(intro music playing) >> Hello everyone, and welcome to the power of n where HPE Aruba and Pensando are changing the game, the way customers scale with the cloud, and what's next in the evolution in switching. Hey everyone, I'm John furrier with the cube, and I'm here with Shane Corbin, director of technical product management at Pensando, and William show vice president of product management, Aruba HPE. Gentlemen, thank you for coming on and doing a deep dive and, and going into the, the big news. So the first question I want to ask you guys is um, what do you guys see from a market customer perspective that kicked this project off? um, amazing um, results um, over the past year or so? Where did it all come from? >> No, it's a great question, John. So when we were doing our homework, there were actually three very clear customer challenges. First, security threats were largely spawn with on, within the perimeter. In fact, Forrester highlighted 80% of threats originate within the internal network. Secondly, workloads are largely distributed creating a ton of east-west traffic. And then lastly, network services such as firewalls, load balancers, VPN aggregators are expensive, they're centralized, and they ultimately result in service chaining complexity. >> John: So, so, >> John: Go ahead, Shane. >> Yeah. Additionally, when we spoke to our customers after launching initially the distributed services platform, these compliance challenges clearly became apparent to us and while they saw the architecture value of adopting what the largest public cloud providers have done by putting a smart NIC in each compute node to provide these stateful services. Enterprise customers were still, were struggling with the need to upgrade fleets and brown field servers and the associated per node cost of adding a smart NIC to every compute node. Typically the traffic volumes for on a per node basis within an enterprise data center are significantly lower than cloud. Thus, we saw an opportunity here to, in conjunction with Aruba, develop a new category of switching product um, to share the processing capabilities of our unique intellectual property around our DPU across a rack of servers that net net delivers the same set of services through a new category of platform, enabling a distributed services architecture, and ultimately addressing the compliance and TCO generating huge TCO and ROI for customers. >> You know, one of the things that we've been reporting on with you guys, as well as the cloud scale, this is the volume of data and just the performance and scale. I think the timing of the, of this partnership and the product development is right on point. And you've got the edge right around the corner, more, more distributed nature of cloud operations, huge, huge change in the marketplace. So great timing on the origination story there. Great stuff. Tell me more about the platform itself, the details, what's under the hood, the hardware OS, what are the specs? >> Yeah, so we started with a very familiar premise. Rubik customers are already leveraging CX with an edge to cloud common operating model, in deploying leaf and spine networks. Plus we're excited to introduce the industry's first distributed services switch, where the first configuration has 48-25 gig ports with a hundred gig couplings running Aruba CX cloud native operating system, Pensando Asic's software inside, enabling layer four through six, seven stateful services. Shane, do you want to elaborate on. >> Yeah, let me elaborate on that a little bit further, um, you know, as we spoke existing platforms and how customers were seeking to address these challenges were, are inherently limited by the ASIC dye size, and that does limit their scale and performance and ability in traditional switching platforms to deliver truly stateful functions in, in, in a switching platform, this was, you know, architecturally from the ground up, when we developed our DPU, first and second generation, we delivered it, or we, we built it with stateful services in mind from the get-go, we leveraged the clean state design with our P four program with DPU. We evolved to our seven nanometers based pro DPU right now, which is essentially enabling software and Silicon. And this has generated a new level of performance scale, flexibility and capability in terms of services. This serves as the foundation for our 200 gig card, were we taking the largest cloud providers into production for. And the DPU itself is, is designed inherently to process stage, track stateful connections, and stateful flow is at very, very large scale without impacting performance. And in fact, the two of these DPU components server disk, services foundation of the CX 10 K, and this is how we enable stateful functions in a switching platform functions like stateful network fire-walling, stateful segmentation, enhanced programmable telemetry, which we believe will bring a whole lot of value to our customers. And this is a platform that's inherently programmable from the ground up. We can, we can build and leverage this platform to build new use cases around encryption, enabling stateful load balancing, stateful NAT to name a few, but, but the key message here is, this is, this is a platform with the next generation of architecture's in mind, is programmed, but at all, there's the stack, and that's what makes it fundamentally different than anything else. >> I want to just double click on that if you don't mind, before we get to the competitive question, because I think you brought up the state thing. I think this is worth calling out, if you guys don't mind commenting more on this states issue, because this is big. Cloud native developers right now, want speed, they're shifting left at the CICD pipeline with programmability. So going down and having the programmability, and having state is a really big deal. Can you guys just expand on that a little bit more and why it's important and, and how hard it really is to pull off? >> I, I can start, I guess, um, it's very hard to pull off because of the sheer amount of connections you need to track when you're developing something like a stateful firewall or a stateful load balancer, a key component of that is managing the connections at very, very large scale and understanding what's happening with those connections at scale, without impacting application performance. And this is fundamentally different at traditional switching platform, regardless of how it's deployed today in Asics, don't typically process and manage state like this. Um, memory resources within the chip aren't sufficient, um, the policy scale that you can um, implement on a platform aren't sufficient to address and fundamentally enable deployable firewalling, or load balancing, or other stateful services. >> That's exactly right. And so the other kind of key point here is that, if you think about the sophistication of different security threats, it does really require you to be able to look at the entire packet, and, and more so be able to look at the entire flow and be able to log that history, so that you can get much better heuristics around different anomalies, security threats that are emerging today. >> That's a great, great point. Thanks for, for, um, bringing that extra, extra point out. I would just add to this, we're reporting this all the time on Silicon angle in the cube is that, you know, the, you know, the, the automation wave that's coming with around data, you know, it's a center of data, not data centers we heard earlier on with the, in, in, in the presentation. Data drives automation, having that enabled with the state is a real big deal. So, I think that's really worth calling out. Now, I've got to ask the competition question, how is this different? I mean, this is an evolution. I would say, it's a revolution. You guys are being being humble, um, but how is this different from what customers can deploy today? >> Architecturally, if you take a look at it. We've, we've spoken about the technology and fundamentally in the platform what's unique, in the architecture, but, foundationally when customers deploy stateful services they're typically deployed leveraging traditional big box appliances for east-west our workload based agents, which seek to implement stateful security for each east-west. Architecturally what we're enabling is stateful services like firewalling, segmentation, can scale with the fabric and are delivered at the optimal point for east west which is through leaf for access layer of the network. And we do this for any type of workload. Be it deployed on a virtualized compute node, be a deployed on a containerized worker node, be deployed on bare metal, agnostic up typology, it can be in the access layer of a three tier design and a data center. It can be in the leaf layer of a VX VPN based fabric, but the goal is an all centrally managed to a single point of orchestration and control of which William will talk about shortly. The goal of this is to drive down the TCO of your data center as a whole, by allowing you to retire legacy appliances that are deployed in an east-west roll, and not utilize host based agents, and thus save a whole lot of money and we've modeled on the order of 60 to 70% in terms of savings in terms of the traditional data center pod design of a thousand compute nodes which we'll be publishing. And as, as we go forward additional services, as we mentioned, like encryption, this platform has the capability to terminate up to 800 gigs of our line rates encryption, IP sec, VPN per platform, stateful Nat load balancing, and this is all functionality we'll be adding to this existing platform because it's programmable as we've mentioned from the ground up. >> What are some of the use cases lead? And what's the top use cases, what's the low hanging fruit and where does this go? You've got service providers, enterprises. What are the types of customers you guys see implementing? >> Yeah, that's, what's really exciting about the CX 10,000. We actually see customer interest from all types of different markets, whether it be higher education, service providers to financial services, basically all enterprises verticals with private cloud or edge data centers. For example, it could be a hospital, a big box retailer, or a colon such as Iniquinate So it's really the CX 10,000 that creates a new switching category, enabling stateful services in that leaf node right at the workload, unifying network and security automation policy management. Second, the CX 10,000 greatly improves security posture and eliminates the need for hair-pinning east-west traffic all the way back to the centralized deployments. Lastly, As Shane highlighted, there's a 70% TCO savings by eliminating that appliance sprawl and ultimately collapsing the network security operations. >> I love the category creation um, vibe here. Love it. And also the technical and the cloud alignment's great. But how do the customers manage all this? Okay, I got a new category. I just put the box in, throw away some other ones? I mean, how does this all get done? And how does the customers manage all this? >> Yeah, so we're, we're looking to build on top of the river fabric composer. It's another familiar site for our customers, and what's already provides for compute storage and network automation, with a broad ecosystem integrations, such as VMware vSphere Vcenter as with Nutanix prism and so aligned with the CX 10,000 FGA, now you have a fabric composer, unified security and policy orchestration, and management with the ability to find firewall policies efficiently and provide that telemetry to collect your such a Splunk. >> John: So the customer environments right now involve a lot of multi-vendor and new frameworks, obviously, cloud native. How does this fit into the customer's existing environment with the ecosystem? How do they get, get going here? >> Yeah, great question. Um, Our customers can get going as we, we've built a flexible platform that can be deployed in either Greenfield or brownfield. Obviously it's a best of breed architecture for distributed services we're building in conjunction with Aruba. But if customers want to gradually integrate this into their existing environments and they're using other vendors, spines or cores, this can be inserted seamlessly as, as a lead for an access, access tier switch to deliver the exact same set of services within that architecture. So it plugs seamlessly in because it supports all the standard control plan protocols, a VX 90 VPN, and a traditional attitude, three tier designs easily. Now, for any enterprise solution deployment, it's critical that you build a holistic ecosystem around it. It's clear that, this will get customer deployments and the ecosystem being diverse and rich is very, very important. And as part of our integrations with the controller, we're building a broad suite of integrations across threat detection, application dependency mapping, Siemens sooam, dev ops infrastructure as code tools. (inaudible) And it's clear if you look at these categories of integrations, you know, XDR or threat detection requires full telemetric from within the data center, it's been hard to accomplish to date because you typically need agents on, on your compute nodes to give you the visibility into what's going on or firewalls for east west fuels. Now, our platform can natively provide full visibility into all flows east- west in the data center. And this can become the source of telemetry truth that these MLX CR engines require to work. The other aspects of ecosystem around application dependency mapping, this single core challenge with deploying segmentation east west is understanding the rules to put in & Right, first is how do you insert the service, um, service device in such a way that it won't add more complexity? We don't add any complexity because we're in line natively. How you would understand it, would allow you to build the rules that are necessary to do segmentation. We integrate with tools like Guardi core, we provide our flogs as source of data, and they can provide room recommendations and policy recommendations for customers. Around, we're building integrations around Siemen soam with, with tools like Splunk and elastic, elastic search that will allow NetOps and SecOps teams to visualize trend and manage the services delivered by the CX 10 K. And the other aspect of ecosystem, from a security standpoint is clearly how do I get policy for these traditional appliances and enforce them on this next generation architecture that you've built, that can enable stateful services. So we're building integrations with tools like turf and an algo sec third-party sources of policy that we can ingest and enforce on the infrastructure, allowing you to gradually, um, migrate to this new architecture over time. >> John: It's really a cloud native switch. I mean, you solve people's problems, pin- points, but yet positioned for growth. I mean, it sounds that's my takeaway, but I got to ask you guys both, what's the takeaway for the customers because it's not that simple for them, I mean it's, we a have complicated environment. (all giggling) >> Yeah, I think it's, I think it's really simple, um, you know, every 10 years or so, we see major evolutions in the data center and the switching environment, but we do believe we've created a new category with the distributed services, distributed services switch, delivering cloud scale distributed services, where the local, where the workloads reside greatly, simplifying network, security provisioning, and operations with the urban fabric composer while improving security posture and the TCO. But that's not all the folks, it's a journey, right Shane? >> Yeah, it's absolutely a journey. And this is the first step in a long journey with a great partner like Aruba. There's other platforms, hundred or 400 gig hardware platforms where we're looking at and then this additional services that we can enable over time, allowing customers to drive even more TCO value out of the platform of the architecture services like encryption for securing the cloud on-ramp, services like stateful load balancing to deploy east-west in the data center and, you know, holistically that's, that's the goal, deliver value for customers. And we believe we have an architecture and a platform, and this is a first step in a long journey. >> It's a great way of, I just ask one final, final question for both of you as product leaders, you got to be excited having a category creation product here in this market, this big wave, but what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, exactly right, it doesn't happen that often, and so we're, we're all in it's, it's exciting to be able to work with a great team like Pensando and Shane here. Um, so we're really, really excited about this launch. >> Yeah, it's awesome. The team is great. It's a great partnership between Pensando and Aruba. You know, we, we look forward to delivering value for our joint customers. >> John: Thank you both for sharing under the hood and more details on the product. Thanks for coming on. >> [William And Shane] Thank you. >> Okay. The next evolution in switching, I'm John Furrier here with the power of nHPE Aruba and Pensando changing the game, the way customers scale up in the cloud and networking. Thanks for watching. (music playing)

>>Hello and welcome to the power of and where H P E Aruba and Pensando are changing the game the way customers scale at the cloud and what's next in the evolution in switching everyone. I'm john ferrier with the Cuban. I'm here with Shane Corbyn, Director of Technical Product management. Pensando Williams show vice president Product management, Aruba HP Gentlemen, thank you for coming on and doing a deep dive and and going into the big news. So the first question I want to ask you guys is um, what do you guys see from a market customer perspective that kicked this project off? Amazing results over the past year or so. Where did it all come from? >>It's a great question, John So when we were doing our homework, there were actually three very clear customer challenges. First, security threats were largely spawned with from within the perimeter. In fact, four star highlights that 80% of threats originate within the internal network. Secondly, workloads are largely distributed, creating a ton of east west traffic and then lastly, network services such as firewalls load balancers. VPN aggregators are expensive. They're centralized and then ultimately result in service changing complexity. So everyone, >>so go ahead. Change. >>Yeah. Additionally, when we spoke to our customers after launching initially the distributed services platform, these compliance challenges clearly became apparent to us and while they saw the architectural value of adopting what the largest public cloud providers have done by putting a smart making each compute note to provide these state full services. Enterprise customers were still were struggling with the need to upgrade fleets and Brownfield servers and the associated per node cost of adding a spark nick to every compute node. Typically the traffic volumes for on a personal basis within an enterprise data center are significantly lower than cloud. Thus we saw an opportunity here to in conjunction with Aruba developed a new category of switching product um, to share the crossing capabilities of our unique intellectual property around our DPU across a rack of servers that Net Net delivers the same set of services through a new category of platform, enabling a distributed services architecture and ultimately addressing the compliance and uh, TCO generating huge TCO and ri for customers. >>You know, one of the things that we've been reporting on with you guys as well as the cloud scale, this is the volume of data and just the performance and scale I think the timing of the, of this partnership and the product development is right on point. You got the edge right around the corner more, more distributed nature of cloud operations, huge, huge change in the marketplace. So great timing on the origination story there. Great stuff. Tell me more about the platform itself. The details what's under the hood, the hardware. Os, what are the specs? >>Yeah, so we started with a very familiar premise, Ruba customers are already leveraging C X with an edge to cloud, common operating model and deploying Leaf and spy networks. Plus we're excited to introduce the industry's first distributed services switch where the first configuration has 48 25 gig ports with 100 gig uplinks running Aruba C X cloud native operating system. Pensando A six and software inside enabling layer four through seven staple services you want to elaborate on. >>Let me elaborate on that a little further. Um, you know, as we spoke, existing platforms and how customers were seeking to address these challenges were inherently limited by the diocese and that thus limited their scale and performance and ability in traditional switching platforms to deliver truly stable functions in in a switching platform. This was, you know, architecturally from the ground up. When we developed our DPU 1st and 2nd generation, we delivered it or we we we built it with staples services in in mind from the Gecko. We we leverage to clean state designed with RP four program with GPU, we evolved to our seven nanometer based DPU right now, which is essentially enabling software and silicon and this has generated a new level of performance scale flexibility and capability in terms of services this serves as the foundation for or 200 gig card where we're taking the largest cloud providers into production for. And the DPU itself is designed inherently to process state track state connections and state will flow is a very, very large scale without impacting performance. And in fact, the two of these deep you component service, their services foundation of the C X 10-K And this is how we enable states of functions in a switching platform. Functions like stable network network fire walling, stable segmentation, enhance programmable telemetry. Which we believe will bring a whole lot of value to our customers. And this is a, a platform that's inherently programmable from the ground up. We can we can build and and leverages platform to build new use cases around encryption, enabling state for load balancing, stable nash to name a few. But the key message here is this is this is a platform with the next generation of architecture is in mind is programmed but at all levels of the stack and that's what makes it fundamentally different than anything else. >>I want to just double click on that if you don't mind before we get to the competitive question because I think you brought up the state thing, I think this is worth calling out if you guys don't mind commenting more on this state issue because this is big cloud. Native developers right now want speed, they're shifting left at the Ci cd pipeline with program ability. So going down and having the program ability and having state is a really big deal. Can you guys just expand on that a little bit more and why it's important and how hard it really is to pull off. >>I I can start I guess. Well um it's very hard to pull off because of the sheer amount of connections you need to track when you're developing something like a state, full firewall or state from load balancer. A key component of that is managing the connections at very, very large scale and understanding what's happening with those connections at scale without impacting application performance. And this is fundamentally different. A traditional switching platform regardless of how it's deployed today in a six don't typically process and manage state like this. Memory resources within the shape aren't sufficient. Um the policy scale that you can implement on a platform aren't sufficient to address and fundamentally enable deployable fire walling or load balancing or other state services. >>That's exactly right. So the other kind of key point here is that if you think about the sophistication of different security threats, it does really require you to be able to look at the entire packet and more so be able to look at the entire flow and be able to log that history so that you can get much better heuristics around different anomalies. Security threats that are emerging today. >>That's a great great point. Thanks for bringing that extra extra point out, I would just add to this, we're reporting this all the time when silicon angle in the cube is that you know, the you know, the the automation wave that's coming with around data, you know, it's the center of data now, not date as soon as we heard earlier on with the presentation data drives automation having that enabled with state is a real big deal. So I think that's really worth calling out now. I got to ask the competition question, how is this different? I mean this is an evolution, I would say it's a revolution you guys are being humble um but how is this different from what customers can deploy today >>architecturally, if you take a look at it? So we've, we've spoken about the technology and fundamentally in the platform, what's unique in the architecture but foundational e when customers deploy stable services, they're typically deployed leveraging traditional big box appliances for east west or workload based agents which seek to implement stable security for each East west architectural, what we're enabling is staples services like fire walling, segmentation can scale with the fabric and are delivered at the optimal point for east west which is through the Leaf for access their of the network and we do this for any type of workload. Being deployed on a virtualized compute node being deployed on a containerized, our worker node being deployed on bare metal agnostic of topology. It can be in the access layer of a three tier design and a data center. It can be in the leaf layer of the excellent VPN based fabric. But the goal is an all centrally managed to a single point of orchestration control which William we'll talk about shortly. The goal of this is to to drive down the TCO of your data center as a whole by allowing you to retire legacy appliances that are deployed in in east west role, not utilized host based agents and thus save a whole lot of money. And we've modeled on the order of 60 to 70% in terms of savings in terms of the traditional data center pod design of 1000 compute nodes which will be publishing and as as we go forward, additional services as we mentioned like encryption, this platform has the capability to terminate up to 800 gigs of line, right encryption, I P sec VPN per platform state will not load balancing and this is all functionality will be adding to this existing platform because it's programmable as we mentioned from the ground up. >>What are some of the use cases lead and one of the top use case. What's the low hanging fruit? And where does this go? Service providers enterprise, what are the types of customers you guys see implementing? >>Yeah, that's what's really exciting about the C X 10,000 we actually see customer interest from all types of different markets, whether it be higher education service providers to financial services, basically all enterprises verticals with private cloud or edge data centers for example, could be a hospital, a big box retailer or Coehlo. Such as an equity. It's so it's really the 