that's manufactured. It's not real, it's false. And I don't like it. I think it's okay, the Snapchats and the Google+ and all of the stuff, Twitter and Facebook and all that stuff, all of the things that go along with trying to create some hubbub, etc. I'm okay with that. >> So you're saying if it's not deserved. People are overplaying their hand before earning it. >> A lot of it, John, a lot of it. Joe Montana didn't work on his brand, he was great. Jim Brown didn't work on his brand, he was great. I don't want to use Jimmy Brown. I want to use Montana because even young people today will know Joe Montana. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, they're not about their brand. They're about being classy, being great, being part of a team, being a leader, presenting themselves as something that's respected in the NFL, across the United States. Go ahead, Pete. >> So even though it's cheaper to get your name out there, you still believe in let your performance speak for itself. >> You got to be real about it. Ya got to be who you are. If you're not a great player, get out of the way. Get out of the space. So manufacturing your brand. I played with the Yankees. I was in the era of Cosell and Billy Martin and George Steinbrenner. We won championships with the team. I was part of something that helped me become recognized. And so in our era, the Sandy Koufax's became brands because they were associated with greatness around them. They stood out and so they earned that tremendous brand. >> We were just watching Graig Nettles gettin' taken out by George Brett in that big game and also the pine tar, we kind of gettin' some good laughs at it. You look at the balance of personalities. Certainly, Brett and Nettles and your team and you had a great personality, winning championships. Worked together as a team. And so I want to ask you that question about the balance, about the in baseball, certainly, the unwritten rules are a legacy and that has worked. And now in a era of personalities, in some cases, people self-promoting themselves, people are questioning that. Your thoughts on that because that applies to business too 'cause tech athletes or business athletes have a team, there are some unwritten rules. Thoughts on this baseball debate about unwritten rules. >> Pete and John, I'll try to correlate it between some tech giants that have a brand. I just left a guy with a brand, Bill McDermott, that runs SAP. Even Hasso, the boss. The face now of SAP is Bill McDermott. Dapper, slender, stylish, bright. It comes across well. So maintaining that brand, to me, relates to SAP, bills a great image for it. He's stylish, he's smooth, he's smart. He's about people. He presents himself with care. So that is a brand. I don't think it's manufactured. That's who he is in real life. If you take a look, and I'll go back to Steph Curry because that name resonates and everyone recognize it. That style of cool, that style of control, that style of team and care. And he presents to us all that he cares about us, the fan, his team, his family. And so those are things and I think you can go from the tech world. Bill Gates had a brand. Brilliant, somewhat reclusive, concerned about the world, concerned about the country, concerned about his company. And so that resonated it Microsoft because that's who he really was. Some of the people today don't really recognize that Jobs was thrown out of Apple. He was pushed out. All of his brilliance, which was marketing. And the gentleman there that really was the mind for the company, Steve Wozniak, happens to be here at SAP Sapphire. Today, I think he speaks. But those brands were real, not manufactured. And so, in today's world, I think you can manufacture a brand. And then all of a sudden, it'll crumble. It'll go away in the future. But the great brands of whether it's Jackie Robinson or whether it's Jack Welch or whether it's George Steinbrenner and the Yankee brand, those brands were real. They were not manufactured. Those guys were eccentric. They were brilliant. Go ahead. >> And also, they work hard. And I want to point out a comment you made yesterday here at the event. You were asked a question up on stage about that moment when you hit the home runs. I think we talked about it last time. I don't necessarily want to talk about the home runs. But you made a comment I'd like you to expand on and share with the audience. 'Cause you said, "I worked hard," but that day during warm-ups, you had batting practice. You made a comment that you were in the zone. So working hard and being great as it leads up to that. But also, in the moment, 'cause that's a theme these days, in the moment, being ready and prepared. Share your thoughts on what you meant by you had a great batting practice and you just felt it. >> I'm going to take it to what you say is in the moment. I remember when I was talkin' about it yesterday, which you reference to, when I had such a fantastic batting practice. I walked by a coupla sports writers in that era. Really well-known guys, Dave Anderson, New York Times. I can't think of his name right now, but it'll come to me, of the Daily News. It was like hey man. >> John: You were rockin' it out there. >> I kind of hope I didn't leave it out here. (laughing) That was in the moment and at the same time, >> I mean, you were crushing it. >> Yes, when the game started, I got back in that moment. I got back in what was live, what was now, what was going on. Certainly, I think our world now with the instant gratification of sending out a message or tweeting to someone or whatever certainly in the moment is about what our youth is and who we are today as a country, as a universe. >> But you didn't make that up. You worked hard, but you pulled it together in the moment. >> A comment with that is I went and did something with ESPN earlier this year in San Francisco, in Oakland with Stephen Curry. They said, "Reggie, we want ya to come up "and watch his practice, his pre-game." And it was very similar to your batting practice, where people come out and watch, etc. And so I was looking forward to it and I like to go to the games about an hour and a half or two hours early so I can see warm-up and see some of the guys and say hello. And I got a chance to watch Steph Curry. I know his dad. And happened to be the first time I went this year, the dad, Carolina, the Panthers were in town. Not the Panthers. Come on, help me, help me, help me. >> Peter: The Wizards? >> No, no, no, the Carolina. >> Peter: Carolina Panthers. >> The Carolina Hornets. >> John: Hornets. >> Were there and I know his dad, Dell Curry. And we talked a little bit. But then, Steph came out and I watched him. And I watched the dribbling exhibition. I watched the going between the legs and behind the back and the fancy passing, etc. And I watched the shots, the high-arcing threes, the normal trajectory threes, the high shots off the backboard and things like that that he did. The left-handed shots, the right-handed shots. And the guy asked me what I thought of the show. And I said, "Well, it's a cool show, "but I'm going to see all that tonight." And me watching him, the behind the backs, the between the legs, the passes, the high-arching shots from three, the high-arching touches off the glass. He does all that. >> John: He brought it into the game. >> Yeah, I said so, (laughing) >> Peter: That is his game. >> It's not a show, but that's his game. >> So Reggie, you did an interesting promotion, Reggie's Garage, where you bought a virtual reality camera and you created a really nice show of your garage demonstrating your love >> Reggie: 360. >> Peter: of cars, 360. Talk a little bit about that. And then if ya get a second, imagine what baseball's going to be like as that technology becomes available and how some of the conversation that we're having about authenticity, the fan coming into the game. >> An experience. >> Is going to change baseball. Start with the garage and how that went and then how ya think that's going to translate into baseball, if you've had any thoughts on that. >> In the technology that was used, certainly I enjoyed it. While I was doing it, I noticed where the cameras were in different spots. There was one on the floor of my car. There was one in the backseat. And then there was someone following us as closely as they could. But you could see everything. You'd see the shift and you could see my feet. It was like you were with me. When we did the 360 inside the garage as well, you could listen to me and then you could use your finger and spin around. And they had these special headset and special glasses that you could look around, just with your headset on, and see all around the room. Behind you, in front of you. And so it's an experience that I think is going to become part of who we are as a nation, who we are as a people watching television, that you're going to really feel like you're in the room. I think it's going to be exciting. And I think it's going to be fun. And when you're talking about products, when you're talking about my website, if you will, with the focus on automotive parts, where a guy can go in and shop and get any part he wants for a vehicle, you really can build a complete car from my website. You can buy a frame. You can buy body parts. You can buy a horn, an engine, brakes, tires, grills, turn signals, the whole nine yards. And it gives you an experience through 360 video of really walking into the store, walking into the building, walking into the stadium and looking around to see the hot dog stand, see the dugout, see the pitcher and the hitter, to see the parts in the garage, to see the cars and take a look and view at everything that's there. >> How are players going to react to havin' the fans virtually right there with them? >> I don't think it bothers you. I don't think ya notice. I don't think they'll show anything that will affect the player that he's going to be concerned about. I think you'd have to be sensitive if they start microphoning, start micing up and then the looseness of the language would impact. So I don't think they'll go that far. But I do think the more that you can see, the more attractive the game becomes, the more interested that you can get people. When I broadcast baseball for ABC back in the 80's, I always tried to broadcast for the lady of the house, while she worked, while she cooked the meal, she didn't have time to think about a backup slider or the fastball that painted the outside corner, the changeup, etc., the sinker. I tried to broadcast for her interpretation so I could attract another fan to the game. So I think that the technology and the viewing that you'll see from behind home plate, from under the player's feet while he's running down the bases and the slides and things of that nature, Pete, I think are going to be exciting for the fan and it'll attract more fans, attract a new type of television it's going to produce, etc. So it's exciting. >> Reggie, thanks for comin' on The Cube again. Appreciate your time. I ask ya final two questions that I want to get your thoughts on. One is obviously the cars. Reggie's Garage is goin' great. And you shared with us last time on The Cube, it's on YouTube, about you when you grew up and decide football and baseball. But when you were growin' up, what was your favorite car? What was that car that you wanted that was out of reach? That car that was your hot rod? And then the second question is, we'll get to the second question. Answer that one first. What was you dream car at the time? How did ya get >> Reggie: The dream car >> John: hooked on this? >> at the time. I had a '55 Chevrolet that I bought from a buddy by the name of Ronny Fog. I don't even know if he's still around anymore. Out of Pennsylvania. I had $300 and my dad gave me $200. I'd saved up mine from workin' for my dad. But my dream car was I went to school with a guy named Wayne Gethman and another guy named Irwin Croyes. I don't know Wayne Gethman anymore. But from the age of 16, I reengaged with Irwin Croyes, who happens to be a business investing type guy in the city of Philadelphia, right where we're still from. He's a car collector. And he drove a '62 Corvette and so did Wayne Gethman. And I always wanted one. And I now happen to have four. (laughing) >> He who get the most toys wins. Final question, 'cause you're such a legend and you're awesome and you're doin' so much work. And you're very active, engaged, appreciate that. Advice to young athletes coming up, whether they're also in business or a tech athlete or a business athlete. But the sports athletes today got travel ball, you got all this stuff goin' on. The idols like Stephen Curry are lookin' great. Great role models now emerging. What advice do you give them? >> John's got a freshman in high school. I got a junior in high school. What would ya say to 'em? >> You know, I'll tell ya. When you're young, the people you want to listen to are Mom and Dad. No one, and I'll say this to any child from the age of eight or nine years old, five, six years old to 17, 18, 19, 20, all the way up, now my daughter's 25. All the way up to the end of your parents' days. No one cares for you more than your mother or your father. Any parent, whether it's a job or whether their success in life, number one in that man or woman, mom or dad, number one in their life is their children. And so for kids, I say if there's any person you're going to listen to for advice in any path you want to walk down, it's the one that your parents talk to you about or how they show you. That is what I would leave as being most important. For kids, anything, idea that you have that you believe you can do, whether it's the athlete like Stephen Curry that has created shots and done things on the basketball court that he envisioned, that he thought about. Or whether it's the next Steve Jobs who happens to be Mark Zuckerman, who I don't know Mark is 30 years old yet. >> John: He just turned 30. >> It's an idea. He's born around the same time. He's born this week. His birthday is in this week. My birthday's tomorrow. >> John: Happy birthday. >> But thank you. Anything that you can think of in today's world of technology. With places like Silicon Valley where they take dreams and create foundations for them. I had a dream about a website that would sell automotive parts and you could go to my site and buy anything for your car. We've got about 75,000 items now. We'll get to 180,000 in a few months. We'll get to a half a million as soon as my technology is ready for it. But we have things to pay attention to and look into and issues to make sure that we iron out that aren't there for our consumer, for ease of navigation, ease of consumption and purchasing. Any idea that you have, take time to dream. It's much more so than taking time to dream when I was a young kid. Because my father would say, "Stop daydreamin' "and wastin' time." >> John: Get to work. >> Reggie: In today's world, for our children, I say take time to create a vision or to create something new. And go to someone that's in the tech world and they'll figure out a way of helping you manifest it into something that's a reality. >> Listen to your parents, kids. And folks out there, dream, build the foundation, go for it. Reggie Jackson, congratulations for being a Cube alumni again, multi-return. >> Peter: Thank you very much. >> John: Appreciate it. Congratulate on all your continued success. You're a legend. Great to have you on. And thanks so much for comin' on The Cube. >> Peter: And happy 70th birthday. >> John, Pete, always a pleasure. >> John: Happy birthday. >> Thank you very much. >> Have some cake for Reggie. It's The Cube, live here in Orlando. Bringin' all the action here on The Cube. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris with Reggie Jackson. We'll be right back. (electronic music)

>> Is and who we are today as as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations Reggie Jackson, (inspirational music) you are a CUBE alumni. (upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering Splunk.Conf19. Brought to you by Splunk. >> Okay, welcome back everyone it's theCUBE's live coverage here in Las Vegas for Splunk.Conf19. I am John Furrier host of theCUBE. It's the 10th Anniversary of Splunk's .Conf user conference. Our 7th year covering it. It's been quite a ride, what a wave. Splunk keeps getting stronger and better, adding more features, and has really become a powerhouse from a third party security standpoint. We got a C-SO in theCUBE on theCUBE today. Chief Information Security, John Frushour Deputy Chief (mumbles) New York-Presbyterian The Award Winner from the Data to Everywhere Award winner, welcome by theCube. >> Thank you, thank you. >> So first of all, what is the award that you won? I missed the keynotes, I was working on a story this morning. >> Frushour: Sure, sure. >> What's the award? >> Yeah, the Data Everything award is really celebrating using Splunk kind of outside its traditional use case, you know I'm a security professional. We use Splunk. We're a Splunk Enterprise Security customer. That's kind of our daily duty. That's our primary use case for Splunk, but you know, New York Presbyterian developed the system to track narcotic diversion. We call it our medication analytics platform and we're using Splunk to track opioid diversion, slash narcotic diversions, same term, across our enterprise. So, looking for improper prescription usage, over prescription, under prescription, prescribing for deceased patients, prescribing for patients that you've never seen before, superman problems like taking one pill out of the drawer every time for the last thirty times to build up a stash. You know, not resupplying a cabinet when you should have thirty pills and you only see fifteen. What happened there? Everything's data. It's data everything. And so we use this data to try to solve this problem. >> So that's (mumbles) that's great usage we'll find the drugs, I'm going to work hard for it. But that's just an insider threat kind of concept. >> Frushour: Absolutely. >> As a C-SO, you know, security's obviously paramount. What's changed the most? 'Cause look at, I mean, just looking at Splunk over the past seven years, log files, now you got cloud native tracing, all the KPI's, >> Frushour: Sure. >> You now have massive volumes of data coming in. You got core business operations with IOT things all instrumental. >> Sure, sure. >> As a security offer, that's a pretty big surface area. >> Yeah. >> How do you look at that? What's your philosophy on that? >> You know, a lot of what we do, and my boss, the C-SO (mumbles) we look at is endpoint protection and really driving down to that smaller element of what we complete and control. I mean, ten, fifteen years ago information security was all about perimeter control, so you've got firewalls, defense and depth models. I have a firewall, I have a proxy, I have an endpoint solution, I have an AV, I have some type of data redaction capability, data masking, data labeling capability, and I think we've seen.. I don't think security's changed. I hear a lot of people say, "Oh, well, information security's so much different nowadays." No, you know, I'm a military guy. I don't think anything's changed, I think the target changed. And I think the target moved from the perimeter to the endpoint. And so we're very focused on user behavior. We're very focused on endpoint agents and what people are doing on their individual machines that could cause a risk. We're entitling and providing privilege to end users today that twenty years ago we would've never granted. You know, there was a few people with the keys to the kingdom, and inside the castle keep. Nowadays everybody's got an admin account and everybody's got some level of privilege. And it's the endpoint, it's the individual that we're most focused on, making sure that they're safe and they can operate effectively in hospitals. >> Interviewer: What are some of the tactical things that have changed? Obviously, the endpoint obviously shifted, so some tactics have to change probably again. Operationally, you still got to solve the same problem: attacks, insider threats, etc. >> Frushour: Yeah. >> What are the tactics? What new tactics have emerged that are critical to you guys? >> Yeah, that's a tough question, I mean has really anything changed? Is the game really the game? Is the con really the same con? You look at, you know, titans of security and think about guys like Kevin Mitnick that pioneered, you know, social engineering and this sort of stuff, and really... It's really just convincing a human to do something that they shouldn't do, right? >> Interviewer: Yeah. >> I mean you can read all these books about phone freaking and going in and convincing the administrative assistant that you're just late for meeting and you need to get in through that special door to get in that special room, and bingo. Then you're in a Telco closet, and you know, you've got access. Nowadays, you don't have to walk into that same administrative assistant's desk and convince 'em that you're just late for the meeting. You can send a phishing email. So the tactics, I think, have changed to be more personal and more direct. The phishing emails, the spear phishing emails, I mean, we're a large healthcare institution. We get hit with those types of target attacks every day. They come via mobile device, They come via the phishing emails. Look at the Google Play store. Just, I think, in the last month has had two apps that have had some type of backdoor or malicious content in them that got through the app store and got onto people's phones. We had to pull that off people's phones, which wasn't pretty. >> Interviewer: Yeah. >> But I think it's the same game. It's the same kind to convince humans to do stuff that they're not supposed to do. But the delivery mechanism, the tactical delivery's changed. >> Interviewer: How is Splunk involved? Cause I've always been a big fan of Splunk. People who know me know that I've pretty much been a fan boy. The way they handle large amounts of data, log files, (mumbles) >> Frushour: Sure. >> and then expand out into other areas. People love to use Splunk to bring in their data, and to bring it into, I hate to use the word data leg but I mean, Just getting... >> Yeah >> the control of the data. How is data used now in your world? Because you got