>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by the M Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, Welcome back, everyone to the Cubes Live coverage of the Emerald 2019. I'm John Career with Lycos Day, Volante Dave. 10 years covering the Q Weird Mosconi and 2010 boy Lots changed, but >> it's still the >> platform that Palmer Ritz laid out. But the stuff filling in 10 years later. >> Okay, you call that software mainframe and Robin came in so I can't call Mainframe Way >> Have leaders from PM Wears Largest business unit. The Cloud Platform Business Kid Colbert to CTO and Christmas R S v P and General Manager Guys, Thanks for coming on The key. Appreciate. >> Yeah, that's for having us. The >> world's your business units smoking hot. It's very popular, like you run around doing meetings. Cloud platform is the software model that's 10 years later actually happening at scale. Congratulations. What's the What's the big news? What's the big conversation for you guys? >> Yeah, the biggest news this week is the announcement of project specific, and, um, it's about taking the platform a Jess, um, hundreds of thousands of customers on it and bringing together communities were just now very popular with the developers and that black form together so that operators, on the one hand, can just deal with the platform they love. And the developers can deal with the kubernetes layer that they love. >> It's interesting to watch because, you know, the whole end user computing stack that was laid out 10 years ago is actually happening now, Assassin see, sass business models. We all see the and half of them is on the success of Cloud. But interesting to see kubernetes, which we've been following since the report started. Open stack days. You saw that emerging. Everyone kind of saw that. And it really became a nice layer. And the industry just create as a de facto. Yeah, you guys were actually driving that more forward. So congratulations on that. >> That's sitting it >> natively in V sphere is interesting because you guys spend a ton of time. This is a core product for you guys. So you're bringing something native into V sphere? I'm sure there's a lot of debates internally how to do that, kid. What's that? What is the relevance workers. You guys have a lot of efficiencies and be severe, but bring in kubernetes is gonna give you some new things. What, >> So the thinking is really you know, it's Christmas mentioning. How do we take this proven platform? Move it forward. Customers have moved millions of work clothes on top of the sphere, operate them in production, the Prussian great capabilities, and so they'd be able to be very successful in that. And so the question is, how do we help them move forward in the kubernetes? You know, you mentioned Crew readies is still fairly young, the ecosystem around. It's still somewhat immature, still growing right, and it's a very different environment than what folks are used to who used the sphere. So there's a big challenge that customers have around managing multiple environments. All the training that's different, all the tools that are different so we can actually take their investments. They've already made into V sphere leverage and extend those into the kubernetes world that's really powerful. We'll help our customers take all these millions of workloads and move them forward. It's >> interesting because we were always speculating about being where I started Jerry Chan when he was on yesterday. He's been of'em where since early days, you know, but looking at VM where when they went to their you guys went back to your core When we be cloud air kind of win its way and then you deal them is on since the stock price has been going great, So great chair older takeover value there. But you got clarity around what cloud was. And as you look at the operator target audience, you guys have the operators and the devil and ops is critical. So you guys have been operating a lot of work, Liz and I think this is fascinating. So the role of containers is super relevant because you got V EMS and containers. So again, the debate continues. >> Well, I think >> Tainer is wrong. Where Bond, It's interesting conversation because kubernetes is orchestrating all that >> while the snarky treat tweet Oh day and you guys feel free to come. It was Oh, I thought we started launch pivotal. So we didn't have to run containers on virtual machines. Yeah, we know that people run containers on bare metal. They run containers and virtual machines, but >> yeah, It's a debate that that we hear pop up on the on the snarky Twitter feeds and so forth. We'll talk to customers about it. You know, this whole VM versus container debate, I think, really misses the point because it's not really about that. What it's about is how do I actually operate? These were close in production, right? This kind of this three pillows we talk about build, run, manage. Custer's want to accelerate that They won't do that with enterprise, great capabilities with security. And so that's where it really gets challenging. And I think you know, we've built this amazing ecosystem around desire to achieve that. And so that's what we're taking forward here. And, yes, the fact that we're using fertilization of the covers, that's an implementation detail. Almost. What's more, valuables? All the stuff above that the manageability, the operational capabilities. That's a real problem. It seems to >> me, to the business impact because, okay, people going to go to the cloud, they're gonna build cloud native acts. But you've got all these incumbent companies trying not to get disrupted to trying to find new opportunities, playing offense and defense at the same time, they need tooling to be able to do that. They don't want to take their e r p ap and stick it in the cloud, right? They want to modernize it. And you know you're not gonna build that overnight in the cloud anyway, so they need help. >> That's the the key move that we made here. If you if you think about it, customers don't have kubernetes experts right today and most of them in their journey to the mortar naps. They're saying, Hey, we need to set up two stacks. At least we are if we immerse stack that we love. And now communities are developers laws. So we have to stand up and they don't have any in house experts to do that right? And with this one move, we have actually collapsed it back to one stack. >> Yeah, I think it's a brilliant move. Actually, it's brilliant because the Dev ops ethos has proven everyone wants to be there, all right. And the question is, who's leading? Who is lagging? So ops has traditionally lagged. If you look at it from the developer standpoint, you guys have not been lagging on the we certainly have tons of'em virtualization been standardized. Its unifying. Yeah, the two worlds together, and it really as we've been calling it cloud two point. Oh, because if you look at what hybrid really is, it's cloud two point. Oh, yeah. Cloud one data was Dev Ops Storage and compute Amazon. You're born in the cloud. We we have no I t department 50 people. Why would we ever and developers are the operators? Yeah, so we shall. Enterprise scale. It's not that easy. So I love to get your thoughts on how you guys would frame the cloud two point. Oh, Visa vi. If cloud one does storage and compute and Amazon like scale, what is cloud to point out to you? >> Yeah, well, I think so. Let's talk about the cloud journey. I think that's what you're getting at here. So here's how it discuss it with customers. You are where you are today. You have your existing apse. A lot of them are monolithic. You're slow to update. Um, you know, so forthright. And then you have some of the cloud NATO nirvana over here. We're like everything's re architected. It's Micro Service's got all these containers off, so >> it doesn't run my business >> well, yeah, well, that's what I want to get to. I think the challenge, the challenge is it's a huge amount of effort to get there, right, All the training we're talking about, all the tooling and the all the changes there, and people tend to look at. This is a very binary thing, right that you're there. Here where you are, you're in the club, New Nirvana. People don't often talk about what's in the middle and the fact that it's a spectrum. And I think what we used to get a V M, where is like, let's meet customers where they are, You know, I think one of the big realizations we had, it's not. Everyone needs to get every single application on this far side over here. Some halfs, your pieces, whatever you know, it's fine to get them a little bit of the way there, and so one of the things that we saw with the M A coordinated us, for example, was that people there was a pent up demand to move to the public cloud. But it was challenging because to go from a visa environment on Prem to an eight of US native environment to change a bunch of things that tooling changes like the environment a little bit different, but with a mark, our native us, there's no modifications at all. You just little evey motion it. And some people have you motioning things like insanely fast now, without modifying the half you can't get you know something you have to suddenly better scalable. But you get other cloud benefits. You get things like, Oh, my infrastructure is dynamic. I can add host dynamically only pay for what I need. Aiken consume this as a service. And so we help moving. We have to move there. There were clothes a little bit in the middle of the spectrum there, and I think what we're doing with Project Pacific and could realise is the same thing. They start taking advantage of these great kubernetes capabilities for their existing APs without modification. So again, kind of moving them further in that middle spectrum and then, you know, for the absolute really make a difference to their business. They can put in the effort to get all the way over there, >> and we saw that some of the evidence of some challenges of that shiny new trend within the dupe ecosystem. Big data objects to army. Who doesn't love that concept, right? Yeah, map produced. But what happened was is that the infrastructure costs on the personnel human capital cost