[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you [Music] [Applause] [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners come back this is the cubes coverage of Cisco live 2020 here in Barcelona doing about three and a half days of wall-to-wall coverage here I'm Stu minim and my co-host for this segment is Dave Volante John furs also here scouring the floor and really happy to welcome to the program to first-time guests I believe so Ron Daris is the product manager of product marketing for cloud computing with Cisco and sitting to his left is Matt Ferguson who's director of product development also with the Cisco cloud group Dave and I are from Boston Matt is also from the Boston area yes and Costas is coming over from London so thanks so much for joining us thanks IBPS all right so obviously cloud computing something we've been talking about many years we've really found fascinating the relationship Cisco's had with its customers as well as through the partner ecosystem had many good discussions about some of the announcements this week maybe start a little bit you know Cisco's software journey and you know positioning in this cloud space right now yes oh so it's a it's a really interesting dynamic when we start transitioning to multi cloud and we actually deal with cloud and compute coming together and we've had whether you're looking at the infrastructure ops organization or whether you're looking at the apps operations or whether you're looking at you know your dev environment your security operations each organization has to deal with their angle at which they view you know multi cloud or they view how they actually operate within those the cloud computing context and so whether you're on the infrastructure side you're looking at compute you're looking at storage you're looking at resources if you're an app operator you're looking at performance you're looking at visibility assurance if you are in the security operations you're looking at maybe governance you're looking at policy and then when you're a developer you really sort of thinking about CI CD you're talking about agility and there's very few organizations like Cisco that actually is looking at from a product perspective all those various angles of multi-cloud yeah definitely a lot of piece of cost us maybe up level it for us a little bit there's there's so many pieces you know we talked for so long you know you don't talk to any company that doesn't have a cloud strategy doesn't mean that it's not going to change over time and it means every company's got at home positioning but talk about the relationship cisco has with its customer and really the advisory position that you want to have with them it's actually a very relevant question to what to what Matt is talking about because we talk a lot about multi cloud as a trend and hybrid clouds and this kind of relationship between the traditional view of looking at computing data centers and then expanding to different clouds you know public cloud providers have now amazing platform capabilities and if you think about it the the it goes back to what Matt said about IT ops and the development kind of efforts why is this happening really you know there's there's the study that we did with with an analyst and there was an amazing a shocking stat around how within the next three years organizations will have to support 50% more applications than they do now and we have been trying to test this stat our events that made customer meetings etc that is a lot of a lot of change for organizations so if you think about why are they use why do they need to basically what go and expand to those clouds is because they want to service IT Ops teams want ER servers with capabilities their developers faster right and this is where you have within the IT ops kind of theme organization you have the security kind of frame the compute frame the networking where you know Cisco has a traditional footprint how do you blend all this how do you bring all this together in a linear way to support individual unique application modernization efforts I think that's what are we hearing from customers in terms of the feedback and this is what influences our strategy to converts the different business units and engineering engineering efforts right couple years ago I have to admit I was kind of a multi cloud skeptic I always said I thought it was more of a symptom than actually a strategy a symptom of you know shadow IT and different workloads and so forth but now I'm kind of buying in because I think IT in particular has been brought in to clean up the crime scene I often say so I think it is becoming a strategy so if you could help us understand what you're hearing from customers in terms of their strategy toward the multi cloud and how Cisco that was mapping into that yeah so so when we talk to customers it comes back to the angle at which they're approaching the problem in like you said the shadow IT has been probably around for longer than anybody won't cares to admit because the people want to move faster organizations want to get their product out to market sooner and and so what what really is we're having conversations now about you know how do I get the visibility how do I get you know the policies and the governance so that I can actually understand either how much I'm spending in the cloud or whether I'm getting the actual performance that I'm looking for that I need the connectivity so I get the bandwidth and so these are the kinds of conversations that we have with customers is is is going I realize that this is going on now I actually have to now put some you know governance and controls around that is their products is their solutions is their you know they're looking to Cisco to help them through this journey because it is a journey because as much as we talk about cloud and you know companies that were born in the cloud cloud native there is a tremendous number of IT organizations that are just starting that journey that are just entering into this phase where they have to solve these problems yeah I agree and it's just starting the journey with a deliberate strategy as opposed to okay we got this this thing but if you think about the competitive landscape its kind of interesting and I want to try to understand where Cisco fits because again you you initially had companies that didn't know in a public cloud sort of pushing multi cloud and you'd say oh well okay so they have to do that but now you see anthos come out with Google you see Microsoft leaning in we think eventually AWS is going to lean in and then you say I'm kind of interested in working with someone whose cloud agnostic not trying to force now now Cisco a few years ago you didn't really think about Cisco as a player now so this goes right in the middle I have said often that Cisco's in a great position John Fourier as well to connect businesses and from a source of networking strength making a strong argument that we have the most cost-effective most secure highest performance network to connect clouds that seems to be a pretty fundamental strength of yours and does that essentially summarize your strategy and and how does that map into the actions that you're taking in terms of products and services that you're bringing to market I would say that I can I can I can take that ya know it's a chewy question for hours yeah so I I was thinking about a satellite in you mentioned this before and you're like okay that's you know the world is turning around completely because we we seem to talk about satellite e is something bad happening and now suddenly we completely forgot about it like let let free free up the developers gonna let them do whatever they want and basically that is what I think is happening out there in the market so all the solutions you mentioned in the go to market approaches and the architectures that the public cloud providers at least are offering out there certainly the big three have differences have their strengths and I think those strengths are closer to the developer environment basically you know if you're looking into something like a IML there's one provider that you go with if you're looking for a mobile development framework you're gonna go somewhere else if you're looking for a dr you're gonna go somewhere else maybe not a big cloud but your service provider that you've been dealing with all these all these times and you know that they have their accreditation that you're looking for so where does Cisco come in you know we're not a public cloud provider we offer products as a service from our data centers and our partners data centers but at the - at the way that the industry sees a cloud provider a public cloud like AWS a sure Google Oracle IBM etc we're not that we don't do that our mission is to enable organizations with software hardware products SAS products to be able to facilitate their connectivity security visibility observability and in doing business and in leveraging the best benefits from those clouds so we we kind of we kind of moved to a point where we flip around the question and the first question is who is your cloud provider what how many tell us the clouds you work with and we can give you the modular pieces you can put we can put together for you so there's so that you can make the best out of your plan it's been being able to do that across clouds we're in an environment that is consistent with policies that are consistent that represent the edicts of your organization no matter where your data lives that's sort of the the vision in the way this is translated into products into Cisco's product you naturally think about Cisco as the connectivity provider networking that's that's really sort of our you know go to in what we're also when we have a significant computing portfolio as well so connectivity is not only the connectivity of the actual wire between geographies point A to point B in the natural routing and switching world there's connectivity between applications between cute and so this week you know the announcements were significant in that space when you talk about the compute and the cloud coming together on a single platform that gives you not only the ability to look at your applications from a experience journey map so you can actually know where the problems might occur in the application domain you can actually then go that next level down into the infrastructure level and you can say okay maybe I'm running out of some sort of resource whether it's compute resource whether it's memory whether it's on your private cloud that you have enabled on Prem or whether it's in the public cloud that you have that application residing and then why candidly you have the actual hardware itself so inter-site it has an ability to control that entire stack so you can have that visibility all the way down to the hardware layer I'm glad you brought up some of the applications wonderful we can you know stay there for a moment and talk about some of the changing patterns for customers a lot of talk in the industry about cloud native often it gets conflated with you know microservices containerization and lots of the individual pieces there but you know one of our favorite things that been talked about this week is the software that really sits at the application layer and how that connects down through some of the infrastructure pieces so help us understand what you're hearing from customers and and where how you're helping them through this transition to constants as you were saying absolutely there's going to be lots of new applications more applications and they still have the the old stuff that they need to continue to manage because we know an IT nothing ever goes away that's that's definitely true I was I was thinking you know there's there's a vacuum at the moment and and there's things that Cisco is doing from from technology leadership perspective to fill that gap between the application what do you see when it comes to monitoring making sure your services are observable and how does that fit within the infrastructure stack you know everything upwards network the network layer base again that is changing dramatically some of the things that Matt touched upon with regards to you know being able to connect the the networking the security in the infrastructure the computer infrastructure that the developers basically are deploying on top so there's a lot of there's a lot of things on containerization there's a lot of in fact it's you know one part of the of the self-injure side of the stack that you mentioned and one of the big announcements you know that there's a lot of discussion in the industry around ok how does that abstract further the conversation on networking for example because that now what we're seeing is that you have huge monoliths enterprise applications that are being carved down into micro services ok they you know there's a big misunderstanding around what is cloud native is it related to containers different kind of things right but containers are naturally the infrastructure de facto currency for developers to deploy because of many many benefits but then what happens you know between the kubernetes layer which seems to be the standard and the application who's gonna be managing services talking to each other that are multiplying you know things like service mesh network service mess how is the network evolving to be able to create this immutable infrastructure for developers to deploy applications so there's so many things happening at the same time where cisco has actually a lot of taking a lot of the front seat this is where it gets really interesting you know it's sort of hard to squint through because you mentioned kubernetes is the de facto standard but it's a de-facto standard that's open everybody's playing with but historically this industry has been defined by you know a leader who comes out with a de facto standard kubernetes not a company right it's an open standard and so but there's so many other components than containers and so history would suggest that there's going to be another de facto standard or multiple standards that emerge and your point earlier is you you got to have the full stack you can't just do networking you can't just do certain few so you guys are attacking that whole pie so how do you think this thing will evolve I mean you guys are obviously intend to put out as Casta as wide a net as possible capture not only your existing install base but attractive attract others and you're going aggressively at it as are as are others how do you see it shaking out deep do you see you know four or five pockets do you see you know one leader emerging I mean customers would love all you guys to get together come up with standards that's not going to happen so we're it's jump ball right now well yeah and you think about you know to your point regarding kubernetes is not a company right it is it is a community driven I mean it was open source by a large company but it's but it's community driven now and that's the pace at which open source is sort of evolving there is so much coming at IT organizations from a new paradigm a new software something that's you know the new the shiny object that sort of everybody sort of has to jump on to and sort of say that is the way we're going to function so IT organizations have to struggle with this influx of just every coming at them and every angle and I think what's starting to happen is the management and the you know that stack who controls that or who is helping IT organizations to manage it for them so really what we're trying to say is there's elements that you have to put together that have to function and kubernetes is just one example docker the operating system that associated with it that runs all that stuff then you have the application that goes rides IDEs on top of it so now what we have to have is things like what we just announced this week HX ap the application platform for HX so you have the compute cluster but then you have the on top of that that's managed by an organization that's looking at the security that's looking at the the actual making opinions about what should go in the stock and managing that for you so you don't have to deal with that because you can just focus on the application development yeah I mean Cisco's in a strong position to do there's no question about it and to me it comes down to execution if you guys execute and deliver on the the products and services that you say you know your nouns for instance this week and previously and you continue on a roadmap you're gonna get a fair share of this marketplace I think there's no question so last topic before we let you go is love your viewpoint on customers what's separating kind of leaders from you know the followers in this space you know there's so much data out there you know I'm a big fan of the state of DevOps report yeah focus you know separate you know some but not the not here's the technology or the piece but the organizational and you know dynamics that you should do so it sounds like Matt you you like that that report also love them what are you hearing from customers how do you help guide them towards becoming leaders in the cloud space yeah the state of DevOps report was fascinating and I mean they've been doing that for what a number of years yeah exactly and really what it's sort of highlighting is two main factors that I think that are in this revolution or this this this paradigm shift or journey we're going through there's the technology side for sure and so that's getting more complex you have micro services you have application explosion you have a lot of things that are occurring just in technology that you're trying to keep up but then it's really about the human aspect that human elements the people about it and that's really I think what separates you know the the elites that are really sort of you know just charging forward in the head because they've been able to sort of break down the silos because really what you're talking about in cloud native DevOps is how you take the journey of that experience of the service from end to end from the development all the way to production and how do you actually sort of not have organizations that look at their domain their data set their operations and then have to translate that or have to sort of you know have another conversation with another organization that it doesn't look at that that has no experience of that so that is what we're talking about that end-to-end view is that in addition to all the things we've been talking about I think Security's a linchpin here now you guys are executing on security you got a big portfolio and you've seen a lot of M&A and a lot of companies now trying to get in and it's gonna be interesting to see how that plays out but that's going to be a key because organizations are going to start there from a strategy standpoint and then build out yeah absolutely if you follow the DevOps methodology its security gets baked in along the way so that you're not having to sit on after do anything Custis give you the final word I was just as follow-up with regard what what Mark was saying there's so many there's what's happening out there is this just democracy around standards which is driven by communities and we will love that in fact cisco is involved in many open-source community projects but you asked about customers and and just right before you were asking about you know who's gonna be the winner there's so many use cases there's so much depth in terms of you know what customers want to do with on top of kubernetes you know take AI ml for example something that we have we have some some offering the services around there's the customer that wants to do AML there their containers that their infrastructure will be so much different to someone else's doing something just hosting yeah and there's always gonna be a SAS provider that is niche servicing some oil and gas company you know which means that the company of that industry will go and follow that instead of just going to a public law provider that is more organized if there's a does that make sense yeah yeah this there's relationships that exist the archer is gonna get blown away that add value today and they're not gonna just throw them out so exactly right well thank you so much for helping us understand the updates where your customers are driving super exciting space look forward to keeping an eye on it thank you thank you so much all right there's still lots more coming here from Cisco live 20/20 in Barcelona people are standing watching all the developer events lots of going on the floor and we still have more so thank you for watching the cute [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back over 17,000 in attendance here for Cisco live 2020 in Barcelona ops to Minh and my co-host is Dave Volante and to help us to dig into of course one of the most important topic of the day of course that security we're thrilled to have back a distinguished engineer Francisco one of our cube alumni TK Kia Nene TK thanks so much for joining us ideal man good good all right so TK it's 2020 it's a new decade we know the bad actors are still out there they're there the the question always is you know it used to be you know how do you keep ahead of them then I've here Dave say many times well you know it's not you know when it's it's not if it's when you know you probably already have been okay you know compromised before so it gives latest so you know what you're seeing out there what you're talking to customers about in this important space yeah it's uh it's kind of an innovation spiral you know we we innovate we make it harder for them and then they innovate they make it harder for us right and round and round we go that's been going on for for many years I think I think the most significant changes that have happened recently have to deal with not essentially their objectives but how they go about their objectives and Defenders topologies have changed greatly instead of just your standard enterprise you now have you know hybrid multi cloud and all these new technologies so while while all that innovation happens you know they get a little clever and they find weaknesses and round and round we go so we talked a lot about the sort of changing profile of the the threat actors going from hacktivists took criminals now is a huge business and nation-states even what's that profile look like today and how has that changed over the last decade or so you know that's pretty much stayed the same bad guys are bad guys at some point in time you know just how how they go about their business their techniques they're having to like I said innovate around you know we make it harder for them they you know on Monday we're safe on Tuesday we're not you know and then on Wednesday it switches again so so it talked about kind of this multi-cloud environment when we talk to customers it's like well I want the developer to be able to build their application and not really have to think too much underneath it that that has to have some unique challenges we know security we knew long ago well I just go to the cloud it doesn't mean they take care of it some things are there some things they're gonna remind you now you need to make sure you set certain things otherwise you could be there but how do we make sure that Security's baked in everywhere and is up as a practice that everybody's doing well I mean again some of the practices hold true no matter what the environment I think the big thing was cognitive is in back in the day when when you looked at an old legacy data center you were part sort of administrator in your part detective and most people don't even know what's running on there that's not true in cloud native environments some some llamó file some some declaration it's it's just exactly what productions should look like right and then the machines instantiate production so you're doing things that machine scale forces the human scale people to be explicit and and for me I mean that's that's a breath of fresh air because once you're explicit then you take the mystery out of what you're protecting how about in terms of how you detect threats right phishing for credentials has become a huge deal but not just you know kicking down the door or smashing a window using your your own credentials to get inside of your network so how is that affected the way in which you detect yeah it's it's a big deal you know a lot of a lot of great technology has a dual use and what I mean by that is network cryptology you know that that whole crypto on the network has made us safer for us to compute over insecure networks and unfortunately it works just as well for the bad guys so you know all of their malicious activity is now private to so it you know for us we just have to invent new ways of detecting direct inspection for instance I think it's a thing of the past I mean we just can't depend on it anymore we have to have tools of inference and not only that but it's it's gave rise in a lot of innovation on behavioral science and as you say you know it's it's not that the attacker is breaking into your network anymore they're logging in ok what do you do then right Alice Alice's account it's not gonna set off the triggers so you have to say you know when did Alice start to behave differently you know she's working in accounting why is she playing around with the source code repository that's that's a different thing right yes automation is such a big trend you know how do we make sure that automation doesn't leave us more vulnerable that's rarity because we need to be able automate we've gone beyond human scale for most of these configurations that's exactly right and and how do how do we I always say just with security automation in particular just because you can automate something doesn't mean you should and you really have to go back and have practices you know you could argue that that this thing is just a you know machine scale automation you could do math on a legal pad or you can use a computer to do it right what so apply that to production if you mechanized something like order entry or whatever you're you're you're automating part of your business use threat modeling you use the standard threaten modeling like you would your code the network is code now right and the storage is code and everything is code so you know just automate your testing do your threat modeling do all that stuff please do not automate for your attacker matrix is here I want to go back to the Alice problem because you're talking about before you have to use inference so Alice's is in the network and you're observing her moves every day and then okay something anomalous occurs maybe she's doing something that normally she wouldn't do so you've got to have her profile in her actions sort of observed documented stored the data has got to be there and at the same time you want to make sure it's always that balance of putting handcuffs on people you know versus allowing them to do their job and be productive at the same time as well you don't want to let the bad guys know that you know that alice is doing something that she didn't be doing is actually not Alice so all that complexity how are you dealing with it and what's the data model look like doing it machines help let's say that machines can help us you know you and I we have only so many sense organs and the cognitive brain can only store so many so much state machines really help us extend that and so you know looking at not three dimensions of change but 7000 dimensions have changed right something in the machine is going to say there's an outlier here that's interesting and you can get another machine to say that's that's interesting maybe I should focus on that and you build these analytical pipelines so that at the end of it you know they may argue with each other all the way to the end but at the end you have a very high fidelity indicator that might be at the protocol level it might be at the behavioral level it might be seven days back or thirty days back all these temporal and spatial dimensions it's really cheap to do it with a machine yeah and if we could stay on that for a second so it try to understand I know that's a high-level example but is it best practice to have the Machine take action or is it is it an augmentation and I know it depends on the use case but but how is that sort of playing out again you have to do all of this safely okay a lot of things that machines do