a lot of things going on. You got healthcare, IOT, people. >> Frushour: Sure, sure. >> I mean lives are on the line. >> Frushour: Lives are on the line, yeah. >> And there's things you got to be aware of and data's key. What is your approach? >> Well first I'm going to shamelessly plug a quote I heard from (mumbles) this week, who leads the security practice. She said that data is the oxygen of AI, and I just, I love that quote. I think that's just a fantastic line. Data's the oxygen of AI. I wish I'd come up with it myself, but now I owe her a royalty fee. I think you could probably extend that and say data is the lifeline of Splunk. So, if you think about a use case like our medication analytics platform, we're bringing in data sources from our time clock system, our multi-factor authentication system, our remote access desktop system. Logs from our electronic medical records system, Logs from the cabinets that hold the narcotics that every time you open the door, you know, a log then is created. So, we're bringing in kind of everything that you would need to see. Aside from doing something with actual video cameras and tracking people in some augmented reality matrix whatever, we've got all the data sources to really pin down all the data that we need to pin down, "Okay, Nurse Sally, you know, you opened that cabinet on that day on your shift after you authenticated and pulled out this much Oxy and distributed it to this patient." I mean, we have a full picture and chain of everything. >> Full supply chain of everything. >> We can see everything that happens and with every new data source that's out there, the beauty of Splunk is you just add it to Splunk. I mean, the Splunk handles structured and unstructured data. Splunk handles cis log fees and JSON fees, and there's, I mean there's just, it doesn't matter You can just add that stream to Splunk, enrich those events that were reported today. We have another solution which we call the privacy platform. Really built for our privacy team. And in that scenario, kind of the same data sets. We're looking at time cards, we're looking at authentication, we're looking at access and you visited this website via this proxy on this day, but the information from the EMR is very critical because we're watching for people that open patient records when they're not supposed to. We're the number five hospital in the country. We're the number one hospital in the state of New York. We have a large (mumbles) of very important people that are our patients and people want to see those records. And so the privacy platform is designed to get audit trails for looking at all that stuff and saying, "Hey, Nurse Sally, we just saw that you looked at patient Billy's record. That's not good. Let's investigate." We have about thirty use cases for privacy. >> Interviewer: So it's not in context of what she's doing, that's where the data come in? >> That's where the data come in, I mean, it's advanced. Nurse Sally opens up the EMR and looks at patient Billy's record, maybe patient Billy wasn't on the chart, or patient Billy is a VIP, or patient Billy is, for whatever reason, not supposed to be on that docket for that nurse, on that schedule for that nurse, we're going to get an alarm. The privacy team's going to go, "Oh, well, were they supposed to look at that record?" I'm just giving you, kind of, like two or three uses cases, but there's about thirty of them. >> Yeah, sure, I mean, celebrities whether it's Donald Trump who probably went there at some point. Everyone wants to get his taxes and records to just general patient care. >> Just general patient care. Yeah, exactly, and the privacy of our patients is paramount. I mean, especially in this digital age where, like we talked about earlier, everyone's going after making a human do something silly, right? We want to ensure that our humans, our nurses, our best in class patient care professionals are not doing something with your record that they're not supposed to. >> Interviewer: Well John, I want to hear your thoughts on this story I did a couple weeks ago called the Industrial IOT Apocalypse: Now or Later? And the provocative story was simply trying to raise awareness that malware and spear phishing is just tactics for that. Endpoint is critical, obviously. >> Sure. >> You pointed that out, everyone kind of knows that . >> Sure. >> But until someone dies, until there's a catastrophe where you can take over physical equipment, whether it's a self-driving bus, >> Frushour: Yeah. >> Or go into a hospital and not just do ransom ware, >> Frushour: Absolutely. >> Actually using industrial equipment to kill people. >> Sure. >> Interviewer: To cause a lot of harm. >> Right. >> This is an industrial, kind of the hacking kind of mindset. There's a lot of conversations going on, not enough mainstream conversations, but some of the top people are talking about this. This is kind of a concern. What's your view on this? Is it something that needs to be talked about more of? Is it just BS? Should it be... Is there any signal there that's worth talking about around protecting the physical things that are attached to them? >> Oh, absolutely, I mean this is a huge, huge area of interest for us. Medical device security at New York Presbyterian, we have anywhere from about eighty to ninety thousand endpoints across the enterprise. Every ICU room in our organization has about seven to ten connected devices in the ICU room. From infusion pumps to intubation machines to heart rate monitors and SPO2 monitors, all this stuff. >> Interviewer: All IP and connected. >> All connected, right. The policy or the medium in which they're connected changes. Some are ZP and Bluetooth and hard line and WiFi, and we've got all these different protocols that they use to connect. We buy biomedical devices at volume, right? And biomedical devices have a long path towards FDA certification, so a lot of the time they're designed years before they're fielded. And when they're fielded, they come out and the device manufacturer says, "Alright, we've got this new widget. It's going to, you know, save lives, it's a great widget. It uses this protocol called TLS 1.0." And as a security professional I'm sitting there going, "Really?" Like, I'm not buying that but that's kind of the only game, that's the only widget that I can buy because that's the only widget that does that particular function and, you know, it was made. So, this is a huge problem for us is endpoint device security, ensuring there's no vulnerabilities, ensuring we're not increasing our risk profile by adding these devices to our network and endangering our patients. So it's a huge area. >> And also compatible to what you guys are thinking. Like I could imagine, like, why would you want a multi-threaded processor on a light bulb? >> Frushour: Yeah. >> I mean, scope it down, turn it on, turn it off. >> Frushour: Scope it down for its intended purpose, yeah, I mean, FDA certification is all about if the device performs its intended function. But, so we've, you know, we really leaned forward, our CSO has really leaned forward with initiatives like the S bomb. He's working closely with the FDA to develop kind of a set of baseline standards. Ports and protocols, software and services. It uses these libraries, It talks to these servers in this country. And then we have this portfolio that a security professional would say, "Okay, I accept that risk. That's okay, I'll put that on my network moving on." But this is absolutely a huge area of concern for us, and as we get more connected we are very, very leaning forward on telehealth and delivering a great patient experience from a mobile device, a phone, a tablet. That type of delivery mechanism spawns all kinds of privacy concerns, and inter-operability concerns with protocol. >> What's protected. >> Exactly. >> That's good, I love to follow up with you on that. Something we can double down on. But while we're here this morning I want to get back to data. >> Frushour: Sure. >> Thank you, by the way, for sharing that insight. Something I think's really important, industrial IOT protection. Diverse data is really feeds a lot of great machine learning. You're only as good as your next blind spot, right? And when you're doing pattern recognition by using data. >> Frushour: Absolutely. >> So data is data, right? You know, telecraft, other data. Mixing data could actually be a good thing. >> Frushour: Sure, sure. >> Most professionals would agree to that. How do you look at diverse data? Because in healthcare there's two schools of thought. There's the old, HIPAA. "We don't share anything." That client privacy, you mentioned that, to full sharing to get the maximum out of the AI or machine learning. >> Sure. >> How are you guys looking at that data, diverse data, the sharing? Cause in security sharing's good too, right? >> Sure, sure, sure. >> What's your thoughts on sharing data? >> I mean sharing data across our institutions, which we have great relationships with, in New York is very fluid at New York Presbyterian. We're a large healthcare conglomerate with a lot of disparate hospitals that came as a result of partnership and acquisition. They don't all use the same electronic health record system. I think right now we have seven in play and we're converging down to one. But that's a lot of data sharing that we have to focus on between seven different HR's. A patient could move from one institution to the next for a specialty procedure, and you got to make sure that their data goes with them. >> Yeah. >> So I think we're pretty, we're pretty decent at sharing the data when it needs to be shared. It's the other part of your question about artificial intelligence, really I go back to like dedication analytics. A large part of the medication analytics platform that we designed does a lot of anomaly detections, anomaly detection on diversion. So if we see that, let's say you're, you know, a physician and you do knee surgeries. I'm just making this up. I am not a clinician, so we're going to hear a lot of stupidity here, but bare with me. So you do knee surgeries, and you do knee surgeries once a day, every day, Monday through Friday, right? And after that knee surgery, which you do every day in cyclical form, you prescribe two thousand milligrams of Vicodin. That's your standard. And doctors, you know, they're humans. Humans are built on patterns. That's your pattern. Two thousand milligrams. That's worked for you; that's what you prescribe. But all of the sudden on Saturday, a day that you've never done a knee surgery in your life for the last twenty years, you all of a sudden perform a very invasive knee surgery procedure that apparently had a lot of complications because the duration of the procedure was way outside the bounds of all the other procedures. And if you're kind of a math geek right now you're probably thinking, "I see where he's going with this." >> Interviewer: Yeah. >> Because you just become an anomaly. And then maybe you prescribe ten thousand milligrams of Vicodin on that day. A procedure outside of your schedule with a prescription history that we've never seen before, that's the beauty of funneling this data into Splunk's ML Toolkit. And then visualizing that. I love the 3D visualization, right? Because anybody can see like, "Okay, all this stuff, the school of phish here is safe, but these I've got to focus on." >> Interviewer: Yeah. >> Right? And so we put that into the ML Toolkit and then we can see, "Okay, Dr. X.." We have ten thousand, a little over ten thousand physicians across New York Presbyterian. Doctor X right over here, that does not look like a normal prescriptive scenario as the rest of their baseline. And we can tweak this and we can change precision and we can change accuracy. We can move all this stuff around and say, "Well, let's just look on medical record number, Let's just focus on procedure type, Let's focus on campus location. What did they prescribe from a different campus?" That's anomalous. So that is huge for us, using the ML Toolkit to look at those anomalies and then drive the privacy team, the risk teams, the pharmacy analytics teams to say, "Oh, I need to go investigate." >> So, that's a lot of heavy lifting for ya? Let you guys look at data that you need to look at. >> Absolutely. >> Give ya a (mumbles). Final question, Splunk, in general, you're happy with these guys? Obviously, they do a big part of your data. What should people know about Splunk 2019, this year? And are you happy with them? >> Oh, I mean Splunk has been a great partner to New York Presbyterian. We've done so much incredible development work with them, and really, what I like to talk about is Splunk for healthcare. You know, we've created, we saw some really important problems in our space, in this article. But, we're looking, we're leaning really far forward into things like risk based analysis, peri-op services. We've got a microbial stewardship program, that we're looking at developing into Splunk, so we can watch that. That's a huge, I wouldn't say as big of a crisis as the opioid epidemic, but an equally important crisis to medical professionals across this country. And, these are all solvable problems, this is just data. Right? These are just events that happen in different systems. If we can get that into Splunk, we can cease the archaic practice of looking at spreadsheets, and look up tables and people spending days to find one thing to investigate. Splunk's been a great partner to us. The tool it has been fantastic in helping us in our journey to provide best in-class patient care. >> Well, congratulations, John Frushour, Deputy Chief Information Security Officer, New York Presbyterian. Thanks for that insight. >> You're welcome. >> Great (mumbles) healthcare and your challenge and your opportunity. >> Congratulations for the award winner Data to Everything award winner, got to get that slogan. Get used to that, it's two everything. Getting things done, he's a doer. I'm John Furrier, here on theCube doing the Cube action all day for three days. We're on day two, we'll be back with more coverage, after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> What are you? This's and who we are today? A za country as a university. Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni? >> No. >> Live from San Diego, California. It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem barkers. >> Welcome back to San Diego. Everybody who went to the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Volante, and I'm here with my co host Student of the day. One of our wall to wall coverage of Sisqo Live 2019 behind us is the definite zone. A lot of action here. A lot of the C c e E. Folks learning howto code infrastructure. A big trend in the business G written houses here is the senior vice president and general manager of the security business group Francisco. Gee, thanks for coming on the Cube. My pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. So we've been talking on the cube a lot about Cisco coming at it. Multi cloud, for example, from a position of strength, try to convince your customers that your networks air higher performance, more cost effective and very importantly, more secure, of course. And I mean everybody always wants more performance. They want lower costs. Security in many ways has begun to trump those other two attributes. They they become table stakes, security as well. But security is really number one. Now talk about that. Talk about the major trends that you're seeing. >> Well, of course, of course, security now is top of mind for everyone. Board level conversations, executive level conversations all the time. I think what ends up happening is in the past. We would think about it as network performance cost, etcetera security as a tangent kind of side conversation. Now, of course, it's built into everything that we do in the conversations that we have. And it's equally around performance, but also round simplicity, because security tends to be a little bit hard and lots of process. And how do you go through with compliance? Regulations were also folk. He's in a lot of effort on making it simple. >> Okay, so the big trendy, obviously, here's people talk about what you used to put all the money in the perimeter, hardened the perimeter. Now you can't dig a moat anymore. The queen leaves your castle. Yeah, it's a whole new paradigm. Yeah, So customers are realizing that it's a board level topic. Now, how is Cisco responding to that trend specifically? >> Well, quite frankly, what we're doing is taking that old perimeter and moving that perimeter to the appropriate spots Could be your branch. Now doing direct Internet access will move the perimeter to the branch. Could be your users. Your local mobile workforce will move the perimeter to surround those users and, of course, those applications that are sitting in the data center. Now, as they moved to and from the public cloud, we put segmentation, micro segmentation and follow them as well, to those perimeters are breaking down from one giant moat with the queen. Now we have lots and lots of little ones. >> So it's like the cubes do. You could bring it in exactly everywhere, everywhere built in. >> So you know what we know. It's a multi cloud world for customers today. One of the important pieces to help pull together the multi cloud is the SD land piece. Francisco, as a few diff different solutions in that space, an area. I was hoping you could explain that security piece of S t win, because people think of it so It's kind of like the old way, an opt or some of these other things. But security is such an important piece of that, you know, ever growing landscape. >> So you know, it's funny because people are adopting Ston for simplicity as well as lower costs, and the last thing we want to have forced people to do is to have tto bolt on various security solutions. Right then also, you know, the next day your network operations is complex again. So what we did last year was we took part of the security portfolio and built it directly into our on premises ston appliances so that you could take that ston deploy it. And so security is built in. That is a huge, huge market opportunity. And of course, since we also have a secure cloud platform, we're moving that same feature functionality into the clouds. So whether our customers want to secure their ston with technologies on Prem or in the cloud, Cisco has both ends >> covered wound. It ties into the whole development dev ops mentality and Christians appropriate here in the definite soon. But do you want to ask you how have organizations? However, there was security regimes or how are they evolving? How are they changing? It used to be okay. SEC ops. That's your problem, guys. It's your problem. And we know that doesn't work. Yes, a team effort. But talk about the organizational evolution that you're saying. >> We'll not only so the organizational effort. You were seeing a lot of the technology emerge and from an organization perspective, whether it's it's under a CEO or see. So that's a separate conversation. But from a technology perspective, they're getting heavily, heavily integrated. And that is now forcing network people to actually think about policy segmentation security muchmore than they were in the past and, conversely, security people starting to think about mobile devices and networking and things like that. So we're seeing this big blur across the organization, both from an operational perspective as well as processes and work flows. >> What about the role of data and analytics in terms of Howard informs you how that's evolving machine intelligence coming into play? How Cisco exploiting that? What's it going to >> mean for your customers? Well, as the industry leader in terms of security, we consume massive amounts of data. For example, we block 6,000,000,000 events per day. That's more than Google queries, right? We do 185,000,000,000 DNA s queries. That's 5% of the global Internet traffic. Of course, Ria's humans can't like calculate what's the good in the bad? So we rely heavily on machine learning, artificial intelligence and whatnot. We have the largest non government threat research group in the industry, and that's what they do day after day, looking for those needles in a haystack, thes threats in the sea of normal. >> And you can't do that with with alerts. I mean, just that way you've gotta have automation. So in his world of cloud, so so talk a little bit about the automation principles that you guys are done designing into your products. >> Well, security is one of the fields where not only do we have to calculate the alert, but we operate in the environment of false positives. You could turn on like we're going to protect you and block everything. But then also a lot of things that appear as threats actually weren't threats, those air, false positives. So our goal is to protect the enterprise and get zero false positive go all the way to the edge and the way we do that, of course, is not only tow, automate and say these are all your events, but we have to rank. Stack them in terms of importance. There's only a certain amount of time in the day, so you want to go to the most important, most critical event. Automate that, then go next the neck. So we automate but also ranks stack in the presence >> of false and do you see the day? Or maybe you're starting to get their ready where the machine actually acts as an agent for you and certainly, I'm sure a plugs, holes and things like that, but actually takes it one step further and makes decisions about what to go after. So >> in many cases, yes, particularly riel time around files and things like that in other cases? No, because there's a work floor flow there that says I'm actually not going to deploy those firewall >> rules >> until I test them and evaluate them and whatnot. So everything from rial time into probably >> aware you need a human and that you do, in the end, the Yeah, yeah, >> So in an ever 10 changing threat landscape. But, you know, how do you make sure you keep up? Cisco's made a number of acquisitions. How do you make it a seamless, you know, security environment for them, despite all of these various threats and attacks. >> So welcome to my day job studio. So essentially, we've done two things. We've taken all these assets, and we do accumulate and acquire the market leaders in the space. And the first thing that we do is integrate the back end. Though all those events I was telling you about, they're coming from all of these technologies, so we bring them all back so that we can focus on the efficacy. That is a big step, but that's what we do first. Then the second step, once that's done, is to integrate the front end so that the user, the customer, can sit there and go. Oh, I'm tracking an event. It came in through our email. It came in through a firewall, came through our end point and unify the front and experience. But the first thing we do is always on the back, >> so you get a lot of pressure from customers, obviously, because you are the network. You get a lot of pressure for them. But you in a position now, toe, actually lead the transformation with your customers. I mean, the whole paradigm shift, the mind, this shift. And what do you doing along those lines? >> So we are absolutely leading our customers were leading it and secure D A direct Internet access and SD win. The other thing that we've been investing heavily is in zero trust. So instead of just allowing everyone on the network and follow the threats we acquired Duo last year the leader in M F A. A and zero Trust. And now we're integrating that into the network so that we can also establish trust. But then block and verify. >> Craigie, I know you gotta jump, so thanks so much for your time. I recognize you. Thank you so much for coming. You're welcome. Great to have you. All right, keep it right to everybody. We'll be back with her next guess right after this short break, David, want a student at Lisa? Martin is also here. You watching the Cube from Cisco Live? San Diego back? >> No,