was so massive that and then cloud cloud came along and >> just go out. There is also the other point about just just just a bespoke tooling that >> technology, right, Then the disruptions to create, you know to that, then the investments that it takes. Two >> you had a skill and you had a skills gap in terms of people have been. So that brings us back to So how do you address that problem? Because most of the audience out here, not developers. Yeah. Yeah. Total has the developers connection. So >> this is one of the really cool things about Pacific that what we've done with Pacific when you look at it from an I T. Operations, one of you that person sees v sphere the tool they already know and use understand it. Well, when a developer looks at it, they see kubernetes. And so this is two different viewpoints. Got like, you know, the blind men around the elephant. But, um but the thing is is actually a singular thing in the back end, right? You know, they have these two different views. And so the cool thing about us, we can actually bring items and developers together that they can use their own language tools process. But there's a common thing that they're talking about. They have common visibility into that, and that's super, super powerful. And when you look at, it also is happening on the kubernetes side is fully visible in the V's here side. So all these tools that already work against the sphere suddenly light up and support kubernetes automatically. So again, without any work, we suddenly get so much more benefit. >> And the category Buster's, they're going on to that. You're changing your taking software approach that your guys No, you're taking it to the software developer world. It's kind of changing the game. One of things. I want to get your thoughts on Cloud to point out because, you know, if computing storage was cloud one dato, we're seeing networking and security and data becoming critical ingredients that are problems statement areas people are working on. Certainly networking you guys are in that. So as cloud chip one is gonna take into the fact that messy middle between, you know, I'm on here and then I want the Nirvana, as always, the origination story and the outcomes and stories. Always great. But the missing messy middle. As you were pointing out, it's hard. How do you guys? >> And if you look at the moves that we made in the Do You know about the big fusion acquisition that remained right, which happened, like a month ago, and it was about preparing the platform, our foray I animal or clothes? So really, what we're trying to do is really make sure that the history of platform is ready for the modern applications, right? I am along one side communities applications, you know, service oriented applications. All of them can land on the same platform and more and more. Whether it's the I am l or other application, they're being written on top of communities that structures code. Yeah, nothing like Jenna's well, so enable incriminating will help us land all the modern applications on top of the same platform that our customers are used to. So it's a huge kind of a inflection point in the industry from my >> wealthy earlier point, every CEO I talked to said, I want to get from point A to point B and I wanna spend a billion dollars to get there. I don't wanna have to hire some systems integrator and outsource to get any there. Show me how I get without, you know, destroying my >> business. How did we meet the customers where they're at, right? Like what? The problem with this, the kind of either or model you're here you're there is that there's a huge opportunity costs. And again, Well, if you will just need a little bit of goodness, they don't need the full crazy nirvana Goodness right? And so we enable them to get that very easily in automated way, right? If you'd just been any time re factoring or thinking through this app that takes months or even a year or more, and so you know that this the speed that we can unleash her The velocity for these customers is >> the benefit of that. Nirvana is always taken out of context because people look at the outcome over over generations and saying, Well, I want to be there but it all starts with a very variable basis in shadow. I used to call it, but don't go in the cloud and do something really small, simple. And then why? This is much more official. I like this stack or this approach. That's ultimately how it gets there. So I got to get I got to get that point for infrastructures code because this is what you're enabling. Envies, fearful when I see I want to get your reaction. This because the world used to be. And I ask Elsa on this years ago, and he kind of validated it. But because he's old school, Intel infrastructure dictated to the applications what it could do based on what it could do. Now it's flipped upside down with cloud platform platform and implies enabling something enabling platform. Whatever you call the APs are dictating for the infrastructure. I need this. That's infrastructure is code. That's kind of what you're saying is that >> I mean, look kubernetes broader pattern time. It said, Hey, I can declare what I want, right, and then the system will take care of it and made in that state. I decided state execution is what it brought to the table, and the container based abs, um, have already been working that way. What this announcement does with Project Pacific is that the BM applications that our customers built in the past they are going to be able to take advantage of the same pattern, just the infrastructure escort declarative and decide state execution That that's going to happen even for the old workload, said our customer service >> and they still do viens. I mean, they're scaled 1000 the way >> they operate the same pattern. I >> mean, Paul Morris doesn't get enough credit for the comedy made in 2010. He called it the hardened top. Do you really care what's underneath if it's working effectively? >> Well, I mean, I think you know the reality today is that even though containers that get all get a lot of coverage and attention, most were close to being provisioned. New workloads even are being provisioning v EMS, right? If you look at AWS, the public clouds, I mean, is the E c to our ah go compute engine. Those service's those VM so once they're getting heavily used. And so the way we look at it, if we want to support everything. And it's just going to give customers a bunch of tools in their tool box. And let's put on used the right tool for the right job. Right? That's what the mentality >> that's really clouds. You know, Chris, I want to get your you know, I want to nail you down on the definition of two point. Uh, what is your version? Come on. We keep dodging around, get it out. Come on. >> I think we touched on all aspects of it. Which one is the interesting, less court allowing the consumer of the cloud to be able to dictate the environment in which the applications will operate and the consumer is defining it or the developers to defining it. In this case, that, to me, is the biggest shift that we have gone through in the Colorado. Yeah, and we're just making our platform come to life to support >> that. We're taking the cube serving. We'll put all together, and we want the community to define it, not us. What does it explain? The honest what it means to be a project and has a project Get into it. An offering? >> I mean, so Project Pacific is vey sphere, right? I mean, this is a massive, rethinking re architecture of Easter. Like pretty much every major subsystem component within Visa has been updated with this effort. Um, what we're doing here is what we've technically announced is actually what we call a technical preview. So saying, Hey, this is technology we're working on. We think it's really interesting We want to share with the public, get the public's feedback, you know, figure out a way on the right direction or not. We're not making any commitment, releasing it or any time frames yet. Um, but so part of that needed a name, right? And so because it is easier, but it's a specific thing. We're doing the feast here, so that's where the project comes from. I think it also gives that, you know, this thing has been a huge effort internally, right? There's a lot of work that's gone into it. So you know, it has some heft and deserves a name Min itself. >> It's Dev Ops to pointed. Your reds bring in. You making your infrastructure truly enable program out from amble for perhaps a tsunami. >> The one thing I would say is we wouldn't announce it as a project if it was not coming soon. I mean, we still are in the process. Getting feedback will turn it on or not. But it it's not something that is way out. Then it's It is going to come. >> It's a clear direction. It's a statement of putting investment into his code and going on to course correct. Get some feedback at exactly. But it's pretty obvious you can go a lot of pain. Oh, yeah, isn't easy button for combat. He's >> easy on the >> future. I think it's a great move. Congratulations. We're big fans of kubernetes. So the guys last night having a little meeting Marriott thinking up the next battle plans for game plan for you guys. So, yeah, I >> thought this is just the tip of the iceberg. We had a lot of really, really cool stuff we're doing. >> We're gonna be following the cloud platform. Your progress? Certainly. Recovering. Cloud two point. Oh, looking at these new categories that are emerging again. The end state is Dev Ops Program ability. Apple cases, the Cube coverage, 10th year covering VM world. We're in the lobby of Mosconi in San Francisco. I'm John Favorite Day Volonte. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Day two of live coverage of the Cube here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit twenty nineteen. I'm John Career with Jeff Brick, Our next guest needing Stallman, managing director of a Censure Interactive. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> You can't miss your booth when you walk in. Got a nice set up there. You guys got a big prominent location to show. Tell us about Ascension Interactive. And what you guys doing the show? >> Oh, yeah. So thanks again for having us is a great a great summit. A great conference. It's one of our big kind of showcases for the year. We've got a couple of different experiences Were demo ing this year. We've got some really cool X are experiences that people are coming by the booth and putting device is on and it really interacting with and having fun with. We've got some interesting topics around Trends in content creation, headless content, train three D, etcetera. So some great topix around kind of Howard disrupting marketing and content with our clients today. >> Contest becomes so important now, Not only is it you have content development creatives. You have all kinds of applications now. Integrating was once kind of a cottage industry of creative doing cool stuff. Now that's kind of table stakes. It's a whole another level of cloud computing meets creative, so it's kind of an interesting growth curve right now, you're seeing a lot of adoption, a lot of the kind of tools from Tech in with the creative talk about that dynamic, because that's kind of the whole show here. It's all about not just marketing Cloud, and it's about creative experiences and now the new cool stuff out there and people try to figure out how to do it. I want that dynamic of creative tech coming together. >> Yeah, it's enemy from Accenture Interactive. That's really kind of where we've built our business around having that as a technology company that's really drawing a lot of specific talent to build out that creative tak kind of talent mindset. It's a different way of kind of operating and working and building those experiences, so we're kind of first and foremost and experience agency S O. We're all about building experiences for our clients, and it's a kind of ah maybe unique patch that we've we've carved out for ourselves. To say you have to consider technology is part of it and data and effectiveness and analytics. But then, actually, how do you build experiences that are really engage our customers and be really innovative? So certainly has its center at interactive. That's our That's our remit. And we're working out some really exciting work with clients in that area >> about the difference between center interactive and century proper. Because we've done a lot of enemies with center you guys, we're different talked about. The difference is that you guys have and what what's your mission? >> So it's enter. Active are first and foremost. We are an experience agencies. So again, those experiences could be everything from your typical kind of website experience. And how do you best in engage consumers at your site to commerce? Teo X are so we've got a Z mentioned it, several different applications of experiences and x r that we're demo ing here, and we're working on with our clients, um, a R V r as well as sale stools. So in the centre interactive, we take it, we take a creator first, like what is the experience. We really need to build, do the right type of research and then bring in the design, talent and the unique kind of optimization, talent and technology talent to be able to ensure that whatever we're building for a client is actually scaleable for more than just kind of that one exciting news case they've got. But how do you ensure that that's really going to be the right platform in experience? They can scale for other parts of the enterprise of the parts of the business, etcetera. We're proud of who we are >> seriously, because you guys are involved in a lot of things. You keep saying x r for extended reality, and I think it's interesting because some people think it's got to be one hundred percent immersive or not. But if you guys air pioneering, this is a lot of places to kind of extend reality. Blend the rial and the C g. I. And it kind of had this mixed combo experience. So where people using that what are some of the interesting opportunities beyond no trying on a dress from the computer with your with your avatar that you guys are working on >> right, So so definitely have our share of kind of cool consumer experiences and, you know, wanting interesting. That's things that's happening in the market is consumers. They're expecting as they start to engage with RVR, even like immersive commerce. And, um, you're online configurations for shopping and it kind of configuring your own products. They're expecting the same level of, like, hi and visualization that they're getting in the programs and media that they're consuming at home. So getting that right is that's That's a challenge for a lot of brands, and it's a challenge. And technologies, they're changing pretty rapidly to support that. So we've got an experience here were demo ing this week, which is is really on kind of that high end past, which is allowing your design your own your own bathroom experience with countertops, and it's so realistic that you can literally you feel like you could touch that. You could appreciate the textures. You can touch the experience. So it's it's really helping to kind of give customers give consumers back control, but they don't have to rely on a contractor and other types of design services. They really have many options. They can see what that looks like in their own space. I can do that from the convenience of my home, etcetera, and that's kind of one end around. And it's still consumer facing and how to brands create more amorous of shopping experience and make that pass to purchase easier, effective, faster like and, you know, close well. The other types of experiences that I think you're really, really powerful and really interesting is it's starting to use x r for training purposes. So we just want to go home. Oh, actually at Mobile World Congress for PR experience that we built to train foster care professionals on go on making incredibly complicated is around what to do with families and children and really trained them. So how do you take a very subjective experience and train people for the different scenarios to make the right judgment calls? And so that's an interesting kind of application of X r. We're also doing X are in the field of service service technician, so working on automotives and ensuring your using hand, our virtual technology to be able Tio I understand, is that the right party should be working on and what are the best practices around around, whether it's a home technician that's going out and trying to install our complex device or working at an automotive so >> so practical use cases. And then there's also the glamorous ones, like Game of Thrones. Talk about you guys. The relationship with game of thrones is a dynamic. Their share want the shows so that the Cube we Go game of thrones fan. So you guys were somewhat involved in that Such share. >> Yeah, so on. And it's very timely. Obviously, with the final season coming out of the fourteenth, and for like, super fans like myself, it's It's been an exciting year for us. So, um, Extension Interactive has done a very deliberate Siri's of acquisitions over the past ten years, and last year we acquired MCA Vision. So Maga Vision was renowned internationally for their CD I and special effects work on DH. No. One of the most exciting words they've received is an Emmy for outstanding visual effects for game of thrones. So So you got a lot of buzz at the time saying, What is extension interactive? What's what's the kind of thought process, their game of thrones, visual effects, and it really was all about this idea of, you know, again, consumers are expecting this level of visual and this level of experience in how they're interacting with you. So, Mac, a vision was a very we needed a way to be more innovative and how we're bringing the right talent and capabilities to building X. Our experiences, product configurations, etcetera and maka vision had unique capability around three visualisation CG I visual effects and really that again, that whole package of kind of art and technology to create these very high end visualization experiences. So So it's been a really exciting here for us. Um, and starting to now take that model and start to bring that Teo marketing teams that were working within the brands e commerce teams and starting to say, How do we create these type of >> bond? That >> it's It's a nice looking the MCA vision sight and and some of the you know, they have some of the cool movie stuff. But I was fascinated by the car stuff, right? They have these beautiful car shots for car commercials, and I'm curious after hearing about, you know, a be testing and you know all the things that you could do with your experience in the dental experience. Interactive are seeing that now with I got forty seven versions of that car commercial because now if I'm doing it with Mac Division, I don't have to shoot forty seven versions. I can manipulate the CG I car in a very different way because I know that you said super high gloss, super high glam. But it's programmable, so you can do stuff with it without having to call the team together and hope for a beautiful day in Carmel to go over the bridge. >> Exactly all those variables. So I mean brands right now, as they're trying to kind of create trying tio react and set up models to support hyper personalization programmatic content in it that is so challenging. It's so challenging because traditional >> means of >> going out and doing the shoot that you're talking about and doing. Even product shots and tons of photography like you have to create so many versions so expensive to be able to support all of your products. All the variations when you put global into the mix and you've got different labels and different languages etcetera. So, again, it's a It's a scale problem today. I think a lot of people think it's a technology problem, but it's actually it's actually that that's a solution. But it's definitely it's a human problem. And so in our practice, we focus on content creation models. And so this is why Macrovision acquisition so essential is we were disrupting the way continents created, whether it's for brands and their their commercial spots or it's their commerce content. Or or there social media content. By using this idea of taking a digital twin of, let's say, the Mercedes or the Mercedes