6 10,000 that creates a new switching category enabling staple services in that leaf node, right at the workload, unifying network and security automation policy management. Second, the C X 10,000 greatly improved security posture and eliminates the need for hair pinning east west traffic all the way back to the centralized plants. Lastly, a Shane highlighted there's a 70% Tco savings by eliminating that appliance brawl and ultimately collapsing the network security operations. >>I love the category creation vibe here. Love it. And obviously the technical and the cloud line is great. But how do the customers manage all this? Okay. You got a new category. I just put the box in, throw away some other one. I mean how does this all get down? How does the customers manage all this? >>Yeah. So we're looking to build on top of the ribbon fabric composer. It's another familiar sight for our customers which already provides for compute storage and network automation with a broad ecosystem integrations such as being where the sphere be center as with Nutanix prison And so aligned with the c. x. 10,000 at G. A. now the aruba fabric composer unifies security and policy orchestration and management with the ability to find firewall policies efficiently and provide that telemetry to collectors such a slump. >>So the customer environments right now involve a lot of multi vendor and new frameworks cloud native. How does this fit into the customer's existing environment? The ecosystem. How do they get that get going here? >>Yeah, great question. Um our customers can get going is we we built a flexible platform that can be deployed in either Greenfield or brownfield. Obviously it's a best of breed architecture for distributed services were building in conjunction with the ruble but if customers want to gradually integrate this into their existing environments and they're using other vendors, spines or course this can be inserted seamlessly as a leaf or an access access to your switch to deliver the exact same set of services within that architecture. So it plugs seamlessly in because it supports all the standard control playing protocols, VX, Lenny, VPN and traditional attitude three tier designs easily. Now for any enterprise solution deployment, it's critical that you build a holistic ecosystem around it. It's clear that this will get customer deployments and the ecosystem being diverse and rich is very, very important and as part of our integrations with the controller, we're building a broad suite of integrations across threat detection application dependency mapping, Semen sore develops infrastructure as code tools like ants, Poland to answer the entire form. Um, it's clear if you look at these categories of integrations, you know XDR or threat detection requires full telemetry from within the data center. It's been hard to accomplish to date because you typically need agents on, on your compute nodes to give you the visibility into what's going on or firewalls for east west flaws. Now our platform can natively provide full visibility in dolphins, East west in the data center and this can become the source of telemetry truth that these Ml XT or engines required to work. The other aspects of ecosystem are around application dependency mapping the single core challenge with deploying segmentation. East West is understanding the rules to put in place right first, is how do you insert the service uh service device in such a way that it won't add more complexity. We don't add any complexity because we're in line natively. How do we understand that allow you to build the rules are necessary to do segmentation. We integrate with tools like guard corps, we provide our flow logs a source of data and they can provide rural recommendations and policy recommendations for customers around. We're building integrations around steve and soar with tools like Splunk and elastic elastic search that will allow net hops and sec ops teams to visualize, train and manage the services delivered by the C X 10-K. And the other aspect of ecosystem from a security standpoint is clearly how do I get policy from these traditional appliances and enforce them on this next generation architecture that you've built that can enable state health services. So we're building integrations with tools like toughen analgesic third party sources of policy that we can ingest and enforcing the infrastructure allowing you to gradually migrate to this new architecture over time >>it's really a cloud native switch, you solve people's problems pain points but yet positioned for growth. I mean it sounds that's my takeaway. But I gotta ask you guys both what's the takeaway for the customers because it's not that simple for that. We have a complicated >>Environment. I think, I think it's really simple every 10 years or so. We see major evolutions in the data center in the switching environment. We do believe we've created a new category with the distributed services, distributed services, switch, delivering cloud scale distribute services where the local where the workloads were side greatly simplifying network security provisions and operations with the Yoruba fabric composer while improving security posture and the TCO. But that's not all folks. It's a journey. Right. >>Yeah, it's absolutely a journey. And this is the first step in in a long journey with a great partner like Aruba, there's other platforms, 100 or four gig hardware platforms we're looking at and then there's additional services that we can enable over time allowing customers to drive even more Tco value out of the platform and the architectural services like encryption for securing the cloud on ramp services like state for load balancing to deploy east west in the data center and you know, holistically that's that's the goal, deliver value for customers and we believe we have an architecture and a platform and this is the first step in a long journey. It's >>a great way. I just ask one final final question for both of you. As product leaders, you've got to be excited having a category creation product here in this market, this big wave. What's what's your thoughts? >>Yeah, exactly. Right. It doesn't happen that often. And so we're all in, it's it's exciting to be able to work with a great team like Sandu and chain here. And so we're really excited about this launch. >>Yeah, it's awesome. The team is great. It's a great partnership between and santo and Aruba and you know, we we look forward to delivering value for john customers. >>Thank you both for sharing under the hood and more details on the product. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Okay, >>the next evolution of switching, I'm john furrier here with the power of An HP, Aruba and Pensando, changing the game the way customers scale up in the cloud and networking. Thanks for watching. Mhm.

>> From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with our leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to theCUBE conversation. I'm coming to you from our Boston area studio. We've been digging into Pesando and the technology that there've been doing. Happy to welcome to the program. Steve Hershkowitz, he's the vice president of worldwide sales with Hewlett Packard enterprise, part of the HPC, HPE Pensando, relationship. Steve, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me, Stu. I'm really happy to be here. >> So, obviously, Pensando made a bit of a splash when they came out at the end of 2019. We were really excited to have the Cube Apple launch, had some big name guests there, including your CEO, Antonio Neri. HPE has an investment and as an OEM of Pensando, So, bring us in us to why this partnership, why this investment from HPE standpoint? >> Well, thanks Stu. So obviously there were a lot of reasons why HP would be interested in a partnership with an innovative company like Pensando standing the fact that you have the MPLS team that had developed, industry changing technologies, for their previous company at Cisco, and leveraging their expertise and their market leadership to bring new innovation to the market, which was very interesting to us. As well as, the partnership that was launched between, Pensando's chairman John Chambers and our CEO, Antonio Neri. And when you hear them speak, they talk about, being partners for life. And so I think what's unique and what's interesting to us is you'll hear our CEO, Antonio talk a lot about HP's evolution as a company and how we are absolutely the edge to Cloud Platform as a service company. And when you have a strategy that involves servicing and consumption, you have to follow the innovation engine and the market transitions up to be able to satisfy your customers and get out in front of some of the market trends. And so the technology and the innovation that Pensando brings to the market is unlike anything else that's available today that anybody else can do. And we saw this as a great opportunity for us to really serve our customers as they move more of their data to the edge and want to apply and distribute a lot of the services to the edge where the data is created and of course, where most of the data is consumed. So it's an exciting partnership for us. We also have a board seat in the company and we're very, very excited about the opportunity and our customers are really, really excited as well about the partnership. >> Yeah, it's interesting. Those of us that have watched the industry long enough, I remember back, John Chambers for many years at HP was one of Cisco's biggest partners, for a long time. It really interesting what you're talking about, some of the new opportunities, what's going on with edge. Bring us inside the partnership a little bit. How has it been going? You've got about six months since it's unveiled to the world. What can you tell us so far, now that it's seen the light of day? >> Well, so the partnership is very, very strong and I think if you ask some of the senior executives on the Pensando side, including some of the board members, they would tell you that the partnership with HPE is different than any other relationship that they have with any other company. And it is that way because we created a very unique bond through our global business unit that's responsible for bringing these products to market and defining the roadmap to a very, very unique go to market strategy that we've developed where we actually have myself leading a go to market engine of people that are helping with the enablement, with the training, with the customer interactions, qualifying opportunities, and really helping to make a market for this technology as we do have first mover advantage. So we work very closely with all aspects of the Pensando team. Our business units are aligned, our development teams are aligned, our sales teams are very, very closely aligned. Their chief revenue officer, Frank Paloma and I are tied at the hip as we bring this technology to market together with both of our sales teams. And then as we look at further innovating together, we are completely locked and aligned on the combined roadmap. So it's a unique partnership. It creates unprecedented opportunity for HPE through this partnership to gain architectural control and help our customers gain architectural control over these next generation data center networks and really make a leapfrog over any of the technologies that are available today. Really two focuses, right? One is in helping the cloud service providers that want to better compete with the 800 pound gorillas, with a much better technology, a faster technology and a technology that leapfrogs anything that they've built. And the other side of that is our ability to help enterprises as we sell more as a service offerings and more edge solutions, help our enterprises make their environments much less complex, much more secure, and really help him improve business application performance so that they can sustain competitive advantage and make their data center networks look a lot more like what the hyperscalers have built, but only a lot better and a lot faster and a lot more secure. >> Yeah. I tell you, Steve, one of the things that I've always been really admired about HP over the years is baking these solutions together. It's not just a bunch of pieces, get them at the customer site and figure it out. But, I worked on standards, I've worked on a lot of solutions over the years and HP and now HPE always makes sure when it gets to the customer, it's together, it works. The time from getting it to being able to use it, really is minimized and that focus on simplicity is something that I've seen time and again from HPE. When it comes to the Pensando solution, how does this fit in with the HPE products? Where is it fit in? What are those solutions look like today? >> It's a really, really good question, Stu. So, initially we're going to market on our ProLiant Rack Server platform and we will launch in June, general availability. These solutions, we've been offering them to customers, very select number of customers through a private skew that we've created, but it fits initially within our Rack Server portfolio. But over time you'll see us start to begin to integrate this across the entire compute portfolio, where it makes sense and where there's a market and where customers are asking for it in addition to some integration points with different business units, right? So we have this relationship is so exciting that almost every business unit within HPE is interested in figuring out what the leverage points are to help solve customer problems and create opportunities for customers. So everything from our blade servers through synergy, through our Aruba relationship, through