>> Narrator: Live from Nassau in the Bahamas. It's The Cube! Covering PolyCon 18. Brought to you by PolyMath. >> Welcome back everyone, we're live here in the Bahamas with The Cube's exclusive coverage of PolyCon 18, I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante, both co-founders of SiliconANGLE. We start our coverage of the crypto-currency ICO, blockchain, decentralized world internet that it is becoming. It's the beginning of our tour, 2018. Our next guest is Hartej Sawhney who's the advisor at Pink Sky Capital, but also the co-founder of Hosho.io. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you so much. >> Hey thanks for coming on. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks guys. >> We had a great chat last night, and you do some real good work. You're one of the smartest guys in the business. Got a great reputation. A lot of good stuff going on. So, take a minute to talk about who you are, what you're working on, what you're doing, and the projects you're involved in. >> So first of all, thank you so much for having me, it's really exciting to see the progress of high-quality content being created in the space. So my name is Hartej Sawhney. We have a team based in Las Vegas. I've been based in Las Vegas for about five years. But I was born and raised in central New Jersey, in Princeton. And my co-founder is Yo Sup Quan. We started this company about seven months ago and my co-founder's background was he's the co-founder of Coin Sighter in Exchange out of New York, which exited to Kraken. After that he started Launch Key which exited to Iovation. And prior to this company, my previous company was Zuldi, Z-U-L-D-I .com where we had a mobile point of sale system specifically for high volume food and beverage companies and businesses. So we were focused on Fintech and mobile point of sale and payment processing. So both of us have a unique background in both Fintech and cyber-security and my co-founder Yo, he's a managing partner of a crypto hedge fund named Pink Sky Capital. And he was doing diligence for Pink Sky, and he realized that the quality of the smart contracts he was seeing for deals that he wanted to participate as an investor in, and I'm an advisor in that hedge fund, we both realized that essentially the quality of these smart contracts is extremely low. And that there was nobody in this space that we saw laser focused on just blockchain security. And all the solutions that would be entailed in there. And so we began focusing on just auditing smart contracts, doing a line-by-line code review of each smart contract that's written, conducting a GAS analysis, and conducting a static analysis, making sure that the smart contract does what the white paper says, and then putting a seal of approval on that smart contract to mitigate risk. So that the code has not been changed once we've done an analysis of it, that there's no security vulnerabilities in this code, and that we can mitigate the risks for exchanges and for investors that someone has done a thorough code analysis of this. That there's no chance that this is going to be hacked, that money won't be stolen, money won't be lost, and that there's no chance of a security vulnerability on this. And we put our company's name and reputation on this. >> And what was the problem that is the alternative to that? Was there just poorly written code? Was it updated code? Was it gas was too expensive? They were doing off-chain transactions. I mean what are some of the dynamics that lead you guys down this path? I mean this makes sense. You're kind of underwriting the code, or you're ensuring it or I don't know what you call it, but essentially verifying it. What was the problem? And what were some of the use cases of problems? >> I would say that the underlying problem today in this whole industry, of the blockchain space, is that the most commonly found blockchain is Ethereum. The language behind Ethereum is called Solidity. Solidity is a brand new software language that very few people in the world are sufficient programmers in Solidity. On top of that, Solidity is updated, as a language on a weekly basis. So there are a very limited number of engineers in the world who are full-stack engineers, that have studied and understand Solidity, that have a security background, and have a QA mindset. Everything that I just said does exist on this Earth today and if it does, there's a chance that that person has made too much money to want to get out of bed. Because Ethereum's price has gone up. So the quality of smart contracts that we're seeing being written by even development shops, the developers building them are actually not full-stack engineers, they're web developers who have learned the language Solidity and so thus we believe that the quality of the code has been significantly low. We're finding lots of critical vulnerabilities. In fact, 100% of the time that Hosho has audited code for a smart contract, we have found at least a couple of vulnerabilities. Even as a second or the third auditor after other companies conduct an audit, we always find a vulnerability. >> And is it correct that Solidity is much more easy to work with than say, Bitcoin scripting language, so you can do a lot more with it, so you're getting a lot more, I don't want to say rogue code, but maybe that's what it is. Is that right? Is that the nature of the theory? >> Compared to Bitcoin script, yes. But compared to JavaScript, no. Because Fortune 500 companies have rooms full of Java engineers, Java developers. And now the newer blockchains are being written, are being written on in block JavaScript, right? So you have IBM's Hyperledger program, you have EOS, you have ICX, Cardano, Stellar, Waves, Neo, there's so many new projects that are coming, that all of them are flexing about the same thing. Including Rootstock, RSK. RSK is a project where they're allowing smart contracts to be tied to the Bitcoin blockchain for the first time ever. Right, so Fortune 500 companies may take advantage of the fact that they have Java developers to take advantage of already, that already work for them, who could easily write to a new blockchain, and possibly these new blockchains are more enterprise grade and able to take more institutional capital. But only time will tell. And us as the auditor, we want to see more code from these newer blockchains, and we want to see more developers actually put in commits. Because it's what matters the most, is where are the developers putting in commits and right now maximum developers are on the Ethereum blockchain. >> Is that, the numbers I mean. Just take a step there. So the theory of blockchain. Percentage of developers vis-a-vis other platforms percentages-- >> By far the most is on developed on Ethereum. >> And in terms of code, obviously the efficiencies that are not yet realized, 'cause there's not enough cycles of coding going on, it's evolution, right? >> Yes. >> Seems to be the problem, wouldn't you say? So a combination of full-stack developer requirements, >> Yes. >> To people who aren't proficient in all levels of the stack. >> Yes. >> Just are inefficient in the coding. It's not a ding on the developers, it's just they're writing code and they miss something, right? Or maybe they're not sufficient in the language-- >> It's a new language. The functions are being updated on a weekly basis, so sometimes you copied and pasted a part of another contract, that came from a very sophisticated project, so they'll say to us, well we copied and pasted this portion from EOS, so it should be great. But what that's leading to is either A, they're using a function that's now outdated, or B, by copying and pasting someone else's code from their smart contract, this smart contract is no longer doing what you intended it to do. >> So now Hartej, how much of your capability is human versus machine? >> Yeah I was going to ask that. >> ML, AI type stuff? >> So we're increasingly becoming automated, but because of the over, there's so much demand in the space. And we've had so much demand to consistently conduct audits, it's tough to pull my engineers away from conducting an audit to work on the tooling to automate the audit, right? And so we are building a lot of proprietary tooling to speed up the process, to automate conducting a GAS analysis, where we make sure you're not clogging up the blockchain by using too much GAS. Static analysis, we're trying to automate that as fast as possible. But what's a bit more difficult to automate, at least right now, is when we have a qualified full-stack engineer read the white paper or the source of truth and make sure the smart contract actually does it, that is, it's a bit longer tail where you're leveraging machine learning and AI to make that fully automated. (talking over each other) >> But maybe is that, I'm sorry John. Is that the long term model or do you think you can actually, I mean there's people that say augmented intelligence is going to be a combination of humans and machines, what do you think? >> I think it's going to be a combination for a long time. Every single day that we audit code, our process gets faster and faster and faster because once we find a vulnerability, finding that same vulnerability next time will be faster and easier and faster and easier. And so as time goes on, we see it as, since the bundle of our work today is ICOs, token generation events, there are ERC 20 tokens on the Ethereum blockchain. And we don't know how long this party will last. Like maybe in a couple years or a couple months, we have a big twist in the ICO space that the numbers will drastically go down. The long tail of Hosho's business for us, is to keep track of people writing smart contracts, period. But we think they are going to become more functional smart contracts where the entire business is on a smart contract and they've cut out sophisticated middle men. Right and it may be less ICOs, and in those cases I mean, if you're a publicly traded company, and you're going from R&D phase where you wrote a smart contract and now actually going to deploy it, I think the publicly traded company's going to do three to five audits. They're going to do multiple audits and take security as a very major concern. And in the space today, security is not being discussed nearly as much as it should. We have the best hedge funds cutting checks into companies, before the smart contract is even written, let alone audited. And so we're trying to partner with all the biggest hedge funds and tell the hedge funds to mandate that if you cut a check into a company that is going to do a token generation event, that they need to guarantee that they're going to at least value security, both in-house for the company and for the smart contract that's going to be written. >> How much do you charge for this? I mean just ballpark. Is it a range of purchase price, sales price? What's the average engagement go for, is it on a scope of work? Statement of work? Or is it license? I mean how does it work? >> So first it depends is it a penetration test of the website or the exchange? Penetration testing of exchanges are far more complex than just a website. Or if it's a smart contract audit, is it an ICO or is it a functional smart contract? In either case for the smart contract audit, we have to build a long set of custom tooling to attack each and every smart contract. So it's definitely very case-by-case. But a ballpark that we could maybe give is somewhere around the lines of 10 to 15 thousand dollars per 100 lines of functional code. And we ask for about three weeks of lead time for both a smart contract audit and a penetration test. And surprisingly in this space, some of the highest caliber companies and high caliber projects with the best teams, are coming to us far too late to get a security audit and a penetration test. So after months of fundraising and a private pre-sale and another pre-sale, and going and throwing parties and events and conferences to increase the excitement for participating in their token sale, what we think is the most important part, the security audit for a smart contract is left to the last week before your ICO. And a ridiculous number of companies are coming to us within seven days of the token sale, >> John: Scrambling. >> Scrambling, and we're saying but we've seen you at seven conferences, I think that we need to delay your ICO by two or three weeks. We can assure you that all of your investors will say thank you for valuing security, because this is irreversible. Once this goes live and the smart contract is deployed. >> Horse is out of the barn. >> It's irreversible. >> Right right. >> And once we seal the code, no one should touch it. >> It's always the case with security, it's bolted on at the last minute. >> It's like back road recovery too, oh we'll just back it up. It's an architectural decision we should have made that months ago. So question for you, the smart contract, because again I'm just getting my wires crossed, 'cause there's levels of smart contracts. So if we, hypothetical ICO or we're doing smart contracts for our audience that's going to come out soon. But see that's more transactional. There's security token sales, >> Yes. >> That are essentially, can be ERC 20 tokens, and that's not huge numbers. It could be big, but not massive. Not a lot transaction costs. That's a contract, right? That's a smart contract? >> People are writing smart contracts to conduct a token generational event, most commonly for an ERC 20 token, that's correct. >> Okay so that's the big, I call that the big enchilada. That's the big-- >> Right now that is the most important, the most common. >> Okay so as you go in the future, I can envision a day where in our community, people going to be doing smart contracts peer-to-peer. >> Sure. >> How does that work? Is that a boiler plate? Is is audited, then it's going to be audited every time? Do the smart contracts get smaller? I mean what's your vision on that? Because we are envisioning a day where people in our audience will say hey Hartej, let's do a white paper together, let's write it together, have a handshake, do a smart contract click, click. Lock it in. And charge a dollar a download, get a million downloads, we split it. >> I envision a day where you can have a more drag and drop smart contract and not need a technical developer to be a full-stack engineer to have to write your smart contract. Yes I totally envision that day. >> John: But that's not today. >> We are very far from that today. >> Dave, kill that project. >> We're so far, we're very far from that. We're light years far from that. >> Okay well look. If we can't eliminate the full-stack engineers, I'm okay with that. Can we eliminate the lawyers? At least minimize them. >> We can minimize them possibly, but we have five stacks of lawyers for our company, I don't see them going anywhere. We need lawyers all the time. >> I see that in the press sometimes, yeah it's going to get disrupted. I don't see it happening. Okay we were having a great conversation off-camera about what makes a good ICO. You see, you have a huge observation space. And you were very opinionated. A lot of companies are out there just floating a token because they're trying to raise money. And they could do the same thing with Ethereum or Bitcoin. >> That's correct. >> Your thoughts? >> My thoughts are that it's very important for companies who are sophisticated, I think, to start by giving away a little bit of equity in the business. And that if you want to be in the blockchain space, and you really firmly believe you have a model to have a token within a decentralized application, I would still start by finding quality investors in the space, in the world. They might be still in Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley didn't just disappear overnight now that the blockchain is out. I am all for the fact that Silicon Valley no longer has as much of a grip on tech because of their blockchain world. And they're not seeing as much deal flow, and there's not as much reliance on venture capitalists, that's exciting to me. But let's not forget the value, that top-tier VCs like Andreessen Horowitz and Vinod Khosla. and Fintech VCs like Commerce Ventures and Nyca Partners in New York, Propel VC, these are good Fintech VC arms that continue to time and time again add immense value to companies. >> And they have networks. They add value. >> They have strong-valued networks, but they're just not going to disappear. And those VCs, if they've invested into a company, took a board seat, fostered their growth, taught them what it means to actually be a real business that's growing at 7-15% week over week, maybe two years down the line, after they've given away a board seat to someone like Nyca Partners, I would be interested in understanding what your token economics look like. Now that you have a revenue generating business, how you've placed a token model into this already running business that makes 25 to 50 grand a month and you have a team of 10, self-sustaining themselves off of revenue. Much more intriguing of a conversation. What's happening today in the space is, hey my buddy Jim and Steve and I came up with an idea for this business. There's going to be a token, and we're starting a private pre-sale tomorrow. I'm going to give you 300% bonus and will you be my advisor? And they're going to start raising capital because of an idea. You know what we used to say in the Silicon Valley startup world, you can raise on just a PowerPoint. I think in the blockchain world, you could raise on just an idea? And then maybe a white paper? And the white paper is one page? And so you've raised a bunch of capital, you have a white paper. >> Now you got to build it. >> Now you got to build, you got to write a smart contract, you got to build it, you got to do it, and then everyone loses excitement and it goes back to our previous conversation the development talent. So, another thing not being discussed in the space is company employee retention, right? So if you have a growing number of ICOs, that have very large budgets because investors have found a way to sink millions of dollars into a company early, you've got $5 million in the hands of a company to start, well this company can afford to pay someone a very ridiculous salary to come join them to write the smart contract now. So they could offer an engineer 500 Eth a month to come join them for three months. So you have good engineers just bouncing from one ICO to the next and as soon as the ICO goes live, they quit. This is a problem to companies who are-- >> It's migration, out migration. >> How do you retain, even capital? >> Companies like Hosho, ShapeShift, companies that are selling picks and shovels of the industry, that want to be household names in the space, we have to really think about how we're going to retain our employees in the space. >> So the recruitment and bringing on the new generation, we were also talking off camera about Bill Tye and the younger generation and kind of riffing on the notion that, because there is a new set of mission-driven developers and builders, on the business side as well. Your thoughts and reaction to what you see and what you see that's good and what you see that we need more of? >> So the most powerful thing in the blockchain space that I think is so exciting is that you have a lot of people between the age of 25 and 35 that don't come from money, that didn't go to Stanford, didn't go to Y Combinator, they're probably not white, from-- >> John: Ivy League schools. >> Ivy League schools. I'm not trying to make it about race, but if you're a white male and went to Stanford and went to Y Combinator, chances of you raising VC money on sand hill are a lot higher, right? And you have a guy looking like me who didn't go to Stanford, doesn't come from money, running up and down sand hill, I have personally faced that battle and it wasn't easy. And we were based in Vegas and so being based in Vegas, I'd also have to deal with so why do you live in Vegas? When are you going to move to Silicon Valley? And if we invest in you, you're going to open an office in sand hill right? And now in the blockchain world, what's exciting is you have so many heavy-hitters running as founders, some of the most successful companies in the space, who don't come from money and a big prestigious background, but they're honest, they're hard-working, they're putting in 12 to 15 hours of work every single day, seven days a week. And to space, six weeks is like six years. And we all have a level of trust that goes back to times when we were all running struggling startups. And so our bond is, to me, even