car and being able to take engineering data and visualize a product digitally before it even exists before I mean literally, the prototype is not available. You know this amazing flexibility. Teo certainly configure that in many different ways, digitally. For these shoots, all you need is some some background in Madrid, etcetera, to be able to roll the car through, um, and Tamar and Magic. But you're able, Tio, you're now able Teo, represent that product, get your media created and put it into market to start generating buzz presales, et cetera. I mean, that's that's so powerful. You're getting ahead of product launch. >> How did how are the cost dynamics changing? Because before you said, it's expensive to do is shoot Yes, but now you can do multiple flavors within the computer is just radically different economics, because I'm sure when they come in and say, I want you guys to game of thrones I want that kind of production value like, yeah, that's really the expectancy. Yeah, To do it in software is a completely different kind of approach. >> I mean, I don't know how brands are not going to give it to this model because they cannot possibly they cannot. They're goingto exponential cross to be able Teo, keep pace with again, even just the variation of product, much less starting to now. Personalize that or be ableto dynamically. Render that so. The cost model today is is is exorbitant, and it's just growing. And so this because you're now able to configure things digitally and again used the right tools to be able tio represent different versions of product changed. The backgrounds, change, change, any of the factors that you need to be able to say this is a new piece of content that. I think it's better targeted at this segment. You want to test that out a little bit. I don't want to kind of double down on that and ending for all of that cost to go do this. You gives you a ton of flexibility, especially, and how you're bringing you no talent in wants to shoot it once and then and that enviable to swap. For example, I may change the bracelet on the talent to do five different ads out instead of >> risk management to a swells testing. Knowing what you're looking at, getsem visibility into what success looks like then, kind of figuring it out. One thing I want to ask you is that in the tech business, we've always been fascinated by Moore's law doubling the speed of the processors. That's Intel thing. But if you look at what you guys do with the game of thrones on the high end with CG, I see the C g I and all the cool stuff. The experiences that people have today become the expectations or the expectations become the new experiences. So you've seen an accelerated user experience. Visually, you got gaming, culture, gaming environments. I mean fortnight wasn't around two years ago. Right? Half the world pretty much plays the game or you got game of thrones. So he's now will soon become table stakes, these kinds of experience. So I got to see where you guys are going with that. How does that change how you guys operate because you gotta look at the expectations of the users consumer. That might be the new experience. How to figure out that dynamic is challenging. How do you guys do that? What's the What's the guiding philosophy around that? That trend? >> Yes. So we have, um we're maniacal about ensuring that the experience for designing is really well thought through with the right research in the right input from us. We're on the right contact. So while it may sound like a great idea and it may sound like something you need, like, how do we make sure we're doing the right thing? Right? Diligence, Tio to build the red experience and represent the product in the right way. And then we also a maniacal on the back end of testing and after optimizing that so being very realistic about is it effective is a driving is driving. Whatever the K p I is, even if it's just innovation, is it driving the KP eyes, uh, that you need and then adjusting? Because nothing could be stagnant? He's >> super exciting area. I mean, there's so much opportunity and change going on. Awesome final questions about the relationship with the job You guys are here. Adobes got a whole growth strategy in front, and that looks really strongly gotta cloud technology platform. Now they're integrating data across multiple their modules in their suites. How does that impact you guys? What's your relationship with Adobe? Yes, >> so we are. We are very big partner of Adobe. We've had a accolades throughout the years of being partner of the year. So we have a large practice dedicated Teo helping clients really look at how to implement the stack howto build content and campaign delivery models on top of that. So it's, um, both the technology and an implement implementation focus, but quite frankly, and I think what's unique is a is a process and kind of how do you operational as that focus? Like I said, you know, everyone's talking about atomic comic, the atomic content these days and certainly, I mean the adobe stack. Absolutely. Khun support that And really power personalized dynamic content for you is a brand but operational operational izing. That is a totally different story. So we're really working with the Adobe team closely on with our customers. Tio kind of build the model on top of the stack and say, How do you need to change your organization to really, really get the value out of out of these tools and really deliver the experiences that are going to be differentiated? >> We've heard that all along all week here and other events we go to is that it's not the tech problem. It's these new capabilities being operationalized older cultures as a people process problem. >> Yeah, it seems >> to be the big, big story. >> It's a it's it's. And I would say it's an ongoing challenge for the brands we work within, and they're constantly getting additional. Um, uh, market demands to be able to kind of continue changing their model. Like I said, programmatic particularly and hyper personalization is is really putting that into practice is is >> great practice Navy. Thanks for coming on. Sharing your insights here on the I do appreciate it. Thank you very much >> for having me >> live coverage here in Dopey Summit twenty nineteen in Las Vegas. To keep coverage day to continue. Stay with us for more after this short break.

>> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. HOLLOWAY ALTO, California It is a cube conversation. >> Welcome to the special. Keep conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John for a co host of the Cube. Were Arsenal was a C I S O. C. So for Microsoft also corporate vice President, Chief information security. Thanks for joining me today. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. Thanks. So you have a really big job. You're a warrior in the industry, security is the hardest job on the planet. >> And hang in sight >> of every skirt. Officer is so hard. Tell us about the role of Microsoft. You have overlooked the entire thing. You report to the board, give us an overview of what >> happens. Yeah. I >> mean, it's you know, obviously we're pretty busy. Ah, in this world we have today with a lot of adversaries going on, an operational issues happening. And so I have responsibility. Accountability for obviously protecting Microsoft assets are customer assets. And then ah, And for me, with the trend also responsibility for business continuity Disaster recovery company >> on the sea. So job has been evolving. We're talking before the camera came on that it's coming to CEO CF roll years ago involved to a business leader. Where is the sea? So roll now in your industry is our is a formal title is it establishes their clear lines of reporting. How's it evolved? What's the current state of the market in terms of the sea? So it's roll? >> Yeah, the role is involved. A lot. Like you said, I think like the CIA or twenty years ago, you know, start from the back room of the front room and I think the, you know, one of things I look at in the role is it's really made it before things. There's technical architecture, there's business enablement. There's operational expert excellence. And then there's risk management and the older ah, what does find the right word? But the early see so model was really about the technical architecture. Today. It's really a blend of those four things. How do you enable your business to move forward? How do you take calculated risks or manage risks? And then how do you do it really effectively and efficiently, which is really a new suit and you look at them. You'LL see people evolving to those four functions. >> And who's your boss? Would you report to >> I report to a gentleman by the name of a curtain. Little Benny on DH. He is the chief digital officer, which would be a combination of Seo did officer and transformation as well as all of Microsoft corporate strategy >> and this broad board visibility, actually in security. >> Yeah, you >> guys, how is Microsoft evolved? You've been with the company for a long time >> in the >> old days ahead perimeters, and we talk about on the Cube all the time. When a criminalist environment. Now there's no perimeter. Yeah, the world's changed. How is Microsoft evolved? Its its view on security Has it evolved from central groups to decentralize? How is it how how was it managed? What's the what's the current state of the art for security organization? >> Well, I think that, you know, you raise a good point, though things have changed. And so in this idea, where there is this, you know, perimeter and you demanded everything through the network that was great. But in a client to cloak cloud world, we have today with mobile devices and proliferation or cloud services, and I ot the model just doesn't work anymore. So we sort of simplified it down into Well, we should go with this, you know, people calls your trust, I refer to It is just don't talk to strangers. But the idea being is this really so simplified, which is you've got to have a good identity, strong identity to participate. You have to have managed in healthy device to participate, to talk to, ah, Microsoft Asset. And then you have to have data in telemetry