(upbeat music) >> Hey everyone. Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Women in Data Science, 2022. I'm Lisa Martin, excited to be coming to you live from Stanford University at the Ariaga alumni center. I'm pleased to welcome fresh keynote stage Alex Hanna the director of research at the dare Institute. Alex, it's great to have you on the program. >> Yeah, lovely to be here. >> Talk to me a little bit about yourself. I know your background is in sociology. We were talking before we went live about your hobbies and roller derby, which I love. >> Yes. >> But talk to me a little bit about your background and what the DAIR Institute this is, distributed AI research Institute, what it actually is doing. >> Sure, absolutely. So happy to be here talking to the women in data science community. So my background's in sociology, but also in computer science and machine learning. So my dissertation work was actually focusing on developing some machine learning and natural language processing tools for analyzing protest event data and generating that and applying it to pertinent questions within social movement scholarship. After that, I was a faculty at University of Toronto and then research scientist at Google on the ethical AI team where I met Dr. Timnit Gebru who is the founder of DAIR. And so, DAIR is a nonprofit research Institute oriented on around independent community based AI work, focused really on, the kind of, lots of discussions around AI are done by big companies or companies focus on solutions that are very much oriented around collecting as much data as they can. Not really knowing if it's going to be for community benefit. At DAIR, we want to flip that, we want to really want to prioritize what that would mean if communities had input into data driven technologies what it would mean for those communities and how we can help there. >> Double click and just some of your research, where do your passions lie? >> So I'm a sociologist and a lot of that being, I think one of the big insights of sociology is to really highlight at how society can be more just, how we can interrogate inequality and understanding how to make those distances between people who are underserved and over served who already have quite a lot, how we can reduce the disparities. So finding out where that lies, especially in technology that's really what I'm passionate about. So it's not just technology, which I think can be helpful but it's really understanding what it means to reduce those gaps and make the world more just. >> And that's so important. I mean, as more and more data is generated, exponentially growing, so are some of the biases and the challenges that that causes. You just gave your tech vision talk which I had a chance to see most of it. And you were talking about something that's very interesting. That is the biases in facial recognition software. Maybe on a little bit about what you talked about and why that is such a challenge. And also what are some of the steps being made in the right direction where that's concerned? >> Yeah. So there's the work I was talking about in the talk was highlighting, not work I've done, but the work by doctors (indistinct) and (indistinct) focusing on the distance that exists and the biases that exist in facial recognition as a technical system. The fact remains also that facial recognition is used and is disproportionately deployed on marginalized population. So in the U.S, that means black and brown communities. That's where facial recognition is used disproportionately. And we also see this in refugee context where refugees will be leaving the country. And those facial recognition software will be used in those contexts and surveilling them. So these are people already in a really precarious place. And so, some of the movements there have been to debias some of the facial recognition tools. I actually don't think that's far enough. I'm fundamentally against facial recognition. I think that it shouldn't be used as a technology because it is used so pervasively in surveillance and policing. And if we're going to approach that we really need to think, rethink our models of security models of immigration and whatnot. >> Right, it's such an important topic to discuss because I think it needs more awareness about some of the the biases, but also some to your point about some of those vulnerable communities that are really potentially being harmed by technologies like that. We have to be, there's a fine line. Or maybe it's not so fine. >> I don't think it's that fine. So like, I think it's used, in an incredibly harsh way. And for instance there's research that's being done in which, so I'm a transgender woman and there's a research being done by researchers who collected data sets that people had on YouTube documenting their transitions. And already there was a researcher collecting those data and saying, well, we could have terrorists or something take hormones and cross borders. And you talk to any trans person, you're like, well, that's not how it works, first off. Second off, it's already viewing trans people and a trans body as kind of a mode of deception. And so that's, whereas researchers in this space were collecting those data and saying that well, we should collect these data to help make these facial recognitions more fair. But that's not fair if it's going to be used on a population that's already intensely surveilled and held in suspicion. >> Right. That's, the question of fairness is huge, absolutely. Were you always interested in tech, you talked about your background in sociology. Was it something that you always, were you a stem kid from the time you were little? Talk to me about your background and how you got to where you are now? >> Yeah. I've been using computers since I was four. I've been using, I was taking a part, my parents' gateway computer. yeah, when I was 10. Going to computer shows, slapping hard drives into things, seeing how much we could upgrade computer on our own and ruining more than in one computer, to my parents chagrin but I've always been that. I went to undergrad in triple major to computer science, math and sociology, and originally just in computer science and then added the other two where I got interested in things and understanding that, was really interested in this section of tech and society. And I think the more and more I sat within the field and went and did my graduate work in sociology and other social sciences really found that there was a place to interrogate those, that intersection of the two. >> Exactly. What are some of the things that excite you now about where technology is going? What are some of the positives that you see? >> I talk so much about the negatives. It's really hard to, I mean, there's I think, some of the things that I think that are positive are really the community driven initiatives that are saying, well, what can we do to remake this in such a way that is going to more be more positive for our community? And so seeing projects like, that try to do community control over certain kinds of AI models or really try to tie together different kinds of fields. I mean, that's exciting. And I think right now we're seeing a lot of people that are super politically and justice literate and they how to work and they know what's behind all these data driven technologies and they can really try to flip the script and try to understand what would it mean to kind of turn this into something that empowers us instead of being something that is really becoming centralized in a few companies >> Right. We need to be empowered with that for sure. How did you get involved with WIS? >> So Margo, one of the co-directors, we sit on a board together, the human rights data analysis group and I've been a huge fan of HR dag for a really long time because HR dag is probably one of the first projects I've seen that's really focused on using data for accountability for justice. Their methodology has been, called on to hold perpetrators of genocide to accounts to hold state violence, perpetrators to account. And I always thought that was really admirable. And so being on their board is sort of, kind of a dream. Not that they're actually coming to me for advice. So I met Margo and she said, come on down and let's do a thing for WIS and I happily obliged >> Is this your first Wis? >> This is my very first Wis. >> Oh, excellent. >> Yeah. >> What's your interpretation so far? >> I'm having a great time. I'm learning a lot meeting a lot of great people and I think it's great to bring folks from all levels here. Not only, people who are a super senior which they're not going to get the most out of it it's going to be the high school students the undergrads, grad students, folks who, and you're never too old to be mentored, so, fighting your own mentors too. >> You know, it's so great to see the young faces here and the mature faces as well. But one of the things that I was, I caught in the panel this morning was the the talk about mentors versus sponsors. And that's actually, I didn't know the difference until a few years ago in another women in tech event. And I thought it was such great advice for those panelists to be talking to the audience, talking about the importance of mentors, but also the difference between a mentor and sponsor. Who are some of your mentors? >> Yeah, I mean, great question. It's going to sound cheesy, but my boss (indistinct) I mean, she's been a huge mentor for me and with her and another mentor (indistinct) Mitchell, I wouldn't have been a research scientist. I was the first social scientist on the research scientist ladder at Google before I left and if it wasn't for their, they did sponsor but then they all also mentored me greatly. My PhD advisor, (indistinct) huge mentor by, and I mean, lots of primarily and then peer mentors, people that are kind of at the same stage as me academically but also in professionally, but are mentors. So folks like Anna Lauren Hoffman, who's at the UDub, she's a great inspiration in collaborating, co-conspirator, so yeah. >> Co-conspirator, I like that. I'm sure you have quite a few mentees as well. Talk to me a little bit about that and what excites you about being a mentor. >> Yeah. I have a lot of mentees either informally or formally. And I sought that out purposefully. I think one of the speakers this morning on the panel was saying, if you can mentor do it. And that's what I did and sought out that, I mean, it excites me because folks, I don't have all the answers, no one person does. You only get to those places, if you have a large community. And I think being smart is often something that people think comes like, there's kind of like a smart gene or whatever but like there probably is, like I'm not a biologist or a cognitive, anything, but what really takes cultivation is being kind and really advocating for other people and building solidarity. And so that's what mentorship really means to me is building that solidarity and really trying to lift other people up. I mean, I'm only here and where I'm at in my career, because many people were mentors and sponsors to me and that's only right to pay that forward. >> I love that, paying that forward. That's so true. There's nothing like a good community, right? I mean, there's so much opportunity that that ground swell just generates, which is what I love. We are, tomorrow is international women's day. And if we look at the numbers, women are 50% of the workforce, but only less than a quarter in stem positions. What's your advice and recommendation for those young girls who might be intimidated or might be being told even to this day, no, you can't do physics. You can't do computer science. What can you tell them? >> Yeah, I mean, so individual solutions to that are putting a bandaid on a very big wound. And I mean I think, finding other people in a working to change it, I mean, I think building structures of solidarity and care are really the only way we'll get out of that. >> I agree. Well, Alex, it's been great to have you on the program. Thank you for coming and sharing what you're doing at DAIR. The intersection of sociology and technology was fascinating and your roller derby, we'll have to talk well about that. >> For sure. >> Excellent. >> Thanks for joining me. >> Yeah, thank you Lisa. >> For Alex Hanna, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's coverage live, of women in data science worldwide conference, 2022. Stick around, my next guest is coming right up. (upbeat music)