our software, stack, we're going to be doing a lot more integration. So I think you look out for initially an opportunity to install this digital services platform where you have a lot of Rack Servers and you want to reduce the complexity and really distribute a lot of those network services that are provided today in a centralized fashion. Through a number of different black boxes with a number of different operating systems, a number of different service contracts, move those to the compute edge at the exhaust of an HPE server on a platform that's factory integrated. And that we stand behind them, we support and sell. And you made another comment about support and how HPE does a really good job at making sure that when we sell a solution, it's a tightly integrated solution that scales, that works together and their customers can count on and versus something that's loosely coupled than disjointed as you see a lot of partnerships, which we try and avoid. So one of the parts of this relationship that's unique is that HPE is actually going to be supporting and providing the L1, and the L2 support for this product on a global basis. So when our customers have an issue or they need help, they come to us and it really rounds out the relationship. So it's not just taking a portfolio or a solution and putting it into an HP server. It's a factory integrated, factory tested solution with a lot of different integrations that we stand behind, that we sell and it scales. It'll work just as well with a hundred DSPs and servers as it will with a hundred thousand. >> I'd love to drill in a little bit on, really the customer use cases there. When you talk about edge computing, first of all, there's a lot of misnomers out in the industry. Edge can be anything from the telco edge. I've seen lots of things like network function virtualization. I've talked to HPE about those network offerings in the past through down to kind of IOT devices and everything in between. You said you've got some customers that have been getting early access. Are there any patterns or anything you can tell us about what are those edge use cases that this solution is a good fit for? >> Sure Stu. I think, when we started this journey six months ago, we initially thought that the most common use case that customers would be interested, especially the large New York financial customers were the large financial customers in general would be security, right? And so we had a lot of conversations about things like East West firewall, 70, 80% of the traffic as we talk to customers nowadays, is East West, right? It's application to application traffic, where it used to be North, South and that East West traffic, especially in a virtualized world with virtualized networks and virtualized servers, has created a lot of complexity for customers. So we thought originally, security, micro-segmentation, East, West firewall encryption would be the use cases. But interestingly enough, as we started to talk to customers, what we found out pretty quickly was that many of these customers have lost track because of the sprawl in the growth of the data, in their data centers. It really lost track of which applications are talking to which applications, which people are talking to which people. And in fact, we had some customers tell us that if we were to put your system in and turn on firewall services from day one, we could potentially... it would bring our network to its knees because we've lost track of where everything is going. So, what that's led itself to is a lot of customers very interested in the first use case, which is around visibility, observability and telemetry, giving our customers the ability to really graph out and see their application patterns. Because what you can't see, you really can't secure. And then, and then what we believe will happen over time and we're starting to see this play out, is that those customers, once they have a handle on what their traffic flows are and they have some good telemetry. They have some good services on being able to get that visibility. Then they'll start to define security policy based upon those traffic patterns and use the centralized Pensando policy services manager to distribute that policy, whether it be micro-segmentation for managing and securing, virtualized traffic or East West firewall. And then later on encryption and in a future release. So that's what we're seeing. >> Excellent. I'm like, Oh, great customer data already. What you've been saying really resonates customers today know that pace of change and keeping track of things is really challenging. It's gone from something that people might be able to get a handle to with, to knowing I have to have the automation, the systems the intelligence baked into the system to be able to handle it. All right. So June, this month, you've GA the product, congratulations on getting that. So tell us what you expect to see, the Pensando HP relationship. Are there expansions in the product line? We should be looking forward through the rest of 2020 or any other pieces as look forward? >> Sure. So, we are excited about the June, launch. We're also excited about the fact that we have our large customer show coming up this year, HP discover and we're going to be profiling the new conceptual partnership at discover, giving customers, the ability to see the power of this technology and how it can really help them solve their most pressing business and technical priorities. But we have a full roadmap that we've built out jointly with our partners at Pensando that involves taking this platform across different parts of our portfolio. One of the things that we'll be doing as we launch almost immediately is we're going to be putting this on our flagship GreenLake offer, right? Which is our, as a service offering. And so customers will have the ability to purchase Pensando's solutions under GreenLake and then over time we'll enhance that to provide the detailed metering that our customers have come to know through that platform. So I think you'll see a big splash there. And then there's a lot of work being done to leverage the SDKs that Pensando was providing to provide better integration into some of our workflows and some of our tools. And again, as I mentioned to you earlier, Stu, almost every business unit in our company has got meetings going on with Pensando trying to figure out how they can leverage the power of this technology to help HPE, gain and sustain longterm competitive advantage as customers move from these old legacy, three tier networks that are very complicated to run and they have to stitch the lands together. They have to go through different service chaining to get simple things done. I think there's going to be a lot of work going on across all of our business units to keep Pensando front and center and help us deliver this platform jointly so that we're differentiated. One other thing I think is important too is that we're also building a whole host of differentiated services around this platform. So things like professional services, training services, security assessment services, right. We're gaining a lot of experience through the trial and proof of concept process that we're going through right now and we're building runbooks right? To be able to sort of document exactly what we've learned as we do these big implementations and these trials and be able to bring those to our customers in the form of services that they can use as they look to migrate and modernize these legacy networks. >> Excellent. Well Steve, sounds like just the GA is step one. You and your team have your hands full with a lot of pieces. As you go to market with this and expand that offering, really impressive. We're taking this. Want to give you the final word Pensando HPE and what customers should be looking for? >> Stu, I think our customers should look forward to the GA launch coming out towards the end of June. And this technology is very exciting because if I had to sum it up in basically, three statements it would be this solution combined with what HP has the ability to deliver and support will absolutely help our customers simplify their environments, reduce a lot of operational complexity there by reducing significant cost as they look to rearchitect and build their next generation data center networks. Secondarily, this solution, our combined solution together will help every customer, especially those in the financial industry or highly regulated industries really substantially improve their security posture and reduce the amount of risk that they have in their environments. And then lastly, and I think almost as equally as important, is the fact that this solution, because it's built on a highly programmable, customization, that's traditionally used in networking technology, not necessarily seen at the exhaust of a server, is going to give our customers the ability to exponentially improve their application performance so that when business applications run faster, it gives them opportunities to get to market faster with their own products and drive additional revenue to sustained longterm competitive advantage. So we're excited about the opportunities to... it's going to be a lot of fun. >> Excellent. Well, Steve Hershkowitz, thank you so much for the update. Congratulations on the launch and absolutely we'll be keeping track of the progress. >> Thank you for your time. Happy to be here. >> All right. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (soft music)

>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cute conversation. Hi, welcome back. I'm Stu middleman. And this is a cube conversation digging in with, talking about what they're doing to help people. Yeah. Really bringing some of the networking ideals to cloud native environment, both know in the cloud, in the data centers program, Krishna penny. He is the vice president of software. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you so much for talking to me. Alright, so, so Krishna the pin Sandow team, uh, you know, very well known in the industry three, uh, you innovation. Yeah. Especially in the networking world. Give us a little bit about your background specifically, uh, how long you've been part of this team and, uh, you know, but, uh, you know, you and the team, you know? Yeah. >>And Sando. Yup. Um, so, uh, I'm VP of software in Sandow, um, before Penn Sarno, before founding concern, though, I worked in a few startups in CME networks, uh, newer systems and Greenfield networks, all those three startups have been acquired by Cisco. Um, um, my recent role before this, uh, uh, this, this company was a, it was VP of engineering and Cisco, uh, I was responsible for a product called ACA, which is course flagship SDN tonic. Mmm. So I mean, when, why did we find a phone, uh, Ben Sandoz? So when we were looking at the industry, uh, the last, uh, a few years, right? The few trends that are becoming clear. So obviously we have a lot of enterprise background. We were watching, you know, ECA being deployed in the enterprise data centers. One sore point for customers from operational point of view was installing service devices, network appliances, or storage appliances. >>So not only the operational complexity that this device is bringing, it's also, they don't give you the performance and bandwidth, uh, and PPS that you expect, but traffic, especially from East West. So that was one that was one major issue. And also, if you look at where the intelligence is going, has been, this has been the trend it's been going to the edge. The reason for that is the motors or switches or the devices in the middle. They cannot handle the scale. Yeah. I mean, the bandwidths are growing. The scale is growing. The stateful stuff is going in the network and the switches and the appliances not able to handle it. So you need something at the edge close to the application that can handle, uh, uh, this kind of, uh, services and bandwidth. And the third thing is obviously, you know, x86, okay. Even a few years back, you know, every two years, you know, you're getting more transistors. >>I mean, obviously the most lined it. And, uh, we know we know how that, that part is going. So the it's cycles are more valuable and we don't want to use them for this network services Mmm. Including SDN or firewalls or load balancer. So NBME, mutualization so looking at all these trends in the industry, you know, we thought there is a good, uh, good opportunity to do a domain specific processor for IO and build products around it. I mean, that's how we started Ben signed off. Yeah. So, so Krishna, it's always fascinating to watch. If you look at startups, they are often yeah. Okay. The time that they're in and the technologies that are available, you know, sometimes their ideas that, you know, cakes a few times and, you know, maturation of the technology and other times, you know, I'll hear teams and they're like, Oh, well we did this. >>And then, Oh, wow. There was this new innovation came out that I wish I had add that when I did this last time. So we do, a generation. Oh, wow. Talking about, you know, distributed architectures or, you know, well, over a decade spent a long time now, uh, in many ways I feel edge computing is just, you know, the latest discussion of this, but when it comes to, and you know, you've got software, uh, under, under your purview, um, what are some of the things that are available for that might not have been, you know, in your toolkit, you know, five years ago. Yeah. So the growth of open source software has been very helpful for us because we baked scale-out microservices. This controller, like the last time I don't, when we were building that, you