that surrounds that all the time. And so you basically have a trust, trust and then verify model between those three things. And that's really the fundamental. It's really that simple. >> David Lava as Pascal senior with twenty twelve when he was M. C before he was the C E O. V M. Where he said, You know his security do over and he was like, Yes, it's going to be a do over its opportunity. What's your thoughts on that perspective? Has there been a do over? Is it to do over our people looking at security and a whole new way? What's your thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean, I've been around security for a long time, and it's there's obviously changes in Massa nations that happened obviously, at Microsoft. At one point we had a security division. I was the CTO in that division, and we really thought the better way to do it was make security baked in all the products that we do. Everything has security baked in. And so we step back and really change the way we thought about it. To make it easier for developers for end users for admin, that is just a holistic part of the experience. So again, the technology really should disappear. If you really want to be affected, I think >> don't make it a happy thought. Make it baked in from Day one on new product development and new opportunity. >> Yeah, basically, shift the whole thing left. Put it right in from the beginning. And so then, therefore, it's a better experience for everyone using it. >> So one of things we've observed over the past ten years of doing the Cube when do first rolled up with scene, you know, big data role of date has been critical, and I think one of the things that's interesting is, as you get data into the system, you can use day that contextually and look at the contextual behavioral data. It's really is create some visibility into things you, Meyer may not have seen before. Your thoughts and reaction to the concept of leveraging data because you guys get a lot of data. How do you leverage the data? What's the view of data? New data will make things different. Different perspectives creates more visibility. Is that the right view? What's your thoughts on the role of Data World Data plays? >> Well, they're gonna say, You know, we had this idea. There's identity, there's device. And then there's the data telemetry. That platform becomes everything we do, what there's just security and are anomalous behavior like you were talking about. It is how do we improve the user experience all the way through? And so we use it to the service health indicator as well. I think the one thing we've learned, though, is I was building where the biggest data repositories your head for some time. Like we look at about a six point five trillion different security events a day in any given day, and so sort of. How do you filter through that? Manage? That's pretty amazing, says six point five trillion >> per day >> events per day as >> coming into Microsoft's >> that we run through the >> ecosystem your systems. Your computers? >> Yeah. About thirty five hundred people. Reason over that. So you can Certainly the math. You need us. Um, pretty good. Pretty good technology to make it work effectively for you and efficiently >> at RC A Heard a quote on the floor and on the q kind of echoing the same sentiment is you can't hire your way to success in this market is just not enough people qualified and jobs available to handle the volume and the velocity of the data coming in. Automation plays a critical role. Your reaction to that comment thoughts on? >> Well, I think I think the cure there, John, those when you talk about the volume of the data because there's what we used to call speeds and feeds, right? How big is it? And I used to get great network data so I can share a little because we've talked, like from the nineties or whatever period that were there. Like the network was everything, but it turns out much like a diverse workforce creates the best products. It turns out diverse data is more important than speeds and feeds. So, for example, authentication data map to, you know, email data map to end point data map. TEO SERVICE DATA Soon you're hosting, you know, the number of customers. We are like financial sector data vs Healthcare Data. And so it's the ability Teo actually do correlation across that diverse set of data that really differentiates it. So X is an example. We update one point two billion devices every single month. We do six hundred thirty billion authentications every single month. And so the ability to start correlating those things and movement give us a set of insights to protect people like we never had before. >> That's interesting telemetry you're getting in the marketplace. Plus, you have the systems to bring it in >> a pressure pressure coming just realized. And this all with this consent we don't do without consent, we would never do without consent. >> Of course, you guys have the terms of service. You guys do a good job on that, But I think the point that I'm seeing there is that you guys are Microsoft. Microsoft got a lot of access. Get a lot of stuff out there. How does an enterprise move to that divers model because they will have email, obviously. But they have devices. So you guys are kind of operating? I would say tear one of the level of that environment cause you're Microsoft. I'm sure the big scale players to that. I'm just an enterprising I'm a bank or I'm an insurance company or I'm in oil and gas, Whatever the vertical. Maybe. What do I do if I'm the sea? So they're So what does that mean, Diversity? How should they? >> Well, I think they have a diverse set of data as well. Also, if they participate, you know, even in our platform today, we you know, we have this thing called the security graph, which is an FBI people can tap into and tap into the same graph that I use and so they can use that same graph particular for them. They can use our security experts to help them with that if they don't have the all the resource and staff to go do that. So we provide both both models for that to happen, and I think that's why a unique perspective I should think should remind myself of which is we should have these three things. We have a really good security operations group we have. I think that makes us pretty unique that people can leverage. We build this stuff into the product, which I think is good. But then the partnership, the other partners who play in the graph, it's not just us. So there's lots of people who play on that as well. >> So like to ask you two lines of questions. Wanting on the internal complex is that organizations will have on the external complexity and realities of threats and coming in. How do they? How do you balance that out? What's your vision on that? Because, you know, actually, there's technology, his culture and people, you know in those gaps and capabilities on on all three. Yeah, internally just getting the culture right and then dealing with the external. How does a C so about his company's balance? Those realities? >> Well, I think you raised a really good point, which is how do you move the culture for? That's a big conversation We always have. And that was sort of, you know, it's interesting because the the one side we have thirty five hundred people who have security title in their job, But there's over one hundred thousand people who every day part of their job is doing security, making sure they'LL understand that and know that is a key part we should reinforce everyday on DSO. But I think balancing it is, is for me. It's actually simplifying just a set of priorities because there's no shortage of, you know, vendors who play in the space. There's no shortage of things you can read about. And so for us it was just simplifying it down and getting it. That simplifies simplified view of these are the three things we're going to go do we build onerous platform to prioritize relative to threat, and then and then we ensure we're building quality products. Those five things make it happen. >> I'd like to get your thoughts on common You have again Before I came on camera around how you guys view simplification terminal. You know, you guys have a lot of countries, the board level, and then also you made a common around trust of security and you an analogy around putting that drops in a bucket. So first talk about the simplification, how you guys simplifying it and why? Why is that important? >> You think we supply two things one was just supplying the message to people understood the identity of the device and making sure everything is emitting the right telemetry. The second part that was like for us but a Z to be illustrative security passwords like we started with this technology thing and we're going to do to FAA. We had cards and we had readers and oh, my God, we go talk to a user. We say we're going to put two FAA everywhere and you could just see recoil and please, >> no. And then >> just a simple change of being vision letters. And how about this? We're just going to get rid of passwords then People loved like they're super excited about it. And so, you know, we moved to this idea of, you know, we always said this know something, know something new, how something have something like a card And they said, What about just be something and be done with it? And so, you know, we built a lot of the capability natively into the product into windows, obviously, but I supported energies environment. So I you know, I support a lot of Mac clinics and IOS and Android as well So you've read it. Both models you could use by or you could use your device. >> That's that. That's that seems to be a trend. Actually, See that with phones as well as this. Who you are is the password and why is the support? Because Is it because of these abuses? Just easy to program? What's the thought process? >> I think there's two things that make it super helpful for us. One is when you do the biometric model. Well, first of all, to your point, the the user experience is so much better. Like we walk up to a device and it just comes on. So there's no typing this in No miss typing my password. And, you know, we talked earlier, and that was the most popular passwords