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome to the cube at Lisa Martin with Dave Volante. This is our first day of covering AWS reinvent 2019 Dave, we have a jam packed three days here. The seventh time the cube has been at reinvent the super Superbowl. Here it is. I, I co I stole that from you but you just send it back to me. It is like the super bowl here. We're very pleased to welcome a couple of guests from refitted refinished tips, first time on the cube as well as our guest. Please welcome Hannah. We've got Hannah Helen, Helen's, our VP of cloud propositions and James Turk, the head of architecture and cloud from refinish. Guys, welcome to the cube. You. Thank you for having us. So here we are in the expo hall with thousands and thousands of folks, but I'd love for you guys to start a Hannibal. Start with you. Tell our audience about refinish if you're a data company, but really what is it that you guys do? What do you deliver to the community? Absolutely >>what we are, as I said, we are a data company, so we serve the global financial community. So we're looking at banks, asset managers, hedge funds, corporations with financial and risk data. That's a very powerful combination in these clouds. Environmental or we say without data flower is empty. So that's where we come in. >>And what type of data are we talking about? You know data as from a thematic perspective it is. There's, we know when every company knows on some level there's tremendous value in the data. The challenge is being able to access it and unlock the value. Give us a slice of and capital markets for example. What are some of the types of data services that you provide to your customers? >>So we have all sorts of data. So we obviously source the data from lots of different sources where it's coming from, from exchanges or from the, from the market data sources. And then our customers use that to analyze the data and really running the back testing for, for those data facts. They also commingled our data with alternative data sets as well, as well as they own internal data. So it's all about that, that analytical layer that they can add on top of our day. >>Okay. And estate as a service essentially. Is that right? We do have some data as a service. We also deliver the data to the client. People are interested in accessing data in all sorts of different ways, including increasingly on the cloud. So talk more about your cloud offering, your, your cloud and your title. Cloud architecture. >> So one of the things that we're doing is we have a combination, we're an interesting company in that we both have our own pieces of cloud infrastructure for our own purposes, but also increasingly we need to build and deliver solutions for our customers to be asked to consume data in the cloud. So that means being able to work with them to put it into the cloud that they want it to be going into, to be able to work out how we can keep that data up to date and to do it in a cost effective manner for our clients to be able to get the most out of it. >> How do you deal with the problems >>of data quality? You're getting data from different sources. How do you take care of that? >>So anyways, that's, that's really all our core strength and expertise that we have. We have been doing that for years and years. So again, coming from it from defense sources, we normalize the data on our side, we clean it up. And then so for our customers in a you our own information model, and we have created this app Poona permanent and unique, identify a post per ID. So we map all the datasets so it's very easy for our customers to consume that and then also map it back to they own data and third party data sets. Where does the global security come into play? Because that's a topic and thing that we talk about at every event when you're talking about all these different external data sources, quality. But security is, I imagine fundamental. How do you help deliver that? Absolutely. Obviously from that, from the cloud perspective, that has been a big theme in the, in the public cloud environment and I think we are seeing more and more feedback from our customers that as it comes down to public cloud, I think they are very comfortable actually now with uh, with the privacy and security of, of public cloud. >>So that has been, I think, big change past couple of years. I haven't personally seen those sponsors anymore coming, coming from customers the way that we saw a couple of years ago. >>Oh, one of the interesting things that we're seeing is an increasing move is that our clients want to be able to mix their data with that data. And so increasingly you're seeing interesting solutions coming to market, which allowed them to keep their data where their data is held on their cloud or even on their own premises and mix that with our data. And so we're trying to bring together those solutions where a customer doesn't have to put all of our data with theirs but all of their data with us. But keep that segregation as you say, because that PII data and all of those sorts of things are much more important these days for us to be able to be able to show that is how the data is being segregated and that things are being kept apart in an appropriate way. >>Who's responsible for that? Is that you guys, is it the cloud provider? Is it on customers? So it's a shared responsibility model. Where does, where do you leave off and where does the customer pick up? What do you advise customers in terms of, Hey, here's what we're going to do for you and now you have to be responsible for X. What does that line? >>Well, I quite often defining that service boundary is something that we continue to work on. So historically we've delivered data to clients and so we've had lines going into a client. It's a, um, premises. And then there's an obvious point at the end of that where this was us and that's you. As we get more into the cloud space, we have to define much more clearly what that service boundary is. So again, as we're developing out some of our cloud propositions, that's a key thing that we're working through as to what is it that the client wants to control and what is it that we need to control. >>It's very true, Hannah, I mean 10 years ago you talk to financial services companies and he said, we will never be in the cloud and now they're much more comfortable. Now you guys do this cloud survey each year. W w what are you seeing? I'll share some of our data. I wonder if it matches what, what do you, what are the big trends? >>Sure. Yeah. So we are doing this, it's almost becoming tradition for us to do this quota. They are on a yearly basis. So it's quite interesting to kind of compare the previous service and where we are today. So what we have found out on the survey this year is that the IOT, uh, investment is very much going to public cloud. So I think when we started the cloud survey a couple of years ago, we saw that about 32% of the ID investment went to public cloud. But then for next year that is increasing almost to two 50% so obviously public cloud is definitely here to stay. I think another, another key trend that we saw from the surveys that I think the testing that the companies have been doing, like they are learning more and more and they are really seeing the benefit from Papa now and I will highlight that especially our hedge fund customers, they were highlighting a face or so of course benefits with that, with the cloud. >>So about 92% so that actually when they moved to the cloud and do the project in the cloud environment, it really saves money for them, which is quite interesting. Payers also then at the same time to work many of the customer discussions. Like it can be also a challenge for, especially for large organizations as they move to the cloud environment, that how do you kind of manage that a traditional technology stack and when you move to the public cloud. So it's kind of two sided way there, but I think the general consensus as it comes down to out survey was that many of the organizations, they really saw that big transition that organizations are going for one that it can be very, very big impact for they own own business. So very, very positive message on that part. >>Let's dig into that a little bit more from a transition or we'll use Andy, Jesse's or a transformation. James, I'd love to get your perspective on what has changed in the last few years to see the numbers that Helen talked about. Um, really Hannah, excuse me, going up so significantly as we know that, you know, cloud one compute and storage and um, networking and maybe some data services. But what do you think has fundamentally changed across industries such that public cloud now is much more strategic? >>I think for a lot of firms and particularly in financial services, we spend a lot of time looking at analytics and being able to run those large analytical jobs and be able to scale them. I think that as people have become more comfortable about the data that they can put into the cloud and being able to get access to more data through companies like definitive, being able to run those machine learning jobs. And it was really interesting to see the keynote this morning to see Amazon really putting a lot of effort into democratizing the use of machine learning through Sage maker thought it was very exciting. Um, we think that that is going to be an increasing thing. So as you see in financial services, people are looking for those large workloads. They have really large data sets and so the only way that they can do that and it kind of realistic manner is being able to use public cloud. And then you see them taking a lot of the old traditional systems. And as we're seeing the risk appetite to be able to get onto cloud becoming more, they're going through the same of transformation, which we see many firms having gone through. You know, the developers are insisting that they're getting the best tools so that it can be, have the agility to deliver what their clients want. And again, one of the best ways of doing that is moving onto a public cloud infrastructure that really delivers those tools to >>what are, if you could talk about what you're seeing in terms of adoption of new tech. So I said we share some of our data at the macro, you know, spending slowing down, it's, it's reverting to pre 2018 levels. It's not falling off a cliff, but, but when you look at the spending data from ETR and others, it's slowing down. Financial services is a bellwether. You're seeing less experimentation and sort of more narrowing of their bets to the placing bets on things that they know are going to work. They've been experimenting with digital transformation for the last couple of years and now they're saying, Hey, we're now going to double down on the things that work. We're going to unplug the things, the legacy stuff so we can get rid of some of our technical debt. What are you seeing in terms of the trends of technology adoption for particularly for emerging tech within Fs? >>Yeah, and I think you've touched on this briefly, but I think what we are seeing is that the, when the, when we started co did the discussions with our customers, they all started with the kind of the backend technology I take on rotation at that time. But I in that trend as you say as well, so it's moving very much to the end users and end users. For example, data scientists speaking the analytical tools if they want to go into them. And I think that's a, that's a very big trend that we are seeing. So again, AI, ML analytics in general that you can add on top of the cloud environment and on top of the data, that will be the big thing happening. >>One of the things that Andy Jassy said this morning, James is in sort of these four kind of essentials for transformation to happen and he said the first one is you've got to get senior executive alignment and the second thing he said is has to be this, and I use the word aggressive, aggressive, top down approach. What are some of the changes that you're seeing with respect to, you know, where it comes to maybe what, what, what you said, Hannah, about the emerging technologies and the end users really in the data scientists needing to be able to get their hands wet with all this, but what are you seeing in terms of organizations that you work with? Where is that senior leadership really getting onboard where public cloud is a strategy that is driven top-down? >>Absolutely. I mean increasingly you're seeing that happen is that it really is going to be the top down strategy. There are a number of very large capital markets firms who have come out and said that they're going to adopt varying cloud providers. And increasingly that's because the level of trust has gone up and the level of maturity of the cloud providers. There's also increased. So a few years ago you would speak to the cloud providers and they really wouldn't understand the need to engage with the regulators. Now companies have large teams of people who go out and engage with the regulators and they will partner with the financial institutions to make sure that we're getting the right sort of level of engagement and the right level of permission to do these things. So that means that the senior management are there. And I think that also the senior management, you know, finally are starting to see some of the benefits flow through in terms of a combination of the agility, the different sort of cost controls and the elasticity. >>And if you think about some of the nature of the workloads that financial institution run, you've got a lot of this overnight processing, which still goes on for creating risk reports and all those sorts of things really well suited for elasticity. And in the last few years you've seen trust this massive increase in the regulatory requirement for those things. And certainly the institutions that I've worked with, you end up in a situation where you're saying, well, in order to be able to accommodate just working out what I need to do there, I'd need to build three different data centers clean. Nobody is doing that anymore. You're going to go out, you're