know, we had to build our own consensus algorithm. >>We had to build our own dishwasher database for metrics and humans and logs. So right now, uh, we, I mean, we have, because of open source thing, we leverage CD elastic influx in all this open source technologies that you hear, uh, uh, since we want to leverage the Kubernetes ecosystem. No, that helped us a lot at the same time, if you think about it. Right. But even the software, which is not open source, close source thing, I'm maturing. Um, I mean, if you talk about SDN, you know, seven APS bank, it was like, you know, the end versions of doing off SDN, but now the industry standard is an ADPN, um, which is one of the core pieces of what we do we do as Dean solution with DVA. Um, so, you know, it's more of, you know, the industry's coming to a place where, you know, these are the standards and this is open source software that you could leverage and quickly innovate compared to building all of this from scratch, which will be a big effort for us stocked up, uh, to succeed and build it in time for your customer success. >>Yeah. And Krishna, I, you know, you talk about open forum, not only in the software, the hardware standards. Okay. Think about things, the open compute or the proliferation of, you know, GPS and, uh, everything along that, how was that impact? I did. So, I mean, it's a good thing you're talking about. For example, we were, we are looking in the future and OCP card, but I do know it's a good thing that SEP card goes into a HP server. It goes into a Dell software. Um, so pretty much, you know, we, we want to, I mean, see our goal is to enable this platform, uh, that what we built in, you know, all the use cases that customer could think of. Right. So in that way, hardware, standardization is a good thing for the industry. Um, and then same thing, if you go in how we program the AC, you know, we at about standards of this people, programming, it's an industry consortium led by a few people. >>Um, we want to make sure that, you know, we follow the standards for the customer who's coming in, uh, who wants to program it., it's good to have a standards based thing rather than doing something completely proprietary at the same time you're enabling innovations. And then those innovations here to push it back to the open source. That's what we trying to do with before. Yeah. Excellent. I've had some, some real good conversations about before. Um, and, and the way, uh, and Tondo is, is leveraging that, that may be a little bit differently. You know, you talk about standards and open source, oftentimes it's like, well, is there a differentiator there, there are certain parts of the ecosystem that you say, well, kind of been commodified. Mmm. Obviously you're taking a lot of different technologies, putting them together, uh, help, help share the uniqueness. Okay. And Tondo what differentiates, what you're doing from what was available in the market or that I couldn't just cobbled together, uh, you know, a bunch of open source hardware and software together. >>Yeah. I mean, if you look at a technologist, I think the networking that both of us are very familiar with that. If you want to build an SDN solution, or you can take a, well yes. Or you can use exhibit six and, you know, take some much in Silicon and cobble it together. But the problem is you will not get the performance and bandwidth that you're looking for. Okay. So let's say, you know, uh, if you want a high PPS solution or you want a high CPS solution, because the number of connections are going for your IOT use case or Fiji use case, right. If you, uh, to get that with an open source thing, without any assist, uh, from a domain specific processor, your performance will be low. So that is the, I mean, that's once an enterprise in the cloud use case state, as you know, you're trying to pack as many BMCs containers in one set of word, because, you know, you get charged. >>I mean, the customer, uh, the other customers make money based on that. Right? So you want to offload all of those things into a domain specific processor that what we've built, which we call the TSC, which will, um, which we'll, you know, do all the services at pretty much no cost to accept a six. I mean, it's to six, you'll be using zero cycles, a photo doing, you know, features like security groups or VPCs, or VPN, uh, or encryption or storage virtualization. Right. That's where that value comes in. I mean, if you count the TCO model using bunch of x86 codes or in a bunch of arm or AMD codes compared to what we do. Mmm. A TCO model works out great for our customers. I mean, that's why, you know, there's so much interest in a product. Excellent. I'm proud of you. Glad you brought up customers, Christina. >>One of the challenges I have seen over the years with networking is it tends to be, you know, a completely separate language that we speak there, you know, a lot of acronyms and protocols and, uh, you know, not necessarily passable to people outside of the silo of networking. I think back then, you know, SDN, uh, you know, people on the outside would be like, that stands for still does nothing, right? Like networking, uh, you know, mumbo jumbo there for people outside of networking. You know what I think about, you know, if I was going to the C suite of an enterprise customer, um, they don't necessarily care about those networking protocols. They care about the, you know, the business results and the product Liberty. How, how do you help explain what pen Sandow does to those that aren't, you know, steeped in the network, because the way I look at it, right? >>What is customer looking? But yeah, you're writing who doesn't need, what in cap you use customer is looking for is operational simplicity. And then he wants looking for security. They, it, you know, and if you look at it sometimes, you know, both like in orthogonal, if you make it very highly secure, but you make it like and does an operational procedure before you deploy a workload that doesn't work for the customer because in operational complexity increases tremendously. Right? So it, we are coming in, um, is that we want to simplify this for the customer. You know, this is a very simple way to deploy policies. There's a simple way to deploy your networking infrastructure. And in the way we do it is we don't care what your physical network is, uh, in some sense, right? So because we are close to the server, that's a very good advantage. >>We have, we have played the policies before, even the packet leaves the center, right? So in that way, he knows his fully secure environment and we, and you don't want to manage each one individually, we have this, okay, Rockwell PSM, which manages, you know, all this service from a central place. And it's easy to operationalize a fabric, whether you talk about upgrades or you talk about, you know, uh, deploying new services, it's all driven with rest API, and you can have a GUI, so you can do it a single place. And that's where, you know, a customer's value is rather than talking about, as you're talking about end caps or, you know, exactly the route to port. That is not the main thing that, I mean, they wake up every day, they wake up. Have you been thinking about it or do I have a security risk? >>And then how easy for me is to deploy new, uh, in a new services or bring up new data center. Right. Okay. Krishna, you're also spanning with your product, a few different worlds out. Yeah. You know, traditionally yeah. About, you know, an enterprise data center versus a hyperscale public cloud and ed sites, hi comes to mind very different skillset for management, you know, different types of okay. Appointments there. Mmm. You know, I understand right. You were going to, you know, play in all of those environments. So talk a little bit about that, please. How you do that and, you know, you know, where you sit in, in that overall discussion. Yes. So, I mean, a number one rule inside a company is we are driven by customers and obviously not customer success is our success. So, but given said that, right. What we try to do is that we try to build a platform that is kind of, you know, programmable obviously starting from, you know, before that we talked about earlier, but it's also from a software point of view, it's kind of plugable right. >>So when we build a software, for example, at cloud customers, and they use BSC, they use the same set of age KPI's or GSP CRS, TPS that DSC provides their controller. But when we ship the same, uh, platform, what enterprise customers, we built our own controller and we use the same DC APS. So the way we are trying to do is things is fully leverage yeah. In what we do for enterprise customers and cloud customers. Mmm. We don't try to reinvent the wheel. Uh, obviously at the same time, if you look at the highest level constructs from a network perspective, right. Uh, audience, for his perspective, what are you trying to do? You're trying to provide connectivity, but you're trying to avoid isolation and you're trying to provide security. Uh, so all these constructs we encapsulated in APA is a, which, you know, uh, in some, I, some, some mostly like cloud, like APS and those APIs are, are used, but cloud customers and enterprise customers, and the software is built in a way of it. >>Any layer is, can be removed on any layer. It can be hard, right? Because it's not interested. We don't want to be multiple different offers for different customers. Right. Then we will not scale. So the idea when we started the software architecture, is that how we make it pluggable and how will you make the program will that customer says, I don't want this piece of it. You can put them third party piece on it and still integrate, uh, at a, at a common layer with using. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, Krishna, you know, I have a little bit of appreciation where some of the hard work, what your team has been doing, you know, a couple of years in stealth, but, you know, really accelerating from, uh, you know, the announcement coming out of stealth, uh, at the end of 2019. Yeah. Just about half a year, your GA with a major OEM of HPE, definitely a lot of work that needs to be done. >>It brings us to, you know, what, what are you most proud about from the work that your team's doing? Uh, you know, we don't need to hear any, you know, major horror stories, but, you know, there always are some of them, you know, not holes or challenges that, uh, you know, often get hidden yeah. Behind the curtain. Okay. I mean, personally, I'm most proud of the team that we've made. Um, so, uh, you know, obviously, you know, uh, our executors have it good track record of disrupting the market multiple times, but I'm most proud of the team because the team is not just worried about that., uh, that, uh, even delegate is senior technologist and they're great leaders, but they're also worried about the customer problem, right? So it's always about, you know, getting the right mix, awfully not execution combined with technology is when you succeed, that is what I'm most proud of. >>You know, we have a team with, and Cletus running all these projects independently, um, and then releasing almost we have at least every week, if you look at all our customers, right. And then, you know, being a small company doing that is a, Hmm, it's pretty challenging in a way. But we did, we came up with methodologists where we fully believe in automation, everything is automated. And whenever we release software, we run through the full set of automation. So then we are confident that customer is getting good quality code. Uh, it's not like, you know, we cooked up something and that they should be ready and they need to upgrade to the software. That's I think that's the key part. If you want to succeed in this day and age, uh, developing the features at the velocity that you would want to develop and still support all these customers at the same time. >>Okay. Well, congratulations on that, Christian. All right. Final question. I have for you give us a little bit of guidance going forward, you know, often when we see a company out and we, you know, to try to say, Oh, well, this is what company does. You've got a very flexible architecture, lot of different types of solutions, what kind of markets or services might we be looking at a firm, uh, you know, download down the road a little ways. So I think we have a long journey. So we have a platform right now. We already, uh, I mean, we have a very baby, we are shipping. Mmm Mmm. The platforms are really shipping in a storage provider. Uh, we are integrating with the premier clouds, public clouds and, you know, enterprise market, you know, we already deployed a distributed firewall. Some of the customers divert is weird firewall. >>So, you know, uh, so if you take this platform, it can be extendable to add in all the services that you see in data centers on clubs, right. But primarily we are driven from a customer perspective and customer priority point of view. Mmm. So BMW will go is even try to add more ed services. We'll try to add more storage features. Mmm. And then we, we are also this initial interest in service provider market. What we can do for Fiji and IOT, uh, because we have the flexible platform. We have the, see, you know, how to apply this platform, this new application, that's where it probably will go into church. All right. Well, Krishna not a penny vice president of software with Ben Tondo. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, sir. It was great talking to you. All right. Be sure to check out the cube.net. You can find lots of interviews from Penn Sundo I'm Stu Miniman and thank you. We're watching the cute.

