>>Welcome to the Cube's Continuing coverage of AMD's fourth generation Epic launch. I'm Dave Nicholson and I'm joining you here in our Palo Alto Studios. We have two very interesting guests to dive into some of the announcements that have been made and maybe take a look at this from an AI and ML perspective. Our first guest is Milland Doley. He's a senior director for software and solutions at amd, and we're also joined by Shamus Jones, who's a director of server engineering at Dell Technologies. Welcome gentlemen. How are you? >>Very good, thank >>You. Welcome to the Cube. So let's start out really quickly, Shamus, what, give us a thumbnail sketch of what you do at Dell. >>Yeah, so I'm the director of technical marketing engineering here at Dell, and our team really takes a look at the technical server portfolio and solutions and ensures that we can look at, you know, the performance metrics, benchmarks, and performance characteristics, so that way we can give customers a good idea of what they can expect from the server portfolio when they're looking to buy Power Edge from Dell. >>Milland, how about you? What's, what's new at a M D? What do you do there? >>Great to be here. Thank you for having me at amd, I'm the senior director of performance engineering and ISV ecosystem enablement, which is a long winter way of saying we do a lot of benchmarks, improved performance and demonstrate with wonderful partners such as Shamus and Dell, the combined leverage that AMD four generation processes and Dell systems can bring to bear on a multitude of applications across the industry spectrum. >>Shamus, talk about that relationship a little bit more. The relationship between a M D and Dell. How far back does it go? What does it look like in practical terms? >>Absolutely. So, you know, ever since AM MD reentered the server space, we've had a very close relationship. You know, it's one of those things where we are offering solutions that are out there to our customers no matter what generation A portfolio, if they're, if they're demanding either from their competitor or a m d, we offer a portfolio solutions that are out there. What we're finding is that within their generational improvements, they're just getting better and better and better. Really exciting things happening from a m D at the moment, and we're seeing that as we engineer those CPU stacks into our, our server portfolio, you know, we're really seeing unprecedented performance across the board. So excited about the, the history, you know, my team and Lin's team work very closely together, so much so that we were communicating almost on a daily basis around portfolio platforms and updates around the, the, the benchmarks testing and, and validation efforts. >>So Melind, are you happy with these PowerEdge boxes that Seamus is building to, to house, to house your baby? >>We are delighted, you know, it's hard to find stronger partners than Shamus and Dell with AMD's, second generation epic service CPUs. We already had undisputable industry performance leadership, and then with the third and now the fourth generation CPUs, we've just increased our lead with competition. We've got so many outstanding features at the platform, at the CPU level, everybody focuses on the high core counts, but there's also the DDR five, the memory, the io, and the storage subsystem. So we believe we have a fantastic performance and performance per dollar performance per what edge over competition, and we look to partners such as Dell to help us showcase that leadership. >>Well. So Shay Yeah, through Yeah, go ahead >>Dave. What, what I'd add, Dave, is that through the, the partnership that we've had, you know, we've been able to develop subsystems and platform features that historically we couldn't have really things around thermals power efficiency and, and efficiency within the platform. That means that customers can get the most out of their compute infrastructure. >>So this is gonna be a big question moving forward as next generation platforms are rolled out, there's the potential for people to have sticker shock. You talk about something that has eight or 12 cores in a, in a physical enclosure versus 96 cores, and, and I guess the, the question is, do the ROI and TCO numbers look good for someone to make that upgrade? Shamus, you wanna, you wanna hit that first or you guys are integrated? >>Absolutely, yeah, sorry. Absolutely. So we, I'll tell you what, at the moment, customers really can't afford not to upgrade at the moment, right? We've taken a look at the cost basis of keeping older infrastructure in place, let's say five or seven year old infrastructure servers that are, that are drawing more power maybe are, are poorly utilized within the infrastructure and take more and more effort and time to manage, maintain and, and really keep in production. So as customers look to upgrade or refresh their platforms, what we're finding right is that they can take a dynamic consolidation sometimes 5, 7, 8 to one consolidation depending on which platform they have as a historical and which one they're looking to upgrade to. Within AI specifically and machine learning frameworks, we're seeing really unprecedented performance. Lin's team partnered with us to deliver multiple benchmarks for the launch, some of which we're still continuing to see the goodness from things like TP C X AI as a framework, and I'm talking about here specifically the CPU U based performance. >>Even though in a lot of those AI frameworks, you would also expect to have GPUs, which all of the four platforms that we're offering on the AM MD portfolio today offer multiple G P U offerings. So we're seeing a balance between a huge amount of C P U gain and performance, as well as more and more GPU offerings within the platform. That was real, that was a real challenge for us because of the thermal challenges. I mean, you think GPUs are going up 300, 400 watt, these CPUs at 96 core are, are quite demanding thermally, but what we're able to do is through some, some unique smart cooling engineering within the, the PowerEdge portfolio, we can take a look at those platforms and make the most efficient use case by having things like telemetry within the platform so that way we can dynamically change fan speeds to get customers the best performance without throttling based on their need. >>Melin the cube was at the Supercomputing conference in Dallas this year, supercomputing conference 2022, and a lot of the discussion was around not only advances in microprocessor technology, but also advances in interconnect technology. How do you manage that sort of research partnership with Dell when you aren't strictly just focusing on the piece that you are bringing to the party? It's kind of a potluck, you know, we, we, we, we mentioned P C I E Gen five or 5.0, whatever you want to call it, new DDR storage cards, Nicks, accelerators, all of those, all of those things. How do you keep that straight when those aren't things that you actually build? >>Well, excellent question, Dave. And you know, as we are developing the next platform, obviously the, the ongoing relationship is there with Dell, but we start way before launch, right? Sometimes it's multiple years before launch. So we are not just focusing on the super high core counts at the CPU level and the platform configurations, whether it's single socket or dual socket, we are looking at it from the memory subsystem from the IO subsystem, P c i lanes for storage is a big deal, for example, in this generation. So it's really a holistic approach. And look, core counts are, you know, more important at the higher end for some customers h HPC space, some of the AI applications. But on the lower end you have database applications or some other is s v applications that care a lot about those. So it's, I guess different things matter to different folks across verticals. >>So we partnered with Dell very early in the cycle, and it's really a joint co-engineering. Shamus talked about the focus on AI with TP C X xci, I, so we set five world records in that space just on that one benchmark with AD and Dell. So fantastic kick kick off to that across a multitude of scale factors. But PPP c Xci is not just the only thing we are focusing on. We are also collaborating with Dell and des e i on some of the transformer based natural language processing models that we worked on, for example. So it's not just a steep CPU story, it's CPU platform, es subsystem software and the whole thing delivering goodness across the board to solve end user problems in AI and and other verticals. >>Yeah, the two of you are at the tip of the spear from a performance perspective. So I know it's easy to get excited about world records and, and they're, they're fantastic. I know Shamus, you know, that, you know, end user customers might, might immediately have the reaction, well, I don't need a Ferrari in my data center, or, you know, what I need is to be able to do more with less. Well, aren't we delivering that also? And you know, you imagine you milland you mentioned natural, natural language processing. Shamus, are you thinking in 2023 that a lot more enterprises are gonna be able to afford to do things like that? I mean, what are you hearing from customers on this front? >>I mean, while the adoption of the top bin CPU stack is, is definitely the exception, not the rule today we are seeing marked performance, even when we look at the mid bin CPU offerings from from a m d, those are, you know, the most common sold SKUs. And when we look at customers implementations, really what we're seeing is the fact that they're trying to make the most, not just of dollar spend, but also the whole subsystem that Melin was talking about. You know, the fact that balanced memory configs can give you marked performance improvements, not just at the CPU level, but as actually all the way through to the, to the application performance. So it's, it's trying to find the correct balance between the application needs, your budget, power draw and infrastructure within the, the data center, right? Because not only could you, you could be purchasing and, and look to deploy the most powerful systems, but if you don't have an infrastructure that's, that's got the right power, right, that's a large challenge that's happening right now and the right cooling to deal with the thermal differences of the systems, might you wanna ensure that, that you can accommodate those for not just today but in the future, right? >>So it's, it's planning that balance. >>If I may just add onto that, right? So when we launched, not just the fourth generation, but any generation in the past, there's a natural tendency to zero in on the top bin and say, wow, we've got so many cores. But as Shamus correctly said, it's not just that one core count opn, it's, it's the whole stack. And we believe with our four gen CPU processor stack, we've simplified things so much. We don't have, you know, dozens and dozens of offerings. We have a fairly simple skew stack, but we also have a very efficient skew stack. So even, even though at the top end we've got 96 scores, the thermal budget that we require is fairly reasonable. And look, with all the energy crisis going around, especially in Europe, this is a big deal. Not only do customers want performance, but they're also super focused on performance per want. And so we believe with this generation, we really delivered not just on raw performance, but also on performance per dollar and performance per one. >>Yeah. And it's not just Europe, I'm, we're, we are here in Palo Alto right now, which is in California where we all know the cost of an individual kilowatt hour of electricity because it's quite, because it's quite high. So, so thermals, power cooling, all of that, all of that goes together and that, and that drives cost. So it's a question of how much can you get done per dollar shame as you made the point that you, you're not, you don't just have a one size fits all solution that it's, that it's fit for function. I, I'm, I'm curious to hear from you from the two of you what your thoughts are from a, from a general AI and ML perspective. We're starting to see right now, if you hang out on any kind of social media, the rise of these experimental AI programs that are being presented to the public, some will write stories for you based on prom, some will create images for you. One of the more popular ones will create sort of a, your superhero alter ego for, I, I can't wait to do it, I just got the app on my phone. So those are all fun and they're trivial, but they sort of get us used to this idea that, wow, these systems can do things. They can think on their own in a certain way. W what do, what do you see the future of that looking like over the next year in terms of enterprises, what they're going to do for it with it >>Melan? Yeah, I can go first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, >>Sure. Yeah. Good. >>So the couple of examples, Dave, that you mentioned are, I, I guess it's a blend of novelty and curiosity. You know, people using AI to write stories or poems or, you know, even carve out little jokes, check grammar and spelling very useful, but still, you know, kind of in the realm of novelty in the mainstream, in the enterprise. Look, in my opinion, AI is not just gonna be a vertical, it's gonna be a horizontal capability. We are seeing AI deployed across the board once the models have been suitably trained for disparate functions ranging from fraud detection or anomaly detection, both in the financial markets in manufacturing to things like image classification or object detection that you talked about in, in the sort of a core AI space itself, right? So we don't think of AI necessarily as a vertical, although we are showcasing it with a specific benchmark for launch, but we really look at AI emerging as a horizontal capability and frankly, companies that don't adopt AI on a massive scale run the risk of being left behind. >>Yeah, absolutely. There's an, an AI as an outcome is really something that companies, I, I think of it in the fact that they're adopting that and the frameworks that you're now seeing as the novelty pieces that Melin was talking about is, is really indicative of the under the covers activity that's been happening within infrastructures and within enterprises for the past, let's say 5, 6, 7 years, right? The fact that you have object detection within manufacturing to be able to, to be able to do defect detection within manufacturing lines. Now that can be done on edge platforms all the way at the device. So you're no longer only having to have things be done, you know, in the data center, you can bring it right out to the edge and have that high performance, you know, inferencing training models. Now, not necessarily training at the edge, but the inferencing models especially, so that way you can, you know, have more and, and better use cases for some of these, these instances things like, you know, smart cities with, with video detection. >>So that way they can see, especially during covid, we saw a lot of hospitals and a lot of customers that were using using image and, and spatial detection within their, their video feeds to be able to determine who and what employees were at risk during covid. So there's a lot of different use cases that have been coming around. I think the novelty aspect of it is really interesting and I, I know my kids, my daughters love that, that portion of it, but really what's been happening has been exciting for quite a, quite a period of time in the enterprise space. We're just now starting to actually see those come to light in more of a, a consumer relevant kind of use case. So the technology that's been developed in the data center around all of these different use cases is now starting to feed in because we do have more powerful compute at our fingertips. We do have the ability to talk more about the framework and infrastructure that's that's right out at the edge. You know, I know Dave in the past you've said things like the data center of, you know, 20 years ago is now in my hand as, as my cell phone. That's right. And, and that's, that's a fact and I'm, it's exciting to think where it's gonna be in the next 10 or 20 years. >>One terabyte baby. Yeah. One terabyte. Yeah. It's mind bo. Exactly. It's mind boggling. Yeah. And it makes me feel old. >>Yeah, >>Me too. And, and that and, and Shamus, that all sounded great. A all I want is a picture of me as a superhero though, so you guys are already way ahead of the curve, you know, with, with, with that on that note, Seamus wrap us up with, with a, with kind of a summary of the, the highlights of what we just went through in terms of the performance you're seeing out of this latest gen architecture from a md. >>Absolutely. So within the TPC xai frameworks that Melin and my team have worked together to do, you know, we're seeing unprecedented price performance. So the fact that you can get 220% uplift gen on gen for some of these benchmarks and, you know, you can have a five to one consolidation means that if you're looking to refresh platforms that are historically legacy, you can get a, a huge amount of benefit, both in reduction in the number of units that you need to deploy and the, the amount of performance that you can get per unit. You know, Melinda had mentioned earlier around CPU performance and performance per wat, specifically on the Tu socket two U platform using the fourth generation a m d Epic, you know, we're seeing a 55% higher C P U performance per wat that is that, you know, when for people who aren't necessarily looking at these statistics, every generation of servers, that that's, that is a huge jump leap forward. >>That combined with 121% higher spec scores, you know, as a benchmark, those are huge. Normally we see, let's say a 40 to 60% performance improvement on the spec benchmarks, we're seeing 121%. So while that's really impressive at the top bin, we're actually seeing, you know, large percentile improvements across the mid bins as well, you know, things in the range of like 70 to 90% performance improvements in those standard bins. So it, it's a, it's a huge performance improvement, a power efficiency, which means customers are able to save energy, space and time based on, on their deployment size. >>Thanks for that Shamus, sadly, gentlemen, our time has expired. With that, I want to thank both of you. It's a very interesting conversation. Thanks for, thanks for being with us, both of you. Thanks for joining us here on the Cube for our coverage of AMD's fourth generation Epic launch. Additional information, including white papers and benchmarks plus editorial coverage can be found on does hardware matter.com.

>>The cybersecurity landscape continues to be one characterized by a series of point tools designed to do a very specific job, often pretty well, but the mosaic of tooling is grown over the years causing complexity in driving up costs and increasing exposures. So the game of Whackamole continues. Moreover, the way organizations approach security is changing quite dramatically. The cloud, while offering so many advantages, has also created new complexities. The shared responsibility model redefines what the cloud provider secures, for example, the S three bucket and what the customer is responsible for, eg properly configuring the bucket. You know, this is all well and good, but because virtually no organization of any size can go all in on a single cloud, that shared responsibility model now spans multiple clouds and with different protocols. Now, that of course includes on-prem and edge deployments, making things even more complex. Moreover, the DevOps team is being asked to be the point of execution to implement many aspects of an organization's security strategy. >>This extends to securing the runtime, the platform, and even now containers, which can end up anywhere. There's a real need for consolidation in the security industry, and that's part of the answer. We've seen this both in terms of mergers and acquisitions as well as platform plays that cover more and more ground. But the diversity of alternatives and infrastructure implementations continues to boggle the mind with more and more entry points for the attackers. This includes sophisticated supply chain attacks that make it even more difficult to understand how to secure components of a system and how secure those components actually are. The number one challenge CISOs face in today's complex world is lack of talent to address these challenges, and I'm not saying that SecOps pros are now talented. They are. There just aren't enough of them to go around, and the adversary is also talented and very creative, and there are more and more of them every day. >>Now, one of the very important roles that a technology vendor can play is to take mundane infrastructure security tasks off the plates of SEC off teams. Specifically, we're talking about shifting much of the heavy lifting around securing servers, storage, networking, and other infrastructure and their components onto the technology vendor via r and d and other best practices like supply chain management. And that's what we're here to talk about. Welcome to the second part in our series, A Blueprint for Trusted Infrastructure Made Possible by Dell Technologies and produced by the Cube. My name is Dave Ante, and I'm your host now. Previously, we looked at what trusted infrastructure means >>And the role that storage and data protection play in the equation. In this part two of the series, we explore the changing nature of technology infrastructure, how the industry generally in Dell specifically, are adapting to these changes and what is being done to proactively address threats that are increasingly stressing security teams. Now today, we continue the discussion and look more deeply into servers networking and hyper-converged infrastructure to better understand the critical aspects of how one company Dell is securing these elements so that devs SEC op teams can focus on the myriad new attack vectors and challenges that they faced. First up is Deepak rang Garage Power Edge security product manager at Dell Technologies, and after that we're gonna bring on Mahesh Naar oim, who was a consultant in the networking product management area at Dell. And finally, we're closed with Jerome West, who is the product management security lead for HCI hyperconverged infrastructure and converged infrastructure at Dell. Thanks for joining us today. We're thrilled to have you here and hope you enjoy the program.

>>We're back with Jerome West, product management security lead at for HCI at Dell Technologies Hyper-converged infrastructure. Jerome, welcome. >>Thank you, David. >>Hey, Jerome, In this series, A blueprint for trusted infrastructure, we've been digging into the different parts of the infrastructure stack, including storage, servers and networking, and now we want to cover hyperconverged infrastructure. So my first question is, what's unique about HCI that presents specific security challenges? What do we need to know? >>So what's unique about Hyperconverge infrastructure is the breadth of the security challenge. We can't simply focus on a single type of IT system, so like a server or a storage system or a virtualization piece of software. I mean, HCI is all of those things. So luckily we have excellent partners like VMware, Microsoft, and internal partners like the Dell Power Edge team, the Dell storage team, the Dell networking team, and on and on. These partnerships, in these collaborations are what make us successful from a security standpoint. So let me give you an example to illustrate. In the recent past, we're seeing growing scope and sophistication in supply chain attacks. This mean an attacker is going to attack your software supply chain upstream so that hopefully a piece of code, malicious code that wasn't identified early in the software supply chain is distributed like a large player, like a VMware or Microsoft or a Dell. So to confront this kind of sophisticated hard to defeat problem, we need short term solutions and we need long term solutions as well. >>So for the short term solution, the obvious thing to do is to patch the vulnerability. The complexity is for our HCI portfolio. We build our software on VMware, so we would have to consume a patch that VMware would produce and provide it to our customers in a timely manner. Luckily, VX Rail's engineering team has co engineered a release process with VMware that significantly shortens our development life cycle so that VMware will produce a patch and within 14 days we will integrate our own code. With the VMware release, we will have tested and validated the update and we will give an update to our customers within 14 days of that VMware release. That as a result of this kind of rapid development process, Vxl had over 40 releases of software updates last year for a longer term solution. We're partnering with VMware and others to develop a software bill of materials. We work with VMware to consume their software manifest, including their upstream vendors and their open source providers to have a comprehensive list of software components. Then we aren't caught off guard by an unforeseen vulnerability and we're more able to easily detect where the software problem lies so that we can quickly address it. So these are the kind of relationships and solutions that we can co engineer with effective collaborations with our, with our partners. >>Great, Thank you for that. That description. So if I had to define what cybersecurity resilience means to HCI or converged infrastructure, and to me my takeaway was you gotta have a short term instant patch solution and then you gotta do an integration in a very short time, you know, two weeks to then have that integration done. And then longer term you have to have a software bill of materials so that you can ensure the providence of all the components help us. Is that a right way to think about cybersecurity resilience? Do you have, you know, a additives to that definition? >>I do. I really think that site cybersecurity and resilience for hci, because like I said, it has sort of unprecedented breadth across our portfolio. It's not a single thing, it's a bit of everything. So really the strength or the secret sauce is to combine all the solutions that our partner develops while integrating them with our own layer. So let me, let me give you an example. So hci, it's a, basically taking a software abstraction of hardware functionality and implementing it into something called the virtualized layer. It's basically the virtual virtualizing hardware functionality, like say a storage controller, you could implement it in a hardware, but for hci, for example, in our VX rail portfolio, we, or our vxl product, we integrate it into a product called vsan, which is provided by our partner VMware. So that portfolio strength is still, you know, through our, through our partnerships. >>So what we do, we integrate these, these security functionality and features in into our product. So our partnership grows to our ecosystem through products like VMware, products like nsx, Verizon, Carbon Black and Bsphere. All of them integrate seamlessly with VMware. And we also leverage VMware's software, par software partnerships on top of that. So for example, VX supports multifactor authentication through bsphere integration with something called Active Directory Federation services for adfs. So there is a lot of providers that support adfs, including Microsoft Azure. So now we can support a wide array of identity providers such as Off Zero or I mentioned Azure or Active Directory through that partnership. So we can leverage all of our partners partnerships as well. So there's sort of a second layer. So being able to secure all of that, that provides a lot of options and flexibility for our customers. So basically to summarize my my answer, we consume all of the security advantages of our partners, but we also expand on that to make a product that is comprehensively secured at multiple layers from the hardware layer that's provided by Dell through Power Edge to the hyper-converged software that we build ourselves to the virtualization layer that we get through our partnerships with Microsoft and VMware. >>Great. I mean that's super helpful. You've mentioned nsx, Horizon, Carbon Black, all the, you know, the VMware component OTH zero, which the developers are gonna love. You got Azure identity, so it's really an ecosystem. So you may have actually answered my next question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway cuz you've got this software defined environment and you're managing servers and networking and storage with this software led approach, how do you ensure that the entire system is secure end to end? >>That's a really great question. So the, the answer is we do testing and validation as part of the engineering process. It's not just bolted on at the end. So when we do, for example, the xra is the market's only co engineered solution with VMware, other vendors sell VMware as a hyperconverged solution, but we actually include security as part of the co-engineering process with VMware. So it's considered when VMware builds their code and their process dovetails with ours because we have a secure development life cycle, which other products might talk about in their discussions with you that we integrate into our engineering life cycle. So because we follow the same framework, all of the, all of the codes should interoperate from a security standpoint. And so when we do our final validation testing when we do a software release, we're already halfway there in ensuring that all these features will give the customers what we promised. >>That's great. All right, let's, let's close pitch me, what would you say is the strong suit summarize the, the strengths of the Dell hyperconverged infrastructure and converged infrastructure portfolio specifically from a security perspective? Jerome? >>So I talked about how hyper hyper-converged infrastructure simplifies security management because basically you're gonna take all of these features that are abstracted in in hardware, they're now abstracted in the virtualization layer. Now you can manage them from a single point of view, whether it would be, say, you know, in for VX rail would be b be center, for example. So by abstracting all this, you make it very easy to manage security and highly flexible because now you don't have limitations around a single vendor. You have a multiple array of choices and partnerships to select. So I would say that is the, the key to making it to hci. Now, what makes Dell the market leader in HCI is not only do we have that functionality, but we also make it exceptionally useful to you because it's co engineered, it's not bolted on. So I gave the example of, I gave the example of how we, we modify our software release process with VMware to make it very responsive. >>A couple of other features that we have specific just to HCI are digitally signed LCM updates. This is an example of a feature that we have that's only exclusive to Dell that's not done through a partnership. So we digitally sign our software updates so you, the user can be sure that the, the update that they're installing into their system is an authentic and unmodified product. So we give it a Dell signature that's invalidated prior to installation. So not only do we consume the features that others develop in a seamless and fully validated way, but we also bolt on our own specific HCI security features that work with all the other partnerships and give the user an exceptional security experience. So for, for example, the benefit to the customer is you don't have to create a complicated security framework that's hard for your users to use and it's hard for your system administrators to manage. It all comes in a package. So it, it can be all managed through vCenter, for example, or, and then the specific hyper, hyper-converged functions can be managed through VxRail manager or through STDC manager. So there's very few pains of glass that the, the administrator or user ever has to worry about. It's all self contained and manageable. >>That makes a lot of sense. So you got your own infrastructure, you're applying your best practices to that, like the digital signatures, you've got your ecosystem, you're doing co-engineering with the ecosystems, delivering security in a package, minimizing the complexity at the infrastructure level. The reason Jerome, this is so important is because SecOps teams, you know, they gotta deal with cloud security, they gotta deal with multiple clouds. Now they have their shared responsibility model going across multiple, They got all this other stuff that they have to worry, they gotta secure containers and the run time and, and, and, and, and the platform and so forth. So they're being asked to do other things. If they have to worry about all the things that you just mentioned, they'll never get, you know, the, the securities is gonna get worse. So what my takeaway is, you're removing that infrastructure piece and saying, Okay guys, you now can focus on those other things that is not necessarily Dell's, you know, domain, but you, you know, you can work with other partners to, and your own teams to really nail that. Is that a fair summary? >>I think that is a fair summary because absolutely the worst thing you can do from a security perspective is provide a feature that's so unusable that the administrator disables it or other key security features. So when I work with my partners to define, to define and develop a new security feature, the thing I keep foremost in mind is, will this be something our users want to use in our administrators want to administer? Because if it's not, if it's something that's too difficult or onerous or complex, then I try to find ways to make it more user friendly and practical. And this is a challenge sometimes because we are, our products operate in highly regulated environments and sometimes they have to have certain rules and certain configurations that aren't the most user friendly or management friendly. So I, I put a lot of effort into thinking about how can we make this feature useful while still complying with all the regulations that we have to comply with. And by the way, we're very successful in a highly regulated space. We sell a lot of VxRail, for example, into the Department of Defense and banks and, and other highly regulated environments, and we're very successful >>There. Excellent. Okay, Jerome, thanks. We're gonna leave it there for now. I'd love to have you back to talk about the progress that you're making down the road. Things always, you know, advance in the tech industry and so would appreciate that. >>I would look forward to it. Thank you very much, Dave. >>You're really welcome. In a moment I'll be back to summarize the program and offer some resources that can help you on your journey to secure your enterprise infrastructure. I wanna thank our guests for their contributions and helping us understand how investments by a company like Dell can both reduce the need for dev sec up teams to worry about some of the more fundamental security issues around infrastructure and have greater confidence in the quality providence and data protection designed in to core infrastructure like servers, storage, networking, and hyper-converged systems. You know, at the end of the day, whether your workloads are in the cloud, OnPrem or at the edge, you are responsible for your own security. But vendor r and d and vendor process must play an important role in easing the burden faced by security devs and operation teams. And on behalf of the cube production content and social teams as well as Dell Technologies, we want to thank you for watching a blueprint for trusted infrastructure. Remember part one of this series as well as all the videos associated with this program, and of course, today's program are available on demand@thecube.net with additional coverage@siliconangle.com. And you can go to dell.com/security solutions dell.com/security solutions to learn more about Dell's approach to securing infrastructure. And there's tons of additional resources that can help you on your journey. This is Dave Valante for the Cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We'll see you next time.