going to partner with your cloud provider and they're going to provide you with that capability. That may not be something that you need in the longterm, but it'll be something that will help you work out what it is that you do need. And then you can turn that into a normal world. >>So AWS, AWS obviously is a cloud provider for you. There may be others as well, but you saw some of the announcements today. You mentioned some of the machine learning and AI stuff, Sage maker, you also saw a lot of activity around the data store, you know red shift and separating computer storage. Is that something that you care about is that your customers have to worry about that? Sometimes they ask you for the solution. >>We super care about this. In fact, one of the big things that we're looking at at the moment, and I was really interested in the announcements today, but exactly that is how do we get our data into people's data lakes? As I said, how do we do that in a way where we're making sure that the commitments that we have on digital rights management are being honored and how do we work with cloud providers like Amazon about how we do that. So we have very strong relationships with Amazon. We have very strong relationships with other providers as well. And so we are trying hard to work out what the best solution is because to be honest with you, we have to deliver where our clients want the data to be. So we're working with lots of different providers on this, but these are all really interesting times and this focus on the data and how you get the data into people's data lakes is really interesting to us and something where we're pushing very hard. >>Yeah. And then, and then how you act on it. It's a whole new layer of compute being driven and new workloads that are emerging as a result of that data. It's not just throw it in the data Lake anymore. It's I have to extract insights. Absolutely. Yeah. >>Talk to us about how on that front, how are you helping him? We'll start with you. How are you helping customers, maybe a large enterprise legacy organization actually start to use data for competitive advantage in business differentiation, especially where the enterprise is concerned, where they most likely have competitors that are born in the cloud, that have the agility and the speed and the appetite to take risks. How are you helping customers unlock this data and go, wow, this is a huge advantage in our business. Absolutely. So obviously as, as I said earlier though, because we are a data company, so our customers know know us from that perspective. So they come to us for, for both financial and risk data. That's kind of one >>go to place to get everything. And then we are obviously working very closely with our customers to also offer them new additional datasets. So things like alternative data obviously being one that you again want to go mingle your own data with a third party data with alternative data sets as well. So we, for example, formed a partnership with a company called Patal Finn earlier this year, which has this very nice technology to onboard different alternative data sets. And then we are onboarding those data sets for our customers. Again, combining that with our overall information model. But it's really, again, coming back to that flexible a question that we want to make sure that all our days are, can be served in the environment where our customers are. So whether they are in public cloud, private cloud, where they have their own prem solution, stale, obviously with, especially with a larger institution, they still have those, uh, as well as we, we hosting the offering for them as well as, or it's all about the flexibility that we will be offering. Excellent. >>Well, Hannah, James, thank you for joining David Mead, sharing with our audience who were fitted. It is what you do and really kind of this importance of data as we're in this new NextGen of cloud. We appreciate your time. Thank you so much for day. Volante I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the queue from day one of our coverage of AWS reinvent 19. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: From Austin, Texas it's theCube, covering Pure Storage Accelerate 2019. Brought to you by Pure Storage. >> Howdy from Austin, Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante we are on day one of our coverage of Pure Accelerate 2019. Welcoming a couple of guests to theCube. One is an alumni, Nathan Hall, VP of America's Systems Engineering from Pure, Nathan welcome back to theCube. >> Thanks, thanks very much. >> Lisa: And you brought a buddy from Cisco. We have Tom Sutliff, director of systems engineering and the America's data center, welcome to the Cube Tom. >> Thanks for having me. >> Dave: It's howdy you all. >> Howdy you all, okay. Thank you, it took the wicked smart guy from Boston to figure that out. >> A local. >> All right, so you all, let's talk about Cisco and Pure, you guys have been partners now since, Nathan we were chatting, since about the IPO, about four years ago. Let's start with you Nathan, our Pure guy. The Cisco, Pure partnership evolution, better together? What have you done over those last five years that sets you up for another first that you're going to share with us today? >> Sure, so it's a deep relationship that's only getting deeper and it's really at all levels. It starts with the executive alignment and think about Charlie Giancarlo from Cisco we've got a lot of just common, cross pollination there. But now it extends, certainly the field level, Tom and I are doing a lot of planning together in terms of having our teams go after common use cases. But now it extends to engineering as well, we had a UCS director plugin that we've had for some time now but Pure is now first in terms of having integration into Cisco intersight, so we are first and only to have storage integration of the Cisco intersight so that Cisco and Pure customers can really manage their environment from one console, so a lot of simplicity, just single SaaS interface for managing everything. >> Tom why Pure, why first with them? >> Well you know Nathan he articulated it well, we can look at the executive level, we talked about Charlie, but even, you know all of our Cisco executives but also to the engineering. We started really strong with the field sales teams but even if you look at the little things that our customers notice but a lot of people may not like the internal development of validated design guides, use cases. We churn them out with Pure as our top ecosystem partner, more than anybody and there's a lot of work being done, our customers see that and it's really helped drive our goal to market together it's really a very strong strategy. >> So there's a CVD around this is that right? >> Yeah there's many there's 22 right now and we're churning them out about one or two a quarter. With some vendors we might put out some initially we might do one or two things well, we do a lot of things well I guess you could say we do 22 things well with the CVD's but more than that. >> So this really started in the field if I understand correctly is that right? [Nathan] - Yes. >> So I always look for these deals and say is it a Barney deal, you know Barney deal I love you, you love me. And if there's real engineering going on then you say okay it's beyond a Barney deal. So it starts in the field with what, hey we should you know a customer wants us to work together and then how does the partnership evolve into where you're putting engineering resources and what does that look like? >> I think a lot of it evolves from just showing progress and showing success. If you look at, we just have a lot of common goals and from a portfolio perspective we fill in a lot of each others gaps so that's really where it started was having the success in the field and that drove, we should actually make greater investments in terms of engineering development, those 22 CVD's, the intersight integration, et cetera. >> So we were talking earlier about CI, HCI for audience members who it's kind of nuanced, how do you guys look at the intersection of those two? >> I say it's another better together story, for example we have a recent joint customer win where essentially across their entire SAP landscape we have Cisco hyper flex the HX managing the database portion, we have FlashStack with Pure Storage managing the Hanna portion, and really it all comes down to single console which is intersight. So we're really able to provide the best type of infrastructure for the right workload at the right time but all make it look like one single experience to the customer. >> So from a customer conversation perspective let's go back to you know we've talked about now this exciting new first engineering alignment. Going back to the field where customers have a multitude of workloads, SAP, Oracle, Microsoft, FEEdi, and there's FlashStack like 31 flavors of FlashStack right. What's that conversation like in terms of CI versus HCI when you guys come into play? Obviously FlashStack being I mentioned a number of flavors of that have been around for awhile, how do you help the customers determine what infrastructure is optimal for their workloads and their business objectives? >> You know there's a clear delineation between a hyper convergence, our HX platform, a hyper flex platform, and the converged infrastructure that we have with FlashStacks. If you look at a FlashStack it's an all in one solution, compute, fabric, storage. It's more for tier one apps, something that's you know scalable, something that's a highly dense tier one application. Latency obviously plays into this you know, I'd say it's a little less with the hyper flex platform and hyper convergence, much easier to stand up, much quicker to stand up within a half an hour. It's a storage play it does many of the similar same things but you know we're kind of closing the gap on both of them because even what you would call that smaller platform that started off at more tier one, excuse me tier two and tier three is now moving into the tier one space so. But it's really about scalability, ease of use, some of them are stronger in some markets like maybe a higher enterprise. But we can sell them across anywhere whether it be public sector, commercial, mid market, smaller customers. But they each have use cases that they fit in very well. >> This morning in the key notes we heard a lot about API's, I want to get into Multi Cloud in a second but before I do we talk a lot about infrastructures code, DevOps, we heard a lot about Kubernetes, a little bit about Kubernetes this morning. And the Cisco DevNet I've often said on theCUBE that they're the only large established company that's figured out how to do something for developers. Now does your partnership extend into sort of infrastructures code, how does that all sort of go through? Is DevNet a play here or even on the roadmap? >> Nathan: So from DevNet can you take that one? >> Well I can say yes it is a play, if you take a look at all of our solutions, primarily the compute and the fabric solutions, programmability is really a key function that we have and the customers can go in and they can actually working with our API's, API's that we work with separate with other vendors too that are dedicated to other vendors. It is a key thing and DevNet became to the forefront probably about five years ago and it was really built off of that development effort so that's critical for us going forward here there's a lot that we're doing I know we're going to talk about intersight and some other things where that was a key element of it. >> Yeah so this is important. You were at Cisco Live. >> And Cisco DevNet. >> And we were in the DevNet zone and you remember, you had many many booths, very specialized, then you have CCIE's learning python, learning how to program infrastructure for new use cases, edge comes in. Anything you'd add Nathan to sort of programmability? >> So I think just from day one from Pure Storage just having our restful API interface, having code.purestorage.com we've tried to make it as much automatable as possible, as easy for to really create a community of developers that can create these integrations very quickly, and honestly evidence of that is in intersight itself. How quickly we got that integration happening is because of that restful API interface. We were able to take the kind of AI Ops of Pure One and bring it into intersight, be able to get intersight to talk to Pure Storage very easily because of that strength of API first. >> What do we need to know about intersight? Add some color there, what is it, how's it work, what's the kind of history and how do you guys turn what you're doing in integration into customer value? >> So if I look at, going back to your comments around why converge versus hyper converge, it's often really a story of simplicity right? Customers want something simple for the data center, they know they can get it out in the Cloud but they can't always run their workloads out in the external Cloud. So simplicity is for intersight, no matter what it is, if it's converged or hyper converged, if it's Pure Storage, being able to have single interface to monitor your infrastructure, lifecycle it, to get really specific imagine a VMware administrator is able to in that