>> Narrator: It's the Cube. Covering Sapphire Now 2017. Brought to you by SAP Cloud Platform. And HANA Enterprise Cloud. (electronic music) >> Welcome to the Cube everyone. We're here for the special exclusive Sapphire Now 2017 coverage from Palo Alto studio. I'm John Furrier, three days of Sapphire coverage. Our next guest is Jason Kotsaftis who's with Senior Director Database Solutions at EMC. Who came in here in Palo Alto. You guys have some news down there, full team down there. I know, normally we cover SAP, it's our first year we're doing it from our studio. But EMC's always been on the cube. You guys had a great relationship with SAP. I think our first year we've done the cube in 2010. >> Jason: That's right, yes, I remember. >> You were that SAP Sapphire. >> You guys were. You were on the Cube. You've been with us for awhile, but the relationship with an SAP, and EMC, now Dell EMC, it's pretty significant. What's the big news you guys have going on? >> Yeah, I mean, it's a huge relationship for us. We've been, even before we were merged with Dell, one of our top partnerships. Now it's even bigger. We've been amazed at how much Dell had been doing with SAP, and we're bringing the best of the two companies together right now. So, yeah, we have a huge presence at Sapphire as you mentioned. We saw Michael Dell do a brief speech at the show, and I thought that really helped set the stage for, not just Dell and EMC with SAP, but even some of the words he said were a good microcosm of Dell and EMC talking about the importance of bringing together people and processes. And we're going through that right now, and we're we're going through how we're going to merge the portfolio to go after Cloud, go after HANA, internet of things, data center transformation, all of those major things. >> Well surely SAP, the theme is Cloud, Multi-Cloud is a big message. >> SAP Cloud platform, we had Dan Lahl on the Cube. We also interviewed the HANA Enterprise Cloud group there also, got a huge alliance with Amazon Web Service, Terry Wise, there. We all saw Century Link. So you start to see the industry formation going on. The fog is lifting, you're starting to get some clear visibility on swim lanes, tactics, we'll help people with settling in. Whatever metaphor you want to use, people are finding it. Dell EMC is just absolutely just a monster now. I mean that in a good way, I don't mean that in a bad way. But it's so big. EMC was already very powerful, and winning in the storage business. Great enterprise jobs, the sales force, the culture, really well, great culture as you know, we know them. Dell has been lean and mean, like a speed boat. Great with channels, great with operations, very lean and efficient. EMC, the direct selling, you bring them together and now the supplier relationships are changed. I was talking with your team. Dell brings to the table deep Microsoft Intel relations. Not that you guys didn't have them, but they have deep relationships. >> Correct. >> You guys bring deep relationships. How has that new culture dealings changed your relationship? And specifically, what's the impact to SAP? >> Sure, you know, great question. First of all, it's been very complimentary. And we felt that going into the merger. I've been at EMC for 21 years right. So I had worked with Dell 10-15 years ago. Very, very complimentary, and you nailed it. They're very good at one segment of the market historically, we're very good at another. You know, for the most part I think it's been a really, really good matching, made sense from merger perspective. If we think about SAP for a second, one of the first things that we've been bringing together is, we have two very complimentary HANA portfolios. So, HANA is obviously a huge focus for SAP customers. I was just at Dell EMC world last week, every single customer that I talked to, whether they were running Oracle or Microsoft, they're all asking about HANA. We had a great focus at EMC with our enterprise HANA systems. And at Dell they have a very good packaged appliances and Scale Up bundles. And right now we feel like we can address the whole breath of what people may want to do with HANA. Whether it's, TDI, Scale Up, Scale Out. Very, very strong and >> John: Where does HANA fit in, because I want you to just take a minute to explain this, because it used to be a blanket word, even when they were kind of getting it out early. It was great marketing from the beginning, You know, it has legacy to it, but as the market changed, HANA changed. And as SAP changed, they changed from their positioning. Specifically, they used to call it HANA Cloud Platform. And they have HANA Enterprise Cloud. Now they've renamed it to SAP Cloud Platform, which is the platform as a service, the cloud native stuff. And then HANA Enterprise Cloud, which is really the managed service. So from your perspective, how do you define what HANA is today. And where is is settling in? Is it just the core engine of SAP? But how's it relate to all these new things? >> Yeah, for us it's really a platform. So if we think about where HANA began when we started working with SAP, it was all about analytics. Collecting data, analyzing data, making better business decisions. Now with S4 on the horizon, and the inevitable cut over to that from all the other enterprise applications of SAP, we really view it as a platform. And it's going to have big implications. If we look at our own SAP install base at EMC, there's a lot of customers that run Oracle underneath their SAP apps. So it's part of the HANA transformation, where we're going to be getting them, hopefully, on the road to, not just take advantage of HANA today, but as they go forward how are they going to get ready for S4 and have, hopefully, a smooth migration path to that. >> Obviously their cloud platform, I mean, their cloud strategy, or cloud direction. I don't know if you can have a cloud strategy. As Michael Dell said, Clouds like the internet, it's everything. >> Jason: Right. >> So, there's no real strategy, it's just the way life is. They're going to be on premise and off premise. And they're clearly targeting multiple Clouds, unlike say Oracle, for instance. But neither here nor there. The point is, is that on premise there's still going to be a 10 year plus journey, nothing's going to be disappearing over night. So the on prem Cloud dynamic is interesting, cuz they used the word mission critical. That was a big buzz word with when I talked to Michael Dell, He banged home mission critical. A lot of the teams in Dell EMC World last week was around mission critical work loads and choice. So you guys have that same mojo going on with SAP, how is that translating for you guys? Big new business, new opportunities? >> Great question. So one of the big things that we've acquired and focused on in the SAP space was Virtustream. So they've been a really big off premise cloud provider for us, but at the same time, when you look at what we've been building at EMC even before that we had our own enterprise hybrid cloud offering. One of the things that we're talking about this week at Sapphire is actually bringing those two together. So we can have people have an off premise and an on premise experience, a single view of their data, a uniform way to manage SAP in the cloud, and to the point of mission critical like you said is, as much as we see people moving to the cloud, there are still people that want to have for certain production systems they want to control that. They don't want to give it off to the cloud yet. They may not want to control the hardware but they certainly want to control the data. And with this new relationship that we're blending in the EHC and Virtustream we can actually allow them to have that choice to your point. >> John: What's EHC? >> The EMC Enterprise Hybrid Cloud. So that's our own self service automation of software framework that we put around the cloud. >> Which cloud, your cloud or other people's cloud? >> Right now it's our cloud offering. >> So you have a public cloud. >> We have a cloud offering that's a hybrid cloud offering. That you can deploy on premise or off premise, and Virtustream has been historically used off premise. >> So you use Virtustream as your off premise component of that piece? >> Correct. >> That makes sense. Cuz you bought them in January, I get that. >> That's right, and we had to bring the two together, and that's been a big new step for us. In that regard we think it's very, very complementary for SAP, that's one option we provide, right. We also work through SAP's own offerings to make sure we give them the right and the best infrastructure behind what they're trying to do with their own cloud. I was at a large partner of ours recently, OpenText, and we were talking about content archive, all the things that they do there, they're very deep in the SAP cloud, so we're working with them to start to potentially build the right archiving and capabilities behind that. >> So what's the big news for SAP this year, obviously we saw the coverage, we got some folks calling in, we had some folks down on the floor giving us some input, but from an SAP EMC, Dell, now Dell EMC relationship, what's the big news, what's the big story for you guys? What are you leading with, what's the announcements, be specific. >> The big news is we're all about the cloud. The bringing together of the on premise and off premise EMC Enterprise Hybrid Cloud Virtustream, giving them that uniform way to consume SAP in a cloud based model, whether it be on premise or off premise, that is absolutely our biggest new highlight. >> You guys released that was a hard news that went out for you guys or... >> Yeah it was part of an EHC evolution story that we brought out, the other things that we have that are not necessarily formally announced but are more things that help the day to day administration of SAP applications, we often forget about that. We're pushing people to the cloud and we all talk about cloud. >> So there's no big splash in the pool like, hey we're releasing a new VxRail version of whatever, it's momentum specific. >> Correct. >> What are the big momentum's you plan, you can look back now and we've seen a lot of the evolution, we've seen the relationship with SAP grow, we've seen the converge infrastructure movement, now going to a whole nother level, hybrid cloud and converge infrastructure is happening. What's the new wave that you guys are riding with SAP together besides the cloud, it's generically cloud. What's specifically, can the customer pinpoint that you guys have solved? >> I think you just touched upon it, it's the whole build versus buy model. So historically if you look at where the SAP customers spend the most of their money, it's the op ex. It's the operational expense of administering and maintaining the SAP landscapes. >> You mean like total cost of ownership stuff, just like, easing some of the pain between deployment and costing. >> Workflow automation, copy clone refresh, backup recovery, performance automation, disaster recovery, all the things that you got to do to keep the SAP applications generating value to the business is heavy operational cost to them. That holds them back from doing innovation and investments. >> Those are the details you got to get down and dirty on. >> Yeah. We've done some great studies with you guys on this, one of the things that, there's different ways to go about tackling that. One of the ways that we believe is good is to simplify what you can. And so one way to do that is, well from an infrastructure perspective, you should have the ability to basically buy the infrastructure as an outcome, not have to build all the components and get it together. >> All the provisioning pain that goes with it. >> Yeah, and so when we were just EMC, we had one choice. We had what was called a Vblock, and then we build VxRacks and VxRails. >> Vblock was so successful, it really was, you did a good job of that. >> Yeah, a lot of customers from the SAP. Now that we're Dell though, we have the PowerEdge family, and we've been bringing that in to not only Racks and Rails, but looking at that in terms of building what we call Ready Bundles, where we can actually deliver as a single... >> Think about this ready solution, because the thing that got me at Dell EMC World was two things. The purpose built mission continued, I mean that in a good way. And two, the disruption of data backup protection and backup with the cloud. With the cloud as a new disruptor. For some reason backup and recoveries, clearly different in the cloud than it is on prem. So we've seen a lot of action in there too. Those are the two ready areas, and then also, dynamic changes going on with backup and recovery. >> Yeah, ready solutions was a huge thing, and this is part of the merger we rebranded our solutions organizations into one. Our whole, as the name implies, the whole goal is to deliver a ready infrastructure to the customer that they can just deploy, so they can focus on their applications and their business and not worry about the server, the network, the storage, which ones do I put together for what reason. We want to give them that menu of choice, whether it's a single node, a bundle of components, or an actual system, and deploy that in any way they want. >> What can we expect from Dell EMC, from your team VZB, with respect to SAP? Next couple months, next year, what's the plans, what's the continued momentum playbook? >> Some things that you'll be seeing more of if you go to the Dell blueprints page where we have all our solutions. You'll be seeing some new and refreshed offerings around HANA, you'll be seeing some new things around SAP landscapes, and you'll be seeing much more formal communication around the cloud offering I talked about. >> And cloud seems to be, again, cloud is taking it outside the four walls, which is different, great capabilities, people going in analytics, putting a lot of analytics in the cloud. So seeing that being the first wave beyond dev tests. Dev tests, even though Oracle says dev tests is really going to be around for a long, long time, people are already moving to analytics in the cloud. That's interesting for instrumenting for backup and recovery, what's possible. Quick thoughts on the changes there, in the landscape between the old way of thinking about backup and recovery, and by the way you guys have some of the best solutions out there that will data domain, scratch record goes to history, but now it goes to the cloud. What's the tricky parts that you guys are watching? >> Well I think on the one hand there'll be people that want to worry about their mission critical, like you said we have great integrated offerings to the workload, so you can have a backup team handle it or you can have your workload team handle it, it's really up to you. As people go into the cloud I think they have to decide, what's the tiering strategy they want to approach that, what's the retention data strategies that they need, how's that going to, >> Where the hell is the data going? >> Where's the data going, is it safe and secure, and how does that relate to how they're protecting their on premise data. I mean from our perspective, and back to the SAP example of where we have this uniform cloud approach, we have the backup capabilities built into that. Whether it's long term data retention, short term backup and recovery, yep. >> Question for you, this is a test, a real time cube test. I'm sure you'll pass with flying colors. What is the most, what are the biggest two waves that the customers should be surfing in the enterprise, top two most important waves? >> I think one of them we've already talked about, which is certainly cloud. I think if you look at the whole digital transformation, which I know is related to cloud, but the whole digital transformation wave I think is separate from that. So if you look at big data and analytics and machine data, every customer, whether it's a traditional RDBMS environment or what have you, they're all looking at how to harness that data. I think when you get into that and look at all the data in your data center that you may not be using today, you may not have been trying to take advantage of, with technologies like Splunk and other things that are out there to help you do that, that's a great thing to look at. We're seeing heavy.. >> So data basically, cloud and data are the two big waves. >> Yeah, digital transformation of data and taking advantage of that data. >> Well they go hand in hand, cuz you got the scale of the cloud for compute and other things, data drives the digital chest of digitalized data, digital assets are data, right, everything's data. So you would agree, cloud and data, two big waves. >> Yes. >> Jason, thanks so much for coming on the Cube special coverage and final comment, I'll give you the last word on SAP Sapphire, I know you got a relationship, you're probably going to be like oh yeah, SAP, everything's great. Be straight, what's going on with SAP. What's the outlook for SAP from your perspective. >> I think there's a great opportunity to your point, but there's also a good challenge, cuz we're going through a merger. I think we're making great progress to bring the two portfolios together, and SAP's being a great partner helping working with us. >> And you're cool with them now, you guys feel good about SAP. >> We feel great about them, we use them in our own environment at Dell as Michael talked about, to run our own business. So it's a great relationship >> Jeremy's been a remote telecast performer at EMC World. >> As you know, these partnerships in the industry go up and down, we talked a little bit about Oracle over the years, that's fluctuated. >> I was dating myself the other day on a Cube gig, and I said, oh it's a Barney deal, which my language was, you know, no real deal, cuz Barney was a character that kids watched, my kids watched, you know, I love you, you love me, it's kind of a love fest, but nothing happens. It's called a Barney deal. I need a new meme now because most of the people in the industry don't know who Barney is. >> Oh I remember, we used to joke about him when I was in alliances, we called them Barney meetings. You got a good meeting with a partner, you'd all talk and nothing would happen. >> You guys do not have a Barney deal with SAP, it's pretty deep across the board, SAP has good relationships, I got to say, they tend to do really, really good. They're either in or they're not, it's pretty obvious. Thank you Jason, so much. Jason Kotsaftis, who's the senior director of the database solutions group with Dell EMC joining us for a special three day coverage of Sapphire now from our studio. Great week, we had Informatica World in San Francisco, Google IO going on today as well, we've got live coverage today with Rob Hove, also VeeamOn is in New Orleans, Dave Vellante is there, and I'm in SAP Sapphire. A lot of coverage for events for the Cube, stay with us more for live coverage after this short break. (techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to theCUBE special coverage of Sapphire Now we're here in Palo Alto. Sapphire now SAPs premier conference in Orlando. We are in Palo Alto, we have folks on the ground in Orlando. Special three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Taking you through all the action from our new studio in Palo Alto, 4,500 square feet. Our chance to cover events when we can't get there in person we certainly can cover it from here. And that's what we're going to be doing for the next three days; we're going to have stories on the ground, no story is too small. We're going to chase 'em all down. We have people calling in, we have folks on the ground that'll be Skyping in, calling in, whatever it takes to get the story out to you, we're going to do it and, certainly, expert coverage from inside the studio here. We got George Gilbert from Wikibon and a variety of folks who did not make it to Orlando will be coming into Palo Alto to sit down and talk with us. I'm John Furrier, my co-host is Jeff Frick. Jeff, we'll do whatever it takes. We'll cover from our studio, we'll go to Orlando virtually we got the Twitter hashtag, Sapphirenow, we're on that. We have folks on the ground, a lot of great news coming out of Sapphire. >> What do ya think? I mean, you were just as Dell EMC World last week and the story was all about, kind of, hybrid cloud and customer choice and it sounds like that's a recurring theme here at SAP, where they've got a lot of cloud options based on what their customer wants to do. >> I mean, if you, I mean this sounds really bad to say for someone who follows the tech industry but I just think this digital transformation thing is just over-played. But it's the, it's the Groundhog's Day moment. The movie just keeps replaying itself. Digital transformation, digital transformation, and, again, just like every other commerce, like Dell EMC World and every other one, digitally transforming your business is the theme. Little bit played, I would say business transformation is, I would say, the next chapter of what's happening and what you see from these shows. Specifically, at Dell EMC World, US ServiceNow, OpenStack, all the different events, Red Hat's been the one we been going to this past couple weeks is the business impact of the technology and SAP highlights that with their results and their keynotes in the news letter drops today, which is, look it, they have been doing SAP for all the top companies powering with SAP. As in Oracle. But now the customers want to go beyond the legacy SAP. And this has been a challenge for SAP over the past five years. They've had all the right messaging, digital dashboards, real time for business, all there. But the problem was they were missing a big piece of it. That is a cloud native and really aligning with the explosive growth of cloud computing, cloud native. Which is the new application developer. This new class of developer is emerging and that's different than the in-house SAP guys, by the way, which is still a massive market. >> Sure. >> That's the big trend. And of course, machine learning, AI, the kinds of design tooling that you'd expect to see, they're calling that Leonardo. >> I think it really shows the power of the consumer and the impact that the big public clouds have had on the marketplace, right? With Google, and with Amazon, especially Microsoft, as well, coming into play. And I think it's, what's interesting on the SAP tact is they have their own cloud. But now they've, you know, are very aggressively following up on an earlier announcement at Google Cloud Platform Show. With more announcements at this show and then they continue to strengthen their relationship with Amazon. So, it's a pretty interesting place, if you're an SAP customer, really having options around where, what cloud and what cloud deployment is really no longer an argument. You've got a lot of options at SAP, very different than Oracle, which is still pretty much exclusively Oracle on the Oracle cloud. Very different kind of a tact. >> Yeah and just reading the hard news from from hitting the ground today down in Orlando is the key points, I'll just summarize it real quick. Expanded SAP Leonardo, Digital Innovation System, SAP Google Expand the Strategic Partnership, SAP Cloud Platform accelerates adoption and proves choice advances consumption for customers. That, essentially, is it. And there's a lot of other subtext going on on Enterprise Cloud, a lot of other massive pockets. But in terms of top-level news, it's Leonardo, okay? Leonardo Da Vinci, dead, creative genius. Okay? But that is all about providing the tools for business to be successful in a digital world. But to me, the big story, Jeff, is the transformation of what used to be called HANA Cloud Platform to SAP Cloud Platform. This is their platform as a service bet around winning the new developers, the cloud native. Last year at Sapphire, we actually had theCUBE on the ground they announced a deal with Apple computer around iOS and developers. That, now, has chip as a general availability so you're seeing SAP bringing two worlds together. The Cloud Native World, which they never played in much to the SAP Eco System, which is flush with cash. There's a ton of money to be made in that world. The install base is massive, now you have Cloud-Computing Hybrid Cloud with the HANA Cloud Platform, I mean the SAP Cloud Platform to bring that in. Again, I still can't even get it right. >> And so, let's just break it down as simply as you can, John. Why do they change the name? And what exactly do they have today? >> Well, here's the first of all problem. I'm so used to saying HANA because they have been branding HANA on >> They been bangin' HANA for the decade, or forever. >> It's just like, in my brain. I just can't get it out. SAP HANA, so anytime, and they actually called it HANA Cloud Platform before. >> Right, right. >> But HANA is such a massive set of capabilities that they really wanted to break out the platform as a service, which is the Cloud Native play, where all the action is for developers. From HANA, a viable product that they have that everyone's using. So, they have two clouds that we can say. SAP Cloud Platform, that's in Cloud Native, and then, HANA Enterprise Cloud. One's a delivery mechanism and one's a developer environment; it's the way I like to think about it. I'm a HANA customer, I'm going to need Enterprise Cloud to take my HANA solution and extend it up with self-service or provisioning, some partnership with AWS Google and the different clouds, getting my legacy HANA Enterprise software to be cloud enabled. That's HANA Enterprise Cloud. SAP Cloud Platforms for folks who don't, who like DevOps, the Cloud Native world that we cover deeply. >> Okay, and then, how do you look at the kind of Google partnership, Google Cloud Platform versus AWS partnership. SAP's goin' dual-track, is it just simply to have choice based on what their customers, are they fundamentally different relationships? How do you read that? >> This is where I think SAP's got genius going on. But if they might screw it up because they can't get out of their own way. >> Jeff: Can't use genius anymore, we've had enough geniuses. >> So, so, this could be a brilliant strike of move for SAP. I think it's a brilliant move in the way they're playing it out. But, again, like I said, SAP, they might not be able to get out of their own way. That's going to be their issue. But from a functionality standpoint, this multi-cloud opportunity; they've been with Amazon for many many years. They announced a partnership with Google which is just kind of toe in the water. That's tryin' to advance pretty quickly. Not a lot of meat on the bone there. And Azure relationships. So, SAP wants to put their cloud platform, that platform as a service, in all the different major clouds so that their legacy can work on pram and in whichever cloud the customer chooses. >> Yeah, I think there is, >> I think, that is a multi-cloud strategy that is viable for SAP. Unlike, say, Oracle, which isn't multi-cloud, it's Oracle Cloud. >> Right, right, right. >> So, you know the SAP Oracle, you know, head-to-head thing has been kind of, like, taking completely different paths. Someone will be right. >> Right. But I think there's more meat on the bone with the Google thing than, maybe, maybe we know of, or are aware of, or whatever. I mean, Burnt did come and get in the keynote with Diane Greene at Google Cloud Platform. And, you know, I think it's relatively significant. What'll be interesting to see how it shapes out and, again, what are the customer choices that are going to drive them to Amazon or to SB Cloud or to the Google cloud. I guess at the end of the day it's about choice and I know that was a big theme at Dell EMC World. Is that everyone has to cater to the choice of the customer or else it's just too easy for them to flip a lot of these other clouds. >> I mean, when I say, "not ready for primetime," I mean, Google's got a lot of work to do. SAP as a company is not as far down the road with Google as they are with Amazon and Azure, just to make my point clear. >> Okay. >> But the do have our announcing additional certifications of the coinnovation between SAP and Google. Between SAP Cloud Platform and Google Cloud Platform. IOT, machine learning, they certified SAP NetWeaver in a variety of S4 HANA, business warehousing; essentially more market place to accelerate the digital transformation. And, again, this is all about SAP co-locating in Google. >> Right, right. >> If a customer wants to take advantage of TensorFlow and all the goodness of, say, Google. That's a good move for SAP and, again, I think this is a brilliant strategy for SAP if they don't screw it up. >> Right, right. And potentially, that's the bridge to, like you said, it's been a little bit of Groundhog Day with cloud, cloud, cloud. But what's really the theme of 2017 is AI machine learning and it's an interesting bridge with Google Cloud, to their TensorFlow as another way to bring AI machine learning into the application learning into the application. >> So, Jeff, we've been covering a lot of events. One comment, I will say, is that SAP always has great messaging. >> I got to say, because we've been covering out eighth year covering Sapphire Now. We've only missed, like, two years over that time span. It's a lot like Oracle on the sense that it's a very business oriented event, but they have good pulse. Bill McDermott, great communicator, great customer-focused person. Always has his hand on the pulse. They have great messaging. And they tend to pick the right waves. And they've had some false starts with cloud, they've bought, had some acquisitions, things been cobbled together, but they've never wavered from their mission. And the mission has always been powering the speed of business, great software solutions. The issue is, they're moving off of SAP to new cloud solutions, so SAP is taking a proactive strike to say, look here, we can play in the cloud, therefore this multi-cloud game is critical for the growth of SAP, in my opinion. >> How much of the SAP in cloud will be new greenfield opportunities, or people want the flexibility, and a lot of the attributes of cloud versus, they're not migrating old R3 instances into the cloud. I mean, this is, I would assume, mainly new greenfield opportunities. >> Well, I think it's both. I mean, I think you have greenfield developers basically that are being hired by their customers to build apps, top line driven apps, and also, you know, some consolidation apps. But mainly, you know, their customers are hiring developers. Hey, we need a mobile app for our business, so you need to have data, you need to have some domain expertise. But at the end of the day, the system of records probably stored in some SAP system somewhere. So what they're trying to do is decouple the dependency between that developer, but still use SAP, but and offer an extension of SAP. It really is an opportunity, in my mind, for that to happen, and also partners. Look at Accenture, Capgemini, all these different partners. They are poised to create some great value and make some cash along the way. Remember the minicomputer boom. People who lined their pockets with cash were the integrators. The large global system integrators. So I think that, and the channel partners are going to have a great opportunity to take advantage of preexisting legacy accounts and to grow them further. >> Well, they certainly have a giant ecosystem. There's no doubt about it. It's one of the startup challenges that, new company starters to build that ecosystem. I mean, they have a giant ecosystem. So, what are you looking for this week besides the obvious announcement? And kind of tells that you want to see to let you know that SAP continues to be on track and move with the shifting tides of the market trends? >> Well do me, I'm looking at the multi-cloud story. It's a good story. Not sure how baked it is, but from a story standpoint, I really like it. I think that whoever can really crack the code on multi-cloud in a viable way is going to be a winner. So to me, I'm going to be looking heavily at the multi-cloud stuff coming out of Orlando. I'm interested to see how the developer traction pans out. I'm really interested in following up on the Apple relationship and see how that pans out. And then ultimately, how the rest of SAP can transform as a business. Because SAP tends to have a lot of buzzwords, a lot of word salad, not a lot of, you know, breaking it down and orchestrating. So to me, SAP, where I'm critical of them is, they kind of can't get out of their own way, Jeff. So, sometimes they kind of get caught in that old world thinking when the world is moving very very fast. Look at Amazon Web Services, you look at what Google's doing, you look at where Vmware is changing. Vmware started Pat Gelsinger. He was in the dumps in 2016, now he's flying high. He went from almost being fired, stock had a 52 week low, to them soaring. They have a market cap that's greater than HPE. So these old incumbent like SAP, they have to transform their culture, get relevant, and get real. And if they can't show the proof points with customer wins and partners, and multi-cloud, then they're going to be on shaky ground. So that's what I'm looking for. >> Jeff: All right, so should be a good week. I'm looking forward to it. >> Okay, we are here in the Palo Alto studio, our new 4,500 square foot operation. We can do coverage here, and then have on the ground coverage of which we will be doing all week Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday for our SAP Sapphire Now. We've got great guests coming in, great editorial coverage. I want to thank our sponsors, SAP, for, you know, allowing us to do this and continuing theCUBE tradition at Sapphire Now. I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. More coming after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from Munich, Germany, it's The CUBE, covering DataWorks Summit Europe 2017. Brought to you by Heartenworks. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we are here live in Munich, Germany For DataWorks 2017, the DataWorks Summit, formally Hadoop Summit. I'm John Furrier with Silicone Angle's theCUBE, my co-host Dave Vellante, wrapping up day two of coverage here with Christoph Schubert, who's the Senior Director of SAP Big Data, handles all the go-to-market for SAP Big Data, @sapbigdata is the Twitter handle. You have a great shirt there, Go Live >> Go Live or go home. (Laughs) >> John: You guys are a part. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Christoph: Thank you, I appreciate it. >> Thanks for joining us and on the wrap up. You and I have known each other, we've known each other for a long time. We've been in many Sapphires together, we've had many conversations around the role of data, the role of architecture, the role of how organizations are transforming at the speed of business, which is SAP, it's a lot of software that powers business, under transformation right now. You guys are no stranger to analytics, we have the HANA Cloud Platform now. >> Christoph: We know a thing or two about that, yeah. (laughs) >> You know a little bit about data and legacy as well. You guys power pretty much most of the Fortune 100, if not all of them. What's your thoughts on this? >> Yeah, good point. On the topic of some numbers, about 75% of the world GDP runs through SAP systems eventually. So yes, we know a thing or two about transactional and analytical systems, definitely. >> John: And you're a partner with Hortonworks >> With Hortonworks and other Cloud providers, Hadoop Providers, certainly, absolutely but in this case, Hortonworks. We have, specifically, a solution that runs on Hadoop Spark and that allows, actually, our customers to unify much, much larger data sets with a system of records that we now do so many of them around the world for new and exciting new cases. >> And you were born in Munich. This is your hometown. >> This is actually a home gig for me, exactly. So, yes, unfortunately I'll also be presenting in English but yeah, I want to talk German, Bavarian, all the time. (laughs) >> I see my parents tonight. >> I wish we could help you >> but we don't speak Bavarian. But we do like to drink the beer though. It's the fifth season but a lot of great stuff here in Germany. Dave, you guys, I want to get your thoughts on something. I wanted to get you, just 'cause you're both, you're like an analyst, Christoph as well. I know you're over at SAP but, you know, you have such great industry expertise and Dave obviously covers the stuff everyday. I just think that the data world is so undervalued, in my mind. I think the ecosystem of startups that are coming out in the, out of the open source ecosystems, which are well-defined, by the way, and getting better. But now you have startups doing things like VIMTEC, we just had a bank on. Startups creating value and things like block chain on the horizon. Other new paradigms are coming on, is going to change the landscape of how wealth is created and value is created and charged. So, you've got a whole new tsunami of change. What's your thoughts on how this expands and obviously, certainly, Hortonworks as a public company and Cloudera is going public, so you expect to see that level up in valuation. >> They're in the process, yes. >> But I still think they're both undervalued. Your thoughts. >> Well it's not just the platform, right? and that what, I think, where Hadoop also came from. The legacy of Hadoop is that you don't have to really think about how you want to use your data. You have to, don't think ahead what kind of schema you want to apply and how you want to correlate your data. You can create a large data lake, right? That's the term that was created a long time ago, that allows customers to just collect all that data and think in the second stage about what to use with it and how to correlate it. And that's exactly, now, we're also seeing in the third stage, to not just create analytics but also creating applications instead of analytics or on top of analytics, correlating with data that also drives the business, the core business, from an OLTP perspective or also from an OLAP perspective. >> I mean, Dave, you were the one who said Amazon's a trillion dollar TAM, will be the first trillion dollar company and you were kind of, but you looked at the thousand points of Live with Cloud enables, all these aggregated all together, what's your thoughts on valuation of this industry? Because if Hortonworks continues on this peer play and they've got Cloudera coming in and they're doing well, you could argue that they're both undervalued companies if you count the ecosystem. >> Well, we always knew that big data was going to be a heavy lift, right? And I would agree with what Christoph was saying, was that Hadoop is profound in that it was no schema on right and ship five magabytes of code to a pedabyte of data. But it was hard to get that right. And I remember something you said, John, at one of our early SAP Sapphires, When the big data meme was just coming through. You said, "You know, SAP is not just big data, it's fast data". And you were talking about bringing transaction and analytic data together. >> John: Right. >> Again, something that has only recently been enabled. And you think about, you know, continuous streaming. I think that, now, big data has sort of entered the young-adulthood phase, we're going to start seeing steep part of that S-curve returns, and I think the hype will be realized. I think it is undervalued, much like the internet was. It was overvalued, then nobody wanted to touch it, and then it became. Actually, if you think back to 1999, the internet was undervalued in terms of what it actually achieved. >> John: Yeah. >> I think the same or similar thing is going to happen with big data. And since we have an SAP guest on, I'll say as well, We all remember the early days of ERP. >> Mhm, oh yeah. >> It wasn't clear >> Nope. >> Who was going to emerge as the king. >> Right. >> There were a few solutions. You're right. >> That's right. And, as well, something else we said about big data, it was the practitioners of ERP that made the most money, that created the most value and the same thing is happening here. >> Yeah. In fact, on that topic, I believe that 2017 and 2018 will be the big years for big data, so to speak. >> John: Uh huh. >> In fact, because of some statistics. >> John: In what way? >> Well, we just did >> Adoption, S-curve? >> Right, exactly. Utilizing the value of big data. You're talking about valuation here, right? 75% of CEOs of the top 1000 believe that the next three years are more important to their business than the last 50. And so that tells me that they're willing to invest. Not just the financial market, where I believe really run the most sophisticated big data analytics and models today. They had real use cases with real results very quickly. And so, they showed many how it's done. They created sort of the new role of a data scientist. They have roles like an AML officer. It's a real job, they do nothing else but anti-money laundering, right? So, in that industry they've shown us how to do that and I think others will follow. >> Yeah, and I think that when you look at this whole thing about digital transformation, it's all about data. >> John: Yeah. >> I mean, if you're serious about digital transformation, you must become a data-driven company and you have to hop on that curb. Even if you're talking to the, you know, bank today who got on in 2014, which was relatively late, but the pace at which they're advancing is astronomical. >> John: Yeah. >> I don't remember his name, a British mathematician, created, about 11 years already, that according to the phrase "Data is the new oil". >> John: Mhm. >> And I think it's very true because crude oil, in its original form, you also can't use it. >> John: It has to be refined. >> Right, exactly. It has to be refined to actually use it and use the value of it. Same thing with data. You have to distill it, you have to correlate it, you have to align it, you have to relate it to business transactions so the business really can take advantage of it. >> And then we're seeing, you know, to your point, you've got, I don't know, a list of big data companies that are now in public is growing. It's still small, not much profit. >> I mean, I just think, and this is while I'm getting your reaction, I mean, I'm just reading right now some news popping on my dashboard. Google just released some benchmarks on the TPU, the transistor processing unit, >> Dave: Right. >> Basically a chip dedicated to machine learning. >> Yep. >> You know, so, you're going to start to see some abstraction layers develop, whether it's a hardened-top processor hardware, you guys have certainly done innovation on the analytic side, we've seen that with some of the specialty apps. Just to make things go faster. I mean, so, more and more action is coming, so I would agree that this S-curve is coming. But the game might shift. I mean, this is not an easy, clear path. There's bets being made in big data and there's potential for huge money shift, of value. >> See, one of the things I see, and we talked to Hortonworks about this, the new president, you know, betting all on open source. I happen to think a hybrid model is going to win. I think the rich get richer here. SAP, IBM, even Oracle, you know, they can play the open source game and say, "Hey, we're going to contribute to open source, we're going to participate, we're going to utilize open source, but we're also going to put the imprimatur of our install base, our business model, our trusted brands behind so-called big data." We don't really use that term as much anymore. It's the confluence of not only the technology but the companies who, what'd you say, 75% of the world's transactions run though SAP at some point? >> Christoph: Yeah. >> With companies like SAP behind it, and others, that's when this thing, I think, really takes off. >> What I think a lot of people don't realize, and I've been a customer, also, for a long time before I joined the vendor side, and what is under-realized is the aspect of risk management. Once you have a system and once you have business processes digitized and they run your business, you can't introduce radical changes overnight as quickly anymore as you'd like or your business would like. So, risk management is really very important to companies. That's why you see innovation within organizations not necessarily come from the core digitization organization within their enterprise, it often happens on the outside, within different business units that are closer to the product or to the customer or something. >> Something else that's happening, too, that I wanted to address is this notion of digitization, which is all about data, allows companies to jump industries. You're seeing it everywhere, you're seeing Amazon getting into content, Apple getting into financial services. You know, there's this premise out there that Uber isn't about taxicabs, it's about logistics. >> John: Yeah. >> And so you're seeing these born-digital, born in the cloud companies now being able to have massive impacts across different industries. Huge disruption creates, you know, great opportunities, in my view. >> Christoph: Yeah. >> David: What do you think? >> I mean, I just think that the disruption is going to be brutal, and I want to, I'm trying to synthesize what's happening in this show, and you know, you're going to squint through all the announcements and the products, really an upgrade to 2.6, a new data platform. But here in Europe the IOT thing just, to me, is a catalyst point because it's really a proof point to where the value is today. >> David: Mhm. >> That people can actually look at and say, "This is going to have an impact on our business tier digitization point" and I think IOT is pulling the big data industry and cloud together. And I think machine learning and things that come over the top on it are only going to make it go faster. And so that intersection point, where the AI, augmented intelligence, is going to come in, I think that's where you're going to start to see real proof points on value proposition of data. I mean, right now it's all kind of an inner circle game. "Oh yeah, got to get the insights, optimize this process here and there" and so there's some low hanging fruit, but the big shifting, mind blowing, CEO changing strategies will come from some bigger moves. >> To that point, actually, two things I want to mention that SAP does in that space, specifically, right? Startups, we have a program actually, SAP.io, that Bill McDermont also recently introduced again, where we invest in startups in this space to help foster innovation faster, right? And also connecting that with our customers. >> John: What is it called? >> SAP.io Something to look out for. And on the topic of IOT, we made, also, an announcement at the beginning of the year, Project Leonardo. >> Yeah. >> It's a commitment, it's a solution set, and it's also an investment strategy, right? We're committed in this market to invest, to create solutions, we have solutions already in the cloud and also in primus. There are a few companies we also purchased in conjunction with Loeonardo, RT specifically. Some of our customers in the manufacturing space, very strong opportunity for IOT, sensor collection, creating SLAs for robotics on the manufacturing floor. For example, we have a complete solution set to make that possible and realize that for our customers and that's exactly a perfect example where these sensor applications in IOT, edge, compute rich environments come together also with a core where, then, a system of references like machine points, for example, matter because if you manage the SLA for a machine, for example, you just not only monitor it, you want to also automatically trigger the replacement of a part, for example, and that's why you need an SAP component, as well. So, in that space, we're heavily investing, as well. >> The other think I want to say about IOT is, I see it, I mean, cloud and big data have totally disrupted the IT business. You've seen Dell buying EMC, HP had to get out of the cloud business, Oracle pivoted to the cloud, SAP obviously, going hard after the cloud. Very, very disruptive, those two trends. I see IOT as not necessarily disruptive. I see those who have the install base as adopting IOT and doing very, very well. I think it's maybe disruptive to the economy at large, but I think existing companies like GE, like Siemens, like Dimar, are going to do very, very well as a result of IOT. I mean, to the extent they embrace digitization, which they would be crazy not to. >> Alright guys, final thoughts. What's your walkaway from this show? Dave, we'll start with you. >> I was going to say, you know, Hadoop has definitely not failed, in my mind, I think it's been wildly successful. It is entering this new phase that I call sort of young-adulthood and I think it's, we know it's gone mainstream into the enterprise, now it's about, okay, how do I really drive the value of data, as we've been discussing, and hit that steep part of the S-curve. Which, I agree, it's going to be within the next two years, you're going to start to see massive returns. And I think this industry is going to be realized, looked back, it was undervalued in 2017. >> Remember how long it took to align on TCP/IP? (laughter) >> Walk away, I mean interoperability was key with TCP/IP. >> Christoph: Yeah. One of the things that made things happen. >> I remember talking about it. (laughter) >> Yeah, two megabits per second. Yeah, but I mean, bringing back that, what's your walkaway? Because is it a unification opportunity? Is it more of an ecosystem? >> A good friend of mine, also at SAP on the West Coast, Andreas Walter, he shared an observation that he saw in another presentation years ago. It was suits versus hoodies. Different kind of way to run your IT shop, right? Top-down structure, waterfall projects, and suits, open source, hack it, quickly done, you know, get in, walk away, make money. >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, the suits were the waterfall, hoodies was the agile. >> Christoph: That's correct. >> Alright, alright, okay. >> Christoph: Correct. So, I think that it's not just the technology that's coming together, it's mindsets that are coming together. And I think organizationally for companies, that's the bigger challenge, actually. Because one is very subscribed, change control oriented, risk management aware. The other is very progressive, innovative, fast adopters. That these two can't bring those together, I think that's the real challenge in organizations. >> John: Mhm, yeah. >> Not the technology. And on that topic, we have a lot of very intelligent questions, very good conversations, deep conversations here with the audience at this event here in Munich. >> Dave, my walkaway was interesting because I had some preconceived notions coming in. Obviously, we were prepared to talk about, and because we saw the S1 File by Cloudera, you're starting to see the level of transparency relative to the business model. One's worth one billion dollars in private value, and then Hortonworks pushing only 2700 million in a public market, which I would agree with you is undervalued, vis a vis what's going on. So obviously, you're going to see my observation coming in from here is that I think that's going to be a haircut for Cloudera. The question is how much value will be chopped down off Cloudera, versus how much value of Hortonworks will go up. So the question is, does Cloudera plummit, or does Cloudera get a little bit of a haircut or stay and Hortonworks rises? Either way, the equilibrium in the industry will be established. The other option would be >> Dave: I think the former and the numbers are ugly, let's not sugarcoat it. And so that's got to change in order for this prediction that we're making. >> John: Former being the haircut? >> Yeah, the haircut's going to happen, I think. But the numbers are really ugly. >> But I think the question is how far does it drop and how much of that is venture. >> Sure. >> Venture, arbitrage, or just how they are capitalized but Hortonworks could roll up. >> But my point is that those numbers have to change and get better in order for our prediction to come true. Okay, so, but in your second talk, sorry to interrupt you but >> No, I like a debate and I want to know where that line is. We'll be watching. >> Dave: Yeah. >> But the value in, I think you guys are pointing out but I walk away, is IOT is bigger here, and I already said that, but I think the S-curve is, you're right on. I think you're going to start to see real, fast product development around incorporating data, whether that's a Hortonworks model, which seems to be the nice unifying, partner-oriented one, that's going to start seeing specialized hardware that people are going to start building chips for using flash or other things, and optimizing hard complexities. You pointed that out on the intro yesterday. And putting real product value on the table. I think the cards are going to start hitting the table in ecosystem, and what I'm seeing is that happening now. So, I think just an overall healthy ecosystem. >> Without a doubt. >> Okay. >> Great. >> Any final comments? >> Let's have a beer. >> Great to see you in Munich. (laughter) >> We'll have a beer, we had a pig knuckle last night, Dave. We had some sauerkraut. >> Christoph: (speaks foreign word) >> Yeah, we had the (speaks foreign word). Dave, we'll grab the beer, thanks. Good to be with you again. Thanks to the crew, thanks to everyone watching. >> Thanks, John. >> The CUBE, signing off from Munich, Germany for DataWorks 2017. Thanks for watching, see ya next time. (soft techno music)

>> Man: Hold on, let me check. (musical fanfare) >> Narrator: Live from Silicon Valley, it's the Cube, covering Google Cloud Next '17. (busy electronic music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We're live in Palo Alto Studios, looking at media as the Cube, our new 4500 square foot studio where we can do broadcasts here, and of course we're covering a two day special, coverage wall-to-wall with Google Next 2017 in San Francisco. We just had the exclusive video with Sam Yen from SAP talking about the new relationship between Google Cloud Platform and SAP, SAP HANA, and also SAP Cloud platform. On the phone right now with reaction to the news in San Francisco is Akash Agarwal, GVP with SAP, Cube alumni, good friend. Akash, welcome to the Cube coverage and thanks for taking the time. >> Akash: Thanks John, we are proud to helping out. >> Akash, you've been intimately involved in a variety of very cool things with SAP. One of them has been the Apple announcement where you guys have a strategic relationship with Apple Computer, and at Mobile World Congress you've released the general availability of the developer kit, SDK, now shipping. On the heels of that amazing news, you now have a deal with Google Cloud. You also have a deal with Amazon Web Services, to be clear, but this a pretty comprehensive strategic deal. All the heavy hitters flying in from Germany. We had talked to Sam, we're talking to you. What is the reaction in Moscone in San Francisco around the SAP Google relationship news? >> Akash: I think, so the reaction is very positive and I think what this sort of shows everybody here that our friends at Google are very serious about the enterprise, and as such, they have extended a very warm hand in partnering with SAP and bringing what I call transactional and enterprise workloads onto Google Cloud, and I think that's a very significant change from what Google Cloud was doing in the past, they are supporting all kinds of workloads, but they're now really focusing on helping enterprises kind of transition into the cloud. I think SAP can act as a massive catalyst for that effort. >> It also brings a huge amount of credibility to the Google Cloud Platform, certainly in the enterprise. SAP has been a leader, powering some of the biggest business in the world with your software system of records, certainly the database is evolving. You've had cloud, you've had HANA, data analytics for many years, I can almost, I think seven years I've been to Sapphire, Bill McDermott, and back then Schnabel, was talking about analytics. This really hits home, because Google has a great mind share with the developer community, they actually have great empathy, they understand developers and open source, certainly they understand cutting edge technology. But now with SAP, this seems to be a nice lucky strike and a lightning strike, if you will, for developers to monetize with SAP, because you guys have real big paying enterprise customers that could use some cloud native. Is that how you see it? Help us understand the impact to developers and then the impact to customers. >> Akash: Yeah, I think the opportunity is multifold, as I would explain it. Customers, our customers and Google customers can take SAP workloads onto Google Cloud, and that is in the form of taking HANA and running any applications that run on top of HANA onto Google Cloud. I think that's kind of one piece of the announcement that we've made today. The second piece, and I think that's what you're alluding to is around developers, and those developers could be our developers, SAP's 2.5 million developers, it could be a multitude of developers that are attracted to Google and all the services that Google provides. But what they can do now is to leverage SAP's HANA Express product which is a developer centric product, and then run that on Google Cloud Platform, and build applications that could leverage HANA technology and build next generation of applications, either applications that are net new that can take data from any data source, or applications that want to extract data from SAP. The final thing that we also now as part of our HANA cloud platform or SAP Cloud platform is the ability to take the cloud foundry components of our SAP Cloud Platform and make them available on Google Cloud Platform and that. That, as you can see, is a very rich environment. We've extended Google's palette of services to include our SAP Platform as a service components to help fast track developers who want to build enterprise class applications that want to interchange data that's already in SAP systems or want to store stuff in our HANA database that is now going to be able to run on Google Cloud Platform. I think that's what has been announced here. It's quite a lot and I think over the coming months, developers will be able to get access to that, and if they can get access to it, on the Google Cloud Launcher platform later today they should be able to get a copy of the SAP HANA Express product. >> What is the impact to SAP? Because we spoke recently at the Amazon Web Services reinvent, Akash, obviously, you have a relationship with them as well. But this really kind of gives SAP a new set of capabilities for developers that aren't familiar with SAP. You have, certainly, a huge ecosystem of developers that are SAP centric, now a new community's developing for SAP, how do you see that unfolding for SAP and what are you guys doing specifically to onboard those developers and really give them the seamless tooling that they need so that they don't have to worry about all the engineering and the back office, database. What goodness are you bringing to those developers to make their life? >> Well, and I think first and foremost we've expanded the market, we are giving them access to great public cloud platforms in Amazon AWS, in Microsoft's Azure, and now with Google Cloud Platform. Now, a developer that wants to develop using SAP Cloud platform and SAP HANA has a choice, and they can now, depending on the expertise they have, depending on what they want to do, they can very easily leverage any of those three major cloud platforms. We're giving them choice and I think the world wants choice. We're making it easy, so that's number one. Number two, our SAP Cloud platform enablement teams are there to help cross track people. We're making it easy for developers to start working on products that are easy for developers such as the HANA Express, and they can, 32 GB worth of data that they use is free to use, and then they can go to SAP store and get a license key, and then enable that license key on any of the other public cloud providers as they expand and extend their systems. As you can see, I think we're giving them choice, we're giving them a lot of capability in terms of enablement, and then we're giving them a product which they can get started with with no friction. >> I want to ask you a question, Akash, because I know you have a lot of industry's view of the landscape. I was clarifying this morning in a blog post and also here on the Cube that you really can't compare Google Cloud to Amazon, they're two different worlds. You have apples and oranges, if you will. Why, help people understand real quickly, why, what is the Google Cloud all about? Because we really want to separate that conversation, they're not really apples to apples, it still is cloud, but there are differences. What is the key take away for users and customers about Google Cloud and what's the differentiation for them vis a vis other approaches? >> Well, that's not something that, I'm not the world expert on Google Cloud Platform, and I think that's something our friends at Google can kind of give you a very good rundown on. But, obviously, Google prides itself at, instead of services that are very data centric, they have, obviously, decades of experience in running their own services, and they're opening up some of those capabilities and making them available to their customers. We felt that we need to kind of double down on Google Cloud Platform and support that just like we're supporting the AWS platform and Azure. We believe that these are three major cloud platforms, each of them have their own uniqueness and capabilities, that these companies market and promote. I think it's best that you get someone from Google to comment on some of the differences, because I think there are quite a few, and I would be remiss at highlighting those. >> That's fair, appreciate that, and we'll try to have someone on in 5:00, we'll hopefully get someone slotted in. Final question for you, Akash. What's in it for the developers? To share your perspective on what you're excited about, that developers that don't know SAP should be excited about. What's the real opportunity for them in relevant? >> I think today a Google Cloud Platform developer has suddenly a window into the SAP world. The SAP world is big, it's very rich in usage, and those customers are large, they're interesting customers doing very complex things. I think it opens them up to grabbing the digital transformation ways that's hitting a lot of customers. I think what this can do to those developers is give them a window into a world that they perhaps didn't have before, because today, with SAP technology becoming available on Google Cloud Platform, they could suddenly target enterprise use cases that perhaps they were not doing before. These are transactional use cases. Obviously, both transactional and analytical type use cases, what we call OLAP use cases suddenly become important. I think the IoT opportunities are very interesting for developers. The industrial Internet is in full swing. Just coming back from Mobile World Congress, I think that was the theme, everything is connected. We can get you access to the customer record, we can get you access to the product, the SKU, that's all in SAP systems, and suddenly, the developer can access those systems to build next generation engagement applications as part of a digital transformation that the company may be doing. >> Yeah, I think Google could lean on you guys a little bit too, for partnering with the IoT certainly. Not a lot mentioned, maybe we'll hear more tomorrow, but I do think that, if I'm a developer, I would look at you guys as a innovation ground for using AI and using that data analytics making it very intelligent. You have the store of the data, you have the database. Congratulations to Akash, really appreciate you taking the time, on the ground in San Francisco. Akash Agarwal, GVP at SAP, friend of the Cube, a regular contributor here on our new studio programs. Thanks so much for taking the time and giving us a reaction and breaking down the news for us on the SAP Google relationship. >> Akash: Thanks, John. >> OK, more live coverage of Google Next coming right up. Be right back. (busy electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Silicon Valley. It's theCUBE. Covering Mobile World Congress 2017. Brought to you by Intel. >> Okay welcome back everyone, we are live here in Palo Alto for special two days of wall-to-wall coverage for Mobile World Congress. Here in our new 45 hundred square foot studio in Palo Alto. We have folks on the ground. Analysts, we have reporters in Barcelona, but we're going to be covering all the action here in our studio, where we're going to bring folks from Silicon Valley who did not make the trek to Barcelona here to weigh in with reaction and commentary and opinions and analysis of all the happenings of Mobile World Congress. But first, as the day winds down Monday in Europe, we wanted to make sure we get on the phone and get with folks who are on the ground. And right now on the phone we have Floyd Strimling who's the global vice president of HANA Cloud, I'm sorry, the HANA Cloud Platform which the big news was, they renamed their product from SAP HANA Cloud Platform to SAP Cloud Platform. Floyd Strimling, thanks for taking the time after your dinner. Thanks for coming on. >> Floyd: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm glad to be there. Happy to help out and give you some insights on what's going on here in beautiful Barcelona. It's actually quite warm here. >> Is it warm? I saw some umbrellas over the weekend but great city, I would love to have been there, but I wanted to anchor the coverage here. One of my favorite cities. But first, tell me what's going on. Obviously over the weekend we were preparing, we were covering all the content for the folks watching, CUBE365.net/MWC17. The news is all there. Every single piece of signal is there. Go to our site. Check it out. Floyd, what's happening? It's been a hand-set show all weekend. Obviously Nokia making a comeback. Blackberry making a comeback. LG, Huawei, Hess Phones, they all want to be Apple, but yet 5G is also dominating as well. So there's a culture clash. What's happening in Barcelona? What's your analysis? >> Floyd: The biggest thing that I was surprised by is exactly what you're talking about. The number of headset announcements and the number of displays that are all based upon new devices and the nostalgia for Blackberry and Nokia continues. People are rooting for them to make a comeback. In the meantime, you've got new devices from Huawei. You've got Samsung doing announcements. You know you're in the show when Sony has a big presence in Europe with their handsets, which I don't see too much in North America and it just seems to be everybody is gunning really for maybe what they foresee as the perceived weakness in Apple just not going for the killer 7 and waiting for the 8 to change the game. And they're all going to try to knock them off the pedestal. There's some very interesting phones that are out there. 