>>The cybersecurity landscape continues to be one characterized by a series of point tools designed to do a very specific job, often pretty well, but the mosaic of tooling is grown over the years causing complexity in driving up costs and increasing exposures. So the game of Whackamole continues. Moreover, the way organizations approach security is changing quite dramatically. The cloud, while offering so many advantages, has also created new complexities. The shared responsibility model redefines what the cloud provider secures, for example, the S three bucket and what the customer is responsible for eg properly configuring the bucket. You know, this is all well and good, but because virtually no organization of any size can go all in on a single cloud, that shared responsibility model now spans multiple clouds and with different protocols. Now that of course includes on-prem and edge deployments, making things even more complex. Moreover, the DevOps team is being asked to be the point of execution to implement many aspects of an organization's security strategy. >>This extends to securing the runtime, the platform, and even now containers which can end up anywhere. There's a real need for consolidation in the security industry, and that's part of the answer. We've seen this both in terms of mergers and acquisitions as well as platform plays that cover more and more ground. But the diversity of alternatives and infrastructure implementations continues to boggle the mind with more and more entry points for the attackers. This includes sophisticated supply chain attacks that make it even more difficult to understand how to secure components of a system and how secure those components actually are. The number one challenge CISOs face in today's complex world is lack of talent to address these challenges. And I'm not saying that SecOps pros are not talented, They are. There just aren't enough of them to go around and the adversary is also talented and very creative, and there are more and more of them every day. >>Now, one of the very important roles that a technology vendor can play is to take mundane infrastructure security tasks off the plates of SEC off teams. Specifically we're talking about shifting much of the heavy lifting around securing servers, storage, networking, and other infrastructure and their components onto the technology vendor via r and d and other best practices like supply chain management. And that's what we're here to talk about. Welcome to the second part in our series, A Blueprint for Trusted Infrastructure Made Possible by Dell Technologies and produced by the Cube. My name is Dave Ante and I'm your host now. Previously we looked at what trusted infrastructure means and the role that storage and data protection play in the equation. In this part two of the series, we explore the changing nature of technology infrastructure, how the industry generally in Dell specifically, are adapting to these changes and what is being done to proactively address threats that are increasingly stressing security teams. >>Now today, we continue the discussion and look more deeply into servers networking and hyper-converged infrastructure to better understand the critical aspects of how one company Dell is securing these elements so that dev sec op teams can focus on the myriad new attack vectors and challenges that they faced. First up is Deepak rang Garage Power Edge security product manager at Dell Technologies. And after that we're gonna bring on Mahesh Nagar oim, who was consultant in the networking product management area at Dell. And finally, we're close with Jerome West, who is the product management security lead for HCI hyperconverged infrastructure and converged infrastructure at Dell. Thanks for joining us today. We're thrilled to have you here and hope you enjoy the program. Deepak Arage shoes powered security product manager at Dell Technologies. Deepak, great to have you on the program. Thank you. >>Thank you for having me. >>So we're going through the infrastructure stack and in part one of this series we looked at the landscape overall and how cyber has changed and specifically how Dell thinks about data protection in, in security in a manner that both secures infrastructure and minimizes organizational friction. We also hit on the storage part of the portfolio. So now we want to dig into servers. So my first question is, what are the critical aspects of securing server infrastructure that our audience should be aware of? >>Sure. So if you look at compute in general, right, it has rapidly evolved over the past couple of years, especially with trends toward software defined data centers and with also organizations having to deal with hybrid environments where they have private clouds, public cloud locations, remote offices, and also remote workers. So on top of this, there's also an increase in the complexity of the supply chain itself, right? There are companies who are dealing with hundreds of suppliers as part of their supply chain. So all of this complexity provides a lot of opportunity for attackers because it's expanding the threat surface of what can be attacked, and attacks are becoming more frequent, more severe and more sophisticated. And this has also triggered around in the regulatory and mandates around the security needs. >>And these regulations are not just in the government sector, right? So it extends to critical infrastructure and eventually it also get into the private sector. In addition to this, organizations are also looking at their own internal compliance mandates. And this could be based on the industry in which they're operating in, or it could be their own security postures. And this is the landscape in which servers they're operating today. And given that servers are the foundational blocks of the data center, it becomes extremely important to protect them. And given how complex the modern server platforms are, it's also extremely difficult and it takes a lot of effort. And this means protecting everything from the supply chain to the manufacturing and then eventually the assuring the hardware and software integrity of the platforms and also the operations. And there are very few companies that go to the lens that Dell does in order to secure the server. We truly believe in the notion and the security mentality that, you know, security should enable our customers to go focus on their business and proactively innovate on their business and it should not be a burden to them. And we heavily invest to make that possible for our customers. >>So this is really important because the premise that I set up at the beginning of this was really that I, as of security pro, I'm not a security pro, but if I were, I wouldn't want to be doing all this infrastructure stuff because I now have all these new things I gotta deal with. I want a company like Dell who has the resources to build that security in to deal with the supply chain to ensure the providence, et cetera. So I'm glad you you, you hit on that, but so given what you just said, what does cybersecurity resilience mean from a server perspective? For example, are there specific principles that Dell adheres to that are non-negotiable? Let's say, how does Dell ensure that its customers can trust your server infrastructure? >>Yeah, like when, when it comes to security at Dell, right? It's ingrained in our product, so that's the best way to put it. And security is nonnegotiable, right? It's never an afterthought where we come up with a design and then later on figure out how to go make it secure, right? Our security development life cycle, the products are being designed to counter these threats right from the big. And in addition to that, we are also testing and evaluating these products continuously to identify vulnerabilities. We also have external third party audits which supplement this process. And in addition to this, Dell makes the commitment that we will rapidly respond to any mitigations and vulnerability, any vulnerabilities and exposures found out in the field and provide mitigations and patches for in attacking manner. So this security principle is also built into our server life cycle, right? Every phase of it. >>So we want our products to provide cutting edge capabilities when it comes to security. So as part of that, we are constantly evaluating what our security model is done. We are building on it and continuously improving it. So till a few years ago, our model was primarily based on the N framework of protect, detect and rigor. And it's still aligns really well to that framework, but over the past couple of years, we have seen how computers evolved, how the threads have evolved, and we have also seen the regulatory trends and we recognize the fact that the best security strategy for the modern world is a zero trust approach. And so now when we are building our infrastructure and tools and offerings for customers, first and foremost, they're cyber resilient, right? What we mean by that is they're capable of anticipating threats, withstanding attacks and rapidly recurring from attacks and also adapting to the adverse conditions in which they're deployed. The process of designing these capabilities and identifying these capabilities however, is done through the zero press framework. And that's very important because now we are also anticipating how our customers will end up using these capabilities at there and to enable their own zero trust IT environments and IT zero trusts deployments. We have completely adapted our security approach to make it easier for customers to work with us no matter where they are in their journey towards zero trust option. >>So thank you for that. You mentioned the, this framework, you talked about zero trust. When I think about n I think as well about layered approaches. And when I think about zero trust, I think about if you, if you don't have access to it, you're not getting access, you've gotta earn that, that access and you've got layers and then you still assume that bad guys are gonna get in. So you've gotta detect that and you've gotta response. So server infrastructure security is so fundamental. So my question is, what is Dell providing specifically to, for example, detect anomalies and breaches from unauthorized activity? How do you enable fast and easy or facile recovery from malicious incidents, >>Right? What is that is exactly right, right? Breachers are bound to happen and given how complex our current environment is, it's extremely distributed and extremely connected, right? Data and users are no longer contained with an offices where we can set up a perimeter firewall and say, Yeah, everything within that is good. We can trust everything within it. That's no longer true. The best approach to protect data and infrastructure in the current world is to use a zero trust approach, which uses the principles. Nothing is ever trusted, right? Nothing is trusted implicitly. You're constantly verifying every single user, every single device, and every single access in your system at every single level of your ID environment. And this is the principles that we use on power Edge, right? But with an increased focus on providing granular controls and checks based on the principles of these privileged access. >>So the idea is that service first and foremost need to make sure that the threats never enter and they're rejected at the point of entry, but we recognize breaches are going to occur and if they do, they need to be minimized such that the sphere of damage cost by attacker is minimized so they're not able to move from one part of the network to something else laterally or escalate their privileges and cause more damage, right? So the impact radius for instance, has to be radius. And this is done through features like automated detection capabilities and automation, automated remediation capabilities. So some examples are as part of our end to end boot resilience process, we have what they call a system lockdown, right? We can lock down the configuration of the system and lock on the form versions and all changes to the system. And we have capabilities which automatically detect any drift from that lockdown configuration and we can figure out if the drift was caused to authorized changes or unauthorized changes. >>And if it is an unauthorize change can log it, generate security alerts, and we even have capabilities to automatically roll the firm where, and always versions back to a known good version and also the configurations, right? And this becomes extremely important because as part of zero trust, we need to respond to these things at machine speed and we cannot do it at a human speed. And having these automated capabilities is a big deal when achieving that zero trust strategy. And in addition to this, we also have chassis inclusion detection where if the chassis, the box, the several box is opened up, it logs alerts, and you can figure out even later if there's an AC power cycle, you can go look at the logs to see that the box is opened up and figure out if there was a, like a known authorized access or some malicious actor opening and chain something in your system. >>Great, thank you for that lot. Lot of detail and and appreciate that. I want to go somewhere else now cuz Dell has a renowned supply chain reputation. So what about securing the, the supply chain and the server bill of materials? What does Dell specifically do to track the providence of components it uses in its systems so that when the systems arrive, a customer can be a hundred percent certain that that system hasn't been compromised, >>Right? And we've talked about how complex the modern supply chain is, right? And that's no different for service. We have hundreds of confidence on the server and a lot of these form where in order to be configured and run and this former competence could be coming from third parties suppliers. So now the complexity that we are dealing with like was the end to end approach and that's where Dell pays a lot of attention into assuring the security approach approaching and it starts all the way from sourcing competence, right? And then through the design and then even the manufacturing process where we are wetting the personnel leather factories and wetting the factories itself. And the factories also have physical controls, physical security controls built into them and even shipping, right? We have GPS tagging of packages. So all of this is built to ensure supply chain security. >>But a critical aspect of this is also making sure that the systems which are built in the factories are delivered to the customers without any changes or any tapper. And we have a feature called the secure component verification, which is capable of doing this. What the feature does this, when the system gets built in a factory, it generates an inventory of all the competence in the system and it creates a cryptographic certificate based on the signatures presented to this by the competence. And this certificate is stored separately and sent to the customers separately from the system itself. So once the customers receive the system at their end, they can run out to, it generates an inventory of the competence on the system at their end and then compare it to the golden certificate to make sure nothing was changed. And if any changes are detected, we can figure out if there's an authorized change or unauthorize change. >>Again, authorized changes could be like, you know, upgrades to the drives or memory and ized changes could be any sort of temper. So that's the supply chain aspect of it and bill of metal use is also an important aspect to galing security, right? And we provide a software bill of materials, which is basically a list of ingredients of all the software pieces in the platform. So what it allows our customers to do is quickly take a look at all the different pieces and compare it to the vulnerability database and see if any of the vulner which have been discovered out in the wild affected platform. So that's a quick way of figuring out if the platform has any known vulnerabilities and it has not been patched. >>Excellent. That's really good. My last question is, I wonder if you, you know, give us the sort of summary from your perspective, what are the key strengths of Dell server portfolio from a security standpoint? I'm really interested in, you know, the uniqueness and the strong suit that Dell brings to the table, >>Right? Yeah. We have talked enough about the complexity of the environment and how zero risk is necessary for the modern ID environment, right? And this is integral to Dell powered service. And as part of that like you know, security starts with the supply chain. We already talked about the second component verification, which is a beneath feature that Dell platforms have. And on top of it we also have a silicon place platform mode of trust. So this is a key which is programmed into the silicon on the black service during manufacturing and can never be changed after. And this immutable key is what forms the anchor for creating the chain of trust that is used to verify everything in the platform from the hardware and software integrity to the boot, all pieces of it, right? In addition to that, we also have a host of data protection features. >>Whether it is protecting data at risk in news or inflight, we have self encrypting drives which provides scalable and flexible encryption options. And this couple with external key management provides really good protection for your data address. External key management is important because you know, somebody could physically steam the server walk away, but then the keys are not stored on the server, it stood separately. So that provides your action layer of security. And we also have dual layer encryption where you can compliment the hardware encryption on the secure encrypted drives with software level encryption. Inion to this we have identity and access management features like multifactor authentication, single sign on roles, scope and time based access controls, all of which are critical to enable that granular control and checks for zero trust approach. So I would say like, you know, if you look at the Dell feature set, it's pretty comprehensive and we also have the flexibility built in to meet the needs of all customers no matter where they fall in the spectrum of, you know, risk tolerance and security sensitivity. And we also have the capabilities to meet all the regulatory requirements and compliance requirements. So in a nutshell, I would say that you know, Dell Power Service cyber resident infrastructure helps accelerate zero tested option for customers. >>Got it. So you've really thought this through all the various things that that you would do to sort of make sure that your server infrastructure is secure, not compromised, that your supply chain is secure so that your customers can focus on some of the other things that they have to worry about, which are numerous. Thanks Deepak, appreciate you coming on the cube and participating in the program. >>Thank you for having >>You're welcome. In a moment I'll be back to dig into the networking portion of the infrastructure. Stay with us for more coverage of a blueprint for trusted infrastructure and collaboration with Dell Technologies on the cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We're back with a blueprint for trusted infrastructure and partnership with Dell Technologies in the cube. And we're here with Mahesh Nager, who is a consultant in the area of networking product management at Dell Technologies. Mahesh, welcome, good to see you. >>Hey, good morning Dell's, nice to meet, meet to you as well. >>Hey, so we've been digging into all the parts of the infrastructure stack and now we're gonna look at the all important networking components. Mahesh, when we think about networking in today's environment, we think about the core data center and we're connecting out to various locations including the cloud and both the near and the far edge. So the question is from Dell's perspective, what's unique and challenging about securing network infrastructure that we should know about? >>Yeah, so few years ago IT security and an enterprise was primarily putting a wrapper around data center out because it was constrained to an infrastructure owned and operated by the enterprise for the most part. So putting a rapid around it like a parameter or a firewall was a sufficient response because you could basically control the environment and data small enough control today with the distributed data, intelligent software, different systems, multi-cloud environment and asset service delivery, you know, the infrastructure for the modern era changes the way to secure the network infrastructure In today's, you know, data driven world, it operates everywhere and data has created and accessed everywhere so far from, you know, the centralized monolithic data centers of the past. The biggest challenge is how do we build the network infrastructure of the modern era that are intelligent with automation enabling maximum flexibility and business agility without any compromise on the security. We believe that in this data era, the security transformation must accompany digital transformation. >>Yeah, that's very good. You talked about a couple of things there. Data by its very nature is distributed. There is no perimeter anymore, so you can't just, as you say, put a rapper around it. I like the way you phrase that. So when you think about cyber security resilience from a networking perspective, how do you define that? In other words, what are the basic principles that you adhere to when thinking about securing network infrastructure for your customers? >>So our belief is that cybersecurity and cybersecurity resilience, they need to be holistic, they need to be integrated, scalable, one that span the entire enterprise and with a co and objective and policy implementation. So cybersecurity needs to span across all the devices and running across any application, whether the application resets on the cloud or anywhere else in the infrastructure. From a networking standpoint, what does it mean? It's again, the same principles, right? You know, in order to prevent the threat actors from accessing changing best destroy or stealing sensitive data, this definition holds good for networking as well. So if you look at it from a networking perspective, it's the ability to protect from and withstand attacks on the networking systems as we continue to evolve. This will also include the ability to adapt and recover from these attacks, which is what cyber resilience aspect is all about. So cybersecurity best practices, as you know, is continuously changing the landscape primarily because the cyber threats also continue to evolve. >>Yeah, got it. So I like that. So it's gotta be integrated, it's gotta be scalable, it's gotta be comprehensive, comprehensive and adaptable. You're saying it can't be static, >>Right? Right. So I think, you know, you had a second part of a question, you know, that says what do we, you know, what are the basic principles? You know, when you think about securing network infrastructure, when you're looking at securing the network infrastructure, it revolves around core security capability of the devices that form the network. And what are these security capabilities? These are access control, software integrity and vulnerability response. When you look at access control, it's to ensure that only the authenticated users are able to access the platform and they're able to access only the kind of the assets that they're authorized to based on their user level. Now accessing a network platform like a switch or a rotor for example, is typically used for say, configuration and management of the networking switch. So user access is based on say roles for that matter in a role based access control, whether you are a security admin or a network admin or a storage admin. >>And it's imperative that logging is enable because any of the change to the configuration is actually logged and monitored as that. Talking about software's integrity, it's the ability to ensure that the software that's running on the system has not been compromised. And, and you know, this is important because it could actually, you know, get hold of the system and you know, you could get UND desire results in terms of say validation of the images. It's, it needs to be done through say digital signature. So, so it's important that when you're talking about say, software integrity, a, you are ensuring that the platform is not compromised, you know, is not compromised and be that any upgrades, you know, that happens to the platform is happening through say validated signature. >>Okay. And now, now you've now, so there's access control, software integrity, and I think you, you've got a third element which is i I think response, but please continue. >>Yeah, so you know, the third one is about civil notability. So we follow the same process that's been followed by the rest of the products within the Dell product family. That's to report or identify, you know, any kind of a vulnerability that's being addressed by the Dell product security incident response team. So the networking portfolio is no different, you know, it follows the same process for identification for tri and for resolution of these vulnerabilities. And these are addressed either through patches or through new reasons via networking software. >>Yeah, got it. Okay. So I mean, you didn't say zero trust, but when you were talking about access control, you're really talking about access to only those assets that people are authorized to access. I know zero trust sometimes is a buzzword, but, but you I think gave it, you know, some clarity there. Software integrity, it's about assurance validation, your digital signature you mentioned and, and that there's been no compromise. And then how you respond to incidents in a standard way that can fit into a security framework. So outstanding description, thank you for that. But then the next question is, how does Dell networking fit into the construct of what we've been talking about Dell trusted infrastructure? >>Okay, so networking is the key element in the Dell trusted infrastructure. It provides the interconnect between the service and the storage world. And you know, it's part of any data center configuration for a trusted infrastructure. The network needs to have access control in place where only the authorized nels are able to make change to the network configuration and logging off any of those changes is also done through the logging capabilities. Additionally, we should also ensure that the configuration should provide network isolation between say the management network and the data traffic network because they need to be separate and distinct from each other. And furthermore, even if you look at the data traffic network and now you have things like segmentation isolated segments and via VRF or, or some micro segmentation via partners, this allows various level of security for each of those segments. So it's important you know, that, that the network infrastructure has the ability, you know, to provide all this, this services from a Dell networking security perspective, right? >>You know, there are multiple layer of defense, you know, both at the edge and in the network in this hardware and in the software and essentially, you know, a set of rules and a configuration that's designed to sort of protect the integrity, confidentiality, and accessibility of the network assets. So each network security layer, it implements policies and controls as I said, you know, including send network segmentation. We do have capabilities sources, centralized management automation and capability and scalability for that matter. Now you add all of these things, you know, with the open networking standards or software, different principles and you essentially, you know, reach to the point where you know, you're looking at zero trust network access, which is essentially sort of a building block for increased cloud adoption. If you look at say that you know the different pillars of a zero trust architecture, you know, if you look at the device aspect, you know, we do have support for security for example, we do have say trust platform in a trusted platform models tpms on certain offer products and you know, the physical security know plain, simple old one love port enable from a user trust perspective, we know it's all done via access control days via role based access control and say capability in order to provide say remote authentication or things like say sticky Mac or Mac learning limit and so on. >>If you look at say a transport and decision trust layer, these are essentially, you know, how do you access, you know, this switch, you know, is it by plain hotel net or is it like secure ssh, right? And you know, when a host communicates, you know, to the switch, we do have things like self-signed or is certificate authority based certification. And one of the important aspect is, you know, in terms of, you know, the routing protocol, the routing protocol, say for example BGP for example, we do have the capability to support MD five authentication between the b g peers so that there is no, you know, manages attack, you know, to the network where the routing table is compromised. And the other aspect is about second control plane is here, you know, you know, it's, it's typical that if you don't have a control plane here, you know, it could be flooded and you know, you know, the switch could be compromised by city denial service attacks. >>From an application test perspective, as I mentioned, you know, we do have, you know, the application specific security rules where you could actually define, you know, the specific security rules based on the specific applications, you know, that are running within the system. And I did talk about, say the digital signature and the cryptographic check that we do for authentication and for, I mean rather for the authenticity and the validation of, you know, of the image and the BS and so on and so forth. Finally, you know, the data trust, we are looking at, you know, the network separation, you know, the network separation could happen or VRF plain old wheel Ls, you know, which can bring about sales multi 10 aspects. We talk about some microsegmentation as it applies to nsx for example. The other aspect is, you know, we do have, with our own smart fabric services that's enabled in a fabric, we have a concept of c cluster security. So all of this, you know, the different pillars, they sort of make up for the zero trust infrastructure for the networking assets of an infrastructure. >>Yeah. So thank you for that. There's a, there's a lot to unpack there. You know, one of the premise, the premise really of this, this, this, this segment that we're setting up in this series is really that everything you just mentioned, or a lot of things you just mentioned used to be the responsibility of the security team. And, and the premise that we're putting forth is that because security teams are so stretched thin, you, you gotta shift the vendor community. Dell specifically is shifting a lot of those tasks to their own r and d and taking care of a lot of that. So, cuz scop teams got a lot of other stuff to, to worry about. So my question relates to things like automation, which can help and scalability, what about those topics as it relates to networking infrastructure? >>Okay, our >>Portfolio, it enables state of the automation software, you know, that enables simplifying of the design. So for example, we do have, you know, you know the fabric design center, you know, a tool that automates the design of the fabric and you know, from a deployment and you know, the management of the network infrastructure that are simplicities, you know, using like Ansible s for Sonic for example are, you know, for a better sit and tell story. You know, we do have smart fabric services that can automate the entire fabric, you know, for a storage solution or for, you know, for one of the workloads for example. Now we do help reduce