in Seattle with Seahawks two thousand seventeen. You can guess why, but it would meet the complexity requirements. And so the idea is, just eliminate all that altogether. You walk up machine, recognize you, and you're often running s o. The user experience is great, but plus it's Actually the entropy is harder in the biometric, which makes it harder for people to break it, but also more importantly, it's bound locally to the device. You can't run it from somewhere else. And that's the big thing that I think people misunderstanding that scenario, which is you have to be local to that. To me, that's a >> great example of rethinking the security paradigm. Exactly. Let's talk about trust and security. You you have an opinion on this. I want to get your thoughts, the difference between trust and security so they go hand in hand at the same time. They could be confused. Your thoughts on this >> well being. You can have great trust. You can, so you can have great security. But you generally and you would hope that would equate like a direct correlation to trust. But it's not. You need to you build trust. I think our CEO said it best a long time ago. You put one bucket of water, one bucket. Sorry, one truffle water in the bucket every time. And that's how you build trust. Over time, my teenager will tell you that, and then you kick it over and you put it on the floor. So you have to. It's always this ratcheting up bar that builds trust. >> They doing great you got a bucket of water, you got a lot of trust, that one breach. It's over right, >> and you've got to go rebuild it and you've got to start all over again. And so key, obviously, is not to have that happen. But then, that's why we make sure you have operational rigor and >> great example that just totally is looking Facebook. Great. They have massive great security. What really went down this past week, but still the trust factor on just some of the other or societal questions? >> Yeah, >> and that something Do it. >> Security. Yeah, I think that's a large part of making sure you know you're being true. That's what I said before about, you know, we make sure we have consent. We're transparent about how we do the things we do, and that's probably the best ways to build trust. >> Okay, so you guys have been successful in Microsoft, just kind of tight the company for second to your role. It's pretty well documented that the stock prices at an all time high. So if Donatella Cube alumni, by the way, has been on the cue before he he took over and clear he didn't pivot. He just said we'd go in the cloud. And so the great moves, he don't eat a lot of great stuff. Open source from open compute to over the source. And this ship has turned and everything's going great. But that cheering the cloud has been great for the company. So I gotta ask you, as you guys move to the cloud, the impact to your businesses multi fold one products, ecosystem suppliers. All these things are changing. How has security role in the sea? So position been impact that what have you guys done? How does that impact security in general? Thoughts? >> Yeah, I think we obviously were like any other enterprise we had thousands of online are thousands of line of business applications, and we did a transformation, and we took a method logical approach with risk management. And we said, Okay, well, this thirty percent we should just get rid of and decommission these. We should, you know, optimize and just lifting shifting application. That cloud was okay, but it turns out there's massive benefit there, like for elasticity. Think of things that quarterly reporting or and you'll surveys or things like that where you could just dynamically grow and shrink your platform, which was awesome linear scale that we never had Cause those events I talk about would require re architectures. Separate function now becomes linear. And so I think there is a lot of things from a security perspective I could do in a much more efficient must wear a fish. In fact, they're then I had to have done it before, but also much more effective. I just have compute capability. Didn't have I have signal I didn't have. And so we had to wrap her head around that right and and figure out how to really leverage that. And to be honest, get the point. We're exploited because you were the MySpace. I have disaster and continent and business. This is processed stuff. And so, you know, everyone build dark fiber, big data centers, storage, active, active. And now when you use a platform is a service like on that kind of azure. You could just click a Bach and say, I want this thing to replicate. It also feeds your >> most diverse data and getting the data into the system that you throw a bunch of computer at that scale. So What diverse data? How does that impact the good guys and the bad guys? That doesn't tip the scales? Because if you have divers date and you have his ability, it's a race for who has the most data because more data diversity increases the aperture and our visibility into events. >> Yeah, I you >> know, I should be careful. I feel like I always This's a job. You always feel like you're treading water and trying to trying to stay ahead. But I think that, um, I think for the first time in my tenure do this. I feel there's an asymmetry that benefits. They're good guys in this case because of the fact that your ability to reason over large sets of data like that and is computed data intensive and it will be much harder for them like they could generally use encryption were effectively than some organization because the one the many relationship that happens in that scenario. But in the data center you can't. So at least for now, I feel like there's a tip This. The scales have tipped a bit for the >> guy that you're right on that one. I think it's good observation I think that industry inside look at the activity around, from new fund adventures to overall activity on the analytics side. Clearly, the data edge is going to be an advantage. I think that's a great point. Okay, that's how about the explosion of devices we're seeing now. An explosion of pipe enabled devices, Internet of things to the edge. Operational technologies are out there that in factory floors, everything being I P enables, kind of reminds me of the old days. Were Internet population you'd never uses on the Internet is growing, and >> that costs a lot >> of change in value, creation and opportunities devices. Air coming on both physical and software enabled at a massive rate is causing a lot of change in the industry. Certainly from a security posture standpoint, you have more surface area, but they're still in opportunity to either help on the do over, but also create value your thoughts on this exploding device a landscape, >> I think your Boston background. So Metcalfe's law was the value the net because the number of the nodes on the network squared right, and so it was a tense to still be true, and it continues to grow. I think there's a huge value and the device is there. I mean, if you look at the things we could do today, whether it's this watch or you know your smartphone or your smart home or whatever it is, it's just it's pretty unprecedented the capabilities and not just in those, but even in emerging markets where you see the things people are doing with, you know, with phones and Lauren phones that you just didn't have access to from information, you know, democratization of information and analysis. I think it's fantastic. I do think, though, on the devices there's a set of devices that don't have the same capabilities as some of the more markets, so they don't have encryption capability. They don't have some of those things. And, you know, one of Microsoft's responses to that was everything. Has an M see you in it, right? And so we, you know, without your spirit, we created our own emcee. That did give you the ability to update it, to secure, to run it and manage it. And I think that's one of the things we're doing to try to help, which is to start making these I, O. T or Smart devices, but at a very low cost point that still gives you the ability because the farm would not be healed Update, which we learn an O. T. Is that over time new techniques happen And you I can't update the system >> from That's getting down to the product level with security and also having the data great threats. So final final talk Tracking one today with you on this, your warrior in the industry, I said earlier. See, so is a hard job you're constantly dealing with compliance to, you know, current attacks, new vector, new strains of malware. And it's all over the map. You got it. You got got the inbound coming in and you got to deal with all that the blocking and tackling of the organization. >> What do you What do >> you finding as best practice? What's the what if some of the things on the cso's checklist that you're constantly worried about and or investing in what some of >> the yeah, >> the day to day take us through the day to day life >> of visited a lot? Yeah, it >> starts with not a Leslie. That's the first thing you have to get used to, but I think the you know again, like I said, there's risk Manager. Just prioritize your center. This is different for every company like for us. You know, hackers don't break and they just log in. And so identity still is one of the top things. People have to go work on him. You know, get rid of passwords is good for the user, but good for the system. We see a lot in supply chain going on right now. Obviously, you mentioned in the Cambridge Analytical Analytics where we had that issue. It's just down the supply chain. And when you look at not just third party but forthe party fifth party supply and just the time it takes to respond is longer. So that's something that we need to continue to work on. And then I think you know that those are some of the other big thing that was again about this. How do you become effective and efficient and how you managed that supply chain like, You know, I've been on a mission for three years to reduce my number of suppliers by about fifty percent, and there's still lots of work to do there, but it's just getting better leverage from the supplier I have, as well