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem. Barker's >> Welcome Back Here in the San Diego Convention Center. I'm student in my co host, David Dante, and you're watching the Cube, the leader in worldwide Tech coverage, and its Sisqo Live 2019 happening. Welcome back to the program. One of our Cuba, Lem's Russ Curie, who is the vice president Enterprise strategy at Net Scout. It's great to see you. Thanks for joining you guys. Thanks for having me. Alright, we always say, we got a bunch of Massachusetts guys that had to fly all the way across the country to talk to each other really well. So a couple hours for the beast hip, all everybody excited. But a lot of excitement here in the definite zone specifically and Sisqo live overall, 28,000 intended you've been to a lot of customer meetings, gives a little insight. What's been your take away from the show so >> far? I think that there's a lot of energy towards the multi cloud called Deployments in general Security. The whole introduction of Umbrella has got a lot of conversation started. It's amazing the amount of cos you see out there talking about just visibility in general, and that's being one of them as well. So it's been a lot of fun. >> Good show this year, Russ. I've been looking for this conversation. We heard from Chuck Robbins in the keynote. He said The network sees a lot of things, and Cisco says they're going to give customers that visibility. Of course, that ties in a lot, too. What Net scouted love, you know, give us. You know, your thoughts on Multi Cloud. How Cisco doing in the space? And how does Net Scout fit into that whole picture? >> Well, I think that one of things as Chuck talks about that, it's the cloud is the one thing, or the network is the one thing that's common for all. Coming along the devices right? I have. If I go into a different cloud, I have one set a performance metrics I might be able to gather about. You look at what device or an operating system. It's all different. But all the communications on the network T C P I. P is common. That really provides that thread that you're able to provide that level of visibility. So it really becomes one of those things that the network is a unique place to gain perspective on both the performance in the security that we're delivering to our customers. So can >> you just summarize the problem that Net Scout solves for our audience? Sure, I think that primarily it's one of these situations where I've been my own prime environment. It was pretty easy. I had access to everything. I could see what was going on. Quite readily. I started introduced visual ization and now traffic start to move much more East West and became a problem for folks. I think can Cisco recently said 85% of the traffic there seeing on the network is East West traffic, right? And then we moved to the cloud, and it's even more obvious gay that I can't see anything in new ways of network traffic. There typically live in clover and desert starting to address that, but really being able to gain that level of visibility so you can understand exactly what's happening just gaining that perspective. So let's explain it. >> I'm going to stay with the East West north seven metaphor. Why is it easier to get visibility in a column? >> Then? It is a row, I think, because in a column is everything exploding north and self. So you've got everything right there, and usually you have a place where you can look into it. But when you're flat, it starts to become really different you're looking at. But advice is talking to know the devices that don't necessarily have to traverse any part of the network it. Khun, stay within. Ah, hi provides, for example, so providing solutions lawyer game visibility into that environment is really important and the protocols that we use their change a bit so traditional tools don't necessarily fit well. So what's the general solution to >> solving that problem? And then I want to understand the Net Scouts secret sauce. But let's stop. Let's start of high level. How does the industry solved that problem? So the industry >> has been trying to solve that problem mostly by looking at the goodwill of third parties, looking at things like net blower, log events and aggregating that normalizing it. You've had solution sets that looked at network traffic, but it becomes very difficult for a lot of folks to make use of that network traffic, and what we've done is really provide the ability to look into that network. Traffic and gain gather from really anywhere it's deployed whether it's public loud, private cloud, our solution said, That's our secret sauce. Our solution. Second go anyway. >> So so add some color to that in terms of your able to inspect deeper through what just magic software you got. You got a pro you send in so >> well. Actually, we have a device. It's called a SNG, and in the virtual world we use something that we call be stream. In the physical world, we have some that we call in Finnish Stream N. G. And that leverage is a technology that we've developed, called Sai, which is adaptive service intelligence and well, also do is watch all that traffic and build meta data in real time so we can surface key indicators of performance and security events. Get that information up into a collection mechanism that doesn't have to normalize that data. It just looks at it as is way. Build it into a service Contact services context laws uses to see across a multi cloud environment in a single pane of glass. Okay, so one of >> the biggest challenges for customers is that they're changing these environment. It's what happens. Their applications, you know, applications used to be rather self contained. Even the bm They might have moved some, but now we're talking about, you know, micro services, architecture, multi cloud environment. There's there's a lot going on there, you know? What's the impact on that for your world, >> Right? That's been exactly it. Weigh three tier application was kind of pretty straight forward, even though at the point we started introducing, we thought that was a really tough stuff. Now what we're doing, as you say, it's doing micro services architectures, and I might take my presentation layer and put out in the cloud and the public cloud in particular. So I'm closer to the UN user and delivering better high performance capabilities to them lower lately, Auntie and the like and I take my application server and I split that up all over the place, and I might put some in public. Claude. I might put some in private club. I maintain some of it in the legacy. So all that interconnection, all that independency is really, really hard to get your hands around and that complexity. We looked at the street study that said 94% of the 600 respondents said that the the networks are as complex or more complex than they have been two years ago. >> Yeah, that's not surprising, unfortunately to hear that, but you know, when we talk to customers out there, it used to be, you know, the network is something You set it up. You turned all your knobs and then don't breathe on this thing because I've got a just where I want today. It can't be like that. You know, I I we know that it's very dynamic has changed. The message from Cisco has been We need to simplify things and, you know, obviously everybody wants that. But how do you make sure you ensure that application, performance and security, without having the poor admit, have to constantly, you know, be getting tickets in dealing with things >> I think are Solution really provides a common framework for visibility, and that's really what I think is really important. When you're starting to infer based upon different data sets, it becomes very difficult to put your finger on the problem and identified. That's really a problem. And it's trying to blend the organization. Let's sit this concept of the versatile list and trying to make sure that people are more capable in addressing problems in kind of a multi dimensional role that they have now in particular network and security. The organizations, they're trying to come together, God, they rely on different data sense, and that's where it kind of falls apart. If you have a common day to say, you're going to have a better perspective, Okay, >> I was just a front from that application standpoint. How much of this is just giving notification to invisibility? Intuit vs, you know? Is it giving recommendations or even taking actions along those lines? >> Yeah, I think it has. It has to give you recommendations and has to give you pinpoints. You really? You've got to be able to say there here's a problem. This is what you need to do to fix it right? I think what often when I'm talking to folks, I say it's about getting the right information to the right person at the right time to do the right thing If you're able to do that, you're going to be much more effective. Yes. OK, so you've got this early warning system, essentially, hopefully not a tulip. But that's what practitioners want. Tell me something. Tell me. Give me a a gap and tell me the action to take before something goes wrong. Ideally. And so you could do that. You could give them visibility on it, Kind of pinpoint it. And do you see the day, Russ, where you can use machine intelligence toe as Stuart suggesting start to maybe suggest remedial action or even take remedial action? Oh, absolutely. I mean, there are some things that you can really do and do quite well. Walking for security events, for example, is the primary one. We've always had the ideas in place in the early days, a lot of folks who are cautious because they wanted to have a negative impact on the business. But when we take a look at ex filtration and blocking outbound connections, if you know the bad actors and you know the bad addresses, you can stop that before it gets out of your network. So people aren't gonna have that X illustration of your information. >> All right. So, Russ, you've been meeting with a bunch of customers here at the show, What's top of mind for them And if some of the conversation I've been having this week, you know, security, you know, has been climbing that that list for many years now. But in your world, what are some of the top issues? >> Yeah, security, definitely. There's no question. I think it's one of those environments where you can almost never have enough. There is always hungry more and more and better and more accurate solutions. I I think I saw something recently. There was a top 125 security solutions that's like top 120 times really way. Doyle The Town 25 Exactly. And I think I D. C's taxonomy has 73 sub categories to the security. So security is, you know, more than a $500 word. You know, it might be a $5,000 word. It's crazy and same with club, right, because it's not like, you know, in fact, I was talking to someone recently, and it's with the club village Go. It's not a club village. A more This is everything we're doing is the cloud. So it's change in mindset. So it's It's interesting as a cloud universe. So what's next for Net Scout, you know, give us a little road map? What Khun observers expect coming from you guys more significant, pushing the security in particular. One of things we see is that our data set really has the ability to be leverage for both security and performance work. Load sport floats were integrating the products that we bought with the Harbour acquisition we bought over networks. And they have a highly curated threat intelligence feed that we're going to bring in and add to our infinite streams and have the ability to detect problems deep inside the network. You know, it's one of these things the bad actors kind of live off the land. They get in there and they know their way around slowly and methodically and drought dribble information. No. Well, the only way to catch that is like continually monitoring the network. So having that perspective so continuing to grow that out and provide again more of that, eh? I aml approach to understanding and be more predictive when we see things and be able to surf. It's that type of information. Security already used to be activists. And now it's become, you know, high crime