the complexity by closely integrating the management of the physical and the virtual networking infrastructure. And again, you know, we have those capabilities using Sonic or Smart Traffic services. If you look at Sonic for example, right? >>It delivers automated intent based secure containerized network and it has the ability to provide some network visibility and Avan has and, and all of these things are actually valid, you know, for a modern networking infrastructure. So now if you look at Sonic, you know, it's, you know, the usage of those tools, you know, that are available, you know, within the Sonic no is not restricted, you know, just to the data center infrastructure is, it's a unified no, you know, that's well applicable beyond the data center, you know, right up to the edge. Now if you look at our north from a smart traffic OS 10 perspective, you know, as I mentioned, we do have smart traffic services which essentially, you know, simplifies the deployment day zero, I mean rather day one, day two deployment expansion plans and the lifecycle management of our conversion infrastructure and hyper and hyper conversion infrastructure solutions. And finally, in order to enable say, zero touch deployment, we do have, you know, a VP solution with our SD van capability. So these are, you know, ways by which we bring down the complexity by, you know, enhancing the automation capability using, you know, a singular loss that can expand from a data center now right to the edge. >>Great, thank you for that. Last question real quick, just pitch me, what can you summarize from your point of view, what's the strength of the Dell networking portfolio? >>Okay, so from a Dell networking portfolio, we support capabilities at multiple layers. As I mentioned, we're talking about the physical security for examples, say disabling of the unused interface. Sticky Mac and trusted platform modules are the things that to go after. And when you're talking about say secure boot for example, it delivers the authenticity and the integrity of the OS 10 images at the startup. And Secure Boot also protects the startup configuration so that, you know, the startup configuration file is not compromised. And Secure port also enables the workload of prediction, for example, that is at another aspect of software image integrity validation, you know, wherein the image is data for the digital signature, you know, prior to any upgrade process. And if you are looking at secure access control, we do have things like role based access control, SSH to the switches, control plane access control that pre do tags and say access control from multifactor authentication. >>We do have various tech ads for entry control to the network and things like CSE and PRV support, you know, from a federal perspective we do have say logging wherein, you know, any event, any auditing capabilities can be possible by say looking at the clog service, you know, which are pretty much in our transmitter from the devices overts for example, and last we talked about say network segment, you know, say network separation and you know, these, you know, separation, you know, ensures that are, that is, you know, a contained say segment, you know, for a specific purpose or for the specific zone and, you know, just can be implemented by a, a micro segmentation, you know, just a plain old wheel or using virtual route of framework VR for example. >>A lot there. I mean I think frankly, you know, my takeaway is you guys do the heavy lifting in a very complicated topic. So thank you so much for, for coming on the cube and explaining that in in quite some depth. Really appreciate it. >>Thank you indeed. >>Oh, you're very welcome. Okay, in a moment I'll be back to dig into the hyper-converged infrastructure part of the portfolio and look at how when you enter the world of software defined where you're controlling servers and storage and networks via software led system, you could be sure that your infrastructure is trusted and secure. You're watching a blueprint for trusted infrastructure made possible by Dell Technologies and collaboration with the cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage, your own west product management security lead at for HCI at Dell Technologies hyper-converged infrastructure. Jerome, welcome. >>Thank you Dave. >>Hey Jerome, in this series of blueprint for trusted infrastructure, we've been digging into the different parts of the infrastructure stack, including storage servers and networking, and now we want to cover hyperconverged infrastructure. So my first question is, what's unique about HCI that presents specific security challenges? What do we need to know? >>So what's unique about hyper-converge infrastructure is the breadth of the security challenge. We can't simply focus on a single type of IT system. So like a server or storage system or a virtualization piece of software, software. I mean HCI is all of those things. So luckily we have excellent partners like VMware, Microsoft, and internal partners like the Dell Power Edge team, the Dell storage team, the Dell networking team, and on and on. These partnerships in these collaborations are what make us successful from a security standpoint. So let me give you an example to illustrate. In the recent past we're seeing growing scope and sophistication in supply chain attacks. This mean an attacker is going to attack your software supply chain upstream so that hopefully a piece of code, malicious code that wasn't identified early in the software supply chain is distributed like a large player, like a VMware or Microsoft or a Dell. So to confront this kind of sophisticated hard to defeat problem, we need short term solutions and we need long term solutions as well. >>So for the short term solution, the obvious thing to do is to patch the vulnerability. The complexity is for our HCI portfolio. We build our software on VMware, so we would have to consume a patch that VMware would produce and provide it to our customers in a timely manner. Luckily VX rail's engineering team has co engineered a release process with VMware that significantly shortens our development life cycle so that VMware would produce a patch and within 14 days we will integrate our own code with the VMware release we will have tested and validated the update and we will give an update to our customers within 14 days of that VMware release. That as a result of this kind of rapid development process, VHA had over 40 releases of software updates last year for a longer term solution. We're partnering with VMware and others to develop a software bill of materials. We work with VMware to consume their software manifest, including their upstream vendors and their open source providers to have a comprehensive list of software components. Then we aren't caught off guard by an unforeseen vulnerability and we're more able to easily detect where the software problem lies so that we can quickly address it. So these are the kind of relationships and solutions that we can co engineer with effective collaborations with our, with our partners. >>Great, thank you for that. That description. So if I had to define what cybersecurity resilience means to HCI or converged infrastructure, and to me my takeaway was you gotta have a short term instant patch solution and then you gotta do an integration in a very short time, you know, two weeks to then have that integration done. And then longer term you have to have a software bill of materials so that you can ensure the providence of all the components help us. Is that a right way to think about cybersecurity resilience? Do you have, you know, a additives to that definition? >>I do. I really think that's site cybersecurity and resilience for hci because like I said, it has sort of unprecedented breadth across our portfolio. It's not a single thing, it's a bit of everything. So really the strength or the secret sauce is to combine all the solutions that our partner develops while integrating them with our own layer. So let me, let me give you an example. So hci, it's a, basically taking a software abstraction of hardware functionality and implementing it into something called the virtualized layer. It's basically the virtual virtualizing hardware functionality, like say a storage controller, you could implement it in hardware, but for hci, for example, in our VX rail portfolio, we, our Vxl product, we integrated it into a product called vsan, which is provided by our partner VMware. So that portfolio of strength is still, you know, through our, through our partnerships. >>So what we do, we integrate these, these security functionality and features in into our product. So our partnership grows to our ecosystem through products like VMware, products like nsx, Horizon, Carbon Black and vSphere. All of them integrate seamlessly with VMware and we also leverage VMware's software, part software partnerships on top of that. So for example, VX supports multifactor authentication through vSphere integration with something called Active Directory Federation services for adfs. So there's a lot of providers that support adfs including Microsoft Azure. So now we can support a wide array of identity providers such as Off Zero or I mentioned Azure or Active Directory through that partnership. So we can leverage all of our partners partnerships as well. So there's sort of a second layer. So being able to secure all of that, that provides a lot of options and flexibility for our customers. So basically to summarize my my answer, we consume all of the security advantages of our partners, but we also expand on them to make a product that is comprehensively secured at multiple layers from the hardware layer that's provided by Dell through Power Edge to the hyper-converged software that we build ourselves to the virtualization layer that we get through our partnerships with Microsoft and VMware. >>Great, I mean that's super helpful. You've mentioned nsx, Horizon, Carbon Black, all the, you know, the VMware component OTH zero, which the developers are gonna love. You got Azure identity, so it's really an ecosystem. So you may have actually answered my next question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway cuz you've got this software defined environment and you're managing servers and networking and storage with this software led approach, how do you ensure that the entire system is secure end to end? >>That's a really great question. So the, the answer is we do testing and validation as part of the engineering process. It's not just bolted on at the end. So when we do, for example, VxRail is the market's only co engineered solution with VMware, other vendors sell VMware as a hyper converged solution, but we actually include security as part of the co-engineering process with VMware. So it's considered when VMware builds their code and their process dovetails with ours because we have a secure development life cycle, which other products might talk about in their discussions with you that we integrate into our engineering life cycle. So because we follow the same framework, all of the, all of the codes should interoperate from a security standpoint. And so when we do our final validation testing when we do a software release, we're already halfway there in ensuring that all these features will give the customers what we promised. >>That's great. All right, let's, let's close pitch me, what would you say is the strong suit summarize the, the strengths of the Dell hyper-converged infrastructure and converged infrastructure portfolio specifically from a security perspective? Jerome? >>So I talked about how hyper hyper-converged infrastructure simplifies security management because basically you're gonna take all of these features that are abstracted in in hardware, they're now abstracted in the virtualization layer. Now you can manage them from a single point of view, whether it would be, say, you know, in for VX rail would be b be center, for example. So by abstracting all this, you make it very easy to manage security and highly flexible because now you don't have limitations around a single vendor. You have a multiple array of choices and partnerships to select. So I would say that is the, the key to making it to hci. Now, what makes Dell the market leader in HCI is not only do we have that functionality, but we also make it exceptionally useful to you because it's co engineered, it's not bolted on. So I gave the example of spo, I gave the example of how we, we modify our software release process with VMware to make it very responsive. >>A couple of other features that we have specific just to HCI are digitally signed LCM updates. This is an example of a feature that we have that's only exclusive to Dell that's not done through a partnership. So we digitally signed our software updates so the user can be sure that the, the update that they're installing into their system is an authentic and unmodified product. So we give it a Dell signature that's invalidated prior to installation. So not only do we consume the features that others develop in a seamless and fully validated way, but we also bolt on our own a specific HCI security features that work with all the other partnerships and give the user an exceptional security experience. So for, for example, the benefit to the customer is you don't have to create a complicated security framework that's hard for your users to use and it's hard for your system administrators to manage it all comes in a package. So it, it can be all managed through vCenter, for example, or, and then the specific hyper, hyper-converged functions can be managed through VxRail manager or through STDC manager. So there's very few pains of glass that the, the administrator or user ever has to worry about. It's all self contained and manageable. >>That makes a lot of sense. So you've got your own infrastructure, you're applying your best practices to that, like the digital signatures, you've got your ecosystem, you're doing co-engineering with the ecosystems, delivering security in a package, minimizing the complexity at the infrastructure level. The reason Jerome, this is so important is because SecOps teams, you know, they gotta deal with cloud security, they gotta deal with multiple clouds. Now they have their shared responsibility model going across multiple cl. They got all this other stuff that they have to worry, they gotta secure the containers and the run time and and, and, and, and the platform and so forth. So they're being asked to do other things. If they have to worry about all the things that you just mentioned, they'll never get, you know, the, the securities is gonna get worse. So what my takeaway is, you're removing that infrastructure piece and saying, Okay guys, you now can focus on those other things that is not necessarily Dell's, you know, domain, but you, you know, you can work with other partners to and your own teams to really nail that. Is that a fair summary? >>I think that is a fair summary because absolutely the worst thing you can do from a security perspective is provide a feature that's so unusable that the administrator disables it or other key security features. So when I work with my partners to define, to define and develop a new security feature, the thing I keep foremost in mind is, will this be something our users want to use and our administrators want to administer? Because if it's not, if it's something that's too difficult or onerous or complex, then I try to find ways to make it more user friendly and practical. And this is a challenge sometimes because we are, our products operate in highly regulated environments and sometimes they have to have certain rules and certain configurations that aren't the most user friendly or management friendly. So I, I put a lot of effort into thinking about how can we make this feature useful while still complying with all the regulations that we have to comply with. And by the way, we're very successful in a highly regulated space. We sell a lot of VxRail, for example, into the Department of Defense and banks and, and other highly regulated environments and we're very successful there. >>Excellent. Okay, Jerome, thanks. We're gonna leave it there for now. I'd love to have you back to talk about the progress that you're making down the road. Things always, you know, advance in the tech industry and so would appreciate that. >>I would look forward to it. Thank you very much, Dave. >>You're really welcome. In a moment I'll be back to summarize the program and offer some resources that can help you on your journey to secure your enterprise infrastructure. I wanna thank our guests for their contributions in helping us understand how investments by a company like Dell can both reduce the need for dev sec up teams to worry about some of the more fundamental security issues around infrastructure and have greater confidence in the quality providence and data protection designed in to core infrastructure like servers, storage, networking, and hyper-converged systems. You know, at the end of the day, whether your workloads are in the cloud, on prem or at the edge, you are responsible for your own security. But vendor r and d and vendor process must play an important role in easing the burden faced by security devs and operation teams. And on behalf of the cube production content and social teams as well as Dell Technologies, we want to thank you for watching a blueprint for trusted infrastructure. Remember part one of this series as well as all the videos associated with this program and of course today's program are available on demand@thecube.net with additional coverage@siliconangle.com. And you can go to dell.com/security solutions dell.com/security solutions to learn more about Dell's approach to securing infrastructure. And there's tons of additional resources that can help you on your journey. This is Dave Valante for the Cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) >> We're back with Jerome West, the Product Management Security Lead for HCI at Dell Technologies Hyper-Converged Infrastructure. Jerome, welcome. >> Thank you, Dave. >> Hey, Jerome, in this series "A Blueprint for Trusted Infrastructure," we've been digging into the different parts of the infrastructure stack, including storage servers and networking, and now we want to cover hyper-converged infrastructure. So my first question is what's unique about HCI that presents specific security challenges? What do we need to know? >> So what's unique about hyper-converged infrastructure is the breadth of the security challenge. We can't simply focus on a single type of IT system, so like a server or a storage system or a virtualization piece of software. I mean, HCI is all of those things. So luckily we have excellent partners like VMware, Microsoft and internal partners, like the Dell Power Edge Team, the Dell Storage Team, the Dell Networking Team, and on and on. These partnerships and these collaborations are what make us successful from a security standpoint. So let me give you an example to illustrate. In the recent past, we're seeing growing scope and sophistication in supply chain attacks. This means an attacker is going to attack your software supply chain upstream, so that hopefully a piece of code, malicious code that wasn't identified early in the software supply chain is distributed like a large player, like a VMware or a Microsoft or a Dell. So to confront this kind of sophisticated hard to defeat problem, we need short-term solutions and we need long-term solutions as well. So for the short-term solution, the obvious thing to do is to patch the vulnerability. The complexity is for our HCI portfolio, we build our software on VMware. So we would have to consume a patch that VMware would produce and provide it to our customers in a timely manner. Luckily, VxRail's engineering team has co engineered a release process with VMware that significantly shortens our development life cycle, so that VMware will produce a patch, and within 14 days we will integrate our own code with the VMware release. We will have tested and validated the update, and we will give an update to our customers within 14 days of that VMware release. That as a result of this kind of rapid development process, VxRail had over 40 releases of software updates last year. For a longer term solution, we're partnering with VMware and others to develop a software bill of materials. We work with VMware to consume their software manifest including their upstream vendors and their open source providers to have a comprehensive list of software components. Then we aren't caught off guard by an unforeseen vulnerability, and we're more able to easily detect where the software problem lies so that we can quickly address it. So these are the kind of relationships and solutions that we can co-engineer with effective collaborations with our partners. >> Great, thank you for that description. So if I had to define what cybersecurity resilience means to HCI or converged infrastructure, to me, my takeaway was you got to have a short-term instant patch solution and then you got to do an integration in a very short time, you know, two weeks to then have that integration done. And then longer-term, you have to have a software bill of materials so that you can ensure the provenance of all the components. Help us, is that a right way to think about cybersecurity resilience? Do you have, you know, additives to that definition? >> I do. I really think that cybersecurity and resilience for HCI, because like I said it has sort of unprecedented breadth across our portfolio. It's not a single thing. It's a bit of everything. So really the strength or the secret sauce is to combine all the solutions that our partner develops while integrating them with our own layer. So let me give you an example. So HCI, it's a basically taking a software abstraction of hardware functionality and implementing it into something called the virtualized layer. It's basically the virtualizing hardware functionality, like say a storage controller. You could implement it in the hardware, but for HCI, for example, in our VxRail portfolio, our VxRail product, we integrated it into a product called vSan which is provided by our partner VMware. So that portfolio strength is still, you know, through our partnerships. So what we do, we integrate these security functionality and features into our product. So our partnership grows through our ecosystem through products like VMware products, like NSX, Horizon, Carbon Black and vSphere. All of them integrate seamlessly with VMware. And we also leverage VMware's software partnerships on top of that. So for example, VxRail supports multifactor authentication through vSphere's integration with something called Active Directory Federation Services or ADFS. So there is a lot of providers that support ADFS, including Microsoft Azure. So now we can support a wide array of identity providers such as Auth0, or I mentioned Azure or Active Directory through that partnership. So we can leverage all of our partners' partnerships as well. So there's sort of a second layer. So being able to secure all of that, that provides a lot of options and flexibility for our customers. So basically to summarize my answer, we consume all of the security advantages of our partners, but we also expand on them to make a product that is comprehensively secured at multiple layers from the hardware layer that's provided by Dell through Power Edge to the hyper-converged software that we build ourselves to the virtualization layer that we get through our partnerships with Microsoft and VMware. >> Great, I mean, that's super helpful. You've mentioned NSX, Horizon, Carbon Black, all the you know, the VMware component, Auth0, which the developers are going to love. You got Azure Identity. So it's really an ecosystem. So you may have actually answered my next question, but I'm going to ask it anyway cause you've got this software-defined environment, and you're managing servers and networking and storage with this software-led approach. How do you ensure that the entire system is secure end to end? >> That's a really great question. So the answer is we do testing and validation as part of the engineering process. It's not just bolted on at the end. So when we do, for example VxRail is the market's only co-engineered solution with VMware. Other vendors sell VMware as a hyper-converged solution, but we actually include security as part of the co-engineering process with VMware. So it's considered when VMware builds their code, and their process dovetails with ours because we have a secure development lifecycle which other products might talk about in their discussions with you, that we integrate into our engineering lifecycle. So because we follow the same framework, all of the code should inter-operate from a security standpoint. And so when we do our final validation testing, when we do a software release, we're already halfway there in ensuring that all these features will give the customers what we promised. >> That's great. All right, let's close. Pitch me. What would you say is the strong suit, summarize the the strengths of the Dell hyper-converged infrastructure and converged infrastructure portfolio, specifically from a security perspective, Jerome? >> So I talked about how hyper-converged infrastructure simplifies security management because basically you're going to take all of these features that are abstracted in hardware. They're not abstracted in the virtualization layer. Now you can manage them from a single point of view, whether it would be say, you know, for VxRail it would be vCenter, for example. So by abstracting all this, you make it very easy to manage security and highly flexible because now you don't have limitations around a single vendor. You have a multiple array of choices and partnerships to select. So I would say that is the key to making, to HCI. Now what makes Dell the market leader in HCI is not only do we have that functionality, but we also make it exceptionally useful to you because it's co-engineered. It's not bolted on. So I gave the example of SBOM. I gave the example of how we modify our software release process with VMware to make it very responsive. A couple of other features that we have specific just to HCI are digitally signed LCM updates. This is an example of a feature that we have that's only exclusive to Dell. It's not done through a partnership. So we digitally sign our software updates. So the user can be sure that the update that they're installing into their system is an authentic and unmodified product. So we give it a Dell signature that's invalidated prior to installation. So not only do we consume the features that others develop in a seamless and fully validated way, but we also bolt on our own specific HCI security features that work with all the other partnerships and give the user an exceptional security experience. So for example, the benefit to the customer is you don't have to create a complicated security framework. That's hard for your users to use, and it's hard for your system administrators to manage. It all comes in a package, so it can be all managed through vCenter, for example. And then the specific hyper-converged functions can be managed through VxRail manager or through STDC manager. So there's very few panes of glass that the administrator or user ever has to worry about. It's all self-contained and manageable. >> That makes a lot of sense. So you've got your own infrastructure. You're applying your best practices to that like the digital signatures. You've got your ecosystem. You're doing co-engineering with the ecosystems, delivering security in a package, minimizing the complexity at the infrastructure level. The reason, Jerome, this is so important is because SecOps teams, you know, they got to deal with Cloud security. They got to deal with multiple Clouds. Now they have their shared responsibility model going across multiple. They got all this other stuff that they have to worry. They got to secure the containers and the run time and the platform and so forth. So they're being asked to do other things. If they have to worry about all the things that you just mentioned, they'll never get, you know, the security is just going to get worse. So my takeaway is you're removing that infrastructure piece and saying, okay, guys, you now can focus on those other things that is not necessarily Dell's, you know, domain, but you, you know, you can work with other partners and your own teams to really nail that. Is that a fair summary? >> I think that is a fair summary because absolutely the worst thing you can do from a security perspective is provide a feature that's so unusable that the administrator disables it or other key security features. So when I work with my partners to define and develop a new security feature, the thing I keep foremost in mind is will this be something our users want to use and our administrators want to administer? Because if it's not, if it's something that's too difficult or onerous or complex, then I try to find ways to make it more user-friendly and practical. And this is a challenge sometimes because our products operate in highly regulated environments, and sometimes they have to have certain rules and certain configurations that aren't the most user friendly or management friendly. So I put a lot of effort into thinking about how can we make this feature useful while still complying with all the regulations that we have to comply with. And by the way, we're very successful in a highly regulated space. We sell a lot of VxRail, for example, into the Department of Defense and banks and other highly regulated environments. And we're very successful there. >> Excellent, okay, Jerome, thanks. We're going to leave it there for now. I'd love to have you back to talk about the progress that you're making down the road. Things always, you know, advance in the tech industry, and so would appreciate that >> I would look forward to it. Thank you very much, Dave. >> You're really welcome. In a moment, I'll be back to summarize the program and offer some resources that can help you on your journey to secure your enterprise infrastructure. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hi, Lisa Martin here with theCUBE. You're watching our coverage of Dell Technologies World, the Digital Virtual Experience. I've got two guests with me here today. We're going to be talking about the University of Pisa and how it is leaning into all flash deal that is powered by Dell Technologies. One of our alumni is back, Maurizio Davini, the CTO of the University of Pisa. Maurizio, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you. You're always welcome. >> Very excited to talk to you today. Kaushik Ghosh is here as well, The Director of Product Management at Dell Technologies. Kaushik, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> So here we are at this virtual event again. Maurizio, you were last on theCUBE at VM world a few months ago, the virtual experience as well. But talk to our audience a little bit, before we dig into the technology and some of these demanding workloads that the University is utilizing, talk to me a little bit about your role as CTO and about the University. >> So my role as CTO at University of Pisa is regarding the data center operations and scientific computing support. It is the main occupation that I have. Then I support also, the technological choices That the University of Pisa is doing during the latest two or three years. >> Talk to me about something, so this is in terms of students, we're talking about 50,000 or so students, 3000 faculty and the campus is distributed around the town of Pisa. Is that correct, Maurizio? >> The University of Pisa is sort of a town campus in the sense that we have 20 departments that are located inside the medieval town, but due to the choices that University of Pisa has done in the last '90s, we are owner of a private fiber network connecting all our departments and all our (indistinct). And so we can use the town as a sort of white board to design new services, new kind of support for teaching and so on. >> So you've really modernized the data infrastructure for the University that was founded in the middle ages. Talk to me now about some of the workloads, Maurizio, that are generating massive amounts of data and then we'll get into what you're doing with Dell Technologies. >> Oh, so the University of Pisa has a quite old historian HPC, traditional HPC. So we are supporting the traditional workloads from CAE or engineering or chemistry or oil and gas simulations. Of course, during the pandemic year, last year especially, we have new kind of workload scan, some related to the fast movement of the HPC workload from let's say, traditional HPC to AI and machine learning. And also, they request to support a lot of remote activities coming from distance learning to remotize laboratories or stations or whatever, most elder in presence in the past. And so the impact either on the infrastructure or, and especially on the storage part, was significant. >> So you talked about utilizing the high performance computing environments for a while and for scientific computing and things, I saw a case study that you guys have done with Dell, but then during the pandemic, the challenge and the use case of remote learning brought additional challenges to your environment. From that perspective, how were you able to transfer your curriculum to online and enable the scientists, the physicists, the oil and gas folks doing research to still access that data at the speed that they needed to? >> You know, for what you got distance learning, of course, we were based on cloud services that were not provided internally by us. So we based on Microsoft services, on Google services and so on. But what regards internal support, scientific computing was completely remotized, either on support or experience, because how can I bring some examples? For example, laboratory activities were remotized. The access to the laboratories was (indistinct) remote as much as possible. We designed a special network to connect all the laboratories and to give the researcher the possibility of accessing the data on this special network. So a sort of a collector of data inside our university network. You can imagine that... Utilization, for example, was a key factor for us because utilization was, for us, a flexible way to deliver new services in an easy way, especially, if you have to administer systems for remote. So as I told you before about the network as a white board, also, the computer infrastructure was (indistinct) utilization treated as a sort of (indistinct). We were designing new services, either for interactive services, or especially for scientific computing. For example, we have an experience with utilization of HPC workload, storage and so on. >> Talk to me about the storage impact because as we know, we talk about these very demanding unstructured workloads, AI, machine learning, and those are difficult for most storage systems to handle. Maurizio, talk to us about why you leaned into all flash with Dell Technologies and talk to us a little bit about the technologies that you've implemented. >> So if I have to think about our storage infrastructure before the pandemic, I have to think about Isilon, because our HPC workloads was mainly based off Isilon as a storage infrastructure. Together, with some final defense system, as you can imagine, we were deploying in our homes. During the pandemic, but especially with the explosion of the AI, the blueprint of the storage requests changed a lot because what we had until then, and in our case, was an hybrid Isilon solution. Didn't fit so well for HB, for AI (indistinct) and this is why we started the migration. It was not really migration, but the sort of integration of the Power Scale or flash machine inside our environment, because then the Power Scale or flash, and especially, I hope in the future, the MVME support is a key factor for the storage, storage support. We already have experienced some of the MVME possibilities on the Power Max that we have here that we use (indistinct) and part for VDI support, but flash is the minimum and MVME is what we need to support in the right way the AI workloads. >> Lisa: Kaushik, talk to me about what Dell Technologies has seen. The optic the demand for this. As Maurizio said, they were using Isilon before, adding in Power Scale. What are some of the changing demands that Dell technologies has seen and how does technologies like Power Scale and the F900 facilitate these organizations being able to rapidly change their environment so that they can utilize and extract the value from data? >> Yeah, no, absolutely. Artificial intelligence is an area that continues to amaze me and personally, I think the potential here is immense. As Maurizio said, right? The data sets with artificial intelligence have grown significantly, and not only the data has become larger, the models, the AI models that are used have become more complex. For example, one of the studies suggests that for a modeling of natural language processing, one of the fields in AI, the number of parameters used could exceed like a trillion in a few years, right? So almost the size of a human brain. So not only that means that there's a lot of data to be processed, but the process stored ingested, but probably has to be done in the same amount of time as before or perhaps even a smaller amount of time, right? So larger data, same time, or perhaps even a smaller amount of time. So, absolutely, I agree. For these types of workloads, you need a storage that gives you that high-performance access, but also being able to store that data economically. >> Lisa: And Kaushik, how does Dell technologies deliver that? The ability to scale the economics. What's unique and differentiated about Power Scale? >> So Power Scale is our all flash system. It uses some of the same capabilities that Isilon products used to offer. The 1 FS file system capabilities. Some of the same capabilities that (indistinct) has used and loved in the past. So some of those same capabilities are brought forward now. on this Power Scale platform. There are some changes, like for example, our new Power Scale platform supports NVDR GPU direct, right? So for artificial intelligence workloads, you do need these GPU capable machines and Power Scale supports those high-performance GPU direct machines through the different technologies that we offer, and the Power Scale F 900, which we are going to launch very soon is our best highest performance all flash and the most economical all flash to date. So it not only is our fastest, but also offers the most economical way of storing the data. So ideal for these type of high-performance workloads, like AIML, deep learning and so on. >> Excellent. Maurizio, talk to me about some of the results that the University is achieving so far. I did read a three X improvement in IO performance. You were able to get nearly a hundred percent of the curriculum online pretty quickly, but talk to me about some of the other impacts that Dell technologies is helping the University to achieve. >> Oh, we are an old Dell customer and if you give a look what we have inside our data centers, we typically joking. We define as a sort of Dell technologies supermarket in the sense that the great part of our servers storage environment comes from Dell technology. Several generations of Power Edge servers, Power Max, Isilon, Power Scale, Power Sore. So we are using a lot of Dell technologies here, and of course, in the past, our traditional workloads were well supported by Dell technologies. And Dell technologies is driving us versus what we call the next generation workloads, because they are accompanying us in the transition versus the next generation computing, but to hope to adhere and (indistinct) to our researchers are looking for, because if I had to give a look to what we are doing mostly here, healthcare workloads, deep learning, data analysis, image analysis, same major extraction. Everything have to be supported, especially from the next generation servers, typically to keep with GPUs. This is why GPU direct is so important for us, but also, supported on the networking side, because the speed of the storage must be tied to the next generation networking. Low latency, high performance, because at the end of the day, you have to bring the data to the storage room, and typically, you do it by importing it. So they're one of the low latency, high performance interconnections. Zones is also a side effect of this new (indistinct). And of course, Dell Technologies is with us in this transition. >> I loved how you described your data centers as a Dell Technologies supermarket. Maybe a different way of talking about a center of excellence. Kaushik, I want to ask you about... I know that the University of Pisa is a SCOE for Dell. Talk to me about, in the last couple of minutes we have here, what that entails and how Dell helps customers become a center of excellence. >> Yeah. So Dell, like Maurizio has talked about, has a lot of the Dell products today. And in fact, he mentioned about the powered servers, the Power Scale F 900 is actually based on a powered server. So you can see. So a lot of these technologies are sort of interlinked with each other. They talk to each other, they work together and that sort of helps customers manage their entire ecosystem life cycle, data life cycle together versus as piece spots, because we have solutions that solve all aspects of our customer, like Maurizio's needs, right? So, yeah, I'm glad Maurizio is leveraging Dell and I'm happy we are able to help Maurizio solve all his use cases and when. >> Lisa: Excellent. Maurizio, last question, are you going to be using AI machine learning powered by Dell to determine if the tower of Pisa is going to continue to lean or if it's going to stay where it is? >> The leaning tower is an engineering miracle. Some years ago, an incredible engineering worker was able to fix the leaning for a while, and let's hope that the tower of Pisa stay there because it's one of our beauty that you can come to visit. >> And that's one part of Italy I haven't been to. So post pandemic, I got to add that to my travel plans. Maurizio and Kaushik, it's been a pleasure talking to you about how Dell is partnering with the University of Pisa to really help you power AI machine learning workloads to facilitate many use cases. We are looking forward to hearing what's next. Thanks for joining me this morning. >> Kaushik: Thank you. >> Maurizio: Thank you. For my guests, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of Dell technologies world, the digital event experience. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital Experience Brought to You by Dell Technologies Everyone welcome back to the cubes Coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience I'm John for your host of the Cube Cube. Virtual. We're not in person this year were remote We're doing The interviews were not face to face. So thanks for watching two great guests to talk about the Dell Technology Storage and data protection for the VM Ware environments got Caitlin Gordon, vice President, product management, Dale Technologies and Leak as well. Vice president of Cloud Platform Business Unit, also known as CPB. You for VM where Lee and Cable in Great to see you both. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks for having me >>s So what? What a crazy year. We're not in person. Usually the the events Awesome. VM world recently went on and then you guys have the same situation role online now and it's >>really kind >>of highlighted the customer environments of cloud needed. But I've been saying this on all my reports and all the Cube interviews that the executives who are in charge and now saying, Look at our modern APS have to be cloud native because the obvious benefits are there and container ization has become mainstream. But yet I d c still forecast about 15% of enterprises are still fully containing rise, with a huge amount of growth coming around the corner. So you're seeing this mature market where containers are validated, they're being put into production. People are now moving hard core with containers. And you have the kubernetes. I gotta ask you, Li, I'm Caitlin. What does this mean for the customers? Are they getting harder pressure points to do things faster? What does it all mean for the customer? >>Yeah, I'll start. Only you can add to it. I mean, I think what we see is the trends that were already happening of now. Accelerated and modern APs were kind of the top of the priority list, but now it has is really expedited. But at the same time, traditional applications haven't gone anywhere. So there's this dichotomy that a lot of I t is dealing with of head Oh, accelerate those modern APs while also streamlining and simplifying my environment for my traditional laps. And not only do I need to the right infrastructure to have that for production workloads, modern, traditional, but also form a data protection standpoint. How to ensure that those are all secure and do all of that in a way that simplifies life for whether it's the data protection admin, the BM admin or even the developer right, all of the different folks involved and needing to make all of their lives simpler has just really exacerbated a challenge and really given us a lot of opportunity to try to solve that for customers together. >>Lee, What's your take on the landscape out there? >>Yeah, I'd emphasized that speed really matters today, right? That we're really looking at. How do you go and deploy new applications faster, right? New ways to get engaged with customers. I mean, it's not happening physically anymore. So how is it happening while it's happening largely through applications? And so as you now basically develop new applications more quickly, containers are a way to speed the pace of applications, and the theme that you know we continue to drive home is that that means infrastructure has to respond more quickly, and it means that for the teams that are managing infrastructure, it really helps if you have a consistent model where you can get mawr done with the same teams and leverage all the experience you have, as well as the security and infrastructure resiliency model that we're bringing together to our customers. >>This brings up the real question, and if this comes up, kind of you see more of the executive level like we need to have a modern application direction. They'll go. Everyone goes, Yeah, of course. Thumbs up. Then they go Try to make that a reality because even though Dev ops and Infrastructures Code is still the viable path, it's hard. It's like Caitlin, we're talking about EJ to core Data center hybrid the multi cloud. There's a lot going on under the hood there. So you guys are doing a lot of stuff together. VM Ware and Dell Technologies. What's the solution for customers? They gotta move faster. As lead pointed out, Caitlin, how are you guys working together to make that infrastructure more modern, faster, programmable and reliable, >>and make it simpler for the customers right? I think it really comes down to one of the most powerful things about the partnership is that from the dull technology standpoint, we have really a plethora of different solutions to support your VM or environment. Whether it's a three tier architecture with Power Edge power store or leveraging the X rail. Or very commonly, it's gonna be both of those. You have the right infrastructure to support the production workloads and have a consistent operating model between them leveraging devils and primary storage side and all the integrations we have with the ex rail. And then we have with power, protect data manager Great integrations in some recent enhancements that make that even better and are now able to protect Tan Xue, protect the VCF management domain and not only have the storage, but also the protection for that environment. But do it in a way that supports what the V A madman needs and also gives that consistent protection, consistent storage, consistent operating model for the rest of I T. And at the same time you're enabling the developers to move faster. >>Lee, You guys have been doing a lot of joint development, and we've been covering a lot of the news VM world. Ah, lot of joint engineering, a lot of joint integrations. You guys have been collaborating with Dell Technologies for a long time. Also, the relationship. Where is that Today? Can you expand on that a little bit and take a minute to explain the joint >>collaboration? I'll start with the fact that you know, good marketing is really easy when you have great engineering. And so the work that we're doing together, like between our companies. Now we have a lot to talk about, right? E mean the work scaling mentioned right around Devil's integration, for example, on power Max right on da npower store, right? I mean, you start looking at the integration work that we're doing together. It means that customers are getting the benefits of the joint integration work and testing right that comes and so you're guaranteed out of the box toe work. Also, you know, don't forget that contain owners and all of the things we're doing around containers. It's basically designed thio accommodate the fact that containers air spun up more quickly or destroyed more quickly, their shared across the hybrid cloud more frequently and without an inherent security model and built in data protection. It's really hard to go and see how you can deploy these with the enterprise resilience that's demanded at enterprise scale. And so that's what we're doing together, right? And, you know, we build great software, Uh, but without great hardware partnerships, it's one hand clapping, right. It's about getting our teams together, right? That really makes it sing at the customer level. >>You know, I think that's a really example of the business. Performance results have come in Vienna, where you guys were doing a great job. Go way back to the years ago when Pat and Raghu we're talking with from Amazon and all. Since then, it's been joint development, join integrations, and that's a great business model for you. And so, Caitlyn, I wanna get back to you. Because at VMRO we covered Project Monterey, the new initiative for the anywhere but a year before they had Project Pacific that came toe life with product results. Tan Xue specifically, you guys have the power protect data manager that we talked about in the summer, but now for Tan Xue supported and Tan Xue environments that super relevant, can you share any updates on your end on the power protect Data Manager and Tan Xue? >>Yeah, I li I couldn't agree more that great engineering mix our jobs a lot more fun and a whole lot easier. So we've been really lucky. And the partnership we've had has really never been stronger. So yeah, but the most recent release of power protect Data Manager introduces the support for that tan xue protection. It also introduces really important things like storage, storage based policy management. So in in biosphere, when you set up a storage policy, you have data protection as part of that and you have the integration with power protect data Manager. So you're able to automatically protect new VM that are created by that storage policy of being applied. >>But >>at the same time, it's also being tracked in power. Protect Data Manager. So you have that consistency across enabling your vitamins and enabling your data protection your i t. Team. To keep track of that, we also have ah tech preview that we did at VM World about how we're working as from Dell technology standpoint to innovate around. How do you protect some of these VMS that are so large and so mission critical that you need to be able to protect them in a new and innovative way that doesn't disrupt the business. And we did a tech preview of that, and it's something you'll hear more about from us, too. But it's PM traditionally would be in this category of unprotected ble because of the impact it could have on the environment and how we're really looking to do that in a more efficient and intelligent way. So we can actually protect those be EMS. And there's there's really a whole lot more. When you talk about objects, scale and everything else that we've done, it's really exciting. And you don't think Lee and I have ever talked as much as we do now. Ah, and it's been a lot of a lot of fun. >>It's been great following both of you guys on the keep interviews over the years. The success in the vision We had early conversations about what the plans where it's kind of all playing out. So I want to congratulate both of you of VM Ware Adele Technology. So good job going forward. The collaboration. I want to get to that in a second, you'll into it. But Caitlin Lee, I want to get your thoughts because one of the big themes this year besides covert and all the issues that that's highlighting. But in the cloud world, automation has been the number one conversation we've been hearing, and with that you got machine learning all the tech around that as you abstract away. The complexity of the infrastructure to make the modern APS automation has been great. The business cross connect is everything is a service we're seeing. This is the big wave coming. Could you guys share your vision on how all this stuff you mentioned V balls and all objects scale all these things? There's a >>lot of >>plumbing underneath and a lot of tooling, a lot of part piece parts. If that gets programmable, >>automation >>kicks in, which then enables everything is the service because you guys both share your vision of what that means in terms of what's going to change and what would it impact the customer? >>Yeah, and it's very relevant for this week, right? Dell Technologies world. That's a big part of what we've announced this week in our commitment to really bringing our portfolio as a service, and it's really interesting, especially for folks like Lee and I, who have been doing kind of mawr product marking and talking about speeds and feeds and thinking about how you make the product life simpler. And how do you automate that? Have the intelligence built in things like Biaro have been such an important part of that, especially with power store coming to market. But if you think about where that leads us, actually changes everything, which is when you have everything as a service and we're really delivering outcomes to our customers and no longer products. That automation is actually just a important and maybe even more important. But it's not the end user that cares about it directly is actually us, because as Dell Technologies, we become the ones managing that infrastructure, owning that infrastructure and the more automation we can bring in, the more intelligence we can build them for ourselves. The more insights we can give to our customers, the better that service can become. And it's really a flip from how we've always been thinking about and really rolling out automation. It's not actually about enabling our end users to do anything. It's actually about enabling them to not worry about any of it, but enable our own organization to support their outcomes better. So it really changes everything. >>Lee, what's your thoughts on this? Everything you've got, V Sphere V Center. You've got all the storage you got all the back up. All this stuff has to be automated. Makes sense. But as a service, how does that impact your world? >>You know, it really does. When you think about the VMRO Cloud Foundation, right, which is the integration of all of our V sphere with Visa. And with these, you know, our NSX products that will be realized. Management suite. Tom Zoo now, right, All of this pulled together. One of things that's interesting is when you go to the public cloud, we have some experience now where we always deliver that full stack together. And what that does is it frees up customers. Thio, go on, focus on the applications, I think and stop looking down the infrastructure. Start looking up at the APS. And so we're offering and bringing that same level of experience to the on premises data centers. And now bridging that across the hybrid cloud that all of a sudden gives you this sense that Hey, I'm future ready. No, matter where I am today. If I'm thinking about the hybrid cloud, I could go on move there, right. And with our partnership with Dell Technologies, there's such a great opportunity to bridge that uniquely, by the way across all of my on premises infrastructure, including common policy based management, back into storage through RV Valls efforts, right and then back in through objects scale right into objects based, uh, applications and through our DP efforts to data protection efforts, then back into, like, date full data protection. And so what you get now is we're helping customers realize that I got this. I could take new Cooper navies orchestrated applications and I could make them work and do it with the same operational model that I have today. Start spending more time on the applications, less time, basically configuring and managing underlying infrastructure. >>Caitlin you mentioned that earlier at the top of the segment, ease of use, making it easier, simpler, great stuff on the on on the future. Lee, I gotta ask you about Project Monterey. We did a lot of coverage on VM World on silicon angle in the Cube. I love how this comes out. It's always, You know, the brain trust that VM Ware lays out the future, they fill it in throughout the year, expect to see some meat on the bone there. But what is that gonna do from for new capabilities and how with Dell Technologies? Because, um, it's end to end, right this Michael Dell and I talked, I think, two years ago, a Dell Tech world. And then last year, he hit the point home hard and to end with Dell Technologies. It kind of feels like it's gonna be a good fit. Could you share how that Monterey project fits in with Dell Technologies? >>Yeah. We're so pleased to be showing this together with Dell Technologies at the VM World to showcase this new idea that you could basically go on, start offloading CPUs and using smart knicks as a way to basically now provide, um or let's call it a, You know, a architecture that allows you to, uh, be responsive to new application needs. So let me talk a little bit about that. So when we opened up Tansu, right, we got this complete inflow pouring of new container base kubernetes orchestrated APS. So what? We found was, Hey, they're driving a lot of CPU needs their driving a lot of scale out security needs for things like distributed firewalls. And so we started looking at this, and what's clear is we need to basically use the CPU very judiciously, So it's basically reserved for the APS. And so what we're doing now is we're basically saying there's an opportunity for us to go in, offload the CPU for things that look more like infrastructure, including S X, I and other things. And at the same time, then we could go and work together with Dell Technologies to be the deployment vehicle. And so, just like Project Pacific, which was going broad, if you will, this project moderate, which is going deep like the canyon, John not far from here, um is, you know, a source of all new discovery right where we'll be working together and over time, just like the Project Pacific name faded to black and became product Tan Xue vcf with Tom juvie sphere. With Hangzhou, we'll see that Project Monterey will evolve into new products coming together with Dell Technologies. >>Caitlin, can you elaborate on Take a min, explain the product how this renders into products because I can also imagine just the benefits just from a security standpoint. Efficiency. If the platform, um, there's a range of things, could you take a minute to >>explain the >>impact on products? >>Yeah, I think you'll hear a lot more about it, but we're obviously excited to be partners on this is Well, and I think it's It's just another example of the more intelligent the infrastructure can become than the rest of the entire I T organization can run more efficiently and that that can come in the form of the A. I built into power, Max, that can come in the form of the evils that we have both in Power Max and Power Store that can come in the form of even just the fact that we have now built a fully containerized S three compatible objects or platform called objects scale which we have no in early access. Um, that can run on the V sand data persistence platform, and it just gives you the ability to leverage this all of the right technology. And we can continue to really partner on that. I think Project Monterey really opens up even more opportunities to do that, and you'll certainly hear more from us on that in the future. >>I >>mean, you got compression, you got encryption. A lot of benefits across the board. Great to have you guys both on and your graduation. The great event. Final question for both of you, talk about this has been a crazy year. We're not face to face, so everything will be online. What should customers and partners and people watching know about the relationship between VM Ware and Dell Technologies this year? What's the big message to take away? What should people walk away with and and think about? >>I think it's It's never been stronger than ever, uh, than it's been than it is right now. We have never had >>more >>breath and more depth of integration. I think that the partnership on the engineering level, on the product management level on the marketing level, we have really never been in a better place. And you know what? What? My team is really enjoyed with VM world season and you're coming up on Deltek. World season is we've really enjoyed the fact that we've had so much richness >>of >>that integration to talk >>about, and >>we also know there's even more coming. So I, you know, from from my standpoint, if we really feel it and probably the best and most rewarding time we hear about that, is when we bring new things into market, we hear that back. And when Power Store came into the market and over the past few right kind of first months in market, one of the most resounding feedback that has come out as one of the most differentiated parts is that it? It's so incredibly integrated with VM ware. But we've even gotten questions from analysts asking, you know, did you purposely make it feel like you are really working similarly to a B M or environment? And you know what? That just shows how closely we have been working as organizations is that it comes a very seamless experience for our customers. >>Lee Final Word. >>What >>should people walk away with this year on the relationship between Be and we're in Dell Technologies? >>Well, I think the best partnerships right are ones that are customer driven. And what you're finding here is customers. They're actually encouraging us, right? We're doing a lot of three way meetings now, right where customers like, Hey, tell me how you're going to go involved this. How do I How do I basically modernized right and preserve my existing investment, perhaps Or, you know, update here, Or how do I grow like customers have really complex individual situations. And what you confined right is that we're helping jointly not, you know, just simply with the engineering side, which is awesome, but also with the idea that we're helping customers go on deploy responsibly in a time where it's very difficult to plan. And so if you come to us, we can help you jointly plan for the future in uncertain times and make sure that you're gonna be successful. And that's just a great feeling when you're a customer looking at, How do you deploy going forward in this? You know, with the amount of pace of change that we've got, >>I want to congratulate. Both of you have been following you guys. Success has been proven out on the business results and also the products and the enablement that you guys are providing customers been great. Thanks for coming on. Great to see both of you have a great event. Thanks for. Come on. >>Thank you. It's a pleasure. >>Okay, I'm John for your here with the Cube. Covering Del Technology Worlds Digital experience 2020 The Cube Virtual. >>Thanks for watching.