don't return back to human scale stuff that returns back to human scale that humans understand that is as useful so for instance if machines you know find out all these types of in assertions even in medical you know right now if if you've got so much telemetry going into the medical field see the machine tells you you have three weeks to live I mean you better explain what the heck you know how you came about that assertion it's the same with security you know if I'm gonna say look we're gonna quarantine your machine or we're gonna readjust machine it's not I'm not like picking movies for you or the next song you might listen to this is high stakes and so when you do things like that your analytics needs to have what is called entailment you have to explain what it is how you got to that assertion that's become incredibly important in how we measure our effectiveness in in doing analytics that's interesting because because you're using a lot of machine intelligence to do this and in a lot of AI is blackbox you're saying you cannot endure that blackbox problem in security yeah that black boxes is is very dangerous you know I you know personally I feel that you know things that should be open sourced this type of technology it's so advanced that the developer needs to understand that the tester needs to understand that certainly the customer needs to understand it you need to publish papers and be very very transparent with this domain because if it is in fact you know black box and it's given the authority to automate something like you know shut down the power or do things like that that's when things really start to get dangerous so good TK what wondered you know give us the latest on stealthWatch there you know Cisco's positioning when it when it comes to everything we've been talking about here you know stealthWatch again is it's been in market for quite some time it's actually been in market since 2001 and when I when I look back and see how much has changed you know how we've had to keep up with the market and again it's not just the algorithms rewrite for detection it's the environments have changed right but when did when did multi-cloud happen so so operating again cusp it's not that stealthWatch wants to go their customers are going there and they want the stealthWatch function across their digital business and so you know we've had to make advancements on the changing topology we've had to make advancements because of things like dark data you know the the network's opaque now right we have to have a lot of inference so we've just you know kept up and stayed ahead of it you know we've been spending a lot of time talking to developer communities and there's a lot of open-source tooling out there that that's helping enable developers specifically in security space you were talking about open-source earlier how does what you've been doing the self watch intersect with that yeah that's always interesting too because there's been sort of a shift in let's call them the cool kids right the cool kids they want everything is code right so it's not about what's on glass or you know a single pane of glass anymore it's it's what stealth watches code right what's your router as code look at dev net right yeah yeah I mean definite is basically Cisco as code and it's beautiful because that is infrastructure as code I mean that is the future and so all the products not just stealthWatch have beautiful api's and that's that's really exciting I've been saying for a while now it's do you I think you agree is that that is a big differentiator for Cisco I think you you're one of the few if not the only large established player and the enterprise that has figured out that sort of infrastructure is code play others have tried and are sort of getting there but you know start/stop you use a term that really cool is like living off the land you know bear bear grylls like the guy who lives down so bad so and and and threat actors are doing that now they're using your own installed software and tooling to hack you and and steal from you how were you dealing with that problem yeah it's a tough one and like I said you know much respect the the adversary is talented and they're patient they're well funded okay that's that's where it starts and so you know why why bring why bring an interpreter to a host when there's already one there right why right all this complicated software distribution when I can just use yours and so that's that's where the the play the game starts and and the most advanced threats aren't leaving footprints because the footprints are already there you know they'll get on a machine and behaviorally they'll check the cache to see what's hot and what's hot in the cache means that behaviorally it's a path they can go they're not cutting a new trail most of the time right so living off the land is not only the tools that they're using the automation your automation they're using against you but it's also behavioral and so that that makes it you know it makes it harder it's it impossible no can we make it harder for them yes so yeah no I'm having fun and I've been doing this for over twenty five years every week it's something new well it's a hard problem you're attacking and you know Robert Herjavec who came on the cube sort of opened my eyes and you think about what are we securing we're securing everything I mean a critical infrastructure were essentially exerted securing the entire global economy and he said something that really struck me it's an 86 trillion dollar economy we spend point zero one four percent on securing that economy and it's nothing now of course he's an entrepreneur and he's pimping for his is his business but it's true we are barely scratching the surface of this problem yeah I'm and it's changing I mean it's changing it could it be better yes it is changing his board awareness you know twenty years ago then right me to a dinner party they you know what does your husband do I'd say you know cyber security or something they'd roll their eyes and change the subject now they asked me the same question so oh you know my computer's running really slow right these are not this is everyone I'm worried about a life hack yeah how do I protect myself or what about these coming off the bank I mean that's those guys a dinner table cover every party so now now you know I just make something up I don't do cybersecurity I just you know a tort or a jipner's you've been to this business forever I can't remember have I ever asked you the superhero question what is that your favorite superhero that's a tough one there's all the security guys I know they like it's always dreamed about saving the world [Laughter] you're my superhero man I love what you do I think you've a great asset for Cisco and Cisco's customers really thanks TK give us a final word if people want to you know find out more about about what Cisco's doing read more of what you're working on but what's some of the best resource I have to go do you know just drop by the web pages I mean everything's published out that like I said even even for the super nerdy you know we published all our our laurs security analytics papers I think we're over 50 papers published in the last 12 years TK thank you so much always a pleasure to catch alright yeah and a travels thank you so much for de Villante I'm Stu Mittleman John furrier is also in the house we will be back with lots more coverage here from Cisco live 20/20 in Barcelona thanks for watching the keys [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020s brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners hello and welcome back to the cubes live coverage it's our fourth day of four days of coverage here in Barcelona Spain for Cisco live 2020 I'm John Faria my co-host to many men to great guests here in the dev net studio where the cube is sitting all week long been packed with action mindy Whaley senior director developer experiences but dev net and partner a senior director welcome back to this cube good to see you guys glad to be here so we've had a lot of history with you guys what from day one yes watching def net from an idea of hey we should develop earthing you also have definite create yes separate more developer focused definite is Cisco's developer environment we've been here from the beginning what a progression congratulations on the success thank you thank you so much it's great to be here in Barcelona with everybody here you know learning in the workshops and we just love these times to connect with our community at Cisco live and it definitely ate what you mentioned which is coming up in March so it's right around the corner def net zone which we're in it's been really robust spins it's been the top of the show every year and it gets bigger and the sessions are packed because people are learning developers new developers as well as Cisco engineers who were certified coming in getting new skills as the modern cloud hybrid environments are new skills is a technology shift yeah exactly and what we have in the definite zone are different ways that the engineers and developers can engage with that technology shift so we have demos around IOT and security and showing how you know to prevent threats from attacking the Industrial routers and things like that we have coding workshops from you know beginning intro to Python intro to get all the way up through advanced like kubernetes topics and things like that so people can really dive in with what they're looking for and this year we're really excited because we have the new definite certifications with those exams coming out right around the corner in February so a lot of people are here saying I'm ready to skill up for those exams I'm starting to dive into this topic well Susie we was on she's the chief of deaf net among other things and she said there's gonna be a definite 500 the first 500 certifications of deaf net are gonna be kind of like the Hall of Fame or you know the inaugural or founder certifications so can you explain what this it means it's not a definite certification badge it's a series of write different sir can you deeper in then yeah just like we have our you know existing network certifications which are so respected and loved around the world people get CCIE tattoos and things just like there's an associate and professional and expert level on the networking truck there's now a definite associate a definite professional and coming soon definite expert and then there's also specialist badges which help you add specific skills like data center automation IOT WebEx so it's a whole new set of certifications that are more focused on the software so there are about 80 80 % software skills 20 percent knowledge of networking and then how you really connect up and down the stock so these are new certifications not replacing anything all the same stuff they're new they're part of the same program they have the same rigor the same kind of tests they actually have ways to enter weave with the existing networking certifications because we want people to do both skill paths right to build this new IT team of the future and so it's a completely new set of exams the exams are gonna be available to take February 24th and you can start signing up now so with the definite 500 you know that's gonna be a special recognition for the first 500 people who get dead note certifications it'll be a lifetime achievement they'll always be in the definite 500 right and I've had people coming up and telling me you know I'm signed up for the first day I'm taking my exams on the first day I'm trying to get into them you and I only always want to be on the lift so I think we might be on them and what's really great is with the certifications we've heard from people in the zone that they've been coming and taking classes and learning these skills but they didn't have a specific way to map that to their career path to get rewarded at work you know to have that sort of progression and so with the certifications they really will have that and it's also really important for our partners and par is doing a lot of work with certifications and partners yeah definitely that would love to hear a little bit we've interviewed on the cube over the years some of the definite partners from a technology standpoint of course the the channels ecosystem hugely important to Cisco's business gives the update as to you know definite partnering as well as what will these certifications mean to both the technology and go to market partners yeah the wonderful thing about this is it really demonstrates Cisco's embracement of software and making sure that we're providing that common language for software developers and networkers to bring the two together and what we've found is that our partners are at different levels of maturity along that progression of program ability and this new definite specialization which is anchored in the individuals that are now certified at that partner allow them to demonstrate from a go-to-market standpoint from a recognition standpoint that as a practice they have these skills and look at the end of the day it's all about delivering what our customers need and our customers are asking us for significant help in automation digital transformation they're trying to drive new business outcomes and this this will provide that recognition on on who to partner with in the market it's so important I remember when Cisco helped a lot of the partner ecosystem build data center practices went from the silos and now embracing you've got the hardware the software we're talking multi cloud it's the practice that is needed today going forward to help customers with where they're going it really is and and another benefit that we're finding and talking to our partners is we're packaging this up and rolling it out is not only will it help them from a recognition standpoint from a practice standpoint and from a competitive differentiation standpoint but it'll also help them attract challenge I mean it's no secret there is a talent shortage right now if you talk to any CEO that's top of mind and how these partners are able to attract these new skills and attract smart people smart people like working on smart things right and so this has really been a big traction point for them as well it's also giving ways to really specifically train for new job roles so some of the ways that you can combine the new definite certifications with the network engineering certifications we've looked at it and said you know there's there's a role of Network automation developer that's a new role everyone we ask in one of our sessions who needs that person on their team so many customers partners raise their hands like we want the network Automation developer on our team and you can combine you know your CCNP Enterprise with a definite certification and build up the skills to be that Network automation developer certainly has been great buzz I got to get your guys thoughts because certainly it's for careers and you guys are betting on the the people and the people are betting on Cisco mm-hmm yes this is what's going on submit surety of Devin it almost it's like a pinch me moment for you guys because you continue to grow I got to ask you what are some of the cool things that you're showing here as you mature you still have the start here session which is intro to Python and other things pretty elementary and then there's more advanced things what are some of the new things that's going on yeah that you could share so some of the new things we've got going on and one of my favorites is the IOT insecurity demonstration there's a an industrial robot arm that's picking and placing things and you can see how it's connected to the network and then something goes wrong with that robot alarm and then you can actually show how you can use the software and security tools to see was there code trying to access you know something that that robot was it was using it's getting in the way of it working so you could detect threats and move forward on that we also have a whole automation journey that starts from modeling your network to testing to how you would deploy automation to a deep dive on telemetry and then ends with multi domain automation so really helping engineers like look at that whole progression that's been that's been really popular Park talked about the specialization which ones are more popular or entry-level which ones are people coming into getting certified first network engineering automation first or what's the yeah so we're so the program is going to roll out with three different levels one is a specialized level the second is an advanced level and then we'll look to that third level again they're anchored in the in the individual certs and so as we look for that entry level it's really all about automation right I mean some things you take for granted but you still need these new skills to be able to automate and scale and have repeatable scalable benefits from that this the second tier will be more cross-domain and that's where we're really thinking that an additional skill set is needed to deliver dashboard experience compliance experiences and then that next level again we'll anchor towards the expert level that's coming out but one thing I want to point out is in addition to just having the certified people on staff they also have to demonstrate that they have a practice around it so it's not just enough to say I've passed an exam as we work with them to roll out the practice and they earn the badge they're demonstrating that they have the full methodology in place so that it really there's a lot behind it that means we can't be in the 500 list then even if a 500 list I don't know that the cube would end up being specialized its advertising no seriously all fun it's all fun it's Cisco live in Europe is there a difference between European and USD seeing any differences in geographic talent you know in the first couple years we did it I think there was a bigger difference it felt like there were different topics that were very popular in the US slightly different in Europe last year and this year I feel like they have converged it's it's the same focus on DevOps automation security as a huge focus in both places and it also feels like the the interest and level of the people attending has also converged it's really similar congratulations been fun to watch the rise and success of Devon it continues to be strong how see in the hub here and the definite zone behind us pact sessions yes what's the biggest surprise for you guys in terms of things that you didn't expect or some of the success what's what's jumped out yeah I think you know one of the points that I want to make sure we also cover and it has been an added benefit we're hoping it would happen we just didn't realize it would happen this soon we're attracting new companies new partners so the specialization won't just be available for our traditional bars this is also available for our non resale and we are finding different companies accessing definite resources and learning these skills so that's been a really great benefit of Deb net overall definitely my favorite surprises are when I show up at the community events and I hear from someone I met last year what the what they went back and did and the change that they drove and they come in their company and I think we're seeing those across the board of people who start a grassroots movement take back some new ideas really create change and then they come back and we get to hear about that from them those are my favorite surprises and I tell you we've known for years how important the developer is but I think the timing on this has been perfect because it is no longer just oh the developer has some tools that they like in the corner the developer connected to the business and driving things forward exactly so perfect timing congratulations on this certification their thing that's been great is that our at Cisco itself we now have API is across the whole portfolio and up and down the stock so that's been a wonderful thing to see come together because it opens up possibilities for all these developers so Cisco's API first company we are building it guys everywhere we can and and that the community is is taking them and finding creative things to build it's been fun to watch you guys change Cisco but also impact customers has been great to watch far many thanks for coming up yeah games live coverage here in Barcelona for Cisco live 20/20 I'm John Ford Dave Dave Alon face to many men we right back with more after this short break [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners hello and welcome back to the cubes live coverage here at Cisco live 20/20 and partial into Spain I'm John first evening men cube coverage we've got a lot of stuff going on with Cisco multi-cloud and cloud technologies of clarification of Cisco's happening in real time is happening right now cloud is here here to stay we got two great guests to unpack what's going on in cloud native and networking and applications as the modern infrastructure and software evolves we got eugene kim global product marketing and compute storage at cisco global part of marketing manager and fabio corey senior director cloud solutions marketing guys great comeback great thanks for coming back appreciate it thanks very much great to see a lot of guys so probably we've had multiple conversations and usually even out from the sales force given kind of the that the discussion and the motivation cloud is big it's here it's here to stay it's changing Cisco API first we hear and all the products it's changing everything what's the story now what's going on I would say you know the reason why we're so excited about the launch here in Barcelona it's because this time it's all about the application experience I mean the last two years we've been announcing some really exciting stuff in the cloud space right think about all the announcements with the AWS the Google's the Azure so the world but this time it really boils down to making sure that is incredibly hyper distributed world well there is an application explosion ultimately we will help for the right operations tools and infrastructure management tools to ensure that the right application experience will be guaranteed for the end customer and that's incredibly important because at the end what really really matters is that you will ensure the best possible digital experience to your customer otherwise ultimately nothing is gonna work and of course you're going to lose your brand and your customers one of the main stories that we're covering is the transformation of the industry also Cisco and one of the highlights to me was the opening keynote you had app dynamics first not networking normally it's like what's under the hood the routers and the gear no it was about the applications this is the story we're seeing it's kind of a quiet unveiling it's not yet a launch but it's evolving very quickly can you share what's going on behind this all this absolutely it's exactly along the lines of what I was saying a second ago in the end that the reason why we're driving the announcement if you want from the application experience side of the house is because without dynamics we already have a very very powerful application performance measurement tool which it's evolving extremely rapidly first of all after Amex can correlate not just the application performance to some technology kpi's but to true actual business KPIs so AB dynamics can give you for instance the real-time visibility of say a marketing funnel conversion rates transactions that you're having in your in your business operation now we're introducing an incredibly powerful new capability that takes the bar to a whole new level and that's the dynamics experience journey Maps what are those it's actually the ability of focusing not so much on front-ends and backends and databases performances but really focusing on what the user is seeing in front of his or her screen and so what really matters is capturing the journey that a given user of your application is is being and understanding whether the experience is the one that you want to deliver oh you have like a sudden drop of somewhere and you know why that is important because in the end we've been talking about is it a problem of the application performance user performance well it could be a badly designed page how do you know and so this is a very precious information is that were giving to application developers not just to the IT ops guys that is incredibly precious to get this in so you just brought up that journey so that's part of the news so just break down real quick one minute yeah what the news is yeah so we have three components the first one as you as you correctly pointed out is really introduction the application journey Maps right the experience journey Maps that's very very important the second is we are actually integrating after am it's with the inter-site action inter-site optimization manager the workload team is a workload promisor and so because there is a change of data between the two now you are in a position to immediately understand whether you have an application problem we have a workload problem or infrastructure problem which is ultimate what you really need to do as quickly as you can and thirdly we have introduced a new version of our hyper flex platform which is hyper-converged flat G flat for Cisco with a fully containerized version we tax free if you want as well there is a great platform for containerized application of parameter so you teen when I've been talking to customers last few years when they go through their transformational journey there's the modernization they need to do the patterns I've seen most successful is first you modernize the platform often HCI is you know and often for that it really simplifies the environment you know reduces the silos and has more of that operational model that looks closer to what the cloud experience is and then if I've got a good platform then I can modernize the applications on top of it but often those two have been a little bit disconnected it feels like the announcements now that they are coming together what are you seeing what are you hearing how is your solution set solving this issue yeah exactly I mean as we've been talking to our customers love them are going through different application modernisations and kubernetes and containers is extremely important to them and to build a container cloud on Prem is extremely one of their needs and so there's three distinctive requirements that they've kind of talked to us about a lot of it has to be able to it's got to be very simple very turnkey and a fully integrated ready to turn on the other one is something that's very agile right very DevOps friendly and the third being a very economic container cloud on Prem as far we mentioned high flex application platform takes our hyper-converged system and builds on top of it a integrated kubernetes platform to deliver a container as a service type capability and it provides a full stack fully supported element platform for our customers and the one of the best great aspects of is that's all managed from inside from the physical infrastructure to the hyper-converged layer to all the way to the container management so it's very exciting to have that full stack management and insight as well yeah it's great to you know John and I have been following this kubernetes wave you know since the early early days Fabio mentioned integrations with the Amazons and Google's the world because you know a few years ago you talked to customers and they're like oh well I'm just gonna build my own urbanity right back nobody ever said that is easy now just delivering at his service seems to be the way most people wanted so if I'm doing it on Amazon or Google they've got their manage service that I could do that or that they're through partners they're working with so explain what you're doing to make it simpler in the data center environment because I'm tram absolutely is a piece of that hybrid equation the customers need yes so essentially from the customer experience perspective as I mentioned it's very fairly turnkey right from the hyper flicks application platform we're taking our hyper grew software we're integrating a application virtualization layer on top of it Linux KVM based and then on top of that we're integrating the kubernetes stack on top as well and so in essence right it's a fully curated