more significant than what must have been between Keith Rabois and Peter Thiel in the PayPal Mafia. We have our own mafias being formed of much stronger bonds of younger people who will be able to share much more significant deal flow so if the PayPal Mafia was able to join forces to punch out companies like eBay and Square, wait 'til companies in this space, we have young, heavy-hitters right now who are non-reliant on some of the more traditional older folks. Wait 'til you see what happens in the next couple years. >> Hartej, great conversation. And I want to get one more question in. We've seen Keiretsu Forum, mafias, teams more than ever as community becomes an integral part of vetting and by the way trust, you have unwritten rules. I mean baseball, Dave and I used to do sports analogies. >> Self-governance. >> Reggie Jackson talked about unwritten rules and it works. If you beam the batter, the other guy, your best star, your side's going to get beamed. That's an unwritten rule. These are what keeps things going, balanced through the course of a season. What are the unwritten rules in the Ethos right now? >> Honesty, transparency, and that's the key. We need self-governance. This is a very unregulated market. There's rules being broken by people who are ignorant to the rules. The most common rule I've seen being broken is by people who are not broker dealers, running around fundraising capital, they don't even know what an institutional advisor license is. They don't know what a Series 7 and a Series 63 is. I asked a guy just last night, he said I'm pooling capital, I'm syndicating, let me know if you want in on the deal. And I said when did you take your Series 7? He goes what's that? Get away from me. You're an American, you need to look up what US securities laws are and make sure that you're playing by the rules and if someone who doesn't know the rules has entered our inner circle of investors, of advisors, of people sharing deal flow, we have a good network of people that are closing the loop for companies, whether it's lawyers, investors, exchanges, security auditors, people who write smart contracts, dev shops, people who write white papers, PR marketing, people who do the road show, there's a full circle-- >> So people are actually doing work to put into the community, to know your neighbor if you will, know the deals that are going down, to identify potential trip wires that are being established by either bad actors or-- >> KYC, AML, this is a new space that's also attracting people that have a criminal background. Right? And that's just a harsh reality of the space. That in the United States if you have a felony on your record, maybe getting a job has become really difficult and you figured let's do an ICO, no one's going to check my record. That is a reality of the space. Another reality is the money that was invested into this entire ICO clean. Right, that's a massive issue for the US government right now. It's been less than 15 hours since the SEC has issued actually subpoenas to people on this exact topic, today. >> This is a great topic, we'd like to do more on. >> Dozens of them. >> We'd like to continue to keep in touch with you on The Cube. Obviously you're welcome anytime, loved your insight. Certainly we'd love to have you be an advisor on our mission, you're welcome anytime. >> For sure, let's talk about it. Come out to Las Vegas. Hosho's always happy to host you. >> John And Dave: We're there all the time. >> The Cube lives at the sands. >> It's our second home. >> Come by Hosho's office and let us know. Vegas is our home. We are hosting a conference in Vegas after DEFCON. So DEFCON is the biggest security conference in the world. You have the best black hats and white hats show up as security experts in Vegas and right on the tail end of it, Hosho's going to host a very exclusive invite-only conference. >> What's it called? Just Hosho Conference? >> Just Blockchain. It'll be called the just, it'll be by the Just Blockchain Group and Hosho's the main backer behind it. >> Well we appreciate your integrity and your sharing here on The Cube, and again you're paying it forward in the community, that's great. Ethos we love that. That's our mission here, paying it forward content. Here in the Bahamas. Live coverage here at PolyCon 18. We're talking about securitized token, a decentralized future for awesome things happening. I'm Jeff Furrier, Dave Vellante. We'll be back with more after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> And who we are today as a country, as a universe. >> Announcer: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (gentle music) Live from Silicon Valley, it's theCube, covering Google Cloud Next '17. (techno music) >> Hi, and welcome back to theCube's coverage of Google Next 2017. We're at the heart of Silicon Valley in our great studio in Palo Alto. We've got a team of reporters and analysts up in San Francisco with the 10,000 people attending, really, Google's enterprise show. It's got Cloud, it's got G Suite. It's got a little bit of the devices. I'm happy to welcome back to the program, someone we've had on many times, Nelson Nahum, the CEO of Zadara Storage. Really a company that's in there, understanding this cloud transition from, kind of, how the enterprise gets in multicloud and all those pieces. Nelson, welcome back to the program. >> Thank you, sir, how are you? >> All right, it's good. So, you know, you and I last time we talked was at another cloud show, a little bigger cloud show, one that's been going on for a number of years, but let's start talking about Google. What's, you know, we think a lot of progress over the last couple of years. I mean, Diane Green definitely has put her stamp on this company. A ton of people that have been brought in, many of them, those of us in the industry, we know these people. We've seen them grow these businesses, understand how to talk to the enterprise, so, what's your take on the show so far and how Google's doing as a company? And we'll get into how they are as a partner soon, too. >> So this is our first Google Cloud show for us, for Zadara. We've been in, I think, since 2011, in Amazon Prime event, and we like it. This is going very well. We have a lot of conversations. We saw that there are many, many customers looking to have multicloud strategy. That actually works very well for us, because we can provide storage that can be accessible at the same time concurrently from Amazon, and from Google and Azure and others. So, yeah, it's a good trend. I think most of the people we found, they're either already on Amazon and looking to expand to Google or some on-premise to Google, and so on. >> Can you help unpack that multicloud a bit for us? So you know, maybe some of our audience might not know, you guys sit in some of those mega-datacenters, like the Equinixes of the world, and direct connect to the public cloud. >> Exactly, exactly. >> So, I've got, kind of, my storage being Zadara, and there actually is, you know, physical storage there, and then that, you know, plugs into the Cloud resources, of course. We know AWS's Direct Connect. Amazon has, you know, their equivalent, and Google has the same, so, can you have, you know, it's a single solution that, does it just get fibers to all three of them? Is there software that takes care of it? >> Yeah, actually- >> How does that work? >> Yeah, great question. So we sit in Equinix data centers with our cloud, and from there, in many cases, we use Equinix Cloud Exchange, that is, basically, like a networking inside Equinix, and can be connected to many different potential targets, so, currently we are cross-connected to Amazon, Google and Azure. So our customer, at first, can create a storage and mount with NFS or ZFS, or Block, and can mount the storage, especially if it is file storage, then you can share data. You can mount the same storage to virtual machines in Google, and to virtual machines in Amazon, and at the same time, they see the same files. >> Yeah, and what's the use case, why are they doing that? Is that for redundancy or certain features? You know, there was a certain cloud outage a week ago, were your customers riding through that, based on what they're doing? >> Yeah, so, the measured cloud outage that Amazon had last week, S3 ... it caused my people to rethink (laughs), I guess. Fortunately, for us, all our customers that sit in our storage, wasn't impacted, because they sit in our storage and they don't use, we don't use Amazon infrastructure, so they could continue- >> Stu: No S3 for your customers, right? >> Right, so we are doing the Block and the file storage for our customers. I think that, what is important here is not the outage, but what is important is people start recognizing that you need to have the data in two locations in order to be safe. >> Yeah, it's ... People that have done architecture and understand infrastructure is, you know, I need to be thoughtful as to how I architect things, so either I need to make sure I have the availability zones and the services and can take care of that, or perhaps even multicloud to be able to take care of that. >> So, multicloud and you're completely independent to each other. So, we have an array of many customers using us and Amazon and, again, because our storage can be cross-connected to multiple clouds, it's very easy to access from virtual machines in any cloud at the same time. So, people that are using that, it's either for a, kind of, these are tolerant solutions or more robust solutions. As well, in some cases for migration. Each cloud provider has the places or the attributes that it has. You can run applications better in that particular cloud, so, for example, in Microsoft Azure, anything that is related to Windows, they are the best, and, Oracle Cloud, if you run Oracle, probably is the best way to start. So, I will say that the multicloud is not only the disaster recovery type, but people want to use the best cloud for the particular application they have, and they have multiple applications, so use multiple clouds. >> I'm curious, do you get visibility, as to, you know, why are customers choosing Google? Are there, do you have customers that are using Google that aren't using the other public clouds, is it primarily your customers are using it as a secondary source, any data you've got or anecdotes would be helpful. >> So, we have two types of customers, the ones that are multicloud and the others that are going from on-premise to the cloud. As you know, we have an on-premise business, and we make it very easy, from on-premise, to move to the cloud. We just launched it, here in Google Cloud, a service called cloud iteratation, that basically, we allow a customer to move their entire infrastructure from on-premise to the cloud with zero, or minimal, downtime. So, we will ship all the storage to the on-premise facilities, the customer will pay per use, we will start doing replication to the cloud, or in some cases, if it is multiple petabytes, we will ship the equipment to the cloud, and, in the meantime, we can do replication and, at the end, we can switch and fail over, and the customer can continue from the cloud. >> Cloud hydration, >> Cloud hydration, yes. >> is that service. Does that support all the services, all the clouds? >> Yeah, so today, we are doing this for many customers, and the good use case is when a customer wants to move a lot of data to the cloud, but they don't want to have downtime. Because, Amazon Snowball and all these boxes, you need to copy the data, and then ship, and then restore. >> Stu: So, it's not a truck that takes three months >> Yeah, exactly. >> sitting on your location. >> This is what we do, we ship double amount of equipment to the customer, they start doing the copy, and then, half of it, we ship to the cloud. We connect to the cloud, and resume the connection, and, all the time, the customer continues to run, okay? And, at the last moment, they do the fail over. So, it's minimum downtime, even if you need to ship one petabyte of storage. >> Yeah. I'm curious, we've been going through such tremendous changes in the storage industry, do you guys sell, you know, is it the storage person, who do you sell to, and where is their mind at when they think about storage today? >> Yeah. Yeah, we sell storage, so the storage person is the one that's buying- >> Yeah, you know, a lot of people, if they're buying Google, or even if they're putting in AWS services, the storage person is, a lot of time, kind of shoved out of the mix, you're a little bit- >> Shoved out of the mix until they have a problem that they need to bring back the storage- >> Wait, are you saying that could be a problem? (laughs) >> So, what happen is that, and this is, I think, how the cloud started, is cloud storage is, "Ah, storage is just storage," until you start running real applications and you need the performance, and you need the reliability, and so on. So, this is why you need the storage guy to architect the solution, and this is where we, we come in and actually act as a really good outsourcing team of storage experts to the customer, and we help them with this transition from on-premise to the cloud and, in many cases, back and forth, if the customer wants to have a leg in the cloud, a leg on-premise, and move data easily back and forth. >> So, Google made a good push at the show, talking about building the ecosystem, how they want to work with partners. They had companies, like you know, PwC's all over the place, SAP, very strong partnership. How have you found it to work with Google? Any things you'd say to them as to how they can accelerate and move things faster to, you know, build up the ecosystem? >> Yeah, so far, our experience with Google was extremely good. The people are very dynamic, they have the Google dynamism that is very good, and, for us, it was really good to have a close relationship with the Google product managers and sales people, and so on, so we enjoy, have a really good relationship with Google Cloud. >> All right, well, Nelson, I want to give you the final word. You know, things you've learned this week, any cool customer conversation you've had, give us the final takeaway. >> Yeah, so, the ... I guess my summary is that, here in Google Cloud, we have a big advantage because we have ... NAS, NFS, ZFS, we've architected their integration and all the snapshot capabilities that enterprises need. And, you know that Google doesn't have a EFS type of functionality, and our functionality's actually higher than EFS. So, this is what we are talking to customers, here in Google Cloud, anybody that needs NFS and ZFS, and NAS and multicloud, and on-premise to the cloud, they talk to us and we are ready to go. >> All right, Nelson Nahum, really appreciate you coming to the studio here to share what's happening at the Google event. Be sure to check out wikibon.com for our cloud research and, of course, siliconangle.tv to see all the shows we're going to be at, as well as the replays from this and lots of other cloud infrastructure, IoT and big data shows. We'll be back with lots more coverage here, day two of two, covering Google Cloud. From the SiliconANGLE media studio in Palo Alto, you're watching The Cube. (techno music)

>> Is about what our youth is, and who we are today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (gentle music) Live from Silicon Valley it's The Cube covering Google Cloud Next '17. (upbeat music) >> Hi, welcome back to The Cube's coverage of Google Next 2017 happening in San Francisco. We're shooting live from our 4,500 square foot here in Palo Alto in the heart of SiliconANGLE. Happy to welcome back to the program, I guess we haven't had him for a little while, but one that we know quite well, Ron Bianchini who's the CEO of Avere. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> All right, so Ron, for our audience, why don't you give us the update? What's happening with Avere the company itself, and what brings you guys, which I think of you, no offense, you guys are infrastructure company I think of on there. How does cloud fit into the whole discussion you guys are having, and your customers? >> That's great, great segue. So, we started out as an infrastructure company and really what Avere learned to do, our whole IP, actually let me start this way. We started in 2008. Think about where the world was in 2008. People were trying to figure out how to get flash into the data center. And what we did is we came up with a storage system, a NAS server, that knew about two types of storage. It knew that there was very high performance nearby precious flash storage, but that big bulk storage, much cheaper, 1/10 the price disk was a high latency away. And we're able to take that solution, and we started out in the data center, we went after very high performance applications, but showed how you could do it at very low cost. >> It's great, nine years later, I mean, storage is infinite and free, right? >> That's right. The good news for us is the world is very much in the same place. The cost delta between flash and disk has stayed at 10 to one. Both have gotten a lot less expensive, but that difference between the two has stayed. It turns out a solution that knows how to use local high performance flash and store big bulk data at high latency away is an ideal solution for the cloud. And really what we're helping customers now is we're helping customers that are in the data center, in the Enterprise data center, we're helping them adopt cloud. And it works two ways. We support the gateway model where you can keep your compute on-prem and put your big bulk storage in the cloud, and we enable that model without seeing any delta, any change in performance or availability. But we also do the opposite of that, we enable customers to put their compute out in the cloud, and now the big bulk capacity could either stay in the cloud or could be on-prem. So really, I think about us as an enterprise data center play, just like you said, but now we're helping customers take baby steps and slowly adopt the cloud. >> All right, so terms I heard from Google this week, they talked about building the planetary scale computer. They talked about Google Spanner which gives us global, the time synchronization across the globe, the things that those of us with storage backgrounds, it's like, boy these are big, heavy challenges. >> Ron: Big words, right. >> Talking about some of the things, just physics that we try to figure all that. So, how do you guys fit into that? I mean, doesn't GFS, Google File System, solve all these issues for us? >> Right, great. So, one thing to understand is that enterprise storage uses a very different consistency model than Google Storage. So, there's a theorem called the CAP principle, C-A-P. It's consistency, availability, and partition tolerance. And basically what the CAP principle says is, of those three parameters, pick two, because it's impossible to build a storage system that does all three. And really, GFS is all about availability and partition tolerance, because they have big, scalable solutions. What it doesn't give you is exact consistency, and that's what NAS solutions do. NAS solutions are really the high consistency, still partition tolerant because you have big distributed scale systems, but you don't get that high availability piece. And it turns out, in the enterprise there are times when you need high availability storage, that's what you get from Google's file system, but then there are also times you need high consistency storage, that's what you get from an Avere solution. Imagine a bank account where you deposited a million dollars, and then you withdraw a million dollars from two locations, maybe 10 seconds apart. If you don't have a high consistency model, it might be possible to withdraw money from both places. That's what NAS guarantees. >> Ron, I want to get your viewpoint, I'm sure you talk to a lot of your customers. What's their mindset of cloud today, and what are the kinds of conversations that you're having with people stop by your booth at Moscone West. >> I think you said it right, Google is proposing big, scalable, huge features that the customers are trying to get access to, but moving everything from the data center into the cloud all at once to get them is a big, scary step. And so really what we enable people to do is to take baby steps. If you want to move a little bit of your capacity to the clouds, or petabytes of storage in the clouds, like one of our Genomics customers does, you could do that. Your compute and a lot of where they start in storage stays on-prem, but now they're leveraging the cloud for big, scalable capacity. Then we have other customers that want access to the compute and the performance of the scaling you can get. We allow them to get access to that as well. >> Any commentary on, I think about just the trend itself. There's no doubt how big cloud is and how fast it's growing. When we look on the data side Diane Green threw out a number that only 5% of the world's data sits in the public cloud, and that's going to shift. We know that there's a lot of compute-heavy workloads that really started out in those environments, or are leveraging that. So, there's a lot of kind of reasons why we haven't had the data there. We are starting to see some rapid acceleration. What do you see happening in the environment? >> I think that's right. I think the 5% number just gives us a window into how big this cloud movement is, how much is still left to be accomplished. We talk about cloud, cloud, cloud, as if it's already happened, but we're only at the cusp of what's possible. And that's really what we see as this next big phase of the cloud is ingest, is cloud adoption, it's migrating applications and storage into the cloud. >> Yeah, you said what, the future's already here, just unevenly distributed. >> That's right. It hasn't quite made it yet. >> You guys are headquartered in Pittsburgh. >> We are. >> I'm out of Boston. I always joke every time I come out here, it's like okay, I'm going to go spend a week in the Valley and in San Francisco, then I'm going to go back to the real world where I'm not seeing autonomous vehicles in front of me. You guys have some cool autonomous cars driving around Pittsburgh these days? >> Ron: We absolutely do. >> And not everybody is fully cloud-native, serverless and everything else like that. What are you seeing in the marketplace, what's interesting you these days? >> There's no doubt that in the future world all data, all applications, everything will be in the cloud unless there's a very important reason to have it nearby. We think with our Genomics customers, it has to start where the patients are. It has to start on-prem, and then it gets migrated to the cloud. But there's no doubt in the future all compute, especially the big, scalable things that we hear Google talk about will be there. The next five, seven years is all about how we get there from here. >> All right, and Ron, as people look at your company what should we be expecting kind of throughout the rest of this year as we look at you growing your future? >> It's all about making it easier to adopt the cloud. You're going to see higher levels of integration with our cloud partners, Google in particular. We do a lot of work with Google. You're going to see big steps as we move forward and make that integration better. >> You're working with the other cloud players, yes this is a Google show, but we want to talk about the environment. Lots of companies I talk to are like, "Look, yes Google's a player," but I talk to plenty of companies that, "Look, 3/4 of my customers are all on Amazon," and that's where a lot of the market is today. So, what's the breadth of the offering that you have to that? >> It is. We support all the three big cloud players, we support Amazon, Microsoft, and Google. What I will say is the Google team is very much focused on the enterprise, just like Avere is. And that actually helps us a lot. It's really helping us knock down customers and really helping get customers moved into the cloud. >> All right, Ron, I'll give you the final word. Takeaways for the week, anything else you want to share before we wrap. >> You know, it's exactly what you said. The cloud is coming, now it's just a matter of how we get there and watching the big momentum shift. >> I think Eric Schmidt said last year we were like kind of meet you were we are. This year it's, come on. It's, now's the time, we need to go. I think we understand how big cloud is going to be, it's one of the generational shifts that we're all going to be watching, and we're in the thick of it. So, thank you, Ron, for joining us, and we'll be back with lots more coverage here. We've got call-ins and people at the show itself doing dial-ins, pulling people in. Really broad community at this event, so stay tuned for lots more coverage, and you're watching The Cube. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