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Deal Technologies, World twenty nineteen. I'm stupid and my co host Dave Volante. Two sets, three days wall to wall coverage. Everything going on in Del Technologies really happen? A. Welcome back to the program. Same grow Cotton. Who's the senior vice president of product marketing at Delhi Emcee Sam so much that >> I am psyched to be here. I'm so excited. >> So you know you know, David, I will talk. You know, we come to these shows and back in the M C World days. It was like, Okay, let's walk through this massive portfolio and all the different areas. Last year we talked. There's a lot of simplification going on on DH Boy. This year it felt like, you know, massive infusion of cloud and talked to a lot of your team about how what's really happening now. It's not cloud walking. We're well past that. You know, Emcee and Dell both, you know, road through a lot of that today. But, you know, take us inside the keynote, putting these things together, and it's still quite a massive portfolio. >> It is, it is, and I get the honor of being the kind of the marketing front for the entire Delhi in C portfolio. So whether it's stored server networking, data protection and now hyper convert conversion now cloud our newest member of kind of the family, so to speak, Um, I get the opportunity kind of represent that which the earlier point creates a challenge as well, because it's such a broad portfolio of technology. So any time we get the opportunity to come. Teo Adult Technologies World of'em world rather a big event. We want to make sure we we shined the brightest light on the products that air >> both >> new and innovative, as walls continue to grow at a high rate. >> Alright, So Sam challenge. I wonder if I'm seeing a little bit of trend in there. So year ago, power Max was unveiled. We talk to the data protection team. It's power. Protect the the networking stuff got re branded with power and they've got the shirt with the lift switch power switch on there. So, you know, am I sensing a trend? Here is the When we simplify the portfolio. Power is the brand that lives up there. Are you the father of power? >> I am. To some degree. Yes, it was. It was kind of the genesis of an idea that we built on the original power edge brand which predate predated my arrival here. But we do. Look, we look, we look at the portfolio from a strategic lens and we're looking at the various different solutions we have across all the storage high end, mid range on structured as to the server product lines. Now, we powered up the data protection with power. Protect your point. Power switch is now on. So we turned. That went on, and we will continue to power up the rest of portfolio. So you're definitely on to something. There is a trend here, multiple points on that trend line. And I think you should be excited to know there's a lot more to come there too. >> So what? People talk about large portfolios. There was talk about integration and sort of threads across the architecture that maybe brings them together from a marketing standpoint and messaging standpoint. What are some of those threads that you're weaving through the portfolio, >> right? So one of the unique opportunities we have with such a broad portfolios, we want to make sure we have very strong, hard hitting product messaging. So of course, you've got the typical storage and data protection server messaging that talk about the he customer dynamics and trends that are going on at the individual product level. Now, what's what's newer this year and what you'LL start to see? More of us. We go for it is right now taking that product approach now, going vertical with that, talking about solutions and workloads and applications. So the big opportunity we have. And you saw that with the introduction of Del Technology Cloud as well as the Del Technologies Unified workspace, because we're now telling a broader solution story that includes, frankly, many products within delancy and many products across the broader del technology family that provide more of a business outcome solution, outcome discussion for our customers, complimenting the strong kind of individual piece part discussions which we have >> you and Sam, you know, we've looked at some of those solutions for a number of years, you know, VM wear and pivotal, and the storage products have been put together for a lot. Something I saw more than ever is you know, they're they're baked together. If you know VCF on top of it, the whole SPDC snack, you know, big day. One key note was a lot about the talk of, you know the better. Together as the pieces gives a little bit of insight, as you know how closely you know Del and the other logo's on the banner are working together. >> Yeah, if you think about over the last few years, Better together has been a big focus of ours is, especially as we've come together as one large company. But I would say we lived in the same neighborhood, you know. Now we live in the same house and and it's it's about how do we have the best integration between one product line or one room of the house with our neighboring room of the house for another product line? And you've seen that most recently with VX rail with the V C and technology and the delicacy of a structure. But now you're seeing it even broader than that. Del Technology Cloud is my favorite one to talk about, of course, and that is that bringing together the VM where Cloud Foundation suite of software This amazing set of software combined with this market leading segment leading delicacy infrastructure to provide that end and Turkey on premise Hybrid cloud which now could goto azure or Amazon >> Dave gives a whole another meaning to the noisy neighbor problem like >> All right, I'm gonna ask you So when you were >> living, it's a fun house. It's a very fun house. >> So when you were with Isil on, you had a relationship obviously with GM, where you got the S d. K. And you would do it then because you get acquired by CMC. VM wears sort of a sister company. Um law. Oftentimes the emcee would argue, Well, our integration is better than net APS or whoever else is. And, you know, maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't fine compete. But today there seems to be a conscious effort to really drive integration across the portfolio using VM. Where is the linchpin? I wonder if you could talk about that in terms of the strategy and what it means in terms of product marketing. >> Yeah, so it really depends on the case or work loader solution. Certainly in the cloud, I think, Dave, you're dead. On the VM are Virtual Cloud Foundation suite is the linchpin is the operating hub for our hybrid crowd saggy sitting on top of our infrastructure? So So that is absolutely the case. But if you look at other solutions there, maybe there's another member of this extended family that should be the point, or should be the lead of of kind of charge into a specific work. Hillary's case. We'LL evaluate those on a case by case basis. I think the important thing, though, is the strategy stops start from the top with Patton Jeff really working with both of'Em were and l N c teams. It is super clear the prioritization, the focus in the alignment to go build these combined solutions Together, we may not have had that alignment in the past, So if you look back historically, way probably didn't execute a CZ well or as fast as we wanted were now operating in absolute alignment and synchronization on the strategy, which makes it really easy for the teams to operate. Whether it's a marketing team, an engineering team, a services team, we're absolutely in locks >> up fascinated by this. Why? What's changed? What is it that Dell has brought to this culture that has enabled that catalyzed that? >> I think, you know, starting at the top with Michael, but certainly patent. Jeff spent the time, I think, Jeff, over a year and a half ago, they sat down and said, Here are key strategic tenants. Here's what we need to go do as better Together, we think we can move faster in the market. We aligned on those priorities, and we execute on those every single day. So I think that day one alignment has really helped to make the change >> very, very quick. Sounds >> so simple. But if if the assumptions that they make it the top don't pan out, then you have to pivot and you see it all the time in the tech business. All right, We're going to take that hill. Okay, Right. Way took that hill, but nobody's buying that hill. So now we got to go over here and we gotta Is Johnston shifting? Yeah. So is that the secret sauce? At least part of it is that they got it right early on. Fast course correction. >> Yeah, So I think the hero example that we've had the most run time with is the VX rail, which I definitely think we've hit a grand slam right with that one. Now we're trying to replicate that. Any more complex solution is something that's not just in an appliance. It's more broader. It's more strategic. You're now extending into, uh, partners like public cloud players, so it's much more. It's very, very important to have a plan have a strategy aligned to that execute. But by no means are we heads down and just going to take the hill if if the environment changes if the facts change. Jeff Pat the extended teams we constantly reevaluate and way were nimble and agile. We'LL shift if we have to. >> So, Sam, we've spent a lot of time digging in with the storage team here. I went through three Expo Hall, lots of gear you can touch, let two demos you can do. There's some people you know, went to the keynote, and they're like, Oh my gosh, this is not M c world. There's not that much storage. It kind of got glossed over when you talk about cloud and converged in all these things, they're talking about how you balance that internally and from out from a messaging standpoint, you know, Where is the message in the state of storage? You know, today in twenty nineteen? >> Yes. Oh, So yesterday we really focused on the Del technology solutions. Don't that cloud they'LL take unified workspace. Today's Kino we really pivoted back to the infrastructure conversation. This is where you saw the new enhancements with the unity x t. The ice salon continued to advance data protection with the new power protect announcements. So I would say day to probably felt more familiar for the traditional end SeaWorld teams. We had great demos showcasing The new capabilities were able tio have great customer examples how they're taking advantage of these capabilities. But with a portfolio so broad at Delta at the Del technologies level, never mind the deli in sea level, you have to pick and choose. And how you message to your customers, your partners to all of you. Of course. Well, so what? We're trying to kind of a line a solution story that's then complimented by great best of breed individual piece parts. And I think he saw that balance over day one and Day two today. How >> do >> you measure your success from A from a marketing standpoint? I mean, is it just revenue? I mean that, obviously one, but it's removed. But I mean, what other metrics do you use to sort of inform your strategy? >> Yes. Oh, again, I I had the pleasure of working both for Jeff Clark and Ellison do so. I actually have two bosses, which is a lot of fun, at times, literally. Seriously. Report dual report to both them. And what's great about that is there is no air gap between the marketing accountability, the marketing goals and objectives with the business within De Liam Si eso look, the ultimate factor that we look at in additional revenue, its market share. Are we competing in the markets that we select to compete in? And are we taking share? We've had a great last day, uh, great run over last year and a half on that front. So that goal is the same goal that we drive within marketing. Yes, there's things like share, voice and pipeline. You know, traditional marketing factors that we count within marketing to evaluate how things are working but were absolutely focused on the on ly goal. No legal that matters is hitting the plan hidden in the revenue growth and taking chair from our >> competitive. And so the cheese market share, I presume. Use I d see data as least in part. Maybe, maybe garden data. It's a combination of Yes. Okay, how's the market data? Because markets so huge we heard today with Pat Kelsey was talking today about two trillion dollar market, you know, And I say to myself, Well, how do you even measure? You know, the various segments in such a big market where there's been such consolidation, But what have you found in terms of the consistency and the accuracy, the data in terms of how it's translated to mean? Ultimately you can you can tell by your revenue growth, comparing it to others, revenue growth. So there's that measure, but is it pretty much stable and you're able tto? Is >> it reasonably predictable? You know, I won't get into the specifics, but we have a very detailed process on how we measure our success or not way Do use various resource is in terms of I. D. C and others to kind of measure in judge how the market's going. I would say it's an input. It's not the exact science that we would certainly certainly follow, but to your earlier discussion on Do things change? Obviously, market predictions, if I ever tell you three years from now with the market, is you know I would be a genius and Nostra Thomas and I would be predicting a lot of other things. It changes constantly. What we do know is the overall market is growing very quickly. It's in an unpredictable state of growth because of the amount of data that is growing. We think from a deli in C infrastructure standpoint, there is going to require a lot more infrastructure. So we feel very good about where the market is going in our role within this data era that we talked about today. But whether it's us or the market predictors, everybody is constantly adjusting because you just don't know >> what you have. Other sources you have obviously the channel you have. You you talk to customers. I mean, okay, Tom suite was selling us. That, I think is I. D. C. Was saying that it is going to grow it spendings and go to ex uh GDP, which I'm intrigued by on I believe it. I just Historically, it's such a big market. It's been aligned with GDP, but it does feel like it's it's accelerating faster. >> Look at the gross. I mean, look at that. The tech trends five g The emergence of the eye ot Internet of things at the edge Thie advancements within the modernizing of infrastructure. The move Teo hyper converge these new cloud solutions as we look to provide a non Prem cloud. You look at the public, Claude vendors are now have taken notice and said, Hey, you know what? It's not all one way or the other way. We've got to get into that game as well. So you're seeing a tremendous amount of growth, a tremendous amount of opportunity. At the end of the day, how are we helping our customers digitally transform is our goal in our mission, and I think we've got a great track record doing that in the >> world. Nothing in your size, a little bit of growth. There's a lot of >> cash, Sam, I don't want to give you the final word. You talk about the digital transformation. Give us a little bit of insight to the customers you're talking about. Where they are in their journeys has come the biggest challenges and opportunities that they're facing today. >> Look, we've been talking about digital digital transformation for a few years now. I would say we're still in the early innings. You certainly have a lot more customers that are taking advantage of digital transformation in typically lines of business, but not necessarily wholesale transformation. So I would say we're seeing a lot more customers seeing a lot more success in line of business conversion to digitally transform. But the next wave a transformation is hold hold, wholesale business transformation. You got a few highlights here and there. But for companies that are not born in this world that are more of a traditional business, it's the early early innings. So I think it's crazy, tremendous opportunity for everyone. Alright, >> well, Sam, first off, congratulations. We know it's not just the event, but all the different pieces that come through take more than a year for all these pieces together. So congratulations so >> much that they love the partnership. Looking forward to seeing you guys at the next big event. >> All right, for David, Dante, I'm Stew Minutemen. Be back with more coverage here from Del Technologies, World twenty nineteen in Las Vegas. Thank you for watching the cue.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Sands! We continue here live on theCUBE, our coverage here of Dell Technologies World 2018. 14,000 attendees wrapping up day 3. We are live as I said with Stu Miniman. I'm John Walls, and it is now our pleasure to welcome to the set Steve Fingerhut, who is the SVP and GM of SSD and Cloud Software Business Units at Toshiba Memory Americas. Steve, good to see you, sir. >> Great to be here. >> And Ravi Pendekanti, who is the SVP of Server Solutions Product Management and Marketing at Dell. >> Thank you, John. >> Ravi, good to see you, sir. >> Same here, sir. >> Yeah, let's talk about, first off, show theme. Make it real, right? Digital transformation, but make it real. >> Ravi: Yup. >> So, what does it mean to the two of you? We've heard that theme over and over again, and what do you think that means to your customers as well? How do you make it real for them? >> First and foremost, I think the whole idea of new workloads come in play. People talk about machine learning and deep learning as you, I'm sure, are aware of. People talk about analytics. The fact is, each of us is collecting a lot more data than a year ago. Which is good for my friend Steve and others, and obviously, we like the fact that customers are looking at making more real-time, if not near real-time, analysis. And the whole notion of governmental agencies across the world trying to go into more of a digital world where if you look at a country like India, for example, I mean, they have a billion people who are looking at other cards where they didn't have a form of identification for each individuals. Now if they're gone through a new transformation phase where they want to ensure that every single one of them actually has a way of identification, and it's all done digitally with accounts and everything else that goes on, this is just some of the manifestations of the digital transformation we see, whether it is in your industries, pick your favorite one, whether it's financial sector, the manufacturing, health care, all the way to governmental agencies. I think each of them are looking at how do they look at providing rights out of services. Either for their customers or their communities at large, and, you know, we can't be more excited about what this provides an opportunity for us to go back and provide a way for them to communicate and do some cool takes. >> Steve? >> Yeah, Ravi, you mentioned the workloads that are driving the new campaign or that you're highlighting in the new campaign Make It Real, and, many of those workloads are, they're new architectures, and they were basically built from day one on SSDs, right? Counting on that performance, reliability, etc. And so obviously, that's what we're here to promote at the show. And you can see the new workloads, obviously anything Cloud very much counts on SSDs and Flash. And then as you get into machine learning, different types of artificial intelligence, those are certainly counting on the performance of SSDs. And keep nothing more real than actual products in hands so with Ravi's products and ours, we have a number of demo's, including the new AMD platforms that the Power Edge team is rolling out, running all of these new workloads on Toshiba SSDs. So it's a good way to make it real. >> Yeah, Steve, maybe bring us in a little bit kind of the state of storage, though. We have talked about SSDs, and we're now a decent way into it. Dell's announcement talking a lot about NVMe. Maybe give us the Toshiba viewpoint on memory and storage and some of those transitions we're going through. >> Right, well, I guess the secret's out that SSDs are a great addition. Right? You take pretty much any environment, and you add SSDs, and it will go faster. So it's pretty much the biggest bang for the buck in terms of incremental performance. So what that means is just tremendous growth. And the last couple years have been, really for the industry, keeping up with that really increased demand. So there's inherent efficiencies in the SSDs. We're trying to build as many as we can, and then obviously trying to help our customers use them in the most efficient ways possible. >> Yeah, I agree with Steve. I mean, it is an efficiency equation. The fact of the matter is, you really do need to provide customers with a better way of ensuring that timely information is made available. Again, it's information, and it has to be timely. Because if you really don't provide it at a time when our customers need it, there's really no advantage of being really, having right infrastructure, right? Or lack of it, for that matter. Case in point, if you look at what we just announced, Stu. Yesterday, we had talked about the R840, for example, which is a 4-socket server. And we actually announced it with 44 NVMe drives, believe it or not. That's about two times more than the nearest competitor that just gives you an idea into the amount of data that customers are consuming on the applications, obviously. And more importantly, when we were coming up with this notion, we felt that 12 was probably a good number. Maybe 24 was going to be a stretch. And the number of customers we have talked to even in the last two days, I mean it's been huge. We're hearing them saying, "Wow, we can't wait "to go get this product in our hands." Because that really shows you that there is already a pretty big demand for these kinds of technologies to be brought in. >> Yeah, I like what you were saying there, Ravi, because I'd like both of you to help connect the dots for us a little bit. 'Cause when I think back to, okay, what speed disc did I have? Or was the flash piece in? This was something that, it was traditionally the server admin. Maybe there was some application person that came in. But you're talking about C-level discussions here. The trends that Jeff Clark talked about in his keynote as to, you know, this is what the business is driving things, like AINML and some of those. Steve, how are the conversations changing to get this piece of the infrastructure up at more of the C-level discussion? >> Right, it certainly is part of the transformation where it's been talked about several times this week. IT has moved from being a cost center to the revenue center and then that puts it on the CEO's radar much more squarely. You definitely want to, if you're the CIO, CTO, infrastructure leader, your goal is to try to deliver that agility, right? Don't stand in the way of revenue, while managing security, managing cost. And it's those dynamics and, you know, it's not a new conversation, but it's the public versus private hybrid. What exactly should go where? And those are still top-of-mind for all the customers we're talking to. >> Actually, Steve hit on something else, if I may, which is about security. And I can't tell you, Stu, a good 70% of the customers on average today, do not finish a conversation in the 30-minute chunks we have had without talking about what is it you guys are going to do for security. And that's a huge number or an increase from where we were just even a year or two ago. And imagine having said that, if you really had a longer conversation, security obviously is one of those fundamental pillars that everybody comes down to. Because everybody's worried about data, and the fact that there's leakage of information, if I may, pertaining to this. And more importantly, you know, making it real, if I may, to your point earlier on, Jon, as well. Which is, customers don't want to look at just the buzz words. They're now asking for proof points. Proof points on, "Hey, what does this really mean "in terms of security?" For example, when we talk about zero arrays or, you know, secure arrays, sorry, which is, how do you go retire an old data server or a box without necessarily worrying about the bits and bytes being left on the disc drives? So we have come up with new technologies which enables all the drives to be wiped. Makes it a lot easier, of course, with some of the stuff we do with Toshiba, and some of their technologies as well. But my point, again, being that I think now, our C-level execs are coming in asking us for, not just the major teams, but they're actually more interested in finding out how and what is it we're doing to help some of those major teams. And I think the number of requests we have had for some of the white papers we have come out with, Steve, I think has only grown up now. >> Absolutely. >> Which, I don't think was happening in the past from the C-level execs. So it's absolutely a valid statement. >> Yeah, well, there were Senate hearings last year and some pretty famous data breaches, and you have senators grilling CEO's, and it was shocking. They actually used, there was a senator who used the term, full disc encryption, and taking a CEO to task for not using full disc encryption and so I think that might help, talking about getting on the C-level radar. That helps. >> That was good staff work there. >> Exactly, exactly. That was a good plant. >> Yeah, right. But to the point of security. Obviously with this exponential growth of data, unstructured, blowing up, and then all of a sudden, you become a lot riper, if you will, and you've got a lot more to manage. And so with that, how much more at risk are people, and is that what's raising the awareness now in the C-sweep? Is they realize that they're a much bigger target now than maybe when data wasn't as plentiful you know, back in the old days, if you will. Is that part of this? Or is that it? >> I believe that's a big part of it. And, one of the other things that's obviously going with this is, if you really look at the disclosures that any of us have to go through, even in terms of whether it's a simple credit card you're looking at. I don't know if you've ever seen those. As we were doing some of the analysis, we noticed. You want a simple credit card application, we'd had some security, and, you know, personal information clauses is actually garnered by about 120% in terms of the number of things they ask for. And making sure that the consumer is aware as well. Right? I don't think that happened before. And the fact of the matter is, I don't think there's a single day that we can go through any of the trade press without somebody coming out with a security breach maybe, or a security feature, whether it's hardware or software. And I think there's a whole security encryption device or drives, I think there's a huge demand for that as well, right? >> Absolutely. And you talk about the data growth. It's obviously been phenomenal. In his keynote Monday, Michael Dell talked about the data growth from machine to machine, and it's going to make this look like a little bit of data. So like you said, just that risk, the exposure is much larger, and you have to keep that data secure. So as Ravi mentioned, we work closely with Dell. There's a lot of, it's not an easy problem to solve, right? So there's a lot of engineering to make sure that you have that end-to-end security, and that's why we work with things like the instant system erase, right? So you can, one button, erase the system in minutes, versus in the past, it might take hours and days. And do you really trust that it's gone? Those types of things, so I think that those are enabling a much more robust security, and you basically have to make it easy, right? >> Letting people sleep at night. >> Exactly. >> That's what you're doing. >> It's interesting. In the past, the only way you could do that was you had to write a series of 0's and 1's on their driver. And that would take, you know, hours together. That's how you would erase your data, right? I love when you talk about autonomous vehicles. Imagine there's a whole big, a whole discussion as much as how do you make sure that you have the, that's kind of an edge computing as Jeff, I think, mentioned on stage yesterday. That you want to not have latency come in between making a deterministic turn, right? Or an object appears. You don't want to wait for the breaking system to play because some decision needs to be made in a remote center. Right? Which essentially means now you have got data being collected and analyzed and acted upon. And there are things like that, and you've probably heard of all the insurance companies are working on, you know, what kind of data can we collect it, because when crashes happen, right? How do you make sure that, you know, there are privacy laws in place and what-not, who has access to it, plenty of stuff. >> John: Sure. >> Steve, want to get your viewpoint. We're getting not far from the end of the show. Why don't you give, in general, the partner viewpoint of Dell technology's world in, specifically Toshiba. I know you've got, there's the booze, there's the party, there's demos, there's labs, so a lot of activity your team's doing, for those that haven't been here. And, you know, Toshiba's worked with both Legacy Dell, Legacy MC. Any commentary to close on that coming together? >> Right. I think last year, I used the Jordan/Pippen analogy, but it's only gotten better since then. So it's a great partnership. We're definitely growing strong together, and like you said, that doesn't happen overnight. That's years of hard work and trust that makes that a possibility. But I truly believe we're only getting started. And you know, one of our goals we're working together is how do we make these important capabilities like security more common, more accessible, lower cost, those types of things. So that's a major factor, major focus area for us going forward. But definitely see this is just the beginning. >> Any key highlight from the show or activities that your team's been doing here that you'd like to leave us with? >> Sure. Yeah, we have a significant presence here. We have eight server demos running. I mentioned the AMD servers, multiple workloads across these new emerging workloads. And then the hands-on demo zone. Where actually, the developers can use the systems and software they want to evaluate. They can use them in the Cloud. Those are all being driven by Toshiba, and of course, as part of the Dell Solution. Yeah, we're happy. Honored to be a big part of the show this year. >> Jordan/Pippen, I was thinking more like Curry/Durant. That's where I was going with that. >> Exactly. That might be a little more up-to-date, right? >> I'm good with Jordan. No, he wasn't bad. Pretty good pair like you two are. Thanks for joining us both. We appreciate it, Ravi, Steve. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good seeing you here. Back with more of a continue, our live coverage here on theCUBE where Dell Technologies World 2018, and we are in Las Vegas.