kubernetes stack right it has all the different elements from the networking from the storage elements and and providing that in a very turnkey way and as I mentioned the inner site management is really providing that simplicity that customers need for that management ok Fabio this the previous announcement you've made with the public clouds yeah this just ties into those hybrid environments that's exactly you know a few years ago people like oh is there gonna be a distribution that wins in kubernetes we don't think that's the answer but still I can't just move between kubernetes you know seamlessly yet but this is moving towards that direction so a lot of customers want to have a very simple implementation at the same time they want of course a multi cloud approach and I really care about you know marking the difference between you know multi-cloud hybrid cloud there's been a lot of confusion but if you think about it multi cloud is really rooted into the business need of harnessing innovation from whatever it comes from you know the different clouds PV different things and you know what they do today tomorrow it could even change so people want option maladie so they want a very simple implementation that's integrated with public cloud providers that simplifies their life in terms of networking security and application of workload management and we've been executing towards that goal to fundamentally simplify the operations of these pretty complex kind of hybrid environments I want you to nail that operations on ibrid that's where multi cloud comes in absolutely just a connection point absolutely you're not a shitty mice no isn't a shit so in order to fulfill your business like your I know business needs you then you have a hybrid problem and you want to really kind of have a consistent production rate environment between fins on Prem that you own and control versus things that you use and you want to control better now of course there are different school of thoughts but most of the customers who are speaking with really want to expand their governance and technology model right to the cloud as opposed to absorb in different ways of doing things from each and every clock I want to unpack a little bit of what you said earlier about the knowing where the problem is because a lot of times it's a point the finger at the other first and where's it's the application problem isn't a problem so I want to get into that but first I want to understand the hyper flex application platform Eugene if you could just share the main problem that you guys saw what did some of the pain points that customers had what problems does the AP solve yeah as I mentioned it's really the platform for our customers to modernize their applications on right and it addresses those things that they're looking for as far as the economics right really the ability to provide a full stack container experience without having to you know but you know bringing any third party hypervisor licenses as well as support cost so that's fully integrated there you have your integrated hyper-converged storage capability you have the cloud-based management and that's really developing you providing that developer DevOps simplicity from the data Julie that they're looking for internally as well as for their product production environments and then the other aspect is its simplicity to be able to manage all this right in the entire lifecycle management as well so it's the operational side of the whole yeah uncovers Papio on the application side where the problem is because this is where I'm a little bit skeptical you know normally rightfully so but I can see in a problem where it's like whose fault is it gasification is problem or the network I mean it runs into more serious workloads the banking app that's having trouble how do you know where it what the problem is and how do you solve that problem what what's going on for that specific issue absolutely and you know the name of the game here is breaking down this operational side right and I love what our app dynamics VP GM Danny winoker said you know it has this terminology beast DevOps which you know may sound like an interesting acrobatics but it's absolutely true the business has to be part of this operational kind of innovation because as you said you know developer edges you know drops their containers and their code to the IET ops team but you don't really know whether the problem a certain point is gonna be in the code or in how the application is actually deployed or maybe a server that doesn't have enough CPU so in the end it boils down to one very important thing you have to have visibility inside and take action and every layer of the stack I mean instrumentation absolutely there are players that only do it in their software overlay domain the problem is very often these kind of players assume that underneath links are fine and very often they're not so in the end this visibility inside inaction is the loop that everybody is going after these days to really get to the next if you want generational operation where you gotta have a constant feedback loop and making it more faster and faster because in the end you can only win in the marketplace right regardless of your IT ops if you're faster than your competitor well still still was questioning the GM of AppDynamics running observability and he's like no it's not to feature it's everywhere so he his comment was yeah but serve abilities don't really talk about it because it's big din do you agree with that absolutely it has to be at every layer of the stack and only if you have visibility inside an action through the entire stack from the software all the way to the infrastructure level that you can solve the problem otherwise the finger-pointing quote-unquote will continue and you will not be able to gain the speed that you need okay so the question on my mind I want to get both of you guys can weigh in on this is that you look at Cisco as a company you got a lot going on I mean a guy's huge customer base core routers - no applications there's a lot going on a lot of a lot of complexity you got IOT security Ramirez talked about that you got the WebEx rooms got totally popular it's kind of got a lot of glam to it having the WebEx kind of you know I guess what virtual presence was yeah telepresence kind of model and then you get cloud is there a mind share within the company around how cloud is baked into everything because you can't do IOT edge without having some sort of cloud operational things so there's stuff you're talking about is not just a division it's kind of gonna it's kind of threads everywhere across Cisco what's the what's the mind share right now within the Cisco teams and also customers around clarification well I would say it's it's a couple of dimension the first one is the cloud is one of the critical domains of this multi domain architecture that of course is the cornerstone of Cisco's technology strategy right if you think about it it's all about connecting users to applications wherever they are and not just the user the applications themselves like if you look at the latest stats from IDC 58% of workloads is heading to the public cloud and to the edge it's like the data center is literally exploding in many different directions so you have this highly distributed kind of fabric guess what sits in between all these applications and microservices is a secure network and that's exactly what we're executing upon now that's the first kind of consideration the second is if you look at the other silver line most of the Cisco technology innovation is also going a direction of absorbing cloud as a simplified way of managing all the components or the infrastructure you look at the IP flex ap is actually managed by inter site which is a SAS kind of component this journey started a long time ago with Cisco Meraki and then of course we have SAS properties like WebEx everything else is kind of absolutely migrants reporter we've been reporting eugen that from years ago we saw the movement where api's are starting to come in when you go back five years ago not a lot of the gear and stuff at Cisco had api's now you got api's building into all the new products that's right you see the software shift with you know you know intent-based networking to AppDynamics it's interesting it's you're seeing kind of this agile mindset this is some of you and I talk about all the time but agile now is the new model is it ready for customers I mean the normal Enterprise is still got the infrastructure and application it's separated okay how do I bring it together what are you guys seeing the customer base what's going on with with not that not the early adopters heavy-duty hardcore pioneers out there but you know the the general mainstream enterprise are they there yet have they had that moment of awakening yeah I mean I think they they are there because fundamentally it's all about that ensuring that application experience and you can only ensure that application experience right by having your application teams and your structure teams work together and that's what's exciting you mentioned the API is and what we've done there with AppDynamics integrating with inter-site workload optimizer as Fabio mentioned it's all about visibility inside action and what app dynamics is provides providing that business and end-user application performance experience visibility inner sites giving you know visibility on the underlining workload and the resources whether it's on Prem in your you know drive data center environment or in different type of cloud providers so you get that full stack visibility right from the application all the way down to the bottom and then inner side local optimizer is then also optimizing the resources to proactively ensure that application experience so before you know if we talk about someone at a checkout and they're about to have abandonment because the functions not working we're able to proactively prevent that and take a look at all that so you know in the end I think it's all about ensuring that application experience and what we're providing with app dynamics is for the application team is kind of that horizontal visibility of how that application is performing and at the same time if there's an issue the infrastructure team could see exactly within the workload topology where the issue is and insert' aeneas lee whether it be manual intervention or even automatically there's or a ops capability go ahead and provide that action so the action could be you know scaling out the VMS it's on-prem or looking at a new different type of ec2 template in the cloud that's what's very exciting about this it's really the application experience is now driving and optimizing infrastructure in real time and let me flip your question like do you even have a choice John when you think about in the next two years 50% more applications if you're a large enterprise you have 5 to 7,000 apps you have another to 3,000 applications just coming into into the the frame and then 50% of the existing ones that are gonna be refactor lifted and shifted or replace or retired by SAS application it's just like it's tsunami that's that's coming on you and oh by the way because of again the micro service is kind of affect the number of dependencies between all these applications is growing incredibly rapidly like last year we were eight average interdependencies for applications now we are 20 so imaging imaging what happens as as you are literally flooded with the way the scanner really you have to ensure that your application infrastructure fundamentally will get tied up as quickly as you can still and I have been toilet for at least five years now if not longer the networking has been the key kind of last changeover - clarification and I would agree with you guys I think I've asked the question because I wanted to get your perspective but think about it it's 13 years since the iPhone so mobile has shown people that a mobile app can change business but now if you look at the pressure the network's bringing the pressure on the network or the pressure for the network to be better than programmable is the rise of video and data I mean so you got mobile check now you've got video I mean more people doing video now than ever before videos of consumer oil as streaming you got data these two things absolutely forced yeah the customers to deal with it but what really tipped the the balance John is is actually the SAS effect is the cloud effect because as you know it's in IT sort of inflection points nothing is linear right so once you reach a certain critical mass of cloud apps and we're absolutely there already all of a sudden you're traffic pattern on your network changes dramatically so why in the world are you continuing kind of you know concentrating all of your traffic in your data center and then going to the internet you have to absolutely open the floodgates at the branch level as close to the users as possible and that implies a radical change I would even add to that and I think you guys are right on where you guys are going it may be hard to kind of tease out with all the complexity with Cisco but in the keynote the business model shifts come from SAS so you got all this technical stuff going on now you have this Asif ocation or cloud that's changes the business models so new entrants can come in and existing players can get better so I think that whole business model conversation yeah never was discussed at Cisco live before yeah in depth as well hey run your business connect your hubs campus move packets around that was applications in business model yeah but also the fact that there is increasing number of software capabilities and so fundamental you want to simplify the life of your customers through subscription models that help the customer by now using what they really need right at any given point in time all the way to having enterprise agreements I also think that's about delivering these application experiences for your business small different type experience that's really what's differentiating you from your different competitors right and so I think that's a different type of shift as well well you guys are good got some good angle on this cloud I love it I got to ask you the question what can we expect next from Cisco more progression along clarification what's next well I would say we've been incredibly consistent I believe in the last few years in executing on our cloud strategy which again is centered around helping customers really gluon this mix set of data centers and clouds to make it work as one write as much as possible and so what we really deliver is networking security and application of performance management and we're integrating there's more and more on the two sides of the equation right the the designer side and the powerful outside and more more integrating in between all of these layers again to fundamentally give you this operational capability to get faster and faster we'll continue doing so and you set up before we came on camera that you were talking to the sales teams what are they what's their vibe with the sales team they get excited by this what's that oh yeah feedback oh yeah absolutely from the inner side were claw optimizer and they have dynamics that's very exciting for them especially the conversations they're having with their customers really from that application experience and proactively insuring it and on the hyper flex application platform side this is extremely exciting with providing a container cloud to our customers and you know what's coming down is more and more capabilities for our customers to modernize their applications on hyper flex you guys are riding some pretty big waves here at Cisco I get a cloud way to get the IOT Security wave it's pretty exciting pretty big stuff thanks for coming in thanks for sharing the insights Fabio I appreciate it thank you for having us your coverage here in Barcelona I'm John Force dude Minutemen be back with more coverage fourth day of four days of cube coverage we right back after this short break [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] why Trump Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back to Barcelona everybody we're here at Cisco live and you're watching the cube the leader in live tech coverage we got to the events and extract the signal from the noise this is day one really we started a zero yesterday Eric Hertzog is here he's the CMO and vice president of storage channels probably been on the cube more than [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back everyone's two cubes live coverage day four of four days of wall-to-wall action here in Barcelona Spain Francisco live 2020 I'm John Ferrier with mykos Dave Volante with a very special guest here to wrap up Cisco live the president of Europe Middle East Africa and Russia Francisco Wendy Mars cube alumni great to see you thanks for coming on to kind of put a bookend to the show here thanks for joining us right there it's absolutely great to be here thank you so what a transformation as Cisco's business model of continues to evolve we've been saying brick by brick we still think is a big move coming I think there's more action I can sense the walls talking to us like let's just go live in the US and more technical announcements in the next 24 months you can see you can see where it's going it's cloud its apps yeah its policy based program ability it's really a whole nother business model shift for you and your customers the technology shift and the business model shift so I want to get your perspective of this year opening key no you let it off talking about the philosophy of the business model but also the first presenter was not a networking guy it was an application person yeah app dynamics yep this is a shift what's going on with Cisco what's happening what's the story well you know if you look for all of the work that we're doing is but is really driven by what we see from requirements from our customers the change that's happening in the market and it is all around you know if you think digital transformation is the driver organizations now are incredibly interested in how do they capture that opportunity how do they use technology to help them but you know if you look at it really there's the three items that are so important it's the business model evolution it's actually the business operations for for organisations plus their people there are people in the communities within that those three things working together and if you look at it with you know it's so exciting with application dynamics there because if you look for us within Cisco that linkage of the application layer through into the infrastructure into the network and bringing that linkage together is the most powerful thing because that's the insight and the value our customers are looking for you know we've been talking about the in the innovation sandwich you know you got you know date in the middle and you got technology and applications underneath that's kind of what's going on here but you I'm glad you brought up the year the part about business model business operations and people in communities because during your keno you had a slide that laid out three kind of pillars yes people in communities business model and business operations there was no 800 series in there there was no product discussions this is fundamentally the big shift that business models are changing I tweeted provocatively the killer app and digital the business model because you think about it the applications are the business and what's running under the covers is the technology but it's all shifting and changing so every single vertical every single business is impacted by this it's not like a certain secular thing in the industry this is a real change can you describe how those three things are operating with that constitute think if you look from you know so thinking through those three areas if you look at the actual business model itself our business models as organizations are fundamentally changing and they're changing towards as consumers we are all much more specific about what we want we have incredible choice in the market we are more informed than ever before but also we are interested in the values of the organizations that were getting the capability from as well as the products and the services that naturally we're looking to gain so if you look in that business model itself this is about you know organizations making sure they stay ahead from a competitive standpoint about the innovation of portfolio that they're able to bring but also that they have a strong strong focus around the experience that their customer gains from an application a touch standpoint that all comes through those different channels which is at the end of the day the application then if you look as to how do you deliver that capability through the systems the tools and the processes as we all evolve our businesses you have to change the dynamic within your organization to cope with that and then of course in driving any transformation the critical success factor is your people and your culture you need your teams with you the way teams operate now is incredibly different it's no longer command and control its agile capability coming together you need that to deliver on any transformation never never mind let it be smooth you know in the execution there so it's all three together what I like about that model and I have to say we this is you know ten years to do in the cube you you see that marketing in the vendor community often leads what actually happens not surprising as we entered the last decade it was a lot of talk about cloud well it kind of was a good predictor we heard a lot about digital transformations a lot of people roll their eyes and think it's a buzzword but we really are I feel like an exiting this cloud era into the digital era it feels real and there are companies that you know get it and are leaning in there are others that maybe you're complacent I'm wondering what you're seeing in in Europe just in terms of everybody talks digital yeah be CEO wants to get it right but there is complacency there when it's a services say well I'm doing pretty well not on my watch others say hey we want to be the disruptors and not get disrupted what are you seeing in the region in terms of that sentiment I would say across the region you know there will always be verticals and industries that are slightly more advanced than others but I would say that then the bulk of conversations that I'm engaged in independence of the industry or the country in which we're having that conversation in there is a acceptance of transfer digital transformation is here it is affecting my business i if I don't disrupt I myself will be disrupted and be challenged help me so I you know I'm not disputing the end state I need guidance and support to drive the transition and a risk mythic mitigated manner and they're looking for help in that and there's actually pressure in the boardroom now around a what are we doing within within organizations within that enterprise the service right of the public said to any type of style of company there's that pressure point in the boardroom of come on we need to move it speed now the other thing about your model is technology plays a role in contribute it's not the be-all end-all but plays a role in each of those the business model of business operations and developing and nurturing communities can you add more specifics what role do you see technology in terms of advancing those three spheres so I think you know if you look at it technology is fundamental to all of those spheres in regard to the innovation the differentiation technology can bring then the key challenges one of being able to reply us in a manner where you can really see differentiation of value within the business so in then the customers organization otherwise it's just technology for the sake of technology so we see very much a movement now to this conversation of talk about the use case the use cases the way by which that innovation can be used to deliver the value to the organization and also different ways by which a company will work look at the collaboration capability that we announced earlier this week of helping to bring to life that agility look at the app D discussion of helping to link the layer of the application into the infrastructure the network's to get to root cause identification quickly and to understand where you may have a problem before you thought it actually arises and causes downtime many many ways I think the agility message has always been a technical conversation a gel methodology technology software development no problem check that's ten years ago but business agility mmm it's moving from a buzzword to reality exactly that's what you're kind of getting in here and teams how teams operate how they work you know and being able to be quick efficient stand up stand down and operate in that way you know we were kind of thinking out loud on the cube and just riffing with Fabio gory on your team on Cisco's team about clarification with Eugene Kim around just just kind of real-time what was interesting is we're like okay it's been 13 years since the iPhone and so 13 years of mobile in your territory in Europe Middle East Africa mobilities been around before the iPhone so with in more advanced data privacy much more advanced in your region so you got you out you have a region that's pretty much I think the tell signs for what's going on in North America and around the world and so you think about that you say okay how is value created how the economics changing this is really the conversation about the business model is okay if the value activities are shifting and be more agile and the economics are changing with sass if someone's not on this bandwagon it's not an in-state discussion where it's done deal yeah it's but I think also there were some other conversation which which are very prevalent here is in in the region so around trust around privacy law understanding compliance you look at data where data resides portability of that data GDP are came from Europe you know and as ban is pushed out and those conversations will continue as we go over time and if I also look at you know the dialogue that you saw so you know within World Economic Forum around sustainability that is becoming a key discussion now within government here in Spain you know from a climate standpoint and many other areas as well Dave and I've been riffing around this whole where the innovation is coming from it's coming from Europe region not so much the u.s. I mean us discuss some crazy innovations but look at blockchain us is like don't touch it pretty progressive outside United States little bit dangerous to but that's where innovation is coming from and this is really the key that we're focused on I want to get your thoughts on how do you see it going next level the next level next-gen business model what's your what's your vision so I think there'll be lots of things if we look at things like with the introduction of artificial intelligence robotics capability 5g of course you know on the horizon we have Mobile World Congress here in Barcelona in a few weeks time and if you talked about with the iPhone the smartphone of course when 4G was introduced no one knew what the use case would that would be it was the smartphone which wasn't around at that time so with 5g in the capability there that will bring again yet more change to the business model for different organizations and the capability and what we can bring to market when we think about AI privacy data ownership becomes more important some of the things you were talking about before it's interesting what you're saying John and when the the GDP are set the standard and and you see in the u.s. there are stovepipes for that standard California is going to do one every state is going to have a different center that's going to slow things down that's going to slow down progress do you see sort of an extension of a GDP are like framework of being adopted across the region and that potentially you know accelerating some of these you know sticky issues and public policy issues that can actually move the market forward I think I think the will because I think there'll be more and more you know if you look at there's this terminology of data is the new oil what do you do with data how do you actually get value from that data