single console, provision storage from Pure to a UCS server, format it for VMware ESX and VMFS, and in that single console so doesn't have to go to a bunch of different consoles, gets that Cloud like experience and that's what intersight delivers. So you get that simplicity whether its converged or hyper converged with intersight. >> Whether it's in the Cloud, it's the Edge, it's the Branch, Hybrid Cloud, instead of having to manage it I think that Nathan just hit on these single clusters of storage, compute, what have you. These can all be managed from one single console world wide no matter where they sit. >> So I want to talk about Multi Cloud if we can. So if I look at the players in Multi Cloud, the big whales, VMware, Red Hat, Google, Microsoft, and Cisco, you partner with all of those pretty much I think. AWS is not on the list but you figure they're kind of the facto part of the Multi Cloud scene but they're not going after Multi Cloud, Cisco was a relatively new entrant there. You got companies that have a Cloud like Microsoft and Google that want to participate, you've got companies that don't have a Cloud like Cisco that want to participate, where does Pure fit in to that Multi Cloud opportunity and how does it relate to the partnership? >> Well I think where we found a solid partnership with Cisco and Multi Cloud is the same approach to Multi Cloud and that is I'd call it open Multi Cloud. As opposed to having, forcing a single type of hyper visor on one side or a single Cloud, external Cloud on the other side, how do we make certain that our customers can run any app, anywhere? How do we appear and provide the data fabric having the most efficient amenity of fabric out there to kind of get around the data gravity problems of moving workloads, and we do that now with Pure Flash right on premises, Cloud block store out in the Cloud, our ability to Cloud snap to Azure, to AWS, and that's part of the story. The other part of the story is the fabric and the compute. So with ACI anywhere really that compeletes the any workload anywhere story, and keeping it open so it's not just one hyper visor or one Cloud provider on the other side. >> So you be the data plane in that equation, with the management of that data plane, and Cisco is the overall management framework the control plane I guess we could call that. Is that the right way to think about it? >> I'd say part of the control plane and the network fabric as well, and we're part of essentially the consistent data services no matter where you go. So really upleveling for example EBS to an enterprise grade of storage that it wasn't before, now we have something that whether you're on hardware on premises or in the cloud, you can run that monolithic application in places you couldn't do it before. >> So let's look at this in the real world in a customer environment, talk to me about whatever kind of whether it's a bank or an airline or what have you, what are the business benefits that, we'll use delta Airlines as an example, what would they get out of this if they think of all of the things that they need to achieve internally and be able to deliver to their customers? What's that you know TCO, ROI, what are all those sexy things that you guys are delivering? >> So I'd say they get essentially a lot of the barriers to getting the TCO you want for a given workload are based on compatibility. Maybe you want to run it out in Amazon but you can't get it there because it's this massive monolithic gap, the sync would take days, the SLA out there isn't quite what you want. Now being able to provide a consistent experience no matter where that data plane is, you get that choice. You can go and evaluate AWS or Azure and say that's ultimately the right TCO for my application and I know it could run out there because I've essentially standardized my data fabric anywhere, and it's the same story essentially now with ACI anywhere as well. So the ability to keep essentially the fundamental elements of the application, the infrastructure around it consistent no matter where it is, freeze that IT decision maker to put it in the right place. You don't have to be constrained by compatibility anymore. >> So internal operations can be dialed way up which means those folks are free to resources to work on other higher value projects, and the customer on the other end who doesn't know any of this stuff is under the hood is getting what they need when they want it. >> Exactly, yeah you can manage if you look at ACI you can manage the automation of the applications across the network fabric again wherever it may be, and there's robustness there, there's telemetry, there's measurements. So instead of just looking at the application you look at the robustness of that on the network and the network here us absolutely critical, none of this is going to run I think as Nathan hit on that it could be in the Cloud, it could be in the Branch, you still want the same level of performance the SLA, the five nines and that's where the network comes in that's what's critical. >> Well and the security piece as well. >> Absolutely. >> You guys are largely coming at the Multi Cloud from of course the network strength that you have but you've also got a security angle there because you can go deep packet inspection and that's a sweet spot for you guys. >> Tom: Absolutely. >> Talk about security and it's importance and so on. >> Well I think the security I mean one of the big plays that we have with ACI and with Tetration is being able to look in literally billions of packets a second and being able to track and make realtime decisions on any type of threat, threat defense that's built right in. So normally obviously you have firewall and you try to keep everything out but a lot of what will happen a lot of the penetration security hack happens inside. So this is able to look at all of the flows, at every single packet the flow of the application and the information to see if there's a threat in real time. It takes a lot of processing power a lot of storage and a lot of capacity but you know that's a Tetration product and it's a huge play, our security team is actually out selling that in addition to the data center teams. >> So is Wallingford Yankee's country or Red Sox country? >> Oh it's right on the border so I've got my in laws Yankee's, my parents Redsox, so it's very difficult at home. >> You're a Pat's fan of course, did you feel dirty watching the game on Sunday or? >> Tom: No not at all. >> Oh you felt good? >> Maybe 19 and O this year we'll see. >> And you're Switzerland in this whole debate? >> I try to be it's hard. >> Well you know this company is Warrior's so we can talk NBA too. >> You bet! >> There's a really interesting NBA season coming up now. Not so much for our team but. (laughter) >> Lisa: You never know! >> You never know. >> I had to try to be Switzerland too cause I was the West Coaster with the East Coaster boss, you know how it goes. So Tom last question for you, whole bunch of announcements that came out of Pure today as we look at all of the partnerships that Pure has we talked about that, that Cisco has as well, what are some of the things that as a partner as a valued strategic partner, that Cisco hears when they hear Pure talking about delivering everything as a service and what they're doing with AI and dialing up things there, what is Ciscos reaction to that news? >> Well the thing with Pure and it preceded this conference but you know I really heard it with the new announcements and Nate and I we have a lot of things we're going to work with our systems engineers on in the Americas, it's just the innovation which is pretty incredible. You know you kind of have the big four products here but primarily with the Flash arrays the CI platforms, the Flash blades, what's going on with Pure one, that's going to be critical going forward and we have very similar messages with Multi Cloud. We talked about the validated designs, this is really going to lead us to almost like it's kind of funny when you have an innovative partner you can do reboots every year and people don't think you're just throwing work at them or what have you. It's like now we really innovated again, 12, 15 months later we're going to hit this again and come at it. And so Pure is probably one of the only partners we have that type of relationship with. >> Alright well guys thank you so much for joining Dave and me on theCUBE today we appreciate it. We look forward to following the evolution of this Cisco Pure partnership, thanks for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys. >> For Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE ya'll from Pure Accelerate in Austin, Texas. (upbeat music)

>> From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering SAP Sapphire Now 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend. We are in Orlando in the NetApp booth at SAP Sapphire 2018. We are joined by a new person to theCube, Amit Sinha, the Founder and Chief Customer Officer at WorkSpan. Amit, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me, excited to be here. >> So I'm really excited to understand more about WorkSpan, what you guys do. Tell us a little about that, what opportunity you saw in the market with respect to alliances that you went, "Ah why is it no one's doing that." You have this great idea. >> Yeah, absolutely, we had this ah-ha moment, in this day and age of connectedness around the world, there is not a single company that goes to market alone. Right, when the reality's that we all serve the same demanding end-customers. We got to align our marketing. We got to align our messages, We need to align our innovation. I mean just altogether in order to be more. Easier said then done, right. So that's we saw the opportunity, that what if there was a network of alliances that are connected with one another, and if they can truly define a joint innovation, a joint solution, take it to market, co-market it. When they co-market they can get twice the audience at half the cost, and then co-sell. That way they can improve their vendors, and we are truly seeing that, so that's the opportunity that we saw, to really make the life of the alliance manager, the alliance leader, simpler, and easier to do in this connected day and age. >> Well, essential because also on your website, 60 to 75 percent of announced alliances fail. That's enormous, so talk to us about some of the successes that you have had, talking with companies, as you say, that, you know, nobody goes to market alone these days, did they have those ah-ha moments as well when you came knocking on there and say, hey look what we're developing. >> Absolutely, so look at this large event here. Sapphire is one of the biggest enterprise events out here. Over 100 strategic alliances are here from SAP, and they will all make key announcements here about joint products, big golden markets, but can you imagine, three months down the line, 70 percent of them will be actually catching dust on the road. They won't even watch the people, the business cases will be the winner. And that's such a wasted opportunity. The amount of due diligence that goes into kind of creating an alliance, thinking about the business case, people putting together solutions. But then once they announce the keynote, that's where the decline really happens. There's no operational support behind, how do you take this to market. That's where WorkSpan comes in. People wanting to join sales plan, the joint marketing plan, the joint solution plan, to really operationalize that people coming together across the platform. In India we say that a marriage is between families, and that's very true. So really, an alliance is between companies, deep in the companies, not just the alliance manager working with another alliance manager. It's really marketeers, sales folks, alliance people. So, it's a family of two companies coming together. And that's where WorkSpan, why it's the foundation, the consistent process logic, and a data driven argument around it. So you can dig decisions on the base of data, to say, okay where is my alliance working, and where does it need help? You don't do post mortems after that, you can fix as you're going along. >> So let's talk about that process and data driven nature of alliances. Alliances are complex setups, just starting at the very beginning of saying, you know what, I'm, we're two companies, we overlap in areas of competition, but there's these outliers where we really can partner together to make that happy. You look on a show floor, you see brands that are obvious, you know, we're in the NetApp booth and we've talked SAP Hanna a lot, and right across the way is the Oracle booth, and they're talking heavily SAP on Oracle, so there's this opportunity to cooperate, and there's this area of competition. A lot of that is data driven, how do you capture that data and help create the process logic to help companies identify alliances and then execute upon, and manage those alliances going forward. >> Well I think that's an excellent question, so when you are living in a network in this interdependent work, you will partner in some areas and you will compete in some places. So for this network world, we need a new security model, so that only people who are allowed to see something are