5G is definitely everywhere, too. Everyone's talking about it. Everyone's trying to be the first. Trying to show, especially the streaming capabilities. What that'll be able to do and what it'll be able to change. And then, you know what? One of my favorite sections was the drones. We got to see some commercial carbon fiber drones that I never saw up and personal. See what's going on in there. A lot of interesting things going on with those things and more than just delivery, right? Everything that you could possibly do. There's no shortage of IoT and connected this, connected that, but they're adding a flavor of AI now. And I think we still got to get to Step 1 with IoT before we go to Step 2. So, it's been interesting to watch people try to leapfrog each other as they move towards new technologies. [Interviewer] How big is the crowd there? How packed is it? I mean one of the things we were talking about was the identity crisis of the show, Mobile World Congress, you mentioned people going after Apple. But also Samsung. Remember, they're bailing out of the show. They had their own little presser conference last night, they're not active in the show and they have their own problems. I mean the Galaxy 7 blowing up is, everyone's going after Samsung and Apple on the phone side, but you've got Sony, you've got 4K screens, you've got Netflix there, you've got entertainment, it's like a CES wannabe show for those guys, and at the same time it's a serious meat-and-potatoes Telco show with a lot of 5G, IoT, and I haven't heard anything about E-Sports. I saw a little bit with Twitch doing some stuff there, but for the most part, it's a digital show. So is there a huge crowd there and what's the demographics like there for the makeup of the attendees? >> Floyd: You know, I'm seeing big crowds, judging from how long it takes to take a taxi or get the subway. It's a lot of people there. And I'm seeing it's mixed. I'm actually seeing quite a few large enterprises from around the world. They're looking around, just looking at different technology and trying to make sense of what's happening. I do see the big Telcos are here. You know, everything from Telefonica, you of course have Huawei, you have T-Mobile, and Orange and a bunch of those major vendors that are doing it. I'm also seeing HPE and Intel on the same show area that we are on the other side that are generating traffic. I think the mix is pretty good this year and I will tell you, look, I've been to a lot of shows and some shows have trouble drawing people and this medium, some people are saying is not going to survive. I love going to the show and actually feeling the energy. 'Cause there is a ton of people here, there are a ton of large exhibitions with some really interesting stuff. VR, some geek talk, some funny stuff. There's people selling cases, you know, for your phone. I thought that was kind of awesome to see that again. I mean it's all over the place. I think the show is extremely healthy and it's as busy as ever. [Interviewer] One of the things about Mobile World Congress, it's a lot of business development, too. There's some heavy hitters there. It's kind of like Sun Valley meets, you know, the CES show. It really is a mix there. I want to get your take on some of the emerging areas that are really exploding in the mind of the consumer. And these are forward-thinking categorical areas. Autonomous vehicles, Smart Cities, Smart Home and, just in general, this new IoT area. So, what's your take on those areas? I mean, autonomous vehicles, they're huge. But Smart Cities, Smart Home, entertainment, is there a lot of buzz there? You guys have a stadium exhibit. What's the sexy demos? What's the sexy areas? >> Floyd: Yeah, I'll tell you a couple of things on this. You know, on the autonomous vehicles, now it's not just autonomous vehicles, it's going to try to be the first 5K autonomous vehicles. You know, people are looking at just pushing the envelope on it. And I think in Europe where people definitely love to drive, it's big, but I don't know if it's got the same excitement as you do in the traffic-jammed areas of the United States where we're constantly battling this and to put the car into autonomous mode and be able to do something else while stuck on the 405 would be a nice thing to do. I do think that the Smart homes is extremely interesting right now. I mean you have some of the people getting their arms around and I'm starting to see people actually talking about it and you know, a lot of people talking about smart things. This ability through a single gateway to be able to connect to all different types of devices, to be able to hook in with Alexa and Google Home and to be able to actually do more things with it and trying to make it simpler. So that I can do this reliably and easily. That's what everyone wants right now. On the Smart Cities front, I'm seeing a lot of people talk about Smart Cities. I think we're still kind of in that experimentation phase. You know a lot of geo-sensing stories I'm seeing. Some power conservations for lights. The ones that I'm interested in are kind of like traffic management. I'm extremely interested in this. Where we finally can get even smarter traffic lights and systems where you can do things like turn on no left turn or make a lane that's all four lanes. You know, make it one direction if traffic comes up. Very interesting concepts that people are trying out. You know for SAP, the biggest thing that we've got going, it continues to be our Smart Stadium demonstration. Every time that runs it's standing room only. People very interested about. Of course, it's a football, European football, not American football, so we're showing what you can do, and teams experience watching the games and actually how you can change the experience of training. And tremendous amounts of people interested in that. I mean, it's always an amazing crowd of people. Just because it's so intriguing and something we can all relate to. Because we want to have a better experience with this. [Interviewer] You know, Floyd, the Smart Stadiums thing is a really interesting thing. I just shared a link on the CUBE365.net/MWC17, that's our URL for our new CUBE365 all year long site. But one of the articles I shared was from the FC Barcelona Football Club and there was a speech at Mobile World Congress where the president gave a talk to explain the role FC Barcelona in the development of sports through knowledge and innovation to generate value for the club and society. And you think about the stadium aspect of what you were just talking about, is interesting. It's a place where people get together in an analog world, but yet when you weave in a digital services, the role of say an SAP, powering the database and doing all the back office things to power the business, combined with IoT, you now can bring in real people into experiences that are tied to the sports. But also you can go beyond that. You can take that digital interaction and take it to the next level. So there is a data aspect to a society role here. So you're seeing sports teams going beyond marketing their club to having an impact. Can you share any color on that? Do you agree? Do you guys have anything that you're showing? >> Floyd: Well, I agree. I think that much like racing is for the auto industry to bring innovations to the consumer side, or you could even say masses and states that comes into all of our lives. I think that this work is going to push the envelope, even harder than other areas, simply because they know that hundredths of a second is the difference between winning and losing. You know, we've gone with McLaren for years, working with them on tracking their race cars and building dashboards and giving them information. And now to be able to bring that type of technology to the stadium and bend the way that you actually have that interactive experience, it actually makes it that you want to go to the stadiums. Which is, you know, people are, it's a little bit of a hassle. You got the traffic, you got the people, it's like you can sit on your couch and watch it on your 4K television and be happy. I think that people need a way to actually draw the crowds in there. And I think that the interactions, especially with the work that we're doing with Apple and building native applications using our Fiori Technology and our UI Technology, it's starting to really bring together those classical back-end systems with all that rich data and bring it forward so people can actually experience what that data means and use it a different way. So I definitely agree with you. I enjoy working with the sports teams, 'cause they're willing to try anything that gives them a competitive advantage, and it's interesting how to take that technology and then apply it to the consumer and the business world. [Interviewer] Well, you know, we love to be called the ESPN of Tech, so we love sports here. So anytime you have a great sports event you can invite us to, we'd be happy to accept your invitation in advance. Appreciate that. Floyd, of course, great coverage. I'll give you the final word, and next we have a minute or two left. I'll say SAP big announcement with the Apple software development kit, the IOS general availability now. You got native developer support. That's classic bringing cloud native developers into the SAP fold which dominates the enterprise and business base from sports firms to large enterprises. Great marketplace behind that. But you guys are doing a lot more with IoT, AI and machine learning. Share, just take a minute to talk about the key things that SAP is doing for the folks watching. Because losing the name HANA Cloud really emphasizes that SAP is SASifying their entire business, which includes things like microservices, and having kind of IoT as a service and managing workloads dynamically in realtime with a consumer front-end feel to it. Take a minute to describe the key important points of what you guys announced and are impacting. >> Floyd: I would say the biggest thing that we have going really is two-fold. One, it's the elevation of this brand. SAP protects our brand. It's a very, very noticeable and valuable brand. To elevate the platform to a top-tier brand, basically it's signaling to everybody, our customers, our partners, independent software vendors, our competitors, anyone else out there that SAP is serious about building a platform in the cloud that is world-class, enterprise grade and has the capabilities that our customers need to make this digital transformation and we're coming. We're going to innovate at a fast clip and we're not that old SAP that people think about. I think the partnership with Apple further shows that. I mean Apple is very choosy about who they work with. They're at our booth. They're helping us They're showing the demonstrations. They're working on the SDK. And that realization that, hey, to build these world-class native applications, using Swift and this SDK and the capabilities that would bring, are now elevating that game in the mobile space for our customers, which is key. And I think it's a very powerful partnership because we're both such recognizable brands and we both have a really solid enterprise presence and a large ecosystems. On the services, you know, the big thing I would just say, is the IoT services is ready for people to use now in the Beta fashion. It's combining all the access so we can build a device cloud with the Symantec data model that's a little bit different than other people are doing. And combining that with our Leonardo applications which give you a good idea of what's possible on the cloud. And to be able to keep pushing that forward, I think is key. We have the big data services which was the alpha scale announcement, acquisition now being fully integrated into the platform is huge. It basically gives us world-class Spark Services, which we need to be able to compete in this world. You know and I think that the service improvements are there. There's some good service improvements incremental and some things that our enterprises really want from us, like workflow and the ability to put a little infrastructure in there with virtual machines. And our data center build out. You know, friends don't let your friends build data centers, but some companies have to build data centers, so having the ability to have a data center now in Japan and in China, is key to our customers, especially with all this legal wrangling that's going on in clouds. So I think all in all for SAP, it's been a great show. A great place to showcase that we're doing stuff differently and watch out for what we're going to be doing in the future. Because we got a lot more stuff coming, and we're going to be a player in this space. And we're ready. [Interviewer] All right, Floyd Strimling, global vice president with SAP Cloud Platform. Final question, I mean I got to ask you. How's the food? How's the tapas? Are you going to take a nap and then stay out 'til four in the morning then doing it all over again? Barcelona style? >> Floyd: It is Barcelona-style right now. I got to go get some Sangria, some tapas and then we'll hit the places that the tourists don't go to, and have some real good time with the locals. You can't come to Barcelona and go to sleep, that's not allowed. [Interviewer] All right. You're not allowed. Hey, spread the CUBE love for us out there. Really appreciate your taking the time. Thanks, Floyd. We'll talk to you later. Thanks so much. >> Floyd: Thanks. [Interviewer] Okay, Floyd Strimling on the ground in Barcelona here on theCUBE by remote coverage from Palo Alto. We're going to be going wall-to-wall 'til six o'clock tonight, 8 a.m. tomorrow morning, and again, we'll have reaction from folks on the ground in Barcelona. Hopefully we'll get some folks late night and hopefully it might be a little bit lubricated up a little bit, socially lubricated, get to share some good dirt. That's where all the action's happening, up in Barcelona and this is theCUBE. We'll be right back with more coverage, more analyses. We've got Tom Joyce coming in, industry executive to help me break down from his perspectives, the horses on the track. Who's going to win, who's going to lose, and what's going on with NFV? Because NFV certainly now has a bigger opportunity with 5G connecting all these devices together. That's the big story as well as the big devices and the new upgrades. Be back with more after this short break.

(smooth electronic music) >> Hello, everyone, welcome to theCUBE here in Palo Alto covering Mobile World Congress 2017, #MWC17. I'm John Furrier. We are here with Dan Lahl who's the Vice President of Product Marketing at SAP. SAP HANA Cloud now named SAP Cloud. Dan, thanks for coming in and talking about Mobile World Congress. >> You bet and I'm happy to talk about SAP Cloud Platform. That's what we're talking about. >> So the big news is a lot of stuff going on with Mobile World Congress but let's get down from SAP's perspective. You guys have changed the name from SAP HANA Cloud Platform to SAP Cloud Platfrom >> [Dan] Yeah that's right. >> So why that nuance there? What's the specific point there? >> It's way more than just dropping a word from the name of the product. It's really about repositioning where SAP is. So SAP has been an application company for forever. But as companies move to now from mode one, which is kind of application running, to mode two, which is doing more about agility, optimizing their enterprise, digital transformation, we have to have an offer in that second place. That's where the SAP Cloud Platform fits. Things like IoT services, and integration services, and over 40 services we offer on the platform. We're now helping companies become more agile by being very easy and able to personalize any SAP asset, any SAP app. So you have S/4HANA, you want to personalize it, customize it? You use Cloud Platform to do that. You want to integrate success factors in with your on premise apps SAP or otherwise? You use Cloud Platform to do that. >> A lot of change over the past year. At Sapphire last year, we talked about this at theCUBE. In Orlando I interviewed you specifically about the cloud momentum. One of the things that was striking me, and we talked specifically about SAP had this installed based customer set, which you guys have some of the biggest names in business from powering by SAP. Then new sets of developers onboarding and significant was the Apple announcement where you guys were partnering with Apple Computer and Apple doesn't usually go up on stage with many partners. >> That's right. >> It's very rare. They were onstage with you guys. This was really a seminal moment because this kind of brings two worlds together. It brings the existing SAP software world and the Apple world. So a lot's changed there. I know the news that's hitting around Apple's GA, general availability, of the iOS kit. But also it's the growth of the cloud within SAP and the SaaSification that you guys are going through that journey. Give us an update on those two fronts. The iOS news, that general availability, what does that mean? Two, how is the SaaSification of SAP inside the entire, across the business? >> You bet, you bet. So really exciting with the Apple SDK. When we met last year, I sat on the edge of the bed and told you how great it's going to be, okay? We really hadn't defined exactly what was going to be in the SDK. We already had the all the parts, and pieces to be able to take an iPhone device, and pull it back in to access SAP applications. But we really didn't have much native work that we had thought through with Apple on the deliver side on the mobile device. So we've added a number of controls that Apple is actually adding in to their system into the iOS 10. We're actually creating applications, taking advantage of these new controls. As enterprise applications work in a little bit more complex way than let's say playing Candy Crush on your iPhone, right? We've come up with new controls to make it more easy for someone like a project manager to do project management over their day. Or a service technician to do how they look at their appointments, how they're going to look at parts and pieces they need to put into different service appointments. It's been a really great collaboration. Then the other thing we're doing is we're adding SAP Academy or iOS Academy. The iOS Academy will be aimed at training a million SAP developers and 10 million Apple developers on how to use this SDK, how to think about delivering enterprise apps using this native iOS environment. >> What's the impact to the customer? Because Apple essentially, it's their phone, so you're talking about a mobile native app. >> [Dan] Yes, exactly. >> Taking a software cloud model to the phone. Is that kind of the key point? >> Yeah. SAP has been awesome at business processes and really funky at how it's displayed on screens. I mean I know when I started work at SAP, every screen I had to look for where the next key was. Apple is just the opposite. They're awesome at the UI but not known for the greatest business processes. So we're marrying those two things together. >> Bill McDermott has always been high on the Apple. I remember four Sapphires ago he was holding up the iPad saying-- >> That's right. >> "This is going to power our analytics business." >> Which it is. >> He was right on that. >> He's driven us to make that happen. Apple's come along which has been really great. Again, now we're delivering. >> How was the SaaSification going on because workloads as a service is a theme that comes up a lot. You see hybrid cloud certainly driving a lot of that momentum. Hybrid cloud is not as sexy as AI and autonomous vehicles. But certainly it's a lot of brute force action going on. People are really moving to the hybrid cloud. >> That's right. Hybrid cloud is going to be with us for at least 10 years. Everybody thought okay, the cloud is going to be awesome. As an LOB, I'm just going to pick my app whether that's CRM, or HCM, or whatever. I'm going to have this awesome app that I'm just going to be able to run in my business. Then they figure out oh, as a line of business, this is hard to manage. I'm going to give it back to IT. IT says, "Wow, the HCM guys are not "tied in with workforce management." There's nothing between how we're managing our people and how we're managing our workforce. Or how we're doing our pipeline with how we're managing our supply chain. The SaaSification, what we're providing with Cloud Platform is the ability to tie those things together. So native integration services to be able to tie things like success factors or, believe it or not, Salesforce into SAP delivery systems, supply chain systems, bringing ecosystems together using SAP Cloud Platform. So the personalization of the SaaS apps, integration of the SaaS apps into the enterprise, and then actually working with customers to create ecosystem hubs believe it or not. So we've got customers that have actually said, "Hey, I'm a manufacturer but I've got a lot of information "about what's going on in the manufacturing process "and how my customers are using my products. "I'm going to build a hub on the Cloud Platform "and get all my customers and partners "working together on that hub. "Now I'm actually selling information "that'll allow me to sell more of my product." So we see that happening too. >> We're with Dan Lahl, the Vice President of Product Marketing with SAP, breaking down the Mobile World Congress 17 coverage. I'm John Furrier here in theCUBE. Dan, I want you to take a minute to just lay out all the news and the key announcements that's happening this week for SAP at Mobile World Congress. In context of the backdrop of the key things that are happening in terms of the trends at the show. >> Yeah so I'll talk mostly about the Cloud Platform content. So there's some other things happening with SAP. But from a Cloud Platform perspective, it really is the shift to Cloud Platform as a strategic platform for the company in the cloud. So that's really big. Along with that, the iOS SDK, we've already talked about. We're going into beta on our IoT services. So we've now got over 40 protocols that we're supporting. We've got device management, device provisioning, dashboards for monitoring and managing those. The IoT services, which will be the foundation for our portfolio of apps that we deliver, is all going to be on Cloud Platform. We're delivering that service. They're going to announce some things in the Leonardo portfolio, which is our IoT applications. Those work together hand in glove. Some other things, some other bits and bites. We're opening data centers in Japan and China. We're hitting the Asia Pacific market pretty hard allowing customers to take their-- >> Those are SAP data centers? >> SAP data centers. >> Cloud, for SAP Cloud. >> To run SAP cloud in Japan and China with backup and recover, disaster recovery, HA, in between those data centers. Then also we're providing the capability for customers to bring their own applications onto our cloud if they want to run them closed to their cloud applications or SAP Cloud applications. So a VM style of service that we bring. But we're not going to compete against AWS in that. But if you want to bring that next to an SAP app, boom, you can do that very easily. >> I want to ask you about some of the hot trends that we're tracking on (mumbles) on thCUBE and certainly looking at the data. It's pretty obviously that IoT is the hottest, I would call tangible, trend. AI is the hottest hyped trend. >> Coming trend, yeah. >> Well I mean I think AI is legit and I'm a big fan of AI. But I think it gives people a more of a mental model than IoT. IoT's like oh, industrial, internet of things. It's kind of esoteric to the mainstream. AI is robots, flying drones, flying saucers, flying cars. So it gives people a kind of a feel for kind of what machine learning and IoT can point to. So I want you to talk about what you guys got going on there. The other thing that comes up from a customer standpoint, I want to get your thoughts and commentary on, is the number one thing that comes up besides topic on IoT is integration. Integration points is critical. So open cloud is something that you guys have promoted. IoT kind of brings that to the table. How do I bridge IoT into the cloud? How do I integrate either my on parameter clouds? These are the kind of the threads that are being discussed right now. >> You forgot big data. You forgot that one too. So hey, I worked for an AI company in the 90s after AI was dead, okay? AI was hot in the 80s. I worked for an AI company in the 90s. It was dead until today. >> It's back again. >> I'm just shocked that it's back. So the AI piece-- >> By the way, machine learning hasn't really changed much since 10, 20 years ago either. >> Exactly either as well. But we're building all of our AI and machine learning capabilities using SAP Cloud as the base. We're bringing in some open source technology from Google and others. But we're going to be building services on top of Cloud Platform that will allow you to build machine learning AI apps as well as delivering bespoke applications like matching invoices and some other things that makes sense for SAP. >> Well the IoT thing you bring up, in joking about AI, I think the reality is that AI's been around for a long time as you mentioned, as well as machine learning. But I think that the trend that comes up that makes it so peaked for real time right now is cloud horsepower is awesome, almost infinite compute power available, and the tsunami of data. So you combine the fact that, all those new data sources, with horsepower, and now with 5G dropping on main stage with Intel's announcement, you're seeing a confluence of a new fabric being kind of weaved together. That's interesting because now you have the compute, that's not a bottleneck anymore. So overhead whether it's security encryption, and/or security techniques, machine learning, goes away. AI can now do other things. So this is an interesting-- >> It's an interesting area. You kind of named it. You have to have the ability to ingest all this stuff through an IoT type of streaming capability. You got to be able to analyze it in real time, that's our in-memory capability. We talked about the AI, analyze it in real time. The one thing we haven't talked about is you have to have a big data repository to be able to troll through months and years of data. We've actually added the Altiscale company to our portfolio. So now Altiscale is part of SAP. We're renaming that Big Data Services. But it'll be basically Altiscale. So now you've got Hadoop in the cloud. So you've got an IoT, you've got your in-memory capability through HANA in the cloud. You've got your Hadoop in the cloud. All of that is one piece of cloth to us. You can apply IoT against that. You can apply AI against that. You can apply machine learning against that. And guess what? Blockchain against that as well. That's a little bit early for us. But that is-- >> It's on the horizon for sure. >> [Dan] Exactly. >> This is basically talking about where you process the data and now see the IoT edge is something that we keep our own research team. Our team's been actively pursuing. So I want to ask you to explain a little bit about this IoT service you guys announced. What is that about? I mean how would you describe that capability in SAP Cloud? >> Well it's funny. IoT is all about streaming data if you think about. I've been in streaming data since 2008 'cause we were heavy into financial services and understanding the transaction. So we were running algorithmic trading back in 2008 and we bought a couple of companies that did that. You would say, "Streaming data," to people and they would go like this, right? But now with the iPhone, and people understanding that their iPhone is a sensor device, and people now finally get that well data streaming is a big deal. >> Autonomous vehicle's a highlight set big time. >> Exactly. You kind of hit the nail on the head when you said you have to have not only an analysis inside the data center, in the cloud, but you have to push as much as can of that out to the edge. So part of what we're delivering as IoT services is a whole edge set of components that will actually do some of the analytics out at the edge in the hubs. Like what Intel provides, or Huawei, or Dell, or other companies with these gateway hubs. As well as capturing streaming data, doing store and forward of that data. So it's pushing IoT out to the edge for real time decision making, bringing it back into the data center for maybe a little bit more real time deeper analysis, and then connecting it to a big data source so you can actually troll through that over time, and say over the last six months, "Here's the supplier that's doing great. "Here's the supplier that's giving me not so great parts." All of those pieces for customers at the end of the day is really important. Making them more agile in the IoT environment. Making them more connected in the IoT environment and big data environment. Connecting the enterprise to that. So it's all helping customers from our view. >> Congratulations on the news. Well first the name change I think symbolizes a cloud centric philosophy company wide, which is great. SaaSification of SAP, which is huge for your customer base. But also the Apple news I've always been bullish on because that brings an opportunity for developers to work with you and vice versa. The monetization for developers to play in your ecosystem certainly is a great opportunity. Those are the two big news. >> Just think about that Apple piece. They can now take a process, they can build a set of controls, build a new app, and then monetize that in the App center. That will be very cool. Monetizing enterprise applications or extensions to enterprise applications. Pretty cool. >> Well that's one of the reasons why the enterprise is super hot right now. 'Cause the consumer market is (mumbles) you've seen those unicorns you see Airbnb, you see Uber, all the examples we talk about. Netflix, Amazon, enabling all that good stuff, and others. But now the enterprise is sexy one, because there's some real transformation going on from the network to the Apple Air. But there's business to be done, there's actual opportunities for people to have their work of art, the developers if you will, be monetized. >> If you put IoT, and big data, and AI behind all of that, and then make it look beautiful on the device, that's beautiful. >> IoT is a real trend. I mean that-- >> It's real. >> It's definitely happening right now and I think that's where the meat on the bone is in my mind. Okay Dan, final question for you. For the folks watching and our paying attention to Mobile World Congress in general and in the world, what is the key thing that you think they should walk away with about SAP Cloud now? With the new name, with the Apple news, all this good stuff happing at Mobile World Congress. What is the key walk away message that you'd like to send to folks to know the current state of SAP Cloud? What's the key message? >> So I would say the key message is we've talked about it but now we're delivering. SAP is all in on the cloud. We're not only delivering the SAP Cloud Platform but also S/4HANA, cloud as well. Tons of apps being built using SAP Cloud Platform. SAP is all in on the cloud, all in in mode two computing to help our customers. That's the big news. >> Dan Lahl, Vice President of Product Marketing at SAP Cloud. I'm John Furrier. You're watching a special two day coverage of Mobile World Congress 2017 here in the studios of Palo Alto covering it from Silicon Valley. We've got folks on the ground bringing you more action after this short break. (smooth electronic music) (light electronic music)