and make intelligent business decisions around that so you know that's critical but yet if you look for all of ours we are extremely passionate about you know where is our data used again back to trust and privacy you need compliance you need regulation you know I think this is just the beginning of how we will see that evolve you know when do I get your thoughts does Dave and I have been riffing for 10 years around the death of storage long live storage and but data needs to be stored somewhere networking is the same kind of conversation just doesn't go away in fact there's more pressure now forget the smartphone that was 13 years ago before that mobility data and video now super important driver that's putting more pressure on you guys and so hey we're networking so it's kind of like Moore's law it's like more networking more networking so video and data are now big your thoughts on video and data video but if you look at the Internet of the future you know what so if you look for all of us now we are also demanding as individuals around capability and access to that and inter vetted the future the next phase we want even more so there'll be more and more - you know requirement for speed availability that reliability of service the way by which we engage and we communicate there's some fundamentals there so continuing to to grow which is which is so so exciting for us so you talk about digital transformation that's obviously in the mind of c-level executives I got to believe security is up there as a topic what other what's the conversation like in the corner office when you go visit your customers so I think that there's a huge excitement around the opportunity realizing the value of the of the opportunity you know if you look at top of mind conversations are around security around making sure that you can make tank maintain that fantastic customer experience because if you don't the custom will go elsewhere how do you do that how do you enrich at all times and also looking at markets adjacencies you know as you go in and you talk at senior levels within within organizations independent of the industry in which they're in there are a huge amount of commonalities that we see across those of consistent problems by which organizations are trying to solve and actually one of the big questions is what's the pace of change that I should operate at and when is it too fast and when is what am I too slow and trying to balance that is exciting but also a challenge for companies so you feel like sentiment is still strong even though we're 10 years into this this bull market you know you got Briggs it you get you know China tensions with the US u.s. elections but but generally you see Tennessee sentiment still pretty strong and demand so I would say that the the excitement around technology the opportunity that is there around technology in its broadest sense is greater than ever before and I think it's on all of us to be able to help organizations to understand how they can consume I see value from us but it's you know it's fantastic science it tastes trying to get some economic indicators but really the real thing I'm trying to get you is Minh set of the CEO the corner office right now is it is it we're gonna we're gonna grow short-term by cutting or do we do are we gonna be aggressive and go after this incremental opportunity and it's probably both you're seeing a lot of automation yeah and I think if you look fundamentally for organizations it's it's that the three things helped me to make money how me to save money keep me out of trouble you know so those are the pivots they all operate with and you know depending on where an organization is in its journey whether a start-up there you know in in the in the mid or the more mature and some of the different dynamics and the markets in which they operate in as well there's all different variables you know so it's it's it's mix Wendy thanks so much for spending the time to come on the cube really appreciate great keynote folks watching if you haven't seen the keynote opening sections that's a good section the business model I think it's really right on I think that's going to be a conversation it's going to continue thanks for sharing that before we look before we leave I want to just ask you a question around what you what's going on for you here at Barcelona as the show winds down you had all your activities take us in the day of the life of what you do customer meetings what were some of those conversations take us inside inside what what goes on for you here well I'd say it's been an amazing it's been an amazing few days so it's a combination of customer conversations around some of the themes we just talked about conversations with partners and there's investor companies that we invest in a Cisco that I've been spending some time with and also you know spending time with the teams as well the DEF net zone you know is amazing we have this afternoon the closing session where we've got a fantastic external guest who's coming in it's going to be really exciting as well and then of course the party tonight and we'll be announcing the next location which I'm not gonna reveal now later on today we kind of figured it out already because that's our job and there's the break news but we're not gonna break it for you you can have that hey thank you so much for coming on really appreciate Wendy Martin expecting the Europe Middle East Africa and Russia for Cisco she's got our hand on the pulse and the future is the business model that's what's going on fundamental radical change across the board in all areas this the cue bringing you all the action here in Barcelona thanks for watching [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music]

live from Las Vegas it's the queue covering del technology's world 2019 brought to you by Dell technologies and it's ecosystem partners hey welcome back everyone cubes live coverage day three of three days of wall-to-wall coverage got two sets exploding the content out there the cube can and we've been calling it so much content coming in I'm John Fourier your host with mykos de Villante we're Tom sweet is the CFO of Dell Technologies he's the man who's making it all happen all the numbers are starting to come in we're starting to see some real big numbers and more welcome to the Q thanks for spending the time hey I'm happy to be here it's great to see you guys again and it's been a great three days here at Deltek world so I'm very excited about what we're seeing all of the enthusiasm by with our customers and partners and the receptivity to what we're doing as a company and the capabilities we're driving is pretty exciting it's kind of like the postgame show I guess the show's going to end today but I've been watching you and the analysts giving all the presentations you're what we call a Czech athlete you got a you got to hold the ship down make the numbers work you got a lot of great puzzle pieces that you know you guys have laid out here at the show across the portfolio aggressive new architecture around end-to-end operations a lot of moving parts being integrated in and the numbers are looking really good a scoreboard looks good give it take us through the highlights of inside the numbers up into the right give us the highlights well you know thank you for that but it's been we had a great fiscal 19 as you guys know by now right so 90 over 91 billion dollars of non-gaap revenue we added 11 billion dollars of revenue in the year or so if you think about that that's the equivalent of a couple of Fortune 500 companies coming into the company you know took share in all the categories that were focused on you know we took over 320 basis points of share and storage I mean over 200 basis points of share and main stream server revenue you know our PC client commercial clients you took over I think a couple hundred basis points this year so we're very pleased with the progress but I think what's most exciting as we think about value creation we're headed as a company is some of the things that we announced this week around the cloud platform and what you're beginning to see is the fill in of the capabilities and the tie together of the companies that are coming together with integrated solutions and capabilities and so you know I've been with the analyst and as you referenced and they had lots of good questions on how does this all fit together how does it then what's the acceleration point if you will how does this take off from here and you know so work and so we went through that in terms of let's put the platform out there let's begin to build on it you know customers are asking for that multi cloud capability this is what this does for them it ties this together and one single pane of glass from an orchestration and management perspective so we're really excited and then you know you saw Jeff introduce a bunch of new products the new latitude line some of the new server capabilities new storage arrays that are coming and so you know customer the buzz here is pretty strong so it's been pretty exciting this we congratulations on just a shareholder value I know from a numbers standpoint it's really been successful congratulations the question I want to ask you going back I remember the conversation you know HPE got smaller HP Enterprise got smaller Dell was getting bigger and the conversation at that time was scale as a competitive advantage and we were talking about how cloud was showing the way that scale actually has these synergies as you look back now and as the evolution started you guys start executing we was the the first sign of wow this is gonna be awesome well probably Michael was more optimistic about it than I was figure out how to pay for it come on that's a lot of money you know so but look I mean I think what we saw when we when we came together as with Dell and EMC was the fact that he come we needed each other right we had capabilities that didn't overlap they gave us great presence and technology in the data center and clearly they have brought VMware and pivotal with them we brought scale we brought maybe an execution framework and a focus and the combination of the has been pretty powerful and look I mean it's taken a couple of years of heavy lifting right but and we're not done and there's lots to go do but I think we're pretty excited about how this started to accelerate on us you know or pick up momentum I should say you know middle last year does it margin expansion or is it to go to market efficiency or supply chain all three I think it's all three right if you listen to us over the last couple years we talked about hey we needed to invest we had to invest in new capabilities from a solution perspective we had to invest in go to market coverage you know so we've spent a fair amount of investment dollars putting you know putting the pieces in place and so then it takes time for that to come together and coalesce and I think we're early innings on that you know you know lots of competition out there but we're excited about the positioning right now so the numbers are pretty remarkable I mean to be a 90 billion dollar company growing it you know 14 percent it's pretty amazing however you know this if you take VMware's market cap to multiply it by 0.8 which is your share subtract out your core debt you know subtract out your market cap you're left with like a billion dollars is that really how we should think about the core Danelle is worth about about a billion dollars you know it's you're now getting to where I spent all my last year talking about valuation right but look I we obviously think differently about the value of the core company you just think about free cash flow coming out of the core which is over you know two and a half to three and a half billion dollars sort of three and a half billion dollar range I mean how quo the valuation framework in some instances doesn't make a lot of sense we understand that you know we're a large-scale tech company and tech investors in general haven't been you know exposed to companies with tech companies with a lot of debt right and we have more debt than the average I think it's very manageable because what's the opposite side of of you know the other side of the conversation on debt is what your EBIT are right so you think about moldable and and so look we think look I can't art I can't win those arguments as you know right around I think what we have to do is continue to go execute the business over time and I think you've you know that will demonstrate the value creation opportunity that exists here and you know people will decide whether they want to invest in us and come along with it or not well I've said it's a really cheap way to own VMware I mean if you really look at no way don't do the EM we're so there is that play one of the things that I've been really impressed with this week is your emphasis on growth but profitable growth you're not just going for market share for market share sake you got but but you are going hard for market share it's an interesting balance how do you balance those two oh it's sort of this constant juggle right because look I mean you think about where we compete PC server external storage we can talk Software Defined and some of the other dynamics that are going on but those mark those areas are generally not double-digit growth areas right and so if you're going to grow you're generally taking share from somebody right and so we had this philosophy in these types of areas we got to grow and it's got to be profitable to your point and in these spaces you can go out and get a lot of market share that's doable but you can also spend a lot of money doing that right you can you can rent share so to speak if you want it and so there's this balance of pushing the team's on go grow I want it to be the right kind of growth which means what does that mean it means you go acquire customers that have a value stream associated with them and yes you may be aggressive to go get them but over time you build that cape you build the ecosystem around them in terms of the other solutions and capabilities they're buying and so it's this constant balance you know and so that's what we're we're trying to make sure we get right if you will yeah one more CFL question if I may and then we can talk about more fun stuff so it talks about the debt yeah I think you got that covered you've managing that very well you know we talked about the valuation fine one of the areas that that I have some concerns about I'd like your responses just the PC business itself it's a very important business for you guys yeah it's it's about half the revenue maybe it's not as profitable we know that but it also absorbs a lot of overhead of the company so big shifts in that business would have tectonic effects I would think on your business how do you think about that how do you manage that I wonder if I haven't heard much talk about that and I just wonder if you could you know educate CSG business which is our PC business we've got forty three billion dollar business last year so you're right it provides us great scale by the way and great supply chain scale but if you if you think about what's driving the PC Renaissance right now there's a Windows 10 refresh going on as you both know and you know Microsoft's estimate would be hey you got to probably another year or so that left and then you got through most of that refresh cycle and then the question I always get to your point is what's next yeah and then I'm good some let me pivot the conversation which is if you think about what's next is the feedback we're now getting when you think about the workforce and the generation that's in the workforce now wants good technology and so the days of let me give all of my employees and team members these $400 $500 thick pcs that wait eight nine ten pounds are gone companies want employees want technology that they can carry that they like that's usable you know the whole flexible workforce dynamic and so there's a whole conversation around workforce transformation that's happening the other thing is you you hear us talk about edge to quarter cloud that edge computing dynamic which is will include both data you know infrastructure and hard PC hardware at the edges an interesting dynamic so we think the evolution continues to evolve and the PC business stays healthy for us but yes you're right it's a big business but it's a great cash flow built at the same time if that if John if that edge becomes a tailwind for you guys I mean essentially there's an oligopoly Michael Michael is all Michael was saying the edges where the games going to be in ten years I would just iterate add one thing to your comment about the client businesses I think one i 100% agree I think the Alienware booth here is a canary in the coal mine if you talk to any of the younger generation gamers they have this phrase called pcmr which stands for PC master-race there's a shift back to the PC because of gaming mm-hm and they all want their rigs and they want horsepower they're into the tap yeah so the ease of use and simplifying the tech they want the best graph they want rate racing they want I mean they want all these new things so I think there's a whole nother generation to your point anyway back to my question on this a business model issue is that Michaels on yesterday said we're not in the headline in Silicon angle right now says we're not a conglomerate Michael Dell savers the integrated pieces of his growing company so I gotta ask you you know in in the intersection of innovation strategy business model innovation and financial and strategy you gotta have a financial strategy at overlays innovation strategy as well as the business model how would you describe the financial strategy of Dell technologies and how does that overlay directly on top of the innovation strategy and the business model look alright smile to man job is to help Michael to build his vision and fulfill his vision the subset of that is what's the job of a what what does a company do it's all about creating value and shareholder value so the overall a financial strategy and framework is shareholder value creation right and you step down from that you say how do you create value you create value these would be better capabilities better products and solutions how do you do that then you get into a capital allocation conversation on how much am I going to allocate of my capital to innovation to R&D how much a value creation is going to come through debt pay down to your point you know if you look at the levers we're pulling right now and how and simplified capital structures I should also say so the leaveners we're pulling right now are all those levers right we're pulling a let me build the innovation the integrated capabilities this concept of it we've got great capabilities across the family of Dell technologies how do we integrate them how do I create solutions that you customers want at the same point in time I'm pricing those effectively I'm creating cash generation that allows me to reinvest in the business and also pay down debt that ultimately drives shareholder value right yeah and this conglomerate come I thought was relevant because I don't see you as a conglomerate if you look at the success of say Amazon Web Services as part of Amazon almost half their revenues now that's one large distributed computer basically I mean it's integrated parts of a lot of things as an operating environment operating system so you've said on the cube that is a model you guys have a similar approach you're looking at the holistic picture of Dell technologies as an operating model with synergies and systems not this divisions pumping out all this cash they're siloed it's the integrations of key part comment on that piece yeah look I mean you know I've we've been we've been having this pushing on this conglomerate thing now for awhile right in the sense up we've got certain investors in certain analysts and that think about well you've got all these piece parts in you but these piece parts don't run independently they're integrated what we're using joint selling activity joint solution capability and development to sell to we sell technology right I'm not selling engines and lightbulbs and appliances right I'm selling technology to a set of buyers that are consuming that technology in an integrated fashion and that's how we're going to market and that's how we're building solutions to them and so look we're gonna you're going to continue to hear us push on that theme because I think it's an important theme that people need to understand about what we're trying to do but you know and so work that drives evaluation conversation which has been you know Andy jassie CEO of Amazon told me once on the queue you gotta be able to myth being misunderstood for a while before people figure it out but what's your free cash flow down to three billion you're throwing off what's the number there a lot of cash yeah I mean you're you're it's higher than that but when you throw in VMware thrown beware your your cash flow from ops is roughly riding around seven billion dollars right so you can't go on a business if you don't run out of cash all right that's why we talk about cash no word we're good but you know we're also thing about cash right so look I mean I think we're just going to continue to run the business right we've got to go execute the business it's a challenging you know it's always a competitive environment out there but you know that's our job is to go execute the business macro questions so I think I heard from you Tom this week that IDC has the IT market growing at 2x GDP and I'm thinking about the same hmm how is that you know are people gonna start spending more on AI technology as a percentage of revenue maybe but then I'm thinking what they're spending a lot today on labor yeah and I think what's happening is they're shifting a lot of those labor into technology and they're eliminating some of those labor costs and with that shift is that a plausible premise yeah I think I think it is but I also think that companies are thinking about their business model now and you've seen and you guys know this you're in the middle of all this you've seen a generational shift on IT used to be in the background that said hey go you know go roll up the numbers and pay the people and Peyton you know pay the bills and don't think about the business you know that's a simplification but now it's about how is technology used to differentiate my business model to capture new customers to give you a new experience to give you a competitive advantage and what's interesting for us is that these conversations are not just with CIOs there were Co CF CEO CFOs and so this investment cycle that's here is pretty interesting for us right and so look you asked me about the macro you know it's not a year ago what were we all talking about global synchronous growth right remember that a course we're not really talking about that right now there's you know there's pressure points around the globe depending upon where you are and and it's just a different environment so it is a bit choppier out there I mean I think the macro thing is to me is yeah I'm not as in the weeds as much you guys are but you got consolidation value creation and you guys saw with that big plan and then you got an exploding data ai business happening in the marketplace that's showing customers that they could actually reinvest and do new things drive new revenue source model expansions on the customer side as well as a massive tailwind of course cloud computing you could do it faster so between all these things that's a nice pop for you guys well the technology trends are clearly headed our way right you know there's data being created everywhere you got to do something with that data you got to store it you got to compute it if you want to get analytics and insight and so all of these things are sort of lining up now look I don't want to oversell that because we all know this this business is you know you got to go out and compete every day and to win but it's it's an interesting time are you increasing your spend on technology as a percentage of revenue or you know you know if you're talking about the R&D spend it's rough about four-and-a-half percent of my revenue right now so his revenues going up we're spending more money in IIT oh okay and might in my own tech we're up we're up right as a percentage yes okay digital transformation your premise is people are going to spend more as a percentage on tech because the return is higher but being a good CFO I'm also squeezing my guys in other you keep them in line right congratulations again on you your team Michael creating great shareholder value I still Dave still thinks it's undervalued he'll continue and I think he's right on that thanks for coming on spend your very valuable time sharing this summary of what's going on here at the Dell technology world thanks for being here guys and it's always fun to talk to you thanks great car tops we CFO chief financial officer of Dell technologies getting inside the numbers talking about the strategy how it all relates to customer impacts the cue bringing you all the action day three of coverage we'll be right back after this short break I'm sure for a devil on thing [Music]