able to see that thing. We call this Attribute Base Access Control. Compare that to traditional applications which do role based access control, just because you're higher up in the organization, you get to see everything. But this new module of security, Attribute Based Access Control model, allows the right people to get into the right plans, so that they, and they alone, can see it. So you might be working for SAP on, let's say the Google relationship, or the Apple relationships, or the Oracle relationship, or the NetApp relationship, only those right people have those accesses. And the owners of those programs can control and secure that data. So what it allows a company to then do is, it's even more secure in this day and age. We can argue that in this day and age with GDPR and all those compliance efforts, that WorkSpan is far more secure, than sending spreadsheets out, which is the current mode of collaboration. So you can enforce a corporate policy around, what is your shared data, what's your private data. So in the same opportunity you can have private data for your own company, employees to see that as them as sort of partners. So that translucency, not transparency, but translucency is really really important when you do alliances, and that we understand is model of WorkSpan. >> So how do you help, like, for alliances marketing for example, and say there's a joint campaign, NetApp with one of their partners for example, and they wanted to do some lead generation activities, events, webinars, lunch and learns, digital campaigns, and they're gonna get leads that come in from that, and they might say, ah, okay, well I don't want to give you all of that. How do you help with some of that, I mean it kind of goes to the "coopertition" theme a little bit, but from a marketing standpoint, I'm just curious, how do you help either reduce or mitigate concerns that companies, alliance partners would have in that space, or do you come in and sort of help them from a strategic area to normalize some of these concerns? >> Yeah, so what we do is we partner with the company's marketing automation systems, so let's say NetApp is working with AP Cloud for customer. So at this event we announce the integration between WorkSpan and this AP Cloud for customer. Similarly other customers may have other marketing optimations, and you should see in a low quarter market, or a salesfirst.com, so we integrate with those systems. So what happens is marketeers can continue their contact database and their lead machine in those systems, and we get aggregate results in WorkSpan to really see which alliances are doing well. So we don't get into what marketing automation systems do, we partner and we integrate with them. So that, what happens in that, we are extending an investment the company already has made in their marketing automations tech, and we come across as a partner or alliance automations tech, so that really the alliances knew one another. And why is this important. This is important because if you're like an Intel or a NetApp, you may be working with a whole ecosystem of providers, and they themselves have their own marketing automation systems. So you imagine if you are at an intel or you're a NetApp or you're an SAP, you can get all this data back, because there's WorkSpan in the middle. So as a network, you may have just one percent of the data, but your overall network is far more intelligent than all the data you've been collecting. >> So again, whenever we get a topic like this, we have to invoke John Forrier's name and get some block chain conversation going on, from an ideal of, you know, basically there's just, you guys have become an authority of authentication, there's reputation, there's all these fundamental infrastructure things that you have to determine. And you think through, you scale this out beyond just, you know, alliances, and honestly technology is one area. There's all the attributes in manufacturing, in other companies, how does this align with, or a more aggressive question, how does this sort plant like, the ideas of smart contracts with the lies of block chain? >> Yeah, absolutely. So BlockShare is a really good implementation of what we really have done in WorkSpan. So, in WorkSpan, if you think about it, it's a network. There are transactions, they're like, flowing across different parties. And these transactions are trusted, right, across different parties. Let's say an Intel or a NetApp stays approved on our platform, the process extends to the partner and they get a contract, that simple. So in some ways, in living in a connected world, we need to have these kinds of smart contracts and trust in data source that is not just your own. We're living in a shared data world, right? So one of the key partners at Bolt, well NetApp works with this Bolt Intel as well as SAP, right. So, because SAP program funds the SAP marketing campaigns here, and they're both Intels, and they both come from trusted parties, NetApp is able to trust that data, trust that transaction that makes it too. So we provide that trans-foundation based on the qualities that.. >> Sorry, Amit, but that's kind of the trust foundation, as sort of aligns to what Bill Madridment said in his keynote this morning, about, you know, trust being this new currency. You guys have been attaining a lot of momentum in the Fortune 500 space. Tell us a little bit about how you're doing that, and then if there's a customer example that you, that's one of your favorites that you think really articulates your brand values, share that too. >> Absolutely, so we've been very fortunate that we've been trusted by a lot of Fortune 500 companies to come on the platform. Really want to orchestrate their platform and their ecosystem. And we are seeing this need that the head of alliances seen, they're going to be very strategic at the board, where they want to be data driven and numbers driven. They're no longer saying, I'm okay by saying that my alliance with such and such partner is going well. They want to be quantified, they wanna say it's going well by this much. So this is where the main value prop is, we have had companies on our platform that have generated 58 percent more leads, that have reduced their marketing cost by 50 percent. Intel and SAP specifically, this is their third year on our platform, and year on year they have collaborated more number of campaigns, deeper in the regions, where their marketeers are working with intel marketeers, for example. So they got a 24X internal marketing investment, [Lisa] Wow. where as they were expecting an eight to 10x marketing investment, so dramatically increased. For SAP, that meant 100 million dollars more than double at lower marketing cost, just because the two companies can unleash their shared potential with the shared customers across the world. Now this happened, this was not an overnight success, this is a three year success in the making, where there's deep partnership and collaboration at the regional level, at the marketeer level, and all rolling it up at the head of alliances. So Intel is one company, we have SAP of course as a marketing account. We not only work with hardware alliances like NetApp and Intel, but also their SI alliances are on WorkSpan, so large, as many as size you see here, those programs are coming at WorkSpan as well. People at Novel were invited on WorkSpan, HPE is on WorkSpan, so that's a great example as well of a Fortune 500 company. >> Wow, lot of momentum. You know, it's for companies like SAP, like WorkSpan, where you've got software and you've got something under the hood that a lot of people won't know what's happening, or further jobs don't have to know or care, it's always challenging for a brand to go, how do we show the value of our product and service is when it's not something we can touch, or see, or feel. And it's really through the validation, the best you can get, is through the voice of your customer. And the stats that you shared, you must be sort of salivating, with we can actually help you increase Legion by 58 percent, or increase revenue opportunities by 40 percent. I mean, you've got some really substantial data driven facts to show how you're transforming a business. That's got to be, that's gotta make doing business a little bit easier, that you know you've got such salitity. >> Actually when you think of the world, it's really diverse, right, but you can see patterns from this all. So when you work with a lot of partners and you're orchestrating them on your ecosystem, you're running different kinds of marketing campaigns or different sales opportunities. They have different traction depending on how you actually executed them, right. But when you step back and you say, hey, webinars don't really work well in Japan, late evening events work better in Japan. But in the US, one of the best course, it seems like webinars work better. Or such and such partner does a really good job of hiring clients in events, but this other partner I spent a lot of money with, it all seems to go in search or non advertising that I don't see a lot of benefit of, right. So you can make these data driven arguments by partner, by channel, by investment, by, you know by any metric that you want now. So now the head of alliance, this is exactly where the value profit for spenders. Now you can be totally data driven and say, this works, that doesn't work, so I should do more of this and spend less there. >> Fantastic, well Amit I wish we had more time to keep chatting, but thanks so much for stopping by and sharing not only who WorkSpan is and what you do, but some of the significant impact that you can deliver to your customers. >> Thank you so much for the opportunity, loved talking to you both. >> Likewise. We want to thank you for watching theCube, I am Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend, from SAP Sapphire 2018, thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live, from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> And welcome back to The Sands everyone. John Walls here along with Keith Townsend, and we are at Dell Technologies World, day one of three days of coverage here on theCUBE. Keith, good to see you sir, it's been a while. >> It has been about six months. >> Where have we been, and you've got that going on. You look so distinguished and professorial. >> You know what, I'm trying to make up for the lack of hair. (laughing) I appreciate that you noticed. >> Well it looks good, it looks good. Two guests with us, talking today about Extreme IO. We have Chhandomay Mandal, who is a Vice President of, or rather Director of Marketing, I gave you a promotion. >> Yeah, actually I like that. >> Can I get one, too? >> Director to VP, just like that, at Dell, and Kandy O'Mara who's a solutions architect at VMware, I'm sorry no promotion, Kandy, that's the way it goes. So Chhandomay, if you would, before we get started, let's talk about Extreme IO a little bit, and tell the viewers at home a little bit about the product and then we'll get into VMware's use of it and how that's taking shape. >> Yeah, so Extreme IO is the purpose build market leading all flash add-in. It's built on unique content, however meta data centric, party controller architecture coupled with intelligent software that helps us deliver very high performance, ranging from hundreds of thousands to millions of IOPs with consistently low sub millisecond latency, irrespective of what the system load is, how much data has written through the alley, or whatever the workload characteristics are. Now, this metadata centric architecture lends itself to a lot of other benefits, for example, we do in-line all the time data reduction on the data path, and that leads to not only very high storage efficiencies, but also, since we do not write anything that's not unique, down to the SSDs, it gives much more longevity to the SSDs themselves, driving down costs. Our thing is it's pretty simple to use. >> And probably from a customer perspective, right, that's the huge value. >> Yes, it's pretty simple to deploy. We have an intelligent HTML 5 best EY, that's consumer grade easy to use at the same time, providing all the enterprise functionalities that you'll expect. The fourth thing I'll mention is integrated copy data management, so because this is a extremely high performance all flash alley, it is expected to do great in well TP environments, marginalizer environments, but on top of it, the way it is architected, because of this always in memory metadata architecture, the copies are literally as good as production volumes, so it's not just for production, you can actually use the copies to run workloads on them, and you get the same performance, same in-line all the time data surfaces on the production, on the copies, and you can not really figure out any difference between production volume and a copy volume, so that lives in to a lot of business benefits in terms of consolidating various copies and changing the application workflows. >> So Chhandomay, we'll dig into that in a second, with the inline dedupe, inline dedupe with copy data management, but first let's bring it up higher in the stack. Kandy, amazing performance numbers out of Extreme IO, but the all flash market is an extremely crowded market. For the average use end-user, as