>> Voiceover: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's The Cube, covering Sapphire Now, headlining sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform as a service, with support from Consolink, the cloud internet company. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burse. >> Welcome back everyone, we are here live in Orlando, Florida for Sapphire Now, SiliconeANGLE Media's exclusive coverage of Sapphire. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burse. This is our flagship program, we go out to the events, and extract the citizen noise, you're watching The Cube. I want to do a shout-out to our sponsors. Without their help, we would not be here. SAP HANA Cloud Platform, Consolink at CONSOL Cloud, hot start up in Silicone Valley, and also we have Cap Gemini, we have EMC. Thanks so much for your support. Our next guest is Gaby Corin, who's the EVP of the Americas for Panaya, accompanied about a year ago by Infosys, now a part of Infosys. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you so much. >> Congratulations on the acquisition over a yeah ago, but you guys are to a part of the big machinery of Infosys, which is tier one systems integrated part of SAP's global channel, as they call it, but essentially, you're out serving customers all over the world. >> Gaby: That is correct, yes. >> At Infosys, what's your role in the Infosys organization, and what does your company do? >> Okay, so, I'll start with the company. Panaya was founded ten years ago. Our quest is to help customers to perform all their changes in their ERP environment. We basically analyze the environment, create that mapping, that baseline that helps them understand exactly what they're dealing with, then we support them in scoping out the changes, and then, we work with them throughout the journey of executing on all the testing cycles associated with all the changes. We serve about two thousand customers, and we are a hundred percent cloud-based solution. My role as EVP for the Americas is to support all customers in the region, and we're working very closely with Infosys into bringing Panaya as part of their offering to accelerate the processes, to bring innovation, and to bring much more efficiency to all the SAP projects and activities that they perform with our customers. >> We had the global partner person on earlier, and that was the big point, innovation's now at the center, not just delivery, which Infosys has been great at, but also other things, innovation, time is very important. >> Exactly. >> Your solution speeds things up, so share with us what it is, is it a SAS space? Is it code analyzers? Is it for QA? Is it for testing? What specifically do you guys solve? What problem do you solve? >> Great question. First of all, we are a SAS-based solution, so we do everything in the cloud. This helps, as you said, perform all the tasks faster and more efficiently. The pain that we're coming to address is the fact that change is constant in the ERP. The ERP is never an island, never an isolated solution. It's always in changes, the core of a lot of the businesses that we meet here, so change is their reality, they need to change all the time. They are highly customized, so every change that come from the vendor or from the business requires a lot of preparation and very fast execution, and this is where Panaya plays. We simulate the change virtually in the cloud, and we tell customers in advance what is going to happen to their environment all the way to the code line level what exactly is going to break, how to fix it, what to test, and we support them, again, throughout all the testing cycles from the unit test or the technical test all the way to user-acceptance test, UATs, that is a big pain to organization because of the collaboration. >> It's faster is the point. So, you guys speed up the process. >> Absolutely, we speed up the process, we reduce costs, we bring customers faster to market by about fifty percent, and we allow them to do their projects at the budget that they establish or lower. >> Give me an example of someone who has the problem, and what their environment looks like. Because everyone's trying to get to the cloud, and your solution is tailor-made perfectly for the cloud because it's very dev-ops-like. It makes things go faster, it's part of that whole agile iteration speed game, which we love, but the people trying to get there that are figuring it out, what's their environment, people who have the problem? What's their environment look like? Paint the picture. >> Virtually any SAP customer needs Panaya. >> John: That's a good plug. It's complicated. >> Yes. Their environment can have one instance, or multiple instances of SAP ECCs. They all have the need for testing because they perform testing all the way. They are trying to bring some of the applications to the cloud, but not necessarily. Most of our customers still are heavily on-premise based, so what we do is that we do all the analysis in the cloud, and this is how we help them do things much faster. >> So I got to ask you the Infosys question, because I'm a big fan of Vishal Sikka. For many years, I've watched his work at SAP, certainly. He was very, very early on and very right on a lot of technical decisions around how things played out. I watched him during the SOA days, going back to the web services days, which is the late 90's, early 2000s, he had the right call and vision on web services, and then service-oriented architectures. >> Yes. >> He brought a lot of great mojo to SAP and has always been very open-source driven. >> Right. >> John: And he's just a cool guy, so what's it like working there? I mean, is he always on top of the employees? Do you talk to him? What's it like inside the company at Infosys, and specifically Vishal, what's he up to? >> First of all, he's such a visionary. You listen to him and his vision. His vision is people and software. And he wants to make a difference when it comes to supporting customers, being an SI, being at a company that creates and makes a difference. He's also very personal, so he's very approachable. He loves ideas as innovation, and he believes that the innovations come from within, so he's a huge supporter of Panaya and bringing Panaya to every single Infosys customer and opportunity, but he has that vision that you don't replace a thing, you don't replace stuff. You take something, and you bring, but you learn to collaborate, and you understand that the environments needs to be flexible, and the only way to bring that flexibility is to take the existing environment and continue to bring innovation, even if it's in small steps, you bring that innovation to the table. And this is what makes it so unique to work for a guy like him. >> The traditional systems integrator relationship, there's always been tension, a lot of tension between customers and systems integrators. >> Gaby: Yes. >> Customers say they want something. Systems integrators have the expertise to do it. Customers want it fast, systems integrators sometimes use their experience to inflate billings, but the customer increasingly is in charge in almost all global markets. The question is are you helping your customers stay more in control of Infosys engagements? And if the answer is yes, how does that improve the value proposition of Infosys? >> Okay, that's a great question. One of the reasons that Panaya remains an independent and contained organization within Infosys is, besides commitment to support that, we sell direct a lot to our customers, and we support, we remain objective, whoever the customer chooses to work with, whether it's to do it in house or to use system integrators. And we have more and more projects that there are three, four, or five system integrators that are involved, and each one does a piece of the solution, and Panaya gives that control because of their analysis, because of the support on the planning stage. We paint the right picture of where you are today, where do you want to go, and in the journey of doing that. This is one of the claims of victory of Panaya is that we bring that control back to the hands of the customers exactly as they want to, because they want to understand what are they dealing with, what are the pricing, and SIs on the other hand, also understand that prices cannot continue to be cut forever and ever. But if you don't bring that innovation, that people plus software, it will be impossible to continue to compete in this market. >> They get more net contract value on the sales as they deliver value. >> Gaby: Exactly, to the customers. >> So if they're helping their customers drive more cash and revenue-- >> Well, I would presume that it actually starts with the contracting process for a lot of these efforts is itself very, very expensive and often leads to not a lot of value, and so I presume that in response to what you just mentioned, John, that you're generating artifacts to make it easy for the customer, the SAP customer, to envision where they need to go, and those artifacts then help the SAP customer manage the integrator and the company doing it, which then dramatically reduces the contracting process. >> Gaby: Exactly. >> Because it's a lot clearer, which means I can focus more on the management of the partner-- >> You release resources, correct. >> As a set of capabilities because because it always changes along the way. >> That is correct. >> As I change, I can envision that using some of the technologies you're bringing to bear. >> That is correct, we create these assets that can be reused time and again, and then we free up resources so they can focus on innovation and additional activities. That is exactly our value proposition, you got it absolutely right. >> So, are you a consultant management system in the SAP world? >> We don't claim to be, no, we bring solutions. We're not in the consulting business at all. >> Peter: No, managing the consulting business. >> Oh, absolutely, we help to manage that process. >> Helping the customer manage those consultants. >> That is correct, that is correct. Yes, you're absolutely right. >> My final question for you, thanks for coming on The Cube, by the way, I know it's short notice. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> Great to have the insight. What's the biggest change in the ecosystem are you seeing today? Because you're close to the code, so you're close to all the action at Panaya and certainly Infosys is massive and global. What is the biggest change that's happening in the ecosystem, with SI's and generally across the board? >> That's a great question. One thing that we're seeing is much more competition. The customer is much more educated, exactly as you, Peter, said. The customers are much more educated, they know what they want, and they're coming in with much more control and knowledge, so we're seeing this. Customers are looking for much more long-term activities. This is why HANA is becoming such a strong, we're seeing this also here in this show how everybody's talking HANA, because it's not something that you do for the next year. It's something that is going to be with these customers for a long term. They are looking for long-term type of engagements. >> They don't have to buy a lot of HANA. They can actually put their toe in the water, if you will. The old days it was you buy SAP, and you hired the SI's, project management, delivery over a long period of time. They don't have to do that today. They can still have a long view with HANA, right? I mean, are you seeing that, too? >> Yes, and what we're seeing is, a move on this regard, we're seeing a move from best of suite into best of breed. We want on each area the best solution possible. >> Without ballooning integration and training costs. >> Correct, correct, and we fit perfectly into that story. >> Well, thanks so much. Real quick question for you. You guys have a big end-user event like Sapphire. >> Gaby: Yes. >> Didn't you just have one in San Francisco recently? Or do you have one coming up? What's going on with the events for Infosys? >> We participated in Confluence, which is a very large event of Infosys, just a couple of weeks ago. Very, very well-attended, and we-- >> John: Is that a global conference in San Francisco or is it in other areas? >> It's a global event in which the largest, the biggest customers of Infosys attend, once a year, they get together. It's all about thought leadership and sharing ideas, design thinking, which Vishal is leading very strongly. That was the main theme of the event, so we had the chance to meet a lot of our customers and prospects. Now, of course, Sapphire. >> Thank you so much for coming on, Gaby. Great to have you on The Cube, and welcome to the Cube alumni now that you're on The Cube. We are live here in Orlando for SAP Sapphire Now. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burse with the Cube. You're watching SiliconANGLE' The Cube. (futuristic music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering Sapphire Now. Headline sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform-as-a-service, with support from Consul, Inc, the Cloud internet company. Now here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Everyone, we are live in Orlando, Florida for a special presentation of theCube at SAP Sapphire Now's theCube SiliconANGLE's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from noise. I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Peter Burris Want to give a shout out to our sponsors. Without them, we would not be here. SAP HANA Cloud Platform Console Inc, Capgemini and EMC, thanks for your support, really excited to be here. Wall-to-wall coverage, three days. Over forty videos going to be hitting YouTube: SiliconANGLE.com/youtube. Our next guest is Dan Lahl, VP of SAP HANA Cloud Platform Product Marketing, welcome to theCube, thanks for having us. >> Thank you, John. You got all that out without a stumble. That was fantastic. >> I memorize it. >> That's great. >> Without our sponsors, we wouldn't be here, thank you very much. Thanks to you, and it's a been great support from you and your team. Really appreciate it, welcome to theCube. >> Love being here. You guys have something very unique in how you bring a play-by-play but from an analyst's perspective, very, very unique. >> Someone called me Pat Summerall, and Peter, John Madden yesterday, which was a great compliment because our lives are ESPN of tech. >> And I like it because it means I'm the better looking one. >> Exactly. >> NFL Gameday, but the game is on. >> Peter: Who's a guy? >> John: Boom! (laughs) >> Boom the Cloud is here! >> It's the whiteboard. But all seriously, great conversation. One of the things that's emerging out of the whole HANA Cloud Platform Ecosystem play is that it's really buzzing, and it's not like sizzle, but it's steak on the grill as well. So, just a lot of meat on the bone and the thing that we're seeing is that SAP has been putting themselves out there with tech. And not trying to do the land grab, not saying, hey, we're SAP and this is all a marketing program to get more SAP share for our other stuff. There's clear separation between SAP stuff, whether it's, whatever the customers are buying, and then an open way for developers; both SAP developers and, now, mainstream developers, iOS and Apple so, huge shift. And the Ecosystem's super excited, so I got to ask you, how do you guys separate out the market? Explain to the folks out there how this all fits in because the HANA Cloud platform is more open, it's really non-SAP, in a way. And there's other clouds out there, and let's face it, you guys weren't getting the buzz. A little bit late to the party, and you've got the product in good position right now. But you got Amazon out there, as your Microsoft was here, you know, doing relationship with you, your partnering with Apple, IBM was on, Cisco, all the big guys are here working with you. Separate out what it means. >> So let me back up, let me back up and give you all the HANA buzzwords, we've been very confusing to the market on how we brand it to different HANA products. There's the HANA database, data managing platform, we came out with that in 2011; very similar to Oracle from SQL Interface standpoint, very different from a technology standpoint. All in memory, and everybody knows that by now. Then, we have another initiative called S/4HANA. That's taking all of the applications, putting them onto the HANA data management platform. So that's the app stack. So business suite is now S/4HANA. So data management was HANA, S/4HANA, app stack. Then we have something called the HANA Enterprise Cloud, and that's just basically a managed service. You want to take your landscape, give it to our data center, let us manage for you. >> For SAP stuff? >> SAP stuff. Yeah, not any of the red stuff or anybody else's apps but >> But some of the partner extensions? >> But some of the partner extensions, yes. And that has to be certified, but basically it's a managed service. So you want to give your data center over to SAP? Guarantee that it will run, we'll upgrade all of the apps and enhancement packs and that kind of thing. So that's HANA Enterprise Cloud. And then finally, HANA Cloud Platform is something different altogether. It really is our offer, open platform as a service. So, any of the applications that SAP is shipping today, whether that be business suite, S/4HANA, Success Factors, Ariba, Concur, Cloud for Customer, you name it, can be extended or integrated using HANA Cloud Platform. Okay, so HANA data management, HEC, the managed service, S/4HANA, the new app stack, HCP, really the extension platform for that SAP Ecosystem. Okay? Now I say that, it's an open platform. It's Java-based, can you believe it? It's not ABAP-based, it's Java-based. Node.js, all open systems. We announced at the show that we're shipping Cloud Foundry with Node.js runtimes scripting languages like Ruby and Python and PHP and Go. Databases like Mongo and Postgres and Redis, it's open systems, baby, right? >> All the tools that they are offering. >> Exactly, they can do that. Yeah. So, any programmer under 30, we can now approach and have a conversation with. They don't have to learn a German programming language, right? Now, whether it's good or bad, it doesn't make any difference, it's open systems, right? And so that's kind of the framework of what we announced. >> What's that mean to developers? Let's take that forward, okay, open cloud platform, okay, great, under 30, or, just open source is so good now all the Q&A, all the questions are on Stack Overflow and all these Node.js and technology out to be used, so that's what people want. Okay, what's the impact to me? I'm the developer. What does it mean? What's in it for me? Do I have access to all the SAP stuff? I'm used to dealing with all these different tools to put systems together. >> That's the beauty, John, is all of those tools that you use, as an open systems developer, you can now, through HANA Cloud Platform, get to the back end systems that we didn't expose before, expect through an ABAP stack. Right, you don't have to learn BAPIs, you don't have to learn ABAP. You can use your Java capabilities, using Eclipse if you want, if you want to do it on your desktop device, or use a web IDE that's Java-based, right? >> But you're exposing these through API? >> Exactly, exactly, through either APIs or through integration services, through a direct connect back to the back ends. And we not only expose data, but also processes as well, so you can take advantage of a process. One of the things we announced this week was the API Business Hub. So now, we're going to deliver a catalog of APIs, where we'll publish into and an open system developer can say Oh, what's with that management accounting services? That hooks back into S/4HANA, I just need to call the API and take advantage of those management accounting services. Very cool. >> So on the Apple relationship, which is an iOS-based thing, the developer can then go to the Enterprise customer, so this is the Ecosystem now, okay I'm a developer. I have a whitespace, I see some unique thing, a problem that my customer has, that I can solve, or I'm an entrepreneur and say Hey, you know, I have a unique idea, I want to solve that problem. I code it but I might rely on SAP data, say an ERP, I could tap that-- >> You can now tap it. >> John: And integrate it in seamlessly? >> Yes, and show it natively on an iOS device. That's what we're delivering through the ACP software development kit SDK. So you're an Apple developer today. Well, you could develop the next SnapChat or some consumer-to-consumer app. But interesting, the bulk of Apple devices or the bulk of devices in the Enterprise, are Apple devices. They're not Android devices. Apple's done some work on that, upwards of 75% are actually Apple devices. So now, you're a developer, you want to get access to all of those different applications that SAP has, delivered in beautiful 1990s master detail today. >> Let's face it, I mean, we had this comment on theCube which we concur with, the user experience of Enterprise software is dated, and old, and people are bringing their phones to work. >> That's really kind of you to say dated and old, okay? I would have said old and crappy, okay? >> No one wakes up and says, hey I can't wait to download my Enterprise app and use it on the weekend. It's like root canal, don't love it, but you need it. >> Part number 000743xp, okay so now they can get into all of those processes without having to know the back end process. Through the SDK, we're going to expose all of those. >> Share some data on some of the onboard. I know you had a lot of early adopters and now the program's ramping up. We've talked over the past year and you guys are tweaking the product. You want to make sure the product was solid, that was key. Might have been delayed a little bit, but the timing of the Apple announcement, perfect. But I can imagine that the developers are excited because certainly in the Ecosystem out there, in Silicon Valley and beyond, there's a softening, it's kind of a bubble bursting, if you will, on the consumer stuff, so there might not be a couple more unicorns. The few unicorns that come along at every cycle of innovation. But the Enterprise is hot, so the buzz on the street is the Enterprise is hot, that's where you make money. As everyone works for a revenue model, you got to break even, so, there's a big focus on that in the entrepreneurial ecosystem. So, is there an uptake that you can share or any stats on the kinds of new onboarding that you guys are doing. >> Yeah, so just this week, we also announced that IBM is taking all of their MobileFirsts for iOS applications. They're going to participate in the SDK and they're going to move all of their applications onto the HANA cloud platform. They had a beautiful UI that they built for a hundred little mobile apps that were enterprise ready, but not enterprise connected. So now they're going to connect all those hundred little apps like Find&Fix, and Parts Manager and that kind of thing. >> I can see the slogan now. Enterprise: Ready to Connect. >> Exactly. >> Connecting. >> It's pretty decent validation of some of the things we're talking about here. >> Exactly, and the HCP play in it, for SAP is that's the gearbox to get them back to all of the SAP apps. Whether they be On Premise business suite, On Premise S/4HANA, Workforce Management, with Success Factors and Fieldglass. It's the gearbox to get them back to all of those. >> So let me ask the question, you're in a private market so you've got your eye on the prize in the market, you're forward-facing, but also you've got to work with the product teams and deal with that. Do you see a window of opportunity right now? Because the timing of having the product ready with HANA Cloud Platform plus the Apple relationship and the IBM stuff, which is more validation, a window of opportunity, the wind is at your back. This window, you've got a short window to kind of go out and win. Are you worried about that? Are you guys investing heavily now, do you see now a time to throttle it up and pedal to medal, straight and narrow, 90 miles an hour? >> You know, I actually see it as the wave is forming. Okay, I don't think our customer base knows that much about HANA Cloud Platform, it really has its coming out party at TechWave, last October. It's now exposed to the business group. We had the techie outage, now its the business outing. I see the wave starting to form, okay? And we've got to catch the wave and we got to ride the crap out of it. And there's a lot of stuff on the product side we have to deliver. There's a lot more that we have to do for integrating into our existing systems. We have to provide more direct, not direct connections, we've already got that piece, but more integration with the processes. We're not all the way there yet. So we have to push our product, our product management and engineering teams to do that. And that's not always easy at a big company like SAP that has all these different divisions building processes. And then the other hard part is, you got to make sure our sales reps are introducing us into every single customer account as a gearbox, as the agility platform. So that's starting to happen. So I wouldn't even say we're on the wave yet. We're starting to catch the wave. >> So let me build on that. I have two questions. I don't want to say they're quick. But here's the first one, here's what our CIO clients are telling us. One of the advantages of everything you said, platform, a lot of entry points, means that their business can pick their own road map for how they go to S/4HANA, as opposed to having single one-way, and that's the only way in, that'll extend the adoption cycle. Do you see that being a positive thing ultimately for not only SAP, in getting this message, and getting this product out, but also all the partners and the Ecosystem to drive this whole thing forward? >> Let me answer the customer part of that first. The way we have set up S/4 and HCP, is S/4 is the core that you really don't want to touch that much, you don't want to customize that much, you don't want to extend, you do that in HCP. Why would you want to do that? Well, as we deliver new enhancement packs, and we're delivering every couple of quarters, on the S/4 platform. Every time you do a customization inside the app, when you have to upgrade, you have to do regression tests, you got to check to customizations against the new rev. It becomes, in technical terms, a hairball. It becomes a huge hairball. Take that off the plate, just do it on HANA Cloud Platform. And so that's the customer angle to it, the partner angle to it is very simple, and it's a win-win for partners and for us. They can, and for customers as well, they can build a little app on the platform, snap it into S/4, Success Factor, and make it look like an app that's part of our SAS application, okay? The customer doesn't have to provision anything. The customer takes a tile and puts it on their Success Factor application. We win, because they're consuming it on HCP, so we're monetizing that too. So the partner has an easy path, the customer gets something easy, we help monetize on that. >> It's a great story and a lot of folks are looking forward, so for example, some of our clients are telling us, We are looking at the S/4platform, the S/4HANA platform, we came to it through analytics. So here's an interesting question Dan, you've got a lot of background in database. So the old way of thinking about building a database application is you didn't want to write an application required more than 80, 90, 100 disk I/Os. >> Yeah. Now we're talking about in-memory databases, calmative organization, provide any number of different straight-forward, common interfaces from a few standpoints back to the application. We're talkin' about what used to be or the equivalent of tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of I/Os. What does that mean to the types of applications that we're going to be able to build in the Ecosystem over the course of the next few years. >> So you're right in that all data's immediately available in-memory ready to go. But here's the cool thing that I think you were getting at. You can build a structure one time, you build a table structure one time. On top of that, you just build views, logical views. And then your queries or your application looks at the logical view. Now logical views aren't somethin' new. It was just horrible to do it on a disk-based databse. >> Yep, very digital. >> You have to do tons of optimizations. In a memory database, it doesn't matter. It's all there. You just look at the logical view. So we're going to see people stacking up more and more and more logical views. Specifically in the analytics case, we see that all the time. From a partner standpoint, they're going to build their table structure, and then mix and match different application types using logical views. And you know, in HANA, we provide calc views and attribute views. So even better ways to do that. >> But the bottom line is the way you get to that ability to take a tile and drop it into a system and add that functionality, is because that underlying platform can support that view in an almost unlimited way. >> Exactly, whether the data is in HANA in the Cloud, or whether the data is still on premise through a direct connection back in the existing HANA system on premise. >> Of course unstructured data complicates the database equation, but also they have to coexist with the schemas and the structured databases out there. Has that thrown a curve ball at you guys at all? Or not a problem at all with HANA? >> So you know we've got an answer for that with Vora. I don't know if you've talked to any of the Vora folks, but you know what Vora brings to the party is it brings in-memory capabilities. It's an in-memory indexer for dup data. So instead of pointing your sequel query or building a MapReduce or using Hive or one of those technologies-- >> Or data lakes-- >> Or whatever, you just point it at Vora, and it's already indexed in memory. So our plan and our hope is that soon Vora will be on the HANA Cloud Platform. So that's just another piece of technology-- >> Peter: Way of generating a view. >> It's another service that we provide for generating a view on top of the dup data. >> Yeah, that's key. So talk about the Ecosystem innovation. Because one of the things I loved in McDermott's opening keynote, and I love the term, business model innovation. 