>> Narrator: From the SiliconANGLE Media Office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here are your hosts, Dave Vellante, and Stu Miniman. >> For several years now, the analysts at WikiBound have been talking about taking the cloud, the public cloud, operating model, and bringing it to your data, wherever that data lives. Hey everybody, this is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, Stu Miniman. Welcome to HCI: A Foundation For IT Transformation. We're here with Chad Dunn, who's the Vice President of Product Management and Marketing, at Dell EMC. Chad, good to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, glad to be here, good to spend time with you guys. >> So, we talk a lot about, you know, VxRail, speaking of foundations. Give us a quick update. What is it, and what's new with VxRail? >> Okay, well big news in VxRail land, right, we just completed our transition under the 14th generation of Dell Power Edge servers, so this gives us a substantially more powerful platform, a substantially more predictable performance, and a lot more configuration options that make it fit a lot of different workloads that our customers have, so it really makes it prime time for HCI. >> So, where is the power and performance come from? Is that predominantly, kind of, new compute? >> That's a big piece of it. Some of that is software as well, right? vSAN underlies VxRail as a software defined storage layer, and we've seen pretty amazing increases in performance, just from software, from our 13G, to our 14G transition, but when we look at that performance now, on 14G servers, with the Intel Skylake chipset, we're seeing 2x performance over the last generation, and we're seeing latencies that are very, very low. And that has to do with, more and faster memory channels, more threads, overall faster processors, so really off the hook, in terms of the performance that we're seeing. >> Chad, when we look at HCI, it's really about the software layer, often, it gets overlooked, you know, what actually has to happen between the software and that underlying hardware? Are there optimizations, does it matter if I'm using the software, you know, what's optimized for that next generation Intel chip? >> Yeah, it's all about the software, or so our software vendor would say, but we know that when you're treating something as a system, you need that hardware and that software to work together, in perfect unison, as a system, and, you know, we've done a lot in this generation, working with the PowerEdge team to make sure that we have the right hardware, hooks, and design points that are focused on HCI. That goes from things like the devices that we use to boot up, and where we would execute the hypervisor kernel, to network connectivity, and really importantly, to the inband channels that we use to update all of the little pieces of firmware that operate the hardware inside the system, right? You need to be able to treat those as a system, update, lifecycle manage those, all in context of one another, so having direct and deep, meaningful access into that hardware is critically important when you're operating a system like this. >> When we've looked at, kind of, our cloud strategy, in general, it's about the data. We talk about data, it's things like predictability and latency, it's about, kind of, the power of the underlying thing, maybe, give us a little bit more specifics, as to what you're getting in this generation. >> So, the big difference here, above and beyond the performance, which is about 2x what we saw from the last generation, if we look at the same hardware, the same software, running on the two different pieces of hardware, about 100% better. But that's really just part of the story. It's the predictability of latency that's critically important. If you're going to migrate Tier 1 workloads under this infrastructure, you need to ensure that other workloads are not going to disturb that performance. So when we look at this, we look at how the IOs per second increases, and we look at the overall latency. How long does that latency line stay flat, right? So when we look at this generation, we see over 2x the IOPS, but the horizontal line where we look at the response time in latency, it stays flat nine times longer in this generation than in the last. So if you've got that sub-millisecond response time, even at very high IOPS, you can put a lot of different workloads on that same infrastructure, and still get predictable performance. >> I think, the other thing that people don't understand, is that, oh, HCI, it's just like, it's that little LEGO block you build, but it's not just one LEGO block, what have you seen from customers, what's kind of, the portfolio, what are the decisions that they have to make, to kind of, pick the right configuration? >> Sure, so yeah, when you're a kid and you get your first LEGO set, you get a lot of pretty generalized blocks, they're all, you know, square and some are rectangle, but not a lot of variability. When you get up into the big leagues of the LEGO Star Wars set, right, you've got a lot of specialized parts, and you can do really advanced, really cool things. That's really where we're at with HCI right now. If you want to really tune the infrastructure for the workloads that you have, you need a lot of variability in the processors you choose, the amount of memory, the speed of memory, and even the storage. It could be hybrid, some people still choose hybrid HDDs, but even within flash, people will choose SAS or SATA drives depending on the performance and cost benefits that they want to realize. So being able to scale up and down the processors, the memory, different types of storage, is critically important, so you can fit it into those different workloads. Also, a lot more people use this for VDI, and for high end imaging. So the ability to pack these things full of graphical processing units, and still be able to power and cool the things, is critically important. We have a lot of applications in those verticals where there's video processing and these are required. So, we don't just have one model of VxRail, we've got a number of different VxRail models, all of which can scale up, and then of course, HCI can intrinsically scale out. So that lets you really fine-tune it and get to that expert level, in terms of your LEGO building blocks. >> So Chad, a minute ago, you mentioned workloads. So as you're bringing this sort of 14th generation server technology to VxRail, how has it affected workloads, what are you seeing is the sweet spot for workloads? >> So if I were to think back a year, the question that every customer would ask, is how do I know which workload is right for HCI? And a lot of times they even lack the vocabulary and taxonomy to say, okay, that fits, that doesn't fit. What's happened in the meantime though, are the software's gotten so much better, the hardware's gotten so much faster and more predictable, that the question is, well, what workloads are not right for HCI yet? And there are very few that aren't. So, we've seen people generally start off with one workload, right? Maybe it's VDI, maybe it's a database, and then they start to move other, as they get comfortable with it, they move other workloads over to it. Obviously, we've got a big install block, or install base of VxBlock, and Vblock. We see a lot of those customers start to migrate workloads from there onto a layer of HCI. And more and more, those are becoming Tier One workloads. Crate & Barrel is a great example, a great customer of ours. They're moving their point of sale systems onto VxRail. Now for a retailer, your point of sale system, that's about as mission critical as you can possibly get, so they and others now have the confidence to start to move these things over. The only outliers that we see are some of these very big data applications that are hugely write intensive, and we actually usually end up selling a layer of hyper-converge with our Isilon arrays, to store that data, and then put a layer of hyper-converge compute around it, because in some ways, hyper-converged is just a better way to server, if you know what I mean. >> Wondering if you can talk about the business impact, what a customer's seeing, how are they quantifying the value of these systems, share some stories, or color there. >> Sure, it's all about operational expense savings, right? How much more efficiently am I going to be able to operate this infrastructure? It's not so much about capital acquisition costs. So when you look at the typical operational expense savings, and that comes from us doing all the lifecycle management of the hardware, of the software, of the cluster as a system, you see those costs go down. Really good example, is First Credit of British Columbia. Another one of our good customers. Now, they've deployed this, they've seen 30% OPEX savings and they've seen 50% power and space savings. You get a smaller package because you don't have separate storage array, separate servers, but, you also have really, one function that needs to operate your environment and that's the virtual administrator. He or she is the one that really operates everything, you don't have separate storage, separate compute, separate virtualization teams that have to look after the infrastructure. So, that first run is very easy, very fast to deploy, but it's day two through 700 and day 900 where you see that recurring operational expense saving where it really pays off for customers, all the updates and updates and life cycle management. >> Yeah, so Chad you talk about the success and all the customers. What about the customers that haven't looked at kind of the HCI space yet? What are they missing? You know, what do you say to those customers that maybe, you know, aren't sure if the waters right to jump in yet? >> So there's really three ways that you're going to encounter a customer who's going to consider HCI. You're either going to refresh a server, you know, your servers are up for maintenance and you're going to take a look at HCI as the next step in your evolution of your compute strategy. Or you're going to refresh your storage, and you're going to look at hyperconvergence as the next step in the evolution of your storage strategy. Or you've got that one workload that's probably net new and it's going to be, sort of, an isolated case and they need an infrastructure and they need to stand if up fast. That third case is really the one that drove the initial adoption of HCI, I can't tell you how many of our customers started with VDI. I mean, it's so cliched now to talk about VDI as killer app for HCI, but that's how so many people started. Because it's, you know, a very bound, isolated infrastructure and from there they get comfortable with it and they start to bring other workloads onto it. So, if you're thinking about refreshing your servers and if you're thinking about refreshing storage, it's time to kick the tires onto HCI. If you've got a workload that you need to stand up quickly and you don't know how big it's going to be, you know, one, two, three years down the road. It's another opportunity to look at HCI. Because you can start with a very small infrastructure, but you can grow it to a very very large one. >> What if we could talk a little bit about digital transformation, I mean, everybody's talking about digital transformation, and to us, digital transformation is all about how you leverage data and the edges exploding. We've envisioned sort of a three tier data model. You've got the edge, you've got maybe an aggregation point and you bring it back to the cloud. And that cloud can be a public cloud or it can be on-prem. So you've got to have some kind of cloud infrastructure to manage all this data. So where does this fit in the context of transformations and why does hardware matter? >> Yep, well let's go from the end and work back to the beginning. Hardware matters because of form factor, for one. As you start to push compute out to the edge, right, you want form factors that are small, don't consume a lot of power but, you know, still have a lot of processing power and can manipulate that data. Right, the whole internet of things phenomenon that is, creating all this data out at the edge, you know, presents us with a conundrum right? The data itself is not that valuable, the insights that we get from the data are immensely valuable. Bringing all that data back to the core to do something with is not cost effective. So, it's how do we turn the data at the edge into information and then how do we funnel that valuable information back to the core and leave the unvaluable data out where it is. hyper-converge fits really well there because you can have, you know, devices of very small form factors that are very quick to deploy, very easy to manage remotely. At the aggregation point you can have, simply, larger versions of the same thing or more of the same thing. And then finally at the core you can have very large clusters of hyperconverged appliances, like VxRail, to do your processing. Now the key is from an operational perspective you've still got a single pane of glass that manages everything. Right, it's still the same set of tools, it's still the same hardware and software lifecycle management process that happens out at the edge, at the aggregation point and at the core. So again, it comes back to the operational expense of making decisions closer to the data and then managing everything with a consistent set of tools. >> So I wondered if we could also talk about the competition and when Stu and I think about competition in this sphere we look at, first of all this all sort of software defined, everything can moved into software defined. So we see two vectors, one is head to head competition with other software defined suppliers, and the second big competitor is, hey, I'm just going to roll on my own. >> Chad Dunn: Right >> So let's start with the former, why Delium C vs vendor A, B, C or D? >> Sure, sure it really gets down to what your goal is as a customer and we obviously have multiple options within our own portfolio and those perfectly, you know, find solutions for a lot of people. But, you know, number one if you're a VMware user and you want to optimize around the VMware user experience, then VxRail is the way to go. Because we do co-engineer this with Vmware, it's not just a regular partnership, we have engineers and marketing people and product managers at Vmware that functionally role up to our team and so we do behave as one engineering and one product management organization to really optimize the user experience for VMware. Secondly, architecturally from a VCM perspective, this is a service that's baked into the kernal of vSphere. So, in terms of performance and the overhead that it creates on CPU, memory, et cetera. This is the best game in town. We can do more IO more predictably with flatter latency than really any other solution that's on the market in the HCI space. Every other one takes a virtual storage appliance approach where they have something running on top of the hypervisor. >> Dave Vellante: Right. >> The very long and circuitous data path, we'll performance test against solutions like that all day long, every day, that doesn't worry us at all. So, if you're a vSphere customer, VMware customer it's the most obvious choice and from a performance perspective you're not giving up anything right? We don't want users to have to sacrifice the storage functionality, the performance, the compute functionality. Just because it's hyper-converge and you scale out doesn't mean you can compromise on any to those axis. >> Okay, what about the guys who like to change their own oil in the car and the spark plugs and tune it up and they want to roll on their own. >> (laughs) It's been a long time since I've been able to work on my own car. So I encounter these kind of customers all the time. It's the build your own crowd and it's what they've been doing for a long time. And it's great, alright, I build my own computers at home and I have my own ESX server that I put together. I can't afford a VxRail. (laughing) There's no employee discount. So I'll tell you a story that will hopefully make sense, my first job when I got into this business, I went to Boston College, my first job and work study was to keep a spreadsheet that had all the MAC addresses and all the IP addresses for every host on the BC network and keep those in sync. >> You're really good at that I bet. >> I was excellent at that. That is not a skill set that is in demand right now. Or really even at that time. But when you think about what it means to take a software defined storage product like VMware vSAN and take an x86 server and put those together. Yes, you're getting to the same destination of running vSphere on a host with software defined storage. You're missing the systemness, right? We go to a lot of trouble to make sure we're managing all of things things in the context of the cluster level. All of the little pieces of firmware, and they're roughly 12 or so pieces of firmware that we have to take care of. From the BIOS to the drive controller firmware, the drives, the boss card, which is our boot media, the iDRAC firmware, the backplane, power supplies. In legacy EMC we spent 30 years building arrays. We had all those same challenges with all the different pieces of firmware and software that all had to function as a system, we did that. And we guaranteed that it would live up to 5/9ths of availability for the customer. That's exactly what we do when we deliver VxRail's hyperconverge. If you want to choose to build those things yourself that's fine if you have the skills and that's how you want to operate your business. The 5/9ths is now on you though. Right, because you're the one responsible for bringing all those parts together. So, yeah it's certainly a valid path for others but, the market is shifting and we see more often than not, people are moving towards a buy approach rather than build. >> You bring up a great point. I remember back in the early days before we even called it HCI, you think about vSAN, oh well is the storage admin going to buy it? Is the virtualization admin going to take that over? What's excited me about this wave is the oh, heres the cool stuff that companies are doing now that they're not spending their time keeping spreadsheets of MAC addresses. >> Chad Dunn: Yeah, yeah exactly. >> What is the kind of, you know, owner of this, look like in your environment? And any cool stories you're hearing from customers transforming their organization. >> By and large the operator is your virtual admin. The person who is at home in vCenter and vROps, you know, maybe even vRA if they're going full infrastructure as a service. That's really the user of this, and the dynamic you mention is similar to what we had with Vblock, right. Customers who went Vblock, who said, I'm going to change my operating model to a virtual administrator versus compute, storage, network. You know, customers who didn't change the operating model were not happy Vblock customers. Ones that did change the model did. And, I'll tell ya a real off script anecdote, recently I was traveling in Europe, and I started playing a game with the sales guy we were traveling with. Because in Europe, very often, they have more of an affinity to putting their logos on the sides of buildings in a lot of European cities. So, as we would go to these different cities and we went from Stockholm all the way down to Rome, to Switzerland, to Amsterdam. You know, we're just spotting VxRail customers, right, whose going to spot the most. And the one really interesting one is we checked into a hotel, you know, late night in Switzerland. Next morning we meet for breakfast and he goes, "Did you spot the rail customer?" I said "Who was it?" We went into the bathroom and they have these, you know, squeeze bottles that have the soap in the shower and it's a cosmetics company and they're located in Germany. And they do, obviously, a ton of business all over Europe, and they had outsourced a lot of their IT because, you know, their core competency is not IT, it's cosmetics. And they now have one guy that looks after all of IT for this company rather than outsource it to two different companies to manage all this and he runs it all on VxRail. So, transformative yes, to that company very transformative. But, at a very small scale, but that pattern sort of repeats itself the higher that you scale. >> Alright we're out of time but where can people go to get more information on this and other products your HTI strategy. >> If I were them I'd go to dellemc.com/hci. >> Excellent, Chad, thanks very much, Stu appreciate you co-hosting with me and check out videos on thecube.net, this and other videos will be up there. Thanks for watching everybody, Dave Vellante for Stu Miniman we'll see you next time! (techno music)

>> From the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Prior to the historic merger between Dell and EMC, Dell had a relationship with Nutanix, a pioneer in hyper conversion infrastructure. After the merger, many people questioned whether that relationship would continue. Hi everybody, my name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with John Shirley who's the director of product management at Dell EMC, and we're here to talk about the continuation of that relationship, Hi John, good to see you. >> Good to see you as well, thanks for having me. >> You've got a new announcement today, it's the XC series, tell us all about it. >> Yeah, so the XC series, what we're announcing, this is our third generation of powered server deployments for XC series and, what we're announcing is that the two most popular models for XC series are going to be refreshed in 14th generation servers. Those specifically are XC640, which is really designed for compute intensive things like VDI, private cloud, some remote office application, as well as the XC740XD, which is more for storage intensive applications, so think share point, big data application things like that. Now all of the new platforms that we'll release will have new technologies like MVME, they'll have faster networking options like 25 gig ethernet, and a whole bunch of other features that are really going to help propel this into more mainstream applications. >> Okay, so it's not just faster, better price, performance, there's some other innovations that you mentioned in MVME that are coming in that you're integrating and engineering into the solution. >> Absolutely, so we have a really tight relationship between our Power Edge, as well as what we do on the XC series, and in addition to that, we have a really tight relationship with our Nutanix engineering counterparts as well. We're really designing these all into a single application. >> Okay, so the marketing, I'm sorry to interrupt. So the marketing gurus at Dell EMC are throwing around this term, purposeful. >> Yes. >> What does that mean? >> I love this term because it really takes into account all the additional efforts that we do around the solution, we have years and years of experience of deploying SDS solutions on top of servers, and what we really realize is that you want to design these solutions, again to be purposeful as the name implies. It's things like controlling everything, all the way from orderability to manufacturing, to serviceability to ensure that you get a really tight and clean experience with a customer. So things like CPU, memory, hard drive configuration, designed specifically for hyper converge, and that flows all the way through to support. So it's a much cleaner experience for the customer. >> So what does that mean, designed specifically for hyper converge, I mean can you unpack that a little bit? What's different about hyper converge that requires that different design? >> Yeah, well hyper converge, as you probably well know, and I'm not sure how many of the users out there know, but it was really designed around the cloud experience. So taking a look at the hyper scale vendors, and designing similar models for data centers, and really what that entails is things about taking a power edge platform, designing the technologies to be fault tolerant, to be scalable, and we've taken that to the next level. So on the XC series, we've designed some software and some Dell IP that really harnesses a lot of the capabilities of the power edge. We call it the Power Tools SDK, and it really allows for software defined solutions like Nutanix to sit on top of Power Edge. By the way, we use it for our other platforms as well within the portfolio, but it really shows that it is purposefully built and designed for SDS solutions. >> Okay, so Dell was the first to do an OEM relationship with Nutanix, and subsequently they've done maybe a couple of others, but what makes you guys special? >> Well first off, the power edge platform is the leading platform out there in the marketplace, so that alone right there gives us a lot of strength from a manufacturing, procurement, all that ecosystem. That's one of the benefits that we get. We also do things like develop our own IP around this power tools SDK, as well as other IP that we have on the platform. So that's another one right there. Collectively, within the group, we have hundreds of hours of experience, not only designing storage, but also compute around the hypervisor, and around networking, so we've brought all that expertise into the group to really design this hyperconverge platform. And that's something that no one else can really do on the marketplace. >> So in the early days of HCI, which obviously, the workloads were, VDI was a popular workload, and a lot of the knockoffs were, it's a nice infrastructure for a remote office, or small or mid sized businesses. Can you address scalability? Where are we today in terms of scale? >> On the scale, like I said it was one of the design tenets, so I'll give you a good example. If a customer has bought previous versions of XC series, whether it's the 12th generation or the 13th generation, they can now come and buy the 14th generation from us, and put that into the existing ecosystem. Right into the same cluster, and so talk about a mind shift from traditional architectures that would require essentially ripping out the old gear and putting in the new gear, now you can grow as the technology grows, and you can do that in a very seamless fashion without any downtime, and it's very scalable in a very linear sense. >> Can you talk about the portfolio a little bit? Dell EMC has one of everything, if I want it, you probably have it. >> M-hm. >> But sometimes, analysts and independent observers, customers, probably sales guys, it's confusing. So where does this fit in the portfolio, relative to some of the other things that you've announced today and have in the portfolio? >> We get that question all the time, and it's a great question. But it's a pretty clean answer for us. For customers who are standardized on VM1 and they want that experience, we have VXRL, right? Great product. For customers now who want choice of hypervisors, or if they're already standardized on Nutanix platform, then we have XC series, and we have a lot of customers out there who want to go to a model that sits on top of a power edge base because of the power of power edge, so we've got that to offer to our customers, and in particular when we talk about hypervisor choice, we know that Hyper-V is a very fast growing portion of the market, and we are focused on that part of the market for customers who want to do multiple different hypervisors. >> I wonder if I could ask you, you know when you're separate companies, and you're trying to do engineering, you make it happen. Look what you guys did with VCE. How has the experience been at the engineering level, in terms of getting higher levels of integration, now that you guys are one company? Can you talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah, so I'm going to take a step back and not just, just focus on the engineering. It's really end to end, and it goes all the way from the engineering up front, but then it trickles down to the marketing and the product managers, and all the sales teams so everything, end to end, needs to fit well together. What I'll tell you is me, personally, I talk to my product management counterparts, my sales counterparts over on the Nutanix side on a nearly daily basis, so the relationships got to be strong and we've really strengthened that over the years. >> Okay, Nutanix's got to be happy because they've got a massive distribution channel. You guys, Michael Dell was very clear on this from the early days that you guys were going to continue the relationship because that's what customers want. Can you talk about culturally your focus on customers, and EMC's always been very customer focused, Dell, Michael Dell personally was very customer focused, is that really the sort of genesis of the continuation of this relationship? Maybe you can talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah, we are maniacally focused on customers, so if you look at the new platforms that we're shipping, give you a data point. We talk to the customers and we have somewhere around 150 new design features specifically for the XC series platform because of those conversations with customers and because we've done this for three generations, we have a lot of those inputs leading into the product, and so yes we are very focused on the customers, and what we know is that the customers want to have that choice. Not all of them do, right? A lot of customers are going to go over to the Xrell, it's a great product, it's growing really quickly, but we also know that a number have really standardized again on the Hyper-V, or on the Nutanix platform. >> Well because of the size of your install space, you have a huge observation base, we like to call it, and you obviously collect a lot of data. It sounds like you've been able to leverage that for competitive advantage and to add additional value for your customers. >> Yes, it's always nice to have a product and a portfolio that can win. >> Alright so we got to wrap, so we got a crowd chat coming up on December first. First half, #NextGenHCI, it's kind of an AMA on this announcement. Where can I get additional information on this? >> So you can go to www.Dell.com/HCI. >> Excellent, well, John, thanks very much. >> Thank you. >> For coming to the Cube. Alright, thanks for watching, everybody. This is Dave Vellante, we'll see you next time. (light techno music)