(light music) You are Cube alumni. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) You are Cube alumni. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) You are Cube alumni. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) >> Today as a country, as a universe. >> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. You are Cube alumni. (light music) (light music) >> Narrator: Live from the Silicon Valley, It's the Cube. Covering Google Cloud Next 17. >> Hello and welcome to the Cube special coverage of Google Next 2017. This is the Cube's two days of live coverage here in Palo Alto studio. We have reporters and analysts on the ground. We have all the Wikibon analysts in San Francisco. Have been up there since Monday for the Google analyst summit. As well as reporters at the keynote. We're going to be going live to folks on the ground for a reaction and commentary from the keynotes. As well as all the big break outs and news coverage. Again, two days of live coverage and we want to put a shout out to Intel for their sponsorship and allowing us to do the two days of in depth coverage. Really breaking down the Cloud. And really talking about this new mega trend around Cloud service providers where it's a multi-cloud game, which is pretty clear that's happening. And then the SaaSification of the world with AI machine learning. Really changing the game on infrastructure, software development. This is the digital transformation. This is the May trend. And here to help kick off our two days of coverage is venture capitalist, Scott Raney, who's a partner at Redpoint Ventures, who has a lot of history in network software SaaS. Scott, thanks for joining us on the kickoff here. >> My pleasure. >> For our coverage. Yeah, the big story I on Google News is obviously Diane Green, great executive. She gets a lot of criticism for her presentation. Some people were saying it's a little bit sleepy, but she's got a folksy kind of, I call it the Berkeley kind of vibe, but she's super smart. She's a very cool person. But she came in from VMWare, which has a lot of chops in the enterprise so it's no surprise that Google Cloud is now marching heavily towards the enterprise. They have all the window dressing. You're seeing the all the check boxes next to the sales and marketing, some of the things that they're doing. But the end of the day, it's an AI machine learning at the center of all this. Where data and a new cloud developer or new developer market has been emerging very fast. They call it cloud native. You're investing in this space. Give me your thoughts on this because you guys have to look at the 20 mile stare down the road. Look at kind of that five year horizon or plus for investments whether it's early stage or what not, but you guys have done a lot with startups that have been successful. Twilio went public that you're on the board of. You have a lot of investments in there that are doing very, very well. The developers, the opportunities, what's your take as an investor writing big checks. >> Yeah, well I think Google is a really interesting way to start this conversation. Not just the Google Cloud platform, but Google as an entity. I think Google is frankly been defining about 10 years ahead of where enterprises are in terms of how they're thinking about building and deploying applications. And so, if you look at Google, the work they've done to actually support their internal efforts, these guys then create white papers, the white papers are then disseminated, and then a whole set of industries get kicked off around those. So obviously one of the great examples of that is what happen around Hadoop and that wave. I think what we're in the process of seeing right now is a whole series of innovations that are being developed around more kind of cloud native technologies. I think Kubernetes is a great example, which is really the outgrowth of work that Google had done around Borg. And so we spend a lot of time thinking about the work that Google's, the things that Google is working on now. Recognizing that's the future of enterprise computing. Obviously, it takes a while to get there. But, there have been massive industries you can create from that. >> And it's transformative too. Again, I mentioned Twillio. They went public. Great service. We saw Snap go public. They're now running on Google Cloud and some on AWS. There's game changing opportunities out there that are going to come out of these unique perspectives that developers and entrepreneurs might have. And say hey I'm going to innovate on camera technology. That becomes Snap, which becomes kind of a unique, weird app and then to a main stream. This is not a one off. I mean there's a lot happening around creative, young entrepreneurs and old, some guys our age. But either way, it's not just apps. It's transformation at the network level. All the way up to the top of the stack. >> Yeah. >> What are the trends around that? I mean because machine learning is obviously hot. What are you hearing for pitches? What's coming through your door? What are you looking at? You guys see a lot of deals. What's the trends that are coming out of there? >> Well, every pitch we see has machine learning in it. Every company has become an AI company at some level. So that's clearly a big trend. I think for us the way that we look at it in terms of investments is we're recognizing that the algorithms are really becoming commoditized in some level. And Google, with TensorFlow, is actually helping make that happen. As we just talked about, they're democratizing machine learning at some level. The key there is data. And so, when we look at these companies, we're looking for companies that have a unique, proprietary access to data that they can apply those algorithms to, deliver insight. I think one of the more interesting areas or applications around that we're seeing is in the SaaS space. Kind of upper level at the cloud space, how it's really not enough now to build a SaaS application that just automates a business process. What you have to do is deliver insights. You have to help make the people that are using these applications better at there job at some level and the way to do that is through things like machine learning. >> What's interesting, Peter Burris, who's one of our heads of research for Wikibon pointed out, last week when we we're covering Mobile World Congress, he goes it's interesting, you know years ago, when I was breaking into the business in the late 80s, early 90s, it was known processes, unknown technology, and those were automated. Now you have known technology and unknown processes. So getting those insights to get that discovery could really disrupt existing incumbents, big players. So someone can innovate, say hey, I'm going to innovate on a new process that's emerging. This seems to be the big trend that's going on and again the software model is changing. So how do you guys see entrepreneurs looking at the AI and are they that focused on that? Or do they see that? I mean what are the key areas? Do they actually say hey, I'm going to disrupt this marketplace with this one feature? We always hear the MVP or pick something and do it great. What are some of the things that you've seen? >> We're really seeing two things in the AI and ML space. We're seeing one is the general kind of platform play. People that are trying to actually offer machine learning to developers in some way, shape or form. And the reality is I think those are very difficult businesses to build. I think Google Cloud is actually extremely well positioned to be able to actually kind of drive that forward for developers based on all the work they've done internally and they way that cloud is built and architected. The second are applications are AI and ML. And that's where we're spending the vast majority of our time because we think that's where the most value we be created there for folks that don't own a cloud like Google. >> The thing that's interesting about entrepreneurs is it's been a nice thing, the cloud you can get into the game with open source and build a business. You don't have to get all the, provision the data center. That's kind of been talked about, it's not new news. Yeah, you can get up and running, but it's interesting. It was easy to get into the enterprise and then all of sudden now, as it gets more complicated, we're almost going back to the old days of it was really hard to crack the code in the enterprise. It seems to be a lot of new table stakes are emerging. It used to be could native, oh we're going to go to the enterprise. And you saw box.net, now being Box and Dropbox, they're getting in the enterprise very easily. But now, as we go I'd say post-2012, all these new requirements start to rear their ugly head around it's hard to get into the enterprise. So this is something that Google is certainly challenged with right now is that they have a lot of tech, they're serious about the enterprise, that's clear. But to be an enterprise contender and winner and winning deals, how hard is it to win the enterprise? And is that some that you see where the enterprise landscape has changed where it's harder or is it easier? What's your thoughts in the complexities in the enterprise? >> Yeah, I maybe have a different point of view than you do. Which is actually, I actually think it's actually easier now to penetrate the enterprise at some level than it ever has been before. But it has to start with product. And open source is an incredible phenomenon that we're seeing that's kind of overtaking the way that enterprises think about building infrastructure today. I don't think you can build an infrastructure company unless you're offering it as open source software. And so, what we look for in terms of investments and I think what entrepreneurs need to do is think about how do I build products that enterprises will love and release that as open source and open to see some level of adoption. When you see that then that's the best path to be able to go in and sell to them and building revenue around it. Kind of transitioning back to Google and what they're doing with the cloud effort, I think that their approach is actually, it's intriguing. You know, Diane is a world class executive in this way and, you know, I think brought in the last big transition that we've seen through the work she did with virtualization. And I wouldn't bet against her here. I think the things that those guys are doing is offering a pretty compelling set of higher level services now that are getting traction with things like BigQuery. I think TensorFlow is obviously very interesting. And then what they now announced recently with Spanner as a service. These are all technologies that Google understands and mastered and are very compelling technologies that I think the average developer will want. And they are highly differentiated from the services that are available from the Amazon's and Microsofts' of the world. >> Yeah, Spanner certainly got that horizontally-scalable mojo going on. They still got some work to do outside of MySQL and there on the relational database side, which we're watching. But they know that. I mean Google is clearly not saying they're, you know, fully-baked. They're actually candid in the analyst meeting. They were very candid on the security side and very candid on some of these things that they know they've got to do. But they are peddling as fast as they can. So I got to ask you the venture capital question. Developers are out there. Because there was a line, literally a blockbuster as they called it. People around the block to get in. Google IO had similar attraction. Those events are awesome. Google runs great events. They have, I would call them the technology store. People love to go in there and see what they have. But as an entrepreneur coming in, I'm going to build on a stack, whether it's Amazon or Google or somewhere else, you got to worry about the viability when you have the big gorillas out there. You got Amazon, now Google. What's the formula for and what do you worry about as an investor because the things you must think about is okay, what's the approach, where's the viability, is there a marketplace, is there monetization, can they get traction, can they go beyond the first three million in sales, because SaaS you can get there pretty quickly, as it's been discussed. What are the fears that you worry about and what advice would you give entrepreneurs as they start to start really innovating and saying hey I'm going to take the democratization of AI and I'm going to do some damage. I want to enter a market. These are considerations that you got to think about and you, as an investor, where's the risk? And what's the opportunity? >> Oh man, well there are lots of risks starting a company. We could talk for an hour about the challenges associated with being an entrepreneur. It's probably the hardest job you can imagine having. You know I think that the first and foremost is you got to build products that people love. And you got to solve a real problem. And so, I think for us as investors, we look for that. It's different now in enterprise investing in infrastructure than before where there used to be 10, 20 million dollar efforts required to build the technology and then you take it to the enterprise. And you would hope that it would sell. Now, with a couple million dollars, you have the ability to go out and write some compelling software, release it in the open source and see whether or not it gets traction. And then, really the challenge is figuring out whether you can monetize that or not, right. And in today's model, that's really where we struggle. It's ultimately in how you ultimately package this and sell it. I think that the primary models that we're seeing are either some form of upsell on open source, so either service support, open core, or an enterprise grade application built on top of the open source. The other alternative is to deliver it as a service. And we see lots of folks that are taking that open source and saying we're going to run this as a service. We have a company, a platform of mine, that does that for cribinetties, but there are companies like Data Bricks that are doing that for Spark and the whole data pipeline. And that is potentially a very compelling model too. >> Do you have a formula or an algorithm for investment? I remember talking to Jeremy Lu way back in the day and I just saw him in an interview on Snapchat, was an investor and he actually jumped into the stats with Evan Spiegel and saw the traction cause he was skeptical. A lot of people had passed on it, but you know that story. Is there an algom that you look for besides the team and being an exceptional team of people, you know technical chops and product chops. Is there a way that you look at to identify traction in this marketplace because it could be, there's a lot of turbulence, mircoservices, you got Kubernetes, another Google innovation that's kind of becoming a glue layer if you will across services. Is there a way to say oh that's got traction, I like that? Or here's some benchmarks that I look for for hurdles in ventures. >> Yeah, within this infrastructure space primarily around models that are going to be delivered as open source, there's a couple things that we can look at. We'll track GitHub stars and so we'll get a sense from that how the community views this. Whether this is something that they are particularly interested in and the level of traction they're getting within that community. It's almost like that is almost like a stamp of approval from the technology community that says this is a really cool project, right? And then, beyond that you start to look at download volumes. And to understand just how widespread the adoption of this technology is. Those are imperfect metrics, you know. And so, a lot of times it comes back to >> Market forces or whatever. >> Switching gears and looking at the customers and asking them the kinds of problems they are experiencing and whether or not these technologies have a chance to actually address real long standing challenges that they've had in either building or deploying or running applications. And so, it's different than consumer. Yeah, consumer is a little bit easier to measure. And you have a lot of data. Consumer has it's own challenges and it's very difficult to kind of predict a priority or what's going to be successful. But the good news for us is that with high-quality teams, these guys typically know where to focus and where to spend time and ultimately will be able to create it. >> And customer traction is always a great one to look at. I mean sell the data points. Scott Raney, what's new with Redpoint Ventures? Give a quick plug for what you guys are doing, what you're investing in, size of the fund, how much dry powder you have as they say. Are you still writing checks? What kind of checks? >> We are in business and we're looking for great entrepreneurs. So we have two funds. One is a 400 million dollar early stage fund that focuses primarily on Series A and an occasional Series B. And then we have a 400 million dollar early growth fund that is really more an occasional Series B and Series C. You know our attitude to the entrepreneurs is they should be indifferent to which fund they're in. We treat every investment the same. Really, we just want to be a part of great companies and get a chance to work with great entrepreneurs. >> And you guys also sponsored the party last night with the CNCF After Cloud Native Compute Foundation. >> Yeah. >> How'd that go? What were some of the conversations in the hall way there? Or in the hall way, in the event, it was a social event, but you know great community, the CNCF After Development. A couple new projects emerging. >> They've done some great work. And the projects that are coming in represent a lot of the foundation work that's going to be required to build cloud native applications. The first thing we did at this event last night is try to find what cloud native actually is. (laughs) And I think everybody has a different definition for that. >> What's the most common one? Is there a trend pattern in there? >> Yeah, I think people were saying these are applications that are built, traditionally built, using containers. They're built leveraging microservices. And they are built with the assumption that the underlying infrastructure is going to be ephemeral in some way. So you know built... >> And you have a pony in that game with Azicorp so update on those guys? >> It's a company that is doing extremely well and solving a broad set of problems around helping developers build and run applications on top of the cloud and I think what were setting there and we're seeing kind of across the board is a general desire to start to think about multi-cloud. To start to understand what it takes to actually deploy applications and run applications across multiple clouds. And also to be more agnostic about what they underlying substrate looks like. And those are trends that bode well for Google and Microsoft. >> Yeah, we're excited, we're going to be watching. Scott, thanks for coming on. We're going to be watching that. Kubernetes, that orchestration layer that's going on around microservices that's a hot I'd say battleground around innovation, a lot of good things happening there. Great opportunities when there's a lot of turbulence. Great opportunities to invest. Good luck with your investments. Scott Raney, partner at Redpoint Ventures. Very active in the community. A great VC, check him out. It's the Cube two days of live coverage all day. Going to 4:30, 5:00 pm today. And then tomorrow, Thursday. And then we're off to South by Southwest again. More coverage, we wrap with more coverage after the short break.

>> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. >> Certainly in the moment, is about what are youth is and who we are today as a country, as a universe. You are CUBE alumni. Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Oracle OpenWorld 2016. Brought to you by Oracle now here's your host John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Hey welcome back everyone we're live here in San Francisco at Oracle OpenWorld. This is SiliconANGLE Media's flagship program, theCUBE, where we go out to the events and extract the signal from noise. I'm John Furrier, co-CEO of SiliconANGLE Media, with Peter Burris, general manager at Wikibon research, and Head of Research at SiliconANGLE Media. Our next guest is CUBE alumni, Chuck Hollis, Senior Vice-President of Infrastructure at cloud and storage. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> It's always a pleasure. I always have a good time when I'm here. >> So the best part of having you on is you've seen the movie before, you've lived it on other teams, you're now at Oracle, what, two and a half years? >> Chuck: One year at Oracle. >> Almost two years, so -- >> Chuck: I'm not dead yet. >> I don't think you -- >> What's that mean? Let's explore that. When will you be dead? >> You're looking good right now. You actually look like you been working out. >> A little tan, like you, like you, you know? >> So is it the country club here at Oracle? >> No, no, no. >> Chairs spinning at five o' clock? >> I'm up early and to bed late and weekends included, right? >> Well, certainly, Dave Donatelli's here, and a team of people really ramping up, essentially engineered systems, AKA hardware engineered in with the software. >> Both, in the cloud, and on premises, right? >> In the cloud and on premises. Clear, end-to-end oracle solution, which will, one, be optimized to run on Oracle, or -- >> Among other things, yes. >> So give us the update; what's the new announcements today? >> So Larry from onstage was very proud to talk about our new gen-two infrastructures of service, and our belief is there's a gap in the market. We have people doing public cloud, right, which, basically, is Startover, Azure, AWS. No chance of an on-prem solution. We have the private cloud guys, basically a Vmware shop, infrastructure only, no pass no nothing, and certainly not a lot of choices if you want to go to public cloud. We think that Oracle's doing a good job of creating that third option. Here's a combined, integrated strategy, on-premises and in the cloud, same technology, same set of capabilities aimed at enterprise applications that basically works the way enterprise IT needs it to work. So this next-gen two infrastructures of service is kind of the first peak of this massive investment we'd be making making entirely new infrastructure cloud that meets the needs of enterprise IT. >> So is this a reboot, or is this an extension of where you guys were? Some were, analysts were saying, not us, but -- >> Chuck: Ah, you'd never say that. >> Well, they said, I was using their words. Holger at Constellation said it's a reboot of their other infrastructure service, so he didn't want to say it failed, implied a transition -- >> Well, I wouldn't say it failed, it's more like a leapfrog. >> John: Explain. >> Oracle got into this business software as service, rather than standalone Sass packages, they worked on integrating everything tightly together, unifying the company. That was followed by platform as a service, aimed at 9,000,000 Java developers around the planet and everything they do. Infrastructure as a service was just made separately about a year ago. We got into the market, we learned a lot of things, but we also realized that we could actually start over again. We look at the engineering team, it's up to about 400 people who are building this next-gen IS, are all ex-Amazon, all ex-Azure. This is not their first infrastructure cloud, and because they were handed a blank piece of paper and said, "you can start over again," it actually is pretty exciting what they've done architecturally. >> So there's got to be something Oracle's doing that's distinct, so just for any number of reasons. Oracle has a lot of existing customers that're running heavy-duty enterprise applications. >> Chuck: Yeah, the tough stuff. >> The tough stuff, so talk to us about how the tough stuff is going to end up in the cloud. >> I think you bring up a good point. One way of looking at it now is that the easy stuff is gone. Desktop has gone to Office 365, and those kids from college are playing with AWS, and maybe I've got some generic workload consolidation sitting in the back room with a private cloud. What about those hairy applications, the demanding databases, in-memory analytics, the big to-do workloads? Where are they going to go? Well, what you see with out infrastructure-to-service is that we're actually providing two capabilities. We can run all of those through our cloud using those exact same technologies that we're running on-premises. You're probably familiar with products like Exadata. Well, you can buy an Exadata. You can use the Exadata in the Oracle public cloud, or you can consume it as a cloud machine, something we call "cloud-to-customer" on premises. And I think that's an important differentiation. A lot of this market is focused on consolidating generic workloads. That's more moderately interesting to us. To your point, what we're really interested are the big, hairy ones. As I joke, these are the ones that have vice-presidents attached to them, right? Yeah, the ones that people really care about. >> Peter: And typically eight figures. >> Depends on the size of the company. Like, Mark was interviewing a lot of people, a lot of customers this morning, and some of them were not large shops. >> But even those partners that're serving those customers often have eight figures associated with their investment in Oracle as well, so it cascades out through the entire industry. But it's also, I want to ask you this, Chuck. It's also not always the applications that have to be brought forward, but we were talking about ageism and it's always better if it's new, but there's a lot of skills in the industry. It's not a question of we want to bring them along. That's still where a lot of the value's being created, so talk about how this third way is going to make not only existing customers and existing apps, but also existing skill sets more rapidly develop inside and experience the expertise with these new technologies. >> I think that's a very good important because any IT organization's only as good as their skill set portfolio. I think anybody who's worked with IT understands that. By the same token, look at the portfolio. Walk into an average IT shop. Here's the stuff that was built decades ago. Here's the stuff that's kind of modern client-server three-tier. Here's the new stuffs that were using containers and microservices. If you're going to be an enterprise cloud provider to that IT shop, you got to support the old stuff, you got to support the kind of current stuff, and you definitely got to give a little pathway to the new stuff, and give me the ability to evolve that portfolio, and peoples' skills forward at the same time. This is what my big arguments that most public cloud providers is public cloud is easy. Just blow everything up and start over in our cloud. Well, as attractive as that might sound, that may not just be a financial reality for the majority of IT organizations. >> Yeah, operationally, too, they can't run their business. So so much for the container stuff. Ravello was the new container cloud server. >> Two things. So we have Ravello and we have a new container cloud service. So we'll put that on Ravello. So we all know hypervisors virtualize hardware. Ravello virtualizes hypervisors. What it does is it comes in to a VC or KVM environment, lifts it up, strips off the hypervisor, encapsulates the network to storage and the compute, then you can actually choose your cloud. You want to run it on AWS, you want to run it on Google, or do you want to run on the Oracle cloud? And it'll show you the prices for each, and you can shop there, so the reason we think that's interesting is nobody really wants to get locked into anybody's cloud, and if we can give people workload portability through VMs, that's great. Well, that's for stuff that we wrapped with virtualization. What about the new containerization? Well, trick with containers is container management, and today, if you want to do container management, you got to graft some open-source stuff and basically build your own. What Oracle has done is created and end-to-end container management service that says, alright, if you really would like to build your own, have at it, but in the meantime, here's something that kind of works. We can do that on-premises, on our cloud machines. We can do this in public Oracle clouds. We have this fast-burning desire to do this on other people's clouds just as soon as we get our own stuff sorted out. But it's the same thing. If I'm developing an application, Oracle has to go compete for that infrastructure business. It can't just say, well, you're an Oracle customer, you have go on all our stuff. And it would be the rare IT leader that would accept lock-in at the cloud level. >> There's no reason to do it today. There's absolutely no reason to do that. >> They may choose to go with us. >> But even if they choose to go with you, they want to do so in a way that doesn't force the lock-in. >> We all flew here, did you pay attention to the flight attendant when she showed where the exit rows are and everything? You may not plan on using that, but it's nice to know they're there. >> And it's nice for you to know where they are, too. Because you guys have learned that to stay at the vanguard of the industry, you have to be always aware of who's about to eat your lunch. >> And I think the Oracle database did a good job back in the day, and still to this day of being affordable. You can invest in the database, it can go wherever you want. And we're trying to do the same thing for that application ecosystem. And we're trying to involve three categories. The old, legacy stuff, the somewhat contemporary stuff, and the emerging containers, microservices-based stuff. >> So talk about your partners, because I know that something that we've been talking about on theCUBE a fair amount is -- >> Partners, we got lots of them. Infrastructure partners in particular? >> John: Well, Centure has an announcement. >> There's a disco party going on behind us here. >> There sure is, unfortunately theCUBE sign's in the way. Otherwise I could participate in it. >> I can see. >> But come back to this notion of a lot of the value that has always been created in the Oracle ecosystems has been created in partners. I have this theory, we have this theory at Wikibon that ultimately there will be more examples of college suppliers being created by your customers and your partners than by individual like AWS and Oracle and Microsoft. >> So Oracle's always had a very rich partner ecosystem. Applications, development, to infrastructure. And the exciting thing that I'm seeing with out partners is like they're seeing opportunity. So let's say that you have this cool vertical application. Five years ago your were selling on-prem hardware with all that entailed. Now you can run the in the Oracle cloud and simply sell a subscription service to your customers. You've evolved your business model forward. Folks that we partner with do application development. They have a platform now for application integration where they have vastly more capablites as opposed to the old school, got to go build it, got to go assemble it, etc, etc. The people who're feeling a little threatened by all of this not surprisingly, are the box-shifters, right? They're guys who just move hardware from A to B. And we're working with them, it's like there's still opportunity there. You just have to look up the stack a little bit. Their skills are still valid, they're just not assembling hardware. >> And you got a Centure announced that the business groups taking the infrastructure-to-service products out, that press release went out today. We covered that. >> I didn't know if that went out yet, but thanks for confirming. >> Oh, maybe that was embargoed, oops. >> Roll back, roll back, roll back. >> Put that back in the model, live TV. >> Centure, all these guys, they want to provide more value to their clients, and 10 years ago, that was stitching together hardware. Now it's about teaching them how to intelligently consume cloud. And I think what these partners like about the Oracle offering is designed to work the way enterprise IT works. It's not this, hey, here's our model, take it or leave it. >> One more thought on this, that there's a difference between the traditional, as you said, three-tier infrastructure, client-server innovation center, and some of the new analytic stuff that's on the horizon. Talk about how you guys are specifically focusing on some of the new analytics applications that are on the horizon coming into the cloud and how you intend to make the two worlds work better together. >> So I think that's great. Old-school analytics we used to call data warehousing, and business intelligence. That hasn't gone away. If you look back five years, it was all about big data, and mining values. Now we're moving to a phase of real-time decision making. Welcome to in-memory analytics things as fast as they can be. And once you figure out how to monetize data, it's addictive, you just want to do it faster and faster and faster and faster. Also, we're talking about relatively exotic infrastructure, right? Multi-terabyte memory spaces, shared Numa architectures. Pretty hard to go down to Best Buy and find the hardware for that and go build that, so as people start pushing the envelope, they're looking more for on-prem engineered solutions or more often, what can you do for me in the cloud. Interestingly enough, we talked about this gen-2 infrastructure service. One of the things it's very good at is having enormous memory spaces and very fast to compute, this kind of bare-metal compute we're seeing in real-time analytics. I think the other factor on this is internet of things, forgive me for playing buzzword bingo, the easy part is gathering the data. The real-time decisioning and actioning on it, that's heavy computing. >> Peter: And delivery with control. >> Yeah, delivering with control. You've got 10 million gas meters. Okay, how do I reason over that in real time, right? That kind of thing. >> So I had to ask you, we've been hearing about this spark-based exadata, what it's all about. What's that all about, is it a new product? >> Another member in the family. So you guys probably know the headlines on the spark chip has a couple of unique talents. It's got 32 encryption processors, so it can encrypt in real time, no delay. Has this ability to take queries and run them in silicon. It also has the ability to compress and decompress memory for in-memory analytics. So the exadata is basically a purpose-built, engineered system for database, so by taking our processor technology and putting it in this purpose-built machine, it gets a whole bunch of new talents for no more money because again, that's part of our differentiation. Things I've learned since I've been a year at Oracle is it's nice to have your own chips. Sometimes they come in very very handy as you build differentiated solutions, so I think exadata customers will have a new option, and I'm sure in the fullness of time it'll be available in our public cloud, it'll be available as a cloud -- >> But this brings up a good point, though. Intel was on stage yesterday, gave the same old corporate pitch, didn't really learn anything new there. >> Chuck: They had nice slides, though. >> That Ian Bryant's awesome. But the thing is, and Larry said that I find compelling is now that I can get your thoughts on it because it kind of comes back to the hyperconversion trend, which is he said, "we are going to provide it faster and cheaper." So he's clearly looking at infrastructures, bring this thing down, cost down to zero if possible, while performance he wants to bring up to a whole other level. How are you guys going to do that, what's the strategy? >> I think Larry and Oracle have the ability to invest like crazy. Don't forget, we build our own hardware. We build our own servers. We build our own data center fabrics. We don't have to buy this stuff from anybody. We build it, so Larry and the team, a couple years ago set this team up with a mission to go compete. Now if you've looked at Amazon, AWS margins, you know there's a lot of fat there. They're also running on really old stuff, the basic architecture was designed 10, 11 years ago. I don't want to throw aspersions around, but you could call it legacy cloud, right? >> John: What do you call it? >> Legacy cloud, anything 10 years or older, it's got to be legacy. So there's a clear opportunity to go build something new. That being said, this is a big boy's game. This is not let's round up a couple million dollars of VC and build a new cloud. So to look at the aggregate spend Oracle's putting behind this infrastructure -- >> Well, you just said the big boys are public, like Rackspace, they couldn't make it, right? So you're starting to see, they were a little, kind of a big boy, I mean... >> They're reasonable out there. But look at it this way, Oracle's got a national software franchise. Much like Microsoft does bring people on. We build our own hardware. We build our own data centers. We actually can become a vertical supplier in this and the argument is efficiency is result. >> So we're going to see Dave Donatelli on Wednesday after his keynote. I know he's prepping up for that. How's it going with Dave, what's going on with Dave? >> Dave's having a good time. I mean, we all came to Oracle on the same premise, is that the industry was rotating, and I think we've seen that in some of the analyst numbers, less and less on-premise spend, more and more spent in the cloud. >> A lot of new hires coming in from an industry that we know on Oracle, pre-existing players. >> And if you asked 'em five years ago if they ever would end up working for Oracle, they might have not said so. >> John: You're being polite. They'd say, "no friggin' way." >> Go through your mind and think what are the traditional on-prem IT vendors that transition their customers to the cloud? It would be a very short list. >> So you buy the whole cloud-broker Dell technologies? >> They don't have a cloud. I think customers want to consume cloud. >> Bing cloud air network now has 4,000 cloud providers. >> All slightly different, all slightly different. >> All working together with hypervisor. >> It's like a big portfolio management company. >> Is that a chess game, or is that just hail Mary? >> Vshpere was designed for the data centers. EMC bombed 10 years ago. Our tech's designed for the data center, and it wasn't designed for a world where people don't want data centers anymore. So I think VM ware's very challenged because their technology and business model is standing up viable public cloud options. The last big one was, oh no, we can't do it. We'll go to IBM. What's your cloud strategy, VM ware? Call IBM? That's kind of a rough deal on a sales call. >> Well, if you put it in the context of a V-cloud air network, you could argue that they're giving up the cloud. Basically, VM world, they said, "we're done with the cloud." they yielded -- >> Peter: I don't think they said that, John. >> They yielded that they weren't going to have their own cloud. >> Absolutely they yielded. >> They yielded on not having their own cloud. >> Okay, they yielded on their own cloud, that's what I meant. >> Nothing more than kind of a boutique offering, and certainly there's a market for small regional service providers around the world. No argument there. And there's a natural tendency, but as I look at people going to cloud, the sticking point isn't the hypervisor, the sticking point is the database and the applications, the middleware. This is something Microsoft has done brilliantly with Azure. >> Larry pointed out that's Ernie's call. Microsoft's well ahead of Oracle on migrating their install base half into their cloud. >> And that's what you guys have to try to figure out how to do as well. >> We're well along the way. But the point is that without that franchise, that's a tough road to hoe, right? The infrastructure guys maybe, the applications guys are the ones you want to talk to. >> Peter said, I'd like to get your thoughts on a comment Peter made on our intro with Matt Eastwood from IDC, everything's on the table. Ecosystems, channel partners, >> Chuck: And we're shaking the table apart. >> So if you have the gravity, an Oracle face of the world that's a suite, which I think is a little bit orthogonal to where the cloud is, but I get the language of Oracle the suite. Is it gravity around the suite, not a winner-take-all? >> You got to be able to pick off pieces and they have to stand on their own. >> You could build a ecosystem around that, and open ecosystem, so that means a new lock-in spec is stickyness, or pure performance, or not, am I getting that right? >> I think Oracle's going to try to play on both sides. If you appreciate the value of the suite, the IAS working with a pass, working with a Sass, great, we have all those pieces; pick and choose. Larry made it pretty clear. He wanted to go head-to-head on iops, memory and core, and dollars per whatever. Oracle intends to feed on that as well, so it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Nothing like a low price to get an IT buyer -- >> Well he said, and the word he called this is interesting, he was overselling in my opinion, I've heard Larry. >> Chuck: Larry? I can't imagine he'd do that. >> Larry was overselling on their earnings call, but I don't think the analysts understand, they don't see the long game. You look down the 20-mile stare, it just hasn't