'Cause that just really speaks to a whole new level of innovation. Usually it's tech innovation. >> Yeah. >> You get destructive enablers, platforms. At the end of the day, the application of the tools and platforms, however they're developed, by whomever, impact something. That's the business. That's the revenue. These new processes that are emerging. IoT is a great example. It's kind of an unknown process. It's hard to automate that workflow because it's evolving in real time. What innovations can you point to that you see, and that SAP sees as key mile markers, if you will, that shows that these things are being innovated on the business model side with the Ecosystem? >> Yeah, I'll give you two examples, one that's kind of just a speed up. And then I'll give you one that's a business model. So Hamburg Port Authority is the Port Authority for Hamburg, the second largest port in Europe. For them to keep up with the competition, they're going to have to double and triple in the next 15 years, the amount of goods going through their port. They have nowhere to build out. They cannot make their port bigger. It's surrounded by a city. There's nowhere for them to go. So they're using HANA Cloud Platform to basically create a grid. They're creating a utility or a cell network grid of all the containers that are sensorized, all of the trucks that have telematics information in the trucks. And they're also bringing in traffic information so that when the container comes in, they can bring the exact truck in that needs to get it in the right path into the port. If you think about that, that's a cellular network. And that's what they built using HANA Cloud Platform. So it's a semi-change in business model for the technology-- >> So minutes matter to them. >> Seconds matter to them, literally. The faster they can match up the container with the truck that's going to move that container, the better off they are. >> They got to clear the inventory. Sounds like a business problem. >> Exactly, exactly right? And think about it, they're probably going to sensorize the ships as well. They're going to stage those guys coming in over time. >> John: What's the other example? >> The other example is really interesting. This small company in Germany that builds forklifts, There can be nothing more pedantic than a forklift. It picks up a pallet, it moves the pallet, it puts it down. So here's what this company's done. It's called Still Forklifts. They are using HANA Cloud Platform to match up their order system, which is an SAP with the forklifts that are sensorized on HANA Cloud Platform so that the order system will send the order to get picked by the forklift. And the forklift and the order system have the maps of where everything is in the warehouse. >> The client's order system. >> The client's order system. And they've also now, they haven't done it yet, but they're working on a forklift to forklift integration so that if this guy's over in this part of the warehouse he has to pick something up over here. This forklift is over here. They meet in the middle. Trade some product, get it out to the docking station. >> So the forklift is an IoT device to the order system. And it opens up the possibility of greater automation within the warehouse floor. >> And they've changed their business model. They're no longer selling forklifts. They're selling pounds of goods moved within the warehouse. From in the warehouse to shipped. And they're billing on a monthly basis based on pounds of goods shipped. They're not selling forklifts anymore. That is pretty cool. >> So that's a complete shift. >> That's a business model shift. >> It's an outcome shift. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> They're selling the outcome. >> Exactly, exactly. And they had to think differently about their business. They had to think, we are not a forklift operator. We're a goods mover operator. >> Or to your business model, we were a forklift operator. Now we're a goods mover, an in-warehouse goods mover. >> Exactly, exactly. >> That's a great example and also a huge innovation. Because now, as the keynotes were saying, people are afraid to go out of business. And so the opportunity for the Ecosystem is, put one of those guys at check. They'll get the check. If they don't move, you take their territory. >> Exactly. >> So it's a nice cycle, SAP wins on both sides. >> On both sides, yeah, very cool. >> All right Dan, I got to ask you the question. Plans for this year, you got the Apple. You got the Cloud Platform. You have all this goodness goin' on. What's the plans for the year. Give us a taste of some of the things that you want to achieve this year, out in the market. And what KPIs are you looking at-- >> Yeah, what are we going to be talking about this time next year? >> I think we're going to be talking about what did you guys do in the area of Cloud Foundry. Have you guys really delivered on your Cloud Foundry promise of going opensource and moving toward portability? So next year, if we're fortunate enough to speak again, That's what I want you to ask me. Where are you guys on delivering Cloud Foundry? Pushing opensource, open development for developers even further as we talked at the outset of the interview. And then secondly, where are we on the API business hub? What is SAP doing to expose the thousands of business services that we have to our customers? To be able to use the HANA Cloud Platform with a catalog of business services that we're exposing to help them extend or modify or build that new application. >> And new onboarding numbers, having numbers showing both. >> That's right. Now what that means from a revenue standpoint, it means, you know we got to double or triple our business next year. We're not talkin' a 10%, 15% growth. We're talking an order of magnitude growth for our part of the business. >> And so you'll be investing more in marketing, training, tools. >> All of the above, all of the above. >> Hey, companies want to get into the enterprise, and the existing enterprise suppliers want to stay in the enterprise. >> Exactly, exactly. >> John: So it's a good time to be an arms dealer. >> Exactly, and we'll supply it with the HANA Cloud Platform. >> John: Dan, thanks so much for sharing your insight here on theCube. Really appreciate it, and great to meet your team. >> As well. >> And everyone here has been fantastic. We are live, here in Orlando. The theme is live, here at SAP this year. And of course we got the live coverage from theCube. This is theCube, I'm John Furrier, with Peter Burris. We'll be right back. You're watchin' theCube. (soft electronic music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Orlando, Florida, It's The Cube covering Sapphire Now, headlining sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform-as-a-service with support from Console Inc., the cloud internet company. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone, We are here, live, in Orlando, Florida SAP Sapphire Now. This is SiliconANGLE Media's The Cube. It's our flagship program, we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Peter Burris, want to give a shout out to our sponsors, SAP Hana Cloud Platform, Console Inc, Capgemini, EMC, thanks so much for sponsoring us. Our next guest is Pat Bakey who's the president of SAP's Industry Cloud group. It's the core of the cloud, all SAP. Welcome to The Cube. >> Hi, it's great to be in The Cube, first time in The Cube. >> First time on The Cube, congratulations first time Cuber. Great to have you. You have, as holistically viewing across all the different lines of business, Cloud will be a very big part of the future and across all of SAP, that's the core business. Yet, now you have Hana cloud platform, you got all this other stuff going on. Now, you have cloudification of SAP in kind of a real time happening in this show, it's going to have an impact to the deployment model, the consumption model, and the economics. What's the take, what's the internal discussions? How you guys talk about it externally with costumers and how is it received? >> Right, so, you know what, I'll tell you what, this is the industry cloud organization, so, maybe I can start there. What's industry and cloud doing in the same sentence, in the same title? So, when you talk about digitization, what customers are looking for today, it's value and speed, right, speed and agility. So, the industry part of the equation is all about value. How do we communicated the value of our innovations in a message and understanding that gives the customers confidence to invest in a innovation agenda and that's kind of, historically, has always been the strength of SAP, is the language that we speak with our customers, it's well understood, we just make sure that we express that well across all industries and line of business with the digitization agenda. The cloud portion is where speed and agility comes into play. How do you move quickly, how do you move fast? If in yesterday's business the strength was your ownership of assets, the strength today, the attributes in which these companies compete on is speed, innovation, agility, and that's where cloud comes into play. >> And knowledge of the customer. How are you then bringing those two things together for your customerS? >> So, we're helping, actually, customers across all industries get closer to the customer. If there's one strategy that every customer in every industry is pursuing is get close to the customer. This is important, it may seem sort of simplistic, but it's easy to say, it's hard to do. So, we are helping customers understand what their customers and what their customer's customers are doing. It's driving a blurring of industries. You may say that I'm responsible for 26 industries, maybe oversimplifying 'cause we see this massive blurring of industries because as customers in industries are trying to get closer to their customers, they cross boundaries. >> And conversation let's them do that. >> Yeah, it's like we were talking about before, in this world of atoms, very restrictive, very kind of two-dimensional. Digital, it defies gravity, it defies boundaries, and that's why you see this blurring of boundaries in cross industry plays. >> Yeah, we're seeing that, too, you guys talk about it here, I heard it many times, breaking down the silos and the keynotes, but at the same time, you want to have that getting close to your customer mindset which means that the apps, the workloads are domain specific and there's some blurring, so the question is, how can you be vertically integrated at some level for that domain expertise and then be horizontally scalable because the data really becomes the blurring component, too, you have data moving around, so how do you guys look at that and are customers asking for this kind of architecture? >> Yeah, it's exactly, so... It's interesting, in the old world, you either had deep industry expertise in your applications, your technology, or you had sort of a broad, horizontal, and that got you a seat at the table. You had to be best in class in either of those. So, those still get you to the table, if you have those, but it may be a small table like the table that we deal with, with our customers, is an innovation table, it's a growth table, and it involves the whole board, the whole enterprise. If you get to that table, you need to have deep industry expertise and what do I mean by that? First, you speak the language, you understand their industry from a process and the capability area and then you have to express that across their businesses, so whether that business are traditional COM, the customer business around people, HR, or around procurement or even in the industries where you're taking look at supply chain or you're looking at planning, you need to be able to integrate the industry with the horizontal. When you have that conversation and that message, which we have, you're at the big table. >> The big boy table, so what are some of the conversations at the table, is it really more revenue-driving for the customer's customers? Is it cost-saving, both, is it implementation? What are some of the trending conversations that are happening at the big table? So, at the big table, at the top of the house, strategically, around this topic of digitization, the world of digitization, competition is at the business model level, that's what they're talking about which is, I know I'm in this business today, will I be in this business tomorrow and how do I compete tomorrow? It's less about the assets as we said before, what do you have, but it's the insight that you have and that's opening up a lot of new business opportunities, so at the big table, it's around business model innovation, that's what they're talking about. >> Let me see if I can connect a couple of things you said here, so it used to be that when you thought about industry, you thought about the organization of assets, your organization of assets looks like your organization of assets, how do you handle your balance sheets, but now we're talking about customers and in many respects, the new industry is defined by the things that your customers want to do that are common to your competitor's customers. >> Exactly. >> And sometimes they're the same customers. So, as SAP's ecosystem grows, as it expands, as you're able to attract, through new sources of value, to things like this wonderful Apple partnership that we want to give you guys a chance to talk about, do you see SAP's role moving from a provider of software to actually increasing the provider of a way of thinking about doing business, where SAP, in many respects, becomes an element, almost a core element, of the business model that your customers are using to make things happen. >> That is a great statement and I actually can point you in two directions and I want to get to the Apple relation because it actually expresses our strategy on taking advantage of that. So, I would say, historically, when we were just an application company, the source of innovation came from SAP, we understood business process, we understood industry, we built these remarkable applications, and our ecosystem took 'em, implemented, and customers enjoyed the success. We're in the world now of digitization and massive innovation and there's no way that we can be the single source of innovation, this is why you heard Burn, this is why you heard Robyn Bell talking about the Hana cloud platform. So, we still need to be the catalyst when it comes to defining what is remarkable about our technology and capability to solve business problems, but then we have to enable a massive ecosystem to innovate on top of that, to extend it, to innovate, and that's where the Hana cloud platform comes into play. We are setting the agenda, we are setting the expectation of what great looks like and then tapping into the ecosystems that we have. >> What's interesting about what you just said and Peter brought this up yesterday with the global CTO of Capgemini and your premise was, the old days, you knew the processes, but didn't know the technologies, and you automated those processes, now we know the technology and don't know the processes as their developing. So, you look at IOT, it's an unknown future, but you can kind of guess it's going to be a lot of data, it's going to be an edge of the network, so that reinforces this whole ecosystem point that the innovation will come in an unknown innovation way meaning that you can't say, "I'm going to automate that" 'cause it's not known yet, it's evolving. That to me seems to tie what you just said. Can you expand your thoughts on that because this is what everyone's chasing that's the startup mentality, that's the agile, that's the jump on a grenade, win the beachhead, grow a business, that's going to be the startups and the white space for you guys. >> Look, I'm a lousy dart player, all right, but I could win if I'm throwing a thousand darts at a target and the other guy's throwing three, that's the environment we're in with Hana cloud platform, we got massive darts to throw at the target because it changes so fast you need to have a couple things, you need to have that great ecosystem, you need to be able to innovate, and you need to be able to address volatility. Let me give you a practical example of that. If you take a look at digitization and one of the key dimensions which is how work will be done in this new digital world, we have some pretty good ideas how it's going to be done such as it's not going to be done inside of the enterprise, whether that work is a manufacturing environment or that work is knowledge management in a typical office, it's going to be increasingly mobile and these mobile workers will be connected. And the challenge there is one, how do you understand what the processes will be? We have an idea, but they're going to evolve and second, how do you enable them with real time information 'cause the mobile experience isn't just taking the desktop and putting a different form factor on it, so we take a look at the Apple and SAP announcement, what does this mean? When you hear Tim and you hear Bill discuss it, it's a step change in how these two great companies believe work will be done in the digital world. The way that we execute on that is, again, back to what I said before, we will bring the best of a consumer, user experience, with the best of a business insight experience and bring those together and if you take a look then at what is the standard of a mobile platform, it's iOS which, by the way, is severely underutilized. It's chat, it's phone, it's email. If you take a look at your iPhone and how we're using it as consumers, that's massively underutilized in an enterprise setting, same thing with business information, when you leave the office, you're leaving all that behind, SAP will bring all that, the business process, the business insight, you bring it together and you have these new native applications. >> Interesting, too, on the Apple, by the way, congratulations it's a real phenomenal announcement, super happy to see that. The other nuance there, too, is that swift programming languages is very popular among developers right now and there's also another trend in the developer community what they're calling the non-coding developer, the tools are getting so damn good now that you don't have to go to be a computer science major to write code and there's other, Python, other languages that are good on-ramps, so you have an ecosystem that has the glam of Apple and the sexiness of swift. There's all this monetization opportunities. There's a developer saying, "Hey, I have an ecosystem "I can work with, that I can ride on the back of, "to the marketplace," so it's a great avenue for someone or now business to pick a white space and dominate it, whether it's a tool or a feature, they can come in and be a feature and still be a business, you'll be saying, so could I, was, "Oh, that's a feature not a company." That was the old way, now that's the innovation coming from these entrepreneurs, that, to me, is interesting. Are you guys seeing that kind of excitement from developers and do you see the developers as the core of the ecosystem? Well, what's your thoughts on that, overall? >> We're seeing the developer community becoming a more critical part because it's not just about implementing, remember when I said we're the source of innovation and other people implement it, that the skill set of the ecosystem, now when it's innovation, the source of the innovation needs to come from the ecosystem, and that's the developing community. So, if you take a look again at this Apple announcement, the reference applications and what we're building right now because that's what we and Apple think would look great in specific industries, but then it's this SDK and the Hana cloud platform. If you take 2.5 million SAP developers and you take 12 million iOS developers, you bring 'em together, not only just to work together, but to redefine what this new developing environment is, swift, right, the best of how you design enterprise applications or commercial applications and then the third leg of this is the iOS university because these are new classes of developers and my final point is as much as we think we know how work will be done in this mobile work environment, it's going to change, it's going to change. >> IOT's important, but people are going to work together with people over distance over agendas over boundaries, that's going to change the world. Let me ask you a question. We'd asked a couple of times to some of your folks on The Cube, Is it going to possible at some point in time, I'm going to get an Apple developer who decides to enter into an enterprise space by creating a solution, have an Apple phone customer go up, pull something off the app store because it is SAP complaint, is that going to happen? >> I can envision that happening, I can envision it. It's we are the standard for a trusted enterprise partner. >> Well, think about it, so now you got a situation where you your CIO and your IT organization who wants stable, comply in SAP, and then all the folks out in the field that are doing the work, that are identifying new problems and finding software that they can apply to solve the problem and having SAP and Apple bring both of those sides together, so that the CIO can be certain that what was just grabbed works and is compliant, but also, at the same time, that person knows that this innovative thing is not going to create problems in the backend. Very, very powerful vision, loved to see that notion. >> Yeah, and I think that's what you get when you combine those two brands and those two experiences. As quickly we're innovating and moving forward, you still need to have predictability in the business and a strong core, right? It's the business continuity, so you need to be able to innovate very quickly, rapid innovation, quick failure, fast learning, that's at the edge. So, if we can enable that, but give the predictability and the stability in the business relationships, security, you bring that together, this is the new world that we're creating, calls for new developers, calls for new ecosystems, and new leadership, and that's what we and Apple bring to the equation. >> So, Pat, share the roadmap on the Apple thing, just to kind of just to take the final close, square this out in little bits. Ecosystem, I get the ecosystem, I would evision that's a great outcome. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Certified SAP apps in the Apple, I'm sure that's the plan. On the SAP side, you're going for the low hanging fruit, you mentioned that you're doing a couple of things, what's the roadmap for the sequence and the progression of SAP-Apple relationship? What are you guys bringing to the table from the core software? >> Yeah, so we've identified specific industries where the dynamics play to the favor of the dynamic at work, so they're mobile, they're standardizing already on iOS and they're connected and they need the rich enterprise information and we've identified high-values cases and those where we'll build the applications, but what we want to do-- >> John: That's a low hanging fruit for you guys. >> That's a low hanging fruit. And create that kind of references of what a great mobile experience looks like and then we're going to enable through the SDK, the ecosystem, so that's where the massive innovation is going to come from and then we'll try to figure out where this takes us. This is a series of six month sprints that we're on. >> Business sprints Love that concept. >> You know, this phrase, a couple of years ago, the speed of business, I forget which SAP soft, I remember in 2013, McDermott's phrase was "Running at the speed of business" with the mobile. Final question for you is, on the Industry Cloud, what's your plans, what's your goals, how do you see it evolving, can you share some anecdotal, you don't have to reveal any sensitive information, but the visions for how you see the Industry Cloud group that you're running, evolving over the next 12, 48 months? >> So, I see us, right now, that there's some things your core values and your core competencies shouldn't change, they should sort of leverage the environment that you're in and so, we're caring for our industry in sight, our focus on an end-to-end capability, high-values cases, and integration where it needs to be and that's what we express. So, we're going to take that and we're going to apply it to helping customers digitize on that journey. Here at Sapphire, the focus has been not on what we're announcing because ask any customer here, we have the requisite capabilities, what they want to get is busy on their journey and they want us to help them reduce uncertainty, reduce risk, and realize value. So, all the conversations here on what are we doing, industry, clear road maps, where we going? What capabilities? Second, road map on value, what value? S4, fastest launch in our history, customers, right now, are saying, "How do we double that, how do we triple that? Is by showing the business value associated with it. So that's what we're doing with industry, is showing a clear path of what great looks like, a road map on how to get there, the business values associated with it, and how working our digital business services customers, how we can help them realize that. >> And the road map is key because that clarifies the ecosystem. They understand kind of the rules of engagement. They can see the line. >> Yeah, what their overall is used. You know, it's interesting, Pat, you look around, there's 60,000 people, the amount of activity, the amount of deal making, that's going on here, it's probably the 25th largest economy in the world right here. >> Oh, it is, in Orlando, that's amazing. Yeah, I need to take a knee guys, I was just hearing about that. >> Final question and I'll let you go 'cause we got to go, we know you're tight on time, what's the coolest thing you've seen at Sapphire this week? >> Coolest thing, boy, I've been in so many meetings, I haven't seen cool. >> Peter: Other than this one. >> Oh, yeah, this is definitely a cool meeting. Oh, geez, coolest thing? >> Coolest phrase, sound bite, feedback, hallway conversation. >> What are you going to tell, in your next management meeting, what's the one thing you're going to tell 'em about Sapphire? >> I'd say that there is so much demand for us to help customers. We're not pushing, we're getting pulled. So, it's about prioritization like how do we focus on what's most important for our customers? That's such a lame answer. >> Peter: Well, but the prioritization of-- >> When you're looking for cool, but it's true. >> There's drones somewhere, I saw a beer tap that got IOT on it for-- >> I did see the guy in kind of the transformer outfit, that was pretty cool, but I'll tell you what, as we become more and more of consumer business oriented, my kids start developing a better understanding of what I actually do when I leave home. It's cool, I mean, SAP is cool. Actually, I'll tell you the one thing. The one thing I heard here from customers that either went to original Sapphires and are back after a while or coming for the first time, they can't believe how fast we're moving. They really can believe how fast we're moving. It's that speed, it's not just the pace of this conversation or the pace of the traffic around here, it's the pace of how quickly business is moving and that we're leading it. >> Pat Bakey, president of Industry Cloud, SAP, this is The Cube, I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris. Be right back, this is The Cube, SiliconANGLE's flagship program. This is The Cube, you're watching The Cube, we'll be right back. (fun, upbeat melody) >> Voiceover: There'll be millions of people in the near future that aren't allowed to be involved in their own personal well-being and wellness. Nobody wants to.