you engage customers, and you come to them, you know VMware runs VMware or Dell Technologies runs best on Dell Technologies, how do you help customers, even when you look at the Dell Technologies portfolio, when you have all flash V sand, you have Isolon, you have Isolon with flash, you have all these solutions, how do you help them navigate the broad portfolio and them come to the, give us some typical use cases for an Extreme IO. >> Right. For our instance, the first implementation of Extreme IO we have done was with SAP Hanna. Now that's an in-flash memory database, so, everything's in flash, you need a really fast backend storage array. So extreme IO, all flash with sub millisecond latency is a perfect fit. If your database is all-in memory, you can't have a slow storage behind it. You'll lose the performance, right, your database will become degraded. So that was our reason for going that direction, was because of the all flash memory of SAP Hanna. Now, the rest of those infrastructures actually have good use cases for other things, but in this case, for us, it was extreme IO. >> So let's focus in on that SAP Hanna usage. So SAP, in memory database, a lot of SI's will tell you you know what, the storage layer just needs to be fast, it doesn't have to be extreme IO fast, what do you guys find, what was the specific advantages in the SAP Hanna that brought you down to extreme IO. I mean the rights are done in memory, so. >> Well, actually the rights actually go to the disc. It is in memory, but it still has to write to disc and get the response back, especially the rights, right? >> Especially on SAP Hanna, it has very specific requirements in terms of when you're loading up the database, it needs to load up in a very specific. >> Kandy: It's like a tenth of a second, they use. >> For SAP Hanna, even though it is a new memory database. >> Right, that's where the misconception is, people think oh we put out slower storage, no you actually need the storage to be able to respond back to the database as quick as it does. The minimum requirement, I mean the maximum latency is like a tenth of a second, I mean it's really low. But it's sub millisecond, so we have no latency, we are actually getting a through-put in the performance. And there's other benefits with it as well, always on the reduction, that's huge, that's a big factor. When you don't have to have multiple copies sitting on your array, that saves you a lot of capacity. >> So people are saying, crowded market, lot of options, lot of choices, what was it for you that specifically said, okay, this is our product, this is what we want to dance with, so to speak, because you've got a lot of options. >> It was basically, it was the response that was needed for performance, and it was all flash, we were making a decision on where we wanted to run SAP Hanna, we did not have it implemented anywhere else, and we were like, we have existing infrastructure, and we were moving to a new data center, and we had to make a decision where we wanted to go, and extreme IO fit the bill, it met many of our different requirements. One of them was performance, the second one was the total lower cost of ownership, and then the snap technology, that was huge. >> So, let's talk a little bit more about that snap technology. I've spent a lot of time as an SAP infrastructure architect, and one of the most painful parts of SAP operations is being able to refresh DEV, QA, M plus One, the lower environments from production. What advantages have your, have you and your customers seen using snap management with extreme IO? >> So, let me kind of give you the broader view, and then you can talk about the very specific instances that you have seen. Extreme IO's snapshot technology, we call it Extreme IO actual copies, they are best in, best on the in-memory metadata. And extreme IO doesn't write anything on the SSDs unless it's unique across the entire cluster. Snapshots, by definition, is a copy. Like you mount it and make it writeable, so, for us, when you take a snapshot, it's an extremely fast operation, because all that we are doing is updating the metadata in memory, and then, if you are keeping it as a prediction copy, say for example, like as a read-only, just to recover from a disaster, then that's one purpose, but then the other purpose is use them as writeable snapshot, where, you can run your DES DEV, copy for backup, all of those things. Now, why can it do these things? The reason is, all these copies, they are not consuming any extra space. Until you are writing something unique to it as a DES DEV copy, right? So now, you have that capability of consolidating lots of copies, in our tradition, I mean, our customers base, for every database, there is literally like five to eight copies, 60% of the storage that gets consumed is essentially copies now if you consolidated all those copies into the single alley without consuming any extra capacity at the same time delivering that very high performance, not only for your production environment, but also for your DES DEVs, Qas, sandboxing, that gives the customer a lot of values, not only in terms of infrastructure dollars, but also transforming the application workflows, improving the productivity of the developers, and the storage admin, VM admin in general. So that's where we kind of see across the board from our VS customers. Now, alright, what's your experience? >> I'm like, "wow." No, actually what we do is, we're a little different. We actually use the writeable performance snapshots, we use them at our DR site, and what we'll do there is we'll mount those into a test bubble, and it is having our production environment, instead of needing a separate DEV environment, we can mount basically, in a little isolated bubble, those writeable snapshots, or copies, and test anything we want in our true little production environment. And then toss it away when we're done. So we can test out a new release, or we can do something different with the database or an application, and then when we're done, toss it away, that way we don't need so many different environments built out so it's a savings there. We don't make the local copies, what you guys were talking about for staging DEV, those are already built out, but we do put those on the same array now. Used to be, you'd have production on one array and stage on a different, right? But now, because they're similar, and you want the dedupe and the compression benefits, you want them on the same array, because that's where you gain that. The snapshots we do at the target, we play with those, the writeable, it's performance ready. It's the same performance as if you were on the source, which is a big game changer there for us. >> And I think it's really, from a technical perspective, really important to know why extreme IO is so much better at snapshot management. One of the things that Sanders will warn us, is that snapshots degrade performance over a period of time, so therefore the fact that you guys have a dedicated metadata subsystem helps improve overall performance. But I'd like to talk about your use case for extending to your DR side. So, from DR DI, what do you guys use to replicate data from one extreme IO to your DR? >> Right now, we, for us right now with SAP Hanna, we're using recover point with extreme io snapshots, which is fabulous because once the two sync up, the first initial sync, at that point, recover point literally just goes out and gets a snap diff and that's all the data is transferring over, so it lowers the requirements of your LAN, you know the bandwidth requirements are lower, so that's what we're using today. It's a great tool for us. And that way, we can mount it at the target site. >> And then just briefly, we're about out of time. Chhandomay, if you would, going forward, let's talk about where you are in terms of development, what you see as being maybe the next critical phase for extreme IO. >> So, in fact, here in Dell Technologies world, we are announcing the ability of our native repetition technology. Kandy mentioned she is using extreme IO with Recover Point that's a great solution. Now, we are going to have the native repetition technology and what's different from other solutions that are out there is this replication is also metadata aware, and as a result, it's not only sending only the unique data over the web, but also it's globally deduped and complex. And, suppose on your target site, you already have a data block. That might be unique for your primary site, and hence the primary says hey I need to send over this data and our protocol is going to say, yep, I have this metadata, I already have it, so send me the metadata pointer to it, and we are all done, we don't even need to send that unique block that was in the primary site, if it happens to stay, or it happens to exist, on the secondary site. As a result, we see great reduction in the wan bandwidth that's going to be used, and the total capacity that you will need between primary and secondary. So that will also be reduced. In fact, our numbers that we are going to say, you can get 38% less storage capacity wise, and wan bandwidth could be reduced as high as 75 to 80% based on the traditional mechanisms. >> So we actually did a test on this to see the performance between replicating a database using Recover Point on extreme IO with snapshots, and then we also did it with extreme IO data replication, and it was eight times faster. It was eight times faster replicating the same amount of data. >> So less data loss in case of emergency, just a higher level of service to the business. >> Nothing like a happy customer, right? >> Yeah. >> I actually love this product, I would not be talking about it, I really like extreme IO and I've been doing this for a while. >> Well, Kandy and Chhandomay, thanks for being with us, we appreciate the time, sorry about the promotion. (laughing) I think you've earned it though. Thanks for joining us, we appreciate it. >> Together: Thank you. >> Back with more from Dell Technologies World here in Las Vegas, you're watching theCUBE, back in just a bit.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2017, brought to you by VMware, and it's Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to VMworld 2017 in Las Vegas. We're at the Mandalay Bay Convention Center. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, Peter Burris. Mike Arterbury is here, he's the Vice President of Technology Alliances at DELLEMC, Mike, welcome to theCUBE. >> Dave, thanks. Peter, great to see you guys again. >> The Ecosystem is absolutely exploding. VMware is on fire, the data center is on fire, you know, the technology business is just, as Pat and Michael were saying this morning, this is going to be the most boring time ever, relative to the future. >> Right. >> What's happening in the Ecosystem, bring us up to date. >> Well I think as Michael and Pat have talked about this week, pretty proficiently, is the fact that technology transitions are all out in front of us right? It's a new world, the opportunity for both On-prem and Off-prem infrastructure is all out in front of the companies, the family of companies, and we're putting together some of the best offers, the best combinations of technology. The DELLEMC infrastructure, VMware, Infrastructure Management, and a host of ISVs that, whose workloads we combined with all of our infrastructure and platform technology, to drive customer outcomes. >> It, it-- >> Well actually, let me jump in on this real quick if I may. So one of the things about Ecosystems, is that there's a danger in the metaphor of the Ecosystem, because an Ecosystem evolves in response to a number of things. But Ecosystems in the Tech industry require care and feeding. They have to be set up, they have to, contracts have to be written, programs have to be put in place. This is really, really hard work, and it's undervalued by customers too much. So tell us, talk to us a little bit about the work that goes into forming an Ecosystem, sustaining an Ecosystem, and then creating new degrees of freedom, in some of these partnerships, as these new problems emerge, and these new types of complexities, and these interesting problems, get to be solved. >> Well, so I'll start at the start, which is, we've got the vestige of two great partnering companies, Dell classically, and EMC classically. EMC classically partnered much more deeply at a technology level, and Dell partnered at a go-to-market level right? They could monetize in a high-velocity way, these partnerships. When you put the two companies together, you get both the monetization and the technology, the deep technical alignment between the partner, and Dell, but you can start at the very simplest instantiation of a solution. A vSAN Ready Node, or a VxRail, a hyper-converged appliance. Basically we take VMware, goodness, in their storage, software-defined storage offer, and we combine that with a very tightly configured set of offers from our PowerEdge Server lineup, and our VxRail lineup, and we test the configurations, and we test them and tighten them, and test them and tighten them, so that we can give customers a very prescriptive understanding of what their outcome's going to be, when they deploy a hyper-converged offer, running on DELLEMC infrastructure. >> So for what