even started for Oracle. >> Larry is a master at the long game in ways that I'm just now starting to appreciate. >> Well, let's be honest. What is the most sticky thing in the industry? Your applications, that's the stickiest thing in the industry. After that, the developer ecosystem and then you get down to the hypervisor, and you get down to the first -- >> Chuck: And then you get to the wires that connect it together and all that kind of stuff. >> But the most sticky thing is the businesses are still run around some of these floor applications. >> Well, that's why I brought up the suite angle, because I think that the developer angle is sticky because agility has proven that not everyone can build a killer app, so for instance, with an HCM there's probably some feature of HCM that is sub-par relative to some genius entrepreneur that eats, breathes that one feature, has an app, that could be integrated into that feature. >> I think that's your point, and with the platform-as-a-service offering, oh, you want to add it, do something different, great. Yes, exactly. >> It's all a continuous development, continuous integration, but that continuity still is close to the application. >> Yeah, ecosystem to me is, I've heard talks about what the developers' market, go-to-market strategy is. If that's in place, Oracle could have a very robust -- >> We're seeing the both the same thing on the hardware and the software. So hardware, build-your-own, is starting to get out of bow, ya know? Less and less popular buying servers and storage and knitting them together. A lot of guys still buy into that, but that market's going down. I think you're going to see the same thing with software and applications. Rather than starting with a blank piece of paper, where are the big chunks of enterprise functionality that I can grab out of the box and build the thing -- >> Reused, preexisting applications. >> Yes, yes! >> Everybody's talking about business capabilities, right? And the idea is that this capability is the things that I have to do to perform the activities to fit my business needs. And those activities are people, and increasingly, software. And being able to grab those capabilites and pick parts of them from the industry and weave them together quickly, continuously sustained, the match with the marketplace, to your point -- >> Well, we're going to have Juan Luzon next, and we're going to go deep on this, but I think -- >> That was a great guy. >> The API economy, if anything, showed us one, security is FUBARed and needs to be fixed fast, and the encryption on a chip thing has been downplayed. I don't know why Fowler's not getting more airtime on that. That's a really huge thing, but the API economy has proven that this ability to pull stuff that someone else has already done, not assembling like a junkyard kind of situation, why build it if someone's got to get it though an API? >> You talk about giving capital management, right? And you know, there's 175 functions, I don't know, some large number of function there, they're fine. I need this one little thing, so I'm just going to extend it, and still do it in such a way that I'm not developing -- >> And a developer who does that becomes a feature in a bigger pie. I mean, he'll make more money, doesn't go out of business, doesn't try to go public. >> So I wanted to share, before we wrapped up, one interesting thought. We all talked about cloud is coming, cloud is coming. I actually got tangible evidence at the beginning of the year that it's here. So a new word was given to me, cloud quotas. Cloud quotas, and it was kind of funny. This is happening mostly in the larger banks. Senior management, executive management, you're a little slow on this cloud thing. Let me help you out. We'll set a strategic objective. Five years from now, how much did we cloud-spend? This year, your cloud quota is 15% between cloud and non-cloud spent. Next year, etc, and I think what we're seeing is that kind of like the gears are starting to rub, between the businesses says, guys, this can't be so hard. Let's get on with it. >> I'm sure your sales guys have cloud quotas, too. >> Different kind of cloud quota. Different kind of cloud quota. >> On that point, 20 years ago, when it became very popular to pay executives on the basis of RONA, return on net assets, it was right about that time that outsourcing got popular. >> Shocking, isn't that, your mess for less, right? >> Sounds like cloud. >> Okay, bottom line, for the folks at home, Oracle's infrastructure stuff that you're involved in is not new, but it's growing now because it didn't have a lot of nurturing. It was always kind of like that back office secret sauce. What's the update, give a quick update. >> We want to give people a strategy for their enterprise applications for cloud. If they want to consume on-prem, great. Engineered system's cloud equivalence. You want to consume off-prem, same set of capabilites and more in our public cloud. You want to consume the public cloud in your data center, that's a cloud machine, and it oughtta be the technology stack and the set of capabilities. Geographical location, the consumption model really doesn't matter, and when we put this in front of large IT shops, and even smaller ones, they're like, this is great. I can build my architecture, I can build my strategy. I don't have to make a cloud decision now, and if I do make one, then I can undo it later. That agility has become very very attractive to people. >> I could invest in options but have a future. >> Chuck Hollis, Senior Vice-President of infrastructure, congratulations, and then Larry Ellison got to the end of his keynote, didn't have a lot of time, but there's a lot of meat on the bone in the keynote, that he kind of, he couldn't hit. Welcome to the cloud, too many product announcements. Welcome to Amazon's world. >> Peter: Seems excited. >> There's a lot of stuff coming down. It was great talking to you guys, thanks for your time. >> Thanks for sharing your insight and the data and the bits here. Here at theCUBE, we're always sending out the packets of content out to the network, live, original content. I'm John for Peter Burris with SiliconANGLE theCUBE. We'll be right back with more live coverage after this short break. >> Hi, I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of

>> Voiceover: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering SAPPHIRE NOW. Headline sponsored by SAP Hana Cloud, the leader in Platform-as-a-Service. With support from Console Inc. the Cloud internet company. Now, here's your host, John Furrier. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We are here live at SAPPHIRE NOW, SAP's big user conference. This is theCube, SiliconANGLE's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signals from noise. Day three of wall-to-wall coverage, this is day three. We had awesome interviews, go to youtube.com/siliconangle and look for the playlist of SAPPHIRE NOW, it'd be great, great videos out there. We would not be here if it wasn't for our sponsors, so shout out to SAP Hana Cloud Platform, Console Inc., Console Cloud, the Interconnect Companies, for interconnecting the clouds, and, of course, EMC Capgemini, thanks for your support. Our next guest is Uddhav Gupta, who's the Global Vice President for the SAP Platform-as-a-Service. Great to see you, we'll shake hands. >> Good to see you, John. >> So, we have been so excited about Platform-as-a-Service going back, man, almost when the Clouderati started. You know, almost seven years ago, when we started SiliconANGLE. We saw pre-OpenStack, Amazon was already on a trajectory, OpenStack kind of, Rackspace kind of bootstraps that, and then the rest is history, now you have Cloud Foundry, all this stuff is coming together. So, you guys have a big part of that developer ecosystem. >> Yes, we do. >> What do you do for the platforms-of-service for SAP, and what are some of the things you're working on, what should the audience know about that you're working on. >> Absolutely, so, first of all, thank you for having me on the show. We at Hana Cloud Platform, is basically a idea that we came up with to help our customers solve the biggest problem of complicated application development. And when we spoke to the customers, the typical thing that came back to us is, I want to actually integrate applications, right? I have incipient backing systems, I have non-incipient backing systems, how to bring these two systems together? I typically build an application, a mash-up for the audience. The second scenario that we basically solve, is, a lot of customers came back and said, we want to just extend certain business processes that are running on the back end, and you know, build applications that actually sit and extend these processes. So, we started looking at all of that, we said, okay, it's very clear, that we want to simplify the core. But we also wanted to go out and provide a simplified application development stack, so that people actually go out and build these applications. And that's what Hana Cloud Platform is all about. >> So the approach is not so much come from the infrastructure of the service, but come down from the app. Okay, well Larry Ellison, at Oracle, he said as well, well, you come up from the hardware, they got SUN, and then he comes down from the top, and their middleware is Oracle, a similar approach. And that's a great message, because that's his focus, is obviously app, but they got SUN, so they can kind of clean and they can book in the middleware, if you will, or past layer. Um, how do you guys compare vis-a-vis that, because you don't have any hardware. >> Correct. >> You got partners. >> Correct. >> Um, like EMC, then you got the Vblock going back to the day. >> Exactly. >> How do you answer to that? >> So we have always been agnostic in terms of hardware, agnostic in terms of infrastructure. So the angle that we're going with is just like how we did with Hana. We said, we'll build the Hana software, and we'll have it available on multiple different platforms. We are doing the same thing with the Hana Cloud Platform. Today, we offered it off our own SAP data center. The road map is to basically partner with a number of infrastructure providers, like Amazon, like Azio, like other third-party hosting providers-- >> You'd okay the computers? >> Yeah, completely. So if you're actually looking at going ahead and deploying our software on Cloud Form Read, enabling it on OpenStack, so we can actually now take it to all of our infrastructure partners, and use them as suppliers. That way, we can actually concentrate on building a business Platform-as-a-Service layer, concentrate on building the mechanics. Building the intelligence of the Platform-as-a-Service, and leave the infrastructure game to the guys who are really good at that. Which are Amazon, Azio, and a few others. >> So, you guys have Hana, okay, Hana database as well, the platform is Hana Cloud Platform, so, back to the Oracle thing, and I bring up Oracles there, we can relate to that. They claim performance advantage, so Oracle on Oracle, with SUN, has been optimized. It's almost end-to-end stacked. You guys worried about performance at all? Can you share your thoughts on how you answer that? >> Of course, I mean, if you look at the whole team of Sapphire here, that's been about running a business life. You can't run a business life without having performance. So performance is the core of everything that we're doing. Whether it's running a database that's high-speed. Whether it's simplifying the entire application stack, the S/4Hana, running at high-speed. It's also about an innovation cycle around it that needs to also be high-speed. And when we're building the Hana Cloud Platform, we've actually look into those elements continuously, and saying, how can we help application development also run at high-performance? This is around the computer. This is around the database. This is around the tool set that we actually providing our partner ecosystem, as well as the customers, to build custom applications at really high speeds. >> Okay, talk about, um, the Hana Cloud Platform. Expand, and take a minute to explain, because, I think that, you know, seeing on the opening day, you guys aren't getting the kind of credit in the press and in the market, although you're being successful, um, as the cloud. Some people say, oh they have nothin'. Platform-as-a-service, it's just SAP ware. Answer that, explain, take a minute to explain, what you guys have done, in the market, how it's different, and then it does work for non-SAP customers. So, kind of dice that out for us, share that. Take a minute to explain that. >> Absolutely, going to Sapphire, a lot of our customers and a lot of the press, media, also thought that Hana Cloud Platform is just for SAP. Now, after two days of conversations with customers, they quickly realize, that we're not just, like, for SAP, we could actually be the Force.com or the application platform for merging data from SAP and non-SAP, right? So that's the first revelation a lot of the customers have got. I find many of the customers that had this, aha moment, when I was talking to them, and they're like, "Oh, I can actually solve a number of issues with this. "I can actually go out and provide a single "application development layer across "my entire backing system, which is SAP and non-SAP." So we've seen a lot of that reaction. >> So that's an integration game, too. And the thing I would share were the folks at my observation of theCube, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this, is that, it's not trying to win SAP end-to-end. SAP plays well wherever the customer desires it, right? So if they go to ERP, or not ERP. If you want to come and and do, say, HR stuff. And success factors. You're still going to have a little bit of SAP, but this is application layer at the Hana Cloud Platform, is for the rest of the enterprise. It's not to lock in for future SAP, right? >> It's not a lock-in story here, right? I'll give you an example. We are doing some really crazy stuff on Hana Cloud Platform, right. You know the Superbowl that took place in San Francisco. >> Of course, Superbowl 50. >> SAP had a whole fan energy zone set up there, where people were actually playing games. And we are continuously streaming data from those games into the Hana Cloud Platform, right? Now, nothing to do with SAP, nothing to do with anything that even closely SAP's associated with. It's fan data coming to the Hana Cloud Platform. And people seeing analytics on top of it, right? We're having other partners also do similar stuff. I'm talking to partners that are basically going ahead and serving the utility companies, but more on the utility to the consumers piece. With the outlying customers to basically go and create a aggregated view of the consumptions, right? And this is a look at something not what SAP's used to doing. Bringing in the Hana Cloud Platform is allowing them to do such things. >> Alright, so my final question really is around Apple. So, how does the Apple deal affect you guys in particular. Because, you guys can't hide in the shadows anymore. You got to go for- go big or go home with Hana Cloud Platform. So does that change your game in terms if you go to market, is your budget increased? I mean you got, the game is on. The Apple deal puts the pressure on you guys to take that relationship, and use it as a way to get into, obviously means for your development. Swift is a great programming language, got a lot of traction. So tell me, I mean, is it all in now? I mean Apple is Apple that, hey, you got to go for it. Go big or go home. >> Yeah, so, it's definitely go big. The other thing that we have with this whole Apple relationship that we announced, has also made a very beautiful point, if you think about it, right? There're certain applications that can be web applications that you can still render on a mobile device, sure. You can make them extremely responsive, you can do all of that kind of stuff. But the beauty of the IOS and the relationship that we built with Apple, it allows you to start now building native applications that run on the mobile, but consume all the technical services that we have, are made available in the Hana Cloud Platform. >> And the data's critical there, I mean, SAP's got ARP data, systems of record data. And now you're expanding out to other engagement data, non-SAP data by the way. >> Exactly, and all the other technology services that we're basically providing in the Hana Cloud Platform with it's content, with it's data, with it's integration, a whole bunch of stuff, right? >> So is your budget doubled? >> Well the budget is not doubled, definitely right. >> Yeah but you have to, you have to run now so it's pretty clear for you guys, right? I mean, explain, is that the mandate? I mean, because you guys have been kind of like, silent run- I say silent run, not stealth, but I mean you been, chipping away at it, it's been a ground game for SAP Hana Cloud, haven't seen a lot of stuff out there in the market. It seems to me that now, the pressure's on. So go knock it out of the park, right? >> Absolutely, the focus on basically building mobile applications, specific mobile applications, for certain industries, is definitely coming back. So a lot of investment is happening in that space for sure, from SAP, from Apple, also from our partners. So that investment is definitely happening. There's also a lot of traction that we are basically putting on marketing that uh, concept out, so that our partner, the customers also get a true pat forward and a grain in how they should actually invest their resources. >> What's you priorities this year? Education, onboarding new-- >> Our priorities this year is getting a whole bunch of developers to actually start using the Hana Cloud Platform. To that extent, what we've actually done is we've gone ahead and created open SAP courses that allows anybody to access education on Hana Cloud Platform, absolutely free. With the IOS relationship we've gone out and basically created IOS academy. A lot of people understand how to build IOS apps, with the Hana Cloud Platform, thereby bridging the 150,000 developers that are already in the Hana Cloud Platform, the two million developers of the SAP network, and the 30 million developers of the Apple world, all coming together to start building stuff on the Hana Cloud Platform. >> I'm sure you've got some internal debates, like percentage of penetration within that 35 million, I mean, not everyone's going to be interested in enterprise programming but, a good slice will look to build white spaces. >> Absolutely, because, guess what? You can only earn that much money by building consumer apps. The moment you are a developer and you really want to earn serious money, you basically start looking at building enterprise apps. >> Final final question, because I have one more, this is good conversation, uh, where are the white spaces? So the developers that are watching, or people that are interested, in innovating on SAP, where do you guys see the white spaces that are low-hanging fruit right now, that someone can get a position in here and work? >> So, there're a number of those. Uh, the very first one around building industry-specific apps, right? To a large part of the industry, UAX was our SAP gooey. But now, everybody want to actually start digitizing those processes. Nobody actually wants to go into a static screen, or a pre-defined screen. They want it to be very responsive to what they're doing at the moment. It's alive, right? So, building those apps is definitely a white space. The second big white space is around building industry content. What I mean by industry content is, a platform can basically provide you all the platform capabilities that are required. But you need a lot more of the content and the technologies services. This could be matching learning algorithms, this could be actually predictive algorithms, this could be data content that is coming in. Building and providing data as a micro-service within the platform is something that is very interesting for us. >> Thanks so much for coming on theCube, I'll give you the final word Uddhav Gupta, Global Vice President of SAP, Platform-as-a-Service. What's the vibe of the show, you mentioned, what's the hallway conversations that you're hearing. You know, what's going on with the night, certainly at night with all those events going on, last night I went to bed early, watched the Warriors game. Win by 30-something points. Night before I was out til 1:30 doing some networking to Lloyd Bardy, S. Ensher, EY, seeing all the SAP people. Lot of chatter, what are you hearing? What are you hearing in the hallways? >> The vibe is very very positive. People are starting to finally understand how we are bringing all the Cloud acquisitions that we made together. People are starting to understand that they have to move to the Cloud. So the whole thing about the myth, whether we move or do not move to the Cloud, it's now kind of settled down. People are understanding where SAP is with integration, where SAP is with moving to the Cloud. But, the beauty is, last year, same time, the questions I was getting, was is any of this real? The question that we're getting now is, how do I engage into it? How do I start doing it? So that transition's happened really beautifully. Whether you think about S/4Hana, whether you think about Hana Cloud Platform, just in general, what's happening in the past well is helping that quite a lot. >> You guys have done a good job and you've been kind of transitioning, now it's real. You got a straight-and-narrow for developers. I'm looking forward to tracking you guys and seeing the progress. Great hallway conversations, of course the biggest conversation was that Reggie Jackson was on theCube, on day one and he was awesome, also the great executives come on with great conversation. Thanks so much for sharing your insight on theCube, Hana Cloud Platform-as-a-Service. We are live here in Orlando, you're watchin' theCube.