>> Voiceover: Live from Orlando, Florida. It's The Cube. Covering Sapphire Now. Headlining sponsored by SAP Hana Cloud, the leader in platform-as-a-service. With support from Console Inc., the Cloud Internet company. Now, here's your host John Furrier. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. We are here live inside The Cube and we are at Sapphire Now, the SiliconeAngle's flagship program. We go out to the events, instruct (indistinct) Want to give a shout out to our sponsors. SAP Hana Cloud Platform, Console Inc., Virtustream, and EMC and Capgemini. Thanks for your support. We really appreciate it and it allows us to get these great events and provide all this great coverage. Over 35 video interviews already up on Youtube, more coming today. Our next guest is Michael Hoch who's a senior vice president of global system immigration at Virtustream. Now an EMC company sold for 1.2 billion dollars. Originally start out in the SAP ecosystem, created so much value over a billion dollars and then exit to sold to EMC. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you very much for having me. I'm glad to be here. >> I really love the Virtustream story because to me, we've been watching the progression of Virtustream from the beginning and it really to me, shows the value of the possibility of what's going on in this ecosystem. You sold for 1.2 billion dollars and that's now come, it's out there, it's established. Cat's floating, whatnot. (Michael laughs) But it really shows that you guys started out with an SAP and then pivoted or navigated out to a business model with the Cloud. Probably a lot of value. This is a lesson for the ecosystem because this is an example where SAP didn't have functionality. What you guys were doing, really was an operating model that was underserved. Very underserved. >> Share the story of how it relates to today's ecosystem. >> Sure. So when Virtustream was founded, Cloud was sort of an anathema for the enterprise. Right? That was the time where AWS was starting to shoot off. Microsoft was just dipping their toes in the water. And what Rodney Rogers and Kevin Reed saw is the opportunity was if you could put SAP and large enterprise mission critical applications on the Cloud, that's something that could have tremendous value in the future. At the time, everybody was skeptical. Security concerns. Availability concerns. Management concerns. >> "It'll never work." >> It'll never work. >> They said that about Amazon web services too. >> A few years earlier, that would never work and now they're what? 10 billion or something. So they focused on that market segment for two reasons. One, there was a huge value if it could work and two, they knew SAP. They came from a joint which they sold eventually to Capgemini. They knew SAP and system integration. White Glove Service was critical for enterprise applications to run in the Cloud. So the company was built with a White Glove Service that we started. As well as our technology, the extreme platform, that was really designed to host IO intensive stateful apps. From there, we grew, we did well, we plowed our way through the VC era. The reason why--- >> Wow, big word. Plow. (laughs) It was a sog. >> Yeah, I had been there for over five years and there were some days but in the end, where we got to over 200 SAP production customers, EMC very interested because of the technology, as well as the White Glove Service. And that's where we, about two years ago, started opening up to SI partners. Now, we were proving that this could work. We were winning customers against them and giving in a small way, the types of hand holding that they do on day to day basis. So we started partnering with some SIs to show that they could run it as well. >> Explain that. Take a minute to explain >> Sure. the relationship that Virtustream, now EMC Virtustream, has with SIs and how they engage with you and the value that you provide. >> Sure. Sure. So, we work with SIs in a couple of different ways. So, SIs are known for high touch, high management application services generally. When it came to where's it going to be hosted? Some SIs are asset light and they say, "Well, here's your respects, go buy data centers, go buy your own servers, whatever. Once you got the hardware provisioned, we'll come in and do the application work." Other SIs built their own data centers. Capgemini runs their own data centers and they had their application management work. So you had asset heavy, asset light. In the Cloud world, we were able to come in easily to those asset light situations and now through our software can help those asset heavy companies to build a full Cloud model to support it. In an asset light model, we would provide up to the IAS, maybe OS management and the SI would handle basis, data baseboard, all of the work that they're very good at. We did what we were really good at. >> Yeah, and this a big trend. We put this up yesterday on The Cube. This asset light and if you can take a minute to describe that is the new normal for operations management on the Cloud. Because you don't want to have heavy assets, you want to be more elastic, more agile if you will. >> Agile and responsive and it ties very well into the current trend of enterprises saying, "How much of my data center do I need to keep?". We're in a hybrid world. We're going to be in a hybrid world for the next several years. So there's going to be a large portion of on premise and a large portion of off premise. How do you build a hybrid environment that's scalable where you can pay for what use in the Cloud while still making use of whatever asset you have? So, the SIs look a lot like IT. >> So if everything's asset light or no asset, say we're using the Uber for example, it backs me out to do self-driving cars. (Michael laughs) As reported today in Pittsburgh. You need a data center somewhere. I mean someone's got to have a data center. So there's no diminishing return, there's no race to zero on this asset light. Someone needs to carry the assets. >> Someone needs to carry the assets and that's where Virtustream stepped in. Five or six years ago, someone's going to need to own this but we're going to need to own it at a higher degree of efficiency and still the scalability and security. >> So, this is the issue, right? >> Yeah. >> If you're going to use data driven, you need to have a data center. But here's where I want to get your thoughts on and this ties to the global channel, A-K-A the big system integrators who are doing a lot of stuff. They're have to be nimble to customer needs so they don't have and tell me if I've got this right? They don't have the luxury to provision up a data center at the scale that need in order to get table stakes and start doing business? And that it's easier to go to say Virtustream and other Clouds possibly to get the critical mass of resource to start doing business and being agile do up in software. Did I get that right? >> Well, if we're talking about the systems integrators in particular, they have some solution already. Most of the large ones, already either have their own data centers or co-location relationships but they're very manage hosting focused. What they're trying to get to is an agile responsive way to deliver what they've already been delivering. And that's where the partnership with Capgemini, for example. Our extreme software and their data centers, they're able to use our IAS as burst capabilities or to reach regions that they can't today. That really gets them into a position of looking like a Cloud provider, even though, they're owning their own data centers. They can use us, our IAS, for regions that they're not in or to extend. But they're able to get to that very responsive manner. What Virtustream was built from from the ground up. What we've been doing for the last six and half years. They're adding to their coasting capabilities. You'll see that >> You're accelerating there with other SIs as well. >> with pre-existing stuff. Giving them the ability to go out and do some of the agile dull. >> Don't lose your current customer, put 'em in a modern world. 'Cause this is another interesting trend. You've got ISVs looking like service providers. All the ISVs want to move to a Cloud enabled something. Maybe not full sass but something and then you've got service providers that need to look more like ISVs, software solution driven. >> So everything's flipping around? So the vector's are reversing on all aspects. >> On all aspects. But either way you look at it, they still want to have a consumption based infrastructure behind it. So whether you're asset heavy where you want to convert your data center to do that or you're asset light and you need to access one like Virtustream, it's really the way that it's already tipping in the industry, it's just going to continue over the next three years. >> What's the biggest challenge for developers out there? And the ecosystem partners that you're working with? I know you mentioned your story about Virtustream, schlogging through the VC and being agile, and that's the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. When we've started companies together. I've done companies. It's the same way, highs and lows. But that culture's moving their world (laughs) It's still turbulent to these guys. It is an up and down for these guys. It's a slog at some level because they got to be agile and that's very startup-like. >> To start up, they have to be agile and what I see, even the global SIs, you're talking about billion dollar companies, multi billion dollar companies. They're getting pressured by their customers to say I want an all in one solution and I want to pay for what I use. And their business models aren't necessarily ready for that so they're having to really rethink of they're delivering, how they're innovating, and what they're bringing to their customers. Because if they don't do it that customer is going to go to somebody who does. >> Yeah, I mean the enterprise has to become more entrepreneurial. That is the only way in my opinion that you're going to see the innovation surge and that's not necessarily be entrepreneur, just be entrepreneurial. >> Right (laughs) >> It's a mindset. >> Mindset. >> And you can learn that. You got to get tough skin. >> Tough skin and taking advantage of changing business conditions, ramping down when it's a good >> Iterating. slow seizing. Iterating. This why everybody comes to Cloud. Agility being number one. They say we want to respond to changing business conditions. You're business also has to respond, it can't just be your IT. >> Alright, the age of Cloud, Michael thanks so much. Give you the final word. What's on your plans for this year? What do you got going on? What's the big highlight for Virtustream? >> Sure. So, we've been doing SAP for six years or so, we're branching out into other enterprise applications. You'll be seeing us expand our catalog. We've always been a heterogeneous Cloud but you'll see a more aggressive move into that. And you'll see the scale. We're going to be opening up new locations globally. Thanks to our parent's company EMC. >> Big, big, deep pockets. >> Big deep pockets. >> I bet to so no one gets--- >> Our customers are global. We need to get our offering out in the global market. >> Well, congratulations on the success and the acquisition and certainly being a private company. Dell Technologies, a combination of EMC and Dell, will give you a lot of room to maneuver under public scrutiny. >> I'll come back in the Fall and talk about that. (light laughter) >> Thanks so much. >> This is The Cube. Live in Orlando for SAP Sapphire. I'm John Furrier. You're watching The Cube.

>> Voiceover: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering SapphireNow. Headlines sponsored by SAP Hana Cloud, the leader in platform as a service, with support from Console, Inc., the Cloud internet company. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier, and Peter Burris. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Orlando, Florida, for SAP Sapphire coverage from SiliconANGLE Media, theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events, and extract the signal for the noise. Want to give a shout out to our sponsors, who allow us to get here, SAP Hana Cloud platform, Console, Inc., EMC, Cap Gemini, thanks for supporting us. We appreciate it. Our next guest is Mitch Kick, Global Vice President, Head of Strategy and Programs for SAP Global Ecosystem. We love strategy guys because, they get the chess board. And they look like they're always playing chess, 3-D chess. Been looking at the landscape, looking at the horse on the track. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you very much. Good to be here. >> It's an evolving ecosystem. It's fluid, but yet, active. The Apple announcement, certainly notable news for SAP. Certainly, the Cloud, mobile, social data trend, the confluence of those things, causing massive innovation surge. So you, got a lot going on. >> Absolutely. >> What is the current ecosystem? >> Well, you know, when you think about the way SAP looks at it's ecosystem, I mean certainly we have those traditional types of partners, who resell our product. But, when we talk about our global ecosystem, we're really talking about those partners who are either strategic service partners, technology partners, some emerging partners and names that you mentioned, like Apple, Uber, Facebook, some of these, they're not your grandfathers, SAP partners. And so, we're really moving to partner in new ways. To co-innovate new types of solutions, that take advantage of the trends in the digital landscape. >> John: Like what are you doing with Facebook? >> Well, Facebook is an example, it's something where we said, "Look, there's all this social data," "that's out there. How do we put that together with" "our Hybris, CEC, types of solutions," "our commerce solutions?". To basically allow marketers to do one-to-one marketing, that leverages the power of Facebook data, and your enterprise data, brings it together in a very manageable tool. >> That must've been a very hard deal, because they're very controlled about their data. And also, each person has their profile settings. So, that's awesome. >> Yeah, and it's something that allows for marketers to just do much more targeting, much more insightful targeting. You know, we announced that last year and over the course of the last year had a number of really interesting pilot examples. >> Can developers get involved in that Or is this more of SAP directly, kind of thing? >> Well that, is an example of where we are creating a solution that sort of packages it turnkey. But, you know when you think something like in Apple, the beauty of that one is, not only are we developing these beautiful industry applications, that are going to be in targeted industries, and I don't know if you saw them, they were out on the floor here. >> Yeah, impressive. >> With regard to retail, or with regard to.. >> Well start-ups will come out of the woodwork just in a short time, have hundreds of employees, with this ecosystem. >> Well, exactly. I guess the point I was making with the Apple deal, is not only are we working with to design some really incredible industry apps, but then we're also creating the software developer kit, making that into the Hana Cloud platform, so that if you're developing on Hana Cloud platform, it now becomes another compelling reason you can leverage these beautiful interfaces, and these beautiful tools, that take full advantage of native capabilities on the Apple devices. And so it's a way that our partnership not only delivers, kind of near-term solutions that matter for us, but enables our broader ecosystem of solution partners to capitalize. >> It's fastest to innovation. I mean, you're going to get more R and D, and then real production apps faster that way. >> Absolutely. >> From the developer. So that's Core. David Valente and I always talk about courses for horses, which is, you know, certain things fit certain ways. There seems to be now, with the Cloud platform, an opportunity for developers to come in. So I want you to explain how Hana fits in. 'Cause this, Hana Cloud and then this Hana Cloud platform. What's the difference between the two? Can you just quickly share what that means to the ecosystem? >> Well, Hana as a database, I mean, the thing about the Hana Cloud Platform is that, that creates platform for our solution partners to extend, and integrate, as well as build and develop on it. And you'd say, "Well, as a platform as a service," "are you guys using HCP, to go out there and win" "the past wars?" In the generic sense of the past, that's really not the intention. The intention is, we've got this huge installed base. We've got these service partners, who are working very closely with their customers to innovate on top of, so that once our customers move to that digital core of S4 Hana, they can use HCP as that extension and integration platform, to tie together a number of different things. And a lot of the things that are, you know, when you think about digital transformation, there is so much activity, and discussion around the customer experience, and architecting a beautiful customer experience, with mobile devices, with you know, targeted types of commerce on the front end. But, what people are coming to realize, I think, is the importance of having that end-to-end. Because, you aren't going to be able to deliver the beautiful experience. And so, the example with, you know I was on a panel yesterday with Uber and Tumi. As an example, Tumi, luxury retailer that wants to create, not only a compelling customer experience that embodies the best of its luxury brand, but also is facing the threat of Amazon Prime Same-Day delivery, in metropolitan areas. And the beauty is, by partnering with Uber, and SAP, we are able to incorporate that seamlessly, as an option for Same-Day delivery. They can deliver in 30 minutes, for seven dollars, it's game-changing. That's an example of where we provide, here at this event, an early window into the type of co-innovation that we are doing. It's sort of like, in the past where you'd think, "Well, SAP has a certain solution footprint," "and we're going to partner with other software companies," "who can plug-in to that footprint.". Now you have, in the new world, where there are industry ecosystems like Uber, platforms that you can capitalize on, it's the business network. You can plug-in business networks to, an overall solution to customers, that's really compelling and that delivers opportunities in ways that we couldn't have imagined a few years ago. >> I want to build on that. So, historically, strategy has been three to five years, tied to asset values, mainly fixed asset values, and how are we going to generate a return in those fixed asset, over an extended period of time. You're describing a world where, whereas especially as those assets become more programmable, they can be applied to a broader array of activities, and opportunities, where the horizon starts to shrink pretty dramatically, the strategic horizon. And it becomes more, "What capabilities do we have?", and "How do we improve those capabilities," "and drive them forward?". And that's a crucial way of thinking about partnerships, is partnerships, as capabilities. I think that's where you were going. >> Absolutely. >> Are you thinking now about partnerships in the ecosystem as crucial capabilities, not only for SAP, but for SAP customers? >> They've always been, in many ways, when you think about, customers need a whole solution. In the past, even when the on-prem software world, you didn't get the whole solution by just buying the software package, it required a lot of additional service. With the Cloud model's that are emerging, it's much more easy to consume the software functionality, but there still is a tremendous amount of on-going innovation, differentiation, customization. And that's why when you look at, a lot of where we're going with our solution, you can hear Mike Getlin talking about our success factors product, and the fact that, "Well, how do partners help us?", "Do our service partners help us in the same way" "of just implementing software?". No. There role is really in integrating and extending it, and creating micro-services on top of it, that then say, "This is a really unique capability" "that's essential for delivering value" "to this particular customer or client.". So, you're now finding that because of our ecosystem, that is getting plugged into these new ways of contributing, we can now have a broad array of contribution. People understand how they can plug-in and capitalize on that, and deliver real innovation and benefit to the end customer. >> So you look a lot at industry trends. As you walk the floor here, what trends are starting to emerge, for you, and what is getting you excited, as a strategist? >> From my standpoint, when you think about digital transformation, and honestly, we were joking a lot about this whole term, because when it first game out, it was sort of like, "I'm not familiar with anyone who's actually" "doing analogue transformation.". All IT is digital. We've been doing digital things for years. And transformation, I mean, I was involved in the early '90s and the big re-engineering wave. Right? Where you're re-engineering, using technology and what not, so what is really different here? And I think what we see, is that, through all these trends, there's sort of confluence of them, and people map out a dozen, two dozen different trends that are going to change the world, they speak breathlessly about all these things. But in the end, what difference does it really make? From my standpoint, it's really three. One is you're starting to see all these things change the customer experience, fundamentally. Right? To the real-time, mobile devices, one-to-one. That's being enabled now. You're also seeing the difference in how value is delivered, in terms of IOT, instrumenting the broader landscape, etc. And you're seeing a difference in business models, in terms of how value is captured. You can think about it as, "Well, how is value consumed?", "How is value being delivered?", "How is value being captured?". The real, so what, is that all these different individual technology trends are combining to make those differences happen, that enable completely different ways of making money, of growing of opportunity. >> It changes the analogue, where, the analogue piece used to be the transactional, digital then hands off to analogue, or vice versa. That whole thing, end-to-end you just talked about, is an end-to-end digital. But the analogue role of the person, is augmented differently. So what you said is interesting because, I think people look at it differently and say, "Hey, if it's digital end-to-end," "where does analogue fit in?". Well still, people walking around here at the show, we're face-to-face, so I think it's interesting when you look at the optimization of digital. I'll take sales leads, for instance or marketing automation. You know, get the form, pass the leads to the sales people, they go knock on the door, call, email, that's analogue transaction. That's now digital. >> Mitch: Right. >> But the still, analogue components. What's your thoughts on that? How do you look at it? 'Cause you still got to do business, the people still are going to be involved. >> That really hit home when we were talking about this Uber example, because everybody talks about Tumi, they were talking about, "Well, its a beautiful experience." for somebody to be able to then say, "I got a one-hour delivery.". We can all identify with going to a retail outlet and they say, "Oh, I'm sorry, we don't have any more" "of those in the store, but we've got one" "that's 40 minutes away, if you want to go drive there.". Well, what if now all of the sudden you can get the product in to this store, in the next 30 minutes? Or, deliver it to wherever you happen to be, in 30 minutes? That changes the game. >> John: And that's user experience. >> Yeah. But, the thing is, so that's nifty, that's great, it's really compelling. But, when you start thinking about what it would take to work this, okay? Well now, you're going to have to have an implication for those retail store people. And so, this notion of, "How are we making this" "a beautiful experience for the retail clerk?", who now, instead of just serving the store, is going to get pinged because, "Hey, wait a minute," "we've got some deliveries that you're going to have to" "pick and pack, to get ready for some Uber driver" "to come in." That's a change to them. So, when you talk about implication, that highlights all of the, "change management", all of the, "how does it make a difference" "in individuals work?", and there's always going to be that last mile engagement that is needed. And that's really when you start talking about trends, how do we see things changing, I think about our service partners, I see their role changing to enable the real business change. >> Well that's it, that's it. The impact is clear. Totally agree, 100%. It's the confluence that magnifies that change, and its massive. It's frickin' awesome. Everyone can look at it and say, "Damn, its going to be big!". My final question to you is, given that impact, what advice are you sharing with your ecosystem, in terms of how to prepare for it? How to be ready not to go out of business, or help your customers not go out of business? And enable them to actually compete, digitally, in the transformation. >> Well, when we look at it, part of the challenge is that the ecosystem is so diverse, that you know, often your guidelines are speaking to specific people. The one thing I would say is, everybody is going out and talking a digital message, we need to be on the same song sheet. So when your solution partner, or service partner, and you've got your own offerings, your own reference architecture's, et cetera, let's work together to make sure that we are all singing from the same sheet. Second thing is, it's really imperative that we, basically migrate our installed base, to the digital core. So, S4 Hana, getting enabled around that, making that change happen, that enables all sorts of other benefits. And the third thing would be, the importance of then leveraging Hana Cloud platform. Because, the integrations that were hard coded, from yesterday, are no longer valid. So, if you leverage Hana Cloud platform from integration standpoint, you're really allowing for this much more agile, and fluid, innovation cycle to happen, in a much faster clip. And that's really what our customers are going to need, and it's going to take all of us working together to deliver that promise, of digital transformation. >> Well the Apple deal puts you guys front and center, on the user experience side, consumerization of IT. The chess board, multiple dimensions of chess, going on at the SAP ecosystem. Mitch, thanks for coming on. >> Absolutely. >> Welcome to The Cube Alumni Club. This is The Cube here live at Sapphire, we'll be right back. You're watching, The Cube.

>> Voiceover: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering SAPPHIRE NOW. Headline sponsored by SAP Hana Cloud, the leader in Platform-as-a-Service. With support from Console Inc. the Cloud internet company. Now, here's your host, John Furrier. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We are here live at SAPPHIRE NOW, SAP's big user conference. This is theCube, SiliconANGLE's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signals from noise. Day three of wall-to-wall coverage, this is day three. We had awesome interviews, go to youtube.com/siliconangle and look for the playlist of SAPPHIRE NOW, it'd be great, great videos out there. We would not be here if it wasn't for our sponsors, so shout out to SAP Hana Cloud Platform, Console Inc., Console Cloud, the Interconnect Companies, for interconnecting the clouds, and, of course, EMC Capgemini, thanks for your support. Our next guest is Uddhav Gupta, who's the Global Vice President for the SAP Platform-as-a-Service. Great to see you, we'll shake hands. >> Good to see you, John. >> So, we have been so excited about Platform-as-a-Service going back, man, almost when the Clouderati started. You know, almost seven years ago, when we started SiliconANGLE. We saw pre-OpenStack, Amazon was already on a trajectory, OpenStack kind of, Rackspace kind of bootstraps that, and then the rest is history, now you have Cloud Foundry, all this stuff is coming together. So, you guys have a big part of that developer ecosystem. >> Yes, we do. >> What do you do for the platforms-of-service for SAP, and what are some of the things you're working on, what should the audience know about that you're working on. >> Absolutely, so, first of all, thank you for having me on the show. We at Hana Cloud Platform, is basically a idea that we came up with to help our customers solve the biggest problem of complicated application development. And when we spoke to the customers, the typical thing that came back to us is, I want to actually integrate applications, right? I have incipient backing systems, I have non-incipient backing systems, how to bring these two systems together? I typically build an application, a mash-up for the audience. The second scenario that we basically solve, is, a lot of customers came back and said, we want to just extend certain business processes that are running on the back end, and you know, build applications that actually sit and extend these processes. So, we started looking at all of that, we said, okay, it's very clear, that we want to simplify the core. But we also wanted to go out and provide a simplified application development stack, so that people actually go out and build these applications. And that's what Hana Cloud Platform is all about. >> So the approach is not so much come from the infrastructure of the service, but come down from the app. Okay, well Larry Ellison, at Oracle, he said as well, well, you come up from the hardware, they got SUN, and then he comes down from the top, and their middleware is Oracle, a similar approach. And that's a great message, because that's his focus, is obviously app, but they got SUN, so they can kind of clean and they can book in the middleware, if you will, or past layer. Um, how do you guys compare vis-a-vis that, because you don't have any hardware. >> Correct. >> You got partners. >> Correct. >> Um, like EMC, then you got the Vblock going back to the day. >> Exactly. >> How do you answer to that? >> So we have always been agnostic in terms of hardware, agnostic in terms of infrastructure. So the angle that we're going with is just like how we did with Hana. We said, we'll build the Hana software, and we'll have it available on multiple different platforms. We are doing the same thing with the Hana Cloud Platform. Today, we offered it off our own SAP data center. The road map is to basically partner with a number of infrastructure providers, like Amazon, like Azio, like other third-party hosting providers-- >> You'd okay the computers? >> Yeah, completely. So if you're actually looking at going ahead and deploying our software on Cloud Form Read, enabling it on OpenStack, so we can actually now take it to all of our infrastructure partners, and use them as suppliers. That way, we can actually concentrate on building a business Platform-as-a-Service layer, concentrate on building the mechanics. Building the intelligence of the Platform-as-a-Service, and leave the infrastructure game to the guys who are really good at that. Which are Amazon, Azio, and a few others. >> So, you guys have Hana, okay, Hana database as well, the platform is Hana Cloud Platform, so, back to the Oracle thing, and I bring up Oracles there, we can relate to that. They claim performance advantage, so Oracle on Oracle, with SUN, has been optimized. It's almost end-to-end stacked. You guys worried about performance at all? Can you share your thoughts on how you answer that? >> Of course, I mean, if you look at the whole team of Sapphire here, that's been about running a business life. You can't run a business life without having performance. So performance is the core of everything that we're doing. Whether it's running a database that's high-speed. Whether it's simplifying the entire application stack, the S/4Hana, running at high-speed. It's also about an innovation cycle around it that needs to also be high-speed. And when we're building the Hana Cloud Platform, we've actually look into those elements continuously, and saying, how can we help application development also run at high-performance? This is around the computer. This is around the database. This is around the tool set that we actually providing our partner ecosystem, as well as the customers, to build custom applications at really high speeds. >> Okay, talk about, um, the Hana Cloud Platform. Expand, and take a minute to explain, because, I think that, you know, seeing on the opening day, you guys aren't getting the kind of credit in the press and in the market, although you're being successful, um, as the cloud. Some people say, oh they have nothin'. Platform-as-a-service, it's just SAP ware. Answer that, explain, take a minute to explain, what you guys have done, in the market, how it's different, and then it does work for non-SAP customers. So, kind of dice that out for us, share that. Take a minute to explain that. >> Absolutely, going to Sapphire, a lot of our customers and a lot of the press, media, also thought that Hana Cloud Platform is just for SAP. Now, after two days of conversations with customers, they quickly realize, that we're not just, like, for SAP, we could actually be the Force.com or the application platform for merging data from SAP and non-SAP, right? So that's the first revelation a lot of the customers have got. I find many of the customers that had this, aha moment, when I was talking to them, and they're like, "Oh, I can actually solve a number of issues with this. "I can actually go out and provide a single "application development layer across "my entire backing system, which is SAP and non-SAP." So we've seen a lot of that reaction. >> So that's an integration game, too. And the thing I would share were the folks at my observation of theCube, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this, is that, it's not trying to win SAP end-to-end. SAP plays well wherever the customer desires it, right? So if they go to ERP, or not ERP. If you want to come and and do, say, HR stuff. And success factors. You're still going to have a little bit of SAP, but this is application layer at the Hana Cloud Platform, is for the rest of the enterprise. It's not to lock in for future SAP, right? >> It's not a lock-in story here, right? I'll give you an example. We are doing some really crazy stuff on Hana Cloud Platform, right. You know the Superbowl that took place in San Francisco. >> Of course, Superbowl 50. >> SAP had a whole fan energy zone set up there, where people were actually playing games. And we are continuously streaming data from those games into the Hana Cloud Platform, right? Now, nothing to do with SAP, nothing to do with anything that even closely SAP's associated with. It's fan data coming to the Hana Cloud Platform. And people seeing analytics on top of it, right? We're having other partners also do similar stuff. I'm talking to partners that are basically going ahead and serving the utility companies, but more on the utility to the consumers piece. With the outlying customers to basically go and create a aggregated view of the consumptions, right? And this is a look at something not what SAP's used to doing. Bringing in the Hana Cloud Platform is allowing them to do such things. >> Alright, so my final question really is around Apple. So, how does the Apple deal affect you guys in particular. Because, you guys can't hide in the shadows anymore. You got to go for- go big or go home with Hana Cloud Platform. So does that change your game in terms if you go to market, is your budget increased? I mean you got, the game is on. The Apple deal puts the pressure on you guys to take that relationship, and use it as a way to get into, obviously means for your development. Swift is a great programming language, got a lot of traction. So tell me, I mean, is it all in now? I mean Apple is Apple that, hey, you got to go for it. Go big or go home. >> Yeah, so, it's definitely go big. The other thing that we have with this whole Apple relationship that we announced, has also made a very beautiful point, if you think about it, right? There're certain applications that can be web applications that you can still render on a mobile device, sure. You can make them extremely responsive, you can do all of that kind of stuff. But the beauty of the IOS and the relationship that we built with Apple, it allows you to start now building native applications that run on the mobile, but consume all the technical services that we have, are made available in the Hana Cloud Platform. >> And the data's critical there, I mean, SAP's got ARP data, systems of record data. And now you're expanding out to other engagement data, non-SAP data by the way. >> Exactly, and all the other technology services that we're basically providing in the Hana Cloud Platform with it's content, with it's data, with it's integration, a whole bunch of stuff, right? >> So is your budget doubled? >> Well the budget is not doubled, definitely right. >> Yeah but you have to, you have to run now so it's pretty clear for you guys, right? I mean, explain, is that the mandate? I mean, because you guys have been kind of like, silent run- I say silent run, not stealth, but I mean you been, chipping away at it, it's been a ground game for SAP Hana Cloud, haven't seen a lot of stuff out there in the market. It seems to me that now, the pressure's on. So go knock it out of the park, right? >> Absolutely, the focus on basically building mobile applications, specific mobile applications, for certain industries, is definitely coming back. So a lot of investment is happening in that space for sure, from SAP, from Apple, also from our partners. So that investment is definitely happening. There's also a lot of traction that we are basically putting on marketing that uh, concept out, so that our partner, the customers also get a true pat forward and a grain in how they should actually invest their resources. >> What's you priorities this year? Education, onboarding new-- >> Our priorities this year is getting a whole bunch of developers to actually start using the Hana Cloud Platform. To that extent, what we've actually done is we've gone ahead and created open SAP courses that allows anybody to access education on Hana Cloud Platform, absolutely free. With the IOS relationship we've gone out and basically created IOS academy. A lot of people understand how to build IOS apps, with the Hana Cloud Platform, thereby bridging the 150,000 developers that are already in the Hana Cloud Platform, the two million developers of the SAP network, and the 30 million developers of the Apple world, all coming together to start building stuff on the Hana Cloud Platform. >> I'm sure you've got some internal debates, like percentage of penetration within that 35 million, I mean, not everyone's going to be interested in enterprise programming but, a good slice will look to build white spaces. >> Absolutely, because, guess what? You can only earn that much money by building consumer apps. The moment you are a developer and you really want to earn serious money, you basically start looking at building enterprise apps. >> Final final question, because I have one more, this is good conversation, uh, where are the white spaces? So the developers that are watching, or people that are interested, in innovating on SAP, where do you guys see the white spaces that are low-hanging fruit right now, that someone can get a position in here and work? >> So, there're a number of those. Uh, the very first one around building industry-specific apps, right? To a large part of the industry, UAX was our SAP gooey. But now, everybody want to actually start digitizing those processes. Nobody actually wants to go into a static screen, or a pre-defined screen. They want it to be very responsive to what they're doing at the moment. It's alive, right? So, building those apps is definitely a white space. The second big white space is around building industry content. What I mean by industry content is, a platform can basically provide you all the platform capabilities that are required. But you need a lot more of the content and the technologies services. This could be matching learning algorithms, this could be actually predictive algorithms, this could be data content that is coming in. Building and providing data as a micro-service within the platform is something that is very interesting for us. >> Thanks so much for coming on theCube, I'll give you the final word Uddhav Gupta, Global Vice President of SAP, Platform-as-a-Service. What's the vibe of the show, you mentioned, what's the hallway conversations that you're hearing. You know, what's going on with the night, certainly at night with all those events going on, last night I went to bed early, watched the Warriors game. Win by 30-something points. Night before I was out til 1:30 doing some networking to Lloyd Bardy, S. Ensher, EY, seeing all the SAP people. Lot of chatter, what are you hearing? What are you hearing in the hallways? >> The vibe is very very positive. People are starting to finally understand how we are bringing all the Cloud acquisitions that we made together. People are starting to understand that they have to move to the Cloud. So the whole thing about the myth, whether we move or do not move to the Cloud, it's now kind of settled down. People are understanding where SAP is with integration, where SAP is with moving to the Cloud. But, the beauty is, last year, same time, the questions I was getting, was is any of this real? The question that we're getting now is, how do I engage into it? How do I start doing it? So that transition's happened really beautifully. Whether you think about S/4Hana, whether you think about Hana Cloud Platform, just in general, what's happening in the past well is helping that quite a lot. >> You guys have done a good job and you've been kind of transitioning, now it's real. You got a straight-and-narrow for developers. I'm looking forward to tracking you guys and seeing the progress. Great hallway conversations, of course the biggest conversation was that Reggie Jackson was on theCube, on day one and he was awesome, also the great executives come on with great conversation. Thanks so much for sharing your insight on theCube, Hana Cloud Platform-as-a-Service. We are live here in Orlando, you're watchin' theCube.