>> Announcer: From the Silicon Angle Media office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Prior to the historic merger between Dell and EMC, Dell had a relationship with a company called Nutanix. Nutanix was a pioneer in so called hyperconverged infrastructure and a lot of people questioned whether that relationship would continue after the merger. Hi, everybody, I'm Dave Vellante, and I'm here with John Shirley who's the Director of Product Management at Dell EMC and we're going to talk about that. Welcome, John. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> So, the XC Series you are continuing the innovation there, tell us about what you are announcing today. >> Yeah, so this is our third generation, so this is the third generation of the XC Series and what we are announcing is that our most popular models are available now, and the most popular models are the XC640, which is more of a compute intensive node that will be targeted at VDI compute intensive remote offices, things like that. And we're also announcing the XC740XD which is more for storage intensive and performance applications. Think big data, SharePoint, exchange, those kind of things. >> Okay, so we're seeing the evolution of the workloads that can be supported by hyperconvergent infrastructure. And this is more evidence, right? >> Absolutely, and to that point, where we started off, we saw a lot of VDI deployments but now very quickly, once those companies adopt the technology, they are growing that more to mainstream. >> Okay, so I see this term, marketing gurus at Dell EMC throw around this term, purposeful. Okay, let's put some meat on the bone, what does that mean? >> I love the term because it really helps describe what we do, right. This isn't just take things like SDS offers, in this case Nutanix, throw it on some PowerEdge and validate it. Those are really core, important steps. But we go above and beyond that so purposeful really is kind of end to end view of what the solution is. So it's things all the way from configuration to manufacturing and supportability. Things like processor choices, SSD selection, memory types, you can kind of go down the list and we've really designed this purposefully for ACI market. >> Okay, so Dell, of course, was the first to do an OEM relationship with Nutanix, there are others. Can you talk about your differentiation, what's special about Dell EMC and Nutanix. >> Yes, so you know, I think if I go back to the three points that I had before. You have a server, you have SDS solutions and you do some validation around it. Very important steps. We really feel that we have the strongest server in the world and so that's point number one for us. Nutanix, great partnership there. And then the validation steps which we have a very strong engineering team to go after now. If we take that a step further, Dell has created some soft or some IP that really helps kind of glue everything together. We call it the Power Tools SDK. And that's really years worth of experience working with SDS solutions that we know how to integrate into the server and really load that software on top of it so we can do things like life cycle management, we can have recovery options, and there's a whole list of options that are available with the Power Tools SDK. So that's one of them. And the final one is we're Dell EMC and the great part about being this new company is that we have this great, great portfolio of technologies. So it's things like integration with data protection, right. Now that we have Avamar Data Domain, we have the ability to create new products. In fact, that's one of the new things that we have as well. We are announcing a new data protection solution that is taking the Avamar software and taking Data Domain and we're integrating that right into the prism interface so if you listen to Nutanix, they say one click simplicity, well we're introducing a one click back-up, one click back-up automation into the portfolio. >> I love that, because a lot of times back-up is an after thought. You know, oh I got this new infrastructure, how am I going to back up the data. Okay, let's bolt this on. So let me ask you a follow up to that. As Dell EMC, you know one company, sometimes when you're two companies it's hard to do that type of engineering, can you talk about as Dell EMC as one, how the engineering culture and results, the outcomes have improved or changed? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I'm not just going to focus on engineering, because I really want to take a look at the entire organization. So it goes all the way from engineering, marketing product management, sales, it's that whole eco-system. You can even talk about the support organization, the quality and we really have tight relationship between Nutanix and the Dell EMC counterparts. So to give you a good example, I talk with my product management counterparts and I talk with the sales leaders on a nearly daily basis and we want to make sure that relationship is really strong and that we evolve the relationship over time. >> Can we talk a little bit about scalability? We talked earlier at the top about work loads, VDI was very popular, remote office was kind of a sweet spot of hyperconvergent the early days. It's evolved, but scalability is always been a question. Where are we at with regards to scalability of hyperconvergent infrastructure? >> That's a great question. So, HCI came from the big Cloud providers and that technology was really meant to bring the tenants of what we saw with the scale of Cloud providers into the mainstream data centers. And so to that end, scalability is a core attribute. I'll give you a good example here, when the 14th generation of XC Series comes out, we'll be able to plug that in to customers existing eco-systems. So let's say a customer has a 12th generation or a 13th generation Power Edge XC series, we can now plug that technology right into the same cluster and if you talk about reusing technology, integrating technology into the data center, and really providing great value, and making sure customers don't have to throw away say older or medium term technology like the 13th generation, now they can just use the new technology right in place with the existing. >> John can you talk about the portfolio a little bit I mean, you guys got one of everything. If I want it, you probably have it. But a lot of times that gets confusing for customers and partners, probably sales reps. Where does the XC Series and these new announcements, where does it fit in the portfolio relative to some of the other things you are announcing? >> We get this question all the time. In my mind, it's really clear. For customers who have standardized on VMware, we have the xRail. For customers now who want say a choice of hyper visor or for customers who have already standardized on Nutanix software, we have XC Series. So there's absolutely room for both. We know the market is really big and it's growing fast and we have options for customers now whether they want to run on VMware or they want to run on say on Hyper-V as a good example. >> Let's see, when can I get this stuff? Can I buy it today or soon? >> It's available now, it's available now. And we have customers who are anxiously waiting because the new technologies are on their platforms. So it's available now and shipping now as well. >> Excellent. All right, we got to break, but I'll give you last word. Things like key take aways, you know, what should we be thinking about with this announcement, with the partnership? >> Absolutely, I think the key things here is the partnership is still growing strong, and we really feel that the best way to consume Nutanix software is on the XC series in combination with Dell and really getting the best out of both worlds. Out of the Nutanix relationship, out of the Dell relationship. >> Excellent, right, we got to go, but let's see CrowdChat coming up, #NextGenHCI, CrowdChat.net/NextGenHCI on Decemeber first. Where can I get more information about these products? >> If you go to DellEMC.com/HCI. >> Simple. All right, John, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. Appreciate it. Thanks for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's the Cube covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live at Dell EMC World 2017. This is Cube's coverage of Dell EMC, the combination, the big news here. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE and my co-host Paul Gillin. And our next guest is Steve Fingerhut, senior vice president and general manager of storage product business unit at Toshiba and Ravi Pendekanti, ex-VP of service solutions and product management at Dell EMC. Guys, welcome to the Cube. Good to see you, Ravi. Steve nice to meet you. >> Thanks for having us. >> Steve, so tell us what's going on at Toshiba, 'cause I want to hear what you guys are doing and your role in the relationship with Dell EMC. And what is going on with your architecture because we've been hearing a ton about IoT of the edge, centralized pushing the intelligence to the edge, new architectures. The world is kind of moving to a new architecture. What's your pitch? >> Sure. Well Dell and Toshiba have a long history 20 plus years of working and both strong innovators. We're engaged both in our hard drive products as well as our SSD products, really across every aspect of Dell's portfolio, client server and storage. And we're really taking the architecture, both of those product categories are really popular as everyone, data explosion is happening. A lot of that is ending up on storage and our focus areas on hard drive are around the near line storage which are the high capacity eight terabyte and higher, really popular with the cloud architectures. We have a 14 and 16 terabyte helium-based drive coming out next year, which will put us in a strong leadership position. And then on the SSD side what we're highlighting at the show today is our latest generation NAND. And we've moved into 3-D NAND and we're showing our wafer with 64-layer, 3-D flash as well as the first public demonstration of any company of an SSD using that 64-layer, 3-D flash. So we're on that cutting edge and we see that really growing. And you mentioned IoT, that's really driving a lot of the big data growth. A lot of that data will reside on hard drives, right, for the long-term storage, but then you bring that into an SSD tier for the very rapid analytics work that you want to do to make decisions with that data. >> Steve, talk about the impact of the latest state-of-the-art, because to me it's, oh my God, it's speeds and feeds but storage, people always care about storage. Go back to the original iPod, then iPhone, things are in devices, you mentioned IoT, state-of-the-art has to get better, faster, cheaper. What's the impact to some of those specs that you guys just released in terms of the media, the SSD? What's the impact going to be for customers? Scenario-wise, what's some of the the impact going to look like? >> Sure, I think the number one impact as I talk to customers here at the event and it's no surprise but-- >> Give me more of that they say. (laughs) >> Every customer, every Dell executive says we need more. So really it's just the SSD adaption >> Ravi: Yes we do need more. >> Exactly, so that's exploding. So the number one thing this will do is it's the, each individual die on the wafer doubles in capacity and will soon double again and double again after that. So this 3-D technology really allows us to drive density. And that means lower cost, it means more capacity. It also means we can develop denser SSD. So more in the same space or smaller space. >> For the consumer it's obvious, it's all the devices, the wearables, but the business is really more fundamental than that, things that are going to be connected to the network, the microwave, the air conditioning, all the sensors in the world are going to be now digitally connected once analog, now digital. I mean, that's kind of where, does that kind of get that right? >> Absolutely, and those are, that same technology will be used in a a lot of end devices. It's in your smart phone, it's in your smart watch. It'll be in a lot of those smart devices capturing the temporary data. But then that all gets consolidated in a massive pool and companies are looking for how do they efficiently scale to capture and analyze that data and turn it into revenue and profit. And that's where the performance of SSDs and in the future the higher capacity levels will all efficient scaling at the data center. >> Ravi, in the hyper diverge market, now all the sudden you've got the storage coming back into the server-- >> Ravi: Yep. >> What are customers looking for in terms of performance on the storage side? Are they driving you for the same kind of constant drive for more capacity and better performance? >> Absolutely, Paul, I mean if you think about it the workloads of today are vastly different than the workloads of the past. Think about it. Today people are not looking for data to be just collected. It doesn't have the complete value or in my view it doesn't give you anything other than just lots of bits and bytes. What really gives you the power to act upon is information and so to create information you need to take the data, go process it and get you to the same, to the level of detail you can act upon right? So that's the analytic extension. So having said that, today when you look at any of the industries, whether it's genomics, whether you're looking at mission learning, deep learning, these require a sense of performance to be provided for our customers because they are looking at analyzing data quickly enough. That's when they can act on it. So our customers are absolutely asking for better performance and higher capacity and they need it now. >> So Toshiba's not a new player to you though, they've been a supplier to the Power Edge, right? >> Oh, absolutely true. They've been a fantastic supplier for the last 20 years. We look at them more as a partner. They've been with us through the journey. We've been, if you think about it, for the last couple of decades we've been shipping your product and they've been working through us. We've been working together, just not as, it's not just a supplier kind of relationship. We actually track their new technologies. Steve just talked about 3-D cross point and things of that kind. We are working on those technologies together to ensure that we give our customers just not the latest technology but also to to provide them with the right price performance. Again, I emphasize price performance because it's just not one of them on it's own that has merit to our customers. >> Is brand important to your customers in terms of a storage provider? Do they ask for Toshiba brand? Or does it matter? >> What they do ask for is they ask for reliability. Right, they want to make sure that they have a reliable product. And then if you think about it that really translates to them to certain vendors. So yeah, they could have a potential propensity for a certain vendor. But it all starts with reliability. If you really can't have a reliable component in the service that we sell, it really doesn't help our customers. And that's where, it goes back to the point I was making earlier, which is this long-standing relationship with the companies because we have built that reliable product that Toshiba's been providing for us. >> Steve, tell us about the relationship with SSD and the enterprise? Everybody knows people want more solid state, that's, everyone kind of sees the consumer product. Where's the progress bar in terms of adoption because we, I hear stories and we actually report them on SiliconANGLE, I'm buying capacity, I'm all flash drives. Server certainly has their share of flash as well. David Foyer and Wendy Bond have been covering that for years but now in the Enterprise and all the other mainstream products, where's the analogy here, what's the tipping point? Are we there or? >> Well, if you look at if from a dollars spent perspective, actually this year is the crossover where Enterprise's SSDs will consume a higher amount of the spin than Enterprise hard drives. So people are putting their money-- >> Spinning disc, you mean. >> Exactly. >> The old hard drive. >> And so that crossover will happen, has happened, if we had more supply, if the industry had more supply I'm sure it would have already happened. And now if you look at it from a gigabytes perspective of course hard drives are much, much, are still the vast majority of the bits shipped. And so, it really is about data, intelligent use of flash. It's fast, it's very reliable, it consumes less power but it is also more expensive, so you have to pick the right applications and the right ways of deploying those. And that's were Dell and Toshiba work together with partners like VMware. We're talking about a certified solution around Toshiba Dell, VMware V stand, as well as Nutanix. And both of those solutions in a converged architecture and hyper-converged architecture, they rely on SSDs in every mode to ensure you get the performance scaling. >> The SSD has been exciting because sort of hard disc performance peaked out about 10 years ago, and we've been jerry-rigging ways to make it faster but SSDs genuinely are getting faster and faster. What is the upper limit on speed right now? Are we looking at Moore's law type of growth in performance or does that top out at some point? >> We can, we get to saturating the interface with performance but I'll tell you the most customers aren't asking us for more IOPS performance or more bandwidth, certainly they'll take it but when you put several of these in a server or storage box, it's more than the interface can consume. So certainly there's been, if you look at the bi-segment type of growth rates, it's moving into how cheap can we make it, can we reduce the endurance. It's still plenty fast and kind of opening that up. That's a growing tier. And so we're really seeing that kind of good enough performance driving a lot of the expansion. >> Ravi, how about the architectural challenges? I was joking with Dave Vallant, a couple Cube things ago about Dell, oh Dell, their supply chain was their big innovation and everyone kind of knows that story of how they, I said data is the new supply chain. Data is now coming in and you got the form factor on storage memory, which everyone wants more SSD, give me more, we heard that. How are you guys going to build your server architecture to handle the tsunami of data coming in from stuff that this is going to enable. I mean, everything in the business will be instrumented with data. >> Absolutely. >> Devices and sensors are coming in. >> Yep. >> Is there a server for that and how do you >> Steve: It's called streaming. >> It's a moving train architecturally. >> Ravi: Yes it is. >> So what do you guys doing, give us an overview. >> It's interesting that you ask, John, because when you look at a server today it does have to deal with lots of data coming in. And it's just not data but if you look at it, there are, we used to talk about storage tiering, now I think we got to start looking at memory tiering. And what this means is we have to fundamentally change the way the architecture of the system is put in place and for example in 14G, we are now coming out with more of our important talent sets. It's all about scalable business architecture. Again, this goes into the whole premise of, we talk about work loads, as work loads change, you talk about IoT, you talked about how all the data is coming in, you got to synthesize it. You also need to have an architecture that essentially says I have to go get this data in. I get it the right time. It's not just getting data in. So we are working on things called MCA, which is memory centered architectures. 'Cause at the end of the day, it's analogous to, and I'm from California, we have in the Bay area, we have the 101, that kind of is the nerve of the entire Bay area. >> John: It's crowded, we need more. >> It's crowded. >> We need flying cars. >> A lot of bottlenecks. >> Absolutely right. >> Io problems. (laughs) >> Absolutely right. >> Yeah, right. >> That's your IOPS. >> Elon Musk is going to figure this out. >> Yeah, that's the goal right. >> Flying cars. >> We on the service side are trying to do the same thing, which is as more data, like more cars are on the road, we now have to go to ensure that the connectivity between the memories of system, your storage subsystem, and the CPU actually comes out to be a low latency, high bandwidth kind of a solution, which is what goes back into what I call memory centered architectures. So that's essentially what we're working on, to ensure that we have an optimal performance at the application level because that's what customers need. >> Cool, well what is tiered memory and is that actually a thing now in the 14G server? >> So tiered memory is something that, I mean, we are setting the stage for the future, right? So we talk about tiered storage. Were are tier one, tier two, tier three storage. If data was not being utilized you basically took the data but it on the tapes for example, right? In the current generation, a lot of people use hard drives as a way of putting data out. So likewise in memory, I mean, if you really think about it you have the registers, you bought the L one cache, the L two cache, those caches. Then we are coming into all kinds of NVMe drives. So that's what I mean by kind of clearing the air to deal with. There is normal memory, you've got persistent memory, right? So those are the new memory-- >> By the way, stateless cloud native really and microservices use state and stateless apps and, you differentiate between the two and SSD is great for that. >> Yes, so this is where I was going back to your question, Paul, is that's the way I think we are in the early stages of how we evolve. So that's where you'll see we're going to support no persistent memory for example, when people look at SAP HANA, they won't have memory. It's basically in memory database. So these are the kind of things we are doing. So with 14G for example we are working on things like that. We'll have 14, I mean about 19X, more NVMe than we had in the prior generation. I wish I could give you more specifics but we will do as we get into the formal shipment of the product, but-- >> John: Shipment's in the summer, though right? This summer is what I heard? >> Summer. >> Summer time frame, a few months away. >> Yeah. >> Okay, talk about the relationship between you guys. Obviously you're partners, this is a significant component, I would worry about as a customer, availability concerns, allocation of products. Are we good, supply solid? I didn't mean to put you on the spot. >> No, absolutely. >> Let's put him on the spot, we need more. >> It's a great question. >> Get the checkbook out, I get a commission. >> You know it's a great teamwork. You think about like the great teams in history, the Jordan-Pippin, they worked together. >> John: Bird and McHale. >> Exactly, and they can anticipate each other's next steps and that's really how we're operating. Ravi mentioned that we've worked hard to make sure we have product alignment up and down and the next is Dell technologies has massive scale so aligning the supply chains is key and we've done that to make sure we have the right products in the right place for Dell's customers. But in terms of supply, yeah, it really is about getting to that next generation where we can double our capacity per wafer or even more in some cases. So that will really allow us to open the spigots and we think 2018 is going to be a-- >> And the impact to the customers, guys, just comment on the relationship, what's going to be the impact to your customers? >> So, first and foremost, jokes apart, we know about the constraints in the industry on SSD drives. So that's an industry-wide thing. So one of the things we've been doing with Toshiba is we have regular interlock meetings. We discuss where the demand is, and we help forecast where we are headed. We actually worked through the process. We do anticipate that something that Steve's team and our teams will be doing together. >> John: This is not new for Dell, this is their wheelhouse. >> It is, it is. But I will tell you, John, given the constraints we have in industry, I must say that in the last couple of quarters, we had to put a lot more emphasis on how we go deal with this because, going back to the prior comments that gentlemen made, there's such a demand for the SSDs right now, that I wish the supply and demand were not out of balance. But they are, right? We got to work through and try to ensure that we don't surprise them as partners so we don't come back and say "Hey, give us a truckload tomorrow." So that's something that we are actually finishing. >> And they're shaping your strategy too. They're an indicator to where you can go based upon the tech, the state-of the-art. >> Absolutely, this is were our call is. It's a constant feedback mechanism we have built. I mean they know the SSD drive market, the NAND flash technologies better than we do. Right, they do. And we understand the overall customer side and what impact is from the computer for example in our case. And now we go back in and try and see how we can do a better mechanism of shaping the demand and ensuring that the right product is available at the right time. >> Is a relief in sight with the shortages? >> I think it's going to be linked to those next generation technologies. As we ramp those and get them into production, the SSDs and into Dell EMC systems, then you will see the balance come back in the industry. >> Paul: A year, two years, less? >> That's, I think most people are saying it's going to last through this year. We're obviously working very hard to get the right products in the right place but I think most people are saying it'll last through this year, but we'll see. It's hard to predict. >> I think that's the consistent message we get is at least three to four quarters before things stabilize. >> Well, Ravi, congratulations on this scale. I think it's a huge advantage and certainly you've got some great supplier relationships with the scale. Congratulations to Steve on the state-of-the-art new stuff coming. More, faster, come on, bring it on. >> Absolutely. >> John: Internet of things is waiting. >> It is. That market is waiting for you guys. Congratulations, thanks for coming on Cube. We appreciate you sharing insights. >> Thank you, I mean, we couldn't have found a better partner as we announce our 14G and we are excited about it. Thank you for having us both, John and Paul. >> Great stuff. >> Thank you for having us. >> Bringing you state-of-the-art content here in the Cube but more importantly faster, memory, SSDs and the Enterprise taking over the hard disc drive certainly a ton of data, a tsunami of data coming in from all angles, IoT and the Enterprise and everywhere else. It's the Cube sharing hard data with you. Be right back with more live coverage. Stay with us. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Hello everyone, welcome to the Cube special coverage of Dell EMC World 2017. This is the Cube Silicon Angle's flagship program where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. This is our eighth year of covering EMC World, but now called Dell EMC World. I'm John Furrier, your co-host on our set one and with my co-host Paul Gillin this week as well as Kieth Townshend and John Walls and Rebecca Knight on set two. Double barrel shotgun of content here at Dell EMC World with you. Thanks for joining us for three days of wall to wall coverage. Paul, so much to talk about here this week. Digital transformation, little bit boring theme, it's being played out in real time. But this is a historic moment because one, the Cube started at EMC World in 2010, eight years ago. But, this is the first official EMC World where it's Dell EMC World, kind of a mini event in Austin, but since Michael Dell took over, or I'm sorry, merger of equals, a combination. >> Paul: Combination, as they call it. >> (chuckling) Combination. This is the first instantiation of EMC World as Dell EMC World. Jeremy Burton's now the CMO of Dell Technologies which is the holding company for all the companies. It's the same EMC World flair, now the integrated content. Notable absent Cube alumni and executives from EMC. We'll talk about that in the EMC Mafia segment shortly, but (chuckling) your thoughts because now Michael Dell's puttin' the rubber to the road. Kind of nothing earth shattering in his keynote, but certainly private company, all guns blaring, smiling and dialing, he's got the swagger on stage. >> Well, Michael is nothing if not an optimist. He's always good at seeing a brighter future, and at his keynote this morning, as you said it was blissfully free of content, but it did talk a lot about digital transformation which is of course the buzzword of the year in the IT industry. Little surprised that Dell adopted the same buzzword that HP and Cisco and all these other big companies are adopting. What happened in the keynote is less interesting than how the mood changes here, and this is the coming out party for Dell EMC. Yeah, there was a conference last October, a month after the merger, but this is really, things have finally settled out, now six months later and it's a chance for customers and for the partners to get a sense of how well this is all working out. >> And one of the things I'm watching is how the story's unfolding 'cause now you're starting to see the big companies, certainly in the consolidation side of the business market of infrastructure and data center and enterprise IT, it's a consolidating mature market. It is transforming, there is a cloud story requirement, there are new software requirements, software defined data center, as well as new growth opportunities, so what I'm looking at is what is the story? What is Michael packaging and how does that compare to the competition? We're going to hear from HPE at HPE Discover coming up, the Cube will be covering that for the seventh consecutive year. We're seeing Amazon's story playing out in real time. Oracle's story, everyone's got their story. And it's certainly digital transformation but what's interesting is Michael's got the packaging. He's packaging it up, your thoughts. >> And Michael kind of dissed the cloud this morning, actually in his presentation. He said, you can't have a successful business, or your business is not going to grow as quickly if you're 100% cloud based. He was very much making a pitch for data center infrastructure. Really not surprising coming from Michael. One thing that will be a sub-theme here I think is how this merger is working out, and as we wrote on Silicon Angle this week, if you go back to the history of big mega mergers, particularly in the hardware industry, going back to Burroughs Sperry, DEC Compaq, HP Compaq, Wellfleet Synoptics and NCR AT&T. I mean, it goes on and on and on. Pretty much all disasters, and we really haven't seen a merger anywhere near this scale between two IT companies that has worked well. All indications are now that they're doing the right things, they even have some people on board with Dell EMC who went through some of those mergers. But it's going to be interesting to see how they break a pattern that has been decidedly negative. >> Great point, I loved your post by the way, and I would add that interesting observation, at least from my perspective is, as we sit down with these billionaires and interview them one-on-one on the Cube is, you look at Amazon, Andy Jasse and Jeff Bezos, Bezos in particular. Larry Ellison and Michael Dell, you have essentially captains of industry at the helm. Michael Dell is no spring chicken, but he's also not over the hill either, he's 51 years old. >> Paul: He's a kid relative to most leaders in this industry. >> You know, you hear Jeff Bezos talk and I was watching his talk in DC just this week, he's saying we're taking the long view. If you look at Amazon.com's CEO, Bezos, look at Michael Dell, look at what Ellison's doing, they're all playing the long game card. Now I don't know if that's a hedge against we don't have our story right, or give us more time to bake out our stuff, but I think what's different about Dell Technologies is, Michael's 33 years into the business, one trillion dollars later in sales and he's young, so I think that is a wild card. Ellison's still running the show, Bezos is still running the show, Dell's certainly running the show. I think the wild card on this is the fact that you got a strong founder, and a privately held company. >> And Ellison, it's questionable how long Ellison will be able to run the show, I mean he is over 70 at this point. Dell certainly will be around for a long time. You have to take a long term strategy. If you're not Amazon, you have to take a long term strategy 'cause what other choice do you have? You've lost in the short term, so it's not surprising to hear these guys going that way. I'll be interested to hear from Michael and from his team about the cloud and how they really design and differentiate its strategy. I think IBM has staked its position in cloud out pretty well. Even HPE has got a differentiated position. HPE of course has the configurable hardware, that's a point that Dell I think has to come back on, and the big question is software. John, as you pointed out the other day, VMware is worth more than HPE, by a substantial margin at this point. They've got this huge asset in VMware, not to mention Virtuestream and Pivotal and the other good software assets they acquired. What are they going to do with them? Are they just going to let 'em go free like Michael has done in the past, or are they going to try to mold these into some kind of coordinated whole? >> Well, great point one is on the HPE valuation thing market cap, VMware's actually worth more on market cap and public markets than HPE. Interesting, but not significant in my mind yet, but it does point to the fact that Michael Dell's rhetoric on stage today, he didn't take any shots at HP. Last year he took a big shot at HPE. It's been his rival from day one. I used to work at HP when he was just a mail order company selling white boxes and then he grew that business, obviously the rest is history, but no shot at HP because VMware has to work with HP. Right, (chuckling) so that's interesting. Two is, on the software side, Dell is a hardware company, let's face it. But they have more software now than they've ever had before so that is a good point, we're going to be getting into this date software defined data center to find out how much they actually have. A couple core themes that I see already popping out of the keynote, one, Pivotal. Pivotal and Cloud Foundry's instrumental in the keynotes. NSX was mentioned, Pat Gelsinger's going to be on tomorrow. NSX is VMware's secret play. If you look at what NSX is doing with the Amazon public cloud deal that they did recently this year, NSX could be the real lever in that intellectual property, that lock in, that kind of differentiation. The cloud is not a place, it's a way of doing IT is another message we heard all day today. To me, and your point about bashing cloud, I actually think that's a stake in the ground to kind of hold the line, because they have no cloud strategy. Now, their cloud strategy is kind of hand waiving right now with multi-cloud, which I buy, but multi-cloud is still a fantasy in my mind. Latencies are too low, there just isn't the kind of plumbing yet in place on the clouds for multi-cloud, but certainly hybrid-cloud I think will be multi-cloud roll, so those are the key things and then I'm going to ask Michael directly. You blew 60 billion dollars on this deal. Is there any cash left for M&A? >> Paul: Acquisitions, yeah. >> M&A right now is hot market, you can do some nice tuck ins, fill in the white spaces on the products. Get those software assets and really start cobbling together a growth strategy. There's no doubt in my mind, Paul, that they're going to win the mature, classic business school move of consolidated market. Own the consolidated market, and try to get a growth strategy. To me, that's going to be the big question. What is Dell Technologies and Dell EMC's growth strategy? >> And you would have to think it's either through M&A, perhaps an acquisition of HPE if the valuation continues to go down. Or it's in software It's a good point you made about VMware. Vmware also has a strategic alliance with IBM, so if you're Michael Dell, it's hard to give a compelling keynote speech these days because you can't really offend anybody. His companies now are in cahoots with all these other firms, and of course dissing the cloud is even dangerous because Cloud Foundry is such a critical part of the Pivotal strategy. I think it's an important point, you've got a company that is almost trying to reassemble the old IBM, the old IBM of the '80s which dominated every segment that was important Dell is almost doing that now, I mean the only piece they really don't have is networking. To make a big play, to become the mongo IT company in the world, can they raise the kind of funds for that? >> Yeah, and we're also going to talk about the cloud transition as well as what I'm calling the EMC mafia, folks that have been on the Cube and big executives at EMC. We'll get to that in a minute, but I just want to talk about that cloud play, because you're right, the growth strategy has to come from software. I just don't see the cloud growth yet for these guys, although Michael, in the hallway, conversations are growth in the cloud is doing really well for EMC, not sure. But on the growth strategy, Pivotal, Boo-Mee, Vmware, Virtuestream, and Software Converge Infrastructure are interesting plays, so I think that's where we have to look here. I still think there's a lot of holes in the product line. To me that's important. Now, trends so far, and what we're expecting to hear at the show is, some of my notes Paul, I'll share with you, and get your reaction on. All flash arrays are going to be big, continuing to grow that. Hyperconverge VX rail, we heard that on stage today, claiming to be number one. Power edge 14G. Again, back to speeds and feeds, (chuckling) you know. Storage. Storage is the bread and butter of EMC and now Dell EMC I still think is going to be a real critical beachhead that they going to continue to expand, storage is not going away. Obviously the ice lawn all flash is coming out, and then SSD's, data protection in the cloud. You're starting to see them going where their roots are. Cloud stuff is coming out of the data domain, kind of their core storage first, make sense strategy wise, while they buy their time to fill in the cloud. >> Well, it's a good point about storage. They have a comfortable lead in storage. According to the latest IDC figures, they're a good 15 points ahead of their next biggest competitor. They have a comfortable lead in the hyper converge infrastructure. Four different product lines in that area. These are beachheads that they have to shore up. They have to be sure that their market share doesn't erode in those areas. The question is where does the growth come from? You look at a company that's going through a very similar transition right now, Cisco, which has finally really bought in to software defined networking and is remaking its company around it. That company is having to change the whole culture in response to a technology trend. Now the same thing's going on in the data center. Everything's being remade as virtualized and Vmware is at the center of that, so Michael Dell has the asset to be able to lead that conversion, but are they psychologically going to get there? >> Great point. One, I would agree with you that the whole Cisco example proves the same channel that Dell EMC is. Can they move up the stack? In this case, they're hardware guys, can they add software. Cisco, they're transforming themselves to be more cloud native. The classic move's happening. Cisco have been trying to move up the stack for over a generation. They're plumbing guys, they're networking guys. These guys are hardware guys. Can they get the DNA to truly become software providers, not in the sense of selling software, just providing a software fabric that's going to be the key differentiators, because digital transformation is about IT transformation. That is certainly the reality, what we're seeing when you start to peel back the onions. And that to me is going to be the big discussion because as David Gooldun said on stage, apps provide the value. As the enterprises build more apps, you got to have a platform, you got to have a cohesive horizontal end to end software fabric, and the question is, do they have it? >> Well, they certainly have the foundation for it, I mean they have Pivotal, there's a whole developer community around Pivotal. Dell itself doesn't have a developer community, nor does EMC but they have elements of that to build upon. The interesting thing about the conversion to software, about software defined infrastructure, is that it requires thinking from an application perspective and that's not something hardware companies have ever been inclined to do. So, how does Michael Dell make that transition, has he made it himself, is there other leadership he's going to have to bring in who are going to make it for him? The whole leadership of the Dell EMC company right now is ex-Dell and EMC people, it's hardware guys. >> I'm going to put pressure on Dell, the question on software. But you wrote a two part series on SiliconAngle.com, worth checking out, getting a lot of viral buzz around open source and the value of open source, because if you look at say Cisco for instance, what they're doing with the cloud native strategy, they have actually pivoted and Chuck Robbins, the CEO has acknowledged, actually re-tweeted one of my tweets the other day, with as we were talking about this new program called DevNet Create. They're taking the developer program from Cisco and moving it into an open community model, which basically is the toe in the water for saying, we have to figure out open source. All the critical, big vendors that are transforming from called the old guard, as Amazon calls 'em, Amazon Web Services, Andy Jasse. Dell's an old guard guy, but still young, but they got to get to open source. What are you finding is the success parameters there because you got to play in the open source, be a contributing member. Again, back to the DNA of the culture, and two, there's real value there. >> Well, there's no question that open source has won when it comes to infrastructure. I mean, the biggest IT companies in the world which are Google and Facebook, are both built on open source platforms. Game over. This is where IT infrastructure is headed. Cisco, interesting case because they are an infrastructure company, and they are being eroded, their traditional market is being eroded by open source, they've chosen to embrace it through their developer community. Cisco is one company I would never bet against. They're such a great company. If anyone's going to make the transition, they will. Open source is still an infrastructure play. I don't see open source in the applications area being a major driver, but Dell is an infrastructure company, so you have to assume that everything they're doing in managing, in securing storage and servers is going to be under pressure from open source at some point. They have to embrace that as Cisco is doing. >> Paul, we had thought leader chat with some experts on our digital panel, software crowd chat, everyone knows crowdchat.net, check it out. And comment and conversation was taking place among the influential folks saying, what is a software company? You go back to the web, shrink wrapped, download software, to now fully SAS based and Saas now platform, what is a software company? So, the question was, is Facebook a software company? Or are they an app company? Which begs the question, you have to be a software company, but it's not the classic software company category, business model. You need software (chuckling) to run stuff, so you can be a hardware guy, like Michael Dell, and have Dell Technologies. You can be a network company like Cisco, but you've got to be a software company in the new way. >> Well, I spoke to a Forester analyst in writing that piece on open source who had a great point, he said Facebook and Google are two big successful software companies, neither of which makes. >> Any money. >> Any money, a little bit in Google's case licensing software. They created business models that have nothing to do with the traditional software model, but that have leveraged their expertise in the software that they've developed. And maybe that is the business model, ultimately the business model is building software in order to do something else with it that customers will pay for. >> I think you're on to something. I think your post illuminates that. I think that this is going to be one of those things where in the history books of the tech generation, as we're on our whatever wave of open source generation, this is it, it's not about the business model of the software, it's how the software's being used in the business model of the transformation. That is really really key. Paul, I want to just talk about, really quickly about my observation at EMC. A little bit of editorial moment here. Because, Dell took over. Dell EMC. We've interviewed now eight years, pretty much all the executives at EMC over the years, but there's an EMC mafia developing. There's a lot of people who have left EMC, that we know, we're friends with. Guy Churchwood, CJ DeSai, Josh Conn, Rich DePellatano, Brian Gallagher, BJ Jenkins, Sanjay Murchandani, and many more have left because of the consolidation. Certainly you can't, EMC's going to get consolidated down, but no major layoffs but still enough that some eagles have flown from the nest, as they say and are running other companies. So you have this EMC culture out there of very sales oriented, very customer centric, now running other companies, and I want to give a shout out to all those EMC alumni and mafia out there. Good luck on your new ventures, but the impact here to Dell is a mashup of the two cultures. What's your observation, what's your reaction of that. Have you heard anything? I have some thoughts, but I want to get your reaction because okay, some eagles fly away, you still got the worker bees inside EMC, and now Dell coming together. Thoughts on the culture clash. >> Well, I live in Boston, and so I've been through the acquisition of Prime Computer, through EMC acquiring Data General, through the DEC acquisition by Compaq. All of which were disasters, and all of which where the cultural issues were much bigger than the technology issues. So, I think that that is something that Dell has to be front and center for Michael Dell, is how do you mash up these two cultures. As you pointed out, EMC, very aggressive, take no prisoners, enterprise-oriented sales force. Their sales people make a lot of money. I used to live in a neighborhood where everyone was EMC salespeople. >> John: Buying new houses. >> They were making a million dollars a year. And you've got Dell with its direct model, with its channeled model, and without a particularly strong roots in enterprise sales force and how do you coordinate those. It's not surprising to see people leaving. Of course, in the early days after an acquisition, choices get made, people get promoted and moved in new positions. Those who lose out tend to leave the company. But, I think the sales issue would be something to delve into too. Does Dell want to adopt EMC's sales style, or the other way around? Or is there some way that they can live both in harmony? >> You know, I follow a lot of companies in Silicon Valley as well, I'm out there on the west coast, left coast, as they say. Where all the crazy ones are, as they say. But I got to say, there's been some shrinkage on EMC, but for the most part, I haven't really heard any really negative horror stories. Actually, it's been going pretty well, and I think you bring up an issue of effectiveness with the sales folks. Dell's an efficiency guy, right so you got effectiveness and efficiency coming together. But I think they've handled it well. I really haven't heard any real horror stories. Again, I think that has to do with the founder being actively involved, they're a private company, so they have some room. And I think they've invested in making that happen, so I think generally, props to EMC folks and for the Dell folks on the acquisition. Still not clear the woods yet, it's going to surely be in the products and the revenue, but for the most part, we're going to unpack that. So Paul. >> But you can't, I just wanted to jump in just quickly. You can't minimize customer touch, and EMC was always a high touch company. Outstanding service, they put people on a plane in the middle of the night, charter a private jet in the middle of the night to get someone on site at a customer to fix a problem. As you mentioned, Dell is an efficiency company. That's not a very efficient way to operate. Can they absorb the best of EMC and the best of Dell at the same time? >> Yeah, well we'll certainly tell, I mean they got a lot of competition, Michael Dell saying on stage. (mumbling) startups, essentially what's he's saying is Amazon, there in my opinion, although that's not probly what he really meant but that's my interpretation. But I'm expecting to see the same old EMC world with a twist, and that is, we're doin' good, the messaging's out there, we're going to see how the products compare vis a vis the competition. I'm interested in Vmware piece. Paul, what are you looking forward to? >> I'm looking forward to hearing how this is all going, how this company is culturally, what kind of a cultural chimera they're putting together here that's going to make sense, that the market is going to understand. I also want to hear how they're going to differentiate in cloud, internet of things, we just heard a little bit about that this morning. That's something where I think you're seeing Cisco. The way Cisco's dealing with the cloud these days is to say, don't worry about it, it's all going IOT. It's all going to distributed intelligent devices, the cloud is already history, is what they're saying. So, does Dell have a similar differentiated position on that. I'm least interested in hearing about the new products because it's speeds and feeds. But really, how is this company going to dominate an industry, how is it going to get over some of the speed bumps that we've been talking about for the last 20 minutes that have foiled so many merger attempts in the past. >> One of the tell signs that I look at a conference when I see a lot of AI washing. The good news is, there's not a lot of AI being talked about here, 'cause usually that's just lipstick on the pig, as they say. Except for the case of Google and Amazon Web Services, they do have some AI story, with some real products to back it up. For the most part, you're not seeing EMC glob on the whole machine learning, rah rah. They did talk about it but it wasn't like a big theme. I think they really talked about the packaging of the value. Of the brands together, comments around costs for public cloud, nice little ding there. I'm going to dig into the story. I'm going to really test the story, and I'm going to look at the customer traction. I really want to see who they have on stage, I really want to hear who's really going down the road, how that growth strategy, 'cause I think they're going to win the data consolidation market pretty handily, and the question between HPE and Dell, for instance, 'cause that's really to me the two big horses on the track. Who's going to win the growth. Who's going to be able to lock in their beachhead on the core market, traditional market, and have access to the growth of what cloud will bring and IOT and among other things. >> I think at this point, HP has a better story in that area with their configurable infrastructure, with their pay as you go on site model, really interesting models. I was at HP World in Europe in December, and I came away from that feeling like these guys have some unique talking points here. At least they have a strategy that I think I understand and that is different. Dell is still working through this huge merger and that's a big catch. >> Bottom line is, Dave Donatelli, who's an executive at Oracle told me, he also was an EMC executive, and HPE. The business of provisioning servers and storage (laughing) is not going to be the growth strategy. Now, it might be a component of the overall business model, like software, but ultimately, that business is in decline, and that's a fact. Okay, this is the Cube, bringing you all the coverage of the kickoff from day one at Dell EMC World 2017. Our eighth year, three days of wall to wall coverage. We have two sets, the blue set and the white set. Go to SiliconAngle.tv to find the coverage, also go on Twitter, follow us on the Cube, I'm John Furrier with Paul Gillin, kickin' off Dell EMC World 2017, back with more, stay with us after this short break. (atmospheric instrumental music)