>> Voiceover: From Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering Sapphire now, headline sponsored by SAP, Hana, the Cloud, the leader in Platform as a service, with support from Console Inc, the cloud internet company, now here are your hosts, John Furrier, and Peter Burris. >> Hey welcome back everyone, we are here live at SAP Sapphire in Orlando, Florida, this is theCube, Silicon Angle Media's flagship program, we go out to the events and extract the scene of the noise, I'm John Furrier with my co-host Peter Burris, our next guest is Matt Hayes, VP of SAP Business, Attunity, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you, thank you so much. >> So great to have you on, get the update on Attunity. You've been on theCube many times, you guys have been great supporters of theCube, appreciate that, and want to get a little update, so obviously Attunity, it's all about big data, Hana is a big data machine, it does a lot of things fast, certainly analystics being talked about here, but how do you guys fit in with SAP, what's your role here? How does it fit? >> Sure sure, well I think this is our ninth of tenth time here at Sapphire, we've been in the ecosystem for quite some time, our Gold Client solution is really designed to help SAP customers move data from production to non-production systems, and now, more throughout the landscape, or the enterprise even, so as SAP's evolved, we've evolved with SAP and a lot of our customers get a lot of value by taking real-life production data out of their production system, and moving that to non-production systems, training, sandbox, test environments. Some customer's use it for troubleshooting, you know, you have a problem with some data in production, you can bring that into a non-production system and test that, and some scrambling capabilities as well. Most SAP customers have a lot of risk if their copying the production data into non-production systems that are less secure, less regulated, so some of the data scrambling or obfuscation techniques that we have make it so that that data can safely go into those non-production systems and be protected. >> What's been your evolution? I mean obviously you mentioned you guys been evolving with SAP, so what is the current evolution? What's the highlight, what's the focus? >> So, obviously Hana has been the focus for quite some time and it still is, more and more of our customer's are moving to Hana, and adopting that technology, less so with S4, because that's kind of a newer phase, so a lot of people are making the two step approach of going to Hana, and then looking at S4, but Cloud as well, we can really aid in that Cloud enablement, because the scrambling. When we can scramble that sensitive data, it helps customer's feel comfortable and confident that they can put vendor and customer and other sensitive data in a Cloud based environment. >> And where are you guys winning? So what's the main thrust of why you guys are doing business in the SAP ecosystem. >> So with SAP you're always looking to do things better. And when you do things better, it results in cost savings on your project, and if you could save money on your project and do things smarter, you free up peoples time to focus on the fun projects, to focus on Hana, to focus on Cloud, and with our software, with our technology, by copying that data and providing real production data in the development and sandbox environments, we're impacting and improving the change control processes, we're impacting and improving the testing processes within companies, we're enabling some automation of some of those processes. >> Getting things up and running faster in the POC or Development environment? Real data? >> Yeah because you can be more nimble if you have real production data that you're working with while you're prototyping, you can make changes faster, you can be more confident in what you're promoting to production, you can be avoiding having a bad transport or a bad change going into the production environment and impact your business. So if you're not having to worry about that kind of stuff, you can worry about the fun stuff. You can look at Hana, you can look at Cloud, you can look at some of the newer technologies that SAP is providing. >> So, you guys grew up and matured, as you said, you've grown as SAP has grown, SAP used to be regarded as largely an applications company, now SAP, you know the S4, Hana platform, is a platform, and SAP's talking about partnerships, they're talking about making this whole platform even more available, accessible, to new developers through the Apple partnership etcetera, creates a new dynamic for you guys who have historically been focused on being able to automate the movement of data, certain data, certain processes, how are you preparing to potentially have to accommodate an accelerated rate of digitization as a consequence of all these partners, now working at SAP as a platform? >> That's a great question, and it's actually, it aligns with Attunity's vision and direction as well, so SAP, like you said, used to be an applications company, now it's an applications company with a full platform integrated all the way around, and Attunity is the same way, we came to Attunity through acquisition, and bringing our SAP Gold Client technology, but now we're expanding that, we're expanding it so that we can provide SAP data to other parts of the enterprise, we can combine data, we can combine highly structured SAP data with unstructured data, such as IOT Data, or social media streams in Hadoop, so the big data vision for Attunity is what's key, and right now we're in the process of blending what we do with SAP, with big data, which happens to align with SAP's platform. You know SAP is obviously helping customers move to Hana on the application side, but there's a whole analytics realm to it, that's even a bigger part of SAP's business right now, and that's kind of where we fit in. We're looking at those technologies, we're looking at how we can get data in and out of Hadoop, SAP Data in and out of Hadoop, how we can blend that with non SAP Data, to provide business value to SAP customers through that. >> Are you guys mainly focused on Fren, or are you also helping customer's move stuff into and out of Clouds and inside a hybrid cloud environment? >> Both actually, most SAP customer's are on Premise, so most of our focus is on Premise, we've seen a lot of customers move to the Cloud, either partial or completely. For those customers, they can use our technology the exact same way, and Attunity's replication software works on Prem and in the Cloud as well. So Cloud is definitely a big focus. Also, our relationship with Amazon, and Red Shift, there's a lot of Cloud capabilities and needs for moving data between on Premise and the Cloud, and back and forth. >> As businesses build increasingly complex workloads, which they clearly are, from a business stand point, they're trying to simplify the underlying infrastructure and technology, but they're trying to support increasingly complex types of work. How do you anticipate that the ecosystems ability to be able to map this on to technology is going to impact the role that data movement plays. Let me be a little bit more specific, historically, there were certain rules about how much data could be moved and how much work could be done in a single or a group of transactions. We anticipate that the lost art of data architecture across distances, more complex applications, it's going to become more important, are you being asked by your customers to help them think through, in a global basis, the challenges of data movement, as a set of flows within the enterprise, and not just point to point types of integration? >> I think we're starting to see that. I think it's definitely an evolving aspect of what's going on as, some low level examples that I can share with you on that are, we have some large global customers that have regional SAP environments, they might run one for North America, one for South America, Europe, and Asia-Pacific. Well they're consolidating them, some of those restrictions have been removed and now they're working on consolidating those regional instances into one global SAP instance. And if they're using that as a catalyst to move to Hana, that's really where you're getting into that realm where you're taking pieces that used to have to be distributed and broken up, and bringing them together, and if you can bring the structured enterprise application data on the SAP side together, now you can start moving towards some of the other aspects of the data like the analytics pieces. >> But you still have to worry about IOT, which is where are we going to process the data? Are we going to bring it back? Are we going to do it locally? You're worrying about sources external to your business, how you're going to move them in so that their intellectual property is controlled, my intellectual property is controlled, there's a lot of work that has to go in to thinking about the role that data movement is going to play within business design. >> Absolutely, and I actually think that that's part of the pieces that need to evolve over the next couple of years, it's kind of like the first time that you were here and heard about Hana, and here we are eight years later, and we understand the vision and the roadmap that that's played. That's happening now too, when you talk to SAP customers, some of them have clearly adopted the Hadoop technology and figured out how to make that work. You've got SAP Vora technology to bring data in and out of Hana from Hadoop, but that stuff is all brand new, we're not talking to a lot of customers that are using those. They're on the roadmap, they're looking at ways to do it, how to do it, but right now it's part of the roadmap. I think what's going to be key for us at Attunity is really helping customers blend that data, that IOT data, that social media stream data, with structured data from SAP. If I can take my customer master out of SAP and have that participate with IOT data, or if I can take my equipment master data out of SAP and combine that with Vlog data, IOT Data, I can start really doing predictive analytics, and if I can do those predictive analytics, with that unstructured data, I can use that to automate features within my enterprise application, so for example, if I know a part's going to fail, between 500 and 1000 hours of use, then I can proactively create maintenance tickets, or service notifications or something, so we can repair the device before it actually breaks. >> So talk about the, for the folks out there who want to kind of know the Attunity story a bit more, take a minute to explain kind of where you fit in, and where you, where SAP hands off to you, and where you fit specifically because big data management, there's are important technologies, but some say, well doesn't SAP have that? So where's the hand off? Where do you guys sister up against these guys the best? How should customers, or potential customers, know when to call you and what not. >> So, I often refer to SAP as a 747 Jumbo Jet right? So it's the big plane, and it's got everything in it. Anything at all, and all that you need to do, you could probably do it somewhere inside of SAP. There's an application for it, there's a platform for it, there's now a database for it, there's everything. So, a lot of customers work only in that realm, but there's a lot of customers that work outside of that too, SAP's an important part of the enterprise landscape, but there's other pieces too. >> People are nibbling at the solution, not fully baked out SAP. >> Right, right. >> You do one App. >> Yeah, and SAP's great at providing tools for example, to load data into Hana, there's a lot of capability to take non-SAP source data and bring it into Hana. But, what if you want to move that data around? What if you wanted to do some things different with it? What if you wanted to move some data out and back in? What if you want to, you know there's just a lot of things you want to be able to do with the data, and if you're all in on the SAP side, and you're all into the Hana platform, and that's what you're doing, you've probably got all the pieces to do that. But if you've got some pieces that are outside of that, and you need it all to play together, that's where Attunity comes in great, because Attunity has that, we're impartial to that, we can take data and move it around wherever, of course SAP is a really important part of our play in what we do, but we need to understand what the customers are doing, and everyday we talk to customers that are always looking, >> Give an example, give it a good example of that, customer that you've worked with, use a case. >> Yeah, let's see, most of my examples are going to be SAP centric, >> That's okay. >> We've got a couple of customers, I don't know if I can mention their names, where they come to us and say, "Hey we've got all this SAP data, and we might have 30 different SAP systems and we need all of that SAP data to pull together for us to be able to analyze it, and then we have non-SAP data that we want to partner with that as well. There might be terra-data, there might be Hadoop, might be some Oracle applications that are external that touch in, and these companies have these complex visions of figuring out how to do it, so when you look at Attunity and what we provide, we've got all these great solutions, we've got the replication technology, we've got the data model on the SAP side to copy the SAP data, we now have the data warehouse automation solution with Compose that keeps finding niche ways to work in, to be highly viable. >> But the main purpose is moving data around within SAP, give or take the Jumbo Jet, or 737. >> Well sometimes you just got to go down to the store and buy a half gallon of milk, right? And you're not going to jump on a Jumbo Jet to go down and get the milk. >> Right. >> You need tooling that makes it easy to get it. >> Got milk, it's the new slogan. Got data. >> Well there you go, the marketing side now. >> Okay so, vibe of the show, what's your take at SAP here, you've been here nine years, you've been looking around the landscape, you guys have been evolving with it, certainly it's exciting now. You're hearing really concrete examples of SAP showing some of the dashboards that McDermott's been showing every year, I remember when the iPad came out, "Oh the iPad's the most amazing thing", of course analytics is pretty obvious. That stuffs now coming to fruition, so there's a lot of growth going on, what's your vibe of the show? You seeing that, can you share any color commentary? Hallway conversations? >> Yeah, Sapphire's, you know, you get everything. You know it's like you said, the half gallon of milk, well we're at the supermarket right now, you need milk, you need eggs, you need flowers, whatever you need is here. >> The cake can be baked, if you have all the ingredients, Steve Job's says "put good frosting on it". (laughs) That's a UX. >> Lots of butter and lots of sugar. But yeah there's so many different focuses here at Sapphire, that it's a very broad show and you have an opportunity, for us it's a great opportunity to work with our partners closer, and it's also a good opportunity to talk to out customers, and certain levels within our customers, CIO's, VIP's. >> They're all together, they're all here. >> Right exactly, and you get to hear what their broader vision is, because every day we're talking to customers, and yeah we're hearing their broader vision, but here we hear more of it in a very confined space, and we get to map that up against our roadmap and see what we're doing and kind of say, yeah we're on the right track, I mean we need to be on the right track in two fronts. First and foremost with our customers, and second of all with SAP. And part of our long term success has been watching SAP and saying "okay, we can see where they're going with this, we can see where they're going with this, and this one they're driving really fast on, we've got to get on this track, you know, Hana. >> So the folks watching that aren't here, any highlights that you'd like to share? >> Wow, well you guys said yourself, Reggie Jackson was here the other night, that was pretty fantastic. I'm a huge baseball fan, go Cubby's, but it was fun to see Reggie Jackson. >> Park Ball, you know you had a share of calamities, I'm a Red Sox's man. >> Yeah you're wounds have been healed though (laughs). >> We've had the Holy Water been thrown from Babe Ruth. It was great that Reggie though was interesting, because we talk about a baseball concept that was about the unwritten rules, we saw Batista get cold-cocked a couple of days ago, and it brought up this whole unwritten rules, and we kind of had a tie in to business, which is the rules are changing, certainly in the business that we're in, and he talked about the unwritten rules of Baseball and at the end he said, "No, they aren't unwritten rules, they're written" And he was hardcore like MLB should not be messing with the game. >> Yeah. >> I mean Batista got fined, I think, what, five games? Was that the key mount? >> Yeah, yup. >> Didn't he get one game, and the guy that punched him got eight. >> That's right, he got it, eight games, that's right. So okay, MLB's putting pressure on them for structuring the game, should we let this stuff go? We came in late, second base, okay, what's your take on that? >> Well I mean as a Baseball fan I love the unwritten rules, I love the fact that the players police the game. >> Well that's what he was talking about, in his mind that's exactly what he was saying. That the rules amongst the players for policing the game are very, very well understood, and if Baseball tries to legislate and take it out of the players hands, it's going to lead to a whole bunch of chaotic behavior, and it's probably right. >> Yeah, and you've already got replay, and what was it, the Met's guy said he misses arguing with the umpires, and the next day he got thrown out (laughs). >> Probably means he wanted to get thrown out, needed a day off. What's going on with Attunity, what's next for you guys? What's next show, what's put on the business,. >> So, show-wise this is one of our most important shows of the year, events of the year, well I'll always be a tech-head, tech-heads are very targeted audience for us, we have a new version of Gold Client that's out a bit later this month, more under the hood stuff, just making things faster, and aligning it better with Hana and things like that, but we're really focused on integrating the solutions at Attunity right now. I mean you look at Attunity and Attunity had grown by acquisition, the RepliWeb acquisition in '11, and the acquisition of my company in 2013, we've added Compose, we've added Visibility, so now we've got this breath of solutions here and we're now knitting them together, and they're really coming together nicely. The Compose product, the data warehouse automation, I mean it's a new concept, but every time we show it to somebody they love it. You can't really point it at a SAP database, cause the data mile's too complex, but for data warehouse's of applications that have simple data models where you just need to do some data warehousing, basic data warehouses, it's phenomenal. And we've even figured out with SAP how we can break down certain aspects of that data, like just the financial data. If we just break down the financial data, can we create some replication and some change data capture there using the replicate technology and then feed it into Compose, provide a simple data warehouse solution that basic users can use. You know, you've got your BW, you've got your business objects and all that, but there's always that lower level, we're always talking to customers where they're still doing stuff like downloading contents of tables into spreadsheets and working with it, so Compose kind of a niche there. The visibility being able to identify what data's being used and what's not used, we're looking at combining that and pointing that at an SAP system and combining that with archiving technology and data retention technologies to figure out how we can tell a customer, alright here's your data retention policies, but here's where you're touching and not touching your data, and how can we move that around and get that out. >> Great stuff Matt, thanks for coming on theCube, appreciate that, if anything else I got to congratulate you on your success and, again, it's early stages and it's just going to get bigger and bigger, you know having that robust platform, and remember, not everyone runs their entire business on SAP, so there's a lot of other data warehouses coming round the corner. >> Yeah that's for sure, and we're well positioned and well aligned to deal with all types of data, me as an SAP guy, I love working with SAP data, but we've got a broader vision, and I think our broader visions really align nicely with what our customers want. >> Inter-operating the data, making it work for you, Got Data's new slogan here on theCube, we're going to coin that, 'Got Milk', 'Got Data'. Thanks to Peter Burris, bringing the magic here on theCube, we are live in Orlando, you're watching theCube. (techno music) >> Voiceover: There'll be millions of people in the near future that will want to be involved in their own personal well-being and wellness.