that means, if I can, sorry Dave, what that means is that in your... So the partnership then becomes measured, not just in terms of whether the logos are together, but whether or not it's been engineered together. Whether it's been tested together-- >> Tested together, validated, you bet. >> Whether it's court regimes are put in place, and that's different from how we used to think about partnerships. >> Well, and that's a critical point, and Andy Jassy on stage this week, basically said, "Hey, this is not a Barney deal," Barney being I love you, you love me, let's do a press release. It's got substantive engineering going on, and so that's really what differentiates a core partnership that has teeth, versus one that's just what we call a Barney deal. But I wanted to ask you to go back to the sort of different cultural nuances that you mentioned, Dell, high-volume, high-velocity, EMC, very high-touch, bring those two worlds together. Are there inherent conflicts there, or were you able to, are you in the process of sort of re-engineering how you form those partnerships? >> You know, interestingly enough, in the 2000s, I managed the partnership between Dell and EMC from the Dell side, and we created a lot of good customer outcomes, by combining their storage platforms, our go-to-market prowess but, but it was all learnings that we could transform the business with, when we actually did a hard-core marriage between the two companies. So I would tell you then, it was two companies trying to play nice together. Now, it's one company, and we're playing really effectively together so-- >> Well, I tell ya something there, I talked to Chad about this at a show recently, and asked Michael Dell about it as well. If you look back, that was an epic partnership that you entered, and the outcomes were tremendous, and I argued that in fact, if Michael had had a mulligan, that he would've just bought EMC sooner, and drive the, drove that integration sooner, he essentially said, "Yeah I wish I could've "Bought EMC sooner." But I think that to your point, you had, you know a partnership, and now that you're one company, you can really drive some outcomes that you couldn't through you know, smaller tuck-in acquisitions are you seeing that? >> Absolutely, so what we have today, because of the combination, because of the marriage, is one portfolio. Compute, storage, networking, combined with the goodness from our family of offers, whether it's VMware or Pivotal, you heard a great announcement about Pivotal today, and what they're doing with Kubernetes. So we're going to be able to combine all of those things, the breadth of our portfolio, in a way that we never could before when it was a partnership based on siloed offerings. Now we can really build solutions, and we've got a whole family of products, which we call Ready Solutions, that combine cross business unit portfolios, and our family of products as well. >> So can you talk about the scope of some of the technology partnerships, maybe get specific on, on some of the ones that you're exited about, I mean, I know you're excited about them all but-- >> Sure, sure-- >> In the time we have maybe you could address it-- >> So principally, I would start with VMware. While VMware is a family member of ours, we still manage the relationship much like we would a partnership, where you have to play team ball, and drive your technologies together, and test them, and ruggedize them. But once you get past the infrastructural software of virtualization, customers don't stop at virtualization, they run workloads on that virtual infrastructure, so you look at SAP, and what we're doing with Hanna, and IoT, and Leonardo. You look at what we're doing frankly, with Microsoft, what we're doing with some of the public Cloud providers, in connecting both our infrastructure on premises, with the capabilities of the Public Cloud, in a way that leverages the most appropriate Cloud to run a particular piece of software, and a particular workload in. Those workloads are going to gravitate towards the best usage model for a customer, but we want to have a full compliment of offering so that we can offer the right Cloud for the right customer at the right time, and the right price. >> So I got two quick questions for you, and one draws off of what you just said, and that is the, I really like that notion of technology partnership, and go-to-market partnership, and the expertise at EMC, and the expertise at Dell. Customers want invention, which is the engineering element, the technology partnership. But they also want the innovation side, which is, it's been applied to my business, and I'm adopting it, and it's creating business value for me, and I'm finding, are you finding, that as Dell broadens it's, or DELLEMC broadens this notion that even the technology partnerships are becoming informed by the innovation, or the go-to-market partnerships, so that it's making the technology side that much more successful? >> Absolutely, so we want, every day in the hardware business you have to fight commoditization, you fight that by simply adding value right? It could be business model value, it could be technology value. We add innovation everywhere we can. So those combinations both of our technology, and our partners technology, but in a way that doesn't just combine it, it doesn't make it any easier to buy, it makes it easier to operate. It makes it easier to understand, it makes it easier for a seller to sell it, and a customer to buy it and consume it. So you'll hear Chad talk about an easy button a lot. That is our mission in solutions, is to combine those things in a way that makes it easy for everyone. >> So here's the second question I have. And it's going to be a challenge out to you, because increasingly as companies become more digital businesses, and recognize the role that these technologies play in driving their business models and their go forward, they are struggling with this question of partnership. They are still driving with procurement, driving with taking cost out, et cetera, when in fact, they have to find ways to drive with partnership and strategy, and whatnot. What can DELLEMC do to train this industry about how to do partnership better? >> Well, I think you demonstrate the value that you create for a customer, for a partner, for a seller in these combinations. If you can show that you create real value through your innovation, through your great partnering, then that's value that any one of those constituents can align to. You create value, you let them harvest that value, and they will come back to you again, and again, and again. >> So we have to go Mike, but last question is, how do you see, or do you see your Ecosystem of technology partners sort of reforming, not only to the new DELLEMC, but also to this new Cloud reality, that I'm not going to put everything in the Cloud, I'm going to bring the Cloud model to my data? >> Right, I think VMware's going to play a pivotal role in that right, because they are the-- >> Unintended right? >> They are unintended. They are the kings of workload management today, and what customers really want, from the Public Cloud, or the Private Cloud, is a way to move those virtual machines around in a very seamless way. So at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter where you operate that workload, you're going to operate it in the location that it best serves your mission as a customer. And so I think they're going to play a very instrumental role in how we do that going forward. >> Mike Arterbury, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. But really Peter, to your point, this is hard work, and customers generally undervalue it, but they expect it, and it adds a lot of value, so thanks very much for sharing your perspectives. >> Thank you guys. >> Your welcome, alright keep it right there everybody, we're going wall to wall, this is day two, two sets here at SiliconANGLE, theCUBE, and WikiBond. We'll be back, right after this short break. (alternative music)

>> Narrator: It's theCube, covering Sapphire Now 2017, brought to you by SAP Cloud Platform and Hana Enterprise Cloud. >> Hi, welcome to theCube, I'm Lisa Martin, with my cohost George Gilbert, we are covering SAP Sapphire Now 2017. George, we've just watched the keynote, the very dynamic keynote with quite a few characters, I want to get your take on some of the things we heard in the keynote today, Bill McDermot kicked it off very lively, one of the first things that was interesting to me, and I'd love to get your opinion, that the journey to the club requires empathy and transparency. It's not often something that we hear from an CEO. What were your thoughts on his vision as to what SAP is doing around empathy and transparency. >> I guess I would take it in the soft skills that it might have been intended which was, empathy in that there's going to be changed management, not just because you're moving the operational capabilities from on-prem to the cloud, but because you're exposing new capabilities that will impact how people do their jobs. And transparency I think is part of the program of migration where you're going to break some things as you move them, and this is going to call out in the process of migration what few things you need to change. I think that's what he meant by transparency, because it's not a complete seamless lift and shift. >> Definitely. I think another thing that kind of jumped to mind is that, not only are these firsts changing, they talked about the digital core and the essential elements of that, but also the fact that they are listening to their customers, customers saying we want transparency, we want to see how things are going like you said, it's not a lift and shift, we need to get more understanding, but I think the undertone of we're listening to our customers was quite strong, when they talked about the new SAP Cloud Trust Center, that seemed to really bring it home in terms of what he was talking about, where not just customers of SAP, but that they're using Hana, can see what's happening within their cloud infrastructures, but also people who aren't using it yet, so really broadening transparency to foster new customers, and acquiring new customers going forward. >> Yes, I guess with the transparency, the footprint for enterprise applications is just growing and growing, and he talked about at one point, we're not just talking to the CIO, the CEO has to be involved, the head of sales, head of procurement, head of supply chain, and I think it is related to the idea of the digital core, and then the what they call the sort of win applications around them, which is the core where the traditional systems of record and the win, they're like the AI in machine learning and Internet of Things and Blockchain, these are strategic new capabilities that enable applications, not just about efficiency, but about opening up new business models, new product and service lines, things like that. >> And they talked about, you mentioned, they talked about openness as the game changer with the nucleus of a digital enterprise being that digital core. You talked about machine learning, AI, blockchain, give us a little bit of an insight as to this expansion of Leonardo, they talked a lot about Leonardo, what were some of the things that really stuck out in your mind as the new capabilities, and who's their audience here. >> Okay, great questions, because their audience is not the typical, their typical buyer was the CFO, because it cost so much, so he had to be involved. IT, the CIO, because he had to sort of standardize the infrastructure on which it ran. And then between the two of them, they were essentially putting in a platform for business process efficiency, and that's what they called the core, and then Leonardo is now the win that surrounds that And that has, they see that having transformational capabilities, and that impacts then not just the departments that were looking for efficiency, but looking for transformation, so that's why they have to get involved, the head of sales, the head of procurement, supply chain, things like that. It's a different sell, just to offer an example, the best description I ever heard for trying to sell enterprise software is like trying to get a bill through both houses of congress, and congress just got a lot bigger. >> So from a target audience perspective, we know that they work with small medium sized businesses, Enterprise, we had Google on stage, they're partnering with Apple, with Facebook, etc, looking at Leonardo, from a target audience perspective, are they talking to mostly the large enterprise north of 1500 employees? >> Those customers come first, because they always have the more sophisticated, greater number of more sophisticated skillsets in place, and as these systems mature from the early adopters, they work the kinks out they're able to generalize things better, and then it's more easily absorbed into the main stream. McDermot said something interesting, which was you're either an early adopter or an also ran. I think he's trying to motivate people to get started, but the adoption curve doesn't really change just because we're doing more advanced technologies. >> One of the things that interested me, is if you look at a small to medium business, and they