live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California it's the queue covering Devon that create 2018 brought to you by Cisco okay welcome back everyone we're live here in Silicon Valley in Mountain View California it's keeps coverage dev net create here I'm John Firth mykos Lauren Cooney and next is Louie Louis froyo Technical Evangelist an IBM good to see you again thank you for having me Lauren ketchup IBM love to think shirt welcome back thank you thank you it's great here so what's going on for you here I am partnering with Cisco what's let's get what's going on well here are we're here to help you know sort of promote the idea around IOT analytics at the edge right with the idea of demonstrating a lot of the IBM products you know I did a workshop today and you know a lot of hands-on mechanical stuff but also leveraging some of the IOT technology offered by IBM so IBM cloud cloud analytics mainly is what you're doing that's right we've chat in the past going back big day two days Anup days when it was you know fashionable now it's kind of have a that's more data leaks nothing let's do the central part of the conversation ai is obviously Mark Zuckerberg and presenting in front of or testifying in front of the Senate's right it's all around AI in analytics Asli dated the data rules change but year conversation with Cisco is IOT yeah because a lot of the network stuff edge of the network these are paradigms that our network inherently perfect for Cisco that's right IBM does a lot of IOT job do a lot a blockchain work as well yeah this is all serving enterprise so what's the big theme real relevant theme for enterprises when it comes to things like how do I use flop chain or how do I use IOT how do I incorporate that tech into my enterprise well I think the first the first barrier is to just understand the technology and the limitations of that technology so you mentioned blockchain you know I'm out quite a bit in the field talking to people talking to partners IBM partners customers customers and there's this confusion around what's a blockchain is what blockchain is all about and the same with big data back in the day you mentioned you know we met up with some conferences back then I think they need to understand what the technologies do what they serve what purposes they serve so blockchain is fairly new right there's a lot of confusion there was the same with big data back and a very confusing IOT you know when we go out as a Technical Evangelist my team we go out and we talk to people there's an appetite to learn more to understand what this IOT thing is and how can they use it how did how can it help us make more money what are they drilling down on our where or better yet what are you evangelizing in what's what are they receptive to what's what's working for them what are they resonates with the customers or potential customers that you guys talk to first and foremost the fact that you know when we go out we have live sessions and we train we give them hands-on right out of the gate within you know 20 minutes they have a bot checkoff built within an hour we build a blockchain right with it with and they do it they see it they experience it and that excites them and then along the way we also we try to educate them on you know why this is important this is how it can be used you know IOT is you know this confusion around that - you know how can i leverage this but I've also talked to customers where they're doing some cool stuff with the edge and I think that leads to my next question actually was which is what use cases do you see what our customers talking about you know I think if you have people building block chains and things along those lines that's great but what are they going to apply it - yeah so there's a perfect example working with a customer and they they're businesses around drones you know UAVs to go out and look for anomalies on pipelines oil pipelines so they have a great technology a drone you know we can go 100 kilometers an hour they can go 100 kilometers in distance but what they need they really need to be able to look for things that shouldn't be there so computer vision you know machine learning deep learning and so we're working with them now to help them get the technology just right to live on the drone to be able to do image recognition highly with high accuracy in real-time so the machine learning in the IOT working out on the edge so is that Watson machine learning no no because it has to happen no we could do or watching today right the problem is you have to have that long-haul communication with the cloud now this needs to happen on the drone in real time okay so we're working with them to figure out you know how we can achieve that and there's some things coming out of IBM and in their future that'll make that a bit easier great and I think that that's an exciting awesome use case to be able to do computer vision on the fly and you know using these neural networks to make decisions I mean the drone example is real life and it's one of those things where we've seen many presentations and examples one of them I loves kind of I'm a wireless geek but I love the towers and I like to see how those they send your owns up there to look at the equipment and then look for repair so it's all automated it's all perfectly executed in the airspace if you will not name space but it goes in there you know power lines you know drones are being used to clear that's right debris and power line all kinds of use cases I think Accenture once told us there was a use case where on car accidents are scenes where they got to take the road and Thrones come in to a full representation and visual and reduces the that's right it's a time to survey the scene along you know one that's read you think about the wind farms these huge wind farms and they have to do inspections use some of these fields you see they're just 500 you know turbines out there and so you need to get out there and the drones are perfect they can look at the blades and you know because they have the high-speed cameras and those blades return and they can still look for defects and fractures and in predict you know using analytics again out there you know predictive maintenance to say hey you know there's something going on here you help us with the cube join me we did cube drone to go out and cover all of our events for us absolutely I'd love to work interviews I'd love to work with you guys that would be null series now just kidding aside is there a profile that you see with customers that resonates well in terms of why are some people more successful now on the cutting edge thing is they got the foresight they got the budget at IT what what's the perfect configuration what makes the customers or a tune to knocking down these low hanging fruit scenarios so I'm gonna say something that's obvious and I'm sure you see it all the time but it's just the risk risk-averse you know you need to put yourself out there you need to be you know a next-gen thinker and that's how we you know within my team when we think about going out and finding these next-gen partners you know born in the cloud you know they're thinking they're thinking beyond what's the from you so the people that are doing these this cool work there either you know a really hardcore tech you know like the drone example or these young entrepreneurs who really don't have much to lose and they have these great ideas you know certainly around blockchain I've heard some some cool ideas around blockchain what people want to do with it and so they you know they're small they're agile they have a vision and they'll take the chance you know the theme here that's interesting and Laura and I were talking about earlier is that the co-creation model is really where the ideas are going to come from so the old model was you pixton technology selection and you put it to work and you that should appreciate or amortize it over whatever period financially to pay back period all that nonsense now to a world where all the ideas are coming from the teams themselves yeah so the the suppliers the vendors don't pitch here's our IOT solution place our IOT fabric is invest Indies are the new approaches the new posture for vendors where these developers who are creating all the action yeah it certainly you know you see that look yeah yeah yeah that's how just you know the workshop we did here today you know if someone wants to kick the tires and wants to learn you know you're not gonna go to proprietary vendor equipments like the big data back in the day you know everyone started with the dupe that was the center of it right open so yeah and it's the same here so there's a lot of Technology open source free technology for people to go out and do prototypes and figure out what they need to do and that's what we're seeing people you know certainly when we go out and do our live events with IBM hands on immediately you know you're doing IOT solutions right so you can take it away and you can go back and then now you can apply it and build on it so you know it's going back to just education and people understanding what these technologies are how to use them and and how to get started you know the proverbial HelloWorld program is there a big event coming up for IBM you got you're gonna be going towards or what's your schedule look like you're on the road a lot what are the big things you got going on well we just had think out in Vegas are you guys were there I was there and we had IBM index not too long before that so that's sort of like the developer event like this for us on a team Aman we have schedules throughout the year to go through various cities there are 15 of us all around the country you know hosting meetups and you know initiating meetups getting partner events co-hosting with developers or cxos or oh so we we target the development team and we target the you know the decision maker around making purchases right so they need to be a part of that story you know we can easily win over the developers with our technology the hard part is winning over the people that signed the check so yeah it's exciting buddy thanks for stopping by great to see you yeah thank you very much your job analytics the heart of the IOT Louis froley Oh Technical Evangelist at IBM you know in the days where all the action is obviously the date as the center you got AI blockchain that's IBM's vision love does love the new love the new messaging from IBM right money we have two definite create here in Silicon Valley more live coverage after this short break

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone here live in San Francisco at Moscone West of cubes exclusive coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John four with mykos John Troy a founder of tech reckoning advisory and on community services firm our next guest is Jason O'Connell openshift platform owner of mark mcquarrie group welcome to the cubes let's get it right that's right well the retail bank of Macquarie so thank you and financial services thanks for coming on so bossy begging is pretty hot big time early adopter of all things tech yes and you doing a lot of work at kubernetes tell us about what you're doing take a minute to explain your job what your focus is some of the some of the environment DevOps things you're doing it's a basically I'm head of the container platform team at Macquarie Bank so basically my team manages open shifts on AWS we do the architecture on there but we also focus a lot on the value add on top so we don't just give our our customers for my team are the developers and the development teams we don't just give them a blank platform we do a lot of automation a lot of work on top of that basically because we want to make sure that the idea of a platform as a service is that we do as much as possible to make developers lives easy talk about the journey when did you start on this effort Asli Amazon's great cloud we use it as well other clouds are coming on you had Google and Microsoft and others but when did the open shift conversations start happening where were you what year was it how long have you been using it it's gone through some great changes I want to get your experience on that open shifter journey I mean somewhat of an early adopter I mean we started looking at this two years ago so that was openshift 3.1 a lot of the basic features weren't even there and it took us a year to both build it out as well as migrate about 40 applications to production so it was only a year ago that we've been in production so it's evolved like so rapidly during that time so 40 applications migrating right that enough in and of itself in a year is is a pretty heavy lift can you talk a little bit about are you just re platforming the applications obviously probably not rewriting at this point the open shift has been a good home for the applications that you started out with it sounds like I mean one of the reasons to choose open shift was docker and it was about that migration path I mean part of the migration was ensuring that developers could get everything running locally get these legacy systems we did a lot of micro services running locally on docker containers on their laptop then the migration was was easy from there but we deliberately didn't want to do like a lift and shift we wanted to rethink how we delivered software as part of this project okay what's the biggest challenges you had in doing this I mean as you can open ships got some great movement Houston Cooper native good bet and kubernetes is looking like a really awesome way to move workloads around and manage containers and clusters so you know what's what are some of the things we've learned what are some of the complexities that you overcame can you share a little bit about some of the specifics I think I think the newness is is probably the biggest challenge I mean going back to two years ago there was some very basic components that weren't there at the time and we knew were coming and even now there are pieces of work which we just don't tackle and we do a very quick fix because we know it's coming later I mean it's just moving and evolving so quickly you know we're waiting a lot for sto which is coming in the future so we're holding back on investing in certain areas because of that so it's always a constant challenge yeah I still looking good and the service mesh is hot as well how has OpenShift helped you but what's the list if you had to kind of boil it down what's the bin the the impact to you guys where's the where's that coming from I mean before we even selected OpenShift we had we're looking at our objectives from a business perspective not a technology perspective I'm the biggest objective we had was speed to delivery you know how could you get a business idea a product idea into production as fast as possible or even if you look at a minor fix to something something that should be easier develop it takes a data ride why does it take a month to release the production so speed of delivery was one of the key objectives and I can tell you more about how we we delivered that in detail but just going back to the objectives we also looked at developer experience you know sometimes the developers are not spending enough time coding and doing it they want they get bogged down in a lot of other pieces of work that I I'm really delivering business value yeah so again we wanted the platform to handle that for them they could focus more on their work this is the promise of DevOps and the whole idea of DevOps is to automate away the hassles and I mean my partner Dave a lot that calls a rock fetches no one likes to do all that work it's like can someone else just handle it and then when you got now automation that frees it up but this brings up the thing that I would love to get your reaction to because one things we've been covering and talking a lot about in the cube is this isn't happening around us it's not just what we're doing but this new modern way to deploy software you'll get like some of the big things that are happening in with cloud native and you mission is do is to do this awesome dynamic things on the fly that are automated away so it changes the how software is being built how are you guys embracing that what's the thought obviously you've got a team that's got the mindset of dev yeah I'll see embracing this vision and if everything else is probably substandard she'll you look at you know waterfall or any kind of non agile what is the your view of this modern era of writing code and building applications what I mean for people who don't aren't getting it how are you how do you explain it you know I think it's I mean it's an unbelievable time that we're in at the moment I mean the amount of automation that we're doing is huge and part of our openshift is that it's an automated bull platform so I've got a few junior guys in my team they're like two graduates and in turn they do a lot of the automation yeah it's that easy if you look at interestingly in like security and risk teams and governance teams where we're finding look they can improve security risk and all this by automating you know they're the one set and now we've got SEC offs movements and things like that so speed of production is is does not prohibit better security and in fact with Sec ups the amount of automation we do you got a far greater amount of security because we now know everything that's deployed we can continually scanning for vulnerabilities yeah so Jason you talked about it being new we've talked a little bit about culture how much of this has been a training exercise how much is that it's been a cultural shift within your organization as one of the leaders of it how are you approaching I mean we're lucky there within Macquarie Bank there was a large scale culture shift towards agile where the whole bank runs in that gel manner so that's helped us then fill in our technology and automation it complements that way of delivering so we've got some very unique ways where we've done automation and delivery which completely rethinks how we used to deliver before so right example yeah for instance now if you think why were people scared of delivering something into production why was a small change scary change and a big part of it is the blast radius if something went wrong you know connecting through to our API is we've got our own channels mobile apps a website you've got a lot of partners there are the companies connecting through as well and so even if you did a small change if it costs an issue everyone's affected at once so a big piece of what we did to deliver faster is allowed targeted releases you know I could target a release and a change just to you we could target it to a percentage of customers monitor rolled out quickly if there's a problem dial it up if it's looking good good target to any channel it seems like there's a business benefit to that too right that's massive here because you also can promise stability on certain channels if you want you can have faster channels that are moving quickly and in an API driven world we've got external companies connecting through to these api's you want to be able to say that we've given you a stable offering and you can upgrade when you want and then our channels we cannot move more fast so we've got a minister no-brainer I mean really the old way is completely dead because of that because I think what the blast radius you're pointing about blast radius the risk is massive so everyone's kind of on edge all these tests have to go in redundancies as if the planning is ridiculous all for the risk all that energy you're optimizing for a potential non-event or event here with micro services and you an out can go down to the granular level the granularity is really amazing so when you go forward first of all it's a recruiting opportunity to get better engineers wait this is a way we work I'm going forward I want you to comment on your opinion as an industry participant and can clarify this because a lot of people get confused here Automation they think jobs are going away administration is getting automated system admin type roles where junior people can now do more operating things but the operating roles not going away so talk about that that ops side because now the ops are more efficient the right things are audited maybe but talk about that dynamic between the right things being automated and the right things that are gonna roll to operational service messages or whatnot yeah I mean basically it's about getting people to do these higher-order functions so the people who are doing things manually and operating things manually you look at our Ops teams now morphing into like the classic SRE team you know the side reliability engineering teams where they're spending a significant amount of that time automating things you know looking at alerting and monitoring and then Auto healing I mean it's actually more work to automate everything but with a far greater amount of quality and reliability and what we get and the benefits are long it's worth it basically you do the work upfront and you reap the benefits and then variety away it's like writing rolling out software managing workloads talk about multi class here on Amazon multi cloud is a big focus to your hybrid cloud multi-cloud obviously we're seeing that trend how do you look at multi cloud as a practitioner what are some of the things that check our check boxes for you in terms of okay as we start looking to the next level there might be a multiple cloud scenario how do you think about that and how do you put that into perspective that's worth noting even two years ago and we selected openshift it was with the idea that we could go multi cloud you know that for the users for the developers they're not going to know the difference where we run it on so we're not locked into any provider final question for you if you can boil down openshift into kind of like a soundbite for you what does it mean to you guys what's been the benefit what's been it it's been that what's been the role what's the benefit of OpenShift as you pour the cloud journey you know I could say speed I could say automation I mean that's huge but but really open shift and read how to pick the winner which is docker and kubernetes and a colleague of mine is in coop con in Copenhagen last week he's constantly messaging me saying there's new tooling you guys can use this you can use that and it means that rather than us doing the work we're just getting tooling from the community so it's the de facto standards so that's that's probably the biggest benefit all the goodness is just coming right to your front door luckily and I got to do my homework every night playing around with this technology so yeah gates success story and again the great community open-source projects out there you guys can bring that in and productize it for the retail bank congratulations love open-source stories like this tier one citizen and again continues to power the world open source softens the cube do our part bring and use all the data from Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John fryer with John Tory we'll be back with more after this short break

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone this is the cube live in San Francisco Moscone West for coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John for the co-host of the cube mykos this week as analyst John Schwarz the co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm our next guest is Craig pizzelles right senior vice president application platforms business and portfolio for Red Hat great to see you welcome back to the cube thank you very much John so big-time executive a company is doing well and you guys are growing adding more people every time being successful again an open source another generations upon us a standing on the shoulders of giants you guys have been a business model for Red Hat for many many years rel certainly successful container madness now mainstream kubernetes clear line of sight on what that's doing as an abstraction layer and standard de-facto standard around orchestration the really good tailwind for you guys and the industry absolutely absolutely congratulations and what's your take I mean obviously you got apps now you're good people gonna be building apps system working OpenStack what's what's going on right well there's a lot going on I mean we've we've been very consistent about our strategy and it's finally starting to pay off and come together and I think the mark is starting to realize that we have been talking about hybrid cloud before it was in vogue and you know well over five years ago and so all those pieces come together we've always talked about a story of there are multiple footprints whether it's physical vert traditional virtual private cloud and public cloud and then companies will want to and customers will want to do more than just the four footprints they want to do multi cloud as well so you know we've been very strong on the infrastructure side having Linux as the base and the operational consistency across those footprints in which to build on and then now containers and kubernetes with OpenShift gives us plus that that last leg together to give us that abstraction layer across these multiple footprints to allow hybrid to happen I wanna get your reaction this because we were talking on our intro package around the dynamic we're seeing in today's business landscape and technical landscape open source clearly the business model for software right check kubernetes provide some interoperability and cloud native growth for new applications cloud we're cloud native what are you gonna call it and then you've got legacy applications for the first time don't have to get thrown away to go to the new world you have the ability to containerize write pre-existing applications while bringing a new functionality new infrastructure new software methodologies development architectures modernizing software yeah while maintaining and preserving the life cycle of pre-existing applications great absolutely this is the dynamic that is really a wonderful thing because takes the pressure off absolutely and I think that's unique to Red Hat which is we've always had not only the hybrid cloud story the multi cloud story but the fact that containers allows you to advanced advanced a movement to you know do digital transformation start using micro services etc but you don't need to start over you can take existing applications you can containerize those applications get them into a cloud environment gain those efficiencies operational efficiencies and development efficiencies and then start to also build new applications based on microservices architectures and bring both together some of the other vendors out there may only have a story about well you have to rewrite everything it right or it's only going to be public cloud and you're tied to those public cloud api's I think you know using containers as a methodology and then using orchestration with kubernetes you can have the best of both worlds and we think that's important I wanted to drill down to the stack a little bit more right I think this year maybe even as opposed to last year the cube was that the OpenStack summit and there was a little bit of confused talk about you know containers you know what on what openshift on OpenStack or vice versa the message this this year very clear you know openshift on OpenStack here's the infrastructure don't get confused so we've got those two layers that you lay down but also there's a lot of application services in the Red Hat stack that you all have built out and I think if people were listening closely right there's a multi-year investment in there in things like you know that originated with an application server like JBoss that now actually in 2018 architectural II look very different now that's a set of services that developers can use so maybe I mean can you talk a little bit about I mean that's an example also I'm not throwing everything out but evolving can talk a little bit about the depth of the stack there and and servicing all those various requirements I mean if you look at the stack we're talking about infrastructure services some of those are in things like OpenStack so you know whether it's compute storage networking etc we demonstrated some ability in through kubernetes to provision and orchestrate VMs and so you saw some of that in the demos that we show today but then once you lay down that foundational layer with containers and kubernetes with openshift then we start to build services on top of that we have been building this portfolio of middleware services for some time and so we can provide messaging as a service we can provide integration and ipad services we have something now called Roar which is packaging together a runtime and frameworks to put together inside of OpenShift we have process management and orchestration technologies business process management so all those services are something that developers need and you start adding those now as cloud services and so the other one of the other things that we've also done beginning about two years ago we began a journey for automating the application lifecycle of building application the pipeline capability we did an acquisition of a company called codenvy which is the founders of eclipse CheY the cloud native ide and workspace environment and so now we've now begun shipping openshift i/o to give you that end-to-end capability from beginning your project to writing the code to doing CI CD and managing the full lifecycle so it's all starting to come together for us a big big talk here at the show about kubernetes being kind of dun dun gnu/linux right the new platform that's going to enable a huge amount of innovation but I love that openshift is more than kubernetes a and also that you know as part of this it's it's a it's you know the role of Linux was a bunch of device drivers right and you're and you're organizing on one machine the clap now that we're in cloud right kubernetes is is about operations like you just said about the code lifecycle about all this stuff and all of a sudden yes it yes it's a it's an analogy but but it's much broader than that it's much broader than that one analogy I mean you made the analogy about Linux I mean Linux basically abstracted a number of hardware architectures and gave you a common operating environment in which to run on x86 or even run on a mainframe or run on power now running on arm you know we have looked at and said well there's a similar analogy now having and taking place with containers in kubernetes where you can create an orchestration layer and an abstraction layer across multiple infrastructures and then building app dev services on top of that so that's what's coming together right now so you know we think it's important also to build out the ecosystem so we're providing application development services on top of this you know this abstraction layer we're building tooling and application lifecycle management but we're also bringing in partners so our announcements today with or yesterday with IBM and even Microsoft they're container izing sequel server they're putting it into our container catalog there will be a distribution of that the the the IBM products and the IBM middleware products and so we'd right now in our ecosystem development program we have about 60 is v's already certified already in a container catalog we grade them in terms of their security so you have some confidence we have another pipeline of another two hundred is BS coming in and then also our service broker so bringing in services we made announcements last