even. Yeah, even, you know, nation states, right. And the job of ah of a security technology company is to raise the cost, lower the value right to the hacker, right to the infiltrator so that they go somewhere else. All right. Hey, make it really expensive for them. So either get through. But we ve what's like you get through, make it really hard for them to take stuff out. And that's really what you're doing. >> It was like you made sure to lock the front door now because it stopped them. But, you know, maybe I'll go somewhere else, right? It's a little bit >> different. Preventing you wanna minimize your risk, right? So if you're able to minimize the risk from performance and security problems, it's really all about understanding what you've got, what your assets are protecting them. And then when that someone's trying to look at them stopping it from happening, >> OK, last question I have for you, Russ, is being in this Cisco ecosystem out there. We're watching Cisco go through a transformation become more and more software company now, four years into the Chuckle Robin's era. So you know, how's that going in? What's it mean to partner Francisco today? >> It's going really well, and I think that we adopted a lot of way or adopted a lot of what the Sisko has done as well and really transform Nets go from what was primarily a hardware first company into a software first company. You know, it's kind of I was in a conference once and we were talking about software eating the world, right and but ultimately, its hardware. That's doing the chewing right. So I think it's one of those balancing acts. You know, it's Cisco's still of selling a ton of hardware, but it's a software solution sets so they deploy on their hardware. That makes it happen. And it's similar for us. You know, we're building out software solutions that really address the issues that people have building all these complex environments. All right, >> Russ Curie, congratulations on all the progress there and look forward to keeping up with how Netscape's moving forward in this multi cloud world. Thank you. All right, we'll be back with lots more coverage here from Cisco Live, San Diego for David Dante Obst Amendment. Lisa Martin's also here. Thanks, as always, for watching the Cube.

>> From Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Open Systems. The future is crystal clear with security in SD-WAN. Brought to you by Open Systems. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas everybody, my name is Dave Valanti and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. We are covering the Open Systems networking event. They're here as part of the two Gartner events here this week. On the heels of AWS Reinvent, a lot of action going on in Las Vegas. Steve Garson is here, he's the president and founder of SD-WAN experts consultancy in this space. Steve, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Glad to be here. >> So tell us a little bit more about your background. >> Okay. I've been in the networking space since about 2007. Initially, my company was called MPLS Experts, when companies were migrating to MPLS and not understanding, well, what carriers should I use. I helped companies re-engineer their WAN back then. As that developed, the WAN optimization came into the scene and I helped companies evaluate the right WAN optimization solution. Then I had the foresight to see the potential of SD-WAN. I pivoted the business, called it SD-WAN Experts and started writing for network world and blogging on my own sites and with a number of other websites. I've been helping enterprises worldwide re-engineer their network, make a WAN transformation that's secure and supports easy management and save a lot of money. >> So, awesome. So you have a practitioners background, right? >> Exactly. >> That's fair to say. So you know your stuff, let's get into it. So let's talk trends, I mean. At a high level we always talk at theCUBE about the cloud and how that's affecting network traffic. Going from North South to East West has a major impact on security and performance. What are the big trends in the market space that you see, that are relevant? >> Well, we see consolidation obviously. (coughs) Obviously moving to the cloud is a big driver. The WAN has been designed for a data center with an MPLS network. That's a hub and spoke architecture that really doesn't make sense anymore. Companies are moving to Office 365, they're using Salesforce.com, they're using all kinds of softwares and service. That just doesn't work with a data center. So what companies have traditionally done is they have regional secure gateways and they're sending the traffic from an office to a secure gateway and now they're going through the internet. It just is convoluted, the traffic is tromboned and the latency is higher than it has to be. They're spending more money for these expensive circuits that, ultimately, they're going to the internet anyways. >> So, there's a lot of technical debt out there. How does a company go from point A to point B without spending a zillion dollars or bringing in, you know, a huge SI to re-architect everything. Is there a path that you can advise customers, or is it just every situation is a snowflake? >> You could probably define a half-dozen different basic situations that are snowflakes. Essentially you're moving to, you know, if you have an MPLS network companies typically will need more bandwidth and instead of getting more MPLS bandwidth they'll add internet connectivity. Using SD-WAN they'll root traffic over the internet that's supposed to go to the internet. The things that are still required on their MPLS network will stay in play. When those MPLS contracts expire, then there's a question of, do I need MPLS? That's a complicated question to answer. I will not say that you can eliminate MPLS, I'll always say it depends. It depends on the latency between paths on your network. I presented a paper at O-NUG a few weeks ago in New York, in which I analyzed with a lot of empirical data. Latency, packet-loss, and standard deviation of that latency between paths like from Tokyo to New York. You might a have 200 millisecond latency. But your standard deviation over the internet might be 200 milliseconds. So that means, potentially, if you're using only the internet, you might have 400 milliseconds latency. Can your application work appropriately? >> If you need 200 guaranteed, you've got a problem. Right? >> Right, exactly. In a situation like that, you might want to use MPLS or there's a new category of connectivity called SDCore which is an MPLS network in the Cloud that you access through an IPSec VPN to pops that are typically within 20 milliseconds. So you get that stability, but you cut the cost dramatically. >> Now the Edge just confuses us even further, right? IOT, The Edge, I mean certainly a trend everybody's talking about. From your standpoint, how real is it? Is it here today? Is it coming? What is the effect going to be on all these trends? >> You mean, the Edge? >> Yeah, the Edge, IOT. >> I mean it's a complicated thing. I mean the Edge. >> The industrial internet. >> Yeah, I mean, when people talk about the Edge today the Edge used to be their router and SD-WAN devices are supplanting the router. Gartner has indicated that by 2023 nobody is going to be buying routers. Everybody is going to be using an SD-WAN device which will route. >> Amazon, we were at Reinvent last week, they might even look at the data center as the Edge. But, I digress. Let's talk about the horses on the track. Lay out the competitive environment right now. We're here at the Open Systems event. Where do they fit in the market landscape? >> Open Systems is a very unique company where people will say, who's Open Systems competitor. They really don't have a competitor because they're unique. Open Systems is a company that has a secure SD-WAN which means there's a full security stack with SD-WAN. So you have the benefits of SD-WAN, but instead of having to deal with all these different security applications like HASBY, Data-loss Prevention, and IPSIDS, authentication, VPN integration with active directory. They do all of that and it's all managed. It's a very unique offering. >> So the competition is Do-It-Yourself, right? >> The competition is Do-It-Yourself or use a managed service provider who probably doesn't have all the pieces that work together. Open Systems has been doing this for 25 years. They have developed what the customers want. I went to one of their global customer meetings. They called a cap meeting last year. Each year they get input from the customers as far as what kind of enhancements they want to see. They actually take that input and the following year the customers, I was amazed, the customers just are thrilled that the company listens and the company implements what they ask. >> Again, I've mentioned there's a couple of Gartner shows going on this week. Sounds like Open Systems wouldn't really fit cleanly into a magic quadrant. >> They don't. They don't because they're not an Edge device. They're a complete Edge security solution that's managed. >> We talked about this at theCUBE, John Ferrs has brought up several times that the magic quadrants will have to evolve as these managed services, the Cloud certainly affects that. As more and more things get co-opted by the services, you know, economy. But, your thoughts on magic quadrants, how customers are using them. My understanding is, today, you heard a talk from a Gartner analyst that was helping people understand the do's and don'ts of a magic quadrant. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, well what Gartner was talking about today is how many people use the magic quadrant inappropriately. They think this tells us which companies we should look at and really what it's telling you is how that customer's strategy fits in with the market place. But you really have to look at what your requirements are. You can't just say, okay I'm going to look at quote the top three SD-WAN vendors. What are your requirements? That's what my firm does as a consultant is we help companies figure out what their requirements are to find out what's the right solution. A story I love to tell is a company that spent a year evaluating SD-WANs. They were about to make a decision and the CIO basically told the committee after a year of evaluations hey before we sign a contract, let's get an independent sanity check that we've made the right decision. I met with the company, spent a couple weeks assessing their requirements, and I know all of the major technologies and I knew that what they had selected wasn't correct. But you can't tell a client that they've made a mistake. So we set up a meeting with the vendor, which was a carrier, and their technology provider and the committee and I asked the hard questions that the vendor couldn't answer. Which made it really clear to the client that this is the wrong solution. They went a completely different direction. >> Saved them a lot of money. I love those stories. What's your website? >> SD-WAN-experts.com >> Alright, Steve thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Sharing your knowledge. >> Thank you. >> Awesome stuff. Really appreciate it. >> Pleasure. >> Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back from Las Vegas Cosmo hotel. Open Systems networking event. You're watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to theCUBE live coverage of ServiceNow. We are here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Dave Schneider. He is the Chief Revenue Officer of ServiceNow. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Oh, it's my pleasure. >> You're a CUBE veteran, so- >> It's good to be back. >> Not your first rodeo. No, it's really fun to be with you. >> So, I want to talk with you a little bit about the growth of the company, which has been really astonishing. Why has it grown so stupendously? What makes ServiceNow so special in your mind? >> I think the key to any great company is having really strong focus on the client, and the whole notion that the client's at the center of our universe. We build technology and service the people, and we act as one in service of our customers, because we know that in turn, our customers are serving their employees, their partners, and their ecosystems. So, just having that unified view as our true north is really empowered the growth. Great technology helps. Being in the Cloud really helps, but then also linking it back to who we are as an organization, what our purpose is, and what we're all about as a culture and a team. >> So, John Donahoe said, "Customer success is an important priority for us." So, I wonder, how do you define customer success? What are the metrics that you use to measure? >> There are a couple, and I think there's various phases of this. For one, are customers getting the value that they were hoping to achieve from the project, and more importantly, are they establishing that value clearly and in the front of that project, in the first place? Because some people just want to buy new technology for technology's sake, but that's not good enough. They need to really have a business value in mind, and we should be helping them to think about that, and then measuring that along the journey. Because if we achieve it, then they have more ammunition to go fight the next battle, the new automation to solve another problem. >> So, having said that, every customer's different. I mean, I'm sure there are patterns. So, how do you guys discern what matters to the customer? Do you have a process to do that? What is that process? And how much is the go-to-market team involved in that through the life cycle? >> It starts in the selling motion, it starts in the pre-sales motion, trying to understand the priorities of the executive team and the issues that are facing the customer. As we understand that, we're doing what they call a value assessment, and we share that back and forth with the client to make sure that we're onto the important issues that need to be solved. And then as the deal is structured and happening, and then they are going live, either with our PS people or our partners, which are such an incredible resource to our clients. We're then measuring the outcomes. Now, the measuring the outcomes part is a newer part of our motion, and you can see in our Customer Success Center, which was new as well, a value calculator, so customers are actually able to understand what the potential value is for a product with ServiceNow on different aspects of their business. >> I want to actually talk to you a little bit more about the Customer Success Center. It is new, newly launched. What was the impetus for launching it and then how is it being used? >> One of the things our customers had asked us for over the years is give us best practice. Be more prescriptive. You heard John talk about that on stage today. Tell us what other great customers, how do you recommend that we implement ServiceNow along the following domains? So, what we did is we picked 10 to 15 of the highest kind of gain items and focused on those first, being as prescriptive as possible. What's coming next is these little micro-focused burst ideas, so little things around what's good form design or other ideas great customers have done. But we'll be continuously publishing to that Customer Success Center, and then our community is now answering over 5,000 questions a week on what best practice is. >> They're crowd-sourcing these ideas. >> They are. >> Wow. >> And that's one of the secrets to this event to ServiceNow as a community is that the customers are helping other customers on their journey. >> Dave, organizationally, Customer Success management, professional services, training, and a partner ecosystem are all under sales. Talk about that a little bit. What precipitated that and how is that going? >> So, I actually reverse it. Customer Success is the overarching goal of the company. We happen to put sales, pre-sales, PS, Customer Success team, the technical training advisory piece, all within this group, knowing that it's about the journey. So, we didn't want to just focus on the selling motion. We want it to be inclusive of all aspects of what we think a great customer is going to expect of ServiceNow. So that's how we structure it. >> And how's that going? >> I think it's going pretty well. We're learning some motions on this, but I think the customers who are in that high-touch pilot that we have going on right now are experiencing some really good results from additional resources we're putting on it. They're appreciative of the fact that we have been very prescriptive in certain areas, and then we're organizing ourselves to be more unified to the client. I will say on the training and development front, the investments we're making around curriculum-designed, the mechanisms of getting that material out there, the better and more complete training that we have for our partner community is also yielding really great results. >> Frank Sleuben used to talk about IT are our peeps. >> They are. >> But still, the majority of your business from IT, much, much larger proportion outside of IT, but still a core chunk of the business's IT. You guys talk about digital transformation. My question is who's leading the digital transformation within your customer base? >> It's interesting, a lot of times we do have a group of IT professionals that are leaning in and leading the digital transformation, but they're usually partnered with someone else on the line of business, somebody who's got a goal, a desire to changes something, they're leaning in with that. One of the best examples is the Human Resources element around, they're being asked to change the digital experience for employees, to make the place a better place to work, more inclusive and belonging place to work. And they're using technology to help bridge that gap and get efficiency, so HR's been a real strong suit, and then we're seeing customer service re-imagining how they're going to reach out to customers with a service discipline. So this isn't just inside the company, but it's about how service disciplines can help with customer-partner relationships as well. >> Such a huge part of digital is getting digital right, whatever that means, and a lot of that involves, obviously, strategy at the board level, the C-Suite. When we first started doing this show, you didn't see a Deloy, E&Y, etc, certainly not as prominent as they are now. Those companies get heavily involved in that kind of digital transformation work. Where do you guys fit, how do you guys partner at that strategy level, and then where does ServiceNow come in as a platform? >> It's a great question, and I do think that what's happening here is that our customers, some of the early customers, really were just looking for new technologies to replace legacy technologies. The best of the best were taking that opportunity of transforming processes, either on their own or with partner communities, some of which are now here as larger sponsors and partners of ServiceNow. And now what we're seeing is this next generation of customer and/or our legacy customers, people who've been on the platform for a while, are recognizing that to get true value they've got to think about process. So, the bigger the SI, the ones who have process experience are going in with those customers really thinking about the art of the possible. You've heard Extensor talk about a human centric design, the human first with the heart centric design, making sure they're focused on the people and the process, rather than just the technology, and we're seeing that time and time again. >> I want to talk a little bit about not just the digital transformation, but the cultural transformation, and that has been a real talking point here at the conference so far. I want to hear how you, as the Chief Revenue Officer, are thinking about culture, the culture of ServiceNow, and making sure that culture is really pushed down throughout the organization. How do you do it? What are your best practices as a manager? >> Every day you have an opportunity to lead from the front and model the behaviors that you're expecting others to have, and I think one of the things that we're really proud of at ServiceNow is that we not just say that we're customer-focused, but we have evidence of really spending our time as an executive team, focused on the issues and directly with customers, making sure they're being heard and listened to actively. The other thing, inside the company, we have a tendency to describe ourselves as hungry and humble, that we want to keep achieving and keep pushing ourselves to the art of the possible, but we don't have a big ego about it, and I think when you see companies that are truly listening, the ego is pushed down and they're really focused on the outcome of the customer. And then that makes us feel good, and that's what's driving us forward. There are way too many companies with big egos that forget about the customer, and I think that's the beginning of the end for them. >> The fiefdoms, the egos, the the outdated policies and procedures, how do you kind of get rid of those, not just at ServiceNow, but at your customers that you're working with so closely? This is, again, we're practicing what we call the East-West motion at ServiceNow, between the leadership team, so myself and CJ Desai, or Mike Scarpelli, we have problems we're facing every day as we've grown the business. I've been with the company now almost seven plus years. The processes we had a year ago aren't sufficient to meet the needs of where we need to go tomorrow. So we have constant conversations at our levels about where we can use automation, where we can change process, or where we can use our own technology. As we do that, we're practicing that good East-West motion as executive team, and that's being modeled down beneath us in our people. The other thing I'll say is we often find ourselves listening like we're wrong, and I think that's important as a good leader or a good business person is that if you spend the time to understand the other person's perspective as an active listener, and understand their view, don't be so fixated that you're right all the time, and that allows us to really come together and solve tough problems. >> One of the key measures of success is renewal rates, and you guys are off the charts. I oftentimes get into Twitter debates. We were talking about Twitter and LinkedIn before, trying to help people understand the Mike Scarpelli math of how you count renewal rates, it's a dollar-based renewal rate, which is the only way to count for growing SaaS company, folk. You can't count units, do the math, it doesn't work. Check out the 10K and you can get the exact math, but astoundingly high renewal rates, increasing average contract values, to those numbers, it plays out in the financials. I know that's an outcome of the work that you're doing, but it underscores the success that you're having. >> When you start off and deliver great technology to solve a problem, and then you've got passionate customers, the things we have historically and continued replacing aren't things that change very often inside the enterprise, so it's very important to get it right on the way in, and then as you do that, customers do start to think of you as a 10 to 20-year relationship. And we should trust and treat each other as a 10 to 20-year relationship versus a transactional relationship. I think you're seeing that in our renewal rates, you're seeing that in our growth, you're seeing that in the traction of this event, and then that's really what's driving us forward. But as a sales professional, someone who has to go out there working with customers, the worst thing for a sales person is to have a non-renewal, because it's not just the loss of dollars, it's the loss of reputation. We take that really seriously as an organization. >> Well, Dave, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. It's always a pleasure to have you here. >> Thank you for having me. It's great to see you guys. >> Great to see you, Dave. >> All right, bye-bye. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have more from ServiceNow just after this. (techy music)