mentioned a number of businesses, Mod Pizza for example, during the intro, and there's a great video about them on their website, but if you look at an SMB or SMBE about, as a competitor, they're much smaller, typically, much more agile, much more nimble, that was one of the things I was sort of expecting to hear in some sense in the keynote about the small enterprises really becoming the disruptors because they can react and move faster than a larger legacy incumbent. What were your thoughts there? >> In Tech we look at the smaller to mid sized companies as being more nimble, but that's changed in the last few years, where the big incumbents, the rich just get richer, partly because, partly because they have these data assets that they can keep turning into newer and newer products. That may change in the next few years, but right now, the more data you have the more your advantage. And the capital intensity is for the most part so low that they can use all their profits just to buy the little guys who look promising. That's in tech, outside tech, I think the answer to your question will be, how easy can SAP make it to absorb and install and implement and run their system. In the past it was so flexible that you really needed extremely sophisticated implementation advice to get it up and running. If they've taken that out and simplified it, and made it like just, you know, configure these buttons, then that would make a difference. I'm not sure we have seen the answer to that yet. >> Okay, playing on the incumbency theme if you will. Google, Diane Green was on stage, and, at Google Cloud Nexus just a couple of months ago here in San Francisco, they announced a partnership with SAP to deliver Hanna on Google Cloud platform, and today they talked about kind of the expansion of that, they had a customer, a consulting agency that was their proof in the pudding. And one of the things Bill McDermot did say was we are now partnering with Apple with Facebook with Google, so they're talking about some of these incumbents, looking at Google as an incumbent, but also as a competitor of Microsoft Azure, of AWS who SAP also works with, what was your take on the conversation that Diane Green had in announcing this expansion and hey here's a consultancy that's leveraging SAP Han into Google Cloud. >> Well Diane Green had to talk about both, because just running SAP on the Google Cloud platform, without sentient systems integrated to help, a customer who might want to buy it in, implement it, and then integrate it with their existing systems, they probably can't do that on their own, because SAP is still complex enterprise software, even if some of the operational capabilities are offloaded to a cloud vendor, so she needed both SAP and an implementation partner to say hey we're serious, but I guess I would add that when you're evaluating SAP there's more than just the core app, the core app is sort of the center of the universe for a customer who is looking to take their systems of record into the cloud, but there's an ecosystem on each cloud that surrounds that that makes it easy to build applications that leverage, that ecosystem's richest on Amazon, it's not far behind on Azure, and Google is still booting that up. >> So what advantage does this SAP partnership with Google give to Google, but also what advantage of any does it give to SAP? >> Okay, great question, so on the advantage to Google, it puts them as a peer, or more closer as a peer to Azure and Amazon, and then to SAP they can say we're cloud agnostic, I believe their infrastructure technology is both made up of Cloud Foundry which is cross cloud technology coming from Pivotal, and then Open Stack as a sort of infrastructure technology that's coming from a whole bunch of the legacy IT vendors who didn't want to be beholden to Amazon. >> What are the other things today, if we look at future trends, and that's kind of what I was expecting to hear, and we heard about a lot of them, big data block chain, we heard about IOT, industrial IOT, IOE, Deep Learning, they talked a lot about how Leonardo was going to facilitate machine learning, artificial intelligence, really help deliver automation, but one of the things that I was wondering if we were going to hear about was mobile. So a few months ago, I look at my notes here, they announced, I believe it was at Mobile World Congress, this partnership with Apple, so SAP opened their cloud platform to iOS developers with the goal of really establishing a bigger presence in mobile apps to power iPhones, etc, with Hana. Curious about did you expect to hear things about mobile today, or was that not part of the plan. >> If I had expected to hear more it would have been from a partner like IBM. Because with Apple they were essentially creating a toolkit for people to be able to build user interfaces on an iOS phone, and I think they've done Android as well, but in other words, the developer is left to their imaginations to fill in the functional capabilities of whatever app, they just have a frame work that makes building an Apple UI accessible. What IBM did with Apple was actually more significant, which was, hey we have all these industry solution groups, and we all these bright ideas functionality in the cloud, but we dont' have an accessible way to deliver it. SO what IBM teamed up to do with Apple, wasn't just give me, tell Apple give me an iOS UI development kit, it was let's collaborate on building some real apps that pilots need, that delivery folks or field servers folks need. So, I guess, I wasn't blown away by what they did with Apple. >> Okay, maybe that's a to be continued. One of the other themes that we heard today from Brad Luker, was software needs to become a strategy and that openness in that respect is an absolute game changer, allowing machine learning integration, social data integration for customer profiling, and really helping these user of SAP understand customer behaviors. He also said that every company today regardless of size needs to drive innovation by connecting all these business processes when software becomes strategy. What was your take on that from a thematic perspective, as well as a real world implication perspective for SAP customers from the small enterprises to the large. >> You know, I would have through that that would be the whole focus, you know the famous Mark Andersen SA from several years ago, Software's Eating the World. It's now really kind of data is eating software, it's data programs the machine learning algorithms that increasingly make up software. But he was a little bit, he talked at a high level about it, the only example I recall was Hybris, which is their commerce front end, where they're going to link marketing sales service, support, customer experience, and they're going to open this up through micro services, so that other developers can easily leverage these capabilities. That to me was end to end processes integrated on a SAP platform, but I would have liked to have seen a lot more examples of that. >> So you talked about Hybris, and on the Leonardo front, the expansion of that, they really talked about this expansion of Leonardo giving companies the ability to reinvent, that word has been used a lot by a lot of companies including Dell, years ago reinvent, reimagine, that could be used to mean a lot of things, but they talked about that as a facilitator of intelligently connecting lots of things, people, processes, systems, etc, what's your take on Leonardo as an accelerator of innovation as they positioned it to be. >> You know, that was sort of to re-emphasize they called the digital core, which is their legacy, not in a bad way, that's their asset that they can leverage to move in any direction. The traditional apps. And Leonardo was the win capability, how to leapfrog your competition. And they used this wonderful example of a win farm, where they could then look at a particular instance of a winmill and find where the stresses were and a capability I haven't seen yet, they were actually able to put a virtual sensor on that errant winmill and see where the stresses were coming from. But that capability isn't completely unique, there's GE and Predicts, and there's Parametric Technology with their Thingworks, and IBM has their Genius of Things, they're not alone in going after this notion of the digital twin and integrating it within the entire business process life cycle, their value add should be to make it easy to create that life cycle for the digital twin as designed as built as deployed as serviced as operated, to make that possible without tons of programing and to link it in with core business processes like field service, but again, it seemed a little bit more like a scenario than a finished app. >> Okay maybe you're saying for them to be differentiated it needs to be more of a me too, it needs to be much more simpler, maybe this is just the precipice they're on, and just didn't context it that way. >> It felt like a hey this is where we're moving to, as opposed to this is where we already are, and they have a lot of assets to bring to bear to get to that point, it just, they weren't really concrete in saying okay here's the functionality we have today, here's what we're going to add over the next 12 to 18 months, so it felt more like a this is where we're going. >> That's a good point that you bring that up from a road map perspective, and perhaps that will appear in some of the break ads which I would anticipate because they talked about that in the transparency and the empathy part of the keynote when Bill McDermot was first on stage about we're listening to our customers, we need to show you these roadmaps, so they did mention in text having impressed as well that it's for three particular products that they have these three year road maps, and obviously they'll be adding more over time. But if you look at SAP, 45 year old company, their roots in on-prem ERP, looking at their evolution and even kind of getting to the topic we were just on, the virtual reality and understanding sensors, is this a natural progression of an ERP company to transition to completely the cloud, help keep their customers there, establish this nucleus of the digital core, and then expand upon things to bring in machine learning, advanced analytics, predictive modeling. Is that a natural expansion? >> You know it's funny the way you asked that, because I think the answer is yes. But it happened in this wave where first it's completely custom, and you have the excentures, PWCs and the specialized sort of system integrators, the small ones that have boutique capabilities in big data and machine learning. They start building those sorts of apps first for big companies, or for internet center companies who really need to be at the bleeding edge, then comes the IBMs of the world where they have these semi-repeatable capabilities, custom development in the industry solutions groups and in their global business services, and so they're there composing a bunch of semi-finished piece parts, and then when it gets to SAP, it should be pretty much almost packaged and SAP goes in and configures it for the customers, in other words they flip a bunch of switches that make choices, so you go from completely custom to configured and almost fully packaged, and that's a natural progression over time, and every time we encounter newer technology that starts on the back, goes again to the fully custom solution, so I guess I do expect SAP to follow this pattern, their sweet spot, their business model is the repeatable stuff. >> When they talked about running core businesses in the cloud to get the benefits of scale, elasticity, availability, I think this was actually Byrne that was saying that they need to be using intelligent apps to automate as much as possible the hyper connectivity as they were talking about is really going to enable that, and he did predict that 80 percent of business processes will be running through SAP or 80 percent of them running will be fully autonomous in the near future. That's a bold number. >> Yeah, you know and that's the number behind the anxiety that everyone has about so what happens to my job, especially when we have conversational bots, we don't need host on our shows, I mean it's a bit of an exaggeration. There are a lot of people who worry that jobs will get completely automated, and then there are other people who say look, it's not every task I do that can be automated, it's some tasks, and there will be a machine that augments me, and changes the nature of my work, but doesn't replace me. One example is Gary Kasparov, who was beaten by IBMs Deep Blue chess playing program, I forget how long ago, maybe 12 or something like that. The best chess players in the world now, are not the computers, they're the ones who pair with a grandmaster with a computer playing against another grand master with a computer, because there's an intuition as to where to look that is not completely replacing human judgment. It's more like a compliment of judgment and then raw calculating horsepower. >> Interesting accompaniment. Well George, thanks for sharing your insights on the keynote, from SAP Sapphire Now. For George Gilbert, I'm Lisa Martin, stick around, we've got more coverage from SAP Sapphire now 2017. (upbeat electronic music)