year with with AWS to bring in some of their services like lambda and other services into the service broker so you see this hybrid world where you have a lot of different application development capabilities both from us and from our on the ecosystem and the service broker technology to help you bridge you know the best of breed services from all these multiple clouds okay I talked about the ecosystem evolution because you're creating an enabling technology capability and new new growth is coming we see that already kind of on the radar how is that gonna change the ecosystem makeup for you guys actually the the container catalog and ISPs what's it gonna look like is V is gonna be developer I mean what how do you guys envision the ecosystem evolving over the ecosystem it obviously is involved most of these you know most of the traditional the ISPs will begin to offer their own services you know they might be hosting them on AWS but they're gonna provide cloud services so they're gonna be exposing api's to use those services so I see that the evolution isn't there will be a lot of code that you still containerize and offer but there will be many services that are hosted somewhere else posted in a cloud hosting but you want to bring those services to bear I'm creating in an application maybe on Prem with openshift but I need to use a machine learning service from perhaps Google or from Watson and IBM so how do i and those are hosted services so how do I use those services even though my cloud native environment is inside inside the inside the firewall front I'm an integration or two critical pieces you guys got a layout across that right yeah yeah yes and so there's a distributed computer it sounds like an operating system out but it's spread all over the place it's spread all over the place your thoughts on your current portfolio how's it kind of all you talk about some of the services you're enabling within your own portfolio for your customers out there now rel very stable operationally everybody knows that how is the portfolio within Red Hat gonna continue to evolve at what's their vision there yeah so we are beginning to do more of you know integrating infrastructure services in from kubernetes so what you saw you know cnv containerized virtualization allows you to orchestrate VMS we've done the same thing with storage and storage virtualization you'll see more on the infrastructure side probably things like networking are next some of the API is within OpenStack but then up stack we're looking at other capabilities we do have a project going on right now with server list it's in tech preview it was demoed yesterday so you'll see a server list offering from us we have been experimenting with machine learning and AI and we're using it inside of our own capabilities like insights which is a management a hosted management tool but providing machine learning capabilities and offering those inside natively with inside of open ship these are all futures and part of the roadmap that we have going forward for application developers out there are potential partners of Red Hat what's the mandate in your mind to make kubernetes a first-class citizen so if I'm watching I want it I want a vector into this you know skate to where the puck is going kind of mindset what do I need to do what is an enterprise and a business or developer or startup right need to do two cunning connect into the growth is it a playbook do you see something involving that stick and maybe a clear line one of the things I mean from is just a technical basis if you if a partner has software well get a containerized figure out how that works in containers how many how do you structure that if a partner has a service then make that available through the service broker we will work with those partners to you know look at business models that might be appropriate in a cloud native environment that spans across cloud to help them market so those are some of the things I think you know a partner or an ecosystem provider would you should think about what's the feedback of the show here after the hallway conversations Dobbs a lot a lot of openshift conversations it's a centerpiece what are you hearing what are you seeing what's what's going on for you at the show here I think the breadth of what Red Hat has become I you know when we'd go to shows five six years ago we had you know started to build out the portfolio but you know people would still come to the show and you know it's the Linux show but it's no longer the Linux show it's it's a much bigger it's it's about computing open-source computing in the enterprise and cloud-based computing and so the breadth of the portfolio I think is a surprise for many people and how many things we do offer when you look at some of the customer testimonials and the demos we're showing everything from you know infrastructure and private cloud infrastructure out to very sophisticated application development use cases so I think that's a big difference than what you might have seen six broad you're broadening your portfolio from standalone Linux to include management applicate more applications this is a bigger market it's a much bigger market I think we you know we view our we we view our opportunity as becoming the computing platform both at an infrastructure level and helping the developers for the next you know for the next 50 years so hopefully right and it's a shift in the marketplace - and a shift in skill set of the people who are here right that's another thing that to be able to pull those two people into the future like yeah absolutely I mean the skill set used to be again you know a primary linux show a lot of linux systems administrators and and data center executives and data center managers and now you have a much more senior levels many c-suite people coming here to to understand how they transform their business how open-source can help how this broad hybrid cloud platform can help and then a large set of architects and developers so the mix is really interesting now it's not just the infrastructure and data center guys but it's the executives that make those decisions as well as the application develop you have more community members that are users inside the open source projects making things happen oh absolutely you guys now it helps everyone else oh I was just approached by a large bank this week and on openshift i/o which is this tool chain this pipeline capability now an open shift they want to participate they asked how do we get involved in the projects in the upstream projects we would like to build this out so that's just one example I think of and we get asked all the time about hey can you teach us how to be an open company how to be how does open source work how could we facilitate that in our culture to be a little bit more creative collaborative and move faster so I mean open source model is definitely real what are the customer feedback can you share because we're hearing the same thing the customers saying okay it's easier to recruit it's easier to just make everything open just from an operational standpoint right what are some of your top customers that have been with red head for a while what are they saying to you when they say wow this the benefits are are well well the benefits I think are are that they are much faster to market they can leverage skills and capabilities that may not be inherent in their own company beyond their walls they could you know get build ecosystems that have affinity to the to themselves all because they're just you know reaching out there they're participating in open source communities and trying to create a culture of open source and then you get better products out of a certain link wray thanks for coming on the cube and sharing your insights congratulations on all your success great to have you on we're here at the Red Hat summit 28 teens the cubes live covers stay with us for more work day two of three days of wall-to-wall coverage we'll be right back after this short break I'm John four with John Troy here stay with us

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone here live in San Francisco at Moscone West of cubes exclusive coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John four with mykos John Shroyer founder of tech reckoning advisory and on community services firm our next guest is Jason O'Connell openshift platform owner of mark McQuarrie group welcome to the Cuse let's get it right that's right well the retail bank of Macquarie so thank you and financial services thanks for coming on so bas lead banking is pretty hot big-time early adopter of all things tech yes and you doing a lot of work at kubernetes tell us about what you're doing take a minute to explain your job what your focus is some of the some of the environment DevOps things you're doing that's the basic I'm head of the container platforms team at Macquarie Bank so basically my team manages open shifts on AWS we do the architecture on there but we also focus a lot on the value add on top so we don't just give our our customers for my team are the developers and the development teams we don't just give them a blank platform we do a lot of automation a lot of work on top of that basically because we want to make sure that the idea of a platform as a service is that we do as much as possible to make developers lives easy tell about the journey when did you start on this effort Asli Amazon's great cloud we use it as well other clouds are coming on you got Google and Microsoft and others but when did the open shift conversations start happening where were you what year was it how long have you been using it it's gone through some great changes I want to get your experience on that opened she have to journey I mean somewhat of an early adopter I mean we started looking at this two years ago so that was openshift 3.1 a lot of the basic features weren't even there but it took us a year to both build it out as well as migrate about 40 applications to production so there's only a year ago that we've been in production so it's evolved like so rapidly during that time so 40 applications migrating right that enough in and of itself in a year is is a pretty heavy lift can you talk a little bit about are you just replied forming the applications obviously probably not rewriting at this point the open shift has been a good home for the applications that you started out with it sounds like I mean one of the reasons to choose openshift was docker and it was about that migration path I mean part of the migration was ensuring that developers could get everything running locally get these legacy systems we did a lot of micro services running locally on docker containers on their laptop then the migration was was easy from there but we deliberately didn't want to do like a lift and shift we wanted to rethink how we delivered software as part of this project okay what's the biggest challenges you had in doing this I mean as you go but she has got some great movements you could burn aces a good bet and kubernetes is looking like a really awesome way to move workloads around and manage containers and clusters so you know what's what are some of the things we've learned what are some of the complexities that you overcame can you share a little bit about some of the specifics I think I think the newness is is probably the biggest challenge I mean going back to two years ago there were some very basic components that weren't there at the time when we knew were coming and even now there are pieces of work which we just don't tackle and we do a very quick fix because we know it's coming later I mean it's just moving and evolving so quickly you know we're waiting a lot for sto which is coming in the future so we're holding back on investing in certain areas because of that so it's always a constant challenge yeah I still looking good and the service mesh is hot as well how has OpenShift helped you but what's the what's the if you had to kind of boil it down what's the been the the impact to you guys where's the where's that coming from I mean before we even selected OpenShift we had we're looking at our objectives from a business perspective not a technology perspective I'm the biggest objective we had with speed to delivery you know how could you get a business idea a product idea into production as fast as possible or even if you look at a minor fix to something something that should be easier develop it takes a data ride why does it take a month to release the production so speed of delivery was one of the key objectives and I can tell you more about how we we delivered that in detail but just going back to the objectives we also looked at developer experience you know sometimes the developers are not spending enough time coding and doing if they want they get bogged down in a lot of other pieces of work dinner I'm really delivering business value yeah so again we wanted the platform to handle that for them they could focus more on their work and this is the promise of DevOps and the whole idea of DevOps is to automate away the hassles and I mean my part to Dave a lot that calls a rock fetches no one likes to do all that work it's like can someone else just handle it and then when you got now automation that frees it up but this brings up the thing I would love to get your reaction to because one things we've been covering and talking a lot about in the cube is this is been happening around us it's not just what we're doing but this new modern way to deploy software you look at like some of the big things that are happening in with cloud native and you mention SEO is to do this awesome dynamic things on the fly that are automated away so it changes the how software is being built how are you guys embracing that what's the thought oh so you've got a team that's got the mindset of DevOps yeah I'll see embracing this vision and if everything else is probably substandard she'll you look at you know waterfall or any kind of non agile what is the your view of this modern era of writing code and building applications what I mean for people who don't aren't getting it how are you how do you explain it you know I think it's I mean it's an unbelievable time that we're in at the moment I mean the amount of automation that we're doing is huge and part of our openshift is that it's an automated bull platform so I've got a few junior guys in my team they're like two graduates and in turn they do a lot of the automation yeah it's that easy now everything's got API so we can connect everything so I do find when we interface with some of the older school teams in different parts of the bank that aren't doing this level of automation they used to manual processes and manual ways of doing things and now we look at everything where everything can be automated that's thing you really truly feel now opened up that you could automate absolutely everything I mean the developer productivity one is key you know state of mind is another I mean the mood is better okay people are in a better mood more productive yeah and I think if you look at interestingly in like security and risk teams and governments teams where we're finding look they can improve security risk and all this by automating you know they're the one set and now we've got SEC offs movements and things like that so speed of production is is does not prohibit better security and in fact with Sec ups the amount of automation we do you got a far greater amount of security because we now know everything that's deployed we can continually scanning for vulnerabilities yeah what so Jason you talked about it being new we've talked a little bit about culture how much of this has been a training exercise how much is that it's a cultural shift within your organization as one of the leaders of it how are you approaching I mean we're lucky there within Macquarie Bank there was a large scale culture shift towards agile where the whole thing runs in that gel manner so that's helped us then feel in our technology and automation it complements that way of delivering so we've got some very unique ways where we've done automation and delivery which completely rethinks how we used to deliver before so example yeah for instance now if you think why were people scared of delivering something into production why was a small change scary change and a big part of it is the blast radius if something went wrong you know connecting through to our API is we've got our own channels we've got mobile apps got a website you've got a lot of partners there are the companies connecting through as well and so even if you did a small change if it costs an issue everyone's affected at once so a big piece of what we did to deliver faster is allowed targeted releases you know I could target a release and a change just to you we could target it to a percentage of customers monitor rolled out quickly if there's a problem dial it up if it's looking good good target to any channel it seems like there's a business benefit to that too oh it's massive here because you also can promise stability on certain channels if you want you can have faster channels that are moving quickly and in an API driven world we've got external companies connecting through to these api's you want to be able to say that we've given you a stable offering and you can upgrade when you want and then our channels we cannot move more fast so we've got mr. no-brainer I mean really the old way is completely dead because of that because you think about the blast radius you're pointing about blast radius the risk is massive so everyone's kind of on edge all these tests have to go in redundancies as if the planning is ridiculous all for the risk well that energy you're optimizing for a potential non-event or event here with micro-services and you and app can go down to the granular level the granularity is really amazing so when you go forward first of all it's a recruiting opportunity to get better engineers wait this is a way we work I'm going forward I want you to comment on your opinion as an industry participant and can clarify this because a lot of you'll get confused here automation they think jobs are going away administration is getting automated system admin type roles where junior people can now do more operating things but the operating roles not going away so talk about that that ops side because now the ops are more efficient the right things are audited me you but talk about that dynamic between the right things being automated and the right things that are gonna roll to operational service meshes or whatnot yeah I mean basically it's about getting people to do these higher-order functions so the people who are doing things manually and operating things manually you look at our Ops teams now morphing into like the classic SRE team you know the side reliability engineering teams where they're spending a significant amount of that time automating things you know looking at alerting and monitoring then Auto healing I mean it's actually more work to automate everything but with a far greater amount of quality and reliability when we go and the benefits are long it's worth it basically you do the work upfront and you reap the benefits and then variety of ways like writing rolling out software managing workloads talk about multi class here on Amazon multi cloud is a big focus to your hybrid cloud multi-cloud obviously we're seeing that trend how do you look at multi cloud as a practitioner what are some of the things that check our check boxes for you in terms of ok as we start looking for the next level there might be a multiple cloud scenario how do you think about that and how do you put that into perspective that's worth noting even two years ago and we selected open shifty it was with the idea that we could go multi-cloud you know that for the users for the developers they're not going to know the difference where we run it on so we're not locked into any provider I mean at the moment we're kind of just exploring Google cloud and we're looking at what it would look like so even we don't know yet some people have spoken about stretching your cluster across to clouds that means one cluster across two seems very difficult to me that a lot of latency issues potentially there's also cloud arbitrage you know can we get certain workloads on a card that's cheaper can we use spot instances can we spin things up and down we're on Google it's cheaper and then it also raises questions around okay do we need Federation and we know Federation has been talked about a lot with kubernetes how do we manage so many clusters and even on AWS now we have three production clusters you had multi clouds how am I gonna manage that what about the services layer of clouds right obviously the Red Hat platform gives you a services layer that could run anywhere but underneath that right AWS has its own services layer Google you know a lot of AI ml you know it could you be able to are you thinking about taking advantage or how are you thinking about those different offerings on different different places I mean this is the challenge I face and what we're exploring is that do some teams have the differentiating services the unique services that they want on Google especially for managing data machine learning we know those services are key for them some teams will have that but yet then can we call them over from AWS even oh do we have to deploy in in Google and have that in one data center can we go across with services so it's really like not just cloud AWS cloud Google but it's actually criss-crossing that's another thing we're exploring Jason thanks for coming on the cube really appreciate your commentary I've seen multiple red hats you guys have won awards you've been here before great job final question for you if you could boil down OpenShift into kind of like a sound byte for you what does it mean to you guys what's been the benefit what's been it it's been that what's been the role what's the benefit of openshift as you explore the cloud journey you know I could say speed I could say automation I mean that's huge but but really OpenShift and read how to pick the winner which is docker and kubernetes and a colleague of mine is in pucon in copenhagen last week he's constantly messaging me saying there's new tooling you guys can use this you can use that and a means that rather than us doing the work we're just getting tooling from the community so it's the de facto standards so that's that's probably the biggest benefit all the goodness is just coming right to your front door likely and I got to do my homework every night playing around with this technology so yeah great success story and again the great community open-source projects out there you guys can bring that in and productize it for the retail bank congratulations love open-source stories like this tier one citizen and again continues to power the world open-source softens the cube doing our part bring and use all the data from Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John fryer with John Tory we'll be back with more after this short break

from San Jose in the heart of Silicon Valley it's the kue covering big data sv 2016 now your host John furrier and George Gilbert okay welcome back on we are here live in Silicon Valley for the cubes looking angles flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise i'm john furrier mykos george gilbert big data analyst at Wikibon calm our next guest is 10 do yoga coo to yogurt coo coo I you see your last name yo Joe okay I gots clothes GM with big David sinks or welcome back to the cube sink starts been a long time guess one of those companies we love to cover because your value publishes is right in the center of all the action around mainframes and you know Dave and I always love to talk about mainframe not mean frame guys we know that we remember those days and still powering a lot of the big enterprises so I got to ask you you know what's your take on the show here one of the themes that came up last night on crowd chatters why is enterprise data warehousing failing so you know got some conversation but you're seeing a transformation what do you guys see thank you for having me it's great to be here yes we are seeing the transformation of the next generation data warehouse and evolution of the data warehouse architecture and as part of that mainframes are a big part of this data warehouse architecture because still seventy percent of data is on the mainframes world's data seventy percent of world's data this is a large amount of data so when we talk about big data architecture and making big data and enterprise data useful for the business and having advanced analytics not just gaining operational efficiencies with the new architecture and also having new products new services available to the customers of those organizations this data is intact and making that part of this next-generation data warehouse architecture is a big part of the initiatives and we play a very strong core role in this bridging the gap between mainframes and the big data platforms because we have product offerings spanning across platforms and we are very focused on accessing and integrating data accessing and integrating in a secure way from mainframes to the big data plan one is one of the things that's the mainframe highlights kind of a dynamic in the marketplace and wrong hall customers whether they have many firms are not your customers who have mainframes they already have a ton of data their data full as we say in the cube they have a ton of data do it but they spend a lot of times you mentioned cleaning the data how do you guys specifically solve that because that's a big hurdle that they want to just put behind they want to clean fast and get on to other things yes we see a few different trends and challenges first of all from the Big Data initiatives everybody is really trying to either gain operational efficiency business agility and make use of some of the data they weren't able to make use of before and enrich this data with some of the new data sources they might be actually adding to the data pipeline or they are trying to provide new products and services to their customers so when we talk about the mainframe data it's a it's really a how you access this mainframe data in a secure way and how you make that data preparation very easy for the data scientists the data scientists are still spending close to eighty percent of their time in data preparation and if you can't think of it when we talk about the compute frameworks like spark MapReduce flink versus the technology stack technologies these should not be relevant to the data scientist they should be just worried about how do i create my data pipeline what are the new insights that I'm trying to get from this data the simplification we bring in that data cleansing and data preparation is one well we are bringing simple way to access and integrate all of the enterprise data not just the legacy mainframe and the relational data sources and also the emerging data sources with streaming data sources the messaging frameworks new data sources we also make this in a cross-platform secure way and some of the new features for example we announced where we were simply the best in terms of accessing all of the mainframe data and having this available on Hadoop and spark we now also makes park and Hadoop understand this data in its original format you do not have to change the original record format which is very important for highly regulated industries like financial services banking and insurance and health care because you want to be able to do the data sanitization and data cleansing and yet bring that mainframe data in its original format for audit and compliance reasons okay so this is this is the product i think where you were telling us earlier that you can move the processing you can move the data from the mainframe do processing at scale and at cost that's not possible or even ii is is easy on the mainframe do it on a distributed platform like a dupe it preserves its original sort of way of being encoded send it back but then there's also this new way of creating a data fabric that we were talking about earlier where it used to be sort of point-to-point from the transactional systems to the data warehouse and now we've basically got this richer fabric and your tools sitting on some technologies perhaps like spark and Kafka tell us what that world looks like and how it was different from we see a