>> Voiceover: It's theCUBE, covering SAPPHIRE NOW. Headline sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform as a service, with support from Console, Inc, the cloud internet company. Now here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Okay, we are live back here at SAPPHIRE NOW. This is SiliconANGLE Media's flagship program, theCUBE, where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise, and I want to do a shoutout to our sponsors that helped us get here and present the great content, SAP HANA Cloud Platform, Console, Inc, Capgemini, EMC, thank you very much for the sponsoring. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris. Our next guest is Rodolpho Cardenuto, who is the President of Global Channels company wide for SAP, as well as the general business, which is the SME as they talk about in the industry. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, John, thank you, Peter. Good to be here. >> So one, congratulations. We've had a lot of your folks on theCUBE and this area of the floor is buzzing with action, but real meat on the bone, as we say. It's real, it's a sizzle and the steak is here, so they had beer here yesterday, so German company, so we always like to see the Heineken beer out here. >> Peter: (mumbles) back here. (Rodolpho laughing) >> It was good to have Heineken out there, it's good, some good beer. So give us the update. I mean, you guys have had growth. Share with us and the folks watching, just from where you guys have come from, because SAP has always had a strong ecosystem. You go back to the ERP days back in the late '90s, certainly that revolution is 25 years ago when SAP came out of the woodwork and you got Oracle, all these companies were born. They had an ecosystem, they had people deploying and delivering software. It's changed now, so the dynamics are different. Talk about the dynamics and some of the growth that you guys have. >> I think it's better to position the organization, GB, as you've well said, general business, the SME space. Our ecosystem that we built historically was very focused on the enterprise to support the business suite and to support the enterprises to implement, et cetera, and now we are building in the last 10 years, we started to build a very focused, strong ecosystem, ecosystem for the SME space, that's why we're doing it, and I was just sharing with you, we just kicked off SAPPHIRE NOW last Monday with 2,000 of our partners with us, kicking off the SAPPHIRE, 2,000 of GB partners that serve this segment for us. >> So I said yesterday in the close, and I mentioned this to you, you correct me, I want to get this out there and then can clarify the record, I said that you bolt on the partner summit with the end user conference, which is a huge show, 25,000 plus, whatever the number is, massive, why everyone is here is what makes sense, and I was saying that this is being so important that you should break out your own partner event so people feel like a first-class citizen in that partner world, and you had to correct me. So share the correction that you guys do partner events, (mumbles) the big tent event, so why not have everything here for that? But you guys are doing events. Just clarify that. >> Just to give you an idea, I said we came up from the partner summit last Monday with 2,000 of our partners kicking off the SAPPHIRE NOW, but we do have a partner summit here in North America in the US. We have partner summits in Latin America. By the way, the next one is going to be in Punta Cana, (speaking Spanish) we have partner summits in Europe, APJ, Greater China, we do have a series of partner summits-- >> Do you do those partner summits in native tongue, or can theCUBE come there? >> The native tongue, that cannot, if I speak, yes. (John and Peter laughing) >> We have to get a whole new crew for theCUBE. We're looking for some hires down there, if you're watching, since now you brought that up. Okay, so let's get down and dirty. Channels are great. The leverage of channels, the leverage of the cost per order dollar for SAP, from your perspective, it's phenomenal, and that's great business, indirect sales combined with direct sales, phenomenal approach. What's changing, though? Because at the end of the day, people in the channel have an attitude of, "What's in it for me?" They're running a business. They also serve on the front lines with customers. What's changed in the channel today? Is it the same challenges, training, product? Is it different? Do you see different configurations? >> Well, it's changing a couple of things, and I'll try to summarize here, but the fundamentals are changing from on-prem to cloud, because we were, you very well said, historically an on-prem company, the fundamental of the on-prem are changing now to the fundamentals, the economics are changing from on-prem to the cloud, and the second thing is specialization. We were a company that was built on the ERP, and now we are a company as you saw here from Bill McDermott to Rob Enslin, Bernd Leukert, et cetera. We are (mumbles) HCM, Ariba, or supply manufacturer SRM, or CEC, so we have a lot of specialization. So the economics are changing for the channel as much as they are changing for us, and the specialization. You require a lot of specialization. One of the things that we are hear, listening clearly from our customers, is the specialization with integration. You saw, you'll hear from Bill McDermott and Rob Enslin and Bernd Leukert talking today about this integration, and we are doing a lot of our effort, with our channels also, to specialize, but at the same time to integrate them with SAP core. >> So there's something in application development that's been around for probably 40, 50 years called Conway's law, which suggests that the application that gets built is, or the complexity of the application that gets built is a reflection of the complexity of the organization that built it. When we talk about all enterprises of all sizes wanting simpler, faster, more integrated, more convenient, more natural to use, a lot of your partners are at the vanguard of thinking about how to make it simple because they don't have the institutional and organizational complexity to make it complex. >> Rodolpho: Yeah. >> So, is SAP learning from your partners as opposed to just your partners learning from SAP as we move into this digital world that has such a focus and emphasis on simplification? >> Peter, a great insight. I think that now only learning, we have to listen to them and react to that, because if we react in a complex way to serve our partners, they cannot serve our customers, because in the end, they're serving our customers, and as you said, they don't have the infrastructure or they cannot afford complexity, period. They cannot afford. So they need to be simple by nature, and if we are complex to serve them, they're not going to work with us. They're going to pick another one, the application and everything, so we need to build an organization that is fast and agile and is simple enough to work with our channels. I'm not saying we are there. We're not there yet. But we are in our... For instance, our theme is partners first, run light, and win together. Partners first is all about the partners. Everything that I do in my organization, all programs, products, solutions, is with the partner mentality. Is this good for the partner? Is this good with business models, simple enough for them-- >> John: It's a business partnership. >> And is it partner ready? Because if it's not partner ready, it doesn't fit my model. Run light is about the customer, and win together, it's SAP, the partner, and the customer. The customer should be comfortable enough that we are serving them with this partnership. >> Take us through some meetings internally at SAP, because that's a really great point. You got to meet the channel's requirements on how they do business, because they have a business and you have a partnership. So that means you're the favorite guy in town inside the company. Hey, here's my product. Go sell it through the channel. >> Rodolpho: Yes. (Rodolpho laughs) >> I'm oversimplifying, I'm not saying they said it, but that's the knee jerk reaction. >> That's the historical norm. >> That's a historical norm, "Hey, boom, here's the product. "Go just do some training." >> Keep her. >> But now you have to hold the line. You're the safeguard for the customer. So what are some of those conversations? Because you now have to be a forcing function to the product groups, and we've so much transformation, SAP S/4 HANA, HANA Cloud Platform, all these enabling technologies is a gold rush for the partners. So you have to hold the line. Share some internal color. You won't get in trouble. >> No, no, and I have no problem being in trouble, but I'm going to illustrate that with a simple case you just mention, S/4 HANA. S/4 HANA is the flagship of a product for the large enterprise. You saw Nestle up today with Rob Enslin. Nestle, one of the largest corporations in the world, 350,000 employees, $80 billion worth of, pretty large, pretty large by any metric, pretty large, and they use S/4 HANA. My job, and I have an organization, my organization, we package, we price, we enable, and we support the channel to sell and to support the S/4 HANA for the SME market. We are 60% of the S/4 HANAs for SAP. If you get all the S/4 HANAs, 60% goes through the channel that we manage. So, we package-- >> Peter: Is that the number of installations? >> Yeah, yeah, 60% of the S/4 HANAs today that we sold are sold through the channels that we manage in the SME, in the GB space. So that's the job. It's my job to package, to price-- >> John: You're giving money away. You're handing people money. Here, here's some business. >> It's my job to package, to price, to enable the channel, and to support the channel, to actually make S/4 HANA available for the GB space. So that's what we do. So we do that two folds. Of course, I have an organization to do that and I have it also to educate the other organizations. As you said, "Oh, here's my product. "It's perfect for SME. "Go and sell." Okay, let's have a conversation. Let's package, let's price-- >> Is the channel ready? >> Exactly. >> So run light, that means it's got to be turnkey. >> Yeah, we call it the package, price, enable, and support, because you need a different package, it needs to be much more simpler than the enterprise. You cannot go to a Chinese menu for the GBs, so it has to be templates. Price, very specific price for the GB. It needs to enable the channels. Who's going to enable the channel? Technically, pre-sale, sales, et cetera. And we need to support a channel once they sell or during the process. This is my organization, that's why I educate the other organizations. >> So there is not a company on the planet that has mastered the fine art of reaching-- >> Other than us? >> Other than you. Well, you said you got more work to do. (Rodolpho laughs) There's not a company on the planet, you're getting closer, that has mastered the fine art of reaching the general business population of companies. Increasingly also, as we move more into digital business, your biggest customers want to use software in digital interfaces and technologies to reach their small, medium sized business customers. Are they coming to you and saying, "How can we start bringing your platform, "your go-to business, and coupled with our SAP back end "to facilitate the process of helping to reach..." In other words, are you going to be able to catalyze a global change in the approach to reaching small businesses because of the SAP platform? >> Well, I don't know if we can do that, but I think it's a good vision for us to pursue, Peter. We do have an organization that has inside sales, digital sales, social sales, we use social to reach out to our customers. We use digital to reach out to our customer who have feet on the street, direct sales. We have our 12, today, I think 13,000 partners, ecosystems that reach also to our customers, and they are divided by territory, by industry, by solution, so we can map, get the world and map it by territory, by solution, by industry, the partners that we have, and we use a lot of our new methodologies and our social sales, digital sales, a lot of things. So we are building the infrastructure to support any kind of the products from SAP. We are very well serving them support for you, for the market, from SAP, so we have a lot to digest. >> So one of the things, we talked about, a lot of channel partners, SIs down to the ISVs-- >> Resellers. >> DABs, VARs, as you call, and we hear the following from them. I want to get your take on this and how you're addressing this. "We want a partner that's going to be with us "from cradle to grave, through the life cycle "with our partnerships," the things you said. The other thing that was interesting was, "We want to increase our gross profit," and services is 100% gross profit, so me as the partner, I make money on professional services, whether that's quick fix in the old days or architecting clouds, integration, so that's a big part of their revenue. So they want to make money, that's code word for money. So how will you guys shift in the economics to enable the partners to wrap their own unique services. It certainly makes sense in foreign markets, but across the globe, that's a big challenge. How are you rolling out for them, at the same time, bringing the big accounts to them? So how are you enabling me to wrap my services around them? >> And that's (mumbles) going back to your point or to your first question when I said the economics are changing, so we need to follow up the new economics. The channels, as you said, they make a good part of their business is about implementation. Once you go to the cloud, though, this part of the business reduces by one third, because in the cloud, you have less of a share of this service. So the service share is reduced by one third. So what you need to do is to compensate that with what we call an ARR, annual recurrent revenue, from the cloud. So we are building business model, and I launched that last Monday, our cloud business partner new business model, which is give the partners a ARR, annual recurrent revenue, because service is good because it's recurrent revenue. Once you sign a service SLA, a service contract, you don't have anything, but you have a recurrent revenue with that, but this is going to be reducing in a cloud, so we will compensate that, and that's the idea-- >> So you're shifting the dollars into the same consumption model, the cloud, with some sort of subscription-like or recurring revenue model. >> I'm willing to cut a share of my revenue with my partners, from the cloud. >> Well, you might be able to get it back longer term, but it's that up front. >> Yes, yes. >> Peter: So typically you sell up front, you pay for the sales guy up front, and a lot of these partners say, "I can afford to wait for the--" >> Now it's more of a recurrent revenue battle, so I'm willing to get a share of that to split that with my partner for more business. >> So you're financing their business model transition? >> Rodolpho: That's it, yeah. Transition, that's the word. >> Their fear that this transition, because they're on paper, they're getting cut, so they have to have an immediate pop, change, so you're financing that over the long term for the relationship. >> Well we are willing to have this conversation, and the new business models that we are developing, and we introduce it here, they actually address that in a very, very programmatic way. It's not a one-by-one, it's not opportunistic, and by the way, you said the channels, we are getting channels, we have only 15% of our business from the channel. My business, only 15% is opportunistic, that you come with a transaction, 85% is predictable. 85% is loyal, it's about loyalty. >> Great base. >> Exactly, I want to invest in the channels that are here for the long run. >> Peter: So it will support that business model transition? >> Yes, yes. >> So that's a good loyal base, so they probably give you very candid feedback. >> Yes, please. >> What did they say, no they do, if you have a loyal base, they'll tell you the truth, right? What are they saying? What's the feedback on the new business model? What are some of the examples? >> After I presented on stage and we had the conversation, I had, as you can imagine, a dozen conversations with specific partners that are willing to adopt and sign off. It's just for us to start to roll out, of course, to roll out the new business models you need to think about countries, a lot of the other specifics, but we expect in the next six month to have the whole world covered. >> That's great, and you have the events coming. Thanks for clarifying that. Well, we really appreciate (mumbles), coming on theCUBE and sharing your insights. >> Thank you. >> You're very dynamic, and great guest to come on theCUBE, certainly, we'd love to have you again, and if you need us down in the other summits, let us know. >> Rodolpho: It would be my pleasure, thank you. >> We'd be happy to bring theCUBE. Channel is big, the ecosystem is a competitive advantage, and you guys are looking good as they off the T. This is theCUBE here, live in Orlando. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris. You're watching theCUBE. We'll be right back. 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>> Voiceover: From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. (upbeat music) Covering Sapphire Now. Headlines sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform as a service, with support from Console, Inc., the cloud internet company. Now, here's your host, Peter Burris. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Peter Burris, and theCUBE is, once again, our flagship platform for bringing what's happening in big events to the community. Today, we're here at SAP Sapphire and I'm being joined by Tom Roberts, who's the Global Vice President of Third-Party Software Solutions. Tom, we're going to spend some time talkin' about how you're working with the ecosystem at SAP to fill in some of those crucial gaps that customers face as they try to create those new outcomes with SAP-related technologies. Tell us a little bit about what your team does. >> Great, Peter, and thanks, appreciate you havin' us here. You know, Peter, one of the key things that Third-Party Solutions does, and what my team does, is we really help complete the solution. Right? So, it's a complex world. We've got customers out there trying to solve some very challenging problems and, of course, SAP brings the bulk of the solution there, but there's going to be some gaps. We've created unique relationships in our ecosystems in order to help fill that and deliver a complete solution. So, for example, you'll hear the name out in the marketplace, Solution Extensions, and that's our external branding. These are solutions that SAP sells on its paper, that have been tested and are supported by SAP, same as our own products, so the customer can buy with confidence and help get that total solution in place. >> So, it's your almost SAP-compliant additional software. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Excellent. That's a really interesting perspective. You know, it's interesting. Over the course of our two days here at Sapphire, and we'll be here tomorrow as well, two things have popped out that are a little bit different from SAP. First off, the tension between whether or not SAP was an applications company or platform company seems to have totally gone away. >> Yes. >> You're a platform company. >> That's correct. >> The second thing that I find very interesting is that SAP has always been the company that kind of, was a little bit more neutral, stood back. When a customer needed us, we'll show up and we'll do it. You're now being a little bit more aggressive about going after business, after some other companies' customers. How are you utilizing this extensions approach to more rapidly create a solutions fabric that can bring, that can rapidly grab new customers for SAP, and your partners? >> Well, Peter, you're right on the money. You know, it's no doubt that the industry has moved rapidly to the cloud. In fact, everybody said it would happen faster and it's happened even faster than they said it would. Everyone is, when they see results, they're always surprised, and cloud growth was even faster than we thought it would be. Now, what a lot of people haven't figured out, but I think SAP has, is that, in a cloud-based solution world, the expectation is that, one, it's seamlessly integrated, and, two, the experience of buying it is seamlessly integrated, and, three, it's supported in a seamlessly integrated way and that's what Solution Extensions delivers in the cloud. So, you take an example of the success we've had with the acquisition of SuccessFactors, growing great, growin' well in the industry, but they have a lot of needs in order to mature the solution and meet the customer's entire wishlist. One example that we use is we've got a relationship with WorkForce Software for time and attendance, so it wasn't something that SAP developed, but it's something that the customers needed and provides high ROI. But, if you go and you look at that solution, you'll look and see that it's directly embedded inside employee central, right on the drop down, so, for the customers, a completely seamless experience, and they can buy that from their SAP account executive. >> So, SAP is installed in a lot of companies, 300 thousand across all industries. >> Right. >> As we move to a digital world, a lot of your customers, a lot of your SAP customers themselves, are starting to envision how software becomes part of their delivery mechanism. >> Right. >> And they're looking at the customers that they serve and saying, I wonder if I can use this software better. Are you startin' to see non-traditional software companies starting to come to you and saying, how can we be part of this program so that we can plug into, or we can enhance, that broad set of solutions for our customers. >> Right. So, look at, everyone likes to talk about Internet of Things, right? So you take a historical business that's asset heavy and, by that I mean, think of like an oil and gas company. You know, traditionally the guys would work out in the field and they didn't carry devices with them. They carried wrenches, (giggles), right? They didn't carry mobile devices that were digitally connected. >> And flasks. (laughter) >> Sometimes. I hope not too often. That's a dangerous line of work. But, if you think about it, now that's changed. Right? They now use the Internet of Things not only to get information back from the field, but they also use it so that when they have to go out and do those repairs, they're getting digital assets that they can see. Now, we have created some relationships, and I'll give you two examples. You'll hear about a relationship that SAP has with OSIsoft, right. They have a well-known reputation for being able to draw that information off Internet of Things, and we've created a link between that and the HANA platform. So that now, you can do that analysis in real-time, because, as you know, HANA is made for the real-time and, if you're going to do Internet of Things, that's the only platform you can really go with. You can't go with, it's not the old batch then analyze later; you need that information happening in real time. That's one example. The other example that I'll give you is you'll see here a Sapphire, you'll see a company called, Utopia. You say, well, alright, I've never heard of this company but they do a unique thing. It's a direct add in into he SAP platform, a solution extension, that allows you to do master data governance around your enterprise assets. And you say, wow, that sounds really complicated. Okay, what is that? This is the ability to look at those documents in a digital way while you're out in the field to understand hey, that bolt there, that needs to be made out of steel, not aluminum, or you're going to have a chemical reaction, for example. That's the kind of thing that can safe lives, save time, and also make the job out in the field easier. And you can't do that just with SAP's software by itself, we need the partners to contribute into that ecosystem and bring that richness there. >> You talked about the rapid adoption of the cloud, in many respects, almost surprising adoption of the cloud. 'Cause you're right, we all knew it was going to happen, many of us didn't necessarily know how fast it was going to be. SAP has a very on-premise and a lot of the programs that SAP put together were initially optimized for that on-premise orientation. >> That's right. >> Are your clients today, when they become part of the SAP extension, or the Solutions Extension program, are they automatically part of both worlds? First off, let me start there. >> Yeah, I mean, it's true that we live in a hybrid world already today. Hybrid happens so quickly. You saw SAP move aggressively forward and acquire some leading cloud companies. >> Yep. >> Right. (mumbles) >> And you did a great job of integrating them, by the way. >> Thank you. I think we did. And I'm really impressed with these properties. I think you saw in the keynote yesterday, a really great representation of some of the leaders of those businesses up there and how tightly they've become part of the SAP family. Now, when you look at Solution Extensions, it mirrors that. We have solutions across all five of the major pillars of the business which, of course, include these cloud properties, and the areas we're seeing the fastest growth, or the most rapid adoption, are in these cloud properties. Because we all went through the era of the best-of-breed became the suite, and then we had the era of the cloud. And if you noticed, when the cloud companies were launched, they were best-of-breed companies and now we're in that period where people want things to move back to the suite because they want integration. >> Or a least at a platform level. >> Sure, because they want efficiency. Efficiency comes from that integration and they get the first round of benefits by moving to the new application in the cloud and they get out of the business of having to operate it themselves. But, then, they want to get back to the business of having that seamlessly integrated with their core operations. So, we live in a hybrid world today but it's clear that the pendulum is moving directly to cloud. >> So are you suggesting to companies that want to be part of the extensions program, that they focus on the cloud first and then everything else second? >> Yes, I would, and here's why. All conversations with customers start with cloud. And they'll look to see if they can do something in the cloud first and it's the default. So, we've really moved past that world where the first conversation's around on-prem and then look to cloud. That changed maybe two to three years ago and today, every conversation starts with the cloud. >> So, I want to go back to that notion of non-traditional software companies creating solutions within the SAP ecosystem for their customers. Do you have companies like that in the extensions program today? >> Well, I think many of these companies are evolving, just like SAP. Now, I tend to deal with the ISVs, so I tend to deal with companies that are in the business of that. But, I will tell you this, what we're seeing with HANA Cloud Platform is exactly what you're talking about. It's that intersection of SAP, our ISV ecosystem, and those non-traditional customers that are, themselves, moving into the digital, and it's that intersection, and you'll see that happen on HCP, where they'll develop applications unique to their own business. I like to remind people this, when we first rolled out our three and then we went to the business suite, companies wrote billions of lines of custom ABAP code to get that system the way they wanted it, in each of these individual companies. Well, as we move to S4, companies are going to revisit what they did to make those systems special and perform just the way they want it to. But they're not going to do that in ABAP, likely. They're likely they're going to do that on HCP, and they're going to build in that platform because that's where they're going to get the integration, that's where they're going to get the benefit of where our ISV ecosystem is headed and tap into the richness of that. So, I think this is why you hear this rebirth of innovation at SAP and it's because it's driven by the customers. That's why we have so many people turn out at Sapphire this week, so much so that even the SAP employees are like, wow, this is really an impressive turnout. >> It's 60,000 plus people, it's one of the most, without question, this is one of most energetic and packed trade shows that I've ever been to. Or customer shows I've ever been to. >> Yes, it's impressive. We're lookin' around here right now and you just, all these, just, bodies. It's incredible. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, if I envision the next couple of years for you, every, we had a partner on yesterday, in fact, and we asked him a couple of pointed questions, as we're asking you, and we asked him, what do you want to see from SAP, as a partner? What would make SAP an even better partner so that you would be that much more willing to tie into the ecosystem? And what they said was, we want to see better road maps to, so that we can see how, where our responsibilities and SAP's responsibilities, our roles and SAP's roles, end. We're still concerned about the platform mentality rolling us. How are you assuaging those ISV concerns about your roadmap as you try to bring even more integrated value into the platform? >> You know, SAP has a brand of trust. And, when you get to road maps, you have to have trust with your partners- who's going to do what. Very clear and transparent conversations. I've seen a lot of maturity from SAP really in the last six to eight months being much more diligent in how they're planning their road maps and how they're involving partners in those road maps. I'll give you an example. You know, Wieland Schriener, who really leads some of the development around S4, in particular, as it relates to initiative that we work on with open text. That's one of our largest partners inside Solution Extensions. We have, right now, about 19 million users who have purchased that through SAP so, really, an incredible relationship, unique in the industry, that we have with them. As they, as we launch S4 and as we push it out into the marketplace, we've seamlessly integrated the open-text capabilities around unstructured content into S4. And, that's happened through the leadership of our development team. By making commitments like that. Weiland presented that on the partner summit on Monday to all the partners in there, really as a message out to them to say, this is how SAP is going to do business in the future with our ISVs and our partners. And it, and we're moving at such a pace it requires that level of coordination. Right? We can't just let it to chance. Or, we can't let it be ambiguous. We have to be clear about we're going to build this and we're expecting our partners to step up here, so that that dance happens the way it should happen. I do respect though, that the partners have that concern, 'cause it's a legacy. >> They're always going to have the concern, but a big piece of it is going to be how well do you share and how well do you work together. >> Yeah. >> Hey, Tom, thank you very much. Tom Roberts, Global Vice President, SAP Solutions Extension program. Thank you very much for being here as part of this great show, talkin' about partnerships and the evolution of the SAP platform and SAP the company. This is theCUBE, we're going to be back shortly with more from Sapphire. (upbeat music) (slow tempo music) >> Voiceover: There'll be millions of people in the near future that are, want to be involved in their own personal well-being and in wellness. Nobody--