as taking on new capability or things that we maybe providing natively. But at the end of the day, if you have one system that could do what four systems going Teo going back to the war for talent, having people, no forces and versus one system, it's just way better for official use of talent. And and obviously, simplicity is the is the friend of security. Where is entropy is not, >> and also you mentioned quality data diversity it is you're into. But also there's also quality date of you have quality and diverse data. You could have a nice, nice mechanism to get machine learning going well, but that's kind of complex, because in the thie modes of security breaches, you got pre breached in breech post breach. All have different data characteristics all flowing together, so you can't just throw that answer across as a prism across the problem sets correct. This is super important, kind of fundamentally, >> yeah, but I think I >> would I would. The way I would characterize those is it's honestly, well, better lessons. I think I learned was living how to understand. Talk with CFO, and I really think we're just two things. There's technical debt that we're all working on. Everybody has. And then there's future proofing the company. And so we have a set of efforts that go onto like Red Team. Another actually think like bad people break them before they break you, you know, break it yourself and then go work on it. And so we're always balancing how much we're spending on the technical, that cleanup, you know, modernizing systems and things that are more capable. And then also the future proofing. If you're seeing things coming around the corner like cryptography and and other other element >> by chain blockchain, my supply chain is another good, great mechanism. So you constantly testing and R and D also practical mechanisms. >> And there in the red team's, which are the teams that attacking pen everything, which is again, break yourself first on this super super helpful for us >> well bred. You've seen a lot of ways of innovation have been involved in multiple ways computer industry client server all through the through the days, so feel. No, I feel good about this you know, because it reminds me and put me for broken the business together. But this is the interesting point I want to get to is there's a lot of younger Si SOS coming in, and a lot of young talent is being attractive. Security has kind of a game revived to it. You know, most people, my friends, at a security expert, they're all gamers. They love game, and now the thrill of it. It's exciting, but it's also challenging. Young people coming might not have experience. You have lessons you've learned. Share some thoughts over the years that scar either scar tissue or best practices share some advice. Some of the younger folks coming in breaking into the business of, you know, current situation. What you learned over the years it's Apple Apple. But now the industry. >> Yeah, sadly, I'd probably say it's no different than a lot of the general advice I would have in the space, which is there's you value experience. But it turns out I value enthusiasm and passion more here so you can teach about anybody whose passion enthusiastic and smart anything they want. So we get great data people and make them great security people, and we have people of a passion like you know, this person. It's his mission is to limit all passwords everywhere and like that passion. Take your passion and driver wherever you need to go do. And I >> think the nice >> thing about security is it is something that is technically complex. Human sociology complex, right? Like you said, changing culture. And it affects everything we do, whether it's enterprise, small, medium business, large international, it's actually a pretty It's a fasten, if you like hard problem. If you're a puzzle person, it's a great It's a great profession >> to me. I like how you said Puzzle. That's I think that's exactly it. They also bring up a good point. I want to get your thoughts on quickly. Is the talent gap is is really not about getting just computer science majors? It's bigger than that. In fact, I've heard many experts say, and you don't have to be a computer scientist. You could be a lot of cross disciplines. So is there a formula or industry or profession, a college degree? Or is it doesn't matter. It's just smart person >> again. It depends if your job's a hundred percent. Security is one thing, but like what we're trying to do is make not we don't have security for developers you want have developed to understand oppa security and what they build is an example on DSO. Same with administrators and other components. I do think again I would say the passion thing is a key piece for us, but But there's all aspects of the profession, like the risk managers air, you know, on the actuarial side. Then there's math people I had one of my favorite people was working on his phD and maladaptive behavior, and he was super valuable for helping us understand what actually makes things stick when you're trying to train their educate people. And what doesn't make that stick anthropologist or super helpful in this field like anthropologist, Really? Yeah, anthropologist are great in this field. So yeah, >> and sociology, too, you mentioned. That would think that's a big fact because you've got human aspect interests, human piece of it. You have society impact, so that's really not really one thing. It's really cross section, depending upon where you want to sit in the spectrum of opportunity, >> knowing it gives us a chance to really hire like we hire a big thing for us has been hard earlier in career and building time because it's just not all available. But then also you, well, you know, hire from military from law enforcement from people returning back. It's been actually, it's been a really fascinating thing from a management perspective that I didn't expect when I did. The role on has been fantastic. >> The mission. Personal question. Final question. What's getting you excited these days? I mean, honestly, you had a very challenging job and you have got attend all the big board meetings, but the risk management compliance. There's a lot of stuff going on, but it's a lot >> of >> technology fund in here to a lot of hard problems to solve. What's getting you excited? What what trends or things in the industry gets you excited? >> Well, I'm hopeful we're making progress on the bad guys, which I think is exciting. But honestly, this idea the you know, a long history of studying safety when I did this and I would love to see security become the air bags of the technology industry, right? It's just always there on new president. But you don't even know it's there until you need it. And I think that getting to that vision would be awesome. >> And then really kind of helping move the trust equation to a whole other level reputation. New data sets so data, bits of data business. >> It's total data business >> breath. Thanks for coming on the Q. Appreciate your insights, but also no see. So the chief information security officer at Microsoft, also corporate vice president here inside the Cuban Palo Alto. This is cute conversations. I'm John Career. Thanks for watching. >> Thank you.

>> System partners. Lie from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cue covering Sisqo Live Europe, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome Back to the Cubes Live coverage Day two of three days of wall to wall coverage here in Europe in Barcelona, Spain. Francisco Live twenty nineteen I'm John Career with Dave. A long takes too many man hosting great loaded interviews this week here. Francisco live guys kicking off day to day one was all the big announcement Cisco putting in all the announcement's really is setting in and the messaging coming together, the product portfolios filling out. Clearly, Cisco is adopting and path to the cloud, taking their data center business, securing that bring that data center into the cloud kind of hybrid multi cloud, big messes around multi cloud and then under the hood data center traffic patterns, air changing. Its not a ribbon replaces extension to the environment. Cisco's intent based networking plus Cloud plus Cloud center management. A lot of stuff we discussed that yesterday, but I want your take. Is Cisco's positioning viable? And what does it mean, Visa VI? The competition, because Cisco is a blue chip tech player, certainly have zillions of customers very relevant. This is a huge impact. How their position themselves do. >> Yeah, so So John Roemer a few years ago we were saying, Hyper clouds going Teo hybrid. The hyper scale clouds, the public loud provide you going to take over the world and boy Cisco's in trouble because if a third or half of the market all of a sudden evaporate from them, those enterprise buyers of switches and routers and everything else like that, Cisco is doomed. Well, you know, we listen to the keynote yesterday and Cisco's talking about all of their solutions anywhere. And when you go through the ecosystem of Public Cloud hybrid Cloud multi Cloud, say this Cisco have a play there, and the answer is absolutely, you know, it's not just the you know, after empty acquisition, which has software in a ws. But, you know, S t win is going to be a critical component to get from my data centers to the public clouds on DH. Cisco has software and solutions and consulting TTO help customers in all of these environment. So we always know that there's partnerships and there's competition. There's a lot of players out there, but you know, it was good to see them. You know, talking. You know a lot about what they're doing with Cooper Netease with Amazon because you can't talk about cloud either public cloud or multi cloud without first talking about Amazon. Last year we were a little critical John and said, OK, Google's great, but Google's number three or four. So you've got to be there was Amazon got to be there with Microsoft and certified that we've already interviewed a couple of service writers always been a strength for Sisko to be in there on. So, you know, good positioning. Well, you know, we talked yesterday a bunch