greater interest in terms of the concept of a database because some organizations call it data as a service some organizations call it a Hadoop is a service but ultimately an easy way of publishing data and making data available for both the internal clients of the organization's and external clients of the organization's so Kafka is in the center of this and we see a lot of other partners of us including hot dog vendors like Cloudera map r & Horton works as well as data bricks and confluent are really focused on creating that data bus and servicing so we play a very strong there because phase one project for these organizations how do I create this enterprise data lake or enterprise data hub that is usually the phase one project because for advanced analytics or predictive analytics or when you make an engine your mortgage application you want to be able to see that change on your mobile phone under five minutes likewise when you make a change in your healthcare coverage or telecom services you want to be able to see that under five minutes on your phone these things really require easy access to that enterprise data hub what we have we have a tool called data funnel this basically simplifies in a one click and reduces the time for creating the enterprise data hub significantly and our customers are using this to migrate and make I would not say my great access data from the database tables like db2 for example thousands of tables populating an automatically mapping metadata whether that metadata is higher tables or parquet files or whatever the format is going to be in the distributed platform so this really simplifies the time to create the enterprise data hub it sounds actually really interesting when I'm hearing what you're saying the first sort of step was create this this data lake lets you know put data in there and start getting our feet wet and learning new analysis patterns but what if I'm hearing you correctly you're saying now radiating out of that is a new sort of data backbone that's much lower latency that gets data out of the analytic systems perhaps back into the operational systems or into new systems at a speed that we didn't do before so that we can now make decisions or or do an analysis and make decisions very quickly yes that's true basically operational intelligence and mathematics are converging okay and in that convergence what we are basically seeing is that I'm analyzing security data I'm analyzing telemetry data that's a streamed and I want to be able to react as fast as possible and some of the interest in the emerging computer platforms is really driven by this they eat the use case right many of our customers are basic saying that today operating under five minutes is enough for me however I want to be prepared I want to future-proof my applications because in a year it might be that I have to respond under a minute even in sub seconds when they talk about being future proofed and you mentioned to time you know time sort of brackets on either end our customers saying they're looking at a speed that current technologies don't support in other words are they evaluating some things that are you know essentially research projects right now you know very experimental or do they see a set of technologies that they can pick and choose from to serve those different latency needs we published a Hadoop survey earlier this year in january according to the results from that Hadoop survey seventy percent of the respondents were actually evaluating spark and this is very confused consistent with our customer base as well and the promise of spark is driven by multiple use cases and multiple workload including predictive analytics and streaming analytics and bat analytics all of these use cases being able to run on the same platform and all of the Hadoop vendors are also supporting this so we see as our customer base are heavy enterprise customers they are in production already in Hadoop so running spark on top of their Hadoop cluster is one way they are looking for future proofing their applications and this is where we also bring value because we really abstract that insulate the user while we are liberating all of the data from the enterprise whether it's on the relational legis data warehouse or it's on the mainframe side or it's coming from new web clients we are also helping them insulate their applications because they don't really need to worry about what's the next compute framework that's going to be the fastest most reliable and low latency they need to focus on the application layer they need to focus on creating that data pipeline today I want to ask you about the state of syncsort you guys have been great success with the mainframe this concept of data funneling or you can bring stuff in very fast new management new ownership what's the update on the market dynamics because now ingestion zev rethink data sources how do you guys view what's the plan for syncsort going forward share with the folks out there sure our new investors clearlake capital is very supportive of both organic and inorganic growth so acquisitions are one of the areas for us we plan to actually make one or two acquisitions this year and companies with the products in the near adjacent markets are real value add for us so that's one area in addition to organic growth in terms of the organic growth our investments are really we have been very successful with a lot of organizations insurance financial services banking and healthcare many many of the verticals very successful with helping our customers create the enterprise data hub integrate access all of the data integrated and now carrying them to the next generating generation frameworks those are the areas that we have been partnering with them the next is for us is really having streaming data sources as well as batch data sources through the single data pipeline and this includes bringing telemetry data and security data to the advanced analytics as well okay so it sounds like you're providing a platform that can handle the today's needs which were mostly batch but the emerging ones which are streaming and so you've got that sort of future proofing that customers are looking for once they've got that those types of data coming together including stuff from the mainframe that they want might want to enrich from public sources what new things do you see them doing predictive analytics and machine learning is a big part of this because ultimately once there are different phases right operational efficiency phase was the low-hanging fruit for many organizations I want to understand what I can do faster and serve my clients faster and create that operational efficiency in a cost-effective scalable way second was what our new for go to market opportunities with transformative applications what can I do by recognizing how my telco customers are interacting with the SAS services to help and how like under a couple of minutes I react to their responses or cell service is the second one and then the next phase is that how do I use this historical data in addition to the streaming of data rapidly I'm collecting to actually predict and prevent some of the things and this is already happening with a guy with banking for example it's really with the fraud detection a lot of predictive analysis happens so advanced analytics using AI advanced analytics using machine learning will be a very critical component of this moving forward this is really interesting because now you're honing in on a specific industry use case and something that you know every vendor is trying to sort of solve the fraud detection fraud prevention how repeatable is it across your customers is this something they have to build from scratch because there's no templates that get them fifty percent of the way there seventy percent of the way there actually there's an opportunity here because if you look at the health care or telco or financial services or insurance verticals there are repeating patterns and that one is fraud for fraud or some of the new use cases in terms of customer churn analytics or cosmetics estate so these patterns and the compliance requirements in these verticals creates an opportunity actually to come up with application applications for new companies start for new startups okay then do final question share with the folks out there to view the show right now this is ten years of Hadoop seven years of this event Big Data NYC we had a great event there New York City Silicon Valley what's the vibe here in Silicon Valley here this is one of the best events I really enjoy strata San Jose and I'm looking forward two days of keynotes and hearing from colleagues and networking with colleagues this is really the heartbeat happens because with the hadoop world and strata combined actually we started seeing more business use cases and more discussions around how to enable the business users which means the technology stack is maturing and the focus is really on the business and creating more insights and value for the businesses ten do you go to welcome to the cube thanks for coming by really appreciate it go check out our Dublin event on fourteenth of April hadoop summit will be in europe for that event of course go to SiliconANGLE TV check out our women in check every week we feature women in tech on wednesday thanks for joining us thanks for sharing the inside would sink so i really appreciate it thanks for coming by this turkey will be right back with more coverage live and Silicon Valley into the short break you

live from Las Vegas Nevada it's the cute covering knowledge 15 brought to you by service now hey welcome back everyone we are here live for day two of wall-to-wall coverage getting down to the end of the day here live for the cube at servicenow knowledge 15 hashtag no 15 join the conversation on crowd chat / no 15 this is the cube our flagship program out to the events and I strike a super low noise I'm John furrier mykos Dave vellante arnessk as a steve bates principle cio advisory at kpmg he runs the global technology business management practice welcome to the cube thanks for having me good to be here we could probably talk for a now or on just a couple different awesome use cases but the digital transformation is a buzzword being promoted by all the top analysts it certainly chums the water and in the mind of sea level suites are we you know Apple we Apple I want to be like Facebook like Google I want to be like that i want to be i got to be digital everywhere all formats all channels get some all hot and bothered end of the day rubber hits the road you guys are in this business with technology business management tvm yep what is that what is this going on here help explain the dynamic teen those two well one's a buzzword one's kind of a practice what's going on with this trend so let's take a step back and look at the method of how we run IT right the paradigm of traditionally running IT as a utility that quiet silent automated environment where you're trying to push down costs to the lowest possible level right digital transformation is going to blows that out of the water right it's no longer about an access to you know a single set of services that you know you have to go through a function to get right technology has been largely democratized and is accessible to everyone so how do you allow that to be how do you get transparency into what's important right how do I invest in the right things if I can just go by services with my credit card how does the CIO get their hands around with the right things are digital accelerates that so much more right no longer we bound to a data center no longer we bound to just a set of applications you need a way to manage your business of IT that's what tbm is trying to do establishing the tools and processes and credibility to allow you to do that so for all its cloud buffs out there we we've been calling that shadow IT that's the term being kicked around playing in the shadows going behind boss's back putting some stuff up on Amazon getting your hands slap then say wait we should do that across the whole company yeah that's kind of what's happening yeah and it's been a shadow IT isn't necessarily a bad thing right sorry exactly didn't a penalty buckle get back out here and implement this was a company-wide right so it's when you use tv-am as the method to manage your business it's to be able to say I want transparency into what we're using regardless of harden it put some practice and play so take us through some examples of top of your head where you've seen this in action what's the platform architectures look like what are the use cases I mean it's hard to rip and replace oh for sure we're so how do you how do you guys look at that and what is an example yeah so if you could start with the fundamentals which is removing the black box around IT right this is about getting transparency into who's using what in the estate all right so an example of the most of our clients start with is the use case of I have no idea how much we spend on i.t it's shocking i know we all we all are surprised about that even seventy percent is for operations what's the number exactly so that that beginning use case usually doesn't come from just the cio that really is typically coming the CFO and so our engagement as often with a CFO or someone in the finance organization saying i need transparency to understanding what we're consuming who's using it and are we actually spending money on the right thing so they know there's you know what they're spending at the top line or not necessarily because of shadow IT correct okay federer so TC oh there's the entire concept of total cost of ownership no I oh forget it but the Bennett but they know what the IT department is spending they know what's budgeted okay that's a capital budget and then there's this other stuff that goes on the career I don't have a handle on and so when you see that that always increasing cost of IT year over year and over year you can tie that to all wise why is it going up you know no one wants to but that's the old paradigm right what you want to say when you're do something with digital disruption is we want more technology alright we want them we want to actually turn that into our differentiator so how do we use more technology while driving down the cost on things we don't care about how do we how do we do it so that's the use of the original use case is always around transparency what you do with that transparency the actions you take that's interesting that's what's next and that's where you're talking around so if I want to reintroduce an entire way of doing our virtualization structure well I know now how much we spend on it I know who's using it I know what applications and services its links to and I now can make a decision a smart decision prior to investing in this what the value is yeah well it's the second third fourth and fifth thing that you just said yes those are the really hard things I mean relatively easy to find out at least what's being spent and that's hard but what applications are supported what's business processes is recorded what value yes is it bringing to my organization well that's where you guys come in that's the whole point it's this is about a value play and making decisions and on what you're going to invest and linking it to value as opposed to cost cost is a component of value but it's not the interesting part right you're only as good as the day you can get so how about the data impact cuz you know running IT as a business you need the data so that's where you guys can explain that get the data right how does the data get into the system that's something that I'm a little fuzzy on let's let's start with the premise that this entire thing or any ideas a business is built on credibility right and IT typically has very little credibility because they don't have good data or the data that they do have they can't defend right so how we start with it is with a fact-based conversation rings we do a bottoms-up model that will typically pull from in the ServiceNow case we're pulling from a CMD be a hardware asset management software asset management will pull in contracts will pull in to help desk tickets any information that helps inform us on what the IT estate really looks like and who's using those resources the the data is in service now the data is resident so it's a trusted source right for organizations who do not have a trusted source like for those who don't have a configuration management those that aren't using a service now it's incredibly difficult this disparate universe of data that's all garbage and enriched and manual what we do is we come in and we standardize that and we create trusted sources that can be certified and dependable and that's where you start yeah because I I see why you guys are needed because even if you have a cmdb even if you have service now you might know what all your hardware is but you don't know what apps are necessarily running on that hard way you don't know what business processes they support you don't know what your dependencies are you don't know what the users are you don't know the value of those users I mean that's a complicated situation and so how do you resolve that we enter with what we have in our service hierarchy right so you typically find an IT hierarchy that rolls up infrastructure to some level of IT towers that allow us to see well here's kind of what the operating the OS layer is there's maybe some middleware but organizations usually stop at that layer our model comes in and we built a whole stack we start with for the bottom up and the top down at the same time yeah there we go for business capabilities down to business services from business services to IT services and IT services into capabilities all the way down the stack that for us is an architectural blueprint that then you start running your organization off of its service oriented and then you can look at what Apple you look at the application portfolio and sort of chunks or sweets and then you've got granular yeah there's there's so many different slices you can take so let's just say you're at a application portfolio manager their common pretty common role but you want to know let's say one of your use cases and allow no rationalize my application is very common all right so how do i do that i can look at if I find one lens if I wants to look at licensing okay that's fine I can look at duplicate licenses out there but what do I want to see if I what's the ideal infrastructure to ride this upon able to get the whole stack from standardized my platform on the infrastructure to the application application portfolio managers should know that they shouldn't just be the apps layer it should manage the whole stack what if i want to know though the applications that are tied to a service a business service I can't get transparency of that there's no certain there's no technology today that just simply roles that off the show you can't just do an automated audit right exactly that's what that's what we're doing right is we're building that layer that intelligence layer on platforms like service now that allows you to get transparency from a business service which is a language you and I would use as consumers down to a technology service which IT and infrastructure and applications people okay so now everything we talked about is is challenging especially in organizations that don't have a clue which is the vast majority of organization don't have this data you know built and mapped out yep the hardest part still yet is to me if I'm going to make a decision to sunset applications and retire applications and rationalize my portfolio I want to make it on a value-based you know decision so how do you deal with that is you have a scoring methodology or some kind of balanced scorecard or other KPMG secret sauce or tons of KPMG hey no i would say that there's it's built on three things we tried always tie back to existing business metrics so you know don't create new IT metrics to prove value values already been declared by the business by the metrics they run the business by right so never simple stuff revenue exactly profit customer experience wouldn't you know however want to try that we look at time when we're building a portfolio services we're looking to tie those investments those technology investments directly to those metrics all right so you understand that if this portfolio of applications critical fits your CRM system if it is critical to delivering this revenue we are going to prioritize that is business credit and your codifying that as that tribal knowledge are codifying it based upon the people who know the business and then you're you've got a process to say okay now let's put that into the system correct we come in with a framework that we thinks eighty percent correct and that that twenty percent of enrichment that the business done we think that accelerates the process of getting to the value statement as opposed to what is all the linkages between my applications and this is a great business because that's our that's an organic thing it's always change it always in there so you gotta pee well okay so what happens when it changes how do I manage that so you're talking full lifecycle processes that's why this is a de tbm is a framework under which you manage your business so it's less about a service and it's more about almost an operator you gotta cook even you got a partner you're in the books your full forensic it's a full position but if i'ma see I don't say okay Steve I want you to teach me how to fish yep I don't want you to fish for me you're not gonna say no that's exactly so transfer n decision transfer knowledge transfer so there's there's extremely low value for us to continue to come back and do this as a project this isn't a project to not an outsourcing project correct you guys just say here's you been transformed you open your way and have a good business so good time to go grass all I got it I got and so when do you get the call you know man I my rooms around fire finally the second rooms burn like oh heck yeah I mean I'm gonna be proactive works really good right now I want you to come in and do an audit I mean is there a catalyst give me an example oh so pattern you got the name names or just give us a the consistent theme you're seeing well we often house is on fire breach something's going on shadow ID what are the new use cases well we often get called when there's someone standing outside a pile of rubble that used to be their home that is smoldering fortunately it's already dead we'd like okay we'd like to get past that listen I just started a new job my old places burn to the ground no I honestly I think that it comes back to the drivers are an organization is either getting challenged on the value of that of the IT dollar and it's and it is a reactive stance it's CIO is being beat up repeatedly and their credibility is gone see if typically the CFO or the actual consumers so you'll find that you know an enterprise CIO is getting hammered by the business unit CIO soon to which he is selling common backbone services as an example when when the equation comes down to cost that is always the first point the best organizations got past cost a while ago right that's the kind of drain that swamp and there's not a lot you can do there's not a lot of levers so you start talking about value and that's where organisms like it's like corporate kangaroo court yes get warring factions CIO saying no no we're doing our best for peddling as we can is their fault they didn't give us the requirements the CFO's in the middle trying to blow whistles you guys get called in everyone kind of goes to their corner yeah and you figure it out and let's have a fact-based conversation on an emotional conversation but this facts are there but get it set sorted out get the data yeah i hit the facts that that's the hard part is getting actually coming in with a method that de stablished is a fact pattern a base that a model that we can agree on and use a common language you'd be shocked how hard that is for so many organizations because their data is so this pressure point really is market I mean revenues dropping wine or they're not modernize this is now the payback for bad investment decisions yeah you know hey we should have done that or medicine stead of Khalid Saleh dating servers we should have done that and done this you have a client really you know just we discussing us today at one of our breakout sessions of a client who under invested for about ten years in their infrastructure they're paying for those sins now and they but the problem is they don't know how to take the two to three hundred million dollars and refresh money they don't even know where to apply it and and they don't know that they don't it just rip and replace and want to do like for like right they want to take digital disruption as an example I want to say this this is an opportunity for us yeah to remake our land great examples with a guest on open from the beer company on here is fantastic example where 19 years in the business craft beers growing and the winds were perfect they pivoted up a service now and what happened was they got the retail operation odd bistros they have distribution manufacturing so they have now just not just one business in three so they've now grown significantly stone stone brewery so let's use that as an example of the new I TFM application and service now let's say then we're super excited about that about service now entering into the TBM supplier ecosystem in this space that's a big move because service nails that really the only platform that has all of the data that you want resident to it right as a platform you can just feed it and and by putting this analytics layer around this IT financial management portion of it it accelerates you very quickly past transparency and gets you into the interesting conversations or well what would happen if I got into a new line of business let me model back what would happen if I you know shut down this move to this it gives you I chief it puts IT from a basement organization to full-on in control the master the universe because you had Internet of Things there and mobile right you cut every connected device AKA person yep and system so now you can they can do a lot with that I mean really great position yes hold position in the market absolu stevis it's the cio tag cloud of the stuff he or she has to worry about mobile cloud social security service management etc is pretty complicated matter so why should they be focused on technology business management and are they focused enough on T technology business management is it part of their priority list so I think it has to be most of the organizations that are mid size to large scale enterprises this is simply that though the way to have to shift to be able to meet this they don't think of it think of it this way that there's for every other function in an organization there's a management system all right for the finance group there's an ERP systems the marketing and group there's a sale system right there's there's no such system for IT there's no management framework for IT we have lots of principles we have frameworks like I till & Co so and cobit and on and on and on but there's really no management principles there tbm is kind of an international standard that thousands of companies are adopting that allow especially large-scale complex enterprises to make smart actionable decisions by running IT transparently why big organizations versus small organizations adopt this is exactly what the point you made is we have all of these competing priorities GRC and compliance and I mean you go on and on and on what are you going to spend your time on how do you prioritize what is the language of business language of business is financed right so we teach CIOs how to speak the language of business and sounds a little bit rudimentary but it's truly not when you have speak wallet correct speak follow the dollars and that's what we're doing through TV and that's why so many companies have adopted this principle as the right way to run IT as a business but the tech enablement layer underneath it still very nascent just growing service now entry into it is you know just this year so it's going to be it's what's next in our mind so I got to ask the final question your outlook for service now buying opportunity of course bye bye bye doc took a real hammering