>> Voiceover: It's theCUBE covering Sapphire Now. Headlines sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform as a service. With support from Console Inc., the cloud internet company. Now, here are your hosts: John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. We are here live in Orlando, Florida, for exclusive coverage of SAP Sapphire Now. This is theCUBE's SiliconANGLE's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, Peter Burris. I want to thank our sponsors for allowing us to get down here, SAP HANA Cloud Platform, Console Inc., Capgemini, and EMC, thanks so much for supporting us. Our next guest is Ifran Khan, who is the SVP General Manager of digital enterprise platforms which includes HANA, end-to-end. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> John: Good to see you. >> Lovely to be back here again. >> John: So, you know theCUBE history. We go way back, we've done pretty much every Hadoop World up until 2013, now we have an event the same day, week Estrada, New York, NSV, and we've been to every Sapphire since 2010 except for 2014, 2015. We had a little conflict of events, but it's been great. It's been big data. I remember Bill McDermott got up there when HANA was announced, kind of, or pre-built before Hadoop hit. So, you had HANA coming out of the oven, Hadoop hits the scene, Hadoop gets all the press, HANA's now rolling, so then you roll forward to four more years, we're here. What's your take on this, because it's been an interesting shift. Hadoop, some are saying, is hard to use, total costs of ownership. Now, HANA's rising, Hadoop is sliding. That's my opinion, but what's your opinion? >> Well, that's a well, sort of, summarized history lesson there, so to speak. Well, firstly, great to be on theCUBE again. It's always lovely to see you gentlemen here, you do a wonderful job. What I'd perhaps just highlight is maybe some of they key milestones that I've observed over the last four or five years. Ironically, 2010 when I arrived at SAP, when the entire, sort of if you like, trajectory of HANA started going in that direction, and Hadoop was sort of there, but it was maybe petering out a little bit because it was the unknown, the uncertainty of scale in whether or not this is going to be only batch or whether it's going to ever become real-time. So, I would maybe make the two or three milestones from the SAP side. HANA started off as a disruptive technology, which was perhaps conceived as being a response to a lot of internal challenges that we were running into using the systems of record of yester-era. They were incapable of dealing with SAP applications, incapable of giving us what we now refer to as a digital core, and that were incapable of giving our customers truly what they needed. As a response, HANA was introduced into the market, but it wasn't limited in scope to the, if you like the historical baggage of the relational era, or even the Hadoop era, so to speak. It was completely new imagined technologies built around in-memory computing, a columnar architecture, and therefore it gave us an opportunity to project ultimately what we could achieve with this as a foundation. So, HANA came into the market focusing on analytics to start with, going full circle into being able to do transactionality, as well, and where we are today? I think Hadoop is now being recognized, I would say probably as a de facto data operating system. So, HDFS is a very significant sort of extension to most IT organizations, but it's still lacking the compute capabilities. This is what's given their eyes a spark, and of course with HANA, HANA isn't, within itself, a very significant computing engine. >> John: And Vora. And Vora a-- >> Ifran: Of course, and Vora, as well. Now you're finishing off my sentences. Thank you. >> (laughs) This is what theCUBE is all about, we got a good cadence going here. Alright, so but now the challenge. HANA's also, by the way, was super fast when it came out, but then it didn't really fire in my opinion. It's swim-lane. It seems now, it's so clear that the fruit is coming off the tree, now. You're seeing it blossom beautifully. You got S/4 HANA, you got the core... Explain that because people get confused. Am I buying HANA Cloud, am I buying HANA Cloud Platform? Share how this is all segmented to the buyer, to the customer, to the customer. >> Sure, I mean firstly, SAP applications need to have a system of record. HANA is a system of record. It has a database capability, but ultimately HANA is not just a database. It's an entire platform with integration, and application services, and, of course, with data services. Now, as a consequence, when we talk about the HANA Cloud Platform, this is taking HANA as a core technology, as a platform, embedding it inside of a cloud deployment environment called a HANA Cloud Platform. It gives on opportunity where customers are perhaps implementing on premise S/4, or even in a public S/4 instance, an opportunity to extend those applications as perhaps they may need or require to do so for their business requirements. So, in layman's terms, you have a system of record requirement with SAP applications, that is HANA. It is only HANA now in the case of S/4. And in order to extend the application as customers want to customize those applications, there is one definitive extension venue, and that's called the HANA Cloud Platform. >> John: And that mainly is for developers, too. I call it the developer cloud, for lack of a better description or a more generic one. That's the cloud foundry. Basically the platform is a service that is actually bolting on, I guess a developer on-ramp, if you will. Is that a safe way to look at it? >> Ifran: Yeah, I mean I think the developer interaction point with SAP now certainly becomes HCP, but it also is a significant ecosystem enabler, as well. Only last week, or week-before-last in fact, we announced the relationship with Apple, which is a phenomenal extension of what we do with business applications, and HCP is the definitive venue for the Apple relationship in effect. >> So, tell us a little bit about borrowing or building upon that. What is increasingly... How should an executive, when I think about digitalization, how should they think about it? Is this something that is a new set of channels, or the ability to reach new customers, or is there something for fundamental going on here? Is it really about trying to translate more of your business into data in a way that it's accessible so it can be put to use and put to work in more and different ways? >> Sure, it's a great question. So, what is digitalization? Well, firstly, it's not new. I mean, SAP didn't invent digitalization, but I think we know a fair bit about where digitalization is going to take many businesses in the next three to five years. So, I would say that there's five prevailing trends that are fueling the need to go digital. The first thing is about hyperconnectivity. If we understand that data and information is not only just consumed, it's created in a variety of places, and geographically just about anywhere now is connected. I mean, in fact, I read one statistic that 90 percent of the world's inhabitable land masses have either cellular or wireless reception. So, truly, we're hyperconnected. The second thing is about the scale of the cloud, right? The cloud gives us compute, not just on the desktop, but anywhere; and by definition of anywhere, we're saying if you have a smart appliance at an edge, that is, in fact, supercomputing because it gives you an extension to be able to get to any compute device. And then you've got cloud, and on top of which, you have cyber-security, and a variety of other things like IOT. These things are all fueling the need to become digitally aware enterprises, and what's ultimately happening is that business transformation is happening because somebody without any premises, without any assets, comes along and disrupts a business. In fact, one study from Capgemini and, of course, from MIT back in 2013, was revealing that in the year 2,000 and 20, 2020 rather, out of the SMP 500, approximately 40 percent of the businesses are going to cease to exist. For the simple reason, those business transformations that are going on disrupting their classical business models are going to change the way that they operate. So, I would just, in a concatenated way of answering your question, digital transformation at the executive level is about, not just surviving, it's about thriving. It's about taking advantage of the digital trends. It's about making sure that, as you reinvent your businesses, you're not just looking at what you do today. You're always looking at that as a line that's been deprecated. What are you going to do in addition to that? That's where your growth is going to come from, and SAP's all about helping customers become digitally aware and transform their organizations. >> Paul: So, you're having conversations with customers all the time about the evolution of data management technologies, and your argument being is that HANA is more advanced, a columnar database in memory, speed, more complexity in the IO, all kinds of wonderful things that it makes possible can then be reflected in more complex, or more rich, value creating applications. But, the data is often undervalued. >> Ifran: Of course. >> The data itself. We haven't figured out how to look at that data, and start treating it literally as capital. We talk about a business problem, we talk about how much money we want to put there, how much people we want to put there, but we don't yet talk about how much data is going to be required either to go there and make it work, or that we're going to capture out of it. How are you working with customers to think that problem through? Are they thinking it through differently in your experience? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So, firstly, if I was to look at their value association with data, we can borrow from the airline industry perhaps as an analogy. If you look at data, it's very equivalent to passengers. The businesses that we typically operate on are working on first and business class data. They've actually made significant investments around how to securely store, access, process, manage all of this business class and first class data. But, there's an economy class of data which is significant and very pervasive, and if you look at it from the airline's point of view, an economy class individual passenger doesn't really equate to an awful lot, but if you aggregate all the economy class passengers, it's significant. It's actually more than your business and first class revenue, so to speak. So, consequently, large organizations have to start looking at data, monetizing the data, and not ignoring all of the noise signals that come out of the sensors, out of the various machinery, and making sure that they can aggregate that data, and build context around it. So, we have to start thinking along those ways. >> John: Yes, I love that analogy, so good. But, let's take that one step further. I want to make sure I go on the right plane, right? So, one, that's the data aware. So, digital assets is the data, so evaluation techniques come into play, but having a horizontally traversal data plane really, in real time, is a big thing because, not only do I go through security, put my shoes through, my laptop out, that's just IT. The plane is where the action is. I want to be on the right plane. That's making data aware, the alchemy behind it, that's the trick. What's your thoughts on that because this is a cutting area. You hear AI ontolgies and stuff going on there now, machine learning, certainly. Surely not advancing to the point where it's really working yet. It's getting there, but what's your thoughts on all this? >> Yeah, so I think the vehicle that you're referring to, whether it's a plane or whatever the mode of transportation is, at a metaphor level, we have to understand that there is a value in association with making decisions at the right time when you have all the information that you need, and by definition, we have created a culture in IT where we segregate data. We create this almost two swim lane approach. This is my now data, this is my transactional data, and here's my data that will then feed into some other environment, and I may look to analyze it after the event. Now, getting back to the HANA philosophy from day one, it was about creating a simplified model where you can do live analytics on transactional data. This is a big, significant shift. So, using your aircraft analogy, as I'm on there, I don't want to suddenly worry about I didn't pick up my magazine from Duty Free or whatever, from the newspaper stand. I've got no content now, I can't do anything. Alright, for the next nine hours, I'm on a plane now and I've got nothing to do. I've got no internet, I've got no connectivity. The idea is that you want to have all of the right information readily available and make real time decisions. That calls for simplified architectures all about HANA. >> We're getting the signal here. I know you're super busy. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. I want to get one final question in. What's your vision around your plans? I'll say it's cutting-edge, you get a great area, ecosystem's developing nicely. What's your goals for the next year? What are you looking to do? What are your key KPI's? What are you trying to knock down this year? What's your plans? >> I mean, first and foremost, we've spent an awful lot of time talking about SAP transformations and around SAP customer landscape transformations. S/4 is all about that. That is a digital core. The translation of digital core to SAP should not be inhibiting other customers who don't have an SAP transaction or application foundation. We want to be able to take SAP to every single platform usage out there and most customers will have a need for HANA-like technology. So, the top of my agenda is let's increase the full use requirements and actual value of HANA, and we're seeing an awful lot of traction there. The second thing is, we're now driving towards the cloud. HCP is the definitive venue not just for the ecosystem, for the developer and also for the traditional SAP customers, and we're going to be promoting an awful lot more exciting relationships, and I'd love to be able to speak to you again in the future about how the evolution is taking place. >> John: We wish we had more time. You're a super guest, great insight. Thank you for sharing the data here >> Ifran: Thank you for having me. >> John: On theCUBE. We'll be right back with more live coverage here inside the cube at Sapphire Now. You're watching theCUBE. (techno music) (calm music) >> Voiceover: There'll be millions of people in the near future that want to be involved in their own personal well-being and well--

live from Orlando Florida it's the kue covering sapphire now headline sponsored by ASAP Hana cloud the leader in platform-as-a-service with support from console Inc the cloud internet company now here's your host John furrier hey welcome back and we are here live in sapphire now in orlando florida this is the cube silicon angles flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal noise want to thank our sponsors SI p HANA cloud platform and console inc at consoled cloud our next guest is an eel cebu vp of business development at fred balboni who is the GM of IBM here on the cube together SI p time you book them back of the cube good to see you guys like when is down so microsoft's up on stage ibm's here with SI p this is the old sav no real change of the game in terms of you guys have been multi-vendor very partnering very eco system driven but yet the game is changing very rapidly in this ecosystem of multi partnering with joint solutions i mean even apple your announcement earlier so is this kind of like a bunch of Barney deals as we used to say in the old days or what is the new relationship dynamic because data is the new currency it's the new oil it's the digital capital data is capital data is a digital asset partnerships are critical talk about this dynamic partnerships are critical and I think what we're doing is we are going deeper than we've ever gone with these partnerships with IBM we announced last month we announced the joint ASAP IBM partnership for digital transformation what does this do so what we've been doing traditionally with IBM we've had siloed partnerships with different IBM brands right we had a partnership with a power brand we had a partnership with the cloud team we are a partnership with GBS what we've done now with the digital transformation is bringing it all together so we have a CEO level discussion that's driven this partnership and I think that's really the differentiation so we have moved away from the so-called Barney deals because our customers expect bill talked about it in the keynote today he says when it's a multi partner situation customers expect that you're going to have one voice you're going to be a line you're going to provide value to those customers that's what we're trying to do and that's what this partnership is all right I want to get your thoughts on this I mean I'm Barnum's reference to the character you know I love you you love me kind of like a statement of mission but really not walking the talk so to speak but but I want to get your thoughts because you have a look at the analytics background at IBM when you built that business up there's a conflict in a way but it's also a great thing in the market apps are changing in very workload specific at the edge with its IOT or a mobile or whatever digital app they have to be unique they have to have data they got to be they have to be somewhat siloed but yet the trend is to break down the silos for the customer so how do you guys is it the data that does that because you guys doing a lot of work in this year you want to build great apps and be highly differentiated yet no silos how do you make that ok so it is its first of all it's very exciting and a confronting but also exciting for not only our companies but also for our customers it's all enabled really simply because of a couple of major technology shifts that have happened number one technology shift is the cloud the cloud without question is driving driving all of this in addition to your notion about data readily available data and the algorithms and software that can you know make cognitive sense of that is both driving of this whole change last but not least and I think Hana really enables this you know embodies this is the architectural change so you put those three things together availability of data cloud which means the capital investment required to build the infrastructure is inexpensive and then finally Hana which is the technology platform that rapidly allows you to take using you know a generic term api's and wire them to different sources allow you to dynamically reconfigure businesses now there's one last thing I think is really important here that we don't want to underplay and this is the social phenomena of the consumerization of IT and this has been going on for many many years but we've really seen it accelerate in the last 3 to 4 100 ala dated yeah absolutely and when you see a device like this becomes the system of engagement and oh by the way if you don't like if you don't like dark skies weather app well then go to the weather channel's weather app and if you don't like their weather I've go to one of 40 other weather apps so therefore this consumerization of IT is bombarding our CIOs what's exciting is that cloud cognitive insight a flexible core with great social engagement allows a CIO to really rapidly reconfigure so that's why these partnerships are rising that's very important you just said to about this relationship now about consumerization of IT is a complete game changer on the enterprise software business because now the relationship to the suppliers I'm the CXO or CIO I had a traditional siloed as you use that word earlier relationship with my my vendors one pane of glass like that IT Service Management down here I got the operations I up changed my appt every six months or six years the cadence of interaction was very inside the firewall absolutely so the relationship has changed with the suppliers expand on that because that really hits a whole nother thread I'm the buyer i don't want complexity you don't and what you do want is time to value so combining that with the beautiful user experience that you know thanks to devices like the one that Fred showed you know are an absolute necessity they it's it's understood now it's an expectation that customers have and customers of customers also have so i think that is impacted us in multiple ways what you heard and build scheme out you heard that with our supplier Network you heard our president for ASAP Arriba Alex talk about it he is that the change within that organization itself with our different vendors with the fact that we have to provide choice to our customers i think that is that has changed the way we do business and it's interesting to just I mean this is right now a moment in history as a flashpoint not that's a big of event but it's been seeing this trend happening over the hundreds of cube events that we've been to over the past few years is that now in just today highlights it the Giants of tech are here ASAP IBM or I mean Microsoft Office state's atty Nutella the apple announcement you guys have a similar deal with Apple these are the Giants okay working together now iBM has bluemix you have HANA cloud platform you have on a cloud everyone's got cloud so this kind of highlights that it's not a one cloud world absolutely and so this really kind of changes the game so I got to ask you given all that how do you guys talk to the ecosystem because they're our total transistors going on at capgemini Accenture pwc CSC it's an outside-in dynamic now how is that change for you guys as you guys go to market together in a variety of things in a coop efficient some faces how does that dynamic change with it for the partners that have to implement this stuff so co-op edition is is a reality i think we've asap we've learnt this probably from a partner that does the best which is IBM they probably they practically invented cooperation in the enterprise software space so i think here's how here's the way we look at it right so so we are looking at with with hana with HANA cloud platform we're really morphing into a platform and applications company and and we have the strategy of essentially later thousand apps blue so what are we doing on HANA cloud platform in such a short time so we have two about 2600 plus customers we have I think the more important part is that our ecosystem around HANA cloud platform is 400 + partners so that's an advantage visa V say Oracle for instance which is waves to have an ecosystem they lot of people there too I think I think the DNA of SI p isn't being an open company we've had that for ages so we work closely with Barton's and by the way I used to be at Oracle I was there for seven years and I know the difference its it's stuck Oracle's got a different strategy we've got a very very different very open strategy so I think what we're doing is we coalescing around these key assets right our digital Korres for Hana Hana cloud platform as the key platform for our customers okay so a nice watching out there and looking out over the next year so what execution successes do you put out there that's a to prove that you guys are are open and you guys are doing good deals what success kpi's key indicators would you say look for the following things to happen so number one available availability of AP is I think if you look at the different api's they access to the variety of SI p systems what you did see is that there's a digital core there's all of the different assets we've got in the cloud easy access to those I think customers can look for that right how can they rapidly develop an essay p successfactors extension or how can they extend ASAP arriba very quickly integrating that with the s100 digital core I think that's number one number two is the HCP App Center so we have probably about a thousand plus apps out there and by the way I do need to give a shout out here because we've got three apps that three iOS apps that IBM pour it onto HANA cloud platform in the last six weeks was it Fred six weeks we're talking about you know an incredibly short amount of time that are now highlighted on HANA cloud platform app center Fred talk about IBM right now because this isn't a game finished shift I've noticed more aggressively the three years ago I saw the wave coming at IBM and now remote past two years it's just been constant battering on the beachhead iBM has been donating a ton of IP with open sores everyone's behind blue bluemix has gone from you know a fork of cloud foundry to a now really fast they're moving very very quickly yes sir writing apps you're partnering is this part of the strategy just to kind of keep humbling the Markowitz assets like this is that's open the more open IBM and how is open mean to for you guys today well because I think at the end of the day we got to realize that I mean us to question a couple couple questions ago and I Neal answered it quite well which is customers are going to make the choice customers want to be flexible in their choice so understand I want to first of all shout outs IV to Apple excuse me to sav a shadow tennis AP here which is s ap has always been about partnering an ecosystem and so that's a court that's a core belief of theirs so when you look at what they've technically done here with the HANA cloud platform you know one of the many strategists can put this on a board enjoys well this is what this is what they should be doing but the reality of it is is the reason companies stay with existing service providers the reason companies say with existing technologies is because they've already got it it's what they know how to do and so and what they want to do is very hard so the Hana architecture in the hunting club platform was probably drawn on a board ten years ago the fact that it's real and here now now mace clients the ability to actually make these kind of ships IBM's move to the cloud moving assets to the cloud because we recognize clients are actually going to want to pick and choose and build these things in a dynamic fashion and we want our workloads to be on the IBM cloud every single show I go to down basically feels like a cloud in a data show even amplify which is kind of a commerce show sure it's all about data and the cloud so I we got to get we got to get wrapped up I want to get one final thread in with you guys and that is unpardonable Apple just spent the billion dollars with the uber clone and China so you see their partner strategy they did partner with you guys and now SI p this is a really interesting strategy for Apple to go into the enterprise they don't have to get over their skis and over-rotate on this market that can come in pre existing players and extend out versus trying to just have a strategy of rolling products out so it seems that Apple is partnering creating alliances as their way into the enterprise similar to what they're doing in in China with who were just a random example but which is impressed this week is that the Apple strategy I mean you guys both talk to Apple I mean you guys have both of deals share some color on Apple's partnering and alliances their joint venture not your invention for joint development seems to be very cool so I it's not I I I want you know when I look at what we're doing with that you know we have a goal and our goal is we believe that we can transform the enterprise you know we I BM we IBM and SI p we IBM and our partners including Apple we want to transform enterprise Apple signed on to that because Apple realized that they were changing consumers lives and and then they woke up and they said well actually but many people spend a large part of their waking day at work so if I can change a consumers life I can also change an enterprise employees life and that is the work that we are setting about doing and so therefore the partnership IBM understands enterprise really well SI p was Bill statistic today seventy-three percent of the world's transactions run through an essay peak or so yeah Apple's very obviously very delivered in picking their partners we're thrilled with the mobile first for iOS worked in Swiss great programming language has great legs is so elegant and sweet it's like see but more elegant absolutely I think again when you look at what Apple's mission has been and you look at sa peace mission right we talked about helping companies run better and transforming lives so i think i think the missions actually do intersect here and and I think SI p is a very different company than we were you know 20 years ago so for us now that user experience and product while agent by the way absence proc solid quality absolutely so I think I i think you know we converge on those areas so I would say that it's a it's a very natural farming from Apple's a brilliant strategy because it's interbred and it prizes hard you guys to live that every day it's not easy and we see venture-backed startups try to get into the enterprise and the barriers just go up every day with dev ops and you know integration now is mrs. Ann we could talk about another segment with a break but we haven't gone to the whole what does it mean to integrate that's a whole nother complex world that requires orchestration really really interesting and you just write that over the weekend and a hackathon absolutely and I think now with the tools that we're making available on our cloud platform as part of a platform as a service I think again that's the way where we can get the user interface the experience that apple provides combined with the enterprise solid stuff that we do that's awesome I'll give you guys both the final word on the segment and a bumper sticker what is this show about this year what is s AP sapphire 2016 about what's the the bumper sticker what's the theme I you know what I love builds words today I think it's about empathy it's about making it real for customers I think you'll see you know our demos are joined demos as well both in an essay p IBM Joint Center here as well as in the IBM boat you see real life solutions that are real that customers can touch that they can use so I'd like to go with that predicate real hey listen to me it's a really simple to two simple words digital reinvention every single company in the world is trying to become a digital company I think about my Hilton app when I checked into my hotel yesterday and I opened my door with my iPhone my hotel my room door you know it is every company is endeavoring to become a digital company and what what sapphire is about this year is everyone realizes at the core of every company is that platform that s AP gahanna or ECC platform and every major enterprise that's waking up to that suddenly realizes we've got to do something an essay p nibm our partner here to help thanks guys so much for sharing your insight digital reinvention going on for real here at sapphire this is the cube you're watching the cube live at sapphire now we'll be right back thank you