about the bridge to possible on where to go. But the more I think about that anywhere is what Cisco's branded everything. And that's when when you talk multicolored multi clouds, really a whole bunch of clouds and a whole bunch of things. And therefore I need a player that's going to help give me coverage in all of these environment and Cisco's making a strong case to be >> there. And Dave. So I mean Stew's, right? A couple years ago, we were critical of Cisco and I think rightfully so. I think the whole industry looked at them as not in the middle of the fairway and certainly the recovery shot. Francisco is really strong because a lot changed. Go back a few years. They didn't have a good ecosystem for developers. They didn't have a good open source position. They kind of work, you know. Do I go up to stack or not? But they had the court networking, so there's a lot of people are saying, Hey, if Cisco doesn't make a move, they're doomed. We were one of them, so lots changed. You seeing the adoption of micro services containers, AP eyes the growth of definite That Suzy we has initiated is clear proof in my opinion. Then you've got the data center guys saying, Hey, what could take networking and and take this and enable clouds. So Cisco, making good moves, put themselves in pole position for growth? >> Well, I think the first point is if you roll back ten years ago, we've not Francisco. We were critical. What? All of it. It was clear to us that cloud was going to be where all the growth wass and if you didn't have a public cloud, you are going to be in trouble unless you developed a cloud strategy. So certainly Cisco de Liam see now you know William c. V. M. Where none of them really owned a public cloud strategy. And five years ago, they had to figure it out. Well, they've figured out that actually, managing multi clouds is a great opportunity. And so Francisco's got a viable strategy. Networks between clouds are going to flatten their going to need management specifically as it relates to Cisco and maybe their competition. They have TTo position themselves as R multi cloud management system is higher performance and more secure than the competition. That's what they have to sell their customers on. And the second piece of that is they got a transition from selling ports to selling software on there, making that transition. So I like their strategy, By the way, I also like VM wear strategy. They capitulated to a ws and now they're tight with a w s. IBM went out, paid two million dollars for soft layer, so they've got a cloud strategy. Oracles got a cloud strategy. Microsoft got a great cloud stress. So if you go through and >> tickle at the hole and they have clouds, so let's let's just understand something. There's clouds and then clouds strategies. Right? So thirty >> four billion dollars that IBM paying for Red Hat is giving them a multi cloud strategy. More than just saying, we have a bunch of data centers in their medals. But it >> was both, maybe not so much in the public cloud, right? I would say I would argue that their public cloud has failed to meet their expectations. That's funnel cloud IBM. And that's why they had to pay thirty four billion dollars for for Red Hat, I would say just the opposite about Microsoft. Their public cloud strategy has been an enormous success, and they're very well positioned for multi cloud. >> Okay, so let's just put on the table. So Cisco looks at the public cloud as partners, not competitors. So Amazon Azure Google aren't competing with Cisco. There are there ways or they're partnering. We'll we'll come understand. Competition is all about understanding, Absolutely as a cloud. So I would say Cisco's strategy to partner just like he did, just like everyone else. And l did. That's the competitive, not cloud So. Or maybe this is the question. Are the public clouds competitive to Sisko >> that their frenemies John? Uh, >> you know, the answer's. Yes, there's no question about this. They're growing at twenty, thirty, forty percent a year. Francisco and IBM, HP. They're growing it, you know, much lower. So single digits. If that's >> so such on, we know if Amazon if there is a profitable space that they can offer competitive service, they will. You know, security. You said Cisco's got a great position Security, both what they've had for a long time, and they've done acquisitions like duo. More recently on DH, you know, we've seen lots of pieces of the public cloud ecosystem that Cisco's bought over the last few years. Clicker was one on one we spent some time talking about, but absolutely, you know, Amazon goes after some of those pieces, so they're gonna partner Cisco's Got it. Last I checked it at least three dozen products in the eight of us marketplace. But you know it is. They can live there, but there will be competition. So >> this girl's got some huge assets in this game. They've got eight hundred thousand plus customers. They, you know, sixty percent of the networking market, so they own the install base. It's really the only market that you can think of that's a major market where they're the dominant player still owns, you know, sixty percent of market never just go for >> networking, and VM wear for the hyper visor are very similar. In that case, Dave and both have now have a similar strategy as to how they're going. >> That's the most interesting competitive dynamic, in my view, is V M wearing this acquisition of Nice era and obviously, Cisco. Cisco is not going to take this lying down. They've got a C. I A and no, they claim number one. They didn't say whose data that was I was looking squinting for is that I D C. Guard divorce her. But, >> well, let's talk about growth because you know how I always complain about market. Researchers aren't on the mark in terms of the reality of where the market is, So you mentioned growth. So are we. If we're early on cloud growth and that's where the growth is, what is the cloud adoption going to look like over the next ten to twenty years? Is it going to look more like public Cloud or is going to look more like on premises evolving to cloud operations And if the growth of cloud operations is all things wide area Network mentioned the wind, then there's more growth coming. So that's the case. Is Sisko going to be able to capture that growth for the future? >> Well, I mean, in terms of growth, I think eight of us is on its way to being a one hundred billion dollars revenue company, and that's pretty impressive given where they are today. I mean, they're gonna triple in revenue, so that's that's where the growth is. So now Cisco's already participating in a huge TAM. What they've got to do is hold on to that business and identify new opportunities where they could manage multi cloud instances and compete effectively with V M. Where who's coming at it from the hyper visor? And now, they said yesterday, trying to do to networks in storage what it did for systems and then IBM Red hat coming out. It really, from the applications perspective and with the services view Microsoft with a foot in both camps, You got Oracle in its little niche. Just really interest. >> We got an install a base that's moving to the cloud. You got net new company they're going to be started might have on premise. Orgel Full Cloud. This is the question that everyone's going to ask. I think Cisco can take their existing base with moving packets from Point A to Point B and storing and making datum or intelligence moving Date around is a big networking phenomenon. >> Here's the question. Here's a question, Andy Jassy would say. We believe they're going to be far fewer data centers in the future that most data is going to live in the public lounge. The likes of Michael Dell, Yeah, Charles Robbins, et cetera. I think they see the world is a hybrid world, right? That there's going to be Mohr data that's in a hybrid on Prem Plus Cloud, then is going to be in the >> public. You know, I love Andy Jazzy, but I'll just say first of all I understand is bias in his perspective. And I think he's right at one level. Why wouldn't Amazon see people moving data centers to the flower? I get that I say that it's going to be in the networks. That's where the action will be. Where are the networks of the networks? In the cloud of the networks on premise. Are the networks on a phone? I OT So if coyote and edge coming together, it's all one network. Yeah, you're gonna have The value is going to be in the network. Not necessarily. The clouds we say or is shared values. >> Yeah. I mean, you talk about EJ computing and Io ti. Cisco's got muraki, which is growing strong. SD LAN is a critical component for this multi cloud piece. There really posed toe, you know, drive this next generation of five G not something we've dug into a lot yet, but, you know, it is finally coming, you know, really soon here. And Cisco has a lot of those pieces to be able to hit the next. >> It always went back to the data, in my opinion, and the leverage points for data are Saso. Yeah, if your own the applications business, you're doing well there, You're in a good position. All the data's running over Cisco Networks, so that puts them in A in a really good position. And and as we know the likes of a Ws and Microsoft Alibaba senator, they're trying to get as much data into their clouds as possible. >> And what I loved yesterday in the keynote is data was actually one of the central components that they talked about, which the Cisco I know of ten or twenty years ago. I was just bitch that ran over our pipes. So they understand the value of data. And they're driving to that mark. >> Well, we've been saying on the Cube now for nine years days at the center of the value proposition Data at the Centre Data Center. Value proposition. This is actually happening. It's really going way. See? A lot of growth and cloud, Dave. Good commentaries do. Well done. We have Sergeant Gupta, one of the bank. All the leaders coming on the Cube here. Francisco breakdown. I'm gonna ask him the tough questions. Stay with us for day two. Coverage here in the Cube live in Barcelona for a stupid him in David want breaking down all the action. We'll be right back with more after this short break