on Friday and we kind of busted Frank's chops a little bit about that buddy address and we wanted to get that out there but it's a platform that is really well architected for this agile cloud native cloud born the cloud whatever you want to buzz where you want to call it and be enterprise grace interesting how they backed in from enterprise to now agile right so I mean this is really a unique historic use case for you know vendors right I mean usually oh I'm the big startup but I'm going to go the enterprise all right you go consumer then you go enterprise the interesting here there in the enterprise but now with consumerization of IT kind of happening yep interesting model do you see anything else like this out there I think it's unprecedented frankly I think it's a new model that service now is setting the standard for the platform the design principle that service now has had of being a platform first right and being able to be elastic and extend into non-traditional use cases i think is at the core of why there's so much value vendors it's a very easily accessible you system and it allows you to take the importance of of dead equality workflow analytics and link them in a way that is just simple I think Frank's movement built a new boat that is faster and more agile than the big aircraft carriers that are absolutely device absolute software companies I mean monolithic big book upfront licenses I mean yeah and why why wouldn't you as a consumer why wouldn't you want an agile platform that I could start as a rowboat and build an aircraft carrier and then take it back to a rowboat again why wouldn't I want to have that flexibility like uber okay trade rowboat for business growth let's go by the way battleship modern nukes they have machine and I mean so this is the model by you go create time to value yep in the budget so this is disruptive and innovative like Amazon yes but difference but the enterprise grade but it allows you think of it follows the speed of business it follows the nature of the contractions and expansions of it that that's the model I think going for if you're not enterprise-grade you're going to be meet and struggle to keep up with the change of business and again a platform like a service now allows you to scale and contract and expand into areas where you are comfortable right now it aligns with your strategy yeah so its purpose built for the enterprise it's not purpose-built for a function and I think particularly think that's powerful final question because we talk about digital transformation also i'll throw another word buzzword out there social business IBM used to call the web ebusiness no one uses that term anymore ebusiness that's the web that's the internet but they're also tell muscles which is now transcend it to be more okay social media all this stuff you know buzz more PR PR function maybe some buzz but now you're seeing the touchpoints be more business driven workflow driven so rank mentions email sucks you know that kind of thing my kids kind of figured that out already on their own right so you know they don't use email very much so good phone access is consumer so social business real not real similar to the like way IBM used to call ebusiness early on and what's your outlook for this categorical new direction I get I think it's just the next logical step or the evolution you're like they're like all things the speed of these changes are just compounding but gold again back to your your digital disruption your mobile your mobile platform is just now that piece of glass is is now your foundation for everything right and that's that's just simply a fact the the paradigm again of having a very set of elastic technologies that can get any set of glass that you want and you can transact business with that's fine i think the question any much most people are asking is where's the great user experience associated with that and you'll see I kpmg is a great example we we acquired a company that just focuses on the social experience that giri that you're having through this and and that's that's a science right and it's it's not just making pretty web pages like we did back in the dot-com days you know the spinning logo that wasn't not the point it's around what is the science behind me having a great customer experience which creates brand loyalty on this screen versus this screen versus my TV screen and how do I make that consistent I think you're going to see that more and more than science because it John please yesterday after we had our great bit kind of for the folks out there saw it throwing the water having a lot of fun he said I don't believe how holly was making the big movies and then the kids are watching on this screen so his whole point was old school like hey you have art now in the small screen yeah I think that's that's the technology business management angle to this is you got it you've got to be able to shift and make the right decisions steve bates principal and global director of their technology practice and KPMG the transformation is happening thanks for joining spending time and sharing some great insights here on the cube of course we believe everything you're saying as well so great stuff we write back on our next guest kind of grinding down day two of three days of coverage it's the cube we'll be right back after this short break you

okay welcome back live in Las Vegas is the cube ibm's information on demand conferences q exclusive coverage SiliconANGLE will keep on here live I'm John furry the founder of silicon Hank I'm Joe mykos Dave vellante co-founder Wikibon org our next guest is a Fred Balboni global leader business analytics optimization IBM GBS global business services you know obviously big data is powering the world I mean just can demand for information and solutions is off the charts afraid welcome to the cube anything there's a services angle here where you know services matters because one in the channel partner is this good gross profit for helping customers implement solutions that they have demand for so you've a combination of a market that's exploding with demand people know it's a game changer with big data analytics cloud is obviously right there in the horizon in terms of on prem of Prem then you've got now see mobile devices bring your own device to work which is thrown off more data okay and then people want to be in all the different channels the social business so you know CIO to CEO says hey this new wave is here if we don't think about it now and get a position and understand it the consequences of not doing anything might be higher than they are so we've heard that how do you look at that and what are you guys doing what's the strategy give us a quick update and from from GBS i think that the to make this successful first of all it services is important it's the last mile you know that means the point you may it's the last mile and without without that you cannot ever deliver the value the the really interesting challenge that every executive faces is you need to be able to we can easily get our head around big data technology and I shouldn't trivialize that but you can go and understand the technology what's possible in big data you can also get your head around analytics and the analytics algorithms and the kind of insights that can be drawn from that the real challenge is how do you articulate what's kind of possible to a client because many of the use cases are very niche and so clients often say yet that's right but it's big it's possibly bigger than that yeah that's right it's possibly bigger than that the other issue or the other challenge to get we've got a hurdle we've got a jump on me articulate this to the businesses clients businesses think in terms of process you don't think in terms of data you know you don't go talk to a CIO CEO and say you know tell us what's the key attributes of your customer and they don't think that way they can talk to you about servicing a customer or selling to a customer or managing customer complaints so that the processes but the data it's a tough thing so the first part the services is so crucial in this is being able to articulate the value of analytics and big data to a client in the businesses terms so it becomes a boardroom conversation kind of so that's that gets the program started and then quickly being able to fill in with use cases because clients don't want this to be they don't want to start from a blank sheet of paper and they don't like going to give me some quick wins here so it's kind of those timetable what kind of timetables mmmm back in the 80s 90s when client-server rolled out it was months and months yeah project management meetings roll out the Oracle systems roll out the big iron now I mean I'll see maybe shorter spurts little different hurdles what's the timetable only some of these horizons for these quick wins okay so project implementation I come on now let's let's know it's it's I think that that we're measuring project implementations in weeks I think cloud-based technology allows us to provision environments on the order of a couple of weeks and that used to be on the order of five to six months so I think that's going to that accelerates everything and that also allows you to do a lot of a lot more speed to value get applications or analytics use cases up there much more rapidly one two as you start to build these portfolio of use cases and if they're built on acceleration tools I mean acceleration so you've got those code sets that are already there that you can add you can jump on top of I mean you can get these use cases up there in 6-8 weeks we have one we have an example a really large major company i'd rather not i'd rather not because it's not externally referenceable but a really a significant client that had on the order of more than more than 5 million discreet customers and doing detailed customer analytics on their customer base against their products and we were able to get that baby up and running in three and a half months now that two to three years ago traditional logic would have told you that was a nine to twelve month project and by the way you know ten years ago that would have been a 18 to 24 month project yeah so I think that yeah we're moving much more rats the expectation now too I mean the customers realize that too right the absolute not but but there's one thing I want to talk about this it's still this is the one thing that if you'd asked me what's most important this speed thing allows you to go rapidly to places but you you better have a navigation roadmap on where you're going because if you're going to do all kinds of little code drops that's great but you want to make sure you're getting leverage so you're going somewhere so therefore there's a scale but this is where roadmapping becomes really really important for every the technology side of the business you have to have a technology roadmap the other thing that's really important out of this is if you don't let's use the client-server example you used because this kind of has a you know we've all been here right here we've all lived seen this movie before yeah if you if you don't in the build this roadmap another thing that happens do you remember when CIOs finally said okay I'm taking control this client servicing sure what do they end up with they ended up with all these departments of computing in the costs work going astronomical so if you've got a road map you can also address the issues of managed services because you don't the least thing you want to be is having all these data Mart's that are scattered everywhere because you get no economies you get no economies of it but a cloud would bring you you get Noah kind you get no economies and being able to do that and you end up having to have all these maintenance teams you know that maintenance and by the way analytics by its nature has constant maintenance little adjustments and changes you're getting new economies of that because they're all managed is discrete units so therefore there's a lot to be as you build this roadmap you've got to think about the managed services environment as well so Fred you talked about earlier clients don't think in terms of data they think in terms of their business process is that a blind spot for clients because there are some companies Google for example that does think in terms of data in your view should clients increasingly be thinking in data terms or does our industry have to evolve to make the data map to business process I actually I kind of just take it as a thick I don't I don't I don't choose to question why I just accept it um i but i would say i which i would say customer's always right I just I just think the industry i thought that definitely but i think just the industries at a stage where you know we've always you know back in the old days of you know i'm going to show my age here but you know the procedure division in the data division oh my god looked at all and and and we you know the procedure division is where you actually did all the really and i think if the reason is we got understand the paradigm under which modern computing was created I don't to be like we go into history lesson but the paradigm under which modern computing was created was that we use computers to automate tasks so we've always taken this procedural approach which went then we went to process reengineering and that became a boardroom conversation so just I think we've conditioned over the last 40 years businesses to think about using technology to gain business efficiency they've always thought in terms of process so that's why this data element yeah companies like Google founded on analytics clearly have got a whole different headset in a different way to approach these which gives them a built-in bias when they address the problems they've got in their businesses sure but you don't come a decline saying hey you got to rethink the way in which you look at data you come in and say let's figure out how we can exploit data in your biz erect what we do it two ways we do it two ways first of all let me not dress let me not dress monton up as lamb at the end of the day it's its data its data okay now the question is how you articulate that and it's twofold we tend to I like to use a metaphor to describe the data so if its customer that the metaphor we've been using recently is DNA DNA strands to be able so you use a metaphor that there's a language that the business can relate to and you can create a common language very easy one in that way you can have an account because you're never going to drag a CEO into your fourth normal form data model so so therefore you've got to you've got to talk a language one number two you talk about as a collection of use cases so you use use cases as a vehicle to have the process conversation and because with the use case you also can talk business outcomes benefits and you can tell kind of a story you don't have to drag them through the details of the process but you can tell them a story whether it's you know I if you can understand called detailed called detailed data records and the affinities you can understand the social networks and therefore you can reduce churn within your telco customer base as an example quick but if you follow I do so you talked about its little use cases and they begin to understand wow what's possible and then you talk about their data as a DNA chain and they get I got it I actually need to get the DNA chain if I'm going to actually think about think about my customer base or my product base or whatever the lingua franca the business is still the businesses language it doesn't result of data but data can enrich the conversation in a way that can lead to new outcomes the data in rich's the conversation when you talk about the business outcomes that are created as the part of the use case well it's like a three third order differential equation but i go back i watch this yeah i just go say your tweet your epic soundbite machine just can't type fast enough on the crowd chat it's good for good for Twitter viewing yeah I've just opened a Twitter account please look me up I'm looking for friends I promise to start posting you got people watching all right all right so so in terms of customers right give us a little bit peak of some of the customer responses when you when you open the kimono show them the road map you know the messaging around on IBM right now is pretty tight here at IOD last year was good this year is better you look really unified face to the customer when you show them the road map what's the feeling they get it they feel like okay I got some trust IBM's got some track record history do they is the is the emotion more of okay where do I jump in how do I jump in there doing it and this little shadow IT going on all over the place we know with Amazon out the area so so when you're in there you've got to have these are conversations what do they like and what's that what's the level of response you get from CIOs and then also the folks in the trenches so there's always a question which there's a couple of questions first of all is how can I get how can I get value from this and that in that and that's you know a I'm tightly coupled to my existing transaction processing which is kind of like if you will call that turbocharged bi and and which is which is where so many people have come from is this turbocharged bi environment and listen that's an important part of your reporting business you need to do that to keep the wheels on the question is as you move to this notion of analytics giving you great insight then then you've got to say okay I need to go from turbocharged bi to really augmented components so clients I'd say there's a large there's a large group of people that are right now moving from turbocharged bi to the notion advanced use cases so there's this some disco a large discussion right now how do I show me do use cases by which i can I can rapidly that would be advanced how to linux up the calling advance limit well no we have well 60 60 use cases industry-based use cases that we as a services business put together on top of that we have about seven or eight key code fragments that we uses accelerators I mean we call them wink we call them assets and we just them up as accelerators but their code fragments that we bring to a client as the basis that we put on top of the the blue stack of technology to actually get them a speed to value because we really want to be able to get clients up and running within this notion of non idealities it's like literally being best practices in the form of technology to the customers well you're on an IBM thing I mean dare I called an application no I wouldn't dare call it an application we're not in that business but the point is is that it is it's starting to feel like an application because it's really moving down these unreal integrated solution is really where we going it's an accelerant this code correct so it's leverage the economies of scale is every success breeds that's exactly it more and then on top of that we would have that just don't throw a few other things that we do to accelerate these things we actually have five what we call signature solutions which is services software together with a piece of services code coming together to solve a problem we've got that round risk and fraud around customers I mean some specific very narrow things if somebody wants to you know because often IT departments they want to buy something they want to buy something they don't want to go down the parts they want to buy something and so fine here's a package solution let's go buy something um and then last but not least one thing we haven't talked much about but I always like to throw this out there because I think this is one of the things they and we didn't talk about it much in the main 10 or any better sessions but let's not forget about IBM research I'm really proud to report to you now since we started this category we've done 61st of a kinds with IBM Research so this is about client says I've got this problem i think it's unachievable i cannot solve this problem you know help me map in my oil exploration like things that are considered big problems big problems let's let's apply this group that does patent factory you know that IBM is but 15 years in a row let's apply those people to my our problems and we have 60 we have 16 so we do about 15 to 20 a year so it's not like we like we're not cranking these out like I'm hundreds of thousands of licenses but it's where basically our services business our software business and IBM Research go work on solving a client specific problem you heard Tim Buckman this morning when he was asked to know why IBM that was said IBM Research was the first answer that's right he gave we talked to him about that on the cube you know in his is insane me as a customer and we you know we always love to hear from customers I mean you know the splunk conference just had was just last week as an emerging startup because probably well aware of those guys they have customers that just say just glowing reports you get to the same same set of customers you know he is someone of high-caliber at the command and control in his healthcare mission and he's automating himself he it's and essentially creating this new data model that allows it to be pushed down to be listen you've got to do this and I'll tell you why you remember the the governance discussion is it was well I'm most excited about is the governance discussion five to eight years ago was an arcane discussion available of data modelers and like what do we do the governance discussion is quickly moving into the language of our business people and the reason is because they're beginning to do you remember the days of accounting systems when they say we want our accounting department to focus on analyzing the numbers and not collecting and forming the numbers well we're here again and if you've got good data governance you can focus on creating the insights and determining what actions you want from the insights as opposed to questioning the numbers and questioning the validity and the heritage of the number the validity and the heritage of the numbers and in this place everywhere yep financial services companies are the most stressed about it because the validity and heritage is required when you want to prove a compliance to a federal statute yes but it means everywhere if you're a consumer packaged goods company and you don't believe that sales are down in a certain market or a certain chain store first thing they do is they start challenging the numbers if you have good governance you can now start that you can now start to trust these systems of record but let's talk about data quality data quality but it's also the governess in the death of mindset is much broader iteration right how we said the first you know that folks from the nonprofit said you want to go on the record but he's basically saying I'll say basically when you put stuff out when you package and then bring it out it still might have some flaws in the data quality but it's the iteration is transformational but once that's in market saying that's changing he things prepare pre-packaging data and then bringing it in is not the better approach but I want to ask you about the your what you just said about this governance conversation that is date the core of this debate around the data economy what is the data economy in your mind given what you do the history that you've lived through we've seen those movies now the cutting edge new wave that will create new well for new ways change from transform business all that stuff's great but what is the data conn what does that mean to business executives that they're focusing on outcomes is is it changing data governance is it changing the value chains is it changing what's your thoughts on that the data economy is about discovering those points of leverage that that the data tells you that your instincts don't the data tells you that your instincts don't one of my favorite stories three years ago four years ago we were called in and clients said this is my problem the going and problem was I got to take 200 million dollars out of my advertising spend budget two hundred million dollars out of my advertising spend was he's a retailer end and the problem is is out of my 600 million dollar advertising budget the problem I have is also have all kinds of interesting theories and models that my agencies have told me I'm not quite sure do I just take 200 off the board across the board do I take 200 off to minimize my risk just spread it around how do i how do I manage the process and what we actually did was we built a super super set of sophisticated analytics which tied to their transaction systems but also tied to their social media system so we also understood and what we did was we were able to understand which customer cohorts responded to which media types then we added one more parts of the model which is we understood the trending in the cost of free-to-air cable radio internet all the different media types and as we looked at the cost models of them and we understood which customer cohorts responded to which media types we suddenly realized that they were super saturated in certain media types they could like doubled their spin and they wouldn't got want any lift in the advertised in their in their sales what we did was we got 200 million out of their budget and increase they got 300 million incremental sales that Christmas season because we help them get really smart about the play let me tell you I tell us privately i maked media buyers look at me like like I'm like a pariah yeah but but it is actually really you know really started to rethink now there's just a really great example because I think we've all can relate to that but that's the data economy where you find these veins of gold in these simple correlations and from that simple correlation you can instantly go and your business you can get the lift listen I can get five percent I IBM get five percent ten percent lift in some small segment business I've got the volume that's going to make a significant difference to my share one small piece of data could open up a window kind of had with Jodie Foster we would contact words like one piece of data opens up a ton of new data I mean that totally is leverage and it changes the game for that customer and and that to me is that is the guts of the data economy identifying those correlations and and what we're finding is our most recent study we just released it here the thing the IB the IBM Institute for business value big data and analytics study w IBM com it's the Institute for bit I bv study on big data just released and said 75 percent of all companies that are outperforming their peers have said big data analytics is one of the key reasons and the human component not to put are all on machines it's really about it's an ardent science its a mix of both the math and the human piece well you know there's this notion of not only do you create the insight but you've got to take action on the insight you know it's not enough to know if I could predict for you who's going to win tonight's basketball game you still got to place the bet you still have to take action on the inside and so therefore this notion of action to insight is all about trust trust in the insight trust in the data and trust in the technology that the business trust the technology and it's until you take that leap of faith remember when the Indiana Jones movie when he liked the leap of faith and you've got to like to step out and take that leap of faith once you take that leap of faith in you suddenly have trust in the data so that's that trust to mention and that's a human thing that's not a that's that's not a that's an organizational thing that is not a lot of technology in that one okay Fred we gotta wrap up i'll give you the final word for the folks out there quickly put a bumper sticker on iod this year's and put on my car when I Drive home what's that bumper sticker say for this year it's not all about the technology but it starts with the technology ok we're here live in Las Vegas we're going to take about that bet that was going to win the games and I will be the sports book later this is the cube live in Las Vegas for information on demand hashtag IBM iod this tequila right back with our next guest if the short break exclusive coverage from information on demand ibm's premier conference we write back the q